Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Chara]

hello everyone! it's 1am so i refuse to read any of this right now, but nice to see all of you.

[Chara]

<3333

flavour reminds me of Protomen. or should i say lack of.

[Chara]

this game is moving fast. i knew that on replacing in and yet somehow i'm still surprised by it. i'll read tonight.

[Chara]

Subject RC magically disappeared, leaving a gender neutral mass murderer named Chara in their place. May or may not be an improvement.

10/10

[Chara]

hi all. rereading now, sorry for the wait.
want to say Rational's town just by skimming recent posts since i've replaced.

[Chara]

<3333

flavour reminds me of Protomen. or should i say lack of.

Can you elaborate on this? Is it just the lack of knowing exactly who you are that makes it feel that way or is there something else?

Also ... Hi!

~Drixx

that and this game are the only two i've been in so far to have "flavour revealed on flip".
and since Almost was in Protomen with us, i'd wondered if they were related.
i also do believe it's possible to puzzle out flavour by our roles, because Almost asked me for my guess, but i don't know anything about Firefly.

[Chara]

i can post again. hi!

[Chara]

i can also confirm TPFKAP is Porkens, unless Maplewood was lying to me. did not realize it was in doubt, really.

[Chara]

i'm also pro-Elsa. if nothing else because policy lynching him sounds very boring.
but also because i think he's much more likely 3p than scum.
there's also some very minor mod meta at play here but i'm not sure if that would be relevant or not. it makes me think i definitrly don't want ro lynch her day 1, however.

and, i'm really sorry for my lack of contribution. the one day i did have time to read and post, i was unable to due to an IP issue, and now i've been working all weekend with about 4 hours of sleep a night.

i'm here tonight, though.

[Chara]

@chara - how well do you know RC? How well do you know Tora? What do you think of my reads on Tora and your slot?

i know them both well enough. don't think i've seen scum Toranaga.
i remember you were scumreading RC, don't know on Toranaga.
i think scumreading RC is very fair, that was my reaction to town RC too.

[Chara]

UNVOTE:

[Chara]

that's fine, if you're town you'll figure it out once i actually start playing, probably.

[Chara]

Well I tried.

Anyway, voting up a dude who claimed to be in a Masonry?

Now admittedly, because this is (probably) Multiball he COULD theoretically be scum. But voting him?

VOTE: Malakittens

Obviously you COULD be joking, but this seems like a decent start.

this is probably a dumb question, but RC claimed masons with nsg, then Elsa talking about voting the mason claim and votes Mala, and then there is some conversation about my slot/Mala as mason buddies.
what happened here? am i dumb?

[Chara]

Now 2 people have decided to vote a Mason claim.

I appear to have been put into a ship of crazy people.

Must Update my Captain's log.

never mind. i just got it.

in my defense i'm very tired.

[Chara]

don't like how 140 both assumes Cheeky is town and preemptively defends that the players scumreading him can't read him. if he's scum here i'd guess Tor is following his town meta on purpose.
follow up posts might forgive if he's often misread by RC, so it might be nothing.would like to know why he seemed confident in Cheeky town early on.
i like Elsa on reading too, but the mere fact of being 3p who can easily be genuinely hunting while still having an anti-town wincon means i can't do anything with this townread.

don't like 191 either.

this kind of sucks. normally i don't like sheeping RC but i know he's town so it feels more viable. and our reads are very similar.
i like Cheeky too.

every time Toranaga explains his thought process more i stop scumreading him for earlier posts. like i like 319.

Cerb: i'm a little surprised at 324. normally i would expect you to cover all of your bases, not just two. ;>

i like 359 for the insight on Tora.
end of page 15.

[Chara]

Flicker: mentioned what i knew of Porkens because i glanced at the thread and Chick's post is what i saw on the most recent page.
voting me for saying "reread" as a Freudian slip is rather funny, though. what benefit would there be to pretending i wasn't caught up?

[Chara]

BuJaber: your analysis in the last post ignores RC's ego.

[Chara]

Here's my issue with RR and why I'm having difficult reading him/them directly: the tone and demeanor just feels townie.. but there's like actually very little in the way of reads except that thing about how I'm not suspicious atm but I might be later which is not actually a read.

Like I'm getting strong townie vibes but everytime I read the actual posts I think 'well he's just stating things that are pretty much neutral or that he believes as facts.' Those are the types of arguments that both town and scum alike can have while being completely genuine.

have you played with Rational? this is pretty standard for them, especially day 1. they rarely give reads on the first day.

[Chara]

BuJaber: i don't know about the fight. by his ego i meant doubling down on his scumread instead of listening to Tora's thoughts on Elsa. RC's replaced out as scum before i believe, but doing so like this is something he's done many a time as town, and much more. you can ask somebody besides me on that as well. ;>

Cerb: fair enough. i did bring it up for a reason but i'm mostly satisfied with your play, so it's probably fine. haven't read the second half of the game yet.

[Chara]

oh, and checking the VC:
why the Robin vote, Cerb? (checked your ISO briefly and didn't see. also, missed you too. <3)

[Chara]

I'd love to hear the reason. I imagine there's something else you saw as an option that I neglected.

With regards to Nico: Drixx and I are doing something different, and actually voting. The majority of our votes so far have been purely to apply more pressure to a forming wagon. The vote on Nico was much the same, but the fact that their only content has been to express a vendetta against Drixx and myself did ping us.

-Cerb

i'll give you a hint: it's not me being mafia, and it's not RC being wrong.
well. technically.
thanks for the answer on Robin, that makes sense.

[Chara]

i'll wait and see what she says to me, but i do love a good OMGUS wagon i didn't even start. :>

[Chara]

actually i'll just
VOTE: Flicker

[Chara]

Lol Tor why are teasing us so much.. just speak your bloody mind already

VOTE: flicker
7 it is. Claim please and let's see if this wagon is full of hot air.

I think d1 lynch should be one of {flicker, TFP, Nico}

what happened to the scumread on me?

[Chara]

Y'all could always quick-wagon someone else and I can prove I can't hammer anyone, either. Just sayin'.

first post i see today.
you know how this sounds, right? :>

[Chara]

My flavor's redacted, of course. But seriously, who else could I be? Maybe I'm too confident in who I am, but nobody's lining up to prove me wrong yet, either.

Pedit: Yes Chara, it looks scummy, I know, whatever.

i read the rest of the conversation with context after the fact. haha.

[Chara]

Tor, that vote is pretty bad. it obviously does look scummy, that's why it was funny, and i think you know i was making a joke to begin with.

[Chara]

you are changing the definition. active lurking means porkens clicks the thread, reads, and doesn't post. there's nothing in his posting that points to it, other than you trying to interpret that elsa vote as something that's actually not there.

that's actually lurking.
active lurking involves posting.

[Chara]

oh, yes, it doesn't look like Porkens is pretending to have been active. he just hasn't been reading, it doesn't look especially AI to me.
i still haven't caught up on the latter half of the game but i checked the iso.

[Chara]

UNVOTE:

[Chara]

if someone wants to help Flicker prove the modifier that's fine, i believe it though. i won't be around until much later and i want to finish reading before somebody ends the day.

[Chara]

nooo, i like Skygazer.
but, see you.

[Chara]

what was the gambit?

pedit: what does Flicker have to do with Skygazer?

[Chara]

because i didn't want someone to hammer and end the day before we have a chance to read. if Flicker was online right now i'd keep it there, but she's not.

[Chara]

i'm very aware of Cerb (i forget who Cool Cucumbers was a hydra with in Saga Frontier, sorry, or were you Rational there?)'s 3p win, where he won by surviving and tricking the town into thinking he was a harmless 3p.
but i don't know how common it is. i don't see a lot of 3p wins.
there's also what someone said about Elsa sounding genuine as scum. so i don't know. i want to see what he does rather than policying her for the claim.
Elsa himself is someone i just like having in the game, even if i don't know what to do with him.

Cheeky's town, right now i'd think Rational is town.

it's not strong but i liked Skygazer for town. Chick as well.

733: actually, i believe we have more to gain from a day 1 mislynch than a day 1 3p lynch. people poo poo info lynches a lot (because lynching purely for info completely invalidates said info, of course) but the actual benefit of going out and trying to lynch

scum

instead of going after win probabilities is something i very strongly believe in. it makes day 1 worthwhile, as you mentioned. :>

[Chara]

738
this is to Porkens. why do you care about someone fishing for 3ps?

Drixx's posting makes me happier on the Rational townread. also these notes are for me, every time i make notes somewhere that isn't the thread itself i lose or forget them. not that i wouldn't appreciate thoughts on my notes.

also i've finally gotten to the RC vs Tora. Almost asked me to join this game when it hit signups, i held off because RC had joined and i don't believe we get along. then i replaced in when asked for obvious reasons.
i believe Bujaber mentioned something about it being odd that RC and Tora didn't fight earlier. after reading this, i can ask: why would they have fought earlier? the circumstances of the fight came about through game events. if you expect people who don't like each other to start going at it just because they're in a playerlist together, you aren't making sense. i doubt either of them went into this game wanting to be at each other's throats.

it's also difficult to scumread Tor after the fight. i might be sensitive to the scumread he had on my slot before i replaced in. i'm not sure, it's frustrating to not be able to say he's confidently town because i really like working with Tor.

881 is another reason to like Skygazer even if i'm personally undecided on Tora.

Cheeky: why are you scumreading Skygazer? i see you changed your list later but you had her as scum for [amount of time].

i got a bit past my replace-in before i stopped. i think i have context for everything.
right now my interest is on Mala. she's not in my townreads. also Toog and BuJaber.

Robin possibly, but she's very difficult to read and i have a strong suspicion she'll remain that way for the rest of the game due to very little content. Rational's reason for the vote on her makes sense to me. i've seen Robin as town a few times and i've been scum with her.

[Chara]

Gamma, feel like talking about the game? if you can obvtown quickly enough i can go ahead and use that for PoE.
why did you vote Skygazer, why is Thor town?

[Chara]

Thor's another slot i'm interested in.
offhandedly: knowing that Rational is a poster who rarely gives reads, especially day 1, and is both a highly mechanical and methodical player, and one who likes talking about flavour and theory, why is the description "spending a lot of effort to say nothing" a scummy one? assuming he's aware of that fact, and it's possible he isn't because it seems he hasn't read much of the thread.

there's pribably other things, i just don't find him towny.

[Chara]

also Mala/Thor is a scumpartner scenario i could get behind.
sorry for all of the posts. i have a lot of words after the catchup and i need to put them here before i forget. also i have a major major problem with parsing very long posts, and if i can't understand my own posts i'm screwed.
and yes, i know others have this exact same problem with a bunch of much littler posts.

[Chara]

I keep misreading Thor's aggressive tone as scummy I think. Rereading his ISO, his aggression seems directed towards genuine sorting, and it's done in such a way that it's likely to ruffle too many feathers if he were scum.

i don't find aggressive tone to be scummy, which i mention only to say that it has nothing to do with my Thor scumread.
can you talk about where he's genuinely sorting? it seems more like wagons for the sake of them, which Thor isn't hiding. and that's not scummy by itself, it just means we don't agree on methodology.

[Chara]

i meant that with the perspective of me scum, voting Flicker seemed an odd choice.

[Chara]

Jingle's in my pocket now and i'll sheep him.

[Chara]

wait. i meant the reverse of that. damn it. the point is i like his posts.

[Chara]

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Chara]

I done did some digging, and this is not the extent of what I'd expect from town NR.

Look at Blazblue. NR was useless in the thread, but useless more along the lines of TPFKAP here, not the same degree of useless as NR here. Moreover, she was actively gamesolving and obvtowning in her neighborhood. Posting well, in fact.

Further a casual look told me she is lurkery, but not apt to literally doing nothing. I would fully expect a level of engagement like the Porkens slot, not a complete lack of everything ever.

this is about what i expect from scum Robin as well. could still go either way, we'll see.

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
i can accept Jingle's Toog townread. don't agree with Rational scum, however, but i'm not confident enough to bet the game on them either.

need to look at Cheeky's post here when i'm home.

pedit: Cheeky i was townreading you heavily based on both tone and content but certain reads and stances and the timing of them make me nervous. i could go and get them in more detail though Jingle did outline a few in posts i liked.

peditx2: yay!

[Chara]

also Jingle gets all my points for townreading the posts i was specifically making to be townread by town for. (and yes that's different than being townread by scum, shh.)

pedit: oof. another one bites the dust. hello McMenno.

[Chara]

Yeah I'm vibing pretty hard with Jingle's reads. Him scum reading me is usually indicative of town for players who aren't familiar with me.

what are you usually getting scumread for?

[Chara]

Toogeloo
Chara
Chickadee
Skygazer

none of these people are towny

Toog is debatable, and i know how you feel about me, but Chick and Sky are towny.

[Chara]

i kind of want to vote Gamma here. are you caught up, Gamma?

[Chara]

Nancy, Tor, do you two have a hydra PT? i'd rather you two played like one slot instead of like masons without a PT.

also, i'd like to hear more about my good scumgame. this has nothing to do with my ego, probably.

[Chara]

Twin Trap? of course i remember it. my posting was pretty wooden though, we barely scraped through. not that i'm not proud of the game.
but if you're using it to say that my being towny here doesn't matter because i fooled you as scum once, i'd like to see comparisons. i personally don't think my Twin Trap play was all that genuine. i've had more comfortable scumgames.

[Chara]

VOTE: BuJaber

[Chara]

i'm so tired.
BuJaber keeps feeling town to me in his posts. it's his stances i haven't liked.
i might go look at that more tomorrow.
also 1830 has kind of got my attention.

[Chara]

NicoRobin
TPFKAP
Thor665
Malakittens
Gamma Emerald
northsidegal

players i doubt are scum: Rational, Chickadee, Jingle, McMenno, Flicker

paranoia pile: Toogeloo, Cheeky, BuJaber?, Nancy Drew Shogunate

special tier: Elsa Jay

it would be nice if all or most of the scum were in the pile that's left.

[Chara]

actually there is really no reason Jingle couldn't be scum, but he gets to be there because charisma and i'm too tired to think more about it. maybe in 2 game days or so.
Gamma's being boring, which in my experience means he's a) bored, or b) not town.

[Chara]

why would town Bujaber have that reaction? he's not actually reading himself. that sort of lack of self-awareness is something i find towny, personally.

pedit: i'm not townreading Thor, and i am townreading Cheeky, just with paranoia.
townreading Flicker because in hindsight the wagon and the way Flicker claimed point to town. i guess it isn't one of my stronger reads but none of them this game are exceptionally strong.
Chick's just towny. i don't have much else to add.

pedit: the paranoia thing are players i don't want to lynch. tbe list at the top is "would lynch". should've made that clearer.

[Chara]

I guess you haven't seen my scumgame and you did SR me in TM when I was obv town so idk.

what's TM? don't recognize that acronym.

[Chara]

actually that post isn't clear at all, is it. i am very tired.
i took the playerlist and removed towny names. what's left are the not towny names at the top.

[Chara]

why would town Bujaber have that reaction? he's not actually reading himself. that sort of lack of self-awareness is something i find towny, personally.

this is to Jingle. i'm so good at readable posting.

come to think of it i haven't actually read nsg for alignment. i've just been agreeing or disagreeing with things said about her. sorry nsg, i'll actually look at you now.

[Chara]

Team Mafia - Yoshi scumread me and I assumed you were helping him.

oh. i'm sorry, i don't really remember. if Yoshi said i was then i was, he had no reason to lie, if he didn't say i was specifically then i probably wasn't.

thanks Elsa. that's what i meant.
and yes you get a special box for a 3p i don't know the wincon of. <3

pedit: it's all Sky, Cheeky.

[Chara]

i know i keep saying this, it's because i'm really tired but still feel like playing.
agreeing with RC's scumread on you is one thing i do remember. and while catching up i think someone (maybe also RC) said you weren't out of your scumrange and hadn't done anything towny. i realize i accepted that at face value without really challenging it.

[Chara]

ISOed nsg. i wouldn't lynch her currently. excited to see where she goes when she catches up.
i might have just missed it, but i can't find why Flicker is scum for nsg.

pedit: he was? shows where i stopped paying attention to RC's posts, then. i remember a scumread, haha.

[Chara]

VOTE: TPFKAP
l-1.

[Chara]

it's not like scum is going to kill them. unless you think the contentless slot is town, why not?
also the posts that are there are pretty scum. and honestly Thor is right about me on BuJaber, i can't help but TR it. another day we could revisit that.

and it's only informationless if TPFKAP is town.

[Chara]

cool. get the accused to claim and let's get rolling.

[Chara]

I mean ... that spew of crap could be give up posting I suppose. That's some consolation.

There is a VERY strong reason to believe that NicoRobin is scum in this game. Like bordering on logical certainty reasoning. Just trying to get this in before threadlock.

~D

qft.

[Chara]

{RR, Chara, NSG, Gamma, Mala}
{Elsa, NDS, BuJaber}
{NicoRobin, Chick, Thor}
{Jingle, McMenno, Toogeloo, Flicker}

If someone can tell me what the bottom 4 have in common I'll locktown you for the rest of the game.

why are Mala and Gamma so high?

[Chara]

Elsa, target.

Also a reminder that the wagon yesterday should be analyzed as though it were a town lynch, because scum did not know they were lynching one of their own(though technically until we know that they did not know they had a traitor, which is not made clear by TPFKAP's flip, it's possible they caught on that they were scum...they didn't say anything that appeared to be a traitor scum, but they did spend the first part of the day ONLY saying the word scum about people).

Speaking of which, we know now that the Alliance was 2 groupscum+traitor, so it's safe to say that The Operative is acting as a separate scum entity(likely alone), and the reavers are also likely their own scum entity(again, likely alone).

Game looks like 2+1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 12, from a purely speculative/flavor standpoint.

-Cerb

i'd actually say it's highly likely that scum was both looking for their traitor and that TPFKAP could have been identified as such, for reasons you state here.
but considering TPFKAP's iso, i don't know how much that knowledge would have deterred scum from bussing, anyway.

pedit: you crumbed traitor?

[Chara]

{RR, Chara, NSG, Gamma, Mala}
{Elsa, NDS, BuJaber}
{NicoRobin, Chick, Thor}
{Jingle, McMenno, Toogeloo, Flicker}

If someone can tell me what the bottom 4 have in common I'll locktown you for the rest of the game.

Cheeky, still wanted to know why Mala and Gamma are here.

[Chara]

Cheeky, still wanted to know why Mala and Gamma are here.

Because I skim reread everyone and felt Gamma town plus mala started off towny to me. I've not liked her lurking since but I figured that's not enough to take my initial impressions away. If her lurking is scum lurking it'll become clearer.

i asked because i feel the opposite on Gamma. Mala not so much.
but more to the point, they're at the very top of your readslist so i was hoping for something more concrete, but that might just be my style when constructing those lists.

also i don't want to lynch McMenno, but i'm going to review your ISO for why you want him/Skygazer slot because i forgot, haha.

[Chara]

no wait, i mean i feel the opposite on both as in i think they're both scummy, but i see more what you mean with Mala.

[Chara]

Cerb: i'm leaning towards Toranaga's behaviour towards Elsa Jay indicating to me that they aren't aligned. if Nancy Drew flipped scum i would actually think it's unlikely Elsa is teamed. of course that doesn't account for the possibility of an anti-town third party, but it's something.

[Chara]

You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.

i don't need to further explain why this line of logic doesn't really work, but the confidence with which it's asserted makes me townread it. i was townreading Jaber yesterday, anyway, once the wagons got up there.

[Chara]

NR is null rn
Nico has a bad habit of arguing why meta would prove her as town when she is scum, so without enough content there I don’t have any capability to read her
Could look at that RR vote though

keep in mind this is said with the bias of someone scumreading both slots:
Gamma/Nico aligned?

[Chara]

don't know if i buy the TMI thing at all. or maybe i just didn't understand your explanation.
but from what i do understand, Skygazer's mistake (as scum) was townreading Chick while not realising, or momentarily forgetting, that scum do know their flavour.

pedit: that helps. do you have any links?

[Chara]

Jingle: my read on Shogunate continues to evade me, but i don't think they're HoB.

pedit: i think Jaber's town, so let's leave that one. if i had to lynch someone right now it would be Nico, but i want to see how i feel about the whole list. particularly nsg.

[Chara]

as for Sky townreading Chick's 10. it's essentially a scumslip, one i'm not sure Sky would make.
been kind of getting over my Cheeky paranoia, but i would call most of my engagement this day phase skimming at best.

pedit: but you know i'm town, right McMenno? :>

[Chara]

Because I’m pretty sure Nico is River. I could be wrong though.

how would you know this is Nico doesn't know this? i don't remember roleclaims from Nico.

[Chara]

explain it like i'm 5. because i am 5. i'm five years old.

[Chara]

it's mostly the "i could be wrong" part. i guess i'm willing to let Nico live another day since there are more interesting targets?

[Chara]

if Chick had a rolecop, she'd know something about Toogeloo. if she targeted Nico, she'd also know something about Toogeloo.
now that i'm saying it, i wonder if Chick missed that?

[Chara]

why would you use what seems like pretty legitimate flavour information on two slots that aren't really that useful to the game?

[Chara]

and using a flavour cop on a slot that was likely to be lynched? in that situation i would let the slot die unless i thought they could be very useful, and cop someone i'm unsure about but could rely on if they turned up town. or someone who would be more difficult to catch if scum.
if not the first time, then the blatant alignment info you got for Porkens would have indicated this is basically a cop and you should pick your target more carefully.

[Chara]

Drixx: good to hear about your father.
normally i enjoy talking about flavour, but as i don't know the flavour here i'm exceptionally indifferent.
in terms of gamesolving, i believe in using whatever resources there are available. if a Flavour Cop actually exists, it means Almost is fine with flavour being used and just wanted to make the game unbreakable by massclaim.
so the existence of Chickadee's role is, to me, an indicator of how the game should or should not be played.

pedit: Cerb, you're not the player i want to hear that from!

[Chara]

I generally do whatever i think raises my wincon chances that isn't cheating.
Discussing flavor is not cheating.

[Chara]

i understand, and i've done the same thing (less so now since i've gotten yelled at for it myself) but i want to know why Chick picked her targets. i said what i would do given what we know about the game, but her answer is important to me. none of that was "i don't trust you because i think your targets were suboptimal".

[Chara]

it's worth noting that it was impossible for HoB to die last night. i'm sure most of you already knew that, but i did forget so maybe someone else did too.

[Chara]

it's worth noting that it was impossible for HoB to die last night. i'm sure most of you already knew that, but i did forget so maybe someone else did too.

wow. as soon as i posted that i remembered it was two, not one.
so just ignore everything i say, i guess.

[Chara]

also, and this is only using Cerb's post as a guide and the fact that Almost isn't giving you any direct flavour information: it sounds like it's unlikely Nico is actually River. otherwise that would be very direct information.

pedit: ascetic is a passive and usually active all the time as a result, Elsa.

[Chara]

that reminds me:
Flicker, can you hammer in LyLo/MyLo?

[Chara]

thanks. i was looking, but i only play on my phone so it's sometimes difficult to find what i'm looking for.

for what it's worth i'm less concerned with specific replies to my posts to Chickadee, now that i'm thinking she's probably town. they coupdn't hurt, though.

[Chara]

i think Chick's town.

[Chara]

^^^^^^
this is especially true for lategame. it's not about saving a mislynch, but rather helping to solve the game as a whole. a strong but scummy ISO is usually my first priority.
but that's neither here nor there!
also i've changed my mind, i'm now in favour of attempting to flavour game. this has to do with Chick being town, mainly.
of course, i can't actually do it (i hate reading the wikis of something i haven't seen myself) but i look forward to your efforts.

[Chara]

I explicitly believe the thief claim. I'm not entirely sure how that relates to Chick's alignment.

her targets/reason for targets/posting on this real life day, coupled with towny posting on day 1.

[Chara]

i may have made a math mistake somewhere, Chick, but that seems to be several hours before when you said you submitted it.

[Chara]

it's the date on a PM. do you have the correct one?

[Chara]

Or it's entirely possible flipping through things on my phone I got dates and such jumbled. But I copped @ L-2, and then promptly went into an escape room with friends.

But I'll await RR.

i assume you left after you got the result back?

why does the time for when Almost got you the result match with the mistaken time and not the real time?

[Chara]

Oh, I see, I got am/pm mixed up. derp.

I thought it was odd timing...because my phone was def dying that night before my escape room. But I was like "No self...time stamps don't lie"

MY BAD.

this could check out. i'll let someone else do that, i'm in class.

[Chara]

Oh, I see, I got am/pm mixed up. derp.

I thought it was odd timing...because my phone was def dying that night before my escape room. But I was like "No self...time stamps don't lie"

MY BAD.

wait, the escape room was at night, and yiu left for it immediately after copping Porkens...
but you copped Porkens in the morning?

[Chara]

Or it's entirely possible flipping through things on my phone I got dates and such jumbled. But I copped @ L-2, and then promptly went into an escape room with friends.

But I'll await RR.

copped in the morning, at L-2, then promptly entered the escape room.
"night before escape room" confirms the escape room happened at night.
what is the truth?

[Chara]

And I already said I was peicing together my timeline from the timestamps. I was assuming it was night, and I know I went in to an escape room that night. I thought the timing was odd too. But it was morning, which s why things seemed odd to me.

but then why say you submitted and then immediately went into the escape room? if you were just assuming it was nighttime, why did you also assume that the two happened right next to each other when they did not?

[Chara]

Cerb didn't verify the time, despite being sure that timestamp slips can catch scum. The argument for this being a scumslip is that him NOT verifying means that he didn't think Chick was lying.

I can say with reasonable certainty that if Cerb and chick are both scum, it is of two separate scumteams. I'm also not really sure I buy the 'didn't check the timestamps yet' thing, given that he's posted 6 times? today.

Thoughts?

eh, this doesn't resonate with me.
he wasn't going around verifying the times immediately after they were given. he hadn't done so and had drawn no conclusions yet.
i would assume he would have soon.

[Chara]

Because I've been very busy and I was trying, for my own personal sense of time, to think of when things happened.

Chara, serious question, are you considering voting me? If so, just do it.

calm down. voting you would only come after we've finished the whole questioning thing.
i'd do this with anyone who had presented information that seemed fishy, it doesn't matter how much i'm townreading them.

[Chara]

i'm also playing on mobile.
i understand you're irritated, and you should understand that i don't know your alignment, so blatant contradictions are something that i'm going to be interested in figuring out.

pedit: that, as well. besides the timestamps there's nothing that needs to be done right away. you kept responding so i assumed you had the time to.

[Chara]

VOTE: Malakittens
come here instead?

[Chara]

I just don't really see how a flavor day time cop is a town role.

I told Tora, I’m bored as f with this game and he said that it was still breakable by flavour, so I dunno. \_0_/

[Chara]

Nancy, is there anything i can do to help you engage?

[Chara]

townreading NDS now.

[Chara]

Apologies if it's not super coherent. I'm going to go sleep now. I'll check back in a few hours and see if this made sense to people. I'm open to better ways to try and get +EV out of it but I think there's not many plausible ways really.

oh good, you noticed.

[Chara]

that there aren't too many good ways to get max EV out of what you two noticed.

[Chara]

let's leave it for now.
i think there's a use for this, but perhaps not right at this moment.

also think this makes Flicker town, actually.
let's just keep lynching scummy players for a bit.

[Chara]

And Chara, its actually not possible to make use of this post townflip, which is the point of deciding today.

and this shows you've made a fundamentally incorrect assumption, which is why we can't use it yet anyway.

[Chara]

So I guess we'll wait a bit and let folks check in and decide if they want to do anything with it. If not, I'm personally happy to divulge what we've got. At this point, I can't imagine any town seriously having any doubts about us which means we're probably going to be killed off because I misplayed.

don't reveal it, you've already obvtowned.

[Chara]

i really doubt the entire game can be flavour-gamed with the information we have here. i think Almost is a better mod than that.
i

also

believe that anti-town factions potentially have enough power to overcome any confirmations we try to put in.

that said, i think flavour is part of this game. to the point that i've actually been looking into it even though i said i did not. those of you who are town and actually know a lot about the movie/series, please continue using that, because your analysis will surely be more informed than mine is.

pedit: and also i don't want to lynch BuJaber because i don't think his flip will tell us too much, and i think he's town.
let's lynch scummy players. considering the group we have here, surely we can do that? :>

[Chara]

are you wagoning Mala? i'm still doing that.

[Chara]

not trying to scare you, Mala, more looking for some more things to read you with. :>
why is nico town regardless of Chick?

[Chara]

You can't invite a hammer Elsa. What's done is done. :/

i think Elsa was already on the wagon.

[Chara]

tbh if chick didn't flavortown her i prob would still be scum-leaning on her. I know its calling the pot kettle black, but her posts dont sway me as shes scum hunting

if Chick isn't town, do you still think Nico's probably town?

[Chara]

Chick's probably town, for me the issue is the River-centric posts not always having to point to River. Chick said the cop is supposed to hint at the flavour, not blatantly state it.

do you care if you're lynched?

[Chara]

So I figure at this point the damage is done so I might as well point out what we have. Either A50 just thought we needed some extra special sentences or else most/all town also have some extra flavor they weren't considering flavor since it's a lead in to their role explanation.

ehhh i.... don't believe any damage had been done until you were unnecessarily explicit.
what does outing this help? you're already town and you won't be lynched.

what's done is done i suppose.

[Chara]

at least two third parties?
didn't catch that all, thanks Drixx.
please claim Mala! :>

[Chara]

can we at least make scum's job a

little

difficult? please?

[Chara]

and yet Almost gave the doctor ability to the other 3p. that's pretty harsh.

[Chara]

What? I'm not giving any info that's not already known.

Toog is likely 3p with similar bp properties hmm.

i meant the info about you, Cheeky, not about Flicker and Jingle. :>
anyway. it's fine.

[Chara]

So a Lyncher? Why would Lyncher have its flavor retracted?

i'd guess the flavour isn't scum?

[Chara]

who do you need to lynch, Mala?

[Chara]

we'll also have to keep all claims to L-2 instead of L-1, in case Mala has actually done her research and would recognize the captain and hammer.
i don't think the arguments for keeping Mala alive are good. she isn't town, she can't stop town deaths, and scum aren't going to care if they kill a townie that would also kill Mala or not.
she also has BP so we can't vig her.

pedit: don't care about Elsa, there's a chance he has a wincon that isn't anti-town, but you've already claimed yours.

[Chara]

Mala living encourages scum to shoot in the PoE pool because none of our claims make sense as mal and killing two people not of their faction is better than one. Also, if we get super ahead we can just lynch mal to give her the mutual win towards the endgame.

Also lyncher for mal is totally scarlet, not the operative.

why would we ever lynch Mal on purpose just to give Mala her win?
like i'm all for fun and fair play but playing to one's wincon is a thing. there is never a time i'm wasting a mislynch to get a 3p their win, unless we have mod-confirmed scum numbers and a guilty on the last scum.

and thinking that scum would purposely shoot in our PoE instead of in players they can't mislynch just for a bonus kill on a 3p that isn't a threat to them is just a really weird way to think abouy the nightkill.

[Chara]

We have the opportunity here to take out two anti-town players before a real night happens. Why are we wasting that?

i'm confused as to where you get the second anti-town from here.

[Chara]

oh. well, we already got him. i see what you were saying though.

[Chara]

eliminating anyone not of their faction is what scum want to do. a lyncher on a town target can only ever scumside, unless we as a town agree to hand Mala a win because... why? because we think the role is unfair? is that how we're playing mafia now?
Mala isn't someone scum is going to be going out of their way to eliminate, to the point they're going to shoot either blind or on flavour guesswork.

[Chara]

i can accept holding off on lynching Mala

today

if we can hit scum instead, sure. cannot accept letting her live much longer.

[Chara]

that's fine, but remember what i said about never allowing Mala a hammer opportunity.

[Chara]

your claimed single BP. :>

[Chara]

Ari would be my preference too, but i want to give him some time to do some work here if he's town.

[Chara]

assuming Mala is telling the truth about leaving the game, i guess that checks out.

[Chara]

you can take Cheeky and i right out of that for today due to Cheeky's claim and my implicit one.

[Chara]

out of that list my preference is in Gamma/Ari/NDS.
Nancy's last post looked towny but one post isn't everything.
VOTE: Gamma

that's also unfortunately based on flavour/role PoE, which i don't love but i also don't mind lynching in other scumreads. and most of the "don't lynch" list have townspewed already, with just Nico and Thor as exceptions for me.

[Chara]

This ship is your home and the crew is your family. In an effort to protect them, {explanation of what we do}

You're Inara. I have a different lead up. Jingle and Flicker both accidentally town told by saying they are part of serenity.

here's Cheeky's.
mine wasn't explicit anywhere, i suppose, since i was trying not to say anything about it, and i still won't say more than that. i knew exactly what Rational was talking about, though.
i guess it doesn't really matter because i'm certainly not being lynched today, but at this point i think scum

has

been paying attention so i want to be sure town is at least aware too.

also: i think there has to be anti-town/scum outside of the PoE, just by virtue of... probability? but this is a fine starting point.
i forget if i said so yesterday but i'm accepting Jingle's expertise on the matter of Mala.

[Chara]

i also think BuJaber's reaction to RR was really towny. thoughts on that?

[Chara]

when you say you weren't impressed with Menno's posts, do you mean you actively find any of them scummy, or you just don't find them particularly towny?

[Chara]

Pedit - yeah I'm recycling some of my stuff. I wanted this post to encompass all living players. Also chara is being really nice and if she is town I'd feel bad if she misread my intentions/thought I had this personal vendetta against her.

don't worry about it! even if you thought i was scum i wouldn't think it was anything personal.
thank you though. <3

[Chara]

P-edit: I'm pretty sure scum Chickadee would just claim a definitive flavor. No one can say otherwise, and if she fake claims on other scum, they're not going to say anything.

have you read your role PM, Tails?

[Chara]

also i don't think Nico was crumbing anything. could be wrong but i believe the 2 thing is an anime reference.

pedit: eh. if there's any doubt at all for you she's scum then Chick really needs to live. this is like choosing to lynch a scummy cop claim.
(and i think she's town, but we're talking about you here.)

[Chara]

P-edit: I'm pretty sure scum Chickadee would just claim a definitive flavor. No one can say otherwise, and if she fake claims on other scum, they're not going to say anything.

have you read your role PM, Tails?

actually need to be more specific. why would scum Chick claim a definitive flavour when that in itself is highly suspicious?

[Chara]

The biggest fundamental flaw with Chickadee's claim is that it requires someone familiar with the flavor to interpret it. Imagine signing up for this game with zero flavor knowledge. Maybe you just liked the player list or something. And then the mod tells you that you have to figure out your own reults based on random images.Tha's game solving inside of game solving, Inception levels of difficulty

this isn't a problem with the claim. flavour knowledge is important for this game, i can guarantee it.

[Chara]

if Toog's scum then i think he used his LR in a protown way on purpose. i don't know. i did agree with him on lynching Mala earlier but he's kind of just bouncing between lynches that might work at this point.

still think Tails slot is more likely scum than not even with Chick's flavour result.
also Cheeky: Tails knows about the scum TMI so i'm not sure he townspewed with the crumb thing.

[Chara]

if she claimed a certain flavour for you and was wrong, it's possible your role wouldn't match the flavour. there are still some ways to check.
i actually know mine, somewhat. and by know mine i mean i have two good guesses. :>

i do think she's probably town regardless of that, though. and she could have claimed a definitive alignment rather than a definitive flavour, like she did with Porkens.
though it's important to note that her role being real isn't really alignment indicative. i'm townreading her emotionally.

[Chara]

read Toog's recent ISO.

[Chara]

what's keeping me from jumping on Toog is... what the heck is scum Toog's angle? he's doing things i don't agree with, but it would take a major lack of self-awareness for scum Toog to continue to make enemies with the playerlist like he has been.

[Chara]

that's a valid criticism if you have reason to believe that's what Toog is doing.
TPFKAP was kind of openwolfing though, but i'd chalk that up to either not caring too much about the game or traitor-signaling. traitors usually are fine with being scummy for that reason and because they can't win by themselves anyway, but the latter doesn't apply here i suppose.

[Chara]

Also pretty sure it's the height of insanity to assume Nico/Tails is River, given that our only evidence of Chickadee's ability working did not result in an image of the persons role, but of people associated with them.

i think i've said this twice already, but yes.
Chick says it's an indirect clue (Tails being River would mean Almost gave a very direct clue), and Porkens wasn't shown as his real role either but as an association.

[Chara]

I will admit it might not be river, but the tone of the videos I got was very focused on river, and very focused on saving. Not hunting. Could be Simon. Still town.

And there's a line in my role pm that says the hints are things that I am involved in somehow definitely make me think a crew of the Serenity.

fine not lynching Tails today with this, at least.

[Chara]

VOTE: McMenno

[Chara]

it's nice to be able to townread Rational on something without it needing to be an emotional point.
mainly, because then when we agree i can feel better about that agreement.

[Chara]

i like feel reads, i think they're useful! but sometimes they come from a negative place, so it's nice to be able to confidently townread you from a "mechanical" point of view.

[Chara]

it's kind of annoying to know i was probably completely wrong now, but it's also one less slot to worry about sorting. better Gamma than someone i already had as town.

[Chara]

P.S. - The chances that NR dropped in the "2" crumb and somehow isn't HoB are drastically low. Hands of Blue. Two by two. Since we have our character redacted, there's no way that NR did that as a River crumb. Tails did a good job trying to salvage the slot, and even avoided the Amished tell ... but it's still the most probable slot we have to be scum, and the flip acts as a check on Chick.

how long were you sitting on that one in your PT? :>

[Chara]

if a townie got lynched day 1, only one could die at night, maximum. it's part of the setup.

[Chara]

VOTE: Tails

[Chara]

the crumbs were rather obvious, yes.

BuJaber shouldn't be our lynch today regardless.

[Chara]

Tails, your slot always had baggage. i didn't notice the crumb but Nico always had a good shot at flipping scum.

[Chara]

also hi light ethos! missed you coming in.

my very limited flavour knowledge aside... i listened to the dialogue in the trailer as well as the simon/river video. the trailer mentions the danger River poses, and seems to concentrate on the threat of the Alliance rather than the HoB. is that correct?
there's also the line "let's be bad guys." but it does focus on the crew of serenity and the Operative more than anything else.
i can't draw any conclusions here but i hope that the number of uou who understand the flavour better can. i think Almost picked that trailer for a reason. it could have a notable visual or hint in the dialogue.

[Chara]

never said it wasn't a lurker lynch! was a scummy lurker. and i found your entrance scummy as well, but i'd agreed not to lynch you. with the 2 crumb (i couldn't find a relevant one piece reference after all) and Rational on board, i'm down.

[Chara]

actually i do like snark. sounds like you're blaming your wagon on your personality though. :>

[Chara]

@Chara: You never answered the question on what you didn't like about my entrance. You can accuse me of deflecting all you want, but that doesn't work if you don't actually answer what I asked.

deflecting? i think i just said you were trying your best to convince Rational and others you're being wagoned for your personality.

your entrance was scummy. i haven't gotten any real sense of hunting from you besides "might have something on Jingle", a general dislike of Cheeky, and a willingness to lynch McMenno.
granted i've checked out of this game recently. who did you say the scum on your wagon was?

pedit: hm. ok. Cheeky, scum accusing you of lying isn't something i find particularly surprising nor something to be angry about. assuming Tails is scum, which i am and thought you were.

[Chara]

3184 is a whole lot of words to say something obvious a prove a point that didn't need to be proven nor is really valuable to prove, seeing as town ask seemingly useless questions all the time because they tend to be human beings.
one could almost say it's a very useless post!

pedit: i'm not reading your ISO unless you read mine.

[Chara]

because nobody cared that she asked a random question, i imagine. and considering we have two claimed neutrals and Rational said "the next Neutral to hide, i'm lynching, so speak now or forever hold your peace", it was actually a pertinent question.

also i see your Jaber scumread, i don't see an answer to "who's the scum on your wagon, Tails?"

[Chara]

i don't believe Thor read on replace in either, but the difference is he didn't keep bringing it up as an excuse for why he didn't understand a stance.

[Chara]

Tails your rebuttal also talks about your own answers to those questions (as though they matter, when they don't really), but they don't address Thor's point at all. that point being: it doesn't matter and you don't have a case for Cheeky asking pointless questions from these two questions. you keep veering off of the point into "i'm being attacked for trolly answers/snark" and it really is interesting to see that you still want to be townread for that.

example for question 1: Thor says town ask empty questions, which is very true. you reply that Cheeky should know better because she isn't a newbie. Thor never said this was something only newbies did. (it isn't)

also Nico isn't a newbie but that's besides the point as well.

[Chara]

also your defense has felt very "caught for the wrong reasons"-esque. i don't believe you've actually argued for yourself being town anywhere. and i'm referring to arguing about why your own play is town. what you

are

arguing about is being scumread for your predecessor's play, not actually replacing into an empty slot, that the situation is ridiculous, that you're being asked pointless questions, and that you're scumhunting.
i haven't really seen any notion that you'll actually flip town and that we're wrong, just that the methodology of hunting you is wrong.

so, let's lynch Tails, unless anybody thinks i'm wrong here? i'll listen.
as for BuJaber, i remember him playing in an offbeat way from Civilization but i'd need to put in some work to check the validity.

[Chara]

it's hard to obvtown when you're inactive, to be fair.

[Chara]

lhf is low hanging fruit.
also i definitely don't want to lynch Flicker today. i believe Rational is wrong about the flavour thing making her suspicious.

pedit: i'd still be scumreading Cheeky (and i may go back to that later when more flavous revealed), but i have them as town mechanically.

anyway you're here now, that's good.

[Chara]

ancy is very out of her scumrange in this page already and everyone that knows her (unfortunately nobody in this game) can tell it apart.

i've never seen scum nancy but if it helps i'm townreading all of her posts and don't want to lynch you.

[Chara]

i took a several month hiatus, that's probably why.

[Chara]

yay!
sorry you had to die, Ari. i'm saluting you for that excellent kill.
and Thor's wincon was also difficult, damn.

if i'm remembering his wincon correctly, Thor had no way of winning with the HoB. so i'm not sure you're correct, Cerb. he'd need to eliminate them all, and possibly other factions (though the latter would need to be an assumption on Thor's part) to make sure he's the final anti-town force in the game.
unless i misunderstood your point?

[Chara]

that more has to do with Thor's resistance to your interpretation of Chick's claim and what that might mean.

[Chara]

yes, i did understand that part. he couldn't scumside. it looks like none of his kills went through, though.
both HoBs and his are unaccounted for this time, and unless Elsa has a gun i'm doubting Toog used his lightning rod again.

[Chara]

i missed a few of the EoD 2 claims, i'll find them later.

[Chara]

Well Thor was gonna be my check today.

Since I’m claimed, I’ll listen to any requests for claiming but I do have some people in mind. I’d rather hear what other people think first though.

just don't check me or Elsa and i'm fine with it.
or Rational but that's more because they're obviously town.

[Chara]

that more has to do with Thor's resistance to your interpretation of Chick's claim and what that might mean.

It wasn't that he disagreed with our conclusion that outed him. It was that the logic he put forth was really bad (if his assertion was true, Chickadee is an outright day cop and not a flavor cop, and that doesn't make sense) and just not at all close to his usual standards. There was more to it, but that was what turned me on to him and I don't lightly post into the game thread that I'm sure someone is scum.

~D

ahh, yes, i misunderstood and thought you were drawing conclusions about Chick's role from what Thor said.
that makes more sense to me.

as for the claims: i'll look into it when i have a minute. i believe you.

[Chara]

hey Almost, Ethos is green in the first post. is there something you aren't telling us?

[Chara]

sorry Drixx! i misread the end of 3708. <3

[Chara]

i'm upset that Almost made me town in a game that seems to be majority non-town.
hell, i even rolled town in a 20-some player large where i was the sole member. i suppose in comparison to that this is preferable.

[Chara]

oh Mathblade, hi! somehow i missed you in that hydra. long time no see.

[Chara]

i don't believe BuJaber softed anything in the role pm conversation. he explicitly lacked it.
i still think he's town though.

[Chara]

but my only confident townread remains Rational by play and some mechanics, and then a few other players that don't include Bujaber by mechanics only.

[Chara]

oh and i'm not lynching Knight either. the slot's really town.

[Chara]

the only one of the unclaimed that would be a good cop is Jaber, in my opinion.
i never want to be copped (even flavour copped), and Rational is Rational. unless someone has good cause for scum Rational, which i haven't seen.

oh, and forgot to thank you for the claim list. so thank you!

pedit: i resisted it! turns out my Skygazer read was wrong.

[Chara]

hey Almost, Ethos is green in the first post. is there something you aren't telling us?

No, he's not. PROVE IT!

i'd just like you to know that i just spent five minutes making a fake screenshot as proof, because i forgot to actually take one, and then decided i didn't feel like uploading it to imgur.

[Chara]

where did you hide night 1?

[Chara]

also in light of this let's never lynch Elsa. like Ari, Elsa can make the brave, noble sacrifice of suiciding to flip a scum. potentially.

pedit: ok, excellent.

Almost: so far, disappointed with the Overkill title. this game is severely lacking in blood. i'm going to assume this our fault and not yours.

[Chara]

if Elsa's really a hider, he's either getting shot to frame somebody or he's going to die on scum. we shouldn't need to use a lynch on him.
of course, if he's lying and we figure that out it's a different story.

[Chara]

wait, if hiders hide behind town who gets killed, they die too.
so he wouldn't even need to be shot. we just need to get him to die at night. that seems very easy in this game.

[Chara]

in 3751 you can see me forget how hider works! i suppose it's my fault for never really thinking of it as anything but a weak cop.

[Chara]

the full-flavoured version of Ari's PM lacks the line about being a member of the crew. thoughts?

pedit: they aren't clear, Flicker.

[Chara]

There's basically no reason why they would ever hide behind someone who is likely to be shot at.

if Elsa's really town, essentially he can prove it by purposely hitting a scum slot. if not, he knows what happens.
that's how i feel about it.

[Chara]

actually, Cerb, the wiki explicitly states that the weak hider is the most common variation. not that that would matter to Almost.
but that's being nitpicky. you're right in that Elsa needs to claim if he dies on scum or not.

anyway, the way he's been playing this game isn't how most town would play it, period. his claims are ridiculously suspicious, so regardless of the type of hider he is, at this point if he's town i'm telling him to die at night and give us information, or get lynched in a few days.

[Chara]

file that one under 'wastes of a flavour cop'.
it's only helpful if Elsa is both scum

and

lying about ascetic. could be scum telling a truth, or town telling a truth.
checking somebody else assures we can actually use the result, friendly or scum.

pedit: if Elsa isn't weak then i'd just hope he dies upon a nightkill like with Thor.