Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Aureal]

[Aureal]

VOTE: WhemeStar for

absolutely no reason at all

[Aureal]

hi, i am scum mason.

VOTE: aureal

That definitely sounds like a role which exists and makes total sense and there is nothing strange here at all. Story checks out.

[Aureal]

I'm going to have to figure out what this nightmare thing is at some point, aren't I? Sigh.

[Aureal]

If we're worried about a cult, obviously we just need to yeet Drew.

[Aureal]

I'm guessing that your serious vote is because WhemeStar did confirm, unlike others who were slow to post?

[Aureal]

I have no idea what Rautherdir is trying to say here and I'm starting to wonder if there's really something to the idea that he's trying to muddle things to avoid town getting confirmed innocents from the nightmare.

[Aureal]

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now).

LET'S DO SOMETHING GAME-ADVANCING NOW

but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

Yes that does tend to be how Dragoneater comes across.

I wonder if he's even rolled scum yet.

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

I am not used to this python.

I like it, but not used to it.

I mean we literally speedran the mech and came to the conclusion by like page 8 that we should give BP IC inventions if it's legal and Activated IC if it's not, any further mech talk is literally pointless and shouldn't have been going on for another 5 pages especially because like 75% of the playerlist is lurking because of it and I just want to play the damn game

Guys I think Python might be town.

I dunno why Wheme hasn't said anything other than 'oops I forgot this game existed' and I'm not thrilled with it but what the heck, VOTE: Rautherdir

[Aureal]

I've seen plenty of newbie games hit wagons of 4 faster than this one did.

[Aureal]

Aureal you feel different from Team Mafia, I could be misremembering but you're not as engaged? Am I high on bath salts

It's funny because that's what I've been thinking about you.

[Aureal]

Dragon asked me to explain my Aureal vote in 150. I think just because Aureal hadnt done anything yet and i had a quicker impression of her in team mafia

As in, the game you replaced into a decent way into the day so there was actually a good bit of content to look at by that point?

I think I probably had about two posts there in the first 48 hours?

Second, I completely disagree about Bianco. Their posting is just filled with random, thrown-out-in-the-open comments that serve absolutely no purpose, and a jokey (I guess) vote at a point where serious votes should be made. I read this as scum.

Also I don't believe you about not being a cult leader. Please cult me tonight.

That's not my impression of scum bianco at all though. At least given our team mafia game

(^•ω~^)☆

I agree, not seeing this as Bianco's scum game so far.

[Aureal]

Wait I just realized there are two dragons

And now frantically looking back to see if I accidentally did silly in my reads because of that.

We clearly need to put them in an arena and have them fight to the death to determine the fate of dragons.

[Aureal]

Rat totally groks the cool

[Aureal]

Is... is this really Python, can someone go check and make sure their account didn't get hacked or something because this "stop talking about mech" and "idk they just vibe town" is really confusing me

[Aureal]

Is... is this really Python, can someone go check and make sure their account didn't get hacked or something because this "stop talking about mech" and "idk they just vibe town" is really confusing me

How does this influence your read on us?

-A

Maybe it doesn't, just my confusion levels

[Aureal]

Merlyn's response to sheep is kind of nitpicky do you always vote in exact predictable fashion based on what you've written in previous posts, what if something changes or if you think about it differently later

I guess that's like, something you could say in response to any inconsistency ever. Is voting Abegnation over me scum indictative though ? Just, why?

I voted Abegneation because a bunch of votes, lots of fluff, no towniness, plus questioning why people that do townread them are townreading them sus! Plus, I guess I'm leaning Rauth is a townie who posts filler ? So might as well start there

Hot take: consistency is scum indicative

-A

And here I was thinking of making a SzmarzLeek reference in response to that and you go and beat me to it

[Aureal]

So yeah, I was wondering about that too, if somehow Drew just accrued that many more votes or if it was an ability but there was no way I wanted to go actually try to count the votes

[Aureal]

Oooooh, yeah, the 5-x rule, good point, hmmmmmmmmm

[Aureal]

Now that I think about it, Drew hasn't so much as hinted at wanting to wagon me yet, maybe that's his scum tell

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Aureal]

and like in that game MT was pretty set to already be getting into the nightmare anyways going off votecounts and I'm not really seeing anyone here going "Yeah Drew's gigatown get him in there"

-A

hmm.
i wonder if korina would try to switch things up this game by having that ability be anti-town. it does feel intuitive to do that. maybe mod spec is a bad idea though.

I just went and looked at the last game's roles and woooooooooow.

If that ends up as an anti-town power this time, I hope we get the hammerer ability away from scum at least. That's scary.

Not that it's a great power in town hands, but it's super-yikes on scum.

[Aureal]

Yeah, especially since he was the one with the ability last game. Frame attempt?

[Aureal]

Yeah, I agree. I was staring at it a while being confused because I tend to be really cautious with how much info about my reads I give out, but Rat's lack of concern actually seems pretty unscummy.

[Aureal]

That is actually the conclusion that I just came to as well.

[Aureal]

That is actually the conclusion that I just came to as well.

Which conclusion?

That scum getting to shoot at people who are awarded the invention means more prudence in trying to put only town in the nightmare would be called for if we don't want those people to get shot.

I never had much confidence in being able to pick a large group of town though, I think it's probably best to assume scum will know what's happening there.

[Aureal]

Dragons unite and rain fire upon that which threatens to eat you

Woooooooooooo!!! It's finally happening! I'm so excited!

VOTE: Dragoneater70

[Aureal]

Yours is more jokeys with some one liner reads sprinked in with a side of commenting on players meta. Nothing bad just a vibe of maybe floaty scum to me.

Bahahahaha

I just like, played a game where I replaced in right as Alianna replaced out and like, everyone wanted to kill her slot for pretty much this reason and I spent most of the rest of the game trying to get people to explain why they wanted to yeet the slot so badly and they couldn't and they were wrong, it was town.

[Aureal]

I don't know what to think about DragonEater after reading them. They did correctly identify that I'm using the same meta as Conception where I was scum. However I suppose they missed where someone else identified my meta in that game as my town meta. Not that it means I'm town, I might just be playing to my town meta again when last time that got me eliminated on day 1.

Honestly at this point, the way you talk about your meta is rubbing me the wrong way even more than mech talk shenanigans.

[Aureal]

scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

Awww, how can you rat us out like this, partner?

[Aureal]

oh and also that if non-Town get awarded the invention then it just fails (Since IC is only normal for Town) and that nightkills go through after the invention gets handed out so scum can't kill them when they know in advance who's getting it

?????

Didn't we just have a big to-do about how we shouldn't have talked about whether or not kills are foiled by that invention award? I'm probably misreading but it sounds like you're saying that they are blocked by it, and I think that's inaccurate.

[Aureal]

oh and also that if non-Town get awarded the invention then it just fails (Since IC is only normal for Town) and that nightkills go through after the invention gets handed out so scum can't kill them when they know in advance who's getting it

?????

Didn't we just have a big to-do about how we shouldn't have talked about whether or not kills are foiled by that invention award? I'm probably misreading but it sounds like you're saying that they are blocked by it, and I think that's inaccurate.

We already established NAR would have the invention apply first. Ideally we would have just let scum fuck around and find out, but it's already been said now

Huh. I don't remember anything being said about nar so I must not have been paying even less attention than I thought.

On another note though, I think Kyoko is definitely onto something with Ranger and still haven't figured out why Python is after Kyoko now, I think she's town.

[Aureal]

Hmmmm. What does that make

Drew

, then? Or

Drew

? Can there possibly be that many other factions?

[Aureal]

But does it really count when you're on an alt?

[Aureal]

i don't understand why de70 is getting voted. ranger has a gut feeling and the rest of you are voting there because...why?
i don't think they've done anything scummy so would appreciate if someone would explain.

I'm showing my support for dragonkind in this high-stakes deathmatch. Dragons are friends, not food.

[Aureal]

Oh my gosh, is Drew actually trying to scumread KKFC and Abnegation over whether multiple posts are made or not??? Maybe this is town Drew after all. XD

[Aureal]

If I am town, and I am, then the entire pursuit is pointless and meaningless. The goal of town is to eliminate all threats to them. Regardless of how "weird", regardless of how "strange", the alleged signaling is, if I am town (and I am), then focusing on the supposed signaling is

not furthering the town win condition

.

You've written a bunch of words to justify yourself. Yet none which address the fundamental issue with the push being you're not following it to any of its possible logical conclusions.

I've said I'm town.
I've said I've no information on Doctor Drew whatsoever, and he isn't in my role PM at all.
I've said my puns were me having fun.

You've been focused on this since getting into the game, yet given both my statements and the lack of following the points to the logical conclusion, your push provides no tangible benefit. It's a distraction. It gives something for you to easily appear to give effort to, because putting time into a nothingness point is easy.

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

[Aureal]

I've also put time into sorting Doctor Drew, quite a bit actually.

And to address Python, this is a good bit of why it wasn't reading as mason to me. I suspected

you

were reading it as mason, but even with that in mind I couldn't see it myself. Why would a mason put in so much effort to 'sort' their partner who wasn't in any sort of trouble?

[Aureal]

You never ever in any instances explained the dragon eater read so that's a lie.

70, 557, 558.

How hard was it to LITTERALY WRITE IN CLEAR WORDS I don't have a role interacting with drew and I have no info on him mechanically and that everything I say is based on my reads.

Quite easy, actually.

How hard was it for you to read that when I'd been saying it from the getgo?

When did I not answer you?

It's getting late, this would require me to go through every post I've made and check in relation to yours. Suffice to say, there's examples such as how you ignored 961 among others. To compile a full list would likely take two hours or so. I want to sleep before then. Come Tuesday, I'd be happy to deliver. (Reminder; V/LA Sunday+Monday.)

This Ranger post is definitely scum.

LOOK I DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING MY READ WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Aureal]

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

Before anyone asks, I think multi quote is a step fot tomorrow

Like you think I should use multi quote tomorrow? Or you're going to vote for me tomorrow because I don't use multi-quote at times?

I'm pretty sure Titus was talking about herself there, not you.

LOOK WHAT YOU DID, DREW

NOW EVERYONE IS PARANOID ABOUT MULTIQUOTES

EXCEPT ME

I'M GOING TO KEEP MAKING INDIVIDUAL POSTS LIKE A JERK

HAHAHAHAHA

[Aureal]

there is absolutely no thinking process behind the read, no engagement, not a single question, not a single talk with even other slots about that read of yours.

Actually, I did talk about it. I generally don't repeat points though, so after I talked about it once, I didn't see a need to say the same thing again.

I have a very strong gut scumread on DragonEater70.
This read has no objective reasoning, and even has some doubts to it. Others insist this is him as town, and the votes supporting the wagon are not promising.
Yet the gut read remains. I can't exactly make the gut read magically vanish. It's an inconvenience, yet it's there. I believe he's a good flip. I have no case beyond "trust my gutread", so I don't expect to realistically be followed. This won't stop me from continuing to call him scum, and continuing to provide reasons for my other scumreads.

Its more just a random vote dropped on a typical lhf regardless if he is town or scum.

This I can comment on.

I don't think DragonEater70 fits as low-hanging fruit. In my experience, he's a better player than that.

He's largely absent this game, which isn't ai imo. Still, he can get widely townread fairly easily when town and is far from an easy mislim. Were he actually an easy mislim, then a town player having a strong gut scumread on him, voting him, and dissuading players from voting a town mislim, would likely have gathered more support than it did.

You have been contradicting your drew instance multiple times.

I'm fairly certain those contradictions are called "read evolution".
My stance on Doctor Drew has been clear.
I've no role information about him. This has always been clear from the onset. Your narrative otherwise is yours alone and not reflective of reality.

I initially had a gut townread on him.
I then thought his contributions were closer to his scumgame.
Then, I saw signs of his towngame.
Now, I also believe he's been spewed town (or at least not groupscum) by those I think likely scum.
I maintain it's possible he's 3p, because of the potential red flags I saw. So any alignment flip from him wouldn't surprise me. Town, scum, 3p, all possible. Yet with what I have, I believe he's not scum. He's demonstrating strong signs of being town, and if I had to guess I would say town. Even if 3p, on D1 3p aren't a focus, so as long as he's not groupscum, he's to be treated as town because he's either town or 3p and there's a fairly high chance he's just town.

This is all fairly clear to every player in the game--except apparently, you.

@_@

Whatever you are supposedly trying to say here is not clear to me at all. Don't claim to speak for me.

[Aureal]

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Oh look it's happening again

-A

Exactly my thoughts. XD

[Aureal]

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

What do you mean by this?

I mean what I said. It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious." Which is crap. Because 1) everyone is going to say they're town but some are lying, and 2) townies don't know who all is town so they're gonna push town a lot, analyzing the reasoning for the push is needed.

Also I see a vote count finally.

VOTE: Merlyn - do something interesting!

[Aureal]

Like we can believe Ranger spent time sorting Drew out of the public eye but why did

you

think she was sorting him before it was explained?

Maybe it's after the fact memories since I started thinking about it when you referenced page 34, but I feel like Ranger has spent a significant chunk of her posts going in circles about Drew, like the one I just boggled at. There was a couple posts even before Drew was confirmed, and I feel it only increased afterwards. And I don't know why a mason would do that sort of thing. Surely they'd just stick to a read and not make it confusing as all get out?

[Aureal]

I am only going to read tke Kyoko/Ranger thing if I have to, probably on D2. Right now I don't really think there's a way to tell who's town or not from the argument.

It's pretty simple: Ranger town, Kirigiri sussy baka

Is the crux of your assessment of this situation just that you think Kyoko should push Drew instead of Ranger if she thinks it's a traitor relationship, because Drew is already confirmed for the nightmare?

[Aureal]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how a traitor works?? A Mafia traitor is still Mafia and needs to be eliminated for town to win, right??

[Aureal]

This is not a normal game though. The wiki seems to indicate no certainty whether a traitor would continue on or not if they were the lone scum remaining. So I can readily believe that a townie would be fine going after a scummy possible traitor first.

[Aureal]

If that was your ONLY reason. If you think Ranger is just scummy in addition to the possible traitor signalling (and that's where I am), Drew being green isn't really that helpful for sorting Ranger.

[Aureal]

If that was your ONLY reason. If you think Ranger is just scummy in addition to the possible traitor signalling (and that's where I am), Drew being green isn't really that helpful for sorting Ranger.

What do you think is scummy about Ranger outside the traitor signalling thing?

I think I just made a bunch of posts taking issue with what Ranger was saying. I'm pretty convinced she's responsible for putting Drew in the nightmare, and I don't see why town does that the way it happened, with no discussion, no consensus, and most importantly she herself doesn't even have a strong townread on Drew. Plus I'm getting the same uptight gotta-hold-onto-this-read vibes from her that she had when I played with her before where she was scum, which isn't a lot as it could well just be playstyle but it's icing on top here.

What do you think is scummy about Kyoko? I could see you being suspicious of someone who seemed to be trying to push a mason, but it's clear that isn't the case now. It feels like you haven't re-evaluated since that info became clear.

[Aureal]

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

^
that might implicate kirigiri if true but it's just a theory.

This would be the other possible explanation if Ranger didn't do it. But like, scum are on the ball enough to immediately pick up on Ranger making weird Drew jokes for no reason and decide to set up a frame... and then just sit around for days hoping town picks up on the hints to go after the Ranger/Drew thing? The timing doesn't make sense. Rat started prodding Ranger about it right away but that was just because of the timing and Ranger's view on Drew. If scum wanted heat on Ranger/Drew for it, doesn't it seem like they would point out the supposed crumbing sooner?

[Aureal]

I can assure everyone that unless it is unknown to me, that I am not a savior or lawyer or any of that.

I don't know what Ranger's role is, but whatever their intent is it is independent of my role(again, unless some wackadoo bastard shit).

I

Drew

feel that Ranger is a viable lime today though.

She probably isn't too bad as a lemon as well.

*viable lim

Do you? What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean you would

support

a Ranger elimination? Or just that you think it's possible?

[Aureal]

the stuff I see every time I check the thread makes me think fully reading the last 15 pages isnt worth it

It's the same 3 arguments repeated for 15 pages so yeah you're probably right

oh, fully agreed, but I'm told the solution is to 'do better' sheep

This is also kinda pinging me. I've seen scum Merlyn twice now and she got snippy about being seen as lurky in both games. I'm the only vote on her at this point so it seems a little early to be feeling unfairly pressured, though several others were indicating potential to vote her (and proceed to do so shortly after this, I saw).

[Aureal]

My main stipulation is Not Ranger, and not Rauth. I'd also still prefer we boot out Drew, but no one else really seems to care so I'm probably not getting my way on that one

Yeah, pretty much this exactly. It's kinda scary how much Rat has been on the same page as me this game.

[Aureal]

Hmm, time to play the who on my wagon is scum game I see

At this point (Aureal, Abnegation, usesPython, Radical Rat) seems pretty likely to contain zero scum. I suggest you put effort into looking elsewhere.

[Aureal]

like let's focus in on aureal for fun. aureal has done nothing wolfy to me and I could totally see her as town. but like, I know she's physically capable of being insanely towny. the second she subbed into the last game I played with her, she immediately made posts that were like wow that's some of the most pure in-depth stuff ive read.

OH NO HE'S DOING THIS WEIRD POCKET AGAIN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

srsly wut

I was so insanely towny they would've gotten me miseliminated instead of scumsheep if scum hadn't decided to bus. x_X

sheep isn't playing at all like he did that game so I'm not feeling him scum here at the moment but I dunno where this comes from.

so the fact that she hasn't done that here is like slightly >rand wolf by poe, even if that's an unfair expectation. she also apparently hasn't wolfed before which makes it feel valid to be like "she's wolf struggling to get into the game!” is my best guess rn. I dont rly support her inclusion in the current proposal altho I havent seen why abnegation townreads her

I feel like merlyn fits that “lackluster” description enough as well meh

And yes we went over my lack of proper scum meta already too so I dunno where this comes from. I have precisely one non-ancient scum game and it was multiball. So I have been wolf but have fun trying to figure out my scum meta from that when I was playing 95% the same as I would if town.

[Aureal]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

What os a reinforcive statement?

Any time "town" is said, its amended with stuff like "which I am" - its brute forcing that narrative into peoples minds which is an interesting approach from her.

Interesting in what way exactly? I think I'm on the same page as you here, but it sounds like you have more experience with her than I do.

[Aureal]

Is there anyone you think might be scum so far?

That's a tough question because all I have are gut vibes and gutreads. It's Day 1; I don't have any tangible evidence to start making associations. Typically once Day 2 begins is when I start to find my feet and can better make state of the game terrain. So currently, no, not really. Chances are high that someone I'm reading as Town could be Scum, but that's not saying much. I do have prior experience with Titus on my main, so that one does kind of scare me because it's really hard to tell Scum/Town Titus apart. I'm half-tempted to pressure Merlyn over ignoring my posts but I'm thinking I'd just be spinning me wheels.

This feels like a rather towny response. Scum here more likely feels like they need to come up with a scumread when asked like this. Instead we get forthright acknowledgment that Nurse just doesn't really have any yet. And struggling to come up with much for scumreads sort of seems like where a lot of us are.

[Aureal]

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

^
that might implicate kirigiri if true but it's just a theory.

This would be the other possible explanation if Ranger didn't do it. But like, scum are on the ball enough to immediately pick up on Ranger making weird Drew jokes for no reason and decide to set up a frame... and then just sit around for days hoping town picks up on the hints to go after the Ranger/Drew thing? The timing doesn't make sense. Rat started prodding Ranger about it right away but that was just because of the timing and Ranger's view on Drew. If scum wanted heat on Ranger/Drew for it, doesn't it seem like they would point out the supposed crumbing sooner?

yeah, the timing is what i was going to look at and forgot to.
what i don't get is why those two things are necessarily connected. if anti-town!ranger needs drew in the nightmare or thinks she might want to use that ability on him, making puns about specifically him doesn't seem like a smart idea because it connects them. am i wrong to think that's something that was bound to get read into?

Well that would be where the traitor or somesuch speculation comes in. If they were just regular scum together obviously dropping crumbs is silly, unless they're going for some galaxy-brain convoluted gambit. The crumbs would mean Ranger was wanting Drew to be able to figure out who did it, while not being too obvious to the others who perhaps don't care so much.

People are saying "well it's too obvious" but is it really? It took days for the crumbs to be connected, by Kyoko who was doing catchup. I feel like that's hindsight talking. It's obvious

once you've seen it

but if it was that obvious we'd all have seen it right away without Kyoko needing to point it out. That's why I'm thinking Kyoko town. I don't know why scum would want to point out crumbs that town has missed, except if they were setting up a frame, but I've already talked about how that doesn't seem at all likely.

[Aureal]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

Oh, actually. We need to vote for at least four (because five is the minimum and Drew is already in) but I don't see why we can't do another proposal afterwards to add more people to get to seven. Since we seem to be struggling to get a consensus after the first few consensus townreads, it might be easier to work with that way- get more consensus people confirmed then scrap over the last couple.

[Aureal]

Hmm, time to play the who on my wagon is scum game I see

At this point (Aureal, Abnegation, usesPython, Radical Rat) seems pretty likely to contain zero scum. I suggest you put effort into looking elsewhere.

why do you have to post the exact thing i was going to post?

Because WhAt If wE tWo ArE sCuMpArTnErS!?!?!?

[Aureal]

nvm the nvm this feels pretty performative

Cool, I love being performative.

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

Oh, actually. We need to vote for at least four (because five is the minimum and Drew is already in) but I don't see why we can't do another proposal afterwards to add more people to get to seven. Since we seem to be struggling to get a consensus after the first few consensus townreads, it might be easier to work with that way- get more consensus people confirmed then scrap over the last couple.

I would rather have a 7-8 person proposal get passed through plurality rules just in case scum have a hammerer. Can we just pretend we passed a 5 person proposal without actually doing it?

Hmmm, not a bad point. Having pretend proposals sounds like all sorts of fun chaos. XD

How about if everyone makes a list sorting who they do/don't/maybe support to help figure out who's consensus/viable?

Yes: Radical Rat, Save the Dragons, usesPython, Abnegation, Titus, Kyoko Kirigiri, Aureal
Maybe: Dragoneater70, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Random Nurse, KatyKimFanclub, Flea the Magician, camelCasedSnivy
No: Ranger, Rautherdir, WhemeStar, Merlyn

[Aureal]

How about if everyone makes a list sorting who they do/don't/maybe support to help figure out who's consensus/viable?

Yes: Radical Rat, Save the Dragons, usesPython, Abnegation, Titus, Kyoko Kirigiri, Aureal
Maybe: Dragoneater70, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Random Nurse, KatyKimFanclub, Flea the Magician, camelCasedSnivy
No: Ranger, Rautherdir, WhemeStar, Merlyn

Refusing. This is a roadmap for scum kills.

Hmmm, are you refusing to vote for nightmare participants? Or do you not care whether they're townreads?

[Aureal]

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad

I feel better about Wheme

Realllllly? What's lurkscum gonna do other than play the "boo-hoo I suck" card?

btw 1326 was a real question, I wanna understand where you're coming from.

I mean, I think I've been pretty clear about it. I know Ranger's at least implied much of the same thing. A few people have said it's because you don't seem to be contributing much.

I mean if you wanted that consistent reasoning wheme would be a much better vote, but somehow its only bad when they do it? idk man

Personally, I know nothing about WhemeStar so this could just be normal play as far as I know, but I've played with Merlyn before and I feel like she ought to be able to do more than what we've seen. She gets held to an unfair higher standard. Plus it's somewhat more informative than a Wheme wagon would be.

[Aureal]

There hasn't been any real counterwagon and deadline is drawing near, I've been thinking of doing this already. VOTE: WhemeStar

[Aureal]

HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons, Radical Rat

ugh, i like this proposal better but i think we're pretty much locked into the other one.

I like that lineup much better as well, and would vote it in a second if we had the numbers for it.

I will third a preference for this lineup. I've been trying to calculate preferences based on what people have said since I asked. Python's calculations in 1493 actually don't include my rankings. I'm not sure why Python decided that my rankings shouldn't be counted.

I included Morning Tweet's proposal vote as a point for everyone in it, since she posted since I asked, and didn't do half-points.



That puts Python, Rat, Abnegation, Save the Dragons, and the confirmed Drew in, and the last two spots a four-way tie of 2 points between Aureal, Ranger, Titus, KKFC.

[Aureal]

Okay, I guess that's actually fourth, not third, since two of you are agreeing with Kyoko's proposal, yeah. All of the people on Kyoko's proposal are in the positive range so I feel it's broadly acceptable. It just bumps one of the four tied people for camel instead, who was just one point lower anyhow, and isn't in anyone's NO list, unlike the rest of us who aren't top-three.

There are no hurt tag buttons. Manually typing tags, ugh.

HURT: Kyoko Kirigiri's proposal

[Aureal]

Sure but from Aureals perspective it should have been chronologically impossible for her to conclude you couldn't be masons with Drew due to your effort spent sorting Drew because you didn't publicly do it until after Aureal expressed doubts about you being masons with Drew

Much as I suspect Aureal, my Doctor Drew read visibly shifted in my lists prior to publicly expressing reasons. That's enough to generate "not masons", so if Aureal's scum, it's not for this.

If that was the case then 1178 wouldn't be a thing because she'd be able to point to those shifts as the reasoning instead of assuming phantom memories (which I can believe too but still)

???????

Why the heck am I randomly getting dropped into this conversation? It doesn't seem like you actually have a problem with my admittedly un-thorough explanation, you just said you can believe I would have memories like that, didn't you? Are you just trying to rag on me because I didn't feel like linking specific posts? Have some posts, then: 561, 601, 836, 837. How you could read 836/837 in particular as mason-like seems pretty lol to me, I don't think a mason is likely to jerk their supposed read on their partner around unprompted like that. "My partner is a scumread" next post "nvm I think he's town now". Like, here's the sequence of events that you apparently seem to think involves time travel or something:

You say in 889 to read page 34 (because you think she's mason)
I do so and respond to this in 950 being uncertain why you think she's town because I've picked up that you might think she's mason but I have trouble believing it myself.
Ranger made it clear she's not masons with Drew in 962.
Now that the masonry is explicitly disavowed, I openly say in 1158 that I wasn't reading Ranger as mason.

What exactly is the problem here?? All of these things come after those four posts where Ranger does talk about a read on Drew. Ranger herself thinks she's spent effort trying to explain her read on Drew, that's literally what I respond to in the last post there. Why did we even bring this up again like it's confusing or even had anything to do with your conversation?

[Aureal]

It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious." Which is crap. Because 1) everyone is going to say they're town but some are lying, and 2) townies don't know who all is town so they're gonna push town a lot, analyzing the reasoning for the push is needed.

This is a funny way of agreeing with my own logic as the 'lot of words' explained why I felt the push was suspicious by analyzing the reasoning for the push and concluding Kyoko Kirigiri's push was +scum.

Scum can use the "a lot of words that don't say much" tactic, yes. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that? I think the way you try to twist my words here to make it seem like you're right and I'm agreeing with you is another example of why I think the way you're acting is scummy. That scum could be using a particular tactic like that is generally understood. Whether someone is doing so as scum in a particular instance is a matter everyone is going to have their own opinion on. You think Kyoko's are likely an example. I think yours are likely an example. The fact that we both think scum might use this tactic is not "a funny way of agreeing" with your logic, it's just a fact that we both have this knowledge because we have some experience playing this game called Mafia.

[Aureal]

i don't think that only posting puns = town. i was townreading ranger individually already, but i forget why.

There's a real easy solution to this if you can spare the time.

A real easy solution to remembering why she townread you? You're not peddling some quack substance to enhance memories, are you?

[Aureal]

if she's scum, she's one of the ones I think could successfully leverage a nightmare presence to her advantage.

I'm honored by the respect shown to my scumgame. Given my recent scum neighborhood performance, it's likely warranted. Still, this respect shouldn't deny optimal play. If you think there's a reasonable chance I'm town, then paranoia's no reason to keep me out.

And again here, you feel like you're pushing a narrative. Has Rat been indicating they feel a reasonable chance you're town? A quick iso shows just a few posts earlier they're feeling "iffy" about you and expressing a lot of concern. That doesn't sound like someone who's thinking there's a reasonable chance you're town, but you're coming at this from that angle anyway.

[Aureal]

I have a moral opposition to actually eliminating empty slots without hard evidence. I know it's annoying, and unlikely to change any minds, but the replacement deserves the chance to attempt some kind of defense.

I wouldn't really call Merlyn's slot 'empty' though? She wasn't acting like she was busy or anything, just... not doing much but expressing irritation that people would be suspicious of her.

[Aureal]

Wheme votes bad.

VOTE: Merlyn

you said she had town energy, what changed? were you convinced by python's reaction test?

As I mentioned before, things have changed a bit in regards to my reads.

And I hate this Wheme push.

VC happens and see Merlyn is the main wagon.

Oh No, let's move votes off her.

Puh......lease.

I... am very confused by what you're even trying to do here.

[Aureal]

I have a moral opposition to actually eliminating empty slots without hard evidence. I know it's annoying, and unlikely to change any minds, but the replacement deserves the chance to attempt some kind of defense.

I wouldn't really call Merlyn's slot 'empty' though? She wasn't acting like she was busy or anything, just... not doing much but expressing irritation that people would be suspicious of her.

Empty as in it is not currently occupied by a player.

Yeah, but it was. That's probably about all of what we're going to have to work with. Honestly I think the odds of getting a replacement who's going to jump into a 70-page 19-player game and get serious enough to turn the slot around before deadline are not great.

[Aureal]

Paranoia theory: Drew is a secret hydra

Explains the Drew/

Drew

thing and can be done with a PT + a post restriction that forces him to post what's said there

Huh.

That actually almost makes too much sense.

[Aureal]

Liking my Wheme vote more and more.

[Aureal]

And I hate this Wheme push.

Can somebody explain it to me? Is everyone suddenly voting Wheme just because Ranger changed her vote? What's going on?

Lawd no. How did Rat put it, "Ranger voting here is one of my biggest

concerns

about this wagon"? Or at least it might be if I had really even registered that she was on it.

[Aureal]

Sorry for not being here for 6 out of the last 7 days or something, I should be fully back today with no more prods.
I just checked the latest VC, and a whole bunch of people I townread are voting for Merlyn, so time to find out what's up with that.
Will have a short read and then post some more.

Hi I'm the new Merlyn

Hi,

stranger

teammate

new Merlyn!

[Aureal]

You're not suggesting that they both claim there in order to duke out who has cooler power, are you Python?

[Aureal]

I think you're getting waaaay out ahead of yourself there.

Chaining eliminations doesn't ever really seem to be a good idea to me. You never know what the next phase is going to bring.

[Aureal]

CSF, can you let us know how much of the game you've read now?

[Aureal]

I've liked most of his Nightmare suggestions, and though you're right that it's odd he never did much with the Python read, I don't see much point in scum!Snivy holding onto it that long, and also Snivy is a green Pokémon, and green means Town.

What reason would scum!Snivy have to pivot off the Python read? No one (like not even us) was pushing him for it, simple inertia would keep him there

What reason would town Snivy have to pivot off the read?

[Aureal]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

...what time frame are you looking at here?

I distinctly remember voting Wheme (again) after Python did.

[Aureal]

I've liked most of his Nightmare suggestions, and though you're right that it's odd he never did much with the Python read, I don't see much point in scum!Snivy holding onto it that long, and also Snivy is a green Pokémon, and green means Town.

What reason would scum!Snivy have to pivot off the Python read? No one (like not even us) was pushing him for it, simple inertia would keep him there

What reason would town Snivy have to pivot off the read?

^This question is directed more at CSF, btw.

[Aureal]

I'm not sure if I understand your question tbh but I'll try to answer

In general, I don't think town has to pivot their read. Tunneling can come from either alignment. I've seen town tunnel because they were pursuing a genuine read, and I've seen scum shit-tunnel because it allows them to pretend to do something and everyone goes "wow much conviction so town!"

The one sentence scumcase summary is that I don't get the sense that Snivy believes in his reads, and some reads feel fabricated. The lack of a 'pivot' doesn't really factor into it.

But to actually answer your question - one reason to pivot would be that he's scumreading rauth using the same reasoning that python did (1142)

Okay... I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm still not sure why this is something you're making a case on.

Why was Snivy scumreading Python? I think that's a key bit of information that would be needed in order to make the argument that Snivy's Python read should have changed. This feels pretty arbitrary without it. I don't think it's at all a given that someone stating similar thoughts as you on one particular read is going to make you dramatically change your opinion of them, especially pre-flip.

[Aureal]

given deadline unpaused, I'd compromise vote for Wheme but I'd like someone - preferably someone I'm not already townreading - to elaborate on why Wheme is scum over disengaged town

I already indicated earlier that I didn't think highly of this post:

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

I don't think townies are actually very likely to think a lim on them is fine. Basically it gives me vibes like they're going for this defense: "The twin that suggests that they both be killed is the good twin, because the evil twin wouldn't be selfless enough to die to make sure the other one did too. It's like, the oldest trick in the book." /shameless OotS plug

The fact that Wheme posted that, and then sprang to life after they started actually getting a serious wagon like they still want to fend it off, indicates to me that my initial skepticism of their angle was well-justified. Wheme has made nearly twice as many posts in the last few days since the threat of being the flip became serious. They aren't terribly useful posts for the most part, only giving a few reads or thoughts about the game while being more concerned with self-defense. It comes across very much like lurky scum who's making an effort to not be lurky to save themself now that they're at risk, but without giving away too much to avoid spewing info.

[Aureal]

I'm not sure if I understand your question tbh but I'll try to answer

In general, I don't think town has to pivot their read. Tunneling can come from either alignment. I've seen town tunnel because they were pursuing a genuine read, and I've seen scum shit-tunnel because it allows them to pretend to do something and everyone goes "wow much conviction so town!"

The one sentence scumcase summary is that I don't get the sense that Snivy believes in his reads, and some reads feel fabricated. The lack of a 'pivot' doesn't really factor into it.

But to actually answer your question - one reason to pivot would be that he's scumreading rauth using the same reasoning that python did (1142)

Okay... I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm still not sure why this is something you're making a case on.

Why was Snivy scumreading Python? I think that's a key bit of information that would be needed in order to make the argument that Snivy's Python read should have changed. This feels pretty arbitrary without it. I don't think it's at all a given that someone stating similar thoughts as you on one particular read is going to make you dramatically change your opinion of them, especially pre-flip.

I never argued that Snivy's Python should have changed though

Like that's not my case at all

???

What's all the first part of 1831 for, then? That's what I'm getting from it. The 'not actually trying to push on Python despite the scumread' seems like a different argument. And I don't really agree with that take, I think an awful lot of people (including myself) are often not going to feel very able to make a useful push on someone who's widely townread. Especially when it's what appears to be mostly a gut/vibe read, not something you could really get into making a detailed wall analysis over.

[Aureal]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

...what time frame are you looking at here?

I distinctly remember voting Wheme (again) after Python did.

I was looking at when everyone sheeped Ranger and voted wheme. I think it was page 69?

Ohhhh, okay, I think I'm seeing where you're going with this now. There was a wagon forming on Wheme before that, but it started stalling a bit. Then Ranger did seem to renew its energy there.

Then Drew complained about it, and reading his last posts with that in mind, I finally understand what he's trying to say in 1726.

[Aureal]

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.

EBWOP

Btw I tried to do an ISO on Snivy yesterday but it was very half-hearted since I was quite tired. However I did feel that their posts were just meh-town mostly (as in, not obvtown buy there's nothing to make them >rand scum).

Yeah, I just looked at his ISO too and it felt reasonably natural to me. I don't get why this one person not pushing this one read in particular is supposed to stand out so much.

Which means atm my current scumreads which are not just null are apparently not very polular lims for today, so I am unsure what to do next. Maybe tomorrow if I have more motivation I will have a more in depth look at all the people who I null read (and there are quite a few of them, actually). Or maybe I will make a more compelling scumcase against Kyoko or Rauth.
But for real, not feeling the current wagons at all.

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

[Aureal]

I think a lot of his reads didn't change as the game was moving out of RVS (from page 10-30), not just Python. He scumread Python for not giving content early, so why didn't he develop his read after Python started to give more content?

I think it did change some, though? By the time I asked people to give nightmare preferences, he had Python as a maybe, not a scumread.

What's your read on Snivy btw?

Nulltown. I agree that he's present but not pushy about his reads, I just don't really see it as scummy when it seems at least as reasonable for him to just be lacking confidence.

[Aureal]

given deadline unpaused, I'd compromise vote for Wheme but I'd like someone - preferably someone I'm not already townreading - to elaborate on why Wheme is scum over disengaged town

I already indicated earlier that I didn't think highly of this post:

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

I don't think townies are actually very likely to think a lim on them is fine. Basically it gives me vibes like they're going for this defense: "The twin that suggests that they both be killed is the good twin, because the evil twin wouldn't be selfless enough to die to make sure the other one did too. It's like, the oldest trick in the book." /shameless OotS plug

Agreed it feels very anti town to be okay with your own elimination but I think Snivy also said this about himself

Are you referring to 1879? It doesn't really come off the same to include yourself in the pool when you've been an active participant throughout the game and a wagon on you has just kicked off pretty strongly, as opposed to Wheme's comment which occured when there wasn't really any momentum at them and they hadn't really been doing anything.

I can understand your reasoning here about kicking into gear when his own elimination seems possible, but he's voteparked on Ranger which doesn't feel very survivalistic (since that doesn't seem likely to go anywhere) and refused to join a Snivy wagon. Could be in antispew mode ig but that doesn't quite jive with the increased posting rate

Yeah, antispew is pretty much how I'm seeing it. Since they got wagoned for lurking, posting more would seem like it might help duck the wagon, but it might not so they aren't really saying much about others.

[Aureal]

Can we just end the day? I gotta Nightmare to run

So, to make sure I've got this right: you want CSF yeeted here because you think Ranger is scummy and came in to push the Wheme wagon in order to protect her partner CSF. But you don't have any reasoning to provide to support this.

[Aureal]

given deadline unpaused, I'd compromise vote for Wheme but I'd like someone - preferably someone I'm not already townreading - to elaborate on why Wheme is scum over disengaged town

I already indicated earlier that I didn't think highly of this post:

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

I don't think townies are actually very likely to think a lim on them is fine. Basically it gives me vibes like they're going for this defense: "The twin that suggests that they both be killed is the good twin, because the evil twin wouldn't be selfless enough to die to make sure the other one did too. It's like, the oldest trick in the book." /shameless OotS plug

The fact that Wheme posted that, and then sprang to life after they started actually getting a serious wagon like they still want to fend it off, indicates to me that my initial skepticism of their angle was well-justified. Wheme has made nearly twice as many posts in the last few days since the threat of being the flip became serious. They aren't terribly useful posts for the most part, only giving a few reads or thoughts about the game while being more concerned with self-defense. It comes across very much like lurky scum who's making an effort to not be lurky to save themself now that they're at risk, but without giving away too much to avoid spewing info.

This doesn’t make much sense
Would you townread me if I said I was fine with a lim on me and didn’t post at all? Would you townread me if I didn’t defend myself at all?

she just said she thought town was unlikely to think a lim on them was fine (i disagree on that part but that has nothing to do with my point here), so obviously she wouldn't townread you for saying that and then not posting or not defending yourself. i read it as her thinking the first point makes you look scummy and the second one makes you look scummier. i don't know how you get to thinking she would townread you for the first point alone and that response feels a little uncharitable.

Yeah, basically this.

[Aureal]

Uhh, did you quote the wrong post?

I have been adamant the Wheme push is bad and I didn't even mention CSF at all.

And yet that's where your vote is, and you're not doing anything other than grousing for the day to end. What other implication do you think people are going to draw from that?

[Aureal]

You translate 1726 for me, then. It took three days but I thought I finally got it. Guess not! What the heck does it mean?!

[Aureal]

Drew, do you really think that scum are paying so little attention to the wagons on their teammates that they don't get motivated to act until there's a vote count to tell them about the danger of the wagon? Especially players like Ranger and Abnegation, who have been fairly active?

[Aureal]

You made weird posts, disappeared for three days leaving us to wonder what the heck you were talking about, and now you're back dnd wonder why people want to try to find out what you actually think? Did you even see that Python was speculating that you're secretly a hydra because that sequence of posts was so confusing?

Do you think Ranger is responsible for putting you in the nightmare?

[Aureal]

Why would someone who thinks they're basically a cop say things like "a lim on me wouldn't be bad"? Makes me think of this.

[Aureal]

I even quoted it already.

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

[Aureal]

Why would someone who thinks they're basically a cop say things like "a lim on me wouldn't be bad"? Makes me think of this.

I remember him saying this, but isn't it possible he thought his role was only to find cheaters and thus it's kinda useless (at the time)?

I’m Eric I analyze traffic I can target a player and learn if they can communicate with someone outside of game

So I’m pretty sure I’m a cop

These thoughts are in the same post. They simultaneously were thinking the role is pretty much a cop and that it's for outside influence. I'm not sure I can follow that logic, but it's right there that

Wheme

supposedly did.

Seems more likely that a scum buddy just gave them a claim to post and they misread it than something Wheme was thinking all along.

[Aureal]

These thoughts are in the same post. They simultaneously were thinking the role is pretty much a cop and that it's for outside influence. I'm not sure I can follow that logic, but it's right there that

Wheme

supposedly did.

Seems more likely that a scum buddy just gave them a claim to post and they misread it than something Wheme was thinking all along.

Wouldn't a buddy be like 'specifically say this'?

You are making some reeeeaaaalllll leaps here.

Says the person who thinks Alianna got her scum partner to make spam posts so she could get post 1000.

[Aureal]

BTW Drew, if you think that's spin, what do you think of Snivy saying Wheme was trying to get themselves limmed only to be outed?

[Aureal]

Still on this page
viewtopic.php?p=13839249#p13839249

[Aureal]

I don't think Wheme is okay with it, I think they're likely scum who said that because they thought it'd make them look like self-sacrificing town. Not sure why that's a hard idea.

[Aureal]

why are you not advocating massclaim then?

That's just what I was gonna say.

Fine, I guess you can steal the thoughts from my head

this

time.

[Aureal]

...
Right when I think we're getting somewhere, and this happens.

I have a hard time believing Wheme genuinely thought he was hammered here, like. Several of the unvotes were while he was still here talking about the claim. Surely he should have known he wasn't at E-1 anymore, at the very least

Yup, it was pretty fake.

[Aureal]

You think fast wagons are more likely scum driven?

[Aureal]

You think fast wagons are more likely scum driven?

I brought it up asking if I should think anything of it and nobody responded so I made my own judgement

So when you asked that, what you meant was "I think fast wagons are scum motivated but I'm open to other opinions if someone feels like disputing my opinion which I didn't even give"? That's... An interesting debate tactic.

[Aureal]

stop tryin to question snivy theyre town

This is a really fake reaction. Why would town not want townies to talk to each other? Why would town be so confident in this read?

[Aureal]

Uh huh. Define 'weird'.

[Aureal]

I guess that's one way to get time to read, lol.

[Aureal]

Titus being sent for the kill has some interesting/worrying implications?

And what are those implications? She was apparently townread enough to get put in the Nightmare. Over actual town.

Not that I'm bitter about being left out of the cool kids' club in favor of scum or anything.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[Aureal]

something I brought up in nightmare pt:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91156&user_select%5B%5D=37068

this is my completed experience with random nurse. he was a town sub. ridiculously aggressive and immediately tunneling someone and begging for votes on them

idk

just so different here even tho the circumstances are diff

That is kinda different. 9 player game vs. 19 player game is also kinda different though. He was just coming off pretty overwhelmed, and we've seen a couple of town flips now who were much the same.

STD is like, I just dont really like his wheme read. even tho it was right

like my first game with STD I townread him for being waffly and constantly unconfident and stuff lol

and now he's weirdly confidently like wheme is simply town.

Hmm. I don't think that's quite my experience with him. Maybe I'll look into it a bit more.

[Aureal]

Yeah, stuff like this is him being pretty confident about his read. And more instances later on in the game. I definitely know what you mean about being waffly though, I've seen that too. Sometimes you've got reads, sometimes you don't. *shrug*

[Aureal]

Yeah, stuff like this is him being pretty confident about his read. And more instances later on in the game. I definitely know what you mean about being waffly though, I've seen that too. Sometimes you've got reads, sometimes you don't. *shrug*

I was in that game lol and tbh I think cephrir is definitely an exception

but I'll like still sorta take ur word for it I think

Well there's this later on. And I recently played with him and he got pretty confident I was scum. I'll keep poking around though, I'm remembering something else to look into but it's getting late and I keep getting distracted actually reading that other game and Skygazer's antics.

[Aureal]

I am hard town reading Titus, by Kyoko is giving me associative vibes with Titus, I am trying to not put the cart before the horse though.

[Aureal]

Only non-town that might not know about the contents are cult/3p, I think most of it is pretty safe to reveal but we'd rather wait for a certain post to happen first

Secrets are cool
I am patient



*bouncing off walls*

[Aureal]

Kirigiri town

Just for putting out a reasonably supported proposal that didn't have Titus?

[Aureal]

Flea has always been busy and usually fae have catchup posts but there's a reason thats not happening in this game

Simple answer is those are hell on mobile (my laptop is near un-functional now) and I spend forever in catchup mode.

Oof, yeah that would make a difference. I've been using my phone for this a lot more than I did at first and I think it shows in my being much more likely now to make short posts over walls. Like right now.

[Aureal]

Well I guess I didn't have to be patient long.

KK is acting like she received the invention but didn't know what it was. I think this is consistent with what Korina said in 56 if it was awarded to scum. I guess we'll have to flip her to see if it's because she's faking not knowing what it is or is scum not aligned with Titus.

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

[Aureal]

... maybe try reading what I said? Sigh.

[Aureal]

Cult or SK would be scum unaligned with Titus. Multiball technically possible but seems unlikely due to kill count. Also we've got Good Dreams and Evil Dreams so WTF would they be, the Annoying Dreams?

[Aureal]

I received a mason bp role and were not told who are my mason partners nor I was added to a pt. That is literally what happened

By NAR you should have either not have been told about the invention in the first place or have been pm'd about your partners in the invention pm

I don't know that it's relevant but it's a bastard game, mod doesn't have to use NAR.

[Aureal]

I should probably look into this but was Abne TRing Titus/Kirigiri during d1?

Jesus Christ Abnegation reads hella Traitor with her d1 posting

what would be really funny is if the mafia or the masons could recruit the wrong traitor by mistake, but that would break the game lol.

YOUUUUUUU

Yeah I saw that and it made it click right away that she was a double traitor. I couldn't pin down the exact mechanics because Rat apparently thought it would be funny to go along with her and spend the week gaslighting me, their own damn teammate, even it's obviously a terrible idea to let some random person fakeclaim mason.

So I spent the entire damn week screaming both internally and to the apathetic dead thread, trying to work out exactly how Abnegation and Rat had been recruited to a scum team. Trying to figure just how bastardly the setup had to be for the mod to lie and say scum wouldn't be in a masonry when obviously they were, which maybe meant they were culted by DE70 but wouldn't explain why I got killed.

My best guess as far as game balance went was that Abnegation didn't know she was double traitor at first until a mason died, at which point if recruited by both Mafia and mason she corrupted the remaining mason and they both joined the Mafia. And it was just a huge coincidence that she was doing all that traitor signaling to Mafia that you saw and that I died despite there being no reason for me to be targeted.

So my best guess for what was actually going on was that she was Mafia aligned the whole time, and the mod was being quite bastard with the setup and denying it. A bastard game being bastard made more sense than Rat apparently deciding to potentially game throw by allowing a fake mason claim for the lulz.

I was on vacation last week

THIS REALLY MESSED ME UP

[Aureal]

I totally get the frustration, but there was never any game throw potential. If the plan for him to eat the kill happened, the situation would have resolved itself, but even if that didn't happen, I was never going to let the mason claim last in the Nightmare, which I would have insisted I be present for.

I am kinda kicking myself for not catching Abnegation earlier though

There is no way that scum would target Dragoneater the absentee for a nightkill, over any of the many other confirmed Town. There was no benefit to it and huge potential risk.

Any plan that relies on you being alive later to tell people something you said earlier was false is inherently unreliable, especially in a game like this. What if mafia had the hammerer ability again, or a dayvig? You say someone is your mason partner and soon boom! You're not around anymore to dispute it and DE70 is confTown to endgame. The assumption that masons were immune to cult was just a hope, not anything to count on (and Korina's non-answer on that topic was a hint to not disregard the threat). I was racking my brains for ways he could possibly have convinced you guys he was definitely town and thus made you willing to confirm him like this and couldn't come up with any. If he'd Friendly Neighbored one of you he'd be confirmed town, but only at the moment he sent the action, he could be recruited to cult that very same night since a recruit action would process after the FN. And how the hell would he feel confident enough to just announce he's mason without communication with you? A Neighborize seemed more likely since there seemed to be some sort of line of communication between him and you but that obviously doesn't say anything about his alignment, unless it was like a Loyal Announcing Neighborizer that announced the modifier as well (which is not the normal functionality) and again, still cultable. If he had some invention he could use to confirm himself like being given mason there was no source for it since Flea had claimed targeting others, and even if it somehow came from an unclaimed source there was no reason to lie that he was there all along. I literally felt like I was going crazy, so thoroughly were the things I knew to be false being supported by people who I knew

were

on my team.

[Aureal]

scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

Awww, how can you rat us out like this, partner?

You know, this crumb I actually typed out totally unintending for it to be a crumb. I immediately realized what I had done and reworded it, worrying it was too obvious. Then decided it wasn't worth worrying about and was just too perfect and restored it.

[Aureal]

Sorry if I've been coming off excessively harsh. I enjoyed the game a lot; game circumstances and some of my own personal trust issues just didn't mix well towards the end there.

I shouldn't have any redactions (good thing I don't think I'll ever care to do that since I wouldn't be able to point to them here if I did).

[Aureal]

I think I actually was trying to create a sort of fake crumb by replying to Snivy as partner, to create potential confusion if anyone ever realized I was mason and tried to partner-hunt. My actual intentional crumbing of Rat is pretty undisputable, if it were ever to be needed for proof. Then this just came out like that. I just couldn't help it.

[Aureal]

*eyeing unreleased PTs expectantly*

[Aureal]

All because I was believing correctly that Ranger was responsible for putting Drew in the nightmare.