Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

Mirth · Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:13 am

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:Cause I want to be as close to 100% sure as possible?
LOL.
And why are you not supporting a No lynch?

Because I really really think Crazy is scum?

Mirth · Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:21 am

populartajo wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote:
populartajo wrote:I think Im going crazy here but Mirth and Coug, can you explain why you are voting deadline extension if you both have admitted that nothing can change your mind about Crazyscum?
The more info we have about his lynch before his lynch, the better, you know
This is a more valid answer than Mirth's. And I thought Mirth would answer this.

It is also goes without saying, tajo.

How do you feel about an extension?

Mirth · Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:29 am

Oh. Must have simulposted.

Even if no lynch is best statistically now, If Crazy is scum and we lynch him, outcome is far better, one less scum to worry about, potentially getting rid of a scum powerrole, much more information to go on than a nolynch.

Its between a low-risk low-reward strategy and a high-risk high-reward strategy. I want to be more sure than I am not before I commit to the latter.

Why do *you* want a deadline extension?

Mirth · Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:55 am

Theres the chance of us getting no information from the night because our cops might both be completely useless, or rendered useless by a scum powerrole, and then we just end up with one less player and very little more to go on. I think this is the most likely night scenario.

Mirth · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:40 am

So, Farside, what did you read it as?

Crazy, you are aware there was a deadline, and that you werent participating, why didn't you vote extension? Or offer up any real thoughts?

Mirth · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:28 am

Korlash wrote:Both Mirth and SC can't be scum...

How are you and Pop not getting that?

Cause if both of us are scum, he and Pop cant be scum. Duh.

I'm pretty much ready to vote Crazy now without any reservations about the benefits of a no lynch, btw. The fact that he wants it so badly instead of pursuing me or Farside or SC in any way shape or form, especially if hes so sure I'm scum, did it for me.

Mirth · Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:09 am

Why me and Crazy together?

Mirth · Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:47 am

Because Farside is looking at me as an easy out and doesn't realize that if I'm scum its more likely than not that I am scum with Corv?

Mirth · Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:01 am

That I'm growing more suspicious of her the more she spouts unsupported arguments and think its most likely scum with you and Crazy?

Mirth · Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:43 am

Kor, why am I most likely to be scum with you when you got guilties on me and Corv? (This is of course assuming you're not paranoid for a moment.)

Mirth · Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:01 pm

Well if you're scum, Corv would pretty much have to be scum.

Anyway, would anyone have any objections to me voting now or would y'all like me to hold off til deadline?

Mirth · Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:32 pm

Cause your roles are too similar to be faked, as far as I'm concerned, and the two of you confirm each other.

Mirth · Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:57 am

Actually you can have millers without cops. Mod is right about WOMAFIA. Miller and Godfather without cops. But regardless, the point is I think its very unlikely that either of you is scum.

Mirth · Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:03 pm

Eh, personally, I'm enjoying being a bastard over in 733. But to be fair, I warned them.

Mirth · Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:10 pm

You still have not explained why I'm scum with Farside and SC

Mirth · Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:38 am

vote: Crazy

.

This is L-1.

Mirth · Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:48 am

Oh. I just thought of a way to test both cops sanities. Should I share?

Mirth · Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:55 am

Korlash wrote:No becuase I have a good idea what that is and we can't do both at once.

Technically you can but it will be a wasted night since all it would tell you would be respected sanities.

Mirth · Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:55 am

respective^ I cant type

Mirth · Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:22 pm

It appears that Crazy wasn't lying about his role in any way that I could think of (well, at least if he was town theres no reason for him to lie if he were just vanilla)...but whether or not he was lying it still doesn't explain what his own alignment is. Tajo, I'm curious to know how you would explain this mystery?

For the record, I protected Kor last night.

Mirth · Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:36 pm

Korlash wrote:
Mirth wrote:For the record, I protected Kor last night.
Why? Why did you protect a person with NK immunity? Why didn't you protect... i don't know, the miller? The person most likely to be killed?

I was thinking it would be better to be safe than sorry with the protect and I did not think theyd go after SG. It was between the two cops and SC as a potential confirmed innocent on who I would protect, and I ultimately decided to go for one of you just in case. Coin flip decided the rest.

Mirth · Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:46 pm

Korlash wrote:That doesnt make any sense. Protecting a NK immune cop is not being "better safe then sorry" that's wasting a protection... Your protection should have been between Farside (Has the possible Crazy investigation on her side), SC (Corv's investigation), and SG (Confirmed in part by Corp).

Barring any Crazy-Scum flipping town mishap, scum entered the night 3 v 4. They NEEDED a kill. They would not go after a NK immune cop. In fact, why they didn't kill YOU is the biggest mystery there is. They risked doc protection killing SG, why didn't they just kill the doc?

Actually, I'd say the scum needed a dead cop or a no-kill more than just any kill. Killing at this point eliminates a lynch candidate from the pool, and this is dangerous because of cop investigations and such. Because basically you and Corv are more or less above the lynch. The rest of us aren't. Unless the two of you are scum together any random kill wouldn't do it. Besides, I did not think SG was confirmed, and I wasn't sure what to make of Farside and am even less sure now with Corv's investigation. And you're right, I should have been killed. Though killing me would have been smarter right after I claimed. But I do think being safer with keeping the cops alive is the best move.

On the topic of Farside, this is very odd. I'm not sure what to make of this. How does Crazy factor into this if Farside gave up a guilty?

Mirth · Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:09 pm

Eh, I think you're both town hence the coin.

Mirth · Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:27 am

I agree with Corv about the waiting for a response before lynching. I think the scum are Farside and Tajo.

This Crazy thing still has me scratching my head. The anti-miller thing would make sense, I have a couple of other ideas though about what might be going on. I'm not going to share them until after Farside explains herself though.

Mirth · Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:36 am

Rusty as in my role suggests I'm not 100% effective.

Mirth · Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:27 am

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:Rusty as in my role suggests I'm not 100% effective.
And how do you know this? Why couldnt you be a killing doc?
Thoughts of farside being scum, please. The same to KK.

Because my role says that I may be out of practice. How many more ways do I have to keep repeating myself, Tajo? And I have said a gagillion times, I don't know if I could be a killing doc, I just don't think I am.

As to Farsaide being scum, it boils down to this: yesterday, I was of the opinion that scum was Crazy, you, and Farside through Process of Elimination. Crazy is dead, flipped town, but his claim and the fact that it's not game over makes it highly unlikely that he actually was town. Therefore, I believe two scum are left (you and Farside). Additionally, we have a guilty investigation on Farside from Corv, who is probably sane. Barring some weird stuff that I'm not going to go into so it doesn't give anyone ideas, Farside is far more likely than not scum. As to Farside's behavior in this game, she herself hasn't been especially scummy, just very blah. Slow to commit to an opinion and such. So for me it boils down to cop investigations.

As to no-lynch today, which y'all seem to be discussing, well, I don't think it's a good strategy, because even if it guarantees living cops tomorrow too, there's a downside to it that will help scum that I'm not going to go into.

Mirth · Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:46 am

Corv, I'd prefer not to get into it, but if you see a snag, then it's probably the one I'm seeing as there's one really glaring one.

Farside, why me over SC's replacement?

Mirth · Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:54 am

Oh yes, brain freeze there, I really need to start doing that sleeping thing again.

Mirth · Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:08 am

Scum could do it if we lynched correctly as well, but it would be a lot harder to pull off than with a nolynch

Mirth · Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:58 am

Farside, I want to know why you think your role was switched exactly?

Mirth · Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:15 am

Um when did I claim that I kill people? That was Tajo's invention. I said I don't know for sure but I don't think I do. Now do you have anything on me besides not reading my role claim?

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:15 am

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:Um when did I claim that I kill people? That was Tajo's invention.
Prove it.

Learn to read. I NEVER claimed that I am a killing doc. There is a chance I might be, but *I* don't think I am. You do.

Farside: but what makes you think you got his role permanently? No basis for that that I see.

Corv: I think you're confused here. There is one thing scum can do that is not good in both the case of a lynch or a no lynch. I mention this cause it would be a lot lot lot worse in no lynch, and in the case of a successful lynch it will happen, but it won't be awful. Think about night choices.

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:53 am

How many times do we have to go over this Tajo? Seriously? The way my roll pm is phrased suggests that I am not always effective. Don't know where its 50/50, 40/60, even/odd nights, no idea there. My pm tells me I'm not 100% up to date, but it doesn't hint at screwups being harmful. I cannot be completely sure that I'm not a killing doc, but I don't see any reason to think I am. Now then, why do you keep harping about this. You sayyou think I'm scum, yes? So why are you so obsessed with the mechanics of my claim?

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:23 pm

KK, because what would claiming rustiness help anyone but scum?

Tajo, how about you answer my question. If you're so positive I'm scum why do you keep obsessing over my role claim?

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:56 pm

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:Tajo, how about you answer my question. If you're so positive I'm scum why do you keep obsessing over my role claim?
I think its obvious. Im having a hard time believing it.

Thats my point. You obviously dont believe me since you keep saying I'm scum. So why do you keep asking again and again if I'm going to keep repeating myself with the same information and you'll go on not believing me?

Farside: um, okay? would you care to share your reasons for voting me? or you know answer my question from before about why you think you have Crazy's role permenantly?

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:03 pm

That still doesn't answer either of my questions. Why are you voting me? and why do you think its *permanent*.

Mirth · Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:12 pm

Perhaps you don't understand my question. What makes you think Crazy's alignment will stick to you.

And why arent you answering why youre voting for me?

Mirth · Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:20 am

I'm here. I'm waiting for Tajo and Farside to answer

Mirth · Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:52 am

~twiddles thumbs~ So why am I scum with Tajo?

Mirth · Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:22 am

Tajo, I want you to answer why you keep questioning it. It is obvious that you don't buy it. But I've also been repeating myself over and over and over again and its not like it has any impact on you believing me. So if you're going to question my roleclaim no matter what I say, I just don't understand why you keep asking, because we're going around in pointless circles.

Tajo, what is our "scummy relationship" exactly?

Also, we havent heard from KK for a while. Did you get a chance to finish rereading, KK? What do you think?

Mirth · Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:31 am

Uh huh. So I'm scum because he's been attacking me?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:32 am

You don't get it, do you, KK? If you don't then I'm not explaining.

KK, can you also share your thoughts on all of us please?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:01 am

Uh huh. Why am I scummier than Tajo exactly?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:22 am

Kublai Khan wrote:
Mirth wrote:Uh huh. Why am I scummier than Tajo exactly?
Role-wise, his claim makes more sense because it mirrors Crazy's. It's not much but I'm not planning on voting for either of you based on that. Instead I'm probing for more information that you're not really forthcoming with.

And what information is that?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:48 am

Uh huh. did you actually try thinking about it for a second?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:57 am

Kublai Khan wrote:
Mirth wrote:Uh huh. did you actually try thinking about it for a second?
Wow. Suddenly I feel lots of sympathy for your significant other.

I'm asking for *your* answer, not mine.

Uh huh. My s/o has nothing to do with your inability to think. Let me spell this out for you partially: who would scum more likely kill, someone who claimed doc or someone who claimed rusty doc? What is the best thing to do with a townie under suspicion?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:40 am

And I don't like spelling things out when they're obvious. If that wasn't a huge enough hint to one part of my thought process, I don't know what is. The other part of my thought process has been harassed in detail by Tajo.

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:33 pm

populartajo wrote:
Corv wrote:Mirth has been a 'solo' virtually the whole game and has had pressure or been gone after by basically everyone at various points and I just can't see scum buddy linkage.
When did farside pressure her?
And do you see that scum buddy linkage between farside and me?

To be fair, has Farside really gone after anybody?

Also I'm not voting yet because I want to make you suffer, Farside

No, actually, I'm not ready to end the day yet. I do think it's Farside/Tajo, but I'd like to hear more from KK first.

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:26 pm

Hmm. Question for Farside and Tajo. Both of you think I'm the GF, yes? Why aren't either of you making an actual case against me or trying to get me lynched first?

Mirth · Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:24 pm

Tajo, there is no real evidence for you and Farside as a scumpair. There is however evidence for you being scum with Crazy and for Farside being scum individually. Unlike the two of you, I'm not pushing an argument of "you're scum because you must be scum together," like you both have been about me. First you saying I must be scum with Farside without proving that I or Farside am scum and then Farside saying I must be scum with Electra without proving that I or Electra am scum. I don't see an argument for links between you two. I see individual arguments against you both. And why do you say 2 scum?

Corv, I don't play off meta. I don't recall Tajo buddying to anybody in the one game I played with him, but I don't think it matters overall since we're interested in his play this game. You should play more games with Farside so my lesson of "meta is mostly useless" can sink in.

Mirth · Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:13 am

Tajo, except you've never had an argument for why I am scum. And I'm not going to push a connection if its not really there. Seriously. You've been fixated on me, and Corv to a lower extent, and defending Crazy. Not much else.

KK, I have explained my thought process to the point where I feel that any further explanation is not a good thing. I suggest rereading my argument with Tajo and thinking about it.

Mirth · Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:13 am

Your "case" on me is crap. We have been over this. And yes, you have been supporting both millers, and trying to use them to try and hide behind your alignment

Mirth · Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 am

Uh huh. And what is this relationship. And if I'm scum why arent you voting me now. And I have already explained why I protected Corv. You're not going to believe me whatever I say, so I'm done repeating myself. Also, the Farside theory isn't new, obviously. I'm pointing out that that was her strongest theory. She didn't really push anything else. So I have no idea what you are saying.

Mirth · Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:12 am

~Eye roll~ read the whole conversation. Oh, and why do you assume that if Tajo is scum then he wouldnt know about millers? If he is scum with Crazy, who seems to be some sort of anti-miller, I'd say one could make an educated guess.

Mirth · Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:28 pm

Eh. I'm not voting cause I think they're both scum and cant decide who would be a better lynch today, frankly. As to possible scum pairings, I'll try to do another list later (tomorrowish. computer is on the fritz now) factoring in eliminated groupings from yesterday. going off of today only, the following are impossible, if crazy was scum:

corv, kor
corv, mirth
kor, mirth
kor, kk
kk, mirth

this is not complete. needs to be crosschecked with yesterday

Mirth · Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:28 pm

Okay, so, does anyone have anything else they wish to add?

Mirth · Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:37 am

I believe I've answered everything. If I missed something could you please repeat it?

Mirth · Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:17 pm

populartajo wrote:Seriously, Mirth, why dont I feel you are the doctor that could be dead tonight?

Because you don't feel like killing me? How should I know what you're planning.

Corv: As I've said before, I think both Tajo and Farside are scum and will vote for either. I don't really have a preference.

Mirth · Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:12 am

Any more comments before I hammer?

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:16 am

I protected Corv. Did another coin flip between the cops.

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:41 am

Hmm. Tajo, why do you feel this day will end quickly?

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:28 pm

Except, Tajo, KK didn't taken the risk of leaving me alive, if he is scum, which I don't really think he is. (I think you are the remaining scum). KK wasn't in the game when I claimed. That would have been the best time to kill me. Now, y'all pretty much think that if Tajo isn't scum then I must be. No disadvantage here.

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:02 pm

Tajo, think about what you just said for a second. It doesn't make sense. Crunch the numbers.

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:42 pm

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:Tajo, think about what you just said for a second. It doesn't make sense. Crunch the numbers.
What are you talking about? Can you explain it to me?

If KK scum killed me off, what would happen today and tomorrow?

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:41 pm

Korlash wrote:
If he had killed Mirthdoc yesterday he would have damned himself. He would be looking at 2 NK immune townies making it impossible for him to win. We would just lynch you, he wouldn't be able to kill me or Corv, and then he would have lost tomorrow. There was no risk in leaving mirthdoc alive yesterday, only in killing her.

This.

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:38 pm

Korlash wrote:I know it's not addressed to me but I have no idea what you are talking about there Pop...

He means what happens if he's not scum, I protect you, my protect fails, and its me, KK, and Corv.

Tajo, I think Corv is town. His play all game has been protown. What do you think would happen if that were the case?

KK: What do you mean by that? How could I work as an investigative role? Only possibility here that I can think of is testing out if I'm a weak doc by purposely protecting someone I think is scum, but at this point in the game, that would be a losing maneuver. This I haven't seriously considered before, because I don't think it's smart play. If this isn't what you mean, could you explain what you do mean?

Corv: we have not lynched Tajo yet, because there is no advantage to lynching him right now as opposed to lynching him 3 weeks from now.

Mirth · Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Because it's a bad idea. Right now we know Kor isn't NK immune. And we know that I have survived protecting Kor and Corv. So if I am a weak doc (which we cannot be sure of), they are both confirmed town. So I would have to protect you or Tajo (if we no lynch today only. Otherwise no way for it to work to town's advantage). There are multiple ways this can turn out badly. Here are the most likely 2:

a) I turn out not to be a weak doc, and live through a protect. We would theoretically have 4 people tomorrow, as there is no reason for scum not to try killing Kor if I'm not protecting him. Result: mislynch, town loss.
b) I turn out to be a weak doc, and but I get NKed here for WIFOM factor (either through protect or nokill by scum). With only my dead body, its a wasted night because you wont be able to tell what I died of. Null result, 4 person LYLO.

Mirth · Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:39 pm

Tajo, I really do think its you, but I'll post a case on him later if you want, just not in the next few days.

Mirth · Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:39 pm

Korlash wrote: ... So you feel Mirth is more likely GF just because? Is it her name? Does Mirth strike anyone else as a common Mafia Don's name? You're entitled to your own opinions sure, but unless you tell us why you have them don't expect us to value them any more then we value hard boiled eggs... (No offense to anyone who highly values hard boiled eggs... I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good hard boiled egg every now and then. Maybe not when thrown at a window, but when I need lunch on the go sure. A regular egg is hard to eat on the train you know... Where was I?... Oh right I was done...)

I would sigquote this is i bothered to maintain a sig.

Mirth · Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:24 am

Kor, I think that was sarcasm from Tajo. I just really don't have time for a reread til Friday.

Mirth · Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:19 am

Uh huh. Can you explain how I'm scummier?

Mirth · Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:19 am

Corv, what can my response possibly be? He thinks I'm scum. I have no idea why. (He also never responded to the me-as-an-investigative-role thing after I pointed out why that was flawed). I don't think KK is scum, because I think Tajo is scum. I think SC spent all game being kinda bleh but not scummy. So seriously, what am I supposed to say an unbacked up suspicions against me?

Mirth · Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:39 am

Tajo, Corv and Kor are confirmed, pretty much. And I really do not see KK as a godfather. I will reread SC at the end of the week, but I doubt my opinion will change. I think you are scum. I thought Farside was scum because of POE, but for the past 2 days I have been thinking you are scum for your actions in this game. Seriously, what do you want me to say?

Mirth · Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:51 am

The whole thing with buddying with Crazy, the no lynch thing, the calling yourself confirmed thing. Basically everything that Corv has already mentioned.

Mirth · Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:21 am

I told you. Friday. I seriously dont have time to reread now

Mirth · Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:06 am

Corv, actually, most of his case on me has been "she's playing different than in ace attorney." Or do you mean KK?

Mirth · Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:47 am

Tajo, and what is that exactly? That I didn't get NKed right after I claimed?

Corv: in Ace Attorney, BM and I were tearing out each other's throats Day 1 (the only day I lived through). I think that's Tajo's big gripe about it being different than Ace Attorney. I obviously can't have a spat with BM if BM isn't here. BM and I tend to clash cause of playstyle. (Also, I found Ace Attorney more interesting (no offense Mod!) since it had a very unique lynching dynamic, and this game just started at a bad time for me. I let Farside talk me into it when I shouldn't have, so there's a bit of that going on as well during the first part of it.)

Mirth · Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:04 am

Tajo, as I said, I will give you my analysis on SC/KK on Friday, but I do not think KK is scum. I don't know why he thinks I'm scum over you. If someone could actually provide reasons for why I'm scum that would be great. Neither of you have built a case on me that actually makes any sense/has merit.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:07 am

populartajo wrote: What changed in deciding between Mirth and KK?

I am wondering this too.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:26 am

Actually I am reading. And you said that you would lynch me if Tajo doesn't flip scum as the conclusion of your analysis.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:43 am

Corvuus wrote: However, it has occurred to me that the only player who (hypothetically if tajo isn't scum) would know that there *is* going to be a tomorrow, then they may try to set things up and try to control the events of tomorrow today. SC/KK did say something like this, you (mirth) on the other hand did not. Even when I said I would lynch you via PoE, etc. you didn't respond or say anything about SC/KK (which is sort of a null tell for you since your response is essentially you being you whether town or scum... or as now is apparent, maybe you just didn't read) while SC/KK *did* say Tajo should be lynched but he has a case on Mirth.
Corv

I think you're missing the point where KK wants me lynched today, as demonstrated by where his vote is. He thinks I'm scum over Tajo. I'm convinced Tajo is scum, but I will humor him with a reread tomorrow.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:02 am

Except I'm not asking you for your opinion. You've already stated your opinion. Multiple times. It's coming through loud and clear.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:31 am

I think you misunderstand me. I asked you to clarify a very specific instance that does not match up with what you have been saying for the past few phases. As in I'm not asking you to restate your opinion, since you've been repeating yourself for a while now.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:46 am

If thats what you feel like doing, fine, whatever.

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:14 am

Corv, I dont want much of anything right now accept sleep. I also really dont have time to reread right now as im simultaneously working in a couple other windows and can fire off responses far quicker than reanalyzing a heapload of posts.

I have already stated multiple times that I think Tajo is scum. I have no problem going over SC/KK, though. Sure, its a waste of time, but it wont actually hurt anyone, just waste a few more days

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:09 pm

Tajo, since you keep saying I'm scum, can you or KK please actually provide a case as to why?

Mirth · Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:41 pm

If you're so convinced I'm scum, why aren't you voting for me tajo? Or trying to directly get me lynched today?

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:07 am

KK: as I said, I loathe playing doctor. As for the kill thing, there really isnt anything in my PM to indicate that I might kill. Just that I might be useless. So this is a possibility that I did not consider too high on my list of things to look into. I did consider one other possibility that I have not mentioned on the extent of my uselessness. And the investigation this is just not a good idea regardless of how messed up the dynamics are.

Ill have my reread analysis of SC/KK up later today (evening) sometime after I get home. Right now I have to be productive and I think my brain is too fried to multitask. Ah, my kingdom for some sleep.

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:57 am

Okay, I'm doing the reread now on SC.

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:35 pm

I'm only noting negative points and how/if they were resolved because this is pretty much what I was asked to do

On SC
-after the miller claim thing, SC makes a few useless posts that aren't playing.
-sucks up to me and llama and tries to cross out most of the town by poor reasoning (admits that this was bad bad bad play)
-misrepresentation of farside (cleared up since he didnt seem to understand)
-needs some prodding to examine electra
-posts a bunch more kinda useless posts
-lets corporate off a little too easy

On KK
-says I'm scum without building a case for it.

There we go. SC's play was mostly protown, the only thing bad about it was the kind of flakiness and some of his reluctance to post. That's about it. I'm ready to throw my vote to Tajo now if no one has any objections.

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:00 pm

No, I'm not ignoring it. I was referring to how you didn't actually provide analysis *before* that post.

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:48 pm

What do you mean?

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:21 pm

Except he wasnt so I fail to understand

Mirth · Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:44 pm

Sure, but not tonight. I'm about to collapse myself. I owe another thread a reread but my brain refuses to function any longer.

Mirth · Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:42 pm

I'm going to take that as a no objections. So to finally get this over with:

Vote:Tajo

Mirth · Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:37 am

I protected Kor. No coin flipping involved here. I don't know what to think about a third party role (if third party, there must be some kind of weird dynamic at play, due to the low number of kills). Occam's Razor would probably point to one of Tajo/Crazy/Farside not being scum, and it would have to be Tajo or Crazy in that category. I guess I'll have to completely reread this.

Mirth · Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:38 am

EBWOP: oh, I forgot to mention, I think one of the following happened last night:

a) my protect worked 47.5%
b) scum sent no kill 47.5%
c) we have a weird third party that might not be able to kill 5%

Mirth · Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:27 pm

I would say KK based on POE but I'm going to have to reread again because I really didn't see anything actually significantly scummy about him in my individual reread. This game just makes my head hurt.

Mirth · Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:07 am

Mod: I'm going to be away until Sunday. Have to go on a trip. I might check this game if I have time, but this is not a definite, as my modded games are my first priority.

Mirth · Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm

Corv, there's also the possibility of scum getting inside info for fake claims. I suggest we just all reread each other and argue it out from there yet again. (I won't be able to reread til I get back, and I'm leaving very early tomorrow.)

Mirth · Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:34 pm

I was thinking of what Tajo said about his pm saying there were cops. So not a set up reveal but about roles

Mirth · Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:04 pm

Corv, I dont know what to think. I mean I've spent all game thinking you're town, and half the game convinced Kor is town. But then I reread SC/KK and I'm not seeing much scumminess. Hence I need to reread all of you again, because I don't know what to think.

My claim, yet again:
I'm a doctor. I used to be a great doctor, the stress got to me, wound up in the loony bin, I canprotect someone each night, not myself, but my skills may be out of date.

Mirth · Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:03 am

Okay, I'm back. I'll get caught up probably later today. Sorry for the absence but real life and the evilness of having to fly somewhere called.

Mirth · Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:03 am

Sorry I took so long to getting around to this.

KK, 1981: I believe you are right. It may be the best idea.
Corv, 1984: But would it hurt? Also I reread SC and I'm not seeing very much of that. There are a couple of moments, but I feel they're mostly resolved by him later. Also wouldn't lynching FL effectively be a no lynch?
Corv, 1988: Because at that point I was convinced they were both scum and it didn't particularly matter which order they died in, cause the other one would die next, regardless?
FL, 1990: There has got to be some rule about modifying game rules at random

Corv, 1993: How exactly am I not consistent with myself?
Corv 2001: Soooo why exactly am I scum again? Case, please. Also, where did I buddy up to you?
KK 2008: This post makes no sense. Couldn't scum do a holding pattern just as well as town? (Assuming that it was a no kill over a protect from me, or at least before mod added the rule?)
Kor, 2009: Hmm. Wouldn't us lynching FL though not count as a no lynch, though?

I'm going to do a reread on Kor and Corv hopefully this weekend, but I think an FL lynch is the way to go.

Mirth · Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:19 am

First: can we hold off hammering the mod for a while.

FL: if we lynch you, that won't count as a no lynch, correct?

Mirth · Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:19 am

So, FL, does that mean that you actually were scum, since I notice the "we" from yesterday changed to an "I"

As if it isn't obvious, I once more protected Kor.

Corv, why did you feel the need to hammer FL after I specifically asked that we hold off on it for a while?

Mirth · Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:34 am

I can see that nothings changed. I'm asking why you did it? As for do what I like, I'm gonna reread this weekend.

FL: but youve lied about alignment before, so we can't trust your flip.

Mirth · Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:26 pm

If you want me lynched, why aren't you voting me?

Mirth · Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:18 am

Actually, Kor, it isn't. It takes 3 to lynch. I highly doubt that I would be speedlynched after one person places a vote on me.

Mirth · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:13 am

KK: its called joking.

Kor: you're putting words in my mouth. votes arent meaningless, but in 4 person lylo the first vote isnt dangerous.

Mirth · Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:46 am

Korlash wrote: Exactly why placing a vote is meaningless. What is the point of voting someone if everyone knows nothing will come of it?

You have put words in my mouth. I never said that placing a vote is meaningless like you imply I did here.

Mirth · Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:48 am

Ah, okay. The way you stated it did not convey that.

In the middle of a reread now.

Mirth · Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:39 am

Am I supposed to slap you?

Mirth · Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:24 am

Still rereading. Sorry. Hope to be done by tomorrow.

Mirth · Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:03 pm

Okay, I finished my reread. My opinion on KK stands that I'm not really seeing anything scummy. Korlash is confirmed town so the things that bothered me from his predecessor mostly don't matter anymore. One thing bothered me about Corv, who otherwise has been townie to me.

Corv, can you go over the whole post restriction thing again, please?

Mirth · Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:05 pm

That's not what I meant, Corv. Not your role claim. Did you absolutely have to fake a PR? What would have happened if you didn't?

Mirth · Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:02 am

Corvuus wrote:My PM mentions nothing about being modkilled if I failed to do anything so I don't think my being modkilled is a possibility at all or at least, i wasn't worried about it.

So I wasn't forced by the mod to do anything. I would just suffer the consequences.

Corvuus

So I guess I still don't understand why you did it then. That's the one thing that's bothering me about you.

Kor: Your predecessor bothered me some, actually, but you've proved yourself town, therefore going into Penta's quirks is pointless.

Mirth · Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:28 am

Corv, before I say anything further (there is something in the back of my mind now), I just want to take one more crack at you.

Hypothetical: if you did not fake a PR from the beginning would you have had to claim day 1?

Mirth · Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:52 am

I'm doing yet another reread on Corv and KK, for the record. Also waiting for Corv to explain why I'm scummy.

Mirth · Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:49 am

I repeat that Tajo didn't really have a case on me. If you say I'm scummier than KK, that's your opinion. I'm not going to start attacking KK with accusations I don't see. I'm actually starting to think that you're the last scum despite the claim, because I really just don't see it with KK.

Mirth · Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:55 pm

Kor, as far as I'm concerned, you're confirmed. Otherwise I would be dead by now. And KK, as I said, I'm thinking that last scum is Corv.

Mirth · Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:02 am

Corv, I have posted what I really think. I am not "claiming" that you are scum, but I am thinking you are. This is not definate in the least and I have never said it was. If I was sure, I would be voting. But I do not see very much suspicious with KK, and what was suspicious has been mostly resolved. I have reread and I don't see KK being scum. Yet with you, despite me having spent the entire game being convinced you're town, the post restriction thing still bothers me. This is the only thing that bothers me about you but it really does. You answers to it don't resolve it. You seem to want me to attack KK to prove myself to you. I'm not going to do that, so think what you will. Also, the way I see it, I'm going to die regardless of what Korlash does since you and KK are convince I'm scum. (FLs deadline rules dont have a LYLO exception).

Mirth · Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:27 am

Except I dont think KK is scum, so even if you were to vote him to try to get me to vote him and push a haiku showdown, I wouldn't be up for it. We really are at a stalemate then.

Mirth · Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:20 am

No. That is incorrect. I am not willing to vote for someone who I don't think is scum. Maybe I'm completely off base here, but after 3 rereads of KK/SC, I'm not seeing it. If you are sure he's scum can you explain to me why that is?

Mirth · Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:44 am

so my options are die or try lynching the person i don't think is scum? that is lose for sure or probably lose? great choice there.

Mirth · Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:59 am

I suppose so. But still. I can't shake the feeling that its Corv.

Mirth · Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:29 am

KK, I dont see how asking the mod about the possibility of 2 scum groups (i.e. an SK) makes me scum. I also don't see where you're getting the vig nonsense from. If there was a vig, a) they are not an antitown faction b)chances of the mod confirming and/or denying that are even lower than mod saying how many scum groups there are. You are clearly reaching here.

I have also explained my claim multiple times. Since you are too dense to get it, lets try again. What is a person who claims doc more likely to do than a person who claims rusty doc? Oh yes, draw a night kill. Seriously, learn to read.

Mirth · Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:37 pm

Kor, I actually didn't claim flavour until I was pressed to do so. Because, as I said before, there was absolutely nothing to gain from claiming flavour and potentially something to lose.

Mirth · Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:30 am

I have said what I really think. You admit that the PR is faked. You do not explain sufficiently why you faked it. You said you dont think it would have gotten you modkilled, but you havent stated what your motivation for faking it was other than your text saying you're faking insanity. I have asked and you have not replied what would haven't really answered: what would have happened to you had you not faked it? Would you have had to have claimed right away? Would there have been some punishment? Was there language in your PM to suggest that bad things would happen to you had you not faked it? I have said this multiple times: the only thing that bothers me about your is the PR thing. Why would you fake it if there was nothing to gain from it or if there was nothing to lose from faking it. I have asked multiple times and you've sidestepped the question, telling me you'll explain after the game is over. This bothers me. What are you not saying here.

As to me hedging my bets as you say, why am I not taking the easy way out that's been offered to me since yesterday when y'all decided that if KK and I both survived, we'd have to fight it out?

And I have nothing more to elaborate on. I think you have both played a town game. Your PR thing just sits worse with me than KK/SCs actions. It's POE.

Mirth · Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 am

Corvuus wrote: I said that I wouldn't be Modkilled for it but that (as shown by my original claim during the massclaim) I would have to claim my cop role if I did; that doesn't answer your 'negative/punishment'?

Except you did not say this. You said that once you break your cover and announce your the cop you can do what you want. You did not get into specifics about whether or not you HAD TO fake the post restriction or claim. I asked you multiple times, you did not clarify.

and If you say I admit that the PR is faked, then why would I drop it, If you think I am scum, during the massclaim since:

1. It could have strengthened my cop claim if I am faking it
2. If I am scum, I could continue my 'debilitating' PR, not contribute and not help town lynch scum/investigate, etc.

then what is the mechanism behind it. Also town never has a reason to fake a PR.

So what is your motivation? Why are you bothered? Are you bothered at that fact that I may (or from your point of view, certainly) fakeclaimed a PR and successfully survived all the way until lylo so you want me to admit it is fake before you accept me as a cop and then try to scumhunt?

Or do you somehow think that I am not a cop and that I am lying about everything?

My motivation is this game is not over yet. I know that I am not scum. I know that Kor isn't scum or it would be over by now. I know there is a scum player still alive since this game isn't over yet and the mod has pretty much confirmed it. Thus I know one of you and KK must be scum. I have reread you both and find both your actions townish. All that remains for me is a faked PR. This is the only scummy action I see. So tell me Cor, what am I supposed to do here?

My point of you hedging wasn't about KK. My point of you hedging is about me and heck, you STILL are.

I've done my best and played what I could. I've said what I could. You can't say my PR is faked, say that you think I am scum, but believe I am cop; and you can't ask me questions worded in the way you did.

How exactly am I hedging on you?

Example: Your questions were not about my role or my claim. Your questions were "did you fake this for a reason". If I say, yes, then I fake. If I say no, then I fake. Your questions are misleading and HEDGING and I refuse to answer a question where your question points to a specific answer already and that if I give you a full disclosure to explain my role and what I did, I actually may risk a modkill and for what possible gain do I have if I figure out exactly how to paraphrase my 'impulse' and you believe it?

You yourself said that you did not have a PR in one of your supposedly PRed posts. Then you break it and do not say that you have to have pretended to have a PR. How is this misleading when it is in fact what happened?

Whether you believe my PR or not, do you believe I am a cop? If so, then the point is moot as I said. If you don't believe my PR and you don't believe I am a cop, then go ahead and make your case and stop hedging. You can't have me as a 50-50 liar. Otherwise, what is the point of your comment other than trying to get me modkilled??

If your point is just to be satisfied that I say "i faked my PR" then, hey, I did that at the top of this post. If your point is something else, then say it before you die at deadline and you have given me NO reason to believe you or your role.

but hey, if you want to play this game, I could say:

I am saying nothing of the sort. I'm saying that if you faked the PR without some other contingency, then you probably fake claimed and are thus scum. What is unclear about this?

"Mirth, why advantage did you gain from faking a doc claim? Why did you fake 'rusty'? What does rusty really mean? What is your doc claim in full disclosure detail with every possible detail? Why did you survive until now?" etc.

If your answer, yes or no, you will look scummy; if your answer with full detail/disclosure, you are either scum lying or you are paraphrasing/risking modkill.

Except there is a difference here. You yourself have said that you did not have a PR.

Either way, I think KK is town, Kor has to be town so you are POE.

Ironically, nothing of what you have said has dealt with setup balance on there being 'only 1 cop' (if you think I am scum) or with anything else that has been said or happened if you really think i am scum. So yes, you are hedging, deadline is coming and I will push for your lynch since the only reasons I can think of for you to do this is that you are scum.

Corvuus

My suspicion of you has nothing to do with set-up balance (I was once in a game with 4 doctors. Then I was in another game with 3 mason pairs. And then a game with 2 inventors. Reoccuring power roles don't bother me) and I think you've played a town game. My suspicion of you lies in the mechanics of the faking and nothing else, as I have already stated. Also, if you're pushing for my lynch, can you actually, you know, push?

Mirth · Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:31 am

forbiddanlight wrote:

DUE TO A MODDING ERROR I HAVE JUST REALIZED THE SCUM ALREADY WON!

THERE ARE THREE MAFIA STILL LIVING AND THEY KILLED LAST NIGHT!

cret1n, mafier mispellcaster
Killah Nine, chocolate mafier
and
Killer Seven, mafier godfather win!

Enjoy post game.
no, this isn't a thinly veiled April fools joke...

So this game is finally over? Gott sei dank.

Mirth · Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:16 am

KK, ummm what? So I, as scum, claimed doc because I *knew* there was only one killing role, but I was hunting for vigs by asking the mod if there was a second scum group and I was scared of someone killing me? ummm what? I'm scum because you've contradicted your own logic as to why I'm scum?

Mirth · Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:06 am

KK, why didn't I claim rusty doctor when I first claimed then? I'm not liking how you keep contradicting yourself as to why I'm scum. At all. You know what,

vote:KK

Haiku-off it is.

Mirth · Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:49 am

I don't see why asking about something that is bothering me about Corv is scummy when it in fact does not make sense. Also I don't see you answering or acknowledging my last question.

Mirth · Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:50 am

Eh, I pretty much knew my side was gonna lose from the beginning when the miller claims started, so these past few days I was actually trying to play for a scorched earth scenerio. Overall, my play in this game was subpar, I think, cause it just came at a very bad time and then I pretty much knew scum were screwed, so the motivation wasn't there. I promised Farside a game as a scum together, and when this game started, I was neck deep in work, so I wasn't really there. Tajo had it pegged right that I was scum, but for the wrong reasons of why I wasn't as vocal. Why I was attacking Corv over KK? Well, I already knew I'd lost, so I was trying to create confusion and hopefully get another no lynch. Also I was worried that if somehow miraculously there was a mislynch and I got to endgame, Corv wouldn't be killable. The corporate kill was for confusion, yes. Also because he was pissing me off with his non-playing. The SG kill was because we didn't really have a choice as to who to kill. That's pretty much it.

Anyways, congrats town.

Mirth · Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:07 am

Not a balance issue. More of a everyone wanting to leave them alone at first issue and then Farside not claiming miller and then Crazy doing the 3 er 4 miller thing. But mostly the first. The fact that a number of people automatically wrote them off as the not day's lynch was pretty much when I knew my side was screwed.

Mirth · Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:15 am

forbiddanlight wrote:
Not a balance issue. More of a everyone wanting to leave them alone at first issue and then Farside not claiming miller and then Crazy doing the 3 er 4 miller thing. But mostly the first. The fact that a number of people automatically wrote them off as the not day's lynch was pretty much when I knew my side was screwed.
Ah, yeah. I'm mildly surprised at how...accepting people were of the role duplication.

And yeah, Crazy did mess you up there a bit. That was probably what led to his downfall.

Yeah. And I was kinda hoping for my partners to outlive me. After the wagon on me (which I still say was unwarranted), I claimed doctor basically to get myself counterclaimed and get rid of the doctor if there was one in the game. I thought I was going down, so I thought I'd do that most damage while doing so. I didn't expect to outlive both of them.

Mirth · Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:49 am

KK: I don't know. I was considering letting the mod randomize my kill by not submitting any on that second no kill night. Or killing you and trying to frame Corv. As I said, though, I knew I lost already, so yeah. I probably would have either killed you or nokilled to try and go for scorched earth.

Mirth · Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:31 am

farside22 wrote:
forbiddanlight wrote:

Yeah. And I was kinda hoping for my partners to outlive me. After the wagon on me (which I still say was unwarranted), I claimed doctor basically to get myself counterclaimed and get rid of the doctor if there was one in the game. I thought I was going down, so I thought I'd do that most damage while doing so. I didn't expect to outlive both of them.
I don't like doctors, and I don't like cops. No way in hell I'm having both, lol. One shot NK resistance makes things interesting. What's intriguing is I didn't have a vig .
I was pretty pissed about a one shot nk resistant cop with no second kill going on. Once the millers claimed and the cops stated they were one shot NK resistant I knew the scum was losing this one.
But nice effort by Mirth. I want to nominate you for best effort in a losing cause for this game.

Thanks for the thought, but it wasn't much of an effort on my part. I'm not really satisfied with my play here.

Mirth · Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:17 am

I don't really have an issue with the set-up (though the NK resistances might have been a bit much, and ultimately both cops were effective. Perhaps something to make the cops weaker? Or turn this into a no-reveal on death game), but the nails in our coffin were just people believing claims right off the bat. This was one of the factors that helped me stay alive as long as I did, but its what ultimately killed our chances from the beginning, I think.

Mirth · Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:43 am

Except they weren't entirely useless as cops. Useless would have been random or paranoid or naive. Once they figured out they were sane and insane, they could still narrow down the subject pool despite knowing some of their results would be wrong cause of millerness. Anyways.

I think we decided on Llama cause a couple people were suspicious of Corv. I honestly dont remember. Lost the link to the quicktopic long ago.

Mirth · Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:57 am

Tajo, it wasn't meant to convince anyone this late in the game. As I said, I thought I was going down and was trying to get myself counterclaimed to take a power role down with me. After no one counter claimed I had to improvise.

Mirth · Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 am

I dont have the quick topic nor my pm anymore. I checked.

Corv, no it doesn't answer my question. There was no reason to lie about you having a PR despite what you thought might be mod messing with you.

Mirth · Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:48 pm

FL, you can post the quicktopic if you want and my partners agree. I don't really care. Y'all can see me rant about Corporate.

Corv,you give me way too much credit. I thought you PR was real. I just happen to give people with PRs extra grief. If I thought you were faking it, I would have attacked the hell out of you day 1, as either scum or town.

Mirth · Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:02 pm

populartajo wrote:
Mirth wrote:FL, you can post the quicktopic if you want and my partners agree. I don't really care. Y'all can see me rant about Corporate.

Corv,you give me way too much credit. I thought you PR was real. I just happen to give people with PRs extra grief. If I thought you were faking it, I would have attacked the hell out of you day 1, as either scum or town.
lol, would you as town also attack corpo?

Hell yes. People with his "play" style make me foam at the mouth with rage. Lots and lots of rage.

Mirth · Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:15 am

Corv, why would I, as either town or scum, let a player who I think is faking a PR live? There is nothing protown about it.

Mirth · Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:36 am

Corv, I knew Tajo wasn't lying because of Crazy's role. When he claimed my thoughts were something along the line of "oh crap." When my half-joking call for a counterclaim was answered not once, but twice, I basically figured we were screwed.

As to PR faking, why would a power role *fake* a PR in your analysis of the fake PR dilemma? That only draws more attention to them, which is kind of not what they want?