Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

"Scum syntax" arguments are heresy.

VOTE: Bell


From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town. My ears are open for the scream.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Was thinking if your alignment in this game motivated you to read that game.
It seems like you tried to grasp their characteristics.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

Also, about vigis shooting early, that all depends on how productive we are today. If they are clueless, they should definetly not shoot anyone, but if they have reasonably high scum reads, I think it'd be reasonable for them to shoot.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

True, you said elimming higher activity slots gives more info which is 1 not necessarily true and 2 implies elimming high-content slots is not that bad which is harmful

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

I'm here for you, bro.

VOTE: Mashmallow

Reason:

Claims previous discussion is NAI and has killed RVS on

page 2

when the majority of people haven't voted. Claims calling others scum is more useful but then doesn't do it themselves.

Thank you

Why do you feel the need to put "reason" next to every vote you make?

"when the majority of people haven't voted" Right! And excluding Pickaxe, those who have voted didn't care about their vote anymore when the lurking discussion popped up. But this is now fixed, since you're voting me with a mimimal intent of pressuring lol, which is good.
I kinda called Bell out for his bad ways of reading people, if that counts, although I don't really think he's scum. Still put my vote on him, though, and gave a townread that I maintain on Pickaxe. We don't necessarily have to literally "call people scum" like I said, but at least to talk about their behavior and emit suspicions or show our trust towards them.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

"Scum syntax" arguments are heresy.

VOTE: Bell


From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town. My ears are open for the scream.

You seem a little townie, why are you voting me?

Because it was the best thing to do at the time xD. You advocated for the scum syntax theory.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

I thought this was sarcasm.

You're probably not going to like it, but it was real . It doesn't mean I'm locking him as town, but it means I like him. Objections?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

It's not that I don't want to read it, I love game theory. I just don't love when it takes over the thread and that people begin to read eachother based on theory agreements or disagreements, because in my experience, that always leads to town getting lynched or scum getting a lot of easy town points.

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

What about his posts looked like trying to generate AI discussion to you?

VOTE: Marshmallow

Voting with a line meant to be replied to, and not taking part to the discussion about theory that took over the thread for some posts. Not saying his posts are legendary, but they are still better than Superbowl's, for example.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why do you feel the need to put "reason" next to every vote you make?

The continued inability of others to read my mind.

Because it was the best thing to do at the time xD. You advocated for the scum syntax theory.

He was making a joke. Not a good one, but it's Bell. You have to make allowances.

Fair.

Mhmm, I don't actually think he's scum, mind you. I just don't think

anyone

is scum at the moment. The point was to spark discussion that wasn't: "let's lynch high activity slots!" "No let's not!" "But let's do it anyway!" "No, lynch lurkers!" "Maybe?". Mission complete! And now that we're in more meaningful discussion, I think I'd like to keep it here just to see where it goes.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

"Scum syntax" arguments are heresy.

VOTE: Bell


From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town. My ears are open for the scream.

Was this a serious vote?

lol sorry

Sorry for what? I feel dumb for being clueless in front of this two-word post lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You’re looking into the void and letting your brain come up with explanations with no evidence behind them.
He voted somebody who hasn't Replied to their role pm yet.

We shall see. I never said this read was anything strong. I just like the intent I see behind his simple posts. I could be wrong, of course. But I could also be right. Also note that "finding

evidence

" at this stage of the game is more or less impossible. We CREATE evidence right now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Here I come; had to be off yesterday. Looks like the thread is bigger now.

How much experience do you have in mafia Marshall?

I've been playing FM consistently since 2017, so I'd say "a lot", although I'm not one of those veterans who have been playing the game for 10 years.

From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town.

I’M TOWN!

We shall see lol

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

What about his posts looked like trying to generate AI discussion to you?

VOTE: Marshmallow

Voting with a line meant to be replied to

, and not taking part to the discussion about theory that took over the thread for some posts. Not saying his posts are legendary, but they are still better than Superbowl's, for example.

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

"One balloon for you" is usually the kind of thing you say when you want to engage RVS-style conversation with a player. Also, "contrived read"... it isn't because I give the weak reads I have to start discussion that I'm giving "contrived" reads. This is going to read as more haughty than it should, but I sadly don't see a better way to word it, sorry in advance: you should be thanking me for starting meaningful discussion on people's behavior (in this very case, mine) instead of blaming me for giving a weak read in the first hours of D1 and calling it "contrived".

That being said, I can understand the thought process town!Cat would be going through here, and give some town points to them (more meaningful town points than those I gave to Pickaxe early on).
oh no maybe that's "contrived" too

and final disclaimer, this is not meant to be mean lol, I just find your conception of how people should play quite restrictive.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

I went down this path too, but as much as you

could

be right, it could also be town!Bell either having trouble realizing that he's scumreading people based on purely theory-related disagreements, or using a playstyle that is beyond my comprehension. The balance doesn't really swing on either side as far as my knowledge goes (note that I haven't read everything yet).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

At first I thought, no way is this goofy guy scum.
But then I read his first game here as mafia and he was super goofy.
But like, what if he’s just an easy miselimination, I should read another one<this is where i’m At.

So basically, I'm scum because I'm weird (i.e. come from another site with another meta)? That's GOOFY.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

wishy washy

VOTE: Marshall

Spoiler: video

Mehhhhh

VOTE: Marshall

I'd rather vote Fwesnid, but both are in my low info scum pool.

Double mehhhhhhh

Both of those votes are basically just sheeping (or at least lack the explaination to give them the legitimacy of non-sheep votes). Between the two of them, I actually think Looter's is the worst, because it has a... "justification", if it can be called like that. He states I'm in his "low info scum pool" (without ever saying why, and I don't think he ever said why Fwesnid was, either). Could be justify-y scum. I also fail to comprehend why he would vote me and not Fwesnid, given he said he'd rather vote them.

As for Lapsa, it just looks like a slightly trolly and harmless sheep vote, which isn't really scummy, just maybe not so useful.

Thank god we’ve generated some AI discussion out of the 4 theory posts that took over the game thread huh MM

VOTE: Marshall

Mhmm, what happened there is actually useful to analyze.

Why are we wagoning MM?

That's a very good question! xD

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

Not sure what this post means

I’m not really seeing why MM is scummy.
And they seem a bit too easy to wagon this early in the game.

Ya this Marshall wagon sucks

People actually seeing that my wagon sucks. Pointing it out for context for the next post, which is pretty important:

Haha this wagon sucks! Instead let me build a case on someone else with 5 pages of RVS!

Yall sound very eager to throw shade while you are both doing nothing sitting on RVS votes

So, basically, they would have to sheep your thoughts and not voice disagreement? I get that I'm slightly biased due to being the wagoned player here, but I'm pretty sure that town looks for truth and correct lynches, which implies that town welcomes meaningful discussion, and not for sheep votes. And I'm pretty sure town doesn't purely and simply discredit the players who oppose their views without even really questioning or attacking those views. Because of this:
VOTE: Superbowl9

[Marshmallow Marshall]

By the way, those are Superbowl's next posts:

Your vote was RVS initially no? For a 21 player game seems very convenient that your RVS vote just happened to morph into your biggest scumread

Do you have anything else on Bell besides that he's lamisting? Convince me i'm wrong

Not angry, just trying to create interactions. Which you should know with your level of experience

But can you answer my question tho 0.0

Completely off the track of my wagon and the reasoning behind it, and deflecting the question of "why is this wagon a thing?".

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I mean if you don't see what I (and presumably others) see you don't need to join the wagon lol. But to shade it just because you don't understand it and then ask us to remove all impact from the wagon by explaining it does not seem very positive of a play here.

I mean if you don't understand it I don't think I can really help you fam

It's kind of like telling you why explaining a joke no longer makes it funny, if you don't get it you just don't get it

Ah yes, the scum distancing on pg 5 of a large game strat. I can argue with you if that will make you feel better

What's your experience with mafia lol? No offense, but those two posts are, ummmmm.... showing a... special take on the way Mafia should be played. Explaining your pushes is like mafia 101 for those who seek the truth, i.e. for town.

It's kind of like telling you why explaining a joke no longer makes it funny, if you don't get it you just don't get it

Ahaha, yes. Indeed.

Explaining why you find someone scummy is so overrated. Let’s just all wagon one player, and only when the player is eliminated shall i reveal how i found him out as scum. Very good strategy, definiteky the best way to find TR’s. I’m sure a lot of town would love to join this wagon UNTIL, i reveal my secrets. When i do that they will all stop wagoning the person in question and it’s all ruined!

I

want

to read you as strong town for your consistent logic that has strong possibility of stemming from town intent, but I have PTSD from similar situations in which I got pocketed by the logical scum guy defending (directly or indirectly) town!me. Still giving you some town points here though.

Also, all alignments aside, this post is gold

[Marshmallow Marshall]

How does explaining your reasoning for voting remove impact ?

It's kind of like telling you why explaining a joke no longer makes it funny, if you don't get it you just don't get it

Absolute nonsense lmao VOTE: superbowl9

By curiosity, do you think it's necessarily indicative of being scum, or that it could also just be indicative of Superbowl being wrong, independently from his alignment? I'd like some deeper thoughts on the matter.

Wagons =/= elims

"But superbowl does that mean you're just hopping on a wagon to add pressure and get the game moving, even if you don't have a strong SR because you know wagons produce interactions?"

^ And now you've removed all pressure that my vote holds

Votes without explainations hold very little pressure because they're void lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ok, but why do you feel that way? And I'm fairly certain that several ppl were already talking about how it was so easy to wagon him so your "MM wagon suxs!" isn't exactly original content.

I agree with this post btw. Stanley may have been surfing on the existing contestation against my wagon to take a stance for the sake of it here.

If you didn't think it was forced SvS why did you bring it up? Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

Where did I say it was forced SvS ? Dont remember saying that

Yeah thats my point

Then what did you mean? Because if you say an argument is "forced" you to elaborate in what sense it was "forced.

Also agree with those posts. I feel like none of this Norwee/Superbowl vs Stan is SvS, though, and Superbowl is scummier than Stanley for the reasons I explained before, so Stanley gets the benefit of the doubt for now. I have my eye on him, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I strongly disagree but its game theory so no point in arguing about it and cluttering up the thread. Lets lynch stan or at least talk about him. What is even that fuzzy alien avatar?

Some small town points for noticing that the discussion was sidetracking on game theory disagreement and that this disagreement was being used as an argument against Stanley, and especially for steering the discussion out of it to a more healthy one.

naw, creature doesn't post. this guy actully posts.

or i take that back.

creature does post a ton of useless fluff.

Why is Creature so famous? Everywhere I go, people talk about him in games lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Superbowl could just be a freak town with differing logic than the rest of us tho MM.

Indeed, which is why I'm asking them for their level of experience with the game. Also, I'd like to hear

@Ganelon

's thoughts on the matter, not sure if he has posted yet

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

what did I do wrong with my video lol

anyway you can just copypaste the link

[Marshmallow Marshall]

town looter is a good wagon.

Uuuuuuuuuuuh... no? What is it even based on? I more or less didn't notice its existence... Can you explain further on this, please?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You only put the last part in the youtube tag MM.

So (Youtube) l_GBfiKjJZ8(Youtube) would be correct.

Oh ok, thanks

~~

Looking at NoPower, I don't like what I'm seeing.

I don't like the stanley push. Seems like mislynch bait.

You seem to think everyone overreacts if they don't agree with your pushes.

You seem overly invested in how players are perceiving other players.

That's a lot of absolute statements without any quoted basis in the thread, and those statements would really require quotes to back themselves up.

You seem to think everyone overreacts if they don't agree with your pushes.

????

Who did I claim was overreacting for not liking my Stan push? (let's just say that I'm pushing norway) who did I claim was overreacting for not liking my push on him?

I'm talking in generalities. I didn't say it applies to every situation.

And that's the issue with the lack of quotes: it leads to inaccurate statements, and that can be proved by the people who bring the quotes up. The question here is whether NoPower was doing this maliciously or inadvertently... and I do not have the answer yet. Definetly something to dig into, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm talking in generalities. I didn't say it applies to every situation.

So basically you are just responding with vague wording. Got it.

There you go again.

I mean you seem more interested in townpainting or scumpainting(mostly scumpainting) players rather than actually finding scum.

More of the previously mentioned behavior

I'm liking NPOM's content so far. Seems similar to their townplay i'm familiar with.

So that's their meta? If so, then it's more understandable, and can be seen as towny aggressive pressuring playstyle.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This whole argument between Nero, NoPower and Norwee on pages 12-14 will be very interesting to look at when one of them flips, but for now, it's only giving me a headache lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The "I don't care if I die early" is blatant ate that's the main reason Norway needs to go.

I don't agree with this (not caring about dying early isn't AtE, it's a mentality), but I see the kind of player NoPower is now. And I don't think it's true only siths deal in absolutes in Mafia; NoPower is going pretty hard at Norwee for rather weak reasons here. Leaning town on him, and leaning TvT on Norwee - NoPower.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

UNVOTE: RozyRoz

Recalling one balloon.

Um, that's it? Rather lazy. I'm disappointed. You are officially stripped of your early town points.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Glitch's wallpost

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

This is some major bullshit. I wish I could have been here when your wagon was alive and strong so I could bolster it with my vote as well. When confronted on this by CSF and Bell, let's take a look at this:

Voting with a line meant to be replied to, and not taking part to the discussion about theory that took over the thread for some posts. Not saying his posts are legendary, but they are still better than Superbowl's, for example.

This line of thinking does not make sense whatsoever. I know that you have not been active since post 115 but when you return please answer the question posed to you by CSF here in response to your 110:

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

---

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

Is this what you're talking about when you said you threw a tiny bit of shade at superbowl? How is this throwing a tiny bit of shade? This is the only time you've addressed SB in the game:

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

Can you please clarify: where did you throw a tiny bit of shade on SB, and where was MM's response to that which made you decide to vote for him? Who was the other person who took your "bait?" This seems like a really weak argument worthy of voting for because I don't see anything indicating that you actually threw shade at SB and especially don't see anywhere where MM gave a reaction to that. And yet somehow MM gave enough reaction to vote for him?

---

This argument between you two feels forced af

Stan, can you please define, in as much detail as you possibly can,

exactly

what you meant and exactly what you were trying to communicate by using the term, "forced af?"

---

Did we just completely ignore the fact that 72 came in and voted 4 different times on page 9? What the hell was that, 72?

---

Can we go back to Norwegian though? I'm interested in if you're scum-reading him.

I'm not really understanding why a naked vote is getting everybody up in arms. I'm not really hard scumreading him or anything but I had a little niggle and I didn't really want to leave my vote empty after I got off Stan. Its been a while but I vaguely recall norway proclaiming himself as town ad nasuem when he was scum.

Good thing i'm green☆

I’M TOWN!

assuming that I remembered correctly then that seems p similar to his scum game.

Why are you unable to see that your naked vote on Norway was sketchy at best? This whole page 10-11 interaction where you're defending your naked vote is really poor. When pushed to explain, the best you've got is to quote two posts from Norway that are super clearly sarcastic and not to be taken as AI? Additionally, your case that Norway is scummy because he wants to know why you're voting him is bad. Everyone would want to know why you cast a vote for them if you just did so out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever. It feels like you set up a trap for him: you know Norway is talkative and expressive and posts a lot. Are you scum taking advantage of that who set up Norway with a naked vote to inquire why you voted him, and then you smeared his playstyle calling him hyper defensive when he simply wanted you to explain why you voted for him? You tried to make him look bad for wanting to understand and wanting you to clarify your vote. Why is it bad that Norway wants you to give information on your vote? I thought you were an advocate of not keeping information to yourself but sharing it with the rest of the world, according to this:

Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

oh, you are one of those players :/

Nah not necessarily. Transparency is powerful but it's also a game of information. If you just put everything out there 100% of the time you will lose your advantage.

I strongly disagree but its game theory so no point in arguing about it and cluttering up the thread. Lets lynch stan or at least talk about him. What is even that fuzzy alien avatar?

VOTE: Nero Cain

---

If something doesn't change we're PL'ing Lapsa before long.

Replied to what you wanted me to reply to

The point about Nero's naked vote on Norwee is fair. It doesn't feel right to me on a pure gut level, but it logically makes sense, so idk. I guess I'll keep a bit more of an eye on him? Either way, I like that part of the post.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the "I don't care if I die" is (imo) mostly bad town mentality thats

EASILY

fakeable from scum.

True, but the benefits of faking it as scum aren't so great, and it's not rare to see it simply come from town, so I'm very reluctant to scumread anyone on that basis.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I just realized I've cluttered a page and a half with my catch-up lol. I think I'm going off now, have fun guys

I'm changing your name to Marshal Zhukov after watching that video.

YES

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: quotes

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

Thats because I wasnt confident about what i was sheeping.

Spoiler:

Um, thank you for your honesty. Why would you sheep something you're not confident about though lol? That sounds like an obvious recipe for disaster from a townie's point of view, no?

Spoiler: quotes

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

This is actually really scummy.
Liked my previous stance on himself.
I do something that based on what he has posted, he should scumread me for, but instead concludes with a fence-sittish "so uh,

what is this

?

Not sure

I like it"

I like your previous stance on myself because it's right. What, you'd want me not to talk about it because it doesn't fit my distrust of you that comes later? How would that serve the town's interest? Answer: it wouldn't.
And if you were actually basing on what I posted instead of twisting my words, you'd see that I'm trying to see where you're coming from instead of instantly accusing you of being scum. It's not fencesitting, it's the healthy level of doubt required in Mafia lol.

So basically it feels like !scumMM concluding that its not in his interests to scumread me, so he doesnt.

And then the final layer of red paint.

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me. I'm slightly leaning towards the latter due to their lack of content (they literally popped in only to defend themselves and shade me, and said NOTHING about the rest of the thread's events) and due to the nature of the shade-throwing here. I'm open to the possibility of an Offsuit lynch today. I'd also like to see more content from them that isn't self-defense, so here's a question: what do you think about Norwee and about Superbowl, Offsuit?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ahh, the joy of playing offsite xD (love the site, but ugh I'm not used to the BBcode yet). Sorry for the layout. I think you'll be able to see what is mine and what isn't... hopefully.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

How did you mess up your post on my mobile browser so badly.

'Twas probably made by capitalist scumbags anyway.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).

My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.

Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.

And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.

All very minor things, but they all add up.

I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.

Spoiler:

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

VOTE: Superbowl

Why do you think stanley is good for scum me to latch onto over town me? What has stanley done to give you a townread?

It sounds to me like your case is "well scum superbowl

could

have done all of these things!" I hope I don't have to tell you that's a bad case.

For the misquote thing I was on mobile and hit the quote button to respond, then changed my mind because I assessed it as not too big of a deal to respond to, you're saying I should have been flustered by it and responded immediately? Maybe I just don't get flustered because I'm built different

To be fair, Looter seems aware that his case is weak (at least that's what the first line suggests). But he gives it anyway. And honestly, I tend to townread the move because it is likely to come from town wanting to give their opinion, as weak as it could be (a bit like how I gave my early opinion of Pickaxe, and y'all hated that). So if anything, this gives some small town points to Looter. It isn't really a great case though lol, I'm only commenting on the intent I see behind the post here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me.

Oh the irony

More discrediting? -_-

~~

Norway is scum. I'm not moving my vote for the rest of the day.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but this is bullshit.

You didn't test Norway for reactivity, you targeted a poster you already knew tended to react to things and are now spinning that reaction into proof of being mafia. I mentioned at the beginning of the game that Norway was a good scum player, and I think you're trying to capitalize on townie paranoia of being tricked by good scum players.

Even if you did think Norway might be scum, there's no way you'd be 100% sure this early and planting your vote here means less pressure on real mafia. It's a safe way to look like you're scumhunting while contributing little.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ehhh, perhaps, but Norway said NoPower was playing in their town meta, and I see NoPower's playstyle as very different from others. They keep making absolute statements where they don't belong, and I think that's a playstyle difference and not an alignment difference. Now of course, they could be scum anyway, but I wouldn't put too much money on it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@marshall, you either misunderstood or strawmanned my opinion on you. I was saying that you’re goofy as both alignments. Also you’ve been in enough games here to adjust to the meta here, so that excuse doesn’t work at all.

Oh ok
Well uh, sure, I'm "goofy" to you. I maintain the meta difference part, though: a lot of seasoned MS players really don't think the way I do (or the way anyone on any site I know of does, by the way).

Also, if Nero-Norwee is scum theatre, I will eat my hat. Which isn't too hard, since I have no hat, but anyway. I really, really, really doubt their interactions are SvS, both because of the suspicions between them both and because of the heated character of those interactions.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

People have absolutely said what i’m About to say better. But he’s thinking laterally, but it’s all town perspective.

“the solving of problems by an indirect and creative approach, typically through viewing the problem in a new and unusual light.“-google.

Just read him again.

Huh ok, I actually like your view now lol, it joins up with what I just said and shows that you're looking at me through well-thought-about lens.

And no, I'm not saying that because you say I have town perspective, I'm saying that because I think you saying that comes from a town perspective

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: quote

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

"One balloon for you" is usually the kind of thing you say when you want to engage RVS-style conversation with a player.

He voted someone who hadn't picked up their role pm

Also, "contrived read"... it isn't because I give the weak reads I have to start discussion that I'm giving "contrived" reads. This is going to read as more haughty than it should, but I sadly don't see a better way to word it, sorry in advance: you should be thanking me for starting meaningful discussion on people's behavior (in this very case, mine) instead of blaming me for giving a weak read in the first hours of D1 and calling it "contrived".

That being said, I can understand the thought process town!Cat would be going through here, and give some town points to them (more meaningful town points than those I gave to Pickaxe early on).
oh no maybe that's "contrived" too

and final disclaimer, this is not meant to be mean lol, I just find your conception of how people should play quite restrictive.

Weak =/= contrived.

Weak reads are fine as something to get the ball rolling.

Your read is both weak and contrived. It's hard to believe town would look at Pete's posts critically and be like "yeah this is going to be the townlean read that I'm going to throw out"

I don't take a read and say "Ok, this is

the

read I'll be giving". I see something, I say it. Period.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think town would try and incorporate other players into the game rather than try to convince others to ignore other players they had a bad one game experience with.

If town was made up of robots instead of human beings, sure.

Someone who will exclude others due to one bad game is going to do so whether they're green or red.

It's pretty self-centered and anti Town though. Any reasonable townie should know that one game is not an adequate sample size. Also being a eplacement is not easy and somewhat thankless.

I agree with you that it's anti-town, but I certainly do not agree that it's scummy to be angry at someone because of a past game. It's not scummy to be human lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

howdy

hmmmmm

*looks at ISO to make sure I didn't miss posts from the guy*

Yeah uh, this is his complete ISO...

Would you mind giving us a little bit more, Ralph? Your thoughts on SuperBowl, for example.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

how many scum is in

LicketyQuickety
popopopopopopo
ralph217
Ganelon
NorwegianboyEE
Glitch
Lapsa

?

Why is your list made of zero posters AND of active posters (looking at Norwee here) AND of medium-low activity people (like Glitch)? Your post looks like a question asked for the sake of being asked, and I do not like it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

lets make this Glitch wagon a thing. to me Bell and you 2 TOSers!

Pretty bold for the strenght of the read on Glitch.

It’s acknowledging 2 worlds. 1 where i’m scum and town!Neros push was kinda awkward

he doesn't seem to hold this opinion He's accusing me of potentially bussing you. So either he's scum that knows you'll flip scum and is pre emptively setting up an argument for later on or knows that this is TvT and is setting up a chain lynch.

There is no real reason to have that much fear about a Norwee lynch today for scum!Glitch+Norwee, as Norwee isn't really being pushed that much. Not enough for Glitch to try this kind of play, at least. As for the chain lynch theory, if Glitch was trying to do that, he'd be much more present in the thread. As things stand right now, he's only making a few wallposts that probably not everyone reads and that don't have enormous weight in the thread, which isn't exactly the vision I have of "setting up a chain lynch".

TL;DR: your case is rather weak.

And since your case is weak, I think the first quote up there could very well be a deflection from an annoying wagon. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know... but I have doubts on Nero now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hello, I exist. More catch-up to do, it seems.

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

Yeah your 2 pages are just basic information and not really things that are pushy/pushable, hence why it's IIoA.

I know you want me to go point by point through so you can undermine my position, but that literally makes no sense because I'm saying you've been cluttering the thread with basic info. Why would I respond to/elaborate upon that basic info lol?

Also dude you have literally OMGUSed everyone who has slighted you. Idk why you view this as a "discredit" because (at least imo) OMGUS is pretty NAI in most cases but it's just funny to point out when you OMGUS scumread someone then say they're OMGUSing.

Very convenient for you lol, you get to not explain your reads!

I think that's what you wanted, hm? Great discredit again, btw. I'd like you to at least back it up A BIT with some quotes, if you don't mind.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Titus replaces Ganelon, Almost50 replaces popopo etc
VC incoming thank you guys for your patience

Nice, so one of the reasons for which I joined a large instead of a mini just went away

Can someone tell me what the Glitch train is about, by the way? I don't really get it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why is your list made of zero posters AND of active posters (looking at Norwee here) AND of medium-low activity people (like Glitch)?

I don't really understand this. Am I supposed to hunt from only one activity group or something? Also, Norway feels kinda active lurkish compared to early game but I do have town reads of various degrees on most active players.

No, but you asked "how many scum in there", and I don't get why you put the players you put in the list there. Usually, people make that kind of list to "sort by activity", like "how many lurkers are scum", which is why I asked. Guess I misunderstood it. What was the intent behind your post, then?

as Norwee isn't really being pushed that much

norway is @ 2 votes.

all of Nero, Glitch, Bell would vote him...prob. If we all voted him we could make him the top wagon. There are maybe others that have expressed suspicion of him and would vote him. I don't think its that far fetched to think the guy could get lynched. But even if its not today its not like there is some statue of limitations on Glitch's accusations so

And since your case is weak, I think the first quote up there could very well be a deflection from an annoying wagon.

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know

... but I have doubts on Nero now.

Well I have doubts you know what you are talking about. If you think my reasoning on Glitch is weak fine but I'm doing my job and pushing my top scum read and trying to get town to go in the direction I think it should go. The only 2 other wagons are you and superbowl so you are kinda floating the idea that I am pushing Glitch to deflect from you or SB wagon but are being really really wishy-washy about it? (see bold) So I kinda don't get whats making you have doubts and it feels more like this was intended to litly defend Glitch than actully confront me with something that bothered you.

"Norwee has two votes, but more people could vote him" isn't exactly what I would call a compelling argument. It's far from enough for scummates to think "Hey, we gotta prepare ourselves for the bussing towncred!". As for you "doing your job", well, sure, but I'm doing my job by pointing out that your reasoning is bad lol. Also, I do not exclude a Nero-Superbowl scum team (although I have not specifically looked into it, I think it makes sense both as a team and as individual scums).
As for "wishy-washy", I'm not 100 % sold on what I'm saying because you know, that's what happens when you're a part of the

uninformed

majority . You're convincing me that I'm right, though.

VOTE: Nero Cain

Note that I still am pro-Superbowl lynch, but this looks like a good train to start.

~~

Why did the guy with a dark Nepalese flag avatar just post an explaination about the origins of

dowel

?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also I had kinda felt like Glitch's hesitation @ joining the MM wagon made MM somewhat likely to be town. What do you think about that?

Sorry but can you link me to this post? I don't remember this

I wish I could have been here when your wagon was alive and strong so I could bolster it with my vote as well

it was also ??? b/c the wagon was a fairly strong 4 votes so IDK why he's acting like it was gone and dead. And even if it was dead (or thought it was dead) he could have tried to restart it

So he didn't vote MM b/c ????

FMPOV, a vote on a growing wagon just moves the game along and intentionally not moving the game foreward is scummy to me.

And how does that make me more likely to be town? If anything, according to your reasoning, it should make me more likely to be scum: if you're right in assuming scum!Glitch, he'd have either defended scum!me indirectly by steering the lynch away from me or deemed that pushing town!me would be a bad idea for reasons unknown. Now obviously, I'm not saying I'm scum, and I don't really see why Glitch would be, either, but I don't get your reasoning.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Hiraki wallpost

he seems to be hinting that he thinks I was bussing norway. it's still weird mostly.

It's even weirder to say pre-flip. Why not flip you Norwee and then flip you and put the nail on the coffin there? Seems like an overall lie to me.

Agreed with MM on 629.

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.

Already stopped reading.

669 is bad.

With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals.

this is literally scum logic. He's not worried about figuring out the dynamics-he just wants lynches. Unless he thinks Norway and I are scum together he can't think norway and I are both scum and he's like "naw, not worried about that."

This isn't true either.

I don't like Norway's motivation this game. He was town in the last game I played with him and his morale was up the whole game. I don't like the whole idea of lowering the player pool being top priority right now even at the cost of town deaths. Seems haphazard and wreckless which isn't the Norway I played with last time.

Are some of you seriously still harping on the argument that: "Suggesting us to vig players is so scummy!!!!" stuff?

Bingo.

Took you guys waaaay too long to hop on Glitch.

Rigidly narrow like that blue arrow

?

It has to be 2 vigilante setup. I see no other way around it.

Rolefishing much?

Fos lapsa

I agree with this. Not sure where it came from. Thought I missed something.

My town equity in Looter went down the more I read 730.

It has to be 2 vigilante setup. I see no other way around it.

Rolefishing much?

Fos lapsa

Even scum syntax theory is miles better than that.

Why even mention it though? That's the problem. It came out of the blue for no reason. You heard vig and decided to say "WELL WAIT GUYS, THERE'S PROBABLY

2

VIGS!" Why??

Glad to know Hiraki has it all figured out.

Thanks.

It’s one of those ambiguous posts where it could be scum telling hiraki he’s totally wrong, totally right, a put down for semi arrogant wording, Or just a denial that he’s scum and making fun of Hiraki for it.

Either way, not helpful and just weird in taste.

Town, however, should come from an uninformed perspective and his opening has me questioning that.

Do you want to elaborate or just speak progressively weirder? I'm fine with either.

The binary language seems like he came in with a certain idea of who he wanted to eliminate or not eliminate.

Lol.

Hiraki, keen to hear where you finally land on Glitch once you have fully caught up. BoP coming your way buddy.

What is a BoP? I intend to vote him for reasons that have nothing to do with what is currently being said. Don't know if need to elaborate on them.

In post 314, superbowl9 wrote:
Also dude naked voting someone and saying aha you reacted is the worst possible reaction test of all time

Not what happened and also wrong.

How is this not what happened?

Pretty great answer here:

i mean, it wasn't really a reaction test. Do you feel like the level of agression that he's sending my way is justified?

Hiraki pls don't continue with your catchup you're not helping anyone in the thread by quoting and saying "bad"

Stay mad.

I still really want to eliminate Virgo tbh.

Need to read into this tbh.

This looks genuine to me, probably because I tend to make wallposts/a lot of small posts when I catch up too. Good feeling on Hiraki for now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM are you voting me b/c I disagreed with you that norway had gotten pushed today?

No, I'm voting you for a few reasons and this isn't one on them. You are using the "Norwee was pushed hard enough for scummates to want to save him" argument against Glitch and are pushing his lynch for it, which sucks. There's also my 971 on the same topic. To make it short, my main reason for voting you is that your push on Glitch is bad and that you're clinging to it without being towny by doing other stuff (really, your latest and main activity has been pushing Glitch and more or less insulting Norwee over petty stuff). You also happen to have interesting interactions with Norwee and Stanley, and I believe your flip could help solve those slots.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

In post 637, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
as Norwee isn't really being pushed that much

norway is @ 2 votes.

all of Nero, Glitch, Bell would vote him...prob. If we all voted him we could make him the top wagon. There are maybe others that have expressed suspicion of him and would vote him. I don't think its that far fetched to think the guy could get lynched. But even if its not today its not like there is some statue of limitations on Glitch's accusations so

Uh yes you are using that argument Nero lol. As for the info part being a bad reason to vote you, it'd be true if it were my only reason, which it is not.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Look Marsh, your vote on nero is like, 95% likely to be town. vote elsewhere.
I've literally never seen scum act like nero is rn.
He's super obv town. And you can quote me and make fun of me forever if I'm wrong.

We can paranoia scumread Nero if he’s alive after like 3-4 days. But i’m not for a D1 lynch on him.
Nero votes are wasted votes because i’ll never support it.

Don’t go to the dark side MM. I know it’s tempting. But the side of good is here, begging you to cast aside your sins and prove your towniness.

Uh ok, I guess this is a "throw my vote away" situation. I still view Nero as scummy though. UNVOTE: Nero Cain back to this then.

you said norway isn't being pushed that much. He's been one on the days main pushes besides you, Glitch and Superbowl.

I'd say Stanley was pushed about as hard as him, which isn't much. Speaking of that, surprisingly the push on Stanley died down because... uh, because he went offline? Or am I missing something?

Also, back to this: VOTE: Superbowl

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Who would you expect to quick~hammer?? I am already on the wagon. FL & N_M are not in the game. Who -from this players list- has the balls (or is enough of a troll) to quickhammer and hope to get away with it?

Lapsa, Dexter, Marshall, or you know, anybody who drunk posts.


@Kitty, read back at my progression from 1 meta read game to two meta read games to, Idk what he is anymore.

I do not like what you think of me. I would never hammer early unless there's a real consensus on it (or unless I'm dumb and accidentally hammer lol).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Honestly, my impulse control isn't too good today. I'm going to vote now so I don't give into temptation.

VOTE: glitch

That's L-1.

See, I am not quickhammering today. I am good.

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Everyone just ignores my post on scum!72. Feels bad.

I thought that it was over.....
I thought you'd understand.....

That Superbowl;s wagon.....
Is the one to get on, band.....

Mafia is red,
Townies are blue,
This is a bad wagon,
I'm voting for you.

VOTE: 72offsuit

I could also get on board with this btw, but I feel like Superbowl is a better lynch info-wise. Voters and people who commented on Offsuit aren't legion. I also think Superbowl is more likely to flip scum. Good lynches either way.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VC1.09

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch

superbowl9 (4):

stan1ey, 72offsuit, Town looter, Fwesnid

Glitch (8):

Nero Cain, Bell, Cat Scratch Fever, Hiraki, Titus, NoPowerOverMe, I Keep Siteflaking, superbowl9, SJReaver

Lapsa (1)

: ralph217

NorwegianBoyEE (1):

JacksonVirgo

Nero Cain (2):

Glitch, Marshmallow Marshall

JacksonVirgo (1):

Pickaxe Pete

Not Voting:

Almost50, Lapsa, NorwegianBoyEE

Deadline:

4 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes

Mod Notes:

Posting this with the knowledge im probably wrong, I'll fix it in an hour once im off my phone

Either this VC is terribly wrong or the people screaming Glitch is at L-1 are terribly bad at math. Or they're hoping for him to be fooled and not to look at the big obvious orange vote count lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: long post

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

Thats because I wasnt confident about what i was sheeping.

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

This is actually really scummy.
Liked my previous stance on himself.
I do something that based on what he has posted, he should scumread me for, but instead concludes with a fence-sittish "so uh,

what is this

?

Not sure

I like it"

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

Thats because I wasnt confident about what i was sheeping.

Um, thank you for your honesty. Why would you sheep something you're not confident about though lol? That sounds like an obvious recipe for disaster from a townie's point of view, no?

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

This is actually really scummy.
Liked my previous stance on himself.
I do something that based on what he has posted, he should scumread me for, but instead concludes with a fence-sittish "so uh,

what is this

?

Not sure

I like it"

I like your previous stance on myself because it's right. What, you'd want me not to talk about it because it doesn't fit my distrust of you that comes later? How would that serve the town's interest? Answer: it wouldn't.
And if you were actually basing on what I posted instead of twisting my words, you'd see that I'm trying to see where you're coming from instead of instantly accusing you of being scum. It's not fencesitting, it's the healthy level of doubt required in Mafia lol.

So basically it feels like !scumMM concluding that its not in his interests to scumread me, so he doesnt.

And then the final layer of red paint.

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me. I'm slightly leaning towards the latter due to their lack of content (they literally popped in only to defend themselves and shade me, and said NOTHING about the rest of the thread's events) and due to the nature of the shade-throwing here. I'm open to the possibility of an Offsuit lynch today. I'd also like to see more content from them that isn't self-defense, so here's a question: what do you think about Norwee and about Superbowl, Offsuit?

For the record, this is why I think Offsuit would be a good lynch. There's also the "you beat me to it" post when someone called out Superbowl for his "explaining reads is bad" post, which Offsuit never really followed up on afterwards; yet he still recently called for a wagon on Superbowl instead of on Glitch, which is (even though I agree with the idea) a pretty bad progression. It doesn't even exclude SvS, because Offsuit put so little pressure on Superbowl that he could be getting free distanciation points, given the amount of pressure Superbowl has been under.

finally fixed the messy spoilers that made the post look really weird

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: SJReaver wallpost

Someone was supposed to ask 'but Reaver, why did you vote for 72?'

Thank you for asking, I shall tell you!

From my perspective, they had a single disagreement with superbowl over something NAI, voted them, and then picked up on things superbowl said afterwards to paint them as suspicious. This looks a lot like someone slipping onto a wagon after an actual townie and trying to blend in.

Do you have anything else on Bell besides that he's lamisting? Convince me i'm wrong

This comes from scum more often than it comes from town.
If anyone wants to wagon superbowl, I'm on it.

Meh, if you want something done well, do it yourself.

UNVOTE: Bell
VOTE: Superbowl

^ said this after Stanley already voted for superbowl. In a later post added 'beat me to the punch' as though he didn't see the vote.

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.
Let me break it down.

1. You say "I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw"
2. I disagree. I say it's highly unlikely that all the top volume posters are town, on the premise alone that scum would not allow town to dictate the game's trajectory by mostly just lurking. If there are active town posters, scum will usually interject and derail unless there is TvT aggro.
3. You say "You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO?"
4. That is clearly not what I said.

More votes on superbowl required

Choo Choo Choo!

"There is no way someone with a town mindset..." gives me pings. One of the things I learned in my first game was that townies have vastly different mindsets and ways of looking at things. I've read through 72's previous games and he's typically the person with the unusual mindset.

While I'm at it, I think it's clear what superbowl meant. Superbowl sees the most active posters as 'at each others throats.' As he assumes they're townie, the idea that they'd form a town block and need to be derailed strikes him as funny.

Could he have worded that better? Yes. But it's not hard to suss out his meaning with a second of reflection. This suggests 72 either had already decided to find superbowl's post 'scummy' or that he's too cognitively occupied to parse the comment. I consider this a possible scum trait--as a townie, we try to get into the heads of others. Scum already know who is townie and who is a baddie, so they're attempting to fake it.

I was reading Offsuit's ISO and thinking that they had very little progression on Superbowl and yet was going full "more votes on him are required". This case is actually pretty strong, and if Offsuit is scum, Superbowl is probably cleared by his flip.

VOTE: 72offsuit

Probably a better lynch than Superbowl, since it has good odds of red flip AND cleans Superbowl if the red flip happens. I also think SJR would be cleaned for this very post, because there's no reason for scum!SJR to make such a case against a scum!Offsuit at the time the case was made.


Also, a Glitch lynch sucks. Look at the utter lack of resistance to his lynch (excluding me lol). The case against him isn't even strong. Unvote him, stop the madness.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

girls, you are both pretty. (and town)

Glitch today, stan tomorrow

what about nero today, superbowl tomorrow?

What's up with the lynch lining-up lol? Nero is the most guilty here since he started it. I still don't like Nero btw.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think there's an intesting dynamic were Glitch doesn't want to join the MM wagon, Stan calls the MM wagon bad.

Are Glitch and Stan just scum thats defending bad town here?

Classy.

Are you going to ignore that I've been repeating that the Glitch wagon sucks?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I was hoping that's what you meant.

I think stan is town ngl

Why does that make you think he’s town?

Because it's a townie mindset. Scum stan would have no issue just saying they wouldn't mind chain-lynching as that would probably be easier but they didn't.

This might be true. I just wouldn't give too much weight to it, because it's rather easy to say that you don't want to line up lynches as either alignment. It doesn't make it any less pro-town or true, it's just not highly AI. I like your reasoning, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

"Nero started it!"

What is this grade school?


Stan is just as guilty as I am, although he later backs off b/c he's trying to look townie. Glitch's alignment won't change my feelings about Stan.

Lol no, you started lining up lynches and he replied by using the same kind of post, which is understandable.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You are using the "Norwee was pushed hard enough for scummates to want to save him" argument against Glitch and are pushing his lynch for it

I am 100% in favor of eliminating Nero but this is not an argument he ever made. This isn't even a misrep, this is a straight up lie, and I like the lal policy so I'll be okay supporting a MM elim now if the Nero wagon won't pick up enough traction to eliminate.

639
"lies" huh?

You aren't helping yourself by throwing stones at the guy defending you lol. And I think that scum would never be doing that, so town points for you.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think there's an intesting dynamic were Glitch doesn't want to join the MM wagon, Stan calls the MM wagon bad.

Are Glitch and Stan just scum thats defending bad town here?

Classy.

Are you going to ignore that I've been repeating that the Glitch wagon sucks?

????

If the Glitch wagon sucks so does your earlier vote and Stans vote on me since you are compacting part of my reasoning for wanting Glitch dead.

You are also arguing that if I think Glitch is scum (and I do!) his not wanting to vote you should have made my read on you switch wich is sorta

Uh no, I didn't say that lol.

I said that your analysis excludes my defense of Glitch; in other words, your analysis is not taking a big element into account. Not sure where you're getting the blue part from.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nero do you agree that Glitch should claim their full role?

I know I'm not Nero, but I think it'd be appropriate here. I strongly doubt he's getting killed tonight anyway, so there is little point in withholding his hardclaim.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I genuinely believe Nero is scum because of the arguments I've presented so far, but I also understand that I may be SR'ing him so hard cause I'm just pissed that he is tunneling me so hard.

I don't get this. You're pissed at him "tunneling you" but you believe he is scum at the same time? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
VOTE: Glitch

Ehhh, scum focusing the pressure on a specific townie is a thing. I get what you're saying, but I think it's wrong.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Stanley’s always an option, or what about the neon striped profile person? They seem pretty off base so far

Yeah VOTE: fwesnid

I'm beginning to like you more. You keep pushing for game advancement, and even if you were faking it (which would be a pretty bold and good move from you), you're actually making the game advance all the time, which is good.

I don't know what to think about Fwnesid or whatever their name is, though. Looks more like a pure AFK lynch to me than an actual scum lynch.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I genuinely believe Nero is scum because of the arguments I've presented so far, but I also understand that I may be SR'ing him so hard cause I'm just pissed that he is tunneling me so hard.

I don't get this. You're pissed at him "tunneling you" but you believe he is scum at the same time? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
VOTE: Glitch

Ehhh, scum focusing the pressure on a specific townie is a thing. I get what you're saying, but I think it's wrong.

That’s not the main issue here Though. Let’s say Nero is scum that’s pushing town!Glitch as Glitch pretends is the case, why would town!Glitch feel so much pressure and frustration at being scumread by who he believes is scum? Shouldn’t that be completely expected because scum do what they do? Why wouldn’t Glitch describe why Nero’s case on him is bad and scummy instead of talking about how "frustrating" it is for them to be scumread by scum?

I know people who stopped playing FM because the pressure in games was too high. Pressure is stressful, no matter who applies it.

I do agree that he should be more into the case refutation, though, but certainly not that his behavior "doesn't make any sense whatsoever".

[Marshmallow Marshall]

heres some examples of actual misreps

or wait, maybe im wrong.

If I SR you because of your play, and SR Norway because of his play, it is optimal to apply pressure, not to speculate blindfolded on a possible scum alliance. I am certainly not, in a game this large especially, going to speculate on players playing scum together right off the bat on D1.

he seems to be hinting that he thinks I was bussing norway. it's still weird mostly.

but it's said in such a roundabout way that it's just kinda ambiguous

glitch says he is not speculating on players being scum together. nero you say that he is hinting that you are bussing norway, which would suggest glitch is speculating you are both on the scum team - practically the opposite of what he said

Glitch today, stan tomorrow

what about nero today, superbowl tomorrow?

here i copy nero setting up a chain lynch. pretty sure this is very obvious that meant to be a parody at nero's expense and not serious, considering i posted it straight after he did in the same format, and was poses as a question to him.

if anybody wants to say that they misread it or the parody went over their head, then ill say thats fair as i cant prove otherwise. but saying this..

Stan is just as guilty as I am, although he later backs off b/c he's trying to look townie.

.. is taking twisting the truth to the next level.

100 % agreed about the last quotes. It's ridiculous, and no matter if some people like Norwee think that Nero is in his town meta, Nero is at the very least

wrong

here, if he's not just scum. I guess the potential attempt Nero made to reevaluate Glitch is rather towny here, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

but now suddenlty youre claiming "no no i wasnt misrepping him i just misread it"...? yea dont think so

eh. it might make me look bad and there is a theory that town should lie about things so they don't get in hot water but I rather tell the truth.

but saying that I misreped Glitch on purpose is ??? b/c why would I ever intentionally do that as scum?

Um, to get him lynched, which nearly happened? Lol

norwiege and sjr are towm im sure of it

VOTE: loot nothing i like

Please elaborate.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

eh...

I think a Glitch flip would say more about me but even then the "if X flips scum/town then that means Y is scum/town" arguments are bad.

but that's not enirely accurate. I said I didn't like how town looter fence sat on him then voted him. I've looked @ his ISO a few times and I'm just not seeing him as scummy. Why should I be voting him?

I think a glitch town flip would actually say very little about you, since you very easily (almost probably) are just town with a bad target/case of tunnelling. Glitch being scum would give you town points, although a bus for early towncred is not impossible here. However I don't really think a glitch flip really says a lot about anyone else in the game.

I usually agree that info flip arguments are bad but for the fwesnid wagon I kinda just chose them semi-randomly out of the lower post count section of players. For you to disagree with that wagon so strongly and it to flip red I think would seriously shade you. However if it goes green that gives you real townpoints because it's such an easy ML to go along with. This would also tell us about me, town looter, Reaver, everyone who had some type of reaction to the wagon before my it would be a good info flip post.

You don't have to vote if you don't want to but I just see nothing getting done by that slot and awkward post timing with 1265

Pedit: here you are Cain I was working on that one and ya sniped

I agree with the Fwesnid infolynch possibility here and with the reasoning given. Superbowl is actually towny, dunno what happened in the early game.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am

confident

I caught Scum!Norwee here. Please vote him with me

So let's sum it up. You think Norwee is scum because:

- he is not happy about you voting him
- he voted Glitch and then said he should claim when he was getting close to being lynched

This isn't very compelling lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So vote Fwesnid if you think he's scum.

I never said I thought him to be scum. He's certainly not doing anything towny though, so I'm considering doing it. Still dislike how you're making normal things look scummy or wrong (I said I liked the idea of an infolynch on him, and you just go "vote him if you think he's scum").

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think it's townie the way glitch phrased his claim.


VOTE: 72offsuit
They're the much worse half of the continuous argument with reaver that got overshadowed.

1138 is avoiding the reason reaver scumreads offsuit and instead asking for specifics of a tangent of the argument.

Is popping in right as you are getting wagoned a scum thing or just no?

Yes that is scummy jackson

Apologies for not doing the clearly townier option of not posting when a wagon forms.

Spoiler:

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

Actually answering my question. Thanks!

Why do the posts 'ping?' That's pretty ambiguous.

They seemed unnatural to me.

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

I might be chasing at shadows, but how do you know there is only one faction? The information that I can see specifies 5 mafia. Does that specifically exclude a group of 2 and a group of 3?

This is a weird question if you've read the op.
It states a 16v5 not a 16v3v2.

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

And it's inherently scummy to agree with you because...?
Maybe I'm missing something but that's how I interpret it.

I'm currently town on both Nero and Norway, since their play reminds me of their towngames. NPOM is prob town too, but shouldn't be listened to

My top townread is catscratch since this is voicing what I was thinking while reading though wasn't very confident on.
I'm also just liking their posting in general, specifically the questions she chooses to ask.


@Glitch I was the other person who took the 'bait' by saying

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

This post of Fwesnid's pinged as town for me, especially the last bit where he tells Glitch he (Fwesnid) is the other person I was SRing. I feel like scum would've probably ignored this.

That being said, they are definitely avoiding a lot of contribution. And their other game (where Fwesnid was scum), they were about the same in terms of activity (very quick skim). Hmmm...

I don't really get why you're thinking activity level is gonna be ai? Like I'm obviously not gonna come out posting many times a day since I wasn't before.

Unfortunately nero i think you are allowing stanley to look town here

But if we go with fwesnid Who nero just opposed for like no reason that flip will help us figure out nero for sure and in turn a lot of other stuff. Fwesnid is good for info and LAL even if you dont see scumminess

I'm not being wagoned for scumminess but rather for info.
The info I am being wagoned for is future tense as in generated by the wagoning.
This info generated which the wagon is currently standing on is "towniest player in the game is not sold on him being scum."
Did I miss anything?

Are you trying to save fwesnid here.

Imagine trying to make dead air.

This is horrible. Fwesnid is moving the accusation from the legitimate "popping in immediatly when you get voted is scummy [because it implies that you were here but chose not to post in order to lay low]" to "you should have chosen to remain silent instead", which is obviously not the point JV was trying to make. It's very, very hard to believe that this topic corruption was unintentional.

The rest of the post is highly unimpressive.

VOTE: Fwesnid

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Imagine writing a wall full of nothing but pointing out the obvious while forgetting to look at who on his wagon might be scum.

Superbowl and IKS is what I'm leaning towards.

Struggling with sorting offsuit/superbowl interaction though.
IKS doesn't have much in ISO outside of dowels.

That would require some explainations.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That's not much different than what you had before your wagon.

To look at who's votes felt most unnatural, which player's reasons sucked the most, etc.
You said you felt kind of stuck/lost earlier. That still the case?

@fwesnid, try shaking them a little. Like a tree. Like this.

"Why are people voting Fwesnid, why are you not voting Fwesnid and somebody else?" "If fwesnid isn't scum who is/who is scum on his wagon?"

If Fwesnid flips scum, this is looking very good for Bell. Why? Simply because that's the kind of coaching you do in scum chat, not in the game thread lol. The only logical and not very weird possibility here is that Bell is genuinely trying to figure Fwesnid's alignment out, assuming scum!Fwesnid.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Glitch
Nero is not happening today. Who else do you want to lynch?

Fwesnid, Offsuit, and as a last resort, that Ralph guy who's not posting anything but contentless, effortless and unfunny one-liners. Thoughts?

Also Norwee, you're not screaming Town atm. I am worried.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also Norwee, you're not screaming Town atm. I am worried.

Can you please stop this kind of baseless shade?
If you think i’m scum then explain why instead.
I’m sick of constantly reading different variations of: "why aren’t you super duper town? " to shade me.

It’s like this is the game where my level of experience is starting to haunt me and now i’m seen as scum if i don’t put in the effort to towntell every page. It’s so annoying.

Heh, that's right. I've seen you play a very good town game in which you were rather obvtown in my opinion (although not in everyone's apparently), and I expect some level of obvtownness from you now. Maybe that's a bit evil lol, but that's still what I think =)
It doesn't mean that I scumread you or that I think people should scumread you. It just means that I want to say it to see your reaction. And your reaction is... not too bad, although it falls into AtE. Meh. Just be towny and you'll have no problems

[Marshmallow Marshall]

now I want to vote Fwesnid so when/if he flips scum I can pl MM and his ridiculous posts

Suggesting that I should be policy lynched is laughable at best. I fart in your general direction.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Btw kinda irrelevant but last day or 2 my read on superbowl has done an 180 from scum to hard towny

The exact same thing is true for me. I like that we're both seeing the same things, including about Nero.

Also, Norwee unvoting someone at L-1 when we have days to discuss is not scummy. You can call it suboptimal theory-wise (which it is not necessarily, by the way, but I won't go down that rabbit hole), but you can't just say it's scummy and that he should be lynched for it. I understand there was a reasoning behind it given by A50, but it doesn't make the point right.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

i almost feel like we have a near 0% to flip scum today b/c the scummiest players (glitch, stan, a50, town looter, SJR and Ralp (well maybe Ralph) are not going to be flipped today.

I have a vague memory of you saying some stuff against SJR, but don't remember it well. However, I really don't think you have said anything significant about town looter. What are they doing in your list? I'm saving you the trouble of explaining about Ralph lol, but I don't get the two first reads.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So many posts to read... and I'm seeing I'm alone one Fwesnid now? What happened to that wagon, did he reveal as innocent child or something?

If Lapsa scum= still no idea who teammates are because they haven’t said anything of relevance.

Glitch has been talking up a pl on Lapsa since his first post and had him as a light scum read in one of his posts. When fre was getting wagoned ralph vanity voted lapsa. I think its a somewhat common scum tactic for scum to sit there and vanity vote thier buddy while town lynched town. Could lapsa be getting bussed here?

It’s a possibility that should be looked at if he flips scum. But i’d prefer us all to just vote someone like Almost50 because it’s more informative over all. And 72 is looking better to me for bringing up scummy things he thinks A50 has done.
VOTE: Almost50
Uncle Norwee needs you to do your part for the town. Are you patriotic enough?

I'll check what Offsuit said about A50, but it could just be that he's sheeping a part of the town to get off the hook lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hiraki
Pickaxe Pete

Alisae
I Keep Siteflaking

Fwesnid
JacksonVirgo
Bell
Nero Cain

stan1ey

Almost50
superbowl9
NoPowerOverMe
SJReaver

Marshmallow Marshall
ralph217

72offsuit

Titus
NorwegianboyEE

Town looter

Glitch

Lapsa


So im literally @ town looter, empty Ali and Lapsa slots, ralph, MM abd I guess IKS b/c they are prety null to me

Are these people you want and think that can lynch today?
If yes, why exclude Titus? I find this slot as one of the most null slot in the game.
Why not VOTE: 72?

Spoiler:

If theres 1 thing i hate it’s people bailing from a wagon for bs reasons. Finish your wagons properly ppl. Although im totally fine if we just move over to stanley.

72 why are you still scumreading me when you initially did so because you couldn’t understand what i said?

Superbowl = Scum case:

64 Can't really nail exactly, but this post's tone pings me. Just doesnt sound like its coming from a town perspective.
Who gives too hoots what is "correct" or not.

152 Why is anything more than LAMIST required in the early phase of day 1? If !townNBEE had any further reads as to why Bell
might be scum he would've outed them. Feels super forced and unnatural.

This post is enough for a kick on its own.

346
"I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable"

He is clearlly saying he doesnt think scum is likely to be active because it is high risk low reward.
Even if this is true, who says scum plays "optimally" 100% of the time?
Speaks to a scum-frame-of-mind too.

452
"Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats"

COMPLETELY misreads what I'm saying. Either intentionally misreads or simply doesnt care enough to try and decipher my intent.
Scummy either way.

is the only "good" post he has made.

Agreed with that suggestion, btw. His post about Superbowl is just sheeping what had already been said by a few people, including myself. It's not bad, but it's nothing original either.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Fwes

It's Saturday so I won't be around much because it's my DnD day. Just consider me voting the largest wagon.

Claiming now to save time.
I am a

3-shot loud gunsmith.

Vote for me if you think I'm scum who's gonna repeatedly claimed blocked or a mafia loud rolecop/gunsmith/follower.

Didn't crumb since loud is provable, and if I got no gun I'd crumb 'inno' such that their person I visited would hopefully see it, when I got a gun result I'd ask the person to roleclaim at start of day after saying I have a guilty.

You better not all cfd norwee because iT'S tHe lArGeSt wAgOn.
That can be part of the reason but that should not be the entire reason.

My top scumreads right now are offsuit and titus.

Oh well that changes things. I believe him (or at least think that he is dead tomorrow if it's a lie anyway). VOTE: 72offsuit

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: blah

Im no, that’s just an bonus. I scumread A50 for other reasons, i thought you were paying attention to the game?

Why don't you lay all your cards on the table? Tell everyone you are confused and can't tell if I am a PR or not, because I didn't bother crumbing my role as I replaced in. Your confusion is now serious because you don't know whether you should shoot me (or at the very least RB me) or not. You don't want to risk it because I SR you and thus EVEN IF you are not eliminated there's a chance I might return a guilty on you if I am an investigative, but if I am not then you need not worry about that. In short, you hope that you could get me to claim before the day is over, directly or indirectly.

Dude you can have delusions about my supposed worry about PR's as much as you want, it won't come true.

THANK YOU.

This response

confirms

Norwee

knows

I am TOWN. Otherwise, I wouldn't be "delusional". I would be "faking".

I really was expecting more than: "Aha!! Gotcha! You used a word!" to explain why you're so aggressive and confident, but i guess that was too much to ask for.

Honestly, I don't see why scum!A50 uses so weak arguments against Norwee here. Would he seriously expect that post to convince

anyone

? He's experienced, he should know that this post only discredits his case if he's scum. I tend to see this as town being wrong rather than as scum trying to pull a terribly crappy mislynch.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Dude you can have delusions about my supposed worry about PR's as much as you want, it won't come true.

THANK YOU.

This response

confirms

Norwee

knows

I am TOWN. Otherwise, I wouldn't be "delusional". I would be "faking".

No, it doesn't. Even as a 'scum syntax' argument, this is weak.

I know you're smarter than this so I'm wondering what the deal is.

The deal is that he's falling apart from the seams due to the cognitive pressure of rolling scum. You don't have to waste time trying to understand him, he's just scum.

Okay... on a scale of the opposite of towny to scummy, how bad is this post? "You don't have to try to read him yourself, just sheep me" as a reply to a serious post that closes a conversation is horrible lol. Could Norwee actually be scum... hmmmmm. It definetly has to be considered. And I'm not voting A50.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

[Insert quotes I deleted because it was really long here]

How many Sheeping Trophies does Pickaxe Pete have in his basement?

Wow, good catch. Do you think that is indicative of scum alignment or of lazy town?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ISOin A50 a bit

I genuinely believe Nero is scum because of the arguments I've presented so far, but I also understand that I may be SR'ing him so hard cause I'm just pissed that he is tunneling me so hard.

I don't get this. You're pissed at him "tunneling you" but you believe he is scum at the same time? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
VOTE: Glitch

VOTE: Nor-boy

Voting a claimed PR on D1 is just...

Not great, but not lynch-worthy either?

Nero do you agree that Glitch should claim their full role?

Keep obv!scumming

Pretty empty

Nero do you agree that Glitch should claim their full role?

yeah prob

Wait, wait...

Would a specific claim actually change your mind here? If you think he's lying now, I don't know that a claim would make you believe him.

Here's the thing:
1. Glitch is scum. He makes a claim. Will another PR feel the need to cross claim?
2. Glitch is PR. He makes a claim. If we don't believe him, he dies today. If we do believe him, he dies tonight.

Almost, but not quite.

Nor wants the full claim so he/his team can evaluate on when they should be shooting Glitch (or if they can let him live for now or if they can counter his night action.. etc).

For example, it would be a waste to RB someone who is an EVEN-Night (something).

So here's the actual matter A50 is attacking Norwee about; the stuff that followed is just the result of an overly tunnelled push, no matter what both their alignments are (and it's crap).

And it gets demolished by a simple sentence.

Couldn't he simply want Glitch to claim if he's a confirmable PR to get this off the table?

Really, it isn't compelling, and Norwee's reaction to it that A50 called "overreaction" is legitimate in my opinion, because the case against him is very weak and certainly doesn't warrant a push as strong as A50's. Note that I'm not saying A50 is scummy for it, but saying that he's wrong (or right for the wrong reasons).

EoP 52, and I REALLY can't comprehend how Norwee's tail isn't catching fire already.

Lol

Summary of my thoughts on Norwee - A50: A50's case is bad and unconvincing, but not scummy; in fact, I townread him now. As for Norwee, I have some doubts, but not at all because of what A50 said. His tone feels off, and his way of just labelling A50 as certainly scum is strange. I am aware that this isn't very compelling lol, and am not asking anyone to sheep me on Norwee either. I actually want to see more from him. But for now, I'm slightly leaning towards scum!Norwee.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Glitch and Fwesnid are annoying. I am fairly sure there is a fake/scum PR claim in one of these, but not sure which.

Fwesnid is a self-solving slot now, so there is zero need to bother thinking about it (unless I misunderstood what a loud gunsmith is).

Glitch seems towny to me, and he has a ???? PR claim in the air, so I don't think you should be bothered by him. All will come in due time.

Can you tell me why you think Hiraki is scum, btw? I don't get it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Fwesnid is a self-solving slot now, so there is zero need to bother thinking about it (unless I misunderstood what a loud gunsmith is).

They could be a scum aligned loud gunsmith though right?

Can you tell me why you think Hiraki is scum, btw? I don't get it.

I feel like they are trying to drive town in a direction, while being cryptic with their explanations. Both rubs me the wrong way, and feels scummy.

pedit: no. but plenty of others have low confidence in it, so I was kinda following their lead.

Uhh, yes, that's true, apparently Loud is a "normal" modifier for any alignment. That means he has to get townier than that once he proves he actually is a loud gunsmith lol.

Ah ok... Sheep the Hiraki scumread is a mystery to me for everyone, and I don't like to see that some people are actually sheeping that. If anyone scumreading Hiraki could explain their point a bit, it'd be appreciated.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A50: A50's case is bad and unconvincing, but not scummy; in fact, I townread him now

Someone’s case is completely shit and you TR them for it?

More or less, yes! I just don't see the scum intent behind the case against you. Scum!A50, given his level of experience, can't seriously believe that he will convince town to mislynch town!Norwee by saying what he said; therefore, it has to come from a town mindset.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

in fairness, a50 is prob town. MM's posting is wonky and I keep going back and forth on them but he seems like the kind of player that will town read mostly scum and scum read all town but he'll still be right sometimes b/c its almost nearly impossible to have no correct town reads.

Would I be asking too much if I were to ask you to stop calling me a shit player 2/3 times you address me because I don't agree with you? Like seriously, fuck off lol, that's chlidish

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A50: A50's case is bad and unconvincing, but not scummy; in fact, I townread him now

Someone’s case is completely shit and you TR them for it?

More or less, yes! I just don't see the scum intent behind the case against you. Scum!A50, given his level of experience, can't seriously believe that he will convince town to mislynch town!Norwee by saying what he said; therefore, it has to come from a town mindset.

Have you ever heard of "Burden of Proficiency"?

I think I see where you're going with this, but I don't agree. I'm not saying A50 is a wise old man, I'm just saying he's out of the "relatively new to the game" zone, and that's enough for me to think he can't believe he would convince anyone to lynch you over what he said.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VC1.17

With 21 alive it takes 11 to eliminate

Almost50 (5):

NorwegianboyEE, 72offsuit, Titus, JacksonVirgo, NoPowerOverMe

NorwegianboyEE (3):

Almost50, stan1ey, Glitch

Lapsa (2):

ralph217, Nero Cain

72offsuit (2):

, Fwesnid, superbowl9

NoPowerOverME (2):

Hiraki, Pickaxe Pete

Fwesnid (1):

Marshmallow Marshall

Not Voting (6):

[Lapsa], [Alisae], Town looter, Bell, I Keep Siteflaking, SJReaver

Deadline:

FROZEN

Mod Notes:

1. searching for a replacement for Lapsa & Alisae
   
2. 2006 will not be counted as I cant decypher who the intended target is

@Nero Cain

Nice discredit again

Only looking at my individual reads on each A50 voter, Offsuit and maybe Titus would be scum here (Titus being a pretty inactive and low-content slot).

I'm seeing NoPowerOverMe in the list and am thinking that they are pretty unlikely to be scum, given the interaction with Norwee. Either Norwee is town like I originally thought and is telling the truth about NoPower playing in their meta (which makes sense), or Norwee is scum and he's telling the truth to pocket NoPower. I don't see scum!Norwee protecting scum!NoPower that openly (see early D1).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

More or less, yes! I just don't see the scum intent behind the case against you. Scum!A50, given his level of experience, can't seriously believe that he will convince town to mislynch town!Norwee by saying what he said; therefore, it has to come from a town mindset.

This is a viewpoint I can appreciate.

The few times I've read posts that seemed like schizoid paranoia, the posters were townies.

Exactly.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

More or less, yes! I just don't see the scum intent behind the case against you. Scum!A50, given his level of experience, can't seriously believe that he will convince town to mislynch town!Norwee by saying what he said; therefore, it has to come from a town mindset.

even though I'm kinda town reading a50 now this is shit reasoning. But I'm a little confused here. If a50 is town and (i know you don't think norway is town but for the sake of the argument) norway is town, who are the scum on his wagon?


lol @ the idea of BOPing a50.

Why are

you

townread A50, if my reasoning is so shitty, btw?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

townread

ing*

I think his reaction to getting wagoned and raging @ me is somethng that a50 has done in the past. I can certianly get manipulated but yeah...

I just checked his ISO, and I would not call what he did "raging" at all, just defending himself (and even then, he didn't defend himself vehemently).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hello World (again)! Welcome to the replacements :p

a50 feels different than the game i played with him. he was scum in it.

This makes me double down on my A50 townread.

Also, I like Yggdrasil's entrance. Asking a lot of good questions from the point of view of someone who just landed in a town slot 90 pages in.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Everybody who's played with him are getting wildly different reads and levels of confidence on him.
I thought he was obvscum, then slowly I've shifted to neutral.

In short, Norwe is a land of contrasts.
Not lurking at all though and he can do that as scum.

In my experience, those who have that kind of reads on them in a specific game without making an habit out of it are town, btw. Scum tend leave less room for such a diversity because their behavior always has the "I don't want to be seen as doing XYZ when people will read my post" constraint.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

okay.

next question: who is scum?

You.

VOTE: norwegian

this is a soul-vote until i figure out if 72 is a good wagon

Lol. THis is horrible. Looking for an excuse to vote me. There are 5 scum and 16 town. From !townyou PoV, its 5 scum and 15 town, so I'm 75% town without you reading anything.
That;s why your post is scummy as shit

also wow this vc is everywhere.

what's your opinion on 72 and a50? they have the most but that's not saying a lot atm.

This is also terrible

also wow this vc is everywhere.

what's your opinion on 72 and a50? they have the most but that's not saying a lot atm.

You have also played with me previously. Why did you compare a50's prior games to this one, but not mine?

All of these posts are so terribly meh it makes me wonder if 72 isn't too scummy to be scum and just an awkward player. Maybe that's just because I've put my mind completely off the game for days though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A bit late to say this, but i don’t think i’ve ever seen Alisae replace out of a game like they did. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

Yeah: this is angleshooting and definetly shouldn't be read into.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why are we voting superbowl?

This post really sucks. I think !townFlaker would be more likely to target a specific player or 2 that pinged him badly to question there motive in voting rather than a open ended question to which noone is accountable to.

This is a weird kind of meta, but I guess meta arguments are pretty hard to attack when you don't know the meta, so I'll leave it at that.

Since when "player A and player B are more likely to be scum than other players" and "player A and player B are not scum together" contradicts each other?

Awkward scum not knowing how to contribute to town, so posts this drivel.

Uh no, pointing an error in someone's thought process isn't "awkward scum" lol, that's what everyone does in a game that is (at least partially) about arguing.

I have a feeling that Glitch is trying to pressure/ sort his 2 strongest scumreads, even though they (perhaps) aren't scum together.
Nero, where can you see that Glitch is pushing your/ Norwegian's lynch, rather than sorting you?

Pings ++ here.
Why are pushing a wagon on a player who pings you and sorting a player;s alignment mutually exclusive?

Wasn't he asking Nero where

he

was seeing that? And therefore shouldn't you be accusing Nero of it instead of Flake?

VOTE: Glitch
I want to know what he will do when pressured.

L-2

Forecasting the reason for your vote doesn't feel like town trying to trap scum.

This is probably the only valid-ish concern in your entire case.

UNVOTE:
I want to see his defence, not his claim.

LAMIST. Wants to see Glitch's defence, but then doesnt make actual comment on what he thinks of the way that Glitch defended.

"I want him to defend himself by his behavior, not with a mechanical claim, so I'm putting him off the hook a bit"
Yeah, he definetly wanted people to remark his townness here... yesn't.

VOTE: LXXII

It's Seven Deuce. Not seventy-two. It's not rocket science.

lol

Hiraki
Pickaxe Pete

Alisae
I Keep Siteflaking

Fwesnid
JacksonVirgo
Bell
Nero Cain

stan1ey

Almost50
superbowl9
NoPowerOverMe
SJReaver

Marshmallow Marshall
ralph217

72offsuit

Titus
NorwegianboyEE

Town looter

Glitch

Lapsa


So im literally @ town looter, empty Ali and Lapsa slots, ralph, MM abd I guess IKS b/c they are prety null to me

Are these people you want and think that can lynch today?
If yes, why exclude Titus? I find this slot as one of the most null slot in the game.
Why not VOTE: 72?

Spoiler:

If theres 1 thing i hate it’s people bailing from a wagon for bs reasons. Finish your wagons properly ppl. Although im totally fine if we just move over to stanley.

72 why are you still scumreading me when you initially did so because you couldn’t understand what i said?

Superbowl = Scum case:

64 Can't really nail exactly, but this post's tone pings me. Just doesnt sound like its coming from a town perspective.
Who gives too hoots what is "correct" or not.

152 Why is anything more than LAMIST required in the early phase of day 1? If !townNBEE had any further reads as to why Bell
might be scum he would've outed them. Feels super forced and unnatural.

This post is enough for a kick on its own.

346
"I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable"

He is clearlly saying he doesnt think scum is likely to be active because it is high risk low reward.
Even if this is true, who says scum plays "optimally" 100% of the time?
Speaks to a scum-frame-of-mind too.

452
"Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats"

COMPLETELY misreads what I'm saying. Either intentionally misreads or simply doesnt care enough to try and decipher my intent.
Scummy either way.

is the only "good" post he has made.

Why do you only question ONE out of about 13 crossed out palyers? And the player you question is based on activity, rather than based on actual content?
Why not state your own thoughts regarding the other 12 or so players on the list?

Because he thinks you're scummy and wants to ask about YOU? That's not scummy.

VOTE: I Keep Siteflaking

This case is bad and certainly doesn't support a Flake vote well lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

also if i have to pick btwn the two top wagons right now i'll vote 72.

the people on that wagon seem like townier folk

Zero reasoning.

Are you flailing? Although I admit it isn't the strongest argument ever known to mankind, it's still a reasoning, and missing it in a post that has TWO SENTENCES is

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM, can I ask you a question? You are town reading a50 b/c you think he would not have had such a horrible case on norway, right? Meanwhile, you were scumreading me b/c my reason for voting norway earlier was bad. You being selective about this is just conf bias and not scum logic from you right?

For voting Glitch, not Norway. And your case actually had some kind of "good look", unlike A50's which obviously wouldn't convince anyone. Yours would and did. I'm not being "selective".

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ah yes,

loud

gunsmith. VOTE: Fwesnid

Unless someone claimed to have recieved a gun from him, my vote goes there.
Loud modifier:

The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that they were targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that they were targeted by Player A, but not that they used cop.

A loud gunsmith is immediatly confirmable, since the target will recieve feedback of both having been gifted a gun and having been visited by the player. No feedback on this either means that Fwesnid is scum or that he is town who targeted scum, in which case the vigi (very likely to exist since we have two kills, and Pete looks like a prime vigi target to me given his hammer lol) can shoot the scum at night once Fwesnid says who he targeted.

~~

I am very selfishly happy that Nero died, because he was a big issue in my reads, seeing his flip. Guess we should look at Glitch a bit more closely, although I still don't get Nero's case on him.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

k, thanks.

I want to hear what glitch has to say since he mentioned he could activate his role day 2 in a semi helpful manner.
While his bigger stuff is day 4.
Though, yeah. Don't mistake me. I suspect it.

Town Arsonist

In all seriousness though, I agree that we should hear from him.

Don't hammer without claim from now on. We have a vigi and don't want to random lynch him/her.

this is IIoA

Uh... no? It's a valid warning to everyone. What makes you say that? This looks more like shade throwing than anything else

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That’s not what gunsmith does on this site, confused me too

Oh... okay so it's a gun detector. Why not call it a gun detector then, or "Firearms Inspector" like its "alias" in the wiki page then xD

Aaaaanyway. That is a lot less confirmable than I thought, because there isn't really a way to find his real role out unless he actually catches someone with a gun. That actually brings the question "why did his wagon die yesterday?", though, since people who know that know that it's pretty hard to confirm.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

welcome Nero Cain. You are a

town disloyal roleblocker.

Nero was probably on me last night.

That... is a terrible post. Unless there's something from Nero that I missed, since he was disloyal, the only way for you to know is to be scum xD

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok fine.
We’re lynching MM most likely anyway. Can worry about Glitch later.

Exactly, this is best-case scenario. We get a conf scum elim, which is like the only way to delay this fullclaim in a manner that doesn’t require us to trust glitch

Uhuhuhuhuhuhuh since when is my lynch the best case scenario lol?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Alright.. I did try to read the thread... here's how it went:

Spoiler: This is as far as I went before switching the approach

Why do you feel the need to put "reason" next to every vote you make?

Why do you need to ask?

He was making a joke. Not a good one, but it's Bell. You have to make allowances.

Cruel

TBH, at the start of my catch up I had the intention to give my all to impress SJReaver more. She seems to have given me more credit that I deserve and it gave me a boost (if someone's not following I refer them to post #38).

However, as I kept reading I realized there's no way I'm going to match my performance in that game here. Not even close. Over there I had multiple flips and many players I was familiar with. Here I have at least 9 players I've never played with before, and only 5 that I have played more than twice with (make that 6 if you count Ydrasse's predecessors).

Furthermore, SJR replacing out killed the main motive I had to go all in. It' unlikely that I would impress someone like Norwee for instance ( )

Finally, it becomes harder and harder to format the listing if "every possible team" with 5/19 (myself and offsuit are auto-excluded already), so I decided to do it another way, so I am mainly townhunting unless something jumps out at me as an obvious scum move.

Anyway, off to work:

My TRs -in no particular order- include: Pickaxe, Looter, Ydrasse, Bell, Glitch, superbowl, DoLittle, Reaver,

Note: The list was edited and reordered (randomized, actually) several times to conceal the "when and why". I stopped @page "twenty something".

Other reads:

Nero is "probably town" but only because I know Nero. His content is as scummy as always. One example is taking advantage of superbowl's garammatical mistake (not using a separator after "Disagree" in post 45 and clipping out the second sentence (which made it clear what SB was saying was the opposite of what Nero nade it look like he was saying). (This also happened from NPOM with Looter in post 67 right above Nero's)

Titus is

suspicious

because of her claim

. Why the hell would a Babysitter never claim their role? NOT EVEN IF I WAS PUT @L-1 would I be claiming that. If you're town, you KNOW you're a prime NK target. I know determining your target is WIFOM at best, but it's far more likely you'll be on TOWN on N1.

As scum, the Babysitter claim discourages any Vig shots on them.

Still, it's Titus, so I don't have a confident SR there. Just a FoS.

Fwesnid's claim is likely Town. I can see how it could be a Scum GS, but I am leaning Town still.

Hiraki is likely Town too, but I have no strong argument to support it.

Of the remaining six (Norwee aside) I dislike NPOM the most, but I have nothing good to say about the rest of them.

Norwee I still don't like, but he doesn't make much sense as scum with most of this PoE pool, so I dunno anymore.

Lifting the burden of proficiency, heh?
Understandable move as either alignment I guess.

Why I felt the need to ask SJR about her "Reason:" stuff? Because it's overly formal and justify-y, and that is often scummy.

I like the "other reads" section and actually agree with most of them, or at least with the principle behind them (the Nero read really rings a bell to me, for example, given the "I townread him but only because I know him" part). As for Titus, I agree that in a world of absolutes and of perfect human beings, Titus is very scummy for that claim (I had to check what a Babysitter was ), but since we aren't in this world and that humans can make mistakes, I think it's actually not so weird. Weird claims like these often come from confused townies or really, really new scum, and I don't think she's a really, really new scum.

As for the unexplained townreads, can you elaborate a bit on Looter, Bell and DoLittle? I have iffy feelings about Looter, think that Bell is towny and contributing as well as he can, and no read at all on DoLittle, but I don't know how you came to your conclusions here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok fine.
We’re lynching MM most likely anyway. Can worry about Glitch later.

Exactly, this is best-case scenario. We get a conf scum elim, which is like the only way to delay this fullclaim in a manner that doesn’t require us to trust glitch

Uhuhuhuhuhuhuh since when is my lynch the best case scenario lol?

Any reason why you aren't confscum here?

Uh yes, I have a green rolecard lol. Any reason why I should be confscum in your eyes?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

*Magnet Noises*

Actual thoughts coming this evening don't have time now.

Why wouldn't you drop in your results?

Magnet noises is reference to our pr hunting skills as in I found a gun.
Not (Read: shouldn't be) my job to say who.

Does it not make sense that scum killing Nero is intended to set up a lynch on me or glitch?

I don't feel like lynching a claimed or today.

Nero wanted stanley dead I think.
VOTE: stanley

I just think this is a terrible reason to vote for me. How often do scum kill the person who scum reads them for the intention of getting them off their case? Just leads a trail back to them surely

Why would scum not kill Nero? It is an advantageous way to get D2 townies to turn on me and Stanley. That would be the most smart move. Why is it scummy to recognize that that setup is not a bad idea for scum?

These look both coordinated and unnatural.

Hmmm, if I were to take a guess, I would say Titus is town, Fwesnid is scum, and Glitch is ???

Fwesnid not releasing results screams of "I need time to talk to my scum team about strategy".

VOTE: Fwesnid

You have already forgotten I'm loud in favor of calling me scum.
(Your progression on me makes 0 sense.)

I'd argue Glitch is worse. But ok. If not Fwesnid or Glitch, then who?

Titus??? Your last few posts have been if not straight scummy definitely crazy

Yeah, I am well out of my depth on this one. Reason I flip-flopped on Titus was I thought the babysitter claim seemed more reasonable given IKS confirming, and the sequence on the bottom of page 111 seemed towny (especially since I seem to have a strong bias in my Fwesnid read).

But something is definitely not adding up. So far we have:

• A watcher (now dead, confirmed town)
  
• A beefed up roleblocker (now dead, confirmed town)
  
• A 3-shot gunsmith
  
• A babysitter
  
• A delayed, but supposedly powerful, mystery PR
  
• A vigilante or other secondary kill mechanism

This seems like a lot, would I be right in saying it's almost certain that there is scum in [Glitch, Fwesnid, Titus]?

pedit: I think SB answered my question

I think this setup is totally possible w/ 5 scum but to hit 4/5 of those PRs D/N1 is a little hard to believe, especially because Fwesnid and titus were kinda random pushes by me. Either someone's lying or we have a 6th scum

"were kinda random pushes by me" just

screams

catching scum.

My expectation is that roughly half of town would have a power role, so I don't think it's too much power, though can agree it's very unlucky if all real.

If you get vigged wouldn't that kill the person you babysat? If I was vigi I'd rather shoot a quickhammerer who is probably going to be elimmed ASP anyways than try for you (although I do think you would make a marginally better shot than the avg)

Yes. It would. I felt it was much more likely that I would be vigged, given my state, than guessing the nightkill correctly. Does it mean that either would happen? No. I made a judgment call. If I wasn't widely suspected or townread, I would go for the heal.

This looks like a town mindset to me.


Would vote stan1ey here but I should see what my check says first.

Ohohhoho I think I get it now UNVOTE: gotta read a bit more.

You think Nero got both Glitch and Stan, and that they're coordinating to pull the push away from them? To me, it just looks like two players being pushed and holding the save view: that the reasons for which they're being pushed are bad.

What about Looter's progression on you makes no sense? I don't think the progression of

anyone

on you can be described as making no sense, since you've been a slot labelled as "to solve later/mechanically" yesterday.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Uh yes, I have a green rolecard lol. Any reason why I should be confscum in your eyes?

Because Fwneswid claims you have a gun...and your reaction was to ignore it after being informed of what a gunsmith does...

VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

MM were you visited by Fwes last night?

VOTE: MM

Ayyy so I was right to conclude that by reading Fwesnid's wallpost lol. I didn't see his claim of having checked me tho, sorry for being a bit slow, I'm not caught up.

So uh, it's a little bit strange, because I was not notified of anything last night... but I do have a gun. I'm a vigilante, and shot Pickaxe Pete last night for rather obvious reasons. I have 2 breadcrumbs btw, let me quote them.

AND UNVOTE ME YE FOOLS

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hello, I exist. More catch-up to do, it seems.

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

Yeah your 2 pages are just basic information and not really things that are pushy/pushable, hence why it's IIoA.

I know you want me to go point by point through so you can undermine my position, but that literally makes no sense because I'm saying you've been cluttering the thread with basic info. Why would I respond to/elaborate upon that basic info lol?

Also dude you have literally OMGUSed everyone who has slighted you. Idk why you view this as a "discredit" because (at least imo) OMGUS is pretty NAI in most cases but it's just funny to point out when you OMGUS scumread someone then say they're OMGUSing.

V

ery convenient for you lol, you get to not explain your reads!

I

think that's what you wanted, hm?

G

reat discredit again, btw.

I

'd like you to at least back it up A BIT with some quotes, if you don't mind.

Back then, I was planning on shooting Superbowl (hence why it was in reply to him), but then my read changed. I made another post that I cannot find that was either replying directly to Offsuit or talking about him in which I made the same code (the capital letters of each sentence start spell "VIGI"), since I planned on shooting him. But then he was lynched before I could come to the thread, and Pickaxe Pete's hammer and general lack of content was just... eww, and the info obtained by lynching him would have been basically zero since noone really interacted with him, perhaps minus about me because of my early game super-weak townread on him, so I shot him.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yep good play. MM def just check with scum chat and they told him to claim vigi to out another PR. Lets elim this

Pedit: you can send it to Bell, he’s our admissions officer

No u. And I can't find my second damn breadcrumb lol, maybe I just had the intent to do it or something but anyway

I AM UN-CCED VIGILANTE CLAIMING THE ONLY VIGI SHOT IN THE GAME AS OF NOW (assuming Nero was killed by mafia, which is very likely since they very probably want to kill someone lol). VOTING ME IS R I D I C U L O U S.

NOW TO MORE IMPORTANT MATTERS. I recieved NO FEEDBACK last night, so Fwesnid isn't loud, although he definetly is Gunsmith or some other kind of rolecop. Now... why would he lie about being loud?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM is just caught scum...?
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

Can you elaborate on this now that I've claimed & crumbed & am un-CCed? Because I'm having doubts on you atm.

By the way, throwing an idea out there... If I survive the day, is there opposition to me shooting at Norwee if I find him scummy? I'm still deliberating in my brain about his alignment, and his answer to my question will probably determine what I'll do.

Why did you have to be evil.
You red red communist Marshall Zhukov.

ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE! BOOOOOO

This might just be a sort by post count game.

Bow before me peasant.

LOOK! LOOK! SEE THE OPPRESSION INHERENT TO THE SYSTEM??? HELP!!!! I'M BEING REPRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Crumb doesn’t change much imo. The one thing I do wanna bring up is if scum loudblocked fwes to set this up, which I think would point to fwes being red and asking his own team to block him for this scenario. But that’s something we can evaluate if MM flips green which is highly unlikely

That loudblock makes very little sense. If I hadn't been Vigilante in this scenario, Fwesnid would just be really susp because noone would be able to give a loud feedback, unless a scummate commits and claims to have the loud feedback.

I'm not scum tho

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Id also like to mention this only further looks bad for town looter

I initially thought it did, but now that the truth is out; don't you think Scum would already know if their p was targeted by someone with a loud modifier?

Yes they would but i still think trying to push fwes before he spilled his result would make sense from scum, trying to cast doubt on his report

Pedit @MM: well buddy if you actually are vigi then we flip you and get fwesnid in a 1:1 trade, so you’re not gettin out of this. Also stop CC baiting pls, if you want to discuss whether a CC is warranted here then go ahead but yelling “CC ME PLS” is not helping you look any townier

I'm rather saying that I'm un-CCed lol, and there's no CC to bait since noone can CC me..........

Also, I fear Fwesnid is not scum here, because it makes no sense for scum!Fwesnid to do that, especially as a non-loud role, because it will necessarily end up being a 1v1 trade at best, and just him dying at worst. It'd be a really strange strategy.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@MM, are you just a vigi that can shoot every night? Or is it X-shot or something. Curious


Also real vigi don't claim

I can shoot every night. I also have

something else

that you don't have to know lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Can a scum JOAT have a vigi shot?

I'm pretty sure that all of the tinfoils you're suggesting and will suggest aren't Normal lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Don’t let MM out our real vigilante.

When I flip Vigilante, you'll want to defend yourself with more than "oh but the check...". Why am I scum? You're kinda doing like you did when you said someone (I think A50) was scum and that noone had to ask questions about it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@MM, are you just a vigi that can shoot every night? Or is it X-shot or something. Curious


Also real vigi don't claim

I can shoot every night. I also have

something else

that you don't have to know lol.

Considering you're pretty much outted scum, you should probably claim instead of doing a glitch.

Nah not right now at least.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Don’t let MM out our real vigilante.

When I flip Vigilante, you'll want to defend yourself with more than "oh but the check...". Why am I scum? You're kinda doing like you did when you said someone (I think A50) was scum and that noone had to ask questions about it.

I'll take my chances on you flipping scum.

Aight well I guess there's no point in withholding the

something else

if Norwee is just going to be mute... I am a

vengeful

vigilante. No shot restrictions, as I said.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

even if mm is vig, i don't trust him with the gun anyway so...

Unvote, Vote: MM

Well you're going to be sad 'cause I'll get a last bullet xD

Norwee, I'll ask again, why am I scum? Also, what are your thoughts on A50 now?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm not scum tho

Let me tell you something: Your response to my "scum claim" was exactly what I would have expected from scum. Town usually miss that "modifier" thing and just move on. So, without factoring in ANYTHING else:

superbowl's reaction was TOWN. He saw through it all and kept his mouth shut.
Virgo's reaction was towards the town side of null. he was confused, which is more or less NAI, but he still didn't try to extrapolate on the claim itself.
Yours was SCUM INDICATIVE. Pointing out aloud that it was a scum claim serves no real town purpose, unless you genuinely believed I scumslipped, in which case you should've been on me like a shark on a freshly open wound

Scum slips are rare, and I've learnt to be careful when it comes to accusing people of those because it can derail a thread very easily.

Interesting direction you're going with this.
So you're threatening to aim for me if you're lynched?

If you don't get townier, that's in my plans, yes.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

If you're a vengeful vig, why ask for unvotes?

Mod: Do scum have daytalk?

uh, because I have unlimited shots and am town, can vote scum, can shoot them at night, and because we can lynch scum instead of lynching me...

Also, I already explained about Fwesnid: this move makes no sense as scum because it necessarily makes them die in a 1v1 scenario, so I think they're probably actually town. I just don't get the part about "loud", though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm rather saying that I'm un-CCed lol, and there's no CC to bait since noone can CC me..........

Actually there are, but they would be mistaking. This game has more than one Town Vigilante. (Don't take that as a FACT, but rather as a well-reasoned speculation). To make my point a bit more clear: I think we have 2 GATED Vigilante's, and you didn't claim any restrictions.

They can't CC my kill without lying though, unless two vigis shot the same player, which is extremely unlikely, especially since I don't think there are two vigis (I literally am vengeful on the top of having no restrictions, and we already have a few other PR claims).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@MM, are you just a vigi that can shoot every night? Or is it X-shot or something. Curious


Also real vigi don't claim

I can shoot every night. I also have

something else

that you don't have to know lol.

Let me guess: You're LOYAL.

Rofl yes, and my secondary role is lynchproof jester.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Scum slips are rare, and I've learnt to be careful when it comes to accusing people of those because it can derail a thread very easily.

Then why point it out in the first place?

Because it's scummy, but I want to make sure it doesn't devolve into a crazy thunderdome.

Aight well I guess there's no point in withholding the

something else

if Norwee is just going to be mute... I am a

vengeful

vigilante. No shot restrictions, as I said.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Seriously, mate. This is getting kind of old. caught scum claiming Vengeful, when Vengeful in fact is good enough a reason to eliminate by day.

Like, IF you are Town, we need you to use that extra town-controlled Venge shot. You just sealed your fate regardless.

Alright, I got it, y'all are lynching me today xD. My hands are up, I surrender! Now discuss who is scum excluding me, and humor me, play as if I were town but keep your votes on me. And help me aim my vengeful shot.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Lol ok, I'll go off then lmao. Just let Fwesnid explain what happened to the "loud" modifier BEFORE hammering me at least? If it's bullshit, I might as well shoot him, but if it makes sense... *looks at Norwee the people's oppressor*

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Uhhh, wrong song

You surely meant to link this, comrade.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Btw, this is a weak read but I think Jackson is town here... because of the way they're handling me. Trying to find tinfoils and posting videos, they seem to genuinely have fun and to think there's a caught scum, and it gives them energy/motivation. Townpoints there for what it's worth

inb4 I get accused of anti-spewing for this lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

No, they meant this.

Spoiler:

What is this horror

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I feel Lord Ralph / His Replacement should get the honor of hammering or at least speaking this phase before someone else hammers.

I-C-C-M-M
Since I am loud and I did get a result.

Also vengeful would be really weird to tact onto a vigilante from a design perspective, as it'd only be useful in a tiny % of games.

...literally nothing else? Is there any world where:

- host made no mistake, which is to be assumed
- my claim is 100 % truthful
- fwesnid's claim is 100 % truthful
- something happened, cancelling the loud feedback but not the gunsmith action

? Because I just don't understand the move from scum!Fwesnid. Can a drug dealer or some other role cancel any recieved feedback without making actions targeted at a player fail? As it stands now, though, I guess my shot will be at Fwesnid, and I'll leave the rest to you guys so that you can debate and lynch people, and then get info from that, as opposed to me just ending someone's life quickly; the info from a Fwesnid lynch will hardly be better than the info from a vengekill on him.

As for my final reads:

I still don't like Norwee here. Too much "that's how it is", not enough reasoning, and definetly not enough town-screaming for the level of activity he had this game. He didn't lurk, but his content is proportionally lacking townness when compared with his activity, and I think that's rather telling.
I think Superbowl is

probably

town; if he's not, he's good at faking town mindset. It's not impossible, though.
I like JacksonVirgo and the way he treated today's events, the mindset he showed. I already explained that in a previous post, and I think he may actually be my top town read now, although there's a significant (but not overwhelmingly dominant) part of gut to that read.
Titus sitting here, saying "why aren't you confirmed scum" and "this isn't a Normal mechanic" is... empty? She's there, but her content is strictly about mechanics and purely mechanical deduction (about me) since a while. Add the babysitter claim to the mix, and that makes a rather scummy slot.
Purely by PoE because I lack scumreads, I suspect Ralph's slot because it's completely void xD. The slot's new occupier should definetly be given a chance at playing, though.
If there's a scum between Glitch and Stanley, I'd bet more on Glitch than on Stanley, unless his claim is provable and is proved. He hasn't been actually towny by himself in my eyes, just "PR-protected" and kinda protected from me by the fact that Nero's push on him wasn't so good and by my scumread on Nero. As for Stanley, I remember somewhat following his thought process about (superbowl?) on early D1, and I still have that small thing going for a town!him world.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I skimmed the last four pages.

MM was caught with a gun.
He claimed vengeful vig.
He claimed he shot Pete.
He said he didn't get a PM so that fwesnid wasn't loud? wut.
Is that accurate?

Hi. Yes, that's exactly what happened, and I'm as confused as you are when it comes to that lol.

Oh and I wanted to add to my list of final reads: I want to townread Bell, and I feel like I should townread Bell, because he gives his thoughts and they all are somewhat coherent, nothing strikes me as scummy, and he's just generally nice lol. But all of this stuff is not super hard to fake for scum, so I'm keeping a healthy doubt about him (and you should too). Still leaning town on him, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I feel Lord Ralph / His Replacement should get the honor of hammering or at least speaking this phase before someone else hammers.

I-C-C-M-M

Since I am loud and I did get a result.

Also vengeful would be really weird to tact onto a vigilante from a design perspective, as it'd only be useful in a tiny % of games.

Wait, does that mean "I counterclaim Marshmallow Marshall"? Lol because that makes no sense at all

If not, what does it mean?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why aren't you voting fwesnid?

Because my fate was already decided by the majority here lol, but I guess it can't hurt... VOTE: Fwesnid

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Are you sure you checked your night messages and did not receive a notification you were visited?

I rechecked them twice to make sure lmao. Nothing.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

If you're vengeful shoot Fwesnid for lying, yeah?
@Everyone else: is that the correct move here?

I mean, that looks like the correct move, yes... but what really doesn't look like the correct move is Fwesnid lying about being loud lol, he could just have claimed gunsmith and have gotten away with it and get me lynched, then say "oops but my check was legit" after my flip. Hence why I'm trying to find an explaination lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Manatee, were all night actions properly registered? I understand you've had a hectic few days, is there a back up mod that could check?

That would explain everything... but I don't want to assume host errors lol. I guess it's a good idea to ask, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nero Cain was killed

Spoiler:

welcome Nero Cain to large normal 229. you are a

town disloyal roleblocker.

each night, you may visit another player to prevent any of their night actions from working; this will fail if your target is also town.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

There is a motivation for scum!fwesnid to fake claim visit on MM.

I think we should let MM live one day. If he is town, we get information about whether mafia has a roleblocker or not.
If he is scum, then
a) maf kills Fwendis - we know MM is maf
b) maf doesn't kill Fwendis - Fwendis gets an extra shot of his ability

The thing is that Fwesnid needs to have actually used his ability to know that I'm vigi/that I can kill, so he can't have been roleblocked. Also, what's the motivation you're seeing?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

BELL IS MVP

UNVOTE: Fwesnid

I have recieved feedback that I was visited by Fwesnid during the night!

FWESNID IS CONFIRMED LOUD, and it's likely that he's gunsmith as well. I'm definetly not shooting him in any way or form.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And now, listen guys. I'm very much confirmable as vigilante since I can shoot tonight. Let me confirm myself?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A50, why would MM lie about something he didn't need to lie about.

From my PoV, MM\s play revolves around making people look scummy but not directly pushing it himself.

He already did it to me earlier today.

In Fwesnid's case he wanted to push there (based on a missassumption of how the GS works).

So, in my view he did get notified he was visited by Fwesnid, but he didn't receive a gun, so he assumed Fwesnid was some other PR (i.e. not a GS) and proceeded to push him. However, when he was corrected he could not back track and admit he did get notified of the visit.

If MM knew all along how Fwesnid's role worked he would have probably claimed the visit as soon as he came in today to be safe. Alas, he didn't because he was counting on Fwesnid being pushed to either change his claim to the "real role" or being eliminated and flipping something other than GS.

Lol, this is wrong on two levels: the level of fitting with reality and the level of being coherent. Let's break it down...

Ah yes, by saying "A50 would not push Norwee like he did as scum, because noone would actually believe that case and it only puts him in a bad light, and he's not a newbie so he probably can't have made that mistake", I'm indirectly making you look scummy, right? That was sarcastic, by the way.

This first example is wrong on the level of fitting with reality (it simply is false, and a quick ISO of my posts about A50 will show that easily).

Unless he meant me pointing out that him assuming a roleblock on himself by the disloyal roleblocker, which was just me investigating a potential slip (although slips are rare), not "making him look scummy without pushing it". It's the town's job to investigate potentially scummy things.

Damn right,

I

wanted to push Fwesnid before knowing what a Gunsmith was. I did it, too, until someone (I think Jackson) pointed out my error about the Gunsmith role. Now, I have two issues with the accusation about this. The first issue is that not perfectly knowing the site's terminology (and assuming it's similar to the one used on other sites) isn't scummy, so your point is moot. The second and most important issue is that it's not coherent with the rest of your post: by admitting

I

have pushed Fwesnid, you are obviously excluding that I would be "making Fwesnid look scummy without pushing it myself".

As for the rest of the post, it becomes moot given the feedback I've recieved and shared 2 posts ago.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think that's such a stretch. If we're wrong MM can just take out scum!Fwesnid on his way down and now it will also tell us a bit about the alignment of Flake and A50.

VOTE: Glitch

With the light of the feedback, this post looks pretty bad. From a town PoV, it'd be a poorly detailed position (and it's not that Glitch can't detail his position, he proved it during the Nero - Glitch fight). From a scum PoV, it'd be an easy lineup of two PR deaths that doesn't make him look bad and that gives him a justification to vote me and to support the vengekill on Fwesnid.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That looked like IIoA to me and I stand by that

just read the last 6 pages:
- MM claimed vengeful vigi
- Fwesnid checked him
- MM didn't recieve a loud PM

(This is about 2741, btw)

Uh no, it isn't IIoA to say that turbolynching shouldn't be a thing... But even if you actually think it is, you didn't say what it changed about your read on Siteflaking.

Reading through the last few pages Bell is town (being paranoid about a mod error and showing the right amount of emotion), Jackson is town (trying to find as many possibilities as possible)

This doesn't give any townpoints since that can easily be scum putting people in townreads as much as it can be town genuinely townreading people, but I completely agree with the content.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And now, listen guys. I'm very much confirmable as vigilante since I can shoot tonight. Let me confirm myself?

Fine. If you were lying then real vig would shoot you anyway.
VOTE: Glitch

Exactly lol.

I think that's such a stretch. If we're wrong MM can just take out scum!Fwesnid on his way down and now it will also tell us a bit about the alignment of Flake and A50.

VOTE: Glitch

With the light of the feedback, this post looks pretty bad. From a town PoV, it'd be a poorly detailed position (and it's not that Glitch can't detail his position, he proved it during the Nero - Glitch fight). From a scum PoV, it'd be an easy lineup of two PR deaths that doesn't make him look bad and that gives him a justification to vote me and to support the vengekill on Fwesnid.

half of your wagon was saying this

Yes, but with a bit more effort and development. I'd let it slide if Glitch hadn't been that much of a wallposter and effortposter, but that's what he was yesterday.
I am also assuming that a rather large amount of scum were on my wagon here, since lining 2 PR deaths is pretty nice for them lol. So maybe not half my wagon, but a lot of people ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am also assuming that a rather large amount of scum were on my wagon here, since lining 2 PR deaths is pretty nice for them lol. So maybe not half my wagon, but a lot of people ^^

No no no this is bad. Pretty much everyone who read the game was on your wagon, if you wanna argue scum is more likely to be active thats one thing but if your wagon was 100% town I would not be surprised (not because of the names on the wagon, but because you were literally hard CCd by fwes)

No, it's not. Are you telling me that from my point of view (i.e. from the point of view of someone who knows MM to be town and Fwesnid highly likely to be town too), scum wouldn't be piling on my wagon or at the very least supporting it and putting their votes without even needing to back them up much because of the situation? You think they'd just keep their hands out of it? That seems very, very unlikely to me. Plus, it's just unlikely that there are no scum on my wagon when we have 5 scum left lol, statistically speaking.

It does make sense imo to go back to the original strat of bringing glitch to L-1 to get him to confirm, then elim like stan or someone if the confirm is good.

VOTE: Glitch

Yep. Definetly agreeing about the "no hammer until he confirms/fails to confirm", too; we have a lot of time and don't need to turbolynch.

Holy fuck ralph is right about everything. Also I'm starting to scumread Jackson pretty hard.

What do you mean about Ralph being right, and why do you scumread Jackson? I don't get any of those takes.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Any mod-errors when it comes to night results have been clarified with the receiver.

Hammering MM in 5 minutes.

That was a bold move lol. If someone around knows Flake's meta, can they tell me if they tend to be highly ballsy as scum, or more cautious? The post I'm quoting is probably telling for someone who knows the author's meta.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think dolittle deserves to go today over stan actually assuming glitch is legit, I think stan will provide more AI stuff as it goes on and certain stuff is making me question my SR

i told you im not planning to effort at this stage of the game for a variety of reasons

Erm... I had to ISO you to see what you did this game, because I had absolutely no memory of your existence. Do you know what I saw when I ISOed you?
Close your eyes.
Fall asleep.
Make a boring dream.
Then you'll see what I saw . Literally ONLY one-liners and pictures (ok maybe not, on 30 posts, there were 2 posts with 2-4 lines, I'll give you that). The thing that comes the closest to a reasoning in your posts is "people who say

ugh

are usually town". SO. At this stage of the game, I think asking you to make a minimum of effort isn't unreasonable.

What are your reads?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

No, it's not. Are you telling me that from my point of view (i.e. from the point of view of someone who knows MM to be town and Fwesnid highly likely to be town too), scum wouldn't be piling on my wagon or at the very least supporting it and putting their votes without even needing to back them up much because of the situation? You think they'd just keep their hands out of it? That seems very, very unlikely to me. Plus, it's just unlikely that there are no scum on my wagon when we have 5 scum left lol, statistically speaking.

You're saying that scum is more likely to hop on your wagon than town. I'm telling you everyone who's played 1 game of mafia is on that wagon, regardless of alignment. Sure you can argue that scum's on it from a probability perspective, but that's no different than saying the current player list has scum in it. It's not a useful grouping to make unless you're assigning a higher probability of scum joining your wagon than town, which would not be accurate.

Now if you want to analyze how people got OFF the wagon or how they acted, since scum knew you were town, that would actually be very useful and interesting to see

Hmm, it's true that townies are likely to be on my wagon too, but I'm saying that scum, who know both me and Fwesnid are town PRs, would love to see both of us die while keeping their hands clean, hence why I think they're even more likely to get on my wagon.

As for analyzing how people got off the wagon and how they acted, I already did that with Bell and Jackson, and found that both of them were towny here. I also still don't like how Titus has hopped on my wagon, talked about what was Normal and what wasn't, and then got off the wagon. That's scummy IIoA + what I would expect from scum who see that the wagon is losing its traction.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You're saying that scum is more likely to hop on your wagon than town. I'm telling you everyone who's played 1 game of mafia is on that wagon, regardless of alignment.

Superbowl you are 100% right here but I think the point MM is making is more than that. Look at this post from Glitch that MM pointed out:

I think that's such a stretch. If we're wrong MM can just take out scum!Fwesnid on his way down and now it will also tell us a bit about the alignment of Flake and A50.

VOTE: Glitch

With the light of the feedback, this post looks pretty bad. From a town PoV, it'd be a poorly detailed position (and it's not that Glitch can't detail his position, he proved it during the Nero - Glitch fight). From a scum PoV, it'd be an easy lineup of two PR deaths that doesn't make him look bad and that gives him a justification to vote me and to support the vengekill on Fwesnid.

see here its more than just glitch being on the wagon. if we assume Glitch is scum for a second, he is using his knowledge that both Fwes and MM were likely both telling the truth to set up both of their deaths in one go, and reads as if he is persuading people to get it over with to achieve that. (tbf tho its likely MM would have shot Fwes anyway if he had died, so its not needed to tell MM to do it anyway but still)

VOTE: glitch thats 8/10 votes, still not convinced glitch is scum but when MM pointed the above out it made me think its quite likely tbf. plus idk where else to vote and id like to get to the bottom the mysterious soft claim too

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS. Just to clarify, though, I didn't have the 100 % clear intent to shoot Fwesnid and made it clear that I found the situation really weird and thought Fwesnid had no reason to act like he would acted as scum, which could be why Glitch felt the need to tell me to shoot Fwesnid.

And yeah, we definetly aren't waiting for day 4 to come before getting the hard claim xD

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I have a soft clean on Glitch.
Stop voting him.

Wat

Is it an anti-town horror to ask you to clarify? If it isn't, please do lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am not vanilla townie and I have an information, which makes Glitch less likely to be scum than a random person.

To be honest, I still want a claim from him. He said he could be semi-useful on D2. If he's going to be fearkilled by scum because of his claim, it'll happen anyway. And you're not saying he's completely cleared anyway. Plus, whatever you are, it's likely that him claiming will actually help confirming both of you if you both are town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And by the way, if we're going to lynch away from Glitch because Flake says he may or may not be town, I could get on board for a Titus wagon.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@mod

the 3271 votecount says Glitch has 4 votes, but lists 6 voters... looks like a

glitch

to me
...ok I'll see myself out

~~

What are your reads?

i dont have any

sorry to disappoint

I find it suddenly tempting to shoot you tonight... give us something at least lol, you can't be completely readless. Else why would you have voted this game? You're going down and down into the scumreads hell.

....i still feel fine with my vote where it is tbh..........

Same, but can you explain why

you

feel that way?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM is still scum here and that's coming from someone no longer in a cc with them.
Though I do understand why it's better to not keep moving votes back and forth on them.

VOTE: stan1ey

Npom's solve is roughly where I'm at. Looter instead of ralph.

I'll shoot tonight. That solves my slot and confirms you.

Titus has hopped on my wagon, talked about what was Normal and what wasn't, and then got off the wagon. That's scummy IIoA

Since we clearly do not know what IIoA is I will let you know:

PSAs are not IIoA.

Irrelevant (or relevant) information is not IIoA.

IIoA is when you replace

analysis

with information. Think about it in terms of observations and conclusions. It's not IIoA to make an observation, but it is when you replace conclusions you should be making with solely the information.

I don't know what a PSA is, but I do know that what Titus did was IIoA. Instead of trying to advance things by reasoning, she just said "this isn't Normal" and put her vote on me. Call it "fake useful activity" if "IIoA" bothers you here, but I think it fits the definition of IIoA: saying mechanical stuff without giving any conclusions or reads based on them, and just sitting on the current top wagon that happens to be very lucrative for scum.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

im surprised mafia isn't taking advantage of this more than anything

Unvote, Vote: NPOM

@mod

do i need to go hard for NPOM today? i will FYI

Is that Hiraki jokingly asking the mod to tell him if he should vote NPOM or not, or am I misunderstanding the post? It's strange lol

I'm a vigilante, and shot Pickaxe Pete last night for rather obvious reasons.

this plus the two crumbs he has alluded to probably clears MM as town unless someone else claims to have shot pete

What two crumbs? Point them out to me, if you please.

I failed to find the second crumb (or maybe just thought about leaving it but never actually did...), but I definetly left one and pointed it out, just get in my ISO, it's right next to my vigi claim.

However, something more interesting here is that Stanley is talking about the TWO crumbs I alluded to.... but obviously hasn't seen two crumbs since I only found one myself, so this could be ungenuine? +small scumpoints to Stanley

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't know what a PSA is, but I do know that what Titus did was IIoA. Instead of trying to advance things by reasoning, she just said "this isn't Normal" and put her vote on me. Call it "fake useful activity" if "IIoA" bothers you here, but I think it fits the definition of IIoA: saying mechanical stuff without giving any conclusions or reads based on them, and just sitting on the current top wagon that happens to be very lucrative for scum.

PSA = public service announcement. This is the definition of NOT IIoA. If someone asks a mechanical question it's just pro-town to answer that question correctly. She voted you for obviously the same reason everyone else voted you, there was no reason for anyone to explain their vote after the fwes thing happened. She didn't use these answers to justify anything she was doing, and providing these answers is actually marginally useful activity in that scenario

Eh, it looked more like she wanted to look like she was doing something. I would say you're right if she had said anything else with her "not normal" statements, but she didn't, iirc. I also agree with (someone? I think A50 but not sure)'s take on the babysitter claim being weird/somewhat scummy.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Jackson. Can you talk normal.

He's an AUSSIE. Since when do people "speak normal" in the land down under?

˙ǝɯ llǝʇ no⅄

Rofl

Spoiler:

Hmm, it's true that townies are likely to be on my wagon too, but I'm saying that scum, who know both me and Fwesnid are town PRs, would love to see both of us die while keeping their hands clean, hence why I think they're even more likely to get on my wagon.

As for analyzing how people got off the wagon and how they acted, I already did that with Bell and Jackson, and found that both of them were towny here. I also still don't like how Titus has hopped on my wagon, talked about what was Normal and what wasn't, and then got off the wagon. That's scummy IIoA + what I would expect from scum who see that the wagon is losing its traction.

I think that's such a stretch. If we're wrong MM can just take out scum!Fwesnid on his way down and now it will also tell us a bit about the alignment of Flake and A50.

VOTE: Glitch

With the light of the feedback, this post looks pretty bad. From a town PoV, it'd be a poorly detailed position (and it's not that Glitch can't detail his position, he proved it during the Nero - Glitch fight). From a scum PoV, it'd be an easy lineup of two PR deaths that doesn't make him look bad and that gives him a justification to vote me and to support the vengekill on Fwesnid.

see here its more than just glitch being on the wagon. if we assume Glitch is scum for a second, he is using his knowledge that both Fwes and MM were likely both telling the truth to set up both of their deaths in one go, and reads as if he is persuading people to get it over with to achieve that. (tbf tho its likely MM would have shot Fwes anyway if he had died, so its not needed to tell MM to do it anyway but still)

VOTE: glitch thats 8/10 votes, still not convinced glitch is scum but when MM pointed the above out it made me think its quite likely tbf. plus idk where else to vote and id like to get to the bottom the mysterious soft claim too

I don't these lines of reasoning stack up. I nearly hammered MM yesterday - from a town POV it was fairly clear cut what to do, it looked very much like we had caught scum and I was eager for some hammer action. However, I hadn't even considered the possibility of a mod error. So glad I delayed myself waiting for reads from MM...

Scum on the other hand would have known something funny was up. They would know MM and Fwesnid's alignments, and even in a Scum!Fwesnid scenario would know something was amiss (as they would have full knowledge of his role, including modifiers).

This makes me think Glitch, and other hard pushers during the situation, are likely to be town - a push only makes sense from a position of ignorance. The informed would be very wary of doing anything, because they would know there had been an error, and that it was likely to be fixed at some point. The only real scum opportunity here would be to quick hammer when MM was at L-1, but they would only do this if Fwesnid was town (and they had been around to do so).

I am going to go back at some point and see who did what, but right now I am thinking Glitch town, and Stanley scum as a consequential read (i.e. pushing Glitch). I am going back and forth on Fwesnid, do you guys think scum would've quick hammered at L-1 in a town!Fwesnid scenario? MM not definitely wanting to shoot Fwesnid at the time confuses this, and makes me think they might not, even in a town!Fwesnid scenario.

Obviously some elements of WIFOM, but I am not inclined to not think too much into it as the source of uncertainty if outside of players control in this situation, so I think gaming less likely.

I think it's the other way around: scum would want the lynch to happen as soon as possible BEFORE town figures out that there was something wrong.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What are your reads?

i dont have any

sorry to disappoint

wtf you have NO READS?
VOTE: DrDolittle

DrDolittle's ISO looks terrible, really terrible. I need to see more from you and this is a pressure vote

I guess he's living up to his name, right? But more seriously, I support this and actually VOTE: DrDoLittle moar pressure = moar good. Still would like to see more from Glitch, but.... I guess that's not trending atm? Expecting to see it at the very least on D3, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

100% a massclaim is not the move here

hey norway wanna do stan or JV with us

Oki.
VOTE: Stan1ey
Mass claim tommorow? Or at least depending on flips.

It feels pretty early for a massclaim, but on the other hand, this is my first large and we already have quite a lot of PR claims, so we might as well go for it.

Also, your "L-1" on Ydrasse gave me a heart attack -_- thought I had missed a whole part of the game...

I'm busy today, will be back tomorrow at some point in my life... hopefully.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok I cooled off. Its pretty clear that I'm a *very* good PR, and I really don't want to out, unless someone specifically requests it. My clown apathy play is not to draw a NK, and I figure I can avoid ML since this game is a large. I'll give my by and large thoughts tomorrow since it's 3am here

I'm a Novice Cop. This game is supposed super easy for me on paper because I just need to make sure A50, Hiraki, and nc are not scum, and then I can just sheep them and win and that was the plan. NC had to be all loud and stuff and eat himself an NK.

Ok now I've outted, please let me continue with my plan and/or eat. Like if you find that I'm still alive tomorrow feel free to wagon, but let me get my night action in ok?

Is literally everyone PR claiming at this point? Lol

Benefit of the doubt? Claiming novice [

anything

that's supposed to recieve or give feedback] on D2 is almost too easy, but the excuse won't work tomorrow.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

am i town leader now??? i think i am

Ahemmm... I'm confirmed vigi but ok this may be dumb but why are do you think you are town leader? Just wanna hear your reasoning here

Thanks for listening MM. It gets so demoralizing to keep saying who scum is and get ignored.

Anyway, let's clean house.

VOTE: Glitch

To be perfectly honest, I didn't do it for you or your reads at all because I suspected you , sorry lol. I'll have to check your ISO to see if IKS's flip actually clears you, though.

And yeah, the only reason why Glitch is still alive is because of IKS's "reasons to think he's clear", and I actually wanted to clean that mess up by shooting one of the two, which seems to have worked. Not voting because I don't want to accidentally hammer (idk the vote count), but my vote is there in spirit. Unless he claims a reaaaallly good role, he's probably dead here.

~~

Let's finish what we started: massclaim with full claims.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, I still stand by my JV townread from his behavior during the push against me; the mess about hammers on DDL yesterday slightly strenghtens that read. although I could see a scum hammer there given the position DDL was in and the... worth he may have had in the eyes of his scummates lol (no offense, it's just that he was obviously not going to carry them here).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

And Siteflaking semi-cleared them

What?

Siteflake claimed some kind of PR that semi-cleared Glitch.

So great, Glitch and flaking are scum together.

Huh? DDL claimed Novice Cop right? That seems to be the type of thing one fully CCs or doesn't.

Of course we tolerated scum siteflaking vouching for scum glitch and scum npom voting everyone and their brother while bitching about why all our PRs get outed

@Titus: What's your solution, putting a limit on the number of wagons in a day?

Lynching the oppotunistic votehoppers and actually analyzing claims. Confirming the confirmable. No softclear bullshit. No proxying shit to someone else to have an easy way off the wagon.

And again, how likely it is the we wagoned 5 PR's in a row.

Glitch - PR claim
Fwesnid - PR claim
Titus - PR claim
72offsuit - Lynched PR claim
DrDolittle - PR claim

Siteflaking - Soft PR claim to protect Glitch from having to confirm

That's where your scum is.

Of course we tolerated scum siteflaking vouching for scum glitch and scum npom voting everyone and their brother while bitching about why all our PRs get outed

This statement assumes that a large majority of the claims are truthful. Which town shouldn't assume.

I literally am calling out scum in the PR claims there.

This is the second round of nonsense you put up with me today.

Yeah this does look really good for Titus, because Siteflaking was at a position where he very well could escape lynch if he wasn't pushed more and played well, but didn't need much more to be pushed pretty hard, and Titus added a lot of pressure on him and on Glitch. Scumread on Titus retracted + townread on her now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

...you know, I kinda wonder where I was last day phase.

*australian confusion sounds*

*letters upside down*

ill miss surperboel i liked him . i knew i was rite on the doc still haha . now to just find the last to

Right on the doc...?

The last to...???


Is it that I'm stupid, or is it that this makes no sense lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@MM ngl I wish you had shot glitch/NPOM/A50 lmfao. But I'll get to that later

I'm really not convinced about shooting A50 lol, I remain true to my read on his push against Norwee, but the other two, I can understand. Glitch for reasons we know, and NPOM because I feel like he has been coasting on the relative town pass he was given early on; he hasn't done anything towny recently, and I think someone said his votes were mostly naked, which is accurate (iirc), so yeah.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

“I miss super bowl, I liked him. I knew I was right on the doc (dr. Dolottle) haha. Now just to find the last two.

OH. Forgive me, I'm tired XD. Actually going to bed now, have fun guys. But uh, didn't 2 scum die, which makes the amount of remaining scum 3? Unless he meant Glitch was outed scum, which is probably true
P.S. I agree with the idea of having Glitch claim before the massclaim

Addressing 3907, the ratio is public info: 16v5

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hi. Paragraph by paragraph:

I don't appreciate the stalling comments. Thursday night's we host extended family dinner nights where we cook and host for 9, and I just finished putting my son to bed. The MS community operates on users playing in good faith following a golden rule of not using personal life excuses for in game advantages and I do not appreciate being misconstrued as bending such a rule. I was excited to see the results so I checked in real quick during dinner with the intent to come back later when I had full time and attention. If I get voted off for that reason alone I'm gonna be pissed. Make any argument against me and everything if fair game but please don't argue against my character.

I am the neighborizer. I recruit one user to my neighborhood each night. My strategy from the beginning has been to form a group of people I am confident are town and use our PT to target scum without the influence of other scum in the main thread. Being able to coordinate town lynches essentially forming a secret town block. This hinged solely on my ability to town read successfully and recruit accordingly. When I softclaimed I specifically said my role was not useful until like day 4 which is true. Not until day 4; until like day 4. The effectiveness of our town block neighborhood is not that strong with only 2 of us, really not with 3, but by day 4 the numbers would get to where we start to have some away.

Unfortunately I completely failed in my role and my first recruit was IKSF. I had a strong TR there at the end of D1 and I was completely off just like I was wrong with my read on Nero. My reads have just been whack this game.

Flake and I talked a bit in the PT. He claimed one shot disloyal vigilante telling me he was going to shoot A50 on night 2 but since he's disloyal, if he's town then the shot would not go through. I asked Flake for his town reads because my reads have not been solid this game and he gave me one TR: Norway.

I told him that would be a crazy stretch for me but I decided to reevaluate. As I tried to put the emotions aside I just became more confused than anything about Norway but I liked the vibes i was getting from flake. With Norway pushing so hard for mass claim, I also wanted to avoid claiming. If I claimed and scum knew we had a neighborhood we would lose advantage especially because Flake and I would be outed. So I asked Flake who he thought I should recruit and recommended Norway twice. I decided that my best shot at avoiding mass claim was to recruit Norway, convince him in the PT by showing him the truth of my role, and then he could advocate against mass claim in the main thread because he has a lot of away with everyone.

So I did it. Trusting flake and hoping it would work. When I got on here and saw Flake flipped scum last night I realized I had totally failed in my role and recruited not just scum first but then recruited exactly who the scum recommended I bring in.

For that reason, Norway HAS to be scum. There's no way around it. If I get eliminated first when i flip town y'all will know to kill off Norway. However if you believe me, vote for Norway and we can be down to 2 scum left total.

I crumbled IKSF as my pick twice in Day 2. I will go back and pull quotes when I get to my laptop later.

VOTE: Norway
Please join me.

100 % fair. I hate when my real life is being used against me, and don't want to see it happen to anyone, all alignments aside. All of this should be considered as purely NAI (note that it doesn't make Glitch

innocent

either, it simply makes that specific argument against him moot).

That claim is coherent with Glitch's play. It could be a long-planned fakeclaim, but I rather think it's legitimate. Plus, it is very much confirmable, although scum neighborizer probably is possible in a tinfoil world.

The breadcrumbs do make his claim more believable, too.

There's A LOT of WIFOM involved here, plus the possibility (relatively small now but still existent) that Glitch is scum. Norway certainly isn't confirmed scum, even in a town!Glitch world. That being said, I'm not strictly opposed to a Norwee lynch, as I don't think he has been really towny, nor has he been strongly involved against the flipped scums (as opposed to, for example, Nero [although I understand I strongly opposed him too lol]).
(Consider my vote on Norwee, I'll just check vc to avoid hammering lol)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Btw i agree that scum can have a scum neighborizer role, but it isn’t Glitches claim that made me TR Glitch. Nor the fact that i was recruited. It’s only because I Keep Siteflaking had some natural interactions with Glitch that would be hard to fake as scum, and Glitch seemed genuinely distressed that their recruitment flipped scum.
And not in a: "Oh no my scum partner died ;(" kind of way.

Okay well while looking for a vote count, I actually found Norwee townier xD. I really like this post, it's following a line of thought similar to the one I followed while reading Glitch's big post, and it adds the part about "genuine distress" that also makes sense; his exclusion of the recruitment from the townread also makes sense. Nevermind norweem, you get a pass lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok but MM, can you not.
Everyone be like: "he’s not rly town" when they scumread me and everytime it’s literally the towniest game i’ve played in existence that they’re looking at.

Come on, your signature literally says it's not fair you get as much scum practice as you do
but ok

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, jump into my pocket MM.
Soon i’ve fooled you all.

*looks around*

ok then
FOR NOW

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ngl I think the best play to gauge NEE/Glitch is to recruit me. As I'm not dying tonight if Titus targets me

Isn't Titus babysitter though
...which makes this not so great?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

who's down to hammer

this has a very high chance of flipping red

Stanley/Titus/a50 or hiraki or shelly is my solve. If you're going to eliminate me get to it already.

Not SvS. but past that... it's pretty hard to read tbh. Norwee, do you maintain your meta read on NPOM?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ngl I think the best play to gauge NEE/Glitch is to recruit me. As I'm not dying tonight if Titus targets me

Isn't Titus babysitter though
...which makes this not so great?

I know what the role does, but we're fine. Trust in me

If Titus is town, we're good have faith in me.
If Titus is scum, mafia cannot kill me as they have to keep their claim.

Uh, ok. I think Titus is town anyway lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I still think A50 is town fwiw, their play has been likely to attract a vig shot since the start so saying IKS was going to die first isn't right imo.

Agreed: if I hadn't been both a vigilante (which he couldn't know) and someone who townread him (people who townread him aren't or at least weren't legion). IKS on the other hand was relatively nullread by most people, and certainly not an highly likely vigilante target, at least not until DDL's flip (and even then), which put him under a slight bad light imo. A50 is still town imo.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What is happening here and what's with this sheepish progression? One post you're explaining why the game is hanging on Titus's VCA and the next moment you're complaining about it. It doesn't make any sense.

I was V/LA and was expecting to come back to insightful posts. instead we were all waiting for titus' vca

Uh.... what? Why are we waiting specifically on

Titus

' VCA, and why does it matter that much?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Selected posts from Shelly's ISO because I was reading some part of the thread and found a few of her posts interesting to read her (fun fact, I started that yesterday, saved the post, and at the moment I want to post it I see Jackson saying he wants Shelly shot lol...):

Reading through the last few pages Bell is town (being paranoid about a mod error and showing the right amount of emotion), Jackson is town (trying to find as many possibilities as possible)

I am in full agreement and mindmelding process when reading this post, and really like it.

i know our townblock is firm.

stop pocketing me!

I wondered if this was fake or genuine concern about being pocketed, but couldn't make up my mind on it until I saw a later post:

You’re town because reaver was town.

Hey, why'd you decide to pocket my slot?

Which veteran told you I was a good pocketing target

which made me think she's genuinely afraid of being pocketed as a new player.

how am I "disappointing" though

don't ignore this Jackson

making sure points don't remain unexplained, although the point was against her; I like a bit

You don’t have to,
Shellyc is just figuring out the terminology. She’s newish here.

What does this even refer to?

This also supports my feeling that Shelly is genuinely afraid of being pocketed as a new player.

yeaaah. i think bell's slot is something we revisit after mm tho.

I finished Newbie 2023. Will update my signature.

Bell is playing EXACTLY like how they played in that game

Bell is very townie. they show a lot of town energy and emotion imo

Ydrasse Bell Jackson are solid TRs here

I like the take on Bell and Jackson here, once again. I'd just like to know why Ydrasse is towny, because I don't think I've seen it anywhere.

My conclusion is that Shelly is town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey uh

Why is Ralph out of everyone's PoE? Did I miss something, or is everyone just giving a free pass to the guy who only posts one-liners lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

is thire a pr claim?

Is it just me misinterpreting the context, or is this post plain wrong PR hunting? I looked at Ralph's ISO to see if I had missed a confirmable PR claim or something like that and saw this instead...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Personal bias and reads wants A50 shot.

case me NEE, I dare you

you will be wrong though

I might have to make a case on shelly tomorrow

Oh oops, I mixed those two posts up

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The sun never set on the British Empire, and now twilight never sets on the Mafiascum Empire

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Um, Titus?

Assuming the vigi shot Hiraki, I did not expect them to be shot as if A50 flipped town I was gonna TR them but Hiraki's flip doesn't really solve much.
VOTE: A50

Now we have waste this day phase on lynching someone we already know is scum. Sigh...
VOTE: Almost50

Uh okay, I don't see what you guys are seeing lol. How do we "know" he's scum?

happy to claim if ppl wanna do the mass claim, still not a massive fan of it tho

At this point, enough PRs have claimed to make massclaim only damaging for scums. Let's go.

I think the super townie players shouldn't need to claim anything, but those in the poe or possible poe should.

Everyone should claim; "super townie players" could be powerwolves.

Um, Titus?

Assuming the vigi shot Hiraki, I did not expect them to be shot as if A50 flipped town I was gonna TR them but Hiraki's flip doesn't really solve much.
VOTE: A50

I targeted MM.

With scum supposing I was on you, I could protect another PR. I don't regret lying to you in the slightest.

I confirm I was visited by Titus btw, if that interests anyone.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh yes, A50 claiming first and everyone claiming after is even better, since you all seem to deeply hate him lol.

this is quite obviously town!bell if bell is scum I'm going to be super surprised

I kinda just want to claim now

Agreed.

~~

Spoiler:

L-1

Death death death.
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

A50 is a professional troll.

VOTE: MM

Okay no yall A50 was just fucking around to get TL to stop harping on that one point. It seems pretty obvious esp. coming from A50 who just pulled a scumclaim reaction test

This is actually amazing we basically just caught scum MM

VOTE: MarshmallowMarshall

MM is just caught scum...?
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

VOTE: MM

This seems fairly cut and dry

MM were you visited by Fwes last night?

VOTE: MM

VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

even if mm is vig, i don't trust him with the gun anyway so...

Unvote, Vote: MM

VOTE: MM

I'll come back tomorrow and read in depth but is Bell vs Ydrasse boiling down to Ydrasse throws shade on Bell and then denies SRing him and they just bicker? If so I don't get why people's TR on Bell would be affected if he just reacted and was defensive. Defensiveness isn't always a scumtell.

Unfortunately at this point even if MM comes back and says he got an updated night pm from the mod I don't know that we can believe him. He's been given an opportunity here to manipulate us and will take it as scum or be truthful as town. We are on our own on that one. The only thing slightly indicative is that the mod seemed to imply there was a mistake that was corrected.

I'll be back tomorrow after some sleep.

Yep. This is town.

Why is that town?
Especially the L-1 notification.
You think scum wouldn’t do that?

Let's make a bold assumption that MM is town. Glitch pointing out L-1 is anti-scum - can prevent a mislynch. Perhaps he did it for town creds. But then 3203 destroys the very purpose of his L-1 post.

contradiction

Hence:
town MM => town Glitch.
MM is confirmable, so is Glitch.
Q.E.D.

This really doesn't look like a SvS interaction to me. IKS felt the need to argue and convince Norwee after Norwee asked him to explain what was very probably an easy pocket on very probably town!Glitch. In other words, Norwee is town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tbh it might be more telling of scum!Shelly than scum!A50 that vig wasn’t targeted for the kill tonight.
Because scum probably believed they would target A50, so the fact they didn’t might prove he was not a threat.
Sigh i guess we should think more about this.
UNVOTE:

I follow your reasoning about me not being targeted by mafia putting A50 in a good light, but not about putting Shelly in a bad light. Can you elaborate?


Edit because of new post: I don't scumread A50 though lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I still scumread Shelly for his "confidence" on a NPOM scumflip.

If I was scum why would I confidently call someone scum in twilight when they were going to flip and I would have looked super bad?

Literally so you could make this post right here

you're wifoming this here

I have town motives from calling NPOM scum in twilight (because of my wack reads) and you can't doubt that

I mean, he CAN doubt that, but your defense is fair, and I don't think you're scum.

And perhaps I'm just really dumb but why do people think you're scum? I'm asking both people who scumread you and yourself.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I can’t be in everyone’s pockets at once.

Yes, you can! Ubiquitous Bell.

i am conftown as well! i was gunsmith inno.

i’ll be around later to try and get back into this game properly.

Sorry.
You know this isn’t true with two goon flips

The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor.

Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors)

, Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor.

Ydrasse is actually cleared lol, unless they're a Mafia Doctor.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It's pretty obvious what my even-night ability is if you ISO me properly lol, but I'll wait for the mass-claim to come my way.

JV says his ability is obvious.

I'm okay with them not choosing my target, they don't know what my ability is

JV states Titus doesn't know his "obvious" ability!

Yeah no, I was probably wrong in my early A50 read, he's probably scum with his nitpicking and his weird fixation on a scum!JV world.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That’s precisely what she could be.
It’s not mathematically likely, but it is within the realm of possibility.

Fair. I just don't think that's what she is, both because I don't see any legitimately good reason to scumread her and because "it's not mathematically likely", as you said.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am starting to SR NEE again, the solve could be easily A50/Stan/NEE

Nope, Norwee has consistently brought Stanley on the table while Stanley wasn't even under general pressure. This solve is wrong. A50-Norwee is also probably wrong, given the early interactions those two have had.

I actually think we may have a A50/Stan/Ralph scenario there lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nope! I am not a fan of bussing anyways tbh

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

any questions?

I am town night 3 gunsmith. I have a big ole spiel about shit that I saved to my PC but have had a chance to post it and this shit has exploded.

I used my night action on Shelly.

She has a gun.

Given claim she is confirmed scum.

o
oo
ooo
oooo
ooooo
oooo
ooo
oo
o

That changes things lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Looter probs Rolecopped me or something and knew I was a target for today’s lim since I am VT

Another mislim congrats

I’m still on phone and admittedly haven’t read into detail any of this GET LOOTER!!

Cause I’m half drunk I cannot think properly aorn

I will flip town. End of convo.

I’m like willing to be a martyr here to expose looter because for ?????? Reason scum want me to be the lim

Uh lol. Any objections/risk of hammer if I vote her right now?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the chances of that team being right with shellyc having a gun
And town looter claiming second gun Smith is very remote.

Obviously lol. I hadn't read the looter claim yet when I made that solve. Shelly's defense makes zero sense (why would Looter out himself like this as scum when we're not at MYLO?), so yes.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Shellyc

[Marshmallow Marshall]

NORWEE, I WASH THE BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT A50 UPON THE HEAD THAT IS THINE

And I very selfishly rejoice in knowing that my townreading skills are not far off lol (sorry a50 )

[Marshmallow Marshall]

(Saved post from last time I posted here)

last day I was v confident we would win but now im starting to get spooked by scum not targeting the PRs

You've been coasting pretty hard. VOTE: Stanley

I'm not sold on scum!Norwee, btw. I think I've showed the interaction between IKS and Norwee on... pages 129-130, if I'm not mistaken? I don't see this being SvS.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think we could probably elimate and then shoot in { NEE, ralph, stan } and that should be gg. If not, we search in Titus/Ydrasse/Glitch for the other scum because I am almost certain that there's one scum in NEE/Ralph/Stan

p-edit: Tracker?

No I am an odd-night doctor even-night cop.

N1 was me trying to heal you as I TR'd you at the time.

I have no clue where you got tracker from

You never fully claimed before now, then. Was it intentional?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM you should shoot Ralph if Stan flips red.
Just so i can hopefully endgame as town and make Titus sad.

I want to. I really want to shoot him lol, and probably should have done that earlier instead of shooting A50 and Hiraki, because now we're stuck with that damn permanull slot. But I am now paranoid of everyone, so no promises...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think it's not very credible. Their claim is weird and to go along with a regular doctor...?

I'm not a regular doctor at all but nice shade

You should have targeted me Jackson. Smh.

@Glitch, this screams scum to me solely because they were throwing shade on me + they seem to be trying to fake confidence that if I checked them I would TR them, it doesn't sound like something that town would say in response to my check.

Stanley is at L minus 1

Fuck this shit, wagon NEE

Tbh, all of this makes me want NEE to die. VOTE: Norweegian

It's like he's trying to weaken the global townread on JV; in other words, he's throwing shade at him in the most literal meaning of the term. And I don't really like the early L-1.