Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Nancy Drew 39]

We can make a deal. Everyone after this day phase who can't read me must type "I solemnly swear I cannot read the Almight Emperor Flavor". Scum, you don't have to say this, you know I'm town, so youre exempt, you can vote me.

Fuck this noise. I already know where the shortcoming in my read on you would be if you’re town, so I refuse to engage is such a debasing piece of horseshit as this. You should also be able to comprehend what makes you so problematic here in that sort of situation.

Like, you have been given chance upon chance to shape the fuck up and yet you keep OMGUSing, pushing awful WIFOM angles, and avoiding any sort of admittance you MIGHT have fucked up. That’s not town play at this point, full stop.

Does this count?

They're not personal attacks though.

If you could find a scumgame of Gamma making personal atracks it would obviously be better. Also hadn’t 5uffering already claimed vanilla cop at this point, so that could also possibly explain it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think clidd/Sarah are SvS, clidd's been pushing Sarah for a while now as the deepwolf which doesn't really seem smart when it's just the two of them left and clidd is in the PoE.

Yeah good point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'd go for KidAm here but what's the point of even playing in this setup, especially when trying to solve and getting it right is apparently scum indicative. hey nancy, let me know if you want to go kidam

Both Sarah and Clidd have KidAmn in their PoE. Interesting.

I 100% don’t want to rush this day, so no insta hammers please.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Coming from ANYONE but you. that post would make me wonder.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm legit begging here. Can we please not do 30+ pages a day?

just vote one of marci and clidd and then wait for my update in the mason PT

-S

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just think you're scum for saying Pink Ball is town when Pink Ball is doing stuff that is very comfortably in his scum range. Is that a good reason to scumread you? Honestly, probably not! It could even be actively terrible. But resolving your slot will at the very least get Noraa's voice out of the back of my mind, so there's that

The usefulness of this read has been nerfed because of scum bus driver.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The vast majority of both flipped scum involve them heavily defending Gamma. I’m wondering if we should lim Kidamn.

I wonder if Ircher hardpushed Dunn as non-exstent strongman so they’d die before KidAmn? Clearly bus driver is scumteam’s MVP.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He's the votecount right now? So I don't fuck up again by voting Sarah

How's*

I don’t know, Alisae has yet to post one.

@mod

I’m trying to decide between Saran and Kidamn. Both flipped scum really go all out to defend that slot and if KidAmn/Gamma is bus driver, it would definitely make sense. Gamma was town bus driver in CoD if that’s at all relevant.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sara is e-2. Me, Dunn and Pyro voting.

Can you please unvote for now? Or someone? Thanks, I don’t want to rush this.

VOTE: KidAmn

Associatives with Gamma are through the roof but

STILL DON’T WANT To RUSH THIS.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Of course @Dunn, you should also take into account the context of that Gamma claim. Iirc. it happened on D2, so Gamma might have just claimed that for survival reasons since that’s when I initially pushed him for the claim.

But they still wouldn't know to claim even-night unless that was just a coincidence

UNVOTE:

True but even if it is Sarah, who is her buddy then? PB is spewed town by VCA and Pyro says he doesn’t think Sarah and Clidd are SvS, so who is Sarah’s buddy if not KidAmn?

Pyro says he doesn’t want to try to figure this out now but why not? Why not try to figure out who the last two scum are whether or not Sarah is one?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like viewtopic.php?p=12608522#p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

Even this readslist points to Sarah/Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

VCA, with queen Nancy. Lol

Well, we’re obviously not going to trust YOU with that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@kanna I'm not pushing clidd, I don't know where did you get that impression.

If you’re scum, you’ve brilliantly orchestrated the VCs to make it look like your buddies were hard bussing your slot the entire game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Kanna must have been referring to Saudade, @PB.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

VCA, with queen Nancy. Lol

Actual fact isn’t exactly the same thing as VCA.

Everyone was also pushing Toog yesterday BM prior to his miselim and oh yeah 5uffering before we avoided narrowly miseliming him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

VCA, with queen Nancy. Lol

Actual fact isn’t exactly the same thing as VCA.

Everyone was also pushing Toog yesterday BM prior to his miselim and oh yeah 5uffering before we avoided narrowly miseliming him.

Oh and War and Peace. I don’t recall whether or not you commented on their wagon or not but I definitely don’t recall you saying a damn thing about any of the prior flipped town wagons.

[Nancy Drew 39]

this setup means that trying to scumhunt is pro scum right now. change my mind

UNVOTE: W&P

sorry haven't read in a while
not been feeling mafia AT ALL this past week and it's probably time for a break after this one
this game especially though is pretty demotivating
Nancy people who know how to read me and are good at reading me have repeatedly told you i'm town

could you maybe trust their judgement rather than pushing for me simply because i'm a VT?

there's nothing more demotivating than being pushed because of mech i have no control over

the only other reason i saw you give was you didn't like my reaction to the whole Morning ordeal
she herself has informed you that my reaction was perfectly normal
and that i know her tells and it's not weird at all that i know for a fact that she's town here

i only skimmed the stuff since i last posted so i may have missed questions or whatever
i'll TRY and get myself back into this later
maybe

oh and i still think War and Peace is scum who we should actually be killing today

you getting pushed by mech arguments that 'Olaf must be scum because one of the people in that group must be scum' which i'm arguing against based on you dropping some of your towntells you say?
not

exactly

the same scenario this time, but i'm still getting flashbacks

...flashbacks to a time where Olaf was good and people were saying they were bad because they were in a hood that people were sure couldn't be all town that we were both in that was all town and i was saying noooo Olaf is good... look, they're even doing

their trust tell

one of their town tells

@Sarah, how is attempting to scumhunt ever proscum?

@Sarah, how is attempting to scumhunt ever proscum?

Green scum!

PR fishing happens!

If no one lied, I know all your PRs.

Hmmm. . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

My message--! it failed!!!

I know who was attacked and switched with DKKoba as my message never reached them. but does this give us any clues? Will be back later

Now we know the bus driver has acted at least three times and to be honest my hopes for it being gated somehow are dwindling

It still matters because scum may have thought the vig was even night, so it could tell us something

Whoa, yeah definitely right about bus driver being ungated.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I thought Nancy was most likely lying when she said that tbh, it didn't feel genuine

[Nancy Drew 39]

Morning sent me a compilation of her killing rodents with shotguns and flamethrowers 2 nights ago which was kinda sus tbh. I don't get why she'd try and demoralise me like that?

It's a good thing she towntold like 10 times this game so I know she's town

人(-ω-*) im sorrii. at least u knew it had to be me without a doubt

I don't think clidd/Sarah are SvS, clidd's been pushing Sarah for a while now as the deepwolf which doesn't really seem smart when it's just the two of them left and clidd is in the PoE.

it has seemed to me like Sara has been going down for a while now, at least since, hm, when she got brought up the other day and got frustrated. expressing that suspicion wasn't really going to get Sara killed before Toog, either

(This still could be town-indictative for clidd i havent reviewed this enough myself yet)

I want to lean against it being clidd just based off what i've seen of his play but i really start to run out of suspects

Who did the bus driver switch your message to Koba with?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Tweetie, what target was Koba switched with?

@KidAmn, why were you the only one who’s target did not get switched with a specific person? Both Koba and nox Tweetie have stated this but you did not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So for instance, he would not receive a message saying "you have successfully rolestopped x"

Dkkoba did get a message like that, which is how they caught it

But why did Tweetie because she and Koba aren’t protectives?

[Nancy Drew 39]

And i just never heard back on my letter!

I was trying to hit a driven target on purpose, by the way, so i made the signal very clear this time: "Claim that you received this". So, no way I missed it or a crumb was messed up or anything

Could wait to judge reactions or something but tbh doesn't feel worth it over just starting to talk about it immediately..

DKKoba and SaraharaS were bus driven last night

Fascinating. This game is wild.

[Nancy Drew 39]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

DK's dead, does that mean that I got MY VERY OWN POST?

Because my tired ass brain still had DK in the list for some reason

hell yeah you do brother

IT'S PEANUT BUTTE-PINK BALL TIME also Saudade I guess]I wanted to start with Saudade and then I realised that I got up to about 20 posts from the start of their ISO, all of which I wanted to respond to with "why the fuck are you like this"

So we'll go with the Abridged What The Fuck Dude

VOTE: italiano
thanks for the scum claim friend

why am i so good at this game somebody hold me

In response to Italiano's perfectly reasonable #726. To these posts I say: What The Fuck, Dude.

Let’s not rush this people. I will consult with ALL of my masons/Miss Cleo and figure out the optimal fade. BM got miselimed last game, so how is he playing differently this time?

Unless BM is a mason, he is for sure scum Nancy. I promise you.

this is such a scum claim
where does this confidence come from

Because no townie has been way too confident about a SR ever? To this post, I say: What The Fuck, Dude.

I'm making my way

downtown, walking fast, faces pass and I'm homebound

through this ISO and I can confidently say I would have wanted to lynch Saudade if we had been in this game together. There's just so much posting that either demonstrates a lack of intent to gamesolve, an intent to shit the thread up, or both

Titus would never pick me btw

can we move on from talking about battle mage, its anti town at this point

and #1459 which I will spare you having to read because it's just several hundred Fey votes - Like, come on. Why The Fuck, Dude.

god yknow what I can't. I refuse to read Saudade. What the fuck. Skipping to PB.

Pink Ball replaces Saudade

\o/

Hey <3

I've been reading the game through your ISO; I thought Saudade was scum and I was ready to pocket you, but I was wrong so let's work together!

That being said: hello everyone, I'm Pink Ball. Remember the name

PB, if you are a town, I believe it will be easy for you to show.

I have high expectations of your play here.

I know!

Woof, what an intro. Unironically feels too off to be something sucm would post though.

Yeah but you give useful info to the scumteam too

So what would you have me do then? I really really don’t want a repeat of the Battle Mage situation and having suspicious slots claim tells you a helluva lot wrt NKs. In FL vs Hectic, scum!Xtoxm was an aesetic PR who scum never wanted to kill and scum kept making all of these rather strange kills like FB/unwnd to throw us off Xtoxm’s track.

Just wait until the player is in a position were claiming is more valuable? I don't know, asking someone to claim when they're not under pressure seems counterproductive

I think your best towngames are when you rely in reading interactions and motivations instead of sticking to meta and past games

Krazy, what you're doing is AtE too.

Let's do this right now:

Gamma and Nancy, shut up for fucks sake, you're both clearly over reacting at some stupid shit. Noraa was straight-up not having a good time, period. No one in particular's fault and everyone's at the same time, so don't take it personally, Nancy. Pointing fingers is stupid, and that's what you did Gamma. That's it, it's not a big deal. Now shhhh. Papa Ball loves you both.

Krazy and co. who are pushing the "let's end the day because of toxicity" rethoric: I'm in no position to tell you to deal with it 'cause I only repped in a few days ago and haven't put any effort whatsoever since then, but I think there are other effective ways of dealing with toxicity that doesn't require playing against your reads aka "let's just eliminate 5uffering even if he's town it's the best thing we can do". No, you're tired, you're frustrated, but that doesn't make that statement true.

I'm just using an example here, that applies to anyone, not only 5uffering, 'cause that being said, I do think it's a liable elimination at this point. His frustration seems legit and that's a problem 'cause it gets foggy and difficult to determine if the frustration comes from a town mindset where he can't understand why's in the position he's at right now, or from a scum mindset with a huge ego that can't believe this fucking town is getting him eliminated for the stupidest reasons. The way 5uffering treats everyone makes me believe the latter, where he challenges everyone to take a stance on him with worthy arguments, like dude, maybe you're scummier than you think and we don't need big arguments to be right about you? I'm talking to myself here, of course, but I digress. My point is, along with some of his null reads that seemed to come from scum trying to position future valid pushes inside of a promising forming town bloc, his frustration looks like scum.

As I said, however, trying to read someone out of their frustration is a shot in the dark. No, it's better than that, but in my case, I think I can do better. So I do need some time to adjust and see who I want eliminated. I promise to everyone who's feeling tired, who deserves a break from this game and wants to end the day asap... Give me 24 hours from now. In the meantime just chill, if you want the day to end, don't post anything for 24 hours if you want. I'm not saying I'll change the game's course or give you a 360 turn, but since it's me who we are talking about, there's a chance that it does happen that 'cause I'm pretty good at this. If after 24 hours I haven't done my thing, I'll join you on your crusade of ending the day, since I would have failed you and the game itself.

Papa Ball loves you all.

Papa Ball can stay.

#4527 echoes a lot of my thoughts on Sara - it's spewing a lil in what we know now is the wrong way and on me which I know is the wrong way, but it's clear, well reasoned gamesolve so plus points
Ditto #4608 on Pyro

Just one more thing: I said that if REK flipped scum, S&W where probably partners. I didn't say they're both the same alignment; if REK is town, S&W could still be scum and visceversa

99% sure this post never comes out of PB-scum especially considering the REK flip

One thing interests me is that literally no one is defending W & P. If W & P are scum, where are their buddies?

You can't keep using this as a valid argument against unflipped slots. Both Olaf and me defended Italiano and he was town. You said the same thing about REK and KRAZY WAS DEFENDING THEM.

Yup, yupyupyup.

Generally strong townvibes from PB that mostly erase my burning hatred of Saudade.

Final reads, town to scum:
KidAmn - I got this sick green role PM yo
Dunn - as previously stated, if I'm pocketed here G fuckin G
PB - townread with very slight caveats largely based on how much I would have wanted to hammer Saudade into the GROUND
MT - townread with mild caveats
Fey - Ditto from MT
Starcrossed - townlean, I guess? I don't see it, but enough people seem to be set on it? IDFK.
Pyro/Olaf/Pyro - townlean with heavy caveats
clidd - I can't sort this
Sara - VOTE: SaraharaS enough said

@KidAmn, why were you the only one who’s target did not get switched with a specific person? Both Koba and nox Tweetie have stated this but you did not.

Rolestopper/Doctor don't get messages/feedback when targeting other people

This, basically. I submit a target, I don't get a "you successfully targeted X" or w/e.[/quote][/spoiler]

Yes, had Saudade not repped out, I probably would have policy’d him, so thank freaking God he did and PB replaced him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So for instance, he would not receive a message saying "you have successfully rolestopped x"

Dkkoba did get a message like that, which is how they caught it

But why did Tweetie because she and Koba aren’t protectives?

Tweetie sends a message to somebody and then they soft in thread that they received the message based on what was in her message

She does not receive a message from the mod telling her who she targeted

No, I think that there must be a loud modifier with investigatives because both of them had the exact same thing happen to them.

It’s too bad, I wanted to see if that would happen to you as well but if you’re correct about protectives NOT getting that same result, then

I think you and Tweetie should 100% be on Starcrossed tonight because they are the likely target based off of Titus’ posts and we can find out post-flip who they were bus drove with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I can be on Starcrossed tonight

Tweetie needs to be too (on Starcrossed), so we can catch bus driver if we miss today.

@Tweetie

[Nancy Drew 39]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

i'm voting clidd right now. ideally we'd vote them off today. why the caps... you don't need to shout... it's scary

clidd is still framing me being v.sus of him as weird when there's v.likely scum in the vanillas and he accepts that and i've made it clear that i TR the vanillas apart from clidd...

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

Sorry? Not intended to be viewed as “shouting”, rather as emphasis. I rarely yell at anyone who isn’t actually yelling at me first.

The problem is that Clidd actually looks a lot better from Krazy interactions than YOU (still not shouting) do.

Why would you think Titus has a “no protectives” rule? If you’re seriously suggesting that both Dunn/KidAmn are scum with a one shot scum dayvig, role cop and bus driver - not to mention a compulsive town vanillaizer - then you’re suggesting that all town has is a messenger/checker + 1 shot night skipper + vanilla cop + 1 shot vig. I think that would be pretty broken and I have more faith in the mod than that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I can be on Starcrossed tonight

Tweetie needs to be too (on Starcrossed), so we can catch bus driver if we miss today.

@Tweetie

If I message Star and they are bus driven, it won't tell me who they were bus driven with. If they die, I won't even be able to know if they were bus driven or not

But you did with Koba, so why would Starcrossed be any different? I’m basing this on either Star or you being the likely kill tonight and because every single NK so far has been bus driven.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I think that there must be a loud modifier with investigatives because both of them had the exact same thing happen to them.

What?

It’s kind’ve atypical for either Koba or you to have been given the bus driver’s target’s identity.

[Nancy Drew 39]

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

town wouldnt have a single decent PR in that case, and scum is... well.... *that* team

+1

Exactly, I think Titus’ rule was probably no loyal/disloyal based on the fact that no one has either flipped/claimed that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

I didn’t sanction Toog and wasn’t exactly keen on BM. Only lim I enthusiastically endorsed was W & P, however I did push for Italiano.

[Nancy Drew 39]

True but even if it is Sarah, who is her buddy then?

I don't know, I don't really have a second scumread so I should look into things more today

I agree that there is at least 1 scum in the vt claims here

Starcrossed can't be scum
Tweetie can't be bus driver on account of her role being confirmable, and is also probably town
Fey is likely town by role and play

So that is who we shouldn't elim for sure IMO

And then:

Pyro - I thought he's been townie and I'm sure fey is better at reading him than I am and she says town for sure so I'll respect that
Kidamn - I don't get how they'd fit in what seems like the perfect claim as scum on day 2 - am I missing something

Pink Ball - He's felt towny and people brought up gamma and the replace out
Clidd - Was getting pushed by scum and is being pushed by sarahara now

Sarahara - People have pointed out that her reads changed in a weird way (which could have been a mason tell so I initially ignored), and the poe is shrinking so this feels likely scum unless I'm missing something big

when did my reads weirdly change? during my 120 page catchup is the only time i can remember people mentioning my reads changing (pyro talking about me on W&P)... and does 'has read another 20-30 pages of game' not seem like a perfectly ridiculously good reason for my reads to shift around a little?

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

see my consistent-across-multiple-games thoughts on how we should be acting. i spent the entirety of yesterday worrying if W&P was a mason and wondering if pushing them was going to get a mason killed because i wasn't sure if your reluctance to vote them when me and olaf and fey were vibing on the slot being scum and you were giving vibes that made me feel like they could be a mason so i didn't want to make it too obvious if you were trying to hint to back off

did i mention that i'm not the biggest fan of this style of setup...

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Coming from ANYONE but you. that post would make me wonder.

Everyone is pushing me. Hmm.

I don’t understand why anyone would seriously think W & P were masons after I pushed them to outright claim and their claim was gunsmith?

I can understand that on D1 but I think that should have been pretty obviously not by D2.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My current PoE is you/KidAmn/Clidd. I have stronger reasons to be tr everyone else and as long as both scums are in that PoE, we win.

So fypov, do you agree with this? Minus you obviously.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 5

• War and Peace
  ------- 6 ( Pyro(11), Fey(47), Sherlock and Watson(20), Morty and Rick(6), Dunnstral(46), Starcrossed(5) )
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 2 ( ItalianoVD(1), Gamma Emerald(5) )
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 2 ( Rogue Squadron(1), War and Peace(1), Titus(1) )
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 2 ( Batsunami(31), Battle Mage(19) )
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 1 ( Charlie and Snoopy(1) )
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Saudade
  ------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Rogue Squadron
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Battle Mage
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Pyro
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Charlie and Snoopy
  -- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 7 ( SaraharaS(0), Clidd(0), Toogeloo(7), Saudade(0), Nancy Drew 39(46) )

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-25 20:01:00)

I think this is all town. Dunn only unvoted because he really thought W & P were masons

[Nancy Drew 39]

Basically, I have very strong reasons to think that Fey, Tweetie, Starcrossed, Dunn, PB, Pyro are all town. Hence my PoE.

Why you look worse than Clidd is because of Krazy interactions. But you 3 are the designated lims. It’s just the order I’m not sure of yet.

I need to re-ISO Krazy because iirc, he was fine with limming Clidd iirc?

[Nancy Drew 39]

except Sherlock ^

Yes obviously.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Kidamn why did you RS Dunn when Koba was the obvious kill target?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy. Please, please read what Sarah said about Clidd.

Bussing/shading when YOU don’t want to elim Clidd means Sherlock can push there without consequence.

Can you/Sarah please summarize this for me? Thanks. <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

But you did with Koba, so why would Starcrossed be any different? I’m basing this on either Star or you being the likely kill tonight and because every single NK so far has been bus driven.

No, I messaged Sara who got bus driven with DKKoba. i know this because Sara did not respond to my message

Had I messaged DKKoba, then Sara (if scum) wouldn't say anything, and then I would have no idea whether or not DK got driven

My messages will be most powerful if I withhold who I targetted or am going to target

Oh that’s really interesting but I guess same difference.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I think that there must be a loud modifier with investigatives because both of them had the exact same thing happen to them.

What?

It’s kind’ve atypical for either Koba or you to have been given the bus driver’s target’s identity.

I wasn't. i deduced it from Sara not responding to my message

And DKKoba was simply told who they investigated. [I.e. "Toogeloo is vanilla!"]. I do not receive feedback in the form of moderator feedback on my role. Everything has to do with my target signalling to me in thread (sometimes secretly) that they received the message.

N2 - Starcrossed, success
N3 - Olaf, success
N4 - SaraharaS, failure

Loud modifier means that I inform my target that I visited them, but I'm not loud and neither was DKKoba. The bus driver also isn't loud cause then Toogeloo and SaraharaS would know the bus drivers identity

Yeah right makes sense because switching Sarah with Koba would obviously have prevented that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sherlock's associations with clidd are not strong enough to clear clidd alone especially given how scum would have likely been trying to prop Sherlock up, imagine a widely townread 1-shot dayvig, would have been great

Combine that with how clidd now has a coin flip's chance of being the goon, as well as how Sherlock could have reasonably expected to get away with pressuring clidd w/o him dying. I need more reasons to TR him than that (i said this earlier today ik, and obviously Fey has been talking about it a ton, so apologies if i missed other reasons to TR clidd i'll find them eventually)

Well, I’d definitely like to hear more about it and it would also resolve the whole “I need to get Noraa out of [his] head” thing as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Kidamn why did you RS Dunn when Koba was the obvious kill target?

Panic and/or idiocy, take your pick.

Why panic? And sorry but that’s not really a great answer. I don’t think Dunn was ever in any real danger of being the NK. Scum always target outed cops BEFORE outed protectives.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah there's no other way my message doesn't reach Sara as far as I can think of. Even if scum has a fourth PR, it doesnt make any sense to interfere with me given the only way i would have noticed is if i messaged exactly sara and even then it's not a huge deal to them

unfortunately it doesnt give me many clues as to the driven player's alignment since this drive follows the same logic as the Toog drive as far as I can tell.

Scum has consistently bus drove the NK: Morty & Rick, REK, Koba.

But you’re right, it doesn’t actually tell us anything. I kind’ve like Sarah saying she’s okay with my PoE because as scum, she’d absolutely no she’s doomed.

I’m thinking that KidAmn has the best chance of being bus driver. However, we now know that vig was only a one shot, so that would definitely be telling after tonight.

But I would really like to hear more from Fey/Sarah or anyone else for that matter, wrt Clidd.

@Clidd, you is currently in your PoE?
@KidAmn, same question.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is have this in mind rn:

{Star} {Fey} {Pink Ball}
{Morning}
{Dunnstral}
{Pyro}

-

{Kid}
{SaraharaS}

Is this still your current solve?

[Nancy Drew 39]

It doesn't bother me if the elimination is on W/P today, although I won't be part of the wagon.

@Clidd, why did you say this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hi Nancy! I have my current solve.

Have you figured out the meaning of green scum?

Anyone you think could be a hypothetical mason?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy was hardpushing Clidd. I really don’t see why he’d do that if Clidd was a buddy. Interactions look the absolute worst with Gamma however.

Both flipped scum spend a great deal of time defending that slot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also in two bus drives KidAmn has never been switched. I just find myself having a lot of trouble believing his posts are sincere.

Whether or not Sarah is scum or Krazy did a brilliant job of distancing Clidd I don’t know but bus drive switch with Sarah/Koba make it extremely obvious scum wants us to lim amongst the vt claims, which makes me think that even if Sarah is scum, he’s 100% NOT the bus driver.

VOTE: KidAmn

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I think it’s probably going to be between Sarah and KidAmn for me. If game doesn’t end, maybe relook at Clidd but only then I think.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also in two bus drives KidAmn has never been switched. I just find myself having a lot of trouble believing his posts are sincere.

why would scum bus drive kid?

Well if he’s the actual bus driver, they obviously wouldn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

End of day 1 Nancy has War and Peace in a vigpool- they haven't claimed at this point. There is no way Nancy lets a hammer happen sending the game into night 1 with a mason in a 2 or 3 person vigpool who hasn't even claimed anything yet.

Sarah isn't stupid, that paranoia is definitely fake and an excuse to explain her War and Peace reluctance. I also think it's been fairly obvious they haven't been Mason with the way they're playing and how people have been talking about them (Nancy included) this game. I feel good about Sarah flipping scum now.

I agree with PB, that I really think Krazy was fine with limming Clidd. I still think and everything I’ve read makes me think it’s Sarah/KidAmn. I just think if Kid is scum, he’s probably the bus driver.

Anyway, I’m now hard tr you. There’s certain things you’ve said recently that don’t make sense as scum, also you also look good according to VCA.

I can definitely see Titus picking Sarah and I can understand why Sarah would be unhappy with this game as a result of that. Sarah also didn’t seem to be too upset with Krazy pushing him, coincidentally neither did Gamma.

I really don’t understand why anyone is tr KidAmn. His I think Dunn RS makes absolutely no sense with Koba being the clear scum NK target. Why did both Krazy and W & P spend so much time hard defending Gamma almost as much as Krazy defending W & P.

But so long as both Dunn and Tweetie target Starcrossed to tonight, I’m okay with Sarah being flipped. Krazy made it a huge point to blast both Sadade and (God even knows why) 5uffering for toxicity but oddly enough expressed little concern about Gamma and Ircher felt the need to defend Gamma from Pyro.

Like re-ISO both W & P and S & W and tell me their interactions with Gamma don’t scream associative.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really don’t understand why anyone is tr KidAmn. His I think Dunn RS makes absolutely no sense with Koba being the clear scum NK target.

I mean, if I'm scum with Sarah as the current pool seems to be in your head, and I've already told you that, just like Dunn, I don't get a response from my rolestop... why wouldn't scum!Kid just lie to your face and say I targeted DK and oops musta got bussed oh well good effort team. Like, I'm being honest with you here and getting "doesn't make sense" (true, not my smartest decision) and "you don't sound sincere" which... fuck, I can't change how I post.

That’s not really the reason as Dunn cleared that part up, it’s the associatives with S & W/W & P with Gamma as well, plus the fact that I tr everyone else more than Sarah/you but am wrestling with the fact that Sarah looks slightly worse vs. you having greater bus driver equity if you’re scum here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not, I really think it's Sarah and not clidd, and if I'm right, that vote just makes my paranoia around you fade away

I think the way Krazy so casually pushed him seem weird unless he was trying to bus and I don’t think Krazy busses like that if he doesn’t have to.

[Nancy Drew 39]

End of day 1 Nancy has War and Peace in a vigpool- they haven't claimed at this point. There is no way Nancy lets a hammer happen sending the game into night 1 with a mason in a 2 or 3 person vigpool who hasn't even claimed anything yet.

Sarah isn't stupid, that paranoia is definitely fake and an excuse to explain her War and Peace reluctance. I also think it's been fairly obvious they haven't been Mason with the way they're playing and how people have been talking about them (Nancy included) this game. I feel good about Sarah flipping scum now.

Yeah, Dunn unvoting him D1 based on that is totally believable but absolutely no one should think W & P are a mason after that. I still think Sarah’s the goon if scum though if KidAmn is the buddy.


Sorry if I’ve already responded to these posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll redirect my paranoia towards Fey

Fey is locktown, trust me on that. Remember, I KNOW things.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sherlock, I am going to look SO DUMB if you're scum.



~Molly

wi just did a double take realizing you were talking about Clidd not Krazy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright, locking in KidAmn for my guess for final scum

Read over some things and:
-Gamma positioning around BM wagon as scummy
-Gamma surface level scumreads on Italiano and Saudade were scummy
-Gamma reaction to wanting to be drafted was scummy
-2823

The only cons for Gamma being scum were his toxicity, but I think that was genuine rage regardless of his alignment, because it was on a kind of ungamerelated matter{?} - it was regarding the whole Noraa rep out thing

+1

Gamma was probably being honest about his feelings about Noraa replacing out and if you think about it, also a real possibility that 5uffering eliim would have gone through and Noraa would have hardpushed Clidd, so that could also possibly be Gamma being salty that neither of those things were now possible. If that slot is scum, Gamma might have been relying on Noraa to help push his scum agenda on both of those slots.

[Nancy Drew 39]

6324 - KidAmn's scumread on Sarah is so much more concise and to the point than any of their other reads - might be answer keying/scum TMI.

True, no one is more capable of making a better scumcase than one’s scumbuddy and Titus probably knows now Sarah’s flip is inevitable and probably extremely relieved that bus driver is still safe.

Both flipped scum have extremely damning associatives with Gamma. Whether it’s Krazy/W & P hard defending Gamma or Krazy hardpushing 5uffering for apparent toxicity (news to me) but never ever trying to push Gamma for it and treating HIS toxicity like it’s really no big deal at all when compared with Saudade and especially 5uffering. Did anyone - other than Krazy - seriously consider 5uffering to actually be toxic? I thought in parts maybe possibly scummy but never actually toxic - yet he continued to push that angle while minimizing what Gamma did.

Ircher’s defending Gamma from Pyro’s questioning him on his Saudade vote was particularly pinging and both Pyro and me took note of that because Ircher literally answered FOR Gamma and why does scum!Ircher whiteknight town!Gamma like that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

This is a really over-the-top read. I actually don't think scum!Krazy puts their partner so high. In particular, I think Sherlock's read here is very exaggerated and likely to get called out as a result. Hence, it attracts the opposite of the intended effect on the given player.

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Just going to comment that it's this "purity" in the posting style that pings me about Fey. I mentioned it earlier, but I'll mention it again: between that and Fey's avatar, I really think she's trying to manipulate us in an evil way. Maybe it's an unfair bias on my part, but that's ultimately the impression I get from the slot. samantha keeps telling me the slot is town though, so this is more a comment than anything...

Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say.

This is kind of a worrying read from Sherlock on Dunnstral. Particularly, why did Sherlock feel the need to "politically" place their Dunnstral read rather than just give it the same treatment as their other reads?

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

{REDACTED}

Olaf
Spoiler:


I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

About half to two-thirds of Krazy's read on olaf is flat out joking... Which basically means Krazy didn't say much of substance about the slot. Idk, that kind of strikes me as behavior that scum!Krazy would do with their partner.

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town.

Another political read, but this time a scum one. Again, it makes me wonder why Krazy felt the need to do it this way.

I'll mess around with the stumps but im not producing content or using any of my tired braincells today. Nono nonono.

This is still town. (I feel I shouldn't have to point this out, bu tit seems Nancy is expressing some doubts, so... yeah...) Like, yes, scum!Noraa could potentially take this approach, but I think it's more likely she takes the approach she did in Pooky vs. Flavor where she basically let Gloria control the hydra and stopped posting by herself.

By the way, Sherlock, I don't remember which newbie game you're talking about (I played a lot), but I'm trying to avoid using that style. It is very tiring cognitively.

I'm playing differently here.

Is there a particular reason for this? I find it very strange you would do try a different style that requires a lot of effort just for the heck of it.

it's not even low hanging at that point, it's ground resting fruit
too SURFACE LEVEL

I actually do not recall my Gamma read, but could you provide some examples (if you haven't already)?

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I got a feeling this is scum

VOTE: Gamma

DO SOMETHING

VOTE: Saudade
I don't trust his ass at all rn

Okay, so yeah, these are kind of surface level, but at the same time, do you think scum!Gamma puts in such little effort for reads. Like, when it becomes /that obvious/, it stops being as much of a tell. Maybe Gamma is just out of it or something.

To bottom of page 118.

~War

[/quote]

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

This is a really over-the-top read. I actually don't think scum!Krazy puts their partner so high. In particular, I think Sherlock's read here is very exaggerated and likely to get called out as a result. Hence, it attracts the opposite of the intended effect on the given player.

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Just going to comment that it's this "purity" in the posting style that pings me about Fey. I mentioned it earlier, but I'll mention it again: between that and Fey's avatar, I really think she's trying to manipulate us in an evil way. Maybe it's an unfair bias on my part, but that's ultimately the impression I get from the slot. samantha keeps telling me the slot is town though, so this is more a comment than anything...

Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say.

This is kind of a worrying read from Sherlock on Dunnstral. Particularly, why did Sherlock feel the need to "politically" place their Dunnstral read rather than just give it the same treatment as their other reads?

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

{REDACTED}

Olaf
Spoiler:


I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

About half to two-thirds of Krazy's read on olaf is flat out joking... Which basically means Krazy didn't say much of substance about the slot. Idk, that kind of strikes me as behavior that scum!Krazy would do with their partner.

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town.

Another political read, but this time a scum one. Again, it makes me wonder why Krazy felt the need to do it this way.

I'll mess around with the stumps but im not producing content or using any of my tired braincells today. Nono nonono.

This is still town. (I feel I shouldn't have to point this out, bu tit seems Nancy is expressing some doubts, so... yeah...) Like, yes, scum!Noraa could potentially take this approach, but I think it's more likely she takes the approach she did in Pooky vs. Flavor where she basically let Gloria control the hydra and stopped posting by herself.

By the way, Sherlock, I don't remember which newbie game you're talking about (I played a lot), but I'm trying to avoid using that style. It is very tiring cognitively.

I'm playing differently here.

Is there a particular reason for this? I find it very strange you would do try a different style that requires a lot of effort just for the heck of it.

it's not even low hanging at that point, it's ground resting fruit
too SURFACE LEVEL

I actually do not recall my Gamma read, but could you provide some examples (if you haven't already)?

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I got a feeling this is scum

VOTE: Gamma

DO SOMETHING

VOTE: Saudade
I don't trust his ass at all rn

Okay, so yeah, these are kind of surface level, but at the same time, do you think scum!Gamma puts in such little effort for reads. Like, when it becomes /that obvious/, it stops being as much of a tell. Maybe Gamma is just out of it or something.

To bottom of page 118.

~War

[/quote]

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think u are mafia based on PoE.

Dunn spewed town. lolololol

[Nancy Drew 39]

(mostly in order)
red eye knights - confirmed town
-----------------
morning tweet - I refuse to believe noraa is capable of playing this way as mafia even with titus in her ear
gamma emerald (KidAmn) - for like 99% of the game they didn't exhibit their mafia tells but started to near the end before they replaced out, overall I don't think they are mafia
fey - socially they rub me the wrong way but skipping night makes no sense as a mafia role
olaf - reasons
clidd - moving to the beat of his own drum & has the same vibe as the last game we played where he was town
dkkoba - their role makes no sense to me as a town role, but I also don't think titus would pick it as a role, so if they're mafia it's a fakeclaim; overall I can't really read dkkoba yet since this is a unique environment
starcrossed - not really swayed either way by the message thing, and not familiar with either of them but #2444 is a bad look
saraharas - text walls that ain't nobody got time for (sry ircher), poe, and I have no idea who they are so I can't even check if I get un-lazy
toogeloo - I can relate to their sentiment of wanting days to be shorter, but I also wonder if that's like an unwitting spillover from a frustrated mafia chat with how gung ho s&w were
dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral

also jeez that mountain of posts as I go to post this lol

here have a dog

Read on Gamma/KidAmn and Sarah are both hella weird.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

W & P and Gamma claim.

The harm's already been done, but asking for like 5 claims on day 1 when none of those players were close to a lim seems like a bad strategy.

they feel like it can only happen with their blessing. I see this game as everyone is just pawns, and we have no real say in anything. We just do as our stumps want us to.

Eh, it's somewhere in-between. We have some agency, but the stump has the final say. I don't think this attitude of not caring is correct; I think it's important that people make their opinions known so that the stump can make an educated, well-informed decision. It's also important though that people know when to stop shouting the same argument again and again.

Saudade tried to drive elims on my trs and tried to undermine me.

Yes, but that's just how Saudade rolls. It's not really scum-indicative at the point in time that it happened.

Probably silly question but considering a lot of heat has been on you recently, why do you think you should be tr?

Way late (and it wasn't really addressed to me), but my two cents: I don't expect us to be widely townread, but when we remain one of the top wagons throughout the day, it makes one wonder. Are scum letting us stay up in the air to keep us as a potential mislim? Also, the other factor here is game speed and dynamics. Anyone who legitimately thinks they can get a solid read on me in 24 hours is overconfident. Reads can and should take time to form, and you cannot read me off of like 4-5 posts made early Day 1.

Titus

I'm sure you did this intentionally, but why? What purpose did this post serve? You yourself state that the thread is moving at a pace too fast; I think it would be better not to contribute to it with posts that serve no purpose.

My vote is Nancy's today. I have no right to it with as little contributions I've made.

I'm not really a fan of you abdicating responsibility for your vote here. Like, given the game's pace, it kind of makes sense, but at the same time, it's important you form your own reads because that's what is going to differentiate town from scum. Those who are scumhunting are town; those who do not are scum.

?????

Why?

(In reference to 1902): It makes sense to me. Toogeloo could be town, but they are acting in a way that greatly favors scum (namely, abdicating responsibility for their actions). It's probably too early to say for sure, but their general trajectory so far this game isn't really town indicative imo.

@Pyro: I'm only here for a little bit, but do you want to solve anything...? ^^; I feel like we're all just focusing on the same slot, which isn't bad, but it's only one member of the team and I wanna find more!

Kinda off-topic, but between your avatar and your posting style, I really get the impression you are being super manipulative.

I think Dunn just might have townslipped

Absolutely not. That is way too easy for scum to do, and even if it wasn't easy to fake, it'ssomething that scum are just as likely to observe as town. There is no such thing as a "town slip".

They’re claim also seemed kind of sus. Wtf kind of claim is not vanilla?

Exactly what it says. Not vanilla, as in we have a power role. I legitimately don't see why that'd be suspicious.

not sure why everyone changed there/started saying they were towny

Only Batsunami and Battle Mage have expressed any reservation. We are continuously being brought back into the spotlight, and I have a feeling that it's scum doing that.

In #78 W+P is already starting to defend BM unprompted.

Yes because I didn't want a repeat of Pooky v. Flavor Leaf where people were quick to jump on Battle Mage for trivial things... oh look, guess what happened this game?

It's awkward once you take it into account, and what's more even awkward is this:

Battle Mage's read shift is awkward perhaps, but when you think about it, it makes sense to be cautious. I don't see it so much as a town-read as a "town read for day 1"; Battle Mage is somewhat aware of my meta and knows my early game isn't the strongest. Thus, I see it as Battle Mage giving my slot more time so he can make an informed decision.

To end of day 1.
~War

Fey and Dunn spewed town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is Dunn not claiming vanilla=him being a strongman? Why are you necessarily assuming that all the vt claims are true?

nothing is definitely but anyone who claimed vanilla after vanilla cop would be taking unnecessary risk unless they knew vanilla cop was a fakeclaim

This is why I don’t think Sarah is bus driver.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

You got lolhammered, sorry about that, were you town?

-Morty

This is super manipulative. I think it's more likely to come from scum.

this is such a scum claim
where does this confidence come from

This is an awful take from Saudade. He should know from experience that townies can be very overconfident on reads.

You really think I picked someone who hates scum?

It's not impossible.

BM last time got miselimed for being absent, being scummy, he argued more, can't exactly remember all the details but he was met with suspicion pretty early and then mastina cased him into the grave.

Only one of those reasons are true and barely so. The rest was pure confirmation bias; Battle Mage should not have been limmed that game, at least not when Battle Mage was.

Wasn't aimed just towards you really

You should practice what you preach. I'm not sure if this hypocrisy is scum indicative though.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)
Sherlock and Watson (Krazy + PenguinPower)
Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)
Gamma Emerald
Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)
Dunnstral
Battle Mage

Why are we at the top of the list? If I was drafting, I would not pick my slot. I get the impression people think I'm better at scum than I actually am.

In theory this feels towny to me and I think they do err towards town but something right now is pinging me about this, I think it is how they’re strong arming everyone and then saying they won’t get flipped? Even if Battle Mage is town. It is a LOT of confidence and I’m unsure if either of these players are ever like this...

This is super wishy-washy and doesn't really say anything conclusive.

why were people saying BM was hammered

Only Morty said that, and they said that simply to be manipulative and not because there was an actual hammer.

Oh no... Gamma could be scum too

On what basis? Being busy in real life....?

are you going to enlighten me what's that tell you're so confident of is or am I just going to vote you and tab out for the week

Someone isn't reading... Unfortunately, I kind of expect this from Saudade, so it isn't really scummy for him.

i would say, objectively, that's a bad argument which is disproven by your own meta on me.

Someone remind me, we limmed this because _______?
Like I'm gonna be honest: I know hindsight is 20/20, but if you took the time to read Battle Mage's posts and the case made against him, this is more or less a repeat of what happened in Pooky vs. Flavor Leaf. The reasons are different, sure, but the case is even more logically flawed than they were in the Pooky v. FL game, and Battle Mage really reads as genuine and such here.

At bottom of page 55. This thread is a slog.
~War

Cool, Pyro spewed town, more questionable defending of Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

nightskip is clearly a town role, and it was just used on the worst possible day

don't get rattled by the battlemage thing, even though I didn't agree with noraa when proposed, replacing out is a big modifier on everyone's perception of someone and it was almost inevitable to end up that way

also pyro keeps posting in a way that is like someone sucked all of the charisma out of hectic, so I'll now refer to him as hectic b. rampage

and I maintain that saudade acting that way is a strategy, though I doubt it's sanctioned by titus and she probably chastised him

VOTE: saudade

PB spewed town. W & P is practically a townhunting smorgasbord for associative/anti associative tells. lmao.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You’re flat AF and

you’ve been stepping on Nancy the whole time

Why is this scummy?

because it's so extremely not that loops back around and becomes something that is

"why would mafia do that" is the most basic way of exploiting something

because I need to defend gamma

PB/Pyro=town, Gamma=scum. I really should write a book on this shit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why are you answering for Gamma..?

because I need to defend gamma

And Fey - if there wasn’t already a gazillion bajillion/trillion reasons to already locktown them, just ISO W & P. Krazy too but W & P really freaking rams that into the stratosphere.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You don’t seem like the town Saudade I’m used to

But i havent played with you in ages surely you could understand that ive changed a bit in a year

Yeah but your play is also just rather abominable in general
You’re flat AF and

you’ve been stepping on Nancy the whole time

Why is this scummy?

You’re flat AF and

you’ve been stepping on Nancy the whole time

Why is this scummy?

because it's so extremely not that loops back around and becomes something that is

"why would mafia do that" is the most basic way of exploiting something

Why are you answering for Gamma..?

because I need to defend gamma

That explanation doesn’t even... make sense.

Fey/Pyro/PB=town, Gamma=scum. lolololol

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well now that we know who we are eliminating today, lets talk about other people

Idk, this post feels a little off. Like, no one had said the lim was locked in; in fact, on the contrary, Nancy was more or less still vetoing the lim. Thus, it's nonsensical to me that Saudade decided that the lim was already decided.

The only experience I have with scum!BM was in a newbie game where he played in a super inactive/scummy way, it was not difficult to catch him. I don't think he's a deepwolf when he's scum, unless his scumgame has improved since then or if that particular game was a point off the curve.

I am still inclined to think that he is town here.

This is a relatively good post from clidd. It shows clear and logical thinking, appropriate use of past experience, and a reasonable conclusion. I think scum would be more likely to try to shove this lim through.

I’m just nosy! ^_^

Or... You're just scum acting.

He’s being pretty political,

This is like the first game where I've seen people use the term "political" describe someone's play. I really do hope it drops out of the mafia lexicon because it is a meaningless buzzword.

I also disagree that Gamma is acting in the interest of pleasing others rather than finding scum. More likely, he's being drowned by thread volume and is simply trying to find some space to breathe.

Tbh I was expecting more ridicule and frustration from Battle Mage

Ridicule??? He seems frustrated enough to me. I think he did temper it some; probably to avoid transgressing site rules, but he has repeatedly stated how ridiculous the case was on his slot.

At bottom of page 60. I'm not reading more tonight. The pages can be summed up as Noraa repeatedly pushing the Battle Mage lim on one of the most logically invalid and unsound cases I have ever seen.
~War

W & P once again really going out of their way to defend Gamma some more.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It'll be a very amusing book given that you're walking down the exact path W&P want you to and I'm town, but please, do write it, I could use a giggle.
I've said since replacing in I'm not going to argue with the stump - if you really think I'm somehow bus driver AND bussing the other remaining of 2 scum, I'll even hammer myself tomorrow to prove you wrong.
I just hope it makes you re-evaluate your massive biases here. I replaced into a game with a bunch of people (apart from Dunn, I think) who I've barely or never played with before. I'm not going to magically change any minds, so get it over with.

Okay, so you tell me again - sorry if you did and I already missed it - who are the scums?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like I’m fine with Sarah flip because she’s also in my PoE. Sarah/you/Clidd are my PoE, I think everyone else is town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I did, but let's humour you.

Final reads, town to scum:
KidAmn - I got this sick green role PM yo
Dunn - as previously stated, if I'm pocketed here G fuckin G
PB - townread with very slight caveats largely based on how much I would have wanted to hammer Saudade into the GROUND
MT - townread with mild caveats
Fey - Ditto from MT
Starcrossed - townlean, I guess? I don't see it, but enough people seem to be set on it? IDFK.
Pyro/Olaf/Pyro - townlean with heavy caveats
clidd - I can't sort this
Sara - VOTE: SaraharaS enough said

Sara + one of clidd/Pyro, Starcrossed as an outlier is my guess.

No one CC’d Starcrossed’s vig claim, so how are you even getting that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unless you’re CCing Starcrossed’s vig claim, are you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

And why Pyro? He was first on W & P wagon on D1 and was primarily responsible for pushing that through on D3, so why after Krazy kill, does scum!Pyro do that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I did, but let's humour you.

Final reads, town to scum:
KidAmn - I got this sick green role PM yo
Dunn - as previously stated, if I'm pocketed here G fuckin G
PB - townread with very slight caveats largely based on how much I would have wanted to hammer Saudade into the GROUND
MT - townread with mild caveats
Fey - Ditto from MT
Starcrossed - townlean, I guess? I don't see it, but enough people seem to be set on it? IDFK.
Pyro/Olaf/Pyro - townlean with heavy caveats
clidd - I can't sort this
Sara - VOTE: SaraharaS enough said

Sara + one of clidd/Pyro, Starcrossed as an outlier is my guess.

No one CC’d Starcrossed’s vig claim, so how are you even getting that?

I did quite specifically ask in my readthrough for someone to explain why so many people had them as locktown:

If someone could explain to me how this slot is conftown that would be great because my tired lazy ass really doesn't doesn't get it at all

So now that someone has spelled it out, sure, take them out of the equation and bump them up.

Unless you’re suggesting that vig is actually in the vt claims then and keeping mum about it, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Starcrossed’s claim is accurate. There has only been one vig kill the entire game and even if you take into my account of repeatedly requesting vig to holster, yesterday ended without my getting a chance to weigh in on that and no vig happened, so I also believe they’re only a one shot as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And why Pyro? He was first on W & P wagon on D1 and was primarily responsible for pushing that through on D3, so why after Krazy kill, does scum!Pyro do that?

The same reason you presumably think scum!me is bussing the shit out of Sara right now?

How is that even the same though? Pyro/Olaf was never even in danger on either D1 or D3? I have made it a point of stating Sarah/you/Clidd are my PoE, so why wouldn’t you bus Sarah here if scum?

Pyro literally had no reason to bus W & P on EITHER D1 or D3. Scum doesn’t need to bus when they’re not in danger, so this analysis is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And why Pyro? He was first on W & P wagon on D1 and was primarily responsible for pushing that through on D3, so why after Krazy kill, does scum!Pyro do that?

The same reason you presumably think scum!me is bussing the shit out of Sara right now?

How is that even the same though? Pyro/Olaf was never even in danger on either D1 or D3? I have made it a point of stating Sarah/you/Clidd are my PoE, so why wouldn’t you bus Sarah here if scum?

Pyro literally had no reason to bus W & P on EITHER D1 or D3. Scum doesn’t need to bus when they’re not in danger, so this analysis is like comparing apples and oranges.

Because nobody has ever bussed a buddy on the out when they're not in danger for extra towncred? Forget it. I'm not going to argue with you, but I'm done interacting either. Let your confbias take you where it will Nancy, I'm done.

I’m sorry you’re frustrated but AtE really makes no difference to me here. Why does scum!Pyro hardbus W & P for towncred when they literally have 0 reasons to do this? Especially after Krazy kill? I was recently scum in a game and my buddy only bussed me after an actual guilty on my slot because he knew I was going down. So, it would have been beyond stupid for him not to have hardbussed me there.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

And why Pyro? He was first on W & P wagon on D1 and was primarily responsible for pushing that through on D3, so why after Krazy kill, does scum!Pyro do that?

The same reason you presumably think scum!me is bussing the shit out of Sara right now?

How is that even the same though? Pyro/Olaf was never even in danger on either D1 or D3? I have made it a point of stating Sarah/you/Clidd are my PoE, so why wouldn’t you bus Sarah here if scum?

Pyro literally had no reason to bus W & P on EITHER D1 or D3. Scum doesn’t need to bus when they’re not in danger, so this analysis is like comparing apples and oranges.

Because nobody has ever bussed a buddy on the out when they're not in danger for extra towncred? Forget it. I'm not going to argue with you, but I'm done interacting either. Let your confbias take you where it will Nancy, I'm done.

I’m sorry you’re frustrated but AtE really makes no difference to me here. Why does scum!Pyro hardbus W & P for towncred when they literally have 0 reasons to do this? Especially after Krazy kill? I was recently scum in a game and my buddy only bussed me after an actual guilty on my slot because he knew I was going down. So, it would have been beyond stupid for him not to have hardbussed me there.

Because you're not playing against scum!Pyro, Nancy. Look at the title of the game.

?????

What does Titus being scum stump have jack to do with that?

Otoh, Fey’s Clidd argument actually makes logical sense but I still think really unlikely but at least the whole stump argument makes sense but your argument for Pyro!scum based off of that really doesn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also 3 slots with meta on that slot are also tr him: Fey primarily, Tweetie and Starcrossed. Are you telling me that all 3 of them are wrong?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also 3 slots with meta on that slot are also tr him: Fey primarily, Tweetie and Starcrossed. Are you telling me that all 3 of them are wrong?

Make that 4 since Starcrossed is a hydra: so Fey, Tweetie, Pooky, Kanna ALL think Pyro is town. All slots I also hard tr btw for various reasons vs. what Pyro/Olaf hardbussed W &P for “towncred”, why exactly?

Seriously, how often does thar ever happen when not absolutely necessary? Sure Saudade who likes to play like an SK and maybe Radiant Cowbells might do this but otherwise it’s basically the exception rather than the rule in my experience - especially considering they were a role cop. And I was in fact, the one who pointed that out - Neither Pyro or any of his defenders did that, so your argument also falls flat on that aspect as well because he’s only getting said “towncred” because I - no one else actually pointed that out. Pyro only made the meta argument as a basis to tr him here as well as of course pla but 0 mention of W & P push/elim.

See if you’re scum, you need people to push and you’re obviously going to steer clear of Dunn because he’s the last slot you want to see flipped based off of claim. S & W hardpushed Saudade, plus both scum were on him plus Krazy wanted him rolecopped, so can’t push him either.

Pyro is the easiest push to make after Clidd, Starcrossed had they not claimed vig, would have even been better because one shot vig is obviously not a fake vt claim.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Asking permission to hammer

I want BOTH you and Tweetie on Starcrossed tonight. @Tweetie especially.

Sure, we’ll get his buddy tomorrow.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also in two bus drives KidAmn has never been switched. I just find myself having a lot of trouble believing his posts are sincere.

Whether or not Sarah is scum or Krazy did a brilliant job of distancing Clidd I don’t know but bus drive switch with Sarah/Koba make it extremely obvious scum wants us to lim amongst the vt claims, which makes me think that even if Sarah is scum, he’s 100% NOT the bus driver.

VOTE: KidAmn

Asking permission to hammer

I want BOTH you and Tweetie on Starcrossed tonight. @Tweetie especially.

Sure, we’ll get his buddy tomorrow.

hoppy isn't in this game y'all...

??????

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah I'll be on Starcrossed

+1

@Tweetie too, please. Trust me on this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

do clidd next pls

Why not KidAmn?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Asking permission to hammer

I want BOTH you and Tweetie on Starcrossed tonight. @Tweetie especially.

Sure, we’ll get his buddy tomorrow.

You're so wrong and so deep into being wrong that nothing I say will convince you otherwise. Well played W&P and/or Titus.

Well you’re argument wrt to Pyro is really bad but if Sarah actually flips bus driver, it would obviously affect my solve but if she flips goon, we’ll probably unlikely.

Because there’s no evidence for any other scum PR rn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is that a yes then?

Yes, you have my permission.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ugh, I know you think it's fine Nancy but I feel like someone is gonna lolhammer or something before you can finish the pivot to someone else. Can you confirm that I'm a mason and you asked me to fakeclaim VT during the massclaim yesterday.

When I picked REK amongst my other 4 choices, you were one of those other 4 picks.

@Sarah we both know this isn’t true.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I see through you Titus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Asking permission to hammer

I want BOTH you and Tweetie on Starcrossed tonight. @Tweetie especially.

Sure, we’ll get his buddy tomorrow.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Actually sure I'll do what you say instead then

Please do this because Titus will switch Starcrossed with someone else and that will give us useful info. Dunn has already stated that protectives don’t get this info, only investigatives like you and Koba will, so it’s extremely important that you do this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Doc is almost never a scum fakeclaim and I hard tr Dunn but Titus has made it extremely clear that she intends to kill Starcrossed tonight and we know she will bus drive them with someone and you are the only one capable of relaying that information to us. She won’t kill Dunn and therefore he will not be bus driven.

[Nancy Drew 39]

if I message Starcrossed I will not be able to tell you who Star is switched with. The only way you will know is if the switched person outs it themself, but in the event Sara is town, that will not happen as they will switch Star with the goon (or not drive at all), and you will gain no info

Sarah fakeclaimed mason. I don’t see why town ever does that and I think Titus put her up to that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I get the feeling that you don't understand how my investigation works -- if you want me to have a shot at learning who Star is switched with (if any), you should allow me to pick my own targets. If I message Star, I will not be able to tell you who Star is switched with.

Explain it to me then. You’re saying if you pick someone other than Star, you will find out who they were bus driven with?

[Nancy Drew 39]

pretty sure the mason claim was a parting joke. But in any case, let's assume Sara is scum because that is the most likely option

If Sara is scum, the bus driver now cannot act because they are either last scum standing (or Sara is the bus driver and she died). So I'm pointless for finding the driver then anyway

so I'm here to plan for failure and assume Sara is town. And if Sara is town, then messaging Star will be a complete waste as scum will bus drive the goon with Star then not claim my message (or just kill Star) -- making it impossible for us to know whether or not Star was driven. I have already worked through this, Star is not a good target for me to message if Sara is town.

Well we will find that out soon enough. I will seriously be shocked if Sarah flips town after that fake mason gambit. Toog didn’t try that. So if Sarah is scume, what happens then? So long as she isn’t goon, why couldn’t she still bus drive Starcrossed? How do you know bus driver can’t self direct? Gamma could in CoD, so I don’t think we can absolutely rule that out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Here is my best attempt at explaining how I know Sara and DK were bus driven:

Last night, I sent Sara a message. The message included something like this: "Claim that you received a message from Morning in your first post". As you saw, Sara did not do this. The message didn't reach Sara, then. That or Sara is lying about not receiving my message and is scum, but it makes no sense to do that.

Who is the only player in the game who would be unable to follow my "Claim that you received this message" instructions? DKKoba. (Technically the other scum could, but I am operating under the assumption the driver cannot drive themself).

Why does scum do this? Sara is the most unprotectable player in the game, they want to kill DK, so they attack Sara and swap em. Makes sense to me.

Now what did NOT happen:

I did not receive feedback in the form of "Your message went to DK instead!" or "Your target was bus driven!". I figured out the bus drive because my message was not followed.

Oh I see, I thought your role worked like Koba’s. :/

Okay then, I guess target someone other than Starcrossed then because Titus made it clear she’s gunning for them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Now here's how this factors in to Star:

If I message Starcrossed, and they are driven and killed, my message will go to whoever they were driven with.

I will have no idea if this occurs or not.

However, there is one way I can force a target into inadvertently telling me whether or not they were driven with the nightkill:

"Claim that you received this message"

If I message someone of my choice (who is not the nightkill AKA Star) to claim that they received my message, and they fail to do so, I know with certainty that they were transported with the dead player. There is no way scum can avoid this.

That is the extent of my power, as you can see it is not much but it's enough to tell us that the bus driver appears to be ungated or at the very least 3-shot.

If I message Star, scum can drive them with another target and I will be powerless to tell you anything about it -- UNLESS the driven target claims they got my message. However, there's no reason for scum to transport a townie, so they'll just transport the goon and stay silent so I can't know what happened.

Okay I understand, target someone who is extremely unlikely to die tonight.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fey has died. They were a

1-shot Night Skip

.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy at this point I think the game is already won, but we should have a plan for how you want LyLo to look like.

LyLo pool would be Dunn, KidAmn, clidd, Pyro and me.

Why Dunn?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fey has died. They were a

1-shot Night Skip

.

I’m surprised by this but the good news is maybe hopefully Tweetie got lucky and her target got bus driven with Fey. *fingers crossed*

I knew Sarah was flipping scum, it was beyond obvious.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: KidAmn

Get me out of here so Nancy has to actually stop and think, thanks.

PEdit: And maybe don't post Pepes thanks.

Self-voting without actually explaining what you mean with this, doesn’t tell me anything but we don’t need to rush this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yep, I got it.

"Macho Even-Night Vanilla Cop" is the code.

It might be evident, but that was in relation to the message I received from Morning, btw ^

Oh I see, I was seriously wondering what that was about. So if Fey was bus driven, we have no idea with whom.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: KidAmn

Get me out of here so Nancy has to actually stop and think, thanks.

PEdit: And maybe don't post Pepes thanks.

Self-voting without actually explaining what you mean with this, doesn’t tell me anything but we don’t need to rush this.

I have repeatedly told you to re-evaluate yesterday and you declined to do so. I even gave you my PoE. I'm not psychic so if you've changed your mind, I look forward to hearing it, but I doubt that's the case so just get it done whenever you want.

You need to actually tell me WHAT you think I need to re-evaluate.

I have stronger reasons to tr everyone else but you and Clidd. I don’t know what you think I should be seeing but am not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright, so mechanically speaking, it's always wrong to launch KidAmn today. If he's scum, he's always guiltied tomorrow (so please save us some time and concede if that's the case).

Well what do you propose instead? I would prefer to not start limming from my townblock yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That also reminds me that Morning is mechtown because she's confirmed to be a messenger and the last scum is a bus driver.

+1

Yep, that’s obviously why scum killed Fey.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, if there is SOMEHOW 2 masons + 1 vig + Morning alive, you should let us know because that's a mechanical victory, given there's only 3 possible scum and we have 3 launches in that scenario.

I for some reason doubt that's the case though.

I think Kid or Clidd is last scum, if game doesn’t end, I will need to re-evaluate.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wait, I guess they could just kill Morning but then they're killing a messenger over a mason/vig but eh, Morning's locktown anyway.

Can't do that, my messages still function after my death and I know how to set them up so scum can't fake receiving it either

They could shoot the player that we agree to message and rolestop, but ideally we'd choose someone scummy. Also, the only way they could shoot the player is if the bus driver still works (or if Kid is scum)

Oh awesome because I think you’re likely next because your role has been mech confirmed by both Starcrossed and now Clidd confirming it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it seems like scum valued killing Fey (a more active player) over me, even though I technically hold a little more power than her

Kinda odd that scum didn't consider how I can confirm Kid's role tonight as long as there's no bus driver

Yes, I was surprised by it, all things considered. Perhaps it was because I had her as solidly locktown from the getgo and Sarah flip sealed it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright, so mechanically speaking, it's always wrong to launch KidAmn today. If he's scum, he's always guiltied tomorrow (so please save us some time and concede if that's the case).

Well what do you propose instead? I would prefer to not start limming from my townblock yet.

Hm hm hm, it's tough. clidd, Pink Ball, Dunny.

clidd had a rough start imo but he's looked townier and townier recently, although parts of his Sarah push looked a little too confident for me but I don't know if that's scum TMI or clidd's supreme confidence.

Pink Ball had a really town entrance in the way he was trying to cooperate with you, and his reaction at the start of day 3 after Sherlock flipped scum seemed genuine.

Dunny has felt towny all game.

I'll have to look into them.

That’s why I think it’s probably KidAm or Clidd. I wonder if Fey was killed to make Clidd look bad since she was pushing him yesterday.

Krazy wanted to flip Clidd but as Fey pointed out, he was never really in danger but Gamma associatives point to Kid but I still prefer not to rush this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean off the top of my head Fey had some clear clidd suspicions yesterday and preffered him over Sarah for a time.

Yes, that could possibly be a point for or against Clidd, depending on how you view it and Kid has even night RS tonight.

I’m only willing to lim between those two today. I really don’t see any reason to look elsewhere rn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy was hardpushing Clidd. I really don’t see why he’d do that if Clidd was a buddy. Interactions look the absolute worst with Gamma however.

Both flipped scum spend a great deal of time defending that slot.

Nancy, please listen.

In that gamestate, Krazy was afforded the benefit of pushing him because you weren't considering him; it's not a normal game, YOU are the arbiter of who gets eliminated. If he thinks that you're not going to vote there? He can do what he wants, because you aren't gonna make the executive call, and it looks good for him to do that.

Why does he need to push clidd in that state? Like, what's the benefit? IIRC the pool you were working with was town, so, it doesn't DO anything for him to want to flip off of one town to the next. (This point is moot, I need to check the vigpool/elim options).

It just makes Krazy look good in the longrun, and given that Krazy was the person with the dayvig? That credit is good for him, given he needs to go deep.

It's not just as simple as "Krazy hardpushed Clidd." Please think about WHY he could do that, in this specific game, and what benefits it would give him were it successful.

I think there is an off-chance it's both of them, but, meh!!

VOTE: Sarah

[Nancy Drew 39]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

i'm voting clidd right now. ideally we'd vote them off today. why the caps... you don't need to shout... it's scary

clidd is still framing me being v.sus of him as weird when there's v.likely scum in the vanillas and he accepts that and i've made it clear that i TR the vanillas apart from clidd...

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

do clidd next pls

[Nancy Drew 39]

2 flipped scum were pushing Saudade and Sarah’s posting looks anti associative with Pyro and Dunn. Maybe it’s Clidd > KidAmn?

I don’t know but I doubt it’s anyone else.

So, we can spend the day figuring that out but I feel extremely confident that’s the solve but if game doesn’t end after both of their flips, there’s a clever deep wolf who’s been fooling me but I seriously doubt it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy at this point I think the game is already won, but we should have a plan for how you want LyLo to look like.

LyLo pool would be Dunn, KidAmn, clidd, Pyro and me.

Why Dunn?

Because he's not conftown like the two players I left out of the LyLo pool? This is a PoE list

I was more referring to the order. Dunn has a much better ISO than either of those two. I think all 3 of you are town: you/Pyro/Dunn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Don't you think that Kid is the last scum, Pb?

I do, but if the game's not over after that we need a plan in case we lose our conftown players

I really don’t think we need to worry about it until both Kid/Clidd flip and game doesn’t end, which I really don’t expect to happen.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Don't you think that Kid is the last scum, Pb?

I do, but if the game's not over after that we need a plan in case we lose our conftown players

Fair, but the selfvote seems a scumclaim in my eyes.

I mean, we got a scumflip and he's like "omg, people are being unfair to me". His morale is low for no reason.

But I suppose it's only a matter of time before he concedes or I get elim today and he caught tomorrow.

Yeah I lean to him > you and Sarah’s post also points to that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

clidd's vote on me after saying me + kidam makes sense with scum!clidd
dunn could be scum instead of Kidam since his vote on me sucks

star is mech town
fey is mech town
pro is soulread town
pinkball is town because of his predecessor doing a trust tell level rep out
Bat is town via i'm not terrible at reading people lol

that's enough to vote out everyone who i'm not locktown on. don't need more vibes here to solve by poe. nice

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy at this point I think the game is already won, but we should have a plan for how you want LyLo to look like.

LyLo pool would be Dunn, KidAmn, clidd, Pyro and me.

Why Dunn?

Because he's not conftown like the two players I left out of the LyLo pool? This is a PoE list

I was more referring to the order. Dunn has a much better ISO than either of those two. I think all 3 of you are town: you/Pyro/Dunn.

It wasn't ordered in any way, it was the five players who aren't conftown, nothing else.

And yes, I do think that if we eventually go to LyLo, those three players are going to be in it, and I'm scared about that 'cause I've been pushing Pyro since forever and I don't know if I'll be able to be fair and re evaluate at that point

Do you think scum!Pyro kills the slot who townlocks him? Like she was never ever voting him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I'm townreading Pyro. But I'm townreading Dunn too. That's my point. Maybe I'm over complicating things and the game just ends when it will obviously end

Both of them were on W & P D1, Dunn only unvoted because he thought they were my mason.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: War and Peace

can we PLEASE not fucking rush this????

UNVOTE: War and Peace

Actually I want to take some time to think

thank you dunnstral

Actually it was Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Last time I say it: I'm townreading them both. I think scum is between KidAmn and clidd, most likely clidd because of balance, most likely KidAmn because of play. I'm JUST SAYING, that in case they aren't scum, then It'll be a complicated LyLo. I'm NOT SAYING I'm scumreading one of them at the time and I'll end thinking they're both town

It’s fine, I just don’t think we need to worry about it today. If both Kid/Clidd flip and game doesn’t end, we just won’t snap vote anyone and reacess.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Last time I say it: I'm townreading them both. I think scum is between KidAmn and clidd, most likely clidd because of balance, most likely KidAmn because of play. I'm JUST SAYING, that in case they aren't scum, then It'll be a complicated LyLo. I'm NOT SAYING I'm scumreading one of them at the time and I'll end thinking they're both town

I'm also here right now. I lean Dunny as scum over you though ftr

I bet money, it won’t come to that though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

if Sara flips bus driver im messaging "Personal", but in every other case i'm messaging "Simple". The message will instruct my target to, in their very first post, mention the role that I demonstrated how to crumb.

good night all ♡

Do you think these clues were obvious because I had no idea what this meant but this would literally be the first night, that we don’t have any evidence of a bus drive.

It’s beyond obvious that Sarah and Koba were switched because no way Titus wouldn’t have coordinated with Sarah to respond to your message.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unless if the bus driver is still in effect, then they can stop me and Fey is still probably a slightly better kill.

Oh actually even if scum decides to mess up my check on Kid with bus driver, that forces them to kill outside of the confirmed town bloc. So not killing me was just a blunder in every case

I would have killed you if I were scum because Fey was confirmed one shot. It could either point to or away from Clidd since she was hard pushing him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes, I was surprised by it, all things considered. Perhaps it was because I had her as solidly locktown from the getgo and Sarah flip sealed it?

Me/Star/Fey are never going to be suspected so other players' reads on us don't matter so much as our reads on others

In Fey's case, pyro is right and she spent a lot of time exploring why Sherlock's push on clidd doesn't clear him. she also revealed she still thinks clidd is possible if sara is scum. She also consistently seemed to lean clidd/Sara over Kid/Sara (6259)

i dont really have many outstanding reads so killing me wouldnt give any advantage or disadvantage

Killing Star... hm, well, if the bus driver were still active, they could have killed Star if they wanted. But there's no difference between Star/Fey mechanically and i would probably argue Fey is the most optimal kill

I think, given the option, nearly every player would choose Fey out of us three (And Star isn't even possible without bus drive). So perhaps NKA isn't so useful

You are the only ungated slot. Otherwise, there are two schools of thought when it comes to NKA. One is to kill the slot that’s most likely to push you, the other is NOT to do that. Perhaps scum didn’t kill you because they didn’t bus drive last night? And if they didn’t then why didn’t they?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like why does scum!kidam confirm that there is a way for scum to bypass kills when they had the ability to claim outside?

why put scum in a position where WnP get caught via NKA?

+1

Right, good point. Scum!KidAmn never claims he protected M & R with a scum bus driver.

Hmmm . . .

Koba does make a decent point here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

if Sara flips bus driver im messaging "Personal", but in every other case i'm messaging "Simple". The message will instruct my target to, in their very first post, mention the role that I demonstrated how to crumb.

good night all ♡

Do you think these clues were obvious because I had no idea what this meant but this would literally be the first night, that we don’t have any evidence of a bus drive.

It’s beyond obvious that Sarah and Koba were switched because no way Titus wouldn’t have coordinated with Sarah to respond to your message.

Only Starcrossed knows how to interpret that post, it would be completely impossible for anyone else. There's no correlation between the letters I assigned to each player and the words "Personal" and "Simple" aside from the arbitrary way I connected them

I did that so even if I die, Star could still confirm whether or not clidd received the message.

Well you and them are very likely the next two kills, if we get it wrong today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unless if the bus driver is still in effect, then they can stop me and Fey is still probably a slightly better kill.

Oh actually even if scum decides to mess up my check on Kid with bus driver, that forces them to kill outside of the confirmed town bloc. So not killing me was just a blunder in every case

I would have killed you if I were scum because Fey was confirmed one shot. It could either point to or away from Clidd since she was hard pushing him.

It seems that scum wasn't paying much attention so they killed Fey to protect/frame clidd while getting rid of an active player... which would be a better nightkill over me in every way, except that I can investigate Kid tonight or force scum to kill a PoE player.

They had to have overlooked it, even with a bus driver scum cannot escape this as far as I can tell..

Yes or if it is actually Clidd, then maybe Fey was killed > you, so you could be alive to confirm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You are the only ungated slot. Otherwise, there are two schools of thought when it comes to NKA. One is to kill the slot that’s most likely to push you, the other is NOT to do that. Perhaps scum didn’t kill you because they didn’t bus drive last night? And if they didn’t then why didn’t they?

There's only one scum left. They can't bus drive

and

kill (without multi-tasking). That would be the most likely reason by far.

Additionally, they only need to bus drive if they are trying to kill Star last night -- which they didnt

@mod can scum multitask or not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes or if it is actually Clidd, then maybe Fey was killed > you, so you could be alive to confirm.

Confirm what?

You confirmed Clidd received your message, maybe that wasn’t an accident?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like why does scum!kidam confirm that there is a way for scum to bypass kills when they had the ability to claim outside?

why put scum in a position where WnP get caught via NKA?

+1

Right, good point. Scum!KidAmn never claims he protected M & R with a scum bus driver.

Hmmm . . .

Koba does make a decent point here.

What do you guys think about this? Why does scum!KidAmn claim he was on Morty & Rick - leading us to actually KNOW that scum has a PR that could affect protect targets? Does it make sense he hints at this if he is the actual bus driver?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes or if it is actually Clidd, then maybe Fey was killed > you, so you could be alive to confirm.

Confirm what?

You confirmed Clidd received your message, maybe that wasn’t an accident?

Scum couldn't know who I was sending the message to while making night actions -- they get the message in the morning.

Also, the message doesn't really mean anything except that clidd wasn't bus drived which is whatever.

You confirmed Clidd received your message, maybe that wasn’t an accident?

Scum couldn't know who I was sending the message to while making night actions -- they get the message in the morning.

Also, the message doesn't really mean anything except that clidd wasn't bus drived which is whatever.

Oh also if i died Star would have confirmed the message for me

Well since Fey was the target, I’d say no bus drive likely happened last night and if they also understood that Starcrossed could confirm this, then that might also explain Fey kill.

So that doesn’t point to anything other than scum likely wanted your target to get confirmed which Fey would have no role in. I don’t believe scum forgot Fey was a one shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

How many valid targets were there for Kid to choose from to protect on that night?

I think M & R, Sarah and S & W are the 3 slots I mentioned. I didn’t specify which one but we obviously know it couldn’t have been S & W, so Kid could have claimed Sarah. But considering the flips, maybe it’s not as clearing as Koba thought.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Italiano is the optimal wagon today. Vig on Clidd if it flips scum, holster if it flips green.

Gunsmith on REK.
Rolestopper on Sahara, Morty & Rick or Sherlock & Watson.

Vanilla cop on Clidd or Toog. (Olaf or Starcrossed other possibilities but not preferred).

I think this the optimal NAs but I’m open to hearing alternatives but I think this makes the most sense.

@Tweetie

[Nancy Drew 39]

Morty and Rick has died. They were a

Vanilla Townie

Sherlock and Watson has died. They were a

1-shot Dayvig

Morty and Rick were supposed to be protected.

Scum has a dayvig??? Dafuq? Whomever shot Krazy, you have my utmost gratitude.

I'm deeply confused because I submitted a rolestop on M&R, but Gamma had claimed down to even-night so who fuckin knows

I'm also hella busy with RL this morning and 193 pages is not an easy catchup so bear with me y'all

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think scum not killing me is a clear indicator they thought very little of my power -- which would lightly suggest the bus driver can no longer act, I think at the very least.

It is highly unlikely they gave any mind to my message towards clidd, it doesn't really mean much.

Only if they can’t multitask.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, please don’t rush this day, town stump thanks you for your patience.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

If bus driver can multitask, it would make more sense to kill me as I have the power to out that fact. I think keeping driver a secret is advantageous to scum at this point for playing around the protectives / framing them and whatnot

It also is just objectively correct to kill me since whether or not there's a bus driver they're still getting hurt, but I suppose we assume that they missed that part.

As for why scum!Kid outs the bus driver -- yeah it seems unnecessary for them to do for sure. I wouldn't say it's clearing because WIFOM and also it was going to get outted sooner or later when a protection failed down the line.

In any case I'm highly in favour of not eliminating Kid today, having Kid and I target an agreed-upon PoE player, and learning whether or not their rolestop works. As long as the PoE player isn't killed, they will be able to say whether or not they got the message. If scum has a functioning bus driver, they can kill the PoE player to stop this, but that is also a fine outcome. If they kill me, Star will confirm the message in my place.

Note that the bus driver can't make it so my message goes to a different player cause they'd also be moving the rolestop. Also also note that if our PoE player IS the scum, they can't fake guilty Kid because that would require confirming my message.

So if we elim, say, clidd today and scum kills me, then tomorrow we have

Starcrossed - town
Kid - confirmed rolestopper or not rolestopper
Dunn - odd-night doctor (can act tonight)
Pyro
Pink Ball

Let's say Kid is a rolestopper. They can't be the bus driver then, barring probably the most ridiculous scumteam in history. Have Dunn protect Star, elim Pink Ball, scum must kill Kid or they lose

Starcrossed
Dunn
Pyro

you've got a 50/50 Xylo in the absolute worst case. Even if Star dies by bus driver fuckery, you'd have Kid instead who also is town at that point so still 50/50

Dunn is odd night doc, only claimed protective tonight would be KidAmn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler: Scum ignores and kills Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn rolestops Pink Ball
Scum kills Morning

Outcome: Morning is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Scum bus drives to sabotage

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn rolestops Pink Ball
Scum bus drives Pink Ball with Pyro
Scum kills Pyro

Outcome: Pink Ball is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Kid kills Pink Ball to sabotage

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn kills Pink Ball

Outcome: Pink Ball is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Kid is scum who ignores and kills Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn kills Morning

Outcome: Morning is dead, Pink Ball claims he received the message

Spoiler: Kid bus drives to kill Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn bus drives Pink Ball and Morning
KidAmn kills Pink Ball

Outcome: Morning is dead, no one claims the message

If Kid is a scum multitasking bus driver, they can redirect the message from the PoE player and into the kill which would mess this up. Unfortunately, the only scenario I can't cover is exactly Kid being a multitasking driver.

So if (say Pink Ball) doesn't receive my message, that means Kid is either rolestopper or multitasking bus driver. So I can't get a perfect clear after all.. maybe i'll think of something better, but atm it's still the most info I can think of getting

Either you or Starcrossed are dying tonight, considering your role if we don’t lim Kid, he would obviously rolestop Starcrossed.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Q: Are scum multitasking?
A: Yes.

Thank you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

Yes. One of my rules was no loyal/disloyal, no cops/gunsmiths (hence the fake), no PT cops. You aren't going to generate enough clears to autowin.

We play to the last man standing, no matter how exhausted and stressed I am, I'm going to fight. No concessions.

You just keep telling yourself that.

I actually do have one or two strongwilled loyal/disloyal shots left. Still sure you don’t want to spare yourself the inevitable humiliation and concede?

[Nancy Drew 39]

My one hang up about Dunny is that he didn't feel as annoyed this game. 2 versus games ago he was visibly irritated at pichu and Ydrasse's antics and he got mad at Noraa once or twice. There's been nothing of that sort this game.

Well what am I supposed to feel annoyed about in this game?

This is silly

Dunny, how did your read on Sarah change between the 2nd and 3rd quote? I don't see you state any reads on her in the intermission.

Fey's case

And also, there were a lot of flips between this time, the poe got a lot smaller in my mind

Sara was also in my potential mason pool for a while, if I remember correctly nancy was defending that slot and calling it towny earlier

Yes, I initially did tr Sarah but then other slots towned it up and then my read in her began to dramatically degenerate.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mod

how does bus driver and rolestopper even interact if they target the same player?

Is it just based on who submits the night choice first?

You need to bold it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like viewtopic.php?p=12608522#p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

I am going to go through all of flipped scums’ redslists with a fine toothed comb, just to be sure I’m not missing something.

[Nancy Drew 39]

2106

Still? I don’t wanna do self-meta, but what is making feel this way?

{REDACTED}

Take the time to reevaluate, Nora.

Saudade is not the only scum that Titus selected.

Yeah, I've been liking clidd's posts for the most part. They come as reasonable and level headed to me.

I think what I'm most disturbed by is the skip. I like to use the night to rethink a few things, but now I just want to resolve another D1 thought I had. This D2 doesn't feel like it actually happened yet and it's throwing me into a loop.

I agree. I think using that kind of ability at the end of the day 1 is super antitown and the worst possible time to use such an ability. All of the important actions generally occur the first night, and furthermore, people need the night to rest and recuperate from the frenzied day 1 that is usually the case.

It really isn’t
I curse when people are being stupid
Alignment matters none

I would imagine this is the case. Like, I haven't kept track of this "tell", but quite honestly, it seems pretty easy to subvert.

VOTE: batsunami

Ew, bad vote.

Ask nancy for the solve im not doing shit this game lol

This is town. This slot should never be limmed.

He trolls but try to solve as town.

Maybe to some extent, but this hasn't generally been the case in my experience. He trolls a lot and maybe does an epsilon of solving. He still spends a lot of time being aggressive and uncooperative.

At bottom of page 90. Lots of non-game related posts in the last few pages (e.g.: alt stuff).
~War

Nancy Drew vs. Titus Reads:

Now is a good time to give some reads, so here they are:

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
War and Peace (100%): Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Batsunami (+82%) - Like I previously explained, I think the level of excitement and energy from this slot is most likely town; It's neither over the top nor too subdued. There are other factors besides just that to the read as well. The way she posed her Dunnstral read for instance strikes me as likely a town level of conviction (even if I don't necessarily agree with it).

Charlie and Snoopy (+65%) - They've had several reasonable and good takes. I think they are thinking critically about what posts means rather than looking at the surface details.

Neutral Town

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

Dunnstral (+35%) - He has had several good takes and has maintained an active thread presence. I'm actually a bit bothered by the thread presence; I don't recall him typically being this active.

Null

(0%-30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)

Pyro (-10%) - Most of his posts are fine, but there are a few that lightly ping me, mainly on a gut level. Their characterization of my play (and use of it to further the wagon on our slot) as town is also rather inaccurate and that pings me a bit as well.

ItalianoVD (-15%) - 611 really bothers me; I don't get why he is so paranoid of being wagoned.

Neutral Scum

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

Sherlock and Watson (-35%) - I think the fluffing is really over the top, and they don't seem to be really scumhunting.

Rogue Squadron (-38%) - Too much fluff and filler from this slot. I remember Lunar being quite a bit quieter.

Fey (-40%) - Her posting is just feels really off in some way.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)

​​

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Spoiler: How to read this reads list

Players are placed in different sections based on my confidence in the read expressed as a percentage. A positive percentage indicates that I leans towards town on a player whereas a negative percentage indicates I lean towards scum on a player. Please note that the Null section contains both townreads and scumreads, and you must look a the sign of the percentage in parenthesis to determine which way I lean.

Confidence ratings are rough estimates (and somewhat arbitrary) and are relative to one another. In addition, they tend to be scored on a quadratic scale versus a linear scale; in other words, the difference between 0% and 30% tends to be less than the difference between 30% and 60%.

Disclaimer: These are my reads independent of my hydra partners.

If you aren't listed, you haven't done enough for me to develop a read on you/you've done nothing memorable in the first 25 pages.
~War

[Nancy Drew 39]

also seriously fuck off if you're going to claim I've done nothing after going through this hellish game

like I was on the verge of snapping during D1 and I might well do it now if you're going to throw out that sort of garbage accusation

I worked hard D1 to get into this game to the point I was in physical pain from having to sit at my computer so much
So to say I've done NOTHING worth townreading is honestly fucking insulting to that effort and makes me feel legitimately offended.

Whatever Kid is this game, Gamma should 100% not be cleared based off of toxicity.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

[Nancy Drew 39]

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

No, not luck. If KidAmn is the last scum, I think I have an explanation.

I think Gamma/KidAmn is scum even night Role Stopper and 1 shot bus driver.

Kid claimed to protect Morty and Rick N2 - who was conveniently the only town amongst Sarah and Sherlock and Watson but if Kid is actually scum role stopper, he’d obviously have RS’d War and Peace.

On N3 - the only actual evidence of an actual bus drive ftr - Koba was INFORMED that their target was switched from REK to Toog. This confirms Dunn’s odd night town doc claim.

On N4 - Tweetie targeted Sarah who she ASSUMED was switched with Sarah but that happened before Starcrossed claimed 1 shot vig (and unless one of the vts are for some reason failing to claim that, I have no reason to doubt that). So if scum even night rolestopper, why couldn’t have scum!Kid just RS’d Sarah? Tweetie was never actually informed her target was switched to Koba - unlike Koba who was informed that their target was switched to from REK to Toog.

Then you look at why was Fey the NK > both Tweetie and Starcrossed. Well we know Dunn claimed to protect Starcrossed and as Tweetie pointed out bus driver - assuming not a 1 shot but no evidence suggests it isn’t - doesn’t really need to kill her > Fey. If scum RS, KidAmn can’t touch Dunn because he needs to keep him alive as a possible shield to miselim in Elo. This is why he’s pushing Clidd. His push on Pyro is particularly bad, because his only argument is that Pyro bussed W & P solely for towncred. Scum obviously takes towncred wherever they can but - unless they’re in actual danger, it’s never the actual sole reason for a bus. KidAmn’s claim of RSing Dunn instead of obvious NK target Koba is especially suspect. You always protect the outed cop who found evidence of the bus driver and claimed they would be the actual target but no, he instead claims Dunn, his shield who he will obviously hard defend because after Clidd miselim, he can then maybe flip on him since if Pooky vs FL is any example, Dunn is an optimal miselim candidate but Fey dying points to Dunn being town and bus driver being one shot,

[Nancy Drew 39]

Clidd’s posting today is really good where as KidAmn has done absolutely nothing but AtE and shade. He keeps telling me I need to re-evaluate but never actually bothers to ever explain anything. Both KidAmn and Clidd know that they’re the potential elim targets today but only Clidd’s response to that reads townie to me. I think if Dunn was scum here and bus driver wasn’t a one shot, Starcrossed would be dead instead of Fey.

Because of nightskip, Dunn had only two opportunities to use his doc: N3, where Titus inadvertently spewed him town by bus driving REK with Toog and N5 where his target, Starcrossed didn’t die.

Contrast KidAmn: On N2, he claimed RS on the only townie amongst 3 possible RS targets who I suggested and but on N5, he inexplicably claims to RS Dunn instead the blatantly obvious target Koba. Oh yeah, Dunn is clear because of N3 bus druve and N5 target actually living, where as both townies just conveniently happened to die on nights 2 and 4, when there was 0 real evidence of a bus drive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dunn is mech confitown based on both mech confirmed bus drive on N3 and Starcrossed not dying N5. So yes @Titus, Dunn is 100% mech cleared.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also why does scum!Krazy hardpush Clidd as the D2 elim? Sure he wasn’t in actual danger but why assume Keazy would think that? He did hardpush him but because I really wanted Italiano instead, it didn’t happen but he fought me extremely hard on that. He 100% wanted a Clidd elim D2.

Also both S & W and W & P have extremely strong weird associatives with Gamma and Ircher in particular had buzarro associatives when he “defended” him from Pyro’s questioning him wrt to Gamma’s bad Saudade push.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both scum were pushing PB predecessor Saudade and Krazy wanted him “gunchecked”. Pyro never kills Fey N5, when she townlocked him.

So Tweetie is mech confitown by role, Dunn is confitown because of REK bus drive and Starcrossed (also town based off vig claimed not being CC’d) not dying. PB is town based off of two flipped scum putting his slot in actual danger. Pyro is town based on Fey N5 NK. Clidd is town because Krazy hardpushed him < Italiano on D2.

KidAmn has done absolutely nothing but bs AtE and discredit and Ircher’s associative with Gamma are particularly gross.

I think game ends today with Kid flip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

Aren't they just.

Which one is the townie here?

VOTE: KidAmn

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Yeah, this is totally a townie response.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

Aren't they just.

Which one is the townie here?

VOTE: KidAmn

Clidd keeps earnestly trying to solve while Kid continues to do absolutely nothing but AtE and discredit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Uh, what?

you didn't claim in the vanilla massclaim 1+1=notvanilla

Wtf... is this just overt mason hunting

Typical scum good cop - Sarah/bad cop - W & P positioning on Dunn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Sherlock/Clidd interaction stuff

Pink Flooooof <3

Alright whatever

VOTE: clidd I guess? Idk what do you want nancy?

-S

i feel like Sherlock is aware that voting doesn't mean much here since Nancy should always be the one picking who we ultimately exile. votes and minor shade isn't all that significant and there's no real solid push from Sherlock actually against Clidd. i just get vibes of distancing more than anything when they know that it makes them look less aligned without really threatening the over one.

Italiano and Pink Ball *could* be town off VCA in which case clidd looks very likely to be red

that might be hasty though but it sorta vibes with my gut

meh, no follow up to this

Can't decide if clidd is goon already being bussed or the town that scum want to push to disrupt the town narrative

shading without real pressure is a theme

I was just thinking it'd be interesting to see a noraa stump game but tbh noraa feels like the stump of *this* game, nancy are you sure you didn't role swap?

I still feel good about my town akarin vibe earlier but it would be nice to just see more from her. And Ari there's something you can do that would help me read u but you only are townie if you do it unprompted

Personally I really don't townread the way suffering started being like... Just mean? Too gamma, and I don't want to set a precedent that being mean or upping ate will get townreads. Like the reads of saudade flipped because he went over a line and if reads change *for those reasons* we're gonna see scum like fake anger a lot. That sort of stuff is terrible for thread readability

Nancy do you still townread clidd?I

-S

asking nancy about it without trying to convince nancy otherwise gives me vibes of not actually trying to push clidd out, just to give the appearance of it

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

somehow i don't really get the vibes of this being a hard push on clidd from sherlock or even anti-aligned indicative. the line of clidd is a throwaway after pushing people as alternatives that Nancy prefers to clidd

Leash Gamma to Sahara, since Fey is out of shots leash Italiano to Fey to confirm the existence of that role. W&P check one of PB or Starcrossed, sure, probably better to not leash GS to specific target

Flip 5uffering (I think that's the implication of that post? if not I'd leash him to clidd), vig... clidd? don't like this actually for some reason even though it's the 'safe' play, and this maybe changes if we're leashing 5uffering to clidd if we don't do 5uffering today

not sure if there was something else you were doing with Fey that would make a vanillaize there bad but from my POV that's correct night actions

-S

I kinda think italiano's town now, so in my opinion, italiano vanillaize fey, vig clidd makes more sense

if you think clidd is townier than italiano, then vig italiano, italiano leashed to clidd

idk I can't make some of those decisions for you

-S

doesn't want vig on clidd is notable, but none of this is really associative-indicative based on assumed scum night powers

This is getting to the point where my reads are actively degrading. I don't like the push on REK. I don't like PB (alignment wise, based on push/gamestate). I don't like clidd calling PB town *now*. I don't like the inertia on Italiano. I don't know what that adds up to in the gamestate and I don't think today will be in a good place if this dayphase goes long enough that it will create the risk of me getting to a point where I let myself push PB, because I just don't see that being good for anyone involved, even IF PB is scum. I think positionally REK is probably town simply for the way people are positioning themselves on that slot in this gamestate. But I say all that and I don't even know REK is town! Maybe PB is like softbussing to set up a chain on me later or something, I don't know! I don't even care! Nancy I am not even joking when I say that if you let this game go past page 190 I am just going to overrule you and announce the day's flip and I won't even care if you had some sort of galaxybrain mason gambit in mind or something. 180 was my 'gasket point' and I know you don't want to be rushed but look at the pagecount of this game and realize SHIT NEEDS TO DIE. I know you want to go slow and you want me to be helping you more but THIS IS ME HELPING YOU. MAKE A DECISION, RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHATEVER and let this game ADVANCE before literally the entire game is just ~done~. What happens when days go this long (pagecountwise) is that my accurate reads from earlier in the game get supplanted by the reads I have on people whose reads are annoying me, whose positioning annoys me, or whose soft pushes on me annoys me. My reads are stronger earlier because I don't have as much emotional load dealing with my evaluation of the slots. And the more frustrated I get with this game in particular, my reads get worse as the page count just continues to advance. And I say that and I know that Pink Ball, whatever his alignment, just wants to play the game he replaced into *which is fine* bearing in mind that I am just *completely sick* of 200 page day 1s. No day 1 is worth 200 pages. It's just not. All that will happen is that, since it's day 1, and since we'll just *usually* end up wrong here *somehow*, *somewhere*, we're just going to get *even more upset* when we realize we spent 200 pages talking it out only to fuck it up. Mafia isn't supposed to be played perfectly, it's supposed to be played in a way that you get the odds to *slightly* tip in your favor through *slightly* above random reads. If you try to play the perfect game the game will just slip through your fingers. That's been my takeaway from the last six months.

TBH a very big part of me wants to snap to clidd just for 4585 and say Noraa was right all along. In fact why don't we just do that?

VOTE: clidd

We're just spinning in fucking circles here Nancy, CALL THE SHOT OR I WILL

the actual push on Clidd comes here- when contextually like.. he wasn't in danger of getting flipped? these are Nanacy's posts right before this

i definitely wouldn't lim Morty today Nancy
he's mostly just there as a prediction even though I townread him
the gist for clidd is i think he's saying things he doesn't believe in and playing up the confident/commanding act
War and Peace has samantha playing to a tee to her scummeta while Ircher had some really bad moments early on
like i said i'm not gonna scumcase any of them right now
either in a few days if we're somehow still on this day
or day 2 if we flip someone

Well W & P was in my initial solve and Clidd was in Noraa’s.

My initial solve was 5uffering, Italiano, Gamma, W & P. So I’m open to W & P if you can show me they’re scum, less sure on Clidd but I’m open to it if one or more of that PoE is wrong. As for REK, if this was a regular game I might see things differently but I just can’t see Titus drafting Akarin after Pokeman Battles, especially when she’s made multiple posts about not being interested in drafting players who hate playing scum because it’s “demotivating” and Akarin detests playing scum. So my reads are part based on play, part VCA, part meta and part the likelihood of actually being drafted. So Fey is my top tr primarily based off of meta and unlikeliness of being picked. I was paranoiaing on you for likelihood of being picked but I also have gotten some town pings from you.

Why is compulsive vanilaizer a town role? Somebody please explain that.

It's very clear here that Clidd isn't even in like Nancy's top 4 targets (was like 5th/6th) and Nancy seemed fairly solid at this point since we were vibing on most of these reads around this point. i don't see the push actually being non partner indicative and think the overall trajectory leans more scum

Sarah putting some serious effort to push Clidd, where as while he claims to be also okay with limming KidAmn, puts 0 effort into scumcasing him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

my solve right now is Clidd + KidAm

a lot of people seem to be saying Clidd is town from the interactions with Sherlock. don't buy that logic holds up given Sherlock knew that wasn't going through when Nancy was against it

Has KidAmn in his solve but then proceeds to discredit it. Otoh, never does that for Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

i'm voting clidd right now. ideally we'd vote them off today. why the caps... you don't need to shout... it's scary

clidd is still framing me being v.sus of him as weird when there's v.likely scum in the vanillas and he accepts that and i've made it clear that i TR the vanillas apart from clidd...

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

More shade on Clidd and more attempts to discredit KidAmn scumreads, which is why Kid’s claimed RS on Dunn > Koba is so sus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

Why does Sarah hardbus Clidd here? He obviously doesn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My current PoE is you/KidAmn/Clidd. I have stronger reasons to be tr everyone else and as long as both scums are in that PoE, we win.

So fypov, do you agree with this? Minus you obviously.

as i said earlier, yes. this either gets both scum, or there's a deepwolf that gets POE'd out from flips/power roles... but there's enough votes for all of that. if i had a smaller poe then i'd be a lot more irritated with a push on me here

I hard TR over half of the game without counting myself so this isn't game losing, it's just dumb. if you want to vote me then sheep me afterwards

Deepwolf suggestion. After Clidd townflip, he wants us to think KidAmn isn’t the obvious solve.

[Nancy Drew 39]

clidd's vote on me after saying me + kidam makes sense with scum!clidd

dunn could be scum instead of Kidam since his vote on me sucks

star is mech town
fey is mech town
pro is soulread town
pinkball is town because of his predecessor doing a trust tell level rep out
Bat is town via i'm not terrible at reading people lol

that's enough to vote out everyone who i'm not locktown on. don't need more vibes here to solve by poe. nice

Sarah setting up Dunn as a miselim after Clidd townflip.

If Dunn was actually scum here, there would A) have been no bus drive N3 and B) Fey would have not been the NK. It’s beyond obvious that Starcrossed was the intended target and if Dunn was actually scum here, it would be Starcrossed who died not Fey.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Is anyone still seriously doubting that Starcrossed was the preferred target and not Fey?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Is anyone still seriously doubting that Starcrossed was the preferred target and not Fey?

Kid is very clearly TMI slipping with this. He’s agreeing with Titus that Starcrossed was the the obvious target but they didn’t die because town doc Dunn protected them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let’s wrap this up, KidAmn is the last scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

i'm messaging "Alien" if we're not done here yet

I think he’s scum even night RS and 1 shot bus driver, because Fey died instead of Starcrossed. Titus realized that a scum even night RS would mean an odd night town doc. 1 shot nightskipper + 1 shot bus driver=1 shot scum dayvig + 1 shot bus driver.

Scum made bad choices when they flipped Koba but especially Fey. Killing you would have been far less suspicious. I think Fey died to frame Clidd but ironically added to Pyro being townspewed. I don’t see how it’s not Kid especially with the way Sarah positioned around him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Is anyone still seriously doubting that Starcrossed was the preferred target and not Fey?

Kid is very clearly TMI slipping with this. He’s agreeing with Titus that Starcrossed was the the obvious target but they didn’t die because town doc Dunn protected them.

arent they referring to this ?

I actually do have one or two strongwilled loyal/disloyal shots left. Still sure you don’t want to spare yourself the inevitable humiliation and concede?

Also you realize that bus driving scum can kill Star easily if you declare protection on them right

I’m saying bus drivers is only a one shot or else like Koba, you would have been informed that Sarah was switched. I think Sarah was RS’d N4 and W & P N2. I may possibly be wrong on Sarah RS though, it could have been Starcrossed. I think Sarah maybe just didn’t respond for whatever reason but Starcrossed would 100% be dead here if Dunn was scum and also confirmed bus drive on N3.

There has to be two scum 1 shots to fit with town nightskip + vig 1 shots, which is why I believe that Kid is actually telling the truth about being even night Rolestopper. Dunn is definitely town no matter what and bus drive is 100% 1 shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Is anyone still seriously doubting that Starcrossed was the preferred target and not Fey?

Kid is very clearly TMI slipping with this. He’s agreeing with Titus that Starcrossed was the the obvious target but they didn’t die because town doc Dunn protected them.

arent they referring to this ?

I actually do have one or two strongwilled loyal/disloyal shots left. Still sure you don’t want to spare yourself the inevitable humiliation and concede?

Also you realize that bus driving scum can kill Star easily if you declare protection on them right

No they actually can’t because I have a strongwilled doc shot that I’ll be using on either them you tonight and scum can’t counteract a strongwilled shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Kid is scum even night RS and either one shot bus driver or odd night, because unless this is wrong, there’s absolutely no evidence of even night bus drive, so I think he actually is even night RS.

[Nancy Drew 39]

or else like Koba, you would have been informed that Sarah was switched.

For the last time, no i would not have, that is not how it works.

But I see what you're saying, you're theorizing that Kid rolestopped Sara the night I messaged her and their bus drive ability only happened on the Koba night (since the bus drive that dodged Kid's rolestop no longer has to exist)

Yeah, it's possible. Maybe a JoAT sort of thing i guess

That’s right it did happen on Night 4, I feel a lot better now. Yeah I understand how your role works but if you check Koba/Toog flips, there’s nothing in them that would suggest that scum wouldn’t know that Koba would be informed that REK was switched with Toog, so yes, I think Kid likely RS’s both W & P N2 and Sarah N4, so that’s why bus drive is probably either odd night or 1 shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tweetie sends Sarah a message she obviously never received on N4 but Tweetie is never actually informed she didn’t receive it or that Koba actually did. That points to Sarah being RS’d N4 which would mean that Kid lied about RSing Dunn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Kid self-voted because Sarah was very obviously rolestopped N4 not Dunn. No way would Sarah have not responded to Tweetie’s message. A bus drive would have meant that Tweetie would like Koba actually be informed that her target got switched. The fact that she did not receive said message points to Sarah being rolestopped.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i also got the name of my target when I submitted on WnP n2, i got feedback with name + report

alright since we got that out of the way, I was actually redirected TO TOOG and they were displayed as VANILLA


i think toog is the vanilla goon remaining, as bus drivers can rarely self target else its OP asfk.


VOTE: Toog

But REK was mason and would have gotten a not vanilla claim?

i was redirected onto Toog.

Toog is vanilla, not REK.

my target got switched.

I mean i chose REK and it was redirected**

i dont think bus driver would have expected me to happen to target REK -> see who the 2nd drivee was.

so i think toog is just the nilla scum here

u know i wonder do u think titus would expect me to check REK tonight, cuz i kinda softed it??
did u catch that soft nancy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Starcorssed died. They were a

mason

Fuck! We’ll at least Titus didn’t get the vig.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hello, this is mitsuha here. i had a feeling we would die tonight, so i prepared this during the night for nancy to release in the morning.

anyway, i just did some digging and am now convinced pyro is the last scum.

1: he really was mason-hunting us the whole game. anyone who knows me/pooky/nancy knows we're all pretty fond of each other, so we were a suspect from the beginning. with our play, being suspicious we were scum or mason is *fine*, but this is really the type of thing town keeps to themselves. saying this is also what i think is him trying to be overly transparent, i.e: telling us this was indeed something he thought of, when, like i said, he really should've kept this to himself.

2: i don't really buy his scumread of us and saying we're "really scummy". like, actually why? saying we're really scummy means there's apparently a lot of scummy motivation in our posts, but this was never explained. his scumread basically comes down to thinking my posting was "fine" and pooky is not as active as he normally is, which, he doesn't even know is a scumtell. i do feel like he *should* feel decently i'm town, and he *should* feel more confident on that than his random pooky read, but in the case where i'm wrong, i would like to see his in-depth thought process on why we've been scummy enough for this read, and you all and nancy can read through it to see if it's convincing. cause my read right now is this is just an excuse to keep mason-fishing/fishing for nancy's reaction

3: he shouldn't be suspicious of clidd. like with me, pyro has a decent amount of experience with clidd and can tell when he's being obvtown -- and i absolutely think clidd is being obvtown. take for example this game, and look at how he appeals to clidd, correctly pinning him as town

Spoiler:

clidd is an angelread

EE you've seen me gimmick all the time
eg posting like i learnt English from a llama as Hoctac in that large game
and then i got killed N1 lol
or posting with anime reaction images as Hel
i could go on

you really think the change in style could be scum-indicative?
sorry ! this just gets to me soemtimes because some people like Titus scumread me in every game because they see a change in playstyle and associate that with me being scum
it's a sigh ?_?

Also, Clidd?

Clidd is an angel
mindmelded with his thoughts on Green Crayon's mechposts
and his tone is free and towny

really just ctrl+f clidd

in this game, look at how he gets townpings on him immediately, but then disregards it

Spoiler:

this is kinda ... what's the word? theatrical? performative? idk don't like it tho

Performative and overconfident clidd is town!clidd. Leaning town on him. I agree with Akarin being towny though.

Alright, so mechanically speaking, it's always wrong to launch KidAmn today. If he's scum, he's always guiltied tomorrow (so please save us some time and concede if that's the case).

Well what do you propose instead? I would prefer to not start limming from my townblock yet.

Hm hm hm, it's tough. clidd, Pink Ball, Dunny.

clidd had a rough start imo but he's looked townier and townier recently, although parts of his Sarah push looked a little too confident for me but I don't know if that's scum TMI or clidd's supreme confidence.

Pink Ball had a really town entrance in the way he was trying to cooperate with you, and his reaction at the start of day 3 after Sherlock flipped scum seemed genuine.

Dunny has felt towny all game.

I'll have to look into them.

(p.s: does town!pyro really think dunn "has felt towny all game"? i find dunn kind of a hard read, but EH, whatever)

like basically, if i can say clidd's obvtown, pyro knows it too.

4: his latest posts. these are probably the worst offenders

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

there is no way town!pyro handwaves something like this and *actually* believes it

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

clidd suspicion = bad, but the second line is especially "you-can't-seriously-be-thinking-this" feeling. i guess this one is a vibe-read

5: the fey kill reason is moot. fey/morning/us are mechclear; we are all going to die eventually. pyro wasn't especially in any danger yesterday to need help.

5: general play. reevaluating his play in this game, he's played a fairly conventional game. he hasn't done anything especially controversial/stuck his neck out for something he believes. he doesn't have any towny instances where he looks superbly bad because he's uninformed and town. the fact that he was bussing the right people at the right time makes me think he's moreso scum, really, cause his main objective is to look good here

lastly, i want to apologise for my awful play in this game; i really didn't put enough effort into this as i should have. pyro's played well and this kinda sucks for him, but yeah, @TOWN, please VOTE: pyro, and never ever ever vote clidd. for the spirit of mistuha, PLEASE. good luck, friends! o7



~mitsuha

Kanna requested that this be posted if she dies. I got permission to direct quote it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

You aren't going to generate enough clears to autowin.

That’s what you think. I already have two and Kanna has a third. Change my mind.

There’ a vig left in the vt claims and yes I was bluffing but I do actually have a strongwilled loyal/disloyal shot I can use up until the night before Elo, I just don’t think it will be necessary.

Since I don’t think the vig is Pyro, I think either him or a no elim is our best options.

As Kanna said, he’s been mason hunting the whole damn game. I told myself if Starcrossed dies, Pyro is probably the last scum. Thanks for taking the bait Titus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pooky hard sr Kid but Kanna had a gut feeling he was town, so I’m not making that mistake twice.

[Nancy Drew 39]

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

You aren't going to generate enough clears to autowin.

That’s what you think. I already have two and Kanna has a third. Change my mind.

There’ a vig left in the vt claims and yes I was bluffing but I do actually have a strongwilled loyal/disloyal shot I can use up until the night before Elo, I just don’t think it will be necessary.

Since I don’t think the vig is Pyro, I think either him or a no elim is our best options.

As Kanna said, he’s been mason hunting the whole damn game. I told myself if Starcrossed dies, Pyro is probably the last scum. Thanks for taking the bait Titus.

Nancy, your bluffs are terrible and you really should stop.

I told them to claim vig, to see what would happen obviously. Believe what you want to believe. I still do have an unused one shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it's scummy to take a very political readslist and then insist on being trusted. I do still think you're town,

you're just being scummy town

rn

If I had a dollar every time I heard a buddy say this. lololol

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ok. Good luck with that. I need a good laugh.

Let's continue.

Also, technically, you aren't allowed to quote mason PT posts but I'll let it slide as it doesn't confirm anyone.

What part of I said I got permission first did you miss?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ok. Good luck with that. I need a good laugh.

Let's continue.

Also, technically, you aren't allowed to quote mason PT posts but I'll let it slide as it doesn't confirm anyone.

What part of I said I got permission first did you miss?

I presumed that was from Starcrossed and the mods would tell you no. I'll have to take that up with them later as it's not gamebreaking here but still kinda wrong. Can't put the genie back in the bottle though.

I specifically asked Alisae if I needed to paraphrase it since I already had Kanna’s permission. As you said, it doesn’t confirm anyone, so it just saved me work. Had e refused I would have just done the same as what I did in The Shape of Water with the hood but the entire point of that rule is to not unfairly confirm a slot, which is obviously impossible here. We know I’m town stump and Starcrossed flipped mason, so what even possible ethical transgression could even have been committed in this case?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do you really care so much @Titus? Would it seriously have made even a damn bit of difference had I just paraphrased the entire thing?

Other than make more work for me, what else possible difference could it have possibly made had I just paraphrased it? I’m extremely certain that had I done that pre-flip. mod obviously would have said “no”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It takes away the miscommunication scums thrive in by paraphrasing. I don't think it'll have much impact here, so I'll save ny grumbles for post game.

It would have made 0 difference because I’m confirmed and now obviously so is Starcrossed. In contrast, in The Shape of Water, I wasn’t conformed and there was a very small but still possible chance I could have been lying about the hood. I obviously wasn’t but direct quoting from my hood with flipped town!Gamma and flipped scum!Tayl0r would still have unfairly compromised that game because I wasn’t confitown in that. Here by contrast, both me and Starcrossed were confitown at the time I posted that but I made sure to check with the mods first just in case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dunn will protect you tonight and Titus will play Russian roulette if you die.

I think game probably ends with Pyro flip. I think Titus is actually way more upset about Kanna’s Pyro read. Pyro/Olaf kept saying things like Starcrossed is either mason or scum. Pooky was legit convinced for awhile that he was a PT cop because of that.

If you seriously think a player is EITHER a mason or scum, you don’t hardpush them. That’s extremely different than Dunn unvoting W & P because I made it sound like they might be a mason. Even yesterday, Pyro like Sarah with her fake mason gambit was still mason hunting. He said he needed to lock it down or something? But why yesterday? No one else was asking me that because it’s just not something that occurs to town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Attempting to deceive Titus via the setup seems a waste of time given she should probably know the most about it -- as well as the mechanics behind the versus series as a whole, don't you think?

Mmm, I have more things I want to say to Kanna's case but i think it would be wise to let Pyro go first

Had Starcrossed mason claimed, they would have died > Fey and since I believe she was wrongly defending Pyro, she probably would have pushed for Clidd. I think either Kid/Dunn townflip soft confitowns the other because bus drive is now confirmed to have happened on Night 2, 3 and very probably 4. Dunn will obviously protect you tonight and your death will confitown him because of bus driver.

VCA spews PB town as well as Krazy initially wanting him “gunchecked”.

I know that Fey said that Clidd was never in danger but that’s not how you treat a buddy in this kind of setup.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Omg I asked for 24 hours and only 8 have passed, at least have the decency of say 'let's end the day after Papa comes back', but no, keep going with the 'let's move on', ignoring my request. This is @Italiano, 5uffering and Krazy.

Obvious town post.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You know, I thought i would die given i have a slight possibility to detect bussed targets -- which, also has the possibility to clear them if the bus driver cannot self target. They do not seem particularly concerned over this scenario, so i might take that as confirmation the bus driver can target themself.

That, or the slight benefit my role provides doesn't override how I am a bit less likely to turn on the driver than Star was. Perhaps this information is not so useful.

I am actually just going to pose this question because i will likely forget it later: If we're going to go with this mason-hunting line of thought, why was Star not executed by Olaf sooner? Or perhaps actually since there were plenty of other good NK targets, why did Olaf not quit with the mason-hunting style posts sooner? I believe their mason identity was made clear before the vig claim. Even as early as D3 with their reaction to my message it seemed quite possible. They also became the only unclaimed player on... D4 perhaps? Seems unecessary.

This doesn't disqualify olaf as scum, but it does make me question that particular line of thought

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Of course, I agree the Fey kill was quite agiven for scum to make.

Hm, backpedaling on this a bit, Fey is of course a very valid kill option, although part of me wonders why Pyro would want me to last the longest rather than Fey.

A distraction, maybe, given neither Fey or I would make it to final 3 so he couldn't have her available at the last critical moment. Perhaps the short-term "I would never kill Fey" was more valuable.

I'm going in circles on that issue -- need to nap on it!

What I am sure of is that Pyro's stances towards Kid were somewhat odd.. He missed that my plan to clear Kid would not actually work. He noticed the same thing I did with regards to Titus, she seemed concerned about me accidentally thinking Kid is town which made no sense if Kid were her actual last scum standing. But then he hand-waved probably the strongest defense which was the Even-night claim. Weird

Fey died > you I think because I’ve made it clear from the getgo that I’m never eliming her, so scum maybe thought you were more pushable? Also no actual evidence of bus driver N5, since you reached your target. However, you were locktown after Sarah flipped.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My theory is had we limmed Clidd > Kid, Starcrossed might still have died or perhaps you might have possibly?

But Dunn would be a lot more pushable. Same thing in reverse with a Dunn town flip. Either flip soft confirms the other’s odd/even claim because scum would have needed to leash the bus driver to EITHER odd or even nights but not both and we now know Kid wasn’t lying about protecting Morty and Rick on N2.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Basically Kid townflip proves there’s an even PR in this setup and since we have concrete proof now that bus driver’s ungated, it obviously can’t be Dunn.

So all I really need to do is townlock PB and game is won. Kanna who was right about Kid already townlocked Clidd.

Kanna told me in Discord that Pyro wasn’t joking enough which is actually a pretty reliable scumtell for him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And remember Krazy saying that he needed to get Noraa “out of [his] head”, which is the basic reason he gave for pushing Clidd? And also remember that I said she was setting up Clidd to get a fake inno on one of the vt claims? Well, Noraa wasn’t referring to Sarah. She had Pyro in her PoE. It was Pyro Krazy wanted to fake inno by miselimling Clidd. Clidd/Toog townflips leads to Krazy saying let’s ignore Noraa’s PoE if anyone tried to push him. It also makes sense that Pyro would get the most important scum role because he is hands down, the best damn deep wolf on the entire team.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm undecided on Dunnstral this far

Why are you afraid to townread me?

Should I be? Reading back, I do like your take on the wagon formation, and I like your prodding onto Sherlock.

It feels like you keep saying I'm null like you have reservations about me in some way.

Do you have any particular feelings toward the people trying to figure out who you are an alt of?

I haven't seen anything from you that I find scummy if that's what you're asking.

I find the speculation about my identity amusing. I like you, so I'll confirm or deny any one guess you have if you have one.

Nah I don't/can't alt guess and don't care to out you either, that wasn't where I was leading with that

I was under the impression that the stumps knew all the alts in the game, but upon review of the rules it doesn't say that anywhere. I believe this was something that happened in the last game and I'm not sure if the tradition has been carried over

So I'm looking at these guys alt guessing and I'm wondering what it means for their alignment.

Here's the townslip.

Also if you read over D1, Dunn was pushing two confirmed scum, bot S&W and W&P

Yes scum/mason Dunn would obviously have known this.

Scum rarely points out townslips ftr because they either aren’t actually looking for them or it’s against their interest to point that out. In last year’s TM, I hard tr Hectic for correctly pointing out my obvious townslip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If I had to doubt my townreads:

clidd: the most solid argument is that Krazy did want this elimmed because clidd is great as town and it's a solid strategy to get rid of him as soon as possible, especially if the other possible eliminations are not strong players (like Italiano or 5uffering), and by "strong" I don't mean 'bad', but players who you want to keep around so you can eliminate later. clidd is not like them, he gets harder to eliminate as the game goes on. If you get rid of that interaction 'cause "hey it's scum, it's WIFOM!", then yeah, clidd could be scum because of what he has been pushing has been constantly incorred iirc, from start to finish. Want to scumread clidd? Call him out on a BoP.

Dunn: the only time I have imagined Dunn as scum is because of mechanics. One of Kid/Dunn could perfectly be scum because of the setup, if not both messing with us. But Kid looks worse, everytime.

Fey: I don't think so, pal. (Maybe if you want me to stretch it, it could be that the nightskip by Fey was not really Fey, but it was Titus; Titus got a 1-shot dayvig by exchanging it with a nightskip, and they're using it to give one if her teammates a solid fakeclaim. Fey is the bus driver! Yeah, see? Makes no sense)

Kanna: I've been saying it since I repped in, they're town and I'm great reading her. This is conftown so I'm not even bothering.

Morning Tweet: being a messenger is practically being a VT so it's not her role what makes her town, but I think that if the scumteam already had suspicions about Kanna's role (and that's why the first message was directed at her), then I think Kanna would be dead already to avoid having a conftown. I don't really have any concerns about MT right now, I really liked her posts today, so I don't have any doubts about her.

So as you can see, every reasoning to try to scumread my townreads are weak if not inexistent. Instead, the rest of the playerlist, my PoE, have a much more solid ground.

Pyro, for instance, has been constantly pushing Kanna and Pooky to make them claim. I still believe that Battle Mage's wagon formed in part because he was partially scumreading Pyro, so he was the best counterwagon to W&P

.

Sarah's V I B I N G aesthetic and trying to slip away by going with the consensus are the biggest reasons to scumread her, and that reasons are bigger than anything I said about my townreads.

And Kid well, I think how Gamma tried to approach this game was scummy. Not much to say about that without re reading again.

Wow! PB’s ISO is practically a treasure trove of towniness.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So vig targets on Saudade, W & P, Clidd.

nancy, if i may make a suggestion, please don't ask clidd to be vigged, he's really towny

~mitsuha

Kanna has never wavered from this, I have trouble believing that the slot designated to be next in the PoE kills his strongest defender.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 25

• 5uffering
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(94), Gamma Emerald(172), 5uffering(174), War and Peace(39) )
  F- 5
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 3 ( SaraharaS(36), Morty and Rick(139), Dunnstral(73), Titus(148) )
  F- 6
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 3 ( Sherlock and Watson(208), Nancy Drew 39(538), Pink Ball(203), olaf(197) )
  F- 6
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 1 ( Fey(3) )
  F- 8
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 1 ( ItalianoVD(68) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Morning Tweet
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 4 ( Morning Tweet(162), Starcrossed(72), Red Eye Knights(26), Toogeloo(38) )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Lololol, one flipped scum on 5uffering, Italiano and Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 18

• Pink Ball
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(1), ItalianoVD(1), Sherlock and Watson(4), War and Peace(5) )
  F- 5
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 2 ( Fey(3), Dunnstral(34) )
  F- 7
  
  
  5uffering
  ----------- 2 ( Starcrossed(5), Morty and Rick(27) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 1 ( Pink Ball(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 1 ( 5uffering(12) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( Titus(36) )
  F- 9
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 7 ( Batsunami(40), Gamma Emerald(77), SaraharaS(7), Red Eye Knights(6), Toogeloo(13), olaf(78), Nancy Drew 39(111) )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

2 flipped scum on PB.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 19

• 5uffering
  ----------- 3 ( Starcrossed(5), Sherlock and Watson(32), Morty and Rick(68) )
  F- 6
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 2 ( Fey(3), Dunnstral(34) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 2 ( 5uffering(56), olaf(81) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 1 ( War and Peace(5) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 1 ( Pink Ball(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( Titus(36) )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 8 ( Batsunami(100), Gamma Emerald(115), SaraharaS(7), Red Eye Knights(6), clidd(73), ItalianoVD(16), Toogeloo(13), Nancy Drew 39(178) )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Thanks @Titus for spewing Clidd town. I went through every single VC in the game and every single of of Titus’ votes were on town or she wasn’t voting. She has never once voted any of S & W, W & P or Sarah. So what are the odds here that Clidd is the sole exception to this?