NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Rift Adrift]

hi guys

- f

[Rift Adrift]

btw

Links to our main profiles

fferyllt - http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20541

Syryana - http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20972

- f

[Rift Adrift]

Broseidon is scum.

Vote: Broseidon

Zdenek is town.

VOTE: BROseidon.

Which half of the hydra is this?

Doesn't matter.

You're still scum.

This is most likely Mastin.

If Nacho doesn't come out and talk to me I am going to get pretty paranoid about you guys.

- f

[Rift Adrift]

It creates a giant scum-WIFOM mess.

Basically, since we would only run up a wagon on the person who had the most votes, scum would just have to manipulate the list to make sure that that is not one of them. Let's say there are 6 scum. Any number of them just need to vote for the same person to make sure that person has more than any scum. Beyond that, scum can list whoever the fuck they want on the list. So scum member A could list 3 other scum while scum member B lists no scum at all. Since the idea presumably would be to look back at these lists later to try to build connections, scum can manipulate that by being inconsistent/bus-heavy in their lists.

The tl;dr version is scum have information, town doesn't, that lets scum manipulate this plan to their advantage, and they have too many ways in which they can manipulate it to their advantage for us to use that later for associative tells.

I really really really don't think scum would care about the plan all that much.
But hey, at least this pegs you as likely town.

This is most likely Mastin.

If Nacho doesn't come out and talk to me I am going to get pretty paranoid about you guys.

- f

hi ffery!
I have Zdenek, BRO, Prohawk, TiP, and maybe Stevie as town.

you know, we would make a pretty non-dissonant hydra as hydrae go.

- f

[Rift Adrift]

Hold the phone
You just said Bro, Stevie, and I were scum

What's up with that?

You were in the dragonballz game. don't play dumb.

[Rift Adrift]

But you were Town in the Dragonball game

Fuck, I'm not used to larges
I'm thinking whoever hasn't posted is scum yay we win

My alignment in either game has fuck-all to do with why your post was dumb.

- f

[Rift Adrift]

Hi Cabd.

- f

[Rift Adrift]

But, if nobody else is going to sign posts, neither will I.

[Rift Adrift]

Risky from my perspective as well.

[Rift Adrift]

Risky from my perspective as well.

What do you think of Ank?

If I were going to put a vote down prior to Syry reading the thread and our doing a synch up, post 41 would have drawn my vote. Scummiest post I've seen in the thread so far.

[Rift Adrift]

ProHawk is town, despite how stupid his idea was.
TiP, BROseidon, and Stevie are all scum.

I have Zdenek, BRO, Prohawk, TiP, and maybe Stevie as town.

Wait... so one of you has Stevie as scum and one of you as town? Could you please sign?

The writing style pattern-matchingchallenge makes this game much more fun without signatures.

[Rift Adrift]

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.

can you tell me how this is scummy and how this doesn't work in reverse?

Because in the beginning of the game a good town is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. It should take more than 2 pages of fluff/RVS for you to determine that someone is a townie.

can't wait for orcinus to read this.

Scumhunting, on the other hand, is always encouraged.

scumhunting and townhunting work hand in hand. And accurate page one town reads are not unheard of. Not with this player list.

[Rift Adrift]

Risky from my perspective as well.

What do you think of Ank?

If I were going to put a vote down prior to Syry reading the thread and our doing a synch up, post 41 would have drawn my vote. Scummiest post I've seen in the thread so far.

I kinda thought I might get some feedback about this. Nacho? Anybody?

[Rift Adrift]

41 is the reason I'm voting Ank, so that shows we've synced up pretty well already.

<3

[Rift Adrift]

See, Ank can be Town for now
Because good players would meta me and see this is not my scum/cult game

Are you kidding me right now? You're giving town-reads to people who assume you're town?

Cabd, meet TiP.

[Rift Adrift]

Hi Shadi!

[Rift Adrift]

Hi MS.

If Syr ever gets his butt online, we'll ALL find out how Rift Adrift turns out.

[Rift Adrift]

lol mastin
isnt he like with nero

then who is nero with?

nero isn't a hydra.

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer = Nacho and Mastin

Pretty sure most of what we've seen so far has been Mastin

Nacho has made several posts. I'm happy he's town this time.

[Rift Adrift]

[quote="In post 103, Calcifer

If I were going to put a vote down prior to Syry reading the thread and our doing a synch up, post 41 would have drawn my vote. Scummiest post I've seen in the thread so far.

41 is the reason I'm voting Ank, so that shows we've synced up pretty well already.
[/quote]

VOTE: Ankamius

[Rift Adrift]

I hate quotefail.

[Rift Adrift]

there was something else that caught my eye on a brief skin of the 8 pages:

Nulls:
Orc (not enough posts yet)
Everyone Else because it’s like page 6 and several people only have RVS posts.

Krab person (cabd?) - why did you feel the need to seperate orc for not having enough posts from everyone else who don't have enough posts? I found this kinda bizarre behaviour.

It's weird to see him NOT super hyperactive, after seeing his play in other games. I felt it needed more distinction, hence "not enough posts yet", because orci usually has walls up by now.

This is true and it is why I don't have a read for him yet. He and I are a hydra in another game, so I know his slow start in this game has RL reasons. Otherwise I'd probably be freaking out about how quiet he is in this game.

[Rift Adrift]

I don't get what you two are seeing in 41. If either you or Nacho would explain it, then I would be able to have an opinion about whether or not you're right.

Nacho's reason may be a little different. The thing that I picked up on was an awkward indirectness. "I think I see what you are seeing", rather than "Is it because of X?" or something similar. This looks scummy to me because I see scum do this way more often than town, like they are afraid that they'll have the wrong "answer" about why the post in question looks bad.

Town players don't worry about having the wrong answer - they worry about getting something useful back, and tend to be more direct as a result.

[Rift Adrift]

I don't get what you two are seeing in 41. If either you or Nacho would explain it, then I would be able to have an opinion about whether or not you're right.

Nacho's reason may be a little different. The thing that I picked up on was an awkward indirectness. "I think I see what you are seeing", rather than "Is it because of X?" or something similar. This looks scummy to me because I see scum do this way more often than town, like they are afraid that they'll have the wrong "answer" about why the post in question looks bad.

Town players don't worry about having the wrong answer - they worry about getting something useful back, and tend to be more direct as a result.

This reasoning is solid. Do you think that Ank is the best lynch right now?

TSO is null. Case isn't great, but I think there are points there that are not bad. Doc is still null, maybe null-lean-scum.

Letters kind of null right now. Need to see more. Need to reread Nero to get a better sense of what I think there, but right now I think he's also a little scummy (although he and Stevie probably aren't both scum unless this is multiball).

I would feel better about the reasoning if a couple other good scumhunters had jumped on this. And I'd feel better about a few players too, tbh. I mean, we both pointed up a specific post.

I won't move my vote unless Syr disagrees strongly, or something more scummy gets posted.

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer, it would be pretty cool to chat again sometime soon.

[Rift Adrift]

Does my take on post 41 bear any resemblance to yours?

[Rift Adrift]

And your thoughts about T S O and Stevie?

[Rift Adrift]

Could everyone just vote Stevie. Guy's flipping scum.

Maybe if you explained why?

[Rift Adrift]

Mac, MS, Nero all new townreads. Do you agree?

Yes on Mac, Nero. Willing to take your word on MS - he seems like he's relaxed and having fun. Hasn't pinged at all.

[Rift Adrift]

Could everyone just vote Stevie. Guy's flipping scum.

Maybe if you explained why?

I did.

I guess it wasn't persuasive.

Did you read Nacho/Calcifer's comments to BRO about a site meta difference?

[Rift Adrift]

Alright, so you all think I'm Town. That's good. I think we should lynch Stevie.
VOTE: Stevie
Whoever doesn't vote Stevie is either scum or a tree stump

I have a better idea. Vote Ank.

[Rift Adrift]

We are Rift Adrift, Grumpy Ascetic Lynchproof Global Lightning Rod.

All your night actions are belong to us.

Here's how this game is going to go:

We are lynching Ankamius toDay.

Nothing will happen toNight.

Tomorrow we lynch Mac.

Night 2 we self-destruct.

After that, you're on your own. We recommend you not lynch Nero, TIP, or mastin. You can lynch Nacho, though.

Please proceed to vote Ankamius in an orderly fashion.

[Rift Adrift]

Let me know if I need to start signing my posts.

[Rift Adrift]

Let me know if I need to start signing my posts.

I absolutely promise to ignore anyone asking me to sign my posts.

I also promise to ignore any scumflailing from BRO when we secretly lynch him Day 3 after not self-destructing Night 2.

[Rift Adrift]

Or.

We could get a scumflip off of BROseidon today.

Then tomorrow, we nuke T S O or Stevie.

Sounds like a better plan to me.

I am happy that you are so eager to bus your buddies.

All in good time, my pretty.

[Rift Adrift]

lol

I would like to start a poll. The question:
What should I reply to this post with?

Possible choices:
"DIESCUMDIE"
"Weak."
"I'LL GET YOU MY PRETTY, AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO"
"unvote, vote: Ankamius"
Various assorted gifs.
All of the above.

Poll will close in (expired on 2013-06-15 00:00:00)

[Rift Adrift]

Yes, sheep the slot that is voting me for literally one post and has spent half his ISO doing nothing but tunneling me for it while giving virtually no other reads worth anything.

Bravo, TIP. Bravo.

This is even after the only thing you've ever said about me was stating I was a town read AFTER the scum read on me was explained. That vote is literally retarded.

Why hello there. Most of that ISO is mine.

I am not a he.

"while giving virtually no other reads worth anything"

That just might be sig-worthy.

[Rift Adrift]

are you gonna quit being a condescending prat and actually fucking do something?

not today?

I didn't think it was possible to exceed Nero's level of uselessness.

[Rift Adrift]

What happened?

Posts happened. What do you make of them?

[Rift Adrift]

Hey Calcifer, T S O is doing useful stuff. Wanna add him to the town pile?

Mac and Kingcrabd need to post more.

I'd say the same of orcinus but I know he's sick due to our hydraing in another game.

[Rift Adrift]

Happy Birthday, Ankimius!

[Rift Adrift]

are you gonna quit being a condescending prat and actually fucking do something?

not today?

I didn't think it was possible to exceed Nero's level of uselessness.

shut the fuck up and quit with your ironic shit posting you spherical bastard.

[Rift Adrift]

interesting. not a problem for me. photobucketed for future use, for which I'm sure you will provide opportunities.

[Rift Adrift]

BRO is a terrible lynch voice Stevie.

[Rift Adrift]

yes we do. I am phoneposting atm. should be at my laptop in a couple hours.

[Rift Adrift]

Ffery, we need to talk again.

I'm at a real keyboard now. Will be around.

[Rift Adrift]

Dearist Rift. Why is Mac scum? Kthnx.

Hi! Hope things have cooled down since yesterday.

There is some hydra dissonance happening re Mac. I'm leaning town with some worries sprinkled on top because he's not posting often and not posting aggressively.

To Syr those sprinkles are more like bricks, and he's consequently leaning scum.

[Rift Adrift]

How are you feeling about Stevie? I'm finding the pile up of votes in that direction kinda troubling.

[Rift Adrift]

Re full reads lists I ran into some players on another site this week that consider early-ish day 1 full reads lists to be a scum tell. I have seen some scummy full reads lists before, but it was the reasoning, not the length that made them scummy.

[Rift Adrift]

How are you feeling about Stevie? I'm finding the pile up of votes in that direction kinda troubling.

I still feel good about Stevie and I hate the wagon on him.

Re full reads lists I ran into some players on another site this week that consider early-ish day 1 full reads lists to be a scum tell. I have seen some scummy full reads lists before, but it was the reasoning, not the length that made them scummy.

This is Ank coming off a game where he was essentially a vigilante who we (scum) kept alive because he gave a full reads list and the scum were at the top of the list for the whole game. The fact that he tells DOMO not to do it but doesn't really attack him for it feels genuine considering the game that just ended, and I don't really see his reasoning for faking paranoia like that as scum here since it doesn't really accomplish any sort of purpose.

I reread his posts, and with this context it makes more sense. I'm not sure it's a town-tell per se though.

UNVOTE: Ankamius

Syr and I will discuss our vote when he's around again.

[Rift Adrift]

How are you feeling about Stevie? I'm finding the pile up of votes in that direction kinda troubling.

I still feel good about Stevie and I hate the wagon on him.

Re full reads lists I ran into some players on another site this week that consider early-ish day 1 full reads lists to be a scum tell. I have seen some scummy full reads lists before, but it was the reasoning, not the length that made them scummy.

This is Ank coming off a game where he was essentially a vigilante who we (scum) kept alive because he gave a full reads list and the scum were at the top of the list for the whole game. The fact that he tells DOMO not to do it but doesn't really attack him for it feels genuine considering the game that just ended, and I don't really see his reasoning for faking paranoia like that as scum here since it doesn't really accomplish any sort of purpose.

I reread his posts, and with this context it makes more sense. I'm not sure it's a town-tell per se though.

UNVOTE: Ankamius

Syr and I will discuss our vote when he's around again.

[Rift Adrift]

you were reading us as town despite the conflicting reads?

I consider hydra disagreement to be rather null, so it wouldn't sway me one way or the other.

@rift - that notes and reads post is pretty much standard for when I replace into games, regardless of my alignment. I realise I didn't replace into this one, but I missed all of RVS and so felt obliged to read through and share my ideas.

And calcifer... I think I'm happy to put ank in town camp with that in mind. It makes sense why he doesn't like them now, and it's something I might think seriously about.

Like I said, I don't buy that they are scummy by nature. I was surprised at some guys from omgus.net or wherever the hell it was who jumped all over a newb for posting a full reads list.

They are exploitable, though. I exploited a couple vigs elsewhere once upon a time.

[Rift Adrift]

I'm wondering about Zdenek. Was about to iso him, but what I remember offhand about his postings is that he's pushing the stevie wagon without laying down much reasoning or trying to engage him.

That's kinda bugging me about several stevie votes. They look poorly supported, bandwagon-ho and (hate this word but what the hell) opportunistic.

[Rift Adrift]

Voted twice on low hanging but townish looking fruit without much (if any) support, and appeared to be moving in the direction of the now-fading Ank-wagon. Posting style is kinda posture-y. I haven't played with him before so I don't know iuf the posturing is typical. The votes look bad if he's an experienced and usually savvy player. I'll need meta to determine how bad.

[Rift Adrift]

lol holy shit.

yeah. he needs some votes.

[Rift Adrift]

I was wondering how long it would take you to revert back to your classic day one play, hawk. I'd usually say you're town for it, but the delayed timing makes it seem forced, kind of like you're trying to invoke your townmeta. Furthermore, do you intend to tell me that my vote served no use? It made it apparent we had a player actively lurking, that is, watching the thread but not posting.

dramonic seems to be set on saying absolutely nothing of value.

You seem a bit more annoyed than normal and, this is quite unlike your town-meta response... soo?

But... going back and reading your post in question it appears you had Dramonic in your scum-pile you had just put a ton of empty lines in between so I missed it and what I was seeing as scummy was a mistake on my part.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BROsideon

A certain head in this hydra is annoyed by just about anything, could explain meta variance.

Other head needs to get back from dinner so we can convene on a view on this interesting conversation about Doc here

.

How's this coming along?

[Rift Adrift]

How are you feeling about Stevie? I'm finding the pile up of votes in that direction kinda troubling.

Why do you think he's town?

I had him as null. His reaction to bw pressure looks like pissed off town. His bandwagon bothers me more than he does.

[Rift Adrift]

he's literally got a sign like this above his head:

Do you have any reasons for posting that, or does "I concur" count as analysis these days?

good work comrades, pile the votes on stevie. if required, i will hardclaim my role to get him lynched.

Just pointing out while I read the rest of the pages how retarded this post is

.

That was directed at Ank, but I guess it applies to you as well. You have many voters. You seem to be popular. So you use the "retarded" excuse instead of addressing what has been thrown at you.

I addressed what was thrown at me. Scum softclaiming some BS when we STARTED ON A DAY! That is straight retarded.

PEDIT: @TiP well I think he's wrong, obviously....I like his other scumreads though.

You

think

he's wrong? lolwut

is this what qualifies as analysis on this site these days?

Pissed off town looking to me.

Some of his other posts look town-motivated, though I didn't like his post about the BRO wagon.

[Rift Adrift]

Pissed off town looking to me.

I don't see town in any of that.

Then we see differently.

[Rift Adrift]

Pissed off town looking to me.

I don't see town in any of that.

Then we see differently.

Do you think that "pissed off" is some thing that scum doesn't get or is this some sort of gut read?

Scum can definitely get pissed off.

My read is not some sort of binary state, which your "or" sort of implies.

[Rift Adrift]

How about some reasons for him being scum? You've been pretty damn quiet on the reasons front.

Yes please. What is the basis of your scum read?

[Rift Adrift]

You've changed, TiP.

It was that popcorn game, wasn't it?

[Rift Adrift]

And they said the DocHol case scuks... ;]

What is this in reference to?

[Rift Adrift]

@DOMO

it depends on what your definition of "good" is. If you're asking if Broseidon is scum, I will answer that I have not seen much compelling evidence to make me believe so as of yet

Well, by good I mean someone who has a higher probability of being scum than average. I mean it's day one, I don't expect there to be anything that I would define as "compelling".

Is there anything you see as "compelling"?

Is this rev?

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer
Are you Town
Just tell me now
Also, who should I vote

Yes. Vote Doc Holliday with me while we wait for Syryana to get back.

This. Also, TIP's post, but I can't multiquote that easily atm.

Who's "they"? And why do you think Metal Sonic is more scummy than Doc Holliday?

[Rift Adrift]

"They" as in the people who said it was a bad case? Practically half the game.

..perhaps the case wasn't fully damning. However! Its coreprinciples were correct!

*stands down from stage*

and...your vote is on MS instead of Doc Holliday because _____?

[Rift Adrift]

Synched enough to VOTE: Doc Holliday

[Rift Adrift]

@DOMO

it depends on what your definition of "good" is. If you're asking if Broseidon is scum, I will answer that I have not seen much compelling evidence to make me believe so as of yet

Well, by good I mean someone who has a higher probability of being scum than average. I mean it's day one, I don't expect there to be anything that I would define as "compelling".

Is there anything you see as "compelling"?

Calcifer? Is it just me, or for a rev post does this ping a little?

slipped.

[Rift Adrift]

...why are you asking Calcifer?

To be exact, I'm asking Nacho.

[Rift Adrift]

It's a nice little fun discussion for day one honestly. I have no fucking idea who Varsoon is.

The first thing I did when I saw this was to look at this guy's join date. "Joined: 2010"

whew

But just to be sure I double checked the games he played

Yes, this is only like the second game I've played HERE. But I've been playing mafia for years.

But seriously....who the fuck is Varsoon? He sounds...important

Not so much important as quickly gaining some notoriety for usually bizarre and usually ineffective reaction tests.

[Rift Adrift]

@DOMO

it depends on what your definition of "good" is. If you're asking if Broseidon is scum, I will answer that I have not seen much compelling evidence to make me believe so as of yet

Well, by good I mean someone who has a higher probability of being scum than average. I mean it's day one, I don't expect there to be anything that I would define as "compelling".

Is there anything you see as "compelling"?

Calcifer? Is it just me, or for a rev post does this ping a little?

slipped.

ff, I've played you once as far as I can remember, and that game is still ongoing after you got lynched d1 and I got NK'ed n1. Are you really using meta to cast suspicion at me?

-rev

You and I have played one game. I'm ignoring it for the purposes of this game, so I have no experiential meta upon which to draw. I've been reading the Overly Posh game.

[Rift Adrift]

You were vanilla town, yes.

[Rift Adrift]

Thanks. I'll have a look. The thing that stood out in the overly posh game in comparison to this one was the sheer brevity of your posts during the early days. It reminded me of one of my scum tells from a few years ago.

Then I started playing with people who thought brevity was scummy. Mafia is an experiment in operant conditioning.

[Rift Adrift]

Town: Calcifer, Steve, TMT, Nero, TIP, truly14(and his replacement), Brian Hollywood

Null: Whoever isn't on Town or Scum

Scum: Doc, Zdenek, DOMO, Mac, TSO, Goat

Nacho my love, I am here to banish your cares and fears, speak to me

[Rift Adrift]

OOOORRRRRCCCCIIIINNNNUUUUSSSS!!!!!!!!

[Rift Adrift]

Oh yeah by the way

BRO is hard town

Then after that, I like Varsoon v2.0 Stevie

Those are my two strongest town reads so far, I'm still on page 10.

King: You said that it was weird how I wasn't posting much. So were you nullreading or scumreading me at that time
Rift Adrift: Talk to me about TIP

Town. Nacho has taught him some manners.

[Rift Adrift]

Town: Calcifer, Steve, TMT, Nero, TIP, truly14(and his replacement), Brian Hollywood

Null: Whoever isn't on Town or Scum

Scum: Doc, Zdenek, DOMO, Mac, TSO, Goat

Nacho my love, I am here to banish your cares and fears, speak to me

Whoops, found it.

Are these synchronized reads? Because Fery doesn't get this many reads this early.

And I think you're wrong on doc

I more or less agree with it. I probably would have 1 of the town and 1 of the scum in null, but directionally at the town and scum borders of null. Nacho and I have been working on reads off and on and it's going pretty well. Syr is catching up today too.

Talk to me about Doc. That's not the one I would have moved to null.

sigh

[Rift Adrift]

This encapsulates it.

I had him as town before, but it's weird that his play has gone on like this for so long.
What do you think of Doc Holliday?

Voted twice on low hanging but townish looking fruit without much (if any) support, and appeared to be moving in the direction of the now-fading Ank-wagon. Posting style is kinda posture-y. I haven't played with him before so I don't know iuf the posturing is typical. The votes look bad if he's an experienced and usually savvy player. I'll need meta to determine how bad.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

lol holy shit.

yeah. he needs some votes.

dammit.

[Rift Adrift]

I'd like to have a few reasons for the read(s) on truly, for me it's quite difficult with so few posts.

The reads list was Syr's. This is fery replying to you. I assume Syr saw the same thing I saw.

It's a pretty reliable town tell, a newb getting bruised feelings in a game and replacing out in a huff. Seasoned players do this sometimes, too but it usually takes a lot more pressure/assholishness/whatev.

[Rift Adrift]

Town: Calcifer, Steve, TMT, Nero, TIP, truly14(and his replacement), Brian Hollywood

Null: Whoever isn't on Town or Scum

Scum: Doc, Zdenek, DOMO, Mac, TSO, Goat

Nacho my love, I am here to banish your cares and fears, speak to me

Replying to this, btw.

Syr's case will have to wait for Syr to be around again to post.

You slipped scumward from my perspective when you answered only parts of the posts I directed your way. They weren't long posts or anything. It looked like either you weren't really reading the thread closely or you were intentionally dodging the unanswered questions.

[Rift Adrift]

Town: Calcifer, Steve, TMT, Nero, TIP, truly14(and his replacement), Brian Hollywood

Null: Whoever isn't on Town or Scum

Scum: Doc, Zdenek, DOMO, Mac, TSO, Goat

Nacho my love, I am here to banish your cares and fears, speak to me

Replying to this, btw.

Syr's case will have to wait for Syr to be around again to post.

You slipped scumward from my perspective when you answered only parts of the posts I directed your way. They weren't long posts or anything. It looked like either you weren't really reading the thread closely or you were intentionally dodging the unanswered questions.

So instead of then quoting the questions I missed for me, you said nothing and silently added me to the scumpile?

At first, no. I re-asked. When it became a pattern it put me to mind of the reasons why scum players sometimes don't read the thread as closely as town players do. And why scum players sometimes prefer to let questions slide into oblivion rather than answer them.

weak

If you are town, then do town things. I will notice.

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer
Are you Town
Just tell me now
Also, who should I vote

Yes. Vote Doc Holliday with me while we wait for Syryana to get back.

This. Also, TIP's post, but I can't multiquote that easily atm.

Who's "they"?

And why do you think Metal Sonic is more scummy than Doc Holliday?

answered the first question.

"They" as in the people who said it was a bad case? Practically half the game.

..perhaps the case wasn't fully damning. However! Its coreprinciples were correct!

*stands down from stage*

Re-asked/re-framed.

"They" as in the people who said it was a bad case? Practically half the game.

..perhaps the case wasn't fully damning. However! Its coreprinciples were correct!

*stands down from stage*

and...your vote is on MS instead of Doc Holliday because _____?

I misfiled this one under "oh duh tell the person you are pressure voting that it's a pressure vote so they stop giving a fuck" instead of "answered my question".

"They" as in the people who said it was a bad case? Practically half the game.

..perhaps the case wasn't fully damning. However! Its coreprinciples were correct!

*stands down from stage*

and...your vote is on MS instead of Doc Holliday because _____?

I'm leaving it there to pressure MS to actually do shit. So far, it's worked.

At least, I think this is the game he started posting in.

I'll bring this up with Syr when we synch up again.

[Rift Adrift]

Why's that?

Do you find my read peculiar or disagreeable? What's your read on BRO?

Fery, you haven't town read me yet.

I told Syr it was self evident last night.

BTW he <3ed your Zdenek vote.

[Rift Adrift]

orc, is ff the kind of person to go trawling through old games when scum to gain town cred? Because that's the basis of my town read on this slot.

I do less trawling these days than I did when I first started playing here. I used to meta nearly every player in the game. But, I will go through the motions as scum because I've had some spectacular finds when trawling as town.

[Rift Adrift]

Experiential meta is the basis of my thinking BRO isn't scum. In our first game together my read was null/scum on day 1. IIRC I called out for more day 2 scrutiny on him and another player in my last minute hammervote post. His play has become less ambiguous since that game. Nacho gave him some great postgame feedback.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27639

[Rift Adrift]

Thanks.

But since we're on the subject I'm a bit surprised I'm still being townread so easily despite said game.

Should I be a bit worried

TBH I have reason to be much more leery of both you and Nacho than I have in the past. I probably won't town read you in the middle of RVS ever again. What I have to judge right now isn't RVS, though.

I do have some paranoia that Nacho is able to anticipate what I'll find scummy in posts and why. The Ank post 41 thing is a case in point. Should have cemented a town read. Instead I keep looking back at that and wondering. In the buzzword bingo game he p much proved he reads my mind.

[Rift Adrift]

I can't read him at the moment, but I don't want to kill him off for that alone. I prefer to lynch people I'm reading as scum.

Check out the BSG micro game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=26883

Orcinus seriously considers PL for players he doesn't think he'll be able to read with more game time.

Orcinus have you played with TiP? There are people in this game who have been able to accurately read him, including Nacho, Syr and me. Probably others as well, but I know we have.

[Rift Adrift]

Serene. Should I assume that one of you has experience with Mastin/Nacho?

Indeed, and in the name of restoring unity and harmony I will:

VOTE: Calcifer

Could you elaborate, please?

[Rift Adrift]

I dunno if TIP is scum or not

I want to policy lynch dramonic, not TIP. Talk to me about that fery.

My opinion of policy lynches hasn't changed much.

I have zero experiential meta on dramonic. What about you?

I haven't done a meta dive yet. Will find some time for one tonight.

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer actually went along with the bone-headed idea of supplying 4 players for some insane lynch pool.

TheIrishPope
BROseidon
Nero
Zdenek

VOTE: TheIrishPope.

Then voted a townie.

I want to hang this scummy thing in the temple of all that is sacred.

Interesting.

[Rift Adrift]

I dunno if TIP is scum or not

I want to policy lynch dramonic, not TIP. Talk to me about that fery.

My opinion of policy lynches hasn't changed much.

I have zero experiential meta on dramonic. What about you?

I haven't done a meta dive yet. Will find some time for one tonight.

League of Legends game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26305 (sorry can't get an iso link to work). dramonic was town. The difference in content and seriousness between this game and that one is pretty dramatic. Nacho played that game, so I'd like to hear his thoughts.

Gay Mafia II game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4531749. dramonic was town in this game, too. A little more goofiness than the League of Legends game, but it looks like more content than this game.

Experimental Role Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21773. paydirt, I think. dramonic was scum.

gonna have a talk with Syryana.

[Rift Adrift]

Cabd, did you do meta research on dramonic for this game?

[Rift Adrift]

As someone who was in LoL mafia, I'm not really convinced about Dram-meta in that case. Most of his content in that game was more on the setup than actual reads and other things. Honestly, he might have done exactly the same thing he's doing here if LoL mafia didn't start off with something he had strong feelings against.

Yay tablet posting.

Yeah I noticed that there was a set-up argument on day 1 of the LoL game. I think the Gay II game is probably a better baseline for his town game. Did you look at the other two games? What are your thoughts on them?

[Rift Adrift]

VOTE: calcifer

elaborate?

[Rift Adrift]

Might be a hydra effect but I think this is nacho's scum game

And you know how I read hydras

What aspects of his play look scummy to you? Right now, what I have is some free-floating unease.

[Rift Adrift]

Granted, I kinda forgot I gave a read on Krab and therefore stated I didn't give any reads so I'm guilty as charged there and contradicted myself. Reason for the read in case anybody cares; He stood out extremely town to me in this game because if you look at the Maestro newbie newbie game he was being quite aggressive while he's more careful and gives more time to his posts and reads.

Defence is a decent weapon, but I seem to have used it wrong.

I just want to point out that playing as a hydra tends to make it more difficult to play aggressively, if what you mean by aggressive play is being proactive, putting timely votes down, etc. It's not impossible, and it gets easier with more games played as partners. The timing of synch-ups and in-hydra discussions affects the timing of decisive in-thread activities.

[Rift Adrift]

I thought he was town because his buddying with ffreyllt of Rift Adrift felt alienating, so I figured that he probably wouldn't want to do that as scum.
Maybe I'm just crazy.

Felt alienating?

Also, he absolutely needs to buddy me, or endure me buddying him or I will become paranoid as fuck instead of just moderately paranoid.

In the last game Nacho and I played (which ended about the time this game started) I was a hydra with buldermar. I and a couple other players (orcinus who had to replace out, and Human Destroyer) all thought he was scum almost from the start of that game. Although I was able to firm up my read for myself/buldermar I did not get enough traction to get him lynched. I put him on the back burner and went after his scumbuddy (mastin2 as it happens) instead.

Nacho got off to a bad start in that game or I probably wouldn't have spotted him so early.

I don't think he'll let that happen again.

In this game, he's doing all the right things to make me feel warm and fuzzy about him being town and putting together a town core and stuff. But I know that he knows those are the things to do now.

Also, town reads do not automatically a town core make. It could be lack of time to make that happen.

The game I am talking about: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28645

[Rift Adrift]

Ooh how could I forget???? Syr also spotted him as scum in that game. Hard to believe we couldn't scrounge up 5 votes

[Rift Adrift]

Rift,

Also, he absolutely needs to buddy me, or endure me buddying him or I will become paranoid as fuck instead of just moderately paranoid.

Calcifer has entered the thread-not as an uninformed townie-but as one who knows more.

That burden comes through in his post, and he speaks like someone with a plan.

doesn't worry you?

Yes and no. Town players make plans too. Or some do. Something on the order of figure out who is scum and lynch them, while figuring out who is town so you can work with them to identify other town and find other scum. If he's town, his plans and the Rift plans (such as they are) will have a lot of points of intersection. If he's not town, then our plans will still have points of intersection, but he will be looking for potential chasms and weak spots in town's infrastructure.

[Rift Adrift]

Dear Orci: Your read on Shadi is wrong

Sincerely, Cabd

No but seriously, this is his town meta, my goodness. It’s blindingly obvious. Go metadive him.

no

I'm leaning a little town.

[Rift Adrift]

On a scale of Stevie to Nero, what end is the towncred I get for voting Stevie at?

Why would you even ask about your towncred?

[Rift Adrift]

Exactly.

Then what prompted your question?

[Rift Adrift]

What do you think of Shadi?

I like that you responded to that post with a tangent that leads directly to one of the big questions currently on the table.

Leaning town.

Could be some residual guilt involved. I replaced out of a game over an issue with the mod. Was so pissed I didn't post an update on my reads, and left him to the tender mercies of kuribo who eventually replaced into my slot.

But, despite his stance in that game, which does ring all sorts of objective-scum bells, I got a sense of town motivation out of it all eventually.

This game has more noise and he's being attacked from more directions, which makes it a little harder to tease out the motivation from his posts, so my town read is tentative.


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28496

[Rift Adrift]

You're reading Shadi as town because of a sheeplike manner wrt forming reads?

You're reading Shadi as town because of a sheeplike manner wrt forming reads?

[Rift Adrift]

For me, it's his (Shadi) want to form his reads with other reads. Not in a "buddying" sort of manner, but in a sheep like manner.

I was trying to quote this, and reflect it back to see if i understood it.

Are you reading Shadi as town?

[Rift Adrift]

@Mod

Sorry. Posted from my OTHER profile by mistake.

@Shadi

Dramonic
ProHawk
Serene
The Goat (or this slot since it will soon be replaced)
Ankamis
Domo

-Fenix

What is this?

[Rift Adrift]

I played part of day 1 with Shadi in a micro game, Goonies Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28496

Orcinus and I were the Selkies hydra in that game. We started out thinking Shadi was scum, but I changed my mind partway through day 1. His play style is different and it comes off as scummy to me at first blush. It took a while for the town motivation to show through.

At one point, another player was pushing for either Shadi or me to be lynched. Shadi could have easily tweaked his read slightly (he didn't have me as a strong town read) and gone along with that. Instead, he pushed back and said that by the guy's logic we were both reasonable lynches.

Here's a key post:

No.

You don't understand why if you were Town your statement that you'd rather be lynched than saved for being a noob is anti-Town? Fine. I'll explain. Your first job, as Town, is to survive [over-generalization but true from the 500 foot perspective]. Incidentally, this is why I don't believe in the "survivalistic" tell. By surviving, you are keeping the numbers in Town's favor. So if you are Town, it shouldn't matter why someone thinks you are Town as long as they are reading you as Town.

People have different opportunities and I believe they are all valid, my friend.

As a townie you are obliged to stay alive because unlike everyone else you're the only one who's confirmed town and therefore already doing your job by preventin' parity. However, if there are no leads then what are you supposed to do? Indeed, scumhunt. Tunnel, throw a barrage of attacks onto players; preferably people who have slipped or haven't talked a lot. So you can get to the roots of why that's the case

As scum you are also obliged to stay alive to prevent villagers from staying alive and reaching parity. However, a scum's main job would obviously be to be his pro town self IN ORDER TO STAY ALIVE.

So, we agree that no matter what you are, your wincon is to stay alive? So how is it more scummy to not care about dying as scum than villager? Sorry, I believe this logic is flawed.

The less information you have from someone the more of a target they are, the more you know someone the closer to the truth you can get.

The less information you have from someone, the less information you have after their flip. You simply don't lynch lurkers on day 1. I'm not going to get into all the numerous reasons a Townie will be less active on day 1 but believe me when I say there are far more reasons for a Townie to be less active on Day 1 than a scum. This is especially true in a game where there is no strong leadership and no polarizing activity on the table yet.

Point taken, the more information you have on a target the more you get out of the flip but that doesn't erase my past arguments. Instead of keepin' the lurkers lurking and giving them the chance to hit off cheaply why not get rid of them early on in the game? Or do you suggest that only happens after R2 if you're still clueless there?

People work much better under pressure

Pressure is L-2 with a threat to put someone at L-1. Putting someone at L-1 and then stating "but don't hammer" is the same as saying "go ahead and hammer" because you created that opportunity. This looks to me like scum setting up a mislynch to L-1 and hoping a Townie will just jump on and hammer either by accident or through flawed logic. Sets up the next day nicely as you grill the hammer about why THEY quick lynched. If you put someone at L-1 you better be equally prepared to be the hammer. Your "excuse" will not protect you. Frankly, if the lynch had gone through and he flipped Town I would have focused on you more than the hammer.

That's fair enough, I guess we differ in priorities then. I would have made a huge walls of attacks on the user who did it. It was a trap, and I made it deadly obvious that it'd be stupid to hammer. I'm sorry I don't see the pressuring level of L-2 the same as L-1 it's much more intense.

Well, not sure if I should comment on this one. Just prepare for disappointment

Are you saying I have it wrong and Empking is your buddy? I WOULD be disappointed.

No, you'd be disappointed in the result of lynching me. Saying that is obvious and needless to say hence the "I'm not sure if I should comment".

I'm likin' your read post, btw

That's because it was a good post. Buddying me does not buy you Town points. Ditto for this post:

It's good to see you posting, yates.

... I was just giving you a thumbs up for actually being active unlike before. An active game is much funnier and you get a lot more reads. It's what you're providin'; I'm not trying to buddy you.

I'm going to vote for one of you. Tell me why it shouldn't be you OR why it should be the other guy. It looks like FuDuz will be sheeping me so consider my vote like a double vote. Go.

I don't think I'm a much worse or better candidate than Seal, he's doing pretty well. I'm not sure what to say here really, sorry. At least not any more than what other people have already stated about him, includin' yourself.

I liked that he stuck to his approach and didn't flail when Yates became active and started pressuring both of us.

Here's another post, from after I replaced out. He's interacting with what turned out to be a scum player in this one.

I'm all caught up.

Yates, get back over here. Selkies is scum I guarantee it. Also please don't replace out, part of the reason I joined was cause I saw your name. ^^

Shadi/Torcinator are town though. They don't care about how their posts come off and its obvious as hell. The real-life updates from Torc are hilariously town. Shadi getting pissy about being called a noob is too. Scum way more often than not will fall back on the newb card. Shadi is doing the opposite, lol. Also Selkies is aggressively trying to ML that slot.

Fu feels town and I doubt that Fu and Yates are scum since they seem to share scum selkies reads by and large.

Town-Motivated Posters

Torcinator
Shadi
FuDuzn

Probable Town

Yates
Aafter
Empking

Doofenshmirtz Evil, Incoporaaaateeeed

Selkies

PoE Scum?

RachMarie

@RM: Could you summarize your reads for me?

Basically I'm going to be incredibly disappointed in all of you if someone other than selkies is lynched today. Sucks for Doc Holiday, but its a scum slot. A lot of my opinions are based on this slot being scum and I really am not ok with lynching anyone else until I see this mafia flip.

Your reason on some of your reads? Rach and Sel (you said that Sel is trying to ML that slot, ML means?) and what about Rach did I miss a post?

I know I'm constantly digging my own grave by saying this but I wouldn't act different to that whether I'm scum or town. I don't intend to use my meta as an advantage to trick or use players with or against me. It's like allowing private messages between players; why let all matters out of this thread count as matters?

Also it's nice with a reads post

You seem SO sure though AP what are you gonna do iffen on the off chance he flps town? Not saying he will just saying IF?

Cause you may be missing the bigger picture because of your tunneling

Yes, I feel like questioning your confidence as well. It would be hard to keep up if 1-2 of them flip villager.

I'm seeing the same open engagement and push-back in this game, but the number of antagonists is much higher due to the game size. He's been under a lot of scrutiny and IMO has maintained an open and engaged presence through it all.

Compare that to some of the other players who have picked up a few votes.

[Rift Adrift]

Shadi, in the interest of saving everybody time, can you tell me which of those offsite games you were scum in?

Also rift, you beat me to goonies, I was going there next.

You might focus on different stuff since you didn't play that one.

[Rift Adrift]

Ok yeah mostly the same conclusion, with a side helping of "holy shit how did post 67 not get torc speedlynched?"

He came off like a 12 yo kid. How can you speedlynch that?

[Rift Adrift]

@Orcinus

What do you think of BulbaFenix?

Are you ignoring my opinion of Shadi's alignment?

[Rift Adrift]

@Orcinus

What do you think of BulbaFenix?

Are you ignoring my opinion of Shadi's alignment?

Not really thinking about them right now

Your areas of focus kinda worry me.

And no I'm not ignoring it, and if you'd like I'll acknowledge its existence right now

So does this.

[Rift Adrift]

What 'fishy wagons'

The ones on TIP and Calcifer and your jump on Shadi.

Lold @ ur read on me Bulba sounds confused.

It is.

He's being anti-town but so anti-town that he could just be town.

I dislike the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy. Just so ya know.

How cute. Bulba starts calling us scum after the site deleted our post where i referred to him as scum.

My 3DS was unable to connect to the site during the weekend, and obviously a lot of things that I cannot see or respond to were lost. It's hard to react to something that does not exist.

Bulba is almost confirmed scum in the eyes of head #2


Go read Macs posts in that Goonies scum QT and tell me what sticks out


go ahead. i'll wait here.

Please read Mac's handful of quotes in this game and give me your thoughts. Better yet, give me your thoughts on our posts so far this game.

go ahead. I'll wait here.

And the whole thing about "why are they worried about getting lynched" is taking a throwaway joke a little too seriously. I've been asked to tell you that scum would be too afraid to NK that which is unknown to them.

You're seriously suggesting that scum would want to take the risk of leaving an unknown factor in play? Are you high?

I'm not dead-weight, I just don't put any faith in Day 1.

That's too bad. There tends to be a lot of good stuff d1.

dire. i made a 2000 word post summarising my reads, pity the server got rid of them.

You can always make yourself useful and retype it. I'll wait.

Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning.

Well screw you bud.

SO wait... bad like scum bad?

Bad like idiotic bad?

Bad like you are scum and can't ignore my post so must comment and take the side of the majority?

or

Bad like baaaad man. That idea rocks?

My meaning was obvious given the context. However, since you lack the basic reading comprehension necessary, I'll reiterate: Incredibly scummy bad and must be lynched ASAP. Do you really want to get into a game of semantics with the writer?

They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Humm... I think I have been accused of this before... yeah!

Using someone else's meta against me does not impress me in the slightest. Do you actually want to discuss my point, or are you simply wasting my time?

It's interesting that you're insinuating that Crabd is scum via meta when you haven't even looked up his meta.

Your assumption here makes

you

look the fool. It's bad and you should feel bad.

What was your point then? Saying I'm stupid does absolutely nothing if you don't explain your original premise. Or was the point here simply to discredit me?

Your subtlety here is almost admirable. You really want that BRO mislynch, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later should BRO flip town.

I wasn't being subtle

You weren't. Ok, I now know what your shouting voice looks like.

but ok... I don't often take credit for others ideas ; do you?

Saying that it was somebody else's idea gave you an out. It's not exactly like "BROseidon needs more attention paid to him" is such an original idea anyway...

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that?

Yes, because "should" indicates my obvious knowledge of his alignment.

Because scum would never genuinely hunt-scum. Amirite? Scum could never not do something scummy.

That's misrepresenting my position. There's a difference between how town scum hunts and how scum "scum hunts", mainly the fact that scum is pretending to do so while town is genuine in their pursuits. As such, there should be ways to tell the 2 apart. I get the distinct impression that BRO is genuine in his attempts to find scum, and it shows in how he pursues suspects and types his posts.

Also, the only way scum would ever genuinely scum hunt would be if this was multi-ball and they were searching for another scum team. Are you suggesting that this is the case?

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

Unvote

Vote Dramonic

-Bulba

This is a confusing post.

[Rift Adrift]

What about it do you find confusing?

The fact that you(?) voted dramonic at the end of all that disputation with ProHawke. Trajectory fail.

[Rift Adrift]

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

Why dramonic over Stevie?

[Rift Adrift]

why is Stevie scum?

I don't think he is.

Bulba does, though. Hence my question.

[Rift Adrift]

I've been looking forward to playing with you, Kuribo.

[Rift Adrift]

I've been looking forward to playing with you, Kuribo.

SHUT YOUR FUCKING WHORE MOUTH

Still town reading you. Bulba, not so much.

[Rift Adrift]

Are you in agreement with your other heads about Calcifer/Nacho?

[Rift Adrift]

Are you in agreement with your other heads about Calcifer/Nacho?

I really wasn't kidding when I said I haven't read anything up to our replace in


Both heads have extensive experience with Nacho though.

I wish I knew how good they actually are at catching him out.

On day 1.

[Rift Adrift]

My other head has a scum read on your slot, Bulba, and it's based on Mac's posting here in this thread compared to his town and scum meta. Mac plays more aggressively as town.

From what I've seen, he kinda warms up to a more aggressive level over the course of the day as he finds things to sink his teeth into, and doesn't necessarily start out of the blocks that way. For me his posting wasn't enough for a sure read. I went from town to leaning scum, though I'm sure Syr had a lot to do with my read changing.

That goonies game, where he replaced out, I was leaning scum prior to his (and my) being replaced.

You/Fenix haven't dug out of the Mac scum read in this game.

[Rift Adrift]

I'm sorry. I drowned some ceremonial kittens in the Ganges and I'm feeling better.

VOTE: Stevie

#2?

[Rift Adrift]

P-edit: Rift, what did you think about Mac's TMT case? I thought it was actually pretty good, and I'm actually sorry that he wasn't able to keep on pushing it. Also, you had him as a town read earlier in the game. I can understand the read changing due to him not posting, but why was your slot convinced Mac was town near the beginning of the day?

Like I said, I have this idea that there's a ramp-up to his town game. The TMT case was the main reason I agreed with Nacho when he suggested Mac was town iirc.

Syr disagrees, and I think he has more games with Mac than I do. I have two completed games with Mac (including the one where we both replaced out), and both are scum games. I have a town-Mac model, but it hasn't been tested to completiion.

[Rift Adrift]

@Rift: Talk to me about Orcinus.

-Bulba

He's giving off vibes suggesting he doesn't trust that my alignment is town, and is therefore discounting my reads (shadi read in particular). Which is cool.

But, he's not trying to sort me or interact much with me. Which worries me a bit. There's an interaction on the table for when he's back in the thread.

[Rift Adrift]

Thoughts on the Dramonic wagon? You seemed to question it.

-Bulba

What I questioned was your reason for voting dramonic over others in your scumpile, given your viable lynch argument. And I questioned that you have engaged minimally with dramonic and not built a whole lot of case compared to your case on ProHawk.

dramonic is in my scumpile, but I'm weighing Nacho's comment that it could take more time to sort him. And he's not the scummiest looking player in my scum pile. I'm not ready to give up and go for a less scummy looking player at this point. I feel like Doc Holliday is benefiting from disappearing after picking up some votes, and I don't like to see that.

[Rift Adrift]

Bulba can join the town pile for now for 832. His reads seem genuine, like they come from reading the thread instead of just sheeping consensus.

Don't be too complacent about bulba. My first game with him. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27049 Night kill cardflips weren't revealed, so town didn't know when we'd hit our last possible day to pull out a win.

He won at endgame as SK. He was thought to be town by most players, including the mafia.

[Rift Adrift]

This is not even remotely interaction, orcinus.

I think I understand my hydra partner's thought process enough to let her do her own thing. I'll figure out her alignment eventually.

Also, ftr I was not even remotely offended by serene #2's comment in my direction.

[Rift Adrift]

This is not even remotely interaction, orcinus.

I think I understand my hydra partner's thought process

enough to let her do her own thing

. I'll figure out her alignment eventually.

Bolded part means that I don't have a lot of interaction planned with you.

Why is something worrying you

Yeah, you are. You don't generally leave players be when you aren't sure of their alignment.

How are you planning to figure my alignment out?

[Rift Adrift]

by watching what you do

i know how you work so

I'm glad somebody does.

/The other head of Calcifer.
You, uh, don't wanna know how far back I am.

Haven't been keeping up, and Nacho hasn't been yelling at me for my opinion that much, so kinda been putting this game off.

Don't worry, will get back into it. Now, consider me to be a replacement who just came in and has no clue what's going on in the game. (Not nearly as inaccurate as you'd think. ) Give me a summary of what's gone on in these 40 pages.

Doc Holliday doesn't have nearly enough votes. You guys should try talking that bandwagon up.

[Rift Adrift]

Rift probably town but might be buddying

Rift would really like to get a town bloc formed but it's like herding a bunch of fucking cats.

[Rift Adrift]

GREAT KARMIC VIBRATIONS

orcinus_theoriginal

How cute. Bulba starts calling us scum after the site deleted our post where i referred to him as scum.

VOTE: serene

bulba stevie are scum maybe with orc

Congratufuckinglations you noticed one of my jeads thought you were town four hundred posts ago

your hop onto a pointless bandwagon is either scummy as fuck or batshit bad town play

Are you three synching up frequently? at all?

I actually find the extreme pushes for individual reads RIGHT NOW NO EXCUSES to be kinda opportunistic. I'm mostly concerned about bulbafenrix doing this yesterday.

[Rift Adrift]

Town blocks are hard, let's go shopping

How do you like a townblock of me/you/Calcifer/Orc/Bulba/TIP/Zdenek/Nero/MS, assuming we can get everyone in that group to agree? Order is relative strength of reads from most to least, with the first four all being roughly equal.

too much of a split opinion on stevie for this to be viable IMO. The problem is not lack of leaning-town reads.

[Rift Adrift]

How does the split opinion on Stevie make it not viable?

I don't see that group agreeing on a day 1 lynch atm.

[Rift Adrift]

if you guys get yourselves forced replaced I'll be seriously pissed.

[Rift Adrift]

No.

[Rift Adrift]

No.

he's not town, though

I didn't like the way bulba went after them.

[Rift Adrift]

No.

he's not town, though

I didn't like the way bulba went after them.

so they're town because somebody made attacked them in a bad way?

come on

They are not likely to be on the hypothetical scum team with the person who attacked them. I had them leaning slightly town prior to that.

[Rift Adrift]

that reasoning works for micros

not so solid for large games

"leaning slightly town" reasons are mostly independent of game size.

I won't be voting serene unless I have a genuine scum read on the slot. There are other players who bother me a hell of a lot more than serene does.

p-edit this is not an association, but I've found reasons in recent games to reconsider ignoring those lines of thought. The Bingo game would be an example.

[Rift Adrift]

Yeah that line of thought I think I actually explained to you a while back. But it doesn't work for day 1 of a large game.

How can I help you arrive at a genuine scum read on the slot

Yes but kuribo-head is not town. Look at the inconsistencies beneath his 'anger' (which i was quite frankly unimpressed by)

Syr thinks it may not be kuribo. I'm leaning otherwise. The inconsistencies look like disorganized hydra to me right now.

I'll be rereading the last few pages and discussing them with Syr sometime today, hopefully.

[Rift Adrift]

cool

it's kuribo. i've been googling some phrases he's used on MS and the one username that keeps popping up is kuribo

just goes to show how original he is

room temperature IQ

There is a phrase we've been looking for that we haven't seen.

[Rift Adrift]

Orcinus, Syr is thinking intentional parody/masquerade.

Like I said, I'm leaning toward it being kuribo, but there are some phrase variations that haven't turned up.

[Rift Adrift]

Zdenek what do you think of Serene?

What is your current opinion of the slot?

[Rift Adrift]

I am currently voting for it.

And your case is?

[Rift Adrift]

More importantly, why the fuck has everyone jumped on me? <_<

I dunno, might have something to do with the fact you haven't done fuckall since RVS?

[Rift Adrift]

Mason claims?

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BROseidon

If there is another mason in the dramonic/serene conclave, kindly keep your fucking mouth shut.

[Rift Adrift]

What would be the reason for this if the play is an imitation of kuribo's scum play?

AFAIK it is not an imitation of kuribo's scum play.

If it is an imitation, it's an imitation of his game persona which is in large part not connected to his win condition in a particular game.

Why imitate? The serene hydra has made it clear they want anonymity. Imitating other players with distinctive play styles would be one way to further that goal.

I am not convinced it's an imitation. I kinda think it is kuribo, and I'm happy about it if it is him because I enjoyed watching him play in the game where he replaced me and added him to the list of players I'll keep an eye out for when looking at sign-ups.

My only complaint about his replacing me was that he helped lynch one of my town reads on day 1.

[Rift Adrift]

Our vote is on Doc Hollday.

[Rift Adrift]

Rift probably town but might be buddying

Rift would really like to get a town bloc formed but it's like herding a bunch of fucking cats.

Then give us a specific target. You're town enough to do that at least as far as I'm concerned.

Our vote is on Doc Hollday.

Syr pointed out to me last night that he had moved our vote to BRO prior to my posting this.

His reason for the vote change was the blatant rolefishing BRO did after the serene mason claim and dramonic confirmation. And he mentioned a jobpick game where BRO did not rolefish at all, even though that was not a normal game.

Pretty damning, but tbh I don't have the normal roles etched on prefrontal cortex and I would have asked if their alignments had been mod-confirmed. But, I have played a lot of mafia games in environments where masons with mixed alignments are not unusual.

It seems that Syr's alarm over BRO's rolefishing is not widely shared.

[Rift Adrift]

Well I've skimmed but I'm hardly up to date. I see we have a mason claim from serene, and dramonic pretty much confirms this next post... this puts serene and dramonic firmly in town camp for obvious reasons. Lot's of noise from #2, I'd reached the point where I wasn't reading his posts but I'm bastard well going to have to ISO him now, and ofc dram, since we can be close to certain of their alignment.

If anyone has voted for both serene and dramonic, then we should look at them as potential lynch

. The MOD's ISO was inconclusive, I couldn't find anyone at a glance who has voted for both, I'll have a better look later.

This would be a stupid reason to lynch someone.

[Rift Adrift]

How is it rolefishing to ask for a number from the masons? I didn't ask for more masons to claim, I asked how many masons there are. There is a very clear town-motivation for having a count on how many masons there are.

Also jobpick is still going on, so can we not talk about it (even though I'm dead in it). A lot of the day 1 jobpick stuff was very circumstantial and I don't want the games effecting one another while they are both in progress.

Apologies. I wasn't aware it was an ongoing.

Re the mason count thing, I'm not convinced our vote is in the best possible place at the moment.

It would be good for Nacho to get involved in this game again.

[Rift Adrift]

I am curious to know if there's any more masons. But from a tactical point of view, I'd rather not know today, because keeping scum in the dark in that respect is better than feeding my curiosity.

If scum do not know how many masons there are, they won't fakeclaim mason, so I'm not sure why BRO asking how many masons there are can be considered as a counter to scum fakeclaims. On the contrary, knowing how many there are tells scum if there's anything to gain or not from fakeclaiming mason.

If both masons die tonight (highly unlikely but yeah it's possible), then we deal with anyone who claims to be a 3rd and final mason if and when it happens. We see if it makes sense for them to be a mason with serene and dram. It's not a concern, because it's a remote chance that both masons die tonight, and someone later claims to be a 3rd, with no 4th to confirm. It's much better imo to keep scum guessing. If they don't know how many masons there are, they can't make an optimal decision on who to NK tonight, because they'll be torn between trimming down the mason group, and hunting other PRs.

Yeah I can see more scum motivation than town for asking how many masons there are.

First post from you guys that has unequivocally hit me as town-motivated. Recalibrating.

[Rift Adrift]

Our vote is on Doc Hollday.

Umm, no it isn't.

Or do you mean in a more 'This is where a town block should vote' sense?

I assume you found my later post explaining the current vote.

Syr and I will discuss whether and where to move that vote tonight I hope.

[Rift Adrift]

I like all three of the serenes, and I approve of their bulba vote. The stevie vote, not so much.

Serenes. Sounds like a motown girl band.

[Rift Adrift]

HEY RIFT I LIEK THE CUT OF YORU JIB

BUT YOUR VOTE

ITS

IN A VERY NONBULBA PLACE RIGHT NOW

SO WHERES YUOR MONEY OR YOUR MOUTH SON

Our vote will be moving tonight. We're giving someone a little time to salvage their read atm.

[Rift Adrift]

Leaning town.

Could be some residual guilt involved. I replaced out of a game over an issue with the mod. Was so pissed I didn't post an update on my reads, and left him to the tender mercies of kuribo who eventually replaced into my slot.

But, despite his stance in that game, which does ring all sorts of objective-scum bells, I got a sense of town motivation out of it all eventually.

I just finished a newbie game with Shadi, I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that he's scum so I hope that wagon is buried in the ground by now.

don't have time to catch up now but I have time for this!

Vote: BulbaFenix

This is like a spooky, ethereal Beetlejuice summons.

Syr and I were only minutes ago discussing on gchat whether to put a vote on your absent self or to vote Bulba.

When do you expect to be able to catch up?

[Rift Adrift]

Oh, and VOTE: BulbaFenex

[Rift Adrift]

@Shadi that was Nacho. The other head is mastin2.

[Rift Adrift]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BULBA

SERENITY NOW

SERENITY NOW

AHEHAHAHAHAHAH

ALL ABOARD THE DEATH MOTHAFUCKIN TRAIN

[Rift Adrift]

that's not mastin.

[Rift Adrift]

perceptive.

[Rift Adrift]

that's not mastin.

Could you reassure me that orc is town? It worries me that the towniest thing he's done so far is a shitty deathtunnel.

I have a mixed read on orcinus. There are a couple of reasons going back to one of our earliest games that result in the mix leaning a little town.

[Rift Adrift]

Also, I am pretty sure you picked up on the point in the thread where I decided to go with that.

[Rift Adrift]

So, Nacho recommended me not bothering to read the whole thread and to just get the gist of the happenings right now.

What I got from the last five pages is...not much. Metal Sonic looks town, Rift obviously looks town, too.

Selkies

orcinus might be scum (or not, now that I know it's him, but worth looking into further). Ankamius looks like scum to me, too.
Granted, both of these are partially reliant on BulbaFenix being scum. Though I certainly sorta lean that way, it's far from solid, regrettably.

Stubbs looks town, too.
Granted, still need 52 and 53, and this is weak-as-hell, but it's where I stand.

I'd like to discuss the Ankamius read. I thought he looked scummy early in the game, but later put him in my townpile.

What do you see as the alignment indicators between Ankamius, orcinus and Bulbafenix?

I agree with you on Stubbs. Once I realized how new to the site and mafia he is, his play snapped into focus.

Agree re MS, too.

[Rift Adrift]

I did a double take over the Selkies post. thought I was in the wrong thread for a moment. I doubt orcinus would hard-defend a scumbuddy that hard, though.

(I'm the other half of Selkies)

ISO Ankamius. He has a way of phrasing things that pings. I was ready to string him up over post 41 (think it was 41). But, town motivation seems more clear in other posts.

[Rift Adrift]

I have strong townreads on you and Rift. DOMO is major scumhunting, which makes him a townread. We're town. If Serene is town, that would make every hydra in this game town, and that possibility intrigues and excites me, if only for the reason that it would allow for the possibility of a hydra town bloc. And I find that idea to be awesome.

You missed a hydra.

That was me.

jesus this could get messy.

[Rift Adrift]

I have strong townreads on you and Rift. DOMO is major scumhunting, which makes him a townread. We're town. If Serene is town, that would make every hydra in this game town, and that possibility intrigues and excites me, if only for the reason that it would allow for the possibility of a hydra town bloc. And I find that idea to be awesome.

You missed a hydra.

That was me.

jesus this could get messy.

To be fair, king and I have been pretty behind for a bit.
Rift, catching up is making my spooked out by orci here. You're pretty damn good at reading him though, so you're confident saying hes town for now?

I would call it a guarded slight leaning toward town. He spooked me out, too, but I have a ton of experiential meta with him and some of that meta suggests town.

[Rift Adrift]

We're in early D1, and nothing is happening, and me vote hopping isn't changing anything
And

now I'm confirmed town

, so that's good

You evidently don't know what the term means.

[Rift Adrift]

Don't be jelly

You have picked up some town reads, and some players have even gone to bat for you. That does not equate to confirmed town.

[Rift Adrift]

But will you guys lynch me? Nuh uh
Because you know I'm more likely to be Town this game

Never say never, especially in mafia.

[Rift Adrift]

Calcifer has given me the scum shivers since I replaced in, but these most recent posts have sealed the deal:

Maybe across scum teams. They probably aren't all buddies.

TMT is trying to get calcifer to do his dirty work and defend his buddy.

If this game turns out to be multiscum, we're speed-lynching Zdenek.

There's this little fake out about multiscum vs. singlescum, followed by sowing the seeds of a witch-hunt on a townie based on a multiscum theory (urgh what? you're right, it makes no sense whatsoever = scum). Either the game is singlescum and this is safe distancing (I doubt it) or Calcifer knows the game is multiscum and wants a stupid reason to go after a townie.

So, Nacho recommended me not bothering to read the whole thread and to just get the gist of the happenings right now.

What I got from the last five pages is...not much. Metal Sonic looks town, Rift obviously looks town, too.

Selkies

orcinus might be scum (or not, now that I know it's him, but worth looking into further). Ankamius looks like scum to me, too.
Granted, both of these are partially reliant on BulbaFenix being scum. Though I certainly sorta lean that way, it's far from solid, regrettably.

Stubbs looks town, too.
Granted, still need 52 and 53, and this is weak-as-hell, but it's where I stand.

I mean - look at the above post, it's nothing but relativist scumtells. So-and-so MAY BE scum, but only if that-other-one is town, but partially leaning on Bozo-the-clown being SK.

That's top notch scum yakshit.

I am not completely at ease with the idea that Calcifr is town, but so far he's hitting the right notes in terms of what I listen for.

[Rift Adrift]

So Calcifer is unlynchable? That works, too.

VOTE: TMTOLBTWNTOF

I cannot conceive of anyone objecting to this righteous lynch.

We can't lynch all the scum on day 1. We have to pick one. Why it TMT a better lynch than bulba?

[Rift Adrift]

Orcinus have you played with Bulba before?

[Rift Adrift]

I was wondering where your certainty he's town comes from.

I've played one completed game with him. My reasons for thinking he's scum are mostly not meta reasons. Syr thinks he's scum, too.

[Rift Adrift]

No.

[Rift Adrift]

No.

i know our reads clash a lot in hydra

but this is getting ridiculous

talk to me about why you think bulba is scum

and nacho isn't

In brief, I initially read Mac as town and wound up changing my mind in part due to Mac and in part due to Syr's thoughts. Bulba's early posts pinged hard. Their push on serene looked even worse than yours did.

Much like my read on you, my read on Calcifer (which is mostly based on Nacho) is a shaky slight town.

[Rift Adrift]

Serene, it's not how I play the game.

[Rift Adrift]

The reason there are no strong bandwagons is because town movement so far has been Brownian. That needs to change.

[Rift Adrift]

Willing to lynch: Bulba, Cephrir/Doc Holliday, TMT, The Goat

[Rift Adrift]

Willing to lynch: Bulba,

Cephrir/Doc Holliday

, TMT, The Goat

Walk with me now, I will walk with you tomorrow.

Let's rattle Calcifer. Apples might fall.

Sorry, I won't vote for even a slight town read today.

[Rift Adrift]

Domo, I discounted your BRO case at the time because I had you leaning scum. That read has softened, but I was townreading BRO earlier. I'll reread your case and BRO's posts today.

[Rift Adrift]

Exactly what, might I ask, within Mac's post changed your mind?

This post I initially liked, mostly because I agreed with the reason for voting TMT, though I thought he was ignoring other, more scummy looking, stuff that was happening in the game around that time. I'll talk about why I changed my mind at the end.

stevie:

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.

can you tell me how this is scummy and how this doesn't work in reverse?

Because in the beginning of the game a good town is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. It should take more than 2 pages of fluff/RVS for you to determine that someone is a townie.

Scumhunting, on the other hand, is always encouraged.

this is a terrible post. at the beginning of the game, good town can also get reads from early posts. the fact that you are trying to discourage this in such a way is pretty anti-town.

like Rift (??) said, scumhunting and townhunting work in unison together, and make for an easier life.

there was something else that caught my eye on a brief skin of the 8 pages:

Nulls:
Orc (not enough posts yet)
Everyone Else because it’s like page 6 and several people only have RVS posts.

Krab person (cabd?) - why did you feel the need to seperate orc for not having enough posts from everyone else who don't have enough posts? I found this kinda bizarre behaviour.

ProHawk is town, despite how stupid his idea was.
TiP, BROseidon, and Stevie are all scum.

I have Zdenek, BRO, Prohawk, TiP, and maybe Stevie as town.

Wait... so one of you has Stevie as scum and one of you as town? Could you please sign?

why did you pick out Stevie here and not BRO? both in differing piles from Calcifier. also this post does nothing. as have the rest of your other two posts, letters chap.

vote TMT

TMT and possibly stevie for scum at the moment.

This post clanged in a huge way. My reaction to DOMO's catch up post was a very strong "not liking this".

k I think I really like DOMO for town because that catchup felt genuine.

Back to the first post. I started thinking about his positions on players as a whole.

- Other scummy stuff ignored
- Posted in support of what was becoming a very credible wagon on a player I wasn't scumreading while voting someone who looks scummy but wasn't getting much attention.
- Strong town read from a post that was iffy at best.

The picture this paints has two main themes: setting up a trajectory for a vote change to the stevie wagon, and an odd combiniation of perceptiveness and glossing over. Scum sometimes do this sort of thing because they know alignments. Stuff that may strike a townie as off may not draw any attention from a scum player because they know the post is coming from a town player.

[Rift Adrift]

Rift, my concerns with orc are gone.

Interesting.

[Rift Adrift]

Yeah. I may be a luddite for leaving Cephrir in my willing to lynch pile right now, but his catch up posts aren't giving me unadulterated warm fuzzies.

[Rift Adrift]

Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.

I wowed you in amnesiac? I was only around for a day. IIRC I wound up with 5 or 6 votes on me at one point, including yours.

[Rift Adrift]

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

Given the number of townreads I've managed, your lack disturbs me.

A lack of town reads is convenient for scum.

[Rift Adrift]

I then proceeded to call you obvtown for the rest of the day

Your read-flip on me kept me suspcious of you for the rest of that game day. My only real regret about that game is that I didn't try a hell of a lot harder to get serra lynched.

[Rift Adrift]

Well, I *have* some, but some of them aren't very strong.

There are also a lot of lurkers in this game.

True re the lurkers. Some of the players that came off most scummy early on have disappeared. That includes your predecessor.

[Rift Adrift]

I am curious to know if there's any more masons. But from a tactical point of view, I'd rather not know today, because keeping scum in the dark in that respect is better than feeding my curiosity.

If scum do not know how many masons there are, they won't fakeclaim mason, so I'm not sure why BRO asking how many masons there are can be considered as a counter to scum fakeclaims. On the contrary, knowing how many there are tells scum if there's anything to gain or not from fakeclaiming mason.

If both masons die tonight (highly unlikely but yeah it's possible), then we deal with anyone who claims to be a 3rd and final mason if and when it happens. We see if it makes sense for them to be a mason with serene and dram. It's not a concern, because it's a remote chance that both masons die tonight, and someone later claims to be a 3rd, with no 4th to confirm. It's much better imo to keep scum guessing. If they don't know how many masons there are, they can't make an optimal decision on who to NK tonight, because they'll be torn between trimming down the mason group, and hunting other PRs.

Yeah I can see more scum motivation than town for asking how many masons there are.

First post from you guys that has unequivocally hit me as town-motivated. Recalibrating.

I don't get it. How so?

It's a well reasoned,

town

reasoned explanation for why town doesn't need to know the number of masons today, and why leaving the uncertainty in play for scum makes town sense.

[Rift Adrift]

Nacho, was 1499 you?

[Rift Adrift]

Nacho, was 1499 you?

I was hoping you were still around to reply to this.

One of the reasons I kept Cephrir in my scumpile for much of the amnesiac game (while I was in it and afterwards) was because his posts came off as hedgy to me. Another reason was that the posts also came off as a little wordsmithed. And the final reason was his first post after day 2 started because I want to lynch cheerleading/reverse cheerleading with fire every time I see it.

[Rift Adrift]

And that is by way of saying that his reads list is not bothering me too much.

[Rift Adrift]

calcifer goes before TMT

1520 I agree with completely

Serene, can we talk about fery

Or, you could talk

to

fery.

[Rift Adrift]

You can try.

You are town reading Bulba. Why?

[Rift Adrift]

Re Cephrir, these posts

Nacho, was 1499 you?

I was hoping you were still around to reply to this.

One of the reasons I kept Cephrir in my scumpile for much of the amnesiac game (while I was in it and afterwards) was because his posts came off as hedgy to me. Another reason was that the posts also came off as a little wordsmithed. And the final reason was his first post after day 2 started because I want to lynch cheerleading/reverse cheerleading with fire every time I see it.

And that is by way of saying that his reads list is not bothering me too much.

Are me saying that my read on Cephrir softened. I really, really didn't like Doc Holliday's posts. Cephrir's catch up posts didn't move my read much. Once he caught up and started interacting directly, I could see more of what I identify as his town game (which in the amnesia game we've talked about looked pretty scummy to me.)

gah.

[Rift Adrift]

So your concerns about Mac are no longer relevant?

I will go through and pick out some of the Bulbafenix posts that pinged for me, but probably not until tomorrow. It's past midnight here.

[Rift Adrift]

Oh wait...you think I'm still scumreading DOMO?

Dude, you picked up on the post where my read changed and you're asking me that?

[Rift Adrift]

Where's the slip?

[Rift Adrift]

"Hasn't yet seen me as a confirmed scum"

hm

[Rift Adrift]

So your concerns about Mac are no longer relevant?

I will go through and pick out some of the Bulbafenix posts that pinged for me, but probably not until tomorrow. It's past midnight here.

No, I don't trust my early game reads very much

Oh wait...you think I'm still scumreading DOMO?

Dude, you picked up on the post where my read changed and you're asking me that?

no my question was to the effect of "how is DOMO only now getting town why was he scum before" like seriously

He was not in my town pile before because his catch up post really sounded off notes. I read his posts in the Posh game and they were nothing like his posts here. He didn't post enough town-sounding stuff to change my impression until that post, though I had him down as someone to review again.

Then he made that post.

[Rift Adrift]

Bulbafenix

Ok! Haihai everyone! Fenix here. Bulba will be coming tomorrow and posting his catch up and reads list for everyone to view. For now though

Unvote
Vote StevieT92

^^ Bandwagon Ho!

Caught up and have snuck onto a computer. Disappointed with Fenix, as he was supposed to help me by getting me live reads while I read through the game. Anyway, here is the official reads list and catchup post:

Town

Rift Adrift

: 1 of 2 strong town reads from when I was initially skimming the thread before we replaced in. They are actively scumhunting, and all of their posts read genuine.

Calcifer

: 2nd of the strong town reads from initial skim. Same as Calcifer, only not as strong.

King Crabd

: All of their posts read as genuine. There is no attempt at fakery here.

Ankamius

: There is some genuine thought here. I was a little nervous about his mention of LYLO in #328, but I get the sense that he's the type of player to consider that as town.

DOMO

: Not as much of a gut read as the others. They appeal to the logic part of me, and they are actively scumhunting. Everything they do comes from town motivation. Therefore, they're town.

Metal Sonic

: Trust me, he's town. I wish he'd post more, though, without me having to tunnel him to death...

Baby Spice

: What little she's posted has consisted of actual scumhunting. I'd like to see more, but I'm willing to call her town for now.

BROseidon

: Everybody who thinks he's scum needs to have their heads examined. Calling out a stupid anti-town plan is not scummy. Self-voting is not scummy (contrary to popular opinion). Heck, in Voided's Nightless Mountainous game, there were 4 self votes (including myself). Guess what? They were all town. He's doing some genuine scumhunting here. He's town. Deal with it.

Null/Town

Zdenek

: I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

TheIrishPope

: Fenix convinced me to put him more in the null section. Personally, I like him for town. I'm not sure I see the scum motivation in his posts. Regardless, he makes me laugh, so I'm not keen about lynching him anytime soon.

Null

Orcinus_theoriginal

: Not sure how to take this one. On the one hand, I like him for town, due to him actively scumhunting. On the other hand, I'm not agreeing with a lot of his reads, and he's been too eager lately to jump on some really fishy wagons. I think I'll need more time to sort this one out.

Serene

: Personally, I'd love to list this slot as town, not only because I liked the Newbie rage quit from their predecessor, but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together. However, I really do not like #646. Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK. I also do not like their push of Calcifer. The only reason they are null is because I see reasons why they could be town, and I originally wanted to put them as null/town. However, Fenix wanted to put them as scum. We compromised, hence the null.

The Goat

: Nothing much has been posted from this slot. The closest we get to anything alignment indicative is #461, which feels slightly town to me. Interested in what we get from his replacement.

TSO

: Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Nero

: Eddie likes him for town. I have a bit of a scum lean on him. However, I'm not sure if this is due to actual scumminess or a difference in playstyle. He posts similarly to TIP, but he's not doing so to be funny. He doesn't explain any of his reads, he attacks players without basis, and I'm sure I've seen him arbitrarily sheeping at points (I need to check this one out later.). At best his play is anti-town. I'm just not sure if it's actually scummy.

?Null/Scum?

Shadi1337

: To be honest, I'm beginning to like him more, so he may move up before long. I just didn't like his flail earlier, as I didn't think that it felt like town flail. Fenix and I struggled real hard on his placement. Actually, screw it, he's plain null. Fenix, we can talk about it later.

Actual Null/Scum

StubbsKVM

: Fenix and I went back and forth on this one. Admittedly, it's a gut read. I don't think that a lot of his posts feel genuine. Definitely going to watch this slot as the day progresses.

Brian Hollywood

: Fenix fought for his placement closer to the scum pile. Brian hasn't posted anything game related. All of his posts have avoided what was actually happening at the time. I also don't buy his reaction to Zdenek's fake day kill, as that gambit is common enough that Brian's reaction could be faked (I've actually seen it at least twice before, and I'm relatively new to the site.).

Scum

TMTOLBTWNTOF

: I actually agree with our predecessor on this slot, although I get the feeling that Fenix is not convinced. TMT is active lurking. What he posts appears to be content at first glance, but it is actually saying nothing of importance.

Doc Holliday

: I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

Dramonic

: His posts have contained absolutely no content. #734 feels more like knowledge than actual setup spec. He feels sure in his answer, where anybody speculating would use language that indicated that they were unsure or guessing.

ProHawk

: Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning. His later posts, though, do not feel like town. They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Going to address a few more recent posts before I go. Any questions?

-Bulba

^^ This came off to me as an amalgamation of the "feel of the thread". To the extent they went against what was emerging as consensus, it was to echo stuff that Calcifer and I were saying.

From this point on, the stuff that struck off notes to me were mostly the slapfights with serene-2 and Prohawk.

orcinus, I wonder how much your town read of bulbafenix is predicated on them picking fights with the same player you've fisticuffed with.

However, I kinda like the "yeah, so?" attitude toward their bandwagon. I don't think scum would just go on about their business in the face of votes piling up the way they did.

UNVOTE: Bulbafenix

Synch up time

[Rift Adrift]

My impression was that it went both ways and that although the trash talk was one direction, the fight picking wasn't. But, I tend to scroll past in-thread shitfests. Will recheck how that one started.