Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Briar]

Hi everyone!

I want to go to the Keep if everyone's cool with that.

[Briar]

Okay, everyone cool with it? Cool.

VOTE: Keep

Let's get this.

[Briar]

You're my idol, Unwnd. I wanted to be just like you growing up.

[Briar]

Also I like, am feeling really good about posting/playing in general after a few weeks where the thought of it was kind of a chore but now that I have the energy this is without a doubt the best choice for me as a person.

[Briar]

Okay, everyone cool with it? Cool.

VOTE: Keep

Let's get this.

Not particularly cool with it.

Why not?

[Briar]

Like uh.

I don't know I feel egotistical saying this but when I'm town it's really obvious and I don't have any fears of living up to that so, /shrug.

[Briar]

No, you should feel VERY comfortable with it.

Spoiler:

Maybe if I typed in lowercase it'd seem cuter. :>

[Briar]

Meh, I think I'm pretty easy to read even if I'm on an alt right now, so that shouldn't be an issue. I don't think I have any familiarity with you as a player or vice versa but like, trust me when I say if I was scum you'd have already figured it out LMAO.

[Briar]

That being said I don't think meta like, does as much when I can just show everyone.

[Briar]

Unwnd please love me.

[Briar]

Unwnd if you don't love me I'm going to give my love to Anastasia instead. She supports me.

[Briar]

Oh, I see. It's okay, take your time, your heart will get there.

I'll wait for you. <3

[Briar]

I think the point is more that it's probably objectively the Worst to send the hard to reads to the Keep because if they're all like, in that place where scum end up a lot of null-town/townleany it's a fucking headache to deal with.

[Briar]

Briar I think Unwnd has given us the cold shoulder because his heart may not be pure

this is tragic and I'm starting to cry a little inside.

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

Assuming this is why you're thinking that? Explain please.

[Briar]

Anastasia gets how I act on a spiritual level and I love her for that.

[Briar]

(I can tone it down if it really is too much but this just who I am.)

[Briar]

I think the point is more that it's probably objectively the Worst to send the hard to reads to the Keep because if they're all like, in that place where scum end up a lot of null-town/townleany it's a fucking headache to deal with.

Well if you become as blazingly townie as you promise, then it would make sense to send the scummy/nully people to the keep with you right?

Yeah, I'm definitely fine with it LMAO.

I think? The issue Absinthe presented was more like a theoretical where I /don't/ do that and then other people pull the trigger and end up the same way and we all sit there twiddling our thumbs in a lukewarm duel to be just a little townier.

[Briar]

Mm.

I would feel a little bad genuinely if it was because unwnd was overwhelmed by how like, I guess, weird I am acting towards him as a 'stranger'. Did you feel like his posting had that quality before or after I arrived in thread?

[Briar]

Oh, uh, I guess I can tone it down a little bit? I get that it's like, a Lot to deal with suddenly but this won't be the bulk of my game. I'm just vibing until I get something really good to latch down on.

[Briar]

These cross-currents are rapidly becoming not my cuppa tea.

Feeling a little bit guilty about maybe contributing to this, what aren't you liking?

[Briar]

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it. It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

[Briar]

Hey Luke, what's your experience with mafia?

[Briar]

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

The latter really, I just like you as a player and we've only ever had positive/fun times together that I can recall, so it was fun to post those sort of things jokingly at you. But you're not like, as much to reciprocate that same energy in general.

[Briar]

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

The latter really, I just like you as a player and we've only ever had positive/fun times together that I can recall, so it was fun to post those sort of things jokingly at you. But you're not like, as much to reciprocate that same energy in general.

I should explain more: I've seen you rather recently not like the like, extent a social aspect has taken root of a game, so I came into it knowing that you wouldn't most likely post back in the same vein as I was but it wasn't a big deal to me that you wouldn't, if that makes sense?

[Briar]

And I know I said I would try to tone it down some but this is sort of just my personality and the lens I view this game through, I guess you could say character but that's not quite right, and trying not to be this sort of person just ends up hamstringing my ability to play. Which uh, sucks if people think it's detrimental but meh, what can I do.

[Briar]

Hey Luke, what's your experience with mafia?

I have completed 2 games on this site (and I am in another).

Before that, I played several games in this mafia discord group that was full of people I knew IRL

And before that, I played a lot of One Night Ultimate Werewolf. Like I would guess at least 100 games, if not more.

But that means most of my experience is with playing with people that I know IRL, and people that I know well. So I felt like I was really good at reading people in those games, but so far on here...

Oh so you've like, played a lot. Huh.

If you're this unconfident I think I want to keep you out of the Gate-group, yeah. If you're town you'd most likely get slapped on the IC role and would be a lot of pressure, and if you're scum I feel like you'd be nervous enough where... it'd be good to be in the Wall group or something where it's just traditional mafia and the two town have to find each other to pick you out as the odd one.

I guess that you could be in any group as scum and it'd just shave off a person that we have to worry about, but really if you're town I think I'd rather have someone more experienced with the players (sorry if I'm like, assuming too little of your play right now) be there to guide us.

What do you think so far like, in general, of the people/what's been said? Do you have a preference between the other two, if you're doubting going to the Gate?

[Briar]

Some recent games I have indeed been a bit of a prick. It wasn't intentional on my part but I get really tilted by some things. One of them is how I want the game to played, which usually contrasts with how it's played. My understanding of You/Ana right now is that you're social players and feed off the energy of the room, while not getting caught up in details. I think that behavior is the most easily faked and something that is harder to read because of it.

I wouldn't describe you as a prick in any of those games, because if that were the case I wouldn't be as friendly with you probably for fear of exacerbating any toxicity in this game. You're a very fun player to be around, Unwnd!!

That being said, I do get why it can be a headache to deal with this which uh, I've been thinking about a lot recently and have teetered back and forth between how I should act versus what is fun so maybe in the near future or even this game I'll try to be a bit more "logical" while still having my fun so that it's a bit easier for everyone else to parse. It's just harder for me at times to verbalize what's basically a gutread off of how someone feels or rather, the way they're sounding portraying that, when it's rooted in how people are getting along with each other a bit beyond just hard solving.

So yeah!

[Briar]

And I know I said I would try to tone it down some but this is sort of just my personality and the lens I view this game through, I guess you could say character but that's not quite right, and trying not to be this sort of person just ends up hamstringing my ability to play. Which uh, sucks if people think it's detrimental but meh, what can I do.

I think the way you play is perfectly fine and if anyone thinks its inappropriate or rises to the level of cheating they can make their complaints privately to the moderation staff.

Pfft, despite my last post about my angst over my playstyle, thank you, truly. <3 I appreciate it.

[Briar]

I may have exaggerated my anti-confidence for comedic effect. It is more like, I am becoming aware that my experience, primarily in ONUW, which is played face-to-face with friends and family, does not translate 1 to 1 to playing here.


Also, I have reconsidered, I don't think I should be in the Gate. Before the game started, I was only thinking about them individually, and not thinking about the fact that the IC would be important for the other areas as well.

So I think my preference now would be keep>wall>gate

Ohh, the classic self-deprecation. I get that.

What makes you want to go to the Keep? I have few guesses but I wanna hear what's on your mind about that one. :>

Also, is it influenced at all by you having a read on me, since I'm at the Keep?

[Briar]

Okay, everyone cool with it? Cool.

VOTE: Keep

Let's get this.

WHY

I'm town!

[Briar]

FWIW, I don't think that unwnd is like... annoyed, with the difference in styles and I don't get /that/ sort of feeling from him.

[Briar]

In general I think he has a dry sort of way in how he posts/presents himself comparatively to some people but I don't actually get the feeling that he's frustrated over what's happening so much as like... trying to get it since it doesn't make a lot of sense to him? That matches up with how I known unwnd as a player and when he's been around situations where people are basing things in social cues/reads versus gamestate, etc.

[Briar]

In general I think he has a dry sort of way in how he posts/presents himself comparatively to some people but I don't actually get the feeling that he's frustrated over what's happening so much as like... trying to get it since it doesn't make a lot of sense to him? That matches up with how I known unwnd as a player and when he's been around situations where people are basing things in social cues/reads versus gamestate, etc.

Though the caveat is that in recent memory I do remember him sort of flippantly going "meh, I'm not here for this sort of thing/don't like it" as previously mentioned so I don't know if I should be reading more into him trying to understand it all, like he's putting in more work here over it.

[Briar]

Okay, everyone cool with it? Cool.

VOTE: Keep

Let's get this.

WHY

I'm town!

Do you assume you're going to be townread enough to be voted there? I don't understand the mindset.

Yes LMAO.

What do you make of that?

[Briar]

Yes LMAO.

What do you make of that?

oh no now I have an alt guess for you that I'm not happy about

Why ever not, S_S?

[Briar]

In general I think he has a dry sort of way in how he posts/presents himself comparatively to some people but I don't actually get the feeling that he's frustrated over what's happening so much as like... trying to get it since it doesn't make a lot of sense to him? That matches up with how I known unwnd as a player and when he's been around situations where people are basing things in social cues/reads versus gamestate, etc.

Though the caveat is that in recent memory I do remember him sort of flippantly going "meh, I'm not here for this sort of thing/don't like it" as previously mentioned so I don't know if I should be reading more into him trying to understand it all, like he's putting in more work here over it.

This is shockingly astute and I slightly fear you now

No please come back to me, I promise, I am a non-threatening anime-girl poster.

[Briar]

I may have exaggerated my anti-confidence for comedic effect. It is more like, I am becoming aware that my experience, primarily in ONUW, which is played face-to-face with friends and family, does not translate 1 to 1 to playing here.


Also, I have reconsidered, I don't think I should be in the Gate. Before the game started, I was only thinking about them individually, and not thinking about the fact that the IC would be important for the other areas as well.

So I think my preference now would be keep>wall>gate

Ohh, the classic self-deprecation. I get that.

What makes you want to go to the Keep? I have few guesses but I wanna hear what's on your mind about that one. :>

Also, is it influenced at all by you having a read on me, since I'm at the Keep?

For me, in the Keep, there are two win conditions for me.
I correctly read the other two players, find the scum, and vote the other town player
Or, alternatively, I could be the one voted for

In the Castle, there is only 1 win condition. I have to correctly identify the scum, if I fail, town loses that minigame.

In the Gate, then I think they will make me the IC (especially after the posts I have made ) So the win condition is the same as the castle, but now I would become an important voice for the other minigames as well. Not sure I want that responsibility.

Spoiler:

No, I did not remember who had put themselves into the keep, so that wasn't part of my reasoning

Hm hm hm.

I think that I'd be fine with you being in the Keep, honestly it might be best for us if you are IMO? Like, the worst case is that you are scum and I don't think you could keep up with the other two town players, or if you are town but not towny enough you don't seem like... prideful enough to where you have to be the one voted, etc etc. I'm down with that (but you should probably hold off a tiny bit to see if other people agree with this and not follow in my footsteps of insta-voting).

[Briar]

Why do you think that? Why would you not wait to see if other people are okay with it?

Why should I care about what other people think in the moment? Like, if people don't think that I'm towny enough there are two other slots that they can assign to other people and vote them instead, and I'll vote whoever I think is town of those two if no one wants me. I'm just hamstringing myself if I'm scum by putting the pressure on myself to compete with them but that isn't the case this game, so /shrug. It's a bit shitty of me to not care if other people agree

now

but they will in time.

[Briar]

I am a chad player who bows to no one this game.

[Briar]

Infinity what's on your mind!!

[Briar]

I really am sorry if the early vibing stuff was a pain. :<

[Briar]

Infinity what's on your mind!!

I think I've given most of my relevant thoughts so far, although they've been out of sync with the game because I've been posting in between board game turns. I do get some townvibes from lukewarm and some non-townvibes from catboi ig

What's your read on absinthe?

Hit me with the catboi vibes? I found his questioning towards me a bit... questionable, heh. But the way it was tinted in that moment didn't feel like it matched up with the tools that the town has to deal with the groups (aka it seemed like he didn't like it but if he doesn't there are other options and I'm already supporting one he likes).

I'm gonna be honest and say that uh, I wanna rain check this one because I feel like I've annoyed absinthe and that sort of thing makes it a little more difficult for me to interact/read someone because that colors my thoughts, and I'd rather read over their slot when I'm not gonna feel a bit bad for making it less enjoyable for them?

[Briar]

Anastasia is SO familiar, I just can't quite place it.

[Briar]

Oh, yikes.

Okay then, let's really nail the Gate group to get the best IC and leave their group for last, I think, to vote in? Have the IC's thoughts as long as possible.

(My brain is a bit too weak currently to dig into the interactions going on.)

[Briar]

Oh, yikes.

Okay then, let's really nail the Gate group to get the best IC and leave their group for last, I think, to vote in? Have the IC's thoughts as long as possible.

(My brain is a bit too weak currently to dig into the interactions going on.)

(By the last part it means that I am unsure about Ana because I liked her early-game but those feelings have uh... started fading pretty fast but I don't know if I'm being overly-paranoid because I think she /sounds/ good but the things she saying don't... feel good, in an agenda sense, and trying to make sense of that right now is a lot of work and I don't wanna comb over her posts because she's going to be the key to solving absinthe I think too, for me, through these interactions.)

[Briar]

Oh, yikes.

Okay then, let's really nail the Gate group to get the best IC and leave their group for last, I think, to vote in? Have the IC's thoughts as long as possible.

(My brain is a bit too weak currently to dig into the interactions going on.)

(By the last part it means that I am unsure about Ana because I liked her early-game but those feelings have uh... started fading pretty fast but I don't know if I'm being overly-paranoid because I think she /sounds/ good but the things she saying don't... feel good, in an agenda sense, and trying to make sense of that right now is a lot of work and I don't wanna comb over her posts because she's going to be the key to solving absinthe I think too, for me, through these interactions.)

(Oh whatever, I think a big root of my worry right now is that there's uhhh, an insistence from Ana that she did not think absinthe was scum, that she was not against him being the group, she did not think XYZ, but in reality the things she was saying to absinthe through that interaction, and the way that she spoke to unwnd, felt more like the issue was that we shouldn't trust absinthe inherently and even though she was saying what her stances were some of her posting feels like she wants everyone to doubt absinthe even if she says she's not doing it?)

(p-edit: And there's a bit of me that wonders if Ana's bit off a bit much for her to chew if she is scum and is trying to placate absinthe who was not having it if that is the case?? I don't know because there were moments where her frustration (at like, S_S) sounded like a frustrated townie to me rather than scum. That and the Dunnstral thing which like, weak logically, made sense to me in full. If that makes sense, lmao.)

[Briar]

Thinking a bit, in a perfect world I think my groups right now would look like this:

Gate: Absinthe/Anastasia/Catboi
Wall: Unwnd/Dunnstral/Something_Smart
Keep: Briar/Lukewarm/Infinity

I think Unwnd/Infinity are interchangeable for the last two, but the Gate group would resolve a few of my reads? Like, confirming whether or not absinthe/Ana is T/T or T/S (because if it's S/S What The Fuck) would be important to me, and also it'd be nice if that was the case because I haven't gotten anything really Good from catboi yet and seeing whether or not he was confirmed would be cool. (This is also the assumption that the mafia would make the conversation between the former keep on going to the death? I think? Like there's already some uh, doubts between absinthe/Ana that they've vocalized so duh mafia preys on that.) This is the group with maximum WIFOM fuckery though so I worry that I'd get snowed pretty fast were mafia to divert from this but I'm gonna assume they'd play it sort of straightforward despite me talking about all this stuff out loud.

For the wall group, that's honestly the group where I'm like... could be any alignment, and I wouldn't be too surprised? I lean town on unwnd, actually, I townread unwnd now that I think about it a little bit just from how he's been playing even if I was questioning the 'why' he was trying to be so... diplomatic? I guess? It doesn't feel slimy like he's trying to placate people so much as just... figure shit out, so far. Which is nice. The latter two I have less experience with and in general don't find easy reads, so resolving that is a bit out of my paygrade. I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct, it's a little... IDK. I guess my expectation was that he'd engage me even if my reply to him was very silly, because if it's something he was worrying about a bit he'd attempt to resolve it somehow.

And the last group, I Am Town, Luke has felt good so far and I do think that like, while he's not new to the site, the format itself is something he's still adjusting to and trying to keep up as mafia while in a group playing the Townie Pageant Game would probably be hell for him. If he's town he feels like he's the safest vote for us to pick and if he's scum he'll probably slip or something and we just vote either myself or Infinity if she's in here with us, and it's easy from there on.

As for order of who we let stay first, I think that (in the little world I am creating here) I'd let Wall > Keep > Gate do their votes? Actually, uh, probably Keep first now that I am thinking about it because if we're all voting for townreads and this is somehow the group that gets messed up and votes mafia, it'd be important to reset assuming we'd placed at that point a decent amount of trust into their reads. The IC should stick around as long as needed to dictate everything obviously, but now that I'm working through it I am very much into the Keep going first unless we all collectively agree one person is /disgustingly/ townie (sidenote: hey I'm the disgustingly townie one lol) and wanna see their reads or something pending a Wall-flip.

My brain is not functioning after typing this. Please enjoy.

[Briar]

I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct

It was probably a rude thing to say regardless of whether it was right. Sorry.

I'm thinking it wasn't right though because if it was then you'd probably know why I said it.

You don't have to be sorry; I had a guess or two and it was more along the lines of like, you didn't like it because you didn't like the implications it made about me playing here, rather than something personal, but all the same don't worry about being rude. <3

[Briar]

I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct

It was probably a rude thing to say regardless of whether it was right. Sorry.

I'm thinking it wasn't right though because if it was then you'd probably know why I said it.

You don't have to be sorry; I had a guess or two and it was more along the lines of like, you didn't like it because you didn't like the implications it made about me playing here, rather than something personal, but all the same don't worry about being rude. <3

Though, I do want to ask to clarify @S_S: was it a game thing or a more personal/player thing that you were thinking?

[Briar]

Hmmm. The fact that you are already locked into the Keep, makes me apprehensive for you to pick the other people in the Keep with you. Because, if you are scum, that means you are picking out the the people you think you can most trick into town reading you.

I personally want to go to the keep as well, but I think that means we should let the rest of the thread pick our third.

I mean, I don't expect everyone to go 9/9 with my same exact reads, but it's the configuration I think gives us the best odds right now of sorting the trickier spots in this game.

Are you apprehensive about me picking you? My assumption would be that if you're town that wouldn't be as much of a worry for you -- as a less experienced player (but still one who has experience with mafia) you shouldn't fumble I think? As town to the point where other people don't townread you, and I've already ceded the fact that as it stands I'd be fine voting you if that was the consensus. Also, do you have any read on me independent of me picking these things? (I think I prodded at this earlier but I am a little too lazy to go back through your ISO right now to see if you said anything about it.)

[Briar]

Though, I do want to ask to clarify @S_S: was it a game thing or a more personal/player thing that you were thinking?

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but the last time I played with the player I thought you were we had a pretty unpleasant conflict.

Oh, okay!

We've never had any sort of unpleasant interaction, rest assured. <3

[Briar]

And what I was asking was more if you were worrying because you held my game in some regard that it had implications on what I was doing here, or if you were worrying because I was someone you disliked on a personal level/didn't wanna share a game-space with.

[Briar]

The former clearly is like, something I'd wanna tiptoe around in vague questioning to flesh out but it's moot now that I know.

[Briar]

Completely random side note: I'm using the Sepia theme for this account and I thought it was ugly when I picked it but it's really grown on me.

[Briar]

I would be fine with Briar being treated as IC, her thoughts are very potent and I'm greatly enjoying her presence this game.

Maybe I am smitten, who the fuck knows

<3 <3 <3

[Briar]

It's about time you get the support and kindness you deserve, dammit.

[Briar]

Is it non-trivial currently? I mean, we do have one group still that has 3/3 spaces in it and in theory if we blitz the other two groups full with snapshot townreads we'd leave them all in the Gate, which I don't think is the worst group to have at least 1 conftown come out of.

I don't think it's a winning strategy because getting 3/3 sounds far-fetched though and I'd rather have like, 1 scummy person in each group if possible for obvious reasons. Save for the Keep.

Actually I don't know why I'm speculating about this, it's fun but not gonna happen realistically.

[Briar]

Unwnd Fanclub Commence.

@Luke: Thanks for the answer -- I pressed on it again because I didn't want it to get lost in the fray, and also because I get the feeling of things getting eaten up and I'd rather people have a chance to be heard than not, ya know?

[Briar]

Does you townreading me get rid of any of that apprehension WRT my theorizing or no?

[Briar]

Is it non-trivial currently? I mean, we do have one group still that has 3/3 spaces in it and in theory if we blitz the other two groups full with snapshot townreads we'd leave them all in the Gate, which I don't think is the worst group to have at least 1 conftown come out of.

I don't think it's a winning strategy because getting 3/3 sounds far-fetched though and I'd rather have like, 1 scummy person in each group if possible for obvious reasons. Save for the Keep.

Actually I don't know why I'm speculating about this, it's fun but not gonna happen realistically.

6 town finding each other well enough and quickly enough to agree on 3 scummy players, and not have that conversation subverted by scum seems like a stretch.

I went back through the thread to see if I could firm up any reads and didn't come away with much I didn't already have. :/

Yeah, it's not reasonable, but it's still fun to imagine somehow.

I'm at the state where I don't feel like, strong about any scumreads. Townreads are a bit easier.

[Briar]

I want to go to the wall since that's the only place my scumreads will matter unless I obvtown, which I probably won't cause I don't have super high motivation for mafia atm. Otherwise, I'd rather go to the wall (again, cause I probably won't obvtown)

Having a UTR decide who goes where should increase our odds of winning (of forcing someone to scumclaim by not following the plan) right?

Do you have a candidate for UTR?

(Me btw.)

[Briar]

Lukewarm's my backup, yes.

I have no reason right now to think he isn't town. And if he isn't town, I think that when we get down to the nitty-gritty he'd probably slip and show his hand (especially if we sorted in the Wall group first where he'd be forced to take stances).

[Briar]

I think that I'd be able to read Infinity as well were she in that group with us as well and would feel comfortable picking between her/Luke if people were wary of me for some reason.

p-edit: Yeah, I think that for the best odds we do Keep first, but /solving/ within Wall might be good regarding Luke, seeing how people square up to what and then giving us the flip to check it out after? This is gonna be done anyways though so like, ya know.

[Briar]

Ana, did you mean it when you said you'd vote absinthe in the Keep group?

[Briar]

Walk me through the process? I know you said you'd vote one of me/absinthe over yourself but I wanna know the why regarding absinthe.

(I ask this for uh. Let's put it reasons right now.)

p-edit: Okay, I think that's fair.

[Briar]

I think right now we might be tiptoeing around each other and I hope you understand what I mean by that?

[Briar]

(Which invites some other paranoia currently but meh.)

[Briar]

For my own sanity I am praying that is not the group that we end up with.

Who do you think is scum right now, if you have any reads like that?

[Briar]

Quickshot last two explanations?

[Briar]

They haven't really said enough for me to get a read there beyond 'sure that's fine'.

Infinity does seem a little... muted, to what I am expecting, but given she prefaced it all with saying she was going to be more lowkey this game I've looked past it.

[Briar]

Hum.

I would've liked more of a follow-up from S_S regarding if he thought you were genuine or not, but I'm unsure if he's even gotten in the car yet tbh?

[Briar]

But not everyone can be town... >_>

[Briar]

Okay. In a world where I'm not super paranoid, I'm okay with:

(Lukewarm, unwnd) and at least 1, maybe 2 of (Ana/absinthe) as town.

(catboi, Dunnstral, S_S, Infinity) 2/3 scum in here is where my head is at. But this feels easy because most of them haven't even posted a lot and it's hard to gauge them. It feels like I'm PoEing activity when I look at it which is. :/

[Briar]

I will never 1v1 you Ana, we will be besties forever.

[Briar]

If anyone tries to make me fight you I'll lay down my life so you may live in luxury.

[Briar]

<3 I AM HERE FOR YOU NO MATTER WHAT!!

[Briar]

Fortunately for you. :>

[Briar]

We do not live in this world this game I am a wild mare untamed unleashing my solves and horsepower upon the poor mafia. We ride into battle slaying our foes.

[Briar]

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Briar]

I am excited but also mildly horrified and hoping absinthe doesn't hop in here because if that group ends up being the same /after/ the mafia change people around I am going to cry.

[Briar]

My groupsolve will rest in peace now, goodbye my sweet dream world.

[Briar]

I am excited but also mildly horrified and hoping absinthe doesn't hop in here because if that group ends up being the same /after/ the mafia change people around I am going to cry.

I'm not going to lie if that's the final keep group after shuffle I'm going to find a window and jump out.

Make sure you grab my hand and take me with you.

[Briar]

I would've liked more of a follow-up from S_S regarding if he thought you were genuine or not

Bear in mind that it is extremely to our advantage to hide our reads as much as possible.

You think so?

I'm in the opposite, I know that there's a slightly larger-than-normal influence from mafia, but in a game like this I thought it would be best if we all collaborated together to figure out like ~optimal~ groups if they existed.

How do you feel about what Ana did just now?

[Briar]

(unwnd I know that post wasn't for me but I read it and I am mulling over it right now.)

[Briar]

I am excited but also mildly horrified and hoping absinthe doesn't hop in here because if that group ends up being the same /after/ the mafia change people around I am going to cry.

I'm not going to lie if that's the final keep group after shuffle I'm going to find a window and jump out.

Make sure you grab my hand and take me with you.

We will snack on delicious popcorn and laugh at the others as they try to solve the game <3

HELL YEAH.

[Briar]

Man, I'm having so much fun this game, it's nice to have the energy to actually post again.

[Briar]

Did something change your read on me unwnd?

[Briar]

Hmm.

Why does there have to be 1 scum in that trio? I'm leaning towards it being a bit more unlikely right now, like I know there's 3 scum to find and the possibility of being blindsided is there, but, is there anything tangible or is it just that it's a gamestate reason?

[Briar]

I'm trying to take this game at face value in the sense that I'm not playing with (much) paranoia, and I feel as a whole that both absinthe and Anastasia are towny -- at least, I can believe the reasons presented, though IDK if this distinction makes sense.

[Briar]

Ugh. Seeing that made me want to immediately vote keep, just to make sure you didn't get to brute force your own plan into place. But I am going to actually wait for the group to decide before I just place myself...

Oh Luke don't do this to me.

So, question though: why do you have to wait for the group's approval in this instance?

Arguably the Keep is the most important group, and if you see 1, maybe 2, people doing something that you don't like, and you see it as bruce forcing something -- what do you think the intentions are for it right now, and why not like... I dunno, hm. I think I'm basically leading up to "why not heroshoot and throw yourself in" if you're town, since you know that at least you're town and you have a shot of disarming me/Ana if one of us is scum?

[Briar]

You think so?

To an extent. Scum will have either 6 or 15 options for who to swap; either way, which swap is optimal will depend almost entirely on how people are being read. The less they know about that, the more likely they are to make a suboptimal swap-- and the swap matters a huge deal.

How do you feel about what Ana did just now?

Probably moderately +scum because giving up control is pretty much always +town here, but not very much so. (Incidentally: this means Lukewarm's reaction is towny.)

Ugh, I don't want to think about the swap. >_> I've been handwaving it as an Event to deal with later and I don't wanna think about the consequences /now./

Do you think that Ana's giving up control though when she's outright stated she won't vote herself? Like, she cannot exist in a world where she's voting her partner, right? And at this point her voting herself would be a scumclaim, so what control does she realistically have other than taking up a slot in the group?

[Briar]

Like, if Ana doesn't follow through, we all see it. We're sitting there very aware that she's stalling, and there's two town in the group to figure each other out.

[Briar]

Incidentally I have considered that Ana was leading up to a big WIFOM play where she's somehow the vote because everyone looks at her and goes "wow, look at Ana, being so selfless voting others, we can really trust /her/ since she has no personal agenda" but I think that's also a really really dumb plan to bank on in the Keep group.

[Briar]

Oh, you already mentioned gambiting right before me, lmao.

Maybe it is bold to do, but I think there's too much room for error for it to be /realistic/ for her to try and do. Will she go for it? Maybe, but like. In that case the two other people in the group, assuming Ana stays in there, can just vow never to vote her on the threat of scumclaiming to the town.

[Briar]

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Mmm. Maybe?

I honestly think that if there's scum in the more ~active~ people it's catboi, who made at least some posts early and attempted to have a presence. Though how it panned out is... meh, IMO.

Or S_S trying now, but I'm still working out where he's going with what he's talking about right now. It doesn't make sense to discredit Ana of all the people though, given what she's done, so it's a big ol' shrug.

[Briar]

Ugh, I don't want to think about the swap. >_> I've been handwaving it as an Event to deal with later and I don't wanna think about the consequences /now./

I mean yes, and in a sense you're right that we shouldn't be talking about it much because we don't want to give scum ideas. But... it is an important part of the setup, so you can't just ignore it.

I know I can't, but I just don't know how to realistically approach it especially when I like... don't know how else to play this without talking about reads? IDK.

[Briar]

Ohhh. Huh.

[Briar]

Fuck I hate this swapping mechanic.

[Briar]

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Mmm. Maybe?

I honestly think that if there's scum in the more ~active~ people it's catboi, who made at least some posts early and attempted to have a presence. Though how it panned out is... meh, IMO.

Or S_S trying now, but I'm still working out where he's going with what he's talking about right now. It doesn't make sense to discredit Ana of all the people though, given what she's done, so it's a big ol' shrug.

You think catboi is scum? Is this a read you were holding onto?

No? He's in the lower half of my reads, I wasn't a fan of how he approached me early on with his questioning because it seemed at odds with the tools he had to like, deal with me, I guess?

[Briar]

S_S, question: Are you saying the gambit is that Ana says all this and gets swapped out, rather than the gambit being her presence and theoretical vote when we're actually voting?

[Briar]

Why Am I Still Awake.

[Briar]

Are you saying the gambit is that Ana says all this and gets swapped out, rather than the gambit being her presence and theoretical vote when we're actually voting?

The latter, or she says all this and then acts hesitant when D2 actually comes. There would be no point in voting as a gambit, since at the Keep anyone who gets voted will just self-hammer. (or not self-hammer and enjoy their conftown status)

I guess my issue with it being the latter is that... isn't it just a scumclaim if she's hesitant? I don't understand the like... worry regarding Ana since we can hold her to her word knowing how many times she's said it.

[Briar]

Why Am I Still Awake.

because you played too much league of legends and now you can't calm down and get to sleep.

you should never play video games before bed.

Why did you call me out like this. Get out of the Keep group right now.

[Briar]

I guess my issue with it being the latter is that... isn't it just a scumclaim if she's hesitant? I don't understand the like... worry regarding Ana since we can hold her to her word knowing how many times she's said it.

The weird thing here is that I am simultaneously trying to argue that (a) Ana as town OUGHT to be hesitant and (b) Ana as scum would be hesitant.

I think the upshot is that she's probably town, for how much she has pushed back on (a).

Okay, I /think/ I understand a bit better now, maybe.

[Briar]

I have a weird addiction to townreading people who post a decent amount and make a bit of sense.

[Briar]

Fuuuuuck.

I shouldn't have voted myself into the Keep this early. >_>

[Briar]

I think I am okay with Luke being in the group. If I get swapped out we can go from there to figure things out regarding him.

There's been like, (1) ping I've had from him (I feel I have to mention this just for due diligence) now but, currently that's not nearly enough for me to be like "no, no Luke, bad Luke."

[Briar]

However, uh.

I do trust Ana's faith in her absinthe read, for what that's worth.

[Briar]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

[Briar]

I guess the issue there is that if she's scum she can pick someone to flip out of the thread earlier who's a threat.

Which I guess might be worth a point trade for scum? IDK, doesn't seem like it but meh.

[Briar]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

I am confident in you and Absinthe

In that case I think we should have absinthe then? And if there's a swap we go from there.

(I'm basically treating you like conf-town with one super weird restriction where I can't actually do the thing and vote you at this point.)

[Briar]

I do trust Ana's faith in her absinthe read, for what that's worth.

Do you know Ana's main?

I figured it out, yes.

[Briar]

Briar learns to bite her tongue today. She is good at it. She does not say what she wants to say.

[Briar]

I think the worlds where you're town went up slightly, S_S!

[Briar]

And on that note, good night.

[Briar]

Hey.

[Briar]

Ana, you're like Schrodinger's townie this game. I hope I am not using that term wrong because it'd be very embarrassing.

[Briar]

(Can you talk to me more about the S_S read? I went to sleep thinking that he was feeling townier from how he was posting.)

[Briar]

Oh, sidenote that I did leave upon last night: If Ana does flip scum, S_S is always town, I think.

[Briar]

I'm personally wobbling back and forth between putting the null players at the Gate and the scummy ones, because I find it harder to sort in nulltown/unsure reads and having at least one cleared probably tells us a lot about what's happening, because those are the sorts of slots that I think? mafia try to position around the most, trying to uplift them because it's feasible while also like, keeping them as a potential miselim/push versus outright scummy ones where it's like, a bus or just hardpush. I think there's more nuance in how those sorts of former slots are treated and maybe they should go to the Gate.

[Briar]

Having a nullread at the Keep seems dangerous, because assuming that Ana is town, a nullread has a 3/7 chance to be scum and if they're not scum, and assuming we don't somehow go 3/3 mafteam in another group, I'd most likely get switched out to another group for a different nullread which basically fucks over the Keepgroup and how easy it's supposed to be.

[Briar]

Hmm. True.

There's just a small part of me that doesn't trust her despite everything because as a player I feel this is the sort of thing she would do as scum so holding her accountable to her willingness to vote someone who's not herself makes me more comfortable with her. Like, I'm pre-emptively neutering her as scum.

But I guess that her willingness to do that only extended to me/absinthe I think?

Like, hm.

[Briar]

I guess I'm not sure what I made of that response S_S because you were talking about gambits earlier and in that theoretical where Ana is now with two unknowns who aren't me/absinthe you're kind of like "yeah, well, we vote Ana" and that's... it feels? At odds with what you've been positing, but I don't know if you just said Ana gets voted in that situation basing it off of /my/ read of Ana?

[Briar]

S_S, I know that you don't wanna talk about reads, but I think a lot of us have at this point, so I wanted to ask: What is your actual read on Ana?

[Briar]

Okay.

(If you did I'm too lazy to go check for myself. :>)

[Briar]

Apologies, I'll be around more tomorrow. Tonight isn't very good.

Giving IOU to questions, I had some thoughts about the nature of the Keep-group because that's where my personal focus is but I don't want to explain them when I feel like this. So, tomorrow, hopefully.

[Briar]

I've been burned too much by Ana's fiery play to trust her unconditionally.

However -- my read is a townread on her, regardless. There's just a conditional attached to the entire situation that we find ourselves in where that she specifically, as a player, would totally do this as scum. It fits her so well that in addition to townreading her I find it useful for town to leash her a specific way, if we can execute it as such. For as much as I think she /would/ do it, I don't think that... it fits into her play this game at all, and the nature of the gambit does nothing for her team at all if she's scum.

Basically I'm just covering all the bases to make sure that town gets picked in the keep. I also happen to trust her judgement when she is town, because it generally errs towards being pretty damn accurate, so having her hammer on the offchance that I'm removed from the Keep and someone else gets in there is fine with me since she trusts absinthe so much.

Regarding the Keep itself; the issue then becomes if Ana gets moved and there's a wildcard, but realistically I think that absinthe (who I don't think I've actually spoken much about, playwise, this game -- it's in broad strokes for the most part that I find them... agreeable? I know that they're a very good scum player from reputation and I'm wary of being burned by them somehow but nothing's stuck out to me as bad? It's the sort of thing where they're saying their self-meta is that they obvious-town, and while it's not the sort of Loud and Brash obvious towning that like I do, lmao, it's a very good presence and I could probably go reinforce this if I wanted to for everyone but I also think that's a big waste of time. Also this is a lot of words but to tack on too I'll sheep Ana until I'm given reason to doubt her read there) should... probably? Be in the Keep? I do actually think that there's a chance we can get a 3 scum group with catboi being at the Gate because I don't like... scumread unwnd. I've explained this one before but I do think we could in theory shove two of like, I guess Dunnstral/Infinity/S_S?? There into that group. I'm very much in a mindset where I'm fairly confident on who I think is town and sort of 'meh' at the remaining, but with a pool of 3 it's probably better anyways to try and townhunt and I prefer that.

I sidetracked myself since I'm typing into one big reply for the sake of this alt's playstyle or whatever, but. I toyed around with the idea of having Luke come into the Keep because he's the weakest of my townreads and I feel like if I am wrong, it's probably there? And I'm willing to hedge a bit towards Ana's scumread on Unwnd and try for like... a 1-1-1 divide between groups, though I'm unsure if that's actually useful mechanic to do or not when we can just try for 3. It was the logic while I was at work that while a lot of movement is useful to discern, a /lack/ of movement and keeping the most important people in a group could be beneficial for us all. I dunno. Also I think that if we do try for a 1-1-1 divide somehow, Absinthe would be better off in the Wall group because I'm comfortable right now calling them town and I wouldn't want to waste IC info on them when we could narrow our pool down.

So basically I've been angsting about this all day at work trying to figure out what's best because I forgot that being town means I get ""responsibility"" and I hate it. Uh, thoughts on my ideas would be appreciated before I knight someone as the guardian of the Keep would be cool because I'm honestly fine with going with a 3scumpool insta-win or a 1-1-1 if anyone thinks that it's valuable. I'm not very good at the logistics/statistical sides of things and I might have thought myself into a plan that actually hurts us and I'd rather know upfront LMAO. So yeah.

[Briar]

I could tell you my main if you wanted, I guess, I was going to out it anyways postgame as I often do because playing on alts is just a way for me to like... force my brain to play mafia a particular way which is more in-line with how I want to play, versus my main. Which I chalk up to typing with proper capitalization and grammar and the like.

And I realized we actually have played together but the game was not a very exciting one and I did nothing in it whatsoever.

[Briar]

But frankly I think that the way I'm playing here is probably too alien to draw many meaningful connections except for my earliest days of play on Mafiascum, so /shrug!

[Briar]

I would die for you Unwnd.

[Briar]

I am good at obvtowning too. No one can obvtown harder than ME, sorry.

[Briar]

It's a blessing and a curse because then the haters start trying to kill me.

[Briar]

Be strong, Ana. Be strong.

[Briar]

You can do both because when one of us drinks the wine apparently we all drink it together. Put poison in it.

[Briar]

Meh, up to you if you wanna know if you think somehow it'll help. Maybe I put too much stock into me typing/playing like this and people can actually draw like, conclusions from my meta. Dunno.

[Briar]

I didn't think when I chose to come into the Keep with you that you could be so wonderful as you are and it makes me giggle a bit inside my heart.

You can't see how wide my smile is and I'm so glad I'm in here with you.

It took me some time but I finally realized our soul connection cannot be broken in these different bodies.

[Briar]

<3

I've learned some... bad habits and have only used an alt once per game.

[Briar]

He's going to be so happy. Or angered. You know how mad he gets at me all the time..

[Briar]

I picked the Keep because I play... for keeps.

[Briar]

He would never allow such a thing to happen.

[Briar]

God I fucking wish I could both pocket AND sustain it.

[Briar]

I have... well I have two but I'll manifest some more for you absinthe.

You would want Luke in your place if you did not want the Keep, yes? Or do you think there's another alternative we could go for should you not join?

[Briar]

For what it's worth it's probably like...

I think you have a chance not to be the IC at the gate but the collective thread, I think? Thinks you are pretty towny so the mafia will have to either concede that we're all on the right track and IC you, or try to WIFOM us out on you if you go there and hope we second guess, but as it stands I think you're townier than the people you'd theoretically be with.

Or you'd be scum there and I'd maim you, but let's not jump to conclusions.

[Briar]

I think if Absinthe came to the keep we somehow all remained at the keep the collective suffering would be intense and memorable.

I refuse this reality.

[Briar]

Luke would be my choice of the uncommitted players.

I'm going to give it a few hours for serious objections and then vote keep unless convinced it's super suboptimal of me. I guess the main objection would be that I wouldn't be around very long to weigh in on the rest of the mini-games.

I don't think it's suboptimal and I'm fine with it personally because like... even if it is suboptimal at worst I think what happens is that one of the three of us gets shuffled somewhere else and we have to deal with it.

[Briar]

I think the way you pocketed him during that dance was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

I wish somebody could break my heart that way but I am so jaded inside.

Could I get a further clarification about this

Unless it outs either of your identities

One of you I'm certain of, the other not so much

I live to dance.

[Briar]

We all love you Unwnd.

[Briar]

No no, you meant less!

[Briar]

Okay, I'm cool with this! Nice!

[Briar]

(also, I have a guess about Briar and Ana's mains, which I am looking forward to figuring out if they are right)

How ... did you find out if you are NEW HERE.

[Briar]

(I'd have more to say but honestly I still feel crummy and I think at this point I just wanna throw everyone else into a group and figure out what happens, I guess.)

Yes, I think it makes to do it like that? Regarding the gate.

[Briar]

Damn okay let's fucking PARTY.

[Briar]

I don't know what I'm supposed to make of Dunnstral picking the Wall if anything.

[Briar]

Like forcing the last two people into a place is a Thing, alright.

[Briar]

I don't know what I'm supposed to make of Dunnstral picking the Wall if anything.

You can make of it that S_S just said he wanted Infinity at the wall and Dunn made a move that makes it impossible.

Yeah but it uhhh. Hm.

I don't know if my theories matter much given we're about to see what scum decides to do with the switches and I don't want to give them any ideas but the theories come to mind for scum!Dunnstral. It does however feel a bit too blindingly obvious of a move for scum to do given how we were deliberating about it but like, I'm not buying into the layers of WIFOM until I see what happens.

[Briar]

No more talk about the switches, what you think of people, etc. Let's just hang out and see what happens.

[Briar]

Hahaha, okay.

I miss you absinthe, and I am so sorry Infinity.

[Briar]

Okay, so my strategy is basically I think we should just like, let the three of us at the Keep throw around our reads a bit and then hammer in there; I am almost positive Infinity is scum, but on the off chance Ana is being a rapscallion playing in her silly ways I don't want to freeze out Infinity entirely; that and she has to try and to like, do /something/ unless she's just not going to post at all and concede the point to town to avoid associatives.

[Briar]

I already thought about it, don't worry; I'm not gonna vote until we're ready to flip our group and move on.

[Briar]

I'm going to reread catboi/S_S, because I had it the other way around versus Ana yesterday and with the switch happening as it did I feel even more confident in like... trying to collaborate and listen.

[Briar]

Yeah, I think putting the 3 of us in Keep was pretty game-busting.

[Briar]

The Wall is going to be the hardest group for me to solve, I think.

[Briar]

Okay, so my strategy is basically I think we should just like, let the three of us at the Keep throw around our reads a bit and then hammer in there; I am almost positive Infinity is scum, but on the off chance Ana is being a rapscallion playing in her silly ways I don't want to freeze out Infinity entirely; that and she has to try and to like, do /something/ unless she's just not going to post at all and concede the point to town to avoid associatives.

Infinity is confirmed scum because absinthe is confirmed town at the keep

Look, you don't know Ana. She's a real trickster. An imp. Prone to the most chaotic of moves you've ever seen. She'll do something you'll never expect as scum just because she can. Because she wants to. For the thrill of a good gambit. There's nothing that could tame that wild spirit within her that just wants to see the world burn down and I am the only person here armed with a fire hose ready to extinguish it if she's on a path of destruction.

[Briar]

(It's like 98% Infinity.)

[Briar]

I'm going to reread catboi/S_S, because I had it the other way around versus Ana yesterday and with the switch happening as it did I feel even more confident in like... trying to collaborate and listen.

Can you explain why? You kept saying you thought I might be scum yesterday but it never really went beyond "not towny enough" and "reacted to me moving funny"

Mmm. I really just didn't like the way you responded to how I was behaving, honestly? It doesn't make sense to me for you to have that sort of reaction -- like, I dunno, you can just... challenge me yourself if you're town? Like, it felt emotionally out of place more than anything, disconnected from what you could have done. And in general I'm gonna be real, I can't remember much else you did beyond that but that's generally a sign to me that scum is like, either failing to keep up or is making content up that's passable.

But, knowing that you are a good scum player, I think I should give you some benefit that you could do more than passable; in the moment, my read is also somewhat anchored on the fact that you're fighting S_S who I thought was town yesterday which makes me wanna hunker down and just throw you out right now.

[Briar]

Okay, so my strategy is basically I think we should just like, let the three of us at the Keep throw around our reads a bit and then hammer in there; I am almost positive Infinity is scum, but on the off chance Ana is being a rapscallion playing in her silly ways I don't want to freeze out Infinity entirely; that and she has to try and to like, do /something/ unless she's just not going to post at all and concede the point to town to avoid associatives.

Infinity is confirmed scum because absinthe is confirmed town at the keep

Look, you don't know Ana. She's a real trickster. An imp. Prone to the most chaotic of moves you've ever seen. She'll do something you'll never expect as scum just because she can. Because she wants to. For the thrill of a good gambit. There's nothing that could tame that wild spirit within her that just wants to see the world burn down and I am the only person here armed with a fire hose ready to extinguish it if she's on a path of destruction.

Oh. I see, you think ana is scum and infinity and absinthe are both town who were swapped around.

I find Infinity being town unlikely

...no, I think Ana is town in this situation but I also know and respect her, mainly. Enough to where I think there is a world where scum!Ana toys with us and does whatever she did for the hell of it to try and wrap around the votes on her. But this world exists like, 1/100 times IMO. It's just accountability.

[Briar]

I really wonder who Infinity is going to try to peg as scum between the two of us.

[Briar]

RIP. I'll miss her.

[Briar]

Dunnstral I love you for having short ISOs.

[Briar]

the town motivation he should've said was because he townread luke/unwnd and he wanted to go for the auto-win but he didn't say that :<

I didn't say that because it's not true. I thought that there was 1 scum between unwnd/luke already.

When did you vocalize this, or did you?

[Briar]

Hmm.

[Briar]

It depends on if they discussed somehow where they were going to end up together, honestly? I think that's the sort of comment that's said after you've already got a rough framework going of who goes in what group.

So, maybe.

[Briar]

I don't wanna say this game could be that easy because it is, in fact, never that easy. But is the simple answer that Dunn hopped in that group to avoid auto-lose and we should just not waste our time here?

This game seems pretty bleak for scum.

p-edit: Have you explained the 'weird' parts of Luke, and if not can you, Dunn? I had him as town, albeit not absinthe/Ana levels.

[Briar]

That... seems kinda risky.

[Briar]

Ana please explain the TMI my brain isn't quite following that one. Just that S_S said the townie instead of catboi??

[Briar]

I'm going to reread catboi/S_S, because I had it the other way around versus Ana yesterday and with the switch happening as it did I feel even more confident in like... trying to collaborate and listen.

Can you explain why? You kept saying you thought I might be scum yesterday but it never really went beyond "not towny enough" and "reacted to me moving funny"

Mmm. I really just didn't like the way you responded to how I was behaving, honestly? It doesn't make sense to me for you to have that sort of reaction -- like, I dunno, you can just... challenge me yourself if you're town? Like, it felt emotionally out of place more than anything, disconnected from what you could have done. And in general I'm gonna be real, I can't remember much else you did beyond that but that's generally a sign to me that scum is like, either failing to keep up or is making content up that's passable.

But, knowing that you are a good scum player, I think I should give you some benefit that you could do more than passable; in the moment, my read is also somewhat anchored on the fact that you're fighting S_S who I thought was town yesterday which makes me wanna hunker down and just throw you out right now.

I don't understand whaat you mean. By "challenge you" do you mean go to the keep myself? Because I didn't think you were automatically scum for it, I just didn't understand wat you were doing and was...a little frustrated I guess because I'd had a plan for how I wanted to do things and you disrupted it before I had a chance to post. So everything in my reaction after was trying to understand why you did it because I wasn'tgoing to assume you wer town, I wanted to question you to figure out if what you were doing made sense. And ultimately I concluded that I didn't see scum motivation in your play. But it feels like you're hung up on the severity of that initial reaction and, uh, maybe a little upset by it and looking at things objectively? Because I have no idea how you'd categorize me as "less memorable" than something_smart, really.

And, uh, thank for the compliment but I don't think I'm

that

good considering my recent games. (also this narrows your identity down to a few people but none of them seem to quite fit >_>)

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

[Briar]

okay the anime avis are starting to get to me ngl

This is ironic because your avatar is also anime <3

Wow am I really alone as a non-anime avi? >.<

I don't wanna say this game could be that easy because it is, in fact, never that easy. But is the simple answer that Dunn hopped in that group to avoid auto-lose and we should just not waste our time here?

This game seems pretty bleak for scum.

p-edit: Have you explained the 'weird' parts of Luke, and if not can you, Dunn? I had him as town, albeit not absinthe/Ana levels.

He focuses too much on the keep. Specifically, he is seeing if, were briar to be swapped out, he could finangle a victory based on existing suspicions of aAnastasia.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge infinity or S_S, except for what looks like a gambit where infinity mentions there being no other non-anime avatars

I'll read over him, then, regarding the associatives.

[Briar]

Okay, Ana, hear me out...

I think that S_S might be town for how Infinity was pushing him versus catboi.

(I'm treating Infinity like she's flipped scum currently which, maybe is not the best method but it's the likely outcome here.)

[Briar]

Spoiler:

Okay, thoughts readswise:

I like unwnd's early energy

I townread Infinity's 52 - something about that mindset fees like it's coming from town

I think Lukewarm's posts have been solidly town and he'd be my first pick for someone to send to the wall right now

No particular scum pings yet

Why do you think that? Why would you not wait to see if other people are okay with it?

Why should I care about what other people think in the moment? Like, if people don't think that I'm towny enough there are two other slots that they can assign to other people and vote them instead, and I'll vote whoever I think is town of those two if no one wants me. I'm just hamstringing myself if I'm scum by putting the pressure on myself to compete with them but that isn't the case this game, so /shrug. It's a bit shitty of me to not care if other people agree

now

but they will in time.

Hmm, okay. I don't really understand this mindset at all but it'd be an unusually gutsy play for scum.

These posts felt a bit careful? Trying to look town? The opposite of whismical? Idk, it's pretty weak anyway.

she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I kept it to myself because it was very weak, but it's gotten stronger the more catboi has posted.

vs

Spoiler:

My point is that your townread on Dunnstral is nonsense and he would say the same thing regardless of alignment, but that's not why I was pressing you... I wanted to understand your thought process to see if I thought it was genuine.

Do you really think you were getting more out of ana than you already got? Idk this feels like scum!you so far

only if my reads are wrong

I think it's pretty silly to have a value judgement on play that is only determined after the game is over. We want to know now what's good and what isn't; so I think that it is bad play to commit yourself to a read like that, even if the read turns out to be right in the end.

I think you are stuck in a weird place where you can't decide whether you want to shade me as bold genius scum gambitter or bad town tunnel reader and it makes you sound funny

since I think you are scummy it makes me feel I'm on the right track with this briar/absinthe plan

I think you're probably approaching reading s_s not great, though he's still leaning scum for me atm. Like, he loves to talk about things in a vacuum and not come to firm conclusions, though the way he's doing it here I feel is +scum for him.

@s_s Why would ana make up a reason for a read she can't justify as scum?

Because she wouldn't expect to be interrogated this deeply.

I mean, scum have two kinds of reads: tactical and genuine. Town have only genuine reads. Tactical reads are top-down instead of bottom-up (the read comes first, then the justification), so they may not be justifiable in the same way that genuine reads are.

I don't really see why you'd expect scum to have a tactical read at this point in the game. If it was to pocket dunn, ana could've just found a townread she genuinely believe in to pocket then instead. Idk

If it helps your meta ffery, s_s felt similar to this when he was scum in PyP

I don't have a large sample on s_s (at least that I can remember), but I think he does seem a bit more goal-directed as town and I can see the purpose of his questioning a bit more easily.

My motivation to play mafia comes in waves and right now it's at a low point

(532 also reads as a pseudo-defense to me.)

[Briar]

Like, reading over this it feels like Infinity actually wants S_S dead versus catboi who is a scumread but like, not a lot of meat there?

[Briar]

Hey Ana watch this.

[Briar]

VOTE: Briar

[Briar]

UNVOTE:

[Briar]

How's this for a towntell

If I'm scum then we had six options and this seems like the literal worst one. Not only would we have chosen me over Infinity to try to carry the Gate, but we would have picked the IC to be someone who has demolished scum-me before and whose towngame I respect immensely. I don't know who Briar and Ana are but I highly doubt that I would be more scared of them as scum than I would be of ffery.

(I don't want this to get lost for my dumb joke.)

[Briar]

I'm sorry but I felt a big need to do that and that made me laugh really hard.

[Briar]

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

I mean the thing is I'm way more likely to have a restrained reaction in that situation as scum, I don't let my real feelings leak out into the game because that gets me judged. Flipping out at a townie establishing themselves as town only ends up reflecting poorly on me. Like if I were scum I'd probably come in, question you coolly, and then just gradually turn up the heat and start undermining you. But my goal isn't to do that, it's to solve whether you are town and I feel like that was reflected in my approach, I wasn't coming at you with a predetermined conclusion. In general I have a harder time keeping my emotions in check as town, it's not good thing but it just tends to happen with me.

From everything I understand of something_smart, him being active mechanically is completely and utterly NAI. Why would you treat it as a towntell?

Right now as a GTH answer I'd say unwnd at the wall based on my gut feelings from day 1 but that's not a super confident read.

Okay, well, I wouldn't say you flipped out or anything for sure, but to me it did feel like your emotions seeped out a little bit despite you trying to keep them in check since you were frustrated. I don't know how I feel about you saying that you have a harder time keeping yourself in line as town though if that's the case... OTL Ugh. Okay. WHat do you think about what I said WRT Infinity/S_S not being paired? Since the implication is that you fill up the slot and, yeah.

Do you think that whenever S_S posts about mechanics, his alignment stops existing? I remembered it, which (and this is a shortcoming of mine as a player) meant I was prone more to townreading him, and it was not just for the fact he was active but I liked how he sounded while he was talking about those mechanics. I'm not treating him posting about mechanics alone as a towntell and I'm unsure if something was lost in translation there.

Okay, has anything today been influential on you yet?

[Briar]

Infinity does seem kind of burned out tho

I think she gets sent to the keep regardless of her partner?

Stop stealing my thoughts, thief.

I think it makes sense, send people with more WIM to other places to fight.

[Briar]

Hahaha, okay.

I miss you absinthe, and I am so sorry Infinity.

Can I still have a glass of wine?

Yes. <3

[Briar]

Unwnd is just a magnet for our attention and love. And hate apparently but we hate the haters.

[Briar]

When the Keep flips I beg of you all to remember my thoughts and cases btw I want to feel smart after this game is over.

[Briar]

Also re 1130 I think WIOFM cancels that out in theory because if you ended up deciding between me/catboi you would have to take into account the possibility that you're being set up. Maybe not in practice, but I think I would still certainly prefer to have Briar decide than absinthe.

Why's that?

[Briar]

I'm gonna do that ISO thing rather than keep begging senpai (Briar) to notice (townread) me

You won't charm me, fiend.

[Briar]

I think it makes sense, send people with more WIM to other places to fight.

I'm not exactly Mr. WIM as scum though. My scumgame usually flags eventually as I find it harder and harder to make an effort; maybe I'd be better this game because it's only two days. Not sure. I think I'd also be demoralized by the way the day ended, unless it was planned with Dunnstral.

Meh, I think that objectively you had more than Infinity at this point even if she was trying to get back into it? Doesn't matter too much to me currently though, I'm inclined to think you're town over catboi.

p-edit: Okay true.

[Briar]

I had a dream Ana was scum. ;_; Never posting right before bed again.

[Briar]

Briar how obvtown do you think you are?

100%, no doubts.

[Briar]

Infinity, did you guess my main?

[Briar]

Huh, okay; the scum range comment made me curious because you generally say that when I’m town, I’m really obvious town (and I agree that my scum game is... polarizing.) So I wasn’t sure where the sudden change might have come from.

[Briar]

Touché, pfft.

[Briar]

In the interests of not having half this table informed tiptoeing around my identity/meta when I’m not actively hiding it: I’m Ydrasse.

[Briar]

I play differently on alts even if it’s a thin veil to lift for my true identity; there’s a small amount of dissonance from “myself” that allows me to play... properly? Versus socially, which is generally my focus on Ydrasse: hang out with friends.

As for my scumgame, it’s self perception. Other people say that it’s fine but I lose a lot more than I win even if some games are close, which to me is like. “I am bad at this alignment.” And it creates a dumb little spiral but I don’t want to angst on that particularly in this moment. That and it’s soul-draining to me to constantly have to make up stuff that I don’t believe in when as town I can go hog wild knowing that it’s easy to identify me as town so I’m hamstring myself from the start.

Also I was playing League that night, indeed. :>