NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Shinobi]

VOTE: SilverWolf

You guys have no idea how happy I am to be town this game.

[Shinobi]

Also FOS Shinobi for claiming town in his first post.

I'm town.
Nyah nyah.

[Shinobi]

sala: VI
SW: lleaning scum

shinobi is town and text is null-town

Why to any of these reads?

[Shinobi]

I've got an early townlean on ika.

VOTE: ika

Takes one to know one.

Ohi wake

Why are you voting him?

[Shinobi]

Haha, hey Lapsa.
Please be town. c:

[Shinobi]

._.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE: Nanite
VOTE: Ozgin another hat

FOS Lapsa. Post 36 may be the longest one I've ever seen him make.

Is that Lapsa FOS really grounds for a scumread? I don't see what's so scummy about it.

[Shinobi]

Is that Lapsa FOS really grounds for a scumread? I don't see what's so scummy about it.

Even after he showed us where he

plagiarized

adapted it from?

Certainly not enough for a full-blown scum read, but I thought it was out of character enough to be suspicious.

How is it out of character, exactly?

[Shinobi]

As I said, it was the longest post I've ever seen him make. Why are you defending him so adamantly?

Because I don't think your scumread makes sense.
Besides, defending him and inquiring as to why you're scumreading him aren't necessarily the same thing.
Do you think my line of thinking is out of the ordinary?

[Shinobi]

ok gray is also scum

Why?

[Shinobi]

As I said, it was the longest post I've ever seen him make. Why are you defending him so adamantly?

Because I don't think your scumread makes sense.
Besides, defending him and inquiring as to why you're scumreading him aren't necessarily the same thing.
Do you think my line of thinking is out of the ordinary?

I guess I just don't get why you are continuing to press this point. In my experience with Lapsa, it's unusual for him to make long posts with full sentences and punctuation. I thought it was worth noting with an FOS. I am generally suspicious of things that are out of the ordinary. Why is this so difficult to understand?

I suppose.
I felt like what you were saying seemed like it was much stronger than how you actually felt, especially since I didn't read too much into Lapsa's early posts. Meh. I don't think this is a good point of discussion anymore.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: redff
My vote is serious now.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: redff
My vote is serious now.

topkek

why

His entry seems somewhat aimless, like he's trying to do something without actually doing something.
What's so funny?

[Shinobi]

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

[Shinobi]

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

You for starting the train for no reason.

Except this isn't true. I gave you a reason.

[Shinobi]

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

You for starting the train for no reason.

Except this isn't true. I gave you a reason.

You started the train for a profusely dumb reason, his unvote, when no reasonable person would keep up a vote after their main reason for voting was dispelled.

Again: who else do I vote and for what reason?
Saying me because you don't agree with my assessment of his early posts isn't going to help anyone.

more like as many problems with it, as I still feel like the lynchee was chosen somewhat arbitrarily

I agree, which is why Wolfie would be a better lynchee since they were chosen unarbitrarily

Why isn't this arbitrary?

This is a good question, actually.

[Shinobi]

Anna that still seems somewhat arbitrary. Do you know what Lapsa's mindset is like or are you just rolling with the "confscum" angle?

[Shinobi]

Anna that still seems somewhat arbitrary. Do you know what Lapsa's mindset is like or are you just rolling with the "confscum" angle?

After Lapsa's post, I re read Wolfie ISO and they scream scum

How, exactly?

[Shinobi]

She didn't claim doctor, and even if she did, why would that be scummy?
How is her vote wishy-washy?
Where did she avoid questions?
She hasn't said anything about Quaroath yet.

Is this why you're voting her?

[Shinobi]

I assumed you were talking about SilverWolf lol.
Okay. Nevermind.

[Shinobi]

I'm skimming pages pretty quickly but everything looks like trash so far.

Well so do you but we make do.

[Shinobi]

@TSO: Do go on.

[Shinobi]

I don't know anyone here, so I can't really make any solid reads.

Seriously? You have

no

thoughts on anything at all?

[Shinobi]

Salamence is really pushing for a random lynch, and not giving any solid reason for the lynch other than "it helps town".

And?

[Shinobi]

I said might be. I didn't vote for you for a reason. There isn't anything solid against you, but you look slightly suspicious. Not as suspicious as nosferatus (however it's spelled).

Why is Nos suspicious to you?

[Shinobi]

Salamence is really pushing for a random lynch, and not giving any solid reason for the lynch other than "it helps town".

And?

that's kind a vibe I got from #27

UNVOTE:

Yeah but I'm not sure that's scummy for Sala.
I've played with scum!Salamence before and I'm hesitant to say his play was similar to that experience.

[Shinobi]

Hold up, what's the vc?

[Shinobi]

Nah nevermind red wasn't lynched yet. This is good then.

I'm up for a red flip.
VOTE: red

Why?

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:
No lynch yet, I'm not done with this dayphase despite Sala's desire to murder indiscriminately. Red should claim but I want nothing to do with quickhammers.
(Sorry if this bugs the people that want to finish day 1 as quickly as possible but there's still a bunch of people I want to talk to/about possibly.)

Because Nos is bussing him, and that looks like scum attempt. My vote is also in accordance with Silver's reasons, and the idea that we need to flip a little instead of sit around and chat nothing forever.

Scum attempt?
Do you have anything else to say about anyone?
What's so scummy about Nos?

[Shinobi]

wake is follwoing his scum meta.

Elaborate on this for me a bit more pls?

[Shinobi]

On that note, Lapsa is looking scummy as fuck.

Elaborate?

[Shinobi]

I'm pretty sure we weren't at L-1?

Respond pls:

Because Nos is bussing him, and that looks like scum attempt. My vote is also in accordance with Silver's reasons, and the idea that we need to flip a little instead of sit around and chat nothing forever.

Scum attempt?
Do you have anything else to say about anyone?
What's so scummy about Nos?

[Shinobi]

Put barbecue in the food queue please.

[Shinobi]

(BBQ ribs if you need specifics.)
I'll be back later tonight.

[Shinobi]

Lame replace.

[Shinobi]

The replace probably points to town!SilverWolf.

[Shinobi]

The replace probably points to town!SilverWolf.

she has done it as scum in the past but *shrugs*

i should get me town bloc going soon

I've never seen it happen. Show me?

[Shinobi]

I've never seen it happen. Show me?

link

I don't see the bit where she replaced out of that game though.

[Shinobi]

Nevermind, I see it.
Ignore meeeeeee.

[Shinobi]

I'm aware, but it's enough to consider the replace inconclusive.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: greyfoxx

There is zero reason for that early claim, beyond hurting town. The red vote was atrocious. Posts are three naked votes, an unneeded claim, and a "So what".

He's actively NOT ENGAGING, and just slinging votes.

Greyfox, are you going to engage at this point, or keep being meh?

Yeah I didn't really like this scumread.
Claiming vt doesn't mean he's claiming scum.
Lots of surface-level stuff that doesn't really relate to his alignment tbh.

[Shinobi]

In fact, make Shinobi town for now, he did some good stuff early.

I'm godfather.

[Shinobi]

Tso, I didn't really find your scumread on Lapsa particularly convincing considering almost everything he's done so far is completely within his range as town.
/shrug

Talk to me about Quaroath.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi, can you please respond to my posts?

I want feedback, please, and I don't like feeling as if I talking to a wall.

Hang on, I kind of glossed over the most recent page.

[Shinobi]

Which one am I responding to, exactly?
Sorry if I missed it, I just got back from work and I'm tired lol.

[Shinobi]

Well.
I'm looking at your posts and I don't see much I should be responding to or talking about.
I actually disliked your reads list because it seemed somewhat aimed towards making you look clueless, the only player you came to some sort of conclusion about was me and even that was somewhat wishy-washy.

Do you really think that sort of stuff is productive?

[Shinobi]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

[Shinobi]

I've always thought that sheeping was usually scum-indicative

Uhhhh since when, actually?

[Shinobi]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

what your read on quarth? i wanna talk

I think he's kinda scummy.
I thought his scumread on Gray was kinda bosh. I commented on it here

What are you thinking?

[Shinobi]

Alrighty, works for me, let's do it:

1) Lapsa is a unique player in the sense that he doesn't post walls and thoughts like a regular scumhunter. A lot of the time, he'll attach videos and pictures to posts and he'll say stuff that can be somewhat off-the-wall from what you're used to. I just got finished playing two scumgames against him and I've seen him townplay first hand, so nothing out of the ordinary there yet. (Though I don't begrudge him for going after SW the way he has, considering it's a read based on prior experience and can apply to this game.)

2) /shrug, I honestly don't know. My experience with IML and quickhammers is actually somewhat limited compared to my experience with plurality lynch. I've never even played with ika before.

3) I agree that SW is a dangerous player and her style of writing has fooled me in the past, specifically in that large NY game we played together. I'm reserving judgement for now.

4) Uhhhhh...Good luck with that. I'm notoriously difficult to read even when I play as townily as possible. I can be amazingly anti-town as town sometimes but that's really the only thing I can think of.

5) I'm all for using our time wisely and I'd rather not lynch immediately.

6) Quoaroth or w/e his name is.

7) I understood this after the fact.

8) I don't necessarily agree. How do you intend to make lynches happen without sheeping? Like...It could be, but I don't think accusing someone of sheeping is a necessarily valid tell on its own.

Pedit: Well, I want to talk about Qua. Do you have an opinion on him?

[Shinobi]

shinobi imm board.

what you think of his last post that i commented on?

What did you mean by reckless for scum, exactly?

[Shinobi]

4) Not really. If anything I'm far more likely to stick my neck out for townreads as town but my play is relatively similar regardless of my alignment.

6) Anna might be a good pick as well, but that's mostly grounded in her insistence on using buzzwords to vote people.

7) I understood your reasoning behind it. I don't agree with making people town because they're pushing other people, but I don't even do that in singleball. I don't really think much about that kind of stuff until I have flips in front of me because I find that it makes things way too complicated way too fast. That, and I'm

generally

not one for associative reads anyway.

[Shinobi]

i would say most if not all have already been asnwered by my iso.

Just answer the questions.

[Shinobi]

i would say most if not all have already been asnwered by my iso.

Just answer the questions.

Interesting movement by Shinobi to ika regarding all this.

Somewhat convincing. Somewhat.

Maybe,

maybe

slightly contrived and ever-so-gently forced....

Much reachy.

[Shinobi]

I'm running out of options - can't make it more obvious that I don't really scumread Wolfie.
already mentioned - #27 is where fun originates

UNVOTE:

Anna's response seemed most town, TSO sounds scum. Wake seems just lazy and Shinobi is town.
wat wat on Nosfer

@ika did you notice that Nanite got replaced by red?

I think it's plausible that TSO could be scum.
He's currently on my watchlist as well.

[Shinobi]

Good to have you back, Wolf.

VOTE: TSO
I can back this.

[Shinobi]

I have no idea what Shinobi is doing, I don't think Shinobi knows what Shinobi is doing.

Rofl.

[Shinobi]

Yeh I mostly voted you because I thought your read on Lapsa was kinda meh but that reaction seems fine.
UNVOTE:

Pedit: Sure, why not.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi; you might think that my case on Lapsa is weak, which is somewhat true, but #377 is the shittiest attempt at a rebuttal ever. He literally cannot justify his thought processes multiple times. Even if he's just atrociously bad, his thoughts should still be clear in his head and explainable. That he can't do it speaks extremely poorly towards his alignment.

No it doesn't.
Lapsa always talks in non sequiturs.

[Shinobi]

I don't really disagree with TSO's assessment of gray's play.
Gray is being amazingly bad and I've played with him before as well, in his first newbie game no less.

[Shinobi]

I don't really disagree with TSO's assessment of gray's play.
Gray is being amazingly bad and I've played with him before as well, in his first newbie game no less.

You know what? Let's vote gray.
VOTE: grayfoxxxx

[Shinobi]

Lapsa vote gray with me.

[Shinobi]

Hey frog - you scum?

[Shinobi]

Defraction mafia.

[Shinobi]

Idk if I should join the gray train.

Do you have a good reason not to?
If you don't want to, where else would we vote?

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Annadog40

Jeez how many scum are in this game how is no one voting her right now?

Just ISO her. She has zero actual contribution and her posts consist almost entirely of asking questions that don't matter and covering her ass on the "Wolfie" fiasco. Clearly she's reading because she has responded to allegations against HER but can't be bothered to post anything of substance about the game.

She was on the Nos wagon which makes me think he's town now but we'll see how he plays going forward.

Already noted her.
/shrug
I'm voting gray though.

[Shinobi]

Could someone summarize the case against Grayfox? I just feel like that would be the easiest lynch for scum to push at the moment.

Because he's playing terribly and he isn't terrible.
iirc he's actually pretty proactive and valuable as town.

[Shinobi]

Just ISO her. She has zero actual contribution and her posts consist almost entirely of asking questions that don't matter and covering her ass on the "Wolfie" fiasco. Clearly she's reading because she has responded to allegations against HER but can't be bothered to post anything of substance about the game.

The real question is, is this scummy?

Yes.

[Shinobi]

Anna your badness at quoting has dripped over and made me bad.
How dare you.

[Shinobi]

Always remember that I fixed that quote when you send your scummy nomination

<3

[Shinobi]

Honestly I'm perfectly content piling votes onto grayfoxxx until he stops being awful.
I know he's a smart guy and he's capable of picking fights with other players and figuring things out.
He is doing neither of those things.

[Shinobi]

ika-because I've had time to cool off and am in a calmer mood and Wake's paranoia doesn't bother me right now

Shinobi-do you think he will respond the votes/wagon if we vote him up and start playing better? I haven't gotten any indication from him that he even gives a shit.

I don't know, but if he doesn't care then there's literally no downside in murdering his face.

[Shinobi]

31 pages guys? Really?

Have you ever played in a Large Normal before?

He's been harping on quicklynching for a while now.
/shrug

[Shinobi]

I need to read gray's recent posts but I'm in no mood to do it now.
Maybe tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

Unvoting until I catch up, but I'm playing Fallout 3 at the same time so that could take a while.

[Shinobi]

And what is the gray wagon even, like where was the beginning of it?

Someone brought up his meta, I

think

it was TSO but I'm not 100%.
I told people to vote him.
People voted him.

Haven't parsed his more recent posts yet.

[Shinobi]

Good. Should have lynched red 20 pages ago and town would have more information than it has now, dumbfuck

You look worse than Silver does from this whole back-and-forth, fyi.

[Shinobi]

Then youre fucking stupid too

Why do you even bother signing up if you're just going to act like a dick?

[Shinobi]

You spend 30+ pages and want to result to "policy"?

Ok. 10/10, youre definatley helping town.

Theoretically you could say the same about the guy that's complaining about the game having too many pages to read and ends up cussing people out over very little.
Imo, it's a matter of perspective.

As for your scumread, /shrug. I don't think it's particularly strong.
She called you a bad lynch because you're asking to be lynched.
Then she advocated a policy lynch.
Since when has a plynch stood for a solid scumread?

[Shinobi]

You spend 30+ pages and want to result to "policy"?

Ok. 10/10,

youre definatley helping town

.

This is really rich coming from you.

Stop it.

[Shinobi]

I tried to help town. I provided reasons for doing it

Then you guys want to spam the fucking thread.

But whatever, can you prematurely claim scum again?

I'm aware of what you're doing but it's annoying people, and talking about the thread being too big leads to more spam and doesn't help.
Just face facts that the speedlynch you want isn't going to happen and move on.

[Shinobi]

I'm going to retire early for the night.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

Shinobi, who should I vote for?

Am beginning to think Ozgin.
(This is the exact post that I saw and decided to check in by responding to. Catching up now.)

[Shinobi]

Okay, seriously, why is there a wake wagon going? Is it because of the neighborhood thing?
Because I really didn't read into it so much and didn't think it was a really strong case.
/shrug

I'm down with an Ozgin wagon: I can easily see the parallels between his play in 180 and his play here.
VOTE: Ozgin

[Shinobi]

My current scumlist is probably something along the lines of:
Ozgin, Gray, maybe Anna

I'm wait-and-see on TSO. I've liked a bunch of his more recent posts but his Lapsa push spooked me a bit.

Boonskiies might also plausibly be a good day 1 lynch. I don't really think anything of him as of right now since he's so inactive and lurky but we lose nothing by killing him at this rate.

I'm at a loss as to who else I should look into outside those 5. I'm aware that, for sheer balance reasons, it's likely that at least

one

active player is scum but I'm at a loss as to who I should look into in that regard.
/shrug

[Shinobi]

Oh, also Frogger.
I felt that his entrance was incredibly subdued compared to what I've seen from his recent townwork in Refraction.

He might be one of the more active/experienced players I'd have to look into. I'll throw his name out there as well.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi, what's your take on TSO, and his flip flopping on my meta?

Show me where this happened, exactly?
Honestly I really hate rereading stuff sometimes so pinpointing stuff for me will make my job way easier, pls n ty.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi, what's your take on TSO, and his flip flopping on my meta?

Show me where this happened, exactly?
Honestly I really hate rereading stuff sometimes so pinpointing stuff for me will make my job way easier, pls n ty.

Check post....1101 I think?

I don't really understand how he flipflopped. Elaborate for me?
Just kinda seems like he called you out for being inactive, you became more active, and then he just kind of expected that you would regardless of your alignment.

I don't see much of an issue with that tbh.

[Shinobi]

I do know how to play the game, and I am not unfamiliar with how Scum can play.

It is odd, in my humble opinion, how during my pressing of TSO for answers regarding his behavior, Silverwolf comes in, does not ask me why I suspect him, but votes with TSO onto Grayfoxxxx, while seemingly 'not understanding' what it is I am seeing in TSO's behavior, trying to manipulate me with flattery and emotions onto a potentially convenient target. Knowing I will not be dissuaded, and not willing to be manipulated by TSO into voting for Grayfoxx in spite of what Grayfoxxxx was doing, I see TSO logging off for bed, Silverwolf asking me questions but not really asking me why I suspect TSO, Shinobi coming in about an Ozgin wagon, and Silverwolf nearly immediately saying that she, too, would love an Ozgin wagon.

Silverwolf does not answer my 1127. Shinobi shrugs off the idea of a Wake wagon, and votes Ozgin. Then Silverwolf immediately votes for Ozgin, and then does Grayfoxxxx. Nosferatu ignores my suggestion to engage, seemingly ignores that have happened, and proceeds to naked-vote Ozgin. Feels like Shinobi, like Silverwolf, is playing dumb about TSO's manipulative behavior, if 1137 is any indication.

I don't really understand what you're saying about me here.

[Shinobi]

Oh wow.
Hold on.

I must have misread something. Give me a minute.

[Shinobi]

Alright gray, I looked into TSO's flipflop and I saw what you were talking about.
Doesn't look too spectacular to me: very unnatural read progression there.

TSO goes back onto my list but it's not enough to make me move off of Ozgin.

[Shinobi]

Alright gray, I looked into TSO's flipflop and I saw what you were talking about.
Doesn't look too spectacular to me: very unnatural read progression there.

TSO goes back onto my list but it's not enough to make me move off of Ozgin.

And how he tried to manipulate me into voting for Grayfoxxxx through flattery and emotions?

Generally I don't find this type of pushing to be alignment indicative, especially for someone like TSO.

[Shinobi]

We se m to have a lot of support for my Ozgin wagon that I wanted.

Your posts hurt my soul.
Really, they do.

[Shinobi]

I feel pretty good about Silver's list tbh.
Like,

really

good.

[Shinobi]

All of my scumreads are trying to kill each other.
...

[Shinobi]

Texcat is still town.
She's always going to lurk whether you like it or not.

[Shinobi]

Oh boy, threads unlocked and I have adopted a wagon. Weeee.

More to come, ready your bodies.

More than twelve hours to go with 6 days left.
Come on.

[Shinobi]

Oh boy, threads unlocked and I have adopted a wagon. Weeee.

More to come, ready your bodies.

More than twelve hours ago with 6 days left.
Come on.

Ebwop lol.

[Shinobi]

@Annadog why were you so against having your neighborhood revealed?

BTW I'm in a neighborhood with Shinobi and Boonskiies yay

Can confirm.

[Shinobi]

Yeah Ozgin's reads don't sit well with me. Need more time and game to be sure of anything though.

Why, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Yeah Ozgin's reads don't sit well with me. Need more time and game to be sure of anything though.

Why, exactly?

A few are just not what I expected, which possibly means purposeful dodging of accusing people. You know, that thing scum do.

Explain?

[Shinobi]

Mahonster answer my question pls.

[Shinobi]

@Mahonster - I have no neighborhood that I am in, so you can put me down as hoodless. Just like how I like my sweaters. B)

[Shinobi]

TSO vote on me is OMGUS.
Says I'm townie

I sheep wolf, and vote TSO

TSO votes me.

Any other reasons to vote me aside from pressure?
Look at my wagon and you will find a scum.
More tonight.

Oz also says I'm only sheeping when I vote...

what ever that means.

Step 1) Read the bolded.
Step 2) Vote for this scum.
Step 3) ????
Step 4) Profit.

I think you're missing the point he was trying to make.

[Shinobi]

As an aside, gray is slowly but surely climbing his way into my townreads list.
Mahonster is managing to sink with almost every other post he makes.

[Shinobi]

Yeah no Ozgin. You didn't like 186 because you thought it was a bad scumread on me. I actually agree. It's one of the reasons I think Red is scum.

But you then list 186 as liking the response to his wagon which was nothing but him scumreading me that now you like when you didn't before.

Sorry Ozin, I really despise the thought of mislynching you if you are town after 185 but you look like inconsistent scum to me and I can't unvote you.

Yeah.
I think we need to get a claim out of Ozgin.
Preferably today instead of a couple of days down the line.

[Shinobi]

Ozgin, he seems all over the place with his reads, you can't go from saying town, to null, or town to scum, that seems desperation to look town, by giving false reads. The only thing that is achieving, is muddying the waters so in the case of, if you are lynched, we can't draw associations to anybody, and avenues to go down. If you are town, you'd be more consistent with your reads regardless of "I made those reads in the order they were." that you stated in post #1206

Can you rephrase this and elaborate on it a bit?

[Shinobi]

Bleh.
UNVOTE:

[Shinobi]

I'm not really a fan of the gray wagon cropping up tbh.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: anna

Let's see where this goes.

[Shinobi]

So is anyone going to talk about the ratio of how many wagons we have created today vs the number of claims?

RedFF
Nos
Greyfoxxx
Wake
Ozgin
Anna

Thats alot of wagon switching, which means town is shit (likely), scum keep fucking around (unlikely), or scum are lurking while everyone fucks around (probably)

Then who's mafia?

[Shinobi]

So is anyone going to talk about the ratio of how many wagons we have created today vs the number of claims?

RedFF
Nos
Greyfoxxx
Wake
Ozgin
Anna

Thats alot of wagon switching, which means town is shit (likely), scum keep fucking around (unlikely), or scum are lurking while everyone fucks around (probably)

Then who's mafia?

The people who keep moving are probably town.

The ones who either suggest it and didnt follow are mafia.

Thats without doing VCA, which I cant do without flips.

The problem is, we didnt get anyone to claim besides the wolf, which shouldnt have happened. Atleast 1-2 of those guys should have been claimed imo.

Then find the bolded and push on them?

[Shinobi]

Also, yes, there have been like two claims already.

[Shinobi]

Kop and Quaroth are both mega-lurkers.
Those wagons could be fun.

I remember asking Kop a question about why he wanted to lynch Ozgin and he wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment. He wasn't really straightforward about it either - he said Oz was either bad town or scum and left it at that.


I can't remember a single thing Q has done this game at all.

[Shinobi]

Kop and Quaroth are both mega-lurkers.
Those wagons could be fun.

I remember asking Kop a question about why he wanted to lynch Ozgin and he wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment. He wasn't really straightforward about it either - he said Oz was either bad town or scum and left it at that.

I can't remember a single thing Q has done this game at all.

You asked the question to rephrase and elaborate, I rephrased as I felt that you didn't get my point.

But I don't think I actually stated that I wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment, so I'm not sure where you got that fact from, I actually would like to see where you would or how you got that assumption, that I wanted to kill Oz.

I didn't even vote for Ozgin.

I was going to elaborate on it and then I realized that I misread what you said. Just ignore what I said in the first place because it doesn't hold water.
Moving on.
Who's your top lynch target and why?

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Salamence

Why?

VOTE: Mahonster

Actually, VOTE: quaroath

Mahonster seems scummy too, but quaroath more so.

Why?
Furthermore, didn't you agree with some on Q's reasoning earlier? What changed and why is he so scummy now?

[Shinobi]

Real quick I'm down for a Shinobi wagon.

I think he may have scumslipped in our neighborhood (which is why I directed him and Boon to the neighborhood) and I feel like all of his question-asking haven't yielded many results in the form of reads or votes.

VOTE: Shinobi

You're bad.

[Shinobi]

At any rate I've been preoccupied with the release of Binding of Isaac for the X1.
I'll coalesce some thoughts or something in a bit.

[Shinobi]

Shin's probably town. That reaction is not scum!Shinobi reaction.

When he was scum in Refraction just last month, he kept asking me to prove my case on him and why and why. And why and why!

lol Frogger might be town for thinking I'm town for this.

[Shinobi]

Fro99er you automatically declaring Shinobi town without even hearing the scumslip is weird af. Why defend him so early without hearing me out?

Anyway I might just be overly paranoid. I'll see what Boon thinks about it before I make a fool of myself and bring it here.

I am still not entirely thrilled with Shinobi's performance recently so I'll leave my vote here for now.

Well.
If it's a performance issue that you have then I'm down for discussing it with you.
What seems to be the issue, precisely?

[Shinobi]

Well.
If it's a performance issue that you have then I'm down for discussing it with you.
What seems to be the issue, precisely?

Like I said, you ask a lot of good questions but I never see follow up or anything made of them, which makes me think they're asked to make you look like you're engaging without really working anything out from them. Plus you seem to be supporting a lot of the wagons for information but again don't really make any reads or insights based on these, but are always happy to hop on the next one! This is why I am voting for you.

Theoretically you'd be correct if Anna had done anything to sway my opinion of her at all since voting her. I can't say that she has - does your opinion differ from mine? Why?
I'm also not a fan of keeping my vote idle.

As for other reads, I'm on record as agreeing with SW's list and have made several distinctions in the interim. Did you find those unsatisfactory in some way?

[Shinobi]

Here.

I posted my own list the page before.
Pedit: Yeah frogger has been moving up on my town list more recently but it's not an entirely objective read at this point. Probably something I need to sleep on. Dnu.

[Shinobi]

This gray lynch feels so dumb.

[Shinobi]

Is there even a reason anyone thinks he's scum at this point?
We're killing someone for the sake of killing someone.
It makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Shinobi]

I believe you've said so multiple times.

What made anna so town, btw? iirc someone just kind of said she was town because of something she did in the neighborhood and the wagon stalled completely.

[Shinobi]

That's driving me nuts.
I don't know what to do with information I don't have.


Alright, alternative lynches. Say we don't lynch gray or anna. Who's next on our list?
I'd say TSO is plausible but he's always a a tough sob to lynch on day 1, even if there is a half-decent case on him.

[Shinobi]

Here's the line I said from the 'hood:
"Welp, that's dealt with."

I said it in regards to the fact that he wanted to claim that we were in the neighborhood.
He thought I meant to post it in the scum QT.

[Shinobi]

Kop can you answer my question pls?

[Shinobi]

How about we don't lynch someone for funsies instead?

[Shinobi]

I'm really unhappy with the way this game is going already.

[Shinobi]

Kop can you answer my question pls?

What question?

Who's your top scumspect and why?
iirc you haven't even voted a single person because you think they're mafia.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Kop
I can back this.

[Shinobi]

I feel like I've read almost everyone as scum at one point or another you guys should all stop being scummy.

I'll try to stop claiming godfather at some point.

[Shinobi]

Gray is town.
Switch to Kop.

[Shinobi]

Kop, who's mafia?

[Shinobi]

Kop, who's mafia?

I don't know, I'd hope that you'd tell me, so I can go lynch them.

You have

no

scumreads despite the game being 50 pages?

[Shinobi]

Kop why should I read you as town?
I really have no reason to believe that you are.

[Shinobi]

Because you haven't even bothered to pressure any of the three people that you've listed as suspects.
You just have them and you've done nothing with them.

[Shinobi]

Sure, I can see a world where you have those three scumreads.
Cool. Great. There they are.

None of those lynches are going to happen.
I'd much prefer that gray isn't lynched today because the push on him reads like garbage.
Who else should it be? Saying "I don't know" isn't a good answer.

[Shinobi]

Hi Gm.
You scum?

[Shinobi]

I presume that these will all be explained in due time, yes?

[Shinobi]

Fair enough.
Btw there's no way that creede is abc.

[Shinobi]

Fair enough.
Btw there's no way that creede is abc.

You'd be surprised!

Do you feel what I feel about Creede though? The newbish facade but the hint of darkness?

Sort of. A bunch of his earlier stuff bugged me but I wound up sort of ignoring him after a while.
Maybe a person of interest that I'll revisit soonish.

[Shinobi]

Yeah silver is probably town for the claim alone.

[Shinobi]

Would have rather you waited until she answered, then you make your feelings known clearly.

This is ridiculous. So you are putting restrictions on what I can talk about? I saw activity of yours that I deemed scummy looking, and I called it out. We're 3 days from deadline and you want me to wait who knows how long for a low activity player to come in and answer your questions? Ok...

It was like Spiffeh saying I needed to hold off on having an opinion on Shinobi until he told us how Shinobi scum slipped (which he still hasn't).

I already told you guys what happened in the neighborhood.

[Shinobi]

[Shinobi]

Aero just modkill everyone.

[Shinobi]

Meh, maybe TSO is right and gray is just mafia.

[Shinobi]

In other news, wtf is this game even? RL sucks rn and I can't even escape into this because it sucks tooooooo

It's you.
You are the suck.

[Shinobi]

Meh, maybe TSO is right and gray is just mafia.

Shinobi vote gray with me.

I'm intending to but I'll withhold until he delivers the content he promised later tonight.
I'll be around until then.

[Shinobi]

Do we just blame everyone else for being wrong if/when we lynch town?
Doesn't seem like a wise decision but okay.

[Shinobi]

Did someone say L-1?

VOTE: GF

Boon.
Seriously.
Why?

[Shinobi]

Welp, gray's dead, rather unsurprisingly.
Still want to lynch Kop's face off. Nothing has changed in that regard.
/shrug

[Shinobi]

Aaaand there goes my whole neighborhood.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Kop
Nothing has changed in regards to this vote.

TSO is also heavily implicated by Wake's death.
I'm kind of annoyed that Gray gave up because that seemed somewhat salvageable but I digress.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

Waste of a claim imo, but okay.

[Shinobi]

Please let TSO post before we lynch him.

[Shinobi]

I'm still hoodless T_T

Technically so am I now.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

[Shinobi]

Both Spiffeh and Boon decided that the scumslip didn't exist last night. Neither of them suspected me.
/shrug

We were all bouncing ideas off each other before Boon/Spiff died. All three of us decided that we wanted to lynch Kop/Mahonster today.

Pedit: The South Corridor.

[Shinobi]

What exactly are you expecting to get out of the TSO hood?

[Shinobi]

You should claim.

[Shinobi]

The claim is meaningless.
Who is scum and why?

[Shinobi]

So?
Pedit: Directed at TSO.

Though non-normal roles can exist.
Ultimately the claim is meaningless and the safe play is just lynching him anyway. We lose nothing either way.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi, you're down 4 town. You will lose at least 2 town tonight, if you're lucky a stray shot hits a Mafia. You really can't afford to lynch a Survivor.

Yes I can.

[Shinobi]

TSO tell me who's scum.
Scumhunt.
Do something.

Telling me what you would/wouldn't do as scum is completely useless and isn't going to make me change my mind.

Pedit: Yes I can times infinity.

[Shinobi]

That day one lynch was mine. Yeah, it was wrong, but I fucking pushed it. When I made the case literally no-one refuted it. Sometimes you get it wrong - even red said it in the PT.

Yeah, and I get that, but harping on it is getting us nowhere.
Tell me who is scum.

[Shinobi]

What I need to do is find convincing reasons for the people above to be town. When the list gets lower scum will get trapped in it.

No. You don't.
You need convincing reasons for people to be scum.
Finding town isn't going to cut it. Anyone can do that.

[Shinobi]

No, finding Town and using PoE to get the Scum is perfectly acceptable.

But TSO isn't Survivor because that's not allowable.

In some/most circumstances, yes.
But not when you've been guiltied. PoE is not enough on its own.

[Shinobi]

I'm not in the NRG but I've modded my fair share of Normals and keep up with the guidelines even though I'm not going to mod any more because of the hydra thing.

That said, now I'm debating a lynch or leash.

The hydra thing?

[Shinobi]

The hydra thing?

The 'hydrae aren't Normal' thing.

I don't understand how that would keep you from modding.

[Shinobi]

I love Lapsa and Tex. Shinobi rocks too.!Go refraction mafia

I'm drunk

[Shinobi]

Other thoughts - I think we'd be better served with SW visiting Shinobi's hood.

He scumslips in the hood, and during the night his hood mates decide it wasn't a slip?

hmmm.....

I don't like this.
The only person in the hood whose opinion is a mystery to everyone still alive was Boon. Spiffeh clearly changed his mind before the thread closed, so why are you trying to attribute both of their deaths to me?

[Shinobi]

I'm intentionally withholding how I'm going to deal with TSO for now.
I'm fine with letting that situation develop for a bit.

[Shinobi]

Other thoughts - I think we'd be better served with SW visiting Shinobi's hood.

He scumslips in the hood, and during the night his hood mates decide it wasn't a slip?

hmmm.....

I don't like this.
The only person in the hood whose opinion is a mystery to everyone still alive was Boon. Spiffeh clearly changed his mind before the thread closed, so why are you trying to attribute both of their deaths to me?

Oh i noticed, but you specifically call out that THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND AT NIGHT.

Which as you just noted isn't true.

It doesn't sit right with me.

This doesn't make any sense.

[Shinobi]

I say that they decided that it wasn't a scumslip at night.
Spiffeh said he read me as town during day 1 after he brought it up anyway.

This is scummy to you.

???

How does that work, exactly?

[Shinobi]

I don't really think that answer sates me tbh.
I'll sleep on it.

[Shinobi]

So, who are we vigging tonight? Because Mahonster has slowly but surely began to redeem himself.

How exactly?
Aside from not wanting to lynch you.

[Shinobi]

TSO, I think your neighborhood might be all scum rn.

Why?

[Shinobi]

I'm not going to go into that.

Why not?

[Shinobi]

I don't understand.
What could possibly be anti-town about explaining your reads?

[Shinobi]

Oh btw, I don't agree with a texcat kill.
I'm still of the mind to lynch TSO's face off because I can already tell "leashing" him, even if he actually is a serial killer, is going to be a giant pain to actually accomplish.

[Shinobi]

I don't actually have any read on red.
Should probably get one now.

[Shinobi]

This redFF wagon doesn't really make sense to me.
Where's the case on him, exactly?

[Shinobi]

I even went through his whole filter.
Everything looked fine. I saw no conflict of reads, no inconsistencies, and a bunch of posts with purpose to them.
Someone tell me what I'm supposed to be seeing here?

[Shinobi]

you people are so talkative

I'm being amazingly active by my own standards.
I think I've posted and done things almost every single day. This whole "cut down on number of games at once" thing I'm trying is working wonders for the amount of effort I put into games.

This redFF wagon doesn't really make sense to me.
Where's the case on him, exactly?

there isn't one, people are sheeping SW because she's town, if TSO flips scum instead of sk i expect a buddy or 2 of his is on my wagon
check the post right above yours for the deets

I had reasons to both like and dislike that post.
Who is scum, exactly?

[Shinobi]

I had reasons to both like and dislike that post.
Who is scum, exactly?

ive kind of been caught up on pushing tso so i haven't been thinking about this too much but mahonster annadog and kop are my strong scumreads rn

who do you think is scum shinobi?

At one point or another today, I've listed:
Kop.
Mahonster.
I could easily see a world where anna is scum as well, so no argument there.

I'm a fan of your list, tbh.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: TSO
Can do.

[Shinobi]

You apparently missed the entire point of the "just trust me part". It's not supposed to be discussed because hey guess what that's anti-town.

No, that's not how this game works. You don't get to not explain your reads and call people out for asking you why by saying "that's anti-town."

VOTE: goodmorning

Why?

i'm not diverting town from hunting scum, i'm trying to lynch caught scum/sk!

Just pointing out the caught sk/scum all day doesn't help catch other scum.

This reads like an excuse to vote red tbh.

[Shinobi]

If by catching scum, you mean lynching the claimed serial killer over himself, then yes.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi/Red/Texcat for scumteam?

Christ.

[Shinobi]

@Texcat-Are you going to address your blatant contradiction in 2252 or do anything at all today except call for TSO to be lynched and the day to end?

@Shinobi-Are you going to address 2253?

What exactly am I addressing?

[Shinobi]

I never explained my read on texcat, so don't worry about it.
iirc, tex is always kind of a lurker but her one redeeming feature is how transparent/direct she is as town. I haven't seen her being indecisive or directionless as she is as mafia, so I can't really justify a shot on her aside from the fact that "she's lurking," which really isn't a tell for her either way.

Plus, I don't really think the contradiction that you've listed for texcat is really that much of a contradiction. TSO is, after all, confirmed scum, so naturally the game changes a bit in regards to what needs to be discussed.

As for red, explain why he's scummy? I don't understand what you're looking for here, exactly.

[Shinobi]

If by "defensive," you mean "immediately explained what happened," then sure.

[Shinobi]

@Shinobi why is Kop scum to you?

Because he's useless and inactive.

[Shinobi]

That could be said for more than one person.

Sure, who else?

[Shinobi]

Boon was lurking in D1 along with texts, and ika isn't really doing much either. Heck, I'm not even doing that much.

Boon has examples of being lurky as town + he was actually kinda towny in my neighborhood. That, and, you know, he died and flipped town.
A bunch of other people called ika town early on and I'm inclined to agree - it's enough to spare him over genuinely useless people like Kop.
I explained my read on tex already.

You aren't really that useless, either.

[Shinobi]

check SW

No lol.

So why is Kop useless?

Seriously?
He has no reads rofl.

[Shinobi]

Just cause he hasn't put it in a pretty list for ease of access doesn't mean he doesn't have any.

Yes and no.
The reality of it is that he did very little on day 1, the most pivotal thing being a vote on Boon that was never followed up on. He came up with it under pressure and then, as soon as people left him alone, he stopped caring about his lynch.
Two of his scumreads died and flipped town and he hasn't reanalyzed anything after the fact. At best, you can argue he has a scumread on anna but, realistically, what is he doing to move towards that lynch/develop his perception of the game?

Why do you specifically think Kop is useless?

Because he has no reads.

At best, he has maybe one, which isn't enough at this stage.

[Shinobi]

This is the part of mafia that always annoys me: when people start defending someone who doesn't play/doesn't care.