Mini Normal 2102: Mafia à la Mode! (Game Complete)

[benhalkum]

Already three pages? Sweet Jesus. I'm here, not lurking, just wasn't around this weekend.

VOTE: tris cause why not?

[benhalkum]

hi! is that just rvs or is there any more reason?

Random in the sense of day one, but on you cause was happy to see your name in this game after the last one.

[benhalkum]

UNVOTE: Tris

Just want to make sure I did that before I forgot. I only voted tris as a random, don't want to be looped into a bandwagon I'm not behind.

Leaning toward the Morality vote though. The post are coming off as defensive/deflective than something a townie would do.

"Hey look at me, this is totally not how I act when I'm scum!" is very.. very.. scummy to me.

[benhalkum]

I don't like benhalkum either. His first post comes in with an excusing tone that he is not lurking and then later he unvotes his random vote and leans on a Morality vote as he finds his behaviour scummy. So why doesn't he vote Morality then? It's not that he is asking Morality any questions either, so...? Gives me a bad impression so far.

VOTE: benhalkum

Didn't need to vote yet as I wanted him to respond to me or others to weigh in before I voted. I don't like to vote once random is over unless I truly feel they are bad news.

With that being said though, VOTE: Mortality.

1) The false claim so early (As he claimed again, proving it to be false, proves he can't be trusted)
2) The fact he could be either town or scum jail keeper
3) The erratic/defensive/deflective/aggressive behavior
4) Threatening to go AFK or becoming toxic in this game (Technically falls under 3, but a major gut punch for me)
5) Using the throw shit everywhere to see what sticks method
6) Using how he's played other games as an excuse for him not to be scummy

[benhalkum]

Sorry. for the delay. I don't usually play unless at work. had to catch up.

Firstly don't read Morality the same way you would read FL, he's being honest there. They aren't technically the same player.

That said it wasn't the Tris/Mizzy association itself, it's that he threw that in as a hard read to push that bef is town.

Just throwing it out like that when most slots are unsure is an intentional plant. It gets people pairing those two whenever they start to form their own reads, all he needs is for someone to echo it for him.

There is an element of manipulation (including emotional) in order to get ahead. So I agree his response and claim is a front and as town he absolutely would not put town at a disadvantage like that.

The only thing he's trying to accomplish with the claim is to avoid a Lynch today.

It's a bit weird, but guess I have to come around getting a grasp on this persona then.

Alright I think I get your thought here, the fact that he wasn't pushing this narrative since his opening anymore was the point that bothered me as I kind of thought he would try to establish that more forceful in the room as it wasn't really picked on by anyone besides maybe Mizzy. But that might be because I was assuming the FL mindset here.

I agree with the last point but at the same time that's what makes me wonder. Neither does such a executed claim might ensure survival nor does it force a counterclaim and it would buy one day at most anyway. It looks so like suboptimal play unless that's what he has been banking on, but by my limited experience that's in any way rather the highway into the dead thread. However I don't see why town!Morality would do this either.

He might get run up but if j don't push the issue townies are going to chicken out because he "might" actually be a jailkeeper. He knows this.

I’ve never claimed jailkeeper

Yes you did. viewtopic.php?p=11283468#p11283468

It’s also page 8. Why do I need to care about having town motivation? I don’t know where scum is, I just have my analysis that they are probably somewhere going at me in some fashion, and then one is probably defending me or going elsewhere. At least.

I don’t need to push for town motivation because I’m not scum. Anything I do is town indicative.

Your craziness to me isn't town indicative, even if you aren't scum (Which I believe you are)

Didn't need to vote yet as I wanted him to respond to me or others to weigh in before I voted. I don't like to vote once random is over unless I truly feel they are bad news.

With that being said though, VOTE: Mortality.

1) The false claim so early (As he claimed again, proving it to be false, proves he can't be trusted)

For me it was your wording that you emphasized it with calling his behaviour very very scummy so I felt your scumread was already strong enough. Of course you backed that now up with adding reasons from his recent posts though. I didn't had the impression you were really waiting for a reaction there as what you pointed out to no one particular was basically already covered by DDL earlier.

What were you thinking about his first claim to begin with? It looked nonsensical to me to begin with so I assumed it was most likely false anyway. Were you buying it or didn't comment on it earlier because you didn't really checked the thread yet when you checked in for the first time?

I always take first few page claims with a grain of salt and tend to believe they are false. Add that with just the craziness of how he's acting, it pushes me to sway that he is not pro town.

5) Using the throw shit everywhere to see what sticks method
6) Using how he's played other games as an excuse for him not to be scummy

I didn't quote #2 but what makes his jailkeeper claim final for you considering he already lied about the bp claim?(but hasn't walked back the miller part).

5) he does this as either alignment, does that affect your read?
6) why wouldn't he use meta to back up his play? Why haven't you challenged any of his self meta? Wouldn't you like to see for yourself if he is being truthful or blowing hot air?

Flip flopping on claims is a big red flag and should be for anyone. That and seriously, am I the only one who sees the insanity in post? lol As for meta, I just don't use that. I think it's a waste of time really, and the reason for that is screaming "look at how I played before" just tells me how self aware they are of how people percieve their playing styles, which makes it SOOO much easier to throw them off.

At the end of the day, the inconsitency, the blatent lies, and now even trying to throw votes on himself are all tactics that never sit well with me from someone who is supposedly town. Whether it be 1 shot BP miller, jailkeeper, or plain regular town (all of which he has claimed so far, waiting to see what's next to be claimed)

I don't see myself budging here.

[benhalkum]

Morality is the 2nd lynch option today because it to me a morality's play is NAI because it just is and lynching there wouldn't give us any info, regardless of alignment.

By 2nd lynch option, I mean more like a Plan B if we can't get another wagon going. So I have no interest in lynching there.

This is what I don't really understand about you. You always bring Morality up as the alternative to tris and asks her in #125 what would make her more town than Morality. And now you say Morality's play so far was nai and it would be a lynch with no useful information (disagree, he is the most active player here and is dominating the thread in either way, there are enough associations imo). So aren't you scumreading Morality to begin with? Then why is no one else the Plan B? Or are you simply seeing him as compromise lynch because he is the wagon with the most votes atm?

That's it basically.

If Morality flips town you can't SR others on the wagon because of his wild play today.

If he flips scum then hooray we get a dead scum on D1 but it won't help us come D2, imo.

This is where I’m at right now.

I'm so sure he's scum, I'd put myself on the chopping block D2 if he didn't flip red (Which he will)

[benhalkum]

yea, thats fair regarding the persona. im gonna catchup as i eat, but if anyone has any burning questions, feel free to ask.

I do actually...

What are you eating?

[benhalkum]

Doesn't mean that I think ben is town, I would like to hear more from him outside of his Morality case.

Not really much more to discuss at this point from me to be honest. I'm just in awe on how people are not seeing Mortality for who they are. However, my reads are below. There's a few just from how they are interacting, and throwing out I feel good about them being town.

Scumread:

Mortaility

Townread:

Mizzytastic, Skitter30, Skellen, Saladman, RCE

No real feeling either way:

Everyone else so far. However, looking at tris and vex a bit more today.

[benhalkum]

@skitter - I don't see the saladman townread, could you explain?

Idk it's one of the ones i have trouble articulating
Nothing he's saying feels scumny to me

This

[benhalkum]

Just checking in. Forgot to v/la before I left work. Will catch up in the morning.

[benhalkum]

I'm still sticking with Pretentious/Mortality. Even after the username swap he's offered nothing to change my mind.

I also find it concerning that m sticking to my guns isn't a clear indicator of my alliance and that I'm coming up as suspecious to as many as I am. Trust me, when I'm scum I don't put all of my effort into on person I know is scum. I try to get rid of any town I can. There's some meta for future games for you.

[benhalkum]

My gut instinct tell me to lynch Pret, my head says no though.

I have difficulties to see why he would have acted in some situations as scum as he did or considering how the gamestate was at some points, but then again I don't see why he would as town either. It's frustrating. While he creates a lot of content I feel he stirs up a lot of stuff that is ultimately pretty coming down with always pointing out that badly why he is town, it's probably just too much for me.

This 100000x

[benhalkum]

at this point I doubt I'm moving my vote unless something drastic happens over(rl)night or it gets to my bedtime tomorrow (3-5 hours before deadline) and it looks necessary to ensure a no-lynch

would be nice to get to some L-1/intents ASAP to give time for claims and moving wagons, though I get the impression I'm one of the more novice players here so I dunno why I'm saying this

Am I just misreading this, or is in the first line you are advocating a no lynch?

[benhalkum]

ebwop: ensure a no lynch doesn't happen

my brain is not co-operating

No worries, ty for clarifying. That would have been something that actually turned my attention voting wise. Up till that, I have had you at town. lol

[benhalkum]

that said I think from the rest of that post it should be pretty obvious it was a mistake - "lets get us to l-1/intent so I can obviously move my vote so a lynch doesn't happen, no one will suspect a thing! "

Was about 8 in the morning. My brain wasn't working either. lol

[benhalkum]

SCUMREAD

Pretentious

UNSURE

Lil Uzi Vert
Almost50
Skellen
DrDoolittle

TOWNREAD

BrightEyedFish
Saladman27
bob3141
RCEnigma
Mizzytastic


Sticking to my guns. VOTE: Pret

[benhalkum]

SCUMREAD

Pretentious

UNSURE

Lil Uzi Vert
Almost50
Skellen
DrDoolittle

TOWNREAD

BrightEyedFish
Saladman27
bob3141
RCEnigma
Mizzytastic


Sticking to my guns. VOTE: Pret

Out of the nulls, who would be the best candidates as Peet's Scum Partners? Also, why do you townread me?

I'd say Lil Uzi Vert or Almost50. Skellen and DDL, to me, have been townish. But not enough for me be 100% comfortable. Same for the first two, but toward the scum.

As for you, while you haven't really given much persay to the game. Looking at your post, they are just innocent. I don't know how to explain it? Like, you're asking the right questions on "why this" and "why that" without forcing an opion to anyone. To me, you just scream green.

Lil Uzi Vert started out with the following:

Honestly I don’t even really care about Day 1 beyond not lynching a potentially strong town player because I find that scum win rates go up when you lynch scum Day 1 - and some players just shouldn't get near LYLO.

Would you care to rephrase this in simple English?

You say you don't want to lynch a string TOWN player on D1, which is fair. Then you say scum win rates go up when we lynch SCUM D1?? SO you want to lynch a townie who's play is weak?? Am I reading this correct?

Yes!

It’s infuriating when people play Day 1 like we should have some big logical cases and brainstorm for 2 weeks - which just kills the momentum of the game because theres no actual good info to use yet. No one has flipped, no night actions have been taken, etc. Day 2 is the best day in the game for town and its not useful to drag out the game on a pointless day and sap energy from a very useful one

This among other reasons makes the Day 1 lynch nothing more than damage control. Perfect win is nice but implausible, so really just agonizing over shit simply makes the game unbearable.

This doesn't seem like a town move to me. Then there are several post of him just naming his list, but nothing behind it. Random vote, followed by a switch to Tris vote that set Tris to L-1, as well as the paranoia around Skitter. All things that to me look shady, but could be a player trying to fell out the game I guess?

Almost50 is a replacement for someone who I felt left as they may have been seeing their scum partner go down (Pret) lol. OK, thats just speculation, but RCEnigma had even pointed out how Vex was scum too. But, ignoring the replaced character Almost 50 come sin basically saying they'd vote most of the players. No explanation why, but took the time to ensure they were not hammer votes. If you took that much time, why not give us an explanation to your initital voting? Especially with that big of a list. (Side thought, am I confusing Vex as being replaced or did he/she also just switch to an alt like Mortality/Pret did? Now I'm lost there. Eitherway that in itself is odd that the one I pin point for scum and one I think MAY be scum do that at the same time.) Same as with Vex, a lot of misdirection in his post. Looking back there's a lot of finger pointing in different areas without actually making accusations. Kind of a buckshot misdirection pattern. Several time sputting Pret in the same vicinity of a scum read while at the same time being like "look somethign shiny over there" so not to have to vote against a potential scum partner but giving enough doubt to make him look like he could be against Pret if Pret did get lynched and flip, to save himself. If any of that makes sense?

Is it migration season already? *Checks calendar* Yep. It's fall and my flock is flying from ddl to tris. I had better join them.

VOTE: tris

Thats extra scummy as well ^

But at the same time he's also said a couple people I'm gut sure are town are also town. Although it could bea tactic, he could also be innocent. So not enough to fully pull the trigger to read either way.

Hopefully any of that made sense.

[benhalkum]

I'm not even explicitly calling bef scum but there is definitely reason to suspect that is the case on your red flip.

Pret will flip red. But I honestly feel BEF is town.

[benhalkum]

I can't tell if Saladman is scum or just awkward town. I kind of want to lean on the latter, eerrh but I dunno.

I've only seen his town game and it's always been awkward town. I don't think I've played with salad and he hasn't been lynched.

Kinda went over this earlier myself. Awkward town is def a better way to put it then my rambling though.

[benhalkum]

Not sure I'm ready to see DDL as town yet, but I do accept the frustration over how Pret plays as genuine.

Saladman, a challenge for you - one sentence about every player. I don't think I scum read you but you are definitely coasting and I wanna hear what you have to say.

A50, Kinda scummy, most of his posts are like mine but he has actual humour.
Ben, He has been coasting but I can understand big gaps because of rl, the thing I don’t really get is that he Townreads me.
Bob, Townlean, he has great analyses of the game and asks great questions.
BEF, Townlean, not much to say except why did you turn me null into scum other than the “scum talkity”?
DDL, The first half of D2 was just “lynch pret, ignore him” but he has improved recently after voting a50. UNVOTE:
LUV, I haven’t actually noticed LUV that much but reading his ISO, Why did you put Tris at L-1
Miz, Fine, except for 982, you said skit’s reaction to hammer was off, yet LUV was the only one who said she was obv town...

FOS: LUV

Pret, I just think he’s lynchbait (am I using it correctly?) for scum to wagon him.
RC, I’m leaning towards master manipulator on this one.
Skellen, She’s town for me, making alot of town plays.

Misc, I think the Tris sudden death lynch was kind of weird, I know I was in the wagon but Idk why it gained so much traction.

Sorry for being late, I worked on this inbetween classes.

I read this post 3 times.

1st read through - Does he townread everyone?
2nd read though - Is he scum with A50?
3rd read through - Both?

Result: ???

To be fair, he doesn't really townread me. But he finds it odd I don't see him really as scummy? Like that... that really stands out to me. I don't like it one bit to be honest. When someone townreads me and I'm town, I don't question it one bit. I mean, why would I? Honestly, no matter where I lay, I only question when someone scumreads me cause I want to know what I'm doing to give that vibe off. So this is a bit jolting and quite honestly I'm thinking about switching my vote now. He just jumped to the top of my list with Pret.

[benhalkum]

im currently reading skellen as town

I cant see all of RCEnigma, benhalkum, DrDoolittle beign scum. Based on the speed of that tris wagon. I would never have voted tris and i wouldnt be suprised if one or two otehr town were the same

So,

Mizzytastic, Almost50, BrightEyedFish, Saladman27, Lil Uzi Vert, Pretentious

contains 1-3 scum but who exactly. Trying to get every lynch i vote for rigth this game. Last game it was 1 wrong 3 right. (well vig got teh 3rd before we could lynch)

Def Pret, possibly Saladman and Almost50.

[benhalkum]

I have no clue who’s scum or not at this point, BUT IM NOT SCUM.

I’m not wrong on Ben being scum and the fact that nearly everyone in this game is just allowing him to coast this hard is ridiculous, if you ask me.

Which is it?

[benhalkum]

im currently reading skellen as town

I cant see all of RCEnigma, benhalkum, DrDoolittle beign scum. Based on the speed of that tris wagon. I would never have voted tris and i wouldnt be suprised if one or two otehr town were the same

So,

Mizzytastic, Almost50, BrightEyedFish, Saladman27, Lil Uzi Vert, Pretentious

contains 1-3 scum but who exactly. Trying to get every lynch i vote for rigth this game. Last game it was 1 wrong 3 right. (well vig got teh 3rd before we could lynch)

Def Pret, possibly Saladman and Almost50.

why do you pair saladman and almost50. What about them makes you think they are prets partners. Or what about them makes you individualy think they are scum.

Almost50: viewtopic.php?p=11313050#p11313050
Saladman: viewtopic.php?p=11316963#p11316963

[benhalkum]

I'm not budging on my Pret vote unless it looks like Saladman is going to be lynched (as I explained yesterday why I feel he is Pret's teammate). But what about the rest of you? We've got 5 not voting, and like 4 1 off's. How is it that almost everyone is starting to form opinions on who's town and who's not, but nobody is voting?

[benhalkum]

We’ll see if Ben puts his money where his mouth is with what he said about Salad earlier

Why do you want me to vote for Salad so bad? I feel he's scum also, WIHT you. my votes already on you as I feel more surely you're scum.

Hmm... interesting. Wasn't expecting the ben vote from Saladman nor that a ben wagon would actually emerge.

If it's turning out to be ben vs A50 then I want to see more pressure on the former.

VOTE: ben

To be clear I have NOT voted on Salad, and I believe THIS quote started a misinformed wagon on me.

Actually fuck that. I am reading through ben's ISO atm and I am getting cold feet.

UNVOTE: ben

@ben:
What was the specific reason that made you move me from your D1 townreads back to your nullreads?

Honestly, I do not remember last week where I was with that. I'm sure you had some post that were off to me. I could go back and look today, but honestly where I am is Pret is scum and Salad is probably scum.

[benhalkum]

All I know is any trackers in the game are going to be pretty upset if I go. Of course when I flip green, maybe then you guys can shut Pret up.

[benhalkum]

Skitters already dead.

Well fuck me then. If he was the only tracker than I'm just vanilla.

[benhalkum]

Skellen was saying salad voted you. Also you probably wanna look at the roles of who has died...

Yea, had to go back. For some reason I was thinking he was something else. Thanks for the clarification though, I was like "Whoa, I only provided why I think Salad may be scum. i never voted!"

[benhalkum]

And ben why woudl any tracker be upset

It's pretty clear without blatantly claiming. Doesn't matter now though is he was the only tracker. I would have only enabled him.

[benhalkum]

Ben what do you think of all that has happened in teh last few days. And of teh leading wagons who woudl you vote for

I'm still trying to weed through it. I did a quick skim, but there's beena LOT of activity. Once again I planned on logging in during the weekend, but the wife had to start a bit of drama on Saturday then I had a show on Sunday.

Honestly, Pret has offered me NOTHING to change my mind on him being scum. I'm still heavily scum leaning Salad but not enough to jump off Pret and on the Salad bandwagon right now as I do not enjoy voting for people I do not feel truly are scum. One of the reasons I never voted Tris other than my day one random.

[benhalkum]

As seen in viewtopic.php?p=11317541#p11317541:

im currently reading skellen as town

I cant see all of RCEnigma, benhalkum, DrDoolittle beign scum. Based on the speed of that tris wagon. I would never have voted tris and i wouldnt be suprised if one or two otehr town were the same

So,

Mizzytastic, Almost50, BrightEyedFish, Saladman27, Lil Uzi Vert, Pretentious

contains 1-3 scum but who exactly. Trying to get every lynch i vote for rigth this game. Last game it was 1 wrong 3 right. (well vig got teh 3rd before we could lynch)

Def Pret, possibly Saladman and Almost50.

Why saladman is from posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=11316963:

Not sure I'm ready to see DDL as town yet, but I do accept the frustration over how Pret plays as genuine.

Saladman, a challenge for you - one sentence about every player. I don't think I scum read you but you are definitely coasting and I wanna hear what you have to say.

A50, Kinda scummy, most of his posts are like mine but he has actual humour.
Ben, He has been coasting but I can understand big gaps because of rl, the thing I don’t really get is that he Townreads me.
Bob, Townlean, he has great analyses of the game and asks great questions.
BEF, Townlean, not much to say except why did you turn me null into scum other than the “scum talkity”?
DDL, The first half of D2 was just “lynch pret, ignore him” but he has improved recently after voting a50. UNVOTE:
LUV, I haven’t actually noticed LUV that much but reading his ISO, Why did you put Tris at L-1
Miz, Fine, except for 982, you said skit’s reaction to hammer was off, yet LUV was the only one who said she was obv town...

FOS: LUV

Pret, I just think he’s lynchbait (am I using it correctly?) for scum to wagon him.
RC, I’m leaning towards master manipulator on this one.
Skellen, She’s town for me, making alot of town plays.

Misc, I think the Tris sudden death lynch was kind of weird, I know I was in the wagon but Idk why it gained so much traction.

Sorry for being late, I worked on this inbetween classes.

I read this post 3 times.

1st read through - Does he townread everyone?
2nd read though - Is he scum with A50?
3rd read through - Both?

Result: ???

To be fair, he doesn't really townread me. But he finds it odd I don't see him really as scummy? Like that... that really stands out to me. I don't like it one bit to be honest. When someone townreads me and I'm town, I don't question it one bit. I mean, why would I? Honestly, no matter where I lay, I only question when someone scumreads me cause I want to know what I'm doing to give that vibe off. So this is a bit jolting and quite honestly I'm thinking about switching my vote now. He just jumped to the top of my list with Pret.

Why Almost50 is from viewtopic.php?p=11313050#p11313050:

SCUMREAD

Pretentious

UNSURE

Lil Uzi Vert
Almost50
Skellen
DrDoolittle

TOWNREAD

BrightEyedFish
Saladman27
bob3141
RCEnigma
Mizzytastic


Sticking to my guns. VOTE: Pret

Out of the nulls, who would be the best candidates as Peet's Scum Partners? Also, why do you townread me?

I'd say Lil Uzi Vert or Almost50. Skellen and DDL, to me, have been townish. But not enough for me be 100% comfortable. Same for the first two, but toward the scum.

As for you, while you haven't really given much persay to the game. Looking at your post, they are just innocent. I don't know how to explain it? Like, you're asking the right questions on "why this" and "why that" without forcing an opion to anyone. To me, you just scream green.

Lil Uzi Vert started out with the following:

Honestly I don’t even really care about Day 1 beyond not lynching a potentially strong town player because I find that scum win rates go up when you lynch scum Day 1 - and some players just shouldn't get near LYLO.

Would you care to rephrase this in simple English?

You say you don't want to lynch a string TOWN player on D1, which is fair. Then you say scum win rates go up when we lynch SCUM D1?? SO you want to lynch a townie who's play is weak?? Am I reading this correct?

Yes!

It’s infuriating when people play Day 1 like we should have some big logical cases and brainstorm for 2 weeks - which just kills the momentum of the game because theres no actual good info to use yet. No one has flipped, no night actions have been taken, etc. Day 2 is the best day in the game for town and its not useful to drag out the game on a pointless day and sap energy from a very useful one

This among other reasons makes the Day 1 lynch nothing more than damage control. Perfect win is nice but implausible, so really just agonizing over shit simply makes the game unbearable.

This doesn't seem like a town move to me. Then there are several post of him just naming his list, but nothing behind it. Random vote, followed by a switch to Tris vote that set Tris to L-1, as well as the paranoia around Skitter. All things that to me look shady, but could be a player trying to fell out the game I guess?

Almost50 is a replacement for someone who I felt left as they may have been seeing their scum partner go down (Pret) lol. OK, thats just speculation, but RCEnigma had even pointed out how Vex was scum too. But, ignoring the replaced character Almost 50 come sin basically saying they'd vote most of the players. No explanation why, but took the time to ensure they were not hammer votes. If you took that much time, why not give us an explanation to your initital voting? Especially with that big of a list. (Side thought, am I confusing Vex as being replaced or did he/she also just switch to an alt like Mortality/Pret did? Now I'm lost there. Eitherway that in itself is odd that the one I pin point for scum and one I think MAY be scum do that at the same time.) Same as with Vex, a lot of misdirection in his post. Looking back there's a lot of finger pointing in different areas without actually making accusations. Kind of a buckshot misdirection pattern. Several time sputting Pret in the same vicinity of a scum read while at the same time being like "look somethign shiny over there" so not to have to vote against a potential scum partner but giving enough doubt to make him look like he could be against Pret if Pret did get lynched and flip, to save himself. If any of that makes sense?

Is it migration season already? *Checks calendar* Yep. It's fall and my flock is flying from ddl to tris. I had better join them.

VOTE: tris

Thats extra scummy as well ^

But at the same time he's also said a couple people I'm gut sure are town are also town. Although it could bea tactic, he could also be innocent. So not enough to fully pull the trigger to read either way.

Hopefully any of that made sense.

[benhalkum]

^ That was at Bob's ask of who I think are with pret.

[benhalkum]

^ That was at Bob's ask of who I think are with pret.

ben you didnt do as i asked. You just quoted your old posts.

Do taht again and i will assuem you are just scum trying to avoid beign questioned.

Because that

LITTERALLY HAS YOUR ANSWERS

. I have

NOT CHANGED MY OPINION

since then. You can assume what you want, but I now assume you're just stupid.

Agaisn ben if you had to vote for one of teh leading wagons who woudl it be. And cast that vote

Already have.

I HAVE VOTED PRET AND WILL CONTINUE TO VOTE PRET

unless someone goes from possible scum to I honestly feel they are scum. I don't waste votes like it seems a lot of you do.

or atleast formaly say intent

I intend to keep my vote on Pret unless someone else proves to me they are scum. Saladman is the closest with A50 kinda in the back of my three scum choices. But the second two I am not comfortable enough to actually vote them. My vote is on

THE PERSON I BELIEVE IS SCUM

.

----

Seriously, you're condescending post just irritated me for the first time in this game. And that is saying something seeing how I've had a lot of people post typically irritating things toward me. Amazingly I still don't think you're scum. Just dense.

[benhalkum]

And I say it like that, because he seemed to not know about Skitter, which I think is scum playing dumb.

Trust me, there's never any playing involved in the case of me being dumb. Also, happy Monday Pret.

[benhalkum]

With a mindset like Bob has, trying to force someone to vote on a wagon just because it has more votes then what someone truly feels is the RIGHT vote, that's how mislynches like tris happen.

[benhalkum]

Meant to say the three other possible wagons.

The difference is while I feel they MAY be scum with you, my feeling of you being scum is absolute.

[benhalkum]

If you don't vote them and pret isn't a realistic lynch (Which unless more people move back there, he's not) it just makes it harder to get a wagon through cos it's like we have one less vote relative to the number of players. That is why compromises have to be a thing.

@bob - does the claim influence your read on Ben?

And if the lynch is a mislynch, you going to lead the charge on me for being apart of it? if not, are you going to speak up when someone does (and they will)?

If the answer isn't no and then yes, then I'll just sit happily on my vote for who I know is scum.

[benhalkum]

Meant to say the three other possible wagons.

Pretend I’m not in this game. My slot’s disappeared, 3rd party nulled.

Who is scum and why.

The issue with what you're proposing is you take out the factor that without you in the game, the discussions and information would be different. So, good try on getting me to play you're game, but I stick with logic. Would I still feel uneasy about Salad and Almost50? Maybe. But unless we could actually look into your parrarel universe, there is no realisitc answer here.

[benhalkum]

So you are willing to make an anti town play to try and protect your own neck when you are claiming what is functionally named vanilla?

Protect my neck? You honestly feel I'm scum, lynch me. Of course when pret makes it to day 3 laughing at you, like he did when you guys lynched Tris, then that's on you.

I do not have to defend my vote. I've laid out multiple reasons why I am voting this way. I've laid out who could POSSIBLY be scum as well and why. I also didn't jump on the other town's obvious mislynch of tris, because I VOTE WHEN I AM ALMOST ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IT'S THE RIGHT VOTE. Suspicions aren't enough to take us down any more green. But if you feel it's ok to take out people who not everyone's sure about, don't be surprised when you're on the line later and don't have people coming to your defense.

[benhalkum]

Consider me done for the day.

Right there with you.

I'm not putting any more energy into trying to get people to look at logic either. They'll lynch someone and we'll see how bad it turns out this time.

[benhalkum]

So you are willing to make an anti town play to try and protect your own neck when you are claiming what is functionally named vanilla?

Protect my neck? You honestly feel I'm scum, lynch me. Of course when pret makes it to day 3 laughing at you, like he did when you guys lynched Tris, then that's on you.

I do not have to defend my vote. I've laid out multiple reasons why I am voting this way. I've laid out who could POSSIBLY be scum as well and why. I also didn't jump on the other town's obvious mislynch of tris, because I VOTE WHEN I AM ALMOST ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IT'S THE RIGHT VOTE. Suspicions aren't enough to take us down any more green. But if you feel it's ok to take out people who not everyone's sure about, don't be surprised when you're on the line later and don't have people coming to your defense.

If I end up on multiple mislynches I should get pressure. Doesn't magically change my role pm to red. I'm not sure how I read you, I do think there are better votes else where, but from what I can tell you are being anti town, you understand why, and if you are town you are too stubborn to care - it frustrates me.

The game of mafia is one of the most frusterating games there is, so I understand bud.

[benhalkum]

I do find it funny that ben has ahve manged to increase his post from shoking 30 to 40. By simply making posts how he is annoyed that poeple are askign him questions.

And of those 5-10 are posts liitle more than linking prior posts. Of which a few holding nothing more tahn one link

Not everyone lives in their parents basement and on welfare. Some of us have jobs, family, and things more important than online games.

Sorry, you feel my contributions haven't been enough. But I don't see a need to waste post when I could care less if you want to vote the way I do or not. I vote for who I feel is scum. I share info if I have it. If I have no new information, why waste the post and increase the post count to make it harder for those obviously better than I at getting details out? Just a clarification, you're not one of those people.

Good luck on your lynch, and if it goes through, I'll see you in the dead thread on day 3 where I will point out how I not only told you so, but still consider you and your playing dumb.

[benhalkum]

ben if you are town then how you have been last few day then you prety much tryign to throw teh game.

And you havnt even commented on how I ahve pointed out that you wot even vote for one of your own scum reads over your own lynch

Trying to throw the game would be me changing my vote up for everyone who votes for me. Instead, I just let people like you make your own decisions and do your thing, such as you're doing. Doesn't mean my opinion of you being dumb is any different though. And possible scum is not as strong as defiantly scum, which I what Pret is. Stop trying to get me to follow others and let me make my own decisions. If you think putting a vote on me will magically get me to change my mind, you're out of luck. You're just wasting another lynch.

You say people have lives and yes they do and everyoen has managed to make an attempt to post. And to engagewith the thread

you have made liek 10 game relevant posts. The rest are either linking of posts or you complaining

And I've engaged. I have pointed out why I feel Pret is scumm and why I believe Salad and A50 MIGHT be scum. Why continue to crowd up the thread? I feel like I'm drifitng into you're level of stupidity by even answering you at this point. I think you're town, but damn it's hard to see you harp on stuff that's already been addressed instead of looking at what others are actually doing.

But I degress. Do you're thing. If I'm lynched, just be ready to apologize day 3 when you're gone next. I'm not defending myself as I don't have to. I'm town, I've stated my thoughts on who i believe isn't. if that's not enough to convience, then do your thing.

[benhalkum]

I live a fast paced life in the SF area, but gotta get my workout in.

Rock climbing for the physical, mafia for the mental.

Side note - game aside - I love SF. I always hit up misdirection's magic shop any time I'm in town. It's a nice place to be.

[benhalkum]

UNVOTE: Pret

VOTE: Salad

There. Lets vote for one of the wagons everyone else wanted to build. While I have my scum feel of Salad, I'm not fully convinced. But, if he flips green watch this come back on me. In fact, if he flips green, maf please kill me during the night phase so I don't have to endure anymore stupidity.

[benhalkum]

ben wagon i think largley happened because of his refusual to interact.

I know i voted ben back up to l-1 after he irritated me by stone walling when I was trying to sort him. Thrice he refused to comment in effect why he would want either a no lynch or his own lynch than lynch his 3rd scum read.

Even if his responses were stroppy. Not sure if he is just real stuboon town or scum. As i just cant imagine scum acting this foolish. Its like he is determined to put a big lynch me sign on his back

UNVOTE:

Ok. Since you unvoted, who are you going to vote for now? Why? Why didn't you vote right away? Why aren't you giving discussion for why you haven't voted yet? What wagon are you jumping on? Why? When are you going to vote on that wagon? Wy haven't you yet?


See, dumb questions in rapid fire are irritating, aren't they?


But for real, put you're money where your mouth is (as Pret said earlier about me), if you're going to unvote me, then you need to vote someone. If you weren't already set, you might as well left the vote on me.

I don't give a damn if it was an L-1 vote on me. The tactic of voting someone just to get a reaction without having the conviction to see it through is shit.

[benhalkum]

Where's your vote bob? Time is running out bob. Come on bob. Why are you avoiding voting bob? Where's your interaction bob?

I seriously am super annoyed at you for the last few hours. But really.. lets see it. You unvoted, so cast your vote. Or are you really trying to throw people off of your trail?

I think I may go back and look at bob's post tbh. How is everyone else reading him and why? Mizzy? RCE? Pret? A50? LUV? Everyone? Where are we on bob? I find it really funny he was so gung effen ho about me a bit ago, but then unvotes and goes silent.

[benhalkum]

My last few hours

[benhalkum]

Ben even if you are beign even stropier atleast your starting to get the idea. That you got to ask questions, i hope this trend continues but dont forget you also got to answer questions. You can take you time to respond but dont do a half hearted response.

Well I unvoted you because i got teh info i needed to read you better. Didnt want it get to last day were i would have to make the decision between two players were one there was nothing to read. It was a little like getting blood from stone i must admit.

Now i will have a few players i want to look at to see how they all pair up. but at the moment my vote today will be oen of BEF, A50 and sald. Prety sure one of either mizzy or A50 is scum. And am leaning from his post over the last day or two towards mizzy being town.

Why BEF? He's pretty easy to town read IMO. Why not A50 or Salad like everyone else seems to want?

[benhalkum]

Where's your vote bob? Time is running out bob. Come on bob. Why are you avoiding voting bob? Where's your interaction bob?

I seriously am super annoyed at you for the last few hours. But really.. lets see it. You unvoted, so cast your vote. Or are you really trying to throw people off of your trail?

I think I may go back and look at bob's post tbh. How is everyone else reading him and why? Mizzy? RCE? Pret? A50? LUV? Everyone? Where are we on bob? I find it really funny he was so gung effen ho about me a bit ago, but then unvotes and goes silent.

There the spirit look back at players post and actualy try to become informed. Let people know you thoughs so they can make both judgement on validity of you reads and the validity of your alignment from those same reads.

Be welcome change as i think there are few players you havent even mentioned unless they were directly questioning you

I was just kidding. I could care less to go back and read your mindless ramblings.

[benhalkum]

Seems like a good list for potentials. At least with A50 and Salad

[benhalkum]

As for my thoughts on you, before today you kind of was under my radar TBH. Do I think you're actually scum? No. But you did get me riled up earlier. lol

[benhalkum]

but at the moment my vote today will be oen of BEF, A50 and sald. Prety sure one of either mizzy or A50 is scum.

So you think there's scum between me and Mizzy, but you want to lynch me, BEF or salad?? Or am I misreading this?

To be fair, he did pull Mizzy out of the list with:

"now as i said if you look ben. That im town reading mizzy after his repsonses and actions since i started evaluating there."

[benhalkum]

Dos that put Salad at lynch or L-1?

[benhalkum]

Dos that put Salad at lynch or L-1?

Not by my count

I think it's

Almost50 - 4 (DrDoolittle, Mizzytastic, Lil Uzi Vert, RCEnigma, )
benhalkum - 3 (Pretentious, Saladman27, Almost50, )
Saladman27 - 3 (BrightEyedFish, benhalkum, bob3141, )

No vote: Skellen,

Weird. I thought it was different.

People need to start using the unvote button when switching their votes, especially this late in the game. Gets confusing.

:shrugs:

[benhalkum]

Well, I still SR RC and Ben but other than Ben I think Scum is outside my wagon. I don't I can defend myself because this entire game I played scummy.

Did you play scummy intentionally? I don't understand that admission at all.

[benhalkum]

*If you're town that is

[benhalkum]

This is EXACTLY why I did not want to change my vote. I said I had scum vibes of Salad but my gut had me elsewhere. I stood my ground and got crapped on for it. Good work everybody! Way to be team players and such. Next time, instead of crying that I won't budge on my vote because I'm not 100% sure, why not go back and look at why I'm so gung ho about sticking?

I'm so irritated right now.

I'm looking at Bob and Mizzy more before I cast my vote since both of them worked hard against me to get me to vote here when it is not who I wanted. I'm starting to think maybe I was looking in the wrong direction and should have realized that they were forwarding their own agendas.

[benhalkum]

Now that I've had time to get over being irritated...

Thank you Mizzy for your breakdown. I hadn't pinpointed yo to be BG, but even with my temper flaring, I had you at town. Now, instead of just jumping back on the Pret train I've driven for two days, before I decide where my vote goes, I am going to look a bit more. Honestly, I'm unsure on Bob. Removing the irritation he put me through D2, I'm still semi iffy on him in general. My big looking glass for today though is going to shine on A50. Even as Vex it didn't sit right, A50 is no different. I do want to be a bit more careful though before I go right out and vote him after what happened with Salad the night before, but he's on my radar. While Pret isn't safe from me gunning for him again, I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt that maybe that is just how he plays. But damn if it isn't frustrating as all get out.

[benhalkum]

Yeah which is a major problem today. Because if I'm wrong and Prets town we lose here. Because I don't want to lynch outside of us two today, and if he flips town it's my ass in the hotseat and I'd probably eat the lynch yomorrow.

Are you suggesting we vote either you or Pret today and not look at A50 or anyone else? If so, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that. From the way you're saying it, it almost seems like a given that we vote Pret first then if he flips town you're next. Why would we do that instead of vote you first, and see where you flip?

Seems to me if you're willing to put yourself on a chopping block scenario, you wouldn't want to give us a chance of being wrong and screwing the town more over again, unless you feel Pret will flip green and that by next day you can secure a maf win with one more townie being down.

I may be looking too far into it, but it stood out as odd to me.

[benhalkum]

tris - 7 (Mizzytastic, Almost50, t, t, Lil Uzi Vert, Pretentious, t)

With teh dead replaced with t.

skitter and BEF were nk and sald lynched. Now how many are town and how many scum.

off that wagon

RCEnigma, benhalkum, DrDoolittle, Skellen are all stile alive. Aswell as me but i know im town.

if scum were heavy on tris why kill of the wagon.

That's the thing though, either they could purposely be doing it to give us a sense of "they can't be scum cause that wagon is being killed off." They only have to make it another, what, day or two and they have majority? Either that or they aren't on the wagon and it's just a dumb play to kill off possible suspects.

[benhalkum]

Me, rce , skellen would have made better kills. Drd was off to even if as being wagoned that day.

Unless there's scum in this list. We are taking for granted that we believe we know who is who. I think day 3 paranoia is going to sit in hard now that we're down so many green.

[benhalkum]

L/VA till 10/27

[benhalkum]

Still semi v/la, but checking in.

[benhalkum]

theres no 3 protectives in this game?!

Like I agree that the Jailkeeper is the odd one that sticks out here, but if we take bob's hinting at face value we can as well have 4 protectives by claims (or still 3 if one is fake), so I don't know what to make of the setup yet.

No one else has claimed JK though. You would think, that's a role that if you tried claiming falsely someone would have called them on it by now. I'm not saying I magically think Pret is town, but I am saying if there is another JK then they should def speak up.

Has Bob stated what kind of PR he has yet? It's a bit odd he's made claims that he has a PR but has been, at least how I've seen, vague about it. Unless he's calling vig or vet a soft PR. Probably vet with no vig kills yet. So a BG, vet, and JK to me at least are not out of the ordinary.

Just thinking out loud. After the last couple phases we've had, I'm a bit leery going into today. We really need to get this right.

[benhalkum]

Im not a direct protective like jk or doc or bg. Before i give more detail i think others should claim first.

i cant see town have 3 goes at protecting a player. Without scum havign somethign to balance it out. Infact 3 direct protectives would mean that scum would have to have strongman. Even with one or two town roles that could prevent other town roles from workign i doubt anything less than strongman woudl be enough to balance

So pret being town requires scum to have strongman.

This to me kind of makes me feel as if my thoughts on your role are in the right direction then.

What if Pret's role IS the strongman? He claimed Jk with 2 shot ability right? Have we considered that his 2 shot ability is red and his claim is only a half truth?

[benhalkum]

Im not a direct protective like jk or doc or bg. Before i give more detail i think others should claim first.

i cant see town have 3 goes at protecting a player. Without scum havign somethign to balance it out. Infact 3 direct protectives would mean that scum would have to have strongman. Even with one or two town roles that could prevent other town roles from workign i doubt anything less than strongman woudl be enough to balance

So pret being town requires scum to have strongman.

This to me kind of makes me feel as if my thoughts on your role are in the right direction then.

What if Pret's role IS the strongman? He claimed Jk with 2 shot ability right? Have we considered that his 2 shot ability is red and his claim is only a half truth?

NVM, I'm stupid. 2-shot would mean he can Jk twice, and if I remember correctly someone has claimed they have been detained, right? It's too early for me to try to use my brain this morning.

[benhalkum]

Thinking about it more.

So pret being town requires scum to have strongman.

We've only seen basic mafia kills so far right? Or have the targets not been important enough to distinguish a normal maf kill vs strongman?

I'm still just not convinced Pret is town, but don't want to start the "vote Pret" train again if I'm still the only one scum reading him.

[benhalkum]

2 shot means he has 2 shots. So he would be out of shots know as he claimed 2 have claimed rce twice


Dont think ive noticed anyoen claim that they had been detained. Ben who was it?

I MAY be confusing him with his claim he's kept RCE twice then. On MafiaScum does it tell you when you've been blocked/JailKept? Mind you, I come from a different place that when you are, you know completely. If so, can RCE confirm?

Just want to have facts to defend my vote decision this time that others will see, cause I think the last few phases I've just not been presenting my case against him right.

[benhalkum]

I think I have seen the light.

Im not a direct protective like jk or doc or bg. Before i give more detail i think others should claim first.

i cant see town have 3 goes at protecting a player. Without scum havign somethign to balance it out. Infact 3 direct protectives would mean that scum would have to have strongman. Even with one or two town roles that could prevent other town roles from workign i doubt anything less than strongman woudl be enough to balance

So pret being town requires scum to have strongman.

Ok, this makes it pretty obvious what you probably are if you are what I think you are.

I don't think scum necessarily needs a Strongman here. We got a Doc who can't protect consecutively and a Bodyguard who dies with the correct save and you with your indirect save. The only investigative to save here was the Tracker. In best case the combination of Doc/Bodyguard could protect the Tracker for three nights until scum would get a shot on the Tracker. The key is the Tracker Enabler here. I was already wondering what his purpose is here, but he is the backdoor for scum to bypass the protective roles to neutralize the Tracker.

The thing that was bothering me is that the Tracker would look so weak with at least three active town PRs. That would mean that Pret is indeed scum here.

Sweet Jesus if only I could articulate like this, maybe we'd be in a different place by now.

[benhalkum]

I targeted RCE again.

I half expected him to be killed if he were town there.

And if he was scum, i would have hoped he wouldn’t think I’d target him twice.

Yes, but after there was a mafia kill both nights, how would you back up the claim you did anything worth salt for the town? Almost seems like a second night was a waste IF you are town.

[benhalkum]

Cause I'm feeling that any extra killing role falls under town protective (Vet, etc). Wouldn't a scum kill hen RCE is locked up kind of clear him at least in terms of being a trigger man?

[benhalkum]

-.-

So now Almost50 tries to claim he's tied to the tracker who is no longer in the game? I find this as a HUGE red flag as I know I was an enabler for the tracker, ensured I claimed it early. Now that A50 has heat on him still, all of a sudden he wants to jump on the same bandwagon? Sketchy AF.

I'm down to vote either A50 or Pret today, with A50 taking the clear lead now.

[benhalkum]

Pretty sure I just won a game where A50 was in with a fake visitor claim. I was drunk yesterday and now I’m zoggin so not really in the right space to think

I don't know if this helps me want to go ahead and pull the trigger on my A50 vote... or if I see this as a detourant tactic.

#conflcited.

[benhalkum]

The question you should all be asking yourselves is WHY would I fake a claim like that? The Tracker is DEAD already, so I could've just claimed VT (and effectively I am, because I'm not even Compulsive)

Good question, WHY are you? It's weird AF.

[benhalkum]

How convenient. Your role depends on the tracker, who died D1. And you visited BEF N1 and N2, who is not dead. But why? If your role is effectively VT now as you put it, why would you visit anyone? That means you're NOT VT if you're able to get ANY info about someone you visit as per your comment "I wanted to see if he was town". If your role relied on Tris to work at all, there would be no N2 visit and prob no N1.

VOTE: Almost50

[benhalkum]

Guys, I don't want to spoil you party, but -so far- everything makes sense to me from a setup design/balance PoV. The designers

clearly

balanced the game around town powers trespassing on each other's turf, and thus scum could actually win through town miscommunication.

I am a Loyal Visitor. My role stopped being useful the night the Tracker died. I had been hoping for a Tracker Backup to exist to bring my role back into the game (If a Tracker successfully tracks me to someone then my target is town, but then there's a massive possibility for that to give a false result via the JK targeting me, or to give a no result if they target the Tracker)

How convenient. Your role depends on the tracker, who died D1. And you visited BEF N1 and N2, who is not dead. But why? If your role is effectively VT now as you put it, why would you visit anyone? That means you're NOT VT if you're able to get ANY info about someone you visit as per your comment "I wanted to see if he was town". If your role relied on Tris to work at all, there would be no N2 visit and prob no N1.

VOTE: Almost50

Ben did you miss this. I think A50 already explained why he still made an action n2

Still doesn't make sense to me. If there was a tracker backup, I think they would have already come out before his supposed second night visit. I mean, yea, he has a good scenario laid out of WHY the game could be designed the way it is. But honestly not adding up for me bob.

[benhalkum]

as per your comment "I wanted to see if he was town"

Learn to bloody READ.

O said I wanted to

confirm

him as town, not "to see if he was town". I was confident he was Town already, and you can ho back to my D1 posts about BEF in particular. I was hoping the Backup Tracker would Track me to BEF on N2, and I -sure as hell- didn't expect BEF to be the NK either.

So, I visited BEF on both nights in hopes the Tracker/His Backup (or a Watcher if that was the case because I didn't know which was in play) would see me targeting BEF, which would confirm BEF as Town-aligned.

Fair enough for now.

UNVOTE:

But I'm still suspicious.

[benhalkum]

Although the work day is almost over, don't want to have a vote on you and something crazy happen overnight.

[benhalkum]

Kinda waiting to see where Mizzy and Skellen are falling on this. I'm thinking Pret is the way to go (AGAIN) but don't want to be a waste of a vote if they lean more toward A50. Trying to be a player of the team here.

[benhalkum]

I don’t have anything to argue against you because you only push things on a complete surface level of play.

When I am scum, there are no reasons like that for me to be actually scum. That’s proof game state has set me up that way

Can you clarify this a bit for me? I'm agreeing bob comes across as just pushing things on the surface level. But the last line I'm not quite understanding personally. Are you saying the game design was set up to make you look like scum? That feel like reaching.

[benhalkum]

Town roleblocker

I even outright hinted to my one town read at the time RCE on day 2. The phrasing was quite intentional. Also did no one noticed how i was saying roleblocker all time

I actually got from your various claims you were a vet. If you were roleblocker, who have you blocked?

[benhalkum]

Mizzy, Pret, A50, DDL, LUV, and RCE...


I'm thinking Pret.

Bob's saying skellen

Pret is saying A50.

---

We need to come together as a town and choose wisely here.

[benhalkum]

So am I the only one who is bothered by the mechanic around loyal Visitor/Tracker Enabler?

I mean let's assume we have a Roleblocker and a Jailkeeper and both Visitor and Tracker could be blocked, let's ignore that the Tracker would have to find the Visitor first or one of them dies despite all these protectives running around. I can buy that scum has to kill the Tracker to neutralize the Visitor, but additionally to that there is a Tracker Enabler that would basically neutralize two town PRs in one strike if scum hits him? That doesn't sound right? Or is that justified as "balance" to the high amount of protectives?

The visitor throws me off as well, and honestly, my gut is telling me he claimed it because he knew it would cause confusion. My question is, why wouldn't he claim it right after I outted myself? If he is town, thinking I'm scum, it would be a perfect time to bring in "Well, I'm visitor, so having a tracking enabler is suspicious." Instead he waits as long as he did. it wasn't until the rest of the town finally started to see I'm on their side, that he used that as an opportunity to claim something with my theory of being in hopes to get a similar reaction.

Reading your post has me questioning a lot of A50's tactics. The set up is defiantly PR heavy, and to have a tracker, and enabler, and a visitor seems like overkill. To be fair, before this game I've never even heard of a track enabler as well. Just returning to mafiascum after a long hiatus, in which previously I didn't really play. So I'm learning new roles here I've never seen in my circles such as enabler and visitor. That's kinda cool.

As for Pret and Bob, I 100% agree it makes more sense if at least one of them is scum as having a JK and RB in this type of set up is def overkill as well. An oddity I was thinking about is, if you are a 2-shot JK.. why blow both shots the first two nights? The purpose of a limited role that strong is wait until you have a realistic suspect then strike. I say a N2 or even N3 for the first use is a better way to use the role. Taking that Pret is experienced, why would he blow both loads the first two nights? Doesn't make sense to me at all when I consider his experience level from what I've seen in this game alone. On the other hand, Bob is saying he basically claimed RB.. but at the same time here we all are thinking he was vet or vig or something along that nature, a soft PR.. RB is not soft IMO. Its a strong and important role.

LUV is now claiming VT, and I mostly believe him. He's been disengaged and that's something I tend to do when vanilla as the role sucks. But my guard isn't fully down as he could just be sitting back watching the town all go at each other.


Today's vote should be on Pret, A50 or Bob.

.Out of those three though, my guts still telling me Pret or A50 more than bob.

[benhalkum]

My work day is almost over. I'm going to go ahead and vote.

VOTE: Pret

While it's a toss up between him and A50, this is where the votes are so far. We need this red flip bad.

[benhalkum]

We've got 3 on Pret and 2 on A50. I feel as we've come to a group conclusion these two are scum.

My suggestion? Hang one today and RB one tonight?

[benhalkum]

Then we just have to figure out the third tomorrow and BAM.. town wins.

[benhalkum]

So now we're at 3 on Pret and 2 on Skellen, 1 on A50.

I just don't feel the Skellen as scum vote to be 100% honest here. What I'm finding odd is Pret jumping to Skellen from A50 once I call for us to band together and knock one of them out. Could be A50+Pret team?

[benhalkum]

I'll hammer either one of pret/A50. Tie up the wagons boys and gals.

If Mizzy or Skellen will vote Pret, and you hammer. We have first scum down. Then Bob can RB A50 tonight, tie him up tomorrow and that's two down. If a two scum game, then we win. If three, we just find the last of the team and we're golden.

[benhalkum]

Unless Bob wants to change his mind, and well.. like I was harped on yesterday.. and vote for the person who the majority has a wagon on instead of his own intrest…

Just screwing with ya bob. But still...

[benhalkum]

Honestly, we're at the point I'm interested to see who DOESN'T vote on Pret with him being L-2 and why.

Even RCE's "I'll hammer if we get him there" stands out to me as weird. Why not just put the vote on him? That would force action to be taken. Either a hammer falling or we can see what Pret team roaches skitter from the wagon.

Kinda suspicious.

[benhalkum]

The thing we have to remember pret is either scum or town

Even if he is scum there are two partners out there.

Question is pret down or scum and frankly i dont know

Same argument I had when I tried to not vote on Salad and you gave me hell Bob.

Why is it OK for you to not join the town coconscious?

[benhalkum]

VOTE: Pret

For better or worse, I think I want this flipped today.

P.S. back to my D1 theory if Pret flips red then DDL, RCE & ben are all clear (DDL was the third wagon and RCE/ben were voting the scum wagon when they really didn't have to)

what happens to this theory if pret flips town

He wont.

I've been saying it for 3 day phases now and I will continue to.

Said yourself you can't really read right now. Try trusting this phase and if we're wrong (we wont be) then you hold the stick tomorrow to say "I told you so" like I was able to with Salad.

[benhalkum]

Lynch pret, RB A50, then we have a day phase to hang A50 and find the third to RB and hang next day. Town wins.

[benhalkum]

Guys, I don't want to spoil you party, but -so far- everything makes sense to me from a setup design/balance PoV. The designers

clearly

balanced the game around town powers trespassing on each other's turf, and thus scum could actually win through town miscommunication.

I am a Loyal Visitor. My role stopped being useful the night the Tracker died. I had been hoping for a Tracker Backup to exist to bring my role back into the game (If a Tracker successfully tracks me to someone then my target is town, but then there's a massive possibility for that to give a false result via the JK targeting me, or to give a no result if they target the Tracker)

why didnt you claim during day 2 when it looked liek you could easily be the lynch.

If there was a backup tracker or another role wouldnt it be better for you to roleclaim.

Even if you did get night killed it would remove you mislynch tommorrow. After all as you claim your role was largley useless at this point.

And you could always test any one claiming to have tracked you

Because it's a BS claim he made. Really, I've already asked the "whys" here.

He shoulda claimed right after I came out if he was in fact tied to tracker as well. Which.. I'm still not seeing two people being tied to tracker, even with theories you guys laid out previously.

[benhalkum]

Still also not feeling the RCE hammer intent. I think you should pick a side, vote, and we come together to do this. We NEED this red flip.

[benhalkum]

I'm also bothered Mizzy and Skellen aren't checking in and giving their opinions

[benhalkum]

I’m a Multitasking JOAT.

1 shot of Jailkeeper, Roleblock, Watcher.

N1 I targeted RCE with Roleblock.
N2 RCE with Jailkeeper. BEF with Watcher. LUV targeted BEF.

I’ve put LUV in the majority of my solves and have been trying to get him to claim all day, and he’s been coasting

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ANOTHER CLAIM?

Come on people...

[benhalkum]

ARE WE JUST IGNORING PRET'S BULLSHIT?

[benhalkum]

The non voters NEED to get in here damn it. And the quiet ones who've been put on the spot now by Pret's claims, need to speak too.

This game is starting to stall and the scum are taking crazy advantage of it.

[benhalkum]

Wait.. we actually did it? After two days of trying, it happened?

[benhalkum]

I may just need to break my "no internets on the weekend" rule to see how this plays out.

[benhalkum]

So, can I mention that I told you so?

[benhalkum]

And I’d argue it’s weird you made it through the night phase...

[benhalkum]

Votecount 3.6

Pretentious

- 5 (DrDolittle, benhalkum, Almost50, RCEnigma, Pretentious)

Almost50

- 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)

Lil Uzi Vert

- 1 (bob3141)

Not Voting

- 2 (Mizzytastic, Skellen)

With 9 alive, 5 votes achieves a lynch. Scene follows.

OK. Last day phase my scum sense was tingling on A50, but with them being third of 5 to vote on Pret, I'm not sure how I feel. A scum on scum vote is usually last, right? Or, maybe they didn't expect Pret to go ahead and hammer himself before they could remove their vote? I'm still feeling A50, but I'm not ready to pull the trigger until I really am sure.


Mizzy and Skellen not voting at all is a HUGE red flag to me. Both were not as active the last day or voting, but why didn't they put a vote say two days before when they were?

As for LUV and Bob... we have a VT claim and a RB claim, but votes on people who were not town indicative when there was an obvious wagon going, the same thing I was accused of both day 1 and 2 when I TOLD YOU ALL PRET WAS SCUM. Bob's vauge claiming earl yon leg us to think vig or vet, but all of a sudden it's a RB role that he was "clear" about? Not sure if I'm buying that much like I really don't buy LUV's random VT role.

Here's where I am as of this morning:

SCUM

A50
MIZZY
SKELLEN

SCUM LEAN

LUV
BOB

TOWN

RCEnimga

[benhalkum]

Ben can you read. When did i ever hint vig or vet.

The way you described your role is of one that is a soft PR. RB is NOT a soft PR. A soft PR is one someone comes to you on, such as vig or vet. Also, can I read? Someone's a little ass hurt already huh?

I can not see how you managed to even think for moment that i was softing vig or vet. When i countless times can outright stop a night kill.

How can vig stop a night kill. If vig kills the scum doing teh nk, the nk still happens.

I said i was not a direct protective. In other words im indirect . How many times did i talk about roleblocking.

Indirect, meaning they come to you, not you go to them. So your argument is invalid.

How can anyone for second think im anything other than town. If im not town taht leaves a big hole in teh town pr.

tracker, doc and bg and visitor thing would not be balanced. even if scum have no more pr.

tracker, doc and rb yes but tracker doc bg never

Your voting habits for one make you suspicious...

And ben if you are town that means there is tracker enabler.

So we have tracker that randomly scum have 20% chance of eliminating every night. And that becomes 25% during the second night.

IF I am town? Dude, you are crzy AF if you want to try and caus esome sort of doubt on the only 100% confirmed town person IN the game. The ONLY 100% town person who from DAY ONE told you who was scum. Maybe I didn't justify it in a way you could comprehend, but if for one second you think you can turn my CONFIRMED ALIGNMENT around you just shot fully up to the top of my list.

Your rapid fired post are those of a nervous person. Why are you nervous? It is 100% non town indicative to shoot at the only confirmed town person like that instead of actually presenting a valid case of why you're town to everyone and not just a "Nu uh.. I'm so not scum cause.. cause reasons" like you did.

[benhalkum]

As today's probably the last phase scum will let me stay alive, I'm going to make the best of it.

I know my alignment, there should be no doubt to anyone else my alignment. Now lets try and confirm other's alignments as well. Cause to me, all of you could be liars.

[benhalkum]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

[benhalkum]

In fact..

@Everyone with an active role...

Spew it. Who did what to who and why?

[benhalkum]

Ben how are you confirmed?

Your no more confirmed then any other player. Have you got a clear on yourself no. And ben you only ever said one scum and you were so focused you were prepared to let no lynch happen.


Learn what indirect means.


Serously if you are town take a proper look at the game. If you great deduction is to go after the last town pr and teh lurker

No more confirmed? You're a complete idiot aren't you? An absolute, bottom of the barrel, window licking idiot. I was focused because I KNEW IT WAS THE RIGHT LYNCH.

Unlike you guys who wanted everyone to gang up on someone because you were hoping they'd flip red.

How'd that go for the town so far?

Get off your high horse and instead of leading everyone to make decisions that favor your thought process, come to a conclusion yourself and tell us why then stick to it. This wishy washy BS can't keep going in this game.. that's to all of you. Maybe if more people stuck with their gut than jumping on wagons because you have annoying pricks like Bob here trying to say you got to agree with the majority, we wouldn't be where we are.

[benhalkum]

The drama between a50 and pret felt rather odd. It felt very much at that end point pret was trying to get lynched. As why would he say that only luv visited bef when a50 pressed.

Quite clear that was all quite deliberate on pret part. But cant tell if it was to distance a50 and him or some elaborate set up

Agreed. A50's not off my list by a long shot even if he did vote Pret and Pret voted him.

[benhalkum]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

I roleblocked RCE. Since RCE would be the last person scum would think i would rb. Then if he was scum he would of done the night kill.


Was unlikely to catch scum directly so went to get the closest thing to clear untill we get teh second scum.


Since drd died we can be safe that rce and pret havnt been playign us.

Why are you so sure he would have done the night kill? To be honest, lets say RCE is scum. You RB'k him. So this guarantees we either have a third scum or a town killing role, right? By RBing RCE, we KNOW he did not pull the trigger. Who else, other than RCE would be a good candidate for under the radar enough to make the kill?

Honestly, I'd say prob LUV.

Thoughts?

[benhalkum]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

I roleblocked RCE. Since RCE would be the last person scum would think i would rb. Then if he was scum he would of done the night kill.


Was unlikely to catch scum directly so went to get the closest thing to clear untill we get teh second scum.


Since drd died we can be safe that rce and pret havnt been playign us.

You what?

Interesting.

What did you doe RCE to come off in this as Bob is lying?

[benhalkum]

Let’s do Skellen.

Why? I mean, I'm not against it. But why?

[benhalkum]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

I roleblocked RCE. Since RCE would be the last person scum would think i would rb. Then if he was scum he would of done the night kill.


Was unlikely to catch scum directly so went to get the closest thing to clear untill we get teh second scum.


Since drd died we can be safe that rce and pret havnt been playign us.

You what?

Interesting.

What did you doe RCE to come off in this as Bob is lying?

I'm not calling him a liar. I'm just saying of all the slots to rb after pret flipping red I should be the last one, but whatever it's fine, the night play isn't Important.

Fair enough and really, where I am too. I probably would have blocked LUV, Skellen, Almost50, or Mizzy.

Actually.. if I remember correctly, I said yesterday "lets hang Pret, then RB A50 tonight, hang him tomorrow (today) and we are two red down."

Him blocking you is a VERY random and weird claim out of all of the obvious choices for scum.

But, for Bob himself, I'm prob not going to engage with him any more directly this phase if the rest of this game cause frankly, he irritates me to a level that makes it not fun.

[benhalkum]

Let’s do Skellen.

Let’s do Skellen.

Why? I mean, I'm not against it. But why?

I keep forgetting that their in the game and I found her last post pretty odd.

Fair enough.

How are others feeling on Skellen?

I'm holding on tight that A50 is where we should go today, but I'm staying open right now to other arguments.

[benhalkum]

Ok.

I'm feeling LUV and Bob's side on Skellen.

I'd be willing to put an intent to vote Skellen if we could ensure A50 is blocked tonight. If we're right, that gives us the game.


Actually, either way I'd be Ok with I think. Hang Skellen or A50 today, block the other tonight, game over.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[benhalkum]

We should be going A50/Luv today. 1 is guaranteed scum even if we mislynch the townie of the two today.

Skellen is already on LUV. No one on A50.

As a group, we should IMO pick which one and go for it. LUV is already started, so maybe that's where we go first?

[benhalkum]

I’m town and I can prove it. Just give me time.

VOTE: Skellen

….

Didn't you claim to be VT? How can you prove it if you're just VT, unless you were lying?

[benhalkum]

I’m town and I can prove it. Just give me time.

VOTE: Skellen

….

Didn't you claim to be VT? How can you prove it if you're just VT, unless you were lying?

Of course I lied. There wasn’t a reason to mass claim there.

VOTE: LUV

Maybe wasn't a reason to mass claim, but to say VT then say that was a lie once you get pressure?

Scummy AF.

[benhalkum]

I feel like the push on me is in order to kill all VTs off. Once I am lynched and RCE gets killed tonight all VTs are dead and scum can hide in lylo among all PR claims. This stinks.

Why are you so sure you are today's lynch? Honestly, LUV is not sitting right at all with the way he's playing.

Lack of activity, claims he's VT is why. He gets voted, all of a sudden h's not VT. VERY scummy.

[benhalkum]

I’m thinking if I should claim.

Doesn't matter if you do. Your credibility is as shot as Pret's was.

[benhalkum]

I’m thinking if I should claim.

Doesn't matter if you do. Your credibility is as shot as Pret's was.

luv uou migth as well claim. Were are at l-1 everyone has claimed but you.

You did claim vt but have rowed back from it. So what is your role and why originaly claim vt

I’m a novice vigilante. I shot BEF.

I don't believe this at all. This would mean there was no mafia kill during that night? Just a vig kill?


I call HUGE bs.

[benhalkum]

We need to, as a group, decide which one then to hang today. Right now, if I remember correct, we're split.

Hang one, if their town then we know who the second is to RB tonight.

Honestly I'm leaning LUV for the hanging. The VT claim and now vig leaves a SOUR taste in my mouth.

[benhalkum]

Ben's unofficial vote count:

Skellen

- 2 (bob3141, Lil Uzi Vert)

Lil Uzi Vert

- 2 (Skellen, benhalkum)

Almost50

- 1 (Amrun)

Not Voteing

- 2 (Almost50, RCEnigma)


----

It's 4 to lynch and we have decided, i believe, that we're looking at LUV and Skellen as the 2 posibilities today. I would like if we could, as a town, put our efforts to move it forward on one of them. I'll move my vote to Skellen if someone else shows intent to hammer or puts them at L-1. However, I would like to make the plea to the town we take out LUV for the simple fact his claim is obvious BS and the way he went about it is. HOWEVER, if he flips green, then we know for a fact Skellen is scum.

What's the move here guys? Lets work as a unit.

[benhalkum]

As I said

ON DAY ONE

; one of Skellen/LUV + one of Mizzy/bob (I didn't say that exactly, but I theorized the vote distribution on wagons at some point and so far nothing has proven me wrong on principle).

VOTE: LUV

This is the correct move. I have no idea why anyone is accepting the Vigilante claim here. I believe the claim came to him when I said a Vig must've shot skitter at the start of D2. I also agree with bob that if LUV was a Vig there's no way he shoots BEF over me or Pret.

2 down, one to go.

Well that escalated quickly. Especially after RCE and Amrun asked for time.

[benhalkum]

That pretty much clears it up doesn't it?

Take Skellen out today, RB A50 again tonight and we win?

[benhalkum]

Assuming they figured Skellen would be RB'd and A50 would make the kill.

Awesome thinking Bob.

I know we've had our issues but THAT was a good play

[benhalkum]

I intend to vote Skellen as well, but want to give others a chance to chime in so we don't quick hammer without hearing other opinions.

[benhalkum]

Speaking of.. now that the thread's open...

Did not like the A50 hammer at all at the end of the last phase when we had people asking for time before hammering.

[benhalkum]

I'd like to hear from Amrun, A50, and Skellen.

At this point I'm confident 2 of them are our remaining scum. All signs point to Skellen and A50, but not quite sold fully.


Thought Amrun's mentioning of why he's unsure the person he replaced had done or said the things they had was a bit odd. While it could be a townish lean of "Why would they look so scummy?" why do it publicly and not just pick up and move foreward?


But this also bothers me cause if Amrun IS scum, then we are wrong on either Skellen or A50 as I am confident RCE and Bob are town at this point.

[benhalkum]

Dodging a prod. Not going la/v as I’m checking in. Just unable to read through everything and reply atm.

[benhalkum]

Everyone migth aswell say were they are. The two i want to lynch for obvous reasons are skellen and A50.

I'm at the same, but to be 100% honest, Amrun has made a compelling case against you. I don't think I fully feel it though.

With Skellen on V/LA for so long, we will get no additional info out of him. And A50 has been very quiet as well.

At this point, we need to, as a group, decide which of these two (Skellen, A50) go first.

We have a vote on Skellen (Was 2). Do we go there, or does Bob jump on A50 and we follow him?

Is there anyone who feels we don't have them here with Skellen or A50 enough to veto this course of action?

I mean, if Bob is scum... man... he did a good job convincing me other wise. So ATM I'm staying with the two that I am pretty sure are our guys. Just don't want to place a vote somewhere for others to go the other way.

[benhalkum]

*Crickets*

[benhalkum]

I'd like to get intent from RCE and Amrun

[benhalkum]

I'd like to get intent from RCE and Amrun

Intent for what?

I’ll vote either of them at this point. The town isn’t motivated enough to look deeper.

I’d probably rather lynch A50 at this point. If my paranoia is right, I’ve decided bob is more likely sacrificing A50. Or pushing the easy mislynch. Whatever at this point.

It could be A50/Skellen. Definitely usually horses > zebras as I said earlier.

Ok.

With that being said, I'll go ahead and VOTE: Skellen as Bob already has 1 on him. To me, easier than trying to convince him to jump on A50, although A50 is my preference as he's the first one of the two that punched me in the gut as Scum.


That's 2 of 4 needed.

[benhalkum]

At the end of the day, we know one of those two go today, next tomorrow, and game won.

[benhalkum]

I don’t understand why bob is voting Skellen over A50. The thought progression doesn’t make sense to me.

Agreed. A50 def my first choice.

If Bob switches, I will as well.

Either way we should still win as long as we're right here on these final two.

[benhalkum]

RCE - I intend to go where you go on this vote. Either we lunch smelled or you get on A50, I’ll go there

[benhalkum]

Also.. I’m unsure of what to think of A50’s vote. Trying to throw us off?

[benhalkum]

RCE.. where are you falling on this?

[benhalkum]

VOTE: Skellen

With A50 gone, it’s time to wrap this one up.

[benhalkum]

Thank you guys all sooo much!

My scum mates.. I feel honored to have played with you. Was crazy waiting for each night so we could talk.

Ty to everyone really.

Such a fun game. Ty plum.

[benhalkum]

What I thought was amazing was both after Prets death and A50.. they each basically pointed at me as the scum partner and.. NO ONE MENTIONED IT

Pret told me kill miz next on his death thread and A50 directly said get me next

Not even considered.

Crazy.

Felt so good killing bob.