Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Tue May 19, 2015 11:22 pm

LQ, it is likely that the "1.00" represents the fact that it is the 0th vote count of Day 1, so the next one that Monkeyman posts (the first proper vote count after Day opens) will be 1.01, then 1.02, etc.

Hello everyone. I'm excited about the theme here more than the game size, but I'll cope as best I can.

Warning:

I'm flying out to Orlandomeet and then Raleigh on Friday so I'll be a bit busy with meet stuff for the next couple of weeks, but I'll check as much as I can. I imagine that my companions will be sympathetic to our man here being in a mafia game.

VOTE: Jamierus Confess.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #10 (isolation #1) » Wed May 20, 2015 1:40 am

You don't have to worry about me not being around frequently enough to post, or not posting anything beyond one or two words. I'll be checking and reading, just not for several posts a day.

Ludicrous: Your character's name, or your main's name? If the latter, sod off. Also, why no vote?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #18 (isolation #2) » Wed May 20, 2015 3:15 am

I don't wish to bash a newbie, so don't take this the wrong way, but I think your questionnaire will function only as noise rather than give us an early insight into who knows everyone else's alignments, LQ.

Y'all should get on the Jamierus wagon. It's going places.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #20 (isolation #3) » Wed May 20, 2015 3:36 am

In post 19, LicketyQuickety wrote:How?

I've been around for a while and I've seen plenty of people attempt to open a game with 'random' questions instead of votes. I've never seen it accomplish anything.

Why?

Let's find out.

Also, for reference, my username is commonly abbreviated to CDB.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #24 (isolation #4) » Wed May 20, 2015 4:27 am

My wiki is hilariously out-of-date. I wouldn't trust it on much past the abbreviation.

Do you think my questions are random? If so, what makes you think so?

I use "random" in the context of previous attempts at a "random question stage" or RQS, which is what I've seen attempted before. While you no doubt chose those questions deliberately (in as much as calling RVS 'random' is also nonsense), those are the exact sorts of questions I've seen before.

So iirc, bandwagoning on a player not yet active accomplishes something? What might that be? How does that work? Why is RVS alone the optimal strategy early day 1?

Maybe I have a reason beyond what I've said in the thread. Maybe I don't. Maybe we should see what happens when Jamierus arrives into the thread with a bunch of votes on him. Maybe we should see who gets uncomfortable when Jamierus has a bunch of votes on him. I don't know what will happen (unless I do) but there's a bigger chance of

something

happening by

doing

things.

RVS is also lame. Nothing past your first vote should be random. Don't get hung up on terminology! Just dig at things!

I don't really want this to turn into a newbie game, even though there are a bunch of people whom I either know are new to the site or whom I don't know at all, so I don't really intend to say much more about pretty basic, dull shit like being a good townie on Day 1. But proactivity is protown. Scum want us to have a longer and more passive start to the game, because that gives them less time on their toes.

Also I guess I ought to rewatch Season 1, although I'm still stuck midway through season 7 in my most recent rewatch. I can't remember a lot of the guest stars.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #26 (isolation #5) » Wed May 20, 2015 4:32 am

UNVOTE: Jamierus
VOTE: Narninian

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #177 (isolation #6) » Thu May 21, 2015 9:28 am

I haven't yet read pages 3-6, gimme a few minutes.

In post 169, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 150, Sinsun1 wrote:But now I must wonder, is it good or bad for town that we guessed it. For all we know,
he's 3rd party
and we just unlocked his ability to kill and be immune at night time.

Why are you assuming third party?

This is a great post, though. Could see myself voting for Sinsun shortly.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #188 (isolation #7) » Thu May 21, 2015 9:49 am

In post 109, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 26, ChannelDelibird wrote:UNVOTE: Jamierus
VOTE: Narninian

This strikes me as a Role fish vote, correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong.

1) Why did you vote Narninian after me if you thought this?
2) Why did you unvote Narninian here?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #192 (isolation #8) » Thu May 21, 2015 9:58 am

In post 190, LicketyQuickety wrote:It was a failsafe vote in the attempt to keep others from voting for him while putting added pressure on him to produce info. He saw through my vote and it was now doing nothing so I unvoted.

Did you genuinely believe that your voting for someone, putting him at a positively moments-from-doom lynch-minus-nine, would dissuade others from voting for that person?

Did you find me suspicious for doing something that looked to you like I was rolefishing? Rolefishing is something that scum like to do, so they know who to kill.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #194 (isolation #9) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:01 am

Klingoncelt needs to have some opinions about things that aren't Ludicrous's flavour, pronto.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #196 (isolation #10) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:09 am

In post 195, LicketyQuickety wrote:That early in a game this big? yes.

Lynch-9 is not a point at which anyone on this site is going to be scared of putting down another vote on someone. In fact, quite the opposite. Momentum is helpful early on. But mostly people just aren't going to think 'gosh, Lickety voted Narninian, now I'd better not, just to be safe'. So if your Saint vote right now is intended to stop a bandwagon forming on him, now would be a good time to realise that you're not Gandalf standing tall against the balrog of public opinion, you're just a dude who's using his vote in the opposite of how it ought to be used.

I brought up a possibility that was not previously considered and it gave people the idea to keep their mind open to possibilities.

You haven't actually answered the question. Did you think it was suspicious? Did the possibility of me rolefishing occur to you at the time of your vote on Narninian or was it something you wondered when rereading?

What do you think of me right now?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #198 (isolation #11) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:30 am

In post 197, Saint wrote:This guy is town. He is the type of player that cares about himself surviving more than winning. He is the type that wouldn't have claimed a negative role d1 because he wouldn't care if he hurt the towns chances. However I believe I can teach him . I used to play exactly like he does now back in 2009.

I'm not saying he's scum. I'm just trying to get a picture of what he's thinking so that I can work from it, get a read from it, then pretty much ignore him for the foreseeable future so that other people don't get suffocated out of the thread.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #202 (isolation #12) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:41 am

Again, I don't have the energy to play IC here, so just going to skip challenging you on habits and assumptions from years of experience elsewhere.

In post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:How do you know my current vote is to keep people from voting that person? That is your claim at least.

My bad if it wasn't, but it came just after you were talking about how you voted Narninian in order to discourage votes on Narninian, so I assume you can see why I interpreted 'get in before a bandwagon on Saint' to mean 'let's stop a bandwagon on Saint by voting for him, because apparently that's how I do things'.

I have absolutely no read on you art this time.

You should get one. Do you think I'm town genuinely trying to figure you out?

It was an after thought and the thought occurred to me of the possibility when I reread the thread. That's the answer you want right?

Why would I ask the question if I wanted a specific answer? I wanted you to answer truthfully, so that I could better understand your intentions in this game.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #204 (isolation #13) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:43 am

Vigs should by all means feel free to off LQ Tonight, but I'd rather aim to lynch scum Today.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #208 (isolation #14) » Thu May 21, 2015 10:58 am

In post 206, Hostile Intent wrote:AW, C'MON BIRD!

SHIT.

Meh. I like the intent of your case but not the meat of it, and I think Saint's characterisation of him as survivalistic town looks accurate so far.

Anyway, let's get on with something else.

UNVOTE: Narninian
VOTE: Sinsun

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #215 (isolation #15) » Thu May 21, 2015 11:31 am

Well, congratulations on having a claim from the best episode of the season. That looks pretty legit.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #234 (isolation #16) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Wait, your role PM doesn't include your character's actual name?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #235 (isolation #17) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:20 pm

STAND DOWN. I forgot he didn't get a real name on the show.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #239 (isolation #18) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:24 pm

Wait, no, Jesus, I can't even read Memory Alpha coherently.

Saint, explicit yes or no answer: Is Marritza the person whom you are pretending to be?

PEDIT: You really should watch it, Saint. Although season 1 has its teething problems, your character's episode is fantastic and it grows to be the best Trek, IMO. This is the last time I will go on about how much I love the show, though. Promise.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #241 (isolation #19) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:25 pm

LQ, if you are quoting a particularly long post, could you please in future either snip out the parts of it that you're not directly addressing or just link to it instead?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #243 (isolation #20) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:32 pm

In post 240, Saint wrote:Yes

OK. In the context of the show, this is factually inaccurate. Aamin Marritza, the office clerk, was impersonating Gul Darhe'el, a Cardassian war criminal.

Very tempted just to straight vote you right here. I feel like Monkeyman, a huge fan of the show who just recently rewatched season one before starting this game, should know well enough to get the names right here. However, due to the somewhat slapdash nature of the role PMs in this game, I can just ever so slightly buy that maybe something got mixed up.

I'm trying to go through all the possibilities here. If you're scum whose flavour has nothing to do with Gul Darhe'el or anything about that episode, then Marritza the miller is a pretty great fakeclaim to have dug out of nowhere when you didn't have to, especially if no safeclaims were provided (I don't know about that - anyone got links to Monkey's previous theme games? - but the nature of the PMs again makes me want to guess that they possibly don't). If safeclaims were provided, Marritza's far from an impossible one and that might explain why you botched the flavour.

Conflicted. Would appreciate others' thoughts.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #246 (isolation #21) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:37 pm

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #249 (isolation #22) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:40 pm

Do I seriously have to be the one who tells you to PM the mod about it?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #256 (isolation #23) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:49 pm

In post 251, Saint wrote:I don't want mod influence to ruin the game cDb.

I don't want him to post in this thread about it. But if I were town in your position, I'd ask him privately to clarify what my role PM meant. That's not going to ruin the game, that's due diligence.

I think I lean town on Saint's reactions to all of this, but he might need to be vigged for safety's sake.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #259 (isolation #24) » Thu May 21, 2015 12:54 pm

Wagon Sinsun with me for a bit.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #453 (isolation #25) » Fri May 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Gene Roddenberry sounds like a made-up claim from scum without fakeclaims.

If Senator is claiming supersaint, we should have Lickety hammer him Today. That's clearly the best move here.

Also, vomit. Everywhere.

VOTE: Senator

I'm now going V/LA for Orlandomeet and Raleigh. Will be on the iPad 'til the 6th.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #576 (isolation #26) » Mon May 25, 2015 1:50 am

unvote

Tone is hard to read on the internet. Did not get the joke at all but totally willing to accept I misinterpreted.

There's at least seven players right now whom I'd lynch just to stop having to see them post. LQ and millar chief among them. I still think Roddenberry's a bullshit claim.

I've only skimmed the last few pages, though. Will try to read more this evening.

VOTE: LQ in the meantime

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #688 (isolation #27) » Wed May 27, 2015 10:30 am

LQ posts make me want to slam my head into the wall. Roddenberry is still a godawful claim, BP just happens to be the single most convenient scumclaim in the universe, he's not played like one either (kudos whoever noted that he claimed it triggers on NK as well) and I think it's worth the risk to lynch him

Ludicrous, what is it you think i should have seen on skim that I didn't, and why should it have overruled my own thoughts

Undermining my cred while I'm on V/LA is something that would only make scum happy btw as the ratio of sensible posters:infuriating noise-makers is particularly skewed in this game as it is.

Unlikely to have time to read in more depth until I'm on a quieter day at th Commune tbf (maybe Monday) but I'll do what I can tomorrow. Still not sorry for being on the trip so soon afte gamestart given when signups began but do feel bad that I can't do more. Think LQ dead venefits town but a look at klingoncelt wouldn't be bad based on hs early nonrelevant posts IIRC

Bye for now

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #776 (isolation #28) » Wed May 27, 2015 4:43 pm

People blindly refusing to lynch LQ just because he wrote the word "beloved" are more likely to be scum than town FYI

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #780 (isolation #29) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:01 pm

Literally my second-last post explained why I want to lynch LQ as likely scum.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #783 (isolation #30) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:04 pm

No reason to delay killing scum based on a vig who may or may not actually exist. If we're wrong and he's town, his ability triggers on NK same as on lynch so it gives no advantage

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #787 (isolation #31) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:17 pm

Hint: mafia won't NK him in order to get us to mislynch him. The only way he gets nightkilled is if he's vigged. I just won a game as scum by leaving the distractingly bad BP alive to endgame so that town had no choice but to mislynch him for the loss. Best practice is to kill him now and reduce scum's knowledge of our roles because it's early game so that the extra night does less damage to us if he's actually town

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #788 (isolation #32) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:18 pm

I realise you said some of that in your second par there but i responded immediately because the first one was so dismissive

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #789 (isolation #33) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:19 pm

Also remember GENE RODDENBERRY IS A SHIT FLAVOUR CLAIM, HE'S SCUM

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #790 (isolation #34) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:20 pm

Roddenberry didn't even fucking create DS9 ffs, he'd be better off claiming Berman or Behr

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #791 (isolation #35) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:21 pm

I mean we basically just got confirmation that scum weren't given safeclaims which is nice. Otherwise he wouldn't have to make up someone who is not a character on the show

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #793 (isolation #36) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:30 pm

NO WAITING, YOU DON'T GIVE SCUM TIME JUST BECAUSE. YOU KILL THEM.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #826 (isolation #37) » Thu May 28, 2015 2:25 am

Klingoncelt is LQ's buddy. It doesn't matter whether or not the show had Roddenberry's blessing. HE WAS NOT A SEASON 1 CHARACTER.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #827 (isolation #38) » Thu May 28, 2015 2:32 am

The ONLY way that LQ should not be lynched is if Nero Cain can find and link us to mod meta of Monkeyman including such a flavour deviation in a previous game. LQ's claim is bullshit until proven otherwise.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #831 (isolation #39) » Thu May 28, 2015 5:08 am

In post 828, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:

If LQ has claimed as Beloved Prince, he's either confirmed scum at LyLo, or town. I don't know what you're smoking, CDB

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6902395

It is NOT that simple. Given how badly LQ's avalanche of nonsense posts are distracting the thread, plus dichotomous views like yours, surviving to LyLo as town is DESIRABLE for scum.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter that he claimed BP. He claimed a flavour role that DOES NOT FIT THE SETUP. HE IS SCUM WHO WAS NOT PROVIDED A SAFECLAIM SO CLAIMED SOMETHING WITH NO RISK OF A COUNTERCLAIM.

THIS IS NOT DIFFICULT

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #832 (isolation #40) » Thu May 28, 2015 5:16 am

LQ WILL NOT BE NIGHTKILLED IF HE IS TOWN BECAUSE HIS FLAVOUR WOULD BE SO INCONGRUOUS THAT IT WOULD BEG US TO LYNCH HIM

HE CLAIMED BP TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SCARED OF WHAT THAT ROLE DOES TO TOWN

I am genuinely sorry to be the capslock guy here but honestly this is really obvious. The time to call him on his bullshit is now because, if we're wrong and he's town (reminder: he's not, Roddenberry is not a season 1 character), then the damage done is at its least right now because scum have less information about which roles they most need to kill. The longer we wait to call his bullshit, the higher the risk, which is ANOTHER REASON WHY HE WON'T BE NIGHTKILLED.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #836 (isolation #41) » Thu May 28, 2015 5:26 am

In post 833, Hostile Intent wrote:Are you positive Gene didn't make a Stan Lee-esque cameo in an episode?

That's literally the only thing holding me back here.

HE WAS DEAD

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #837 (isolation #42) » Thu May 28, 2015 5:28 am

In post 834, Senator wrote:CDB, you are trying to push this too hard. Its not like we only have 3 days to figure him or the game out. Killing him now is more detrimental to the town PRs than killing him day 2 or 3.

Town PRs work whenever and are more likely to survive a double night if we do it now because scum have had less time to pick up hints on who they are.

HE MUST DIE. HE CLAIMED A CHARACTER WHO CANNOT BE IN THE GAME.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #852 (isolation #43) » Thu May 28, 2015 7:00 am

No. Scum.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #894 (isolation #44) » Thu May 28, 2015 8:48 am

Titus, I'm cashing in all my chips on LQscum. He's clearly scum. You're too good not to realise that too.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #902 (isolation #45) » Thu May 28, 2015 8:52 am

It's not a lie to say that your claimed flavour is not a character from season 1 of DS9, LQ.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #911 (isolation #46) » Thu May 28, 2015 9:10 am

OK this is me not even bothering to argue with Titus. She's going to be wrong this game. Not worth my engaging, at least not while at a meet.

Those who can see sense should vote LQ. It's the only reasonable decision.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #924 (isolation #47) » Thu May 28, 2015 9:33 am

OK sorry Titus, your tone came off like you were hardopposing LQscum.

I'll happily work together tomorrow. I think Klingoncelt is scum too for the record (in case I die) and there might be a couple other proto-reads in my iso but I've not had time while here at chambermeet to focus on more than the LQ lynch

TAL's been pretty bad tbf

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #996 (isolation #48) » Thu May 28, 2015 12:16 pm

Reminder not to try to convince the scum that they are scum

Just lynch them

ChannelDelibird · Thu May 28, 2015 12:26 pm

Yes, you're exactly right, nobody else at all wants the lynch, that's why nobody else is voting for LQ

This game is going to give me an aneurysm

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1118 (isolation #50) » Fri May 29, 2015 3:19 am

If Monkeyman posted a video of the credits as a way to remind us about Roddenberry then I'm replacing out because

fuck that

.

However, I'm still calling bullshit on Roddenberry as a character in this game, on LQ as actually being a BP, and on any time other than now being the correct time to get rid of such an awkward claim and distracting player.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1126 (isolation #51) » Fri May 29, 2015 5:40 am

In post 1123, LittleGumball wrote:
In post 204, ChannelDelibird wrote:Vigs should by all means feel free to off LQ Tonight, but I'd rather aim to lynch scum Today.

Channel
, why has your viewpoint on this changed?

That was before he claimed. His claim necessitates his lynch.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1226 (isolation #52) » Fri May 29, 2015 9:18 am

Why are we even talking about lynchers when LQ tried to selfhammer when he was caught. Lyncher on scum? Ok sure let them win, if it'd end the game that'd be terrible setup design but at least the game would be over. If there's any lyncher on LQ they'd presumably just leave as winners so that'd be no problem for town

Also WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT LYNCHERS

How is this so hard to get through

ChannelDelibird · Fri May 29, 2015 11:00 am

Not worth it, HI.

ChannelDelibird · Fri May 29, 2015 11:56 am

At least Narn will be here as the voice of reason Tomorrow. I don't trust anyone else to do things sensibly after this ridiculous Day

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1372 (isolation #55) » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:54 pm

This game is infuriating.

In post 1365, Senator wrote:Next

YOU ALL ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE FOR SENDING US TO DOUBLENIGHT BLIND!!1!

Nope, still better than scum knowing who to kill. Town power had 55 pages to figure out good targets for investigation. No regrets.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1373 (isolation #56) » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:56 pm

That's not me crumbing an investigative guilty btw, guess I should clarify

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1396 (isolation #57) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:01 am

Maxwell's last post doesn't look like a hider crumb to me; if there's something else that makes you think he wanted to target me, please say so, but hiders want to confirm town and stay alive, and Maxwell had me as town if LQ were scum, expressed hesitantly. After LQ's town flip, I don't see why he would hider-target me to what he expected to be his death when several people were willing to lynch me if LQ flipped town.

Klingoncelt vote is for previously stated reason that her early game actively avoided comment on real developments and reads in this game, in favour of talking theory/flavour/similar. Scum want to put off stances if they can get away with it.

Of course, my sympathies also go to Klingoncelt. That's really rough.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1397 (isolation #58) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:03 am

I'm flying back from the US later today; will be back on Sat night but probably working/sleeping until Sunday. After that, will reread some of D1 to look for people who knew that LQ was town.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1401 (isolation #59) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:16 am

jesus, Senator, 19 alt-slips is too fucking many. If you can't use two accounts, DON'T USE TWO ACCOUNTS.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1403 (isolation #60) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:35 am

Not a joke. Improve.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1412 (isolation #61) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:50 am

Re: hider 'crumb', I refer you to #1396.

Also if I were scum I wouldn't have killed people who supported me on Day 1. Saint and Hostile Intent both had my back re: LQ.

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:06 am

This game hasn't been my first priority since I landed yesterday. I'll catch up over the next 24 hours (possibly tonight if jet lag keeps me awake long enough).

ChannelDelibird · Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:58 am

Whoops. Hang on. Investment in this game has been pretty low since I realised the depth of the shitshow. Can't promise being caught up tonight but I'll aim for some contributions tomorrow.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1754 (isolation #64) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:49 pm

I don't think the game state is toxic nor do I think my wagon is truly terrible, though I think it's probably pretty bad because the supposed crumb really doesn't look like how a hider actually crumbs things (plus I know he didn't and the deaths support Max having hid behind Saint on Night 1, not me). I also suspect that scum are more likely to support my wagon as an opportunity to mislynch someone who can occasionally be good at scumhunting but lost cred for that maddening LQ flip.

My real frustration is that Roddenberry was a role in this DS9 season 1 game, that the mod might have hinted at it while we were running him up, that LQ played it so infuriatingly poorly, that the first thing we got after finally removing LQ's avalanche of nonsense was an incoherent wave of senator/pisskop bullshit, that frankly a lot of the people left alive are varying degrees of frustrating or irritating to me (I would normally actively avoid playing with at least one of them).

Basically I don't trust any evidence of the first 70 pages of this game that the rest of the game will be any fun for me. And it's not that I chose to ignore the game as a result - I fully intend to play it through and try to win - but I can't really help that my mind has been wandering to other, more exciting things on this site when I'm logged in.

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:52 am

Catching up with this over the next couple of hours.

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm

Reading everything from the start of Day 3, will put conclusions into a longer post. Just quoting this because it'd fuck up the formatting if I saved it for that post:

In post 1665, PeregrineV wrote:If you have something that speaks stronger than this post about who the Hider picked to investigate, then please give it. Otherwise, it's WAYYYYY too obvious he hid behind you.

Two deaths on Night 1, one of them a Hider
One death on Night 2

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:59 pm

In post 1673, ArcAngel9 wrote:I ll be gone fro 10 days from this Wednesday. I want to sort my reads before that... I am going to Thailand.

Mod, Please note my V/LA from 11th June to 21 June, I ll be returning on 22nd and I probably wont have internet while I am on vacation

WHY DID YOU JOIN THIS GAME FFS

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1798 (isolation #68) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:21 pm

Senator is behaving with extraordinarily unearned arrogance and just taking everything that isn't explicitly agreeing with him as butthurt scummy, but I think this mindset is more commonly seen in town. Bad town. Very bad town. But town. I also probably agree with him when he says that scum were likely sitting around a bit while he had the largest wagon, hoping that it would be pushed through.

Sinsun's desire to sheep dead people as of 1556 is probably a towntell as long as he actually goes ahead and does the work to see who the dead people suspected ... and no, he doesn't, despite getting an answer to his question about if an iso feature exists.

Sinsun, why did you drop your desire to follow who the dead people suspected?

Jesus, this game is so fucking empty. There are a full three slots from which we've had essentially nothing (ArcAngel9, Zabing12, LittleGumball). It is beyond a fucking joke that the mod has allowed LittleGumball to just fucking disappear on V/LA for over two weeks, it is beyond a fucking joke that ArcAngel replaced in knowing that she was about to go V/LA with no internet access.

Jamierus is close to that level of nothingness, but he's actually posted a handful of times and his pattern more closely matches 'scum who really can't put in the effort, especially when people aren't pestering him', so I'd entirely welcome a policy-ish lynch on him because I think it's got a decent chance of getting results.

I'd be saying similar things about displaced in terms of a lack of posting frequency likely implicating an inability to invest much effort into a scumgame, but his posts when he makes them are sufficiently extensive and inquisitive that I come back more to townish.

Klingoncelt posts with a sensible frequency with basic legibility and sanity which, given how some others are approaching things, probably means that we should leave her completely alone for at least three Days for our own mental health. Same more or less goes for Narninian, though I'm not a huge fan of the suddenness of his conversion to my wagon.

Thor is likely town by role.

From what I've read of RIP, I don't think that he has his town self-confidence here. All I see is a very poor excuse for why it's not here. He's probably scum.

Probably take Nero for town.

No idea about davesaz; nothing that he has done in this game has been at all memorable. Might be easier to read later when the numbers thin.

If there's scum in the Senator/Peacebringer argument, it's PeaceBringer, but I've seen town get lost in extensive diversions with infuriating posters and he does go for it quite a bit, so I lean ever-so-slightly townish. I'm pretty meh on the rest of his play, though.

Not really got any idea about PeregrineV. The crusade on me doesn't seem very alignment-indicative either way (Town could certainly fixate on that interpretation but it's also very easy to fake as scum to give your Day play some direction) and he doesn't usually read very easily to me in other games so I guess I'm just hoping he'll get sorted out at some point.

No idea about Titus, probably never will, whatever

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1799 (isolation #69) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:26 pm

In post 1797, Thor665 wrote:I feel like you think this is a knockout - but I fail to see how it is.
Whether or not there is one scum group shooting does not actually suggest the Hider didn't hide behind scum.
What am I missing here?

When I saw the Night 1 flips, I thought 'Max hid behind Saint? Yeah, that makes sense' and thought nothing more of it. I mean, I guess you're right that it doesn't preclude the Hider from hiding behind scum, but a claimed miller seems a pretty sensible hider target. There's also the fact that I know I'm town, so I know that either there was something fucky like a redirector (I'm not ruling anything out in a game with fucking Roddenberry) or (more likely) he just targeted Saint and ate the nightkill.

I thought Saint was pretty obvtown after our flavour debate, so yeah, decent hider target if you gamble that scum are going to try to kill a positive utility power role instead of a miller.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1800 (isolation #70) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:28 pm

Spoiler: Unofficial vote count, think this is right

UNVOTE: Klingoncelt
VOTE: RIP

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:14 pm

Yes, vote me to 'compromise' with five days before deadline just after I catch up and get fully engaged again. That doesn't look like a calculated attempt to off me before I say something sensible at all.

ChannelDelibird · Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:06 am

Yup. #1827 is just wrong.

ChannelDelibird · Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:24 am

RIP, as previously stated. After the last page, maybe Titus. Possibly PV/davesaz based on mild-to-strong townreads elsewhere. Man, it's like I this over the last two pages.

ChannelDelibird · Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:24 am

EBWOP: "like I said this"

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1861 (isolation #75) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:08 pm

In post 1839, Thor665 wrote:@CDB - you have had a hammer intent posted against you and posted since then without claiming. Was this intentional? I'm fine with you if you'd prefer to not claim prior to being hammered, i just want to make sure that's your goal.

I didn't claim because I don't intend to be lynched. However, seeing as enough people seem to be willing to yawn onto the Max thing, I guess I'll do that in my next post. First, though:

Also - any changes to your last read list? Or is it still solid at this stage?

This is just not a smart question. If you've read my posts over the last few pages, you know that I think the timing of Titus's move onto me looks like a direct reaction to me actually starting to say things Today, which looks plausibly scum-motivated, so you know that I'm saying when things are changing from my last reads list (which is still only a handful of pages ago). "Still solid" implies that I've shown no flexibility since that big catch-up post and for someone who criticised Titus for not properly paying attention to my posts, I just ... I need you to be sane in this game, Thor, because I think you're town and I have little-to-no faith in a huge chunk of this playerlist. Fucking read what I'm writing, OK?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1862 (isolation #76) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:12 pm

I'm Julian Bashir. Here's me trying to crumb this at the start of the game in a way that I thought was somewhat obvious but, in retrospect, probably wasn't as obvious as it ought to have been:

In post 7, ChannelDelibird wrote:I imagine that my companions will be sympathetic to
our man
here being in a mafia game.

Reference to episode 'Our Man Bashir'

In post 18, ChannelDelibird wrote:I don't wish to
bash
a newbie

Obvious

I was trying to play up my identity on Day 1 in the hopes that an attentive scumteam would catch it and nightkill me in the hopes of killing a Doctor, but I'm just a Vanilla Townie. Then LQ flipped town for some fucking reason and now we have this deeply unsatisfactory Max 'crumb' so I guess that's permanently off the table. Hooray.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1866 (isolation #77) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:24 pm

In post 1865, Titus wrote:CDB, reads please. Like full on wall reads. We are near deadline.

Iso me from three pages ago and add a scumread on you. Stop pretending that #1798 doesn't exist.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1867 (isolation #78) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:24 pm

In post 1863, Klingoncelt wrote:You're Julian Bashir but you aren't the Doctor? That's weird.

Sensible setup design.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1872 (isolation #79) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:32 pm

In post 1870, Titus wrote:1798 just bitches IMO. I am not seeing clear conclusions.

Then you're not reading the fucking words, because I explained where I stand on every fucking player.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1874 (isolation #80) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:49 pm

If I'm going to die immediately, I guess the main thing to take away from my reads is the following:

RIP is probably scum. People will say 'blerg generic lurker vote' but different people lurk differently. RIP's behaviour here shows disengagement and lack of self-confidence, which he doesn't lack as town. Jamierus is another whose lurking looks worse than other people's; he looks like scum who is wearied by keeping up an active facade and is taking advantage of the fact that nobody knows who he is to just hang around in the background.

In as much as I can ever read Titus, her treatment of me over the last few pages is pretty scummy. Trying to play down my reads as 'just bitching' and moving onto me at a time that looks very much like trying to make sure that a potentially useful protown voice is silenced before anyone realises that they're making a mistake.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1877 (isolation #81) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:55 pm

I'm sorry, did you expect a read on slots who don't post? Should I have anything to say about the ArcAngel slot other than 'what the actual fuck is this'? On every active player, I said where I stood. Sometimes that's not going to be a definitive 'scum/town' because reads don't work that way all the time, but

PEDIT OH, NOW THAT PART IS READS? That's EXACTLY what I said about RIP and Jamierus in that post you're writing off as 'waa waa all whining all the time'

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1878 (isolation #82) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:56 pm

Like, if you only read the first three paragraphs of a 13-paragraph post, just say so, but you can't act as if I haven't been saying this sort of thing already.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1880 (isolation #83) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:00 pm

Kinda done with this for the time being until people other than Titus post, because either Titus is scum and she won't want to grok that I'm town or she's town and we have approximately zero history of understanding each other whatsoever.

It's not like I'd be sad about no longer being in this game, but :wincondition:

PEDIT: Go on, show the class how my opinion on RIP/Jamierus there is any different at all to when I said it in 1798. Go on.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1883 (isolation #84) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:15 pm

You never learn. It's astonishing. Bye.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1885 (isolation #85) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:44 pm

You realise that, if Max died because he targeted me, you'd still have to explain why scum shot Saint, right? Unless you think Max didn't hide behind anyone and got nightkilled. Then you have a Night 2 with only one death to explain.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1886 (isolation #86) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:50 pm

Also I'm not saying we don't have a Doctor, just that it's somebody else if we do. When I ran a DS9 game back in the day, Damar was the Doctor, so y'know, wouldn't rule anybody out.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1890 (isolation #87) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:49 am

Thor, FFS, context. Davesaz specifically said that his vote stayed on me because he couldn't explain why scum shot Saint. I was pointing out that someone shot Saint and, until evidence otherwise is apparent (i.e. More than one non-hider death in a night), we ought to assume that it was scum, therefore Saint being shot is not a reason to maintain a vote on me because Saint got shot whether or not Max hid behind me. The 'didn't hide' thing was to show that implausible things have to be true for his reason to make sense.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1891 (isolation #88) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:51 am

Forgive me for getting angry about the reads list thing, I suppose - an early start on little sleep and a lot of a cold plus gamestate equals cranky - but the fact that I spoke to a changing read on Titus should have made it clear that I'd say when reads change within three pages of a list.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1893 (isolation #89) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:08 am

I didn't take it as an attack on me so much as a really lame non-reason to keep me hovering too close to death than is appropriate. It just irked me because it was nonsense. I'll maybe concede that pushing him on soft distancing might have been a more productive line of enquiry but I've seen town make posts like that and I'm more interested in getting votes off me and onto an outright scumread in RIP than start mucking around with a fairly null read.

On ipad right now so no detailed quoting and slow typing but will go into peacebringer next

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1894 (isolation #90) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:12 am

Peacebringer townlean isn't about RIP vote. As previously mentioned I feel like there was some degree of genuine frustration in his back-and-forth with Senator. He was barking up that tree with quite a lot of gusto - not unfakeable but more likely to come from town who think they've caught scum, in my experience

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1916 (isolation #91) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:35 am

Titus: how, if at all, does TAL's restriction at the start of Day 1 factor into your read of Thor?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1920 (isolation #92) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:39 am

I have spoken to that more than once, davesaz. The doubt factor of someone being a miller is reduced massively if the player looks obvtown, which I think Saint did after the palaver about the mod getting his flavour name wrong and then correcting it. Marritza was unlikely to be a scum role and that clarification + Saint's general play looked very town.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1929 (isolation #93) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:52 am

In post 1926, davesaz wrote:
In post 1920, ChannelDelibird wrote:I have spoken to that more than once, davesaz. The doubt factor of someone being a miller is reduced massively if the player looks obvtown, which I think Saint did after the palaver about the mod getting his flavour name wrong and then correcting it. Marritza was unlikely to be a scum role and that clarification + Saint's general play looked very town.

Admittedly it's a blind spot for me, but if I were scum I'd want to use the opportunity of double night to kill unknown power roles. The miller can wait. Scum killing the miller in this situation is
very
suboptimal from a pure theory position.

And that's why we took the risk of lynching LQ when we did! Scum could go for a known likely townie with suboptimal role elimination or try to find power in an unknown. They didn't know enough to have a more optimal Night.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1937 (isolation #94) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:09 am

In post 1933, davesaz wrote:Scum know he's a townie, by definition. They would be better off with two unknowns. Unless there is a specific reason why
scum
need to kill a miller. Doesn't town need to eliminate a miller, as a possible scum fakeclaim?

No, I mean,

we

knew he was a likely townie, based on flavour stuff & his play as I said above. That's the reason to kill him. Town only needs to eliminate a miller if they fear the claim is fake.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1945 (isolation #95) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:18 am

Yes, I have no reads, which is why I'm not voting for anyone or calling anybody town or scum or saying whether I think posts are more likely to come from town or scum

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1951 (isolation #96) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:22 am

In post 1948, Titus wrote:I literally have ZERO idea on who you would want lynched if you flip town.

It is literally impossible to believe this.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1957 (isolation #97) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:37 am

In post 1948, Titus wrote:I literally have ZERO idea on who you would want lynched if you flip town.

Spoiler: Me telling you who I think is more likely to be scum, potentially for reference after my death (literally includes the phrase "If I'm going to die immediately, I guess the main thing to take away from my reads is the following")

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1960 (isolation #98) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:53 am

You can discredit if you want to; whether deliberate (you don't want people to trust what I have to say) or accidental (you are incapable of accepting things that aren't specifically baked into the cookie cutter of your own mind), you absolutely cannot say that you don't know who I would want lynched if I were to die.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #1965 (isolation #99) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:10 am

If you think I am town, then you believe me when I tell you that's who I'd want lynched! This is me explicitly telling you that those are the people whom I would want lynched. And what's more, I expect to be listened to! I am scumreading them. I'll shout it from the hills! I AM SCUMREADING THEM! Do you realise that it's kind of insulting for you to

correct me on what I am thinking

? That the specifically chosen ways in which I word things aren't actually what I chose? Every game, you insist on reframing my behaviour as it came from you. It didn't. It came from me. This is how I play. This is how I think. I think that my thoughts are valuable; if I hadn't reached a minimum bar of success from thinking this way, I would be trying to think differently but I get by pretty well as I am. You're allowed to disagree, to say that my thoughts are not valuable, but you're not allowed to DENY THEIR EXISTENCE.

You say the word 'lurk' as if everybody lurks the same. They don't! I think RIP is behaving in a way that makes him, specifically, look like he has a scum mindset. I think Jamie matches the specific sort of lurking pattern more commonly seen from scum mindsets.

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:12 am

For the record, everyone: as of right now, with a gun to my head, I'd say that Titus is town. My 'timing tell' doesn't look like much in comparison to, yes, her coming around to me as town and analysing my wagon. I'm not in complete opposition to her accusation of cognitive dissonance on Thor but I think TAL's restriction was more likely to be from a town role than a scum, and I'd much rather be lynching RIP in this situation.

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:48 am

I'm not interested in a Sinsun lynch right now.

Probably not going to have much else to say at least today (IRL) because I'm pretty ill but I will be refreshing a lot so will try to answer any questions if they come up.

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:45 am

In post 2031, Titus wrote:CDB, you too.

No.

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:01 am

Over me, sure. But I think Senator is town and Thor is likely town. Klingoncelt I obviously had some issues with early game but, if town, she's one of the only halfway sane people in terms of posting frequency and legibility, which makes me pretty uninterested in lynching what's a fairly null read over the 82 pages, especially when it would involve dismantling the RIP wagon, in which I actually believe.

Obviously I'd vote for any of the three over me, but I'd rather just lynch RIP.

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:40 am

I assume that the discussion point would have been the fact that I crumbed early in order to try to draw a nightkill as doctor-by-flavour, and whether or not people believed that that came from town or felt that I'd faked it as scum. Nobody seems to have commented either way on that - not even Titus, who initially brought up the idea that my claim should be discussed - but I guess that's what's more to it than just the words "vanilla townie" out of a vacuum.

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:49 am

In post 2055, Titus wrote:I think a Molla quote is apt, "Hammer without a claim is a scum claim. No exceptions."

How about we wagon people for things that actually happened, mmkay?

Ifeellikeimtakingcrazypills.gif

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:58 am

ChannelDelibird · Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:17 pm

How many times have you seen an entire scumteam vote someone at the same time with no town also on the wagon, Klingon? Your view of things is damagingly simplistic and arrogant.

ChannelDelibird · Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:23 am

For someone who asked me whether any of my reads had changed, Thor, I don't know why you're not asking about whether or not people felt that my play

after

my claim has changed their minds rather than the claim itself.

ChannelDelibird · Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:00 am

In post 2110, Thor665 wrote:Also, presuming you are town, what do you think of you being obligated to claim, and then people turning around and wanting a claim after yours.
Do you think your claim looked townish?
Do you think your play post claim looked townish?

1) What a silly question. I remain irritated with the fact that it got to my needing a claim based on what little there was, but I certainly prefer seeking someone else's claim, someone who might actually be scum other than myself, whom I know is town and am therefore incentivised against lynching, than ... what? Rolling over and saying 'I claimed, guess I might as well be finished off?' No.

2) I'm in a bad position to answerthis question because I know it came from town, but I suspect that it's not as obvtown as it might have been as I likely overestimated the obviousness of my early-game crumbing so the desired effect of drawing a nightkill might not have happened even if the LQ backfire hadn't been a thing.

3) I figure I've been pretty transparent about what I'm thinking and feeling, so sure.

ChannelDelibird · Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:09 pm

UNVOTE: RIP

Existence of beloved prince supports the claim, think the things that bugged me about RIP fit mould of someone trying to lay comparatively low until power activates

Will figure out where my vote is going tomorrow, this was the last thing i refreshed before bed

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:31 am

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Better than a Senator vote.

At work at the moment but will be back on in a few hours to talk more about things

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:15 am

In post 2181, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2170, ChannelDelibird wrote:Existence of beloved prince supports the claim

It does? Explain then, I'm totally missing it.

The nature of a role that only activates on Day 4 coupled with a beloved prince that can provide something like a gauntlet for that role to run before its power is earned really chimes with my modding instincts. It's not a guaranteed support, and my hurried about-to-go-to-sleep wording from last night could probably have done with less certainty, but the relationship between the two roles really rather struck me.

Thor wrote:1) It is not a silly question, allow me to re-phrase it in a way you can't get confused about; Do you think there were scum on your wagon? Do you think they were rolefishing, lynchfishing, or both? Where do you think they are now?

Man, you worded that poorly. I'm going to come back to that in a moment when I've had a chance to pull up the vote counts and see exactly who was on it. I wrote this post out of order and I already know it's going to be pretty long so I'm keen to break it up.

2) I cannot imagine how you thought those crumbs would pull a NK. What do you think of the reaction to your claim? Specifically the people saying they believe you are Bashir while unvoting you...does that not strike you as crazy-sauce?

You know how they say that the only one who realises how crazy you are is you? We're our own closest observers. With time, I can easily admit that those crumbs were not obvious enough to be picked up even by scum who's looking for role crumbs if they don't know the flavour very well. As someone who signed up for this game only because I'm a huge fan of the flavour, though, I certainly felt at the time like I was being somewhat transparent about it. I'm pretty sure I toned them down as I was writing them for fear of being too obvious. 'Bashir' is the first word that comes to my mind when I hear the words 'our man' (plus the wording of that sentence was so awkward just to include 'our man' that I figured someone would notice that

something

was up with it). When I was writing 'bash' I was almost telling myself that someone would just call me out in thread of being Bashir (it's something you're more likely to notice if you picked up on the first crumb, though). So, in retrospect, no, I don't think they would have been enough to draw a nightkill even if LQ's flip hadn't just made me a mislynch option, but for a DS9 fan expecting other DS9 fans in this game, some of whom might be in the scum team looking for crumbs? I thought at the time like I was overplaying my hand. And the thing that you should be looking for from me is my intent, not the effectiveness of my execution.

While I generally share your opinion that we shouldn't assume that good guys in the show can't be scum in this game and vice versa, all the flips that we've had so far have been from characters (or other shows' creators, grumble grumble) who were good people - or at least, not bad guys. I can understand why people would go 'oh, yeah, he's probably Bashir, which means he's probably not scum'. I'm not going to disagree with you when you tell people that being Bashir doesn't guarantee my alignment, but I'm also not going to go around yelling at people who unvote me because of it because a) clinging to that is more likely to be an inexperience tell than a scumtell for a lot of players in this game and b) there'd be a bit of the turkey arguing for Christmas about it.

3) Enough to garner unvotes when compared to your pre-claim game?

Probably? Off the top of my head I can't recall if I posted more before or after, but I certainly got more emotional - at least with Titus. I don't really want to talk about this, though. I don't really see self-analysis being very helpful because I know I've been town the whole way through, and I've had no trouble agreeing with every one of my posts this whole game, so I'm pretty willing to call myself obvtown before, after, and during my claim.

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:50 am

Wagon on me just before my claim:

ChannelDelibird (8) - displaced, PerigrineV, Narninian, davesaz,

Titus

,

Senator

,

Thor665

,

RIP

[L-1]

Green is people on whom I am leaning town or better. Do I think there were scum in the first four, then? Probably. The fact that I didn't get murderdied likely means that some scum were already on board.

I don't think anyone was rolefishing me per se - I think, between (still undeserved) unpopularity for driving the LQ lynch and a maybe-sorta-but-pretty-ambiguous supposition of a hider crumb, plus being a player who sometimes plays OK and has a lot of experience, I was likely an obvious and tempting mislynch target. So yes, it seems likely that scum on my wagon would have leaned on that pretty hard.

The problem is that, if town thinks they've seen a hider crumb, they also probably hit it pretty hard. One of the reasons why I've not been super-into deconstructing my wagon like this beforehand is that this is something of a jackpot for scum in that wanting to get me lynched is pretty easy to fake given that I can't even say that I mightn't be voting for myself in your position, especially after RIP's claim. God knows I've thought about encouraging that because I would just love to not be in this game any longer, but a wincon's a wincon, so I can't with a straight face back that plan because the crumb is far too tenuous to justify calling for my own death when I know I'm town.

Displaced might be scum. I isoed him in the process of making this case and he's kind of a prime example of someone who's barely commented on my claim because he presumably just thinks it's bullshit and that I have a hider guilty on me, and I don't know him well enough to say if this particular way of approaching it is subtly more scum or town. What

does

make me wonder is his representation of my relationship to the LQ wagon here, which doesn't look like someone who actually read in real time and actually tried to understand my not-exactly-opaque thought process. He seems to be blending together my attitude at the start of Day 1 with my attitude at the end, which doesn't make a lot of sense and doesn't consider how reads evolve and why. But then I'm not really on the verge of saying 'wagon displaced for this!' because do we really have time for a displaced wagon based on that? Meh.

davesaz seems fairly townish, actually, in his conflict between thinking I look town and not being able to get past a couple of things, but then actually getting past them when it comes to nutting up and voting RIP instead, rather than just sit on me despite publicly fearing that I might flip town.

PV is irritatingly concrete on the 'crumb' as a guilty on me, and I can read absolutely nothing into it. I don't think I've ever been in a game with PV in which I was town and got more of a read on him beyond 'he's kinda lurking a bit' and again I've got nothing interesting either way here. He could be scum just trying to shove through a mislynch on circumstancial evidence, or he could be town who believes that all this talking about what he sees as damning evidence is unnecessary. I've got no idea.

Narninian might be scum, actually. He's not been here for a couple of days and he's certainly not talked much about anything since around the time my wagon got to its peak. I said in a previous post that I thought his move onto me was a little unimpressive and it doesn't look any better on second read, plus his subsequent move off me is pretty abrupt and empty. I'd probably vote him over most, actually.

tl;dr

Narninian might be the best candidate for scum on my wagon. Displaced is maybe my next guess.

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:53 am

Vote count right now as I have it unofficially:

ChannelDelibird(4) - displaced, PerigrineV, Thor665, Senator
Senator(4) - Riabi, KlingonCelt, Titus, Sinsun
RIP(3) - Salamence20, Nero Cain, Narninian
KlingonCelt(2) - RIP, ChannelDelibird
Narninian(1) - Suzune

Not Voting(3) - ArcAngel9, davesaz, The Fox

I'm more inclined to vote Narninian than Klingoncelt at present but I expect that the likes of Titus would follow me onto Klingon if, as I hope, the Senator wagon doesn't take off any further, whereas I don't know so much my townreads' positions on Narninian.

Of the current wagons (and there shouldn't be any new ones attempted, probably), my preference is probably: Narninian > Klingoncelt > Senator > RIP > CDB. Talk to me, people, and let's make something happen.

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:14 pm

In post 2295, Klingoncelt wrote:That said, I'm very curious about Narn's claim to be Deep Space 9.

That was obviously a joke, like obviously

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:15 pm

Anyway, let's do this shit

UNVOTE: Klingoncelt
VOTE: Narninian

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:16 pm

I don't think Senator is doing things that he's more likely to do as scum than town

I just think he's aggressively not good

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:24 pm

a) Probably not 7 scum out of 21 starting players, not that this is actually important right now but it's part of the reason why I'm not investing much stock into your opinions atm

b) I just told you my preferred lynches of the current wagons, get with the programme

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:25 pm

I know you don't invest stock btw, it's late

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:39 pm

as if only town push wagons on town.

If you want to know what I think about people, try reading my posts. How many times do I have to say that I'm in the habit of saying when reads change, so a quick look over for the most recent thing i've said about people should do you fine

It's not like I'm going to be nightkilled anyway so not super worried about AAAA GET READS LIST OUT BEFORE NIGHT FALLS

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:00 pm

I'm being snippy because the way reads work isn't that you figure out how many scum you think there ought to be and then crowbar in as many people as necessary. You just look at people individually and go with what you find. You ask me to name you seven scum, I say sod off because you should already know my thoughts on everyone because I told you, and everyone, what they are.

What slotting players into quotas of how many scum there 'must' be (still not 7, btw, because it looks prettyobvious to me that you'vecome from some other site somewhere where the setups and quite different) does is that it works against nuance. When I decided that RIP was town after his claim, somebody else didn't just get scummier to take his place. Reads are individual, especially with no flipped scum for associatives.

There's also the funny thing where your own reads list just above isn't as comprehensive as you seem to demand from me.

I think Narninian might be scum - certainly more so than the other wagons with a chance of going somewhere today - and I have said plenty about why all of that sentence has been written. So I'm voting him to try to make him dead. And beyond the fact that I don't agree with you on Senator, I don't know what you think is missing from that

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:01 pm

In post 2314, Titus wrote:That is pretty town. The only question why it may not be town is if he's mmimicking what I had with CDB.

What is?

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:03 pm

Oh, that, sure. Yeah Sinsun's town

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:42 am

Oh I still 100% think that my stance on LQ's claim was exactly on point. I think it's an absolute nonsense that Roddenberry is character in this game, and especially when a player as disruptive and distracting as LQ claims beloved prince, especially as an implausible character, I did exactly the right thing.

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:56 am

In post 2331, Thor665 wrote:I really dislike this "well, questioning people doing stuff that benefits my chances of avoiding lynch (as a VT) is silly of me" line.
It does not read as town.
VT town's job is to question stuff and place votes.
You're acting like your job is to survive. It is killing any glimmer of town I get from you when you occasionally say something that is not empty and look like you're scumhunting.

I'm not unsympathetic to this (I recognise that it's not something that's going to win me friends here), but consider the following:

1) My job partly

is

to survive, at least in as much as it is to kill scum before we are dead. I know that lynching me does not get scum, ergo resisting my own lynch is important.
2) I am even more conscious of the necessity to push to survive at the moment because it would be

so easy

just to say 'well, I guess we can afford to clean up the ambiguity in the supposed crumb by just getting my lynch out of the way', especially when I am actively hating participating in this game. Even if you guys end up following through and lynching me, I won't be sad. But I don't want to throw more replacements into this game and I don't want to be one of the many slots phoning it in, so I am left with no option than to continue playing to my wincon until I can't, for integrity's sake. Resisting a lynch based almost only on a wholly unconvincing 'crumb' is, like, the first thing to address on that front.
3) You're acting as I'm not trying to do both survive

and

figure out who's scum and place votes, and I'm doing what I can.

Second verse, same as the first.

What the smurf were you expecting me to say here? I don't think that there would have been any response to that question that would have made you happy, but I don't see why my answer should surprise you.

ChannelDelibird · Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:33 am

Senator's belief that claiming character name is enough to prove his alignment probably means that his alignment is town

But then he was already town

Can we stop lynching him now thanks

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:34 am

Anyone got a picture of what the vote count looks like right now, guys? Just catching up on something else and I'll be in here afterwards, will put my vote where it's most useful to get us a lynch.

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:51 am

Well, I don't want to do this, but I'd rather do this than no-lynch.

UNVOTE: Narninian
VOTE: Senator

I think that Senator is town and I would prefer for us to lynch Narninian but we need to lynch someone and, if we can't agree on anyone else, then you actually should lynch me just to stop the hider thing from hanging over future Days.

PEDIT: While I think you're town on play, simply claiming Kira Nerys does not make you town. There is nothing stopping any given character from being scum or from being a safeclaim given to scum. RIP, pay attention to that too. It is common modding practice to make some 'obvious' characters either not what you expect, or not in the game at all and instead ammo for the scum to claim. How on earth is your main a 2013 join date and you're not familiar with that concept?

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:53 am

I will be here over the next few hours (as long as my internet holds out, has been a little iffy today) but won't be around when deadline hits so I'm willing to move my vote if necessary but we'd need to be a little quick about it.

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:56 am

How can you be altslipping not two minutes after posting on the right account, ffs. Next time, please just don't bother with the alt.

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:03 am

Talking about "[REDACTED]" is talking about ongoing games. Please stop that. [/PSA]

ChannelDelibird · Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:48 am

That went about as well as expected.

ChannelDelibird · Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:41 am

I've had a busy couple of days for which I apologise. Catching up when I wake up tomorrow.

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:02 am

Hey guys, I know I'm super behind. Sorry my motivation here is so low. My home internet has been dead for the last 13 hours or so but this

will

be my first priority when it comes back on.

If anyone has any questions for me right now that I can answer without reading the last few pages, shout. I can leech a bit more off this shop's internet before I have to go recharge

ChannelDelibird · Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:04 am

I mean, I'm well aware that my lynch is likely at any rate, and I might do the same in your position, but the inevitability of its wrongness plus my own lack of really strong scumreads from earlier to push before I die is just super depressing.