Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[outoforder]

Morning

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So slow. Smells like lot of americans in this gme.

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Why so scared Vivax?

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Having joined this game specifically to play with outoforder I would rather not eliminate them for the lolz.

I agree

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Just an fyi for Timezone purposes I’m in Australia.

Im Finland

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Yes <3

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Spoiler:

hey can people start placing votes down, random or not

it would make it much easier to start getting firm reasons

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

I feel like Dann is trying hard to look Town.

I agree that random voting stage is overhyped, and I prefer my votes to have substance behind them.

I dont understand why Dann is trying to tie themselves to me, considering i have no idea who they are. Im not too sure of anything yet, but i find this the towniest post in thread so far.

[outoforder]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

You can be town

[outoforder]

Vivax prolly town too

[outoforder]

Do you really think i am mafia Vivax?

[outoforder]

I would claim mason with vivax if i was mason.

[outoforder]

I like this ninj guy

[outoforder]

vivax is there a reason you didn't explain random voting stage to your friend

I don´t view myself as above DP, we´re used to doing things differently. I like having him around cause he´s good at keeping my sanity in check, and I just pretend to be his angry chihuahua.

We´re past RVS now. If RVS was an issue, it´d be an issue for Roden as well. So that´s not the point of discussion we should be having in my opinion.

You know what RVS stands for.
Why were you scared of the rvs vote placed on you at the start of the game?

[outoforder]

It’s the start of day one, isn’t this the time of any
To not necessarily hard commit to things?

you seem to have the idea that voting somewhere equal a hard commit

yes. quote me up for that as well.

[outoforder]

It’s the start of day one, isn’t this the time of any
To not necessarily hard commit to things?

you seem to have the idea that voting somewhere equal a hard commit

think we'll probably not end up agreeing on that particular point of mafia philosophy

are you going to do something in thus game?

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

If you did it for a reaction, why not wait for outoforder's reaction?

this guy is prolly scum.

[outoforder]

Dannflor is town anyways so..

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

You made a legitimate point about how scum are more likely to take things seriously.

Darth argued with you at length about how random voting stage is rather silly, that each and every vote should be taken seriously. In other words, they made a case for why scum might take things seriously and created a space where their actions seem more understandable. They effectively tried to remove this strategy of yours to suspect people if they take things too seriously, which IMO is a totally valid strategy and your logic is sound, which now helps scum look less suspicious in this game if they overreact to things. Darth dispelled a totally valid point you made about something town could use to help find scum.

Your reaction to this was to forgive Darth and back off. Is that not, like, a bit odd? Aren't you concerned that Darth could be playing you here?

I especially like the conclusion of this post, ninja can be town.

Maybe I was wrong in that they can‘t be partnered, some of their attitudes towards each other were over the top but that could also be explained by DP rather siding with me and Dann rather with OOO. Could just be two townies fighting over thread influence too.

Back to work.

why???
this is so stupid.

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

You made a legitimate point about how scum are more likely to take things seriously.

Darth argued with you at length about how random voting stage is rather silly, that each and every vote should be taken seriously. In other words, they made a case for why scum might take things seriously and created a space where their actions seem more understandable. They effectively tried to remove this strategy of yours to suspect people if they take things too seriously, which IMO is a totally valid strategy and your logic is sound, which now helps scum look less suspicious in this game if they overreact to things. Darth dispelled a totally valid point you made about something town could use to help find scum.

Your reaction to this was to forgive Darth and back off. Is that not, like, a bit odd? Aren't you concerned that Darth could be playing you here?

I especially like the conclusion of this post, ninja can be town.

Maybe I was wrong in that they can‘t be partnered, some of their attitudes towards each other were over the top but that could also be explained by DP rather siding with me and Dann rather with OOO. Could just be two townies fighting over thread influence too.

Back to work.

Vibes, I would say 50% correct. It doesnt sit well with me, the post i mean.

[outoforder]

Last post was to Naerys,

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how do i vote?

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VOTE: Luca Blight

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lets murder mafia ok?

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sorry lets sacamaalalaskljksdaidn mafia ok?

[outoforder]

VOTE: outoforder

VOTE: Dannflor

Terrible.

If you want me to talk more about why I am a little sus of DarthPunk, this reaction is part of the reason why.

Outoforder said a thing about they think Dannflor might be trying to cozy up to them. Dannflor then reacted by voting for Outoforder.

Now you can either look at that as a joke, or you can see that Dannflor is unironically just trying to distance himself from Outoforder. One interpretation is that this was meaningless and another is, IMO, totally understandable. Thus, I don't really get why DarthPunk took so much issue with it. It's scummy to take issue with stuff on flimsy evidence, since scum know they're never going to get solid evidence of anything and thus must jump on even the flimsiest of cases and hope it somehow blows up into something legitimate.

Like it's just weird I guess. It didn't strike me as a scummy activity at all so I guess I just don't follow the thought process that might make someone think it was, other than a very simplified "there's a vote with little rationale behind it, go after it", which isn't much of a case so early in the day.

There is nothing scummy there.
I don't know Dannflor from before, how do you take that?

[outoforder]

If Random voting is some part of the metagame here then that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

It is . Deal with it.

[outoforder]

If Random voting is some part of the metagame here then that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Im thinking its dannfloor VOTE: dannfloor

this guy is probably mafia #2

[outoforder]

Vivax
Ninja dude
Dann

town

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

If you did it for a reaction, why not wait for outoforder's reaction?

this guy is prolly scum.

Curious, i personally got town vibes from luca

Explain please?
You are queuing up for #3 atm ^^

[outoforder]

Luca is just commenting, they are not trying to solve.

[outoforder]

Like we have all this shit with Vivax, DP, Ninja dude, Dann, etc,...
I can see those people trying to solve (even if bad).

Luca no, gob maybe no.

[outoforder]

now idk why Naerys would say that if mafia with Luca.
But that's for later, i dont think they are mafia together atm.

[outoforder]

HBD DarthPunk! <3

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outoforder can be town

shit youre so good

[outoforder]

you. why do you think it's Dann?

[outoforder]

Hmm i have to work on my quoting posts on this site..
Pardon me.

[outoforder]

outoforder can be town

shit youre so good

why the attitude my friend?

Posts like this.
Do you think my "attitude" or whatever makes me mafia?
If not, why even comment on that.

How do you think you have furthered the game along? Who is mafia, if Dunn, why?

[outoforder]

you. why do you think it's Dann?

usually when he does the random callouts “x js town” or “x is scum,” he is mafia. Its how he tries to look liek hes doing something

Does this check out?

[outoforder]

I will let you press me for more info.
Waiting.

[outoforder]

My last quote got screwed up, but outoforder was the one who said "this guy is probably mafia #2" and I'm hoping for more of an explanation on that opinion.

idk if gob is mafia tbh, but Luca is.

[outoforder]

VOTE: outoforder

VOTE: Dannflor

Terrible.

If you want me to talk more about why I am a little sus of DarthPunk, this reaction is part of the reason why.

Outoforder said a thing about they think Dannflor might be trying to cozy up to them. Dannflor then reacted by voting for Outoforder.

Now you can either look at that as a joke, or you can see that Dannflor is unironically just trying to distance himself from Outoforder. One interpretation is that this was meaningless and another is, IMO, totally understandable. Thus, I don't really get why DarthPunk took so much issue with it. It's scummy to take issue with stuff on flimsy evidence, since scum know they're never going to get solid evidence of anything and thus must jump on even the flimsiest of cases and hope it somehow blows up into something legitimate.

Like it's just weird I guess. It didn't strike me as a scummy activity at all so I guess I just don't follow the thought process that might make someone think it was, other than a very simplified "there's a vote with little rationale behind it, go after it", which isn't much of a case so early in the day.

There is nothing scummy there.
I don't know Dannflor from before, how do you take that?

I dunno? None of my takes have been based on anything that happened in any games previous to this one. If you and Dannflor had some long and storied history with one another, I'd still hope that you evaluated his thoughts and actions in the context of this game and not biased by previous ones. I don't have any history with anyone here, but speaking for myself, if I did, I'd honestly do everything in my power to forget it and force myself to judge their thoughts and actions in this game and this game alone.

I'm not sure what to make of everything you just said and did. You offered a lot of opinions but hardly any rationale for any of it. I don't think any of us are particularly concerned with exactly what you believe as we are with WHY you believe it.

Like let me press you for more info on a few things, give me a moment...

(wow, 4 new posts since I started writing this)

I would like you to press me more on this please.

[outoforder]

May I introduce to you Post 177? lol

Hmm okay, in that post, you said
1) Luca is not mafia because you agreed with him, and you backed it up with what

someone else (Dann) did...

2) I think Dann is town because he would most likely not be so blatantly tying himself up with a townie here. It might cause him problems, as i see it.
3) I dont really think gob is mafia, so...

[outoforder]

ISOing Luca cause I didn‘t really see how he‘s scum (so far) like Outoforder is suggesting. Seems I missed the question.

VOTE: outoforder

I could get behind this vote. I don`t see where the assumption I was scared came from if not from within.

VOTE: OutofOrder

(Hey DP, I think they`re trying to tell us we have to vote for him. I´m not sure but these people might be a cannibal tribe)

Why did you wait for someone else to vote first if you found this suspect from Outoforder?

I didn‘t wait, it‘s how I found the thread when I opened it.
If I can find a reason to vote for him I will. The notion that I was scared from you didn‘t compute. Giddy would have been more accurate.

Can‘t finish the ISO currently but I wouldn‘t mind outoforder expanding on why Luca is scum.

Not solving.
Me so goodio.

[outoforder]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol

[outoforder]

Yeah statistically i can be mafia, you can be mafia, anyone can be mafia.
Using statistics to prove someone is mafia is bad. Because it does not work like that.

[outoforder]

Morning. Gonna catch up soon, Saturday is a board game day so i am a little bit behind.

[outoforder]

First of all i am a player that doesnt explain myself fully when i feel like there is no need to do that. I assume people can read between the lines well enough (since this is a mafia game) to find the intentions behind the posting, or at least make interpretations of them, right or wrong (but you can still figure out if they are genuine or not.

Now for Dann's comment on me. My interpretation of the situation is, that i don't think Dann would make that (tieing up to me) as mafia. I am not saying that's something mafia wouldnt do, because it is. I am saying Dann wouldnt do that to me (while yes, i fully understand it was ironic post). That's because Dann doesn't know me, and Dann doesn't know how i will react to that post. Who is to say i wont see that as trying to pocket me (that wouldnt be unreasonable), and while he can still claim it's a joke post that doesnt matter as he has already taken some unnecessary heat on him, just look at what happened.

For this whole thing that went on, i found Luca scummy. Why do i say that? It's because of this. Here's what Dann said about his vote and unvote after discussing with DP:

my vote was not because they "called me out for creating an association" (what exactly would be the benefit of me doing that anyway?)

I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

it might simply be a case of me not making my parody clear enough, outoforder having a more serious personality, or the worst case scenario... i just wasn't funny.

i don't think the vote carries a lot of weight now that ive talked about the process behind it

Like in the last post

he literally explains

why he unvotes me.
After that Luca makes this post:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

I don't understand this. All the information is there already for him to make an educated guess on if Dann's posts are being honest or not. He seems just wanting to press the issue because other people are/were pressing the issue. I understand he is being reasonable, but being reasonable doesn't exclude anyone from being mafia. Hell most of the time mafia wants to be reasonable, but this is like... idk overly reasonable lol. Luca here

should have all the necessary information

to make a call on Dann's posting on the matter and my alignment (or what Dann thinks about it now),

should not

matter there.

Other posts after that that worry me from Luca:

I'm not one for spewing my townreads early on, especially when they tend to be fairly consensus reads, but I'm currently leaning Town on Ninja, Vivax, Darth and outoforder. I still don't feel great about Dann's posts at the moment. Gob tonally seems quite townie but is probably the sort of player I will have a hard time reading D1. No-one else has left much of an impression yet.

I don't want to give townreads this early but hey let's call almost half of the game town.

He thinks Roden vs Oats is S/S, but for some reason he wants Oats to focus on gob rather than Roden?????

Roden is scum because he is aggressive, defensive and power wolfing.
Dann before his 374 post is possibly mafia because he is nice.
Like what other traits there basically is ?

[outoforder]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

[outoforder]

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early, and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something? And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

[outoforder]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

[outoforder]

Because youre good playing as mafia.

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

For this whole thing that went on, i found Luca scummy. Why do i say that? It's because of this. Here's what Dann said about his vote and unvote after discussing with DP:

my vote was not because they "called me out for creating an association" (what exactly would be the benefit of me doing that anyway?)

I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

it might simply be a case of me not making my parody clear enough, outoforder having a more serious personality, or the worst case scenario... i just wasn't funny.

i don't think the vote carries a lot of weight now that ive talked about the process behind it

Like in the last post

he literally explains

why he unvotes me.
After that Luca makes this post:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

I don't understand this. All the information is there already for him to make an educated guess on if Dann's posts are being honest or not. He seems just wanting to press the issue because other people are/were pressing the issue. I understand he is being reasonable, but being reasonable doesn't exclude anyone from being mafia. Hell most of the time mafia wants to be reasonable, but this is like... idk overly reasonable lol. Luca here

should have all the necessary information

to make a call on Dann's posting on the matter and my alignment (or what Dann thinks about it now),

should not

matter there.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in your last paragraph, but the reason I asked the question was because, at the time, I wasn't sure as to Dann's real motivations/intentions behind the push/subsequent unvote. It felt as though he had taken some pressure for it and was in the process of backing off and underplaying it, despite having aired some seemingly genuine reasons to scumread you previously, so I found the choice of words 'not very well placed', referring to his vote on you, to be interesting and I sought clarification as to whether he had actually changed his opinion on you based on the reactions he received to his vote, seeing as you hadn't posted in the meantime. I was also considering the fact that Dann had been championing the general act of voting rather than not voting, so this move just struck me as pretty counter-intuitive at the time as well.

Basically, I held a light suspicion that Dann was caving to the pressure a little that made him react in a way I didn't see as natural in the context, which is why I wanted to press him a little further on the issue. This is redundant now as Dann's recent posting has been very townie.

I understand your point, and i completely understand on surface level your posting during the time.
However, what i

dont understand

is why you couldnt figure this out earlier (your last post i quoted on the matter). For me it looked very clear what Dann was doing.
- He made a joke (again i dont get why he even would do that as mafia --

a joke in that way

)
- He got pressed on his "pressure vote" (or whatever) on me
- He realised this isnt doing what it was supposed to do (which is reasonable), so he backed off of it so that the thread doesn't fill up with "nonsense"
- He explained why he did what he did, and why he backed off of it

Again, i don't see what my alignment has to do here. That was not Dann's point. Regardless of what Dann thinks of my alignment, this whole thing doesn't help him to figure out my alignment -- if anything it just causes more confusion in the thread. It's a pretty simple interpretation of the situation, yet for some reason i read you wanting to continue this confusion by making him over-explain things that you should already deduce from what had been said.

Other posts after that that worry me from Luca:

I'm not one for spewing my townreads early on, especially when they tend to be fairly consensus reads, but I'm currently leaning Town on Ninja, Vivax, Darth and outoforder. I still don't feel great about Dann's posts at the moment. Gob tonally seems quite townie but is probably the sort of player I will have a hard time reading D1. No-one else has left much of an impression yet.

I don't want to give townreads this early but hey let's call almost half of the game town.

He thinks Roden vs Oats is S/S, but for some reason he wants Oats to focus on gob rather than Roden?????

Roden is scum because he is aggressive, defensive and power wolfing.
Dann before his 374 post is possibly mafia because he is nice.
Like what other traits there basically is ?

This quote of mine was literally in response to you accusing me of not 'solving'. I don't normally solve by giving townreads willy-nilly, but I did it for the benefit of showing where my thought-process was at given your accusation.

I don't 'want' Oats to focus on Gob than Roden? try reading that part again as you've completely missed the point.

Do all scum play Mafia in the same way? Your last point is quite absurd.

If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)? If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time?

Then why did you ask multiple times if Oats also meta'd gob? What's the point? I mean, at that point you think Oats and Roden are both mafia and gob is possibly not mafia. Do you think mafia!Oats goes all the way meta'ing mafia!Roden, they pick a huge fight with each other, but then Oats refuses to meta EITHER town! or mafia!gob???? Why would he refuse to meta town!gob? He already did that to his mafia teammate, why in any world does he NOT go meta gob and come to whatever conclusion? Same if gob is mafia with Oats (yet i think claiming all Oats, Roden and gob are mafia is just ridiculous and Oats would have made probably the worst play ever seen at the start of the game).

I just simply don't understand how your questions are very reasonable regarding the situation where those three people were -- or in situation where they have put themselves.

Not all mafia pay the same way. But you don't offer much of explanation for how that behavior comes from mafia. Being aggressive or defensive is not in itself a mafia trait. Being nice is not a mafia trait. Basically almost anything could be considered as "power wolfing" (i don't really even know what that means, it sounds stupid). I mean like you are being defensive here. People are defensive when they are accused of being mafia. Does that make you mafia?

[outoforder]

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

[outoforder]

I have no idea why you think Rosen and gob are town btw.

Can you explain that cause I must of missed it

I don't think Roden picks up the fight with Oats (from his part) they way he does as mafia. He has all the avenues to pursue there that actually make him look good and Oats bad, yet he chooses to act like that. I simply just don't think he addresses the whole situation with Oats like he did.

I also don't think gob ends up voting Vivax with

that reasoning

as mafia. I simply just refuse to believe mafia made that vote post on Vivax.

[outoforder]

Fine Luca, maybe i believe your point on Oats / Roden.
It's just that when i see someone saying "this looks like S/S interaction", i believe they think both are mafia.

[outoforder]

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think

it's possible

you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and

because of that only

, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.

Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?

If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it

, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?

- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless

you actually think you are not solving the game

, which you shouldn't as town)

[outoforder]

What makes you to go from this:

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I agree that Luca doesn't looks scummy like OoO is saying but I did like one post from him so far.

to this...

Maybe OoO but like I said I don't have much of a strong read

?

[outoforder]

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

Is this why you think Roden is mafia, Luca?

[outoforder]

Hey Vivax what's up?

[outoforder]

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

Is this why you think Roden is mafia, Luca?

I'm leaning scum on Roden for his part in that whole interaction - it didn't feel like he was being genuine at all, and just felt prickly like he was annoyed at being called out rather than genuinely scumhunting. He has since withdrawn his scumread in 345 which in a way is fair enough, but Oats coming from another site/his initial outrage seemed a weak thing to drag out to this point, which could be scum just picking on something to make themselves seem productive. There has been nothing else about Roden's play so far that makes me think he is Town, so I will wait and see what his catch-up holds as so far he has presented a very limited scope of the game despite his relative activity.

346 - also rubs me the wrong way a bit - Roden's initial question seemed, at least to me, quite irrelevant at the time of asking, and I would argue it still is irrelevant actually. I kind of read this as scum frustration that they got dragged into something unnecessarily because of someone not answering a simple question, which made them look bad.

Which Roden's initial question are you talking about? Post 234 or what, since you said "I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote"?

[outoforder]

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

What's wrong with these posts knowing that RVS is a standard on this forum and knowing at least three people already are from another forum where it's not?

[outoforder]

Like i can't comment on what Roden hasn't posted about, but i think his approach towards Oats is perfectly understandable considering how Oats acted, throughout the whole discussion.

I am looking forward towards his next step though, it should be quite telling since he doesn't seem to think Oats is mafia anymore, and that i am.

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think

it's possible

you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and

because of that only

, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.

I haven't brushed anything away - I literally just said i understood where you were going from initially, which is why I made an effort to present my reads in a more transparent way.

Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?

If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it

, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?

I've answered that already, and once again just above.

- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless

you actually think you are not solving the game

, which you shouldn't as town)

The problem is that you're not reading properly. I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially. What I said was that most of the things Roden accused oat of, including defensiveness, had also been displayed by Roden himself.

Nowhere have I ever said that being defensive automatically equals scum, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure why this even needs to be explained, as it should be obvious?

I've answered that already, and once again just above.

I don't know if i believe this answer to be genuine, because if someone accused me of not trying to solve the game my reaction would not be "hey let's post five town reads i would not post otherwise", but rather "what are you talking about i am doing my best to figure out mafia here?????"

I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially.

No you didn't. I just made that interpretation which you just confirmed

Anyways, at least you have answered the concerns and i don't think you can give anything else that helps me figure out your alignment so far.
UNVOTE: Luca Blight

So i am gonna this for now, i have to think what i actually think of all of this, and i am going to let you do whatever you do.

[outoforder]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

[outoforder]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Yeah mine didn‘t work either so I carpeted half a page.

Do you think that Naerys voting pattern looks bad ? What makes her stand out for you over Dunn and Hu Tao ?

lol what is this even? Ofc it looks bad to me ^^

Not much, just that the "catch up" was super terrible...

[outoforder]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

gob at the time of this post did you really believe in what you are saying here?
If yes, do you still believe in this heuristic or not, and if not, when did you stop believing in it?

[outoforder]

I dont really see any chemistry between those order mentioned, so order themselves could be scum

Can you explain the logic between this?

[outoforder]

behind*

[outoforder]

I'd really like to be in the thread at the same time as OOO for a bit.

Im here now if you are. 5 mins and i am caught up.

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: Naerys

[outoforder]

I don't believe Hu Tao is mafia either.

[outoforder]

Vivax probably is after all.
I mean like he has successfully identified things about mine, Oats' and DP's play -- that all are our town traits, yet he construes them as our mafia traits.

[outoforder]

I'm wondering why Naerys is still on OoO

Oatmaster and gob are scum buddies

They are poking into me still voting order, trying to make me look scummy
Why do you think that?

Well she at least did something, which i consider actually doing something comparing it to her view of doing something in a mafia game.

[outoforder]

I'd really like to be in the thread at the same time as OOO for a bit.

Im here now if you are. 5 mins and i am caught up.

I’ll be back in a couple of hours have to cook dinner and hang with the gf.

I have to go to work in 3 hrs or so and i am unable to play at work.

[outoforder]

Like i can follow the game at times but i have very little time inbetween tasks and posting with a phone is a pain in the ass.

[outoforder]

Dunnstral, Vivax, i dont really know.

[outoforder]

Maybe Roden is after all mafia?

[outoforder]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

[outoforder]

Can you look at Dann again Rayn he looks scummy to me.

I really don't have a reason to believe he doesn't believe in what he is posting.

[outoforder]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

Luca vibes town hard to me.

Sure, i will blame you if all of you are wrong.

[outoforder]

Can you look at Dann again Rayn he looks scummy to me.

I really don't have a reason to believe he doesn't believe in what he is posting.

Is he trying to solve or trying to post cases

I dont know to be honest. I dont feel like most of the people outside TL are trying to solve in a sense i consider solving, so i am not sure if that in itself is a good metric reading those people.
What i do know however is, that
1) i found his early game really townie
2) he had a good point on Ninja, her read on Luca. Like Luca himself commented on the post that Ninja said makes him "super town", that it wasnt even a real reads post, but just rather a commentary on which of Roden's posts are aggressive, defensive, etc. For some reason a commentary on posts results in "super town" read in Ninja's head (even after Luca has already clarified the post in discussion with me).
3) i can see how in Dann's world he thinks your play comes from mafia. I definitely don't agree and he's never gonna get you lynched for that.

And for that i am not really interested in Dann at the moment. I think his play comes more likely from town, and if he is mafia he is gonna give himself away sooner or later. Note that his list post says:

[...]
MIXED/NULL: Dunnstral, Naerys, MalcolmTucker, Roden
LEAN SCUM: Vivax
SCUM: DarthPunk

Now he's not getting you lynched. He's definitely not getting Grackaroni lynched. I don't think he's gonna get Naerys lynched.
I don't care whoever else he tries to actually lynch at the EoD1 atm.

The most bothering thing about Dann is that every now and then he pings Dunnstral, but then he goes back to do something completely different. Now i

can see

a townie reason for this, but i admit there is a moderate chance of distancing, because that's some pretty vague shit.

[outoforder]

I mean like...
Even if Dann is mafia, there is like 90% chance there is at least 2 mafia in that NULL->SCUM list of his.
I am gonna let him bus if he wants to bus, or if he's town, his reads are pretty good.

[outoforder]

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

I'm mostly trying to establish how people play and what to expect of them.
I am in no hurry, we have more than 5 irl day left.
I don't give a shit if you think i am interested or not.

[outoforder]

On ninja:

Spoiler:

And maybe ninja but only if you have time.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

I liked this post because i can see how Ninja would think that. Now i know that this doesn't mean anything alignment-wise for DP, but it's not a bad notion if you consider the culture of the site.

I genuinely dislike people who say "this is what a townie should do in this situation and this is what mafia would do and look i am doing the townie thing" to explain their actions, however again, because of the site culture i dont think thats necessarily scummy for her.

As i already said i don't like how she ended up on her read on Luca, or rather the level of confidence of it.

This is the most i have issues with Ninja. I said i think Dann is town because:

"..he would most likely not be so blatantly tying himself up with a townie here. It might cause him problems"

Now Ninja to this responds:

"That is, of course, dependent on the other person actually BEING town.

Is there not a great deal of confirmation bias going on with your reads?

"

What confirmation bias? Is it confirmation bias that i think i am town????? This is honestly a sole reason why Ninja is mafia if she is.

I have posted at least two times with clear words why i think gob is town. I am not sure why someone actually reading the thread has missed it.

Nevertheless, there are some clearly townie traits/things in her posting. She's openly willing to enter discussions about anything, and i don't think her take on Dann's case is unreasonable at all. I mean like if someone in TL said "after OOO i am ready to move to gob", that would be 100% mafia just luncherino straight out post immediately. But it's not like that here, i have seen more stupid leaps of logic coming from town. Also for someone who seems so self-concious, that doesn't really seem like something they would say as mafia. I also agree, especially towards what has happened in the last day or so, that her take on Oats/Roden seems pretty good.

[outoforder]

Considering the low content posters, aka the pool of gob / Hu Tao / Naerys / Dunnstrall
- Through the whole game gob has seemed proactive rather than reactive in his own way
- Similar to Hu Tao (especially her) and Naerys, during last irl day

- Dunstrall seems not proactive at all, only reactive

[outoforder]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

[outoforder]

I find her really difficult to evaluate to be honest, because wherever she has played mafia before she clearly operates and analyzes the game on a set of fundamental principles that I agree with such as:

In post 341, gob wrote:
I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

Okay. Then that confirms that you are, once again, just "posting for the sake of posting" and are not actively engaged in solving things for town.

And she is also pushing the thread along, making people justify their positions which is all good stuff.

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

what are the good arguments that dannflor has made?

I do wonder what Superfluous is referring to in this post with her post about Dannfloor if not the post about herself, which I know she says she missed in a later post. That's the bulk of his content that I've noted at this point and the most aggressive post that he's made.

This is why she is mafia if she is mafia. She has dann as very active and aggressive which does not match reality in a world in which she doesn't see the big case against her. It just isn't a realistic assessment of the state of his filter at that time without the post.

So is she lying about missing the post? Is her analysis of his play contrived?

Add that to the waffling/contradictions and the blatant image curation that is occurring and she is tough to read.

But I really do not understand how that assessment of Dann can come from town, so I guess she is just mafia.

You are right.
There is also the thing with Luca that somehow the reasoning which made her think Luca is "super town" doesn't appear in the reasons why Luca is town.

[outoforder]

But i don't really understand why she doesn't put me in scum category there.
There should be nothing wrong for her to do that, it would just give her more suspects.
Or is it just being irrational = mafia?

[outoforder]

Town: DarthPunk, SuperfluousNinja

Suspicious: Naerys, Roden

Can you go a bit further for the reasoning for these reads?

[outoforder]

Dunnstral, Vivax, i dont really know.

Can you articulate why you believe I am mafia?

Because you have posted basically no substance at all.
I know some of what you think, i have no idea why you think what you think.

[outoforder]

The most bothering thing about Dann is that every now and then he pings Dunnstral, but then he goes back to do something completely different. Now i

can see

a townie reason for this, but i admit there is a moderate chance of distancing, because that's some pretty vague shit.

I think this is weird too. I'm not mafia though, this is all on Dann.

Dont worry. I will never ever use something some other person did to accuse you (or any player) of being mafia.

[outoforder]

But i don't really understand why she doesn't put me in scum category there.
There should be nothing wrong for her to do that, it would just give her more suspects.
Or is it just being irrational = mafia?

Scum and null are not that much different to mafia

The real question is why she town reads dann after apparently seeing only a vote post, on her, with no explanation.

When the best reason to think dann was town was the case she didn’t read…

yes i understand this.

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

gob is a hard read. You think they look like mafia because they're making sort of random claims and saying weird things but they do this sort of thing as town too. I don't think they're the type to get "scared" by what you are doing either superfluosninja.

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

What can i say, i prefer to observe from backround

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

There is like 7 of them. They can't all be scum

Trees hiding in a forest

I find this posting suggesting that wall posting is scummy without reading anything fairly suspicious

Here are my reasons. DarthPunk reads tonally as town to me.

Okay i have some questions about this:
- Why is Hu Tao in your suspect list when you told to Ninja she is suspicious?
- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

[outoforder]

*Why is Hu Tao not in your suspect list

[outoforder]

Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?

[outoforder]

- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

Well I liked that ninja said she was trying to do something with the activity stuff in that post. I do have a soft spot for big effort posts though.

Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?

I liked the last post Luca made about ninja's post, other than that I don't have much thought. Vivax has been making posts that seem weird to me but I wrote it off as playstyle differences.

And sure I don't have to agree with everything someone says to think they are town. I often don't.

Of course you dont, i wouldnt hold that against you.

But like, we've expressed some concerns in Ninja's post (with DP). Like... if Ninja posts like that (makes big posts with a lot of effort) as town, i wouldnt think she would act differently as mafia. For the posters who make wall of texts, it's often small nuances that give them out -- as you can look reasonable by posting 90% truth about other players as long as your vote ends up on someone who isnt mafia.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I find these to be those kind of small nuances that

could make her mafia

. I am not sure of it, but it's definitely something to look into imo.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

[outoforder]

Anyways i gotta get to work.

[outoforder]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

[outoforder]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

You seem agitated

VOTE: OoO

Talk to me about Oats?

Oats is town, what else?

[outoforder]

I don't even know what your case on me is, other than that i am playing the game as i do as town

[outoforder]

Don't pls.

[outoforder]

That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!

[outoforder]

That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!

Legitimately will lose interest if we don’t flip someone within the next 24 hours

Then stop playing. You joined a game with a 10 days D1.
It's basically impossible to not lynch mafia in 10 days, dont cut the day into 1/3 of it just because youre bored. Play the game.

[outoforder]

Yeah you know some people actually have a job and some other life, and can't be here all the time.
If that's your interpretation of my play, fine. You can't figure out my alignment anyways even if your life depended on it..

[outoforder]

I made a case on Vivax.
I think Roden is probably mafia also.
I am usure about the third and i am trying to read filters and shit to figure it out.

[outoforder]

I didn’t realize it put him at e-1 actually

I didn’t think there were that many votes on him

I have somewhat high expectations of Dunnstral that he hasn’t really met this game. I think he has the capability of being more insightful even with a lower engagement. He could be town, but I felt fine applying some pressure there in the moment

Can you link me to a past game of his where he expresses behavior you point out here?

[outoforder]

Ie if we yeet town, vivax doesn’t look bad for pushing a misyeet and he can continue to push his irrelevant targets and chill as a slightly sus townie because he won’t be in danger of the “why are you still alive” problem

Luca, this is probably one of the best and most correct things Oats has said in this game.

[outoforder]

Im gonna say that unless Ninja is portraying a character that isnt real in which case I think shed be playing more mafia, shes town.
I dont think it makes much sense to say the things shes said if she were mafia. especially the stuff regarding the game getting too personal.

Yeah she's probably town. She seems very self-aware of herself but when she makes posts she makes mistakes, like very obvious mistakes that contradict with what she has said before.
For instance, she puts Dunnstral in scum column in her list post, then posts reasons why he is mafia and says he is null.

I find it very unlike that someone who seems so self-aware (even if you read her as scum this is true so it would apply also if she's town) gives people ammunition like this to attack her. As mafia i would say with 90% certainty she would be very careful and definitely more likely to keep her story straight.

[outoforder]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

It's just random

The more i look at this, this whole scene here looks very unnatural and sketchy.

Random voting stage stands for this; You place a vote on someone hoping it would spark a reaction that is unexpected from them as town.

Now from Roden's side:
- There is a reason Roden voted for Vivax. the vote is not random. I don't care what the reason is, but there is a reason why he chose Vivax from all the players. Now Vivax responds with "why the vote?", which is (or can be considered) an unexpected reaction to a seemingly random vote. As i put it, "why so scared Vivax?"

From Vivax' side:
- I don't find it completely unreasonable to ask "why the vote". However, Vivax fairly well knows what RVS stands for and should not be interested in the vote at all unless he is either thinking there's some suspicious activity behind the vote (why Roden chose him of all the players), or trying to counter-bait a reaction from Roden (which should be expected with the "scummy" answer -- "why the vote?").

Instead of anything happening, fucking nothing at all happens with here, while both players have reasonable reasons to push this further. If not to find mafia, at least start the discussion about something relevant. I find this very likely to be S/S interaction.

[outoforder]

Im still really stuck on dann's very very quick reversal from ninja to dp so hed be the 3rd name I throw in there

Yeah i am not completely over DP's interpretation of "is Dann just making cases instead of trying to find mafia", i mean it entirely could be the thing. Especially as i am really struggling to find third mafia. But that's fine for now, that's why having like one million hours of D1 is super good.

[outoforder]

I would also like to know when you, Grackaroni, are completely caught up with the thread. Just for reasons.

[outoforder]

Dann also mentioned he unvoted dunn because he thought you were like soft mason claiming which doesnt make any sense to me? like that requires a big assumption that you are town to happen immediately in his brain

I think he has read me town all game, no? It kind of makes sense if he's telling the truth about not knowing himself putting Dunnstrall L-1.

[outoforder]

You have to consider him not knowing he put Dunnstrall at L-1.
If he really missed that, i don't think that's an unreasonable assumption, because how else "would i know dunn is town"?
If he didn't miss that, then obviously he is lying and mafia.

[outoforder]

idk just that masons wouldnt be the first place my brain goes to if someone yells dont yeet that dude

It's hilarious though you bring this up since i have saved you from D1 lynch claiming mason with you when we were not actually even masons.

[outoforder]

LOOOOL that was so fucking long ago I cant believe you remember it

I remember everything

[outoforder]

I guess if I’m wrong on a town read in these three I think OoO is the most likely to be wrong?

he does say this right before but otherwise you are in his firmly town section in the reads list that he posted a while before this whole thing happened.
idk just that masons wouldnt be the first place my brain goes to if someone yells dont yeet that dude

It's actually a bit weird he says this:

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

I guess if I’m wrong on a town read in these three I think OoO is the most likely to be wrong?

I feel increasingly solid about Ninja as town

I mean, he has just expressed suspicion towards Vivax.
Why does he care about who Vivax scumreads? Or like "if one of these three NEEDS to be mafia THEN it's this guy". Seems a bit out of place how to talk to your scumread.

[outoforder]

Gotta go to work. I would appreciate if you, Dunnstral could link to your latest town and mafia game so i can read them after i get back home.

[outoforder]

I mean i can find them myself later also, but it's very hard for me to navigate this forum.

[outoforder]

It's because you use "does anyone think XYZ..." before committing to a read or opinion. It's like you're trying to seek confirmation from other people before actually raising your opinion.

[outoforder]

To Ninja..

[outoforder]

Well yeah that too what Oats said.

[outoforder]

I'm asking if I have actually done this, or if he is fabricating this case.

If I've done this, I want to see an actual, concrete, quoted example of me doing so.

you did it for instance when you were voting for me but already telling basically youre gonna vote for gob.

[outoforder]

[...]
I'm leaving my vote on OutOfOrder for now because I want to see my actions through on that one, but I'm fully in favor of a vote against Gob after all this.

[outoforder]

I mean like, you don't need to bother explaining what you actually meant if you meant something else, but Dann's interpretation of that is not unreasonable at all.

[outoforder]

Grack are you around in about 3hrs or so?

[outoforder]

Vivax, are YOU around in ~3hrs?

[outoforder]

Okay, i get off work around that time. I am going to consider you confirmed town for the time being. Let's go through players and share thoughts. I know your opinion is valuable in case you are town. After that you can think whatever you think of me and vice versa.

[outoforder]

Alright i am here now. Gotta put on laundry real quick, gotta earn my beer and cozy fireplace on play mafia listen to all in flames records time ^^

[outoforder]

Vivax who do we do first?

[outoforder]

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

[outoforder]

I wouldnt put aside Roden + Luca, but for real Oats is definitely my top top top townread. I am very very good at reading Oats, i don't think eight or so years between games change that much.

Like i am alsmost certain Oats is town.

[outoforder]

Did Luca actually vote Roden or what did he do?

[outoforder]

Hmm Roden, tell me more about your thoughts on Oatsmaster and SuperNinja.

Also, do you not want to go Vivax today?

I don't have much more to say about those two

Correct, I don't want to vote Vivax. He's a strong player who shrouds himself under the guise of "lol random" humor. I think it's really easy to want to vote him for being different, and I remember last time I rolled scum against him our team was trying to make him lim bait, but he actually ended up with some of the more accurate reads of the town. So I'm currently just paying attention to what he says and giving him time to cook.

well he is saying youre scum so what gives?

[outoforder]

Since 12 minutes ago.

[outoforder]

VOTE: Luca

[outoforder]

If there is anything Vivax' play

isn't

, it's people bullying him into a read. Just sayin

[outoforder]

Or like letting people bully him into a read.

Who is bullying Vivax into scumreading you and how?

[outoforder]

Why did you scumread me Roden?

[outoforder]

Or like letting people bully him into a read.

Who is bullying Vivax into scumreading you and how?

Is this an actually serious question or are you not paying attention to the people who've been screaming my name for 40+ pages

Scumreading you != bullying Vivax into scumreading you.
This game is not all about what Vivax does.

[outoforder]

What in my interactions were scummy?

[outoforder]

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Did someone do this? Did they also scumread me because i also thought Roden was town and i have definitely not accused you of that read.

[outoforder]

What were you doing with your "random" vote if not trying to fish an unexpected reaction from Vivax?
Why was Luca super townie with his 2 or so posts? Because other people said so too?

[outoforder]

Like if you voted me in RVS -- and i responded with "why are you voting for me???", how would you react?

[outoforder]

If someone genuinely didn't know what RVS was then I'd explain it to them and wouldn't hold that reaction against them, since my vote would look insane otherwise

Im sorry but you dont really seem to know whta RVS is, or stands for

It's okay, i dont have anything to add to this discussion so you can talk with Vivax.

[outoforder]

Vivax do you think Luca and Roden would build that scheme of the stupid read/no-read based on Roden's defensiveness, aggressiveness and whatever, if they were scumbuddies?

[outoforder]

I'm up to page 31 atm so I don't know if Luca suddenly got scummy or not. If there's a case I'll eventually see it and make up my mind then.

Maybe it's better if you stop resoponding and catch up. I think it's better for everyone regardless of your affiliation.

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: Luca

[outoforder]

For D1 I‘d accept in my voting bloc without necessarily townreading them: OoO, Ninja, Dann, DP, Grack, Oats

I am pretty sure there is one mafia there, and unfortunately that is either Grack or DP.

[outoforder]

VOTE: Luca

[outoforder]

For D1 I‘d accept in my voting bloc without necessarily townreading them: OoO, Ninja, Dann, DP, Grack, Oats

I am pretty sure there is one mafia there, and unfortunately that is either Grack or DP.

Either Grack wants me to scumread you and that's why he didn't comment on the meta post,
or DP is scum for what you said, not trying to take thread control.

It's not bad assessment.

[outoforder]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

Order, how are you going to try to argue that no one was trying to force Vivax's hand when you literally tried to pit us against each other here?

I thought both of you are mafia. It's just that simple. It's not some clever scum strategy to try to Vivax vote for you.

[outoforder]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

Future me, does Naerys ever actually do anything?

Take issue with it and gather votes then.
Pretend to be in the voting bloc. You don‘t necessarily have to be sure she‘s mafia to gather votes and force posting.

Or Dunn for that matter. Dunn is firmly in null territory, though he irked my gut for no reason. He doesn‘t attempt to play in the mud. Voting nulls would be what we need to complete the D1 picture.

Most issue i take with Dunn is that he seems to be more willing to comment on what other people mean than what he himself thinks....

Naerys i don't remember anything about anymore. For some reason i thought she is not likely mafia at some point, but honestly i have forgotten why.

[outoforder]

gob is like slam just more coherent and incoherent at the same time lol.
i love having him around just for posts like this:

I'll catch up on what I missed in like 2 hours or so

nobody cares

I laughed my ass off yesterday when i read this

[outoforder]

Ngl it's really feeling like people don't actually scum read me and are just mad I attacked their off site buddy, and then got so loud about it for 40+ pages that other people just eventually followed suit

Pretty disingenuous reading of the situation

I'm going to agree with this.

[outoforder]

Now I'm sure OoO is rayn so it can be him even.

wow it took absurd amount of time tbh ^^

[outoforder]

Considering he w´got almost yeeted and didn't play more I think he's town tbh. Just that the mafia were kinda apathetic or fearful to hammer him. Still don't like him and would suggest a vig on him.

i agree. i liked him when i actually talked with him.

[outoforder]

But Vivax you have to realise Oats is town, and vice versa...
We're not gonna beat the dude who is mafia between Grack / DP, or even both otherwise.

Theyre both too reasonable to be lynched if were not here to see through it.

[outoforder]

DP never even considered my case on Luca has any merit, DP (and marv) always consider if my case has merit.

[outoforder]

Can you tell me with confidence you dont think there is no mafia in Grack and DP? (not that i am wanting to lynch them D1)

[outoforder]

*you think there is no mafia..

[outoforder]

It's a legitmate question Dann. And that is not a legitmate answer, at least it doesn't give anyone anything.
You know how expressing your reads work, right?

[outoforder]

Can you tell me with confidence you dont think there is no mafia in Grack and DP? (not that i am wanting to lynch them D1)

I am reasonably confident Grack is town. As mafia it‘d have been more convenient for him to add to the pool of players suspecting me.

He went for an approach that made him harder for hin to vote me if the opportunity arised.
My own alignment is my most trustworthy piece of information, and I just felt that he gets me.

DP is another matter. Having me D1d several games in a row would at best make him heartless as town and at worst mafia, so standing up for me was NAI.

I already know he’s not heartless from his EoD on TL’s last game when he last-minute-discerned my alignment correctly. But he will yeet you if you don’t meet effort expectations.

For me he’s not a D1 lim anyway because I know he can just solve it later if he’s town.

All of this to say that I’m not going to vote him on D1 no matter what. Strong players are self-resolving no matter their alignment,

I dont think i am ever confident enough to yeet DP D1, no matter what. So yeah i agree there.
I disagree with Grack though, if he is mafia there are reasons to not push you (and discredit for instance me for thinking youre mafia) even if he cant yeet me. I mean at the state of the game was. Hell he can even think agreeing eith you on Luca as them being scumbuddies is okay since thread consensus is "Luca = super town".
We'll see though, if he follows up on what is supposed to be in his head.

[outoforder]

Vivax, on Grack; Like we even figured out he is a baddie last time we were MAFIA together....

[outoforder]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

It's just random

The more i look at this, this whole scene here looks very unnatural and sketchy.

Random voting stage stands for this; You place a vote on someone hoping it would spark a reaction that is unexpected from them as town.

Now from Roden's side:
- There is a reason Roden voted for Vivax. the vote is not random. I don't care what the reason is, but there is a reason why he chose Vivax from all the players. Now Vivax responds with "why the vote?", which is (or can be considered) an unexpected reaction to a seemingly random vote. As i put it, "why so scared Vivax?"

From Vivax' side:
- I don't find it completely unreasonable to ask "why the vote". However, Vivax fairly well knows what RVS stands for and should not be interested in the vote at all unless he is either thinking there's some suspicious activity behind the vote (why Roden chose him of all the players), or trying to counter-bait a reaction from Roden (which should be expected with the "scummy" answer -- "why the vote?").

Instead of anything happening, fucking nothing at all happens with here, while both players have reasonable reasons to push this further. If not to find mafia, at least start the discussion about something relevant. I find this very likely to be S/S interaction.

After our recent conversation, I'm realizing that half this player list is running into culture shock with the other half and the friction just leads into scum reading over disagreements

This game is unfortunately just going to be harder than usual due to having to parse what is just friction and what is actually scummy

Fortunately though we have like million days of D1 to figure out that shit you just pointed out.

[outoforder]

How about DP and Dann kiss and make up (***) and vote Luca?

[outoforder]

This Dann vs DP thing has good odds of just being TvT for the same reason I wanted to have a quarrel with Dann earlier.

What was that reason?

[outoforder]

How about DP and Dann kiss and make up (***) and vote Luca?

why is Luca your most confident scum read?

Are you asking ME that, out of everyone??

[outoforder]

Look, I've laid out over the last couple pages why I think DP is approaching the game with a scum mindset. Generally, I don't think he cares about detecting alignment, I think he cares about looking good and making sure others in the game look bad.

If everyone looks at that and decides it has no merit or doesn't apply to DP, whatever. I'll just sheep my town reads and compromise.

But I believe in this read a lot so I would appreciate at least some consideration of it rather than a *shrug* and telling me DP will self resolve.

I am considering, at least.

[outoforder]

yes i'd like to hear your own words on it

He is not really having opinions. He's very good at arguing, i give him that. But like the whole thing i accused him of, and his scumread of Roden, im very conflicted still, form that exchange between us i dont really know why he scumreads Roden... It's very weird. It's like he has a reasonable response to everything but when you put all that together it leads to pretty much nothing, if that makes any sense.

[outoforder]

yes i'd like to hear your own words on it

He is not really having opinions. He's very good at arguing, i give him that. But like the whole thing i accused him of, and his scumread of Roden, im very conflicted still, form that exchange between us i dont really know why he scumreads Roden... It's very weird. It's like he has a reasonable response to everything but when you put all that together it leads to pretty much nothing, if that makes any sense.

How can you not know why I scumread Roden when I literally explained it to you over several posts?

And if you didn't understand why not ask for further clarification instead of shading me for it days later? I note this is the second time you've done this to me now.

I know "why" you scumread him, it just doesnt make any sense to me in the context of the thread.
I gave you room to do stuff. You did no much stuff imo.

[outoforder]

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

I fail to realise, if you have 9 town reads, what's so hard in this game?
Of if you don't believe your reads, why -- after this -- you don't do anything about it?

[outoforder]

I know i am town so the only reason Ninja says that as mafia is if she is mafia with Luca so i dont care atm.

[outoforder]

I know i am town so

the only reason Ninja says that as mafia is if she is mafia with Luca

so i dont care atm.

Why?

Because she is too self-concious to do it otherwise as she knows she has better avenues to pursue. I know this is one of the reasons why Vivax thought i am mafia, but it's true. Her MO just says this is a no-no unless grouping a town and mafia, otherwise it doesn't make sense. If town, she is not so self-concious after all as she has made a lot of mistakes like that.

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

DP what's your excuse of not commenting on this post?
Same goes for Grack.

[outoforder]

Isnt it funny mafia is shitting their pants after we formed a two man town circle?

[outoforder]

Just out of (order) nowhere

[outoforder]

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

You are not really getting this. She is saying that you are indicating you have a strong opinion with your language, and that is part of her argument. She is not reading into your state of mind.

Is that alignment indicative in any way for Ninja or Roden or why are you keeping it this brief ?

One could think you are moderating this game instead of playing it.

In fact your behaviour suggests you don‘t mind being yeeted.

Most issue i take with Dunn is that he seems to be more willing to comment on what other people mean than what he himself thinks....

[outoforder]

Had a few instances of abandoning grudges and then being proven that the other side could never change though.

Im sorry to hear that.

[outoforder]

out of topic; Fuck, Clayman is a boss album...

[outoforder]

I comment on what I find interesting and correcting incorrect assumptions is interesting to me. I'm not likely to change the way I play.

Maybe i will get to that tomorrow when i read your past games.
rn this thing with vivax is faaaaaar more interesting to me. you can chime in if you'd like!

[outoforder]

This Dann vs DP thing has good odds of just being TvT for the same reason I wanted to have a quarrel with Dann earlier.

What was that reason?

Being antagonistic because someone saw their status challenged.

Dann is supposed to be something like a personal champion of the site I think.

Maybe the fact DP could outshine him in the long term wants him to shut DP down.
It‘s kinda townie, but won‘t be helpful. Every duck measuring contest on TL ended up being tvt.

I don't think Dann has that much ego to do that.

so you think dann as mafia would not challenge town!DP?

[outoforder]

So which is right Hu Tao / Dunn?

[outoforder]

I have to say, Vivax

When i was reading the thread at work, your post #1110 almost made me throw my tools and shit and i was ready to murder you on spot, but then you made #1112. Then i thought "sheeet maybe it's town!Vivax after all, why not do this instead".

It really secured me when you asked Roden to vote for Luca. I had absolutely no idea what you were doing but i knew there was something there, that's my ultimate Vivax!tell.

[outoforder]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

Vivax is very fucking town.

[outoforder]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

Vivax is very fucking town.

Seems like you just defend your town reads, am I right? Who do you Town read more Dunn or Vivax

Vivax.
Why would i not defend my townreads? Is there something scummy in doing so?

[outoforder]

I could probably kill naerys - not super satisfying but I didn't love 1077 hedging on roden

how does he go here? i dont get this...

[outoforder]

The main thing I'm bothered about by Luca is that he hasn't really pushed anything himself and doesn't have any strong scum reads outside of the consensus Roden

into...

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

into, lets vote for Naerys.

[outoforder]

"there is this wagon on luca i have placed interest in, i am voting for DP.
DP isnt happening so lets vote for naerys because she is hedging on roden"????????????????

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

DP what's your excuse of not commenting on this post?
Same goes for Grack.

What did you want me to say?

I noted it for later and was more interested in something else that I was filter diving at the time.

I am sorry but for both you and Grack i think this should have been the most interesting thing 2024, for mine and Vivax' alignment, so don't bother if i have reservations against you because of it.

[outoforder]

The main thing I'm bothered about by Luca is that he hasn't really pushed anything himself and doesn't have any strong scum reads outside of the consensus Roden

into...

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

into, lets vote for Naerys.

Vivax look at this, it doesnt make any sense

[outoforder]

I kinda just want to end day 1 already. It feels like ot could drag on for awhile unless we come to a reasonable compromise

Dont do that. More time = more chances for town to find mafia. We at TL play 48/24 phases, i dont remember a game where by D3 we dont lynch mafia.
Basically this D1 is half past D4 so...

Impossible to NOT find mafia on D1 if townies keep on interest in the game.

[outoforder]

Dann is very very likely to be mafia.

[outoforder]

Dann is very very likely to be mafia.

So do you think it's luca/dann/???

yeah, could still be roden. or grack for instance.

[outoforder]

It can still be grack, just agreeing with you on luca thinking noone else will buy it.
It came out of nowhere when he was scumreading me and townreading Luca.

[outoforder]

VOTE: roden

I’m still not convinced by the Luca stuff.

Why does mafia not want to vote for him?

[outoforder]

Like Oats, if you think Roden is mafia and Luca is town, why does Roden just not vote for Luca when vivax gives him a 100% out?

[outoforder]

We flip whoever we think is the best, were still like half way through D1 only lol ^^

[outoforder]

respect the million days D1 Oats

[outoforder]

I dont think it means anything outside TL, they tend to do stupid things like that.

[outoforder]

What's your opinion on grack?