Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:32 pm

Fuck it, 2 town vig-type roles and an SK aren't in this game

VOTE: wisdom

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:42 pm

Counterwagons to shadow:

In post 459, MagnaofIllusion wrote: Wraith (5) - Nachomamma8, farside22, Infinity 324, Kagami, Wisdom

In post 677, MagnaofIllusion wrote: Leonshade (5) - Kagami, Nachomamma8, Wisdom, SirCakez, farside22

Nacho wisdom and kagami were on both. Don't like how only after leon's claim nacho goes to calling wraith slot town and wanting to lynch shadow, and wisdom's interactions with shadow make him look town, so eh. Have to check kagami interaction with shadow but this looks good for kraska. Kraska/shadow interactions come out to null I think

MOD - Fixed borked quote ...

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:33 am

In post 1278, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1270, Infinity 324 wrote:@wisdom Why were you so concerned about my voting leon over shadow here if you wanted them both dead?
Because it felt like you were leon's buddy and you wanted to wagon shaddow in order to save leon

Why? Why was it suspicious to you that I wanted people to vote my scumread over my nullread? Why was it suspicious that I was concerned when people voted the person with only 5 posts over someone they also scumread with more posts?

In post 1279, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1276, Infinity 324 wrote:Fuck it, 2 town vig-type roles and an SK aren't in this game

VOTE: wisdom
True, an SK isnt. Leon is lyncher on town.

You're not concerned about the number of killing role claims?

What if tammy is scum who tried to cast doubt on you

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:44 am

VOTE: kagami

I think this is best actually. Coasting off townreads is bad, interactions with shadow are meh, and there's the counterwagoning. Plus the part where he (she?) and kraska scumread each other and never voted each other. I've decided that's likely SvT, so kraska can be town based off that.

Nacho by interactions and play is scummy but wisdom by setup spec is scummy and I think one is scum because their back-and-forth feels too distant to be TvT.

Who thinks scum is outside {nacho, kraska, kagami, wisdom}?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:47 am

In post 1281, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1280, Infinity 324 wrote:Why? Why was it suspicious to you that I wanted people to vote my scumread over my nullread? Why was it suspicious that I was concerned when people voted the person with only 5 posts over someone they also scumread with more posts?
Because number of posts is irrelevant; they were both equally scummy in my eyes and i had you trying to stop a push on one of them to get a push on the other.

Number of posts is very relevant. More content means more to analyze and a more accurate judgement. If you disagree, ok, but why was I scummy for that?

In post 1282, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1280, Infinity 324 wrote:You're not concerned about the number of killing role claims?

What if tammy is scum who tried to cast doubt on you
Not really? I was oneshot, Leon was oneshot, tammy's is disabled

Given Leon's reaction to my push its practically confirmed he was lying about having scum as a target so theres your balance

Ok, I buy it.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:51 am

In post 1189, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1183, kraska77 wrote:Infinity can u actually make up ur mind on me? If ure going to call me scum and then boohoo anything people bring up against me, then I don't get what ure doing
I don't want to make up my mind prematurely. By attacking other people's reasons, it helps us figure out whether you're worth voting, I think.

What's your issue with that?

In post 1267, Infinity 324 wrote:@nacho: Is it true that you almost always townread wisdom when he's town? How much confidence do you have in reading wisdom? Are there specific differences between this and other towngames of wisdom's? (Other than being less aggressive)

In post 1274, Infinity 324 wrote:@kagami: What's your read on kraska

In post 1275, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 769, kraska77 wrote:I don't see what's setting people off about shadow and wraith
Especially shadow he barely put out Any content to read him off of
Leon on the other hand is kind of obvious scum
pedit: that post feels pretty disingenious
@kraska Hadn't shadow posted as much content as leon at this point?

Questions I asked on the past few pages

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:52 am

In post 212, Kagami wrote:I have kraska as #3. Let me double check.

Bleh I read this out of context

Back to this but still have concerns about kagami.

VOTE: nacho

Ok wisdom who do you think is scum other than nacho

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:58 am

In post 1290, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1285, Infinity 324 wrote:If you disagree, ok, but why was I scummy for that?
Because you were actively trying to downplay the leon wagon with posts like "he only has 3 posts" and "im not a fan of voting for lurkers" and stuff while trying to get people on shaddow. To someone with scumreads on both, how do you imagine this looks?

Honestly in your position I'd be fine with it but I also get how you wouldn't be so w/e

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:01 am

I'm confident all 3 are town

Are you sure this is out of range for farside's scum play?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:27 am

I'd prefer kagami

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:38 am

Nacho questioned shaddow early on, didn't draw any conclusion from it, then counterwagoned away from shaddow twice, then only after it was confirmed that shaddow would die did he suggested lynching him over others.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:45 am

The issue is that my top 2 scumspects, wisdom and kagami, are both voting nacho and this seems like a really bad time to bus. I would say farside, but everyone who knows her seems to townread her so idk.

I might want to reread tammy but the timing of that vig claim looked very town to me.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:47 am

In post 1275, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 769, kraska77 wrote:I don't see what's setting people off about shadow and wraith
Especially shadow he barely put out Any content to read him off of
Leon on the other hand is kind of obvious scum
pedit: that post feels pretty disingenious
@kraska Hadn't shadow posted as much content as leon at this point?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:48 am

I still think the interactions between pere and shadow don't makes sense as SvS

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:05 am

In post 1323, kraska77 wrote:
In post 1321, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1275, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 769, kraska77 wrote:I don't see what's setting people off about shadow and wraith
Especially shadow he barely put out Any content to read him off of
Leon on the other hand is kind of obvious scum
pedit: that post feels pretty disingenious
@kraska Hadn't shadow posted as much content as leon at this point?
No

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8511819
and up

vs.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8515368
and up

They're pretty close.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:07 am

@nacho Are you saying you voted leon just because shadow had more content? Because if so that's incredibly shallow, especially since at least imo shadow's catchup was largely fluff/empty questions.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:08 am

In post 1267, Infinity 324 wrote:@nacho: Is it true that you almost always townread wisdom when he's town? How much confidence do you have in reading wisdom? Are there specific differences between this and other towngames of wisdom's? (Other than being less aggressive)

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:09 am

In post 1330, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1328, Infinity 324 wrote:@nacho Are you saying you voted leon just because shadow had more content? Because if so that's incredibly shallow, especially since at least imo shadow's catchup was largely fluff/empty questions.
No, I'm saying I voted Leon over shadow because Leon's catch up was worse.

Why was it worse?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:22 am

In post 1341, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1331, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1267, Infinity 324 wrote:@nacho: Is it true that you almost always townread wisdom when he's town? How much confidence do you have in reading wisdom? Are there specific differences between this and other towngames of wisdom's? (Other than being less aggressive)
I think that town!wisdom is generally a universal townread; I don't really remember a lot of times offhand where Wisdom was scumread more than not and I was the lone person defending him. I have decent confidence in reading Wisdom when I'm scumreading him; I've already laid out why he's scum here as opposed to be town; why don't you start there?

The thing is, your scumread on wisdom is based on meta p much so I can't really agree or argue with your reasoning there. What I do know is that wisdom's interactions with shadow looks a whole lot less like SvS than yours do.

But the more this interaction goes on the more confident I am that it's SvT, so if nacho flips town I'd look hard at wisdom.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:25 am

In post 1353, Nachomamma8 wrote:What I don't understand about your push on me is that your apology seemed legitimate; you seemed like you honestly regretted tunneling the shit out of me in two games in a row for two straight games, and, in this game, for just a couple blessed moments you were townreading me and apparently not falling into old habits and then suddenly you're pushing the shit out me all over again? Why?

Because you actually scum this time

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:26 am

The tone in nacho's posts is just making me more confident

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:46 am

I scumread shadow's catchup because most of his questions and points, even though they may have been good points, didn't seem to help him scumhunt and looked like busy work. But your answer is fair.

What's your read on me nacho?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:47 am

In post 1360, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1355, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1353, Nachomamma8 wrote:What I don't understand about your push on me is that your apology seemed legitimate; you seemed like you honestly regretted tunneling the shit out of me in two games in a row for two straight games, and, in this game, for just a couple blessed moments you were townreading me and apparently not falling into old habits and then suddenly you're pushing the shit out me all over again? Why?
Because you actually scum this time
When I flip town, will you vote Wisdom tomorrow?

Probably.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:51 am

In post 1363, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1352, Infinity 324 wrote:But the more this interaction goes on the more confident I am that it's SvT, so if nacho flips town I'd look hard at wisdom.
"SvT" and "TvT" interactions don't exist.
People can get very confident about things and be wrong. What you should be doing is analyzing the merit of each side; when I flip town, your approach should be much less "hmmm, I guess I was wrong on Wisdom because Nacho was
super
confident" and more "oh. I guess Nacho had a point! I guess that Wisdom suddenly believing that Leon is a lyncher on town despite not having any reason to do so at all IS pretty sketchy!"

Imo, looking for SvT and TvT interactions is one of the most reliable ways to scumhunt. It's not that you're confident, more like I would expect a TvT interaction to be more intense and have more direct engagement if you know what I'm saying. Anyway, my gut is usually reliable on these things.

Wrt the lyncher on town vs scum thing, I think wisdom thinks leon is fake and isn't bothering to explain it.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:15 am

In post 1382, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1380, Infinity 324 wrote:Imo, looking for SvT and TvT interactions is one of the most reliable ways to scumhunt. It's not that you're confident, more like I would expect a TvT interaction to be more intense and have more direct engagement if you know what I'm saying. Anyway, my gut is usually reliable on these things.

Wrt the lyncher on town vs scum thing, I think wisdom thinks leon is fake and isn't bothering to explain it.
It's one of my pet peeves because of how unreliable it is. It's not based on anything at all; what it looks like when people clash is based on personality far more often than alignment and how they react is typically far more indicative of an individual's alignment than it is for their interaction as a whole. I know that I'm not changing your mind on this here and now, but I hope one day that you move away from it.

If Wisdom was just gutreading Leon as fake, I think he'd be open with the fact that it was a gut read. I think that pretending like he has reasons for it is indicative of scum.

I'll move away from it when it stops being reliable

Multiple times before I've correctly called an interaction as SvT but dismissed that feeling because I individually townread the players involved. Imo a hard thing for any scum to do is to continue an intense extended interaction--when interactions feel off like this one does it's hard to pinpoint which player is making it feel like that but there's usually scum there. Maybe nothing I'm saying is making any sense but bottom line is in my experience my gut is good at finding SvT interactions.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:17 am

In post 1383, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1377, Infinity 324 wrote:I scumread shadow's catchup because most of his questions and points, even though they may have been good points, didn't seem to help him scumhunt and looked like busy work. But your answer is fair.

What's your read on me nacho?
Why?

Because I want to see if your thought process lines up.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:23 am

In post 1395, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1393, Infinity 324 wrote:Imo a hard thing for any scum to do is to continue an intense extended interaction
I've never found it hard to continue an intense extended interaction; instead, it's helpful in getting me townread

I find at least for me it wears me out quickly, and energy is my most important asset as scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:24 am

In post 1391, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1387, Wisdom wrote:oh, it's pretty easy
do i care to do it? no
this isn't your response as town.
this isn't anyone's response as town.

From what I've gathered of wisdom's personality, it makes perfect sense

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:45 am

In post 1407, Tammy wrote:
In post 1244, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1238, Tammy wrote:I don't know why people have a town read on cakes, so I'd love it if someone explained it to me. Preferably something better than he's town.
He's scumhunting but not trying to look like he's scumhunting.
Do you have something better than this?

No, but I find it to be quite a strong towntell. I can quote some examples if you like.

In post 1410, Tammy wrote:
In post 1252, Kagami wrote:I'm here. Agree Nacho is scum, was waiting for him to say something.

Tammy, even if MoI told me "GI is Town. After writing that, I rolled a d4 and switched the alignment only if I rolled a 4," I would have hammered GI.
I hate day ones that are cut short when people are still in information gathering stage because someone decides it needs to end. If it would have hit scum, I'd bite my tongue but still be annoyed about it.

QFT, only reason I didn't make a big deal out of it myself is because I personally gathered enough from d1. But clearly not everyone did.

In post 1418, Tammy wrote:Their interactions yesterday felt weird.

Will look into this.

I think I'm comfortable just saying tammy is town because she is.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:46 am

In post 1432, Tammy wrote:I'm also concerned about farside.

You're the first one to say this I believe. Why? I'm intrigued because I townread a lot of people and not her.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:30 pm

In post 1450, Kagami wrote:While it would be nice in some regards, I still doubt farside is scum.

Then who is nacho's buddy?

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:27 pm

Ugh this is the part where I start doubting my read

The question is whether it's a legit scum narrative for scum nacho to lay low-ish until he's under pressure and then start putting in lots of genuine-looking and thoughttful analysis. I don't know nacho that well, but I'm leaning towards that makes sense as a narrative.

As for the points themselves, they're a lot better than what I was seeing before. I'll look into them in a little bit.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:56 pm

In post 1461, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1459, Infinity 324 wrote:Ugh this is the part where I start doubting my read
predictable

Knew I was gonna get shit from you for saying that, but I'm probably not changing my vote. I feel bad for nacho that were BoPing the fuck out of him, but that's how it goes.

Infinity 324 · Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:37 am

In post 1466, Wisdom wrote:
In post 384, Kagami wrote:VOTE: shadow
I like this vote at this point of time
She could as easily vote wraith or leon but didnt

Good point.

Infinity 324 · Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:18 am

In post 1473, Tammy wrote:
In post 1459, Infinity 324 wrote:Ugh this is the part where I start doubting my read

The question is whether it's a legit scum narrative for scum nacho to lay low-ish until he's under pressure and then start putting in lots of genuine-looking and thoughttful analysis. I don't know nacho that well, but I'm leaning towards that makes sense as a narrative.

As for the points themselves, they're a lot better than what I was seeing before. I'll look into them in a little bit.
He has done it before. His laying low at the moment is not alignment relevant though, and he's also just as likely to not do much for a period of time and then have spurts of analysis as town.

Good enough for me to keep my vote.

Infinity 324 · Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:31 am

Hold the presses, wisdom backed out of a tunnel!

Need to reread farside and cakez, but so far I don't like farside's reaction to pressure. But my vote stays for now for reasons previously stated.

Also still need to respond to nacho's points on wisdom (I think some of those are worth responding to, wisdom)

Infinity 324 · Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:53 am

V/LA until tomorrow evening

Infinity 324 · Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:25 pm

I'm sorry I'm behind in this game but before ISOing I want to say that even though I feel sad to derail a perfectly good nacho wagon, I think I like farside better.

Infinity 324 · Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Uh ok since no one's voting farside my vote stays

Infinity 324 · Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:08 pm

I've heard before that cakez posts more awkwardly as town: people who've played wth him before, what do you think

Infinity 324 · Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:07 pm

VOTE: farside

Farside/cakez interactions: Farside opens by scumreading cakez when shadow was very bussable. There are reasons to do that as scumbuddies though and I've seen farside bus a lot as scum. Then she moves him to null. Also she chainsaws him against me...and he tries repeatedly to engage with her and she blows him off a lot. Then she hard townreads him...Makes sense as scumbuddy interactions but I need to look into more. Maybe after farside flips scum.

@farside Can you go through cakez's ISO and explain your read on him at each stage and why

Other stuff in her ISO: we know her scumreads in 563 are all non-mafia. Also she barely mentions nacho at all until d2 when she votes him...and she doesn't mention wisdom except to soft-defend him against cakez's meta accusation, until d2. 1546 is a good point and I didn't like wisdom's response, not sure if farside would being that up on her scumbuddy but definitely something to look at if she's somehow town. Anyway I think farside/nacho is more likely than farside/wis but there is some possibility of a last minute mad bus attempt.

If anyone still think she's town by the way, look at 563 and see if she's trying to change her approach. She's less aggressive now but still not engaging and trying to solve people. Also she had shadow as null and didn't engage with him, classic scumbuddy interaction. Then she townreads him with pre-flip association with bulba...and never goes back to that read after bulba flips town.

Anyway there's a lot in farside's ISO in terms of interactions and there's more to go into but that's it for now.

Still think wisdom/nacho is S/T because I would very much expect them to start engaging and working together after wisdom's turnaround. Not sure if nacho has posted since then so it might just be wisdom scum. I would say it's unlikely for farside to be bussing here but I know that's not true and she can bus a lot. Need to check how early she was on the nacho wagon today.

Infinity 324 · Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:32 am

Never mind, I'll bring it up again after we hear from nacho

Infinity 324 · Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:35 am

Tbh I kinda want to lynch farside now and then figure shit out later. I'd be surprised if she's town because of her reaction to pressure, interactions with shadow, general approach to the game after she said she'd try to improve, plus I remember her being clearly town as town both times I played with her before.

Infinity 324 · Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:00 am

It's possible it doesn't, but there is a reason behind that.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

I'm feeling like nacho is town.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:04 am

Why is wisdom town to you? What do you think about thing about the scumteam being eliminated by n1?

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:12 am

In post 1629, Leonshade wrote:
In post 1627, Infinity 324 wrote:Why is wisdom town to you? What do you think about thing about the scumteam being eliminated by n1?
The Magna quote everyone keeps bringing up, it's about the entire game ending N1.

How would the game continue with all 3 scum eliminated, assuming that you leave the game when xykon dies, and that xykon is groupscum?

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:14 am

Scumslip?

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:18 am

I think leon is some weird made up 3p role tbh

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:21 am

In post 1615, Wisdom wrote:my assumption is he didnt realize how pro-town a lyncher on scum claim is and he thought he had to make it more town

And he didn't trust the mod to know what is and isn't pro-town enough?

My theory is that he got 2 fakeclaims, 1 town, and 1 pro-town lyncher.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:25 am

In post 1641, Kagami wrote:Maybe a lyncher on town constitutes a threat to town; then everything makes sense.

Yeah that makes the most sense actually.

Anyway we know there's something weird going on with leon and he needs to die before endgame.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:26 am

In post 1645, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1640, Infinity 324 wrote:My theory is that he got 2 fakeclaims, 1 town, and 1 pro-town lyncher.
and why didnt he just claim the town one?

To explain some of his scummier actions and because it might be more believable in some way with the setup.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:27 am

If we figure out who leon's target is that could help us out.

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:46 am

Leon why are you trying to help town?

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:01 am

In post 1647, Infinity 324 wrote:Anyway we know there's something weird going on with leon and he needs to die before endgame.

Ok so moving on...can we get more votes on farside?

Infinity 324 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:39 pm

Why is nacho scum for not catching up yet 0_0

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:46 am

In post 612, Infinity 324 wrote:Shadow, your question to me was already addressed and answered.

I'm ok with shadow votes. His questions don't seem to be written in an attempt to gamesolve, they're more trying to look busy and defending himself. And to add on to the list of hypocritical things I've said this game, I don't really like shadow taking seriously tammy not moving her vote. To be fair, this time tammy clearly said that it was for fun. It just looks like an attempt to look busy.

Ok I've convinced myself

VOTE: shadow

I'm not a fan of voting someone with 3 posts on page 25, though I will check again what those posts are...

What do you think of this reasoning?

Can you explain your read on cakez throughout the game, including when and why you dropped your scumread on him and what your read on him is now?

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:48 am

As for your frustrations, I think there's some mindmeld going on in this game and you kind of ended up on the outside of that so people may find it harder to understand your reasoning and motivations.

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:13 am

I don't know why you're so concerned about the paranoia tbh

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:28 am

In post 1703, Wisdom wrote:im not concerned

Then let it go

Infinity 324 · Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:07 am

In post 1565, Infinity 324 wrote:Tbh I kinda want to lynch farside now and then figure shit out later. I'd be surprised if she's town because of her reaction to pressure, interactions with shadow, general approach to the game after she said she'd try to improve, plus I remember her being clearly town as town both times I played with her before.

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:39 am

I am really not feeling this right now, will respond to the case on wisdom and farside's post tomorrow

Infinity 324 · Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:55 pm

In post 1776, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1565, Infinity 324 wrote:after she said she'd try to improve,
Why does her saying she'd try to improve mean anything to you?

Because she doesn't look like she's trying to improve.

In post 1777, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1566, Wisdom wrote:i still wanna know how "if nacho hasnt posted it might mean wisdom scum" makes sense
Also general reminder to explain this now that I've posted although it's mostly for curiosity's sake.

Yeah I kinda said that too early but I was expecting you and wisdom to start engaging given his turnaround and even more so now with you thinking he's town if you guys were in fact both town. My logic was off though since it's only really scummy if both sides do it but I only saw one side so yeah.

In post 1791, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1683, SirCakez wrote:ffs you guys Nacho just threw out a shitload of AtE then started lurking and it's working! It reminds of Musical Mafia where he did the same thing as part of the Pied Piper and nearly got away, but Cerberus saved the game.
Meta!

Using Musical Mafia as an example of my scum play is sort of a poor example when another head was the primary posting head.

In post 1686, farside22 wrote:Many sheeping without explaining coming and I feel myself hating this game more because all I see is apparently it's ok to add a vote for shitty reasons but I have to jump through hoops to explain myself more then anyone else does in this game.

I seriously wish someone at the end of this game to explain why that happens because currently it's the last straw for me at this point where I want nothing to to with mafia any more.
Don't really see these two things coming from scum-Farside.
Surprised that others do.

It seems genuine but that doesn't mean it's necessarily town.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:19 am

In post 1738, farside22 wrote:
In post 1687, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 612, Infinity 324 wrote:Shadow, your question to me was already addressed and answered.

I'm ok with shadow votes. His questions don't seem to be written in an attempt to gamesolve, they're more trying to look busy and defending himself. And to add on to the list of hypocritical things I've said this game, I don't really like shadow taking seriously tammy not moving her vote. To be fair, this time tammy clearly said that it was for fun. It just looks like an attempt to look busy.

Ok I've convinced myself

VOTE: shadow

I'm not a fan of voting someone with 3 posts on page 25, though I will check again what those posts are...
What do you think of this reasoning?

Can you explain your read on cakez throughout the game, including when and why you dropped your scumread on him and what your read on him is now?
So basically you didn't read my large post where I said things in regards to cakez?
Or you don't get it?

Sorry, I must have missed it

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:31 am

Can you summarize your case on wisdom farside and we can talk about it? I promise if you flip own I'll seriously consider it.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:52 am

In post 1812, farside22 wrote:
In post 1775, Nachomamma8 wrote:Would be interested in hearing about farside's reasons for hard townreading Cakez if they still apply.
Are you scum reading him?
I ask because all I saw in catch up was accusing him of tunneling, which is hypocrisy at best and wrong at worst.

As for scum his scum game is more weak pushes and lack of content. I see none of that here and I also have yet to see anyone express why they are scum reading him other then some association with me where neither of us are dead.
I don't expect many really think about that but I have a higher expectation from infinity who called me out day 1 fit association.
That's just me bitching though.

pre-flip speculation is a lot different that assuming someone's alignment for your reads.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:53 am

In post 1817, Kagami wrote:That's usually exactly what people mean when they say "pre-flip speculation."

That would be "pre-flip association"

What I did is more like "if farside is scum, who could be her buddy?"

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:38 am

In post 1819, farside22 wrote: 1) the kill on bulba over his strong scum read.

See, I can buy it as impulsive town who justifies is by saying "I was gonna tunnel him all game"

2) only one death night 1 and that was on scum which even though this is more hypothetically then anything, lack of second death could be because Wisdom scum used his kill day 1 for the scum team.

I think it's also likely tammy was shot but sure

3) during the tunnel on nacho at no point did Wisdom read as though he was satisfied with nachos response and sudden switch reads fake.

Seeing a different narrative can really change your perspective on things, and that's what seemed to have happened when wisdom saw the narrative of you/cakez being scum. IT actually makes a lot of sense as a town mindset imo.

4) weak meta and lack of really trying to figure players out.
That last one is biggest one since with walking dead he did more interaction and understanding and this game is just attacking weak points.

I wasn't in that game of course, but when I played with wisdom before I remembered him being more attacking than questioning as well.

5) bulba he was town and he attack Wisdom and found him scum. You can ignore everything else but a dead townies is something to consider when looking for truth in players.
He said Wisdom was known for bussing and saw issues with wisdom. Before bulba could expand and be more involved he was killed.
I know this is part of repeating point 1 but after replacing into a game called first mafia I know bulba can read deeper then others when he's town.

Ok.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:40 am

In post 1821, farside22 wrote:
In post 1814, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1812, farside22 wrote:
In post 1775, Nachomamma8 wrote:Would be interested in hearing about farside's reasons for hard townreading Cakez if they still apply.
Are you scum reading him?
I ask because all I saw in catch up was accusing him of tunneling, which is hypocrisy at best and wrong at worst.

As for scum his scum game is more weak pushes and lack of content. I see none of that here and I also have yet to see anyone express why they are scum reading him other then some association with me where neither of us are dead.
I don't expect many really think about that but I have a higher expectation from infinity who called me out day 1 fit association.
That's just me bitching though.
pre-flip speculation is a lot different that assuming someone's alignment for your reads.
I'm not seeing the difference.
Wisdom called Cakez scum with me because my read on him.
That's (1) weak shit to go off considering his town reads of players are for crap reason and (2) is still an association pre flip.

I'm talking about my behavior, not wisdom's behavior.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:41 am

specifically, my behavior in 1561

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:49 am

I guess what I don't understand and what I think nacho doesn't understand is why you put the "I was expecting more" and "nacho is scum" in the same post if they're unrelated.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:53 am

In post 1681, Tammy wrote:Was hoping for something way more from Nacho

You mean this part? I thought it was just in reference to how you hadn't caught up.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:58 am

Then I don't get your issue with what she said.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:09 pm

In post 1840, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1804, Infinity 324 wrote:Because she doesn't look like she's trying to improve.
I don't think that following through with promises to improve is particularly indicative of alignment. I don't think that someone saying that they are going to stop overreacting means that they're going to stop overreacting; generally, the reason why they overreact has something to do with their personality or is fairly entrenched and isn't going to change just because someone says it is. There are plenty of times when people say they are going to do something and then they don't do it; New Year's is famous for this sort of thing.

In post 1804, Infinity 324 wrote:It seems genuine but that doesn't mean it's necessarily town.
You're right that farside could be annoyed because she's being held to a higher standard than townies and that this is "caught for the wrong reasons" scum farside, but the way it unfolded didn't really feel that way and it feels like there's a big enough gap between this response and Duck Duck Goose where, again, she'd have to be going pretty deep if she was scum. The situation that she's set up is basically that people are voting her are causing her to quit playing mafia which, if intentional, is like an exceptional form of emotional terrorism. I think scum are less likely to set up their emotions like this because they feel like they're being darkly manipulative whereas townies are more likely to say it because it feels like they're being attacked unfairly. Does this make sense at all?

For the first part, there's quite a big difference between trying to improve and actually improving--just the time where see was trying to productively engage (which to be fair, she started doing with me again) seemed to me to be too short to be a legitimate attempt. (Really sorry farside if you are in fact town and trying to improve).

For the second part, that does make sense, specifically the the part about quitting mafia.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:10 pm

In post 1842, Nachomamma8 wrote:Which boils down to she's familiar with me and my schedule so I'd imagine that she'd understand better why the Monday catchup didn't happen than other people would.

There's still stuff I don't really understand but it's better if you just talk to her about it at this point.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:14 pm

In post 1738, farside22 wrote:
In post 1687, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 612, Infinity 324 wrote:Shadow, your question to me was already addressed and answered.

I'm ok with shadow votes. His questions don't seem to be written in an attempt to gamesolve, they're more trying to look busy and defending himself. And to add on to the list of hypocritical things I've said this game, I don't really like shadow taking seriously tammy not moving her vote. To be fair, this time tammy clearly said that it was for fun. It just looks like an attempt to look busy.

Ok I've convinced myself

VOTE: shadow

I'm not a fan of voting someone with 3 posts on page 25, though I will check again what those posts are...
What do you think of this reasoning?

Can you explain your read on cakez throughout the game, including when and why you dropped your scumread on him and what your read on him is now?
So basically you didn't read my large post where I said things in regards to cakez?
Or you don't get it?

Farside, can you quote this please?

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:18 pm

The thing is I would expect town!farside to directly respond to my thing about her not improving. She did give an explanation for being not being as engaged, which would kind of count, but I guess I was expecting more than that, idk

PEdit: I agree with the above.

Infinity 324 · Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:15 pm

That's actually pretty convincing tbh

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:37 am

Well this will be interesting

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:37 am

I need to ISO cakez again before voting him.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:23 am

That's a shitty vote count.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:41 am

VOTE: cakez

Fine.

This game is kinda hurting my head, so I might just reread everything before the next day phase.

Right now I feel like scum is in {cakez, farside, nacho} but we'll see.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:45 am

Those are valid criticisms tbh

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:27 am

In post 1899, kraska77 wrote:

Sometimes you just have bad days, you know?

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:31 am

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:36 am

In post 1936, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1930, Infinity 324 wrote:It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.
Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....

Lol, there's no mafia vig. If shaddow was killed by his own team, it was in place of a nightkill.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:44 am

In post 1941, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1938, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1936, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1930, Infinity 324 wrote:It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.
Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....
Lol, there's no mafia vig. If shaddow was killed by his own team, it was in place of a nightkill.
You want me to believe that mafia-Leon killed Mafia-Shaddow so that mafia-Leon would not be lynched by town today.

I'm saying that if that is the case, why would mafia-Leon need to shoot mafia-Shaddow when mafia-Shaddow could just as easily shot himself?

That leaves mafia-Leon free to do other nefarious mafia things.

Right?

Well, shaddow can still use an action if he gets shot. But fair enough.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:40 am

I don't get why people stopped townreading farside

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:42 am

scumreading* farside

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:04 am

We should get the replacement caught up and just lynch someone already. I think town is a little bit stuck. Not to mention the deadline obviously

Sorry panther someone else can do that because it's just too much to sift through for my brain now

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:32 am

In post 1976, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 1975, Infinity 324 wrote:We should get the replacement caught up and just lynch someone already. I think town is a little bit stuck. Not to mention the deadline obviously

Sorry panther someone else can do that because it's just too much to sift through for my brain now
ya no worries I'll get there. I never give cliffs when people ask, personally

you may or may not recall my penchant for focusing on small details, but this post of yours is pinging me

first sentence because it's like you're not considering that I could be scum. which makes me think you're scum that knows I'm town

second sentence because "town" vs. "we" tells etc. These aren't foolproof bc some people just talk like that, but it always jumps out at me

Actually you were scum when we played before and I don't remember you focusing on details.

Re: the first sentence, I don't see how that assumed you're town, I don't know so we should catch you up in case you're town. I don't see why you wouldn't.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:39 am

He has to kill whoever is xykon, and I think he leaves the game after

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:39 am

He is a JoaT in addition to being a lyncher.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:39 am

But xykon can die in any way for him to win. So it's not really a lyncher.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:41 am

No, that's what he thought wisdom was for some odd reason

Pedit: @cakez

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:44 am

The thing is there are so many different theories about what's really going on there and none of them make much sense. Now that I think about it though, isn't the simple explanation that he's either telling the truth or some other 3p and wisdom is scum? Wisdom has looked town, but he's also quite confident in his scum play.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:46 am

In post 1988, SirCakez wrote:
In post 1987, Infinity 324 wrote:No, that's what he thought wisdom was for some odd reason

Pedit: @cakez
No I mean like the "I don't want to discuss this anymore" stuff
Like shying away from the theory that he could be a lyncher on town

I think it was cause he didn't want to out that he though wisdom was lyncher on town

I mean, leon could be scum but no one softclaims scum

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:52 am

In post 1991, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1989, Infinity 324 wrote:Now that I think about it though, isn't the simple explanation that he's either telling the truth or some other 3p and wisdom is scum?
That's the simple explanation. I don't think that it's a true one.

Fair, but the other ones are weird enough that I'd give it at least some weight.

For panther, here'a the issue. Someone brought up a quote from MoI a while ago where he said it was terrible setup design to have the game potentially end by n1, which is what leon's role and wisdom's role together make possible. So the explanations are

-wisdom is scum
-leon is lyncher on town and that constitutes a threat to town, so the game continues while he's alive
-MoI went against what he said earlier
-Leon is mafia and killed his own member for towncred

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:54 am

In post 1980, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1976, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 1975, Infinity 324 wrote:We should get the replacement caught up and just lynch someone already. I think town is a little bit stuck. Not to mention the deadline obviously

Sorry panther someone else can do that because it's just too much to sift through for my brain now
ya no worries I'll get there. I never give cliffs when people ask, personally

you may or may not recall my penchant for focusing on small details, but this post of yours is pinging me

first sentence because it's like you're not considering that I could be scum. which makes me think you're scum that knows I'm town

second sentence because "town" vs. "we" tells etc. These aren't foolproof bc some people just talk like that, but it always jumps out at me

Actually you were scum when we played before and I don't remember you focusing on details.

Re: the first sentence, I don't see how that assumed you're town, I don't know so we should catch you up in case you're town. I don't see why you wouldn't.

Would like a response for this

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:16 am

In post 2002, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 1995, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1991, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1989, Infinity 324 wrote:Now that I think about it though, isn't the simple explanation that he's either telling the truth or some other 3p and wisdom is scum?
That's the simple explanation. I don't think that it's a true one.
Fair, but the other ones are weird enough that I'd give it at least some weight.

For panther, here'a the issue. Someone brought up a quote from MoI a while ago where he said it was terrible setup design to have the game potentially end by n1, which is what leon's role and wisdom's role together make possible. So the explanations are

-wisdom is scum
-leon is lyncher on town and that constitutes a threat to town, so the game continues while he's alive
-MoI went against what he said earlier
-Leon is mafia and killed his own member for towncred
real quick, how can their claims have made it possible for the game to end n1?

I saw from wisdom he could daykill and if he kills town it requires one less vote to lynch him (hated). is that the entirety of it? does hated modifier stick for rest of game or was it just d1

Dayvig scum + scum lynch + vig scum = dead scumteam

Now that I think about it, there could be a traitor too I guess.

Not sure about the hated part

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:36 am

BP and flavor cop

Infinity 324 · Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:59 am

Tammy's case is very compelling

Infinity 324 · Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:40 am

kraska, I'm really just having difficultly with this game right now and it makes it hard to be invested. Next day phase hopefully it'll be better, but this is what it is for now.

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:28 am

Just lynch someone, I'm definitely willing to vote nacho if necessary

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:04 am

VOTE: nacho

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:19 am

Why the unvote?

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:01 am

Let's kill group scum first

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Nacho and cakez are both at L-2

Infinity 324 · Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:19 pm

VOTE: cakez

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:26 am

I feel like massclaim might be useful here

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:28 am

kraska do you think scum shot tammy again?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:34 am

what do you guys think about massclaim

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:54 am

Ok I think it's best to just claim this now. I'm a 2-shot neapolitan. N1 I investigated nacho and got nothing, which makes sense because cakez could've roleblocked me. The thing is I also investigated nacho N2 and also got no result, which is weird. It's very unlikely for scum to have 2 roleblockers, and it's possible a town role interfered somehow but not sure what that would be, or nacho is just ascetic and scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:00 am

I'm oracle of the sunken valley

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:02 am

Monster in the Darkness would be considered bad-guy flavor right?

If so then flavor can't imply alignment.

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:08 am

Would anyone else like to comment on my claim?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:13 am

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:15 am

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:53 am

Ok ye VOTE: nacho

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 am

Oh ffs

UNVOTE:

That means nacho is town. But why am I scum?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:59 am

Wait that still doesn't explain very much since obviously nacho wouldnot have been killed n2. Pere, why did you rolestop nacho both times?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:03 am

Tammy was a universal townread

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:05 am

I can't imagine any scum would think it's a good idea to kill nacho over kraska, me, kagami, or anyone else tbh

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:06 am

I think it's more likely that kraska's theory is right and scum is just panther

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:07 am

VOTE: panther

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:11 am

In post 2209, Leonshade wrote:
In post 2204, Infinity 324 wrote:I think it's more likely that kraska's theory is right and scum is just panther
Then what is Xykon?

Hmm, good question.

Peregrine could also be scum I suppose. But I don't think he no killed on purpose if that's true, since then he'd claim a rolestop on someone more townread. It's possible that there's some weird mechanic that prevented scum from killing, but eh occam's razor.

UNVOTE:

Need to think about this more.

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:17 am

Pere, nacho was the second lynch choice for d2. There is no way in hell he was the target of a kill n2.

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:18 am

How does scum!me know nacho was rolestopped instead of just doc'ed?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:19 am

In post 2223, Leonshade wrote:VOTE: Kagami

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:28 am

In post 2227, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2218, Infinity 324 wrote:Pere, nacho was the second lynch choice for d2. There is no way in hell he was the target of a kill n2.
Yet, I protected him, and there was no kill.

See, my issue is that I don't think scum would shoot tammy twice in a row even if they missed that tammy was BP

what even

PEdit: leon unless you're an SK or something you can't be arguing about how early the game ends unless you think wisdom is scum. Lyncher on scum is not a threat to town.

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:31 am

In post 2233, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2221, Infinity 324 wrote:How does scum!me know nacho was rolestopped instead of just doc'ed?
Well, in theory, when you are the last scum, most mods will let scum PRs kill and do their PR thing. You could have PRed him night1 while Cake tried to kill, and tried both last night.

My question is why would you pick him 2 nights in a row if you though he was ascetic after the first night?

And why would your failure make you vote him?

I didn't think he was ascetic after the first night, I thought cakez blocked me.

After the second time I got not result, I did think he was ascetic and therefore scum.

In post 2234, Kagami wrote:
In post 2203, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't imagine any scum would think it's a good idea to kill nacho over kraska, me, kagami, or anyone else tbh
Why on earth would scum consider killing me? or you?

We were never on earth getting lynched

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:32 am

In post 2240, Leonshade wrote:
In post 2236, Infinity 324 wrote: PEdit: leon unless you're an SK or something you can't be arguing about how early the game ends unless you think wisdom is scum. Lyncher on scum is not a threat to town.
I don't know what this is in reference to???

Where you said four scum means the game could end by d2

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:35 am

In post 2244, Leonshade wrote:
In post 2240, Leonshade wrote:
In post 2236, Infinity 324 wrote: PEdit: leon unless you're an SK or something you can't be arguing about how early the game ends unless you think wisdom is scum. Lyncher on scum is not a threat to town.
I don't know what this is in reference to???
Oh, now I see.

Four scum + me + Wisdom + 7 others = 13
Wisdom kills Bulba, town mislynch, I shoot town, scum NK = 4 scum, 5 town, D2 is LYLO.

Ah, got it

In post 2245, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2239, kraska77 wrote:
In post 2233, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2221, Infinity 324 wrote:How does scum!me know nacho was rolestopped instead of just doc'ed?
Well, in theory, when you are the last scum, most mods will let scum PRs kill and do their PR thing. You could have PRed him night1 while Cake tried to kill, and tried both last night.

My question is why would you pick him 2 nights in a row if you though he was ascetic after the first night?

And why would your failure make you vote him?
he thought he was roleblocked by cakes so he went for it again
Was he jailkept and given a story the first night? If so, I missed that part of the thread.

What story?

In post 2246, Wisdom wrote:anyway, thog can't be town given the rest of the flavors
plus

In post 21, farside22 wrote:Outside looking in.
I thought this was farside crumbing Celia (who is an outsider), so my thinking is he's Thog with Celia as a fakeclaim

Why would leon lie about xykon existing?

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:38 am

In post 2251, Wisdom wrote:because he's lyncher on town or because the mod is messing with him and xykon doesn't exist

I guess his claim of lyncher on xykon wouldn't make sense if xykon didn't exist, but eh

This isn't a bastard game tho

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:42 am

In post 2255, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2249, Infinity 324 wrote:What story?

In post 0, MagnaofIllusion wrote:4. SirCakez - Tarquin, Mafia 2-Shot Jailkeeping Story Vendor, lynched Day 2.

It looks like he Jailkeeps the person, and sends them a story instead of a fruit?

pedit= who changed fruit vendor to visitor? Thats not the same thing.

Oh I missed that part.

Anyway that's what I thought happened and with nacho being a VT claim and top suspect I thought he was a good target

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:46 am

I guess it didn't make much sense for me to be JKed n1, didn't really think that through too much

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:47 am

VOTE: panther

Infinity 324 · Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:55 am

Magna is a god

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:55 am

Yeah nacho what do you think about the second nokill? Pere doesn't make sense as scum so for me you doing the Hail Mary play makes the most sense

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:09 pm

In post 2399, Tammy wrote:
In post 1094, Infinity 324 wrote:visit

I picked up in this day two, which indicated that infinity was roled. Night two I expected either infinity or Kraska to die. I can't imagine anyone actually reading and paying attention to the game in full shooting nacho, a claimed vt who was widely scum read over Kraska, who was the most active pusher of cake (yes, wisdom I know you pushed it too but Kraska was passionate about it) or infinity who was obviously roled.

Yeah I don't know what I was thinking when I said that

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:28 pm

It's...possible there's 4 group scum, but that's like a 5% chance even with this much power.

I wonder if we're overthinking this nokill N2 thing and someone just forgot to make a kill. That happens sometimes, though it would say something about who it was.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:30 pm

Maybe nacho forgot

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:37 pm

In post 2411, Wisdom wrote:you find him forgetting to kill more likely than trying to save himself by killing leon..?

Maybe. Maybe he claimed his real flavor because of leon and is a flavor godfather. Maybe he was hoping leon would target someone else. I think you're underestimating the likelihood of scum just forgetting to make the kill, if they're demotivated I see it as a reasonable possibility.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:39 pm

In post 2413, Infinity 324 wrote:Maybe he claimed his real flavor because of leon and is a flavor godfather.

Uh, ignore the first part of the sentence.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:42 pm

We'll see what happens at endgame

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:00 pm

And on that note, I'm silly for not claiming this before.

But I'm actually 4-shot. Last night I got town on kagami cause I was afraid pere would rs nacho again...yeah I played this role like shit.

Anyway pere can rolestop me tonight and I'll investigate nacho. Even if we're sure nacho is scum it doesn't hurt to get another shot. So we can lynch wisdom or someone today

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:09 pm

I should've claimed 4-shot after pere claimed rs, and I even think targeting nacho was better given that I didn't. But oh well

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:16 pm

In post 2373, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Infinity 324,
Leonshade
,
PeregrineV
,
Tammy
, Nachomamma8,
Kagami
, Wisdom

Tammy is near-conf town since if she was scum she'd probably just kill kraska to gain the vig shot. Pere is because he'd probably just rolestop shaddow on n1. We can just lynch/cop/vig everyone else.

PEdit: it's 4-shot

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:17 pm

VOTE: leon I kinda wanna see what he flips

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:25 pm

Actually, it's really not too much power.

Bulletproof conditional 1-shot vig neighbor + neighbor + 4-shot nea + rs + 1-shot dayvig is only about the power of 4 solid PRs. This assumes leon is lyncher on town.

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:26 pm

Calm down, it's L-1 by my count

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:27 pm

Me, you, kagami. Who else is voting leon?

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:28 pm

missed nacho's vote. sorry

Infinity 324 · Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:33 pm

You shouldn't shoot nacho, I'll cop nacho. It may end up being relevant, but probably not

Infinity 324 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:16 pm

In post 2707, kraska77 wrote:
In post 2705, Wisdom wrote:65 in the scum PT explains that Leon and I were right on the mark when arguing that Nacho shot Leon because he had no other choice

It amuses me that Tammy and Kagami looked at me like I was an alien when I was arguing that, yet last day where I was the one with the doubts, I was the unreasonable one again
Why would be shoot a claimed bulletproof
I know that's what he actually did but while in game this didn't make any sense to consider

From nacho's perspective since leon was supposed to flavor cop him, his only shot was to hope leon was lying

Infinity 324 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:17 pm

This game in a nutshell: Town played well, and nacho is a god.

Infinity 324 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:25 pm

In post 2719, Wisdom wrote:eh, if it wasnt for peregrine you would have caught him N1

Doesn't mean he played any less well managing to avoid being lynched for so long, and doesn't mean the overall town performance was bad.

Infinity 324 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:38 pm

He stayed alive because he played to his outs. Sometimes being townread isn't what you need to do as scum.

Kagami is right, we really should've lynched leon before panther because that way we would've known xykon existed and we wouldn't have had to lynch panther

Infinity 324 · Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:04 pm

Nacho why didn't you mention your rule about not killing Tammy n1, that confused a lot of ppl

Infinity 324 · Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:21 am

Also magna, why didn't you post people's role pms on flip? I thought most theme mods did that

Infinity 324 · Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:19 am

I guess I don't feel like there's any reason to have confusion about roles when they're already flipped. I don't think you should give room for people having to discuss the wording of the role like they did in this game, it's better to just have the whole thing out in the open imo.

Infinity 324 · Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:15 am

In post 2735, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2734, Infinity 324 wrote:I guess I don't feel like there's any reason to have confusion about roles when they're already flipped. I don't think you should give room for people having to discuss the wording of the role like they did in this game, it's better to just have the whole thing out in the open imo.
I think in a Normal game, the role flip is fine.

If it happens in a theme game, I'm just thankful, because frankly I don't expect it. Themes have room for more mechanics and interactions that are non-standard, so getting a name that is something like
Felix, Town 2-shot Jailkeeper
is much better than
Felix, Town Android Repairman
.

Maybe it's a personal thing, I just find it annoying because I'm used to knowing exactly what everyone's role does after the flip. And I think more mods than not that I've played with do post the full role pm in themes.