Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[xRECKONERx]

Because it has been too damn fucking long

VOTE: xRECKONERx

feeling's the same, toots

VOTE: Starbuck

[xRECKONERx]

oh no UT is actually scum here isn't he

sad day

[xRECKONERx]

what made your name blue?

radiation sickness

[xRECKONERx]

You forgot LOL

[xRECKONERx]

ok deal

[xRECKONERx]

ok so i feel like the game went from jokey rvs to srs bzns super duper fast, that was whiplash

@kmd what do you mean by ABR "forcing" his way into an alliance? i thought he started it.

nvm that got answered too lazy to delete.

i'm wholly uninterested in this llamarble/auro back and forth over the difference between cuteness and randomness.

if auro could stop spamposting that'd be A++
i mean porkens too tbh.

@marble: v interested why i'm scummy off 5 RVS joke posts

[xRECKONERx]

don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum

is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?

pedit: your intutition is off then !

one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:

opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.

i really like this post. a lot.

[xRECKONERx]

i am personally down to vote anyone who doesn't list me as one of their favorite scummers.

getting town vibes from farside the strongest so far. hoopla is a mystery to me. i like hoopla's posts but... that doesn't mean anything alignment related.

MT has pinged me mostly on gut but i cant tell if that's bias against her posting style

@starbuck: what are you hoping to gain asking people a bunch of non game related questions

[xRECKONERx]

oooh i like this wagon.

VOTE: GC

[xRECKONERx]

What do you think about my infinitesimally small iso, Porkens?

[xRECKONERx]

I don't like the green crayon votes so I'll jump on the counter wagon.

Unvote, Vote iamausername

why dont you like the GC votes

[xRECKONERx]

Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

i'll have you know some wallpaper is fucking beautiful

[xRECKONERx]

I don't like the green crayon votes so I'll jump on the counter wagon.

Unvote, Vote iamausername

why dont you like the GC votes

They feel like a wagon for the sake of a wagon. Almost every vote felt random. Hoopla had four votes which made her the lead wagon then all of the sudden starts selling green crayons as THE wagon that everyone needs to be on and says there's town points in it for everyone who jumps on then it just becomes a thing. Puppy jumps on. You jump on. Agar jumps on and now there's four votes and I have no idea why. Every one of those votes rubbed me the wrong way. While I seriously doubt that's a wagon of four scum, I'd be absolutely shocked if it wasn't at least 1-2, especially involving hoopla who I'd otherwise been townreading. Even llamarble didn't add anything when he voted. So five votes and zero stated reasons.

weren't most of hoopla's votes part of RVS though? and not actually a real honest to god wagon with a push behind it?

[xRECKONERx]

one day llamarble will explain why he keeps putting me in scum groups without a single read on me! one day.

the only explanation given thus far is "oh well it's probably one of the like five people i can't read and reck fits about as well as anyone"

then

"im most scared of reck or hoopla as scum"

which like, for early game, sure, go off gut or whatever, knock yourself out

but that directly flies in the face of marble's insistence that he's "trying to solve the game D1"?

you don't put on a masterclass and solve a game D1 by using wishy-washy bullshit on page 15 to solidify your theoretical scumteam

[xRECKONERx]

AGAR please let me know what you think of Morning Tweet in 20 words or less thanks

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: Blair

I'm still not liking that policy push.

Sorry, which policy push from Blair? The game is a bit of a haze.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah UT is probably scum but he promised not to NK me until at least Day 3 so I'll just go after him then nbd

[xRECKONERx]

meta is fucking garbage

now you're def scum

[xRECKONERx]

why do i have a kodak moment banner

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: Blair

I'm still not liking that policy push.

Sorry, which policy push from Blair? The game is a bit of a haze.

The whole thing about voting IAUN for only having 2 posts, but simultaneously ignoring UT and AGar. All 3 have less posts than the mod, but it's still early Day 1-ish, so I don't get it.

Ah I see. I don't think it was policy, I saw it as a pressure vote?

Vote the people not contributing until they contribute or die, idk, seems pretty okay to me

[xRECKONERx]

Starbuck is always scummy in my experience. I think you guys are getting a false positive.

SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MY TELL. THANK GOD.

bad look fam

[xRECKONERx]

Starbuck is always scummy in my experience. I think you guys are getting a false positive.

SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MY TELL. THANK GOD.

bad look fam

Das all you got from your last post to here?

i skimmed it all but i really dont recall anything fun or exciting other than the starbuck wagon happening and me wanting to ignore it for now

[xRECKONERx]

I'm having a hard time finding anything to focus on in this game. Can someone offer me some direction in terms of post to read that are especially scummy (inb4 this post). I want to contribute but every time I start reading my eyes cross and I lose consciousness. I just don't even really know where to start

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the starbuck/blair dispute, and then separately your thoughts about VP Baltar votes (both the voters and the votee).


(This is the homework I've given myself, but I haven't done it yet.)

i actually want to comment on this bc i havent really given it attention

my gut read on starbuck vs blair is that starbuck legitimately viewed blair as pushing a policy lynch just bc of misunderstanding the intent of blair's vote

however, i don't think that makes starbuck scum. i think starbuck hasnt played in forever and just misread a situation, it's pretty simple.

blair's righteous anger at this is the key here. while she has reason to want starbuck gone for putting words in her mouth, some of it just feels a little manufactured? like, i dunno, starbuck seems to have realized it was a misrep and walked it back somewhat. but blair's still pushing it as if that's a reason to lynch starbuck.

i mean... what exactly is scum!Starbuck's play there? "intentionally lie about blair to push a day 1 lynch in a way that will easily be seen as a lie and called out"? it just doesn't make sense to me, i cannot see the scum motivation behind it. if it wasn't intentional, it was a mistake -- which is completely not alignment indicative. scum or town could make the same mistake in that situation.

the main rub is whether blair is righteously angry as town and thinks she has caught scumBuck (which, @Blair, i'd love to hear more about what you think SB's scum motivations are)... or blair is taking a mistake from a townie and using it to shove a wagon back onto her. either way, i don't believe they're scum together.

[xRECKONERx]

Hoopla and Reck are very difficult to lynch as either alignment.

well, for whatever it's worth, i'm not living long in this game because scum know something specific about me.

[xRECKONERx]

i suppose being coy adds nothing. i received a piece of game information in my role PM. i was also told that the mafia were aware that i know a piece of information about the game. i assume that will put a target on my head.

[xRECKONERx]

How do I sort the activity in this game by player? Didn't there used to be a report?

activity overview, bottom corner of the page

the main rub is whether blair is righteously angry as town and thinks she has caught scumBuck (which, @Blair, i'd love to hear more about what you think SB's scum motivations are)

I've already answered this.

I don't believe Starbuck's plan was to lynch me. I believe Starbuck plucked something out of context that she felt she could plausibly scumread to push a vanity wagon.

She could do that as town, I guess, but I sort of assumed a higher level of play in this game. The thought process behind it for me is that if you are genuinely scumhunting, you would take the time to read my actual IAAU vote post before voting for me based on an easily corrected misinterpretation.

I wasn't supplying a grand, phase-long conspiratorial motive for it - just that she was trying to jump into the thread and look like she was genuinely scumhunting without actually exerting the effort.

hmm okay, fair.

i think i'm sympathetic towards latching onto something that pings you and running with it. i tend to play like a dog who's found a bone and won't let go unless that one thing is proven wrong or a bigger, juicier bone comes along? idk ive just been there.

so the scum motivation is basically not efforting enough, and you think town would be more likely to effort? is that it?

[xRECKONERx]

They JUST know that I know *something*. They don't know what exactly I know.

[xRECKONERx]

I assume the potential infinite possibilities of what I *could* know makes me dangerous to them.

[xRECKONERx]

But I think most townies who believe "She appears to be voting for IAAU on policy" would also think "Let's check her original reason for voting."

To not do so suggests a real lack of interest in whether or not your argument has merit.

I disagree. Voting for someone on policy is not unbelievable at all. If there

was

something that didn't feel right about it, sure, someone would investigate.

These "lurker policy pushes" happen all the time from either alignment. I don't think most townies would double check. On the contrary, I'm sure that's pretty rare for town.

Yeah I'm with Auro on this honestly. But I'm also a lazy fucko and don't scroll up.

[xRECKONERx]

I have a lot of respect for Reck as a scumhunter and as a scum, so my default guess is Reck catches UT, UT might miss Reck.

that respect has been misplaced for about 5-6 years bud

the days of 2011 "solve the game on page 5" reck have long since been dead and buried

people have tried to get me mislynched for that before

[xRECKONERx]

abr i dont think u have earned that ego tbh

[xRECKONERx]

I have always been a better player than you at your prime, don't be jealous

[xRECKONERx]

hoopla do you have scumreads instead of just townreads

[xRECKONERx]

to be honest,

uh oh

ok legit before you quoted this i was going to call it out bc honestly CLAP has been pinging me as weird for a hot minute now and i havent been able to put my thumb on it

note to self to do an iso dive and figure out what posts left that stink in my brain

[xRECKONERx]

ive got good money on iaaun flaking

[xRECKONERx]

guys yall put in 9 fucking pages overnight are you goddamn serious

i was going to chime in right now but im prepping for D&D and this is going to require way more dedicating than i want right now, so. coming later.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't like that the wagon is rooted in ABR's desire to look like he's the one in charge of the town and the rah-rah bullshit that follows and IAAUN's straight desire to counter the Auro wagon.

The 2 lynches I helped engineer are Auro and VP Baltar, sir. Either way this goes, I am the driving force in this game.

Do you have a mute button?

Does your pointless ego ever run out of battery?

this is some tea tho

[xRECKONERx]

It's easy to be reasonable. You don't have people like AGar up your ass. You appease everyone. People feel bad voting you out.

What I'm interested in, is what do you believe that no one else believes? If you stand alone, what do you stand for?

If I'm scum, the way I would look at this game is who do I have to lynch and NK to achieve my win condition?

Hard to lynch: Albert B. Rampage, Untrod Tripod, farside22, Llamarble, Hoopla, Reck, Morning Tweet, Auro, VP Baltar
Would have difficulty climbing out of pressure: Blair, Green Crayons, Porkens
Would self-destruct under pressure: iamausername, Kmd4390, Starbuck, AGar, CantLynchAPuppy

I can't be lynched day 1 if I'm invested, I'm too strong and aggressive; Reck has a similar playstyle. I look around, and there's other really tough lynches for scum.

MT, Farside, and Blair tend to obvtown over time and easily become unlynchable.

Scum basically have 3 strategies they can use:

1) Going for low hanging fruit. Short term gain, safe option.
2) Go for the middle-of-the-road players to keep the easy mislynches for deeper into the game when they really need it.
3) If they feel extremely confident in their position, they can tunnel on the hard to lynch players while town runs up townies, stay out of the action, and only join the mislynch deep into the game if they have to save a buddy or can take out a threat to them.

I will now explain my counter-strategies. I think that going for an easy mislynch today is a waste. This lines me up in parallel with scum's 2nd and 3rd strategies.

I need the usual ingredients to best cook for you my game-winning solve: pressure, vote consolidation, and danger of reaching an early lynch.

If we run up a few hard to lynch players and gain precious information, we can draw out enough connections to set us up for successful subsequent days.

this is actually maybe your only great post so far this game because breaking it down into who scum would feel comfortable going after makes a lot of sense

[xRECKONERx]

RECKONER, When did Starbuck go from scummy to towny for you?

starbuck was never scummy and is not currently townie from my pov. mostly null. has points on both sides. ive never said she was scum/town either so im not really sure where this came from

[xRECKONERx]

I'm fairly convinced that if we pick not Baltar / Auro it should be one of MT UT IAAU CLAP in approximately that order of preference.

Blair what do you think of MT?

not exactly agreeing on the order but i think that's a solid pool

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: CLAP

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Porkens

ill take the 50/50

[xRECKONERx]

Pod, I dig all of that, but that "big play" never pays off in any universe. I'm not trying to be difficult, just say in your own words, IF IM TOWN, what was I doing and why, just as I've stated it? You don't have to believe it, just articulate it, please, so I know I've made myself understood.

at the risk of feeling like im using meta, my experience with you as a player makes me believe that you would lackadaisically hammer and feign disinterest/accident/not paying attention as scum

[xRECKONERx]

actually.

VOTE: farside22 imo

[xRECKONERx]

ugh i literally don't care which of them it is but im a sucker for AtE and when i did an iso skim on farside something pinged me as being kinda careful/cautious

like the way she absolutely refuses to engage in any direction with me early on
the push on hoopla is bad (and weirdly, she and pork both engaged on that at the same time)

although farside does vote Auro pretty early

but there's so much fuzziness like saying she's not latching onto anything this game while simultaneously pushing Auro out there. or calling out UT for "sheeping" then immediately walking it back.

anyway it literally doesn't matter, we lynch one, if they flip town, we lynch the other

[xRECKONERx]

it should be obvious that any investigative roles should be on pork/starbuck tonight

what

Sorry, let me include context:

VOTE: farside

if starbuck is scum getting two mislynches in, it'd be nice to know tomorrow instead of waiting through two mislynches. (though i hope farside just flips scum)

counterpoint:

if starbuck is scum and we are already lynching incorrectly one time ill take the other flip for a surefire scumflip on starbuck and let investigatives do something actually useful tonight?????

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Porkens

[xRECKONERx]

i don't know one of you is scum it could be either of you i don't really care either way

i do think your first line is wifom and your second line is self meta so i dont feel swayed

[xRECKONERx]

In your view I fought against the leading wagon, trying to get ABR lynched, which was an impossibility, and quickhammered because I was counting on the wifom to look town. Wouldnt it have looked more town to just keep my fucking mouth shut when I was townread?

As for self meta, can you say with a straight face that you read it with any attention? I explained in detail my thought process and my emotional state. That is not self meta. I talked about my meta but I was not saying at any point “this is what I always do let me get away with it”. I y’all you step by step through why I did what I did. Read it carefully and tell me you think I could make that up.

for the first point, yes, it would have looked more town to shut up. you claiming now abr lynch was "impossible" is hindsight. you know sometimes, scum make plays and they don't work out. that's the beauty of calling people out for shady behavior?

to the second point... yes, i think you could make that up. anyone can make up AtE and explain thought processes

again i don't fucking care which of you/farside go today really

[xRECKONERx]

i believe starbuck's specific fullclaim because reasons

don't waste an investigation there check someone else

or how about if we have a detective or something we don't out them for no reason that seems good

im going to beat UT to it because fuck UT

VOTE: farside

[xRECKONERx]

and yes, moving forward, gonna try not to use "lynch"

[xRECKONERx]

CLAP or Gamma

this tbh

[xRECKONERx]

CLAP or Gamma

this tbh

what happened to you coming after me today

it has been delayed due to COVID-19

[xRECKONERx]

that's a compelling argument hoopla

[xRECKONERx]

i can read CLAP's iso and point out posts that feel weird to me if u want

[xRECKONERx]

ok the clap iso will happen when im not drunk

[xRECKONERx]

i cannot imagine this is cult

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler: THE CLAP ISO (i drank 3 glasses of wine during this)

Hoopla I'll unvote u if u form an alliance with me

pandering and we already went over the whole alliance thing from d1 but it just seems like a weird proposition to make [note: not scum WITH hoopla]

also im not gonna quote it all here but like it takes until post 216 for CLAP to give an actual opinion on the game

i'd be fine lynching green crayons

every leader needs a first follower right?

VOTE: green crayons

shows support for a wagon, followed by people showing interest, then steps out to get the wagon going [note: no reasons stated for wagon thus far]

vpb feels a lot more unguarded than his last scum game, feels a lot more unfiltered, minor town read

first actual read with reasons and it's just soft meta (trash) with a "minor" town read?
no scumhunting yet.

but your vote on blair didn't come with any questions either

This is true. My RVS vote on Reck was stale and it was time to switch it up. Does that make me hypocritical? I probably should have just FOS'd, tbh.

Reading Blair in ISO shortly after, though, actually confirmed for me that my vote is where it should be right now, so I'm pretty ok with that.

all right, looking at your back and forth with blair, i think you're being inconsistent, but inconsistent in a town way

definitely don't argree that going "full bore" on someone with two posts is a bad thing, isn't driving a wagon a good way to get more out of someone?

this is a nothingburger. after a big back and forth w/ starbuck the conclusion is "you're inconsistent but town" which i do not understand. im just not connecting the dots from A to B here with CLAP

i don't mean this in a rude way. would you call yourself a stubborn person? or more light-hearted? i just want to get a picture of how to read you right

I feel I'm more lighthearted, but any interaction with me seems to be taken much more seriously than I intend when I'm just responding. Words like her "outrage" or folks assuming that I feel attacked feel so out of place because I'm not feeling that way. I'm trying to figure out where heads are at or why they think that of me as town, or if they really are scum and are just trying to push a mislynch. I just don't get the hostility behind it.

I don't know if folks are pushing buttons on purpose because I'll admit when I was here ages ago, I was probably more of a toxic player sometimes and I don't want to be that. I just want to play the game and enjoy because at the end of the day, it's just a game. If I die, I die. I'll make mistakes. I'll misread shit sometimes. Welcome to mafia!

thanks, this helps

this feels like empty posturing around starbuck. asks for self-meta. is given self-meta. and the end result is "thanks this helps". like this wasn't an attempt to solve anyone and whether someone is lighthearted or not seems irrelevant to whether they're scum PLUUUUUUS it's self-meta which is like double trash on top of trash

i just have a hard time believing SB's answer to this question actually gave CLAP anything insightful

i don't really like the vpb wagon, but i kind of agree that it's the game phase where it's time to consolidate, at least for now. I have vpb for town so I'll take the other option:

VOTE: auro

mild townread on abr for his annoying, incessent spam about how we need to vote one wagon or another. it's townie to be a little pushy here and, tbh, i think he's right that the old wagons are dead and was looking for where i'd put my vote next anyways

i dont really know how to explain this one
it's a vote on a flipped scum but it's more like "rock and a hard place ill take auro" and then there's no actual read on the gamestate or WHY auro over vpb other than weak meta CLAP has restated twice.
there's no actual attempt to drive the wagon and CLAP creates a false dichotomy between vpb/auro here. tactical bus?

I KNOW THIS ISN'T ACTUALLY A TELL but more than once CLAP has started posts with "to be honest" which i still believe may be a subliminal scum thing but don't weigh that really bc it's a dumb theory im convinced to prove one day

UNVOTE:

im not feeling any of these wagons right now, i need to step back and look at my options. auro in the last page or two doesn't really feel scummy to me, he just seems like someone defending a misreading of his posts that other people have decided is scummy for sort of meta reasons

sees an opportunity to hop off of auro. if CLAP was bussing then this is the right moment to hop off and hope momentum builds elsewhere while still getting :townpoints: for voting auro

See this is why I don't write motherfucking cases or try to explain my vote.

When I do, it brings the bandwagon to a grinding halt as people's biases and false references cloud their judgment and they hesitate.

When I say, look at the iso and find your own reasons to vote them, they try and try to find a reason, wind up seeing something new if not the exact thing I saw, and then they vote for the player I want.

There are a multitude of tells, and the one I use may not be the one someone else finds, but in the end, it doesn't matter as long as we win.

Vote VP Baltar guys. Let's go. We don't need 80 pages to end day 1.

1) He's desperately trying to look town and willing to make big posts calling out some people as town and some as scummy (he says I'm NAI in the big post, later says he doesn't like that I am rolefishing Reck). MT says this is town but it seems incredibly pre-planned to me so I think she's the scumbuddy.

none of these points really convince me, but this one seems especially bad, i don't get what's inconsistent about calling you null but also saying he doesn't like one specific thing you're doing

He's trying extremely hard to look town, that's what this is. Harder than you, harder than me, harder than any town ought to try.

uh, that's an interesting theory of mafia. not sure i agree but does it really matter?

thinking some more the auro case doesn't hit right, i don't agree that lots of low-effort posts mean scum or that his posts are particularly low-effort. but of all the major cases presented so far (vpb, blair), the one on auro is "least wrong" imo

soft defense of auro re: abr's push

hoo boy, this is going to be a hot take because no one asked for it and im not going to really explain it beyond "gut feeling"

but im thinking 2/4 scum in this group: [ llamarble, farside22, reck, kmd ]

thought goes like this: day reads to me like lots of town infighting, main wagons town (vpb, auro), some of the bigger drivers (blair, abr, gc) don't feel like scum drivers. so im kind of looking for players who are skirting around the main wagons and main discussions and that's what i feel at least. (actually llamarble is 3rd most active player which surprised me because i don't remember much of what he has said / done all game, this is probably the first iso ill do when i get around to that stage)

so we know that farside flipped scum, i know im town, idk about kmd or llamarble

but maybe bigger !?!?!?!?!? is that CLAP *knew* there were 4 scum before hoopla revealed her information.

putting one buddy in a scum group is already a pretty common scum tactic! on top of this she calls auro town. it's pretty easy -- farside had no pressure, so toss her in the scum pile for easy points, while still soft defending auro. btw if CLAP is scum im treating kmd & llamarble as conftown here.

all right, blair makes me brave, i don't want to keep holding my vote, ill try this wagon

VOTE: albert b rampage

finally, commits to ABR over Auro

DAY TWO HAPPENS!

He seemed p. right about Auro from what I've read up to so far - what was he wrong about? (aside from his Reck thoughts, Reck being lazier than his former self is a truth he was unaware of)

Well he was clearly wrong about me for starters and contributed to that uphill fight for Auro for some time.

I also recall he was scum reading puppy, which I found myself disagreeing with.

I think the whole "solve the entire game" approach to D1 was counterproductive and contributed to a bloated D1. But hey, pobody's nerfect

this post screams town imo, that plus the fact he was run up yesterday to me means VPB is basically town

i thought his MT case was good too, i want to go back and look at all the posts he pointed out and see if i actually agree with it. MT's entrance this page was fairly good too, so sorting out a read here is my homework

porkens looks town to me, i had that thought yesterday before reading the flip and again after. auro's scum theater was so over the top that i don't think it comes from scum v scum, if porkens was scum with auro it would have been way easier to do just about anything else

i didnt quote it but CLAP opens the day by voting IAAUN saying he seems like "the most likely non-auro voter to be scum"
so then CLAP goes right back to defending VPB, which, that was the bulk of the D1 posts i didnt quote. it's like incessant how hard CLAP wants everyone to know they believe VPB to be town. all on meta. over and over.

hoopla, maybe this isn't a question uve researched but since uve talked about research

any thoughts on when scum is most likely to hop on a bus? L-1? L-2? hammer? i guess it kinda doesn't matter, but i'm trying to figure out how much the auro wagon has scum and how much the off wagons have scum

questioning hoopla about mafia theory while

still not explaining the IAAUN vote

VOTE: farside

it should be obvious that any investigative roles should be on pork/starbuck tonight

CLAP already spent a lot of time defending porkens so to 180 to flip on him wouldve been really transparent. after not bussing D1 i think once Starbuck's info was public it's very likely scum decided to cut their losses and get the bus credit. in the meantime, tries to waste town investigative powers by getting inv roles on porkens (who died)

TLDR

D1, CLAP tries to seem like a town leader by being willing to get the wagon started on GC early
parks a vote on Auro for the townpoints later before finding a convenient opportunity to hop off the wagon
throws out a readslist apropros of nothing that just so happens to call auro town and farside scum when there was no pressure on farside
when push comes to shove, CLAP supports the town counterwagon to Auro
D2, CLAP comes out hot for IAAUN without ever stating why
once SB claims, after CLAP has already called Porkens town, she jumps on the farside wagon (who was already in her scumlist D1) bc there's no easy other options

the other part of this i cant parse is that CLAP has spent a majority of their posts constantly defending Blair and VPB. im guessing it's a familiarity thing in some way, but hasn't done anything outside of that to try to read anyone. in fact, CLAP just keeps restating the same defenses of Blair and VPB over and over again.

but not a single attempt seems to have been made to scumhunt.

the vote on farside was a 50/50 predicated by previous porkens reads and still CLAP has no actual scumreads outside of stating that IAAUN was "most likely non-Auro voter to be scum" without any reasoning.

nothing on AGar
nothing on GC after starting the GC wagon D1 and never giving a reason for it
nothing on Hoopla
nothing on kmd despite putting kmd in the scumlist D1
nothing on MT
nothing on UT
nothing on me

to me it feels like CLAP found early reasoning to defend blair & vpb and then decided to just lock onto those two in order to contribute CONTENT to the game but hasn't actually done anything super credible. it feels like scum coasting.

[xRECKONERx]

the iso dive i did basically shows me a compelling case for CLAP to be scum but also wasn't as slam dunk in my gut as i hoped so i will leave my vote on VOTE: CLAP for now but am also keeping my eyes open for things that might ping me more

i should really just duo-iso both auro & farside but auro spamposted and that seems like a pain in the ass and now im very deep in my drunk so i will not do it

[xRECKONERx]

I KNOW THIS ISN'T ACTUALLY A TELL but more than once CLAP has started posts with "to be honest" which i still believe may be a subliminal scum thing but don't weigh that really bc it's a dumb theory im convinced to prove one day

i go out of my way to not say this as scum sometimes because i know it inevitably gets brought up at least once per game. whereas it's just a normal part of my vocabulary i wouldnt think about as town

that's not intended as a debunk to your case i just had to say it

I think your points about a lot of Puppys early game being substanceless are fair enough. I can confirm soft defending Auro doesn't make one scum by default -- it seems to be a trend among the newer players actually doesnt it

the point about puppy knowing there are 4 scum since he said "2/4 in this group are scum" seems like a stretch to me. I have been assuming there were 4 scum all game anyway. Although i didn't really consider 3p

And the swap to ABR almost looks good to me. kinda. Probably in a WIFOMy way i guess -- it seems like a bad move to do as scum, something that is so blatantly obviously going to get pointed out later in the game (even had Auro not been lynched that day). It felt like Auro was going to die eventually, going out of your way to try and save him in a really obvious manner is just terrible

I think your point about Puppy wanting everyone to know he knew VP was always town is actually a really good one. It seemed unnecessary to point out that VP is town (1331), it seemed pretty obvious by that point, he could potentially have been trying to highlight he knew it all along. I still could explain this by town!Puppy possibly not realizing we'd all be on the same page there, but it is suspicious for sure

i really do not think Puppy was trying to bait us into wasting investigatives in 1400. That just seems like a terrible idea as scum, if he'd have thought twice (which i'd think he'd do as scum), he could have easily thought better of that request. rather it feels like town making a mistake to me (since he described it as so obvious)

most of your points fall into "too scummy to be scum" so

yeah

[xRECKONERx]

UT im lynching you tomorrow FYI

[xRECKONERx]

could reck/farside both be so crafty?

no

also good catch bc if farside actually had a revelation that means everyone else who has one is town per the ruleset

[xRECKONERx]

i have reread my drunk iso of CLAP and no longer think it's good

UNVOTE

[xRECKONERx]

I don’t remember scoffing but I’ve been known to do it.

Including your theory requires a big gambit from Starbuck (offering up farside buddy) and Reck (who has confirmed Starbuck as town).

It’s a really bad theory.

uh what i haven't confirmed starbuck as town

[xRECKONERx]

the insistence that reacting poorly to the idea of trying to get investigatives on starbuck is somehow scummy is just buck wild to me

we have a whole chunk of this game that isn't sorted that a inv check would be fantastic to help us sort out. instead people wanted to focus in one starbuck/porkens/farside, which was going to resolve itself anyway? oh look, farside flipped scum, porkens is dead. i get the paranoia of wHaT iF sTaRbUcK wAs LyInG but honestly that'll have to sort itself out later and i'm way more inclined to believe SB is town for now rather than get tunnel visioned on one tiny corner of the game

[xRECKONERx]

i believe starbuck's specific fullclaim because reasons

don't waste an investigation there check someone else

or how about if we have a detective or something we don't out them for no reason that seems good

im going to beat UT to it because fuck UT

VOTE: farside

fyi in terms of Reck’s revelation

oh no the reason i believed her is not because i cleared her???? and i didnt imply that
it has to do with something that seems sort of close to "quoting a role pm" so im not going to do it

[xRECKONERx]

I’m not sure what else we were supposed to interpret “reasons” to be. Wouldn’t have guessed some sort of role pm verbiage in a million years.


But now you’re saying you don’t think she’s clear?

she's not mechanically clear, i didnt clear her via mechanics

i cleared her bc the way she claimed and specific things she said made me believe her revelation claim. i can absolutely elaborate more but it would force me to full claim my role

[xRECKONERx]

i didnt take that as hoopla calling you scum together

[xRECKONERx]

ngl idg the kmd votes

explain

[xRECKONERx]

is being disengaged a scumtell?

[xRECKONERx]

i'm just asking a question

he's got weak reads, and i would assume that could be a factor of being disengaged
yes his catch ups are weak but to me it sounds like someone who is just...not engaged with the game

you're right he's not engaged and his posts are trash but i dont think that necessarily means scum?

[xRECKONERx]

In fact


1) AGar - prob town
4) Blair - maybe scum
5) CantLynchAPuppy - maybe scum
7) Green Crayons - town
8) Hoopla - town
9) iamausername - town
10) Kmd4390 - maybe scum
11) Gammagooey (replacing Llamarble N1) - town
12) Morning Tweet - i guess maybe scum
14) Starbuck - town
15) Untrod Tripod - prob town
16) VP Baltar - town
17) xRECKONERx - town


If we just lynched Blair, CLAP, Kmd, and MT--in, maybe Kmd, MT, Blair, CLAP order--then we'd probably win.

this feels like a very lazy solve. it's like "oh if we just lynch the top four people who have had suspicion on them the most in the game we will win"

[xRECKONERx]

@Gamma read me please & ty

[xRECKONERx]

i literally do not know who to vote. the case on kmd isn't compelling to me. iama is striking me as town. i have no more strong feelings on CLAP. and if i fucking vote off of that ill just get called a "vanity voter"

for some reason i do think my preference right now is to VOTE: Green Crayon and after that i'd probably vote iama simply because the kmd wagon feels lazy and low effort

[xRECKONERx]

very interesting. perversely, i kind of believe it.

claim the results.

if he's scum, he could get caught out by claiming someone went nowhere, when they in fact did.

this

[xRECKONERx]

me coming back to this thread like

[xRECKONERx]

here's an idea
trackers all track each other and we fuck it yolo yeet someone who isn't a claimed tracker

[xRECKONERx]

sure why not

VOTE: chkflip i guess

also my reason for wanting a trackertriangle is:
1. if there's scum in there...
.....A: they have to keep tracking people instead of killing to keep up their claim and not get caught
.....B: scum are forced to kill a tracker instead of a higher priority target, which further narrows the lynch pool and sorts the tracker situation for us
2. if there's no scum in there...
.....A: scum have to deal w/ potentially three conftown at the end of the game with only two scum left if they don't kill them
.....B: or scum have to kill off the trackers which lets other potential PRs get some cover to do work

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah I'm pretty great

still yeeting u tmw btw

[xRECKONERx]

yup

[xRECKONERx]

yup

You understand that makes no fucking sense right?

YoU uNdErStAnD tHaT mAkEs No FuCkInG sEnSe RiGhT?

that's how u sound

[xRECKONERx]

Oh yeah, I meant to throw a vote on that bottom catch up.

UNVOTE: Blair
VOTE: Auro

This is a bus.

Vote: Porkens

I didn't like that push of an ABR wagon at the end of the day.

This person died N2.

I wonder why.

because they were confirmed town by starbuck's role.

[xRECKONERx]

fwiw i dont know if chk is actually scum flailing here but i think this slot being gone will unclog some things we need unclogged so /shrug

[xRECKONERx]

what is fucking happening

[xRECKONERx]

trackers go

[xRECKONERx]

pls

[xRECKONERx]

actually wait for kmd tbh

[xRECKONERx]

If we VOTE: Vi then I think the randomness stops which is kind of bad for us maybe? But also good for us.

Also those tracker results are all highly suspect.

[xRECKONERx]

Also those tracker results are all highly suspect.

Which ones and why.

I mean, the chances of two trackers both tracking me and the other trackers tracking each other to form a perfect confirmation loop just seems way too serendipitous

[xRECKONERx]

@Mod: Would a player using an action that gets roleblocked be shown as visiting someone?

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, did I miss the extent of your revelation? For some reason I have it in my head that you had some info we don't know yet.

no, you didn't miss anything

[xRECKONERx]

and for what it's worth i will not be fullclaiming my revelation at any point outside of ylo (what are we even calling lylo now) because fullclaiming my revelation would be inherently anti-town

[xRECKONERx]

anyways, now that the setup spec is all out there i think three things need to happen:

1) discuss massclaim (i'm in favor)

2) discuss tracker targets. i would appreciate trackers tonight targeting players who haven't been visited by any trackers yet. arguments welcome.

3) get back to work. i think the setup is designed to have all these red herrings that ultimately go null, which means we're can't waste too much time hoping the game will solve itself for us. so

VOTE: Reck

i think he's been hanging back during this tracker / setup stuff, in a kind of safe way, and i think he's been on the wrong side of all the wagons so far

i mean i literally didn't want to lynch any of the trackers y/day and the most engaged ive been has been w/ tracker stuff but u do u fam

[xRECKONERx]

also im not claiming my revelation, doing so would be anti-town, scum already know that i know ~something~ so i'm leaving it at that. u wanna mislynch me that's fine, go ahead

[xRECKONERx]

@Mod: Would a player using an action that gets roleblocked be shown as visiting someone?

[xRECKONERx]

That doesn't answer my question. Some versions of roleblocker stop the ability from succeeding but still show a visit, others straight up don't show the visit. I assume the latter is more common but I'm asking for clarification.

[xRECKONERx]

also im not claiming my revelation, doing so would be anti-town, scum already know that i know ~something~ so i'm leaving it at that. u wanna mislynch me that's fine, go ahead

To be fair, you know who else wouldn't reveal their revelation because it was anti-town? Farside.

You ain't winning me here. Lay it out.

that's fine, vote me then.

also only one scum has a revelation and farside flipped scum so...

[xRECKONERx]

also im not claiming my revelation, doing so would be anti-town, scum already know that i know ~something~ so i'm leaving it at that. u wanna mislynch me that's fine, go ahead

Just so we can keep this claim train moving, you're claiming VT with a revelation, right?

Also, don't you think the odds are greater you'll be dead before LyLo, even if puppy's theory of random kills is correct?

yep. i'm VT.

this is why i believed Starbuck, bc she claimed a revelation AND claimed VT at the same time. which, to me, is a leap i dont know scum would know to make? like even as town, i was like, "ok so i'm VT but i do have information" and i don't know scum would connect the dots immediately like that. "im VT with a revelation" specifically pinged me as something that rang more likely to be truly from a VT with a revelation rather than scum making up a fakeclaim.

and yes, if it's random kills, i'm likely dead before xylo anyway. if it's not random kills, i don't know, scum could be playing mega mindgames trying to leave me alive hoping to force me to claim what my info is

[xRECKONERx]

absolutely 100%. it's the nature of the info specifically. y'all are free to lynch me if that's where majority feels comfortable, i know i've been aloof and disengaged. i don't have any strong scum reads, though tbh i don't think anyone does. but i'm just saying ahead of time if a wagon gets started on me, don't expect me to drop my info to get pressure off of me. it's better if i die with it.

[xRECKONERx]

He's saying he has information that isn't particularly helpful to town, but would be helpful to scum, as I understand it.

this, sort of

it's more that the power from my information comes from scum not knowing it. the second it is public, it is useless.

lynch away then

[xRECKONERx]

The implication that Reck cannot be scum because he has a revelation when Farside was the scum with a revelation.

We don't actually know if Farside had a revelation or not, and we don't really know if Reck has one, either. The latter doesn't really apply to his own internal logic, of course, but the former certainly does.

i mean i 100% believe farside had a revelation and was claiming it truthfully

[xRECKONERx]

Does the info confirm you as town?

nope.

1) would it be negative for town if this revelation was lost forever with your death

2) do you have any counter wagons or alternatives besides "yeah go ahead and vote me if you want"

1) nope

2) anything i try to muster up right now would be me forcing a read out of nothing. like i said, nobody has anything particularly scummy sticking out to me.
it appears that scum probably went with a powerbus on Auro, which makes it even harder to get. i think that gamma is saved by marble's play alone. like seriously of the only people not on the auro lynch, you've got:

me- town
iaaun- flipped town
auro- flipped scum
tweet/chkflip- flipped town
clap- probably town or scum playing extremely well to the point where i dont think i can catch it
gamma/marble- ehhh?? marble was super town looking and gamma has been meh? but i cant point to anything specifically scummy tbh other than night action choice
blair- i had bad feelings on blair early on especially with the hard push on starbuck, but does being wrong mean someone is scum? no
kmd- maybe scum but i do believe the tracker claim

to me id be willing to bet the farm that scum AT LEAST double bussed auro, if not triple bussed. if the rest of the non-auro voters were all town, then it makes it pretty simple to start shoving lynches that direction for being on the wrong side of the vote, and presents a striking bussing opportunity.

of the people on the auro wagon, we've got vpb/agar/gc/starbuck/hoopla/ut left. porkens was town, farside was scum.
of this list, i really believe that starbuck had a revelation, and i also believe farside did too and was trying to use her revelation to get put in town pools, but was being truthful about having one. that would make starbuck town.
i still have big town vibes from vpb, plus he was the auro counterwagon, so unless scum all decided "let's all bus the fuck out of auro to buy vpb some permanent town credibility" he seems like an unlikely candidate

that leaves me with agar/gc/hoopla/ut. honestly the back of my mind is screaming at me not to fall prey to the ut/agar scumpair, but that's probably a healthy dose of personal bias more than anything. ive been memeing about eventually voting ut, but i have to admit... it's tempting. he made some comment about this, h/o

Yeah I'm pretty great

still yeeting u tmw btw

So let's say hypothetically we yeet MT and they flip scum

You're going to yeet me because I'm clearly bussing all my buddies? And I didn't take the opportunity to hammer a town tracker?

and it's like... you know, if scum did decide to whole hog bus the ever loving shit out of auro for credit, this is exactly the play to make. boast loudly about your play and gain town points for "not hammering a town tracker". i think that's why it sits so weird with me. but it's a lot of paranoia and conspiracy theories on my part to believe it's 100% true

hoopla struck me as town with some goodposting early on in the game, making insights i never would've made. i can't recall anything top of mind to make me think she would be scum though.

gc and agar are both part of this fucking weird tracker solve situation and i dont know what to make of it. between the two, id rather lynch gc.

[xRECKONERx]

^^^ That is what I needed. I'm not voting Reck today.

WHAT did u need exactly

[xRECKONERx]

i am personally down to vote anyone who doesn't list me as one of their favorite scummers.

getting town vibes from farside the strongest so far. hoopla is a mystery to me. i like hoopla's posts but... that doesn't mean anything alignment related.

MT has pinged me mostly on gut but i cant tell if that's bias against her posting style

@starbuck: what are you hoping to gain asking people a bunch of non game related questions

Hey Reck, can you point at the posts from farside that gave you town vibes early game if you remember 'em for me?

idk if i can point to specific posts without an iso dive to refresh myself, but i do remember the general vibe of being she was taking some stances and putting opinions out there without being prompted as well as pushing back on other people about their opinions and it felt pretty bold for a scum game on D1 compared to the wallpaper of the rest of the game

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: blair

claim please.

VOTE: blair

ill try this on for a moment.

@reck

, i thought we were doing a popcorn massclaim, did you want to pass the baton

no i think massclaim is stupid

[xRECKONERx]

^^^ That is what I needed. I'm not voting Reck today.

WHAT did u need exactly

You to not be so dejected.

hello darling that entire post was written from dejection city population me

[xRECKONERx]

so if we assume 2 mafia trackers (which fucking honestly seems likely) then we're pretty evenly divided into:

one scum in {me/blair/clap/hoopla/starbuck/ut}
one scum in {agar/gc/kmd/gamma/vpb}

right?

[xRECKONERx]

i mean this game specifically but now that we have 6 trackers on the table i guess it really doesn't fucking matter that much bc this game is pants on head

[xRECKONERx]

so if we're thinking that then imo it makes more sense to lynch among the trackers bc it's a smaller pool and we can pseudo-clear the remaining trackers
and if we nail the scum, with 1 scum left, there's zero path to victory for them as long as two of the other trackers remain alive

[xRECKONERx]

I do think Reck's awkward revelation claim is worth pushing, and I also really hate VP's Tracker claim.

go ahead. i'm not claiming. that's where that goes. have fun.

[xRECKONERx]

I do think Reck's awkward revelation claim is worth pushing, and I also really hate VP's Tracker claim.

Both of these need deeper explanation

Re: Reck

• I don't like the way he suggested that Farside's claim to have had an unstated revelation somehow indicates that Reck's (also unstated) revelation must belong to a townie. We have no evidence of scum having lost their one revelatory player other than the words of dead scum.
  
• He's set himself up to never share his revelation until endgame.
  
• He claims his revelation would benefit scum if it were revealed, and that revealing his revelation to the town would not benefit the town. He says is stops being useful once it's revealed - which would indicate that it's really only useful to him, yes? Yet it doesn't seem to have resulted in Reck having a clearer understanding of the game state than anyone else.
  
• Why would a Townie receive a revelation that doesn't benefit the town and only helps scum if it's revealed?

because i think scum wouldn't just flat out lie about having a revelation. idk. the best lies are ones based on truth, and i think farside was telling the truth about having a revelation. i dont think she'd claim it umprompted.
yes, it would benefit scum. like i said -- part of my revelation is that

scum know that i know something about the game

.
if you think real hard about it you might figure out what i could know about the game that, when revealed, would remove its usefulness.
have you ever heard of negative utility?

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, why are you so confident farside was telling the truth about a revelation? It just read to me like a lie any scum could tell on threat of death. Plus, wouldn't all scum be privy to revealed info after talking with their buddies? Doesn't seem any kind of guarantee that alleged info (which was never given) actually originated with her.

i mean, sure

i am just speaking in terms of this playerlist. i think out of everyone here, as scum, i would rate me and blair as the two people most likely to have enough balls to do some risky "claim a revelation when you don't have one" gambit. and even then, if i was scum with a revelation, i'd just... claim i had one, because it's the truth, and it's way easier to play as scum when you tell the truth. i think in general town assume scum are making big bold lies and fakeclaims, etc, when i think the truth of the matter is much more subtle

[xRECKONERx]

like i understand we cannot confirm or deny whether farside really had a revelation and it's all speculation, totally aware of that. i just find it way way way more likely she actually had a revelation and was the One Scum Revelation rather than scum coming up with some really overly complex big strategy D1 to feed farside revelation info and fake out who has it all super early in the game? bc it was p early when she claimed it.

[xRECKONERx]

oh, and

@reck

: i was thinking about what your revelation could be and i thought i had a good guess. just answer this one question. does it involve the word "trigger"?

no

[xRECKONERx]

my revelation could be associated with the word "smoke"

that's all i'll say on it

[xRECKONERx]

rather than scum coming up with some really overly complex big strategy D1 to feed farside revelation info and fake out who has it all super early in the game?

Mafia PT

Scum A:

OK guys, I got a revelation along with my role! Here it is: [revelation]

Scum B:

Interesting!

Scum C:

Hey guys, how would you feel if I claimed I had that revelation instead? I won't actually say what it is, just that I have one (for now, at least).

Scum D:

Sounds good to me.

I'm not sure I'd characterize it as a "really overly complex big strategy."

what is the actual scum motivation to do any of this

[xRECKONERx]

what is the actual scum motivation to do any of this

Without knowing what their revelation actually is, it's difficult to speculate.

I'm just not willing to hang my hat on "There's no way scum would like about having a revelation."

i mean, my entire point isn't "there's no way scum would lie about having a revelation" just that i think it's far more likely they didn't lie?

and if you think i'm scum, then you're basically saying that farside lied about having a revelation that i actually have? or something? when i softclaimed my revelation really early as well

just saying it really doesn't make much sense

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: kmd

[xRECKONERx]

ugh no

VOTE: unvote

[xRECKONERx]

inb4 blair calls that posturing but like
writing down kmd's name legit had a physical feeling in my gut as i pressed submit. i dont know why. it feels like so much bait.

[xRECKONERx]

blair still has no actual reason to vote me

[xRECKONERx]

hit submit too soon


2288 looks like what scum might do to try to get some freeform thoughts down to tug at some town feelings for the reader. but overall, I'm not impressed with Reck suspicions.


What else you got?

I don't like his misrepresentation of Farside's revelation claim ("Farside claimed SO EARLY I doubt scum would have planned such a master plan since game start" - it wasn't early at all and Farside was already in a 1v1 to the death with Porkens).

His

"I'm not claiming my revelation, vote me if you want, I care not"

and

"I'll just make one last, valiant attempt at a solve before you vote me out"

posts also seem LAMIST.

i mean it was relatively early in the game. claiming a revelation bc someone else claimed you are in a 50/50 doesn't really do anything to stop the 50/50, i don't see how it's relevant

you're kinda misrepresenting my position here actually, like, my point has pretty much centered on the fact that it's easier for scum to play truthfully than it is to make up a lie for no reason. and yes, despite your assertions to the contrary, figuring out that the person with the actual revelation shouldn't claim it and instead give it to farside who was dead scum caught in a 50/50 with no escape... yeah, that's a bit more complex than simple fakeclaiming. why give the claim to farside when she's already dead in the water?

and regardless. the point is i believe farside had a revelation bc i think that's the most likely scenario and scum wouldn't want to lie that big that early imo. that's it. the rest is window dressing.

i'm not claiming my revelation, though i'm not sure how that's "look how town i am" and not suicidal to do if i'm scum? refusing to claim gets people killed pretty quickly.
to your second point... i was very fucking specifically asked for thoughts on the game. i even pointed out any real scumreads would be pulling myself out of my ass. how is that "making one last valiant attempt at a solve"? it was me admitting i dont have any strong conviction and doing some light vote count analysis

what fantasy world are you living in blair

[xRECKONERx]

also something is bugging me about starbuck's revelation but i can't put a finger on it. like the mod straight up just put a role in that nails scum for free? really? it's like even more powerful than a cop tbh.

[xRECKONERx]

@UT: this is why i cannot take you being town at face value
so far, after your placement on the auro wagon, you've popped in to be smug about the game and rest on your laurels

like you've had SOME presence of content but my dude it's mostly just calling other people's points dumb
or saying "i didnt like the case"
or giving empty reads
or making statements like this:

iamausername and UT make sense from this perspective

so you think that with two scum remaining I'm going to aggressively bus my remaining buddy with basically no prompting after having ignored him the rest of the game

this is your big spicy take

Yeah I'm pretty great

still yeeting u tmw btw

So let's say hypothetically we yeet MT and they flip scum

You're going to yeet me because I'm clearly bussing all my buddies? And I didn't take the opportunity to hammer a town tracker?

man imagine reading through this whole slog of mechanical bullshit and coming to the conclusion that the one person who you need to yeet is one of the ONLY slots who won't clear anything up by flipping as either alignment

that's a real commitment to not solving the game

you have some good posts that keep me from going whole hog on you here and there's a shred of attempting to solve the game
but anytime anyone dares to push in your direction you just shut it down with snark and sarcasm.
it's something about the way you dismiss it. it's not offering alternatives or engaging with the critique, it's like you go out of your way to paint whatever argument someone is making in the worst light possible and it feels like a bad faith argument

[xRECKONERx]

guys i still want to lynch vi

[xRECKONERx]

fuck, yeet. i want to yeet vi.

like imagine if yeeting vi removes the kill redirect and we now have a fucking army of trackers to unleash on the last scum

[xRECKONERx]

reck, if you want to yeet me for being a dick stop playing around and fucking do it

it's not really about you being a dick it's about the way you engage with the arguments

that being said, i don't necessarily think you are scum for it.

i do think you are probably barking up the wrong tree with CLAP. i dont know if a revelation that ridiculous is possibly fakeclaimed. idk.

but i think my preferences today would fall into one of the following
- yeet vi
- yeet someone inside the tracker pool specifically
- yeet someone on the auro wagon to find the bus

[xRECKONERx]

i refuse to believe that. if the kills are being performed by the mod and we have no way of stopping it, then this is essentially a mountainous game?
standard mountainous balance is 2:11, so... if we have 4 scum and 13 townies then i have some serious fucking questions about balance

the setup is SWINGY not "catastrophically fucked six ways to sunday"

[xRECKONERx]

no. right now, i think i believe CLAP (and would like trackers to verify things by tracking Vi) but i think there has to be a way to stop the random kills.

because, again, i cannot overstate this enough: 4:13 mountainous is ten million lightyears away from anything resembling balance

P.EDIT: CLAP i think you're actually town.

the "i refuse to believe that" was in reference to not being able to yeet vi and/or stop the randomness someway

[xRECKONERx]

my revelation could be associated with the word "smoke"

that's all i'll say on it

smoking gun? smoke and mirrors?

there's no smoke without fire?

put that in your pipe and smoke it?

one of these is right

[xRECKONERx]

we don't know that it's random though. that's the whole point? vi could be selecting the same kills, or different kills, or any number of things.
plus even if it is purely random i will take having a bunch of trackers to lock people into claims over a dice roll on kills

[xRECKONERx]

I Stilllllllll want to direct the conversation away from 'how does this shit all work' and more onto "this person is scum and here's why" tho

Same. My brain hurts.

you say this but
who is scum and why

[xRECKONERx]

the argument CLAP is making is that if we keep random kills (again we don't know they're actually random) then the kills might help us eliminate our potential yeetpool

like if we take out a non-tracker today and scumkill hits another non-tracker overnight

[xRECKONERx]

the argument CLAP is making is that if we keep random kills (again we don't know they're actually random) then the kills might help us eliminate our potential yeetpool

like if we take out a non-tracker today and scumkill hits another non-tracker overnight

and also that it's possible scum have some other way to fight trackers, given that it's likely Vi planned for the game to go more or less just like this.

But uh, since it doesn't look like anyone else likes this, i'll tell you half and see if everyone wants the other half. im not trying to be coy or unhelpful, i just think there's an obvious risk to sharing what i don't have to unless there's a good consensus for it:

there's something called a "calamity trigger". if it gets triggered, the kill mechanics are no longer in effect. (I don't want to say "go back to normal" because i don't actually know what "normal" is). the way it's worded in my role PM is something like this: scum pick the kill, Vi blocks it and then makes a new kill (which may or may not be the same),

until the calamity trigger goes off

the calamity trigger is held by a certain town slot (i kind of assumed this was the tarhalindur negative utility everyone was speculating about earlier). presumably that town slot knows who they are, i don't want to out unless there's consensus for it. the name "calamity trigger" kind of scared me because i wasn't sure if killing that players would have any other effects besides changing the kill mechanics

lmfao how is your revelation like 10 paragraphs and mine is like one half sentence

can you please stop trickling info and resetting the gamestate every 3 days

[xRECKONERx]

Like, Puppy is definitely getting run up today. I think that's pretty clear.

So why are certain players scrambling to position themselves in relation to his alignment?

lono

[xRECKONERx]

i received a prod

ive been reading but nothing is happening so

whatever

VOTE: kmd

[xRECKONERx]

i need to reread

it's def not me tho

but the game seems pretty won regardless so

i still think im willing to call all the trackers clear at this point

[xRECKONERx]

Since Kmd tracked CLAP on n1, I'm going to put CLAP into the obvtown pile.

I agree about CLAP being town but now might still be the time to yeet him - it gives two tracks tonight + 1 more the night after even assuming another tracker dies every night

It feels like the better play than just yeeting all of Reck/UT/Hoopla in some order though it probably gives the same results (of just winning the game)?

Yeeting obvtown CLAP so that <unknown change in game circumstances> is not better than not yeeting obvtown CLAP to create town block.

I'm not convinced that the change in circumstances is anything but a big wet fart in terms of helping town. You don't stick a bunch of town trackers into a game and make them all work right on the off chance some player dies on D1.

General Rules:

Ruleset stolen from Vi for that authentic old-time feeling. Note that cfj wouldn't let me out of reviews without a swing warning.

[xRECKONERx]

As the days go by I am less convinced UT is scum

[xRECKONERx]

Given my track record this means you should all be voting UT though

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: CLAP sure

[xRECKONERx]

vote: UT

While I can agree that 3/4 kills benefits scum, I have a harder time believing that puppy was that far out there in a gambit

What are you gonna do after Reck and I flip town?

asking the big questions here

[xRECKONERx]

so if we assume 2 mafia trackers (which fucking honestly seems likely) then we're pretty evenly divided into:

one scum in {me/blair/clap/hoopla/starbuck/ut}
one scum in {agar/gc/kmd/gamma/vpb}

right?

im fine to call vpb/gamma/gc conftown to me now

the kills arent random. but i do think blair is right that clap never actually claimed they were. so what's up @UT

[xRECKONERx]

ok, so it works like this:

1) scum make the kill
2) that kill is automatically blocked
3) vi makes a new kill instead. it may or may not be the same target.

ambiguities:

* im not sure whether scum know this is happening. they must have figured out by now that something's up? not sure if they knew this all along or not.
* im not sure how vi is selecting the kill. i thought this was random, but my PM doesn't say that, no explanation is given, Vi could just be killing off her favorites or going in some pre-set order

this post you quoted l i t e r a l ly shows that clap said up front he wasnt sure how the kills were being selected, i didnt see the "random" narrative at all

[xRECKONERx]

but due to calamity trigger im fine to yeet clap

[xRECKONERx]

for fuck's sake

[xRECKONERx]

if gamma wasn't town i'd think he's scum

VOTE: Blair imho

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: VPB

[xRECKONERx]

we really can't not test gamma's results.

it is the correct play.

this lmfao

[xRECKONERx]

yeah my secret info absolutely has nothing game related at the moment in it

and actually i guess it can't hurt to reveal it since i will clearly never be a nightkill target hrmmmm

[xRECKONERx]

there's nothing i have that will save anything

so when i said my revelation had something to do with "smoke" what i meant was "smoke and mirrors"

my revelation is literally that scum know i know something about the game
the thing i know about the game? is that scum knows i know something about the game

[insert infinite rabbit hole of wifom here]

so my only use was baiting scum into killing me because they think i know something specific
if i reveal that all i know is that they know something, i no longer look like a juicy nightkill target

[xRECKONERx]

Can you walk me through your thought process on:

Claim I have a revelation that helps scum > Say I won't share it until late-game > Now scum will kill me

Because I'm not saying "There is only one optimal way to handle that scenario and you didn't do it so you're scum," but... it's definitely not how I would have gone about attracting a nightkill.

(Revelations don't appear to be revealed upon flip, so killing Reck means his "information that helps scum" follows him to the grave - scum would not do this)

i felt like letting it be known that scum know my revelation lets me claim i have SOMETHING and also keep the mystique about it
idk i really didnt do the 4D chess involved that took into account scum couldnt kill me if they wanted to

so as time goes on im just like, a nothingburger

[xRECKONERx]

like this revelation had a very narrow set of parameters by which it was useful, i thought the most useful was drawing the kill

i guess another route i couldve taken was not mentioning it at all?

[xRECKONERx]

yeah, i mean, it was a catch 22

while the info was secret, it was useful
revealing the info makes it completely not useful

so

[xRECKONERx]

hoopla im not a cat

[xRECKONERx]

i mean we have to test the gamma claim so im not particularly interested in any other song/dance at this time

[xRECKONERx]

Woohoo, good job guys! VPB had me completely fleeced.

Gamma was a rock star. The UT lynch was real bad though.

I liked the setup. It was deceptively elegant.

Thanks for running, Vi.

[xRECKONERx]

its ok reck ill hard carry

abr i dont think u have earned that ego tbh

Holy shit did you turn out to be DEAD WRONG.

nah kid, you're still only 10% as good as you think you are

[xRECKONERx]

[xRECKONERx]

<3 love to hoopla

[xRECKONERx]

it felt right for swing/balance

btw just wanna point out my guess on farside actually being the scum with a revelation was correct

[xRECKONERx]

exactly what i said it was

[xRECKONERx]

there's nothing i have that will save anything

so when i said my revelation had something to do with "smoke" what i meant was "smoke and mirrors"

my revelation is literally that scum know i know something about the game
the thing i know about the game? is that scum knows i know something about the game

[insert infinite rabbit hole of wifom here]

so my only use was baiting scum into killing me because they think i know something specific
if i reveal that all i know is that they know something, i no longer look like a juicy nightkill target

[xRECKONERx]

i was half expecting to get to the end of the game and have vi be like YOU IDIOT YOU MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR PM but apparently i didn't

[xRECKONERx]

lmao i love how much paranoia my stupid revelation caused

10/10

[xRECKONERx]

yeahhhh i saw spyspy over there. i tried to find him on league to invite him to play but he was never on

[xRECKONERx]

Spyrex coming to watch warmed my cold dead heart.

Also, whoever in the spectator thread said scum should have claimed a revelation that all revelations were a lie ... GENIUS! Wish I would have thought of that

Hi boo

This was an interesting one to come back and read over. I'm pretty bad at the game as per the agreement but Gamma gets the props because you had me fooled.

The only one I really shook my head at was UT bein the laziest day ever, but understandable .

spyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyreeeeeeeeeexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[xRECKONERx]

miss u boo