Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[Black]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Black]

VOTE: cook

[Black]

join me on the light side

VOTE: dannflor

VOTE: Dannflor

[Black]

Ya'll are wild with the solves. I don't have any reads based on pg 1

[Black]

LG feels townie

57 kinda pinged me but Naerys pings me a lot when she's town so I'm not really taking it too seriously

[Black]

LG feels townie

57 kinda pinged me but Naerys pings me a lot when she's town so I'm not really taking it too seriously

57 is Save the Dragons though right?

Yeah I'm high. It was 59

[Black]

I don't reallly think Light has been towny.

Do you think she's been scummy?

[Black]

I don't reallly think Light has been towny.

Do you think she's been scummy?

yes thats what i meant basically

I know you hate it when people ask you to explain reads but I'd like for you to explain this one if you could

[Black]

VOTE: gob

[Black]

I think town!gob would be way more wary of me after our last game together. Instead he's just ignoring me. He knows I'm town

[Black]

im trying to figure out where gob is going

He's not going anywhere. He's trying to seem busy. He made an early game solve with LG in it and now he's scumreading her without reason because he feels locked into that solve

More votes on gob please

[Black]

im trying to figure out where gob is going

He's not going anywhere. He's trying to seem busy. He made an early game solve with LG in it and now he's scumreading her without reason because he feels locked into that solve

More votes on gob please

Why not Naerys

I could go Naerys but I have a much stronger feeling about gob

[Black]

i think black and gob are both town

vaguely like STD

i kinda like naerys' defense regardless of whether it is factually true or not

Why is gob town

[Black]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

I actually townread everyone from Drew above.

Cool, will you help me fade gob then?

[Black]

I know you hate it when people ask you to explain reads but I'd like for you to explain this one if you could

Do you think this is AI for gob?

Nah, he doesn't like to explain reads as either alignment iirc

[Black]

light_ganski

T-Bone

Doctor Drew

davesaz

gob

Cook

Naerys

Black

usesPython

Ranger

Dannflor

Ausuka

I almost want to scumread you for using this format. Just organize them by color like a normal human being

[Black]

Ausuka seems town as well

Agreed

She scares me though

[Black]

Cool, will you help me fade gob then?

I'd prefer a deepwolf before I'm killed.

I'll settle for a bus if need be.

You sound like me

I'm not interested in voting Dann today. gob wagon has plenty of room though *pats the seat next to me*

[Black]

Ausuka seems town as well

Agreed

She scares me though

why?

She's really good at being scum. Her and Dannflor give me similar vibes where I always feel like they are playing me in the back of my mind

[Black]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

I actually townread everyone from Drew above.

Why is Black so low

Are you townreading me?

[Black]

You are not on our radar, you're kinda just off doing your own thing

I feel like this should make you feel one way or another about me

[Black]

If there's a scum wagon going on right now then you're probably town for fixating on gob instead

What makes you think gob isn't the scum wagon?

[Black]

I think I'm comfortable calling light ganski town

Should I post this in the main thread too or will that confirm Python's hero solve?

[Black]

fluffy pink balloon feels like LHF to me a bit

If he's LHF then why am I the only one pushing him

[Black]

black what do you even see with regards to gob

I think town!gob would be way more wary of me after our last game together. Instead he's just ignoring me. He knows I'm town

im trying to figure out where gob is going

He's not going anywhere. He's trying to seem busy. He made an early game solve with LG in it and now he's scumreading her without reason because he feels locked into that solve

More votes on gob please

To elaborate further, I almost made gob retire in Open 892 by tricking him into thinking I'm town. He was very distraught about it and flamed me and just generally reacted very poorly to losing the game. I think town!gob would be

way

more interested in solving me this game after that. Instead it just feels like he's tip-toeing around my slot

It's not the strongest read in the world but as far as gut reads go I feel pretty good about it

[Black]

Black I think you're scumreading gob for reads but his reads were a reaction test instead of something he believed in which is why they didn't make sense to you

That's just the supporting argument for why I'm scumreading gob. The main reason is ^

[Black]

can i ask you to give thoughts about any other slot in the game, black

I mean I feel like I have, but I don't feel as strongly about my other thoughts as I do about gob

LG/Ausuka are probably my top townleans. I think you might be town but we both know how that goes

Ranger kinda feels like misguided town

I could vote Naerys or python today

[Black]

black what do you even see with regards to gob

I think town!gob would be way more wary of me after our last game together. Instead he's just ignoring me. He knows I'm town

im trying to figure out where gob is going

He's not going anywhere. He's trying to seem busy. He made an early game solve with LG in it and now he's scumreading her without reason because he feels locked into that solve

More votes on gob please

To elaborate further, I almost made gob retire in Open 892 by tricking him into thinking I'm town. He was very distraught about it and flamed me and just generally reacted very poorly to losing the game. I think town!gob would be

way

more interested in solving me this game after that. Instead it just feels like he's tip-toeing around my slot

It's not the strongest read in the world but as far as gut reads go I feel pretty good about it

Like i said before this is a really conceited way of reading anyone. Its totally wrong

What is your read on me?

[Black]

Can you explain why

[Black]

fluffy pink balloon feels like LHF to me a bit

If he's LHF then why am I the only one pushing him

its just that i feel like gob is always being pushed for being...well, gob

I'm not pushing him for "being gob" at all though

This could be a gob partner

[Black]

VOTE: Naerys

[Black]

Why is Black so low

Because I don't think this is Black as town, I spot signs of a Black powerwolf performance, and I think Black is scum with one or both of Dannflor+gob by interactions.
Plus, I've reasons for townreading most players; Black isn't among them.

What is this meta read based off of? We've played one game together and I was town

[Black]

{ranger}

{ausuka, davesaz}
{black, t-bone, save the dragons}

{dannflor}

{gob, python}

{naerys}

Not enough info on drew and cook

pink and light green are absolutely cursed colors, so is trying to read white on mafSilver

Imagine not using mafBlack

[Black]

Apologies I'll do it w headings next time

I thought it was pretty

[Black]

MY EYES

[Black]

@mod: V/LA until Monday

[Black]

I'll try to post some later

[Black]

Kinda awk to take a 2 day v/la with a 2 day deadline

My bad, next time I'll cancel my trip so I can play forum mafia

[Black]

It’s worth noting Black did this as scum.

I don't base my real life schedule around what alignment I roll in a mafia game. It's kind of bullshit for you to assume this or any of my V/LAs are tactical

[Black]

If I have to be replaced then so be it

[Black]

Scum team might be ranger+light+python

wtf mindmeld with nairys

So why arent we voting python?

i am

Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type

why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?

Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.

I think gob has a point though. LG went from the top wagon to a vanity wagon this late into D1 even though they are her bottom two scumreads. I haven't had the chance to look at the case yet but I saw the readslist

[Black]

{ausuka, ranger}
{save the dragons}
{black}
{usespython, t-bone, dannflor, doctor drew}
---
{davesaz, cook}
---
{naerys}
{gob}

I'll think more after I've slept

PEdit: I think you're scummier.

Why is gob scummier? I'm not saying I disagree with you but I'm curious what you think

[Black]

Scum team might be ranger+light+python

wtf mindmeld with nairys

So why arent we voting python?

i am

Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type

why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?

Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.

Thank you for reminding me of the contradiction

VOTE: Gob

Oh hi. I hope your pseudo-V/LA is going well. I'm here for 5 min before I pass tf out

[Black]

Don't yellow M&M me

[Black]

{ausuka, ranger}
{save the dragons}
{black}
{usespython, t-bone, dannflor, doctor drew}
---
{davesaz, cook}
---
{naerys}
{gob}

This is a good list

[Black]

Don't yellow M&M me

Your defense of Gob is worthy of it

I wouldn't say I'm defending him, I just see where he's coming from with the question

[Black]

Don't yellow M&M me

Your defense of Gob is worthy of it

I wouldn't say I'm defending him, I just see where he's coming from with the question

Why would scum not ride the bigger wagon so close to eod? Especially when they scum read them......unless are buddies

Why would town call them out for said vote on them(speaking of gob) in this regard?

I think Light is been pretty townie, or is fooling me good.

If gob is town then I could get behind a nae/light yeet

I think you think I'm calling LG scummy for this. I'm not really. I think it's scummy if Naerys flips scum or if we get close to a no elimination but I've been townreading LG otherwise

You also seem to be implying I think gob is town which isn't true. I kinda doubt Naerys is his partner now though

[Black]

VOTE: gob

[Black]

Ranger how strong is your scumread on me and outside of associations with Dannflor/gob what is it based off of

[Black]

Ranger is playing completely different than the game I played with her. I don't really think that means she's scum for a variety of reasons but that's the thought that came to my mind skimming some posts on the last page

Is anyone super familiar with Ranger? How often is she this dug in and engaged

[Black]

Also why is T-Bone scummy tl;dr. I feel like he has been mostly jokes but he's mostly flown under my radar so far

[Black]

Is anyone super familiar with Ranger? How often is she this dug in and engaged

she's town. it's very common for Ranger ime

Are you familiar with her scumgame at all?

[Black]

VOTE: usesPython

Briefly skimmed over why people are voting for me and their vote feels the worst by far. It feels like they are just trying to make any wagon possible happen instead of actually trying to catch scum

I'll be back later to fully catch up

[Black]

I'm here but I'm at work so I can't really read everything I missed in detail and I probably won't be able to before the deadline

Jackson's confidence in scum!me feels pretty unnatural. The case is pretty bad but I feel a sense of pride or something from Jackson in that he thinks he caught me so I don't really think the push is scum motivated. I'm tinfoiling a Jackson/python team where Jackson comes in and sees the leading wagon on his buddy and then tries this overconfident last hurrah to get something else going. It feels like they crunched the numbers to see what counter wagon was most viable to python's. I was townreading Ausuka for the most part so I don't really think this is the world we live in but the nature of Jackson's/python's push worries me. I also don't like how Jackson is trying to call me scummy for self-preservation when python has been in self-preservation mode for like 20 pages now. The double-standard there feels noteworthy

Even if they're not partnered I just feel like python is scum. They've been very reactive this game instead of they're usual scumhunting proactive self and I didn't really like our interactions

[Black]

Jackson why do you townread python

[Black]

why python

no taste for a tbone wagon?

VOTE: cook

I don't think light is getting limmed today.

VOTE: tbone

VOTE: black

This could be a python partner

[Black]

Python is doing his self pres actively and never seemed to try to hide they were doing it. It was pure, yours wasn’t.

I wasn't hiding, I was out of town all weekend until this morning. Fuck you

[Black]

I've been sus of python since our first interaction and our second interaction wasn't any better. This isn't just a self-pres vote out of no where. I think they flip scum

[Black]

I’m sayiny their self pres was shown on their sleeve, unmasked. Yours was hidden under trying to show logic as a reason to vote.

I mean yeah there is a little self-pres involved but there are reasons why I think python is scum. I don't think it's scummy of me to show my work

[Black]

UNVOTE:

i don't think i'm as convinced on black as i thought i was

What even convinced you in the first place? And why do you townread python?

[Black]

Already explained it to hem

Can you link me the posts, I'd like to read them

[Black]

T-Bone
Doctor Drew
davesaz
humaneatingmonkey

I would prefer python over all of these but out of this pool I could vote Dave, maybe Drew. I'm having a hard time recalling anything Drew has done this game though. I don't even know who the monkey is

[Black]

Ok the monkey is Cook. Yeah I could throw them off a cliff

[Black]

UNVOTE:

i don't think i'm as convinced on black as i thought i was

What even convinced you in the first place? And why do you townread python?

you know it was so long ago that i don't remember

i think it was mostly because i had you as null but i've liked your recent posting

i don't think python's as stuffy as people are making them out to be i think they actually are pretty open with their thoughts and their jovial nature makes me feel they are more relaxed, not stressed making me think they could be town

I think python is trying to hide behind his jokes. And I agree that they don't seem stressed but that just makes me think they're scum even more. I think town!python gets stressed over trying to solve the game and find scum. I'm not seeing that at all this game

[Black]

I'll be checking in up until the deadline fwiw

[Black]

i think all four slots have been very low content and not really doing much to advance the gamestate

You play this way all the time

Why is python not even in your lim pool? You thought they were scummy earlier in the game. Open thoughts/jovial nature doesn't feel like great reasons to remove them from your PoE completely

[Black]

They’ve been treating gob like fodder. Up to the point where I repped in and wasn’t there to push it, they were relentlessly pushing gob to the extent that I would assume more than 75% of the posts since the inherent shift to gob was exactly that, pushing gob.

Why is tunneling scummy? This feels like a weird perspective for you to have considering 90% of your ISO is talking about/pushing me

[Black]

A lot of it was trying to find and gather people to vote gob more so than I would deem truly analysing him

A lot of it? Yeah? A LOT of my ISO was trying to find people to vote gob? You're delusional

[Black]

If so, she’s doing it in a completely different way than all the games I know of her

How so?

[Black]

These don’t read as well even remotely trying to assess the game. It feels like you have an outcome you want and you’re pushing it. Mix in some naerys push and that’s ur ISO

The game wasn't even a day old when I wrote these posts. What should I have been assessing at that time if not a really strong gut read I had?

[Black]

vc

Oh, wait, we don't need a VC lol.

Anyway, POST 1000 IS MINE!!!

FUCK

[Black]

Going to add to this. I don't particularly like JV's push of Black. I know you read gob as town and thus, Black's preferred lim is wrong, but I don't like the way that JV is almost working backwards from this conclusion to go "aha Black is tunneling town, this is scum behavior!" while twirling a baton.

I agree with this. People who have played way more games with me and are much better at reading me are telling him that I might be town and he just laughs them off or makes some joke instead of reevaluating

I really want to just autoflip him if python flips scum but that would probably be a bad play

[Black]

I’m joking around a lot but that’s just cuz I’m really anxious. I’m at work, on mobile and trying to explain deeper thoughts without the ability to really articulate it

Why are you really anxious? I guess having your scumbuddy as the leading wagon would do that huh

[Black]

Going to add to this. I don't particularly like JV's push of Black. I know you read gob as town and thus, Black's preferred lim is wrong, but I don't like the way that JV is almost working backwards from this conclusion to go "aha Black is tunneling town, this is scum behavior!" while twirling a baton.

I agree with this. People who have played way more games with me and are much better at reading me are telling him that I might be town and he just laughs them off or makes some joke instead of reevaluating

I really want to just autoflip him if python flips scum but that would probably be a bad play

You're gonna lose me at complaining about jokes because that's 50% of my mafia site ISO

I'm not complaining about the jokes really. I don't mind jokes. I just think if he's scum then that's his way of brushing off the comments so he doesn't have to reevaluate me

[Black]

Going to add to this. I don't particularly like JV's push of Black. I know you read gob as town and thus, Black's preferred lim is wrong, but I don't like the way that JV is almost working backwards from this conclusion to go "aha Black is tunneling town, this is scum behavior!" while twirling a baton.

I agree with this. People who have played way more games with me and are much better at reading me are telling him that I might be town and he just laughs them off or makes some joke instead of reevaluating

I really want to just autoflip him if python flips scum but that would probably be a bad play

I’m allowed to have reads without needing a backlog of games with you. This feels incredibly disingenuous to say to me. A persons skill does not rely on said backlog. I feel kinda insulted

Sure, you're allowed to have reads. But if you're actually trying to solve the game then you should be more interested in listening to the reads of other people that know me better. You've been incredibly dismissive of them in a way that makes me think you're not pushing me in good faith

[Black]

I’m just gonna take a step away. Black saying fuck you kinda upset me and I thought I’d just overlook it but now things feel personal and I don’t want that from Black. She’s one of my favourite people here I wanna have fun when playing with her

I'm sorry. The fuck you did come after I misunderstood your comment, so I want to apologize for reading incorrectly and getting upset

The feeling is mutual btw. I really like you

[Black]

This isn't personal. I'm just having a hard time determining if your push is tunneled town or bad faith scum and I get annoyed when either of those types of pushes happen to me

[Black]

black I think JV is probably town too even if usesPython flips scum

Yeah maybe. Ausuka was townie. JV feels like he could be tunneled town, like I personally recognize the behavior. My tin foil is like a little creature in my head telling me that he could be scum though

I guess we can cross that bridge after python flips. Probably a waste of time to entertain the idea atm

[Black]

Okay I didn’t want to say this but you all clearly missed the hints.

We're not mislimming a Mason today; get off of Python.

Are you claiming Masons with Python or are you just saying they dropped hints about being mason? If it's the latter then what hints are you seeing?

[Black]

That's a good point. Python wouldn't assume they are dead if they are a Mason, and they would have claimed by now

[Black]

Well I guess they could have been trying to make scum doubt they were a mason with that statement. I still think they would have claimed it by now though

[Black]

I hate that Ranger dropped this bomb and then vanished

[Black]

This isn't completely damning or anything but when python was scum in Halloween Mafia they just stopped posting until they were faded

[Black]

I hate that ranger did this now, made me paranoid

I hate that ranger did this now, made me paranoid

the hilarity fades quick

[Black]

As long as I get 1113 we gucci

Pedit: NO WTF

[Black]

I guess gob is probably town. There's some worries here but they're not substantial so I'm trying to block them out for now

What is the case on LG?

[Black]

so lim in [light_ganski, davesaz, drew, tbone] probably in that order

If we replace LG with StD this is the group of people I have the weakest reads on. I want to look closer at these slots

[Black]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Black]

VC 1.15

Votecount 1.15

usesPython (4):

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey

gob (3):

light_ganski, Black, Ranger

Dannflor (2):

usesPython, Doctor Drew

T-Bone (2):

davesaz, Save The Dragons

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

JacksonVirgo (1):

JacksonVirgo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

Why would Python say this? I didn't even townread gob.
Then JV and Python started the Black counterwagon - with daveas.
Why won't they just do gob - if scum? Is gob scum?
Why is Python so sad?

I need someone with triple-digit IQ to weigh in on this.

I think there's a very small chance that gob spent the entire day pushing python as a bussing/distancing thing but I think gob is probably just town

I would assume that python calculated who all would vote for me just like they did with gob

I'm not really sure who all even scumread me enough to vote for me but they were able to get Dave, Ranger, and StD on board. gob, Dann, and LG townread me at the time. I don't think Naerys was? Maybe python was hoping to get her specifically to switch off of them. With her, T-Bone, and Drew they might have had the numbers

[Black]

T-Bone's intent declaration felt weird. Let me find it to make sure I'm remembering correctly

[Black]

VOTE: black

Intent to hammer, I am hovering around this thread. (Yes I know no one is at e-1 yet)

StD's vote tied our wagons at 5 votes each and that's when T-Bone declares intent. It almost feels like the intent was made on me even though python and I were both at 5

Looking back on this I don't know why scum!StD would move back to python after this when my fade was absolutely possible. If there is scum on the wagon then it's probably dave

[Black]

I think the way Dave positioned around the EoD was pretty scummy. He tried to help make my wagon happened but ended up hammering for the town cred once it fell flat

I also think Ranger is probably just town here. I don't see scum pulling that gambit the way she did. It wouldn't be a very good play at all. I think it's more likely that she genuinely believed python was a Mason

[Black]

Anyway there's a few slots I need to look at closer so I'll be doing that in the morning

[Black]

I'm not really sure who all even scumread me enough to vote for me but they were able to get Dave, Ranger, and StD on board. gob, Dann, and LG townread me at the time. I don't think Naerys was? Maybe python was hoping to get her specifically to switch off of them. With her, T-Bone, and Drew they might have had the numbers

I just remembered Drew gave me the yellow M&M for "defending" gob so he was publicly suspicious of me. All python needed was for Naerys to switch over and that would have been it. I'm guessing that's what Jackson was trying to do

[Black]

VOTE: Black

VOTE: Dannflor

Nah I hate that post from Drew

Literally why wait until I unvote Dann to start a flash wagon on Dann?

Flash wagon? Nah I just thought it felt off so I voted there in the moment

I want neither though

VOTE: Black

Yeah I can in an hour or two

Thoughts on Ganski?

I’m ready to thunderdome Black

This progression is scummy. Jackson is trying to get Dann and LG counter wagons going despite supposedly having enough confidence in scum!me that he's willing to thunderdome me. It feels like a second-hand flailing type of reaction to python getting run up. I think town!Jackson would probably just stay on me here. It feels like fake confidence

[Black]

HEM feels infinitely more townie than Cook did although some of this read may be influenced by agreeing with him on Jackson

[Black]

I would assume that python calculated who all would vote for me just like they did with gob

I'm not really sure who all even scumread me enough to vote for me but they were able to get Dave, Ranger, and StD on board. gob, Dann, and LG townread me at the time. I don't think Naerys was? Maybe python was hoping to get her specifically to switch off of them. With her, T-Bone, and Drew they might have had the numbers

In this situation where Python and JV are both scum - why couldn't they have just pushed town!gob instead? With the 6 people Python listed, it would have been seven if JV hopped on board with a "meh, we needed an elim". Scum!JV didn't have to declare that they were voting gob over Python in #837 (unless it would have been suspicious because JV had townread gob before that statement).

Was there something happening at the time that made it look like gob wasn't happening (meaning the 6 people Python listed would not have followed-through with eliminating Gob)?

Hmm. That's a good point. I was barely around at the time so I don't have a good feel for the flow of the game around then. I don't think JV voting gob would look that suspicious if they had framed it as a consolidation vote to prevent a no lim

This would probably imply either scum!gob or town!JV. Unless they thought the path to fading me would be easier for some reason

[Black]

VC 1.16

Votecount 1.16

usesPython (4):

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey

gob (3):

light_ganski, Black, Ranger

Black (3):

JacksonVirgo, usesPython, davesaz

T-Bone (1):

Save The Dragons

Dannflor (1):

Doctor Drew

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

I'm having a hard time believing all 3 scum started my wagon. So one of JV/Dave is probably town

[Black]

Maybe JV's gob read really threw a wrench in their plan so they had to pivot to me. All they needed was LG or Naerys to vote with them. Drew likely would have

I think this means Naerys can't be scum because she could have easily joined my wagon to save python

[Black]

VC 1.16

Votecount 1.16

usesPython (4):

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey

gob (3):

light_ganski, Black, Ranger

Black (3):

JacksonVirgo, usesPython, davesaz

T-Bone (1):

Save The Dragons

Dannflor (1):

Doctor Drew

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

I'm having a hard time believing all 3 scum started my wagon. So one of JV/Dave is probably town

Light black dave drew may contain both scum

Why am I in your solve if you are sheeping Dann? I was Dann's strongest townread

[Black]

What if Python tried to swing the vote to a buddy who they knew wouldn't have enough support to lim? Or for the distancing value?

I keep thinking about this. And if Python did try to distance themselves from Black for that deepwolf 360 no-scope credit, then this is dangerous shit. Especially if Python really did think they were a goner.

It should be a possibility fypov. I'm not conftown

[Black]

VC 1.16

Votecount 1.16

usesPython (4):

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey

gob (3):

light_ganski, Black, Ranger

Black (3):

JacksonVirgo, usesPython, davesaz

T-Bone (1):

Save The Dragons

Dannflor (1):

Doctor Drew

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

I'm having a hard time believing all 3 scum started my wagon. So one of JV/Dave is probably town

Light black dave drew may contain both scum

Why am I in your solve if you are sheeping Dann? I was Dann's strongest townread

Bcz i am bad at reading you and i am afraid of you

Fair

[Black]

VOTE: Tbone

I wouldn't mind a T-Bone fade but what are your thoughts on Jackson?

[Black]

In particular, if T-Bone were scum, I don’t think the usesPython wagon goes through. T-Bone reached L-2 yesterday, and was more expendable than Python. He had more suspicion than Python and the momentum was there. If he were scum, I'd expect for scum to favor eliminating him over Python, because T-Bone wasn’t as power wolf as Python.

I don't really think this is a good reason to clear T-Bone. I feel like python had more consistent suspicion on them throughout the day so I'm not really understanding the "expendable" thing. I could be misremembering but the T-Bone wagon felt more like a spur of the moment thing whereas there were like 4-5 people that hard scumread python pretty much the entirety of D1. There's also the possibility of T-Bone being a scum PR if they have one. It would make sense for scum to pivot to a goon in that scenario

[Black]

I'd never let myself get limmed day 1 as scum but otherwise I don't have an issue with the analysis.

What is the point of saying this

[Black]

Black... this set up is open.

That looks like a fake as hell attempt at a town slip I'm not gonna lie.

Oh oops. It wasn't fake, I'm just an idiot

[Black]

I'd never let myself get limmed day 1 as scum but otherwise I don't have an issue with the analysis.

What is the point of saying this

I love talking up my scum game. But also I think it's a useful tool for me to get through to the meta based players.

It feels like you're using it as a way to argue that you're town but you didn't get faded D1 so I don't understand your point

[Black]

I never argue that I'm town. Come at me with your scumread, I already asked you once!

I don't have a case on you if that's what you're looking for. It's mostly gut and PoE

I think your interactions with the game around the deadline feel off. You declared intent in 933 almost immediately after my wagon tied python's. I think you were setting yourself up to hammer me if I got one more vote. StD puts python at e-1 in 1036, 30 minutes go by and you declare intent again in 1050. Then you disappear for about 2 hours until someone else hammers. It just feels performative in a scummy way. Like why didn't you just hammer python? It feels like you might have been playing for a no-lim angle or something

Then you come into today saying "oh I was hovering around the thread to make sure a no-lim didn't happen" but you declared intent twice and still just kinda sat there and did nothing

Dann had you in his solve and I think he may have been onto something there

[Black]

I'd never let myself get limmed day 1 as scum but otherwise I don't have an issue with the analysis.

What is the point of saying this

I love talking up my scum game. But also I think it's a useful tool for me to get through to the meta based players.

It feels like you're using it as a way to argue that you're town but you didn't get faded D1 so I don't understand your point

seems fine to me at a glance, Black. Just my opinion thoever

Why do you townread T-Bone?

[Black]

VOTE: monkey

The way monkeys slot jumped pn python doesnt sit right with me. Reads like scum bussing realizing there is no saving python.

I can't get on board with this. Monkey feels like he is genuinely trying to solve the game

I don't think you ever gave your thoughts on Jackson

[Black]

VOTE: monkey

The way monkeys slot jumped pn python doesnt sit right with me. Reads like scum bussing realizing there is no saving python.

I can't get on board with this. Monkey feels like he is genuinely trying to solve the game

I don't think you ever gave your thoughts on Jackson

I did since Jv is in my poool

Where did you post your pool? All I'm seeing is 1204 where you gave JV a pass because he was pushing me

What is your read on JV

[Black]

If Naerys is scum with python I feel like she would have just swapped to my wagon when it was 5v5. That probably would have been enough to save Python. It would have been 6v4 and all they would need after that was a T-Bone or Drew hammer

I'm not sure if Naerys even had a read on me but if she could have done then believably then I'm not sure why scum!her wouldn't

[Black]

this**

[Black]

my hot take is T-Bone also is.

Why though

[Black]

I think I know who Dann's partners might be but I'm not sure whether that is worth speculating out in the open

What do you think the benefits of speculating about the mason team are?

[Black]

Ranger is theorizing a Mason team with python that can't exist. I still think even speculating about 2 people being potential masons is probably not the move, but it's not the same as you wanting to openly discuss who Dann's partners are

[Black]

I think I know who Dann's partners might be but I'm not sure whether that is worth speculating out in the open

What do you think the benefits of speculating about the mason team are?

Something to do with Ranger's reads but it's not necessary now.

Were you trying to prove her wrong? Was it like a pride or a flex thing or was there actually something beneficial involved

Like I can see a world where you just wanted to let everyone know you had the right Mason solve but I can't think of any benefits to playing Guess the Masons. Scum can gauge the reactions around the discussion and narrow their targets down

[Black]

If Naerys is scum with python I feel like she would have just swapped to my wagon when it was 5v5. That probably would have been enough to save Python. It would have been 6v4 and all they would need after that was a T-Bone or Drew hammer

During the period the wagons were tied, was she around?
Was usesPython around?

That was only a couple of hours a time period.

The scum were clearly talking to each other near day end, likely on whether to try and save Python; they opted not to. Did they have the time to reach a consensus not to swap in that small timeframe?

I need to check myself; I doubt it’s there.

I think Naerys was around

I'm thinking of a few ways where my read could be wrong. Like if scum didn't think she could switch off believably or if they were committed to the bus cred. I just think there are better options today

[Black]

What are you on about exactly? I'd love to hear the theory of what you think I was trying to do

Well if you're scum then you were trying to get people to talk about who they think the Masons are. I'm not sure why'd you ask it as town unless you just don't understand the harm in role speculation, or if you think there's some benefit to discussing it

[Black]

I could compromise on Ranger but I'm still not sure if scum!her would try to save python in such a bold way. It's just not a play I would make as scum so it's hard for me to see someone else that seems to be very competent making that play

I really want to hear more from Jackson

[Black]

I read this game. To prove this i post my readlist:

Town:
light_ganski

Maybe Town
JacksonVirgo
Doctor Drew
davesaz

Null:
usesPython
T-Bone
Save The Dragons
gob

Mafia:
Black
humaneatingmonkey
Naerys
Dannflor
Ranger

Is this real? Why is Jackson so high?

[Black]

Who wants to form a towncore with me?

I am ready to push and lim the wolf

Black?

Why Ranger over Drew?

[Black]

Sounds kinky

Idk how to core with people but I think you are very likely town, so yeah I guess so

I need to ISO Drew because I can't remember anything he's done this game besides give me the yellow M&M

[Black]

smh

[Black]

Can I has towncore

I think you're probably town but gob is the President so he has final say

[Black]

My town core is probably like {gob, HEM, StD} and probably Naerys. Gob is my most confident townread which is ironic considering I really thought my gut read on him was accurate D1. I don't feel as good about the other 3 but I'm not interested in fading any of them today

Drew, Dave, and LG are slots I need to get a better grasp on

JV/T-Bone are the two I'd prefer to vote today. Ranger I'd be willing to consolidate on. With Ranger I've had a sneaking suspicion all game that she's mastermind scum trying to play us all. I kinda pushed that feeling down after everyone told me this is Ranger's town game. I still have a hard time seeing her gambit at the end of D1 coming from scum but maybe that was part of her plan. A TWTBAW route. If it had worked then python would still be here, so it would probably have been worth

[Black]

I guess LG is Enchant now so my hope of getting a better grasp there is probably misplaced. I do want to look over LG's ISO in more detail though

[Black]

I'm gonna start with Drew since he has a lot less posts

[Black]

Spoiler: Drew ISO

Drew's first few posts are jokes

There's an interaction with python in 86, 88 and 89 that feels strange. Python defends Drew by saying people can't scumcase him, Drew asks why not, and then python responds to him but is talking like they aren't responding to him with the whole "scumreading Drew is like a fine wine". I'm not sure why they don't say "scumreading

you

is like a fine wine." It's a weird perspective for python to have. Not super compelling partner evidence but if python was wary of interacting with their partner directly then they might have subconsciously used this verbiage

@Drew what was the townread on python in 369 about?

Drew invokes python in 377. This doesn't really feel partnered. Maybe if the plan was to interact a bunch for theatre I guess. It feels like a lot of Drew's posting is about Python around this point in the game

385 another open defense of python

391 joking with python

472 invoking python again. The amount of times Drew has talked to or mentioned python is starting to seem sus

I thought 516 was weird when I read it and I still think it's weird. Drew is completely misrepping me here, and I don't think he ever responded to me when I called him out on it

677 Drew continues his pressure on gob. I like dave's 660

@Drew what was your scumread on gob based on? I scumread him too at the time but my reasons were because of how he was interacting with my slot. I don't see any reasons for you to be suspicious of him here but maybe I'm missing it

I actually like 704 and it's the towniest post so far. It feels like Drew is thinking about the players on a deeper than surface level here

765 the threat to python to snap vote them feels bad

778 back to Gob when gob's wagon was tied 3-3 with python's. Could be scum trying to manipulate the wagons in the scum teams favor here

Drew gets pressure and switches back to Dann immediately in 786. What. This reeks of Drew knowing that going back to gob and making his wagon overtake python's was scummy

Drew's reasons for not voting python in 1216 are believable but they could still come from scum

1219 a little WIFOM here. I would like to look at Drew scumgames to see if this is actually true. Off the top of my head I know he didn't bus kyouko in a recent game together. He did try to bus StD in Wilson 7p, so there is some truth here

1272 - @Drew, does python's flip not make you feel any better about gob?

I'm not getting much in Drew's 1v1 with the monkey. Drew feels a little defensive but that's about it, probably NAI

tl;dr - Still unsure about Drew here but I have a much better feel for his slot than I did before. I would like Drew to answer some of these questions

[Black]

Hi are you mason

What kind of question is this

[Black]

Hi are you mason

What kind of question is this

a good question

I disagree completely

[Black]

Well we definitely dodged that bullet

[Black]

If you want to disregard Dannflor's desires, I’ll happily let you, and would love to interest you in a Naerys elimination. Dannflor didn’t properly assess her presence on UsesPython, so she is the scum he missed.

part of me kinda wants to get limmed and then spit to ur face after you see my flip

Yeah this feels like something town would say

[Black]

I think Jackson is scum, and I think the Grand Scum Plan was to get me eliminated while I was on V/LA

We saw python openly crunching the numbers on gob. They didn't have enough votes for whatever reason so the plan shifted to me, and it happened right after Jackson replaced in Sunday night. Jackson and python were both around Sunday night so they could have easily been cooking up something

Jackson's main reason for thinking I was scum was that I was pushing gob and not doing much else. Weak reasonings, especially considering he was strictly talking about my behavior in the first 24 hours of the game. He then proceeded to do exactly what he scumread me for: push me and not do much else

These were all the posts Jackson made calling me scummy and trying to recruit others to join while I was gone:

Spoiler: Jackson's confidence that I'm scum

I'm just gonna blast through it, I don't have time to be slow and in depth. I can clarify after the fact it people want it.

30 Black feels overly stiff.
90 getting pinged by what I would consider aNAI post? @Black if you remember this far back, can you place what pinged you here. You're also referring to Naerys but you're referencing a post by STD?

Ah you clarified that, makes more sense. I don't have thoughts either way about this now

95 gob being a pro gamer. If Ganski is a wolf, I really think Gob is Town. This also makes me feel better about my read but I'll try not to conf bias myself into a hole. Them following up on the read in 103 is also a really good sign to me.

106 Black immediately voting, I hope there's good reasoning for that because it looks kinda wack. The reasoning they gave in 123 was lacklustre. It feels like a chainsaw, if that's the right term. Unsure. Although their "more votes on gob please" feels pure (132). The read itself doesn't feel pure though, it feels greatly exaggerated for what it is to try and push them.

At this point in the catchup (as of 155). It'd be pretty hilarious but GTH the solve is Black, Ganski, Dannflor.

Ganski jumping onto Gob in 188 also is like not unexpected given my head canon. Ranger having Black/Dannflor in the scum-reads in 191 is a fun one, makes me feel nice.

Holy shit they're just spamming tierlists.

Black back on the "yo les do gob, lesduit". That's like majority of their posts it seems like at this point (270). Like literally every post of theirs up to 318 seems to have a gob push in it more likely than not.

Black asked why Gob town-reads her, he anwers and I don't see Black responding to Gob. Will post another thing if this was found later but this is just as bad if she didn't respond back. Cuz that would mean it was likely asked in a way to try and trap Gob even further but couldn't see much to work with. A few pages past and haven't seen it, if I missed it please point it out to me.

I aint reading that wallpost by Dann in 398

625 T-Bone "Yes but the tone of that question is meh" in regards to Dannflor I completely agree with. It felt antagonistic.


Spewed this out as fast as I could. Enjoy

Black is probably the most optimal elim from my reads. But cuz I wanna be a pro gamer and hero-shot a wolf immediately upon repping in I also want ganski.

I want either Black or Ganski. Either or I don't really care.
Python is a pretty lacklustre wagon.
Gob is Town
T-bone probably Town

You're all gettin' played fr fr

I am confident at least one of Black/Ganski is wolf tho

Deadline's coming up, can we get a kill pool from everyone in case there's a cool flashwagon hiding somewhere?

Cook/Dann/T-Bone/gob

Ganski/Black/Dannflor

I guess you gotta go then VOTE: usesPython

VOTE: Black

VOTE: Dannflor

Nah I hate that post from Drew

what's the case against the three top wagons

someone young, beautiful, intelligent, and charming talk me into voting one of them

I'd rather we move away from them all and go Black/Ganski

then why vote Dannflor, that's insane

The other two aren't happening, Drew dropped off of a Dann read (who was my third in my hero solve) which made me want to be there even more just because it felt off

why

Ganski feels like they're going with the flow of the gamestate rather than pushing their own reads. Their latest read tierlist had all the harder people to push at the top (and it was heavily top-sided) and then all the general easy to push people at the bottom. That read absolutely awful to me. For someone that appears to be very socially built different (for lack of a better term), they're going with what seems to be easy. I don't like that

Black felt stiff in the early game and then at a particular point she hard-locked onto Gob and did not let go throughout the entire game. Like a crocodile death roll, just constantly barraging them. It felt like they were seeing Gob for the value the push would have rather than thinking they're wolf and solving. There's one particular point that I am seeing the most for this and that's the fact that she asked Gob a question, Gob answered in what I deemed to be a pretty good response and Black proceeded to just not respond back at all. It feels like she's fishing for reasons to call gob out as scummy. Also of course Gob was pushing Ganski and it felt like Black did a good ol' chainsaw (I still don't know if that's the right term) and just hard pushed Gob because of that but that's a read for if one of them flips red, to evaluate the other.

just constantly barraging them

Like I would say about 90% of what I recall of Black is just trying to find reasons to swing a wagon onto Gob in particular

what's the case against Dann?

I'm not as convinced it's Dann as I am on Black/Ganski. I feel people are treating him in weird ways, the middle of the pack read between both my other SRs make me think that they're just putting them there to "distance". I also hated how he was talking with T-Bone as of the last 10 pages or so. It felt he was trying to rile up rather than do anything actually productive.

I want neither though

VOTE: Black

Vote and find out

And I have a pretty good track record reading her

Yeah, I'm sure you know I can't rely on that

Can you look over what I've said against her and tell me what you disagree with instead?

I’m ready to thunderdome Black

Why not look elsewhere JacksonVirgo?

I am, I’m just choosing to push Black as I’m like fairly convinced I’m a god and that I’m right.

Why not look elsewhere JacksonVirgo?

I am, I’m just choosing to push Black as I’m like fairly convinced I’m a god and that I’m right.

Im pretty decent at reading Black and i disagree. I have no problem going back over Black tomorrow i guess. But today she clearly aint the lim

Good for you

VOTE: Black

We’re getting there folks

I don't think Jacksons' confidence in scum!me is natural. It doesn't make sense for Jackson to want to thunderdome me for behavior that

he

is displaying. Jackson's push was part of the scum agenda. He made the weak case and recruited people to it, and it steamrolled from there. They managed to get me to 5 votes while I was gone Sunday night and Monday morning. When I came back and voted for python, Jackson accused me of self preservation, something he townread python for. Yeah python was doing it out in the open, but mine was tied into voting for someone I already leaned scum on. Jackson was just trying to discredit me here because I came back and messed with their plan

These are python's quotes during that time. You can tell they were planning what wagon to push, they were just doing it in the open to try and get townread. They even tried to get Dann going together before me

Spoiler: python's thoughts

Deadline's coming up, can we get a kill pool from everyone in case there's a cool flashwagon hiding somewhere?

Cook/Dann/T-Bone/gob

VOTE: Dann

flashwagon part 2: electric boogaloo

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

How much will is there for a Black wagon? Python/JV/Ranger, who else?

VOTE: Black

How much will is there for a Black wagon? Python/JV/Ranger, who else?

T-Bone (Black in scumlean)
STD (Black is a gob voter)

that's 5

open letter to light/dave/drew to join us on the Black wagon since the alternative is a Python lim

I feel like the third is someone like T-Bone who was monitoring the situation and declared intent to hammer as soon as my wagon tied python's at 5 votes

That's my hero solve

[Black]

More votes on Jackson please

[Black]

the third is someone like T-Bone

Or Naerys

I still think Naerys would have swapped to me and let T-Bone hammer if she's scum. Idk, maybe they were committed to the bus cred but it really feels like the scum team was trying to save python. Her swapping off should have been part of that plan

[Black]

Idk Black. Your first move in this game was SRing me because you thought I was doing something or whatever (i forgot tbh).

Now you're sorta doing the same thing with JacksronVirgo. You made up a story about mafia trying to lim you in V/LA or something, its a little silly tbh. All the other stuff could be legit, but I feel like there are better people than JV in that pool.

Who would you rather fade?

[Black]

Jackson I'll get to you later or tomorrow. I'm about to go out for the night

[Black]

Gob I support you but if you push someone I think is town then we're gonna have a talk

Also if your scumread is scummier then Jackson then you might want to go ahead and post it so we're not scrambling before the deadline

[Black]

I would be fine consolidating on Enchant if for some reason the Jackson wagon doesn't go through

Sort of a weak read here but his reaction to getting pushed early reminds me of his behavior in a recent game where he replaced scum and I pushed him right away

This game:

Can you let me live on slot without bullshit accusations for atleast hour

Literally unplayable

That game:

Weebs conspire to remove me from game.

Stop or i will start ATE

Fun fact: If i start talking back you will say i am flailing.

Cringe game

[Black]

I still want to hear more from Drew

[Black]

push me and not do much else

I don't believe this is a fair acknowledgement of what I've done at all

If that read is unfair then your read on me was unfair, simple as that. I did more than just push gob. I interacted with people and I expressed who I thought was probably town at the time. Your focal point was me/LG and my focal point was gob. I don't think thunderdoming me for having a focal point makes any sense fypov

[Black]

People don't act pissed on mafia accusing them with "Bad logic" they only get angry at town.

wtf?

He's saying it doesn't make sense for you to get mad at Ranger for using bad logic if you think she's scum. Scum have to use bad logic sometimes

[Black]

If we don't have the support for Jackson I'd rather go Enchant over dave or Ranger

[Black]

If we don't have the support for Jackson I'd rather go Enchant over dave or Ranger

Why over Ranger?

I'm torn on Ranger but I feel like she's been trying to solve the game. Dann seemed pretty convinced she was in her town meta and I generally trust his reads. Also I don't really think scum!Ranger makes the move she did at the end of D1 to save python. I've gone back and forth on this but someone said the risk far outweighs the reward and I think I agree

[Black]

Uh I may have overlooked that. One sec

[Black]

{gob}
{Black}
{humaneatingmonkey, davesaz}
{T-Bone}
{Save The Dragons}
{Doctor Drew}
{Enchant, JacksonVirgo}
{Naerys}

Enchant (2):

Ranger, T-Bone

oh fuck never mind on enchant

As long as you assume I'm scum, you're never limming scum because my lim pool is comprised of the two remaining.

{Naerys, light_ganski/Enchant, Ausuka/JacksonVirgo, Doctor Drew}

I don't support davesaz or humaneatingmonkey because both are strongly spewed town.
I don't support Black or gob because both are strongly spewed town.
I don't support T-Bone because imo he is strongly spewed town.

I don't support STD who I feel is town.

POE, remaining four names contain both scum.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Personally, if I had to guess I would say Drew lazy town, I lean town on JacksonVirgo, and believe it's Naerys + Enchant. However, I know I could be wrong on my guess, so I will vote anyone not clearly town.

Yeah there is a clear disconnect here

[Black]

1757 was meant to put Jackson at e-1

Ranger why would you put a townlean at e-1 when the Enchant wagon is completely viable and you think Enchant is partnered with Naerys?

[Black]

If we don't have the support for Jackson I'd rather go Enchant over dave or Ranger

You have my support for either Jackson or Enchant.

Why would you rather go Jackson over Enchant? I read what you said about the PoE stuff but they are both in your PoE and are both viable wagons. One you think is probably town and one you think is scum but you're not voting for the one you think is scum

Pedit: ok, you say Jackson had more votes, but I would at least try to do something with Enchant's wagon. It already had 2 votes

[Black]

VOTE: Enchant

If this flips scum then we flip Ranger and that's probably gg

[Black]

o7

[Black]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

I agree we should have done this yesterday. I'm ok with T-Bone too

[Black]

Get his thoughts and then hammer me, I'm done with this game. This isn't a scum-claim.

Why are you not feeling this game?

[Black]

I'm here. I'll catch up shortly

[Black]

Get his thoughts and then hammer me, I'm done with this game. This isn't a scum-claim.

Why are you not feeling this game?

It's less me not feeling this game and more if I'm going out nmw like it seems every single person wants me out, no use delaying that unnecessarily. The feeling of pending doom is unnerving

Relatable

[Black]

#2000

[Black]

I'm not complaining about being pushed, I completely understand it but expanding on my reasoning from yesterday. Enchant and I were both Town getting pushed to a pretty substantial degree and T-Bone just did not put pressure anywhere unlike his presence in the early game.

I can push you more if that will make you feel better. This rings like a hollow complaint because I stopped pushing your slot based on how you were approaching things upon entry. You're not that same player now if that's the standard you want to set.

(I mean I'm the same but this is your argument)

I don't like how this feels like a threat. "I'll push you more if it makes you feel better" ...if you think he's scum you should push him. You shouldn't want to push him just so he'll townread you

[Black]

I'm going to go ahead and get out in front of this...but if you think I am scum then push me. Whether that's STD, Black, JV, or someone else. And I don't mean cast side eye about me possibly being scum. That's really boring. I mean do something about it, and do something about it today. Go through my ISO, make your case. I have been asking for this since Day 1. Yes, sorry, I'm going to make it difficult for you to eliminate me. But don't shy away.

I think you're scum and I'll push you if and when I feel like it, thanks

[Black]

Coming into today my solve was just JV/T-Bone but JV's T-Bone vote is throwing me off a little. I don't really think scum bussing here is the optimal play. I guess it could be for the towncred once T-Bone flipped scum but that would still put scum!JV in a pretty bad position imo

[Black]

I simply don't want to waste my breath any longer. Everything I've said has come and bit me in the ass, taken out of context or just ignored and I'm not interested in that. Most notably Drew labelling my TR on gob as pocketing, them just throwing what i said about Enchant as "this is scummy owo", you taking my words out of context yesterday multiple times and just now in that last post you saying I can't SR you because I must have had some ulterior motive to doing so like what, also in regards to you saying my surrender is scummy and you'll ignore (which is very much not ignoring as you literally said it, and from what i see you have no real plans on considering other people considering the wording in both those posts). T-Bone just pretending my read on them is unsubstantiated and based in nothing. Ranger consumed by confirmation bias enough that they've expanded upon "this would be super cool if I was right, here's twenty posts talking about it" which is just going to cement her feelings further that she was indeed right until directly proven that she isn't which would be my death. I just have very little confidence that my words will ever be heard, and that's okay I am not complaining about it as it just happens when you're scum-read to this degree but don't tell me that I should be doing something when your collective actions (not your push) is the thing dissuading me from doing so.

That being said, I don't think a single person excluding STD, wants anybody except for me for an elimination while anyone else is just a secondary choice for them. Which is crazy to think that nobody is looking at that except me but maybe that's cuz I know I'm Town, or you're all consumed by the read you just consider that wolves would just bus which is also fair I guess.

I sympathize with this post, mainly the "I just have very little confidence that my words will ever be heard". I'm having a hard time deciding if this is legit emotion or if it's scum!JV trying to make us feel bad for him. I don't really want to let JV slip through the cracks again today but I'll feel pretty bad if I'm wrong about him

[Black]

It feels like T-Bone is trying to pocket StD

[Black]

I don't really feel like T-Bone/JV on page 78 feels partnered

[Black]

Basically I'm operating on the assumption that the last two scum don't want to bus the other here. It doesn't feel like the optimal play. Yeah it gives the surviving scum some town cred but they would still likely be in the PoE tomorrow. I think it makes more sense for both of them to push something else, even if it's something separate


T-Bone says he's down to hammer JV in 1925. Then they get into a little argument with some sass involved. T-Bone accuses JV of misrepping him, JV then accuses T-Bone of misrepping him. JV thinks T-Bone is insulting him

I think this could be scum theatre but I think the emotions feel a bit more genuine as opposed to forced for the sake of distancing

[Black]

Like if they are scum together then that's the whole point of page 78/79, to get us to think they're not partnered, but if that's the world we live in then it's working a little

[Black]

JV's posts are pulling at my heart strings but I also don't really want him to slip away again like he did D2

I would still prefer Jackson > T-Bone but I'm willing to switch these two around if that's what the rest would like

[Black]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Since you're giving him hope, let me return the L-1.

Who do you think JV's partner is?

[Black]

i do think if it is TBone and JV that arguing against each other is probably the play because not doing that could lead to their back-to-back lims while doing that casts some doubt onto the survivor if we lim one of them today. given what the remaining mason has posted, a lim on either of them seems most likely, and possibly inspired theatre.

@dave i haven't really parsed their argument yet but i will take a closer look

Don't you think JV is town? How strong is your read there?

[Black]

Because people have somehow cleared Naerys without taking a look at Naerys's content, Naerys continues to coast by with the bare minimum.

Can you name one piece of analysis Naerys has done on any slot?

It doesn't exist, because Naerys has given none and you've let her get away with it.

I don't think Naerys is clear, I just think she's probably town. As far as her not giving analysis or not really doing anything at all... she does that very frequently as town. I've played with her a lot recently and I don't find this behavior scum indicative for her

[Black]

when for most of the game T-Bone was like "here's a zinger, okay time to disappear for a day"

It'll blow your mind when you realize what Naerys' content this game has been.

'"here's a zinger, time to disappear" is an apt description of her iso.

Have you played with Naerys before?

[Black]

It would be interesting to look at Naerys' completed scumgame, though whether I'll have time is a question.

Yeah I wouldn't mind looking at Large Normal 246 but I have the same problem as you. A lot of my Mafia free time has been consumed by IRL stuff now

[Black]

I was in that game but scum killed me early and I didn't read too much after I died

[Black]

It feels like T-Bone is trying to pocket StD

Black, you have posted this in Open 902. Not Mini Theme 154890

What

[Black]

I still don't understand how Ranger is surviving

I would like to hear more from you

[Black]

Holy shit that timing

[Black]

I was just looking through and had a bad feeling that you're trying to sneak under the radar

[Black]

VOTE: Naerys

Good idea
VOTE: Naerys

VOTE: Nae

Great idea it seems

This is a bad vote

[Black]

Would I do that as scum you think?

If I didn't think you would then I wouldn't be suspicious of it

[Black]

Like, why would Nae self vote there?

If you are town and being genuinely frustrated that you are being scum read, then really push for someone to hammer Jackson......ya know, the person you are voting for?

I agree it feels a little performative and not really in the townie way but I've seen town self vote out of frustration before. I think you are expecting Naerys to make the optimal play in a moment of weakness but I'm not sure that's fair

[Black]

Pre Edit: Honestly, doesn't change much.....why would town remove their vote from you to self vote?

Why would scum remove their vote from the likely elim to self-vote? Naerys self-voting in your logic seems to be linked to believing me as a wolf, yet you're voting her and not me. "Lets see who flips what" no, that's not what I am asking. I don't trust the thought process you have, I need you to elaborate on it.

I agree with this. I think scum might do it for some town cred but that's the only benefit really

[Black]

My thing with Jackson is I know he's a really good scum player. It feels like he's saying townie things and using good logic but I know he's capable of doing that as scum because he just did it in a game that ended recently. The townie stuff is just not really changing my mind at all. I don't think we can let Jackson get to ELO

[Black]

I want to resolve the JV slot

I'm not voting for Naerys today but I would be willing to compromise on the other three wagons. Less thrilled about the dave wagon. I think if JV flips scum then dave could be a partner but otherwise I'm not seeing much of a valid case against him. I probably should go over his posts more when I get the chance

[Black]

Deadline in 16 hours. I don't think I'll be awake for it

[Black]

I don't like that there's 3 wagons with so little time left. We should start consolidating

I'm gonna be slightly stubborn here because I compromised on Enchant D2 so I would like it if people would help me fade Jackson today

[Black]

I need to reevaluate

[Black]

Jackson flipping town kinda threw me for a loop. I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

[Black]

I still feel like Naerys and StD are town but I'm not even confident about them anymore

[Black]

Why Ranger over T-Bone though

[Black]

I don't think I've ever seen you write a post that long

[Black]

VC 1.17

Votecount 1.17

usesPython (5):

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey, Black

Black (4):

JacksonVirgo, usesPython, davesaz, Ranger

gob (1):

light_ganski

T-Bone (1):

Save The Dragons

Dannflor (1):

Doctor Drew

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

VOTE: black

Intent to hammer, I am hovering around this thread. (Yes I know no one is at e-1 yet)

I can't stop thinking about this sequence. To me it indicates T-Bone was in on the plan to fade me over python. He declared intent after my wagon tied python's at 5 which just looks like positioning to seal the deal. Ranger and dave also voted on the counterwagon so I could see either of them as T-Bone/python buddies

[Black]

VC 1.17

Votecount 1.17

usesPython (5):

gob

, Naerys,

Dannflor

,

humaneatingmonkey

,

Black

Black (4):

JacksonVirgo

,

usesPython

, davesaz, Ranger

gob (1):

light_ganski

T-Bone (1):

Save The Dragons

Dannflor (1):

Doctor Drew

davesaz (1):

T-Bone

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

I don't really think Ranger and dave are both scum. Would all 3 scum pile on me in order like this?

I feel like T-Bone and one of Ranger/dave is probably just the solve here. Drew is the X-Factor

[Black]

VOTE: T-Bone

[Black]

T-Bone did you ever explain your dave scumlean from 753?

[Black]

Jackson flipping town kinda threw me for a loop. I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

I still feel like Naerys and StD are town but I'm not even confident about them anymore

VOTE: ranger

Ranger t-bone drew should contain atleast 1 scum

I wonder what Black's sheeping a townread today would look like.

I'd rather fade T-Bone over you. Maybe you could help me?

[Black]

black i feel like you just said my post was long but do you have any actual thoughts about it?

I think it's good analysis but I feel like part of your read is impacted by wanting to throw a pie in HEM's face postgame if you're right

[Black]

If you're not critical of Black for this play, then it is your loss to deserve.

I understand being critical of my defeatism or whatever but I don't think you're looking at it from my perspective. I was wrong about gob and wrong about Jackson despite having pretty strong gut reads on them. Yeah it happens but sometimes I just feel like I'm doing more harm than good when it comes to my pushes

[Black]

I need to reevaluate

I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

These two do not go together.

This just feels like shade

I started to look back over some things and realized I'm sorta lost and I've been wrong all game. They go together just fine

[Black]

I'm gonna be busy this weekend but I should have time to do stuff tomorrow

[Black]

Next day is mylo if we are wrong

How confident are you in your Ranger read

[Black]

To me it seems like a lot of your read is based around her pushing you

[Black]

To me it seems like a lot of your read is based around her pushing you

Why are you only questioning her vote on Ranger?

What else would you like me to question?