Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[JacksonVirgo]

Sup bitches. It's ya boi.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sup bitches. It's ya boi.

VOTE: Jackson

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DyFbkzCu61k

[JacksonVirgo]

Wow first post number is my birth year how awesomely timed.

[JacksonVirgo]

I will not request a catch-up as that's receiving possibly biased information so I'll go ahead and catch up myself. Which is daunting with 80 pages but it is what it is

[JacksonVirgo]

Sup bitches. It's ya boi.

While I don't think this post was made with bad intentions in mind, I kindly ask all players to refrain from using language that may potentially cause offence.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DyFbkzCu61k

Spoiler:

Jokes aside, I'll refrain in the future if possible. At least for this game :P

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: Pages 1-10

25 -> Already don't like Andres, if they found a post scummy why go through the trouble to brace yourself for possibly retaliation which they wouldn't be able to prepare for as it's so early.

27 -> Unsure how I feel about 25 after this, I don't think scum would willingly give possible evidence against their push on a Townie. This is assuming a bus isn't happening, associative reads I try to avoid as best as I can without the appropriate flip or confidence in the initial read.

59 -> Why would you post a read tier-list this early in the game? Not a fan of Pooky either.

110 -> This is anti-town from Pooky, their wording makes it appear as if this is serious.

113 -> I take back 110, I am not sure if I can ask for proof of this without getting into trouble for something so I'll leave it for now.

158 -> This is going to be awkward to try and word properly but this feels LAMIST, but I also do agree with it but I wouldn't ever really

say

it as it's a given so I think this is a post to attempt trying to appear as Town.

194 -> NM is dead but worth noting that's why I use NM-1 when it's E-2 cuz as soon as you vote he gon' appear with a hammer.

231 -> Not a fan of Pooky just pushing from the ancient read of them repping out as scum, there could be various amounts of reason for a replacement. This is irregardless that I know N_M was in fact Town, this feels like it's a cheap push that cannot backfire as it's from "known logic" or however you want to word it.

249 -> Scorp, why exactly did you want to stop discussion here regarding N_M? Discussion is beneficial irregardless if the wagon itself was a flawed one, especially in the early game.

I would vote Pooky if I was at this point in the game.
I also see my vote exists.

UNVOTE:

---------------------

This post has been mod-edited per JacksonVirgo's request.

Summary of edits:

- post tag fixed;
- spoiler tag fixed.

Greeting.

[JacksonVirgo]

Greeting

could you fix that broken spoiler please?

[JacksonVirgo]

Just realized pooky is dead. Lol

[JacksonVirgo]

If it wasn't Pooky it'd be Andres. But that read is weak as of page 10

[JacksonVirgo]

And just so we’re clear..
I’m the games I have played, based on some shitty math the repped slots are 37% scum.

Which 37% is usually higher than the confidence I have in my own reads.

Vote isn’t parked, but Jackson has to earn the unvote.. So far so good..

Where are you getting that percentage from? I do not appreciate statistics being pulled from thin air.

Out of 13 players. Assuming 3 scum. It's 23.08% exactly as to any specific slot being scum. So are you claiming that replacing out specifically makes the individual chance of them flipping scum greater than if they did not replace out?

I do not appreciate, and I will not tolerate, shade like you have just done regarding your sentence about my vote. Do not continue this. If you feel the need to make these comments, do so with reasoning or I am going to assume it's from scum wanting to discredit my slot.

[JacksonVirgo]

What is it with this slot and terrible overreacting? I was actually giving you credit..

It was a backhanded "compliment"

[JacksonVirgo]

And I was not overreacting, I was stating my stance as obviously as I can possibly get it so you stop and actually explain your reads instead of shade, which gets nowhere fast.

This goes for everyone.

[JacksonVirgo]

From my games on this site..

I personally cannot follow or trust in the math which is created without showing how you got to the conclusion you have gotten to, I am sure you can understand this.

This is generally pointless to argue as N_M has flipped Town. Unless you are talking about my own slot which has replaced out twice now, is this what you are talking about?

[JacksonVirgo]

What is it with this slot and terrible overreacting? I was actually giving you credit..

It was a backhanded "compliment"

No, it wasn’t.

I gave you my math.
Said my vote wasn’t parked.
Said you were doing well so far in getting it removed.

If you felt it was backhanded. That’s your own personal issues to work out.

And, yes. You reacted poorly.

You have me a statistic which is useless to everyone except yourself, not your math but this discussion is useless. And I do not care if you believe I reacted poorly, it matters not for me.

[JacksonVirgo]

For what it's worth I don't think Scorp is scum here.

[JacksonVirgo]

From my games on this site..

I personally cannot follow or trust in the math which is created without showing how you got to the conclusion you have gotten to, I am sure you can understand this.

This is generally pointless to argue as N_M has flipped Town. Unless you are talking about my own slot which has replaced out twice now, is this what you are talking about?

I honestly don’t have any notes on slots that have repped twice..

It’s not new to anyone that people rep out of scum slots.. I don’t see why you are even surprised at the question.

And it’s a running tally… if you flip red that number becomes just under 40… I don’t think 4/10 scum slots being repped out of is outrageous, nor would I find the 34% number weird if you are town.

If that statistic is true, I would love for you to show me the dataset you used to get to that point. Whether you put it in a spreadsheet or whatever, not anything to do with this game, because 37% seems to be pretty substantial from the 20 odd percent base chance.

If one flip happens to change your number by 3% I don't think your dataset is large enough to be reliable enough imo. Also is it just from normals or is it from themes as well?

[JacksonVirgo]

Why don’t you focus more on catching up and working for your unvote.

You repped into a slot that has been less than impressive..

Why don't you focus on yourself. I will catch up when I am able to catch up, there is a stark difference between the effort needed to have a conversation with somebody like we are now than reading 70 more pages where I cannot gradually add my words.

[JacksonVirgo]

You repped into a slot that has been less than impressive..

I also do not care how my slot has been previously read. I have no information to prove one way or another, and thus I am not going to change how I play a game just because of my theoretical position in the Town. And judging just from recent votes, it appears it's just you that believes that.

Also impressive is not a great marker to read somebody as Town. If that were the case, majority of games would have majority of the players scum-read as only few can be "impressive" enough to warrant a fairly strong town-read.

[JacksonVirgo]

For what it's worth I don't think Scorp is scum here.

Have you read day 2? You think scorpious is town after reading that?
Day 1 is a wash except the formation of the not mafia wagon, you can skip the rest.

I have clearly stated where I have caught up to. I am not skipping a thing

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: unvote till Jackson gets here or the slot is replaced again. :lol:

I've been working, and I had a pretty large sleep last night for some reason. I am starting my 8 hour shift in about an hour, will be able to continue posting about an hour or two after that. Not sure how long in the day we have left though.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nobody is pushing the Adante slot, Jackson seems like he’s just waiting for me to be limmed btw. I mean why not? That play style of just sitting doing nothing had kept Gera alive..

I've explained my situation, and if I did I would not have unvoted you.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Scorpious

Hammer me please..

VOTE: unvote till Jackson gets here or the slot is replaced again. :lol:

Why is their activity got anything to do with the vote on scorpious?

nothing. Just didn't want the day to end without hearing from the replacement. Your takes are ridiculously horrible this game.

VOTE: Malcom just because I think Scorp is misguided Town and I'd rather them not voted out and this is the other wagon.

Catching up now.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ignore the first quote, was going to say something about it but chose against it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Second one too. Ignore all the quotes lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Scorpious

Hammer me please..

VOTE: unvote till Jackson gets here or the slot is replaced again. :lol:

Why is their activity got anything to do with the vote on scorpious?

nothing. Just didn't want the day to end without hearing from the replacement. Your takes are ridiculously horrible this game.

VOTE: Malcom just because I think Scorp is misguided Town and I'd rather them not voted out and this is the other wagon.

Catching up now.

what do you think scorpious is misguided about? just you? or you and geraintm? or ?

From what I have read, it appears to me that they are super stressed about this game and their actions according screams to me as Town that is playing sub-optimally but town nonetheless. This is again coming from what I have read. Which is pages 1-10 and all of since I replaced in without knowing the full context behind the posts.

If you could add to this with the context that you all have whether this seems like a viable read that'd be appreciated. I'll be catching up fully to see for myself soon, if not after my stream ends. Kinda don't have the full mental energy to get started yet and I am procrastinating.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Scorpious

Hammer me please..

VOTE: unvote till Jackson gets here or the slot is replaced again. :lol:

Why is their activity got anything to do with the vote on scorpious?

nothing. Just didn't want the day to end without hearing from the replacement. Your takes are ridiculously horrible this game.

VOTE: Malcom just because I think Scorp is misguided Town and I'd rather them not voted out and this is the other wagon.

Catching up now.

what do you think scorpious is misguided about? just you? or you and geraintm? or ?

From what I have read, it appears to me that they are super stressed about this game and their actions according screams to me as Town that is playing sub-optimally but town nonetheless. This is again coming from what I have read. Which is pages 1-10 and all of since I replaced in without knowing the full context behind the posts.

If you could add to this with the context that you all have whether this seems like a viable read that'd be appreciated. I'll be catching up fully to see for myself soon, if not after my stream ends. Kinda don't have the full mental energy to get started yet and I am procrastinating.

i mean, i don’t even really understand what you’re saying here

like if scorpious is town, how are they playing sub-optimally other than like, interacting with people stuff?

like where do you think scorpious is wrong since you think scorpious is town but not playing well?

I don't think I am really explaining it that well, and I am not entirely sure how to explain it any better. The way they are expressing themselves is townie to me, but not in the way that I would normally town-read somebody, they are acting scummy in the traditional sense but not in a scummy way, in a more townie way that is overwhelmed and/or stressed about being voted out kind of way.

My god I need to read a dictionary or something to find better words.

[JacksonVirgo]

My god. Scorp please spoiler large posts like that

[JacksonVirgo]

? i think most of what others think is scummy about scorpious is mechanical stuff that i don’t know if you’ve read? like this acting scummy but it’s actually towny thing you’re talking about here is pretty ??? to me

Ah I see. Where I don't know or have the mechanical information to directly counter the wagon as of yet. I do think they are Town from what I have read, and thus for this current moment I would rather any wagon apart from them.

[JacksonVirgo]

? i think most of what others think is scummy about scorpious is mechanical stuff that i don’t know if you’ve read? like this acting scummy but it’s actually towny thing you’re talking about here is pretty ??? to me

Ah I see. Where I don't know or have the mechanical information to directly counter the wagon as of yet. I do think they are Town from what I have read, and thus for this current moment I would rather any wagon apart from them.

scorpious claimed mailman day one
claimed sent message to me
i did not receive said message
scorpious either lying or roleblocked

Why would they claim that if they, as scum, knows they did not.

[JacksonVirgo]

? i think most of what others think is scummy about scorpious is mechanical stuff that i don’t know if you’ve read? like this acting scummy but it’s actually towny thing you’re talking about here is pretty ??? to me

Ah I see. Where I don't know or have the mechanical information to directly counter the wagon as of yet. I do think they are Town from what I have read, and thus for this current moment I would rather any wagon apart from them.

scorpious claimed mailman day one
claimed sent message to me
i did not receive said message
scorpious either lying or roleblocked

Why would they claim that if they, as scum, knows they did not.

have to claim to have sent it to someone? because claimed the role the day before

and pooky was talking about a mafia ascetic during day one

so it seems possible they were trying to frame me as ascetic

by killing pooky to lend weight to theory and claiming sent to me and i didn’t get it

but kittytacky targeted me with friendly neighbour

thus proving ascetic thing impossible

and i think that’s most of the mechanical stuff yeah

Scum wouldn't 1 for 1 this early in the game. Nor would they probably ever do so at all, it benefits Town massively. Any 1 for 1 that is not in LyLo is in towns favour almost completely, even if that is with a Town PR.

[JacksonVirgo]

Because they have a history of bad/good claims

Could you clarify further

[JacksonVirgo]

I refuse to believe that they are so foolish, and that it got allowed by the rest of the mafia, that they thought that fake-claiming a mailman to get you eliminated from framing you as ascetic, which wouldn't even incriminate you alone. The claim is very likely real irregardless of alignment or fake irregardless. From what I have seen, I do not think that they are scum just from this mechanical information.

If it's fake, I believe it to be even more likely from Town than if they were scum irregardless of it being a completely flawed play from what I see.

[JacksonVirgo]

Gerain jesus. Next person to not spoil a large post is gonna have to pay real estate on it.

[JacksonVirgo]

scorpious was already suspected day one that’s why they had already claimed mailman and such

like they’d just be trying to continuously buy days with potential upside of eliminating me and such

after you’ve read game later we can discuss this further if you still feel the same way but it seems like it would not be an approach scum wouldn’t take to me at all

If they were suspected and thus claimed a PR role to protect themselves, why would they pick such a confirmable and thus incriminatory role to fake-claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

It would be much more reasonable to conclude scum has a roleblocker that wanted to incriminate them since they claimed prior to doing their action and would thus be prime time wagon material

[JacksonVirgo]

It would be much more reasonable to conclude scum has a roleblocker that wanted to incriminate them since they claimed prior to doing their action and would thus be prime time wagon material

yes that is the other possibility as i have already said

"the other possibility"

It's by far the most likely possibility.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson, I have no idea why you, having only read 10 pages, are fighting so many other players so hard and giving a player so much the benefit of thr doubt

Why would I not try when the person I believe to be Town is going to be eliminated? I was just fed more information which I also wanted to add my two cents on, which happened to back up my read to an extent.

I feel being an isolated party in the sense of not knowing context possibly removes a lot of the mid-game biases. Which I think is a pretty beneficial position for me to be in, I will catch up though and thus add my updated opinions but until that time comes this is what you are getting.

[JacksonVirgo]

It would be much more reasonable to conclude scum has a roleblocker that wanted to incriminate them since they claimed prior to doing their action and would thus be prime time wagon material

yes that is the other possibility as i have already said

"the other possibility"

It's by far the most likely possibility.

i disagree

How so?

Scum would not claim a role that is going to be immediately disproven the next day, and thus it would not happen meaning that the claim itself is real, at least regarding the mailman aspect. If scum!scorp wanted to claim Mailman and get away with it, they would have killed you last night to hide that missing ability without resulting to the less likely roleblock and even less likely ascetic target/frame.

If they wanted to take you down with them, they would have claimed an investigative role that red-checked you. Claiming a mailman that action failed does not align with framing you, as it wouldn't no matter which way you look at it. Therefore, why would they claim mailman here as scum if they were not. It doesn't make any sense as to why they would claim that in the position they were in.

Explain to me how a scum claiming a mailman without being a mailman is ever a decision that happens.

[JacksonVirgo]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

No, stop assuming that me catching up has anything to do with me calling out flawed logic that has been given to me.

[JacksonVirgo]

gerain is likely scum here if Scorp is town.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh hi enchant.

[JacksonVirgo]

What an entrance :O

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't misunderstand me, I am all for getting rid of scum, if you can convince me that they are scum I will have no issues with having them dead. Just as it stands I think the wagon is biased and is looking over the fact that the claim is not mechanical reason to eliminate them. I will now respond to your post.

they couldn’t claim an investigative role to take me down because they had already claimed mailman

And why would they claim Mailman of all roles, if they knew they would not live the following day because of it?

it seems possible to me that they were trying to take me down with it the next day though based on how it played out

Why would they have claimed Mailman if they wanted to take you down?

like you do not know the actual sequence of events here and are claiming i think scorpious was trying to take me down with mailman from the beginning and saying that doesn’t make sense when… that isn’t what i even think might have happened??

This is a fair statement, I cannot refute but I also believe I do not need to necessarily know the sequence. From what you are telling me, it's fairly likely that they are Town alongside my previous read on them being scummy in a townie way I am fairly sure they are Town.

to live extra days is why claim mailman

Mailman is not a role to claim when you want to live an extra few days. It's not a fake-claim unless you have that ability, it's just not what would happen. This is coming from years of mafia experience, it just wouldn't happen and if it does. They played wrong.

like it’s not super complicated

they already lived through day one and you’re arguing they should live through day two with no message or anything

so if mafia the claim would be working yes ?

so why do you think would be a terrible claim???

I don't think I have to explain as to why it's a terrible claim. Literally any role would be better than Mailman to live a few days, unless they were planning on taking you down in a VERY specific plan Mailman is one of the worst claims they could have done. A Cop is a way to almost guarantee to live another day or two, and also be able to take you down. Doctor or another form of role is even better. Mailman, never an option unless again they have that ability.

[JacksonVirgo]

So, i read whole game in these 2 minutes.

That's not lie.
Also, what we doing?

Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

As i said, most likely claim is truth.

It just doesn't prove anything and not useful.

I think our entry has our views less clouded.

[JacksonVirgo]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

Sorry for prolonged absence - surprisingly busy couple of days. I'm still reading through the past 10 pages or so, but this post is an incredibly, incredibly weird one for Geraint given they told Jackson most of day 1 is useless, and given they have said they inherently believe themselves most of day 1 tends to be useless. This feels a bit like potential mafia frustration since Jackson's slot went from being confrontational with Scorpious to now TR'ing him. Note Gera - as with basically all of their play - doesn't actually engage with the content of Jackson's posts, instead they attack them for a reason entirely inconsistent with their own play.

I see a few others cottoned onto this and geraint now a potential candidate for elimination - post 2192 stinks as well.

Especially given post 2027, where Jackson is explicitly told by geraint not to bother reading most of the game because it's pointless. Why the sudden shift in tone? Makes sense that it'd be mafia frustration coming through.

You raise decent points here

[JacksonVirgo]

ye

if whoever's town and outstanding could just vote scorpious here it'd be appreciated

can just blame me again for it if it goes wrong

but i really do feel pretty strongly that it is best elimination

and maybe i do not have it in me so much to really fight for it here if necessary

and i am worried about enchant and jacksonvirgo votes coming in on geraintm here based on their previous comments

and yeah

Is angela scum here?

[JacksonVirgo]

I left my laptop at home on my weekend out. My weekend is mon/tue and I hatr mobile posting so Ill judt read shit until I see something of worth to reply to

[JacksonVirgo]

I forget where my vote is.

[JacksonVirgo]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

Sorry for prolonged absence - surprisingly busy couple of days. I'm still reading through the past 10 pages or so, but this post is an incredibly, incredibly weird one for Geraint given they told Jackson most of day 1 is useless, and given they have said they inherently believe themselves most of day 1 tends to be useless. This feels a bit like potential mafia frustration since Jackson's slot went from being confrontational with Scorpious to now TR'ing him. Note Gera - as with basically all of their play - doesn't actually engage with the content of Jackson's posts, instead they attack them for a reason entirely inconsistent with their own play.

I see a few others cottoned onto this and geraint now a potential candidate for elimination - post 2192 stinks as well.

Especially given post 2027, where Jackson is explicitly told by geraint not to bother reading most of the game because it's pointless. Why the sudden shift in tone? Makes sense that it'd be mafia frustration coming through.

You raise decent points here

It's not inconsistent reasoning though so the points are flawed.

Elaborate further

[JacksonVirgo]

If Scorp is scum then the team is most likely Scorp/Andres/STD.

You don’t put weight on me almost full pushing them as town as a scum partner thing?

[JacksonVirgo]

jacksonvirgo not giving me much faith either

Fancy how you say this right after I start twisting against you. Scum have more reason to want to kill a PR than Town does and you and gerain are both hopelessly biased and unbudging.

Constantly saying I should also catch up fully rather than counter my argument’s.

[JacksonVirgo]

jacksonvirgo not giving me much faith either

Fancy how you say this right after I start twisting against you. Scum have more reason to want to kill a PR than Town does and you and gerain are both hopelessly biased and unbudging.

Constantly saying I should also catch up fully rather than counter my argument’s.

?????

you started twisting against me right after i said i was worried about you and your vote

like ?????

why should i be budging though

that is what i still do not understand

like you keep saying should be budging but that is based entirely on stuff i disagree with and you haven't said anything that has made me feel differently about it or anything that i hadn't already been thinking about before you arrived

i asked you to read the game because you were just not understanding the context for the conversation you were having with me

Where did I say you should be budging. The only reference to that word is my last few posts.

I think the mechanical reasoning to their SR is inherently flawed.

[JacksonVirgo]

jacksonvirgo not giving me much faith either

Fancy how you say this right after I start twisting against you. Scum have more reason to want to kill a PR than Town does and you and gerain are both hopelessly biased and unbudging.

Constantly saying I should also catch up fully rather than counter my argument’s.

Oh noooooo

What we will do without mailman!

We cannot... We... We... Hmmmm.

good

and also!!!

if scum had great reason to want to kill a pr

they could have killed the claimed mailman last night

lol

and yet jacksonvirgo thinks scum would want to kill the mailman

and does not think the mailman is mafia

because

???

I believe Mafia to be wanting to eliminate them today. Not Nk them

[JacksonVirgo]

Where did I say you should be budging. The only reference to that word is my last few posts.

I think the mechanical reasoning to their SR is inherently flawed.

you noted me as being 'unbudging'

which is maybe accurate though not like, 'would not budge' but rather currently do not think it would be correct to do so

but if you do not think i should be budging, then why even say it

I think you wont bcuz ur scum

[JacksonVirgo]

No idea where you springed Rathe from.

I don’t think you and gerain are paired. You seem to align too much for that, unless you both are pushing the exact agenda super hard which I doubt.

[JacksonVirgo]

and it just so happens the confirmed town is the other person voting scorpious right now?

You think just because someone may br confirmed means they are right? Are you for real? :lol:

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe Mafia to be wanting to eliminate them today. Not Nk them

if mafia roleblocked they would be wanting town to eliminate the mailman today

not do so themselfs unless could not otherwise push it over

which i've been thinking about and then this leads to the question

but where have they been exactly if scorpious is town

If you are assuming scum wouldn’t push that if and when they planned their night action accordingly, you are a fool.

[JacksonVirgo]

No idea where you springed Rathe from.

I don’t think you and gerain are paired. You seem to align too much for that, unless you both are pushing the exact agenda super hard which I doubt.

rathe is voting scorpious

ah convenient that i can be town now so you can vote geraintm and then it would have to be me if geraintm green and one of us mafia to you

......

And? I never said you can be town quit takkng my words out of context

[JacksonVirgo]

My read is at least one of you and gerain are scum.
And Scorp is town, and even if they aren’t they are not caught by the actions today.

[JacksonVirgo]

and it just so happens the confirmed town is the other person voting scorpious right now?

You think just because someone may br confirmed means they are right? Are you for real? :lol:

no i think it's ??? that you think i am mafia for no reason other than my voting scorpious

and one of the others voting scorpious is the confirmed town

like how would that be the sole thing that makes me potentially mafia while ignoring everything else i've said or done this game

when you know confirmed town is also doing so

like your process here seems questionable at best

I think you are scum for deeper reaons than you just voting scorp, thats a strawmans argument.

I think scorp is being set up, and of course that would meld with scum pushing that. I could go into more detail but I would need a keyboard I never wanted to peg my phone down the hall more than I have now.

[JacksonVirgo]

No idea where you springed Rathe from.

I don’t think you and gerain are paired. You seem to align too much for that, unless you both are pushing the exact agenda super hard which I doubt.

rathe is voting scorpious

ah convenient that i can be town now so you can vote geraintm and then it would have to be me if geraintm green and one of us mafia to you

......

And? I never said you can be town quit takkng my words out of context

you just said only one of us mafia to you so????????

what else would that mean exactly? other than i can be town if geraintm mafia and vice versa to you

I said it was unlikely you are paired, not impossible. I am also aware that reads are fluid, I am not biased as you seem to be which would blind tunnel and ignore all opposing logic.

[JacksonVirgo]

My read is at least one of you and gerain are scum.
And Scorp is town, and even if they aren’t they are not caught by the actions today.

okay but why am i potentially mafia?

and also it still feels like

the entire purpose of this whole thing

is for you to vote geraintm

which i was afraid of you doing

before you even arrived

anyway

enchant are you still around?

The only purposes I have is not killing town whilst killing scum. I do not care if its you or gerain dead today, both are equally likely scum from where I am currently standing.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you are scum for deeper reaons than you just voting scorp, thats a strawmans argument.

I think scorp is being set up, and of course that would meld with scum pushing that. I could go into more detail but I would need a keyboard I never wanted to peg my phone down the hall more than I have now.

...

that's the extent of the reasons i am aware of you having at the very least, you haven't shared the others

like there isn't any reason i would go about doing so in this way if i were scum here;

like i am aware of the possibility that scorpious is being set up as i have said many times, i still don't see why that would be more likely than scorpious being mafia here

I have explained why it is extremely likely that they are mailman irregardless of alignment, if they were scum it would require a town roleblocker, in which would not have happened, or a scum one. This be default assigns them as more likely town mechanically and the fact that they were not NKed at night pins the scum agenda as wanting to eliminate them, or they would be dead.

This fact again assigns the role of scum pushing them today, and the push was seemingly stupidly easy until I popped in meaning there was absolute no reason for scum to NOT push it. As the sole, at the time, anti-scorpwagon player it was no reaskn for scum to back out so they stayed. Meaning scum is pushing them, you and gerain have both overlooked all of my logic and when you couldn’t counter it further you both miscredit it by pushjbh me to read the game which is both not needed for this type of situation and also a double down to discredit my reads.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have explained why it is extremely likely that they are mailman irregardless of alignment, if they were scum it would require a town roleblocker, in which would not have happened, or a scum one. This be default assigns them as more likely town mechanically and the fact that they were not NKed at night pins the scum agenda as wanting to eliminate them, or they would be dead.

This fact again assigns the role of scum pushing them today, and the push was seemingly stupidly easy until I popped in meaning there was absolute no reason for scum to NOT push it. As the sole, at the time, anti-scorpwagon player it was no reaskn for scum to back out so they stayed. Meaning scum is pushing them, you and gerain have both overlooked all of my logic and when you couldn’t counter it further you both miscredit it by pushjbh me to read the game which is both not needed for this type of situation and also a double down to discredit my reads.

??????

i could have pushed scorpious elimination through before you arrived if you think my sole purpose was to do so, like this doesn't even make any sense

You think this is a valid counter argument? You are again overlooking all of my logic almost in entirety

[JacksonVirgo]

also i disagreed with your logic as i've said many times,

i don't understand what you're even trying to say i overlooked, i certainly read your posts

When I say overlook I mean you completely set iy aside to throw a counter argument at a thing I never even really said or that isn’t my points.

Apologies if you understood wrong because of that.

But irregardless, you just say you disagree with the likelihood of one outcome rather than explain why you say its context. Which is not a valid counter argument, if it were/is you should quote what is necessary.

The logic for me is almost indisputable that they are Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have explained why it is extremely likely that they are mailman irregardless of alignment, if they were scum it would require a town roleblocker, in which would not have happened, or a scum one. This be default assigns them as more likely town mechanically and the fact that they were not NKed at night pins the scum agenda as wanting to eliminate them, or they would be dead.

This fact again assigns the role of scum pushing them today, and the push was seemingly stupidly easy until I popped in meaning there was absolute no reason for scum to NOT push it. As the sole, at the time, anti-scorpwagon player it was no reaskn for scum to back out so they stayed. Meaning scum is pushing them, you and gerain have both overlooked all of my logic and when you couldn’t counter it further you both miscredit it by pushjbh me to read the game which is both not needed for this type of situation and also a double down to discredit my reads.

??????

i could have pushed scorpious elimination through before you arrived if you think my sole purpose was to do so, like this doesn't even make any sense

You think this is a valid counter argument? You are again overlooking all of my logic almost in entirety

no i am saying that if you think i am mafia

because i would be keen to eliminate scorpious

and that there would be no reason for scum not to do so because easy

while ignoring the fact that i also suspected scorpious yesterday and how the day begain

then why didn't i just push the wagon through, like, ...

If they claimed PR yesterday there was no way you could have as scum without open claiming scum almost. The only valid way to miselim them is what I already suspect is the likely outcome

[JacksonVirgo]

Suspecting them previously does not mean a thing

[JacksonVirgo]

also i disagreed with your logic as i've said many times,

i don't understand what you're even trying to say i overlooked, i certainly read your posts

When I say overlook I mean you completely set iy aside to throw a counter argument at a thing I never even really said or that isn’t my points.

Apologies if you understood wrong because of that.

But irregardless, you just say you disagree with the likelihood of one outcome rather than explain why you say its context. Which is not a valid counter argument, if it were/is you should quote what is necessary.

The logic for me is almost indisputable that they are Town.

i think your logic is flawed

it is not indisputable they are town to me

and i do not even think it is more likely than not

i said so at the time and i've said so since

that isn't overlooking it

and the counterargument is simply that i disagree, i do not think your conclusion follows from the information we have

like i don't know what you want in terms of a 'valid counter argument' or whatever

i've already talked about how i am not very good at logic or anything

i just don't see how scorpious could be 100% town to you

unless you are mafia, and then you would know i guess, shrug

If you think so, explain why in detail. Convince me.
If you think my logic is flawed, point out what in specific and why.

Just labelling it as wrong does not help a thing.
I also never said they were 100% where did I ever say that, you keep putting words in my mouth.

[JacksonVirgo]

Take my last explanation and pull it apart. Failure to do so by avoiding will be a scum claim to me

[JacksonVirgo]

If they claimed PR yesterday there was no way you could have as scum without open claiming scum almost. The only valid way to miselim them is what I already suspect is the likely outcome

i think i maybe could have pushed scorpious elimination through yesterday and i think i probably should have as i have already said earlier today

and yet i'm still town

like i don't really understand why you think mafias would care so much about a mailman either

as enchant pointed out

1. It’s an easy and almost free elimination.
2. It is a PR

Why would scum not want that

[JacksonVirgo]

Take my last explanation and pull it apart. Failure to do so by avoiding will be a scum claim to me

the conclusion does not follow

that's the flaw as i said

That is not pulling apart nor explaining

[JacksonVirgo]

I also never said they were 100% where did I ever say that, you keep putting words in my mouth.

you just said indisputable????????? like what else would that mean in context

Read again

[JacksonVirgo]

I also never said they were 100% where did I ever say that, you keep putting words in my mouth.

you just said indisputable????????? like what else would that mean in context

Read again

sorry almost indisputable

probably some percentage in the 90s in numbers then

The exact percentage does matter nor can I quantify

[JacksonVirgo]

Take my last explanation and pull it apart. Failure to do so by avoiding will be a scum claim to me

the conclusion does not follow

that's the flaw as i said

That is not pulling apart nor explaining

i do not understand

what you're asking me to do

Ah I see.
The post I explained again the reasoning when you said that I didn’t explain it or whatnot. Take that and quote what you disagree with and why. For example You say you believe the likihood that the claim is fake is higher than a roleblock, why.

[JacksonVirgo]

How Mailman claim even affect attitude for Scorpious?

It's gray claim.

What

[JacksonVirgo]

Take my last explanation and pull it apart. Failure to do so by avoiding will be a scum claim to me

the conclusion does not follow

that's the flaw as i said

That is not pulling apart nor explaining

i do not understand

what you're asking me to do

like the information we have is

scorpious is lying or was roleblocked

and your conclusion is that
scorpious is probably town and was roleblocked

and i do not think that conclusion follows from the information we have

as it seems very possible to me that scum would claim mailman, it also seems possible that mafias are informed,

all of which i've already said

Ill list a few conclusions that have combined to result in my conclusion.

1. Is the claim real? If it was not, they would not have claimed it as a serious claim therefore it has to be real even if they were scum.

2. Since I concluded it was real, where is the message? If they were scum it would specifically require them blocked by a Town role, as the suspicion surrounding the ability has been in the air for so long and nobody clarified their personal influence in blocking it in addition to it being stupid to block them, it is likely not the case this happened. If they are Town there are many reasons, one of which I doubt, scum role that blocked the action maliciously or ascetic. The latter being the one I do not believe to be the case, the former is my conclusion.

3. Why were they not killed if they claim PR? This is the only conclusion that I am less than confident with as it relies on the content of day 1 and the path scum chooses. If scorp was an easy wagon going into N1, it’s an easy continual wagon in D2 if they block their action. This paired with I earlier points makes me conclude that scum wouldn’t claim it if they were not along with their action still failed without influence from a town role. Therefore this being a scum agenda is a very strong possibility

All of these conclusions are hard for me to imagine occurring outside of my conclusions , trust me I tried thinking all the ways.

What points do yoh disagree with then conclusions for and why

[JacksonVirgo]

Just realised I didn’t flesh out point 1 well. Will do so if needed

[JacksonVirgo]

Ill list a few conclusions that have combined to result in my conclusion.

1. Is the claim real? If it was not, they would not have claimed it as a serious claim therefore it has to be real even if they were scum.

2. Since I concluded it was real, where is the message? If they were scum it would specifically require them blocked by a Town role, as the suspicion surrounding the ability has been in the air for so long and nobody clarified their personal influence in blocking it in addition to it being stupid to block them, it is likely not the case this happened. If they are Town there are many reasons, one of which I doubt, scum role that blocked the action maliciously or ascetic. The latter being the one I do not believe to be the case, the former is my conclusion.

3. Why were they not killed if they claim PR? This is the only conclusion that I am less than confident with as it relies on the content of day 1 and the path scum chooses. If scorp was an easy wagon going into N1, it’s an easy continual wagon in D2 if they block their action. This paired with I earlier points makes me conclude that scum wouldn’t claim it if they were not along with their action still failed without influence from a town role. Therefore this being a scum agenda is a very strong possibility

All of these conclusions are hard for me to imagine occurring outside of my conclusions , trust me I tried thinking all the ways.

What points do yoh disagree with then conclusions for and why

1. they have a history of 'out there' claims as many have discussed, also could potentially be informed et cetera, though that wouldn't even be necessary though it would make it weirdly coincidental there was another message role

2. well they could have also not sent it, as has also been discussed, if actually a mafia!mailman, but as i said already that option doesn't seem so likely to me

1. Them just claiming bullshit things would only really work if they have claimed almost instantly confirmable roles as scum in the past. I have only seen BP Cop as an example and thus does not counter the chances for me personally, it is actually one of the reasons I am a bit concerned along with the addition of a FN. But as it stands it does not counter my conclusions well enough for me to change my stance.

2. They would have claimed this was the case as Town, and likely as scum as well. Especially when it would instantly incriminate them by lying, where if they fake claimed tracker, which wouldn’t they would have to fakr their check even if they failed to submit their action. It is also unlikely for scum to miss an action than a Town as there are buddies which can submit for them.

[JacksonVirgo]

also it is hard for me to not feel like you are doing this in this way to prove a point and because i am struggling to understand it

and it does not feel like you are using this to sort me in anyway

Im not trying to prove a point outsidr of try and convince others that they are town.

[JacksonVirgo]

also it is hard for me to not feel like you are doing this in this way to prove a point and because i am struggling to understand it

and it does not feel like you are using this to sort me in anyway

as you could simply ask me the questions regarding if you were trying to sort me or to understand

I am attempting to look aside from me thinking you are scum to attempt to get on the same page

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Is the claim real? If it was not, they would not have claimed it as a serious claim therefore it has to be real even if they were scum.

like at the time they claimed i thought it was likely they were either

a mafia!mailman

or

a town!mailman

you can look back and see me saying so

but now with additional information this seems not as likely to me as lying

Why would they lie? And why is it more likely

[JacksonVirgo]

If Friendly Neibor real, then Mafia!Mailman could exist to imitate this message.

But it's really crazy theory.

i thought maybe this was happening with the friendly neighbour message lol

as i was unable to determine whether the message would look any different

and it caused a whole thing

It would have them mod confirmed as town for the FN and just a messagr for the other. Mailman to fakr FN for town is not why its a role.

[JacksonVirgo]

There's third variant.


No roleblocker.
Scorpio is maf!mailman and simple... Did nothing.

Like, why not.

Already explained this

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Why would they not do an action whrn their life literally would depend on it
2. Scum missing an action but still killing is extremely unlikely

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Them just claiming bullshit things would only really work if they have claimed almost instantly confirmable roles as scum in the past. I have only seen BP Cop as an example and thus does not counter the chances for me personally, it is actually one of the reasons I am a bit concerned along with the addition of a FN. But as it stands it does not counter my conclusions well enough for me to change my stance.

2. They would have claimed this was the case as Town, and likely as scum as well. Especially when it would instantly incriminate them by lying, where if they fake claimed tracker, which wouldn’t they would have to fakr their check even if they failed to submit their action. It is also unlikely for scum to miss an action than a Town as there are buddies which can submit for them.

1. it's not really confirmable in anyway, if you claim it, you can claim a message and then if the person didn't get it then conclusion from sender's point of view is roleblocked or ascetic, which mafia could fake plan on faking easily, et cetera, and even if there is a message it means nothing for alignment, like i still disagree with you saying mailman would be a bad claim for a mafia to make, as i explained earlier, as it seems like an okay to good mafia claim to me,

2. it would have been an intentional no send if it was not sent i think, as part of potential frame of me i've already talked about due to pooky talking about mafia ascetic stuff

1. Why is mailman a good claim for a mafia setup with no mailman? Its one of the worst possible claims.
2. A mailman frame will never happen, because it wouldn’t be a frame. Ascetic isn’t incriminating, and scum that got mailmanned as ascetic would claim as much. It’s not a play that will happen by anyone with a brain. If they planned to frame they would have not claimed mailman or even just retracted it as a joke on the basis that they bullshit claims a lot.

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Why would they not do an action whrn their life literally would depend on it
2. Scum missing an action but still killing is extremely unlikely

because the message doesn't actually confirm anything alignment wise but claiming you sent a message can potentially be used to mafia's advantage

Mafia surviving is much more beneficial that getting them eliminated. Especially early game, they wouldn’t have made such a swingy play for many many reaons which I can’t help but srr you completely overlooking whether that be from bias/tunnel or a scum agenda

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Why would they not do an action whrn their life literally would depend on it
2. Scum missing an action but still killing is extremely unlikely

because the message doesn't actually confirm anything alignment wise but claiming you sent a message can potentially be used to mafia's advantage

Mafia surviving is much more beneficial that getting them eliminated. Especially early game, they wouldn’t have made such a swingy play for many many reaons which I can’t help but srr you completely overlooking whether that be from bias/tunnel or a scum agenda

yes and the mailman claim is alive and you are fighting for them to remain alive partly based on claim and such, that is in fact surviving and nothing that mafia wouldn't potentially suspect might occur when thinking about it,

the only wrench for mafias would be the friendly neighbour

like if you look at beginning of day before i make friendly neighbour public i am being pressured by scorpious pretty heavily while scorpious saying sent me message and such, which i did not get

Scum wouldn’t risk not acting or faking a claim for the chance someone would catch very specific mechanical reasonings and back them up accordingly. If so, they played trash

[JacksonVirgo]

Like worse than trash

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Why is mailman a good claim for a mafia setup with no mailman? Its one of the worst possible claims.
2. A mailman frame will never happen, because it wouldn’t be a frame. Ascetic isn’t incriminating, and scum that got mailmanned as ascetic would claim as much. It’s not a play that will happen by anyone with a brain. If they planned to frame they would have not claimed mailman or even just retracted it as a joke on the basis that they bullshit claims a lot.

1. it isn't a bad claim, it can buy time, it isn't immediately suspect, and because it was claimed always have 'roleblocked' as a fallback,

2. the claim had already occurred before the frame plan would have come into play as i've said multiple times, it would have been simply using the already existing claim to do so, not claiming in order to do so

1. Any claim that isn’t instantly confirmable is better and can buy more time than their claim. So that wasnt the goal to choose that role specifically. RB as a fallback to excuse a ballsy claim likr that never happens when they could do the same with any claim.

2. I know. They could have retracted and played if off as a joke. Also if they didn’t even have an agenda to claim mailman, but did anyway and stuck with it adds to my first point of their claim being real irregardless of alignment.

[JacksonVirgo]

also it's weird that you say it would be 'trash' play when it would be largely working if scorpious is in fact mafia

It’s trash because it’s a bad play. It’s foolish and assumrs too much would happen to be viable, for examplr if Andante never repped out this conceration likely would have never happened and they would be flipped easy

[JacksonVirgo]

Almost half an hour and nero hasn’t hammered smh my smh

[JacksonVirgo]

I’ll hammer here only because I do not see myself convincing anyone else and I want the flip to happen to see which of the sides fell into bias.

VOTE: Scorp

Also I haven’t hammered someone jn a while and want to :p

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh is that game? Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

Fuck me. If this happened twice jn a row woth you as scum I will br so mad in a funny way

[JacksonVirgo]

I will make this joke again and again, before it become too lame.

Oh. Bruh x2

[JacksonVirgo]

Angela and geraintm I bin as town. If it's a red flip then we go for {STD}/{Andres/Jackson} tomorrow I guess.

Save the day i had as suspicious from yesterday (they were the wagon that was werved off onto Not Mafia,the other two you mention yeah.
if scorpious comes back as Green expect me to retreat into the corner with zero confidence :(

Same but reverse

[JacksonVirgo]

Inb4 they be a jester

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually I said you are

definitely

scum out of emotion, and I didn't mean it, but still, you look pretty bad if it's a red flip.

I would think you would be a fool if you wouldn’t at least question it. But of course we have to wait for a flip to make any conclusions

[JacksonVirgo]

Finally..

You scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

If so, curious what exact part of my logic was false

[JacksonVirgo]

Before I get overwritten though. You’re a great group..

Overwritten?

[JacksonVirgo]

I am Vig, i shot KittyTacky because i didn't believe claim.

Are you confirmable going forward?

Imagined missing the joke

[JacksonVirgo]

My logic was only flawed by a missing action. Or by a town blocking them, which was information I saw was unlikely yet happened. I stand by that my logic was sound irregardless of the fact the lower likely actions had occurred

[JacksonVirgo]

My logic was only flawed by a missing action. Or by a town blocking them, which was information I saw was unlikely yet happened. I stand by that my logic was sound irregardless of the fact the lower likely actions had occurred

I’m not even bashing you too hard for that logic. I would say the posts were you were trying to paint your logic as always leading to the inevitable conclusion that Scorpious was Town were bad. But I also criticized one of your predecessors for softly defending Scorpious by bashing the cases, and in retrospect I think that was a legitimate line of inquiry.

I was just stating that for myself really, got too butthurt over a red flip after I did all of that :p

[JacksonVirgo]

More important question.

Why mafia would have Mailmen?

My first thought is traitor.

Eh I don't really think a mailman equates directly to a traitor, but it would be a pretty valid reason for it. Don't think it's worth discussing, as it's all speculatory at this stage

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah well I mean I think you can understand why I feel like you should always be flipped this game so not going to argue to much with you. I think my POE is pretty set and I’ll wait for some other contributions.

A possible reason for a lack of an action, if a mass-claim happens and no roleblockers exist, could be a bus attempt to gain some serious credit. I would personally be looking towards the one they supposedly "tried to frame" for that one.

This is also speculation, so I don't want to discuss this much. At least not follow through with this yet. But I also don't recall saying I feel I should always be flipped, I just think the read on me is valid considering the circumstances.

[JacksonVirgo]

I saw game with two traitors, it was for certain NOT weak.

Traitor is generally 0.5 mafia. It's *usually* added where adding another scum is too strong, yet omitting it is too weak. So I don't think it's "weakening" the mafia by any means if it exists

[JacksonVirgo]

That was meant to quote andres

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah well I mean I think you can understand why I feel like you should always be flipped this game so not going to argue to much with you. I think my POE is pretty set and I’ll wait for some other contributions.

A possible reason for a lack of an action, if a mass-claim happens and no roleblockers exist, could be a bus attempt to gain some serious credit. I would personally be looking towards the one they supposedly "tried to frame" for that one.

This is also speculation, so I don't want to discuss this much. At least not follow through with this yet. But I also don't recall saying I feel I should always be flipped, I just think the read on me is valid considering the circumstances.

???

like it seems more likely to you that i just decided to spend hundreds of posts and massive effort on bussing for some reason than mafia were actually trying to frame me? when i could have just not? and instead put that towards something that would advance our chances of winning if i were mafia? like

…

it seems hard for me to imagine anyone actually reading me/scorpious as potentially mafia/mafia in any situation here

and i now think the frame attempt more likely than town roleblocker

I've done an elaborate bus in the past and won mostly because of it, what stops you from doing the same.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah well I mean I think you can understand why I feel like you should always be flipped this game so not going to argue to much with you. I think my POE is pretty set and I’ll wait for some other contributions.

A possible reason for a lack of an action, if a mass-claim happens and no roleblockers exist, could be a bus attempt to gain some serious credit. I would personally be looking towards the one they supposedly "tried to frame" for that one.

This is also speculation, so I don't want to discuss this much. At least not follow through with this yet. But I also don't recall saying I feel I should always be flipped, I just think the read on me is valid considering the circumstances.

???

like it seems more likely to you that i just decided to spend hundreds of posts and massive effort on bussing for some reason than mafia were actually trying to frame me? when i could have just not? and instead put that towards something that would advance our chances of winning if i were mafia? like

…

it seems hard for me to imagine anyone actually reading me/scorpious as potentially mafia/mafia in any situation here

and i now think the frame attempt more likely than town roleblocker

I've done an elaborate bus in the past and won mostly because of it, what stops you from doing the same.

because it would not be actually beneficial to win percentage for me to have done so here

and i find the percent chance that you could have looked at our interactions and decided that it was potentially theatre incredibly small

Not beneficial my ass, people have you as lock-town. Or at least one person does, and I am sure you're pretty high up for many others.

[JacksonVirgo]

Again, not something I want to push currently no idea why you're hard-defending it.

[JacksonVirgo]

because it doesn’t seem like a thought town would be entertaining here

I think it's fairly obvious that I don't play like a regular Town would, nor do I want to.

[JacksonVirgo]

like having three mafia players alive here would be significantly more beneficial to win percentage

and they have me as locktown because i am town and it wouldn’t make any sense for me not to be

Three mafia with one being probably dead by endgame anyway is not more beneficial than throwing them early to gain omega-cred. And you say that, but that's not why you are "lock-town", because if that's the reason, as would everyone who is Town and thus the game would be already over. Foolish

[JacksonVirgo]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I'm not claiming, neither should Malcom. I vibe with them

[JacksonVirgo]

because it doesn’t seem like a thought town would be entertaining here

I think it's fairly obvious that I don't play like a regular Town would, nor do I want to.

okay but why would town!you think the bus

would be more likely than my being framed?

You weren't being framed, if it was it's you as scum acting towards an agenda. It's never a scum play, because it wouldn't ever frame.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also why specifically mention Town!me, that is kinda useless sitting there but it appears you meant for it to have meaning, can you clarify.

[JacksonVirgo]

like having three mafia players alive here would be significantly more beneficial to win percentage

and they have me as locktown because i am town and it wouldn’t make any sense for me not to be

Three mafia with one being probably dead by endgame anyway is not more beneficial than throwing them early to gain omega-cred. And you say that, but that's not why you are "lock-town", because if that's the reason, as would everyone who is Town and thus the game would be already over. Foolish

i disagree massively and think mafia doing this sort of thing outside of very very highly skilled players (catboi comes to mind) is generally terrible

across the board it doesn’t make any sense for me to be mafia here that’s why they have me as locktown, or at least why the town amongst have me as locktown

The first sentence might actually be valid, my strength in a game is my scum-play personally so it might be that type of thing. However, I do not believe it difficult to bus in fact it's humorously more common than you would expect. I do not see how it wouldn't make sense "across the board", it would almost guarantee that you are positioned in the upper-tiers of the Town unless you are absolutely trash at faking tone, which I would expect was in addition to what you call highly skilled players, but that's not a difficult skill to have. If you have any sense of what you are saying, you'd find it fairly easy to at least mediocrely fake tone when doing theatre.

Do I think you are scum here? Not fully convinced, but I do see the position of you being scum as somewhat more likely than if this situation has occurred without the missing action and your seeming insistent nature to defend your stance that it was a frame. I only thought it worthy to bring this up because I do not see anybody else bringing up this possibility given the circumstances.

[JacksonVirgo]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

[JacksonVirgo]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I'm not claiming, neither should Malcom. I vibe with them

ah yes vibe with another player who at the very least has been mafia siding

Define mafia siding.

[JacksonVirgo]

I do not think it's likely that Town would have blocked them particularly, even if Town does have a blocking role. So the only alternatives is a "frame" like you are suggesting, a missing action or it's part of an agenda. As I personally think the possibility that it's a frame is foolish, it's either a missing action which I think is also foolish to count on considering their position so it's an agenda. I do not think the agenda is a frame, because again I've stated I believe this to be a foolish assumption so what are the others.

A bus, likely

[JacksonVirgo]

like having three mafia players alive here would be significantly more beneficial to win percentage

and they have me as locktown because i am town and it wouldn’t make any sense for me not to be

Three mafia with one being probably dead by endgame anyway is not more beneficial than throwing them early to gain omega-cred. And you say that, but that's not why you are "lock-town", because if that's the reason, as would everyone who is Town and thus the game would be already over. Foolish

i disagree massively and think mafia doing this sort of thing outside of very very highly skilled players (catboi comes to mind) is generally terrible

across the board it doesn’t make any sense for me to be mafia here that’s why they have me as locktown, or at least why the town amongst have me as locktown

The first sentence might actually be valid, my strength in a game is my scum-play personally so it might be that type of thing. However, I do not believe it difficult to bus in fact it's humorously more common than you would expect. I do not see how it wouldn't make sense "across the board", it would almost guarantee that you are positioned in the upper-tiers of the Town unless you are absolutely trash at faking tone, which I would expect was in addition to what you call highly skilled players, but that's not a difficult skill to have. If you have any sense of what you are saying, you'd find it fairly easy to at least mediocrely fake tone when doing theatre.

Do I think you are scum here? Not fully convinced, but I do see the position of you being scum as somewhat more likely than if this situation has occurred without the missing action and your seeming insistent nature to defend your stance that it was a frame. I only thought it worthy to bring this up because I do not see anybody else bringing up this possibility given the circumstances.

it is not that bussing is terrible but rather that bussing in ridiculous situations that make no sense to bus in is terrible

like scorpious claimed day one due to pressure i was partly responsible for and it would have just been bussing for bussing’s sake

and! very importantly scorpious is obviously a very strong player why would that ever have been our collective plan here

i am ‘insistent’ because it makes no sense to me that you would believe this

1. Saying that it would be bussing for bussing's sake is omitting the power of a strategic bus.
2. I have no idea how skilled either of you are, let alone does them being skilled have anything to do with it. In fact, you said earlier a very skilled mafia would be the only one to attempt this play so in fact this goes against you.
3. How does it every frame you. Them as mafia as well as being scum-read enough to claim, throwing a frame that you are ascetic which doesn't even incriminate you, does not and never will get you eliminated over them. Thus it isn't a frame, it's suicide for the sake of suicide. Why would mafia just throw one of their pieces out for no reason

[JacksonVirgo]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

no i do not see as it would not make any sense based on play

How so

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you're too close minded to peer into an opposing perspective regarding requesting you to look into my own perspective, especially when it's against yourself, which is fine I guess it's not easy.

[JacksonVirgo]

also kinda think a partial massclaim amongst

jacksonvirgo, malcolmtucker, andresvmb, nero cain and save the dragons

might make sense here

I'm not claiming, neither should Malcom. I vibe with them

ah yes vibe with another player who at the very least has been mafia siding

Define mafia siding.

consistently defending flipped mafia, in this case

I see, yeah I wasn't entirely sure what you meant by that. I mean I also did for what that is worth, so them semi-aligning with my views so openly even when it'd be super easy to just turn on me and get me eliminated is a +1 for them being Town. Especially when just losing one of their partners.

[JacksonVirgo]

And I do not believe it to be scum pocketing me particularly because there is almost zero worth in doing so with my position in the town.

[JacksonVirgo]

1. only this would not have been strategic it would have been anti-win condition
2. no it doesn’t? like scorpious would need to remain alive for scorpious’s skill level to be beneficial to us i don’t get it
3. because they were already under pressure as you just said and because pooky had talked about the possibility of an ascetic and conveniently died in the night

1. It is most definitely not game-throwing, it would prop you into a higher position in the Town. Sacrificing a partner is not inherently game-throwing, nor is it even remotely when you consider the reason it would have happened if you are in fact scum here, which again I am not even willing to vote today I literally only just mentioned it.

2. Skill has almost nothing to do with it, you just replied to my additional addition of your earlier response not the main point.

3. It wouldn't have framed. Ascetic isn't a scum-particular role for starters, plus it wouldn't even have a chance of having you flip before them. It would have been much more beneficial to have a successful action N1 followed by the frame if they wanted to, which still very likely would not even work. I do not believe it to a frame, where you do. That's fine, I just disagree with you and my read on you is in association with that read.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you're too close minded to peer into an opposing perspective regarding requesting you to look into my own perspective, especially when it's against yourself, which is fine I guess it's not easy.

i think it would be more likely my inability to do so rather than ‘close-mindedness’

as i am me and if i could be not me i would happily

hence the lyric quoted in my signature

Close-minded as I define it is probably not as you would define, I just define it as the inability to warp your mind into situations you are not nor even could be in. If you can warp your mind to actually be in the mind of someone that had an experience you cannot have even thought of etc.

Close-mindedness is almost a certain in everyone, if not certain. Just to a different degree than other's. What I said particular is that your particular part of close-mindedness seems to be to put yourself into a pure opposing perspective against yourself. That's all, not attempting to attack you as a person or anything.

[JacksonVirgo]

it’s frame or town roleblocker which seems unlikely

It isn't a frame. Because it wouldn't frame.
Town roleblocker does seem unlikely, do you see why I think it was a bus.

Or at least if you try to pretend to be in my state of mind where I think it's not a frame, ignoring that you disagree, do you see why I think it's too awkward and that a bus attempt is likely. If not by you, than someone else but I think personally you are much more likely than others.

no i do not see as it would not make any sense based on play

How so

because everything i’ve done has been openly in service of town and sure i’ve played terribly here and i ruined day one but it doesn’t feel like there is anything i have done that you think is actually mafia indicative rather that you just want to plant the thought in people’s minds

You claim that, but good scum also do that just in a way that also benefits themselves. Which a bus would also mean, getting scum killed is pro-town but also will get a bussing town to be raised high which is pro-scum.

Pro-Town and Pro-Scum can both occur by the same action.

If you are Town, I don't think you've played terribly, I just have a different perspective than most it seems. If anything it's me playing terribly, assuming you are real. You got scum dead, I fail to see how that's a failure.

[JacksonVirgo]

1. only this would not have been strategic it would have been anti-win condition
2. no it doesn’t? like scorpious would need to remain alive for scorpious’s skill level to be beneficial to us i don’t get it
3. because they were already under pressure as you just said and because pooky had talked about the possibility of an ascetic and conveniently died in the night

1. It is most definitely not game-throwing, it would prop you into a higher position in the Town. Sacrificing a partner is not inherently game-throwing, nor is it even remotely when you consider the reason it would have happened if you are in fact scum here, which again I am not even willing to vote today I literally only just mentioned it.

2. Skill has almost nothing to do with it, you just replied to my additional addition of your earlier response not the main point.

3. It wouldn't have framed. Ascetic isn't a scum-particular role for starters, plus it wouldn't even have a chance of having you flip before them. It would have been much more beneficial to have a successful action N1 followed by the frame if they wanted to, which still very likely would not even work. I do not believe it to a frame, where you do. That's fine, I just disagree with you and my read on you is in association with that read.

1. i would not have done it here and think it would have been extremely negative expected value for me to have done so in this situation i do not know how else to say that

2. it once again feels like you are trying to ‘win’ our conversation not actually sort me or anything

3. right but why does your read ignore everything else?

1. Whether or not you would have done it here has no real bearing as you'd say the same thing as scum. This is a fair response I wont really add anything onto this.

2. I get like that, people tend to hate me for that aha :p

3. What is my read ignoring

[JacksonVirgo]

I would also like to add that it is not you specifically singled out by my logic, I just think you to be the most likely.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would also like to add that it is not you specifically singled out by my logic, I just think you to be the most likely if this were the case and it was an agenda

[JacksonVirgo]

3. my play mostly and the possibility that it was a frame as your reasoning for it not to be seems not really based in this game like it seems like it’s not accounting for the information we have here to me

I acknowledge the possibility of a frame, but I do not think it's likely as I personally think it'd be too foolish to have been done as a frame. For what it's worth, I think you are Town now from your statement about me wanting to "win" this which I don't see coming from scum.

What I still think is that they did not have no action for a specific reason and that isn't for a frame. I will look into the situation surrounding them failing to check you to see interactions with this fresh in my headspace.

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

why would you think you were blocked

because I sent you that message smh..

Are there any scum role what would prevent them from getting a message with no interference?

Well, again. My message explicitly said that me hammering was an accident. Which makes me feel like I was blocked.

That’s my current conflict. Town Angela most undoubtedly has a comment on my message the minute D2 starts.

There are only two options here. She is lying, possible, or she never got it, which means I was blocked..

Neither though explain the blind acceptance of Kitty’s “case” on me .. and in turn the acceptance of town Kitty.

I don’t see anything from Kitty that screams town, unless Again, could be a TMI case

Either the role is accurate, or they’ve engaged in the dumbest fake claim ever. I don’t necessarily think Scorpious is the best player in the game. But do you really think they boxed themselves into a situation where they had to send a message and didn’t have the capability to do so? That just seems way too dumb.

you know they could just be trying to frame me, the recipient, right?

C’mon this is absurd. They frame you, you flip Town, they get executed next most likely. They do not set it up that way in advance. Which is what you’re arguing. They had to claim mailman under pressure in D1. Like this is clearly not a strategy to win the game. Where’s your skepticism?

they have already bought an extra day from the claim due to my brain worms

why would you think mafia trying to buy a second extra day

would not be beneficial to the mafia?

Sigh. Scum don’t buy extra days in this way c’mon. There’s absolutely no guarantee at all that mailman as a claim buys you any additional time, because it’s so useless as a role in a vacuum. I have never seen it employed as a fake claim to save a Scum. It’s a useless role the vast majority of the time.

He once claimed bulletproof cop. I wouldn't put it past him to make bizarre claims.

Besides, angela has little reason to lie about a mailman message if she is scum either! Because she will just get killed the next day is Scorp is town. And angela is way more townie to me than Scorp. I'm parked on Scorp still.

VOTE: Kitty

You are not scum hunting an any way. You're cases on me is ahem: My reaction to your over reaction and a calim I made in a past game. And you have specifically stated you have no plans to hunt any further..

Who's my team then?

let's expand ourselves a little,enough of this TMI crap.

These, to me, conclude that

1. Ascetic was likely not in the eyes of Scorpious when they did this.
2. That they didn't in particular want you dead, as they switched to Kitty fairly easily so it wasn't to frame.

I do have to say, from someone that is scum read every game, and rarely has anything really listened to.

I don’t know how to feel that Andres and Malcom are agreeing with me so freely.. I’m not used to it..

This post in particular I found in their ISO, makes me give andres/malcom +town points. I don't think scum!them would throw them into the dirt like this. At the very least, not together.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah but then you’re ignoring my D1 completely and that doesn’t make sense to me. I was Scorpious’ main focus, and I was aggressive in my pursuit and landed back there almost towards the end of the day when I was trying to avoid a Not_Mafia execution. If you think them harping about my Town % was staged, you could make that argument, but I certainly am not going to let you just paper over all of that by looking at my D2 only.

i am not ignoring it is just that there is heavy weight on the otherside, it's not that i think you are most likely remaining mafia right now or anything, probably 5th or 6th most likely,

and kittytacky also suspected you and am giving weight to their considerations as well

KittyTacky said that JV should be executed if Scorpious flips Scum. That was their main consideration if I’m reading some of the posts at the end of D2 correctly. I also think STD looks quite poor after D1 and how all of that went down (Scorpious being the main focus, and the Scum needing an alternative, momentum was there to execute STD and it didn’t happen, which means that we need to think about that).

If ur saying their death has anything to do with what's happened regarding scorp, you are ignoring the fact that they were confirmed town.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think it’s nonsense that I would be grouped with like JV or STD.

Didn't think I was that bad off that I was done like this lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Not really reading no, just looking at whatever words my eyes gloss over to. I'm quite tired

[JacksonVirgo]

and jacksonvirgo is also refusing to claim anyway, so

I wonder why

[JacksonVirgo]

and jacksonvirgo is also refusing to claim anyway, so

I wonder why

i mean if you're going to claim town roleblocker you can do so now

i dont think jacksonvirgo is mafia it would make more sense for him to bus scorpius not heavily defend him the way he did

hmhmhm

it is like, if mafia,

they only needed one vote though

like when jacksonvirgo is fighting hard against the scorpious elimination there they would need one additional vote on geraintm, assuming geraintm town right

and jacksonvirgo angled almost exactly for that, in a way that did not really feel towny at all,

and but so enchant/nero cain were the only outstanding votes

and then nero said would hammer whoever was voted first

and enchant voted scorpious

and then jacksonvirgo went ahead and hammered before nero cain returned

as it's not like jacksonvirgo could be like, no i'll vote geraintm hammer this one instead! at that point

ya know?

like i guess it feels to me like the heavy defense makes a lot of sense to come from mafia there

Why would scum out themselves like I did just to protect their partner.

[JacksonVirgo]

right and then they could send mailman message and someone get it and say, see confirmed mailman!!!!!!

like if they win battle

ya know?

You're saying it's a frame as the reason for no action, yet considering that they want to use their action to confirm themselves.
What

[JacksonVirgo]

oh i forgot jacksonvirgo hammered forget what i said

I did, got impatient waiting for nero, didn't see another wagon happening, wanted to see the flip.

[JacksonVirgo]

so y defend him so heavy if u were just gonna vote him anyway

Got impatient, wanted to see the flip. I am not a fool, I knew they were going to be hammered by Nero might as well speed up the process. See if my logic was right (main reason I was impatient, got a little bit prideful).

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm against mass claim on d2.

geraintm
MalcolmTucker
Andresvmb
JacksonVirgo
Save The Dragons

is the POE though

Solve by removing me and Malcome. Wham, 2/3 in there

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm against mass claim on d2.

it is currently day three

:dead: :dead:

[JacksonVirgo]

so y defend him so heavy if u were just gonna vote him anyway

Got impatient, wanted to see the flip. I am not a fool, I knew they were going to be hammered by Nero might as well speed up the process. See if my logic was right (main reason I was impatient, got a little bit prideful).

i dont think this is a good explanation u defended him n in no world did it make sense to hammer him

Then you're a fool

[JacksonVirgo]

This is probably scum regardless. I am fairly detached from this game, N_M got killed so I must be N_M v2

VOTE: Save the dragons

OwO

[JacksonVirgo]

If that wasn't hammer. they're at E-1 now

[JacksonVirgo]

Isn't Jackson in the game? I don't see them.in the list of 7 players?

No I am a ghost.

[JacksonVirgo]

I hammered 2/3 scum owo, conftown (jkjkjk)

[JacksonVirgo]

jacksonvirgo clear

or possibly a ninja i guess?

but this seems less likely

I don't think Jackson is any clearer than yesterday, STD was such an obvious elimination that it was probably time for their partner to cut them loose.

Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

jacksonvirgo clear

or possibly a ninja i guess?

but this seems less likely

I don't think Jackson is any clearer than yesterday, STD was such an obvious elimination that it was probably time for their partner to cut them loose.

i do!! but i have information i did not have at that time, so!

Oh, alright. Have I missed something here?

Quite, it appears

[JacksonVirgo]

Considering you believe everyone else to be townie, where would you look now that I am almost fully cleared.

[JacksonVirgo]

Lowkey want this game to end to see what happened to the mailmans action.

[JacksonVirgo]

@angela

, what's your pool at the moment

[JacksonVirgo]

Considering you believe everyone else to be townie, where would you look now that I am almost fully cleared.

but what if i am fake claiming?

mon laferte smoking gif

Why would you fake-claim here? If you're Town, you think I am scum and thus fake-claiming a clear is foolish. If you're scum, you're removing me from the PoE which is also foolish.

[JacksonVirgo]

I guess I have to actually try now

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay time to slack again, thank

[JacksonVirgo]

@angela

, what's your pool at the moment

malcolmtucker, nero cain, x

would probably be my narrowed to three because that’s how many eliminations remain

but x is not particularly helpful here

and i was lazier during the night than i should have been as i knew that i would either be nightkilled or have additional information to work with

but on it now

Malcom now seems to be pretty much forced to twist onto me considering the sheer amount of clears considering the two wagons, seems forced to me.

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you think full-claiming is smart considering there is one evil left? Likely being a Goon.

[JacksonVirgo]

When I say full-claim I meant mass-claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't really get what angie is claiming on you but I guess it doesn't really matter as the last scum could just be in tucker/rathe/andre

tracker

though town power seems really high with cop

My worry is that if town has 2 investigatory roles, seems like I am.missing what scum rolls could balance that?

A full ungated Cop and an ungated Tracker alongside a friendly neighbour and a neighbourizer. Something aint right

[JacksonVirgo]

I claim gated TA :)

[JacksonVirgo]

Traffic Analyst. Sees if a person can do private communication in any form.

[JacksonVirgo]

lots of town power or one of you is lying. vt here.

Well I am double cleared so

[JacksonVirgo]

Guilty on gerain. But they were apparently neighboured so eh

[JacksonVirgo]

Of course I am joking, I am not TA at all

[JacksonVirgo]

Wanted to go with it for the lulz then realised I was probably tracked and that was kinda dumb. Oh well, VT

[JacksonVirgo]

if we eliminated in truthful pool

isn’t game solved though

because geraintm either dies or gets clear?

That's correct, unless you die then he'll be forced to clear the PoE further or force a 1 for 1. If we have 3 miselims.

4 in the pool. Kill one now. Gerain guilties, 1 for 1 them and gerain. If gerain innos. 1 for 1 gerain and the inno.

If the evil is in the clears, it's already game over. No way anybody is going to swing for that.

VOTE: Malcom

[JacksonVirgo]

When I say in the clears, I mean in the non-mechanical "clears"

[JacksonVirgo]

I do apologize for how I've been this game, I haven't really be in the real mood lately to actually read. So I've been going through this game purely through the mechanical information I've been given. Still haven't caught up since past page 10 lmfao. I am not not usually like this I swear aha

[JacksonVirgo]

If there's a protective stay hidden. That is all

[JacksonVirgo]

Acknowledges or concedes aha

[JacksonVirgo]

does everybody believe geraintm claim to be town

Not exactly, I think an ungated cop alongside another TI is fishy.

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE:

Temporary, plus I wanna hammer.

[JacksonVirgo]

Please no votes, before anyone gets eliminated I need to say who I am going to investigate so angela can work with that.
I am open to suggestions on who it should be

Is there benefits over just keeping it hidden?

[JacksonVirgo]

Angela, I want you to check gerain. Gerain you keep your actions hidden.

[JacksonVirgo]

Angela is just as much in the investigative bullshittery as gerain is.

[JacksonVirgo]

I dont personally think scum is in the investigative bullshittery. But just to keep a wide scope.

[JacksonVirgo]

Angela is just as much in the investigative bullshittery as gerain is.

i am not

game is just what i explained

we can probably follow the steps from here

You most definitely are. Why would you not be

[JacksonVirgo]

if malcolmtucker mafia, town wins yay

and if malcolmtucker town

then if geraintm dies in the night
eliminate nero cain
if nero cain mafia, town wins yay
if nero cain town, eliminate rathe, rathe has to be mafia in that situation, so town wins yay

if geraintm does not die in the night
then geraintm returns a result
if geraintm checks outside of nero cain/rathe or claims no result
eliminate geraintm
if geraintm town, then was roleblocked or targeted ascetic, 50/50 between nero cain/rathe, this is only possible non-solved to me, and it is unlikely because it would require another mafia role,

if geraintm returns an innocent,
eliminate the other of the two possibles,
if other is mafia, yay town wins
if other is town, eliminate geraintm, yay town wins

if geraintm returns a guilty,
eliminate the guilty
if mafia, yay town wins
if town, eliminate geraintm, yay town wins

This is assuming that you are Town, which sure I believe as of right now but that's also because I believe the scum to be in Rathe/Nero/Malcom. Gerain is in the PoE because of their claim and yours in combination, and because of that you are also in that.

If you are scum, you're playing well by just shutting out the idea as stupidity but it's not. I don't think so but it'd be smart.

[JacksonVirgo]

You most definitely are. Why would you not be

because it accomplishes nothing other than unsolving a solved game to

like my fake claiming there would have been ridiculous anyway as already discussed

i'm a night 1/2/3 tracker

i tracked scorpious night 1, who did not target anyone,

already claimed this result and will find the post where i said as much so we can just stop with the 'what if angela tho'

i tracked malcolmtucker night 2, who did not target anyone,

i tracked jacksonvirgo night 3, who did not target anyone

That is purely, and I mean purely, just from your own perspective. It is not unsolving a solve, because you could very much be just scum.

Also, why would you track a claimed mailman considering the exact role of what they claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

like my fake claiming there would have been ridiculous anyway as already discussed

It wouldn't be as you can already win as scum even without me as a clear.

[JacksonVirgo]

already claimed this result and will find the post where i said as much so we can just stop with the 'what if angela tho'

Again I'm still fundamentally not getting how we can be unsure whether Kitty is neighbour or not if you received a message informing you of this from them. And if you were uncertain, why the immediate trust for their claim at the start of D2 vs distrust of Scorpious? You both seem to absolutely be trusting Kitty's claim while also admitting there's nothing which says it is definitively town?

a) i do not know they actually sent it, though scorpious did not unless scorpious is also a ninja,
b) already explained that the paranoia creeped in later, and if you go back and read through the day you can see when that happened, as i stated it pretty much immediately after it happened
c) i became uncertain but it still seems notably more likely than not to me

here you go

a) is my claiming my result on scorpious unambiguously

Yeah but why

[JacksonVirgo]

The literal role itself would check it, it's a mailman. That was not a smart check, if real. And yes, yes you could. Are you confirmed town? No, didn't think so.

[JacksonVirgo]

The literal role itself would check it, it's a mailman. That was not a smart check, if real. And yes, yes you could. Are you confirmed town? No, didn't think so.

if you say so, it doesn't matter though, sure it was a bad check then, i can agree if you'd like

to me the game is just solved and it's literally just following the plan

and i don't know what else to do here

other than say

look everyone!!! game solved!!!!!

and then it is like, shrug, just follow plan

like all of my posts from now on are going to be some variant of

follow plan game solved, ya know?

I don't think you realise that it's only solved for you, because you would know your alignment. It is not 100% solved for everybody, including me.

[JacksonVirgo]

and if you don't agree game solved follow plan, then explain why plan bad,

and if why plan bad is 'oh but angela may not be town'

then just ignore your worries about me completely they do not matter because i am town and i would like to win with you here and i do not really wish to have to argue with confirmed town about my own towniness

Solve bad because it isn't a certain solve. Which you are pushing like a child that can only see their own perspective. It's giving me a LOT of pause how manipulative regarding the solve being a full-solve is seeming. You saying that I should just ignore the worries actually is starting to piss me off, why should I not question your towniness when I want to win.

I am not one to get pocketed, and a green-check is one-way. It does not confirm you in the slightest.

[JacksonVirgo]

Like hell am I just going to give a player faith that they are Town

[JacksonVirgo]

i rly think the game ends with malcolm

I do too.

[JacksonVirgo]

As soon as put on E-1 I'll hammer. 3 scum in a row, how epic that'd be.

[JacksonVirgo]

I want to talk to JV. I’ll be back later.

Hi fellow confirmed pal

[JacksonVirgo]

can we just win the game please i don't understand what is happening now

like if either of you still have some issue with me at this point please just talk to me or whatever it is you do to sort someone

otherwise yeah let's just win the game

like geraintm was almost certain i am town, i already had to push to eliminate a mafia that both of you were trying to prevent,

and the game would just look absolutely nothing like this if i were mafia here,

like we eliminate nero cain or rathe

if mafia yay town wins

if town, then the other is mafia

they will nightkill one of you and then predictably say, 'ah i guess it was angela all along' or whatever

and we then we will vote them

and once again, yay town wins

and the only thing that can prevent this is your gathering here

like the mafia can't win the game for the mafia, only town can

and that is exactly what whoever the mafia is here is hoping for as it is their only play

and i am tired and i am frustrated and i would like for the game to be over and i would like for town to win

i don't really understand why it feels so difficult to get us across the finish line here

You don't have to worry, you're confirmed via the kill. I put shade on you yesterday so you wouldn't die over gerain.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait. Ignore that last thing, but I did shade you yesterday so you wouldn't die.

[JacksonVirgo]

if scum was in rathe/nero. Killing gerain was kinda useless. But then again, they were dead regardless.

But why over me and andres who were confirmed.

[JacksonVirgo]

if scum was in rathe/nero. Killing gerain was kinda useless. But then again, they were dead regardless.

But why over me and andres who were confirmed.

hm,

well mafia!rathe would have to always kill geraintm, right?

because otherwise redchecked and even if wins the one v one today would just be eliminated tomorrow,

like there would be no other path forward

and mafia!nero cain would kill geraintm because otherwise rathe is confirmed, like there would be two confirmeds today regardless, because of the check

so for mafia!nero cain it would be weighing having to eliminate angela/geraintm vs having to eliminate angela/rathe to win

so maybe rathe would have more hard incentive to immediately kill geraintm but nero cain also somewhat incentivized and the 'rathe first tho' sort of thing is kinda what i'd expect here from mafia

though i haven't really been spending much time trying to determine which of the two is actually more likely

I believe you to be Town primarily because with gerain alive scum!you would have a reason to throw suspicion on gerain for the "too many TI" case I was forming yesterday. Also gerain alive/dead does not matter if scum is outside of gerain/nero/rathe.
I am waiting for Andres to pop in before I want a hammer.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nero

, please pop in soon I wanna chat with you.

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe you to be Town primarily because with gerain alive scum!you would have a reason to throw suspicion on gerain for the "too many TI" case I was forming yesterday. Also gerain alive/dead does not matter if scum is outside of gerain/nero/rathe.
I am waiting for Andres to pop in before I want a hammer.

well godfather isn't normal and i am town so scums couldn't have been outside of geraintm/nero/rathe

the roles still don't really make complete sense to me but they are what they are and i am very interested to see the role of the final mafia

I am constantly being repulsed by you claiming false logic to seem town. Scum very well could be outside of gerain/nero/rathe.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am constantly being repulsed by you claiming false logic to seem town. Scum very well could be outside of gerain/nero/rathe.

? how could you or andresvmb be scum here?

Again. You could be scum, you did it once again

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Rathe

[JacksonVirgo]

Rathe is the scum here.
Gg

[JacksonVirgo]

while it would be ok if u vote me off

Then proceeds to flail between voting nero and literal no-elim as a consequence to my vote. This isn't Town