Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Nauci]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Still feeling worst about this one I think

And best about the worst

[Nauci]

so town has zero investigatives?

???

How does that follow

[Nauci]

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

1: my hollistic read of Keyser is that he's being scummy, for a number of factors

2: his claimed target could be a convenient fake claim

3: thinking about TW's fake gunsmith claims (and a real claim as a scum gunsmith ) made me extra skeptical

I don't know if there's an investigative role at all or if there's an unclaimed one and I'm kinda tired of setup spec because of the number of weird mechanics and claims currently happening; all of the wagons are on people who have claimed something or other and I don't think all of them can be true, so I pick my scummiest read ATM to be the one I doubt because we've all apparently agreed that kokichi will be sorted out end of day somehow

If he turns out to be an even night SK I'm going to have words with someone or other though

[Nauci]

@Nauci, @Varsoon

Is there any difference between a zerg and an infested terran?

The only thing would be that infested terran could shoot a gun which was part of the speculation but if there was information that the Zerg faction don't have a bullet flavor then the speculation is probably moot

[Nauci]

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

Yes, I think if Key were lying, then someone would have debunked him with a CC claim of some sort.

I still don’t understand the logic of having a bp townie in the setup, especially if it isn’t an xshot.

I thought performer claimed 1sbp

[Nauci]

In the game I modded, every scum was run up to basically -1 in the first 2 days

They

all

fake claimed and spent a lot of time coasting on their claims. NM's checks were on dead people or were "no result" supposedly even through to days where it didn't even make sense

Creature and NM lived and won as scum this way (to be fair, boon fake claimed Mason as town with scum Creature and everything went nuts)

So I'm especially skeptical of claims from a bunch of scummy slots who aren't otherwise really participating in the game

[Nauci]

TW, Irrelephant, creature, NM, and Shoshin either participated in or spectated said game. At some point through the replacement cycle, NM/tw/creature were the scum team

[Nauci]

Outside of setup reasons, how do you read performer?

I've not had time to metadive because my foster kittens got sicker and I don't feel like I have a grasp on reading him because I don't follow his trains of thought easily and I don't know if that's alignment indicative

[Nauci]

VOTE: performer

[Nauci]

I think that was -2

[Nauci]

Mew I need you to give reads instead of vague claiming

[Nauci]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Does NM have a history of not claiming?

I feel like I've seen him claim when at -1.

[Nauci]

I feel like I've seen him claim when at -1.

And was asked to claim

[Nauci]

@Keyser can you link me games where you were an active TPR?

[Nauci]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

[Nauci]

The idea of wanting to protect our potentially only investigative isn't inherently scummy, imo

I disagree with him but I can understand the perspective?

[Nauci]

Unless he's prodding at it to try and get an investigative to CC, which I thought seemed far-fetched

[Nauci]

Tbqh I'd prefer a Keyser lynch over the other 2 today because I feel his scumminess in my bones and the only thing stopping me is what happened in Watchmen Wanted when I was also scumreading him (though that was more strongly conflicted while this is a weaker but more pure scum read)

Has everyone dropped expectations of kokichi to post and are just waiting on whatever ~*~mechanic~*~ to reveal itself?

[Nauci]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

Why not wait for Key to prove or disprove his claim?

What would disprove said claim? How would you know if he's proved it?

Gunsmith is one of the easier roles to get away with faking, in my experience, so it's frequently fake claimed

[Nauci]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

Key’s N2 results are confirmable - one way or the other.

Confirming a "no gun" result could take days and we may not have that time

[Nauci]

Nancy, I beg you to stop talking about proving Key's role. Key's role doesn't prove his alignment so it's not a helpful area of discussion to sort him.

Can you link me to any games with a scum gunsmith in them?

The one I mentioned, for starters

[Nauci]

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

O_o

[Nauci]

@Performer

: Can you list your town reads and explain why?

[Nauci]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

I assume this bothers skitter even more

[Nauci]

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

O_o

So, that’s why initially knowing pretty much zilch about Starcraft, I couldn’t figure out what this could possibly mean.

So, I’m thinking maybe doppelgänger, possibly?

I can't discern what the snippet is meant to say syntax wise, nevermind within the context of SC2 lol

[Nauci]

but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.

Would protoss have bullets?

[Nauci]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

Funny that our slot has posted as much as you (3rd highest poster) and Shoshin (4th highest poster) combined and you're still "bothered" I'm not posting enough.

Aren't the vast majority of said posts from Nancy?

I specifically said A50, not AN.

[Nauci]

A lot of their posts today made sense to me. I guess that's about the extent of it. Doesn't strike me as scum being duplicitous, but town playing from the cuff.

This is my take on the slot as well, actually.

Not a ton of thought or effort (but I mean my scale is skewed towards MathDino levels of effort), but fairly understandable sentiments and a spontaneity/transparency that doesn't read as posturing or forced sentiemnts.

Town lean for me since the end of d1 but the low activity beginning of d2 had me drop to null.

[Nauci]

I am Duran.

lmao Krazy you sonofabitch

[Nauci]

AlmostNancy's likely avoided claiming their flavor because it'd scum-confirm them to me and they couldn't wriggle away with a fake-claim of flavor after I claimed against them.
Here's the problem though, now that I've outted this.
Do you think the mod would intentionally design a SECOND role that's information is of a 'not-the-real-character' flavor?
Just to fuck with us?

http://www.dramabutton.com/

[Nauci]

in this way

What way?

[Nauci]

My role was highly likely meant to serve as a means of confirming docs/BP roles present in the setup, since I learn if Zerg took a target, even if their kill failed.
It also lets me know this is very likely multiball since we've got TWO UNCLAIMED KILLS confirmed to be not from Zerg.

I have to reread the whole damned game because 3rd parties look like they're scum hunting just as much as town QQ

[Nauci]

For the record, Duran is a Xel'naga, a species separate from the 3 main factions in the game. They're more like god-tier creatures who push the other 3 around like chess pieces. So I'd be inclined to think Varsoon is 3p (probably non town killing 3p?) and that there's an evil Duran in the game. Duran is a Xel'naga species character who has disguised as various characters throughout the franchise of arguable virtue to push the narrative along.

This flavor shit is now completely bananas and I am shaking my fist at Krazy's popcorn bucket

[Nauci]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

Funny that our slot has posted as much as you (3rd highest poster) and Shoshin (4th highest poster) combined and you're still "bothered" I'm not posting enough.

Nancy you know what she meant.. :/

Okay I thought I thought I was the only one who read that as a highly questionable response

[Nauci]

If you're town here, I'll apologize in post-game and also have quite a few words with the mod about designing setups specifically made to fuck town.

No, you fucking apologize to me rn!

Because I am 100% flipping town here.

I take offense to being accused of "abusiveness" for describing AN posts as combative/etc.

[Nauci]

The other reason I'm claiming all this now is that I'm fairly sure I tilted too much anyway and was gonna catch a kill and, as the mod re-iterated, Informed players don't flip their information.

P-EDIT: I commented on that earlier, that could make sense. If that's the case, then Xtoxm and AlmostNancy as partners might make sense--didn't AlmostNancy defend there a bit? Regardless, we should flip AlmostNancy first.

Tell me what you think my fucking role is here Varsoon and how you even know what it is?

Since I have never mentioned word one about it’

I wanted to be crystal clear about what my role was, since Krazy said the part I’m informed about, will not be revealed post-flip.

Varsoon was told that scum are informed of his flavor/role's existence.

Your information seemed to be awareness of his flavor's existence.

This isn't a pure logic implication since non-scum could also have been informed of the role's existence, but it does apply that not knowing = not scum. Obviously, town wouldn't be able toknow who didn't know this.

[Nauci]

Consider my point of view.
I literally just came out of a towngame with Shoshin and Skitter where if I had just claimed my guilty instead of softed it on D2, we would have very likely won the game.

I’m not considering the pov of anyone is is mad enough to mislynch me. and apparently knows what my character is, despite me never flavour claiming it.

So, you would townread me for being selfish and not outting all that I know here?

I fucking hope I never play another game with you, in that case.

I feel like you frequently misread other players' posts and react dramatically to the quick conclusions you form from imperfect data. I don't feel like the above is an accurate characterization of Varsoon's information claim or accusation, whether intentional or not.

[Nauci]

Actually I think her consistent Presence wrt wagon pushing is far more likely to come from town!Nauci than scum!Nauci

Funny enough

I actually empathize with xtoxm's POV here

I initially wanted to protest about how the hell I'm openwolfing, but I have been pressuring everywhere because we've been so confused and it has led to multiple people claiming (obviously not from my solo efforts)

It'd probably be a legit scum strategy to out or narrow down TPR IF there wasn't scum present in the set of wagons we've been chasing down

but I genuinely believe that there are multiple scum within it and am hounding them and they are turning out to all make weird claims and I think that it's neither town clearing to have these claims nor narrowing down possible TPR because Krazy is a mad man and I have no idea what's going on mechanically any more so I'm just going to hunt based on playstyle and tone reads at this point \o/

But I thought the sentiment was actually towny from xtoxm

[Nauci]

You will see why, once I flip.

This feels like the 4th "ONCE I FLIP YOU'LL SEE WHY I'M TOWN" this game

I'm starting to hate whatever mechanics are at work

I can't even tell who's cagier at this point it's a race to the bottom

[Nauci]

1 town, the “original” and 1 scum, probably infested terran, right? and obviously, the same is true for you.

I thought this was going to be Stukov instead of Duran

[Nauci]

I think Nancy should claim.

I disagree

[Nauci]

That's true

But I thought it was a reasonable reaction to everything past performer's claim

Like, I grok the sentiment of being frustrated with how many purported tpr have claimed from his perspective

While from my perspective I've seen too many scum fake claims (NOT THAT ANYONE I KNOW IN PARTICULAR WOULD HAVE INFLUENCED ME HERE) to worry about it as much

[Nauci]

@A50: D1 you said you were hanging back because you struggle to form reads d1. Now that we have 3 flips, what's your read list?

[Nauci]

I want to chill out and talk to other human beings also though. Mafia is a nice mix between the two.

I know what you mean; find the mechanics of setups like the current newbie stuff extremely fun

[Nauci]

Who would Irrelephant want to lynch if still alive?

My ouija board said

"idk

too

many

in

poe"

[Nauci]

@AlmostNancy: My flavor is identical to a scum player who is not actually my character but an imposter. You claimed pretty much the same thing. It feels like bait to try to get me to tilt too much info because if you are that scum player, you know the longer my role stays in game, the more info town gets.

If you're town, I'm sorry.

I missed this before. This has nothing to do with MY actual flavour.

I am an informed townie

. This is all about a specific flavour that I know for sure, exists in the game and based on my role PM and what I’ve been able to deduce from reading up about it, is that there’s 2 of _____ in this game and

I know that flavour isn’t Duran

. so it’s 100% not you. There is no “D” in either of them. I just wish you had questioned me about it before you unnecessarily flavour claimed. :/

But what we now know is that there are 2 town and 2 scum versions of each and who knows how many more?

see now I'm even more curious wtf mewtaph was talking about with accusing someone of lying and whatnot

kinda want to flip that

[Nauci]

did he ever disguise himself as a zerg?

He's been disguised as an infested terran but it's all very complicated tbh

[Nauci]

Too busy to finish metadiving performer rn but it's not looking great thus far

I've never had a day 2 where I've wanted to lynch this many people

[Nauci]

He's against bussing

And he focuses very heavily on interactions/votes on him instead of commentary on the rest of the game

And the commentary is rather shallow
O
But I've not read enough of his town games to understand how alignment indicative it is

[Nauci]

I don't think it essentially means he has a guilty on someone at all?

Like for example, it's not the mechanic that's happening here, but if he's masons with someone he wouldn't want to out them? Idk.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what it could be though

[Nauci]

I don't think it essentially means he has a guilty on someone at all?

Like for example, it's not the mechanic that's happening here, but if he's masons with someone he wouldn't want to out them? Idk.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what it could be though

Oh I guess that’s possible too but why can’t he just say X is lying about their claim? That’s the part I can’t wrap my brain around.

Because he believes that X is lying about their claim to hide being a tpr so outing their identity would out a tpr

[Nauci]

With the multiball theory I would find Keyser being a scum Zerg gunsmith somehow crazy plausible

[Nauci]

I am having to much trouble trying to get into his head to make any analysis of who performer would kill

[Nauci]

I'm super frustrated with this game because I feel like the pool of suspects is extremely uncooperative about solving the game or engaging with the town who are trying really hard to solve

I was really hoping to be able to solve this game without slogging through meta and just all of the other super extra effort stuff, but on top of that, there's some crazy role madness stuff

Siiiiigh

[Nauci]

I also think that Kokichi isn't a delayed IC at all, but, rather, is a delayed informational role just like mine.
Take that as you will.

What about mewtaph?

[Nauci]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

Yeah there are multiple reasons I think Keyser is my top left pick for today, if I can get enough votes there

VOTE: Keyser Söze

[Nauci]

Somehow I'm becoming a token Lynch All Gunsmith Claims player

[Nauci]

Ya'll wanna swing absolutely the different direction and lynch Koki on the chance he's an informational role instead of an IC?

@Nauci: I'll be honest.
I haven't read a single Mewtaph post all game.

Oh

You're going to have to take this up with skitter30

[Nauci]

@Skitter: Absolutely, yes, Zerg are our enemies.
I hate the idea that this setup has both a gunsmith that gets a false positive on two town roles so far and that there may be two informed roles that can be tricked into full-claiming solely based on the soft-claim of the other.
It's far, far too much bullshit put into the setup that's negative rhetorical utility for town.
I hate it.
That's why I want that Nancy lynch
Because if it flips town at least I can feel okay that the setup is just made to pants/embarrass town.
and if it flips scum then I won and I'm the best and I can die happy.

Fwiw I don't scum read Nancy and would prefer to not go there today

[Nauci]

Xtoxm, does your view of keyser's claim change with varsoon's info

[Nauci]

So it makes sense that person would try to tilt me to soft so they could find and kill me before my info drops.

Maybe that's what mewtaph was trying to do

[Nauci]

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

It gets red checks on roles with guns

but Varsoon's info said Scum don't have bullet flavor kills so they probably don't have guns

but a scum gunsmith would be able to find tpr or 3rd parties

[Nauci]

The idea is that gunsmith would yeild a guilty on people with 'bullet' kills only, which we're spec'ing that Zerg don't use.

That's not how gunsmith works please stop ignoring me saying this.

Would you like to explain how it is wrong

[Nauci]

Keyser why aren't you even here to defend yourself :<

[Nauci]

He was on a plane at the time I think

maybe just PM about it

[Nauci]

@Shoshin: what do you think of keyser now?

[Nauci]

The wiki made it sound like Duran is a bad guy.

It's a complex character who is basically a 3p creature

he's been confederate, a confederate traitor, and even an infested terran

[Nauci]

@varsoon I think we really need you to read mewtaph

[Nauci]

I feel like I've been jerked around so much.
I lowkey hate myself for outting my info.

VOTE: Mewtaph
I really don't like any of the people up for lynch, all for different reasons.
This game is just awful to me.
I'm probably going to quit mafia after this.

Please don't!

I thought you've played very well this game; it's been fun having you around

[Nauci]

and now at least we can try to sort out the gunsmith/flavor thing out of this, and it finally helped me get a read on nancy

Yeah I found it quite helpful as well

[Nauci]

I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.

I don't think you've done really any of the above this game

There were times I could feel your frustration but you were never unreasonable or digging your heels in

[Nauci]

Varsoon I think you've contributed enormously to my reads this game; I would not have been able to read you/xtoxm/an/shoshin/possibly Keyser if it wasn't for your interactions and info

Which is why I'm seeking out your view of mewtaph

[Nauci]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

Just so you know

I'm going to have words and popcorn with you post game for throwing in a Duran, nevermind 2

[Nauci]

oh for some reason i vaguely remember you saying when you claimd that they didn't have bullet flavor; i didn't go back to check and i wasn't sure if i was remembering correctly

and hey, it's possible you could have played better, but live and let learn for next time. really don't beat yourself up over it

so if a scum faction does not have 'gun/bullet' kill flavor, the gunsmith is useless to finding them.
and since town prs have several flipped roles with gun/bullet flavor, that would indicate that keyser can get a lot of 'fake' guilties, and (if zerg don't have bullets) no guilties on the zerg

and that makes it feel like a scum role to me, zerg who can find some other gun-flavor faction + town prs
and less likely to be town

of course all of htis is based on the assumption that zerg don't have bullets which i feel is semi-reasonable? idk i know squat about flavor so i coudl well be wrong here

Although

Gunsmiths have guns

So maybe he's not Zerg

But it still feels scummy

[Nauci]

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role

I extremely empathize

I've rolled tpr a TON of times when all I want is to be a VT

The less I know the more motivated I am in a game lol

[Nauci]

FWIW I completely believe varsoon's claim because it explains why he post the way he did earlier in the game

[Nauci]

i mean if htere isn't another gunsmith it's irrelevant if he has a gun or not
(also like mafia docs don't have guns iether; just because the faction as a whole has it doesn't imply that a particular member of the faction also doesn't)

i think he's pretty likely to flip some flavor of scum but i'd feel incredibly silly actually lynching a town gunsmith today before we know whether or not zerg have bullet flavor

idk

I just mean that because Zerg are monsters I wasn't sure if it'd correlate with a gunsmith role

Also if any flavor was Gunsmith I'd have expected it to be Irrelephant's since he's literally the weaponsmith/mechanic character

[Nauci]

Wait how many votes on Keyser is that I've lost track badly and am on mobile rn

[Nauci]

This is only 4 votes on Keyser

I don't have a problem with switching back to mew if that's the consensus but I have not read up on his meta so I'm less confident about that read

P.S. Sorry NM

[Nauci]

So Keyser claimed informed gunsmith but I don't think he ever claimed his information
Which is something you would think town would claim
I just don't know why.

I think he said his info is that he knows there's a 3p anti town and it's why he was hunting for it (remember when I questioned why the hell his first reaction was to suspect creature of being 3p instead of scum? Apparently this is why)

It made me feel like he was scum informed that there's a 3p tbh

[Nauci]

It's a really fantastic game that you can literally play for free and it, for a very long time, was called the National Sport of South Korea due to its popularity there.

Too bad Heart of the Swarm killed it

Well okay maybe it was mostly League of Legends' fault

[Nauci]

I think it was mostly League's fault.
In fact, the RTS genre declined due to being flooded with sub-par games, then hitting a huge drought when console gaming became much bigger and the PC genre evolved into ASSFAGGOTS and the like.

As someone who followed PC esports since 2005 and worked in PC esports for 7 years, building the competitive community from the ground up with my

blood

red bull, sweat, and tears

I can't even express how sad I am about the evolution of the community and how much of it has become this weird gamergate crusade

I retired from the whole industry when I realized I'm sick of dealing with the misogyny

[Nauci]

Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides, for those not in the know.
People also call them MOBAs and ARTs, but those aren't great descriptors.

No one who's not an elitist asshole ever used ARTS I think

(... I'm an elitist asshole)

I once had to explain to our general consensus the history of the genre when she asked me if DotA was inspired by LoL

[Nauci]

he declined to
what i can say from memory is that it did feel like a natural progression to me (checking creature)
so the question is whether he faked it

I think they are entirely possibly a real progression

But that it fits just as much for town as for scum 3p hunting

[Nauci]

Yeah, let's go with Keyser.
Even if Koki gets good scum/third party info and doesn't IC-confirm, I think we'll be fine.

Do you view him as more scummy than mewtaph?

[Nauci]

I still think the mafia lies within Key, Mew, Xtom, Mitillos, or Performer. I don't care that much who we lynch in this group as long as it's one of these five.

There's a chance that Koki's scum but it's not something I care to worry about today. I also don't think it changes my analysis that the rest of scum lie in those five players.

Does this mean you don't believe keyser's claim?

Do you prefer to lynch there, or on someone who's not a claimed to as outright?

I'm conflicted because I scum read Keyser more but the claim makes me want to consult my townreads

[Nauci]

I wish Irrelephant were able to weigh in here because he's so much better at reading key than I am

@tw who would you choose within Shoshin's pool?

[Nauci]

Be around in maybe 20-30 minutes

[Nauci]

My roommate broke my $550 vacuum by vacuuming up a fucking pen ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

But I managed to fix it thank god

[Nauci]

Both performer scum games I read he was lynched d1 The other was a 19 page newbie

[Nauci]

you've created a situation that is very apathy inducing for anyone outside the "loltownblock". which scum have probably infiltrated anyway.

"You" as in the whole group, or specifically me?

I really dislike this characterize that having strong town reads on players who have worked hard to clearly town post is a bad situation, or that the half of the game that's not participating is somehow motivated by this.

When faced with not being town read, everyone's win condition is to change this and make more effort to be sortable as well as to sort. It shouldn't be my or anyone else's fault if someone loses motivation to come across as town but that of the poster.

Shoshin, tw, and I have all put in tons of work this game to game solve. The remaining pool of players can't all be scum, so it should be everyone's job to sort and be more sortable from there.

This post was kinda swimming around in my back of my head annoying me and I felt like I needed to address it

[Nauci]

Zerg? *confused*. Don’t you mean infested terran? I thought Zergs were monsters who couldn’t do that?

Infested terran are Zerg. The Terran units are infested by Zerg.

[Nauci]

I wish Keyser was around to interact with this game

That's what a lot of my frustrations are comprised of

[Nauci]

For the record, I don't think Varsoon made a mistake outing his information.

I actually agree with this.

I think this solidified my town reads on both of them which may not otherwise have happened

[Nauci]

WOAT

Am I out of touch?

I thought I was one of the buzzwordiest people here lol

[Nauci]

What percentage of AN posts are "HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SCUM READ ME!??!??!" type

I'd lowball 1/4

[Nauci]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

+1

And what if Key is our only investigative?

I’m not convinced Mewtaph is town. We shouldn’t rush this vote.

Then we better fucking have a jailer and tracker and watcher because that'd be weak af and heavily anti-town on top of having a 2s PGO

[Nauci]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

+1

And what if Key is our only investigative?

I’m not convinced Mewtaph is town. We shouldn’t rush this vote.

1: Krazy clarified that only roles with an explicitly stated state of having a gun/bullet flavor would turn up a result for the gunsmith and xtoxm has already retracted that post as a result

2: I don't think anyone townreads mew and we're all pretty much okay to go there too

[Nauci]

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

It gets red checks on roles with guns

but Varsoon's info said Scum don't have bullet flavor kills so they probably don't have guns

but a scum gunsmith would be able to find tpr or 3rd parties

How does scum not have guns? There were 2 kills last night, both by guns right?

I feel like we've been over this?

Varsoon's info was that there's a scum-zerg faction who by default don't have bullets. He was told that the scum-zerg faction did not attempt a ki n1.

Keyser says his info is that there's an anti town 3p

And we've had lots of speculation of alternating night multiball

Tl;Dr fuckery is at hand

[Nauci]

I don't buy town having a gunsmith when we've got two roles that'd already ping it and there's high chance scum have roles to give it 'false' clears.

But that really depends on how much the mod has designed this specifically to ruin my day.

What 2 roles “ping” it?

Creature (vig) and Irrelephant (PGO) both are town with guns

[Nauci]

Wonky shit is (iirc) that Keyser claimed Informed Town Gunsmith after there had been a lot of discussion about Gunsmith in the setup.

Key claimed “informed”? Informed about what?

Not yet - I know there is a third party who can’t win with town.

[Nauci]

The wiki made it sound like Duran is a bad guy.

It's a complex character who is basically a 3p creature

he's been confederate, a confederate traitor, and even an infested terran

Can someone please post a link? I would like to read more about it.

Has this still generally been Nancy posting, btw?

[Nauci]

NIOOT

Nauci is out of touch?

[Nauci]

im working on the idea that the 3p will be the non-bullet flavour.
and the groupscum will be bullets.
so in that sense the vig is a false positive (pgo doesnt count hes never getting a result there)
3p false negative, and hes informed of this possibility
seems reasonable

It was only a 2s pgo so if Irrelephant had survived and gotten 2 people killed already, a gunsmith check would be successful

[Nauci]

Thanks to xtoxm's prompting I actually went back and reskimmed keyser's ISO vs mewtaph

And I'm willing to think he's currently busy (apparently it's almost Christmas holy shit) and and give him 1 more day the

VOTE: mewtaph

Still struggling with performer

[Nauci]

I was town guys and girls

Why are you posting like you've been hammered

[Nauci]

Does informed town gunsmith, sound like a made up role to you? Who fake claims informed gunsmith of any alignment?

I think it's unwise to speculate that a role sounds made up when roles like Varsoon's exist

[Nauci]

Setup spew? What exactly does that mean?

Also that's some beetlejuicing if I've ever seen it

[Nauci]

@Nauci - you wont see classic-keyser this gsme unfortunately. If Mew/koki/Mit flip scum, maybe so...

Por que no?

[Nauci]

{tw}
{shoshin, nauci, skitter30}
{Varsoon, AlmostNancy}
{Xtoxm, Mitillos, Performer}
{Keyser}
{Mewtaph}
{Kokichi}

This feels really good atm. if Kokichi isn't conftown d3 he's lynched d3 always. trust me on this if I'm NK'd.

Bracket above Keyser contains 1-2 town probably but I'm a conflicted on all 3 of them for different reasons.

I'm still experiencing doubt wrt AN for reasons I can't explain (not that I don't want to; I just can't phrase my feeling)

Otherwise I'm about aligned with this

My town reads have been suspiciously in consensus this game, minus xtoxm

[Nauci]

Last time I played with scum!Perf he was like really obvscum and I had him dead nailed d1 and I'm not feeling the same intense need to powerlynch him here. I don't find him a super? easy read and he always reads fake but I'd say via content he reads more like his town self than his scum self, if slightly

his claim really obviously doesn't come from scum who killed Irrelephant imo and that entire line of reasoning was pretty jank. he could pretty easily be a wolf who isn't behind the Rel kill but also there are people I want dead more

I could probably end up compromising on Performer but it'd be a compromise at this point

I'm agreed here too

Also Mitillos's presence and clarity of thought has been entirely absent today to me

[Nauci]

Hard to make content when you don't have the right people to do it with you.

suss my read list

ignoring your position, where am I right/wrong and why?

Not going to go into this today.

As the top wagon you don't really have another chance soooooo

[Nauci]

if i had to compromise somewhere, mit would prob be my top choice. (i mean im assuming shos isnt viable)
still have no idea why everyone has a hard on for perf tho.

Does that mean you scumread shoshin and mitillos? Do you think they're scum together? What does that mean for when Shoshin tried to start a wagon on Mit?

[Nauci]

Mitillos

Why?

[Nauci]

Hard to make content when you don't have the right people to do it with you.

suss my read list

ignoring your position, where am I right/wrong and why?

Not going to go into this today.

As the top wagon you don't really have another chance soooooo

lol get me to L-1 and claim to hammer if you want my info

shit like this town pings me fairly hard

I'd give this town credit if he wasn't otherwise entirely abstaining from participating or scum hunting

[Nauci]

Please dude stop
I am exhausted with
"YOU CANT READ ME TELL ME HOW YOU COULD THINK THIS IS MY SCUMPLAY" play

I've been over this.
I had it in my head that the way you were playing was intentionally panic!baiting whoever town!Duran was so you could NK them to deny info.

No! I’m never fucking stopping. I didn’t do any such thing. A50 knows nothing about this setup, from what I can tell and you and Nauci are the apparent experts, as far as I can tell.

If you think I’m ever just going to sit back and ignore someone wrongly scumreading me, than you have been blatantly ignoring my play, in every game I’ve played with you.

So, don’t ever ask me to stop. Hell will freeze over before that would ever happen and you should fucking know me better than to ever even think of asking of me, something so ridiculous and dumb, Sorry but you asking me not defend myself here, is insulting frankly. When did you decide, that you or anyone else, gets the right to demand, I become a masochist?

I believe he's asking you to stop responding to literally every single post where anyone has ever mentioned scum reading or

possibly

scum reading or even the reasons they previously scum read you individually with a defensive response that's more or less reiterating things you've already said (e.g. that your information did not mention a Duran). Especially when the view from those posts have already evolved and changed by the time of your response.

Which is what I was facetiously referring to as well.

[Nauci]

I read AlNan about equally to Varsoon atm which is to say my read on both has increased dramatically this phase and I don't consider the stuff they're fighting over to be explicitly AI

actually I'd be slightly disappointed in the shallowness of the setup if Nancy's role could be spewed scum via flavour softing, and I don't think this is how she approaches an informed scum role like this anyway :/

No, like you already said, I’d be keeping my mouth glued shut about it, if I were scum here. I was only bugging Varsoon, because I thought he could help,me understand my informed flavour claim better, because without his and Nauci’s help, I would still know virtually nothing about it, other than it exists.

Everyone was asking me about its alignment and I had no freaking clue, so I was trying to figure it out.

Like for example, in this post, TW was saying that you are not scum because if you were scum you wouldn't be behaving the way you are

So there's no need to re-re-re-reiterate that you were getting clarification of your flavor

It's not a productive use of any of our time to be reiterating these interactions

And I feel like many of us have had the same interactions with you ad nauseum in instances like this when we'd rather be sorting others with our bandwidth

[Nauci]

Wonky shit is (iirc) that Keyser claimed Informed Town Gunsmith after there had been a lot of discussion about Gunsmith in the setup.

Key claimed “informed”? Informed about what?

Not yet - I know there is a third party who can’t win with town.

I’m really getting town pings from this. Why does scum!Key ever post this here?

Scum would absolutely want to hunt 3p

It makes it easy to look like they're genuinely hunting for scum

And just the introduction of the idea of 3p frequently throws enough chaos into discussion that it gives scum more room to breathe

[Nauci]

I don't buy town having a gunsmith when we've got two roles that'd already ping it and there's high chance scum have roles to give it 'false' clears.

But that really depends on how much the mod has designed this specifically to ruin my day.

What 2 roles “ping” it?

Creature (vig) and Irrelephant (PGO) both are town with guns

Creature was even night vig, so he couldn’t have visited Irrelephant11.

But I don’t understand how that pings it?

What's your definition of "ping"?

[Nauci]

It's not that hard to see why my tone has twisted that way. Nauci is voting me selectively because I actually bit back and said she's not thinking about the game properly. the worst is just in a never ending loop where he doesn't want to engage me so he thinks I'm scum based off of his first impression. skitter just wants me roped. Varsoon has sound advice but doesn't know the specific circumstances of my info - it's a themed game and we've already had a lot of interestingly manipulated roles at this point.

I think it's pretty clear who I want lynched today. I think it's pretty clear who I think is town.

I even posted a reads list

earlier today

that people are pretending I never made so they can continue to be insensitive to my claim space.

I'm voting you because of the 3 main wagons today I scum read performer the least and want to give Keyser room based on his iso+gunsmith claim so I scumread you the most

I think that lobbing in the vagueclaim and then mostly exiting the thread isn't towny

[Nauci]

I don't think Performer's lying about his BP claim, so why would Performer would scum claim BP here?

VOTE: Performer

You never explained this progression from defending Performer to voting him in your next post, despite being asked.

What's your reason for scoffing at the analysis that there is at least one scum among the competing wagons from d1

Seriously...?

And chose to be sarcastic instead of answering this question

It's not that hard to see why my tone has twisted that way. Nauci is voting me selectively because I actually bit back and said she's not thinking about the game properly. the worst is just in a never ending loop where he doesn't want to engage me so he thinks I'm scum based off of his first impression. skitter just wants me roped. Varsoon has sound advice but doesn't know the specific circumstances of my info - it's a themed game and we've already had a lot of interestingly manipulated roles at this point.

I think it's pretty clear who I want lynched today. I think it's pretty clear who I think is town.

I even posted a reads list

earlier today

that people are pretending I never made so they can continue to be insensitive to my claim space.

You've repeatedly accused the game of going by POE instead of actively sorting people, and it's fucking bullshit.

1: your reads list had essentially the same group of town reads as everyone else, for reasons you didn't state because you felt they had already been stated (aka, other people have already actively sorted them)

2: multiple people have attempted to engage with you

to fucking actively sort you

and were met with a lack of responses

3: the same people have questioned all of the other players we haven't sorted in an attempt to actively sort people

4: you're framing the jumping around targets as "bullshit" and just going through a POE list

instead

of engaging and actively sorting. By definition, we are not just quick lynching through our Poe list. We are bouncing between targets, pressuring and interrogating, and re-evaluating each player based on their responses and moving elsewhere if we feel it was towny. It's an absurd and bullshit accusation to levvy on the group.

5: I already made this criticism of your "POE" accusations before and thought it was a bullshit and drummed up excuse to be apathetic about the game. You even asked me why I have someone else shit for POE comments instead of you, and I said that I had just post a rant at you which you didn't read. You then didn't respond to that post pointing it out either.

6: characterizing skitter's push on you as "just wants me roped" is bullshit. She has stated why she scum reads you and wants you lynched because she scum reads you. At no point during her push on you, have you posted towny content. You've complained about her read on you and just about everyone's reads and post almost exclusively about this vague claiming crap.

7: what bite back about not thinking about the game properly? Do you mean the baseless POE accusations that I have now twice refuted? I have made it repeatedly clear that you have failed to post towny content and engage with the game and it is why you're scummy

8: the worst has tried to engage you multiple times. You ignoring all of us and saying it's our fault is scummy gaslighting at this point

9: Is it clear who you want lynched? Is it performer, who you were voting at the time of this post, immediately after commenting that you thought his claim wasn't coming from scum?

10: we're not being "insensitive to you'd claim space." We're being sensitive to your total lack of town effort and active trying to shade our town efforts

[Nauci]

I was saying that a gunsmith would get a guilty on both of them.

Yes, that’s true but that’s why we would need to take their play into account and not just the guilty, in this particular case.

The context of his point is that a town gunsmith would be negative utility due to these 2 known false positives while it would help scum find tpr

[Nauci]

town gunsmith doesn’t sound like something scum would fake

What if The Worst told you this is something he has faked as scum twice (okay he was actually a scum gunsmith one of those times)

And that gunsmith is one of the easier roles to fake claim and more useful roles for scum to have

[Nauci]

he only has about 16 posts today and none of them have done anything particularly redeeming imo.
he made another post that pinged me a bit as well. 3673

I was seriously town leaning him first half of d1 but his d2 posts have seriously deteriorated in the exact way that scum find it extremely difficult to keep up faking read progressions

Namely, he's basically provided none and has repeatedly answered questions about read updates with "I already explained my scum read it hasn't changed" which had felt completely inorganic

[Nauci]

forgot I'm not the mod nvm
Nauci lmk when you catch up on pg162

Hi

[Nauci]

About to fall asleep; gotta take the kittens in for photography in 6.5 hours

[Nauci]

I think that mew has been outright misrepping and shading half the game

And that I very much see where xtoxm's frustration is placed and even why he empathizes with mew to the point of townreading him for it

But that Mew's frustration looks more performative and like he's using the POE stuff as an excuse to not participate except when there's a major wagon on him with momentum

[Nauci]

I think that his "gotcha" moment where he tried to shade me for only ranting about Poe to someone else

And then not addressing when I pointed out that I made the same rant at him

Came from the kind of mindset where he was keenly aware of his bad fauth stance and wondered why he was getting away with it but someone else wasn't

I'm not dead sure about this scum read but I do think 3999 was very scummy

My eyelids are feeling glued together now so gn see y'all later don't hammer anybody without me being around kthxbai

[Nauci]

Which is who

[Nauci]

Kittens flooded my whole bathroom some time in the last several hours

Probably not around much today dealing with the floodpocalypse

[Nauci]

This game has made me feel like I actually suck at mafia

While the flooding in my apartment makes me feel like I'm at -999 energy level and I may not be around for EOD

T_T

[Nauci]

Shoshin, what are your current thoughts on Keyser?

[Nauci]

In general, analytical players like Mitillos (or Skitter, Nauci, etc.) tend to drop off as scum in precisely the way Mitillos has dropped off in this game. Faking that analytical style of play is quite exhausting as scum, and that's the sense I'm getting from Mitiillos.

This is precisely why my town read of him has absolutely dropped off a cliff today

He played like reundo/me/etc. enough on d1 that his d2 has screamed struggling-to-fake-it

I'm relieved you agree

[Nauci]

I think scum Performer plays more cautiously than he's played in this game

Reading the scum PTs for his 2 scum games had me feeling similarly

He's really tough to read for me and I think he may actually be low hanging fruit?

I need to go back and check who raged at us for not quick lynching him today

[Nauci]

Makes you suspicious. But I still don’t understand why this necessarily pinged you?

Varsoon and I were using "ping" here to mean "returns a 'has a gun' result."

Therefore, pgo/vig would "ping" the gunsmith check.

There was some miscommunication due to our different definitions.

[Nauci]

I was saying that a gunsmith would get a guilty on both of them.

Yes, that’s true but that’s why we would need to take their play into account and not just the guilty, in this particular case.

The context of his point is that a town gunsmith would be negative utility due to these 2 known false positives while it would help scum find tpr

Okay, I see but I think his claim is still believable. And at this point, do we still even have reason to think there’s anymore tprs with guns - now that both of them are dead?

If not, that role would no longer be a negative utility and we know if real, he couldn’t have gotten any results prior to the NKs. However, the inclusion of the word “informed” in the claim, is what makes me think it isn’t fake.

Negative utility is within the design of the game and does not take into account whether or not the false positive resulting players are still alive or not

Also

Roles =/= alignment

And the information he received could easily have been information scum would receive

[Nauci]

he only has about 16 posts today and none of them have done anything particularly redeeming imo.
he made another post that pinged me a bit as well. 3673

I was seriously town leaning him first half of d1 but his d2 posts have seriously deteriorated in the exact way that scum find it extremely difficult to keep up faking read progressions

Namely, he's basically provided none and has repeatedly answered questions about read updates with "I already explained my scum read it hasn't changed" which had felt completely inorganic

Did it possibly occur to anyone else that he has a possible TMI? I could be wrong about this but I think he had a post about 3 unclaimed Prs? At first, I thought he might be some kind of investigative but if he does actually have info on not 1 but 3 tprs, that is highly unlikely on D2.

Not sure what you're referring to

[Nauci]

I plan to (and I usually do) but I'm currently on mobile between cleaning sessions for the floodpocalypse T_T

Also wrt the mitillos post

I remember noting it but I'm not sure if I scum read it

Reundo did pretty much the exact same thing at the beginning of watchmen wanted and I thought it contributed towards my town read of him, because he was anticipating being scum read for something he always does as town. I've done this kind of thing myself (I frequently got scum read for thinking about when something I did could look scummy to other people as part of my reads process).

It's only within the bigger picture of his game solving and analysis that he demonstrated clear capability of on d1 that his d2 screams scum to me.

It's bizarre that someone capable of making such clear analysis would sit back on d2 and just say "but the hammer was scummy yo" and repeatedly declare that nothing has really happened this day when SO MUCH has happened

But it's exactly how I've felt when I procrastinated on participating as scum because faking analysis is HARD

I'll need to read scum xtoxm games to give an idea of my read there; thank you for the heads up though

[Nauci]

has a perfect record of reading me

To be fair this is easy when you've just rolled town so much

[Nauci]

im not sure that angrytoxm has ever been scum. theres a possibility im wrong on that but i dont recall any. but you push it as a reason to scumread me in 4080.

I never said anything about "anger"? I was referring to unnatural emotions, not "anger" in specific.

I've personally found his reactions realistic. I don't share some of them but I've grokked where he could be coming from. It's why I town read him.

[Nauci]

Just telling me numbers don’t help, I need actual links.

Why?

[Nauci]

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Xtom, I just had to get my thoughts out before the day ended. I would really hate to lose this game to scum Xtom.

If I'm still around on later days don't worry I don't get complacent about my reads

[Nauci]

because of the way I’ve configured the settings, sometimes the numbers show up differently for me.

Wait how does that work

Wouldn't that beak the [post] tag?

[Nauci]

#4080 is so full of misreps and twisting of facts its comical. you guys will have to take the blinkers off at some point. just because she has 1 game of scum ever in her meta and played badly in it doesnt mean you should locktown and never reevaluate if she isnt obvious floundering scum. people improve a lot after being scum the first time.

Can you point out some of the misreps?

[Nauci]

Can we talk about how awful it is that Keyser isn't voting rn

[Nauci]

Skitter we're finally going to be able to Lynch mewtaph. Ut you're v/la qq

[Nauci]

yknow looking at point 1 i do have to kinda admit most of it. my reason for voting her at the start was kind of shit. but i thought we already hashed this out? and now its being brought back up out of context.
i don't appecriate the notion that ive been trying to pocket varsoon. i would rather just go for a n1 nk on someone who knows me well than try to build a pocket, but i do see why people could be suspicious of the possibility.

Does this mean you only took issue with the portions talking about you?

[Nauci]

That makes me feel better

I was agreeing with the post through the mitillos part and thought the bit on you was less solid, but could see where she was coming from

I view it as similar to when I cased Skitter, but with more conviction

I can understand the viewpoint that you were scummy this game, especially on d1, and I can definitely understand scum reading you for saying I was open wolfing (as well as your reasons for having said that)

[Nauci]

VOTE: Mitillos
I agree.

You prefer this over mew?

[Nauci]

I think mitillos is best left for tomorrow if we're not busy insta lynching kokichi, maybe

[Nauci]

Like even with a scum read on the slot I'd be against getting yet another claim from anyone today

[Nauci]

Shiiiiiiiit

[Nauci]

Welp

I think he is scum so let's see that red flip

[Nauci]

TW you best not be dead tomorrow

I would be so sads

[Nauci]

Nauci why would I lie, I would just be giving free reaction town pings at this point.

Oops I didn't see that post

[Nauci]

Kokichi claimed Nova, right?

I forgot that her other main special ability is creating an illusion/clone of herself

But Nancy said the thing was probably more like Terran/infested terran

[Nauci]

Or was that mew

Hard to track everything

[Nauci]

modifier cop

A wot

Also does this further implicate Keyser

If everyone was so strung up about the number of possible town investigatives

[Nauci]

Kokichi claimed Nova, right?

I forgot that her other main special ability is creating an illusion/clone of herself

But Nancy said the thing was probably more like Terran/infested terran

He claimed Jim Raynor.

I claimed Nova.

Ah

Gotcha

[Nauci]

Mew did you have any reasoning or info for your performer reads

[Nauci]

SADNESS

[Nauci]

Krazy if I lose my win streak it's your fault and I hate you okay not really

but actually yes really

[Nauci]

Why Skitter over Varsoon?

Why Varsoon over a claimed gunsmith?

[Nauci]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

[Nauci]

Non-Normal Roles that CAN be in this game include:
Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Bus Driver,

Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector

, Framer, Vanillaizer, Arsonist, Godfather

straight up, yeah

I regret signing up

[Nauci]

So, it now looks like Irrelephant11 was likely SK kill

You know which players in this game would 100% shoot Irrelephant11 N1, especially if they had bp or something?

Keyser ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[Nauci]

Why Skitter over Varsoon?

Why Varsoon over a claimed gunsmith?

Because he claimed to have info. about Zergs. But yeah, I forgot about Key.

Any of the claimed, makes way more sense than Skitter.

Not until he survived to day 4

[Nauci]

Non-Normal Roles that CAN be in this game include:
Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Bus Driver,

Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector

, Framer, Vanillaizer, Arsonist, Godfather

straight up, yeah

I regret signing up

I don’t see any evidence for a lightening rod but a bus driver? Possibly?

I didn't realize these were the parameters

I am absolutely policy opposed to being in any game with lightning rods

I'm not over my previous terrible experience

[Nauci]

I guess I need to spill the beans here

But not until after I've moved my laundry

Shoutouts to perfume bottles shattering onto my bed for this delay

[Nauci]

There's a witch in this game

There's no mafiawiki article for it, but this is the description on Mafia universe

Role Description:

The Witch is an independently aligned player who can target and control another player every night. The target will be notified that they are being controlled. The Witch's action will only work on roles that have abilities that target other people at night, and the action controlled by the Witch cannot be roleblocked. Furthermore, the Witch will be viewed as town-aligned if investigated. The Witch is allowed to make players self-target or even target the Witch. The Witch wins the game by surviving to see the town lose the game.

But I've been informed that the witch role in this game is, in multiple ways, different from that one. One difference is that it does not prevent role blocking of the redirected action. I do not know the other differences.

I was role blocked both N1 and N2, but only witched on N2.

The witch knows what my night action is, which is why I'm confessing that I have one, but I do not intend to claim it (yet).

Be sure to note: town does not need to kill the witch to win, because it is a non-killing role if there are no killing roles it can redirect (but it might count as a town killing role if, say, there is a town vig it could still redirect?

@Krazy can you confirm or deny this?

). But it can only win by being alive when town otherwise loses.

I'm pretty mad that this game has a high chance of ruining my 12-2 record because it seems preeeeetty difficult of a setup for town to win.

With a non-gun-flavor zerg/mafia faction, and

at least

1 town vig, and a pgo, I basically refuse to believe town was given a Gunsmith because it would be stacking the deck further against town essentially...

In combination with the night kills and Keyser's play, I am extremely, extremely suspicious of him.

[Nauci]

If it was a redirect that killed creature, it would still have to be an intentional kill, because unless this witch is different, the role gets to find out what the night action they are redirecting is.

I believe that there are 2 roles left with a gun flavor kill ability, and a scum role blocker.

[Nauci]

Targeting the same person on consecutive nights with roleblock is permitted in the game, unless there are other restrictions involved.

[Nauci]

If it was a redirect that killed creature, it would still have to be an intentional kill, because unless this witch is different, the role gets to find out what the night action they are redirecting is.

I believe that there are 2 roles left with a gun flavor kill ability, and a scum role blocker.

Why are you so certain. that there’s a witch in this game? Because you were RB’d twice?

Because the witch role differs from redirector in 2 primary ways: witches are informed of what night action they get to redirect is, and the player being redirected are informed that they have been witched/redirected (but not where to). It's unclear if the first part applies here, but I was informed that I was witched, and that it does not prevent the night action from being roleblocked.

N1 I was roleblocked, and N2 I was both witched and roleblocked.

[Nauci]

Did kokichi already flavor claim?

[Nauci]

I have no idea if a witch could bypass restrictions like even-night and cause creature to shoot Irrelephant11 N1

If not, then I wonder who was witched N1 who has not informed the thread that this happened

[Nauci]

yeah he said

he's the main character

or something

Meaning what, exactly? Who would that be?

i can't remember and can't find it rn

Oh right he claimed Jim Raynor

[Nauci]

TW, would you agree that the Witch wouldn't explain the Creature NK, unless the witch specifically wanted to kill Creature?

I guess the witch would be actively trying to help a scum faction but wouldn't know who they are

I'm not sure if mass claiming is the worst idea at this point; scummiest players first though

Oh, side note:

I was not explicitly told I was roleblocked. I was explicitly told that witching does not prevent roleblocks

[Nauci]

Witch=Survivor

Witch =/= survivor

The witch only wins if it survives

and town lost

. Plus it has a redirect ability that the redirected player is informed was used. It is an explicitly anti-town role without direct killing power. It said it'd also appear as town to cops but I'm not sure if that applies in Krazy's version. It's a very complex role.

[Nauci]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

...........which is why zerg would fakeclaim gunsmith
VOTE: Keyser

@Kokichi, you are still fullclaiming in your next post.

Can you unvote guys, we resolve Koki first.

No

[Nauci]

i agree with that; it feels like they probably T/S-PR read creature and sent him on a kamikaze night action.
the Rel kill was probably sheer good luck?

Do you think witching would bypass the even-night restriction?

I've asked Krazy and am waiting for a response. I'm not optimistic that he'd actually tell me, of course.

[Nauci]

My proposed mass-claim order,

if

we actually mass-claim.

Keyser + Performer technically, since they already claimed?

Kokichi
Mitillos

Any counter claims

Maybe xtoxm
Then whomever else is left in whatever order

[Nauci]

Witch=Survivor

Witch =/= survivor

The witch only wins if it survives

and town lost

. Plus

it has a redirect ability that the redirected player is informed was used

. It is an explicitly anti-town role without direct killing power. It said it'd also appear as town to cops but I'm not sure if that applies in Krazy's version. It's a very complex role.

So, either one or both of your roleblocks could have been redirected by the witch to you?

No

The witch could not have directed a roleblock onto me; the witch redirected my night action onto <target unknown>

My night action failed due to a separate cause

I really didn't fucking want to claim anything :/ :/ :/

Almost as much as I wanted to finally play a game as vanilla town

Skitter I'm so jealous

[Nauci]

IMO,

if there is a town vigilante still in this game and you were witched, you need to claim.

[Nauci]

so nauci has a power role of some kind

on night one, she targeted someone but it didn't work. => she was roleblocked. she was not witched.
on night two, she targeted someone but it didn't work. she was also informed she was witched. => she was roleblocked and witched.

the witch targeting someone does two things:-
1. changes the witch's target's target, i.e. Nauci.
2. informs the witch's target that they were controlled by the witch.

because someone roleblocked Nauci (stopped her from moving that night) on night two, nauci couldn't have a target at all so (1) above didn't happen. only (2) did, because the WITCH'S ability went through. it's just that NAUCI'S didn't.

So, did the roleblock actually protect her from the anti-town witch? Because that would then be a good thing? Like, could the roleblock, could have possibly protected Nauci and prevented a 2nd kill or am I way offbase again?

No

It prevented my night action from succeeding on whatever target the witch chose

It is unclear to me if there are any secondary events to witching; I know that the witch both gets to find out my night action and redirect me, but I don't know if the witch would be able to overcome action restrictions (e.g. even-night or loyal, or learn investigative results, or whatever else).

I'm fairly confident that one of the 2 Durans is the witch because Xel'Naga would be a 3rd party mind controlling role

Which means I'm less confident about Varsoon's alignment because he said that his evil twin is Zerg/scum while he claimed to be town even though The-Xel'Naga-Formerly-Known-As-Duran was definitely a 3rd party character playing various roles

[Nauci]

I was not informed of why my night actions failed. It could have been due to being roleblocked; it could have been due to other factors (like if my target was a commuter or something).

The witch successfully redirected my night action to a different target and learned what my night action is, but the action failed.

[Nauci]

HEY KEYSER, WHO DID YOU CHECK LAST NIGHT AND WHAT WAS YOUR RESULT?

[Nauci]

Hello, everyone.

VOTE: Kokichi

First he's an IC, then he's a D2 IC, then he's an N2 IC, then he's an N2 IC who might not show up immediately on N2, then he's still not confirmed on D3. This shit ends here.

This. No more shit.

I view Kokis play as selfish and self-preserving (something I wouldn’t associate with TOWN)

[Nauci]

UNVOTE:

I will, however, unvote until we have a better picture of what the fuck is happening here

[Nauci]

As of right now, my list goes:

Me
Shoshin, TW

Varsoon

AN
Xtoxm
Performer

Mitillos
Kokichi
Keyser

I'm forming paranoid theories I'll hold to myself until the rest of the game catch up

[Nauci]

AN, can you link me to the games you were referring to, with the crazy mechanics?

[Nauci]

Did Varsoon claim town? Or neglect to mention, or say something about being a pro-town or anti-scum 3p or something

[Nauci]

I wouldn't be surprised at all at this point lol

[Nauci]

Just when I had my sleep schedule almost normalized

These twists and turns have ruined me

[Nauci]

I got witched again

Also

Nobody fucking lay down a single damn vote until we are completely finalized on a lynch today

I vote Keyser in spirit

[Nauci]

I'm pretty sure there's enough anti town left that a single wrong vote could be hammered, even if it's multiball

And I'm pretty fucking sick of that shit

[Nauci]

asdfghjkl;' i was hoping you were gambiting to get scum to out themselvs

My night action didn't fail though

[Nauci]

Yesterday ended before I could relay my answers from Krazy >:C

I was told that the version of witch he is using doesn't necessarily learn what my night action is when redirecting me, and might not learn what the result of my action is either

Buuuuuut

That it could potentially ignore restrictions

So it is possible that they directed creature onto Irrelephant, not knowing what creature even did, just trying to get him shot by the pgo, and got incredibly lucky that creature was a vig

[Nauci]

Here's a placeholder:

VOTE: the worst

Give me your role, flavour, amd list of targets por favor.

@Shoshin: What's your role again? And what result(s) did you get?

For the love of God and all that is holy

Please unvote

[Nauci]

I don't think mass claiming is optimal when we know who we're lynching.

I prefer to keep my role to myself as it's more useful that way, though I highly suggest that if anyone watched/tracked anyone visiting me last night, out the result today because it's likely scum.

Actually, it seems pretty likely that you were Xtoxm's target last night

[Nauci]

Btw, TW, I didn't see what information you have that made you think kokichi is scum?

I assume that mew found out that kokichi had the macho modifier