Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

[Soft-spoken]

/confirm

hi. i just woke up :sleepyface:

halfway through my first cup of coffee. yall are weird

[Soft-spoken]

holy shit page 15 fuck you guys. its my job to be the spam poster.... uhhhh. awk.

[Soft-spoken]

im only on page 5, so far most of what i see is meta-speculation from a circle-jerk that i am not a membership of, and a few clumsy posts that stood out to me

VOTE: Soft-Spoken

I don't think he actually just woke up. I think he's lying. Lying scum.

i really hope this is a joke... looks like a clumsy rvs that you tried to attach meaning too.

i had no reason to lie about waking up as scum. lying without a good reason is poor scum play... you should know by now that i am not a poor scum player

how does this setup change scumhunting in your opinion?

i thought this would be obvious. most legitimate scum-tells are invalid in this setup. multiple people have come in and acted like this isnt the case, but then i have to wonder what you think a scumtell is.

the only legitimate scum-tell that can be read into considering the circumstances of this setup... preservation motive.

based on?

-b

I'm hedging my bets!

If they don't turn out to be scum then that's good coz theyre probs town atm
If they do then it would be really funny coz team mafia etc!

looks like a backpedal

[Soft-spoken]

ok im seeing a shitload of wall of text posts... will you forgive me for saying tl;dr


as of p6 pie is town. in fact, gb vs pie looks tvt. ima come back later and skim through p 6-15

[Soft-spoken]

ok new plan... ill read pages 6-15 if i feel like it or feel the need to, i feel like much of what is being talked about now is conversation based on where i left off anyways ima iso bbmolla and see if he made a second post, and ill look back if i see something referenced that im not familiar with.

sangres is town. so thats 2 solids in my townpile.

[Soft-spoken]

@arsonists: I'm fairly confident Yuriko is the firefighter, you guys should burn her.

the actual fuck

[Soft-spoken]

Okay.

VOTE: Soft-spoken

Okay.

VOTE: Quilford

[Soft-spoken]

Okay.

VOTE: Soft-spoken

Okay.

VOTE: Quilford

Are you actually scum reading Quilford or this this just petulance that he didn't explain himself?
What is your BBMolla read?
Why are the townreads you've talked about town to you?

-b

1. quilford has been awk in every post ive seen. i wouldnt call it a scumread but im willing to 1v1 for now. i also wanted to see if anyone cried OMGUS

2. BBMolla is a stange man. I like him. hes a cool cat. i think he is playing bad so far. i hope hes not scum

3. both of my townreads are for the same reason. i can follow their logic and they seem genuine. this is always the reason why i townread anyone ever.

[Soft-spoken]

#367 was pretty underwhelming as an assessment of the first 5 pages. I really don't like how he responds to sangres' question, it wasn't even directed at him.

i was responding to several posts, no need to quote them all. i dont like that people were throwing around the "newb" sentiment at someone for being curious as to how to scum-hunt in a setup where nobody has a known scum-partner and nobody flips for quite some time

Padded out by a response to a joke by molla

i said i hope it was a joke. he wasn't too clear on whether it actually was. i cant read sarcasm in text format unless its obvious. it reminded me of some of the more horrendous scum RVS's ive seen

#367 the whole thing reads like scum trying to look busy. There's not any actual scumhunting. Also don't like how he says he'll read pages 6-15 and then drops that as well

you contradict yourself. if i was trying to look busy i would pretend to read those pages as if i gave a fuck

[Soft-spoken]

Firefighter, Trees, Tree-stumps, and

Arsonists

are all vulnerable to being primed and ignited.

unless mod has a habit of explicitly stating entirely useless mechanics, im p sure that means arsonists dont know their partner

[Soft-spoken]

ah, i always skip over role PMs in setup specs bc i see no point in reading them as the rules always state that citing them is against the rules.

@mod how on earth are arsonists prone to being ignited lmfao

[Soft-spoken]

Yeah.

Could be faked but I doubt it.

i am perfectly capable of faking that FTR... but, no... that was a townslip

[Soft-spoken]

i see no actual reasons. i see one person being paranoid for my questionable entrance where i got to page 6 and realized i didnt want to read the rest of the game. this is quite obviously not a scumtell as i simply could have cherrypicked posts between 6-15 to respond to as scum.

and ya dont underestimate me... i have a 70% scum winrate on most of my accounts on EM and im 2/2 here

[Soft-spoken]

ehhhh... i was ineffectivebehavior im my experimental strat-bending phase. plato in my tryhard for a trophy phase. brakes in my tryhard to fix the problems in the community oh and PLEASE MOD ME phase. and duke in my "fuck you incompetent assholes im gunna cheat and win gold to prove what worthless piles of shit you are" phase. + 20 other ego alts.

as for why i find them genuine and flow with their logic (the only relevant bits ATM)

first and foremost is the genuine thing and i cant really pinpoint this... its all in phrasing and tone. reactive posting and probing into others intentions sets off huge green lights for me. competent scum usually has a plan about how to present themselves.. all but the most expert of scum have a hard time altering their narrative on the fly. when i see people sustaining a thought process while adapting to the responses they get to form a more thorough interactions and expressing firm opinions... i see that combo as a genuine interaction because its very hard to fake. the relating to the thought process part is actually part of my reading them to be genuine. ill see something they responded to on the fly and ill think "yeah that makes sense coming from their perspective"

i know this isnt very specific as to the interactions with these two, but ill sum it down to pie's interaction with you was very mater of fact... and sengres interaction with the scary wolf avatar showed detailed thought processes. as he asked more questions, sengres responses became more and more descriptive, as if sengres didnt think to say particular things at first but that they were details that were considered before the question was asked.

[Soft-spoken]

You're in more than one scumpile.

do you mind quoting... or at least referencing any serious claim that i am scum? the only one i have seen (unless bbmolla was serious) was the person that i am cross-voting.

if anyone made a serious accusation of me before page 15 they are scum.

[Soft-spoken]

im gunna f5 in 10 minutes and if there is nothing else posted im playing dota until i fall asleep

[Soft-spoken]

I've seen you make intentionally scummy entrances (which I thought you might be doing here) and then sort players based on what you thought of their reactions to your entrance.

why did you have to say that out loud.

[Soft-spoken]

[quote="In post 511Maxwell [/quote]
great, now i have to feel inferior for the remainder of the game

[Soft-spoken]

sangres, im fine with being POE'd as scum. all that means to me is that some people have false townreads. if anyone tried to legit scumread me before page 15 though they are legit scum as fuck

[Soft-spoken]

oh and my posting is sloppy AF when im tipsy so ignore the grammar and BBcode errors TY

[Soft-spoken]

this is quite obviously not a scumtell as i simply could have cherrypicked posts between 6-15 to respond to as scum.

Yeah, and then they would have been as bad as your first post responding to pages 1 to 5 lmao

naw, if im scum i care about appearances

[Soft-spoken]

im gunna f5 in 10 minutes and if there is nothing else posted im playing dota until i fall asleep

dude play with me

I was 5k but I'm shit at the heroes who wreck this patch so now I'm like 4.7. My group mmr is like 3.9 though.

haha you wouldnt want to play with me... my experience with dota is comparable to that of MS. "i played a game like this for a long time" ima former league / EM scrub lol

[Soft-spoken]

I've seen you make intentionally scummy entrances (which I thought you might be doing here) and then sort players based on what you thought of their reactions to your entrance.

why did you have to say that out loud.

because it doesn't look to me like you were doing that here and that worries me more than anything else about your play.

i didnt really have a chance to make an early game appearance here. i kinda sorta tried a lil with my insta-omgus but nobody really responded to that.

[Soft-spoken]

also, your attention to meta is giving me the warm and fuzzies (i already TR you but i mean more in the warm and fuzzy sort of way)

[Soft-spoken]

And yet Soft's recent posts have read as much more genuine.

SIGH

and scuse me but i was genuine all along. i highlighted the posts that stood out amidst the heaps of circlejerking... then i saw walls of text and said "fuck it im done"

[Soft-spoken]

i actually joined this site to take the EM out of this player so plz dont say that bc then ill have to go back to EM

[Soft-spoken]

I feel like he saw S-S acting lynchable with only a few lynchable players left and came out full force pushing him as a result, then backtracked on it when he saw positive sentiment towards him in order to avoid looking too conspicuous about it. I need to reread his posts in-depth and see if his arguments for it made sense.

ya i was wondering about that when i saw this post.

And yet Soft's recent posts have read as much more genuine.

SIGH

damn, this push isnt gunna work "sigh"

also it wasnt accompanied by and unvote... so its lacks a certain tone of sincerity.

[Soft-spoken]

Oh, Plato, I remember you. I was Insanoflex

when i saw you in que i thought you were the "empire" of EM lol

[Soft-spoken]

[quote="In post 556Quilford's reaction to Soft-spoken's townslip thing, read to me like scum exasperated that an easy mislynch as been swept out from under him. [/quote]

im on the fence about this. im having this "too scummy to be scum" thought about it atm. like... maybe i expect too much out of scum players, but usually people try to hide overt hints at intent like that. the "sigh" thing is like way to fucking obvious to be a legit slip?

[Soft-spoken]

Quilford's reaction to Soft-spoken's townslip thing, read to me like scum exasperated that an easy mislynch as been swept out from under him.

im on the fence about this. im having this "too scummy to be scum" thought about it atm. like... maybe i expect too much out of scum players, but usually people try to hide overt hints at intent like that. the "sigh" thing is like way to fucking obvious to be a legit slip?

[Soft-spoken]

i really need to start using preview more often when im dicing up quotes

[Soft-spoken]

I do think the whole "focus on your slot without looking much elsewhere" point is fair

not so sure about this. i see people doing this a lot as any alignment.

[Soft-spoken]

I still don't think he's scumhunted at all and I think the reasoning he gave for his townreads was weak.

thats probably because i havnt scumhunted at all and my stated reasons for my townreads are weak.

[Soft-spoken]

Thinking my sigh was me not being able to conceal my irritation that another mislynch had escaped me is hilariously stupid.

i openly said i was on the fence about this. full on slips generally dont happen when people think before they push submit

[Soft-spoken]

I think all my early points are valid

not even remotely valid tbh. i can see why someone could perceive it that way if they thought poorly constructed posts were scummy.

[Soft-spoken]

I don't like Soft's reaction to whomever posted that he likes making scummy entrances for the purposes of getting people's reactions

my reaction was frustration in the fact that i had not yet been able to harness this tactic to its potential in this game yet and it was exposed prematurely.

[Soft-spoken]

@quil... oh btw the response you just said you didnt like... it was right before you said my posts were starting to look genuine so... bullshit.

[Soft-spoken]

I think all my early points are valid

not even remotely valid tbh. i can see why someone could perceive it that way if they thought poorly constructed posts were scummy.

How about if they thought posts that contained a sum total of fuck all were scummy?

equally invalid unlesss said post was trying hard to look constructive.

[Soft-spoken]

Which was my original contention, yes

lol how can you look at a post that has a couple quotes and a couple lines and say it was trying hard.

[Soft-spoken]

if you want to see me trying hard look at staring contest 4p micro

[Soft-spoken]

no i read it and its utter bullshit, you basically accused me of being lazy scum. nothing you said points to me tryharding.

[Soft-spoken]

@quil... oh btw the response you just said you didnt like... it was right before you said my posts were starting to look genuine so... bullshit.

Yeah the posts were starting to look genuine in that they had more personality. I mistook that for towniness at the time.

ya you thought it was towny which is why you unvoted. also literally nothing changed between then and now except you being accused of disingenuous backpedaling

[Soft-spoken]

ya you thought it was towny which is why you unvoted. also literally nothing changed between then and now except you being accused of disingenuous backpedaling

1. I haven't unvoted
2. I read your posts again

obviously. thats my point. why wouldnt you unvote if you actually thought i was scum initially then suddenly realised i was being towny? thats the whole fucking reason why i thought it was scummy and i said that already. it would look a lot more believable if you unvoted at that point, then after rereading deciding that you were wrong... put your vote back up. instead you left your vote up and backpedaled on your logic saying the very posts you thought indicated me being genuine are now scummy .... after being acused that your townread was disingenuous

[Soft-spoken]

We were fifteen pages in, this was going to be your first post of the game that wasn't confirming or complaining about the fact that we were fifteen pages in, I think you would have felt under pressure to try and scrape something longer than two sentences together.

and yet you say i was trying hard... you have no logical thought process that i can identify.

[Soft-spoken]

*Quil's inner monologue*

Wow. Apparently if I had unvoted at the time, I would be looking a lot more town now! Damn, will have to remember not to make that mistake again in future scum games

not putting your money where your mouth is is one of the most reliable tells i have ever encountered

[Soft-spoken]

We were fifteen pages in, this was going to be your first post of the game that wasn't confirming or complaining about the fact that we were fifteen pages in, I think you would have felt under pressure to try and scrape something longer than two sentences together.

and yet you say i was trying hard... you have no logical thought process that i can identify.

Yes. After being absent for fifteen pages, you obviously were going to TRY HARDER to put a post together so that it least gave the appearance of having content.

yes, i would have tried harder to put a towny looking post together. you are talking in circles.

[Soft-spoken]

im calling the semantics police.

Pedit: no, i obviously didnt need to after i became aware that my false assumption about the setup was in fact incorrect

[Soft-spoken]

yes, i would have tried harder to put a towny looking post together.

Great, we agree. Glad that's resolved.

obviously not because you are still voting me.

[Soft-spoken]

ok, summarize in a paragraph what was scummy about my opener so i can tell you how full of shit you are in one line... you are taking fragments of logic and running in circles.

Pedit: if you dont know... you are too dense to have a conversation with

Pedit2 : i havnt agreed with a single thing you have said

[Soft-spoken]

k im done talking to you

[Soft-spoken]

i think what quilford was trying to say is that im a lazy tryhard scum.

[Soft-spoken]

why TF is everything bright now... someone turn off the lights

http://puu.sh/irRmF/9780902798.png

[Soft-spoken]

boycotting MS until it stops hurting my eyes

peace nerds

[Soft-spoken]

In my defense, case was made before the slip.

yet you returned to grinding away at it afterward... in a rather illogical manner.

[Soft-spoken]

yuriko is a decent policy lynch, but im not seeing any substance in a yuriko push fyi

[Soft-spoken]

i was wondering when youd pop back in, WB

[Soft-spoken]

i mean the whole deal where yuriko seems like she is afraid town will lose because she thinks its scumsided. that was a marginal towntell imo... its just... its hard to defend someone who is so chronically inactive.

[Soft-spoken]

i would appreciate it very much if people who cite post numbers instead of describing or quoting the context.... use the post link feature because scroll wheel clinking for a quick reference is much easier than halting my read of a wall of text and looking for it.

[Soft-spoken]

since nobody is jumping on quill with me atm

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

[Soft-spoken]

i guess im not really the proactive forum player that i thought i was. i was in games that had little to no content and was eager to force things to happen... now i hardly have the energy to post after a 45 minute catch-up session. ill be the counterbalance. when yall run out of steam and your gums stop flappin as much ill fill in the blanks

im not going to pretend like i have any solid reads atm... honestly there is too much going on, and too many talented players... im used to there being a few low hanging fruit types that i can push and and see who sheeps and whatnot... or just make myself look scummy. but this isnt really the game for those antics so ima havta learn to be a more sophisticated player maybe.

If lynching yuriko is one of those things you have to do then go for it. id rather see someone be adventurous and step out on a limb and hard push one of your meta-buddies but the courage to do so seems rather lacking, even among the people who do have legitimate fos's ... maybe lynching yuriko will be the thing that moves this game foreward.

[Soft-spoken]

ok, lets pretend im a gladiator and im putting RBD and sengres in the ring...

@everyone

if they were the only 2 people who could be lynched today, and abstaining from a vote was not allowed, who would you vote for

[Soft-spoken]

since nobody is jumping on quill with me atm

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

What are your issues with rainbow dash?

im more of a pinkie pie fan

[Soft-spoken]

soo.. a friend told me i should play

A GAME

of agar.io yesterday and i ended up spending ALL of my free time on it. dont go to that site or you will never see the sunlight again i swear to god.


anyways im catching up ... expect a block of quotes and responses soonish

[Soft-spoken]

The solving-the-game part, I guess. So uh. Everything? What have you actually done as of this post? I don't even think you have a scum read outside of me.

The scumteam I was operating with earlier was you-Yuriko. I still think Yuriko is scum, but I'm not at all interested in pushing her today.

why in heavens name would you refuse to push on an easy lynch that you think is scum?????///??.!!!!!!!

[Soft-spoken]

I would feel better about him if I'd liked any of the pushes he's done this game but uh... outside the gentlemen push and some issue he brought up with me, I don't actually think he's made any pushes.

Two things that I feel weird about wrt pieguy were his interactions with me and the way he's approaching Quilford-Softspoken (especially the weird half push on Quilford). I don't think Quilford's reasons for pushing S-S were particularly strong, sure, but they did feel genuine most of the way through.

i dont see how you can find someone to be genuine while they are twisting words, taking things out of context, and continuing to argue for the sake of argument

[Soft-spoken]

What it looks like to me is Nacho going "hey, I'm gonna push muffin" and her going "OK, I'll support you if I see an opportunity..." or something along those lines. Which would explained the half-assed meta argument and the angle she's pushing with regards to my reaction to pieguy v you compared to bork's (where one happened before it was actually a thing and the other happened after...)

You're absolutely correct that Ffery's support of me is forced; I have a strong scum read on someone for reasons that are not incredibly compelling, she doesn't. She does see the use in hard-pushing a player like you out of the gate, and she agrees with the sentiment behind the push, and so she supports. The difference between her supporting here and her supporting scum-me's push is that she lets how uncomfortable she is leak into thread pretty obviously, whereas if she was scum she would be uncomfortable because she doesn't like being scum and then suck it up.

im with anyone else who hates nacho's posting in this thread

[Soft-spoken]

Pieguyn reading that and coming to the realization just felt like the right thing at the right time and I don't think she'd have backed off at this point if scum (she'd have probably done it earlier or not at all).

This seems... arbitrary.

how TF is this arbitrary. do you know what the word means?

[Soft-spoken]

Nacho - what, in this post, was muffin supposed to town read pieguy for? And why is it not likely for him to think it's an overreaction and scummy, especially considering he was concerned about pieguy before this post?

my initial thoughts re: that push was that it was a strange line in the sand (and a horribly horribly horribly horribly early one) for pieguy to draw. when you make a push like that as scum, you're putting all of your eggs, all of your hopes and dreams, into a basket. when you push a player like that as scum, they will scum read you pretty much every time, and it's very very hard to make that suspicion go away after you make a push like that, especially after you give up your power after being inevitably forced to town read the slot. these risks are compounded exponentially with the setup. if you do successfully mislynch them by some stupid, stupid, miracle they are still alive forever to fuck you over. if you get them to give you a little space, fucking sucks for you because can't kill them the first night and killing them in the second is a massive waste. I didn't think pieguy would be willing to take a massive risk as scum so early.

I hate the whole "1st level scumtells are towny" argument. a first level scum-tell is a second level towntell, which is why pro scum will always be first level scummy. i have no idea how adept pie is at scum, but i townread pie for completely different reasons and i hate your reasons.

[Soft-spoken]

"which is why pro scum will always be first level scummy"

* in the company of good players

[Soft-spoken]

@ Soft -

Can you run me through the RBD vote? Also I wouldn't vote either of RBD or Sangres right now, leaning town on the both of them - having to pick between voting inside of two town reads is p stupid especially when the strength of both of them are about equal right now.

I voted RBD because i felt like it. not much to it.

i like how you pretended to answer my question though

[Soft-spoken]

Vote: Pieguyn

wait... what?!?!?!?!?

[Soft-spoken]

well im closing in on being drunk as the alcohol kicks in and im finding myself yelling "bullshit" at every post so maybe ill just finish this later

[Soft-spoken]

ok back to catching up. im not necessarily sorry that mafia hasn't been a priority recently, life is good. but uh... i probably have something to do with the game lagging.

[Soft-spoken]

A SHIT TON

tl;dr. glad this wasnt @ me but i kinda wish i had the motivation to read every post. you and a couple others are making many of your posts unbearably long to read. If i saw this in any of my other games, i would blame myself and credit it to my off-site experience like others seem to have... but honestly this is the only game ive had this response to. i want to curl up in a ball and die when i see these posts.

I don't want to lynch Yuriko because there are scum in the other 8 players

And I think it's very very important we get real flips now for the sake of the game, and I also think it's important we wait to lynch the Yuriko a lot until it's blatantly obvious that it's not going to get replaced. If we mislynch Yuriko now, that's a big win for scum (my #1 priority if I were scum with not-Yuriko would be getting Yuriko lynched). If we hit scum with Yuriko, game state doesn't actually change that much since no one dies except the person not doing anything.

this would make sense if you were on the fence about yuriko but it sounded like you were p sure that yuriko was scum? if this is the case then non of this makes sense to me.... i mean, if there were 3 scum in the game then sure, look for better flips. 2? no reason not to hard-push a lynchable scum read in any circumstance.

Also, also guys it's official. I'm a doctor!!!!!!!

I find this claim a little scummy. Could be fake.

-Nati

lol

[Soft-spoken]

ok and im finding it funny that quil is defending the "tryhard" word usage because IIRC i put those words in his mouth

[Soft-spoken]

oh and i would very much appreciate some power-posting from ffery ATM because the more nacho posts the less sure i am about sangres town

[Soft-spoken]

oh and town points for BBmolla for the sick burn.... and half points to quil for finding the humor in it.

[Soft-spoken]

i wonder if the CHAPTER posters find my multi-posts as annoying as i find trying to read their chapters.

[Soft-spoken]

your posts are bearable for the most part. the problem i have with the huge wall posts is the ones where there is no place for my eyes to rest or (subject/content) speed-read

sometimes i even make huge posts but, they are chopped up with subjects, @'s , quotes... ect. when i see a neverending stream of text that is impossible to skim through i just shut down.

my reads are ATM... pie is town. most people are town-leaning (sangres slot recently moved from town to town leaning for me thanks to nachos posting) quil gives me the WTF's but im not sure that qualifies as a scumread. yuriko is begging for a policy lynch. this game is rather unreadable as a whole to me right now.

[Soft-spoken]

oh and the person im voting? i was sheeping a slot i townread... they have since unvoted and are less town to me than they were when i sheeped so

UNVOTE:

[Soft-spoken]

i just started to get paranoid about a yuriko/sangres team....

[Soft-spoken]

fuck preflip associations though.

[Soft-spoken]

oh and i would very much appreciate some power-posting from ffery ATM because the more nacho posts the less sure i am about sangres town

My "what now?" question got an answer!

There are a ton of questions for my slot atm, but they're very specifically not questions for me.

Unlike Nacho, I feel like there's an inevitability to Yuriko getting lynched today. I'd want for other stuff to happen first, and I think most players aren't willing to end the day yet, even if they're voting Yuriko, but once inevitability locks in and becomes momentum, the gamestate is different. I can't count the number of times I've supported the lynch of a relatively unknown and new-ish looking player whose posts look scummy and they flipped town, so I can grok Nacho pushing for people to keep looking today in ways they might not until day 2 if we settle on Yuriko as early as it looked like we would.

i dont mind pushes on people who arnt yuriko... i actually favor it. i dont read yuriko scum at all im just kinda being pragmatic and accepting its probably a decent lynch with no major scumreads. the problem i have with nacho is that his pushes are incredibly unconvincing on the last few pages ... look more like throwing a vote around randomly tbh... and IIRC he has implied that he thinks yuriko is scum several times so i dont really see the point from his perspective

[Soft-spoken]

if a gun were put to your head right now and you had to guess the scum-team who would you pick?

sangres/yuriko for the soft-bus looking thing thats going on. but thats a huge stretch and so are most of my other "reads" tbh which is why im not being very vocal about them. im going to poke the scum to death with toothpicks this game

[Soft-spoken]

honestly most of the time RBD posts it gives me the creeps but i can attribute it to anything but the scary wolf avatar

[Soft-spoken]

actually yuriko leaves behind a massive trail of associative context for someone that has hardly posted. its not just your slot...

but, seriously. in a 2 scum game, if you think one scum isnt going to be a good associative lead after a flip... there is pretty much nothing you can do to change that... because there is no scum c to associate with scum b

[Soft-spoken]

like i would buy nachos argument there in a 3 scum game like ive said before... but in a 2 scum game... the amount of lynch that needs to happen is directly proportional to the amount of scum they seem to possess and nothing else. you can rig the game into giving you associations by lynching the other scum... and if the player you scumread is actually scum... the chances of doing that are slim

[Soft-spoken]

you

CAN'T

rig the game into

[Soft-spoken]

well. i should do my ctrl+f meta method sometime soon. on GB, Gold, and RBD players. uknow what... im never playing game with this many hydras again... and if i ever mod im going to limit all my games to 2

[Soft-spoken]

how can you say in one breath that nacho reads you well and you can see why he thought you were obvious town, then in another say his vote on you wasnt scummy?

[Soft-spoken]

one good reason for not lynching yuriko is probably that... if we lynch town we have an IC to crutch on for a bit and yuriko wouldnt be the optimal guide for town.

for the EM folks, its like orcing a bad player... always a bad play. this just occurred to me

all the associations and whatnot that may or may not happen with a yuriko "flip" isnt really important... but if yuriko is town wed be better off lynching someone who we hope is town, but fear as scum.... then consider sheeping them if they are in fact town.

[Soft-spoken]

for me that would be the sangres or GB

[Soft-spoken]

reason being i think RBD is the type i will be able to clearly read later in the game... gold saucer as well... GB seems to type to be feared as scum and sheeped as town... ffery as well... nacho makes my head hurt...


quil is starting to grow on me and bbmolla is going to be transparent late game for sure.

Pedit: ok maybe not always... but most of the time

[Soft-spoken]

im pretty sure i hate what just came out of my mouth.... im basically saying "lets lynch the most competent players" but its probably a broken strat in this setup...

[Soft-spoken]

wow ok nacho is making sense now

[Soft-spoken]

@gb the reason i say that is that the tone from all your posts from both heads seem to be fairly neutral and accommodating

[Soft-spoken]

am i wrong or is gold saucer not on anyone's "im not going to vote this person" list

[Soft-spoken]

to clarify i wasnt saying your tone is scummy... its just that people with that tone tend to slip beneath my radar and i cant see me getting an accurate read on your slot

[Soft-spoken]

im done with waiting for yuriko to post. tbh if yuriko is town im gunna have a hard time forgiving her for not replacing out

[Soft-spoken]

VOTE: YurikoJasmine now is the time to post anything you possibly can. idc if you arnt caught up.

[Soft-spoken]

l-1

[Soft-spoken]

Hence my very blunt "She's firefighter or scum" words.

hahah i saw this coming when i saw yurikos claim

[Soft-spoken]

and ya to state the obvious here... scum has no reason to cc, and scum has no reason not to claim under duress. no brainer.

[Soft-spoken]

usually my worst town performances are in the easiest games so yuriko being scum makes sense on so many levels.

[Soft-spoken]

Quil is likely the partner. more or less for that town read she attempted to put up on him in her reads post (848) for vague reasons which in actuality I think were entirely fakeable - gut says it could be newb scum who was afraid to commit to a town read on her partner.

quil cant be the partner. well i suppose its possible. but my MO in games like this is deathtunelling a towny that i had an argument with... and i almost did that to quil...

[Soft-spoken]

the only thing that stopped me from deathtunelling quil is that i promised myself not to have such sharp teeth and bare them in every game like i used to.

[Soft-spoken]

ya BB-town calling out a pr read so early didnt make sense to me... so i fosd him at first and considered pushing until i realized that was a possible soft claim.

[Soft-spoken]

and lesbi honest you coulda claimed daystart and it wouldnt have mattered... (assuming you can self target) leaving it open ended as a night-wifom doesnt decrease the odds of you putting out a fire after claiming

[Soft-spoken]

in either case, I don't really have anything I want to do that can't wait until tomorrow.

bbl for real

good point. selfhammers suk

UNVOTE:

[Soft-spoken]

wow i suk... how do you misclick the quote button on an entirely different post? no wonder i never make plat tier in league

[Soft-spoken]

i just did the math and its actually CCing the FF and winning the cc is not a bad position for scum to be in if molla was scum and quil wasnt.


but thats just paranoia speaking.


yuriko is coming out with some rather strange fos's (me/gold) that arnt substantiated.

[Soft-spoken]

in fact yuriko was right from the getgo... this is a rather scumsided setup.

its going to give me a stroke trying to explain it all, but i dont think thats necessary.

[Soft-spoken]

maybe not overall scumsided... lets say swingy. if town has unlynchables, scum has perfect priming targets and wont misplay any night whatsoever... especially with FF dead... sp basically if yuriko is town and we lynch her its a 4v1 with no clears mechanically d3

[Soft-spoken]

in other words. we have 1 mislynch and no claimable roles unless mafia primes someone who is later lynched.

[Soft-spoken]

yuriko if you are town you really need to try harder here. you WILL be hammered 99%

[Soft-spoken]

2015-06-27 17:01:08 -4.00

[Soft-spoken]

(expired on 2015-06-27 17:01:08)

[Soft-spoken]

im lurking.

[Soft-spoken]

$query=iso%20ctrl+f~yuriko$results?

gold saucer= 68
GB = 67
sangres = 42
ME = 39
pieguyn = 31
RBD = 30
quilford = 10

discuss

[Soft-spoken]

i want to hear if anyone else makes anything of it before i divulge

[Soft-spoken]

Ok to assume this is now moot?

yep

in other news, I want to say RBD is likely town off of Yuriko's read on them. I realize it's objectively fakeable, but I think that kind of read coming from newb-scum is more likely to be on a townie than a scum partner - she's not pointing out problems with their actual posts because she has trouble finding legitimate angles of attack to push on them and doesn't want to risk tripping over herself making a bullshit push. I'm not sure about this, though.

lazy busing is common of newb-scum. its easier and safer to make a bad push on your partner than on a towny... so no.

[Soft-spoken]

noted.

something else id like to float around. what do you think possible motivations from yuriko fosing both of us when her lynch was near confirmed.

[Soft-spoken]

youd never know that i was an english major.....

[Soft-spoken]

basically i am implying that if you eliminate everyone who yuriko made a bad push on... since pie thinks that is a mark of being town... you have pie, sangres, GB, and quil left. im not willing to admit that this game is autowin so im not buying pies logic

[Soft-spoken]

ya.... thats what i thought... there had to be a motivation because she obviously wasnt trying to prevent herself from being lynched. she admitted defeat and tried to throw us for a loop on her way out

[Soft-spoken]

I'm re-examining the early game pieguyn stuff now that I think I am a lot more neutral and detached today than I was when it was happening and uh the Yuriko-based stuff really rings all sorts of alarm bells in the scumhunting portion of my brain.

ok then could you do us the favor of a formal quote and commentate type post in RE: these posts

[Soft-spoken]

since pie thinks that is a mark of being town

empty cases coming from scum are more likely to be aimed at town.

ummm... how is that different than how i interpenetrated what she said? pies non-existent cases on us were even worse

[Soft-spoken]

her townread on Yuriko

is pie the type that gets 1st level scummy to look town? because town-reading your horrible scum partner is def counter-intuitive

[Soft-spoken]

hard-busing isnt required to blend. when someone is that bad its way too easy to be neutral, or say they are scummy without pushing on them.i probably wouldnt hard-bus yuriko there as scum, but i sure as hell wouldnt town read her in case that was perceived as buddying

[Soft-spoken]

which reminds me of why i thought a sangres/yuriko scumteam was plausible even before any claiming happened. nacho treated yuriko like i would as scum

[Soft-spoken]

we stumbled on a policy lynch that happened to be scum.... and she confirmed suspicions claiming FF... i wouldnt call that "wrecking"

it feels more like... smurfing

[Soft-spoken]

heroes of the storm? ive been meaning to try that since ive played every other moba in existence and blizzard was always my fav producer.

[Soft-spoken]

Will you talk to me? I feel like I've been trying to get into your thoughts about this game with very little success.

wot u want from me "_"

[Soft-spoken]

i feel kinda detached if you havnt noticed... my mind is kinda in a puddle when it comes to mafia and i dont feel like i have much to offer other than probing

P-edit: nobody and everybody is scum imo

[Soft-spoken]

ok what if i said you were scum and voted you with a serious face? what then?

[Soft-spoken]

if i was to approach this game mechanically, which i probably should seeing as how my scumdar is malfunctioning... id say scum is in quil, RBD, and GB for vote placement/order

[Soft-spoken]

then again i would have doubts about myself objectively... then dismiss them because i unvoted so that yuriko couldnt self-hammer

[Soft-spoken]

but ya the 2 off-votes at the end of the day and the fact that RBD is filling up the possible bus-vote slot....

[Soft-spoken]

wait... pie fits that description too.

uknow-wot im sticking to my original plan for today. fresh momentum. everyone but me is scum

[Soft-spoken]

even bbmolla

[Soft-spoken]

VOTE: quilford

[Soft-spoken]

those are both RBD right?

[Soft-spoken]

ok what if i said you were scum and voted you with a serious face? what then?

I'd wonder if it might lead to a better gamesolving mode than the no-interaction we had going day 1.

the no interaction bit from me was me not knowing how to approach your slot. i felt town-vibes from you and scum-vibes from nacho... but nacho starting looking better toward the end.

[Soft-spoken]

ok um.... quil?

[Soft-spoken]

ok im serious face voting quil again.

[Soft-spoken]

ya well quil obviously blurted a bunch of random names in random order in his last read-tier list so im solid on this vote for now.
cya nerds

[Soft-spoken]

ok hint: there is more than BBmolla being on that list that is whacky about it....

discuss. im out for real this time

[Soft-spoken]

i know it must be hard now that nobody's standing in the way of you being universally townread. but i want you to know, if you need a scumread... i'll always be here for you

im actually quite used to it, but the transition is rather blunt and non sequitur

[Soft-spoken]

honestly dude... appealing emotionally to friends its the must have tool in scum-play. friends know your meta and thus have an "unfair"advantage on you... if if you have their sympathy its actually fair game.

im not bringing this up because i want to make a pie-scum case... but this is a game of lies and manipulation. the only thing i saw to be questionable ethically in pies post was linking that whole post to an "outside game influence" like theme. IMO anything that is ethically questionable as scum should be viewed the same way as town, or else you give too many ways for people to conf-town themselves. talking about possibly replacing out... thats the only questionable part there... and i would say the same to pie-town and pie-scum.

[Soft-spoken]

Should I claim?

yes; If you're the ff I want to know with enough time to spare to reevaluate

we've got like what, 2 days left?

-b

i cant help but wonder if this was coaching... that coupled with a possible soft-bus on her way out. saying me or saucer but especially me was scum... makes me HMMMMM

[Soft-spoken]

thanks captain obvious... i had no idea that was a possibility

[Soft-spoken]

literally everyone in the game is towntelling in some form or another so i can assume that towny content = town. probing into intent is 100% required and nobody is immune

[Soft-spoken]

literally everyone in the game is towntelling in some form or another so i

can't

assume that towny content = town. probing into intent is 100% required and nobody is immune

fixed

[Soft-spoken]

also, we should lynch quil today to get that out of the way. i have a nagging feeling that i was doused by quil and thus the sudden change from me being top tier towny from being top tier scummy. pushing on someone you doused is a waste of a douse... and i was near conf town from everyones perspective but quils + i tried to subtly encourage BBmolla to self his ability

[Soft-spoken]

i should really stop and reread what i write before i push submit. you know what i mean though.

[Soft-spoken]

basically i can see possible scum intent in everyone but pie... so pie is probably scum but ill let pie win if pie is scum. quil is the best lynch

[Soft-spoken]

VOTE: Gentlemen Bastards

[Soft-spoken]

The fuck?

[Soft-spoken]

to be fair... there is really an effective method of scum-hunting in existence. most people think they have effective methods... or at least methods that they lean on to pacify themselves until they find intent.... but intent isn't something that can be methodically determined. i use this fact as scum to win the vast majority of my games. a good scum player will find out your methods and work around them... its shockingly simple to do.

as town, im aware of this... and mostly just poke around until i have an epiphany.

[Soft-spoken]

i mean... there are methods that work for finding shit-tier scum but thats about it.

[Soft-spoken]

honestly im wondering if im having some kind of mental meltdown... i keep typing is for isnt and can for cant ect.

[Soft-spoken]

the method i lean on the most if i never have that epiphany is ctrl+f meta digging... to find those subtle language differences that signal a difference in game perception ... but honestly that doesnt work either if people are aware of how they are projecting themselves.

[Soft-spoken]

i just realised that almost everyone is going to react the same way to being fosd.

[Soft-spoken]

ur both scum! eat it.

[Soft-spoken]

hey guys if i was scum this game would be super easy btw

[Soft-spoken]

imo it looks like gold saucer is offended that riding on town-read laurels wont cut it

[Soft-spoken]

What do you think of quilfords "that's cool I'll be the first confirmed town"?

mixed up about it. one of the easiest towntells to fake. akin to "its ok guys im just a villager and we have a ml, lynch me today and get it over with"

[Soft-spoken]

i think GS is toe

[Soft-spoken]

i mean that conviction was convincing AF

but i already knew gold was toe because vote order on yuriko lynch

[Soft-spoken]

nacho why u not know that GS is toe?

[Soft-spoken]

wait a sec that is ffer

[Soft-spoken]

same... but i could say that of half the player list

[Soft-spoken]

i really want to hear from pie and BB. especially BB since he is conftown

[Soft-spoken]

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

[Soft-spoken]

if we arnt lynching quil its RBD or or GB. im entirely agnostic when it comes to these 3

[Soft-spoken]

How much of that do you think was motivated by your role?

Idk. An interesting similarity in both games is that I didnt really care about being run up: there because I was a Mason, here because I get to be confirmed town while the stakes are still low

if you are town, please dont treat being tree-stumped as any different from dying... because it isnt. unless you are going to have super scumhunting powers after you are lynched, there is literally no reason to fight for not being lynched as town.

[Soft-spoken]

not to fight for....

ughh why is it opposite day every time i post....

[Soft-spoken]

QUIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YOU MUST FITE TO NOT B LYNCHED.

if u dont, i doubt anyone will listen to you after you are lynched. I wont.

[Soft-spoken]

if quil is really town trying to get lynched ima be really annoyed.


as for the rest of you... this is too much of a headache to sort through atm ill get to it tomorrow.

[Soft-spoken]

honestly im overwhelmed by all the content

thats both good and bad... seems like id prefer a middleground... this game goes between being sluggish and being hyperactive.


for the moment im gunna block out most of the new content and do my own form of meta digging.

[Soft-spoken]

haha im being voted... and prodded .

guess its time to decide if im site-flaking or not. ok im back

[Soft-spoken]

im sorry i cant do it. i have no desire and even less free time... i could give it a week or so to see if things clear up, but i still may not have the motivation to address this game. ill take a poll on if i should replace out. dont expect me to have an active role in the game within the next week if i stay.

[Soft-spoken]

the whole time i was agnostic RE:yuriko , so why would i be on board with finalizing a policy lynch before the day ended. dipwit.

[Soft-spoken]

hell, ive been agnostic about everyone but you all game hon. you were my only solid TR ... so i guess it makes sense that you fos me afterall.

[Soft-spoken]

everything about pie felt natural all game. every time i tried to second guess town alignment on pie it felt like undue paranoia. unless pie is a masterful liar, things like

I had a dream the other night that this game was plurality, RBD was lynched with only 2 votes, flipped scum and the game ended. maybe this is a sign I'm wrong?!?!

point to pie being town. dreaming about a game implies considerable effort in analysis. while the dream comment is fakeable, why add the bit about plurality lynch? its seems like the type of thing that would have significance in a subconscious exploration of the game... and a detail of a type that is unique in a way that most liars wouldn't think to add.

just one recent example of the type of thing that keeps occurring when pie posts.

[Soft-spoken]

also worth noting that im prety sure gold is town, but only for mechanical reasons. middle of the heap on a scum lynch is nearly always town. basically its always town unless scum premeditates the vote position to throw off someone who is privy to this voting mechanic

[Soft-spoken]

[quote="In post 1659how he ignored the case on Yuriko[/quote] there was no case on yuriko. RBD making a half assed attempt at one is the main reason he was in the group of people i was willing to lynch. anyone trying to make a legitimate case on someone who made 1 post either believes they are gods gift to mafia or are entirely full of it in some other manner

[Soft-spoken]

sorry about that

how he ignored the case on Yuriko

there was no case on yuriko. RBD making a half assed attempt at one is the main reason he was in the group of people i was willing to lynch. anyone trying to make a legitimate case on someone who made 1 post either believes they are gods gift to mafia or are entirely full of it in some other manner

[Soft-spoken]

I DID think of that^

my point exactly

ya i read your post after i made that one... you also mention something else that pinged with me before... the RBD "im not taking sides, there are no sides to take" agro post @ sangres happened right before i switched to RBD d1. i wasnt willing to commit to "rbd is scum because that post gave me the undefined jeebies" yet but i was hoping my relatively naked vote would cause more interaction and/or encourage a BW

[Soft-spoken]

ya, GG is probably town. if RBD isnt scum its probably GB

P-edit... ya... as i was saying at the end of D1, if yuriko is scum then (your slot) probably isnt because... in games that should be incredibly easy i end up in a poke war with a towny like i did with quil... and entirely miss that the other scum was obvious too.

[Soft-spoken]

btw im perfectly ok with delaying the hammer for selfish reasons. if RBD is scum its going to delay the game to be unnecessarily long, if RBD is town, it will make for a stale couple of days in the game.... on the other hand id like to be able to have a chance at actually participating to my fullest if that is the case... which may be possible in about 6 days

[Soft-spoken]

oh 36 hours wont make much of a dif then

since nobody is jumping on quill with me atm

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

if rbd is scum then we win lol

there is no delay

lol i meant if we delayed the hammer with him being scum it would just waste time.

[Soft-spoken]

wtf. i had that first one on quote que when i made my last post and it didnt go.. now it decides to show up. quote feature is possessed :3

[Soft-spoken]

also I'm going to straight up admit the only reason I wanted this hammer was bc I've never actually lynched zmuffin-scum

lol

[Soft-spoken]

oh... the plurality lynch in the dream was pies subconscious saying " they are going to lynch scum muffin without you again !

[Soft-spoken]

ya i skimmed over the majority of the posts in this game and flat out didnt read most of the rest.

[Soft-spoken]

It's a pity RBD wasn't there the last few days
I feel like they can build a town case on themselves easily

maybe for one day.... i was only willing to lynch in RBD quil-slot and GB... maybe sangres if all else failed. my list was bigger than most. quils replace p much limited my list to 2.

[Soft-spoken]

i mean i feel like i was handed a win. my town game on the forums leaves something to be desired. all my town wins were p much autopilot.

cant really say i "caught" rbd, its just that its the lynch that made the most sense at the moment. just like yuriko was d1.

[Soft-spoken]

as for the setup. its really swingy IMO. feels lie a tempo game. I would suspect that its fairly balanced.... with wins on both sides being one-sided.

[Soft-spoken]

honestly no.

for a game to be great it has to be challenging.