SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[Yosarian2]

Perminent. Damn missed that one.

Ok. If it's permenent, then it wasn't pip, and most likely was not sky (although we can test Sky and make sure hers is temporary).

That means we have another person, probably scum, scum out there wth the same ability Gale had. It also partly confirms R&L's claim of being hatred-ed the same night i was.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, that is interesting. Mod confirmed how? Does the mod confirm just your rolename? Your ability? Your alignment? What will the mod tell us, exactally?

I also answered this question already. abr asked if we wld confirmed as IC and I said yes. it will be announced in thread that are with the protagonists.

The mod will confirm in thread that you are pro-town when there are 10 people left alive. And you are 100% sure of this? No possible chance for confusion in you role, no wiggle room? Check with the mod if you have to, make 100% sure of this before you answer.

see again this sets off alarm bells cos you are trying to get titus to post and not give me room in the game. ----- that is anti-town at this point.

If you can not defend you actions, because Titus was responsible for all of them, then yes, I want to hear her defend them.

It's not anti-town for me to demand a real response from you guys. And sorry, but you blaming Titus and then not letting her answer for herself does not count as a defense.

in order to keep titus from spamposting I followed her leads even tho I disagreed with them but you MADE POSTS LIKE THIS and that is why I wld doubt my read and think she is right.

(sigh) Look, I know you understand why I suspect you. You have to.

What you're doing here is basically threatening to scumread me unless I stop questioning you, and that simply will not work. It's stuff like this that makes me scumread you, Mollie; not Titus, you

and it shld be obvs titus was the 1 who was defending gale I doubt you have this much trouble telling us apart.

The post i was just trying to ask you about where you defended Gale was you, not Titus. You even accidently posted it from your own account and not the hydra account. You called my case on Gale bad and said i was scum for making it, remember?

[Yosarian2]

He's talking in adventure chat, but mostly about mechanical stuff, not about his reads. I want to hear Drixx's reads as well.

[Yosarian2]

Mollie, I am not trying to make you cry, I am not trying to be awful, and I am not trying to "take advantage" of anything. I am trying to give you (or Titus, or whoever) a chance to explain yourself. Not because I don't like you (you know that I do), and not because I'm being mean or picking on you, but simply because I think you may have drawn a scum role this game. And you know, if you did, that doesn't make you a bad person, it's just what the game is.

Look, if you can't explain anything else, at least just please answer this one question:

The mod will confirm in thread that you are pro-town when there are 10 people left alive. And you are 100% sure of this? No possible chance for confusion in you role, no wiggle room? Check with the mod if you have to, make 100% sure of this before you answer.

[Yosarian2]

Mollie, I am not trying to make you cry, I am not trying to be awful, and I am not trying to "take advantage" of anything. I am trying to give you (or Titus, or whoever) a chance to explain yourself. Not because I don't like you (you know that I do), and not because I'm being mean or picking on you, but simply because I think you may have drawn a scum role this game. And you know, if you did, that doesn't make you a bad person, it's just what the game is.

Look, if you can't explain anything else, at least just please answer this one question:

The mod will confirm in thread that you are pro-town when there are 10 people left alive. And you are 100% sure of this? No possible chance for confusion in you role, no wiggle room? Check with the mod if you have to, make 100% sure of this before you answer.

I am sorry for my emotionalism yoyo and I don't want you to feel responsible for it. it is more of a clusterfuck of things about this game.

varsona said there are no lies in this game from the mod. then he stated the portion of our role that I was asking about. we will be mod-confirmed. <------ how many times do I have to state this before you pple become less confused? I mean to me
"you will be mod confirmed" shld be fairly easy to understand and I really feel like I am using simple words here and not being ambiguous at all. so what part of "you will be mod confirmed" are you having trouble understanding?

I just want to make sure this is 100% clear and unambiguous. Because I kind of want to unvote you because of your role claim, but I have to understand exactally what it means first, because if I do unvote you for your role claim and the "mod confirmed" thing turns out to not be what you're saying it is, then at that point I am going to have to lynch you.

So I just want to make crystal clear now exactally what "mod confirmed" means. Maybe you could ask the mod exactally what he's going to do? Is he going to say something in thread? Is he going to tell us your role-name, or your alignment, or that you're a giant invincible robot?

The more detail you can give me, the better off we are, both now and later. Because there are a lot of slightly different things "mod confirmed" might mean, and the differences are really important right now.

like I really don't understand the paranoia around us right now when I am telling you we can confirm ourselves. you can lynch us if it doesn't happen but i am telling you that it will.

Yeah, I understand that; that's why I'm trying to get this claim as specific as possible, so we all know exactally what to expect. Basically, I don't want to be in a situation in a few days where we're all arguing if you were technically confirmed or not and what that means; we're better off if we can get as many details as possible now.

but you know what? you haven't bothered to answer mine. like why are you picking on us when I am really being transparent here but did nothing about abr's lying except to "GO ABR!". like explain that to me cos it is things like that that make me doubt my read on you.

There was one point on day 1 when I was really frustrated by ABR lying. That was when I unvoted him as MC. I still find it frustrating.

But at this point, I've basically priced that into his stock if you know what I mean. Yes, he lied about his role. He also is obviously not scum with Max, not scum with Gale, he keeps scumhunting, he's not taking advantage of easy targets, and his play makes a lot of sense to me. Honestly, so long as he keeps lynching scum and looking townie in terms of behavir, he can claim to be a ruban sandwich with pastrami and french dressing if he wants and I would just shrug because i think he's town based on behavior.

In your case, though, you are saying that I should trust you and ignore the fact you defended scum *because of your role claim*. If I am supposed to back off you because of your role claim, then I need to believe it, I need to understand it, I need all the details I can get about it so I can analyze it, and I need to have enough information so when the time comes I will be able to tell for sure if you were telling the truth or not.

[Yosarian2]

don't unvote us cos of our role claim despite it being confirmable. this will the fucking 4th time I have said that our role will be confirmed IN THE THREAD. HE IS GOING TO SAY WE ARE ALIGNED WITH THE PROTAGONISTS AND TOWN.

Ok then. That is literally all I needed you to say.

unvote

again this is why I doubt my read on you. cos it has already been explained to you and I used simple words to explain it.

Earlier, you said something slightly different. But it doesn't matter, I just needed to get all the details clear in my head now.

pffft, its 1000 island dressing on a rueben. my point is you have not badgered him at all but you keep asking me the same question formatted in different ways when it seems incredulous to me that you keep saying you don't understand.

If I keep asking a question, it probably means that there is something I'm unclear on. Sorry if you feel like I'm making you repeat yourself.

don't fucking misrep me, THIS IS WHY YOU LOOK LIKE SCUM. I NEVER SAID THAT, EVER.

It sure looked like you were saying exactally that. I mean:

like I really don't understand the paranoia around us right now when I am telling you we can confirm ourselves. you can lynch us if it doesn't happen but i am telling you that it will.

[Yosarian2]

Not sure about zulfy, but the guy he replaced looks pretty bad in retrospect.

Just remember if we're going to wagon zulfy he has claimed hated so let him claim at lynch -2

[Yosarian2]

I've actually been informed that my hate is not permanent. I misunderstood what the mod said when I asked about it.

Ok, good. This makes more sense now.

So now we can test Sky's claim tonight. If she can temp-hate someone, that proves that she is not the one still throwing perm-hate around.

[Yosarian2]

I would suggest we have Sky roleblock+hatred Zulfy tonight. He's already claimed VT, so if he's telling the truth the roleblock doesn't matter, and another day of temp-hatred wouldn't do any harm to him.

[Yosarian2]

I would suggest we have Sky roleblock+hatred Zulfy tonight. He's already claimed VT, so if he's telling the truth the roleblock doesn't matter, and another day of temp-hatred wouldn't do any harm to him.

are you honestly saying he is vt? in a...

advertised role madness game?

where is the smart yoyo that I know and love can we have him in this game

That's his claim.

It's not unusual to have 1 VT in an otherwise crazy complicate game.

But what I'm saying is that if someone claims VT, then they're a safe target to roleblock. We lose nothing by roleblocking him if he's telling the truth, and maybe stop him from doing something if he is lying. And we can confirm Sky's claim that her hatred is temporary, like Pip's was. It's a win-win, overall.

[Yosarian2]

I would suggest we have Sky roleblock+hatred Zulfy tonight. He's already claimed VT, so if he's telling the truth the roleblock doesn't matter, and another day of temp-hatred wouldn't do any harm to him.

Scum can easily not kill someone for a night

Ok. That would also be a plus for the town, so if they want to WIFOM us, they should feel free to try.

Do you have a problem with being roleblocked, Zulfy?

[Yosarian2]

Wait. You have ALL the fist techniques already?

[Yosarian2]

@ Yos, yep.

@pirate, day 2 tho

Do you know what those are?

[Yosarian2]

No idea. That's all I was told. I begin the game with every fist technique

They're listed in a mod post.

-
FIST TECHNIQUES: ALL FIST TECHNIQUES ARE DAY-USE ONLY AND MUST BE DECLARED WITH A TARGET IN THE GAME THREAD.
SLIDING: Target Player can not vote for the rest of the day. One-shot per day.
SUPLEX: Target Player can not take night actions. One-shot per day.
BABEL CRUMBLE: All votes against target player count as double. One-shot per day.
GIANT SWING: Target Player loses all passive abilities until the following day. One-shot per day.
DREAM SUPER COMBO: Gladiate target player and uses all other FIST TECHNIQUES on them. One shot.
-

But do me a favor and please don't do anything to screw with votes. We really do not need any more of that.

[Yosarian2]

Also, it looks like all of Zulfy's abilities are day-only, so roleblocking him at night shouldn't be an issue, if we still want to test Sky's role that way.

[Yosarian2]

I can kill Skybird right now.

I never asked for all this powah

We're much better off actually lynching people normally with a real majority. Same thing Sensei told Klingon about wanting to be able to do useful vote count analysis later, but even more so.

[Yosarian2]

I think you are town

Also, if Zulfy was scum, I would assume his buddies would have explained to him how his role works before now.

[Yosarian2]

I think you are town

Also, if Zulfy was scum, I would assume his buddies would have explained to him how his role works before now.

what are you implying ? I said why I think he wouldn't fake such a thing at this point as scum

~Rylai

I'm saying Zulfy is probably town, because if he was a scum and his role PM said "you have all the fist techniques", he'd probably have asked his scumbuddies in daytalk what that meant as soon as he replaced in. He clearly had no idea.

[Yosarian2]

yeah

I ask people to unvote Zulfy

I'm still paranoid about Lowkey

I like a Lowkey / Cucum lynch

Sky / Klingon are later in my lynch prefers

~Rylai

I think Lowkey gets a ton of town cred for the way they went after Gale yesterday.

[Yosarian2]

Lemme at em Yos

Who can I punch?

Um.

The two abilities you have that look like they have a lot of pro-town utility are the one that roleblocks someone the next night, and the one that turns off passive abilities.

The one that turns off passive abilities might be able to let us lynch a normally unlynchable scum, like the two we've seen so far. That could be huge.

The roleblock one also is really strong, but maybe give the person a chance to respond before you punch them, just in case they have a really good reason why you shouldn't. The other disadvantage is that unlike a normal roleblock, it can't shut down the faction kill unless they're the last scum left, because they know it happened.

I think DGB claimed that her role is passive, so she might be a safe target to use your SUPLEX on, but if you want to do that you should still probably give her a chance to respond first.

[Yosarian2]

We could get a double lynch you know

Hmm. If we do want to do a double lynch, your abilities could help with that. But I'm not sure we still do at this point.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, ABR just totally went off the deep end for absolutely no logical reason in the adventure chat, as I think everyone else in chat can attest to.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, ABR just totally went off the deep end for absolutely no logical reason in the adventure chat, as I think everyone else in chat can attest to.

so what happened?

I jumped to a wrong conclusion about someone's role. (Probably shouldn't be more specific then that in thread). ABR somehow jumped to the crazy-land conclusion that I "scum slipped" and "knew something I couldn't have known" or something like that, even though A: my assumption made perfect sense in context, B: I wasn't the first person to make that assumption, and C: it turns out my assumption was totally wrong anyway. He then ranted for about a page about how he had "caught all the scum", crowed, and generally made an ass of himself. I think he's now coming to the realization that he was totally wrong about everything and leaped to totally the wrong conclusion for absolutely no reason, but he still hasn't explained exactally how or why or even what he was thinking.

Whatever.

[Yosarian2]

In the efforts of moving this game forward, I'm going to re-post something that I just posted in the other thread. This is not a detailed list or anything, and I am both tired and totally off kilter right now, so consider these half asleep and emotionally exhausted Yos thoughts.

Let's move on. Who do you think are the scum?

I should make a list in thread to get my thoughts in order again. I am so off-kilter right now it's not even funny.

Rough preview:

Klingoncelt- ?

The Cool Cucumbers (wgeurts & cerberus v666) - keep getting this gut feeling they are suspicious, mostly because they spend so much time talking about mechanics and so little scumhunting. Also all of their reads seem to be just ever so slightly off in a way that strikes me as weird. I do agree with a lot of what he says, but part of my brain still suspects him.

Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie) - Going to give them time to see if they get "confirmed" in thread

Drixx - Weak town lean

Zulfy Wickedestjr - probably town

Rylai and Lina (Shiro & Frozen Angel) - Very town


Skybird - Likely town. The issue with the temp hatred vs perm hatred is the only potential case against her, but we can test that. If she really does have a temp hatred/ roleblock ability she's never ever used, she's probably town, and we should be able to prove that tonight.

Albert B. Rampage - Solid town still.


DrippingGoofball - ? Got a good vibe from her day 1, but nothing I want to bet the game on. Does need to post more.

Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi) - Probably town. even Lowell's paranoia about me here is probably a town tell in context.


Fluminator - Likely town


Sensei - Town

ZZZX - ?

Don't really have any strong scum reads left at the moment.

Actually, maybe I should just post this list in thread and maybe fill it in with more detail later. Probably leaning towards votign either Klingon or CC right now.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, why does skybird having a temp>perm hated make her likely town?

If a scum had a roleblock + a temporary hatred ability, I would assume they would use it to their advantage. I mean, can you imagine a scum roleblocker just never using their roleblock just so they can claim town roleblocker later?

[Yosarian2]

@ yoyo

who do you think is scum? cos I see you clearing a lot of town but I am not seeing where you are narrowing down your choices into a scum pool. but mebbe I missed it.

Probably leaning towards votign either Klingon or CC right now

But yeah, that's mostly based on process of elimination right now.

[Yosarian2]

@ yoyo

who do you think is scum? cos I see you clearing a lot of town but I am not seeing where you are narrowing down your choices into a scum pool. but mebbe I missed it.

Probably leaning towards votign either Klingon or CC right now

But yeah, that's mostly based on process of elimination right now.

walk me through the cuke pple read plz?

There have been a lot of little things about that slot that have pinged me as off.

They seem to engage in very long discussions about the mechanics and setup of the game while generally avoiding talking about people's alignments. That can be a scum tell, because scum often find it easier to talk about mechanics and mafia theory (which are, after all, objective and clear) instead of faking reads.

One especially weird example of this was the way that they spent so much time in a semantic/ mechanical argument to convince Drixx to not give me rings on day 1, even though they didn't seem to scum read me. In fact, during that whole discussion, they avoided saying anything about my alignment at all, instead talking totally in the hypothetical about "giving someone power", and they argued with real passion about that hypothetical mafia theory discussion. And when I called them on it, they finally admitted that they weren't actually scumreading me. The whole tone of their posts often makes me think that they're looking at this game from a distance, not like someone who is personally involved in it.

Another example of this "mechanics over role-reads" was the way they tried so hard to make sure we got a double-lynch on day 1, but didn't talk much about their read on Cooldog specifically. Like, they wanted to get a double lynch off because that was mechanically the right move from a mafia-theory perspective (I don't disagree with that) but they didn't really seem to care who the double lynch targeted, didn't seem interested in actually discussing Cooldog's alignment, and in fact anytime anyone else did try to start that discussion, they shut it down by attacking them for "getting in the way of a double-lynch". Again, mechanics over reads.

I will say that I'm not sure how much of that is alignment-indicative, and how much is just playstyle. But it's been a trend all game.

Now, when they do post reads, most of them make sense. They usually post a pretty good list of town-reads and such. But the actual details of who they vote always feels just a little off to me. Day 1, he ended up voting for Cooldog, but never really explained if he thought Cooldog or Max were more likely to be scum by the end of the day. Yesterday, he never really gave a read on Gale at all (at least, not until Gale completely broke down and claimed to be acting scummy on purpose or something). He did come out against hammering ABR early because the day wasn't over yet, and then a few posts later came out against hammering Gale because it was early and the day wasn't over yet; again, he just keeps putting mechanical concerns in front, instead of talking about who he thinks is scum.

It's not a strong read, it's just a lot of little things, and I don't have a high degree of confidence in my read on him. If CC is scum, he's skilled at it, at shading his posts just slightly to benifit his side. But I kind of think he is; at least, he's more likely to be scum then most other people in the game.

vote: The Cool Cucumbers

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian
Please read my scum games. I am not skilled as Mafia, I have never helped a scum team win ever.
As for the reads thing, you'll find that cerb is one going all mechanics heavy as he doesn't have the time to form reads he is confident in. I on the other hand am happy to discuss any of my reads, and try to give them whenever I can. I've been busy celebrating carnival for the first time today so I'm sorry I didn't post what I promised I would. What cerb is doing is how he plays, meta him if you must. As for me, do the same.

People are scum reading everything cerb is doing and that's caused due to him basically being VLA the last few weeks. I'm not going to allow anyone to push us for that. If you have issues with our actual play please mention it and I'll try and show you what the hell we were thinking right then.
~wgeurts

I think I just explained my issues with your hydra's actual play. It just seems to be consistently too mechanical-focused and mafia theory-focused and not focused enough on scumhunting. Also, the way your hydra reacted during both times we lynched a scum doesn't seem especally pro-town.

It has nothing to with with Cerb being V/la for the past few weeks, it's the overall pattern of your hydra's play all game.

Like I said, though, it's not a really strong read, and I'm not all that confident you are scum. Part of it at this point is just process of elimination. Your best bet right now is probably to try to make a strong case against someone else and convince me that they are a better lynch then you are today.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I still think we lynch CC today. If he's telling the truth, he's still a quasi-SK who's win condition requires him to kill multiple townies. He says he wins with the town, but if he has to kill all the townies to find the vigs, I suspect the town still loses.

And I.don't think he's quite telling the whole truth here.

[Yosarian2]

There are scenarios where you can benefit from keeping a third-party around. This is one of them.

No, it is not.

If we belived you were telling the whole truth, and town was close to losing (say, it was day 3 and we hadn't lynched any scum), and needed a really desperate hail-mary pass to win, then maybe we keep you alive.

But as it is right now, we've already lynched 2 scum and a SK. Which means that right now, your role as claimed is anti-town. You can not afford to let the town win until you've found all the vigs, which means
A: You will try to stop us from lynching scum
B: You will try to out town power roles and get people to claim
and
C: You will keep shooting townies in order to try to eliminate all the vigs.

So, no. You have an anti-town role, especially in the current situation. And that's if you're telling the full truth which, again, I doubt. Sorry CC, but you basically just claimed scum, and we will now need to lynch you.

[Yosarian2]

ABR: I got it. Like I said in party chat, it doesn't look like a terribly useful ability.

[Yosarian2]

I'm thinking that if the scum have another unlynchable role, which they might, you never know, TCC's tree stump may prove useful to us. Perhaps it may be advisable to steady our hand for a few days and let this play out.

Even if the scum an unlynchable role, I wouldn't trust TCC to kill them for us, since if the scum lose and there are still vigs left so does he, if he's even telling the truth.

[Yosarian2]

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

[Yosarian2]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

[Yosarian2]

Also, please, everybody stop speculating about how many vigs we have. I realize that's partly my fault but still. You're spilling information all over the place.

[Yosarian2]

For example, at some point we'll want to confirm R&L's claim ... but having their voices still around afterward would be super helpful ... while also knowing that they were telling the truth and we know the people they cleared are conftown.

Uh. We ARE NOT going to kill R&L just to "confirn" them. And yes, from the pov of the town win condition, a tree stump is the same as dead.

If you think R&L are scum and we should kill then, make your case. At least ABR made a case against tgem. You trying to kill them just to "confirm them" is bad bad bad badbadbadbadbad.

where did abr make his case?

Not going to go back and make ABR's case for him, especally when I dont agree with it, (I still think R&L is town) but to start with i think this was a fair point.

Rylai tried to lynch me yesterday to save Gale.

At least I understand why hypo-town-ABR would scumread R&L for that.


Drixx I don't get at all here.

[Yosarian2]

3 - I hated the way she voted me last day over gale!


3 - Fuck you

is there anymore questions?!

~Rylai

Uh. You voted someone who was obvtown, very nearly quicklynchinh him, in what could easily be read as an attempt to save obvscum.

Do you really not understand why a reasonable person would look at that and be suspicious you are scum with Gale?.

This is not helping you. At least admit that you screwed up, understand that it looks scummy, and move on. Lashing out irrationally like this just makes you look bad.

[Yosarian2]

<snip>

that...is not a case.

see abr LIED several times made horrible pushes, rolefished like a mofo w/o coming clean about his own role while simultaneously demanding a claim from every1 in the game. the push on rylai is HORRIBLE and looks desperate and you keep stating that abr's childish temper tantrums are somehow town is something that nobody else in this game can possibly understand.

Sure. Honestly, though, none of that matters much. What matters is that we came within a hair of a speedlynch being pushed through on a townie right when a scum was about to be lynched. It seems very, very likely that scum were pushing the ABR wagon yesterday. Not all scum, but some, I'd bet.

If you're town, then the odds of other people pushing that wagon being scum go up even more. And the timing of R&L's vote was especally bad.

Doesn't prove R&L is scum, but it's a perfectly reasonably reason to suspect them. And the way she's reacting to pressure isn't great either.

Overall we have way too much drama in this thread. R&L, people have the right to suspect you; this is a mafia game, that's the whole point. Don't take it personally.

[Yosarian2]

If not we're lynching TCC and DGB or just lynching DGB and tree stumping ABR since he likes it.

Ugh. Now you want to kill ABR because OMGUS even though you've been town reading him?

[Yosarian2]

Overall we have way too much drama in this thread. R&L, people have the right to suspect you; this is a mafia game, that's the whole point. Don't take it personally.

Its not me taking it personally

Its him making my personality like a scum tell

If I understand this right, he sees you doing something he's seen you do before as scum so he suspects you, right?

That's not unreasonable either. I get that your defense is that you always do it, and that's also fine, but he is allowed to try and meta you. None of this is him doing anything wrong or inappropriate, it's all pretty standard scumhunting stuff and i don't get why you reacted so violently to it.

But let's get back to your reads. Can you explain why you think DGB is actually scum and not just a townie who can't keep up with this game's pace? DGB's voting record looks pretty decent overall to me, and her suspicion on zxxx seems reasonable in context.

[Yosarian2]

Or responded to any of my suggestions for ensuring we're not a threat and get to actually win as 3p instead of just autolosing when we claim.

Your plan does not really work at containing you. And on the off chance you don't already know why, I am not going to explain it to you, for obvious reasons.

[Yosarian2]

Cerb: even if you are 100% telling the truth, you are still a threat to the town and to the town win condition. You could very well kill us all and win as a SK, by your own admission. Any attempt to contain you is risky and imperfect for us and prone to eventually fail, and you know it.

Now if there was someone else I was almost sure was mafia then maybe I'd lynch them before you, but let's be clear here; the town is better off if you are dead.

[Yosarian2]

Cerb: even if you are 100% telling the truth, you are still a threat to the town and to the town win condition. You could very well kill us all and win as a SK, by your own admission. Any attempt to contain you is risky and imperfect for us and prone to eventually fail, and you know it.

Now if there was someone else I was almost sure was mafia then maybe I'd lynch them before you, but let's be clear here; the town is better off if you are dead.

But why would I do that Yosarian? Assuming I am 100% telling the truth, that is only possible if we end up in a 3p situation going into the night phase, and scum shoot town and I shoot scum, or we shoot one another, or whatever. Like, that whole scenario is ONLY a risk in super late game, which I have NO chance of being part of. It's purely a paranoia lynch at this point, NOT a logical lynch. Scum HAVE to lynch me in 3p lylo, so we couldn't end up in a situation where they'd move to lynch the last townie over me. AND every single suggestion I've made has included the caveat that I be lynched after we get 2 scum and the game isnt over, or when we hit 7p alive, whichever comes first. Hell, 8 people alive, since we're at 14, and that means 3 day/night cycles without extra kills and allows for an extra kill to happen on the third day and not result in a town loss if I were lying.

-Cerb

mollie: are you going to answer my questions?

This is all total BS, for two separate reasons.

1. "Lynch me when you get to 7 players alive" is obvious nonsense, because we clearly can't lynch if we get to lynch or lose.

2. If you get to a 3 player lylo, then the most likely result is you win and everyone dies, because you're bulletproof and have a nightkill. Probably a no-lynch happens, you kill the last townie, and it doesn't matter what the scum does; and then you and the last scum face off and you win. Just like how the bulletproof SK generally wins lynch or lose situations. Only way the town could stop you at that point would be by lynching you and letting the mafia win.

Really, the town only has 2 decent choices here. Lynch you today, right now, and eliminate the threat you pose to the town, or let you live for the rest of the game and just hope that somehow things turn out OK. That second option is especially dicey because you're bulletproof, so if we don't lynch you right now, you probably do survive until the end of the game. All your talk about "containing you" and "oh if I do something wrong you can lynch me then" or whatever is just that, talk; none of it is likely to work for the town, and again I'm pretty sure you know that.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, how is the 7 players alive thing nonsense? We have a SK and 2 scum flips. Do you think there are 3 scum AND me remaining? It's far more likely that there are *2* scum and me remaining. If there are 2 scum, and me, then in order to ensure that I'm not groupscum hiding behind this claim, you lynch me at 7 people, and you have successfully passed LYLO #1. If you seriously think there are 3 scum plus me left, then sure, the same things apply, you just lynch us at 9 players instead of 7. There is nothing nonsensical about it.

Are you really going to pretend you haven't gamed this all out? Because I'm pretty sure you have.

If we say "Ok, we lynch CC when there are 7 people left alive", then the game won't get to a state where there are "7 people left alive",

because you have a nightkill

. You have the ability to kill someone that night and make it so there are only 6 people left alive, and then, gee, we can't lynch you, how convinenet.

I mean, maybe we still have a roleblocker alive that can stop you, maybe we don't. That would be a hell of a thing to bet the game on.

Plus, this probably goes without saying, but it's much better for the town if using a day 3 lynch on you instead of a day 5 lynch or whatever; the later a lynch is, the more info the town has, the more the lynch is worth.

"Wait a few days and lynch me later" is really not a realistic option. And, again, you've clearly thought this all through, so I'm pretty sure you already know this.

And yes, of course the most likely result in a 3p lylo is I win, EXCEPT WHY WOULD SCUM EVER LET ME LIVE KNOWING IF I LIVE THEY LOSE??

The scum can't kill you, and the townie won't vote for you, because the townie will hope that you'll kill the scum at night instead of him. You won't, of course, you'll murder the last townie and then dance on his grave laughing, but hope springs eternal, and a small hope is better then a guarenteed scum win. So it'll go to no-lynch, and then you'll murder everyone and win.

This isn't a long-shot, either; if we don't lynch you today, it is very likely to happen.

[Yosarian2]

@ yoyo - are you going to answer my question? 5th time I am asking you!

What is the question, exactally?

[Yosarian2]

@ yoyo - are you going to answer my question? 5th time I am asking you!

What is the question, exactally?

you have been clearing town left and right and shld have a pretty good poe list right about now.

who is scum?

I answered that question like 10 pages ago. At the time, I was thinking CC and Klingon were likely.

Now, we know CC is anti-town but may or may not be team scum, so we lynch him and see what kind of scum he flips as and then recalibarate.

I still think Klingon is likely scum; SOMEONE on that Albert wagon yesterday has to be. Beyond that, I donno.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, DP, R&L: If lynching me was off the table, who do you guys lynch today and why?

Not interested in helping you sidetrack your lynch, CC.

pedit: Why would the townie EVER BELIEVE ME OVER THE SCUM????????

Townie knows that if he helps the scum lynch you, that's a 100% town loss. If he doesn't, it's probably a 95% likely town loss, but still better then 100%. So he doesn't, because play to win.

It doesn't make any sense, and it will be obvious to all the involved parties that a lynch needs to happen. The 3p scenario is still immaterial though, because I won't ever live that long.

You keep saying that, but you're bulletproof, and if we don't lynch you today you probably live until the end of the game. I know that, and you know that, and I know you know that.

Did you miss the part where I said we could go to 8 instead? That actually accounts for an extra kill. How about 10? Why would you NOT just lynch me if pieces of the puzzle that keeps me chained start to die?

It makes no sense for the town to wait and lynch you later in any case; it's better to lynch you early then to waste a later lynch on you.

The scenario you're positing to force a sense of urgency into our lynch requires that town all go simultaneously brain dead. If the roleblockers that are containing me die, LYNCH ME. How hard is that?

It might be quite hard, depending on how the game setup has changed. I think the town is much better off just lynching you now. It's safer all around. Plus, no sense tying up a town roleblocker forever anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Bah, screwed up the quote tags; mod you can delete that last post.

I just fixed it.
Because I don't like deleting posts.

Yosarian, DP, R&L: If lynching me was off the table, who do you guys lynch today and why?

Not interested in helping you sidetrack your lynch, CC.

pedit: Why would the townie EVER BELIEVE ME OVER THE SCUM????????

Townie knows that if he helps the scum lynch you, that's a 100% town loss. If he doesn't, it's probably a 95% likely town loss, but still better then 100%. So he doesn't, because play to win.

It doesn't make any sense, and it will be obvious to all the involved parties that a lynch needs to happen. The 3p scenario is still immaterial though, because I won't ever live that long.

You keep saying that, but you're bulletproof, and if we don't lynch you today you probably live until the end of the game. I know that, and you know that, and I know you know that.

Did you miss the part where I said we could go to 8 instead? That actually accounts for an extra kill. How about 10? Why would you NOT just lynch me if pieces of the puzzle that keeps me chained start to die?

It makes no sense for the town to wait and lynch you later in any case; it's better to lynch you early then to waste a later lynch on you.

The scenario you're positing to force a sense of urgency into our lynch requires that town all go simultaneously brain dead. If the roleblockers that are containing me die, LYNCH ME. How hard is that?

It might be quite hard, depending on how the game setup has changed. I think the town is much better off just lynching you now. It's safer all around. Plus, no sense tying up a town roleblocker forever anyway.

[Yosarian2]

pedit: Yosarian, I am not fucking anti-town. I am third party. Do not misrepresent me.

Your role, as you have claimed it, is extremely anti-town. It's somewhere between a survivor and a SK, both of which are anti-town roles.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, let's be real here Yos: Why are you even bothering to engage with me? You seem pretty adamant about lynching me, as do R&L and DP. I'm dumping a buncha time of my life here because you're talking to me, but you're still being just as stubborn as they are.

I'm obviously not expecting to convince you that you should be lynched. I'm taking apart your bogus arguments so the rest of the town can also see that.

And, hey, if you actually had a real reason why it's safer to leave you alive then to kill you, I'd be willing to listen. But "you can lynch me later" makes no sense; lynching you later instead of lynching you now doesn't by the town any extra days or any extra lynches, it doesn't increase the town's odds of victory at all, it just creates an extra risk to the town for not much benifit.

[Yosarian2]

Scum miller is a thing.

I believe that Yosarian2 scum slipped in the Party PT. I would like votes OFF of TCC temporarily as fast as possible. Do it so the day doesn't get ended prematurely. I will post again when he has satisfied me that it's not a slip, or else the post will out how he slipped and be accompanied by my vote and hopefully a bunch more.

Oh for fuck's sake.

[Yosarian2]

plz tell me what is going on.

I'm expecting Drixx to come back into thread in a few minutes and explain that he was being an idiot and was wrong about everything.

Unfortunately, it's not something we can discuss in the open in main thread without hurting the town, which is part of the reason it was SO FREAKING DUMB of him to dump that shit in here without even talking to me first.

[Yosarian2]

hindu he has. he isn't lynching rylai cos he thinks she is scum if he is town but because he doesn't like her.

That's really not fair. ABR was townreading and defending and working with R&L for most of the game. When he did start to suspect them he had decent reasons for it.

By the way I am going to laugh so hard if you eventually flip flying ninja shark

[Yosarian2]

hindu he has. he isn't lynching rylai cos he thinks she is scum if he is town but because he doesn't like her.

That's really not fair. ABR was townreading and defending and working with R&L for most of the game. When he did start to suspect them he had decent reasons for it.

By the way I am going to laugh so hard if you eventually flip flying ninja shark

I WANT TO BE A FLYING ROLEBLOCKING HATED NINJA SHARK DAMMIT

what were those reasons yoyo? cos we aren't privy to what is going on ad I keep asking for some1 to explain it to me and no1 will.

it feels like a deliberate move to drive town into pathy cos I am pretty sure we are the only 1s who give a damn right now who is not in your party thread.

[Yosarian2]

hindu he has. he isn't lynching rylai cos he thinks she is scum if he is town but because he doesn't like her.

That's really not fair. ABR was townreading and defending and working with R&L for most of the game. When he did start to suspect them he had decent reasons for it.

By the way I am going to laugh so hard if you eventually flip flying ninja shark

I WANT TO BE A FLYING ROLEBLOCKING HATED NINJA SHARK DAMMIT

what were those reasons yoyo? cos we aren't privy to what is going on ad I keep asking for some1 to explain it to me and no1 will.

it feels like a deliberate move to drive town into pathy cos I am pretty sure we are the only 1s who give a damn right now who is not in your party thread.

He explained in thread. The end of day counterwagon on him they pushed that almost saved a scum from being lynched, meta that he's seen them act like this as scum before, and skepticism about the mechanics of their claimed role. Overall reasonable points for the most part.

Of course, he spead them out and mixed in a ton of short posts demanding they die and whatnot, but I tune those out. He always does that. Hell he did it to me a few pages ago and he's the guy who invited me to join this game in the first place.

[Yosarian2]

So what do you think of Rylay Yos?

Still leaning town on that role. My read did take a hit with that Albert vote at just the wrong moment, and another, bigger hit with the way she reacted to pressure today. Still, there's other things they've done that seem more likely to come from town.

[Yosarian2]

it feels like a deliberate move to drive town into pathy

On a side note, now you're the one echoing what's going on in the adventure thread, lol. Albert said almost the same thing, that the constant rush of weird things from the party thread into here are going to cause apathy.

[Yosarian2]

...

CC and DGB needs to die yet

I think DGB is the one with the other hated/RB role and Cool is the main villain. ...

~Rylai

CC stays alive as long as they're useful. They will likely die before endgame. But not now.

They're bulletproof. They only die if we lynch them.

And if we're going to lynch them eventually, we're much better off if we do it now, before they murder any more townies (which, have no doubt, they are going to continue to do, no matter what they claim).

[Yosarian2]

And if we're going to lynch them eventually, we're much better off if we do it now, before they murder any more townies

While I get where your mindset is coming from in the now rather than later, why don't you just want to leave them alive and control their stump? I think we can get a bit of utility out of this, or at least we can look in other directions for now while we mull it over.

I think the odds of us "controlling their stump" are low. I think if we try, tommorow they'll have killed someone else and they'll say "lol I thought that guy was scum" or "Ok ok but that was the last vig so I'll be good from now on i swear" or whatever and then people will probably let them go again anyway.

The idea of keeping them role-blocked forever isn't a great one either; I mean, if we really aren't going to lynch them, then yeah we should have Zulfy or Sky block them, but tying up one of our roleblocks forever isn't a great use of resources, and then are we going to lynch CC when our roleblockers die? Again, why not just do it now?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian that's crumpets. If we shoot tonight you just lynch us then instead of now, we cannot win with one kill.
There will be no "oops", as if we do you simply lynch us. Period
¬wgeurts

You really telling me that you wouldn't try if you decided there was a vig left and you were pretty sure you knew who it was? Or maybe if you thought you could kill someone you think is a scum and maybe get some town cred?

I don't see any reason to trust that you'll hold your fire. I expect you to act towards your win condition, and then talk your way out of it later.

[Yosarian2]

Sure, maybe you'll be cautious and wait until the town can't afford to kill you to go on a killing spree. It's possible. But either way, you are going to be playing counter to the town win condition. You don't even want the town to win "too soon" and will be working to sabatoge that, both at night and during the day. Just like you have all game.

[Yosarian2]

I feel like reading him in iso he's trying to be the town's den mother, which bugs me.

Shh. It's ok. Have some milk and cookies, you'll feel better.

Seriously, I really think there's just something in my normal playstyle that you just always read as scum. Yeah, I tend to lead the town in general; that's just my personality.

[Yosarian2]

Due to the rules infraction being on Frozen Angel's part, I will allow Shiro to replace into the slot on two conditions:
1. A majority of the players agree that this is okay
2. Shiro wants to replace in

That's fine by me

[Yosarian2]

If we're really not lynching CC today (for some reason), then we are going to need to make sure Zulfy uses his ability on him to shut CC down before the end of the day. Also be a good way to test Zulfy's claim.

Hey, Zulfy, if you don't have a better idea of how to use your abilities today, you could shut down CC's active abilities and passive abilities at the same time, even, just to be sure.

I do like ABR's case against Sky, overall; I still am not confident she'll flip scum, but she's not one of my strong town reads.

[Yosarian2]

We can't end the day until Zulfy uses his ability on CC.

[Yosarian2]

I will vote sky once zulfy roleblocks tcc.

[Yosarian2]

I will vote sky once zulfy roleblocks tcc.

Exactly. If wgeurts earlier vote didn't count(I'm curious, so just waiting to see a vc), I'll vote then as well.

Do we want to give Fluminator the hammer?

-Cerb

Not especally. If everyone is telling the truth, then it doesnt matter while Lowell is alive.

[Yosarian2]

UNVOTE:
Yes, not giving me the hammer if the same as keeping away a new town utility. It's not about the bullet proof.

I'm confused.

You claimed the hammer only gives you a replacement bulletproof.

If you're telling the truth here the i don't think that gives the town any real utility at this point.

Is there something more your hammer does?

[Yosarian2]

I think you might be misunderstanding his power Yosarian.

He gains soul powers from hammers
He has a 1-shot bulletproof.
His 1-shot bulletproof refills when he uses a power he gained from a hammer.

Is that accurate Flum?

So, if we think he's town, then it *does* make sense to give him the hammer. If we don't think he's town, then obviously we shouldn't give him the hammer.

Also, unrelated, but yosarian, if you aren't going to have a use for whatever that ring gave you, it's probably optimal to give it back to sensei to hold on to. He's a safe place to keep it because he can't die, and he can always trade it back to you when you need it. There's the issue that scum will know you specifically asked for it on a certain day, but unless you're positive scum can't use them for anything, it's better to not risk scum killing you and getting them from your body.

-Cerb

My role clearly says that nobody but me can use the rings.

It's not totally worthless., but it'd only be useful in very specific situations.

[Yosarian2]

The fact that CC is trying to get Flum more powers is srsly weird, and is making me doubt his claimed win condition.

[Yosarian2]

What about DGB? DP said you and Yos convinced them she was town, and you've been saying she was town all game.

-Cerb

pedit: yos, read my earlier post. I said I want NEITHER of you to get powers, because there's a risk you'll gain vigs, making me potentially lose, and because there's a risk that you're scum. I was mainly raging about the fact that there should be no double standard, we don't know either of your alignments, therefore it doesn't make sense to give one of you power while refusing to give the other power. We should just not give either power.

I'm not stumping him tonight unless you guys like...get way mor epeople saying to stump flum tonight if skybird flips town.

I'm not going to get lynched tomorrow because I followed the wrong peoples orders. :-/

:slaps forehead: Is this why you've been trying to keep me from getting rings all game?

TCC, all my rings give me global powers, not individually targeted powers. I said that way back on day 1. Based on how the mod described the role, I'm pretty sure it's not possible for me to get a vig kill in a ring.

[Yosarian2]

Can I please hear your thoughts on shooting fluminator if skybird flips town, and shooting zulfy if skybird flips scum?

Don't shoot anyone tonight. In fact, I was pretty sure that you had already promised that you were not going to do that.

[Yosarian2]

This is great news.

This is what happens, ABR. You were desperate to have my powers wasted but theyll end up lynching you.

Cucumbers are rbed, can't vote.
Neither can ABR.
VOTE: ABR

No one is going to lynch ABR today.

[Yosarian2]

Zulfy, i think you are probably town, but if you don't unvote ABR in your next post, I am going to have to vote for you. If it really does come down to him or you, we are lynching you, so you really don't want it to come to that.

[Yosarian2]

Sky, since we are apparently not lynching you right now, we are going to need you to demonstrate your role tonight to prove you have a temp hatred and roleblock. Do not target anyone who already has a hatred or fire vote on them though.

[Yosarian2]

Sky, since we are apparently not lynching you right now, we are going to need you to demonstrate your role tonight to prove you have a temp hatred and roleblock. Do not target anyone who already has a hatred or fire vote on them though.

Who do you all want me to target?

If you are town, don't announce your roleblock target in thread. If you announce it you have zero chance of stopping the scumkill. Plus scum could screw with you in other ways if you do.

Just use your best judgement and try not to screw up lol.

[Yosarian2]

Removing our passive DOES remove our bp. That's bad for us, but it might be good for town overall. I hope you can all see why.

-Cerb

I think I should spell this out and make this as explicit as possible. (After all, this is why I asked Zulfy to take away your passive.)

IF THERE IS A TOWN VIG LEFT ALIVE, NOTE THIS: TCC, THE GUY WHO HAS CLAIMED HE HAS TO KILL YOU IN ORDER TO WIN, IS NOT GOING TO HAVE HIS BULLETPROOF PROTECTION TONIGHT. THIS WILL BE YOUR ONLY SHOT TO VIG HIM.

TCC, if you are still alive in the morning, then you will know, for a FACT, that there are no town vigs left, which means that maybe I will be able to trust you to work with us at lynching scum instead of trying to hunt for town vigs.

[Yosarian2]

ftr, it isn't what he is saying cos I agree with him its cos he used the shouty font.

This thread moves fast and it's easy to miss stuff. I just want to make sure there is absolutely no doubt that everyone saw it.

After all, this gambit only works if it is absolutely, 100% certain and clear to everyone, especially TCC, know for a fact that that any town vigs who might still be alive know that

THE COOL CUCUMBERS, THE GUY WHO HAS CLAIMED HE HAS TO KILL ALL TOWN VIGS YOU IN ORDER TO WIN, IS NOT GOING TO HAVE HIS BULLETPROOF PROTECTION TONIGHT, AND THAT THIS WILL BE THEIR ONLY CHANCE TO VIG HIM.

So I wanted to make sure that nobody missed that.

You think people will get the message?

[Yosarian2]

Because the paranoia on me is stupid and keeping me away from cool powers.

For the record, I wasn't paranoid about you until you took Bester as your avatar.

[Yosarian2]

Fuck off Yosarian2. We were never going to shoot without towns approval and you KNOW it, because you should know by now that we're not idiots.

CC, don't take it personally. But you don't have a town win condition, you are not a protagonist, which means I do not trust you to act in the town's win condition unless you are forced to. And even then I expect you to stab us in the back as soon as possible.

And no, I don't really expect "do what we say or else we lynch you" to keep you "leashed", not by itself. I've seen that tried before, and it never, ever works.

How many vigs may be left was fucking immaterial, there was never going to be a time when taking a shot and hoping to hit one of them would exist (without us gaining further powers so as to make two shots in one night), because there would still be fucking scum alive and so we'd be lynched for doing it the next day.

Let me put it this way. Until you know, for a fact, that there are no vigs left, I wouldn't expect you to put your full heart into actually trying to find and eliminate the scum. Until you are sure of that, it's in your best interest to be a roadblock, both at day and at night.

Now, either you're going to be dead, or else you're going to know for a fact that your interests lie with helping the town win as quickly as possible. From the town's point of view, that's a pure win-win.

Do whatever the fuck you want. If we live until tomorrow so be it.

Don't take this personally, man. I'm playing for the town win condition the best way I know how.

And, Yosarian: if you're not scum, and that was motivated by the best interests of town, know that you're just removing a threat to scum for them, that they wouldn't have ever wanted to spend a shot on because we're a spare mislynch for them.

If there is a vig left, then you are a threat to the town, period. Sooner or later that vig will be in a position where he or she will have to claim, and when he or she does, then we're going to have a REAL issue if you're still alive.

If there are no vigs left, and we KNOW that YOU know there are no vigs left, then maybe we can start to work with you.

I know it seems harsh, but this is still a much better deal then I was willing to offer you a few days ago.

[Yosarian2]

Yes, because you couldn't get my fucking lynch, so you have to settle for this, enabled by zulfy the incompetent and mollie the mis-fucking-leading.

My greatest strength and curse in this stupid games is a hyper awareness of scum and town motivations for things. It makes it incredibly difficult to determine which is more likely behind any given players actions.

I see both in your case, but don't try to act like what you're doing isn't the EXACT same thing you'd do as scum in this spot.

-Cerb

No, if I was scum and you are in fact telling the truth, I'd want to lynch you tomorrow and tie up another whole day with this.

Scum don't want you to get vigged, not when even you have made such a point of saying that you should be lynched before endgame.

[Yosarian2]

Its literally me or ABR.

You can all justify a lynch on liza however you want, that Im a loose cannon/anti town/whatever bs you wanna make up, but voting me is voting for a town player with great town utility.

Im done with ABR either way. Either he is out or I am.

Ive explained all of my actions today, you can be willfully ignorant but you can't claim a lynch on me is pro town.

Zulfy, you have to unvote RIGHT NOW or else we are going to have to lynch you. If you unvote right now, then maybe, maybe we will end up doing a no-lynch. But we're not lynching the obv-town doctor of you, no way, in no circumstnaces. And keeping your vote on him the way you are is anti-town and super dangerous.

[Yosarian2]

Shiro/Yosarian: Please confirm neither of you targeted DGB on N1.


-Cerb

I did not.

[Yosarian2]

vote: no lynch

[Yosarian2]

So Shiro targeted DGB on the first night and got hated?
Did she get a message it failed or not if DGB is ascetic?

Varsoon made a point in thread somewhere of saying that we would only be informed of a failure of our action if it were one which returned a result. I assume Shiro did not receive a message as a result, since what they targeted DGB with was a limited roleblock, NOT something which gives a result. We also did not receive any sort of confirmation of our N1 action failing when we targeted DP.

And yes, Shiro targeted DGB on the first night and was hated the next day, along with Yosarian, who, as we see below did not target DGB, but we have a targeted RB/Hater who has flipped, which explains HIS permanent hate.

Shiro/Yosarian: Please confirm neither of you targeted DGB on N1.


-Cerb

I did not.

Have you read my posts about the implications of Shiro having targeted DGB N1? Thoughts?

-Cerb

Yeah, it makes sense, and could explain things. DGB might be scum. Want to see her come in here and claom.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo dgb claimed ascetic.

Yeah, but she didn't full claim yet.

[Yosarian2]

Sensei why? You literally destroyed the point of losing a day to go to Nelson.

You could have at least warned us about it.

Yeah, that's a really, really bizzare move; Sensei just made all us waste the entire adventure.

[Yosarian2]

vote:DGB

DGB, we need a full claim from you. now. Also we need to know if you are temporarily hated now.

[Yosarian2]

I came in here wanting to vote dgb but that nk...that does not look like a dgb nk in any way shape or form. it looks like a newbscum trying to frame dgb. I'd say 2014 or some1 pretty young.

eta: @ yoyo - but does that honestly look like a dgb nk to you? I agree that dgb needs to claim tho.

That's a fair point.

Still, I think we need a full claim and an explanation from DGB before we can move on, don't you? If nothing else we need a claim from her so people stop bumping into her and getting zapped.

(It's also possible that zyyy was killed by someone else, and that DGB's group failed to kill because DGB was roleblocked. Although I'm not sure why anyone would kill zyyy right now.)

[Yosarian2]

I blocked DGB and now permanently take one less vote to be lynched.

You or him? Why was my hate temporary?

Everyone who targeted DGB seems to have gotten perm-hated. I also got perm hated, which probably means I was targeted by Gale.

Itlepip's role did a roleblock plus a temp-hatred. Sky claims her role does that as well.

[Yosarian2]

I came in here wanting to vote dgb but that nk...that does not look like a dgb nk in any way shape or form. it looks like a newbscum trying to frame dgb. I'd say 2014 or some1 pretty young.

eta: @ yoyo - but does that honestly look like a dgb nk to you? I agree that dgb needs to claim tho.

That's a fair point.

Still, I think we need a full claim and an explanation from DGB before we can move on, don't you? If nothing else we need a claim from her so people stop bumping into her and getting zapped.

(It's also possible that zyyy was killed by someone else, and that DGB's group failed to kill because DGB was roleblocked. Although I'm not sure why anyone would kill zyyy right now.)

Follow up - actually, people wouldn't kill zyyy to frame DGB. Zyyy was about to rolecop Shiro when he died. So either they were trying to frame her, or they just didn't want Shiro to be confirmed (in the process confirming Sensei and semi-confirming Zulfy), or else Shiro killed him to stop the investigation.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure why skybird decided to roleblock DGB, though. Now that you mention it because there was better people to block that we told her to. So it does kinda smell like a last minute gambit type thing to try and buy sky some townpoints. But meh.

At the end of the day, I told her if she's town, she should use her own judgement on who to block, because that's the only way she has a shot of stopping the scum kill.

And she chose to block someone who both looks scummy and who has implied she doesn't have any night actions to screw up, which makes perfect sense.

[Yosarian2]

Which she still hasn't done yet, mind you, because she decided to try it out on a claimed ascetic.

We'll see. I tend to doubt that DGB has a role that both "hatreds everyone who targets her" and "is untargetable". There are a few possibilities here, but we'll wait for DGB to come back and claim.

Until she does, let's assume she is hated and will take 1 less lynch then normal to lynch, just to be safe.

[Yosarian2]

- which being the MC is my fucking choice and not yours -

Sensei, it was bad play to switch everyone and not even tell us before. It was anti-town. I mean I might have chosen a different ability if I had known that. And it's bad play to give adventuring slots to people you discribe as "weaker town reads". All of these things are clearly mistakes, at best.

Drixx isn't being irrational calling you out about that. And you saying "Oh I get to do whatever I fucking want because I got elected MC and you don't get to question me" is not helpful.

I still think you're town, Sensei. But I don't think you should be MC anymore.

MC:Yosarian2

[Yosarian2]

pedit: Yosarian, ZZZX, who we know is town, confirmed that his track of her on N2 was not successful, and no one has claimed they blocked him. There is no reason why DGB couldn't have a role which simply reflexively did what GWS' role did to anyone that targeted her, OR just be unaffected by things while punishing people for targeting her. I don't understand your skepticism with regards to my supposition. It certainly makes more sense than giving scum two slots with targeted roleblocking hatred, to me at least.

I had forgotten about ZZZX's claim. But TCC, this is the kind of detail you should not be reminding us of until *after* DGB claims. Let her claim, and then we can see if we know anything that conflicts with that claim.

[Yosarian2]

Does anyone object to us killing Shiro tonight to do what ZZZX would have?

By the way, I almost missed this post the first time.

You are NOT to kill ANYONE unless the town SPECIFICALLY directs you to do it. Period.

Stop trying to get out of that restriction. We know you're there, and we know we can tell you to kill someone if we have to. Until we do, keep your stumper holstered.

[Yosarian2]

Yea if anyone is getting MCed it should probably not be Yos. Just saying.

It clearly should have been me yesterday, then we wouldn't be in this mess today.

[Yosarian2]

- which being the MC is my fucking choice and not yours -

Sensei, it was bad play to switch everyone and not even tell us before. It was anti-town. I mean I might have chosen a different ability if I had known that. And it's bad play to give adventuring slots to people you discribe as "weaker town reads". All of these things are clearly mistakes, at best.

Drixx isn't being irrational calling you out about that. And you saying "Oh I get to do whatever I fucking want because I got elected

MC

abr and you don't get to question me" is not helpful.

I still think you're town, Sensei. But I don't think you should be MC anymore.

MC:Yosarian2

yoyo this is me trying to understand your thought processes, so cld you help me out here?

why is it okay for abr to play the way in which he has but it is antitown for sensei to do the same?

just curious.

How has Sensei and ABR played "the same"? I don't at all get your analogy here.

[Yosarian2]

Like all you dudes wanna go on adventures but there's only 4 slots like damn.

Nothing to do with "wanting to go on adventures". If you are town, your job is to use your role and whatever game mechanics you have access to in order to help the town win. That's what "play to win" means. You don't just blow that off because you think it'll be fun to adventure with someone else.

Anyway, whatever, no point arguing about this now. Although I still don't get why you didn't even mention that you were thinking about this in the adventure chat.

[Yosarian2]

[
Why do you keep defending Sky? Other than that weak role related reason you had, do you have anything else?

I was about to lynch sky yesterday, and then when the mod locked the thread, my only thought was "shit shit she's going to flip town I shouldn't have let ABR talk me into this shit shit" and then the mod unlocked the thread and she wasn't dead after all.

I donno. She could be scum, I guess, but I don't really feel like she is.

What do you think right now, Flum?

Actually, I lied. If ABR is going to be lame, it should go to Drixx, honestly. He's basically the only slot who I am absolutely positively certain is town.

-Cerb

pedit: mollie, nobody is suggesting that we lynch you. It would be idiotic to lynch you before your IC claim can be tested. Drixx is just thinking out loud since he no longer has a place to store his thoughts at that will ensure he is heard even in the event he dies.

peditx2: Hmm. I hope you're right Sensei.

I would probably vote Zulfy as MC before Drixx at this point.

Do you think we should tell TCC to stump Flum? Since he is the only one who can bypass Lowkey's bodyguard.

Actually Varsoon said a stump would redirect too. I forget where.[/quote]

[Yosarian2]

Crap, quote screw up. Ignore everything in that last post after "What do you think right now, Flum?", the rest was actually part of his quote that i forgot to delete.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, we need a DGB claim before we can make any decisions about either her or Sky.

mod: could you prod DGB please?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian check if you're hated permanently or just today and confirm in-thread

Mine is permanent.

What's this about? Cuz after Yosarian was burning too

Go back and read the flipped role of Gale, the scum we lynched day 2. That probably explains my permhatred.

[Yosarian2]

I see.
I'm wondering if there's an alternate explanation though. You can't really confirm Gale targeted you, Yosarian.

Maybe you targeted ABR.

As I said yesterday, my ability doesn't target at all. My rings have global effects, not targeted one.

Also; ABR? What are you talking about there? No way ABR would have a role like that and not claim it long before that.

[Yosarian2]

Let's stop pussyfooting

Intent to babel crumble skybird

If you EVER use your voting ability again, EVER, to go against the will of the town, we will end you. Like, right away.

TCC IF ZULFY ENDS THE DAY WITH HIS ABILITY, FOR ANY REASON, STUMP HIM TONIGHT

[Yosarian2]

Faux indignation doesn't impress me much

If 6 people are for it, I will babel crumble Skybird

unvote

vote:Zulfy

I will lynch you RIGHT NOW if you don't stop this shit.

[Yosarian2]

Explain yourself Yosarian, I'm keeping my end of the agreement and you seem unnecessarily rattled by it.

If you want to lynch someone, you convince a majority of the town to vote for them. You do not use yor vote manipulation stuff to cut the day short.

That was what you agreed to yesterday. You threatening to break that and turbo lynch someone less then 24 hours into the day is a total violation of everything you promised.

Man, I argued yesterday to let you live, both here and in the party chat, and now you're making me regret this.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos, in what circumstance would you be okay with a skybird lynch?

Doesn't have anything to do with who you're threatening to turbo lynch, zulfy. The key is that we can not afford to let you just lynch prople on your own every day. If you start doing that, either town has to lynch you and waste another whole day stopping you, or town probably loses to your random whims.

You DO NOT USE your voting powers. Period. At least not unless scum are trying something with the vote and it's the only way to avoid a scum controlled lynch. You CERTANLY don't threaten to do it 24 hours into the day.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, we are not ending the day until we get a full claim from DGB, both on her own role and on what sky's claim did to her. Depending on how that goes, then we can consider lynching either DGB or Sky.

vote:DGB

But i swear zulfy, if you screw up this game for the town more then you already have, we will end you. We will have no choice; you're likely town but if you're going to be acting like this you're a bigger threat to the town's win condition then the entire scum group.

[Yosarian2]

Yos you're just looking worse and worse.

I'm looking worse? What the HELL?

I TOLD YOU YESTERDAY TO NOT USE YOUR DAMN VOTING POWERS. YOU IGNORED ME AND SCREWED OVER THE WHOLE TOWN. WE LET YOU LIVE BECAUSE YOU SWORE YOU WOULDNT DO IT AGAIN AND NOW YOU'RE THREATENING TO DO IT AGAIN FOR NO REASON.

HOW THE HELL ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SINGLEGANDEDLY LOSE THE GAME FOR THE TOWN IF YOU DON'T KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian youve seen the extent of my powers, I couldnt lynch sky on my lonesome even if I wanted to.

All Im doin is askin town if they wanna see me use my powers on someone I see as an inevitable lynch.

If you use your powers on someone we were going to lynch anyway, then all you're doing is costing us information. Who would have voted for thm,, how, when, why, who would have defended them, how they would have acted at lynch -1, ect. You are only hurting the town if you use them like that, so don't. At all. Don't even think about it.

I can think of scereios where you using your powers could help, but they're rare, and certanly are not going to happen today.

You didnt answer the question, when will you be okay with a skylynch?

This is the order of operations here.

First, DGB claims.

If she can't properly explain her role, then we lynch her.

If we're not going to lynch her, or even if we are, we also need to know if DGB can confirm Sky's claim.

If we are not going to lynch DGB and DGB can't confirm sky's claim, then we can think about lynching Sky. Although probably DGB is more likely scum here then Sky, but we'll see how it goes.

We are NOT in a RUSH. We just started the day. We have time to figure this stuff out and actually lynch scum today, and we're going to do it with a proper bandwagon where everyone has to commit to a position, not with vote shenanigans. If you do that, it just gives the scumbuddy an easy way to hide.

[Yosarian2]

DGB, we need your rolename and a full discription of your role.

[Yosarian2]

Quickly.

[Yosarian2]

Come on, DGB, paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds.

[Yosarian2]

We are NOT in a RUSH. We just started the day. We have time to figure this stuff out and actually lynch scum today, and we're going to do it with a proper bandwagon where everyone has to commit to a position, not with vote shenanigans. If you do that, it just gives the scumbuddy an easy way to hide.

No one is rushing. Dont assume


If we play our cards right we could lynch two scum today.

Hypothetical vote analyses are not enough to convince me to take a passive role in this game.

I don't want you to take a passive role, i want you to be active and scumhunting, but with your voice and your (one) vote, not your powers.

You know how I knew you were town yesterday? I recognized that you have a "sucker's role". That's a role specifically designed by the mod to have a lot of powers that look oh so tempting, but that if used, will almost inevitably backfire and harm your own win condition. I love designing roles like that as a mod, it's a great skill test.

Between your gladiate ability, your voting stuff, and your day role bocks that won't generally stop a factional kill, every one if your abilities is a sucker's role; tempting, theoretically strong, but much more likely to harm the town win con then help it if used on a whim.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I'm fine lynching DGB. Her claim doesn't fit the facts we know, so either she's scum, or it's just an absurd coincidence that everyone who targeted her ended up dead. And it sounds like she has no info on sky.

Sky: this is your last chance. If you haven't proven your claim by tommorow, we're going to have to lynch you. Again if you can stop a scum kill tonight as well, even better.

[Yosarian2]

"Ended up dead" should read "ended up hated".

[Yosarian2]

I, umm, just had a thought with regards to the itlepip/skybird thing.

I know people were thinking it didn't make sense for there to be two town slots that want to kill one another, but...what if we're all looking at it wrong? What if the thought wasn't that the two slots would want to kill one another, but that that interaction would serve as insurance for town, in the event of a mislynch? A way for town to retain those powers, even if they lynched that slot?

-Cerb

pedit: KC, Skybird is L-3+hated according to her, so she's actually L-2.

Well, yeah. Thats what I've been saying fro day 1. Mechanically speaking, it makes the most sense if pip and sky are both town.

That's why we have to confirm sky's claim tonight, see if she really does have basically the same role as pip.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, if people really want to double lynch, whatever. I don't really think sky is going to flip scum and would rather wait one more day and test her claim, but there aren't that many plausible suspects left, and if people want to sort them faster that's reasonable.

[Yosarian2]

pedit: yosarian, well...the thing is, even if she does have a single target roleblock that causes temporary hate...that doesn't mean she's town. :-/ I'm not even sure how strong an argument it is, in and of itself, that she's town.

If she has a roleblock and temp hate *and has chosen to never use it, she's town. No scum would sit on a rolebock+ forever and not use it, and i could see a townie being worried about using that in this kind of game.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, if people really want to double lynch, whatever. I don't really think sky is going to flip scum and would rather wait one more day and test her claim, but there aren't that many plausible suspects left, and if people want to sort them faster that's reasonable.

How many days have to go by where she has miraculously not had any concrete results before you call bullshit?

She tried once. And either she targeted an astetic, or DGB is lying scum, or both. DGB was a very reasonable target last night, for several reasons, so I don't blame her for that.

I already told her she has only one more try to prove herself. If she hasn't confirmed herself by tomorrow, we're probably going to have to lynch her. It's not that likely the scum has another roleblocker left that can screw with her.

[Yosarian2]

Before we end the day, I'd better share my reads just in case I get nightkilled, because I'm pretty sure I know who the last scums are.

DGB is going to flip scum. At the start of the day, I thought there was a chance that she might have some super-complex role that she just hadn't fully understood, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

Sky is going to flip town. Sorry, she just is.

The last scum is between (Flum) and (Lowkey). There is no way they are both telling the truth.

There is no way a mod designes a setup, takes a town role as awesome as "you get powers when you hammer people" and then makes that power something as weak as "one-shot nk protection" (at least, weak compared to all the other powers we've seen) and then takes ANOTHER town role and gives THAT role no job other then bodyguarding the guy who's only ability is to not get nightkilled. It makes zero sense.

That's why I suddenly was opposed to Flum wanting the hammer yesterday; I was fine with Flum all game, defended him day 1 a good deal in fact, but as soon as he claimed that all get got from his role was 1 shot nightkill protection, alarm bells went off.

Either Flum is lying about what his role does, or Lowkey is lying about what is role is, or one of them is partly telling the truth but is scum anyway. They almost certanly aren't scum together though.

Anyway, that's the scum group. DGB + (flum or Lowkey).

The only other person I'm not 100% sure about is DP. I don't totally believe that the Mod is going to come in an announce with the Voice of God that *reverb*DRUNKEN PIRATES ARE TOONWWWNNNNN*reverb* when we get to 10 people left. Seems to good to be true. But I guess we'll wait and see what happens; something will probably happen, at least.

[Yosarian2]

Like, siphon souls = bulletproof.
Tad lame.

Yeah, it does sound off, doesn't it?

I mean, maybe it's true, maybe the mod had to do weaken that role up for for balance reasons or something, it's *possible*, but if it is then Lowkey is lying. No way you put a bodyguard role on another role who's only ability is to not get nightkilled, that makes less then zero sense.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo I told you our role was overpowered d1 which is why i didn't believe abr oh lookee he was lying. what you are doing is discrediting anything I try to do and this crap is what has been happening all game it is why I feel demotivated. any attempt do anything and then it is "omg titus's vca" and "dp might be scum" and ignoring every single fucking thing I say. you can't fuss at me fr not townreading you and then turn around and misread us when I am claiming IC and it will be established well before lylo.

like no. you shld know me better than this.

anyways no1 cares for my input so whatevs.

I'm not "discrediting" you, Mollie.

I did already agree that we're not going to go after you until you have a chance to prove yourself "confirmed" at 10 people left like you promised, so if it goes the way you said it was going to go, you have nothing to worry about.

[Yosarian2]

The bulletproof was only the soul for the Gale soul. There's a unique soul for each player.

I thought you said when claimed that you said you get an extra one-shot bulletproof for each soul you get?

[Yosarian2]

If there's scum within flum/lowkey it's almost 85% lowkey just sayin.

Yeah, that's plausible. Although now it kind of sounds like the whole reason I thought there was 1 scum within flum/lowkey was based on a misunderstanding of Flum's role, so.

[Yosarian2]

He doesn't want the day to end yet. Zulfy, you shouldn't help the day end yet.

You should pick someone who isn't Zulfy or Sky, and roleblock them though. ideally within Flum/Lowkey/Yosarian, imo.

-Cerb

Lol, DGB or Sky, not Zulfy or Sky.

That is, assuming we're lynching them both.

-Cerb

We're either lynching sky or giving her one more chance to prove her claim so either way we're not roleblocking her.

[Yosarian2]

Why do you see this as a scum claim? Dude is willing to give DGB a break on how she is conducting herself, but wants me to hang regardless of me conducting myself pretty much like DGB. Hell, I've been trying to leave town as many clues as possible to think about after I flip. You guys need to look who has been yelling for my head.

I think it is a scumclaim cos when scum are going down they:

1. threaten town with their inevitable lynch
2. single out 1 of the most obvs town players and scream "lynch this instantly" in the face of their inevitable lynch.

mebbe I am jaded but it is pretty textbook of scum. like I have seen this so many times.

nor are you doing the braindump that yoyo thinks we shld be lynching dgb for.

I think we should be lynching DGB because we have a ton of evidence that something bad happens when people target her, and that doesn't match her claim. And it seems scummy and anti-town of her to not claim that. Also, she's acting like scum in general; town-DGB wouldn't just flit into the game, half-claim, act confused, and then wander back out. That didn't make any sense at all.

Frankly, I should have suspected DGB a while ago, when she didn't suddenly storm into the thread in iron boots halfway through day 3, do some bizzare black magic, and immediately catch 3 scum, all of whom spontaneously implode under her glare. Or else do a crazy gambit, or go berserk on someone totally out of the blue. Something spectacular and earthshattering and brutally effective or self destructive or both.

Like, that really should have happened by now if DGB was town. I was willing to give her some leeway when this game was moving at like 20 pages a minute, but it's slowed way down, and still nothing. She's probably scum.

[Yosarian2]

Come on people.

Is it just me, or is everyone else now hearing all of Flum's posts in Bester's voice? Lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Yvk2xfPbU

[Yosarian2]

If we are lynching one player, then I prefer Skybird.

No, no way we let DGB live after she just totally failed to claim like that. She's scum, and we can't let her live; she's probably got some dangerous role besides the spreading hatred thing.

[Yosarian2]

Remember Sky, this is your last chance to prove yourself, and maybe even stop a scum kill. Good luck.

[Yosarian2]

You know reigning in extreme personal attacks is one thing, but i don't think it's possible to play mafia without occasionally needing to call people idiots. Just saying. I mean, "how to deal with the village idiot" is actually a key part of mafia strategy.

On an unrelated note, Zulfy, don't do things just because you think there's been a hammer, especally not with the vote being as weird as it has been this game. Didn't you learn that lesson yesterday?

[Yosarian2]

TCC you need to stump Flum if you want to be on my ticket tomorrow, I promise you that.

You can't let TCC adventure, ABR. I mean now thst we know there probably aren't any town vigs I sort of trust TCC to probably not backstab us for the next few days, and am no longer looking for his lynch, but we still really don't need him to get any extra powers.

No offense TCC but you're still not actually town, and there is still a risk from my POV that your win condition might be worse for us then you claimed.

[Yosarian2]

I am not taking him...I mean on my safe from lynch ticket.

Ok. Just making sure.

[Yosarian2]

I wouldn't mind Yoyo passing me the ring and then being Rosario impaled, but yes all other day powers should be on hold. Votes should proceed as normal with minimal interference from me. Do not ask my opinion on things yet. Ideally, the lynch target should be decided by the group.

~Titus

None of my abilities are killing abilities, so I should be ok with a Rosario impaled. Although seriously, it's kind of absurd that you still suspect me since it looks like I was right about DGB and Sky, and considering how hard I fought yesterday to make sure DGB got lynched and then not Sky; my scumdar has been incredibly good this game.

If you really want to borrow the "USELESS ORNAMENTAL RING" for a minute I can do that (I guess you want to test that crazy theory Mollie mentioned yesterday?), but I will say that it does have a one-shot ability that I can use even during the day if things start to very seriously and very suddenly go sideways, so get it back to me quickly. Also, if you're trying anything tricksy here, you should probably know that while everything I said in thread was 100% true, I did not claim my *entire* role in thread (I told more details to the people adventruing with me a few days ago) so I still won't be vanillia even without this ring.

At some point when we're both online, I'll give you the ring, and then you can give it right back ASAP.

[Yosarian2]

hey yoyo that thing happened that we said wld happen

thoughts ~

It did, yes. That's a relief; I was kind of expecting something ambiguous and unclear and a lot of annoying debating about exactally what it meant.

[Yosarian2]

Why is yos town? Seriously. I can point to what's been done by both flum and shiro that makes them far more unlikely to be scum than yos, imo at least.

-Cerb

Well, let's see. Yesterday, YET AGAIN, I pushed through a lynch on a scum (DGB) while most of the rest of the town people in the game were trying to lynch a townie (Sky). Just like I pushed through a lynch on Gale when ABR was almost lynched.

Like, if I was scum, it would have to mean that I would have planned to bus literally my entire scum group every single chance I got starting on day 1.

[Yosarian2]

OH FUCK YOS HAS A RING THAT DISABLES ALL PASSIVES RIGHT??? CONFIRM???? WE CAN DOUBLE LYNCH FLUM AND SHIRO AND GG

Let me double check, but I think it just stops active non-killing abilities.

[Yosarian2]

No, sorry Albert. The hero ring (the "useless ornimental ring"). Every player in the game (or every player in the advenruing party) becomes immune to the next targeted non-killing action.

I also have the "merchent ring", which says all non-killing night actions fail for a night, the "thief ring", which lets me steal items, and the "fighter ring", which makes lets all votes count as double for the rest of the day.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I agree. Last scum is almost certanly either Flum or Shiro.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think CC is groupscum. Could be lying about their wincon easily, though.

Yeah, if we lynch another mafia and that doesn't end the game, CC is likely lying about his win condition. But there probably does have to be one more groupscum left, so let's worry about that first.

[Yosarian2]

TCC: yes, stump Flum.

[Yosarian2]

And yeah, I'm thinking ABR is right. I'm normally not a fan of quicklynching, but there are too many crazy day abilities this game, too much that could go wrong if we drag this out.

[Yosarian2]

vote:shiro

double slash:shiro

[Yosarian2]

That should be a hammer, but wuick everyone vote Shiro RIGHT NOW just in case, I don't trust these crazy vote mechanics and bad things could still happen

[Yosarian2]

Yos how many rings you got now?

Just got ring number six. It's pretty cool too. It lets me heal away all injuries that made people require less votes to lynch. Since both scum hatred roles are dead i might as well use it today, if there's no objections.

[Yosarian2]

Let's talk.

Okay. Why did you lynch Shiro?

~ Titus

There were not that many possible suspects left. Shiro was one of the few.

I wanted to end the day quickly yesterday before FIRE has a chance to act, since that seems to be a day action. If we were going to lynch Shiro, better to do it fast.

[Yosarian2]

You...just fucked everything. With Drixx alive we could guarantee impales on ABR and yosarian, and a lynch on KC, removing all fucking suspects.

-Cerb

I protected Drixx but Yosarian used a ring that cancelled all non-killing actions, which includes my protect, so that Flum could not use his 1-shot commute card. That's why he died.

Yeah. We realized last night that if Flum could commute and avoid your kill, we had no other way to kill Flum without killing Lowkey, who is now mostly confirmed town. Using my ring was the only option we could come up with, even though it was risky.

[Yosarian2]

You're a fucking idiot.

Shiro waa obviously fown, and I told you all why.

Also, you do realize you could have guaranteed a town win a d fucking lynched the entire game except for DP and rhe MC yesterday, rifht? You guys completely fucked it up.

Sensei, an impale does need to happen on yosarian, but, umm, apparently it can't? I don't even know what you guys got from last night. Are you all hidden now??
-Cerb

What? Wait, doesn't Sensei have an impale? He can still use it.

Wait, hold on, let me check something.

[Yosarian2]

Dp, what are you doing, exactally?

Tcc, we can work around this. All I have to do to prove I'm not using the "hide" rune is vote or use an ability. Everyone who adventured last night can confirm that. Once you vote or use an ability, if you were using the hide rune, it's cancled.

So I can prove I'm not hiding, multiple times if neccesarry, and then Sensei can impale me to confirm me town. Sound good?

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, no, if Flum was scum and he was both bodyguarded and bulletproof, like he claimed, he alone could have cost us the game, impales or not. We had to get rid of Flum, and if he was scum, he would have killed you so last night was our only chance to do it.

So, no. We didn't "screw the game". If you want to get mad at someone, blame sensei for taking our suspects adventuring, that was what really screwed us over.

[Yosarian2]

ABR is probably scum after his atrocious play the last couple days. Or Yos for quickhammer.

I'm about to be confirmed town. And the quickhammer was clearly the right move in that situation.

Just remember Sensei, wait until right I've proven I'm not hiding then do the impale. I don't want there to be any room for doubt.

Anyway, let me use my ring and clear all the hatred now, to be safe.

[Yosarian2]

Yos's actions and posting is as atrocious and ABR's today.

I don't know what the hell more you people want of me, considering how awesome my scumdar has been all game and how many scum I have personally caught.

All my moves have been correct strategically speaking, and I'm tired of you and TCC trolling and insulting me just because I was wrong about your alignment. I thought you were the last scum, I thought killing you would end the game, and if you lived it was likely to be a huge problem. TCC apparently agreed since he killed you, so him.flipping out on me today is total bullshit.

Everyone in the adventure thought I should use the merchant ring once Klingon revealed to us that you were unkillable last night. It was the only way to do it. It sucked, I knew it would be risky, but we didn't really have a choice, not if we wanted to keep Lowkey alive.

[Yosarian2]

I thought you can't be voted for ABR.

He just voted. He turned his own hide rune off.

[Yosarian2]

Wait, so if Yos votes he's not immune either?

I already said that like 4 times.

[Yosarian2]

Wait, so if Yos votes he's not immune either?

ABR already voted cuke ppl before himself. If voting pierced his immunity, our votes would already count.

Impaling ABR the way to go.

~Titus

He voted Cuke, THEN he used the hide rune, titus. That's how it works.

[Yosarian2]

Would everyone stop trying to rush the day? Jesus.

Anyway, we can still win this. I sparked up the first two fist abilities ladt night, so I can block one person during the day today. So whichever suspect we're not lynching, I can make sure they can't kill. Or we can do a no-lynch. Either way.

[Yosarian2]

I don't understand what the point of sprinting through the lynch on shiro accomplished.

I already explained this, Sensei. I ended the day before FIRE could use their ability. The combination of FIRE and hatred was the biggest threat to the town; luckily I managed to heal all the hatred today, but I didn't know I would be able to do that yesterday.

[Yosarian2]

Also where the hell has yos been getting all these rings from?

Sensei. I get a ring every night. I TOLD you all that, the night I adventured with you guys. Remember? I didn't clam that fact in thread until yesterday, but YOU already knew that.

[Yosarian2]

Like how did you not pick up a little bit about something going on when I said flum would have asked for himself to be stumped?
Why would you think disrupting all protection last night would be a good idea?

Why did you think that agreeing that Flum should be vigged and then not telling us he was NK-immune was a good idea, Sensei?

if I hadn't done that last night, then today we would be lynching Flum, which would have killed Lowkey, and then we would have had to lynch Flum again tommorow. It would have cost us 2 full days and a confirmed town just to accomplish the same thing. Disrupting all roles was obviously risky, but it was the better alternative then that.

[Yosarian2]

Can you run down how that coversation when, yosarian? Who brought up the prospect of you using the merchant ring first and how did klingon go about manipulating you so hard?

Klingon told us that everyone got a one-shot item on the adventure yesterday that made everyone able to commute once.

I pointed that that would screw up our plan to kill Flum, and asked if there was any way we could still get rid of Flum without killing Lowkey.

ABR asked about both the merchent ring, and the theif ring, if either one of them could be used to make the kill go through.

The thief ring probably wouldn't have worked; I'm not sure if I can steal items like that, and in any case it had probably already been used anyway. I asked the mod about the merchent ring, and while the answer was vague, it sounded like it would work.

I did say in the adventure thread that it was a risky move, since it would also stop doc protections and stuff. That's why I never used the merchent ring. (The Hero Ring has the same risk). But on any given night, the odds a doc protection stop a kill are actually pretty small; it seemed like a much better risk then having to lynch Flum twice and killing Lowkey in the process.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo plz don't ignore me

You're still babbling about that stupid "yos is a tratior" conspiracy theory Titus came up a few days ago, even though I pretty clearly proved yesterday that Titus's conspiracy theory about my role was wrong, and even though my role is pretty clearly the only counter in the game to the two "hatred" roles the scums had. And ABR just disabled his own protection so you could lynch him, and you're still trying to impale him instead, which makes no sense to me at all.

If you still want me to loan you that ring for a minute to disprove that theory, I can do that, but you guys are just all over the place today.

[Yosarian2]

Drixx kill points to scum knowing you used the merchant ring too btw. (assuming you're town)

Yeah, maybe.

[Yosarian2]

No there's no maybe about it.
I literally said protection is on drixx and me.
You think scum risks a kill there when they don't need to?

Ok.

So how should we do this?

My suggestion is, I do prove that I'm not using a hide rune (I'm planning to save it to protect against nightkills anyway, I wouldn't want to use it during the day unless things went seriously sideways). I already proved I wasn't using it last night by using the ring, but I can vote to prove it again right before you impale me if you want. Then you impale me to confirm I'm town. Then I punch someone to roleblock them for tonight (maybe Albert? Risky if he really is the doc, but if there is a nightkill while he's roleblocked he's confirmed town), then we lynch Klingon.

Alternately, we could make Klingon prove she's not using the hide rune and then impale her.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo I want you to explain the shiro lynch to me

that is what you seem to be ignoring

There weren't that many possible suspects left. The only reason we were assuming Shiro was town all game was her claim, but her claim seemed a little strange, and got stranger the more we looked at it. Also, she did some very suspicious things, like try to quicklynch ABR over Gale even after Gale was super obvscum.

I thought there was a decent chance Shiro was going to flip scum. I mean, I had been somewhat town-reading her for most of the game, but by that point I really only had town-ish reads left.

And like I said, if we were going to lynch Shiro, the best move was to lynch her fast, before FIRE (who I assume is the last scum) had a chance to place another extra permanent vote on someone. And it worked, there was no new FIRE vote yesterday, so at least that's one thing that went right.

[Yosarian2]

We aren't impaling you.
You're too okay with it.

I'm ok with it because I'm town, Sensei. And I want to be confirmed town so DP stops being so annoying.

But, fine, we can impale Klingon instead, we just have to make sure she's not using the hide rune first. Also, there are a few ways she could be tricksy about it, so we have to be careful.

First, Klingon needs to vote someone and then unvote. The risk is, though, she might do that and *then* activate the hide rune, so we might want to make her do it multiple times, and maybe not tell her which time you're going to impale her.

[Yosarian2]

Hide rune prevents us from voting people right?

Once you activate the hide rune, you become an inelegebele target for any abilities that target a single player and for votes until the end of the day or the end of the night, unless you submit an action (including a vote). Once you do that, the hide rune is deactivated.

Actually, hold on, I just got an idea. Let me ask the mod something.

[Yosarian2]

did you honestly think i wld buy this

Uh. It's factually right. Shiro was playing like Gale's scum buddy right at the point of lynch there.

yeah what is missing is any type of thought progression in your read on her at all in the thread. <----

hey pple plz pay attention to this

Seriously? You do remember that I've been trying to figure out which one of the people who tried to quicklynch ABR over Gale was scum since like day 3, right? I suspected you, and I suspected Klingon, but Shiro was always the third major option there. I did think she looked more town then either you or Klingon at the time, but she was on the list. And then the next day, i explained to you in great detail exactlaly why ABR's case on R&L was perfectly reasonable and sound.

"No thought progression"? Are you even reading any of my posts this game, Mollie?

And like I said, if we were going to lynch Shiro, the best move was to lynch her fast, before FIRE (who I assume is the last scum) had a chance to place another extra permanent vote on someone. And it worked, there was no new FIRE vote yesterday, so at least that's one thing that went right.

well fire is still around so I am not sure if that was a big accomplishment.

There wasn't an extra fire vote yesterday, which bought the town a whole day before we started getting rapid-fire autolynches leading to a rapid town loss from the fire and hatred. That's a huge deal.

Luckily I've delayed that risk a lot more now by healing us all of the hatred, but I didn't know that would become an option.

[Yosarian2]

Hide rune prevents us from voting people right?

Once you activate the hide rune, you become an inelegebele target for any abilities that target a single player and for votes until the end of the day or the end of the night, unless you submit an action (including a vote). Once you do that, the hide rune is deactivated.

Actually, hold on, I just got an idea. Let me ask the mod something.

Can't we easily confirm she has used it by voting then?

That's a good idea.

We make her use it, vote her to prove that she used it, and then make her vote to cancel it? And then impale her? That would work.

[Yosarian2]

The only possible problem with the "Klingon=scum" theory is that, assuming the scum is the one making the FIRE votes, it would be a little weird if Klingon has control of both the FIRE vote and the BIT vote.

Still, there aren't many suspects left, so we can test her to make sure.

[Yosarian2]

The only possible problem with the "Klingon=scum" theory is that, assuming the scum is the one making the FIRE votes, it would be a little weird if Klingon has control of both the FIRE vote and the BIT vote.

Still, there aren't many suspects left, so we can test her to make sure.

Guessing the setup is how you lose games.

Hey, guessing the setup is also how I figured out Sky and Pip were both town back on day 1 and then stopped you guys from lynching either of them for the whole rest of the game. Don't knock it.

[Yosarian2]

Didn't we also figure out the the fire spreads by using a non killing action on someone with fire already anyway?

It seems like it, but that's not the only way it spreads. Albert got light on fire day 1, and then I got lit on fire day 2 even though I never targeted him with anything. There's someone setting fires as well.

[Yosarian2]

Would the thing you used to block all night kills that night be considered targeting ABR?

No. All my rings are global abilities, I can make them either affect everyone or affect everyone in the adventuring party. They don't target anyone.

Also, I didn't get a ring until the end of the first night, and I didn't use it until night 2. I was on fire before that happened.

[Yosarian2]

Seriously? You do remember that I've been trying to figure out which one of the people who tried to quicklynch ABR over Gale was scum since like day 3, right? I suspected you, and I suspected Klingon,

but Shiro was always the third major option there.

I did think she looked more town then either you or Klingon at the time, but she was on the list. And then the next day, i explained to you in great detail exactlaly why ABR's case on R&L was perfectly reasonable and sound.

"No thought progression"? Are you even reading any of my posts this game, Mollie?

yeah I just iso-ed you and I can't find it. can you help me out here?

and this:

And then the next day, i explained to you in great detail exactlaly why ABR's case on R&L was perfectly reasonable and sound.

I am old and feeble minded so you will definitely have to point to this. cos what i saw was a very shitty made-up case that only exists in the world of unicorns and dragons and flying spaghetti monsters.

Seriously? I spent like 5 posts talking to you about this.

<snip>

that...is not a case.

see abr LIED several times made horrible pushes, rolefished like a mofo w/o coming clean about his own role while simultaneously demanding a claim from every1 in the game. the push on rylai is HORRIBLE and looks desperate and you keep stating that abr's childish temper tantrums are somehow town is something that nobody else in this game can possibly understand.

Sure. Honestly, though, none of that matters much. What matters is that we came within a hair of a speedlynch being pushed through on a townie right when a scum was about to be lynched. It seems very, very likely that scum were pushing the ABR wagon yesterday. Not all scum, but some, I'd bet.

If you're town, then the odds of other people pushing that wagon being scum go up even more. And the timing of R&L's vote was especally bad.

Doesn't prove R&L is scum, but it's a perfectly reasonably reason to suspect them. And the way she's reacting to pressure isn't great either.

Overall we have way too much drama in this thread. R&L, people have the right to suspect you; this is a mafia game, that's the whole point. Don't take it personally.

3 - I hated the way she voted me last day over gale!

3 - Fuck you

is there anymore questions?!

~Rylai

Uh. You voted someone who was obvtown, very nearly quicklynchinh him, in what could easily be read as an attempt to save obvscum.

Do you really not understand why a reasonable person would look at that and be suspicious you are scum with Gale?.

This is not helping you. At least admit that you screwed up, understand that it looks scummy, and move on. Lashing out irrationally like this just makes you look bad.

@ yoyo - are you going to answer my question? 5th time I am asking you!

What is the question, exactally?

you have been clearing town left and right and shld have a pretty good poe list right about now.

who is scum?

I answered that question like 10 pages ago. At the time, I was thinking CC and Klingon were likely.

Now, we know CC is anti-town but may or may not be team scum, so we lynch him and see what kind of scum he flips as and then recalibarate.

I still think Klingon is likely scum; SOMEONE on that Albert wagon yesterday has to be. Beyond that, I donno.

hindu he has. he isn't lynching rylai cos he thinks she is scum if he is town but because he doesn't like her.

That's really not fair. ABR was townreading and defending and working with R&L for most of the game. When he did start to suspect them he had decent reasons for it.

By the way I am going to laugh so hard if you eventually flip flying ninja shark

hindu he has. he isn't lynching rylai cos he thinks she is scum if he is town but because he doesn't like her.

That's really not fair. ABR was townreading and defending and working with R&L for most of the game. When he did start to suspect them he had decent reasons for it.

By the way I am going to laugh so hard if you eventually flip flying ninja shark

I WANT TO BE A FLYING ROLEBLOCKING HATED NINJA SHARK DAMMIT

what were those reasons yoyo? cos we aren't privy to what is going on ad I keep asking for some1 to explain it to me and no1 will.

it feels like a deliberate move to drive town into pathy cos I am pretty sure we are the only 1s who give a damn right now who is not in your party thread.

He explained in thread. The end of day counterwagon on him they pushed that almost saved a scum from being lynched, meta that he's seen them act like this as scum before, and skepticism about the mechanics of their claimed role. Overall reasonable points for the most part.

Of course, he spead them out and mixed in a ton of short posts demanding they die and whatnot, but I tune those out. He always does that. Hell he did it to me a few pages ago and he's the guy who invited me to join this game in the first place.

[Yosarian2]

Like, you just forgot all of that? That wasn't even all of it either.

[Yosarian2]

We cannot dual lynch because of the vote shield.

Please trust me.

~Titus

Which is why we're waiting for klingon to show up and remove it.
If she doesn't she's as good as confirmed scum.
Keep up.

No. If Klingon removes her shield, ABR and Yos can quick lynch her.

I am not going to "quicklynch" anyone. There was a very specific tacticak reason I did that yesterday, and it does not apply. I've been the one saying we need to take this day slow and figure things out.

[Yosarian2]

Also Klingon hasn't posted today so she likely hasn't used the hide rune yet today. If anyone wanted to quicklynch her, they'd have already done it

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian: the hide rune functions at night? If you activate it?

Yes, I can use it to avoid nightkills, and that's how i would expect townies to use it.

What "plan" do you mean?

[Yosarian2]

So at night it's like a commute and during the day it eats votes, essentially?

Yeah, but if you do an action of any time it's canceled.

[Yosarian2]

And it's one shot per game yes?

Yeah, one shot.

[Yosarian2]

So the last teamscum has to be either Klingon or ABR. The only other possibility is Lowkey is scum who is bulletproof and thus can survive an impale. I don't think so but whatever.

So: impale Klingon, if that doesnt end the game lynch Albert. Just for the hell of it, since his claimed role is now useless, I'll punch Lowkey to roleblck him. And if we lynch the last scum and the game doesn't end, then TCC is probably a SK.

Am I missing anything?

[Yosarian2]

Oh I know. TCC is not team scum. I thought I made that clear.

[Yosarian2]

If kling doesn't die to impale then we could no lynch. You use the hide rune to dodge CC's stump. If there's a scumkill you're town. If not we impale you. Rinse repeat.

Ok. That works. Should I roleblock ABR or Lowkey or someone?

[Yosarian2]

Yes. Impaling Klingon kills her.

Wait, what? Why?

If so, then fine, impale me or ABR and lynch Klingon instead. Or impale one of use, I roleblock Klingon, and no lynch. Whatever, we can do this any whixh way

Can you and ABR stop trying to tag team this. We can wait on Klingon to defend herself.

Nobody is "tag teaming" anything. I have no idea what you're talking about. And I am the one who is saying we shouldn't rush the day. The only person who seemed to want to quicklynch was you.

[Yosarian2]

Because anyone we impale dies.

They are all shielded.

Breaking shield requires two targeted day actions.

The only two we have are our extra vote and your double votes.

Applying those would ad three votes simultaneously. Thus lynching our Impale target.

I am not shielded. You can easily prove I'm not shielded by just voting for me. You are making this way harder then it is.

[Yosarian2]

DP: Anyone who refuses to 1) Use their hide rune. 2) Prove they've used it by getting voted 1x, 3)vote to break it, and 4) get voted to prove that it's no longer active, is making a scum claim. Period.

-Cerb

Why the hell should I use it today? So you can kill me tonight?

It's easy to prove i haven't and won't use it.

[Yosarian2]

[
What part of this plan is flawed? Why WOULDN'T town agree to it? I know why scum wouldn't, but knowing that town has a double voter MC who won't die tonight...why wouldn't town do it?

Because I'm still worried you might actually be a SK or something and don't want to give up nightkill protection. It seems like a dangerous waste of resources that could save the town later in the game if things go badly. And the fact you're pushing it when there is no good reason for it makes me even more uncomfortable.

[Yosarian2]

I mean if people really want me to use up the hide rune i will, but i don't like it.

[Yosarian2]

Sounds good.

And if Klingon hides and refuses to let us impale her, then impale me, no-lynch, vig Klingon tonight

[Yosarian2]

So we need to square yos away first, that way his merchant ring can't mess with stuff again.
So maybe an impale on him wouldn't be the worst idea.

My merchant ring was a one-shot.

But yeah, you can impale me.

Tell you what. Impale me and vote me at the exact same time. Then the next vote count will prove I was not hiding when you impaled me.

[Yosarian2]

So we need to square yos away first, that way his merchant ring can't mess with stuff again.
So maybe an impale on him wouldn't be the worst idea.

My merchant ring was a one-shot.

But yeah, you can impale me.

Tell you what. Impale me and vote me at the exact same time. Then the next vote count will prove I was not hiding when you impaled me.

Eh. That kinda works. Except I don't think impaling you is great though, since you're so insistent upon it!

-Cerb

Hey, I could have taken two more sword abilites last nigh and been more effective, but I didn't because i was supposed to get impaled. If I'm not now I'll be annoyed, lol.

[Yosarian2]

I'm really just super curious why she felt the need to out flums shade robe. :/
If she's town I'm gonna be upset.
Because that was like my favorite adventure hands down.

By the way, everyone on the adventure last night got to spark up a second ability if they had gold. I don't think Klingon had gold, but me and ABR did. So if ABR is scum he might have some nasty stuff now.

[Yosarian2]

I'm having trouble reconciling klingon wrecking your plan with her revealing bit instead of just saving it to win the game now. I suppose it bought her town credit and all that shit.

Also, umm. Klingon can't vote. So. I kinda don't know how we're going to test her hide rune usage.

This is a flaw I had not thought about. :-/

We can vote her to test her still. If she claims she's not hiding and she is, then we know she's scum.

[Yosarian2]

You know. After we break the annoying immunity to voting, we have Cerb, Loki, and Pirates vote ABR, Klingon, Yos.
Then Sensei double votes them all. That simple.

No. We impale ABR. fucking trust me please.

Why aren't we impaling someone else and lynching abr?

[Yosarian2]

You know. After we break the annoying immunity to voting, we have Cerb, Loki, and Pirates vote ABR, Klingon, Yos.
Then Sensei double votes them all. That simple.

No. We impale ABR. fucking trust me please.

Why aren't we impaling someone else and lynching abr?

So you cannot fucking hammer and get two fucking nightkills.

Lol.

I have 1 level in sword and 2 in fist, which I plan to prove today by roleblocking someone. I did not take anything that might interfere with being impaled. So no, I can't "get nightkills for hammering".

[Yosarian2]

Oh you're still pushing ABR/Yos scumteam?
Ight then.

Yes. Mollie and I agree here on this team. We are confirmed town. Please.

~Titus

All game, I have been lynching scum, and you have done nothing but be paranoid and hostile to me for absolutely no reason while not helping at all. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that hasn't changed.

[Yosarian2]

[.

If I had that useless fucking ornamental ring to day trade, we wouldn't be in this mess. It's too late now for that.

I already said I'll loan you the damn ring if you still want it.

[Yosarian2]

[.

If I had that useless fucking ornamental ring to day trade, we wouldn't be in this mess. It's too late now for that.

I already said I'll loan you the damn ring if you still want it.

Yes. I want it right fucking now for day trading. It will solve a fucking lot.

Ok.

Just understand that if you give me grief about getting it back I will steal it back if you force me to. I need to keep the rings, Sensei knows why. But I will loan it to you.

[Yosarian2]

We block all the scum suspects from double voting, hammering today, using shields and any non factional killing abilities.

Then the ring goes back to Yoyo.

Triple lynch secured.

You have a mass roleblock?

Don't use it until I have roleblocked a suspect for tonight, perhaps Lowkey or whovever we're not lynching. Then we can lynch Albert, Klingon, and TCC or whatever.

Pretty sure Klingon is the one who's going to flip scum, but whatever

[Yosarian2]

From my point of view, mollie, it feels like you have a personal grudge against ABR and were just pissed at me all game because i wouldn't go along with it, which really made the game a lot more annoying and frustrating then it should have been. But whatever, water under the bridge.