Open 573: C9++

[Heartless]

VOTE: sthar8

yep

yep again

[Heartless]

so

gifhydra is scum

that's cool

[Heartless]

massive and anenien are scum too

just fyi

[Heartless]

nah

i just hate sthar's face

[Heartless]

VOTE: death stare

[Heartless]

hey sthar

want to talk to me about giffy hydra for a sec?

[Heartless]

alsoalsoalso

you know when i called anenien and massive scum?

i actually didn't

you dreamed that

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

What anime is your avatar from? If it is good I may unvote you. Doubt it though because I wish you didn't talk so much.

Kantai collection. Also if you think this is me talking too much, guess again. I'm actually trying to be real tame this game bc the last game was disheartening.

I am 99% positive the deadline we see is the one for confirmation.

VOTE: wgeurts

1. We no lynch if we don't have majority.
2. Your vote is just you trying to look town.

Yes this is a serious vote.

Bad.

I am 99% positive the deadline we see is the one for confirmation.

VOTE: wgeurts

1. We no lynch if we don't have majority.
2. Your vote is just you trying to look town.

Yes this is a serious vote.

You too?
Why the bloodlust? The fact youre randomly changing targets is suspicious aswell.

Randomly? Are you serious right now? I just gave a reason so it isn't random. If I wasn't convinced you were scum, I am now.

Classic "ooh I found my REAL reason to keep the vote on you!" schmidt.
Bonus point for this happening after nacho calling him out for making a bad vote.

I'm saying first we should pressure them to see how they react and base our judgement off that.

but we WERE pressuring Death Stare so you're saying pressure someone besides Death Stare?

What did you think of his reaction to getting wagoned?

meh, Death Stare is still prob scum though but sure

vote:wgerts

Even though you do this in basically every game ever, you jumped too early on asking for my reaction to my wagon. You should've waited until more votes piled up.

Oh yeah, Death acted fishy but first we need pressure more and see defends him and pressure them, this could provide vital information. We just shouldn't Blitz-Lynch someone yet, first we need to squeeze juice out of them.

Lewd.
I don't remember acting all piscine though.

@mod I thought you were gonna do limericks for vote counts? That flavor is stupid. I want limericks.

wgeurts- i need you to devote all of your mafia-energy to getting a goddamn avatar please.

my nero vote is now serious.

i am slightly perturbed by the low number of rvs votes on me.

Why is that? How many votes did you expect on you and from which players?
Or are you just jealous that I stole your spotlight?

forced monkeyman angle+
ooooo "you shouldn't have unvoted us so soon we're so town hominahominahomina"

this is :scumposting:

[Heartless]

HEY NACHO AND MOLLIE

so, i think death stare and dave are scum.

am i
right?

or am i

wrong?

[Heartless]

heeeeeeey grayfox

whatcha' doin'?

[Heartless]

also on the docket for nachomollie

mtd

pwease

[Heartless]

I have no clue what DS is though his "I don't care what you guys think" post was odd, almost over confident.

where did this happen?

[Heartless]

nope

7

so what are you doing right now, wolf man?

[Heartless]

mollllliiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

my heart
breaks

</3

[Heartless]

Hello again sthar, massive.

It looks like I have a little catching up to do.

-TellTaleHeart (TTH)

[Heartless]

oh hey tth. anti was impersonating you earlier.

I just looked through our ISO and his shift key hasn't been touched once. You must not be paying attention.

-TTH

[Heartless]

A few things:

I'm concerned with Anenien's post 85 and post 98. From the self-deprecating humor and cheeky comments, I can tell he's trying extremely hard to be cute and disarming, but it's having the opposite effect on my read on him.

wgeurt's activity in the first few pages is also disconcerting, particularly post 94. No one advocated "blitz-lynching" Death Stare and I don't know what evidence he saw in the thread to lead him to that conclusion or why he's so seemingly hypersensitive about it. With lack of evidence to show that a "blitz-lynch" was ever

going

to happen, it feels like he's just making up a problem that doesn't exist in order to criticize it and appear town.

*sigh* I'm already not able to follow a few people. Namely: Antihero, sthar8, Death Stare

sthar

:
Why is your vote on Nero Cain "serious"?

Death Stare

:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that

after

Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

[Heartless]

Add

50 Shades of Purple

to the list of people I can't follow. You say your vote is staying on Death Note, implying that there is a

reason

for you to keep your vote there. Why?

I can see why Anti thinks davesaz is scum. Post 152 is very underwhelming and halfhearted, especially seeing that it distinctly lacks

follow through

. There's no questions about Nero Cain's play style directed at people who know him and there's no accompanying vote on Nero Cain to back up the accusations of empty "-ish" posting. The sentence on wgeurts being null is as uninformative as the rest of the post and the scope of reads (only 2 players) is extremely narrow.

tth what are you thinking wrt deaf stare?

I'm unsure, but you should ask me again after they explain why they're voting MonkeyMan.

I'm caught up in the reading and I feel like this game is really fragmented and hard to follow. Most of the major players are pretty opaque in their reasoning. This includes: sthar8, Antihero, 50 Shades of Purple, Death Stare, Nero Cain. It feels like the Death Stare is the divisive slot in this game and I'm not quite sure why since I don't see anything particularly offensive in their posting.
I would be very much for votes on davesaz or Aneninen. I'm going to need to talk to Anti about this.

-TTH

[Heartless]

the vote's yours if you want it, tth

[Heartless]

Alright, I talked to Anti.

You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.

He told me that there are missing links in the explanation because the whole thing is bullshit and there is go good explanation and Death Stare is pushing a scum angle.
I would really rather take it from the horse's mouth and let Death Stare explain the argument themselves.

In the meanwhile, I'd love to hear from sthar concerning his reads on Nero Cain and MonkeyMan.

Also, I'm moving the vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: davesaz

[Heartless]

I forgot to sign. Apologies.

-TTH

[Heartless]

antttttiiiiiiiiiii

why is your heart breaking

I am going to sign all of my posts "I love nacho".

iln for short.

because you're not posting

it makes me sad

alsoalsoalso, nachomollie

TTH is waiting on you to explain your death stare vote

prettypretty
please

mine

[Heartless]

hello dave.

my name is antihero. my hydra partner is telltaleheart (aka TTH). sthar sometimes portmanteaus that into "antiheart". if you see anything with the prefix "anti" though, it's probably referring to me.
you may also see sthar refer to telltaleheart as "antiheroine" at times

death stare is guyinfreezer (aka gif or giffy) and ankamius (aka ank). if i ever say "giffy hydra" i'm referring to death stare.

50 shades of purple is nachomamma8 (aka nacho) and pirate mollie (aka mollie). if i say "mollie," "nacho," or "nachomollie," i'm referring to them.

got it?

[Heartless]

alright, i'm on board with TTH's anenien scumread

[Heartless]

So, pretty basic low-hanging-fruit easy lynch hunting.

so what do you call what anenien's doing right now?

[Heartless]

hey TTH

you should

like

vote anenien

[Heartless]

nachomollie, please dance with me

i think anenien is a dirty rotten scumbag who needs a heaping helping of death
with a side
of mashed potatoes

agree or disagree?

[Heartless]

well it's not like... what?

not unseeing it, nc

[Heartless]

it was meant to be "well its not like I'm hard to understand. All you need is basis American and some shorthand/site jargon.

+

even if he voted me its not like his accusation would true."

but it ended up posting before I was done typing. I must have hit something.

ok....

the point being...........

[Heartless]

Watching pidgeon porn, forming bad meta reads, and lurker hunting?

Lurker hunting and pushing easy lynches are not the same thing, though they can come from the same motivation. I tend to give the former a pass on day1 because it has a net benefit for the town.

Actually I need to go check the games I've played with anenenenin for snark and aggression.

>pushes bulky case on you
>votes the lurkaderp

dirtyrottenscumbagdirtyrottenscumbagdirtyrottenscumbag

[Heartless]

Post-post-edit.
Oh syht, I knew I would leave out someone.
Wgeurts is lean town. His posts clearly show that he's been playing Mafia in a different way before – which is null. But, in my opinion, if he were scum he would post much less because he would try to avoid to make mistakes.

(Sigh) to make things clear, my readlist again (see my previous posts for details)

Probably town:

MTD, GrayFox

Lean town:

Wguerts, Heartless

Unsure/Unsorted:

Davesaz, Nero, DeathStare, 50Shades

Lean scum:

Monkeyman, Massive

Probably scum:

Sthar8, Stavrogin

^this is a scum reads list

First of all, can't we call the hydras their hydra names, pretty please? It's really confusing to follow things whenever someone refers to them by one of their heads.

As for the catch-up:

Spoiler:

Sthar8, 145 –

"nero and monkey are good lynches atm, but it was easier to leave my vote on nero than CHECK THE VC and CLICK THE TAGS BUTTON and PREVIEW MY POST."

– good

lynches

? Isn't it a bit strong on Page6? (Even if both of them were FoS at that point, as far as I can remember). By the way, I asked before and you haven't answered:

why are you sure that Nero is scum?

154 might have been an answer after all. Though, as GrayFox pointed it out in 162, a weird reason. (I mean, why Nero? Why not someone else?) Catch-up edit: also, see later in this post!
Also, why is it important to check the VC before voting for someone? The only reason for this I could imagine is if someone is near to lynch and I want to avoid derphammering them by accident.

DeathStare, 151 – well, thanks a lot, you're really helpful by doing that. ^_^

Davesaz, 152 –

"Reasoning can be a two edged sword for town. If you explain too much, scum can figure out how you're reading them and adjust accordingly."

– And we can read those changes too.

Nero, 159 – Wgeurts' gameplay is strange indeed but not an alignment-tell. By the way, have you ISO'd him on his home-site yet?

Heartless, 160 – Like wow, a naked vote! 164 Even if it was a joke, I suppose, you called Massive and me scum in 42. It's strange that you didn't remember your own post.

Wgeurts, 165 and in general – for Gods' Sake, vote for someone, pleeeease! A lot of us have been explaining that No Lynch doesn't help the town! Also, blitzwagons are very rare on this page. (In my very first game I thought that I might be blitzwagoned and lynched. Later realized I that I had been deeply wrong about that.)

Heartless, 169 – can you give some details about this? Maybe it's only me but I can't see the connection between the quote and your comment on it.

Nero, 176 – why do you think that Davesaz is scum? 'till that point he had hardly posted anything and he hadn't been the only one doing that. Self-note: as for DeathStare, I'll ISO them later because I'm unsure about their wagon; I want to find out whether they're scummy or the wagon is a scum-pushed one.

GrayFox, 180 – I agree with this post. Totally.

Sthar8, 191 – Uhhhh, I disliked this.

MTD, 207 – did that mean that you were townreading Sthar8? Or did that mean that you were understanding Sthar8's gameplay?

Heartless, 213/214/217 – lol, I've never been called "cute and disarming", nor "trying to be like that". Most people says that I'm fluffing on the first couple of pages and I've never denied that.

"*sigh* I'm already not able to follow a few people. Namely: Antihero, sthar8, Death Stare"

– OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Antihero is your other head! As for your questions for

Sthar8

,

DeathStare

and 50Shades: I too want to hear the answers for those. (In general, I liked the TTH-head catch-up. Seems to be genuine.)
Catch-up edit: DeathStare's one is found. It's quite vague, in my opinion. Sthar8's answer is found too if I'm doing my catch-up right and it has been 235. It may be genuine though, I don't think most of us consider Wgeurts a low-hanging-fruit. Though, they may have considered. And Nero jumped on the DeathStare wagon in 176. We should remember that later.

Monkeyman, 216 – can you re-summarize your case against Wgeurts? (My reason for asking this is more or less the same as DeathStare's one in 220, point 2.) 221 – eeeew, was that a joke?

50Shades, 223/224 – the latter one is a good question, but, in general, will you start providing some content, pretty please?

Massive, 225 – thanks,

that

post helped a lot. ^_^

Sthar8, 229 and some posts nearby, especially 248 later – please, stop doing this! Mafia is a f-cking game, attack the posts, the cases, the votes or whatever but don't attack the players themselves. We've known each other for a while and I've never experienced such a thing from you before.

Davesaz, 232 – this may or may not be true, we're going to find it out later, I suppose. 234 – Why did you dig up those posts? Nero has posted plenty of other things since those... 237 – as for the first part, we should remember this if either Davesaz or DeathStare flips scum. As for the second part: wow, I haven't realized that. What if it is a scumtell on Monkeyman? 242 – You're wrong here. MTD is most probably town.

GrayFox, 239–245 – did you really think that Sthar8 will post sooner or faster if you urge him? 16 minutes passed between the two posts I liked. Why the hell did you suppose that he had been online at all?

Conclusions. (Not many, but better than nothing)

Spoiler:

Probably town:

MTD (I'd been townreading him before and this hasn't changed)
GrayFox (though, the latest posts about urging Sthar8 is a thing I don't like)

Lean town

Heartless (the Antihero head was null-ish, but the TellTaleHeart head seems to be very town)

Unsure/Unsorted

Davesaz (his latest posts seem to be more-or-less townis, but there are disturbing things too, see above)
Nero (I can't read him. Some of this posts seems to be genuine scumhunting but some of them, especially his scumreads are weird)
Deathstare (either I'm unable to read them or their fluff/content ratio is very bad) – can someone summarize the case against them?
50Shades (very little content) – see the next comment here
Massive (technically no content) – I would like to see much more relevant content from both of you or else I'll think that you're lurking

Lean scum

Monkeyman (he was FoS in my eyes before and his later posts have only strengthened that)

Probably scum

Sthar8 (I don't like that he's not giving away his reasons for most of the time. His play was entirely different in another game – though, I must admit that he replaced into that game and my gameplay is different too if I'm a replacement. Also, 235 gave me some town vibes.)
Stavrogin (see my previous post for my reasons)

Also,

Spoiler:

You have been pigeoned! TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

^and

this

is a scum catch-up

[Heartless]

First of all, can't we call the hydras their hydra names, pretty please? It's really confusing to follow things whenever someone refers to them by one of their heads.

As for the catch-up:

Spoiler:

Sthar8, 145 –

"nero and monkey are good lynches atm, but it was easier to leave my vote on nero than CHECK THE VC and CLICK THE TAGS BUTTON and PREVIEW MY POST."

– good

lynches

? Isn't it a bit strong on Page6? (Even if both of them were FoS at that point, as far as I can remember). By the way, I asked before and you haven't answered:

why are you sure that Nero is scum?

154 might have been an answer after all. Though, as GrayFox pointed it out in 162, a weird reason. (I mean, why Nero? Why not someone else?) Catch-up edit: also, see later in this post!
Also, why is it important to check the VC before voting for someone? The only reason for this I could imagine is if someone is near to lynch and I want to avoid derphammering them by accident.

DeathStare, 151 – well, thanks a lot, you're really helpful by doing that. ^_^

Davesaz, 152 –

"Reasoning can be a two edged sword for town. If you explain too much, scum can figure out how you're reading them and adjust accordingly."

– And we can read those changes too.

Nero, 159 – Wgeurts' gameplay is strange indeed but not an alignment-tell. By the way, have you ISO'd him on his home-site yet?

Heartless, 160 – Like wow, a naked vote! 164 Even if it was a joke, I suppose, you called Massive and me scum in 42. It's strange that you didn't remember your own post.

Wgeurts, 165 and in general – for Gods' Sake, vote for someone, pleeeease! A lot of us have been explaining that No Lynch doesn't help the town! Also, blitzwagons are very rare on this page. (In my very first game I thought that I might be blitzwagoned and lynched. Later realized I that I had been deeply wrong about that.)

Heartless, 169 – can you give some details about this? Maybe it's only me but I can't see the connection between the quote and your comment on it.

Nero, 176 – why do you think that Davesaz is scum? 'till that point he had hardly posted anything and he hadn't been the only one doing that. Self-note: as for DeathStare, I'll ISO them later because I'm unsure about their wagon; I want to find out whether they're scummy or the wagon is a scum-pushed one.

GrayFox, 180 – I agree with this post. Totally.

Sthar8, 191 – Uhhhh, I disliked this.

MTD, 207 – did that mean that you were townreading Sthar8? Or did that mean that you were understanding Sthar8's gameplay?

Heartless, 213/214/217 – lol, I've never been called "cute and disarming", nor "trying to be like that". Most people says that I'm fluffing on the first couple of pages and I've never denied that.

"*sigh* I'm already not able to follow a few people. Namely: Antihero, sthar8, Death Stare"

– OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Antihero is your other head! As for your questions for

Sthar8

,

DeathStare

and 50Shades: I too want to hear the answers for those. (In general, I liked the TTH-head catch-up. Seems to be genuine.)
Catch-up edit: DeathStare's one is found. It's quite vague, in my opinion. Sthar8's answer is found too if I'm doing my catch-up right and it has been 235. It may be genuine though, I don't think most of us consider Wgeurts a low-hanging-fruit. Though, they may have considered. And Nero jumped on the DeathStare wagon in 176. We should remember that later.

Monkeyman, 216 – can you re-summarize your case against Wgeurts? (My reason for asking this is more or less the same as DeathStare's one in 220, point 2.) 221 – eeeew, was that a joke?

50Shades, 223/224 – the latter one is a good question, but, in general, will you start providing some content, pretty please?

Massive, 225 – thanks,

that

post helped a lot. ^_^

Sthar8, 229 and some posts nearby, especially 248 later – please, stop doing this! Mafia is a f-cking game, attack the posts, the cases, the votes or whatever but don't attack the players themselves. We've known each other for a while and I've never experienced such a thing from you before.

Davesaz, 232 – this may or may not be true, we're going to find it out later, I suppose. 234 – Why did you dig up those posts? Nero has posted plenty of other things since those... 237 – as for the first part, we should remember this if either Davesaz or DeathStare flips scum. As for the second part: wow, I haven't realized that. What if it is a scumtell on Monkeyman? 242 – You're wrong here. MTD is most probably town.

GrayFox, 239–245 – did you really think that Sthar8 will post sooner or faster if you urge him? 16 minutes passed between the two posts I liked. Why the hell did you suppose that he had been online at all?

Conclusions. (Not many, but better than nothing)

Spoiler:

Probably town:

MTD (I'd been townreading him before and this hasn't changed)
GrayFox (though, the latest posts about urging Sthar8 is a thing I don't like)

Lean town

Heartless (the Antihero head was null-ish, but the TellTaleHeart head seems to be very town)

Unsure/Unsorted

Davesaz (his latest posts seem to be more-or-less townis, but there are disturbing things too, see above)
Nero (I can't read him. Some of this posts seems to be genuine scumhunting but some of them, especially his scumreads are weird)
Deathstare (either I'm unable to read them or their fluff/content ratio is very bad) – can someone summarize the case against them?
50Shades (very little content) – see the next comment here
Massive (technically no content) – I would like to see much more relevant content from both of you or else I'll think that you're lurking

Lean scum

Monkeyman (he was FoS in my eyes before and his later posts have only strengthened that)

Probably scum

Sthar8 (I don't like that he's not giving away his reasons for most of the time. His play was entirely different in another game – though, I must admit that he replaced into that game and my gameplay is different too if I'm a replacement. Also, 235 gave me some town vibes.)
Stavrogin (see my previous post for my reasons)

Also,

Spoiler:

You have been pigeoned! TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

>the "catchup" is a bunch of snipey, cutesie comments that don't really say....... anything.
>OH DEAR, UR SO MAD about people saying hydra names and sthar being a smartass. i say humparumpadumpadump adusapj;lkjk;lf3woijrhfpoiewhjqfjpoiwqejfoqwjefopewqewqjp
>"lean scum", "lean town" /fart
>a million qualifiers for sthar's scum read that all end up going fucking nowhere: "i'm gonna use this and that meta, but it's totes different from this game; also this post is town"
>all that aaaaaaaaaaaand the vote ends up on...... mr. lurkaderp no posts
>the monkeyman read is an undeveloped turd sculpture (of course it's "lean" scum)
>50 shades magically gets a pass on this

very very serious and rigorous

"activity" standard because apparently we can't look at the playerlist and SEE WHO THE MAIN ACCOUNTS BEHIND THE HYDRA ARE. they're listed. right. there.
>nero's scumreads are so

weird

even though they all fall in the "null" section
>GOD EVEN THE TOWNREADS come with some shitty modifier. you don't like what about grayfox? something about urging sthar? do what now?

all this stuff spewed
about sthar being scum.
the vote never materializes and the scumread never crystallizes, though.

but then you start shoving this point about people selectively lurking and

that's

not even being applied consistently, so what the hell is it that's guiding your list making?

you are.
a scumbutt.

i will bug the shit out of TTH until she votes you.

[Heartless]

what the hell are you doing, massive?

[Heartless]

every time i look at this thread and don't see a 50 shades post

my heart breaks

twice

100 pieces of antihero heart.... /sigh

[Heartless]

sthar

do you have a pillow

i can cry into...?

[Heartless]

why do you care about trying to mindread tth?

[Heartless]

At least I made it page 14, I guess. Sorry about that.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Anenien kind of seems like the type of guy that really likes to hear himself talk even if he's not necessarily saying much.

[Heartless]

I'm tired so I'll comment on other stuff tomorrow.

Death Stare:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?

tl;dr
(reasons) = didn't bother to state them again after Nacho stated them already.
(something) = multiple factors. The timing of the post (as in, I think as town in general would say something about nacho's comment on his reason for vote being wrong first), and the tone of the post (the way he posted that post suggests that he was looking for other reason to justify his vote while silently ditching his first reason that nacho called bad).

I can actually follow that logic pretty well. You thought MonkeyMan was going after something that was easy to push and then shoehorning reasons in for voting wgeur after the fact. It seems very similar to the argument sthar8 is making.

every time i look at this thread and don't see a 50 shades post

my heart breaks

twice

100 pieces of antihero heart.... /sigh

ffs have patience, I haven't synched with nacho about this game yet

re: the only game I played with anem I mislynched him in lylo. it was his newbie game and I see the same tone he took there as he is doing in this game. he wants to be a teacher.

his pushes were awful, he was all worried about when the gm would flip lynches like I could not stay off of him and thought he was a terribad alt for the longest time. I am not willing to commit the same mistakes twice. but I totally get why you think he is scummy I just think we would actually have to see him as scum.

nacho voted deathy2 and I am waiting to connect with him about a couple of things. gun to head dave looks off. I have you guyz as firm town and if nacho flakes on me (which he better not) you guyz are who I will be centering around.

iln

If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.

Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?

I'm having a little trouble myself in orienting myself this game as well, mostly due to the distinct lack of townreads. The only townreads I have right now is MTD, Death Stare, and sthar8 (Antihero agreed with my MTD one last time we talked), but that's very inadequate. I need more and I need Antihero to be on board with them. Compounding this problem is that it feels like Antihero himself hasn't quite hit his stride this game. But I'm not sure; maybe he's right about Anenien and I'm just a blathering fool for doubting him.

The problem with the MonkeyMan case is that I'm not really sold on it. Monkeyman himself reads a lot like an awkward teenager and I think that's getting him votes, and I don't see anything particularly offensive in his ISO. If sthar could tell me more about his vote on MonkeyMan, I would appreciate it because I can't quite make it from Point A to Point B on this issue.

GrayFoxx is bothersome because most of his activity's been concerned with engaging in a petty slap fight with sthar8. I feel like at the core, GrayFoxx's push boils down to "sthar didn't explain himself

exactly when I wanted him to

" which seems like a very shallow reason to push sthar almost exclusively like he's done all game. Antihero's never told me that temporarily withholding explanations is a scumtell (in fact, I noticed that Antihero himself tends to do this as town

frequently

) and it doesn't feel like a good reason to adopt tunnel vision like GrayFoxx seems to have.

Nero Cain could really stand to be more transparent with his logic and arguments. His Death Stare vote seems very stale and I still don't quite understand it.

At first glance, davesaz's recent activity

certainly

has been better than his opening activity. I haven't really had time to mull them over yet, though.

-TTH

[Heartless]

*ugh*
I feel terrible not supporting Antihero, but I'm still indecisive. I'll have to look at this with fresh eyes tomorrow.

If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.

Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?

unfortunately yes.

I'm going to have to review Anti's points on Anen and see Anen's responses to them before I can have an intelligent conversation about this.
Without actually going back and reading the particular newbie game you're talking about, I'm guessing Anen acted in an antitown manner that made you get a false positive on him. You think that's what's happening with Anti in this particular case?

agree about star. disagree about md. agree about deathy2. agree about greyfox. disagree about nero. I think he is town. why can't he freaking be like this all of the time. disagree about daves.

When you say "md" are you referring to MTD? If so, I would like to discuss that read further. What do you see that makes you think he's scum?
I'm also interested in what you're thinking regarding MonkeyMan. To me, he's sending mixed signals.

-TTH

*sigh*
I'm not very good at this.

-TTH

[Heartless]

beep boop, raven.

Beep? Boop? What does this emote mean?

I'll get to MTD and MonkeyMan in a second *kind of frazzled right now*. Also need to get Anti in here.

You are still doing better than Anti-hero.

HAHAHAHAHA

Who wants to bet I get scumread by Antihero now?

Serious question: how old are you, MonkeyMan? (if you don't want to give me an exact number, approximation is fine)

-TTH

[Heartless]

Forgot about dave and Anen, they're also on the docket. *ack* I need more hours in the day.

-TTH

[Heartless]

@Heartless: Antihero-head: Remember Mini-1585. We had a town-vs-town fight there too. I think both of us had the same gameplay there. Need we make the same mistake again? FYI, if you hasn't checked the thread after you left, the end of the story was the following: we mislynched your replacement later (yes, I was on the wagon) and your replacement kept scumreading me too (I know that from the DeadChat). TTH-head: you can check that game or even better, you can ask your partner about it. Plus, why do you think Sthar8 is town?

oh, to simulate that game you need
"HURRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRRR you didn't read that post in 1 minute DUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

[Heartless]

stavrogin has apparently been in bed for the past 30 hours

[Heartless]

UNVOTE:

shit, i don't know tth what do you want from me?

[Heartless]

agree about star.

disagree about md.

agree about deathy2

agree about greyfox

disagree about nero. I think he is town. why can't he freaking be like this all of the time.

disagree about daves.

i'm with ya' onnnnnnnnnnn: sthar, maybe death stare, grayfox, nero

mtd i remember liking something he posted in his vote for anen

, haven't read dave either

[Heartless]

what are you hatin' on in dave's posts, mollie?

[Heartless]

mtd is kinda conditional

if anen is scum, mtd is probably town

but yeah
the recent activityfromMTDhas been really
active lurky

[Heartless]

You are still doing better than Anti-hero.

HAHAHAHAHA

Who wants to bet I get scumread by Antihero now?

lol

tth is the one scum reading you now, buster brown

[Heartless]

By little experience I mean: how is a hydra played? Do they have an agreement who posts at what time, or do they switch their heads by a certain time period or does it depend on the heads' timezones? I bet all hydras play in a different way, aren't they?

yes, all hydras play in a different way.

BUT. for us (this is how i played in helium-3 too) we talk about stuff outside the thread and generally just post whenever we feel like it.

[Heartless]

ewwwwwwwwwwww

i'm reading grayfoxx's iso and it's like

bathing

in
tub

full of
diarreah

[Heartless]

OK
HARD RESET

tth:

vote from [greyfox, monkeyman]
mtd would also be a pretty acceptable vote
great things will follow

probtown are 50shades,sthar8,deathstare,nerocain,wgeurrajjsrkel;jfthefuckisthisname?

[Heartless]

oh joy so now mtd's scumlist mirrors... mine

/fart

[Heartless]

@Heartless: Antihero-head: Remember Mini-1585. (Blah, blah)Plus, why do you think Sthar8 is town?

oh, to simulate that game you need
"HURRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRRR you didn't read that post in 1 minute DUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

The question I posted there has still been longing for an answer.
As for the other part: Coo-coo, coo-coooo-co, coo-cooooo-co? (In English: I didn't understand it.) By the way, thanks for the hydra-explanation.

MTD's lurking is a null in itself, he has been generally inactive before his latest post.

gut
also, that he's actually willing to sit and engage with fox through spoiler tags under an attack that's easily avoidable

MY TURN

why is grayfoxx town?

[Heartless]

Massive and both heads of 50Shades seem to be active elsewhere. Do you all still think that my "Early-lurking scums" theory is bullshyt?

there aren't any delicate ears here. you can say bullshit.

and yes.

[Heartless]

Sorry for bad formatting and sentence structure still on phone. My third paragraph is reffering to post 297.

Mod, I need to go on V/LA until Tuesday, life's a bit ridiculous at the moment.

(Haven't done this before, hope this is the right way to do it.)

Sorry everyone, everything's hectic at the moment. Will read and actually participate when I'm back.

well i don't know about anyone else but

I

JUST

CAN'T FUCKING WAIT

for the cascade of catchups from some people

[Heartless]

tth is taking too long

VOTE: grayfoxx

[Heartless]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee

TTH is gonna' looooove reading this

[Heartless]

Sorry for bad formatting and sentence structure still on phone. My third paragraph is reffering to post 297.

well i don't know about anyone else but

I

JUST

CAN'T FUCKING WAIT

for the cascade of catchups from some people

Why did you quote me?

because you have an outstanding catchup

LET'S HEAR IT

[Heartless]

One quick response to MTD. Did you even read 297? I wasn't reading wguerts, I was answering something he brought up regarding my vote. It's so obvious it's almost scummy that you scum read me on it. It's also so obvious I don't think I scum would try to flat out deceive the town like that.

Ok, I get it. I am not sure you (or me) understood wguerts post correctly then, though. I though he meant the votes

of

sthar and Anen, you apparently thought he meant the ones

on

them.

I wasn't the only person to get caught up on wguerts no Lynch post. He explained his self and I left it alone.

The post explains your other point about my early game read on sthar as well. Why is it so hard to see me pushing sthar?

You are right that I have tunneled him, so I'm going to reread everything and try and get other reads.

It isn't scummy for me to hard push sthar if I think he might be scum. My willingness to prove my point isn't a good enough reason for you to vote me.

Yup, that explains that I guess, only thing I have a problem with is that the original push on sthar by you was about a post you obviously misunderstood (as I said before), that

not really

being a good reason for one. The rest of the discussion was in my eyes mostly a waste of time and space, as discussions based on misunderstandings tend to be. But yeah, that's not enuogh atmo.UNVOTE:

@Anen: I would be happy about those links.

a turd
is floating

in my

glass of

water

[Heartless]

Oh why didn't he say that.

No really I want to know specifically what he is curious about.

i'm curious about

anything

you have to say outside sthar or mtd's vote post

actually i'm pretty curious about what you have to say about mtd in general

but i won't limit you

[Heartless]

Also, the coloration in 528 is close to breaking rule #19. It does not break this rule. As a friendly reminder, do not attempt to hide text. Again, no rule has been broken and no problems currently exist; I just don't want problems to occur later.

psh

silver's for losers

dark's where it's at

[Heartless]

tsk tsk tsk

Well, Antihero's not going to happy with my latest scumread: 50 Shades of Purple.

-TTH

[Heartless]

tsk tsk tsk

Well, Antihero's not going to happy with my latest scumread: 50 Shades of Purple.

-TTH

X

time to sync

[Heartless]

OK

nacho/mollie you're going to be spending some quality time w/ TTH

[Heartless]

*overwhelmed*

Forget trying to address everything at once...

Nacho or mollie: Let's start with the GrayFoxx read. Could you please articulate that town read for me?

-TTH

[Heartless]

ya' knowwwwww

i'd actually really

love

to hear about that
death stareread

myself

[Heartless]

/yawn

nothing from grafoxx and massive's catchup was pretty boring

[Heartless]

...and kinda' scummy

[Heartless]

Nero Cain

: Please elaborate on your Death Stare scum read. I looked back at your activity and I get that you don't like their early "spam" and a few other isolated things, but what

overall

is giving you a scumread on that slot?

Like Anti, I'm not a huge of massive's post 593. I read a lot of words, but I didn't come away from it learning that much about massive himself. He kind of hints as being suspicious of Nero Cain, but he never addresses it outright.

(Happy to see an engineer, though)

-TTH

[Heartless]

[
greyfoxx
(monkeyman?)
(MTD?)
(Anen?)
massive
]

//////
///////
///////////
////
///////

[Heartless]

In risk of sounding OMGUS take a look at 50s original reads on me then look at the current reads on me.

...
...



huh?

[Heartless]

idk...didn't know I was voting him right now.

You don't know, as in you're not suspicious of Death Stare anymore or... what? This recent post makes me think you still think Death Stare is scum, that's why I even asked about it in the first place.

Spoiler:

But honestly, I'm not really interested in talking with Nacho really anymore since at best we're just running in circles around each other.

-Ank

so bus him.

you seem to be unable to distinguish the difference between nacho and I. HE is the 1 who called you town the first time. I agree with him. in xmen I didn't call you town cos I knew you, muffina and I were on the right track and I didn't want you nked. in this game I don't give a shit cos you are being a dick. <---- this will make me lose interest every time.

Please don't check out. I can't really figure out your logic, so that's what I'm trying to get at right now.
You think it's GrayFoxx, Nero Cain, and who else? How did you reverse your Nero Cain read? I'm a little out of the loop since I don't know what happened in the previous game (and I'm probably not going to look at it). Is there an established pattern you two talking about or just that one game?

What is that even?

Also, your old avatar was better. This one has more of a maleficent feel to it.

(Well I, for one, think the purple is fabulous, thank you very much.)
I'm guessing that was Anti's suspect list. I could see GrayFoxx and maybe massive, but my "question mark" positions are occupied by you, 50 Shades of Grey, dave, and MTD for varying reasons. As for the brackets and slashes... I don't know. My brother is weird.

Let's talk for a second, MonkeyMan:

It feels like you're all over the place. You voted wgeurts first, then voted Anenien for not picking up your sarcasm and now you're voting Death Stare for... some sort of other perceived "scumslip." You seem to be so missing the forest for the trees and your voting pattern seems to be based on reactions to single posts. What's you overall (global) impression of the game so far?

Well, I wanted to hear from sthar, but it looks like that's out of the question until Saturday.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Y'all are having real trouble keeping track of who the votes are on.

Nero is voting 50 Shades. MonkeyMan is voting Nero. But the discussion is continuing as if they're both on DS. What's up with that?

I'm still on Nero because his current vote on 50 was without explanation, and I want to draw more attention to this because 50 only warrants a ? on Nero's scum list.

monkeyman is not voting nero. he's voting death stare.

[Heartless]

I think he thinks that he's an easy target and Mollie's scumread on him is taking advantage of that. I also he (much like Amen) notices that I'm the dominant head at the moment and thus we are not changing our reads in order to follow game flow.

grayfoxx
didn't mention mollie at all

, he was talking about

YOU

and your push on MTD being the low hanging fruit vote.

[Heartless]

i admittedly didn't read grey fox's posts very closely but the conviction and indignation alone seems town enough

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Do you disagree???
Why do you think he is scum, dear Antihero?

[INTERRUPTION]

[Heartless]

50 shades seems the most scummy right now. In risk of sounding OMGUS take a look at 50s original reads on me then look at the current reads on me. Has also pretty much tunnelled mtd all game after disagreeing with an early read MTD made. Also going after inactives to seem like he is still looking for more scum. I think he is picking low hanging fruit that anyone could grab.

this post is hard to parse, BUT I DID IT
the argument is that
1) nacho went after MTD for shit reasons (disagreeing with anen read)
2) nacho pokes lurkers (i.e.-massive)
3) the reads progression on him is bad (product of hydra dissonance)

now

is mtd scum?

[Heartless]

i admittedly didn't read grey fox's posts very closely but the conviction and indignation alone seems town enough

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Do you disagree???
Why do you think he is scum, dear Antihero?

there's the fact that there 46 posts in his ISO and most of them are about some puerile fight with sthar over ... walls of liquid shit
then you're apparently another scumread of his. literally

everything else

(nero, death stare, monkeyman) is left out AND WHY
because
OMGZ SO MUCH RAEG over sthar and him not giving "reasons"

the attention seems badly misplaced and disproportionate to sthar's "offense"

i guess that gives you the warm fuzzies, nacho, it doesn't me
. i'm kinda' shocked you had NOTHING to say to him calling your mtd case a low-hanging fruit grab.

[Heartless]

there's also our old friend mtd here who spat out a case on grayfoxx, bailed on it the next post (even though the fundamental question of WHY THE LIVING FUCK ARE YOU TUNNELING STHAR OVER THE STUPIDEST SHIT?) remains woefully unanswered, aaaaaaaaaaand starts making the trip back to the active-lurkerdom from whence he came

[Heartless]

ok, spent the last few minutes thinking about massive's case post 601 on NC and SURPRISESURPRISE

it's nonsense

[Heartless]

ok nacho, i still don't get your deal with death stare.

he confused monkeyman in this game with the "famous" monkeyman from other games (bad meta) and that's why he started sheeping you.
i don't know, i'd have to sit down and parse their stuff, which i don't have time to do because i have to go right now.

toodles

[Heartless]

ok, spent the last few minutes thinking about massive's case post 601 on NC and SURPRISESURPRISE

it's nonsense

I'll tell you what's nonsense, your ability to properly enumerate the post you're linking to (it's 610).

So what part of it is nonsense? The actual steps / links I link to Nero's changing read, or the conclusion?

...
i really don't know what you're talking about with the "changing read" stuff or how even GET to the conclusion "nero is scum."

what's the bottom line here and what's your point because all i'm seeing now is this floating line of logic that goes "nero's read PROGRESSION is bad and there's a contradiction" when what you're pointing out yourself clearly doesn't point to that. is that even true? what's your issue with the reads progression? has there even been progression?

[Heartless]

I don't find people pitching a shit fit over things that matter to be a reliable indicator of scum, never have. Only focusing on a couple of people after doing whatever strange things he did with sthar8 isn't necessarily surprising to me based on. the type of person the Fox seems to be.

????

maybe
maybe not

depends on what the catchup looks like

[Heartless]

you know what my face looks like

._.

[Heartless]

I don't pls share

eh

mollie or nacho can tell you

[Heartless]

so nacho,

what's your read on massive attack here?

[Heartless]

ok

so i'm slogging thought death stare and the monkeyman push is meh
but it didn't bring me any closer to getting on the same page with nacho

where's the center of gravity of nacho's hate?

[Heartless]

is it this?

Spoiler:

You are right. I shouldn't try to lynch the new scum. I should give them a break since they are new and everything. Why would anyone ever lynch someone because they think they are scummy?

UNVOTE:

this post is also town as balls

BTW, I'd really like an explanation on this because everything about this post pings.

-Ank

This post is expressing a deep frustration that no one is listening to him and the unvote is the manifestation of his frustration. If he were scum, this would be him going balls out to lynch someone no one wants to lynch. I don't think that's what this is. Why does it ping for you?

1. He blatantly ignored practically everyone else who expressed that they found this behavior bizarre, but the moment I posted (his other expressed scumread), it caused him to unvote.
2. He didn't vote anyone else. Voting this slot immediately would've been very very town, but just pushing for another angle would've been pretty town too.
3. The satirical explanation makes no sense.

[Heartless]

idk as in I'm doubting myself. All of Massive, sthar, dave look really scummy and Mollie hydra and wegurts are still p suspicious to me. Stav is a totes unknown. That's already six and I'm more confident that scum is in the first 5 so GIF gets a pass today.

sthar? Why is sthar scummy?

I'd also be happy if tth talked to me and not just Mollie but I guess I don't matter to anyone :'(

But I do want to talk to you! You're an enigma to me, nacho. I'm just not very good at this game and I don't know what to ask.
What's so striking to me is how you and Anti seem to be on two different wavelengths, though. I need to touch base with him again to ask him what he thinks of your posting from today.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Nero, you just told everyone who you are killing.

Hello MonkeyMan

. I would greatly appreciate it if you would talk to me because you're another slot I'm having trouble with.

Let's talk for a second, MonkeyMan:
It feels like you're all over the place. You voted wgeurts first, then voted Anenien for not picking up your sarcasm and now you're voting Death Stare for... some sort of other perceived "scumslip." You seem to be so missing the forest for the trees and your voting pattern seems to be based on reactions to single posts. What's you overall (global) impression of the game so far?

-TTH

[Heartless]

I just quoted it for you!

Here, I'll do it again:
Let's talk for a second, MonkeyMan.
It feels like you're all over the place. You voted wgeurts first, then voted Anenien for not picking up your sarcasm and now you're voting Death Stare for... some sort of other perceived "scumslip." You seem to be so missing the forest for the trees and your voting pattern seems to be based on reactions to single posts. What's you overall (global) impression of the game so far?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Wrguets is still scum. That isn't going to change but I am the only one to see it. Anen I felt was pushing an unbelievable angle, by that I mean I don't think he even thought what he was saying wasn't bull. Death did just slip. I am pretty sure they considered me as scum and yet said that Nero would be WKing me.

You did, I completely missed it.

I should really get some sleep now.

-TTH

[Heartless]

"Whiteknighting" is a slip? How so?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Your wgeurts read seems very stale. Do you have anything to say about his recent activity?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Speaking of stale reads, I really need to catch up on davesaz. I see he's voting Nero Cain and I'm curious to see why.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Because despite the definition they posted WhiteKnighting in mafia is primarily when scum jumps to the defense of a town person to look more town when said town person flips. That would mean they know I am town even though they think I am scummy.

So that would, in turn, implicate 50 Shades of Grey?

-TTH

[Heartless]

I don't know. I think that argument is specious.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Are you sure, MonkeyMan?

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

-TTH

[Heartless]

I'll talk to Anti about this tomorrow morning hopefully. With any luck, we'll hear from MTD, GrayFoxx, and Stavrogin soon.

Good night, all.

-TTH

[Heartless]

what's the bottom line here and what's your point because all i'm seeing now is this floating line of logic that goes "nero's read PROGRESSION is bad and there's a contradiction" when what you're pointing out yourself clearly doesn't point to that. is that even true? what's your issue with the reads progression? has there even been progression?

Nero's claim: He thought wguerts was scummy all along, from his vote to the present.
My belief: His early vote and interaction with wguerts don't read as him believing wguerts is scummy, and he's backfilling these posts with "scumhunting intent" to match his current scummy read of wguerts.

It's not a progression. A progression would be like "oh yeah, I was curious on his answer to a couple of things and then had more questions on the answers and then I eventually got to him being scum." Which -- you could possibly get to reading Nero's posts. But him saying "nope I always thought wguerts was scum, go look at my vote" doesn't match up with the actual posts to him.

HOLYSHIT
MORE FLOATY LOGIC THAT DOESN'T LEAD ANYWHERE

what are you even talking about anymore massive?

[Heartless]

Nero's claim: He thought wguerts was scummy all along, from his vote to the present.

where did this happen?

[Heartless]

did i just lose track of the original context or something?

why am i being sent to all these links that imply a scumread on wgeurts and then i'm told "there's no scumread on wgeurts"?

this better start making sense soon, massive.

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

I think honestly it's the progression of your read on wguerts that is worrying to me. Unlike Monkey who immediately jumped on, your read has progressed from "hey, maybe they do it differently on someothersite.com" (122) to "I don't like being called bloodthirsty" (201) to "having a guy scum reaction" (334). AND on top of that, you try and tie your earlier wguerts opinion retroactively back into thinking he's scummy (see 525), when none of your earlier interaction with him reads as you thinking he's scummy at all.

Why are you pretending like I wasn't voting him in 83?

It's a throwaway vote and you spend the whole post talking about how Death Stare is scummy and not wguerts. Are you saying you want us to believe you found wguerts legitimately scummy at this point?

Are you kidding me right now? The first sentence of 83 is me saying why I disliked wegurts post. The only part about DS was the last sentence. I don't think town would misrep me like that. You are also implying that I'm scum but not using your words. None of that comes from town.

I'm saying first we should pressure them to see how they react and base our judgement off that.

but we WERE pressuring Death Stare so you're saying pressure someone besides Death Stare?

What did you think of his reaction to getting wagoned?

meh, Death Stare is still prob scum though but sure

vote:wgerts

ok, yes

you're proving my point for me...

[Heartless]

Misinterpretation =/= misrepresentation. Does everyone think that Massive's case was a (1) blatant misinterpretation or an (2) intentional misrepresentation?

oh hey anen

sooooo TTH tells me she thinks you're town and when i talk to her tonight i'm going to ask her why and
JUST REVEL IN THE ENSUING SILENCE

IT'LL BE SO

MUCH

FUN

[Heartless]

massive

walk me through your case like i'm an

amoeba

because with thing you're pointing to right now saying "there's no scum-read on wgeurts" it looks EXACTLY like a scumread on wgeurts to me. plus, scum motivation and context would help because that looks lacking.

[Heartless]

hey nacho while i gotcha' here

why are you townreading anen?

[Heartless]

we're still getting stung along by:

grayfoxx
mtd
stavosomethin'somethin' slot

massive remains boringly scummy by continuing to talk

at

me instead of

to

me

[Heartless]

...and anen continues to remain irritatingly clueless...

[Heartless]

and another thing. Heartless had asked me about my read on sthar. He also started accusing me of bussing wegurts which I felt was really strange. He's calling me scum for attacking wegurts but its like "oh, if he does flip scum then you are bussing him." That comes from town?

yeah

scum already have the inside knowledge. why not use it?

[Heartless]

prodprodproddodge

hey tso

tth was/is taking a break from this game for a few days

i just can't muster enough fucks to give right now

i'll probably do this game sometime tomorrow

[Heartless]

Hello TSO!

I will also probably be working on this game tomorrow. I've taken a break because I feel like coming back to the thread with a rested mind would do some good. Plus, it feels like a majority of this thread is on vacation anyway.

-TTH

[Heartless]

heartless - I think anti screams town cos he reached out to us HARD but I am less enthusiastic about tth cos why has she not gotten back with us. like when you poke some1 you shld at least attempt to pay attention to them but she went awol and ffs if they town then this proves how freaking boring I am like I can hear her snoring. can some1 plz tell me I am not boring like I am starting to get a complex here. not on our wagon but when I think of town they immediately spring to mind so most likely town. this is also another read nacho and I agree on.

Sorry, but I've fallen behind on this game, I'm not good enough at this game to know what exactly to ask for, and it doesn't help that it seems like at the core the only basis for Antihero's townread on you is that you and he seem to have a rapport that I'm out of the loop on.

I guess the only question I have right now without reading the thread is "Why is sthar scum?" but you probably explained it somewhere and I just missed it. Anyway, I have to go for now. My main priority with deadline coming up is to figure out which Antihero read to sheep so I'll give him a kick in his lazy ass sometime today.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Technically, I don't think Anti even understands what I'm trying to say, so presenting it as "disagrees" is a little presumptuous.

lol scum condescension

This is a fascinating scum tell and, at the same time, seems impossible to categorize. You don't understand my thoughts on Nero, fine. But to call my attempts to explain them "talking AT you" and "boringly scummy" when you asked for the clarifications ...

VOTE: massive

[Heartless]

you didn't give me "clarification" you spat out a wall of quotes at me

when you recycle the same old bullshit, it doesn't suddenly become clearer

[Heartless]

the wagon you're on sucks

[Heartless]

mmmmmmm...

anen is still making awful posts.
greyfoxx is sitting it out until after deadline (awesome)

[Heartless]

hey tso

how does it feel to be scum?

[Heartless]

lol

you're so scum

[Heartless]

^^^^^

you should

like

vote massive with me

[Heartless]

lol

you're so scum

when have you ever caught me as scum?

right now

[Heartless]

what's this meta you're invoking?

faith+1? really?

[Heartless]

well, we can start with the fact that you've been calling nachomollie scum all game and now you're moseying over to an sthar vote with them because.......... strategic lurking?

sthar goes on strategic v/la's as scum?

[Heartless]

we can also continue with the fact that the 50 shades push was liquid shit to begin with

[Heartless]

Like, what did you actually expect? Me to hardpush a case against someone who's lurking? What?

Catching up later. While I'm away,
@TSO: can you link a game you were replaced in (if there are any), please?

town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=51535
replaced in, called both scum correctly straight away, was forced to compromise, got nk'd, town listened me on one but there was an inexperienced/VI in LyLo and he threw the game.
town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49438
replaced in, didn't call any scum correctly, got in a massive fight with desp, got lynched
scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37476
replaced in, made slot pretty town, got to d3, had planned to bus Nacho but town got there first, won in LyLo
scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29865
replaced in, backed scumpartner mara in a 1v1, mara lost, got lynched, was the de facto lynch d2. worst ever scumgame by a long, long shot. I'm somewhat competent as scum - more so than town, anyway.

temp vla

I do not like 5SOP's posting one bit.

Unvote
Vote: sthar8

this is a nice swath of posts

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

[Heartless]

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

Straight up worse than what I did. Good job. Put TTH on the phone.

I don't think you're going to like what I have to say any better because I don't understand your push on Nero Cain either.

Here, let me try to explain it back to you the way

I

understand it: NC is scummy because he started out not scumreading wgeurts. Then, later in the game when explaining his wgeurts read, he changed his story and said he was scumreading wgeurts this whole time. Therefore, Nero Cain is scum.

There's several issues with this. One is that, as Antihero and 50 Shades of Purple have already explained, the statement "NC wasn't scumreading wgeurts at first" is categorically false.

But even if I granted you that premise

there's a huge part of the case missing and that's the "Why?" Why would Nero Cain insist on this revisionist history of the game? Was he redoubling his efforts on wgeurts in an attempt to lynch him? Was he using it to justify a push on someone else? Was he doing it to distance himself from wgeurts? The only one that looks plausible is that last one, but it doesn't look like a wgeurts scumread is coming into the equation for

your

particular argument.

You can quote a lot of things and say something is contradictory until you're blue in the face. But if there's no bottom line answer to "why would scum do this?" then your case doesn't have legs to stand on and it looks like you're shoving an argument that's all fluff and no stuff. I can think of plenty of reasons why scum would do that.

If you're not going to talk to Anti about particulars, fine. At least tell me what exactly lies at the heart of your argument.

-TTH

[Heartless]

it shouldn't be this easy for me to dismantle your arguments - come on now.

I'm not going to sugar coat it: you need an attitude adjustment as much as Anti does. Your catch up is very bare-bones and I don't come away from it knowing much about where you stand this game. In short, it's terrible and not very pro-town. I'm just sorry that someone more articulate than Anti wasn't around to break the news to you.

Let's see if we can't shed any light on the situation, though.

Let's run down the list of questions for you:

1. As Antihero pointed out, why is it that you're scumreading 50 Shades of Purple yet perfectly willing to vote with them?
2. Did you change your read on 50 Shades of Purple?
3. Do you think 50 Shades are bussing?
4. Why do you think 50 Shades is scum? There's a lot of adjectives I could use to describe them and Nacho's case on MTD, but "lethargic" isn't one of them. Anything else?
5. sthar has a past of "lurking strategically" as scum? Where is the substantiation for this claim? Does it apply for this particular situation (i.e. Why is it strategic here)?
6. Do you have any reads outside of 50 Shades, sthar, or wgeurts?
7. Why do you think wgeurts is scum?

That should be enough for now to get you started.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I am scumreading star cos he has not even made a thump in this game. <---- it is confusing to me as to why you have not seen this until now. that was my point about him doing this in the faith game which is what you scumread me over.

Hello!

So, what's your baseline (your expectations) for this? Other than the inactivity from what I'm presuming is due to the announced V/LA, this seems pretty on par with what I saw from him in my last game with him (especially the exchange with GrayFoxx).

Is there something I'm missing?

-TTH

[Heartless]

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

Straight up worse than what I did. Good job. Put TTH on the phone.

I like this guy!

lol ok, you got your wish

enjoy your quality time with TTH

[Heartless]

Will not lynch in {Anen, Heartless, whygorts, monkey} because I don't want to lynch town.

Will not lynch in {nero, TSO, nachomollie} for various reasons.

I'd prefer to lynch out of {grayfox, dave} but that might not be entirely sane.

there's a lack of

massive and death stare in these lists.

also, i'd like to hear the "various reasons" for tso

[Heartless]

unvote

would vote 5sop, or policy lynch nero. w/e works.

vote: nero

it's not really a policy

I just hate his whole charade of asking why he's not a scumread - why the fuck does this matter?

Just for ignoring me, I would be OK with lynching you.

I would vote any of: TSO, massive, or GrayFoxx. I'm still not 100% on 50 Shades since I don't get their sthar push, but I'll just lean on Anti for that read for today.

-TTH

[Heartless]

oh you're right oh wise one
teach me how to play this game and how not to have your sister "rip me an asshole"

if you're successful on either of those tasks

let me know

because i haven't figured it out, either

in all seriousness, though

you should take a chill pill

for jingle's benefit

i'm not going to be on for another couple hours , so.... HOP TO IT

[Heartless]

Oh, you're right, I randomly gave myself abuse for replacing into my 7th game or so which I'm active in at the moment, thank you TSO! How can I repay myself?

I'm not saying anything to be mean, TSO. I guess I'm just frustrated that it seems like a majority of people have checked out completely. You look stressed and I'm sorry if I came off as bitchy, but I feel like I'm in over my head (again) and I feel like I have absolutely no information on your slot.

-TTH

[Heartless]

What should I do?

You should vote massive as that's the only lynch that has even a remote chance of happening.

-TTH

[Heartless]

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

[Heartless]

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

Let's get something straight right away. Several RL days have passed, and therefore it's not acceptable to just vote without saying why.

Tough rhetoric, dave. There's not much in the way of actions this game to back it up, though. You really don't have much room to give Anti grief about anything.

The dave and 50 Shades reads are mine. I plan on talking Antihero into voting you, by the way, because I think you're scum.
The tail end of yesterday for you was spent voting MonkeyMan, who I think is probably town. Ostensibly, your reason for voting him was "pressure," but there's a lack of follow-through on this promise. In subsequent posts, you don't work to advance the wagon or interact with MonkeyMan himself in any meaningful way. You seemed to be perfectly content letting your vote fester on a failed wagon that never exceeded two votes, but that never seemed to bother you. Reads on people outside of MonkeyMan are left mostly undeveloped and there's a distinct lack of transparency in your overall view of the game. I also wasn't a fan of the earlier Nero Cain push (Nero Cain is a townread).

-TTH

[Heartless]

Nice reply, wrong issue. The vote was on massive without a reason. I'm looking for that reason.

No, you're nitpicking. Anti's already talked about why he thinks massive is making a bad case.

Where were you yesterday?

-TTH

[Heartless]

you know when i said i would accept 50 shades votes?

i lied

i'll make fun of those too.

[Heartless]

I don't see the leap between massive's "bad case" and scum. How do we distinguish between town massive misunderstanding early Nero vs. scum massive misrepresenting early Nero?

I'm not really sure, that's a broad theory question that I don't have enough of a feel for the game to answer. I'm sure Antihero can answer that, though.

Your slot is saying plenty but explaining next to nothing.

Haha, excuse me? That's not true.

Same goes for everyone. If there is a case presented, I'll consider joining it. If there is no case presented or reason that you're joining another case, I'll be inclined to to think you're scum. I'm going to see no case as more scummy than a bad case.

Hold that thought for a moment.

-TTH

[Heartless]

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

VOTE: massive

i'm pretty pissed at all of you right now. Seriously, fuck all of you.

Why are you pissed at us?

Also, why are you voting massive? I recall you responded to Antihero's question about your read on massive by saying this:

massive is all cases that I understand but don't agree with, which is not strongly indicative.

How does a massive vote to start today follow?

[Heartless]

your slot is town cos of anti. but do you wanna like, yanno interact with us or something? cos your avoidance on your own while calling us scum would normally make me go apeshit.

maybe i can help you out here because there's too much tension here that doesn't need to be here

TTH doesn't really trust what she doesn't understand. that's just the way she is in general, btw. and she doesn't understand your sthar push. i'm trying to explain, but i don't think i'm doing a very good job.

iirc, she asked you about it before yesterday ended, but it was too close to the buzzer for you to answer.

i didn't really want to shut TTH down before she gets happy with a townread on you , buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, i think you're town so it's all just an exercise in absurdity anyway

[Heartless]

I don't see the leap between massive's "bad case" and scum. How do we distinguish between town massive misunderstanding early Nero vs. scum massive misrepresenting early Nero?

well, there's context for that, dave

is massive
1) looking at the game globally and seeing what other players are doing at the same time?
2) poking nero for answers and seeing if they're making sense (being sure to see if it

does

make sense from a town angle)?
3) really working with his townreads to resolve differences of opinion in the case?

no, no, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand no

those are all hallmarks of "townie who thinks he has something and is just wrong"

in the absence of that, i arrive at "scum who needs to push a mislynch"

[Heartless]

TINFOIL

Massive is scum and getting bussed by wgeurts and sthar

wgeurts: maybe
sthar: yes

[Heartless]

...lol, sorry. i was gonna let TTH dance with sthar for bit

but sthar is so scum.

[Heartless]

Can I dance with her?

easy there, mr. sugarpants

Did you miss the end of the day yesterday? The deadline wagon that we couldn't push through? He pretty much has to die now.

consequence of no one being on?

i mean, if that's true, that implicates: wgeurts

[Heartless]

Stuck my neck out and couldn't figure out how to get through to you. The mistake is probably spending too much energy trying to get you to understand, and not figuring out who else might be willing to work with me. If I hang, then it's lessons learned all around.

well, instead of looking at TTH's (whateverpostitwastoolazy) and thinking "hm, maybe this case

is

crap" you just want to keep on shoving.

also, you have no reads outside of nerocain?

[Heartless]

it is a meta read and I am thinking tso is probs town cos of he started seeing the same thing. I thought he SHOULD have seen it earlier but meh.

I think star's v/la is genuine in that his availability will be unreliable and unpredictable but has already been noted he HAS been around and HAS said in the past that active lurking is a scum strategy of his so I do NOT think that his v/la is a lie cos he is defos not like that I just think that town!star would be posting more when he had the opportunity and he isn't.

Hello mollie. I know I've been falling down on this game and keeping in touch with you, but it seems that sthar is a hot topic and I'd

really

like to talk about it.

One thing I'd like to do is completely strip meta out of the case. I can tell there's history and all between: you, nacho, Anti, and sthar. Anti told me some stuff about it, but I wasn't really paying attention. I don't think it's really that important though, because I think since any case should be able to stand on its own without meta (Anti told me that during Chosen). From what I'm reading in your ISO, I'm getting that you think sthar isn't posting enough or isn't enough of a presence in this game. I don't know how you're getting that from sthar's activity itself, though. I see things I like in his recent posting, especially the efforts to examine what went wrong yesterday that landed us in a situation where we couldn't get a lynch. Also, I'm wondering where you, Nero Cain, and Anti are getting this bus theory. If massive really is scum, I think that actually lessens the chances of sthar being scum pretty substantially. With where he left his read yesterday, sthar could have easily pursued alternative wagons to start Day 2, but he didn't.

Can I dance with her?

Sure!
Anything I just said to mollie in the preceding paragraph you can also respond to. I can see your reasoning for your massive push, but I'm lost on your sthar one. Is it carrying over from the whole "low-hanging fruit" issue with MonkeyMan and wgeurts from early on Day 1 or what?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Oh wow, my editing of that last post is dreadful. Apologies.

One thing I'd like to do is completely strip meta out of the case. I can tell there's history and all between: you, nacho, Anti, and sthar. Anti told me some stuff about it, but I wasn't really paying attention. I don't think it's that important though, because I think any case should be able to stand on its own without meta (Anti told me that during Chosen). From what I'm reading in your ISO, I'm getting that you think sthar isn't posting enough or isn't enough of a presence in this game. I don't know how you're getting that from sthar's activity itself, though. I see things I like in his recent posting, especially the efforts to examine what went wrong yesterday that landed us in a situation where we couldn't get a lynch. Also, I'm wondering where you, Nero Cain, and Anti are getting this bus theory. If massive really is scum, I think that actually lessens the chances of sthar being scum pretty substantially. With where he left his read yesterday, sthar could have easily pursued alternative wagons to start Day 2, but he didn't.

-TTH

[Heartless]

All I see are words and not really a legit response. So lets try again, Massive didn't die yesterday, how does that mean he "has" to die today.

If massive is town, we handed the scum a mislynch yesterday and THEY DIDN"T TAKE IT. I'm 100% sure of 2/5 of the wagon, and like 80% sure of another 2/5. So the explanation isn't that all the scum were already on the wagon. Which means there's a good chance that Massive is scum, I was the counterwagon, and the scum chose to no lynch instead of bussing.

It's not 100% but it's strong enough to warrant action.

Why do you think there are 4 scum in the game?

I think sthar is saying he's 100% on 2/5 of the wagon and 80% sure on another 2/5 of the wagon being

town

. I'm assuming his point is that the wagon yesterday was mostly town, thus affording scum an opportunity for an easy, low accountability Day 1 lynch. We ended up with no lynch, so that implies there are people with incentive to not vote massive and instead passively let a no lynch occur. This implies that massive is scum.

Clear as mud?

I see that you want someone to talk to, MonkeyMan. I'll take you up on that. What's your opinion on this recent argument between sthar and mollie?

-TTH

[Heartless]

that you are pushing so hard for massive is like number 2 of the reasons as to why I have been waiting for nacho. cos I am pretty sure that you are scum. massive is NOT giving me the townflails feeling but there are some things that he has said that gives me pause. it kind of looks like he gave a reach out to me when he said, "it makes me sad that current site meta says that politeness shld be treated as a scumtell" which is ambiguous but I dunno. mebbe I have a soft spot for massive when I really shouldn't have.

If you have misgivings about a massive wagon, I'd really like to hear them. I also kind of have a gut feeling that we're falling into this group think answer. Meanwhile, I'll revisit the "no lynch" issue:

I think sthar is saying he's 100% on 2/5 of the wagon and 80% sure on another 2/5 of the wagon being town. I'm assuming his point is that the wagon yesterday was mostly town, thus affording scum an opportunity for an easy, low accountability Day 1 lynch. We ended up with no lynch, so that implies there are people with incentive to not vote massive and instead passively let a no lynch occur. This implies that massive is scum.

Oh my god she speaks the same language as me.

I'm in a mood, so I'm not doing any of this tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

I thought about it and

I think your theory is flawed, sthar

.

I checked the timestamps again on all the posts yesterday. The third vote on the massive wagon was yours and it was placed about 2 hours before deadline. Before then, Nero Cain, massive, and wgeurts "wagons" all stood at 2 votes. Massive didn't become the frontrunner until it was too late to do anything about it anyway. Anti's "no one was on at the right time" theory suddenly makes sense, because everyone who

was

evidently on at the time piled onto the massive wagon and there was such a narrow window of time between your vote and the end of the day. Unless you somehow

knew

other players were on in that 2 hour window but declined to post, I don't know how the theory of "scum let a mislynch get away" stands up. At that point we devolve into hearsay and unhelpful speculation on non-game factors.

Now, where I think your argument has some merit is that

I do believe that scum contributed to the gridlock

leading up to the failure to get consensus. Following this train of thought leads me to MTD and davesaz, but I'll have to think on that more.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I don't remember the monkeyman pressure, do you mind linking me?

Post 823

-TTH

[Heartless]

Nacho, do you have any updated thoughts on MTD?

Reviewing his ISO, I don't care for him.

-TTH

[Heartless]

UNVOTE:

Moment of Clarity

So, I haven't had any sleep for the last 37 hours, but as I was laying in bed a second ago, something just occurred to me. I've been looking at all the wrong people.

massive isn't scum.

(And I don't think 50 Shades is either.)

And he's not scum for a few reasons. One is that there's a notable lack of a counterwagon or any real competing suspects/wagons today. The other is the stark contrast between what happened with the massive wagon yesterday and today. Yesterday, it never really got off the ground; the only people that really bought into it were Anti and Nero Cain. Now all sorts of people are crawling out of the woodwork to vote massive and he's already gotten to 5 votes

in only 6 pages and 4 realtime days

with no competing counterwagons

. There also hasn't been a change in the case on massive, other than perhaps the premature VT claim, but I don't think that's scummy anyway. It

has

to make you wonder.

There

is

an explanation for the day's occurrences.

MTD, wgeurts, and sthar8 are scum.

I already knew I had early concerns about wgeurts but I tabled them because he never seemed to be on Anti's radar for scum. He's scummy, though. Say what you want about

any

of his other behavior in this game, but this post (Post 1156) is scum. It's pretty much an objective summary of massive's play this game with sparse references. None of it even

looks

right; some of the sentences ("He then starts using the "you have no reason to vote me" argument which is also (IMO) horribly scummy.") have this dangling reason that doesn't lead to the stated conclusoin. Overall, it's incredibly shoehorned and awkward and notably lacks any kind of thread of logic leading up to a satisfying conclusion of "massive is scum." It looks exactly like he cobbled something together in response to the criticism of his earlier vote being opportunistic. (On a side-note, I have no idea why he chose to spoiler it since it's a very manageable length anyway.)

I had confidence in sthar leading up to this point, but after little thought, I really don't have any reason to be. The massive push today is based on a lot of faulty arguments. He also hasn't been engaging us (especially Antihero) on Day 1, which is weird since he's been townreading us this whole time and we never seem to have been in sync reads-wise. That seems odd, considering how Chosen went. sthar being scum would also explain how the massive wagon took off as quickly as it did (as I already explained in the opening paragraph).

That's two scum on the wagon. I don't think 50 Shades or Nero are scum, so there's probably another off the wagon.

My bet's on MTD. There's ostensible criticism of the massive wagon, but nothing really substantial is really delineated in the thread in terms of that townread, which is odd considering that the size of the wagon. There's also a noticeable lack of a vote or an attempt to start a competing wagon so I'm guessing he's more than happy to just let this massive wagon roll along. This dichotomy he recently presented (Anen or wgeurts) is completely nonsensical and Anen is likely town anyway. Looking back at Day 1 activity, there's really nothing that inspires confidence.

There's only a couple flaws with this theory. One is that it could fall apart if there are only 2 mafia or a serial killer. I'm guessing that the presence of only one kill on Night 1 is a likely indicator that there's only one scum faction, though. And if Jingle really did randomize the setup, the likelihood of 2 T's or 4 T's being generated is much higher than 6 T's. (For there to be 6 T's, Jingle would have to get 6/7 numbers between 1-100 that fall between 1 and 50. Someone who has the time and/or inclination to do so can run a statistical significance test.) The other flaw is that it doesn't really give a satisfying explanation for why TSO was killed on Night 1. I'll see what Antihero thinks about all this. Right now, though, I have to get some sleep because I feel like I'm about to pass out at my computer.

VOTE: sthar8

-TTH

[Heartless]

...the hell happened here...

[Heartless]

anen making laughably bad posts

i see things haven't changed too much

[Heartless]

@50Shades-Mollie Stop that bullshyt! Sthar is most probably town, I've already explained why. We're not lynching him Today. Aaand, while you're saying that Sthar is scum, sheeping Nero and Heartless with that vote without posting anything about Massive!? Welcome to my scumpool! Some other reasons are posted above too.

^specifically, this

[Heartless]

i see wall posts from mollie and tth

progress

[Heartless]

I think nero is kind of scummy for flirting with me; nero doesn't outright flirt with me ever but nacho won't let me near nero and yes, sometimes nacho gets his way even.

watwatwatjwatjwatwajtlkawjtklj;awkjdfl;jadsf

[Heartless]

Mollie can analyze my meat anyday.....

yeah, i don't think this counts as flirting

this is more like...............

weird and awkward

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

Moment of Clarity

So, I haven't had any sleep for the last 37 hours, but as I was laying in bed a second ago, something just occurred to me. I've been looking at all the wrong people.

massive isn't scum.

(And I don't think 50 Shades is either.)

And he's not scum for a few reasons. One is that there's a notable lack of a counterwagon or any real competing suspects/wagons today. The other is the stark contrast between what happened with the massive wagon yesterday and today. Yesterday, it never really got off the ground; the only people that really bought into it were Anti and Nero Cain. Now all sorts of people are crawling out of the woodwork to vote massive and he's already gotten to 5 votes

in only 6 pages and 4 realtime days

with no competing counterwagons

. There also hasn't been a change in the case on massive, other than perhaps the premature VT claim, but I don't think that's scummy anyway. It

has

to make you wonder.

There

is

an explanation for the day's occurrences.

MTD, wgeurts, and sthar8 are scum.

I already knew I had early concerns about wgeurts but I tabled them because he never seemed to be on Anti's radar for scum. He's scummy, though. Say what you want about

any

of his other behavior in this game, but this post (Post 1156) is scum. It's pretty much an objective summary of massive's play this game with sparse references. None of it even

looks

right; some of the sentences ("He then starts using the "you have no reason to vote me" argument which is also (IMO) horribly scummy.") have this dangling reason that doesn't lead to the stated conclusoin. Overall, it's incredibly shoehorned and awkward and notably lacks any kind of thread of logic leading up to a satisfying conclusion of "massive is scum." It looks exactly like he cobbled something together in response to the criticism of his earlier vote being opportunistic. (On a side-note, I have no idea why he chose to spoiler it since it's a very manageable length anyway.)

I had confidence in sthar leading up to this point, but after little thought, I really don't have any reason to be. The massive push today is based on a lot of faulty arguments. He also hasn't been engaging us (especially Antihero) on Day 1, which is weird since he's been townreading us this whole time and we never seem to have been in sync reads-wise. That seems odd, considering how Chosen went. sthar being scum would also explain how the massive wagon took off as quickly as it did (as I already explained in the opening paragraph).

That's two scum on the wagon. I don't think 50 Shades or Nero are scum, so there's probably another off the wagon.

My bet's on MTD. There's ostensible criticism of the massive wagon, but nothing really substantial is really delineated in the thread in terms of that townread, which is odd considering that the size of the wagon. There's also a noticeable lack of a vote or an attempt to start a competing wagon so I'm guessing he's more than happy to just let this massive wagon roll along. This dichotomy he recently presented (Anen or wgeurts) is completely nonsensical and Anen is likely town anyway. Looking back at Day 1 activity, there's really nothing that inspires confidence.

There's only a couple flaws with this theory. One is that it could fall apart if there are only 2 mafia or a serial killer. I'm guessing that the presence of only one kill on Night 1 is a likely indicator that there's only one scum faction, though. And if Jingle really did randomize the setup, the likelihood of 2 T's or 4 T's being generated is much higher than 6 T's. (For there to be 6 T's, Jingle would have to get 6/7 numbers between 1-100 that fall between 1 and 50. Someone who has the time and/or inclination to do so can run a statistical significance test.) The other flaw is that it doesn't really give a satisfying explanation for why TSO was killed on Night 1. I'll see what Antihero thinks about all this. Right now, though, I have to get some sleep because I feel like I'm about to pass out at my computer.

VOTE: sthar8

-TTH

wooooah.....

ohkay

that ... uh ...

that's actually
a pretty awesome post

[Heartless]

I said I wanted to DANCE with you, not talk with you!

hey nero

don't be a dick

[Heartless]

That post from me was saying if DS flipped scum and monkey is scum DS voting Monkey would make Monkey look less scummy, that's what I think that meant.

hey

tth just called your case a bowl full of liquid shit

you have nothing to say about that?

[Heartless]

(4) If Sthar were scum he would have got rid of me at Night 1, before I start discovering the similarities between his gameplay here and his gameplay in the finished game.

anen

you weren't dying night 1 regardless of sthar's alignment

[Heartless]

Frankly, what would a scum!Sthar think at Night1? "Shyt, Aneninen might notice that I'm doing the same here. So, I let him alive because that idiot will post that I'm town because he hasn't been Nightkilled. Wow, such a perfect plan, mwahahahahaha!" How would this make any sense?

...

there's probably a universe where these sentences make sense

this one is not it

[Heartless]

Disagree. I think he's wrong about Sthar but scumreading the person that you think is attacking your teamate isn't some off the wall cray crayness. And scum often sheep so like that doesn't seem all that crazy either. Can you explain why you think its a bad post?

i don't think it's cray cray. i just think it's bad bad. the sthar read.

And if you aren't scumreading him then why are you being condescending and putting him down?

because the lines of thought he uses aren't well thought out or flow particularly well and it's annoying because i tend to think he's scum for it (and this is the

SAME kind of shit

he pulled last game where he went after me for it).

[Heartless]

I can't tell if Heartless and 50Shades moving off massive is the result of a legitimate read on sthar, or scum trying to keep us so confused we can't lynch anyone.

oh wow, that's fucking rich coming from you

someone who's been voting non-consensus vanity wagons all game

[Heartless]

VOTE: wgeurts

I am also more than happy with this wagon for reasons previously explained. I also know a few of my townreads (Nero Cain, 50 Shades, and Anenien) who would also vote this wagon so it seems to be our best hope of reaching a consensus right now.

There are a few things I'd like to say to Anenien and dave that I won't right now because I'm too tired. So I'll push it to tomorrow.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Anti. I'm going to murder you.

My previous theory (obviously) needs a reworking because I went terribly wrong somewhere I'm just not sure where. I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

[Heartless]

Anti. I'm going to murder you.

My previous theory (obviously) needs a reworking because I went terribly wrong somewhere I'm just not sure where. I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

I expect an apology.

hey sthar

yeah, screw you

tth was right about mollie this whole time and i pooh-poohed it. it's my fault, not hers.

even if it was, she doesn't owe you shit. it's part of the game.

[Heartless]

Anti. I'm going to murder you.

My previous theory (obviously) needs a reworking because I went terribly wrong somewhere I'm just not sure where. I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

I expect an apology.

I'm sorry I didn't engage you more than I did yesterday; it turns out my hare-brained theory was just that and my methods were flawed. Knowing that mollie jumped onto the massive wagon after pressure might tell us something though, I'm just not sure what yet. My first inclination is that it means massive is town.

Preview edit: Anti, that was pretty uncalled for.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Knowing that mollie jumped onto the massive wagon after pressure might tell us something though, I'm just not sure what yet. My first inclination is that it means massive is town.

Why town? Mollie was clearly calling Massive scum but was hesitant to vote. Why do you think that isn't not wanting to vote a scumbud?

I'm not sure, I'd have to revisit her posting. I recall her saying something about how massive's case "fascinated" her or something to that effect. I'd also have to go back and see what massive had to say about 50 Shades, nothing comes to mind right now.

-TTH

[Heartless]

We assumed on Day2 that TSO had been killed by the Mafia. As far as I know, noone gave a possible explanation why he had been killed.

There hasn't been and I feel like that's a big missing puzzle piece. He was scumreading Nero Cain at the end of the day, but he had scumreads on both 50 Shades and sthar that he sort of went back on right before the day ended. It doesn't make sense as a mafia kill, there were a lot more vocal detractors of 50 Shades, most notably sthar and Nero Cain.

Then there's the number of kills. There's a 2/3 chance a Serial Killer is in play.

I just deleted the rest of the paragraph I typed out because I just realized sthar was right and this is a not a very pro-town endeavor. The only thing is that there's really no way of evaluating the reliability of MonkeyMan's action

without

doing so.

Ignoring the claimed roleblock seems foolish, though.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Did MonkeyMan claim a N1 target? If not, I'd recommend waiting for a while.

He did. It was wgeurts.

-TTH

[Heartless]

what am i doing?

what's my name?
who am i?

[Heartless]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

/hasn't said a word to us since the beginning of the game

el-oh-el

VOTE: deathstare

[Heartless]

I finally have time to look over this game.

-TTH

[Heartless]

The setup speculation makes my head hurt.
At this point, I'm thinking that continuing this setup math speculation intelligently would require outing more PRs, which I think is unnecessary right now. I'd rather not show our hand yet.

If we don't finish the scumteam here, SK prob dies tonight, which is good.

I will say that I follow this logic.

-TTH

[Heartless]

And of course, if we lynch scum Today, the things will be waaaaaaaaaay easier. ^_^

Mathematically, Death Stare is far and away more likely to be mafia than not. A quick look at davesaz's last post will tell you why.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Too many silent people.

The

only

way there can be missing kills, without MonkeyMan's roleblock having hit scum, is additional town PRs. And if there is even one more, there

must

be

at least

three to give us a total of at least 5. The only setups with a godfather are 0-2 T's (5+ power roles) and 5-7 T's. (0-2 power roles)

Isn't there still the possibility that the RB claim was false?
Also you are ignoring the possibility of crosskills.
Also don't forget the potential SK-bulletproof.

I bolded things and underlined for a reason. It is anti-town to fully explain the reason.

...it really isn't rocket science, mtd. what's the hang-up here?

[Heartless]

we're vt

anyone else?

[Heartless]

i think nero and sthar are the only ones left

[Heartless]

Monkey, Anen, Heartless TO ME!

if the situation is what i'm thinking, there's not much left to do.

[Heartless]

What does that mean?

i'm thinking that one of [you, sthar] is a 1-shot vig. this makes sense given that both of you were scumreading mollie the night she died.

i'm also thinking that dave's 1-shot rb is the explanation for why there's a missing n2 kill.

otherwise that leaves an SK and a shitload of missing kills (not as likely as ^above)

[Heartless]

oh wait a sec, there's 7 letters

[Heartless]

ok, 5 t's and up or 2 t's and under.

the only way it could be 2 t's is if both you and sthar are docs or cop/1-shot cop.

otherwise, even WITH a bp sk, there's too many missing kills for one of them not to have been caused by monkeyman or dave's action.

[Heartless]

wrinkles:
>dave's fakeclaiming
>overlapping kills

we need to finish the massclaim

[Heartless]

naw, i don't think there are three town prs.

well you and sthar can claim so we can figure it out

or i can just sit here and play with my dick for a bit while ranting about a million possible things

[Heartless]

<---not a pr. Hence why I sorta believe Daves claim but then it could be a TTTTTBV setup which means Dave is lying.

'mkay

well
up to sthar

[Heartless]

VOTE: massive

will also do brian

[Heartless]

Talk to me or I'm voting you.

@Heartless. Care to explain your vote and your case against Brian if you have one?

I asked Anti about that last night and he told me Process of Elimination. At first blush, I

might

agree since I've been townreading Nero Cain and Anenien for a while. Combine that with the recently acquired sthar townread and we're left with only Brian Skies and massive. I can't help but feel like there's something we're missing, though. I also don't know if my sthar read is entirely rational or if it's a product of my guilty feelings post-mollie-flip.

I'm going to be spending a couple hours later this morning getting a better working theory because I feel like Anti thinks this is in the bag (and that's why he's slacked off ). Unfortunately, I don't share this optimism. While there are 2 confirmed town, I'm confused by the numerous missing kills which still seem to not have any apparent explanation. A good theory needs to have those accounted for.

-TTH

Wrong account. Sorry about that.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I'm going off the assumption that there's a Serial Killer and one remaining Mafia because the only way that falls apart is if there's a Vigilante (one-shot or otherwise) that didn't claim.
(There's also the chance that davesaz is fakeclaiming and nightkilled 50 Shades on Night 2 to give the appearance of a second kill. I don't even know if that's allowed or not. It's an elegant explanation for why there's only been one night kill every night but it's

extremely

far fetched so I'll leave that theory alone. If true, that would be a very interesting strategy, though.)

I'm not sure what's involved with hunting Serial Killers since associations are no good, I guess that's something for Anti. I'm convinced that the remaining mafia can be found from 50 Shade's activity, I'm just not really sure where to look but I'll give it a shot.

In post 311 the position on Anenien can be summarized as "I can see how he's scummy but he's not actually scum." There's a couple plausible explanations for this: 1) she's saying this because Anenien, as town, is expecting her to say this given the special knowledge she has about him from the recently finished game or 2) she's trying to defend her scumbuddy without resorting to a full, head-on defense. I can't reasonably eliminate one right now, but keeping Nacho's later response to Antihero's case on Anen in mind, I'm having some second thoughts about my Anenien read.

-TTH

[Heartless]

massive, that is correct, my error. That would have been a really cool trick. :p

As for the missing kills there are only a few possibilities: the SK and mafia killed the same person, the mafia shot at a bulletproof SK, and/or one of them intentionally no-killed. Since it seems like there's an infinite combination of possibilities for what happened, I'll have to take this aspect last.

At this point, I kind of want to re-strategize and stop thinking about individual 50 Shades posts and start thinking about pirate mollie and Nachomamma's overall strategy. Here's the overall gist of what they were doing. Their main thrusts, MTD and Death Stare, both turned out to be town. I'm inclined to think that this means they treated their partner in the opposite manner: by defending and/or townreading them.

I'm reading post 881 and repeatedly turning it over in my head. mollie and Antihero's dynamic in this game was dysfunctional at best. It feels like the notable times their reads seemed to converge were at incorrect targets: MTD and davesaz come to mind. It poisons the GreyFoxx (now Brian) push about halfway through Day 1, and it makes me wonder if the

only

scumread of Anti's they went out of their way to actively sabotage was actually good.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I haven't gotten to Day 2 with the massive wagon and I haven't gotten to the SK yet.

There aren't enough hours in the day.

-TTH

[Heartless]

i
actually


think brian would be a really awesome lynch

[Heartless]

greyfoxx was scummy to begin with

the sthar read is so

bleh

and he makes sure to stay in TTH's shadow on that one

[Heartless]

hey sthar, we're you the one blackmailing us a while ago when you needed a playmate?

WELL HEY THE FREAK SHOW'S HERE

what's going on now?

[Heartless]

Resident townsperson checkin in. Im not reading 67 pages, gimme a good recap and present your cases.

The basic information: there's 1 more Mafia and 1 Serial Killer, MonkeyMan claimed Roleblocker, dave claimed 1-shot Roleblocker. As per the role distribution specified in the C9++ Wiki page, they are being treated as confirmed town. Current cases are malformed at best.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Antihero's profile for Serial Killer was someone who posted enough to avoid suspicion but didn't stick their neck out to far to avoid drawing the nightkill. On the surface, the GreyFoxx/Brian Skies/Majiffy slot seems to fit that profile to a "T" but I'm bothered by the fact that the day 2 activity doesn't look like it leads up to a 50 Shades kill.

I'd really like someone to give me their perspective on Anenien because everyone's saying they're townreading him, but when I go back through 50 Shade's posts, there was a clear interest in protecting him and I'm drawing the conclusion that it's because he's scum with them. Does anyone have a plausible alternative theory?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Heartless – high. They're saying that 50Shades were townreading and defending me. As for the latter one, see above. As for their so-colled townread: they were constantly townreading Heartless on Day1. All the time! Even their "soft-defense" case against me missed elements which they could have been found easily. I think they're drawing the attention away from themselves.

lol

you have fun with tth now

[Heartless]

So there's two killers in { Nero, Heartless, Aneninen, sthar8 } ... any of them fit that inactivity idea? Heartless maybe? They haven't exactly been active or helpful when they are.

Hm, I see you haven't read any of my posts. What am I, chopped liver?

Anyway, while I have you here massive, I'd like to know what game you're referring to that proves I can't read you.

-TTH

[Heartless]

i posted

you can't strangle me now, tth
ha