Open 609: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Performer]

Shiro forgot her color

That means Shiro is scum.

Most defenetly does


Also welcome performer.

Thanks for the warm welcome! Got a ton to catch up on. Fortunately it's only 30 pages in, instead of 100+ pages in.

[Performer]

Hey Bellaphant!

Also, hey Mario, and PantherPunt LOL. It's a small world after all. I have my eye on you, PantherPunt.

[Performer]

You an alt, Performer? (References to 100 page games)

Post 189 - wow. I didn't realize I replaced a 4-man hydra account.

@Bella: I'm not an alt account, it's just me.

@Pant: Never heard of Mafia Universe or Plotti Plot until now. I sent you a pm earlier this month LOL, regarding that awesome game.

I've been reading the pages from the start, and haven't finished yet. After that, I'll try doing an ISO on everyone for a general reads list. I think I saw deadline is in a couple days so I'll try to help as fast as I can.

Note: for those of you who've been reading me as town, you're correct. Someone mentioned not hammering until later, I fully agree as I have yet to fully catch up.

[Performer]

pedit for my post 754 - for those of you who've been reading Flow (now me) as town, you're correct

[Performer]

722 – Luna, I do apologize that I didn’t reply to you! I first began reading from page 30 and finally caught up with a general read-through from pages 1 to 29, then found your welcome. Thanks!

------

760 - Pant, I’m speaking about the game you played versus pisskop

Very interesting that you mentioned my playstyle, something that I generally try to change in every new game.
Also very intriguing you mention emulating. I didn’t expect a

certain someone

to be in this game. I want to emulate his playstyle though I don’t think I can come up to that level yet, maybe someday. I’ll try my best regardless.

Though I can’t speak for ongoing games, I decided pre-entry to this one, that I’ll use a straightforward, simple playstyle.

------

763 – I have night classes M-R every week, I get off at 945pm PST. Once I got home, I did ISO and draft writeup, in preparation to post the final writeup here. Then my family argued over mindlessly dumb things, which took up a chunk of time. But here I am! So no worries about that.

[Performer]

Can we get a reads list please, from the following:

Alch, Bella, ika

Can I get an updated reads list from the following:

Max, Silv, Pant

Thanks!
-------

Just finished an ISO, here’s what I have.

Town:

PantherPunt

– does plenty of reasonable scumhunting, reads list at 344

Silverjaws/Lizard_Buttock

– read Liz as more of a null but Silv really galvanized the ship hull for me, in terms of coming across pro-town at post 521. His 523 is his logical-looking reads list though I disagree with some of it, based on what I saw in ISO of players

MaxwellPuckett

– does reasonable scumhunting

Null:

Alchemist21

Vedith

– leaned town for him based on his ISO posts. Saw he voted Lizard. After that vote, on 556 he calls out Silv as scum as scum. Maybe a scumhunt move at Silv, to get a reaction test?

Shiro/Varian

Diego1487/TellTaleHeart

Luna Fox/JoramvanVugt

– reads list at 389

Suspicious:

Bellaphant

– Lacking enough scumhunting

Firebringer

– reads list at 367. Lacking enough scumhunting though

Ika

– Lacking enough scumhunting

MarioManiac4/Sparrowbird

– really don’t like his 304 that seemed to appear from thin air, to vote Bell. I’m mixed about his 361, as he appeared to put in reads on Pant, Luna, Alch; then he lightheartedly adds an L-1, but the way he said it was disturbing, reckless - I don’t feel from that post, like he was careful enough. Reads list at 503. 605 sounds like a frustrated town and/or frustrated new player – not saying I like the tone there one bit though. Posts from his replacement, Mario, so far – aren’t reasonable enough for me to remove my FoS. My first impression of his 701 is scummy behavior


I would have to vote Mario.

VOTE: Mario

[Performer]

Luna Fox/JoramvanVugt

– reads list at 389

There was an update to my reads list on 440
Also I've always mentioned any change in reads.

Ah, thanks - my mistake, didn't read the updated reads list closely enough.

[Performer]

Performer to my understanding Sparrow and Mario are the same person. Alt to main.

Btw you can join my town reads. I forgot who you replaced and I am on phone so cba to search..... wait no remembered A flow. But yea you town.

Question though I am pretty sure I haven't given a realist but you didn't ask me for one while you asked the others that haven't given ones. Why?

Btw I think ika hunts scum via making enough townreads to PoE the scum. Which is why he lacks scumhunting

.

Oh I didn't know that about Mario.

I asked them for reads list as I'm most concerned about them. But if you have a reads list for me, that's great too. I noticed your recent analysis regarding Silver. Looks pro-town to me.

Hey Bellaphant!

Also, hey Mario, and PantherPunt LOL. It's a small world after all. I have my eye on you, PantherPunt.

What makes you want to keep your eye on me?
I'm mad at myself that I'm hung up on you. You want me to think you're someone and I don't think you really are who you want me to think you are.
You nominated me for some kind of award, I saw? Thanks, I guess.

I'm really sorry but I can't reveal that reason.

And no problem!

Town:
Fire
Shiro
Panther
Luna
Vedith
Max
Diego

Scum:
Bella
Sparrow
Lizard

Null:
Ika
Performer

I usually check the playerlists when making lists. Where are silver and TTH? We know your reads on them but its nice to have organized lists, no?

Anyways, welcome to the game, both Diego and Performer. I'll post a readslist in just a bit when I'm not on mobile but for now: I'm still learning town on silver but I'd like to see him continue to post meaningfully if that read will stay. I like performers entrance (replacement of Flow, right?)

Alch's continued defense of TTH doesn't make sense to me at all, still, and its weak to boot.

Panther has come back around to town for me, I think I misread his Luna/Sparrow interactions, especially considering his behaviour now.

Also I like this vote better rn, plus it has support
VOTE: Mario

I replaced Flow, yes.

As for Pant, I must add that his interactions can lead toward extreme tunneling. Based on 1 of his games, this game, and even by his admission of "death tunnel," it looks like it's his consistent playstyle against players he thinks are scummy.

Silver is doing exactly what he set out to do slowly but surely >.>

What...do you mean by this?

[Performer]

Its likely one of these wagons is scum, if not both.
We should lynch the other if one flips town.

Vote: Firebringer

lol

But actually yeah, this is pretty shallow thinking from Firebringer that I don't like. While I've also seen the behaviour from town, I understand the vote.

Vote: Firebringer

Reasonable reaction.

double lol

I love this game. Stay gold, Fire

Can we get a reads list please, from the following:

Alch, Bella, ika

Can I get an updated reads list from the following:

Max, Silv, Pant

Thanks!
-------

Just finished an ISO, here’s what I have.

Town:

PantherPunt

– does plenty of reasonable scumhunting, reads list at 344

Silverjaws/Lizard_Buttock

– read Liz as more of a null but Silv really galvanized the ship hull for me, in terms of coming across pro-town at post 521. His 523 is his logical-looking reads list though I disagree with some of it, based on what I saw in ISO of players

MaxwellPuckett

– does reasonable scumhunting

Null:

Alchemist21

Vedith

– leaned town for him based on his ISO posts. Saw he voted Lizard. After that vote, on 556 he calls out Silv as scum as scum. Maybe a scumhunt move at Silv, to get a reaction test?

Shiro/Varian

Diego1487/TellTaleHeart

Luna Fox/JoramvanVugt

– reads list at 389

Suspicious:

Bellaphant

– Lacking enough scumhunting

Firebringer

– reads list at 367. Lacking enough scumhunting though

Ika

– Lacking enough scumhunting

MarioManiac4/Sparrowbird

– really don’t like his 304 that seemed to appear from thin air, to vote Bell. I’m mixed about his 361, as he appeared to put in reads on Pant, Luna, Alch; then he lightheartedly adds an L-1, but the way he said it was disturbing, reckless - I don’t feel from that post, like he was careful enough. Reads list at 503. 605 sounds like a frustrated town and/or frustrated new player – not saying I like the tone there one bit though. Posts from his replacement, Mario, so far – aren’t reasonable enough for me to remove my FoS. My first impression of his 701 is scummy behavior


I would have to vote Mario.

VOTE: Mario

So everyone that was on the verge of voting me it town...
three of your scumreads are "laking enough scumhunting" and literally nothing else...
and you have only three townreads?

Calling bullshit here

I.. well, I have to agree with Mario here now that he's pointed it out. Performer, all of your townreads basically have the reason 'were scumhunting', and your scumreads are 'lack of scumhunting'. That's really not looking into the game as much as you should be, I mean... scum scumhunts, and even inexperienced scum are usually able to do so while looking pretty genuine. Using that criteria as a black-and-white means to separate town from scum isn't the best of ideas. What's interesting is the most developed read is the one on Mario.. which, upon reflection (now that I'm not distracted by the lecture I was supposed to be paying attention to earlier) seems like it could be to excuse your vote on Mario.

Reads incoming. I'm getting less opposed to the Silver wagon as the day drags on.

I've been getting a little flak for my 1st reads list here, being too general except for the focus on you. Thing is, I thought it would be most important to pick 1 of the possible scum and perform a surface tunnel of him, seeing as the deadline was in sight. Meanwhile, I left others in a more general read. After some more posts by others, I'm motivated to look into Silver's ISO again, then Alch's, then Shiro's. I plan to update my reads list.

I really can't bring myself to lynch TTH ever after a defense like that.
It touches my heart.

O _ o

Have you considered that the resistance to townreading TTH is because your read on her is less logical and more emotional?

The heat is up we are putting the red colour here

This ship has sailed

LOL...Luna/Alch/Max/Shiro. This game...too funny

On a more serious note, Alch is quite a cool guy. I appreciate your post 807 .

So Alch really wants SilverJaws to go because of the mudslinging. If the TTH wagon isn't going to get steam, I propose an Alch counter wagon.

VOTE: Alchemist

Max
Luna
Vedith
Bella

Fire
SilverJaws

ika
Performer

Mario
Shiro

TTH
Alchemist

Can you shed more light on why you vote Alch? I'm reading him as townie based on his in-depth analyses.

@Panth to be fair all the counter wagon are on silver since he is the leading wagon

And you my friend are attempting to create the 3rd counter wagon to his. I doubt it will grow but yea.

Also scumreading both TTH and Alche is illogical. Scum have no reason to go that far to protect a team mate. What makes you think scumAlche would defend ScumTTH that much ?

Also i appear I am your third top scumread. Cool cool why?

Also you townread jaws. Again why ? What has he done that makes you think he is town ? <<<This question goes to your too performer cause you said my anylis about him was town yet you townread him. What has he done that can justify anything above a null. I do not get it.

Did you mean your analysis about him is scum, yet I townread him? I admit I did a brief catch-up on Silver.
I will put it on my to-do list to look over Silver's ISO again to reassess, as he's got a wagon on him and deadline is approaching fast.

@Panth to be fair all the counter wagon are on silver since he is the leading wagon

And you my friend are attempting to create the 3rd counter wagon to his. I doubt it will grow but yea.

Also scumreading both TTH and Alche is illogical. Scum have no reason to go that far to protect a team mate. What makes you think scumAlche would defend ScumTTH that much ?

Also i appear I am your third top scumread. Cool cool why?

Also you townread jaws. Again why ? What has he done that makes you think he is town ? <<<This question goes to your too performer cause you said my anylis about him was town yet you townread him. What has he done that can justify anything above a null. I do not get it.

Yeah, I really don't see both Alch and TTH on a scumteam together.

Panther, I don't remember. Did you already answer me about why Veidth was a townread for you?

I can't see them being a scumteam either, at the moment.

You just copied Performer with the saying scummy things intentionally.

Except I can give specific examples

3 reasons for my 1st reads list being like that:
1. I replaced in and worked with what time I had, to post what looked like it would suffice. According to people's comments, it's too general except for the focus on Mario. I thought it would be most important to pick 1 scum and perform a surface tunnel of him, seeing as the deadline was in sight
2. My playstyle for this game is to be simple and straightforward (overall)
3. I'm not at Pant's level. And it seems that I'm not at Flow's level either. Sorry to disappoint. I'll try my best, I'm very open to ideas for improvement

Diego hasn't impressed me either

Glad to hear that since he hasn't posted anything of value yet..... -_-

That is part of the problem. The game isn't that big to need more than a day to catch up(Granted I have some fast standars)

Shiro and company, can you guys give me tips on how to so read and post so fast? I feel like there are certain things I'm not aware of . I thought I was fast but you guys are on another level...like that dreadful Reverse Flash from The Flash. Show returning in October, I believe

-----

796 – Pant, STOP with the self doom. I’ll tell you why, most likely post game but PLEASE stop.
@Max - no need for your reads list anymore. Silv got prodded but

anyone seen ika/bella? I'm still wanting reads lists from them. It's collection time!

[Performer]

I want to know who else is fine with me hammering without a claim, i don't have a problem doing it atm, but i don't want to deprive you guys of possible info just because i took over my own instincts.

I'm not fine with a hammer yet!

Can we consider the below proposal from Alch:
@Alch – deadline extension proposal, of his post 867. I believe that would be fair to allow the replacement to do some sort of catch-up and give input
-----

840 – ah, so you two spoke last night. I see.
Can you speak with her tonight to see if she’s better? And if she can give a reads list?

[Performer]

@Shiro – 810 – I did a more intricate reassessment on Silver ISO, he doesn’t look super town anymore to me. But he doesn’t look very scummy either. There isn’t enough for me to go by.

His 521 looks ok.
The initial ISO read of his 523, it sounded like he had a point but then I combed through ika’s ISO regarding adding people to his town block. Others’ interactions with ika regarding the town block, paint the picture that it truly is ika’s playstyle rather than something suspicious. So this brings my read of Silv from townie to null. Also, his reaction to Bell doesn’t give me enough, as he only says scum use “interesting” as filler – I’m curious to Bell’s incentive for stating Luna’s entrance as interesting. Me thinking out loud, simplifying his closing remarks - alch, ika, fire, pant, luna, max are town; he’s null on me; thinks tth/bell/mario are scum, stated he’d happily vote Mario.
His 666 post didn’t have who stated “too many scumreads.” Anyone see who stated it??

I also did an ISO on ika.

ika – his town block method was new to me, didn't realize that's his playstyle. I thought he was scummy because it was different to me than the classic extensive analyses. After seeing Silv back it up, and Fire back it up in 889, it appears to really be his playstyle. Bumping him to my null read.
Now that I have a better understanding of him, his town block has been concise and easy to understand so far. He's careful to add people to his town block, preferring they provide good incentive for him to add them. His town block (reads list) from what I could understand during my ISO of him, have these as townies: alch, diego, shiro, luna


@moderator - since the deadline is so soon, can we have a deadline extension? Maybe we can get something more from his replacement

[Performer]

@Performer - What do you expect to get out of an extension? (Serious question) Do you have a case to put forward?

After my second ISO of Silv , he just isn't ringing Xmas bells to me, as high town anymore. I put him in the null pile . At the same time, his small number of posts doesn't paint a filtered-enough cup of water for me. But my case is we pester mod for extension, one that includes time for the replacement to catch up and provide analysis.

EBWOP - TTH's replacement, Diego

Also, I've been asked for readslists:


Town:

Panther, Luna Fox, Veid

Maaaybe town

Fire, silver, performer

Idek

Shiro, max, ika

Scum

Deigo, Alch, Mario

@Performer, you've got me in your scummy pile - I had a rough start to the game but your read is incorrect. Talk to me?

Hi Bell. I'm curious of Alch being in the scum pile. Your plea of innocence seems sincere.
I will do a 2nd (more thorough ISO) of you, to see if I missed something, and to see if something changes my mind to place you into another sublist of my reads list.

[Performer]

Your plea of innocence seems sincere.

It was 1 sentence saying that your read is wrong.
You are easily persuaded.

My playstyle is simple and straightforward this game. Maybe that means I am easily persuaded in this game.
But I am also open to suggestions and seeing as my initial reads list upon replacing in, was general, I think it's worth it if I re-look Bell through her ISO .
In the end, if I don't have support for the extension proposal to the mod, and if we hammer Silv, that's fine. But I'd prefer if we get an extension.

I had a finished game where my extensive pleas weren't heard and I was taken to the noose. I was a pr too. So I think my second-look at Bell, may help. We all make mistakes.

[Performer]

What on earth??
Is this suggesting we had 2 Vig and no nk?
I've seen people die from from being stabbed and being shot, but 2 shot?

Or is this the way the mod posts deaths, as shots?
If the latter is true, then there could be other scenarios:
1 mafia team, 1 sk
2 sf
1 mafia team, 2 vig

[Performer]

there's only 1 scum kill, the other is a vig (if existant, but as evidenced by 2 deaths it exists)

^What Luna said. Plus, Mafia kill flavor is supposed to be "shot" anyway. Not sure why you assumed 2 vigs and not maf + vig.

Oh I see. Didn't realize the flavor is "shot." Thanks for elaborating to Luna and Alch. Just re-read page 1, and I can add the 1+1 = 2 now. My immediate read is scummy for Mario, as he voted me without any justification.

What's going on, Mario?

VOTE: Mario

More to come at a later point regarding my thoughts, getting late right now, going to log off.

[Performer]

First things first - you guys are about as impatient as youngsters who've not got enough experience in the real world. I'm just shaking my head at everyone except Diego.
Seeing this situation, I've decided to change my playstyle and be myself, because that open setup took me for a spin as I've never played open setup before. The simple and frank playstyle, I don't see that working out any longer.
Also, if you guys think I'm scummy because I never played in an open setup and I asked about it, you guys need to slow down and look for more clues.

I told you I'd get back to you guys and now I see I'm on L-2. At least someone, namely Diego, has the good sense to defend me. The only person who defended me correctly, as I saw from the posts since I could last post. Thank you Diego. The rest of you, not so much. Fortunately we have plenty of time to talk and try to lynch another mafia today.

------


927 – Mario is this your playstyle in all games? Because that sounds like misrepresentation of me at its finest.

Unvoting you because my analysis is coming to a different theory, based on what’s been happening. I also suspect Alch , as I clearly stated I was going to get back to you guys, yet Alch voted me in the same page, on 922. Bell had Alch in the scum pile too. Alch, what are your justifications?

What makes you suspect ika? I’m going to do ISO of him.

928 – Pant’s sharp VCA, I concur. Alch has grown suspicious. You aren’t right about me though.

931 – adding Ved to my town list, this is sharp.

959, 960, 963 – Thank you Diego. First person to actually read me right after day 1, on this site.

UNVOTE: Mario


-----

I also have yet to see ANYONE state they're re-reading what the dead posted, building a case with supporting evidence, instead of voting so quick. I honestly expected more from you guys. Personally I plan to re-read ISOs of ika, Fire, Bell, and Shiro.

And Luna, suggesting the Vig shoot me is a bad idea. If the Vig follows through and I flip town - which I will - you know that'll look scummy.

[Performer]

Another reason why I unvoted Mario.

Silv thought alch, ika, fire, pant, luna, max are town; thinks tth/bell/mario are scum, stated he’d happily vote Mario.

[Performer]

He thinks I'm playing bad, yes that's embarrassing, but I'm thanking him for defending me by thinking I'm townie.

Pant how dare you lol!

[Performer]

954 ... has anyone had much experience playing with Mario? Does he troll like St. Constantine or is just obnoxious like RadiantCowBells?

I've been re-reading ISOs of people and I'm scratching my head over Silv's 523 as he mentioned TTH/Diego bussing Bellaphant. Diego and Silv voted each other by the end of day 1. Silv mentioned he'd happily vote Mario since he's at L-1. I'm thinking that post along with others, will be crucial in our analysis of the right lynch on d2, but not certain what else to make of it. If anyone has more to add in terms of interpretation of that post, please do so.

[Performer]

oops messed up the person I meant to say Performer not PP

Also OMG I totally forgot my colour ;~;

I don't see how that is being rude or name calling, as I'm defending myself since I'm innocent. But since you believe it's rude, I apologize.

[Performer]

1.
VOTE: NO LYNCH

Took some time looking at the open setup on page 1 and we have 3 goons and 7 townies, meaning only 3 pr vts. Unless we get an extremely good case on someone, I'm thinking no lynch right now. If we mislynch a pr vt, we only have 2 pr vts left. Then n2 comes, we have 1 pr vt left, making it harder to win.

2.
But if we ultimately choose no lynch on d2, worst comes to worst, we have 1 pr vt killed.

Since someone made a shot on n1, we have a Cop or a 1 more shot from the Vig. Provided we don't mislynch and the cop doesn't die tonight, we have another chance for investigation to come through. Also, if we don't mislynch, we have more pr vts left, ones who could put their power to use overnight, and come back in d3 with more results.

3.
Anyway, I'm going back to reading ISOs. If I come up with something, I'll post it.

4.
And what's your case on me then, Ved? You stating that against me, is making me reconsider you as townie. Or at best, a townie who isn't looking in more places.

[Performer]

I thought that this setup only had 2 PR's?
How do you know that we have a cop?

And like I care what someone on my scum list thinks of me.

You've have to read it closely, man. Because the open setup states we have certain pr vts. 2 deaths occurred on d1, we must have 1-shot Cop or 2-shot Vig. Other pr vts can't kill, based on that list.


Your lack of reasoning is rather suspicious, just like Mario's. According to page 1, we have 3 goons, 7 townies, 3 pr vts = 13 players total. 3 died, none were pr vts. This is all the more reasoning that right now I am choosing a no vote strategy, just trying to gain info and doing my analyses on people, including you , Ved.

The fact that you want me to put a "very strong case" on not looking scummy, and you don't want to do the same to not look scummy - that's priceless.

[Performer]

As I suspected, Performer thinks a 1-shot Cop means a vig shot.
Nope. Just means 1 investigation. This makes me want to think you might be town, as this would have been discussed in scum chat.
But I also am always skeptical at intentional attempts to be derpcleared.

Either way, all the more reason Alch should be the lynch today.

I thought 1-shot Cop meant he can shoot someone once as well as investigate.

Good grief. I'm switching back and forth in tabs doing ISO reads and such, and now this.

VOTE: Vedith

And no L-1 mention after your vote on me? You're definite scum or a really awful townie player. Come on , dude. I posted something regarding Silv's post and no one even commented on that, and you're still telling me there's nothing I'm doing while I'm doing my own research. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with certain people.

Also, Alch hasn't replied yet, so what're you going to do, vote him too, Ved? Seriously, this guy.

[Performer]

@Vedith - because if you read his post it's very clear that this is what he thought. Whether it was a genuine thought or an attempted derpclear I'm not sure about.

@Performer :

As I suspected, Performer thinks a 1-shot Cop means a vig shot. Come on , dude. I posted something regarding Silv's post and no one even commented on that, and you're still telling me there's nothing I'm doing while I'm doing my own research. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with certain people.

I responded to your post regarding Silv and said it made no sense. You didn't respond to that? You ignored it and said nobody wants to play with you. Don't do that.

Pant I expected nothing less than you being patient , which I commend. But I'm not ignoring, I'm not caught up in replying to everyone yet. I'm planning on doing 2 more ISOs after getting some breakfast, on Ved and Shiro - they posted a ton, it'll take awhile to see what I get.

I've been re-reading ISOs of people and I'm scratching my head over Silv's 523 as he mentioned TTH/Diego bussing Bellaphant. Diego and Silv voted each other by the end of day 1. Silv mentioned he'd happily vote Mario since he's at L-1. I'm thinking that post along with others, will be crucial in our analysis of the right lynch on d2, but not certain what else to make of it. If anyone has more to add in terms of interpretation of that post, please do so.

Nobody commented on this because it made no sense

btw then what did you thought 2 shot vig meant. 2 shots and then more shots????Assuming you read the roles(since you know cop investigate) and you thought 1 shot meant 1 kill shot + the role then what did you thought 2 shot vig meant ? This makes no sense whatsoever

Shiro, 2-shot Vig means 2 shots , right? If he had 2 shots, 1 shot was made, 1 more left. If we had the cop, according to you guys, he can't shoot anybody anymore.

[Performer]

954 ... has anyone had much experience playing with Mario? Does he troll like St. Constantine or is just obnoxious like RadiantCowBells?I've been re-reading ISOs of people and I'm scratching my head over Silv's 523 as he mentioned TTH/Diego bussing Bellaphant. Diego and Silv voted each other by the end of day 1. Silv mentioned he'd happily vote Mario since he's at L-1. I'm thinking that post along with others, will be crucial in our analysis of the right lynch on d2, but not certain what else to make of it. If anyone has more to add in terms of interpretation of that post, please do so.

What are you talking about here? Like what is the point you are trying to get across? It looks to me like a whole bunch of nothing.What made you scratch your head about Silv saying TTH/Diego was bussing Bella? Silv was scum. Bella was town. So TTH/Diego wasn't a bus no matter what when voting Bella. Silv was throwing scumshade at Bella. What are you confused about?Thanks for linking that post though. There is that Lizard/Silv slot townreading Alch hard again.

I've got a theory - it's based on something that great scum teams use. I've seen the strategy implemented once by YurikoJasmine once.

And how is this post scummy?

No that is not what he said.He even says that we have a chance for another investigation, so he knows that the cop is investigating.

Not sure what you're getting at here by adding the last part about me knowing the cop is investigating. Role cops do investigations at night, everybody should know this.

No no no noYou said you thought1 shot copMeant a cop that can make a 1 kill shotYou say that the 1 shot is different from the role of the cop. You say you thought it is a cop that can make 1 kill shotSo I ASKWhat did you thought 2 shot vig was ?You obviosuly thought 2 shot was the number of kill he can attempt based on your assumption about the 1 shot cop. So what did you thought 2 shot vig meant ?

2-shot Vig = 2 shots for the Vig. Like I said, if we have a Vig, he only has 1 more shot because he used it on n1. Or is everyone here not remembering what happened on n1?

1.VOTE: NO LYNCHTook some time looking at the open setup on page 1 and we have 3 goons and 7 townies, meaning only 3 pr vts. Unless we get an extremely good case on someone, I'm thinking no lynch right now. If we mislynch a pr vt, we only have 2 pr vts left. Then n2 comes, we have 1 pr vt left, making it harder to win.2.But if we ultimately choose no lynch on d2, worst comes to worst, we have 1 pr vt killed.Since someone made a shot on n1, we have a Cop or a 1 more shot from the Vig. Provided we don't mislynch and the cop doesn't die tonight, we have another chance for investigation to come through. Also, if we don't mislynch, we have more pr vts left, ones who could put their power to use overnight, and come back in d3 with more results.3.Anyway, I'm going back to reading ISOs. If I come up with something, I'll post it.4.And what's your case on me then, Ved? You stating that against me, is making me reconsider you as townie. Or at best, a townie who isn't looking in more places.

Who the heck suggest no lynch when we're ahread?Lynch this pls

Some of you guys don't read or are mafia. Like I said, RIGHT NOW I'm thinking no lynch until we get more info. Lynching someone right now is the stupidest move because clearly there isn't enough clarity and there's finger pointing, possibly influenced by scum.

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Regarding Pant's confusion, in a finished game, YurikoJasmine once mercilessly bussed her partners in crime, ended up winning in LyLo because town voted each other out. I've been thinking of that theory and that is my best guess. So your suspicion against TTH on d1 wasn't for nothing, Pant. Diego needs some looking into as well.

Right now because of what's happened so far, I'm thinking

Ved/Diego are the remaining two.

Curious to see what ika says though. Haven't seem him contribute on d2.

[Performer]

Not sure what you're getting at here by adding the last part about me knowing the cop is investigating. Role cops do investigations at night, everybody should know this.

Oh! Now I get it... I thought that Role Cops transported 2 people, so I read this as a 1 shot Doc heal who sends a message every night.
You are town for me.

The only role I've come across that can transport people out of town, is the Commuter. Never heard of a 1-shot Doc.

UNVOTE: Vedith

I supported my no lynch case with the information from page 1, because I learned of this unconventional strategy from a friend I play FM with, offsite. It works when there's not enough information for a proper scum lynch, which is what I'm seeing at the moment. But like I said, if things change and we catch the right person, of course I'm up for voting d2. But right now, it's not looking that way.

[Performer]

No no no no

You said you thought

1 shot cop

Meant a cop that can make a 1 kill shot

You say that the 1 shot is different from the role of the cop. You say you thought it is a cop that can make 1 kill shot

So I ASK

What did you thought 2 shot vig was ?

You obviosuly thought 2 shot was the number of kill he can attempt based on your assumption about the 1 shot cop. So what did you thought 2 shot vig meant ?

2-shot Vig is someone who kills his target.

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@Performer, first you thank Diego for defending you and now you're saying he's one of the last remaining scum. What's up with that? Most of your suspicions today look like nothing more than OMGUS.

I did more ISO and compared Silv's posts to a game I saw in the past, to what was going on here. I thanked him at the time because he said I was a townie. Pant brought up Diego, was confused by my analysis, and that's why Diego is suspect to me. I saw his and TTH's ISOs, they don't exactly look convincing.

1071 - Gee, Shiro. I'm glad you find another close townie death to put a smile on your face. That makes me very disturbed. : 9

And I hope you guys find this sacrifice helpful because I sure don't. This is the most easily persuaded town I've ever seen. Look at the number of days we have left. Why are you guys trying to lynch me again?

[Performer]

2-shot Vig is someone who kills his target.

Then why did you thought 1 shot cop could kill ?

I thought 1-shot Cop was like the shot-Vig, someone who could kill. Plus Cop was in the role, so I thought he had dual powers, as I mentioned in 1014.

@Alchemist - thoughts on the slot you've been hard defending as town voting for you?

I've already said I think all the people who voted for me are Town. I haven't seen anything scummy come from Diego.

On the surface I didnt see much from him either, which was why I had him as null in d1. On d2 after seeing this disgrace of a situation, I started wondering about how scum play and it's def possible that they could be pulling this strat that Yuriko did. The strategy gave her so much town credit as the game went on, that town ended up losing.

Hmmm...

I've been debating in my mind whether to do this now or later. Now rids the game of the distraction, later would give more info, but I think I've gotten all the info I'm gonna get from my wagon, so I may as well hit my green button. Also can't risk the vig hitting confirmable Town.

I'm the Innocent Child. I'll send in my PM to the mod.

So now can we lynch performerscum

Yeah I'm just going to ignore replying to this guy unless he says something substantial, rather than troll . Remember, I asked you a few times and you didn't elaborate on why you voted me. Pant asked you too, yet you didn't reply.


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Diego1487/TellTaleHeart – replacement Diego didn’t post much. Voted Silv (could’ve been a scum bussing the partner), defended me on d2 (could’ve been trying to gain town credit along with bus bussing move). Didn’t provide reads list, not pressuring anyone. I think his 831 along with Silv’s posts, tells of a scum team trying to gain town credit by bussing Silv.

[Performer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Performer

Seriously, this guy's scum. I've given my reasoning and yet he continues to (unless i miss something) have me as his top scumread for the following convincing reasons:

Hmmm...

I've been debating in my mind whether to do this now or later. Now rids the game of the distraction, later would give more info, but I think I've gotten all the info I'm gonna get from my wagon, so I may as well hit my green button. Also can't risk the vig hitting confirmable Town.

I'm the Innocent Child. I'll send in my PM to the mod.

So now can we lynch performerscum

Yeah I'm just going to ignore replying to this guy unless he says something substantial, rather than troll . Remember, I asked you a few times and you didn't elaborate on why you voted me. Pant asked you too, yet you didn't reply.

yeah. i haven't said why i scumread you. you're right.

OR you could learn to read the thread and look at Post 1086.
You know, the one Panther quoted.

You're dumbtelling and you're dicktelling.[/quote]


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Pant is right about you being a joke in this game. Your 927 didn't come across like 1086. You voted in a post on d2 after n2, then said I got my panties in a twist over Silver being run up, in the next post - which I regarded as a hot-air post meaning nothing.
If you were clearer and quit trolling, maybe people would take you more seriously. But of course, that would be laughable.

My read on Silv was wrong, I asked for the extension because I wasn't convinced .

Diego is most suspect on my reads.

VOTE: Diego

[Performer]

if Performer flips scum, the 3rd scum is always Diego/ika...if one of you two is the vig, shoot the other....if the vig is someone else, take your pick.

Definitely go after these 2. The worst thing about this ordeal is we're sacrificing 2 town today for 1 mafia to lynch on d3. Well, can't say I didn't try persuading you guys, you guys just won't listen, finding people with elaborate talk to be oddballs who are scum to be lynched. And blowing it out of proportion when I put someone in null, was brave to be different to simply request for more time to hear what he says. Here's what I guarantee you will happen if you guys lynch me. Me+1 more townie dies on n2 (possibly even a pr); d3 - hopefully a scum lynch, n3 - 1 more townie (possibly pr) dies; d4 - hopefully a scum lynch, n4 - townie dies (possibly pr). You guys get the picture.

Would it be a bad idea for me to say who I think the vig is? Scum can't stop the shot, but if you guys want to keep it hidden a while longer I won't say it.

Why are you so eager to tell who you think the Vig is? I think it'd be a terrible idea. If you tell it right now, they may target the Vig or use PoE to try for the 3rd pr at night. I think we have better options than to reveal who we think the Vig is.

Even discounting Performer's play what you do you think of Flow Alpha's stance re:me? I had him as town for that, but now im not sure, because Performer's being scummy all over.

I had them Town, but they dropped into null when they wouldn't let the replace-out scumread go on Jormvan.

Alch, in a later post on d1 in 894 after another ISO, I put him back in null because he wasn't look too townie anymore.

Inb4 performer doesn't claim because he's not at L-1 anymore.
I'm starting to get suspicious of ika, removing their vote as soon as people are being run up to lynch. If performer flips scum this needs to be scrutinized tomorrow.

I'm sure you mean if I flip town. Regardless of what you of my alignment, ika and Diego are most suspect to me. Took a closer look at ika's ISO after his recent activity, and he looks incredibly scummy. Adding people to his town block with no basis; going out to poker, 455 and 493 are scummy excuses to not elaborate on his town reads. 887 and 1134 posts are his pattern of demanding hammer - reasonable from scum aiming to frame someone who hammered. Silv and Fire mentioned it's his playstyle but it's time we got on his case about this pattern, rather than have it as acceptable townie action. Posts a ton of fluff posts, sheeps the wagon on someone, unvotes, demands hammer.

ika's coasting by as scum.
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Seeing as we have 11 days left, I'm not claiming. I can see it now, Luna and Mario following up with saying "vote this/scumbag!/hammering now!" or something along the lines. You guys remind me of someone
I put in my time to stretch my thinking about all this on d2 from d1, so I expect you guys to take more time and see what we can get from ika and Diego. We've got

11 days,

town. Come on! You guys aren't headed in the right direction by lynching me, and then we have another town death tonight, possibly even pr.

ika/Diego have been lackluster and Diego has yet to get back to us. If I'm wrong about those two, then shoot/lynch me, I'll take full responsibility. I'm not expecting much if anything, from ika. In fact, I expect him to vote me again - if he's scum, that's logical. If he's town, then ask yourselves what use he can be for the rest of game if he provides nothing, just sheeps the vote, then unvotes, then asks for hammer.

[Performer]

Actually thinking about it ika's jump off the Silver wagon would very well be to avoid leaving scum busing after it was inevitable, so yeah ika's a good vig shot.

your funny.

you should know that ima cronic busser

Quit being hard to read. The longer this goes on and the more you keep pushing a hammer on me, the more suspicious you are. These billion and one short posts...do you only post from your phone? lol

What's your take on Diego? You mentioned you don't question those who're added to your town block because you're paranoid, according to 493. I'm not buying it. People who don't elaborate on things, they come off as hiding something. Hiding the fact that you aren't town.

"i'm not claiming"
Claim or die.
This is not a request.
This is an order.

This will be a very telling post after a Performer flip, provided it happens.

I saw an earlier post today (I've been skimming, still in class) that said my wagon positioning on Silver wasn't good. I think it was Luna. Elaborate, please? I think my stance on Silver was pretty clear. By the time enough RL days had passed where I was satisfied that he could be hiding scum and not town with an RL problem, intent to hammer had already been declared.

Still on board with Performer wagon from what I've seen, but I don't see any problems with waiting. If he has more to say, let him say it. If he's town, we'll want the info, and if he's scum, we'll still want the info. Unless you think the game is stagnating because of this? I could see that, it happens a lot.

I don't think anyone wants the game to stagnate. What are you trying to say, that it will be a telling post after my flip?

I already voted Diego, the guy and the predecessor were being way too mysterious . Diego where did you go? Can you bring me some food while I await my doom? I'm getting hungry. No worries about the money, I'll repay you for my share of the food.
Oh and bring some replies, because dude. This mystery man thing, you bussing your partner after seeing him be inactive so long, trying to maintain town credit by defending me. Man, that was good stuff. But no more. I'm curious to see what you have to bring to the table.

[Performer]

Performer is one of the weirder players I've ever seen but dammit if he's not starting to grow on me

LOL. I'm quite flattered that I'm growing on you like fruit on a tree. Also flattered that you find me weird, I think being normal can be very boring.

I think I said it earlier when I stopped the simple playstyle, but yeah, This is me being myself (Luna/Ved you know what I mean LOL) instead of utilizing a playstyle like being simple and frank, being a careful town doctor until getting pressured unrighteously, being lighthearted and not very serious, being paranoid and musical, or something else. This is just me in the rest of the game until my death. I do try to have a sense of humor. At the same time, I'm just trying my best to help town. I have a great respect for townies who don't give up, those who put in effort. They may end up losing anyway but at least they won't regret having done as much as they can.

I thought Ika voted him to L1?

He did but I think he unvoted afterwards didnt he ?

He voted me , then unvoted, then asked for hammer. He did this in d1 too, 887. If you check out his ISO, he's shadier than the the black filling on my right molar.

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Anyway, I've got to do some chores and get ready for class later. See all tomorrow, if I'm not dead by then.

[Performer]

I have several things to say and many things I disagree with - I'll be getting to them in a few more posts.
I'm also shocked that Diego hates playing scum - in this game it looked like he was a natural at it. He did EXCELLENT work with removing the most dangerous folks first, including me, as I already figured ika & him were scummy as hell. Yet people didn't seem to follow-up on that after my mislynch.
I did expect more from Alch as he lived quite long in this game.

[Performer]

Luna Fox: Losing 3p Lylos since 2013
orz

It's alright. It takes time to improve - I know this personally. When people die and they put up closing remarks like I did - about their scumreads - you need to take their words seriously, and follow-up . Don't let scum get away with it, which was what d3 and beyond, was about. You guys took a little too long in stringing up ika and got tricked by Diego. I thought at least Pant would've realized what was going on. I wanted to yell at you guys so many times, it wasn't even funny.

[Performer]

At a point in the game, Luna said she didn't feel like going on with the rest of the game. I feel like some motivational speaker but as town - no matter what - you CAN NOT give up.

We had plenty of information , all you needed to do was sift through it and piece the puzzle together to base your vote off of. There were clues in my dead-man posts for everyone to sift through. I stated ika/Diego were suspicious as hell and you guys didn’t pick up immediately after n2. Great work on lynching ika though, on d3.


Diego continued his masquerade of stalling after my mislynch – 1309 – needs more time to think despite the wealth of information left in the past. 1333 was his “prodge” despite Alch asking him a question. I also asked him something before my mislynch, and he never replied. Combine those actions and inactions with what happened on d1 & d2, and it should've been clear as day to you guys after n2...that ika & Diego were to vote out next. I'm not sure what was so hard to comprehend about my hypothesis of scum Diego bussing Silv.
As Diego admitted, he hates playing scum (as do I)...his scum play (nothing personal, Diego) is far from superb. Diego lurked like ika did - this should've rang alarm bells for everyone. Diego ended up playing the rest of town like a top-notch violinist at nomination night.

[Performer]

Mafia should always consider me a threat.
I am dangerous in LYLO.

Thank you for the info , Fire. I honestly had no idea.
I think this information will be incredibly useful later on. Town...works together. : )