Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like honestly I feel there’s actually a lot that should make me town, but it seems no one is bothering to look for it so fuck it why not just speed the process up.
Plus I have a plan. Some could say it’s the greatest.

Subject: Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

I will say if you try you should be able to see some towniness in my play despite those things. I’ll admit some things like my interactions with Jor were bad but I think I’ve been making solid effort that people who care will see.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I’m a bus driver

Have fun.

Subject: Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

I'm a cop. I can check a player each night phase of my game in either game. I have no idea how this was meant to ever be balanced but it's the fact of the matter.

Now if you'll excuse me I'd like to get back to my catching up.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

why does the thread keep exploding in a different way every time i check it?
last i left, it was with an NM or Amy shot, both of which i was fine with. i guess this is a sign should... actually be here, but i've been busy.
i'll catch up now, shouldn't take long. but does anyone want to give me a rundown just for fun?

Sure, Gamma scumslipped being buddies with NM and Gamma doesn’t treat a buddy like he did Amy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t know what you’re smoking.

First of all...you know exactly what I’m smoking.

And second, why am I the one that has to nominate it?

Because you love nominating Kodak moments like in LNT. I just love how Gamma thinks he can keep on doing absolutely nothing but AtE and think it’s going to change anyone’s mind.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

On a design level, as a player who town reads Hayasaka, it’s kinda funny that for DrP to join, I also have to roleblock Hayasaka.

Your role is weird, man.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

ugh i never know what to make of selfvoting

It depends on the context. Had Gamma town cased himself and/or scumcased ofhers and then did this, I might possibly view that as town indicative but all he did prior to that was pretty much call me different variations of stupid and continue to discredit me. He fakeclaimed cop as scum in Doubles, so I’m not ar all swayed by that abd if he is actually town here - doubt it - and just gave up like that, I will be thoroughly pissed at him for blatantly gamethrowing but his complete lack of a real defense is highly scum indicative and if Pepper doesn’t venge him, I’m still 100% investigating him tonight.

~M

Why the fuck would I case myself when you had posted five whole pages of confbias before I even came in? You. Are. Tuned. Out. That, along with Flavor not eveluating me honestly, and jjh and BEF already having expressed suspicion on me, fuck it, I don't think anyone actually cares to honestly read me.
And you want to see how I play as scum? Try this.

I’m a bus driver

Have fun.

Targets?

I swapped actions on VMP and BEF last night because I felt like VMP was a possible kill and BEF was shady. I put like zero thought into the ramifications of D&D’s flip during the night phase, outside of just seeing “oh that’s my flavor”
Like the thing about flavor meaning nothing was just something that only clicked when I was writing out the fact of the flavor being the same.

Like honestly I feel there’s actually a lot that should make me town, but it seems no one is bothering to look for it so fuck it why not just speed the process up.
Plus I have a plan. Some could say it’s the greatest.

Tell us your plan then and who you think we should venge? Devil flavour seems not to really fit a bus driver and how is this extremely different than your fake cop claim in Doubles?

And you need to spell that out for us. Why haven’t you made any effort in casing yourself then? Show us why we’re wrong if we are.

~M

I'm not towncasing myself at all or explaining my plan until everyone else pops in with their opinions on venging me
I'll let perceptions do whatever but I'm not going to affect them in ways I don't want to

WHY ARE ACTING LIKE YOU HAVE ANY POWER TO GUILTY ME IF NM FLIPS SCUM THEN?

I’m trying to decide which one of these is my favourite Gamma post.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

The thing is, both of you act like how I would as town.

What’s Gamma doing that reads townie to you?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

The thing is, both of you act like how I would as town.

What’s Gamma doing that reads townie to you?

~M

The AtE-ing frustration is town me and it happened in my past 2 town games

And you don’t think scum can replicate that? The problem is he’s literally not doing ANYTHING ELSE other than continuing to call me different varations of “stupid”, omgus, refuse to case himsrlf or anybody else for that matter, do pretty much the exact same thing he did as scum in a past game and claim we’ll regret flipping him.

I told him if he’s town he needs to self-case/case others but he outright refuses and I can find for you a game where he did the same AtE thing as scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Are you ready? I can help you peacefully come to the afterlife.

This post is 100% meme worthy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

The thing is, both of you act like how I would as town.

What’s Gamma doing that reads townie to you?

~M

The AtE-ing frustration is town me and it happened in my past 2 town games

And you don’t think scum can replicate that? The problem is he’s literally not doing ANYTHING ELSE other than continuing to call me different varations of “stupid”, omgus, refuse to case himsrlf or anybody else for that matter, do pretty much the exact same thing he did as scum in a past game and claim we’ll regret flipping him.

I told him if he’s town he needs to self-case/case others but he outright refuses and I can find for you a game where he did the same AtE thing as scum.

~M

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=77824&user_select% ... &start=200

Gamma scum game

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

and i'd really like Pepper in there.
can also confirm my role matches my tarot well.

Do you think Devil (assuming it’s real) matches bus driver?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Here's the thing.

I find a discussion on Gamma tomorrow to be more productive because you have more to go off on.

NM? Well half the town will be on him again and since he literally disappeared without reasonable reads, then the discussion fails.

You know why I'm shooting NM?

Town NM would have told me to shoot someone else

Because town NM advocated for the Vig of my scumbuddies in the last game we played together

JFC, Please don't venge me is different from "Venge Gamma/Tris/whoever" instead

Well, I have an entire fuckton of posts to respond to before Maria locks this thread, holy shit, Ah! I have no clue what NM is but on this specific point you are wrong on. Scum!NM would definitely tell you to shoot his buddy in order to distance and I don’t believe it’s FL. NM could still be scum but not telling you to shoot someone else is definitely NOT scum indicative for him.

@Gamma you owe me a fucking apology for repeatedly calling me variations of “stupid” and you had better god damned fucking apologize to me for that!

Anyway, I don’t believe FL is scum here and I still believe he’s wrong on Amy, especially if you’re scum. I would sincerely like to believe that you aren’t capable of being this mean to me and cruel as scum but I then I wouldn’t expect you to ever treat me like this as town either.

I actually think wanting to save NM - irrespective of his flip - is extremely town indicative for FL. Why? Because. I have a theory that if NM is scum here, scum wants him dead to render my role useless. In any case NM is easy misexecutebait if town, so I view trying to save him - rightly or wrongly as probably town indicative.

~Mars

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

NM is fadeable. If Not Mafia isn’t venged, they will go down still.

Ampharos red flip also would effectively clear both myself and NM.

It would clear you but not NW but nevertheless an extremely silly reason to fade her. You can clear yourself when you paraphrase comments from Pooky tomorrow. Anyone who has any familiarity with Pooky whatsoever will be able to tell if you’re bluffing or not.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

NM is fadeable. If Not Mafia isn’t venged, they will go down still.

Ampharos red flip also would effectively clear both myself and NM.

It would clear you but not NW but nevertheless an extremely silly reason to fade her. You can clear yourself when you paraphrase comments from Pooky tomorrow. Anyone who has any familiarity with Pooky whatsoever will be able to tell if you’re bluffing or not.

~M

@FL, just out of curiosity, what are you going to say if we flip Amy and she’s town? Have you even considered the possibility that you could be wrong on her?

What does worry me the most about Gamma is that he doesn’t have me higher on his readslist. FL confirmed my role is real duh! so how tf am I not locktown for you? Unless you have me lower on your list to reduce my NK equity, I’m really not liking that very much and it’s definitely concerning me.

@Gamma

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

and i'd really like Pepper in there.
can also confirm my role matches my tarot well.

Do you think Devil (assuming it’s real) matches bus driver?

~M

https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-devil

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

and i'd really like Pepper in there.
can also confirm my role matches my tarot well.

Do you think Devil (assuming it’s real) matches bus driver?

~M

yes, actually.

D&D's devil looks like the upright Devil. Gamma's sounds like reversed Devil.

even if Gamma's scum, i believe he's trueclaiming his flavour.

and i'd really like Pepper in there.
can also confirm my role matches my tarot well.

Do you think Devil (assuming it’s real) matches bus driver?

~M

https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-devil

The Devil Tarot card reversed can also indicate a near miss with a negative, harmful or dangerous situation or person. The important message this Major Arcana card brings is to be grateful that you avoided it, learn from it and move forward. Do not fall back into the old bad or risky behaviours that led you so close to danger.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

And if I’m Town

That "if" is almost as sexy as Nancy's in LNT.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

can you vote no elim under a gladiate?

also scumslips aren't real

also also tris and i apparently have the same role flavor

so that's interesting.

Huh? Of course they are. Ank had a game where she signed her name as “scum” as opposed to “summer”. Want to take a wild guess what she flipped in that?

That definitely IS

extremely

interesting.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

poe at this point is like. n_m gamma tris and then kill FL if he's alive at lylo? something along those lines

if gamma flips town with d&d's flavor i kinda wanna turbo tris

Many people know either me, Auro or Shiro in this game and I will tell him things that certain people in this thread will either know to be true or false. So if FL lies about dead VMP here, he’s toast basically.

I also know very specific things about many people in this playerlist, so you will know whether or not FL’s claim is true or not after we’re dead.

Iow, if FL’s role is real, he will have very specific things to relay to the playerlist that specific players - pretty much everyone but you obviously will be able to either confirm or deny.

Trust me, he 100% won’t be able to fake that as scum. I will make damned sure of it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Town, I'm shooting NM. I'm a bit worried that the optimal scum play in this situation was to be quiet and allow town discussion to revolve around the venge and not other means of scum hunting.

Too many games I played as town where I tunneled another player and scum was in the background being complacent because they weren't suspected.

My twilight statement is for town to analyze whoever was not actively participating in day 2 for tomorrow's Elim.

I mean sure go for Gamma but I'm worried that this fight allows scum to just stay in the background while town implodes

I concur. The coversation is getting to frayed and we need to reel it in.

Just self hammer and resubmit your NM venge please.

Aren’t you reading the thread? FL needs to be the one to hammer.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

1954 is also quite suspect imo.

Ironically, you're the player I had in mind in my post 1959

You seriously think scum!BEF would ever be this obvious? He’s still my top town along with locktown KD.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Ironically, you're the player I had in mind in my post 1959

Town, I'm shooting NM. I'm a bit worried that the optimal scum play in this situation was to be quiet and allow town discussion to revolve around the venge and not other means of scum hunting.

I assume you are talking about this part of 1959.

I think we had enough talk about the venge and everything else about today. We already have 3 (and it could be argued undeeded atm) claims from people not in the duel today iirc (FL, VMP and Gamma).

Straying now from the concrete info your flip and the venge flip will give us only muddies the water. Sorry, if I don't want to go deeper today but the focus isn't there.

I didn't think about FL's ability when I asked about the self hammer. I have no problem waiting on that. He can V1 Haya or V1 No Fade and V2 you. What's the problem with that or whatever he wants.

Barring the double vote, I don't 100% believe the rest of his claim and even if he is lying about the 2nd part it isn't AI for FL.

Also, I don't think there is "legally" a way to verify that FL has a PT with Pooky without violating the "discussing ongoing games" rule.

There is once we’re dead. I will tell FL very specific comments about either us or specific players that he would have no way of knowing which specific players will be able to either confirm or deny and if that doesn’t actually happen, you know his ghost part of his PT is complete bs.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

Ironically, you're the player I had in mind in my post 1959

Town, I'm shooting NM. I'm a bit worried that the optimal scum play in this situation was to be quiet and allow town discussion to revolve around the venge and not other means of scum hunting.

I assume you are talking about this part of 1959.

I think we had enough talk about the venge and everything else about today. We already have 3 (and it could be argued undeeded atm) claims from people not in the duel today iirc (FL, VMP and Gamma).

Straying now from the concrete info your flip and the venge flip will give us only muddies the water. Sorry, if I don't want to go deeper today but the focus isn't there.

I didn't think about FL's ability when I asked about the self hammer. I have no problem waiting on that. He can V1 Haya or V1 No Fade and V2 you. What's the problem with that or whatever he wants.

Barring the double vote, I don't 100% believe the rest of his claim and even if he is lying about the 2nd part it isn't AI for FL.

Also, I don't think there is "legally" a way to verify that FL has a PT with Pooky without violating the "discussing ongoing games" rule.

There is once we’re dead. I will tell FL very specific comments about either us or specific players that he would have no way of knowing which specific players will be able to either confirm or deny and if that doesn’t actually happen, you know his ghost part of his PT is complete bs.

~M

Shiro was a medium in a game I was also in, so I know exactly what to do to confirm FL. So, if you are not seeing very specific FACTS/QUESTIONS/OPINIONS about either ourselves/others directed to specific players actually happen, you will 100% know FL is lying, because he won’t be able to fake any of those things. So if he’s town, our death will lock confirm him because of the very specific messages he will post in the thread and the absence of that, probably means our “positive” on him is correct. So 100% you will KNOW FL’s alignment after we die.

I would also strongly urge players to ask extemely specific questions that only me/Auro/Shiro but NOT FL would know, that’s how you’ll best find that out.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Here's the thing.

I find a discussion on Gamma tomorrow to be more productive because you have more to go off on.

NM? Well half the town will be on him again and since he literally disappeared without reasonable reads, then the discussion fails.

You know why I'm shooting NM?

Town NM would have told me to shoot someone else

Because town NM advocated for the Vig of my scumbuddies in the last game we played together

JFC, Please don't venge me is different from "Venge Gamma/Tris/whoever" instead

Well, I have an entire fuckton of posts to respond to before Maria locks this thread, holy shit, Ah! I have no clue what NM is but on this specific point you are wrong on. Scum!NM would definitely tell you to shoot his buddy in order to distance and I don’t believe it’s FL. NM could still be scum but not telling you to shoot someone else is definitely NOT scum indicative for him.

@Gamma you owe me a fucking apology for repeatedly calling me variations of “stupid” and you had better god damned fucking apologize to me for that!

Anyway, I don’t believe FL is scum here and I still believe he’s wrong on Amy, especially if you’re scum. I would sincerely like to believe that you aren’t capable of being this mean to me and cruel as scum but I then I wouldn’t expect you to ever treat me like this as town either.

I actually think wanting to save NM - irrespective of his flip - is extremely town indicative for FL. Why? Because. I have a theory that if NM is scum here, scum wants him dead to render my role useless. In any case NM is easy misexecutebait if town, so I view trying to save him - rightly or wrongly as probably town indicative.

~Mars

I will issue any necessary apologies after the game ends. However, if I’m scum, why do I need to apologize, eh?

You fucking need to apologize no matter what the fuck you are? How is that even a serious fucking question? You actually think being abusive is okay if you’re fucking scum here? Seriously?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

Here's the thing.

I find a discussion on Gamma tomorrow to be more productive because you have more to go off on.

NM? Well half the town will be on him again and since he literally disappeared without reasonable reads, then the discussion fails.

You know why I'm shooting NM?

Town NM would have told me to shoot someone else

Because town NM advocated for the Vig of my scumbuddies in the last game we played together

JFC, Please don't venge me is different from "Venge Gamma/Tris/whoever" instead

Well, I have an entire fuckton of posts to respond to before Maria locks this thread, holy shit, Ah! I have no clue what NM is but on this specific point you are wrong on. Scum!NM would definitely tell you to shoot his buddy in order to distance and I don’t believe it’s FL. NM could still be scum but not telling you to shoot someone else is definitely NOT scum indicative for him.

@Gamma you owe me a fucking apology for repeatedly calling me variations of “stupid” and you had better god damned fucking apologize to me for that!

Anyway, I don’t believe FL is scum here and I still believe he’s wrong on Amy, especially if you’re scum. I would sincerely like to believe that you aren’t capable of being this mean to me and cruel as scum but I then I wouldn’t expect you to ever treat me like this as town either.

I actually think wanting to save NM - irrespective of his flip - is extremely town indicative for FL. Why? Because. I have a theory that if NM is scum here, scum wants him dead to render my role useless. In any case NM is easy misexecutebait if town, so I view trying to save him - rightly or wrongly as probably town indicative.

~Mars

I will issue any necessary apologies after the game ends. However, if I’m scum, why do I need to apologize, eh?

You fucking need to apologize no matter what the fuck you are? How is that even a serious fucking question? You actually think being abusive is okay if you’re fucking scum here? Seriously?

~M

And ftr it’s repetitive. You called me variations of “stupid” in MULTIPLE fucking posts, not just one! Like who in the actual fuck thinks that being scum gives them any fucking justification for that? I won’t get into it here but I’ve literally been crying specifically BECAUSE of YOUR posts here and if you’re actually town here getting me upsetis definitely anti your wincon. so if you’re town and rn for me, that’s a big if, the very last thing you want is to upset me to the point that I avoid the game because of you, because we both know I’ll eventually figure that out and pretty much, you upset me at your own risk if you’re town here and you will have no one but yourself to blame if you’ve ailenated me to the point where I avoid the game and don’t save you. So if you’re actually town here and you get misfaded, it’s your own goddamned fault for egregiously pissing me off to the extent you have.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Can I just get a recap of where I’ve explicitly called you stupid? I’ve said a lot of things but can’t recall saying that. Even then I don’t think I’ve made it personal, I believe I’ve stuck to things that can reasonably be considered within the bounds of the game.

You said - I don’t remember which post and not gonna to bother to look it up - “are you stupid”? And you’ve been constantly been making digs about your perception of my intelligence ever since and for someone who gave me shit post-game in RS, I am absolutely astounded at the hypocrisy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lACSvDOLhLU[/youtube]

what if we all took a step back and chilled a bit

what if amy doesn't fucking know how bbcode works

i'll just hyperlink instead

You do it like this: [youtube ] lACSvDOLhLU [ /youtube ], minus all of the spaces.



~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I at least am seeing that you’re discussing rationally which helps

Like THIS one but it’s the least offensive variation on that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But yeah I remember that one now
However, I’m not trying to attack you personally. I’m trying to indicate that you’re not evaluating properly, I just do not have a way with words. Like, I think “stupid” is not the word I should have used there, I should have said “dense”. So, I guess I can apologize for that, and for making you cry. I’m not sure if that covers anything, but it’s the best I think I can manage rn. I’m not going to try to force an apology, ok?

You’ll understand better post-game but I have very specific reasons why I am specifically triggered by that. Really not something I want to discuss publicly. What I will say, is I don’t remember if you recall FA in RC uPick accusing me of derping in every single game as some kind of a brilliant strategy to get people to underestimate me or not but it isn’t. Derping is something I do constantly IRL as well. It’s literally not something I can do anything about. But I get major shit for it because people don’t believe me.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But yeah I remember that one now
However, I’m not trying to attack you personally. I’m trying to indicate that you’re not evaluating properly, I just do not have a way with words. Like, I think “stupid” is not the word I should have used there, I should have said “dense”. So, I guess I can apologize for that, and for making you cry. I’m not sure if that covers anything, but it’s the best I think I can manage rn. I’m not going to try to force an apology, ok?

You’ll understand better post-game but I have very specific reasons why I am specifically triggered by that. Really not something I want to discuss publicly. What I will say, is I don’t remember if you recall FA in RC uPick accusing me of derping in every single game as some kind of a brilliant strategy to get people to underestimate me or not but it isn’t. Derping is something I do constantly IRL as well. It’s literally not something I can do anything about. But I get major shit for it because people don’t believe me.

~M

In a nutshell, I either get my intelligence questioned when that happens or I get wrongly accused of having a bad attitude when I don’t.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Woah, Idk what happened there. I think my response is in the quote, but I’m out and about, so i can’t fix it now

Did you not read my posts that dead!VMP can confirm or debunk your role by either having players ask us specific questions that only they and me/Auro/Shiro would know or have us say specific things to specific players et al?

In what world do you think you wouldn’t be confirmed as locktown if everything you’re saying about your role is true?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I at least am seeing that you’re discussing rationally which helps

Like THIS one but it’s the least offensive variation on that.

~M

I don’t get what you’re saying here

You’re once again commenting on what you perceive is my ability to think “rationally” or not. Just please knock that the fuck off already, thank you.

Comment on what I’ve actually said

and stop deciding that you have any goddamned right whatsoever to talk to me that way.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Woah, Idk what happened there. I think my response is in the quote, but I’m out and about, so i can’t fix it now

Did you not read my posts that dead!VMP can confirm or debunk your role by either having players ask us specific questions that only they and me/Auro/Shiro would know or have us say specific things to specific players et al?

In what world do you think you wouldn’t be confirmed as locktown if everything you’re saying about your role is true?

~M

Yeah, if that happens, I’ll probably end up with a correct solve, but get misfaded ~FL

Oh I see, sorry FL I obviously missed that. Well anyone who’s town should never try to fade you before we die, because we can 100% locktown you if everything you’ve been saying is true.

So, if you telling the truth, we will 100% be able to confirm it.

So, everyone, FL’s alignment will be 100% made clear the following night after we die, so he should never be wagoned prior to that because it will be as clear as a mod confirmed IC or not, at that point. And considering the obvious clear benefit to town if he is confirmed. it would be pretty much gamethrowing to fade him prior to that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Woah, Idk what happened there. I think my response is in the quote, but I’m out and about, so i can’t fix it now

Did you not read my posts that dead!VMP can confirm or debunk your role by either having players ask us specific questions that only they and me/Auro/Shiro would know or have us say specific things to specific players et al?

In what world do you think you wouldn’t be confirmed as locktown if everything you’re saying about your role is true?

~M

Yeah, if that happens, I’ll probably end up with a correct solve, but get misfaded ~FL

Oh I see, sorry FL I obviously missed that. Well anyone who’s town should never try to fade you before we die, because we can 100% locktown you if everything you’ve been saying is true.

So, if you telling the truth, we will 100% be able to confirm it.

So, everyone, FL’s alignment will be 100% made clear the following night after we die, so he should never be wagoned prior to that because it will be as clear as a mod confirmed IC or not, at that point. And considering the obvious clear benefit to town if he is confirmed. it would be pretty much gamethrowing to fade him prior to that.

~M

I obviously mean day after because once he reveals our thoughts in the thread, there is no way you won’t know whether he’s town or not.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i think it's kind of ridiculous to get this upset over NM being venged, FL. even if you don't think it's optimal or a shitty idea.
not commenting on the rest. this thread is getting hard to read. i'm just going to wait for the day to end.

Yeah, I really don’t get it either. My guess is possibly outright paranoia about him getting misfaded? Because he probably hasn’t read my posts yet about how we can 100%. confirm him after we die if what he’s saying is true. Shiro and I both know from the game we were in where he was a medium how optimally to best make use of it.

In that game, people asked dead town!Cerb very specific questions to Shiro that only he, Cerb could possibly know. Now the obvious difference between those two games is that Shiro’s role wasn’t in question just his alignment but in the case with FL, literal confirmation of his role, WILL confirm his alignment and there is literally no one better to be able to do that than us.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

alright, i wasn't thinking far enough ahead. Gamma's a claimed bus driver, so having him continue to be alive if we aren't sure he's town is a bad situation, which i believe is a major part of FL's point. i don't a good enough read of Gamma on my own, personally, but the mechanical argument for killing him today is there.
don't mind me, just perpetually behind the eight ball.

Well NM is extremely unlikely to help with that obviously, so that may be why FL is arguing so passionately against an NM venge? Like of any player in the game, NM would obviously be the most useless in confirming him, where as we would probably be the best.

I’m still unclear what that “plan” of his, Gamma mentioned involves? Did anyone understand that?

However, I would view anyone hardpushing him as scum here before our dead talk can confirm or debunk him to possibly be concerning, if it continues, because we can obviously prove his alignment based off of everything I’ve said.

If NM flips scum here than Gamma and FL are correct that our role is pretty much useless.

So I expect if NM does flip town, we’re very likely dying if protectives aren’t on us. Not sure if he’s scum though.

And I guess I really want to believe FL’s role is real for obvious reasons, so I will hard veto any attempt to fade him, unless we’re literally in Elo with slots I tr > his.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

that's the thing, really. you can fake conversations, but without some ridiculous effort it'd be hard for scum FL to uphold that. and that's without any possible private information shared between two town scummers, one dead and one alive.
it sucks for town FL too. being the relay is thankless, i have too much experience with that.

I’m not talking about conversations though, I’m referring to things that can be literally confirmed to be coming from VMP and something that FL would have no way of knowing. Rn, I haven’t really thought about the specifics but I strongly encourage people to think up questions that only me/Auro/Shiro could possibly know the answer to.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Ampharos was never to be seen again they were...

Spoiler: “Love is the difficult realization that something other than oneself is real.”

Welcome Ampharos you are

The Lovers

You are a Neighbor Even night self redirector conditional hated/loved sided with with the Town

Abilities:

Every even night you may target 1 player and actions they perform will target you instead
If that target is doing a negative action you will be hated the next day
If that target is doing a positive or ‘neutral’ action you will be loved the next day.

It is now Day 3
(expired on 2020-09-25 03:37:43)

Whoah, did not expect that at all.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

It's funny how FL accidently saved the town.
I tracked Amy to Tris.

Someone think about that for me before I gladiate

I can see what conclusion you're drawing here, but i'm not a killer. Still, it doesn't make sense that mafia would kill Amy. could this be a result of gamma busdriving? does that clear gamma. which in that case, who actually is mafia then? Flavor and jjh? are you actually mafia or something? that can't be right.

did the mafia actually decide to kill amy? that's a very odd move.

well, i guess we should hear what gamma has to say

I agree, it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

Based on my reads, it looks like 2 bussers on DnD wagon. I just don’t ever see BEF/KD as scum here.

It is definitely possible that Gamma self-directed a bus with Amy however but I kind of doubt it. I think if Gamma did a self-directed bus, it would have been most likely with a player who was actually investigatable by us and that 100% would obviously not have been Amy.

So I don’t think Amy was a bus drive.

~Mars

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Nancy, Gamma got a clear?

Yes. So he’s either town or he did a self-directed bus drive. If he actually is town, I’ll have some post-redacting to do from our hydra PT post-game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

It's funny how FL accidently saved the town.
I tracked Amy to Tris.

Someone think about that for me before I gladiate

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

So Amy self-redirected to Tris?

I don’t see why scum!Tris ever kills Amy here, like that would be seriously dumb.

Don’t gladiate anything until I get a chance to ask Maria some questions that may or may not disprove your suspicions.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Tris/Jjh
Jjh/Gamma

That’s where I’m at right now.

I should have listened to Auro.

He wanted us to TA jjh but I thought that if I were BD scum!Gamma, that’s 100% whom I’d switch with and I was afraid I’d get a false positive. I also thought he lied about being bus driver but Amy NK doesn’t make any sense as a Gamma bus drive.

Wait, if Amy self-redirected Tris, doesn’t that point against Tris!scum?

Because wouldn’t that make Tris the actual target of the NK?

So I think Tris was the target and Amy died by mistake. Based on what Maria answers, I might be able to confitown her.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

For example, Tris claimed the Lovers’ flavour BEFORE Amy did but she sounded super genuine in our PT and she sounded fake af when she was scum in YOM 1, so I think Gamma BD Tris actually makes a lot of sense here.

Based off of everything she posted in our PT, I hard town read her.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

For example, Tris claimed the Lovers’ flavour BEFORE Amy did but she sounded super genuine in our PT and she sounded fake af when she was scum in YOM 1, so I think Gamma BD Tris actually makes a lot of sense here.

Based off of everything she posted in our PT, I hard town read her.

~M

There were also specific things she posted that made me think her role is legit. She claimed conditional bg and told me and Hya that both of us would be protected if we both - in my case (Tris and us) PM Maria with an “I do” but Maria hasn’t confirmed any of that but here’s the thing, if either Hya or us die and Tris doesn’t, she’s confiscum. so that’s quite a risky gambit for scum!Tris because she can’t kill either of us in that case and Gamma has been over the top scummy.

My problem is that I don’t know who he makes sense with other than Tris but Gamma is still my #1 scumread. Gamma has done 0 sorting and angrily shot down my extremely helpful suggestions to case himself and/or others. In any case, I’m glad we were right on Amy and whatever Gamma is, I was right on them not being aligned.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

A busdriver couldn't stop my track it wouldn't work the way you guys think it would.

If Tris was bus driven then my track would tell me the name of the scum anyway.

So you’re saying it’s impossible that Tris was bus driven then?

Well, if Tris is scum, Gamma makes the most sense as her buddy. I guess Amy deserves a moment of brilliance scummy in that case, because she totally changed the game.

Tris!scum would definitely make sense and confirm FL’s role being real.

So DnD really did townTMI Amy and Amy flip + our role + FL’s mean Town is stacked. Another mark against Gamma being town BD, I think.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

You have an inno on Gamma right now correct?
Which means Gamma couldn't have bus driven either Tris or Amy with himself.

Which means either my result on Amy and Tris is truthful as it wasn't interfered with.
OR your result on Gamma is truthful in which case I can act based on his proclaimed bus drive targets.

It probably is accurate. I changed my mind 4 times, 5 if you include Auro preferring jjh > Gamma but I never submitted that, so probably the mods did mean Gamma. I asked Maria to confirm in any case. I did think it weird though that Dunn wouldn’t confirm the “I do” thing. I guess they would have if it was real, no? So you’re probably right

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Keep in mind the 2nd outcome doesn't always end in us eliminating Tris.
We need Gamma.

VMP the role is "redirect all of your targets actions to yourself" what this means is whoever Amy targeted submitted a killing action.
My read on Amy not being night killed literally ever because flavor leaf is just town and that 1v1 is way too pro scum. Far outweighs however I feel about Tris.

Yeah I guess so because why wouldn’t Dunn have confirmed the “I do”? Tris told us that if she and us both PM Maria an “I do”, then we will be protected from the NK because Tris claimed conditional bg. You got told that same thing, right @Hya?

But Tris told me that you never said anything about that but I don’t see why Dunn wouldn’t have confirmed it if real, so I guess I should have realized something’s weird about that.

I still think Gamma bus drove jjh, which is why I TA’d Gamma, because scum!Gamma would have to know that I would be TAing jjh based on my reads. I obviously wasn’t going to be TAing Hya, KD or BEF.

So a Gamma negative would still fit that but I guess Tris is guiltied by what you’re saying. She was super convincing. I totally bought it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Also I'd give good odds on the second scum being FL considering he's pushing two separate and mutually exclusive angles against this being a guilty, and appears to have misrepresented his role COMPLETELY

Wouldn’t Tris!scum make his role more likely though?

She expressed suspicion on his role being real because of hers.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like FL I wanted to either be wrong on Amy with a result which was probably the only way I changed my mind.
Or I could use that result to run around screaming Amy is actually just town and I can gladiate to saver her all game.

I basically always won.

I didn't target Gamma because he had a cop going on him so it would have been a waste of an action.

Hya is obvious town FL and Amy is town hero.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@Jjh - I’m pushing other angles, but you are completely missing that I stated Tris most likely scum already.

I’m not gonna sit here and talk about it more when if Tris dies, I’m more than likely dying tonight.

It’s more of a if Tris isn’t scum insurance policy.

Based off of Amy flip, only way is if Gamma bus drove Tris, right and I don’t see why he’d do that but Hya is saying that’s impossible right?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

well, i don't know how the results ended up as they are, but i guess gamma is probably just scum. flavor leaf will be confirmed or not so we don't need to worry about him. shoot i keep not thinking about jjh. i guess i'll do that soon.

i wanna put my vote here VOTE: Gamma.

i posted about my reading of gamma in neighborhoods last night. the summery is while i liked day 1. day 2 he wasn't doing anything at first, and then he just latched onto flavor's read of amy for most of the rest of the day.

pedit: i got confirmation of VMP's I do last night, Haya didn't realize she had to do that again, so that one didn't happen, but it didn't matter.

I haven’t though.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I'm just looking at flips and this setup may be role madness but it looks like it's got a heavy emphasis on day play

If we assume scum!tris, traffic analyser can never hard guilty scum and gets plenty of false positives. Most actions appear relatively weak and seem to involve moving targets about or being untargetable. The tracker is probably the strongest role claimed so far, mechanically speaking

It could just be 2 scum tbh

That’s why I thought it pointless to TA you when I realized that Gamma’s role if real and if scum, would be the most likely to bus drive you, so I though our best shot was hoping it was a fakeclaim and we get a positive, so it points to bus drive being real but way too much town power with Hya, us, FL for Gamma to be town BD. Now Tris claims she got confirmation on our “I do” but why haven’t we? Wouldn’t we both receive confirmation on that @Tris? I checked and double checked that it was received and that much was confirmed but nothing else, so it sounds really suspect to me that we wouldn’t get a confirmation but you would.

I think it’s Tris/Gamma

I tr everyone else and would also Tris if it weren’t for Amy flip, Hya’s claim and the whole “I do” thing not adding up.

There’s also DnD being extremely concerned with FL’s Tris read and DnD never really commenting on her and leaving them out of their reads. I need to ask Amy post-game how she figured it out.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Another reason why I didn’t want to TA jjh because he’s so obviously town.

So I think Tris/Gamma and we all get to look forward to another day of Gamma’s toxic AtEing and outsourcing obnoxious Survivor videos. \o/

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

It would be pointless to TA me anyway
You'd get a positive result because I have a crier message

Oh wait nvm just double checked that
Based on the wiki you would not

I figured that scum!Gamma would have expected us to TA you and then we’d get a false positive. However, I really did think the BD claim was bogus.

But with tracker, TA, self-redirector and dv, a town bd seems like way too much town power. Also and I wonder why it didn’t ping Amy at all — what are the odds of there being a town self-redirector + a town bus driver in the same game?

Like mechanically, Amy’s role makes Gamma’s role being a scum role all that more likely.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I'm just looking at flips and this setup may be role madness but it looks like it's got a heavy emphasis on day play

If we assume scum!tris, traffic analyser can never hard guilty scum and gets plenty of false positives. Most actions appear relatively weak and seem to involve moving targets about or being untargetable. The tracker is probably the strongest role claimed so far, mechanically speaking

It could just be 2 scum tbh

That’s why I thought it pointless to TA you when I realized that Gamma’s role if real and if scum, would be the most likely to bus drive you, so I though our best shot was hoping it was a fakeclaim and we get a positive, so it points to bus drive being real but way too much town power with Hya, us, FL for Gamma to be town BD. Now Tris claims she got confirmation on our “I do” but why haven’t we? Wouldn’t we both receive confirmation on that @Tris? I checked and double checked that it was received and that much was confirmed but nothing else, so it sounds really suspect to me that we wouldn’t get a confirmation but you would.

I think it’s Tris/Gamma

I tr everyone else and would also Tris if it weren’t for Amy flip, Hya’s claim and the whole “I do” thing not adding up.

There’s also DnD being extremely concerned with FL’s Tris read and DnD never really commenting on her and leaving them out of their reads. I need to ask Amy post-game how she figured it out.

~M

i guess the role is based on the other person trusting you or something. why would i make up a weird thing like that?

I don’t know but why do you only have the “I do” confirmation but not us?

But Amy flip very likely confirms Gamma scum because of her self-redirector role and Hya did track Amy to you and I don’t see why he’d lie about that.

Like play-wise Gamma looks way worse + town!BD really not making sense with a town self-redirector, so I think we probably hit scum either way but it really doesn’t make a lot of sense that Gamma bus drove you with him when he knew I obviously couldn’t TA you.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector

Gamma!scum confirmed

Amy’s role may be called “self-redirector” but it’s exactly the exact same thing as deflector so no way is there both that + town bd in the same setup but Gamma’s being bd does makes sense as scum also Gamma negative doesn’t mean jack. He just has to avoid posting in the scum PT last night for us to get a negative result. If he’s scum and didn’t post in the scum PT, that would get a negative result whether or not he’s actually a BD, so he could still be possibly be lying about that too.

Our TA only works when “outside communication” happens on the exact same night we investigate, so the TA part of our role is worthless and the coroner only to confirm Hya wasn’t lying, which we will obviously know if Tris flips scum.

I’m just sad that I will probably be dead and won’t be able to have the satisfaction of fading Gamma. :/

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

And Maria did confirm that a bus driver in this game could self-target, so that negative means absolutely nothing whether or not Gamma is telling the truth about being a BD or not. If he never posted in the scum PT last night, we’d still have gotten a negative.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I think Gamma is scum but Amy wasn't a deflector

Deflector
Alias:
Redirector
Alignment: any
Role type:
Manipulative
Choice:
Night
A Deflector is a role that takes all actions that target one player at Night, and redirects them so that they target a second player instead.

Isn’t that what FL said that Amy’s action on Tris meant?


Oh nm then but my point that there’s no way in hell Gamma is ever a town BD in the same set up with a town self-redirector, still holds. Thank freaking God, we never flipped Amy. We’re probably winning this game in large part due to her.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I think Gamma is scum but Amy wasn't a deflector

Yeah, so it really doesn’t matter which one of Tris/Gamma gets flipped first. We hit scum in either case. Tris is just far less annoying.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I can roleblock whichever we don’t fade today.

+1

You always have to be the hammer though? I don’t trust scum not to try to mess with that. Had I not had unvoted, Gamma’s hammer would have been real.

I suggest that whomever puts whichever one at F-1 coordinate with you so you and whichever townie can do it back to back.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Maria just confirmed to me that Tris if her bg claim is true would have directly targeted Amy. Not sure if that helps anything or not.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

just remembered that i was ALSO asked why i had VMP so high in my readslist

the short answer is that they give way too much of a shit about me answering their questions for them to be a wolf just asking questions for the sake of it

and it would be somewhat different if they were exclusively deathtunneling me but their focus has been broad enough that i think they're legitimately trying to solve my alignment

like at this point they're hayasaka-tier obvious town fmpov

How did I not locktown her? I missed this.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

oh right tris wanted me to articulate why i tr'd fl for that one page

lemme refresh my memory

ah yeah that's right

there was an undercurrent of low-level annoyance beneath his posting; think he was lowkey frustrated that his contributions thus far had been misunderstood/downplayed, in a "why do you not get what i'm talking about" kind of way

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

Wait so Tris has/had hoods with Amphy, VMP, and Haya? That doesn’t quite check out rn

If you want to sr Tris, actually sr her for something that hasn’t already been verified.



~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

So if any of you guys die, Tris = automatically 100% confirmed scum

Well she’s apparently walking back her Hya protect because she apparently didn’t do the “I do” thing but I’m not really buying it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

Wait so Tris has/had hoods with Amphy, VMP, and Haya? That doesn’t quite check out rn

Gamma is now trying to shade me and Hya by doubting that both of us were neighbourized by Tris.

Tris confirmed to me she neighbourized her D1 but nice try.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

Wait so Tris has/had hoods with Amphy, VMP, and Haya? That doesn’t quite check out rn

Gamma is now trying to shade me and Hya by doubting that both of us were neighbourized by Tris.

Tris confirmed to me she neighbourized her D1 but nice try.

~M

Which Hya already confirmed but I’m really fascinated to see where you’re going with this.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I read it like Amy made all actions from Tris go to her.

All actions FROM Tris? So Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so does this mean Tris tried to kill someone other than Amy but Amy got killed instead?

So Gamma could have bus drove Tris then.

I still think Gamma is super scummy. So, maybe that could be what happened and he framed her?

Okay, I didn’t want to out this but Tris neighbourized us last night and based off of everything she posted in our PT, Meryl Streep has some really steep competition if Tris is actually scum here.

~M

Wait so Tris has/had hoods with Amphy, VMP, and Haya? That doesn’t quite check out rn

Gamma is now trying to shade me and Hya by doubting that both of us were neighbourized by Tris.

Tris confirmed to me she neighbourized her D1 but nice try.

~M

Oh so it’s a day action? That makes some sense.

I got my hood with Tris immediately after the flips were posted.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

A busdriver couldn't stop my track it wouldn't work the way you guys think it would.

If Tris was bus driven then my track would tell me the name of the scum anyway.

So you’re saying it’s impossible that Tris was bus driven then?

Well, if Tris is scum, Gamma makes the most sense as her buddy. I guess Amy deserves a moment of brilliance scummy in that case, because she totally changed the game.

Tris!scum would definitely make sense and confirm FL’s role being real.

So DnD really did townTMI Amy and Amy flip + our role + FL’s mean Town is stacked. Another mark against Gamma being town BD, I think.

~M

Thoughts now that I’ve fully claimed my modifier?

Whether or not your role is real or not, our negative is meaningless because all scum!you has to do is not talk in your PT last night. If you weren’t aware of my role, it would actually mean something but your role is way to similar to Amy’s to be a town role - even with the modifier. Why not just make Amy an ungated self-redirector?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Btw FL, what are your thoughts on my modifier claim?

If Amy had flipped N1 vig, would you honestly buy a N2 desperado in the same setup?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

A busdriver couldn't stop my track it wouldn't work the way you guys think it would.

If Tris was bus driven then my track would tell me the name of the scum anyway.

So you’re saying it’s impossible that Tris was bus driven then?

Well, if Tris is scum, Gamma makes the most sense as her buddy. I guess Amy deserves a moment of brilliance scummy in that case, because she totally changed the game.

Tris!scum would definitely make sense and confirm FL’s role being real.

So DnD really did townTMI Amy and Amy flip + our role + FL’s mean Town is stacked. Another mark against Gamma being town BD, I think.

~M

Thoughts now that I’ve fully claimed my modifier?

Whether or not your role is real or not, our negative is meaningless because all scum!you has to do is not talk in your PT last night. If you weren’t aware of my role, it would actually mean something but your role is way to similar to Amy’s to be a town role - even with the modifier. Why not just make Amy an ungated self-redirector?

~M

Last night

? How many times are you going to adjust minor details about your role, because this is I believe the first time you’ve mentioned having to post on a specific night.
Also, I feel like at this point you’re refusing to townread me in order to salvage your ego, seeing as you said there were things in your hydra OT you said you’d have to redact if I was town.

I never said I had to post on a specific night. I said that my TA gets a negative result unless “communication outside of the game thread is present”. I’m seriously over you trying to twist my words.

I asked Maria what would happen if NM was scum and faded and we TA’d his buddy the following night.

I’m not interested in engaging with any of your repetitive attempts to gaslight me.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Lol, did Gamma just do the italicized word scum tell? Haven’t seen that in ages.

He’s trying to imply I lied about my role when everyone and their uncle just literally has to check the mafia Wiki. I feel more certain than ever that he’s scum here now.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Lol, did Gamma just do the italicized word scum tell? Haven’t seen that in ages.

He’s trying to imply I lied about my role when everyone and their uncle just literally has to check the mafia Wiki. I feel more certain than ever that he’s scum here now.

~M

I find it super interesting that Tris is pushing Gamma but Gamma is pushing me and Hya. Kill this!

HURT: Gamma

I will probably vote for Tris but Gamma is so over the top wolfy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

EXCEPT YOUR ROLE DOES NOT SEEM TO FUNCTION AT ALL LIKE THE WIKI SAYS IT DOES

It functions exactly like Maria says it does and sorry I’m not going to risk getting modkilled to 100% permanently debunk your gaslighting.

FL already confirmed our positive so you can fuck right off with that shit.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t feel like dealing with potential NancyScum right now, Gamma.

If Nancy is scum, that’s a conversation for late late game.

I will literally always go you over her here, if that’s what you’re trying to push

Town!Gamma would be hard tr me here and making cases why I’m wrong.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Now given that Amphy flipped something inaccurate as well it seems Maria just isn’t using proper role definitions
But you still said Jack all about having to post in PT the night you target your check
And even then what are you smoking that me not posting in PT ever makes sense? Posting in PT is like my favorite part of being scum

WHAT PART of “communication outside of the gamethread” are you incapable of processing?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like, I will say, there is a case to be made for ScumNancy, and if scum, she’s played well here, and I don’t think it’s outside of her scum range, but I haven’t really experienced scum her too much, but despite that, I think her play has been town indicative.

Scum!me doesn’t come up with ways to confirm your role unless we’re literally scum together in a flipless game.

And then I obviously wouldn’t have tried to get you faded prior to your medium claim. I also don’t unvote when allowing Gamma to hammer with 0 suspicion being thrown on me, could fuck you over either.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t feel like dealing with potential NancyScum right now, Gamma.

If Nancy is scum, that’s a conversation for late late game.

I will literally always go you over her here, if that’s what you’re trying to push

I don’t know, honestly. Yesterday I would have said they were town, at this point I’m on the fence. Obviously it’s not happening today regardless, but the rapid changing of role specifics is hard to find Town motivation in.
Plus I’ve been talking with my dad (who isn’t as against me playing mafia anymore) and his read on the situation seems to be that VMP is deflecting onto me, which probably also implicates Tris? Which on role speculation makes 0 sense but on behavior I could see.
FYI I see no problem with this sort of “phone a friend” act because the last time I did it I wasn’t reprimanded, but if I get chastised I’ll stop it. But like sometimes I have to vent about the game (especially when dad’s around since anytime I start typing fast he gets nosy) and that leads to important observations, and I’d prefer to be upfront about why I’m saying those things.

You’re on the fence because you’re not town.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t feel like dealing with potential NancyScum right now, Gamma.

If Nancy is scum, that’s a conversation for late late game.

I will literally always go you over her here, if that’s what you’re trying to push

Town!Gamma would be hard tr me here and making cases why I’m wrong.

~M

Except I’ve tried pointing out how you’re wrong and you seem to not be willing to listen. So at the very least I don’t regard you as any level of helpful. I’m sorry if this hurts your feelings but I’m tired of being deathtunneled just like you’re tired of being “gaslighted”.

Hya claims a guilty on Tris, yet you’re pushing me? Yeah 100% townie behaviour.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Now given that Amphy flipped something inaccurate as well it seems Maria just isn’t using proper role definitions
But you still said Jack all about having to post in PT the night you target your check
And even then what are you smoking that me not posting in PT ever makes sense? Posting in PT is like my favorite part of being scum

WHAT PART of “communication outside of the gamethread” are you incapable of processing?

~M

From what you said D2 it seemed your role wouldn’t work if someone never posted in their PT. Now it has to be a specific night? WHY?

I’m not playing this game, I’ve already answered that. How are these two statements even a contradiction? I told you that Mara said that if NM flipped scum, I’d get a negative on their buddy. Seriously I really hope you feel bad about this post-game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like idk I was hoping Gamma would mess up and create a pool of 3 that has 2 scum in it lol.
Unfortunate but Tris is just near 100% scum now I think.

Notice that Gamma has absolutely no opinion on your Amy track to Tris. First, he tries to imply that the hoods are fake when they’ve been confirmed by me, Hya and Tris, then he tries to push some completely non-existent contradiction that 100% isn’t as suspicious.

How in what world is my saying that if a player never posted in their PT we’d get a negative even remotely contradict that our specific result only works on the night it’s actually used, which is why we would have gotten a negative on an NM hypothetical buddy last night.

Gamma is 100% scum because he knows what he’s saying makes no damn sense. Is he trying to save Tris by open wolfing. I’d say, clearly yes.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

For what it’s worth, I would shoot Ampharos as scum

If Amy wasn’t literally self-redirector, it would probably clear her but we know she wasn’t the intended target

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Now given that Amphy flipped something inaccurate as well it seems Maria just isn’t using proper role definitions
But you still said Jack all about having to post in PT the night you target your check
And even then what are you smoking that me not posting in PT ever makes sense? Posting in PT is like my favorite part of being scum

WHAT PART of “communication outside of the gamethread” are you incapable of processing?

~M

From what you said D2 it seemed your role wouldn’t work if someone never posted in their PT. Now it has to be a specific night? WHY?

I’m not playing this game, I’ve already answered that. How are these two statements even a contradiction? I told you that Mara said that if NM flipped scum, I’d get a negative on their buddy. Seriously I really hope you feel bad about this post-game.

~M

I most certainly will not. I feel bullied right now. You are constantly calling me scum no matter what I do, and I’m fucking sick of it. If you were to show for even a moment you actually were considering the chance I might be Town, I wouldn’t be so pissed off. But you’re not, so you’re either town who is playing extremely shitty or scum who doesn’t want to back off. So you wanna know why I’m having doubts on you, THAT’S WHY!

Well who is scum if not you then and I know despite the bs you’re peddling, I’m not. Why does scum!me claim a negative result on you then, why not just lie?

No I honestly don’t believe you’re seriously having doubts on me. You’re just hoping to provoke me into having some sort of meltdown, like you did the other day, that’s why I think it’s really shitty.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Why? I feel Ampharos was being town read heavily, i don’t understand why people think they weren’t going to get killed?

If Gamma is claiming Odd night.
Can someone explain to me the outcome he comes up both inno here and Tris is scum.

Please do not use the following statement "scum shot Amy" in that explanation.

Why can’t scum have shot Ampharos?

I don’t understand. They were likely the top town read and the person I was pushing.

I tr them but they were not even close to my top town reads: They were KD, BEF, Hya and jjh > Amy. I even asked Tris not to reveal anything I posted there to Amy because I was still slightly paranoid of her, especially after Tris told me that she claimed Lovers first and of course you were in my head with Gampharous, which confitms why I thought they didn’t make sense as buddies.

But we know what she flipped and scum!Tris would have to be insane to directly target her, so I really don’t understand how you’re arriving at that conclusion that it wasn’t literally her role and NA that got her killed. She made more than a few posts expressing her suspicions on Tris, so I think it fits.

The only thing I’m still confused on how does Hya know it’s impossible that Gamma didn’t BD her. I know you’ve already explained that @Hya but you you explain how that’s impossible? Thanks.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VMP you did target Gamma last night right?

Yes, Maria confirmed it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I didn’t want to say it yesterday, but in no world did I think VMP was actually going to be shot at.

There aren’t enough roles claimed yet, and if there’s a protective on town, then by no means was VMP going to be shot at.

You are omitting details almost purposefully, I feel.

Why not? Our role wasn’t worthless with NM townflip? Or because I said you needed dead us to confirm your role?

We’ll never know because of Amy’s NA but we do know she was sr Tris so I really don’t understand why you’re doubting Hya’s claim? Also Dunn’s reaction to my asking if Tris had already submitted her “I do” really made no sense and why does Tris have a confirmation of that but we don’t?

Unless Gamma actually did BD Tris, it does fit based off of Amy’s ISO.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VMP you did target Gamma last night right?

Apparently they did but have come up with the BS idea that I “didn’t post in the scum PT” last night which is absolutely idiotic given what I enjoy about this game nowadays

You knew I was going to TA you. Literally, I claimed that multiple times.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Why? I feel Ampharos was being town read heavily, i don’t understand why people think they weren’t going to get killed?

If Gamma is claiming Odd night.
Can someone explain to me the outcome he comes up both inno here and Tris is scum.

Please do not use the following statement "scum shot Amy" in that explanation.

Why can’t scum have shot Ampharos?

I don’t understand. They were likely the top town read and the person I was pushing.

I tr them but they were not even close to my top town reads: They were KD, BEF, Hya and jjh > Amy. I even asked Tris not to reveal anything I posted there to Amy because I was still slightly paranoid of her, especially after Tris told me that she claimed Lovers first and of course you were in my head with Gampharous, which confitms why I thought they didn’t make sense as buddies.

But we know what she flipped and scum!Tris would have to be insane to directly target her, so I really don’t understand how you’re arriving at that conclusion that it wasn’t literally her role and NA that got her killed. She made more than a few posts expressing her suspicions on Tris, so I think it fits.

The only thing I’m still confused on how does Hya know it’s impossible that Gamma didn’t BD her. I know you’ve already explained that @Hya but you you explain how that’s impossible? Thanks.

~M

This is not what I’m questioning at all.

Ampharos targeted Tris, this is fine.

Hypothetical ScumKD killing Ampharos is a possibility (among others, KD just came to my head first)

But what about that post that DnD made that was antipartnery and why did Dunn tell me he couldn’t answer any of my questions about the “I do” thing? And no offense you were dead wrong about Amy, so I’m definitely not sheeping you on Hya. I think Gamma pushing me and ludicrously twisting my words is scum indicative, so I really don’t understand why Hya is scum here?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VMP you did target Gamma last night right?

Apparently they did but have come up with the BS idea that I “didn’t post in the scum PT” last night which is absolutely idiotic given what I enjoy about this game nowadays

You knew I was going to TA you. Literally, I claimed that multiple times.

~M

This is exactly why you never would have been killed if Gamma was scum.

We obviously didn’t die because of Amy. So your theory makes absolutely no sense.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like, I’m saying this one the most basic surface level I can.

Why is everyone considering Ampharos night kill not a possibility?

No one knew her role. If it weren’t for that, maybe but her role is real and she made several posts claiming she was becoming increasingly suspicious of Tris. I just don’t see how that doesn’t make more sense to you than Amy was the target.

And Amy kill in no way clears Gamma, because Amy was freaking self-redirector ffs.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Fuck this.

One fucking read doesn’t erase the game.

You all were fucking wrong on Not Mafia

I wasn’t convinced he was scum. Did you read my posts where I pointed out why Pepper was wrong on NM not voting for anyone as scum indicative? I just wasn’t 100% convinced he was town and even if I had backed you on that Pepper was clearly tunnelled.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Like, Nancy, the reading comprehension is rough. You argue the completely wrong point so many times.

Like what? Nothing is absolutely clearing Gamma. Yes, it’s possible he could be town but he claimed BD after he already knew about my TA and I have never heard of a game having an odd night and even night town roles that are that similar and yes, if I’m Gamma!scum and I know town!Nancy will investigate me, I don’t post in the scum PT that night, so if there is an odd night TPR is likely to be someone else and until we have a mass claim, we have literally no way of knowing this. So if Gamma’s town a mass claim should confirm or debunk that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

IM LITERALLY ARGUING THAT AMPHAROS WAS THE TARGET

Okay, why does scum!Hya whom she was hard tr kill Amy?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I was fake tunneling Ampharos, so you can stop using that poor reasoning to try to discredit me

She wasn’t my top townread and if you’re going to pull a Gamma, plz fuck off with that, thanks!

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t care

Are you jester?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don’t care

Are you jester?

~M

Serious question.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

ok, i haven't read all of that, but did FL just claim to be a jester?

He’s recent posting is making me think that’s a definite possibility. Amy wasn’t my top tr. I tr KD, BEF, Hya and jjh > Amy and it sounds really nuts to me that with Amy’s role and believing she did target you but I guess it’s possible but I really don’t see why Hya lies here and I don’t believe she is. If Hya is wrong then Gamma BD’ you. I don’t believe Hya’s lying, so I think it’s got to be one or the other.

And now FL also owes me a fucking apology.

Yes it’s beyond shitty for both of you and Gamma to treat me like you did here and I would rather have 0 access to the game than be part of your dead chat, assuming it’s even real.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't believe you

Sadly, I do. He’s the Fool remember? but he still owes me a fucking apology. And if he’s lying, the game could possibly end with his flip, because God only fucking knows with this game but Hya’s obvtown.

but I suppose it’s possible and he’s trying to fuck with all of us but do we even know for a fact that this game isn’t bastard?

My head hurts now. :/

I still maintain town!Gamma never pushes me here and posts bs bullshit about my faking my role, when whatever FL, his reaction to it, lock confirmed it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

You know what the easiest thing would be to win this game as Jester would be

VOTE: 2 Venus/Mars

I’m not saying anything to confirm you if your dead chat is real,

I don’t think you’re town anymore.

I’m starting to wonder what tf you are? But hey cool. I was planning to coroner Amy/whomever flips tonight, so I guess your idiocy will deprive town of that. I have a two shot coroner, so I guess I won’t get to try that out.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

You know what the easiest thing would be to win this game as Jester would be

VOTE: 2 Venus/Mars

I’m not saying anything to confirm you if your dead chat is real,

I don’t think you’re town anymore.

I’m starting to wonder what tf you are? But hey cool. I was planning to coroner Amy/whomever flips tonight, so I guess your idiocy will deprive town of that. I have a two shot coroner, so I guess I won’t get to try that out.

~M

And unlike my TA, it works on every freaking night which is why it’s only a two shot but whatthefuckever. You should have just killed me last night or maybe Amy saved me? I really wish you hadn’t Amy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Your logic is still wrong in that last post.

There’s worlds where neither Gamma or Tris is scum.

Kamane Date and BEF team killing Ampharos is just one of the possibilities.

It’s been killing me holding all the stuff back because I was setting up to get killed later

JJH can confirm me as the Fool as well.

I want to be confirmed Fool and for you guys to kill me.

I guarantee you, I’m going to win this game without even trying

And I don’t believe you honestly think I’m scum, so God only knows wtf you’re even trying to pull here but we’re probably going to lose the game because of you, regardless of your alignment. Yeah or coroner is a serious threat. If you are not literally a jester, someone should create a scummie Dunce award. Or solid play if you’re scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Your logic is still wrong in that last post.

There’s worlds where neither Gamma or Tris is scum.

Kamane Date and BEF team killing Ampharos is just one of the possibilities.

It’s been killing me holding all the stuff back because I was setting up to get killed later

JJH can confirm me as the Fool as well.

I want to be confirmed Fool and for you guys to kill me.

I guarantee you, I’m going to win this game without even trying

And I don’t believe you honestly think I’m scum, so God only knows wtf you’re even trying to pull here but we’re probably going to lose the game because of you, regardless of your alignment. Yeah or coroner is a serious threat. If you are not literally a jester, someone should create a scummie Dunce award. Or solid play if you’re scum.

~M

Thanks Maria as if scum!FL isn’t enough of a royal pain in the ass.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Reading comprehension, you’re literally on the top of my town reads list.

This is another reason I have absolutely no clue why you go like that.

I’m LITERALLY saying you’re my top town read, and if by any means you ever think I am scum here, you’d have to be absolutely ridiculous to think I’d ever come after you in the position I was in gamestate wise.

I goddamned should be in your top town list, so wtf’s up with the two votes on us then?

No I still don’t tr Gamma because he’s played with me enough as both alignments to know I’m never scum here, so I legit think his push on me was scum motivated.

And I will lord it over all of you post-game if I’m right about that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I don't understand my role just btw everyone

Townie af.

I was 100% opposed to the Pepper gladiate. He was obvtown before that and I don’t know in what world, it’s smart play to gladiate obvtown.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Reading comprehension, you’re literally on the top of my town reads list.

This is another reason I have absolutely no clue why you go like that.

I’m LITERALLY saying you’re my top town read, and if by any means you ever think I am scum here, you’d have to be absolutely ridiculous to think I’d ever come after you in the position I was in gamestate wise.

I goddamned should be in your top town list, so wtf’s up with the two votes on us then?

No I still don’t tr Gamma because he’s played with me enough as both alignments to know I’m never scum here, so I legit think his push on me was scum motivated.

And I will lord it over all of you post-game if I’m right about that.

~M

Oh, because that’s gonna get you to Fade me tomorrow.

And you only got one vote, you’re just vote #2.

You’re roleblocking my super important coroner. How will town ever recover? Why do I feel like I’m in some SNL sketch and being punk’d?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Reading comprehension, you’re literally on the top of my town reads list.

This is another reason I have absolutely no clue why you go like that.

I’m LITERALLY saying you’re my top town read, and if by any means you ever think I am scum here, you’d have to be absolutely ridiculous to think I’d ever come after you in the position I was in gamestate wise.

I goddamned should be in your top town list, so wtf’s up with the two votes on us then?

No I still don’t tr Gamma because he’s played with me enough as both alignments to know I’m never scum here, so I legit think his push on me was scum motivated.

And I will lord it over all of you post-game if I’m right about that.

~M

Doesn’t matter if you’re right about that if I win.

Hayasaka will Gladiate me tomorrow, and I will win.

So you’re saying this game is literally bastard then? I didn’t sign up for that./. I had enough of that with your uPick game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

My first vote is roleblock.

You’re getting will boosted

I don’t understand. Are you saying my role will actually be useful tonight?

I forgot what that means - “will boosted”?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

My first vote is roleblock.

You’re getting will boosted

I don’t understand. Are you saying my role will actually be useful tonight?

I forgot what that means - “will boosted”?

~M

Sorry, “strong willer”

You wouldn’t be able to be redirected or anything with that second vote on you.

So Gamma can’t bus drive me then because there can’t possibly be more redirector type roles.

I also didn’t like Gamma’s answer about the fun thing. If scum is aware especially if they have day chat, that a TA will investigate them, then of course unless they don’t post in the scum chat that night. My role is only good as a positive and with Tris very likely flipping scum, the TA is completely useless, so actually it’s probably better used on Tris, since her flip renders my coroning Amy pretty pointless. It’s still a pretty useless role but I’m not sure if I could use it to verify if your dead chat is real or not but it’s probably wasted on me with a Tris scumflip. You should will someone with an actual useful role. Like I seriously doubt Gamma bus drives me post Tris scumflip, so wtf’s the point?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

hahaha. of course it is. looks like you and FL agree.

if everyone else could also answer when they see this, that would be great.
i'd also like to request to be willboosted tonight, FL.

Pretty much anyone is a better williboost target than me.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hayasaka tracked Ampharos to Tris. Ampharos makes their target target them at night. Ampharos death soft guilties Tris because if Tris was making a night kill, it would kill Ampharos.

But there are other possibilities. ScumYou, ScumBEF, scumJJH, ScumMe, ScumNancy, ScumGamma, Scum basically anyone could have killed Ampharos and the same results would have happened, and both Hayasaka and Nancy can’t seem to comprehend that.

i see, thanks for the explanation. basically, Ampharos could simply have been the nightkill who also happened to target tris, which is why it's a softguilty.

but you'd rather Gamma's alignment flips than Hayasaka's?

Yeah, I’m done with Gamma vs Nancy

Has Xmas come early? That would make super happy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

...wait, no, it still feels like you're town and were lying.
this game is ruining my brain.

We need to form a support group post-game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

Well I know if I die, Tris is confiscum since she claims the mods confirmed my “I do” I have real trouble believing we have a town bd + a town self-redirector even if it is on different nights. If anyone has an odd night anything, it would be great if they confirmed that, then it probably guilties Gamma because there has to be one odd night something in this setup and if someone claims that, then we know for sure Gamma’s lying but of course he could still be scum odd night, so it doesn’t necessarily mean anything. All I know is that I’m not tr his play and my negative because of my roleclaim is meaningless.

And @Gamma, despite what you may think, had you taken my advice any cased yourself and/or others as opposed to gaslighting my role claim for inane reasons, I would very likely be reconsidering.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

I’m okay with either but my sanity obviously prefers Gamma but I don’t want that to influence things. My only hesitation on Tris is that Hya dying last night would have confiscummed her right, because if her claim is valid than I still wouldn’t have been protected last night but I really don’t see why Hya lies though. If Amy self-redirected Tris, then how does that make Hya scum? Even if Amy didn’t target Tris, she obviously didn’t target Hya, so even if not Tris, her death likely points to someone she sr and if Gamma is really an odd night anything. why didn’t he just say that when FL said I get a false negative because he could self-target but he said absolutely nothing. Why @Gamma? Why didn’t you claim odd night then?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

My first vote is roleblock.

You’re getting will boosted

I don’t understand. Are you saying my role will actually be useful tonight?

I forgot what that means - “will boosted”?

~M

Sorry, “strong willer”

You wouldn’t be able to be redirected or anything with that second vote on you.

So Gamma can’t bus drive me then because there can’t possibly be more redirector type roles.

I also didn’t like Gamma’s answer about the fun thing. If scum is aware especially if they have day chat, that a TA will investigate them, then of course unless they don’t post in the scum chat that night. My role is only good as a positive and with Tris very likely flipping scum, the TA is completely useless, so actually it’s probably better used on Tris, since her flip renders my coroning Amy pretty pointless. It’s still a pretty useless role but I’m not sure if I could use it to verify if your dead chat is real or not but it’s probably wasted on me with a Tris scumflip. You should will someone with an actual useful role. Like I seriously doubt Gamma bus drives me post Tris scumflip, so wtf’s the point?

~M

Even with daychat it’s still good to regroup during the night. And again I had no idea your role worked the way you say it does. Why are you making a suggestion based on info I didn’t have? If you did say that at some point feel free to show me when and where but I remember nothing about it.

My point being that all scum!anyone would need to do for me to get a negative result is to just not post last night. That’s why my role is meaningless wrt to negatives. Because scum is aware of my role, only positives mean anything and if anything was bus driven/redirected/etc. then maybe not even that but a positive is possibly useless whereas a negative isn’t and if we get a scumflip today, it is completely useless and coroner really only has any value on flipped scum but the only flipped scum obviously had no NAs but it only tells me their specific actions, not who they’re buddies with.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

My first vote is roleblock.

You’re getting will boosted

I don’t understand. Are you saying my role will actually be useful tonight?

I forgot what that means - “will boosted”?

~M

Sorry, “strong willer”

You wouldn’t be able to be redirected or anything with that second vote on you.

So Gamma can’t bus drive me then because there can’t possibly be more redirector type roles.

I also didn’t like Gamma’s answer about the fun thing. If scum is aware especially if they have day chat, that a TA will investigate them, then of course unless they don’t post in the scum chat that night. My role is only good as a positive and with Tris very likely flipping scum, the TA is completely useless, so actually it’s probably better used on Tris, since her flip renders my coroning Amy pretty pointless. It’s still a pretty useless role but I’m not sure if I could use it to verify if your dead chat is real or not but it’s probably wasted on me with a Tris scumflip. You should will someone with an actual useful role. Like I seriously doubt Gamma bus drives me post Tris scumflip, so wtf’s the point?

~M

Even with daychat it’s still good to regroup during the night. And again I had no idea your role worked the way you say it does. Why are you making a suggestion based on info I didn’t have? If you did say that at some point feel free to show me when and where but I remember nothing about it.

My point being that all scum!anyone would need to do for me to get a negative result is to just not post last night. That’s why my role is meaningless wrt to negatives. Because scum is aware of my role, only positives mean anything and if anything was bus driven/redirected/etc. then maybe not even that but a positive is possibly usefFULL whereas a negative isn’t and if we get a scumflip today, it is completely useless and coroner really only has any value on flipped scum but the only flipped scum obviously had no NAs but it only tells me their specific actions, not who they’re buddies with.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

depending on the scum's role you can get some clears maybe?

Maybe before I claimed.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

I’m okay with either but my sanity obviously prefers Gamma but I don’t want that to influence things. My only hesitation on Tris is that Hya dying last night would have confiscummed her right, because if her claim is valid than I still wouldn’t have been protected last night but I really don’t see why Hya lies though. If Amy self-redirected Tris, then how does that make Hya scum? Even if Amy didn’t target Tris, she obviously didn’t target Hya, so even if not Tris, her death likely points to someone she sr and if Gamma is really an odd night anything. why didn’t he just say that when FL said I get a false negative because he could self-target but he said absolutely nothing. Why @Gamma? Why didn’t you claim odd night then?

~M

Because I knew no matter when I claimed odd-night it was gonna be problematic, so I opted to leave it unspoken through the night, to influence scum actions. I was trying to get Flavor to acknowledge this and he didn’t, in a game he moderated I had an Odd Night Loyal Cop and, having replaced in, my predecessor claimed the role but not the odd night modifier. Because of that I was able to fake an innocent on someone who was very likely town but everyone was suspecting first no good reason Day 3. I came clean the next day but the goal was accomplished because we had already caught the last scum by then.
The fact Flavor didn’t acknowledge that feels a little suss

Was there also something similar to an even night cop in that? If not, what was the even night role?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I’m a Jester who wins by getting faded Day 4 or after. Everything else about my role’s the same, but the Medium is told I’m a Jester.

I’m going to win the game as Jester who claimed Jester like I always said I would.

Nope, I dont believe this either

Vote:Flavor Leaf

Mars will probably remove this vote but this is where I would want it in spirit.

~Venus

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Let alone that in a scenario that 3 scum are left it means we lose if we are wrong today and you are saying that, nope.

~Venus

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I’m a Jester who wins by getting faded Day 4 or after. Everything else about my role’s the same, but the Medium is told I’m a Jester.

I’m going to win the game as Jester who claimed Jester like I always said I would.

Nope, I dont believe this either

Vote:Flavor Leaf

Mars will probably remove this vote but this is where I would want it in spirit.

~Venus

UNVOTE:

Sorry, whatever colour role PM FL got, it isn’t red.

~Mars

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Let alone that in a scenario that 3 scum are left it means we lose if we are wrong today and you are saying that, nope.

~Venus

Shiro, it’s extremely obvious who is scum and it isn’t FL. I don’t believe this game is bastard and we can win with either jester or town!FL’

I’m not fading anyone but Tris or Gamma today. My sanity obviously prefers Gamma.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

...wait, no, it still feels like you're town and were lying.
this game is ruining my brain.

We need to form a support group post-game.

~M

this is fine. i'm down.

it's not at all the same as FL's situation, but i had like... all of one good scumgame, and now those who are aware of it think i'm some sort of god of scumplay when that wasn't the case at all.

to be honest, this feels... open and shut. Hayasaka missing stuff doesn't really ring that badly to me, since i'm also still trying to wrap aspects of this game's mechanics around my brain.

like VMP's traffic analyst isn't even a traffic analyst. seriously, how shitty is that? scum can just avoid using nighttalk and only speak during the day to avoid it?
Mars, did you not mention this because mentioning it renders your role useless?

same with FL being a jester claim and also a medium. it's so much.

i guess we'll see what tris flips.

pedit: hi Venus, you're Aero, right?

Yes I did and as Gamma was twisting my words and trying to apparently convince anyone with a lobotomy that I was somehow lying about my role PM and as soon as I took even the slightest pressure off of him he joined Tris on jumping on FL.

I don’t know what Shiro is thinking but it’s pretty damned obvious FL can’t be scum here.
Shiro is Venus. Auro=Pluto is extremely busy as well as somewhat under the weather unfortunately.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Tris

Just so we're clear, this is and has been from the start of the day the only mechanically correct option

I agree but I have a theory that it might be smarter to sheep FL on Gamma, because then KD doesn’t need a willboost but I’m down with either.

FL is obviously aligned with neither since they were the only ones (except for Shiro) to jump on him. I <3 Shiro but you’re wrong.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Gamma

I’ll probably switch to Tris later but I want to see if Gamma flips back to omgussing me and using Google translate to deliberately misinterpret every single thing I’ve said about my role.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Gamma

I’ll probably switch to Tris later but I want to see if Gamma flips back to omgussing me and using Google translate to deliberately misinterpret every single thing I’ve said about my role.

~M

I want to see wagons on both of them. Call me sentimental but I get a kick out of watching scum flail.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

I’m okay with either but my sanity obviously prefers Gamma but I don’t want that to influence things. My only hesitation on Tris is that Hya dying last night would have confiscummed her right, because if her claim is valid than I still wouldn’t have been protected last night but I really don’t see why Hya lies though. If Amy self-redirected Tris, then how does that make Hya scum? Even if Amy didn’t target Tris, she obviously didn’t target Hya, so even if not Tris, her death likely points to someone she sr and if Gamma is really an odd night anything. why didn’t he just say that when FL said I get a false negative because he could self-target but he said absolutely nothing. Why @Gamma? Why didn’t you claim odd night then?

~M

Because I knew no matter when I claimed odd-night it was gonna be problematic, so I opted to leave it unspoken through the night, to influence scum actions. I was trying to get Flavor to acknowledge this and he didn’t, in a game he moderated I had an Odd Night Loyal Cop and, having replaced in, my predecessor claimed the role but not the odd night modifier. Because of that I was able to fake an innocent on someone who was very likely town but everyone was suspecting first no good reason Day 3. I came clean the next day but the goal was accomplished because we had already caught the last scum by then.
The fact Flavor didn’t acknowledge that feels a little suss

Was there also something similar to an even night cop in that? If not, what was the even night role?

~M

There was an even night gunsmith

Still different enough like TA and tracker but BD is way too similar to self-redirector. Also, why are you literally the only player who has yet to comment on Hya’s tracking Amy to Tris? You push me then FL — everyone but Tris. It’s like you’re pretending it never even happened.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

What was that game, BooneyToonz 4?

Yeah, the one with Symbiotic

Also what’s up BEF?

Barring no interference you were RB'd last night.

I would say again I should have listened to Auro but jjh is bleeding obvtown anyway. Interesting so if Amy had targeted Gamma, we’d probably have a false inno but outed TA negative is meaningless especially if scum have daytalk and Gamma pushing me, FL but staying silent on Tris speaks volumes.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

What was that game, BooneyToonz 4?

Yeah, the one with Symbiotic

Also what’s up BEF?

Barring no interference you were RB'd last night.

I would say again I should have listened to Auro but jjh is bleeding obvtown anyway. Interesting so if Amy had targeted Gamma, we’d probably have a false inno but outed TA negative is meaningless especially if scum have daytalk and Gamma pushing me, FL but staying silent on Tris speaks volumes.

~M

I guess Tris is 100% guiltied now if Gamma was rb’d. I probably don’t even need to worry about being the NK anymore since I might as well be glorified vt now,

VOTE: Tris

Gamma’s still her buddy, bank on it but BEF’s rb kind’ve seals it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Fish, who do you want flipped? Gamma again?
also, FL, have you considered willboosting me at all? :>

Like that’s my only concern with fading Tris > Gamma. If FL doesn’t willboost you, Gamma will probably BD you.

@FL, your williboost is a complete waste on me, no one is going to redirect me tomorrow.

If FL doesn’t willinoost you, I might switch back to Gamma.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

And yes, KD, I have.

I’m VLA now.

Williboosted him?

Welp, looking fwd to one more day of scum)Gamma gaslighting. Fun times.

Because if you don’t we have to fade Gamma so he can’t bus drive KD but if you do, then Tris is the correct fade due to BEF’s Gamma rb.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@KD, I don’t know what you’re role is but unless we fade Gamma today, if BEF is williboosted and rbs him, he can’t redirect you, so I think either works.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@KD, I don’t know what you’re role is but unless we fade Gamma today, if BEF is williboosted and rbs him, he can’t redirect you, so I think either works.

~M

@BEF, you’re an ungated rb, correct?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't believe you

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

I’m okay with either but my sanity obviously prefers Gamma but I don’t want that to influence things. My only hesitation on Tris is that Hya dying last night would have confiscummed her right, because if her claim is valid than I still wouldn’t have been protected last night but I really don’t see why Hya lies though. If Amy self-redirected Tris, then how does that make Hya scum? Even if Amy didn’t target Tris, she obviously didn’t target Hya, so even if not Tris, her death likely points to someone she sr and if Gamma is really an odd night anything. why didn’t he just say that when FL said I get a false negative because he could self-target but he said absolutely nothing. Why @Gamma? Why didn’t you claim odd night then?

~M

Because I knew no matter when I claimed odd-night it was gonna be problematic, so I opted to leave it unspoken through the night, to influence scum actions. I was trying to get Flavor to acknowledge this and he didn’t, in a game he moderated I had an Odd Night Loyal Cop and, having replaced in, my predecessor claimed the role but not the odd night modifier. Because of that I was able to fake an innocent on someone who was very likely town but everyone was suspecting first no good reason Day 3. I came clean the next day but the goal was accomplished because we had already caught the last scum by then.

The fact Flavor didn’t acknowledge that feels a little suss

You do realize you’re saying this about someone who couldn’t remember that Shiro and me played two of his games back to back and nevertheless still mixed me up with Auro.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Not gonna lie, I like Shiro’s fire against me this game

Btw, Tris was pushing you in our hood and when I encouraged her to neighbourized KD next, she totally nixed it. I think that if BEF is ungated rb and he is williboosted the, KD gets his NA done without being bus driven and we’ll have a no kill, right?

A williboosted rb can stop an NK right? Because this way we kill two birds with one stone, where as if you just williboost KD, he obviously won’t be rb’d but scum!Gamma can still kill. But if BEF is odd night rb, KD then becomes the optimal williboost candidate.

What do you think about this @KD, @BEF?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

And you also did not make it clear at all that not posting that night would cause a false inno?
Like, your claim here is just insanity. Why do I forgo communicating with my partner, which a) hurts coordination and b) makes the game less fun for me, off of a piece of role specifics you never made evident? If you’re not scum, you’re straight up playing awful.

I wish I could frame this post-game. I guess Gamma really does think I’m an idiot.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@KD, I don’t know what you’re role is but unless we fade Gamma today, if BEF is williboosted and rbs him, he can’t redirect you, so I think either works.

~M

@BEF, you’re an ungated rb, correct?

~M

Non Consecutive. I holstered N1. So I'll be up again on N4.

I can also 1-shot

day

commute someone.

Haven't used it yet.

Ah okay, then I guess KD should get FL’s williboost then. If I’m right, you probably won’t be needing to worry about N4.

Day commute? Don’t you mean night? because if you can self-target at night I would but a day commute would do what? prevent someone from voting? Well if we fade Tris, then Gamma is the only logical option if it actually happens during the day.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

That crier message I had there was limited to 300 characters

Anyhow, lemme think about implications

You hear something in the middle of the night:

Crier message:

Okay I guess I need to put effort into this game now

I'll figure some shit out after the flip tbh

Got nothing from my action N1.



If I die, expect my contribution D4 via FL. This should come along with identifying information that proves his role. Proof of role doesn't mean town, though. Be cautious.

Cool, we didn’t even need to waste our TA on jjh.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Daenerys and Dragons has been faded. They were...

Spoiler: The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Welcome Daenerys and Dragons you are

The Devil

You are a 1 shot action negator/mailman sided with with the Mafia

Abilities:

The first action used on your target won't work in the event more than one action is used on your target negitive actions take priority
During the night you may pm me a message to send to another player.

It is now night 1. Send actions to MariaR.

(expired on 2020-08-29 23:00:00)

This is interesting. DnD is scum mailman and jjh town crier, which makes Gamma BD scum even more likely with self-redirector town!Amy.

So, scum likely has a complementary role with one townie: DnD/jjh, Gamma?/Amy, FL?/Tris. If FL is jester and not town, that also works since Tris told me that she didn’t believe his role was real because of hers. But Tris!scum means that FL is either jester or town.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

You hear something in the middle of the night:

My inactivity is a ruse! Silencing me before I give detailed reads would be useful information

tris, KD, GE, Hayasaka, Amy, VMP, Fish town

Pooky scum unless good mechanics clear behaviour

. DP maybe scum- sometimes it's that easy
I don't try to read NM or FL. Lynch if no better options

Note: Hierophant

Oh okay, misunderstood. jjh doesn’t actually send messages to anyone except the mods.

Still obviously town though, this and especially 2163.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i don't have much to add here, i guess. flip tris or Gamma.

but i'd still like to hear everyone's replies to who they would want alignment flipped in this situation.

I’m okay with either but my sanity obviously prefers Gamma but I don’t want that to influence things. My only hesitation on Tris is that Hya dying last night would have confiscummed her right, because if her claim is valid than I still wouldn’t have been protected last night but I really don’t see why Hya lies though. If Amy self-redirected Tris, then how does that make Hya scum? Even if Amy didn’t target Tris, she obviously didn’t target Hya, so even if not Tris, her death likely points to someone she sr and if Gamma is really an odd night anything. why didn’t he just say that when FL said I get a false negative because he could self-target but he said absolutely nothing. Why @Gamma? Why didn’t you claim odd night then?

~M

Because I knew no matter when I claimed odd-night it was gonna be problematic, so I opted to leave it unspoken through the night, to influence scum actions. I was trying to get Flavor to acknowledge this and he didn’t, in a game he moderated I had an Odd Night Loyal Cop and, having replaced in, my predecessor claimed the role but not the odd night modifier. Because of that I was able to fake an innocent on someone who was very likely town but everyone was suspecting first no good reason Day 3. I came clean the next day but the goal was accomplished because we had already caught the last scum by then.
The fact Flavor didn’t acknowledge that feels a little suss

Was there also something similar to an even night cop in that? If not, what was the even night role?

~M

There was an even night gunsmith

Still different enough like TA and tracker but BD is way too similar to self-redirector. Also, why are you literally the only player who has yet to comment on Hya’s tracking Amy to Tris? You push me then FL — everyone but Tris. It’s like you’re pretending it never even happened.

~M

Except I have made note of it. And with your little quip about “google translating” your role you’ve officially pissed me off. I was playing nice because it looked like you were but now you decided to hit below the belt again, so the gloves are fucking off.

How is this post even remotely “below the belt”? I never once insulted you or attacked your character like you did to me. Since when are pointing out facts a bad thing? Are you actually trying to get yourself faded over Tris?

FACT: You omgussed me and never commented on Hya’s Amy track to Tris but sure that’s 100% “below the belt”. Oh yeah you did actually vote her but also managed to throw shade at FL. Proof is in your posts but sure keep trying to spin it.

Well, the very suspicious way you deliberately misinterpret virtually everything I’ve said about my role is extremely pinging but you’re right



I definitely owe Google translate an apology because they unlike you, do it by accident, where as I believe you did that deliberately to attempt to gaslight me.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

It seems like my thought about “whose agenda needs Amphy dead” resulted in the same suspects as this current line of thought is already on (me and tris) with like FL included on the side
VOTE: tris
Since both night actions and my own thoughts about who’d be motivated to kill Amphy line up to implicate tris there’s no reason not to vote here.

Fuck you, Mars.

Yes and that is literally the ONLY post where you did that, probably because you relized that town isn’t stupid enough to take seriously your attempts to misrep what I’ve claimed about my role. Proof is freaking in your goddamned posts of you shading both me and FL.

Oh and right back at you. You chose to play the way you have, that’s 100% on you, so stop freaking blaming everyone else for that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

And you also did not make it clear at all that not posting that night would cause a false inno?
Like, your claim here is just insanity. Why do I forgo communicating with my partner, which a) hurts coordination and b) makes the game less fun for me, off of a piece of role specifics you never made evident? If you’re not scum, you’re straight up playing awful.

I wish I could frame this post-game. I guess Gamma really does think I’m an idiot.

~M

I mean, does that make me scum? Because I do think that rn. I’m not pulling my punches anymore.

Sure.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Mars: i did read all of your discussion (and Fish's answers) and questions, but unfortunately i can just say: yes, directly willboosting me would still be ideal.
also, i'd rather not be added to a hood, i doubt i'd be any help in there. but thanks for asking for me.

Gamma, Mars, i'm tired of reading this argument between you two. i don't care who started it or who is continuing it.

You can’t because it’s Tris who is a neighbourizer. My point is that she nixed it when I suggested it. Yes, now that I understand BEF’s role better, agree.

I am too but I’m not allowing Gamma or anyone else to get away with all of the crap he’s pulled on me this game, including using every opportunity to attempt to throw shade on my role, which I’ve 100% done my level best to be as transparent about as possible. Auro asked me why I didn’t report him the other day when he made like a gazillion posts calling me some variation of “stupid” and I told him because the mods would very likely have done nothing about it anyway.

I honestly believe town!Gamma would never try to so egregiously misrep everything I’ve claimed about my role but would instead react very similar to how you did and Amy as well, when I was pushing both of you.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

pedit: hi Venus, you're Aero, right?

Nope I am shiro

~Venus

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Not gonna lie, I like Shiro’s fire against me this game

Aaaaw <3
I havent really done much tbh, Nancy has carried us for the most part, we were onl;y behind the scenes xD

~Venus

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

is it bad i kind of TR Gamma?
i would rather tris go down today.

a VC would be nice, but i don't have the will to put one together myself.

Well, I hard tr you, plus DnD TMItowned you. BEF is super obvtown, ditto Hya and I just found posts townfirming jjh as well and both Tris and Gamma jumped on FL. I know we’re town, so who else could it possibly be?

Gamma still has not yet cased himself and/or others like I suggested and he’s only throwing shade at me and possibly FL.

I would absolutely love it if Gamma were to obvtown but he continues to do everything possible to keep pinging me.

So if it’s not Gamma than who? Who have I been mistakingly tr? That’s my dilemma.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Yes, BEF rb, makes Tris 100% guiltied because that proves she couldn’t have been bus driven.

Ok @Gamma, if I’m actually wrong on you, then tell me who is scum? I honestly don’t want to misfade you but based off your play since D2 + doubts about your role + your ridiculous and extremely sketchy attempts to misrep my role, from mpov. who would you think is most logically likely to be scum here?

I honestly want an answer to this because if I’m wrong, you have to give me something to work with here and so far, I’ve come up empty handed.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

unfortunately, i'm not sure it's something that can be dealt with in the thread. i have my own opinions but they're not ones i'd like to have a discussion about here, but i do think it'd be better to avoid engaging with him. if he's scum he's going down, i can guarantee that. just, probably after tris because i prefer her today.

i commented that you didn't reveal exactly how your role works because it'd tell scum how to avoid it (did you confirm this?) and that it's a very weird role and not really what my understanding of traffic analyst is. which, in this game is not surprising, but it is worth noting. a vanilla traffic analyst shouldn't care if the player ever posted in their PT, it should just detect the PT. a role that only detects on a night by night basis if a PT is being

used

is something i can honestly say i've never seen before.

i do hate when players personally insult each other. i didn't like FL's doing it either. but your role itself

is

absolutely a really confusing one.

Okay, sure. We can investigate if a player has had communication outside of the game thread on the specific night we investigate. That’s how we got a positive on FL. So what Gamma said about us getting a negative on a player who has never posted in their PT as well as a player who has every day and night, except for the specific night we investigate. So if we weren’t actually outed TA, then we’d likely have an almost near clear on Gamma but, because we’re outed and especially if scum have daytalk, if Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

I was heavily tr him until his play seemed to change after jjh and BEF expressed suspicions on him and all of his so-called strategic talk has only fuelled this.

From his claim that his defeatist AtE with that ridiculous Survivor video was faked to see if scum would jump on him whatever to his recent response to me about neglecting to inform us about his role being odd night, really pinged me. It read to me like he just seemed to have a convenient explanation for everything. Gamma has played more than enough games with me, to know that I’m never scum here - yet another thing that has pinged me, plus he has yet to take my casing advice which was clearly meant to help him if town.

I tunnelled both you and Amy but both of you, especially you, gave me good reasons to back off and reconsider. I’m still waiting for Gamma to do that. I told him that if he does something to make it clear to me he’s town, I will like I did with both you and Amy, back off and look elsewhere but so far his play has objectively been the scummiest, so yeah, it’s great we have objectively guiltied scum but Gamma’s play hasn’t done really much to make me think I’m wrong.

What does definitely puzzle me though is why he continues to target me specifically, when the entire playerlist is currently sr him. Sad to say but in almost every damn game I’ve ever been town in, scum ALWAYS focuses specifically on me. Whether they try to push me, buddy me, play me etc., so yes, add that to yet another thing that’s pinged me, because I am never ever ignored by scum in any game ever, probably because of what FL said about it being easy for scum to “work me”, so Gamma’s behaviour towards me just keeps fuelling my paranoia about him being the last scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

but for what it's worth, i don't think it's strange that tris's role would confirm to her but not to the other player she's claiming to protect. it' her role, so her having the confirmations make sense. giving a protect target information about a protect on them isn't something usually seen, and would be giving credence to a role that the setup might be built around being an uncomfirmed role.

tris gave the same theory, now that i look.
i keep looking at 2176 and i'm getting nothing.

It's funny how FL accidently saved the town.
I tracked Amy to Tris.

Someone think about that for me before I gladiate

I can see what conclusion you're drawing here, but i'm not a killer. Still, it doesn't make sense that mafia would kill Amy. could this be a result of gamma busdriving? does that clear gamma. which in that case, who actually is mafia then? Flavor and jjh? are you actually mafia or something? that can't be right.

did the mafia actually decide to kill amy? that's a very odd move.

well, i guess we should hear what gamma has to say

I’m seriously confused by this because I don’t see why Hya would lie and then Dunn had this really strange reaction to my questions, which would make sense if this is some kind of fake gambit and Amy was sr Tris and yes it’s possible she could have been the target but Hya claims he tracked Amy to Tris.

UNVOTE:

for now.

If Amy targeted Tris then how can she not be scum though, especially now that BEF claimed to rb Gamma. And Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so how is she not guitied scum here?

VOTE: Tris

Unless you think Hya is lying and BEF too, I don’t see how she’s not scum here?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Yes, BEF rb, makes Tris 100% guiltied because that proves she couldn’t have been bus driven.

well... not quite. if Amy was the nightkill target initially, any scum could have killed her, so tris is not 100% guiltied.

and i agree with FL that it was possible for her to be the kill target. so, softguilty at best. this is why i'm reading now.

Yeah that is true, it is possible.

UNVOTE:

For now. But if Gamma was rb’d it obviously couldn’t have been him either.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

why is jjh definitely definitely town, again? i've just been accepting that but i don't remember why now.

I think so based off of those crier messages I posted but wow, if I’m wrong, then I will be kicking myself for not listening to Auro. My NA was totally predicated on hoping to get a guilty on Gamma but then if jjh isn’t town. who is his buddy?

If Tris and Gamma are actually both town here, then I’ve got two reads completely wrong, so occam’s razor points to my not being wrong.

But I know you have great reads and your my #1 town, so I want to hear any theories you have.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

but how would Gamma know to avoid posting? as far as i am aware, you didn't claim this aspect of your role until today.

i am also aware the wiki does list it as a possible variation, however, though i had never heard of that before.

Traffic Analyst
Alias:
PT Cop
Alignment: any
Role type:
Investigative
Choice:
Night
A Traffic Analyst is a role that is capable of checking to see whether a player can privately communicate. As an informative role, its night choice is to choose a player, and the analyst will learn whether or not there are any players that that player can legally communicate with outside the game thread. (The identity of the people that the target can communicate with is not learned, nor is the content of the communications.)

Note that merely having access to a private topic is not necessarily enough to be able to communicate; there will have to be a second living player in the private topic in question to communicate with. In general, the role will give a "can communicate" result on a player who shares a private topic with another living player, and also on roles that can use active roles to relay messages via the moderator (such as Mailman and Captain); and a "cannot communicate" result on anyone else.

I kind of think that’s self-evident based off of this, don’t you? Also, just realized from this, that I would have definitely gotten a meaningless positive on jjh because of his crier role.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

also, i know there is a lot from your recent posts i am not specifically responding to. i have to pick a choose things i have something to say about, i don't have the focus to touch on everything in long posts, even when i am completely reading them. but if i miss something important by all means, point it out.

Sure but whether or not Gamma would know or not, because my role was outed, it’s not a clear and honestly I think anyone who read this description from Mafia Wiki could definitely have figured it out. Remember, Gamma was the first one (followed by FL) to point out that my role was worthless in the event of NM flipping scum, so I’d say that points to him understanding my role even better than I do.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

no, Haya and Fish can all be telling the truth.

as an example: i'm scum, i target Amy to kill her. Amy targets tris.
Amy forces all actions tris makes to target Amy. tris does anything besides a kill.

result: Amy is dead from my kill, Amy still targeted tris. just wasn't murdered by tris, since tris didn't make a killing action.
this is what FL was arguing, i believe.

and yes, if Gamma is the other scum, him being rbed would mean he couldn't have made the kill... but that's an if. so still not a hard guilty.

pedit: ah, alright.

So that much is definitely clear, right? Gamma did 100% not kill Amy, unless BEF is lying and I don’t see why he’d do that, plus he’s super obvtown here for like a gazillion reasons.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

this is also why i asked about your certainty on jjh. i know he hasn't been reading everything, or at least missing mechanical stuff, but he claims tris is 100% the mechanical vote to make today even though FL argued this was not the case.

i'd like to see more talk about this with this in mind considering the stakes of today's elimination.

Well, I do admit to wondering how he knew DnD was lockscum before the rest of us but Idk?

but yeah, you and FL could be right. I really don’t know what to think anymore.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

like, we have 12 entire days. i consider this important. even with FL's V/LA he's going to come back before we're running out of time.

i've been letting this game fall by the wayside, and i apologize for that. but if you and others are down to play this day through, let's play it.

pedit: aw, thank you.
my analysis right now is probably not great because i am still working on getting myself fully into things and rereading/reading posts i've missed. but i'll do my best.

i didn't fully ISO jjh, but i would certainly feel better about him if more of his analysis had made it to the thread than it has.

<3

Being able to locktown in any game is always a good thing. Especially since I’m obviously carrying my hydra and Auro has not been able to fully engage with the game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

like, we have 12 entire days. i consider this important. even with FL's V/LA he's going to come back before we're running out of time.

i've been letting this game fall by the wayside, and i apologize for that. but if you and others are down to play this day through, let's play it.

pedit: aw, thank you.
my analysis right now is probably not great because i am still working on getting myself fully into things and rereading/reading posts i've missed. but i'll do my best.

i didn't fully ISO jjh, but i would certainly feel better about him if more of his analysis had made it to the thread than it has.

<3

Being able to locktown YOU in any game is always a good thing. Especially since I’m obviously carrying my hydra and Auro has not been able to fully engage with the game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@Mars I think if tris flips scum it is probably FL. tris and D&D both generally had weird reads on FL, tris’ first post towards FL is a bit weird, and D&D’s scum pool at one point rule-of-three implicates FL.

Moving to something else, I’m still not “casing” but the idea I changed my behavior in response to jjh and BEF, now that I’ve thought about it, just doesn’t seem like the truth. The only real shift I felt was when you made the big deal about “if we die it makes Gamma suspicious”. Because there’s ways to be subtle about that but by failing that you put me into defensive mode.

I don’t want to be mean but I’ve sorta lost the ability to be nice by now just FYI. I understand if you don’t want to play with me again but I feel like barring when you let emotions dictate your play, you’re good at the game.

I panicked after I outed our role and since you were my strongest sr att, I thought that maybe we wouldn’t die if I did that and yes, I did think our death did likely implicate you but we’re obviously not dead. It did honestly appear to me that way but I want to fade whomever did kill Amy and that obviously can’t be you.

If you’re town here than I obviously over reacted but I get extremely tilted whenever my intelligence gets questioned. I literally had a man yell at me once, “Are you stupid”? to some completely innocuous question I had asked and it sent me bawling. No, I’m not going to blacklist you if that’s what you’re asking. We have too much really good history for that too happen.

Spoiler:

A50 otoh, completely different story. ISO him in Boon’s TBoNTB, I think the difference is obvious.

Well yes, after you made all of those posts about my intelligence, it 100% did impact my ability to read you clearly like I said, which was frustrating as hell.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

but how would Gamma know to avoid posting? as far as i am aware, you didn't claim this aspect of your role until today.

i am also aware the wiki does list it as a possible variation, however, though i had never heard of that before.

Traffic Analyst
Alias:
PT Cop
Alignment: any
Role type:
Investigative
Choice:
Night
A Traffic Analyst is a role that is capable of checking to see whether a player can privately communicate. As an informative role, its night choice is to choose a player, and the analyst will learn whether or not there are any players that that player can legally communicate with outside the game thread. (The identity of the people that the target can communicate with is not learned, nor is the content of the communications.)

Note that merely having access to a private topic is not necessarily enough to be able to communicate; there will have to be a second living player in the private topic in question to communicate with. In general, the role will give a "can communicate" result on a player who shares a private topic with another living player, and also on roles that can use active roles to relay messages via the moderator (such as Mailman and Captain); and a "cannot communicate" result on anyone else.

I kind of think that’s self-evident based off of this, don’t you? Also, just realized from this, that I would have definitely gotten a meaningless positive on jjh because of his crier role.

~M

I made this point before, but the wiki says “CAN communicate”. Have you not heard the joke about the teacher who responds to “can I use the bathroom” with “I don’t know, can you?” Based on the Wiki, the role shouldn’t get a different result if someone doesn’t actually use it. Now we all know by now Maria didn’t use any level of common sense in role definitions and I’ll be reaming her post game for sure for that + horrible vote tracking, but you can only expect so much, and the fact the role deviates that hard is imo a bit bastard

Well you can take that up with her post-game.

But yeah, it is on the same night. Our even more useless coroner is every night including the most recent one but it only tell us what actions that player performed, so in the case of a scumflip, we’d find out all of the NAs that player made but not who they had any communication with, so I don’t even understand why we even have such a completely useless role, unless there is literally a janitor in this setup.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Mars: okay, i believe you're right in that Gamma could have reasonably believed that you needed a post from him to guilty him and could have avoided that. so it's not an inno.

also, it may be a good idea to simply ask Maria directly if you would get a positive result on the player who is making the crier messages. just to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

Gamma: do you have a read on jjh?

Dunn literally gave us a link to the Wiki, so I’m assuming yes.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

it doesn't let you see who they targeted?

Yes of course but not who they communicated with, so we wouldn’t be able to find out their buddy iow.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@Mars I think if tris flips scum it is probably FL.

tris and D&D both generally had weird reads on FL, tris’ first post towards FL is a bit weird, and D&D’s scum pool at one point rule-of-three implicates FL.

.

Link or quote?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

ugh. i'm gonna be light SRing Ampharos for the whole game, partly in reaction to the townreads she's accruing. what makes this difficult is she's working with a different site culture than what i'm used to. and her play looks high-level, which isn't AI but does always succeed in pressing the paranoia button.
i agree with her takes, i think. to echo her thoughts on Flavor Leaf, i need to see her really push something.

you know, I think I have to take a step back a bit on my ampharos read as well. I thought her presence in the beginning of the game was strong and initially townread her for that, but it’s dropped off a lot since then so she’s probably now close to null for me.

- Daenerys

630 confitowns KD.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

it doesn't let you see who they targeted?

Yes of course but not who they communicated with, so we wouldn’t be able to find out their buddy iow.

~M

this is still useful. if a dead scum roleblocker for example is targeted by you, and they targeted someone, that player is probably not scum. am i misunderstanding how it works?

The description is extremely vague. All it tells me is that I’d get all that player’s NAs throughout the entire game but not their results, so really couldn’t answer that.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

Scum
D&D: The Devil - upright
- 1 shot action negator/mailman
- can PM a message to another player through the mod
- bringing negative tendencies to light, attachment

Town
Pooky: The Magician - upright
- ascetic innocent child Arcana cop
- power, focus, significant ability

DrPepper: Strength - reversed
- vengeful/learns number of players that visit them at night
- self-doubt, inner strength, raw emotional reaction

Not Mafia: Justice - upright
- whatever the hell the first part means
- passive [balance] vote when being voted while not voting another player
- justice, fairness, an equal measured response

Ampharos: The Lovers - reversed
- neighbour with tris
- even night targeted redirector
- hated or loved based on action of target
- self-love, disharmony, strained relationships

???
tris: The Lovers - upright
- neighbourizer/conditional BP with neighbours
- choices, unity of two forces

VMP: The Chariot - reversed
- traffic analyst/coroner
- powerlessness, lack of direction

Flavor Leaf: The Fool - reversed?
- has two votes/medium
- one roleblocks, the other brings the player he is voting into his medium PT during the day
- at night deaths automatically go to his PT
- maybe also a jester
- i'm at a loss regarding the tarot meaning

jjh: High Priestess - upright
- crier/targets Arcana and role hits corresponding player
- subconsciousness (we sleep at night?), intuition, divine wisdom

Hayasaka: The Emperor - reversed
- gladiator/conditional tracker
- domination, asserting control

Gamma: The Devil - reversed
- odd-night bus drive
- freedom from limitations, detachment

Fish: Unclaimed/Tower? - reversed?
- non-consecutive roleblocker
- 1-shot day commuter
- resisting change, delaying disaster

other notes:
the Devil and the Lovers counterpart each other, both representing a relationship between two people and visually echoing each other. it makes sense they're the only Arcana with multiple holders. anyone with more knowledge than me might be able to elaborate on this.




this isn't useful, but i went through the trouble so i'm going to post it for interest's sakem i was hoping something about claims could be discovered but while things

fit

, a lot of it is a fairly loose interpretation from me.
but it's enough i'm unwilling to claim my own arcana today.

I’d say if Tris flips scum lovers, it may possibly point to Gamma!town as well as confirming my scum doppelgänger theory but I dunno but I still thing mechanically the evidence likely points to Tris.

Amy track and she was the only one who expressed strong suspicions of Tris, so Tris could have presumably targeted her, plus the whole “I do” thing still not getting confirmed for me doesn’t seem right, so probably where I’m voting today, barring any new info that could change my mind.

KD/BEF/Hya are my confident townblock, in any case.

~Mars

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: 1 Gamma Emerald
VOTE: 2 Tris

?????

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: 1 Gamma Emerald
VOTE: 2 Tris

?????

~M

My first vote is roleblock.

You’re getting will boosted

You’re williboosting Tris???

Oh you’re mediumizing her?

Oh nm, I guess maybe a williboost isn’t needed then?

Nm, just disregard the earlier post.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I would appreciate it if everyone who hasn't already would claim their flavour though

I am the high priestess

i thought you were the hierophant?

No, I targeted the hierophant n1 because my role targets arcana rather than players

Hierophant isn't in the game

What happens when you target arcana that is in the game?

If you already explained this, please link me, thanks.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Off chance Tris is town, best to bring her into the medium.

Plus, i can just roleblock Gamma, and if they’re the scum team, it’s gg.

Yeah, that’s what I figured.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

jjh is locktown for me. I reread that day 2 start message during the time my gambit was happening and figured he was the one who sent it, and I town locked him from that point on

could you explain this in more depth? why can't scum make that crier message?

Well there’s the fact he didn’t seem to expect Poiky to die, that could be faked but I also think between the two messages he’s demonstrated a solid aura of being comfortable, which I think scum wouldn’t feel rn

“comfortable”? but Pooky point, I can see that part of it.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

reads are something like:

{haya}
{ampharos, kaname}

{everyone else}
{gamma, FL, sailor girls}

- Daenerys

This is where I’m seeing a rule of three against Flavor

As for the other things, one is very early in tris’ ISO, and the other is a behavioral pattern, I could cite specific posts but I think it’s better to combined ISO tris and D&D, they both seemed averse to voting Flavor D1, D&D especially

Scum usually don’t put buddies at the top of their list. Amy dead town and 2/3 of my top townreads at the top. Did their list change after they were hammered though? Rule of the 3 generally refers to scum when they’re on their way down.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

ugh. i'm gonna be light SRing Ampharos for the whole game, partly in reaction to the townreads she's accruing. what makes this difficult is she's working with a different site culture than what i'm used to. and her play looks high-level, which isn't AI but does always succeed in pressing the paranoia button.
i agree with her takes, i think. to echo her thoughts on Flavor Leaf, i need to see her really push something.

you know, I think I have to take a step back a bit on my ampharos read as well. I thought her presence in the beginning of the game was strong and initially townread her for that, but it’s dropped off a lot since then so she’s probably now close to null for me.

- Daenerys

630 confitowns KD.

~M

Idk about conftown but it does point to KD being town

Scum don’t usually change their reads because of what a buddy says, so yeah.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Gamma, if you’re town, you’re just wrong.

Don’t argue at me.

Like, nothing you say towards me in that manner matters at all because I know I’m not red.

Based on role claims, it’s unlikely that both neighbourizing roles are scum and Tris sr you because based on her role, yours is suspect, so mechanically. a Tris/FL team makes 0 sense, because in the event of a Tris scumflip, two scum neighbourizer type roles are highly unlikely.

Tris responded very similar to me as scum!Rando did in Labrynth, except for her push on you and her nixing my KD neighbourize suggestion but she insisted she tr Amy while respecting my slight paranoia on her but seemed quite fine with backing me on my Gamma suspicions. Her response to my Gamma read made me feel kind of pocketed similar with Rando.

However without the Amy flip and Hya track, she would have 100% had me pocketed but if her “I do” thing was on the level, I think I should have gotten confirmation of it by now. I got confirmation of my Gamma TA, so why not that?

Don’t know if any of this is useful but it obviously will if she flips scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

initial thoughts:
- townlean on Hayasaka, her panic over possibly-gladiating Kaname sounds genuine
- agree with Cakes on not liking pooky's vote on prune after the joke had, like, already ended
- I like kaname's vote/opinion on dr. pepper; townlean on kaname as well.
- fish fluffposting is bad
- Flavor Leaf's scumread on tris is ??? this makes no sense:

Spoiler: @FL

Also, I understand why people would town read tris, at least after where I was in my catchup when I made that post which is why I wasn't going to bring it up quite yet. The main point from my initial post regarding Tris was the timing of whoever said they were townie vibes, because that came before I started to be able to see some town sides in Tris, but then we got positioned onto tris moreso than my actual questioning of this

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

The post was actually me pushing something off about Ampharos, not Tris.

when you were questioned on your tris read, you said it was really an ampharos read, but in 121 you said that tris "screamed" scum. Why would you say that directly after 120 if you weren't using 120 to develop your tris read? What else in tris's ISO, then, were you calling scummy?

It feels like FL is like weirdly positioning himself around both ampharos and tris with 120/121

- am on board with gamma wagon

I made it to page 9, have to run unfortunately. More later!

- Daenerys

This very likely points to Tris and FL not buddies, especially if Tris flips scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

DnD

want to be massons with me?

I'll pass and I think Daenerys would too

290
why is the progression bad? thinking a player is a newbie and realizing they really are not is often going to change a read considerably.

Because it feels more like backpedaling due to pressure rather then a genuine reassessment

Dragons

More evidence of KD!town. Whatever your alignment Gamma, DnD is trying really hard to make you look like a buddy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

.... he is.... in my top tier.... of scumreads....

Yeah, but it’s almost coming across like tactical positioning, almost to act like you have some sort of pressure somewhere to make it seem like you’re doing something.

Gamma was a third scum read, Venus was your first. Why wasn’t your vote on Venus, or at least on me? You actively made the choice to go to Gamma over the other 2 higher for a reason.

I legit don't know what you're asking me about. They're in the same tier because it's not like one in particular is higher over another. We were already voting Gamma, so the vote stays on Gamma. If we feel like our vote is no longer useful there or we get a stronger read on someone else, then we'll move it to someone else who's in our scumreads.

If you're scumreading me for questioning posts that are definitely questionable, then just come out and say it.

- Daenerys

Why are you so quick to jump to conclusions?

I’m simply questioning what I would like to understand.

"I feel like there's wolves in the people who are slightly trying to push me, but not pooky and not amph." Hmmmmmmmmmm wonder who else you could be talking about?

- Daenerys

FL definitely not a DnD buddy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

here is final readslist:

{Hayasaka}
{Kaname}
{everyone else}

{gamma, jjh, VMP, fish, FL, pooky}

I am totally aware that being wagoned might be contributing to me scumreading almost everyone on the wagon but I can’t figure out how to not let it affect my reads so /shrug

Again, I wanna point out that almost no one has given actual reasons for being on the wagon, with the exception of, I think VMP, gamma, and tris. No one has defended against the wagon. sorry but yall kinda fucked yourselves because I don’t even know how to figure out what people’s alignments are based on this wagon, sooooo good luck

I was in the process of writing up a really long reply to VMP last night, but the gist of it is that I feel like they’ve dodged every question I’ve tried to ask them by either asking me why I asked it, giving a patronizing non-answer, etc; have picked apart our posts word by word to find things to shade us for; and in general I feel like have been pretty condescending towards us. (I guess the last thing isn’t a reason to scumread them, I just don’t like it and that influences my feelings about their slot.) I’m also somewhat suspicious of them and Gamma together, because Gamma said something about fish voting gamma that I had already said earlier, and VMP tossed an easy townread at Gamma but it didn’t change anything about their read on us. (This is why I asked that question about whether or not we were in their POE.)

jjh has very little content in recent days other than saying we’re scum (and no reasons for it)

pooky seems to be also dodging questions/content and has been shitposting; when I asked him for reads, he flat-out ignored me; and just seems content to just skate by without doing anything substantive

FL hammer was bad, he previously had said that our slot is likely green and a miselim

I liked gamma’s more recent posting a bit better but he basically hasn’t done anything except complain about his vote recently and I didn’t like the vote to begin with

fish I can’t quite put my finger on, I think it bothers me that he supposedly thinks my attempts to engage with him were scum-motivated, but like, unless he thinks Gamma and I are scum together, if I were scum surely I’d want him on the gamma wagon?

- Daenerys

@Gamma would you call this the rule of the five?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Day commute? Don’t you mean night? because if you can self-target at night I would but a day commute would do what? prevent someone from voting? Well if we fade Tris, then Gamma is the only logical option if it actually happens during the day.

~M

I have to perform the action during the day, the targets commutes that night. It has something like a loud modifier too so it will be confirmed to everyone.

EBWOP

target*

Well then if possible you should probably either self-target today or target someone who you tr without NAs tonight.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Have we confirmed the existence of the medium?

No not yet because no one he has mediumed has said anything that can be validated by anyone still living in the playerlist, possibly because no one who has been medumed so far has had much familiarity with much of the playerlist. Like Hya for example mentioned “cooldodge” but if FL say hypothetically posted that in the thread and Hya was dead, saying Hya says “cooldodge” to VMP. that would obviously be a confirmation.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

It's so quiet.

~Mars

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

jjh: i'll take your word for it! i'm working with limited info. :>

Fish: cool. your role certainly fits.

hi tris, if you're town now is the time to show it so we don't lose with your miselimination.
no pressure.

if you're scum sit back and relax, i guess.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@FL, do you PM the mod to distinguish between your roleblocking a slot vs. williboosting it?

@jjh, why did you think Pooky was scum?


~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

my track has lower value then FLs public roleblock correct?
Scum can play around both but I think his role trumps mine now that I am outed and can just get shot.

Although I guess if we go for Gamma then technically

Tris is body guarding me if we trust that

.

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

my track has lower value then FLs public roleblock correct?
Scum can play around both but I think his role trumps mine now that I am outed and can just get shot.

Although I guess if we go for Gamma then technically Tris is body guarding me if we trust that.

Why would we go for Gamma? You tracked Amy to Tris. Sure Amy could have been the target but Tris was also Amy’s #1 scumread. BEF roleblocked Gamma, so we know Gamma couldn’t have bus driven Tris, plus I actually believe the odd night thing. It fits with Amy/BEF’s even night roles and jjh’s odd night Arcana invest. We know that whomeever killed Amy, it 100% could not have been Gamma, so it’s either Tris or it’s a frame but in the extremely unlikely chance it’s an actual frame, it obviously couldn’t have been by Gamma. Then there’s the fact, that despite all of my questions to the mods regarding that, none of my questions regarding the “I do” thing have been answered. Tris claims the mods confirmed mine to her but so far I’ve heard absolutely nothing about it from them. Considering I got feedback regarding my TA on Gamma, which was a negative but because my role was outed, not a clear but in no way a guilty, in what world do you think fading a player that we don’t even know for sure is scum, makes more sense to you then fading very likely mechanically outed scum?

We KNOW Gamma wasn’t the reason Amy died, we should fade the slot whom the bulk of the evidence points to who was the most likely responsible for killing her.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

No actual proof of 2300, because of Amy death btw. Tris’ protective claim on you would be a helluva lot more believable if we had a no kill.

I really can’t grok why you would ever prefer to fade a slot that is 100% cleared from making the nk > very likely mech guiltied scum.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

my track has lower value then FLs public roleblock correct?
Scum can play around both but I think his role trumps mine now that I am outed and can just get shot.

Although I guess if we go for Gamma then technically Tris is body guarding me if we trust that.

Why would we go for Gamma? You tracked Amy to Tris. Sure Amy could have been the target but Tris was also Amy’s #1 scumread. BEF roleblocked Gamma, so we know Gamma couldn’t have bus driven Tris, plus I actually believe the odd night thing. It fits with Amy/BEF’s even night roles and jjh’s odd night Arcana invest. We know that whomeever killed Amy, it 100% could not have been Gamma, so it’s either Tris or it’s a frame but in the extremely unlikely chance it’s an actual frame, it obviously couldn’t have been by Gamma. Then there’s the fact, that despite all of my questions to the mods regarding that, none of my questions regarding the “I do” thing have been answered. Tris claims the mods confirmed mine to her but so far I’ve heard absolutely nothing about it from them. Considering I got feedback regarding my TA on Gamma, which was a negative but because my role was outed, not a clear but in no way a guilty, in what world do you think fading a player that we don’t even know for sure is scum, makes more sense to you then fading very likely mechanically outed scum?

We KNOW Gamma wasn’t the reason Amy died, we should fade the slot whom the bulk of the evidence points to who was the most likely responsible for killing her.

~M

@Hya

We don’t even know for sure Gamma is scum but all of the available evidence so far points most likely to Tris as making the Amy kill, so no. Yes I was extremely tilted at Gamma but the chances of Tris being scum here are through the roof. There is no actual evidence atp guiltying Gamma and we could lose the game if we’re wrong but Tris is very likely flipping scum here so I fail to see how anyone including Gamma is a better fade option than Tris.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@Hya and anyone else thinking Gamma is seriously a more optimal fade option than Tris:

A) Tris was Amy’s #1 scumread.

B!Hya tracked self-redirector Amy to Tris.

C) BEF claimed roleblock on Gamma, so we know both that Gamma couldn’t have bus driven her (plus the odd night is actually believable) but much more importantly GAMMA COULDN’T HAVE MADE The KILL.

D) Tris claimed to have protected you last night but Amy being self-redirector casts complete doubt on that claim. Only way Tris’ bg claim could be confirmed is if there was a no kill last night, which we know there obviously wasn’t.

E) When I asked Dunn about the whole “I do” thing, he refused to answer any questions I had regarding it like did Tris submit her “I do” yet. Today Tris claims that she received confirmation of our “I do” but I still haven’t heard anything about it but I did receive a negative result from my TA on Gamma, so why did I receive a confirmation about the results of my Gamma TA but absolutely nothing whatsoever regarding my “I do” with Tris?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

Took the weekend off. Needed it. Think I should be a lot more clear-headed now.

Flavor Leaf claim is certainly fakeable but it's not something I'm concerned about right now because it should make itself fairly confirmable sooner or later. If I get venged for some reason I promise to be a nuisance from beyond the grave if this chat's real - hopefully that'll at least get us a confirmed villager out of all of this (and hopefully the lack of me being a nuisance confirms a wolf, should that be the case).

Claiming that me hypothesizing 4 wolves is a TMI slip is dumb because that would require there to actually

be

four wolves, which it seems I've been hard shot down on (and I've pretty much coming around to agreeing with those who are doing the shooting).

Requesting that we hold hammer until at least the end of tomorrow. Would like to spend some time realtiming.

I don't think I was super crazy about tris's reaction to her/me suddenly being sussed as a team? And I think I pointed out earlier that her flip on me is super weird.

poe at this point is like. n_m gamma tris and then kill FL if he's alive at lylo? something along those lines

if gamma flips town with d&d's flavor i kinda wanna turbo tris

i should elaborate on how the claim came about

i asked her in the hood what her flavor was

to which her response was "are you <flavor>? because that's what i am"

so if she's scum she KNEW she has the same flavor as me and claimed it anyways

i think THAT's what i find interesting about the situation

and i'm not 100% sure how to parse it

If Amy didn’t die as a direct result of targeting Tris, she more than anyone else in this playerlist had the most motivation to kill her and if anyone is going to suggest either someone other than Tris or a frame, then it still exonerates Gamma due to BEF roleblock.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

because you just don't get told about it. like do you think the mod is going to confirm my role to you?

Since Amy was self-redirector, we have absolutely no proof that you protected Hya. Why? Why wouldn’t I get told about it?

You forget, that we STILL haven’t received any confirmation of your claim, so yeah it sounds kind of fishy to me.

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

And what motive does scum!FL have to kill Amy here - a slot that was hard townreading him and also a slot that he had damn good reason to have no fear from her N2 NAs?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Took the weekend off. Needed it. Think I should be a lot more clear-headed now.

Flavor Leaf claim is certainly fakeable but it's not something I'm concerned about right now because it should make itself fairly confirmable sooner or later. If I get venged for some reason I promise to be a nuisance from beyond the grave if this chat's real - hopefully that'll at least get us a confirmed villager out of all of this (and hopefully the lack of me being a nuisance confirms a wolf, should that be the case).

Claiming that me hypothesizing 4 wolves is a TMI slip is dumb because that would require there to actually

be

four wolves, which it seems I've been hard shot down on (and I've pretty much coming around to agreeing with those who are doing the shooting).

Requesting that we hold hammer until at least the end of tomorrow. Would like to spend some time realtiming.

I don't think I was super crazy about tris's reaction to her/me suddenly being sussed as a team? And I think I pointed out earlier that her flip on me is super weird.

The bolded clearly indicates that Amy had 0 intention of using her NA on FL, so I find it highly unlikely that he would kill her based off of this. In fact, this post points to FL NOT killing Amy. She is explicitly claiming that her silence post-flip confiscums him, where as her being a “nuisance”, confitowns him and proves his role. Scum!FL would have to be an absolute idiot to kill Amy here, so I think this post could be interpreted as a soft inno on FL.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

Who do you think is scum if NM flips red and who, if he flips green?

~M

he better flip red, because otherwise i'm townreading way too much. I haven't really considered that world that much.

If he flips green, then maybe Gamma? that's mostly because i've forgotten about why i was townreading him. And my reasons for townreading others feel firmer. oh and there's also jjh. i still need to go reread gamma as well as others but i'm mostly waiting on the flip before i do that.

all of that was kind of ignoring FL, which i have a tendency to do because he makes my brain hurt sometimes, but also, i know some ways he might be confirmed, so i'm not worrying about that too much. although, i am a little suspicious of the claim.

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

So what happened between now and then to make FL’s role any less confirmable to you?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I could self commute I guess but I am also entertaining the idea about possibly stopping the NK, assuming 2 scum left. For that to work we would most likely need a scum flip today and I guess right on the remaining one. However, I would have to choose a target before we reach a fade.

Also, scum could also holster the NK and frame the commuted target.

Yes that is possible but I think a roleblocked Gamma makes a no kill extremely likely, whether he is actually scum here or not because if Gamma isn’t scum, than scum would have to be an idiot not to no kill in order to frame him.

No one in their right mind would try to frame you here, so I think you self-directing would pretty much nip that in the bud but I think it’s extremely likely we get a no kill one way or another with Gamma roleblock, so it’s an extremely smart call on FL’s part to make and hopefully puts us in a better position, so long as we fade correctly today and I really can’t see how anyone but Tris killed Amy here. You roleblocked Gamma, so he’s clear. Amy soft inno’d FL with her post and I hard tr you, KD and Hya, so who else kills Amy here if not Tris?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hey, @Tris, any chance you could give us a current readslist of yours? Is FL your only scumread? Anyone else you’re suspicious of and why?

Also, can you think of anyone who had more reason to kill Amy than you? because based off of both Hya Amy track as well as Amy ISO, you clearly have the most Amy kill equity here.

Thanks to BEF we know you couldn’t have been bus driven so Gamma’s 100% clear and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

So, if both Gamma and FL are off the table, you do you think we should fade today if not you?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hey, @Tris, any chance you could give us a current readslist of yours? Is FL your only scumread? Anyone else you’re suspicious of and why?

Also, can you think of anyone who had more reason to kill Amy than you? because based off of both Hya Amy track as well as Amy ISO, you clearly have the most Amy kill equity here.

Thanks to BEF we know you couldn’t have been bus driven so Gamma’s 100% clear and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

So, if both Gamma and FL are off the table, you do you think we should fade today if not you?

~M

And they both should damn well be off of the table today, because fading either one is very likely gamethrowing.

If I have to restate why: Gamma is cleared from killing Amy and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

~M