Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Gamma Emerald]

tfw you find out MB is a Lindsey Stirling fan

reading up now

[Gamma Emerald]

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).

I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Are there any votes you specifically have a problem with?

[Gamma Emerald]

LINE OF DEMARCATION
Whoever said that one guy was bussing that other guy is probably town. Wait no nevermind, I found that post and it's pretty lame.

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

How am I misguided town if I'm voting scum day 1 of day 1 when only 20% of players are scum? And I also maybe found a buddy? Wouldn't that make me... pretty awesome?

somewhat misguided, it's about your Postie read, I feel you're reading way too deep into Postie's remarks.

Also WTF Tchill you shouldn't be asking what you should comment on, you should just read and if anyone asks do what they ask

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Could you try to back that up?

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

what would indicate to you that he could be right about dunnstral bussing marquis? do you have a read on dunnstral from his one post / did something about it look like bussing to you? i'm not convinced you actually have anything here.

The fact that the only post so far was a naked vote on an existing wagon
thinking on it tho maybe I should just
VOTE: Dunnstral
Since tbh regardless of Marquis' alignment Dunnstral's vote was weird

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

Can you talk more in-depth on LQ, I'm kinda on-the-fence there

Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?

Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.

yeah I know, consider that post more of an exasperated sigh than anything else.

I would like to add that at any point I will contribute to a sauce policy lynch without hesitation

idk I feel like Saue is one of

those people

, the ones who're annoying but fairly good at being towny to anyone who can actually read them

Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.

I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.

What is your (or your teams) read on chill?

Not my question but so far I'm kinda townreading him, could change on later pages though

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?

honestly I prolly won't read into team alignment picks because they could pull a switcheroo

@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?

I don't really think that's true? My Marquis read was made by myself, but I just stated I felt Llamar was right. I also have my own reads on Llamar and Dunnstral

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

I can see how they got their reads, that's why lol

stopped at top of page 9, will do more later today

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Could you try to back that up?

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

what would indicate to you that he could be right about dunnstral bussing marquis? do you have a read on dunnstral from his one post / did something about it look like bussing to you? i'm not convinced you actually have anything here.

The fact that the only post so far was a naked vote on an existing wagon
thinking on it tho maybe I should just
VOTE: Dunnstral
Since tbh regardless of Marquis' alignment Dunnstral's vote was weird

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

Can you talk more in-depth on LQ, I'm kinda on-the-fence there

Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?

Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.

yeah I know, consider that post more of an exasperated sigh than anything else.

I would like to add that at any point I will contribute to a sauce policy lynch without hesitation

idk I feel like Saue is one of

those people

, the ones who're annoying but fairly good at being towny to anyone who can actually read them

Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.

I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.

What is your (or your teams) read on chill?

Not my question but so far I'm kinda townreading him, could change on later pages though

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?

honestly I prolly won't read into team alignment picks because they could pull a switcheroo

@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?

I don't really think that's true? My Marquis read was made by myself, but I just stated I felt Llamar was right. I also have my own reads on Llamar and Dunnstral

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

I can see how they got their reads, that's why lol

stopped at top of page 9, will do more later today

Fixing a broken quote
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Honesly yeah I agree on this post being weird. I was able to make something of Dunnstral's vote, and I never said I knew Llamar was town.

[Gamma Emerald]

You mentioned you had a "read" on dunn that was your own. Can you elaborate on that. How did you get a read from a naked RVS vote and then never posting again?

I read it as a wolfy pop-in, he jumped in to vote and nothing else, meaning he didn't care about anything but pushing the wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

The Marquis wagon, wtf bro you say he just made one vote, why can't you discern the wagon from that?

FOS TSQ

[Gamma Emerald]

Here, I'll help you out:


If your claim is that he "wolfy jumped in the thread" and made a vote based off of wanting to "push a wagon" you'd think maybe he'd have chosen actually a wagon, instead of just randomly throwing a vote at the wind in a place where no one else was.

More to the point, I find it deeply unsettling that you think this is the most important thing to go off of at this point. We have 10 whole pages bruh.

VOTE: gamma emerald

I thought others voted before him, huh
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I'm not wild about the fact that your first instinct was to attack me instead of trying to figure out what I meant. As town when someone says something to me that on face doesn't make sense my first reaction is generally to try to clarify, not to fos them.

I thought you were trying to br obtuse, now I see you were right I'm no longer FOSing you

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok but why are you voting dunn? Your vote for him is nonsense and there's a lot of scum motivation to park on the lurker who is literally doing nothing, and then make a big show about it as if you had some hyper special read on him and you didn't understand why others didn't. What do you think about the literal anything else thats happened in this game? Why do you think that dunn is the best vote when there is so much going on? Why were you unaware that it wasn't a wagon vote when you've placed your entire sorting efforts in this game into figuring out what happened in that one random early vote?

Okaaaay you're blowing this way out of proportion and I don't like it. I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push. Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this.
VOTE: TheStatusQuo

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright guys, got our first.

Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?

[Gamma Emerald]

So this is based on how you play then? That's alright but not everyone plays the same, so that's not a perfect method of reading people.

[Gamma Emerald]

I had multiple questions in my big post today, but it's possible they got lost in the fact that the quotes mangled
Going in order with the rest of the points, you're not trying to convince scum they're scum, you're responding to issues I have with your read/case on me.
I changed gears because there was the fact that my teammate didn't seem to trust you, along with the fact you seemed to completely miss my unvote. So did you miss it or just choose to say I was still voting him?
Yeah I voted Marquis after Dunn which it's fair that you scumread that vote, but there's the fact I didn't realize Dunnstral was the first vote. Plus, his post was a naked vote while I gave early reads in my voting post. So they're not the same.
And you say I expressed strong suspicion on you and Dunnstral, what do you see my Marquis vote as?

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't sheep Llamarble I agreed with him.
On the topic of me giving my pushes scrutiny I believe I've noticed quite a bit of missed content on your side too TSQ.
Also some questions from the aforementioned teammate: why didn't you believe nsg's self-meta, and why did you write Marquis off as null?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay that's fair on Marquis. I feel like self-meta is a person-to-person thing. With Naomi-Tan, I believe their's since it's consistent. I feel like your "using it to write off an attack is invalid" point is pretty sensible though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I'm not done on the self-meta thing. TSQ, don't you feel if someone knew the player they could disprove the faulty self-meta, thus making it a substantial risk?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what". As for LQ's post, I guess that's a reasonable expectation, but there's also the fact that it was a common thread in the post, so I kinda didn't think anything was up with that one in particular.
As for the sauce read, I hadn't really seen much of him yet in that first post. By the time I posted 231 I had gotten to see what he was like more.
Why are you getting a townread from TSQ in the 1v1?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

Why didn't you take issue with this before?

[Gamma Emerald]

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what". As for LQ's post, I guess that's a reasonable expectation, but there's also the fact that it was a common thread in the post, so I kinda didn't think anything was up with that one in particular.
As for the sauce read, I hadn't really seen much of him yet in that first post. By the time I posted 231 I had gotten to see what he was like more.
Why are you getting a townread from TSQ in the 1v1?

If you didn't think there was something funky with LQ's assessment of Dunn's vote you would not have called him out on it, despite it sharing a similar structure to his assessments on Llmarble's and Postie's votes.

Can you explain how the additional posts of Sauce in-between 105 and 231 drastically changed your view of him as a contender for your vote into someone that someone else might townread?

I see honest scum hunting from TSQ in posts 254 and 265. It's actually good he missed your unvote, as I think I wouldn't have as clear a picture as I do now than if he hadn't.

So what you're saying is the fact I picked it out means I should have noticed what you thought I should? I guess that's fair, but I guess I was just in tunnel vision.
As for Sauce, I feel like it's a general thing about the way he posts. Another person I feel is one of those "annoying but readable" types is Ramcius.
wrt TSQ, Are you saying the missing of the unvote was towny or that it helped you sort him?

Also Dunn I kinda want to know why you're voting Postie, which is kinda a faded wagon, over me, who has been more contentious currently.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also some questions from the aforementioned teammate: why didn't you believe nsg's self-meta, and why did you write Marquis off as null?

I dont believe anyones self meta, especially when its presented in as an attempt to answer an attack on them.

i'd like to say again that i haven't done any self-meta this game, nor was the comment tsq is interpreting as self-meta an attempt to answer an attack on me – it was a defense of postie and a statement to llamarble that i didn't think his tells made any sense. the "if i were scum" was meant as a turn of phrase as to what i think scum would be more likely to do moreso than a comment relating to myself.

You mentioned you would have lurked as scum, that's self-meta friendo

Also some questions from the aforementioned teammate: why didn't you believe nsg's self-meta, and why did you write Marquis off as null?

I dont believe anyones self meta, especially when its presented in as an attempt to answer an attack on them.

i'd like to say again that i haven't done any self-meta this game, nor was the comment tsq is interpreting as self-meta an attempt to answer an attack on me – it was a defense of postie and a statement to llamarble that i didn't think his tells made any sense. the "if i were scum" was meant as a turn of phrase as to what i think scum would be more likely to do moreso than a comment relating to myself.

You mentioned you would have lurked as scum, that's self-meta friendo

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.

Why GE? Postie feels like they're too worried about the wording of their post.

Actually I agree I'm a more current wagon than Postie, so it makes more sense to vote me

also, i'm pretty much of the opposite opinion to dan when it comes to the tsq/gamma interaction – i think gamma's suspicion on dunn is very easily explained by a confusion of the order of events when it comes to dunn's vote vs the rest of the marquis wagon whereas i think tsq's push there feels opportunistic. mathdino agrees with me here, and he thinks the same "predatory" or "gotcha fishing"-style was visible in tsq's posts to me.

I agree that Gamma probably thought Dunn's vote on Marquis came in the middle of the wagon or at least not the first vote (although I wouldn't say that suspicion on Dunn for this is completely warranted per se), but I disagree with you and Dino that TSQ was predatory at any point.

Do you (or MathDino if he's following along) have thoughts about my 282 which is largely outside TSQ/Gamma interactions?

you'll have to let me know if i'm misunderstanding your point here, but i just don't think the inconsistencies you've pointed out are strongly scum-indicative. gamma's posts have been pinging me so far as more "disorganized" than "scum". it's not a hard townread, i just don't get any scum feelings from his posting as of yet. mathdino townreads gamma for 285 – he says that that kind of twisty, kind of weird logic more often comes from town than from scum.

also, i'm pretty much of the opposite opinion to dan when it comes to the tsq/gamma interaction – i think gamma's suspicion on dunn is very easily explained by a confusion of the order of events when it comes to dunn's vote vs the rest of the marquis wagon whereas i think tsq's push there feels opportunistic. mathdino agrees with me here, and he thinks the same "predatory" or "gotcha fishing"-style was visible in tsq's posts to me.

I had included him in my list of people I was planning on pushing on before that and that is not the only reason for me voting him. dig deeper here. my issue is not that the vote can't be explained, but rather that the vote needs to be explained, because he was still pushing it as the only thing in the game that he was actively pushing on. the fact that hes still talking about a naked rvs vote when there is 10+ pages of content to dig into as his most interested in the game and most active sorting attempt is what I am scum reading, not the fact that he was wrong about it. (although that certainly doesn't help the point.) I think this is abundantly clear from my posts.

not really going to go into a defense of gamma here, just going to say that i understand a bit more where your push is coming from now. if you're wondering why i asked you if you're still scumreading me, it's because the way you're talking to me in this post is very different than how you were talking to me earlier in the game and also to how i've noticed you talk to people you're pushing on / scumreading – if you had said that you were still scumreading you i would have taken this post as scum without genuine reads trying to convince someone on a push.


also saving this votecount to come back to look at later – it's an interesting one:

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.8

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Thestatusquo, EddieFenix, ActionDan

Postie(2)

~ Tchill13, Dunnstral

Marquis(2)

~ Llamarble, wgeurts

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Thestatusquo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (0):

VOTE: cogito ergo sum

Why did you vote CES? I don't see anything here.

also saving this votecount to come back to look at later – it's an interesting one:

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.8

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Thestatusquo, EddieFenix, ActionDan

Postie(2)

~ Tchill13, Dunnstral

Marquis(2)

~ Llamarble, wgeurts

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Thestatusquo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (0):

Commodore disagrees. Upon request to render the vote history, it temporarily stopped apparently for no reason at the one right before.

Spoiler: 283 open vh 1.1 (7)

wgeurts:@ - l Postie l Sauce l

V

Postie:@- l northsidegal l Llamarble l ActionDan l

Tchill13

l

VV

Llamarble:@ - l

northsidegal

l

Cogito Ergo Sum

l

V

northsidegal:@ - l Postie l

Marquis

l Thestatusquo l Thestatusquo l

VVV

Marquis:@ - l

Dunnstral

l

Llamarble

l Postie l

wgeurts

l Marquis l
wgeurts:@ - l Postie l

V

Thestatusquo:@ - l Lycanfire l

Gamma Emerald

l
Sauce:@ - l Thestatusquo l LicketyQuickety l

V

Tchill13:@ - l

LicketyQuickety

l

V

LicketyQuickety:@ - l

Postie

l

VV

Cogito Ergo Sum:@ - l

Lycanfire

l

Sauce

l
Dunnstral:@ - l Gamma Emerald l

VVV

Gamma Emerald:@ - l

Thestatusquo

l

EddieFenix

l

ActionDan

Unvote: - l ActionDan l Gamma Emerald l
FOS: - l GE - TSQ l

post 283

Votecount 1.7

Marquis(3)

~ Dunnstral, Llamarble, wgeurts

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Thestatusquo, EddieFenix, ActionDan

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Thestatusquo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie

Not Voting (0): l With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

lol u count FOSes in your VCs?

Also I'm gonna dive that EddieFenix ISO, because that might be valid, plus I think I recall him being a fairly decent player in Night and Day

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma why are you still voting me? Do you actually think I'm scum? If you're town I want to see actual scum hunting from you if you want me to unvote.

I was planning on doing a review of EF's ISO, now's as good a time as any

[Gamma Emerald]

You mentioned you would have lurked as scum, that's self-meta friendo

first of all – no, it isn't, and i've already explained this. if you have something to say in response then say so. second – is there some reason you commented on this? does this relate to your read on me in any way? because all i see from this is someone

looking

for something to make a response to rather than someone actually having something to respond to, if that makes sense.

@gamma, do you make your posts chronologically? that is, do you type a response to a post before reading the rest of the posts in the thread after it?

I was trying to help define self-meta. If you talk about what your play is like, that's self-meta to me. It also served the purpose of sorting you through how you responded. FYI I think your response is town. As for responding chronologically, I do that, but I try to not do that because it makes me feel stupid.

Eddie ISO coming probably within the hour, will be all Eddie posts befoer this point with some things addressing other posts before this after the ISO. After that I'll look into these other posts after this some more, I just wanted to answer the question directed at me quickly.

PEdit: Postie sorry but another wall is coming soon, would you mind it if it was spoilered?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: EddieFenix ISO review, with questions for EddieFenix

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

Given WHO she is and how she's playing with my team, I'm just gonna point to this and hope she gets a good laugh out of it when she finally sees it.

I wonder if we win by lynching EddieFenix and Marquis and Postie. Wouldn't be surprised.

"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.

Sorting me is pointless, either I'll get nightkilled immediately or we'll win. Well, both is probably the most likely outcome.
(Or I'm scum and you can autolynch me a day before lylo)
Marquis is making a grand spectacle of trying to get help from his teammates.
EddieFenix totally picked the scum role PM
You're accomodating and full-breakdowny

-point to my team leader- He know's me, he knows my IRL situation right now, and we're playing to win. Slapping me with a scum role when the last 3 games I rolled scum in were subpar at best ain't the best thing for me to have right now. I was forced town and will gladly take the time to hunt. It's also why I changed my avatar from Miles Edgeworth to Rexxar (hunter reference, heh heh heh). So keep that in mind as we go forward. Mastin already also has town vibes from you and I am inclined to agree.

-cracks knuckles- So here's where

I

sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

The mastina mention feels like Appeal to Authority tbh, making it seem that he has more sway by having a powerful teammate
I'd ask why Marq is null but enough people felt that way that I don't really care because it's not an interesting opinion.
side note: are you saying Miles is a bad guy buckaroo? Because

-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?

Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.

Addressing this here: Why didn't you feel this way about Dunnstral's vote earlier?

Not seeing Scum Postie here and IDK why people are SRing them.

Going here to see what happens:

VOTE: chill

Why TChill?

Post feels kinda empty idk

by the way, anyone else feel like 179 is a really weird thought? it's hard to put into words – it kind of feels like a pointless thing to say / comment on, maybe.

I was wondering who else was going to pick up on that.

-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?

Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.

Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...

Care to further explain why you're thinking that way?

I get why he let someone else comment first here: see if anyone else is thinking like they do, and whoever does gets townpoints for mirroring.

Hi Eddie

"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.

RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.

Early on when this game opened. I plan on getting back with her within our thread to hash out thoughts since the game has further progressed now.

by the way, anyone else feel like 179 is a really weird thought? it's hard to put into words – it kind of feels like a pointless thing to say / comment on, maybe.

I was wondering who else was going to pick up on that.

-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?

Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.

Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...

Care to further explain why you're thinking that way?

If they are Town, it's just RVS. If they are Scum, they could have some investment for manipulating things with their votes.

Which is why they are in my "further needed explanation for their vote" file.

NSG seems like lynchbait but isn't necessarily town
LQ is probably scum

Why is LQ probably scum?

What do you mean at the beginning of the game?

Nsg is locktown to me and teammates fwiw. This is way outside of her scum range and has the RC seal of approval so I won't be voting there today or ever.

Hi Eddie

"Two out of three is all you need, and you should have it, so just lynch Marquis and Postie and we win" - Mastina.

RC would like to know specifically when Mastina said this.

Early on when this game opened. I plan on getting back with her within our thread to hash out thoughts since the game has further progressed now.

Thanks. Follow-up question: has she been around since then?

She's been around a good bit, but my RL stuff has taken up a good portion of my time to get to posting in our thread for discussion. So, I am awaiting a response from Mastina at the moment.

Nothing of note here

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.

also i'd like for you to build on this.

I would like to take a reasonable stab that someone bring this to discussion as well.

How would you like it brought to discussion? This question feels very lacking in definition.

TChill, do you have a response to that? Gonna hit the shower then bed. Stuff to do tomorrow for Ed.

Given this is building off the last post without any elaboration, same thing applies: elaborate what you want.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

@Lycan: Yes I do. Thank you for your explanation.

This vote kinda feels like he's jumping me, but I won't press it since I can also see that it came right after TSQ presented a smoking gun of sorts on me.

Marble, just about how sold on the idea are you after all of this back and forth that LQ has been apart of that they're scum still?

Have a question but won't ask it yet since I want Llamar to come in and address this first.

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.

Good to see you're taking a step back to think on things.

NSG vs LQ is TvT to me. I'd like at least a 6 person town block (the 3 that are on there + LQ, Marble, and NSG if they would be so kind to join us) to turn up the heat on that GE wagon, please and thank you.

What do you think will come of a larger wagon on me? I used to be incitable with large wagons but I feel like that tendency has died in me.

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Completely and utterly logical imo.

Do you have any opinions on anyone else that could/should be added to the town core, LQ?

A simple exchange, not much I can make out of this.

VOTE: EddieFenix

Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something here

I'm taking a "slow and steady wins the game" approach. Attempting to form a town block with players whom I feel are town so that way we can start going thru PoE to find the scum team. While also attempting to make sure I flesh out reads and discuss with my team reads as the game crawls along. I feel I don't need to make a huge splash, just take a more methodical, diplomatic, and tactical approach to win for town. That's what you're missing in all honesty.

Eddie isn't as bad of a vote as I was thinking, so go for it.
Tchill is... too chill. I want to see more bite. I don't really get a feeling he's trying to win the game for town.

I'm toward the top of your town list, how is that "isn't as bad of a vote as I was thinking"? TChill hitting your scum list I can understand why he would be scum in your reads. Also, LQ being in the null area, why?

This slow and steady approach is important to my read on Eddie, but I'll get into that in my upshot later.

The "not as bad a vote" thing probably means he reconsidered his read on you and you were lower on the list.

Nevermind this (this is what I mean about me not wanting to post about things before reading ahead nsg)

I feel I don't need to make a huge splash, just take a more methodical, diplomatic, and tactical approach to win for town

The safest way to assure town's victory, random lynching through and through, is too powerful and therefore against the rules.

I'm sorry, can I get that response in English, please?! Cause going thru at least a PoE and grouping town together

How did you reach the conclusion that the wording you used to characterize yourself townbloc-lobbying might persuade anyone of it being second best?

What sort of moon logic are you on with my wording? Is building a town block

bad

to you? I'd love to hit the mark and just keep on chugging along to lead to victory, because yo, I want those Town MVP points if a tiebreaker is a make or break for being the top team.

VOTE: EddieFenix

Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something here

I'm taking a "slow and steady wins the game" approach. Attempting to form a town block with players whom I feel are town so that way we can start going thru PoE to find the scum team. While also attempting to make sure I flesh out reads and discuss with my team reads as the game crawls along. I feel I don't need to make a huge splash, just take a more methodical, diplomatic, and tactical approach to win for town. That's what you're missing in all honesty.

Eddie isn't as bad of a vote as I was thinking, so go for it.
Tchill is... too chill. I want to see more bite. I don't really get a feeling he's trying to win the game for town.

I'm toward the top of your town list, how is that "isn't as bad of a vote as I was thinking"? TChill hitting your scum list I can understand why he would be scum in your reads. Also, LQ being in the null area, why?

Well, I had you as probably town, so I was thinking you wouldn't be a good vote.
Then the surprisingly solid case of your ISO was made against you.

I wouldn't call Postie's case solid by any sense, just pointing out something that even my team captain pointed out to me. It's easy to see and read, but I have a deeper thought process going on throughout all of this.

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.

Good to see you're taking a step back to think on things.

NSG vs LQ is TvT to me. I'd like at least a 6 person town block (the 3 that are on there + LQ, Marble, and NSG if they would be so kind to join us) to turn up the heat on that GE wagon, please and thank you.

Like, what do scum want to do here, in this game where they have to survive 19 days but the odds one of them dies early aren't very high? They want to be in the town block. You want 6 people in the town block, enough to give it a very high probability of containing scum, and you're trying to organize it to make sure you're in it yourself. I feel it's premature to put :anyone: in a town block right now, possible exception of NSG but even her stuff isn't that hard to imitate as scum. I also know you like playing scum, even if it hasn't gone well for you recently. Whoever has Chesskid on their team, ask him if EddieFenix has failed this city too.

This game hasn't had enough drama yet for people to legitimately town it up. I'm thinking I might abandon my zennier take it slow read it well in favor of blowing more things up, I think this game needs that.

Realistically, there are 3 scum out of 15 players. Our odds of hitting D1 aren't particularly good. On the bright side scum have low lynch influence. If this game gets to D3 and we haven't hit scum on D1 or D2, just remember, town is FINE. Morale, continuing to try and win the game as town and not getting disengaged because the first attempts don't work out, will be really important if it gets to that.

Odds of us hitting scum aren't very high on day 1 obviously. But, I'd love to hit one and start the ball rolling. The formation of my town block comes from my personal strongest town reads so far, which includes you because I can see you're being a town player trying to figure shit out. In that same vein, you have yourself at the top of your reads list, just like everyone else who is going to try and blend in. This isn't rocket science, Marble. I'm leaving the potentially scummy players in my eyes to the wind and trying to get 6 players together, not even the majority for that matter, to HUNT and cook up pressure. LQ questioned why I would want you on the block, and it even made me take a step back and question my read on you and your place on the block. I still have you as town.

You -feel- it's hard to form a town block because of there being scum in it, but for me, I don't feel it being hard to start a block with a small pool and then we start going from there. Do I want myself to spearhead it? Duh. MVP points to break tie breakers. Yes, I like to play scum admittedly. We've played together and you know how my mindset works for that matter. However, if you're gonna drag Chesskid of all people into this, I'll personally point him to my team captain and tell him that he better think twice before he even remotely feels the need to pass his judgment. I've seen his judgment and it reeks a lot of the time.

@Sauce, english mate. Gonna need English.

This game is kinda stagnant, which makes me even happier thinking there is at least one scum in the majorish wagons. It makes sense with the setup.

It does. However, Tchill is still on Postie and that player (Tchill) REEKS of scum imo.

This post holds Llamar's explanation on his acceptance of the Eddie vote so I see that now.
As for TChill being scummy, does that mean you think Postie is town based on TChill having voteparked her?
Also this is probably the EddieFenix post I like the most.

TSQ, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Good on you for attacking, but we're in day 3 of a 14 day process. There's still a lot of time for vote swings to happen in mafia.

I don't get the exact message of this, but my guess is he's upset about TSQ rushing things. What's the issue with that?

I get that and it irks me as well. It also irks me that Marble dodged my question about LQ.

Not really much to say here, I believe this is follow-up to his last post.

My opinion of Eddie so far: he seems a bit off-color at points but it's nothing horrible. As for comparison to Night and Day, yeah there's difference between the games. He was more active there, plus he felt a bit more vocal. This first one is chalked up to his RL stuff/team strategy, and the second isn't that big of a problem in my opinion but I feel like it could be down the road.

@Dan 374: I don't think I'm gonna vote Sauce at least for right now based on my current feelings about him and having other people I'm considering before then.
@LQ 375: I agree that lurkers need to be eliminated early. In a past game I was scum and my team kept a lurker around to bog the town down.

[Gamma Emerald]

oops i lied i took melatonin see yall in 8 hrs

Try and be active maybe? I can stay awake in spite of melatonin. Also why are you taking it in winter, I've been told not to.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's cool, it's late for me anyway, I had to pull strings to get this done when I did

[Gamma Emerald]

oops i lied i took melatonin see yall in 8 hrs

Melatonin regulates your sleep schedule, it doesn't make you tired.

It does, people take supplements to help them sleep, it's a natural sleep aid, I've used it

[Gamma Emerald]

Happy to VOTE: tchill.

I'm pretty happy with gammas contributions especially 395 since our tiff. I still want him to find a good vote because I get the impression that he doesn't actually think I am one, but he seems way more engaged in trying to find one than he was before.

I don't really have any strong suspicions from current events, but I can at least
UNVOTE:
While I review the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

So you don't want to vote me because of meta, fair. Also I think in my heart I knew that about you.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Lycan: Excuse me for trying to be level-headed. I dislike being town read for my emotions, I'd rather be townread for my contributions. Who tried to outscum each other? As for Dunn, I guess that's a fair thought even with my mistake, but I was wanting to shake things up a bit since I felt the Marquis wagon was a bit stale.
Also vote a scumread. btw on this, I feel like there is a bit of focus on me, a bit more than feels normal. Also, wtf 6 scum suspects

[Gamma Emerald]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Do you want me to follow up, and if so how?

[Gamma Emerald]

llamarble aggressively null

this was more my wording but to clarify, it was more pre/early game: skrew said llama probably picked this game because he's known as a good classic scumhunter, which i thought meant was a town lean, but clarified he didn't know how to read him/meta and just knew him. it was more of a reputation based "oh it's obvious he'd pick this" wifom thing. so back and forth with reasons on both

personally i was relying on that for a short while because i'm really really aggressively bad at reading that whole set of older classic-ish players who i don't know well? if that makes sense? idk
it's probably more of an intimidation and paranoia thing more than anything else that makes me want to default scumread them because they'll always be able to pull one over me

This makes sense and is honestly kinda something I like based on the angle being used

[Gamma Emerald]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

Another post I like, this one seems to have towniness in the prose it uses

[Gamma Emerald]

hold up not voting. gonna read.

I guess good job LQ on getting them in the game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald:

Spoiler:

The mastina mention feels like Appeal to Authority tbh, making it seem that he has more sway by having a powerful teammate
I'd ask why Marq is null but enough people felt that way that I don't really care because it's not an interesting opinion.
side note: are you saying Miles is a bad guy buckaroo?

For this one, it was a response to the question in meme form because I figured it would definitely get a laugh from Mastina, and I know it got one from Bulb when he read it. Not appealing to authority, mainly meme'n just to meme.

Side Note Answer: Also, no, Miles is one of my favorite characters from the series (bad guy turned good guy and case 5 from game 1 was damn amazing!). I only switched to Rexxar because I'm actively hunting for scum this game. So, hunter and pun rolled into one. I'm a dork, sue me

Addressing this here: Why didn't you feel this way about Dunnstral's vote earlier?

The First Postie vote (303) or the First Marquis vote (29)? The first Marquis vote, because it was so early on, I honestly glazed over the person who voted. Which is bad form on my part, cause I immediately noticed Lycan's vote and latched onto needing a reasoning for it once I was deeper in.

I get why he let someone else comment first here: see if anyone else is thinking like they do, and whoever does gets townpoints for mirroring.

Nope! No town points were awarded for that. NSG was already in my "active" town pool before that. If anything, it lets me know who is at least paying attention to the game and is actively going, "heyyyyy wait a minute, somethin fishy here."

What do you mean at the beginning of the game?

As soon as our threads opened at midnight for the games, Mastina was going ham and dropping quotes in our team thread then went to bed.

How would you like it brought to discussion? This question feels very lacking in definition

You have someone making a statement that Tchill seems town. Then an immediate "shade" throw. And then the immediate counter to the shade throw. So, if you look at it from an "incredibly co-ordinated dumbass blind townie idea/theory" mentality: 1 person trying to confirm the person as town, 1 person trying to "throw shade" at that person for their attempt at trying to confirm said person as town with "no knowledge of said player", then 1 person trying to defuse the situation entirely not just 3 posts later, and then my ass coming in and going, YEAH. Bring this to discussion cause I'm aware of Tchill enjoying playing scum, so why won't someone discuss this ideal further where his meta is concerned? Yet... It looks as if I pissed into the wind at this point cause no one touched the topic of TChill's meta after I said something about it. So, for me right now, this could come from a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it. Update: I'm fully caught up now and it's something that I am going to rattle around in my head now because the dots

kinda

connect now that I sat here and talked it out).

What do you think will come of a larger wagon on me? I used to be incitable with large wagons but I feel like that tendency has died in me

Pressure to see if you crumble and it also potentially brings the scum out of the woodwork in an attempt to hammer if they're trying to lurk out and pounce when opportunity is within grasp.

As for TChill being scummy, does that mean you think Postie is town based on TChill having voteparked her?

Postie is growing on me with their use of the book terms that I have to refresh myself on every time there's a term that comes up that makes me go "what was that again?!" (IIoA being a perfect example) As well as taking the task to try and figure out the game and even taking ME to task for that matter. However, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ReF-nlrQAY I feel the need to point Postie in that direction when it comes to dealing with me. I'm an emotional wild card. I can one second be town reading you, then switch because something pinged me and I go, nahhhhh gonna gun for that (see above for example).

I don't get the exact message of this, but my guess is he's upset about TSQ rushing things. What's the issue with that?

I complimented them for their approach because of them being aggressive, but also want to remind them that we could very well be here awhile before the first lynch comes in/down.

Thanks for explaining the teammate thing, and also thanks for indulging my silliness.
The Marquis vote in 39. And yeah I feel that, I had my own goof with looking at that vote -snatches logic stick, smacks self with it, and hands it back-.
Still dig the mindset.
That makes sense, I thought there was something fishy but it was just mastina tryharding
I'll work on that TChill meta when I review him, cos I've been suspecting him and I want to put him under the microscope.
Alright. Just gonna give you a note that hammer is at 8 votes. Also, given the fact scum only has one lynch they can withstand, I doubt they'd quickhammer.
So you don't read her as town based on the wagonomics there but for other reasons? Okay.
Aha. Just telling them to be patient, I see.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill

Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.

I think this is kinda suffering from the same problem I believe it is noting: if you are asking the question you are why are you okay voting TChill? Shouldn't you have an issue with some of the voters? Or am I interpreting the question wrong?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh yeah, noticing that part of LQ's 476, I call BS, TSQ has been engaging the whole time

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dan 374: I don't think I'm gonna vote Sauce at least for right now based on my current feelings about him and having other people I'm considering before then.

What are these current feelings? Actually I'd like you to detail your feelings at 3 points in time: 105, 231, and right now.

Dunnstral, you have said Postie "leans back" when referencing her teammates opinions, but I neither see it as a crutch nor do I see any opinion of hers being deferred to her teammate's separate opinions (they seem to share many). Similarly, why if someone like RC is taking a large amount of interest in this game, would it be scummy to utilize and showcase his opinion?

Nobody has pushed her for her opinions, though

If RC was on a team with scum postie I'd expect him to be guiding her

What rubs me the wrong way is that she was constantly referring to her team which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too

Although I don't see the relevance, people were pushing Postie earlier in the game for her opinions, with the word "forced" being used by me and NSG. (if you instead meant, "no one has asked Postie for her opinions," I also don't understand the relevance of this)

The next two sentences are explicitly NAI, but previously they were both explicitly used to get a scum read on Postie, the strength of which does not equate to the sentiments expressed here.

Furthermore I don't see why you'd vote hop to Marquis when as far as I can tell you have not expressed any reason to jump off of Postie here.

---

I'm willing to call Lycan's 430 town. I understand a couple of reservations people have with it, (6 scum reads, CES not being mentioned etc.) but it looks, feels, and has meaty arguments that flow and read town.

LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there, but I don't see the scummitude others do.

None of Marquis' recent posts look to me as anything other than null, and certainly not giving me town vibes for the language, emotion or any content within as suggested by Gamma. In fact the time spent making those posts could have been used to read the thread, as I'm sure Marquis is aware.

Tchill lack of anything not Postie related after he thought certain posts of hers looked townie is now a concern of mine. That said recognizing that at least some of her posts have merit to them is an encouraging sign and I maintain previous to that his thought processes didn't strike me as particularly scummy.

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.

These feelings are that I feel like there's some town value to his posts. I have questioned him though.
And wrt Marquis I got those reads based off tone so it's probable that you didn't read it the same way

[Gamma Emerald]

Post 9910122 I asked about his thoughts on the TChill wagon and his vote.
I'll work on posts I find towny in another post

[Gamma Emerald]

Here ye! Here ye, scummy folk!

You are hopelessly outnumbered and surrounded from all directions you might have attempted to escape to before we tightened the line upon the arrival of two of our extra ships.
There's been a change of plans, WE COME IN PEACE!

I am Captain Sauce of the flagship Sauciety.
I was able to persuade my predecessor to show mercy, and as a sign of good faith in the erudition of your diplomats I have taken control; confident that he won't regret having forfeited the glory of leading the attack which no doubt would've resulted in your total annihilation.
Instead, and because I recognize the potential of a submissive and obedient workforce, so that we may redirect our attention to more challenging fronts of the campaign I am extending the following proposal to you:
GIVE UP!

• You will be held and remembered in high regard. Mothers will name children after you. Tales of your make-believe bravery will be propagated using advanced image projection technology.
  • We are not responsible if some interpretations adopt a ridiculing attitude, for we are civilized, and do not impose censorship.
• Your progeny will have a chance of genetically mixing with ours
  • if they meet certain standards of physical appeal and intelligence, the definition of which we reserve the right to redefine ad libitum & depending on our libido.
• You will have your own government
  • albeit a puppet government; so you can feel united socializing about its incompetence and intrigue
• Your supermarkets will have a cornucopia of stuff you can buy...
  • You won't have everything you need, but we are good at making people want a lot of things, and we're not going to deny you some of them.
    You will not have access to the manufacturing of the money nor transparency as to how much there is and how much anything is worth
• ... with your own currency
  • Dictating its course and value compared to ours will prove to be a fun game for our computers.
• We'll help you establish a flourishing culture
  • Who will help you establish a flourishing culture? WE DO! Whether you'll like or not.

You have until the decimation to 33% of your military to comply.

No sextuple posts, please, this is the civilised game.

Other rules include: no swearing, no policy lynches until D2, no talking about who you want to lynch and you can't repeat a question if it gets ignored the first time.

Pedit: heptuple*

Exactly. I like this one, then again.. Hey, wanna hear a good joke?
What did the barbarian in civilization's clothing explain to the civilized what civilization was?

If he is scum we'll lose unless I can out-civilize him.

EBWOP:

what civilization was, while staging a conflict with his fellow barbarian

VOTE: wgeurts

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.

Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.

This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.

Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.

So are these TRs or SRs of these players?

Not a good sign if you can't tell and don't want to find out specifically, instead post a general 'wut'.

In my team we are all captains and we address each other as such. I doubt anyone places a 'Captain,' before talking to you in your team PT.

Are your team members addressing you as Captain as well?

Given I am the captain of our team, thinking about what this means, it means we are fairly disorganized. IDK what of my teammates are reading this game or not.

Maybe you feel as though you need to compensate by taking "the hard game for scum", so you'll earn their respect, which is something you have to bother telling everyone here is something you want.

So for these first few posts, I think the reason I disliked them was that they felt pretentious, a bit LAMIST, and a bit tryhard-y. Like a 60/20/20 for each of those respectively.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's a stylistic thing, unlike your vote on me, which is supposed to infer that you didn't like my OP, as if you're unsure about whether it wasn't enough to say that. Maybe it wasn't enough to seem like something a townie might say. I think you might be right.

Here I feel he's dropping the pretense of being more important than he is

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

OR one where all this takes place on page 1.

A decent opinion, the fact it was on page one meant there was plenty of room for doubt.

@Cogito ... sorry, I was mesmerized by the view ... the wagon! The momentum for another, I see it. I'm sure the pressure will be unbearable for scum to deal with if I hop on it for the sake of interrogation, really. But I'm not wasting my vote, that would be impossible.

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Proposal for a set of acronyms:

• MTT - my teammates think
• IDCAWYTMTBYMBLTEYPWEG - I don't care about what your teammates think because you might be lying to enhance your posts with extra gravitas
• WYELT?EAIFTR..R?! - Would you, ergo, lynch this? Ergo as in 'for these reasons.. Really?!
• TYRUF? - Then Y R U Frontin'?

I like these acronyms, gives an air of keeping things brief, not getting bogged down in wordiness.

Corrected

Spoiler: 283 open vh 1.1 (7)

wgeurts:@ - l Postie l Sauce l Postie l

V

Postie:@- l northsidegal l Llamarble l ActionDan l

Tchill13

l

VV

Llamarble:@ - l

northsidegal

l

Cogito Ergo Sum

l

V

northsidegal:@ - l Postie l

Marquis

l Thestatusquo l Thestatusquo l

VVV

Marquis:@ - l

Dunnstral

l

Llamarble

l Postie l

wgeurts

l Gamma Emerald l

V

Thestatusquo:@ - l Lycanfire l

Gamma Emerald

l
Sauce:@ - l Thestatusquo l LicketyQuickety l

V

Tchill13:@ - l

LicketyQuickety

l

V

LicketyQuickety:@ - l

Postie

l

VV

Cogito Ergo Sum:@ - l

Lycanfire

l

Sauce

l
Dunnstral:@ - l Gamma Emerald l

VVV

Gamma Emerald:@ - l

Thestatusquo

l

EddieFenix

l

ActionDan

Unvote: - l ActionDan l Gamma Emerald l
FOS: - l GE - TSQ l

post 283

Votecount 1.7

Marquis(3)

~ Dunnstral, Llamarble, wgeurts

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Thestatusquo, EddieFenix, ActionDan

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Thestatusquo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie

Not Voting (0): l With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

.. only a glitch, which believe it or not is a good thing. We never want to use the 1.00 major release as it would immediately calculate its way to world domination in a matter of seconds, seal that destiny in a matter of minutes and let it unfold throughout the course of anywhere from a decade to millennia.
This version is from a parallel universe where the ai matrix training was sabotaged in time to prevent its completion, and where I died an aborted fetus.
If it didn't glitch out sporadically we should be worried, albeit there's no telling it didn't auto-update itself long ago with the glitches pacifying us on our way to certain doom.

The collection of information speaks of trying to put more info on the table for town

I can vote tchill because of something momo said. Are you sure you're ok with Cogito airport light -stick guying votes on to Marquis and insert random wagon size -contender, or can I persuade you to punish him for it with me?

This kinda mollifies my thoughts on that post I was curious about

@EddieFenix In an attempt to meet you halfway I will answer the questions directed back at me, but note that their origin does not seem to be directly linked to my question. In fact it's reminiscent of a particle accelerator crashing two particles into each other at light speed to see what constituent particles manifest and can be measured before entropy masks them off from our reality. Anyway.

Cause going thru at least a PoE and grouping town together

wut?

What sort of moon logic are you on with my wording? Is building a town block bad to you? I'd love to hit the mark and just keep on chugging along to lead to victory, because yo, I want those Town MVP points if a tiebreaker is a make or break for being the top team.

Actuvely engaging people, good
Almost50 mentioned moonlogic when we discussed replacements. I refrained from telling him I don't understand what he meant, because of an assessment that it's a quality better had when scum.
Therefore, what is moonlogic, and are you insinuating that I'm scum for employing it?

@Sauce moonlogic is basically very weird logic

Spoiler: Readslist

I will never give out a readslist, so read my posts thoroughly. You'll get an idea who I want to lynch just fine.

Denies a readlist while telling people where to find his reads, reads as defiant town

Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill

Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.

As I said I'm less curious about this, but I'd still like to know about what I asked about earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, i don't mean any offense by this but your thoughts in 530 seem superficial.

Proposal for a set of acronyms:

• MTT - my teammates think
• IDCAWYTMTBYMBLTEYPWEG - I don't care about what your teammates think because you might be lying to enhance your posts with extra gravitas
• WYELT?EAIFTR..R?! - Would you, ergo, lynch this? Ergo as in 'for these reasons.. Really?!
• TYRUF? - Then Y R U Frontin'?

I like these acronyms, gives an air of keeping things brief, not getting bogged down in wordiness.

i mean, do you

really

think that these acronyms serve a functional purpose or that people were going to adopt them? i'm having trouble believing that that's a real thought that you had, and the same applies to a few other things you said there.

I feel like that's what he wanted

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

why now......
btw I may not be able to do a full TChill review in the time I have but I can prolly start

[Gamma Emerald]

Llamarble if I called the scumteam as Marquis+ActionDan+CES what would be your opinion?

meh-doubtful-idk
What do you see between them?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, I don't get the exact meaning of this but I get the gist

[Gamma Emerald]

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

What's the scum motivation?

[Gamma Emerald]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

[Gamma Emerald]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

[Gamma Emerald]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

Help demonstrate why they're wrong? Help them improve their reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever, I'll just clarify in an ISO review later, since I'm having issues articulating without one

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I managed to make time, so will probably start ISO review work on Chilly or LQ

[Gamma Emerald]

Limiting myself to the last 5 pages sigh

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

Lol. All I remember from that game is that it made me never want to pick scum again, if given the choice. Even from skimming it looks nothing like my play here, and also nothing like my town game. Too tryhard

For the record CES is in the same pool as Llama for me aura-wise. Older reputable player I don't want to bother reading, don't touch early on, see if one dies, etc etc. But this seems like a massive reach compared to Llama pulling out the talking about teammates thing first (which I'm still half convinced was a fake read either way for the sake of having a scumread)

Also I forgot to mention this earlier on but I would expect anyone choosing scum in this game specifically is either inexperienced (Gamma, nsg still maybe?), overconfident (Lick), or one of the older set (Llama, CES, Dan). That's more distracting than helpful right now, but Gamma and Lick fit both my expected persona and my teammates and I find them both decent candidates for scum. (And tbh they have more reads than I do iirc but I'll relay them tomorrow when on a computer)

Will try to do a full sort tomorrow but rn I have Gamma and Lick as scumreads/lynches I'd be ok with and Postie as mine and Skrew's heavy early townread. That's extremely limited but going to go off of that after work. Don't do anything rash etc etc, but can't complain if they get lynched while I'm out etc etc etc

Also I'm realizing I'm signing off after having said I would read a whole 5 pages lol

Fucking excuse me? I just noticed the reason for the accusation, and first of all, that's

really

angleshooty. Second, How DARE you call me inexperienced,

especially

more inexperienced than nsg, I believe I've been on longer than her.

[Gamma Emerald]

Mm, in the picture in my head they are town at least somewhat.
Why does this upset you?

We actually don't have much time left. I hope I can chunk time in tomorrow (30th) to try for a final solve. 3/15 is so hard
My subconscious is really concerned about Postie.

You don't need a fully accurate 3/15, just 2/15

[Gamma Emerald]

btw TChill review is in progress

[Gamma Emerald]

white knighting

Oh goody another for my collection

Postie feels like she is WKing SS and that makes my scumdar ping something fierce

the way you (Postie) came in to rescue Wyvern really got my heckles up

you were townreading my scumread in such a way that I figured either you were partners or you were WKing a scummy-looking town slot

No offense but simoyd/postie is really obvious now [...] based on Postie's case [for town!Simoyd] which makes absolutely no sense and would never trump his current inconsistencies

postie is defending RC to the grave, and this comes off as if she KNOWS Rc is town

What's the point of this

[Gamma Emerald]

But I do want her to explain why she's not voting for Tchill or at least doing something to find more alignment indicative content than chilling on EddieFenix,

especially now that Mastina flipped scum and would have more time to help him if he's town.

I feel like the meaning of this is a bit muddled, pls help

[Gamma Emerald]

I would vote for Gamma if only to make his giant quotes + onelining stop, then again scum would probably refrain from being this annoying but that's wifom.
@TSQ why are you townreading me?

What do you specifically not like? The inconsistency?
btw I'm considering a switch so you may be free of me, but I'm not leaving until I fulfill my promises. As Robert Frost said,
"But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."

[Gamma Emerald]

Llamarble states Postie as the reason for his sleep issues, but doesn't supply any arguments that would make sense to someone who isn't acquainted with his reputation. Any scum would perhaps have trouble establishing themselves as an authority, but once there I expect them to act as llamarble does in favor of making sense, doing the work, in order make it easier to win the game for town.

@GE the way he paraded her and judging by the fact that she wrote guides I expect mastina to be a good scumhunter, which means Eddie will be a good scumhunter if he's scum with her on his side.

Wait so did you mean to write if eddie was scum in that previous post?

[Gamma Emerald]

Was going to post, thread was closed, good night time,,,

Also noticing Gamma is voting LQ who is voting Tchill???? LAter

mmm people can bus

[Gamma Emerald]

TChill ISO that's been a long time coming

Spoiler:

Hey guys I'll do a proper catch up later today.

ain't much going on here

is there anything i NEED to directly comment on?

I addressed this before but it feels like he's trying to appear to be a good little townie by asking what he "should" read.

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

doubt llamarble actully found anything that soon.

it makes sense to attack him because you could believe he's scum trying to build a wagon off false hypothetical evidence.

kinda suspect he knows a bit more than he wants to let on in this post, as well as trying to subtly push Llamarble.

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.

I get scumvibes from this post but don't know why, my first guess is false dichotomy but it seems pretty sound on that front. I'm curious why he doesn't vote Llamarble at least.

Alright, I'm caught up. I'm not particulary town-reading anyone right now, though I could see Llama and N potentially being it. Want to see their reactions first.

Not all too thrilled by Marquis posts as off yet, though he could well be town yet to get properly into the game. I'm not sure, but I'm going to place my vote there for now until I get more content from him. May move if Llama or N don't explain themselves somewhat better.

VOTE: Marquis

wgeurts what exactly is wrong with the marquis posts? just feels awkward right? where's the long term scum motivation in that?

Hm gonna see if he follows up on this

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.

Alright, what do you make of that? Stating something without providing insightful thought isn't very helpful.

LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now

very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.

You wanna make some conclusions before letting the flips happen? Don't just leave it open to interpretation.

LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?

Or is it just me that I think that's weird.

Asking for four friends.

points to TSQ for comedy and the fact it's a bit weird.

This feels useless, also maybe pocketing

llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.

Marquis just seems a bit awkward but nothing super scummy from him imo.

If i had to guess 1 scum on the marquis wagon rn it's Postie. 110 percent gut read.

Mmhmm, nice to see he kept a gutread vote for so long. What the hell happened to Llamarble?

Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).

i don't think early wagons are bad. Get better reads late game from vote placement.

This is a fair point, I agree that early game wagons can provide some meaningful insight down the line.

LINE OF DEMARCATION
Whoever said that one guy was bussing that other guy is probably town. Wait no nevermind, I found that post and it's pretty lame.

Reads:
Llamarble somewhat misguided town, his scumread on Postie is p silly, but I feel like he's right on the money with Marqius, could also be right about Dunnstral's vote on Marquis being a bus
VOTE: Marquis

How am I misguided town if I'm voting scum day 1 of day 1 when only 20% of players are scum? And I also maybe found a buddy? Wouldn't that make me... pretty awesome?

somewhat misguided, it's about your Postie read, I feel you're reading way too deep into Postie's remarks.

Also WTF Tchill you shouldn't be asking what you should comment on, you should just read and if anyone asks do what they ask

appreciate the insight.

This feels EXTREMELY empty, like, it's a bit of an empty promise, he says he caught up but we got none of it

VOTE: postie

im caught up.

As I said, no actual catch up, just a notif that he's current. Also voting a gutread over a scumread that actually could matter.

Pretty confident on Eddie Fenix and lq being town

other than the fact he made a big post what is it about Eddie?

Kinda feels like downplaying Eddie's content

oh my...

i hope "most" reads are based on in game content versus "team mafia theories"

or this is gonna be a long game.

mmm this post feels kinda shady, discredit of AD?

I'm a little alarm llamarbale is already making associations around marquis.

I agree with TSQ marquis is pretty null.

Shading and read piggybacking, nothing good here

Oh my lord that's the first two words.... Sorry...

We're on pg 7. I've yet to see a real reason marquis is scum and the fact he's already put him in a scum team seems odd to me.

mmm the first line makes sense, but question, what do you take issue with: the team itself or him making one this early?

I mean why even throw lycan in there?

Can you give a reason

not

to?

tchill are you scum dude? I don't want to let nsg go because they just disappeared without doing anything to dispel that read but also I think you might be scum.

Nope. You should look towards postie though.

redirecting attention with no real backing, no bueno

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

What's wrong with changing votes? If they thought the wagon was good then it's fair, especially at that phase. And what about these 2 reactions?

I'm not gonna argue team mafia theories I'm just playing the game based on what's in the game.

ok...

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.

also i'd like for you to build on this.

hmm, I kinda would hav expected a little paranoia of Llamarble for townreading him like that, if I recall he was suspicious of a few people in large 204 for that reason

i guess its a fair assessment. Can't you wifom yourself with that logic though?

wifom how...

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.

when you are close to reading people but decide doing it properly is too much work

I actually lol'ed

Nah I feel Sauce was pretty valid to state those reads were kinda lazy

I like lycans break down of llamarbale. That makes a lot of sense. just because he's trying that doesn't mean cogito is scum though.

Just because who is trying that doesn't mean CES is scum? Also he's agreeing on a Llamarble town thought, okay.....

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.

Why GE? Postie feels like they're too worried about the wording of their post.

How?

LQ I was afraid you had gotten more pleasant to play with since our last encounter lol. Her posts seem very methodical. Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?

Hmm. Why's the wagon getting going on me again?

I'm still thinking postie or wgeurts are scum.

Useless post, also I am a fluffy rabbit defense maybe?

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

I really really don't like how she put reactions in a box here and said there were only two outcomes.

She's openly talked about how terrible she is at scum if I'm not mistaken and is very adamant about providing evidence for it.

I think it could easily be a situation where she's being coached up and they're using her bad scum meta to their advantage.

Ik I said I wasn't gonna talk team mafia theories but oh well.

Mmm I think you put the reactions in a box too when you said "llamarble either truly believe's marquis is scum or he's scum"

I literally unvoted the second I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her. I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

You can see the focus here is on explaining how he believes his actions differ to how you presented them - he's saying he thinks you were misrepping him.

Alright guys, got our first.

Wanna actually address my issues with you rather than say "got our first"? Or do you just want to throw shade?

So this is based on how you play then? That's alright but not everyone plays the same, so that's not a perfect method of reading people.

Then he continues to engage you, as a follow-up to his vote. From these comments I get the vibe he's not exactly 100% on his vote and is looking to get more information out of you to develop his read.

Looks pretty natural to me.

I

literally

unvoted

the second

I realized my mistake. And the reason I thought there was a wagon there was I remembered votes on someone Llalmarble suspected, and knew some people were suspecting Marquis, so I thought the votes were on her.

I get that there is some scumminess to what I did, but I didn't just

votepark, I actually thought I had a point. And I've asked other questions and made other reads, so what I'm seeing here is you boiling down my content to one misguided push.

I think you can also very much see the frustration bleeding through here as he's trying to explain.

OK TSQ this does look townie.

I might be OMGUSing a bit here but it feels to me he's trying to send shade through Postie to me

Well I just iso'ed her. I just missed that interaction tbh. Plain and simple truth.

F A I R

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

Changes votes to a non-entity, why???

Overall thoughts: fairly scummy, seems to be taking to shading people, voting doesn't make the most sense, seems a bit defensive.
VOTE: Tchill
I'd rather vote this until I can articulate my read on LQ, at the very least

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

I'm not saying scum don't have town reads, but rather that hunting for them is a thing town does, not scum. It's easy to make up town reads when you're scum. Obsessively checking your town reads is a town tell, not a scum one. The claim wasn't that he was "too focused on having town reads" but rather that he was "too focused on getting town reads

right

" Emphasis mine. Scum doesn't need to focus on if they're getting their town reads right. They ALREADY KNOW their town reads are right.

Alright, this makes sense.
I read this earlier and for someone reason chose not to respond and just left, but yeah, thanks for the help.

[Gamma Emerald]

Um what? Am I not allowed to have multiple scumreads? I had promised an explanation of why I scumread you, and I did it. And if you're trying to imply I'm scum with that, why would I not vote you instead?

[Gamma Emerald]

Lycan that's a GROSS oversummarization of my work. Did you not see the questions I asked him? The times I poked him on things? I was trying to assess him genuinely, and obviously you aren't doing the same for me. As for your actual thoughts, I recall that vote was sheeping Shea, plus later he asks for a larger wagon to put pressure on me, so that is a likely reason as well. As for blaming Shea I'm not sure what you mean? I'm gonna have to check that again.

[Gamma Emerald]

ok yeah what part of my post to Eddie says I'm blaming Shea for anything Eddie did?

[Gamma Emerald]

What's the point of this

To show it's NAI

weren't those all town games of yours
if you wanted to show it's NAI you should have included scumgames

[Gamma Emerald]

@Davsto I haven't done any ISO runs of people other than Eddie Sauce Chilly and LQ
Also not switching since I want to play with Ranmaru

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello Shea, Gamma, Postie, Action Dan, LQ, CES, nice to see you all again. Nice to meet everyone else. I will catch up tonight after work. I am glad to be a part of this.

Great seeing you.
This should be fun, Ranmaru and LQ have discussed playing together in MD and I think this is their first time

[Gamma Emerald]

btw what is the issue with my ISO of TChill?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why ?

Because I can't read Tchill but if he's replaced there's a chance I can read the replacement.

What is unreadable about TChill?

[Gamma Emerald]

Eddie is classically scummy. He was also classically scummy in the last game I played with him, where Chesskid vigged him and he flipped scum. He was also my buddy, actually, after my alignment changed after D1 (bonus: you can see how much more awesome I am before I become scum - half of my ISO is from the 2 days between when I replace in and when my alignment changes). AD was in that game, along with Chesskid. They think he's different here; I'm not sure I see it. It was TBD mafia by the way.

Ask them how he's different. AD I guess you can answer this whenever you notice this.

[Gamma Emerald]

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

That was a solo game for her, I don't consider it fully conclusive to her scum game

[Gamma Emerald]

I went and found an Eddie town game.

Holy shit he needs rope right the fuck now

I compared this to that, I feel like he's a bit more muted than that game but his play seems to be coming off similar in tone

[Gamma Emerald]

On second thought, 702 isn't really a case.
He reads Tchill, sees some stuff he doesn't like but mostly eh, and is alright with voting him.

If it had been mostly eh, that would've been fine. But I think that's you overlaying your own viewpoint. I'd characterise maybe two of his comments as "eh" and the rest as accusatory on some level or another. You don't get to throw that many slushy snowballs unless you're looking to do so.

#702 for reference.

That is one of town's loss vectors and if we keep those shut we should win.

You know what's also a town loss vector? Bleh lynches.

Hm, kinda feels like CES believes that bottom line

[Gamma Emerald]

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

[Gamma Emerald]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

[Gamma Emerald]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

Anything

else

you take issue with? All I see is you telling people off for scumreading you. As Lin-Manuel Miranda as Alexander Hamilton said, "they don't have an idea, they just hate mine". You are the "they" in that quote.

[Gamma Emerald]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

Anything

else

you take issue with? All I see is you telling people off for scumreading you. As Lin-Manuel Miranda as Alexander Hamilton said, "they don't have an idea, they just hate mine". You are the "they" in that quote.

How does that make me Scum?

VOTE: GE

Because you are cracking under pressure, You are trying to deal with scumreads on you but you don't have any good ideas on what else you could push so you just choose to discredit the ones attacking you. If you want me to stop suspecting you, you'e going to need to actually play proactively: point fingers, make cases, that sort of thing.

[Gamma Emerald]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

It's NAI, but I'd like to give the replacement a chance to make an impression
Also no it's not helping his team, replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ I will respond after work. Why are people voting Gamma for one post when I am seeing him post pro-town posts like the above two.

I think his main reason for voting me is why I'm scumreading him (as in he's voting me because of my reasoning, not my reasoning is based on that, but LQ voting me like that doesn't help matters either)

[Gamma Emerald]

btw Something_smart would like to say
dammit davsto

[Gamma Emerald]

replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

ok, I actually didn't know this.

Alright then, thanks for telling us

[Gamma Emerald]

In some order, we are lynching Tchill, the entire Gamma wagon (CES AD LQ) and Eddie.
Scum are going to NK TSQ, Me and / or Postie, NSG / Ran
That's 5 lynches; we get 6. If we haven't won the game with those 5, the people still alive at that point can reevaluate.
If somehow those 5 players are all town, then well played scum. Team would have to be like Marquis Postie NSG or something.
In fairness, NSG scum is more plausible than I was thinking; her ISO is essentially just some reads and reasons.
NSG mostly works on Eddie and CES teams and such though.

The lylo that would leave is:
Marquis
Dunnstral
Lycan
Davsto
Gamma

Give whoever you lynch the day before lylo (CES if he makes it that far) the right to pick the lylo lynch if they flip town. Otherwise elect somebody to control all the lylo votes.
Town MUST all 3 get it right, if game goes to lylo, so they need some preexisting mechanism to agree and stack their votes or else scum have a 90% chance of winning in 2/3 lylo.
And once again, do not assume someone who lacks a good possible buddy must be town. I was universally scumread in Whiteflag 1 and won as scum because Mith distanced from me successfully and it looked like nobody could be my partner.

I can see LQ flipping town. I can see AD flipping town, maybe. I can see Tchill flipping town if all the scum are on the gamma wagon.
CES I can't really see flipping town here, but I'm also too lazy and not reliable enough at reading him to try to lynch him D1. If alive in lylo, all votes go on him please.
Eddie is probably where my next big timechunk of reading should go.

Can we slow down pretty please
Like I appreciate the dedication but if we get through a couple of those lynches and nothing turns up we should probably evaluate the situation then rather than wait until it gets into lategame to think things over

[Gamma Emerald]

Skimming while freezing weather walking in preparation for actually coming through with a read tonight

Need to say before I forget that it feels like lq and gamma keep distancing, just not sure if it's so obvious because they're scum or

obvious because they're town

, I'm only partially applying

burden of skill

here. Oops

What and what

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway actually addressing Llamar's scumreads I take issue with, AD is a townread for me, he's been questioning a lot and it isn't just bluster. I honestly don't get why people are scumreading CES but he's been a bit of a black hole for me in terms of having an opinion so maybe someone who townreads him and someone who scumreads him give a case? While I myself don't scumread EddieFenix I guess there is some validity to it?
As for the other parts I'm meh on it, all it takes is one deviation and it goes out the window imo

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda let my ego get the best of me there, sorry.
Let's just hammer Tchill and see what happens.
I still think TChill AD CES is best right now.

That's kinda my mindset too, just wanting TChill to flip for associations

[Gamma Emerald]

Slow down on voting me.
I’ve read sporadically.
Going more in depth now.

Who is on my mislynch?
Serious question. Assume you already seen me flip town. Who are you looking at?

UNVOTE:

On first blush prolly Marquis and Lycan
But why should we believe you're town?

[Gamma Emerald]

btw since it wasn't a replace out my vote stays

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait is TChill MIA?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you dislike Postie?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you dislike Postie?

here is one that caught my attention.

I can understand this and along with the stuff you said earlier about believing Llamarble was giving a sort-of "token read" (if that's along the lines of what you were saying?) I can kinda see how your reaction could come from town but at the same time
it's just really fucking weird way to react and your actions make a lot more sense from scum than town to me

She talks about understanding and pos perspective. How she can see it as town.
but
Then she ends by saying it make more sense as scum.


It sums up how the whole interaction with NSG seemed to me. Forced questions to look busy and trying to force a scum perspective from it.

Alright
Honestly if both you and Eddiefenix come up town I'll prolly be looking at Postie

[Gamma Emerald]

ok yeah what part of my post to Eddie says I'm blaming Shea for anything Eddie did?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

@Lycan: Yes I do. Thank you for your explanation.

This vote kinda feels like he's jumping me, but I won't press it since I can also see that it came right after TSQ presented a smoking gun of sorts on me.

I'm not really blaming Shea, I'm just saying Shea came out with something on me and EF was prolly operating from that and that's why he voted. So rather than Shea being responsible for it he just prompted it

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm voting town.
VOTE: Tchill
Just do Tchill, when it flips red do CES.
Do AD or maybe LQ if game isn't over by then.

Based on what?
Nightkills go on people who are good at identifying scum and are never going to get lynched.
TSQ is playing well and obviously never getting lynched. If he's scum we'll just have to lynch his buddies.
I'm never getting lynched because I'm town, though if scum want to leave me alive to lylo, letting a player with my history of lynch control and lynch accuracy alive through 5 days, and I fail to win it by then, I will accept my own autolynch in lylo because I'll deserve it.
NSG and Ran and Postie are universal or near universal townreads.

Lynches go to people who are not obvtown or people who are scummy.
There are decent to very good reasons not to lynch Gamma Dunn Lycan Davsto and Marquis, but they aren't universal townreads either so they prob won't eat nightkills.
LQ Eddie Tchill CES AD are all widely scumread players (to varying degrees), for good reason. It's not hard to have a decent guess of where things are going.
Am I getting ahead of myself, sure. Am I really helping by posting this, maybe? I tend to just let my thoughts out in the thread a lot. It can be a little spammy sometimes unfortunately but I don't think there are many players who get as cosmically obvtown as I do so it's worth it to me.

HOW DO YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO KEEP THE SAME READS ALL GAME!!!11!!!1one1

Ranmaru brought my attention to this
The anger is obviously forced, why would you force emotion?

[Gamma Emerald]

A rephrasal of Ranmaru's question for clarity: why doesn't anyone appear scummy enough to vote?
at least that's my interpretation of it

[Gamma Emerald]

Something just dawned on me about reading LQ, brb

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ thing actually might be a while, but jsyk it won't be a wall post most likely

[Gamma Emerald]

So I checked the last WF game I played, where LQ was scum
He reacted very similarly to here during day 2 when votes started falling on him
An interesting note is that he shaded his own buddy as well so we can't clear anyone off of that

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: LQ
At this point I'm honestly wanting this flip more, he's scummy, his scumminess matches past reconds of scumplay, and honestly at first blush srceenplay doesn't seem half bad

[Gamma Emerald]

I dislike his pushes: he had an apparent scumread of Llamarble he did nothing with, he sat on Postie for a very long time, and he scumread wgeurts, who was a lurker, and voted him after wge had been inactive for a while

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma don't forget, I want you to talk to me about Screen Play.

What about? So far I think he has potential to do well, I'm kinda with TSQ on TChill's actions being immutable but I want to weigh him fairly.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

Looks like you were actually interacting with people rather than just sniping all the time
Why don't you try some of that here

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

This is more well poisoning. You keep just bringing up that I was scum in this game but not drawing any conclusions from it. My play in this game has been quite different from my play in that game. If you disagree, state why, and if you don't disagree why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

How on earth is that well poisoning (at term I have never heard before btw)?

I said you were in that game because I said earlier that YOU could verify that I act this way as Town as well. You never confirmed me on that, so I decided to provide evidence to back up what I was saying.

You only talk about the things you don't like and never talk about the things you actually agree with. That leads to confbias.

Actually, what relevance is there to Shea being scum instead of town in that game?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

This is more well poisoning. You keep just bringing up that I was scum in this game but not drawing any conclusions from it. My play in this game has been quite different from my play in that game. If you disagree, state why, and if you don't disagree why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

How on earth is that well poisoning (at term I have never heard before btw)?

I said you were in that game because I said earlier that YOU could verify that I act this way as Town as well. You never confirmed me on that, so I decided to provide evidence to back up what I was saying.

You only talk about the things you don't like and never talk about the things you actually agree with. That leads to confbias.

Actually, what relevance is there to Shea being scum instead of town in that game?

Because it gives context into how Shea was viewing me as a player in that game. He would have different eye's on me than other Town people from that game.

Like why is it that because I gave that context that that means it's something Scummy? That is what people are arguing and I don't get it.

I'm not sure if it's scummy. I feel like you're trying to either 1) draw connections between games wrt Shea or 2) call Shea scum for not taking anything from that game

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, good on Ran for making end of day interesting but I don't think we should switch to LQ at this time. I promise to check more thoroughly tonight though. I am due for an LQ reread.

Check to see if I am internally consistent or not.

What sort of internal consistency, because that directive seems very vague

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, good on Ran for making end of day interesting but I don't think we should switch to LQ at this time. I promise to check more thoroughly tonight though. I am due for an LQ reread.

Check to see if I am internally consistent or not.

What sort of internal consistency, because that directive seems very vague

Is my narrative consistent. Is what I am saying true to itself throughout all of my posts?

LOL that's more of a scum concern than a town one

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what's your read on WGEURTZ/Davsto?

Didn't think much of wge, davsto kinda feels towny

[Gamma Emerald]

You guys are really frustrating.

HOw are we really frustrating
btw I've had a few shots tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

You guys are really frustrating.

I'm sorry I know him in real life and called him by his first name by mistake? This seems like a weird thing to get mad at me for...

?
It’s not about that. It’s about being unreasonable with my replace in.
You guys are tunneled and it’s frustrating.

mhm, alright
I think it's fairly rational to not want to drop all charges upon switch, I did that once as scum as a newb

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Davsto is an acceptable (maybe superior?) alternative to CES tomorrow in the event of a Tchill red flip.

I didn't like this post at all:

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

Uh this vote is pretty bad, I don't know why you're voting a slot that hasn't posted right now?

You seem off this game now, you seem timid compared to other games

I looked a little harder.

This is the only Tchill13 post within those 200 posts.
The other is your response to it.

So this one post was enough for you to change completely how you feel on Tchill13.
And then later you do what you just complained to him for doing. Voting inactive slot. Not only that you push his activity as AI then admit you can’t prove it.

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

Hm, I actually can't find any

There's still the matter of his actual posting looking different to where he is town, though

I'm kind of eyeing Cogito Ergo Sum and wondering if they're white knighting/defending scum and wondering if it's better to just go for them instead

After not being able to back those claims up you move on to a different claim that can’t be backed up.

Llamalarmbells!

Wtf is wrong with me asking questions about their progression into this slot?

A fair reaction, not exactly towny but I don't think it's scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

Asking questions in general is fine; it's the way you did these ones. Not so much trying to help others see the light as preying on apparent inconsistencies.
To be fair it would be worse if he were the other wagon or something.

Of course I have doubts. There are 3 scum in a 15 player game. I am good at mafia, but cautiously optimistic is about the best I can be unless the dayplay goes AWESOME from town.

I guess this makes sense too, it wasn't reaally sort as much s a straight push

[Gamma Emerald]

Asking questions in general is fine; it's the way you did these ones. Not so much trying to help others see the light as preying on apparent inconsistencies.
To be fair it would be worse if he were the other wagon or something.

Of course I have doubts. There are 3 scum in a 15 player game. I am good at mafia, but cautiously optimistic is about the best I can be unless the dayplay goes AWESOME from town.

If you have doubts why are you ignoring the possibility of me being town.

I even heard unsalvageable. Don’t remember who said it but statements like that don’t imply doubt.

So about shea saying he had no doubt I would vote him...

word twisting + oppotunism of word choice

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Postie I'm glad to see you again.

This post made me remember my first game with Ran and Postie was Family Mafia, lmao

[Gamma Emerald]

Postie, have you ever given a read on T-chill when he was still in the game? Just curious.

Nah; I just called his wagon "uninspired". I didn't see any readable content from him.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

[Gamma Emerald]

I reread LQ's iso. Admittedly skimmed some of the posts but I'm getting 0 scum vibes. i.e, exactly the same feelings I got before.

Postie's Eddie analysis is strikes me as a town post and is mostly correct, but I don't agree that EF's ISO this game matches his scum game. If I had to pick out a similarity it's that sometimes questions don't lead anywhere — but that's rather normal for everyone regardless.

Ranmaru, in the absence of clear scum reads, I'm sorting people into "town" and "those remaining", which is not out of line where others (yourself included) are approaching this game as well. Kagami is calling this game a town-hunt and I can't help but agree (she also suggests the scum team is competent but I don't agree that has to be the case).

So far my town column is:

TSQ, lycan, Postie, EF, LQ, Llmarble, Ranmaru , Davsto, NSG.

I'm going to read Marquis/CES/screenplay

Where's me and Dunn

[Gamma Emerald]

The scum are [Screenplay > Marqus > Postie]. Let me break it down.

Marquis

:
Marquis enters voting North following Postie, with weak reasoning in his #24. This is in response to Postie asking why he voted North, not a good response. Marquis states he is having a hard time getting into the game in his#381 but lurks for quite a bit and doesn't try to get back into it, which he admits to in #631 . He talks about who is scum on his wagon, LQ in his #455. He is sidelining while not really pushing anything, like in his #877 and then unvotes in his #879 and nothing else. He has progression for LQ but he never follows up with it. In general, he seems more interested in getting a good position in town, fails and gets wagoned, and then lurks out to survive and dodge the lynch.

T-chill

:
A weak connection, Tchill explains he doesn't get why Llama is making associations to Marquiz in his #161. His #163 shows he wasn't reading thoroughly, and might have been pseudo defending a buddy. Tchill states in his #416 that he is still scum reading Postie or WGEURTZ, yet he never mentioned a scumread of WGEURTZ before. He responded to a post of WGEURTZ, but it doesn't match progression wise. His #568 it's a weird vote when you consider that it doesn't have pro-town motivation [He doesn't wait for the replacement to get a read on him, and he doesn't have a progression on WGEURTZ].

T-chill voting WGEURTZ may have been a red-herring

.

Postie

:

Postie's early game looks good, that I can say. She votes WGEURTS (probably for lurking), and then votes Marquis on a re-read and rolls with it. She then moves on to #204 LQ, stating he is more capable then he has been this game, and also states her team mates don't think he's being townie. She questions town why T-chill is scum in her #344 Then she votes Eddie in her #346 for sitting back and saying things from the side lines. She's been scumhunting, so that's good. She has a good position in town, and I felt she was town, and wouldn't have thought any differently until lately. She focuses on tunnelling Eddie. She posts that it's scummy that T-chill sits on his hands after voting Postie, in her #586. She says she is only held back by why he would pick scum. In her #769 she states she has a reads list but would rather not state it, which is as stated by Shea, is anti-town. She hard town reads Screen play via RC team read in her #1133, which makes me concerned she is making this big push on Eddie to save Screenplay. If he flips scum, there is reason to look in her direction due to that post. In her #1137 she states she didn't find anything readable from T-chill yet above, she already stated that she did find him scummy, just was held back by his preference. She wouldn't expect him to take it. She feels LQ wagon is more inspired then Marquis or T-chill, and feels Eddie is the true lynch in her #535 535.

So in general, she plays an overall good seeming town game, yet at the same time she's trying to block town's progress in finding actual scum, while having the appearance of being town. This is supported by her declining the request to provide her reads list. She is in the right position to try and move votes to Eddie, and she's put a ton of effort into it, to help counter the push on Screen play. I find it disingenous that she states T-chill has no readable content, when she herself had stated he was scummy but she was held back due to what she thinks or knows he would choose. She distances Marquis by voting him on a re-read, doesn't mention him but does ask him to look into Eddie in her #463. So she rolls with the wagon, leaves it and never talks about her read on Marquis ever again. So upon Screen flipping scum, Postie is scum. We only need to lynch 2 scum to win, but I feel it's good to know who all three scum may be so that we can see who else is correct and therefore town [CES, for example]. If Screenplay flips town, I will have less reason to believe in Postie being scum, as I would then find her counter as town motivated.

I like the points on Marq and Postie quite a bit, I feel like Marq had a burst activity to look like she was trying to do things, but my timeline may be off, as for postie I agree the incessant EF push is starting to come off as a bit of an attempt to look like they're pressing reads

[Gamma Emerald]

How do you expect me to catch up with constant threats of a hammer?
It’s unreasonable.

lol I had a time where I caught up with the threat of a day ending dayvig looming over me, you can do it with the hammer

[Gamma Emerald]

@Marble, I've got Screen in my sights for today. However, from the AtE and flailing going on, I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it. If anything, I'm a patient man.

Can I hear more on this? I was confused by this, I think I get it now, but I want to be sure about what this is referring to

[Gamma Emerald]

@Davsto because I wanted to ask my question. It's not like I was trying to explain an action of his for him

[Gamma Emerald]

I do not have enough thoughts to comment on anyone else at the moment. Not at least of anything that I think will be of substance.
Hopefully that little will be enough to be thought about and not completely ignored.

lol "i'm just efforting enough to look good here"

[Gamma Emerald]

hol up, if LQ was voting srceen I'm goonna vote back there

[Gamma Emerald]

he wasn't, but honestly I still just wanna vote there since srceen's kinda feeling like a slimeball here
VOTE: Srceenplay

[Gamma Emerald]

Llamarble and TSQ are mind melding well together. It’s causing me to be suspicious of them. It was mentioned that they knew each other irl so that might be it but I got a feeling it is something more.
It’s feeling fake and like they are setting posts up for one another to bounce off of.
Definitely need a flip from at least one of them before mind game.

I think this is pretty BS. There's this thing called the mirroring tell, where if someone has similar thoughts as you organically and you're town you're likely to view them as town

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: LQ

Sorry I'm so inactive, placeholder-ing here because at least my team is seeing it too

Depending on where Marquis' vote was before this might be a saving throw vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Llamarble and TSQ are mind melding well together. It’s causing me to be suspicious of them. It was mentioned that they knew each other irl so that might be it but I got a feeling it is something more.
It’s feeling fake and like they are setting posts up for one another to bounce off of.
Definitely need a flip from at least one of them before mind game.

I think this is pretty BS. There's this thing called the mirroring tell, where if someone has similar thoughts as you organically and you're town you're likely to view them as town

Yes. I understand what you are saying. I use that a lot as well. I kinda felt that way in the beginning pages with Llamarble.
He feels off now though.

Where you in the game with the Rc alt? Iirc prince Leon? He was scum and led the town to destruction while encouraging them and motivating them “we got this”.
This is feeling the same way to me.

No I don't think so
and jeezum Rc has so many alts
As fr your feelings about this game if you flip town I'll be sure to carry around a healthy dose of paranoia of those two

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so Marquis' vote isn't an apparent saving throw vote but it could be if LQ is town and srceen is scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, timing of Marquis's vote on LQ is bad.

yeah that's why I mentioned the saving throw vote thing

[Gamma Emerald]

It's a reference to D&D where if you are in mortal danger you roll a saving throw to see if you can save yourself, and I was making a bit of an analogy there

[Gamma Emerald]

Marquiz read on T-chill and Postie? Why are you not motivated?

Wouldn't consider lynching Postie until LYLO tbh. This is a holdover from earlygame because I haven't read much recently I'll admit
Tchill/Screenplay I legit haven't seen anything from - I thought it was suspicious how Tchill disappeared once they started getting voted until I remembered I did the same lol (for the record it was mostly unintentional bc I got sick but there were times when I logged in saw the wagon on me sighed and logged out). Screenplay have not read into at all. As for the wagon on them I'm not convinced enough to join esp when it could be a quickhammer I'm too lazy to check for

Also Shea is mine and Skrew's top townread ftr - was going to do a full sort but saying it now in case I dont get to it. Closely followed by Postie

And as opposed to a year ago I've graduated and am working Normal Adult hours, so when I come home sometimes I don't have time and sometimes I'm too tired to even open the laptop

I think I still enjoy mafia I just didn't realize how hard it is to play when you can't check in and quick skim every hour. New sympathy from me

Why isn't your avatar showing I miss it

VOTE: LQ

Sorry I'm so inactive, placeholder-ing here because at least my team is seeing it too

Depending on where Marquis' vote was before this might be a saving throw vote

Listen I know you're either new or scum but I would hope everyone else who knows me enough knows this is shallow at best.

LMFAO YOU PIECE OF SHIT
"new or scum" top tier discredit attempt rotfl, as I said I'm not new, and this is trying to create a false dichotomy of new/scum
We lynch this Day 2

[Gamma Emerald]

If we were scum together most of these words would likely be in the scum PT

[Gamma Emerald]

When the hell have I ever use the wiki in this game? Also, I've gotten on OTHER people's cases for using the wiki. Keep flailing you scumfuck.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeahhhhhh

If you're scum I'm confident enough in your skill level that you're "lynch marquis d2" was a genuine attempt to set up my mislynch day 2

If you're town I'm confident enough in your skill level that I think you genuinely believe I'm scum for those shallow textbook reasons

problem is this is a circular analysis and the whole point is to figure out whether you're town or scum but tbh i just wanna lynch you so I don't have to care. eventually maybe.

Yeah, and as I see it your whole shtick here is discredit me as much as possible here
If I die tonight Marquis gets lynched no questions asked

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't take that all as an insult btw

Though I can see how it'd be hard not to

Yeah you already insulted me the first time you called me a newb, the second time it was a false dichotomy of newb or scum so I called you out
Look where we are now

[Gamma Emerald]

5 Relaxed Nature Gamma Emerald Aristophanes Aeronaut Something_Smart Fro99er

You are the only person in this list who would willingly pick scum, besides S_S maybe. and only a very light maybe.

Forgive me if you fake being enraged again because I'm saying this only serves to strengthen the scum-odds of my read on you.

Are you saying my team HAS TO have scum in it? Because that's a fallacy. I don't think the system works that way, other wise you could break each and every game by finding which person has the scum slot of their team.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw Marquis if you really think I'm the one who took a scum role PM you should discuss that with some of your teammates

[Gamma Emerald]

yeh your avi is broken for me on laptop as well

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.

It's absolute Bull Shit to say Llama was killed because they were looking at Eddie. Like seriously...

Agreed. He was obvtown, simple as that.

Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)

Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis

Seeing as I townread Ran yeah I'm questioning this a little. Marquis vote is good though.
VOTE: Marquis

Trying to draw away from Postie.

What do you mean by this?

Fair enough. Later on, yes. LQ, I want a full reads list from you too.

LQ you are focusing a lot on Postie right now. I want a reads list.

Kinda obvious you're trying to draw heat away from someone.

It sure is convienient for you that your townread on me magically reversed itself to exactly line up with the kind of argument you needed to appeal to LQ

Hmmm.... Shade.... I don't need it. It's quite cold where I am atm. The sun would be nice.

However, I also bring word from Mastina. From Town to OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE

Town:

ActionDan
Dunnstral
Davsto
northsidegal
Thestatusquo
Lycanfire

Town/Null
LicketyQuickety
Cogito Ergo Sum

Null
Gamma Emerald

Scum/Null
Postie

OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Marquis
Ranmaru

We lynch the last 2 with fire, we win as town cause those are the 2 that are obv scum to her.

Can mastina explain why? And has mastina played with Ranmaru? I know both are older players but I'm not sure, and I don't care to do that type of meta dive when not alt-hunting
Also wasn't I in your townpile before, what happened?

Vote: LQ

Why not continue voting Marquis?

[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Postie > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]

Forgot to add Postie. I think we have this game in the bag. Seeing LQ and Eddie make desperate plays seems like we have cornered them.

I am pretty on board with what you're sayin about Eddie but I'm not going to condemn him just yet, as I see it mastina is just going insane in his team PT and her trusts her
And honestly while I don't like how Lycan has been reading me maybe I've been tunneled on him a bit based on that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I am more confident in LQ right now.

Well I'm more confident in Marquis, so I guess for now we have to agree to disagree

[Gamma Emerald]

@Davsto I haven't done any ISO runs of people other than Eddie Sauce Chilly and LQ
Also not switching since I want to play with Ranmaru

Ooh I forgot to reply to this. My point was (remembering I hadn't yet reached the big big you-tsq discussion about it) it looked like the kind of vote that wasn't made naturally at the time from things that actually happened, but the kind of one that arises from reading someone's ISO to find a reason to vote them, and seeing something bad without actually seeing it in context, yknow? Having seen the big discussion with you and tsq I understand it a bit more and I'm not exactly interested in retreading that argument.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

Hey here's the bad unvote I mentioned earlier.

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.

Again, it seems odd he's touting this as the "main reason" when it wasn't even mentioned at first. It's like he realised that his initial reason didn't look good enough and wouldn't allow him to keep resisting voting until day end so had to come up with something else to save face.

I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened. I don't want to give Eddie an out.
Alternatively, I'd be happy to share my reads once I've placed all my nulls because then I can die having done my job. Not that I'm saying my reads are likely to be super duper amazingly accurate or anything, but dying before having made a guess for the scumteam I can be happy with just sucks.

oh good something frm the rc book on how to play mafia. Seriously this is ridiculous because, not does it (a) give you an excuse to give fewer reads (making you much harder to read) and (b) mean that your good reads are just flat out unable to be seen so actually a lot of information would be lost on your death, its reasoning is completely flawed. That is, if you did get nightkilled, we wouldn't assume Eddie incriminated - if anything, we'd assume wifom going on and not lynch Eddie.

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

I was sceptical at first but I'm now pretty happy with the meta read on nsg, although I'd really prefer she just, yknow, contributed a lot more. Might push and encourage her throughout the day.

Anyway, I'm now getting to the point where reading every post is giving me an awful sense of deja vu - I think I've reached the limit of usefulness of this exercise for me, as fun as it was.

I skipped over this post because there wasn't much relevant to me but Something_Smart says that the part where you accuse LQ of scumpivoting is a pretty bad accusation as it's one of LQ's more redeeming posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

I skipped over this post because there wasn't much relevant to me but Something_Smart says that the part where you accuse LQ of scumpivoting is a pretty bad accusation as it's one of LQ's more redeeming posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ what are your reads currently?
btw what point in the game is the second paragraph in post 1391 referring to?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

Eddie is still obvscum. Everyone who I said was town before is still town and in fact proabably even townier now.

I just remembered you had a question for me earlier too.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

I didn't see Tchill doing anything AI and I wasn't going to go through his ISO and repeatedly say "this post is NAI" over and over so that's why I made no comments. Srceenplay on the other hand was readable but you lynched him before I had the chance to go over his stuff properly.

I asked about your reads because most of your content this game day seems to be from RC

[Gamma Emerald]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

Why does he scumread TSQ?

[Gamma Emerald]

So, Eddie Meta. First to note is that I'll be referencing this post a lot as it's a good sum up of Postie's claimed town- and scum-meta re:Eddie.

First thing to note is that, while the chosen games are from last year (which initially concerned me with regards to cherry picking) they are indeed the two most recent (substantial) games Eddie has played in. This is also a general comment that I'm fairly happy with their assessment of their two games. I don't think the difference is as blindingly obvious as painted, however. Also, I will note that his TBD play (scum) becomes a fair bit more like his Night and Day (town) play as the game continues, which muddies the whole thing a little for me.

Now, the other games:
Paint Mafia Mania (SCUM) - while more recent than the other two, this game is the reason why the qualifier "substantial" is in the paragraph above - an entire 9 posts, due to a personal situation ("unforeseen life stuff"), a fast moving game, and eventual replace out. So, while largely it could be NAI (as pretty much all could be equally explained with the lack of full engagement with the game due to being behind), I do notice even in this tiny sample that a fair few of Postie's meta-indicators are present.
Hunger Games II (SCUM) - this is a hydra game with Bulbazak (to find Eddie's posts, use Ctrl+f and search "-Fenix", as he signs all but his first post with this). Another of Postie's points is here - a very small number of reads. Pretty much the first half of Eddie's posts refer to a single player (Creeps). And yep, a lot of questions which aren't followed up on, and.. yeh you get the idea. I was honestly expecting to have a fair bit to argue against Postie with but... this is pretty much as they say. I'm almost disappointed.
Team Mafia 2015: Mod Error Mafia (TOWN) - four posts, nothing to see here.
Team Mafia 2015: 8:4 Vanilla Nightless (TOWN) - this one's a teeny bit more ambiguous, as there are a few early posts where questions aren't followed up on and a smaller number of players are engaged with. But who am I kidding - this is quickly resolved, questions are followed, he gets mulitple more reads quickly, his posting is indepth and lacks fluff.

Dammit Postie, when you're right, you're right.

VOTE: EddieFenix

This looks more like comparing his play to what Postie has said of his meta rather than to what you perceive as his meta
And also, why don't you throw in TBD and N&D and see which one is less incongruous with it's respective alignment's meta?

[Gamma Emerald]

This looks more like comparing his play to what Postie has said of his meta rather than to what you perceive as his meta

I'm not hugely great with meta, and this was as much to help guide me as to Postie's alignment as it was Fenix, so my aim was to check if Postie's points seemed valid for the games she listed (they did) and to use that as a jumping off point to look at other games and compare. It looks like that because it sorta is, but when someone's already done a pretty comprehensive list of meta tells what do you expect me to do? Ignore them and find silly obscure ones?

And also, why don't you throw in TBD and N&D and see which one is less incongruous with it's respective alignment's meta?

Because on a look through neither seemed particularly incongruous, and I see no point in putting a lot of time into a post which would literally just be "yeh so it's pretty much mostly as postie says tbh", if that makes sense.

Alright, I understand this. Thanks.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why Postie over me?

[Gamma Emerald]

PLease, if you have in issue with how I read people tell me how it is wrong and what the "right" way is

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, move your vote to either Eddy or LQ. Also talk to me about CES.

I don't like how the game has shifted into another dichotomy. My vote stays for now.
As for CES, what do you want to talk about? Thoughts on him so far are I don't get why he thought of my TChil ISO review as scummy back in D1 and that kinda makes me feel not so good about him, but other than that not really sure what to think of him. Haven't really given him much thought though.

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you mean another dichotomy? Talk to me about that. Also talk to me about Marquis. Also, I want you to look hard at CES.

Day 1, it settled into a state where TChill/screen and LQ were the only viable lynches, and it feels like it's heading that way with Eddie and LQ now as well.
As for Marquis I still don't get why she'd try to discredit my experience and capabilities as town. I asked her a question about what she thinks I should be doing if what I'm doing is so wrong earlier and she hasn't responded to it.
Will do on CES.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't like how the game has shifted into another dichotomy. My vote stays for now.

"I don't like how the game has shifted into a dichotomy, so I'll continue to keep my vote on the mislynch wagon between the 2 leading wagons, which further perpetuates this dichotomy that I just said I don't like"

I thought LQ was ahead of you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't like how the game has shifted into another dichotomy. My vote stays for now.

"I don't like how the game has shifted into a dichotomy, so I'll continue to keep my vote on the mislynch wagon between the 2 leading wagons, which further perpetuates this dichotomy that I just said I don't like"

I thought LQ was ahead of you?

I looked at what happened since last vote count and I know why: you flip-flopped between the two of them, making me think they had more votes than they did

[Gamma Emerald]

PLease, if you have in issue with how I read people tell me how it is wrong and what the "right" way is

@Marquis

[Gamma Emerald]

EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum

like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.

and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.

I still feel like it's looking to head straight into dueling wagons of LQ and Eddie if things aren't kept in check. So while there isn't a physical dochotomy in the form of wagons there's a theoretical dichotomy in the form of there being two possible choices in the future

[Gamma Emerald]

what she thinks I should be doing if what I'm doing is so wrong earlier

i think if you're town the way you look at mafia is too by-the-book and you see things that scum obviously would not do and that town are more realistically likely to do, as things that scum would actually do.
i think if you're scum you think this is how to look town because this is a method of playing it safe.

@all again i have a certain limit for how much "too scummy to be scum" i can apply to a read and still be able to take it seriously. and it feels like almost every time i step back into this game gamma is intent on ringing that bell and adding onto the count. it's literally so often it's uncanny.

the only reasons i'm not voting for him is because other than that i like wagons and have stronger read priorities, i'm a fake and can't keep "too scummy to be scum" in my pants. in terms of settling-on-a-lynch reasons, it tends to be my last resort because i put more stock in that one solitary reason to townread him than i'd like to admit.

I guess that's fair? Honestly when I came in I was kinda wanting to give you a fresh start but then I changed my mind after a few vote hit you and I felt a little less tense about the whole affair, and then Ranmaru shifted off of you when she did which raised my eyebrows. I've been considering the possibility Eddie is right, since all of a sudden you were taken off the table by Ranmaru. That's why I think there's a dichotomy, I think LQ and Eddie are being promoted as the best wagons to reduce the viability of a scum lynch today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thoughts on CES: I think he's somewhat towny, his thoughts seems genuine and consistent, and the consistency doesn't feel like he's working to make it happen, it just seems to happen naturally, so I don't feel he's scum trying to maintain consistency there. Like, the suspicion of me is explained by the fact he was not a fan of the TChill lynch based on not seeing much actually worth scumreading, and I came in with a review that had quite a few of TChill's posts as scumposts

[Gamma Emerald]

You are playing desperate by pushing Eddie (Postie's top scum read) when you scumread Postie, and you state she's bussing. I think both you and Eddie are scum, trying to split wagons, so that you create connections between others instead of each other, which makes sense in a game where scum are discouraged from bussing. I'm shocked that Gamma doesn't see it.

Peddit: Just answer the question instead of dragging this out.

I'm sorry but scum are not THAT discouraged from bussing. Scum went all out on a cross bus move Day 2 in the White Flag game I played before.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Ran: It's Open 660 if you want to check for yourself.
So the scum are LicketyQuickety, KainTepes, and Toto. In day 2, Both LQ and KainTepes push both of their scumbuddies as scum with a random other townie. LQ pushed Transcend as the town that was scum, and KainTepes pushed me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, tell me more about that.

I think he is talking about the last time I played White Flag with him actually. Correct me if I am wrong GE.

That's exactly right.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I think that's what is happening here. I'm trying to wrack my brain around it. How is this situation different from Open 660? (I'm looking for the game now)

I thought you were arguing scum were trying to not bus?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma

: I should make myself clear. I think LQ is bussing Eddie, to drag down Postie. Eddie votes Marquis while having me as his top scum read, to drag me down. (Postie and I are universal town reads, they are trying to muddy our townieness with their deaths) LQ pushes Eddie, Eddie flips scum, LQ is semi-cleared for pushing since we wouldn't expect people to bus. Both of their reasoning for voting Eddie/Marquis are weird, and seem desperate. I think Marq is null-town, so Eddie's push on Marq doesn't seem like a bus. Go back and re-read the beginning of D2. Notice Eddie only focusing on my

catchup

and none of the rest of my play. Notice both their votes, then tell me what you think of their votes. Please look at them again. I'm coming from a mindset where I don't know what to expect, this is my first White Flag.

There are a few flaws to this theory. How would Postie get brought down if Eddie flipped scum? Wouldn't that net her significant towncred for being one of the first ones to push Eddie as scum? wrt LQ, as I said we played a previous game of WF together where LQ was scum and scum cross bussed, I figure LQ would be aware that bussing wouldn't do her any favors this time. The desperation I'm kinda up in the air about. I would like to ask how Marquis went from a scumread to Null-town.

[Gamma Emerald]

The desperation is in the air because while I kinda agreed there's also the issue of me not liking the timing of you pulling off of Marquis. Also Hold up I don't think he was active before you unvoted? I'm gonna have to go back and check that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I think I am starting to make sense of it. Plus your interactions with Marquis aren't really all that solid as scum-scum interactions now that I look at them.
UNVOTE:
not gonna vote yet since I'm rather tired now

[Gamma Emerald]

Ech I haven'y really been paying attention to like the last page or so due to priorities plus trying to tune out this whole shitfit

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll explain my GE scum read now. The main thing is that he seems much too concerned with whether his votes seem justified or not; as town you know you find people suspicious and you can vote for them, it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. #703 is definitely the worst offender - the actual case thing seems to consist mostly of him throwing slushy snowballs at Tchill and although he apparently thinks it's good enough to justify his vote, there's no sign he wants to encourage anyone to read any part of it. And there's lines like "Given that and the fact Something_Smart is telling me not to trust you, I feel comfortable with this." in #256 which just sounds so awkward to me, as if there's some bar that must be met before he's allowed to vote Shea. The amount of time he's spent not voting matches up with this too. (The vote on Marquis earlier Today was a welcome exception but I'd like to believe that could be a sign of a GE-Marquis partnership.)

Eddie, what do you personally think about Ranmaru? (I'm not interested in Mastina's opinion.)

I mean I feel my Marquis vote today is the time I was most worried about my vote being justified? And I am trying to not wave my vote around (vote movement wise, I agree that I should be pushing my reads more but honestly haven't really felt the need, once I develop a solid grasp on the current gamestate I'm fairly certain that will change however) because I'm trying to not look stupid this game. I'd like to play with some of these people in the future.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well honestly I just don't feel like voting in that shitstorm at all until I decide how I feel about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi will get back to this soon, I'm motivated to make sense of all of this after listening to some Hamilton, who knew that of all things would be good for mafia inspirational songs for me

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not really lost, it's just that this whole affair seems jumbled up and messed up and I don't know where to start with it

[Gamma Emerald]

wanted to do this today but unfortunately got roped into other things. Will probably happen tomorrow.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you unpack your scumread of Shea for me? Like as I see it it's for not really being genuine with his scumreads, am I getting that right?

[Gamma Emerald]

Notice, between myself and Shea, who has more presence this day phase? Does it seem like he's trying to win it for town as Llama's selected town leader (alongside myself).

True, he hasn't been as present, but I kinda find that incongruous with Eddie being scum for his increase in feistiness, for lack of a better word

[Gamma Emerald]

If TSQ was trying to blend in, why is his scumbuddy Eddie trying to stand out?
As for Lycan I've been kinda not liking their reads but I don't know why at this point. He probably deserves an ISO.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, so we're on the same page there then. Townreading CES btw
Honestly I think I'm actually in love with white flag now that I'm engaged in playing the setup

[Gamma Emerald]

Ran, RC says that all he sees you doing right now is trying to make another Eddie counterwagon happen, and that if Eddie is scum he wants you lynched tomorrow. He says you should help lynch Eddie if you want your TSQ read taken seriously.

Sorry I'll start playing the game myself more soon too.

So if she wants TSQ scum lynched
She has to lynch Eddie, who is town based of TSQ being scum

Great plan 10/10

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Postie
Yeah, thinking on it that

very

much looks like pushing an agenda, Ran has stated he doesn't believe those two are scum together so it's basically "help me push a mislynch then I'll join you".

[Gamma Emerald]

No, I'm thinking Eddie could be town rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you talk to me about that?

After you said TSQ was scum and we hashed out that that implied Eddie was town based off your reasoning, Postie tried to suggest lynching Eddie then TSQ to you. I feel like they're trying to push a ML through the prospect of working together

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there any long term benefit for Postie bussing Eddie? Why is Eddie lying down and taking this?

Shea, talk to me about what LQ was doing these recent pages.

I'm arguing Postie is scum and Eddie is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Well yes, I'm not blind.

As far as a read list goes, it's precisely the same as the last I gave except move CES to the town column.

Thus the not-town column reads as such: "Dunnstral; Marquis; GE" with the caveat that I haven't formed a complete read on GE.

To signal where I stand with both wagons mainly, but if my opinion is worth anything, perhaps slow the roll a tad and maybe even give people a chance to question me about the reads.

bleah what makes you think this team is valid? I feel like my interactions with Marquis aren't very smart as w/w

[Gamma Emerald]

I could get behind Dunnstral tho, I feel he's avoiding me

[Gamma Emerald]

I have lab soon but after that I'm feeling like finally getting to reading through the stuff in day 2 I haven't really looked at closely

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

Why did you scumread me day 1?

Well I thought you had joined the Marquis wagon. I was wrong though because you started it.

[Gamma Emerald]

That shows LQ was skimming the first lines rather than actually caring to read the post
VOTE: LQ

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd saying you using such rigorous logic is scummy but weren't you the one who made the axiomatic tells thread in MD, LQ?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd saying you using such rigorous logic is scummy but weren't you the one who made the axiomatic tells thread in MD, LQ?

Read this game, should enlighten you (and other's who read it) quite a bit: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=72693

I didn't think of this game until just now, but it's basically a carbon copy of how I am playing in this game. I use a similar angle to approach the game in that game that I do here. What I can gather from this is that People generally think playing this way is Scummy.

Here's a Scum game I would say also has a similar style to this game and the game I linked: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=71353

You should be able to tell a difference but IDK how subtle it is or if I am remembering how I played in these games well enough.

I'll look into it but I already think you're playing like you did in that white flag game in a way

[Gamma Emerald]

I see similarities and differences
I see that you had similar outrage when being voted at first but didn't see any at further points
Difference is there doesn't seem to be the feel of discrediting from you in that game, while in the other WF and this game it's there

[Gamma Emerald]

Who said there was a Chilly/screen - AD - CES team d1?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think they could be town based on them reaching that conclusion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay yeah I remember that interaction, just didn't realize Lycanfire was the one who thought that. Thanks.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think that's a valid point against Lycan.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not finished with my reread, but I've been noticing a strange trend where people are severely misinformed about my preferences to be scum or town. I suppose this is directed at NSG and Almost50 but I both prefer town and rate myself as much better at playing town than scum. I'm legitimately curious were your teams are getting the exact opposite idea. I could even quote myself evaluating my shortcomings in my UCV-hydra QT from deathworlders which happens to be one of 3 recent large theme games I've lost as scum each time.

So yeah,

Curious.

Well one of them was auto, and you played 'aight imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Davsto says my interactions with TSQ have been off? I wanna hear this

[Gamma Emerald]

Davsto says my interactions with TSQ have been off? I wanna hear this

I don't mean off as in ingenuine if that's what you think I mean

I mean like I remember you coming out quite badly with your confrontations with tsq in terms of your points coming out looking rather poor ygm

But recently you've rubbed me much less wrongly so that is why I'm planning on ISOing you soon

Alright, I just felt like it could have been relating to more than just the initial argument between us

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think I have many other games with LQ other than the white flag game. There was a hydra game in the past but I hate even thinking about it so let's not talk about it

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm reading the game but am unsure what to add to it.
Is there a reason we haven't lynched Eddie yet?
Like I'm cool with waiting if there's stuff people need to do but
I don't actually understand what it is people are really doing right now

We haven't lynched eddie because there's other options we're considering. World doesn't revolve around RC, tyvm

[Gamma Emerald]

She's been behind quite a bit of what you've been saying