Open 624 Fire and Ice - Fire Mafia Wins

[Shinobi]

snowman = snow = water = weakness to fire
VOTE: Viva La

Stretchiest post in the thread.
VOTE: beeboy

[Shinobi]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

snowman=snow=ice=ice mafia
confirmed scum.

This post is bad too tbh, for the exact same reasons.
Question to both of you: do you think these things are actually relevant? Who else is scum?

[Shinobi]

All of these votes are bad, even by rvs standards.

[Shinobi]

Since not all of you are scum, change of plans:
VOTE: snarky

For not even voting.

Pedit: Do you think that making senseless rvs votes is constructive?

[Shinobi]

Compared to what, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Sure, you read my profile.
How does that lead you to the conclusion that I don't call people out early, exactly?

[Shinobi]

...And?

[Shinobi]

You're not really describing anything that actually relates to scum motivation either.
You're just pointing to a thing and saying "this is different!" without any sense of context. It seems rather silly.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, not really.
You're free to keep flapping your arms around but it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Pedit: Hi ika.

[Shinobi]

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

Because?

I dislike how you pushed it mostly.
What was the point of quoting her profile?

I'm a man.

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

Why?

[Shinobi]

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

Because?

I dislike how you pushed it mostly.
What was the point of quoting her profile?

I'm a man.

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

Why?

I don't want you in lylo by your first impression

-pc

Reads like a garbage excuse to me.

[Shinobi]

SS.
Shinobi asked me what my other scum reads when half the game hadn't posted and what had been said was all RVS.
How ELSE do I interpret it?

So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have.

Why couldn't I be right and he could have slipped up and made a poor play while trying too hard to look town?
Everyone's played well as scum before. Why can't any scummy thing by Shinobi be written off as "oh obviously if he wanted to act towny he could have"?
Why is it not likely that Shinobi wanted to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it was an appropriate reaction to the game state?
If you're saying that that was a reaction test, what reactions was Shinobi looking for? Why hasn't he followed up on it?

Like a person asking you for scumreads?
What have I not followed up on?

[Shinobi]

All of these votes are bad, even by rvs standards.

In the off chance you aren't trying to get a reaction out of people what do you think an ideal RVS is?

A short one where people push to get out of it ASAP.

This is going to be a fun setup trying to find scum who are actively trying to find scum (literally just town intentions).

Yeah. I only joined this game 'cuz texcat.

[Shinobi]

A short one where people push to get out of it ASAP.

The only way I can see that happen is by people being pressured for playing incredibly poorly creating early discussion which is exactly what we did. Using that logic wouldn't this have been a good RVS stage.

Yeah, after the fact.

[Shinobi]

...And?

RVSing is normal.
You participate in RVS normally and don't have an established history of attacking it.

You called people out on the first page for doing RVS votes and asked them who their legitimate scumreads are, like they should have them. That's absolute nonsense.

Good point.

You're not really describing anything that actually relates to scum motivation either.
You're just pointing to a thing and saying "this is different!" without any sense of context. It seems rather silly.

Good point too.

Awkward and bizarre behaviour is scum indicative because you're uncomfortable playing scum and make weird plays trying too hard to look like you're scumhunting in pursuit of trying to look towny.
I have context; I've read a bunch of your games' RVSes. This is not normal at all.

Ok, I guess.

Shinobi gives me the feeling that he's trying to avoid being suspected. Which he's not doing a very good job at.

VOTE: Shinobi

Considering that you jumped on my wagon simply because somebody else said "they read my games and thinks that this isn't normal" I'd say you are easily the scummiest person on my wagon.

VOTE: masquerade

[Shinobi]

Dear everyone voting VLG/me over masquerade - please switch.
If you don't want to switch, please explain why.

[Shinobi]

Nah fk it protest vote.
VOTE: Shinobi
This is still scum.

Why, even?

[Shinobi]

Forget it - I'll just do my own thing and pursue you later if you continue to post ignorant drivel. Nothing I'm interested in dealing with right now.

[Shinobi]

Signature bets are banned, correct?
Otherwise I'd be so on.

Alright, change of plans - what exactly has made you so totally confident that I'm scum?

[Shinobi]

You colossally slipped up on page 1 and the rest of your play has been an incredibly forced attempt to look like a good boy scumhunter.

Where do you think you get off asking people what their 'other townreads' are and criticizing RVS votes on the first page?

Riddle me this batman.

Someone trying to push the game forward.
To the bolded: it actually comes off as if you're sort of offended here? Is that what's happening here or am I misinterpreting your tone?

[Shinobi]

Aristo - while you're here, can you give me your opinion on masquerade?

[Shinobi]

Much helpful.
So wow.

Waiting on The Shadow, Ika, Lilac, BrightEyedFish (prob missing someone) to post something.

I could tunnel in on posts that mean little to nothing to get a reaction but that would make it to easy for late arriving scum to hop on a wagon and blend in without having to make real opinions for themselves.

It sounds like masquerade's giant post follows the sort of thing you're talking about in yet you haven't commented on it. Why?

[Shinobi]

I'll catch up in a bit.

[Shinobi]

testing a theory
VOTE: viva

What theory, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Are you intending to get to that or what's the point, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Are you intending to get to that or what's the point, exactly?

Wouldn't that ruin the experiment?

-.-

Shinobi, you didn't vote me despite the fact that I was pushing on you.

Why?

I don't think you're scum.

[Shinobi]

So Shinobi I was just going through your iso to remind myself where you stand on Viva and I couldn't find it. I couldn't find any kind of stance actually, except thinking I'm scum. Do you have reads on other players?

One or two - I'm still working on them and will post them as I go.

[Shinobi]

Supreme Overlord is still bugging the shit out of me and the Ika vote is frankly terrible.
But Ranger is being useless and anti-town as hell by refusing to explain her reads.
I'd like to switch but I also think we should seriously threaten to lynch Ranger if she continues to refuse to elaborate so that she gets shit done.

You. I like you.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: cobalting
I can back the "explain your reads" sentiment.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: cobalting
I can back the "explain your reads" sentiment.

This is a bad vote.

What's that supposed to mean?

[Shinobi]

Sorry, made an error last list.
{beeboy, droog, Masquerade, Aristophanes}
{Snarky Snowman, TheShadow}
{ika, Silverwolf}
{Something_Smart, Supreme Overlord}
{Viva la Gloria, Shinobi}
This is where I'm

actually

at.

Is there actually something besides "people that want to kill me because I'm not explaining my reads are mafia" behind your scumreads or is that all you have?

[Shinobi]

VOTE: cobalting
I can back the "explain your reads" sentiment.

This is a bad vote.

What's that supposed to mean?

Several people have indicated that Ranger does exactly this all the time. Even if you do want her reads explained, it doesn't follow that you think she's scum. This is opportunism.

I don't see how this precludes them from being scum, exactly.
I also think that your label of "opportunism" is misplaced.

[Shinobi]

Is there actually something besides "people that want to kill me because I'm not explaining my reads are mafia" behind your scumreads

Yes. As shown by: Masquerade being my top-tier town in spite of him pushing me as scum, and me having had you all as scum

before

there was any sentiment about me being scum. If you want to play the OMGUS game, you'll lose since it was very clear: I had a scumread on you in my first post, and you didn't scumread me until after I had listed for a while.

Cobalting: Can you explain why I was placed above 4 people when I hadn't posted much of anything yet? Is it just that you have strong scumreads on those 4 or do you often put your nulls in the middle like that?

Both?

Cool, that means you can explain it and we can actually talk about stuff.

[Shinobi]

Just because nothing precludes someone from being scum, it doesn't make them scum.
You voted for a reason, but on closer examination that reason is crap. It was basically an excuse to join the leading wagon without strongly committing.

I'm pretty committed to this wagon - I don't know why you think I'm not.
If you want to press me on the fact that I think the guy belittling my efforts for reasons he can't be bothered to explain is scum then go ahead.

[Shinobi]

So it's OMGUS?

If that's how you want to classify it, sure.

[Shinobi]

I'm pretty committed to this wagon - I don't know why you think I'm not.

Yeah, you tell him you are tunneling. #ROASTED

What exactly are you getting at?

[Shinobi]

What exactly are you getting at?

That I think you need to reconsider your vote.

The only other person I'm considering at this point is Silver.
I guess Masq is also a possibility but it isn't a strong one.

[Shinobi]

Nevermind, I just mixed up Masq and S_S.
I need to reread some stuff lol.

[Shinobi]

I'm pretty committed to this wagon - I don't know why you think I'm not.

Yeah, you tell him you are tunneling. #ROASTED

I don't get it

Shinobi if you're so committed why don't you make a case on Cobalting?

What does this have to do with anything, exactly?

[Shinobi]

You say you're committed, but your actions don't reflect that. You haven't pushed the wagon at all, nor given any compelling reasons. Therefore, until you actually do what you say you are doing, I will continue to call you opportunistic.

This just in: voting is noncommittal.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Shinobi]

This just in: voting is noncommittal.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm pretty committed to this wagon - I don't know why you think I'm not.

...

*woosh*

[Shinobi]

what does that mean...

That was the sound of that joke going over your head.

[Shinobi]

Silver.......

Why am
I not getting warm fuzzies from your post?

What are your reads? Does the fact that Shinobi isn't engaging either of us bother you at all?

I didn't know scum!silver was so spineless.

[Shinobi]

what does that mean...

That was the sound of that joke going over your head.

your point?
are you committed or not?

Yes?

[Shinobi]

My reasons are plenty real, tyvm.

[Shinobi]

Silver.......

Why am
I not getting warm fuzzies from your post?

What are your reads? Does the fact that Shinobi isn't engaging either of us bother you at all?

I didn't know scum!silver was so spineless.

I didn't realize scum!Shinobi was so obvious. I don't think you can articulate your read on Cobalting at all and are not reacting to the pressure from it in a way I've seen town Shinobi react to pressure before. Plus your reaction to me is meh. I don't feel you really want to figure me out at all.

VOTE: Shinobi

I'll explain it more when I get to a computer.
I thought that I had given my reasons before - apparently I haven't or wasn't clear enough.

[Shinobi]

Just because nothing precludes someone from being scum, it doesn't make them scum.
You voted for a reason, but on closer examination that reason is crap. It was basically an excuse to join the leading wagon without strongly committing.

I'm pretty committed to this wagon - I don't know why you think I'm not.
If you want to press me on the fact that I think the guy belittling my efforts for reasons he can't be bothered to explain is scum then go ahead.

SS why didn't you acknowledge this the first time, exactly?
Because I double checked and I thought I explained myself pretty well here.

[Shinobi]

Prod acknowledged, haven't had as much time for this as I'd hoped.

VOTE: Shinobi

Vote belongs here for now.

Games like this make me wonder why I even bother signing up for anything anymore.

[Shinobi]

However - and I don't want to sound too lazy here - but I don't really feel like going through your ISO, played 'spot the difference' with your lists, then going back to the game pages to try to figure out what happened in between that caused your opinion to change.

Dude, the game's thirteen pages long.

Thirteen

.
You'd have a more compelling argument if it was thirty.

And I've been listing since page three; you could have started back then. Or even now. My list keeps changing now.

If you don't want to explain everything, maybe now that I've taken a stab at why you listed droog as town, you could explain your reasoning for that, at least?

I could explain a controversial read, but reads everyone agrees with, I see no reason to. droog fits that category: those who aren't townreading him are null-reading him.

Oh, and:
VOTE: Shinobi.

Except you won't explain it because there's nothing behind your read to begin with.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Shinobi]

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

Because?

I dislike how you pushed it mostly.
What was the point of quoting her profile?

I'm a man.

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

Why?

I don't want you in lylo by your first impression

-pc

However - and I don't want to sound too lazy here - but I don't really feel like going through your ISO, played 'spot the difference' with your lists, then going back to the game pages to try to figure out what happened in between that caused your opinion to change.

Dude, the game's thirteen pages long.

Thirteen

.
You'd have a more compelling argument if it was thirty.

And I've been listing since page three; you could have started back then. Or even now. My list keeps changing now.

If you don't want to explain everything, maybe now that I've taken a stab at why you listed droog as town, you could explain your reasoning for that, at least?

I could explain a controversial read, but reads everyone agrees with, I see no reason to. droog fits that category: those who aren't townreading him are null-reading him.

Oh, and:
VOTE: Shinobi.

Someone tell me that this is a valid evolution of a read.
He explains nothing, comments on nothing I've said in yet still comes to the conclusion that I'm scum, because

???

And that's on top of his earlier pl comment, which was completely unwarranted.

[Shinobi]

Spoiler: lol nope

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

Because?

I dislike how you pushed it mostly.
What was the point of quoting her profile?

I'm a man.

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

Why?

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi}
{Viva la Gloria}

Because?

I dislike how you pushed it mostly.
What was the point of quoting her profile?

I'm a man.

I'd pl shinobi if I had to

-pc

Why?

I don't want you in lylo by your first impression

-pc

Reads like a garbage excuse to me.

VOTE: cobalting
I can back the "explain your reads" sentiment.

These are all the times you mentioned Cobalting before the vote. If this is all, then it's a very weak and opportunistic vote. Your explanation after the fact is a variant of OMGUS: "they're scumreading me and they won't say why" which is a scum mindset.
I'm fine with this.
VOTE: Shinobi

No it isn't.

[Shinobi]

Jesus this town is stupid.

[Shinobi]

Town can be wrong, too. If somebody isn't explaining a scumread on you, especially when it's their meta to do so, they may simply be wrong. But you, who knows they're right, are upset by this, and try to discredit them.
Also, nice AtE.

You're bad.

[Shinobi]

I'm VT.
I don't really give a fuck about being lynched because this town is aids and isn't trying to win.

Good luck.

[Shinobi]

Not "you're wrong."
Just "you're bad."
Lol.

It's the same thing, you know.

I really hope you're scum because I feel bad for you if you're not.

Pedit - Congrats on misrepping my meta, silver.

[Shinobi]

If I'm somehow not dead by the time I'm done doing stuff at the end of today I'll take another look at SO.
I've mostly written him off as one of the few people who wouldn't vote me for something dumb but that's the second time his name has been dropped and it behooves me to see what's up.

[Shinobi]

Aero you're aware somebody asked me what I was doing, right?

[Shinobi]

I need to reread droog as well - I don't like that Aero post.

[Shinobi]

I need to reread droog as well - I don't like that Aero post.

Really?
I liked it...

Also, Aero, I am awkward a lot.
Just sayin'

Why?

[Shinobi]

Also I'm sorta wavering on Silver being scum.
Her whole spiel on why she distrusts me makes sense from her pov the more she talks about it, even if it's incorrect.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: the_shadow
I can do a shadow lynch.

[Shinobi]

I need to reread droog as well - I don't like that Aero post.

Really?
I liked it...

Also, Aero, I am awkward a lot.
Just sayin'

Why?

He covered some of the main points and came out with reads from them. He didn't vote despite a scumlean because he isn't caught up. As catchup posts go, it was good for content analysis without being bulky, off topic, or agenda pushing.
What's not to like?

Or do you mean why am I awkward sometimes?
Because I don't have a good answer for that.

Because the content is relatively bad - a lot of it is vapid commenting on nothing while smearing things that have obvious solutions to them.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi's probably not scum though?
And even if he is he's an awful day one lynch.
Vote someone who is trying to stay under the radar, like Shadow.

Stop changing your story. First he's scum and deserves to be lynched, then he's scum who SHOULDN'T be lynched (?), now he's probably not scum. And you haven't explained any of it.

I think it's better to lynch scum, idk about you man...

Dumb statements are dumb.

Actually, I think the dumb statement is Viva trying to lynch based on activity rather than scumminess. The Shadow lynch is basically a PL.

VOTE: the_shadow
I can do a shadow lynch.

Oh look! More opportunism!
We are absolutely lynching Shinobi today. This is unacceptable.

So I'm voting a wagon with less votes on it than Cobalting? How opportunistic of me.

[Shinobi]

I'm just going to assume that SS is scum until the end of the game because there's no feasible way another human being is this dense.

[Shinobi]

I mean, I can also point out the fact that he has completely ignored that shadow has jumped on my wagon, which is getting a ridiculous amount of heat, for no reason whatsoever in order to call my vote on him opportunistic.

It's selective and scummy in and of itself, but that's besides the point.

[Shinobi]

So your vote is OMGUS because you're annoyed that he's right?

Yes, obviously.

[Shinobi]

Btw, if any of those reads would be wrong: Something_Smart is the towniest of the four right now, but he's still my current guess for fourth scum.
Viva's still looking bad, Shinobi gets worse each post, and Supreme Overlord isn't any better. They're all scumhunting, but they look like scum scumhunting, not town scumhunting.

Again - why?

[Shinobi]

Please tell me why shinobi is scum

Several opportunistic votes without real reasons. Couldn't give reasons, even when pressed. Became upset after being wagoned, but in a flail-y "that wasn't supposed to happen" way and not a towny "yikes I'm being mislynched" way (it's hard to explain, but read the last few pages and you'll see it). Using angry and scathing AtE as a last-ditch effort (to scare people off his wagon maybe?) and personal insults (never acceptable btw).

Pretty sure I've given reasons for just about everything I've done this game, the sole exception possibly being my vote on shadow.

Even then I think it's relatively obvious that I'm voting him for jumping on my wagon for no reason.

The rest of your case is basically nonexistent.

[Shinobi]

Cool, guess I'll just be lynched because whatever.
/shrug

[Shinobi]

I already claimed.
I have no clue as to why I'm being lynched but okay.

[Shinobi]

If you guys are going to defend me, you should probably wall up and write a big case on why I shouldn't be lynched and tell everyone else who's a better vote.
I'd do it myself but that's probably flailing or something.

[Shinobi]

I'm getting lynched over that useless sack of uselessness.
You people are adorable.

[Shinobi]

I don't get off work until 5 and I have stuff to do until late tonight.
I can work on it as I go but it won't be done until late tonight or tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

If you guys are going to defend me, you should probably wall up and write a big case on why I shouldn't be lynched and tell everyone else who's a better vote.
I'd do it myself but that's probably flailing or something.

Do it anyway please.

Maybe I'm just falling for subtle AtE but I'm reading actual frustration / complacency rather than scum being like "I'm getting lynched, play it cool"


I'll get some quotes for reasoning of shinobi lynch that I disagree with. Honestly I think a lot of it is blown out of proportion. I really read shinobi as town.

Oh I'll defend myself - I'm just letting you know that asking for people to explain why they think I'm scum and disagreeing with it isn't enough at this juncture.
If you want to help keep me alive - a towncase will do wonders.

[Shinobi]

So, reads:

TheShadow: Scum - doesn't show up when his top lynch is at L-1. His top scumread is one that is completely unexplained. Obvious scum, should be lynched ASAP. Calling him a lurker and letting him slide is just bad.

Cobalt: Also scum - doesn't explain their reads under any circumstances, instead relying on generic lines like "they sound worse with every post - they look like scum scumhunting, not town scumhunting," without having any way to back up their statements. Relied on calling my slot a "policy lynch" without explaining why. It's bullshit but apparently everyone is okay with that because lolmeta.

Aeronaut: My third pick for scum - has been on site and posting elsewhere in yet doesn't care enough to show up despite the fact that the day is at an end and he isn't nearly caught up enough to make an informed decision. His only catchup post was centered on smearing scum on obvious things like people responding to questions and centering his scumreads on them being scum rather than the reasoning as to why they actually are. I think I confused him with beeboy earlier but I don't know what that says about beeboy.

Beeboy: null - has been posting but I can't really remember them having much impact on anything. He just sorta jumped on my bandwagon at the last second for...Reacting to something? His logic didn't really hold up since

Ika: town and someone I hope I never play with again. iirc he tends to be kind of spacey in regards to early game and tends to just hammer people whenever regardless of his alignment. It's annoying having him show up to play with me just so he can muck about and do nothing while I get lynched.

Silverwolf: null - I have no idea where to start here. I flip my read on her every 10 minutes. I'm fully aware my bias against people who tunnel me could be coloring my read but I genuinely have no idea.

Masq: probably town - I hated his early jump and am genuinely angry about it, but at least he's giving me some time to do stuff before he inevitably hammers me for what the fuck ever.

Something_Smart: possibly town? He's irrational and impossible to deal with but I can sort of see his posts coming from town, despite how misguided he is.

Aristo: possibly town? He said a bunch of stuff I liked earlier but he's nowhere to be found. I feel like he should be more interested than he is but it's plausible that he's just mia.

SnarkySnowman: probably town - I don't see a reason for scum to stick up for me here? But I'd really like to see his reasoning on why he likes me enough to start being vocal about disliking my wagon considering it's the only thing that defines him in this game thus far.

VLG: probably town - I thought his earlier push was hard to mimic for scum considering how much force he put behind it. Again, I see little reason for scum to call attention to themselves by proposing a variety of lynches and then trying to back me at EoD.

I lost my patience when I started talking about townies since I have few reasons to call anyone town at this point, but a bunch of people have to be.

[Shinobi]

I mucked up the beeboy read. Let me rewrite that:

Beeboy: null - has been posting but I can't really remember them having much impact on anything. He just sorta jumped on my bandwagon at the last second for being lazy at L-1? It's a garbage argument considering I've been getting tunneled for poor reasoning all game and I'm tired of it at this point and am only putting content out out of respect for people trying to win rather than because the game is "fun."

[Shinobi]

I was probably a bit extreme in saying I never wanted to play with ika again, but seriously dude - do something other than lollygag on my wagon please.

Pedit: Finally, jeez.

[Shinobi]

Can ika be scum here?

[Shinobi]

VOTE: TheShadow

That's exactly what I needed from you Shinobi but you are wrong about ika. His play has changed a lot. I have a hydra with him. It's different now. I guarantee it.

TheShadow was the worst vote on your wagon regardless of your alignment and has an extremely nervous tone. Would not be surprised at all to see this flip scum.

Also Shinobi, I will try to be less null as the game goes on. Just been real busy dealing with RL crap. I'll prob do ISO's and reads tomorrow.

Describe different, please.

[Shinobi]

why did we stop this lynch?

oh well idc

Dude, what?

[Shinobi]

Honestly we can kill SS just so he stops talking.

[Shinobi]

Kill?

Yes?

[Shinobi]

Yeah I'm voting Shadow for doing nothing and voting me for no reason.
The whole bit about the claim isn't very good.

[Shinobi]

Kill?

Yes?

Why did you choose the word 'kill' over 'lynch'?

I felt like it?

Also, I dont know which SS you mean (I guess something-smart?) but both are townleans so why the willingness to 'kill' him?

Because he is being annoying and difficult.
The only reason I even have him as town at this point is because I've run out of people to call mafia.

And you have ika as a townread, yet a few posts later you wonder if he could be scum. What did he do that made you say that?

Silver said stuff.
Honestly ika is so apathetic that he could easily still be scum - he doesn't seem to care at all about what's going on and him whining about losing his lynch while doing nothing to keep it going is scummy.

I thought some of his earlier posts were okay-ish but he's dropping pretty fast.

Your readslist is giving me the idea you posted that because you saw your 'I don't care'-attitude wasn't working to get you unlynched.

You got me.

maybe I'm in a tunnel

Yep!

[Shinobi]

Goody.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: aeronaut
Nothing has changed wrt this slot.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: ika

Yeah no. This is scum. I'm 90% sure.

Did your read on Aero change?

[Shinobi]

Shit, Viva is probably town.

No, Viva is probably Shinobi's scumbuddy.
(Which would make the other team {Supreme Overlord, Something_Smart} if I'm right on my reads. I'll check that in a bit. Need to get caught up first.)

You think Viva and Shinobi are a team after Viva's big push on Shinobi early in the day?

Hmm...I'll definitely reread these two. I don't see scum buddy interaction, but I may have missed it.

Can somebody present an actual case on Shadow instead of just saying "he's lurker scum"?

It doesn't look like it, but I'll see what I can do.

Aristo, did you ever follow up on these?

[Shinobi]

I'll be super busy today but I'll try to catch up during work tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Stupid Panthers.

[Shinobi]

@Ika
I'm not sure. I just think it's weird.
SO is an obvious scumfuck and the Cobalting kill proves it so bye.

Elaborate a bit more please?
The most I could glean from the last few pages was that "SO feels scummy so he's scum," so if anyone could clarify it beyond that that'd be swell.

Let's at least get an Aero replacement in here to post something before day ends since we have plenty of time please.

Yes please.

[Shinobi]

I still think the Aero slot is scum, btw.

[Shinobi]

How, exactly?

[Shinobi]

How, exactly?

This is at me I assume?

Correct.

[Shinobi]

He said it himself that he wanted Shadow hammered...
While he's voting ika for hammering...

I need to double check this.

[Shinobi]

Huh.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: aristo
Reads please.

[Shinobi]

I'm sorta V/LA until Sunday.
I'll be around but I doubt I'll be paying attention to this game until then.

[Shinobi]

Everyone seems to be absent...

Hopefully this game picks back up after the weekend, because we are in good shape to bring this home!

Technically I'm here but I'm still okay voting you, mostly because you circuitously tried to push scum on me by saying I'm the only person voted on that wasn't conftown.
It's a totally biased reason but I'm okay with it.

[Shinobi]

Feeling better yesterday didn't last as long as I hoped, but I'm here now.

VOTE: Shinobi

I read his iso. He has no interaction with Overlord whatsoever. When he made his readslist at L-1 he didn't include Overlord.

I don't think Shinobi is a good lynch. His reads list looks honest. One question, though: Shinobi, I'm literally the only person you left off your list. Why?
Actually, I don't think you've mentioned me at all. What the heck, man?

This is

I can't think anymore.

What Overlord said there looks towny but he wasn't town. I think they still could be buddies so I want to lynch Shinobi.

I didn't know scum!silver was so spineless.

Just rechecking his iso and well this^ Later his read went to null, Shinobi said he flipped on her a lot and couldn't really get a read. He doesn't do much later to get a better read at all.

Silver said stuff.
Honestly ika is so apathetic that he could easily still be scum - he doesn't seem to care at all about what's going on and him whining about losing his lynch while doing nothing to keep it going is scummy.

But here he trusts Silverwolf?

And?

[Shinobi]

I don't even understand what the point of that Masq post was, so, like, whatever.
Back to business:

Everyone seems to be absent...

Hopefully this game picks back up after the weekend, because we are in good shape to bring this home!

Technically I'm here but I'm still okay voting you, mostly because you circuitously tried to push scum on me by saying I'm the only person voted on that wasn't conftown.
It's a totally biased reason but I'm okay with it.

Merely an observation. I point out what I notice.

Is my vote on you? I think not!

Your observations must have led you to some sort of conclusion. What was that conclusion? If your conclusion was different from what I supposed you were implying, what was the point of bringing it up in the first place if you were going to contradict it anyway?

[Shinobi]

That last post was horrible. I could vote him.

I'm going to go through the associatives real quick.

From who?
I'm presuming you're talking about me but I am holding out hope that I'm not going to have to deal with more of this tunneling nonsense.

[Shinobi]

And?

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear but I believe you're ice mafia.

No, I got that part - it's just that you didn't really say anything valuable. You just harped on me not talking about someone (which is provably untrue, btw) and said that you couldn't follow how I almost changed my read on someone.

Neither of these points are particularly compelling.

[Shinobi]

The fact that my slot is the one you're talking about is entirely irrelevant. I'm unenthused with your response.

[Shinobi]

In fact yeah I can't really carry on atm.

I need a Shinobi flip. Lynch it.

The fuck.

[Shinobi]

SO was a major wagon at this point.

What are the chances that he just HAPPENS to forget about him in the readslist?

I flat out said I wasn't concerned with him because he was one of the few people not tunneling me.

[Shinobi]

I wasn't tunneling you either but I got a journal entry?

Yes you fucking were.

[Shinobi]

The entire first section of the game was you death tunneling me over next to nothing.
Now it doesn't matter?
Lolk.

[Shinobi]

I'm sorry if I got a little heated but this is mega annoying.

[Shinobi]

SO was a major wagon at this point.

What are the chances that he just HAPPENS to forget about him in the readslist?

I flat out said I wasn't concerned with him because he was one of the few people not tunneling me.

Wait...everyone except SO was tunneling you?
I don't recall it being quite so widespread. But woe is you I guess.

Wouldn't it make sense for scum not to tunnel a scum mate anyway?
I don't think this argument helps you very much.

It doesn't mean anything is the point I'm making.
Me not posting about one person who left me alone during the rather nonsensical day 1 doesn't really tell anyone anything aside from the fact that I wasn't interested in talking about him. I didn't think it would be that hard for people to make that kind of conclusion but apparently I was wrong.

[Shinobi]

SO was a major wagon at this point.

What are the chances that he just HAPPENS to forget about him in the readslist?

I flat out said I wasn't concerned with him because he was one of the few people not tunneling me.

When was this?

You don't bring him up at all anywhere near that post as far as I can see.

A while beforehand.
I started talking about him again during day 2 but ika hammered him too quickly for me to reassess the slot.

[Shinobi]

Fire is Ice. (Lol.)
Let's see:
Droog did very little all of day 1. The only vote he placed was an "experiment" which he unvoted later without ever explaining. He only gave out a few reads and only took a strong stance on beeboy.

Aero also did little. He socialized with Silver and pulled out a scumread on Shinobi and Masq based on the first four pages.

Then Fire comes in. He is immediately defensive (612) and immediately starts defending SO (625). He doubtcasts my case on SO in 627 and 629, and tries to get somebody to unvote in 633 and 635. Then he argues with ika for a while, putting out a mild scumread on Silver. All this time he is barely mentioning SO and SO is barely mentioning him.

Silver is killed by the Ice. Fire "knew something was up" (664) and proceeds to be defensive (675) and salty (680) and even claims not to be fire (681). He contributes unsupported scumreads (683), claims not fire again (699), and still has not explained any of his reads.

So yeah, Aristo, that's where your vote should be. I don't have as clear an idea who the Fire is (thinking Snarky or Masq probably), but I'm pretty sure about this.

This is not a terrible post.

[Shinobi]

This is not a terrible post.

Tell me why you think that.

I'll try to elaborate when I'm not at work.

[Shinobi]

This aristo pressure doesn't really seem to be very enlightening tbh.

[Shinobi]

lol @ Snarky post.

[Shinobi]

This is not a terrible post.

Tell me why you think that.

I thought I'd have something in-depth to say wrt this but I don't.
I agree with his assessments of Aero/droog and thought that his recap of Fire's posts was accurate.

Not entirely sure what you're looking for, tbh.

[Shinobi]

I remember writing a bit on Aero myself, actually.
I can't remember why I dropped it.

[Shinobi]

Well you're wrong.

If you're town and can walk me through some of your thought process I can explain where you went wrong.

You just up and declaring me Fire scum after being pressured like this reads as Ice scum who may mistakenly believe that I'm fire, but more importantly doesn't actually have any investment in searching for Ice and wants to avoid lynching anyone who could be lynched in the Ice pool and so you're going after me to avoid narrowing the pool of people who could be with SO. Putting me high on the Ice pool in particular feels really dirty because it looks like you're trying to pretend like you're scumhunting Ice as well instead of being blunt about saying 'Hey, I think X is Silverwolf's partner because Y.'

This looks like it was written by a crazy person.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Fire
I've lost a significant amount of faith in voting Aristo.
I'm feeling much better about this - both for SS's reasoning and for my own, earlier analysis on the slot's prior occupant.

[Shinobi]

Well you're wrong.

If you're town and can walk me through some of your thought process I can explain where you went wrong.

You just up and declaring me Fire scum after being pressured like this reads as Ice scum who may mistakenly believe that I'm fire, but more importantly doesn't actually have any investment in searching for Ice and wants to avoid lynching anyone who could be lynched in the Ice pool and so you're going after me to avoid narrowing the pool of people who could be with SO. Putting me high on the Ice pool in particular feels really dirty because it looks like you're trying to pretend like you're scumhunting Ice as well instead of being blunt about saying 'Hey, I think X is Silverwolf's partner because Y.'

This looks like it was written by a crazy person.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean.

I wouldn't worry about it - it seemed a bit tinfoil-y to me but I'm not 100% that you're wrong.

I've lost a significant amount of faith in voting Aristo.
I'm feeling much better about this - both for SS's reasoning and for my own, earlier analysis on the slot's prior occupant.

It seems like the only faith you had in voting him was that he was using the fact that you were the only non-confirmed-town D1 wagon to push you... except he wasn't even voting you.
Did you ever have faith in him being scum? Iirc you voted him as pressure because you wanted him to explain his thoughts.

I always think there's a nonzero chance that whoever I vote is scum.

[Shinobi]

You voted him because there was a nonzero chance he was scum?

No?
The hell?

Can we not lynch Fire today?
I'm liking his slot a lot more since I did my reread.
Rather see a Snarky or Aristo or Masq lynch atm.
Let me finish reading shit and get my thoughts out.

Why not Fire, exactly?

[Shinobi]

Catching up tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Catching up.

[Shinobi]

Waiting for VLG to make a post. I want to lynch within SS or VLG I think.

Wait, what? Why?

[Shinobi]

Okay, I caught up.
For some reason we still haven't pushed FB to L-1 despite the fact that he's done nothing but dither about and post terrible votes on people for no reason whatsoever.

Why is this taking so long?

[Shinobi]

Yeah I just double checked lmao.


Whatever, still okay lynching the slot.

[Shinobi]

Stop acting like crazy people.

[Shinobi]

rofl

[Shinobi]

Ok so I finally went over Aero/Silver combined and that really looks like they're buddies trying to catch up with each other's thoughts. I can't believe someone would be so obvious about that. I need a think.

I'm getting so tired of this, this^ suggests Fire and Silver were buddies but I have more evidence that points to Firebringer being ice over fire.
Oh well, I guess he's scum either way does it really matter?

I still get stuck in my Shinobi-tunnel I wish the dude got lynched so he wasn't so much a distraction to me. I don;t like how he's keeping to the sidelines though, he seems to just watch what we're doing and I still am willing to lynch him.

Yeah I mean it's not like I'm trying to lynch someone or anything.
Oh wait.

[Shinobi]

Just an FYI that I'm never joining you in your crusade to do the strangest thing ever and will continue to vote firebringer.

[Shinobi]

Just an FYI that I'm never joining you in your crusade to do the strangest thing ever and will continue to vote firebringer.

Why me? Seriously this all relies my interactions with Silverwolf.
If you think I as scum would enter this game and immediately call my teammate scummy then none of you know me.

Nah I'm voting you because your slot is scummy outside of interactions.

[Shinobi]

Just dont' want you voting me for the wrong reasons mate.

So...It's okay that I'm voting you or something?

[Shinobi]

That's weird.

[Shinobi]

I don't understand you at all.

[Shinobi]

It's practically the equivalent of lylo for town though.

[Shinobi]

Nevermind, I miscounted lmao.
Don't try to mafia when you wake up.

[Shinobi]

Well, it could be.
It depends on how mafia shoots.

Regardless, we're on the eve of the most important lynch in the game and you're just okay with people voting you?

[Shinobi]

Can more people vote Something Smart please?

...Why?

[Shinobi]

I kind of want to lynch Aristo again.

[Shinobi]

I kind of want to lynch Aristo again.

...Why?

I keep looking at how content he is to constantly say that he needs to look into things and never follows up on any of it.
He seems super content to do little.

He just seems like such a background player and he's always super happy keeping it that way, which bothers me.

[Shinobi]

Unless you only said that to mock me.
In which case, congratulations - you did it.

[Shinobi]

RC why is fire town?
I think I asked before but I don't remember getting an answer.

[Shinobi]

Twenty hours.

[Shinobi]

I don't see Aero!icescum replacing out because SW called him out on his inactivity.
Fire's said some stuff today that's struck me as towny as well.
Plus, even if Fire was Ice, Snowman is being an idiot so we need to lynch in fire today.
It's between you and Marq. I'm leaning you atm.

Idgi?
What makes you think the replace was tactical?

[Shinobi]

Generally I think accusations of tactical replacements are garbage.

[Shinobi]

What was towny about fire's posting?

[Shinobi]

Shinobi, what's your read on Somethingsmart?

I remember him seeming sorta townie at several points.

[Shinobi]

I'd quantify that statement immediately but I'm on phone.

[Shinobi]

I still don't get why people are laying off of FB.
Did I miss a memo or something?

[Shinobi]

Not many hours till deadline, but tbh I'd rather no lynch than lynch Firebringer (because I think he's town)

BUT
WHY

[Shinobi]

I've been thinking about this at length and I think that a no lynch is actually quite good.
Both scum will most likely attempt to cross kill and if they succeed we could end up with groups of people cleared.
I can't make up my mind between SS and Masq atm. I'd prefer if we forced scum to shoot each other here.
It gives us a ton of information and since today is in effect MyLo I think it's probably the best answer.

Sure, why not.

[Shinobi]

I am amazed that mafia didn't double stack.

[Shinobi]

I'll also try to do stuff tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

I still think Fire is mafia but I'm willing to take a second look at things considering I'm still alive.
Naturally I recommend that everyone do that, including the guy that voted before everyone even checked in.

I thought I'd have more time for this game today but I really don't. I'm making no promises wrt my activity but I'll do my best.

[Shinobi]

Your logic makes sense, however, it also makes sense for scum, and I'm running around in circles trying to find one clear motivation in your posts.
I'm still leaning scum on you because your interactions with SW are the sketchiest, but I want to see a case on who you think is Fire.

@Ari, Shinobi, Fire: Who are your top Fire and Ice candidates?

I haven't paid a lick of attention to any of the associative nonsense going on atm.
I think Fire is mafia but that's the most solid read I have atm.

[Shinobi]

Gimme another day or two to do something here..inclement weather in Southern Ontario has me called into work.

Yourself and Fire are the last two who I had some suspicion on, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're still top picks.

Also maybe this guy, for being the wishy-washiest and most forgetful player in the history of the universe.

[Shinobi]

>:|

[Shinobi]

I should do a ISO of everyoen to figure this out.
Ill be back tomorrow with a least one player looked at.

dot dot dot

[Shinobi]

dot dot dot

Yeah well.....
I didn't do it cause I am lazy.

SUE ME!

Then un-lazy yourself and do it.

[Shinobi]

And?

[Shinobi]

Lynching you would be optimal if I were scum because I'm fairly sure you're town now and regardless of which scum faction I would be on the other scum would be highly unlikely to shoot me.
I would have no difficulty reviving my Firebringer!Fire theory and creating false justification for it to lynch you if that's what I wanted to do without anyone batting an eyelash.
Help me lynch scum and you won't have to worry about my alignment. easy!

I went back through the ISO of VIva and read this. Now it seems like normal RC kind of just being arrogant but it actually makes me think he says this stuff for people to also town read him.

Not to mention he did switch his reads up, and I think he thought it would be easier to manipulate me. With what we have...I am not crossing him off scum list yet.

Aimed at both Fire and Aristo.

[Shinobi]

lol

[Shinobi]

Okay, I expect something soonish.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: SS

We're doing this 1v1 today actually, but not for the reasons you guys will think.
I think that SS is actually Ice and not Fire. Aristophanes is the fire.
But, I don't think that I can muster the votes to lynch after today.
So, we're lynching him today.

I might be wrong and he might just be fire and this whole thing could be a waste of time, but this is where my head's at right now.

No.

[Shinobi]

SS what exactly makes Aristo town outside of the fact that you think that both Viva and FB are scum? Or is that your only reason?

[Shinobi]

That seems a bit stronger than simply "gut," but sure.

[Shinobi]

I feel far more confident lynching Fire than Viva regardless though.

[Shinobi]

From your POV, Fire is in {S_S, Viva} and Ice is in {Fire, Aristo}, right?

No.

Even if Firebringer is lynched today, you or Ari will have to choose between me and Viva tomorrow and I'm far less confident in that going well. So vote Viva today, and Fire tomorrow.

I don't think this 1v1 is as definitive as you think it is.

[Shinobi]

I might be misreading the situation horribly but my issue is in picking between Ari/RC - there are a number of posts that I felt were infinitely better coming from RC than there were from Ari. I can't remember a single time Ari was strictly against lynching anyone. His most recent post isn't even good - it's just another inconclusive recap of VCs that accomplishes nothing and makes him look like he's doing something while he afks during the endgame.

[Shinobi]

I will vote Aristo on the condition that if I'm not alive in endgame everyone speedvotes SS.

I'm positive that SS is ice mafia.

You're positive that anyone who votes you is mafia.

[Shinobi]

I will vote Aristo on the condition that if I'm not alive in endgame everyone speedvotes SS.

I'm positive that SS is ice mafia.

Shinobi, we need to lynch this today. I do think it's wise to sort Fire/Ari before we lynch, but Viva is definitely scum. Besides playing exactly like scum would (i.e. saying blatantly antitown things like this), he's playing to his scum meta and he's flailing.

I really need to see more from Fire and Ari today before I can effectively sort them, however.

I don't really see how that can be construed as antitown.

How exactly is he playing to his scum meta? Forgive me if I missed it.

[Shinobi]

We can add "suggesting horribly antitown plans" to the list of things that I hate about FB.

[Shinobi]

We can add "suggesting horribly antitown plans" to the list of things that I hate about FB.

Explain how my plan is awful.
If we mislynch right now we essentially lose.

Even if we lynch right, we are LYLO tomorrow.
We have better luck from where I stand for scum to hit each other than town getting a right lynch. Especially when you consider me your strongest scum read.

Because nolynching ensures that we have no chance of hitting scum and gives us no control over the gamestate?

[Shinobi]

Because nolynching ensures that we have no chance of hitting scum and gives us no control over the gamestate?

Who gives a shit about control over the gamestate, I have just told you its in scums best interest to hit each other right now at night.

If they don't, they will be in a 1v1v1 in which case town will not vote and then they 100% have to hit each other or lose/tie.

That's assuming they shoot each other, and there's a variety of things wrong with that line of thinking.
The worst case scenario is that one team hasn't figured out the other and we just flat-out lose by nolynching.

Is this really all you have to bring to the table after doing nothing all this time?

[Shinobi]

No, wait, hold on. I miscounted because I can't math.
That's not as terrible as I thought it was.

[Shinobi]

FB, plan aside - who is scum?
What's the likely outcome of us nolynching, IE who's going to be left and who would you be going after if you weren't shot?

PEdit - yeah, I realized what you were saying after the fact.

[Shinobi]

Like, the concept of doing nothing just seems so bad.
But it kind of seems like the best course of action now?

It's so

weird

.

[Shinobi]

Okay, so I'm open to the idea of nolynching here. I'll think it over for a while and see if there are any more downsides but it doesn't seem like a totally dead line here.

[Shinobi]

This is the lamest 5p lylo ever.

[Shinobi]

This is the lamest 5p lylo ever.

Its not LYLO tho. Its MYLO.

Whatever.
@Ss: I already told you who I'm suspicious of.

[Shinobi]

Has Ari been prodded?

[Shinobi]

Once again, Ari fails to deliver.
Shock and surprise.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: aristo
Just kill the slot. I'm done with this.

[Shinobi]

If I were the other scum I'd be putting in a lot more scumhunting effort as I'd be worried about looking towny.

But okay.

Just do something useful already for the love of all things.
This wifom is worthless.

[Shinobi]

Okay, reads then.

I think you are frustrated town.
I don't scumread Viva.

So I think Scum is in SS and FB.

Therefore,
VOTE: SS

Go on.

[Shinobi]

Ari is feeling more and more like apathetic scum who can't bring anything new to the discussion. But so is Firebringer... in particular this post. You must have some reads, why don't you vote on them?
I'm not following Ari's reads progression either. What makes Viva town? What do you think of my case?

I have explained why I don't want to vote, are you seriously going to ignore my whole argument of why we should no lynch? Seriously.

He already commented on it.

[Shinobi]

He already commented on it.

He says "you must have reads" I have expressed reads. Then he wonders why I don't vote on them? When I clearly expressed that I said we should no lynch. What part of No lynch goes with voting players?

Right.

[Shinobi]

Is RC actually planning to play this game any time soon or what?

[Shinobi]

This game isn't about odds, it's about scumhunting. We should be lynching Viva today.

The thing about no lynch that troubles me is that we have no control over who lives to the final 3. I am confident that the scum are Viva and probably Firebringer (and maybe Aristo), but that doesn't mean that the scum will agree with my reads enough to shoot correctly.

The thing that pings me about the case for no lynching is that if two town get shot then town loses. So to be confident in a no lynch, you have to be confident that at least one scum will shoot your scumreads, and only scum can be sure of that.

@Firebringer, Aristo, Shinobi: what is your read on Viva? Could you give some quotes or reasons to explain it?

I had him as town before but it was mostly because of his passion/tone in his earlier posting. I was able to follow a bunch of his earlier reads lists and it felt like he was trying to make things work as best he could.

I'm relatively annoyed with the fact that he dropped off the face of the earth because his play today has been horrid, but I can say that about almost everyone so I'm not even sure how much that's worth.

[Shinobi]

Has RC been prodded?

[Shinobi]

Sure you will.

[Shinobi]

I think it's safe to say that NL really is the best option at this point - there's maybe two people actually trying to scumhunt and the rest are afking and doing jack all. I honestly can't tell the difference between any of you anymore and I've given up on trying to figure it out.

[Shinobi]

I'm holding out some semblance of hope that RC will stop being awful some time soon.

[Shinobi]

You're probably just scum gloating about how he doesn't have to do anything to win.

[Shinobi]

Huh.

[Shinobi]

RC, where are your reads?

[Shinobi]

There were some associatives D1 that I thought virtually precluded you being Fire so there's that.

But I generally just think that it's Firebringer because I don't think you're scum in general and he would definitely have made the Aristo kill.

What are you thinking atm?

I'm not sure - I've been wrong a lot this game so I'm trying to reassess everything.
Tell me more about why FB is scum outside of the fact that you think I'm town.

[Shinobi]

I am about 90% sure Viva is last scum for a few reasons.
First of I went through ISO of Silverwolf.

Did a quick Ctrl+F, used both Shinobi and Viva to see mentions:

1 Mention Vivia
44 Mentions Shinobi.

If Shinobi were scum, why was Silverwolf bussing so much in here? It seems she didn't mention Viva to keep distance.

Also RC is alive in LYLO, another scum tell for you.

I don't really think this is enough tbh.
Is this all you've got?

[Shinobi]

Btw, did SS really shoot himself or is he just trolling?

[Shinobi]

SS shot himself because he thought Fire would shoot him and wanted to keep himself alive.
Guess this is one instance where it's good that people weren't listening to me.

This is a thing?