Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

I am a skeleton with below average standards, and I am sure you will all meet those standards! So I'd like at the very least to spare 2 players by the end of day 4, and preferably spare 4.
Finding friends is so much easier than finding enemies!

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

Silly Human! Flavour is completely NAI!

Other Silly Human! Friendship is a given, but being HEALED is as privileged as joining the Royal Guard!

All members of my faction that are known to me and I to them, VOTE: VOTE: The Scum and win the game.

[Hectic]

Actuallly, I'd like to take that vote back, moderator. It's only fair if The Scum get some time to play too!

[Hectic]

Oh I’m sorry would you like me to link the 9 other games I’m playing right now?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

HURT: Hectic
HEAL: Sherlock

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

HEAL: Billy


HURT: Sherlock

[Hectic]

if y'all try to incite one more time paradox I swear

[Hectic]

Also, townpoints to the first person who guesses my flavor!

[Hectic]

who are you talking to? there aren't any humans here.

also, i like the detective more than Billy. but you're already friends with Billy, aren't you?

i'm feeling a little down but the flower scares me...
sorry... i'm not sure why i'm telling you this i don't even know you...
sorry... i just made this more awkward i'm going to fly away now and come back later...

ok i'm back... papyrus says he liked Billy pointing out Chemist's towny entrance...
the flower said he didn't like Sherlock's comments on townhunting vs scumhunting... but it doesn't make him scum... it's just a weird take...
bye...

[Hectic]

you really need to stop dropping your letters of correspondence to Watson. I think just about everyone here has a read of them. It's

kill or be killed

, so careful what you write in there.

Secondly, I disliked your take on the townhunting vs scumhunting because it ignores the fact that it's easier to townhunt for several reasons more than because "there's more town in the game than Moriarty's henchman." Town players can act scummy a lot of the time. It's harder for a mafia player to act very naturally towny, and that's the people we're SPARING - which we only need 4 of. We also have a Friendly Neighbour. I'm looking forward to sending them some

friendliness pellets

.

So

, like I said, it doesn't

necessarily

make you scum, but the reasons you gave for disregarding SPARING as superior seem

shallow

.

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

I realised the mad fellow had possibly misunderstood my words, Watson. He had believed that I was suggesting that we should not attempt to secure ourselves by being sure of our comrades, when I was simply taking issue with the regular and erroneous self-perception that some people have that they are better at tracking who are not agents of Moriarty than hunting down those who are.

Perhaps the gentleman was more lucid than I previously believed...

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

it sounded more like Billy was saying Chemist's entrance gave reason for him to be... unfriendly, rather than towny. i am curious about where the thought that Chemist normally makes a scummy entrance comes from.

of course it's weird that the detective isn't as excited about making friends. who wouldn't be? but encouraging those who are claiming their prowess at townhunting to really prove it doesn't seem a bad idea to me.

hi...
papyrus tells me he misunderstood Billy's intention by pointing it out... but he still likes Billy noticing it in the first place...
the flower told me he didn't like the detective pointing out something that should be obvious... but his latest letter of correspondence tells him he is challenging people to show they are better at finding friends... which is okay...
who do you think we should be fighting... the

KING

is asking...

[Hectic]

Hey everyone!

[Hectic]

If you are referring to my character, no. I am not a rock.

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

he's watering his flower garden... i think he doesn't want us to fight...
i won't tell him about Billy... i don't want to get involved in anything...
hide and seek will be fun... the other kids should join in too...
i'm hiding...

[Hectic]

Stop stealing my identity. I know you wish you had hair as lush as mine but this is too far.

[Hectic]

Where are the knives?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

i did also read the setup and my personal goal is to lynch scum D1 and then spare three townies from the towncore fallout and force mafia to kill themselves.

because that would be friggin' sweet.

Golly, this is a bold plan to put forth. My master recently played a game where he had to lynch town, and mafia needed to get themselves lynched to win. They managed to lynch town for first 5 days, and he found townhunting much easier than scumhunting. However, you make a good point that we get no confirmation in this game about those we SPARE being town or mafia. In that game, scum had reason to lynch town to build up towncred, in this they don't.
I now believe the best strategy is to adapt based on how strong your reads are. Is there an obvtown floating around? SPARE them. Is there someone you're confident is scum? FIGHT them.

[Hectic]

HEAL: Chemist

[Hectic]

Sorry, how is Sujimichi trying to blend in? He's barely posted

A) I mean, that’s pretty much what a lot of scum do - post only as much as necessary.

B) the tonality of his post is very awkward and buddying of nacho who is obviously one of the stronger players in the game, especially at that juncture.

Tell me

, why do you see his townread of Nacho as buddying rather than genuine? Do you

disagree

with it?

[Hectic]

I would posit that you view me as easy lynch material and so are fabricating a reason to push me.

HURT: Amrun

Human! Why do you think Amrun views you as easy lynch material? Or do you view yourself as easy lynch material?!

[Hectic]

I don’t disagree with it.

[Hectic]

Hectic. What is your view on my thoughts surrounding the Friendly Neighbor role?

hey pal.
i've been giving what you said some thought.
and honestly?
i don't see any fault in it. all waiting a day does is give those losers a chance to kill them before we get a free SPARE.
see it as starting the game tomorrow. all that'll happen is we're one guaranteed SPARE up and one town player down.
and it's not like we can't discuss today anyway.
the loser lynching can happen tomorrow, we want to SPARE the friendly neighbour at some point anyway, so best to get it done now before there's any risk.
thoughts pal?

[Hectic]

do all talking flowers sound this suspicious? or, it might just be that gleeful look on your face...

what answer are you hoping to find by asking this question you already know the answer to?

Seems

I glossed over what "especially at this juncture" actually means; that is a valid reason after all.

[Hectic]

who's

an idiot?

[Hectic]

i'm still curious about what you were looking for with your leading.

Even

I

couldn't help but feel swayed by Nacho's words, and it would

surprise

me if others aren't townreading him too. So Amrun jumping to the conclusion of buddying when the townread is probably justified

jumped

out at me.

[Hectic]

Watson, allow me quote more directly some of the exchanges that I had upon the adventure:

Alimdia, my fine fellow. I must admit, I find it hard to believe that a gentleman of such upstanding quality as yourself is struggling to comprehend well that which I have written. However, I find it more intriguing still that you choose to hound a question that is quite clearly meaningless. Why should it matter if I accompanied my the good gentleman JTheophrastus Bartholomew or not? This feels rather like an attempt to imitate the search for Moriarty’s minions rather than partaking of the real thing. I also dislike that your seeming focus on this allows you to avoid looking for Moriarty’s minions elsewhere. In fact:

HURT: Alimdia

Although the good gentleman Pine’s lack of presence here is a little disturbing, I have it on good recommendation that the chap prefers working for Moriarty than working against him. As such, I’m taking his limited engagement thus far to be relatively indicative of him being a good sort this game. That said, it is mildly concerning that his inactivity has continued since Nachomamma8’s presence has spiked upward, given that he professed a strong wish to play with him.

But...

why

do you think Alimdia is wrong in his criticism? Though I admire the retaliation, I don't understand it.

My initial impressions of the fancy named fellow were that he liked me, a sentiment that I returned. In fact, it was sufficient for me to go along with him a little:

HURT: hectic

Here, you say you go along with Mew because you like him and he likes you, leading you to vote our master.

HURT: Hectic
HEAL: Sherlock

However

, this is the

only

post Mew has made by that point.

How

can you like him off this, and why do you like the fact he likes you?

[Hectic]

hectic, is that why you initially voted to fight Sherlock?

I only noticed

this

detail now.

Also to anyone who wants to spare D1 and is voting to fight, or vice versa, why?

I have an idea but I want to see what the rest of y’all are thinking

he's gone.
listen pal, i know the flower's gonna continue to find those losers and i don't mind it.
but y'know, at the end of the day?
just ask my bro and he'll tell ya: it's definitely optimal to SPARE the confirmed neighbour.
now... if a blatantly obvious scum comes along, you might be thinking, shouldn't we lynch them?
nah.
we lynch them the next day and don't take the chance of getting our friendliest of neighbours killed over night.
but for now? we can hunt for those losers to make our decision easier and better informed tomorrow.

[Hectic]

the analogy and reasons you gave make so much sense...
you have a way with words...
ignore what the skeleton said earlier about friendly neighbour claiming even he's changed his mind...
bye...

[Hectic]

Poor meta work by town is so common as to be null,

My master was a Town Jailkeeper in that game you've linked there. You really ARE an idiot, aren't you?


"Most Manipulative" despite being town.
so i can see why he'd come to that conclusion if he did a quick ISO of the mod.
replica pal, don't take the flower's words to heart.
y'know, for the record, i think you're right and Hectic would probably pull a gimmick as scum too.
here's his sole scum game if you're interested: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81804
anyway, i want to know more about you pal.
what do ya think of Asriel's "awkward" posting so far?
or the detective's attack on alim in 258?

[Hectic]

why PINE has been so disengaged and prodgy this game, especially considering he seemed

so

excited to play with Nacho earlier.

HEAL: Chara

HURT: chemist

This is the only content he's posted so far. Everything else has been fluff/VLA status updates. Upon his return, I would

love

to hear his reasoning on these votes, and who he thinks the best SPARE/FIGHT is

right now

.

The detective is an

interesting

one. Upon reevaluation of 41, I get the impression his vote and comment on Mew was part of RVS, given how the post also contains parts like "The tiger seemed mostly distracted, and I decided that, in order as not to risk life and limb, to wait for it to have eaten and reached contentedness with what was going on before engaging it." Since then, I've seen Moriartyhunting through his posts, including 207, where he attacks Alimdia. Given in the detective's mind, his vote and "sheep" had simply been a meaningless RVS one, I can understand why he'd find criticism of it as Moriarty-working-for-indicative. And WHY would he pass up an opportunity like that?

Alimdia's thoughts recently have been very good however, and I find myself agreeing with many of them.

Chemist recently has

lacked

the goodness in his posts the idiot skeleton saw in him early on. Do you still like your SPARE on Asriel?

[Hectic]

reply to the snowdrake shows he has real good reasons for wanting to SPARE the friendly neighbour today.
his loserhunting is good.
like his retort to Amrun or reconsidering his townread on Nacho when he doubted his risk assessment.
his heart lies in the right place.
if we don't SPARE the Dog, we SPARE this guy.
or even if we do, consider him for tomorrow.
HEAL: Hectic
for now.

[Hectic]

HURT: Pine

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

Sparing Hectic probably works because if he's scum then we kinda deserve the loss

I didn't get the impression you townread Hectic from these posts:

Hectic

You seem to have avoided picking a side as well, other than your heal on Chemist.
By the way, I'm not sure if its alignment specific, but it's really hard to find stuff you said when they are all pictures (rip ctrl-F)
Pray tell me, what do you think of Sherlock's retaliation.
I assume your vote on Sherlock from page 43 is not relevant to his retaliation on me, but rather his stances of townhunting as you said?

I'm actually thinking for the people that are actively posting, we need to pressure Chara, Chemist to give their reads. To a lesser extent, Hectic and Nacho too.

What changed?

@Chemist: Does Asriel's inactivity not concern you; is one moment of awkwardness

really

enough to warrant a townread there?

Did something interesting happen?

What's your take on this post?

[Hectic]

Before I heal Hectic, should he claim Friendly Neighbor or not? I do not think it’s necessary, but I remember it being brought up previously.

we don't want to give any chance for them to claim FN without a CC if they suspect the FN was SPARED without claiming.
y'know, especially if no one we SPARE claims.

[Hectic]

Then could you claim? I believe you are one Heal away from being Spared.

[Hectic]

Are you ready for me to Spare you?

[Hectic]

Are you ready for me to Spare you?

[Hectic]

there's the style to the posting (something that i believe is inherent to Replica, which is not AI in and of itself) first of all, which rings honest. i'm not explaining it well but i think it's something that's really difficult to fake, the way that Replica has essentially introduced themself and their methodology and then proceeded to apply it in a way that does not seem performative.
i kind of don't want to know who they are but i can't help wondering anyway.

you there.
they've been consistently open-minded and transparent.
only weird thing is i didn't agree with either of the assessments in 275.
the first looks like a fluff post not relevant to alignment.
the second is something others also expressed in-thread.
many didn't realise that SPARING means no flips = no information.
but then their thoughts on Asriel or Sherlock in 296 are very reasonable.
and this is similar across their ISO like in their interactions with Nacho.
willing to SPARE this pal too.

[Hectic]

The IDIOT skeleton liked him early because he seemed natural/genuine, and liked how he pointed out Asriel's

awkwardness

. But recently, he's felt a lot less engaged, and I don't understand keeping a SPARE vote on Asriel.

I’m not 100% on my Asriel spare, never was, but he hasn’t done anything to make him strongly trend down

I haven’t been that around tbh but you’re probably the only person I would consider moving my spare to

@Rep
I switched to Asriel from Hectic because I wanted do be doing something new with my vote

Really I don’t remember having a reason but it was probably something like that

Asriel's ISO to me is like

town null null null null etc.

really the only thing is towny tone and him having nothing against him

@Chemist: Howdy! If you're not 100% on your Asriel SPARE, does lurking and prodging not trend him down? If you wanted something new to do with your vote, why is locking it on Asriel useful, especially since Asriel disappeared?

[Hectic]

napstablook here...
here's some random thoughts from my phone...
really regret telling Sujimichi not to hammer earlier...
realise now that we should've let the SPARE happen rather than risk it falling apart... oh well...
replica and sherlock both feel like town...
chara i'm having doubts on after looking through her ISO...
she parked a SPARE on us while not really giving us the impression she townread us with the way she asked us questions/talked about us and questioned Nacho's read...
and the timing of her SPARE vote change after alimdia said he would hammer soon feels like she would rather have someone be (mis)lynched instead...
alimdia also feels slightly off but then we saw his flurry of posts for his reads list were minutes apart...
think it's really hard to fake those so quickly unless he prepared the posts beforehand which is unlikely...
we still like sujimichi he feels very honest...
we're more confident in SPARING over FIGHTING overall...
sherlock or sujimichi are both fine we think...
replica as the third option...
@popsofctown: our FIGHT vote should be on Psyche we believe

[Hectic]

not really feeling up to this but i checked farkran...
like him as well so wouldn't FIGHT there today...
agree with some of his recent thoughts...
only person am semi confident in fighting is chara for now...
will leave it as an option but would still prefer to SPARE...
psyche slot is nullscum...
HURT: Chara

[Hectic]

Chara is the best out of the four, mostly because of how he picked up my request for a recap, but i do want to hear more.

really...
i don't really get why would this be town-indicative... that's a relatively easy way for scum to look helpful without putting themselves at risk... so i wouldn't call it AI...
i wish i'd asked Sujimichi to hammer because from my perspective i know i'm town and it's an optimal play...
it's similar to what people were saying earlier where town should always self-hammer if put on L-1...
but i did want to wait for replacements and the activity has been good so it's not all bad...
it's the nature of Chara's interactions with me through the game...
she kept giving me the impression she wasn't townreading me with some of the questions she asked me or things she said...
so keeping her SPARE vote on me the whole time is strange...
though i guess one possibility is she wanted to be sure i was town if she's going to SPARE me and is why she was acting like that which would make sense...

[Hectic]

i had a look through his loser game and it seems like he spams a lot of useful looking questions without giving much analysis of his own while he's a loser.
not in this game though.
he's given detailed thoughts and analysis - like in his interactions with Nacho - and his questions have been more pointed.
he's a real pal.

[Hectic]

Nacho hasn’t done anything scummy in my eyes. All the “cases” on him seem nebulous and some of them seem opportunistic.

I’m not so overly sure he’s town but I think lynching him because he has a high reputation and has had a V/LA in the middle of the phase making it difficult for him to engage is ridiculous.

He’s a townread but the fisticuffs is about the annoyance of lynching day 1 the best player in the game for shit reasons. I joined to play with him. Idk Undertale and couldn’t care less. I just wanted to play with Nacho.

town for me, but i don't see anything he's done as loserish.
in fact, i was a little paranoid when he first locked us as town.
but he's obviously very experienced so maybe he's just that good that he can instantly tell someone's town based on style of posting alone.
and loser!Nacho coming in to push through a SPARE on town day 1 seems like an odd strategy, dontcha think?
unless he thinks it gives him significant towncred but that doesn't really work without flips for SPAREs.
hell if i know.
welp, i see that you and my old pal Sujimichi have had a lot to talk about while i was gone.
i'll get to that tonight.

[Hectic]

How much history do you have with nacho, Hectic? Have you ever caught him as scum before?

[Hectic]

Spaghetti

[Hectic]

I don't care whether it breaks the rules or not, the quote speaks to a state of mind that leaves me all but certain you hadn't recently received a scum role pm elsewhere. I can hardly imagine anyone sincerely doubting you're town here.

but you may want to drop that reasoning.
unless you wanna have a bad time.
courtesy of pops of course.

[Hectic]

Most recent votecount: Dream

Last night, I finished the "fourth*" route: True Pacifism performed on a save file that has previously been used to perform Genocide. Now I actually feel qualified to moderate.

I used the ending portion as an opportunity to view/interact with the flavor claims in this game as much as I could! The only player totally left out was

_____Hectic_______________

.

Also, I discovered an unintended way to softlock the game by talking to Asgore and walking between him and the wall before he can return to his default posture. I could not repeat it, so it must require precise timing. Be amazed.

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

hi...
Replica, do you mean you don't vote because you don't want to start FIGHT wagons...
because you want to SPARE instead...?
or because you're not confident in your reads and are afraid of misleading the town...?

[Hectic]

HURT: unvote
i may have been wrong about Chara...
but i am a little suspicious...
i'm still hiding from her after we started playing hide and seek and she still hasn't found me...
maybe scum-indicative...?

[Hectic]

While you are here as an IC, suji, could you lay out your reasons why you picked exactly those two for your lynchpool?

hey...
what do you mean by IC...?
did he claim FN...?

[Hectic]

I think I’m ready to put what I think was a suji townslip too

at the end, why did you decide to out the townslip after initially not wanting to mention it...?
what changed your mind...?

[Hectic]

okay... i got the impression you were still chasing FIGHTS today...
why not SPARE Sujimichi...?

[Hectic]

Sujimichi... can you cook spaghetti...?
someone wants to know...

[Hectic]

Sujimichi... can you cook spaghetti...?
someone wants to know...

I made spaghetti arrabbiata on Tuesday. I thought it was quite delicious.

HEAL: Sujimichi

[Hectic]

floating in again...
Farkran... you're treating Sujimichi like an IC... but still saying you would rather FIGHT and would have to compromise to SPARE him...
why...?

[Hectic]

Farkran... why are you ignoring me...?
you said Sujimichi is naught but an IC to you...
if you are so confident on him... then why are you FIGHTING people rather than SPARING him...?

i think scum!Farkran could've possibly went overboard when describing Sujimichi earlier... and now he's ignoring me because he can't explain why he'd FIGHT over SPARING someone he considers an IC...
784
bye...

[Hectic]

On re-evaluation, my stances have changed somewhat. If we are Fighting today, I would like to Fight Farkran or Amrun. If we are Sparing, I would like to Spare myself. I have decided I do not want to Spare anyone else. I believe I prefer Fighting my two preferred Fights over Sparing today, but I prefer Sparing over Fighting anyone else.

HURT: Amrun

Thanks. I fully support the fighting resolution, although neither of your suggested targets are my best guesses at this point. I kinda want replica now.

While you are here as an IC, suji, could you lay out your reasons why you picked exactly those two for your lynchpool?

in fact... you worded it like he's an IC who's gonna be SPARED/nightkilled...
why do you ever FIGHT someone over SPARING if you think that...?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

Though I would LOVE to show some of the people here the TRUE nature of this world, we have a wealth of information from yesterday to push home 3 more SPAREs on town. Ugh.
Replica and Chara are good places to start. Chara's late posting yesterday was very townie, and I'm particularly townreading her for how she townread us due to her logic of us "being annoyed at telling Sujimichi to not hammer and openly admitting that", it feels like one of the more genuine reasons to townread us I've seen this game.

[Hectic]

the discovery of the Sujimichi "towntell", and I connect with his outrage on others pushing uncertain scumreads over SPARING what they were admitting was a near IC. Psyche, why do you townread Nacho?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

napstablook here...
are you the one who kept knocking on my door...?
...
but now that we've SPARED 1... i think we have to go for all 4...
the bonus of 1 alone looks more like a drawback to me...
and stopping on 3 isn't great because associations won't be as useful with a mafia dead because of the decreased scumhunting this game... and they get to kill 2 players of course...
we go for the win...

[Hectic]

because they change their minds/have progression on each other?
why does me being suspicious of Chara and then warming up to her again towards the end of the day make me a loser with her?
i don't really get it pal.
and then you highlight Chara changing her opinion on me between 380 and 570 where she grows more confident on me.
but that's 200 posts apart and she gives reasons prior for the change so again why is that progression loserish?

[Hectic]

Hectic, do you have any scumreads?

good to see you again pal.
Farkran, Amrun, Alimdia have most potential to be losers.
none of these are confident but Farkran sits comfortably at the top.
but if he's a loser his strategy today is particularly bold to come out and attack most of the townreads of the town.
it's either a desperate strategy by a loser to derail the SPARE train because it's only got town or genuine thoughts of someone who really does just hate SPARING and doesn't get the value.
i think he's a loser at the moment, combined with him calling Sujimichi an IC and then not answering my question until I repeated it 4 times about why he would FIGHT someone's he not confident on over SPARING someone he considers an IC.
also Chemist actually particularly in how i feel his townread on me this game has been more of a "let's townread him because everyone else is" since i haven't see any reasons for it. would love to hear why, Chemist.

[Hectic]

Replica, could I hear why your read on Chara changed from 2nd highest loserread to strong town?
curious to hear your progression on it.

[Hectic]

i think he's a loser at the moment, combined with him calling Sujimichi an IC and then not answering my question until I repeated it 4 times about why he would FIGHT someone's he not confident on over SPARING someone he considers an IC.

And for the record this is an immense misrep, because i answered it in post 829, directly quoting your posts and explicitly saying i was not ignoring you. It feels weird that you didn't notice it if you were so interested in my answer - anyways, my answer was detailed and correct. Plus, i said at least a million times that i do not care about the sparing route at all because fighting 2 scum is always strictly better than sparing 4 town, and any scenario in-between is just a waste of time.

hi...
i know you mentioned it eventually...
i just don't like how many times i had to ask you it to get an answer from you...
regarding your answer... your assessment in wanting to FIGHT 2 scum over trying to SPARE 4 townies doesn't make you scummy...
however, didn't having someone who you didn't know was the FN at the time as an IC slightly tip the scale towards the SPARE route instead...?
it didn't seem to change your opinion at all, despite the SPARE route being a lot easier in theory after that since it should now be seen as SPARING 3 townies rather than 4 after you locktowned Sujimichi from your perspective...
bye...

[Hectic]

Forgive me for the wallpost, but i really suggest that you read it.

I will come back for my analysis of Psyche, Amrun and Chemist later - there's a lot to say there too, slightly weaker reasons but if i am wrong on the first three,

Psyche is almost certainly scum with Hectic.

hi again...
is this just because i townread him in that last post...?
your method here seems a little shallow in that it relies on people townreading each other to simply be scum with each other...
if it's because of my change of opinion on Psyche... i've explained why...
if you disagree with it... please do say why...
bye again...

[Hectic]

i TR Amrun, it's not lock but i've come around on her, particularly in her interactions with Sujimichi. why do you scumread her?

hmm.
i didn't like her giving in to SPARING Sujimichi after she was so vehemently against the concept of SPARING.
but y'know, looking back, that actually came after Sujimichi claimed FN and her defence of Nacho did look very towny.
nevermind pal.
do you agree with my take on Chemist?
i've been reading Sherlock's 452 but i don't get why those questions make him town when he rarely ever follows up on them and i can't see reads that have been formed off of them.
hell if i know.
maybe he's just a close to the chest type of player.

[Hectic]

Hi guys. I’ve played about 20 minutes total of undertale. What’s up?

[Hectic]

I mean, I personally did not like Hectic’s d2 start saying “well we might as well spare now” without reads that seem to make sense with that plan.

hello visitor... welcome to my home...
i currently think Chara and Replica are confident town and Psyche is good town... and i assume i'm a candidate...
and i'm hoping i can find substantial town elsewhere through this day...
Farkran said something earlier about how the maths is bad for SPARING due to 2/9 chance of SPARING mafia here, and then 2/7 next day, and 2/5 that day... added on with mafia pushing to SPARE each other...
but that ignores the fact that the town are working to solve this game and don't have random reads...
there'd be no point of playing mafia if town didn't have an above baseline random chance of lynching scum/finding town with good play...
thanks for visiting...
...
when are you planning on leaving...?

[Hectic]

How would you scumhunt in this game, Hectic? This is a serious question. I am interested in how you arrived to the conclusion that i could be scum, and therefore you'd like to avoid sparing me in your quest for a 4-spared route. Same about Amrun or Almidia, as per post 942.

i wouldn't do anything different from normal while scumhunting... granted it's harder without flips...
i'm not saying we shouldn't scumhunt while going for 4 SPAREs though...
because it's a lot easier for scum to look towny if all they do is townhunt... so scumhunting should still happen even if we're going for 4 SPAREs...
and i think it's good to ask people you consider SPARING who their scumreads are...
my scumread on you is mainly based on your logic involving SPARING vs FIGHTING after Sujimichi was an IC to you...
and the case today which i think has very bad reasons honestly...
though i will say that i have been slightly townreading your town this game... the frustration comes across as genuine sometimes...
especially when you reacted after Sujimichi claimed FN yesterday...
mixed feelings... i'll probably have to reread you from your entrance and clash with Replica yesterday to form a concrete opinion on you...
not looking forward to that endeavour but will do at some point...

[Hectic]

i like your hat...
is that a pichu or pikachu on your shoulder...?
it looks very small for a pikachu...

[Hectic]

HURT: Farkran
will talk about him more tomorrow...

[Hectic]

this is more to represent my scumread than to hope to lynch him right now...
still prefer SPARING 4 but if i get a confident scumread... lynching is also fine...
we'll see if my reread of him gives me that...

[Hectic]

To provide a concrete example, i had to reread Hectic's ISO a couple times before realizing that his progression on Chara was scum indicative. Why did i re-read Hectic specifically and not another player? Because i was skeptical about Hectic behavior during the end of d1, specifically starting from his interactions towards Chara. Then, the d2 post where he promotes a spare on its slot rang another bell to me, that resonated with his previous d1 post where he voted Chara. I went back and checked, and found out that the first fight vote wasn't particularly off tonewise or contentwise - but when Hectic enters d2 promoting a spare on Chara, i asked myself what was the purpose of that. How could it be a genuine scumread? Why would hectic place a pretty much vanity FIGHT vote on Chara for so little reason, when he was strong on his own spare (and ultimately on sparing suji too)? Why does Hectic enter d2 with a preference for the 4-spared route and includes Chara in it, after what happend there? I thought of one possible reason: distancing. And that's the second bell that alarmed me: why isn't Chara AT LEAST a bit paranoid of this, instead introducing itself by healing hectic? Why didn't it ask Hectic for an explanation? That is, because Chara accepted the distance put between them as a good thing. That's what led me to think they are the most plausible scumteam right now. Everything that i can think of right now would match this theory. This does not mean it's 100% correct, but i do want to pursue it, engage more with the people involved (nothing from Chara made me change my mind, though), and possibly get a flip to learn more.

Farkran pal.
why does loser!Chara unvote loser!me yesterday while I'm on L-1 from being SPARED (iirc)?
y'know, what's the purpose of longing out the SPARE on me?
and why does loser!me ask Suji not to hammer?
i wanted to hear from the two replacements so i asked Suji to not hammer.
admittedly, i'm been putting off rereading you and the EoD yesterday because it's a lot, and i mean a lot to go through.
like, the page number this game is relatively short, but the posts are

thick

.
but tomorrow i'll hopefully put some time aside an explain my Chara townread based on her EoD actions, and i'll have another look at you.
hopefully not another broken promise.

[Hectic]

so the reason Chara's posting was town EoD yesterday was because i found myself agreeing with most of what it was saying while it also come off as natural.
and the way they made the flurry of posts when they said someone was calling their posting gold which inspired them to post more, the tone was really towny there.
i liked the progression on Psyche where Chara doubted Pscyhe actually found it so hard to believe that Suji would lie in a different game's PT, but then warmed up to him by pointing out 1079 was really town which i found really towny too.
also it's reason for reading me as town based on my annoyance at not asking Suji to hammer felt very genuine.
but honestly?
a lot of it also comes from them pushing me as a SPARE so much.
i don't see the loser-motivation in it's read there since SPARING me won't give it towncred because of no flip, and once i'm gone, my townread on Chara doesn't matter so will make it harder for it to get SPARED.
it's risky for it as a loser considering the 4 SPARE route with what we know is a town already SPARED, and no guarantee of getting SPARED the next day, unless it's exactly scum with Replica.
it was also pushing me as a SPARE over both Sherlock and Suji in 806 who were widely townread and very probably SPAREs the next day if they weren't SPARED then.
bad idea if they're going for 4 SPAREs as a loser and actually want to get SPARED at some point.
it can only nightkill one of them.
i guess a lot of this only makes sense from my perspective and i can see more now why Chara+Hectic works as a team in Farkran's mind.
but eh.
HEAL: Chara

[Hectic]

I feel like I don't really understand your post Hectic. It seems to boil down to why push to spare you as mafia Chara, especially over Sujimichi/Sherlock. This doesn't really seem convincing to me, given that Chara voted you earlier and was skeptical of the PT post's strength. 180ing isn't a good look at all, and in both 3/4 spare cases you want people whose alignment is in question to get it over strong consensus townreads.

I was happy to see Chara react with more content in response to my "posting gold" comment, but I had also made it clear that responses like that (Successfully getting others engaged) were exactly what I've been hoping to achieve this game. That unfortunately makes the desire very exploitable.

a lot of people were reading Suji and Sherlock both as strong town at that point.
SPARING me means one of those is very likely to get SPARED the next day.
it's not a good plan for loser!Chara who at that point knows all 3 of Hectic, Suji, Sherlock are town.
and doesn't know who the FN is who is another potential free SPARE.

[Hectic]

I feel like I don't really understand your post Hectic. It seems to boil down to why push to spare you as mafia Chara, especially over Sujimichi/Sherlock. This doesn't really seem convincing to me, given that Chara voted you earlier and was skeptical of the PT post's strength. 180ing isn't a good look at all, and in both 3/4 spare cases you want people whose alignment is in question to get it over strong consensus townreads.

I was happy to see Chara react with more content in response to my "posting gold" comment, but I had also made it clear that responses like that (Successfully getting others engaged) were exactly what I've been hoping to achieve this game. That unfortunately makes the desire very exploitable.

a lot of people were reading Suji and Sherlock both as strong town at that point.
SPARING me means one of those is very likely to get SPARED the next day.
it's not a good plan for loser!Chara who at that point knows all 3 of Hectic, Suji, Sherlock are town.
and doesn't know who the FN is who is another potential free SPARE.

I see a lot of problems with this. I think the most obvious is that they get to nightkill, paired again with mafia preferring non-locktown spares to locktown spares (As they will someday reenter the lynch pool in 3/4 spare scenarios)

yeah, so point being one can be nightkilled but not both.
doubt one of Suji/Sherlock don't get SPARED today if either was alive.
i think Chara's been going for 4 SPAREs iirc.

[Hectic]

The amount of self-importance you place behind your opinion of the spares leading to nightkills is misplaced a problem for both actually reading you and for getting others to concur in your reads.

yeah, pal, i know, there's not much point discussing it further but was important to state since Farkran was asking.

[Hectic]

y'know, you're probably right and i'm putting too much stake in that.
that same logic probably extends to a few other players from yesterday now that i think about it.
i'm not really scumreading you anymore.
i can see why you find fault in this read now.

[Hectic]

If I’m not misreading hec’s case it boils down to Hectic is t/t or s/s reading the hec/Chara interactions and knows he’s town via role pm. Is that more or less accurate?

this is it pretty much.
reason i'm emphasising Chara over say Psyche or Chemist from yesterday is because Chara actively tried to push me to be SPARED and convinced others.
while Misty and Psyche said it more as passing opinions.
same goes for today.

[Hectic]

As an aside, did you guys decide you wanted to go 4 spares or just that you wanted to go early spares?

there's not really consensus on it.
half the people want 4 SPAREs and half want to FIGHT.

[Hectic]

sure thing, pal.
tldr:
Nacho townread us very early mainly for our gimmick
Chemist and Chara agreed early iirc
the game was slow early on and i was very active which is part of it i think
i recall Replica thought my progression was good on early reads like Sherlock
that's what i can remember for reasons up to being put on L-1

[Hectic]

i was on L-1 up till a few days before deadline
it wasn't an RVS wagon
the game was slow when Suji offered to hammer but there were a couple of replacements who hadn't spoken yet

[Hectic]

@mod: V/LA until the 10th.

[Hectic]

saying. But what is alarming for me is how he's VERY stubborn in all his beliefs/points. He doesn't concede any points to anyone, and always finds a way to disagree. At first, I thought it made no sense for scum!Farkran to enter DAY 2 attacking 3 townreads, but the more I think about it, the more I think scum!Farkran needs to do this if he doesn't want to take the loss, as all of {Chara, Hectic, Replica} are town. Which were the highest townreads entering day 2.

Farkran, I've always been for 4 SPARES.

Well

, mostly the skeletons, but they've even convinced ME. So, we entered day 1 promoting it, and we entered day 2 the same - with some good townreads. So, I don't see why you're trying to draw conclusions from that.

[Hectic]

I think that you are town because your progressions (how your reads on players change as the game goes on) are extraordinarily deep and I think that the path you are taking now with regards to your scumreads (Replica, Chara, Hectic) are people who are either very strongly townread (Hectic) or are strong players who would be daunting for scum to go against. I don't think any of those pushes are likely to gain traction based on the way they carry themselves and the number of people townreading them. I don't think that scum tend to put in effort unless it feeds an agenda and I don't believe you'd push that group if you simply wanted to look town. As a result, I believe you are either arrogant scum (looking for a challenge), or town who believes that they have something.

Isn't the reason Farkran is pushing those 3 BECAUSE they are highly townread? Sure, he won't gain traction with any of those 3 to FIGHT them, but he will cast doubt on SPARING the three of them, which is a good result for scum!Farkran if they're all town. I don't remember the last time he ever conceded a point to any argument you/Replica/Chara/Psyche has presented. I'm not sure if scum!him originally planned to make himself a potential SPARE target today through these arguments though, I think his primary objective would be to derail the SPARE train.

[Hectic]

We have found a "yup, that's town" level of content in Suji and Sherlock. Unfortunately we found them d1, and one of them was the FN. It would have been significantly better if we found them later, and the FN (ideally not within those two) was spared d2. In THAT scenario i would have been ok sparing from d2 onwards - but even then, during n3 sherlock would probably have been killed too so we would have to rely on good reads in New Home, regardless of sparing or lynching in d4.

if you're of this opinion, then why weren't you okay with SPARING Suji who you regarded as an IC yesterday, and didn't know was our Friendliest of Neighbours?

[Hectic]

No, i'm not pushing them BECAUSE they are highly townread, and i'm not pushing Replica anymore. I'm pushing Hectic/Chara/Psyche AND now to a lesser extent Nacho because of their interactions with each other. Hectic's progression on Chara does not make sense, and vice versa. I wonder how you could say that scum!me originally planned to make myself a spare target today when i fighted with my heart and soul against any spare route from the moment i replaced in in d1. I do not care about being spared, unless i am the last one in a 4 spared route. I have said multiple times that i'd rather be lynched.

hi...
that's what you'll claim...
but to me it looks like you've entered this day with purpose casting paranoia at the most likely SPARE targets...

i still don't get why you don't understand my interactions with Chara...
i liked them early then slightly disliked them for the timing of their unvote...
then liked them again for their flurry of posts close to EoD, where i liked a lot of their opinions, and also them trying to push a SPARE on me like that has little scum motivation from my PoV...
especially after Suji and Sherlock were Sherlock townreads after the PT reveal...
Nacho is probably town for the same reason actually...
i don't see any scum motivation in his play with regards to him pushing me as a SPARE...
if he's scum, i'm an odd target to push and want out of the game of everyone if that makes sense...
and it's not like it'll get him much towncred so struggling to see why he does this as scum...
this same logic doesn't apply to everyone... it depends on the timing and the strength of the push...
for example Psyche has mentioned how i'm a good SPARE and that he should probably towncase me but not done much in actually trying to convince people...
same goes with Chemist, i think...
not saying that means they're scum, but it means they're a lot more likely to be scum who don't have actual conviction in pushing another SPARE through on a townie...
Jingle Jangle is looking a lot better so far for setup spec and progression on Farkran btw...

[Hectic]

not sure if this is wise but i'm kinda townreading Reploca for his recent memeing...
his random push on Bingle and then admitting he'll never get enough votes for this feels towny...
also i completely agree with his meta of Farkran...

[Hectic]

I'm not sure if scum!him originally planned to make himself a potential SPARE target today through these arguments though, I think his primary objective would be to derail the SPARE train.

i actually said the opposite...
i said your objective probably wasn't to make yourself a SPARE target...
it was to derail the train...

[Hectic]

HEAL: Farkran
HURT: Nacho

Going with Farkran over hectic because I feel like my townread is more substantial

if you're scum, i can kinda see Misty being scum with you because of this...
this came after Jangle had expressed Farkran being town since you were actively pushing something...
and Amrun was saying you were probably town as well iirc...
Misty, could you go into your Farkran read a little more please...?
also ftr, i still think Psyche is town overall, mainly for the reaction to the Suji PT post thing...

[Hectic]

snip

HURT: Hectic

I’m not going to read ISO’s and I’m sheeping you because Amrun says you logic is shit without disagreeing with any results. When the consensus seems to be “the new guy can solve the game for us!” actually pushing something is probably a town move and I don’t see signs that anyone else has done so.

your first instinct to sheep a FIGHT vote? You

mentioned

that Farkran was the only one actively pushing something, which was town-indicative. However, there was Chara pushing a me as town (and a SPARE) in posts like 978, as was Psyche in a few of his posts.

[Hectic]

In fact my best solve is bingle/farkran but I feel better about bingle dying today, although his recent posting is better but all mechanical so NAI.

If Farkran suddenly becomes viable I’d try there first.

recent push on Bungle?

[Hectic]

...could hectic be town in a 2x{psyche, chemist, bingle} world?

[Hectic]

Chemist is

peculiar

in that his thoughts/analysis are far more plentiful here than I'm used to town!him. I don't know if that's scum-indicative for him, but despite the increased contribution, he's still felt passive, and hasn't

pushed

many opinions forward. His last real stance was taken in 1182.
Anything changed with regards to your Nacho/Farkran reads since then,

Chemist

?
Also, 1478 looks productive, but I'd like to hear a more firm conclusion over "I wouldn't SPARE Bingle today."
Town/scum/third party/Annoying Dog?

[Hectic]

Anything changed with regards to your Nacho/Farkran reads since then, Chemist?

I did townlean Almidia, but the recent Bingle has made me reconsider that significantly. Bingle's progression that made him go from "i sheep farkran: vote hectic" to "i sheep nacho: heal hectic" to "i am 100% determined i will not lynch today: heal farkran" to "i want to unheal farkran but i'm VLA until the deadline is over and i'm not going to change my vote first"... is bad. Really, really bad. It's like forcing a fake associative on me, because Amrun said he would lynch me if bingle flipped red. Psyche and Replica healing there is also very meh. Especially psyche, who didn't even include Almidia in his fotm sparelist that would lead us to a "so easy victory i don't know how you all can't see it" back in d1. I can buy a Bingle/Psyche team.

He's probably reading too much into the "unvoting heal tag is hard on mobile" thing, but despite our

differences

, I do agree with the rest of the sentiment in this post.

[Hectic]

Chara mysteriously disappearing from Hectic's spare pool is literally the worst and this slot is now awful but this day is on the brink of complete and total disaster

HEAL: Hectic
HURT: Farkran

[Hectic]

Just a theory. What's your scumcase on me again? I know i've been asking more than once but i'd like to be updated on your thoughts.

Mostly based on the arguments you were using to push Hectic/Chara/Replica start of day. I can get why you thought my SPARE>FIGHT>SPARE on Chara could look weird, since it kinda reeks of scum SPARING someone while they townread them, and FIGHTING someone when they scumread them, and flipping again, but other than that, a lot of your arguments have flaws which have already been pointed out by Chara/Replica/Nacho, and I'm more inclined to believe you're scum who's derailing a town SPARE train that rarely concedes any points/sees reason, rather than extremely an stubborn townie that is constantly wrong (sorry if this is a little harsh but most of your arguments do revolve around scum!me), and using flawed arguments.
Also, the Suji IC thing from yesterday, and I think your stance on SPARE/FIGHT is a little too extreme. I mean, you played in that townhunting game, and town managed to lynch 6 town in a row (lynching town was the aim), I don't see why you're SO averse to it. And yes, I know, that game had flips, but this game has a WIN upon 4 successful SPARES.

[Hectic]

I went back to quote it only to realize I missed the "Am I wrong" part of "Am I wrong and the team is exactly Bingle/Replica"

Between that and missing the giant "Chara" in Hectic's post the lesson here is take a shower and put in your contacts when you roll out of bed instead of grabbing your phone first thing.

[Hectic]

So, right now you have enough confidence in yourself that:

- i am the worst player that ever existed, both as town because i have terrible reads, and as scum because you caught me immediately
- amrun has shit-level reads
- psyche is the worst town player that ever existed for giving momentum to my spare wagon
- bingle is so town that his flip will glow like pristine elucidated emeralds

So much that you are willing to:
- spare a slot you don't like over Chara or Bingle himself
- concede your strategy, that you promoted with such vehemency ever since you joined, by lynching a slot in d2

To prevent a bingle flip.

Yes, absolutely yes. Yes to all of these loaded questions and assertions.

Psyche if you're listening you are the worst town player I have ever encountered for this single read in a single game and I don't know how you live with yourself. You are rivaled only by Amrun, whose reads match up with mine completely minus one, because her reads are OBVIOUSLY SHIT

[Hectic]

Just a theory. What's your scumcase on me again? I know i've been asking more than once but i'd like to be updated on your thoughts.

Mostly based on the arguments you were using to push Hectic/Chara/Replica start of day. I can get why you thought my SPARE>FIGHT>SPARE on Chara could look weird, since it kinda reeks of scum SPARING someone while they townread them, and FIGHTING someone when they scumread them, and flipping again, but other than that, a lot of your arguments have flaws which have already been pointed out by Chara/Replica/Nacho, and I'm more inclined to believe you're scum who's derailing a town SPARE train that rarely concedes any points/sees reason, rather than extremely an stubborn townie that is constantly wrong (sorry if this is a little harsh but most of your arguments do revolve around scum!me), and using flawed arguments.
Also, the Suji IC thing from yesterday, and I think your stance on SPARE/FIGHT is a little too extreme. I mean, you played in that townhunting game, and town managed to lynch 6 town in a row (lynching town was the aim), I don't see why you're SO averse to it. And yes, I know, that game had flips, but this game has a WIN upon 4 successful SPARES.

Farkran?

You think this is unreasonable?

[Hectic]

it's progression which

could

be perceived as scum-indicative, but there's many other scenarios where that progression DOES make sense from a town PoV, if you look at the events surrounding them, which you are failing to consider. Regarding the flaws in your arguments, it was stuff like the list of events in timeline that you presented, and where Chara refuted your points and Amrun thanked for having the patience to, I'm too lazy to go back and find the posts.

Very interesting that you were coaching NaCl into manipulating me. Good job on that, it worked till later on.

[Hectic]

i would prefer to put off sorting hectic for another day
i'd say the basis of my TR for him is just less concrete than mine for other leading alternatives

[Hectic]

i couldn't find anything in the Guns and Roses game which resemble his thoughts/reads from 287 to 293.
it's a + for the slot and i think Bingle should be off the FIGHT table for today.
but i wouldn't put so much stock into the meta of a single game, that'd i'd want to SPARE him, pal.

[Hectic]

HEAL: Hectic

[Hectic]

would live and be free to do what he pleased for another day, but I'm glad you all got him discovered him as an accomplice to ruining Sujimichi's book. Oh, and he helped get my precious helmet dusty too.

My army of clones and I have been discussing who the last scum could be, and we had Bingle as our top pick, and I'm glad Psyche carried that shot out, all things considered. Unfortunately, he was a boring old town, which means scum must've been bussing yesterday.

It could certainly be Amrun, despite the fact she decided to hammer Farkran over Nacho. Hammering Nacho and having him flip town means they're in a very bad position if either her or Farkran get lynched/vigged at some point, since the other is directly associated.

Nacho was a counterwagon and pushed by Farkran early yesterday, which gives him good towncred. Chara continues to be a townread, and it didn't need to vote Farkran there and give town!Amrun the opportunity to hammer him there. It could've easily waited it out and let Amrun hammer Nacho.

P.S: The snail casserole is fantastic.

P.S.S: I hope Farkran used that optional ability when he killed Psyche and Replica. I would love to see how Pops drew me holding a tea cup convincingly.

[Hectic]

Requesting popsofctown provides a drawing of me eating my snail casserole. This is absolutely essential for my immersion.

[Hectic]

Nacho was a counterwagon and pushed by Farkran early yesterday, which gives him good towncred. Chara continues to be a townread, and it didn't need to vote Farkran there and give town!Amrun the opportunity to hammer him there. It could've easily waited it out and let Amrun hammer Nacho.

couldn't Amrun have avoided a Farkran lynch the same way? i said i was willing to move to Bingle but she chose to hammer.

Farkran is the one that ends up being lynched anyway.

Additionally

, even if she does secure a mislynch on Bingle, Farkran is a very likely vig shot from Psyche after Bongle flips town, and then Amrun is again heavily incriminated and in a terrible position.
It's

kill or be killed

, and I think it was necessary for her to dump her scum buddy into a Hotland Lava pool.

[Hectic]

HEAL: Replica
i'm disappointed that my preference is still what i started the day with except i'm not. this is objectively the right thing to do. Replica's town, nothing i've looked at has really changed that and my

only

problem with the slot is he goes for a Bingle spare every time before one on himself. but i understand why. also if he is scum then the whole frustration bit would i think have to be faked.

re: Farkran's last post i really don't think Replica has been anything near unpleasant. he just scumreads you. he's also been analyzing, you just disagree. and you're wrong too, given you have Hectic scum still and i find it really pointless to argue about that further either.

HURT: Chemist
i want to spare Replica, but if for some reason that's not happening this is the only hurt vote i'm making today. and i'm sorry but while he probably is town if this is right i'm not comfortable sparing Bingle. i'm actually not sure if a Bingle mispare or a Chemist mislynch is worse. probably a flip is better than no flip. Bingle is a vague townread based on his posting today which i've liked, and Chemist is poe + i think a struggle to produce genuine content.

Chemist/Farkran does seem extremely obvious. i didn't manage to really get a read on Nacho i'm happy with, but i think he could be badly absent scum with Chemist (though i feel like scum Nacho woud make more of an effort? but this is a guess i don't know him well, based on my impressions from this game and what other players have said). i could see absent scum Chemist a little better, and especially his last few posts feel like an attempt at content that is just... there, and leads to a Bingle/Nacho solve.
and if Farkran is scum i find it unlikely it's with Nacho. as for Farkran himself, i'd compromise on that if it's literally the only option but i would absolutely prefer just sparing Replica. a Farkran townflip is probably good information too, scumflip's obviously good, but this consistent choice to double down on Hectic being scum as a scum strategy seems like a ridiculous amount of effort and i don't really understand it. also players i clash with this heavily do tend to be town more often than scum, though that feels anecdotal.
if Amrun

is

scum i haven't really checked who it would be with.

i'm going back home today but i have mafia time this evening. i wish i'd had the thought earlier of scum being absolutely unable to hard bus today because someone did mention it much earlier, and i knew it, and for whatever reason only now did the thought occur to me that scum who cannot bus means you wagon the hell out of the game.

VOTE: chemist

We need to flip something.

Fuck

HURT: chemist

HEAL: replica

HURT: chemist

Better than a spare.

Chara expresses interest in SPARING Replica. It's FIGHT vote is a secondary vote which only puts Chemist on L-2. Scum!Chara has no way of knowing town!Amrun will also vote Chemist and allow Farkran to hammer. It's FIGHT vote comes from a towny place.

Amrun states we need to flip something and FIGHTs Chemist, but then also SPAREs Replica in the same post; likely a vote more for appearances than intention to SPARE Replica.

Farkran follows up with a FIGHT hammer on Chemist; he absolutely cannot allow Replica to be SPARED.

I

believe

Farkran and Amrun's votes on Chemist were coordinated. Amrun is guilty of taking 3 Snowman Pieces.

[Hectic]

Also

, I just realised Replica's profile picture changed:



For a weird cat person zombie thing creature of some kind; I miss that guy.

[Hectic]

if Hectic really trusts my judgement, maybe. in terms of ability to do it i probably could. i know i shouldn't be making decisions based on being afraid of taking responsibility.

i'd be surprised if you were a loser
plus i don't see Farkran waving around his anti-SPARE propaganda like that and loserreading you while you had a good chance of being one of the SPAREs at some point

that said, what do you mean "trust my judgement?"
trust that you're town?
or trust lynching Nacho over Amrun today?

[Hectic]

I'd like to run a questionary to everyone.

Say you need to pick exactly one scum in {nacho, amrun, chara and suji}. Who do you pick and why?

I'm not currently interested in theories where there are no scum or more than one scum among those, the premise is that there is exactly one. Let's try it. It's going to be useful.

@Replica, Sherlock, Psyche, can you answer this for me? I'll ask Toriel to prepare cookies if you do

probably amrun. chara is null too though. i just haven't found any towntells in two relatively long isos.

You're still null. Just as Amrun's reaction to the Suji revelation made me more suspicious of her, your going out of your way to act like it doesn't dramatically up the slot's odds of being town is also super dubious. But I always try to overweight the possibility that I MIGHT BE CRAZY I GUESS.

[fight]amrun[/fight]

so i can have one on someone i dont feel confident about

While

Nacho

on the other hand was a townlean for Psyche.

[Hectic]

We're in agreement that Chara is town. It could be Nacho, but his play makes less sense to me coming from scum than yours. Also, my post about you and Farkran's Misty FIGHTs in quick succession still stand.

[Hectic]

Yeah ok just don’t engage or re-evaluate in any way at all. Whatever.

I

have

reread and reevaluated; I spent a considerable amount of time stretching my leaves in the Ruins, and I even ran into a talking rock while I was there. It's led me to believing you're the last one opposing the DOG. Also, the way in which you were talking about Replica being town, and how you weren't looking forward to a time after he was nightkilled doesn't add up with how you didn't try and push him to be SPARED much at all on that same day. You threw in a last minute SPARE vote on him as you put a FIGHT vote on Misty, and that was it.

[Hectic]

HEAL: Hectic

The only thing I’m happy healing atm.

I think Psyche has a good point here. I mean, I had mentally decided Sherlock is town, regardless of Sujimichi’s alignment.

I’d still rather fight, but my heal vote is misplaced.

HEAL: Sherlock


And I have to admit I like Psyche’s recent postings more and understand him better now.

HEAL: Sujimichi

At this point, we should just spare Sujimichi.


I’m not liking Farkran’s most recent contributions. I do think his theory is right about fighting being superior due to the risk of an incorrect spare. But this close to deadline, at this low level of consensus, sparing Sujimichi is the best move I think.

I also didn’t like Chara saying he’d spare Hectic over Sujimichi/Sherlock. Just, what?

This

isn't

true. You've expressed willingness to SPARE even if it's not your preference this game.

Since you knew Sujimichi was town, and still believed I was town, you should've been

happy

to SPARE Replica given he was confident town for you. 3 town SPARES mean a guaranteed scum death. Your actions don't add up from a town PoV.

[Hectic]

No, if you paid attention to context, which you may or may not have given you were spared, that was the first day I was expressly excited we had a chance not to spare and I was ready to take it. The gamestates were very different during those.

SPARING day 3 when you know one of the SPARES is town, believe the other is, and the 3rd you'd SPARE was a confident townread?

Since you knew Sujimichi was town, and still believed I was town, you should've been happy to SPARE Replica given he was confident town for you. 3 town SPARES mean a guaranteed scum death. Your actions don't add up from a town PoV.

[Hectic]

preliminary opinions on your best guess for scum between us. I found 2354 towny, but the subsequent posts feel like overkill.

Yes

, I know you're busy (Happy Birthday btw!), but you've still managed to post a lot while addressing us both as equally possible scum. No gun to head thoughts?

Sorry, Amrun. I was tunnelled deep within Snowdin Forest.

[Hectic]

Those would be my initial thoughts. To reminisce over the old times, and complete this

genocide

with you.

I also think it's Nacho, but I won't be voting until I'm sure. I'll be putting time aside to reread stuff, especially from during the time I was SPARED, since I was

less

attentive then.

[Hectic]

hey pal
i see the FIGHT vote
i have very little time today but will have more tomorrow
that's when i'll likely make my decision

[Hectic]

And if Hectic continues to keep posting in other games and give absolutely nothing here then I'm going to park my vote on him and fuck off elsewhere. You're in Final 3 - I get not having time, but what you're doing now is disrespectful.

i'm not gonna make an uninformed decision
i will be putting time into this

[Hectic]

some preliminary questions based on this day phase alone:

Chara, why did you place your vote on Nacho after Nacho had expressed near-intent to vote me? if Nacho placed his vote on me, it would make you the decider and mean a world where you are misFOUGHT never happens, so overall should increase the odds of victory

Nacho, why do you think scum!Chara votes you there after you placed near-intent? Any ideas?

[Hectic]

thanks for the answers, pals
could i ask you both what the single most scummy thing is that the other person has done in each day phase?
the rereading and proper interrogation begins tomorrow
the DOG's calling in the entire clone army

[Hectic]

HURT: unvote
i may have been wrong about Chara...
but i am a little suspicious...
i'm still hiding from her after we started playing hide and seek and she still hasn't found me...
maybe scum-indicative...?

aha! but i did find you. i knew where you were hiding the whole time, you kept whispering about it.

(...don't tell anyone i forgot we were playing........)

we didn't specify a reason...
did you already have an inclination for why we changed our mind...?

P.S: i was hiding with the River Person all along...
he doesn't say much... i like that...

[Hectic]

the inability to explain how his reads changed is i think the biggest indicator. he was never able to adequately explain why Amrun and i were townreads

[Hectic]

WHY FAKRAN IS FRIEND:

1)

In Fakran's opening, I really like how he was fairly scattered and combative and took a number of shots to the wall that obviously weren't popular - in particular, I liked how he went from calling Amrun his strongest townread to immediately attacking her two posts down the road (and thought that him getting concerned about her interacting with her top scumread was a reasonable line of inquiry and demonstrates him handling a bunch of different possibilities all at once). It's possible for scum to come out swinging on all cylinders in the way that he did here, but it's a remarkably risky move to take close to deadline since he's basically taken a swing at everyone who's anyone all at once - the level of conviction that resulted in "even a lynch on me is better than sparing!" is remarkably ballsy without solid theory to stand behind.

I like this post wrt Amrun from Farkran, and have based pieces of my read on Replica based on this reasoning exactly. If Farkran is scum I'm not sure he offers a townread like that which is so hard to back away from.

I think that this post is also a really weird and emotionally manipulative one if Farkran is scum here. Farkran has his feelings hurt a bit by Suji calling him "detrimental to town or a strong Mafia leader", and uses that as leverage to jab back and say that Suji wasn't acting like themselves.

It's also crazy hard for me to see something like this meta engagement bit and then launching into Replica being near certain because he spoke about the danger of people sheeping his vote and wagons creating coming from scum in a million billion years - again, that's sticking your neck way way out for absolutely no reason if scum - which of course comes in the middle of a bunch of Farkran prodding at various groups moving together (Hectic spare being equal to Farkran fight, etc) - there's just a lot of shit going on here if Farkran is scum - a ton of effort put into "showing progressions and showing that he's willing to push reads" but not a lot of effort into an actual scum agenda.

Loved the salty response here - that shit was pure.

Farkran coming out with guns ablazing against you/Replica/Hectic here makes no fucking sense if Farkran is scum here; there's definitely diminishing returns associated with being townread for being crazy in this setup (not likely to get spared if you go too far off the ranch). And I can go on if you'd like but the whole read is along the same lines - Fakran is extraordinarily genuine and taking a very very absurd track if scum, Fakran also has pretty excellent progressions on reads if scum and also tends to run through a large # of possible scum worlds all at once that surface now and again in his ISO. Fakran is almost certainly town.

errors you made now?

I'm Grillby btw, let me know if you need any ketchup. You're a freind of Sans, and that guy is obsessed.

[Hectic]

well, one thing is for sure, pals
you're both incredible players no matter your alignments

Nacho, why do you think Chara was so good at discounting Farkran when he first proposed the anti-Hectic/Chara/Farkran idea
the timeline of events that Farkran posted which Chara proceeds to dismantle comes to mind
also, why does scum!Farkran derail any potential chance of a Chara SPARE?

13 hours remaining

[Hectic]

alright.
i see the arguments for lynching today. i'm assuming they're sound, mechanics Chara is taking a nap at the moment.

pedit: why do we lynch me on a Nacho townflip?
i'd be happy to spare Replica if that's on the table.

why did you give up on taking the 4 SPARE route here?
did you think the people proposing lynching as optimal were town?
Farkran was one of them

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

More gratuitous shade - there is nothing in my theory that i haven't been explaining solidly and properly, even if you believe i am wrong. Resorting to omgus-fossing when you are out of arguments is not the correct move.

HURT: Farkran

the solidity of your theory or the consistency of your explanation has little to do with your towniness. it does have everything to do with scum who try to be correct in order to avoid being caught in a contradiction.

it also doesn't make any sense if you scumread Replica to word it this way. it's like you're saying if town Replica should find your argument sound, when the point of what you're saying is that they're scum.
that's not quite exactly what i mean but i hope it comes across.

HEAL: Hectic

HURT: Farkran

Hectic, do you have any scumreads?

i also don't think we have enough yet. at least not a tight enough PoE that i'm willing to bet the game on it. more from alimdia/Nacho/Chemist slots would be good.

but i'm pretty confident about being able to reliably find town in the right environment. i just think it will be ruined or at least skewed if we collectively decide to only spare. i was thinking about playing this like coalition, but that was a game that i ended up being confident in exactly 0 townreads in due to the way it was set up.

HEAL: Replica
i'm disappointed that my preference is still what i started the day with except i'm not. this is objectively the right thing to do. Replica's town, nothing i've looked at has really changed that and my

only

problem with the slot is he goes for a Bingle spare every time before one on himself. but i understand why. also if he is scum then the whole frustration bit would i think have to be faked.

re: Farkran's last post i really don't think Replica has been anything near unpleasant. he just scumreads you. he's also been analyzing, you just disagree. and you're wrong too, given you have Hectic scum still and i find it really pointless to argue about that further either.

HURT: Chemist
i want to spare Replica, but if for some reason that's not happening this is the only hurt vote i'm making today. and i'm sorry but while he probably is town if this is right i'm not comfortable sparing Bingle. i'm actually not sure if a Bingle mispare or a Chemist mislynch is worse. probably a flip is better than no flip. Bingle is a vague townread based on his posting today which i've liked, and Chemist is poe + i think a struggle to produce genuine content.

Chemist/Farkran does seem extremely obvious. i didn't manage to really get a read on Nacho i'm happy with, but i think he could be badly absent scum with Chemist (though i feel like scum Nacho woud make more of an effort? but this is a guess i don't know him well, based on my impressions from this game and what other players have said). i could see absent scum Chemist a little better, and especially his last few posts feel like an attempt at content that is just... there, and leads to a Bingle/Nacho solve.
and if Farkran is scum i find it unlikely it's with Nacho. as for Farkran himself, i'd compromise on that if it's literally the only option but i would absolutely prefer just sparing Replica. a Farkran townflip is probably good information too, scumflip's obviously good, but this consistent choice to double down on Hectic being scum as a scum strategy seems like a ridiculous amount of effort and i don't really understand it. also players i clash with this heavily do tend to be town more often than scum, though that feels anecdotal.
if Amrun

is

scum i haven't really checked who it would be with.

i'm going back home today but i have mafia time this evening. i wish i'd had the thought earlier of scum being absolutely unable to hard bus today because someone did mention it much earlier, and i knew it, and for whatever reason only now did the thought occur to me that scum who cannot bus means you wagon the hell out of the game.

HOW_FARKRAN_WENT_FROM_YOUR_TOP_SCUMREAD_TO_NOT_BEING_A_FIGHT_CONSIDERATION. SUMMARISE_WHAT_HE_DID_THAT_MADE_YOU_RECONSIDER_IN_THAT_TIME_FRAME. please.

Is it just him doubling down on me being scum that you didn't see scum doing? Anything else?

[Hectic]

And I'm so glad I didn't get quickhammered in a pedit right there because that was a legitimate fear of mine for a second. But, I'm not doing the Day 4/Day 5 thing unless you really need it because ^that^ is the most important piece. If scum lost the game immediately by a Nacho or Fakran lynch then there's no fucking way that Farkran tunnels me the entire day and I disappear the entire day only to spend the entirety of the next day calling him town town town before actually lynching him Day 5 or whenever the hell that was when we lynched him - the risk/reward for towncred just straight up isn't worth it. Chara having an unexplained change of heart on Day 3 and just coincidentally being the most pivotal vote to save their chances of winning is something that just doesn't happen out of coincidence.

Chara

had

the opportunity to hammer you here but instead opted to vote Fakran:

VOTE: Farkran
i'm too sick to agonize about this for another day. i have the best feeling about Farkran being scum here.
am willing to switch to Bingle if i have to. i probably will if Amrun asks because this is the second time i've avoided her preferred lynch in favour of mine and i feel kind of shitty about that.

bah.
HURT: Farkran

Why

does it choose to flip it's scumread on Farkran to save him the previous day, for then to only give up this chance the next?

[Hectic]

basically i was really confident in scum Farkran, i didn't like anything he was doing, i hated both his takes and his attitude, and i was getting really frustrated about it.

And going from this to "I will hurt Chemist and only Chemist" is what makes the flip so unbelievable, especially since Chara still had Farkran as scum #2.

If Chara expressed a preference for Chemist and was wrong, whatever - town get egg on their faces all the time. But Chara drew a line in the Sand because if it didn't, it would have lost.

Why do you think so?

Why do you

not

think Chara would lose if it continued the bus on Farkran there into a lynch? It could ride out it's townreads + towncred for bussing Farkran the next few days, and Misty likely gets lynched the next day.

[Hectic]

*why do you think Chara would lose

[Hectic]

New Home Vote Count 2.0

Hectic-------------

Chara-------------

Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8--

Chara

Not Fighting:

Hectic

(expired on 2020-03-13 23:58:00)

?

If Chara bussed Farkran Day 3, then we would spare anyone on Day 4. If we spared town, Chara would be forced to suicide. If we spared Chara, then we'd know there was confirmed scum in you/Chara and we'd have 2 lynches and a bullet to get there.

Do you think a SPARE would've happened on Day 4? Bingle (from day 3), you, Amrun were all very pro-FIGHT. Chara could decide to not push SPARING the next day for whatever reasons it could think of.

[Hectic]

successful in making me reconsider. He raises decent points and is dangerously convincing. Overall, I'm still likely to hammer Nacho though after rereading through each of their ISOs. Chara is been so natural and clean this game, and Nacho's flip on Farkran from town>scum came with a lot less reasoning or evident natural though than Chara's did:

OK.

HURT: Farkran

I'll be flying out shortly which means that I'll spend my time catching up some time tomorrow - I see that I don't have a whole lot of catching up to do. I still don't think Hectic was scum and I can't see two scum in Amrun/Chara/Bingle so here we are!

Additionally, I read over the reasons Replica/Amrun had for townreading it, and they are very solid.

Pedit: Yes, could you explain why you couldn't see two scum in those 3? What happened to your Farkan towncase?

[Hectic]

Hectic has disappointed me by showing an abysmally low level of reconsideration during this stage of the game.

[Hectic]

Overall, I'm still likely to hammer Nacho though after rereading through each of their ISOs.

That is ridiculous.

Do you really believe that Chara, as town, spent an entire game day attacking Farkran before deciding that it would hurt Chemist and ONLY Chemist despite the two scumreads being extraordinarily close to each other and this happening on the one day that scum needed to lynch town or they would instantly lose?

Or, that on that same day where scum needed to lynch town or they lost that Farkran, the active scumpartner, bussed Nacho, the inactive scum partner until that wagon didn't gain any traction and then voted himself?

Because if you do then you don't understand how pivotal that moment was and you should be asking more questions about it. That is the smoking gun. Guns don't get smokier than that gun is.

Chara, please get in here and change my mind on this. Nacho is very convincing.

[Hectic]

Name 1 reason to townread Chara that is firmer than "Chara derailed a scum wagon in a situation where it would have won the game for scum in order to lynch town, despite scumreading that scum the day before".

Town change their minds and progress on reads though. 2426 and it's earlier explanations felt genuine to me.

Why is what Chara did scummier than you townreading and towncasing Farkran and not FIGHTing him at all, until you did because of PoE? I see both flips as equally scummy.

[Hectic]

Because when Chara flipped, it was when scum-Chara had to flip or scum would have lost the game.

why does scum!Chara put itself in that position in the first place? Go through day 2 bussing Fakran while also pushing to SPARE me, while knowing it will have to reverse it's scumread on Farkran the next day since it would mean an autoloss. What's the gameplan there; why bus Farkran at all?

[Hectic]

Why is what Chara did scummier than you townreading and towncasing Farkran and not FIGHTing him at all, until you did because of PoE? I see both flips as equally scummy.

I spent all day reading through Farkran and asking him questions and looking through his meta to the point where I was recalling random interactions he'd had with townies in other threads, I was quoting posts he'd have from other games. And yet, at the end of the day, despite towncasing him, I still expressed how unsure I felt about him several times. If I were scum, all of that posting would be an absolute waste; could have appealed to anyone else and made an ally, could have made a firmer town case and protected him, could have made a scum case and bussed him and got cred but did none of that.

Town sometimes looks sloppy. And most importantly, I DID NOT DERAIL A SCUM WAGON TO LYNCH TOWN WHEN THAT SCUM WAGON WOULD HAVE LEAD TO A SCUM LOSS.

Is it a waste though? The towncase (hopefully) convinces people that Farkran is town. Expressing you're unsure after making the towncase isn't going to change anyone's minds; that's just you expressing an opinion. The case you made has evidence/posts and will change their minds.

[Hectic]

okay, pals.
i really need to sleep.
Nacho, you raise really good points and i agree that point sure is smoky.
also i agree on the Psyche kills pointing more to Chara over you.
but ignoring that instance, i do think the rest of the game weighs towards Chara being town, and you scum.
i'm extremely sorry if i'm wrong but i've done a lot of rereading trying to convince myself Chara is scum and seeing it's actions as scum and i really struggle to in other places.

[Hectic]

There's no points against me other than my progressions not making sense which actually isn't scummy - don't you think if I spent so much time on my Farkran interactions that I'd figure out how to explain going from town to scum on him?

Reading back, I agreed with Amrun's points the previous day on how you seemed to come into that day with an agenda on her.

[Hectic]

I've played this game for 10 years and suddenly I don't know how to get explain "I was townreading this person and now I'm scumreading them" in a way that is palatable or I wasn't particularly worried about it because finding scum is more important to a townie than looking town?

But AAAAAA, you're so convincing

[Hectic]

HEAL: Chara

Sigh, I wish I'd have been more active earlier this day phase, since I'm less sure now than I was near the start. But alas, the deadline is upon us. I apologise if I'm incorrect, Nacho. You're both amazing <3

[Hectic]

HEAL: Chara

[ig]https://i.imgur.com/08qBYYz.png[/img]
[ig]https://i.imgur.com/tCtjs5k.png[/img]
[hrt]Nacho[/hurt]

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

through the alternate ending in the mod PT.
if only we got that one.
sorry, Nacho, pal.

[Hectic]

i feel like hectic could roleplay better tbh

I got sloppy at the end, but that was because of the circumstances.

Okay, time to sleep. Fantastic game everyone!

[Hectic]

Don't quit, Replica! You were really fun to play with <3 This was your first game in 2 years; of course there's gonna be differences in your play.

Maybe it's different for you, but my satisfaction coming out of a game stems more from whether I enjoyed it and the players, and less from whether or not I won. Did I win this game? No. Did I have fun? Hell yes.