Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER

[Slandaar]

/confirmed

[Slandaar]

Deasveil, why didn't you provide your reasons before being prompted?

VOTE: Skenvoy

[Slandaar]

That question is loaded, what do you expect Deas to say? the reasoning seemed VERY good, now why was there a suspicious tone in the questioning? it reads scummy.

[Slandaar]

I am gonna go out on a limb and say painted and sken are both scum.

[Slandaar]

Painted Fos'ed me and not Deas then uses Deas's first 2 posts as reasons behind his vote...

Interesting.

You can actually see Painted coming to Skenvoys aid like 3 times subtly, there looks like a link there

[Slandaar]

This game got serious fast.

I like

[Slandaar]

Not because I have supported you, no.

If you agree with the reasoning behind supporting you then you should I think.

I find you pretty town anyways, that reasoning behind the vote on sken was really well thought out, your vote on painted was pretty good too imo.

[Slandaar]

@Painted: Why didn't you vote me when you FOS'ed me?

[Slandaar]

surely at that point I was the most suspicious player to you?

[Slandaar]

You could easily be scum.

I will tell you a secret if you promise not to tell anyone else...

Spoiler:

I'm Town

I just find it really weird how painted has kind of jumped to skens aid so strongly. It could be buddying but to me it reads like they are both scum. like at this stage of the game my reads on them are actually ridiculously strong. And then on the flip side my town read on Deas for page 2 is ridiculously strong too.

[Slandaar]

i) First, you vote for Skenvoy, providing reasons when asked. There's nothing wrong with this in itself: it's just that your reasoning is poor.

hmmmmmmm

can you explain why you think Deas's reasoning was poor for a page one vote?

[Slandaar]

Painted, do you have an opinion on whether Sken likes to play as mafia or not?

[Slandaar]

thanks don! im not so sure you are though.

[Slandaar]

Which question are you talking about?

[Slandaar]

I would like painted to answer it

[Slandaar]

J, why didn't you include sken and call it 'the four'?

[Slandaar]

@Don: I think you have outshone me here! that was a great summary of the events so far.

Now;
@Painted: DV's reasoning behind his vote was well thought out and it is a very valid reason, it COULD have been/be true. Do you disagree? There is no chance his theory could be correct?

If you are town I need to understand why you think the reasoning is poor, you need to show me why the theory cannot be correct. AND then why the reasoning makes DV look scummy? - although if you can show me why the reasoning cannot be right this might be explained.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, you said in #46 that your scum-read on Sken was "ridiculously strong" (for the time of day), but I haven't seen you give any strong reasons for your suspicion of Sken, only that you would "go out on a limb" and call out Sken as being prob scum for (implicitly) Sken's OMGUSsy reaction to Deas, which you quoted in the post in which you voted for her, and Painted's defense of her. Given the relative weakness of those tells, what was it that prompted you do make such a strong statement about your feeling about Sken?

I did not understand why painted couldn't consider the theory, its weak and completely depends on what role she prefers playing and even then it might not even be relevant it might just be she could play for whatever reason, but the reasoning behind its pretty good I mean she could have replaced out if she wanted, so shes seen her role and decided to stay in, ok, thats cool, but there is a slight chance the role helped to make her decision. it completely looked like scum jumping to buddys aid, there was no reason to come out guns blazing against that reasoning.

Still, painteds defence posts are not good, for example he says Deas made an issue out of it which is completely exaggerating to say the least.

And he also says the theory is possible, completely nullifying the view that the theory is complete bs but still says Deas is scummy for presenting it. Even if there is a 0.5% chance the theory has any merit its better to make the vote with the reason as it does increase the odds someone is scum over a random vote. This is how I view it, so to say Deas's reasoning is scummy seems a bit ridiculous.

OK I didnt really answer the question; the answer is simple, they seem to have a link, which combined with minor scummy actions made my reads escalate.

[Slandaar]

I hope that answers your question. Would you answer a question or two for me? Why do you think Don's post was a "great summary" given the numerous inaccuracies and mischaracterizations I pointed out? And why did you attempt to misleadingly portray me as defending Skenvoy, when I instead attacked DV for faulty reasoning when he attacked Skenvoy? This really has nothing to do with Skenvoy's guilt or innocence. Even if Skenvoy is guilty -- and I have no clue one way or the other -- the way DV acted is scummy for all the reasons I've explained.

He basically summed up how I have viewed things with a couple minor differences.

Misleading? I am just giving my honest opinion of the events.

You must be able to see how your actions can be viewed as defending sken?

Sken votes you, then votes someone else both of which are 'random' bit pointless right? ok very very minor, but it shows a small connection 'LOLZ IM VOTING YOU PAINTED' 5 secs later 'BETTER NOT VOTE MY BUDDY ANYMORE'... then we get;

Could you elaborate on that, please? It isn't that helpful to just say you think someone is scum without saying why.

WHY IS MY BUDDY SCUM? PLEASE ELABORATE!

and this;

... and apparently Slandaar's not a fan of people providing reasons. Or asking for reasons. Or posting reasons for his own votes, for that matter.

FoS: Slandaar. That was a strange-looking post.

DONT VOTE MY BUDDY!!!

Then you vote Deas again looking like you are defending your buddy.

Can you see how your actions can be viewed as defending sken? especially the fos on me, that was odd imo, anyway, your defence didn't make any sense to me at all, it does a little now, im just not convinced.

[Slandaar]

@Painted: heres the thing, if Deas thinks that Sken's favourite role is playing as mafia, then it isnt a logic fail right? this is an assumption I made based on his reasoning for voting.

[Slandaar]

A fair assumption to make I think?

So I don't see the logic fail, like at all.

Sure its based on meta, but noone else is voting sken based on it, I don't find sken scummy because of it but I think its a fair vote for Deas's POV.

[Slandaar]

Granted she did express minor interest in leaving the game, but only under certain circumstances that didn't apply anymore (the game had started and the newbie limit no longer mattered).

See, Deas didn't know this (I think) I didn't until she explained which is after the vote, so I assume he didn't.

I think this is your logic fail.

[Slandaar]

Sland posts a lot, but not that much per post.

What does this tell you?

[Slandaar]

Oh, and Slandaar, I'd never vote for my scum buddy in RVS. I generally ignore them completely at that stage.

This might be true I dunno, im not going to be taking your word for it though and if it is true, you might want to look into that as its a huge tell.

[Slandaar]

In this post, PFoD basically repeats my earlier argument that scum are probably lying low, but the way he says it reeks of getting attention off himself (and me) - I don't like the way it's posted.

However, I still want to look more closely at the less noisy players. Guttersnipe hasn't voted at all, which is more acceptable that usual considering we got out of RVS in...like...4 posts (which has to be some sort of record), but I'm still not sure what to think on it. Monk (and others have FOSd or voted him based, presumably, on this) votes me without analysis of the situation. The one that catches my eye, though, is metabot, who has posted analysis, but hasn't commented at all on the main conflict.

So, what is the difference? this seems pretty scummy, one rule for one person a different rule for me.

What you have just suggested is literally what Painted said, which you imply is scummy, odd.

[Slandaar]

no its more to do with town need to use their vote to put pressure on people, to help get reads etc. If you dont vote you are not using your main weapon to scumhunt.

[Slandaar]

I still think sken is scum, that interaction between dv/j/sken was weird...

[Slandaar]

To clarify, the reason I'm wary is because I'm confident in my town read(s) at the moment, and I think the people who would get the reads right most often would be scum (obviously, as they actually know who town are). Therefore, I'm uncertain about anyone who's town reads coincide with mine a lot.

I dont think a townie can think this.

now, this actually makes no sense you are confident your reads are correct but think scum get reads right most often? UNLESS you take into account sken knows her reads are correct. (she is scum)

->

My reads are correct
'I am confident my reads are correct', 'I think scum get reads right most often', 'I am uncertain when peoples reads agree with mine'

makes more sense than:

I am a townie who has genuine reads.
'I am confident my reads are correct', 'I think scum get reads right most often', 'I am uncertain when peoples reads agree with mine'... like this literally makes no sense to me.

[Slandaar]

what I would like to know is; of the painted voters; do you think painted comes to Skens aid as scum if sken is town?

I find it unlikely, personally.

[Slandaar]

I think that all painted/sken combinations are quite possible.

Assuming Sken is town, I think Painted is more likely to "defend" Skenvoy if he is scum than if he is town. This is because he knows Skenvoy is town and can attack me because I'm wrong.

They are all possible, agreed, but I think sken town painted scum is unlikely, your view is interesting, I was thinking more along the lines of 'why bother defending someone who is town who is being accused of being scum if you are scum' it also draws unneeded attention to painted, which obviously is not ideal for scum.

I actually feel that Painted is most likely to be scum at the moment because of lots of things, including how weird his attack of me was, which I still don't understand. I just struggle to believe that he actually thinks anything he says.

I actually can see his attack on you as town after his explanation, but I find his other defences terrible. the thing is; terrible doesn't nescessarily mean scum and it is close if its terrible town logic or scum logic imo. I am leaning scum.

[Slandaar]

Skens post re; lynch painted then if scum understand i need to go, could well be sken knowing painted is town, its not town to say lynch them then if they are scum lynch me, because as scum there is no risk for them.

The 'good intentions' are only 'good intentions' if painted flips scum.

Which makes me wonder about J.

[Slandaar]

How many of you are Walking Corpses?

[Slandaar]

I dont really have much to say;

I didnt really intend it, but you would kind of expect him to question it himself which he didnt. Basically what you said was right but i dont know if it makes him scum, its just odd imo.

[Slandaar]

Why is "crying out lurkers" on page 5 odd?
What wording made my last post odd? What about my previous post was not objective?
What should I do to make myself look less scummy?
How do you do an iso?
If I'm really not sure of anybody, should I keep playing cautious?

1. No idea what this is about
2. You missed the point, subjective is useful objective isn't really, it wasnt a good point imo anyways
3. Random a town role?
4. see DVs post above
5. no, help us read you.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, what do you wonder about me?

Who your favourite band is!

Your alignment.

I think you are townish, but I am not too convinced.

[Slandaar]

@Sken: what is your read of me? and why.

[Slandaar]

It is hard to get solid reads when half the players are not contributing much...

[Slandaar]

Dons town.

Pretty much all I have to say about that post.

[Slandaar]

Metabot, why do you trust J on his reads? Do you have a particularly strong town read on him - if not, why follow him?

I will give credit where its due, I had thought that odd also.

[Slandaar]

Fennin might be scum, hmmm.

[Slandaar]

DV can you explain why you think painted ?

[Slandaar]

Too many walls not enough time.

VOTING DON JOHNSON IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

[Slandaar]

And you are posting this without any reasoning behind it?

Yup.

You no likey?

[Slandaar]

Im just gonna quickly add; I think Metabot is town.

it just feels right.

[Slandaar]

meh I think Painted is town, its close, but I believe he really believes DVs vote was ridiculously bad, from there a lot of what he did/says makes sense from a townies perspective.

My reads are individual Sken, unfortunately for you

[Slandaar]

J is the only read which might change I think but I dunno really...

I quite like where my reads are even if sken is town, metabot just seems like an honest newbie who wants to participate but doesnt know really what to say, but he is trying to get involved, i think he is town from that.

[Slandaar]

Hey Delta!

When you catch up I would be interested in your read on me...

[Slandaar]

@Gutter: what do you think of J's reasoning for his read on Sken?

[Slandaar]

Skenvoy IF you are town I need you to convince me.

This WIFOM in the above post (225) is just pointless.

What dont you like in painteds post?

[Slandaar]

sken, please explain why painted is scum, present a case on him.

[Slandaar]

sken, that post was not me saying you are scummy for not presenting a case, it was me asking you to present one so i can see if you genuinely think hes scum or not.

I do find you scummy for your wishywashyness and the way you really dont seem to scum hunt AT ALL.

but that post was not intended as you recieved it.

[Slandaar]

(2) Slandaar - How certain were you of your reads in #33?
(3) Slandaar - Why do you ask what my read on you is in #216?

2. That was really just my way of saying there seems to be a connection, they seem like team scum from that, i guess it was moderate suspicion, which is a LOT for that point in the game.
3. Why are you so concerned with giving your read on me ?

[Slandaar]

IS: literally his content is 0, that needs to improve at some point or he has to be lynched...

I think pressure on sken right now is better though.

[Slandaar]

2. Why are you so concerned with me being concerned about you asking me for my read on you?

I want to know your read on me, why are you so unwilling to give it?

I will give my read on you, i think you be scum.

[Slandaar]

I was interested what you thought due to meta, but whatever, I think you are scum who knew this and was just trying to avoid giving the read, you should know i ask questions like this, so your suspicion is unfounded, which again takes me to the same conclusion, along with your offcharacter intro i find you highly suspicious in your 4/5 posts.

[Slandaar]

by me saying why i want the read, it nullifys your response which is why you avoided it until i gave you the reason.

[Slandaar]

Im not voting Sken based on any meta information at all.

[Slandaar]

The main thing which stands out to me about sken is the absolute lack on any real conviction in her scum hunting, like she does not seem to say someone is scum and stick to it or push it. Its like she is not trying to scum hunt.

[Slandaar]

@DV/Delta

How about you do this

ISO painted

And use this information when reading it:
Deas's initial vote was complete bs.

Does it change your view at all?

[Slandaar]

or, if you could present the overwhelming case against Painted that would be good too Delta...

[Slandaar]

DV, just think of it as scummy.

[Slandaar]

oh sorry 276 should be for DW not DV :/

[Slandaar]

UNVOTE:

I will look at all that tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

sken still seems like scum to me

hmmmm

[Slandaar]

@sken: can you give me a list if reads please?

[Slandaar]

Fennin could definitely be scum

IS could be anything

Painted I think is town but i go back and forward on him a lot....

I dont mind an IS lynch but it is purely a PL, which I think in this case is acceptable...

[Slandaar]

I have never played with IS or looked at any of his other games:

He obviously knows how his play looks, which implies his play is null.

His accusations were not great, but assuming he plays this way all the time he would know if scum go for him first more often or less often that town and from there his accusation does make sense.

However, the original lets look at lurkers came from painted then sken... of course he covered this by saying he didnt read the early pages.

So I just think its null.

However, if his level of content doesnt increase from 0, PL is fine with me.

I got NINA'D but will post this anyways

[Slandaar]

IS post something useful please

[Slandaar]

"something useful please"

You realize that reality will never live up to all the "pressure" and the "hype" right? And Don is already pot committed, he went into this fiasco all in. Meaning that if I look back and find something scummy within the first few pages, which are usually garbage anyways, his hand will be forced to go against it, call me an idiot and say im wrong.

Additionally, im not a PBPA guy, or word analysis scumhunter. I look for voting patterns, connections and fallacies. So clearly, with all this hype and the styles that I have seen so far (like a couple wall -o- texts), the expectations have been set for me to rise from the dead like Jesus and give Judas a serious ass whooping.

Either way, I will poke around and see if I notice anything useful.

I have no idea what hype you are talking about?

Post some reads or something, you dont need to reinvent the wheel, just be useful.

[Slandaar]

Hai.

Will read the thread tonight and try to get a post by Monday (or earlier if time permits).

Not acceptable!! Don! You must assrape Oasis now!

MORE CONTENT!! AARRGGHH!

This made me laugh, a lot...

Then I realised, no content had appeared...

And I went hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Slandaar]

Patience, geesh. Do you realize how many walls -o- bullshit Don has posted already? I think a bunch of you just like to listen to yourselves type. And whats wrong with Don's shift key? is it broken?

I AM NOT A PATIENT MAN, I HAS SCUM TO CATCH, NEED CONTENT NOW!!!!

[Slandaar]

hm, im sure theres a feature that should have prevented that ah well

[Slandaar]

I am gonna have to reread, but from memory, your point on DV seems good...

[Slandaar]

MY TRUE IDENTITY HAS BEEN REVEALED!



@Sken: you do realise I unvoted and have not revoted?

I will try and show why I still find sken scummy later... not enough time right now.

[Slandaar]

At this juncture IS does not seem a great lynch to me i much prefer lynching someone i find scummy...

@Mod: I am V/LA Till monday

[Slandaar]

Metabot/DV 2-post interaction doesn't read town/town to me

DV is giving advice to metabot, but would support his lynch, metabots post was scummy, but DV doesnt seem to voice that, it reads more like in thread scum coaching.

[Slandaar]

Is anyone else wondering where Oasis is?

This reads bad to me too

[Slandaar]

I think DV/Delta/Sken are the best lynches.

IS point on DV was actually very good, like i have no idea why noone else seems to have seriously considered it.

I think i prefer DV because so little attention has been on him, even since IS's point, kind of suggests scum want it to just vanish into the past, forever forgotten.

[Slandaar]

we are close to deadline and you are simply thinking about where a replacement is, does not seem very town to me.

[Slandaar]

Delta what was your case on painted again?

Scummiest player in thread? tons of alarm bells? you want him lynched? then push the lynch.

[Slandaar]

im sure i wrote post #423, could be wrong though...

[Slandaar]

lol i will give you something clearer

Delta is scum

VOTE: DeltaWave

[Slandaar]

I have a trifecta of scumminess on my hands. The deadline is coming up, though, so a decision must be made soon. The possibility of DV being scum is attractive, but I don't know if that's only because "Painted v. DJ" is causing me headaches.

I want something more solid out of you. The tone of #423 suggests, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are throwing some suspects out there because the deadline is approaching. I want to know if you really think that DV et al. are scum, or if you think these are just the best candidates and you have to make a decision because of the deadline. Scum love deadlines because it lets them use the deadline as an excuse later and it hides their thought processes. I'm presumptively suspicious of those who use the deadline in this way. So give me something clearer.

Odd. 426 has the very same tone... Doesnt make sense, if you are town and are thinking in a similar vain to me why show suspicion towards me? nope, you are scum.

[Slandaar]

Delta says:

'Im not sure i find these 3 scummy but im still deciding'

BUT also expects me to

'take a super solid stance on who is scum.'

In other words:

'I can be undecided but you cant!'

Means he has to be scum.

[Slandaar]

I still want to see this case on painted... does it not exist? hes the scummiest player ringing all kinds of alarm bells but delta cant show one thing that makes him scummy???

Odd

[Slandaar]

the post you are talking about has no mention of deadlines and does not suggest in anyway thats why im thinking of those 3 people ... surely if deadline was a consideration i would be thinking about voting a main wagon and not looking at you and DV still.

You explained your position on painted and still have failed to show one reason you think hes scum. Thats not misrep, its fact. Not showing why you think someone is scum and previously saying hes super scummy ringing tons of alarm bells is absolutely scummy.

[Slandaar]

Well, you still find him scummy show me why he is.

[Slandaar]

@Delta: Where was your mistake when you read #423?

[Slandaar]

We have 1 Day until deadline and we still are nowhere near a lynch on anyone.

Heres What we are going to do;

VOTE FENNIN

Why?

Let me tell you a story

A long time ago, there was an argument in this here very thread that Painted and Sken were both scum, this was a raging debate lasting many a day and night.

Meanwhile in Fennin land:

On the other, there are plenty of people, like me, who could be slightly lurking either because of real life issues

or something else entirely

. Thus, to attempt to be somewhat productive in this discussion, I will try to give an objective view on their behavior:

Like what for example? Being scum?

VOTE: Metabot

I'd like to hear more from you. And since you are not V/LA I think you might have time to answer.

He simply ignores the big issue, did Fennin think that Painted/DV/Sken/Me/DJ (the main people in the argument) were all town? he never asked questions he simply comments on whats going on a couple times.

Let me continue with the story however;

The debate rages on accusations were flying 'you're scum', 'no you!', 'hes scum', 'YOU'RE ALL SCUM!!' everyone was intent on getting their man (or woman) lynched, but the wagons never seemed to go very far it was like the scum were off doing their own thing so wagons were not gaining any real traction. Had the scum been interested in the wagons im sure someone would have got past L-3

Back in Fennin Land:

You got it wrong. Read the first pages again, about the theory that Sken could be scum. I simply stated that it wasn't a solid theory because she could also have been motivated to stay in the game due to another role than scum. Nothing more to add to this.

This is all I have to say about the debate. BUT DONT WORRY IM NOT VOTING ANYONE NOW SO IT DOESNT MATTER, IM HELPING TOWN I SWEARS IT!!!

Cue my post:

Fennin might be scum, hmmm.

He also says that the main targets "Painted/Sken/DJ" are all his scum-picks......does anyone else find it a little odd that they are all the same as everyone else's scum-picks. He has all his options open for a lynch at the current time if looking at the bandwagons and the conversation of the thread. Even his town-reads match with consensus being that of DV and Slandaar.

This is a good point also.

The town then all voted Fennin and he flipped scum and everyone celebrated some more than others... to be continued

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fennin

[Slandaar]

why are you not voting fennin delta?

[Slandaar]

Do you think Fennin is town or scum?

[Slandaar]

He could be, but I haven't seen a good case against him.

[Slandaar]

I cant decide if your case on me is scum not thinking properly or bad town.

[Slandaar]

I was just going off what you said

[Slandaar]

Noone in their right mind would lie about the deadline as scum

So your case on me is lol

[Slandaar]

This is stupid.

Why did you people

wait until the last few days to start throwing suspicion at everything that moves?

IS, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously after the way you've behaved throughout the entire game? How can you expect people to take you seriously with what you have in your sig, for god's sake?

I like how you are trying to take no blame when you were part of the problem

[Slandaar]

I been making a pretty damn solid case on Deas.

It was good untill the lurking stuff which is not true. And a couple buzzards seem to be looking at the lynch (Delta/Sken).

Dont you find it off, that people are looking at the lynch but not based on the real core of the case?

[Slandaar]

@Pacman: I was listening to your music in the VC's even if noone else was !!!

[Slandaar]

DV never lurked after being accused, im sure of it, you people who are suggesting he did PARTICULARLY DELTA need to explain.

[Slandaar]

oh hi delta, thats amazing, where did you come from?!

[Slandaar]

that is the absolute definition of lurking

[Slandaar]

You were obviously reading the thread/had read the thread but were trying to stay out of the conversation. ie lurking.

[Slandaar]

I think you dont know what lurking is.

[Slandaar]

lurking IS NOT someone who posts once a day.

[Slandaar]

The timing is too coincidental.

Post #419 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:30 pm

Post #396 (isolation #27) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:10 pm

Im not going back further

Your defence, although plausible, i am not going to accept.

Lurking is a scumtell

and that was legit lurking.

[Slandaar]

The fact you try and defend your actions by suggesting you wouldnt post between those hours, when you have clearly previously been around in the time you suggest you wouldnt post in looks really scummy.

[Slandaar]

Also, the fact delta doesnt seem to understand what lurking is, suggests he didnt know what he was doing.

[Slandaar]

ie someone who knows what they are doing, it looks less scummy, but someone who doesnt, its serious.

[Slandaar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DeltaWave

Hes scum, vote him.

[Slandaar]

The case isnt to do with you not posting during certain hours.

the case is:

1. Delta is clearly lurking.

2. Delta says he doesnt post in certain hours, i proved he does. Hence the lurking accusation stands.

3. Delta then says he does on tuesdays post in those hours, my proof was from monday and saturday...

[Slandaar]

screw it point 2 is a bit ambiguous but its important... here:

Delta posts a couple minute after me when im talking about him. This is one of 2 things; someone who just got to the thread (a coincidence) or its someone who has been reading the thread and staying quiet (a lurker)

So, we need to figure out which it is.

Delta said he didnt post during certain hours, well i showed 2 posts from different days where he has posted a couple hours previous to the timing of the lurking incident.

Why this is important is it shows the chance he just got up and came to the thread (a coincidence) lessens SIGNIFICANTLY.

If he had always been coming on at around the same time, the coincidence becomes more likely.

So, we know he was reading the thread and not posting until called out ie lurking because of the fact he does post in the hours he claims he doesn't.

His defence shows he doesnt understand what lurking really is.

This is important because if he knew what lurking was its much less likely to be a scum tell for him, but for someone who doesnt know what lurking is it IS ABSOLUTELY A SCUM TELL.

[Slandaar]

Why is Delta's potential lurking worse than anyone elses? IS did nothing but answer cat calls for ten pages.

IS wasnt reading the thread, hence not lurking. At least in the real sense of the term.

Big difference.

[Slandaar]

Posting 2 minutes after someone having not posted in hours to respond to a post about you is ridiculously scummy or coincidental.

The chance of coincidence is low due to factors i showed.

[Slandaar]

I would like to critique a case you make delta, but oh yeah you havnt made one.

[Slandaar]

@IS: if you vote Delta with me I will protect you from the big bad DJ! seems like win-win ya?
Anyways, what are your reads on everyone?

@DJ: IS not posting in 10 pages is not scummy, its useless and annoying, but its not scummy. The little content he did post was actually very good (the case on DV), the omgus on you wasnt scummy either.

You both need to vote Delta, seriously, Deltas scum.

@All: we are not lynching the following people today:

IS
DJ
Painted

So move your votes off them and put them somewhere useful.

[Slandaar]

I think hes town.

[Slandaar]

Deltas case on me is my case on him is terrible.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

even though I said yesterday I wouldn't read the thread for about 12 hours.

How about you quote where you said that?

Specifically the bit 'I wont read the thread for' I need to see that bit quoted.

[Slandaar]

It is by far the biggest scum tell in people who dont know of it that I have seen on this site.

[Slandaar]

within 12 hours implies before 12 hours.

so yeah, nice defence.

[Slandaar]

anyway the point is simple:

Scum read the thread and respond if they feel they need to, otherwise they can sit back and let the townies fight

I post about Delta, 2 seconds later Delta is in the thread responding to my post.

This is why his actions are scummy, it can be a coincidence, but I have felt delta is scum for a while and this is the final nail. Its a really scummy action which can be a coincidence, but the timing of it is wrong, i have shown he posts in the timeframe before it, so the argument hes not around before that timeish is invalid.

His new argument of saying he wasnt around for 12 hours is misrepping what he said, he said he would have a vote within 12 hours, which does not mean he wont read the thread for 12 hours.

[Slandaar]

Delta says:

I said i wouldnt read the thread for 12 hours

I say:

Nope you did not

Delta says:

Semantics, townies wouldnt stoop so low.

[Slandaar]

I said I'd think about it and have a vote within 12 hours.

Delta says: "12 hours or so" (reality is that it took 14 hours)

Spot the difference

[Slandaar]

well considering he uses my response to 587 and puts it up aginst a post from ~ 200 posts ago and suggests it was my response, yes.

[Slandaar]

Delta doesnt understand the case this is the problem people are picking at arguments that are not the case here it is simple;

Delta lurked

He tries to say he couldnt post in the said timeframe and was a coincidence, i show that he had posted previously in that timeframe so coincidence seems unlikely.

Simple.

All this 12 hours stuff is him trying to defend himself from the lurking but literally it doesnt matter, fact is simple; he still has not commented on anything other than the post i called him out on, which implies he HAD read everything hence lurking when i posted. Otherwise he would have made some mention of it afterwards when he caught up.

I even say its either coincidence or lurking, but he tries to completely deny he could post before that point, why? it makes no sense, what has that got to do with anything? how am i supposed to know if he can or cant post then? i showed he does post in a period hes saying he doesnt, the evidence points to lurking.

[Slandaar]

I dont really have the time to show a whole case on delta, but look how he just forgets his suspicion of DJ, he fence sits but insists others cannot and then finally he has not provided anything to the scumhunting all day.

I asked him repeatedly to provide why he thinks painted as scum but he couldnt show one thing, he just says some vague thing, but painted was the vote he was going to 'default' to? cant show one thing?

He is now trying to use meta against me when previously he had denied that using meta between the 2 of us was viable... so, why is he now 'trying' to use it, and hes using it wrong, the game hes talking about i used this said tell which hes calling a good case but now is saying its terrible? if you need proof i can show.

So, delta, explain.

[Slandaar]

I've already explained.

ORLY?

I dont remember you explaining why DJ just disappeared off your suspects list...

or why Meta is now valuable...

huh.

[Slandaar]

you are arguing semantics.

which is what you said i was doing.

[Slandaar]

Trying to prove you were not lurking by saying you could post in a timeframe is not really helping your cause.

My point about saying you said you couldnt was my view on why you were saying it was ridiculous.

if you could post in said timeframe as you now claim, then why is the lurking accusation so surprising?

Deltas reaction to lurking:

You are grasping at straws

me: you were lurking

Delta: what?

So, deltas comment about grasping and not understanding the lurking comment shows cognitive dissonance, in one post he knows what im suggesting in the other he doesnt.

[Slandaar]

huh?

if you could post in the timeframe it backs up what i was saying

so why would i lie in favour of your argument?

makes no sense.

[Slandaar]

the case has nothing to do with you not posting during a certain period.

its to do with the timing of your post.

Is it too complicated to understand or do you misrep continually on purpose?

[Slandaar]

taking things out of context is pretty scummy.

I was saying; you could post in a timeframe so the coincidence is less hence you saying you can post in that time supports what i was saying.

Then you were saying the case is that you didnt post in a 12 hour period.

Its not.

Thats not it at all.

Why do you misrep continually?

[Slandaar]

even though I said yesterday I wouldn't read the thread for about 12 hours.

In Post 662, you stated that DeltaWave claimed "he couldn't post in said timeframe." I proved that to be a lie in my Post 664.

You can post but not read the thread huh? amazing.

[Slandaar]

see we can both take things out of context like that. Why do you keep doing that though?

[Slandaar]

Deltas Painted Case

(Deltas amazing contributions to scum hunting)

Delta Replaces in when Sken/Painted are under a lot of heat, although I had started to think painted is town and DJ seemed to be leaning that way also.

heres his top scumread:

The case against Painted is overwhelming.

or, if you could present the overwhelming case against Painted that would be good too Delta...

Even though I may end up repeating what other people have said, I will do this. You may not see it until tomorrow though, as I have a night class and I might come home so late that I will end up passing out.

Good, Good, lets see this case... Here it comes...

The sheer number of alarm bells Painted has raised, from the very start of the game up until now, is staggering. It's been discussed at length in this thread; in fact, the first few pages seem devoted solely to this topic. I don't know if a rehash of individual points will do anyone any good.

I AM CONVINCED! GOOD SCUM HUNTING DELTA!

I explained why I found Painted scummy; for the most part, others had made the case before me so I wasn't going to repeat it, but I referred to the Skenvoy/Painted interaction earlier in the game.

I see, but you didnt suspect Sken? you thought scum painted was after town DV? and now you think DV and Painted are scum? your reads seem to make sense...

Painted's knee jerk reactions in the first three pages of the game are reason enough to be suspicious of him. But the case on Painted has pretty much gone stale in the last ten pages, and Painted's case against DJ gave him some townpoints in my eyes.

That painted case went a bit flat, why was that again? oh yeah lets recap : mr 'case vs painted is overwhelming' did not present said case. Meanwhile I was starting to look elsewhere and so was DJ... I cant guess what happened there.

Delta still finds painted scummy but does neither: try to push the lynch or try and question painted to get a town read, he just keeps his 'safe' painted=scum read.

Delta Forgetting he suspects DJ

Painted was the scummiest player in the thread at the time I made that comment, but times change. Painted made some excellent points against DJ that are making me question his scumminess. Then DV comes along and says he'll support a lynch of almost everyone in the game, even though all those people can't possibly be scum. I have a trifecta of scumminess on my hands. The deadline is coming up, though, so a decision must be made soon. The possibility of DV being scum is attractive, but I don't know if that's only because "Painted v. DJ" is causing me headaches.

Who is Scum??? Is it Painted??? Is it DJ??? or is it DV???

P-Edit: I'm in the midst of determining who is worse, PFoD or DV. If I'm still stumped after a while of thinking about it, I'll default to PFoD.

ITS PFOD YOU GUIZ ITS PFOD, hang on where did DJ go from this list? VANISHED!

Deltas Home on the Fence

Painted made some good points against DJ in his last case. In fact, some elements of that case are on my own personal list of strong scum-tells. Yet, I also suspect Painted. I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

I CANNOT DECIDE! TOWNIES TELL ME WHO TO VOTE I CANNOT MAKE DECISION WITHOUT YOUR BACKING!!!

He could be, but I haven't seen a good case against him.

Yeah Fennin might be scum, I dunno, I need someone to present a case on him so i can vote him

I don't know which one I'm leaning towards,

(DJ and PFOD)
I CANNAE DECIDE YOU GUIZ HELP ME OUT

I want something more solid out of you.

give me something clearer.

YOU CANNOT BE UNDECIDED! I NEED TO KNOW IF YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE MY BUDDY!!!

Deltas Backtrack on using Meta (between us):

I don't know much about your meta. I've only played one game with you before (my newbie game.)

I got nothing on you in meta, i know nothing about your game we only played once together

@DeasVeil - I absolutely hate meta-based arguments so so so so so much.

I hate using meta

I know you to be a very reasonable player when you are town. I've seen your townplay and you are not inclined toward making bad cases

Plus, I know Slandaar is a good townie. I've played with him before and he formulated some of the best cases in that game. Then he comes out with this. This isn't Slandaar-town.

I can use Meta now though, because it suits my purpose, I had nothing to say earlier, I couldnt give any info out, but now, its ok to use meta.

Deltas Lurking:

Post #543 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:17 pm :

DV never lurked after being accused, im sure of it, you people who are suggesting he did PARTICULARLY DELTA need to explain.

Post Post #544 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:20 pm

It's not like he stopped posting entirely, but he did back off significantly.

Deltas Cognitive Dissonance:

oh hi delta, thats amazing, where did you come from?!

You asked what I thought, so I told you.

You're really grasping for straws here.

This bit suggests he knows what im suggesting. If he doesnt, why is he saying im grasping for straws? what does he think im implying?

that is the absolute definition of lurking

What are you on about?

I have no idea whats going on now, but I did a second ago, thats ok though I will change my defence.

Conclusion:

Delta is scum.

[Slandaar]

theres the case on delta, his case on me is my lurking accusation is bad.

GL with that case.

[Slandaar]

I still suspect you DV.

Painteds a bad lynch, noone has really presented a case on him, this is one of the main issues with delta, he says painteds super scummy but cant show one reason why.

IF YOU SUSPECT PAINTED, SHOW WHY.

[Slandaar]

That case is weak because it hinges on one point;

Did Painted genuinely think your accusation was scummy? if you think there is no way, then he looks scummy for sure. But I think he did think it was, even as scum hes not going to attack a point he thinks is legit is he... so he genuinely views your vote reason as terrible, from there his actions make sense from a town perspective.

[Slandaar]

Re Deltas case:

Scumtell: Slandaar flip flops extensively

Slandaar was apparently sure that we should lynch Fennin in 457. Then changes his vote to me in 559

Sounds more like opportunistic scum. Nobody was really biting on the Fennin case, so you might as well try out something on Delta, right?

Flip Flopping... thats 100 posts later, you never change your mind? Ridiculous accusation. I even have had Delta as scum for a while, so its not like i jumped from Fennin -> town read.

Scumtell: Slandaar has not been actively scumhunting

Look at Slandaar's ISO. Up until he started to suspect me, he took noncomittal "oh maybe so-and-so is scum" type posts. On the other hand, I've been actively questioning other people and using those questions to establish relationships. My scumhunting is effective; he's been doing nothing.

I could get a ton of quotes from our ISO's to show this as wrong, then show who really is the noncomittal one but eh, just ISO us both.

Scumtell: Attempting to manipulate the town.

In Post #581, Slandaar apparently tries to form some alliance with IS on the condition that IS votes for me.

IS thing was a joke obv.

Defense: My position on meta is consistent.

As I mentioned in my last post, I was being correct when I said I didn't know Slandaar's meta because I've never seen him play scum. Only town. I do not like meta-based arguments, but my argument is not based in meta. I made a few statements about meta as a side note. Yet another misrep by Slandaar.

Your meta stance changed from not willing to give a read using some meta to using meta to back your read. That is scummy.

The rest of the case is Delta thinking 12 hours has anything to do with my case which it doesnt, at all. Which is what i repeatedly said.

The only interesting point is the 1st one, but amusingly its my town tell so whatevers, you need meta on me to know if thats scummy or not. I find it easier to read people by looking at their reads on me. I know how town and scum generally view me, I also thought Delta might mention something interesting based on meta, but he refused, then uses meta later...

[Slandaar]

Painted, if you are voting DJ, move your vote.

DJ is not being lynched.

You are wasting your vote and considering you are worried about deadline, you should realise this and be looking to move onto a wagon with some chance of being a lynch.

OR, you could try and push the wagon.

Why are you doing neither?

[Slandaar]

Mini 1266 Day 1 Official Lynch Pool:

Delta/DV/Fennin/Sken

(I do not like lynch pools, they are too easily manipulated by scum)

[Slandaar]

Slandaar's Official Votecount.

[J] (0):
Metabot (0):
FightingShadow (0):
don_johnson (1): Painted Face of Death,
Skenvoy (1): Fennin
DeasVail (1): Internet Stranger
Painted Face of Death (2): DeasVail, Guttersnipe
DeltaWave (2): Slandaar, don_johnson
Fennin (2): J, Skenvoy
Internet Stranger (1): Noramp,
Slaandar (1): DeltaWave

Not voting: Outskirts Oasis, Metabot



FENNIN, PAINTED AND DELTA ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH MORE THAN 1 FREAKING VOTE AND THEY ONLY HAVE 2

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

STOP WASTING YOUR VOTE, IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE 1's MOVE YOUR VOTE, OR MOVE IT WHEN YOU SEE NOONE IS GOING TO MOVE TO VOTE WITH YOU BY TOMORROW, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR VOTING ALONE, WE NEED WAGONS, NOW.

[Slandaar]

@IS: if you had to vote one of painted and sken earlier in the game around post 200, who would it have been?

[Slandaar]

also, IS, I need you to SHOW me where DV's posting style changed.

[Slandaar]

The neighbour stuff is interesting but it doesnt change anything...

Painted is backing up my read on his early game stance

[Slandaar]

Oh and Deas is the scum. The cheerleading is scummy as fuck. Pushing wagons like a champ and then backing off and letting others beat them up. Constantly weaves in and out of conversations like someone trying to pretend to be useful without being in the spotlight. Time to die, scum.

@DV:This is the part of the case i find compelling, the changing style i never said was good.

[Slandaar]

It's so deceptive to call it "100 posts later" when it was about 15 posts in your ISO. You can't count everyone else's posts to make it sound like there was a long time between these two posts.

Yep i am deceiving everyone, so if someone makes 5 posts in a 500post game they cant change their opinion once? huh, seems good.

At the time you voted for me, your case was weak. You've build upon your case with new misreps when it became obvious that nobody was buying it (and several people actually ridiculed it), but let's look at your case

when you voted me

. It was weak. Everyone knew it was weak. But for some reason, that was enough to bring you from your apparently certain Fennin vote to your apparently certain Delta vote. Town doesn't flop around like that. The timeline is clear: you came out with this case against Fennin. It generally wasn't accepted. So you shifted gears onto me.

Why? if i am scum does that benefit me? nope, it does not.

My case was always there, I just hadnt shown it all, a bit like your case? or did you invent your case after you saw mine cos you thought you would look bad?

Nope. I said that I didn't know your meta. As in, I don't know how you play scum

and

town. So I have nothing to compare it to. I can't say "Oh yeah, I know Slandaar's meta and he plays scum this way..." But I do know how you play town, and you are not playing town.

You still have nothing to compare it to, so your stance did change. The sample size of data did not increase therefore to say you wont use it as evidence, then say you will is 100% changing stance.

It's also great how you announce a lynch pool then announce that it's easily manipulated by scum. You're speaking out of two sides of your mouth.

lol, Delta, really?

It's a major scumtell to be pushing for a lynch like you are pushing for a lynch, Slandaar. You want to herd people toward this vote pool regardless of whether or not they think the people in it are scum. A townie does not have the mindset that "any lynch is a good lynch, as long as it's not myself of course." I can't believe that I'm the only one voting for you right now.

Thats not my stance at all, I want people to lynch who I find scummy, I clearly defend certain people in thread, which is funny, because it shows i take stance, which was one of your accusations wasnt it? now, where have you defended someone? oh yeah, you havnt... any lynch but yourself right? Fence Sitting backs this up.

[Slandaar]

It's not like he stopped posting entirely, but he did back off significantly.

OK, show me you are town Delta:

Show me where he backed off significantly, ie give me the time period in which he did

[Slandaar]

Im not sure what it is... games im in always have super long day 1s or people suggest they are super long anyway

[Slandaar]

Painted, what noramp did is null, literally null.

[Slandaar]

Painted your attack on DV and now Noramp are terrible.

That doesnt make it scummy, which is why i dont like your wagon.

[Slandaar]

Painted its null because:

we have NO IDEA how the mod assigns roles to the neighbours.

So, what this means is a neighbours alignment is not any more or less likely to be scum than anyone else.

What this means is noramp outing the neighbourhood does NOTHING. It is not an indication of his alignment, or of the 2 other neighbours.

hence null.

[Slandaar]

The case on Delta is a ton better, just sayin.

[Slandaar]

I just think painted is town...

Who would be in for a super quick sken lynch?

[Slandaar]

@CG: what do you think of sken?

[Slandaar]

Painted I dont like how you are encouraging me basically to vote CG, you want me to save you, show me why I should vote CG.

[Slandaar]

Im sure Delta is scum, he failed to show where DV changed his posting style/backed off, hes just regurgitating what IS said without scumhunting himself or checking the facts.

[Slandaar]

Delta, who are my scumbuddies if im scum?

[Slandaar]

Everyone just vote Delta, hes scum.

[Slandaar]

you can tell who the townies are, its the people looking to sort out a lynch.

the scum are the ones sitting on their votes.

I think;

IS/Delta/Sken could all be scum

[Slandaar]

the reason i suggested sken is because i had tried the cg/delta wagons and they were not going to happen

why sken? scum read for like forever.

why cg wasnt on above list? he has only just joined game so not sitting on vote.

why no DV in list? same thing, still think there is decent chance they are scum. but they are not sitting on votes so i left them out of the post.

IS: he seems to think DJ's changing votes is scummy, this isnt true unless one of the main wagons is scum, so why not vote a main wagon? (CG/Fennin)

[Slandaar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IS

[Slandaar]

Yeah, metabots scum, look at his posting history.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metabot

[Slandaar]

Painted lynch isnt as bad as i thought it was his survival instincts kicked in recently, but I still think hes town.

Metabots posting history tells me hes trying to stay off the radar by acting newb, he can definitely contribute, hes just not, hes scum.

[Slandaar]

I think shes scum

CG, im town, you know it, I know it, so vote metabot with me and if im wrong you can blame me tomorrow, seems like a good strat for you right?

[Slandaar]

Delta look at metabots posting history.

IS is active lurking, i saw him online.

[Slandaar]

I take it back

[Slandaar]

you signed out while writing the big post i guess?

[Slandaar]

Thats not what im saying;

http://mafiascum.net/forum/search.php?a ... 4&sr=posts

hes posting in a different game but not here, hes not as newbish as he makes out here, so hes scum here hiding under the newb guise.

[Slandaar]

DJ vote metabot

IS vote metabot

Delta vote metabot

[Slandaar]

what question did i miss?

[Slandaar]

She is too agreeable, rereads and gets a solid fennin = scum read which is ok, but then take into account everyone in the game, the reasons behind it, does fennin stand out? nope, I imagine she planned to attack fennin because a fair few accusations towards her before then were 'lack of scumhunting' and that she was being really wishy washy.

Her interactions or lack of with certain players are telling also, but she isnt being lynched today and im not going to write my full case on her.

[Slandaar]

Her postings also dropped off dramatically since she got out of the limelight.

Shes really scummy, but theres no support for the lynch bar DV, so its a nogo.

people need to get on Meta.

I might switch vote later if it makes a difference, i think IS lynch > painted, but right now thats moot, CG seems townish since he joined. The taking vote off painted to meta looks town as it has some risk associated with it if hes scum.

[Slandaar]

see how quickly i can come up with why sken is scummy?

compare it to delta and his read on painted, he couldnt show one thing, he basically said all his points had been said already.

Why do you think I think Deltas scum?

a mystery

Still, get on meta town.

[Slandaar]

I don't know what to think of either of you. I think you both have aggressive personalities and you happened to meet in the same spot and then you exploded.

More fence sitting.

The guys scum

[Slandaar]

You do make a good point on Metabot. He has seven posts, including his "Confirm" post, and the only thing he ever committed to was a vote on PFoD when it was a safe bet.

"Good point, im just gonna waste my vote as i dont want to save town painted"

[Slandaar]

Thats not the main argument against you.

You make some good points occasionally, but it gets lost in the aggressiveness of the rest of your posts.

Why dont you switch votes to someone who might be lynched today?

Make your vote count.

[Slandaar]

The situations are different, the attack on you came about when painted was starting to look townish to me, he goes after you for posting to avoid prods but not contributing.

Metabot was being prodded so seemed inactive (the difference), Metabot has now been proven to be active however on the site at least.

The case on you now, however, is much larger now, so you cant compare the two incidents as you are trying to do.

[Slandaar]

i think votes are tied between painted and CG...

[Slandaar]

there is no way CG is scum, hes nearly sacrificed himself moving his vote off painted...

[Slandaar]

Lets just go to day 2, painteds vt, its safe, i need to cast decider here, i dont think cg can be scum.

i do think painteds town though :/

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Painted

[Slandaar]

this day isnt over?

how long left?

2 people vote metabot, i will switch over after wagons are 4/3/3 to avoid ties

[Slandaar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metabot

[Slandaar]

Im happy with this metabot lynch, the voters are pretty town to me

[Slandaar]

noramp who is scum iyo except IS?

[Slandaar]

yeah i find IS's stance re changing votes scummy.

'Painted is a beacon of reason' made me lol

[Slandaar]

Scumvoy what is your opinion on recent events?

CG?

Painted?

Metabot?

[Slandaar]

CG moved his vote off painted when wagons were 4/3 with me around and hasnt returned.

why would he do that unless painted and he are both scum?

Hes town, im pretty sure.

Painteds survival instincts worry me, hes voting meta with dj, to vote WITH his biggest scum read, i can definitely see painted-scum now.

[Slandaar]

I didnt know when deadline was so 'impossible to know when to change vote back' might be better suited.

[Slandaar]

Skenvoy/Noramp/Delta team scum?

hmmmmmmm

[Slandaar]

like noramps last post is so bad i would be in to lynch him lol

[Slandaar]

I can be wrong about painted

A flip on painteds role gives tons of info for town tomorrow, it helps town way more than a no lynch which does nothing.

[Slandaar]

Yeah when I voted with what I thought was 40ish mins left this is what i saw

Painted: 3 votes

CG : 3 votes

CG voting Metabot.

this equates to a no lynch, so why are you trying to say anything else?

[Slandaar]

Delta take the blinkers off.

Give us a full list of reads.

[Slandaar]

OK townies stop fighting amongst yourselves

Lets get a good wagon going...

VOTE: Skenvoy

[Slandaar]

Im gonna reread this IS/DJ/Noramp/Painted Junk at some stage, I think you are all town though.

Sken/Delta seem like the best scum candidates to me

[Slandaar]

Sken can you give a full list of reads with explanation and who are likely buddies of your top 2 scum reads, thanks.

[Slandaar]

Case on sken is large but this is the point which I cannot forgive:

Pushed Fennin, CG replaces, she stays quiet, stays out of the main conversational topics while everyone is fighting trying to get a solid lynch (she does not care who is lynched), her vote never moves, like Deltas, they are both scum, but I know there wont be support for Delta, so go Sken.

As a townie you need to compromise, both of these 2 did not have reads throughout the whole of the end of the day to change to or defend, its so scummy to sit on one person throughout that whole debate and not even look at other options. Especially as Fennin although suspect had posted little and was not some lockscum type guy. Sken was overexaggerating on an easy target.

[Slandaar]

Sken/Delta also makes sense as a team, no reason not to think they are both scum, think about scum combinations, Sken and Delta are 2 that fit into them when otherwise you find yourself thinking 'well maybe if OO is scum i got a scum team...'

[Slandaar]

Thats L-1 I think

[Slandaar]

Painted is scum then...