Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[PenguinPower]

Well this got off to a quick start.

Do you people have any experience with mafia? I'm fresh out of the clusterfuck which is Telegram Werewolf, which was what really brought me back after a year long hiatus. I'm a little more experienced now though, and hopefully a little better at catching the baddies.

This is my 2nd newbie game (1st from the start), and third on the site. Both of the previous games are ongoing, so I can't say anything about them. I played a different style of forum mafia on another site, different than here (Days were 48 hours, nights were 24 hours).

Also...VOTE: AstralFlare. Avatar is too cute...trying to throw us off, I think.

[PenguinPower]

How can you accuse someone of having a too-cute avatar when yours is a penguin! And your *name* is a penguin

VOTE: Penguin for overwhelming cuteness

In my defense, my Penguin has a sword which detracts from said cuteness factor and reinforces a badassness factor.

[PenguinPower]

Hello Imp.

Vaguely scummy vibes from Penguin.

I thought it was strange that PP didn't seem to want to talk with Shannon in 29 (he didn't have any questions for her), but it felt more like a playstyle thing than an alignment thing. If anything, scum has more reason to chat people up, especially this early in the game when there's so little pressure. He's still a null read for me.

You thought it was strange I didn't question someone referencing my avatar's cuteness? I probably should have more strongly referenced the ninja stars as well.

Well...if we're already at that stage after 34 posts...
What are your thoughts on Chrimi's response in post 24 to AF's question in post 22?

[PenguinPower]

I still suck at linking posts. Apologies. Reference the post numbers themselves.

[PenguinPower]

On the other hand... she opened up with a self vote in Open 398, where she ended up being scum. I couldn't find any other games where she started like that.

That

was

a long time ago. Not sure that's relatable.

PP: since you asked about it, you probably have some thoughts on the Chrimi/AF interaction. Could you share them?

I don't really. It seems fairly innocent to me. I can see how it could be twisted to be scummy, but I don't think that's the case here. That interaction, to me, was the only somewhat serious interaction so far - besides yours and mine - and since we moved toward being serious, I wanted to get your thoughts.

Rocnix and Chrimi, why aren't you voting?

Good question. It's RVS - why the passive play?

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

Where did you give us the name? I don't see that.

[PenguinPower]

penguin: do you live in North America? West Coast?

US - Central Time

What's your case on Shannon as your strongest scum read at the moment?

[PenguinPower]

a reaction test

@implosion

I've seen this a couple of times. I understand what a reaction test is in terms of testing someone's reaction. How is it actually used/intended to be used in forum mafia?

[PenguinPower]

Hiding alts is more harmful to town than it is to scum, because it makes it harder to get accurate reads. I guess it could be argued that that information also helps scum get pr reads, but the benefits of town having that information far outweighs the drawbacks of scum having that information. Hiding an alt is almost strictly an anti-town play, and is therefore scummy.

What's your prior experience with Mafia? You have a July '16 join date, but seem pretty experienced in your comments and questions.

[PenguinPower]

Here's my take on Chrimi so far:

Self-voting is a good way to get discussion going:

Spoiler:

Self voting during RVS is a fun way to get some conversation started in my opinion :b

No, wait, it's a joke:

Spoiler:

I know I started it. I was mostly joking. :u

No, wait, it's both:

Spoiler:

Do you people have any experience with mafia? I'm fresh out of the clusterfuck which is Telegram Werewolf, which was what really brought me back after a year long hiatus. I'm a little more experienced now though, and hopefully a little better at catching the baddies.

If you check my join date, you can see I have 5 years experience playing mafia.

Also, I was joking

and

wanting to cause discussion.

Oh crap, I caused discussion...about me!:

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait

Are you guys seriously taking my first post's RVS joking self-vote as somehow scummy?

I've had alternate accounts, as well, not that it matters. I've also played a shitton off-site. :s

I have an alt. Here's the name:

Spoiler:

I was quite literally doing the opposite of hiding behind alts by pointing out that I have an alt and telling you their name so you can go see more of my meta...

It's Viomi - I was much more aggressive on that alt than on this one, back when I used it.

No, I have two alts, but I only consider it one because reasons:

Spoiler:

And yes, I do have two alts, but the second one is literally a Hydra between this account and the first alt, so i don't really consider it an actual alt.

No, I have multiple alts, and I can't understand why you want me to give the names:

Spoiler:

Yes but how is not wanting to give the names of all my alts scummy?

Defensive vote because implosion challenged me:

Spoiler:

implosion, I shouldn't have to explain this to an

experienced player

, but here you go anyways:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

VOTE: implosion for pretending you don't already know this.

I'm doing nothing scummy, but I'm going to decide what information benefits the town and not answer questions:

Spoiler:

People are searching through my meta and starting an extremely early wagon on me for doing literally nothing scummy. It's amusing.

I gave it an answer. You whined about the answer not being worded the way you like.

Where did you answer his question? You never actually explained why you're not voting in post #58, you just said that it isn't scummy, something nobody even implied was the case.

Mm, if it isn't scummy, then take your vote somewhere else.

Leaning scum.

[PenguinPower]

Im not voting you...yet. And it's not about each individual point that makes you scummy to me, it's everything together. Waffling and defensive.

[PenguinPower]

pp: My case on shannon is above in 109, as you've probably seen. I really don't want to lynch you if you are getting up early to play mafia lol. Who do you think is Chrimi's partner? Why are you still voting af?

RVS vote that I haven't taken off yet because I don't have anywhere better to place it. I don't think AF is currently in danger of being lynched, but might as well UNVOTE: AstralFlare

I agree that's shannon's reversal was a bit odd, but a bit early for me to say scummy. I have no idea as to a partner currently. Again, too early.

My thoughts so far:

Jibs

: Leaning town. Asking questions and actively trying to push the game forward.

AstralFlare

: Leaning town for much the same reason, but with a stronger focus on Chrimi.

0x40

: Null. Comes in with a really strong push on Chrimi...I guess that could come across as tunneling. Null right now. Could be scum trying to bus...don't know.

Rocnix

- Null. Not enough information to go off.

Chrimi

- Lean Scum. See 110

thenewearth

- Null. Playing pretty loose and carefree. Would like to know why shannon's vote was scummy. It'd be great if she could start posting more content around herthoughts.

shannon

- Null. see above

implosion

- Lean town. I've been burnt before by an IC, but I get a townie feel from his posts (logical, pushing).

[PenguinPower]

PEDIT: PP: "I-It's not about the case I just posted that makes you scummy, it's uh... It's all of it together! Waffling and defensive, even though I'm not going to provide any examples."
Yeahuh, keep that up buddy. You'll paint me scummy someday, I promise.

Sorry...just saw this. I think you read my post wrong. It's not about each individual "spoiler" point I put in my post, it's all of them together. To me, you seem waffling in your statements and overly defensive. My examples are in the post.

[PenguinPower]

I didn't defend against one of those points, I defended against all of them. So for you to say "It's all the points together!" When I defended against all the points together is asinine.

You defended against each specific point, not the greater context that resulted in me seeing waffling and defensiveness. Either way, I'm done with this as bickering back and forth is not productive. I saw something, you disagree. That's fine.

@thenewearth: Why do you think shannon's vote was scummy. You stated it, but I didn't see your reasoning.

@0x40: What are your thoughts on Jib's case on shannon? What are your thoughts on any player other than Chrimi?

[PenguinPower]

PenguinPower: I'll admit to being underwhelmed by 147. What do you make of all the events which have happened since then?

Instead of me responding this time, I would like to know why you were "underwhelmed" by my thoughts. I'll respond after.

[PenguinPower]

So, here we go. Absent the continued politeness, which I either find refreshing or intentionally off throwing...

and it was surprising that you couldn't pick a scumpartner for Chrimi.

In the two games I have played before this one, I have learned/been taught that town should not be focusing on multiple scum reads Day1. There are too many possibilities, and too many ways to be thrown off. You should focus on your scummiest and go from there. From that, I could not logically and reasonably find a second scum read. If you want to infer from my readlist at the time, you can infer it was 0x40.

At that point, if you think Chrimi is scum, you should be very suspicious of imp for scumreading her, making an incredibly weak push on her, and then leaving his vote on you.

Why? implosion put his vote on me based on tone in the very beginning of the game. We're still more than a week out from deadline and with plenty of discussion left to be had. implosions scumread on Chrimi was light and maybe more of a push than anything else at the time. I wasn't suspicious at all, especially since 0x40 was pushing harder.

I guess the broader point here is that I didn't sense the sort of narrative that town generally has about the game. I like your tone in 170, but I've still got you as a scumlean. Idk man, tell me about the game.

First...I still have you leantown, but less so. I'm not sure if your "nice guy" persona is genuine play or an attempt at diversion...but its probably NAI. That being said...

I lean less scum on Chrimi but still my scummiest. I still don't like the total context of her posts, but it does seem more towny when taking the entire defense into context. I would like to hear from thenewearth and 0x40 before changing my reads on them. I would like to see Rocnix do more than respond to you with reads and maybe actually start pushing people/doing something. shannon and implosion remain unchanged for now.

Btw...this is the first you mention of me as a scum lean (besides a 26 out of an assumed 100?). Thanks. I'd like to hear more of your case since you've come out with that now compared with the others.

[PenguinPower]

Also penguin, sorry for being quiet. I was a bit busy yesterday, but am more free for now. Question: Are you still voting for AstralFlare (I couldn't find an unvote skimming thorough the archive, please correct me if my info there is wring)? If so, why?

I'm not. It was an RVS vote. I am currently withholding my vote until the next vote count.

[PenguinPower]

@mod - I unvoted AstralFlare

Fixed. Of course this is still 100% my fault for missing it, but it would really helpful if you would in the future keep the vote to the left/on a new line as much as possible, so it is more noticeable Thanks! -IV

[PenguinPower]

@mod - I unvoted AstralFlare

Fixed. Of course this is still 100% my fault for missing it, but it would really helpful if you would in the future keep the vote to the left/on a new line as much as possible, so it is more noticeable Thanks! -IV

Sorry. Will do.

No need to apologize -IV

[PenguinPower]

I feel like your tone in this game is a little bit too conciliatory, especially towards me. Even in the post I am replying to, you seem to be bowing to thread sentiment on Chrimi. Logically, I understand that it's dumb to scumread somebody for not being a jerk, but that's how it feels here.

I'm not being conciliatory...I'm trying not to replicate my borderline-offensive behavior from my previous newbie game which led to me being lynched Day 2 and an eventual scum win. We're 185 posts in and I don't have anyone at a point where I'm going to latch on and try to get them lynched. Hell, Day 1 in my last game went something like 1300 posts before we got a lynch. Sorry, if that's your case at this point, it's fairly weak.

rocnix 19

I'm curious as to why you have rocnix so low...she has done nothing this game. At best, she should be null. "It feels bad but I'm it is what it is" is weak.

PenguinPower reads like a newbie trying to figure things out through imitation, which he isn't. Browsing his past games indicates that he follows his townreads, but I don't think he's made meaningful townreads at this point, so the meta doesn't excuse the behavior. Weak scumread.

Past games? All 2 of them? Let's do a quick recap:
647: Diffusion of Power. My first game on this site, and I was woefully unprepared to play outside a newbie game. I didn't know WTH I was doing so I hopped on wagons that others started. I was town. We lost.
1725: Innocents, Inc. My first newbie game. I replaced into. I still didn't know WTH I was doing. I buddied up with the IC (who turned out to be scum), was brash and offensive, and it got me lynched day 2. I was town. We lost.

This is my third game, and my first from the start. I'm still trying to define my play style, but obviously what I was doing before didn't work out well. I think trying to define my meta - and especially establishing a read based on it - is a bit silly at this point.

[PenguinPower]

PP: Why aren't you voting? You said in Post 147 that you were unvoting your RVS but wasn't voting as you had nowhere better to place it. And yet, you read Chrimi as scum in the very same post.

Because of post 81:

I believe Chrimi is at L-2 but I'm not certain; I'd recommend not voting her until we get another vote count.

I assumed that was implosion acting in IC capacity.

[PenguinPower]

I have dropped it (post 162)). Do you see my vote on you?

I have new thoughts based on interactions between that post and now, but I would like some answers to my questions before I firm those up.

[PenguinPower]

Yet you answered AstralFlare's question to "why aren't you voting?" with "Chrimi's at L-2 and the IC says we shouldn't vote her until there's a vote count."

He brought up my comment in 147, which I was addressing. At that time, the only reason I wasn't voting you

was

because of what the IC said. Up until 175 that was still the case.

Between 147 and now there have been a few things that have made me rethink my positions, which also include my position on you.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry for the absence...work-related situation came up. So...didn't get answers to all my questions, but there's been enough interaction that I think I can make some reasonable reads based off more than gut. Here we go...

0x40:

Spoiler:

Thanks for finally providing a readlist:

Here are my reads so far:
Jibs: Seems to be extremely overconfident in some of his reads, putting shannon at 31% scum for very minor reasons, and townreading Rocnix at 19% scum for seemingly no reason at all. He thinks policy lynching is a good enough of an idea to bring it up, which is insane from a town perspective. Lynching based on policy rather than lynching whoever is the most scummy is extremely anti-town. He wants Chrimi to not get replaced and doesn't give a good explanation why. 32% scum.

Chrimi: Isn't really scumhunting much, is very selective in the questions she chooses to answer, selfvoted during rvs, votes implosion for some strange reason, and doesn't seem to have much of a read on anyone. 30% scum.

thenewearth: Pretty much all her posts are completely useless. Seems to have basically no reads whatsoever on anyone, and has done next to no scumhunting. 27% scum.

shannon: Doesn't seem to have any reads on anyone either, but seems to at least trying to scumhunt. 23% scum.

implosion: Hasn't really given much of a read on anyone since post #33, but that's kinda understandable considering that not much has happened in this game so far. 23% scum.

AstralFlare: Is supposedly working on a readlist that will be posted today. Been actively scumhunting. 22% scum.

PenguinPower: Makes a reasonable case against Chrimi in #110. Has a readlist that makes sense. 20% scum.

Rocnix: Has a readlist that's almost identical to PenguinPower's. Not much else to go by. 23% scum.

Unfortunately, it's pretty crappy. But thanks for summarizing what you've been doing - tunneling Chrimi and being null on everyone else save Jib recently. I do agree with one point: Jib reading Rocnix so towny based on absolutely nothing. At this point, you are either leanscum or strongtown based on your brashness and unwillingness to let go of the alt thing. You never answered my question about your prior experience, so I'm going to assume you have prior experience and go with, this is a play to look town.

Leanscum

.

AstralFlare:

Spoiler:

Would still like to see your reads:

Any readlists you guys feel like sharing? Mine comes tomorrow.

I've had a third to half of it written out right now, I'm afraid it's going to be a wall. Probably tomorrow night my time. (GMT +8)

Not sure if you were just promising them and then hoping we would forget, or if you just haven't had time yet, but I don't want to let it go. I have you originally as leantown based on your pushing Chrimi - which seemed like trying to move the game forward at the time given what little we had to go on - but you haven't done much since and you haven't delivered on your promise.

Null

until reads.

Chrimi:

Spoiler:

Yes, I pushed and didn't let go or let it drop for probably too long, and part of that was likely emotional given I don't like being insulted, but part of it was also because we didn't have anything else at the time and trying to get people to weigh in - let me make this clear...NOT ON YOUR ALT USAGE - but on the way that you responded and some inconsistencies, was my way of trying to push forward and get knew insight. I agree the alt thing is NAI, and now that you're getting clear of the 0x40 distraction, I like your reads on 0x40 and AstralFlare, though I think your case is a bit light on AF. Look forward to your real read on 0x40. I made a mistake in my original read...

Leantown

.

implosion:

Spoiler:

Agree with your thoughts on Rocnix, and I'm glad someone is not townreading her for her open reads - (e.g. Jibs). I disagree with your town read on AF and 0x40, but they are reasoned enough. I'm glad you're going to separate the IC stuff out as that will make me reading your actual play a little easier. I'm hesitant due to past experience with an IC, but I still

leantown

. Are you going to provide a full reads list?

Jibs:

Spoiler:

Ok, first...I don't like the continued niceness in the posts, especially after the admission that it is fake.

^__^ my polite demeanor is fake as shit lol.

This does nothing but hide true tone behind a facade of niceness, and makes it harder to get a real tone read. Why would town want to do that? Yes, I originally said it was NAI...I'm not so sure now.

I don't like his townread on Rocnix, which I have already stated, and especially after admitting it was terrible.

My townread on rocnix is terrible and I should feel bad... but that's how it feels.

The follow up explanation was not much better:

It is a mystery to me as well, my friend. I remember thinking that 161, and especially the reads on you and Chrimi, felt town.

It's a mystery still? Two sentence reads feel town?

Yes, Jibs is pushing the game forward...but is it to find scum or to manipulate the direction while appearing town? At this point, I don't know...I look forward to hearing more on this:

I'm townreading Imp, and his points on rocnix feel pretty good, I think I will go back into her ISO.

Nullscum

for now. Will change after his follow up.

Rocnix:

Spoiler:

As I said above, I agree with implosion's read on Rocnix. Her reads are vacillating which is something that would help scum!Rocnix down the road.

I really do not like this:

I do not trust 0x40 by any means. It looked like he was tunneling Chrimi, but when he included thenewearth in that attack it looked more like he was targeting anyone who presented the opportunity. He looks like he's searching for an easy lynch, so I have a moderate scumread here.

to this:

Based on the sudden attack on Jibs, 0x40 reads like town motivated primarily by OMGUS at this point, so
UNVOTE: 0x40

Why wouldn't the sudden attack on Jibs be another opportunity? Why does it change a moderate scumread to town?

Leanscum

.

shannon:

Spoiler:

I like the reaction test - at least I do if that was the true intent which I believe it was. I do not like the readlist in 267 as everyone is town or null. Just like Rocnix, it is leaving too much room for denial/movement if needed. I do like that she is not giving Jibs a free pass. So, while I don't list the readlist, we are on a similar page regarding 0x40 and Jibs.

Leantown

for now. I know this is the least I have said about a read in this post, but I need more to analyze from her.

thenewearth:

Spoiler:

Nope...this is the least I'm going to say. Never answered my question re: shannon's vote. Nothing has really changed in terms of content since my initial read besides the vote on 0x40. Please start posting reads.

Null.

Votes look like currently:
Chrimi: AstralFlare; 0x40
thenewearth: Rocnix
Jibs: shannon
Rocnix: implosion
0x40: thenewearth
Not voting: Jibs, Me

Based on my reads VOTE: Rocnix

p-edit:

Looks like AF posted his reads.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry for the lack of activity this weekend. Putting on a kid's Tri and it's taking more than I thought. I will catch up either tonight or first thing in the morning at the latest.

[PenguinPower]

I'll do stuff in 2-3 hours

Net is bullshit right now and I'm waaaaaayyy too lazy

I'll be more serious after I'm done doing my shit

brb prod dodging

You keep saying that while we are now more than halfway through Day 1. It's a scummy thing to do to draw town close to deadline before they lynch, right? That's what derailed my first newbie game, ending in a scum win. I'll be back to check in 2-3 hours to see if you have posted anything...

[PenguinPower]

So...you were too busy, and needed 2-3 hours, to basically say that 0x40 is scum because he's tunneling your subjectively-called weakest player, Chrimi; and, that shannon is town because you said so but will never tell us. Oh and screw providing your town reads because...yeah...

Solid reasoning...thanks for your contributions...you have definitely helped town out here.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

You're the only one not discussing the other people, so your lack of content in that regard doesn't do much. However, you are the only one not discussing other people or providing any sort of rationale for your read on 0x40 besides his tunneling, which is weak rationale on its own, and that does hurt the town.

Keep on lurking, delaying, and providing little to no content. That helps.

p-edit

is that L-1?

[PenguinPower]

is that L-1?

It is. Some VIs can't even bother to announce when their vote puts someone at L-1 apparently.

You need to stop. It's a distraction and not helping the town at all, and it is really annoying.

[PenguinPower]

Ok, 340 seems like a reasonable defense from tne.

Sorry for any confusion earlier tne, I'm very tired.

For the shannon vote, or overall?

[PenguinPower]

When can we get a prod on Rocnix? I understand the weekend is just now over, but's it's been about 3 days...

[PenguinPower]

Ok, 340 seems like a reasonable defense from tne.

Sorry for any confusion earlier tne, I'm very tired.

For the shannon vote, or overall?

Eh, those are basically the same thing to me at this point.

Then you're letting tne off too easy for a weak scum read that you haven't done for anyone else so far...that's concerning. Where's the questioning, pushing? Why does someone who have less content posts than anyone else get off with an "eh" based on less than 20 words?

[PenguinPower]

Now that I understand town motivation behind her shannon play, I have no reason for scumreading her. I would call her a slight townlean at this point--if she is scum, her partner would almost have to be an experienced player, imp or Chrimi or maybe af.

Given the content she's provided, I still find it suspect that you are letting her off so easy based on your "understanding." You're questioning me more based on my one post than her overall contribution.

Can you tell me a little more about Rocnix? Any posts that stand out to you as scummy?

I've made my statements. I think she did start the wagon on TNE, which I find interesting...and could open up a few possibilities. I would like a prod and for her to return to see what happens.

And what about 0x40? Why is it your job to tell him how to play the game in 354?

Not trying to tell him how to play, but I'm far from the only one to state that he's gone too far. It's an objective fact that his sole focus is distracting and bordering on harassment.

Care to extend your rationale, logical questioning to TNE? Or does, "[expletive] town reads, [expletive] bussing" suffice?

[PenguinPower]

Hello all, couldn't sleep.

I rescind my intent to hammer

All the cryptic stuff kind of fried my brain, so I forgot about the basic mechanics of the lynch. I am very worried about there being scum on that wagon.

Please don't claim tne.

4 on...why are you suddenly very worried?

[PenguinPower]

He called her null and then started criticizing things she was doing but never really committed, either to calling her scum or voting her or declaring intent to hammer.

Why would I call her scum, vote, or declare an intent to hammer on my null read - who was a null read due to not providing any information - who had still not provided any information? I am still waiting for something substantive, but I'm not going to be responsible for a PR outing or a mislynch on someone who I don't even had a weak scum lean on. I criticized her play because it's not helpful, but it's NAI at this point - with 5 days still remaining.

It looks to me like he doesn't want to impede the tne wagon, but doesn't want to appear committed to it or responsible for it in the event that it is hammered.

I don't want to be responsible for it at all. I didn't need - or have the chance - to impede, because the intent was placed and removed before I had a chance to see it. I did question that move as nothing occurred between when it was placed and removed. I also didn't see anything wrong with having tne at L-1 because then she may finally post something.

This is further bolstered by his most recent post in which he asks Jibs why he's so worried about hammering, while Penguin doesn't offer to hammer himself or really give a strong sense of where he's at with regards to his opinion on tne yet.

See above.

tne overall reads as having a lot of genuine conviction, which could come from scum who thinks that 0x40 is town who does look objectively scummy, but It's still some amount townish. I think it is a bit more likely that she is just town who isn't sure why people don't see what she sees.

I think it's townish because you want to see it as townish. I don't see genuine conviction.

But penguin is also the only player who has yet to really do anything that strikes me significantly as town.

Really? 0x40 has done things that strike you significantly as town? Rocnix? Tne? Their contributions have been significantly town? To call their contributions townish, and to say that I have done nothing townish, is ridiculous.

I am a bit surprised pp didn't vote me, as either alignment.

Absent a scumslip, significant new information, or us getting within 72 hours of deadline, I don't see my vote changing until Rocnix - or her slot - returns and starts participating. You're still on my watchlist.

[PenguinPower]

Alright...tne is town. 1723 just wrapped up. Exact same play style. Can you please start participating a bit more? Your behavior there got you lynched D1.

[PenguinPower]

Alright...tne is town. 1723 just wrapped up. Exact same play style. Can you please start participating a bit more? Your behavior there got you lynched D1.

I am curious about this though - were you just randomly meta-ing her?

In my first newbie game, I made a correct scum-call based on a his play in a game that ended in the middle of our D2 - though too late for me to do anything with. I've been watching ongoing games which have our current players in it waiting for them to end to see if I can do the same. 1723 happened to end and tne's play lined up the same as her play here. I think that's the best information I have to go on with anyone in our current game.

[PenguinPower]

I've been sticking with newbie games...I've played one none newbie game and I had trouble reading that one.

[PenguinPower]

I mean, in 335, you very heavily imply that you find tne's behavior scummy, asking "it's scummy to do this, right?"

I wasn't heavily implying anything. It was a question - as I've been told that by one other person in one other game - and if that is true then the behavior could be seen as scummy if not remedied. What happened two hours later? Posting. I disagreed with the value, but at least she started participating. Sorry if you think my "jabbing" is scummy, but my scumlean has been prodded and is not participating, and questioning TNE was the only thing leading to discussion. Hell, it led to you questioning me, which is at least moving the game.

All that is moot now, though. TNE is my strongest town read at this point.

Towntelling isn't just about contributing; nothing you've said so far has really read to me as particularly indicative of town, whereas I can cite things (and have cited things in my ISO) for all of those players you listed that I believe are indicative of town. Even if you're town, in what way is it ridiculous of me to have those reads? It'd simply mean that more of my reads are incorrect.

I didn't say anything about your reads being ridiculous...though maybe your reading comprehension?

[PenguinPower]

Looks like Rocnix isn't coming back, and we won't get a replacement until D2. I will not support a TNE lynch, and I'm hesitant on Chrimi and AF. I'm willing to pursue Jibs or 0x40. Jibs has been more involved, but to what end...I don't know.

UNVOTE: Rocnix
VOTE: 0x40

[PenguinPower]

pp: do you think the tne wagon had scum on it? I believe it was AF, Rocnix, implosion, Chrimi, and myself at the end.

Probably...given my reads.

[PenguinPower]

Not claiming.

Why not? You realize that's the standard practice at this stage?

[PenguinPower]

Chrimi, PenguinPower, could you two clarify as to why you think it's a good idea to claim right now? Preferably in that order.

I've already stated why...

At MS, the typical procedure is to put someone at L-1 (that is, one vote away from lynch) and then instead of hammering (voting the final vote), someone declares "intent to hammer" and asks for a claim.

[PenguinPower]

Pushing the inevitable discussion closer to deadline can only help scum.

Especially going into a weekend with a deadline ending on a Sunday evening. This is exactly how my first newbie game went into a death spiral for town.

0x40, you have an intent to hammer. Please claim. You haven't even tried to present an alternative wagon.

[PenguinPower]

Claim and/or present an alternative wagon. Please do something other than tunneling someone else for little reason, especially someone who just came into the game. We are now less than 48 hours to deadline.

[PenguinPower]

That's.. very interesting? So we've got a JK, BP or both.

Wait...why just those two? Could there not also be a Doctor?

[PenguinPower]

2) at some point, I believe a scum started directing the lynch (although not sure which).
When I say "directing" I mean, actively directing fire at him, as he already was the easiest and weakest candidate for a simple elimination.

Who do you think it was?

4) Why, if the priority to lynch and get info, did implosion ask 0x40 questions, and not add his vote? Especially since 0x40 was at L-2, and Implosion didn't consider this a 'sure' wagon? An info seeking vote could have really helped put the pressure on 0x40 to give us useable stuff instead of just attitude.

I agree with this being concerning. He's calling for consolidation on what ends up being town, but remains off the wagon himself.

Me forgetting this setup might have a doctor is suspicious? Oh boy.

Why would it be weird for someone to see a scumslip in that?

[PenguinPower]

I think he's scum who is concerned how that vote will make him look, or who is trying to get a feel for how d2 will be playing out.

Why wouldn't town want to do the same? We're less than 2 days into D2. We've had a claim, but not everyone has responded since then. Why would I start/hop on a wagon so early? Re: Chrimi's possible scum slip...see post 552. I did the same, but shannon corrected. And yes, I haven't been very active D2...it's been a busy workweek this week. Sorry you're allowed to have that happen, but not me.

This implies he's keeping his vote on Rocnix specifically because she's gone missing and he wants to continue pressuring the slot, but he switches to 0x40 specifically because she had disappeared (for reference, a little over 96 hours before deadline I believe). That to me belies that he didn't actually have an internally consistent motivation for pushing Rocnix; the fact that he justified both keeping his vote on her and unvoting her with the fact that she had been gone suggests that he is not town, as town would either consider it a reason to keep voting or to not keep voting, as opposed to both.

It implies that Rocnix was my strongest scum read D1, but I wasn't going to risk the town getting a no lynch or rushing at deadline. I previously said that a deadline rush to lynch cost town the game in my last newbie. You can read whatever else into that you want, but I pretty objectively stated that.

You're case against me is that I don't play this game like you do.

[PenguinPower]

What I didn't like was how hard he tried to push the TNE wagon when she was L-1 without even FoSing her, even after his scumreads from his 280 readlist were Jibs/imp. Also a 'sideline sitting' 'hesitating to commit' attitude which rubs me not as a playstyle thing, but as a scum-motivated thing. Implosion elaborated more on those.

I wasn't trying to push her wagon (and what is FoSing?). I was trying to get her to participate. She was a null read for me until I saw her previous game conclude, and I had stronger scum reads. I'm not hesitating to commit, but I do like to act after I have sufficient information.

Right now, tne is my strongest town read, and I'd like to see what she has to say now that Chrimi has claimed.

[PenguinPower]

For a crappy attitude, being unwilling to participate unless put at L-1, and asking people to claim? Why?

I've already stated that. Post 394. You'll ask why does that matter, so I'll go ahead and refer you to post 401.

[PenguinPower]

Lets face it, not only is BP useless, its more anti-town than pro-town.

Why? Can you explain why a PR is anti-town?

2) 70% of people would lynch the BP on MyLo. Its a thing that BP is the most anti-town claim in the universe

Again, why is it an anti-town claim?

Do you mean you want to lynch Chrimi today?

This is what I took away from post 569. Why should we lynch a claimed and not CC'd role?

[PenguinPower]

You also pretty objectively stated that your vote would remain on Rocnix until there were 72 hours left in the day (or until there was a scumslip or significant new information, neither of which I think appeared in that span). The fact that you sounded both eager to keep your vote on Rocnix and eager to take it off is just strange - I'm fine with the attitude of not wanting to rush at deadline, but I don't think your attitude in 389 is consistent with that attitude, especially given that there were about 24 hours between 389 and 410 which is a very short period of time to go from keeping your vote in one spot until further notice to avoiding a deadline rush.

I like the manipulation here...well done. I especially like the appeal to emotion with the "eager" wording...which I was never in either situation. At the time of that post, it had been four days from Roxnix's last post. Yeah, there were more than 24 hours - not by much - but there was also a difference of a possible return or replace out. As of post 410 it was obvious the slot was going to be replaced and a D1 focus wasn't going to accomplish anything.

Care to present post 432 442 and 451? At this time, we were heading into a weekend deadline and I wanted to get a claim...which should be apparent.

[PenguinPower]

You also pretty objectively stated that your vote would remain on Rocnix until there were 72 hours left in the day (or until there was a scumslip or significant new information, neither of which I think appeared in that span). The fact that you sounded both eager to keep your vote on Rocnix and eager to take it off is just strange - I'm fine with the attitude of not wanting to rush at deadline, but I don't think your attitude in 389 is consistent with that attitude, especially given that there were about 24 hours between 389 and 410 which is a very short period of time to go from keeping your vote in one spot until further notice to avoiding a deadline rush.

I like the manipulation here...well done. I especially like the appeal to emotion with the "eager" wording...which I was never in either situation. At the time of that post, it had been four days from Roxnix's last post. Yeah, there were more than 24 hours - not by much - but there was also a difference of a possible return or replace out. As of post 410 it was obvious the slot was going to be replaced and a D1 focus wasn't going to accomplish anything.

Care to present post 432 442 and 451? At this time, we were heading into a weekend deadline and I wanted to get a claim...which should be apparent.

"eager" may have been inaccurate.

When you call my post manipulative, are you implying that it is in a scummy way?

Why do you think it was significantly more obvious that the slot was going to be replaced as of post 410 compared to 389? Essentially what I see right now is that you flipped this over the span of only one day, which to me doesn't seem to be enough time to go from thinking the pressure on rocnix was worth it to thinking rocnix was probably going to be replaced.

Also I'm not sure what you mean with regards to 432, 442 and 451.

We went past the "prod" deadline after those 24 hours. It was obvious at that point that Rocnix was going to be replaced. My reference to the posts are why I changed my vote where I did even though I had scum read Rocnix slot.

When I call your posts manipulative, I mean that they seem that way. Town could manipulate for town reasons or scum for scum reasons. I'm not sure yet. Why do you always try an attribute my actions to be scum reading someone?

[PenguinPower]

I want them both to talk.

Um...I have?

[PenguinPower]

I don't usually do this but when an IC says this:

Yeah I don't know what PR solvable means to begin with. In that post I was attempting to guess X_X

Then that means the IC is scum. If he were town he'd agree because IC would usually be super experienced with this setup AND would know that this game would be easily solved. Heck even newbies with a bit of thought can think about why. And trust me I've been caught offguard by newbie games alot 3 years ago

He also said the last time he was an IC was 5 years ago. Is it not reasonable to assume that he really does not have an idea? So far, I think you are the only one that has a clue what you are talking about in regard to PR solvable...

[PenguinPower]

TNE I don't get it, so if I make guesses will you walk me through? In the spirit of helpfulness?

Here's what I've got -

Scum is unlikely to claim BP D2 because they'd have to explain why they are alive for the rest of the game, i.e why two shots weren't taken on them.

Scum are more likely to claim BP pre-LYLO because by then they'd have a better idea of whether such a claim was even plausible, because there'd usually be at least one PR flip. So like, if a doctor had flipped, no point scum trying to claim BP.

So the early claim makes Chrimi more likely to be town?

That's all I've got, am I on the right track?

So, if this is the case, why would tne advocate lynching Chrimi (BP)? An early BP claim is more likely to be town...why would we lynch a likely town? And how does this solve the game?

[PenguinPower]

It would be PP. But I yet to have a better case to vote. I don't think voting basing only on someone's

First...uh, what?

Second, what's your case on me? You stated you were going to read my ISO, but you haven't commented. It looks like your case so far is sheeping a null/weak townlean who is now voting you.

What are your thoughts on implosion and tne since your post 560? Any scummier/townier on either, or are they still null?

[PenguinPower]

TNE I don't get it, so if I make guesses will you walk me through? In the spirit of helpfulness?

Here's what I've got -

Scum is unlikely to claim BP D2 because they'd have to explain why they are alive for the rest of the game, i.e why two shots weren't taken on them.

Scum are more likely to claim BP pre-LYLO because by then they'd have a better idea of whether such a claim was even plausible, because there'd usually be at least one PR flip. So like, if a doctor had flipped, no point scum trying to claim BP.

So the early claim makes Chrimi more likely to be town?

That's all I've got, am I on the right track?

So, if this is the case, why would tne advocate lynching Chrimi (BP)? An early BP claim is more likely to be town...why would we lynch a likely town? And how does this solve the game?

He's not advocating lynching me, check his vote.

@TNE: Stop voting Implosion, I don't know what you mean by PR solvable either.

569 572...maybe not pushing for it, but advocating. I don't understand why you would want to lynch someone you thought was town, especially a PR.

[PenguinPower]

Implosion

: I don't like his use of incorrect information to paint me as scummy. He's saying that "Oops, I didn't realize." But I don't think that's the case since, as shannon pointed out, he did it to her to. null scum

Drone

: Not much has changed since my read on the slot when Rocnix was here. Drone's reads still allow him to shift as needed. I'm his scummiest, but he still hasn't provided a case...sheeping implosion. Scum lean

Shannon

: Town. Town town town. I like her arguments and I like her reads.

Cass

: I have to say that I'm starting to think this slot as more town since Jibs left as she is providing a lot more rationale and logic, and I no longer see that off-putting fake niceness. Sees Drone as scummy. Null for now.

Chrimi

: Claimed BP with no CC. Nothing to see here.

AstralFlare

: Seems to be focused on me and tne, but his pushing seems towny. I think I have been participating, but yes, I haven't provided reads or a vote so that's fair. I dislike his scum read of implosion as that seemed too opportunistic...still Lean town.

thenewearth

: I believe my town read on her based on the other game is wrong and she's like this as town and scum. I know another player who is like that, and it's frustrating. I pretty much see everything from post 565 as unhelpful and trying to cause confusion. It really bothers me that her responses to my questions are "you'll learn from experience" or nothing at all. That's not helpful.

TNE
Drone
Implosion

VOTE: thenewearth

That's

L-1

, I believe. Answer our questions and stop being so unhelpful.

[PenguinPower]

The wagon on implosion is scum driven. Your un-CC'd claim says to get off of it and do something more useful. Like this.

Why do you say that? Who is scum that is driving the wagon? Pretty sure Cass didn't start the wagon.

Alright, no point hanging out on a case where I'm not going to get anything.

VOTE: Cass

Why Cass? What makes her scummier than implosion?

Also FWIW there's a way you're not conf town, if we're in 1 then no townie would claim a PR to counter you and there's no way that scum would say 'nuh-uh, we're both goons'.

Wouldn't that same logic apply to setup B as well?

I was seeing the Cass slot as scummy on D1; but, if I take the slot back to null once Jibs replaced out and attribute my feelings to his playstyle, I don't see what Cass has done that has led people to think that she is scum. TNE is getting a pass based on meta, even though her playstyle for both scum and town looks to be the same. There was an intent unless a decent response was given, but that wagon fell apart despite TNE's response of:

I'll answer them if I think they're worth answering, thanks

Not sure I understand that...

Absent TNE, I still think that implosion/drone are scummier than Cass right now. Most recently, I don't like this:

Drone's intent to hammer post is fine. Doesn't make me feel strongly either way.

Why was that fine? Didn't Chrimi already have an intent to hammer in place? You have seemed to be protecting the Rocnix/Drone slot for most of this game.

@mod: Can we get a vote count?

[PenguinPower]

I fail to see how saying something doesn't make me feel strongly either way in response to a question directly asking how I feel about it is "protecting". I also don't see how I've been defending that slot most of the game; I pushed Rocnix briefly then called her town, then voted drone, then unvoted drone for Cass and now drone is in about the middle of the pack for me reads-wise.

Fair enough, and maybe "deflecting" would be a better term, but you have been "deflecting" when people scumread his actions. See below:

Spoiler:

And now I want to call rocnix townier. That's a really, really weird 180 to make if she's scum. She just got a case on me and I think it's not that hard to rebut what I said if she's scum and wants to keep pushing.

Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.

"I'm not gonna bother giving reads on more than 2 players, because the guy that criticized me for not doing so sounded rude to me!"
"Getting reads is way too difficult for me, because my memory is so limited I can't remember anything meaningful!"

Yeah. You may as well claim scum then, because I doubt that even a pr claim would save you from getting lynched if you refuse to give reads on more than 2 players.

UNVOTE: Chrimi
VOTE: Drone

Yet again, you're taking a very black and white approach to things - not everyone has the time, motivation or attention span, even as town, to re-read over a game several times. There are plenty of good players on this site who will replace into games and then not even read them because it's more productive to focus effort on deducing reads from actually interacting with players.

He literally made his first post 3 hours ago; only having reads on two players at that point is not a scumclaim.

Myself and Drone were also expressing suspicion near the end so the hammer in particular is meaningless.

Why is Drone on the same level as TNE? Last thing I can see you directly saying about him is calling him a misguided townie.

Drone's intent to hammer post is fine. Doesn't make me feel strongly either way.

Your voting for Drone was, "Let me see what happens when I safely do this." And, then a wagon came along. Hop.

Your above post is towny though. Town trying to help town or scum trying to appear towny?

[PenguinPower]

Instead of haunting Implosion could you please do something useful? If I'm not wrong, Cass is at L-1.

Sorry you don't see it as useful...actually, no I'm not. I'm not "haunting" just him - my vote is still on TNE If you recall, I have all three of you in my scumreads - at differing levels of scumminess - so I will continuing "haunting" all three of you for now.

I've asked for a votecount from the mod and will not change my vote to anyone until I can see it confirmed. I've also yet to see a good case on why Cass, so even absent the madness that is going on right now, I would not hammer at this point. With the madness going on right now, I don't have a clue where to go from here. There just seems to be a lot of "WTF shannon, you suck, I'm replacing out" going on.

p-edit

We don't actually. We assume that Chrimi is BP and Shannon is JK. That would confirm the setup, if true. As has been stated, Chrimi could be lying and we could be in Setup A. I don't think she is, but it's still in the realm of possibility so nothing is "confirmed."

[PenguinPower]

Wait I realized Chrimi could have been shot so no kill, Shannon/TNE both town

UNVOTE:

This honestly makes the most sense. Chrimi would have been the best NK target N1, as I explained someone else.

But so we've narrowed it down to two of PP/Imp/Cass/Drone

Chrimi being the target wouldn't clear TNE. There are two scum and the other could have performed the NK. I don't think Chrimi is fakeclaiming, so that either means that:

1.) Scum targeted TNE
2.) Scum targeted Chrimi
3.) Scum!TNE targeted someone

I don't see 1.) as the most likely choice. As has been said, TNE's behavior D1 was confusing and somewhat chaotic. I don't see the benefit to scum if she was killed. Between 2.) and 3.), choosing 2.) does not preclude 3.) from being true as well. What is confirmed is that TNE was JK'd and there was no NK. It could very well be possible that TNE targeted Chrimi...either way Chrimi wouldn't have died.

I'm fine leaving my vote where it is. TNE's posts of "emotions" and her "reactions" are NAI...that's just how she plays.

[PenguinPower]

I see that you've slipped - Chrimi didn't claim BP until D2, so scum would not have seen her as conf town on D1.
VOTE: Astral Flare

I don't think that was a slip...he said three sentences prior that she was "pretty universally townread."

[PenguinPower]

I think you missed what I was pointing out. It's nothing to do with vote moving on anyone's part. It's that AF makes a big deal about how Chrimi would have been a good N1 target because Chrimi was conf town - but Chrimi didn't claim BP until D2. So that point is false and I think it comes from Scum AF trying to help Scum Chrimi.

Shannon, there is no logical scenario where Chrimi is scum and Tne is town (because of your jailkeeping) - or do you see one I'm missing?

Chrimi/AF nightkill TNE who is protected by the shannon. At that point, scum knows there are three potential setups. 1, C, or 3 since there was an obvious BP or protective role. Chrimi fakeclaims BP knowing that if setup 1, no one can CC and it appears legit to the JK. If setup C, takes the chance that neither PR wants to out themselves to CC on D2, and if they do, Great!. If setup 3, takes the chance that Chrimi could appear more genuine as the real BP should they CC, especially with 2nd scum support, or that the real BP doesn't want to CC. Any way, 33% chance of no CC, 67% chance of outing a PR.

Now Chrimi knows that we are in Setup 1 and there is no one to CC.

That's all speculative, and just to point out that there is a scenario. I don't believe that to be the case.

[PenguinPower]

Pretty sure that's L-2.

[PenguinPower]

I think you missed what I was pointing out. It's nothing to do with vote moving on anyone's part. It's that AF makes a big deal about how Chrimi would have been a good N1 target because Chrimi was conf town - but Chrimi didn't claim BP until D2. So that point is false and I think it comes from Scum AF trying to help Scum Chrimi.

Shannon, there is no logical scenario where Chrimi is scum and Tne is town (because of your jailkeeping) - or do you see one I'm missing?

Chrimi/AF nightkill TNE who is protected by the shannon. At that point, scum knows there are three potential setups. 1, C, or 3 since there was an obvious BP or protective role. Chrimi fakeclaims BP knowing that if setup 1, no one can CC and it appears legit to the JK. If setup C, takes the chance that neither PR wants to out themselves to CC on D2, and if they do, Great!. If setup 3, takes the chance that Chrimi could appear more genuine as the real BP should they CC, especially with 2nd scum support, or that the real BP doesn't want to CC. Any way, 33% chance of no CC, 67% chance of outing a PR.

Now Chrimi knows that we are in Setup 1 and there is no one to CC.

That's all speculative, and just to point out that there is a scenario. I don't believe that to be the case.

You stopped making sense fast, god damn.

Scum me claims with a 3/4 chance of suicide? If it's B, a counter claim is one PR for one scum..

with a protective role on the table to save the PR.

First, I said that I didn't think this was the case. Cass asked for an example where it was possible. I provided one.

Second, scum would know B was off the table since there was an obvious protection/BP resulting in no NK. Setup B could not have that happen. (Also, if it's B, there is no protective role on the table. There's only one PR.) It could only be 1, C, or 3.

You aren't really making sense....

[PenguinPower]

If this is MyLo, why are we starting a wagon on someone so early unless you have strong feelings that they are scum? Couldn't scum just hop on the wagon and win?

Labor Day weekend festivities took me away, but I'll catch up and post my thoughts. Until then, please unvote.

[PenguinPower]

So, I don't see much having changed since my last reads were posted. Chrimi is still conf!town to me. I don't think the TNE lynch really gave us much since everyone except Cass was on the wagon. I do have to question whether both scum were on the wagon or if one stayed off to provide some distancing. No evidence there...just a possibility.

AF hasn't done anything to make me change my read on him...still leaning town. Cass still null...I would have gone leantown, but remaining off the TNE wagon, and the quick start of an implosion wagon at the beginning of the day are a bit offputting. Still, unvoted.

I still think implosion and drone as our two scumiest. Implosion has been deflecting for Done as I previously stated, and Drone got onto me about "haunting" implosion. I also don't like implosion trying to muddy the waters on Chrimi...stating that she isn't cleared, but then coming back and stating that he was only mentioning that as an IC and that he thought she was town. Shouldn't you have expressly stated that you were speaking as an IC in that moment? You did state that you would mark any IC posts specifically as IC posts...

[PenguinPower]

Wait what? So according to you we lynched tne for nothing? Are you sure you're still with us?

I voted for TNE because I thought she was scum. What did her flipping town tell you/highlight for you?

Well then if he didn't do anything to change you're reads, what has he done to make you read him town? I don't see it..

You can read my last readlist.

Ouch. This one just... Like... Completely deleted every town read I had on you.
You don't know why we lynched tne, you don't give any meaningful points and your general blabbery about things we've gone over makes me wanna switch my vote. Really bad.

Um...what?

[PenguinPower]

Drone & Cass scumteam, anyways?

No. It's implosion and Drone.

[PenguinPower]

Also read 857 to answer your question. You obviously don't even read.

This?:

Thoughts on tne flip:
We didn't lose a big contributor. But her death contributed to my understanding that were back to square 1 again.

You literally say the exact same thing I said about the flip...

[PenguinPower]

But I really do think cass's play is scummy.

You mention the level of directness in this post causes you to view Cass as scummy, but what else is it?

Absent her start to today and my gut feeling of her being off the wagon (although I later noticed that AF was also not voting at all) I don't see a whole lot of scummy behavior. Though, I have to consider that she's in Jibs slot and I did not like that slot when he was here...but gut says that's more disliking the playstyle.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: implosion

I'm going to put this on implosion for now so my vote is down. This is my best guess right now, but I'll go back and re-read Cass as implosion pointed out her weak questioning, and my already sitting on the fence. My only problem with that is if Cass is scum, who is her partner...I don't think AF is scum, but it could be possible. It obviously cannot be Chrimi. Cass/Drone doesn't make sense to me. It could be Cass/Implosion, but he makes a good point as to why his vote isn't on her yet.

@mod, can we get a prod on AF

AF, I'd like to hear what you have to say about Cass at this point.

[PenguinPower]

You've a contradiction here which is potentially scummy. You say not being on the TNE wagon is scummy. I wasn't on the TNE wagon. And yet I'm still town in your book. Also, I would like you to elaborate on why not wagoning on town is a scummy thing to do.

Firstly, we didn't know she was town at that point. Scum did.

Secondly:
I missed that you weren't voting when I posted that...

(although I later noticed that AF was also not voting at all)

But even on re-read...

Thirdly:
You weren't "supporting" the wagon, yet remaining off of it. 749 792 796 806 vs your 783.

I've found in the games that I've played that, if scum can get enough town on board a mislynch, one is on and one off. Now, that's a small sample size so I'm not saying that it's indicative of anything, but it made my gut feel scum!Cass for a minute.

I'd like your thoughts on Cass now.

[PenguinPower]

I'm going to catch up from the weekend this morning, but I just wanted to call out one of my major frustrations at this point:

and me and my scumbuddy managed to distance from each other very effectively, never really committing to lynching the other one but throwing enough suspicion towards each other that the town was hook,

You realize this is what you are doing with Cass? You keep citing reasons why you lean scum or read scum behavior, but you never vote. You never question, and you never push. Cass promised a long post on you, but never delivers. Instead, most of her posts are about townreading AF and why, even though the behavior she describes as towny for AF is similar to your behavior. Of course, Cass voted you so that's a little different...but it also looks like she's trying to pocket AF.

Leaving my vote where it is right now.

[PenguinPower]

PP, why do you want an implosion lyncH over a Cass one?

I keep questioning my Drone/Cass read...though recently I'm leaning more to Cass. Implosion seems to be constant between the two.

[PenguinPower]

Do you have further reason to individually scumread the two?

Which two?

[PenguinPower]

That post by PP was seriously scummy

Because my read on you changed? You started D3 with a gut scum feel and have gotten scummier, while Drone has remained even. I'm not sure between the two of you, which is why my vote is still on implosion.

Only because I'm convinced you're town, and I don't want to lose us the game. With that unvote there, I'll just stop doubting it. AF = town, Chrimi = town. But you should be even more paranoid, because Chrimi would vote me too and she's town and PP (who has to be scum in that scenario) is readying the hammer.

This is what I'm talking about - I'm going to use some of your wording here - assume for a moment that you are scum, and you know AF is town. You are trying to buddy up to him by declaring how towny he is (forget for a moment that you still haven't adequately described the difference between AF and implosion between "playstyles") in an attempt to get him to sheep you. You're also worried that you may be lynched, so you appeal to his emotion and state how bad it is because conf!town Chrimi would vote you and that scummy PP would hammer for the win - why couldn't Drone be substituted in for me there?

This is what you have been doing D3, and it is why I've started changing my read on you.

Cool stuff, why aren't you voting either of em?

I'm voting implosion...post 895

[PenguinPower]

Let's do this. I still think implosion is scum, but it's increasingly likely Cass is too.

VOTE: Cass

[PenguinPower]

Sure. I'll start working on it now and post if twilight doesn't end too soon.

[PenguinPower]

Honestly by PoE:

I'm town
Chrimi town (I do think this is an assumption worth revisiting if we have time)
Implosion town (by post quality)
Drone not working with Cass (by Day 2 interactions)

Leaving PP

Wait...why could Drone not be working with Cass, yet I could be? Jibs/Cass were a D1 scumread, D2 nullread, D3 lynch for me...

[PenguinPower]

Btw...can we prod the mod? No sign of him since Monday.

[PenguinPower]

Yay! Good game all.

[PenguinPower]

I'm not sure how to access the scum PT, so I have to ask why scum team did not roleblock shannon N1. Did you think her "stickler for the rules" role crumb wasn't serious?

Nothing so intricate. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67835

This is my first scum game from start to finish (I replaced into a slot and won, mostly because my scum buddy was universally town read). I'd appreciate any feedback as to how I played. I come from a completely different forum mafia background, so I'm trying to find my playstyle.