Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Eddie Cane]

/confirm

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: KMD

not RVS

[Eddie Cane]

revelation: old people dont understand jokes.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not replying to #51 if that's what you're waiting for Chamber. If you just meant 57 in general, nvm.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not replying to #51 if that's what you're waiting for Chamber. If you just meant 57 in general, nvm.

Your posts have been this and making RVS jokes.

Do you have an opinion on anything that has happened? Eg, Chamber v Pine?

Lots of stuff. I'm waiting for a bit to see what some people do. If I haven't done stuff by like page 10 get back to me.

[Eddie Cane]

Arrogant oldie thinking he knows better than me, complete with

bold

and

italics

. next time try underlining it I might understand better. You should check your math, though, because it's more like 1-2 days at max. I'm not going to rush my sorting because of a retarded wagon on me.

[Eddie Cane]

Arrogant oldie thinking he knows better than me, complete with

bold

and

italics

. next time try underlining it I might understand better. You should check your math, though, because it's more like 1-2 days at max. I'm not going to rush my sorting because of a retarded wagon on me.

Simmer down, Eddie.

I'm calm my man.

[Eddie Cane]

Sigh.

[Eddie Cane]

the game finally gets interesting

Vote Count

(5) Eddie Cane - MagnaofIllusion, insanity018, Kmd4390, petroleumjelly, chamber
(2) chamber - Pine, Old Man
(2) Pine - Axelrod, hitogoroshi
(2) Axelrod - roflcopter, Kison
(1) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG
(1) Kmd4390 - Eddie Cane
(1) petroleumjelly - Tywin Lannister

not voting:

Firebringer

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Eddie Cane]

my vote on kmd was serious, but not because 4th vote lolscummy if that clears things up.

[Eddie Cane]

well, I'm not waiting until Monday to post so I guess itll be today

[Eddie Cane]

CD and Old Man are blatantly town. Kison and Roflcopter are town too.

Tywin, Insanity, and Pine are also various levels of townie. I don't like the Pine wagon, he is the most pingy in this list but I think that's just his posting and at the very least he isn't an option today.

Axelrod is scummy and of the 4 wagons (Old Man who hadn't posted, Eddie who is me, Pine and Axel) its the best imo. Granted, I haven't read the above few posts in depth so we'll see.

Hito's 72 is goodish though I disagree with the vote. BTW, this is who I'm most excited to play with. Someone told me Hito's one of the greats.

I was waiting to see if KMD moved his vote and/or did anything townie without prompting - he didn't. I'll go over him and make a better post later. I've read the game, but I'm gonna do a post where I respond to the stuff earlier I wanted to too. I'm pretty high rn and don't feel like mafiaing more. Please stop being an asshole to me as it makes me not want to carry your asses.

Friends just finished rolling and calling me to go to the bar quick pocket notes: I remember random gut pings MoI town from pg 1 (annoying part comes later), chamber annoying and scummy, pj annoying and scummy, k gtg ill organize later

[Eddie Cane]

I think you're both town

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler:

So should we just lynch between Eddie and Pine who didn’t post in thread but confirmed?

I like Pine so ...

VOTE: Eddie

Sounds good!

VOTE: Eddie

town pings

Vote Eddie

Hito, Roflcopter is most exciting for me too. It's been a while.

(1)

The mod already acknowledged that you had confirmed. Why confirm in-thread now?

Vote: Eddie Cane

scum pings

claim: town pgo

Forgot to ask this ...

You are ok with being lynched the day before expected LYLO and thus will be busting tail to lynch scum right Cool? I can’t see you not being with this claim but want crystal clarity from you.

Why did/do you assume he was being serious?

don't get this, because its pretty obviously serious from the post 2 above this and i thought the point of geriatrics was that youre all super :lolserious: and don't fakeclaim.

This? Pretty unremarkable.

So nothing oddball at all to you of him confirming in thread after Korts had said all confirms are in (signifying he had not read that post) but then said his vote on KMD was not RVS (signifying that he had read KMD's posts to make a "serious" vote)?

Yeah maybe he's joking and all about it not being RVS ... still doesn't explain why he confirmed in thread. Given you confirmed via PM I'd have thought that would have resonated with you as strange since you didn't confirm after Day 1 started.

Also sammies are great as long as they are hot. No junk cold subs for this guy. What are your thoughts on chicken wings?

Just quoting this to say fuck off with "Eddie was the one who opened that door with his childish response to me.", you're talking down to me from your first post where you say you don't like me. It really illuminates how little you think of me when you argue this seriously about my /confirm being serious.

I find your reaction to your wagon to be a little off.

This is a good segway to why KMD is scum (1). Look at TM18. At the beginning of my game people but particularly LLD, Bulba, and T-Bone were all talking down to me - they "could not believe" a player could respect my reads. At the end of TM, the host said I played singularly the out of the tournament. The relevant part is here: https://gyazo.com/15919b28a5faa5e91f27695039bd9830 where KMD changed the tide of the game and people stopped being guzzlers. Its the same thing here, where people don't know me and don't respect me as a player, and town!KMD should have at least pointed out I'm not some newbie or shit. It was obvious to me from pregame that I was gonna get wagoned and/or mislynched at some point this game due to circlejerk, and it wasn't really surprising people managed to find a reason to wagon me before I posted. I would think town!KMD would defend me as a player rather than hopping on the wagon on the newbie, so yes, that's >rand chance of being scum, but its RVS. I was waiting to see if he'd defend people as people kept talking down to me, and he didn't. I would have rathered wait longer to give it more of a chance before saying it but V/LA.

Something can be directed towards someone without it being a question.

Vote: Eddie Cane

And that doesn't necessitate a reply.

Looking like we should lynch Eddie Cane, Pine, and Axelrod.

I also don't believe CooLDoG's claim, but I'm not terribly interested in the topic right now.

Lol

geriatric time waddupppppp

i'm excited to play with me too!

vote: axelrod

this is a better vote than eddie or pine

cooldog bruh if you're a pgo you should have claimed doctor to honeypot the scum

town pings

Eddie – I’ve done the math already chief. Maybe check yours. We’ll be a full two days in and at most have maybe 3.5 pages of content at that point. That takes us to page 4 to 4.5. Remember - most of page 1 is confirms that don’t count as actual content. So expectations at this point are to get to page 10 will be 6 more pages thus around 4 days. And with the weekend upcoming who knows if post rate declines or not. Glad you have time to pop in and empty post.

Threads pick up after RVS, and I said by page 10. Glad you have time to pop in and arrogant post.

Since my vote, he is trying to act tough/uninterested until the bandwagon on him melts away. I see no reason for it to. He is still currently my best guess for scum. His play seems nervous, and he is very obviously trying to wait things out. Even now, instead of contributing, he just posts fluff ("I'm not answering," "I'm waiting... get back to me," "I'm not going to rush...," "the game finally gets interesting").

Chamber shouldn't you be shooting stuff like this down since you metadived me apparently?

The mod already acknowledged that you had confirmed. Why confirm in-thread now?

too fixated

For the record, this is actually the reason why CD is probably telling the truth (or he's bad scum). You can only have two roles in a large normal that aren't on the normal whitelist. So it's a dangerous fakeclaim because Korts might have used both of those non-Normal roles for Town, in which case it's near guaranteed to come down to a 50/50 at some point. Although actually, as I type this, if Korts gives SCUM a non-Normal role it gives them license to fakeclaim one non-Normal role, so this is less strong than I was thinking.

Its a reason, yea. There's better ones but I think you're good enough to read into those.

Can you provide an example of where you've played like you have this game, but were town?

No.

No, that doesn't really clear it up. Why the serious scumread and any reasons for the townreads in 128? Especially the blatant townread on Old Man?

Considering you read 128 enough to respond to it, idk how you missed "I was waiting to see if KMD moved his vote and/or did anything townie without prompting - he didn't. I'll go over him and make a better post later."

Past games cooldog behaves just like this at least I seen him behave this upfront as scum in a past game that she’s ran along time ago.

Link?

Eddie’s 128 does nothing to make me want to move my vote. Look he’s given content now we can get off his back because we need him to save the Town! Except the one bit of content he actually needed to elaborate on was why KMD was a serious vote and look … that didn’t happen. I don’t really care much either way who he wants to call Town with the exception of OldMan who I don’t think looks Town at all.

I'm not the best player in this game, though I'm better than you. I said the tldr version and said I'd expand later, so that's a pretty awful angle to push. Not awful as scummy. I think you're town, though if I'm a vig I'll probably shoot you for sanity.

bored


CD is just town. I don't get the Old Man srs, its clearly a gimmick alt look at his fuckin name lmao. I guarantee someone in this game knows who it is and told him to sign up, because the signups were quick asf and what are the odds someone who hasn't been here in so long doesn't remember his PW and checks the site right for the geriatric signups and moreover picks the name "Old Man". His angleshooting with the avi feels genuine though I think its bunk. His catchup and pushes align well and they feel genuine too. Someone finally acknowledges whats happening in 110, and I don't think scum does that.

Kison's 1 post was good. Apparently his RVS vote is also townie lol!oldman. Fire walling = hilarious love u woofers <3, his posts are okay on this page, for fire this is basically the equivalent of uni essays. He trolls a lot more as scum and is very unmotivated, so if he keeps this up its strongly town indicative. I would hear why Pine thinks this is scum too. Roflcopter has few posts too but they're all good townie posts.

I think Tywin's townie in isolation, though if Pine is scum Hito is probably right. Pine probably isn't scum which is nice for read synchrony. Chamber and PJ being pushes at this point align pretty nicely with me. I couldn't say this before, but Pine and I had an ongoing game during this and his posting here felt like he was genuinely trying to sort me. 52 is pretty townie. his attempts to engage me ring genuine from the perspective he was a player who just saw me perform as (pocketed) town. some of his posts kind of felt buddy-y on the surface but i doubt he'd hard buddy me 2 games in a row in immediate succession so i don't read into it. pine is my most hesitant tr but i'm still gonna call him a tr above a lean and he's off the table for a lynch.

{Hito, KMD, Chamber, PJ, Axel} - not town pile.
Chamber, KMD, and PJ are who I'm mostly interested in lynching today. I'm not gonna act like my KMD read makes him 100% scum never lookin back but it wasn't RVS. Ya'll made a big deal of it, not me.

VOTE: Chamber

[Eddie Cane]

Could you show me the games you looked at?

[Eddie Cane]

Could you show me the games you looked at?

I'd rather see your example first.

If you stay in the game lemme know, ThinkBig's game is similar snark wise and half my town games I get demotivated at some point its usually certain players annoying me. Do you remember or have logs of our old site chat convos?

Oh I get it ... Eddie is just like Mathdino and RC. Well now at least I can calibrate my analysis of his posts through that particular filter. More later ...

While I'm friendsish with 1 of them, that's insulting as heck I showed you being the dick first and this is what you came back with? I've thick skin, but I would've liked an apology or acknowledgment or something. This is OOG mostly so don't waste a post replying to it tack it on to your next one.

Why? Please explain.

I talked about PJ, KMD, and Chamber I believe? Hito I don't have a read on but I'm not interested in lynching there today, and Axel has enough town pings it isn't my first choice.

Bold emphasis added – this is absolutely vital. My point on the issue of you stage setting was pretty clear I think – you’ve been white knighting Eddie since your arrival and I think you were setting the stage to attack pretty much everyone on the wagon upon his flip because you, as scum, know he isn’t your partner. But here you attempting to spin it as staging an attack regardless of alignment? Scummy

I appreciate this and am considering it a bit, but it feels pretty genuine for me. Also, <redacted> but see the bottom of this post.

Based on the link you provided, in Team Mafia somebody explicitly asked Kmd4390 thought about you as a player, and he gave a response about how he thinks well of you. In other words, Kmd4390 did not go out of his way to defend your play in that game. If that is correct (and it may not be), why would you think he would defend you on pages one/two in this game for reasons not even related to your issues in Team Mafia?

viewtopic.php?t=74686&f=127&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go ctrl F KMD for reference - KMD was not actually in that game, so no, they didn't defend me unprompted. However, he does try to engage with me from his first proxy post, and to read deeper I'm Skirt as well as Eddie. And actually, my iso might work for you too Chamber? viewtopic.php?t=74684&f=127&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go for more stuff, mostly just to show that even when he scumread me for something my predecessor did (aka undefendable by me) he still engaged with me a ton.

I don't get the Old Man srs, its clearly a gimmick alt look at his fuckin name lmao. I guarantee someone in this game knows who it is and told him to sign up, because the signups were quick asf and what are the odds someone who hasn't been here in so long doesn't remember his PW and checks the site right for the geriatric signups and moreover picks the name "Old Man". His angleshooting with the avi feels genuine though I think its bunk. His catchup and pushes align well and they feel genuine too. Someone finally acknowledges whats happening in 110, and I don't think scum does that.

Old Man voters, any reply to this? Unvoting me (MoI) or tring me (Rofl) and voting my strong TR is a bit of a slap in the face.

Pine, anything to say to my fire stuff? I know you addressed MoI on the last page while I was writing my post.

I'm more comfortable with Insanity town now. It felt like he was the person voting me who was most trying to sort me. Thanks ffery for your meta stuff. Mostly just waiting til monday now.

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler:

-snip-

first, why does it feel like almost all of your questions are directed towards me?

Pine I respect you want to make things less toxic but don’t feel the need if it is on my behalf. I think OldMan is specifically being insulting as a tactic. He’s clearly an alt and I get the feeling he thinks by being insulting he can “put me on tilt” as the poker term goes. It doesn’t bother me as I recognize it for what it is.

Yea, but wouldn't that put you on tilt towards him being scum? Idgi.

Sorry if you are insulted … but I can’t help that. You may not like the comparison (Math also dislikes it) but the three of you share a psychological profile keyed to certain common elements. Case in point – later in this same post you equate someone voting your strongest Townread as a slap in the face. That’s pretty telling to me and aligns very much with the mindset (not specific playstyle … you all have your own individual) I see with Math and used to see with RC before I made a specific goal to avoid playing with him.

On the issue of “me being a dick first” and wanting an apology – you jumped to a conclusion. My RVS post isn’t meant to say I dislike you. I don’t know you at all. I neither like or dislike you in general since you don’t have a common game history with me. Pine I do know and I do like. So if you feel that my post was a personal insult that’s a incorrect conclusion. However it is where I twigged to your psychological makeup. Take this for what you will. I certainly didn’t intend to insult you and feel saddened you took it as such.

This is the analysis Mastina gave of me for her team mafia team:

Eddie Cane/skirt skirt is by far the undeniably best scumhunter in this group. He is competent and he is one of the only players on mafiascum who is still capable of making good solid reasons when he is providing his reads. As a result, he is a huge threat. However, he is rather prone to insulting players. We're not going to get him ejected from the game and even could we that would be a deplorable strategy to try and employ, but what we CAN do is get him emotional because when he is emotional he is compromised. His charisma can go downhill fast, especially when he is stuck with people who won't listen. Still, the best solution for him is to nightkill him.

A huge part of how I sort is what Elli calls personality analysis, which is basically extracting meta from 1 game - I read a lot into people and their motivations. Mathdino is a pretty alright player and has the rare quality of trying to improve himself, and RC used to be a very good albeit sometimes toxic player. I don't appreciate being compared to RC because I'm trying to be the Nacho style of good (getting people to work together and factoring others' reads to make my own) rather than the old RC style of good (>>rand reads and screaming at people until I'm sheeped). We can talk about this more in postgame if it comes up though.

Well I’ll reply below but given our relative lack of common history I don’t know why you would expect me to sublimate my own thoughts to yours.

Its more like you acknowledged I'm town / might not be scum so you should hopefully want to dialogue / work with me at least somewhat, and you're voting someone I talked lots about so its an easy thing to engage with. I don't really expect it but its something I like.

OldMan was one of the last additions that occurred when Ecto and Shea chose not to confirm. So he had over 48 hours to get the alt up and running and thus I don’t necessarily think he was specifically invited. As to the “angleshooting” (which for the record I don’t follow what I assume was a MafiaUniverse generated term so take that for what it is worth) – he chose the avatar before he had his role PM. I saw it in the signup thread. So choosing that avatar isn’t a Town tell to me as he can certainly could have pulled a scum PM. And given who I think his main might be it certainly isn’t out of that players range to try to sell it as such when they are scum.

That's fair enough (I really wanted to play with Fishy ) but as Kison says below I still think its a gimmick alt of someone still around or at least around in discord or irc or wherever. Angleshooting is from MU and I've never played there either but its a useful word; yea, he chose the avi before he had the role pm, but its a weiiird ass angle to push if scum and I haven't got the impression its the sole focus of his reads or anything. If anything he probably decided to do that in pregame so its NAI, meh. The thing that worries me most about him is buddying but the kind of defense he gave in 110 isn't the kind of thing I find scum usually saying. I guess I just don't see what's scummy there and he has a panache that I like. Back to your first part about being tactically assholish, like what does he accomplish by tilting you? Your mislynch? The biggest town indicative thing to me is one of my favourite personal tells, dunno if I want to out that here yet though I'll wait to see how I feel about his lynch.

Given I think his play is suspect I don’t put much stock in his pushes aligning with Town play but understand why you would. Let me ask though – do you find scum playing to pocket you as Town when under attack? Something I think you should mull over.

Um, generalizing too much probably but sometimes. Not too often. I'm also wagoned rarely so it isn't something that comes up a lot.

Also – do your really given Fire making those two posts as his only content constitutes game engagement?

For that part of the game, ya. Like I said, if he keeps it up he's town, if he flakes on it and get bored he isn't necessarily scum but its much more likely.

Pine, you mentioned that the difference between your town and scum offering of your self-meta, was that, as town you'd make the previous post, while as scum you'd let others do the work and testify on your behalf instead. What do you make of Magna's lack of initiative in providing his own self-meta? Of note is that this would be identical as the action as you would have done yourself as scum. And what do you make by interpreting, deliberately or otherwise, my hints for the aforementioned as a personal attack, thereby devolving an otherwise civil argument into one laced with ad hominem?

Irrelevant.

I'd love for others to weigh in if they think you honestly were trying to get me to disclose some sort of self-assessment as scum as opposed to a specific attempt to insult and undermine.

Anyone not OldMan - please weigh in on this issue.

I would be lying if I said I read every word of his posts but I didn't get that no. The above interaction with you Old Man and Pine is confusing me a lot ngl

I don't think it says much one way or another whether he was invited, saw the game by chance, or knew the game was coming up & deliberately made an alt. Avatar gimmick seemed slimy & schmoozey. If it was an off the cuff, brief remark, I'd probably agree with you. His chamber push was pretty over the top & didn't seem genuine to me.

I think he's funny though.

I like the gimmick too - I don't think his avatar stuff can be anything worse than null though.

eddie i don't think you're scum but that doesn't mean i think all your reads are right. old man is all in on whiteknighting you, making your opinion of him pretty much the least consequential of anyone. don't take these things personally, difference of opinion in a mafia game should never be seen as "a slap in the face."

Yea, a LOT of his content is about me. Just checked, ctrl F Eddie had 69 results in his iso

if i have to read one more seventeen sentence paragraph on the minutia of what constitutes a newbie under what circumstances i'm going to lose my marbles. from my understanding geriatric games are meant to free us from the shackles of overactive games that the average player couldn't keep up with. writing a novella every time you post causes just about the same problem, and old man is pontificating for the sake of burying this thread in his wordiness and trying to bait people into wall battling him. let's kick this game inaugural geriatric game off with an appropriate dose of dramatic irony by lynching the elderly.

real fuckin shit, so much semantics. i'm tryna keep these quote walls not wordy for the most part i'm a player who plays real time mafia and is used to sorting with conversations so idk how to play with 10 posts

I'm starting to come around to where you are on Old Man. There's a lot there that seems disingenuous and calculated, and I'm not a fan. I'll be keeping my vote on Chamber, but I could see moving there too.

Kison said his Chamber push felt disingenuous; do you agree?

Sidebar: has anybody actually given a read on Tywin aside from "probably scum if Pine or Eddie are scum"?

[Eddie Cane]

Is it because I'm the best?

How bad is PJ at scum? lmao, his iso doesn't have a high level of effort at all is this like old people's versions of creature? What angleshooting seemed townie? Dunno man I think every one of his posts pinged me at least a bit I don't get a "very town" vibe

[Eddie Cane]

sick prodge

[Eddie Cane]

What prompted this? You have tons of posts between this one and the last time Insanity posted.

when i'm bored i reread stuff, here i have too many townreads so i was looking back at my wagon. 9 pages is less than most games ive played have within a day, its not a lot to skim.

-

waiting for kmd and boon and looking at a computer is hurting my head

[Eddie Cane]

also true

[Eddie Cane]

boonskiies = morality = chamber

this game is super slow i don't know how ya'll play at this pace without getting bored out of your mind

Vote Count

(4) Old Man - Kison, MagnaofIllusion, roflcopter, Pine
(2) Eddie Cane - petroleumjelly, Morality
(1) Pine - Axelrod
(1) Morality - Eddie Cane
(1) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG
(1) petroleumjelly - Tywin Lannister
(1) Tywin Lannister - Old Man
(1) Kison - hitogoroshi
(1) roflcopter - insanity018

not voting:

Firebringer, Kmd4390

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Eddie Cane]

It's not really a complaint PJ, and I was asked. I joined to see if I liked geriatric games. I dont understand what you're asking, seems like a dumb question easily answered by many of my posts?

[Eddie Cane]

Kison, is PyP the last game you played?

[Eddie Cane]

I don't understand the avatar gimmick and tbh I thought the townread on Kison had trolling vibes? What do you like about / what do you find genuine about it?

Well, kinda pointless to discuss it now because IC is unblockable so he's either getting nightkilled, lynched, or conf towned tomorrow and there's no real other scenarios (see below). I thought he was trying to stimulate discussion with that avatar stuff, as some weird RXN test thing. His posts just feel genuine I can't explain gut more than that.

Okay, I've had enough. Korts's biased mod intervention pretty much made the game unenjoyable for me when he overlooked how Magna starting being a dick to myself and other players first. And, I didn't even use abusive language, at the least let us settle it among ourselves. Anyway, I am no longer enjoying myself.

My wallposts are, admittedly, a waste of my time as well as yours. I will be posting normally from now.

First, I am moving on.

I fullclaim Day 2 Innocent Child.

I am interested to see how players MagnaofIllusion, Pine, and roflcopter re-evaluate in light of this new information.

Korts seems like a pretty damn good mod to me <3 That claim is something lol.

<<REDACTED>>

someone remind me to go back to this d2 if I forget. Importantish.

It is! The last game I played before that was a Team Mafia game by Vi in 2012.

ayy I've read most of that game. Looking at your game history was hard as hell there was a lot of random threads and almost no games.

Is it because I'm the best?

How bad is PJ at scum? lmao, his iso doesn't have a high level of effort at all is this like old people's versions of creature? What angleshooting seemed townie? Dunno man I think every one of his posts pinged me at least a bit I don't get a "very town" vibe

I have no more guesses fire but answer this please <3

[Eddie Cane]

fire's in my poe now ya i'll do an updated one in my next effortpost. doesn't help he ignored my questions immediately after his post and his last post was eh.

VOTE: KMD

its sad the two of the like three or four in this game im friends with (KMD and Boon) are my two biggest scumreads though

[Eddie Cane]

v/la until the 2nd

I have papers due, and life shit to do. I'll come back with pure fuckibg gold though.

to be fair, it is the second and this was well broadcasted

[Eddie Cane]

I am inclined to believe it because he wasn't L-1 and a FN / Cop / X claim would've got him through today for sure, plus a cop can get a CC. IC can't back out because its unblockable (lolvanillizer).

Insanity, where are you looking right now aside from Roflcopter? I don't think Rofl's scum like /at all/ but regardless good to flesh it out.

I don't like how Tywin's first post was almost entirely about myself and Pine and his second post barely addresses our existence. And, I don't know how you couldn't know the "case" on KMD its been clearly fleshed out by multiple people. I have a lot of stuff to say about his first catchup but waiting for the second one first so I don't influence it. Also, I've seen delayed IC before not that its relevant. I agree with your pushes in general, all people in my PoE (though I've thought about moving Axel out of it), but I really don't like how you're going about it.

[Eddie Cane]

Hurry up Boon.

Vote Count

(2) Eddie Cane - petroleumjelly, Morality
(2) Axelrod - Pine, roflcopter
(2) Tywin Lannister - Old Man, hitogoroshi
(2) Kmd4390 - MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane
(2) Pine - Axelrod, CooLDoG
(1) Morality - Firebringer
(1) hitogoroshi - Tywin Lannister
(1) roflcopter - insanity018
(1) Firebringer - Kison

not voting:

Kmd4390

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie 261 sniped me with a lot of shit I'm saying here and I don't know if that's him actually being town or in-thread coaching. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was gonna snipe the top part too but it was better to let you answer just in case.

If that's not the narrative I am supposed to gather from your posts, then what is? I don't really understand your playstyle, or why you have played the way you have played.

I can't tell you what my mindset is, lmao. Engage with Axel or KMD or whoever else has gave a depiction of my thoughts. I've explained my actions very clearly and if that's what you're asking I still don't understand. Also,

I will assume for the sake of argument that your "confirm" post was indeed a joke, though I am not sold on that.

scum fixating on something minute for something to latch onto probably. I am not sold on how someone could possibly believe that was serious. The rest of that paragraph is awful so :shrug:

V/LA until Saturday for my 16 hour work days Thursday and Friday.

sigh

what if old man is some kind of powerful scum role that they just really need to have alive on night one?

Then we trade a mislynch for the scum ninja, strongman, bp, ascetic, whatever other powerful scum role you're thinking of.

267: grunt of acknowledgment

Also can you tell me where you got the idea the Eddie wagon was policy?

I know why I think this. He can go first though.

Hurry up Boon.

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

lame

[Eddie Cane]

i could go for a lynch on hitogoroshi or Tywin if this day gets too long and we compromise between the two.

Don’t really like either of their postings up till now and don’t think I will get any quality read either since I don’t really want to read any of their posts either.

Magna is still better lynch in my eyes since if he is scum he will win at end game scenario. Gonna continue trusting my Cane of Eddie though. He wouldn’t steer me wrong <3

I've asked you the pj questions twice now friend

-> a.) Why did you make a joke "confirm" post without any indications in the post that it was a joke (e.g., adding a wink)? Why not just start the game with your Kmd4390 vote?
-> b.) Why did you fly off the handle in Post #83?
-> c.) Why did you post so many times without offering any opinions or questions (e.g., "I'm not replying," "I'm waiting... get back to me," "Sigh," "the game finally gets interesting")? Is this a modus operandi for you?

a.) I am in denial this is a serious question asked from someone with a decade + of experience.
b.) i didnt "fly of the handle", people dont get to talk down to me
c.) why don't you do a 5 minute skim of any of my games and get back to me.

[Eddie Cane]

Did you misvote?

lol

Your last completed game appears to be Touhou UCanPick5, where you were engaging with the game early and often by page two. You were Town.

I was also killed night 1 and tunnelled 2 people hard to a lynch and a subsequent dayvig the next day, both of whom were scum. It was a playerlist I knew most of the players in and I was very excited to play in.

Here's what I'll request. Please try to set aside your ego and answer my questions as best you can. Essentially what all of my questions are getting at are: why have been playing the way you are playing this game?

So the one comparable game I managed to find does not suggest you intentionally sit around obstinately on Day One, which you have implied is typical for you.

I didn't sit around obstinately on day 1, I sat around obstinately for 6 (?) pages. You didn't notice the fact in the other games I sometimes lurked out the beginning of the game completely? I can't do that here because you people post so damn slowly.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72708&user_select%5B%5D=29424
viewtopic.php?t=72576&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
I was stalling for time to see what KMD posted. He kept not posting relevant stuff, so I was having fun. In case you need a descriptor, I can cite the babylonian origins upon request but at this conjecture I feel Wikipedia shall suffice: "Fun is the enjoyment of pleasure, particularly in leisure activities. Fun is an experience often unexpected, informal or purposeless. It is an enjoyable distraction, diverting the mind and body from any serious task or contributing an extra dimension to it." (“Fun.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 3 May 2018, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun.) I don't think I've been "playing" in any way, I think I've been much more helpful than you deserve with how you keep talking down to me. My posts so far are a LOT more effort than I put into most games.

[Eddie Cane]

[Eddie Cane]

I can talk down to you if you wish. I think you play like a jerk. You put others down while hoisting yourself up. You play with an ego, and it's a problem. I am very close to replacing out of this game because I would rather not try to continue playing with you.

Well then try talking to me like a equal and don't post dumb shit like "adding a wink" I'm engaging with you just fine. I'm not trying to make the game unenjoyable for you, I am enjoying it more myself now that every post isn't either at or about me.

In the first you cite (Mini Normal #1931, your 'style' was apparently to intentionally antagonize people to get 'reads' on them.

Because generally, I try to only talk down to people who I know aren't going to suffer personally from it. The two individual people I was most condescending to are probably Dunker and Una, and Dunker and I are fine and Una became my fanboy after that game (literally he's a cool kid). I also successfully docced twice out of 3 times in that game and sheeping my reads won it. I don't appreciate when everything you address to me is like you're trying to teach me. I need to work on my scum game, its good but it needs work. My town game is one of the best on site out of active players because I know how to push shit and read people. You are still talking to me like I'm a weaker new player who needs help.

2.) Eddie Cane, what do you think of Pine?

Still fits the bill of town lean. I don't have a strong read on him, I don't have any inclination to want to lynch him. General enjoyable presence.

You were waiting on me before doing...anything?

You'll get to where in the thread that explains this soon enough.

Still excited to see what KMD says in reply to me.

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie's wagon -
1. Magna's vote is what started it. He's the one who brought up the confirmations. I'd ask why he brought it up, but I mean...first post outside of confirmations, it's like the only thing that can really stand out. I don't see any reason why town or scum is more likely to notice that.

2. Insanity's vote is clearly wagoning for the sake of wagoning. That's normal in RVS. Also doesn't give me a read.

3. Hito's vote is more of the same along with an RQS-type question which I don't how it could be scummy unless someone wants to argue that he's buddying Rofl, but I don't see it. I'd give Hito a weak town read if anything.

4.Jelly's vote is the first one that stands out to me. He voted after Eddie posted and questioned him on it. He was the fifth vote. In my opinion, Jelly is the one who made this a serious push and it's not a push I like.

5. Chamber's vote isn't great in my opinion. It was delayed and came right after Pine began pressuring him (Chamber). It seemed more like he felt obligated to match his vote to his words than it felt like he was voting where he genuinely believed he'd find scum.

Pine's reaction - I believe him that he had a ruleset question and I believe him about what that question was. It was weird to me at first that he didn't specify what it was but I can see him not wanting to go into it. He initially replied calmly which means he wasn't at all rattled by being a topic of conversation to start the game. He gets a little heated later on, but nothing in that feels out of the ordinary for him.

Chamber's reaction to Eddie's reaction and Pine's vote on Chamber - I'm not sure what Chamber saw that he didn't like. Also not sure why Pine sees scum motivation in Chamber's post. I'm interested to know both of those things.

Axelrod - This one is weird to me. He seems to think that the case is that Eddie and Pine confirmed in a scum PT. I don't think anyone ever said that? Being willing to believe that, however, would have to be faked if he was scum and I think it's a reach to say that he'd think to do that at this point. Choosing to vote Pine over Eddie stands out as weird, but I don't think it's scummy. I'm gonna go ahead and throw Axel in the town bin for now...

Kison's reaction - Is the only opinion you have really that it's "silly"? No more details than that? Nothing on the people on the wagon?

But you had posted since these posts happened, and kept your vote on me and said nothing. Posts like 79 did not give any indication you weren't following the game. Why didn't you call out those votes sooner? Idgi.

[Eddie Cane]

I maintain that stance still, and because the fact that both got wagons first, going as far as L1 or L2 almost immediately makes me assume it was scum driven 100%.

The reason is obvious to me, but I'll try to explain. I've played mafia for a long time now both on MS and elsewhere, even before I create d this name (I forgot my older ones), and what I've seen in nearly every single game aside from a very small minority is that the first wagon or two is almost always on town. If the wagon is a bullshit case, it's almost 100% on town. I assume this in every single game, because it's a simple fact. Odds are that theyre scum driven when a player gets a fast wagon almost immediately after the game starts. Your one experience seeing it land on scum D1 without an actual reason beyond people not playing seriously is nothing more than a bad outlier. In fact, you defending that one and only time deal as a reason to be calling Pine, and thus me, 100% scum is a huge ping. It shows you have no real case on anyone. You don't have actual reads. It's just your scum way to form fake reads imo. I don't see how a competent townie would be unable to form solid reads past RVS with this much content.

viewtopic.php?p=9454354#p9454354

No, day 1 flash wagons are not "scum driven 100%", lol. If there's a day 1 flash lynch, and its on town, then there's always scum on the wagon. That's about the only useful theory thing to extrapolate from them. The speed a wagon forms is not AI. If that's all you're townreading (or not...? I don't know what most of your reads are besides a weird ladder of x srs y so z is scum) us for, shame. what are your strong reads in either direction?

I...don't TR Eddie?

Tsk tsk. Not living up to god status. Might need to switch my favourite to Kison.


VOTE: Morality

post boonskiies

[Eddie Cane]

This is as of #323
{OM, CD}
{Insanity, Kison}
{Roflcopter, MoI}
{Axel, Pine, Hito}
{Fire, Tywin}
{PJ}
{KMD}
{Morality}

[Eddie Cane]

Let's let KMD finish catching up Axel.

Also, Morality flaking is probably scum :/

[Eddie Cane]

not in general. here.

[Eddie Cane]

Hurry up Boon.

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

give your top 2 scum and town reads from wherever you're at in the thread with no justification

If you were active lurking, you should have answered this. If you weren't, you lied pointlessly which scum you doesn't really do, so I'll assume you were. You've never lurked this much in our games besides tactically as flavour leaf in Penguin mafia as scum IIRC, and in that normal where you were scum. What do you have so far?

[Eddie Cane]

Mhm. I guess we're 1v1ing then. I am in my town game through and through and I voted your slot because while meta can be manipulated (and I'm a very self aware player as you know) Chamber explicitly voted me because of meta.

[Eddie Cane]

Isn't Tammy supposed to be the old people version of Creature? God at town, shit at scum? If true this replacement is probably best case because we either get an amazing player or we get a free scum lynch.

-

I had more to add to 354 accidently hit post but Boon's gone so whatever.

[Eddie Cane]

sorry was teaching 9 hours and serving 5 today I'll do this tomorrow

[Eddie Cane]

Huh? I had my issues with Chamber in that slot, but Boon is right. Inactivity for him is usually a town tell. You acknowledge that in that last quote. Can you tell me why this time is different?

Boon knows my town and scum games, we have played together a LOT. His predecessor was scumreading me on meta, which is explicitly wrong because this is my town game blatantly and why I was tryna get Chamber to link the games he looked at. Boon also knows scum!him probably can't 1v1 me. Its more that that slot was probably scum and Boon flaking rather than fighting definitely didn't help that. Tammy's stuff doesn't seem bad so far though so we'll see where that goes. The reason I worded it as "lets 1v1" is because every time I've 1v1'd Boon we end up correctly townreading each other or scum!him gets lynched. The one true 1v1 we had with screaming and shit was the former and we townblocked hard.

-

KMD's catchup is alright. He's good at scum and I'm still not entirely sure how to read him, but I've got him right /most/ of the time I think minus falsely SRing him in TM. KMD, why am I so solidly town for you? I don't really get it from your posts.

Pine

Where's the Town side? Meta is invalid if you only look at one alignment, otherwise you end up with playstyle scumreading rather than scummy scumreading.

Tywin's 320 is essentially correct. I scum read hito for much the same reasons. I'm down to vote him if a wagon builds, else I stick to my slightly stronger scum read on pine.

Hito, can you link a couple scum and town games? What's the big difference? I looked in your ego search but couldn't find anything recent.

The way Hito talked about his town game being too hard to fake and making an alt to help and all that jazz sounded genuine / townie. I don't love his specific content especially with the expectation of him being the best player here, but I don't really think that comes from scum pending a review of his games.

He constantly pings him in ways that actually feel more like coaching than pursuing reads

Can you show me? Tywin is the last person I'd coach but me saying that doesn't really mean anything. I agree if Tywin is scum Pine is a likely bet for a partner.

Well, it's the timing of the post almost as much as the content of it. That was right after Chamber put down Vote #6, I believe. Vote #6 is no joke (or at least, it shouldn't be) Do you really not see where your post, immediately following that one, looks like tacit support for the wagon?

This and the related stuff is my main reason for doubting KMD here.

Eddie – Can you link me to the post or posts in general from Team Mafia you were referring to with KMD? Because his explanation really seems like a sidestep and I want see it firsthand at this juncture.

Didn't I? viewtopic.php?p=9901700#p9901700 and so on

No. Tammy is so much better a player than Creature this is rather insulting to Tammy I think.

Well obviously both of her games are way better, but Creature is a player everyone knows and is therefore good to draw parallels from. I don't think she was offended, and I definitely don't think Creature is god tier anything.

I absolutely don’t get it. And while I don’t want you to wall I’d love if you’d give me the short sell on why you feel so strongly on Axel.

I could use this too.

I have not gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to sort you at all. Rather, Pine's posts appear to be defending you from the get-go (including Post #52, which you cite). He has not questioned you at all (if anything, he has supplied explanations for you), or really engaged with you. The only 'interaction' I can even find is when he "passed" on discussing Firebringer with you (see Post #174).

Sorting doesn't mean asking a bunch of questions. He's sorting my alignment, internally. It followed off our last game and recent games are always more fresh in your subconscious.

-

VOTE: PJ

This is as of #323
{OM, CD}
{Insanity, Kison}
{Roflcopter, MoI}
{Axel, Pine, Hito}
{Fire, Tywin}
{PJ}
{KMD}
{Morality}

This is still mostly accurate, but I'll be able to sort KMD over time and Tammy will similarly become obvious.

The claims are a given. Also, both Old Man and CD seem town on play so no complaints there. Insanity still seems townie, Kison is still very townie in tone and this doesn't feel like pyp anyways (and any meta older than that is so far back its invalid).

The most interesting part of Rofl's posting is his Axel stuff. I can relate to being super confident and getting ignored, and I don't townread Axel too strongly, but his posting in general just feels alright and he hasn't pinged me recently. He had lots of opportunities to join my wagon and didn't. Looking back at his iso it just looks pretty townie in general. As asked above I would like to see Rofl's case. MoI's interactions with me all felt good. Not good as in I enjoyed them, a lot of his early game stuff was annoying as a bag of donkey dicks slapping against your face, but good as in townie. His progression on me felt real. I like him pursuing KMD now.

Pine, meh. Still up in the town leans for early game towncred. Could see it as scum. Don't really feel like voting here. I don't like most of Hito's content but I still think he's town. Can't really give a better explanation sorry, this'll pend his meta review. P E R S O N A L I T Y A N A L Y S I S.

Fire, I know you play up the don't give a fuck troll but in Spring Fever you were a productive solvy townie and the scum team of me / 3 nonexistent lurkers considered you enough of a thread to kill. Why is MoI scum? I need an explanation there better than presented. Give more reads. Solve. Do something. I townread your effort initially but your effort his slid a fuck ton and each one of your posts is progressively scummier than the last. And explain why I'm your top townread stop fuckin asking me lmao. I could move Fire up, meh. I do not like Tywin at all, and that's why I've generally avoided addressing him. However, what does point to town is a secret general tell I've used Elli's program to test that's been pretty effective in the past. Tywin needs to post more, I'll be able to get a read on him before the day's done. For now he's mostly nullannoying. PoE scumpool because lots of townie slots. Typical retarded reasons for reads. PJ's questions don't feel like they're actually trying to sort, he asks a lot of stupid ass ones and I don't just mean the ones directed at me. He's given very few stances in this game aside from his most recent posts. And,

1.) Eddie Cane, your idea of 'fun' seems to come at the expense of others. In the first you cite (Mini Normal #1931, your 'style' was apparently to intentionally antagonize people to get 'reads' on them.

I can talk down to you if you wish. I think you play like a jerk. You put others down while hoisting yourself up. You play with an ego, and it's a problem. I am very close to replacing out of this game because I would rather not try to continue playing with you.

I don't know why half of your ISO is questioning me if I'm such a gross player. You are the least enjoyable presence in this game so its mutual, and usually when I get this kind of annoyed with someone its because they're scum IE Hiraki, Chairman Doggo.

[Eddie Cane]

I have not gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to sort you at all. Rather, Pine's posts appear to be defending you from the get-go (including Post #52, which you cite). He has not questioned you at all (if anything, he has supplied explanations for you), or really engaged with you. The only 'interaction' I can even find is when he "passed" on discussing Firebringer with you (see Post #174).

Sorting doesn't mean asking a bunch of questions. He's sorting my alignment, internally. It followed off our last game and recent games are always more fresh in your subconscious.

Can you give a more in-depth explanation? Why and where have you gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to "sort" you this game?

You already listed posts...

-

Lol Hito I read some of 17 Kilos when diving Elli didn't remember you being in that game. I'll look through when I have more time.

[Eddie Cane]

the one good thing about month long deadlines is you cant really vla and miss a day

[Eddie Cane]

meh

[Eddie Cane]

You’ve been a dick this whole game Pine, just so you’re aware. That does not jibe with your anti-toxic kick you claim to be on.

I disagree?

[Eddie Cane]

my vote is on PJ

[Eddie Cane]

1.) Eddie Cane, please explain why you feel Pine is internally "sorting" you.

asking me the same retarded question while i'm busy irl for a third time is not going to make me answer quicker, maybe try 4 or 5?

I think Tammy's town. Sigh. I have too many townreads. There's a ton I want to reply to but too tired. Tammy, I'll answer your question properly, but you should ctrl F tywin in my iso that game imo, maybe dual iso us and look for his mentions of me too. He was p close to actively gamethrowing.

[Eddie Cane]

Lol Hito I read some of 17 Kilos when diving Elli didn't remember you being in that game. I'll look through when I have more time.

self reminder to not be lazy

He isn’t willing to vote any of his “suspects” and keeps his vote on Tammy who is near the top of his Town reads.

to be fair, from your POV isn't that a good thing?

Hey Eddie ... want to build a wagon on Firebringer with me? I'll be fun and productive ...

I don't really scumread him.

Third, chamber was being a dick

you mean my reaction wasn't bad?

They were actually for a similar thing. Magna wanted to know when you'd called people town early, Chamber wanted to know when Eddie had played specifically like this. Which I would guess is kinda lurky, sniping from the sidelines and not doing anything in general. I mean it's pretty easy to say yeah last game I took this approach as town was X.

I mean I did do this last game, lol. You've already referenced what game it was. Its a shitty general question though. I'm known as a player who's really sarcastic, kind of an asshole, and standoffish, so I didn't know what he was specifically looking for. I town lean you ATP but I didn't think he could have genuinely meta'd me and come to the conclusion I'm scum here.

Chamber might have been a dick about the newbie date thing in general, I agree there, but Eddie has been being a bit dickish himself.

I'm only a dick reactively. I'm teaching and also bartending, I put up with enough bullshit in person. I don't want to be the bigger person in mafia.

You did respond to Magna in a more amiable way though, while jumping in the middle of Chamber's questioning of someone else to crap on his attempt to get a read somewhere els

This is a fair point. The rest is meh, but I did appreciate one person advocating for me when I was being circlejerk wagoned. Which is why I disagree with

If you're on an anti-toxic kick lately, you're kinda doing that wrong.

Not much to say on Eddie except I kinda liked that part where he talked about "carrying everyone" but without knowing anything about Eddie I'm not sure whether that type of bravado is actually alignment indicative.

I think I do it more as town but I've done it as scum.

I have read through Pine's posts multiple times now, and I am legitimately not seeing it. He has been blindly defending you from pushes and has attacked those who attacked you (and invited you to vote chamber with him). It is no surprise he does not find the confirmation pushes to have any merit, since that would just make himself look bad. He first asked you to "simmer down," which was then later followed by Post #144, which reads as a second not-so-subtle attempt to request that you be less adversarial. This isn't sorting; this is advising.

I don't remember why I thought that. Looking back Pine's early stuff still doesn't look scummy to me. He's defending someone he knows is competent from stupid bullshit such as not adding a winkie face to a joke.

Pine's posting reads to me like he's your partner trying to defend against you being wagoned while advising you on how to change up your play to avoid garnering votes (see my Post #286 where I explain the connection tell).

incorrect

Lycanfire replaces Tywin Lannister.

LYCANNNN

[Eddie Cane]

Having trouble seeing the PetroleumJelly scum reads. Someone mentioned earlier they scum read him because he's throwing out a lot of questions. I quickly looked at some of his other games and it seems to be pretty standard for his play style. Someone else mentioned they didn't like his vote #5 on Eddie. Is that it?

his questions are generally just shit though, and about half his content this game is asking me bad questions while voteparking me.

I've said a handful of times why your waiting on me despite the wagon on you was town. And then there's the fact that I'm pretty sure there was scum on your wagon and I don't think they were bussing. There's also been nothing in your posts since then to suggest you are scum. Everything reads as a genuine effort to solve the game.

I guess I don't get why you aren't paranoid of me here like I remember you being in the last game we were both town in. I can't actually remember where I'm remembering that from though, so maybe I'm crazy.

I don't know Boon very well, but he seems like he's got a pretty big ego about his game and I can't imagine him running away even if he were scum, but that's neither here nor there because it's not what happened.

This is also fair. He likes scum and its definitely the better alignment for his playstyle, though recently he's been super lurky (busy with work).

Firebringer, your town read on Jelly is one I'm having trouble understanding and it's not just because I disagree with it. You seem to have the idea that he's borderline incompetent as scum which I don't at all get. And then any other mention of him is either just that he's definitely town and you saying that you already elaborated on him. Your read feels overstated if anything. I'd just like to know if there's more to it or if it's as simple as you don't think he can...well...play the game as scum. I'd imagine a guy who has been on the site for 13 years is capable of playing the way he has been so far so hopefully there's more to it or I'm just misunderstanding you completely.

facts

Pine – How’s that Fire reread coming?

self reminder to do this too

Agree with Kison that the Tywin flake makes me feel even better about the vote. Obviously flaking can happen as any alignment but this smells like a scum flake because of the cadence where his posts got progressively narrower in scope. Remember, 320 was his last post, and it was a single minded attempt to attack his way out of the hole. It didn't work and it earned him a couple more votes. So I can easily see flaking as being a symptom of just not having anything to say.

I don't think Tywin flaking is AI, when he got prodded the first time he got prodded in our other ongoing game too and he was town there. He was also generally posting in both at the same time, but less here.

Pine - In 153, you say that Firebringer's "Let's be Masons" thing could be a prelude to pocketing. Why? I thought that was a typical type of Firebringer statement.

It is.

I don't agree with Eddie on his 156 that a KMD!town was pretty much obligated to come out and defend him from an rvs wagon on the basis that he's a good player, but I like what it says about Eddie. It reminds me along the lines of how I've expected for certain players in the game to interact with me based on past games/personal interactions, etc. Don't know why he thought Tywin was town in isolation. Don't know why he thought Pine was genuinely sorting him, but I'm pretty sure I remember that being brought up and hashed out, so if that was a dream this is something I'll come back to if not, eh.

Because I was being policy lynched and aside from Pine he was really the only one saying anything about it. They can defend it all they want, but it isn't a coincidence the person with the newest join date ended up being l-2 within a couple pages.

Did ffery give you meta on insanity?

A bit. She didn't have much. I always do pregame meta QnA with my friends in games I'm going to be serious about.

where?

lol

You said you picked up on something he'd be more likely to do as town. What I meant was why do your reasons for scumreading him outweigh whatever that was?

I would be more interested in knowing what the thing was now that Tywin's gone.

EDDIE - You just finished a game with town!Tywin, who am I wrong people thought was scummy, is his play here different?

Definitely on both counts.

@Eddie Cane: Have you called anybody dogshit yet?

PJ maybe. I don't think so. <3

Can you tell us why you townread Eddie so strongly that you are happy to sheep his vote?

Probably the same reason KMD TRs me, but I want to see Doggo's answer too. He was the only scum I didn't hard SR in TM

I agree that I don't like those stances from Firebringer. However, I'm also feeling that his play is almost too blatant or too scummy to actually be scum.

what is your doggo read? pls no 2scum2bscum, that's never a good read.

Given that you're voting Hito at the moment, how do you feel about Tammy constantly repeating that she has a townread on Hito based on making a comment about "grubby hands"?

Can you explain what constantly repeating means to you?

haha

[Eddie Cane]

I'm talking about a different game. Shrug.

-

viewtopic.php?p=10161352#p10161352

Best interaction of the thread IMO, right down to Tywin not being able to show one of his precious personal insults.

viewtopic.php?p=10158517#p10158517

Tywin is very lynchabity as town despite wallposting, I saw that from an earlier metadive. Lemme go try and find the link. Don't really know why, probably something to do with having awful reads and nonsensical posts. E: can't find the link. His play here is worse than that other game, and I was FoSing him but mostly reading him as gamethrowing town in that game. I want to give Lycan space though, he can have incredibly accurate reads like insanely so and the way he gets them is kinda insane speaking from someone who was in a TM team with him. Not going to vote there anytime soon.

[Eddie Cane]

reasons to vote pj: 7 points against me that are absolute dogshit.

[Eddie Cane]

fuck that post makes me so angry I'm not doing this now

[Eddie Cane]

no, he can stay. replace me.

[Eddie Cane]

I have talked to both PJ and Eddie regarding the replacement requests.

Unfortunately, PJ insisted on leaving, and will be replaced as soon as I get back from my date tonight.

Spoke to the mod, and among other things PJ leaving means I have no reason to and Lycan is probably only here because I am so that would also be a dick move. I can go into what made me angry and why I offered to sub if people like, but usually I just get bitched at for my AtE so I won't unless its requested.

[Eddie Cane]

1.) Not confirming in-thread, though is at best a minor point. The theory here is that he could have possibly confirmed in a scum PT, or he could have been intentionally holding off an official in-thread confirmation, thinking it would allow him more time to talk in the scum PT before the game began.

Ok.

2.) After the Mod announced the game had begun -- i.e., everybody had confirmed -- Eddie Cane quietly confirmed in-thread and then made a "not RVS" vote.

Had nobody called out his in-thread confirmation, it would have appeared that he was just now confirming and hadn't realized the game had started until posting. I think this post was an intentional attempt to conform. It suggests without saying.

Okay, so this is a not toxic game, but may I just say I find it fucking hilarious you'd even try and sell this as a valid point. How many times have you been on the internet in your life? How many of those have had "something ie a winky face "?

3.) When pressed about both his confirmation and his non-RVS vote, he simply posted "revelation: old people don't understand jokes." This is problematic in multiple ways.

First, Eddie Cane is wedging the term "old people" into the game as a contrast to himself. While clearly not a newbie, he has multiple times 'explained' the votes on him as being because he has a more recent join date, and that his wagon is 'policy.' This is very obviously not the case. It's like he's trying to get the benefits of playing the newbie card while acknowledging he is not a newbie.

Second, Eddie Cane did not initially clarify whether he "confirmation" or his non-RVS vote was supposed to be a joke. His sweep is far too general.

Third, if the in-thread confirmation was a joke, then there were no suggestions that it was a joke. There are multiple ways that could have been done. And yet apparently adding a winky face (or literally any comment to suggest he was joking) is "stupid bullshit". Clearly it isn't, especially coming from somebody who already uses emoticons fairly frequently in their posting.

Firstly, the last game I played with old fucks had them all calling me a newbie until corrected by KMD.

Second, because that's not a fucking confusing thing. When the first post in the thread and subsequent wagon are because of something you didn't do, sarcastically doing that thing is a standard joke. That's not even a new thing. Adding a winky face (or literally any comment to suggest he was joking) is "stupid bullshit".

4.) Eddie Cane then declined to interact with chamber's legitimate prodding, and ultimately attempted to excuse himself from posting content potentially up to page 10 of the game (see Post #70). When he was correctly called out on this by MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane had the absurd over-reaction of:

Except, no. I said if I hadn't posted by page 10 to get back to me. I was waiting for KMD, and that usually happens within a day or two of games I'm in. Thinking back it also wasn't a huge ask because deadlines are a month anyways so lurking out of the day was not an option. I did not decline to interact with Chamber, I asked him what kind of meta he wanted because it was a broad as fuck question. Then he subbed.

This post is incredibly bad, and pretty childish overall.

First, and again, Eddie Cane draws a line between an ("arrogant") "oldie" and himself.

Second, he then tries to shift the discussion as if people are talking down to him (which is a constant theme when somebody is pressig him). That is not what's happening here. MagnaofIllusion was putting a stop to any attempts of Eddie Cane to avoid having to post content for a significant portion of the game.

Third, Eddie Cane dismisses his wagon as being "retarded." Besides being language he obviously shouldn't be avoiding, it's also not the case. RVS wagons are often necessary to give a game momentum (which he must know). The reasons for a wagon starting on him in this game are as legitimate as anything. And the two additional votes (from myself and chamber) were due to his reactions to his wagon.

First, the good players of this gen (mostly) don't immediately talk down to people like I thought Magna was. There is definitely a difference between how ya'll play and I do.

Second, they were. Lol. Good Magna buddying noted. Also, I responded to everything, as I've said already I respond to everything (mostly) including from scum reads as I don't believe in the scum tactic of just ignoring people and annoying them and I don't believe in putting someone as scum and never looking back regardless of how confident I am.

I should be avoiding retarded? This isn't the time for a philosophical debate but if people ask me not to use a word I don't (and Math asks me not to use that one in every game we play for example). You never even mentioned it existing. RVS wagons are the best way to get a game started, yep, I always laugh at people who fos me when I vote the biggest wagon specifically because its the biggest wagon early. It doesn't change the fact it happened on me specifically because well lets not rehash this again.

5.) When Eddie Cane gives his first post with reads in it (see Post #128), there is little explanation, but what stands out to me is how his reads seem to correlate with those on or off his wagon. His three scumreads (Kmd4390, myself, and chamber) are all players who were voting for him. His top two Townreads (CooLDog and Old Man) are a claimed power role and the guy going most all-out against the Eddie Wagon cane. His other two Townreads (Kison and roflcopter) are a player who finds the confirmation votes "silly" and a player who voted for Axelrod while saying it was a "better vote than eddie or pine."

Essentially, all of his stated reads appear be surface-level and reactionary as to whether players agree with the gist of the Eddie Cane/Pine push.

Don't talk about Old Man, he was the obvious town most of the game pushed until he was outed as a PR. CD is blatantly town too. Those are easy reads, and as scum they (well CD) would be easy and clean mislynches, so you could say I'm scum buddying sure but its funny you want to ship it as scum. Yea, my reads are kinda reactionary, that's true in all my games pretty much and fire / kmd / lycan can attest to that, and I have a >>>rand read accuracy so you call it what you want. Kison is also pretty damn townie in comparison to PyP now, but that was at 2 posts. I was right about one of those reads at least (you), possibly a second (KMD), probably not the third (Chamber), but that was early as fuck so I'm happy even if it is 1/3. I townhunt, not scum hunt, anyways. I can go full self meta if requested but again probably not wanted here.

6.) For my part, I tried to look at things from another angle at this point in the game. I did not like (and still do not like) Eddie Cane's posting, but it is certainly possible that part of my scumread on him can be attributed to me simply not liking his playstyle, and maybe his confirmation post was a poor joke.

I tried to ask him multiple times to explain his motivations as to why he was playing the way he was (see Post #195, Post #227, Post #263, Post #286, and Post #303). I still never really received a satisfactory answer.

At first he "couldn't tell me" what his mindset was, and then invited me to ask other players to fill in Eddie Cane's mindset for me (Post #278). He later sweeps away my questions again and then invites me to spend "five minutes" skimming any of his games (Post #289). After I do that, he basically reverts to insisting I am "talking down to him" (Post #306) when it is very clear I am just trying to get actual answers from him.

You never tried to look at things from another angle don't fucking try that. I have fucking 92 results in your ISO. For reference Hito had 8. Magna has 5. KMD has 18. You've spent all fucking game asking me questions, and I've answered all of them even if sharply, so don't give me shit about "a nonsatisfactory answer".

If that's not the narrative I am supposed to gather from your posts, then what is? I don't really understand your playstyle, or why you have played the way you have played.

how is someone supposed to answer "why do you have the playstyle you have" or "what is your narrative"? that's a loaded question. My "mindset" is to lynch scum, and my "mindset" as scum would be to get town lynched.

So now, the thing that Eddie Cane was initially thinking but couldn't say about Pine, and then he could say about Pine once their other game ended, is something he "can't remember." And apparently he can't figure out what it was by simply re-reading Pine's posts in this game.

I think Eddie Cane's "read" on Pine is completely fabricated. While initially giving his read, he expressly said that Pine was "engaging" with him, but after being pressed he withdraws and changes up the language, suggesting Pine is simply sorting him "internally" and therefore doesn't have to ask questions or actively discuss anything with him. And now he somehow doesn't remember where he got his impression.

~

Even now Eddie Cane's reads ultimately appear to be that people who support him in the game are Town, and people who attack (or "annoy") him in the game are scum, with the occasional nuance thrown in for players in-between. He continually avoids explaining himself, and acts offended when he is pressed. While clearly not a newbie, he is happy to jump to how "old" players are attacking him in a "circlejerk" of voting for a player with a recent join date.

I don't remember why I had a gut reaction a week or whatever after it happened. Looking back at his posts, I didn't have the same reaction, so I need to reevaluate. I was planning on rereading anyways, I always skim back through games. I remember being with him in the resistance game (which feels like it ended ages ago to me) and based on his reaction to that I thought he was sorting me here based on my play there which shows genuine peering. I don't remember which of his posts made me feel that way and it was old enough that it doesn't feel that way now. I'm not used to games being this slow paced, 2 weeks is excessive enough for me and those move much quicker usually - But, yes,

Point 7 and point 5 are "fair". I could see those as reasons to fos someone. The rest is not at all, and I can't really see someone genuinely believing them. PJ thought I was mislynchable, and he's been angling for it the full game. It is blatant these are playstyle points and PJ's written some of the guides there's no way he doesn't know that.

That said, if I were not still trying to get answers from Eddie Cane, my vote would likely be on either Kmd4390 or Tywin Lannister. (Or if I were in a pressure-voting mood, I could swing to voting roflcopter, Pine, or Morality). I am waiting for both of them to finish catching up and answer pending questions.

Except you have barely interacted with other players.

[Eddie Cane]

I feel like Eddie's anger here is scummy because it implies he thinks PJ is town (eg against his stated reads). I mean, is "anger" the reaction you get when your scum read pushes you? Surely it's the scums *job* to do bad pushes? When Tywin threw down on me, I didn't get angry at him, I was actually excited that his post was confirming the things I had an eye out for.

There's a difference between bad pushes and bullying a player for 20 pages. I can explain why I was angry if you'd like. Not really relevant.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm going to get to reads and Hito meta tomorrow, sorry. I am pretty heated for no good reason so I'm gonna not look at this thread.

[Eddie Cane]

{Old Man, CoolDoG, Kison, Axel, Tammy} feels like a pretty good town bloc. Insanity and Fire are probs town too.

[Eddie Cane]

... and MoI probs town, but he gets his own post for:

Um whut?

How is it beneficial at all FMPOV for Fire to be voting players I think are Town again? I mean other than making himself more obvious as scum anyway? I’d really like clarity on what the hell this is supposed to mean.

Sorry. Let me rephrase.

to be fair, from your POV isn't that a good thing? This is a hilarious joke because you are his top scumread and him not voting you means you aren't being voted. Winky face.

[Eddie Cane]

GINNNNNNNNGIEEEEEE

Eddie, I also insist that you not use the word 'retarded' pejoratively. It is just as offensive as slurs which make light of race, ethnicity, orientation, identity, or status. I'm not sure why that isn't clear to you yet.

The word dick is sexist, and people call people dicks all the time. This isn't the place for a philosophical debate. If people ask you not to use a word because it offends them, obviously respect that, but people some people being sensitive for whatever reason is not a reason to... not the place for a philosophical debate.

memes

haha this is gonna be funny

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie Cane I understand your frustration from PJ's case. Most of them are points that are trivial and the fact that he is still going on about something that happened during RVS can be understandably irritating.

Do the right thing and vote Lycanfire/Tywin with us.

The deadlines are long enough that nah I'm good

[Eddie Cane]

I don't like otherwise-engaged players using a long time until deadline as an excuse to cast these dead votes, because just punting until deadline scramble lowers the useful information we get throughout the day and lets people do deadline flops with these low-accountabiltiy asterisks of "well gee, I don't like any of these options, it's a real darn tootin shame that none of the options I like are on the table".

My vote isn't a dead vote. It is the second or third biggest wagon IIRC - 3 people. I also posted on it very recently, and we are waiting for that slots replacement to catch up. I don't need to compromise vote my friend who probably only subbed in because of me when I mildly scumread the slot, they have some of the best reads I know, and is not anywhere near as scummy as the slot I'm voting when there's longer than a normal MS day left.

I think PJ-slot is probably my strongest TR

So actually explain this?

[Eddie Cane]

I thought PJ's questions were largely productive ones I could see the sense of. I really liked 390 where he both a.) acknowledged a playstyle reason why his reads wouldn't be sticking in my head and b.) offered a bunch of reads unprompted - I think scum in that situation who are self-aware enough to say a.) are more than happy to leave it at that. His case on you seems borne of legitimate frustration and eagerness to act when scum-PJ could easily just say "well I'll just accept Eddie and I can't really read each other right now and join in on [some popular lynch target that is town]". I also think his points on the youPine interaction are very relevant and speak to legitimately deep investigation.

I really disagree with them being productive, they felt largely redundant. For example, the fact iirc like 5 of them were about an RVS joke. I also don't realllly agree with townreading someone for giving reads unprompted because anyone who's played mafia for a decade + knows you can't just not give reads. I get where you're coming from though, I was going to call him out for not having reads and he kind of ninja'd me with that which I thought was a lil townie. Scum him really doesn't have any reason to back off, there are a lot of mislynches needed (12:3) and a lot of people here are quite good so I don't think he can afford to just drop me. I was also a popular lynch target that was town, he was the 5th vote on me lmao. I also don't understand how he could be frustrated with me, I'd barely pushed him at that point and all that had happened was repeated questioning from him over and over and over.

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: rofl

[Eddie Cane]

anyone i listed in my recent post as a scumread - axel, insanity, pine, old man

town

town

maybe scum

ic

yea

nah

Can you briefly explain why PJ's post made you so angry? You acknowledged in 533 that some of his points may have been fair.

short version: I know its part of mafia, but I get a little stressed when I get pushed/cased and a lot more so when its in a game I think I could realistically be mislynched in. I get more stressed when its not a good case. I get even more stressed when the case is personally insulting and rehashing things we've been through over and over. He posted that right before work, and kind of ruined my shift because being in a shit mood and stressed while you're bartending is not a good place to be.

[Eddie Cane]

Yeah I'll be reading the last like 10 pages privately but consider me caught up enough

Also lol @ the old man for thinking I don't read the scum chat before I start posting in games.

If I was scum, why the fuck would I have even pushed you to begin with if I was told you were an IC beforehand

there's no day chat my scumfriend <3


-

I think sorting Hito wins this game. Also, I should probably go back and not glaze over Doggo's posts.

[Eddie Cane]

once again it kinda seem likes Eddie wants to be seen voting but does not actually care about his vote doin anything. with his snap on me for the comment on the PJ wagon I was thinking "oh, okay, so Eddies got some stuff brewing" but no just a weakass empty vote on rofl?

The other PJ votes were gone, no point staying there until Ginngie catches up. I havent had a computer and this game is pretty much impossible to play with quick 15-30 minute work breaks on mobile

[Eddie Cane]

However, what does point to town is a secret general tell I've used Elli's program to test that's been pretty effective in the past.

this doesnt mean I have a tywin tell, it's a general tell that kind of applies to tywin but Lycan is not being town so meh.

what are your thoughts on roflcopter tammy?

[Eddie Cane]

vla I'll let you know in a few days if I'm siteflaking

[Eddie Cane]

I'm back, catching up later. Sorry.

[Eddie Cane]

Do you have experience with either him or Lycanfire?

Tywin has always been a wall poster and I have a hard time caring about wall posters that are not mastina. What I do know is I agree with what you're saying about the general scummy-vibe because my past experience was with him in real folks blues 2 as scumbuds together.


Lycan I've had a couple of games and seen him play one in which I modded.

One thing I've noted in Lycan's scum play is that he can actually plan a lot and decide what moves to make in his head (via discussing it within a PT), but following through with his plan doesn't really happen. He kinda just sits there in the middle of the river as things go past him.

Also I remember Lycan as town being blunt as hell and I town read him for his honesty before. I don't remember reading lycan's post this game because I got bored reading the slog of wall posts past page 12 but I can ISO

This game feels an awful lot like shitting in a river

One thing I've been rolling around are people like rofl or pine who've just been Tywin's town or is fine when like he just reads so scummy. And I'm not typically a person who thinks you have to see exactly what I'm seeing, so it's not that, but it just feels weird. It's hard to determine what any of that could mean, if anything, until we have a flip or two there but it's on my mind right now.

Some people just townread a lot of words. If you do, you probably townread Tywin by default. Otherwise, he should pretty much always be scum or lynchbait, he's one of the scummiest players I've seen. Reflecting back this is more reminiscent of his scum game (which I haven't played with) than his town (which I have twice).

One thing I did realize the other day is that I've thought most people seem fine. I think the only people I haven't said are fine are insanity, tywin, pine, pj and kmd. I think. So I need to get a better handle on how I actually feel about people.

I have this problem. Too many townreads. Like, I want to townread Rofl on gut/town but logically he's just scum doing garbage pushes.

Also I am getting bored because I want Tywin/Lycan to flip but certain players are either stalling the day to its maximum one-month deadline or are trying to form counterwagons, which I will proceed to prosecute tomorrow after Lycan's alignment is revealed.

Can you sum up what makes you so certain he's scum?

[Eddie Cane]

i completely do not care what tywin/lycan are even posting they could have posted a million ascii dicks and it would still be a day one mislynch wagon

lol

i'm so excited for old man to "refuse" to pop the ic tomorrow so we can hang him

a more sideyed lol

tammy post 627: it is so weird that rofl doesn't see tywin as scummy like i do

so tywin is scummy? i dont get your stance

like seriously i really want to trust my tammy townread but ffs stop pushing what you basically just admitted is a village idiot lynch

"this guy always looks scummy perfect day one lynch amiright?"

i am not on tywin,

what makes him town? unless you're just nullreading him and saying that makes him 75% (ish cba calculating) likely to be town?

Also Rofl is still Town and 633 reaffirms that for me. And Eddie’s vote for him at 604 stinks.

maybe he shouldn't do shit pushes and votes

[Eddie Cane]

633 reaffirms that for me.

how does this reaffirm anything?

Nothing personal Eddie but I have a hard time believing this and at the same time buying in to your self-provided stance that you are one of the best players of your generation on site.

Also the bolded I can’t connect with at all as coming from Town. I relish having scum make garbage cases against me as Town as it makes my job that much easier in finding and hanging them. Not stressed. And the repetition should work on similar lines because Appeal to Repetition is a thing. And hell even if you think PJ’s slot is bad Town a garbage case isn’t going to move the meter without scum having to get their hands very dirty to push a mislynch behind it.

skirt skirt: Eddie Cane/skirt skirt is by far the undeniably best scumhunter in this group. He is competent and he is one of the only players on mafiascum who is still capable of making good solid reasons when he is providing his reads. As a result, he is a huge threat. However, he is rather prone to insulting players. We're not going to get him ejected from the game and even could we that would be a deplorable strategy to try and employ, but what we CAN do is get him emotional because when he is emotional he is compromised. His charisma can go downhill fast, especially when he is stuck with people who won't listen. Still, the best solution for him is to nightkill him.

You're a player who loves and excels at being scum, it makes sense you'd love the rush of getting cased. I hate being scum. I am aware of my flaws as a player and being emotional is probably the second biggest (after being an asshole). I have a hard time believing you've never played with good players that don't love getting pushed.

Still feel KMD is scummy but getting no traction there.

This would be more likely to track with me than an Axel vote.

So there you go, let's vote hito. Axle is a toss-up wall poster to me, half the shit he says I agree with, the other half I don't.

How caught up are you?

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie - What do you teach?

Didn't mean to ignore this! I am 19, I tutor but whenever I'm not busy with work/Uni I help out in the local elementary school, usually grade 5. Emergency subbing, lunchroom helper, etc, they find ways to pay me. I probably want to teach high school later on. For now, I'm majoring in psych technically.

Ginngie - I noticed earlier that you have Eddie Cane in your signature. Why haven't you been interacting with him?

That's a team mafia bet by the way. I don't know Ginngie outside of having played 3 or 4 games together.

Why do you think he's actually town???

this

Magna - My vote is where it is because I didn't do the traditional unvote when I replaced in. As for your bolded on Eddie - I understand why you would think that coming from your point of view, but as someone who has had some pretty bad emotional reactions to cases made on me by people I think are scum, I don't think it's necessarily scum indicative. It's not logical and it's not good play, but sometimes emotions don't make sense. I guess I would see it as scum if he thought in this player list playing up his emotions would get him town read, but I think he has to be aware it would be the opposite here so it's not a good scum strategy. All in all it's probably more personality dependent than alignment dependent.

Yup. This is not the playerlist to AtE in, this is a playerlist that would just policy lynch you. One of my pregame analyses.

And Ginnnnngie - You say that you have Lycan as town, but you also said that as scum he lets the game go by him even though he has plans for what to do. Does the fact that he hasn't posted for four days, even though he's been on site, sound anything like him just letting the game go by him or?

This sub in might be the best I've ever had in game I've played. Turned a scummy ass slot into one I'm mindmelding a ton with.

-Insanity still town-

You said Axel and Insanity are both town. How'd you get there? You continually rate Insanity high in your readslists but all I see are pings in 156. Show me the way!

Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit.

Stop telling everyone that I'm good at scum. I have a 0% winrate as scum. All this shit does is make people doubt me for no reason. You did this in Restrictive Mafia and distracted me from scum.

hahahaha

but if you took my advice in TM you wouldn't be so lynchbaity

[Eddie Cane]

Lycan, I've repeatedly explained my "interference" with Chamber. I did not feel it was a valid, AI line of questioning. I felt it was kicking at an easy target while he was down.

What? Everyone

wasn't

being perfectly pleasant to me? Blasphemy! /s winky face

Are you actually caught up? Because either you have an absolute lack of grasp on the game-state if you are caught up or you actually need to read. Axel isn’t getting lynched without the equivalent of him claiming scum or a daycop claim. There isn’t any momentum there. 12 days at the pace of a Geriatric game is much shorter than you seem to be hinting here.

FUCKING RICH

WHEN

VOTE: Axel

40 MINUTES LATER HE FUCKING VOTES HIM

Why would you seriously ride my ass like that just to go on and vote him? That's bloody stupid

hahaha

I have two more posts too.

VOTE: Ginngie

Shadoweh pretended to be drunk in Team Mafia and was scum. I called her on it. Currently a flawless tell.

yea hahahaha do you remember me telling you to literally call shadoweh out

when will people realize being drunk doesn't make you type like that...

UMMMMMMMMMMM pretending to be drunk scum tell? I'm in an alternate universe someone save me. I feel like I remember Thor using that tell years ago on town if I might add. BZZZZZZZZ Not an actual tell. If Ginngie's scum it's not because she's drunk right now.

I have an "annoying" scum tell that has a high accuracy rate, like 75% (3/4) so far. certain kind of annoying. I can confirm thats a legit thing from our tm discord chat LOL fun times

Eddie is your rofl vote just because you don't agree with his reads or is there more I'm missing or forgetting?

to express disapproval of his axel vote mostly. disappointed nobody else joined. i'm still not willing to vote axel.

(tbh haven't focused on at all: KMD, insanity, Eddie)

exqueeze me

I do have a weak town read on firebringer. The difference between my reads and yours may be as simple as that I try not to have null reads. I like to be able to say one way or the other even if it's very weak or just gut.

ye same



god reading this game is a slog i'll continue later

[Eddie Cane]

Prodge.
not playing this game right now.

I support the votes on hito.

reads havent changed

self reminder: look back at fire's posts and try to actually read them

<3

Here & reading up now. Realistically, I don't see myself voting anyone besides Axel or staying on Lycan at this point. I like the composition of the Axel wagon better but feel better about Lycan being scum, so going to focus on Axel in catching up.

Found rofl's buddy ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

But to expand on that why is Lycan making a couple posts with content enough to make him solid town but almost everyone else with content you’re just mixed about?

has it been established yet its a meta read or does that come later

My read is that he's tunneling hard while not being at all interested in actually engaging me. That's sort of surface scummy, but it's something Town can also do, particularly if they're otherwise disengaged from the game. Or just like to go by their "gut." Which it also feels like he has been and could be doing. So, he's probably like "bottom half" in terms of people I like, but not "bottom three." What's frustrating is him just saying "lynch Axel" "Lynch Axel" for the same (non) reasons, and then blithely ignoring when I respond to him. That's going to put me on tilt as much as anything.

iirc you have a lot of experience with rofl - how does this jive with how town!him or scum!him has treated you in the past?

The thing with Lycan is that he's playing the opposite of what I know of him in DBZ and he was scum in DBZ so I see town here.

Meh. In team mafia he wasn't really posting like he is here either, and he was town there. Maybe cause he had our discord :shrug: I will amend he was the last person on our team we would've given scum too 'cept maybe JJ

Here’s the thing – I do think it isn’t out of the realm of possibility for hypo-scum Eddie to look at the current playerlist and thinkg “AtE will net me Town reads”. Or at least draw more net Town reads than negative reactions. You are very in touch with emotional play and KMD has made it clear he gets that more than my more emotionally muted approach. And I think players like Fire, Lycan and Gin clearly might expect it from Eddie. So I’m not willing to not at least think about it.

as said, its very obvious looking at this playerlist this is not a game to spam AtE in. most people here are like 30+ and would just policy lynch it. also, you cited fire, lycan, and gin... 2 of those weren't in the game and fire is probably the singular least influential person in the original playerlist.

I still don’t like your Town reads that I don’t think are warranted.

Firebringer for example – I don’t think there is anything in his ISO that warrants Town reading that slot from a the perspective of an uninformed Town player.

Yet you just confirmed you have a soft Town read on the slot. Why?

lol'd

the problems with KMD's reads aren't the impossibility of thinking the dastardly firebringer is town

oh i remember one thing now

more axel votes please!!!

lol'd

[Eddie Cane]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

guess we haven't got to meta yet

but yea

that game is really different than here which is true

Lycan, what exactly is your catchup process? It looks like you're still far back because all of the post numbers you cite are pretty low. I can understand checking the current thread for questions and then going back, but why on earth would you spend so much time explicating your read on Axel based on your limited context? I mean, wouldn't that be pretty wasted effort if in post 300 or whatever Axel dropped some giant scum tell? It's the same thing with your Pine/chamber theory - you're spending a lot of time pushing it to us in the thread currently, whereas I would think that it's a more productive use of time to do "part 2" of the catchup instead of looping back to defend "part 1".

ye

excuse me while i continue to townread eddie, lynch axel without him and give no shits about what he thinks of me

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

I have no interest in an axel lynch though!

This is the least fun flaming piece of shit I've ever taken part in.

welcome to the jungle

1) WHY THE FUCK AM I TOLD TO READ THE THREAD EVERY TIME I TRY TO CONTRIBUTE?

Not told. Asked. It is hard to follow your process because you seemingly erratically are responding to things.

i kept going. taking notes from my replace in and from where i was in the thread. these answers never materialized.

Actually, your style should enjoy this game pace no? I know how you do your god-sorting and less posts makes it WAY more feasible.

I started out trying to contribute, only to be tossed aside by one of the people I townread the most, tunneled on by another person I townread. Who was being tunneled on by someone that can't do anything better beyond tunnel an IC claim and tell me to read the thread. As for who Josh pushes at any given time, I haven't a fucking clue considering he went from shading Hitogorishi to becoming best buds with him.

Where did I shade Hito and where did I become best buds with him? I don't think I've given a strong stance on him all game. If you're talking about me, I didn't toss you to the side, I'm waiting to see what you come up with when you're done slogging through. I've been very clear about who I'm pushing as well.

I spent more time thinking about trying to read this game than I spent actually reading it. I kept being promised answers that never appeared. Here's a hint to not being horseshit town: when you see something scummy, you don't keep reading and trying to sort the person. You put noose around their neck because they legitimately have to die. The more information you have, the more likely you are to gain a shit read. I can give numerous examples of how I picked a player out early game doing scummy things as scum and tunnel them. Even worse is getting talked out of it. Do I tunnel towns too? Not nearly as often. Towns town up, scums are scum.

I mean yea

as KTS says, MS wolves are shit and you can catch a lot of them in the floundering early game and right before a lynch / twilight. the middle stuff they're usually better at. but you do need to keep trying to sort them. I told you you were too tunnelled on Dan and Quick.

703 Josh "Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit. "

I do not identify as Ginngie

If shit stinks why don't you vote it?

hmm

Maybe

because you can't just vote every random post you fos?

ginngie i think you're town but you're being sucked into shit reasoning. thanks for the town case but can you vote scum that isn't axel.

sources needed

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(4) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine, Ginngie
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(1) Pine - Axelrod
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane
(1) MagnaofIllusion - Lycanfire

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

4 days.

I hate this votecount. Somebody should ELI5 why I should want to vote Axel or Lycan.

@Eddie Cane, what's your read on Lycanfire?

He hit a lot of what I was hoping town!him would, and I haven't seen his scum game but yes this looks wildly different from Ginngie's citation. Tywin was scummish, I lean town on the slot atp though pending on what Lycan comes up with. The biggest pings I have from him are his anger tbqh, I don't understand what pissed him off so much and this isn't the arrogant (in a good way) cool collectd LYcan

[Eddie Cane]

This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

What the actual fuck? In no way should this be a criticism and frankly I'm very bloody confused how you take issue with Fire for doing that.

lol

Also, if you ARE scum, I will take back everything bad I have said about you at the end of the game with no hard feelings at all. Because in that case, you'd simply be doing a fine job.

I actually kind of hope that's the case now.

..wat

did i miss some personal slight

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie Cane - Your top scumread roflcopter is hard pushing a desperate counterwagon to save my top scumread. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. Given that a Lycan lynch goes through (and he flips red), I guarantee the extermination of the bad bunny tomorrow. I need your vote to make it a hammer. Please join us.

Rofl is not my top scumread.

I have outgoing questions to you. You could also do the eli5 why I should vote Lycan.

[Eddie Cane]

you can thank scribing EQAO for a grade 6 that doesn't need a scribe for my recent string of posts. I hate looking over meta that isn't firsthand and value it a lot less, but its useful for what I'm trying to do here so

Also, yay typing on a public computer I can't swear on!

Last town games were 17 Kilos of Cocaine (2017) and Accounting Mafia (2017). For scum you have to go back to FTL Mafia (2014) and Arkham Horror Smalltown II (2013).

I actually read a little of 17 Kilos when metadiving Elli. I didn't remember you being there. However, based on post game, apparently you were a signficant contributor to the town win.

17:
generally aggressive
generally assertive
voting wise, you were pushing town early game and scum for the rest of it
obviously, almost perfect town win and you were on the day 1 scum lynch so early game is quite literal
I had more notes here but I lost my draft and I don't care enough to remake it
Low in terms of posting frequency

Accounting Mafia:
I looked at this too for some reason I think, havin dejavu.
viewtopic.php?p=9126551#p9126551 lol
Your lategame play wasn't what I was expecting, passive and on the mislynch lylo-1 but I wasn't in the game and don't have context. Thought you'd be screaming. I lightly read through the last couple phases (last 15ish pages)
Bottom in posting frequency
Pushed a Pine mislynch d1, snapped into a bit better reads, there's a reason you're alive in LyLo though in this one. Was on the Accountant mislynch early too. Was NOT on the scum lynch d3. etc
Wait but there was 3 lynches d2 and 2 were on scum.... wat are you doing to me woofers
Playstyle and posting style looks more passive than the above, and in general your play just seems a bit worse. Maybe an off game or something.
this game is rly annoying because if i didn't find some meta tone thing that made you lock town here i was basically going to BoP you but since you can be shit as town guess that's out the window
(don't know if you were actually shit I wasn't in the game, purely going by votes and ISO skimming) (looked in a bit more detail and see some bork fosing etc so maybe its not that bad)

Going back 3+ years for meta really dosen't mean much because of how people change in that time so those scum games aren't too helpful (play more loser) but
in FTL you were on the lower end of activity, closer to the middle though
you look less aggressive and assertive than you do in kilos (and here), but so did accounting so I don't know how much I can take from that
I don't see a big glaring difference from that and your town games.
Lol at town lynching scum three out of 4 days and being in mylo with an sk

Arkham
ayy mattp
ayy gif
activity closer to dead middle or even a little higher
looks a lot more lighthearted and passive than the others. particularly later on in the game, earlier in your iso it looked similar



-

I was expecting to see some huge tone difference based on your posting, stuff that's "too hard to replicate" etc
what's that?
your activity here is higher middle I believe but I don't think that's gonna be AI
you're more aggressive here which is mildly town indicative
it doesn't match what I was hoping to find though, some easy ass meta reads. what gives dilly bar

[Eddie Cane]

my eyes kinda glaze when I read most posts in this game, but Fire's particularly

Magna, what's there that makes it impossible to see town? This isn't remotely like how he played scum in hydra mafia or in team mafia, and the former isn't serious but the latter is theoretically the biggest competitive event on MS so its particularly relevant because if someone has an A game to bring they bring it there

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74684
I definitely didn't just link this so you could see me completely dominate scum even to the point of faking an inno on a townie who faked a guilty
oh hey ginngie

fire was the only scum i didn't tunnel, I had him as nulltown because my TM partner called him town and I had bigger fish to fry than a player who (no offense) was realistically never going to ndgame
viewtopic.php?t=74684&f=127&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go
Look at his iso here. Its long, ya. Most posts in the game. WAY more effort than he put into hydra mafia
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=74171
which fits with team mafia being A game, but the type of content is still vastly different. It is understandable wanting to do a more formal game here, I'm doing it, but the type of content he has is also night and day.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=74171
I think there are literally 0 content posts here, meh. The more relevant one:

viewtopic.php?t=74684&f=127&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go
where there is some sprinkled into the crapposting, but still, the overall description of his play is best said by me:
viewtopic.php?p=9912738#p9912738 (above post for context and my actual read past the word useless)

Fire's play here is more reminiscent of whatever that RC game was where he was gamesolving I think, but I was scum and on a hydra and super checked out of that game due to irl so take it with a grain of salt.
I townread Fire pretty strongly after doing this (more than the lean before), this isn't anything like how he plays scum at all. Prove me wrong. @Moi specifically, show me why you can't fathom someone townreading him.

Aside from that, his indignance is very minorly townie, scum Fire has always been happy and shitposty in my games and the only time I've seen town him he was apathetic and checked out (small sample)

[Eddie Cane]

Ginngie
Kmd4390
Lycanfire

hitogoroshi

roflcopter

Old Man

Kison
MagnaofIllusion
insanity018

Tammy

Firebringer

Eddie Cane

Axelrod
CooLDoG
Pine

Leaves {Ginngie, KMD, Lycan, Rofl, Kison, MoI, Insanity, Axel, Pine} as people I would vote today as of now. Hito is the only ?able one above, but I think this is his town game and regardless he's not someone I'd vote. Still waiting from answers from a bunch of people,
Pine wants the day off because of his baby. Whatevs.
Insanity, Axel, Lycan, Kison, MoI are various degress of townie
Leaves Rofl, KMD, Ginngie. Rofl and KMD, moreso the former, have town pinged me. PoE points to them though. I'm probably wrong on a townread somewhere, but as far as day 1 goes this is my idea l lynch pool.

VOTE: Ginngie

If it comes down to Lycan v Axel I vote Lycan.
I think the only scumreads I have are Ginngie, Pine, kind of KMD. Sigh.

[Eddie Cane]

Ya know i don't once remember you saying anything about me besides that you scumread me dude

I'm scumreading PJ. You specifically have been a lot more focused and solvy than town!you has ever been with me, but your predecessor was damning.

Eddie I already linked you to Kids Tv Mafia. Again phone posting but going to say I don’t buy for an instant his ISO here has a single bit of game solving. Fire is probably going to throw a fit in response to this but mindlessly sheeping a player onto Town reads isn’t gamesolving. Neither is a series of a few fluffy Town reads. And I still don’t see any scum hunting at all given FMPOV his only scum read in me can be boiled down to “I dislike MOI and he’s good at scum Policy him”.

Sheeping town reads is a valid strategy if you're also producing content. Elli does it and he won paragon. 131, 133, 409 (no I did not click all the links), 469 are all good posts for him. That would be fluff from you or me, but we aren't players that regularly spend entire games doing almost nothing.

Eddie Cane, Old Man
PJ, Tammy
Cooldog
Everyone Else
Tywin
Pine, MOI

Also, you aren't his only scumread (as of back then anyhow)
All 3 are in my PoE, and at the time Tywin slot was scummier than it is now.

You

really

sound like you're scumreading him as a player. I gather you two have a history, do you read him right regularly? If ya I'll put more salt into your pancakes.

[Eddie Cane]

Lmao

By far the best performance you’ve seen by me apparently

is not remotely what I said

[Eddie Cane]

I repeat. Deadline is in 3 days

well then

VOTE: Lycan

[Eddie Cane]

hi I will consider some flashwagons if theres a good case but i will not be voting axel otherwise (bar over a no lynch)

lol at this game coming down to a deadline scramble

i r o n i c

[Eddie Cane]

3) Yeah I get he scumreads me, I did ask him about it at some point, and he literally just said it's all on PJ and not myself and said I was actually being a good noodle. You then see me go WTF real quick and Pine complimenting me.

still not what I said

good try though

hito and axel speixfically but also others please answer my outgoing questions

[Eddie Cane]

I dont know Lycan as well as you seem to think Tammy. I hadn't even heard of him before team mafia and this is literally our first game together

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: KMD

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie – I can see things that could be Town and things I could see from scum. I’m doing my best to temper my dislike for his constant appeals to how other see him as a great player from filtering into my read. Show don’t tell.

(:

Kindly fuck off. I'm one of the very few people who had a Tywin!Town read, and your bullshit pushes are doing work upending that.

...wat

I made it clear I was talking about Pine-Chamber and the most I got out of it was Petro asking about it, Insanity sneering at it and Ginngie making monkey faces at her for it. This is back to the point meant to be aimed at Hito in my 747 (ok I went stream of consciousness and it made more sense in my head) that the more information you take in, the more opportunities you afford to scum to talk you out of it. This game was the equivalent of a game with twice its paged just from sheer density. That's an information overload. There's a reason why I limited myself to KMD-Cooldog showing up to fill in the blanks.

But you specifically do your sorting off of individual posts. There are less individual posts. Unless I'm misremembering your process from discord (I left the TM server so I can't check), the post count should be all that matters and the density should be irrelevant.

Pine and Chamber both had their time in the sun, then didn't, and the best I got was "so did you read up yet?" Or in the case of Moi, flat out refusing to hear about anything I had to say about OM until I got to his claim (and somehow Moi was still tunneling when I showed up-so obviously what I had to say was relevant.)

i don't know what you're responding to here

542-605 has the progression that you didn't like Hito's read on Petro and you planted a giant flag in a grass saying "hey this person might be scum"?

well he's townreading my strongest scumread idk why you think I would like that

and not really. Yes he might be scum. no he probably isn't. the previous two sentences are the definition of a town read my guy. 605 doesn't qualify as shading.

In 505 you're scummy for how you pushed back on Petro.

hito's been fosing me most of the game at least a bit, including up to now (there is no "best buds" reversal)

In 505 you're scummy for how you pushed back on Petro. You two tango from 541-547 (all Hito seems to want to say on the subject) and you're #2 scum, behind me, while Hito wants to ignore me and tell me to RTFT. 547 is marked with this hilarious line. Not only are you #2 scum, but you are remarkably fair while being so!

weak

Ginngie's pred was one of the few that cared about anything I had to say, even when she was trying to hulk you like a one man army. 663 is a woke post, which I saw before. It was reminiscent of how KMD fingered Moi in 191 for starting the fire of your wagon. I voted Ginngie because people that think being drunk makes you stupid piss me off, and part of me wanted to see Ginngie make an ass of themself. Mainly though I wanted to see how Moi would digest it. He didn't. His response to Ginngie is in 701, and I feel the exact opposite about Ginngie's play here. Whether my vote was digested or not I don't know, but everyone ought to know that I'm worth keeping around now!

weak

Reminder that this was supposed to be the game solving read...

why are you still voting your expired and explained reaction test

He's a player that tunnelfucks on people like PJ or Kmd. Those votes were consistent with how I feel like he is as a player (this player must be in some way fundamentally wrong, so I must vote). What I didn't like is his attempt to sort Hito... then vote onto me. The method is there, but the arrow went far. I don't think Josh actually believes I'm scum.

I never said I scumread you?

2) Knowing what I know about Eddie, I'd be talking to a brick wall because ego clashing and I highly doubt he would respect a single thing I would ever say in mafia ever after TM18.

It was more funny than infuriating fwiw. Now I get to laugh at MS for town faking a guilty on town in the best tour of the year.

Who left: rofl, Insanity, Eddie

Your only comments towards me were strongly town though?

Axel himself just reads completely fine for me.

*nods*

I could easily see Inanity as scum. Her overall posting is generally fine and while she's fine tonally, it's not alignment indicative.

still town imo.

I'm pretty sure I know who OldMan's main is so this last second addition to my advice - having the main replace into this slot in combination with not activating IC tomorrow is an absolute lock 100% scum-claim.

who? he doesn't have to tell us but we have the right to talk about it.

Eddie - you called Lycan your friend and said he probably replaced in to play with you, so I thoight you had more experience. My bad.

We are atp, we talked a LOT in team mafia and our whole team is pretty tight as far as mafia friends go now. He can clarify why he /in'd.

For example, there is approximately <1% chance that Ginngie is scum. There is just no way she (he? sorry, I'm still not sure) does a reversal on me like that this close to a deadline. Not when it would be SO EASY to just say nothing, let it ride, let other people continue to push it for you. You could try to argue "oh, she's trying to gain credibility for later" but the fact is, scum also HATE to reverse themselves. So much easier to just be "consistent." It just wouldn't happen.

he

but... this assumes Lycan isn't also a mislynch?

Kison was the one who used Tywin's replace out to supplement his already scum read. I didn't realize that the first time around, so meh. Tonally I've liked some of his posts, but I forget he's in the game a lot.

Yea Kison wya boi.

Have you played with him though? 1 sample of 1 alignment obviously isn't lock, but this looked v different from his last game and ya he's very genuine sounding.

As to Eddie's "Sheeping is perfect good scum-hunting Elli does it and won a scummy" stance - I don't buy that for a second. It is a bad Appeal to Authority given that Elli clearly did not win Paragon for blindly sheeping.

not remotely what I said

blindly sheeping is not a thing

finding a player better seasoned to read people and sheeping while still sorting, that's different.

fire's is questionable, but on principal sheeping your townreads is not a bad thing. and elli and i are good friends, i know how he plays. sheeping is obviously not his entire game or even the crux. its probably meta > fakemeta (personality analyses - v useful) > outsourcing reads (sheeping) > etc.

The last post you made that I could conceivably say contained any actual attempts to find scum (and not just be jovial fun old Fire who likes to have fun and be liked) is 409 and even that was over two weeks ago. I've heard you say in other games that you do things behind the scenes to scum hunt and just because you don't show it doesn't mean you aren't doing it. To which I say if I don't see you doing it here in the thread for all to see and judge I'm not going to assume it is happening elsewhere. Sorry that's a bad assumption you should expect anyone to make.

@fire@

The stuff that he's posting seems generally fine and there's nothing that jumps out as terribly bad. My previous concern about the fake emotional post is still there, but my concerns with his catchup style are not alignment indicative for him. That said, nothing in his posts really jumps out as town either.

KMD: an animated motion picture

it boggles my mind that no one else is even concerned by the fact that axel put actual effort into scrutinizing both kmd and tywin[lycan] earlier in this day and now that they are the only two viable lynches aside from himself he won't commit to either.

wh

I suspect that I would be voting one or the other of them at this point were I myself not also in the running. There's something about voting someone else to save your own skin that just feels wrong to me on a kind of primal level. Even someone I had suspicions about.

I don't get it. Obviously this isn't right, but how I interpreted this is "I don't vote my counterwagons because I feel bad"

[Eddie Cane]

stop ignoring me

[Eddie Cane]

hito its in the post about your meta

[Eddie Cane]

I'm at a farm with a couple dozen kittens and puppies all day (:

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Lycan

[Eddie Cane]

Its gonna be 3 scum with slight sk possibility (unlikely though after 1 flip n1)

-
insanity isnt a bad vote persay, def better than axel

more lycan votes would be cool!

-

ole man you gonna confirm?

-

aye theres some twilight stuff I want to reply to but I dont feel like doing it from mobile as it's mostly oog and deadlines are a month so no rush

[Eddie Cane]

Nice Eddie I am actually at my parents farm dogsitting. I only have three instead of a couple dozen but on the flip side, they are very loud and dumb. I don't remember seeing questions in the meta post but I will look again. maybe will get to it now but obv. that's less important for ~twilight time~ cause if I get nk'd I assume there's nothing you'll be like, wow, I wish hito had answered that question about his meta before he died.

I wish my parents owned a farm

well

they own

ed

a farm that they sold about a year before I was born :babyrage:

this was a friend who's a breeder, has a farm out in the middle of nowhere with a fuck ton of pets. used to breed emus and goats among other things, but now just mainly dogs and cats. she had an awesome 4x4 though!

words n stuff"

I basically took from this that my meta was spot-on as far as surface level meta reads go, looks pretty much like what I expected. I wish I'd asked you if any of the people pushing you should know this about your game, but ah well.

Tammy (still don't think Tammy is scum but it's also true KMD wagon was more or less entirely birthed by Tammy not wanting Lycan).

There you go. I was a little weirded out that you left me off the first one. I'm quite a bit surprised at how fast that wagon went. I was expecting to still have to make a decision between Axel and Lycan today - Axel I did not want, and yeah Lycan I was getting cold feet on.

thoughts on Lycan now?

Yeah absolutely wagoning the fuck out of Hito D2. He's REALLY acting like informed minority around the KMD lynch here.

Not really that haven't been posted. Kind of could see one scum in Axel/Rofl, but not for Rofls weird tunnel. It's actually more related to their stances on me. Axel's push felt fake because he called me scum for being busy, claimed he wasn't doing that, then deliberately ignores my reply. Rofl on the other hand seemed too sure I was town.

Ginngie and lycan are my strongest scum reads. I kind of think Tammy is town (oh I should post my meta thing even though I didn't finish it) now. Eddie is still town. Magna, meh, could see either way. Firebringer maybe town? Hito town. Insanity could be scum but I don't see any reason to lean that way. Pine town. Claims will sort themselves out.

Now I feel bad
Noted. Would have liked a Pine explanation.

I didn't bother doing it for TM besides White Flag into where RVS "ended" for me because I caught CES. In the tiebreaker it was the opposite of what you're saying. I pegged the team because Leonshade had two interactions with his partner. One suggesting them as scum and then using mental gymnastics to sell them as town to GIF for the same reasons they were scummy. It was GIF that I said might have been scum just based on density alone (he interacted with everyone and never took his foot off the pedal).

That is what I was saying though?

I'm establishing that everything I was bringing up was still relevant to the current game state.

Okay.

Then why did you vote me LMFAO. I literally established that Hito was fair game.

This was very well broadcasted.

[Eddie Cane]

squicked

[Eddie Cane]

So I am not prophetic! I had a dream last night that Eddie Cane died last night, but only because he was one of two of us who passed the basic math skills exam. Not because the rest of us didn't know math, because we all got our math questions correct, but we didn't follow the directions properly. Only Eddie and one other person did, I don't know who, but mafia killed Eddie because he follows directions...and knows math apparently.

I am probably the least educated player here, and I failed grade 10 math.

That was Marble being marble. You probably found CES scum for the wrong reasons too if you think he voted marble because he was scum baited by marble being egotistical. CES would push and vote marble at the beginning of a game regardless of alignment because that's their history together. (I'm not trying to take away you catching scum there because you were right, but you are missing history.)

Call it gut if you want. Lycan caught CES quick and our entire team agreed he was lock scum by like page 40. It was not cftww. /irrelevant sidenote.

Axel still reads fine to me.

ye

cooldog do more than his mostly superficial bullshit reading

ye

pine do more than sideline sniping

ye

EDDIE - Can you talk about why Lycan is scum?

don't ask me to do things I was gonna do <3
(I'm getting there)

Firebringer - I know you can be more involved than you have been this game. Please get in here and do something if you're town.

Yeah I could be, so what.
I am sitting here puzzled that hito was killed.

Like scum decided to just kill mislynch bait for no reason

My reads are probably mostly trash here.
I am going to rethink this game on weekend, work sucks with month end

Hito is not mislynch bait, and I'm pretty sure no player aside you (and Pine if he's town which is ~questionable~ at best) think that. Lol.

Also can everyone stop it with their dumb crumbing
I know what your crumbing and you might as well just come out with it
I don’t even hunt for crumbs or claims but you are both obvious @ tammy and @eddie cane

Also I should probably say I forgot to submit an action for this game even though I had an insane amount of time to do so, my bad

I *usually* don't crumb in the typical sense.

Am I the only person who wasn't shocked at the Hito kill?
Like in my list of, if town these people are likely dying tonight, Hito was one of the most likely.

ye

How would you rank your current scum reads, Insanity?

What happened to our promised workhorsing guy?

[Eddie Cane]

Ginngie and lycan are my strongest scum reads

And I could do Ginngie but nobody else seems to want to so this is fine for today.

KMD flipped town? pressure Lycan! at the very least folks who don't want to go after him should give positive reasons from his play and not this wagon flow "well he was the only one that had some sticky votes early, so must be town". Cause those sticky votes weren't that sticky and also being super frank a lot of that is probably a factor of me being the only person even trying to mobilize a push.

Call it post-mortem BoP if you want, I always factor in dead people's reads and especially so when they're people I'm friends with and respect (KMD) and/or when they're notoriously amazing players (Hito).

Fuck you Josh.

Might sound nitpicky, but this rly doesn't feel genuine. I reskimmed and I don't think the escalation to this when all of our interactions on discord have been super positive is realistic. Sounds more like Lycan trying to check town babyrage boxes.

After the very beginning I scum leaned Tywin, but Lycan kind of redeemed the slot. With Lycan redeeming the slot less and Hito dead (a very incriminating kill) I'm very happy lynching there today.

[Eddie Cane]

I just really want a hippopotamus for Christmas

[Eddie Cane]

why is it this damned hard to get a lycan wagon I know I'm not hito but I'm pretty cool I have cherries

[Eddie Cane]

what does your avatar tell you about rofl and ginngie?

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Lycan

we arent playing lynch the shit players or LaL in my last game on site unfortunately. I believe the claim.

[Eddie Cane]

dont quicklynch before I'm off work please

[Eddie Cane]

lost post yay

tldr tune in tomorrow for an exciting round of Shit vs Scum!

[Eddie Cane]

Ugh. I love mechanics, but calling this mechanics is like calling dice strategic.

so Eddie - What do you think? Is he really the cop?

I was pretty sure Lycan was scum before these claims.

Then I was pretty sure Old Man was gambitting town and was gonna do a hard defense, but we got Lycan's claim before I got the chance.

What makes this situation extra fucked? Lycan is, to reference Ginngie, a meticulous player. He's batshit insane (in a good way), but meticulous. If he's scum, and its NOT with Old Man (an unlikely but possible scenario), then that cop claim is so ridiculously suboptimal its unreal. Lycan was a likely lynch today; Old Man bailed him out and was being quicklynched before his main accuser Magna even came online. We are assuming scum!him claimed cop in response to Old Man...

so this means he's:
-confirming old man is a gunsmith,
-making it so old man is very likely not getting lynched today,
-leaving a town PR alive Lycan's team needs to kill,
-leaving himself far more vulnerable today,
-taking old man out of the lynchpool and probably permanently,
-the alternative having been Old Man getting lynched today and probably Lycan tomorrow.

Like. The ridiculous suboptimal play is hard for me to grasp. I've lost to thinking scum can't be as stupid as they are (sorry Lycan <3), meh.

The problem here is how wildly unlikely it is for them to both be town. Old Man had a 1/13 chance of targetting Lycan if they're both town, I guess that isn't insanely low but its lower than I want to accept.

Lycan on the other hand would have had to be that okay with his lynch yesterday as a PR, or he has balls of steel. He didn't even vote his counterwagons (Axel and if you count it KMD).

Old Man on the other hand fakeclaimed as town UNNECCESSARILY. Like.

He was not even l-2. He had, like, 2 or 3 votes IIRC. Maybe 4 or 5. And he "fakeclaimed" D2 IC to ensure a Gunsmith result.

Leaving my vote on Lycan. Whoever's town here should probably quit mafia. I joined this game to see some quality old players and not the garbage people around nowadays, off to a great start.

#ShitorScum - when #DumborScum isn't passionate enough (tm)

[Eddie Cane]

(1) Old Man Town/Lycan Scum
(2) Old Man Scum/Lycan Town
(3) Both Town
(4) Both Scum

1 means Lycan decided to try a super weird and bad fake claim with an awful risk:reward skew rather than accept his death with a town PR mislynch (and day 3 is the most common Bus Day anyways)
2 means Old Man is very probably a scum!rolecop or a scum!gunsmith, real claimed odd night X, and 1/11 times this is a reasonable scenario.
3 is the same as above, he's a real gunsmith, and 1/13 times this is a reasonable scenario.
4 means they felt the need to do some desperate gambit. Yknow, Hito kill does work w this as he was hard pushing both IIRC (OM before the claim). However, this is a really fucking balls to the walls risky gambit (one town Gunsmith or Cop wrecks the whole thing, even other town invests like Neo). Only works if they think they can't win without going crazy, basically limiting the third to someone who they conceive as a likely lynch.

the common theme between all 4: whatever the truth is and with the exception of 4 sometimes, there's some ridiculously suboptimal play from somebody.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm mostly just like where is the scum outside of those two?

This is a big thing for me too. There's a lot of townie people. If they're both town, there really isn't much room for a scum team.

I like this post though.

you like it twice?

Really, did you guys actually think that he would roll over and claim scum?

I thought he'd deny having a gun and let the "gunsmith" get mislynched if he was scum, tbh. Lol.

Hey Ginngie, congrats, if Old Man is town you're no longer the person in this game with the dumbest gambit!

Why on earth would Korts give town a Gunsmith then give someone else a Cop? Isn't it redundant? Does nobody realize that not only did Lycanfire coincidentally claim the one thing that would give him an out upon being guiltied, but he is also technically counter-claiming me? If anything, my Gunsmith was probably meant to return a red herring on CoolDog's Paranoid Gun Owner's claim, not on a redundant cop on my top scumread. Please.

If Lycan's scum its really not for this, lol. Even/odd invests are not weird, especially if one can get a false result on the other.

You may be wondering why I have been checking into the game much more infrequently than at game start. Well, I am beginning to lose interest in this game, especially when everyone couldn't even consolidate on a lynch with a whopping ONE MONTH deadline, and proceeded to generate a flashwagon on town instead of lynching obvious scum while I was away. It certainly dampens the spirit.

The month of lurking is annoying. Don't act superior with your quality play so far though.




k burd now, gonna go to work. this has been

fun

[Eddie Cane]

i am stunned people seemingly don't understand how likely it is lycan's scum here

^a good post

no, and

Old man, you realize not only mechanically Lycan town makes sense

even more no

[Eddie Cane]

I can’t be a pessimist because I am alive. The question you gotta ask yourself –the question the white population has to ask itself—is why was it necessary to have scum in the first place. Because I’m not scum, I’m a man. But if you think I’m scum, it means you need it. And you gotta find out why. The future of the country depends on that.

Josh is having to be dragged to game solve mountain when he's a player that needs reasons to rope people.

I don't know what any of this means.

This 1/13/1/11 math nonsense isn't real. If OM thought I was scum or a PR, then almost every time I would be investigated.

...and then he would have a 1/13 chance of finding the town cop if he was town and a 1/11 chance if he was scum. what is nonsense here?

Eddie’s speculation at 956 sets my teeth on edge as inside knowledge leaking inadvertently.

more like 4:11 is ridiculously scumsided and it wouldn't pass in a normal

Eddie-I can never read Eddie.

you have not said this in any game we've played, by the way.

I think the major thing is, is that if both scum here, they have to come up with clears.

I ran into this exact problem myself as scum when I was playing mastina's worst mafia game ever.

It's a losing long run strategy and it gets really hard to explain why investigative live forever

speaking of half-decent scum, this is not a problem for half decent scum. the bigger issues is invests living, but by that point its lategame and faking guilties is a thing and blah blah git gud

[Eddie Cane]

You don't get it. Reads don't matter.

The odds of Lycan drawing Cop is 1/12. 1 of those options is dead.

So yes, in the world where Lycan slot drew Cop it is not a math question and was rather likely he would be Gunsmithed. Correct. That world is only the world 1/11 times, assuming town has a Cop. It is not anything to do with reads.

[Eddie Cane]

It’s axtually 1 in however many fucking many roles there possibly is

You seriously don’t account for an variables except for how many players there are

Stop trying to math things, you’ll never be >random when you do that

how many roles that get

a positive result from gunsmith

there are two that are normal whitelisted, and with 1 kill n1 it's unlikely we have a vig. the other roles are irrelevant. technically, pgo has a gun so you're right it's actually 1/10 if cooldogs town.

I'm always >random

what about the fact lycans just xcum regardless? if you dont like math surely you like hito and KMD having him as their strongest SR.


pine, what caused you to realize I'm an unreadable enigma? we only have two completed games and you were xcum in 1 no?

[Eddie Cane]

if you ignore probabilities, dead players reads are still a relevant thing. they're a conf!town source telling you something. they are competent enough that we can't just brush it off.

vengeful is whitelisted? huh. i thought it was gray.

PGO and Gunsmith are irrelevant, and JOAT would need a shot of one of the above so also irrelevant.

fine, dismiss my setup spec, but i'm damn accurate and consistent.

pine, you should know all of the above are true of my play from last game AND if wisdom has listened to it town would've won or at least got to 1 scum lylo with muffin

pedit: exactly why its irrelevant rofl!

[Eddie Cane]

You keep calling me scum and even backtrack on that. If all you want to do is call me scum, I'm questioning that in itself.

So why don't you quote where I've called you scum and where I've backtracked?

[Eddie Cane]

I'm sorry you don't understand mechanics Magna.

[Eddie Cane]

so team, are we gonna spend another month prod dodging and then scramble for s lynch a day before deadline?

[Eddie Cane]

let me say this one more time

IF old man is scum, which I doubt, lycan is probably town.

Otherwise, Lycan is 3 times as likely to be scum as he is Cop. Additionally, the God tier dead player and the other good dead player both had him as top sr. Additionally, his slot is just fucking scummy. Normally, the odds are more like 3 times as likely to be town not factoring in reads.

VOTE: lycan

tammy I need you

[Eddie Cane]

I was voting him before his claim and his claim makes him scummier, delaying it a day means no partner hunting.

If we arent doing lycan, we can go from there. I'll probably end up sheeping Tammy.

[Eddie Cane]

no it doesnt... sigh. I'm working a 14 hour day cause I work for elections ontario and its election day, but I'll write it out in detail

[Eddie Cane]

- Lacks spirited push.

I rarely hard push in my more serious games, but you know this because none of my posting towards Mulch even was hard pushing as Ginngie can testify to, I pushed him but passive aggressively because I didn't want to do a huge argument until he forced my hand.

The closest he was to his town meta

And with our 0 games together and you not reading much of the TM games you weren't in, you know my "town meta" how?

his vote on kmd and meta dive on Hito.

Although idk about KMD but I've definitely meta'd as scum before, though generally with less effort than that (I tend to just brush people off as town meta rather than actually putting points).

Everything is supplementary evidence to Josh (Hito being killed, OM's claim, mathematics).

Speaking of my town meta,

Hito being killed

only implicates me if

you

are scum, so if I were the kind of person who believed in bonafide scumslips thats a thing,

OM's claim

is supplementary to me being scum how? OM townreads me and you aren't even calling him scum, there's no connection,

mathematics

makes me scum how? if you mean my math argument for you being scum, that's definitely more in my town meta that you have never experienced and you are damn lucky I'm playing with a bunch of chucklefucks who are giving you a by because they don't understand setup spec (I'll get to that).

He's beating the same low-information drum that isn't telling what motive he has wrt to OM's align.

calling you scum is a low information drum? the motive part is just outright nonsense lmao

It's equally likely that this was a planned exercise or that was a coincidence. Yes, I did the meth.

and to sum up your points: nothing. this says nothing.



why do you have "real" points for why the others are scum and for me you just babble on about nonsense? at least for Pine and Moi you have points with debatable quality.

[Eddie Cane]

Let me go over this one more time.

We went into night with 14 players.

AKA, 11 town and 3 scum very probably, 10 town and 4 scum if you're Magna.



If Old Man is town, this means from his perspective there were 13 other players.

Assuming there is a town cop, for Lycan to be the town Cop, this is a 1 in 12 chance (he isn't targeting the PGO claim), or roughly 8.3%. No math on the odds Old Man would target Lycan because that wasn't random, it was a 7.7% chance of Lycan BEING the town cop.

Yes, if there is a Gunsmith, it is moderately likely there is either (or both) a town false positive or a scum false negative (doctor / traitor - the latter being the scenario of 11:4 that is possible). Regardless, above is still true.

Otherwise, the odds of him targeting scum are 3:12 are about 25%. 3 times the above. If there is a mafia doc, 2 times, though if we had a town cop a mafia doc would be less likely anyways.

Both of those are relatively small numbers, but one of them

has

to be true, because Lycan is claiming having a gun. So, to scale it up, 75% of the time Lycan is scum and 25% he's town. There is no opinion here, no luck.


Now, the other side of the coin is scum!OldMan. In this world, Lycan is probably town. However, I believe Old Man is town strongly from play and I've held that belief since early day 1, and his attitude and tone around the gambit seem genuine. If you are lynching outside the pair you're acknowledging this is true for you too so the above is solid.



75% likely to be scum is WAY better than normal: from a pure objective, unbiased by reads standpoint the average player from a town POV rn is 75% likely to be TOWN, the complete opposite. Its a huge difference. It isn't immediately obvious how much of a difference this makes in terms of sorting.

You don't like Math? Well, Mathblade isn't the most popular player, but Hito certainly is boasting one of arguably the best towngames of all time. He was damn sure Lycan was scum and pushed it almost the entire day. KMD has a decade too and he had him as scum. Lycan's had garbage stances on me and others for the game. I'm not biased by my math, as

I was pushing Lycan before the goddamn claims

I've been pushing this since day start. Stop fucking brushing me off and vote Lycan or tell me why he's town.

[Eddie Cane]

MoI, saying Insanity isn't lynchabity is horse shit. Doesn't make them town here necessarily but in general their descriptor as a player is lurky lynchbait with good reads. I don't think your points are bad, but be careful as you're treading on the line of pushing playstyle. I have not played with insanity so I'm not a good person to ask - this is ffery meta.

1157 is hilarious right after Magna's post. Hito had points too.

Lycan / Pine / Insanity

too easy probably, but meh. insanity is only there slotting in non-dived associations from pine and lycan i recall. in a vacuum and without rereading, still slight town on the slot though less so than others and PoE scumpool.



and I'm sorry for posturing more but seriously I want to siteflake and I don't want to gameflake and 1 month deadlines are honestly just excessive and boring. please lets not do a repeat of last day phase. town win rates do not go up when you use more time, but apathy flakes do!

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie's "math" is totally bogus. Its core assumption is flawed. It fails to account for the non-randomness of game design.

It doesn't fail to account for shit. It assumes there's a fucking cop in the game.

I think Lycan's partners are within this pool: {Ginggie, Pine, roflcopter, MagnaofIllusion}

pre close to where I'm at.

His role MAKES SENSE and BALANCES YOURS.

this is NOT HOW successful SETUP SPEC WORKS.

I don't stick my neck out for scumbuddy Lycan like this. He'd be on his own.

Why not? If you're scum with Lycan here, the defense is going remarkably well.

correct.

Don't get high and mighty with "scum by play." You had the scummiest D1 in this game, and were only saved from the rope by a bogus claim.

no, and idk how you can even genuinely push this angle when you're calling Old Man town?

@Eddie, sorry, but I'm still not following your maths argument. Isn't the question more to do with 'how likely is it that this setup has an odd-night gunsmith and an even-night copy'? Which is answered more to do with setup speculation and considering the two players, rather the maths itself.

you want setup spec? I'm fuckin great at that, way better than math.

ctrl + F odd night has 60 games in normal archives. for simplistic purposes, I'll stick here.
Of those (this is manual sorry if there's any errors)
games with an even counterpart: 15
above games with both roles town: 11
total number of games: 55ish

sidenote: lol ya'll used to love your odd/even vigs

Now, this is a little skewed; I did not filter out the games where scum had odd (and even in some cases) roles, and that was about 5ish, lets call it 10 to be super generous since I am working from memory,

45 games
Of those 45 that had odd roles aligned with town, 15 had even roles.
Of those 15, 11 were both held by town.

So roughly 1/3rd of the time, there was indeed an odd/even split. A bit more than 2/3rds of those had both roles split as town.

I will say, most of the time both were town they seemed to be vigs and stuff, but invests were a few of them.

You want my opinion? very well could be a fake claim, its equally likely either he

or a teammate

has an even role, probably not cop but its possible, and he turned that into his claim.

I'm aware he could be town, but don't try and tell me setup spec makes him fucking town I hate people who setup spec and don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[Eddie Cane]

You seemed a bit reluctant to scumread Lycan towards the end of Day 1. 771 and 783, for example. What changed your mind overnight so that you now believe Lycanfire is scum (even before the claims?)

I was reluctant in that his play seems more like his town game, outweighing my minor suspicions on Tywin, and I had bigger fish to fry. I voted him over Axel because Axel was a lot townier, but I wasn't really scumreading his slot. Hito dying and being town, how Lycan's interacting with me, KMD dying and being town, and this wasn't an initial reason but now his claim and his "scumread" (he hasn't even called it that ?) on me are also things. Isolated post wise, his posts do feel more like his town game but I haven't experienced his scum game so its automatically weighted lower for me.

Magna's 1150 about me feels like retrospectively finding problems with my posts in order to justify his read.

that's generally the case with all cases from either alignment. casing is confbiased without explicitly checking for it.

Ok so I'm sick and tired of seeing stupid math attempts to say Lycan is scum. If you want to say his play is scummy for many other reasons (like, for example, that he was fixated on attacking people who doubted the fake-IC claim as scummy which is more likely to come from scum who is not OldMan's partner and thus knows he's Town) go for it ... that is going to more likely convince people.

and the fact he's trying to associate himself with Old Man, ya.

Anyway - back to the maths - none of you trying to use them apparently have ever taken any classes on statistics.

I failed grade 10 math and haven't taken math since then, so 4 years but my math is based in setup spec, mafia terms, and its not complicated. I asked you to prove me wrong in case I was missing soemthing, I'm aware I'm not exactly a mathematician.

1/15 (Odds he drew any one scum role) times 3/13 (odds Oldman investigated a scum player) times 3 (number of trees that lead to this result) = 4.62%

...what? its just 3 times as likely, you having a lower number doesn't make sense.

Yeah regardless of other cases, 1184 was a pure scum post. Endorsing bad math, buddying, bad setup spec, mudslinging. Plus she's really thirsty for an investigative to get lynched.

I would like her to respond to Magna's case because despite confbias it isn't a bad post.

Why? I feel like a complete mess with reads this game and hipshot at town yesterday.

Cause if Lycan is town (or scum and we don't lynch him) I have no fucking clue where to go and you're the highest TR I have as well as someone with good reads (I'm not just blindly sheeping Creature).

Remember when I said yesterday sheeping has its place?



I would really like you to comment on LYcan stuff though, I've asked a bunch of times I believe.

As far as the claims go, realistically they can exist and both be town. It is a game design that's pretty elegant as rofl said; they would theoretically work in tandem with one of them being able to catch what the other wouldn't. If we had a serial killer, for instance, one would get negative while the other might get positive - though with only one nightkill the chances of that are low but definitely not impossible. Likewise with a godfather. So, in the realm of is it possible, could they both be town? Yes, that's possible based on the claims. I don't really care about whether or not it could be that much of a coincidence because I've seen coincidences along this line happen, hell been part of them before.

Its possible, but you were scumreading Lycan yesterday too so even reading him in isolation do you no longer have him as scum?

People have also been mentioning team size. Now three scum in a 15 player game would seem a little low, especially with the two investigatives, and it's entirely possible it could be four - though that's a bit high. IF cooldog is actually a town pgo, I guess that could be a negative town utility role that would account for just having three scum - but without having a scum flip and seeing a role or goon there's probably not much point in debating the amount of scum we could be looking for. But one thing I was thinking of in regards to the number is the possibility of a traitor.

I'll put this to bed later.

And here I would like fire bringer's replacement to just out whatever it is he has that makes him not believe the claims. He's already hinted he has a role by saying that he forgot to submit an action last night, so he can talk about why he disbelieves it without outing his actual role. I mean he could be trying to softclaim because he's scum, or because he's fire bringer and that's fun, or because he's trying to pull a spiffeh and draw the night kill, but at this point I care less about pretending that fire bringer's "soft" doesn't exist than having some kind of disclosure if it helps make sense of the claims on the table.

Fire's fakeclaimed and/or fake softed roles in every game I've played with him, including team mafia. Don't get your hopes up.

I don't understand this post. Mostly the wording.

translation: policy voting OM

I'm confused. I read that post as you pretty much laying out why Lycan wouldn't be claiming the way he was as scum, but then you leave your vote on him. Granted my mind is a bit frazzled athlete moment from stuff I'm buried under, so maybe I'm misunderstanding, so halp?

halp?

These posts were before his garbage and unrealistic push on me. Lycan was my best bet for scum before the claims. The claims did not help. He has a 0% win rate as scum and there's no day chat so something wildly suboptimal is not out of his scumrange, though it was a point towards town him. Like I said, it is more likely he would claim the way he did if his partners are in bad positions, makes it less suboptimal (ie can't afford to get lynched tomorrow after the hypothetical OM town flip that would have happened).

I don't. I have none. His play makes absolutely no sense to me and neither does Old Man. I'm quite frankly at the point where I want to throw my hands in the air and say lynch them both I don't care!

and now you get it.

Since some people are talking about it, my assumption with 15 people would be 4 scum, which generally seems too high, but can be sort of accounted for with power roles. I assume this because 3 seems more low in the other direction, unless there were some other factor/force in the game which there isn't any evidence for yet.

another dumbo /sigh

{sky, gaiden, kiana, Dunn, text generator, Brian, lexa, dle, hebi, human}
this contains all

3

scum

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74588

15 players has 3 scum almost always. I say almost to be generous, but it has been every time I've seen it. 11:4 is crazy scumsided. If it was 11:4, I think that pretty much guarantees a traitor (fits w Gunsmith fwiw pointing to OM!town if thats the case) because 4 full mafia wouldn't be close to balanceable. 11:1:3 is more possible, but for purposes of setup spec SK is pretty much town. Very little changes otherwise. IDK why this is new to ya'll.

Eddie: I'm gonna have to side with everyone else on the math thing. I get what you're trying to say. But like others have pointed out you're looking at this without considering mechanics.

I consider mechanics, I love mechanics. See above

(1) his play is scummy as hell

yep

I'd rather wait it out another day & see if we get more information from this shitshow than risk lynching what could be a legit & powerful town role. Tell me why this isn't a good idea.

I'm okay with this on principle I guess as its technically ~optimal play~, but I don't know where I want to lynch today if it isn't Lycan.

I could be down to lynch CoolDog too

despite the followup he does need to be lynched before lylo so I guess (?) if we want to delay Lycan a day it works. his claim was townie, he's done 0 since so shrug.

[Eddie Cane]

the lycan wagon was pretty dead at the point I switched anyways iirc

look over my insanity mentions when you iso me Tammy, I believe I've directly commented on what you're talking about

[Eddie Cane]

Tammy now has the third most posts in the game, and it's really second after myself because Pines posta have very little.

Just complaining and buddying Tammy, not going anywhere with this

[Eddie Cane]

Without the knowledge she is lynchbaity and etc, her play is scummy. To cite Creature again, my first game with him I didnt know his playstyle and heavily scumread him even though he was obv town in retrospect. It was more to say okay,her posting style and lack of frequency is null, let's focus on what shes doing which is genuinely sorting me.

[Eddie Cane]

.........

I think I was wrong to have a higher expectation of this game than normal new York games.

[Eddie Cane]

both 10v3

and 11v4 allows the same amount of mislynches

3*2=6 for half
4*2=8 for half


15-2-2-2=5v4=LyLo
13-2-2-2=4v3=LyLo

So tbh, it may seem low but it's actually dead even

...

do you not understand you're proving my point? seriously?

Dude, I've been playing a long time. We used to have these things called "mini" games with 12 or less people. Maybe those are still a thing? And what I can tell you, is that in 12 player games that I have played, in my experience, there have almost always been 3 scum.

This game has 15 players. Therefore, 3 scum seems a tad low to me. I'm not saying it can't be the case. Just that it seems low. On the other hand, we're kind of in this middle/grey area because normally you don't go up to 4 scum until you hit 16 player size. So, we're less than that, but more than 12, but we're closer to 16 than to 12.

I do know how to balance a Mafia game.

Minis here are 10:3 or smaller, 13p is the standard size. Also, Tammy says you're from MTGS which I've heard is a solid site, you know Prophylaxis?

[Eddie Cane]

Your math literally proves me right that its scumsided...

10:3 and 11:4 have the same amount of mislynches... and 1 more scum lynch required. 1 more scum influencing everything. is 107:100 balanced? After all, the chances town has to fuck up and get it right remain equivalent.

[Eddie Cane]

tammy, please no.

[Eddie Cane]

prodge

[Eddie Cane]

along with him being active and reasonable and very Town

and along with him being the best or second best player in this game yes

[Eddie Cane]

mm I'm just happy cause the game will be essentially sped up 2 phases

[Eddie Cane]

fires prob town, Tammy's out of her scum range, cooldog needed to be policied before lylo anyways so that ones a bonus and scummish, insanity scummish

I'm probably gonna reread if they end up getting killed cause town or xcum thats a LOT of info but I have nothing to say til then

[Eddie Cane]

wbu?

[Eddie Cane]

linguine mara chiaro

[Eddie Cane]

yum

[Eddie Cane]

anyone wanna sig bet on the next 3 flips

[Eddie Cane]

I'm sticking with Fire and Tammy town, CD scum if theres scum

Axel cant uou use these flips?

[Eddie Cane]

KMD, CooLDog, Firebringer, Pine & Ginngie are the four

[Eddie Cane]

tomorrow we get the cooldog kill and lycan Friday (?), gonna have your scum flip soon enough.

[Eddie Cane]

I asked u a q moi!!

[Eddie Cane]

pgo isnt rwally a pr, doubt that's ai anyways though

[Eddie Cane]

do u think it's good town play to passive aggressively belittle one of 5 people not flaking on a game?

I do think its unwarranted yes!

no, lol. its negative utility exactly like Miller and Ascetic.

explain what makes it ai? I love angleshooting so I'm all ears.

I gave you all the information about the exact same q too, your point?

[Eddie Cane]

Not anymore. The new rules removed the greylist.

this game started before the new normal queue thread was made iirc lmao nah

[Eddie Cane]

OTM is right. PGO is

not

on the Normal whitelist. However, this game was reviewed before the changes to Normal games were pushed out, so they don't apply.

Ginngie is

more

right, the old greylist rule applies. PGO has definitely been approved as a Normal grey role in the past.

Additionally, Large Normals were I believe allowed two greylist roles, while minis were allowed one.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

PE: Damn it MoI.

.oh.

how caught up are you math? at all?

[Eddie Cane]

I had some words for magna but just deleted it, w.e. if you arent going to acknowledge being wrong I'd appreciate you limit how much you address me. I'm bad at ignoring people.

pedit; iso hito thatll give you a good baseline

[Eddie Cane]

hitogoroshi - Killed Night 1 - Vanilla Townie

[Eddie Cane]

day 2 can be baselined in about 5 points

- old man claimed a odd night gunsmith guilty on lycan; pushed by most people
- lycan claimed an even night cop role; old man no longer pushed by most people
- a lot of numbers talk (reminiscent of cops, you'll enjoy it)
- apathy; a third of the slots repping out, most of the rest prodging

4. not a bad guess.

[Eddie Cane]

Is this a prevailing thought? Does anyone agree lycan scum? Can someone summarize the Lucan case?

not really, I've been pushing lycan today but his wagon support is pretty minimal. yesterday he was a major wagon though I didnt scumread him personally. mobile rn tldr is nka, math, disingenuous reactions (small point), predecessor. his play itself is more in his town meta as cited by ginngie who is now voting him, I have no explanation on that front.

[Eddie Cane]

the one in the game I was reading named bork bork...

[Eddie Cane]

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390, Eddie Cane
(4) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine, Kison
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(1) MagnaofIllusion - Lycanfire

not voting:

Tammy, Axelrod, Ginngie

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

2 days.

thisll ve useful too, right before the kmd flashwagon started

#

night

[Eddie Cane]

just remembered

D1, this was said:

As a personal favor, please cut me some slack on the D1 lynch. I've only been skimming, but the bulk of the case against me seems to be activity-based, supplemented by tonal changes and some inconsistency. Frankly, that's all Pinecone.

in viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76071 you were also being pushed hard and were a reasonably likely lynch at the same time. You did not ask for any slack or reference the baby impacting your gameplay whatsoever. This game has been filled with apathy and flaking... as was that one. the difference? I thought about this a ton d1 but ongoing games + I thought you were scum there.

-

anyone who knows Magna, is he one of the players that tends to intentionally play dumb as scum or is he more Jingle-esque in playing "pro-town"?

-

#1358 almost just made me vote Magna despite my town read there. Magna and Math what is your history together? I'd assume you've played more than thaw. Magna, or anyone for that matter, can you cite anything to indicate this is within Tammy's scum range? If not knock of the bullshit.

-

Formally this time: Ginngie what are you thinking WRT Lycan slot? Hard meta defense into vote is odd.

-

I would love to hear what Pine sussers think of the fact he just softed IC/FN in a game that had an IC claim.

[Eddie Cane]

So.

Page 6 and my only question is why Axlerod lives. From those few pages, I see suspicion towards his slot, a light town read from MOI (not sure why) and despite people scum reading him it doesn't look like he was probably wagoned? Based off Eddie being wagoned and KMD somehow getting lynched

maybe dont ask a dumb question along the lines of "why did this person who had some suspicion extremely early in the game not get lynched?", doubly so when skimming the vote counts answers your question.

[Eddie Cane]

I also don't understand why you said this in that spot. What did you have, 2 votes?

This is my thing.

I was never in serious danger of getting lynched in 2006

directly implies you were in danger of being lynched here, but your wagon in that game was bigger than your wagon has ever been here, and first babyclaiming (which in itself I am not calling unreasonable, just the fact you pulled it in one of two congruent games) followed by PR softing after 1 or 2 votes... what? I don't think you ever had a wagon bigger than a couple votes D1 either.

and they were very different circumstances.

and they were very different circumstances.

what was

very

different between the two toxic, apathetic cesspools of subs?

There are half a dozen roles off the top of my head which fit my soft. Stop digging into it, it's not pro-Town.

In a normal game, the only two roles I can recall ever existing that confirm their alignment as town are IC and FN. If you were either of those, there was no benefit softing there because if you got l-1'd you could just conf town yourself (generally still valid in the case of FN). It doesn't make sense for you to be either of those though or you'd be more skeptical of OM's IC claim than you were since you essentially CC it. You're experienced enough to know all of this though.

Besides..."I can prove it" technically doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of my role. Suffice to say there *are* no mechanics to my role.

I really would prefer to just leave it at that. When I claim it all this will make sense.

This is not pro-town. Leave it then, I don't know your role pm. You'll claim at l-1 or l-2 like every other competent player under normal circumstances, if you're town hopefully with less anti-town softing!

Pine and rotflcopter aren’t scum together

How caught up are you now?(I don't think they're scum together either)

Thoughts on Pine are mechanics I am backing off

mechanics are the best though

I don't do vcas and I don't know how to get reads off them.

this is not what I said. skimming votecounts to see Axel was in fact a wagon at several occasions is not the same as VCA.

no one really willing to interact with me other than a welcome feels a little... Don't want to say demotivating but irritating.

this is wack. there is nothing to interact with, you're a not caught up player with a not very involved catchup.

I also think that, if there was an outstanding force that prevented the axle lynch from occurring, it isn't to much to point it out to me and ultimately help me get into a better mindset to the aura of this game

tldr;
rofl: waaah vote axel
some ppl: okay
hito: lycan is still scummier
some other people: indubitably
*dual wagons going into dl*
tammy: hey uh nobody likes either of your lynches lets do kmd instead
hito: waah
rofl: waah
everyone else::lol:
*6 hours later*
KMD - vanilla townie - lynched day 1

[Eddie Cane]

lycans gonna flip tomorrow

[Eddie Cane]

mm

[Eddie Cane]

Magna, or anyone for that matter, can you cite anything to indicate this is within Tammy's scum range? If not knock of the bullshit.

i want real answer from ginngie and answer from pine too

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Pine

[Eddie Cane]

willing to vote Lycan, Pine, Ginngie, Magna rn

[Eddie Cane]

maybe if you 3 weren't actively ignoring me I'd have a different lynch pool!

[Eddie Cane]

cool.

[Eddie Cane]

universal backup: the role exclusive to town

[Eddie Cane]

it was sarcasm mara...


i can't really engage with this game on a serious level when all 3 of the people i'm trying to engage are ignoring me and the wagon i hard pushed stagnated at 2 votes excluding myself with nobody explaining why i was wrong, its really hard to give a shit. we spent a month to get to this point

[Eddie Cane]

No comment.

Already asked because Pine's PoV

This was my questioning FWIW:

all of the following are hypothetical

would you have a universal backup in a game with a town innocent child?

if so, would they be required to be town aligned?

if not, how would the scum!ub interact with the town!ic?

I tried rewording it though, still awaiting a reply

but they're NRG questions ~_~

to rephrase, do you consider a universal backup and a town innocent child in the same setup normal valid?

and to rephrase again, lets say you were modding a game with a scum universal backup and the first PR to die is a town innocent child, how would you resolve that?

[Eddie Cane]

Also, if you're going to post my response in-thread, you might as well post this too.

I do not appreciate you trying to eliminate in-game claims through mod queries. Play the game, not the mod.

the mod won't answer mechanics questions that are standard to normal games? This is me playing the game, a big part of normal games is setup spec because there's a finite amount of possibilities. That's the point of it not being a theme game. But, sure, I'll post that too.

@Axel, UB would not have a gun if they were still UB, but if a UB became a Cop and then was targeted they would have a gun if targetted.

If a PGO dies, yes, UB should be able to become a PGO. PGO's should also have guns.

There needs to be at least 1 vanilla townie, and a maximum of 2 roles greylisted - there's a specific set of whitelisted roles on the wiki, and blacklisted, and up to 2 roles can be on neither list. Past the 1 VT rule, every townie could be a PR and that would be valid.

The point of normals is normalized mechanics, which is why players should know how interactions would work, but some mods rather be difficult (not too uncommon) which isn't a big deal. Just gonna have to confirm who I message out of the current normal listmod (Implosion) vs the one who approved this setup and was the listmod at the time (Nexus iirc) and then get the answer through that.

Pine

, on top of previous questions, now that you've claimed what was it you asked the mod in pregame (1) and did you ask the mod anything regarding an IC after Old Man's claim (2)?

[Eddie Cane]

Frankly until LYLO or the day before you should not be this interested in setup speculation in a non-Open game if you are Town.

No, not really.

Ever going to interact with my prodding on Tammy meta? You can either prove me wrong, which I'm well aware I could be because my experience with Tammy is limited and firsthand is nonexistent, or acknowledge I'm right and stop shading and nitpicking Mathblade who's a very "triggerable" (can't think of the word I'm looking for rn) player as you very well know.


And because I only have 2 more non-reserve posts today and deadlines soon,

there's a remarkably large amount of players in the vague townish/scummish region.

Old Man / OTM - town

-people-

Pine
Otter


those are it for reads with a degree of confidence, but


Though after an ISO, if Pine is town I could sub in Kison there. They are not scum together.

Still believe Fire was more in his town game, but him flaking knocks it down from the lock town rung. Mara town side. To clarify, no read on Mara's play, I've derptunnelled town them twice in in a row now along with scum!them once... I just tunnel Mara.

Day 2. Axel is still townie. Still being pushed by reasons I can't see, never mind agree with. mm. Biggest not town thing is how little he's done after flips with all the h y p e though I guess that was overblown.

CD meh scummish, don't really care about sorting it as its already getting policied sooner or later. Pretty bad stances.

PJ was still a scumfuck, Ginngie is still ignoring me. ur gonna hate me but town LOL

Magna is spewed town by Pine. His play appals me though.

roflolcopter i don't fucking know ? ? ? ? ? ? he's really damn townie on tone but really shit on pushes

guess this puts me at like

{EC, OM, OTM}
~gap.php~
{Mara, Ginngie, Axel}
{Magna}
~gap.php~
{Kison, Rofl}
{Ray}
~gap.php~
{Pine}
~gap.php~
{Otter}

So realistically, there's at least 2 scum in the bottom 5 and once we hit em they'll be assoications etc.

willing to vote Lycan, Pine, Ginngie, Magna rn

if it wasn't clear, this should have had a winky face to indicate humor. just my way of expressing how miserable playing is when people ignore me. this does not reflect my reads. my lynch pool today is {Kison, Rofl, Ray, Pine, Otter} with preference stated. if you want to play "optimally" and not lynch in the PR claims, I would rather do Ray since it needs to get policied eventually anyways than Kison who's town if Pine's scum 99% of the time, but meh. Or, we lynch Otter, let Pine get a result if its a cop and then lynch Pine day 3.

please, fr, not another month long day phase tomorrow.



things I still want responses to:

directly implies you were in danger of being lynched here, but your wagon in that game was bigger than your wagon has ever been here, and first babyclaiming (which in itself I am not calling unreasonable, just the fact you pulled it in one of two congruent games) followed by PR softing after 1 or 2 votes... what? I don't think you ever had a wagon bigger than a couple votes D1 either.

what was very different between the two toxic, apathetic cesspools of subs?

anyone who knows Magna, is he one of the players that tends to intentionally play dumb as scum or is he more Jingle-esque in playing "pro-town"?

(above at everyone)
and a follow up, anyone know if Pine's crumbed as scum before? distinction between real role (scum!ub crumbing ub) and fakeclaim (scum!x crumbing ub with x being any other role lol.) though both are helpful.

Ginngie what are you thinking WRT Lycan slot? Hard meta defense into vote is odd.

[Eddie Cane]

Make up you mind. I really don't have a bunch of patience for passive aggressive bullshit.

Considering I've brought it up 3 maybe 4 times I think my minds made up that I want an answer

you were a solid scum read for Hito

This wasn't even true by EOD though?

his last interactions / acknowledgments of me are farms, talking about his meta, and

Axel also will have flips which he said he can do a lot with in some far back iso post so definitely don't allow this kinda hew-haw tomorrow. also focus effort on the defectors insanity (strange move off Lycan) and Pine (strange move off Axel). I guess technically also Eddie (but his defection was at least more forecasted) and Tammy (still don't think Tammy is scum but it's also true KMD wagon was more or less entirely birthed by Tammy not wanting Lycan).

and

If KMD is town and Lycan is scum, look to Eddie and insanity who basically let me corral them on to Tywin/Lycan is slow motion (again, with those instances I mentioned that looked like "coaching disguised as questioning") but were quick to abort to somewhere else. Similar argument if KMD is town and Axel is scum for Pine. Yeah, if rofl and I are BOTH right then that's too many other buddies.

So I was in his scum pool, but his only scumread on me is Lycan associations for pretty much the .entire. game. So if you think Lycan and I are scum together, great, help me bus him! or point me to one thing in Hito's ISO that puts me as scum without the association. Not to mention he's wrong, I left Lycan /after/ the wagon fell apart, but different discussion.

And while I'm rereading Hito, these are his last reads viewtopic.php?p=10213733#p10213733 lmao

[Eddie Cane]

:/ I don’t think I am better than anyone at mafia especially as town. That doesn’t mean I still don’t believe my read on you.

VOTE: Axel

Let’s do that and discuss Magna tomorrow.

.why.



~

Nexus answered me. Innocent Child is considered a passive role, and UB only inherits active roles, ergo scum!UB and IC could coexist. All I wanted Korts buddy sorry I annoyed you though

More concerned with what Pine thought at the time of the IC claim.

[Eddie Cane]

just got off work you're morons

[Eddie Cane]

axel reads? I'll /in with you on mtgs sometime proph told me to play there anyways

[Eddie Cane]

shoccccker

[Eddie Cane]

its mass claim time before we hammer otter btw

kison - tracker
otter - even cop
om - odd smith
pine - ub
ray - pgo
ginngie -
eddie -
otm -
mara -
rofl -

[Eddie Cane]

well his strategy would be "well I'm getting lynched probably might as well take a guilty and take a townie down or cause a lot of wifom"

except that you're scum

it's also not out of the question this is a distancing gambit becusse they were the two most likely to get lynched today

but that's a problem for after we flip otter

[Eddie Cane]

because it's not no where near lylo?

we are 1 ml before lylo

if otter is town it's the day before lylo

if not half the game has claimed already and half claim sets are only good for scum

also, theres too many invests rn. odd night gunsmith and full tracker is also weird as hell.

[Eddie Cane]

if you weren't going to lynch otter yesterday then you should have policied cooldog doot which is now a 0 content professed lurker, yknow, the slot we need to policy before lylo. I don't want to get ranty so I'm not going to even comment on how stupid axel lynch was.

[Eddie Cane]

hence why you policy them before lylo, lol. its the same as ascetic and miller. this is basic stuff.

[Eddie Cane]

i didnt mean to be condescending, the lol was meant to be a happy tone. its just annoying ive had to rehash this over and over and then magna argued pgo is a GREAT AMAZING role and blah blah

i'm working as a rock climbing instructor and it was 48 celsius with the humidex today i wanna die

[Eddie Cane]

Final Vote Count

(8)

Kmd4390

- Tammy, Pine, Ginngie,

insanity018

, Eddie Cane, RayFrost,

MagnaofIllusion

, Momrangal
(3) LuckyOtter -

hitogoroshi

, Old Man,

Kmd4390

(2)

Axelrod

- roflcopter, Kison
(1)

MagnaofIllusion

- LuckyOtter

not voting:

Axelrod

8 to lynch

Final Vote Count

(7)

Axelrod

-

MagnaofIllusion

, OnTheMark, roflcopter, LuckyOtter, Kison, Ginngie,

Momrangal

(1) Pine - Eddie Cane
(1) LuckyOtter - Old Man
(1) Kison - Pine

not voting:

RayFrost,

Axelrod

7 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Friday the 29th of June.

replaced the names with the current players and bolded flipped people




this is condensed and with my confident reads, bolded still town and underlined scum

Final Vote Count

(8)

Kmd4390

-

OnTheMark

, Pine, Ginngie,

insanity018

,

Eddie Cane

, RayFrost,

MagnaofIllusion

, Momrangal
(3)

LuckyOtter

-

hitogoroshi

,

Old Man

,

Kmd4390

(2)

Axelrod

- roflcopter, Kison
(1)

MagnaofIllusion

-

LuckyOtter

not voting:

Axelrod

Final Vote Count

(7)

Axelrod

-

MagnaofIllusion

,

OnTheMark

, roflcopter,

LuckyOtter

, Kison, Ginngie, Momrangal
(1) Pine -

Eddie Cane

(1)

LuckyOtter

-

Old Man

(1) Kison - Pine

not voting:

RayFrost,

Axelrod

it gels

I don't really do VCA so someone can use that IG

3 scum in {otter, rofl, kison, ginngie, mara, pine, ray}

[Eddie Cane]

the fact that he scum reads me still somehow

except i dont?

[Eddie Cane]

worrying about an SK

it's not worrying about an sk uou mongoloid it's that IF town only had 11 it wouldn't be 4 group dcum

[Eddie Cane]

cause I havent written you off as town completely

look at my reads post lmao

it's not an assumption and I brought up sk d1..... once.....

[Eddie Cane]

sigh

[Eddie Cane]

probably cringing too hard at ya'll to post

[Eddie Cane]

pine, ginngie, otm

where the fuck were you when i was pointing out that 4 scum is not a thing? 0 people backed me up.

However Eddie’s mass claim makes me question that.

If majority are VT as I suspect then Lucky/Kison can’t be a thing and RayFrost is supposed to try to take an NK.
This means Eddie is most certainly scum.

If there are other PRs though Eddie is most certainly scum

Fuck it either way I reach Eddie scum. I need to figure out which line of thought is wrong.

none of this makes any sense, and if you can go find any town game i've played where i didn't start a mass claim lylo-1 i'll paypal u 10$. i'm a mechanical player. i understand this shit and i'm really disappointed you don't know that yet.

I think two things that would point to Eddie scum is worrying about an SK and I’m not gonna lie, the fact that he scum reads me still somehow

once. because nobody was backing me up when i argued with magna and kison and axel and whoever that 4:11 is not a fucking thing. i don't scumread you, you were in my second highest reads tier.

And if you look at Minutes trio

And this game


If that’s not the most transparent difference in style and you can say that honestly

Get reading glasses for fucks sake

whats minutes trio

i have stylistic changes every game, go read a scum game of mine and get back to me.

He never did elaborate about my slot at all

you never did elaborate why you voted the person you just meta defended. i did elaborate on you being scum, and you being town is not being questioned so there's no need to. your move cotton.

Then why am I literally in the scum pile?

that's a poe list you mong (for u since u liked it)

if i haven't written you off as town, you're in there. you particularly are there because you have ridiculously awful lycan assocations and that slot is now very likely scum.

An sk is a silly assumption not enough death.

a hypothetical scenario, or "assumption", i made day 1 before we had deaths.

Why would LuckyOtter do the kill if scum? That doesn’t make sense to me.

this is an easy answer if he's goon, if he flips a scum PR then its just super suboptimal scumplay universally

i think this is mylo

n o b o d y c o m m e n t e d

Meaning since Pine didn’t die which would confirm old man and old man didn’t die which would confirm Otter scum means that you’re likely just bussing here.

1) old mans claim was already

proven

2) Pine dying doesn't confirm anything, they're unrelated roles
3)

The fact Otter isn’t quickhammered means scum is likely already on the wagon.

.no.?

Scum’s plan is innocent Pine because he will be confirmed town when Old Man dies.

you are aware old man isn't ic right? also, the fact UB doesn't inherit IC as per Nexus

Magna’s last post makes a hell of a lot of sense why an Eddie cane scum team kills him because Eddie has to go deep.

except that post states Magna hard TRing me?

Furthermore the fake Pine innocent is what seals the bus.

and this is related how?

An Eddie / Otter world also explains why Ginngie isn’t dead. She is left to sell Otter scum and finally get what she wants so Kison and Eddie say low key hidden.

except that Ginngie is possibly the only player in the game who scumread me going into today?

Eddie pushes mass claim to find the hidden PRs since a majority of claimants are scum and Kison soft defends saying he isn’t for mass claim.

except I don't PR hunt as scum, and any of my scum games show this.

There's so much pointing to Otter as scum besides my resul

its

almost like we should have lynched him yesterday because he was obvious scum

nah.

Did you even read my post? The post is about Rofl's mindset making no sense as town. That also answers your question.

lol

Sorry but replacing into this game it's been a lower priority than my other games, and I'm not feeling super motivated to do much here.

OTM you're going to have to have a backup plan once I flip town so you may as well start thinking of it now.

If anybody cares, I think it's probably Kison+Eddie+Ray. Eddie's been trying to get my slot lynched all game. CoolDog gave me scummy vibes (and Ray has done literally nothing)+ PGO claim creates confusion later. Ray makes the kills ensuring he doesn't get tracked, then Kison claims tracker and helps Eddie finally lynch me, ensuring PGO-claim makes it by another round without getting policy-lynched.

lolz

Pine controls the next day as confirmed town.

mm because he's inheriting the role that ub doesn't inherit that isn't in this game, right?

[Eddie Cane]

oh to clarify Math is still town even with the Magna kill incriminating him, old man and math are never scum itg

why has Mara not been prodded? he hasn't posted in as long as I can remember. same with RF but at least there was that shweet prod dodge.

[Eddie Cane]

mm

vT

[Eddie Cane]

Quit yer bitching, Eddie. I didn't back you up because I didn't take the 4scummers seriously, and my attention span was limited. Now it's clear that they oh look at the doggo.

you didnt take the argument that occured multiple times seriously? smh

[Eddie Cane]

Answer the 50 things I said in my wall. Also, Mara claimed and started it.

[Eddie Cane]

i'll do you one better, what the fuck is mara

[Eddie Cane]

I'll do you one better, why the fuck is mara

i'm ngl I snorted

okay gunsmith is inheritable but you are treating it like he's an IC

if you know he's gunsmith see the rest of the post asking what makes Pine and Old Man conf town

[Eddie Cane]

kison - tracker
otter - even cop
om - odd smith
pine - ub
ray - pgo
mara - rb
eddie - vt
ginngie -
otm -
rofl -

updated

Pine mr setup spec genius, do do OTM Ginngie and Rofl claim?

[Eddie Cane]

actually I don't think OTM and Ginngie need to claim

Also, I'm about good to lock Ginngie as town

I want a Rofl claim before day end.

[Eddie Cane]

3 scum in {otter, rofl, kison, ginngie, mara, pine, ray}

{otter, rofl, kison, mara, pine, ray}

despite the above, no, Mara shouldn't just lurk the day out. Ray catch up is a thing.

[Eddie Cane]

yea

[Eddie Cane]

k