Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Viomi]

i've pretty much started skipping over most of what mutant is saying.

Umm, can you not do that thanks? It's incredibly nieve of you to ignore me just because you think I am scum. What if you are wrong? Then you have basically ignored the opinion of a townie who is trying to help people along. Surely you cannot be that confident in your reads that you are willing to just write players off over it. Additionally, even if I am scum then shouldn't you still be listening to what I have to say so that you know who to look into next if I were to flip? The idea of ignoring someone is just flawed no matter what.

Wait, mutant

Did you just tell nsg to read your posts?

Kek, I suppose I just did :3

It’s in a different context and I used a lot more words to do so though.

It'd suck if she started asking you questions you've already answered and misrepresenting you because of it. I can't imagine how infuriating it'd be if the only posts she didn't ignore were the ones of you telling her to read your posts.

[Viomi]

Also can we stop this whole "it's less of a risk to lynch people lower on the list" bullshit? Draft order is NAI. Which numbers scum would or wouldn't pick is WIFOM. Not only that, if scum has good PRs, we could be looking at more than one death tonight or a scum roleblocker stopping our PRs. It isn't less of a risk to lynch me, because then you're risking letting scum PRs live too long.

Vote people who you think are actually scummy. People who are cruising along in the background while we make conspiracy theories about what numbers scum would pick.

[Viomi]

So we can strike out texcat, Viomi, mutant, CK, north, KidAmn and me from lynch options for today, right?

Why would we strike out texcat or nsg?

Because they're high in the list (and I townread texcat).

Why in the world do you townread texcat?

[Viomi]

So we can strike out texcat, Viomi, mutant, CK, north, KidAmn and me from lynch options for today, right?

Why would we strike out texcat or nsg?

Because they're high in the list (and I townread texcat).

Why in the world do you townread texcat?

Her pushes on me and stuff like this:

Some of the reads below are POE. For example, I have a town read on Aster because I don't think Aster and Viomi can both be scum.

Texcat - 2

Northsidegal - 3

Assemblerotws - 4

CommKnight - 6
Mutantdevle - 8

MisaTange - 30

CityElectric - 5

Chip Butty - 5

Wilky - 7

Creature - 7

Lalendra - 7

Aster - 1

Pisskop - 1

Viomi - 1

even though her reads are pretty wrong.

This is the only, ONLY time texcat has mentioned her reads, by the way. You say "stuff like this" but there is no other stuff like that, that's literally the only post from them with any kind of information.

And it's all hilariously off and doesn't make sense from a town perspective because they aren't actually trying to get reads, just blend in.

[Viomi]

Actually it makes perfect sense.

You do realize every single one of her townreads in that list is/was a hard lurker with no information or positions, right?

[Viomi]

Actually it makes perfect sense.

You do realize every single one of her townreads in that list is/was a hard lurker with no information or positions, right?

She even explicitly states that the only exception to this rule, Aster, isn't on there because of anything other than she thinks we can't be scum together and she scumreads me.

[Viomi]

Any other player we can discuss about?

Why do you have to make townreading you so difficult..

[Viomi]

Do you want to take a look at CheekyTeeky now? Or CheekyTeeky is only scummy if CK flips scum?

CT is scummy regardless of CK's alignment, at least to me.

[Viomi]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Easy.

[Viomi]

if town are going to be manipulated so easily by scum then we don't have a chance

Then stop being manipulated by scum and following all of the big easy wagons and instead do a little thing called scumhunting.

[Viomi]

CheekyTeeky has the potential to be VI, Chip Butty on the other hand could very well be taking advantage of the situation.

I can assure you CT isn't VI.

Oh? Scum-fucker or you just hard-buddying?

I'm more confident on CB than CT. CT is probably just stupid and not even reading Kid's stuff. Kid is smart, but their tunneling is probably one of the worst Comm tunnels I've seen. He won't say what happens if (and when) I flip town? Only "Comm is scum, we'll look at CT after his flip." So what happens when I flip town sherlock? Gonna say "Ooops, now I gotta reread because my initial reads were more garbage than the local landfills and that dirty ass water them African kids gotta drink because of all this stinking garbage floating down their water-ways."

This is dumb. Bad post. Stop it, CK.

[Viomi]

Anyways, can we please lynch:

Lalendra, CheekyTeeky, texcat? Or mayyybe Chip Butty?

[Viomi]

If scum.Viomi, I think scum would have made an excuse to get off the wagon by now. So that is something in viomi's favour.

If town.viomi, i would have thought scum would have made an excuse to hammet by now. Maybe they are all on already?

Nevermind, not Chip Butty.

Also, this is a very good point, I'm gonna go look at my wagon again.

[Viomi]

Vote Count 2.4

CommKnight (2) - Aster, Creature
Creature (1) - northsidegal
northsidegal -
Aster -
texcat -
Viomi (6) - Lalendra, texcat, wilky, Commknight, Assemblerotws, Chip Butty
mutantdevle -
Chip Butty - mutantdevle
Lalendra -
wilky -
CityElectric -
Assemblerotws (1) - Viomi

Not Voting: City Electric

With 12 Alive. Takes 7 To Lynch. 6 To No Lynch.
V/LA : CityElectric Dec 16
wilky Requests Replacement
Deadline Timer (expired on 2017-12-22 07:00:00)

[/color][/b]

Alright, so mutantdevle, nsg, Aster, Creature and CE had plenty of time to hammer me. They would've seemed justified, nobody would have blamed them, and they would've ended the day early and prevented us from getting a lot more information. They didn't. So, they're all town. The entirety of the scumteam was on me at this point.

Lalendra, texcat, CheekyTeeky (wilky), CommKnight, KidAmn (Assemble), and Chip Butty

Here is a list of people you have either told to read your posts or have accused of not reading your posts (other than me):

Chip
texcat
Comm
Cheeky
Lalendra
Assemblerotws

So this isn't my opinion on people who don't find your posts clear enough, it's yours. That's 7 of us in total.

Oh hey, isn't this a coincidence?

pisskop - (8) CityElectric,

Commknight

,

wilky

,

Chip Butty

,

Lalendra

, Viomi,

Assemblerotws

,

mutantdevle

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Oh look, there's mutantdevle coming in with the hammer, so nevermind about the entire scumteam being on me, mutant maybe didn't want to hammer the second town wagon in a row and was hoping to get someone else to. That seems reasonable.

So, I'm cool with lynching CK, Chip, Lalendra, CT, or mutantdevle.

Creature, why are you townreading CK again?

[Viomi]

So, they're all town.

Not really, it isn't just about voting you.

So why would scum!any of them not hammer me at that point?

[Viomi]

I agree there must have scum on that fifth harmony though.

texcat and Assemble are my townreads, so that leaves Cheeky, Chip and Lalendra.

Cheeky feels like a VI, so that leaves Chip and Lalendra, both wagons I love.

And what's stopping CT from being a SI?

[Viomi]

I still have a strong town read on Lalendra but I'm definitely up for lynching Chip though.

My mind is still open to the possibility of Lalendra being scum if you'd care to make a case on her. I would go looking through her ISO to see if I find anything scummy but I personally don't consider it worth it so late in the day.

Too late in the day to scumhunt? My oh my.

What makes you think Lalendra is town? She's been lurking the entire game and just popping in to sheep and misrep people.

[Viomi]

And I did make a case..

VOTE: Lalendra

[Viomi]

And I did make a case..

I do remember you saying a few words as to why she is scum. But IIRC, it was mostly just pointing out holes in her pushes and criticising her activity. In general, it just felt OMGUSy. The only thing that I could perhaps consider being scummy is how she didn't reply to your reply to her original case on you. Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you. If you want to, we can pressure her to reply to that, but I honestly don't see how that would help us right now. If you want me to believe she is scum, make a more detailed case on her pointing to specific posts. It takes walls to change my strong reads, not sentences.

Yes, because pointing out that her pushes are all fake and misreps, and that she's active lurking this game so she doesn't have to give us any more information than she needs to is definitely what OMGUS is.

"Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you."
Then read the fucking thread and pay attention to the fact that pushing me is the only thing she's done in D2.

Just because you're from some shit forum where lurking the game out is somehow not scummy doesn't mean that's the case here.

[Viomi]

Also, how do we not have enough time to explore NSG but we do have time to explore Lalendra? Lalendra has only been slightly more mentioned as scum than NSG has and there is no strong case for either of them. It would take a lot to change people's opinions on either of them and I simply think that the time is not there at this stage.

There is a strong case, you just aren't paying attention.

[Viomi]

Literally every single one of Lalendra's posts today have been one of three things:

Fluff
Viomi is scum
I'd be okay with Comm too I guess

[Viomi]

Also, how do we not have enough time to explore NSG but we do have time to explore Lalendra?

Draft order.

This is a dumb post.

Also NSG wasn't on either of the wagons that we know pretty much all of scum must've been on, and Lalendra was, so..

[Viomi]

northsidegal is way more competent than how she has been this game.

That too.

[Viomi]

Oh boy, only two more hours until Aster is prodded.

[Viomi]

So only 1hr 40 until they post

Which means we're getting close to Lalendra's prodge as well.

[Viomi]

We have almost 2 days left. I'm really getting a bad feeling about this. It seems like compromise lynches are almost always town.

Which wagons are you saying are compromise lynches? I wouldn't call Lalendra a compromise, in fact I scumread her way more than CK. CK was more of a compromise lynch for me.

[Viomi]

You can join any of Chip and Lalendra. CK should also join, so does mutant. Eventually town will have to compromise into the wagon (and get scum as a bonus).

I mean, he didn't say he'd be cool lynching anyone, he said he'd be cool with Chip or Lalendra. Both of which are very scummy players who were both on wagons I know were on town, sooo... Yeah, wanna help us get Lalendra?

[Viomi]

I'm not trying to lynch Lalendra because she's a lurker. If I was trying to lynch the lurkiest, I'd be lynching CityElectric.

I'm lynching Lalendra because she's milestones more scummy than CK.

[Viomi]

Aster, while I agree with you that Creature is pretty VI, I really don't think CK is going to flip red. This feels like lots of people voting who they disagree with rather than who they think is actually scum. I really,

really

think Lalendra is scum. All these points you're making against Creature hold true for Lalendra; She hasn't made a case against anyone this entire game except for that one post where she lied and misrep'd me and basically copied every point other people had made on me without actually checking up on them. Then she refused to reply when I called her out on it, just kinda swept it under the rug but left her vote on me. Her entire existence for D2 has been sneaking under the radar and pushing me occasionally and saying "I'm cool with lynching Viomi by the way"

We should really, really consider lynching her today. CK is giving us information by being alive, and even though his logic is flawed, I honestly just think he's VI. Lalendra is giving us no information while being alive. She's not participating any more than she needs to while we make mislynch after mislynch. I would be extremely surprised, honestly, if Lalendra somehow didn't flip red.

[Viomi]

@Mod: Please prod Lalendra when you're next here, she has not posted for 50 hours.

[Viomi]

Typing up a Lalendra case right now. Hold your horses.

[Viomi]

Alright. This is going to be a big post. Well, not too big since Lalendra has lurked the fuck out of this game, but whatever. Below, I am going to reply to every. single. one. of Lalendra's posts this game. Her entire ISO. For Day One, and Day Two. She has done no scumhunting. She has started no wagons. She has given very, very few reads. And she is who we should lynch today. Ready? Alright, here we go.

Spoiler: The entirety of Lalendra's ISO

Well, it seems like this game is going to be progressing at a good clip. Hi all, back from Thanksgiving shenanigans and ready to dive in.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

I agree with Aster's reasoning here, I really really don't like the rolefishing Mutant is doing. It's wayyyy too early in the game for that and is not at all beneficial to town. Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?

Luckily for me, my placement in the list allowed me to choose my role more comfortably. Whether or not I received said role or what role I was after I am unwilling to disclose at this time.

So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?

I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

wow, finally getting this started - it feels like it's been over a month since i signed up.

Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.

Free towncred if you can find each.

12 & 16?

Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.

why did you answer it, then?

I would like an answer to this as well.

Ugh, that rolefishing.

mutant, have you tried a newbie before?

I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.

I almost think that Creature is a scumbuddy who is trying to help out Mutant, and Mutant is just too prideful to take the bait.

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

I don't know how I feel about this, he acknowledges the issue with Mutant but it seems obligatory, like he just has to acknowledge what's going on.

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Can you explain this a bit more? These are both RVS votes, surely your reads have to have developed a little more since then. Also, why are you just now answering this question, which was already pointed out by Mutant as seemingly obvious fishing for towncred?

Ah, her first post. This is probably her towniest post, and it's what she's been riding off of. She looks like she's scumhunting (she isn't, she doesn't follow up on anything she asks here), she gives some bullshit opinions like how Aster's RVS vote seems forced (lmao what), and she goes after mutantdevle because

everyone

is going after mutantdevle and he's already making himself out to be the easy target for D1.

What's that? Her

towniest

post is this garbage? Yeeepppp.

Oh and
VOTE: Mutantdevle

She then adds on a vote from mutantdevle, which was easy to see coming..

I do not accept I was role fishing I was simply asking a fish if they'd be willing to jump out of the water. I had no intention of throwing my hook into the water if she said no.

This just sounds like semantics.

Texcat had free choice of role. She had the freedom to choose absolutely any role on the list without worry that someone else may take the role. As a result, she could choose whichever role she thought was the strongest.

Hence she potentially has the strongest and most valuable role in the game.

Fake claiming as something either less useful or potentially damaging for the mafia if they were to target her could prevent them from doing so. Personally,

I would consider the act of fake claiming as a little selfish

since there are the dangers of someone CC and it would divert the kill to someone else but I put the option there for if she wanted to take it.

Either way, starting a conversation about her role is anti-town, to me. If she has the strongest and most valuable role in the game, why bring attention to it? You said it might benefit town to know what it was, but it also benefits scum. And then you say fake-claiming would be selfish, but by bringing up the topic of her claim (whether you think it was role-fishing or not is irrelevant), you are leading to one or the other of those eventualities. If she indicates she doesn't want to claim, you have still cast a spotlight on her, turning her into lynchbait if she is town, and thereby potentially losing one of our biggest assets.

What I don't understand is that Mutant keeps going back to "I was giving her the option to roleclaim." Everyone has the option to roleclaim at any point in the game, she didn't need your permission to do it. And you misunderstood what I said about her being lynchbait. I didn't say that a fakeclaim would make her lynchbait; I said that whether she fakeclaims or claims or doesn't claim, SHE IS NOW LYNCHBAIT purely because you brought attention to her. Whether or not scum would have drawn that conclusion on their own is irrelevant; you didn't need to point it out to them. At best it's anti-town.

She makes the easy argument everyone had already made, which is "rolefishing is bad kay". These posts aren't absolutely terrible, at least. Just, you know. Easy.

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

Yeah, I really don't like 171 either but like...that's just SUCH obvious buddying. It's hard to see it as anything else but my god that would be blatant if that's what it was.

No opinion, no rebuttal, no agreement. Just fluff comment. This becomes a heavy theme in Lalendra's posts from here on out, by the way.

Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Was your post in which you said "lynchbait is bait to be lynched" not sarcastic? That was how I read it.
And I misspoke when I used that term I think. What I meant to say is that she is more likely to be either lynched or NK'd because of the attention brought to her. I still say that just because you felt it was "obvious" that her role was objectively the best because she had the opportunity to pick first doesn't necessitate you pointing that out. I'm also confused about your motivation for doing it in the sense that you mentioned that you only wanted a yes or no, not an actual claim, but on the other hand you also said that you were giving her an opening to claim comfortably. Which was it? Again, I feel that she could have easily claimed without having someone give her an opening, and that at best, asking her that question exposed her strategy quite early in the game.

These two posts aren't terrible, but.. Still, no opinions, no real anything other than disagreeing and back-and-forth with mutantdevle.

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Her last post before her posts become spaced by 48 hour pads. And it's just fluff. Disappointing.

Sorry, I've been reading but apparently didn't post recently. Nothing much has changed for me, I want to lynch Mutant but would also be down for a pisskop lynch.

"Just gonna keep flying under the radar here, nothing's changed btw, still wanting to lynch mutantdevle. Oh also down for pisskop since it seems people are starting to sway that way. No opinion given. No reads on anyone else. No specifying if I want to lynch pisskop as a PL or because I scumread him."

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Pretends to be scumhunting, without actually.. asking a question. Asserts that once again she's cool with either lynch and then goes quiet. Again.

To be honest, what I think you are going to learn is:

Jack shit.

Okay this made me lol.

She probably didn't tell you her theory because you didn't claim so it's still just a theory.

Could you share reads without writing walls? I think we have plenty of time in the day, and I for one am curious as to what you think of the current gamestate. I would also, to your point, like to see more/indepth posts from Creature.

T-t-t-triple fluff combo!

The wagon on mutant built pretty quickly, what information do you hope to gain from it if he is town?

Like if there's days of discussion leading up to a lynch, that's one thing, but he was wagoned really early on and the pace of the game since then has been fairly slow. I guess all lynches offer some information though.

Suddenly seems somewhat opposed to lynching mutantdevle? Doesn't specify why or even clarify that that's the case, just kind of.. implies that it wouldn't give information. Or perhaps doesn't understand how to gain information from lynches.

The wagon on mutant built pretty quickly, what information do you hope to gain from it if he is town?

Who's scum on his wagon?

No crap, but how?

Similar to the above, doesn't seem to understand how someone's flip can help determine the alignment of people who are on the wagon and help give scrutiny to their arguments. That's NAI though, I guess.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

Yes, he'd troll this aggressively as scum, by the way. That's pisskop, always.
She mentions that she doesn't think he's scum, and that she wants to lynch him as a policy lynch.

REMEMBER THIS.

Especially because in D2, policy lynching pisskop while scumreading mutantdevle

is the biggest part of her case on me.

I don't think he's a liability, atleast not the biggest liability.

Who would you say is the biggest liability then?

I don't think he's a liability, atleast not the biggest liability.

Who would you say is the biggest liability then?

Anyone who somehow got to the conclusion pisskop and mutant are both scum with me as scum defending them and still somehow defends it without ever doubting.

Which is who? I feel like you're making soft pushes without really naming names, and leaving yourself room to change your mind later.

Says Creature is making soft pushes and not really naming names in order to change his mind later... While doing the exact same thing. Remember, she hasn't given a single read this game so far, and we're almost to post 500! She hasn't even MENTIONED anyone else in this game other than mutantdevle, pisskop, Aster, and Creature.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

FoS @ Lalendra. Pisskop is now playing the game and has been for a while. My problem with him right now is he is question dodging and generally not gamesolving.

But I didn't say that he wasn't playing the game....

I LOVE this awkward interaction between Chip Butty and Lalendra. When Lalendra flips scum, I say we look at Chip next.

Well we only need one more person to vote pk to get a lynch, since Mutant already said he would hammer. So to those of you who aren't voting pk, why? What would convince you to move your vote?

A NL would suck as we wouldn't gain any information at all today so let's not let the day go to waste.

Still doesn't mention anyone other than mutant and pk, still not scumhunting. Just asserting that NLs suck and that someone should get on the PK wagon. Then..

DAY TWO

What? We're already here? That's it? If you thought Day One was fluffy and empty, just waiiiit for this shit.
She opens up strong, with..

Hey guys, when I inevitably get mislynched or NK'd and going through my ISO, remember this: Chip Butty is definitely town.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but why are you so sure?

This is my first PYP; is it common for the numbers to play a large role in gamesolving? I figured that it would be more like a traditional game, in terms of post analysis and associatives, but it seems like the draft order and the numbers people picked are factoring into not only setup spec but also NK spec.

Did I say strong? Oops. Makes sure to open up with "Not that I necessarily disagree," STILL refusing to give us any information on her positions, opinions, reads, ANYTHING. Then asks some generic questions about the setup, blah blah.

Not a fan really of the way Viomi is interacting. Just really seems like they're not putting a lot of critical thought into the process. I'm not so sure I buy scum!creature just yet, the failure to tell us whether he played a PYP in the past doesn't seem inherently scummy to me. Mutant is also becoming less scummy as time goes on; not necessarily that the rolefishing seems less scummy to me, moreso that nothing since then has pinged me as scummy and I'm no longer convinced that the question in and of itself was scummy. I guess Mutant is null for now. I would definitely like to hear more from Comm and NSG but not sure I'm willing to call them "suspicious" just yet.

VOTE: viomi

I really could just post this, and this would summarize the entirety of everything she's done Day Two. Bullshit reasons for a bullshit vote, since she sees people are starting to scumread me and there's an easy wagon coming up. She makes sure to sit on the fence on Creature and Mutant, while looking like she's giving reads but she really isn't. Then does the same for Comm and NSG. By the way, that's the first time she's mentioned them this game. Also says she'd "like to hear more from" them. LMFAO.

Mutant, you're more dedicated to the game of mafia than I am to anything in life.

That said, do you think it's possible that there are games that don't contain "Pick Your Power" in the title which may be throwing off your statistics? Also how do replacements, inactivity due to RL circumstances, etc. factor in? I do believe that statistics and meta are valuable but I feel like there are a variety of other, far less predictable forces at play that make it nigh impossible to always accurately predict how a player will behave in a given scenario.

Blah blah blah, fluff fluff fluff, look like I'm helping but really I'm not..

Personally I struggle with meta because while some things are meta tells, calling it out basically either tells the person "okay good, I should keep doing what I'm doing" or "shit, they're on to me, better change it up" so I appreciate your approach of not just laying it all out there right away. I will, however, be interested to see how you use the data to substantiate your claims as the game progresses.

And.. morrre fluff..

@Mutant - Stating a reason is fine if you don't feel it requires explanation. It's up to the people who find your statement unclear to ask for additional details. I personally am not going to explain myself ad nauseam unless people have specific questions because why waste my breath if a simple statement would have sufficed? You're criticizing people for not being clear enough but not asking for any clarification.

@Viomi - While that may be true, a time-stamped digital note to yourself doesn't really help US, does it?

pedit - jfc stop long enough for me to post, I've tried three times now and I keep getting blocked by the "you may want to revise in light of new posts" lmao

Disagrees with mutantdevle here, which is ironic because she then uses the reason she's disagreeing with as a reason to vote me in her later case. Then states the obvious about my reaction test, and fluffcomplains about me posting a lot. The first bit is the important one.

No sure if I can do anything more today, but Viomi's wagon is over.

No, Viomi is at L-1. That is hardly over. Quit trying to protect your buddy.

Yeah I don't like that post at all. Clearly the wagon is far from over, we're still in the middle of discussing it, what on earth would make you say that unless you're just trying to persuade people to look elsewhere with no real reasoning?

Joins texcat in misrepping the fuck out of Creature, lmao.

It sounds like he's interpreting it as sarcasm, as it was intended, but not buying it.

If it walks like a fluffy duck, and quacks like one too...

@Mutant - These posts are the ones I disliked.

271 - Moving vote from Mutant to PK while still saying Mutant was her top SR.
352 - Naked votes Aster, after Aster unvoted PK and voted Mutant - who was still Viomi's top SR.
398 - Says that Mutant's lynch would give us the most info and she's "pretty sure" he's scum - while voting Aster.
517 - 120ish posts later, "Aster is town", votes PK again. Doesn't explain why attitude on Aster shifted.
577 - Says Chip Butty is "definitely town", but doesn't say why.
590 - Naked votes Northside, quoting a post from Aster which says that both Northside and Comm are suspicious. Doesn't explain why she chose North over Comm, or why she is suddenly listening to the reasoning of someone she was previously voting for.

There's a lot of jumping around, very little explanation or clarity, and direct conflict between posts (and sometimes within the same post). I stopped reading the ISO after 590 because frankly I don't feel like dealing with the toxicity.

FINALLY! Some content, right? ...right? Oh, nope. Just bullshit reasons. This is the good part, I promise.

This bit? This one right here?

271 - Moving vote from Mutant to PK while still saying Mutant was her top SR.

Yeah, about that Lalendra, I never said mutantdevle was my top scumread. You know who

did

mention that mutantdevle was their top scumread, and then moved their vote to PK? That's right.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

Oops
The rest of that post is complaining about me not giving much information on my reads when I swap between people, ironically. Hah.

Prod received. Won't have time to read/catch up until later today or tomorrow.

This post is three days after the last one, by the way.
At least she catches up the next day, so she can post this:

Oh and a tip that changed my life on MS: when you highlight part of a post and push quote, it quotes that specific part for you. Yw.

WHAT

WHAT HAVE I BEEN DOING WITH MY LIFE

Yay, fluff.

You're here, care to reply to my response to your "case"? Or are you just going to continue sheeping?

I didn't really feel the need to respond, nothing you said changed my mind. Obviously I read the posts surrounding the ones I quoted, and still found them noteworthy, so I wasn't swayed by your argument since you didn't present any new information.

Translation: She didn't actually read my post, because if she did, she'd know I wasn't presenting new information or even preventing an argument to be swayed by.. Because I spent that post pointing out how blatantly misreppy, hypocritical, ironic, and scummy her "case" was.

Ugh, I would really rather lynch Viomi than Comm. But I will vote Comm if needed to avoid a no-lynch.

What's this? People are starting to move off me to CK? Guess I better casually start the exact same slide over, just how I did from mutantdevle to pisskop. Even the same reasoning too, wanting to avoid a no-lynch.

Yeah, I'm not seeing scum!aster in 1026.

Cool. Me neither.

Is that just a blatant AtE?

I am really glad I read that spoiler text because all of it was amusing but I literally just cackled at

and then swing the veiny engorged bat of justice at the 2nd half of this shitpile

Calls out Creature's AtE, and then some fluff. Which honestly I'd be fine with if this WASN'T ONE OF HER LAST POSTS. That's right, we're reaching the end, sweetheart.

I don't know how I feel about Aster v. Comm. I think there are much scummier people that we can probably agree to lynch *cough*Creature,Viomi*cough* until we sort out whether this is TvT.

Her last post. "I don't know how I feel about that situation. I'm not going to form an opinion or give information. I still think we should lynch Viomi or Creature, though I'm not going to give the reason why I'm suddenly scumreading Creature. I'm also not going to reply or form opinions on literally

anything

happening in this game."

Oh yeah, and she hasn't posted for 50+ hours since then.

Phew! That wasn't near as long as you thought it'd be, huh? Now will you please, please please please help me lynch this ridiculously obvious scum?

[Viomi]

Now, I know how much you all love to ignore my posts, but I promise the above one is worth it. All the case you could ask for.

[Viomi]

Do I need to repeat myself? What you're doing isn't trying to figure out who should be lynched, you're trying to get others to figure it out for you.

Hey Aster, let's get Lalendra today, alright? If she

somehow

flips green (she won't), we'll lynch Creature tomorrow for pulling me away from CommKnight. And if Creature flips red at that point, then we take CK too. Sound good?

[Viomi]

Vote Count 2.12

CommKnight (4) - Aster, Chip Butty, northsidegal, KidAmn, CheekyTeeky
Creature (1) - CityElectric,
northsidegal -
Aster -
texcat -
Viomi (2) - Lalendra, texcat,
mutantdevle -
Chip Butty (2) - mutantdevle, CommKnight
Lalendra (2) - Creature, Viomi,
CheekyTeeky -
CityElectric -
KidAmn -
Prodding Lalendra
Not Voting:
With 12 Alive. Takes 7 To Lynch. 6 To No Lynch.
Deadline Timer (expired on 2017-12-25 07:00:00)

[/color][/b]

I count 5 on CK.

[Viomi]

Also, to anyone doubting my confidence on Lalendra's scumflip: I haven't spent my six years playing this game learning nothing.

[Viomi]

both games i've played with lalendra she's lurked just like this, was lynched and flipped scum.

Cool, so she's probably scum. Glad we agree.

it's probably just a meta thing. in fact, i think both games it was pretty much the same as this – a last minute deadline compromise lynch.

Sweet, so it's REALLY likely then. Awesome. Can't wait to see your vote on her.

i'm not really a fan of lurker lynches – what exactly do we get out of it?

I'm sorry- WHAT???

[Viomi]

flipped town, that is.

Oh okay, that makes more sense.

Wanna link your games with her so I can fact-check that?

Also, I know you won't understand why lynching lurkers is a good idea, since you are.. well, a lurker.

But basically, lurking denies the information town and also is a very common tactic among scum to stay under the radar and avoid getting caught up in all the suspicion and whatnot leading to mislynches.

[Viomi]

both games i've played with lalendra she's lurked just like this, was lynched and flipped scum.

flipped town, that is.

Scumslip, anyone?

[Viomi]

Wait, NSG, are you in eight games right now?

[Viomi]

flipped town, that is.

Oh okay, that makes more sense.

Wanna link your games with her so I can fact-check that?

they were open 695 and micro 747. i don't actually know how to link other games.

Also, I know you won't understand why lynching lurkers is a good idea, since you are.. well, a lurker.

But basically, lurking denies the information town and also is a very common tactic among scum to stay under the radar and avoid getting caught up in all the suspicion and whatnot leading to mislynches.

i'm not a lurker – this is just the only time i've ever been on v/la. i'm not a complete newbie, i understand

why

scum might be lurking, it's just think i think it's a lazy lynch.

So you didn't read my case then. Got it.

Anyways, open 695:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=73693&user_select[]=25147

She is way more town there. She is giving her opinions, she is saying when she gets "warm town fuzzies", she has 74 posts before she dies on D2.

In this game, she has 36. And every single one has less content than her posts in that game.

Micro 747:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73629&user_select[]=25147

This game is only 15 pages. She has 14 posts. She mentions her scumreads, she replies a bit.. Yes she's definitely lurking, but even in that tiny amount of content she manages to give some information on who she thinks is scum and the reason why.

[Viomi]

Oops. Those links don't work. Damn.

Open 695:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=73693

Open 747:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73629

[Viomi]

Can you make more posts like this in the future Viomi? It gives you real town cred to the point I town lean you now.

I always want to make posts like this, I just always get super de-motivated by the idea that the rest of town won't listen to me. Which is pretty counterproductive, because if I was posting like this all the time, maybe people

would

listen to me in my games.

...It's a work in progress.

[Viomi]

it's just think i think it's a lazy lynch.

I blame shit like this.

[Viomi]

But you should really read
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

and

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

if you genuinely think lurking and active lurking aren't extremely scummy or, at the very least, so anti-town to the point where you should lynch every fucking one of them if you want even a chance of winning this game.

[Viomi]

The effectiveness of this tactic is quite impressive if players are not specifically looking for it. It is a common Town mistake to wish for the lynch of people they violently disagree with over the people who post whatever they can to stay on the periphery. However, Towns nowadays are often aware of this behavior and will consider it a major scumtell.

Man, I fucking WISH towns would be aware of this behavior.

[Viomi]

it's just think i think it's a lazy lynch.

I blame shit like this.

i'll vote lalendra to avoid a no-lynch

Aw man, you two sound so similar..

Can we take a look at NSG if they don't decide to be more active and give reads / actually scumhunt tomorrow?

[Viomi]

it's just think i think it's a lazy lynch.

I blame shit like this.

i

am

listening to you and i

did

read your post. i just get a bad feeling about lynching lalendra, both from previous games and from people i suspect being on the wagon / indicating that they'd be okay voting there. i'll vote lalendra to avoid a no-lynch but it still feels off to me.

For example, you could tell us

which

people you're suspecting who are on the wagon or have indicated they'd be okay with voting there. Is it Creature and mutantdevle? Why do you scumread them? Can you pressure them or ask them questions about their behaviors in the future to try and get information out of them?

[Viomi]

Oh, and texcat, before you use this shit to defend yourself,

However, some players manage to justify lurking even as Town. Power roles such as Doctor or Cop may deliberately avoid posting so as to avoid the scum's notice, thereby avoiding the nightly kills until it is time for them to claim.

If you're town, scum already knows you have a powerful PR. They also know we probably have a protection role. So lurking isn't a viable strategy for town!texcat. So texcat, why are you lurking?

PEDIT:

For example, you could tell us which people you're suspecting who are on the wagon or have indicated they'd be okay with voting there. Is it Creature and mutantdevle? Why do you scumread them? Can you pressure them or ask them questions about their behaviors in the future to try and get information out of them?

come on, you of all people should have read my posts. yeah, it's mutant and creature and i've done exactly what you're talking about. look at 1133, 1148, 1354, 1358 just for example.

1133:
The closest you get to any read is sheeping City when he says he dislikes Creature dancing around the Comm wagon. No scumhunting, no real purposeful questions, no reasons for your agreement or anything to add.

1148:
This is actually a pretty decent post, for some reason I thought someone else had posted it because you've been gone. Tiny bit of scumhunting, yay. No reads or opinions still, though.

1354:
Good question at Creature again, regarding Assemble. Still not much else though.

1358:
..Literally fluff.

So great, glad you're doing at least a bit of scumhunting. Now that you're back from V/LA, I hope I can expect more from you? And would you do me a favor and provide a readslist for me?

[Viomi]

Let's talk about Chip. If we can't lynch Viomi, then it's between Chip and CommK for me. I'm not really interested in Lalendra.

Aw man, texcat in here to drop another scumlurk post. Doesn't reply to any of my posts about him, doesn't give reasons why he wants to vote Chip or CK, no reasons why he isn't interested in Lalendra. No comments on my case on her, or why he obviously feels it isn't satisfactory.

[Viomi]

Actually, on that note,

texcat, you think the scumteam is me, Chip, and CK?

[Viomi]

I was hoping to get a response to this

The only conflicts are made up by you attempting to misread you, and then you refuse to continue your ISO because you're not town trying to find scum, you're just scum trying to find enough reasons to make your vote seem justified.

But sadly Lalendra seems dedicated to the cause of refusing to give any information whatsoever.

This is why my vote is on Viomi. Lalendra not only explained her vote when she made it (592), but later, in response to Mutant, detailed the posts from Viomi that she disliked (734). She gave us plenty of information about her vote.

RMFP

I replied to that post, sweetheart. Which you'd know, if you had been reading

my

fucking posts.

[Viomi]

I was hoping to get a response to this

The only conflicts are made up by you attempting to misread you, and then you refuse to continue your ISO because you're not town trying to find scum, you're just scum trying to find enough reasons to make your vote seem justified.

But sadly Lalendra seems dedicated to the cause of refusing to give any information whatsoever.

This is why my vote is on Viomi. Lalendra not only explained her vote when she made it (592), but later, in response to Mutant, detailed the posts from Viomi that she disliked (734). She gave us plenty of information about her vote.

RMFP

I replied to that post, sweetheart. Which you'd know, if you had been reading

my

fucking posts.

Also, guess what, that isn't my case on her. I know you aren't actually interested in finding scum, but I recently posted her entire ISO with responses and reasons why each post is scummy. Isn't that awesome? That I went through all that trouble, just to have you not read it?

[Viomi]

I'm glad you made a single post with some fake (weak at best) reasoning as to why you're voting me (it's because you think Lalendra is town) about two hundred posts ago. Good for you.

[Viomi]

I'm just gonna list some traits here, and you're going to guess if I'm talking about Lalendra or texcat.

• Lurking
  
• Has spent the entirety of D2 contributing nothing other than a weak, bullshit vote on whatever wagon looked easiest at the beginning of the day (me).
  
• Has started slowly shifting over to CK or Chip because those wagons are looking way easier now that opinion of me has generally shifted
  
• Won't read my posts, acts as if they are but then blatantly proves themselves wrong in the same post
  
• Has less than 37 posts
  
• Waffles between Creature, CK and I
  
• Has given literally no reads except like, one time they made shit up to get town off their back
  
• Liked Aster's D1 case on me, which was a case based around me being a lurker. Irony ensues.
  
• Never comments on current events, never says anything that could be too disagreeable
  

• Creature is still on my scum list. I don't object to mutant\comm\chip, but I would still prefer to lynch Viomi.

  Ugh, I would really rather lynch Viomi than Comm. But I will vote Comm if needed to avoid a no-lynch.

  That shit

Answer: I was talking about both of them, obviously

[Viomi]

Oh yeah, I forgot "blatantly contradicts themselves when it comes to their reasons for voting me"

VOTE: Viomi

There's something wrong with the disparity between not knowing that scum could talk before the draft yesterday, and today creating a detailed, point by point list based mostly on the setup about why Misa was NK'd.

which I responded to here

"Viomi played PYP once like 5 years ago, so her not remembering off the top of her head at the beginning of D1 whether scum gets to talk beforehand or not (especially seeing as she was TOWN in that game) somehow contradicts with her knowing more about the setup after reading the wiki page on d2."

Why did you have to get first pick at PR? fml..

And he never replied, of course.

Then later, he said the reason his vote on me is:

@Mutant, I thought that Aster made a pretty good case on Viomi yesterday. (post 467), saying that she wasn't thinking about the game, not really scum hunting and just conveniently reacting to the thread. We've seen that continue today, with all of the ad hominem arguments calling us all morons and quite a bit of omgus.

Ohh, so it's that case that Aster made about how I was lurking and not scumhunting and just casually reacting occasionally. You know, the

exact

thing you and Lalendra are doing right now? Interesting.

But wait, there's more!:

I was hoping to get a response to this

The only conflicts are made up by you attempting to misread you, and then you refuse to continue your ISO because you're not town trying to find scum, you're just scum trying to find enough reasons to make your vote seem justified.

But sadly Lalendra seems dedicated to the cause of refusing to give any information whatsoever.

This is why my vote is on Viomi. Lalendra not only explained her vote when she made it (592), but later, in response to Mutant, detailed the posts from Viomi that she disliked (734). She gave us plenty of information about her vote.

Because he thinks I'm misrepping Lalendra? Even though I'm clearly not.

So I'm not sure if he thinks I'm scum because I refreshed myself on the setup or if he thinks I'm a lurker (lol) or if he is just really convinced Lalendra is town for no apparent reason that he refuses to share.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about the post where he partakes in the dumb draft order number bullshit which later is the reason for the CommKnight wagon, which he says he's cool with:

The question is: Chip or City. Which one of those two is scum?

My guess would be Chip.

But I think the Viomi lynch is better. I think there is a scum among the people who picked 1, and I think that's much more likely than among the people who picked 5. The question should be: Viomi or Aster. And the answer is Viomi.

[Viomi]

The question should be: Viomi or Aster. And the answer is Viomi.

By the way, the question he means here is "Which one is easier to lynch?"

[Viomi]

I guess this is what I expect from texcat regardless of alignment. Atleast texcat has been genuine.

You call that genuine?

[Viomi]

I don't think texcat is competent enough to plan her posts as scum.

Which is.. exactly why she directly contradicts herself on her reasons for voting me. Creature, come on now. You have so much opportunity as town, why do you gotta do this to me.

[Viomi]

Also, how the fuck Lalendra is prodded three times and not replaced? So far the games I modded were 3 prods = force-replace.

Elmo doesn't count prods as actual prods if the person is V/LA, it would seem.

Though, I don't think Lalendra was ever V/LA, so..

[Viomi]

It's my job to defend who I townread.

WHY

do you townread texcat?

[Viomi]

Alright, I must admit that there turned out to be a whole lot more behind the Lalendra bandwagon than I expected, though I doubt Creature was aware of anything about that. I still think Creature is just throwing random names around and Viomi is the one who picked up Lalendra.

Lalendra appears to be a whole lot fluffier than I realised. She straight up matches the description of an active lurker except for not being active. Her post 734 does indeed seem hypocritical for the reasons Viomi described.

Lalendra certainly isn't the only lurker around, but her sheer amount of fluff does indeed deserve attention. I still think that CommKnight is the most obvious scum around here, and he still has the biggest bandwagon (and building a bandwagon is necessary this close to the end of the day), but I'm willing to "compromise" and move my vote to Lalendra to avoid a no-lynch.

FoS: Lalendra

(Will move my vote if the Lalendra bandwagon overtakes CommKnight.)

CK is the biggest wagon because scum is happy with an easy push. You're only making it easier, honestly.

[Viomi]

Also rip CT.

[Viomi]

@Mod: Can we get another prod on CityElectric?

And I can assume we'll be getting an extension for Cheeky replacing out, right?

[Viomi]

Damn, 24 hours and the only people to most are myself and the mod. Guess this holiday really makes everyone into a lurker..

[Viomi]

post* fuck

[Viomi]

What headache am I supposed to have?

The kind you get from being annoyed that my post-by-post ISO of Lalendra hasn't gotten a single vote to move off the CK wagon which is fueled by "his logic is bad" and "he's scummy!!"

[Viomi]

It's almost four days since Lalendra posted, and now CK + Chip will be needing prods as well.

Man, I hate Christmas..

[Viomi]

So why isn't Lalendra scum, Momo?

[Viomi]

So why isn't Lalendra scum, Momo?

Because she hasn't posted on the first 4 pages

??

What do you want from me viomi?

I can't scumread someone who I haven't gotten around to reading yet.

Don't vote until you finish reading, please.

[Viomi]

And you got pretty confident on mutant and me being scum? lol

Dude, I know for a fact you are scum. Boi, 99 posts are all I need.

For those who are not scum.

The beginning posts are filled with slip ups. Statistically, the beginning is when scum messes up the most. Believe me, I spent like 80 minutes analyzing those 4 pages.

I know you scum boi. We lynching MD today and you tomorrow.

Sorry for not taking you seriously, mister joined earlier this year, but my 8 years says the first four pages are not, statistically speaking, where scum mess up the most.

I'm sorry you.. somehow feel extremely confident after the first four pages, but that just looks like scum joining a game and trying to reclaim it for his team when his team is already under crosshairs. So thanks for making me lean slightly closer to town on mutant, creature, and chip.

[Viomi]

Hey guys

What’s shaking?

UNVOTE:

I’ll try to catch-up by tonight!

Welcome! Thank you for doing the sane thing and unvoting before you begin your catch-up.

[Viomi]

Hey guys

What’s shaking?

UNVOTE:

I’ll try to catch-up by tonight!

Welcome! Thank you for doing the sane thing and unvoting before you begin your catch-up.

Extremely sorry you had to replace into an already-caught scumslot, though.

[Viomi]

why do you think cheeky was scum, viomi? granted, i'm pretty bad historically at reading her, but her play this game has seemed pretty close to what i know as her towngame.

Firstly, Uzi replaced Lalendra, not cheeky.

Second, her flip flops and whatnot were ridiculously scummy

[Viomi]

And thanks for confirming my scumread on your slot Uzi, feels good

[Viomi]

Oh, and don't townread me for my emotion and toxicity, townread me for doing some dope scumhunting and not jumping on the easy CK wagon. Scum!me would've totally just taken that opportunity rather than go out of my way to point out how scum your slot is.

Just info for everyone: still think the scumteam is looking like Lalendra (now Uzi), texcat, and then the third slot is one of the following:

• Cheeky (Momo)
  
• Chip
  
• CK
  
• CityElectric
  
• Kidamn

Figuring out who resists lynching the first two the most will reveal who last scum is.

[Viomi]

Oh shit it's my birthday

We'll see you all later,

V/LA until the end of today

Please vote the Lalendra / Uzi slot, town, and if I'm not back before night, please protect me doc because scum is not gonna be happy with me pushing Uzi so hard

[Viomi]

By end of today I meant real life day, not... Game day. Oops.

[Viomi]

Oh, and don't townread me for my emotion and toxicity, townread me for doing some dope scumhunting and not jumping on the easy CK wagon. Scum!me would've totally just taken that opportunity rather than go out of my way to point out how scum your slot is.

Just info for everyone: still think the scumteam is looking like Lalendra (now Uzi), texcat, and then the third slot is one of the following:

• Cheeky (Momo)
  
• Chip
  
• CK
  
• CityElectric
  
• Kidamn

Figuring out who resists lynching the first two the most will reveal who last scum is.

Add mutant to this list, forgot to since he delayed hammering me for so long

[Viomi]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

[Viomi]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

Many of us disagree. I'd also like to see more from LUV before we lynch that slot.

You just said you agreed with me. What changed about Lalendra's slot to make you disagree? momo coming in and being just as / even more scummy?

[Viomi]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

Many of us disagree. I'd also like to see more from LUV before we lynch that slot.

You just said you agreed with me. What changed about Lalendra's slot to make you disagree? momo coming in and being just as / even more scummy?

Wait, sorry, I got confused about who replaced who since my vote is on momo at the moment for some reason.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[Viomi]

Must've just been a VC error.. @Elmo

as my last vote was, indeed, on Lalendra.

[Viomi]

Although I don't like Chip, who is mostly posting stupid comments which have an uncanny mix of being both evading and confrontational, I don't think that he's as scummy as CommKnight, scumbuddyish as Creature, or as active lurkish as Lalendra (now Uzi).

Comparing Lalendra to Chip, Lalendra had a far more clear pattern of actively lurking and granting absolutely no information whatsoever. Chip also has a pattern of avoiding giving information, but does so in a confrontational manner. I don't like his confrontational manner, but I don't see what mafia has to gain by insulting instead of answering questions when at L-2. On the other hand, this is not the kind of behaviour I feel like we should let Chip get away with.

It looks like we won't be getting CommKnight lynched today. As such, I may as well UNVOTE: CommKnight. On a side note, it's been four and a half days since CommKnight's last post.

@Mod:

prod please?

As for Uzi, the replacement for Lalendra, it looks like he may have started to contribute by now. That does not change the issue of whether Lalendra's blatant active lurking was motivated by scum, but it does make me no longer consider him a lurker. It does feel a bit mean to lynch him over the actions of his previous incarnation which he can't do anything about.

That said, mafia is about who is scum and not about what is mean. Between Chip and Lalendra, I think that Lalendra's lurking is more indicative of being scum than Chip is. Moreover, with scumking CommKnight having pushed hard for the Chip wagon, I'm kind of sceptical of it. Thus, for now, I'll compromise VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert.

Lurking isn’t alignment indicative but I’m going to partly put to that the side for a bit. Why is dealing with situations in an aggressive way more likely to come from town than scum? I think it would be more helpful if you explored why Chip’s behavior is argumentative or hostile and determine if said behavior is genuine and what motivation behind it if any.

Lurking is 10000% alignment indicative.

[Viomi]

@Chip: Did you not read the post where I replied to Lalendra's entire ISO? Her entrance is literally her only good post. You attempting to bring that up as if she wasn't super scum the whole time is sus.

[Viomi]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

[Viomi]

@Viomi: lurking isn't AI, because RL.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

[Viomi]

And it's not just about her not posting very much, it's about the few posts that she uses to dodge prods being completely fluff. More akin to:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

[Viomi]

Which is very different from you attempting to participate in the game and whatnot while you're here.

[Viomi]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

Many of us disagree. I'd also like to see more from LUV before we lynch that slot.

You just said you agreed with me. What changed about Lalendra's slot to make you disagree?

@mutant: Can you answer this?

[Viomi]

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Asking questions again. States clear position on lynching Mutant or Pisscop. Suspicious of Creature. I don't have problems with any of that. Sure, it's not hugely original, but that's NAI for L.

First post has no questions, in fact is entirely fluff.

Second post has no questions, just says she'd be willing to lynch either of them and criticizes Aster for jumping over when.. she jumps between the two as well.

Your "assessment" is already blatantly biased and incorrect, trying to make her look more town. Why is this?

That's total BS. In that first post, L pokes repeatedly at Mutant, makes pointed comments about Creature and Wilky, and asks a question at the end. It's virtually fluff free.

Where's their question? There's not a single question mark in there.

The first post isn't even AI pokes, and she's not poking at mutant, she's poking at creature. "poking" as in just saying she thinks it's funny that he keeps treating mutant like a new player when mutant claims not to be.

It's 100% fluff.

[Viomi]

Well, it seems like this game is going to be progressing at a good clip. Hi all, back from Thanksgiving shenanigans and ready to dive in.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

I agree with Aster's reasoning here, I really really don't like the rolefishing Mutant is doing. It's wayyyy too early in the game for that and is not at all beneficial to town. Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?

Luckily for me, my placement in the list allowed me to choose my role more comfortably. Whether or not I received said role or what role I was after I am unwilling to disclose at this time.

So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?

I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

wow, finally getting this started - it feels like it's been over a month since i signed up.

Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.

Free towncred if you can find each.

12 & 16?

Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.

why did you answer it, then?

I would like an answer to this as well.

Ugh, that rolefishing.

mutant, have you tried a newbie before?

I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.

I almost think that Creature is a scumbuddy who is trying to help out Mutant, and Mutant is just too prideful to take the bait.

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

I don't know how I feel about this, he acknowledges the issue with Mutant but it seems obligatory, like he just has to acknowledge what's going on.

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Can you explain this a bit more? These are both RVS votes, surely your reads have to have developed a little more since then. Also, why are you just now answering this question, which was already pointed out by Mutant as seemingly obvious fishing for towncred?

@Viomi: there are 2 questions in the last para.

Ah, no, that wasn't the post you quoted and then I responded to. This is Lalendra's first post, not the first post you quoted in that post that I was replying to and you claimed there were questions in. Nice attempt at a save though.

[Viomi]

Anyways, scumteam is Lalendra + texcat + Chip. GG.

[Viomi]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

[Viomi]

Suspects for today should be CK, Creature, texcat, and Mutant, in that order. Don't forget the early role fishing. Sometimes VIs roll scum.

Later...

Annnnd why'd you take Lalendra off that list? Your light perusal of her ISO gained you a couple fluff posts which you lied about and her one good post, her entrance post. Was that enough for you to remove her from your suspect list entirely?

[Viomi]

Don't forget the early role fishing.

Sure, mutant was rolefishing his scumbuddy...

Right?? lmfao

[Viomi]

Also I love how Chip has never given his opinion on texcat until right now where he's on the lynch list just for good measure, right in the middle just in case texcat dies at some point so he can get towncred.

[Viomi]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

Yes they can

I have. The wiki isn’t gospel my friend. It’s just a guide for beginners to understand the basics. Most of the theory on there is very outdated in practice because the majority of players have realized that town commit “scum tells” just as frequently as scum do and vice-versa.

Umm.. So how do you get your reads if not scumtells and towntells?

[Viomi]

VOTE: Chip
You should know better than this.

I personally think Mutant is newbtown. Not sure on anyone else yet.

I would be fine with lynching either Pisskop or mutant.

UNVOTE:
North. Please share your theory.

UNVOTE:
North. Please share your theory.

Assembler, do you have any thoughts to share? All you've said is that you thought Mutant was newbtown, but you were ok with his lynch?

I will occasionally help lynch someone whom I townread if I believe the wagon can be mined for data.

Also in before people now claim pisskop is also a scum buddy since he is defending my point on asking if textcat wants to role claim.

Wait, what? Where is he doing that?

Post 415.

I don't see it.

I'm willing to do it.
VOTE: Pisskop
Let this day not be wasted.

Happy birthday, Creature!
Poisoning appears to be just Elmo being creative.

VOTE: Viomi
Despite their claims, they're actually looking less knowledgeable about Pick Your Power vs. Pick Your Poison than they did at the start.

Tex, this is the entire Assembler ISO. What makes him green?

Actually, speaking of Assembler, texcat still hasn't explained why she coloured him green...

tex?

Actually, I've been sispicious of texcat since back here, when the Viomi wagon was the main game.

Show me where Lalendra was on my scumlist?

It is very very worrying if Lalendra ISN'T on your scumlist.

[Viomi]

Also I love how Chip has never given his opinion on texcat until right now where he's on the lynch list just for good measure, right in the middle just in case texcat dies at some point so he can get towncred.

How do i get towncred from texcat's death unless she is scum? Did you just scumslip lol?

"unless she is scum"

She's scum, duh

[Viomi]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

Yes they can

I have. The wiki isn’t gospel my friend. It’s just a guide for beginners to understand the basics. Most of the theory on there is very outdated in practice because the majority of players have realized that town commit “scum tells” just as frequently as scum do and vice-versa.

Umm.. So how do you get your reads if not scumtells and towntells?

I hunt for motivation. I try to see and understand the intention behind an action. If there is motivation for an action from either alignment, I use experience to determine likelihood.

You do realize scumtells and towntells are telling of motivation behind posts, right..?

[Viomi]

Like, you literally just described scumtells as your alternative to scumtells.

[Viomi]

No but now that I have you for a second, I noticed that you’ve yet to really explain what motivates scum to active lurk and post fluff. I have a feeling that you can’t so are there any other reasons why you think my slot is scum?

Uhhh.. actually I've explained this multiple times, which you'd know if you would read the game.

[Viomi]

I've also linked the wiki for this game, which also explains it, but you've discredited it for some reason after just over a year of playing. Lmao.

[Viomi]

The above is all I can find.

You believe her motivation was not to give town any information and to avoid being prodded. Now ask yourself, how do those things help her look town? How do they help her avoid suspicion and stay alive? How do they help scum manipulate others and distort things?

Because bad players like you allow them to live and pretend it isn't AI.

Also, clearly you still aren't reading. There's a post where I literally go through her entire ISO.

Anyways, read that active lurking link because clearly if you're asking these questions, you still haven't.

[Viomi]

I’m being a bit of a broken record here because I think you’re tunneled and refusing to re-evaluate because you like what you read from the Wiki.

Just think about what’s scum win-con and how they realistically go about achieving it? When’s the last time you’ve seen scum active lurk and fluff their way to victory?

Uhh... I've seen it in at least 8 of my games.

[Viomi]

Also you telling me to play is kind of hilarious, please don't talk down to people who have been playing for years longer than you.

[Viomi]

Like, you're saying "pfft, scum could never active lurk because town would lynch them! therefore we shouldn't lynch them"

Which is.. you know, exactly why active lurking would work?? You're literally proving yourself wrong.

[Viomi]

Hmmm...you would think that with too many of us playing sheep we'd be able to lynch someone. As it is, we have less than 2 days left (again) and no one seems to agree on a lynch.

Ah, once again, another active lurker post with no reads, no information for town. Gotta love those scummy fluffposts.

[Viomi]

Anyways, my vote isn't moving. Lil Uzi coming in and trying to pretend like active lurking isn't a common scum tactic is just proving to me even moreso that their slot is scum. If I had any doubts about Lalendra before, they've been completely wiped out. Let's lynch this scum, yeah? We can talk about Chip and texcat tomorrow.

[Viomi]

Oh and doc, when Lil Uzi flips scum, be sure to protect me, yeah? Thanks babe ;*

[Viomi]

Chip's reads are so off, I can't even begin to understand them from a town perspective. Tempted to say I'll hammer if that wagon wins out over LUV (even though LUV is pretty much confscum over here, come on guys.)

[Viomi]

Yeah no, I stand by my case on Lalendra/LUV. I will not be voting or hammering CK.

[Viomi]

I find Chip scummy enough that I'll hammer him if you guys won't get on the clearly superior wagon.

[Viomi]

Vote Count 2.17

CommKnight (5) - Chip Butty, northsidegal, KidAmn, CityElectric, Aster
Creature (1) - CityElectric
northsidegal -
Aster -
texcat -
Viomi (1) -
mutantdevle -
Chip Butty (4) - mutantdevle, CommKnight, texcat, Momo
Lil Uzi Vert (1) - Viomi,
momo (1) -
CityElectric -
KidAmn -

Not Voting: Lil Uzi Vert
With 12 Alive. Takes 7 To Lynch. 6 To No Lynch.
Deadline Timer (expired on 2017-12-30 07:00:00)

[/color][/b]

Seeing as we're less than 10 hours from the deadline, could you pleaaase make these accurate?

[Viomi]

Anyways, yeah, I dunno if I'll be on in the next 9 hours or not so I really hope you guys consider my case again.

[Viomi]

Viomi, do you want me to switch to Chip? Soon I won't be able to change my vote anymore.

Siiigh. Yeah, please do. I'll hammer if we get another vote on him.

[Viomi]

Viomi, do you want me to switch to Chip? Soon I won't be able to change my vote anymore.

Viomi, do you want me to switch to Chip? Soon I won't be able to change my vote anymore.

Siiigh. Yeah, please do. I'll hammer if we get another vote on him.

Lol, it's getting hard to sort the scum from the idiots. Someone, please hammer. This is the dumbest town I've ever been in.

We're

dumb town? Excuse me? We didn't lurk half the game and refuse to give town any useful information, Chip. Nice try though.

[Viomi]

i'm assuimg that "someone pelase hammer" means there's nothing to claim.

VOTE: chip butty

what the fuck no

VOTE: northsidegal

texcat can die tomorrow, what the fuck was this northsidegal?

[Viomi]

why is aster not dying

Cause tex needs to die first

[Viomi]

i can see where the hammer comes from
aster/tex > nsg lynch

How can you see where that hammer came from? You always wait for a claim if you're town. What the fuck.

[Viomi]

you really dont see where she could have got it from?
chip said "please hammer"

Sure, and wtf @ chip as well, but you still don't go and hammer because you personally think "please hammer" is a claim and not just ragetown.

[Viomi]

...for fuck sake.

VOTE: northsidegal

Right?? Like, I have some really good ideas about who scum is, but... wtf nsg

[Viomi]

Like, NSG is either really obvious scum or deserves to get PL'd so they never do that shit as town ever again

[Viomi]

Buuut I'd rather win honestly so..

VOTE: Aster

[Viomi]

Claim: Town Neighborizer

since scum already knows this, after all I targeted Aster N1 and I've been chatting with them in our own thread ever since.

They've been super distant and the only

real

response I could get out of them was trying to tell me town probably wouldn't lynch texcat and other excuses why I shouldn't go after texcat sooooo

[Viomi]

Also, person who got the first PR death and is therefore now JK, if you could target and protect me again tonight that'd be dope

[Viomi]

Although not being able to neighborize and get a good town bloc setup is kind of lame, it's kinda pointless now that my N2 has already been blocked so

[Viomi]

• A neighbouriser who only wanted to get me off her case and pocket me;
  
• A sudden CommKnight replacement who gives the impression that she knows what was said in the neighbourhood with Viomi;
  
• Viomi who has been using her neigbourhood powers to desperately get me off the CommKnight bandwagon;
  
• A sudden collaboration with both CommKnight/Sheepy suddenly jumping onto me out of nowhere now I've got clear intentions to move on with the CommKnight wagon.

Uhhhh

Why all the lies?

VOTE: Aster

Clearly I wasn't just trying to get you off my case and pocket you, did you not read any of the things I sent you in the PT? I was attempting to get more information as much as possible and build a town bloc since you were my biggest town read at the time. I was constantly trying to engage you,

you

were the one who gave me super meta responses on "how to play mafia" and refused to give much more than "texcat shouldn't be lynched, town doesn't wanna lynch lurkers" while also fence-sitting on him.

Secondly, where does sheep say they know what was said in our PT? Wtf??

I wasn't going to want to lynch you yet Aster because I was really hoping you were town, but I have a policy to Lynch all Liars, so...

[Viomi]

Oh by the way, we shouldn't lynch NSG. Yes, that hammer was shit, and yes, they're pretty scummy. But texcat is pushing for us to lynch NSG, which means NSG is town because texcat is obvscum.

Sooo.. Aster + texcat scumteam?

[Viomi]

which means NSG is town because texcat is obvscum.

What if texcat is town?

He isn't.

[Viomi]

@Mod: Could you make this easier for us and modkill Aster for directly quoting a PT? Or is that not against the rules?

Anyways, I really don't see how sheep's statement at all hints to knowing about our PT, soo...

[Viomi]

Aster + northsidegal + one of {Lil Uzi Vert, CityElectric}

Leaning LUV

Creature is town by POE, he can't share this many of my scumreads without being town so. Good job Creature.

[Viomi]

I can't believe the jailkeeper was trying to protect him.

her*

Why not? I did kind of ask any protective roles to target me yesterday, lmfao.

[Viomi]

why havent we lynched tex or aster yet

Right??

Yeah I think this is definitely where I wanna go.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

Annnd scumclaim from Lalendra/LUV

we already knew that though

So, Aster/texcat/LUV?

I'm happy to lynch in the order Aster/LUV/texcat for those of you who townread texcat, maybe texcat will stop being a scummy fuck and convince me to hit NSG after those first two.

[Viomi]

sheep, were you following along with / looking at the game before you replaced in?

also, i don't understand why people are scumreading me for the hammer. like, intent was already declared, i honestly thought that chip was saying he had nothing to claim, and

roles don't have anything to do with alignment anyways

. yes, obviously it was a bad outcome but it seems really lazy or even opportunistic to say that just because chip flipped the way that he did that that makes me scum.

NSG, if you genuinely are town and think that was a town play, please go reevaluate your lurking scummy playstyle after this game.

That hammer was a scumclaim. If you are not scum, you have basically wasted a TON of our time and lost this game for us. You hammered him before he claimed. It doesn't matter if he was being ragey and whined "someone please hammer to get this day over", you still wait for a claim. Got it?

[Viomi]

So can we now do northsidegal?

God I hate that I agree with your reads so much and yet your playstyle is the equivalent of waving a sign around and saying "I'm scum! I'm going to be useless and not do any scumhunting, just tell people to go vote these people!"

I don't want to have to do another fucking reread of this game..

[Viomi]

But fine. If NSG flips town, can we please please please hit texcat or LUV? Aster I'm not entirely sure about as they could just be very bad!town not understanding how sheep's comment easily comes without knowing anything about our PT (lmao), but w/e.

VOTE: NSG

That's L-2.

[Viomi]

NSG, if you genuinely are town and think that was a town play, please go reevaluate your lurking scummy playstyle after this game.

That hammer was a scumclaim. If you are not scum, you have basically wasted a TON of our time and lost this game for us. You hammered him before he claimed. It doesn't matter if he was being ragey and whined "someone please hammer to get this day over", you still wait for a claim. Got it?

i mean, don't get me wrong – the hammer was a mistake. i'm really just not sure how much it would have changed because again, roles don't have anything to do with alignment. even if chip claimed jailkeeper, he could've been a scum jailkeeper. i'm pretty sure there were very few hours left in the day, so it didn't seem like any other wagon was going through.

If you're town, follow me.
VOTE: texcat

ew
no nsg wagon pls

I'd much rather listen to you than Creature, so thanks for this.

[Viomi]

I'm tired of settling for slightly-less-scummy players because you guys convince me otherwise.

My lynch options for today are LUV or texcat. My vote will be on one of those two from now until lynch. Not going to let you guys convince me to mislynch NSG because of their dumb hammer or Aster because of their dumb cases.

[Viomi]

If you're town, follow me.

thank you – i was in the middle of typing up a whole paragraph in response to your earlier vote.

VOTE: texcat

Yeah, I did a quick glance back at what has been going on through this thread and realized that harassing you over that hammer isn't going to get us anywhere and is literally a mislynch waiting to happen. You're town, so give us some of your townreads and scumreads in case that vig + nk kicks in harshly.

For me:
Aster is town. Wasting our time with dumb cases with no basis, but still town.
NSG is town. Yes I dislike their playstyle but really I can't see any of what they're doing as scummy. Especially that hammer, I really don't think scum!NSG would risk hammering like that.
sheep is... iffy, but probably town based on their reads and willingness to push texcat who is obvscum
Creature is just flat out null. So much about him screams scum to me with each of his posts, and yet he's not going with the flow and is trying to get who he genuinely thinks is scum lynched. So.. maybe town-lean? I'm just hoping he's town so I don't have to try and actually deal with him at this point.
texcat is scum. I've already made my case, go read my posts if you're curious why he's scum.
LUV is scum. See above.
KidAmn is probably town. I'm a bit iffy on him, he's a bit quiet for my tastes but he seems to be trying to solve this game from a town POV maybe? Tried to target him N2, so maybe he was the one that got blocked and not me.
CityElectric is.. still in this game?? What the fuck?? Well, shit, here's third scum probably. Jesus.
momo is probably town. I hate his playstyle with a BURNING PASSION but whatever. As long as he actually helps us catch scum, he can stay in my townlean pile.

[Viomi]

texcat is scum. I've already made my case, go read my posts if you're curious why she's scum.

EBWOP

[Viomi]

The first time I let you off with suspicion, but now it's a pattern. You are deliberately feigning ignorance about game setup and rules that scum would know, in at attempt to try to townslip. This is a very strong scumtell.

Remember when you said that argument was stupid and now you're making said argument?

Stop helping scum out and pay attention to the game, Aster.

[Viomi]

Also I dunno, it makes sense to me that directly quoting what someone says in a PT would be against the rules, it seems a bit fucked to me that you can directly quote something from private

[Viomi]

Oh, so you weren't calling the argument stupid, you were being stupid. Damn.

Alright, Aster is a lost cause. Pretty sure we can still get majority without him though.

[Viomi]

He's just going to tunnel me for the rest of the day on the basis that I hadn't played this setup in years and that I personally think direct quotes of private messages should be modkillable so.

Really the best we can do is ignore him and hope we can get enough of the rest of town to get their heads out of their asses and vote scum.

[Viomi]

Though I guess Aster isn't completely useless if they'd give us some information..

Hey Aster, gimme your reads on every player in the game please. Particularly your town reads and reasons for them.

[Viomi]

I SR texcat so VOTE: texcat

Sheep me or die

I mean technically I started this so they'd be sheeping me but

[Viomi]

I SR texcat so VOTE: texcat

Sheep me or die

I mean technically I started this so they'd be sheeping me but

Let me have my moment Viomi

(Btw, if you wouldn't find unvoting and voting again so that I can be the first on the wagon so that I can say I led a lynch on scum, that would be nice)

No way, I'm way too vain for that

[Viomi]

God damnit Momo, if you could stop being scummy as fuck and drawing away my townies that would be fantastic

[Viomi]

viomi im psure you only cant quote what the mod tells you, you can quote/fakequote private communication

Yeah I realize that now

[Viomi]

viomi im psure you only cant quote what the mod tells you, you can quote/fakequote private communication

Yeah I realize that now

Mods do things differently and I should've read these rules before asking for a mood kill, my bad

[Viomi]

pagetop?

@Mod: Could you make this easier for us and modkill Aster for directly quoting a PT? Or is that not against the rules?

For? Sharing a PT I'm assuming?

You don't have to assume that when it's exactly what I said in the post you replied to..

[Viomi]

Also that pagetop quote was for me to tell sheep to stop being annoying and inflating their post count

[Viomi]

pagetops are my city

Can you make something more useful your city

Like, scumhunting

[Viomi]

Maybe if I get momo to vote northsidegal Viomi will also join and put northsidegal at L-1.

As I stated, I will not be moving my vote away from the lynchpool of tezcat or luv.

[Viomi]

Also Aster, please stop making yourself look scummy with that shitty readslist. I need every town who wants to be helpful on scum.

Creature, stop trying to mislynch nsg. They only have one vig if any, either I or KidAmn was jailkept last night.

[Viomi]

Although Aster has managed to bump themselves down to a scumlean with those fake TRs on LUV and texcat.. they even liked my case on Lalendra at the time.

PEDIT: nothing, sheep, creature is just freaking out because two of the PR slots that haven't been revealed to him could both be vigs and could both be scum

Though, only one could be vig because either I or KidAmn were jailkept, which means we had a role backup. Which also means can we lynch LUV or tex already because one of them is n3 vig kthx

[Viomi]

Though, only one could be vig because either I or KidAmn were jailkept, which means we had a role backup. Which also means can we lynch LUV or tex already because one of them is n3 vig kthx

Wait, I thought you already claimed to have been jailed lady night. Are you changing your story?

Can you use your brain for one fucking second? Jesus Christ..

[Viomi]

Also gotta love momo literally just sheeping the biggest wagon constantly. I'm blacklisting the fuck out of you if you end up being town, because what the fuck.

[Viomi]

I’ll try to get to this tonight.

I don’t see an issue with the way North hammered but I’m still suspicious of her. Consider my vote there.

I don’t want to lynch North if it’s based on not waiting for a claim.

Smells like a policy lynch.

Probably not. North is pretty decent

Can you explain your read on Northside? What happened in the five minutes between consider my vote there and I don't want to lynch her? And what does pretty decent mean?

Woah, texcat actually looking at conf!scum?? Does this mean town!texcat or is she just trying to distance herself from LUV?

[Viomi]

Probably texcat enabling you and sheep.

Ooh, would you vote texcat with me?

[Viomi]

Oh thank God, my reads don't align with Creature at all anymore so I don't have to feel awkward about him being scum. Sweet.

[Viomi]

I still scum read North. I just don’t agree with the overall basis of the wagon so I rather lynch elsewhere.

I townread texcat and KidAmn and I'm leaning town on momo because Cheeky seemed town.

Yeah no, I'm definitely not the wrong one if you think Cheeky and texcat seem town

[Viomi]

Cheeky I'm not so sure, but texcat I'm sure.

Oh yeah? And what part of his active lurking, no-reads uselessness screams town to you?

[Viomi]

Her** sorry, she's barely partaking in the game so I keep forgetting her gender.

[Viomi]

Yeah for real, why is town helping scum so much this game

[Viomi]

Yeah for real, why is town helping scum so much this game

Yeah, why are you helping scum rn?

I'm at least

attempting

to scumhunt

[Viomi]

Yeah for real, why is town helping scum so much this game

Yeah, why are you helping scum rn?

I'm at least

attempting

to scumhunt

If you were attempting to scumhunt you would never townread someone because someone else you scumread is voting him/her.

Uhhhh

lmfao?

[Viomi]

Mod

Can you replace out CityElectric? It's clearly he doesn't want to play, it's gonna be his fourth prod already.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you're supposed to replace them out after two, this is getting ridiculous..

[Viomi]

texcat

genuine.

l m f a o

[Viomi]

For those not sheep and Viomi, what’s wrong with Aster’s case?

Did you read it?

[Viomi]

Yeah, it deserves more praise. North case is shit, tex case is shit.

You only think the tex case is bad because you're his scumbuddy and the reasons he's scummy are the same reason your predecessor was scummy.

[Viomi]

How am I supposed to respond to your claim that he somehow knew what we were talking about in his PT? I'm pretty sure scum don't have day talk so..

[Viomi]

Uhh. Yeah, Fitz, you might want to take a list of current affairs. Aster is the last person I'd sus after a scum!viomi flip, especially with him being the only one to push me

Also sorry hon we've gotten past the point of information lynches, let's get scum instead

[Viomi]

@Aster: why are you lying about there being a solid case on CK yesterday? The"case" boiled down to "oh he feels scummy"

[Viomi]

Hey town, remember what happened when you listened to Creature and texcat's alternative lynch option D2 and they flipped town? Yeah let's not do that again

[Viomi]

@Aster: why are you lying about there being a solid case on CK yesterday? The"case" boiled down to "oh he feels scummy"

Will you stop being a hypocritical misrepresenting liar already?

I have written out a detailed case against CommKnight in post 958 and been expanding that case for a few more. And what are you doing? Have

you

ever written out a case against texcat? The only thing

you

are ever saying against anyone but Lalendra is some variant of "you're scummy/dumb/lurky".

The post I'm quoting should apply to YOU instead.

Uh, nope! I actually did write a case. Shut up and read my posts, thanks.

[Viomi]

Also yeah that case on CommKnight is pretty shit

[Viomi]

also aster
that case was refuted in the next post

Let me get this straight. You call the following a refutation?

TL;DR: Reads change. Aster is the fluffiest poster here all concluding in diddily squat.

Yeah actually, his refutation seems pretty spot on actually.

[Viomi]

Like, sure your posts are nice and big but you're just as much as an active lurker as Lalendra was. There's no actual scumhunting anywhere. You use like five paragraphs and a bunch of math for some reason to misrepresent some CK posts that really just look like "mutant is scum let's Lynch him" to "I still scumread the fuck out of him but I want to protect my PRs.."

And look what happened, CK was right, mutant flipped green PR. Soooo.

[Viomi]

Oh btw if anyone is curious about my reaction test on Chip Butty, it's on my Aster PT

[Viomi]

^ can i locktown this

Town Bloc ftw?

[Viomi]

What's the townblock? Hopefully there's no impurity inside it.

Yeah I definitely can't have you in it then, hrrm..

[Viomi]

@Aster: why are you lying about there being a solid case on CK yesterday? The"case" boiled down to "oh he feels scummy"

Will you stop being a hypocritical misrepresenting liar already?

I have written out a detailed case against CommKnight in post 958 and been expanding that case for a few more. And what are you doing? Have

you

ever written out a case against texcat? The only thing

you

are ever saying against anyone but Lalendra is some variant of "you're scummy/dumb/lurky".

The post I'm quoting should apply to YOU instead.

Uh, nope! I actually did write a case. Shut up and read my posts, thanks.

Since you won't read posts without me doing the work of pulling them up for you:

Alright. This is going to be a big post. Well, not too big since Lalendra has lurked the fuck out of this game, but whatever. Below, I am going to reply to every. single. one. of Lalendra's posts this game. Her entire ISO. For Day One, and Day Two. She has done no scumhunting. She has started no wagons. She has given very, very few reads. And she is who we should lynch today. Ready? Alright, here we go.

Spoiler: The entirety of Lalendra's ISO

Well, it seems like this game is going to be progressing at a good clip. Hi all, back from Thanksgiving shenanigans and ready to dive in.

Curious is how quickly you backtrack on asking for a roleclaim. Northside

hadn't even said a word

and you already felt like you needed to defend yourself with "no, I totally wasn't asking for roleclaims!". It gives the impression that

you knew

that you just committed a scum action.

---

There is one more curious thing about asking for roles: suppose Tex would claim her role. We, as townies, wouldn't have a clue whether her role was town or not. The mafia, however, would know—and if Tex is town (like you

somehow

silently assumed in post #35), then its all the more power to them. Roleclaiming seems kinda more beneficial to mafia than to town.

---

I would vote you, but my vote is already on you from the RVS, so I shall do the following:

UNVOTE: mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle4reals

I agree with Aster's reasoning here, I really really don't like the rolefishing Mutant is doing. It's wayyyy too early in the game for that and is not at all beneficial to town. Even less beneficial is the way in which Mutant pointed out who should be the first NK, like are you kidding me?

Luckily for me, my placement in the list allowed me to choose my role more comfortably. Whether or not I received said role or what role I was after I am unwilling to disclose at this time.

So you acknowledge that you are unwilling to disclose your role; why would you feel that Tex may have been willing to do so?

I hadn't previously considered the possibility of scum taking roles to prevent town having them. Possibly because I'm someone who prefers to boost one's own team rather than subtracting from the other.

Look at this. I mean REALLY LOOK AT IT. He draws a parallel between the two and basically says "As scum, I prefer to boost my own team rather than try to subtract from town by taking their PR's away."

wow, finally getting this started - it feels like it's been over a month since i signed up.

Leaving here that I detected so far one post that looks very forced and one post that looks very genuine.

Free towncred if you can find each.

12 & 16?

Also I get the feeling this question is to just test for people who want to appear townie.

why did you answer it, then?

I would like an answer to this as well.

Ugh, that rolefishing.

mutant, have you tried a newbie before?

I don't like this. His join date is a month ago but he already said earlier in the thread that he has plenty of experience playing mafia, and in case that wasn't clear, he even refutes your noob claim later:

What I'm worried about mutantdevle is that he has no idea of how mafia works here. So I'm thinking his rolefishing is town motivated even if it's pretty bad.

I’m familiarising myself with how things work on this site. I’m yet to complete a game here but I am currently in 3 of them. On the EE forums however I have played at least 6 games and even hosted one. The mafia culture there is a lot different though. So basically I’m not completely inexperienced and I wouldn’t want anyone to discard me as that.

I almost think that Creature is a scumbuddy who is trying to help out Mutant, and Mutant is just too prideful to take the bait.

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

I don't know how I feel about this, he acknowledges the issue with Mutant but it seems obligatory, like he just has to acknowledge what's going on.

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Can you explain this a bit more? These are both RVS votes, surely your reads have to have developed a little more since then. Also, why are you just now answering this question, which was already pointed out by Mutant as seemingly obvious fishing for towncred?

Ah, her first post. This is probably her towniest post, and it's what she's been riding off of. She looks like she's scumhunting (she isn't, she doesn't follow up on anything she asks here), she gives some bullshit opinions like how Aster's RVS vote seems forced (lmao what), and she goes after mutantdevle because

everyone

is going after mutantdevle and he's already making himself out to be the easy target for D1.

What's that? Her

towniest

post is this garbage? Yeeepppp.

Oh and
VOTE: Mutantdevle

She then adds on a vote from mutantdevle, which was easy to see coming..

I do not accept I was role fishing I was simply asking a fish if they'd be willing to jump out of the water. I had no intention of throwing my hook into the water if she said no.

This just sounds like semantics.

Texcat had free choice of role. She had the freedom to choose absolutely any role on the list without worry that someone else may take the role. As a result, she could choose whichever role she thought was the strongest.

Hence she potentially has the strongest and most valuable role in the game.

Fake claiming as something either less useful or potentially damaging for the mafia if they were to target her could prevent them from doing so. Personally,

I would consider the act of fake claiming as a little selfish

since there are the dangers of someone CC and it would divert the kill to someone else but I put the option there for if she wanted to take it.

Either way, starting a conversation about her role is anti-town, to me. If she has the strongest and most valuable role in the game, why bring attention to it? You said it might benefit town to know what it was, but it also benefits scum. And then you say fake-claiming would be selfish, but by bringing up the topic of her claim (whether you think it was role-fishing or not is irrelevant), you are leading to one or the other of those eventualities. If she indicates she doesn't want to claim, you have still cast a spotlight on her, turning her into lynchbait if she is town, and thereby potentially losing one of our biggest assets.

What I don't understand is that Mutant keeps going back to "I was giving her the option to roleclaim." Everyone has the option to roleclaim at any point in the game, she didn't need your permission to do it. And you misunderstood what I said about her being lynchbait. I didn't say that a fakeclaim would make her lynchbait; I said that whether she fakeclaims or claims or doesn't claim, SHE IS NOW LYNCHBAIT purely because you brought attention to her. Whether or not scum would have drawn that conclusion on their own is irrelevant; you didn't need to point it out to them. At best it's anti-town.

She makes the easy argument everyone had already made, which is "rolefishing is bad kay". These posts aren't absolutely terrible, at least. Just, you know. Easy.

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

Yeah, I really don't like 171 either but like...that's just SUCH obvious buddying. It's hard to see it as anything else but my god that would be blatant if that's what it was.

No opinion, no rebuttal, no agreement. Just fluff comment. This becomes a heavy theme in Lalendra's posts from here on out, by the way.

Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Was your post in which you said "lynchbait is bait to be lynched" not sarcastic? That was how I read it.
And I misspoke when I used that term I think. What I meant to say is that she is more likely to be either lynched or NK'd because of the attention brought to her. I still say that just because you felt it was "obvious" that her role was objectively the best because she had the opportunity to pick first doesn't necessitate you pointing that out. I'm also confused about your motivation for doing it in the sense that you mentioned that you only wanted a yes or no, not an actual claim, but on the other hand you also said that you were giving her an opening to claim comfortably. Which was it? Again, I feel that she could have easily claimed without having someone give her an opening, and that at best, asking her that question exposed her strategy quite early in the game.

These two posts aren't terrible, but.. Still, no opinions, no real anything other than disagreeing and back-and-forth with mutantdevle.

I find it funny that Creature keeps referring to mutant being newbtown when a) they've played on another site together and b) mutant has made it very clear that he is not new, that he has played before, and that he does not want to be discounted as a new player.

Her last post before her posts become spaced by 48 hour pads. And it's just fluff. Disappointing.

Sorry, I've been reading but apparently didn't post recently. Nothing much has changed for me, I want to lynch Mutant but would also be down for a pisskop lynch.

"Just gonna keep flying under the radar here, nothing's changed btw, still wanting to lynch mutantdevle. Oh also down for pisskop since it seems people are starting to sway that way. No opinion given. No reads on anyone else. No specifying if I want to lynch pisskop as a PL or because I scumread him."

Aster, I don't think I understand why you were pushing an answer regarding pisskop's lynch, and then suddenly decided to switch from him to Mutant.

That said, I would be willing to lynch either of them, so I guess my vote stays where it is until the end of the day gets closer.

Pretends to be scumhunting, without actually.. asking a question. Asserts that once again she's cool with either lynch and then goes quiet. Again.

To be honest, what I think you are going to learn is:

Jack shit.

Okay this made me lol.

She probably didn't tell you her theory because you didn't claim so it's still just a theory.

Could you share reads without writing walls? I think we have plenty of time in the day, and I for one am curious as to what you think of the current gamestate. I would also, to your point, like to see more/indepth posts from Creature.

T-t-t-triple fluff combo!

The wagon on mutant built pretty quickly, what information do you hope to gain from it if he is town?

Like if there's days of discussion leading up to a lynch, that's one thing, but he was wagoned really early on and the pace of the game since then has been fairly slow. I guess all lynches offer some information though.

Suddenly seems somewhat opposed to lynching mutantdevle? Doesn't specify why or even clarify that that's the case, just kind of.. implies that it wouldn't give information. Or perhaps doesn't understand how to gain information from lynches.

The wagon on mutant built pretty quickly, what information do you hope to gain from it if he is town?

Who's scum on his wagon?

No crap, but how?

Similar to the above, doesn't seem to understand how someone's flip can help determine the alignment of people who are on the wagon and help give scrutiny to their arguments. That's NAI though, I guess.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

Yes, he'd troll this aggressively as scum, by the way. That's pisskop, always.
She mentions that she doesn't think he's scum, and that she wants to lynch him as a policy lynch.

REMEMBER THIS.

Especially because in D2, policy lynching pisskop while scumreading mutantdevle

is the biggest part of her case on me.

I don't think he's a liability, atleast not the biggest liability.

Who would you say is the biggest liability then?

I don't think he's a liability, atleast not the biggest liability.

Who would you say is the biggest liability then?

Anyone who somehow got to the conclusion pisskop and mutant are both scum with me as scum defending them and still somehow defends it without ever doubting.

Which is who? I feel like you're making soft pushes without really naming names, and leaving yourself room to change your mind later.

Says Creature is making soft pushes and not really naming names in order to change his mind later... While doing the exact same thing. Remember, she hasn't given a single read this game so far, and we're almost to post 500! She hasn't even MENTIONED anyone else in this game other than mutantdevle, pisskop, Aster, and Creature.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

FoS @ Lalendra. Pisskop is now playing the game and has been for a while. My problem with him right now is he is question dodging and generally not gamesolving.

But I didn't say that he wasn't playing the game....

I LOVE this awkward interaction between Chip Butty and Lalendra. When Lalendra flips scum, I say we look at Chip next.

Well we only need one more person to vote pk to get a lynch, since Mutant already said he would hammer. So to those of you who aren't voting pk, why? What would convince you to move your vote?

A NL would suck as we wouldn't gain any information at all today so let's not let the day go to waste.

Still doesn't mention anyone other than mutant and pk, still not scumhunting. Just asserting that NLs suck and that someone should get on the PK wagon. Then..

DAY TWO

What? We're already here? That's it? If you thought Day One was fluffy and empty, just waiiiit for this shit.
She opens up strong, with..

Hey guys, when I inevitably get mislynched or NK'd and going through my ISO, remember this: Chip Butty is definitely town.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but why are you so sure?

This is my first PYP; is it common for the numbers to play a large role in gamesolving? I figured that it would be more like a traditional game, in terms of post analysis and associatives, but it seems like the draft order and the numbers people picked are factoring into not only setup spec but also NK spec.

Did I say strong? Oops. Makes sure to open up with "Not that I necessarily disagree," STILL refusing to give us any information on her positions, opinions, reads, ANYTHING. Then asks some generic questions about the setup, blah blah.

Not a fan really of the way Viomi is interacting. Just really seems like they're not putting a lot of critical thought into the process. I'm not so sure I buy scum!creature just yet, the failure to tell us whether he played a PYP in the past doesn't seem inherently scummy to me. Mutant is also becoming less scummy as time goes on; not necessarily that the rolefishing seems less scummy to me, moreso that nothing since then has pinged me as scummy and I'm no longer convinced that the question in and of itself was scummy. I guess Mutant is null for now. I would definitely like to hear more from Comm and NSG but not sure I'm willing to call them "suspicious" just yet.

VOTE: viomi

I really could just post this, and this would summarize the entirety of everything she's done Day Two. Bullshit reasons for a bullshit vote, since she sees people are starting to scumread me and there's an easy wagon coming up. She makes sure to sit on the fence on Creature and Mutant, while looking like she's giving reads but she really isn't. Then does the same for Comm and NSG. By the way, that's the first time she's mentioned them this game. Also says she'd "like to hear more from" them. LMFAO.

Mutant, you're more dedicated to the game of mafia than I am to anything in life.

That said, do you think it's possible that there are games that don't contain "Pick Your Power" in the title which may be throwing off your statistics? Also how do replacements, inactivity due to RL circumstances, etc. factor in? I do believe that statistics and meta are valuable but I feel like there are a variety of other, far less predictable forces at play that make it nigh impossible to always accurately predict how a player will behave in a given scenario.

Blah blah blah, fluff fluff fluff, look like I'm helping but really I'm not..

Personally I struggle with meta because while some things are meta tells, calling it out basically either tells the person "okay good, I should keep doing what I'm doing" or "shit, they're on to me, better change it up" so I appreciate your approach of not just laying it all out there right away. I will, however, be interested to see how you use the data to substantiate your claims as the game progresses.

And.. morrre fluff..

@Mutant - Stating a reason is fine if you don't feel it requires explanation. It's up to the people who find your statement unclear to ask for additional details. I personally am not going to explain myself ad nauseam unless people have specific questions because why waste my breath if a simple statement would have sufficed? You're criticizing people for not being clear enough but not asking for any clarification.

@Viomi - While that may be true, a time-stamped digital note to yourself doesn't really help US, does it?

pedit - jfc stop long enough for me to post, I've tried three times now and I keep getting blocked by the "you may want to revise in light of new posts" lmao

Disagrees with mutantdevle here, which is ironic because she then uses the reason she's disagreeing with as a reason to vote me in her later case. Then states the obvious about my reaction test, and fluffcomplains about me posting a lot. The first bit is the important one.

No sure if I can do anything more today, but Viomi's wagon is over.

No, Viomi is at L-1. That is hardly over. Quit trying to protect your buddy.

Yeah I don't like that post at all. Clearly the wagon is far from over, we're still in the middle of discussing it, what on earth would make you say that unless you're just trying to persuade people to look elsewhere with no real reasoning?

Joins texcat in misrepping the fuck out of Creature, lmao.

It sounds like he's interpreting it as sarcasm, as it was intended, but not buying it.

If it walks like a fluffy duck, and quacks like one too...

@Mutant - These posts are the ones I disliked.

271 - Moving vote from Mutant to PK while still saying Mutant was her top SR.
352 - Naked votes Aster, after Aster unvoted PK and voted Mutant - who was still Viomi's top SR.
398 - Says that Mutant's lynch would give us the most info and she's "pretty sure" he's scum - while voting Aster.
517 - 120ish posts later, "Aster is town", votes PK again. Doesn't explain why attitude on Aster shifted.
577 - Says Chip Butty is "definitely town", but doesn't say why.
590 - Naked votes Northside, quoting a post from Aster which says that both Northside and Comm are suspicious. Doesn't explain why she chose North over Comm, or why she is suddenly listening to the reasoning of someone she was previously voting for.

There's a lot of jumping around, very little explanation or clarity, and direct conflict between posts (and sometimes within the same post). I stopped reading the ISO after 590 because frankly I don't feel like dealing with the toxicity.

FINALLY! Some content, right? ...right? Oh, nope. Just bullshit reasons. This is the good part, I promise.

This bit? This one right here?

271 - Moving vote from Mutant to PK while still saying Mutant was her top SR.

Yeah, about that Lalendra, I never said mutantdevle was my top scumread. You know who

did

mention that mutantdevle was their top scumread, and then moved their vote to PK? That's right.

I really don't like pisskop's posts or playstyle this game, but I don't know if he'd be trolling so aggressively as scum. I do think he's a liability to town, and I'm willing to put him at L-2.

VOTE: pisskop

Oops
The rest of that post is complaining about me not giving much information on my reads when I swap between people, ironically. Hah.

Prod received. Won't have time to read/catch up until later today or tomorrow.

This post is three days after the last one, by the way.
At least she catches up the next day, so she can post this:

Oh and a tip that changed my life on MS: when you highlight part of a post and push quote, it quotes that specific part for you. Yw.

WHAT

WHAT HAVE I BEEN DOING WITH MY LIFE

Yay, fluff.

You're here, care to reply to my response to your "case"? Or are you just going to continue sheeping?

I didn't really feel the need to respond, nothing you said changed my mind. Obviously I read the posts surrounding the ones I quoted, and still found them noteworthy, so I wasn't swayed by your argument since you didn't present any new information.

Translation: She didn't actually read my post, because if she did, she'd know I wasn't presenting new information or even preventing an argument to be swayed by.. Because I spent that post pointing out how blatantly misreppy, hypocritical, ironic, and scummy her "case" was.

Ugh, I would really rather lynch Viomi than Comm. But I will vote Comm if needed to avoid a no-lynch.

What's this? People are starting to move off me to CK? Guess I better casually start the exact same slide over, just how I did from mutantdevle to pisskop. Even the same reasoning too, wanting to avoid a no-lynch.

Yeah, I'm not seeing scum!aster in 1026.

Cool. Me neither.

Is that just a blatant AtE?

I am really glad I read that spoiler text because all of it was amusing but I literally just cackled at

and then swing the veiny engorged bat of justice at the 2nd half of this shitpile

Calls out Creature's AtE, and then some fluff. Which honestly I'd be fine with if this WASN'T ONE OF HER LAST POSTS. That's right, we're reaching the end, sweetheart.

I don't know how I feel about Aster v. Comm. I think there are much scummier people that we can probably agree to lynch *cough*Creature,Viomi*cough* until we sort out whether this is TvT.

Her last post. "I don't know how I feel about that situation. I'm not going to form an opinion or give information. I still think we should lynch Viomi or Creature, though I'm not going to give the reason why I'm suddenly scumreading Creature. I'm also not going to reply or form opinions on literally

anything

happening in this game."

Oh yeah, and she hasn't posted for 50+ hours since then.

Phew! That wasn't near as long as you thought it'd be, huh? Now will you please, please please please help me lynch this ridiculously obvious scum?

This is my case on the LUV/Lalendra slot. Pretty obvscum. It is also the basis for my texcat case because her behavior (and now I realize, Aster, yours as well) is identical. See:

Let's talk about Chip. If we can't lynch Viomi, then it's between Chip and CommK for me. I'm not really interested in Lalendra.

Aw man, texcat in here to drop another scumlurk post. Doesn't reply to any of my posts about him, doesn't give reasons why he wants to vote Chip or CK, no reasons why he isn't interested in Lalendra. No comments on my case on her, or why he obviously feels it isn't satisfactory.

I'm just gonna list some traits here, and you're going to guess if I'm talking about Lalendra or texcat.

• Lurking
  
• Has spent the entirety of D2 contributing nothing other than a weak, bullshit vote on whatever wagon looked easiest at the beginning of the day (me).
  
• Has started slowly shifting over to CK or Chip because those wagons are looking way easier now that opinion of me has generally shifted
  
• Won't read my posts, acts as if they are but then blatantly proves themselves wrong in the same post
  
• Has less than 37 posts
  
• Waffles between Creature, CK and I
  
• Has given literally no reads except like, one time they made shit up to get town off their back
  
• Liked Aster's D1 case on me, which was a case based around me being a lurker. Irony ensues.
  
• Never comments on current events, never says anything that could be too disagreeable
  

• Creature is still on my scum list. I don't object to mutant\comm\chip, but I would still prefer to lynch Viomi.

  Ugh, I would really rather lynch Viomi than Comm. But I will vote Comm if needed to avoid a no-lynch.

  That shit

Answer: I was talking about both of them, obviously

Oh yeah, I forgot "blatantly contradicts themselves when it comes to their reasons for voting me"

VOTE: Viomi

There's something wrong with the disparity between not knowing that scum could talk before the draft yesterday, and today creating a detailed, point by point list based mostly on the setup about why Misa was NK'd.

which I responded to here

"Viomi played PYP once like 5 years ago, so her not remembering off the top of her head at the beginning of D1 whether scum gets to talk beforehand or not (especially seeing as she was TOWN in that game) somehow contradicts with her knowing more about the setup after reading the wiki page on d2."

Why did you have to get first pick at PR? fml..

And he never replied, of course.

Then later, he said the reason his vote on me is:

@Mutant, I thought that Aster made a pretty good case on Viomi yesterday. (post 467), saying that she wasn't thinking about the game, not really scum hunting and just conveniently reacting to the thread. We've seen that continue today, with all of the ad hominem arguments calling us all morons and quite a bit of omgus.

Ohh, so it's that case that Aster made about how I was lurking and not scumhunting and just casually reacting occasionally. You know, the

exact

thing you and Lalendra are doing right now? Interesting.

But wait, there's more!:

I was hoping to get a response to this

The only conflicts are made up by you attempting to misread you, and then you refuse to continue your ISO because you're not town trying to find scum, you're just scum trying to find enough reasons to make your vote seem justified.

But sadly Lalendra seems dedicated to the cause of refusing to give any information whatsoever.

This is why my vote is on Viomi. Lalendra not only explained her vote when she made it (592), but later, in response to Mutant, detailed the posts from Viomi that she disliked (734). She gave us plenty of information about her vote.

Because he thinks I'm misrepping Lalendra? Even though I'm clearly not.

So I'm not sure if he thinks I'm scum because I refreshed myself on the setup or if he thinks I'm a lurker (lol) or if he is just really convinced Lalendra is town for no apparent reason that he refuses to share.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about the post where he partakes in the dumb draft order number bullshit which later is the reason for the CommKnight wagon, which he says he's cool with:

The question is: Chip or City. Which one of those two is scum?

My guess would be Chip.

But I think the Viomi lynch is better. I think there is a scum among the people who picked 1, and I think that's much more likely than among the people who picked 5. The question should be: Viomi or Aster. And the answer is Viomi.

[Viomi]

Aster saying his case on CK was "solid" and that I never made a case on texcat is fucking comedy gold, by the way.

[Viomi]

Creature is still on my scum list. I don't object to mutant\comm\chip, but I would still prefer to lynch Viomi.

Also, after seeing mutant and chip flip and knowing I'm town (wait, texcat, what happened to protecting our PRs?), I feel very comfortable saying CK / sheep is town.

[Viomi]

And I am still not basing any of my reads on the reads of who I scumread.

Then help me lynch texcat so I can base my reads off the reads of flipped scum

[Viomi]

And I am still not basing any of my reads on the reads of who I scumread.

Then help me lynch texcat so I can base my reads off the reads of flipped scum

Or LUV, you scumread her right?

[Viomi]

Here, I'll just dump the entirety of the PT in here because information is power and I guess it's within the rules:

Spoiler: PT w/ Aster

I'd like to welcome my new neighbour, but the city administration (Elmo) hasn't actually told me who you are, only that we have a thread. Could you please post something?

Also, while you're posting, could you please tell me why you chose me?

Lmao.

I'm a neighborizer. I picked you for two reasons:

1. I have a very strong town read on you
2. You think I'm scum

I also really wanna know your thoughts and need some help on who to have my eyes on, my reads are pretty bad almost always.

Oh! But you've gotta tell me, are you town?

Oh! But you've gotta tell me, are you town?

Yes, I'm town ^^

But now that you've read my previous guide and realise that both townies and scum would always claim town, you should be able derive that both townies and scum have the same probability of claiming town, therefore that likelihood ratio is 1 and the above statement has no impact on the estimated probability that I'm town.

(I wish scumhunting was as easy as just asking them whether they were scum...)

Aster's Elementary Guide to Being a Helpful Townie

Alright. Now you've got the scumhunting down (hopefully), let me tell you why you're being suspected of being scum:

• Your posts are very short and contain barely any content;
  
• You make some statements without ever justifying them;
  
• Ergo, it looks like you're not trying to contribute to town at all.

Not contributing helpful posts is anti-town because it makes it harder for us to hunt scum. You're not actively contributing to the lynching of scum, and it becomes very hard to say whether you are scum or not. If we would ignore non-contributors, then scum could just lurk the entire game and scum lurkers would be indistinguishible from town lurkers.

The following post

Also mutantdevle I haven't been contributing to discussion on you much because everything I've wanted to say has already been said? And filling the thread up with the same information for more reading doesn't help us any, so...

is particularly jarring. Even if everything you want to say has already been said, it is still helpful for town for you to say it. Why? So we know which parts of what has been said you agree with. And why is it important to know that? Because we need that information to determine whether you are town or scum.

Not saying anything means that you give no reads, which means we can't figure out whether you are town or scum, which means that you might be scum and just win the entire game by not participating and letting town fight among themselves. This is why lurkers are a popular target for policy lynches.

Also, the very few things you do say are not motivated. Why do you thing that I and Chip Butty are town? If you really were town and really thought that those two were town, it'd be to your advantage to explain yourself so the others may recognise you're right and not try to lynch them. Your empty statements like "Chip Butty is town" doesn't help the town figure out whether you're scum nor are you helping town avoid mislynches. It looks scummy.

The solution for your situation would be to get over to the thread, hunt some scum, and then contribute your thoughts. I think I'm not going to tell you which leads you should pursue right now because (1) I've already put most of my reads publicly in the thread anyway, and (2) if I told you what to do, you'd look townish in the eyes of town without having actually increased your likelihood of being town, and (3) I think you should learn how to scumhunt yourself, if only for your future games' sake.

(I'll give you a hint though: you should start off by explaining why Chip Butty is definitely town.)

Feel free to ask me any questions.

I've been playing this game for quite a few years, but I appreciate the help

My "unhelpfulness" is more related to my role and trying to mix my meta up, as my PR play is very distinguishable as mentioned by Cabd in my most recently finished game. I will be more helpful and scumhunting in the future, I promise- I wanna neighborhood a bit more first.

Also Chip Butty is not definitely town, I'd like to see how he reacts to me claiming he's town. Whether it makes him uncomfortable that I'm buddying up to him and makes him suspicious of me, or if he does the scummy thing of taking all the town cred and reads he can get.

Man, I'm so glad I targeted you though! You have so much information to give, even if for some reason you're assuming I'm a newer player, you're going to be useful in a future town block.

Now here's a question: Who do you think I should neighborize tomorrow, town or scum? If I continue to play below par, scum should have no reason to kill me.. unless I neighborize them and find out I'm PR. But if I tell you who I'm making my neighbor, you can immediately know who scum is if I get nk'd, riiight?

Essentially, to explain myself better: I am purposefully looking somewhat scummy until I get more solid information and see more interactions occur. In the past I have had a tendency to either be blatantly PR and get NK'd, or so loud that people think I'm distracting and scum manages to mislynch me D1 or D2. So as long as I can maintain a healthy amount of people scumreading me, at least in the thread.. theoretically I can convince scum that I'll be an easy future Lynch while setting up a secret town block

Well, this is quite the surprise; your tactics are definitely more advanced than I had expected. That said, "I'll be more helpful in the future" does kind of sound like a mafia cop-out. I understand that there is a somewhat townish justification for your actions, so I won't try to lynch you anymore, but I won't be able to (or try to) save you either if your behaviour catches up with you. You're definitely less scummy that I thought, but I can't quite establish you as a townie either: after all, wanting to just lay low and gather information would definitely be in the mafia's advantage if you were mafia.

Now let's assume you're town. I don't think scum has any reason to try to NK you currently. First, you're at the bottom of the list, giving you the single lowest probability of having a power role of all. With your scummy-seeming attitude, they probably won't be taking you out to hurt the town's discussion either. If they knew you were the neighbouriser, things may change, but even then scum might be busy killing higher-priority powerroles like the cop, doctor and tracker.

So, yes. If you recruit a new neighbour and get NK'd the next night, I highly doubt it would be coincidence and will move to get that guy lynched the next day. It does however also look very possible for you to neighbourise scum without getting killed.

I definitely think you should try to neighbourise town. First, we don't know who the scum are, because anyone who goes above a certain scumminess threshold would get lynched them instead of neighbourised. We could at best go for the most scummiest player available, but then we'd be completely at doubt whether we're talking to scum or town, and it'd be difficult to know what to do with their information. I think it's better to take whomever we think is most likely to be town.

There may be something better than taking the most townish-looking person. The best way to utilise the neighbour network would be to neighbourise informative roles like the cop, watcher or tracker. If we could neighbourise one of them, then they could investigate and the entire neighbourhood would know about their results (provided that you and the cop/tracker are town) without them having to reveal their identity to anyone but the neighbouriser. If they find scum, I or another neighbour could inform the town about it instead of the cop/tracker themself, preventing them from getting instantly NK'ed.

Of course there are two problems with that. The first is that we don't know who the informative roles are either. The second problem is that even if you were to recruit them, they may not trust you enough to share with you that they're the cop/tracker. If I were the cop, I probably wouldn't share it with you either unless there was a major advantage to be had in doing so, such as having found one mafia and needing my neighbours to get them lynched without roleclaiming publicly, or stopping an otherwise inevitable lynch of a townie.

So maybe it's better to just stick to recruiting the most townish-looking player to get a solid network? I guess in the end, everything is a trade-off.

One more thing though: if all neighbours know everyone who is in the neighbourhood, then even if the cop/tracker only reveals his role to you and you relay the investigative result, the mafia will still be able to narrow down who the cop/tracker is to a small set of players if they manage to infiltrate the neighbourhood at some point. This would significantly reduce the utility of getting informative roles in our neighbourhood.

This can be hedged agains by not telling us neighbours about whom the other neighbours are, but that would reduce collaboration. Here again is a trade-off to be made.

Maybe it's better to wait with considering our expansion until the night when we've got a whole lot more information?

I like the way you think.

Yeah, I'm cool with waiting until tonight to decide who to neighborize.

Aha, see that response from Chip? That's very uncomfortable. I'm thinking he's scum, what do you think?

Yeah he's scum, I'm certain now.

I think you're misunderstanding Chip Butty. When he told you "consider me pocketed", he didn't mean that he actually accepted your pocketing attempt. Rather, it looks to me like he noticed your obvious attempt at pocketing him and wanted to point that out; being pocketed was meant ironically. That he was quick to support a Viomi bandwagon thereafter shows that he never actually considered himself pocketed by you. Although it shows that he's wary about keeping up town appearances, which is somewhat associated with being scum, I personally don't actually see this as major piece of evidence against him.

As a general negotiations tip: insulting people will rarely convince them they're wrong. In mafia games it may sometimes be useful to insult players in order to discredit their position while trying to convince others, but at this point you're insulting almost everyone. It may not be optimal.

By now, it looks like players are no longer actually reading your posts. That tends to happen when you land in a long-drawn discussion. At this point, I personally find it helpful to make a medium-length post that summarises the major events that happened, thepieces of evidence you've presented in your bandwagon, and why others should join you. Medium length means "not so long that players feel disincentived to read it." Format it nicely with some bold parts or headers to catch players' attention, so those who've been skimming through the rest of your post will at least read this one.

Of course, a sudden medium-length well-formatted post might go against your meta at this point and may attract further attention ("Are his scumbuddies helping him?"), but that's what I would do if I wasn't stuck in your meta.

Yeah, I realized I was misunderstanding him, hence my most recent post.

God, I really hope you're not scum.. it would really suck to get all excited about having an underground town block just to get muffled before I can begin..

What's your read on texcat?

Texcat seems a bit like a lurker to me. Most of the things he post look sane, but he doesn't post a lot. He could be either a not very active player, or scum trying to say the minimum to not be considered "lurking".

Some points:

• He has only ever bandwagoned against others rather than being the first to vote somebody. The only place where he put his reads is in post #680.
  
• I agree that post 735 doesn't hold water; you're clearly acting different today than you did yesterday. That said, please take note that unlike what you claimed in post 740, I didn't call the bandwagon on you senseless, I called the bandwagon you were pushing against Chip Butty senseless.

I would consider texcat to be a small lurker. Lurkers are anti-town but not necessarily scum. However, they may be targets of policy lynches because it's difficult to figure out a lurkers personality. That said, there are far worse lurkers than texcat out there. I personally do not see any particular scumtells among his posts.

I personally think it wouldn't be worth going after texcat for now.

You don't think him giving extremely minimal information by only posting his reads once and only joining bandwagons is scummy?

Between "scummy" and "not scummy" I'd say that he's scummy. It matches the "active lurker" stereotype, though I'm not actually sure where to draw the borderline between "lurking" and "active lurking". Lurking (and especially the active kind) is associated with scum, but not definitive evidence of it. In absence of other more obvious scum, it could be worth going after him.

However, like I said, the town is at this point probably exhausted going after lurkers. I don't think I could build a bandwagon against him based on the evidence we have now; the whole reason town goes after lurkers is because it is difficult to build cases against them when there are other targets around. Given that there are targets (like you) that the town is more passionate about and also include "lurking" on the list of charges, I don't think going after texcat would be worth it at this point. You're free to try though.

You're quiet, Aster. What are your thoughts on Cheeky? They seem town to me.

I don't like Cheeky. I didn't like wilky either, but Cheeky isn't making her position any better.

Post 826 luckily accomplished nothing, but it is remarkable that after reading to page 6 she decided to vote already, and just

happened

to vote the guy who was at L-1. It does seem like a rare scenario to happen coincidentally. I wonder whether she actually knew you were at L-1 but missed that the slot she replaced was already voting you, and tried to sneak in a hammer without having to go through the intent process?

In post 940 she tries, just like CommKnight, to declare certain numbers as "numbers scum would be attracted to". It looks like an attempt to lynch people without needing to consider their posts. I think that unless somebody has done mutant-style statistical analysis of past games, they have no business saying which numbers scum would pick and which scum wouldn't.

In post 948 she proposes to lynch Assembler merely to "test out a theory" (what theory anway?). This frankly, sounds like an unjustifyable waste of a lynch. Also, she might just be scum who just picked Assembler expressedly to disprove the theory. CommKnight, whom I believe to be scum, was remarkably quick to follow her.

After I voted CommKnight, all his posts thereafter did not address my questions and were just beating around the point. In post 989 she somehow thinks that beating around the point makes CommKnight town? She's also back to Assembler for whatever reason in post 973.

There seems to be a bit of conflict between CommKnight and Cheeky, but that may be bussing as well. Especially considering how quickly Cheeky jumped off the CommKnight wagon. I think that Cheeky is scummy and I may call her out on it after I'm done with CommKnight. For now, however, I think that CommKnight is the obvious scum here and I'm focusing on him.

Alright, glad I didn't move my vote then.

Well, I like Kidamn! They actually pay attention for the most part and they realize you're fkn obvtown so that's good. I'm thinking of targeting them tonight, seeing if they've got a role they can help us with. Town bloc HOORAH

I agree with neighourising KidAmn tonight. I'm quite happy with him replacing Assembler as well; sane statements used to be a rarity with Creature, Chip & CommKnight dominating the discussion.

I agree with neighourising KidAmn tonight. I'm quite happy with him replacing Assembler as well; sane statements used to be a rarity with Creature, Chip & CommKnight dominating the discussion.

I'm mostly humoring Creature at the moment but I'm honestly beginning to town read him.

Puhleaaaase vote Lalendra? <3

What the fuck, NSG...

Siiiighs.

Alright, well, should I still target KidAmn? I'm starting to have doubts about them and they've been really quiet. I'm starting to think I should target someone else...

Oh, and I'm going to tunnel the fuck out of nsg for that hammer. What the actual fuck.

I think KidAmn is still our best choice. Not because I've got a strong townread on him, but because he's one of the few players who aren't excessively scummy/antitown. (I'm kind of the opposite of Creature: I tend to find many scumreads and few townreads.)

Let's look at the players left alive:

• CommKnight
  
• Creature
  
• northsidegal
  
• Aster
  
• texcat
  
• Viomi
  
• mutantdevle
  
• Lil Uzi Vert
  
• Momo
  
• CityElectric
  
• KidAmn

Now remove Aster and Viomi because they're already in the neighbourhood. Remove Comm, Creature, LUV for being scumbags. Remove texcat and City for lurking. Remove NSG for the hammer incident. We're left with mutant, Momo, and KidAmn.

Mutant could make a valuable addition to the neighbourhood with his spreadsheet, but I don't really trust him. He's been buddying up with Comm and pushing the bandwagon to Chip. He could very well be scum.

That leaves Momo and KidAmn. Momo is the replacement of Cheeky and wilky. I liked neither of the players he's replacing, and the post he's made are iffy at best. Between KidAmn and Momo, I like KidAmn more.

I think KidAmn and mutant are our only two viable additions. KidAmn seems to me to be the towniest (as in, least scummy) player alive. Mutant's data could help us a lot regardless of his alignment, but he may end up being scum.

Yeah.. I think you're right. I hate that everyone is so damn scummy. Grrr.

By the way, if I die, take a really serious look at texcat. I'm pretty much 100% on him being scum.

You should claim for me in here once you get over your tunnel vision, by the way.

[Viomi]

Lmao

VOTE: LUV

[Viomi]

And I am still not basing any of my reads on the reads of who I scumread.

Then help me lynch texcat so I can base my reads off the reads of flipped scum

Sorry, lynching town isn't my win con.

Are you ever going to tell me why you think he's town?

[Viomi]

No, no NSG lynch. I'm sick and tired of being pulled into bullshit mislynches without even a decent case.

If you're in this game, you haven't replied to my case on Lalendra/LUV & texcat, and you aren't voting one of those two.. then please stop being useless. If you don't think my case has weight, refute it already. I'm so tired of Creature's bullshit playstyle that denies us meaningful discussion because all he can say is "x is scummy, lynch them"

I'm getting sick of Aster doing the same thing.

So, if you're town and you aren't on texcat or LUV:

Why?

Refute me please.

[Viomi]

because all he can say is "x is scummy, lynch them"

Maybe I have a reason to not say more than that?

Uhhhh

Yeah no, nothing could explain shitty playstyle. Also, whether this was supposed to be a soft claim or not, if you're town, scum will kill you tonight. Which is good I guess, then we don't have to deal with your anti town shit. I'd rather you die than someone who's actually scumhunting.

[Viomi]

Okay, lynch northsidegal for me then.

What.

[Viomi]

Page 60. Speed reading. Hope to be caught up in 2-3 hours.

By the time you finish you'll (hopefully) be voting northsidegal calling for her head.

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a case on NSG and not just you saying "northsidegal is scum" over and over? He'd probably be more likely to be screaming for NSG's head if this were the case.

[Viomi]

Texcat - 2

Northsidegal - 3

Assemblerotws - 4

CommKnight - 6
Mutantdevle - 8

MisaTange - 30

CityElectric - 5

Chip Butty - 5

Wilky - 7

Creature - 7

Lalendra - 7

Aster - 1

Pisskop - 1

Viomi - 1

You can notice all of texcat, assemblerotws, MisaTange and pisskop have the same color.
MisaTange and pisskop are flipped town.
texcat knows she's town herself.
So assemblerotws (KidAmn) obviously had to be her town result.

Damn, that's pretty badass actually. I feel daft that I didn't put that together.

okay, that makes things easy – tex just claimed scum. it also means that scum probably win next night on a mislynch – tex probably wouldn't do this if it didn't win her the game the very next night. what

that

tells me is that we're on the right track in terms of who's scum – they're desperate for the mislynch.

Uhh.. You think tex just claimed scum? If anything this looks like you claiming scum.

VOTE: northsidegal

If you flip town, we lynch texcat. Easy.

[Viomi]

what now
viomi is town so i want to wait for viomi to say smth because i dont trust myself to interpret claims

Vote NSG, clearly my read on her and texcat were both wrong.

LUV is still scum, not sure why texcat doesn't see it, and probably momo as the third.

[Viomi]

LUV and CityElectric make sense as a scumteam that wouldn't notice texcat was cop.

Or this. momo or CE/fitz

[Viomi]

what? what changed? i'm not counterclaiming cop if it wasn't clear – i'm vt. it doesn't change the fact that tex is scum. i'm fairly confident that scum just win the game on my mislynch – that's why they were pushing it so hard at the start of the day for the hammer yesterday.

They don't win on your mislynch. I know because I was stopped from my night action last night, which means there's a Universal Backup (now JK) instead of a 1-shot Vig. We can't lose today. If you flip town, we just lynch texcat tomorrow.