Newbie 1777: Wedding In Vegas! [Game Over]

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Good evening!

It's a pleasure to be here.

UNVOTE:

Reading up!

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VOTE: no lynch
First day is always mislynch. Mafia would love that. Let's get to night so out invests can do there jobs.

*ping*

This doesn't sound like the town!srceenplay I remember.

Hello everyone. First game hope it's fun.
Now let's make sure I can figure out this vote thing.

VOTE: TOTO

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VOTE: no lynch
First day is always mislynch. Mafia would love that. Let's get to night so out invests can do there jobs.

Lynching is the only way to get to night without having to wait for 2 weeks

That is wrong. You can vote no lynch. Let the cop find the scum at night. That way we don't have to mislynch a town.

VOTE: nolynch

The other assumption is that you will be able to lynch scum without them getting information on a pr.

Scum will kill at night that is unavoidable. Mislynching is avoidable by
VOTE: no lynch

Are you ok with lynching a town? I'm not.

Newbs at the game, strategy, possibility that cop (if there is one) might just inv the right person. The reasons are endless

No Kill doesn't prevent a guilty on a cop check...

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Oops, just meant to reply to the last quote.

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I'm inclined to just assume we've got caught scum (you) in this bizarre turn of posts.

That's my take on it so far as well.

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Well I did.
Plus she posted since and ignored my vote and fact that I called her scum.

TBF, I'd have ignored it too if I was her because there's no meat on the bone.

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Hello everyone. Checking in.

Hello, third early townread.

This game gonna be easy peasy.

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If you're assuming LadyeAeaea + Drixx based on post 24 that's a longshot

A long shot that now two people seen independently?

I mean I have to admit I had my own thoughts about that but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Well I did.
Plus she posted since and ignored my vote and fact that I called her scum.

Voting LadyAwhatshername over post 24 is all kinds of terribad.

Now I just have to figure out if it's scum!terribad or town!terribad.

Ugh.

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Your threats are not appropriate. I feel like you are mad/angry that is who I'm voting.

Now you resort to this? Playing a victim? He's just stating the obvious seeing that you keep avoiding everyone's main question. How did you jump from no lynch to LadyA? That's all that everyone would like to know and you keep on avoiding the it. First you suddenly claim to be town hero and now Drixx is threatening you....what's next, people attacking you personally? This looks like grabbing for straws if you ask me....

Are you scum?

I think you might be scum.

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What will you have to go on the next day when you find out you lost the town hero?

Well, if you turn out to be scum - whooo hoodoo
If you turn out to be town - your sudden and random accusation could have some weight and there will be n list of new suspects based on votes and reactions towards you, thus, we will at least get some info

Eh. I'd rather find out he's town while he's still alive.

Saving mislynches, and all.

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Having some fresh opinions on Srceenplay would be great because right now I'm pretty sure everyone's just agreeing with wanting him gone. I'm probably also kinda guilty of this but I won't put him at L-1 yet.

Here's a fresh opinion:

I don't buy his derp!push as scum play. He seemed genuinely enthusiastic about catching a slip and he was obviously feeling validated when he saw that you were able to identify the basis of his scumread.

He's not a townread, but I'm not climbing on his wagon over that.

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On second thought however some good might come from this.
UNVOTE: Firescreamer
VOTE: Srceenplay you have some explaining to do and properly at that.
This is L-1. Hammer him without declaring intent and I will hunt you down mercilessly if he flips town.

Terrible vote.

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At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

You're pinging scum to me again.

Town points for anyone that sees what I see in this post. Drixx is disqualified due to insider info.

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Wheeee Firescreamer said something

I said at the beginning of my last post that I really couldn't do much yesterday. Usually i'll try to very clearly signpost when i'm going to be around if i'm gone for a day.

very unlikely to find better lynch than me,in 12 days time? Common give yourself and town more credit than that.

I am a VT.

I have made actions and points to see how people react. If anyone thinks they found scum this fast they don't understand the game and implying it's that easy is a misrep of the game.

"I was only pretending to be scummy, how could you think the person doing this was scum"

That's a fair interpretation.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from Slayer's Gambit until you know what you're doing.

Unvote srceenplay and give me time to finish catching up, because I'm fairly certain I've caught scum thanks to srceenplay's ill-executed gambit.

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Are you disagreeing that there is a direct disincentive to lynch the IC?

I am.

Most any questions should be able to be answered d1.

By the time you have your first lynch under your belt, you understand the basics of how to play, and that's all the IC is obligated to provide.

Any info gained from the IC on following days may be a

bonus

, but players are not penalized if they kill the slot (unless they quicklynch on d1, of course).

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I have a FOS on MMM and Jenlew

Cool.

Me too. More Jen than MMM, though.

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Agree
If sensfan wishes to play with that intent, we should not put anyone at L-1 without intent.

With that said I have FOS on Sensfan.

He's not scum, he's misguided town.

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Arguing about the concept isn't relevant. The idea that you're using my philosophy to justify a paradigm where people can be even *more* likely to avoid placing a vote they don't want to is very much worth discussing, though. And it's not like you can realistically have people act like they're at L-1 just because they're at L-2 and the Sens boogeyman is out there and might maybe potentially hammer them.

This response is disgusting. This isn't a fast-paced game. You take your time, analyze your associates and go from there.


I'd be willing to lynch Sens of Drixx today, and for now VOTE: SensFan

Yeaaaaa...NO.

Not agreeing with someone's theory doesn't make them scum.

Terrible vote is terrible.

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To much time has been spent on this. It is not right and it is wrong. It goes against good play style and meta. It's ok if you want to play that way, try it out , test it whatever. It should not be done in a newbie game, go try it in a normal game.

If that's the way they choose to play fine. As a group we can work around that play style.
It seems they are arguing a play style. Play style can be nai.
Move on until something scummy happens.

#goodposting

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I admit to hypocrisy here because I have a tendency of not giving good explanations either though <.<

This does make me doubt my scum lean on MMM because scum tends not to undermine themselves whereas (ime) town are generally more honest about flaws in their self-assessments.

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The legitimate point that a game that has been going on for less than four days has been going on for six?

Do you seriously think scum is going to base a push on something that can be disproven in thirty seconds?

Town makes mistakes. Shit happens. Obsession over accuracy comes more from a scum mindset because they have something to prove.

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So either way bad? Thanks.

I can vote you instead if you want

/s

Ew.

Brandishing your vote as a weapon to punitively threaten (even couched in sarcasm) gives me scum feels.

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Ingeel, what makes you so sure that he's NewbTown instead of NewbScum? Secondly, your vote is on me;

obviously you disagree with my reads but do you not think they're sincere?

I think they're sincere

but they have no town motivated push behind them(at least for Srceen's case).

His play feels genuine to me, and lots of town motivation. I don't see newb scum immediately gunning for NL and saying "let invests handle it"

If anything, and sorry for reading into crumbs or what not, it's a townslip for him being TI(which he claimed against as VT which is believable). However, knowing it might have been risky to claim TI he claimed cit. I believe he's cit in the end but if anything his ISO is pure town. And Doctor, if you're a thing, please heal Srceen

DING DING DING DING!

We have a winner, folks!

Ingeel does NOT truly believe SensFan is scum because

scum cannot have sincere scumreads

!

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At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

You're pinging scum to me again.

Town points for anyone that sees what I see in this post. Drixx is disqualified due to insider info.

I assume the fact she's just narrowing down suspects based on votes, but I feel like you see more than that for some reason.

Cold.

Ice cold.

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{Drixx, srceenplay}
{SensFan, MMM}
{Firescreamer, LadyeAeaea}
{JenLew}
{Ingeel}

VOTE: Ingeel

I will now accept questions.

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At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

You're pinging scum to me again.

Town points for anyone that sees what I see in this post. Drixx is disqualified due to insider info.

I assume the fact she's just narrowing down suspects based on votes, but I feel like you see more than that for some reason.

Think procedurally.

Rhetorical Scenario:

You're town. You have a scumread. You are speculating on what happens after the lynch.

What is your first assumption as to the player's alignment?

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At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

You're pinging scum to me again.

Town points for anyone that sees what I see in this post. Drixx is disqualified due to insider info.

I assume the fact she's just narrowing down suspects based on votes, but I feel like you see more than that for some reason.

Think procedurally.

Rhetorical Scenario:

You're town. You have a scumread. You are speculating on what happens after the lynch.

What is your first assumption as to the player's alignment?

You'll probably first think they're scum.

PRECISELY.

What was the alignment JenLew reached for first?

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On second thought however some good might come from this.
UNVOTE: Firescreamer
VOTE: Srceenplay you have some explaining to do and properly at that.
This is L-1. Hammer him without declaring intent and I will hunt you down mercilessly if he flips town.

At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

She mentions town first. And the a town flip wouldn't be that helpful.

Do you see my point, yet?

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So let me see...
I'm town. I vote my SR. They get to L-1. I make theories based on them being scum.
But JenLew first made a theory based on him being town.
Meaning she's scum?

...

I'd like to say yes but I don't think so.

You do, but you don't seem to realize the significance of her assumption.

Scum approach the game different from town, and naturally have a different perspective.

Anomalies to natural town thought processes are indicative of a scum mindset.

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If that was all I had on JenLew, it wouldn't be explicitly damning.

But it's not.

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But the IC could also be maf so keeping him around just because he could be useful could also earn a victory for the scum

Scum often shows early interest in or attempts to mislynch the IC to save a bullet for PR hunting.

VOTE: Meduna seeing as he's not going to play anyways and might as well get him out of the way

Another frequent newbscum move, because:

1) Low risk of getting into a 1v1 with an empty slot.
2) PL's on lurkers provide no information to town.

Why would you not make a night kill? Wouldn't you want as many town dead as fast as possible?

And this question could be asked the other way around as well. Why would you not make a lynch? Wouldn't you want as many scum lynched as fast as possible?

She doesn't seem to identify with the fact that town is the uninformed majority.

When scum NK, they KNOW they're hitting town. Town doesn't KNOW they're hitting scum.

Just follow my lead and vote with me. You will be confirmed town when we lynch this scum together.

One thing I do know for sure about the game is trust no one, espessially players more experienced than you

Sowing distrust.

Town HAS to work together if we're going to root out the scum.

Your threats are not appropriate. I feel like you are mad/angry that is who I'm voting.

Now you resort to this? Playing a victim? He's just stating the obvious seeing that you keep avoiding everyone's main question. How did you jump from no lynch to LadyA? That's all that everyone would like to know and you keep on avoiding the it. First you suddenly claim to be town hero and now Drixx is threatening you....what's next, people attacking you personally? This looks like grabbing for straws if you ask me....

Instigation. This post has no probative value. The only real questions in it are echoes of other players. Her original content in that post is thinly veiled jabs.

(SE) is not noons. You do make a few interesting points thou. But the only way I see his play is either scum or stupid. But I'm rather going with scum seeing that stupid is a noobs MO which he most definitely is not.

She admits to the possibility that srceenplay may be playing suboptimally as town, but shows no desire whatsoever to rule that possibility out before running the risk of lynching town.

I'm not grasping at straws to keep the wagon going, I never created one. If anyone else decided to vote the way I do it's because they saw the same stuff I did. Of course, all of us could be wrong, but I'm hoping we're not.

She's removing herself from the responsibility of a srceenplay town flip in this post.

Never mind the fact she was actively pushing him as scum, if he flips town, "all of us were wrong" would be her defense.

Anyone who played this game before knows D1 is just random voting, prodding and guess work until someone peaks interest. Unfortunately in this game that was you.

Again, waiving responsibility for the consequences of her vote. And who tells their scumread, "unfortunately, it's you"???

Wagons are formed to get the game going and to get info in D2 it's not necessarily scum doing the sheeping as you call it.

She's not looking for Scum. Her motive is to find an acceptable lynch.

In my opinion don't go along with a train of thought just because everyone else is. It's ok for opinions to differ that's what makes this game interesting. I voted for srceenplay because that's what felt right the way I read his posts. If you didn't agree with that then why vote for him and then be afraid that someone's going to hammer. This makes no sense to me, but to be fair

some things that Ingeel are saying are making some sense, almost too much, which is kind of confusing me at this stage.

Why would this be a matter of concern for town?

Town

strives

to make sense of things and each other. It's those we

can't

make sense of that we lynch.

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Any one, or even two, of these things are not bad in and of themselves... but when they're all added up, it's a compelling scum case.

In fact, I think I'd rather lynch JenLew over Ingeel today.

VOTE: JenLew

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I'm kind of disappointed in myself for how much I missed without even noticing because I was so focused on the accusations to Srceenplay.
I like your case. I'm particularly intrigued by her saying that she never started a wagon when in fact that's what she did the entire time, which seems like an outright lie to me.
VOTE: JenLew

If you like my Scum case on JenLew, why didn't you find it strange that I called her out for trying to PL the player I'm theorizing as her buddy?

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It doesn't seem strange to me because scum shouldn't have any problem with voting their buddy in RVS. They might even refer back to it later and say "look at me I'm so townie I was the first to vote this scum".

That's true enough.

When I made the case, it wasn't registering to me that Meduna was Igreel and I was reading her vote on that slot as a sincere attempt to kill it.

Granted, lurker lynches don't happen on d1, and certainly not straight out of rvs... but I wouldn't expect JenLew to be aware of that.

Either way, we're good.

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This would even be in line with JenLew splitting town and scum by their votes and today's flip.

Remind me where this happened, please? I think I missed something.

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On second thought however some good might come from this.
UNVOTE: Firescreamer
VOTE: Srceenplay you have some explaining to do and properly at that.
This is L-1. Hammer him without declaring intent and I will hunt you down mercilessly if he flips town.

At least if he flips town there would be 5 suspects to check out. If he flips scum there's about 2 who sort of sided with him. Which ever way he flips it will narrow down the search

You seem to be forgetful, we discussed this like an hour ago lol.

Not forgetful so much as focused.

All I was concentrating on was making my point.

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And Firescreamer becomes a blip on my radar.

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Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

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Show thine working. And/or let me finish my reads on everyone.

When I'm ready to decorate my living room with your intestines, you'll see plenty of my work.

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While we were distracted with Screens gambit and Sens hammering Grey comes in and provides a very convincing case for JenLaw.

Not that you asked, but I'll provide a little insight into my own scum game.

Whenever I'm Scum, replacements tend to have a short lifespan because they enter the game with a fresh perspective and aren't bogged down by the existing narrative.

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I am intrigued.

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Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

Fake scumhunting how? How does it differentiate from real scumhunting? I was away most of yesterday and want to come in and give my thoughts on everyone in the game. My reasoning being as a town player I have the utmost incentive to put what I think down as clearly as possible to get feedback on it. If I were scum this cements me in place and I can't be nearly as opportunistic as i've commited to how I feel about someone and can't radically change that without showing my working

Post 303 shows that your analysis is superficial and your intent to gamesolve is a farce.

Put on your detective hat and figure out why, and I just might be swayed into writing it off.

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Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

Fake scumhunting how? How does it differentiate from real scumhunting? I was away most of yesterday and want to come in and give my thoughts on everyone in the game. My reasoning being as a town player I have the utmost incentive to put what I think down as clearly as possible to get feedback on it. If I were scum this cements me in place and I can't be nearly as opportunistic as i've commited to how I feel about someone and can't radically change that without showing my working

Post 303 shows that your analysis is superficial and your intent to gamesolve is a farce.

Put on your detective hat and figure out why, and I just might be swayed into writing it off.

I honestly don't understand. Epid has like 7 posts. Like 4 of them substantive and those are regarding the Screenwagon wherein everyone at that point, town or scum, would have assessed screenplay as scum or trolly. I really don't feel like there is much to say on that ISO.

Oh. I think I might have said too much, not too little? Is that it? I pulled out some things that were more of a distraction than anything to talk about I guess. I just didn't want to post nothing at all for the guy.

BZZZZZT!

I'm sorry, but that is not the correct answer.

Details will be provided in twilight, so don't you worry.

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I'm so pumped.

This game is awesome.

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Page

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Top!

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FireScreamer, you should read 253 sometime.

Just for shiggles.

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Updated reads:

{Drixx, srceenplay}
{SensFan, MMM}
{LadyeAeaea}
{Ingeel, FireScreamer}
{JenLew}

Once I turn one of those leans into a full on scumread, I'll be a happy camper.

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Spoiler:

Ingeel replaces Meduna immediately. Please welcome them!

Vc when I get home!

Catching up to what the thread is looking like currently.

Hiya folks. This is likely going to be my only post today but i'll make up for it tomorrow. Just super busy today. A couple of questions since we are all coming from different places

1. How much experience have you had with mafia before this game? Is this just your first game on this site or your first game?
2. Do you feel you have specific playstyle ticks that we should be aware of before hand? Obviously if you are super new this shouldn't apply
3. What are you hoping to get out of this game?

Oh and lets get our RVS on

VOTE: SensFan because the IC is always right. #AppealtoAuthority

1)I've played on a separate forum for a bit over a year now. What forum that is wish not disclose because I'd rather not get constant reminders from people on that forum games here are up.
2)I don't like making long posts. You could say I like getting to the point.
3)See whether or not I like this site because I've been looking for a second site.

VOTE: no lynch
First day is always mislynch. Mafia would love that. Let's get to night so out invests can do there jobs.

Is this your first game? Sorry if I missed this.

In my mind a NL vote is exactly the same as not voting at all.

It's never ok to lose a member on your side but a lynch will give us more info than doing nothing. You also have no guarantees that scum will make a night kill. They could also just not do anything to wait and see what happens

I agree with this.

Fine then. I think you have better understanding than me MMM.

The obvious scum is

VOTE: LadyeAeaea
I was going to let the cop investigate it first but it's obvious enough to just vote her and get her gone.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMiYklHvjk[/youtube]
If I recall correctly they hadn't or if they had posted only once or twice. The push that went off it I can see but the subsequent votes came on too fast for what is likely an egotistical maniac.(at this time)

VOTE: Screenplay

Something's just off about your reasoning.

I found one scum for us. Vote her up.
:Mic Drop:
I'm out.

And then the sudden reversal to this.

So the way I see it, one of two things is going on here.

1.) You realized the mistake of your no lynch push and jumped to this to try and get the attention off of that.
2.) You're scum and are making one heck of a gambit.

This only plays out a couple of ways. Since you have given no actual reasoning to believe she is scum, it logically follows you don't have any. Please do correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

So we could lynch you, and if you flip scum we can reasonably assume that either she's town or it was a gambit. It would be a pretty big stretch for it to be a gambit, but possible. If we lynch you and you flip town, we learn nothing whatsoever. If we lynch her and she flips town, then you go tomorrow, and if you're town that means you put us into 5 man LYLO with this stunt (presuming no kills are stopped).

I'm inclined to just assume we've got caught scum (you) in this bizarre turn of posts.

Please explain why and how you have "found one scum for us". If your explanation and reasoning make no sense, be prepared to defend yourself, because I can see absolutely zero town motive in your play so far, but lots and lots of potential scum motives.

I honestly don't like the ending parts of this entire post, but this in particular. I'm honestly leaning he's a VI at this point. Not too found of Drixx currently.

There has been no explanation whatsoever. You are being intentionally obtuse. At this point, I am going to just assume that you are trolling, and you're going to find a hostile audience to that on this site.

VOTE: Srceenplay

Sort of a "scapegoat" assuming Drixx is scum and he flips town so nobody can really be mad at him. Thought's here but can verbalize it.

very unlikely to find better lynch than me,in 12 days time? Common give yourself and town more credit than that.

I am a VT.

I have made actions and points to see how people react. If anyone thinks they found scum this fast they don't understand the game and implying it's that easy is a misrep of the game.

This is as almost bad as some dude on another forum. Not sure if they come here but they were always town. And this play definitely feels town.

While I disagree with SensFan I do not think this is a scumtell. This seems to be entirely playstyle based and is a nulltell. I suggest we now post intent to L-1 a wagon that Sen is not part of to play around it. Just be mindful about the guy and he can't actually do anything with his hammerhappy approach.

Not doing yourself any favors.

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Do you really think that was a mistake that scum more often than town makes?

Yes, actually.

Ingeel was in the Meduna slot a day before I replaced Epid.

Scum doesn't have to read, because they have the answers that town is looking for.

It just so happens, not reading the thread has the side effect of making one blind to changes in the game state.

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A little competition is good for the soul.

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Need a vote count and then I will vote Jen.

2/5

Me and MMM.

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Grey replaced in my first newbie game. His catch ups are awesome. Something to strive for.

Thanks, btw.

It's actually more of a challenge to catch up without implicating my partner as scum because I spend so much time facepalming and figuring out how I can dance around it, lol.

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As far as I'm concerned, JenLew is the only option for today.

Ingeel/FireScreamer is a decision for tomorrow. Leaning Ingeel ATM, but the day is yet young.

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Also I feel a false dichotomy is a pretty scummy thing to present to the town.

Tomorrow is one of you or Ingeel.

Am I scum?

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I too like casting shade.

I genuinely have no handle on what this means at all.

I read that as one scum telling another to lay off or he'll drive his own bus.

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Hi

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Damn!

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It's nice to see a read I can give with that I haven't already posted myself.

I'm feeling the warm fuzzies!

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It's nice to see a read I can vibe with that I haven't already posted myself.

I'm feeling the warm fuzzies!

Edit.

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Right answer.

And you're climbing in my reads again.

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Mod Notes - MY Pagetop! -Grey- replaced Epid! Happy Friday!

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Right answer.

And you're climbing in my reads again.

Your constant positive/negative reinforcement to reads others make gives me the willies. If I actively had other things that scumread you i'd be a lot more worried about it being manipulation. As it stands I think its just your way and I can't exactly hang you for being clear on your opinion of things, if maybe a bit intentionally vague on the reasoning.

I guess I like to show all my working and you like to show almost nothing in order to trip people up and its that difference I am feeling.

I'm certainly vague on purpose. Can't deny that.

When I decide it's time for someone to die, I like to think my intentions are clear, though.

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I doubt really think it would be productive to do reads on srceenplay and Drixx.

Vagary is a powerful tool. Don't underestimate it.

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I don't really think it would be productive to do reads on srceenplay and Drixx.

Vagary is a powerful tool. Don't underestimate it.

Edit

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I will give intent to put her at L-2.
Will wait to see if she responds.

She's already L-2.

Going to guess you meant intent to L-1.

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Gonna post my reads now since wynaut

Town
Srceenplay
SensFan
Grey
Drixx [Null-point]
LadyeAeaea/Firescreamer
Ingeel
Jen
Scum

So, the guy that walked you through his thought processes in pain staking detail to explain how Jen is scum is barely above null?

Interesting.

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I meant I'm trying to work around sensfan shit play.

I know what you meant, that's why it's intent to L-1 instead of intent to hammer.

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Please don't L-1 JenLew until everyone has had a chance to weigh in on the wagon.

Thanks.

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Nah.

SensFan isn't the lynch for today.

There's no scum motivation in deliberately pissing off the entire town with a controversial playstyle, and 227 doesn't come within light-years of the scumminess JenLew has done throughout the thread.

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And don't think your attempt to build a counterwagon using one of my townreads went unnoticed.

[-Grey-]

i'll re-read JenLew tonight but I don't think you can dismiss his actions on the basis of the fact that he pissed off the town by his playstyle... and even beyond his playstyle:

tunneling on srceen w/ no justification or independent thought but *pretending* he had some, trying to influence and force a quick hammer without being blamed for it, appealing to sincerity as a defense all are really alarming, and then totally disappearing after that is scummy af

he literally slapped a "no town motivation" on srceen's actions without explaining why and then just went along with it.

All that is 100%, undeniably true.

And yet, it still doesn't change the fact he's town.

Your entire case is founded on superficial appearances. There is zero depth that shows actual scum motives.

Because there are none. I looked.

In contrast, my case on JenLew details exactly how her entire approach to this game is coming from a scum perspective.

[-Grey-]

Not liking or agreeing with something doesn't make it scummy.

If anything, his blatant disregard for his appearances lends itself to a town perspective, because scum can't afford to be so blase about popular opinion.

[-Grey-]

I'm absolutely being incredibly dismissive of your case.

[-Grey-]

3. I want to catch scum and show you all how smart I am ~~

While this is an admirable goal, you should use this opportunity to learn how.

Anybody can point at something that looks bad and say "Ew that looks bad'.

Smart is looking beyond the what and seeking why. Smart is being empathetic towards others instead of projecting one's own paradigm onto them.

Smart is taking fair measure of a player instead of looking for reasons to call them scum.

[-Grey-]

Drixx, as long as I'm still alive, I'm not going to stop pushing my scumreads.

Because we both know that when Jen flips scum, I die next. So I'm not entertaining ideas that go completely against my understanding of the game state when my time in this game is limited.

[-Grey-]

Drixx, as long as I'm still alive, I'm not going to stop pushing my scumreads.

Because we both know that when Jen flips scum, I die next. So I'm not entertaining ideas that go completely against my understanding of the game state when my time in this game is limited.

So let's assume that happens. Why do you think I'm asking you to look at something where I don't necessarily agree with you?

Why do you assume that I already haven't?

[-Grey-]

Ingeel is far more likely to be scum based on post 247 alone than Sens is for all his posts combined.

[-Grey-]

Well if there's nothing you wish to counter in regards to my argument aside from that one post which doesn't put a dent in my case against you even if I did concede your point, then...

Eat rope.

[-Grey-]

No townreads either.

[-Grey-]

@Drixx: I've got my collar for today. If my research tonight acquits Ingeel, I will hear you tomorrow on the matter of SensFan.

[-Grey-]

@Drixx: I've got my collar for today. If my research tonight acquits Ingeel, I will hear you tomorrow on the matter of SensFan.

I don't see the incentive to do what you just did

I always have a reason for what I do.

[-Grey-]

There's a case against Ingeel?

Cool. Who made it and where is it?

[-Grey-]

Nah. I'm in no rush.

He's on my to-do list.

[-Grey-]

I am ok with voting.
I am also ok with people continuing to talk.

I'm done with today, personally.

Y'all do what y'all do.

JenLew's reaction to my wagon was absolutely horrific and I'm happy with setting her swing.

[-Grey-]

And yes, I know Grey is going to dismiss this statement immediately cause from what I've read so far that's his thing, his way or know way.

This is a total crock of shit, btw. I worked through my scumread on Fire and began townreading him.

JenLew didn't even try to reach out to me. She reacted like caught scum, so I'm fine with treating her like caught scum.

[-Grey-]

I think your conclusion on Drixx is contradictory to conclusions you made during your conclusion on Drixx.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, you know.

That read can always be reviewed for accuracy later. He's not a lynch option today, so there is no rush.

[-Grey-]

Only a lot.

[-Grey-]

It's all unnecessary bickering, anyway.

[-Grey-]

It's all unnecessary bickering, anyway.

Why? I'd ballpark Jen as around 80% likely to flip scum (which is pretty great for a D1 lynch). But there's still 100% another scum around. While we are waiting for people to hammer its not unreasonable that we try and find them.

The last Scum is between two players, and neither of those players are active ATM.

[-Grey-]

You sure?

Ask me d2.

[-Grey-]

You sure?

Ask me d2.

I was checking the inactive part.

Still holds.

If I had been wrong, you'd have had to ask me d2.

[-Grey-]

Drixx never really gave an opinion on Jen?

He implied his blessing earlier.

[-Grey-]

Put a pin in Jen, as I'm pretty sure you're going to get your way on that.

[-Grey-]

Or indifferent

Shh, I'm selling my case here.

[-Grey-]

I don't think it benefits Scum to inject a game with that much activity/discussion.

TBF, I'm a prolific poster regardless of alignment.

[-Grey-]

Mental note to revisit 449 d2.

[-Grey-]

I don't think it benefits Scum to inject a game with that much activity/discussion.

TBF, I'm a prolific poster regardless of alignment.

I second that. He did this as scum in my newbie and won.

Your newbie is actually one of my low postcount games.

[-Grey-]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70094

There's a high postcount scum game.

[-Grey-]

Plenty of time for us to dance d2, Ingeel.

Jen is the flavor of the day.

[-Grey-]

The case on Jen is shockingly convincing. I'll need to reread it later as I just skimmed through the like 7 pages from today.

Grey seems pretty solid to me so far. I don't think it benefits Scum to inject a game with that much activity/discussion.

That's L-1 on Jen I think? Should probably be something that's announced when you make a vote.

You are right about the L-1. I gave intent earlier and announced that we were going to see if you quick hammer.

Your continued insistence that I'm some quickhammer Boogeymonster is cute, but rapidly starting to just piss me off. If that's not the desired effect, I would suggest you stop. That goes for LA and anyone else, too.

I bet you won't do it.

[-Grey-]

Plenty of time for us to dance d2, Ingeel.

Jen is the flavor of the day.

Don't dodge me

[-Grey-]

Lady's posts today didn't strike me as the type of posts I'm interested in seeing/reading, though I'm biased. Was there anything worthwhile in there that I skimmed over?

She just got a little miffed that I shot down her scumread on you.

[-Grey-]

Why does that not surprise me?

[-Grey-]

I'm trolling, bro.

[-Grey-]

Lmao

[-Grey-]

Lmao

[-Grey-]

He was asking me about you. Hence I answered "I believe he(referring to you) is sincere"

Lmao no he wasn't.

And it's bloody obvious he wasn't.

[-Grey-]

Secondly, your vote is on me; obviously you disagree with

my reads

but do you not think they're sincere?

[-Grey-]

I find it interesting that I pointed out the sincerity thing in 251 and Ingeel didn't object to that at the time.

Gotta color it in for maximum effect.

[-Grey-]

maybe we could get something substantial out of you for once

Funny, I've gotten plenty of substance out of his posts.

Know who comes across to me as empty?

You.

What does your ISO consist of?

IC spec
LAMIST
IC spec
Push on Srceenplay
LAMIST
IC spec
LAMIST
Zomgcounterwagon on Sen right after I started running up Jen

Y'know, generally speaking.

Not drawn to scale, and all.

I mean, I'll break it down nice and pretty if you're stupid enough to leave me alive until d2, but even if I don't make it, Drixx will know to take a closer look at you now and you can't kill us both in one night.

[-Grey-]

Ingeel, are you ESL?

No judgment if you are, just trying to comprehend where the trouble might be coming in.

[-Grey-]

I'm kicking names and taking ass.

[-Grey-]

Consider this formal notice I may hammer in the morning, depending on how much of substance happens overnight.

What's with this intent to hammer garbage after all the drama about not giving any?

SHENANIGANS!

[-Grey-]

When in Rome.

True. True.

[-Grey-]

{Srceen}
{MMM, Lady}
{Drixx(leaning scum}
{Fire, Jen, Grey}
(Sens}

Nice reads.

Apparently scum lynches scum in the universe Ingeel comes from.

[-Grey-]

Pretty sure last scum is one of {Ingeel, Lady A}

[-Grey-]

Ingeel's absence from the lynch of one of his scumreads when his pet scumread clearly wasn't an option is noted.

[-Grey-]

Outside shot at Drixx, because wtf man at not voting at all after the Srceenplay push flopped?

[-Grey-]

Pretty sure last scum is one of {Ingeel, Lady A}

Same thoughts here. Though I'd reassess LA if Jen actually flips town.

Why?

[-Grey-]

Lady A's push on Sens is null in a vacuum. The timing was shady, yes, but what is really bad is her ISO.

[-Grey-]

Jen is one of the people who jumped on srceen for scum reading me without justification. I remember being weary about that

I mean, what kind of bullshit is this, for example?

She points out a pro-town play by Jen and says it made her suspicious?

For somebody that wants to prove how smart she is, that's just plain dumb.

[-Grey-]

In other news, if Jen DOES flip town, I will suddenly be immensely interested in MMM.

If she's scum, he's not really a concern to me.

[-Grey-]

In other news, if Jen DOES flip town, I will suddenly be immensely interested in MMM.

If she's scum, he's not really a concern to me.

Jen is flipping scum.

Interesting. Weren't you

just

considering the possibility of a Jen town flip?

Pretty sure last scum is one of {Ingeel, Lady A}

Same thoughts here. Though I'd reassess LA if Jen actually flips town.

Why, yes.

Yes, I believe you were.

Why the sudden conviction?

[-Grey-]

If Jen flips town, my scumteam theory is MMM/Lady A at this point.

His attempt to clear her on a Jen town flip suggests he knew the outcome and wanted to use it to his advantage.

[-Grey-]

In other news, if Jen DOES flip town, I will suddenly be immensely interested in MMM.

If she's scum, he's not really a concern to me.

Jen is flipping scum.

Trying to rule yourself out as scum I see. Cause if you were scum you would know I'll flip town. Very good comment to make

If you flip green, MMM needs to die.

If you're trolling, gj.

[-Grey-]

Hammer and be done with it. At least after I flip town you'll see there might have been something more in my statement about looking at Grey more closely than "OMGYS" as FS called it earlier.

What happened to this?

Lololol

That's a classic scum tactic. "Wah, but you're supposed to suspect HIM!"

[-Grey-]

Hammer and be done with it. At least after I flip town you'll see there might have been something more in my statement about looking at Grey more closely than "OMGYS" as FS called it earlier.

What happened to this?

I'm calling them as I see them. I'm out already so I don't need to be worried about raising suspision.

Being worried about raising suspicion... raises suspicion.

[-Grey-]

Also if you're town I'm gonna be disappointed at your lack of defense.

Yeah, I really have to agree with this.

Jen has no reason to think I wasn't capable of changing my read on her after Fire and I talked things out.

[-Grey-]

If she flips Mafia RB and we have a Doc and Cop we already won anyway.
I'm probably optimistic here though.

If she flips RB, cop needs to claim and out results d2 and Doc needs to keep their mouth shut and work in the background.

[-Grey-]

Hammer and be done with it. At least after I flip town you'll see there might have been something more in my statement about looking at Grey more closely than "OMGYS" as FS called it earlier.

What happened to this?

I'm calling them as I see them. I'm out already so I don't need to be worried about raising suspision.

Being worried about raising suspicion... raises suspicion.

Oh really? Look what my absolutely normal posts (according to me) did to me

Look, it's a bit late to be reaching out to me now.

Where was this interest in engaging me when it would have mattered?

[-Grey-]

Spoiler: Proof JenLew is Full of Shit

And Firescreamer becomes a blip on my radar.

Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

Show thine working. And/or let me finish my reads on everyone.

When I'm ready to decorate my living room with your intestines, you'll see plenty of my work.

Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

Fake scumhunting how? How does it differentiate from real scumhunting? I was away most of yesterday and want to come in and give my thoughts on everyone in the game. My reasoning being as a town player I have the utmost incentive to put what I think down as clearly as possible to get feedback on it. If I were scum this cements me in place and I can't be nearly as opportunistic as i've commited to how I feel about someone and can't radically change that without showing my working

Post 303 shows that your analysis is superficial and your intent to gamesolve is a farce.

Put on your detective hat and figure out why, and I just might be swayed into writing it off.

Fire pinging with the fake scumhunting.

Fake scumhunting how? How does it differentiate from real scumhunting? I was away most of yesterday and want to come in and give my thoughts on everyone in the game. My reasoning being as a town player I have the utmost incentive to put what I think down as clearly as possible to get feedback on it. If I were scum this cements me in place and I can't be nearly as opportunistic as i've commited to how I feel about someone and can't radically change that without showing my working

Post 303 shows that your analysis is superficial and your intent to gamesolve is a farce.

Put on your detective hat and figure out why, and I just might be swayed into writing it off.

I honestly don't understand. Epid has like 7 posts. Like 4 of them substantive and those are regarding the Screenwagon wherein everyone at that point, town or scum, would have assessed screenplay as scum or trolly. I really don't feel like there is much to say on that ISO.

Oh. I think I might have said too much, not too little? Is that it? I pulled out some things that were more of a distraction than anything to talk about I guess. I just didn't want to post nothing at all for the guy.

BZZZZZT!

I'm sorry, but that is not the correct answer.

Details will be provided in twilight, so don't you worry.

Updated reads:

{Drixx, srceenplay}
{SensFan, MMM}
{LadyeAeaea}
{Ingeel, FireScreamer}
{JenLew}

Once I turn one of those leans into a full on scumread, I'll be a happy camper.

Ingeel replaces Meduna immediately. Please welcome them!

Vc when I get home!

Catching up to what the thread is looking like currently.

Hiya folks. This is likely going to be my only post today but i'll make up for it tomorrow. Just super busy today. A couple of questions since we are all coming from different places

1. How much experience have you had with mafia before this game? Is this just your first game on this site or your first game?
2. Do you feel you have specific playstyle ticks that we should be aware of before hand? Obviously if you are super new this shouldn't apply
3. What are you hoping to get out of this game?

Oh and lets get our RVS on

VOTE: SensFan because the IC is always right. #AppealtoAuthority

1)I've played on a separate forum for a bit over a year now. What forum that is wish not disclose because I'd rather not get constant reminders from people on that forum games here are up.
2)I don't like making long posts. You could say I like getting to the point.
3)See whether or not I like this site because I've been looking for a second site.

VOTE: no lynch
First day is always mislynch. Mafia would love that. Let's get to night so out invests can do there jobs.

Is this your first game? Sorry if I missed this.

In my mind a NL vote is exactly the same as not voting at all.

It's never ok to lose a member on your side but a lynch will give us more info than doing nothing. You also have no guarantees that scum will make a night kill. They could also just not do anything to wait and see what happens

I agree with this.

Fine then. I think you have better understanding than me MMM.

The obvious scum is

VOTE: LadyeAeaea
I was going to let the cop investigate it first but it's obvious enough to just vote her and get her gone.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMiYklHvjk[/youtube]
If I recall correctly they hadn't or if they had posted only once or twice. The push that went off it I can see but the subsequent votes came on too fast for what is likely an egotistical maniac.(at this time)

VOTE: Screenplay

Something's just off about your reasoning.

I found one scum for us. Vote her up.
:Mic Drop:
I'm out.

And then the sudden reversal to this.

So the way I see it, one of two things is going on here.

1.) You realized the mistake of your no lynch push and jumped to this to try and get the attention off of that.
2.) You're scum and are making one heck of a gambit.

This only plays out a couple of ways. Since you have given no actual reasoning to believe she is scum, it logically follows you don't have any. Please do correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

So we could lynch you, and if you flip scum we can reasonably assume that either she's town or it was a gambit. It would be a pretty big stretch for it to be a gambit, but possible. If we lynch you and you flip town, we learn nothing whatsoever. If we lynch her and she flips town, then you go tomorrow, and if you're town that means you put us into 5 man LYLO with this stunt (presuming no kills are stopped).

I'm inclined to just assume we've got caught scum (you) in this bizarre turn of posts.

Please explain why and how you have "found one scum for us". If your explanation and reasoning make no sense, be prepared to defend yourself, because I can see absolutely zero town motive in your play so far, but lots and lots of potential scum motives.

I honestly don't like the ending parts of this entire post, but this in particular. I'm honestly leaning he's a VI at this point. Not too found of Drixx currently.

There has been no explanation whatsoever. You are being intentionally obtuse. At this point, I am going to just assume that you are trolling, and you're going to find a hostile audience to that on this site.

VOTE: Srceenplay

Sort of a "scapegoat" assuming Drixx is scum and he flips town so nobody can really be mad at him. Thought's here but can verbalize it.

very unlikely to find better lynch than me,in 12 days time? Common give yourself and town more credit than that.

I am a VT.

I have made actions and points to see how people react. If anyone thinks they found scum this fast they don't understand the game and implying it's that easy is a misrep of the game.

This is as almost bad as some dude on another forum. Not sure if they come here but they were always town. And this play definitely feels town.

While I disagree with SensFan I do not think this is a scumtell. This seems to be entirely playstyle based and is a nulltell. I suggest we now post intent to L-1 a wagon that Sen is not part of to play around it. Just be mindful about the guy and he can't actually do anything with his hammerhappy approach.

Not doing yourself any favors.

Do you really think that was a mistake that scum more often than town makes?

Yes, actually.

Ingeel was in the Meduna slot a day before I replaced Epid.

Scum doesn't have to read, because they have the answers that town is looking for.

It just so happens, not reading the thread has the side effect of making one blind to changes in the game state.

As far as I'm concerned, JenLew is the only option for today.

Ingeel/FireScreamer is a decision for tomorrow. Leaning Ingeel ATM, but the day is yet young.

It's nice to see a read I can vibe with that I haven't already posted myself.

I'm feeling the warm fuzzies!

Edit.

Right answer.

And you're climbing in my reads again.

[-Grey-]

You have no excuses for not trying to engage me when I flipped my read on FireScreamer after he towned the fuck up.

I refuse to be your scapegoat for shitting the bed regardless of alignment.

[-Grey-]

Wow! You already got my lynch. So why not just get over it right about now and move on

Because I refuse to let you pawn off your bad play as somehow being my fault when there is direct evidence that what you are claiming is blatantly false.

[-Grey-]

Interesting.

[-Grey-]

Vote Count 1.10

[0]MMM -
[0]Firescreamer -
[0]Ingeel -
[0]-Grey- -

[LYNCH]

[5]JenLew - -Grey-, MMM, Firescreamer, Srceenplay, SensFan
[0]LadyeAeaea -
[2]SensFan - Ingeel, LadyeAeaea
[0]Srceenplay -
[0]Drixx -

[2]Not Voting - Drixx, JenLew


With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch!

Mod Notes - Good Morning!

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-02-27 22:55:55).

The lynch could have easily got to around a hammering stage without scum involvement and then once it was Jen threw herself on her sword in bizarre fashion.


{Grey}
{Drixx}


{Sens}


{MMM, Lady}

{Ingeel}

Explain, please, why MMM is considered scummy when your post suggests that the scum team lies within {Drixx, Ingeel, Lady A}.

While I certainly believe one of {Ingeel/Lady A} to be scum, I highly doubt both are due to their presence on the same wagon at the end of yesterday.

Scum doesn't group up like that unless it's on an active wagon that they have a vested interest in pushing all the way through to lynch.

[-Grey-]

I personally believe scum would have avoided dogpiling on a d1 mislynch, especially when that mislynch was so likely to go through, which would suggest at least one scum is off the wagon


Everyone not voting Jen at the end of the day: Ingeel, Lady A, Drixx

Jen voters: -Grey-, MMM, Firescreamer, SensFan

(Flipped players omitted, obv)

From my perspective, there is likely one scum between each group of

{Ingeel, Lady A, Drixx}
&
{MMM, Firescreamer, SensFan}

I'm leaning more towards an Ingeel/MMM team, but I need to review yesterday and decide whether the fact I'M STILL BREATHING should alter those reads.

[-Grey-]

Ingeel listed Jen as a scumread but never joined the wagon or showed any intent to.

TBH, that would only concern me if Jen had flipped scum.

[-Grey-]

Hey Fire, what would you do if I decided you were scum that left me alive because you thought I was pocketed?

[-Grey-]

Hey Fire, what would you do if I decided you were scum that left me alive because you thought I was pocketed?

Hey Fire, what would you do if I decided you were scum that left me alive because you thought I was pocketed?

I'd argue against your other scumreads you would have to have on me to come to this conclusion.

I will tell you though that if I were scum I certainly would not have shot you.

So you understand my quandary.

[-Grey-]

{Ingeel, Lady A, Drixx}
&
{MMM, Firescreamer, SensFan}

Out of these players, if I eliminate those I believe would shoot me last night if they had the ability to do so, I am left with:

{Drixx}
&
{FireScreamer, SensFan}

This is a wildly different and unexpected set of suspects compared to my d1 reads, which... actually makes perfect sense, because had my d1 reads been accurate, I'd be dead due to the fact I have shown the capability to push my scumreads through to a lynch.

[-Grey-]

I mean it is WIFOM and I can't really argue with that as it by nature goes circular. I will say that the reason I wouldn't have shot at you isn't the reason you are suggesting and that others could have came to the same conclusion.

No, I can't agree with this for the simple fact that my scumreads would have been compelled to rid the game of a threat after watching the JenLew lynch take place.

[-Grey-]

Also, I'm not lynching Ingeel.

Votes there are wasted.

[-Grey-]

I mean it is WIFOM and I can't really argue with that as it by nature goes circular. I will say that the reason I wouldn't have shot at you isn't the reason you are suggesting and that others could have came to the same conclusion.

No, I can't agree with this for the simple fact that my scumreads would have been compelled to rid the game of a threat after watching the JenLew lynch take place.

If they thought similarly to me about 406 they would have not.

Yeah, really dumb to NK a cop soft.

Sure.

[-Grey-]

My lynch pool is {Drixx, FireScreamer, SensFan}

[-Grey-]

@Drixx: I've got my collar for today. If my research tonight acquits Ingeel, I will hear you tomorrow on the matter of SensFan.

I don't see the incentive to do what you just did

Town would not have done this.

Town would have left it the fuck alone.

[-Grey-]

@Drixx: I've got my collar for today. If my research tonight acquits Ingeel, I will hear you tomorrow on the matter of SensFan.

I don't see the incentive to do what you just did

Town would not have done this.

Town would have left it the fuck alone.

Note that after you responded (Which is when I read it as what I read it as) I did exactly that.

I do think it was a mistake to have posted that.

No, you just wanted confirmation of what you suspected.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: FireScreamer

[-Grey-]

I've stated my reasoning.

My beliefs do not require your validation.

[-Grey-]

Side note: FireScreamer is the one player that Drixx has not mentioned AT ALL in his ISO up until this point.

I'm feeling a FireScreamer/Drixx team here

[-Grey-]

Side note: FireScreamer is the one player that Drixx has not mentioned AT ALL in his ISO up until this point.

I'm feeling a FireScreamer/Drixx team here

I was about to and then you literally told me not to bother.

Read my post again.

And again.

And again.

Until you figure out that I'm not talking about you.

[-Grey-]

Ingeel listed Jen as a scumread but never joined the wagon or showed any intent to.

TBH, that would only concern me if Jen had flipped scum.

Cognitive dissonance is a problem always. Town has no reason to display dissonance (outside of running a gambit, which I think we can agree is NOT what is going on here).

Now the question is whether or not this is dissonance or a symptom of asynchronous mafia play. In other words, would Ingeel have hammered if time had continued on?

I'm not lynching Ingeel.

1) He'd have shot me, dig the bullet out, reloaded and shot me again last night.

2) Have you SEEN his spec today? Just lol. That is worth a townread in itself.

3) ~reasons~

[-Grey-]

You're mistaken if you think I would have left you alive over Srceenplay. He blew his credibility and while he was able to get himself out of the noose, nobody was going to follow him. YOU though? People will follow you.

You know they'll follow me into one mislynch after another, which would serve a scum!Drixx agenda admirably.

You had no reason to believe I'd turn my sights towards you as a possible scumread or I'm sure I wouldn't be alive right now.

[-Grey-]

There's also the fact that I would have hammered the wagon if I had came back to an unlocked game thread instead of a day over. In that probable alternate world, you wouldn't even be considering me.

The only difference in that alternate world is that you and Sens would be in opposite brackets.

[-Grey-]

Also Grey, get over yourself, mate. You're not some transcendent player and you shouldn't expect to be killed at night if your scumreads are Scum.

Those words don't carry much weight after yesterday, boss.

Especially when you're being contradicted by the IC that knows considerably more about me than you.

[-Grey-]

I'm totally Scum.

[-Grey-]

Drixx, I'm willing to not wagon you as long as we keep hitting scum in {FireScreamer, SensFan}

Deal?

[-Grey-]

Bad call on the night kill.

All I care to say.

All your whining ain't gonna change that.

[-Grey-]

Lel.

[-Grey-]

Of course Grey is running a gambit. And there's a super obvious reason why.

Tell me more about the inner workings of my mind.

Thrall me with your acumen.

[-Grey-]

Grey, mind responding to what I asked you above?

Obviously I do.

Maybe you wouldn't have needed to ask it if you had been paying attention to the game.

[-Grey-]

Fire, if you wanna bus Sens I'm down to hop over to him.

[-Grey-]

Realized new page, it was this:

Also for Grey, what happened to looking into MMM if Jen flipped town?

Grey is assuming that because MMM can also read and didn't kill him then MMM didnt have a say in who died.

That's fucking stupid to be honest.

I'll lynch within <Fire, MMM, Grey> today. Retracting scum read on Sens after his interaction with Grey.

UNVOTE: SensFan
VOTE: -Grey-

Retracting your scumread of someone that voted me for scumreading them.

Samrt.

[-Grey-]

Oh noez!

Ingeel is onto me!

[-Grey-]

Realized new page, it was this:

Also for Grey, what happened to looking into MMM if Jen flipped town?

Grey is assuming that because MMM can also read and didn't kill him then MMM didnt have a say in who died.

That's fucking stupid to be honest.

I'll lynch within <Fire, MMM, Grey> today. Retracting scum read on Sens after his interaction with Grey.

UNVOTE: SensFan
VOTE: -Grey-

Retracting your scumread of someone that voted me for scumreading them.

Samrt.

With no neutrals in game I don't see buddies getting into that heated a discussion. One of you is likely scum and I'm sure it's you Grey.

While I might actually start to think you are earnestly trying to hunt scum your logic is pretty baffaling almost every time you do so.

I wasn't joking when I said he wasn't getting lynched.

[-Grey-]

I also have no desire for a Grey Lynch.

I am willing to

UNVOTE:

VOTE: MMM

Damn and I almost thought I could get by without being lynched once this game.
I'm holding on to my vote until shit stops flying all over and falls into place where it should though. LA posting would be a bonus too.

That was a dumb post for all kinds of reasons, but it would be incredibly antitown of me to spell out why.

[-Grey-]

Is it bad that I town read Ingeel and null read everyone else right now?

What?? Why ? Don't tell me your plan is to be grey's yes man for the rest of the game

Nah, I'm his yes man.

Get it straight.

[-Grey-]

Is it bad that I town read Ingeel and null read everyone else right now?

What?? Why ? Don't tell me your plan is to be grey's yes man for the rest of the game

If that was my plan I'd be claiming to heavily town read him now.

No, you wouldn't. That would be stupid in this two-scum game. It would be pretty obvious if one of you flipped who the other would be. You would try to associate with someone else and subtly distance yourself from others.

That totally explains why I buddied up to him.

You're smart.

[-Grey-]

{Drixx, FireScreamer, SensFan}

The scumteam is within those three.

By tomorrow morning, I'll have it narrowed down more, so you can be sure that scum is going to be busting their balls to lynch me today.

[-Grey-]

If Grey is not scum, the team is within what he said at this rate.

Why?

You're a scumfuck, the few things Drixx has done have not been pro-town, and Sens v Grey is TvS.

So wait.

If I'm town, all three of them are scum... ?

[-Grey-]

No, looks to me like you're just tossing out shade to justify your remark.

[-Grey-]

No, looks to me like you're just tossing out shade to justify your remark.

No, not really

Oh, OK.

Glad we cleared that up.

FireScreamer

You still want this guy?

[-Grey-]

Also Grey. Isn't your argument that X player would have killed you last night invalidated by the possibility that X player wanted to and was convinced not to by a partner? While I generally agree that Ingeel would have shot you last night, what if his partner decided to keep you around or that you were too likely to be protected?

Ohai, missed this post with my page top goodness.

I suppose that's a fair point.

Srceenplay was still a wtf choice though. As Drixx rightly pointed out, he was a nonfactor.

[-Grey-]

Fire is back in my good graces (sorry for being a fickle bitch, paranoia fucks me up)

[-Grey-]

VOTE: MMM

I'm feeling this again.

[-Grey-]

I've got an incoming long term houseguest with next to no warning.

You accept those??

Queue me up!

[-Grey-]

Nevermind!

[-Grey-]

751 is an amazing town case for Fire, regardless of however anyone reads me.

[-Grey-]

Ingeel would almost definitely not have taken the actions he took at the beginning of day if he had a scum partner

That's actually untrue.

I can think of at least one scenario where he would have felt quite comfortable in his actions today as scum.

[-Grey-]

Ingeel would almost definitely not have taken the actions he took at the beginning of day if he had a scum partner

That's actually untrue.

I can think of at least one scenario where he would have felt quite comfortable in his actions today as scum.

Would you care to elaborate? Or would that be anti-town?

If I cared to, I totally would have.

Since I don't care to, feel free to dismiss the post if you can't imagine a world in where scum would do what Ingeel did.

My views do not require validation. I won't be offended.

[-Grey-]

Alright, Grey. Assume I'm willing to trust Fire's read of you for now.

Sell me on MMM.

Ugh. You're fucking with my worldview man.

My read on MMM stems from the healthy amount of suspicion I hold over his behavior regarding the JenLew wagon yesterday.

I mean, sure I could probably go into detail and whatnot, but that would take a considerable amount of time and I'm currently engaged elsewhere at the moment.

If you

need me need me

to break it down JenLew style I suppose I can... but not any time in the super near future.

Review his behaviour around the JenLew wagon yesterday. It makes sense from a scum perspective.

[-Grey-]

Grey earlier you dismissed MMM's behavior on the Jen wagon? Why are you bringing it up now?

I did?

Where, pray tell?

[-Grey-]

I refer you to 728.

[-Grey-]

Are you fucking kidding me Ingeel? This is your first time realizing that Grey flipped his reads on me+others, despite it dominating the conversation today?

Right?

[-Grey-]

Sorry, was responding to this but had to instead react to Ingeel's post.

I refer you to 728.

Do you mean 729?

No, because if I had said 729, you'd have asked why that happened and I'd have had to direct you to 728 anyway.

[-Grey-]

But if Grey is scum I'd gamble that MMM would be his buddy

Why aren't you helping me bus him then?

When scum is voting scum, it's much easier to lynch them.

[-Grey-]

Neither of the posts address me or Drixx directly unless I'm mistaken (which of course is possible). Should I surmise you feel similarly about all three of us?

728 is where I realize that Fire is right and I'm being a paranoid bastard, hence the repolarization of my reads.

[-Grey-]

And yeah, me softing an inno on Ingeel was pure bullshit that was based on my theory at the time that he'd have riddled me with bullets last night.

[-Grey-]

Convenient.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Ingeel

I'm seeing scum motive in Ingeel's play today on top of what he did yesterday.

Deciding to push a player softing an innocent on him reeks of scum motivation because they know the result is false. Town would accept the softed innocent because... it's right.

[-Grey-]

Oh Drixx~

Holla at your boy!

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Ingeel

I'm seeing scum motive in Ingeel's play today on top of what he did yesterday.

Deciding to push a player softing an innocent on him reeks of scum motivation because they know the result is false. Town would accept the softed innocent because... it's right.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment:
1) Assume he's Scum and you're softing an Innocent on you. What does he stand to gain to see you lynched or otherwise undermine the result? He knows you're not a Cop, and as long as you're alive people think he's clear.
2) We're talking about someone who missed that you flipped on your reads earlier. Is it that far outside the realm of possibility he didn't pick up on the softcrumb?

I never assume dumb scum.

Great way to lose.

[-Grey-]

And before you ask, 2 dumb 2 scum is a similar trap.

[-Grey-]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=67031

Excellent example of why underestimating your enemy is deadly.

[-Grey-]

[-Grey-]

Sens, I'm never going to be the towniest town that ever towned.

I kindly request that you come to terms with that.

I would think that you would be one of the few people in this game that could relate to that.

[-Grey-]

How are those doubts coming along now?

[-Grey-]

He knows you're not a Cop, and as long as you're alive people think he's clear.

Of course he knew I wasn't a cop, which meant he also knew he had excellent grounds to push me.

A townie would have just thought I was A TERRIBLE cop.

[-Grey-]

2) We're talking about someone who missed that you flipped on your reads earlier. Is it that far outside the realm of possibility he didn't pick up on the softcrumb?

I don't really see how this question bears any further relevance in light of recent events.

[-Grey-]

He knows you're not a Cop, and as long as you're alive people think he's clear.

Of course he knew I wasn't a cop, which meant he also knew he had excellent grounds to push me.

A townie would have just thought I was A TERRIBLE cop.

Furthermore, if I was Scum in Ingeel's shoes, I'd have totally pushed the fake inno to see how far the townie would take it and pray for a real cc.

[-Grey-]

For future reference, stuff like 806 is why I have a hard time with Ingeel picking up soft claims.

You heard the man...

Also to be completely fair that crumb was obvious to anyone with an eight of a cerebral cortex.