A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

I'm surprised that you're surprised. We do vote right off the bat without reads. This is a bonus lynch with potential extra bonus (or moderate detriment, but still an extra lynch Day 1, which is nice).

VOTE: Starbuck

P-edit: tierce, you're wrong, vigs have a much lower % of hitting scum than lynches, so yeah.

Some players are very good Vigs (or situationally have the potential to Vig better than Lynch percentage).

If we want to choose a policy-Lynchee type of approach, well, usually the players apt to garner serious policy lynch votes are unlikely to use Vig kills to best advantage.

I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.

~Zar

What Benmage said. 1-for-1 Town-for-scum trades are worth it basically by definition.

Choose: Dolorous Edd

Sheeping Cow some. But having thought about sheeping him, the following:

I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

Worriedmuch?

VOTE: Starbuck

But no Choose vote input in that post. For that matter, he's paragraphing musing about Choosing scum? Right, okay. What.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Don't be stupid, you two.

EBWOP: Edd and Tyene, that is.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Okay, so to set a couple of things straight:
It is beneficial to choose scum to be an assassin for the night. Yes, they do get an extra vig kill for the night, but it also means dead scum on Day 1, which would be very good. Them having a vig kill really doesn't mean shit even if it isn't multiball, but people here suggesting that hitting town is the optimal result is fairly stupid, considering the people we lynch probably won't be too likely to hit scum themselves unless we lynch a strong player, which is pretty much like getting scum with the assassin choice and having them suicide on a strong player. Secondly, it's probably best that we choose the assassin first. If we hit scum with the choice, they won't really have all that much reason to continue participating, and so, if they decide to lurk it out, we'll have pretty much a confirmed scum flip to work with and we can make our actual lynch with a little bit more information than we would have before. If they decide to participate and post and things, they will be posting things that will ultimately tie themselves to their partners, so that's also decently beneficial. Meanwhile, town will be posting and still participating and will be in a special place to pressure scum when it's publicly known they have an unstoppable kill to shoot people with.

Starbuck disagreeing with the above viewpoint and voting herself for suicide assassin is town as shit, though, especially after the whole "it should not fall into the hands of scum" deal, and then with the whole early VT claim things... Goddamn.

Regfan and MagnaofIllusion are also decently strong townreads, although I won't explain either for now for reasons.

SS is town thanks to reading too much into the flavor. Don't think he would bring it up as scum.

Ed's probably town, although his vote is in a terrible place.

Unvote

Choose: Minimum

I actually feel better about this vote than I thought I would after my initial skimming. I'll try to get into why after a talk with the other head.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Unchoose, Choose: Minimum

Mod, to clarify, reaching majority on an assassin choice doesn't end the day whereas reaching majority on a lynch does, correct?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Spoiler: Older But Hopefully Still Relevant Stuff

Who said they were sure scum would shoot another scum? I mean, other than Feysal, and he got jumped on for having inside info that it's multiball...

You are frakking scummy. Also, whining about being caught for the 'wrong reasons', plausibly. Consider:

I'm actually really annoyed you said this actually. I'm trying to push for what's catching my eye and what's rubbing me the wrong way, and I get accused of fucking "double bandwagon hopping"? At least if I get accused or attacked of something, let it be partly true, other than just throwing shit in the air.

Uh, yeah. If the accusation is so unconnected to the actual content of your play, why do I see no attempts to question

why

Pandora would be making such accusations and attacks. No attempt to discern alignment? You sound ticked-off that a Townie is reading you as scum despite [what you're doing isn't scummy for you in your mind, so it's pretty unfair].

Pandora

is

pretty damned Town.

The whole “Is this or isn’t this Multiball” and resulting suspicion on multiple players on each side is really pretty bad. Odds are favorable that we are indeed in Multiball but making assumptions of scumminess based on those facts today (voting Feysal for a ‘slip’ for example) is at best bad play.

Thank you thank you thank you okay I'll go reread Minimum. Also apparently Nacho read Minimum some.

Sheeping Cow some.

If you were sheeping Cow why didn’t you vote Minimum? I don’t see the point in sheeping only his Choice and not his normal vote.

It was more 'hrm, there's Cow, the way he's behaving is rubbing me the right way and he's Choosing Edd . . . damned if Edd isn't rubbing me the wrong way'. I already had a vote I thought would be productive for the nonce. More accurate than saying I was sheeping Hascow, perhaps say that my investigation and suspicion of Edd was inspired a bit by Hascow, as I did do some reading on my own into Edd and worked with stuff that I myself found scummy.

---

So, notable things in the avalanche:

I talked with Nacho some, mostly about Minimum. In short, most of what feels off to me is his play towards MoI - Minimum snarkily questions MoI's self-Choose, shores it up by claiming to be investigating MoI's motivation for so doing, and . . . nothing much. A few posts and one sniping response to something MoI said later, the underwhelming conclusion that MoI's claimed reasoning looks okay, whatever. Nah, it's not obvTown of MoI to self-choose. It's odd to ask about the self-Choose and not directly address it as central to your conversation and interaction with MoI. And to say this later:

Believe it or not, I asked you why you self-Chose because I wanted to know why you self-Chose. I wasn't convinced it was a scumtell by any means. It might have been an emo "everyone hates me!" self-Choose. It might have been reaction-fishing. It might have been an attempt to diffuse the momentum against you by doing something to win town cred. I thought it seemed out of character given how much you'd have looked forward to this game (and also given that I'd expect you to be too proud to acquiesce to people calling you a "policy lynch"), so I pressed you on it. How exactly could an explanation from you hurt?

And I dunno why I saw basically none of that in the moment, but saw and continued to see ignoring MoI a lot. This . . .

might

be related to intra-hydra interaction, and it

may

be confirmation bias. But it feels somewhat disingenuous. I read MoI's challenges regarding what the scum motivation for self-Choosing would be as calling Minimum's questioning disingenuous, and Minimum's overall response to MoI - that MoI is likely Town, but repeatedly remarking against MoI and others for possibly implying that MoI's self-Choosing was obvTown. It just. Doesn't work right with me.

Hyperion is indubitably scummy and our vote is going there. VOTE: Hyperion I simply cannot put it in plainer words but that Hyperion is scum. If you need to ask I will line-by-line his contributions without resorting to ALL CAPS RAGE.

But Hyperion is very very scummy. And if he

is

total lynchbait and someone has very useful meta on him, please post or point out where it's been mentioned kthx.

I don't actually have a scumread on Shadow1

Salamance needs a bullet between the eyes. It is known.

StefanB reads scummy, even through the language barrier. Does this make me a bad person?

Will not be analyzing Snowstorm tonight.

Bvoigt pings my gut and will need feeling out soon.

Ta ta.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nah, but he's not caught up with the thread and didn't talk about anyone specific unprompted.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

VOTE:
Hyperion - First of all, read how completely terrible that vote on BBMolla was. Second of all, look how in his catchup posts, he attacks TWO people specifically- one for the vote, and one for the choosing. I'm excited for the replacement so I can push through the lynch harder, but this person is pretty clearly scum and should be lynched now. Could use a few more votes here, but if you all want to be stubborn, that's fine.

CHOOSE:
Shadow - Currently posting scores and scores of bullshit, and is focused mainly on defending himself and instead of scumhunting, insists that he always scumhunts when he's scum in multiball. Which is pretty fucking scummy not only because he's trying to confirm he's town through self meta, but he's trying to say that he's only a non-contributor when he's town, which is lies and lies and lies.

Unchoose, Choose: Shadow

I don't think the Minimum lynch is going through any time soon, and I've seen enough flashes of town where I'm not exactly ready to lynch them today. I also haven't seen many people explain or reinforce minimum reasons lately and no one is asking for them, so that wagon needs to be dissolved or reinforced.

People on their one man crusade wagons should probably start compromising a tiny bit; this long into the game without any actually strong wagons is just pitiful.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Biggest wagon of the game had SEVEN people on it.
Time to step it up a bit.

Shadow at the bottom of the screen, why the hell are you voting Magna?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Shadow - Currently posting scores and scores of bullshit, and is focused mainly on defending himself and instead of scumhunting, insists that he always scumhunts when he's scum in multiball. Which is pretty fucking scummy not only because he's trying to confirm he's town through self meta, but he's trying to say that he's only a non-contributor when he's town, which is lies and lies and lies.

Your reading comprehension is off the charts terrible.

Thank god, because if I read that right, this game would be far too easy for me and Plum to plow through. So set me straight and explain where I got it wrong. Also, voting MoI because he fooled you once as scum is bad. Do better than that, please. Sheep onto a wagon if you need to, just don't do that.

Jal, the most recent couple of posts was Nacho. I currently am leaning scum on SnowStorm but am waiting for Plum to do her ISO of him before making that solid scum. I wouldn't mind switching my vote to him if you switched your choose to Shadow, though (hint hint hint).

Dislike Plum so far. Her targets are all so easy.

I'm going after the easy scum today, yes. Do you know why? Because it's page 23, and the largest wagon we have had isn't even halfway to majority. We aren't going to lynch scum if we can't get a lynch, and there's absolutely no problem in going for the easier to read players before the big fish. (also I am waiting for Plum so we can discuss the more difficult reads, but that's BESIDE THE POINT) And you seem to share my philosophy, no? Do you think Snowstorm is a difficult target?
also is there anything I can do to get you to choose Shadow instead of Feysal? company's better this way.

Mina, I'm not so afraid of a shitty vig shot if shadow is chosen to be the assassin. After he's chosen and before the lynch is reached, he will have plenty of players giving him advice on who to shoot, and I'm sure he will not stubbornly shoot Cow or MoI if we yell at him not to. Luckily it doesn't matter cuz he's scum, so.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

salamence, chillin at the bottom... care to play a game?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Checking in.

I read MoI as town and agree with his early posts regarding Minimum. Same with Lyanna and the latest page of Tierce/MoS. I think the attacks on Starbuck for thinking that Choosing town is correct policy are weak, and there's likely opportunistic scum in there. I'll catch up on everything in the middle later.

Vote: Minimum

Choose: Feysal

this is going to be very, very fun.
can't wait at all, nope.

SALAMENCE:
You trust Feysal's vig choices, but why is he scum?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Just subbed in, anyone wanna give me a general overview of what's happened? Other than that I'll probably re-read and get fully caught up tomorrow.

##Unvote:

##Unchoose:

Yeah, make this easy and tell us who your partners are

Silly. You know who they are.

So why the minimum wagon? I'll ISO later today but I'm about to sleep cause I haven't in like 28 hours or something silly. Cause work.

So this is what they call it when you are caught up fully? Hmm.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Okay, hi, back here again. Two things to say today - everything beyond it and the commentary is dessert:

greenknight is scum.

Bvoigt is scum and needs to die. He should be lynched. If for some reason this proves impossible, he should be Chosen.

Bvoigt puts forth a modestly impressive wordcount. His contributions amount to near zero and the degree to which he cares about contributing is zero.

I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.

Why do you want Starbuck to nameclaim? Until she's in danger of being lynched, it's antitown. If she was at L-1, we'd want to hear her name and flavor, but until then, all it does is give more information to the scum.

He does not follow up on asking about why Staeg wanted Starbuck to nameclaim. He wanted to say something that sounded Townish and was easy to say. He did not care to

evaluate Staeg's motivations

for asking Starbuck this, despite implying that it was suspect on basis of being anti-Town.

His questioning of BBMolla is similarly disingenuous:

What was the purpose of asking this?

What was the purpose of asking

this?

Out of all the posts in this game

Page 1, I know, but it sounded like possible rolefishing. What were you expecting for an answer? "Yes, all the people with alts are using their actual rolenames from the game"?

BBMolla is right. It was a nonentity of an issue to ask about. The few things Bvoigt touched on in his first post of substance in the game included this. Bvoigt wanted to be able to look like he was pursuing rolefishing and look like he was making contributions and asking. Note that the question and response to BBMolla are his only interactions with BBMolla this game. If he were sincerely questioning to determine BBMolla's motivations for his question and thence his alignment, he would not have immediately claimed to be looking for possible rolefishing. Now it's obviously related to the fact that the idea that someone would actually read that post as possible rolefishing is complete BS.

For the moment, though, she's nowhere near being chosen. I just don't see how we can use her nameclaim to help us. Stefan, I don't think it's more dangerous, but it's still additional information for the scum.

VOTE: Salamence

Choose: Feysal

Trying to grab Townpoints by spending time and energy being 'against giving the scum additional information'. This isn't scumhunting or pursuing leads or productively addressing an important topic. It's a side conversation and it's useless. And it is certainly deliberate.

His attacks on Sala are full of crud. They boil down to 'hasn't done anything in this game'. Beside the fact that saying that well describes quite a few more players in the game, including Bvoigt himself:

So, here's why I think Sala is scum:

His first three posts are all useless. He said he was catching up in another thread, and I'm sure that's true. But why bother making those posts at all? They add nothing new to the game. It looks like scum trying to appear helpful and avoid accusations of lurking.

Despite its length, his catchup post really doesn't have a lot of scumhunting IMO. Again, it seems like he's trying to appear helpful, rather than actively looking for the scum as a townie would.

Furthermore, I just noticed that he voted Minimum in his very first post, and has kept that vote there for the entire game, with no explanation AFAIK. @Sala: Why do you think Minimum is scum?

This goes beyond the scumminess of making a case post in order to justify having a read and vote on someone. After having established his vote in a previous post and then, in the above, clearly showing a set decision that Sala is scum, the last bit - the question - is disingenuous. It is not a question in search of an answer - Bvoigt does not anticipate hearing an answer that will inform his read of Sala in new ways. Neither is it a rhetorical question - the point about the longstanding Minimum vote was made the sentence before. It is a question for the sake of filler, for the sake of looking like a hunter and not just a picker-chooser of scumreads, for the sake of variety in his case. It is not an outgrowth of sincere scumhunting.

The irony of you attacking Sala for “going after easy mislynches” in Post 613 is not lost on me. Sala has the biggest VI rep in the game by far.

This too is an important point.

This case reads as contrived to me. Actually, I'm not quite sure why most of the people on the Minimum wagon are voting them. They're still pretty much null to me.

He has not spent any time looking into one of - if not the - most important wagons of the day. He has not tried to get a read on Minimum, who is the suspect pushed most and hardest by MoI, on whom he expressed a scumread.

He continues to accuse Sala of not scumhunting - but it is quite clear that despite some feeble attempts to hide this, Bvoight is certainly scum who is trying to look somewhat involved in the game but who does not care to scumhunt or evaluate the players here. He has three scumreads. Sala for active-lurking. MoI for 'attempting to manufacture a Townread by selfchoosing'. Feysal for thinking Starbuck scummy for having an alien take on the game. He has pushed and cared about - if you care to give it that much credit -

one

of these.

I’d also consider a wagon on Bvoigt for Post 451 as it looks very much like the “Stall out commenting on anything of recent vintage to look active while not being held accountable for being up-to-speed” style posting scum love to use to active-lurk along. Nothing in that post is meaningful (he asks questions about comments on Page 1 which have long been settled, takes three positions that have been more or less long settled and convienently falls on the right side in each, and makes a throwaway fence-sit on a post of mine).

This is complete and utter truth, this post. Bvoigt has done

nothing

but active-lurk. From his first post, which MoI broke down so eloquently, to his last. This wagon MoI would consider? It is happening. This very minute.

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bvoigt

---

Regarding greenknight:

Well, look at what happened since I voted. Pushing the Minimum wagon caused reactions from both heads of the hydra, and also from people defending minimum. This gives us useful content to analyse, and speeds up the process of reaching a consensus on whether the wagon's good or not. So, if we decide the wagon's bad there'll be more time to conside other targets.

And yet note that to the degree that reactions are analyzed it's all fit into the preconceived notion that Greenknight wants to be on the wagon:

Sure she's frustrated... but wouldn't she also be frustrated as scum? I'm sure it's very annoying if you happen to draw scum, feel like you are playing a decent game and someone pulls "not obvtown enough" as evidence against you. I do see with your point about paranoia being a typical town reaction when the attacked player feels the reasons for voting are bad, but I don't see why scum could not also make a "you guys all suck" post.

This is him

arguing against Tyene/Tierce's townread of Mina

. This is someone clinging to a stated read and vote. This is also someone giving out 'reaction test' answers to questions like Pless's.

And there is the oddness MoI pointed out in his post later that if you do think MoI is a good Choice in order to get a town vig as opposed to scum (34), then why question his selfvote.

And this is just plain scummy disingenuous.

So.

Unchoose

Choose Greenknight

Y'all may get some dessert sometime later today.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Greenknight. You continue to be incredibly disingenuous and obvious scum. Just so you know.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Successfully started a Choose wagon on greenknight, have not yet successfully started a lynch wagon on Bvoigt. MoI left the Minimum wagon - something I'd hardly hoped would happen - but not for Bvoigt.

Greenknight now joining Bvoigt wagon and encouraging MoI and SS to do so.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Mostly to note that Greenknight's behavior is confusing me and making me wonder what's up with him and if that says anything about the wagons (answer: quite possibly, but not something I can tell with current info).

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Sorry for low activity the past few days (was hoping Nacho would do some posting, but well).

Kortul, that scumslip you're implying on Shadow is so bad of you it hurts.

Funnily enough, I don't at all think Sala is Town. I would be more than happy with 2 of {Sala, Bvoigt, greenknight} offed today. Would not be especially happy at this point to see Minimum or Feysal offed.

I don't really want to respond to Bvoigt's response to me, but I may do so briefly (to be short about it, I mislike making 'cases' and 'defending cases'. I just said what was necessary to make it clear that Bvoigt is very much deserving of getting lynched). Firstly, let's be serious, Starbuck nameclaiming wouldn't be anti-Town, and spending time painting it like that is just a bid for Townpoints. Lastly, everything else is trying to excuse things and pretty them up. Good for you, but it doesn't change my feelings nor invalidate the observations. So. I shrug in your general direction. Also.

Actually, despite white I just said about DCLXVI, his posts since then have been pretty scummy. This is an interesting quote:

Was just planning on just reading this thread before bed, but this needs a response.

So he wasn't planning to post, but since Regfan called him scum, suddenly he decides it's too important to wait? This pretty clearly shows that to him, defending himself takes priority over scumhunting. Yes, he also called Reg scum in that post, but it was more of an afterthought than anything. (As town, I think defending oneself and scumhunting are both important, but at most, they're equals. Scum, IMO, might place more of a priority on defense.)

Blah blah blah theory-approved talking points blah blah. People are generally more drawn to doing stuff immediately if it's directly regarding them. Trying to paint this as scummy - well. As a move alone it's at best null and bespeaks naivete. In tone, it's framing up DCLXVI. 'Pretty clearly shows that to him, defending himself takes priority over scumhunting' are just very scummy, framey ways of discussing the behavior in question.

EVERYTHING is conspicuously toeing the theory line of Town behavior in bvoigt's explanations. But it all seems to be done out of artifice because no thought is going into what's actually useful and caring about that.

Sala must show up. Dammit.

Also thank you yes Kortul is scum too.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nacho, convince me your Kortul scum-read isn't bullshit.

I'd call Nacho in, but it's my kortul-scum read. Apparently I didn't read MoS' point against him in preview as well as I ought to have, though >.> (it's far from as strong as I read it; somehow I mentally read that as Shadow having a substantial lynch wagon when that's not actually the case, so). And pushing stupid would-be scumslips is at best moderately scummy, sad state of the world. So the strength of read in favor of kortul-scum I expressed in my previous post is considerably greater than it should be, upon reflection. Not convinced he's bleeding Town; just in case I did a brief read of his ISO and had at best mixed feelings. Nacho himself might feel otherwise; I hope to catch him and chat soon.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Four days.
Sorry that I have been less than active, but more important than posting lots of good shit is getting a lynch. So people should start choosing greenknight (or Feysal, even though that lynch is really fucking fucking stupid), and getting more bvoigt or Shadow votes, both are good just ONE OF THEM NEEDS TO BE MADE.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I was sort of hoping that things would sort themselves out so I wouldn't have to do this, but it seems like things aren't going to do it themselves because there are too many people in this game, and that makes me very, very, very sad. But, since it looks like I'm going to sleep through the Labor Day festivities tomorrow, there's nothing that I would rather do more than catch up in this game, right? No. Please excuse later postings (all Nacho because Plum is a more patient, a more tactful, and probably overall a better person than I am at the moment) for slight helping of hate, anger, and rage. Hopefully anger means that I can be properly hyped to deal with all of this. Hopefully.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nice way to twist words, where did I ever say what I do isn't important? Nor did I call myself too scummy to be scum, I merely pointed out that scum don't tend to intentionally act scummy. Seems redundant. Your entire argument is based around a huge discussion you never really responded to. You've contributed less than I have, by and large to the current discussions for that matter. Just because I'm loud and in your face, y u hatin ; ;

This is probably that in your face attitude so many people know and love from Shadow, and what paints him as such obvious, obvious town. Why would scum be so mean? People ask. Why would scum be so stubborn? Well, generally stubbornness in town is regarded as a towntell because it demonstrates people are pursuing their own path, and refuse to be convinced to go any other way by anyone even if it garners them suspicion, which is often disadvantageous for scum. So, before you call this behavior townie, think of what path he's following. Scumreads? Well, he did have two on MoI and Cow, but the only way he decided to pursue said scumreads was by THREATENING TO SHOOT THEM IF HE WAS CHOSEN. Which is pretty much the biggest pot of bullshit I have ever seen and I am really surprised and saddened that anyone let that past them. So no, he's not being stubborn because he thinks he's found scum. No, he's being stubborn in defending himself. The only time he shows a tiny little bit of interest is when someone calls him scum, and that's just scum scum scum scum and people should really stop calling it town. Moving on.

Also I asked the mod and he has given me permission to do this so I'm starting it here, me and a friend are going to start hydraing from this account. He doesn't play here so you wouldn't know him, but he is "Elie" and I am "Shino/ri".

Well this is interesting and I am eager to see it continue. I do not think at all that Shinori would pull something like this as scum (another person whose posting he has to watch), but would probably pull someone in to help find scum with him. Hyperion burn it with fire reads are slowly being replaced with a warm glow of towniness, but I haven't done much past some hardcore skimming lately, so that is susceptible to change.

That's pretty interesting. :p

This is useless as fuck, but I guarantee you won't read this, so whatever. This guy is probably town to people because he's "an easy target", and he's just so far behind in the game he can't possibly be scum. So yeah, not replacing out and instead gracing us with beautiful and insightful posts like this means he's 100% town as fuck.

If he were scum, he'd be trying to look like he's making a real effort. The copy-pasted reads list shows Salamence doesn't really care how he comes across, because he doesn't have anything to fear.

or it shows that he's having trouble coming up with new shit but still wants to make it seem like he's putting in effort, so he brings back his old posting.
lazy people will be lazy, regardless of alignment. there's not such a dedication to your scumteam that it will defeat your natural tendencies, especially when it's probably a pretty big scumteam and you figure that you will probably be lynched anyways.

These are your first few posts and I had made better posts than shit. But I will admit your later play is much better.

All that he did in this post was giggle and hide behind Tierce/Tammy (whichever one she is), then post a bunch of MoS's posts and say this. If Sala thinks that posting quality denotes scumminess, then his not doing shit and being blatant about it should concern him as town. If he sees MoS posting improve later and thinks it's good for redemption, then he shouldn't bring the case up at all. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't bring the case up at all. It's not as gotcha as scumfuck Shadow, but it's still something that warrants attention.

he sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)

I had a bit of a rant earlier. This is what I was referring.

-Dolorous is town. From the posts of hers I skimmed its clear she is active and definitely scum hunting which is good.

nonononononono
no
nonononono
nono
please no

Still lurking, life's busy, will make time tomorrow.

sheep Plum and I, good things usually come from that.

mockingjaye is a breath of fresh posting, thank god for that. In particular, I feel the minimum scumread is something that not a whole lot of people decided to actually explore (instead mostly sheeped), and she's one of the few that has. Plus she's voting shadow (who I saw posted while scrolling down, can't fucking wait), and that's a free pass into the good books from me.

Oh, but the second I go on a long winded rant about why I don't contribute as much and I'm scum. Good catch

As to be expected from the burning beacon of towniness. Cow posts something about him contributing that much, and Shadow, INSTEAD OF USING IT TO CALL COW SCUM, talks about how cow uses his non-contributions to call him scum. Defending himself from a scumread, HMMM.

BBMolla doc slipped, fuck. Might be town, though. Unless he got good scumbuddies, who knows.

Tammy posting on page 35 is kind of townish. And by kind of townish, I mean really townish and thank you Molla for that sexy reaction test.

sort of really finding kortul scum, I see where Plum got it from. As a result, I am very confused why people attack the read ever. Oh well, the mysteries caused by hardcore skimming. AND LOOK LATER KORTUL IN #999 UNVOTING AND NOT DOING SHIT, THIS IS LIKE TEXTBOOK SCUM EATS ROPE.

oh look, shadow's actually pushing his MoI and cow scumreads, interesting. He's just waay more confident that Salamence is scum, for reasons he doesn't really push at all. Cool.

mos and I are on the same level so hard right now it kind of concerns me. maybe amurika has a chance, for once.
regfan, meanwhile... god damnit.

sal replacing out is a good thing.

kortul's #1124 is actually decently townish and I may have to hand that round to Regfan. I maintain there weren't any obvtown signals before this post, though.

saporint hydra is already obvtown, which is pretty cool. DE is also town if I didn't say that before.

Unvote, Vote: Shadow

Unchoose, Choose: DCL

I'm sure Plum won't mind, hopefully.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

also ABR's glorious return is sort of underwhelming, but he gets that benefit of the doubt thing until tomorrow.
for now, sleep.
if I sleep through tomorrow (likely), I will be very angry and probably taking out my anger in this thread, so if you lynch someone before I get back (wink wink), good things will happen. please get it done.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

(By the way, PlumNacho's hop onto Shadow bugged the shit out of me. They made a huge case on bvoigt that singlehandedly started the wagon, don't ever back down from it...but then when Shadow's wagon gains momentum mostly as a counterwagon to bvoigt...without even mentioning bvoigt, they make another big case on Shadow, and hop over? This was when bvoigt hadn't said a single word in his defence. They don't even seem to have a moment of town "Hmm, should I switch wagons? Both of these are good," self-reflection. Just another giant case to persuade people onto Shadow.)

It was a reread that showed a wagon gaining on Shadow (strong scumread), and seriously stagnating on bvoigt (strong scumread). Considering we had all of about three days left, I didn't think it was a good idea to complain about which of my scumreads was getting wagonned harder. What do you think that my motivation for switching onto the Shadow wagon was as scum? Do you think I was bussing my partner and then suddenly decided "nope, not a good idea"?

Don't care much for Shadows claim.

Lynching ScumPlum is still an option.

I'm a little curious how I jumped up in your scumreads so much, especially since you still aren't willing to actually back it up for shit.

Well fuckina

Unvote vote Plum

Scum. Nacho lurks as Scum. Plum made case... coasted. Lets do this.

I lurk as scum and town. I lurk more often as scum, but I lurk as scum and as town. I am active as scum and town.
This game is a special case thanks to hydras galore and no strong wagons being built, so I was slow to get into it. Not lurking now, am I?
Plum never coasted on shit, so I don't even know where that bit is coming from.

Unvote, Vote: bvoigt

[Plums Yo Mamma]

One day, 20 hours.
No time for a new wagon when we have had this much trouble pushing one past 8.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

no reason not to, but still why?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

you have to believe in your vanity wagon or disagree with the big one.
at least this is what I hope happens because otherwise things are terrible, but I digress.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Not much to defend myself. Not much to claim either. (No PR and I am pretty sure from the crumps I used now and then you can last halway guess the direction of the character) I can die, but since beeing the alternative is not me and I have some unease about the plum/nachohydra against some time (nothing that much concrete, and not enough time to check how much time I mentioned here beside the point in my last post and that is unfortunatly not proven)

Unvote

Vote: Plum

About the choisethink, okay since I got less and less sure about Feysal but Satanscat is sounding like a true claim.

Unchose

But I am not sure who to give it to, Feysal is the main waggon and I more and more think he is town, I won't. Giving the gun to Starbuck seems like a bad idea.

So for my last words: Not yet. In a few hours.
I can only say sorry for inning and at last it would be good for Cersai at last (which should give away who I am)

And please don't give me a gun.

are you fucking kidding me
seriously
you don't vote any of the actual counter wagons
you soft claim
you talk about choosing Starbuck?

WHAT ARE YOU
WHAT ARE YOU

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I'm not nearly finished with re-reading, WHO HAS CLAIMED WHAT SO FAR PLEASE?

VOTE BVOIGT

I've thought that Feysal and DCL were scum for a long time. And even if I didn't think Stefan was scum, it would still be pro-town for me to vote him. Obviously, I'm not 100% sure on any of my reads. What's your point?

Here is the scenario I'm envisioning: Tierce had just called me out for not analyzing my wagon. DCL was desperately looking to get towncred because he was about to get chosen. So he decided that it would look town to analyze the wagon on him. However, to me, his analysis looks completely contrived and insincere. (Gut is a part of that, I guess you could say.) It doesn't feel like a townie's true beliefs; it just feels like scum trying to look helpful.

Are you sure you have the right game? I don't think Tyrion and Littlefinger were in ACoK Mafia. Actually, I don't want to talk about this anymore until Stefan answers this:

@Stefan: Have you read the books?

hahahahahahahahaha

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I will post the big read think in 7 hours outside of work.
Probably won't be that good either.

posting like this isn't so important
what's important is voting and choosing and getting a lynch in 14 hours
if you do this, you will procrastinate

this mostly goes to FUCKING ALBERT SCUMPAGE, but it applies to many regardless

[Plums Yo Mamma]

OH BVOIGT WAS SCUM
OH THE PERSON PLUM TOLD YOU WAS SCUM REALLY IS SCUM
GOD WHAT A SURPRISE
WHAT A FUCKING SUPRISE

[Plums Yo Mamma]

also i will probably post something intelligible later, but I figured that a little bit of I told you so is never a bad idea.
Plus it will make Plum happy once she returns.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I don't think the good players are playing that spectacularly and Shadow was likely to be protected, so I don't see the mason kills as problematic, personally.

It probably does make most sense to use the jailer on someone townie-looking with no coordination. Trying to use it on someone scummy just seems like bad play since it's not going to prevent the nightkill (even uncoordinated any halfway competent scum team should have a member who's practically guaranteed not to have been jailed).

^scum

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Glad to see you're finally comin around on that townread, Regfan.
I'll probably need you to sheep me tomorrow, unfortunately. Although to give you a hint in your Minimum/Staeg dilemma, it's Minimum.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I was also thinking about it and I don't think we have the greatest of chances to do any good if we expect to block a kill by scum that everyone just unanimously agrees on. Instead, people should be thinking of this as a doctor protect and protect the highest townread they have that is not Shadow. There are a couple people floating around that are even townier than the obvtowns, so I think protecting them from death is better than taking a shot in the dark at blocking a scumkill.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

dude I would never jailkeep an obv-PR.
that's a really shitty move, man.

but in all seriousness, we have a better chance of doing positive with something like this by protecting people we want to see tomorrow AND maybe getting lucky and blocking a kill on top of that. that lets us push scumreads during the day without scum knowing shit (except which of their members is most likely to be tracked), and we don't gotta talk about town or nulls today.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Excuse me, let me park my vote on scum for a little while.
VOTE: Saporerint

Please put your vote on Bvoigt -__- We are not having 2 competing wagons of scummies. And frankly, Bvoigt still has a higher percentage of hitting scum (though they are both high indeed :p)

competing wagon? don't panic about the competing wagon.

shinori should be jailed since people talked about it anyways, sadly enough. a more anonymous bit would've been far more entertaining, but, we live and we learn.

sapo is scum, yeah.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I think we should hear Saporeint story today.

And I do not because it will almost certainly end in a claim and we can worry about that tomorrow, if they are not dead.

Yeahhh that was a scumslip alright

Re: me being lynched if bvoigt flips non-stannis scum... Uh, I guess so? I mean, I can't actually defend against "you have bad interactions bro"

And so defend yourself you won't. I don't exactly approve.

Only person who stands out in a bad way here is Plum. They didn't have much bad to say about Stefan, but their failure to comment on the wagon at all looks weird. Then again, they weren't really around at all at the end of the day. Would have been nice to hear what they thought about deliberately ending the day without a lynch.

I talked about vanity wagons, I told ABR to vote bvoigt, I yelled at Stefan for not voting bvoigt. I do believe my opinion of the wagon was pretty clear, if I say so myself.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Staeg, did you suspect Stefan when you voted for him, or did you not?

No, I didn't - I had a weak townread on him, but it seemed like the best thing to do at the time with the deadline close and all.

Also, nacho, do tell how I can defend against "bad interactions"

"Bad interactions? What the fuck are you even talking about, bad interactions?"

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Staeg, did you suspect Stefan when you voted for him, or did you not?

No, I didn't - I had a weak townread on him, but it seemed like the best thing to do at the time with the deadline close and all.

Also, nacho, do tell how I can defend against "bad interactions"

"Bad interactions? What the fuck are you even talking about, bad interactions?"

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Then start doing more shit so people feel scared to call you scum. I didn't realize you were in the game until fairly recently, and that's a bad thing because you're one of those people that I like. Put the fear into those scumfuck bastards and make them call other people scum so you can eat them alive, all of this "I don't know how to defend myself" just brings death closer to you.

(kortul is scum)

[Plums Yo Mamma]

hey i'm just chillin today
but we're jailkeeping trusted players

[Plums Yo Mamma]

wait, JAL is in this game?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Plum here. Plum has a new crazy schedule at college, and Nacho has done some posting. Hopefully this will be useful.

Zdenek is fairly scummy. BBMolla says not but well I have a heart and a gut all my own. Also Nacho's (Nacho feels less strongly about Zdenek). But he is not EXCITING NEWS scummy, so in tags as not to distract from that.

Spoiler: Some discussion of Zdenek's posting today

On a related note: the hydra dissonance has to end, and if it doesn't we start lynching them. We have to eventually be able to hold these slots accountable for their reads.

Dear Lord why.

VOTE: Snowstorm. The level of crap being posted by yours truly has reached the point of no return.

This is just incredibly bad for MoI - he's voting some one for posting crap rather than for being scum.

This is just ridiculously disingenuous. The whole post smacks of contrived reasons to say something about MoI - which amounts after a couple of paragraphs to the useless 'Townreads on MoI aren't so warranted'. Seriously.

Vote: Pandora

Choose: Pandora

Fuck anonymous hydras.

MoS isn't reading the thread, and this is a pretty silly policy lynch and he's proposing while there is reasonable discussion going on.

And who's the guy who just suggested a policy-lynch of hydras doing hydra things that make them 'less easy to read'?

And my gosh, everyone ignored our initial case on bvoigt. Seriously. Basically, too much looks too disingenuous for me to be letting this go any time soon. The whole thing, especially the attacks on Tyene, smack of setting up conventional 'tell parameters' of a sort to make his attacks seem sound. They are not. They ignore crucial and obvious factors.

Kortul is pretty damn scummy Day 2. This is more exciting, but this time I'm saving the best stuff for dessert.

Saporeint, i would like to hear the whole explanation, once you will clear it with the mod. And on day 2. Though, for now i fail to see what discussion can lead to this question from town. Still, if you are town, there would be at least two scum parties on you anyway, so there's no reason to hide the information.

Edd, BBmola, are you in a hurry? I think we should hear Saporeint story today. And also give those MIA time to pick up their prods (in case more replacements will be needed), and if there are no more strong objections on jailing Shinori, allow a day or two for everyone to actually send their jail PM votes. Bvoigt wagon isn't going to run away.

This whole post reeks (pun not initially intended) of over-concillatory, artificial reaction to what happened with Saporient's post. It feels like Sapo has absolutely no idea how to deal with what many other players are treating as a sort of scumslip. He's very careful to say that he does want the explanation and we should hear it. He's also super careful to appear to think that Saporient probably doesn't have an explanation that can explain why this happened.
Pless+Zar is worthy of serious attention. Basically, none of this feels right. If Kortul scum, Saporient is not aligned with him. I don't feel uncomfortable giving Saporient the benefit of the doubt for the nonce, as it happens.

Well, last answer from Saporeint doesn't explain anything for me. I hate losing confidence in my reads, and was mulling on possible scenarios for some time, but still don't see good town explanation. Guess, he is scum after all, unless his full claim will suddenly make sense and shed a light on his intentions.

So: dessert is Plessiezarus. Note first this:

Meh.

UNVOTE

. This is yet another claim I don't really believe, but ...

My gut feeling is that bvoigt is lying about his claim, but it's poor play to risk it on D1.

... right.

Okay, fine, sensible. Plessiezarus had a significant scumread on bvoigt for much of the day, much as Nacho and I did. Note merely that the Pless head expressed serious doubts about Bvoigt's claim of (Town) Odd-Night Vig. He says nothing about how Shadow's claimed power might relate to this. Now, in the next relevant post:

So I kind of still want to lynch bvoigt, but if Shadow uses his role on him tonight, he'll know if the claim is true and he'll also block him. That could save us from lynching an innocent bvoigt or from an evil role use. I don't know who else I'd lynch though. Maybe Shinori or Feysal.

I don't understand why you (or MoI, for that matter) thinks this is the best way to go. Vig is already a provable role. We'll likely know if bvoigt is lying or not tomorrow, if he uses his kill. If Shadow blocks him, then we'll only know that Shadow

claims that

bvoigt is a Vig. And if bvoigt is a (town-aligned) Vig, we'll have missed out on a chance to shoot scum.

I really don't want to test one claim I doubt by having to rely on the word of a second player whose claim I'm also not inclined to believe.

Have you commented on Shadow's claim yet? Oh, right, no. Have you commented on

anything

since your alleged Mason partner claimed? Any thoughts on the people who were voting for him? Why has the fact you've (apparently) stopped hiding your role made you

even less talkative or helpful

?

~ Pless

Pless head argues against using Shadow's power to test bvoigt's. He believes it will prove itself on the same level that Shadow's power can (i.e. if the kills match up with bvoigt's claim then we know he has some Vig power presumably), because it will block a Town-Vig kill if that's what it is (remember Pless expressed significant skepticism that bvoigt was truly a Town Odd-Night Vig), and because he doesn't much trust Shadow.

At this point, to the best of my Ctrl-F ability, Plessiezarus has a null read on Shadow (maintained through the game to that point and restated after his claim) and no discussion of his claim, its likelihood, whatever (he did state significant suspicion of the Mason claims, which I now raise my eyebrows at).

He makes no statement about bvoigt's claim as it might have been influenced by Shadow's claim.

3. Do you think bvoigt and Shadow are scum together?

I certainly don't think it's impossible. (And of course, they don't even have to be scum

together

for Shadow to potentially lie about the role.)

Do you think a plan that relies on Shadow being town-aligned, not role-blocked and surviving the night is a sure-fire approach?

Bvoigt is scum. Investigation returned

no active role

.

Weird. Didn't bvoigt claim vig after you'd already claimed your role? Seems a pretty reckless move on his part if so. Obviously happy to vote for him though (won't yet -- still rereading and trying to analyse the Stefan and DCLXVI wagons from yesterday).

Now on Day 2 Pless - yes, all Pless head - makes a statement of surprise at bvoigt's claim in relation to Shadow's claim???

This would mean that despite Pless' strong suspicion of Bvoigt even after his claim, he made no evaluation of the plausibility of it as a claim vs. it as a fakeclaim in light of what he apparently considers relevant circumstances.

This would mean that after expressing significant doubt of bvoigt's claim initially he gave a lot of weight to the possibility of a null-read of his screwing over an investigation of bvoigt's abilities.

For this to make much sense, Pless would have had to not really consider the possibility of Shadow-Town, bvoigt scum despite having a null read on Shadow and a scumread on bvoigt.

EBWOP: Yeah, bvoigt claimed Vig in 1461. But Shadow had already claimed Torturer in 1321. So a pretty reckless move, I'd have thought. Guess he felt had to claim something though - the wagon on him was pretty big at that point.

~ Pless

Pless' approaches to bvoigt's claim don't fit into a picture of consistency or thoughtfully evolving insights. I may be wrong. But.

I don't feel really good about this. But I am not comfortable with the fact that Pless doubted bvoigt after the claim, then argued significantly against testing the claim with Shadow's power by suggesting doubts on

Shadow

, on whom he and they did not have a scumread and on whose claim he and they did not comment, then argued Day 2 that there should have been less doubt on bvoigt's initial claim because of Shadow's power's bearing on that.

Nacho also has more general feelings about Plessiezarus which I believe have significant merit, but I'll let him word them himself, probably. Mostly I will say something closely related: he wallposted some impressive amounts dissecting people and wagons. Came out with a moderate amount of weak read-related information. I guess the way they admit to their 'disappointing' amount of null reads is candid and mildly Townish. But a lot of their stuff has been paragraphs for nullreads.

Nacho and I haven't sent our jailkeep and stuff yet, unless he has.

Intent to vote bvoigt &c. goes here.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

we sent in out jailkeep.
it would be a damn shame if we weren't on this sexwagon, so

Vote: bvoigt

[Plums Yo Mamma]

not actually saying shit because no shit is important right now
hurry up please

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Interesting, interesting. I like Magna's list to godhand a lot, minus himself and Regfan, since they both are probably most definitely town. I lean towards minimum at the moment, but that's mostly for my own sake and that's about it. Although us being godhanded would be pretty great. I want to talk it over with Plum a bit, but I really want to hurt Sapoerint right now, and vote kortul. For now, I'll do the one that can be taken back:

Vote: kortul

[Plums Yo Mamma]

HURT: Sapoerint

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Well, I was trying to give Staeg a chance to do some scumhunting without yelling at him, but it seems he's a scumfuck this game.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I also intend to do a reread once I have a bit more time on my hands, but Benmage's treatment of the godhanding tells me he's decently likely to be town.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Aye.

Godhand: Plums Yo Mamma

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Interesting lynch mechanic.
Not all that useful, though.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I have a couple things to talk with Plum about before we start pushing a lynch, so please hold.
Also, the Anxiety votes are pretty stupid.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Tyene Sand (Tierce)
Magua
Regfan
Benmage
Mastermind of Sin
Feysal
Pandora (Shadoweh/Quilford)
Scumhunter
BBmolla

vs

Minimum (Mina/CES)
Lyanna Stark (Tammy)
4nxi3ty
kortul
Zdenek
Feysal
Jal

[Plums Yo Mamma]

minimum is town even though the anxiety vote is built on terrible

[Plums Yo Mamma]

tammy is town, yeah

[Plums Yo Mamma]

4nxiety can die the death but I love that kid so much that i can't let him die it quite yet

[Plums Yo Mamma]

kortul is scum as fuck, sure

[Plums Yo Mamma]

probably not stannis?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

no, no, probably stannis

[Plums Yo Mamma]

zdenek is town

[Plums Yo Mamma]

feysal is stannis scum.
surprising.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

jal is town

[Plums Yo Mamma]

so, feysal, since we're gonna lynch you and you're gonna flip scum, I want you to put all your might into finding one non-Stannis aligned buddy scumbag that is not Scumhunter. And then we will almost have the whole Aegon team and that would be seriously awesome. just don't waste the ability to talk, please.

Vote: Feysal

[Plums Yo Mamma]

sorry that i avoid everyone so much
i just want to lynch scum
but I am so out of it right now I need to reread and fucking form some solid not shit reads
because right now I have zero confidence in anything
kortul is probably town, which means that I was being stupid for a long time

but
if you lynch scumhunter
i will fucking kill you all

i will start playing good now, though
or regfan can kill me like I'm sure he wants to
because I do not want tomorrow to come around, me to be confirmed town, and people to be like "fuck, i thought they were scum. what the fuck are you doing this game, Nacho?"

[Plums Yo Mamma]

okay, minimum is town.
I do not think Mina's reaction to pressure is "hi i am town and posting town shit so you can get off me now."
that sounds like townmina in her faith of being obvtown
although I don't like her meta talk, it sounds less proud than normal town mina
but i really like the comment about moi

fuck, mina is harder to read now
and i can only read CES when he's alone
but I suppose minimum can be town for now, fuck it

[Plums Yo Mamma]

got distracted looking through mockingjaye's posting, but strong scum reads in a game that you are behind in is strange, especially when there are not town reads anywhere. there's also a lot of apologizing and tiptoeing around, but I think that's just because mockingjaye is nice. 4nxi3ty isn't post him like I like for him to post, but the suggestion to greyscale a claimed PR is pretty fucking crazy town anxiety shit, I feel.

and this:

If one of my scumreads ended up in a 1v1, I would've had something to say about it. Your lack of comment on sapo during the trial by combat bothers me.

is a really good point

so I am not so happy lynching 4nxi3ty today

[Plums Yo Mamma]

LoLloLol. Whoever suspects me due to my lol jamie lannister comments is hilarious. Its not like im crafting a crazy claim plan. im being completely forthright because meh im disengaged from the game at this point and the accusation that me claiming to be VT due to not having a sword hand in the series is quite lol. Clearly, my VT role PM mentions nothing of the sort, but yes my claim is serious and I am jamie lannister and am a vt so yea cool. I think the analysis of me as angle shooting with the sword hand thing is at best non attentative to my tone and at worst very obvious scum opportunism. i love beer.

Hey lameass...stop trolling...get a grip...drink another beer? Pretty sure no one suspects you for your lololololol Jaime lannister comments...in fact not sure how many people really suspect you at all. Those of us voting you think you deserve death regardless of your alignment based on your play, so yeah have fun with your "opportunism" accusations.

noooo
also this is a prod dodge
don't yell at me, just let me do things in the morning

[Plums Yo Mamma]

school starts tomorrow and I do not have enough time to catch up in this game right now
if plum comes arund, i am sure that she will make some good posting; otherwise, don't expect good shit until tuesday

[Plums Yo Mamma]

More reasons why the scumhunter lynch is stupid!

Scumhunter - Fuck Scumhunter. Agree with Regfan that Scumhunter-town would be contributing more, so the more lurkalicious he is the more likely he is to be scum.

policy lynch.
he's sheeping Regfan, but Regfan isn't even voting scumhunter in the first place. Also, I am going to do a quick meta check, so beep (scumhunter scum game where he was lazy, but not blatantly lazy. he at least had some sort of scumread, and also put actual effort into defending himself with meta and the like, and replaced out when he didn't have enough time) boop (not lazy scumhunter town) beep (town lazy-ish, had a hydra partner though) and actually can't find a large game that he wasn't very lazy in those so perhaps you have a point.

feysal's vote is stupid.

kortul was a pressure vote trying to develop reads, then sort of develops into a policy lynch.

Dude, cmon Broskis. I'm Jaime freaking Lannister. I boned my own sister. My dad shits gold. No way I'm not all about Casterly Rock and protecting King Tommen to rule the kingdom 4ever!! Man. I'm soooooooooooooo lazyyyyyyyyyy. Freaking A man.

So you've decided to be dead fucking weight, and just go on about your laziness. I don't buy into the crap assumption that people are too lazy to be scum and I happen to know that stick your head in the sand and hope things go away is your scum play.

VOTE: scumhunter

policy vote.


so yeah, biggest thing is laziest = scum, but the not giving a shit laziness here is far less like his scummeta than it is elsewhere. So I am still not happy with this lynch.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Confident Plums Yo Mamma is going to flip scum and is just wifoming(e.g. He put feysal on both sides of that vs. list and other stuff hes posted today)

don't see 4nxi3ty saying this as scum ever
feel free to disagree

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Another day. We've had other fish to fry for a couple days, but I have not forgotten about this.

VOTE: Scumhunter

This is entirely about Starbuck, and I can say little more about Scumhunter than that he has done nothing to reverse my strong scum read on his predecessor. I've tried to explain it before, with rather disappointing results. I will try one more time to show why her self choice was not any kind of town tell.

According to Starbuck, she felt like she would be lynchbait, but wanted to be useful. Being vanilla town she had no reason not to volunteer to be chosen. She believed it would be best to control where the kill landed rather than trying to choose scum in the first place, and to this end she wanted to be chosen to carry out the kill based on what the town wanted.

That is the story Starbuck would have us believe, and far too many accepted her explanation. There are however some glaring gaps in her account. Let me point them out.

Why did Starbuck feel like lynchbait?

The earliest post where she indicated wanting to choose town was #42, only one hour into the game, when she had four votes on her. I cannot believe anyone would feel so dejected so early and for so little.

Why does Starbuck not choose herself to begin with?

She starts by talking about wanting to choose town, and if she meant to have herself chosen all along, why did she only choose herself in response to criticism?

Why was Starbuck worried about where the kill landed?

This seems like something that scum would be much more concerned about than town. She never could explain her stance when confronted about it, she was simply insistent and tried to show how others had supposedly agreed.

Why did Starbuck speak both in favor and against directing the kill?

She said that she would follow the wishes of the majority when she claimed, but in post #32 she had supported the opposite view. Oops.

I think what mockingjaye said in her first content post about Starbuck's position evolving was right on the money. Starbuck did not start by choosing herself and she first spoke against directing the kill, which makes it clear to me that her eventual self choice and promise to listen to town wishes were only in response to increasing pressure. It comes off as defensive rather than genuine desire to help through self sacrifice. In her attempt to show how others had similar thoughts and particularly in her exchange with Dredd her defensive attitude is obvious. Other than that, all she ever gave was empty promises to catch up and contribute.

I remember how redFF also attacked her which makes Starbuck unlikely to be Stannis aligned, and bvoigt defending her may not mean anything if BBmolla is right about Aegon forces being divided. But Starbuck/Scumhunter could easily be a stranded Aegon goon. She may actually have thought that being chosen would not be that bad, she could carry out an extra kill for her team and if she was isolated they would never need to worry about contacting her.

I have not looked closely at mockingjaye and don't see what the links to bvoigt and Saporerint are supposed to be, but I have thought her play was in line with what I remember from her as town, and I have agreed with many of her thoughts, like the one about Starbuck above.

meanwhile...
Feysal's only strong read is Starbuck from page fucking 3
page 3
seriously, since when does this not scream "scum scum scum"?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

mossy, stop defending yourself
we know you are town
just vote Feysal

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Piney poo lurked till the of the day
Wagons on town were deemed okay
I keep being prodded in this terrible state
Lynching a townie is something I hate

feysalllll

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Currently on page 6, will post again after catching up on the rest

I have two pages to go, but I'm just not going to finish tonight, too tired to read any more. I have picked up a bunch of reads along the way, others I have no read on yet, but both will have to wait.

Damn it. For every page I read, another seems to pop up, and this wall just keeps growing when I never have an opportunity to post fully caught up. I've had enough for one night, this goes up now, even though I'm still behind.

[quote="Feysal"Six new pages since I last checked the thread, and no time to catch up immediately. I suppose I should be thankful it is not more. I will be reading tomorrow.[/quote]

Currently at page 24, will finish catching up later.

Preview edit: the last page is 40 now? Two new pages just while I was writing this. I'll deal with that later.

Caught up. There are things I need to start doing,

I took a day off to catch up in another game I had been neglecting, and again I find myself pages behind. I can't catch up properly before the deadline, so I have only skimmed enough to know the current situation, who has claimed and what. It looks like all that needs to be done today is to make up my mind about bvoigt and StefanB.

I've received my prod and read about half of the new pages, though I still have more to go.

Okay, enough of this. I have caught up, but since we're lynching bvoigt anyway, there is little reason to post updated reads today

Once more I'm late to the proceedings, and this time I seem to have entirely missed a trial by combat.

I see Staeg just got hammered. Under the circumstances, I will finish reading during the night phase, and post what I have now.

Another day. We've had other fish to fry for a couple days, but I have not forgotten about this.

I'm only a page behind at the moment, but I have no time to read more or analyze tonight. Thus this post amounts to no more than a prod dodge.

fuck you

[Plums Yo Mamma]

This is Plum. I'm here to say we're lynching Feysal. Greyscaling, whatever. Mkay?

Thought number one: Re kortul, sometimes members of the same scumteam are run up in competing wagons. This can certainly confuse Townies. I was once on a scumteam where the three major wagons Day 3 were on three members of a four-player scumteam.

I don't buy Feysal being completely tunnelvisioned laser-focused Town.

Magua has not yet impressed me and I can't even remember whom he replaced.

Super not-interested in lynching MoS today.

I'm acutually leaning town on MoS for that VCA. When scum do vote count analysis it is usually to drive a lynch, "Oh these people are definitely scum based on this information". Compared that to MoS who votes someone no one else is voting and is like, "not sure who is scum yet I think kortul is a good place start"

You are surprisingly good people. Sir I am not sure we've met before but it's a pleasure.

Not completely convinced that Kortul is Town but will shelve it for a bit while we deal with Feysal. Mostly this feels pretty mediocre:

Tierce, but i don't see this slot as town. My suspicions are not that strong, but they exist. I reread the play of Starbuck again, and just don't see any towntells. She may be naive, maybe she were confused, but that isn't an alignment tell. I already told why i think interactions between Sala/Sapo, bvoigt and her are suspicious.

Followed by blah blah blah justifying a policy lynch regarding Scumhunter's behavior. His strongest scumread boils down to "Starbuck never dropped any Towntells in

my

book and [mediocre confirmation bias 'interactions'/relationship with bvoigt and Sala/Saporient]. But if Tyene has confidence in a meta read I'll give it my attention tomorrow or something, and catch Nacho on actual AIM before then too.

---

So what has Feysal done? Well, Day 3 he did the following:

1. Weak attack on Staeg, weasely and hedgey.

2. Weak attack on Shinori, weasely and hedgey and weirdly dependent on Staeg flipping scum. He completely drops this Day 4 for a while until he belatedly says something like 'well his actions don't make any sense but his scumbuddies wouldn't let him act like this probably'.

Seriously. He funnels all of his energy into ignoring the lot of this and repushing his Starbuck case and prod-dodging. Feysal, I am not interested in your Starbuck case or attacking it, and neither is my other head. Frankly. The fact that you're still pushing this case as-is and daring anyone to make points against it if they want to have any say regarding you and your scumhunting is stupid. We've gone past the point that Starbuck is in this game to make argument about Starbuck-specific things. We've gone way way past the point that anyone arguing about a case specifically on Starbuck's actions is useful or coherent. Note that I'm not saying your case isn't lucid; I'm sure in itself it is perfectly understandable.

But it's nice and easy to make a case that is days old and have that be your contribution, and challenge everyone who thinks you're being lurky and disingenuous on that. It's nice and easy to make a case and that is damn well why cases are scummy. It's nice to make a dramatic front about "That is the story Starbuck would have us believe, and far too many accepted her explanation".

But that doesn't make you more of a scumhunter or less of a posturer

.

Feysal: There is another wagon and it's you.

GOD DAMMIT EDDARD STARK KEEPS REMINDING ME ABOUT FAMILY DUTY HONOR AND PRODS AND SHIT

Was anyone else surprised by the supposed Jaime Lannister using the Tully words? When I was first prodded, Ned used a phrase relevant to my character in the prod message, so this makes me wonder.

This is just frakking comical. Yup, Scumhunter is totally Edmure Tully and sad because he can't haz sexy Roslin :'(

MoS, please be a dear and get with the Feysal lynch. DCLXVI bussing in that situation would not at all be out of the question. Four competing wagons on scum Day 1 in a multiball if you also count the three that were on Town who claimed out is also perfectly plausible.

This feels like a bad post and like I should feel bad, but hell.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Vote: Scumhunter

You were in GvE, Nacho. You know activity and prod dodges aren't remotely indicative of alignment when it comes to Feysal. It's frustrating, yes. Very much so, and I wish he'd keep to smaller games when he clearly doesn't have the free time to be participative. But it doesn't mean anything and I seriously distrust the way you seem to be pushing it as relevant.

Yes I was, and for some reason we have two very, very different memories of Feysal prod dodging. I seem to remember him pushing a BBMolla wagon like hell for a while, I remember he was convinced Typo Incarnate was scum for a while, he also had a lot to do with defending the shit out of me in MyLo because I lurked so fucking much.

Here, he's been prod dodging, but his reads haven't been changing at all as I'd expect town-Feysal's to, and he hasn't been frustrated on days when there wasn't much chance of lynching this scumread that has been so strong he's been pushing it from Page 3.

Then there is Plumamma. What the hell? Recently you keep calling my Starbuck vote stupid, but have you ever even commented on my case? I also remember hearing how meta should not be a shield, but a sledgehammer, or words to that effect. I don't give a damn how lazy Scumhunter is as town, my case is not about him anyway. I looked up meta on Starbuck too earlier in the game, and what I saw from her as town had nothing in common with her woe is me attitude in this game. And you talk as if no one ever caught scum on page three. Neither Starbuck or Scumhunter has ever done anything to make me reverse that read.

I have called your case stupid, yes. You're essentially saying that Starbuck got an isolated Aegon goon PM, and decided to get herself chosen so she could shoot someone town? The "woe is me" attitude you refer to is a bit off-base; she never says "I'm a liability, choose me", she says "I'm a VT, choose me".
And sure, people have definitely caught scum and page 3. But do they update their case when it is page 102? Usually, yes.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

oh hey, plum's back.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Not just a policy vote. He has a

decent enough

chance at flipping scum, and

is someone I wouldn't care less if didn't and moreover don't want anywhere near LyLo.

He's contributed absolutely nothing besides calling MoI a scumlord and saying Regfan's probably scum for LOLsuspecting him. I just finished a game where he contributed extremely little as scum and pulled this lazy crap. He doesn't even have to read the entire thread. Regfan and I have suggested for him a place to start that didn't entail reading a 100 page game and he still refuses cuz lollazy. He could absolutely pull this off as scum.

And if town, he's not going to be nightkilled, so if this game goes to LyLo, he'll likely lose it for us anyway. Totally not opposed to his lynch.

The bolded are the important bits. You know he probably won't flip scum. And it frustrates you, I understand.
But you also should understand that there is going to be a big ol' target on my head today if not tomorrow, so our time in this world is a little short. I understand that the beginning was a bit underwhelming, but I'm back in the saddle now and I'm ready to lynch scum, not disgustingly lazy town.

What Pandora said. In GvE (and other games) I remember Feysal being a lot more active. But his interactions with the flipped scum so far lead me to believe he's probably town, so I still think he's a bad lynch.

Which interactions make you think that he's not Stannis aligned?

DCLXVI staying on the Feysal Choose wagon instead of the equally viable Greenknight wagon...also I find it unlikely that we had 4 competing wagons on scum D1...Sapo/bvoigt for votes and DCLXVI/Feysal for chooses...

lynches were StefanB and Bvoigt, ultimately.
scum did not seem so sad about being chosen, and I could easily see a DCL/Feysal crossbus in the chooses and not in the voting.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

What made red flags come up was your focus on the prod dodging, which is typical Feysal, without bringing these other points up.

That post was me specifically calling Feysal out because I saw him reading at the bottom.
I did not want him to proddodge again.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Goddammit Nacho I really hope you're town. I hate this paranoia and the waiting because there's nothing to be done about you.

I hate the paranoia too, trust me.
Luckily if I live 'til the morn, it will be all gone.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Whoops.
Guess your paranoia is keeping me alive until then.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

List doesn't matter, and I was wrong about the kortul read.

Explain the Feysal = Stannis scum in Post 2346 for me.

Their interaction reading notscum is bullshit. DCL rarely addressed Feysal twice, and was careful to draw attention to the fact that they were crossvoting. This is unlike kortul's choose on DCL where he states that he wished DCL could post more so he could refine his read but he supposes he could trust him with a gun if he was wrong because that doesn't get any towncred. The Feysal/DCL cross-choosing business clearly was meant to.

I don't buy Feysal-scum. Do agree his town meta is to be more active than this and his play here meta-wise now is moreish towards his scum meta but don't think he fits as either scum-team

For one, I think that it's stupid that people are pulling out the "doesn't fit as either scumteam" card when we have one stannis scum flipped by choosing. It's a different mechanic then lynching so it's harder to garner associative tells from, and it's also hard to draw such strong associative tells when Feysal is lurking up a storm. Do I find it scummy that he hasn't been active? Sort of. What I find scummier is that he could care less about his strongest scumread of the game, one that he has pushed since very early on but hasn't felt the need to update for 100 fucking pages.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Choose:Feysal

VOTE: Jal I'm tired so I'm going to blatantly sheep Dolorous on this one.

and yes, I'm aware I'm joining two of the bigger wagons. It's not my fault they got caught before I joined.


Townreads: Dolorous, MoI, shadow
null leaning scum: Tierce
Scumreads: Jal, Feysal

I'll have more later but this is a good starting point for a game this big.

read how he feels obligated to shirk responsibility for the jal vote (which should be his stronger scumread), and yet doesn't for the Feysal read. it's almost like he knows Feysal is gonna flip scum, and thus doesn't need to be worried about voting him.

I find it interesting that I am listed as null-leaning scum, and starbuck is listed as scum but Feysal puts his choose on me. still scum.

the only other Feysal interaction, despite choosing him for all of Day 1.

You might point out that the greenknight choose wagon was ripe for hopping right around when DCL jumped on feysal. But it only makes sense for him to bus his partner with his choose vote, especially since the wagon on him was pretty reasonless (fucking multiball slip? seriously?), especially since he's already concerned about jumping on easy bandwagons demonstrated by him saying so in his first post, his overreaction to Ben calling him out for the Jal vote, and his vote on you which is basically saying "look, I'm not jumping on easy bandwagons!"

so yeah, no clearing Feysal from this angle

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Choose: greenknight

Oh yeah, Feysal DID try to go for the juicier greenknight choose wagon before DCL. That's right!

Another mason. Oh great. Well, it adds up. My problem with SnowStorm having been too passive and not even sheeping or supporting his partner is easily explained by his original partner having gone AWOL.

Unchoose: greenknight

this post is cool because it reminds us that Feysal got his last choose wagon shut down by a mason claim, and the alternate wagon to him is DCL. As scum, what's he going to do? Put in additional effort and create a new choose wagon to save his scumpartner? Choose himself? Or bus?

Choose: DCLXVI

we have a winner.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Upon rethinking it and because it is 4:30 in the morning and I am generous, I don't think we can have a proper Feysal discussion without me answering your questions satisfactorily, which I guess I will anyways.
The first section of the list of townreads that I had and was going to do short reevaluations on, and the second list was people I specifically wanted to ISO because of fleeting scumreads and I hadn't read in a while. Feysal appears on that list twice because he was originally a townread for me until I actually read his posts and realized that what he was saying was actually a bunch of crap.
The kortul not stannis read was based on his choose on DCL, where the probably stannis read was how fake he treated DCL's flip "is Stannis related to Aegon Targaryan because I am totally willing to trust you guys instead of google". I've since decided that this kortul is not scum-kortul, after checking him against Last Will IV, where he had a few obvious tells he is not dropping here.

and luckily, while checking the game again to make sure what I am saying is not complete and total bullshit, I found this:

The choose does not require a majority, so please don't vote me under the fallacy that doing so is better than a no-choose. If you think me and feysal are both town just don't choose either of us.

totally not bussing, guys
totally

[Plums Yo Mamma]

and if you've read through the thread you'd know as much; the scum-read on you is mostly revolved around Mockingjayes posts and the fact that she fits perfectly with post scum-teams.

This is a problem. The fact that she fits with both scumteams probably means she doesn't belong to either.
This goes for you too, Mossy.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Also, I've decided that I am not okay with people not forming a read on me until the end of Day 5. It's good for me to get reads on people by the way they are reading someone who is clearly and obviously town, and it's better that scum can't wait to see how much of a threat I'll become by Day 5 before so much as expressing their opinion on me anymore, especially since I know I am a hard read for plenty this game.

4nxi3ty, Tyene, and Regfan all get townpoints for not just pushing me to the side and taking some effort to read me.
Magua gets a glare.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

scum don't talk about their buddies like this. This is what they do to tie themselves to somebody else.

And he was not trying to tie himself to Feysal at all. I could see what you mean if he wasn't choosing Feysal for the entire fucking game, but that's not the case so here we are.

don't think scums aim and goal would be to have them crossing and think DCLs 'feysal is scummy but less so because of the multislip and moreso because of other things' isn't what he'd say to have them cross as scum and think he'd have gone for greenknight.

The goal doesn't have to be crossing; the goal should be a little bit of distancing. But when the wagon never died until the choose wagon on DCL that was obviously going to go through, crossing just happened. Think RedCoyote voting Amrun in Chosen Ones; he thought it was a shitty wagon that would die eventually, but when it stayed as big as it was, he never got the opportunity to hop off.

Kind of shocked that you'd say something as stupid as this. Sure, someone fitting as scum with someone else doesn't mean they will always be scum but the fact that they fit with both parties as scum increases the odds they're scum not 'probably doesn't mean they belong to either'. Don't see any way at all you can even consider justifying the 'less likely to be scum' stance at all.

If they fit with both scumteams, then the connections you're looking for are not good enough, and you need to start refining things. If you mean that you don't quite know which scumteam they are on because they have no significant connections, okay, that's fine, but when you have significant interactions on a player being scum from both factions, it doesn't mean they're likelier scum, it just means you're wrong.

I expect Starbuck thought she could not backtrack from her previous statement, and so she gave yet another excuse, and claimed she had meant choosing vanilla town for the job. Again her response only provoked more questions, as she was asked how she expected to identify vanilla town to choose.

Because three players voting you

scum don't talk about their buddies like this. This is what they do to tie themselves to somebody else.

And he was not trying to tie himself to Feysal at all. I could see what you mean if he wasn't choosing Feysal for the entire fucking game, but that's not the case so here we are.

don't think scums aim and goal would be to have them crossing and think DCLs 'feysal is scummy but less so because of the multislip and moreso because of other things' isn't what he'd say to have them cross as scum and think he'd have gone for greenknight.

The goal doesn't have to be crossing; the goal should be a little bit of distancing. But when the wagon never died until the choose wagon on DCL that was obviously going to go through, crossing just happened. Think RedCoyote voting Amrun in Chosen Ones; he thought it was a shitty wagon that would die eventually, but when it stayed as big as it was, he never got the opportunity to hop off.

Kind of shocked that you'd say something as stupid as this. Sure, someone fitting as scum with someone else doesn't mean they will always be scum but the fact that they fit with both parties as scum increases the odds they're scum not 'probably doesn't mean they belong to either'. Don't see any way at all you can even consider justifying the 'less likely to be scum' stance at all.

If they fit with both scumteams, then the connections you're looking for are not good enough, and you need to start refining things. If you mean that you don't quite know which scumteam they are on because they have no significant connections, okay, that's fine, but when you have significant interactions on a player being scum from both factions, it doesn't mean they're likelier scum, it just means you're wrong.

I expect Starbuck thought she could not backtrack from her previous statement, and so she gave yet another excuse, and claimed she had meant choosing vanilla town for the job. Again her response only provoked more questions, as she was asked how she expected to identify vanilla town to choose.

Because three players voting you in a 28 player list is enough to make anyone flip the fuck out.

There you have Starbuck explicitly calling herself a liability. I also believe she was lying when she said she had meant herself all along. Instead I see her slipping worse and worse, until the only thing she could think of doing was choosing herself.

I'm having trouble finding your thought process here, so let's jump in Starbuck's shoes.
She's coming back from a bit of a hiatus, had a game before as town, whatever. She gets three votes, panics hard, says some shit about wanting the choose to be used as a policy lynch (which you found ridiculous, but others have suggested), that didn't work, so she started panicking earlier and chose herself? How did she reach the "oh, I think that VTs should be chosen?" conclusion, and what was she hoping the town would conclude after that? How did she reach the "oh, I should claim laughably early and choose myself?" conclusion? I can see these thought processes as scum, but the scenario you are playing out doesn't make sense except for a particularly gifted scum player that someone panics to shit when three people vote them.

There you have Starbuck explicitly calling herself a liability. I also believe she was lying when she said she had meant herself all along. Instead I see her slipping worse and worse, until the only thing she could think of doing was choosing herself.

So you're saying this is a last result?
Despite the wagon on her hadn't really grown to be that impressive?
So she pulled the trump card really, really, really prematurely?

As for not updating my case, exactly what is there to update?

Would you be peeved if my vote on you was due to the multiball slip?
Yes, you would be. More shit has happened, and still you've been clinging onto a tired old read that has convinced absolutely no one when it was presented, and convincing absolutely no one now. You'd think that with this much trouble pushing a wagon, you'd turn to different avenues, try different reasoning, attack the replacement, but no. You're content pushing something that never worked. This tells me you don't really care a lot about your scumread very much, which would make you scum, now wouldn't it?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

scum don't talk about their buddies like this. This is what they do to tie themselves to somebody else.

And he was not trying to tie himself to Feysal at all. I could see what you mean if he wasn't choosing Feysal for the entire fucking game, but that's not the case so here we are.

don't think scums aim and goal would be to have them crossing and think DCLs 'feysal is scummy but less so because of the multislip and moreso because of other things' isn't what he'd say to have them cross as scum and think he'd have gone for greenknight.

The goal doesn't have to be crossing; the goal should be a little bit of distancing. But when the wagon never died until the choose wagon on DCL that was obviously going to go through, crossing just happened. Think RedCoyote voting Amrun in Chosen Ones; he thought it was a shitty wagon that would die eventually, but when it stayed as big as it was, he never got the opportunity to hop off.

Kind of shocked that you'd say something as stupid as this. Sure, someone fitting as scum with someone else doesn't mean they will always be scum but the fact that they fit with both parties as scum increases the odds they're scum not 'probably doesn't mean they belong to either'. Don't see any way at all you can even consider justifying the 'less likely to be scum' stance at all.

If they fit with both scumteams, then the connections you're looking for are not good enough, and you need to start refining things. If you mean that you don't quite know which scumteam they are on because they have no significant connections, okay, that's fine, but when you have significant interactions on a player being scum from both factions, it doesn't mean they're likelier scum, it just means you're wrong.

I expect Starbuck thought she could not backtrack from her previous statement, and so she gave yet another excuse, and claimed she had meant choosing vanilla town for the job. Again her response only provoked more questions, as she was asked how she expected to identify vanilla town to choose.

Because three players voting you in a 28 player list is enough to make anyone flip the fuck out.

There you have Starbuck explicitly calling herself a liability. I also believe she was lying when she said she had meant herself all along. Instead I see her slipping worse and worse, until the only thing she could think of doing was choosing herself.

I'm having trouble finding your thought process here, so let's jump in Starbuck's shoes.
She's coming back from a bit of a hiatus, had a game before as town, whatever. She gets three votes, panics hard, says some shit about wanting the choose to be used as a policy lynch (which you found ridiculous, but others have suggested), that didn't work, so she started panicking earlier and chose herself? How did she reach the "oh, I think that VTs should be chosen?" conclusion, and what was she hoping the town would conclude after that? How did she reach the "oh, I should claim laughably early and choose myself?" conclusion? I can see these thought processes as scum, but the scenario you are playing out doesn't make sense except for a particularly gifted scum player that someone panics to shit when three people vote them.

There you have Starbuck explicitly calling herself a liability. I also believe she was lying when she said she had meant herself all along. Instead I see her slipping worse and worse, until the only thing she could think of doing was choosing herself.

So you're saying this is a last result?
Despite the wagon on her hadn't really grown to be that impressive?
So she pulled the trump card really, really, really prematurely?

As for not updating my case, exactly what is there to update?

Would you be peeved if my vote on you was due to the multiball slip?
Yes, you would be. More shit has happened, and still you've been clinging onto a tired old read that has convinced absolutely no one when it was presented, and convincing absolutely no one now. You'd think that with this much trouble pushing a wagon, you'd turn to different avenues, try different reasoning, attack the replacement, but no. You're content pushing something that never worked. This tells me you don't really care a lot about your scumread very much, which would make you scum, now wouldn't it?

>.>

[Plums Yo Mamma]

UNVOTE, VOTE: PINE

Jal was plenty scummy and oh, hey, Pine's barely bothering to play the game, which is also totally a scum tell for him. You can't be opposed to a Pinelynch, people.

what's wrong with Feysal, CES?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

The final DCLXVI wagon had 15 votes, 6 of which have flipped town, 2 of which were late scum votes. Additionally, the last 7 votes on DCLXVI are now dead, which leaves the early voters still alive. That means it's likely one or more of Tierce, Regfan, Pandora, Feysal, Tammy, kortul, and Plums Yo Mamma are scum.

In Post 1010, we have three major wagons on flipped players, 1 town and 2 scum. There's a decent possibility that an Aegon scum is in the group of Regfan, Feysal, Jal, and Shinori that were still keeping the SnowStorm wagon alive as two Aegon wagons were countering it.

Mos I see one pretty good possibility for scum in both of these groups.
And I know you wanna vote them.
But I'm not saying who it is because it's a secret.
(hint: Feysal)

[Plums Yo Mamma]

can someone give me the footnotes before i attempt to skim this beast

vote feysal so we can lynch scum before they lynch you

[Plums Yo Mamma]

also, AV is town as fuck, soooo

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Why would you need to search the thread to come to that conclusion?

Because it wasn't in the sample PM.

It shouldn't even be a question; sample PMs are irrelevant.

hey, your wagon looks like it's lagging
come have the strong feel of a man's man's wagon

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Avox joining the biggest wagon without reading the game is making me twinge a little.

Were you only going to comment on the Feysal wagon once to get townpoints from Regfan, or did you acually want to talk things out? Because I am not only here and willing, I am

eager

.

Fairly sure the "ace up my sleeve" was supposed to refer to being Jaime Lannister and wasn't a PR softclaim.

go be useless somewhere else

[Plums Yo Mamma]

THORRRRRRR <3

hmm? not really down for the wifom game you are playing. You seem hellbent on a feysal lynch, and letting other scumreads fall by the wayside?

Don't know what WIFOM game you are talking about, which sort of concerns me because I usually do that shit on purpose. And yes I am hellbent on a Feysal lynch because the Feysal lynch is the best thing since crack cocaine. No scumreads are falling to the wayside, though. They just aren't being discussed as much because this is a pretty strong playerlist and tons of people have their own vanity wagons so I feel like bringing up other possibilities is useless since I

probably

won't die tonight and the second I say another name the game becomes the compromise game, and I don't want to play that. If you disagree for good reasons, that's why I'm opening up this discussion in the first place.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

PEdit: Nacho, I know you're super super for this Feysal lynch but I dowant your order for alternate lynches.

but i dontwant to give it.
would rather weigh my reads against plum's first.
would rather lynch Feysal who is scum.

but then they have later posts (eg, the back and forth with Regfan) where something is pointed out to them that makes it look like their original posts were actually just skims.

Could you point out the pointing out for me?
In this hydra, Plum is the thorough one and I am the passionate one, so it's entirely possible that I have missed things here and there but I feel like I've done the Feysal thing enough to not miss much.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

for what it's worth, MoS's replace out did seem off.
I could totally see him replacing out because his little gambit didn't get him all of the townreads that he wanted, but I can see him getting frustrated because people attacked him right when he felt he did something fucking fantastic.
so that's where I am.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Greetings - I've got like three days till deadline and am a lazy reader to start with, much less for 100+ pages of bickering.

Who is scum and who should I sheep?

feysal is scum and you should sheep zdenek

[Plums Yo Mamma]

will catch up onto this game in a moment.
although I have no idea why the Feysal wagon derailed.
i'm willing to bet money he's said absolutely nothing in the interim.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

"Feysal having one scum read = Scum".

No. It brings up the fact that Feysal only having one scum read that he has not added to since PAGE FUCKING 3, which is not a meta point that tunneling = scummy because that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that he is pushing and pushing for reasons that are sorely fucking outdated, which is scummy. Not that he is tunneling. I never said or implied that he was scummy because he was tunneling.

confirmation-bias

You were saying that they were in no way partners. I was pointing out that they COULD BE. I was not talking about confirmation bias, I was trying to fight yours.

So all up I think the case is horseshit. Lynch Timeater or 4nxiety over Feysal anyday.

And you got it fundamentally wrong.

@Zdenek - this is how your last post reads to me;

I did research on Feysal's scum meta.
It doesn't match his play here.
I would like to lynch him here.
Therefore I'll say the meta doesn't matter because he could have changed it.

Unvote: Feysal
Vote: Zdenek

>.>
you know that this is not the time to be starting a new wagon at all.

So I should have revised my case over the past days? Way to ask for the impossible. There are only so many novel ways to phrase that Starbuck and Scumhunter spent their time doing absolutely nothing, and since the only time anything happened with the slot was early day one, then it is early day one I must base my case on. What the hell do they expect? I am not Moses, and I cannot draw water from stone.

Timeater's done a fair bit.
Scumhunter did do things, and you didn't comment on them.
It doesn't take Moses to add to a case, sorry. Interactions with flipped scum, things like that?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I am also immensely frustrated in this game day, so expect this last flurry of posts to be my last for the rest of the game day. No, I probably won't be switching my vote. If a no lynch occurs because everyone pushing vanity wagons causes everything to fall through, then I most likely will be replacing out because honestly there is no excuse for that happening with this playerlist.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nevermind, I actually just don't have it in me.
People pushing Thor for posturing: This is what Thor does, it's sort of his playstyle. He's not scum, and will not flip scum.
People pushing Tim for whatever the fuck: No, not at all.

4nxi3ty and Zdenek votes are terrible votes even if they are scum, and even if every other wagon is on town.
Regfan, you should especially pay attention to this vote unless you already forgot the StefanB lynch.

don't think Shadow faking what essentially is a guilty on Bvoigt here as scum at all, it'd be suicidal which unfortunately means that my town-read on Bvoigt is wrong and even worse it means that Nacho wins a round.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

oh hey, feysal's at the bottom, he's just gonna lurk the fuck out.
hate how he's disgusted with my play, yet he's the person who is putting absolutely no effort in the game whatsoever.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

actually fuck this, not letting this wagon die just yet

[Plums Yo Mamma]

THOR:

I absolutely hate hate hate hate hate hate hate to say this, but Thor has been obvtown since replacing in. He is a good scumplayer, and I don't see even the more incompetent people fucking up in the way that Thor would be if he were scum. The only thing that he really had to accomplish for his scumteam upon not replacing in, unless Feysal is his partners, is to not draw fire and to allow the town to continue being somewhat apathetic in the lynch. Thor replaces in, he draws a lot of attention, he polarizes the town somewhat. Then, after someone who is on the wagon posts, he stops sheeping and attacks them even though there are no previous votes on them which is obviously going to draw attention from someone since he has not read the game so far. Why, as scum, would Thor do this? No one gave him fire for not reading the game, no one criticized him for jumping on the Feysal wagon. Why wouldn't he stay on? He would be completely justified, and questioning elsewhere couldn't have been THAT hard, and even if Feysal wasn't his partner, the flip itself wouldn't really give him that much to defend. If Feysal was his partner, there really wouldn't be a reason for him to jump on without him having plans to jump off, so that situation is ruled out pretty handily. Then there's a bunch of votes on Thor for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON, and Thor continues being his normal thor self because he really doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't stop being cheeky (which scumThor can do, believe it or not), and he doesn't stop poking and various players even after he's called them obvtown (which means he's just saying that to adjust your position, but apparently I am the only one who can see when Thor is lying).

so yeah, thor's gonna flip town wheeee
if you disagree, post a case but no one will so I feel good in this

[Plums Yo Mamma]

except Zdenek*
but I would like to see others, first

[Plums Yo Mamma]

@Thor665

- you do realize that chances that you will push Zdenek wagon to the lynch stage today are really small? Are you going to settle for a compromise lynch? Have you seen case(s) on Feysal and Timeater slot, what are your thoughts?

The top three wagons are me, Feysal, and Timeater. I have expressed interest in lynching Zdenek and Minimalist.
I know I am town and think the other two are likely town - where do you think I am better served placing my vote?
If I could think of something, I'd be there.

if you vote Feysal, you can free me up to scumhunt elsewhere
if you vote Timeater, Feysal is actually forced to do things after he flips town
either vote is better than insufferable Zdenek vote

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Replacements and townreads: Thor replaced Jal/Pine, a slot I was reading as Town. Timeater replaced Starbuck/Scumhunter, and I've made plenty clear that this is a strong townread. Their actions so far aren't impressing me.

so why not trust your old townreads a little bit and vote for someone you find unreadable?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor

BBMOLLA YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THIS

Tammy, where have you gone? Why has the Feysal wagon lost its luster, especially when Tim and Thor are at least here while Feysal is doing jack and shit still and has pretty good reasons why he is probably scum? Don't you think it's possible you're having a shitty first impression with Thor because you aren't actually giving him the time to do anything?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Who is the scum on the wagon?

I really wouldn't be suprised to find Plum be Stannis scum with one of 4nxiety/Timeater and their push on Feysal being saving partner. Know 4nxiety/DCL/Nacho all fit really well as partners, don't know how Timeater fits with Nacho/DCL, might look at it later but we find out Nachos alignment end of tomorrow for certain. Mollas town, Pandoras town, Zdeneks town, Tammys town, AV I'm undecided on, was scum on MoS all the way until his replace out, not so sure now.

hold on, YOU brought up confirmation bias?
This scumread has held fast pretty much since day 1, god damn it
no wonder you won't find Feysal town, it's all thanks to the motherfucking paranoia
At least next time you read my case, read it correctly. I have explained the shit so many times and only you seem to think my case is Feysal is scum because he tunnels.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

okay, backing away for a little while.
feysal is down at the bottom, so he should be posting soon.
sorry for spam.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

THOR YOU QUIT DERAILING MY WAGON OR I WILL VOTE YOU
GOD DAMN IT

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Though, seriously, tell you what, I'll lulz hammer right now if you tell me your take on the Zdenek/Thor back and forth? Who do you think is scoring more points there and why? Because I feel I am blatant winning and am being ignored, and I think everyone voting me can't explain their case because there isn't one, and I might be down to slam Feysal and call it a scumbuddy rush to save - but only if I'm right in that perception

I don't want your lulzhammer.
If you want to talk about Zdenek/Thor, talk about Feysal/Nacho. What the hell am I not seeing that everyone else is? Why is he town?

I can give more concrete examples if it'll sway anyone

This is what I would like very dearly.

Right now, the only reason I see people disagreeing with me is because Feysal is lurking too hard, or because I'm pushing it too hard and I have confirmation bias. This isn't exactly acceptable to me, so please stop ignoring me. Please.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

so overall there was little to nothing for him to update his read upon or change his mind so you pushing that he's scum for not changing his mind, updating his read and such is pure shit.

Come with me, Regfan.

UNVOTE: Starbuck
VOTE: SnowStorm

I'm no more fond of Starbuck than before,

but she is also not doing anything.

Now, if Feysal doesn't exactly feel like he has the material to keep the Starbuck lynch going, then why would he post something like this? If he is the stubborn townie who is absolutely convinced that he is right, then why would he back down now? My opinion is because he got distracted by a shiny juicy wagon and decided to follow it for a while. Yours is...?

UNVOTE: SnowStorm

Unchoose: Tyene Sand

Now, after wagoning a claimed mason, Feysal reanalyzes things a bit by unvoting, unchoosing, and presenting his case on Starbuck. But does he revote her? Nope. Instead, he presents the case for pretty much no reason (there were two solid wagons at that point and he commented on neither of them when he most definitely either could have or attempted to restart the Starbuck wagon on his own, but did not.
He eventually ended up voting bvoigt near the end of the day, which is good stuff but he pretty much dropped Starbuck to the wayside until someone voted scumhunter at the beginning of today. Hmmm...

And then, he's posted this:

Speaking of absurdities, watching this Thor wagon has been a constant experience of what-the-hell. No way I'm joining that, even to save my own life, even though I currently hate him for that speedlynch for yucks quip. You could not think of anything more discouraging to post, could you? Since seeing that I have done no more than skimming along. I don't much care to see what sort of abuse is in store for me in those posts I did not read.

Which makes sense because so many people are calling him town for his tunneling habits. Doesn't quite make sense to lynch him over yourself, but HEY.

Speaking of Feysal's tunneling habits, have you noticed that his frustration has been less about the fact that Starbuck was getting lynched and more about my attacks on him?
Yeah.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Minimum, I appreciate you. The first post you quoted was the basis of my townread for a while which was slaughtered after an in-depth reading of him, so I do see your point. But then there was this:

It's also the unbridled rage he manifests at having his Starbuck case doubted, and his reaction to the people voting him for what he sees as stupid reasons

Which I somewhat disagree with you on. Based on how strongly he felt about the Starbuck wagon, he let it go far too easy. He did not complain when he did let it go at the beginning (when he felt the strongest, presumably). Hell, he didn't even complain when the Scumhunter/Timeater wagon rose and fell. I probably just got done saying this, but I find it a scumtell when people are more indignant in their cases being attacked as opposed to the wagon on their scumread disintegrating.

Also sort of in that vein, he never really seemed to reread Starbuck or Scumhunter or Timeater; he just reused the intial case and said "welp, no one's done anything amazing so I am obviously right". Even now, I am rereading Feysal and going through his meta and looking through his posts and actually checking things, but I don't really feel he's done any of that.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

sorry I can't actually do anything today.
it just felt too good to be right and I'm stuck with sheeping today unless plum wants to pursue somethin.

maybe I can sheep Mina? yeah, that sounds good.

Vote: Thor665

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Hey. You. Just so you know, even when you are right, you are dead wrong. It would not surprise me to learn you were Aegon aligned, and desperate to save your only surviving ally. I hope you are town though so I can spit in your faces when Timeater inevitably flips scum. Don't even think about asking anything either.

;D
Of course I wouldn't ask you anything.
Dead wrong and right at the same time? How does that even make sense?
TRY HARDER SCUMBAG

reek, reek, it rhymes with freak

[Plums Yo Mamma]

You shouldn't be voting Thor, BB/Minimum/PlumNacho. Go reread Jal on D1, look at his reaction to people defending him. That is town paranoia; the scum reaction would be relief that someone is defending him even if they aren't part of his team.

I am sheeping for now.
Give me something better to sheep, and I will. I still think Thor is town, but I also don't want to put up with lazy Thor. This vote is good if I am wrong, and great if I am right. Those are my favorite votes.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

- PlumNacho isn't Aegon, traitor flip of Feysal and not actual killing scum doesn't point them against being Stannis. Will find out later.

you are a stubborn, stubborn man

[Plums Yo Mamma]

FUCKING NO
MAGUA IS TOWN DONT YOU VOTE HIM
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

and I've already managed to convince myself on thor being scum again
wagon ho, and all that jazz

[Plums Yo Mamma]

probably didn't know his scumteam
the specific neighborizer bit is probably 90% can only neighborize stannis scum and chit chat with them and shit
informed probably about some random dude
like ramsay!

Faraway: could you give feysal's vote to regfan in the votecounts? or are you just gonna make him automatically sheep reg forever, cuz that would be cool too.

on a side note, could we just quicklynch thor before he gets back?
when he does return I'm gonna doubt myself again and it's probably better for all of us if we just kill him now.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

on a side note, could we just quicklynch thor before he gets back?
when he does return I'm gonna doubt myself again and it's probably better for all of us if we just kill him now.

Why would you doubt yourself?

stop lurking

[Plums Yo Mamma]

claim fully
because right now your claim is sending up scum red flags

also why the fuck
what the fuck is a distraction

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I'm more onboard for the Tyrene without an 'r' lynch now.
Still want Zdenek dead too though.

never

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Unvote, Vote: AVox

[Plums Yo Mamma]

@Tyrene without an 'r'

BB sheeped AV, sooooo...AV is the scum due to bad play there...?

I'm leaning neither of them as scum - how about you sheep us for lulz?

or you can sheep me for lulz, and everyone can hold hands and sing songs as we lynch scum and have fun

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Peer pressure

be more peer pressured by me
and vote lemon

[Plums Yo Mamma]

He's doing that.

and you should too!

[Plums Yo Mamma]

That's a joke in a joke, isn't it.

@Plum/Nacho - read on Minimum and Zdenek pl0x?

Also, take on Day 1 Sapo wagon.

Minimum is town, Zdenek is town.
The Day 1 Salamence wagon was a decent wagon that didn't go anywhere because people were too busy pushing vanity wagons. At least one stanns scum on that wagon, I would bet.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Potentially even the point where claiming may hold of to tomorrow.

speaking of which, there's no way in hell we're claiming ever
mod is going to confirm our alignment at the end of this day, which means that you'll know we aren't fakeclaiming so
fuck that

[Plums Yo Mamma]

You're using choose on scumreads?! It gives an extra kill? MoI self-chose. Are you telling me it belongs on scummy players?!

this is the part of shenanigans that I did not like.
if you thought salamence was scummy for not moving his vote, wouldn't it be waaaay scummier if you saw him call someone else out for knowing too much and then choosing him for his top town read?

but yeah, we can lynch Lemon whenever.
i'll probably be dead tomorrow, but w/e.
we had a good run.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Magua

If you ever do that, I am strangling you to death with whatever the hell you guys have in Australia to strangle people with.
No.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I also have no fucking clue how many scum there will be, but if we lynch like 6 of those fuckers and the game is still going, then we can lynch Minimum. But not 'till then.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

timmy why are you going to make me lynch you?
i see it in the future and it is not pretty

[Plums Yo Mamma]

halp
i need a lemonlynch

halp
not just any lemonlynch

haaaaaalp

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I believe AV's power, I don't believe that he's Aegon aligned.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Tell you what.
Give me the weekend. I'll read as much of the thread as I can. If o fail to deliver or you still think I'm scum, Lynch me then.

It's not gonna be a dead detailed wall post but I'll at least give out some reads for you all to ignore once I'm dead.

this would be cool.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Here, there isn't even any decent amount of towncred to be won, so my conclusion is that the action choice is legitimately coming from Town.

except when you are asked to claim, and you can say "yeah, I protected that really townie power role N1 with my one-shot ability" instead of "no, I'm just VT". the question is if MoS would replace out after having a brilliant scumgambit like that under his sleeve, and his activity tells me yes, he would. He didn't invest too much in it, so it's better if a replacement takes up his reins and drives it a bit more to greatness.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

fuck I definitely lost that post.
and I knew I would fucking lose it because it's fucking 4 in the morning.

and guess who I lost my beautiful post to?
fucking SAPOERINT SCUM FUCK'S FAKECLAIM
FUCK
FUCK FUCK FUCK
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

Unvote, Vote: Timeater

fuck.
Regfan, double sheep me.
you promised.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

What changed between Post 3309 and Post 3312, Nacho?

A reread.
I see myself making fucked up reasoning in order to justify keeping my vote on an otherwise pretty solid claim, which is Nacho incorrectly tunneling meta 101. I come up with some Zdenek-crazy theories in order to justify some weird fucking scum scenario, and it is wrong so hard most of the time. I still think that AV is scum, but I think it's better that we head here for now and give the Lemon a pass, at least for the day. Because Timeeater is so fucking scum and I have been letting that slot go too far based completely on D1 play, and it's time to bring the hammer down on his scum ass. I would love to explain why, but I'm not probably not going to be able to repost that big fucking post until much, much later because I have decided to stay up all night and then am going to be out of town all weekend, so it will have to be done in chunks.

I'm honestly probably going to die tonight and it will be a sad affair and really really frustrating because I love this game a lot and have put my heart and soul into certain moments in it, so we are going to make the scum kill us. I have never wanted to lynch scum so badly as I have here because there were honestly a lot of impressive performances in this game and I do not want to piss any of anyone's (even Zdenek, even though he's crazy as hell) effort in this game. I wanna lynch scum, and I want to dance on their graves. Plus it would be so beautiful if Feysal's vote was used to lynch his scumsuspect after he was already dead because that would be hilarious. And I don't know what purpose the second paragraph had, but w/e.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

im here
will be rage posting in the morn

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I see we're still doing a shitty wagon on Starbuckeater. That sure is a thing. Wake me up when people want to lynch someone who isn't just derp.

Like Zdenek?
Why do you think that Zdenek is scum?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Can someone explain to me why Regfan is conftown? The whole double-voter thing aside.

^scum


quit bickering and lynch another scum
seriously, you don't have to make this so incredibly difficult for me all of the time.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

It's only being incredibly difficult if Zdenek is really town.
Otherwise you're making things incredibly difficult for me.

zdenek is really town, thor. I mean, doesn't your wagon feel dirty right now? Does it really feel righteous?

tierce please vote timeater.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

@Plum - my wagon feels scraggly, but the only 'non-rightous' vote I could even call out on it would be Timeater's - and, frankly, if his vote was non rightous he should be voting me as I'm probably the easier one to make happen if it's an attempt to save his backside/

Where do you see it being dirty?

Scraggly would be a much better term, forget that I ever said dirty.

with reasoning like this:

pretty sure zdenek is scum from how he switches to no longer wanting my lynch after I call him 'leaning town'.

orrr

I'd be willing to go after Zdenek at this point for continuing to push against stupid 'slip ups', or Magua for continually asking me stupid questions about why the obvtown is town.

to Tim's obvious survivalist reasoning, and we have one scraggly fucking wagon.

if his vote was non rightous he should be voting me as I'm probably the easier one to make happen if it's an attempt to save his backside/

I disagree with this. Zdenek won't rip into him like you will. If Zdenek flips town, he has ammunition against you. If Zdenek flips scum, he has towncred. As long as they aren't scum together, it's a win win situation for scum Timeater. Going after you doesn't have the same benefits.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

If you flip town, people will shrug and move on; they won't go after Zdenek. If you flip scum, Timeater won't get credit; Minimum and others who were pushing the Thor scum train harder yesterday will get credit.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

How are people not seeing Thorscum here? That back-and-forth with Zdenek was undoubtably an intentional distraction/waste of our time.

you are the only one I feel like interacting with.
vote timeater por favor.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

FIVE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS:

1)
Flipped scum so far are:
bvoigt (Aegon Goon)
Salamence20/Sapoerint (Informed Aegon Goon)

redff/DCLXIV (Stannis Goon)
Feysal (Informed Stannis Traitor)

2)
Pandora claimed Voyeur, Regfan is Cersei Lannister, Investigative Role, 4nxi3ty is JOAT, BBMolla is informed PR, Timeater is Jamie Lannister, VT, probably scum. Feysal has information on Jeyne Poole, but he's dead and no one cares.

3)
Don't bother reading me because I'm about to be confirmed town in a hot sec.

4)
Your predecessor's vote was really good, you shouldn't have changed it.

5)
If AurorusVox doesn't impress the fuck out of me today, he should be tomorrow's lynch.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

oh yeahhh, and AurorusVox claimed one-shot rolestopper that protected bvoigt

[Plums Yo Mamma]

yup yup, claimed roles were all from memory and so mistakes abound.

4nxi3ty, I won't comply with your request until you provide a not-shit case on Zdenek.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

possibly be lynched instead of your tim scumread.

hahahahaha
if you would like to step up that Zdenek case, then we can tango. but right now, I see many people who agree with me about him being obvtown and not so many people looking to defend tim, so the burden proof is on you, old buddy. if the winds begin to change, then yes I will explain my Zdenek read (in fact, I will put even more effort into reading him), but until then, it's looking pretty good for me right now.

kortul is town as fuck, though.

Apparently the deadline is in 4 days.
NO WONDER WHY I GOT OFFERED AN EXTENSION.

get going, cowboy

[Plums Yo Mamma]

This day is still going on. -_- I refuse to take part in this mockery of a votecount. STOP VOTING TIMEATER FFS HIS SLOT IS TOWN. What is wrong with you people? It's like you have ADD and you've forgotten the last five days happened and are settling for stupid wagons on idiots instead of looking for the god damn scum team! Either of the other two wagons would be better then this.

if Timeater flips scum, can I have your vote tomorrow?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

lol yeah lynch who the mafia tells you to, smart tactic i hear

good job guys, xD

hahahahaha, scum calls you scum in a multiball game, it makes you confirmed town
hahahahah
XD LOL

come on, timmy.
give me more. even if you are scum, you can help find the other scumbags.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Do we have any examples to support a Timeater = Aegon scum though?

Because he really likely isn't Stannis.

oh hell no he isn't stannis
but I think it's better for us to look at people's play instead of looking for connections.
because honestly, I can probably find connections for everyone at this point. hell, I could connect myself to stannis scum pretty handily.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

hmm?

Yes, my reads changed in 1000 posts. Please tell me you don't have issue with that.

Probably going to do some rereading in a day or so, I've been letting this day go on far too long without seriously pushing.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I'm still alive?
Means I fucked up somewhere, I suppose. Let's see if we can't make both scumteams shoot me tonight. Rereading tonight.

Thor, please stop fucking around. It's cool that you want Zdenek death, but there's more scum than one and I expect you actually do something today, okay?
Also probably going to hit up Plum before I make my next post, so I wouldn't expect anything substantial for about 48 hours. Please don't do something stupid before then.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

What will you do if Zdenek flips town?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

FUCKING CUT THE DOUBLE TUNNELING SHIT OUT NOW
ZDENEK WHO THE FUCK ARE YOUR SECONDARY AND TERTIARY SUSPECTS
GOD DAMN IT

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Fuck it, I'm going to be doing some serious, serious reading into both of you tomorrow.
And you better hope at least one of you is scum or else I am going to fly over to wherever the fuck you live and strangle you.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

tierce quit freaking out when people call you scum and focus on finding actual scum
love,
naccy

[Plums Yo Mamma]

COUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGH

get the fuck out

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Frankly, I have no idea, how someone with no suspects can possibly be obv. town.

Who are my suspects?
fucking everyone, pretty much
and yet I am still obvtown

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I've decided that Tyene is almost certainly a traitor, based on her use of the word traitorous on day one, and generally passive style of play this game. If she was recruited, it was on N1, by the Aegon faction, which isn't out of the question, considering the missing kill that day.

Also this seriously, seriously, seriously sucks.
You tried tying Tierce to Feysal initially, and then when he flips Stannis Traitor, you're all "WELP GUESS SHE'S AEGON" which is just fucking stupid.
the painting tierce as traitor train has passed a long time ago, it's time to start looking somewhere else.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

NO ZDENEK
ME

[Plums Yo Mamma]

when the hell did her read on feysal change

[Plums Yo Mamma]

STOP CALLING TIERCE SCUM GOD FUCKING DAMNIT

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I JUST CALLED HER TOWN GULL SMURF GOSH!

sorry thor
I think that I need to Otis Redding this bitch and treat this thread with a little tenderness.
plum is here, and is going to make things alright again

[Plums Yo Mamma]

sunday.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

sunday

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Okay, Plum and I are going through an intense discussion period right now, which is requiring a shit ton of rereading on my part and isoing and reading and all of that jazz. Please do not lynch in the meantime; what you should do, however, is discuss massclaiming. I've never exactly had a good feeling of when to massclaim before, but I note that none of the flips thus far have been a protective role (AV's one-shot rolestopping ability does not count even a little bit). I also note that people are starting to get down to the PoE stages, meaning that a massclaim can probably help tons. Pandora's useless ability can also work for confirming people who still have powers left while they are targetting the people they want to target, and reading kortul's ISO reminded me of something pretty interesting that I'm going to double-check right now, but might end up in confirmed scum if things don't pan out correctly. So, my vote is for massclaiming.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Anx, fullclaim your abilities.
That's the point of massclaiming.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Anx, fullclaim your abilities.
That's the point of massclaiming.

doing so would kinda make my ability pointless. what I have said so far should be enough for others to make an informed decision, if not I am willing to risk that at the moment.

Pandora, can I get your updated reads of zdenek and thor?

It's Day 6, and you're a claimed JOAT. If the only relevant information that you have is that mockingjaye roleblocked Dolorus Edd N1 (why did you claim this, by the way?) and Regfan is Cersei Lannister (why did you claim this as well?), then you've been fucking up hard. You should have been using your strongest abilities early and saving the weak ones for later, and as a JOAT with (6+ abilities), you should have something to claim by now.

@Minimum: I personally don't think it's important for you if Anxiety refuses to claim today. Because then the lynch for the day gets a little more clear and you can have fun day actioning your way to greatness.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I don't have 6+ abilities, I only have 3, one of which that was active the other nights but hasn't been used up.

jesus christ anxiety your claim quite will clear 3 people if you aren't pulling a partial gambit here
i just need you to come out and SAY IT

Minimum, you may claim whenever

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Anxiety, I cannot explain to you or else it would be counterproductive.
Please trust me.
Please.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

ACTUALLY
I see where claiming can be counterproductive for town in your position. I don't see how it's

as

counterproductive for Minimum to claim, and I specifically want her to claim so you can explain why you don't want her to claim, and you can also explain this:

massclaim is a good idea.

and all of your other pushes for massclaim when you knew that you weren't going to fullclaim.

that's reasonable enough, correct?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

or neither because we have cleaning to do

right after Minimum claims! ^.^

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I was responding to BBMolla, dear.
Don't be so quick to jump the gun (or the sword or whatever) ;D

[Plums Yo Mamma]

but I made you doubt yourself, and that's what counts

[Plums Yo Mamma]

so essentially you're a godfather checker, which is not really that useful but funny as hell

[Plums Yo Mamma]

when me and plum are done chit chatting, one of us will make a post

[Plums Yo Mamma]

you can post your huge post!
it won't make me cry any

or even your huge half-finished post

[Plums Yo Mamma]

the joke is that mace is hungry for power but not that competent, so he's placated with things that will be useless in the end
things like the title of a cop but the uselessness of being paranoid

idk that's my guess, so I'm going with it
but Plum's smarter than me and can give a guess that isn't a WIKIPEDIA guess

[Plums Yo Mamma]

not quite, because Day Paranoid Cop.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

plum will be posting our conclusions later tonight
pandora claiming qyburn doesn't change our conclusions that much, but pandora can still claim whatever the fuck

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Hello people. Here are our conclusions. Break out champagne or something, and thank Nacho because this is mostly his good work. We have done the analysis of claimed roles, we have done the PoE, and we're pretty sure of stuff now.

PEOPLE WE NEED TO LYNCH

4nxiety

: Rolecop/Roleblocker in a JOAT package makes no sense for Town given the Roose Bolton Torturer role and the Skinner Non-Consecutive Roleblocker role - it is seriously the same idea as Torturer. Nacho points out that flavorwise and role-wise, the synergy between the two previously flipped roles is clear, and the JOAT doesn't fit into it at all (doesn't fit the larger picture of power distributions either). Nacho speculates that he has Bulletproof in his lineup.

Thor

: We do not need to make a case on this thing anymore. He's been pushing Town-Zdenek for a really long time, and moreover he's made it pretty bloody obvious that it's disingenuous and that he's scum. I may do a nice rant post about this later, if people want funtimes with Plum.

These two die. There is no argument on this. These two die.

PEOPLE TO LYNCH AFTER THOSE SHOULD THE GAME NOT HAVE ENDED

Now we're not certain how big the scumteams are - if it's three apiece, good (part of me at least doubts it, though). If not:

Minimum

and

kortul

. I personally urge lynching kortul if the two above are dead and the game isn't over - but it's a read Nacho and I disagree on, and the breakdown lays it on these two anyway. Minimum's role is very plausibly Faradayish, and we don't have strong skepticism about it ending up in Mina's hands - plus it mirrors the Frey Cop role somewhat.

MAGUA

Nacho and I think his play shades pretty Town. If it comes down to it, he's the equivalent of the bottom of our Townlist.

PEOPLE WHO ARE TOWN

Zdenek

: It's doubtful Feysal knew his team's fakeclaims, so him Specifically Neighborizing to Jeyne Poole is probably truth - and Jeyne Poole is obv not Aegon.

BBMolla

- Obvtown, one of only two claimed or flipped protective or protected roles. Tried to draw the kill multiple times. Need we continue?

AV

- Only truly protective role, synergizes well, as we have seen, with Torturer. The way his slot used the power, and how clear it is means he's Town. For sure.

Pandora

- Confirmed Tammy's Motivate of Minimum, so she's confirmed Voyeur - and Town opposite to Town power (Andrius) here is sensible, while scum opposite to his power isn't.

Tyene

- Is just obvtown and "should never die ever ever ever". Words to live by, from Nacho.

VOTE: 4nxiety

Tell your friends. Don't forget that Thor gets lynched tomorrow. Nacho can give an even better and more interesting breakdown of how Town roles synergize and why what fits the pattern, which gives more depth to the conclusions than my summaries will give. Ciao.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

dammit nacho, i am town, and i have a one shot bulletproof that can't be used the same night as other abilities.

Nacho speculates that he has Bulletproof in his lineup.

;D
hit 'em with a headshot
keep the votes coming, please

[Plums Yo Mamma]

dammit nacho, i am town, and i have a one shot bulletproof that can't be used the same night as other abilities.

Nacho speculates that he has Bulletproof in his lineup.

;D
hit 'em with a headshot
keep the votes coming, please

Oh yeah.

Thor, you're confusing me with someone who doesn't realize you're scum on your own merits. You're getting lynched.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Thor, you're confusing me with someone who doesn't realize you're scum on your own merits. You're getting lynched.

Except I'm not scum, so you're making a derp claim here.

Again, he is calling me out for my reads. Besides not thinking I am scum (and shock!) and having flipped opinions on Zdenek and Anxiety...our reads are identical.
Discuss.

The time for discussion is over, Thor.
Now is the time for lynching Anxiety.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Ramsay Bolton was a Torturer, which is a roleblocker/rolecopper (so every night, he both roleblocks and rolecops his target). Skinner was a non-consecutive roleblocker. Anxiety is claiming to be a JOAT with a rolecop AND a roleblock at his disposal, not to mention yet another bulletproof (even though that town power has already been given to Kevan Lannister). In order for us to believe in Anxiety town, we have to believe that Faraday looked at this cool new role he invented, the limited bulletproof in Kevan Lannister, and the extra limited roleblocker he created in skinner, and went "No, this isn't enough town rolecop/roleblock/bulletproof. I need MORE."

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Randyll Tarly as a JOAT makes a lot more sense than Kevan Lannister as an...I...don't even know what. The "plot armour" is stupid in itself (although...he...does survive to the epilogue). But I need to reread the epilogue of ADwD, and I don't recall Kevan having any knowledge of Aegon's forces being divided. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I also don't think it's completely unheard of to give someone a one-shot ability similar (although I agree that multiple roleblocking-jailkeeping interactions are ugly, and Faraday hates that).

Flavorwise, it makes sense for Kevan Lannister to be a threat to Aegon-scum.
So, how exactly are you going to do that? Give him information about Aegon, and make sure that Aegon isn't able to kill him immediately. Cool. It also makes sense because Grand Maester Pycelle will not be able to save Kevan in role interactions in the game, most likely. It's a one-shot ability, and plot armor wears out on N4, so most likely, Kevan will be vulnerable and no one will be able to save him. THIS makes sense flavor-wise.

Setup-wise, it makes sense to put the non-consecutive roleblocker with the Torturer. The torturer is a powerful role, and because it is so powerful, it most likely will not survive late into the game. But late-game is where roleblocking excels, so the non-consecutive roleblocker is added in so it can get a couple of innocents once the scumteams go down. But a JOAT? With a rolecop, a roleblocker, and a one-shot bulletproof that isn't used up when it doesn't work? That's to make sure one player doesn't have strong reads that can fuck you over, kills one power role, and makes sure you survive one crosskill. And AV's rolestopper can specifically work to fuck that one-shot roleblock over.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

...actually, no, unless Faraday has changed his modding style.

Faraday gives safe NAMES, and writes you flavoured PMs when you ask for it. He doesn't actually suggest a particular ROLE for you to fakeclaim. So if Anxiety is fakeclaiming JOAT or BBmolla...whatever he is, they personally came up with the roles themselves.

There probably is scum in {BBmolla, 4nxi3ty, AurorusVox}, though.

AV has the only active protective role in the game.
BBMolla has claimed bullshit flavor for Kevan Lannister. BBMolla is smart enough to ask for a flavoured PM if he is scum, but doesn't really care that much because he's town so he's going to heavily paraphrase. Also has bulletproof.
AV has the only active protective role in the game. HE IS NOT SCUM.
4nxi3ty has claimed one-shot powers that THREE OTHER PEOPLE have claimed/been proven to have before him.
The choice is as clear as day.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

BBMolla has claimed bullshit flavor for Kevan Lannister.

Explain?

bullshit flavor = "lazily given" flavor

[Plums Yo Mamma]

magua can you please tell mina she is being paranoid as fuck and need to get on this sweet wagon and let AV hammer
I would prefer we go out with an all town wagon on scum, just because that would be super fucking sick

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nacho, isn't a one-shot jailkeeper that's part of a JOAT's toolkit essentially the same amount of protective power as a one-shot rolestopper? Never mind that I'd argue a one-shot (or four night) bulletproof is a lot stronger in the way of protective power than a single-use rolestopper. With masons, I could see Faraday relying on passive ways to block the nightkill rather than a doctor.

No. A one-shot rolestopper allows a claimed PR to use their power for one more night (no roleblocks, no redirects, no NOTHING) and still be protected, which is HUGE when we're talking about a role as powerful as the Torturer. Bulletproofs are not as powerful because it's a crapshoot; will the bulletproof fall into a strong town player's hands, or a weak town player? It makes too much of a difference, so there needs to be *something* that can actively protect that outed PR claim.

(But we could rationalize anything by set-up speculation. My opinion is based in large part on my finding 4nxi3ty's play less scummy than AV's and BBmolla's--although the latter gets some town points for the sheer WTF-factor.)

Rationalize Anxiety's role using setup speculation.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

The hydra partner and I are currently arguing about something, but silly question. Plum's Yo Mamma, I assume using our day action on you would be a waste of time, right? (Well, not like it's less of a waste of time targeting someone else.)

It would be a hilarious waste of time.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

ITS A PARANOID DAYCOP JOKE
GOD DAMN IT GET BACK ON 4NXI3TY

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nacho, calm down. We can at least get this explained.

I just wanted to inspire more panic and confusion with the caps.
In reality, I'm laughing my ass off.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I was hoping Mina would hammer Anxiety for me by the time I left to go adventuring around the world. But if you won't do it for me, do it for Regfan!

Cersei took another deep, deep drink of the wine she kept by her bedside. She had not cared much about the death around her so far; there were a number of necessary sacrifices to keep the Lannisters on the throne, and those sacrifices were being made. But the latest had a profound effect on her. With Jamie and Qyburn's champion gone, there was no longer anyone who she truly trusted to keep her and her children safe, except Plum and Nacho, obviously. She smiled wryly as she felt the knife in her back. She knew it would happen; you can't live long when you're right. "It's my dying wish that

Minimum

hammers

4nxi3ty

the day after my death to avenge me because he is the scum who just killed me!"

Regfan(Cersei Lannister, Vanilla Townie with a will that Minimum is obligated to carry out and a member of the

Lannister

Allia

nce

was killed Night 6

pedit: That's totally a better reason than what I just posted, but I wanted to honor regfan by throwing his dead body at 4nxi3ty before I stopped posting for a while.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

kortul won't be back from his business trip for three more days, and I'd feel sad to lynch scum without him.
so you may all discuss what a scumbag that Thor fellow is.