House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

Yep, I shot someone who I thought was more likely to flip red. You already know (this keeps coming up) that I think it was a bad shot because I think the information we got out of a maria shot was way worse than the info we'd get from other shots, but you posted in thread trying to force my hand.

I said I would do this. Multiple times. You tried to ram through the lim. I did what I said I was gunna do. I should have shot GL but I'd do it again in an instant.

[Thestatusquo]

Luke was the number one proponent of this in the PT. (again, something you know) so clearly I would night kill him. It's like you're not even thinking at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I hope you get therapy. It's very helpful for the ol' anger management issues. Anyway I'm off for the night. Stay mad.

[Thestatusquo]

What's wrong with therapy? I'm in it myself.

[Thestatusquo]

I clearly disagree that VPB is not doing anything wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't agree with your characterizations of my posts as AtE. I don't agree with the contradictions you are claiming are there. I do not enjoy interacting with you and I don't think you're in good faith. Whether that's because of personal bias or because you're scum I don't know, but I'm not willing to engage with you at the moment and if you think I'm scum because of that or anything I've done, I don't really care. I think you are an incredibly rude and unpleasant person and I don't really want to talk to you anymore which I can assure you would be true regardless of my alignment.

Does that sum it up?

[Thestatusquo]

I am vla this weekend playing two magic tournaments. Math, do you want anything from me?

[Thestatusquo]

Deliberately avoiding things is literally not how I play any alignment. I told pooky that to give the power to whomever replaced junko, and he pinged me on discord to confirm that today in the afternoon. I have looked at nothing in this game today. You can verify I played a magic tournament from 10 am that I just got home from right now if you'd like.

https://mtgmelee.com/Tournament/View/11719

I will also be playing one tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

I went 2-4, for anyone wondering.

[Thestatusquo]

Not even really sure what I would be avoiding, to be honest. I made my opinion on today incredibly clear. I think GL is scum. I think dwlee is town. Why would I be avoiding something? Did a wagon somehow spring up on me while I wasn't looking? Or is this literally just some mathblade moon logic?

Once again, I did not submit after replacement. I submitted when junko replaced out. I told pooky to give the PR to whomever replaced junko. That was yesterday afternoon, roughly 3pm. He pinged me around 3pm today to confirm that I still wanted to do that. I said yes.

I don't even know what you think scum me would be trying to accomplish here...Like...what?

[Thestatusquo]

Both on discord, if you'd like to run my communication methods through your scumdar.

[Thestatusquo]

This might be literally the dumbest conversation I've ever had in a game of mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, in the small council thread mathblade did just claim I was lurking in a game where I had the third most posts. So that's up there too.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok. Well, I'm not ever voting for dwlee, I gave the role to Junko because junko is my strongest town read by a wide margin, and I think anyone on the council can confirm this.

I didn't pick mathblade at all. I picked literally "whomever replaces junko." for the above reason. And then confirmed that I wasn't changing my mind today when pinged by the mod on discord.

3 is just extremely silly, but ok, thanks for actually explaining to me what mathblade thinks is happening here.

[Thestatusquo]

@Mod is there any way that you can just confirm when I made my choice? If there hadn't been a replacement in the slot it would have been posted when I made it anyway, so its not like you're giving information that shouldn't be public.

[Thestatusquo]

The assumption that somehow I would be scared of mathblade as scum is the part of all of that which I find the funniest.

[Thestatusquo]

I literally already explained this. Twice. Specifically told you the times. Are you deliberately ignoring it or accusing me of lying about it?

[Thestatusquo]

lol ok.

Good luck with whatever you think this is I guess.

Luke was probably town reading me more than anyone else in the thread and was scum reading the person I'm trying to lim (GL).

I think the idea that I would have NKed luke is literally nonsensical.

[Thestatusquo]

Like the thing I'm being accused of is that I killed the person who was strongly town reading me who I was also strongly town reading in order to give their power to another person who was strongly town reading me and who I was strongly town reading in order to ?????????? What? What do I get out of this?

I'm not even trying to rush the day? I never have been? I'm voting GL and am unlikely to move off.

Not a single part of this makes even the slightest bit of sense.

It's quite literally gibberish.

[Thestatusquo]

Just to reiterate. The situation where...I decided to give a power role, which I could only give to one of 5 people, to the slot who I thought was most likely to be town....Again, before you even replaced into the game?

Ok, sure.

There is no dilemma. You are just literally spouting nonsense.

[Thestatusquo]

Think youre going to have a lot of trouble understanding whats going on without reading the whole game.

[Thestatusquo]

Dwlee still town.

[Thestatusquo]

lmao ok.

[Thestatusquo]

The idea that I do this as scum to protect dwlee my lim bait partner who is doing absolutely nothing is just so ridiculous that I can't believe GL is saying it with a straight face. I would have bussed the ever living fuck out of them without batting an eye.

[Thestatusquo]

If anything I think a dwlee green flip looks worse for me than a red flip and I'm sure I'll have to deal with disingenuous arguments about how I was TMIing their alignment even though I think the reasoning for limming them is classic lim the lurker where the lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

[Thestatusquo]

The idea that I do this as scum to protect dwlee my lim bait partner who is doing absolutely nothing is just so ridiculous that I can't believe GL is saying it with a straight face. I would have bussed the ever living fuck out of them without batting an eye.

the idea that you do this as town to protect a slot that is doing absolutely nothing is also extremely ridiculous.

I try to lim scum and not lim town. I think limming lurkers is an extremely lazy and ineffective way to do that. If somehow you're town this game we're going to have to be very careful if we play together in the future because it seems like the way we approach the game is fundamentally quite different.

As for lurkers flipping scum more often than town that has not been my experience because town lurkers tend to get pushed more than scum lurkers because scum has high incentive to push lurkers for easy lims. Which is sure what it seems like you're doing here to me.

[Thestatusquo]

If anything I think a dwlee green flip looks worse for me than a red flip and I'm sure I'll have to deal with disingenuous arguments about how I was TMIing their alignment even though I think the reasoning for limming them is classic lim the lurker where the lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

I think as I have stated before a Dwlee town flip looks better for you.

That was until you took up stock in Waffle House without pushing any other scumread. Still a little better on a town flip but not as much as before.

Are you joking? The claim that I haven't been pushing my scum read is like...Have you even read the thread levels of wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

Not quite as wrong as claiming I lurk as scum, but like I have been pretty clear I want GL limmed today.

[Thestatusquo]

Junko slot is still my strongest townread in the game, even if mathblade is making me tear all my hair out.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe it’s because I am a replacement but I don’t see what towncore she’s breaking?

early in the game I felt there was a nice VPB/Andres/GL/TSQ coalition forming, and mastina started (illogically, IMO) railing against GL/VPB as a power wolf duo and has not stopped since. We were all a bit paranoid on Datisi early IIRC but VPB/I have since also recognized him as town.

I do not really agree that you and VPB displayed much paranoia on datisi.

[Thestatusquo]

honestly Mastina is probably the correct elimination today in either Dwlee town/scum world, but it's too late to shift the wagon over methinks

I would lim mastina. I'm a little bit wary that its coming from you, though.

But I also just kind of want to flip dwlee now because at the very least it will give people clarity on a bunch of slots.

[Thestatusquo]

I do think the play makes much less sense in a world with a town mastina, but I guess I've just really decided I don't really think its super alignment indicative either way and unwnd gave me the hibbities basically the whole time he was in the game.

[Thestatusquo]

you don't think the dwlee unwnd associatives are bad?

[Thestatusquo]

Also, why didn't you fund the other roles?

[Thestatusquo]

I thought the point of the investment on night one was that we could basically have a full range of night actions going forward. I don't think pooky designed a game where the sum total of night actions we could have in 10:5 is 2 doc and 1 cop result.

Like, the investment angle makes sense on day 1 but we're very much in the meat of the game now and it feels like this is exactly where we want our power roles, so what happened to the investment from night 1 and why wasn't there more money to fund more roles?

[Thestatusquo]

Shea what do you think about my idea to make Mastina Prince if Johnny is executed today

I am against mastina king for the same reasons I was day 1.

[Thestatusquo]

Also, why didn't you fund the other roles?

U mean andante? I asked for peoples opinion and no one said they wanted andante to act.

This is slimy. You are offloading your responsibility onto the council.

So I'll ask more clearly: Why didn't you think town should have a tracker last night? Why didn't you think they should have a JK?

Not "no one explicitly told me to do it." you know damn well I left the roles at their discretion to make their own decisions, so now I want you to explain yours.

[Thestatusquo]

You sold us on your plan N1 explicitly based on the idea that everyone should now have plenty of funding going forward. I believe you directly said something like "the good news is everyone should be able to act going forward."

And then you decided to just not fund two of our PRs anyway. And now your reasons why are "well no one told me explicitly to do it." even though I was very clear I wanted people to make their own decisions independently of me.

[Thestatusquo]

I gave you wide latitude because I didn't know the finances and your actions made some sort of sense given the mechanics of the game, but the specific reasoning of those actions doesn't jive at all with a world where then night 2 you just don't fund two power roles.

[Thestatusquo]

Why didn't we fund our power roles tonight? We were told that we didnt fund them night 1 because we needed to invest everything but the doc funds in order to make sure we had fully funded power roles going forward. Now we funded only cop and doc.

[Thestatusquo]

What is there to miss?

[Thestatusquo]

I want to know why you made the decisions you did. You still haven't answered that.

You framing this as a fight is overly defensive and bizarre. I'm asking you to explain why you didn't fund our power roles last night. Your answer "because no one explicitly told me to" is not effective since you're perfectly capable of your own judgement and were explicitly told to use it.

So please explain that judgement.

[Thestatusquo]

Which post explains your judgement?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not trying to start a fight, I think you're scum because your actions do not match the reasoning you gave for only funding one power role night one, and I am giving you a chance to explain why that is not the case.

[Thestatusquo]

council PT
I explained why i didn't want andante to have PR early in that thread. I didn't think it was magically useful now for her to have it.
I also explained why i changed my mind on giving math more money.

Why didn't you think JK was useful?

[Thestatusquo]

So you thought that there was a risk that andante, as town, would JK Datisi, as town?

[Thestatusquo]

I ain't doing it and I'm pretty sure it would be game throwing for me to do it as either alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

Me causing myself, the only player I know for sure to be town, to be eliminated, is game throwing.

[Thestatusquo]

What.

[Thestatusquo]

What does...the winning player get? What game function does this serve? A 5% chance of a dayvig with a 5% risk you die? Is the winning player not limmable?

I legitimately do not understand what function this serves even a little bit.

[Thestatusquo]

oh my god please don't challenge GL

oh my god please no one use this

Why, do you think we're somehow both town? I'm accused of having associatives and trying to save Dwlee (I wasn't, I literally shifted my read over the 24 hours that I came into the game, it isn't scummy to not know who's scum the moment I replace in), while GL and Dwlee have really bad associations.

could you elaborate on that last point?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm finding this game kind of exhausting to keep up with because of the three threads.

I'll try to be present and caught up tonight.

[Thestatusquo]

I like Dann's re-entry into the game, especially his Titus read and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.

I'm catching back up and I agree with this. It doesn't feel like a fake catchup post, but I am incredibly biased towards townreading effort so I need to be a little careful about that.

But it's not just effort, I myself yesterday was kind of musing in my head about going over all the people who have received votes for king and thinking that there has to be at least one scum in that pool.

[Thestatusquo]

i think the thing that most confuses me about dannflor's post/case here is that he spent a lot of time writing out associates with lld and the wagons, but very little writing out why lld is actually scum. the reasoning for her mechanical analysis being lamist and the weirdness in pushing unowen is *fine*, but i don't think it makes for a read he feels so strongly about. he said himself he's gonna explain those reads later, but why not explain it now?

bleh, as i type this, i'm less sure it's scummy, but i don't get it

other than why is unowen scum (which i already asked about in the supporters pt but might as well answer here), i don't get what makes titus scummy. she's been coasty and she voted dwlee, but i feel like scum does one or the other, not both. well, experienced scum does, which titus is.

---

3370 makes me wanna kashoot myself

gl voted dwlee after that and why would scum-gl who's busing jump from the bus onto the very uncertain cw on enchant and just WHY

---

I like Dann's re-entry into the game,

especially his Titus read

and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.

that's the part i liked the least... you think titus is likely scum here?

And I agree with this too, though I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, because I think it was pretty clear that the assumption was there had to be a serious scum candidate for king, which was, again, a thought I was mulling over in my head myself yesterday, so I guess I vibe with it more than you do.

I do wish there had been more analysis of dwlee associatives in particular but I do think that Dann's point: That LLD completely and deliberately avoided day 2 in a way which made it so there are no associatives in either direction, isn't exactly a point in her favor.

I too am sympathetic to it being difficult to get back into this game. Reading the 8 pages in this thread and knowing theres probably a similar number in the king pt and the small council PT is still making me feel some type of way, but I also do think its fair to say that this disengagement DOES make it hard to read into any associations with the flip, and could have been done deliberately. I think even LLD would grant that if she looked at a similar slot in a similar situation that she would at least consider that possibility if it weren't her slot.

[Thestatusquo]

i agree with andante on this tho
VOTE: Unowen

Do you town read Johnny? If so, why?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't town read johnny.

Why do you want to leave him alone?

[Thestatusquo]

none of yall even have a legit reason to sr Johnny... I don't have many confident reads, but johnny is town, thanks.

I need to know why. I'm not fighting you, I'm asking you to explain yourself.

[Thestatusquo]

Like "he let a wagon go through" is not a reason to town read someone when it goes red. That happens literally all the time.

And honestly i find your characterization of it as an apathy wagon to be incredibly weird.

What makes you say that wagon was driven by apathy?

[Thestatusquo]

An Apathy Wagon?

It's been called that before, though not by you.

From what I can tell Dweelee is an apathy wagon

what's an apathy wagon? I'm pretty certain on dwlee maf here, like, one look at that ISO... that is not town!dwlee

[Thestatusquo]

So can you connect the dots here.

How did we get from "I'm pretty sure Dwlee is mafia here." from you, which would indicate that you in particular thought it was a wagon on scum from people who were scum reading dwlee, to you using the exact same phrasing of "apathy wagon." to describe it, despite the fact that you clearly weren't apathetic about it while you were on it as evidenced by the aforementioned comment?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm especially curious because that seems to be the only reason you're town reading johnny, so at the very least the read doesn't make much sense, because given that you were, again, "pretty certain dwlee is mafia", I would expect you to take exception with that description of the wagon, not coopt it later to defend johnny.

I'm not sure if this is just a fake read on town or if its a fake read on a buddy but it sure is a fake read unless you want to give me more context for why you're town reading johnny or more context on why you're now calling a wagon that you were on that you said was certain to be on mafia an "apathy wagon?"

I'll take either. But you don't get to just run away here. Engage more and explain more.

[Thestatusquo]

i am in catchup mode, simply pointing me to the posts would have worked man.

[Thestatusquo]

Can I ask briefly: Didn't Shea kill Maria's for trying to kill Dwlee without his consent? Is that a misunderstanding of why MariaR died?

I killed maria because I was strongly town reading dwlee and threatened to kill someone instead if people didnt get off dwlee.

GL and the VPB came in and voted dwlee which forced my hand and I killed maria because it was a slot I wasn't town reading and she was annoying me.

The shot choice was bad.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not going to let this andante point just get passed by though, can we talk more about this.

[Thestatusquo]

ok.

[Thestatusquo]

Of note, I think the timing of that LLD post trying to semi-shade me is incredibly interesting if Andante ever flips red.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok. I also think its unlikely you're aligned with johnny, given unwnds entrance to the small council thread.

Could be wrong on that though.

[Thestatusquo]

Hard to keep track of this game tbh. Like I have other reasons to think you could be aligned, but I just went back in the small council thread looking for something else and reminded myself of unwnds entrance where he basically based his whole read of the game state on the idea that one of the two of us was scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Which I think would be an incredibly odd position to take if he knew you were scum and his buddy and I was town.

[Thestatusquo]

Can I ask briefly: Didn't Shea kill Maria's for trying to kill Dwlee without his consent? Is that a misunderstanding of why MariaR died?

I killed maria because I was strongly town reading dwlee and threatened to kill someone instead if people didnt get off dwlee.

GL and the VPB came in and voted dwlee which forced my hand and I killed maria because it was a slot I wasn't town reading and she was annoying me.

The shot choice was bad.

Okay so my understanding was correct.

Did you support or oppose Dwlee death day 2? I didn't pay attention.

I was opposed to dwlee lim until pooky posted their name in red.

[Thestatusquo]

Hard to keep track of this game tbh. Like I have other reasons to think you could be aligned, but I just went back in the small council thread looking for something else and reminded myself of unwnds entrance where he basically based his whole read of the game state on the idea that one of the two of us was scum.

Unwnd's whole thing was our fight wasnt TvT so at least one of us was scum?

yeah, which I had forgotten until I went back and looked at the start of the pt for something.

[Thestatusquo]

I posted a lot of this in the supporter thread, but basically I've changed my whole worldview on the game.

I actually think andante is more likely scum than johnny, because I just simply don't think the read is real and I feel like that could be true both in a johnny scum and johnny town world.

[Thestatusquo]

Here are some quotes for you if you're interested in sort of where my head was at throughout the night

I guess the thing I'm most thinking about is in fact what GL asked me to revaluate. One of my biggest load bearing pillars of this game was that one of vpb and gl was scum, based on similar ideas with the kings wagons to the ones that are being discussed and my strong town read of Junko. This is also a huge part of my dwlee read in addition to the wagon thoughts and the just general i think slots that act like this in response to pressure are way more likely to flip town, which i still believe and i will take to my grave as a Mafia player.

Both GL and VPB just became way more likely to be town in my mind which means that if i have to think one of those wagons was scum it might have to be Junko. Plus i don't think math has made one lick of sense since he's replaced in.

That shift of Junko counter pushing gl and soft defending dwlee with me to get replacement voting them immediately in a more "they're definitely going to be limmed" game state matches how i would expect scum to act and the replacement shines a sharp focus on it.

Unwnd started to squick me out at the end of day 1 and johnny has done exactly nothing to reassure me. My read on rhae was based on them not likely to be acting that way as scum but i can definitely be wrong about that.

I agree with everything said about mastina.

In response to VPB asking me what I thought about my king election being quick

I was kind of surprised it happened so quickly, and at that time i thought it was scum controlled because I was extremely skeptical of what at that time I was thinking of as a group of four with you datisi gl and dannflor. You can see me expressing that in post 83 in this thread. Also in post 1741 in the main thread. I was going to put Dann on the council but decided against it because multiple people in this thread expressed skepticism and I decided to hedge against my VPB and GL paranoia by listening to them.

I put Datisi on the council because I felt the best about him of that group of players I was feeling extremely iffy about due to his contributions in trying to town case GL VPB and Dann even though I found those cases not really useful for me because I felt like they felt real fhpov.

My worldview was extremely shaped by thinking LLD was scum at that time, too. Those two things were pretty strongly influencing my council picks.

I guess my real question with mastina/unwnd boils down to: Does scum mastina react that positively to her buddy openly lobbying for her to be king to the exclusion of doing anything else at all? I don't know, but I kind of have a hard time seeing it.

So its difficult for me to see a mastina/johnny buddies world.

Not impossible but like...is that really how they play it in that spot? Feels like one or the other is scum not both the more that I think about it.

Theres more, but here's just a sample of where I was at about the game over the night.

[Thestatusquo]

Do I think its possible? Yes. Do I think its likely? No.

I don't see why that would be his line at that time given that dwlee was probably a foregone conclusion and I think if he were going to bus anyone it would be dwlee.

I think priority for Unwnd if he replaced in as your partner would be to attempt to help you rehab your slot as much as possible.

[Thestatusquo]

So uhhh...Andante caught scum I guess.

VOTE: Andante

Guess you can say your thing GL, we won't be getting a response.

[Thestatusquo]

I have been informed by datisi that andante has done the replace out when questioned before as town so I'mma slow my roll just a little bit.

VOTE: unvote

[Thestatusquo]

I think replace out in the middle of a back and forth is way more likely to come from scum than town.

At least, historically I have seen it more from scum than town.

[Thestatusquo]

Good for you!

[Thestatusquo]

It's not a town read, its a "I no longer want to power lim it because I think its caught scum replacing out in frustration."

[Thestatusquo]

oh no

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not shooting today, for what its worth.

So if you want andante you'll have to get her the conventional way. I'm still scum reading there.

[Thestatusquo]

What town case of Unowen exists that ive been apparently ignoring. Did Dats make one?
WHo is townreading Unowen.

no i made a scumcase

dann has a townread on him that i am still waiting on

also hi fireisredsir!!

Feels like danns townread was directly tied to the scum read on lld.

[Thestatusquo]

I'll just call you sir.

[Thestatusquo]

To me I'm less interested in the rhae part of that then the dwlee part.

Rhae acting the exact same way she was in the main thread isn't newsworthy, but dwlee was doing very little at all in the main thread. Why did they choose to pick a fight with rhae in particular?

[Thestatusquo]

Dwlee is pretty smart. They knew that calling rhae melodramatic was going to provoke exactly that reaction.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess what I'm trying to think through is why does scum dwlee think its worthwhile to get tunneled by rhae in particular? I could very easily see *that sort of interaction* being theatre, but its hard to say without seeing it myself.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but why do that when they have done almost nothing else? It's not like they were looking for hooks into the game anywhere else?

Idk its interesting. I feel like non-partnered dwlee probably just complains about rhae in the scum PT if they are really that annoyed.

But the point is to get into a fight in pseudo public.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess my thing is like...I don't think its...not? partnered? But I definitely think it could be? And I agree that unwnd and dwlee DO look partnered.

[Thestatusquo]

andres enchant shea firebringer town

VP GL probably town

why is enchant town

I feel pretty townie gut feelings about enchant too tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

As someone who was not going to shoot rhae I know that she was self aware of no such thing.

[Thestatusquo]

So are we down for the plan of giving the role to johnny, yeeting johnny and then picking someone else to give both rolls to? Thats currently my plan.

[Thestatusquo]

If we execute Johnny, will Grand Maester power even work or we have no protection for next night?

I confirmed with pooky before I made the assignment that I can pick a new heir give them doc and then they can act tonight.

I confirmed it twice.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Johnny

[Thestatusquo]

What do we think of the fact that all my council picks that have flipped so far have been town and what it means for my other council picks.

[Thestatusquo]

It feels pretty unlikely that i actually managed to pick an entirely town council to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Was my point.

[Thestatusquo]

To that end I'm kind of interested in why fireisred fb and datisi are not more suspicious of each other. Just mathematically.

Although i guess we saw some of that from fireisred just a little bit ago.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think all of GL Datisi and vpb are town.

[Thestatusquo]

You realize that Rhae picked an all town council too.
At least if we take fireisredsir as town and me as town. ANd since i know im town.
She has: Herself, Mastina, Titus,

2 of the three people I'm talking about seems like a pretty big assumption.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm saying we don't know that rhae picked an all town council either.

[Thestatusquo]

This seems like an incredibly spurious argument from you

[Thestatusquo]

Firebringer who do you think the scum are.

[Thestatusquo]

Like give me a team solve

[Thestatusquo]

idk why andres flipping would affect my suspicion on anyone else. him being town doesn't make anyone else more likely to be scum

That's actually not really true.

Kind of a variation of the Monty hall problem, yeah?

[Thestatusquo]

No.

Why

[Thestatusquo]

Will you give me a team solve?

Are you still town reading gl and vpb both?

[Thestatusquo]

It feels like if you think I'm town fb is town fireisred is town gl and vpb is town

Mastina and Titus conf town fypov.

Kind of running out of pov.

[Thestatusquo]

Roden
Dannflor
Unowen
Lady Lambdadelta
ProfessorDrapion
furtiveglance
Enchant

Fypov there's 4 scum here.

[Thestatusquo]

I really find it hard to believe that scum basically don't have a single person trying to control the game more aggressively than this list.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe eventually.

I don't really think either of those players are going to be likely Elim right now so it seems like kind of a waste of a shot in the moment.

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of think FBs point about killing the tracker repeatedly is interesting.

Maybe that makes lld less likely as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Dann is by far my strongest scum read.

But i don't know how fair I'm being because i know my own lack of investment in this game is an indication that he might be struggling with the same things.

This is just not remotely similar to how I've seen him play as town.

[Thestatusquo]

Drap has felt really earnest to me tbh. Maybe I'm undervaluing their scum game but from a tone perspective i just don't see it.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think lld and Owen are partnered. I don't know if you read the the part of day one where she was here a bunch but making one of your main contributions a strong town read of her partner which was mostly unexplained seems unlikely to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Lady Lambdadelta what are your reads

also who is actually disagreeing that finding a town for King is important

The people who seem to be more concerned with someone's quality for king over their actual status? and the people who seem content to lurk through this phase and solve it in the next one.

On face everyone will agree a townie needs to be king, but actions aren't lining up with intent. We're on path to select a king from the most active most friendly face, I think, which is likely to be a recipe for disaster.

Yeah though you can always say that about almost anything. Balance of probability in my mind if either of them ever flips red I'm green binning the other

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Lol Fuck mobile posting random quotes.

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Can we get rid of this feature. I have literally never seen someone use it any way other than accidentally.

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Lol

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That was so perfect i thought it was on purpose

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Eh VOTE: Dann

I apologize if you're merely demotivated in the same way i am but i have yet to recognize the same earnestness that i have seen out of you as town before outside of the one case you wrote.

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Perhaps this pressure will drag you back in if you're town.

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Why? Feel free to give me post numbers instead of explaining again.

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I'm not going to do that while phone posting in my undies but i will look at it tomorrow when I'm supposed to be doing good honest work.

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I'm worried about Datisi being scum simply because i think that's the most dangerous world for town even if i don't think it's the most likely.

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I could institute my own trial by combat where i make two people play a game and then execute the one who loses.

That sounds way more fun than this mechanic.

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One thing I was thinking about last night is people keep bringing up this theory that scum are demoralized and I'm not sure I buy that world.

We've miselimed twice and the one scum flip had basically no associatives.

So I don't think scum is in as bad a spot as people seem to keep claiming they would be, which makes me worry the people saying that have an agenda.

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I mean I think the intended check on it being follow the cop is that all three of the involved roles are not alignment confirmed, nor is the king that assigns them.

If all those roles are town it does seem like it turns into follow the cop very quickly, which is why this game hinges on Datisi's alignment.

I agree it seems like a very weird mechanic to make the game hinge on, even if its only in one (everyone is town) world.

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Which part do you want me to clarify/which part do you not understand?

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The doctor can choose to not protect the cop. The master of coin can choose to not fund the cop. There is a JK which could stop the cop in scum hands.

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Though the more I think about it, the cop just gets replaced with a different person and if the cop just keeps dying we just lim.

So its really only the master of coin and the cop itself whose alignments matter in this circumstance.

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What is the point of accepting challenges?

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It's 5%, right?

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Is a 5% chance you, the only person you know for sure to be town, die worth a 5% chance that someone you scum read dies?

I wouldn't take that trade as town most of the time.

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Ah. Missed that. Also, do we know if trial death ends the day?

Not clear from the post.

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How do we know that? The end the day thing.

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There can be 2, in the case of failure on one or both.

My question is if someone dies does it end the day.

and I've got Mod confirmation now it doesn't anyway, so that's nice

@pooky can we get confirmation of this in thread please.

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that's another good point, I don't like that FB has tried to push the idea of "all town council" since like the start of the game

Andres was the primary pusher of this theory in the council thread, fwiw.

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but who is scum hardbussing in that world? Datisi? and even if you're going for a hard bus, the dream is to get another miselim first so that the hardbussers can continue to further hard bus and then play the "y'all should have listened to me when you wasted a lim on GL" card

datisi seems like the most likely hardbusser in any world to me, yea

Datisi is 100% not afraid to hardbus.


Fire, am I being crazy here? Shea, please weigh in. I need opinions to talk me down if I am.

This paranoia from you is the most town I've felt about you all game tbh.

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that's another good point, I don't like that FB has tried to push the idea of "all town council" since like the start of the game

Andres was the primary pusher of this theory in the council thread, fwiw.

No, im pretty sure i have been.

Well, I'm certainly not going to go back and check the small council thread but I remember andres saying it quite a bit.

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I'll fight you furtive.

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Nah I'll just respond to your challenge by shooting you.

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so far the claim is that my night kills are the person who was most town reading me on day 1, the person who was my strongest town read who was town reading me strongly on n2 and now apparently I followed that up by NKing the person who was most strongly trying to stop me from being overthrown.

You'd think after more than a decade I'd be better at picking night kills but sure.

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(worthwhile to note that math thought I was scum after replacing in, but that's not good hyperbole.)

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So do it.

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So when do we get our blood sport pooky.

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Who Wants JDodge.

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It's nice to get confirmation that baltors Datisi paranoia was coming from town.

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Why aren't we limming dann?

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???????

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Spicy.

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Am I the only one who has noticed that Enchant hasn't done anything in several game days.

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After VP flipped Green by PoE of my reads I have stated it’s obvious I push Dann.

except

you never said anything about dannflor

so who all were your townreads to make him scum by poe?

@Mastina
Read the fucking PT, ignore this shit.
In the PT I gave my opinion on Dann way before all this shit.

“The only one you can trust is yourself.” - Classic Mafia Quote
So look at the PT for yourself and see what I said in regards to Dann.

for reference, drapion's posts on dann

1) on n1, in response to mastina saying dann/GL/VP are scum, saying that you think GL and VP are but you aren't sold on dann

2) on n3, again pushing mastina's solve but saying again that you think VP/GL are scum, but not dann. you say that datisi is the least likely wolf of the group, dann is more likely than him

3) shortly after, you say you'd look at dann/unowen if GL or VP flip town. no reasoning, just that

4) when eiralox is already in and the dann flip is basically inevitable, you say you've concluded furtive is town and dann is wolf, with no reasoning

thats all

Are there posts here fire is missing, drap?

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I mean it would be cool if we still have a town VPB around.

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I think what I think about this game ultimately comes down to how I feel about datisi's alignment. I will need to deep dive that at some point and try to at least know what I think and why. Gun to my head datisi is town and we're in a great spot.

But my brain is doing the thing.

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I don’t think Firebringer explained why they picked Dann during SoD1 for his council and how everyone else got into the original council besides the wolf.
I just think that’s like wolfy tbh.

This does not answer my question.

Fireisred posted a list of your posts in the thread. Is it missing them? Because its clearly not very much at all so either fireisred is lying or you are.

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Pooky has very actively refused to answer any questions about whether or not we can actually put new people on the council.

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I'm unclear on why today over a later day?

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So its a simple follow the cop world with a town cop, and scum have been leaving the cop and all of his checks alive, instead trying to shoot FB or fireisred last night

we have been protecting the cop until yesterday.
for all scum knew one of datisi checks has also been protected (they weren't, but for all we know they don't know that).
To go and say 'its weird that dats and all the cop clears are alive' is like....That is the point of us having the JK/Doc guard them? What even is this argument.

Its just paranoia. Thats all there is to all of this. And we know scum have made what we all thought were questionable kills.

Ugh. Why do i bother.

but you can't protect all of Datisi/Mastina/Titus, especially with a JK which would make Datisi/Mastina useless

why has scum not tried to shoot Mastina? not tried to shoot Titus?

last night the kingsguard was Titus, GL, LLD, furtive, if Datisi is town and it's a GL/furtive team that seems like a pretty sweet time to make a run at Lord Commander by killing conf-town Titus

I feel you on no one has cased Datisi yet. I might try to do that if it will genuinely change your mind. but one issue is Datisi is a good mafia player and I wasn't really even suspecting him myself until he's had 3 checks and not given us any mafia with them. I doubt I could currently make a super convincing lock scum case even if I knew personally for a fact he was scum!

Regardless, a lack of a traditional mafia psychology case doesn't mean the mechanical argument is not good.

I don't understand this argument because even in the world where datisi is scum I'm sure not all of the clears are scum. I don't think scum!datisi just clears his 3 partners off the bat.

So that means that at least one of those people is town, so if scum were interested in shooting the conf town they could still just shoot the one that is town in either world.

In fact, them doing so would make datisi look better.

Like this only makes sense if you're making the argument that all of mastina-datisi-titus are scum together, otherwise scum could have shot in that group regardless.

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that's a fairly good argument

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datisi I know you saw this because you posted in small council. What are your thoughts on this?

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datisi I know you saw this because you posted in small council. What are your thoughts on this?

how

rude

i have skimmed, and by skimmed i mean *heavily* skimmed. i don't intend to fight my yeet too hard because i understand whoever wants my death is just gonna be parroting the mechanical argument ad nauseam. but i do sense that there is very strong scum motivation to getting me yeeted, and i intend to reread those pushing for it to try to leave y'all in a better position after i die. i will get to doing that in a lil' bit, about to eat dinner

What would that strong scum motivation be?

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i was continuously being protected up until last night. scum couldn't kill me. i think it's v obvious i'm town via dayplay, so the only way to score my misyeet is by arguing the mechanics.

So the motivation for scum is to get you in particular yeeted?

Do you actually think you will end game here as town? It's hard for me to believe that you believe that.

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It also ignores that the two people most strongly calling for Datisi lim today are GL who is someone Datisi has been implicitly town reading all game and LLD a person he should know is clear via his own investigations.

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i have skimmed, and by skimmed i mean *heavily* skimmed. i don't intend to fight my yeet too hard because i understand whoever wants my death is just gonna be parroting the mechanical argument ad nauseam. but i do sense that there is very strong scum motivation to getting me yeeted, and i intend to reread those pushing for it to try to leave y'all in a better position after i die. i will get to doing that in a lil' bit, about to eat dinner

Like am I the only person who finds this comment incredibly awkward and forced considering the two specific people who are pushing this narrative? It's like Datisi knows that town!dats would probably not be that upset about being yeeted but had a hard time squaring it with the actual reality of the push which is primarily coming from someone he has a clear on.

I have a hard time really thinking scum!LLD would be pushing for this because contrary to the claim, I don't really see a lot of motivation for scum to get datisi in particular rn, considering the cop role persists. And in a world where datisi is getting shit pushed LLD has to be town?

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I don't think anyone is claiming you're lurking.

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Great game everyone. Pooky i think this setup was super interesting and this game took years off my life

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This is a celebratory post in honor of JunkoChan who can't post here.

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I can't believe people thought there was any world in which scum me kills Luke.

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So demanding

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I dont know how you could possibly call a game follow the cop ignoring the many checks the mod put into the setup to make it not that at all including ignoring the fact that there were actual 0 cop results this game.

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I think you were a really important part of this game. Having you lock towned and being able to rely on you to make sensible decisions with the kings guard was huge.

I also think you were pretty important for keeping me alive through my bad d1 decision and seeing through it to seeing me town.

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I was very pleased with my council picks. It was the best my reads were all game lmao.

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Yeah and i deliberately have him cop because i thought he could do the least damage with that because i was hedging against him being the scum i was sure was in {gl dat VPB}

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I mean part of the issue is that i just didn't really believe that mastina was town, even with the check.

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I wonder if the correct play from Titus is to just let mastina die in the overthrow. Limiting the Poe to just kingsgaurd with you and gl just completely clear by play was a 0%er.

Not really sure there was a good play though.

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I love setups based on the olden days.