Open 652- Making Friends and Enemies: Over

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: LoopDan...guy is 100% scum.

[PenguinPower]

Hmm...maybe not Loop. Looking like a Hark/Thor scumteam...what are the odds?

UNVOTE: Loopdan
VOTE: Hark

[PenguinPower]

@Harko: Where did Martha point her first vote out as RVS? Why are you misrepping her?

Because that's what scum!Hark does.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Martha
Not a fan of Martha so far

Hmm...maybe not Loop.

Looking like a Hark/Thor scumteam

...what are the odds?

UNVOTE: Loopdan
VOTE: Hark

I am interested in how you came to that conclusion so quickly. What makes you think that?

Gut. Pretty much all I have at this point. I'm probably wrong about Hark/Thor...don't think I'm wrong about Hark.

[PenguinPower]

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

[PenguinPower]

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

Hmm, is this a chainsaw?

You were interestingly absent from the Martha wagon. Are you texcat's partner?

I'm absent from the wagon because I disagree with it. Someone on it is scum. Right now, I think that could be you.

[PenguinPower]

I'm absent from the wagon because I disagree with it. Someone on it is scum. Right now, I think that could be you.

Interesting. You are absent from the wagon because you think scum is on the wagon, not because you think texcat is town?

What if scum is on the wagon & texcat is scum? It's not a bad thing to help scum bus another scum.

See...this is why my vote on you. You're being word-twisting karnos right now.

A. I'm not on the wagon because I disagree with it. FULL STOP.

B. Someone on it is scum. FULL STOP.

C. Right now, I think that could be you. FULL STOP

A has nothing to with my believing B, and B has nothing to do with my believing A.

Of course, now C is more like "Right now, I'm more confident it is you."

[PenguinPower]

Penguin's post is a serious problem because they are using dislike of a push to excuse a lack of activity, when if you think a push is bad it's the best time for you to be scumhunting with less bias.

Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? I'm scumhunting just fine, and I'm pretty sure I've found one.

[PenguinPower]

I'd actually like to get an L-1 and a claim on Texcat.

Interesting...

Hmmm...

VOTE: texcat

Claim.

[PenguinPower]

Ah, fucking mobile. WTF?

[PenguinPower]

Seriously considering penguin!scum as higher than bbt rn

OI PENGUIN

L-1

Textcat's slot already claimed, idiots

Jesus Christ you are an idiot. Thanks for ruining that one.

[PenguinPower]

UNVOTE:

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin - so the slot is scummy enough to gambit, but not scummy enough to leave your vote on?

I'm null on the slot. I might put it back on, but I'm considering a few things right now.

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin - so the slot is scummy enough to gambit, but not scummy enough to leave your vote on?

I'm null on the slot. I might put it back on, but I'm considering a few things right now.

Like what?

Just considering you/Zyf and re-reading Martha/texcat.

I'm actually content to go back to karnos until he posts some more.

VOTE: karnos

[PenguinPower]

What do you mean about this? What was it he ruined?

Don't want to say right now...there's no benefit to that at this time. It had nothing to do with quickerhammering/hammering of any kind. As far as an accidental hammer, the votecount was three posts above so the only person with the mental capacity to have accidentally hammer was zyf.

[PenguinPower]

I don't like this. Looks to me like Pengo sheeped Thor, made up an excuse that it was all a "reaction test", and now he can't explain what he was doing himself.

Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I have just stayed on and waited for the claim if that was my original intent?

[PenguinPower]

Why are you asking me lol

You should be the one answering that

No. Your scenario doesn't make sense.

[PenguinPower]

What do you mean about this? What was it he ruined?

Don't want to say right now...there's no benefit to that at this time. It had nothing to do with quickerhammering/hammering of any kind. As far as an accidental hammer, the votecount was three posts above so the only person with the mental capacity to have accidentally hammer was zyf.

I don't even know what to say about this. UGH. Did you think I would claim again?

Had nothing to do with you. I doubt you are so bad that you wouldn't have noticed that your slot had already claimed.

[PenguinPower]

Huh? You put me at L-1 and it had NOTHING to do with me??

It would have been an added bonus if you had slipped, but not my primary purpose...you act like putting someone at L-1 is a bad thing. We're 3ish days in D1. No one was going to hammer you.

I'm done talking about this now.

[PenguinPower]

If I'm sliding what do you call what not_mafia is doing?

Don't know what not_mafia is doing, but you're playing your scum game. Weaker than I would have thought, but...yeah.

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin-- Can you explain how this is Karnos' scum-game? I asked Dunn a similar question, but he hasn't posted since then.

Short version (read: because I'm lazy right now): Scum!Karnos is quiet, careful, and calculated in his posts and votes (of course, the level will vary depending on setup). Town!karnos doesn't give a rat's ass (this does not appear to vary).

I really don't care for this:

Spoiler:

I don't always get to post much on the weekends. It looks like hardly anyone else in this game does either.

I was hopping we could leave texcat at L-1 a little longer to see if anything interesting occurred, but it's probably a town slot. I think Martha looked incredibly scummy due to a language issue, she wasn't using the correct words for certain things and it came out making relatively innocent comments looking very scummy.

Why is everyone voting not_mafia now?

Hey

VOTE: BBT

Well I didn't know game had started so it will take me a bit of time to catch up

Wait what? You posted on Wednesday, and then again Friday, but as of today you didn't know the game had started?

VOTE: not_mafia

CAUTION: I think that might be L-1

The "Caution" is just uncharacteristic and almost screams LAMIST. The "Why is everyone voting NM?" crap and then hopping on is probably him trying to further a mislynch while still allowing himself an out when NM flips town.

To be fair, I'm almost always going to have an initial scum read on karnos.

p-edit

Scum.

[PenguinPower]

Personally, I think calling out L-1 is not necessary and I have never seen a true lolhammer from town occur because someone forgot to call L-1.

But, in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67428 I didn't call L-1 on day 1, was continually read as scum by a few certain players, and I eventually got misslynched day 3.

It is dumb and I agree it's LAMIST but it's just a silly hoop I have to jump through so I don't get misslynched by scum.

...and that concludes my self-defense posts for today, I don't want to muddle the thread and distract from real scum-hunting.

No, no. It's not that you called out L-1...you call L-1 as scum and town...it's the manner in which you did it. Soooo over the top, and I haven't seen that before.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin, You didn't say anything about Zyf's 297 which I found over the top. Why call out Karnos and not Zyf?

I haven't played with Zyf before. I've played a lot with karnos.

Plus...that kind of behavior seems normal for Zyf based on this game alone.

[PenguinPower]

Walk me through both? Why did the Hark read change and why is Karnos scum?

Last I saw you were town reading Tex - what changed?

Both of these have already been answered in thread. Although, to be fair not the Hark read, so I'll answer that. I never had a strong scumread on Hark, and his posting started to feel more controlled. Then karnos came along and I wanted to explore a different avenue which I would like to continue down.

p-edit

[PenguinPower]

We are also still a week from deadline. It just feels weird to be running her up to L-1 again, after we have already been there with martha & texcat. Are we going to get anything new? I doubt it. Are we going to quick lynch when we still have a week left? Seems like anti-town to waste so much potential time. Lets focus on others.

And, yet, 40 minutes later:

VOTE: texcat

[PenguinPower]

There is a very obvious reason for the vote that you are leaving out.

What? Because zyf is scum? Then vote zyf. Bad play to vote texcat because you think zyf is scum bussing.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Hark

Karnos can wait until tomorrow.

[PenguinPower]

You forcing me to claim, and them saying I'm not your top scumread is scummy af.

Scummy enough to lynch?

how does a {karnos, penguin, naru} scumteam sound?

Dumb.

p-edit

I guess that goes for you too.

[PenguinPower]

Finally...

Intent to Hammer

[PenguinPower]

UNVOTE:
not quite ready to end the day yet
i want to give karnos the benefit of the doubt of being a vi

Knew you were going to do that.

[PenguinPower]

Karnos and Harl = TvT

Nope.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: karnos

L-1

[PenguinPower]

UNVOTE:
not quite ready to end the day yet
i want to give karnos the benefit of the doubt of being a vi

Knew you were going to do that.

how?
and is it AI?

Because you're his scum buddy. Seriously.

[PenguinPower]

penguin eats rope tommorow.

[PenguinPower]

Ha! Yeah, I tunneled karnos so hard because I wanted my scumbuddy to get lynched, despite not being townread for it at all. I took placed an intent, then took him back to L-1 when Hark dropped off - like I thought he would.

No, what's more likely is that Hark is trying to set me up for a mislynch.

VOTE: Hark

Probably Thor after that.

[PenguinPower]

Do I really need to do another "bullshit dump"
Because I have better things to be doing
like homework

OK.
If Karnos is town what does that then tell you about Penguin's vore?
If scum?

i'd prefer to discuss that post flip

Now, I guess you prefer not to at all?

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin: I think it's time to explain this:

Jesus Christ you are an idiot. Thanks for ruining that one

Don't want to say right now...there's no benefit to that at this time. It had nothing to do with quickerhammering/hammering of any kind.

Had nothing to do with you.

I'm done talking about this now.

Yeah...no. It's irrelevant at this point, and probably wouldn't have worked the way I intended it to.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah...no. It's irrelevant at this point, and probably wouldn't have worked the way I intended it to.

I insist.

Then lynch me.

[PenguinPower]

I think Thor is mafia, naru wouldn't be a bad lynch either

Why not Hark?

[PenguinPower]

Then lynch me.

You realise I'm townreading you, right?

Great. Then drop it, and let's move on to something useful. What are your thoughts on Hark? You have him listed as a townread.

[PenguinPower]

ah yes, a lot of meta-based play, too

i'm sure bbt appreciates that

Yeah, sucks that it worked in this case, right?

[PenguinPower]

Spoiler: Slightly shorter list of bullshit

@Harko: Where did Martha point her first vote out as RVS? Why are you misrepping her?

Because that's what scum!Hark does.

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

Hmm, is this a chainsaw?

You were interestingly absent from the Martha wagon. Are you texcat's partner?

I'm absent from the wagon because I disagree with it. Someone on it is scum. Right now, I think that could be you.

Seriously considering penguin!scum as higher than bbt rn

OI PENGUIN

L-1

Textcat's slot already claimed, idiots

Jesus Christ you are an idiot. Thanks for ruining that one.

@Penguin - so the slot is scummy enough to gambit, but not scummy enough to leave your vote on?

I'm null on the slot. I might put it back on, but I'm considering a few things right now.

If I'm sliding what do you call what not_mafia is doing?

Don't know what not_mafia is doing, but you're playing your scum game. Weaker than I would have thought, but...yeah.

Finally...

Intent to Hammer

VOTE: karnos

L-1

Then lynch me.

You realise I'm townreading you, right?

Great. Then drop it, and let's move on to something useful. What are your thoughts on Hark? You have him listed as a townread.

You do realize that is a snippet of my ISO and doesn't actually answer the question that was asked...right?

[PenguinPower]

you got onto every big wagon inconspicuously
like
look at penguin's hark vote
"karnos can wait until toMorrow"
liek what

Again...like maybe for the thousandth time...I was/am scum reading both karnos and Hark. I was ok with either going. Glad karnos went, now hark.

[PenguinPower]

Spoiler: Slightly shorter list of bullshit

@Harko: Where did Martha point her first vote out as RVS? Why are you misrepping her?

Because that's what scum!Hark does.

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

Hmmm...I'm liking Hark more now.

Let's try this

VOTE: karnos

Hmm, is this a chainsaw?

You were interestingly absent from the Martha wagon. Are you texcat's partner?

I'm absent from the wagon because I disagree with it. Someone on it is scum. Right now, I think that could be you.

Seriously considering penguin!scum as higher than bbt rn

OI PENGUIN

L-1

Textcat's slot already claimed, idiots

Jesus Christ you are an idiot. Thanks for ruining that one.

@Penguin - so the slot is scummy enough to gambit, but not scummy enough to leave your vote on?

I'm null on the slot. I might put it back on, but I'm considering a few things right now.

If I'm sliding what do you call what not_mafia is doing?

Don't know what not_mafia is doing, but you're playing your scum game. Weaker than I would have thought, but...yeah.

Finally...

Intent to Hammer

VOTE: karnos

L-1

Then lynch me.

You realise I'm townreading you, right?

Great. Then drop it, and let's move on to something useful. What are your thoughts on Hark? You have him listed as a townread.

You do realize that is a snippet of my ISO and doesn't actually answer the question that was asked...right?

i think it does.
Your play is primarily meta-based, meaning you have less responsibility later
as NJAC mentioned, your responses regarding the texcat wagon ("I think it's from scum so I decided to ignore it") followed by a vote, followed by getting angry at me for "ruining" your plan to get a lolhammer or something (another bad: you never explained wtf you did it for)
and your way of getting on and off the karnos wagon was odd
so your voting patterns in general were off

How did karnos' flip impact your read on me?

[PenguinPower]

Great. Then drop it, and let's move on to something useful. What are your thoughts on Hark? You have him listed as a townread.

I don't want to drop it because I find your vote on texcat, pushing for a claim, weird, given that her predecessor already had claimed, and I'm still in the process of getting reads, so it's not like me townreading you is set on stone, so it would be nice if you explain this.

Geez. If everyone knew that texcat's predecessor claimed, then why did Thor ask?

[PenguinPower]

so your voting patterns in general were off

Less erratic than yours.

[PenguinPower]

hark can't really be scum with karnos

Legitimately curious as to why not. I get the exact opposite read, especially since he unvoted when I put the intent to hammer down.

[PenguinPower]

I actually wouldn't mind lynching loopdan either

He's been weirdly inactive.

[PenguinPower]

Nobody read 541, eh?

Seems like a pretty convenient excuse to lurk and not participate.

"Hey, I rolled scum, but this town guy is being hugely inactive. I can claim I'm protesting and not do crap and get away with it!"

Why don't you play instead, or be a martyr?

[PenguinPower]

Geez. If everyone knew that texcat's predecessor claimed, then why did Thor ask?

You should ask him. Stop dodging the request. Explain what you wanted to achieve.

I just did.

[PenguinPower]

No, you didn't

VOTE: Penguin

L-1

I did. Sorry you didn't understand. Not explaining further.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Thor

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Thor

^Desperate scum searching for option of ML
naked for low profile

You're annoying.

You realize that I opened up with Hark/Thor...right?

[PenguinPower]

I started the day that way, but the more he refuses to explain...

So here it is...

Anything else referencing that, I'm ignoring. I won't say anything about it, won't quote, won't respond going forward. If that gets me lynched, then you are all morons tunneling on an irrelevant point.

Done.

[PenguinPower]

Zyf might be scum

I am actually coming around to Zyf/Thor. Hark and Zyf have similar playstyles, but Hark is providing more substance.........

and isn't as annoying.

[PenguinPower]

considering I have a proper case with evidence on you that you ignore in favor of pushing me.

You actually don't. It's weak at best. More "words" than substance.

[PenguinPower]

considering I have a proper case with evidence on you that you ignore in favor of pushing me.

You actually don't. It's weak at best. More "words" than substance.

Lmfao but hark's is a strong push
When we literally said the same things but i went into it more
Right

You're being a blockhead

Are you kidding me? In your combined 400+ posts in this game, I don't think either of you have made a strong, salient point about anyone - maybe Hark did, but I'd have to re-read. Keep that postcount++ going though.

[PenguinPower]

I was trying to kill karnos most of the fucking day, by the way.
but obv. no one believes the midget post spammer

Because you weren't? Pretty sure you didn't focus on him until the last two days. You actually, originally, stated that you wouldn't vote him until after a flip 343. In 434 you stated you didn't even interact with him. 441 you agreed he wasn't scummy even though you had him as nullscum in 351. 523 you got irritated because he "misrepped" you, but you still preferred a texcat lynch. 545 was your first vote on him. You also switched to Hark in 580 and hopped back on in 598.

Just want to quote this because I think it's funny since Hark is using a post of mine with the same phrasing to make me look scummy

Ok karnos can come later
VOTE: thor

Note that came after your vote on karnos and hark.

You hopped off karnos in 775 and back on to texcat. Back on karnos in 777

I think I've just convinced myself that you're full of crap and scum.

VOTE: Zyf

[PenguinPower]

UNVOTE:
(this is a countermeasure to N_M)

again with the fucking shade, holy shit
this makes me uncomfortable because penguin was L-2

A zyf lynch is good too

Yep. He's scum.

[PenguinPower]

Jokes aside,

ok, wtf I can't stand for this karnos is dropping so many scum posts I can't handle it
VOTE: karnos

At the time this post was written, I was at L-1, and Zyf's vote was on texcat. He could have hammered me. Instead he started the wagon on karnos. He is town.

Damn it. That makes sense. Eh, he didn't start it, but that's semantics.

VOTE: Thor

[PenguinPower]

Why is Thor scum Penguin?

D1: Parks vote on texcat. Makes one remark on Hark wagon, no remarks on karnos wagon/lynch, posts "spare you the wall, here's some questions" two hours after the hammer. Creates valid distancing from lynched scum.
D2: Parks vote on naru...and we'll see.

The rest of the crap he's doing he would do as town because it's good to ask questions. He would also do it as scum because it makes him look town, so I'm ignoring it. I don't believe that both remaining scum bussed their buddy - though they could have I guess - so that means one was off. Right now I think that's Thor. NM and Loops slot just haven't done much of anything. I'm meh on texcat still.

[PenguinPower]

So you agree Tex is 'meh' making my push there fine.

You also agree I'm "distanced" from Karnos suggesting there isn't clear scum connection.

You also complain about a defense of a non-flipped slot - which is only scummy if that slot is scum, making it a non-tell at the moment, and also backwards to lynch me first.
You state my iso otherwise is full of stuff I'd do as town.

...why do you scum read me again?

I think it's intentional distancing.

[PenguinPower]

Also, to suggest I only made one remark about Hark is just plainly untrue.
Why do you claim that?

I didn't say you only made one remark about Hark. I said you did about the Hark wagon. 737

p-edit

Because that's what I think right now.

[PenguinPower]

What's the difference between saying;
"I town read Hark"
and
"I think the Hark wagon will result in a flip of a town player"

Because I *REALLY* don't get the difference.
Explain it?

What? What does that even have to do with what I said?

I know you think that, you made it very clear.
I'm wondering why you think that - that's what I asked.

Because it's a good opportunity, so I think you took it.

[PenguinPower]

I'm being clear in what I think - please be clear in your own thoughts.

I don't know how much clearer I can get than:

Makes one remark on Hark wagon, no remarks on karnos wagon/lynch

So 'gut' is the core of your case on me to make me scum since otherwise you agree I'm doing what I'd do as town, correct?

Of course. But that's the advice you give to newbie scum players, so why wouldn't I expect you to do that as either. You can't play this game based completely on logic.

If you had participated/commented/questioned like you're doing now on the Hark/karnos wagons yesterday, I wouldn't have my vote on you right now.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: N_M

[PenguinPower]

I mean, karnos pushed for a N_M lynch even to the point of defending texcat's slot. That makes me think that N_M could be town.

We were roughly halfway through D1. Totally something scum!karnos would do to a scumbuddy.

[PenguinPower]

DV didn't you say that NM is your only scumread? he has posted like twice today, but suddenly you are no longer scumreading him ??

He did say that. Though, he also said that some of his town reads changed which made him rethink, so I look forward to his promised update. I believe it should be morning in Aussie time.

[PenguinPower]

I will most likely vote for BBT, but am keen to see him pop in first.

Ugh. Why? You were ambiguous in your initial read of him - which is why I was hoping it was someone else - so can you explain further why you've changed your read on him?

[PenguinPower]

Can we lynch Hark now?

Yes.

[PenguinPower]

Bbt--N_M wagon. now.

Why aren't you on it?

[PenguinPower]

My wagon is super scummy

Why is Dunnstral scummy?

[PenguinPower]

Why is Dunnstral scummy?

[PenguinPower]

Seriously, can you at least claim? Would have taken less effort than what you expended.

[PenguinPower]

If you're going to play like this, you might as well self-hammer.

[PenguinPower]

What do you mean 'If I'm going to play like this'?

You and N_M are both at L-1 and you're just like "Fuck it, I'm done. Kill me." Weak.

[PenguinPower]

No.

[PenguinPower]

Yep. It's Hark and DV left. Hark's next.

[PenguinPower]

First, I am not scum.

Like, really? Ok...I completely believe and trust you because you said that.

[PenguinPower]

9 fucking days left.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry...that'd be 10 days. My bad.

[PenguinPower]

njac slipped a few times and buddied nm a tad bit too much

VOTE: DeasVail

we have 2 mislynches available. i suggest we lynch in {DV, texcat, Penguin}

No. We lynch in {texcat, Penguin, zyf}

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: texcat

Pretty sure.

[PenguinPower]

Someone just hammer the cat.

[PenguinPower]

Why wait?

[PenguinPower]

If you wanted my opinion, you should have waited to hear it.

^
This is scum.

[PenguinPower]

Great opinion.

[PenguinPower]

lmao....loving N_M.