Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

[Cerberus v666]

I've yoked my vote to randomidget. We're going to see if his claim that his reads are great is actually true.

If someone can create hoods, make one for me and random please, so his reads can fuel my drive and we can carry you to a victory. ^^
VOTE: Siblings Quarrel

[Cerberus v666]

I'm about 4 pages behind, which isn't bad considering this crowd, but time to make a statement.

Fuck lurkers and low activity players

VOTE: rb

Random, can we kill this one instead please? I agree with rb's stance(though I disagree with his way of expressing it).

[Cerberus v666]

ummm Cerebus weren't you one of the ones who sat saying I am not gonna really play this game but you all will not lynch me a few games ago?

Mmm, I'm not sure what game you're talking about? The closest thing to that which I can recall in recent memory was the NYE Masquerade Ball, which you weren't part of, and which was a game where my complete uselessness was a very deliberate ploy to hopefully cause scum to make a terrible mistake and let me live.

The only game you and I have played together was Gistou, where I was quite active.

Also, my "inactive" is approximately 70% more active than most other posters, so....yes, I'm still going to desire death from everyone who is inactive.

Except Random.

He's my spirit animal.

@Titus: Read the signup thread Titus, I already pledged my heart and soul to random. Figure he can do the thinking, and I'll just wing it off his gut and get his targets lynched.

[Cerberus v666]

Eh.

Isn't this all more like Siblings Quarrel and Rach are trying to deflect attention onto Nero? If it isn't, please elaborate on why your actions with regards to Nero are any less suspicious than his regarding Rach.

[Cerberus v666]

@NotFury: just warning if your scum and trying to like, set up some plan to lay groundwork to force a lynch on me later: I'm like, the worst target you could pick.

If your not scum though, carry on. <3

[Cerberus v666]

Game found it was the previous incarnation of this one here is your ISO Cerb


viewtopic.php?t=68747&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go


I did not ask if you broke, wall I asked if you have a main that played with me in other games.

Umm. That proves my point doesn't it? 243 post iso, like the 7th most posts in the game, and it was a game where I was very much half-assing things.

I fail to see how that ISO supports your attempt to subtly call me a hypocrite.

[Cerberus v666]

Eh. Nobody pushed me to be more active? I just decided to respond to things, but I was at zero effort, analytically, throughout..mostly.

@GE: idk man, lol, he just made a comment in the signup thread about how his reads are always great but he can't get anyone to listen to him, while I'm quite good at getting people to listen to me, so I decided I'd help him push his lynches this game.

Oh, aboutrenyonw to caveat random: if we're in 3p lylo, I will vote for you EVERY time. Just so you don't get any crazy ideas about riding me to the end game..;p

[Cerberus v666]

Aboutreyonw to: and one

Autocorrect is a bitch.

[Cerberus v666]

A40 My vote is serious. I want their head on a pike.

[Cerberus v666]

rb why are you so sure that titus is town?

titus why are you so sure that rb is town

I know you are joking around but it makes me suspicious though other than not seeing a titus death tunnel, I am not seeing anything that points to scum titus here.

The mod told me so.

I'd rather flavorfish than scumhunt. Don't mind me.

I'm going to need a very good explanation for why you did this Titus.

[Cerberus v666]

rb why are you so sure that titus is town?

titus why are you so sure that rb is town

I know you are joking around but it makes me suspicious though other than not seeing a titus death tunnel, I am not seeing anything that points to scum titus here.

The mod told me so.

I'd rather flavorfish than scumhunt. Don't mind me.

I'm going to need a very good explanation for why you did this Titus.

I have the best explanations ever. They're amazing. Their so good I already did them. What was I explaining again?

Have you seen Cowboy Bebop or read the wiki?

I am intimately familiar Bebop. Yes, I caught your crew references and crumbs and such. None of that explains your statement that the moderator told you RB is town.

[Cerberus v666]

3, 2, 1
Let's VOTE: Cerebrus v666!

goodpost

I've yoked my vote to randomidget. We're going to see if his claim that his reads are great is actually true.

If someone can create hoods, make one for me and random please, so his reads can fuel my drive and we can carry you to a victory. ^^
VOTE: Siblings Quarrel

squad

Eh. Nobody pushed me to be more active? I just decided to respond to things, but I was at zero effort, analytically, throughout..mostly.

@GE: idk man, lol, he just made a comment in the signup thread about how his reads are always great but he can't get anyone to listen to him, while I'm quite good at getting people to listen to me, so I decided I'd help him push his lynches this game.

Oh, aboutrenyonw to caveat random: if we're in 3p lylo, I will vote for you EVERY time. Just so you don't get any crazy ideas about riding me to the end game..;p

i have never had an incorrect read in any large theme ever.
also we're NKing you one phase before LyLo then
VOTE: rachmarie
will respond with reads and stuff later

I think you mean you've never had an incorrect read in a large theme ever...except on me, yes? Because I do recall a certain SU2 that Drixx and I were a hair's breadth from winning...

[Cerberus v666]

@Transcend: just noticed you had reads. When have we played together such that you "know I have a (insert whatever positive adjective you used here ) scum game"?

Also, please stop with the high volume. Just so everyone knows I'm willing to policy low content/low effort players all game, but early game in one this large, I'm just as happy to policy anyone who appears to be shitting over the game with ridiculous post counts.

[Cerberus v666]

@Transcend: just noticed you had reads. When have we played together such that you "know I have a (insert whatever positive adjective you used here ) scum game"?

Also, please stop with the high volume. Just so everyone knows I'm willing to policy low content/low effort players all game, but early game in one this large, I'm just as happy to policy anyone who appears to be shitting over the game with ridiculous post counts.

Hey, you figure out my reasons?

Did you notice that I responded to your previous post directly, and stated that nothing you've said justifies outing a clear super early on, or pretending to have a clear based on flavor.

[Cerberus v666]

i haven't played with you

but SU2 is kind of talked about all the time

and i heard you and drixx played really well as scum

Sorry for the double post, neglected to respond to this as well.

First, damn, reputation gained for a lost game. Unfortunate. Second, I'm going to need a much more in depth explanation regarding the source of your knowledge than that. Where/when did this discussion take place. Were you directly involved in the conversation? Was it public? If so, a link would be appreciated.

This might seem a bit overboard, but I assure you its quite justified.

[Cerberus v666]

@Transcend: That is a terrible response. I sorta have to treat you as scum who have been coached by teammates now.
@Titus: and you should know that I don't accept responses like that.

[Cerberus v666]

I sorta have to treat you as scum who have been coached by teammates now.

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|___|___|Lol.|___|___|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

Elaborate Wall. Really. Until such time as evidence can be presented to me, WHY, in a game which is probably multiball, would I not be suspicious as fuck of someone who claims to have knowledge of my scum game in spite of never having played with me?

[Cerberus v666]

@Wall: Disagree with A, B is true insofar as the likelihood of the game being referenced, but I disagree that any such reference is likely to contain talk about RR, and C... Yes, that's the strongest argument against it.I think you misunderstand what I meant by coached. I didn't mean people were telling him what to say. I mean that his post was his own, but the source of his information could quite easily be a teammate due to a conversation about multiball/people to pay particular attention to in case they ended up on the other team.

The reason why it's attention decent argument isn't because he wouldn't need coaching, thats obvious, it's because including information gained solely through ones scummates in attendance list like that is a dumb mistake to make. Normally I'd dismiss it out of hand, but between their sheer volume of posts and the size of that list, it's a mistake I see as possible for even a good player to make.

@Titus: that isn't something you'll be learning from me.
@random: pfft. Work with me yo. Not supposed to agree with people I'm questioning about things! Lemme see what they say first!
@SQ: Read my opening post. Being reminded that your in the hydra did make me a little sad that random thinks you're scum, because I haven't played a game with you in over a year, but such is life. Maybe when I have more time I'll dive into your iso and fully develop my own read, but for the time being, off with your head!

[Cerberus v666]

@Random: oh, right. RVS. That thing people do that I avoid.

Okay, guess you're off the hook SQ. :p
UNVOTE:

So does that mean we're pwning Scott and Ramona?

[Cerberus v666]

@Random: A50 was "town" with you in SU2, though technically you were still not the same slignment, but yeah, you should have seen his play without knowledge of his alignment in that game. I dint recall if you were in Bloodborne, but if so, he was also town there.

[Cerberus v666]

Imo A50 will resolve himself to me pretty quickly. Just need to have more happen.
@Titus: I dont care about the claim itself. I care about why you did it. The response you gave, your non-answer answer, is an issue for me.
@NF: in a game this size it will be quite evident to anyone with even a modicum of experience whether or not they're the only scum team based on the size of their team and the abilities they have.

[Cerberus v666]

Imo A50 will resolve himself to me pretty quickly. Just need to have more happen.
@Titus: I dont care about the claim itself. I care about why you did it. The response you gave, your non-answer answer, is an issue for me.
@NF: in a game this size it will be quite evident to anyone with even a modicum of experience whether or not they're the only scum team based on the size of their team and the abilities they have.

And this is my point. It is not a scum slip to assume a multiball setup. You think you contradicted me, but really you just reiterated what I said.

I wasn't placing myself in opposition to you, I just thought I was being helpful because you had asked that a few times and nobody had really responded.

I agree that the assumption of a multiball setup is NAI, however there are more tonal things one could note related to the CERTAINTY of the assumption which ARE AI. I haven't been following closely enough to really say if anyone has posted in such a fashion yet, but dismissing all indications of such setup knowledge as NAI is ignoring a helpful piece of data, as well as ignoring the further information one can gain based on the reactions to the conversation/the pressure on the matter.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: Pencil me in as uncooperative in your flavor crumb search. You should know I don't claim things without damn good reasons, and you're not giving me any. Regarding the mason thing: I've only been a mason once on this site, in Suikoden, and we did not claim until forced to in D2 due to the false positives caused by our interactions. You made no complaints about the play.

Claiming mason D1 does not make sense for you. That means you're not a mason. That means you're lying about RB. What I don't know is WHY you're doing that. Perhaps you're informed town, who knows that all members of the bebops crew are town. Perhaps you have some other bit of mod gained knowledge.

Either way, the position you're taking and the action you took are not behaviors I expect from town!Titus. The statements above are my attempts to justify your choices so I don't have to be suspicious of you, but I'm not really buying them.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus:Oh right, the one way mason thing from my first game on site, a claim that you rightfully took issue with because there was no support for it.

...
@Math: *shrug* I think the game would be greatly improved if people scumhunted instead of spending their time on bullshit cryptic flavor shit.

Seriously.

[Cerberus v666]

@Majiffy, You clearly don't know me IRL Thank God too.

@Majiffy, You clearly don't know me IRL Thank God too.

Yeah I don't put up with drama queen bullshit.

Actually Jiffy is a great guy and a good friend to have

your loss

@Mod: Can you please tell these players to keep their conversation focused on the game, not on attacking, or defending, each others character. Nobody cares about how much anyone else hates or loves someone else as a person, it's irrelevant to the game, and these lines of conversation just lead to unproductive arguments

[Cerberus v666]

I agree with Cerberus

It's unfortunate that I'm scumreading you Cerb

Oh? When did that happen?

[Cerberus v666]

Yep, ISO skimmed, never a mention of me related to alignment. Interesting.

[Cerberus v666]

i've been reading thread and iso'ing people on phone on and off during the day, but haven't been around enough to post.

specifically 638 + 738 were really frustrating to read, given that you're familiar with Bebop flavour. it feels like you're asking things to fake activity or be not-lurker-scum, when you actually have zero reason to mention any of those things if you did understand the flavour crumbs

the rest of your ISO is relatively non-commital, not very in-depth and you could easily be a player that people would not want to lynch because you're very good late-game - but that's exactly what worries me.

638 wasn't me....

738 is related to, as I said later to Titus, me taking issue with early mason claims.

Under zero pressure, mason claim(on behalf of someone else, even!)=fuck you, you're doing a shitty thing that raises every last red flag that exists.

Regarding the fake activity thing...I'm literally just continuing the conversations people engage with me on, and doing nothing else. Not sure what is fake about that. I am at zero effort(for me, which still includes compulsive refreshing of the game and reading what was recently posted), and I'm making no effort to hide that. I'm tethering my vote to someone else, lol. Pretty transparent there...

Also...I don't know if you've seen my scum game? I'm pretty eh...invested in controlling the game. *shrug* meta is shit though, self-meta doubly so.

[Cerberus v666]

@Random: thoughts on the possibility that SQ is actually scum and Fro99er took over for damage control, which is why we haven't seen much from Alisae recently?

[Cerberus v666]

I really wonder how Gamma could possibly interpret my statements so far as me calling townhunting rolefishing. I just refused to answer because I don't personally claim without a good reason to do so, and helping someone whose alignment I'm uncertain of figure out parts of the setup is not a good reason. I have no objections to what Titus was doing other than believing it's risky and the benefits are unlikely to outweigh the risks, and demanding she give me more regarding her justificstion for outing rbs "conftown to her" status early on D1.

Regarding the random thing: if you read the sign up thread, you'd know it's completely NAI. As scum I'd feel obligated to do it, and as tkwn I'd do it because it seems fun.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: what do you want from me? Thoughts on mhsmith/gamma/sly?

Pedit: HI Maria!

[Cerberus v666]

@Random: what do you mean, the lower activity feels like town!me?
@Titus: will look into it when I get home, though tbh I'd rather blindly mislynch gamma(yes, mislynch specifically to indicate that his alignment is irrelevant to me) than put the time into reading his iso, so that one might not happen.

[Cerberus v666]

AM I SUPPOSE TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING HERE

I have several flavor clears. Faye Valentine is one.

This is what I was asking for before.

You have mod confirmation that the individuals who claim certain flavor roles are town?

Pedit: ah. Fair enough random. It seems you've noticed my egocentric nature when I'm being low effort. :p

[Cerberus v666]

AM I SUPPOSE TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING HERE

I have several flavor clears. Faye Valentine is one.

This is what I was asking for before.

You have mod confirmation that the individuals who claim certain flavor roles are town?

Pedit: ah. Fair enough random. It seems you've noticed my egocentric nature when I'm being low effort. :p

Not if they claim it. If they are those flavors.

Understood. So a flavor cop exists somewhere.

@our theoretical flavor cop: confirm with the moderator that your flavor results will return true roles and not fake claims, barring miller/gf sort of modifiers.

@Those who have crumbled themselves as members of the bebop crew: claim this clearly and plainly in thread. Scum have multiple heads and habe already figured out who you are. Town may not bother reading the wiki/gaining flavor knowledge and may thus miss it. Maximize the utility of the flavor cop that must logically exist in a setup where someone has mod confirmation of the alignment of certain flavor roles, without confirmation that those flavors do not exist as fake claims.

@Titus: clearly claim those flavors which you have mod confirmatikn regarding their alignment, so that again, there may be no uncertainty, and so scum can't kill you before you out all relevant informarion(unless you know that information will be included with your flip. In that case, consider not claiming, but also weigh the risk of being jaintored if such exists, given the knowledge you've claimed your role contains).

[Cerberus v666]

If we hadn't just gainer knowledge that there is almost certainly a flavor cop in this game, I would agree with you. There's generally no benefit. In this case though, there is one. If any scum were so secure in their fake claim as to respond to Titus' words(ESPECIALLY after she called RB conftown for their flavor claim), then we have converted our flavor cop into any pure cop for certain slots.

That is well worth letting scum shoot people who they would have only failed to shoot if they were stupid.

[Cerberus v666]

Dumb shit like this happens when people just do what they are asked. Now scum will claim those flavors and try to eliminate those roles.

Why couldn't scum just do this outside of the game?

If Titus is town, this is also Titus' opinion that these will flip town based on flavor, no?

It's not Titus' opinion. She said she has mod confirmarion. Titus, since it seems people still aren't getting it, can you please explicitly say: the moderator has confirmed to me that x y z are aligned with town, where x y z are the exact flavor names you've had revealed to you as town? Or something along those lines. People are slow if you don't spell things out for them.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, who is your biggest scumread?

Don't have one. I dislike that Gamma interpreted my previous actions in a nonsensical way and then declined to respond when I challenged that interpretation. I dislike your actions regarding your alignment knowledge, and think the optimal mechanical lynch for today is almost certainly you(because that lynch confirms a bunch of people as town if you flip town, and if you flip scum it allows us to parse the days intractions without as many false premises), but it's not a battle I'm willing to fight on D1 and I have no cause for thinking your scum, so willing to overlook it. I have few other opinion right now.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, who is your biggest scumread?

Don't have one. I dislike that Gamma interpreted my previous actions in a nonsensical way and then declined to respond when I challenged that interpretation. I dislike your actions regarding your alignment knowledge, and think the optimal mechanical lynch for today is almost certainly you(because that lynch confirms a bunch of people as town if you flip town, and if you flip scum it allows us to parse the days intractions without as many false premises), but it's not a battle I'm willing to fight on D1 and I have no cause for thinking your scum, so willing to overlook it. I have few other opinion right now.

Yeah, you push me and all you'll get is SRs anyway.

I like how you have zero doubt on those slots being scum fakeclaims and only 1 or 2 actually existing. Now scum cannot use them as effectively, because otherwise they needed to say hi to me.

Town!Cerb doesn't like to vote here. Yet, you're trying to turn the tables. Are you TRing SlySly? Agree w Math crumbs theory?

.I don't understand this post, the part about me having zero doubt about things. I don't know what you're saying. Can you make it clearer?

I also don't care about receiving SRs, you know that. Especially at such an early point. It's more like I don't have fhe time(or don't care to invest the time right now) that would be required to determine if your actually scum or just being dumb, and if scum, to pursue that line to a lynch.

Town!Cerb DOES like to vote here, because last time he checked thewagons were tied and far from lynch, and by putting pressure one way over the other he learns more, and in this case he has the sheeping random excuse to explain it(did you not wonder about me claiming to sheep random and then never following up on random gamma vote?).

I have no opinion on sly, haven't followed closely enough to know maths theory.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus:

Cerb, who is your biggest scumread?

Don't have one. I dislike that Gamma interpreted my previous actions in a nonsensical way and then declined to respond when I challenged that interpretation. I dislike your actions regarding your alignment knowledge, and think the optimal mechanical lynch for today is almost certainly you(because that lynch confirms a bunch of people as town if you flip town, and if you flip scum it allows us to parse the days intractions without as many false premises), but it's not a battle I'm willing to fight on D1 and I have no cause for thinking your scum, so willing to overlook it. I have few other opinion right now.

Yeah, you push me and all you'll get is SRs anyway.

I like how you have zero doubt on those slots being scum fakeclaims and only 1 or 2 actually existing. Now scum cannot use them as effectively, because otherwise they needed to say hi to me.

Town!Cerb doesn't like to vote here. Yet, you're trying to turn the tables. Are you TRing SlySly? Agree w Math crumbs theory?

.I don't understand this post, the part about me having zero doubt about things. I don't know what you're saying. Can you make it clearer?

I also don't care about receiving SRs, you know that. Especially at such an early point. It's more like I don't have fhe time(or don't care to invest the time right now) that would be required to determine if your actually scum or just being dumb, and if scum, to pursue that line to a lynch.

Town!Cerb DOES like to vote here, because last time he checked thewagons were tied and far from lynch, and by putting pressure one way over the other he learns more, and in this case he has the sheeping random excuse to explain it(did you not wonder about me claiming to sheep random and then never following up on random gamma vote?).

I have no opinion on sly, haven't followed closely enough to know maths theory.

[Cerberus v666]

Keep catching up Gamma.

Also you're close to lynch I think? Not sure. Actually, gonna UNVOTE: until I see the VC so you don't get hammered while your here and talking.

[Cerberus v666]

Flavor?

[Cerberus v666]

I already claimed Andy von de Oniyate.

Reasonable.

Get as much information as possible from the moderator regarding your abilities reliability.

I trust the claim, but I very much dislike how it's not consistently testable, if it is indeed a blank vig as you suppose.

Who did you submit to shoot once you realized you were close to lynch?

[Cerberus v666]

Claiming now
I am a Vigilante. I have the ability to kill at night or day, but the dayvig is one shot. I have infinite night uses.
When I checked my flavor it said that my character was a bad shot so I had to check the rules to see if they were bastard, since if they were I'd expect to be a blank vig.

So. Let's be clear here. Are you shooting blank shots or not?

[Cerberus v666]

we cannot get killed by our own faction btw

Shoot this, Gamma. Tis optimal. When you flip, well have a parity cop effect, or know that Doggo is BP scum. Not a sure thing, but better than most other options unless you manage to hit scum.

[Cerberus v666]

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|I'm pretty sure shooting|___|
___|___|someone universally |___|__
_|___|scumread would be more |___|___|
___|___|___|optimal?|___|___|___|__
_|___|In terms of gamestate?|___|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

No. We lynch the universal scum read and force scum to clear doggo/limit their ability to attack him if fhey want to get rid of the vig, or eless we keep a vig around that can shoot every night.

[Cerberus v666]

..... no. Shoot them. Stupid town deserve to did just as much as scum, leaving me happy either way.

[Cerberus v666]

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|You should shoot Cerb instead.|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

Also acceptable. I'm only here because I love FA and wanted to be part of her last game.

[Cerberus v666]

i really could care less

This statement does not mean what you think it means.

Words are important, you should use them correctly when trying to communicate with people.

[Cerberus v666]

I will do my best to out his crumbs if that is what is decided but NO shooting SlySly the vig isn't real pick someone valuable to the collective fine

If the vig isn't real, why does it matter?

Yeah, that post from Insomniacs is nonsensical.

Care to try again Insomniacs? Maybe put together a sentence that has some meaning?

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, yes, something else:

Nope, Gammas role doesn't confirm their alignment at all.

I actually think they're an SK now, with the dayvig as a way to give them the upper hand versus a single scum in lylo, allowing them to shoot them instead of trading shots in the night.

I'm okay with that though. *shrug* He can be leashed, and that works for me for the time being.

[Cerberus v666]

At least let me claim the crumbs I believe I saw if Town decides to shoot SlySly.

We should wait on SlySly before locking it in. You claiming his crumbs gives him a story to tell.

QFT.

SlySly can claim all his own damn crumbs. ^^

pedit: proving your role doesn't mean anything because the information a role cop would receive would look like a SK's role. And, at L-1? With a dayvig? It's definitely not optimal, but it's definitely better than getting lynched right now. I don't think you actually have an out as SK in this position. Any role you claim that would deter a lynch would guarantee a NK, and any role that wouldn't deter a lynch is a worthless claim to you.

[Cerberus v666]

that sk reach was a scumclaim if i've ever seen one

Do I have the energy to fight this level of stupid?

No. No I do not.

VOTE: Cerberus v666

Or you can shoot me Gamma.

Don't care enough to maintain my unlynchableness, too much work today.

[Cerberus v666]

that sk reach was a scumclaim if i've ever seen one

Do I have the energy to fight this level of stupid?

No. No I do not.

VOTE: Cerberus v666

Or you can shoot me Gamma.

Don't care enough to maintain my unlynchableness, too much work today.

(TBF, I actually find it impossible at the moment that I would get lynched today, so my vote is for the lolz more than anything, but fuck it, I'll help you out)

[Cerberus v666]

that sk reach was a scumclaim if i've ever seen one

His shading of my mason play was a scumclaim. He couldn't understand exactly why I was doing and not know I was hunting for conftown. I think some of the roles in the mason list were given to his team or scum PTs or none of them and he straight up believed all those roles are town and in the game and he's frustrated as fuck at a large conftowning group similar to SU2.

Gamma plz.

Make this end.

Seriously. Save me from the rampant ignorance in this thread.

[Cerberus v666]

that sk reach was a scumclaim if i've ever seen one

Do I have the energy to fight this level of stupid?

No. No I do not.

VOTE: Cerberus v666

Or you can shoot me Gamma.

Don't care enough to maintain my unlynchableness, too much work today.

(TBF, I actually find it impossible at the moment that I would get lynched today, so my vote is for the lolz more than anything, but fuck it, I'll help you out)

Did you miss this post Doggo?

[Cerberus v666]

0% chance I get lynched unless all the scum factions decide to pile onto the lynch. *shrug* I DO find your and Titus' posts incredibly ignorant and I would love to flip right now so I could laugh at you from the dead thread.

^^

[Cerberus v666]

No, Doggo, No.

This is Transcend right?

You were talking earlier about my awesome scum play and all that bullshit.

Yes.

I can defend myself against anything, even when people have me dead to rights doing the scummiest shit possible.

I just don't care enough right now to do it, and would gain more personal enjoyment from dying and proving your read wrong than I would from arguing with two of the spammiest posters in the game about purely subjective thoughts they have.

pedit: yeah. I expressed my opinion already Gamma. Shoot me or Doggo, I'd be happy with either one.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb claim

Is this because you're gonna shoot me?

And no, I can't claim, because doing so actually loses all my utility.

Well.

Hmm.

Fuck it.

Just means people have to actually have to do what I say now.

I'm a Lie Detector. ^^ My lie detection doesn't work on any statements directly related to alignment. That's why I wanted Titus to specifically say that she knew the alignment of slots x y z, rather than just replying to my statement as she did, so that way I could, rather than suggesting we lynch her to confirm that knowledge, just check her statement. Wanted the option in case the mod would let it work on claims people made about knowledge they received, that weren't direct I am town statements.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright. Flavor?

Anastasia.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb can you explain how your role relates to your flavor Cerberus

No idea, lol, I don't remember that characters limited role. She was like a kindly aunt to Spike, *shrug*. Per the wiki she catches two kids trying to steal from her without even watching them, so maybe that's related to it.

[Cerberus v666]

I can reasonably infer that if Faye Valentine, Steve Spiegel, Ed, Ein, and Jet Black are in the game they are town.

Is that good enough for your "lie detector", Cerb?

I think you can't actually say anything about alignment to be CERTAIN it would work.

Like, say

"I have mod confirmed information about blah blah blah if they are in the game." It says no direct or indirect alignment claims. It depends on how INDIRECT he judges your claim to have information about them in.

*shrug*

I don't know dude, I was going to run a billion possibilities by him during the night and figure out which posts would work and which wouldn't.

[Cerberus v666]

Daykills end days usually.

--Math

Eh. I've never seen a dayvig end the day.

[Cerberus v666]

I just looked at SlySly's ISO for the first time. There's absolutely no reason for people to be suspicious of him.

I mean, there's no reason to think he's town either, but the hard on for him is ridiculous given his content. I do want to force him to show up and do something though.

VOTE: SlySly

[Cerberus v666]

Rushing to be in it Titus? You're confbiasing. There's no reason to rush to be on it. It's blatantly out of character to place that vote, there's no reason to do it and you know it, especially when I could have just waited to see what random did and sheeped that.

You are right that I was the fulcrum of the gamma wagon, a wagon which I deliberately stepped back from when it was clear gAmma was around and talking to make sure he could contribute whatever he had. Why does scum!me do that when I could just be quiet and see if someone is gonna be stupid and hammer him? In a game this size an accidental hammer is practically guaranteed to happen at some point
Now the reason why I did it was because the days long enough already and I had insufficient reason to let it continue.

[Cerberus v666]

did you see Nero's flip, Fury?

I did, but I forgot the name of the mafia team lol. I know the other team are "Pirates" though.

...

You saw the flip, forgot the name of the team, then pointed a meajingles FoS at A50 for knowing the name of the scum team when YOU know the name of a team that has not flipped yourself?

[Cerberus v666]

I said I was day cop >.>

Oh, you were serious about that? And you actually did cop SlySly?

Why are we even considering lynching anywhere else? Why was there any argument or anything?

[Cerberus v666]

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|___|Because Not Fury|___|___|
___|___|isn't actually a daycop.|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

Yeah, that was my understanding. I believed it was all tongue in cheek...but now she's reiterating the claim.

This means I need a clear statement from her one way or the other.

[Cerberus v666]

Different situation entirely Wall. In this game someone had just claimed to be unkillable by someone in their own faction, therefore making shooting them a higher EV play than the normal play of using it as a second lynch.

The point of the line proposed in that game was to maximize town information. Converting the vig into a parity cop is, imo, strictly stronger than shooting someone. It delays the immediate information in exchange for 1)backing scum into a bit of a mechanical corner and 2)allowing a single pure cop action/flip to ccreate additional conftowns. Once it was stated that said factional BP was fake thiugh, I simply wanted the slot to die because, as I said, stupid town deserve to die.

Nice try though.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright, I'll walk you both through this.

If a day vig is used on a universal scum read on D1 we get a flip, and we can use that information to analyze the wagons that formed to hopefully inform our next lynch. Ideally, it will be a scum flip, but a town flip is still useful, IF the slots in question have actually had a good deal of discussion and interaction around them. That's generally the optimal path to take, at least as opposed to the option of letting the vig just shoot whoever they want at some random point in the game.

Now, in the scenario we were presented with, a shot at Doggo(were that initial claim actually an honest one, blah blah), has three possibilities.

1) The shot works, kills scum, yay.
2) The shot works, kills town(who flips with the claimed immunity) and we lynch Gamma, who is confirmed as not town.
3) The shot fails.
(There is also a distant 4th scenario where they flip as third party, in which case it functions as the town flip would, without the benefit of confirming gamma isn't town.)

It is the third scenario which is both most likely and most concerning, but still quite beneficial. Scum would normally be happy to kill off a vig, but this places them in a spot where performing the kill that makes the most sense still results in a benefit to town, that is, we receive confirmation of Doggo's alignment. It's also possible that scum, if they have a roleblocker(which they almost certainly do) would simply block Gamma every night and not kill him, but that provides it's own benefits. If scum don't kill the vig(or Doggo) then yes, we don't get that confirmation, but we do have a town vig sitting around and taking shots on our behalf every night. Swingy, yes, but also potentially game winning in and of itself.

The primary drawback of the above scenario, besides the opportunity cost of a more informed lynch on D1(which I was valuing lower than normal given the games apparent desire to simply end the day sooner rather than later, which left me with little cause to believe such extra information would actually be analyzed enough to be useful), were the risks of a pure BP on the part of Doggo(as scum), or the pair of them as scum together. That was a risk which I believed to be marginal by virtue of the simple fact of Gamma's claim. Mechanically, the role itself did nothing to change his likely alignment, but the fact that the claim was made at all made it very unlikely that Gamma was part of any set of groupscum. The BP Doggo situation WAS still a potential risk, but I was planning to simply lie detect the claim they made/force them to make a more precise one to deal with that threat.

I won't deny that it's POSSIBLE that I simply saw the opportunity for a cooler play than the standard one and overvalued it's relative merit simply because it was unconventional, but I do maintain that the two lines were, at the very least, equally effective ones.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus I love you not including "chairman doggo NOT having the immunity" possibility.

Umm, I addressed that at the start of my wall, where I said "assuming they had the claimed immunity blah blah". The universe where they DON'T have the claimed immunity and are town is the reason why I said they should be shot for being stupid and making that claim.

[Cerberus v666]

[quote="In post 2620, Cerberus v666"
Now, in the scenario we were presented with, a shot at Doggo

(were that initial claim actually an honest one, blah blah)

, has three possibilities.

[/quote]

See the above? That addresses that scenario. Gamma, how can you persistently misunderstand my posts? Earlier you interpreted my posts regarding Titus' as somehow calling her out for rolefishing, and now you fail to recognize that the above post was meant to explain the line of reasoning that led to me suggesting that Gamma shoot the claimed faction immune over a universal scumread. That line of reasoning is obviously not relevant in the event that the factional immunity does not exist, so there's NOTHING TO ADDRESS in that scenario, and it has NO RELEVANCE to my line of reasoning.

One can't plan for town lies when determining optimal lines of play, all one can do is assume all statements are true if town, and possibly true if scum, and look at the results of those three possible scenarios of honest town, honest scum, and lying scum.

pedit: Holy shit you people are fucking incompetent. Wall. I wrote a big ass fucking wall to address your point that it seemed that my approach to the situation was VERY different, and displayed that NO, it wasn't very different, and NO, the claimed factional immunity wasn't a minor difference, and you fucking latch onto the part where I CLEARLY said I gave no fucks about whether or not Doggo was town because stupid town deserve to die. Like, your initial point had some merit if you didn't understand my thought process, town!Cerb has done one thing in the recent past, why is he advocating something different this time, but this? That last part is pretty obviously me not caring about winning AT ALL. In that sequence of posts I advocated for shooting myself OR doggo.

So no, it had nothing to do with winning, or teaching someone a lesson. I sincerely believe that Doggo's death would be better for the game state(because they've been shown to be liars now, and they're spammy, so if town, I'd prefer they were gone), but that belief had nothing to do with my final statements on the vig shot.

[Cerberus v666]

No, but IGNORING the part where I explain the thought process, the specific thing you asked about, and instead shifting the conversation to a completely separate issue, DOES give the appearance of incompetence(at least the sort of incompetence that comes in the form of ignoring when someone addresses your concerns and looking for new reasons to support your bias once the old reason has been shown to be shitty).

Regarding the obvtown bullshit: No. That's purely subjective. You can't make that statement with any degree of authority. What's obvtown to you isn't obvtown for others, therefore my advocacy for a shot on a slot you believe to be obvtown has no significance as a sign of my own competence(or lack thereof).

I do agree that I'm an asshole though. People are biased in general, and too stupid to REALIZE they're biased, so I tend to treat everyone as irrational all the time within the confines of Mafia. And it's well within your rights to think it's optimal to lynch fucking assholes. Feel free. Such a push actually has a chance for success at this stage, unlike earlier when Doggo and Titus voted for me.

[Cerberus v666]

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|I asked about a different|___|___|_
_|___|angle because I wasn't|___|___|_
___|___|interested in the original|___|__
_|___|any longer. I don't understand|___|
___|___|how that isn't reasonable?|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|Do you instantly forego|___|__
_|___|bad feelings about someone|___|
___|the moment that they explain|___|__
_|___|one thing away if something|___|
___|___|gave you a bad vibe?|___|__
_|___|It would be halfassed hunting|___|
___|___|to completely let go of|___|__
_|___|a read just because someone|___|
___|___|explained something.|___|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

I generally don't do vibes. I do evidence. I do reasoning and conscious thought. So yes, if something is explained to me and actually makes sense, without the explanation itself contradicting previous statements, that piece of evidence is filed away as reasonable and only worth reexamining upon the emergence of further evidence.

And I don't care about you letting go of or not letting go of the read. What I care about is the complete dismissal of my explanation that comes when you wholly ignore the explanation and instead focus on other minutiae. As I said, it gives the appearance of confirmation bias. It makes it seem that you're more interested in finding evidence to support the position you've adopted rather than evaluating the situation and determining what position makes sense. We would have had no problem had you said "Okay, maybe your original suggestion for the shot wasn't as out of character as I thought, but later on, when you advocated for the shot anyways after learning that the claim was not true, THAT was definitely out of character. It was not a shot at a universal scumread as you had previously suggested in prior games. You say that the other optimal line is using the day vig as a second lynch, so why didn't you default back to that thought when your other idea was proven unworkable?"

Stating things that way, in a fashion that makes it clear that you bothered reading my post, and are actually responding to it, and that you have a valid complaint?

That's something I can respect and will refrain from calling stupid.

[Cerberus v666]

^ I just reread my last post and I've clearly spent too much time hydraing because I referred to myself as we. That's pretty entertaining really, but will probably be called a scum slip by someone. *sigh* Ah well.

[Cerberus v666]

So many alt slips, but dedication to the post restriction at least.

To answer your question: I'm not really interested in making it easy for people to sort me, ever? I'm also not defensive about basic questioning, I'm defensive about questioning from individuals who seem to be wasting my time by ignoring my previous answers. I don't like wasting my time. As I said, the question you asked would have been fine had it seemed to come from a place of thought, rather than an ignorant desire to "gotcha" me by pointing out something else. Not saying that it came from such a desire, I'm simply explaining the way it looked to me, and the reason behind the way I reacted.

[Cerberus v666]

So many alt slips, but dedication to the post restriction at least.

To answer your question: I'm not really interested in making it easy for people to sort me, ever? I'm also not defensive about basic questioning, I'm defensive about questioning from individuals who seem to be wasting my time by ignoring my previous answers. I don't like wasting my time. As I said, the question you asked would have been fine had it seemed to come from a place of thought, rather than an ignorant desire to "gotcha" me by pointing out something else. Not saying that it came from such a desire, I'm simply explaining the way it looked to me, and the reason behind the way I reacted.

The above post is a lie actually, the first sentence at least. In Bloodborne I was very interested in obvtowning(because of the games mechanics and my role there was special reason to want everyone to townread me), and I made an effort to do so for the first time ever. So, there has been an occasion where I wanted people to easily sort me, it's just not something I desire in most games.

[Cerberus v666]

It's not role madness.

It's not declared role madness, which means it could be, and I have yet to see a vanilla claim. Regardless, it's probably role heavy. I don't recall the ratio in the previous incarnation, though I do recall seeing vanilla flips there.

[Cerberus v666]

For the record, I'm okay with lynching Not Fury. I wasn't before, but this fake claiming song and dance is annoying as fuck.

Not Fury, do you have any objections to being lynched tomorrow if Sly flips as not pirate, without a miller modifier?

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, who do you instead propose we lynch?

That's not an answer to my question. I only care about how much support you're willing to put behind your day cop claim, which you have confirmed as a real claim.

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|If Sly flips one of Titus's|___|___|__
_|___|confirmables, you understand|___|
___|___|how big of a piece of|___|__
_|___|___|shit I'm going to be|___|___|
___|___|___|tomorrow, right?|___|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

This too.

Pedit: god you're all fucking incapable of basic reading comprehension. Im voting fucking sly not fury. I don't give a fuck about lynching or not lynching that slot, they've done nothing alignment indicative, as far as Im concerned it's a completely random lynch. The only support for them as a scum comes from YOUR COP CLAIM. So, again, if sly flips as anything other than what you claimed he would flip, you fucking die tomorrow. Do you have any objections to that plan Not Fury?

[Cerberus v666]

You're actually not voting either Cerb. If I can count.

VC got reset after the Nero death.

-- Math

Oh right. L-2 now is sufficient pressure wise. Unless Not Fury comes back and puts their life on the line for this cop claim, I'll hold off on voting until Sly shows up.

[Cerberus v666]

Someone drew a gun out and shot Nero Cain!

(will provide better flavor later)

Nero Cain ; Mao Yenrai ; Godfather Rolecop aligned with the Syndicate

Spoiler: Nero Cain ROLE PM

Mao Yenrai Godfather Rolecop Aligned with Red Dragon Syndicate Godfather: If anyone investigate you, they will find you as a member of Town (Bounty Hunters). Rolecop: Each night, you may investigate the abilities of a player in game. Factional Kill: Your faction has a night kill. You as a member of the syndicate who has a gun, will be able to do this killing as well. Factional Chat: You can talk with the other members of the syndicate at any time in here . You will win if the red dragon syndicate controls 50% of the votes or more and no other type of scum (Enemy of Town) are alive.

I just looked at SlySly's ISO for the first time. There's absolutely no reason for people to be suspicious of him.

I mean, there's no reason to think he's town either, but the hard on for him is ridiculous given his content. I do want to force him to show up and do something though.

VOTE: SlySly

Actually, nevermind, you can't count Math. That means Sly is now at L-1!

[Cerberus v666]

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|You seem awful calm about|___|__
_|___|the idea of potentially offing|___|___|
___|___|___|one of your clears.|___|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

If a speedhammer happened, we'd net a scum.

Oh really? Even though right now someone could have easily accidentally hammered if I hadn't taken the time to double check maths VC?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Not Fury. You should stop ignoring me.

[Cerberus v666]

Finally checked Gistou
That game is nothing like this rb

Really Gamma? How do you know that?

(Yes, Gistous setup was very nonstandard, but FA designed this game and was in that one, so it seems silly that assume this game took no inspiration from that one.)

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb and PV trying to deflect. Lols.

VOTE: Tywin

Slysly is getting replaced.

Wtf? What have I said in the last, well, fuck, the entire game, that's an attempt at deflection?

Gorkington replaces wall.

This was supposed to be a quote of gorkingtons first not wall post, the one where he says Titus might be scum, to nod in agreement.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah. If you're still here and reading, showing up and just saying that is effectively killing yourself with the current game state. More is required, unless this mob suddenly develops patience.

[Cerberus v666]

PV and Cerb deflecting from SlySly/Tywin.

...

Titus. Use your words. Please show where I'm deflecting from anything.

Not Fury: You're still ignoring me.

[Cerberus v666]

Nobody is conftown. Period.

I don't give a fuck about your role except insofar as you made the mistake of claiming a fucking guilty on someone, DOUBLED DOWN ON THAT GUILTY LATER, and refuse to tell us if you're completely full of shit or not.

Let me rephrase rhe situation: if Sly flips before you clarify, I will start giving a fuck and you WILL be lynched tomorrow. You were already halfway to lynch at some point, and I can take it the rest of the way if you give me cause.

Pedit: nonzero chance you're correct, except it's just as plausible that she's simply scum doing the same thing, and using the "ooh gonna conftown 5 people" thing as a way to put herself front and center while dissuading the other scum team from shooting her.

[Cerberus v666]

This.

Nobody is conftown. Period.

I don't give a fuck about your role except insofar as you made the mistake of claiming a fucking guilty on someone, DOUBLED DOWN ON THAT GUILTY LATER, and refuse to tell us if you're completely full of shit or not.

Let me rephrase rhe situation: if Sly flips before you clarify, I will start giving a fuck and you WILL be lynched tomorrow. You were already halfway to lynch at some point, and I can take it the rest of the way if you give me cause.

Pedit: nonzero chance you're correct, except it's just as plausible that she's simply scum doing the same thing, and using the "ooh gonna conftown 5 people" thing as a way to put herself front and center while dissuading the other scum team from shooting her.

Was in response to this:

why you pressuring me so hard to role claim bruh? I'm conf town

[Cerberus v666]

PV and Cerb deflecting from SlySly/Tywin.

...

Titus. Use your words. Please show where I'm deflecting from anything.

Not Fury: You're still ignoring me.

You refused to talk or analyze about Sly or Tywin when votes on Tywin appeared. That's deflecting.

What? Refused to talk or analyze? I said everything there was to say about sly when I voted him, and I couldn't care less about Tywin other than finding it irritating that people moved their votes away from Sly to Tywin, thus reducing the pressure on the slot to put negligible pressure on Tywin.

[Cerberus v666]

Isn't that the other head of Reasonably Rational?

Yep. I advertised the open slots to him the other day when I noticed we still had three replacement requests.

[Cerberus v666]

Ramicus is probably scum though...:/

why i'm scum?

P-edit: i'm not resisting to Sly lynch, but i really didn't liked Tywin earlier, you can find it in my ISO, so i take his lynch over null read any day

Terrible response to my flavor clears.

Lurking through Sly wagon.

Naked vote onto Tywin

*shrug*

Why are naked votes onto Tywin suspicious if you believe deflecting from him is also suspicious?

[Cerberus v666]

That's not an answer Titus.

If deflecting from Tywin is suspicious, voting for him should, at the very least, be far less so.

(You're still imagining the deflection, and haven't managed a response that actually supports the idea that I was deflecting from anything, but that's another issue entirely.)

[Cerberus v666]

So, my issue with t switch to Tywin is the simple fact that SlySly showed up, noticed he wasn't at L-1, and essentially proceeded to say fuck you to everyone. I don't known of that's actually meaningful alignment wise, but it does make me feel as though it would be better to put him to l-1 and force answers rather than persisting I'm this sparring over Tywin.

Gorkington, can you please link me to a scum case on Tywin, or constrcut a succinct one for me? I'm not following as closely as I should be, so if such has been done before, I missed it.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh and if it's purely meta based without some explanation hinting at scum motivations for various actions, please just tell me it's meta, no need to go into details, I don't know Tywin well enough to have any input on a meta argument, nor do I have the time to research myself.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, I see you saying things, but I'm having difficulty distinguishing between what you believe to be objectively scummy, and what is scummy for Tywin in particular. I'm far more interested in the former.

Pedit: got it.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus has been actively townhunting this entire game by trying to signal to the BeBop crew.

This means so little I'm astonished you attach any significance to it.

Regarding the NKs: I'm pretty damn sure everyone who was outright suspected by Doggo or SQ isn't scum on the team that killed them. They could still be scum, but yeah, too early in a game this size to kill people because they suspect you. I guess it's possible they killed them for a reason unrelated to their suspicion of their slots, but I'm giving that less probabilistic weight.

Also, I lied yesterday. Well, exaggerated. I'm a lie detector, yes, but only on even nights, and only for the phase immediately preceding the night, so I'll be back later to check on what things I want people to firmly establish as true. Suggestions are welcome.

[Cerberus v666]

Davesaz, you want to tell us what you were doing last night?

Also if someone got a guilty from SQ feel free to out that I guess.

I was obviously not killing. I'd prefer not to say until it's actually helpful, other than you now know my role has a loud modifier.

If anyone got a result from SQ it will not contain the identity of their target, so unless we can figure out who they would have targeted we're pretty much out of luck.

Loud modifier. So concecutive nights of that ability used make it probable that Dave didn't shoot SQ at least.
@Gork: was it the omission regarding my roles details, or something else in my post?

[Cerberus v666]

omission could very very easily be stalling and i really dislike you shitting on the weight of doggo's reads as the NK target when its really self-serving here.

Lynch me. Seriously. I'd say the same fucking thing whether I was in the list or not, and did so because it's an observation that everyone needs to hear....or did you think that I somehow missed how bad that observation of mine makes me look? Or did you perhaps miss the fact that I very specifically didn't say any of them were probably town? I said they were almost certainly NOT on the team that killed them,which helps us sort out associatives to the different scum teams, but doesn't mean I think any of them should be considered cleared, including myself.

Also, why do I need to stall a lie detector claim? Just pick stallomething a teammate said that's true or false and claim and result in it, done. Utilize whatever investigatives my team has to create the circumstances for the next detect to be performed on someone who isn't a member. Lie about picking a bad quote the next night. Blah blah. Changing my claim isn't necessary for scum!me to pull it off.

[Cerberus v666]

Nope, I wasn't fake claiming. I didn't tell you the frequency with which I could use my ability. Very different. And sure, you can certainly disagree with my position about the NK. Maybe the scum team is stupid.

And no, I don't think so. I have neither the time nor inclination to actually connect with the game in a way that will allow analysis. There is a reason why I was chaining my vote to randoms.

[Cerberus v666]

And a general PSA to town:

Quit fucking fakeclaiming already.

I have fake claimed ONCE in my entire scum career and it was believed. Seriously. It was a rare case fake claiming was good for Town.

Stop fucking fake claiming all the damn time. It makes your real claims meaningless when you do.

--Math

Agreed. Which is why I didn't fake claim. As I said, huge difference between telling you I can do something I can't do(fake claiming) and telling you I can do something but not telling you the restrictions(such as shots or frequency of use).

@caiterb: so I didn't know what a lie detector really does, so I looked it up real quick. Wiki says that role is rarely used because you could just have everyone say ' I'm town' and just clear everyone one by one until you found a lie.

If that's the case though, couldn't you just force that? Like why wouldn't you?

Anything that directly or indirectly indicates alignment will always return a "true" result.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb would me being informed others are town always return a true result?

Probably. I haven't asked FB yet because I wasn't going to be able to act last night anyways, and I was sorta hoping someone had said something incriminating and would kill me out of fear I'd catch them. I'll ask him tonight.

If it would fail, I'm not certain how to check to be honest. You could simply say something like "My role is informed about x other slots", but the problem there is if your scum....then you are indeed informed about x other slots. :p

The numbers would need tole match up exactly I guess. I also don't know the value of checking it, it seems like a waste. Obviously those slots are town if they're not a fake claim.

@Math: understood, sorry, Gorkington just accused me of fake claiming, so I thought your post was spurred on by that.

[Cerberus v666]

Good thought. I'd like to have an array of statements to consider detecting, and something along those lines should definitely be one of them. I'm probably going to take that array of posts, list them in order of priority, and submit my action to fb in the form of "I will lie detect this post, unless this post would not be something my lie detection could work on due to an alignment connection; in that case, use my detect on the next post under these same conditions."

Basically, to save the time of asking FB a million questions about posts, I'll just be batching them and we shouldn't have to worry about the alignment issue messing with my results.

[Cerberus v666]

I think Tywin, Ramicus, Gorkington, Ramona-Scott all town.

Still suspicious of RachMarie.

Tywin was part of yesterday's discussion between Gorkington and me.

Ramicus, I think I discussed, but similar play to Timeshift.

Gorkington, to me, obv-town, which is why I discussed with him.

Ramona-Scott mostly today's posting, but looked through their ISO, and gives me townvibes.

Cerb from his posts yesterday, claim is just a plus.

Why am I in this post?

[Cerberus v666]

I think Tywin, Ramicus, Gorkington, Ramona-Scott all town.

Still suspicious of RachMarie.

Tywin was part of yesterday's discussion between Gorkington and me.

Ramicus, I think I discussed, but similar play to Timeshift.

Gorkington, to me, obv-town, which is why I discussed with him.

Ramona-Scott mostly today's posting, but looked through their ISO, and gives me townvibes.

Cerb from his posts yesterday, claim is just a plus.

Why am I in this post?

Don't face palm me! Seriously, I haven't noticed you expressing thoughts on me before this, and I'm not included in the quoted reads(which I assume you were adding more depth to), so WHY did you throw your read on me into that post?

[Cerberus v666]

@PV: Yes. Same if a town slot said they were scum.

@Titus: interestingly, it just checks for the truth of a statement, as decided by the moderator, without regard for whether or not the individual making the statement believes is to be true/has knowledge of the matter. It also defaults to true if the moderator can't determine if the statement is definitely true or not. That's based on the exact role PM. Corner cases will need to be discussed with FB(like if someone were to track a universal miller and said "x visited y(the nk) last night", would it return true because the result they're sharing is rhe true result they received, or would it return false because they visited someone else, even though that person couldn't know.)

[Cerberus v666]

Objectively speaking, if we believe the claim, then at some point closer to EOD cerb should come up with a specific post to make, and either everyone or just selected people copy/paste that post, and he checks it however he needs to do so. Multiple pages of discussion about how specifically we should post things is not particularly helpful, productive, or interesting. Now back to lurking.

QFT.

As I sakd, I'll take suggestions. I'll run the suggestions by the moderator. Those that pass muster will be shares aifh everyone, and a decision can be made from there.

[Cerberus v666]

Who is taking Titus' claim as AI? I'm certainly not, and I've said it repeatedly.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb did you use your "lie detector" yet?

Titus has been actively townhunting this entire game by trying to signal to the BeBop crew.

This means so little I'm astonished you attach any significance to it.

Regarding the NKs: I'm pretty damn sure everyone who was outright suspected by Doggo or SQ isn't scum on the team that killed them. They could still be scum, but yeah, too early in a game this size to kill people because they suspect you. I guess it's possible they killed them for a reason unrelated to their suspicion of their slots, but I'm giving that less probabilistic weight.

Also, I lied yesterday. Well, exaggerated.

I'm a lie detector, yes, but only on even nights,

and only for the phase immediately preceding the night, so I'll be back later to check on what things I want people to firmly establish as true. Suggestions are welcome.

[Cerberus v666]

I should probably clarify that I like Titus and enjoy playign with her. But I don't think that her town game tends to be especially good, and her being aggressively wrong about silly things tends to be her biggest town tell. I've not really seen the standard fire that I see from her this game, which is weird, because I'm usually very good about seeing town!Titus when it exists (I think I'm one of the best players on site at IDing Titus fwiw), and I'm pretty weirded out by NOT having a strong opinion on her so far.

Hmm. I believe "fire" is the same verbiage chosen by Gorkington D1 to explain his suspicion of Titus. I don't believe I saw you express any opinions about her when the idea was brought up previously. Did you feel this way on D1, or is it a recent development? If it's recent, what prompted it? If not, why haven't you been pressuring her?

(My apologies in advance if I missed previously stated positions on Titus.)

[Cerberus v666]

@Gorkington: not ignoring your question, I simply don't have an answer for you. I want to say something like Titus, Smith, and idk who else(maybe Not Fury, but that could simply because her whole cop thing annoys the hell out of me),but i dont have reasons for the suspicion.

[Cerberus v666]

Response unsatisfying. The quotes you gave conveniently don't include this rather salient data point in your read progression:

Where I'm at rn:
{rb}
{SQ, Titus, Tywin, Wall}
{doggo, rach, random}
{a bunch of nulls}
{cerb, daneler, davesaz, not fury, pv, ram, scott/ramona, sly}

None of the scumreads I have are screaming off the page at me, which is kind of annoying (there are a couple nullscums - Gamma, Insomniacs). Probably gonna wait and see what sly has to say for when he comes back before really doing anything unless something becomes obvious, probably gonna try and reread some of the key cases as well when I get the chance.

So, you started, in basically super early game, expressing a tiny bit of suspicion, then 800 posts later(and without any mention of her in the interim) she's in the top tier of your town reads? And then now, today, she's back to being a suspect? There are steps missing in this progression. There's nothing natural about it with regards to what you've shared with the rest of the class.

[Cerberus v666]

First of all, she's not a mason? Nor is her she "verifiable" in any way. The mechanical things don't actually apply in any sense. Even if fhey did, what prompted you to start talking about her again if you've decided that her behaviors you find suspicious were NAI due to the mechaniCal claim? For that matter, how does someone whose behaviors you are expressly suspicious of end up as one of your top town reads in the first place? The mechanical argument holds no water. How is her claim nonsensical as scum? I said earlier that it's a very good claim in multiball because it allows her to actively be loud and participate while suggesting that if the other team shoots her for drawing too much attention they'll confirm a bunch of people as town. Basically, your reasoning on the mechanics and how that interacts with her play doesn't make sense, and the position you ended up at with these thoughts doesn't make sense, and coming back town the idea that she lacks her town fire when you already decided that didn't matter doesn't make sense.

[Cerberus v666]

Mm. How do you know so much about the setup of the previous game? I thought Fa had asked people to not claim anything etc. I'm confused where your knowledge of the last game came from. As far as I know, all we knew was one of the scum teams details, and nothing beyond that for the anti-town roles.

[Cerberus v666]

Mm. How do you know so much about the setup of the previous game? I thought Fa had asked people to not claim anything etc. I'm confused where your knowledge of the last game came from. As far as I know, all we knew was one of the scum teams details, and nothing beyond that for the anti-town roles.

This is directed at A50. I don't think anything is AI there, except maybe his inexplicable ignorance of this games likelihood of being multiball, but all that original game info is quote surprising to me.

[Cerberus v666]

Perhaps you should call your role what it is and then there wouldn't be any need for discussion? You're an informed town neighborizer, with the caveat that you can only neighborize certain individuals(based on what you just said).

At least, that's what your claiming. If town, it's also plausible you're simply a neighborizer who is utilizing flavor knowledge to increase the likelihood of creating what is functionally a masonry from your perspective. If scum, you could just be a neighborizer attempting to flush out likely PRs.

My insistence on using the word mason way back in that first game together was the result of ignorance as to how else to describe it(+how my role pm described the role)...you know better than I did back then, and you should stop attempting to sway public opinion in your favor by repeating the word mason as though it were an accurate to describe your role.

[Cerberus v666]

Actually A50 that's not a bad idea, lynching on the Sly wagon

We should lynch off it. Red scum are unlikely to bus. Thus, we'd be more likely to hit town or non-Red scum on that wagon.

^ better to fully remove a source of kills than to wound both. I'm mot sure I agree that they were unlikely to bus, but losing their gf mid day probably messed with things a bit. Probablya lot of value to be gained in seeing how people's perspectives on sly shifted(not their perspectives on gamma!) after the vig shot happened.

Pedit: let's clarify this. You can't call yourself a masonizer AND claim that the confirmation is one way. That doesn't work. Masonries are mutually confirmed. Without that, they're just hoods, and you're just a neighborizer.

[Cerberus v666]

I disagree that scum as a whole are more likely to be off the wagon. That depends entirely on the play style of the blue team. There were no other options for lynch other than sly, so it's possible they didn't feel the need to vote, but it's not more likely than they chose to hop on.

[Cerberus v666]

Naw, this is more fun. I'd rather have you accurately express what your claiming to be able to do so we can evaluate it.

Plus...what makes you think I'm mot scumhunting here? Pretty sure my doubt of you is quite evident. Backing you into a corner and forcing you to clearly define your role while also pointing out your manipulative verbiage only helps me sort you, and get you lynched if I decide I've reached a high enough degree of certainty that you're scum.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: why does gamma have to be groupscum? As opposed to an SK as I suggested yesterday.

[Cerberus v666]

I'd rather not waste my lie detect on you, or make it so clear that I'm definitely going to use it on you.

Eh. There are multiple potential SKs in the series?

[Cerberus v666]

And the manipulative part is the verbiage Titus. You know that. People will see you say mason and lose the ability to think critically. Even if your role calls what you're doing that, you KNOW that's not the effect you're having.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus -- Cerberus is a traditional player.
Cerberus -- Titus is a manipulative player as town or scum.

Both of you knock it off, have fun, townread each other and:

Spoiler: HUG EACH OTHER

https://media.giphy.com/media/XpgOZHuDf ... 949419fc2f[/img]

Will catch up on the rest of the thread later.

--Math

Who said I'm not townreading Cerb? I phrased my posts to Cerb for a reason Math.

I have 0 doubt that Cerb is not red scum. 0. That's why he's a horribly lynch today despite his best efforts to the contrary.

Haven't you called for my lynch a few times? I'm pretty sure you agreed with gork when he said I was back in the scum pile, and you said you really wanted to lynch me but it was suboptimal.

....

So, eh, townreading me but you really want to lynch me?

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: why does gamma have to be groupscum? As opposed to an SK as I suggested yesterday.

The amount of deaths, flavor analysis gathered from the wiki, etc.

What flavor analysis are you using here?

Death description.

...

You don't believe there is a possible serial killer who uses a gun?

Mad Pierrot would like a word with you.

[Cerberus v666]

Zzzx is always inactive as fuck in my experience. NAI. Unfortunately. Of course, I'm always down to wagon the fuck out of him because of that.

[Cerberus v666]

Tywin trying to pin a nightkill on me of all people when scum did the same thing to me in a game we were both in is also a red flag

Why is this a red flag? Why is scum!Tywin more likely to do that to you than someone else when he knows you'll be wary of such tactics?

[Cerberus v666]

Tywin trying to pin a nightkill on me of all people when scum did the same thing to me in a game we were both in is also a red flag

Why is this a red flag? Why is scum!Tywin more likely to do that to you than someone else when he knows you'll be wary of such tactics?

Look at the way he presented it it's like he planned it out saying "oh why did they die" he knows I know both those slots in the hydra very well and tried to blame it on me asking a simple question like "why did they die" when he knows damn well that's simple stupid question to ask
Pedit: We don't know that sq is dead and isn't alive to give a report on whoever tf they checked how do we know it was a town result or a scum result -_-

You didn't tell me why scum!Tywin does this to you in particular. You did the red flag was doing it to you when it was just done to you somewhere else.

[Cerberus v666]

Tywin trying to pin a nightkill on me of all people when scum did the same thing to me in a game we were both in is also a red flag

Why is this a red flag? Why is scum!Tywin more likely to do that to you than someone else

when he knows you'll be wary of such tactics?

@Maria: the bolded part of the above highlights the problem I have with your answer. Do you think Tywin would think using the the technique twice on the same person is more likely to work, even with the bolded as a consideration? How does that make any sense if so?

[Cerberus v666]

@Drixx: I'm not even bothering to keep up. Every time I read I red what's on the current page snd maybe the one prior or if I need context, and then look for my is to see the last time I posted and see if anyone said anything they want me to respond to.

Too much shiz going on, not worth it until the herd is thinned as it were. Kinda shitty I have the role I do to be honest, since I'm going to have to read today in its entirety once night comes.

@Maria: you're still not understanding me. Let's say you're tywin. You know someone in the game has had a tactic used on them before. Is your first instinct as scum to target that particular person with the same tactic? Do you think Tywin simply doesn't realize that you'll be especially alert to that sort of thing since it happened to you?

[Cerberus v666]

@Drixx: I'm not even bothering to keep up. Every time I read I red what's on the current page snd maybe the one prior or if I need context, and then look for my is to see the last time I posted and see if anyone said anything they want me to respond to.

Too much shiz going on, not worth it until the herd is thinned as it were. Kinda shitty I have the role I do to be honest, since I'm going to have to read today in its entirety once night comes.

@Maria: you're still not understanding me. Let's say you're tywin. You know someone in the game has had a tactic used on them before. Is your first instinct as scum to target that particular person with the same tactic? Do you think Tywin simply doesn't realize that you'll be especially alert to that sort of thing since it happened to you?

You had less difficultly in SU2 and that went faster?

I didn't say I couldn't keep up. I could. I said I'm not bothering to keep up. Plus, I was scum in SU2. That makes things a lot more interesting to me.

@Maria: you can't have it both ways. If he forgot, then you can't suggest that his prior knowledge led him to make that play because he believes it will work on you.

@all: Does Maria usually think things through?

[Cerberus v666]

Technically that doesn't prove it, but based on the last games setup, the multiple kills when we had a claimed vig shoot during the day, and the fact that the flavor of the explosive/bio kill fits in with an actual group, makes it likely.

[Cerberus v666]

Naw man, randoms our carry, didn't you know? He's also on V/LA, for what that's worth.

[Cerberus v666]

Whatever. Just tell me who we are lynching. As long as it's not Math, Cerb, Not Chara, rb, RachMarie, Not Fury or Shiro. I'm fine. I may have forgotten a name or two off this list but I doubt it.

wth ? what am I doing in the no lynch territory?!

It's the cookie connection. :p

Damnit randomly, didn't you know I've been arguing against the only "Tywin is scum" argument I've noticed, and now you have to show up suspecting them???

[Cerberus v666]

Did Titus ever flavor claim?

I'm not asking her too but i'm curious

No. I would rather not as I am hoping scum claim my flavor if boxed in.

@Gork, You've never seen me plotting night actions to drop bombs later. Look at Space Dandy if you care. I'll be all about secret communication and public revelations, basically boxing in.

This is dumb.

Really dumb.

Fake claims are always a thing. One could argue that the fake claims in Code Geass were questionable, but they weren't duplicates of existing flavors.

[Cerberus v666]

@Those considering my meta with teammates: the recently finished Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia is the only game in which I've ever defended a teammate on D1. I'm of the opinion that anyone who can't keep themselves from getting lynched D1, when the pressure is lowest, deserves to get lynched. I know defended my teammate in that game because I had just fished a very long game as solo scum after my team all went away, and didn't feel like dealing with a game by myself again.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi, are we leashing Gamma?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, if he is leashed for one night, and one night only, the kill (or choice of kills) will show a specific way they died. What happens if we don't leash him, only two kills go through, both are on town, and one still says 'biological/bomb' something or other? If he is town, he screws himself.

Kills have a particular flavor. I might get having gamma claim his murder flavor if he knows it. Beyond that, no

...

We already saw a kill from Gamma? It said someone drew out a gun and shot Nero...so, ya know, flavor seems to be killing with a gun.

Which is mostly useless information.

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Drixx, are you at a point of immersion in the game where you have opinions?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Drixx, are you at a point of immersion in the game where you have opinions?

I have some strong opinions that I probably shouldn't share. You might remember Space Dandy 2?

Opinions relevant to the game in terms of who you find likely to be scum or town. Associative with the flipped scum to clear individuals from being part of their team. What do your notes say that you're willing to share at this time?

[Cerberus v666]

Probably, but it's meaningless alignment wise. There are things in the situations referenced that do legitimately bother him and influence his(hell, our) interactions with Titus, and his character is such that those thoughts will be shared, and likely ahead of game significant thoughts he has.

Basically, a firm fuck you from me if you want to cast shade on him about thst.

I do want to hear more of his thoughts, thus my questions, but what we've seen so far us of no significance.

[Cerberus v666]

Perhaps if I didn't know him as well as I do it would. He simply doesn't give a fuck about our hounding and figures hell share what he has to say when he decides he will, and if we decide to rope him before that it's 1) our loss, and 2) another opportunity to make fun of a dumb town for doing a dumb thing in post game.

That's if he's town, of couse. If he's scum, it's still the same attitude. I don't believe his response to pressure will differ between alignments unfortunately, because no scum!drixx case exists, so he'll simply be able to handwave away everything. No tight spots exist which we can back him into.

He's just not a profitable conversation at this stage, until he starts contributing, and pushing him to contribute probably won't do much unail he's ready to contribute.

Drixx, please correct me if anything I've said represents you in a way you disagree with. I'm at work and this is a slapdash post, so my communication may be imprecise.

[Cerberus v666]

I actually think Titus laid out a town tell, so whatever weird plan she has going on I'm sort of ignoring for the moment.

If you think I am town, please work with me and give reads.

Ah yes. I agree with this. Fuck giving her reads though, as always, she knows better than to ask that of you. But you SHOULD stop talking about her if you believe she's town telling. Live in the universe where she's town and work from there.

Titus, working with you IS NOT the same as giving you what you want. Right now, by not spending the little time I have for this game on figuring out your alignment and setting it aside as a detail to be sorted out later, I'm working with you, even though I'm not following you.

Pedit: catch me up, sorry, who is the two person lynch pool? I can go check their iso myself tomorrow. In and of itself I don't see a huge degree of significance to it. I'd need to refresh my memory on seeing them in Shadowrun to decide how in character with their scum play it is and that's largely dependent on the reasoning I see them present.

[Cerberus v666]

And you felt the best use of your time was to comment on that?

Seriously Shiro? I know you can do better.

[Cerberus v666]

Nope, didn't miss it, just did it have time to look at those slots and decide if that pool made sense. I'm not fond of NF myself, and think we'd be better off with her slot gone. The thing that lings me about that particular pool without any in depth thought put onto it is the lack of originality. Tywin had moderate pressure placed on him today, and NF had fhe same both yesterday and today. I have a certain expectation that town!math is capable of finding new scumspects and digging deeper when there's more to find. Whether or not this observation has merit depends on who initiated the pressure on those slots. If it was math, or math was a major driver, I'm more inclined to think it's simply devotion to pet reads. If someone else pushed it, it looks more like piggybacking on am existing sentiment.

[Cerberus v666]

Nope, didn't miss it, just did it have time to look at those slots and decide if that pool made sense. I'm not fond of NF myself, and think we'd be better off with her slot gone. The thing that lings me about that particular pool without any in depth thought put onto it is the lack of originality. Tywin had moderate pressure placed on him today, and NF had fhe same both yesterday and today. I have a certain expectation that town!math is capable of finding new scumspects and digging deeper when there's more to find. Whether or not this observation has merit depends on who initiated the pressure on those slots. If it was math, or math was a major driver, I'm more inclined to think it's simply devotion to pet reads. If someone else pushed it, it looks more like piggybacking on am existing sentiment.

You're not bothered by Math having only two lynchable slots in a game this size. I am not questioning whether Math's belief is genuine, but whether Math is hunting for two teams.

That goes along with my expectation that town!math would be capable of continuing to dig deeper into other slots, but the absence of that isn't damning if it appears Math is just fixated on those slots, because that's a very bad town thing to do.

[Cerberus v666]

And you felt the best use of your time was to comment on that?

Seriously Shiro? I know you can do better.

aha, indeed but the thing I haven't read much other than the current page I am on each time I come here. It doesn't help that each time there are like 10 pages added or more. Actually cerb yea, I know you probably keep loads of notes and stuff, can you give me a brief overiew of major event and suspicions so I can enter the game from right now? This way tbh I will be able to semi participate and comment on events plsu start from page(Current) and move on from here.

Sorry, Drixx is the one who keeps actual notes, I just tend to retain things...unfortunately, I haven't been paying more attention than you in terms of what I've read, I've just been here more.

Titus can probably do it though, she's been paying attention the whole time.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus babe, do you find Ram Ram scummy? If so is it the treatment the slot is giving you?

Yes.

@Shiro/Cerb, I'll read over what you said in detail later tonight. I don't keep notes but I can give initial reads lists.

Is it because he isn't treating you as conf!town?

This is a surprisingly good question.

[Cerberus v666]

FYI all, FA just informed me that they won't be answering questions about whether or not a certain sentence qualifies as an alignment claim, and also that the truth or not of a post is determined based on their personal knowledge.

So. Guess I should just not use it on anything related to alignment. :/

[Cerberus v666]

The sample pm claim is sorta stupid. As in, it's stupid of anyone to think it means anything. I'll be back in a moment, going to check what the votes on him were like at the time of that claim.

[Cerberus v666]

Yep yeah, just looked at the post in question, clearly tongue in cheek, and he wasn't under nearly enough pressure to "use that claim because of didn't want to give out setup before he was lynched" as someone(someone being really dumb or scum, actually, if anyone knows who it was who said that I would appreciate the name of the ISO I should look at) said.

Like, if were going to rope him for stupid shit, and for being generally useless, why aren't we roping NF, who is actively attempting to confuse everyone REPEATEDLY?

[Cerberus v666]

So, give me a better reason than "he's lurking" or "he said a stupid thing". I believe there are other slots whose totality of play exhibits more or both of traits than he does.

[Cerberus v666]

Breakup the townblock starting to form and not vote Priscilla.
He knows he is going down so providing useful reads at that point is not helpful to his team. He is in "I know I am dying mode".

--Math

Were you the one who used this same argument to explain why scum!ram claims the sample role?

[Cerberus v666]

Who hasn't expressed an opinion on Ram? I'm willing to vote there, but only if I have a full gamut of stated positions to work with in the future. I view a lynch on him as only preferable to a no lynch, which makes it an information lynch, so let's maximize the information if we're going to go this route.

[Cerberus v666]

Ram, who would you honestly push other than yourself, besides me? I'm not gonna push myself, sorry, and you think I'm just associated with everyone right?

So why no push on msmith, or dave, or MV, or whomever? Gork won't work, so I think you know better than that. Still, MV or dave or msmith are SR enough to maybe work, so why haven't you pushed them? Like at all?

Because i wasn't interested that much in this game to go all out and push weak cases

So you'd rather be lynched yourself, a guaranteed hit to your team, than risk pushing town with a weak case?

[Cerberus v666]

I considered voting for priscilla, but random is apparently town reading the slot, so that's what kept me from voting there.

[Cerberus v666]

Ram, who would you honestly push other than yourself, besides me? I'm not gonna push myself, sorry, and you think I'm just associated with everyone right?

So why no push on msmith, or dave, or MV, or whomever? Gork won't work, so I think you know better than that. Still, MV or dave or msmith are SR enough to maybe work, so why haven't you pushed them? Like at all?

Because i wasn't interested that much in this game to go all out and push weak cases

So you'd rather be lynched yourself, a guaranteed hit to your team, than risk pushing town with a weak case?

a) how you know all they are town? Cause i don't
b) my team want my head, so they can have it, i will bring popcorn and watch drama on dawn of D3 for who was responsible for my ML

A weak case on someone is only weak because you can't establish sufficient reason to believe that individual is scum. If you're not willing to push someone with a weak case on them, it means you aren't convinced they're scum, which means you're more willing to let yourself be lynched, a 100% mislynch if you're town, than push a lynch that may reflect poorly on you in the future on someone who, from your perspective, has a less than 100% chance of being town.

Does it make sense when I phrase it that way?

[Cerberus v666]

I'm willing to talk Gork. I just haven't put the time in to propose good alternatives, with strong reasoning backing it up. I liked the point made about how the atrength of Priscillas convictions are far out of line with their degree of involvement, but I also trust randoms judgement. Is anything else even a consideration?

[Cerberus v666]

That's L-2, everyone.

[Cerberus v666]

Ram, a lynch on you could easily be prevented if the right voices put the time in. I believe it's time for your real claim though, since you're at l-1, and this post is intent to hammer the fuck out of you if you don't claim.

[Cerberus v666]

Thanks ram, I am, as I've said, not keeping my thumb on the pulse of this game. The extremely long time it's taken you to get to the point you're at, compared to, say, how quickly the wagon on Maria built, definitely indicates the ability to get a wagon going else where, or that you're scum, I guess.

I find it somewhat unlikely that scum have VT claims for their PRs though, unless they're ninjas or strongmen, so that's a minor point in your favor, and a point in favor of you as your teams designated bus(but that doesn't make sense with the glacial speed of your wagon).

Not comfortable with this overall. Who are our compromise voters on this wagon?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, if anyone has any statements to make for my lie detection , please do so now, include nothing that indicates alignment, and make only a simple statement in your post, because I lie detect the whole thing.

[Cerberus v666]

Gork or titus, please unvote for the short term, I want to make sure any statements may be heard.

Pedit: never fuckING mind.

Gamma please shoot smith. You don't fucking hammer while being clearly aware of my request.

[Cerberus v666]

Gork or titus, please unvote for the short term, I want to make sure any statements may be heard.

Pedit: never fuckING mind.

Gamma please shoot smith. You don't fucking hammer while being clearly aware of my request.

EVEN IF RAM FLIPS SCUM, SHOOT SMITH.

Had to clarify there. Also, was smith already on the wagon? If that wasn't hammer, sure, maybe don't shoot smith. Maybe do because fuck that.

[Cerberus v666]

Holy shit really Tywin? You're like fucking actually involved in this game, how did you not know that he had already claimed before this?

[Cerberus v666]

Pfft, I can't be bothered to play properly, and my normal proper play doesn't even involve analyzing wagon compositions until way late game so why would I know that? :p

Pedit: okay, 1) he wasn't hammered, and 2) the clear implication of your post is that he HAD waited to claim until then, when that isn't true and should be obvious to you given your level of involvement, the same way your involvement should have made it clear that it wasn't a hammer.

[Cerberus v666]

My unvote request still stands.

@smith: That won't work. It's only information you KNOW. So unless your role is specifically informed town, that will do nothing.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, I'm not going to try, I just want to make sure I have a catalogue of what people WANT lie detected, so I can see if there's anything of value there, before I dive through the day to find posts that lack subjective statements.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, I'm not going to try, I just want to make sure I have a catalogue of what people WANT lie detected, so I can see if there's anything of value there, before I dive through the day to find posts that lack subjective statements.

Why make it a vote? You're the lie detector. You have the most knowledge on what you can and cannot detect. Just find some clever way to learn things and force an answer.

??? I'm not making it a vote? Why do you think I am?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey gamma, can you please claim what your role name is, in a simple sentence, with nothing else in the post?

[Cerberus v666]

No gamma. That's not what I asked. In your role, it says

Name
Role
Alignment

I want you to state " I am a <Role>." With nothing else. And math, it's a fallback in case nothing else jumps out at me.

[Cerberus v666]

You could even say My role is listed as x in my role PM.

That might be clearer.

My issue is that claiming vigilante, if his FLAVOR is that of a vigilante, will read as true, even if it's a lie.

Pedit. Meh. I guess I'll take it.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, it depends on how trolly FB/FA want to be.

[Cerberus v666]

Lie detecting sucks. :/

[Cerberus v666]

You could even say My role is listed as x in my role PM.

That might be clearer.

My issue is that claiming vigilante, if his FLAVOR is that of a vigilante, will read as true, even if it's a lie.

Pedit. Meh. I guess I'll take it.

I mean, does your role potentially work as a flavor checker/cop? You're the one who knows your role; if it does work that way, you could have someone flavor claim at EOD and just check it that way. I guess you should probably talk about what sort of things that your role can and cannot check at this point? I've skimmed along and I don't think i especially understand it at that point *shrugs*

It works on anything the target knows, but will always return a truth result if 1) the moderator can't determine the truth of a statement, and 2) if the statement indirectly or directly relates to alignment. I have a question out to FA right now to learn if context matters, as in, if someone makes a statement that if proven to be a lie due to knowledge shared in game will confirm their alignment, will that count as indirectly relating to their alignment, and also whether or not I can check statements confirming/denying that someone performed a kill.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb you got what you need from me?

Maybe. FA said I can't check whether or not something triggers the indirect alignment claim thing or not, so it would be a gamble.

I guess before EOD, come up wiht a specific thing to say, and have the person you want repeat it. I don't think there's a value add in discussing the mechanics of it further since you're the only one who can discuss w mod about it. If it needs to be like the very last post of the day or something, make that clear too, and that no one should say anything after whenever your target says what you want to be said.

Just anything said in this day phase, and yeah, I don't want any sort of mechanical discussion. I want people to say things, in a simple, lie detectable form, which they feel could be useful to determine the truth of. Information they want communicated that would be helpful to have confirmation of. That's all I'm asking for. Once FA gets back to me, I might want to have EVERYONE say something like " I did not kill x or y on N1", to have a small chance of selecting the person who submitted the kill, but other than that and what I asked of Gamma I'm not going to be making any requests.

[Cerberus v666]

Hood creation is NAI. Only if someone lies about being a member of the crew, and Titus tries and fails to recruit them, and I lie detect that statement as well, would we gain any information

Pedit: Maths statement should work. Need to add the qualifier "only" somewhere in there though..

[Cerberus v666]

"If flavors x, y, z, exist in the game, I may invite them, and only them, to a PT with myself and others."

[Cerberus v666]

So Cerberus knows if someone is lying or not?

Mhm. With certain restrictions.

[Cerberus v666]

I really hope I make someone say something damning so scum have to waste their time shooting or blocking me.

[Cerberus v666]

If flavors Spike Spiegel, Faye Valentine, Jet Black, Ein, or Ed exist in the game, are alive and not me, I may invite them, and only them, to a bebop PT with myself and any others previously recruited still alive. I successfully recruited Faye Valentine Night 1, even though they flipped ascetic.

Sounds like a cult to me, a very limited cult to make sure it's balanced.

Can this die
Game is conf not bastard

....

What was the objective of that comment, Tywin? It's been long enough now that if it was a reaction test of some sort you'd have already said so. Since you haven't, the only purpose it seems to serve is as a means of casting shade on Titus+the bebop crew . The only problem with that conclusion is I don't think you're dumb enough to think it was possible for the game to have a cult, so, again: what was your objective with that comment?

I didn't say they were a cult you simpleton. I said it sounds like one. Seperate things entirely. I understand how you'd not understand though. You're very linear. You didn't even know what the term shark was, and others had to explain to you what neutral meant. I understand English isn't your primary language, but you're no good at understanding subtlety.

[Cerberus v666]

Fixed!

If flavors Spike Spiegel, Faye Valentine, Jet Black, Ein, or Ed exist in the game, are alive and not me, I may invite them, and only them, to a bebop PT with myself and any others previously recruited still alive. I successfully recruited Faye Valentine Night 1, even though they flipped ascetic.

Sounds like a cult to me, a very limited cult to make sure it's balanced.

Can this die
Game is conf not bastard

I didn't say they were a cult you simpleton. I said it sounds like one. Seperate things entirely. I understand how you'd not understand though. You're very linear. You didn't even know what the term shark was, and others had to explain to you what neutral meant. I understand English isn't your primary language, but you're no good at understanding subtlety.

....

What was the objective of that comment, Tywin? It's been long enough now that if it was a reaction test of some sort you'd have already said so. Since you haven't, the only purpose it seems to serve is as a means of casting shade on Titus+the bebop crew . The only problem with that conclusion is I don't think you're dumb enough to think it was possible for the game to have a cult, so, again: what was your objective with that comment?

[Cerberus v666]

cerb i see you online.
youve got an hour to object to a hammer if you need more time.

No, the conversation has moved away from my ability and I have some candidates in mind already. Not hammering on principle though(unless we get to like an hour left blah blah).

[Cerberus v666]

Either Titus isn't lying, or something about the claim she made was alignment indicative. I was given the impression that a flavor claim such as Faye Valentine would be considered alignment indicative, so unfortunately I can't be certain that recruiting specifically those flavors wasn't considered alignment indicative. I don't believe it should have been, because even after receiving that result I find it quite plausible that she's a scum slot that was given that power, but I'm having difficulty considering a flavor justification for that particular ability anywhere in the canon.

So eh, I guess Titus is probably town? Sorry, I wasn't going to waste it on that(for the same reason I chose to not use it on Gamma's claim) because I viewed the act of making those statements as AI enough, but I didn't get to comb through the game like I intended to in order to find something better. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Also, good job whoever prevented the kill(s), unless of course you failed to also prevent a poison kill or something, in which case decent job, but not great. Almost makes up for you guys fucking up and mislynching Ram out of sheer apathy. Not that I can say much, I failed to defend him out of sheer apathy. *shrug*

pedit: The last one she made, about her full role and which included her recruiting faye on N1 even though she's ascetic.

[Cerberus v666]

If flavors Spike Spiegel, Faye Valentine, Jet Black, Ein, or Ed exist in the game, are alive and not me, I may invite them, and only them, to a bebop PT with myself and any others previously recruited still alive. I successfully recruited Faye Valentine Night 1, even though they flipped ascetic.

This post returned a true result, and is thus true unless it is alignment indicative(or Titus is a universal Godfather of some sort)

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I'm sorta inclined to think it *might* be worthwhile to have whoever caused the effects preventing *both* kills to claim now, IF those claims clear/damn individuals. Maybe it's not worth it, the game is still huge and chances are decent that they won't be shot/their information won't be lost, but still...actually, eh, never mind. Multiball. I'm dumb. Doc saves don't mean anything. And BP are a thing, blah blah.

Just ignore me. I was busy being stupid for a moment there.

pedit: Glad to see that even when I'm so devastatingly obviously town people are still paranoid enough to waste NA's on me. ^^

Why are you telling us a gunsmith guilty exists if you don't intend to share it at this time? You're doing a bad job of extracting tells and associatives by announcing in advance that there's a slot you can try to get information out of....Also, umm. Hmm. Only had one night of recruiting, since Faye died and you confirmed you did attempt to invite her, so...that's kinda telling us too much too. Bah.

[Cerberus v666]

If I ever die and random midget claims some bullshit, remember this moment and kill him.

Man, rando's town unless he's not.

^^

Titus, you're doing such a good job of hunting for me though. Saves me all the trouble. Mafia's hard work ya know.

pedit: Whemestar, unless you're a miller who didn't claim D1, it doesn't matter. And if you ARE a miller who didn't claim D1, I hate your dumb mistake for causing the mislynch that will surely happen.

Oh wait. Actually. Did, Whemestar, did you even read your predecessors ISO? Carnelian claimed miller super early on D1 iirc, so...I don't know why anyone would have visited you with any ability. She didn't clarify if it was a universal miller or just an alignment miller, but yeah...

[Cerberus v666]

Oh shit. She did. Touche.

Wheme, I apologize for my response. I didn't realize you were making a cogent point.

To be fair though, I don't think it's probable that Carnelian would open a game with a fake miller claim(though the sheer size of this one might make her believe she could get away with it), so it's still unlikely that checking you is optimal.

Also, what if you're a miller with a gun?

pedit: Insomniacs, it's pretty obvious. Either Titus can invite MORE than one per night, or she invited MariaR last night, and MariaR had checked me on N1(BTW, MariaR, wtf would you check me? Or whoever else checked me?). Or she can invite people during more phases than just at night.

pedit: Wheme, please do. We'll get to have the pleasure of an obvious TVT to shit all over this thread some more(one member of which has a semi-inno on them from a third party, that was corroborated by yet another individual, requiring that a member of the circle be a godfather, OR that we're all scum together on a crazy gambit, if we're not all town together).

[Cerberus v666]

Doesn't gunsmith check if someone has Gun or doesn't have gun

Oh wait I see the miller page and normal miller gives inno for GS. For some reason I thought it was a universal guilty role. Interesting.

So I'm right gunsmith checking me is optimal

In a vacuum, yes. With context. it's a shit play.

[Cerberus v666]

While I am sure my mason buddy loves the advice, I think we have the gunsmith targeting down. Let's rip on me and tell me where I went wrong yesterday.

You lynched someone who was likely town and ignored me when I told you they were likely town. *shrug*

Or maybe you just didn't notice me say that.

[Cerberus v666]

I still want NF dead. I wanted her dead yesterday but lacked the fire to do as I said I would and kill her dead. I don't have a reason for it though, other than finding her irritating and anti-town.

[Cerberus v666]

Vote Count 1.05

Siblings Quarrel (L-15): Mhsmith0, Cerebrus v666
Gamma Emerald (L-15): Carnelian, Insomniacs
Cerberus v666 (L-16) : Tarkus
Not Fury (L-10) : rb, Gamma Emerald, RachMarie, Scott and Ramona, Titus, Almost50, Ramcius
rb (L-16): Siblings Quarrel
Master Vampire (L-16): DanelerH
RachMarie (L-15): Nero Cain, Randomidget
Kidamn (L-16): TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Ramcius (L-14): Wall, Not Fury, Not Chara
Chairman Doggo (L-16): Tywin Lannister,
Tarkus (L-15): PeregrineV, Chariman Doggo

Not Voting (9): Shiro, Majiffy, Master Vampire, ZZZX, Socrates, GinghamDog, SlySly, Kidamn, Davesaz

With 32 players alive it takes 17 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-05-18 21:10:00)

Note:

Vote Count 1.06

Siblings Quarrel (L-15): Mhsmith0, Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald (L-9): Carnelian, Insomniacs, rb, Tywin Lannister, Master Vampire, Wall, Not Fury, SlySly
Cerberus v666 (L-16) : Tarkus
Not Fury (L-14) : Scott and Ramona, Titus, Almost50,
Master Vampire (L-16): DanelerH
RachMarie (L-16): Randomidget,
Kidamn (L-15): TheRealGin-N-Tonic, RachMarie
Ramcius (L-16): Not Chara,
Tarkus (L-16): PeregrineV,
Scott and Ramona (L-16): Siblings Quarrel
Tywin Lannister (): Ramcius, Chairman Doggo, Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (8): Shiro, Majiffy, ZZZX, Socrates, Hikari, Kidamn, Davesaz, Cerebrus v666

With 32 players alive it takes 17 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-05-18 21:10:00)

Note: Majiffy has requested replacement.

What happened to cause this shift on D1?

[Cerberus v666]

The fact that Titus out of one side of her mouth said to give me time because I improve as the game goes on and I get my bearings, but hasn't checked me. Something's not right there. I mean ... we're friends, but we also fight like almost every game we play together.

I sincerely cannot imagine a world where Titus defends me but doesn't make sure I get mechanically cleared.

Beware. One faction in multi-ball could certainly represent themselves as a "masonry" and give out all kinds of bullshit.

Pfft. I'd have to be part of that circus. Do you seriously think that's a plan I'd support, or that I'd be this lazy in that situation? *shrug*

Also, eh. We don't know when her mason friend was recruited(as in, if they could talk last night or not)....so your assumption that Titus had the opportunity to involve herself in the targeting is fundamentally flawed.

[Cerberus v666]

ALSO.

Also.

Do you seriously think Titus would involve other members of her team in a fake masonry situation, both drawing attention to their members and increasing the chance of crossfire, while guaranteeing the other members all die as soon as she flips as scum?

VOTE: Priscilla

Sure.

[Cerberus v666]

ALSO.

Also.

Do you seriously think Titus would involve other members of her team in a fake masonry situation, both drawing attention to their members and increasing the chance of crossfire, while guaranteeing the other members all die as soon as she flips as scum?

VOTE: Priscilla

Sure.

No.

I think Titus would claim all the flavors of the people in the bebop hood crew if she herself was in that hood to start with. There was a scum in the bebop hood to start with. Titus is on thin ice until I see someone flip the thing that could be instead of what is painfully obvious a gunsmith crumb. In other words until I see an explanation it is all sketchy to me.

--Math

umm.


What?

You are not making sense. Titus did claim the flavors of everyone who could possible be in the hood....and it's CONFIRMED(or as confirmed as my lie detector can get) that Titus is part of the hood which is created.

Titus, explain the crumb. Seriously. I don't want to have to deal with math hitting this mental block everytime they consider you, and I know that they will. It will be this point that they'll refuse to let go of.

[Cerberus v666]

Mmm. Is it optimal now to have all the bebop members ano ounce themselves? The most threatening one is known, as is rhe individual who can connect them all, having all of them announcs themselves sorta forces scum to just kill titus(or attempt to) to prevent the consolidation of power.

Of course, it's possible that the other scum team doesn't have any guns, given that they killed with bio weapons/explosives...

[Cerberus v666]

I still want NF dead. I wanted her dead yesterday but lacked the fire to do as I said I would and kill her dead. I don't have a reason for it though, other than finding her irritating and anti-town.

Yep, lynch the guy who said Ramcius was town and both of the scum were scum and SQ+ doggo were town.

Like it or not little bitch, but I'm better than you <3

Thats...not relevant? Or true, most likely, considering the epically low level of my involvement and expectation of the town flip on all the same people you seem to care about, and the fact that I don't actually look for scum in my games....

Pedit: holy shit there's a nonzero chance drixx is scum. :/ that like...actually felt contrived. It hit all the talking points, but seemed unnatural. Im probably wrong, but fuck.

[Cerberus v666]

@Drixx: sorry, you ninjaed me. The contrived post was the one about Titus, with the callbacks to games nobody wants to keep hearing about, not the one about me.

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, just tell me straight up if I'm the lynch or not for today. If I am, then here ends my participation.

I will gladly lynch her for this alone.

Why Priscilla and not this Math?