i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[furtiveglance]

Hello this game is large

I am Town

[furtiveglance]

The Divergent series rips off The Hunger Games

VOTE: tris

[furtiveglance]

Isn't the Hunger Games just Battle Royale?

This viewpoint is ignorant of Suzanne Collins' masterful writing

[furtiveglance]

Anyone on for some real time interaction?

[furtiveglance]

hello do you agree with gamma that andree is town?

They just asked about why it wouldn't be good to massclaim early which seems a bit redundant given that it's never a good idea. Unless I misread

So Gamma could be right, but too meaningless to get my approval

[furtiveglance]

Tris, I had limited time yesterday, that's why I left. Is that the only reaso you're voting me?

[furtiveglance]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

[furtiveglance]

That looks like a lot of words to justify a non committal vote.

It's one sentence to explain a committed vote

[furtiveglance]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

What makes you choose to sheep Fenrir specifically?

Early posting style and I agree on tris scumread, I think Fenrir is acting Town

[furtiveglance]

That looks like a lot of words to justify a non committal vote.

It's one sentence to explain a committed vote

It's the entirety of your post. Is your response to split that hair?

My post was quite short, to explain moving my vote.

You then took issue with it.

And now we're talking about nothing.

What is your read on imaginality?

[furtiveglance]

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

[furtiveglance]

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

You put too much effort into telling us it was non committal that's the problem.

Non committal is a phrase you used which I never implied.

I implied it was based more on following a townread's vote than a scumread I have. That doesn't mean it's not committal.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

You put too much effort into telling us it was non committal that's the problem.

Non committal is a phrase you used which I never implied.

I implied it was based more on following a townread's vote than a scumread I have. That doesn't mean it's not committal.

Implying it is actually what you did do, what you didn't do is say it explicitly.

I'm going to stop responding to you about this particular debate now.

[furtiveglance]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

I shept in smaller games than this.

Yeah, I mean that I don't usually like following people's votes.

[furtiveglance]

why did u follow this particular vote

STD quoted some sus posts

[furtiveglance]

I made a massive post but I majorly borked the quotes and spoilers. I don't know how to make it less unreadable at this point, I'm really sorry.

[furtiveglance]

I was ill over the last 2 days

I have some SHOCKING conclusions about the game (not clickbait) and I've quoted the posts which made me think (pensive) about the game in this way.
Mason claim real
Frogsterking scum
Tris scum
McMenno scum
Gamma Emerald town (already thought that)
Quiet Owl town
Ranger town

Spoiler:

Furtive might be scum hiding behind StD.

This is why I don't usually follow people's votes (and why I explained that this game needs more co-operation than usual), because some players inherently scumread it.

Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.

tf are you saying here

This is really forced distancing. There is no reason to believe there is any existing tension between Gamma and Titus.

This read seems too wild to be town. Even for Frogsterking, yes I have played with them before, do not mistake this for a meta neutral stretch. They're just leaning into the character they've created and are having a lot of fun with it.

that's pretty bad

@all

Also: I hate every single one of you for townreading Gamma for absolutely shit reasons, and you all deserve to lose (and probably will) for not backing me up.

im townreading gamma now this is epic

im townreading gamma now this is epic

McMenno moved to town lean for me based on pre flip associations with Gamma.

I've seen a lot of scum players play like McMenno is - really sarky and projecting a casual vibe, basing reads off memes etc. This was making me question Frogsterking scum but I can see this as scum/scum quite easily after thinking about it.

Spoiler:

VOTE: imaginify

I’d rather you vote me.

Seems on meta for town Gamma, and just town for anyone.

well I'm loving the confidence at least

Smug scum

Ranger, I can't believe town!you doesn't get what I am throwing down.

If you mean implying you're masons with imaginality, then I saw, since you've been rather explicit.

It'd be impossible to have missed.

Quite simply, there's no role you could claim which I'd believe. Which is also why I've no qualms outing this. I won't accept any roleclaim of imaginality being conftown here, least of all from you.

If imaginality is town by play then he can be town, but by role he most

certainly

is not.

I claim it. Outing it wasn't best. You, if town, could have said I don't believe you.

I don't think town!you ever doubts that. I don't ever lock myself into a fake claim day 1 unprompted.

I don't see Ranger scum Titus town here because it's such a dumb hill to die on as scum. Compare with Frogster reaction, initial hesitancy but commits to voting Titus later after Ranger blunders into a Titus vote.

Imaginality is town.

Yes, I get you believe that.

But you're not a mason, so it's not

actually

true.

I'm not letting a fakeclaim save scum from being eliminated.

I know what you

want

to do with the mason claim. It'd work if imaginality were town. But he

isn't

, so it won't.

Wrongtown

@all

I have three slots that need to be seriously considered as candidates for the D1 lim: Ythan, furtive and George.

VOTE: furtive

I'm switching my vote from George to furtive in order to (hopefully) consolidate with tris, who I want for the town core. I want to rewind things back to this moment:

Spoiler:

btw, i voted for furtiveglance because they said they wanted real time interaction and then disappeared.

---

is no one interested in voting furtive wif me?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

@Quiet Owl

if you're looking for a scum who wagoned imaginality, can I suggest you take a serious look at furtiveglance?

4 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality)

Based on what I've been taught about "wagonomics", I should be anticipating that I have 1 scum who is still vote parked on my wagon. I think these four players can be narrowed down to just McMenno and Ythan. Comparing their isos, I think Ythan's iso is significantly worse than McMenno's.

Redirecting attention onto furtive and Ythan reveals the intriguing possibility that the spoiler quotes are scum theater:

Spoiler:

Isn't the Hunger Games just Battle Royale?

This viewpoint is ignorant of Suzanne Collins' masterful writing

That looks like a lot of words to justify a non committal vote.

It's one sentence to explain a committed vote

It's the entirety of your post. Is your response to split that hair?

My post was quite short, to explain moving my vote.

You then took issue with it.

And now we're talking about nothing.

What is your read on imaginality?

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

You put too much effort into telling us it was non committal that's the problem.

Non committal is a phrase you used which I never implied.

I implied it was based more on following a townread's vote than a scumread I have. That doesn't mean it's not committal.

I'm not talking about nothing I'm talking about you overjustifying a non committal vote.

Imaginality is fine so far besides mixing up Gamma and I which in isolation whatever. Want to see more.

Non-comittal? My vote is as serious as most other votes for where we are in the game.

And yeah I could have just voted but that's not really my style

You put too much effort into telling us it was non committal that's the problem.

Non committal is a phrase you used which I never implied.

I implied it was based more on following a townread's vote than a scumread I have. That doesn't mean it's not committal.

Implying it is actually what you did do, what you didn't do is say it explicitly.

I'm going to stop responding to you about this particular debate now.

336 by the way is another TMI tell regarding Imaginality, this time from Ythan. I think the mention of Gamma in 336 is conspicuous.

This PSA announcing scumreads on 3 fairly low content slots (Ythan possible exception but not much substance) is brought about by Frogster being top of the VC Christmas tree. If they've done the old '1 scumbuddy in 3 scumreads' I'd say GB, but could be Ythan. Possible that neither is scum. Also doesn't fit at all with what I've seen before of town Frogster, they choose more active targets for their votes as town.

Catching up, I very much doubt that Titus says she has a mod confirmed read on someone unless it’s true. I think it’s possible Ranger actually believes what she’s saying but I don’t understand how she can both townread Titus and still think she’s either somehow being misinformed or less than honest?

I am not going to vote a player that Titus says is mod confirmed. That’s just sounds way too specific to not be true.

This is the sensible view. I think kitten will be sorted with time as 'reasonable' slots usually are, you can judge them by their votes more than posting.

@tris

can I get your three strongest townreads and scumreads aorn?

gimme a moment to take stock

actually doin it now. off the top of my head

scum: furtive, ythan, quiet owl
town: imagine, titus, gamma

This is ringing very loud alarm bells - worried about seeming authentic with the 'thought process' and then just picks 3 LHF for scumreads and goes for 2 Masons and the player asking the question for town. Scum.

Kitten town
Frog prob town
VOTE: furtive

This could easily be scum, but could also be lazy town.

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Mcmenno is probably town from this post

This is what gives me pause with Elements, I don't think McMenno and Elements are scum together from this. If anything it's McMenno scum that I'm reading at the moment.

You probably don't believe me but i do have readlist!

It's not just you as town and everyone else null is it?

No!

I also have NM as Town!
And everyone else null.

I found someone doing less than me, congratulations

[/spoiler]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Furtive

Why?

I think frog is town, I have no opinion of imagine but i thought i saw a mason claim but i misread that as being imagine's rather than urs

Elements seems town on this page

I don't know what ranger did besides post readlists

It's mostly a default vote. Although I had a misunderstanding about imagine so i read his ISO, i don't notice any meaningful difference between my impression of him here and in a scum!him game i played with him. But that's jut based off of having longer posts and elaborating on what he's thinking as he votes, so I don't have much of an opinion

pedit: Wait is imagineality a mason claim too? I'm fucked up

I found this vote suspect when I quoted it but now it doesn't really make sense from scum MT in a scum Frogster world.

@tris

can I get your three strongest townreads and scumreads aorn?

gimme a moment to take stock

actually doin it now. off the top of my head

scum: furtive, ythan, quiet owl
town: imagine, titus, gamma

am I on the same level as Titus and imaginify? If so, why?

Also

@elements

why the backtrack on kitten?

It's called a pocket attempt Gamma.

[/spoiler]

VOTE: Frogsterking

[furtiveglance]

Ftr you can’t nest spoiler= tags

I didn't know what to do. I'll try to answer any questions that arise though

[furtiveglance]

Also

@elements

why the backtrack on kitten?

It's called a pocket attempt Gamma

you think my town read -> null read is a pocket attempt?

no that was confusingly done by me, I meant that tris was pocketing. I didn't see you backtracking on kitten

[furtiveglance]

Frogster appeal on activity for some reason make him trustworthy

this is mediocre, scumleaning Enchant

this Ythan wagon is bad as hell, shame about the replacement too

I still want to get Frogster today... out of Ranger's suggestions earlier I could be down with furtive and I don't want Ythan's slot gone

Agreeing with quite a few of McMenno's reads actually (Frogster/Enchant to be precise). They could just be Town with a style that I scumread, the alternative is a Town!Frogsterking world which is theoretically possible, but right now I see this Ythan wagon as an effort to save Frogsterking pushed by Mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Ranger, no one is going to towncase imaginality. That's not how it works. I'm not spending my time arguing about things I know to be true. It helps precisely no one. Casing someone means being open to feedback and I'm well NOT.

To keep your scumread on imaginality, you have floated through every possible scenario and ignored Frogsterking's behavior because it happens to agree with you. With all due respect, grow the fuck up. Move on if you're town.

I don't know what to tell you Ranger but you need to stop getting tilted by Titus, this is scum!Titus lol

Do you want to explain why you only voted Titus after Ranger did (post-Mason claim)?

[furtiveglance]

Ranger, no one is going to towncase imaginality. That's not how it works. I'm not spending my time arguing about things I know to be true. It helps precisely no one. Casing someone means being open to feedback and I'm well NOT.

To keep your scumread on imaginality, you have floated through every possible scenario and ignored Frogsterking's behavior because it happens to agree with you. With all due respect, grow the fuck up. Move on if you're town.

I don't know what to tell you Ranger but you need to stop getting tilted by Titus, this is scum!Titus lol

Do you want to explain why you only voted Titus after Ranger did (post-Mason claim)?

No, I want you to die.

It's mutual, but I'm also willing to engage with you about my reads if you want to try and seem interested.

[furtiveglance]

It's mutual, but I'm also willing to engage with you about my reads if you want to try and seem interested

Alright, what's up furtive? Who are you willing to vote?

Maybe the tris replacement. But I really want to get you today, I feel like otherwise the whole gamestate will get clogged.

[furtiveglance]

I think I'm reading D1 really well for once

[furtiveglance]

Good morning

I guess we have some double/triple voters^^

[furtiveglance]

Good morning

I guess we have some double/triple voters^^

This was about the daystart VC

[furtiveglance]

guess my triple voting is hidden then (joke)

[furtiveglance]

I'm doing a proper catch up today, in a bit

good to see familiar faces

We have to stop meeting like this

I don't really agree that psychiatrist is powerful PR, but it points we have Serial Killer.

Let me run you through the process I have.

We know there was a Psychiatrist. Psychiatrists specifically cure Serial Killers.

We have two nightkills last night, indicating a serial killer was active last night.

We have a duo, Titus + imaginality, who have claimed masons,

but whose play does not match that of town masons.

My conclusion is Titus and imaginality are likely a serial killer duo, who likely could have been converted into a vigilante duo had Frogsterking targeted them.

I would happily vote imaginality as a result. There's arguments to be made on holding back. Leashing the serial killers is potentially viable; the theory of them being 3p, while sound, is not 100% definitive, and usually it's better to hunt for scum than to hunt for 3p. I feel a discussion is warranted, but will happily park my vote on anyone with a high chance of being nontown. What type of scum we eliminate is less important; eliminating scum regardless of type is the goal.

How did you get to the bolded line?

a thought. no-one believed frog's claim except maybe cat scratch and ranger. so what do they know that we don't?

Can you quote exact posts that you think are TMI?

[furtiveglance]

We have to stop meeting like this

I time every journey... to bump into you

Gimli, if voting Frogsterking was dumb, who should we have voted?

[furtiveglance]

IDK yet, it's been forever, but frogster was by far the towniest person in the first few pages and it was an extremely annoying thing to be reading so much dumb pushes against him.

since you're here, furtive, where should I start?

Start? It sounds like you already read some

[furtiveglance]

Why don't you start with Titus/imaginality. They're claiming Masons

[furtiveglance]

I wouldn't put it past xyzy to put a Jester in here

[furtiveglance]

I want to think more about my vote but I'll vote later

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
fuck this game

What prompted this? You seemed really invested in the PT

[furtiveglance]

I don't want to vote Ranger even though I disagree with most of their takes, I'm sort of townreading them for playstyle.

I still believe Titus and imaginality are Masons, and think that based on good play they shouldn't be in the votepool until later in the game.

I don't like the wagon on Gamma. I'm getting bad vibes from Mathblade in particular, and was from tris as well.

I'll give my vote to this wagon though, one I also suggested yesterday.

VOTE: McMenno

[furtiveglance]

I don't want to vote Ranger even though I disagree with most of their takes, I'm sort of townreading them for playstyle.

I still believe Titus and imaginality are Masons, and think that based on good play they shouldn't be in the votepool until later in the game.

I don't like the wagon on Gamma. I'm getting bad vibes from Mathblade in particular, and was from tris as well.

I'll give my vote to this wagon though, one I also suggested yesterday.

VOTE: McMenno

When I say 'based on good play', I don't mean Titus/imaginality have played well, I mean in terms of mechanical theory and playing optimally we should keep Mason claims alive until later.

[furtiveglance]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

[furtiveglance]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

same thing that often triggers my self-votes: wanting to remove the obvious distraction to solving that is myself

So there was no trigger, you just decided to.

[furtiveglance]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

same thing that often triggers my self-votes: wanting to remove the obvious distraction to solving that is myself

So there was no trigger, you just decided to.

the trigger is a certain perception of the gamestate involving myself

I was thinking it might be that. Ranger and MathBlade are loud and pushing you. Would I be correct in saying you think Ranger is scum and MathBlade is town? I currently have the opposite opinion.

[furtiveglance]

hi furtive sorry for throwing the other game lets win this one

How dare you discuss that other game haha. It's fine. What are your

ToP tHrEe ScUmReAdS

[furtiveglance]

I am mod confirmed to be in this game

I am mod

[furtiveglance]

votecount 2.03

didn't ask + don't care + l + ratio + touch grass

4 players voting for imaginality (Prince of Paterson, UltimateGamer, HighPrincessErinys, Ranger)
4 players voting for McMenno (Titus, Elements, furtiveglance, imaginality)
3 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia, MathBlade)
1 player voting for Titus (Enchant)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever)

7 players not voting (McMenno, KittyTacky, Lycanfire, Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, Gimli, kitten around)

with 20 votes, it takes 11 to eliminate.

mod notes: Gamma Emerald has requested to be replaced.

Can we just do Gamma please? I don’t like the McMenno or imaginality wagons.

If not someone else?

Why not McMenno?

[furtiveglance]

votecount 2.03

didn't ask + don't care + l + ratio + touch grass

4 players voting for imaginality (Prince of Paterson, UltimateGamer, HighPrincessErinys, Ranger)
4 players voting for McMenno (Titus, Elements, furtiveglance, imaginality)
3 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia, MathBlade)
1 player voting for Titus (Enchant)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever)

7 players not voting (McMenno, KittyTacky, Lycanfire, Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, Gimli, kitten around)

with 20 votes, it takes 11 to eliminate.

mod notes: Gamma Emerald has requested to be replaced.

Can we just do Gamma please? I don’t like the McMenno or imaginality wagons.

If not someone else?

Why not McMenno?

I really don’t like how I suggest a lurker and McMenno gets suggested and NM gets suggested and there’s someone that vouches for NM but not McMenno. McMenno the entire argument is lurker which NM also is and it came up fast. It has Gamma’s support (before she replaced out) and a top wagon of imaginality. Two of the most townread players are arguing against it. I think there’s no way McMenno flips scum here.

Which 2 townread players?

[furtiveglance]

Does meat do anything?

[furtiveglance]

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Mcmenno is probably town from this post

think both mcmenno and elements are town for mcmenno's post and then elements' reaction alone. + elements ISO doesn't vibe too strong either way but I think she's been more towny than the other way around

Disagree. Do you usually townread Miller claims and the like? I can see this isn't necessarily a Miller claim but it's similar

[furtiveglance]

@furtive: I didn't really see it as a miller claim + I do townread miller claims (even though my days of mafia are way behind me now for me to tell you what I generally townread). I think the phrasing is very specific and not particularly likely to be coming from scum, and I think elements' solve of the slot is sharp in a towny way.

The phrasing was the opposite of specific - my role can interfere with investigatives or something.

McMenno is basically saying don't check me

I think Elements is town if McMenno is scum so we can agree on that

[furtiveglance]

What do y'all think of kitten around?

I ISO'd them and could be scum, playing very safe in general, but I couldn't find any specific post or a general atittude that feels scummy

That's a pretty accurate description yeah. In general, I think scum tend to fit this profile more often than not: not doing anything wildly strange to stand out, but not pushing the game forward either.

Haven't played with kitten around so I'm not sure whether they're usually like this, but based on their ISO I'd put them in the low end of null. What do you think of Lycanfire and Paterson? I have them all sort of null

[furtiveglance]

i haven't put much effort into defending myself because

i see my elimination as inevitable

. i don't act like normal town. never have, probably never will. therefore i am trying to arrange my iso to be useful after my death, which will prove my alignment and in theory then be helpful. arguing over my alignment is a distraction, and i think it's very very easy for scum to get brownie points by going after me.

I think the bolded reaction is a bit premature. Your wagon fell apart very quickly, and now no one is voting you

Not sure how I feel about the rest of the post tbh

I think this is a townpost, reminds me of me

[furtiveglance]

Read their ISO - can you tell who they think is scum? It's hard to tell, because they're not pushing or making waves, but instead are just flying under the radar.

I feel this is overly harsh. Nearly every post, kitten around has made relevant posts about topical reads. 345, 627, 834, 998, 1002, 1074, 1296, 1688, 1689, 1694, have reads.

617, 618, 624, 625, 627, 833, 1002, 1017, 1023, 1034, 1057, 1058, 1064, 1097, 1556, have relevant commentary.

That's 23 / 39 of her posts. She feels like she's contributed plenty.

How are you linking posts so quickly?

[furtiveglance]

I'm in a rage fucking tastic mood. Math, get me a wagon above four on someone I don't know the alignment of.

I'll be at my hotel tonight in two hours...or so I hope.

In the meanwhile, I want Ranger's yoga instructor. Arguing an unalive bomber is a serial killer is so stretching Ranger might as well be Mrs. Fantastic.

This is a good roast

If we're doing Queen Titus/King Math again, can I be Prince furtive this time?

[furtiveglance]

To the players not voting McMenno (nearly everyone now), is it because of the really vague soft of a Miller-like role? If not, then why?

[furtiveglance]

I'm still alive in this game. I've been busy, but I've done some 'busy work' for you guys.

i haven't put much effort into defending myself because i see my elimination as inevitable. i don't act like normal town. never have, probably never will. therefore i am trying to arrange my iso to be useful after my death, which will prove my alignment and in theory then be helpful. arguing over my alignment is a distraction, and i think it's very very easy for scum to get brownie points by going after me.

The way

QO

is posting now is looking a lot like their most recent towngame, here. Something about the calm resignation.

I obviously don’t want to be mislimmed but what really would be infuriating is if you don’t take a look at those three after I flip. If my mislim is inevitable, I at least don’t want to die in vain.

THe other big wagon,

kitten around

, is giving me the same energy with stuff like this^. Also, I think that this from kitten's completed towngame:

I’m happy to go 1v1 with you since your entire progression on my slot looks scum motivated. There is no reason town!you should be voting me here, so I’m interpreting this vote as confirmation that my solve on you is probably right.

...looks like this from this game:

CSF probably just wrong, one of Prince/Math scum.

Whichever one is scum here definitely doesn’t want a 1v1 with me but I’ll more than happily engage with it to take out scum. Try me.

In conclusion, I think the town consensus is way off here. I think the

McMenno

wagon was good and I still believe in it, their latest pop-in was scummy.

Not_Mafia

has a 20 post ISO with 1 readslist, here:

Spoiler:

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[/url]

The readslist itself I don't like, and subsequent voting and play (Frog, Gamma, 'push' on Gimli) don't match it, but because it's N_M I can't say that's worse than meta neutral. I was lucky enough to be an IC in a game where I had to choose the other town and N_M was town. Here's their 6 post (before postgame) ISO in the second, crucial phase of that game (they were town): N_M towngame in a game that you have to towntell as much as you can

I can't really put N_M anywhere other than null for this, which is very annoying. However, I think QO and KA are town so I'll vote here since there's been a bit of momentum.

I'll be around for a bit this afternoon so please leave a like and comment on the post.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[furtiveglance]

^^Have you been reading? Do you want a TLDR?

[furtiveglance]

I want a tldr

I'm realising I don't myself know the full claims. What was that meat thing? I asked but no one answered

[furtiveglance]

I want a tldr

I'm realising I don't myself know the full claims. What was that meat thing? I asked but no one answered

On the meat thing, and correct me if it's wrong, isn't it that Math was a multitasking FV one-shot MeatVendor (and also VegetableVendor) that vended meat to Titus, but instead the meat got to Elements so we suspect a driver of some sort?

Yep thanks.

And no one claimed a town redirecting role unless I missed it

Apart from that, Titus and imaginality claimed Masons, Frogsterking sort of imploded and got voted out, then MathBlade claimed. McMenno claimed 'don't investigate me' which I think is sus. MathBlade just said KittyTacky also claimed FV. I can't remember other claims. QO has refused to claim despite being run up to E-2/3?

In terms of scum numbers, people are saying multiball. I know xyzy said this was very bastard so their could be mechanics like conversion (e.g. cult) and Frogsterking's role (Psychiatrist) points to a Serial Killer. Oh and there's at least one neigbourhood (I'd guess more based on STD's role (Encryptor Neighbour), I'm in one with 9/10 others (inc you) but it got locked.

[furtiveglance]

I want a tldr

I'm realising I don't myself know the full claims. What was that meat thing? I asked but no one answered

On the meat thing, and correct me if it's wrong, isn't it that Math was a multitasking FV one-shot MeatVendor (and also VegetableVendor) that vended meat to Titus, but instead the meat got to Elements so we suspect a driver of some sort?

Yep thanks.

And no one claimed a town redirecting role unless I missed it

Apart from that, Titus and imaginality claimed Masons, Frogsterking sort of imploded and got voted out, then MathBlade claimed. McMenno claimed 'don't investigate me' which I think is sus. MathBlade just said KittyTacky also claimed FV. I can't remember other claims. QO has refused to claim despite being run up to E-2/3?

In terms of scum numbers, people are saying multiball. I know xyzy said this was very bastard so there could be mechanics like conversion (e.g. cult) and Frogsterking's role (Psychiatrist) points to a Serial Killer. Oh and there's at least one neigbourhood (I'd guess more based on STD's role (Encryptor Neighbour), I'm in one with 9/10 others (inc you) but it got locked.

spelling

[furtiveglance]

Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

And I vaguely remember there being another post where she reiterated, but I can't find it.

Now, this post puts me in a very bad position. Mostly because I don't really understand why she made it; I've still not caught up with the hood PT, but my hopes of finding enligthment there are slim. I will however say that I fully believe that there is some nasty hidden elements to my role, I have strong reasons to, and I suspect my predecessor did too. In any case, just in case someone was still ruminating on Gamma's bizarre soft there, the word elimination (nor equivalents thereof) does not appear anywhere in my PM, and the thing that my role can trigger will trigger on my death however that will be.

Ok. So either something good or something bad happens when you die

[furtiveglance]

I can't really put N_M anywhere other than null for this, which is very annoying. However, I think QO and KA are town so I'll vote here since there's been a bit of momentum.

Why do you think QO and KA are town?

Sorry, just read the rest of the post lol. The KA thing can be replicated as either alignment. Read the content of their posts

This response is a bit dismissive. I have skimmed their entire ISO, it's not like I just read some of their words. I think what I quoted is +town. I read your case on kitten at the time and didn't agree, I'll respond to it fully later.

[furtiveglance]

I think lycanfire and prince of paterson have also raised good points about KA fwiw

Alright. I know I'm sometimes liable to try and find things that support my pre-existing view, so I will genuinely approach this with an open mind. The most legible way for me to do this is to get right into the text, I'll write in

purple.

I'm scumreading you for reasons outlined below:

Spoiler:

New reads: I think KittyTacky, UltimateGamer (Ythan), and Gimli (Vaxkiller) are town. Kitten around is scum.

Wanna elaborate a bit on the Kitten scumread?

The reasoning behind their reads feels kind of superficial - 1425 explains one example.

I agree with the basic point here, scum could easily say mod-confirmed when fakeclaiming. It definitely seems like an unconvincing reason for a read. The phrase 'I don't think she' feels like that could be a meta read on Titus by kitten, but I don't know.

When they engage the thread, they're asking a lot of surface-level questions 1311, 1319, 1435. Asking questions is okay, but I think they're doing it an awful lot relative to their other contributions.

Too many questions - the game that comes to mind for me is Newbie 2101 (yes this is relevant!). I was scumreading MegAzumarill for the same thing, and they were a Mason in that game so they were sort of putting all their reads in the PT and not much in the main thread. Since that game I haven't really used the 'too many questions' thing as a scumtell. It's definitely possible for town players to have a lot of thoughts about the game but only use the thread as a source of information for themselves rather than a journal.

Read their ISO - can you tell who they think is scum? It's hard to tell, because they're not pushing or making waves, but instead are just flying under the radar.

I can now after they started posting more, but at the time this post was written by CSF I definitely couldn't, having gone through their ISO. I do consider lack of scumreads a general scumtell, and kitten wasn't shy about pushing players actively in their one completed towngame that I read. This is the most convincing point so far.

What do y'all think of kitten around?

I ISO'd them and could be scum, playing very safe in general, but I couldn't find any specific post or a general atittude that feels scummy

That's a pretty accurate description yeah. In general, I think scum tend to fit this profile more often than not: not doing anything wildly strange to stand out, but not pushing the game forward either.

What do y'all think of kitten around?

I ISO'd them and could be scum, playing very safe in general, but I couldn't find any specific post or a general atittude that feels scummy

That's a pretty accurate description yeah. In general, I think scum tend to fit this profile more often than not: not doing anything wildly strange to stand out, but not pushing the game forward either.

I think in a game this large there are inevitably a few players matching this description. I'm surprised that CSF used this same logic to push kitten around

and

to defend both McMenno and Not_Mafia today. What's the difference between them?

Haven't played with kitten around so I'm not sure whether they're usually like this, but based on their ISO I'd put them in the low end of null. What do you think of Lycanfire and Paterson? I have them all sort of null

kitten around more active in this game as town: viewtopic.php?t=90036&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

They exhibited a certain zeal for scumhunting that I do not see here.

I read this game and they do seem to be more active, but equally in this game they've become more active recently.

Lycanfire I had as town yesterday but need to hear from him more today. Paterson feels okay so far but also need more.

Read their ISO - can you tell who they think is scum? It's hard to tell, because they're not pushing or making waves, but instead are just flying under the radar.

I feel this is overly harsh. Nearly every post, kitten around has made relevant posts about topical reads. 345, 627, 834, 998, 1002, 1074, 1296, 1688, 1689, 1694, have reads.

617, 618, 624, 625, 627, 833, 1002, 1017, 1023, 1034, 1057, 1058, 1064, 1097, 1556, have relevant commentary.

That's 23 / 39 of her posts. She feels like she's contributed plenty.

Of course she has reads. Even scum are going to have reads to fake contribution.

But she has like a handful of townreads, and that's it.

She's commenting on things but doesn't feel emotionally invested in the discussion and isn't getting into the thick of it.

It might just be that this post is slightly out of date, but I've felt the exact opposite of emotional detachment, especially in the post of theirs I quoted earlier (about angrily wanting to 1v1 someone or other)

kitten around more active in this game as town: viewtopic.php?t=90036&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So I read that iso and I don't think it's actually different from here. That was an entire game, where kitten around replaced in during a time there was also plenty of content. Here kitten around has been playing from the beginning and the game isn't remotely close to over. She made 40 posts on that game's D2 as a replacement who had 56 pages' worth of content to read. That's comparable to her rate here imo.

In that game, she was only in the game for 2 real-life days before Day 2 ended. That's a lot of posting...

But to add onto that, you say things like 1688 with no follow up read on either Math or Prince, so your solving just looks really superficial.

This is a good point, but again I think it applies to multiple players, partly due to the number of players. If you want your vote to count there has to be appetite for a wagon really, so I can see why kitten might vote for a more consensus scumread. From their ISO it looks like Prince is still a scumread and no mention of MathBlade.

Spoiler: Lycanfire

prodge, will be in a distracted state for the next few hours but available to talk when i am here

What's your thoughts on kitten and McMenno?

Looking back kitten around is pretty sus as hell. We literally let kitten around just chainsaw quiet owl all eod1, it's their entire content but it was such a clusterfuck nobody called them on it. I'll grab some quotes, but I'd say this slot is way scummier over Quiet Owl, but reads s-s. Let me refresh myself.

I’ve been trying to stay caught up with this game but explain to me how this is getting votes? This reads like a transparently townie thought process.

Mathblade brought attention back to the Multiball tell Ranger and I were discussing d1, but kitten around is the one that wants to step in to defend quiet owl's honor? What threat did Mathblade really present to Quiet Owl here and is his 1008 really that narrative building that kitten around needed to inject themselves into this?

This feels quite sensationalist from Lycanfire. This post assumes S/S based on kitten townreading QO, which seems like really level 1 logic. Besides, if kitten is 'way scummier', how does it 'read S/S'?

I don’t understand why thinking it could be multiball is bad? Anything and everything is possible in an Xyzzy game. I’ve seen alignment changes and jesters in some of their past games for example, so I think game being not only bastard but mech complex is quite likely.

Bonus round:
[In response to frogsterking suspecting over Quiet Owl in 1055]

You seem very tunnelled and you’re ignoring really blatant things like Titus saying Imaginality was mod confirmed.

Sure, this was a good take d1, but kitten was using this easy to digest take to kneecap something COMPLETELY irrelevant wrt Frogster's 1055. It's cool just how heavily they believed the mason idea though at the end of the page:

Kittens go ahead and post a reads list whenever your ready.

I don’t have a full list yet but rn

my strongest town reads are on the mason claims, STD, MT.

I’m sorry I don’t have any more confident reads yet.

I think this is jumping on kitten for calling flipped town tunnelled, but sort of ignoring the reality of the tunnelling, which was actually pretty annoying for everyone. As for believing the mason claim, I agreed at the time and still do.

Holy fuck the fear is real

Potential partners - Quiet Owl and Ythan (UltimateGamer) are up there. Pretty extensive defenses of both of these slots when they were possible wagons d1.

Let's goo VOTE: kitten around


McMenno - disliked them the entire game probably because I knew they'd be low content. Their post about how this is possibly still multiball is annoying because Frogster flipping as he did is supposed to help our ability to read players, not hinder it. I think scumreading them just because I disagree is pretty low, but they're not really offering much content anyway. Kitten around vote lacks harmony with their quiet owl read, and it seems survivalistic, but McMenno is probably the silly kind of town player that would do something scummy as some sort of sick idea of looking town.

Anyways, thanks for trying to drag me back into the game. You're a good doll.

Spoiler: Prince of Paterson:

This is awesome. I’m basically getting run up because I apparently had an unpopular reaad

Clarify which unpopular read of yours is the reason why you're getting run up, please.

I’m assuming it’s either because I defended QA or because I misunderstood Titus’ claim but I know at least one person posited me as buddies with them and Titus is voting me for apparently being a UG buddy now? lol. I’m extremely fascinated how people are even coming up with these wild takes.

Do you have any posts you can quote that explain the origin of your belief that the primary reason for you getting run up was that you had an unpopular read? Where did this idea come from? My understanding of the primary reason for why you were getting run up was that you weren't scumhunting and didn't have a town mindset and it had nothing to do with any unpopular reads.

I would like to know what made you believe otherwise, because for someone who believes strongly that there is scum pushing your wagon, it doesn't feel like you have made any real attempts to even understand why people are voting you. That to me seems like it would be a prerequisite to determining who is pushing you maliciously.

Treating all of the suspicion as an undifferentiated block, being unsure who has what reasons, and being unsure what the reasons even are, seems more likely to be a result of scum knowing that the push is all coming from town. In the eyes of the mafia, town are all the same and the details of the reasons don't matter because the result is correct. Believing strongly that there is scum on the wagon but still treating the people on the wagon as interchangeable is at best negligent from town, but much more likely to be a result of viewing the game from a scum perspective.

I disagree with the premise that not specifying who is scum pushing kitten is in itself suspicious. It's quite common for town to have a gameview based on paranoia, especially certain users.

As I already told to Gimli, fair enough but I didn’t have any confident scumreads but now I do and it thinks it’s extremely naive to think there’s not at least one scum voting me and rn, McMenno is my best guess for that.

Reasoning behind McMenno? I don't think believing that there is at least one scum voting you qualifies as a confident scumread because again, it doesn't appear that you have read or understood the reasons why people are voting you. In order to determine who is scum voting you, it would be prudent of you to investigate on that subject. Your lack of interest in doing so is suspicious to me.

McMenno didn't give a reason for their vote.

I don't usually do massive posts about other players, but nothing better to do on Friday night so here we are. In conclusion, I do still think kitten around is town, I think their emotion is genuine and I buy their view of the game. Reading some of CSF, Lycanfire and Prince of Paterson's posting, I think CSF and Prince of Paterson look town, but I'm scumreading Lycanfire. I think they could be jumping on kitten around after CSF paved the way.

[furtiveglance]

McMenno 3 most recent posts:

VOTE: kitten around

Silent vote after ~2 days gone

this is crrazy. why am I not the top wagon anymore

Openwolf/lolcatting

We have to interact, it's kind of the point of mafia

Okay Mr. 17 posts in 77 pages. let's hecking interact! How are you feeling about Kitten? How about Quiet Owl? What's your current town block right now? Or scum block for that matter?

have some respect please

I don't know what this is

Ranger, how does this seem town?

[furtiveglance]

McMenno 3 most recent posts:

VOTE: kitten around

Silent vote after ~2 days gone

this is crrazy. why am I not the top wagon anymore

Openwolf/lolcatting

We have to interact, it's kind of the point of mafia

Okay Mr. 17 posts in 77 pages. let's hecking interact! How are you feeling about Kitten? How about Quiet Owl? What's your current town block right now? Or scum block for that matter?

have some respect please

I don't know what this is

Ranger, how does this seem town?

Silent vote after ~2 days gone

That is not scum; I did the same thing.

Openwolf/lolcatting

You're literally calling a townpost demonstrating McMenno's townier mindset the opposite.

I don't know what this is

It certainly isn't scum.

Ranger, how does this seem town?

Nothing you have shown is indicative of scum and is quite the opposite.
Your "scumcase" is genuinely a

towncase

for McMenno.

Can someone else weigh in on these posts from McMenno?

[furtiveglance]

I think in a game this large there are inevitably a few players matching this description. I'm surprised that CSF used this same logic to push kitten around

and

to defend both McMenno and Not_Mafia today. What's the difference between them?

The difference between KA & McMenno/Not_Mafia is that KA likes playing town and is active as town, but McMenno/Not_Mafia have a repeated pattern of not doing anything as either alignment. Meta is the difference, basically.

I knew that about N_M but not McMenno. Is there a game you have in mind or shall I go most recent?

The difference for me is that although KA started off more passive, they've become more involved after being dragged into things

[furtiveglance]

IDK how to weigh in on mcmenno other than it needs death and if I had a dayvig I'd kill it

I bet someone does currently have a day vig O_O

[furtiveglance]

because a wagon on an empty slot is not going to be useful. There's no info to squeeze out of Ythan because she's not here...

Absolutely loving the CSF town here.

This is GeorgeBailey's last post. Were they replaced? They've been in all the VCs. I just noticed this

[furtiveglance]

Ranger hard defending mcmenno makes absolutely zero sense to me unless he has information or is powerwolfing

powerwolfing makes sense in this game given how the loudest players are pushing for strange wagons that will probably flip town

Is it just Ranger doing this or who else do you mean?

I accept these wagons: mcmenno/NM/george bailey? and it feels like it's so damn hard to push for these low hanging fruits because they're being hard protected, which doesn't make sense if they're town.

game looks like all the people posting and trying are town, and if they're not town they're still universally townread and are powerwolfing the game as a result.

Which players are you counting as posting/trying?

with so many towny players, the people not playing the game is where a lot of the scum is, so we should 100% go after UTRs.

UTR usually means universal town reads. Is this what you mean?

town's inability to read and scumhunt got a townie top poster killed on d1. some of these same people are being loud about their other hero reads, and getting sheeped as a result.

Again, do you mean Ranger? MathBlade? Someone else?

watch us eat each other up while the scumteam of enchant, not mafia, mcmenno, and a couple of townlooking scums win the game

I hope we've got some town killing roles

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: McMenno

[furtiveglance]

Hello all

I still think KA is town

[furtiveglance]

Lycanfire scum

I agree

[furtiveglance]

also- find it very hard to believe biancospino role :^)

Why

[furtiveglance]

Hello all

I still think KA is town

I hope you're wrong. the only thing that gives me pause about it is the weird way in which kitten has AtE'd last night, and I don't wanna talk about it further, but it'd be a dick move if they're scum.

the rest of their play doesn't feel like town in the slightest. why are you townreading them?

Similar with the emotion. I talked about it a bit already

[furtiveglance]

I just finished a Normal game where a townie refused to claim and town didn't lose only because of great work by protectives and a weird setup.

Hopefully weird setup comes in clutch this game, that sounds like the most achievable

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE:

okay

who do you think is scum, kitty? furtive, how about you? who are we limming?

McMenno, Lycanfire. Haven't really liked Elements' recent vote on kitten

Did you change your mind on McMenno or just scumread kitten more?

[furtiveglance]

elements is just voting the top wagon while V/LA to help move the game forward. she did unvote and went for mcmenno who you're scumreading.

I don't see how any of those wagons are going to happen today. maybe McMenno but under heavy protest from ranger, at least.

the only thing that just pinged me about lycanfire was their attempt at discrediting biancospino's claim. other than that IDK that I scumread it - pending a reread.

McMenno I can move there and flip it, sure. It's not playing mafia and there's nothing to townread it for, other than ranger squinting her eyes pretty hard to find a reason.

I'll recheck your TR on KA now and see if I agree with parts of it.

I missed Elements vote on McMenno. Just us on that one now. Might have to revive the wagon later in the game which is annoying. I'll /in to push McMenno tomorrow.

I need to look at UltimateGamer, I know Titus is scumreading them but I haven't had strong feelings either way

[furtiveglance]

RE: furtive's towncase on kitten, the only towny looking post in your MQ is from a different game, so I don't quite vibe with it. I can see kitten's emotions being genuine but that's also the part of my mafia playing where I get all hazy and do bad things that eliminate the wrong people.

MQ?

[furtiveglance]

Twilight time

[furtiveglance]

Not feeling too hopeful

[furtiveglance]

Lycanfire, can you give your conclusions maybe?

[furtiveglance]

I read some of it, but I know that when I post stuff like that I try and give people a TLDR as well

[furtiveglance]

There isn't a tldr to a map and KA remains unflipped

There's a TLDR in you can say your thoughts on most and least associated in the event of a scum flip. I don't think this becomes worthless if kitten flips town either

[furtiveglance]

2nd

[furtiveglance]

bianco is town guys - oh wait

[furtiveglance]

I'm townreading ranger, someone help

Yeah me too

[furtiveglance]

As for possible roleblocking/redirection of KT, it wasn't me. The thing is it's something Ranger has no reason to lie about as either alignment

[furtiveglance]

What do we think of quiet owl? His post at daystart was bad

I'm trying to remember why I thought they were town

Been a long time

[furtiveglance]

I might have scumsided more than I thought

VOTE: Quiet Owl

[furtiveglance]

Okay! Nevermind about Gimli or Lycan. I cannot see a world where either are scum. Ranger looks a whole lot worse and everyone else probably wants my blood now And I deserve it.

Okay so they were a... Compulsive... Disloyal... Doctor...

Okay... So they were a doctor, that used their ability every night regardless of user input, but the doctor ability ONLY worked on townies? So a negative utility for the mafia? Did they get to control who they targeted at all or was it random? If it was random that'd be annoying for them because they could target who they were trying to kill. If it wasn't random it'd be useless because I'd just target some townie that we weren't touching that night.

I thought my role seemed odd.

Anyway, who are we voting for Ranger today Gimli?

there's multiple kills. multiple scumkills! it makes perfect sense.

Wait am I missing something? How do we know there's multiple scumkills? I kinda assumed the multiple kills at night were from SK or vig.

The word scumkills usually includes/implies SK, at least to me

[furtiveglance]

Fingers crossed

[furtiveglance]

rip Elements, you were a cool role

VOTE: Quiet Owl

[furtiveglance]

i'll full claim, it doesn't matter

i'm town even day vengeful odd day super saint.

I believe this claim since Gimli seemed genuinely happy to be voted earlier.

claiming may actually be useful at this point.

i am a town hated [REDACTED]

essentially, a JOAT with no list of approved actions. i send in a night action and hope it works.
N1: successfully neopolitan'd catscratch
N2: attempted to doc gimli, no idea if that was successful or not
N3: attempted to vig ranger. clearly it didn't work, since she's still alive

This looks extremely haphazard, and it's notable that only one of these actions is remotely provable (and this one didn't work).

-Summon

[furtiveglance]

A thought I had is that KittyTacky sent to Ranger on night 2. Ranger was scum. We don't have any town confirmation that KittyTacky does actually send what he says he does on even-numberered nights.

That's true, but if I recall correctly, Ranger denied having something that KT gave her at some point. I'm wondering why S/S wouldn't just say that it arrived fine? It's possible that it actually didn't reach Ranger in either world, but it seems slightly anti-associative to me.

-Summon

[furtiveglance]

altslip noooooooo

[furtiveglance]

use ascetic ability

Wow, first scum win ever! Thanks to my teammates and hydra partner!

[furtiveglance]

Mod thread is worth a read for sure

[furtiveglance]

Is there a reason that 'furtive...mafia' wasn't sent to Prince?

[furtiveglance]

oh damn
Were there spoilers or did the dead thread just have good reads?
I'd love to read it

[furtiveglance]

I am truly sorry

We thought the game looked fairly impossible if we cooperated

[furtiveglance]

Damn I forgot I had that vanillaiser ability - I guess it wouldn't have done anything anyway.

Also, did KittyTacky mention the furtiveglance/Ranger message?

I can't believe we didn't just get outted by the dead thread LMFAO

[furtiveglance]

Dead Thread, Dead Thread

[furtiveglance]

Dead thread?

[furtiveglance]

Dead thread powers seem a bit overpowered looking back at it now

Meh, no one bought it lol

I remember when Prince posted that and I thought it could bring us down...only for LLD to convincingly argue that it made us conftown!!!and I was like....I'm not sure we're QUITE confirmed but we basically are...lololol. It's like in business, she moved the goalposts so far that bringing us back to near conftown seemed reasonable from me. Maybe hydras are OP, who knows. I can see now that we had double the thread presence by virtue of being 2 users