NY 187: Pariah's Mafia [/FIN]

[Keyser Söze]

"Do not go gentle into that good night;

Old age should burn and rave at close of day.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

I am delighted to have been selected to take part in this ground-breaking study at the BIO-DOME.
I firmly believe mankind was born on Earth, but it was never meant to die here.
This world is a treasure, but it's been telling us to leave for quite a while now.
This is my confirmation that I am ready to begin our experiments and push my physical, spiritual, sexual and mental strength to the max.

- This is Keyser Söze, successful applicant #20, signing off.

[Keyser Söze]

Confirmations

1 Bellaphant
2 Annadog40
3 BlueBloodedToffee
4 duppin
5 Garmr
6 Aeronaut
7 Shazam
8 Keyser Söze
9 mykonian
10 Kitty Galore
11 TheCow
12 dragonspawn
13 davesaz

Pending Confirmations

RadiantCowbells
Boonskiies
Sword Master
SilverWrath
Kop
FA_Q2
Prolapsed Brain
Klingoncelt

Once 15 of the 21 players have confirmed the experiments will begin.

[Keyser Söze]

On March 3, 1996 the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) established an elite school for the top one percent of its scientists. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of aeronautics and to insure that the handful of men and women who graduated were the best astronauts in the world. They succeeded. Today, NASA calls it BIO-DOME School. The scientists call it: TOP GOON...

/third

/confirm

/scum

/I mean town

How the hell did you pass the Space Age Aptitude Test?

[Keyser Söze]

Observation #1

A defensive over-reaction for an RVS vote:

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

A defensive over-reaction for his earlier defensive over-reaction:

Rc not sharing information is not alignment indicative. It's commonplace.

I'm still perplexed at how I am overreacting to anything by asking questions, making notes, and pointing out sword masters omgus vote and the odd choice of voting for me because I pointed it out.

Isn't the point of this game to get out of rvs, ask questions, make arguments and make notes of odd things? If making notes of odd behavior is defensiveness and scummy then isn't your making a note of my "strange" behavior scummy as well?

What exactly is the appropriate reaction to three random votes? One being an omgus, and two for no given reason whatsoever? Was I supposed to ignore it? Was I supposed to not note it? Was I not supposed to ask what is scummy about pointing out an omgus vote? Kind of important to get into the mind of people isn't it? Especially when there doesn't seem to be anything random about the supposedly random votes.

Am I not supposed to point out inconsistent reasoning? At what point do I get too defensive? And is defensiveness even really scummy?

Im not liking bella's hedging in that post. Trying to look like she agrees with the wagon without going for it all the way. Serious vote time:

VOTE: bella

I do have to say I do like the fact that my vote for sword got us out of the rvs though I never suspected it would.

Analysis

In my eyes, dragonspawn should have just put his hands up straight away and admitted that post #39 was a defensive over-reaction. He has dug himself into a hole in his own wagon.

Conclusion

If dragonspawn is town: he has a misunderstanding of RVS.
If dragonspawn is scum: this is a case of 'LAMIST': he is presuming seriousness instead of thinking about tone / context of the post.

[Keyser Söze]

Observation #2

Here is BlueBloodedToffee's body of posts:

(I will highlight in red any parts which are actual analysis, which does not focus on wagons)

VOTE: Dragonspawn

Bella, did you miss the Dragon wagon we have forming?

PEdit - PB, did you miss the dragon wagon we have forming?

Boon, join the Dragon wagon.

I know you want to.

Boon, stop.

Dragon looks like a really good wagon. RVS wagons are good, stop slowing it down.

I am not the instigator.

Why is it bad?

You got that right.

Man, I love the smell of RVS wagons at 11:56pm.

I gave a reason?

I gave a reason?

I don't get it?

Fine whatever.

VOTE: dragon

Why did you change your mind?

VOTE: BBT because why not.

Because we have a wagon?

You not giving a reason is why Aeronaut is iffy about you joining the wagon, when it's apparently a serious vote? I think.

Ah, I see.

Since when is it scummy to join a wagon whilst giving no reasoning and then push that wagon?

Wagons are good for information and it's a great way to start any game.

No problem!

Now, can we proceed with the Dragon wagon?

Because you initially took the position of going against the wagon and without much insistence you then joined it.

That's scummy

.

I am.

I might lynch you. Haven't decided yet; you haven't made a great start though.

You gonna even attempt to explain your reversal?

Analysis

There is a disparity between the number of his posts forcing the wagon and the number of posts of BlueBloodedToffee actually analysing the wagon.

Conclusion

If BlueBloodedToffee is town: he is full of conviction in his scum-read of dragonspawn, and his faith in wagons, but overlooking actual analysis of the wagon.
If BlueBloodedToffee is scum: opportunistic wagon driving, trying to portray a pro-town cause.

[Keyser Söze]

A pre-flip associative read:

If dragon spawn flips scum this game it wouldn't surprise me if boon flips scum

Can you explain this please.

[Keyser Söze]

A break-down of Dragonspawn's wagon (7 votes)

Sword master

Anyone who is called spawn is evil!

(RVS)

Garmr

Defensive reaction to fun rvs action noted think I may be keeping my vote here for a while.

(Scum-reading Dragonspawn)

BlueBloodedToffee

Wagons are good for information and it's a great way to start any game.

(RVS)

Aeronaut

A few votes into an RVS wagon and he's already guarded in this post.

(Scum-reading Dragonspawn)

Prolapsed Brain

Why not?

(To be confirmed?)

Annadog40

I thought about it and I shall make that wagon on that good old dragonspawn a little bigger

(RVS?)

Shazam

I think this is a response to post 90. If I'm right, you're reading it wrong and I'm not sure what to make of that.

(Scum-reading Dragonspawn)


Could Prolapsed Brain and Annadog40 please confirm why they have voted for Dragonspawn.

[Keyser Söze]

Comments made about the wagon

....
Really. You all going to pile on an RVS!

What makes you think it's a bad idea?

I'm ignoring it. It's bad and you should feel bad for instigating.

Although BBT's reason for joining is iffy.

Eh, I won't fight the lynch, but

I'm not going to join it unless he's L-1

.

I mean,

why are you pushing the wagon

? I'm curious, because I don't quite understand that.

Wow, much posting, many votes. Not joining the Ds wagon yet, although thier overreaction to an rvs wagon is strange

.

FINGER OF SUSPICION

[Keyser Söze]

Conclusion

If BlueBloodedToffee is town:

he is full of conviction in his scum-read of dragonspawn

, and his faith in wagons, but overlooking actual analysis of the wagon.
If BlueBloodedToffee is scum: opportunistic wagon driving, trying to portray a pro-town cause.

Correction: I am unsure whether BlueBloodedToffee actually scum-reads Dragonspawn.

[Keyser Söze]

@Annadog40, can please confirm why they have voted for Dragonspawn.

[Keyser Söze]

Why would I admit it was a defensive over reaction to revs when I disagree that it was revs? Both garmr and bbt voted in reaction to my pointing out that swords move was omgus. That's not random at all. In fact,

none

of the votes have been random. Not even the first vote which was omgus.

Ok, let's look back at your post:

So he omgus and you vote for me?

And you guys don't offer any reasoning

. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

Did you honestly expect Garmr and BlueBloodedToffee to give deep meaningful reasons why they voted for you during RVS?
Did you honestly think that 'pointing out' that Sword Master's vote was 'OMGUS', was some deep meaningful scum-hunting analysis?

I am not convinced. You are reading things out of context.

Wagon on rhymes with dragonspawn

Wow

[Keyser Söze]

Where did I claim that pointing out omgus was some deep meaningful scum hunting analysis?

I didn't take the omgus very seriously

. In fact, pointing it out was me

joking

around with it. Sure it means the vote wasn't random but it wasn't until they reacted to that post that I saw anything interesting. Which is why I said I was noting it. Then came the "Holy heck you're so defensive!" Claims that still make no sense.

So I have to ask you this, why do you feel the need to construct straw men to attack? In fact, why are you attacking in the first place? Your pushing the wagon pretty hard for someone who isn't voting for it.

You're

pushing my wagon

at the same time as questioning those on the wagon not voting for any of us. Who exactly are you scum reading? Because right now it looks like you are trying to look like you are scum hunting without actually putting your money where your mouth isn

Exactly. Why can your post be joking/non-serious, but their posts not be joking/non-serious? Context.

I'm not pushing your wagon. I'm analysing. I'm actually trying to show you the context of how NON-SERIOUS the whole context of those votes were.

Your over-reaction and stubbornness are doing you no favour (regardless if you are town or scum aligned) you

deserve pressure

.

I will vote for my strongest scum-reads in due time.

[Keyser Söze]

But I am looking at the context that's my point. I joke around and they respond with serious votes. So I give them a serious response noting their behavior and I'm taking it too seriously? I understand the context fairly well.

There were two back to back serious responses to my jokingly pointing at omgus. And to this point there has been no real attempt to explain why they responded that way. And when I try to ask question and notice this, I'm told I'm being defensive. How was I supposed to respond? I asked that a while ago but no one has answered.

VOTE: keyser[\v]

I want to see a respond to who you think are scum whether you vote for them or not. If you haven't guessed I don't like my questions being dodged

You still do not understand the context:

Omgus

[RVS]

VOTE: Dragonspawn

[RVS]

VOTE: Dragonspawn

[RVS]

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

[Your defensive overreaction]

Defensive reaction to fun rvs action noted think I may be keeping my vote here for a while.

[Garmr's serious reason for voting, no longer RVS]


I will list my town/null/scum reads later (I am hoping for more activity).

[Keyser Söze]

There is nothing that seemed random about your vote. You reacted to something I said, that is by definition not random. And when I called you on it you claimed it wasn't serious but you'll stay with it anyway.

You can claim it was random all you want, but when you are voting in reaction to something I said, there is no reason i should presume that you are randomly voting. Nor is it at all unreasonable to provide a serious response to no random votes

Again, what was the proper reaction to non random votes?

Ok, let me play along with your theory that Garmr and BlueBloodedToffee's votes were not RVS...

1) Did Garmr and BlueBloodedToffee have serious non-RVS reasons for voting dragonspawn?

Brick answers: YES

2) Is Garmr and BlueBloodedToffee voting for dragonspawn alignment-indicative?

Brick answers: YES

[Keyser Söze]

How many tries will it take Dragon to use the right vote tags?

Spoiler:

@dragonspawn - how about I self-vote and spare you the humiliation of trying to vote for me the third time

Which person is that FOS on?

Eh, I won't fight the lynch, but

I'm not going to join it unless he's L-1

.

Unsure if serious...

I mean,

why are you pushing the wagon

? I'm curious, because I don't quite understand that.

BlueBloodedToffee is the wagon-pusher, that's his thing. Why shouldn't BlueBloodedToffee push it? I would like more analysis from BlueBloodedToffee though.

Wow, much posting, many votes. Not joining the Ds wagon yet, although thier overreaction to an rvs wagon is strange

.

IMO, feels like an active-lurker post. "Their" overreaction?

[Keyser Söze]

I'll help him out

That's actually quite impressive

[Keyser Söze]

Wow, much posting, many votes.

Not joining the Ds wagon yet, although thier overreaction to an rvs wagon is strange.

Currently more worried about Rc and her lack of sharing Info.

Any thoughts on the "much posting" and "many votes"?

[Keyser Söze]

Couple more votes on Dragon wagon are needed.

Oh, and Anna is town.

Based on the content of her posts, I have a

town-lean

on Annadog40's slot too.

Regarding dragonspawn's alignment - do you think a

scum-aligned

dragonspawn would have wanted to drop the whole RVS vote thing ASAP and remove himself from the main focus? His stubbornness and lack of understanding on context is doing him no favours (including his defensive/retaliation vote on me) - I think scum would have backed down or tried to appease town. At least his wagon has divided everybody's thoughts, but I personally do not want to put him at L-1. I think he needs to take a step back and re-evaluate D1's RVS and start scum-hunting. Admittedly, his stand on RVS is effecting my read on him.

Null, scum lean

.

Thoughts?

[Keyser Söze]

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

I think this is a response to post 90. If I'm right, you're reading it wrong and I'm not sure what to make of that.

VOTE: dragonspawn

You were the only person to take a different angle on voting on dragonspawn's wagon. This intrigues me:

VOTE: Shazam

[Keyser Söze]

Another example of seeing things as being more against him than they are. This kind of defensiveness is hard to read because it's at the very least anti-town.

Good point, I found that post very paranoid too - if he re-reads my posts he'll realise I wasn't trying to get him lynched, I was just analysing his 'logic'. The fact he voted for me too reeked of desperation too. All non-alignment indicative defensive behaviour though. I'd prefer to see him scum-hunting then being on the back-foot before I analyse him further.

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

I think this is a response to post 90. If I'm right, you're reading it wrong and I'm not sure what to make of that.

VOTE: dragonspawn

You were the only person to take a different angle on voting on dragonspawn's wagon. This intrigues me:

VOTE: Shazam

Ok, but if you vote every time something intrigues you, you'll be switching votes an awful lot.

I am selective with the timing of my votes.
I like your earlier point.
Do you still stand by your first reason for voting dragonspawn? Or has his defensive-reactions added to your scum-read of him?

I will keep my vote on you for now, as I have an unnerving worry about your quick reply to my vote. If you are town, I hope you understand.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, I think the issue you address with your latest image is just coincidence. It's not ike he's been lurking hardcore or anything. Choose your battles.

Yes, probably an innocent coincidence. But my vote can still encourage reactions...

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: bella

Thinking about it I like it better on Bella right now.

Do you see her post #107 as possible active lurking?
A kind of a narration of events but not pushing anyone/or committing to anything so as to not raise attention? Also laying the foundation to placing a vote on your wagon later?

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee transforms from possessed wagon-driver to busy scum-hunter.

I like it. Please continue.

[Keyser Söze]

You gonna even attempt to explain your reversal?

Nope.

Prolapsed Brain works on gut...

I've learnt that no matter how many times I ask him to explain his votes, he won't.

Thus, I do not find his actions scum-indicative. However, I neither currently town read him.

Null read

.

[Keyser Söze]

Bellaphant, you are correct, you were not 'active-lurking'. My real comment was that you made a short narration of events but did not follow up with your views. You have since talked directly at the people you suspect, so my original observation no longer stands.

[Keyser Söze]

Everyone took my navy seal copypasta so seriously, jesus.

No, I am not hated. No, I'm not claiming to be the best scumhunter on MS.

Nor have I got over 300 confirmed scum lynches.

It's just a joke. chill

If there are werewolves in the set-up we'll know where to look though won't we

[Keyser Söze]

I dislike soze's page 5 as well.

Can you please share your reasons for everyone.

[Keyser Söze]

Aww,

want to know your scumtell

? Ask when it happens, don't act all worried a couple pages later

Yes please, do share with us.

I want to know the strength/sincerity of your scum-reads.

[Keyser Söze]

bullshit. You just want something you can argue with. Others are interested in my sincerity, you aren't.

No - I don't like empty scum-reads/vote. I'd prefer to hear the logic/sincerity behind them. This will help me with my read on you.

[Keyser Söze]

curious how you don't give a shit about the similar read I have on duppin.

I already

understand

your duppin read/votes as I have read your supporting activity on his slot (from

pre-game

,

RVS

and through-out

D1

):

vote duppin

not even rvs, his post was scummy. Aeronaut (sorry babe) is also scummy. Hmm.

vote duppin

duppin or soze. Take your pick!

Conclusion: it is a non-serious/weak-read. Your ISO lacks content/analysis/reasons.


For my vote you simply wrote:

I dislike soze's page 5 as well.

vote soze

I need to see reasons/logic behind this scum-read and vote.

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: Shazam

[Keyser Söze]

I find the timing of your unvote curious. Care to explain why?

Certainly.

This was the reason why my original vote was on him (with my added thought-process in

blue

):

You were the only person to take a different angle on voting on dragonspawn's wagon. This intrigues me:

[I thought it was an opportunistic vote (with added reachy reason) on the Dragonspawn wagon]

VOTE: Shazam

I like your earlier point.
Do you still stand by your first reason for voting dragonspawn? Or has his defensive-reactions added to your scum-read of him?

I will keep my vote on you for now, as I have an unnerving worry about your quick reply to my vote. If you are town, I hope you understand.

[I thought his quick reply to my vote on him was very suspicious. I believe it is scummy behaviour to 'spring into life' when the focus/vote is on you]

I decided to keep my vote on Shazam, and look at his play.

Since then, I have liked Shazam's efforts in analysing people's reads/reasons (I now have a

null town-lean

read on him):

This is poor. If you expect anyone to agree with you about who to vote, talk about more than your feelings. If you don't expect anyone to agree with you, why are you doing it?

[Shazam, challenging Bellaphant on her own convictions and feelings]

I don't like the PB wagon because it looks like a lurker wagon, and I generally don't like D1 lurker wagons. Those are for later days when the full body of their lurker posting can give you some info.

[Publicly announcing his thoughts on Prolapsed Brain's current wagon.

Defence noted

.]

You explained yourself how it's a misrep. There's a difference between me saying a) "defensiveness is scummy" and b) "dragon's kind of defensiveness is scummy". I clearly said b), he asked why I said a). I said that was a misrep and explained why, then restated b) in different words. He replied by saying he didn't misrep me and that a) wasn't true (as if that was somehow a counterargument).

[Firm stand on his understanding of his 'alignment indicative defense' with Aeronaut]

@all
I understand that there are some things that you wish to keep to yourselves even as town in terms of reads. But I'm seeing too much of it going on. At the very least, if you have something like this, don't bother mentioning it, and don't use it as a reason for voting someone. Find a reason that you're willing to explain to us, so that we can see why you're reading people the way you are. In other words, once you get this tell that you won't explain, iso the guy and find something you're willing to talk about.

[An invitation for constructive scum-hunting behaviour. Playing the possible 'pro-town card' - but I like his attitude.]

This question is such a blatant misrep that I almost want to vote you. You chopped off the context, and even in that one sentence you quoted, there is the phrase "this kind" that you just threw out the window with your question. If you are asking why a kind of paranoid defensiveness that causes a player to misread posts and think they're more against him than they really are is anti-town...I think it's pretty obvious. It hurts the town when someone misinterprets what everyone else is saying and gets super defensive about it because it is a) deceptive b) illogical and c) often seen as scummy. In this case, I do see it as scummy, which means it's at least anti-town if he's actually town.

[A full explanation of his belief about 'paranoid defensiveness', challenging BlueBloodedToffee's different view of defensive play]

Yet another misinterpretation of a post because he can't see past people being against him.

@duppin - what is your current read on Shazam?

[Keyser Söze]

this game has too many dragon votes and

too few on soze/duppin

Tell us why you think duppin/Keyser Söze are scum-aligned.

Simple request.

[Keyser Söze]

But you're liking me for town?

<3

Are you happy with a very weak town-read from me?

I'm not liking much:
Aeronaut
Annadog40
Bellaphant
Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Keyser Söze
Kitty Galore
Kop
mykonian
Prolapsed Brain
SilverWrath
Sword Master

You may be onto something here Can you list the players you ARE liking much too, and finally a list of the players you are neither liking or not liking.

[Keyser Söze]

Thecow's page 13 is very townie. Not the individual posts, but the series.

I liked the TheCow's logical break-down of the dragonspawn wagon (post 85).

And later:

Dragon's wagon makes sense. A trade of RVS votes, a "omgus" statement, and two more votes are put on. This is all still RVS. Dragon says he'll take note of this, and the wagon-ers become serious, while others start making non-RVS votes on Dragon. This all makes sense and seems reasonable to me.

I liked TheCow questioning BlueBloodedToffee's motivations for pushing dragonspawn's wagon (post 72).

BBT, would you like something from me specifically? I would be happy to help with my thoughts on any matter of issues.

This is a very confident post - TheCow is unafraid to talk about any issues and is glad to be in focus.

I wouldn't lynch Dragon, personally, but if it were not for my disdain for early wagons, I would have likely jumped on the wagon as well at that point.

Open honesty of his thoughts on a dragonspawn wagon.

Prolapsed needs to post more. Do any players here have experience with them? They would be better of reading them.
In any case, kind of leaning scum at this point, just based on tone and content alone.

I agree that Prolapsed Brain needs to explain his reads/votes/unvotes more. I have previous game-experience with Prolapsed Brain - he works from gut so it is hard to get a read on him. Maybe pressure will force him to become more open with his thoughts.

TheCow

(14 posts)

Town-lean read

.



@mykonian - please can you explain your scum-read on me.

[Keyser Söze]

My comments in

red

.

You had trouble to get going this game.

(That is your opinion, I have been enjoying this game from the very beginning [not aligment-indicative])

. You didn't want to miss the boat and get called out as a lurker so early on you wanted good looking posts out to get off to a good start

(I have never been called a lurker, and I don't think I ever will be called a lurker. I would rather replace out then lurk [not aligment-indicative])

. There are two keys to this, first "good looking" and the second that it was forced by your gameplan, not naturally by other people's posting. So what we end up with are very early posts with lots of quotes and a stiff structure. So by page 5 we see a PBPA

(Do you think only a scum-aligned player is more likely to post in my style? [not aligment-indicative])

. That's straight up silly should you have been town. As scum however, it makes a lot of sense. The PBPA structure makes that getting a post out with seeming analysis is doable, it helps you post. And really, you'll always find something if you want to in those. PBPA's are fine. But not on page 5. On the same page we find a logical setup about a quote where the premise is very neatly detailed etc. The argumentation is similar. Sure you could do that as town, but more usually a town sees a post, quotes it, and points out what he's seeing. He doesn't need a setup at the time of what is the exit of the RVS

(Again you are saying my playstyle is less likely to be written by a town-aligned player [not aligment-indicative])

.

Later on you get into your groove more, as expected. The start of the game is awkward for scum, you don't know where everybody stands and first impressions do count. But once that's past, you know what people want and who they suspect, responding to them and asking questions about it gets much easier, and as such scum posting would be expected to feel more natural. It's easy to blend in when people already have an expectancy from you

(I was not trying to blend in, I am developing and challenging my reads continually [not aligment-indicative]).

Shame your early game gives you away

Suggestion: Re-read my posts.
Think: 'Is it possible for them to be posted from a town-aligned player?'

Conclusion: All your reasons I cannot challenge with logic, as it is the same reply for all of them: 'Why can't a town-aligned player have posted this?' There are no allegations to respond to, no miss-reads/miss-reps to support, no contradictions to address: only comments regarding my playstyle.

"Shame your early game gives you away"

- I will frame this Shame your myopic game let's your scum-hunting ability down.

[Keyser Söze]

this game has too many dragon votes and

too few on soze/duppin

Tell us why you think duppin/Keyser Söze are scum-aligned.

Simple request.

Can you now please explain your scum-read of

duppin

.

[Keyser Söze]

Here's my confusion: Shazam posted a reply that he was neither n00b nor alt;

myko follows on directly with a response that (I thought) was to Shazam, but it turns out that myko was replying to Keyser's question.

Can we please indicate to whom we are speaking when we reply? Thanks.

That's the problem with non-alignment-indicative play-style analysis, it can be applied to fit anyone

[Keyser Söze]

Thank you for the avatar.

[I realised my actions were anti-town. Sorry mate.]

[Keyser Söze]

It's not just the not explaining his vote.

He went against the Dragon wagon and then joined the wagon. He never explained his reasoning for joining the wagon; when questioning about joining the wagon he unvotes.

Other than this, he has done nothing noteworthy in the game.

That is more than enough reason to vote someone.

TRUE.
TRUE.
TRUE.
TRUE.

The curious thing is, Prolapsed Brain has been happy to be read like that [I do not believe he has made an effort to explain his actions or actively pushed/pressured any of his scum-reads (if he has any?)] Why is he not concerned with the 5 votes already on him?

Is this play anti-town?

Yes

.

Is this play scummy? No. I have both townies and scum play this way. I am not saying stop putting pressure on him - but those are my thoughts.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, do you think it would look scummy for PB to suddenly start doing ~things~ once people started to vote him?

That question makes me re-think my stance:

Pressure would

force

him to play to his win-con* and try to survive.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

*as both town or scum.

[Keyser Söze]

SilverWrath's only 2 posts so far:

/confirm damn I waited for like one month in the queue, hope this will be a good game

so being late for one day and a shitload of activity has happened.

What happens when an unstoppable palm meets an immovable face?



Where do you think Sword Master, Kop, SilverWrath and Kitty Galore are all hiding?



They obviously didn't get pisskop's memo:

"As part of any experiment to determine sustainability, stability must be measured".

@pisskop

- any update on prods / replacements?

Kitty Galore is eligible for a prod
Kop is V/LA until Saturday
Sword master is V/LA until the 4th of August
SilverWrath isn't due for another prod

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome Bulbazoor.

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

"Serious"? What "seems off"? I look forward to hearing your analysis.

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

I fear you were very quick to unvote me, and very quick to jump on the Prolapsed Brain wagon. My concern: instead of scum-hunting you are wagon-hunting.

I would love to hear Prolapsed Brain's thoughts on his own wagon.

[Keyser Söze]

@myko, who is the one townie?

Thecow's page 13 is very townie. Not the individual posts, but the series.

Klingoncelts list is indeed not very productive, which he knows. The issue is that he starts from a gut read and tries to condense that. Or in his words, he's mostly paranoid. He finds the easy things to dislike, the people who lurk, the people who post awkwardly, the people who got fingers pointed their way. Which is exactly the thing an average scum would try to avoid. That list includes the bad scum, so you are probably going to find a couple there, depending on what the mod randomly sent out. I'd be a bit sad though if klingon actually used that as his starting point, he's discarding the average scum to muck around in a hard to read pool of players. It's something to keep in mind, not a reads list.

SHE isn't as noob as you think, dear.

I know some of the players and how they think.

Interestingly, who are the 'hard scum', 'soft scum' and the 'average scum' mykonian is alluding to?

[Keyser Söze]

That would be L-1.

Can someone state intent to hammer please?

UNVOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Can we let him respond before putting him at L-1.

[Keyser Söze]

I fear a lurker could quick-hammer, then escape our wrath by pleading ignorance.

I understand why this wagon has formed, but I don't want a player joining the wagon without posting their reads/reasons (which we have already seen, as they would be guilty of the very thing we are suspicious of about Prolapsed Brain.)

[Keyser Söze]

Intent to post MC Hammer 'Hammer-Time' gif

[Keyser Söze]

'hard scum', 'soft scum' and the 'average scum' -

Edit: change to 'bad scum', 'hard to read', 'lurkers' and 'average scum'.

[Keyser Söze]

I told you we needed to wait for Prolapsed Brain's response.

We didn't even get a role-claim

[Keyser Söze]

If we don't have all the votes...

In a previous game, there was a scum power that allowed the hammer to happen before the expected votes.

There is also a town role that achieves the same effect too.

[Keyser Söze]

Let's see if PB flips hated townie...

[Keyser Söze]

@mod. Is this game bastard?

[Keyser Söze]

I cannot see how a Hated Townie would play like that and not defend himself. It is suicide.

It must be a scum PR who manufactured the early hammer - we must wait for the flip.

Was there a counter wagon?

[Keyser Söze]

Let's look at this:

Could be some ones a double voter

Dragon no point unvoting. It changes nothing.

You should rejoin wagon to make sure wagon is maintained in the case of Mod error.

@BlueBloodedToffee, you either knew about the scum PR which enabled the early hammer, or scum are setting you up for the miss-lynch. Your incessant push for Prolapsed Brain to be put near L-1 needs to be flagged.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: bulbVOTE:

Barely in the game and votes for the largest wagon without any pretense of catching up. May not be a smoking gun but it doesn't look good imho

Yes, in light of the early hammer, Bulbazoor's two contributions are very scummy.

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, I'm sure everyone forgot I was pushing that wagon Keyser; thanks for bringing that up. Very pro-town of you.

Did you honestly want him to roleclaim at L-1, or put him under pressure to explain his votes/unvotes?

[Keyser Söze]

This did catch my eye though. Why do you presume it is a scum PR? Couldn't it be a town double voter? One of the vote counts did have a <vote> inserted in the middle of the list.

I think a 'town double voter' would have unvoted - why risk the early hammer, without hearing Prolapsed Brain's roleclaim? It is fortunate he was only a citizen. My unvote was worthless in the end.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser

Sheeping Mykonian.

You have been very jumpy so far. I have full conviction in my reads, posts and votes so far.

[Keyser Söze]

You see? In 400 the vote should have been shown before FA, but it wasn't.

I think it's very likely this is a scum PR and is a hidden second vote.

Yes, I researched the role Garmr posted: Double Voter, it allows a hidden vote.

Thus, if it is a scum-aligned double voter, there are opportunistic scum on Prolapsed Brain's wagon, who obviously knew they needed to put him near L-1.

We can look at the reasons why they voted for Prolapsed Brain (included mine, who later unvoted).

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: duppin

Sheeping Mykonian.

VOTE: Keyser

Sheeping Mykonian.

I find it suspicious you are trying to push the

two scum-reads

of

Mykonian

. Because Mykonian flipped town, would you rather follow Mykonian's scum-reads than your own?

[Keyser Söze]

Also is it possible we have a mass murderer? If we did and Anna investigated one of the other two it might explain something. But I'm not sure it does.

And are we sure we only have one scum group?

Multiple NK's hints to the following:

- possible multiple scum factions
- possible night vig
- possible serial killer

We were only told they were "killed" - not stabbed/mauled/shot.

All

theory

right now.

[Keyser Söze]

You have been very jumpy so far. I have full conviction in my reads, posts and votes so far.

What is the point of the first comment? Do you think it's alignment indicative? If so, how?

I disagree with your second sentence.

You have so far made three votes - do you believe in any of them? Nervous/jumpy voting - yes, I see this as alignment-indicative.

Bulbazoor also demonstrated this jumpy/weak voting behaviour. I'm sticking with my vote on him.

[Keyser Söze]

Here are the votes on Prolapsed Brain's wagon:

Nope.

Cool.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I noticed PB did post after he got called out, but didn't respond to it.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

VOTE: Prolapsed BrainGiving in to pressure seems rather scummy.

PB's iso is not giving me any positive feelings, though. He's not sharing information, and with 12 posts I feel I should know -something- about his read on the game, and I don't.

VOTE: PB

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Sure, I could get behind this.

That question makes me re-think my stance:

Pressure would

force

him to play to his win-con* and try to survive.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I'm thinking pb needs some more pressure.

VOTE: pb

We need to get him talking and interacting.

<DOUBLE VOTE POSTED HERE>

Keyser, do you think it would look scummy for PB to suddenly start doing ~things~ once people started to vote him?

That question makes me re-think my stance:

Pressure would

force

him to play to his win-con* and try to survive.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

*as both town or scum.

This is true.

Lets see where this goes: VOTE: PB

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

That is more than 'pretty weak reasoning'.

Having said that; maybe if you join the PB wagon and we push him you will be able to develop a read?

Perhaps...

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I believe this puts him at L-2.

No, wait, I can go for Mykonin later.

Back to

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll give my full thoughts on the PB wagon later (as promised earlier: post 490).

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Vote clingy

Because I want to she feels very weird this game

her hands feel like murderer

.

Could you explain that read please - I meant to ask it D1, but pisskop closed the thread.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

Why?

Seriously if we are pressuring him to get activity why do we have to push him to L1 if he reacts before?

dragonspawn picked up on this quick - why was there an urgency to put Prolapsed Brain to L-1, it was a

lurker-wagon to encourage pressure

. How many actually scum-read Prolapsed Brain who was on the wagon?

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: Bulbazoor

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor, can you clarify why you town-read me?

[Keyser Söze]

Mind explaining your unvote?

I misinterpreted something he said in relation to town-reading me since N1 (I will now re-read his D2 posts).

[Keyser Söze]

Sword Master's two posts so far:

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

VOTE: Dragonspawn
Anyone who is called spawn is evil!
Confirm

V/LA

I think he should be replaced (we've had 4 town deaths so far, if Sword Master is a town-slot we need to hear their voice).

I do not understand these posts Bulbazoor:

Keyser dude.

They had to have seen it dude.

Who is "they", what is "it"?

Care to explain this "leaning scum" read on Aeronaut:

I am leaning scum on aeronaut.

IMO, Aeronaut has had the most pro-town mindset/posts throughout D1 (especially during the poor Prolapsed Brain wagon).

[Keyser Söze]

I'm now up-to-date.

Ok, I came into D2 thinking Bulbazoor was scummy and dragonspawn was town. I have read the subsequent posts about the dragonspawn trap/counter-wagon theory from D1. At the moment, I am not set on it, but the following exchange from D1 could be key:

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

Why?

Seriously if we are pressuring him to get activity why do we have to push him to L1 if he reacts before?

Coming into D2 I felt dragonspawn's comment was pro-town (as the Prolapsed Brain wagon was a lurker wagon, there was no reason to push him to L-1).
However, if you have the mindset that dragonspawn already knew about the double-voter scum PR, dragonspawn was highlighting Bulbazoor's vote (and reason), then to later pounce on it in D2.

It's a very reachy theory. I am not sold on it. My only possible 'scum-read' on dragonspawn was his D1 behaviour, which I read as

bad town

at the time:
post 111, post 132, post 135, post 138

Votes and reasons on dragonspawn's D1 wagon post 114
Comments on dragonspawn's D1 wagon post 117

dragonspawn's D2 wagon (5 votes so far):

Guys, if you think this extra vote is a scum PR, then surely you think it's too powerful to be unlimited uses. And if it has limited uses, why would they use it D1? The only good answer I can think of is that they wanted to make sure that one of their own did not get lynched.
VOTE: dragonspawn
This makes sense anyway. Given the pushing of the counterwagon to dragon's by so many people, it's likely scum joined in on that. BBT would be a strong possibility for a dragon partner, but I'm more confident in dragon being scum.

VOTE: Dragonspawn

I like this.

VOTE: dragon

VOTE: dragonspawn

ok rc

VOTE: Dragonspawn

I will put my vote here for now. I'd also like to ask you a question.
Do you believe any scum voted on you d1?

Could Radiant Cowbells, Bulbazoor, gamr and duppin repeat why they scum-read dragonspawn, thanks.

If anyone's obv-town it's Garmr.

Can you please explain this obv-town-read mate.

@pisskop

- any feedback from Kop?


While I clarify my position on Bulbazoor-dragonspawn...

Finger of suspicion: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasons:
- very quick to push mykonian's two scum-reads (duppin, Keyser Söze) coming into D2, without adding arguments of his own
- pushing Prolapsed Brain's wagon to L-1 (did he scum-read Prolapsed Brain? Did he want a roleclaim or defence from Prolapsed Brain, or did he just want PB at L-1?)
- I read his sarcastic/undermining/negative reactions to my posts not only anti-town, but scummy.
- BlueBloodedToffee's response to players putting focus on him is to scum-read them (Keyser Söze/Radiant Cowbells) very defensive play.
- no attempt to read my posts as coming from a townie, only scum 'trying hard to play the role of Helpful Townie'.

I want to make sure I am not mistaking BlueBloodedToffee's bad attitude on D2 as scum-aligned behaviour.

[Keyser Söze]

I was more focused on your D2 reasoning (has anything been added since your D1 reasons):

2.the reason that dragon wasn't pushed to l-1 was because he is scum.

Do you still stand-firm by that? You have also stated that BlueBloodedToffee is likely scum by way of association if dragonspawn flips scum.

I already noted your reason from D1 (I agree with this):

Defensive reaction to fun rvs action noted think I may be keeping my vote here for a while.

Another pre-flip associative read:

If dragon spawn flips scum this game it wouldn't surprise me if boon flips scum

Plus, I don't think you explained your earlier scum-read on Klingoncelt:

VOTE: Vote clingy

Because I want to she feels very weird this game her hands feel like murderer.

[Keyser Söze]

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1.

I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not

.

Let me answer that for you...

Looking at the chronogical order of the Prolapsed Brain wagon (post 511), we see the hidden double vote (which we will presume to be a scum PR) came between dragonspawn (post 391) and FA_Q2's vote (post 393).

pisskop announce's Bulbazoor entrance into the game:

Bulbazoor replaces Silverwrath

Bulbazoor votes for Prolapsed Brain:

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

Therefore we can categorically say,

Bulbazoor did not personally make the double vote

. However, whether he knew about the double voter scum PR role is another question.

[Keyser Söze]

@keyser soze


I didn't notice post 407 that's interesting. What do you think of it???

I'm wondering why dragonspawn never followed through with his question - if I was voting someone, I'd want to look at all the angles of their actions (incase my vote was misplaced).


What we do know is that the double-voter scum knew that his double vote was only best invested in a wagon that was well-supported by town (scum would have voted too to push it through (hence the twilight suspicion on Bulbazoor/Klingoncelt). Scum waited until Prolapsed Brain was at L-4 (after dragonspawn's vote), knowing that BlueBloodedToffee was going to drive the wagon all the way to L-1 (I still don't know if this makes BlueBloodedToffee scum, scum could have took advantage of his obsession with wagons).

[Keyser Söze]

If he is town, and believes scum voted on him, why would he not look at the players on his train? At least I get the impression he has not.
The reason for this is because if he looked at the trains he would've noticed the difference between the votes on him and PB.

So if he did check it, he chose not to share that information with the rest of us (that the train on him looks very bad). That sounds fairly suspicious.
If he did not check it, I do not understand why he would not when he believes scum voted on him.

That is true, I think I have looked at dragonspawn's wagons more than dragonspawn himself

Personally, I would be grilling

everyone

who voted me, to test the validity/sincerity of their reasons - maybe he doesn't want to take the focus off Bulbazoor right now. I can see what you mean about the Bulbazoor easy-lynch aspect - even I wanted Bulbazoor lynched coming into D2. Bulbazoor's desperate/emotional defence has surely made people town-read him.

[Keyser Söze]

All votes are inserted chronologically, discounting mod error. Please point out any discrepancies you may see

Therefore,

Bulbazoor is not the double-voter

. However, this does not fully clear him: his desire to put Prolapsed Brain at L-1 within 2 posts could mean a few things:

- he was aware of the double-voter PR and knew the L-1 vote was the hammer [scum indicative]
- he scum-read Prolapsed Brain (needs to provide reasons) [town/scum indicative]
- he wanted to apply more pressure on Prolapsed Brain (the reason Bulbazoor has already claimed:

"If I voted on him, it was to pressure him"

) [town indicative]
- he wanted Prolapsed Brain to roleclaim [scum indicative]

[Keyser Söze]

@Boonskiies and BlueBloodedToffee - you have mentioned before that your town/scum reads of eachother are usually very accurate.

What are your current reads of eachother?



Boonskiies - I am admittedly alarmed by your low-activity this game.

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome TheDominator37

[Keyser Söze]

Looking over myk's posts.

Seems like a very odd night kill unless scum read his vig comment to be vig crumb. Which would be dumb because I can't see why a vig would crumb at all. He was tunneling duppin and soze. Though I can't see much reasoning for them.

Do you find BlueBloodedToffee's choice to push/sheep mykonian's two scum-reasons at the start of D2 as scummy or innocent?

[Keyser Söze]

Key I think it's null

I wasn't sure on voting BlueBloodedToffee, I have a worry he may just be a townie having a bad game (and acting over-defensive towards people pointing a finger at his D1 behaviour) - scum could be taking advantage of his playstyle:

Finger of suspicion: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasons:
- very quick to push mykonian's two scum-reads (duppin, Keyser Söze) coming into D2, without adding arguments of his own

(non-alignment indicative, bad town)

- pushing Prolapsed Brain's wagon to L-1 (did he scum-read Prolapsed Brain? Did he want a roleclaim or defence from Prolapsed Brain, or did he just want PB at L-1?)

(non-alignment indicative, but bad-town)

- I read his sarcastic/undermining/negative reactions to my posts not only anti-town, but scummy.

(bad-town/scum-alignment indicative)

- BlueBloodedToffee's response to players putting focus on him is to scum-read them (Keyser Söze/Radiant Cowbells) very defensive play.

(non-alignment indicative)

- no attempt to read my posts as coming from a townie, only scum 'trying hard to play the role of Helpful Townie'

(non-alignment indicative: people usually say my playstyle is Mr. Try Hard)

I want to make sure I am not mistaking BlueBloodedToffee's bad attitude on D2 as scum-aligned behaviour.

I'm pretty confident bbt is mafia.

I can provide proof later

but it is midnight rn

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

From what I have seen, don't like his posts.

Need a full catch up, but he is what caught my eye reading through.

Did kop care to check the VC before making this vote...

If I came into the thread a week late, I would personally catch-up first, express my reads and reasons, then make a vote.

IMO, jumping straight into a thread with a vote is a cause for concern

[Keyser Söze]

Intent to lurk for 17 hours

[Keyser Söze]

Who am I kidding, 5 hours later, mafiascum pulls me back in.



New reads, thoughts and ramblings coming up...

[Keyser Söze]

[To Post #719 - I wrote this last night, but fell asleep]

D2 vote history

BlueBloodedToffee - duppin, Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze
dragonspawn - Bulbazoor,
Keyser Söze - Bulbazoor, <unvote>
davesaz - Kitty Galore
Garmr - BlueBloodedToffee, dragonspawn
FA_Q2 - BlueBloodedToffee
Shazam - dragonspawn
RadiantCowbells - dragonspawn
Bulbazoor - dragonspawn, Aeronaut
duppin - dragonspawn
Kop - BlueBloodedToffee

D2 is still young, but we need more input from Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut*, Kop, Kitty Galore*

(*has started to post now)

.
So far, D2 has seen a great focus on Bulbazoor, then dragonspawn and finally on BlueBloodedToffee. I would like the above players to share their thoughts on the respective "wagons".

First of all, a summary of reads/comments relating to

Bulbazoor

:
FA_Q2 to Bulbazoor: "I want you to add something to the game in general." FA_Q2 calls Bulbazoor's play: "not only scummy - it is massively so". FA_Q2 links Bulbazoor to BlueBloodedToffee: "I think you are his partner though".
duppin raises a question to Bulbazoor in relation to his accusation about Keyser Söze trying to frame him: "If you think he is town, why would he want to frame you?". duppin shares his view on Bulbazoor's reaction: "Bulbazoor's reaction feels genuine to me". duppin says his concern about Bulbazoor's wagon: "Not feeling his train at all to be honest. I am interested in the people on it though." At the time only dragonspawn was on the Bulbazoor wagon, Keyser Söze had unvoted.
Kitty Galore: "I am not sure Bulb is scum".
RadiantCowbells says "Bulba is clearly a scum led wagon". At that time dragonspawn and Keyser Söze were on the Bulbazoor wagon.

Summary of reads/comments relating to

dragonspawn

:
Bellaphant says dragonspawn "seems to be obv!town".
RadiantCowbells asks Gamr: "Garmr, help us lynch DS. There's huge associative tells between the two, and a scum flip from one would basically entail an instalynch on the other."
Garmr says "the reason that dragon wasn't pushed to l-1 was because he is scum".
Shazam says "I find dragon scummier", in relation to BlueBloodedToffee.
FA_Q2 disagree's with Shazam's logic about dragonspawn's wagon: "This line of reasoning does not really makes any sense".
Bulbazoor says "Dragon is saying stupid stuff" and "Dragon is acting too pushy from his town self".
duppin says "the reason I find Dragonspawn suspicious is mostly because of PB's flip".
TheDominator37 says "I greatly despise this dragon wagon".
Kitty Galore defends dragonspawn: "I just didn't think any of the things DS did were lynch worthy"
The Cow supports Bulbazoor's theory about dragonspawn trying to push Bulbazoor's lynch: "I see, interesting theory. Perhaps we should look into this. To help us find evidence, would you mind pulling up quotes from Dragonspawn to help prove this? It would really help you prove your innocence, and in the long run, maybe root out a few scum! That would be fantastic"

Summary of reads/comments relating to

BlueBloodedToffee

:
Bellaphant said BlueBloodedToffee is "scum pushing a narrative".
Gamr said "i'm all good for a bbt lynch".
Shazam said "I agree with the cases on BBT", "consider me a potential vote for BBT".
FA_Q2 says "BBT is the larger concern here - not only is he more scummy but he is also the stronger player".
dragonspawn says "I'm townreading bbt".
TheDominator37 says "I find BBT's first posts quite scummy. He is pushing for votes off of absolutely nothing", "I actually think that he is scum", "I'm pretty confident bbt is mafia" and that there are "no reasons to let him live today".

Other interesting reads/comments:

RadiantCowbells said "If anyone's obv-town it's Garmr", "I don't know if I can take a thing that Dom posts seriously."
Garmr said "fa_q2 your on my to lynch list after ds and bbt", "not sure if kitty is bad town or scum".
Bulbazoor town-reads Keyser Söze: "Your meta seems like the other game" and "I am leaning scum on aeronaut."
dragonspawn describes RadiantCowbell's behaviour: "seems scummy to me", "that's the problem with rc he plays a scummy game in my opinion. Even as a townie".
TheDominator37 says "I also have a strong town read on key". "I should keep an eye on gar. He is being quite random and not explaining any of his reads.". "My scum list Bbt Kop Garmr". "My read on aeronaut is scum lean". "FA is a strong town read for me".
Kop, explaining his vote for BlueBloodedToffee: "From what I have seen, don't like his posts."
BlueBloodedToffee said "Prodge".

[I will add

my

comments and reads on these statements later this afternoon. In large games, there is alot of information to process.]

[Keyser Söze]

Reading through Aeronaut's catch-up observations - I like them very much:

Aeronaut on Keyser Söze: "For the record, this post makes me pretty unconfortable. It sounds very "Look how pro-town I'm being!". AKA it looks like Key here is trying to pin the lynch on anyone but himself. And it seems almost rehearsed/fabricated." [Valid point - my playstyle is very much try-hard townie. I invest all my energies into scum-hunting, and make sure I post my feelings/thoughts on events - so that people have an optimum of information on me, incase I am killed.]

Aeronaut on the 3 night-kills: "One of these kills makes Garmr town." [I am hesitant to ask Aeronaut: how? who? what? and why?. But I feel it would be anti-town at this time. I needed/wanted to flag it however.]

Aeronaut on BlueBloodedToffee's sheeping in D2: "I'm really puzzled as to why you're so easily sheeping Mhykonian's scumreads for no other reason other than that he was town, and he died. Why not Anna? Why not Kling? There's zero chance you're so lost on reads at this point in the game that you have to resort to basing your vote off of the D1 reads of a dead VT." [I agree with this - this behaviour is very alarming. BlueBloodedToffee has been confident in pushing wagons (with no reasons) but has repeatedly found it difficult to present his own detailed scum-read cases, instead, resorting to pushing/sheeping scum-reads of dead townies -

I view this as scummy

. His behaviour has demonstrated an anti-town attitude.]

Aeronaut on davesaz's vote on Kitty Galore: "This is gross." [This is true, alot has happened D1/N1/D2, and to vote for Kitty Galore for lurking is lazy IMO. Why doesn't davesaz want to comment on the bigger wagons?]

Aeronaut on the double vote: "Yea, so Bulba joined us after the vote was given. He replaced Silverwrath who I'm pretty sure siteflaked, so I don't really see him having put the vote there in that place either." [Yes, and Shinobi confirmed the VC was in chronological order].

Aeronaut on the double voter: "Hey, here's a question: What if the person who double voted was OFF the wagon?" [Agreed - the scum PR could be off or on the Prolapsed Brain wagon].

[Keyser Söze]

Another important comment for you to add;

BBT gives 0 fucks about this game.

Discuss.

UNVOTE:

Do you town-read me now? Or do you feel like you do not want me lynched for D2?


This is quite a jump from earlier (please explain this shift in read):

VOTE: Keyser

Sheeping Mykonian.

Keyser's recent posting was

pretty terrible and I'm not feeling the conviction in his posts

.

I believe you're scum

, yes.

Keyser is

trying hard to play the role of 'Helpful Townie' and I'm not buying it

.

[Keyser Söze]

BBT gives 0 fucks about this game.

I don't want to.

You are either defeated scum, worried about damage limitation, or you are a townie experiencing a nightmare game

I want to put you out of your misery.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Keyser Söze]

Should I claim now?

Only at L-1.

Why don't you scum-hunt? Analyse your wagon at least. Never seen you this defeatist. If you are town, you are making yourself an easy lynch option for both town and scum. Tell us your reads and why you have unvoted.

[Keyser Söze]

I can tell you there is at least two scum (probably three) in Dom/FA/Kop/Cow/Duppin.

As you're back, explain this

3 in 5 is very specific.

[Keyser Söze]

We're not putting anyone at L-1 for the rest of this game unless we're completely ready to lynch them.

True -

L-2 is the new L-1

. We must remember this.

[Keyser Söze]

Oh really? Because in 117 it seems you were suspicious of Cow's actions around the Dragon wagon.

1. I liked the TheCow's later retrospective breakdown of dragonspawn's wagon.
2. I was initially suspicious of TheCow's early question about your motive for starting a wagon on dragonspawn.

These are two seperate things. No contradiction. Please catch-up.

Please also explain these two points:

(1) why you unvoted me. You had presented me as a strong scum read of yours.

(2)

I can tell you there is at least two scum (probably three) in Dom/FA/Kop/Cow/Duppin.

Why did you scum-read two/three of those 5 in the light of your previous confessions:

Might actually try and read this today.

Haven't read the game properly since page 13 or something like that.

I might do. I'll see when I'm caught up. I've read pages 13 and 14, I'm doing good.

- You have openly sheeped two of mykonian's scum-reads.
- You have scum-read and voted for me, then unvoted without stating your reasons.
- You have stated that you do not care about this game, but you feel that "at least two of" ("probably three") of "Dom/FA/Kop/Cow/Duppin" are scum, even though you admitted you haven't been reading the game properly.

[Keyser Söze]

There is a very clear contradiction.

In the post I quoted you state that you liked Cow's early posting; you then quoted both post 85 and 72. Now, my maths might not be amazing but I'm pretty sure both of those numbers come before 117.

If my maths is correct, that means that Cow had posted two posts that you liked speaking about the Dragon wagon. However, in post 117 (which comes after Cow has posted these two posts) you state that you're suspicious of Cow because of her posts around the Dragon wagon.

Not only that but you flat out quote 72, the post you later claim you liked, highlight it in red and say it makes you suspicious.

That is 100% a contradiction. Your post followed on from Mykonian stating that Cow was town. As I keep saying, everything you do is designed to 'look' town. You posted that read to appease Mykonian and it doesn't cause any waves.

My reads on events and people have developed through-out the game, but I was very clear of my initial suspicious feelings on TheCow (Post Post #117 and Post #146) and then later my approval of his post-analysis of the wagon (Post #362).



Interestingly I was just about to post about TheCow before your anti-town "BBT gives 0 fucks about this game" outburst:

FA. I just took a glance at cows ISO and it looked as if he was focused at the start of the game and then as the game progresses his quality in posts declines. I remember you said something about his meta earlier. Can you please post the link? I think I want to look at that game

Don't agree with the "quality" comment, but I have noticed a difference in TheCow's posting for D2 - I've had a town-lean read on him since D1 (post 362) (analysing/expressing his thoughts)

But I had difficulty trying to figure out his understanding/intentions of these posts:

Dragon is acting too pushy from his town self. He thinks I am a mislynch to push, which is not going to happen.

I see, interesting theory. Perhaps we should look into this. To help us find evidence, would you mind pulling up quotes from Dragonspawn to help prove this? It would really help you prove your innocence, and in the long run, maybe root out a few scum! That would be fantastic

Making a note of what people do is defensive?

Garmr is probably town. If he was scum hr would probably be bussing his partners right now.

Says this in rvs...

I don't undestand what this quote says about you being framed. Do you think Gramr and Dragonspawn are working together to frame you then? Hmm, very interesting, if that is the implication.
Do you have anything else to add?

I feel in this post TheCow is 'prodding' Bulbazoor down a path. Instead of personally challenging and analysing Bulbazoor's accusation, TheCow wants Bulbazoor to 'prove his innocence' - does TheCow already know Bulbazoor is innocent (town)?

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Can we let him respond before putting him at L-1.

Another move designed to look pro-town from Keyser. If he knew of the secret vote, he knew his unvote made no difference. The only purpose it serves is to make Keyser look town.

Like, why sit on a wagon if you're not happy for it to get to L-1? Is there such a big difference between L-2 and L-1 that it warranted an unvote?

It was not only a pro-town move by me but a logical one. It was a lurker-wagon. Why did we need to put Prolapsed Brain at L-1 with the risk of a quick-hammer, even when he had not had the chance to reply, or role-claim? I wanted activity, not a hammer. I wanted him to fight for his win-con (post 385).

It's not my fault my decisions make me look pro-town looking back Using this against me is hilarious.

[Keyser Söze]

Comments in

red

.

I told you we needed to wait for Prolapsed Brain's response.

We didn't even get a role-claim

Trying to look town. This post literally serves no other purpose; look at it.

Why is it there

?

A player was hammered without replying or giving a role-claim. That was my natural reaction.

@BlueBloodedToffee, you either knew about the scum PR which enabled the early hammer, or scum are setting you up for the miss-lynch. Your incessant push for Prolapsed Brain to be put near L-1 needs to be flagged.

So what you're saying is I could be town or I could be scum? Nice analysis! Further, why is the person pushing the wagon scummier than the people who joined it?

I like to comment on all scenario's. I need to challenge my reads and understanding of events.

I think a 'town double voter' would have unvoted - why risk the early hammer, without hearing Prolapsed Brain's roleclaim? It is fortunate he was only a citizen.

My unvote was worthless in the end.

That's right. Just slip it in at the end of a post; just in case anyone forgot.

It was my developing theory that it was a scum-aligned double vote PR. The consequent votes/unvotes after the unexpected hammer were invalid, as stated my Shinobi. My reaction is documented.

Please answer my (2) points in post 759.

[Keyser Söze]

It was my developing theory that it was a scum-aligned double vote PR. The consequent votes/unvotes after the unexpected hammer were invalid, as stated my Shinobi*. My reaction is documented.

*pisskop - different mod, different game

[Keyser Söze]

So, about that contradiction?

My reads on events and people have developed through-out the game, but I was very clear of my initial suspicious feelings on TheCow (Post Post #117 and Post #146) and then later my approval of his post-analysis of the wagon (Post #362).

Please answer my (2) points in post 759

[Keyser Söze]

That doesn't answer for the contradiction whatsoever.

VOTE: Keyser

My vote won't be moving.

I was

initially

VERY suspicious of TheCow's

motivation

for asking you about dragonspawn's wagon (hence the early finger of suspicion)
I was

later

VERY happy about TheCow's retrospective breakdown of the dragonspawn wagon. Thus, my read on both TheCow and his motivations

changed

(hence the later town-lean read).


Shall I add my name on to your earlier suspicion list?

"I can tell you there is at least two scum (probably three) in Dom/FA/Kop/Cow/Duppin."

I would genuinely like to hear your scum-read analysis on their slots.

[Keyser Söze]

@pisskop

. Do any scum faction(s) have day chat?

As per the game rules, All private chats have daychat

[Keyser Söze]

Bulba, where did your suspicion of Keyser go? You seemed pretty set on it in your first post.

I am still curious about this too - I dislike "meta" reasons.

LOOK AT THE SCUM ON MY WAGON!

LOOK AT THEM!

FILTHY. ABSOLUTELY FILTHY.

We started with 21 players. We would thus expect 5 or 6 scum for a balanced set-up. Do you honestly believe 4 of the scum (FA_Q2, TheDominator37, Kop, Keysor Söze) would

all

be on your wagon?

The extra kill only intensifies this.

Almost forgot this. Only one extra kill huh, FA?

We're in multi-ball ladies and gentleman. FA was clearly expecting two kills; not three.

VOTE: FA

Interesting spot - I'll have to see if it's in the right context (I've town-read FA_Q2 in D2). Why is your vote off me now? You've been voting and naming lots of players now as your scum-reads. I have a worry you're just creating WIFOM now.

We've already had hint's about neighbourhoods, and possible scum-slips about multi-scum factions and people calling other players 'town' out-right - could they all be related?

As per the game rules, All private chats have daychat

Theory: BlueBloodedToffee knew he was caught, so basically gave up - "BBT gives 0 fucks about this game." (damage limitation).

Then someone in his scum day-chat tells him not to give up - to go back and cause as much confusion as possible, scum-reading half the players left alive, creating WIFOM, sheeping dead townies and voting different people.

[Keyser Söze]

How can there be you have 8 scum reads then?

Those are good odds, 8 in 16

I'll name my 16 scum-suspects next...

[Keyser Söze]

Time for today's maths lesson:

5

I'm caught up.

Willing to lynch;

Dom

,

FA

,

RC

,

Garmr

and

Dave

Today.

+ 4

Forgot

Bulba

and

Kop

; will lynch those as well.

Both Dragon's and my own wagon are

full of scum

.

I can tell you there is at least two scum (probably three) in Dom/FA/Kop/

Cow

/

Duppin

.

(BlueBloodedToffee forgot to name duppin, who he'd previously sheep-voted)

+1

VOTE:

Keyser

My vote won't be moving.

= 10

Who does that leave on his town/null read-list?

(6) Dragonspawn, kitty Galore, Aeronaut, Boonskiies, Shazam, Sword Master

[Keyser Söze]

I will catch-up this evening / tomorrow morning.

[Keyser Söze]

On page 37 catching-up.

#1, I will UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee.

[Keyser Söze]

He's an anti-town vig at best. He shot N1, which is a really bad idea. I don't trust his judgment, or his patience to not shoot wildly. I am ok with the lynch proceeding.

Yes, I have read his attitude as very anti-town, but his alignment is of most importance. Town is town.

"I am ok with the lynch proceeding"

- Shazam,

scum-lean read

.

Has anyone counter-claimed BlueBloodedToffee? No. I can see why BlueBloodedToffee would have made that shot N1.

[Keyser Söze]

Oh well, I do not know if we have any information to go on know. Kop seems like a good lynch, considering my plan that I proposed before,

which by POE

leaves kitty galore and Kop.

UNVOTE:

There's no chance you're using POE in a game with 17 players in it

This is classic comedy gold.

[Keyser Söze]

Just witnessed the quick Dragonspawn wagon on page 41...

Re 922 after a little looking

I think I see it too

. Obviously it would be hugely antitown to explain if it is indeed a guilty.
VOTE: Dragonspawn

What did you see?

[Keyser Söze]

Is it anti-town to ask how many neighbourhoods we have, and how many are actually in them?

Does being in a neighbourhood have any indication of alignment?


IMO, Kop should be replaced.

[Keyser Söze]

Dragonspawn - (7) Radiant Cowbells, duppin, garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, davesaz, Bulbazoor, Aeronaut
Dragonspawn - (7)

Sword master,

Garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

, Annadog40, Shazam
Prolapsed Brain - (11)

BlueBloodedToffee,

duppin, davesaz, Dom, TheCow, Keyser Söze,

Dragonspawn

, <Vote>, FA_Q2, Bulbazoor, Klingoncelt

Going under the assumption that Dragonspawn is town for now, and BBT is a real vig..., I am seeing zero overlap on these wagons, which I find incredibly odd. That's where I was going to go vote...

"zero overlaps"? I beg to differ.

Let's add BlueBloodedToffee's wagon:

BlueBloodedToffee - (6)

FA_Q2

, Kop,

Keysor Söze

,

Shazam

, Kitty Galore, TheDominator37

Dragonspawn - (7) Radiant Cowbells, duppin, garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

davesaz

, Bulbazoor, Aeronaut
Dragonspawn - (7)

Sword master,

Garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

, Annadog40,

Shazam

Prolapsed Brain - (11)

BlueBloodedToffee,

duppin,

davesaz

, Dom, TheCow,

Keyser Söze

,

Dragonspawn

, <Vote>,

FA_Q2

, Bulbazoor, Klingoncelt

[Keyser Söze]

What do the red names mean

Theory: If BlueBloodedToffee and Dragonspawn are town, look at which players overlap in these wagons [highlighted red] (presumably they are more likely to be scum, wanting a miss-lynch. Not conclusive evidence, only supporting theory.


What is going on gents, is everyone in the 'neighbourhood' getting high? :

post 1072
post 1073
post 1074

[Keyser Söze]

@pisskop

, VC please.

IMO, no votes should be currently on garmr or BlueBloodedToffee.
garmr - post 729
BlueBloodedToffee - claimed town PR.


VOTE: davesaz

Reasons? Will add later. He is currently on my 'uncomfortable' read list.

[Keyser Söze]

Catching up this morning.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: davesaz

Reasons? Will add later. He is currently on my

'uncomfortable'

read list.

Questioned my presumption about the double voter PR being scum-aligned (post 486).

davesaz was on the Prolapsed Brain wagon (post 254).

davesaz voted Kitty Galore on D2 for lurking:

Aeronaut on davesaz's vote on Kitty Galore: "This is gross." [This is true, alot has happened D1/N1/D2, and to vote for Kitty Galore for lurking is lazy IMO. Why doesn't davesaz want to comment on the bigger wagons?]

davesaz was quick to join the Dragonspawn wagon: post 1081

davesaz questioned my presumption that the double vote was placed chronologically in the VC (post 632).

I did not believe the sincerity of post 1035.

________________

[Posts since my vote]

I did not believe in the logic of the reason for his Dragonspawn vote (post 1176) - "clearly" does not mean 'guilty'.

[Keyser Söze]

garmr - (4) Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus

VOTE: garmr

VOTE: garmr

Hate to broadcast it again, but:

In post 468, pisskop wrote:
Annadog40, [Town] Gunsmith, has died Night 1.
Mykonian, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town

.

Is this the scum counter-wagon or am I on the wrong wagon?
Do Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37 scum-read both Garmr and Aeronaut?

[Keyser Söze]

Hi Ankamius, please can you explain this:

The Keyser thing overall makes dragonspawn look a whole lot worse

. I don't like that slot either.

[Keyser Söze]

Why are you believing this so easily?

Not easily - neither are confirmed town, however:
Aeronaut - has hinted at having knowledge that Garmr is town - Aeronaut is now committed to that statement.

Similarly:
BlueBloodedToffee has claimed a night vig role - BlueBloodedToffee is committed to that statement.

Do I wish to lynch either Aeronaut/Garmr/BlueBloodedToffee D2? No, it is too risky at the moment - but they are now committed to their respective 'narratives' - if false they will trip up later. [Note: I've been scum-reading BlueBloodedToffee until his soft-town PR roleclaim].

[Keyser Söze]

Would also like to point out me and Dave are potentially l-1 due to the hidden vote

Good point -

@pisskop

. VC please, we've had a flurry of votes recently.

[Keyser Söze]

Votecount 2.14

---

davesaz

- (6) Keysor Söze, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut

, ,

duppin, Shazam

garmr

- (6) Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37

Dragonspawn

- (1) Ankamius

FA_Q2

- (2) Radiant Cowbells, Bulbazoor

Titus

- (1) Kitty Galore

Not Voting:

Kop

Is this another hidden vote?

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

VOTE: dragon

VOTE: Aeronaut
I will explainn this in a second.

VOTE: FA
Another scumread for the opposite of how I read bbt.

VOTE: Kitty Galore
Following the theory above.

VOTE: Dom

VOTE: dragon

VOTE: Garmr
Dragon is town.

VOTE: dragon
I guezs we should follow the report. I did not know he was copped.

VOTE: dave
Agreed.

VOTE: FA

If he slipped hang.

VOTE: kop

True, my scumdar ws pinged by dave a few times.

VOTE: DAVESAZ

VOTE: FA
For some reason that last post by dave is ateing me up.

15 total votes (on 9 different slots):

dragonspawn x 3
FA_Q2 x 3
davesaz x 2
Keyser Söze x 1
Prolapsed Brain x 1
TheDominator37 x 1
Kop x 1
Garmr x 1
Aeronaut x 1
Kitty Galore x 1

You're not the double voter... you're the chronic voter

[Keyser Söze]

[Keyser Söze]

Can't shoot me. Other target needed. Preferably choose scum.

Do you think there are scum on your wagon?

[Keyser Söze]

Thank you for the confirmation vettrock.
The " " actually made me look at Bulbazoor's voting activity.
This in turn, made me develop my town-lean read on his behaviour.
Thank you for your assistance.

[Keyser Söze]

Dat Garmr train though. Not a fan.

What is your opinion:

If someone has soft-roleclaimed a PR, or hinted that one particular player is out-right town - would you want to lynch any of those respective players on that same day?

[Keyser Söze]

So we can't see where the secret vote is placed during a vote count

It was placed after my vote. Is the double voter PR usually unlimited?

[Keyser Söze]

I am going to look at Shazam's ISO (came on to the davesaz wagon late) and Titus' ISO (opposed the davesaz lynch D2).

[Keyser Söze]

davesaz, [Mafia] JoaT (1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Cop)

has been lynched D2!

...pisskop never gave us the chance to celebrate

We can look at davesaz' ISO in D3 too (who he scum-read, who he defended, who he town-read, who he voted).

[Keyser Söze]

Thoughts on Fire Keyser?

When I am next online I'll give you my full thoughts on his slot. But I can remember him having no conviction in his reads/votes D2. Also, I always find it scummy/anti-town when someone arrives on the thread and votes someone without reading and catching-up first.

[Keyser Söze]

I am a pretty good lynch.

Is it your intention to be lynched?

I want Firebringer to catch up with the thread and post some

solid

reads before I choose to vote for him. Indecisiveness and weak votes/reads are not always scum alignment-indicative - but at the moment he is giving me no reasons to town-read him.

Thoughts on Fire Keyser?

BlueBloodedToffee's good observations: [post 1495]
Looking at Firebringer's ISO, yes, the following assumptions can be made:
- possible bussing attempt
- evidence of weak vote
- evidence of weak town read
- opportunistic reasoning
- possible scum vs scum distancing

In addition:
- failure to read the thread thoroughly before voting

Firebringer is firmly in my uncomfortable list.

[Keyser Söze]

Rc did something useful.
We got lucky with Dave.
But I tend to agree garmr is my likely scum unless he is on another scum team.
Which considering the flip I tho k we have a vig and a SK.

Can you please add notes to each sentence explaining each one.

[Keyser Söze]

Let's be a little more explicit for Firebringer's benefit. The D1 lynch occurred at L-1 because there is a hidden vote in play. We don't know if it is a double voter, a silent voter, or what. In that light, any L-2 is a L-1.

BTW, I'm certain the Bella/Dom/Firebringer slot is town. Just so you know, observing my posts can show you, all you need to know is, the wagon on me is on town. I would be more circumspect if the count were lower, but it is a virtual L-1 in my eyes.

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

Forefinger didn't replace Dom he replaced kop

Firebringer stupid autocorrect

Oh, good catch. This ought to provide some interesting information if dave is lynched. He was townreading a slot without even knowing who the replacement was.

So... davesaz confuses the

Annarchy

-TheDominator37-Bellaphant slot with the

Firebringer

-Kop slot. He says he is "certain"

Firebringer

-TheDominator37-Bellaphant is town.

Then... davesaz flips mafia... the JoaT (1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Cop) of all things

@Shazam, what are your thoughts now on the implications of davesaz's town-reads after his flip?

[Keyser Söze]

I dont like dave's wagon considering all my scum reads are there and I scum read garmr so my vote is better served there.

I actually like the honesty of this statement i.e I do not think scum would have been brave enough to say it.

[Keyser Söze]

Summary of Titus' reads of davesaz and her comments on the davesaz wagon (pre-flip), while her vote remained on garmr:

Garmr, that post looks shockingly similar to the allegations placed on me in NY 181 that it was a nonsensical scum gambit by me.

I don't think Dave is scum here

. I am not 100% sure what he's saying but his frustration looks similar.

Titus asks Kitty Galore: "What do you think of

Dave

?" (post 1215)

@Ank, I would skim the ISOs of

Dave

, Garmr, and Dragon if you didn't feel comfortable adopting my no read play style.

@Garmr, I'll bite. If we're going the sarcastic route, I can play that.

Why should I vote your buddy Dave over you?

You've been wierdly buddying me by using expressions found in your scumgames, getting into laborious 1 v 1 s with Dragonspawn, who I think is town and not providing much strong evidence.

Titus shares her read of davesaz to Garmr:

I think he's townier than you

. I see nothing amazing but nothing that pings me either.

@BBT - Here's what I think of Dave.

I think he's [Dave's] townier than you [Garmr]. I see nothing amazing but nothing that pings me either.

I'm not. I'm just saying

Dave is not likely scum with the double voter

. That says nothing about single v multiball.

[

To analyse later in conjunction with the counter-wagon analysis

]

[Keyser Söze]

Let's be a little more explicit for Firebringer's benefit. The D1 lynch occurred at L-1 because there is a hidden vote in play. We don't know if it is a double voter, a silent voter, or what. In that light, any L-2 is a L-1.

BTW, I'm certain the Bella/Dom/Firebringer slot is town. Just so you know, observing my posts can show you, all you need to know is, the wagon on me is on town. I would be more circumspect if the count were lower, but it is a virtual L-1 in my eyes.

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

He said the Bella/Dom slot (AKA Annarchy) was town, even though HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS IN THE SLOT, because he said Firebringer. I believe he "townread" the slot because he was familiar with Bella/Dom being his scumpartners,

but forgot who replaced in

. VOTE: Annarchy

This makes more sense than the alternative view, which would be that he knew his current scumbuddy, but not their predecessors.

After thinking it over, I would prefer that people trust me and stop voting Firebringer rather than me explaining.

The mod has stated that scum have day chat - surely davesaz would have acknowledged either Annarchy or Firebringer replacing-in, in the scum thread - and not "forgot".
Thoughts?

[Keyser Söze]

Shazam, I feel like it's also possible that

Dave had used his Cop

at that point, and may have known that the slot was town and therefor was saying that for towncred.

Mafia already know who town are...

Does this indicate that there truly is a third scum-faction? Why would mafia need a cop role?

[Keyser Söze]

Shazam, I feel like it's also possible that

Dave had used his Cop

at that point, and may have known that the slot was town and therefor was saying that for towncred.

Mafia already know who town are...

Does this indicate that there truly is a

third

scum-faction? Why would mafia need a cop role?

Second.

[Keyser Söze]

I have 4 pages to catch-up with.

[Keyser Söze]

I will be online this evening.

[Keyser Söze]

Thank's for the prod.
I will promise you both my thoughts and vote tonight - this weekend has been difficult.

[Keyser Söze]

I will promise you both my thoughts and vote tonight

- this weekend has been difficult.

I cannot keep to my promise now

[Keyser Söze]

I am back.

I will be catching up now - so if anyone is L-2, I suggest you unvote, so that we don't witness yet another quick-lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

Aeronaut, are you now in a position to explain this:

Annadog40,

[Town] Gunsmith

, has died Night 1.
Mykonian,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town

.

Scum = Aero, Titus, Boon....

somewhere in there

.

What information/posts made you narrow it down to those 3 players?

Looking at the VC history my vote would be on FA_Q2 - but I am still catching up.

[Keyser Söze]

Why are you assuming it's two scum teams?

- Why would mafia need a cop role (JoaT) - this implies another scum faction.
- 3 deaths Night One: 1 x Town Vig, 1 x Mafia, 1 x Other?

VOTE: St Const

For two reasons:

1: I see him as scum. Something just sits weird with me for him.

Curious timing on vote:

4 votes were on Aeronaut - you didn't care to comment on that wagon?
Is St Constantine the Hermit a gut scum-read?

[Keyser Söze]

You know what, screw waiting

VOTE: Fire

Did Shazam ever confirm why we shouldn't lynch Firebringer:

Shazam I want to know if there's really specific reasoning behind why you want us to not lynch fire.

Yes, there is.

[Keyser Söze]

Nope, I really won't be lynched today.

If I'm not already lynched I'll post in a bit.

I sense a shift in your acceptence/position regarding your own lynch. Has something changed?

[Keyser Söze]

Fire wagon is the best wagon to be on.
It has cookies.

I have read Firebringer's ISO.

In summary: Firebringer self-knowingly plays the anti/bad-town act - what is his motivation?

It will draw attention to their slot, and encourage both policy lynch votes from town and opportunistic votes from scum.
It creates a 'too scummy to be scum' paradox, which is anti-town.
Makes me have neither a strong town, or strong scum read on their slot - thus, is it a meta-playstyle defence tactic?

[Keyser Söze]

Has anyone played with Firebringer before?

[Keyser Söze]

I'll be online this evening.

I will look at my scum-reads.

[Keyser Söze]

Spoiler: Vote Counts

Votecount 1.01

---

ronit

- (4) Sword master, Garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut

Radiant Cowbells

- (2)

Annadog40

,

Prolapsed Brain

TheCow

- (2)

davesaz

, Boonskiies

mykonian

- (1)

Shazam

Bulbazoor

- (1) duppin

Sword Master

- (1)

ronit

BlueBlooded Toffee

- (1) TheCow

davesaz

- (1) Bellaphant

duppin

- (1)

mykonian

Not Voting:

RadiantCowbells

,

Bulbazoor

, Kop, FA_Q2, duppin, Kitty Galore,

Klingoncelt

, Keyser Söze

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.02

---

ronit

- (7) Sword master, Garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

,

Annadog40

,

Shazam

TheCow

- (2)

davesaz

,

Radiant Cowbells

BlueBlooded Toffee

- (2) TheCow,

Klingoncelt

Bulbazoor

- (1) duppin

Sword Master

- (1)

ronit

davesaz

- (1) Bellaphant

duppin

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, FA_Q2, duppin, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.04

---

ronit

- (7) Sword master, Garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

TheCow

- (2)

davesaz

,

Radiant Cowbells

BlueBlooded Toffee

- (2) TheCow,

Klingoncelt

Sword Master

- (1)

davesaz

- (1) Bellaphant

duppin

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Bellaphant

- (1)

ronit

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, FA_Q2, duppin, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, duppin

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.06

---

ronit

- (5) Sword master, Garmr, Aeronaut,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

Prolapsed Brain

- (3) BlueBloodedToffee, duppin,

davesaz

TheCow

- (1)

Sword Master

- (1)

davesaz

- (1)

Keyser Söze

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Bellaphant

- (1)

ronit

Shazam

- (1) Keyser Söze

Radiant Cowbells

- (1) FA_Q2

mykonian

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Bellaphant, Kitty Galore,

Prolapsed Brain

, TheCow,

Klingoncelt

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.07

---

Prolapsed Brain

- (5) BlueBloodedToffee, duppin,

davesaz

, Bellaphant, TheCow

ronit

- (4) Sword master, Garmr,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

davesaz

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Keyser Söze

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Bellaphant

- (1)

ronit

Shazam

- (1) Aeronaut

Radiant Cowbells

- (1) FA_Q2

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Kitty Galore,

Prolapsed Brain

,

Klingoncelt

, Keyser Söze

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Kop, Sword Master, and

Bulbazoor

are being prodded

VC Remains unchanged

Votecount 1.08

---

Prolapsed Brain

- (5) BlueBloodedToffee, duppin,

davesaz

, Bellaphant, TheCow

ronit

- (4) Sword master, Garmr,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

davesaz

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Keyser Söze

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Bellaphant

- (1)

ronit

Shazam

- (1) Aeronaut

Radiant Cowbells

- (1) FA_Q2

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Kitty Galore,

Prolapsed Brain

,

Klingoncelt

, Keyser Söze

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.09

---

Prolapsed Brain

- (8) BlueBloodedToffee, duppin,

davesaz

, Bellaphant, TheCow, Keyser Söze,

ronit

, FA_Q2

ronit

- (4) Sword master, Garmr,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

davesaz

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Keyser Söze

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Shazam

- (1) Aeronaut

Not Voting:

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Kitty Galore,

Prolapsed Brain

,

Klingoncelt

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

Votecount 1.LYNCH

---

Prolapsed Brain

- (11) BlueBloodedToffee, duppin,

davesaz

, Bellaphant, TheCow, Keyser Söze,

ronit

, <Vote>, FA_Q2,

Bulbazoor

,

Klingoncelt

-

!!LYNCH!!

ronit

- (4) Sword master, Garmr,

Shazam

,

Annadog40

davesaz

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Keyser Söze

- (1)

mykonian

garmr

- (1) Boonskiies

Bellaphant

- (1) Aeronaut

Not Voting:

Kop, Kitty Galore,

Prolapsed Brain

---

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.
Deadline is 10AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-10 17:00:00)

All Votes after post 421 are invalid and will not be counted.

Votecount 2.01

---

Bulbazoor

- (2)

ronit

, Keysor Söze

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) garmr, FA_Q2,

ronit

- (2)

Shazam

,

Radiant Cowbells

Keysoe Söze

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut,

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Bellaphant, Garmr,

davesaz

, duppin, Kitty Galore, TheCow

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Votecount 2.02

---

ronit

- (5)

Shazam

,

Radiant Cowbells

,

Bulbazoor

, gamr, duppin

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) garmr, FA_Q2,

Bulbazoor

- (1)

ronit

Keysoe Söze

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

kitty Galore

- (1)

davesaz

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut,

Bulbazoor

, Kop, Bellaphant, Kitty Galore, TheCow, Keysor Söze

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Votecount 2.03

---

ronit

- (5)

Shazam

,

Radiant Cowbells

,

Bulbazoor

, garmr, duppin

BlueBloodedToffee

- (3) FA_Q2, TheDominator37, Kop

Bulbazoor

- (1)

ronit

Keysoe Söze

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

kitty Galore

- (1)

davesaz

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut,

Bulbazoor

, Kitty Galore, TheCow, Keysor Söze

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Aeronaut is V/LA until Friday, 07AUG15
Sword Master is V/LA until xxyy, or a time when I feel his abscence is unacceptable.

---

Votecount 2.04

---

ronit

- (4)

Radiant Cowbells

,

Bulbazoor

, garmr, duppin

BlueBloodedToffee

- (4) FA_Q2, TheDominator37, Kop, Keysor Söze

Bulbazoor

- (1)

ronit

Keysoe Söze

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

kitty Galore

- (1)

davesaz

Aeronaut

- (1)

Bulbazoor

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut, Kitty Galore, TheCow, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

,

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Sword Master will be replaced today if he does not respond by 4pm forum time.
TheCow is V/LA until 09AUG15

Votecount 2.05

---

BlueBloodedToffee

- (5) FA_Q2, TheDominator37, Kop, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

ronit

- (3)

Radiant Cowbells

, garmr, duppin

FA_Q2

- (2) BlueBloodedToffee,

davesaz

Bulbazoor

- (1)

ronit

Kitty Galore

- (1)

Bulbazoor

Aeronaut

- (1)

Bulbazoor

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Titus, Aeronaut, Kitty Galore, TheCow, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

,

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

TheCow is V/LA until 09AUG15

Votecount 2.07

---

BlueBloodedToffee

- (5) FA_Q2, Kop, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

, Kitty Galore

ronit

- (5)

Radiant Cowbells

, duppin, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee,

Bulbazoor

garmr

- (2)

ronit

, Boonskiies

FA_Q2

- (1)

davesaz

Not Voting:

Titus, Aeronaut, TheCow, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

, TheDominator37

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

TheCow will be prodded tomorrow if he does not post by the evening.

Votecount 2.08

---

BlueBloodedToffee

- (6) FA_Q2, Kop, Keysor Söze,

Shazam

, Kitty Galore, TheDominator37

ronit

- (6)

Radiant Cowbells

, duppin, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee,

davesaz

,

Bulbazoor

garmr

- (2)

ronit

, Boonskiies

Not Voting:

Titus, Aeronaut, TheCow

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

TheCow will be prodded tomorrow if he does not post by the evening.

Votecount 2.09

---

garmr

- (4)

ronit

, Boonskiies,

davesaz

, TheDominator37

davesaz

- (2) Keysor Söze, BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) FA_Q2, Kitty Galore

ronit

- (1) duppin, garmr

Aeronaut

- (1)

Shazam

Kop

- (1) Titus

FA_Q2

- (1)

Bulbazoor

Not Voting:

Titus, TheCow, Aeronaut, Kop,

Radiant Cowbells

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Prodding TheCow
Prodding Kop with a final warning

Votecount 2.10

---

garmr

- (4)

ronit

, Boonskiies,

davesaz

, TheDominator37

Kop

- (3) Titus,

Bulbazoor

, BlueBloodedToffee

davesaz

- (2) Keysor Söze, garmr

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) FA_Q2, Kitty Galore

ronit

- (1) duppin

Aeronaut

- (1)

Shazam

FA_Q2

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Not Voting:

TheCow, Aeronaut, Kop

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Votecount 2.11

---

davesaz

- (5) Keysor Söze, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut,

Bulbazoor

garmr

- (3)

ronit

, Boonskiies,

davesaz

Kop

- (1) Titus

BlueBloodedToffee

- (1) FA_Q2

ronit

- (1) duppin

Aeronaut

- (1)

Shazam

FA_Q2

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Titus

- (1) Kitty Galore

Not Voting:

Ankamius, Kop, TheDominator37

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Seeking replacement for Kop

Votecount 2.12

---

davesaz

- (5) Keysor Söze, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut,

Bulbazoor

garmr

- (4)

ronit

, Boonskiies,

davesaz

, Titus

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) FA_Q2, TheDominator37

ronit

- (2) duppin, Ankamius

Aeronaut

- (1)

Shazam

FA_Q2

- (1)

Radiant Cowbells

Titus

- (1) Kitty Galore

Not Voting:

Kop

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Seeking replacement for Kop

Votecount 2.15

---

davesaz

- (6) Keysor Söze, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut, duppin,

Shazam

garmr

- (6)

ronit

, Boonskiies,

davesaz

, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37

ronit

- (1) Ankamius

FA_Q2

- (2)

Radiant Cowbells

,

Bulbazoor

Titus

- (1) Kitty Galore

Not Voting:

Firebringer

---

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

Seeking replacement for TheDominator37

davesaz

is V/LA until Sunday.

Votecount 3.01

---

Firebringer

- (2) BlueBloodedToffee, FA_Q2

ronit

- (1) Firebringer

Annarchy

- (1)

Shazam

Not Voting:

Boonskiies,

Bulbazoor

,

ronit

, Annarchy, Garmr, Ankamius, duppin, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, Aeronaut

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.02

---

ronit

- (6) Firebringer,

Shazam

, garmr, duppin, Annarchy, Ankamius

Firebringer

- (1) FA_Q2

Annarchy

- (1)

ronit

FA_Q2

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting:

Boonskiies,

Bulbazoor

, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, Aeronaut

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.03

---

ronit

- (3) Firebringer, garmr, Annarchy

Annarchy

- (2)

ronit

,

Shazam

Firebringer

- (1) FA_Q2

FA_Q2

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Kitty Galore

- (1)

Bulbazoor

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, Aeronaut, duppin, Ankamius

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.04

---

Shazam

- (3) Ankamius, FA_Q2, Firebringer

Annarchy

- (3)

ronit

,

Shazam

,

Bulbazoor

ronit

- (2) garmr, Annarchy

Firebringer

- (1) FA_Q2

FA_Q2

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, Aeronaut, duppin

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.05

---

Shazam

- (3) Ankamius, FA_Q2, Firebringer

SaintConstantinetheHermit

- (3)

ronit

,

Shazam

,

Bulbazoor

ronit

- (2) garmr, Annarchy

Firebringer

- (1) FA_Q2

FA_Q2

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Kitty Galore

- (1) Aeronaut

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, duppin

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.07

---

ronit

- (7) garmr, SaintConstantinetheHermit, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Firebringer, Ankamius, BlueBloodedToffee

SaintConstantinetheHermit

- (3)

ronit

,

Bulbazoor

,

Shazam

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, duppin

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

Votecount 3.LYNCH

---

ronit

- (8) garmr, SaintConstantinetheHermit, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Firebringer, Ankamius, BlueBloodedToffee, <vote>

SaintConstantinetheHermit

- (3)

ronit

,

Bulbazoor

,

Shazam

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Kitty Galore, Keyser Söze, Titus, duppin

---

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline is 01SEP15, (expired on 2015-09-01 13:00:00)

FA_Q2, you've been on the wrong side of every wagon and read so far.

If we read garmr's D3 wagon as mafia's counter-wagon to davesaz's wagon, are we saying only 1 mafia was on garmr's wagon?

garmr - (6) ronit, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37

If there is a 2nd scum faction or SK (as hinted by the mafia cop role), mafia didn't mind garmr lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

What's the VC?

I don't like easy wagons.
Firebringer's wagon would be the easiest lynch I've witnessed for a while.
Firebringer has been begging to be lynched since the start of D3 - I found this hilarious at the time, but looking at the number of town deaths we haven't got room for laughs.

Intention if he is scum:
- Take the votes off his scum partner and sacrifice himself
- he may have a scum role that makes him unlynchable or take down the player who hammers
- unsuccessfully pulling off the 'too scummy to be scum' act

Intention if town:
- he's carrying out his usual site-meta (both as scum or town he plays this way): his consistency makes it hard for us for us to town/scum-read him - thus defence style.
- anti-town
- anti-town
- anti-town

I respect his attempt to post a read list (is he L-1?)

[Keyser Söze]

Is St Constantine the Hermit happy to lurk and watch Firebringer be lynched?

[Keyser Söze]

We must lynch scum today.

At what stage is a mass role-claim necessary?

[Keyser Söze]

Massclaim should go now.

PR or VT Popcorn.

Then Popcorn among PRs. Last PR to claim full claims first. Then Popcorn.

Let's do this.

@Titus - ask your #1 scum-read to roleclaim VT or PR.

@pisskop - can we replace

St Constantine the Hermit 'Darth Lurker' Episode VII: The Phantom Menace

- 9 days is taking the f****** p***

[Keyser Söze]

Can we have a confirmation of what 'neighbourhoods' were in play too...

[Keyser Söze]

Aeronaut, nominate someone to roleclaim.

[Keyser Söze]

Is it anti-town to ask how many neighbourhoods we have, and how many are actually in them?

Yea.

Can I have an explanation now please.

Does anyone have day chat right now?

[Keyser Söze]

I think

Ronit's town...but I can't say why

.

Looking through my notes - did you explain this?

[Keyser Söze]

Scum = Aero, Titus, Boon....somewhere in there.

After making this post,

show me evidence

of your scum-hunting/putting pressure on Titus or Boonskiies (your vote put Aeronaut at L-2, so I see that follow-up (post 1938)).

[Keyser Söze]

I would suggest no votes until after the roleclaims...

We are possibly down to 3 townies right now.

[Keyser Söze]

Saint Constantine the Hermit made a shameless prodge post - no attempt to scum-hunt or offer his reads (does he want his name in the winner's list?).

@Saint Constantine the Hermit - are you VT or PR? Boonskiies nominated you.

[Keyser Söze]

I am feeling an Aero lynch

VOTE: Aero

That was yesterday - why haven't you pushed his lynch today, or offered your scum-read on him?

[Keyser Söze]

TWO OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS:

Is it anti-town to ask how many neighbourhoods we have, and how many are actually in them?

Yea.

Can I have an explanation now please.

Does anyone have day chat right now?

I think

Ronit's town...but I can't say why

.

Looking through my notes - did you explain this?

[Keyser Söze]

She has two living teams of three, even with one flipped scum.

Good spot.

[Keyser Söze]

Ankamius please claim. VT (citizen) or PR.

[Keyser Söze]

Can Boonskiies and Ankamius unvote please for now.

There is still a scum-aligned hidden double voter in play.

[Keyser Söze]

Can we have a confirmation of what 'neighbourhoods' were in play too...

Please can you confirm if you are in a neighbourhood.

[Keyser Söze]

Pending roleclaims:

Saint Constantine the Hermit (requested by Boonskiies)
Ankamius (requested by Keyser Söze)

duppin (roleclaim when you are next online).

VT or PR.

[Keyser Söze]

Pending roleclaims:

Saint Constantine the Hermit (requested by Boonskiies)
Ankamius (requested by Keyser Söze)

duppin (roleclaim when you are next online).

VT or PR.

...and mine of course. Whoever of Ankamius/Saint Constantine the Hermit/duppin requests it the first.

[Keyser Söze]

OK... we started with 21 players. Based on a balanced 4:1 (town:scum) set-up you would expect 5 or 6 scum:

15 (or 16) town.

(7/7 TOWN PR) [4 confirmed]

Annadog40, [Town] Gunsmith, was Killed Night 01
RadiantCowbells, [Town] Weak Bodyguard, was Killed Night 02
Bulbazoor, [Town] Tracker, was Killed Night 03
BlueBloodedToffee, [Town] Odd-Night Vigilante, was killed Night 04

Keyser Söze PR
Aeronaut PR
duppin PR

(13/13 TOWN CITIZEN) [8 confirmed]

Prolapsed Brain, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 01
Klingoncelt, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 01
mykonian, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 01
ronit, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 03
Shazam, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 03
Firebringer, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 04
Garmr [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 04
FA_Q2 [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 04

Titus Citizen
Kitty Galore Citizen
Boonskiies Citizen
Ankamius Citizen
Saint Constantine the Hermit Citizen

6 (or 5) scum.

(3/3 Scum A) [1 confirmed]

davesaz, [Mafia] JoaT (1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Cop), was Lynched Day 02
Mafia
Mafia

(2/2)/(3/3) Scum B?

Scum B
Scum B
Scum B?


If we presume

15 town

started the game:
That's either 5:10, 6:9 or 7:8 (PR:citizen ratio)

If we presume

16 town

started the game:
That's either 5:11, 6:10 or 7:9 (PR:citizen ratio)

If it's 7:8 that means all 5 players who have claimed VT are scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Also why are you presuming 3 scum on scum A but a variable amount on scum B?

Scum A and Scum B are unknown (we have only seen 1 flip) - but I presumed 3 of each scum if 6.
But there are presumably 5 or 6 scum. If 7, the game would have been over.
But, yes, if 5 a, variable on either.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keysor, your logic presumes that all PR claimers are town. While I believe you and Aero are town, I think getting full claims from the three of you is the next step.

Since you are the last to claim PR Keyser, you are first to fullclaim.

I am the town even-night vig.

"All PR claimers are town"

- I did not say that. I know we have at

least

5

town

PR (maximum 7) - with 3 or 4 townies still alive.

[Keyser Söze]

So it could be 2 Scum A three scum B?

What about 2 and 2 given the high KPN?

The make-up of each scum faction will be pure guess-work until we see a flip.
But I am sure pisskop followed the 4:1 (town:scum) golden ratio for a balanced set-up. I doubt we started with 4 or 7 scum.

While we wait for Aeronaut and duppin to fully roleclaim, I will look into my reads on the VT (citizen) claims:

Titus - who I scum-read at first, but has been scum-hunting the most recently (providing VCA)
Kitty Galore - said she gave up
Boonskiies - who has suddenly come alive
Ankamius - whose slot I haven't focussed on lately (since he was on the davesaz wagon)
Saint Constantine the Hermit - who has lurked since taking over the TheDominator37 slot

[Keyser Söze]

Ankamius

never voted on davesaz

. Sure you didn't get him mixed up with someone else?[/quote]
This is interesting - he scum-read davesaz but did not vote for him.

What is a vigi enabler?

[Keyser Söze]

Ankamius' scum-read on davesaz:

I can definitely see davesaz being likely scum. Just look at 167+254 together and apply that context to the rest of his ISO and it's pretty clear how fake it all is.

167 = Weak reads based on relatively strong reasoning.
254 = Relatively strong read based on weak reasoning.

Basically, I'm getting a big impression that he wants to look busy, but can't find any good reasons to attack people when he has to put a vote down.

...but puts his vote on dragonspawn:

lalala

VOTE: dragonspawn

Ankamius @ davesaz:

davesaz: Your 167 was literally a post giving reasonings for why people shouldn't be null, but are null anyway. Your 254 was a stronger read than any of that off something that had significantly less thought put into it.

I find it really hard to believe that it's based solely on the amount of time you play since you basically vote based on your 167s and don't based on your 254s. It actually looks even more fake that you assumed I was only talking about the two specific posts I mentioned since I originally stated that it was applying the concept to your entire ISO.

[Keyser Söze]

I admittedly scum-read BlueBloodedToffee until he roleclaimed odd-day-vig (I knew he was town after that: I think my ISO will confirm that too).

Looking at the roleclaims, there are no protective or cop roles.

We had a tracker (Bulbazoor) and a Gunsmith (Annadog40) - which would have told Annadog40 what flavour the player with a gun was: town (vig), scum A or scum B.

On Night 2 I was going to shoot Titus but changed my mind and chose to not shoot after the 3 town-kills on N1.
RadiantCowbells was the single NK (scum).

This indicates that one scum team targetted a protected/bulletproof player (Aeronaut?).
Similarly in N3, BlueBloodedToffee shot Bulbazoor, scum shot Shazam, but there wasn't a third NK again.

N4, both my shot and 2 scum shots killed 3 townies


Here's the picture now:

15 (or 16) town.

(7/7 TOWN PR) [4 confirmed]

Annadog40, [Town] Gunsmith, was Killed Night 01
RadiantCowbells, [Town] Weak Bodyguard, was Killed Night 02
Bulbazoor, [Town] Tracker, was Killed Night 03
BlueBloodedToffee, [Town] Odd-Night Vigilante, was killed Night 04

Keyser Söze Even-Night Vigilante
Aeronaut Two-shot Bulletproof Townie
duppin Vigilante Enabler

(13/13 TOWN CITIZEN) [8 confirmed]

Prolapsed Brain, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 01
Klingoncelt, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 01
mykonian, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 01
ronit, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 03
Shazam, [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 03
Firebringer, [Town] Citizen, was Lynched Day 04
Garmr [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 04
FA_Q2 [Town] Citizen, was Killed Night 04

Titus Citizen
Kitty Galore Citizen
Boonskiies Citizen
Ankamius Citizen
Saint Constantine the Hermit Citizen

6 (or 5) scum.

Only 3 or 4 players are telling the truth.
ME + 2 or 3 others.

[Keyser Söze]

I feel duppin, Titus, Boon... team

Aero, Keysor, ank.... team

have no idea on hermit.

Do the role-claims have any effect on your reads?


Does anyone town-read Boonskiies?

Low-activity through-out the game (if you had a PR, I'd understand), but you claimed VT. Motivation? VT's should be the loudest.

[Keyser Söze]

I like the idea of lynching Ankamius or Kitty. Let's not lynch anyone else.

Please state your reasons.

Intent to vote Boonskiies

[Keyser Söze]

Key, who did you shoot last night?

FA_Q2

[Keyser Söze]

Key, who did you shoot last night?

FA_Q2

That makes more sense as a BBT shot.

BBT was an

odd-night

vig. I do not like that post Titus

[Keyser Söze]

Performer, show me more of Boonskiie's "pro-town" posts.

[Keyser Söze]

Why did you decide to kill FA?

I will paraphrase the PM I sent pisskop:

"BlueBloodedToffee is town.
FA_Q2 has constantly read scum as town, and town as scum.
St Constantine the Hermit has been lurking since replacing in.
garmr I like as town, or anti-mafia scum.
I like duppin and Titus' scum-hunting.
Aeronaut, great start, now null.
Ankamius, Kitty Galore and Boonskies, I have no real strong town read on these slots.

Shoot FA..."

Sorry FA.