Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[buldermar]

Oh true, doh, I'm stupid ;D

[buldermar]

Here. Note that Bumi's N3 result is incorrect with what he's currently claiming.

I like the triplet of Bumi, Nacho, and Brood.

Thanks.

[buldermar]

Hmm. Two vigs in this game, one of which is BP? Mehdi, I really don't know if I can buy this. That seems so overpowered for town whereas a town vig and a BP SK would be reasonable.

[buldermar]

Hmm, that does make sense, scum is pretty stacked too.

[buldermar]

I wish I had a better grasp of balance in games with more than one scum team -_-

[buldermar]

I forgot: why is bumi confirmed?

[buldermar]

Why? Couldn't scum be doing what he is doing? The other scum team, that is.

[buldermar]

Or let me rephrase: why is it more likely that he is doing this as town than scum?

[buldermar]

Well dan, bt, s/r, etc could be but they'd be really dumb lynches. It's a case of his play looks town and now he's just given a guilty basically.

P-edit: Since he already looked town and the thought process that went in getting AV trapped look genuine.

I agree that he looks town, but can we agree that he is not confirmed like, for instance, Nacho is?

[buldermar]

Fuck you all I cannot tolerate this shit. You're going to lynch me anyway, eating up Bumi's bullshit pie.

Just DO NOT LET HIM WORM OUT OF IT later.
And for fuck's sake wait for mod to reply to me.

I sense great anger.

[buldermar]

I fucking hate it when people lie.

Understandable, as Bumi lying was what tricked you and got you caught.

[buldermar]

Then why didn't black scum kill me?

They were afraid that green scum might?

[buldermar]

Vifam you survived because Bumi protected you.

He did not.

[buldermar]

Then why didn't black scum kill me?

They were afraid that green scum might?

Sooooooooooo greenscum went for Avox instead

Yeah that makes the most sense, greenscum took the 50/50 with me not knowing Avox was scum at the moment, and blackscum figured I was gonna get NK'd either way so they didn't wanna bother with it

And avox survived because?...

[buldermar]

I'm actually caught up, I just keep referencing this and since it isn't current to Bumi's claim (as I mentioned last time I linked it) I screwed up since I momentarily forgot.

We all forgive you

[buldermar]

Because I saved him?

Right... that actually adds up to zero kills. What other options are there?

[buldermar]

Damn I love this game.

[buldermar]

Or that I guess

P-Edit I'm thinking Mehdi/AV and Mehdi/Mehdi are the only options

Are there any scum roles that are protected from night kills but cannot fakeclaim a similar town role and thus must claim, for instance, VT?

[buldermar]

Maybe Shinori and one other lurker is on the same scumteam and simply didn't write a target to the mod in time.

[buldermar]

Mehdi can't really be scum with the Maenara thing, though, unless I'm missing something.

[buldermar]

Given how long Shinori has been away, I think it is..

[buldermar]

Guys please stop posting we already have longest game just stop posting I'm trying to catch up and everytime; I finish a pg there is a new pg I think I'm getting a heart attack for the second day in a row halp.

Quit being lazy, we're discussing important stuff here! Like how cool this game is n shit.

[buldermar]

Zde why did you care as much to claim everything about getting shot if you're untargetable?

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

the RING

[buldermar]

- Quil just randomly gives someone a hat. Maybe someone we trust, e.g. Nacho.

NO, I WANT A HAT I ASKED FOR IT ALREADY

I promise I'll put in TONS OF EFFORT if I get a hat!!

Oh God no I want you vigged so you can stop posting.

Oh this must be the head that hates me... I always forget who's who, but why would I care anyway.

[buldermar]

Okay, so this basically confirms that Mehdi is scum.

He can't really be scum, only SK or town.

[buldermar]

Zde not sure what you read but the mod error thing has beenargued too.

Did the mod admit the mistake in the thread? To Meanara? Just to you?

Not in thread. Meanara has not confirmed/disconfirmed either.

[buldermar]

He's already at L-1?

Cool

I don't think he is.

[buldermar]

If Zdenek chooses to use his power he can protect Vifam.

@Mae: Well, I'm not scum. DGB is supposed to be killed by Mehdi. Mehdi himself is likely to be lynched at some point.

Phill isn't too important right now.

NO. Zdenek should NOT use his protection yet if he can't be killed anyway, that would be utterly retarded.

[buldermar]

Mod clarified. No mass ability, I wasn't blocked. VOTE: bumi

Good, then we can lynch you and know who to lynch tomorrow if you flip town.

[buldermar]

im doing the same thing i did with mehdi yesterday sending both mods a message if they dont read it with in the next 5 mins you're lying.

lol

[buldermar]

Zde can protect two people so who is he protecting besides vifam. Build he can have two targets an decide at night whether to protect or not but how is saving the power for later a good idea?

But he can only protect two people once right? Would be a waste to use the ability now that scum has low odds of targeting any one person. Much better postponing using it.

[buldermar]

how is saving the power for later a good idea?

The fewer amounts of people left, the higher odds of succesfully protecting any one person. Simple logic.

[buldermar]

Votecount 4.5

AurorusVox (9): Bumi, buldermar, Vifam, BT, mehdi2277, Alduskkel, Titan, Sunshine and Rainbows, Zdenek
mehdi2277 (4): DrippingGoofball, Maenara, BroodKingEXE, Sanjay
DrippingGoofball (1): Quilford
Bumi (1): AurorusVox
Alduskkel (0):
Sanjay (0):
Nachomamma8 (0):
BroodKingEXE (0):
Zdenek (0):
Vifam (0):
Phillammon (0):
Maenara (0):
Sunshine and Rainbows (0):
Quilford (0):
DeasVail(0):
buldermar (0):
ActionDan (0):
Titan (0):
DeltaWave (0):
Shinori (0):
BT (0):

Not Voting (6): ActionDan, DeltaWave, DeasVail, Phillammon, Nachomamma8, Shinori

11 to lynch.

Deadline is January 11th.

Well I guess he did get an answer from the mod, but it doesn't confirm him as town.

[buldermar]

@buld, so why didn't you wait for mod clarification when I said I was getting it?

Why I didn't unvote? Because you getting clarification isn't going to alter my vote anyway.

[buldermar]

when im the most obvious townie in the game.

rofl

[buldermar]

Assholes, all of you.

Congrats on longest game, btw.

On day 4.

With 21 players still alive.

You people are

assholes

.

p-edit: got ninja'd 4 times for this post holy crap

Cheers

[buldermar]

N2 I didn't get an action in.

@buld but it helps tomorrow. Buld is also scum.

Trolol. Okay kiddo.

[buldermar]

By the way this is going to reach 7000

8000 if we're lucky

I think 10k easily.

[buldermar]

And I'm pretty sure this day has a fucking crazy post / time ratio

About the same rate as comments on gangnam style on youtube.

[buldermar]

Vifam 2012-12-23 17:36:19 0 days 0 hours 696

GET ON MY LEVEL

I wonder who will be hated the most if I accept your challenge. You or me?

[buldermar]

Hammer plxxxxx

[buldermar]

Urgh if anymore people replace out no one is gonna want to join this game unless they're insane

... or savants with absurd reading abilities.

[buldermar]

I regret spamming the majority of this game now

You're full of shit, no you don't.

[buldermar]

Honestly we can give them a skimmed version of D4

We could but I think a confirmed town would need to write it.

[buldermar]

LE TOWN DEMANDS LE LYNCH NAU, YOUNG MAENARA

[buldermar]

Okay, fuck that, STATING INTENT TO HAMMER WHEN IT REACHES MIDNIGHT MY TIME IN APPROXIMATELY NINE MINUTES MERRY CHRISTMAS AV!

Lawl

[buldermar]

Important stuff:
Zdenek don't use your two protections tonight.
Vifam you know what to do.

[buldermar]

WHATEVER I WAS GREAT

Cheers

[buldermar]

Do we want Zdenek to tell us whether or not he used his power? I'm thinking no, since he's untargettable and not knowing hurts scum more than us.

We do not want him to tell us if he used his powers, as you correctly pointed out.

[buldermar]

i was gonna jump in here and yell at you guys for the av lynch, but
looks like there were actual reasons. cool.

Can we expect of you to catch fully up once your V/LA is over?

[buldermar]

Alright guys since I'm kind of lazy and this game is huge and I really don't want to iso too much I need your guys' help.
What are your reads on:
BT
buldermar
ActionDan
DeltaWave
Shinori
Quilford

Especially the first three. Their isos are just TOO LONG for me at this point. Especially buldermar.

AD was pushing me quite a lot early game for reasons I considered flawed, but I wasn't able to conclude whether he was aware of that or not.

[buldermar]

I agreed with most of the color readlist BT presented, so that's sort of an indirect town-tell to me personally.

[buldermar]

i was gonna jump in here and yell at you guys for the av lynch, but
looks like there were actual reasons. cool.

Can we expect of you to catch fully up once your V/LA is over?

my v/la is over.
you can't expect shit though.

That sucks... I was really looking forward to your opinion on last days events as things got sort of complicated.

[buldermar]

Shinori: weak scum

Could you elaborate on this?

[buldermar]

I'm convinced that there'll be some scum on the AV wagon, and I think Ald might be one.

Why are you convinced that there'll be some scum on the AV wagon? The AV lynch was happening regardless of the participation of scum or lack thereof.

[buldermar]

'cause it's multiball and he seemed scummy enough that members of either team might assume he was on the other and try to rack up the towncred.

So would town, making it no more scummy than townish to be on his wagon.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Maenara

Town Maenara is still pretty much impossible due to Mehdi's behavior. It'll also explain why he insists to not kill her.

Plus I remember thinking this is Black Scum. Don't remember why, but it'd be nice to finish them off now.

Well I guess it does make sense to lynch Maenara since we can instalynch Mehdi should she flip scum. However, if she flips town we gain absolutely no info.

[buldermar]

What are your reads on:
BT
buldermar
ActionDan
DeltaWave
Shinori
Quilford

Town
Town
Town
Null
Null
Town

Why are you providing an answer for a question the answer to which everyone knows what will be when coming from you?

[buldermar]

I'm convinced that there'll be some scum on the AV wagon, and I think Ald might be one.

Why are you convinced that there'll be some scum on the AV wagon? The AV lynch was happening regardless of the participation of scum or lack thereof.

I agree though. The Avox lynch happened way too fast, especially compared to the Medhi wagon people were stalling on. I might even do some ~*~votecount analysis~*~ since everyone else who would is dead or scum.

I'm looking forward. I disagree with the premise that the Avox lynch happened way too fast given the circumstances, though.

[buldermar]

So consider me super lazy. Reading only the stuff from this Day (and, really, super scared of trying to read any of the other 235 pages), I get that Mehdi is some form of claimed bulletproof vigilante (who shot DGB?) and, um, some shit about bombs that I can't tell if people are just fucking around with or actually believe.

I think you'd not miss out on much of significance if you just read the last day.

[buldermar]

I hate you scum.

I do not have an explanation for why Av didnt see me.

Titan

Vifam are you there?

That's weird because I explicitly explained how this scenario could be possible.

[buldermar]

Because I'm town. Why would I do what I did yesterday as scum? It was an honest mistake.

Vifam is basically confirmed town because that means the scum either no killed, or both attacked AV.

Fuck off with this bullshit WIFOM explanation. We're not lynching you because it's entirely possible that AV was blocked and got a "no result" message that could be a result of either a) a block or b) nobody visitting you and interpreted as either. But seing that you're trying to pull the "Why would I do what I did yesterday as scum" card really makes me want to lynch you.

[buldermar]

It coulda been black scum. Fate might have role copped me. They might think I was some investigation power since Robo wasn't too subtle about knowing Nacho is town for no reason other than knowing. A lot of things could happen.


Pedit: did you talk about anything last night?

Good, this is a much better and thoughtful explanation.

[buldermar]

I missed my night action due to holidays

laækdmfalsæfkmaæflam rage it's two fucking words that has to be send and takes less than a minut and possibly matters more than all of the posts you've made in this game combined in terms of win% gained from it.

[buldermar]

Right, then. Bumi is cleared via Vifam, and IIRC, Nacho is cleared via Bumi. Vifam isn't actually cleared, but his alignment has no influence on his statement, as I doubt that all three would be same faction. Assuming Mehdi is a serial killer, which he bloody well is, we've got 15 unconfirmed, IIRC, because there's no way hat-giving dad is gonna be scum. Certainly not Cult, because Cult is a freaking ridiculous suggestion in a 30-man multiball with a serial killer and a vigilante. Out of those remaining 15, we only need to find 3 more scum. Make it 14, actually, because Brood is as good as confirmed by having given a ring, unless we've somehow caught both greenscum there, which we haven't. Zdenek seems unlikely as scum even on his own, too, but be that as it may.

I suggest we lynch Mehdi today, because even if there was a snowball's chance in hell of him not being a serial killer, we don't need another kill. Another go at a lynch is way better. Besides, bulletproofs are going to generate a lot of WIFOM in LyLo, if we get that far, and he is bulletproof, no matter whether or not he's SK. For the same reason, I suppose we'll have to lynch Phil at some point, and honestly, I'm not really opposed thereto. I'd like to string up Aldusskel and Sanjay first, though, mainly because they've sorta soft-linked themselves, and I reckon they might both be greenscum - They've claimed VT too, which is obviously, looking at the claim list, where we'll find the majority, if not all, of the scum. And for the last blackscum, someone better than me at vote analysis should probably ISO the three dead ones.

VOTE: Mehdi

Ok, I don't think that scum-Maenara makes this post so I'm pretty inclined to consider her town. I disagree with the Mehdi lynch, though, because we can just simply control his night kills. If it ever happens that he refuses to kill someone we decide upon, we insta lynch him, and we can also just lynch him before LyLo in either case. At the moment I think Phil is todays best lynch, but lets wait for more people to check in first.

[buldermar]

Maenara's post is probably the most pro-town thing she has ever written in this game

I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing this. Creds to you, Bumi - not that you need it, I considered you town already.

[buldermar]

I'm sorry Mehdi.

Your death at least confirms Maenara

VOTE: Maenara

Something somewhere went terribly wrong.

[buldermar]

I am an idiot

VOTE: Mehdi

I swear I'm not this dumb in real life

... and then got fixed.

[buldermar]

Yes, but you also think Mehdi is town.

Not definitively, but I do think that, because we lose so much from lynching Mehdi when she's town, and gain relatively little from lynching her when she's a SK whose kills we control, I think we should just demand him killing who we decide upon and lynch him at any point in time where he refuses to do so. We got a scum killed last night that way, didn't we?

[buldermar]

I feel like I'm the only guy from S&R that has read pretty much everything in the game

Nah I've done so too..

[buldermar]

I missed my night action due to holidays

laækdmfalsæfkmaæflam rage it's two fucking words that has to be send and takes less than a minut and possibly matters more than all of the posts you've made in this game combined in terms of win% gained from it.

Yeah, it's all good though, nothing to get too worked up about.

I guess I'm just a tad bit more competitive than you are and your distribution of available time seemed weird to me. Plus we spend time considering who you should and should not protect.

[buldermar]

Except my theory is AV was Rb and his message was the same as not seeing a target

I brought up this theory before you did.

[buldermar]

Hey Medhi if we leave you around who are you gonna shoot

This is not the way to go about this.

We

decide who he is going to shoot if we leave him around.

[buldermar]

There's got to be at least one scum in that Cheery Dog (5) wagon.

Fate was in that wagon.

[buldermar]

Sanjay if he doesn't die today. If he's lynched then I honestly haven't decided. I'm not a fan of shooting ald and philla wouldn't help since I've already shot him so at least the bp part of the claim is true (I think the way he treated the claim makes him likely town too).

If we're not lynching you it's on the condition that your kills are controlled. This is not negotiable,

[buldermar]

I'm pretty sure I'm obvtown though.

To me you're pretty obvtown.

[buldermar]

So this looks legitmate:

Well Fate is most likely being too obviously manipulative to be scum, and he seems pretty sure that you should be lynched. I haven't voted for you yet though.

I agree it wouldn't be that bad, but I don't think it's very relevant as I'm not in any danger (as far as I know) of getting lynched, and neither are any of my townreads, except maybe Fate, but he's not a very strong one and I'd probably be willing to listen to reasoning for him being scum.

My reason for voting Fate-scum is probably not as strongly based upon the Sanjay thing as with others. It's mostly the fact that I don't really townread him, which is odd.

And fate not being in the read list in between without much of reason given from him for the read change.

Hmm this makes me want to retract the above statement.

[buldermar]

To me it's either Sanjay, DV, or Buld

Since when did you get a scum read on me? I don't recall you having brought that up previously and to me it makes little to no sense.

[buldermar]

IT GETS BETTER

Fate I hate with a fervent passion at the moment and I could DEFINITELY go for that as a lynch. The demeanour isn't helping, I'll admit, but the spamposting rather than content posting and AtAC (Appeal to AllCaps) as an argument form doesn't impress me in any way shape or form. The content feels off by gut as well, which combines into a scumread from where I'm standing. Brood hasn't made much of an impact on me either way as of yet, and I can't honestly remember what I thought of his ISO when I originally went over it. I'll go back and check now, if you like.

and then he goes and votes nacho instead of helping the fate wagon along anyway???

later he was totally ok with fatewagon but that nacho vote is just too blatant and he didn't explain shit about his priorities or anything

VOTE: Phillammon

I completely forgot about this but now I recall thinking something in the lines of what you point out. I'd be fine with lynching one of Phillammon and Sanjay and having Mehdi kill the other.

[buldermar]

Vifam who did you save last night?

According to him, he was on vacation and, as such, didn't have the one minut it takes to log in and send a night target. Yes I'm annoyed with it.

[buldermar]

i would probably go with lynch phill, shoot one of sanjay/dv (i strongly prefer sanjay)

I agree with this.

[buldermar]

Buldermar.

Buldermar.

There's, like, a multi-quote function on this site.

I don't get how it works.

[buldermar]

I'm guessing it was on me, honestly if he comes out saying he didn't save anyone that'd be pretty fucking weird, unless one of the scumteams weren't present.

In which case that team probably has the Shinori slot in it.

Yeah vifam and i are town masons.

I must have missed something unless you're joking...

[buldermar]

We definitely have to force Mehdi's kill, no BS. I refuse to let Mehdi live if his kill is not under our direct control. However, I would like to have a town-directed NK at our disposal, so I'm not for a Mehdi lynch as long as he's cooperating.

Exactly. Finally someone with some common sense.

[buldermar]

Click the Q+ on all the posts you want to quote, save for the last one, then click the quote button on that one.

Doesn't work for me because I often quote parts of a post by highlighting it before clicking "quote". However, when I do that with multiquote, it includes the entire post anyway.

[buldermar]

I have no desire to let my kill be voted on. Directed by people I think are town sure, but letting everyone vote on it no.

I think I mentioned the theory in the first posts for today so either you brough it up day 4 or it's mine.

You're not in a position in which you can affort to pretend to make a decision. If any type of consensus is reached in whatever way and you don't follow that consensus, you're getting insta-lynched. If ANYONE disagrees with this, speak now.

[buldermar]

Well I think it's pretty obvious that almost everyone wants you to kill Sanjay, Mehdi.

You ARE going to kill Sanjay, right?

STOP
THIS
USELESS
BULLSHIT


IT WORKS LIKE THIS:
1) WE DECIDE WHO MEHDI IS TO KILL
2) WE SEE IF THAT PERSON HAS BEEN KILLED
3) IF THE PERSON HAS NOT BEEN KILLED, MEHDI IS INSTA-LYNCHED

[buldermar]

VOTE: Phill

Fake-vote: Sanjay

[buldermar]

Click the Q+ on all the posts you want to quote, save for the last one, then click the quote button on that one.

Doesn't work for me because I often quote parts of a post by highlighting it before clicking "quote". However, when I do that with multiquote, it includes the entire post anyway.

...then start using copy+paste or delete the bits you don't want. I don't want to have to read all this crap.

Eh, maybe lynch Maenara and Sanjay is a good Medhi shot.

DV are you town or scum? Be honest with me...

What are you even on.

P-EDIT: STOP YOUR OWN FREAKING USELESS NINE POSTS IN A ROW CRAP

I'll try it out. No promise, though.

[buldermar]

I'd feel bad after she shot 2 black scum.

This is a stupid argument for not lynching Mehdi. We're controlling his kills and lynching him of he doesn't follow our demands. As such, the actual kills are utterly unrelated to his alignment. We're not lynching him because he's useful when we control his kills - that's it - not because you just so happen to feel bad after he shot 2 black scum. Jesus.

[buldermar]

I think it's soon time to know if Vifam was protected either of the two previous nights. He's not cleared and there are not many obvious lynches left, plus it should be a secured win if we clear a couple more people.

[buldermar]

Bumi is confirmed to have made a Vifam-Titan connect so unless he's scum neighborizer he's town (the greenscum JoAT is downnnn) and I'm inclined to believe one of these two options over the other. Nacho is town also as a result.

Oh right, forgot about this. Thanks.

[buldermar]

Please note that these targets were choosen entirely at random from the list of unconfirmed claimed VTs, and not at all based on the fact that both are gunning for my death.

I'm pleased to see that your humor remains intact.

[buldermar]

I'd lynch Mehdi. The guy who is, y'know, essentially a proven SK.

Maenara, I think your logic with respect to most things is sound, but

even if

we knew for a fact that Mehdi is SK it's better for us to simply control his kills each night than lynching him. As soon as he does not comply, we lynch him. It's essentially an extra lynch every day; I don't see how it's not hugely beneficial to town.

[buldermar]

I thought the 'at random' was sarcasm considering the tsundere sentence about how it TOTALLY wasn't because you two were after her.

Holy shit, we have a Sherlock in here.

[buldermar]

His sus of S+R was both bad and an outlier

It was an outlier, but I think it was pretty sound. I'm probably one of the few left who's still suspicious of S&R.

[buldermar]

Thinking on it it looks more like one scum team trying to kill a member of the other scum team

Just no. Both teams were obviously interested in hitting town given that town is currently in a far superior position.

[buldermar]

Also when am I getting that fucking hat

[buldermar]

Yes, I'm not too thick to realize that this is probably a reference to me facetiously complaining about seven posts in a row earlier, but FUCKING SERIOUSLY BULDERMAR?

The multiquote function doesn't work when you pick out parts of posts to comment on.

[buldermar]

and the shenanigan potential outweighs it

What shenanigan? Worst case is that he kills someone else, in which case we just lynch him the following day.

[buldermar]

like mafia intentionally targetting the same as Mehdi to make it seem like there are no scum left

Fuck if I care who kills who, we're lynching Mehdi before LyLo anyway.

[buldermar]

EDIT:

Oh, wait, I complained about nine posts last time. Well, then, you're just made of fail and spam.

That was not nice. I think a considerable part of me is made by spam, possible fail as well, but I've also pointed out things in this game that nobody else thought of at the time.

[buldermar]

He's a damn Doctor with no other protective roles in the game. Why is he still alive?

I asked the same question previously. I think consensus is that he's indirectly confirmed via Titan.

[buldermar]

Wait, confirmed by Titan how?

Were they not in some privat chat together? Maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

[buldermar]

I want Mehdi to kill S&R and lynch AD. Next day lynch Mehdi and if he flips SK we lynch Maenara the following day. That's my personal agenda which wont happen given the current general consensus.

[buldermar]

That isn't related to alignment buldermar.

Then I don't get why people insist that Vifam is town. -_-

[buldermar]

There's an implication that xtoph investigated Vifam as town.

Oh, okay.

[buldermar]

I mean, it could be wrong, and/or Vifam could be investigation immune, but considering how IIRC xtoph thought Vifam was scummy on D1 and then inexplicably thought he was town D2 it is fairly likely that Vifam's town.

I kind of doubt green scum have a godfather, also.

I want to see the post in which xtoph confirms Vifam as town. Can you find it?

[buldermar]

I didn't save the last night phase

Again?!

[buldermar]

I think the Magua thing was a PR hunt. I figured out a role that Medhi is but telling it would endanger him. Its a 3rd party role, but if I am right town can win with him.

He's already claimed BP, in addition to having a kill. You cannot possibly endanger him.

There is only one way I can think of that makes this role not OP, and I have seen types of roles like this. If I am right Medhi, has a 3rd party wincon that can be satisfied along with town interests.

He's not a survivor.

[buldermar]

Stop. Medhi's role is to protect Maenara, he is in essence a bodyguard, if Maenara is killed or lynched he Medhi loses. I have seen this role before, and I guarantee Maenara is town (because scum has to kill all 3rd party, Medhi cant kill Maenara). Medhi and town have the same goal, in essence to eliminate scum in order to prevent from dying. Dont lynch Medhi.

A lover??????

Giving Medhi the wrong rolename is fucking ruthless of the mods then if that's the case

It still could be an accident as Mehdi claims.

[buldermar]

Vifam's posts are awfully flighty and detached. He seems to just post thoughts and passing remarks about anything he decides to, and I don't think that's helpful to the Town. And it's not just a lack of quantity, but the quality is pretty bad, too. There hasn't really been a shift between confirmation phase and Day 1. So I
VOTE: Vifam

Last post referring to vifam day 1:

oh my gog im being surrounded by people who

still aren't telling me the problem!

This happened when I voted Vifam, too! What is wrong with you people??

Doesn't sound like suspicion disappeared.

Day 2 mentions (there are 2 others that I don't think really show a read on vifam):

Vifam posted a thing

Maybe it's not a case but I like to think it's better than anything else right now

Vifam is currently utilising Town's greatest power! malpascp is currently the only person who isn't!

How did that suspicion ever disappear from a cop?

Is this really why you guys think there is an inno on Vifam? There is nothing more to it? In that case I strongly suggest we lynch Vifam - or at the very least do so befpre LyLo if scum didn't kill him. He has not been protected for two nights and yet he wasn't killed. I know it

can

happen when he's town, it's just unlikely.

[buldermar]

Yeah that's the inno reasoning which I find to be a strange jump of I find vifam scummy to I like vifam's posts without reasons given in between.

People make such jumps all the fucking time without being a cop. There is no reason to think a cop should be less likely to do so.

[buldermar]

I have a feeling the more you talk about do something to him before lylo the more likely scum won't kill him. A doc isn't likely to save correctly so power wise it's not a big problem to leave alive.

It becomes an increasingly bigger problem as the player pool decreases in size.

[buldermar]

i was gonna jump in here and yell at you guys for the av lynch, but
looks like there were actual reasons. cool.

Can we expect of you to catch fully up once your V/LA is over?

my v/la is over.
you can't expect shit though.

this was supposed to be sarcasm, but occasionally powerlynching in this game is a thing and so I don't get to catch up on my own sweet time and in my normal way
hooray

Holy fuck are you still in the game?
j/k j/k

[buldermar]

we could use mehdi's kill to test Vifam's doc.

Brilliant! We should def. do this.

[buldermar]

If Mehdi flips Gamzee, green scum, Maenara is pretty much confirmed scum with her. Mehdi claiming Maenara is Megido and Maenara refuting this fact could be a gambit in order to get Mehdi killed so greenscum's kill can stop being redirected while Maenara comes out as likely town. Kurloz being completely innocent while Gamzee is working for Lord English doesn't really make sense. Maenara's flavor has her supposedly being confused for Gamzee and that makes her investigations return as guilty is strange, especially since she never batted an eyelash at Mehdi's claim. It also seems poor modding practice to make flavor that partially confirms a name as scum, so I doubt it's the case.

If Mehdi flips something else, green scum, I will be surprised, but Maenara will still follow as the next lynch. If Gamzee isn't in the game, Maenara's flavor makes even less sense and so Occam's razor to Maenara scum.

If Mehdi flips SK, will need to reanalyze, but Maenara isn't necessarily confirmed scum.

What do you think about using Mehdi to confirm Vifam before lynching him? The order of the lynches shouldn't matter enough to give up on an essentially free confirmation. We can lynch Mehdi tomorrow instead, no?

[buldermar]

Nacho, why is Maenara wanting Mehdi lynched so badly if they're scum partners? She could have gone along with Mehdi's gambit at no loss other than being tied with respect to his alignment.

[buldermar]

If Mehdi knows he will be lynched tomorrow and is scum, why would he help town? He wouldn't.

He's either SK or town or a 3rd party alignment that wins with town.

[buldermar]

Looking at current flips, it seems likely to me that we're dealing with uneven scumteams. Green scum has crazy power so far and black scum really doesn't have anything comparable, which tells me that black scum is probably a big scumteam with a smaller greenteam. At this stage in the game, especially if Mehdi and Maenara were the last two green scum, a good hard bus would be a hell of a boon to the scumteam, especially when Mehdi is coming under a bit of pressure and it's possible he will be lynched; Maenara isn't going to be able to carry the scumteam alone unless she's stuck in a "yeah totally town pile", which probably isn't going to happen without some shenanigans going on.

The problem is that when Mehdi flips scum, that never confirms Maenara as town, no matter how heavily Maenara bussed Mehdi. Then how does the bus have any value?

[buldermar]

If Mehdi knows he will be lynched tomorrow and is scum, why would he help town? He wouldn't.

He's either SK or town or a 3rd party alignment that wins with town.

It is impossible for Medhi to be town.
Medhi had information in his role PM stating that Maenara was Megido and was town. Maenara is not Megido, meaning Mehdi's role PM was either a lie (mods have confirmed no lying directly to players!), or Mehdi was lying and continues to lie. He tries to play it off as mod error, but no that's a bunch of bullshit. Maenara can't be scum if Mehdi is town because of Mehdi's own role PM. So either Maenara is trolling, which I seriously doubt, or Mehdi is scum and needs to die.

Ok, I agree that Mehdi is 95%+ SK. Why do you oppose the idea of controlling his kills, though?

[buldermar]

Looking at current flips, it seems likely to me that we're dealing with uneven scumteams. Green scum has crazy power so far and black scum really doesn't have anything comparable, which tells me that black scum is probably a big scumteam with a smaller greenteam. At this stage in the game, especially if Mehdi and Maenara were the last two green scum, a good hard bus would be a hell of a boon to the scumteam, especially when Mehdi is coming under a bit of pressure and it's possible he will be lynched; Maenara isn't going to be able to carry the scumteam alone unless she's stuck in a "yeah totally town pile", which probably isn't going to happen without some shenanigans going on.

The problem is that when Mehdi flips scum, that never confirms Maenara as town, no matter how heavily Maenara bussed Mehdi. Then how does the bus have any value?

Doesn't confirm, confirm, but it would put Maenara pretty solidly in the town pile. And if the town decides to go through PoE lynches for a while, this can leave Maenara in a pretty solid spot that's a far more realistic chance of winning than a Mehdi-Maenara scumteam would have if they tried to play as what would essentially be a lover pair.

That's not what's happening so that argument is backwards. What's happening currently is that both of Mehdi and Maenara are certainly getting lynched before LyLo unless Mehdi specifically flips town. In other words, their odds of winning both as individual players and as a team has decreased substantially because a) Mehdi tried to pull the gambit and b) Maenara didn't go for the gambit. Anyway, it's a WIFOM scenario that we disagree on.

[buldermar]

We aren't controlling his kills. We're telling him to shoot people that he's okay with shooting anyways.

There is no way to tell the difference, nor is the difference of any importance. If we want him to shoot the persons he shoots, it's all good. If he doesn't want to shoot a person we want him to shoot, we simply lynch him.

[buldermar]

Looking at current flips, it seems likely to me that we're dealing with uneven scumteams. Green scum has crazy power so far and black scum really doesn't have anything comparable, which tells me that black scum is probably a big scumteam with a smaller greenteam. At this stage in the game, especially if Mehdi and Maenara were the last two green scum, a good hard bus would be a hell of a boon to the scumteam, especially when Mehdi is coming under a bit of pressure and it's possible he will be lynched; Maenara isn't going to be able to carry the scumteam alone unless she's stuck in a "yeah totally town pile", which probably isn't going to happen without some shenanigans going on.

The problem is that when Mehdi flips scum, that never confirms Maenara as town, no matter how heavily Maenara bussed Mehdi. Then how does the bus have any value?

Doesn't confirm, confirm, but it would put Maenara pretty solidly in the town pile. And if the town decides to go through PoE lynches for a while, this can leave Maenara in a pretty solid spot that's a far more realistic chance of winning than a Mehdi-Maenara scumteam would have if they tried to play as what would essentially be a lover pair.

That's not what's happening so that argument is backwards. What's happening currently is that both of Mehdi and Maenara are certainly getting lynched before LyLo unless Mehdi specifically flips town. In other words, their odds of winning both as individual players and as a team

has

decreased substantially

because a) Mehdi tried to pull the gambit and b) Maenara didn't go for the gambit. Anyway, it's a WIFOM scenario that we disagree on.

We know this now. They didn't know it then. Although they're not both greenscum, Mehdi was in an ideal situation and the whole sequence of events had no reason to occur.

Even if they're both greenscum we don't lose the game by lynching someone before them and having Mehdi confirm Vifam, which I consider to be a superior strategy if it by off-chance happens that one of them isn't scum.

[buldermar]

The moderators specifically said they wouldn't answer to whether there's a mistake in thread unless clearing a bp is a better idea.

I actually played a marathon game recently in which the entire game had to be cancelled because the mod fucked up twice in one post. I'm starting to believe that a mod fuckup like the one you're claiming happened may be plausible.

[buldermar]

In addition, the town directed kill before we are forced to lynch him is probably going to be a "fuck you" kill unless Mehdi is feeling super close to the town. So.

You have to admit that this is a tad bit speculative...

[buldermar]

DV are you town or scum? Be honest.

Er....

Go for scum. It worked for me.

[buldermar]

In fact I've pretty much allowed every kill except mae as long as it makes sense.

Any non-confirmed townkill makes sense. And you're still not in a position to allow or disallow us directing your kills.

[buldermar]

Be honest, I'll know if you're lying. Just tell me.

Ok, I'm scum.

OH I KNEW I COULD TRUST YOU ♥

[buldermar]

but when it's likely that we have 4 town directed kills either way, it's time to kill the sk

No. If we lynch and kill every non-confirmed town as quickly as possible and then lynch Mehdi we essentially have this game locked up.

[buldermar]

Using Medhi's shot on me is a bad idea.

I don't think anyone has suggested this.

[buldermar]

Uh, if they're is a roleblocker that plan falls apart completely.

Chances are there is no roleblocker left.

[buldermar]

That's why we're arguing over rb possibility. Green scum having an unlimited rb with what they've had flip seems way ahead of black. 1 shot rb similar to how all the other x shots are 1 shots is more believable and that 1 shot was likely already used on av. So rb worries shouldn't be a problem.

QFT

[buldermar]

Hey hey, I'm here. Just wallowing in my shame and guilt for not thinking Sanjay is scum (also, I hatted him).

What do I gotta do to receive a hat next?

[buldermar]

I never planned to. The idea works like this: I shoot someone we think is scummy (buld will yell me and say whoever the town decides), vifam then protects that person and we next see whether they die or not. I'll still be targeting someone suspected so if the doc doesn't work because it's a lie or somehow rb exists it'll cause someone suspected to die.

He has said no which is why lack of kills is so strange.

Yes, this is exactly what we need to do.

[buldermar]

Don't you mean odd numbers? At this point though unless something new there's nothing else I have to add for your suspicions counter.

Who would you lynch today and shoot tonight? This would be a lot easier, to judge you from then Medhi is gonna shoot 1/14 people.

This is the wrong thing to do. We need to make a decision on who to shoot, have Mehdi shoot that person and have Vifam protect that person. We also need to make a decision on who to lynch.

[buldermar]

I never planned to. The idea works like this: I shoot someone we think is scummy (buld will yell me and say whoever the town decides), vifam then protects that person and we next see whether they die or not. I'll still be targeting someone suspected so if the doc doesn't work because it's a lie or somehow rb exists it'll cause someone suspected to die.

He has said no which is why lack of kills is so strange.

^^ @Everyone:Why aren't we fine for this plan tonight?

We are and there really isn't anything to debate as this is obviously much better than any other plan that has been suggested - especially the one of lynching Mehdi right now.

[buldermar]

Well there's two ways for a kill to happen:

A. Vifam lied.
B. Scum still have another rb shot this late in the game.

For B to be true that means a minimum of 2 shot rb (or 1 shot rb + bumi scum which is just overly convoluted). Joat + 1 shot Global RB + 2+ RB + Goon doesn't seem equal to 1 shot delayed strongman + role cop + goon + GF and goes against the all x shots so far have been 1 shot. There technically is the other option of uneven scum teams that I won't say has no chance even if I don't think it's likely.

If the target is killed and we kill Vifam who was roleblocked, at least we make them use their roleblock in the process. It's better than outright lynching Vifam... or you for that matter.

[buldermar]

Ask nicely.

I've made you a rebus:


http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quilford

[buldermar]

you guys are trying to bargain with an obvious sk at 15/30 when just lynching him should slow down the nk rate to one per night anyway

we don't need to prove vifam. we just lynch him if the game gets down to like final 5 and he's not dead yet

Slowing down the nk rate insinuates that nk's are out of our control. This is not the case. By lynching him we're effectively losing a kill per day/night cycle.

By your logic we might as well have him kill exactly who we were otherwise going to lynch and simply not lynch anyone. Why on earth would you do that rather than having him kill who we were going to lynch and then lynch the 2nd most likely scum, or vice versa? It's like some of you have this weird mental block that does not allow you to realize that as long as we're controlling his kills, lynches and his kills are interchangeable.

[buldermar]

we don't need to prove vifam. we just lynch him if the game gets down to like final 5 and he's not dead yet

It's obviously better to prove him.

[buldermar]

GOD. WHY AM I TRYING TO REASON WITH SOMEONE I ALREADY CONSIDER SCUM. SKÆDFmasdfask. Obviously you're trying to advocate against a) keeping Mehdi to take advantage of his kills and b) confirming Vifam. Because you're scum.

[buldermar]

it's unlikely to mean anything in the long run and we have enough time that vifam will become obvscum on survival rate

WIFOM, scum can just neglect killing him to make his survival rate high and thus have us lynch him.

[buldermar]

For all I know you could be scum with Vifam.

[buldermar]

GOD. WHY AM I TRYING TO REASON WITH SOMEONE I ALREADY CONSIDER SCUM. SKÆDFmasdfask. Obviously you're trying to advocate against a) keeping Mehdi to take advantage of his kills and b) confirming Vifam. Because you're scum.

Since when did you think we were scum until now?

I don't want to keep Mehdi alive because his role is obviously too powerful to be town, as a redux of a scum's roleclaim in the game I just played in. I'm pretty sure with an even amount of players we don't want to use a vig shot either, in the long run it costs us a lynch. We can control a lynch better then we can control one player's kill.

Quil, I believe Manju would prefer you give a hat to Zdenek, to test his untargetability. It's something you can actually prove as opposed to just giving hats randomly.

Since that torgh or whatever he was called guy made a case on you and I started paying attention.

You're still making no fucking sense and I really can't be bothered trying to explain things once again. Plus you're scum so you may already understand but just being ignoring me.

[buldermar]

Nah, S&R is town.

I really don't see this and it's annoying me that I can't when everyone else does.

[buldermar]

We're AT THE VERY FUCKING LEAST using a nights kill to confirm Vifam on a target that we'd otherwise have lynched. Then if you stupid fucks feel like it's not worthwhile using his kills after tomorrow, fine, you wont hear a complain. But I really want us to use him to confirm Vifam.

[buldermar]

You actually read the case Torg had on S&R

That and all of his other posts. At the time I thought that he was one of the few that were carefully reading the game and connecting the dots.

[buldermar]

Last night I dreamt that Vifam was a mafia doctor.... weird.

Were you scum with him in your dream?

[buldermar]

Why are remaining scum a 1 shot rb? That seems really unlikely to me.

[buldermar]

Why are remaining scum a 1 shot rb? That seems really unlikely to me.

If they aren't then Bumi is scum.

That's just even more reason to try out the theory - we're guaranteed to confirm at least one of Vifam and Bumi.

[buldermar]

What am I missing here....

[buldermar]

Buld, I've played plenty of games with both heads and so has Dan. You're just going to have to trust us on this one.

Neither of you are confirmed, right? I'm not going to trust any meta analysis from a non-confirmed town at this point.

[buldermar]

Alt lynch could be one from your list:
Alduskkel
DeasVail
DeltaWave
Maenara

[buldermar]

Same with test target.

[buldermar]

We can wait with lynching S&R I just don't want a LyLo scenario with them.

[buldermar]

If we test Vifam, I want Medhi to shoot Vifam and we lynch Aldus.

????????

Vifam can self-target??

Have everyone gone nuts or is it me?

[buldermar]

By the way I'm honestly expecting S&R to get killed soon but if you do a good enough job they won't.

Did I ever mention that I have a huge fucking town read on S&R? :O

[buldermar]

VOTE: DeasVail

We lynch DV.

Mehdi shoots DW.
Vifam protects DW.
Quil hats Zdenek. (hasn't he done this already???)

Thoughts?

This works for me.

[buldermar]

VOTE: DeasV

[buldermar]

Buldy, what are you doing? D:

Like Vifam and BT are either scum or just severely misguided, but you too?

Like, I'm sure there

are

towntells in my ISO, you just have to find them!

Well I think you're town but this seems like the only way we're going to test Vifam. Even if you're town I think this will be better than lynching Mehdi.

[buldermar]

I mean in my ideal world we are lynching S&R

[buldermar]

What would you do in my position? Be honest.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Delta

Better unvote Mehdi and vote Delta then.

[buldermar]

And we'll need a different target to test Vifam's theory on.

[buldermar]

I mean in my ideal world we are lynching S&R

TBH I think that S&R's opposition to the plan is that they want protection for themselves tonight. If I was Vifam I would give it to them given how towny they appear to the town (most of the town).

No Vifam would obviously protect a confirmed town, such as Nacho.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Deasveil

I like those quotes

Scum can FoS town to setup possibilities for later wagons no? I don't think these quotes mean jack shit.

[buldermar]

If there is a roleblocker and I get totally fucked over, what does that make of Nacho?

If there is a roleblocker you're obviously getting lynched, which when you flip confirms Nacho right?

[buldermar]

Why are you voting Delta, Buld, it makes no sense

To save DV whom I consider more likely to be town.

[buldermar]

I mean in my ideal world we are lynching S&R

TBH I think that S&R's opposition to the plan is that they want protection for themselves tonight. If I was Vifam I would give it to them given how towny they appear to the town (most of the town).

No Vifam would obviously protect a confirmed town, such as Nacho.

Nacho's been pretty inactive, he would be better to protect a little bit later than now. I'd be protecting the more vocal players inorder to foster a better town environment.

Maybe but it has to still be a confirmed player. Anything else would be dumb.

[buldermar]

Why are you voting Delta, Buld, it makes no sense

To save DV whom I consider more likely to be town.

DW is the same slot as torg who built up a case on s&r who you think is scum...

So? I don't think s&r is scum because of that case, the case made me look more carefully into s&r myself. Like I said there are plenty of people I'd rather lynch but my priority is getting you confirmed and not having DV lynched.

[buldermar]

There's really only two options for scum here: bus their buddy hard, or join the counter-wagon to keep their buddy alive one more day. The first option might be viable early on, but when it's down to 2 scum left with 13 town alive and lots of flips/claims out there, there's no room for a hard bus right now. So I think that you'd find scum backing my wagon and the whole "I get some vague super-subjective feeling about DW, so I'll take that over the DV associations that I admit have merit" is the kind of fence-sitting that's completely in line with what I'd expect here. It's so that when I do flip town, he can just shrug his shoulders and be like "oh well lol oops on that let's actually not lynch DV guys I'm not too sure about that" kind of junk.

Holy shit that has to be the longest post I've ever seen from you. On a scale from 1 to 10 how related is your current level of activity to the fact that we're currently considering you a possible lynch option?

[buldermar]

Why is DV town, Buld?

His reaction to what I did on day 1 was town and he hasn't done anything that would make me change that view.

[buldermar]

Basically I want everything out on the table regarding their impressions of DV and myself so that they can't get away with fence-sitting this lynch away.

I think I've been pretty transparent about the fact that there are others I'd rather lynch than you and DV but between the two of you I'd rather lynch you.

[buldermar]

Not to mention both town and scum usually get active if they weren't active and get lynched.

I don't recall having claimed it's indicative of alignment, nor do I think it is. So where the hell is this coming from?

[buldermar]

What would your reaction be when I flip? Would DV then be scum?

If you can show me why your alignments would be tied that way, yes.

[buldermar]

Is this it? Because that's not much and I'm not seeing anything else.

I disagree that it's not much. No comment on the last part - I don't recall if I made other posts regarding his alignment.

[buldermar]

It sounded like it.

No, you misinterpreted it. That's not the same as it sounding like something. Nothing in my post suggested that it would be related to alignment, you just assumed so for whatever reason.

[buldermar]

What would your reaction be when I flip? Would DV then be scum?

If you can show me why your alignments would be tied that way, yes.

That's an interesting response.

Ok? What kind of response were you expecting?

[buldermar]

What would your reaction be when I flip? Would DV then be scum?

If you can show me why your alignments would be tied that way, yes.

It's still dodging the question. Let's say I get lynched and tomorrow begins with my flip as town and Vifam confirmed as doc. Who would be scum in that case?

I wasn't dodging a question like you're insinuating, you were merely asking the wrong question.

I currently think s&r is the most likely scum and that wouldn't change should you flip town. I believe that's what you're trying to ask me. In case it isn't, I'll answer your current question as well: alignments doesn't change depending on your flip; reads potentially do. In other words, the exact same people would be scum.

[buldermar]

And what do you think of the DV associations that were posted?

I already stated my opinion on them.

[buldermar]

Last night I dreamt that Vifam was a mafia doctor.... weird.

UNVOTE: DeltaWave
VOTE: DeasVail
If this is really what he was really thinking, he wouldn't have taken his vote off Medhi. Just trying to WIFOM bomb the town.

Eh what? He took his vote off Mehdi because Mehdi wasn't getting lynched and I told him to do so.

[buldermar]

So what the fuck do we do? Continue to attempt to push each of our own agenda? Analyse who is the most appropriate target by opinions? I can help us with the latter if I get a top 3 for lynch and for Vifam test target from everyone except Mehdi.

Are people up for that? We can do it popcorn style with confirmed towns last so that scum can't take too much advantage of it.

[buldermar]

Why did you guys have to lynch Mehdi -_-

[buldermar]

Now we can't confirm Vifam and he, once again, wasn't killed. You should all be ashamed for lynching Mehdi.

[buldermar]

If you weren't confirmed I'd think you're scum, Nacho. Why why why why why would you kill Mehdi at this point when we were controlling his kills.

VOTE: Maenara

[buldermar]

Well, that escalated quickly.

Tell me why 'fore I die, at least?

You were only alive in the first place because it logically would be bad to lynch you before Mehdi.

[buldermar]

i have a towntell on vifam but id rather wait and see a couple more nights before outing

Wait, who the fuck are you?

[buldermar]

Dude are you serious

At the time I was. Then I read the next post.

[buldermar]

I still insist that S&R gets lynched before LyLo.

[buldermar]

Are we lynching Maenara or what?????

Is that rhetorical?

[buldermar]

Are we lynching Maenara or what?????

Is that rhetorical?

Depends

I'm all ears.

[buldermar]

Are you against the lynch?

Is that rhetorical as well?

[buldermar]

Are you against the lynch?

Is that rhetorical as well?

Nah

Read this day.

[buldermar]

The fuck I do. I say it's a circumstance where claiming is allowable.

P-Edit: Because if I'd claimed miller earlier, you'd have lynched me and ended the day. Why out myself earlier? What are the chances of getting investigated by a cop in a 30-player game?

lalala

Are any of you actually reading what this guy is fucking saying?

Okay, let me rephrase my statements so even you can understand what I'm saying:

1: Claiming with more than 2/3 players left in the game is virtually always bad idea. This is a general rule.
2: There are exceptions to this rule. A doc at L-1 is one. A miller is another.
3: The fact that claiming early as a miller is generally advicable does not make it a good idea in all fucking cases. Namely, not this bloody one.

I'm not really paying attention to what he says because he's a confirmed town. He has no incentive to lie.

[buldermar]

HEY BULDERMAR LET'S DIRECT MEHDI'S KILLS FOREVER

It wouldn't have changed the outcome of this game, which is all I care about. I still maintain that directing Mehdi's kills until there is only confirmed towns left would have been superior to what we did, given the information we had at the time. I think you're intelligent enough to understand that you can't conclude that what we ended up doing (lynching Mehdi then Maenara) is the best only due to them both being non-town roles. I'm not saying that there is no way it wasn't, I'm saying that I had this scenario (with the exception of Maenara being SK instead of scum) calculated into my analysis and, as such, it does not change what I considered and still consider optimal to do.

[buldermar]

Vifam/Titan Neighborhood

What productive interaction. ;D

[buldermar]

Thanks for the game everyone!

[buldermar]

HEY BULDERMAR LET'S DIRECT MEHDI'S KILLS FOREVER

It wouldn't have changed the outcome of this game, which is all I care about. I still maintain that directing Mehdi's kills until there is only confirmed towns left would have been superior to what we did, given the information we had at the time. I think you're intelligent enough to understand that you can't conclude that what we ended up doing (lynching Mehdi then Maenara) is the best only due to them both being non-town roles. I'm not saying that there is no way it wasn't, I'm saying that I had this scenario (with the exception of Maenara being SK instead of scum) calculated into my analysis and, as such, it does not change what I considered and still consider optimal to do.

I have to say that even though I tunneled hard on you, I really liked both your posts and your posting acumen.

And thought that your logic trumped nacho's any day.

Thank you. I don't mean to force the impression that I'm somehow competing with Nacho; I'm not. I really respect his game and I've been wanting him to get more involved at several occasions throughout this game for this reason. I just happen to disagree with him on this matter.

Regarding your supposed tunneling: I don't think it was bad at all with really early in the game as the only exception.

[buldermar]

length, this game actually went at a speedy pace since everyone was fairly active and just throwing out posts every minute

At one point the mod even complained about not being able to post a votecount because every time he tried, someone had already ninja'ed.