Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[LicketyQuickety]

Hi,

I'm qualified as an IC, but I don't want the responsibility of having to give "correct" theory. Reason for this is I tend to think outside the box a bit.

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

Also, Hi, hubris, hope you enjoy the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, I am wondering when the view/post ratio goes less than 10/1.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town read on Connor JC.

Slight Scum read on Superhans.

[LicketyQuickety]

Regarding the fact that we have someone at L-2: I'd like to ask that we don't put it (or anyone else) at L-1 until every player has responded in the game thread to avoid accidental/"accidental" lynches, unless we have some actual scummy behavior (not stuff based on the RVS).

Have you played elsewhere or just read up on the wiki?

[LicketyQuickety]

As my first action, the cop is going to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

Hey LicketyQuickety,
Can you explain in more detail what you meant by this?

Thanks,

I would also like to know why Lickety is sure there's a cop and why that would lead to a town read on him (Unless this was just a complete joke).

Not a joke, a reaction test. Big difference.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town read on Connor JC.

Odd that you'd have a townread on someone after they just accused you of trying to get the cop to out when that wasn't the case at all.

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

I've seen a few people talk about it. I saw what looked like you fishing for info as well as Connor making a judgement call strait away. My intention was true as well as a reaction test. I wanted to get a conversation started and see who reacted and how.

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

There's no reason to point this out before LQ has a chance to respond; Superhaus was probably directing that question at LQ in order to get a better read on him, which he can't do as effectively if you're providing all of LQ's answers for him.

Could be, likely actually, but as what alignment is what I think is more interesting.

So, are you saying LQ is scum?

Also, Mafia Roleblocker would know one of two different sets of power roles could be in play. If LQ is a Mafia Roleblocker than they are finding out which is valid.

Either LQ is scum, or your premise that his information is real is a false premise because the only motivation that makes sense for someone with information is that he's attempting to narrow down the setup, which to me seems like a pretty big risk for the possibility of a tiny gain. I think that he was probably bullshitting with the cop stuff.

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

Again, I would like to point out that although I appreciate your response, I was really hoping I could get a response from Lickety for this one.

In addition to the first question, I've a new question for LicketyQuickety:

You imply frequently that you have alternative ways of playing the game and making reads. This is demonstrated by the posts:

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

I don't want the responsibility of having to give "correct" theory. Reason for this is I tend to think outside the box a bit.

And in your blurb thing you've written that "As someone with a creative pattern, you tend to seek unique accomplishments and innovative solutions. On the surface, you may seem to have a contradictory nature. ~Taken from my results regarding motivation from DISC personality test."

What do you think makes your game theory different to traditional game theory?
Also what are you non-traditional reads?

Nothing in particular, I just use unconventional methods, judging what someone says and interpreting it in a way that is not the norm. I am very unconventional that way.
I think I have given the reads I have at this time. But I'll expand:

Connor is a Town read for jumping the gun and trying to get result before anything is conclusive. You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

That's a fast change mate, mind explaining?

[LicketyQuickety]

IDK if there is a cop or not. I left out the

if there is a cop

on purpose.

[LicketyQuickety]

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: superhans

Lickety seems very noob town to me.

Well, I have been listening to YellaWolf lately, so there may be some truth to that.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

yes, I have reasons for my unconventional reads, but I don't like to explain them so I try and get people to do what I want though other means. I've been playing a lot less "direct" lately. Take that for what you will.

here and here for reference of my reasoning.

[LicketyQuickety]

And now I have a question for you Nacho: No talk of RVS, no initial opening IC post. In other words, your experience is showing. Why vote Connor?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm generally pretty inactive on weekends.
Especially on the Friday night I start my summer vacation.

Glad that we have a few good pages of content though, I'll catch up today.

So you're an Aussie? Good, it will be interesting to see how you play.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm generally pretty inactive on weekends.
Especially on the Friday night I start my summer vacation.

Glad that we have a few good pages of content though, I'll catch up today.

So you're an Aussie? Good, it will be interesting to see how you play.

Or I suppose you could be from South Africa as well.. :/

[LicketyQuickety]

South African /

Should have figured. Its morning for you now, isn't it? It would be interesting to know what sites you have played Mafia on in the past if you have and you feel like sharing. Perhaps another time.. after the game maybe we can have a discussion about it?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

1) You said you would unvote them once they posted, so not only is this a non-committal vote, but it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.
2) You are asking something of someone that you haven't done adequately enough yourself ie. reads. You make it sound like the lurker should have definite stances at this point in the game, when you yourself are not doing anything close to that.

3) You make jokes about the smiley being Scummy when I actually didn't list any reasons for why I thought it was a Scummy post. You then go on to interpret why I read the post as Scummy, so you clearly know at least part of the reason for why it is Scummy, which leaves me wondering why you made the post in the first place as Town... Unless you knew it could be interpreted as Scummy when/shortly after you made the post, which is what I am thinking, which is why I think you are Scum.
4) The you give a second reason for your vote. This is over explaining your position. You were Sitting there thinking what you could say to defend yourself and prolly came up with the second bit first then went back and added more of an explanation to you vote which is what we see as the first reason. Either one of these answers wouldn't been too Scummy on their own, but put together, both saying about the same thing (one just more elaborate) and that makes for an over explanation and over explanations (in defence) are Scummy in my book.

[LicketyQuickety]

Probably. He's the IC, it was likely a conversation starter.

I take issue with this... Nacho is a much much better player than myself. I also detailed that I am NOT the IC this game because I didn't/don't want the responsibility.

VOTE: Rautherdir

You are not paying attention.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE

I see, so you HAVE played the game before. Interesting.

[LicketyQuickety]

Oh and heres a little compilation of all of TheDominators contributions so far:

VOTE: Dom
EARLY GAME WAGON WOOOO!!!!!

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

VOTE: superhans

Lickety seems very noob town to me.

Domintaor you need to dominate the conversation a bit more.

Wait until day 2 for that one.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yup, not a normal Newbie.

[LicketyQuickety]

What, is it normal for newbies to not even try to figure out what they're doing?

Stick with the game and you'll be fine.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE

I see, so you HAVE played the game before. Interesting.

I've played 6 on site games, and I'm an SE yes I've played before.
I'm not incredibly experienced but I won't be playing the newb card.

When do/did you consider yourself out of newb status?

[LicketyQuickety]

There are two scum. They could conceivably quickhammer. It would be a stupid move, but it's still a move that could happen.

Comments like this do not make me Town read you...

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety, you've voted for Rautherdir. Would you want to convince others to do the same and why?

I don't want to "force" anything. I am not Rampage.

[LicketyQuickety]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

The point of it not having much context is to avoid accusing or throwing the shift onto someone else. The reason i also only mentioned nacho was because those were my only thoughts, i honestly dont believe anyone has acted enough to be proven town or scum in my book

However I am wary of Superhans and his constant jumping from one player to another within instant but that may just be his playstyle

Actually, throwing the shift on someone else is EXACTLY what you should do if you are A) a PR or B) Scum. Especially if you have no clue how to get yourself Town read. I remember the days where getting lynched day 1 was a common occurrence. To be naive again...

[LicketyQuickety]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

The point of it not having much context is to avoid accusing or throwing the shift onto someone else. The reason i also only mentioned nacho was because those were my only thoughts, i honestly dont believe anyone has acted enough to be proven town or scum in my book

However I am wary of Superhans and his constant jumping from one player to another within instant but that may just be his playstyle

Actually, throwing the shift on someone else is EXACTLY what you should do if you are A) a PR or B) Scum. Especially if you have no clue how to get yourself Town read. I remember the days where getting lynched day 1 was a common occurrence. To be naive again...

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

LOL. You don't think much of RVS, well, I think its never too early to develop reads - use that to your advantage.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Toblerone, you've talked a bit without saying anything. Give your thoughts/reads? I understand you're new but share them anyway.

Yeah to be honest I am not sure who is scummy and who isn't. Most of my thoughts have either been already said by others or countered by others or both

One thing I picked up on was Connor answering questions that were not directed at him. I think Nacho did the same at one point but that was in answer to a genral question. Why did Connor do it? To support LQ? He then did it AGAIN even after Superhans had told him he wnted to hear from LQ

The whole LQ/cop thing seems to me either to be an innocent attempt to get conversation going, OR it could be an attempt to make it look like her is. And all the "not traditional" stuff - whilst I have no idea what he means - I don't like it. It could be setting things up for an argument he will use later.

Dominator has been very quiet, but so have I so that is not an indication of anything in my eyes

Rautherdir seemed very keen to hunt lurkers. I don't know if I count as a lurker but are you implying that lurkers are scum?

I gave two examples from the same game, you should read them.

[LicketyQuickety]

I gave two examples from the same game, you should read them.

To be honest I have enough on my plate reading this game and trying to analyse it and learn as I go along. I don't have time to read other games - or have i misunderstood you?

It was a conversation between myself and Nacho, which means you should have at least taken a look at it, but I'll link it again:

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

yes, I have reasons for my unconventional reads, but I don't like to explain them so I try and get people to do what I want though other means. I've been playing a lot less "direct" lately. Take that for what you will.

here and here for reference of my reasoning.

Those are posts, not games.

[LicketyQuickety]

I really hope we catch some fish.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.
...
UNVOTE: LoveSick

But, Lovesick hasn't offered any reads/thoughts. Why the unvote?

As a matter of fact, Lovesick's only contributions are defending herself. Not one post actively participating in the 'find scum' part of mafia.
VOTE: LoveSick

(L-2)

Clever, that made me smile.

[LicketyQuickety]

Could be, likely actually, but as what alignment is what I think is more interesting.

I'd say that Superhaus's approach was townier than not, but I don't think that it said anything about Connor's alignment. Do you?

No.

Reread that post. I questioned why Super made such a quick change to voting a lurker. You disagree?

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Glad you caught it, was thinking the same thing... about the tracker I mean. However, this game is just getting started and I have no doubts you know how to play the game to survive.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Asking someone what they are doing when they are doing something confusing is not fishing; it's proper play.

Maybe I am a genius or maybe I am looking into motivation that isn't there. Its unlikely I am a genius, however, I could be reading the motivation correctly.

[LicketyQuickety]

That's a fast change mate, mind explaining?

I expect the "combine our efforts" phraseology gave away pretty solidly what the purpose of the vote was, and Superhaus's assertion that he'd unvote when Lovesick gave content showed that he picked up on that purpose. It would be a scummy change of mindset of what he made was a vote with the intention of lynching, but that pretty clearly wasn't the case.

Well, I am Town reading Lovesick for it, so there is that.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Well, It gave me a Town read that you don't disagree with.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Asking someone what they are doing when they are doing something confusing is not fishing; it's proper play.

Well, I am terrible at proper play.

[LicketyQuickety]

Could be, likely actually, but as what alignment is what I think is more interesting.

I'd say that Superhaus's approach was townier than not, but I don't think that it said anything about Connor's alignment. Do you?

No.

Reread that post. I questioned why Super made such a quick change to voting a lurker. You disagree?

I do.

Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

That's a fast change mate, mind explaining?

I expect the "combine our efforts" phraseology gave away pretty solidly what the purpose of the vote was, and Superhaus's assertion that he'd unvote when Lovesick gave content showed that he picked up on that purpose. It would be a scummy change of mindset of what he made was a vote with the intention of lynching, but that pretty clearly wasn't the case.

Well, I am Town reading Lovesick for it, so there is that.

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Well, It gave me a Town read that you don't disagree with.

You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Asking someone what they are doing when they are doing something confusing is not fishing; it's proper play.

Well, I am terrible at proper play.

Is it just me, or does anyone else struggle to understand what LicketyQuickety is actually saying? You're really confusing me, just be more specific with your comments.

What town read did it give you that Nacho agrees with?
Why are you town reading lovesick, what does town reading lovesick have to do with the comments you quoted above?

Lovesicks emotions ran true and that seemed like genuine frustration on their part. I read it as Town feeling like they are being treated unfairly.
Connor is who Nacho and I both have a Town read on.
I was saying in response to what Nacho said about you getting in on the collective of forcing content out of Lovesick is what gave me the Town read on them. I can just as easily see this as opportunism, but I didn't bring that up to Nacho.

[LicketyQuickety]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

You will make a fine smith one day.

[LicketyQuickety]

Connor v Lovesick = TvT

[LicketyQuickety]

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

Cute. Feel free to make a case based on logic when you get back.

[LicketyQuickety]

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Finding Lovesick insufferable, but that doesn't mean she is mafia, just a terrible townie.

TheDominator is mafia (not an original insight).

LQ is definitely snakelike, but not sure that makes him mafia. Slightly scum leaning I would say for now.

<3

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

You will make a fine smith one day.

If you genuinely think so, sure. But just to clarify: if you're scum, complimenting me isn't going to get me to townread you.

In post 105 LQ also said I was intelligent (I thought this was a classic example of brown nosing at the time).

Connor is a Town read for jumping the gun and trying to get result before anything is conclusive. You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

You like brown nosing LQ?

I like commenting on people's (positive) potential in honest ways. I love this game and I want to encourage people to play it, therefore, I will complement people on their play (and other things) if I think they made a good play, I like their mindset or generally just like their vibe.

[LicketyQuickety]

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Finding Lovesick insufferable, but that doesn't mean she is mafia, just a terrible townie.

TheDominator is mafia (not an original insight).

LQ is definitely snakelike, but not sure that makes him mafia. Slightly scum leaning I would say for now.

Does me trying to help gather information in a more efficient way make me more of a horrible townie? I feel as though you are ignoring what I'm trying to point out which is a flaw of both yours and Connor's but whatever I suppose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's just not how the game works here. Its inefficient because diversifying is not

always

the correct or even optimal play. I like to diversify my Scum reads, but I cannot depend on the rest of Town to follow the same leads that I have.

[LicketyQuickety]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

[LicketyQuickety]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

Forced? I'm waiting on him to provide any reasoning behind his vote before concluding on anything, i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems you think Town has the ability to multitask their Scum reads as a whole better than you know how to do yourself. So how does that work exactly?

[LicketyQuickety]

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

This is dangerous territory mate.

[LicketyQuickety]

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

This is dangerous territory mate.

Could you explain why?

You make it look like you are Totally fine giving yourself a Town read. Its used improperly, it can be misconstrued in horrific ways. It even give me some pause.

[LicketyQuickety]

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

This is dangerous territory mate.

Could you explain why?

You make it look like you are Totally fine giving yourself a Town read. Its used improperly, it can be misconstrued in horrific ways. It even give me some pause.

Oh, I see. Maybe that is better phrased as "I now agree with LQ that Lovesick attacking me was townish".

Of course, I now don't think that as much (see my recent posts).

Don't admit to being attacked. Be the attacker, not the attacked. Its a lot harder to defend yourself than attack someone else.

[LicketyQuickety]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

Forced? I'm waiting on him to provide any reasoning behind his vote before concluding on anything, i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems you think Town has the ability to multitask their Scum reads as a whole better than you know how to do yourself. So how does that work exactly?

what do you mean by multitask their scum reads?

I'll give you an example:

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

1) You said you would unvote them once they posted, so not only is this a non-committal vote, but it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.
2) You are asking something of someone that you haven't done adequately enough yourself ie. reads. You make it sound like the lurker should have definite stances at this point in the game, when you yourself are not doing anything close to that.

3) You make jokes about the smiley being Scummy when I actually didn't list any reasons for why I thought it was a Scummy post. You then go on to interpret why I read the post as Scummy, so you clearly know at least part of the reason for why it is Scummy, which leaves me wondering why you made the post in the first place as Town... Unless you knew it could be interpreted as Scummy when/shortly after you made the post, which is what I am thinking, which is why I think you are Scum.
4) The you give a second reason for your vote. This is over explaining your position. You were Sitting there thinking what you could say to defend yourself and prolly came up with the second bit first then went back and added more of an explanation to you vote which is what we see as the first reason. Either one of these answers wouldn't been too Scummy on their own, but put together, both saying about the same thing (one just more elaborate) and that makes for an over explanation and over explanations (in defence) are Scummy in my book.

Probably. He's the IC, it was likely a conversation starter.

I take issue with this... Nacho is a much much better player than myself. I also detailed that I am NOT the IC this game because I didn't/don't want the responsibility.

VOTE: Rautherdir

You are not paying attention.

Note that these posts were made one directly after the other.

[LicketyQuickety]

5) they never come up with a case, which is basically a Scum claim in my book.

[LicketyQuickety]

5) they never come up with a case, which is basically a Scum claim in my book.

I mean its not that difficult to come up with a case for you Lickety. I may agree with lots of the stuff Rautherdir has to say.

That's why it would be a Scum claim And yes, I have caught Scum for not providing reasons for their Scum read on me before.

[LicketyQuickety]

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

[LicketyQuickety]

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

[LicketyQuickety]

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

I'm in an experimental phase in my Mafia career currently. My posts are there for people who can see the true in them, even if I am telling lies (to prove a point).

[LicketyQuickety]

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

Im not gonna lie, i had already lost you back when i asked you to explain it and none of it had helped but i tried to understand and reply accordingly but im pretty sure i didnt

Then look back on this game and laugh in a year or so.

[LicketyQuickety]

lol yeah why would Lovesick being confused mean that she is town?

Because Scum wouldn't be? They would present it in a different way in any case.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

yes, I have reasons for my unconventional reads, but I don't like to explain them so I try and get people to do what I want though other means. I've been playing a lot less "direct" lately. Take that for what you will.

here and here for reference of my reasoning.

If your reasons are good, what use is there in hiding them?

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

[LicketyQuickety]

So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

You keep framing the wagons like they have no purpose unless they are perfectly justified - nothing in mafia will be perfectly justified. Oftentimes you will catch scum for the wrong reasons. Content generation is about putting people in positions where they will have alignment-relevant reactions; maybe everyone votes you and you simply flake out (not alignment indicative), or maybe you get fired up and try to read the people voting you (what you did). I'm fine with giving people room as far as lynching is concerned, but I have no problems with pursuing a lead whenever and wherever I might find them.

Nacho, we've kinda moved on from discussing the Lovesick Wagon, as it wasn't really that fruitful.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Pay attention to everything Nacho does in this game, even more than me, because he has been here since 2009. I don't expect most people to understand the gravity of that, but trust me, that means the man knows what he is doing.

[LicketyQuickety]

I come back to ~75 more posts. Wow you guys are active. Beginning with his first post:

6: There was discussion about this, mostly resolving to that either LQ was rolefishing or he was stirring conversation. Either way, I really didn't get a town vibe from this move, due to the fact that he could have inadvertently revealed power roles in the following conversation.

38: Asking for information to figure out how experienced ConnorJC is. Not really indicative of town or scum.

42: Clarifies that 6 was a reaction test.

47: Notes that he doesn't read people the traditional way.

105: Goes back and forth as to whether he has more information or not. Could be breadcrumbing, actually.

130: Votes for me. That was an iffy reason to vote in my opinion, I made a mistake while reading the player list; is that really a good reason to think I'm scum?

158: There's no reason to go after a lurker by putting them at L-2. My comment probably wasn't the best way to phrase it, but what we were doing was quite frankly overkill.

159: I look forward to seeing your reasons to continue voting/unvote me after this post.

185: Could you please elaborate on this?

234: Or one of them could be a scum-mate. Who knows?

249: I didn't put any reasoning behind it at the time. Because I put my reasoning down afterwards.

262: That doesn't mean you don't defend yourself.

266: 5 is not a possibility.

284: Are you admitting to lying here?

There. Reasons. Please analyze them. LQ, could you answer the questions I asked in here?

Not bad (other than the fact that that post is largely IIoA [at least from my end]). You make a fatal error though: In 249 I was not even talking about you.

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.
...
UNVOTE: LoveSick

But, Lovesick hasn't offered any reads/thoughts. Why the unvote?

As a matter of fact, Lovesick's only contributions are defending herself. Not one post actively participating in the 'find scum' part of mafia.
VOTE: LoveSick

(L-2)

Clever, that made me smile.

pay attention to ALL the votes in those posts and tell me what you see.

[LicketyQuickety]

1) You said you would unvote them once they posted, so not only is this a non-committal vote, but it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.

I disagree that the purpose of the vote was defeated; he wanted Lovesick to take positions on things, she took positions on things. I don't think it's a problem to be non-committal with things; it's not like everyone is confident in the early early stages of the game.

Agree. I get lost in bias sometimes. You make a good point about being "certain" though that is not exactly the angle I was going for.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not bad (other than the fact that that post is largely IIoA [at least from my end]). You make a fatal error though: In 249 I was not even talking about you.

I never said you were talking about me. You were talking about Lovesick who was talking about my vote.

I wasn't talking about that either.

[LicketyQuickety]

Then what were you talking about?

Tone.

[LicketyQuickety]

both saying about the same thing (one just more elaborate) and that makes for an over explanation and over explanations (in defence) are Scummy in my book.

I think it would be more precise to say that Superhaus was rattled moreso than scummy; sometimes you get under people's skin regardless of their alignment. As town, Superhaus is probably rattled because he feels like he's made a mistake as town (which is consistent with his belief that the Lovesick wagon was fruitless) and is freaking out about it a tiny bit whereas if he was scum he was scared because you caught him with his hand in the cookie jar. Either way, I'm not sure the nervousness itself is alignment indicative.

More precise or difference of opinion? There is not a clear cut answer here. It will be left to intuition. BTW, why do you keep defending the guy?

[LicketyQuickety]

Probably. He's the IC, it was likely a conversation starter.

I take issue with this... Nacho is a much much better player than myself. I also detailed that I am NOT the IC this game because I didn't/don't want the responsibility.

VOTE: Rautherdir

You are not paying attention.

Why is not paying attention worth a vote?

Because I think its faked, or, to force them to pay attention. Seemed to do the trick.

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety, you've voted for Rautherdir. Would you want to convince others to do the same and why?

I don't want to "force" anything. I am not Rampage.

Aiming to convince doesn't mean that you're forcing things through.

Yes... (I'm working on it)

[LicketyQuickety]

There are two scum. They could conceivably quickhammer. It would be a stupid move, but it's still a move that could happen.

This shouldn't be a significant concern of yours; trading one townie for the scumteam (which is typically what happens in those situations) is a trade that the Town is perfectly comfortable in making.

I think I've said this before, but this is my first game. I don't exactly know what to prioritize.

Then how did you know how to Link the posts with:

Code: Select all

[post][/post]

?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

Scum read.

Kinda think my English teacher actually described the English language as being limited by the imagination, not limited by how "outside-of-the-box" your methods are.
Explain, also explain clearly (because you also have a habit of confusing everyone with even the simplest comments).

I don't care how long your explanation is, as long as it is sincere, and makes some sense.

F

i

x

e

d

b

r

o

k

e

n

q

u

o

t

e

t

a

g

.

-

-

P

OK, so story time (yay!) When I first started playing the game, I got Scum read... a lot. I was lynched Day 1 8 times out of my first 16 games. People never understood my logic, barring few, and the ones who understood, really understood - they knew exactly where I was coming from and how to interpret my posts. Fast forward ~8ish months. I start seeing myself get Town read, not dying so early so often and generally having decent reads. Made it to late game a few times in my career and I am rarely wrong in Lylo as Town (never made it to Lylo as Scum). IDK when this was, but at some point when I was playing a Mafia game that was not really a Mafia game and I was 3p, I found that I am not too bad at breaking the system. My win con for that game is seen here:

Welcome to DragonCon, TheQuickOne!

You are the Indestructible 3p. That's right, YOU CANNOT DIE. (Unless you are modkilled. Don't make me!) Wincon is to be hit by a kill, investigated, and successfully target someone to protect them from Con Crud. You may choose one target to protect each cycle.

You are now a part of the Third Party team. You can hang out with them during the day here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/svsEDj2CzWC

You are sharing a room here: Room E - http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/HRnquyjjFCXXS

Your Roommates:
StaceofBass
hawkataine
Earthious
Tsubaki

You must choose a daytime destination in here no later than two hours before phase change. Violators will be fined and locked in the basement with the unwashed carriers of con funk. Or worse.

You have $100 to spend. You may borrow and lend, or buy, sell, and trade with other players.

All actions, day or night, must be in bold so I can find them easily, thank you very much.

I only had an inclination to it looking back, but this was really the game that I learned just how crazy I could play and not get Lynched/NKed. At the very start of the game I claimed that I was a treestump who got a passive guilty on someone N0. That person was lynched, while I was not. I ended up actually investigating myself and NKing my partner fulfilling my win con IDK when I did the curd thing but I think it was N1 or N2.

I was then stuck in no man's land for a long time, not really knowing how to use my weird style to my advantage. Suffice to say, I now play in a way where I know people are either going to get what I am saying, or they are not. The ones that don't I am going to try and learn how to use subliminal messaging to get them to understand what I am saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

Scum read.

Kinda think my English teacher actually described the English language as being limited by the imagination, not limited by how "outside-of-the-box" your methods are.
Explain, also explain clearly (because you also have a habit of confusing everyone with even the simplest comments).

I don't care how long your explanation is, as long as it is sincere, and makes some sense.

F

i

x

e

d

b

r

o

k

e

n

q

u

o

t

e

t

a

g

.

-

-

P

OK, so story time (yay!) When I first started playing the game, I got Scum read... a lot. I was lynched Day 1 8 times out of my first 16 games. People never understood my logic, barring few, and the ones who understood, really understood - they knew exactly where I was coming from and how to interpret my posts. Fast forward ~8ish months. I start seeing myself get Town read, not dying so early so often and generally having decent reads. Made it to late game a few times in my career and I am rarely wrong in Lylo as Town (never made it to Lylo as Scum). IDK when this was, but at some point when I was playing a Mafia game that was not really a Mafia game and I was 3p, I found that I am not too bad at breaking the system. My win con for that game is seen here:

Welcome to DragonCon, TheQuickOne!

You are the Indestructible 3p. That's right, YOU CANNOT DIE. (Unless you are modkilled. Don't make me!) Wincon is to be hit by a kill, investigated, and successfully target someone to protect them from Con Crud. You may choose one target to protect each cycle.

You are now a part of the Third Party team. You can hang out with them during the day here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/svsEDj2CzWC

You are sharing a room here: Room E - http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/HRnquyjjFCXXS

Your Roommates:
StaceofBass
hawkataine
Earthious
Tsubaki

You must choose a daytime destination in here no later than two hours before phase change. Violators will be fined and locked in the basement with the unwashed carriers of con funk. Or worse.

You have $100 to spend. You may borrow and lend, or buy, sell, and trade with other players.

All actions, day or night, must be in bold so I can find them easily, thank you very much.

I only had an inclination to it looking back, but this was really the game that I learned just how crazy I could play and not get Lynched/NKed. At the very start of the game I claimed that I was a treestump who got a passive guilty on someone N0. That person was lynched, while I was not. I ended up actually investigating myself and NKing my partner fulfilling my win con IDK when I did the curd thing but I think it was N1 or N2.

I was then stuck in no man's land for a long time, not really knowing how to use my weird style to my advantage. Suffice to say, I now play in a way where I know people are either going to get what I am saying, or they are not. The ones that don't I am going to try and learn how to use subliminal messaging to get them to understand what I am saying.

Story sounds great, but I actually don't care to read it, because I can't see how it can be that relevant to this game. Although Mafia is a complex game, the fundamental idea of the game is very simple, and honestly what is the point of that story?

I'm sure you're a creative genius, but honestly when you mention "Subliminal messaging" I couldn't help but snort with laughter. The only Subliminal messages you are sending to me with this post is that you think we're too stupid to understand your reads, which is why you couldn't possibly even consider explaining them.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I will unvote once you explain in DEPTH (two pages of A4 handwritten (thats four sides)) of

why you had a townread on ConnorJC post #30

(waay back)

Not sure how I can explain. He came on strong... Too strong to be Scum. If that is not good enough for you, call it a gut read.

[LicketyQuickety]

Correct, Forceful, At Ease.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm also a depressed perfectionist if that helps.

[LicketyQuickety]

Solid outside of the box analysis you have there Dr Freud.
UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

Basically your read is just gut, then... hmmm.

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

You found a contradiction in my play, good for you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Correct, Forceful, At Ease.

What do you mean by this. Can you be less cryptic please.

CDS ~ Taken from Disc.

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety outside of the game, I am also depressed (to an extent) with whatever work I produce. I feel for you.

It is life; not something to dwell over.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ next time you scum read please just say it's a gut feeling rather than "non-traditional" reads. Gut is actually very very traditional.

Lets talk about this shall we? Do you think someone coming on too strong is a Town tell that cannot be faked?

[LicketyQuickety]

Common, really lets get into the psychology of stuff. The juicy stuff.

When a Player comes out swinging out of the game, the positive is ALWAYS a Town tell. The negative is much more subdued when faking it, therefore, coming on too strong is ALWAYS a Townie reaction at least if not a very reliable Town tell.

[LicketyQuickety]

And Ofc you have to account for the said person coming on too strong and this can be done through analyzing word choice and narrative. So if you disagree with my assessment, provide your reasons and we can talk about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Semantics.. Do something.

[LicketyQuickety]

L-2

[LicketyQuickety]

Or we could switch to me v LQ. I'm not backing down until I hear LQ's current reasons to vote me.

So what I get from the past few posts is that LQ votes based on his gut and not specific reasons. Which would make it extremely difficult for him to answer my question.

UNVOTE:

I still don't know for sure if you're town, LQ, but I noticed something a bit more disconcerting.

VOTE: TheDominator37

Somehow you've gotten away with three posts, two of which were votes. One of those votes was an RVS self-vote, and the other was an unexplained vote for Superhans. An explanation would be more than appropriate.

Come again?

[LicketyQuickety]

What are your reasons to vote me LQ?

You're acting too shy/standoffish all the while trying to appear like you are doing more than you really are. Its a mixture of Tone reading your posts and the stances you have made.

[LicketyQuickety]

What are your reasons to vote me LQ?

And there is a tiny thing that could make me Town read you more for this post. I am already given pause because of this post. I can explain the reason, but like a lot of times, people are not going to understand how that is valid logic because it is based on psychology and not facts.

[LicketyQuickety]

I actually agree with LQ here, however I still think TheDom bandwagon is the place to be.
I'll be back at my computer in about 20 minutes, and I'll be back to spamming posts then.

Keep this up and I will start to think you are trying to link myself to you as you being Scum and trying to take me down with you.

[LicketyQuickety]

I actually agree with LQ here, however I still think TheDom bandwagon is the place to be.
I'll be back at my computer in about 20 minutes, and I'll be back to spamming posts then.

Keep this up and I will start to think you are trying to link myself to you as you being Scum and trying to take me down with you.

So agreeing with someone's reads is linking yourself to them?
You're the one that was complimenting me every 3-4 posts a couple pages ago.

You have been doing it all game - as soon as I Town read you.

I complemented your play because I see some of myself in how you play. That is different than what you are doing. What you are doing is outright agreeing with what I am saying/conclusions I am making. It could just be that I am not used to that, however, it makes me think that something is up when someone starts whit knighting me. IDK if you are genuine yet or not, even though that doesn't immediately change my Town read on you.

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

So quick to judge the wrong things...

Yes, Dom has been sub par so far. But yes, I think he might pick his play up at some point. He is playing his game right now, let him do his thing (At least I will be pressuring him vicariously through other people, watching and waiting).
No, Dom is not either a horrible Town player or Scum. Not necessarily at least.

[LicketyQuickety]

Sure, I've agreed with you more than disagree, that's going to happen with some players. However, I haven't agreed with everything you say, see here for an obvious example:

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

This one's an example (Also see where I've disagreed in the past). I actually agree with the end result here (town) but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

how do you judge the motive of Lovesick in that post? I find people are easiest to read when they don't think they are being read. Do you understand that?

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

So quick to judge the wrong things...

Yes, Dom has been sub par so far. But yes, I think he might pick his play up at some point. He is playing his game right now, let him do his thing (At least I will be pressuring him vicariously through other people, watching and waiting).
No, Dom is not either a horrible Town player or Scum. Not necessarily at least.

Maybe I was too harsh; however, he is

not

playing the game right now.

I would not be so quick to make that judgement either. he very well could be using himself as bait to see who easily hops on.

[LicketyQuickety]

Maybe. I would go after FancyPants, but he already gave a reason for his lack of voting.

Reasons only go as far as you can throw them. If you think something is Scummy, vote it. Its this kind of attitude that is not typical of Townies.

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

So quick to judge the wrong things...

Yes, Dom has been sub par so far. But yes, I think he might pick his play up at some point. He is playing his game right now, let him do his thing (At least I will be pressuring him vicariously through other people, watching and waiting).
No, Dom is not either a horrible Town player or Scum. Not necessarily at least.

Maybe I was too harsh; however, he is

not

playing the game right now.

I would not be so quick to make that judgement either. he very well could be using himself as bait to see who easily hops on.

In my opinion that'd be terrible play. And if that's the case the 'quickly' part of that strategy is over, and he's still basically prod dodging.

If you're going to go after someone like that, make sure you do it with the right reasons ie. voting him for constantly prod-dodging. Always take the most likely to believe reasons when you make your push (I know I am a horrible example of this, just take my word for it).

[LicketyQuickety]

Just checked, I apparently have only have voted with nacho. This is only over two votes though, and I wasn't right after him on the first vote (aka this is a coincidence).

This is something I would try and pull if I was Scum in your shoes.

[LicketyQuickety]

Just checked, I apparently have only have voted with nacho. This is only over two votes though, and I wasn't right after him on the first vote (aka this is a coincidence).

This is something I would try and pull if I was Scum in your shoes.

Are you saying you now think I'm scum?

Not necessarily. Really glad you asked though.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a pretty strong Town read on Tobler after an ISO. His thought are completely open process.

[LicketyQuickety]

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

If he would have said something like:

"Bullshit, you are just trying to use WIFOM"

Followed by a vote on me, I would likely have scum read him for such.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37
VOTE: Nachomamma8
I think it's time we got some scum.

Brah, naked vote. Your vote on Dom accomplished nothing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Uhg. I need to sleep.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LicketyQuickety
Regarding posts: 363, 364, and 365.
In these posts we are looking at your Town read of ConnorJC, in post 30.

Lets talk about this shall we? Do you think someone coming on too strong is a Town tell that cannot be faked?

So you think that ConnorJC is "coming on too strong" and that this constitutes as a town read. What does 'coming on too strong' actually mean? Is it just because of how quickly ConnorJC scum read you in 27?

No, that is not the sole reason. I'll try and dissect the post so you know where I am coming from.

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

He says "So you're saying" and follows that up with an assumption on the motive of my play.

He is coming on strong here because there is an incredible amount of intent behind him saying this.

He is basically saying "I just caught you trying to out the Cop!" but he says it in a way that shows how he got to that conclusion in an attempt to influence others to agree with his point.
He then makes a comment "Doesn't seem like a town play to me." This language used here is downplayed showing he is so secure in his statement that he doesn't feel the need to butter it up and that the statement speaks for itself.
Then he votes me thinking there is no more explanation needed.

When a Player comes out swinging out of the game, the positive is ALWAYS a Town tell. The negative is much more subdued when faking it, therefore, coming on too strong is ALWAYS a Townie reaction at least if not a very reliable Town tell.

What do you mean "swinging out of the game" is this the same as "coming on too strong"? What do you mean by positive and negative can you elaborate your logic. If coming on too strong is always a townie tell then why would it not be very reliable, you contradict yourself within a sentence.

Maybe you have never heard the expression "comes out swinging" its a boxing reference that means that that person doesn't care for postering, they simply want to get down to business so they just come out swinging their fists rather than trying to analyze the situation before making any decisions. And yes, its a form of coming on too strong. When I said there were positive and negatives, I meant that as a positive, the statement in genuine and as a negative it was faked. I am saying that when faking it, the exact way it was said is used is not the same as when it is genuine. So no, there is no contradiction in what I said.

And Ofc you have to account for the said person coming on too strong and this can be done through analyzing word choice and narrative. So if you disagree with my assessment, provide your reasons and we can talk about it.

Why write 'ofc you have to account for the said [...] this can be done through analysing word choice' when you haven't even bothered to quote anything that Connor wrote, or comment on it.

WHICH

word do you personally find interesting and used to make your town read?
Also instead of writing "The said person coming on too strong" just write "ConnorJC coming on too strong", doing it this way is less confusing.

See my previous comment. I said it to clarify what I meant because I knew people wouldn't understand so I was trying to be clear about the distinction. Its not specific words but more the structure of the sentence where the words used com into play. I could have made it specific to Connor, but it wouldn't have driven the point home that this doesn't just work with him and can work with others as well. So while less confusing, it is also less accurate.

I find this comment the most worrying

What are your reasons to vote me LQ?

And there is a tiny thing that could make me Town read you more for this post. I am already given pause because of this post. I can explain the reason, but like a lot of times, people are not going to understand how that is valid logic because it is based on psychology and not facts.

Psychology is actually a science, and although it certainly isn't as black and white as a discipline such as maths, there is no way you can justify not explaining something because it is based on psychology.

There is a way. That was is that people will disagree with me or simply not agree that my perspective is a valid metric to use. Since I already know some people are never going to understand my perspective, it is counter productive to try and explain it to them. I linked two examples from the same game where this exact thing happened.

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Where is everyone getting this LQ's reads are 100% gut reaction thing from? His posts can be confusing though, I wish he'd clarify - as his reasoning appears to be good, just his way of saying it is bad.

Read posts 350, 351 and 355. Throughout the game LQ has stated he uses original techniques to derive his reads, I called him out and asked him to actually attempt to explain what these techniques were – LQ was unable to do so, as he basically is just making gut reads.
Is this Scum play? In my opinion, not necessarily. Just looking at LQ’s bio reveals that he thinks he’s creative, and I doubt LQ actually realises that a hazy amateur “Guess-estimation” of someone’s alignment based on skimming through their posts doesn’t count as a psychological analysis.

"We're going to have a problem here."

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

Should have waited on that longer, mate. You didn't even wait a full page.

[LicketyQuickety]

My Town read on Toblerone hasn’t changed, although I disagree with lots of his reads in post 432.
I agree with Toblerone’s read on TheDominator, I think everyone agree Dom is scummy so this isn’t original in any way.
I agree with Toblerone that LicketyQuickety is very difficult to play with, but I like LicketyQuickety’s display of logic in post 447.

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

He says "So you're saying" and follows that up with an assumption on the motive of my play.

He is coming on strong here because there is an incredible amount of intent behind him saying this.

He is basically saying "I just caught you trying to out the Cop!" but he says it in a way that shows how he got to that conclusion in an attempt to influence others to agree with his point.
He then makes a comment "Doesn't seem like a town play to me." This language used here is downplayed showing he is so secure in his statement that he doesn't feel the need to butter it up and that the statement speaks for itself.
Then he votes me thinking there is no more explanation needed.
[...]

^ Like this very articulate explanation, if you (LQ) could keep up explanations that are this simple I would be much more inclined to trust you.

I agree with you that Rautherdir’s reasoning was patchy, but then so was LicketyQuickety’s reasoning for voting Rautherdir.
I’m finding it difficult to read Nacho because of how confident he is, and also being IC he is taking such a leading role that there aren’t really any Scum reads, yet. I find the idea that Nacho may be Scum very very unsettling as being such an experienced player I’d imagine it would be very difficult to realise it.
Need more content from FancyPants.
Getting a slight town read from Lovesick but agree with Toblerone that we need more stuff less fluff from her.

Brah, I get that you like me to explain things so indepthly, but honestly I find it enormously restricting for my play to play that way. I'd be more inclined to tell you to catch up. If I was to explain everything I am seeing like that, that is all I would be doing. It would then be inefficient for me to have the style of play that I have. I wouldn't be able to make plays like my first post of the game. The only reason I explained it to you like that is to show that, yes, I do actually base my assessments on logic and I am not completely insane. hell, even my post where I linked the youtube video of limp bizkit what a reaction test.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel that ConnorJC fighting Lovesick on the theory that Lovesick and TheDominator could both be mafia is kinda far-fetched. Not saying that they couldn't but I think ConnorJC is over-reading Lovesick defending Dom.
ConnorJC in post 413 Lovesick denounces TheDominator.

I've got a gut feel that your fighting is TvT.

Why identify it as a "fut feeling?"

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel that ConnorJC fighting Lovesick on the theory that Lovesick and TheDominator could both be mafia is kinda far-fetched. Not saying that they couldn't but I think ConnorJC is over-reading Lovesick defending Dom.
ConnorJC in post 413 Lovesick denounces TheDominator.

I've got a gut feel that your fighting is TvT.

Why identify it as a "gut feeling?"

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

Cos it could easily bet TvS or SvS

You opt for defense rather than replying to my retort on why I don't like explaining anything. Why is that?

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

Good, you're paying attention!

LicketyQuickety, you've voted for Rautherdir. Would you want to convince others to do the same and why?

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Finding Lovesick insufferable, but that doesn't mean she is mafia, just a terrible townie.

TheDominator is mafia (not an original insight).

LQ is definitely snakelike, but not sure that makes him mafia. Slightly scum leaning I would say for now.

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

5) they never come up with a case, which is basically a Scum claim in my book.

I mean its not that difficult to come up with a case for you Lickety. I may agree with lots of the stuff Rautherdir has to say.

I think he's saying that they all moved to me v LQ

Pedit: 5 required me to not post reasons. I posted reasons. 5 is no longer valid.

LQ, I've (I admit somewhat badly) given reasons for my vote on you, what are your current reasons for your vote on me?

It's just the number of the post you want inside the post tags. I think. It worked for me.

Or do drag up the wagon, but insist that Lovesick doesn't just spam her (imho terrible) Game theory on how we should only focus on one player at a time.

Or we could switch to me v LQ. I'm not backing down until I hear LQ's current reasons to vote me.

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

[LicketyQuickety]

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

Why would you tell them that?

I thought about that. I am not telling them, I am telling everyone.

[LicketyQuickety]

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

Why would you tell them that?

I thought about that. I am not telling them, I am telling everyone.

In my opinion it would've been better to wait for superhans to reply and then tell everyone that.

That's no fun, where's the challenge in that?

[LicketyQuickety]

Superhans seems noob town to me. My explanation for us being polite with each other is that we're both new players and realize that about each other.

^ Daaamnn

Just tried one of these links, I saw that green code with [post= ] [/post] and thought it was referring to posts in this thread *facepalm*

Well I didn't want to play the noobcard, but I guess I can't help myself.

I find this very interesting indeed.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

What I find interesting is that TheDominator is on the forum's active list but isn't posting here. It seems that its lack of posts is intentional.
Now, what conclusions we should draw from that, I have no idea rn.

pedit: Thought I'd point this out while it's relevant, but don't let me distract the superhans/rautherdir stuff going on

I alluded to this before - That Dom could be not posting on purpose as a reaction test. Dom is seeing me taking the lead and seems fine with that.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

What I find interesting is that TheDominator is on the forum's active list but isn't posting here. It seems that its lack of posts is intentional.
Now, what conclusions we should draw from that, I have no idea rn.

pedit: Thought I'd point this out while it's relevant, but don't let me distract the superhans/rautherdir stuff going on

I alluded to this before - That Dom could be not posting on purpose as a reaction test. Dom is seeing me taking the lead and seems fine with that.

I know you did; however, now that its bandwagon has cooled down, I think that it's about time TheDom showed us some content.

Sometimes the longer you wait when doing a reaction test, the more info you can get from it. I told you that before, remember?

[LicketyQuickety]

Or

we

could switch to me v LQ. I'm not backing down until I hear LQ's current reasons to vote me.

Interesting, huh?

[LicketyQuickety]

I meant everyone. I would still like some of the other players to comment on that.

That's what I thought at first, but I am doubtful of that currently. Why didn't you bring it up again if you genuinely wanted to hear from everyone about it? Seems a bit convenient of you to say now that I quoted the post that you now want to hear from more people about it. I suppose I can look into this more though.

[LicketyQuickety]

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not really pursuing it right now because there are multiple people not really contributing at all for various reasons.

Why the single mindedness in this game? I've seen it a few times come up. You can balance things to push, it doesn't need to be all or nothing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Right now he

seems

town.

FTFY

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not entirely sure, okay? I'm not really sure about anyone right now. Except about Dominator being a lurker.

non-committal on everyone in the game???

[LicketyQuickety]

BTW, I have a Town read on Dom.

[LicketyQuickety]

Could you explain that read?

Its unlikely he is lurking as Scum. He's a power player.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am not familiar with that term

I am also a power player. Are you getting closer to understanding yet?

[LicketyQuickety]

BTW, I have a Town read on Dom.

I almost feel like you're fishing for reactions again here.

LQ, what do you think of a Rautherdir-Lovesick scumteam?

Lovesick is Town for the same reason Rautherdir is not.

[LicketyQuickety]

You both use complicated strategies?

We make power plays. It doesn't have to be an advanced strategy, it just has to work.

[LicketyQuickety]

That's a fast change mate, mind explaining?

I expect the "combine our efforts" phraseology gave away pretty solidly what the purpose of the vote was, and Superhaus's assertion that he'd unvote when Lovesick gave content showed that he picked up on that purpose. It would be a scummy change of mindset of what he made was a vote with the intention of lynching, but that pretty clearly wasn't the case.

Well, I am Town reading Lovesick for it, so there is that.

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Well, It gave me a Town read that you don't disagree with.

You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Asking someone what they are doing when they are doing something confusing is not fishing; it's proper play.

Well, I am terrible at proper play.

Is it just me, or does anyone else struggle to understand what LicketyQuickety is actually saying? You're really confusing me, just be more specific with your comments.

What town read did it give you that Nacho agrees with?
Why are you town reading lovesick, what does town reading lovesick have to do with the comments you quoted above?

Lovesicks emotions ran true and that seemed like genuine frustration on their part. I read it as Town feeling like they are being treated unfairly.
Connor is who Nacho and I both have a Town read on.
I was saying in response to what Nacho said about you getting in on the collective of forcing content out of Lovesick is what gave me the Town read on them. I can just as easily see this as opportunism, but I didn't bring that up to Nacho.

For reference @Connor.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ, are you still townreading lovesick?

yup.

[LicketyQuickety]

The only reason I have for thinking LQ is mafia at this point is his possible rolefishing post 6, and his failure to adequately explain some of his votes when they were made. Now that I know his primary reason for those votes was a gut feeling I no longer read him as mafia, but I still don't like his post 6.

You're still pushing that all I do is based on gut, huh? Then you are light years behind me.

[LicketyQuickety]

The only reason I have for thinking LQ is mafia at this point is his possible rolefishing post 6, and his failure to adequately explain some of his votes when they were made. Now that I know his primary reason for those votes was a gut feeling I no longer read him as mafia, but I still don't like his post 6.

You're still pushing that all I do is based on gut, huh? Then you are light years behind me.

I mean, this is a direct quote from your wiki page:

Trust your Gut- The single best way to read people.

Keep reading it. See where I say how I read people. That might clear some things up.

[LicketyQuickety]

The only reason I have for thinking LQ is mafia at this point is his possible rolefishing post 6, and his failure to adequately explain some of his votes when they were made. Now that I know his primary reason for those votes was a gut feeling I no longer read him as mafia, but I still don't like his post 6.

You're still pushing that all I do is based on gut, huh? Then you are light years behind me.

I mean, this is a direct quote from your wiki page:

Trust your Gut- The single best way to read people.

Keep reading it. See where I say how I read people. That might clear some things up.

BTW I need to update that section because it is outdated. Now, now I set traps.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to here what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to hear what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

how many games have you played? I am interested because IMO you show great promise.

[LicketyQuickety]

I've played a little of SC2 Mafia/Town of Salem.

I missed this the first time around. This explains it.

[LicketyQuickety]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

That also explains why you are following me. My my, I have painted myself a better player than I really am. I feel completely arrogant about that. *sigh*

[LicketyQuickety]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

That also explains why you are following me. My my, I have painted myself a better player than I really am. I feel completely arrogant about that. *sigh*

No, I mean power roles (Cop would be a good example here), not what you're calling power players.

You have also been following Nacho.

[LicketyQuickety]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

That also explains why you are following me. My my, I have painted myself a better player than I really am. I feel completely arrogant about that. *sigh*

No, I mean power roles (Cop would be a good example here), not what you're calling power players.

You have also been following Nacho.

I disagree there; however, none of this really has any relevance to the game.

You sure?

[LicketyQuickety]

You sure?

Well, feel free to tell me how me following/not following certain players helps you discover my alignment.

Its not about following certain players, its about whether you do it at all or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ, are you still townreading lovesick?

yup.

Is there any other reason for townreading me other than my emotional response due to my votes?

That is all I need.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Lovesick, excluding yourself, who do you think has the best reads right now and why?

Im unsure of whether by this you mean the reads made on people or the person they are made by, I'm going go with the first assumption though feel free to nudge me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

Well not many people have had published a full list of reads which makes matters quite difficult ( I should eventually get to publishing actual reads on people but I rather withdraw until Denominator and Fancy contribute a bit more to give me a more rounded and fair overview on them ) I think the person which has had the best reads so far is Superhans - despite my wariness of his jumpy playstyle, he has managed to actually get a quite townish/neutral read from Tob and no one other than myself has found his playstyle that scummy. Though once again it's very hard to decide as some reads are outdated and should be updated along with two members being inactive and not full reads made on all players.

I didn't mean who is getting townread the most - I meant who has the best reads.

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

I don't think it was that obvious until reviewed after the fact. It certainly wasn't mentioned until several pages after it happened.
I expect that scum, at least at the beginning of the game, are far more likely to defend their own rather than a random player, just because it's the natural thing to do.

Oh.. Do you consider utter voidance and distance inbetween two players during a game a scumplay or disregard as just no aknowledgement from either towards eachother?

That's more dependent on context. Also, I'm not looking for "plays", or what players do intentionally. I think scum players instinctively (aka an unintentional pattern) help their buddies in the period following RVS more than other players.

Getting to the second page now.

Well I dropped hints throughout my explanation that deciding who has the best reads would be difficult w as Tob is the only person with a full list that is updated so Im going to say him.

If its more dependent on the context then why try to bring up a point which is all based on play? I don't think me defending Denominator was unintentional as that was my purpose and i was well aware that it was what I was doing. I mean personally I think that it was pretty obvious from the getgo that I was defending him in the sense that he shouldn't be bombarded with votes. A scum team can just as easily argue and bring points against each other as can two townies, it's all about play and motives.

This post confirms it though.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hi all if you have anything specific to ask me ask now. I apologise for my absence but this thread has exploded in a very busy weekend for me, and has ceased to become a game I can follow in idle moments.
I'll do a full read list and my game analysis this evening when I have a solid three hours to read and think. Until then as I said bring your most pertinent questions to the fore.

Have you read any of the posts over the weekend (Just want to know before i asked anything)

I've read the first 10 pages or so, but need to do a full reread in any case, going to watch Rogue One in an hour so I'll get to it after that.

How many Post Per Page do you view?

[LicketyQuickety]

Lets see what happens when I do this:

ConnorJC

- this is one that I have a strong scum feel for. Mainly gut feel but

there were a couple of things such as when LQ said he was agreeing with him a lot and he quickly defended himself.

Also I keep going back to him answering questions on behalf of others

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Just trying to point out that I have generated a lot of content this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

LicketyQuickety (SE)
The village idiot or the scummy mastermind, that is the question!
Probably the former, don't see a sinister scum plot from him. Could be wrong, and I've disagreed with A LOT he has said but that's not scummy. Probably town.

Not going to lie, you took the wind right out of my sails when you said I was VI. I have half a mind to think its a ploy actually.

Nachomamma8 (IC)
Good questions, I see a clear thought process at scum hunting, genuinely wants to game solve. Strong town read, would be stronger if he wasn't an IC.

I was thinking the same actually. Not only is he giving advice to newbs, but he is also playing pro-town at the same time. I don't think I could balance this half as well as he is.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ ur seriously thick. (ill be posting quality shit in a minute)

I do like your music choice though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQOG5BkY2Bc

Here is my retort:

[LicketyQuickety]

I've still got a gut (just because I know how screwed we would be if he weren't town) scum read on Nacho.

Yup, clearly this is the correct way to play the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Mate, you just made this shit personal.

@ConnorJC, If you could kill

THREE

people right now (woo hoo) who would they be?

[LicketyQuickety]

@LicketyQuickety
This is D1, anyone could be scum, however, much you

want to suck them off

idolise them.

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to here what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

You are playing scared by Scum reading Nacho, BRO.

How about you learn to read between the lines a bit? I know its hard, but you can't do it if you don't try.

I am now Town reading you because I don't think you are smart enough to play this way as Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ, is insulting people really the best way to get town-read?

You sure you want me to answer that?

[LicketyQuickety]

I think they are insulting each other.

And I didn't start it.

This is what he wrote:

moron

Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don't want to be

that

kid, but LicketyQuickety did provoke me first in post 606. This is a Newbie game, and LQ could have addressed what he identified as noob play in a more constructive manner.

What did I say about not wanting to be the IC?

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ What is your read on Lovesick?

She is Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

It's because this was all of his reads. What he said was basically just a rehash of what other people had already said. This could be because he's new, or because he's scum that's way too careful.

I also posted about Lovesick in a later post. As I said previously, every time I think something about a player or a post it seems that pretty soon after someone else has already echoed my thoughts in the thread. So I can either (a) post nothing and not contribute or (b) post my thoughts even if this means repeating what other people have already said. However, this is not "rehashing" as you put it - just because my views are the same as others does not mean I am copying them. There can only be a certain few viewpoints on people and posts and with 9 players there are bound to be people who have the same viewpoint

Its absolutely fine to share viewpoints with other players and if you agree with a theory that has already been stated, reinstating it (not rehashing, for instance you can say, 'I agree with the theory first proposed by player x etc etc',) adds weight to the theory, or at the very least, makes you easier to read.

Yes, but people rarely have the exact same viewpoint in this game. That is why adding variations to the reasons for the conclusion go a long way.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ What is your read on Lovesick?

She is Town.

Is this because of her emotional reaction to post 113 or do you have any newer reads?

I already went over this with her even. I know you are paying attention in this game, so I have no idea why you are bringing this up right now.

Lovesick asked if that post was the only reason I was Town reading them and I said "That is all I need." My next post I quoted from her I said that confirmed it for me.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ
Naturally.
I was just saying to Toblerone, that his ideas don't need to be 100% original, especially if he is intimidated from posting for this reason.

Right.

I gave my read on that one as well. I said his thinking was open process.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ
Can you also answer my questions in 604 about

why

you think Rautherdir is scum. Please elaborate in great great detail and include newer posts made by Rautherdir after you first made your vote.

A detailed post would be very helpful to me.

See, the thing is, I am really quite lazy.

Would you buy it if I said a lot of the reasons I Scum read them are reasons that have already been stated?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'll give you a new reason though.

Their case on me that I am Scum was completely lackluster. This is because Scum have a much harder time fabricating a Scum read (or reads in general). To compound on this, they later said they don't have any strong reads. So then, why the strong push on me in the first place? I mean, they linked a lot of my posts and tried to use those as evidence for why I am Scum, but guess what? No one really bought those reasons. I would be a wagon right now if that post was legit.

TL;DR they are faking their reads.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LicketyQuickety
This is D1, anyone could be scum, however, much you

want to suck them off

idolise them.

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to here what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

You are playing scared by Scum reading Nacho, BRO.

How about you learn to read between the lines a bit? I know its hard, but you can't do it if you don't try.

I am now Town reading you because I don't think you

are smart enough

don't have enough experience to play this way as Scum.

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

There were two reasons I voted LQ.

One was post 6

. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

You might be the only one saying that.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have a question for Nachomamma:

If you're pretty sure you are about to be lynched and you are a power role, should you claim?

Claim at L-1 and preferably with someone giving intent shortly before EOD (End Of Day).

[LicketyQuickety]

You gunna claim Doc? That is the correct play as Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Okay. I'm wondering in case I get quickhammered. Actually, if anyone quickhammers me before I can claim, policy-lynch them please.

PEdit. No. There's a reason I was suspicious of post 6.

Dom would prolly be the only one I can think of in this game who would quick hammer.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ can you dumb what you're saying down a bit for me.

Look at the setup carefully and try and guess what claim would yield the best results as Scum. As Scum, you want to out PR(s) if you are getting lynched. Claiming Doc as Scum has the best outcome and is also the easiest claim to make because it is so easy to come up with a plausible NA.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, except if for some ridiculous line of logic I decided to claim doctor there would probably be at least one other town player who could reliably call me out on it.

Pedit: 609 for my reads.

yup, that's kinda the point to claiming Doc if you are Scum. You trade a PR for a Mafia.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lovesick read isn't original, pointed out by LQ.

I don't think I actually pointed out that R's lovesick read wasn't original, but thanks anyways.

P-Edit: I got a hankering feeling that FP is Scum. Its is kinda sorta gut though.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, I haven't factored in your recent action. The reasons FancyPants voted me are true, I haven't really posted much of value due to my own ineptitude and my ill-thought out attack on LQ pretty much sealed my fate, I can't really prove him wrong because I don't want to shift from TheDominator and it hasn't posted enough content for me to make any actual attacks against it. FancyPants I read as town. Even though he's voting me.

Pedit: I'm at L-2 I think.

I was P-Editing this btw.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ defended it. Lovesick defended it, but then took that back. So I'm going to say one of them. Here's a suggestion though: don't flip-flop. It gets you lynched.

FWIW, I don't agree that flip flopping is a Scum tell. Town are just as likely to do it IMO.

P-Edit: Good point, bro!

P-Edit: its starting to get juicy now.

P-Edit: I think R could actually be cop here.

P-Edit: I don't want to see any talk about preflip regarding Dom, is that understood?

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

[LicketyQuickety]

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

The reason why I think scum over "bad town player" based on his latest post is because of where his posting is focused. When Dom came to the thread, he thought that the most important thing that he could do was take credit for starting early discussion; a town player

probably

wouldn't be interested in whether they started discussion or not; instead, they'd be worried about finding scum. What Dom's focus demonstrated is that he's more worried about his image than anything else, which is a sign of scum.

You say Dom is typical of Scum behavior here.

Maybe. I would go after FancyPants, but he already gave a reason for his lack of voting.

Reasons only go as far as you can throw them. If you think something is Scummy, vote it. Its this kind of attitude that is not typical of Townies.

Some people hesitate more than others; this isn't necessarily alignment indicative.

Yet here you say when I say its not typical behavior of a Townie, you make the point of saying it is NAI.

What am I missing here?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Lovesick, what are your thoughts on a town (maybe PR?) Rautherdir?

Possible. He's a new player who's currently fumbling on his words out of pressure being put on him.. I've seen it happen to town and scum and all sorts of roles that these players come out as.
The more important thing here is how people would react to him making a claim on a power role.

Now that Rautherdir has gone through his claiming but not claiming song and dance, he is all but 100% confirmed town; scum claiming PR with so little pressure at this point and risking a counterclaim doesn't really make sense. Town claiming this early because they are afraid they will get hammered before they have the chance to speak does.

I've seen more elaborate fakes before if I am being honest.

[LicketyQuickety]

IMO, R might as well claim at this point, unless someone thinks this will be harmful to Town and I can't see an argument where R not claiming is a good idea. It will eliminate WIFOM, and give us security that we will have a known Townie who is likely to die. It will also help narrow down the setup, which I think in this situation, helps Town more than hurts it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I've seen more elaborate fakes before if I am being honest.

How elaborate it is has nothing to do with it.

But whether or not it is being done, is something that must be considered. I am saying I think its possible that it is a farce and use evidence that I have seen more advanced fakes to show that it is an actual possibility.

[LicketyQuickety]

Doesn't make sense to have him claim at this point; the only thing it does is tell scum proper night play. There is no reason why we would lynch him Day 1.

A CC could tell us more, don't you think?

[LicketyQuickety]

I've seen more elaborate fakes before if I am being honest.

How elaborate it is has nothing to do with it.

But whether or not it is being done, is something that must be considered. I am saying I think its possible that it is a farce and use evidence that I have seen more advanced fakes to show that it is an actual possibility.

If Rautherdir is faking, there's a high probability that they're outed down the road. It's better to leave it until later when we have more information; this isn't a universal suspect wagoned at the end of the day, it's a mostly unprovoked PR claim and that very rarely comes from scum in this setup.

Unprovoked? Naw, I don't think so.

VOTE: Nacho

[LicketyQuickety]

Unprovoked? Naw, I don't think so.

Did anyone ask him to claim PR?

Doesn't matter if anyone asked him to claim. This is a newbie game and R doesn't know what they are doing. There was very clear pressure on R and that can scare Scum and Town into premature claiming in a newbie game.

[LicketyQuickety]

There was very clear pressure on R and that can scare Scum and Town into premature claiming in a newbie game.

Find me one newbie game where scum prematurely claimed PR.

Why? This game is not based on facts.

[LicketyQuickety]

Fakeclaiming is a skill that most newbies haven't quite learned until they've played a few games, which means they're typically too conservative with fakeclaiming as opposed to too aggressive. Fakeclaiming a PR early as scum in this setup is suicidal, meaning that an experienced player wouldn't advise them to fakeclaim prematurely. Truthfully claiming prematurely as town is a pretty frequent phenomenon; you have a role, you have no idea when and if you're supposed to out it, you don't want to get lynched without claiming it.

Your argument that scum and town both out early is not a good one; scum and town deal with pressure in different ways in this particular situation. Scum typically try other tactics (lurking out pressure, AtEing, OMGUSing) before resorting to claiming their role while town who misjudges momentum tends to claim their role pretty quickly.

You are saying claiming a PR is too advanced a play to make and back that up by saying that it is "suicidal."

Town and Scum do not ALWAYS deal with pressure in different ways. What happens when you corner a Dog who is abused? The Dog could be in the right or in the wrong, it doesn't matter, it is going to attack.

And IIRC I believe you used the same logic as this at some point in the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are saying claiming a PR is too advanced a play to make and back that up by saying that it is "suicidal."

Town and Scum do not ALWAYS deal with pressure in different ways. What happens when you corner a Dog who is abused? The Dog could be in the right or in the wrong, it doesn't matter, it is going to attack.

And IIRC I believe you used the same logic as this at some point in the game.

I'm not saying that it's advanced. I'm saying that it's unlikely.

I don't mean to say that Town and Scum always deal with pressure in different ways; I mean to say that they deal with pressure in different ways wrt roleclaiming.

And I disagree. I have seen Town claim Doc as VT When they were prolly getting lynched and it nearly cost Town the game. And this was a player with some experience as well.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I disagree. I have seen Town claim Doc as VT When they were prolly getting lynched and it nearly cost Town the game. And this was a player with some experience as well.

This is completely different from the situation that we're looking at now.

Not really. Its a person claiming PR because they feel cornered.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

Mate, R didn't post at ally before you took your vote off.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

Mate, R didn't post at ally before you took your vote off.

Mate, you've been following wagons and then you do something out of character: You vote the IC as a reaction test.

When you do a reaction test, its best to tell what info you got out of it, otherwise it just looks like you are saying you did a reaction test to cover your ass.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

Mate, R didn't post at ally before you took your vote off.

Mate, you've been following wagons and then you do something out of character: You vote the IC as a reaction test.

When you do a reaction test, its best to tell what info you got out of it, otherwise it just looks like you are saying you did a reaction test to cover your ass.

You're the one promoting confusing play . I didn't get much out of it, because I pulled out too quickly.

Playing confusing is not the goal.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yes! Torbler, playing super pro-Town right now. Love it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something I've left out and hinted at a few times.

The

other

power role?

Are you claiming tracker or doctor then?

Ok I am confused here about whether Rauther has claimed and

what

he has claimed
Looking at the matrix, at this stage Mafia can have no idea which PRs town have. Even if Rauther is a Mafia roleblocker there are still 4 possible town PRs, correct? And he could not safely claim tracker as a cop or jailkeeper could call him out on that yes?

@Connor, why did you only mention tracker or doctor? Am I missing something?

He's very confident that there is another power role. Tracker and doctor are the two power roles that always also have another power role in the setup. However, other PRs (Cop and jailkeeper) could have a vanilla townie in their setup. Rautherdir seems to be more confident than that 50-50 that he's not alone.

RBers also know there are 2 PRs in the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something I've left out and hinted at a few times.

The

other

power role?

Are you claiming tracker or doctor then?

Ok I am confused here about whether Rauther has claimed and

what

he has claimed
Looking at the matrix, at this stage Mafia can have no idea which PRs town have. Even if Rauther is a Mafia roleblocker there are still 4 possible town PRs, correct? And he could not safely claim tracker as a cop or jailkeeper could call him out on that yes?

@Connor, why did you only mention tracker or doctor? Am I missing something?

He's very confident that there is another power role. Tracker and doctor are the two power roles that always also have another power role in the setup. However, other PRs (Cop and jailkeeper) could have a vanilla townie in their setup. Rautherdir seems to be more confident than that 50-50 that he's not alone.

RBers also know there are 2 PRs in the game.

Yes, but I somehow doubt Rautherdir is going to claim RBer .

If there is a RBer, there are 2 TPRs.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town would do it because it helps bring attention to someone with knowledge of the starting scenario, i.e. a power role that could be mafia or town.
Mafia wouldn't do it because it lets information about the game slip. (Namely, it would narrow down the possibilities for the starting scenario and what other power roles are out there.)

Hmmm.

The only way that LQ would have information about the starting scenario is if he was a power role or mafia; if he was a power role, I personally don't think that he'd be interested in painting a huge target on his back and hinting to the other PR (if one exists) that he is town early is silly when he can confirm himself if he has to by claiming.

Remember this post if I flip.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, it looks like I don't know how to read the setup. 1-Shot BP is also on the knows there are 2 PRs list.

Right, the only PR that R can't be is Cop. So then why were they all over me for my 6?

[LicketyQuickety]

That was a short read. Also, TheDominator37, did you just vote yourself?

And this doesn't line up at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

Posting to confirm, reading through the thread now

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

@MOD, can we get a prod on Dom?

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, it looks like I don't know how to read the setup. 1-Shot BP is also on the knows there are 2 PRs list.

Right, the only PR that R can't be is Cop. So then why were they all over me for my 6?

Jailkeeper as well

You are correct. This is why I like vanilla games the best. Set up stuff/POE based on roles is something I am horrible at, far below average actually.

Still, I know that Doc is the best thing for Mafia to claim if there are no PRs outed yet.

[LicketyQuickety]

Posting to confirm, reading through the thread now

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

@MOD, can we get a prod on Dom?

I thought Dom's play was a reaction test?

Only until they are prodded. Now, its either that they are Scum or they have lost interest in the game (or they are busy with other things). Was going to bring this up earlier and I really should have, but I wanted to see if he would've posted without me saying anything. I took the risk that he would post and he hasn't.

[LicketyQuickety]

I assumed something about Dom that turned out to not be true, as unfortunate as that is for both him and the players in the game as well as me for assuming someone was better at the game then they really were.

[LicketyQuickety]

Posting to confirm, reading through the thread now

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

@MOD, can we get a prod on Dom?

I thought Dom's play was a reaction test?

Only until they are prodded. Now, its either that they are Scum or they have lost interest in the game (or they are busy with other things). Was going to bring this up earlier and I really should have, but I wanted to see if he would've posted without me saying anything. I took the risk that he would post and he hasn't.

We'll see. He has about 17 hours left to post before he gets a real prod.

That's right, it was the weekend. Feeling kinda stupid right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Mod you're 12 hours off with those timers

No offence, but Plot is one of the most meticulous persons on this entire forum...

P-Edit: I rest my case.

[LicketyQuickety]

W

h

a

t

d

o

y

o

u

m

e

a

n

?

T

h

e

D

o

m

i

n

a

t

o

r

3

7

'

s

l

a

s

t

p

o

s

t

w

a

s

o

n

S

u

n

d

a

y

a

t

3

:

2

9

a

m

.

T

h

e

r

e

w

e

r

e

2

0

h

o

u

r

s

a

n

d

3

1

m

i

n

u

t

e

s

l

e

f

t

o

f

S

u

n

d

a

y

t

h

a

t

c

o

u

n

t

e

d

a

s

1

0

h

o

u

r

s

a

n

d

1

5

m

i

n

u

t

e

s

,

a

n

d

t

h

e

n

t

h

e

r

e

w

e

r

e

2

4

h

o

u

r

s

i

n

M

o

n

d

a

y

,

a

n

d

t

h

e

n

4

8

-

2

4

-

1

0

.

2

5

=

1

3

.

7

5

=

p

r

o

d

d

u

e

a

t

1

:

4

4

p

m

.

I

f

i

n

d

t

h

a

t

h

a

p

p

i

n

e

s

s

p

r

e

t

t

y

s

t

r

o

n

g

l

y

c

o

r

r

e

l

a

t

e

s

t

o

t

h

e

a

m

o

u

n

t

o

f

m

e

n

t

a

l

m

a

t

h

I

g

e

t

t

o

d

o

i

n

m

y

d

a

i

l

y

l

i

f

e

.

Oh I feel stupid . I'm usually good at math too, but I guess I'm too tired right now to work stuff out in my head.

I

t

'

s

o

k

a

y

t

o

d

o

u

b

l

e

c

h

e

c

k

m

y

m

a

t

h

s

;

p

l

e

a

s

e

d

o

k

e

e

p

c

a

l

l

i

n

g

m

e

o

u

t

i

f

y

o

u

t

h

i

n

k

I

'

m

g

e

t

t

i

n

g

s

o

m

e

t

h

i

n

g

w

r

o

n

g

.

I

'

m

n

o

t

i

n

f

a

l

l

i

b

l

e

.

I

t

w

a

s

a

r

e

a

s

o

n

a

b

l

e

l

i

n

e

o

f

t

h

o

u

g

h

t

b

e

c

a

u

s

e

I

h

a

d

n

'

t

e

x

p

l

a

i

n

e

d

t

h

e

a

l

g

o

r

i

t

h

m

i

n

f

u

l

l

b

e

f

o

r

e

a

n

d

I

'

m

a

l

s

o

i

n

a

d

i

f

f

e

r

e

n

t

t

i

m

e

z

o

n

e

f

r

o

m

y

o

u

w

h

i

c

h

m

a

k

e

s

t

h

e

m

a

t

h

h

a

r

d

e

r

o

n

y

o

u

r

e

n

d

.

-

-

P

I'm more of a trigonometry/reasoning guy myself. Not much meticulous about me at all.

Note the very large message I am quoting here. Sloppy people do not do that.

[LicketyQuickety]

W

h

a

t

d

o

y

o

u

m

e

a

n

?

T

h

e

D

o

m

i

n

a

t

o

r

3

7

'

s

l

a

s

t

p

o

s

t

w

a

s

o

n

S

u

n

d

a

y

a

t

3

:

2

9

a

m

.

T

h

e

r

e

w

e

r

e

2

0

h

o

u

r

s

a

n

d

3

1

m

i

n

u

t

e

s

l

e

f

t

o

f

S

u

n

d

a

y

t

h

a

t

c

o

u

n

t

e

d

a

s

1

0

h

o

u

r

s

a

n

d

1

5

m

i

n

u

t

e

s

,

a

n

d

t

h

e

n

t

h

e

r

e

w

e

r

e

2

4

h

o

u

r

s

i

n

M

o

n

d

a

y

,

a

n

d

t

h

e

n

4

8

-

2

4

-

1

0

.

2

5

=

1

3

.

7

5

=

p

r

o

d

d

u

e

a

t

1

:

4

4

p

m

.

I

f

i

n

d

t

h

a

t

h

a

p

p

i

n

e

s

s

p

r

e

t

t

y

s

t

r

o

n

g

l

y

c

o

r

r

e

l

a

t

e

s

t

o

t

h

e

a

m

o

u

n

t

o

f

m

e

n

t

a

l

m

a

t

h

I

g

e

t

t

o

d

o

i

n

m

y

d

a

i

l

y

l

i

f

e

.

Oh I feel stupid . I'm usually good at math too, but I guess I'm too tired right now to work stuff out in my head.

I

t

'

s

o

k

a

y

t

o

d

o

u

b

l

e

c

h

e

c

k

m

y

m

a

t

h

s

;

p

l

e

a

s

e

d

o

k

e

e

p

c

a

l

l

i

n

g

m

e

o

u

t

i

f

y

o

u

t

h

i

n

k

I

'

m

g

e

t

t

i

n

g

s

o

m

e

t

h

i

n

g

w

r

o

n

g

.

I

'

m

n

o

t

i

n

f

a

l

l

i

b

l

e

.

I

t

w

a

s

a

r

e

a

s

o

n

a

b

l

e

l

i

n

e

o

f

t

h

o

u

g

h

t

b

e

c

a

u

s

e

I

h

a

d

n

'

t

e

x

p

l

a

i

n

e

d

t

h

e

a

l

g

o

r

i

t

h

m

i

n

f

u

l

l

b

e

f

o

r

e

a

n

d

I

'

m

a

l

s

o

i

n

a

d

i

f

f

e

r

e

n

t

t

i

m

e

z

o

n

e

f

r

o

m

y

o

u

w

h

i

c

h

m

a

k

e

s

t

h

e

m

a

t

h

h

a

r

d

e

r

o

n

y

o

u

r

e

n

d

.

-

-

P

I'm more of a trigonometry/reasoning guy myself. Not much meticulous about me at all.

Note the very large message I am quoting here. Sloppy people do not do that.

Well, ok, I am meticulous about SOME things I guess. For example, I know that in Skyrim as soon as you can make Orcish armor you can make as much money as you want.

[LicketyQuickety]

I also didn't like Nachos reaction to when I linked the limp bizkit video. Can't explain it but he gave the vibe that he wanted to say "Wut?" but didn't He talked around it a lot. I was looking for someone to mention something about it and that is the best I got.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:
These time zones are frustrating, I miss all the good stuff when I'm sleeping.

Anyway lets talk about the set-up for a minute. Purely for the sake of clearing up the Rautherdir discussion. I've played enough Newbie games recently to have a fairly good idea of how the set-up interacts.

The first thing to note is that it is very difficult for scum to claim a role, and not get counter claimed.

A Jailkeeper claim gets counter claimed by the real JK in set-up's A and 1, counterclaimed by the cop in set-up's B and 2, and counter-claimed by the tracker in set-ups C and 3.

The same is true for a cop or tracker claim, these claims are 100% counter-claimable in every game mode.

A Doctor and 1SBP are marginally possible scum claims, the scum can gamble on a doctor claim and hope that we are in set-up 2 but that claim still has a high chance of failure due to being counter-claimed in every other set-up or a 83.3% chance of a counter claim.

Therefore it is highly unlikely that whatever Rauth is going to claim, we won't get a counter-claim, so we can safely wait until the day before we enter LYLO and then have everyone counter-claim him.

No more speculation of Rautherdir's role, and anyone's else's role in this game should be indulged in.

On a personal note I'm inclined to believe Rautherdir's soft claim, Nacho's reasoning that it makes no sense from a scummy perspective seems solid to me.

I'd say scum are in {Dom, Connor and Lovesick} but I may need to re-look. Until Dom gets replaced or comes and play's we are stalled somewhat but it's looking more and more likely his slot is scum from process of elimination.

You are missing a key detail: R will not make it to end game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Based on logic, R can be BP, Tracker or Doc.

R only dies if they are Doc. It depends on the Scum team if they want to go out on a limb and try and NK the Doc claim. Ofc there might be enough info itt to determine R's exact role if there is a RBer in the game.

I don't like the situation at all. There is too much possibility that R claiming PR will keep R in the game till end game. My spidey sense is tingling and I don't like it.

I will ISO both Nacho and R and see what happens.

P-Edit: yes, and a possibility of BP as well. Part of the reason I wanted R to claim is to eliminate WIFOM surrounding the role.

[LicketyQuickety]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

I don't agree with this.
I don't think that self-voting yourself is scummy; most things are about the intention behind them and at the end of the day scum don't really have that much reason to vote for yourself. I do think that self-votes can generate discussion; they are a thing that confuses people and when people are confused they tend to talk. Whether the content generated is meaningful is a different story but typically content is generated.

However, the reason I didn't vote for TheDominator37 is because we need that conversation to happen. A bandwagon on day 1 does almost nothing if we aren't actually talking.

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

You think Dom is the scummiest due to the self-vote, and you want to vote him. However, you're not voting him because people haven't talked enough to get a wagon going? Is that correct?

So, Nacho never comes out and says anything is actually Scummy or Townie, barring one exception: Myself.

I'll try and find the quote.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Here it is.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

Well, you made a post that looked sketchy (in particular, by pretending to have knowledge of a cop in the game) in order to generate information. That is bullshitting.

Your suggestion to have the cop investigate me was also something that I thought you were lying about because it's remarkably short-sighted; cop wants to investigate people who will be alive; if I am scum and you don't feel you can catch me on play, you can catch me by my partner's play and you can catch me by forming town blocks; wasting an investigative role on someone who scum probably needs to shoot eventually is silly.

Here it is.

I take it back. Nacho never actually calls anything Scummy and as far as I can see, the closest he comes to calling something Townie is that he said Super was playing correctly.

Nacho, why haven't you called anything Townie or Scummy?

[LicketyQuickety]

Rautherdir, I also don't know about this,

but it seems that if Nacho's logic is sound and everyone agrees with it, I was wrong about him.

At the time of your post, I agreed with your read.

Mistake. Good Scum players can come up with believable reasons for why someone is Town or Scum. I said earlier that Scum have difficulty giving reads, BUT the good players [as Scum] do not even need to come up with fake reasons for why someone is Town/Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

There was very clear pressure on R and that can scare Scum and Town into premature claiming in a newbie game.

Find me one newbie game where scum prematurely claimed PR.

Nacho seems exceedingly convinced that scum has never prematurely claimed PR in a newbie game... Being an experienced player yourself, do you think that Nacho is relying on us to not actually go looking through Newbie games to try and find examples as it would be a very tedious and time consuming process, or do you think that in this case Nacho is making a valid point, even though you may still think that overall he is scum?

Nope, that is not what Nacho is saying at all. He was trying to get me to give up the idea thinking I would when he put forth the argument that I am the one with the burden of proof in this scenario. He wanted to force me to scour through Newbie games to find an example. I didn't and won't and Nacho knows this. This is why his comment was truely sinister: because he wanted me to back something up with facts when he knows I don't roll that way.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I disagree. I have seen Town claim Doc as VT When they were prolly getting lynched and it nearly cost Town the game. And this was a player with some experience as well.

This is completely different from the situation that we're looking at now.

Not really. Its a person claiming PR because they feel cornered.

Which is a more complicated situation than you're currently making it.

Err... not its not? Its based on instinct which is pretty much as basic as it gets?

[LicketyQuickety]

AND, oh baby did you see that read I gave on Dom. That was one of the sickest Town reads I have ever given on someone.

[LicketyQuickety]

Err... not its not? Its based on instinct which is pretty much as basic as it gets?

And instinct of a player who is new to playing scum isn't to claim PR immediately.
When you first started playing, your instinct when you were overwhelmed by pressure was to disappear completely; this is a far more typical reaction than "claiming PR out of the blue". Off the top of my head, I can remember about 2 extremely premature claims (both VT claims, both town); extremely premature claims are pretty rare in the first place and the risk that the move carries for a scum player,

especially

for a PR claim, makes it that much more unlikely that it's coming from scum.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

I don't think it was "out of the blue."

I'd like to ask if you have experience playing forum mafia outside of this forum, please.