Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[wgeurts]

So it begins.
VOTE: Titus
Because she was scum/Serial Killer in my last game.

[wgeurts]

What you watching?

[wgeurts]

Why the heck have I been marked?
Reading up later once I'm not about to cycle 13k.

[wgeurts]

Sorry I've not been too active recentely, I've got an important German exam tommorow (and I suck at German) which I need to get a good grade for. I'll then be posting my usual ammount.

[wgeurts]

I'm free and doing this right now, expect me to have my head back in the fray soon.

[wgeurts]

Well I've read up and the thread is truly filled with utter crap, though I can say I'm not convinced Titus is scum and I have drawn some reads/thoughts from the frey which I'll discuss in later posts.
UNVOTE:
I don't think LQ is scum either.

[wgeurts]

I'll make a post on that, the whole gamestate feels weird to me and I'm lacking strong scum reads. Early game titus' play made me want to shoot her there and then however it's improved and the whole fruit titus/jeanne crap has fried my mind. Something's off but I can't figure out what, how jeanne went from titus saying she's icky to how it is now is beyond me and LQ doesn't seem to be the one we should be going after for reasons I'll explain in my next post.

Also, has nobody yet realised Bright isn't even on the playerlist? I suggest someone claims ownership otherwise we could lynch it. This wasn't a bastard game right?
Also titus could you explain the fruit thing? It's really confusing me.
Those posting too little need to do a little more.

[wgeurts]

Also Ranger, care to say what your mark does?
Are we now destined to be conf-town bro's and carry this game to victory?
Or am I doomed to some horrible and painful death?

[wgeurts]

Hey elibern, was your early game play to do with some game-mechanic related thing or was it some form of slayer's gambit (I think that's the right one).

[wgeurts]

Titus' accusations of LQ rolefishing are pretty darn awful and they are the reasons I wouldn't of minded lynching her at that point. It really looked like her play in a currently ongoing game, making something of nothing much and heavily attacking it. I find LQ's reactions to her push fitting and seem to have a town mindset behind them. If he is being honest then I can completely understand the "what in heaven's name is happening" attitude you see in his posts. He also doesn't OMGUS titus which I'd predict a scum-LQ to do. The reason I think it's all not faked? He's a newer player (not a full out newb though) and I doubt he has acquired that level of skill yet.

I can also see a (as put in his own words) "gamesolvey" mentality in his posts, his pushes/reasons are not too bad and he's not just going with flow which I like.

I don't like you Scumreading me so early. You got a reason?

The majority of your posts have had this unnatural vibe about them. If I felt like explaining in detail greater than that right now, I would have done so already, but generally you'll find I'm a fairly lazy early-game player.

K, go ahead and vote me. I got nothing to hide.

despite him not realising he was already voting him I really like this post, I see my own earlier cocky play in it and it really screams town to me.

Why the heck have I been marked?
Reading up later once I'm not about to cycle 13k.

Wgeurts was the 3rd person to ask about the mark. They've been following people.

VOTE: wgeurts

This vote on me isn't too bad either, despite me actually not having read the thread at that point and just popping in after getting a PM saying I was marked. It's posts like these that make me believe he's trying to solve the game.

Hey, everyone, Titus said it herself, she gets angrier the more certain the probability of lynch is. Let's see if she's gonna start yelling if we lynch her scumbuddy Elbirn.

This is the worst fucking argument I've seen in this thread so far. But Jeanne11 can't be serious her. I still don't like it at all.

I'd really like it if Jeanne11 got some pressure on them, because these kinds of posts are shitty and I don't want to see Jeanne11 skate by with this kind of shit.

VOTE: Jeanne11

Also not a bad post showing what I explained earlier, I could grab a few more but I think you get my point by now.

I also like how he's not imploding despite being the leading wagon and so much pressure, this is a good sign especially with newer players who don't yet have such feigned confidence in their play. (He also doesn't seem to be too confident in his play either knowing his mafia discussion posts so really I'd expect to see him slowly breaking down by know if he's scum)

Pr-edit: now I'll get to you then titus

[wgeurts]

So Titus, from a game you know full well what I'm talking about and if you don't look at my first post. You should expect me to be paranoid if you were to pick a target, semi-strawman them, then tunnel them there onwards discrediting those that come to their defence. It was starting to look like this was going to happen, however it slowed down and took a different turn. That cooled my will to lynch you, as well as this weird thing you have with jeanne. I know somethings off there but I've decided to let it resolve itself instead of pursuing it.

Now to why titus' original push was pretty crumpets.

So far I don't like Jeanne11

VOTE: LicketedQuickety

Doesn't like someone. Keeps RVS vote.

I don't like that.

To me LQ's post more read as a growing suspicion that hadn't yet take full form. This kind of gets backed up in his later posts.

So far I don't like Jeanne11

VOTE: LicketedQuickety

Doesn't like someone. Keeps RVS vote.

I don't like that.

Its not enough for a vote. I don't really do the "change RVS votes 5 times in 2 pages." I have not even asked Jeanne11 a question yet.

PEdit: cuz you got the youtube link wrong so I know its out of character for you to use youtube videos.

Here, he says he hasn't even asked a question and the post seems to be implying that his feelings towards jeanne weren't complete and he wasn't sure of them at that point. Feeling someone feels different isn't a bad thing and town often do it, heck if you want another example ISO Ranger who said "Brantz" felt off.

Really feeling icky about LQ...

That's not really a protown sentiment to push even if Jeanne is scum...

How is it not pro-town? do we not push Scum or something? C'mon Titus, I know you know better that that.

If she's doing something out of the ordinary, town or scum, it's a crumb of somesort. As such, it's a rolefish.

This is going too far. This is not rolefishing at all and if LQ is being genuine and is town it's definitely not a rolefish, he just feels somethings off. Titus is making the assumption here that LQ is scum and therefore it has to be a rolefish, as if she sees him as town that wouldn't happen. It's too big of a leap to take and titus knows this, it looked to me like one of titus' semi-strawman bogus tunnel arguments she has when she's scum and which I saw very recently.

Well, I could link you, but I cannot really remember where. I've done it on multiple sites.

You and Titus seem to be a little too coordinated for my taste.

PEdit: Why are you giving her that kind of credit Titus?

Stop rolefishing. I'm not giving her credit. I don't fully trust her. You're just rolefishing.

There's no way you can be so certain he's rolefishing, where's the nagging doubt that says "well, if he's town and what he says is honest I may be wrong". She's jumping to obscure conclusions and stating them as fact, easy enough to do and it looks pretty convincing as scum until people look closer.

Well, I could link you, but I cannot really remember where. I've done it on multiple sites.

You and Titus seem to be a little too coordinated for my taste.

PEdit: Why are you giving her that kind of credit Titus?

Stop rolefishing. I'm not giving her credit. I don't fully trust her. You're just rolefishing.

How the hell is that a rolefish?

I have no idea why I am being tunneled right now.

These above to posts seem to indicate LQ is seriously confused at Titus' reasons and I don't believe he's faking it, these are exactly the reactions you would expect if he was being honest about his thing with jeanne.

[wgeurts]

@Jeanne, Cultivate but never forget failsafe procedures.

@Wgerts, My accusations of LQ role fishing stand. A play that supposes dumb town (which you do on LQ) is several layers of ewww and white knight. Forgetting who is voting you is usually, but not always a scum indicator. Him not knowing AUA is pretty bad. Either he has no attention to relevant details or is scum.

Won't lie, I didn't know AUA until I double checked my PM, and why is the latter option not possible? He's a newer player and not that experienced as the mafia discussion posts should show.

[wgeurts]

1 and 3 are both viable options in this case, and I saw it as a tunnel in making myself hence my alarm bells started going off.
Also there's an option 4) LQ simply is misreading/interpreting something.

Looking at the scum/town motivation/mindset for LQ's actions there and the town one makes more sense. You're making the assumption that:
A-Jeanne is town
B-She's not awkward/trying something new
C-LQ's misreading jeane and you may be misreading him.

There are a lot of variables there and that's why I say your accusations of rolefishing far-fetched. I doubt he would even think of role-fishing in such a subtle sly manner as he's not that experienced: and that's something we can prove. The town explanation makes more logical sense than the scum one in my opinion.

Also, can you explain what the heck is going on with you and jeanne plus the fruit?
You started off as sceptical of her support of you and now you act like masons or some crap, what's happened?
If one of you two flips scum I'm willing to bet there is a high chance of you two being partners.

[wgeurts]

C is more a possibility which you're not considering, I botched that

[wgeurts]

Also VOTE: Klingon

[wgeurts]

@wg That would only be good if I am scum. If you consider the possibility that I am town, his push would seem scum. Unless we lynch townies?

No, the logic isn't if you're town he was rolefishing as there a lot more variables than that.
I see no problem in you both being town to be quite honest.

[wgeurts]

Also, in my first game here I was also inexperienced, yet I was scum-read because of it. Why should he be exempt from being scum-read just because he is a newb?

He isn't, it however it gives explanations to certain behaviour. I never said he's a newb so let him off, I gave a whole post showing how it makes more sense for him to be town in that area than the rolefishing crumpets. There was a lot more than me "letting him off cause newb".

[wgeurts]

As he may think your scum?
Man I'd love to know who's town but then this wouldn't be a game. If you're both town someone's making a mistake, that happens and is a possibility!

[wgeurts]

I never trust anything 100% unless there's undeniable proof, we all can make mistakes and it does happen.

[wgeurts]

I am of mindset that there should be no mistakes.

VOTE: LQ

You are then a fool, people make mistakes and you are a fool to deny it. If we didn't make mistakes this game wouldn't be physically possible.

Also I don't believe 100% LQ is town, stop misrepping me and counter my points. If you can't counter something you may need to consider your view may be "mistaken".

[wgeurts]

Like if someone convinces me he's scum I'll think he's scum.
Same for if he acts scummy later.

[wgeurts]

You are so not getting an invitation to the farm.

Any suspicion of mine is a tunnel in the making. It's a load of crap.

I don't have to suppose Jeanne is town to do that, but you and LQ seem to be on the same path regarding Jeanne. Namely that I cannot know Jeanne is town. I can't know anyone is town for certain but I am relatively confident.

Yet you seem to think Jeanne is town. So why are you objecting? Because I figured something out faster than you? :/

Nah, though in your scum play it does happen and you can't really deny that. It was also a suspicion, the fact I'm considering you to be town already shows that I'm considering I may be mistaken. If you weren't tunneling and you're town we then both disagree, one of us is then mistaken and I can live with that (though I'd like to solve it). Also this is exactly the discrediting I was speaking about, show me how I'm wrong instead of just saying it.
Also, jeanne is one of those leaning towards scum.

[wgeurts]

Why the Klingon vote wgeurts?

Will explain later

[wgeurts]

I also want details about how your read on me evolved.

Have you read my posts at all?
You started of looking similar to a game you were scum in, but your play diverted from that and this thing with you and jeanne indicates to me there is more than what meets the eye.

[wgeurts]

I also want details about how your read on me evolved.

Have you read my posts at all?
You started of looking similar to a game you were scum in, but your play diverted from that and this thing with you and jeanne indicates to me there is more than what meets the eye.

And you never considered me "rescuing" a buddy by posting gibberish wilfully?

Yes I have, I even have notes on it:

-If Titus is scum jeanne is likely a partner 74 could be seen as distancing for instance. Keep an eye on this and await flips.
-Suspicion at those that join LQ's wagon opportunistically though is good.
-What changed from finding Jeanne's buddy slimy to town?
-What happens on page 8 is really beyond me. What's up with the fruit and interaction with Jeanne

[wgeurts]

No, that's a jotted down later associative which I can refer back to later. Note the "keep an eye on and await flips"

[wgeurts]

Titus I'm not town reading you or jeanne

[wgeurts]

Nor are you strong scum reads

[wgeurts]

Also preflip associatives are bad, you should know this.

[wgeurts]

Strawberry?

[wgeurts]

Yeah jeanne, could you explain?

[wgeurts]

Then my votes on Jeanne.

[wgeurts]

Titus, what is your role name?

[wgeurts]

@FK How? Well, it's simple. If Titus is town, she won't associate with scum.

Yeah, I know my logic is weird, but so is wg's idea to vote a townie for the lulz.

?

[wgeurts]

Jeanne that reasoning is pretty weak...

[wgeurts]

Wgeurts is also obvscum.

How?

[wgeurts]

UNVOTE:
No it isn't I changed my mind for reasons that will become clear later and others I can give now.

[wgeurts]

Though this whole gambit proves me wrong, you can be town.

[wgeurts]

It's almost hilarious how wrong you are once again with reading me and that'll too become clear later, have you ever got my alignment correct?

[wgeurts]

UNVOTE:
No it isn't I changed my mind for reasons that will become clear later and others I can give now.

Then you should. Fmpov, you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

But I'm not
You like gambit's this whole thing looked like a giant gambit and seemed to coincidental when the day-lock happened. If you were informed then I really wouldn't have expected you to know when the lock would happen, your whole "good harvest" post suggested that you did. Now I fully believed that you have that messenger ability and setup some secret code, however the informed thing seemed like a lie. You would come out of this looking incredibly town having coordinated town into not just willy nilly flopping around when the lock happens, titus the saviour from this awful scum role. It's a good gambit, but how would you have known when it would have happened?
That felt off.
Also how your handling RR is a little weird.

I was wrong though and what you did makes sense, I'm going to reread again using this info.

[wgeurts]

Need to think about RR's post, he may have a point.

[wgeurts]

Second, I was more concerned with what scum would do. Active smart town vote LQ. Active dumb town vote Jeanne (hence the dog). Scum vote Jeanne or stay out of the box. That's what I expected if LQ scum and no scum in Jeanne Elbrin Suzune.

Why would they vote LQ?

[wgeurts]

Klingon's Ranger vote also needs to be explained.

Scum think it's a trap, they all rebel and no vote. They wouldn't have any reason to think it's a trap. You can throw a lot of words out, but unless someone told them, they would have no idea. Even if they did, what scum thinks MASS ANONYMOUS VOTING THAT ENDS THE DAY is town? They think SK.

You also read it as a gladiate which tells me you failed to comprehend posts. A rally cry is not a gladiate.

Nope, scum act like wgeurts. Please read posts. Ty.

It felt it was a trap but done by scum?
Why not vise-versa?

[wgeurts]

I* darn phone-posting

[wgeurts]

Also titus, will you put in your sig "I can't read wgeurts, you should read him the opposite of what I do" for a month if I'm town?
As so far you've never done it right.

[wgeurts]

How do you know?
Make a case, convince me. Anyone can say someone's scum, however I'm town reading him so you'll have to convinve me otherwise.

[wgeurts]

Klingon's Ranger vote also needs to be explained.

Scum think it's a trap, they all rebel and no vote. They wouldn't have any reason to think it's a trap. You can throw a lot of words out, but unless someone told them, they would have no idea. Even if they did, what scum thinks MASS ANONYMOUS VOTING THAT ENDS THE DAY is town? They think SK.

You also read it as a gladiate which tells me you failed to comprehend posts. A rally cry is not a gladiate.

Nope, scum act like wgeurts. Please read posts. Ty.

It felt it was a trap but done by scum?
Why not vise-versa?

Why would scum trigger anonymous voting D1? Or mass end day? Both?

Did you run this down? It's wrong but still should have lead you to vote LQ.

As I explained as a gambit to look town

[wgeurts]

Maybe they did?
Also the role fishing thing is still utter crap.

[wgeurts]

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Jeane11
No one LQ was a beacon of towniness on this wagon, what's making the possibility he's town and people on it are scum impossible?

[wgeurts]

Really titus there is nothing that is pointing against those being on LQ actually being opportunistic scum? Why isn't this possible?
It's apparently more scummy in your eyes to vote for the person who's unlikely to get lynched?
Titus, it was as bright as day that you weren't simply informed that ability was active. Your secret language was subtle but your "this will be a good harvest" made it very clear you knew that the vote anon thing was about to happen. You spoke of accelerating it and stuff as well, meaning you had control somehow meaning your informed was a lie.

Why would scum use it know?
Idk?
Because that's what town would do if they had the role to look town?

Your logic at the moment doesn't work.

[wgeurts]

Fudge these english errors, I'm going to my PC

Also titus, what does elibern have to do with this?

[wgeurts]

VOTE: ranger

[wgeurts]

VOTE: ranger

why so?

His reads list was a literal copy of titus'. It's opportunistic and the posts after it give me the imperssion he's setting up to wagon any of the global possible lynches.
My reread also is giving me other reads which I'll give when done.

[wgeurts]

To start with Fire-Kari is also probably scum.

[wgeurts]

That's black-mail.
Don't reveal unless you need to as you're potentially a strong town role.

[wgeurts]

It's not proven scum if claimed later at all.
Town can quite understandably not claim double voter as well. You're not the almighty god here.

[wgeurts]

So, my actual reads after rereading the game.

BlackestMagic -

Null-Town

So far there has been very little content from this slot and there posts feel rather disconnected at the moment. There's a lot of commenting here and there but not a lot of bite, and definitely no scum hunting at the moment. Despite all this there's nothing really scummy in their posts as of now, if this continues all game however I may have to rethink.

Questions:

Have you finished catching up?
What are your thoughts on LQ?
What made you possibly scum read titus in post 356?

FireKari -

Light-Scum

This slot has really just been posting fluff right from the start and I still haven't figured if yukari is a clever troll or is serious about all this weird confusing gibberish they post. Not to mention in post 134 they were town reading LQ and then later in post 189 they just naked vote him opportunistically with the reasoning consisting of "die scum". They have parked there ever since and have yet to provide reasoning, one of those that could be scum on a possible LQ town "anon"-wagon.

Questions

Why were you originally town-reading LQ and what caused the change?
What are your thoughts on matters right now?

Klingoncelt -

Null-Scum

So her first post (98) was already weird as not only is it contradictory it also feels really distanced, I fail to see why town would make that post. He just coasts-by until his reads list in post 452. It's really easily flung together, what makes it worse is that she doesn't actually vote any of the two scum reads she states in it. This lax, go with the flow attitude is not looking good in my eyes. The only thing that raises doubts with me is that she's probably over-extended in too many games. 8-12! That's way too many for me to manage so it may be affecting his play as well.

Questions

Why are you not voting anybody despite having stated scum-reads?
What are your reads after recent events?

Ranger -

Light-Scum

So let's start with Ranger, he comes in marks me with some unexplained thing and votes Brantz. His next post 125 and 126 he votes LQ without any reason what so ever, it feels a little opportunistic as LQ was under quite a bit of pressure around then. His scum read on Brantz is also complete crumpets as that slot hasn't actually really produced any content worth pushing yet. Apparently his "felt forced", go check post 9 to see why this really is rather far-fetched.
He then tunnels LQ while the pressure remains to exist on him. All the way up to post 748 where he suddenly creates a reads-list identical to titus' containing no reasoning for the reads at all. His 768 is also horrifically scummy, it looks likes he's setting himself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch. He's not pushing, he's not making his own reasons and he's definitely not explaining any of his actions. I also call complete bollux that he was scum reading me early game and thus marked me, he stated all other scum reads but happened to leave me unmenioned?

Questions

Could you explain in your own words how everyone you listed as scum is actually scum in your eyes?
Why did you originally scum read LQ?
What do you think or Brantz now? He's not changed anything since you last scum read him but he's suddenly null.
Why where you originally scum reading me?
What does the mark do!? You may have fucked over town with a role that you could have used better.

Elibern -

Town

So I'm still a little confused about what he was doing early game. Was it some sort of gambit to try and catch scum? If so what conclusions did you draw?
Anyway, I like his play and he's been scum hunting. His thought process seems clear and natural so he can sit in my town pile for now.

Questions

Can you explain to me what on earth you were doing early-game and what results it gave you?

Jeanne -

Light-Town

Honestly, I don't know really know what to make of this slot. However after my reread I'm left with the feeling that it's town, for some weird gut reason. The whole lunatic fruit thing now makes sense so that's no longer an issue for me. I'm going to come back to this slot later as I want to sort it more firmly.

Titus -

Scum

So titus' first push on LQ is crumpets and right now she is using faulty logic to justify reads made by the wacky gambit thing she pulled off while disrepping the person speaking out against her reasoning she's applied to it. Then we have her pushing too much to look town. I had originally waved away my initial suspicions and RR does have a strong point against her. I've made up my mind, this isn't the town titus I know and I see the similarities to her scum game. Unless her town play has changed dramatically it's not this, it feels off and just like the last game I was right I'm going to trust my instinct and gut.

Reasonably Rational -

Light-Town

Their early game play was a bit lacking however their recent posts are looking a lot better and their logic is good. There's also drixx being his bitter self which tends to point to him being town, I could go on and give examples of why I think they're town if you want but I've summarised it here.

Brantz -

Null

Almost no content and almost nothing alignment indicative from this slot with a total of 3 posts. Null.

LQ -

Light-Town

Explained before. Hasn't changed.

Pistach -

Null-Town

This slot doesn't have a lot of content and I'd like to see more posts from them but they're leaning town for me.

Suzune -

Town

Suzune's early scepticism of Elibern's weirdness was pretty towny and her thoughts throughout the game seem natural. I can see a town-motivation in her posts.

Honestly my detail has become less throughout this post as I've gotten bored of making it so just ask me on things I'm missing/you want to know.

[wgeurts]

So people who read other people town won't even care if those people turn out as scum. They'll be like 'but I read them as town.....'. Same goes for vice versa.

I am done with this. In the last game I played, town let themselves be manipulated far too easily, and same thing is happening in this one. >.>

If they flip scum I'll do some VCA, hunt for some possible associatives and if it's end-game; reread.
What's going wrong?
Also trust wins games, if town don't take a leap of faith at times it's hard for them to win and they will kill themselves.

[wgeurts]

LQ, his thoughts don't seem false and the whole early game gambit was pretty good.
Also Jeanne, who do you think is scum?
What do you think of me?
I want to sort you and I think conversing with you will help

[wgeurts]

Well nevermind what you think of me
And yes, trust can backfire. Hence it's called a "leap of faith", you're not certain and we all make mistakes at times. Doesn't mean we should never try, it's like having a car crash once and never driving again. Town blocs win games, sometime's they will backfire but those other times...

[wgeurts]

Why are you scum reading me?

[wgeurts]

Because you're trusting LQ blindly and refuse to even think he could be scum under any circumstances.

i'm not, I have yet to be convinced he's scum and I definitely wouldn't town bloc him though. Also, because people disagree with your stances doesn't make them scum, it can just mean you simply disagree and we are both town.

[wgeurts]

Why do you think he is scum?

[wgeurts]

I started thinking that when Titus confirmed that my assessment that she gets angrier when chances of lynch were more likely and LQ said that his point still stands. A town player wouldn't say something after my assessment was confirmed by her.

You know titus isn't some god? And if you trust nothing then why this?
What are your own reasons?

[wgeurts]

And then there's a fact that when I gut read, I am some sort of a monster in his eyes, yet when you gut read, he sees you as some sort of saint. Either he's biased much or you're his scumbuddy.

Could you point this out as I've missed this?
Also, even if you're town not all that scum read you are scum. They may just be mistaken.

[wgeurts]

Also, you say Titus isn't a God, yet you are acting as if LQ is a God. Such a hypocrite.

How?
I have him as only just town and haven't done anything he's requested nor copied his reads.
He's not a strong town read of mine

[wgeurts]

Also if you're only voting LQ cus titus was in some manner then your current scum read of titus should logically mean you town read LQ.
Also there ARE ALWAYS MISTAKES! period.
People mislynch constantly, town can only mislynch if town made mistakes. Your logic is faulty.

[wgeurts]

You still have him as town read, allowing him to manipulate you easily, if you are town. Don't make the mistake I made in that game.

Let him try, the second you spot him doing that tell me and I'll shove a vote up his ass.
The difference between you and me is that I try to learn from mistakes and thus lower the chances of them.
You've fully removed yourself and will therefore never progress. Mistakes happen, get over them and learn!

[wgeurts]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

That's what I'm saying, her logic is flawed

[wgeurts]

She's scum reading LQ because you got angry or something, but now she's scum reading you she invalidiates her reasoning

[wgeurts]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

Who's this directed at?

[wgeurts]

Also, newsflash, you did copy his reads before the thread lock. You stated I am scum and were ready to lynch me.

Eta: I learned from that mistake, and what I have learned is not to trust anyone. FYI, the rest of you trust others too easily. It will end in disaster, I should know, cos it happened to me, by Shiro.

So because we happened to share a read I was following him?
Then you should apply this logic to a lot more people besides me. Others have scum read you

[wgeurts]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

That's what I'm saying, her logic is flawed

Logic is flawed on why she is voting you (OMGUS); doesn't mean she's wrong on you wking LQ.

Wking?

[wgeurts]

I'm not bloody copying LQ, my gawd

[wgeurts]

Also jeanne, it happened once.
I can give you 10 games that won by town bloc for every one lost by it.

[wgeurts]

But it is true,
Scum use it because it is true.
It's not about never making a mistake as that's impossible, it's about learning to make as little as possible. You got manipulated twice, that happens but the best way to handle it is to learn. How can you have any town reads at all?
Town reading someone indicates you trust them to a certain extent.
I trust my town reads, doesn't mean I'm right and I'm always open to changing them.

[wgeurts]

Never said that, LQ is one of my weaker town reads so not really.
Me. Well to me I am and to you I'm not, same applies vise-versa.
I'm not saying you should town read me or LQ, I'm trying to sort you and I'm getting a pretty good idea.

[wgeurts]

Jeanne, work with me and if I start manipulating you happily vote me and hang me alive.
Who are you town reading?

[wgeurts]

Then why aren't you voting him? If he isn't really your town read, shouldn't you at least pressure him a bit?

ETA: Elbirn and Suzune.

He's a weak town read, not a scum read.
I'll pressure people when I see fit, right now I'm focusing on you.

[wgeurts]

But you are acting just like Shiro did back then, trying to pull me in with your lies and then suffocate me with carbon monoxide.

Then I'm one hell of a nasty bastard
No. Just work with me, discuss your reads at the minimum. Even if I'm scum that can't do you any harm and I'm not going to ask you to do something.

[wgeurts]

RR?
What do you know of me?
Also titus, your welcome for punishing someone trolling your wiki-page.

[wgeurts]

Then I lied to you, all in all this is just a game. Sharing reads can do no harm.

[wgeurts]

And then there's a fact you casually dismiss the fact that you could lie to me. Sorry, but that doesn't help changing my opinion of you.

That's fine, time will tell.
I can't make you believe I'm town, though I've given you something to ponder.

Also. The mark is real, I get a PM saying I was marked.

[wgeurts]

If I were scum you would not be my target right now.

[wgeurts]

Does it even fudge matter?
You're acting irrational and I've tried to reach out to you. I got the result I wanted however you've completely locked yourself off from everyone and I believe it's going to harm your play and eventually. How you're acting right now will make scum smooth-sail you to late-game if you're town as that's when trust is most important.
You made a mistake or others made you the victim of their manipulation, the solution isn't to through the powerful tool of trust out the window. No. You learn from them and try to lower the chances of it happening again! Will it happen again? Yes. But more often than not it will aid you, read that thread mastin posted in MD.
Honestly, I'm fed up with trying to get you to see this. If you have nothing more to say nor do I, unless you choose that it's worth actually conversing with so we can try to figure out each other's alignments.

[wgeurts]

Ninja'd by RR.
You suggesting a PL?

[wgeurts]

Also why am I town?

[wgeurts]

Whatever

[wgeurts]

Back to watching DC. I tried to help you, but you are too stubborn to realize not everything is how you say it is.

Ever realised same applies to you?

[wgeurts]

Unlike you, however, I have a foundation for my doubts. I have seen that scum could mislead other people. And the fact that you said that you wouldn't target me right now if you were scum, means you could still do it in the future.

1. So have I, however the difference is I strive to lower the chances of getting mislead in order to aid the town through town blocs. Yeah I'll get mislead now and then, I'm not perfect, so what? I learn from it.
2. Blah blah hypotheticals blah blah assumptions blah blah

[wgeurts]

1. Well, the only way to absolutely avoid them is to trust only myself.
2. You know who the last person to say that was? Titus, who turned out to be scum.......

So you'd rather not drive a car because you may crash?
Same logic.

[wgeurts]

And then there's a fact that you're about to lynch a powerful townie which you conveniently forgot. Just like Shiro in last game. And the fact that you're trying to get me to dance to your tune. Just like Shiro in last game. Well, same old trick won't work on me again. Be original scum if you want to fool me.

Also what the hell are you thinking with saying your a powerful PR?
Unless you're trying to draw the night-kill?
I'll let the scum now wifom over you whatever you are.

Also I'm going to laugh later when I guaranteed show up town, hopefully then you'll see how much you hinder yourself.

Finally: LQ ISN'T 100% TOWN WHERE THE HECK HAVE I SAID THIS ONCE I'VE SAID HE'S A WEAK TOWN READ WHICH MEANS "I NOT SURE AND I WOULDN'T BET MY MONEY ON IT BUT IF I'M LEANING TO HIM BEING TOWN"
Maybe ragecaps will get through to you

[wgeurts]

The RAGECAPS were so rage they couldn't even ENGLISH

[wgeurts]

And then there's a fact that you assert that you shouldn't be lynched since you're town, but you are perfectly willing to lynch me who is also town. I don't understand how your brain works, but it's clearly a double standard.

I don't want to lynch you right now :/

[wgeurts]

Don't even bother, she won't listen

[wgeurts]

His reads list was a literal copy of titus'.

*Her.

And actually, free info.
Marking's bad for the marked.
So I had you pegged as anti-town from the beginning. (I wouldn't have marked you otherwise.) LicketyQuickety has been a scumread of mine ever since I read his posting. BRantz was my first vote.

Starting here, I call absolute crumpets that you had formed a read on us from the following posts:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Titus cause its the right thing to do.

So it begins.
VOTE: Titus
Because she was scum/Serial Killer in my last game.

What you watching?

Nothing, I just really wanna be friends with titus this game. We had a neighborhood last game and that was pretty cool.

Except then she was scum ;_;


Moving on

I'm really disappointed not a single person took my scum claim seriously. Like did no one notice that? I did it twice.

I'M SCUM LYNCH ME

Aye, Aye, Cap'n!

VOTE: Elbirn

There is literally nothing alignment indicative in these posts (besides possibly Brantz second post, but it's so weak it's not enough to "peg someone as scum") so even if you "are not an amateur" there's nothing you can draw from them unless you're psychic which if you are please let me know. You can't see something in nothing, no matter how good you are. Also realise how that your reads were so weak at this point that you fudge marking me has a beyond high chance of being wrong?! If you are town you just made a hideously stupid move, you should have waited a lot longer.

In 126, I said I had my eye on a couple of other players. You were one, Blackest Magic was the other.

Lie.
You said in that post that "they weren't worth pursuing" however you now claim to have had such a strong read on me that I was even worth marking with some "bad thing". Also it's easy to claim "BM" was one of those now, I'll take your words with a grain of salt as it's already clear you're either incapable of thinking how to use a role logically and conf-biased beyond belief or you're scum worming your way out.
Next.

I'll admit the RR suspicion didn't come until 446, but that was the final point of my reads. In short? You were scum since my first post, BRantz was a suspect since my first post, LQ was a scumread in my

Ooooh, a contradiction!
You say I was scum in your first post but not worth pursuing (meaning it's hella weak) but still worth marking because I'm so obviously scum? Thank you for doing my work for me as you've caught yourself in your own words.

second post who I have voted since my third, Blackest Magic in that same post, and RR in 446. My reads haven't changed much since then, aside from BRantz moving to be less likely and you to be more.

I'm sorry there's definitely no "blackest magic" in post 126 and if you're still reading brantz as scum for what he's posted you don't know how to form a proper read. The wgeurts scum read is also bullshit as you said it's not worth pursuing and you even said somewhere I was null.

When it comes to the townreads, you'd have to be blind not to see FireKari and Elbirn at the very minimum as town, with me also seeing Titus, Jeanne, and Suzune as town.

Really?
Just so happens almost half of those are scum reads of mine. Explain why they are town and I'm blind tyvm.

And my weaker townreads? More based off of not seeing anything scum rather than strongly seeing something town.

That's called a null read friend.

Similarity to any other player's reads is therefore purely coincidental, or if anything, an effort on

their

part to copy

me

.

Other's gave reasons for their reads, you haven't so really it wouldn't appear so.
Next post.

[wgeurts]

So let's start with Ranger,

he

This was very obviously pre-typed in a PT, at some prior point to my 817.
Now what kind of player would have access to a PT, hmm?

Wut?
Where the hell are you drawing this conclusion from? This is some serious conf-bias or just scum crumpets.
I mess up pronouns all the town, I've been corrected in almost every game I'm in. Sometimes I check, sometimes I don't.

His next post 125 and 126 he votes LQ without any reason what so ever, it feels a little opportunistic as LQ was under quite a bit of pressure around then.

I don't do opportunism, as explained in 138.

He doesn't do opportunism guys, there's absolutely no way he's lying and he's even got "proof"; he must be town. Lol, this isn't even an argument for you being town and is honestly rather scummy.

LicketyQuickety was my vote for one simple reason: most of his posting was utterly devoid of a town process. (Note that when I voted LQ, I was not caught up in the thread. I post as I catch up.) I'd be lying if I said LQ's posting was all scum; there was

one

brief section of the game where LQ put up a good show, but given that his content before

and

after that time period was and is still bad, it was exactly that: nothing but a show.

Well, could you go grab a few of his posts were he was "devoid of town play" and explain how it's so? Also saying what that "one" town thing was would help. Anyone can make a statement and can look convincing, getting proof is the real work though and is where scum slip.

His scum read on Brantz is also complete crumpets as that slot hasn't actually really produced any content worth pushing yet.

This is subjective and you should know it. RVS content never is irrelevant.

RVS content is almost always fully irrelevant and almost always void of alignment indicative stuff. Beyond VCA there's not much to be drawn from it and VCA requires flips which we don't yet have.

On my home site, we continue to scrutinize D1 (which is usually almost all RVS aside from some maybe-serious pushes near the very end) throughout the entirety of the game. I did not like BRantz's entry.

And could you give us examples from your home site where it was actually correct?
It's like pushing someone because they made a joke.

All the way up to post 748 where he suddenly creates a reads-list identical to titus' containing no reasoning for the reads at all.

Titus's reads were a copy of mine, not vice-versa. This is easily shown by linking posts like 213 (where I say I was not marking someone I thought was town), 441 (me stating my suspicion on BM), 443 (where my scumread is explicit on BM), 444 (where I say Elbirn is town, RR is null but possible, and BRantz is my third suspicion next to BM and LQ), 446 (where I say RR is possibly scum), and 448 (where I explain in more detail the possibility of RR being scum).

This all shows very, very clearly where my reads were coming from in my reads list. To say I copied it from another is ridiculous. They're my reads. What kind of horrible player do you think I am, to need to copy the reads of another player? I repeat: not a newb. Titus sharing the reads is either coincidence or effort on her part to copy mine. This is especially true given that I post as I read rather than catching up all at once and making a giant wall.

Destroyed in my last post.

His 768 is also horrifically scummy, it looks likes he's setting himself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch.

What.
Me trying to

lead the town and spearhead a LQ lynch

.

is rather scummy yes. Especially since you'd been parked on him all game.

Is somehow me trying to set myself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch?
I want LQ lynched. Titus and Jeanne were both off the wagon, tunneling each other. I wanted them both on the wagon, so I asked. In what twisted realm can you possibly interpret that as trying to lynch anyone rather than me trying to lynch one specific person?

I also call complete bollux that he was scum reading me early game and thus marked me, he stated all other scum reads but happened to leave me unmenioned?

Because my mark did the speaking for me about my read on you. The mark is a negative thing for the marked. Therefore, by implication, me marking you would reveal my scumread on you the minute I flipped. (Because I would never mark a player I thought was town.)

Destroyed last post.

Could you explain in your own words how everyone you listed as scum is actually scum in your eyes?

When I feel like it, yes. But for you and RR, the current strength of my read comes from how you both voted during the anonymous voting session, along with your reactions immediately after that. There was things before that made me have my eye on you two (your RVS posting being just as bad as Brantz's, some of RR's posting), but it was that which really (re)created the scumreads.

*avoids explaining any of his scum reads even more blatantly and only gives some vague explanation*

What do you think or Brantz now? He's not changed anything since you last scum read him but he's suddenly null.

There can't be five scum in the game. Heck, there can't even be four, but I'm still suspicious of both you and RR in spite of there being room for only one of you in the scumteam. (Because BM and LQ both occupy strong spots that will not be changing.) You said it yourself: BRantz hasn't done much of anything in the game and has little to be read off of. While I had an initial scumread there, it is based off of things you yourself explicitly said were weak-at-best, and you're absolutely right. So, as a result, BRantz moved up to null when thanks to the stuff I talk about responding to quote above this one, you and RR moved down.

What does the mark do!?

My secret. To find out, you'll either have to rolecop me or kill me.

All-in-all, this post has almost-entirely backwards reads.

[wgeurts]

Yes please do, gut reads are a thing!

[wgeurts]

That last post is rather far fetched.

[wgeurts]

Your not masons, otherwise you wouldn't have voted em

[wgeurts]

So just because I have voted them, I cannot be in masonry/neighbourhood with them, thus I must be scum? So much for thinking of every possibility. This last statement of yours means you do indeed follow LQ and what he says goes.

I think you're town, and most likely neighbours if one of the above but even that is seriously unlikely seeing titus role an your need to communicate in-thread.

[wgeurts]

I can't disprove your neighbours. I'm saying it's unlikely otherwise you wouldn't of needed a secret code in-thread and titus message thing wouldn't be needed. That's my evidenve for my thoughts.
Your turn: prove I didn't start as informed with all the scum and I can track everyone each night. You can't just disprove something like this.

[wgeurts]

Is 1001 aimed at me or LQ?

[wgeurts]

Like really where did you pick the "You're scum" up from in my post?
It's like I'm dealing with a schizophrenic person with trust-issues.

[wgeurts]

LQ is spiralling down the ladder of towniness in these posts.

[wgeurts]

Yeah, but she claimed something else.

[wgeurts]

I am an informed messaging townie that can send messages during the day. There are other methods of communicating outside the thread. The fruit is my method of communicating with my block to counteract an uber powerful anti-town role.

There is a role that makes all players vote within 24 hours by pm. It terminates the day after that. All votes are anonymous and cannot be detected by any means.

To counteract this role, we're voting Jeanne or LQ when this happens.

[wgeurts]

Is me indirectly referencing them not enough?
I think you're town, quote this if you have read that!
If you were a neighbour why was the fruit-code/farmer thing needed as you could of talked out of sight?
As well as titus claiming messenger.

[wgeurts]

Isnt that her messaging?
Also if what you say is true there's likely 1 scum in that hood.

[wgeurts]

Are you a neighbour, let's be direct?

[wgeurts]

LQ, everyone is a PR this game.

[wgeurts]

Why couldn't titus message the plan?
Are you a neighbour?

[wgeurts]

CanCan you are/remove players at will?

[wgeurts]

Fudge phone autocorrect and predicted text?
Can you add/remove at will?

[wgeurts]

I DIDN'T WANT A QUESTION MARK THERE

[wgeurts]

Have you considered we could be town

[wgeurts]

Have you considered I could be town?

I think you are town for the sixth time.
I THINK YOU ARE TOWN

[wgeurts]

So, my actual reads after rereading the game.

BlackestMagic -

Null-Town

So far there has been very little content from this slot and there posts feel rather disconnected at the moment. There's a lot of commenting here and there but not a lot of bite, and definitely no scum hunting at the moment. Despite all this there's nothing really scummy in their posts as of now, if this continues all game however I may have to rethink.

Questions:

Have you finished catching up?
What are your thoughts on LQ?
What made you possibly scum read titus in post 356?

FireKari -

Light-Scum

This slot has really just been posting fluff right from the start and I still haven't figured if yukari is a clever troll or is serious about all this weird confusing gibberish they post. Not to mention in post 134 they were town reading LQ and then later in post 189 they just naked vote him opportunistically with the reasoning consisting of "die scum". They have parked there ever since and have yet to provide reasoning, one of those that could be scum on a possible LQ town "anon"-wagon.

Questions

Why were you originally town-reading LQ and what caused the change?
What are your thoughts on matters right now?

Klingoncelt -

Null-Scum

So her first post (98) was already weird as not only is it contradictory it also feels really distanced, I fail to see why town would make that post. He just coasts-by until his reads list in post 452. It's really easily flung together, what makes it worse is that she doesn't actually vote any of the two scum reads she states in it. This lax, go with the flow attitude is not looking good in my eyes. The only thing that raises doubts with me is that she's probably over-extended in too many games. 8-12! That's way too many for me to manage so it may be affecting his play as well.

Questions

Why are you not voting anybody despite having stated scum-reads?
What are your reads after recent events?

Ranger -

Light-Scum

So let's start with Ranger, he comes in marks me with some unexplained thing and votes Brantz. His next post 125 and 126 he votes LQ without any reason what so ever, it feels a little opportunistic as LQ was under quite a bit of pressure around then. His scum read on Brantz is also complete crumpets as that slot hasn't actually really produced any content worth pushing yet. Apparently his "felt forced", go check post 9 to see why this really is rather far-fetched.
He then tunnels LQ while the pressure remains to exist on him. All the way up to post 748 where he suddenly creates a reads-list identical to titus' containing no reasoning for the reads at all. His 768 is also horrifically scummy, it looks likes he's setting himself up to vote whoever the town ends up deciding to lynch. He's not pushing, he's not making his own reasons and he's definitely not explaining any of his actions. I also call complete bollux that he was scum reading me early game and thus marked me, he stated all other scum reads but happened to leave me unmenioned?

Questions

Could you explain in your own words how everyone you listed as scum is actually scum in your eyes?
Why did you originally scum read LQ?
What do you think or Brantz now? He's not changed anything since you last scum read him but he's suddenly null.
Why where you originally scum reading me?
What does the mark do!? You may have fucked over town with a role that you could have used better.

Elibern -

Town

So I'm still a little confused about what he was doing early game. Was it some sort of gambit to try and catch scum? If so what conclusions did you draw?
Anyway, I like his play and he's been scum hunting. His thought process seems clear and natural so he can sit in my town pile for now.

Questions

Can you explain to me what on earth you were doing early-game and what results it gave you?

Jeanne -

Light-Town

Honestly, I don't know really know what to make of this slot. However after my reread I'm left with the feeling that it's town, for some weird gut reason. The whole lunatic fruit thing now makes sense so that's no longer an issue for me. I'm going to come back to this slot later as I want to sort it more firmly.

Titus -

Scum

So titus' first push on LQ is crumpets and right now she is using faulty logic to justify reads made by the wacky gambit thing she pulled off while disrepping the person speaking out against her reasoning she's applied to it. Then we have her pushing too much to look town. I had originally waved away my initial suspicions and RR does have a strong point against her. I've made up my mind, this isn't the town titus I know and I see the similarities to her scum game. Unless her town play has changed dramatically it's not this, it feels off and just like the last game I was right I'm going to trust my instinct and gut.

Reasonably Rational -

Light-Town

Their early game play was a bit lacking however their recent posts are looking a lot better and their logic is good. There's also drixx being his bitter self which tends to point to him being town, I could go on and give examples of why I think they're town if you want but I've summarised it here.

Brantz -

Null

Almost no content and almost nothing alignment indicative from this slot with a total of 3 posts. Null.

LQ -

Light-Town

Explained before. Hasn't changed.

Pistach -

Null-Town

This slot doesn't have a lot of content and I'd like to see more posts from them but they're leaning town for me.

Suzune -

Town

Suzune's early scepticism of Elibern's weirdness was pretty towny and her thoughts throughout the game seem natural. I can see a town-motivation in her posts.

Honestly my detail has become less throughout this post as I've gotten bored of making it so just ask me on things I'm missing/you want to know.

[wgeurts]

I've had you as town for almost 200 posts which as fifth of the game

[wgeurts]

You do realise LQ could be town?
That so could I?
That you 4 aren't conf-town?
There there could be scum amongst you?
That they may be fooling you the way you fear and try to prevent?
Because you can also make mistakes?
As we all do?

Stop using pre flip associatives and basing assumptions off assumptions. You have potential but you are spewing nonsense.
Consider I may be town while town reading LQ, that LQ isn't conf scum and that I may just be trying to help you?
Rant over

[wgeurts]

There is such a thing as real life. You know, many of people here declare V/LA due to the fact that their real life is important. Even Drixx did so in this very thread, and yet the concept that I could have real life issues is alien to you.

How can I know if you don't say so?
Anyway this isn't the place to discuss that though I'd happily do so elsewhere.
He may just be mistaken town as well, though his last posts have been bad.
What he does is his problem, how am I responsible?

[wgeurts]

I dyfuvuvucifydyfuvibodicuvivivlvlvodidifvldosshcfhjhfshjf45<}hfhjdu

[wgeurts]

I seriously am not going to fucking bother anymore
Don't expect responses from me until you get your shit together

[wgeurts]

LQ that was seriously insensitive

[wgeurts]

Titus, you're wrrroooonnnngg.
Like really wrong.

[wgeurts]

Am I now town?

[wgeurts]

MOD: Can we have a VC and some prods?

[wgeurts]

Possibbly scum, nothing particulary town but nothing that stands out and makes me think wow that's scummy.

[wgeurts]

LQ, everyone is a PR this game.

For obvious reasons, nobody should respond to this until a massclaim.
But if massclaim comes to pass and this is shown to be accurate...what does that tell you about LQ?

...Exactly. Scum who doesn't know everyone has a role.

I must also note I absolutely

hate

the tag-team wgeurts has with LQ against Jeanne. It pressured Jeanne into revealing info she really didn't need to reveal.

This role-madness, we all have a PR. LQ said he tends to scum read all PR's

[wgeurts]

You do realise LQ could be town?
That so could I?
That you 4 aren't conf-town?

All true.

At least two of the three are incredibly likely to be true, though. I seriously like a {Titus, Jeanne, Elbirn, Suzune} townbloc. I personally added in FireKari because I hold a

hard

townread on them. I hate the attempts to break the townbloc up, and I think they are driven by scum's fear that they can't break it.

I'm convinced LQ is scum. I do owe explanation for this, but none of his posting is good. He lacks actual scumhunting; he's just throwing random accusations out there that he doesn't even believe in.

The only one I really see any reason to doubt is my read on you. You could just be bad town not realizing how horrendously wrong you are, I will admit that, but you're not off my radar.

Lol it's not a town bloc, a town bloc for one is widely town read and don't scum read each other.
Stop spewing nonsense.

[wgeurts]

Also titus' play isn't brilliant, we literally drew nothing from it.

[wgeurts]

You know what fuck it.

Kill: ranger

[wgeurts]

There is literally no fucking way you're town.

[wgeurts]

Any last words?

[wgeurts]

Okay... I am literally done trying now. I will not interact with you for at minimum at least the rest of the day.

Woo, someone joined me! Maybe if enough people do this she will be forced to notice even town dislike her logic. Anyway it was a reaction test in a fitting location and sadly it yielded nothing, I was trying to get something from Ranger.

[wgeurts]

Also Jean me you up for a little bet?
I'll vote LQ and if he flips town you have to sheep me with your vote all of tommorow, failing to do so would either show you're likely scum or you lack honour/honesty.
Let's put your certainty to the test. Also, do you have some ability which has lead to a scum result on LQ or something?

[wgeurts]

And if I'm town?
There's a lot of people parking me in their scum reads but not going for me as other's aren't. I'd predict a quick wagon on me if someone started one. I'm almost like a plan B.

[wgeurts]

Well if there's a cop guilty it's best to out it right?
Or am I missing some change in site meta?
Don't tell me what got him caught but if he's undeniably scum and I'm mistaken I'd like to know that.

[wgeurts]

It was a reaction yest? How was it bad?
Depending on how he reacted he could of let slip his alignment.

[wgeurts]

Test*

[wgeurts]

I'm going to assume you're used to playing with idiots who create clear associatives and intent during what is, essentially, the least meaningful part of the game.

You would be very wrong, then.

It's not easy to vomit out a reads list that is consistent with prior play and which accounts for changes in your opinion which may have occurred.

Yeah, which is why I don't bother most of the time. My reads have been changing in a very, very easy to track manner. My thoughts have been transparent. I might not always share the thoughts (me not saying who my scumreads were that I didn't want to push early-on, me not wanting to say what marking does), but what thoughts I

do

share could not be more clear.

lol at that last past you claim that your reads have been static all game

[wgeurts]

And here's what people say in a nutshell.

RR: LQ is town because I cannot see any scumminess from him
wgeurts: LQ is town because I say so.

You really don't read my posts do you?
Anyway want the deal?
If LQ scum you don't have to sheep vote me so if I'm his partner I gain nothing.

[wgeurts]

And there's also the 'I am 100% right and she's 100% wrong, therefore LQ cannot be scum' thing going on.

Who?

[wgeurts]

Nobody in the game except LQ is calling you scum.
That's 1 person.
The problem with you is that you're not explaining your reads, you can convince with evidence and reason but emotions won't cut it. Gut reads won't convince anyone else even if they are legit.

But deal or no deal?

[wgeurts]

And there's a fact that you are still ignoring the question I posted. Of course you are, because answering it would cause you to slip up.

Mind quoting it?
I've missed it

[wgeurts]

Also, all it takes is one person to post some kind of evidence they pulled out of their butt and other people would follow like sheep and be like 'lol lol lol' towards those who show any form of disagreement.

Examples? You're not providing counter-evidence so your arguments are the weak ones here.

I quoted it like 3 times. The fact that you cannot find it means you're either too stupid or are deliberately avoiding finding it.

Sorry, I can't find it. Quote it and I'll answer ASAP

[wgeurts]

Wgeurts is weird. I don't know why they are defending me so strongly. IDK could just be because of going against popular opinion, not sure.

Quote where I do this, i literally called your last posts awful

[wgeurts]

@wgeurts Here's the question

Why not use our abilities to full extent in order to catch scum?

Please do, just say shenanigans have confirmed him as scum.
just like RR has claimed I'm town for (reasons)

[wgeurts]

Just vaguely say that something done via your role has confirmed him as scum.

[wgeurts]

No I'm wondering if the reason jeanne is getting so frustrated is that she KNOWS LQ is scum because of something game-mechanic wise, if that's so I'm asking her to say so but not say how as that could reveal useful abilities

[wgeurts]

JEANNE DEAL OR NO DEAL?

[wgeurts]

If you're so convinced why not accept?

[wgeurts]

If you're so convinced why not accept?

Because I won't make a deal with someone who doesn't even bother to look at my case.

I did am I'm not convinced as I'll explain in a later post, if you're so certain he's scum my proposal only leads to your gain regardless of some case. Why the hesitation?

[wgeurts]

Am=and

[wgeurts]

Claiming now may help as let's face it, he's probably getting lynched anyway so doing it now rather than later could gain us some time.

[wgeurts]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

Are you more or less equal than us comrade?

[wgeurts]

Because he forgot or didn't make the connection like I did?

[wgeurts]

That's shizz. You are again trying to find reasons why he is not scum. You say he's not 100% town, so why defend him so blindly and not look at the possibility he's scum?

Well I did the same and I'm town so I'm stating a very possible possibility

[wgeurts]

?
The answer I gave is the one you're getting, I'm not just going to say what you want to hear.

[wgeurts]

Honestly I don't understand what the heck you're asking for as I've answered everything

[wgeurts]

RR thinks you're town I thought, and not everyone will read you as town even if you are town as everyone makes mistakes. Im town which proves this point (later)

[wgeurts]

LQ vote me with bright in your next 2 posts or I hammer.
Try me and see if I bite

[wgeurts]

Or two hours, whichever comes first

[wgeurts]

Can't you log in it?

[wgeurts]

Hmmm

[wgeurts]

Unless he's fake claimed a partner's role this is real

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Titus
Dragon join me you friendly animal.
Also I'll admit to sending a Pm early game to version asking for me to give the dog a bone to see what happens. In hind sight he probably just laughed at that.

[wgeurts]

If you flip town I swear I'll personally destroy LQ tommorow

[wgeurts]

Whatever, Titus you're next if this is a mislynch.
VOTE: LQ

[wgeurts]

I hammered

[wgeurts]

No need, LQ's even though I recon he's town

[wgeurts]

LQ's dead*

[wgeurts]

I'm not, however this will give us a tonne of associatives one way or another

[wgeurts]

You who wanted to oust Titus, Ranger and myself because we pegged your partner and were right on the money. The fact that one of us perished only drives the nail in deeper. She was killed by you, wasn't she?

Since when is Ranger part of you imaginairy town bloc?

[wgeurts]

JEANNE let me into the farm now so I can conf-town two of your scum reads.

[wgeurts]

I'm rereading the game again so await me to have PC access and I'll post some stuff.

[wgeurts]

He quite obviously is scum

[wgeurts]

Sorry Titus, paranoia is strong but the urge to lolhammer was stronger and it actually aided us this time.

[wgeurts]

Suzune, you, me and RR town bloc?
You can trust my word that he's town, and I'd Jeanne could let me in so I don't have to dump shenanigans in public she'll understand too. And I've got strong evidence and a shot tonne of crumbs to back it up.
Jeanne if she let's me in can be an honoury member of the bloc, the one we trust least but would still be surprised to see flip town as there are a lot of strong associative tells pointing to her being town which I'm picking up in my reread.
There are two scum left so making this bloc will win us this one way or another, me and RRR being the firmest town and Jeanne the least but still strong.

[wgeurts]

Got to love autocorrect doing a worse job than myself.
Suzune who are your scum reads?

[wgeurts]

Also I'm sad to admit I think I was wrong on my Ranger read. His playstyle and mine are very different and that seems to have caused clashes but I can and will present and strong case for him being town.

[wgeurts]

How are you inferring that Wgeurts is not reading the thread?

Because it's obvious he's not, and more importantly,

he was my target

.

That's great. You "marked" someone you know is Town?

I feel like there's a really important slip in this post but I can't wrap my head around it as everything else points to Ranger being town.

[wgeurts]

Okay and BM may well be scum, will place a vote here for now.
VOTE: Blackest Magic[/']

[wgeurts]

[quote="In post 1693, wgeurts"]Okay and BM may well be scum, will place a vote here for now.
VOTE: Blackest Magic

[wgeurts]

Firebringer, who are you scum reading?
And who are your town reads?

[wgeurts]

RR is confirmed town so you've got that right, lynch BM then Pistachi0n and we should be done here. If not pistachi0n then Klingoncelt

[wgeurts]

Also Titus if you're reading this I guess I now need to put in my signature I can't read you, same sadly applies to you

[wgeurts]

Shenanigans make it so, trust me. I don't say confirmed town unless a mod confirms it.

[wgeurts]

I'm starting to not like Wgeurts.

Dude, you got way too Towny-Leadery too fast.

As though you spent all night rehearsing for your new position.

Nope, not liking it at all.

That's because I believe this game is over and we have the means to do it quickly, only scum should fear this really. Me and RR are town, point.
Jeanne, want to bloc with me and RR?
Let me in the Farm and I'll explain all

[wgeurts]

Jeanne (I've fullcapped typed that so much my autocorrect has it listed) I will prove we are town if you let me in.

[wgeurts]

UNVOTE:
Forgot this

[wgeurts]

Only let me in.
What we have could get misused by scum!

[wgeurts]

I can, if I come in and don't prove shit lynch me. I'll even place a vote on myself until you let me in. I can prove shit and I will.
VOTE: wgeurts

[wgeurts]

Okay, I'll invite you, but if I see even slightest scum motivation from you, from my point of view, you're dead meat, RR.

Invite me

[wgeurts]

Also scum double voter is more common than town, especially in Varsoon games
Pr-edit: Why? The sooner we get this crap out of the way the sooner we can organise the town.

[wgeurts]

If you don't let us in ASAP you're hindering the town. What the bloody crumpets could go wrong? If I'm not scum and am town we create a game breaking town bloc and if I'm scum and don't prove crud I get lynched.

[wgeurts]

Only me

[wgeurts]

That's fine, look forward to moving this game forward

[wgeurts]

IF I'M SCUM I'LL ALSO EAT GRAPES AND FIGS

[wgeurts]

Of the four super town people as of now yeah. But I'd not bother lynching you unless all others were dead.
So am I in the farm yet or what