Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[Aunt Jemina]

Vote: Aunt Jemima

Can I count on you to be town this game?

VOTE: PeregrineV.

Though I am in fact town, you are not. You are pulling the same opener as last game and expecting me to townread you for it. You are also far more active early-on than the sweet-Grinny I am used to seeing.

[Aunt Jemina]

It's amazing how far one can go in the RVS with people 'randomly' not managing to place a second vote on a given player.

You could have fixed this, deary, by voting one of the players already voted at that point in time.

That's an antitown decision

Not really, I think pushing a wagon on the over reacting dude will give us more info no?

You say without placing your vote. You also delayed your OMGUS vote on BulbyFenny.

Forgetting to vote?

Pappy is sweet for noticing this point before I did.

also Yates/Nero is obv town on town

I would not assume that. Nero is town, but Yates is more debatable.

VOTE: ZZZX.
Though I still believe Grinny to be sour.

I don't really like the late rvs votes, primarily from pidgey and pv.

Pv's is worse since its on an existing sort-of-wagon.

vote: pv

Thaddy is also sweet.

[Aunt Jemina]

Pardon me if my posting is not coherent. I have tasks that I am attending to as I work here. (I may also not be sober. )

Further, you have intimate knowledge of my scum game. If you're Town, use it.

That is why towreading you is of questionable wisdom, deary. A town you is no moron, and evidence of derp play is evidence of a scum PM. However, you are correct that I need to refresh my knowledge on the specifics of your scumplay.

Let me explain a few things.


First off I am not a newb. I did about 10 mafia games total with a nice win rate


Anyway a question pops up. Why am I doing those silly mistakes?


Its clearly a reaction test. I find that my wagon got fast and without a reason mainly. I also find A's defense really lazy. The I just sheeped answer is a risky and useless answer to use. So some town points for you. But I still find that vote weird.


Out of all who voted Mr I found less than half writing reasons that are just being overlooked. I guess scum always goes for middle seats in a wagon.


Anyway @people calling me scared for vla my high-school's results were being published so I had some personal issues

Currently on phone. I will make a general reads as soon as I go to my PC.

^ town

Perhaps. Pulling the 'reaction test' card in general I see as being butterscotch, especially if done on oneself. You are correct that it is more likely to be from town given the tone, but I do not share your certainty.

^^^^
that's the town Pid that I'm familiar with

Indeed it is.

Last one I remember I was town and town-read you, and you flipped it.

My point precisely. You are expecting me to townread you for playing the same way you did as town last game.

VOTE: PeregrineV.

Can you link to said game?

My last completed game was Aircraft Madness.

Something that is REALLY bothering me is Aunt J. She calls out PV for his entrance, PV comes into the thread again and ignores her, and she just acts like it hasn't happened in the next post. It's bizarre behaviour - surely if you were calling someone out in the manner which she did PV, you expect some kind of response, and flip your shit when you're ignored?

ZZZX might be scum, that reaction test was bullshit and he's trying to force things like "nice win rate" down our throats to make himself look good. But on the otherside of the spectrum, it could just be derptown. :/

You have your answer for why I did not pursue him further. Grinny I was waiting for a reply for, thus, I pursued Zexxy.

The joke will be on them in 2015 when I finally reveal...I'M A MAN!

This much is obvious.

dear god I'm actually going to have to make an EFFORT this game, aren't I?

Perhaps not once Easter has passed, as I will be putting in effort myself then.

HE'S WRONG AS SHIT BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIM SCUM

My experience of him differs, in that him being "wrong as shit" is

precisely

what makes him scum.

Are there some people here who have played with him before?
It really looks like he's flying under the radar here compared to his more active play in other games.

I am familiar enough with his games (he is not familiar with me, however) to tell you this is in fact mildly (but not definitively) indicative of his alignment being sour rather than sweet.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pisgey

I like rufflig's case on pidgey plus pidgeys reaction lately makes pidgey look scummy to me.

This looks opportunistic as fuck to me.

-Fenix

The vote I had an issue with was not this one, but displaced's vote.

im sheeping this wagon because it is better than anything i have come up with

VOTE: pidgey

Do share what you had come up with before this, for there is nothing good on the pidgey wagon.

[Aunt Jemina]

Yeah this post from Yates looks really town. He's confident, combative and thinking hard about the game. Obviously, he could be very good scum, but no way is he a Day 1 lynch.

Whoever made the point abut ZZx and smilies, I agree. It's obviously not a "cast iron tell", but he did look nervous. Could just be his playstyle, ut he has to be on the lynch pile for today.
I'm having a hard following some of Josh B's posts (what is "plox"?). But no strong read on him.
Wasn't that keen on Squirrell Girl's vote for me. But I think she was just on the wrong track rather than scummy. The way she is arguing with Yates - defending herself strongly without seeming paranoid/over defensive is quite hard to fake as scum. Prob. town.

Nero probably town - he is certainly different from "Always Sunny", where he was much more "GO-GO LYNCH!". Don't really agree with him about Yates, but he looks like he is thinking about the game.

I dunno i have no reads yet nero seems town for now.

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

vote: Displaced

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

These statements dont really tally

This looks a bit like bollocks to me. Those statements clearly do tally. He was accusing you of "throwing some dirt and seeing if it will stick" -but without really committing to a read. (You didn't say "Moz is scum").
Pos. scum.

Not really sure about Pidgey. He seems to be accusing Squirrel of buddying without explicitly saying so. Clairifucation would be good. Null.

Up to page 8.

I'm letting you know here that if your quality of play drops after D1, I'm lynching you for being scum. (In-joke; mozzy is a townread.)

VOTE: Josh_B.

Right, Yates last post about Rufflig makes him look very town to me. It's completely logical, doesn't seem to misrep or exaggarare or obfuscate in anyway, and seems completely open and transparent. If he is scum, then he is very, very good. But seems unlikely as hell.
Rufflig, I care about the argument and dislike the fact that you seem to be trying to shut it down. Also, why would you give up on trying to get your two best scum reads lynched this early in the game? Also, I think I understand why you think Pidgey is scum. But your scum read on Chandra seems pretty much just OMGUS, please explain.

He is very, very good, but not in this way. I am indeed inclined to believe this is a town Yates. However, I do not believe he is correct about fliggy. To me, fliggy seems to be attempting to create discussion, but to be the one directing it. I see that as being town who does not understand that they are not the largest fish in this pond, not as scum.

Why the fuck did someone shoot aronis now.
There were so many better targets.

This is indicative of an anti-town ability that is hoping to masquerade as town later by not shooting obvtown.

I realize that my reads may not be exactly clear. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor energy to create a reads list, however, I will answer what my read on a specific player is and why on request. (Mainly townreads of various strength.) However, three reads that I feel the need to comment on: I feel as if there is precisely one scum between Ragey, Vezzy, and Grinny. If I were to guess right now, it would be Grinny.

[Aunt Jemina]

My apologies. I was under the impression I had posted Tuesday. I am a ways back and shall catch up this evening.

[Aunt Jemina]

I have Ruffling as town now.

I don't know how this is possible.

Quite easily, deary. All it takes is looking at the reasoning he is using to understand that it is not coming from scum. He is as sweet as can be. His posting may not be entirely correct, but it is strong and shows clarity.

You forgot Joshy B. You know, the one you're voting.

An explanation will need to wait until after I have gotten caught up. However, the basic is that Joshy has shown trends that I strongly associate with coming from a sour player of somewhat-low experience.

Rufflig/pidgey, knock it off.

this whole shitstorm reeks of town v. town

Agreed.

FoS: Yates.

Call it old lady's instinct for the time being.

If SqG is on

one of the Mafia teams

, do you think the "Pidgey scum hunting right out of the gate" comment was an indicator that Pidgey's displaced vote was spot on.

Quick Quesiton for anyone that cares to answer. Has multiball been confirmed?

Because if not we're powerlynching the fuck out of Josh_B right now.

Why would think anything different? Hasn't it already been stated that multiball is part of Jason's meta.

I could start FoSing Team2 right now if you want, but they seem to be interested in rooting out Team1.

With so many players in this game, and only getting one lynch per day, I think I'll stick with where I'm at.

I strongly believe this is claiming scum.

[Aunt Jemina]

still haven't seen a lynch candidate that rivals beastcharizard...

It is tempting, yes. However, Joshy's post doesn't look like town speculating on there being two scumteams. It appears as him accidentally revealing he is on a scumteam and is hunting another.

[Aunt Jemina]

In my opinion, this will be worth revisiting if the game is actually multiball, but lynching for it Day 1 would be stupid when waiting has a chance of rendering it moot.

Fair point, but it does look like scum.

got some bad vibes about AJ and UN for pushing JOshb's multiball specs as scummy, since a game this size is gonna be multiball most of the time.

Completely agree with this. Also, the "too much info" slip doesn't really make sense in this case, since scum won't have any info on the possbility of another scum team. So even if Josh is scum, he can't make that slip, since he can't know anyway.

It is not the action. It was the wording he had for it. Others have mentioned multiball, but his posting appears to be a scumslip of him thinking as scum in multiball.

VOTE: Yates.

Regardless of Joshy's alignment and regardless of multiball or not, I believe Yates is sour.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am unfortunately feeling slightly out of the game right now. The consistent walling is sapping my will to read, and I am glazing over far too many details.

Angel is a sweetie, though. There's not a hint of bitterness about her.

[Aunt Jemina]

@Aunt Jemina:

Regardless of Joshy's alignment

Have you changed your mind on Josh_B? If not, I left you a question in Post 841. I'm not looking for detailed proof or anything. Just your thoughts.

It has not. However, I am even less inclined to read link spam as I am quote spam. I simply did not bother reading.

Kitty's slot was already sweet, but her entrance has solidified it. Most of her thoughts align with my own, especially at that time.

Regardless of Joshy's alignment and regardless of multiball or not, I believe Yates is sour.

Why? What leads you to this "belief?"

It is as you said: intimate knowledge of your scumplay and decent exposure to your townplay.

Your posting this game is not akin to 2.5 men banged your mother. It is much closer to (among others) You Could Be Anyone. I am not seeing the town thoughts. I am seeing thoughts that do a good job of looking town without being town.

[Aunt Jemina]

VOTE: Kid A
Something about his votes and lacks of posts bothers me. This is an angle I want to approach at the moment. I'm fully caught up with the current posts.

I can tell you with some safe degree of accuracy that this is a towntell from Kiddy, deary.

Weird read transition on Yates, she's all warming him up as a scumread from the get go yet in #636 has him as town, then back to a scumread again in her next content post, #804.

My 'townread' was an inclination; I saw a trait I associated more from a town him than a scum him. However, my read on the slot I never let go stale; it is consistently being re-cooked. And right now, off of what I have seen, I have a decently-strong sour read against him.

People keep voting for not-ruffles

Why are they voting for not-ruffles

Because fliggy is a sweet-read of mine. I feel like he is pursuing the wrong names, but that his heart is in the right place; his posting does not read as scum-motivated.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hey AJ, How are you doing love

Quite lovely, deary.

Like literally in post 635 you are calling him scum and in post 636 you are calling him town.

No, I point out my caution and what I look for from him being sour.

Lean Town:

14 ZZZX - his frustration at feeling ignored felt rather genuine so I've stuck him here for now.
15 Viomi <--I really like the entry into the game

To sort (Nulls):

2 The Rufflig
5 Nero Cain <---Nero's said a lot but even after reading i remember little of it. TO sort, then!
8 Kid A
12 UniversalSlutBus (Alexcellent/JKMatthews hydra)

17 ThAdmiral
22 beastcharizard
24 Chandra Nalaar
25 displaced*

Lean Scum:

11 PeregrineV - This is partly because we're townreading Aunt J and apparently, she's rather good at reading Grinny, but I don't like his push on us right now.

Scum:

4 vezokpiraka <--hops on my wagon with a flimsy line parroting bulba, when he's literally NEVER played with me.

I would very much like an explanation on the Zexxy and Vimmy reads.

I can tell you with near-100% certainty that this is a town Nero. Fliggy and Kiddy are also both sweet-reads. Thaddy is another one. Grinny is in fact a concern, but I am not scumreading him at the moment; I am focusing more on vezzy.

Also, why is there a division in your nulls?

[Aunt Jemina]

It should be noted that while I ultimately agree on the Zexxy read and may agree with the Vimmy one, I still wish to see the thought behind it.

[Aunt Jemina]

@AJ: what the fuck? You say you are focusing on me in the last post and you didn't even mention mr before. What's up with that.

I have focused on you, deary. I feel like there is a scum player between you, Ragey, and Grinny, but that there would be no more than one. You have been where I have been looking.

What do you make of his (vezok's) positional shift on my meta coming from a game we never co-existed in, and citing that as his "doesn't feel like town cabd " statement?

Potentially sour.

It should be noted that your posting is a mixed bag and I am waffling. Posts like this give me a sour feeling, but your reads list and some other elements of your posting give me sweet feelings.

Yo pidgey, the English language fascinates me.

It is not pidgey's native tongue, deary. It likely frustrates him.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am considering Grinny being scum again, but I am once more uncertain.

[Aunt Jemina]

@AJ:
Is there any way you can explain the Kid A thing a little bit more? I think you are town, so i'll trust you on the read more if you can give me something to back it up.

I am currently short on time and explaining will take more time than I possess at this moment, but yes, I can. Remind me about it if I do not get back to you.

Man this back and forth by josh and Zzzx.

Though mostly null, it is not entirely pointless. Zexxy looks slightly more sweet and Joshy slightly more sour as a result of the exchange.

Not properly caught up. But yeah, we need to get a move on.The Yates wagon is a joke, he is so likely town. Shame he has replaced out. UN I am null on. Rufflig looked really town to me early on. But her contributions have tailed off a bit, and her Viomi vote looked really random, particularly this late in the Day.
So I'm not entirely happy about it, and I'll switch wagons to UN if need be, but we need a lynch.

VOTE RUFFLING

I am not certain of the neighbors. (I apologize. Plural nicknames are harder than singular.) Yates may be sour, but another option is also Joshy. I would prefer not fliggy, as fliggy remains a sweet-read of mine.

^^^^
this dies before lylo

If ragey lived even close to lylo, that itself would be a warning sign, deary.

[Aunt Jemina]

Do you think Yates is town?

Having thought on it overnight, I am of the firm belief his slot is sweet.

I still say Josh_B is hard scum.

Given the confirmation of multiball, I am in agreement.

Attempts to save him are therefore heavily suspect.

It should be noted about moderator meta that the daykiller is almost certainly a vigilante. Kill flavors are consistent for factions, thus the Squirly and Thaddy kills come from sources different from the Sonny slot's shots. It should also be noted that Jason has a heavy tendency to favor asymmetric scumteams: a larger 4p scumteam that is weaker vs. a smaller 3p scumteam that is stronger. Given the flips have been Marvel Villains and the flavor is invaders from a universe outside of Marvel, and also given that both flipped Marvel Villains have been power roles, it is an assurance that the Marvel Villains are a scumteam of three (down to one), against a scumteam of four that has yet to be identified.

It is also possible that we have a serial killer in addition to the vigilante, and that there was a kill not listed last night that failed.

Because I know he's scum. If that freaks you out you can move to Josh, I'd be pretty happy with that lynch too.

I don't think Josh is scum.

And I think you sour for it.

Also, what the hell is with that mafia kill? They must be terrified of docs or something o.o

If Thaddy was nightkilled by mafia, then it points to Joshy being scum given Thaddy's primary suspect. If Squirly was nightkilled by mafia, then...it still points to Joshy being scum given that he was among Squirly's primary suspects. It is safe to say Joshy is not a member of the Marvel Villains scumteam. However, he is my number one suspect for being a member of the other scumteam.

Viomi, I like your personality, but moving vote from josh to Chandra is just a very, very bad move.

Thus why Vimmy is sweet, and attempts to paint him as sour are bad. (It may have been anti-town, but it is not an anti-town move an actual scum player would make. That move had sweetness written all over it.) Vezzy's attempt in particular rubbed me the wrong way.

if you are a protective role (doctor, jailkeeper etc) please defend me tonight!

If you expect a guardian angel to be watching over you, Sonny, then you need to not let yourself be so easily influenced to shoot obvious town players like Kiddy.

Speaking of which, I found BulbyFenny's approach to this whole matter highly suspect. They basically bullied Sonny into shooting Kiddy, when Sonny's first instinct was to shoot Joshy. Additionally, they have painted Vinny as being sour. They have committed just about every suspicious act I look for in a multiball game, including their buddying up to Squirly who ended up dead last night.

VOTE: BulbaFenix.

[Aunt Jemina]

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

Fine. Talking with Bulba now. Shoot KidA. NOW! Shoot him, NOW! The reason why Bulba says so is because we're looking over the SG and Ruffles ISO, and SG overlooked something that she should not have as town.

~Fenix

In particular, look at this.

Read Sonny's posts earlier. His strong instinct was to shoot at Joshy. Other players asked him not to shoot. Kitty actually did a pro-town take on it and asked him to not shoot

yet

, but that he should shoot. Some were interested in turning it into a double-day mechanic.

BulbyFenny bullied Sonny into shooting a player who was obviously town immediately, wasting the opportunities and assuring that Joshy could not so easily be killed. He removed all chances for productive usage of the mechanic, insisting on hipshooting from Sonny. That type of bullying I do not see coming from a town BulbyFenny. Perhaps one head being impulsive I could see. Both heads when they are not typically irrational players, I cannot. They did not hesitate to direct Sonny to kill Kiddy.

And there is additionally this gem.

Nero scumhunting for only 1 team worries me.

-Bulba

A fact that he himself is guilty of by only hunting for partners of Squirly and Fliggy.

BulbyFenny is sour, and scum with Joshy. Who the other two are, I am not as certain. I am still thinking Grinny is sour, but not absolutely. Vezzy

could

be sour, but I am not positive. But this is a fine start for the day.

[Aunt Jemina]

Sweet as can be:

5 Nero Cain

--Nero has had a strong pro-town presence throughout the whole game. He has not been scumhunting for a specific faction, and has been strongly within his town meta. I am intimately familiar with him, and I know that his play here is sweet.

9 Metal Sonic

--Sonny's slot has been highly town. Though "hipshooting" town targets, the thought process behind the shots has been remarkably town-oriented. He has not been shooting as scum, nor has he been shooting like a serial killer. He's been open and fairly transparent about precisely what he did and why, and thus, is town.

16 mozamis

--aside from Nero, Mozzy is my strongest sweet-read off of play alone. His thought process is transparent and solidly pro-town with how he pushes things and reasons them through.

19 Malakittens

--Kitty's posting has been largely in-tune with my own thoughts. Though I suppose she could theoretically be sour, I see her posting and cannot think of it as anything other than sweet, with how she has handled the game.

1 TheWayItEnds

--I read about Yates overnight, and am thoroughly convinced that Endy's slot is not sour. This goes beyond not being a Marvel Villain, which interactions will inform you of. I did some fact-checking and this was in fact what I believe to be his townplay.

15 Viomi

--Though his play has been heavily bittersweet and easily can be called anti-town, do not pretend that lynching him is a scum lynch. If he were to die, it would be on policy and nothing more. Look at the drive behind his actions and think if they make sense coming from a scum player; they do not. Vimmy is sweet, albeit bitter.

Sweetreads:

20 ArcAngel9

--Oh, Angel, my deary. She is an open book to read when she is around, but lurking does not do her favors. I have been watching her and will proudly bump her up once she is around stronger than she is right now.

14 ZZZX

--Zexxy's posting may not seem town, and you would be correct in assuming that it is fairly low-key. However, in spite of that, when you read what is there, you can see a clear train of thought that does not come from a sour player. Though he is perhaps a bit bittersweet, he is no sour player in that his posting clearly lacks a scum agenda.

21 pidgey

--pidgey's certainly not a Marvel Villain, but is not cleared entirely from being sour. I strongly feel he is sweet with his overall posting, however, I am not yet absolutely sure of it.

25 displaced

--I will admit that my read here is based mainly off of this old lady's instincts. (Gut.)

Waffles:

13 Umbrage

--there are times where his posting has seemed amazingly sweet, and there are other times where his posting has sent a deep chill down my spine, making me think sour. If I were to make a snap-decision, I would ultimately conclude sweet, but this read needs time to ferment.

22 beastcharizard

--Though beasty has been posting plenty, I honestly cannot remember most of it. I cannot pin him down. Like Ragey, a snap decision would be sweet, but I am not ready to make that call.

24 Chandra Nalaar

--Though I do not know what to make of their posting, for some reason, this old lady's instincts are saying that if push came to shove, I would sweet-read them.

12 UniversalSlutBus** (Alexcellent/JKMatthews hydra)

--I simply do not know what to make of their posting.

Rotten to the core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)

--refer to my BulbyFenny case. Their posting put up a good act, but I am positive that they are members of the unflipped scum faction.

7 Josh_B

--as above, Joshy's posting has been heavily sour this whole time, with a focus on multiball well before reason. Certainly not sour with the Marvel Villains, but a strong sour-read all the same.

11 PeregrineV

--this one will take a bit more extensive reasoning, but the basic is that I feel Grinny this game is a member of the same unflipped scum faction. His interactions point that way, and this simply has not been his townplay.

Sour Reads:

23 UnfriendlyNeighbors (Mac/Cabd Hydra)

--this is admittedly a bit of a weaker read, based mainly off of this old lady's instinct. I would not know which faction of scum they could belong to. It could be either, or it could even be serial killer, but I feel as if they are not town. I simply do not know how.

4 vezokpiraka

--I am decently familiar with Vezzy's townplay. This game does not seem like it at all. His posting has been sour, and I simply have not been able to get inside his mind to see some sweetness. As above, I do not know what sort of scumbag he would be, although I have a slight lean against him being a member of the unflipped scumteam off of interactions.


I realize these reads will not hold perfect accuracy, but they are a very good place to begin.

[Aunt Jemina]

The answer you are looking for, Grinny, can be found in the fact that I am also scumreading your slot and think you sour with Joshy.

[Aunt Jemina]

Aunt J, you're nice and all and I think you're probably town, but I don't agree with your reads at all :/

Well, deary. That is a problem on your end, not mine.

[Aunt Jemina]

Also I don't agree with him bullying MS like at all.

Then read these.

Spoiler: Bullying Sonny

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

I'm going to tell you this, if you shoot A-N-Y-O-N-E!! You better shoot ZZX or KidA.

~Fenix

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

Fine. Talking with Bulba now.

Shoot KidA. NOW!

Shoot him,

NOW

!

The reason why Bulba says so is because we're looking over the SG and Ruffles ISO, and SG overlooked something that she should not have as town.

~Fenix

(Emphasis added.)

I love double day action it makes me want to hip shoot someone right now



Let's not be rash


I don't think Pv is scum because that would mean he would be scum in all the games is play with him

Fine. Talking with Bulba now. Shoot KidA. NOW! Shoot him, NOW! The reason why Bulba says so is because we're looking over the SG and Ruffles ISO, and SG overlooked something that she should not have as town.

~Fenix

Now????

Can I do it later

i got the worst marvel character does anyone want to trade

i got wolverine can i just say that im someone else

from now on im paste pot pete

going to hammer if nobody objects

Metal Sonic. Shoot. Kid A. Now.

Emphasis to the Sonny post added, where Sonny was hesitant...and BulbyFenny pushed him further.

Additionally, not a single word was spoken about Kiddy having flipped town after that. BulbyFenny just kept pushing Vinny and Zexxy as if nothing had changed. Oh, pardon me. There was one spot.

I asked MS to shoot Kid A. I thought I saw clear associative signs that he was the last Marvel scum, but I was clearly wrong. Regardless, it was a good shot and rid the town of a useless slot and potential liability.

Vote ZZZX

-Bulba

This is not a town reaction to seeing someone flip town which you just pushed through in spite of other players saying not to. It is providing an excuse and a justification, while moving on without a second of thought to understand the implication of Kiddy's town flip.

[Aunt Jemina]

I would additionally note that the very things BulbyFenny used as evidence for Kiddy being sour were some of the proof that he was sweet, among them being that an actual Marvel Villain would not claim to be a Marvel Villain, claiming Wolverine early unprompted, and not hammering when hammering could have given towncred and there were others to do the deed.

[Aunt Jemina]

I feel that Ragey's 1610 was hilariously off-mark, but that the thought behind it was sweet all the same.

I ignored your comment earlier about the argument between me a ZZZX, but can you tell me why you thought it made me look more like scum and ZZZX more townie.

I cannot remember that argument, thus, cannot comment on it at this precise moment. I am confident I would have an answer if I looked, but will not have the time to do so until later.

However, my general feeling has been that Zexxy's not scumhunting a specific faction, but

is

scumhunting. His posting is subtle, but almost certainly sweet all the same underneath it. Reading him requires not thinking about any individual post (because he has too few with too little content in each to be an accurate judge), but at the whole and the deep drive behind him. And that I see as sweet.

But there are 2 scum teams. So there cannot be a sk. Usually it is only 1 scum team and 1 sk, or just 2 scum teams

Jason's last game had two scumteams, a vig, and a serial killer. It is not impossible he did the same this game. Quite the opposite, it is incredibly probable. There are certainly two scumteams, so the existence of a serial killer is not a given, but it is still something more likely than unlikely.

Can someone make a town case on that?

Unfortunately not at this time. A case takes time to compile that I lack. But this is one of those things that I am reasonably certain of. Zexxy will flip town the same way Kiddy did. Especially since the 'case' against Zexxy is being pushed by the same player who pushed the Kiddy one.

@aunt jeanina: you claim to have played a lot games with me and then say this isn't my town game.

Not precisely. But yes, I am familiar with your townplay. I am not seeing it. When you have been town in the past, I have generally been able to understand where you come from. This game, I have not.

[Aunt Jemina]

Aunt J, could you expound on your meta things?

Past experience has taught me the answer is no, I cannot. That will not stop me from attempting to, but do not expect me to succeed; this would be the first time I have.

Trust me, it is far more inconvenient for me than it is for you. I am not overly fond of saying that you must simply trust me, yet that is precisely what I have to say.

[Aunt Jemina]

I did not say I would not. Merely that it has proven difficult to explain previously. If I knew which specific meta-read you wished me to focus on, that may help. (Meta plays a strong part in my Yates, Grinny, and Vezzy reads, but also is present in my Nero, mozzy, and Angel reads among others.)

[Aunt Jemina]

I meant Vezok. Though if you wanted to talk about PV as well, I wouldn't complain.

Grinny is more difficult. But Vezzy, most recently is Left 4 Dead. In there, he was active and posting often, with his thoughts clearly stated in each post. It was similar to how I was able to read Kiddy this game, and also my read on Zexxy. Micro 312 has this same tendency. He posted often with clear articulation of his thoughts. Mean Girls Mafia perhaps is one of the strongest examples recently, with very clear thoughts and being incredibly proactive. This game he has been much more opaque and his posting less frequent. He is also more defensive.

If it were a clear-cut case, my vote would be on Vezzy rather than on BulbyFenny. But it is reason for concern all the same, for I am not used to seeing Vezzy's thoughts go so much against mine. Though in fairness, I must say that I did agree with this.

Metal sonic and ZZZX are both giving me good vibes. That back and worth seemed pretty townish.

Because it lines up with my own thinking.

also thats why zzzx is town

he's pretty darn transparent

Indeed. Thus, why those pushing him as sour are also suspect.

Umbrage, explain your Viomi townread to me, if you would?

I see absolutely nothing to indicate that she's scum, I just see a townie frustrated with having to deal with Metal Sonic doing fake daykills and other bullshit.

My feelings are similar.

i think they are very cool players because i played with them before and they are very exciting and trustable

Very cool players, no doubt. Exciting, certainly. Trustworthy?

Kid A was, Wolverine Vanilla Town Stabbed in the back day 2

That is what trusting them will produce.

And you don't think scum is capable of killing people to set up a lynch?

Capable of, certainly. Would actually waste a valuable nightkill on, in a multiball game no less? No; scum are going to kill inconveniences to them.

Yes, I pushed MS into shooting Kid A, because he had claimed wanting to be a villain, and Squirrel Girl, who had just been BSing with Rufflig and showing off her Marvel knowledge moments before, didn't even blink. Couple that with a fake looking early claim in Kid A's first post, and what looked like a grab for towncred with a late Rufflig hammer, and I felt confident that I had found the last Marvel scum member, and I was anxious to get rid of a NK.

You're describing this to try and make it look like it is a town thought pattern, but I cannot see this train of thought as coming from anything other than scum.

Finally, where in the world do you get that we were buddying Squirrel Girl?

It is

possible

I am not recalling correctly (this old lady has memory issues), but I firmly remember a BulbyFenny-Squirly exchange on the first day that felt this way.

You definitely need to reevaluate your reads.

Re-evaluating my reads is precisely why you are in my rotten to the core list, deary. You may recall a townread on your slot D1, which I handed out prematurely.

Actually, you probably need to reevaluate your entire approach to this game.

Quite correct, my initial approach to the game was not focused on multiball. However, I am progressively getting more into that mindset.

Also, Fenix wants me to tell you that we're switching to Log Cabin for our breakfast pancakes and french toast from now on. Whatever that means...

It means that he hates Aunt Jemima syrup, now.

I'd actually rather have that NK in the game right now, since it should probably be shooting for the other scumgroup at this point.

Though I agree with this sentiment, I have been down this road many times before: save the theory debate for post-game or mafia discussion. We hunt scum for being scum. We might think them to be a specific faction, but we should not be hunting

for

a specific faction.

It should be noted that BulbyFenny is also slightly on my meta list, in that BulbyFenny fooling me is not to be unexpected on D1, especially given multiball, but now that I know it is multiball and that BulbyFenny is approaching this game like multiball, it paints their posting (in particular, Bulby's) in a different light. I am quite aware of their skill in that environment, and looking town while furthering their scum faction's wincon is something they are frighteningly good at doing.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hey BulbaF
I noticed that you answered people questions about the reasoning for killing KidA which is fine and all except for the part where I dont give a fuck about that.

Could you now expound on the more important part and answer why you insisted several times that Sonic should shoot "now"?
I'm assuming you didnt notice when I suggested that you do this before, rather than ignored it.

On a seperate note:
That viomi wagon looks pretty fucking awful.

I agree with everything here, as it is my own thinking. If Endy was not already in my sweet list, he would be for this alone.

BulbyFenny is sour. Vinny is sweet, and Grinny's likely sour.

Viomi is a shit lynch that gives us no information. She thought she was dead and threw a fit. I've done it countless times as town. Quit gawking at the drama and get back to actually scumhunting. For fuck's sake, why is NOBODY ELSE looking at the Rufflig lynch? There was likely bussing on that wagon early on. There was likely opposing scum/SK on it closer to lynch. And you guys are fucking around with someone who did fuck-all D1? Come on. We have a plethora of information and what happens? A dick measuring contest between Sonic and ZZZX. It's getting fucking painful to read this thread.

I feel Ragey is likely sweet for this, because it strongly indicates a mindset not yet recovered from the reveal of multiball, in that he is still thinking partially in terms of a single-faction game.

C'mon guys. I want answers or I will be forced to conclude that your "Nk analysis" is fake.

I read ThAd's ISO, there was significant suspicion of you (and also JoshB as it happens) but I think you are more likely to be calling the shots than Josh

OK. Let's see what AuntJ has to say.

I answered already. Analysis showing you to be the one nightkilling Thaddy and analysis showing Joshy to be the one nightkilling Thaddy are not mutually exclusive.

This also doesn't explain the difference in reactions in joshb and viomi, despite both being subject to a similar dayvig gambit and both claiming to be upset

Oh, but it does. Vinny reacted in a town manner. Joshy reacted in a scum manner. Vinny's sweet, Joshy's sour. I am betting my life on it.

[Aunt Jemina]

I find this answer to be very non-answery.

But it does answer. I came up with a theory that Thaddy being nightkilled was something likely to come from Joshy as scum. Another theory surfaced about the Thaddy kill pointing to you. Who I am also sour-reading as being Joshy's buddy. Thus the two perspectives augment one another. Not contradict.

I get a weird feeling from AJ.

Also, just because reads line up doesn't mean someone is town. You have to keep in mind that scum KNOW who isn't on their team so it is very easy to fake town reads on people when you absolutely know they are town.

It is quite the rarity to see a post where I am quite fond of the first half and absolutely despise the second half. I am considering beasty being sour, but I am not sure. (Wasn't beasty a potential leading wagon throughout a significant majority of D1? If so, this may explain a fair amount of play, but I need to fact-check that.)

However, to address the argument: while it is true that reads lining up is not necessarily indicative of alignment, it is often an indicator that the players in question are thinking about the same things and come from the same place. Even in multiball, this 'tell' still applies, because even scum will have scumbuddies they want to protect, where thinking will diverge.

Dear aunt Jemina do you have any comments on this either?

I did not, nor can I. Though I have a fairly decent accuracy, I do not hold all the answers. If I did, I would be demanding players sheep me much more loudly than I am, but sadly, I do not. I can merely speculate, since I do not have a perfect understanding of Vinny as a player.

The best answers I have are that Vinny made the decision to replace out because of a stupid gambit (and did not give reads out of either redundancy or spite), but when the thought process behind the gambit was shown (i.e., the shot was real and Vinny simply wasn't the target), Vinny reconsidered.

AJ looks pretty town to me, most of her reads are lining up with mine, apart from JoshB, who I still think looks like confused town.

Then how about proving it by voting with me, deary?

I. Am. Not. Reading. This. Shit.

So skip it. The exchange served a point, as it

did

help certain players obtain reads on Zexxy, thus, was productive to them, even if not productive to yourself. If it happens again, you may have an argument, but all signs point to that having been a one-time thing that will not reappear. Move on, ignore it, and get back to actual scumhunting. You talk a fair amount of sense when trying to.

[Aunt Jemina]

Bulba is "I would fakeclaim masons with him/fake a cop inno on him" level of town. And I'm pretty damn sure he feels the same, which is nice, it's great coming into a game with a strong townread for day two, with two scum down.

Prepare for some heartbreak, deary, assuming you are town.

Right now my vote is probably being directed to ZZZX, universal's slot, and i got some bad vibes from PV on the last game day when he voted me. But want to do a catch up before throwing a vote.

Grinny is the only one among them I realistically see as flipping scum.

That post had no content to be found.

It has. Also how does my typing something that isnt totally scum hunting just after my V/LA post replying to someone scummy? lol

Umb's Vote on me was for town. Your vote was scummy as fuck. I might as well vote you for your vote. Its not just an OMGUS it has a reason and I think It might be right

Those scumreading Zexxy should take a firm look at this. He is entirely correct. Ragey's posting (while wrong) was town-motivated. Beasty's vote on Zexxy was most certainly not; it was opportunism at its finest. And Zexxy describes this concept here quite well.

I've seen beast play town, and he tends to go after less easy/omgusy targets, and has more different/against the grain reads if I recall correctly. I also just don't think his posts are genuine, as meaningless a statement as that may be. Also, I still take the issues I did yesterday, and I didn't buy voting me as a reaction.

I also think Vezok is scum. Even when he pushes things, his pushes don't have any real conviction. I was gonna drag up some quotes for this, but I got bored.

All fine points, and among my thinking.

I think I'm looking at a lynch pool of {vezok, PV, USBslot, beast} right now. I should flip through those players again.

There is an absolute minimum of five scum left in the game right now, with the possibility of six. (One Marvel Villain, a serial killer, and four of the unidentified faction.) So even if your list is correct, you need one more, and I would heavily recommend a second.

Aside from Rach's slot, I do like all of your sourreads, because I have similar feelings about vezzy, Grinny, and beasty. However, as noted, I feel as if you need more names in there.

You mentioned BulbyFenny being possible scum in your townbloc and I would urge you strongly to consider this more, as I firmly believe that they are playing to a scum game. In fact, they are what I consider to be at this time my strongest scumread. (I am not fond of Joshy's presence in your townreads, but I will let that one slide for the time being.)

When I said that I disagreed with you its not that I didn't know what you were talking about. Its just that MS is responsible for his own actions.

Nero, deary, I realize you are an independent man who thinks for himself and thus, would not be prone to suggestion from others, but surely you can put yourself into the mind of a player who is not as strong-willed as yourself.

If you were to be a player who has notable self-esteem issues and is easily lost, then you would be more easily influenced. Now imagine someone who is strongly and consistently pushing a player fitting that mold. Sonny lacks conviction, but posted his thoughts. BulbyFenny saw weakness in his posting and exploited it, by pushing hard and consistently for him to do a very specific thing. I do not know your upbringing, nor was mine such that I encountered that dynamic. But that is most definitely something that would be considered bullying if done in a school environment.

Just substitute something such as handling drugs (or whatever a bully would ask the bullied kid to do) for hipshooting. Yes, it is true that Sonny controlled the bullet. But he was pressured all the same into having used the bullet in a specific manner by BulbyFenny.

[Aunt Jemina]

Right now my vote is probably being directed to ZZZX, universal's slot, and i got some bad vibes from PV on the last game day when he voted me. But want to do a catch up before throwing a vote.

Grinny is the only one among them I realistically see as flipping scum.

You actually think USB is town now? I thought you had them at null but I could be remembering wrong and I'm not checking.

No, still a fairly null read. I meant what I said: though it's possible the slot is sour, realistically, I simply do not see them flipping scum.

OH WAIT BEAST WAGON IS HAPPENING?

VOTE: beastcharizard

I AM DOWN WITH THIS

If Grinny is not who my vote will move to, then beasty is. Joshy I would also like lynched even though I see it as unlikely, and BulbyFenny even more so in that I fully acknowledge my vote there is out of vanity and will not successfully result in a lynch.

[Aunt Jemina]

I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

Though admittedly not a solid one, this is in fact a minor scumtell of Bulby.

Metal- tool
Bulba could be scum
displaced could be scum
PV- null

I already liked your slot before, but now I know; I love you.

Viomi is so scum. That town posturing is incredibly forced.

It really does hurt :/

I expected you to have anything to say about the fact that I just expressed a willingness to lynch you, which is not a terribly popular opinion.

I'd love to see this Beast wagon take off, this is something that needs to happen. I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

I'm thinking you are just dumb.
I pushed for ruffling since my first few posts. And if you think I'm on the other team get a case going.

I will join this wagon though.

unvote
vote beastcharizard

Though possible, I feel they would simply be two different flavors of sour, rather than merely scumbuddies.

Day 1 Votecount 16

The Ruffling 13- pidgey,

BulbaFenix

,Chandra Nalaar,mozamis,

vezokpiraka

,

Josh_B

,Malakittens,Metal Sonic, Nero Cain,ZZZX,displaced,UnfriendlyNeighbors

Yates 5 - beastcharizard,PeregrineV,
Josh_B 1 - Umbrage
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
Chandra Nalaar 2 - Viomi,The Rufflig

Not Voting

Yates
ArcAngel9

V/LA

Mac
vezokpiraka (Sunday)

Prods

With 24 alive it took 13 to lynch.

looking at this, if multiball team 2 should have a few on ruffling. maybe scum in the not voting among the mac slot, vezo, and yates as I know my slot role.
The yates vote would be interesting. 1 scum there. 1 town. If Team A not bussing then interesting. Ruff did not hop onto that vote with fellow scum so may not be bussing mode going on. Pile on at end of lynch for Team A scum perhaps.
Then there is the umbrage, USB-Rachmarie- votes may be a scattered scum in there, hard to say. Gut says town leaning null though.

I have added underlines to the names of those I feel are most suspect on the Fliggy wagon. (I also removed all the dead players.) Of note, I also feel the Yates wagon to have scum on it beyond Squirly, and both names are suspect.

Kid A was, Wolverine Vanilla Town Stabbed in the back day 2

That is what trusting them will produce.

So is this:

The Ruffling was Ultron. Marvel Universe Villain Alliance mafia Encryptor lynched day 1

Don't flatter yourself, deary. You played little part in that lynch, and in multiball, it means nothing.

We have yet to play a scum game with this hydra, so I'm not sure how the combination of our two styles would fare in that situation.

I am wagering it will fare as it has this game.

I thought that Kid A was the last member of the Marvel scum team, and I wanted to get rid of the extra NK. I thought it was best to do so early, so as to not disrupt scuhunting by resetting the vote count, and by taking hunting for 2 teams out of consideration.

I do not find this logic to be convincing. Though it holds some ground in theory, I do not see a town-you advocating this, given the consequences it can (and did) produce: a wasted shot, with no information gained from it.

I must also add that while I am too lazy an old lady to check, I am reasonably certain that you are skilled at not answering all questions, and when you're in a position where you must answer, you typically deflect away. I have also observed that when this deflection does not succeed, your answers are a bit vague. Perhaps this old lady's memory is failing her, but I strongly correlate such behavior with a scum role PM.

I actually think her lynch will give us a lot of information. There are some great associatives in connection with her.

Name them. What do we get from a Vinny town-flip? What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain? (And if you try to speculate four Marvel Villains, my vote never leaves you for the entirety of the game.) What do we get if Vinny flips serial killer? What do we get if Vinny flips the currently-unrevealed mafia faction?

If you do not have an answer for each (although there is admittedly overlap), then you're lying. (Rather, telling the truth, from a specific perspective: that of a scum player who already knows more.)

I plan on getting to it, but I'd like to deal with the present situation.

Define what you mean by 'present situation', and "dealing with present situation". And while you are at it, explain why the present situation dictates VCA to not be important to you.

oh and chandra, you are a wee bit full of self by about a smidge.

The entire playerlist's egos put together in a room the size of mine would be able to fit snugly. However much Nally is, I am admittedly worse. However, my play holds little arrogance, for my many years of experience has taught me that it is simply justified confidence.

Thus why I wish others to follow me.

[Aunt Jemina]

You don't know how much I wish I did have a NK this game

Indeed. If I possessed a nightkill, you can be assured that between last night and this night, I most certainly would have shot dead one of BulbyFenny, Joshy, Grinny, Vezzy, or Beasty. Alas, I do not.

I'm seeing others say its 3 on one team and 4 on the other team, but is 4 and 4 an option?

It is not.

What do you guys think about a third faction?

A serial killer is not only possible, but probable, however, its existence is not yet proven and thus, not worth worrying about at this time. If there is a serial killer, it is a 4-3-1-17 game; if there is not, it is a 4-3-18 game.

Encryptor and JailKeeper are strong roles?

Incredibly. This is especially true if the final Marvel Villain is also a strong power role. Last time I was in a jason game like this, I was a member of the smaller scumteam, and our powers were a Godfather (that was also a Ninja), Watcher, and Roleblocker (with free daychat), if this old lady's memory holds. Having daychat and a roleblock/doctor makes them already strong.

Do you see three nightkills? I sure don't.

Nightkills can and often will fail, deary. What is important is flavor behind kills. Each faction will always have the same kill flavor. The vig kill will not differ between day or night. A serial killer flavor will be kept consistent. A mafia team's kill flavor will always be the same. "Died of multiple wounds" will always be death from multiple sources. A serial killer in the game is quite possible if one kill source did not succeed. If another flavor (that is not "died of multiple wounds") appears night two, then we have confirmation even if there are the same or reduced numbers of nightkills. Thus, something to keep an eye on, but not something to worry about until after it has been confirmed.

Josh b I THINK 4v4vtown is unbalanced, probably 3v3vtown from what ive seen in jason games.

No, it is 4v3, chance of 4v3v1.

#modmeta.

So this where my head is saying is a good lynch pool for today {Rach, PereV, Vezo, XXXZ & Displaced}.

The problem with this lynch pool is that the only two names in there I see realistically flipping scum are Grinny and Vezzy. Zexxy is among my sweetest reads, now, and the other two remain outside my sourreads.

As notation: I do not believe I already mentioned it, but Nally by now has moved into my sweet-reads list, and Ragey has too. Zexxy has moved from my sweet-reads list up to my central sugar core.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy.

There are plenty of other players guilty of regurgitating arguments, you among them.

I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum.

I have no doubts you do. (I fully believe Vezzy to be sour, just not on the unflipped team.) Where is your focus on the other team, deary?

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot.

So is BulbyFenny from what I gather. Your manner of approaching me is nearly identical as well. Saying I am town, but trying to manipulate me in this manner. It will not work. I am one of the most competent players in this game. Though I am not infallible, I am not so easily shaken nor fooled. Who on my sweet-list is sour, and more importantly, why? Why are my sour-reads (aside from you) wrong? I have shown you where I am coming from. You have not reciprocated. You do not explain your reads aside from the mixed ones and the beasty read, and your description of why he is sweet is a description of what I would expect from a sour player: asking questions with no follow-through, not drawing attention to himself, and not having notable reads.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

Why did you assign the unflipped team the color red?

I F up as town. A lot of people Fup as town. It's what makes the game fun.

It seems you have learned the art of misdirection, since I noted Nally's point and this is an entire deflection of it.

I didn't really like the way KidA was playing either once I found out that he wasn't a newb, but I thought it could be justified if he was a certain PR. Either way, I still thought that a KidA lynch would have been the more informational way to go.

So you thought that Kiddy should be lynched, regardless his alignment?

Both sides of the Hydra seem to be looking for two scum teams.

Them having

not

done so is one of the main points I presented against them. It has yet to be remedied.

It's where I came to the conclusion that "red" team was hunting "black" rather than towns.

Odd that you make this statement when it is in fact the very reason I feel you are sour with BulbyFenny in the first place.

Also, how is it scummy in your mind for me to suggest certain players on certain teams, when others have done the same thing.

It is not the act of saying a player is on a certain team. It is how that act is executed. In your case, you are doing so to sweet-read or sourread specific individuals. My sourreads are formed individually, and merely enhanced by these speculations. Yours are made specifically relying on them, and do not possess any thought of a player being on the larger team as anything more than a mere after-thought.

Though I must admit a preference to see a member of the unflipped scumteam flip, it is more for informative purposes so we know what we are looking for and have dead scum on both sides. I am more than content with any dead scum. You and BulbyFenny are both hunting a specific scum, that being the surviving Marvel Villain.

I can't simultaneously NK both SqG and TheAd.

My point was not that you nightkilled both of them. My point was that a scumteam with you in it has incentive to kill either of them, thus, a team with you in it could be responsible for either death.

[Aunt Jemina]

@AuntJ: Do you actually believe I bussed my encryptor with my third post and first non-rvs post?

I neither believe nor disbelieve the notion.

You are a sour-read. I have not sorted to which faction you would belong to with certainty.

[Aunt Jemina]

Nally, while I feel your exchange with Joshy is productive, in the chance that he were to be sweet, your back-and-forth is dominating the thread a bit more strongly than I feel is healthy. I would advise considering spoiler tags if you continue.

I don't think 3-3-1-X is completely out of the question either, but if there's an SK it's almost certainly Metal Sonic.

No, deary. Sonny's shots do not come from a serial killer. Aside from play making it unlikely (lashy is no Tammy pressured to claim; he claimed willingly and without hesitation as a newer player), setups jason have run since then have nearly-always possessed a dayvig,

especially

in multiball.

You keep doing this "I don't see X realistically flipping scum" thing. Townreads are wrong sometimes ya know.

Yes they can be. So can sourreads. My play is such that mine are in error with a decreased frequency to average. I have done what I can to explain my thoughts on nearly all of them.

The sourreads most in doubt are likely Vezzy and Grinny, but in spite of that doubt, I still think them scum. My sweet-reads aside from perhaps one or two (that I am no longer quite as sure on but have not elaborated on) are not so easily shaken.

[Aunt Jemina]

im finding it so hard to read you auntie, dunno why. I think i find some of your town reads weird.

There will be little need to read me this game, as I do not foresee myself living long. For me to not have made enemies of the scum would require me to have been entirely on the wrong basis.

However, that increases the importance of understanding my stances, which you have found weird. Name them and I will elucidate to the best of my ability.

i mean, its obvious that the dude who said "red team" with quotations just said a color for the hell of it.

If I felt that were the case, I would not have brought the point up. I did not feel he was saying "red team" as a color for the hell of it.

There is something off about Joshy. I cannot quite explain how, but for the entire game, he has felt as if he knows more than he should and has been playing differently than a town player would. There is a reason he is either my strongest or second-strongest sourread. (I feel him about equal to BulbyFenny.) Especially his interaction with BulbyFenny. Exploring this will have to wait until a later time, but I feel it must be done.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am also due for a reads list. I am fatigued, and will provide one when I have recovered.

[Aunt Jemina]

4 vs 3. Ok. It doesn't change the possibility that MUVA is the team of 4.

The three are going to be the marvel villains not only off of roles, but off of flavor. The marvel villains are a part of the marvel universe. This game's flavor is specifically about invaders from outside the universe, which are almost assuredly the unflipped scumteam. Jason isn't going to make the larger scumteam be marvel villains and have the smaller scumteam be from outside. It is similar to Dr. Who; the Time Lords are not nearly as villainous as Daleks, thus, were smaller and more powerful.

I was there to witness the balance. I know my Jason mod meta better than anyone else. There are four unflipped of one scumteam, and one marvel villain left.

No you haven't played with scum ms before

She technically did, in "xenosaga 2" as you call it, as your scumbuddy. You were in a hydra.

I don't think MS' shots clear him and I don't think that his claiming clears him. Mod meta

might

make him less likely to be an sk but a 3v3v19 game seems townsided and I'm not sold on the 3 and 4 man scum teams.

Alright, then, deary. Sonny is town for a combination of factors.

• lashy shot Rony, foreshadowed in 296, and to some extent (unvoting because he knew he'd shot) 372. This shows that lashy was shooting at players he was suspicious of.
  
• lashy was entirely open about having made the shot.
  
• lashy was under no pressure when making the shot. This combined with the above indicates a town mindset rather strongly, as lashy did not keep this secret. By claiming it, he draws attention to himself rather than away from himself.
  
• lashy having shot so impulsively, though not ideal town play, is also not scum play, because a sour player in that situation is more prone to making calculated shots. Or if not, if shooting immediately, of shooting someone they think is a threat. That was not the case.
  
• Sonny's play has been incredibly open, even more than lashy's was. He has hidden nothing and allowed you to see where he has come from clearly.
  
• Sonny's handling of the fake shots was also a town-motivated move. You may argue that the move did not accomplish much. However, if you look at the reasoning for the gambit to be made, there is town incentive and no matching scum incentive.
  
• Sonny's second shot, though similar to lashy's in that it was impulsive, showed that he was not saving onto it to make a play as scum. He shot when pressured to shoot, and that is a reaction more indicative of town (or at worst a serial killer).
  
• Recent moderator meta
  strongly
  favors day shooters being town-aligned in jason games.
  
• That same moderator meta specifies that the day shooter being town-aligned is in-flavor a bit morally ambiguous. Last game, The Master was the day-vigilante; this game, Sonny's claim is of a similar vein.
  
• If another source of kills shows up, it confirms that the game possesses two scum, a serial killer, and a vigilante. A town vig seeing Sonny having claimed would have either shot Sonny or been heavily suspicious of him; that has not happened. Thus, if a third source of kills appears during the night, they belong to a serial killer and both mafia factions, with the day-killer being the vigilante.

You are quite correct that he is not cleared. But these points are more than enough for me to consider him as such.

I am beginning to suspect Rach might be the easiest thing for everyone to agree on.

Thus why she is a lynch I would not favor as a result. The less resistance there is to a lynch, the more likely it is the lynchee has no allies to defend themselves.

I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum.

I have no doubts you do. (I fully believe Vezzy to be sour, just not on the unflipped team.)

@AuntJ: Do you actually believe I bussed my encryptor with my third post and first non-rvs post?

I neither believe nor disbelieve the notion.

You are a sour-read. I have not sorted to which faction you would belong to with certainty.

Does not compute.

Though I realize those are a mere two posts apart, my opinion did in fact merely change between them. I feel you are likely to be sour. I am uncertain as to where. Though I initially had a thought you would not be the unflipped team, I am no longer so certain, even if I ultimately lean that way overall.

Derp town, but town nonetheless. (I really need to sheepmore- but I'm not going to)

As Nally pointed out, this shows cognitive dissonance with how you have been playing previously.

I think you are reading ZZZX based on him and I not being scum together or ZZZX and neither of us being MUVA.

No, deary. My argument for Zexxy being town has nothing to do with you, and entirely to do with how his mindset has become apparent in his posting and is town similarly to how Kiddy was.

I think we are both trying for a ZZZX lynch, maybe it's because we're both pushing for it that you are scum reading us together.

I am not fond of repeating myself. My sourread has nothing to do with your pushes. It has to do with your play. The pushes merely augment this, first on Kiddy and now on Zexxy.

And I don't know why you are singling BulbaFenix out for town reading me.

I am not singling BulbyFenny out for the townread. It is the way the townread was handled that raised my eyebrow.

Consider for a moment that you are wrong on us as a team, Who would like to see Lynched, and most importantly who's flip would be the code breaker that proved the link you are seeing isn't scum related?

If I was wrong about you being a team, it would be BulbyFenny I would most want lynched, for in that scenario I would believe you to either be town or scum not with him. Thus my vote.

I

really

don't agree with the BeastCharizard case. Specifically because of this post:

@Nero: I was going to sheep you but then I got a heavy scum read so I decided I didn't need to sheep you. Sheeping is done when one doesn't have any strong reads but you trust in someone else's non-strong reads more than your own.

His response to not sheeping Nero, seems truthful and like it's coming from town. still want to see him post some reads though.

Though I understand the basis for this, it is not something I can agree with, for I feel it to not be the case. The statement did not feel genuine, but were it to be, I still do not feel it is indicative of a town alignment, as saying it is not something beasy is incapable of doing as scum. In fact, it reads as that: a sour player reading a script.

I feel Ragey is likely sweet for this, because it strongly indicates a mindset not yet recovered from the reveal of multiball, in that he is still thinking partially in terms of a single-faction game.

Really? Because if I saw someone locked into hunting for a single faction, I'd be incredibly suspicious.

As would I. That is not what I said, however. I said that Ragey's mindset strongly indicated he was thinking in terms of this having been a single-faction game. Not that he was hunting a specific faction in a multi-faction game. The latter is suspicious. The former is a townslip of not having known and adjusted to the reveal.

Don't even start that with me Nero. You're acting like I shouted you down about a Mala/SG connection, when I didn't. I simply asked why you thought they were scum together and then disagreed with you. Also, in the realm of "in case I'm wrong", Mala is not even in the same league as Kid A. Kid A was a good shot regardless, as he was providing nothing to the town. Mala, if town, is someone you want to keep around.

This thought process is also not indicative of a town alignment to me. It feels like a justification rather than an explanation for an action.

I think it's time to develop a town block of awesome like we had in Fire Emblem.

You married scum, and gave birth to an infected seed. Do forgive me if I am suspicious of your efforts to townbloc when referencing that game.

I find it strange, though, that you claim such intimate knowledge of my meta, even though it is off. Have we played together, or did you just do a quick skim of some of my old games?

I am not at liberty to discuss. I have some meta knowledge, but I do not claim intimate knowledge of your meta. It is other players I know more intimately.

It was probably not the best decision, but I don't think it was a wasted shot.

Oh? Then what did we learn from it other than that Kiddy was not the last Marvel scum?

What do we get from a Vinny town-flip?

We get information based on who was calling her town and defending her and who was on her wagon.

This information seems near-useless to a town player and yet incredibly beneficial for a scum player.

Additionally, refer to below.

What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain?

1 less NK.

Do not be a smartass, deary. You know that I meant what information would be gained. You specifically said that a Vinny lynch would generate great associatives. When I questioned you on what they are, you give this. For someone claiming it would gain information, you seem to be awfully hesitant to say what that information would be.

The most productive answer you gave was for the serial killer question...when the presence of a serial killer is not even confirmed, and was asked more as a hypothetical. Thus, your best answer was for the least-relevant and least-probable scenario.

I got so excited about it, that I stopped where I was and told MS to shoot.

This still does not answer the question of why you were so eager to shoot immediately. I realize that you have given reasons, but I simply cannot understand your logic for the discovering exciting you that much and you being so enthusiastic about it if you are town. When I am sour and I discover that type of connection, I will act as you did and rush into it. As a sweet player, I do not possess nearly the same amount of adrenaline.

Who on my sweet-list is sour, and more importantly, why?

Why are my sour-reads (aside from you) wrong?

[Your answer cut][/quote] I was not asking you, deary. That question was for Joshy.

We think Viomi and ZZZX are on the other scum team.

Odd that both yourself and Joshy have made this claim. I am finding it a far more likely hypothesis that you are scum together and legitimately scumreading Vinny and Zexxy, but think them to be the marvel villain and a serial killer.

You can see this with his multiball assumption d1, which he took from Yates, and his 4 person scum team assumption, which he took from you.

I am reasonably certain he did not. I will do the fact-checking at a later time, as this post has eaten up a significant portion of my time.

[Aunt Jemina]

I will, however, provide a reads list. Changes will be noted.

Sweet as can be:

5 Nero Cain
9 Metal Sonic
16 mozamis
1 TheWayItEnds

20 sharpest knife on the tree

--This slot was a sweet-read from what little Angel posted, but not enough to be in my sugary central core. Kotty, however, has been amazingly pro-town, not only with his stances, but also with his reasoning behind the stances.

14 ZZZX

--Zexxy was already a sweet-read, but since then, his posting has only gotten stronger. The case against him simply has not made sense, and he raises some surprisingly-valid points if you look closely enough for them. He is not a strong town player, but he most certainly

is

town.
15 Viomi

24 Chandra Nalaar

--Though my thoughts do not align perfectly to Nally's own, Nally's posting has been incredibly impressive to me. Nally has shown a complete lack of any indicator I would use to track a scum role PM, and is only getting stronger.

Sweetreads:

21 pidgey

13 Umbrage

--as before, I feel his posting has seemed amazingly sweet at times, but it contains elements which I feel are deeply anti-town, ironic as that may be given his insistence on policy-lynching Zexxy. This doubt when I know Ragey to be capable of more is what keeps him from entering my sugary central core.

25 displaced

--The positioning of the read remains. The reasoning has changed. Though I have felt that his posting has not been as town as I was expecting, there are flashes of what looks really town, such as the tone behind his challenge to players scumreading him.

Waffles:

12 RachMarie--I eagerly await new content so that I may make a more final judgment.

23 UnfriendlyNeighbors (Mac/Cabd Hydra)

--my old lady instincts changed, to perhaps be a snap-decision of sweet, but not there yet. Otherwise, nothing additional to say.

19 Malakittens

--Kitty's posting was largely in-tune with my own thoughts, but has since fallen out. Additionally, her content thusfar has been surprisingly lacking and her contributions to this game minimal. One of these traits would be a bit concerning, but ultimately not shake my faith. Both of them present has significantly placed doubt in my mind about her, in spite of our early synchronization.

Rotten to the core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)
7 Josh_B
11 PeregrineV

Sour Reads:

22 beastcharizard

--either beasty's posting took a sudden decline or was always this bad and it took me until recently to realize it. I have not liked any of his recent contributions at all. Additionally, I remember him being under pressure during D1. If that pressure came at a key time, then it may explain the votecounts turning up the way they have. (I have yet to run my facts on this.)

4 vezokpiraka

[Aunt Jemina]

A tactic I use as scum is basically town read a town which is pushed on a lynch and saving his ass. Ending up with making him survive throu Lylo making it a scum autowin (if you dont get caught) but this is not the same. At least I dont think it is.

It is insights such as this that continue to show why Zexxy is town.

Alrighty so prettyyyy sure Rach is town especially with her recent contributions.

I'm inclined to agree.

Less so with yourself, deary. Your play here is increasingly reminding me of Xenogears. You are posting and commenting on factors, but are not truly analyzing the game.

I think you are a very good player and know how to play this game. If anyone objects to this please tell me.

Your read on ZZZX is just pure bullshit. He is in such a place that people consider him to be townie enough, but not everyone. You defend him and set him up for a mislynch in case you die. Or you could be scum together, but I somehow doubt that.

You moved beastcharizard in your sure scum slot because you realized he is an easy lynch and you will have reason for voting him when the time comes. Your progression onto this read is not natural. It is not how a townie thinks.

And of course the irresistible vezok scum read. I don't think I've played a game where scum didn't push for me hoping for an easy lynch.

Your reasoning here seems to be with the assumption that I am scum, rather than having formed the conclusion I am scum. Can I not be town who simply understands how to correctly read Zexxy? Can I not have moved beasty into my sourreads pile (note he is not in my 'sure scum' pile) because I think him to be scum? (Particularly given multiscum, even if I were to be scum, this is true--can I not scumhunt as scum?) Is it not possible for me to have an imperfect read on you?

You seem to be saying I am a skilled player, yet your very reasoning for saying I would be scum relies on me playing scum like a baby would, when I am quite elderly. It is again not the type of play I would anticipate coming from a sweet-vezok.

[Aunt Jemina]

BulbyFenny's posts are long enough to merit their own response, and I shall do so at a later time. Let me simply declare an intense dislike for 2018 and momentarily leave it at that.

I've called the following town and still believe that;

Ruffling

, Nero, Chandra, JKlash

I've called the following scum and still believe that; Josh, Umbrage, Displaced,

TheAdmiral

I will admit my read on Mozimas is getting wonky. I like a lot of what is being said there, I still don't like the early play. I guess call it a nullish to scum read now. I have a generally positive vibe towards Aunt Jemina though she feels hard to read. Basically I feel like she could fake me out easily. I sort of generically am okay with the pushes on ZZZX, beast, and maybe even Unfriendly (though that last one I would be hard pressed to describe the case, but the sort of recriminatory lashing out response feels dirty to me) Most of the rest of the crowd I don't think I have a very good feel for, a lot just feel like they...well, exist..

I assume this was quoted with the intention of finding a scumbuddy. I would like to raise the option that it may also prove useful for finding scum, if she was killed for her sour reads. Joshy, Beasty, and the neighbors are the names that stick out most to me.

I'm unsure about Bulba. In general he looks like he's scum hunting, but I disagee strongly with him about Viomi. Her reaction looked like pissed off town, plain and simple.

Regardless of his alignment, Bulby is going to have scumhunted. I am merely under the strong impression he is doing so with a sour rolecard himself.

While I see Sonny's case in 2041 and admit that it has merit, I feel it does not apply. I can see a transition in Vinny's thoughts that makes sense, especially since a sweet player is going to be more prone to changing their mind and/or becoming emotionally compromised. The latter is of particular importance, since a player that has been emotionally compromised is not going to be thinking rationally, and may focus on something they otherwise would not be. I also feel the meta point does not hold validity, as the account is an alt and the original context made this clear; if you are playing a specific manner that goes against your normal style, it is entirely natural to occasionally slip up into said normal style accidentally, and thus, self-meta on an account meant to ignore meta is not a point I feel applies. The very contradiction you seem to be insisting on, I in fact see as consistency in a mindset. For Vinny likely does believe meta is the best way to sort players...yet wished to avoid it under the name Vinny.

explain your read on me? Since we played a few games together you would know best that my playstyle is the same. I feel you are trying to force a scum read on me.

same here. explain your read on me too beast

Dat read list.
Three quarters of the players null.

There is a reason that beasty became a sour read of mine. It is for things such as that. It is not just the reads. You can have reads that are sub-optimal as town. It is the entire lack of logic behind them. As just one example, Zexxy's reads I am often in disagreement with, but the thought process motivating them is clearly sweet. Endy's 2093 is another strong example of someone I feel is wrong but is sincerely wrong.

On that subject: The Nally-Endy exchange could not have been more of a town/town argument.

unvote
vote viomi

Why did you move off of beasty in spite of nothing new on Vinny since your previous post and content from beasty that made him

more

suspicious to you?

I am increasingly growing into the mindset that beasty is in fact sour, but is alone (perhaps a serial killer), and that I should pursue a BulbyFenny/Joshy/Grinny/Kitty team with vezzy as the other lone scum.

I'm much rather be lynching in Bulb/UFN/Mala.

Bulb/UFN/Mala>>>>BC>>>>Viomi>>>>MS>>>>nl

I'd also buy a vowel and a Rach lynch.

Would that vowel happen to be vezz-

E

?

This is along my thoughts, if removing Sonny, and moving the neighbors to that spot (the third name replacing them being Grinny). Vinny would be a decent lynch for informative purposes to allow players recalibration, but is a bad lynch otherwise as Vinny is not going to flip sour. Beasty is an okay lynch, but not ideal. BulbyFenny/Grinny/Kitty are my preferences, in order. (I would note that Joshy is still in my suspect list, but I do not foresee him being lynched today in spite of my desires.)

[Aunt Jemina]

I'm really starting to wonder if you can really be town with reads this bad.

-Bulba

The irony is not lost on me.

Why do they suck so bad?

Is it because you're really scum?

Yes, deary. It is.

Why are we talking to you as if you are town lol

Apart from the fact that it is a common courtesy that garners more productive information than "you scum" "no, u", there is of course the fact that he simply

is

sweet.

I must rest, but I will respond to BulbyFenny posts in detail when I have recuperated.

[Aunt Jemina]

Endy and Nally

, dearies, I would much appreciate you cease your sausage-wagging contest and focus on the bacon instead. You are both sweet.

and I'm still not reading half the game because of ZZZX shitting up the thread
someone vig him please

The vig happens to be the player with the strongest townread on Zexxy, deary. You can always request the scum (or perhaps a serial killer) take him out, but he is not dying by town hands. Least of all while I still draw breath.

Regardless of his alignment, Bulby is going to have scumhunted. I am merely under the strong impression he is doing so with a sour rolecard himself.

Why do they suck so bad?
Is it because you're really scum?

Yes, deary. It is.

Those two statements are saying the same thing, deary. BulbyFenny will have scumhunted even when sour. It will even come across as genuine, for it was done genuinely. This does not preclude his reads from reflecting his actual alignment, for a scum player not only has biases, but also possesses an agenda. Thus, though particular reads are certainly going to be legitimate, a fair number of them will be influenced by necessity of a scum wincon to be ordered as they are.

I cannot help but note that Kitty's V/LA ended yesterday and yet she has not provided content to this time. Joshy's 2274 also rubbed me the wrong way.

I also want to say that I have a severe distaste in my mouth for this scum read combo. Can anyone tell me how the crap both of these players (including the ones that wrote it) have come to a Bulbafenix/Malakittens combo. I want to see posts that link Mala and BF together. Or some sort of legit explanation that would cause this FoS.

As did this, but to answer, my reads on the players are not specifically because of interactions. I have explained multiple times that they largely form individually, and that interactions are merely augmenting what is already there for both.

I said it before: finding scum is more important than finding

specific

scum. Though I feel I may be locking onto figuring out the unflipped scumteam, it is ultimately a secondary priority to obtaining a scum lynch. Hunting for a specific team is something that will inevitably be far more trouble than it is worth. You pointed this out yourself for the unflipped team. I say it is true (only more so) for the Marvel Villains as well.

[Aunt Jemina]

Im still weary about aunt jemina because she seems too good to be true

A common feeling, I am told, but I assure you, I am not. I have a saying, deary: respect your elders. My accuracy in games has been such that doing so would have prevented multiple town losses.

she seems calculated.

This is because my natural playstyle is more impulsive, deary. It is also less accurate. I have a single game I consider a mark of shame, and that is the game where I was my more natural impulsive playstyle: Open 446. I caused the town to lose that game.

Thus, since then I have continued maintaining a conscious effort of my posting. The results have spoken; this attitude caused me to kill the only scum that died in switch mafia, to correctly call the scum in At one fell swoop, to nearly catch the entire scumteam of Death's Diner, to consistently be on the trail of scum in Aircraft madness, and even when I was scum scumhunting they were of use (albeit not as reliably).

My tone being artificial is a price I am more than willing to pay if the results are an increase in my accuracy. I feel I am a stronger player for it.

[Aunt Jemina]

Universal Slut was dodgy, and Rach came in and voted for the main wagon. Good scum hunting. And I wasn't really convinced by her whole "Vezo is town, ooops no, wrong person".

mozzy, deary, with a fair amount of certainty, I believe this to be her towngame.

Please consider an alternative vote. What are your thoughts on BulbyFenny? Grinny? Vezzy? Joshy? The neighbors? Kitty?

[Aunt Jemina]

JOSH B IS A CLAIMED IDIOT!

I prefer to believe in the competency of players, deary. I do not think Joshy to be the brightest bulb, but I do not feel he would be playing in this manner as a sweet player.

Its possible that AJ is scum and sheeping/shadowing me, its also possible that AJ just has a similar mindset as me.

The latter. You have played with me before, Nero, deary. We work well together.

AJ, be a dear and give me a list of your nicknames for each player.

Arcangel9 = Angel, Aronis = Rony, beasty = beastcharizard, BulbyFenny = BulbaFenix (thus, Bulby = Bulbazak), Nally = Chandra Nalaar, moddie or jason = our mod jason, lashy = jklash12, Joshy = Josh_B, Kiddy = Kid A, Kitty = Malakittens, Sonny = Metal Sonic, mozzy = mozamis, Mutty = Mutleyddmc, Nero = you, I forgot what I used for pappums rat, Grinny = PeregrineV, pidgey = pidgey, Rach = RachMarie, kotty = Sharpest knife on tree, Squirly = Squirrel Girl, Thaddy = ThAdmiral, fliggy = The Rufflig, Endy = TheWayItEnds, Ragey = Umbrage, vezzy = vezokpiraka, Vinny/Vimmy = Viomi, Yates = Yates, and Zexxy = ZZZX.
Those not listed I have not named.

I'm down with a displaced, Chandra, vezok, Metal Sonic, or ZZZK lynch today.

Vinny, deary, bless your heart. But the only name in there who has a high chance of flipping scum is vezzy.

Lynch pool: Beast, Umbrage, Rach, Vezok, Peregrine?

Yours is better, deary, but Rach is town, and Ragey is a very strong sweet-read of mine.

It disturbs me, however, that the Bulba wagon is the only one I feel reasonably confident is comprised of townies.

There is a reason for that, deary; it is one of the only wagons actually on a sour player.

Aunt J, deary, what is your read on us?

It varies. It has gone as bad as nearly in the rotten core, it has gone up to the sweet-reads, where I vaguely remember you last being. I will let you know what the read is after my head has gotten back into the game.

[Aunt Jemina]

Rach, deary, it is because I have a fairly strong familiarity with your play as both alignments. You may not think that you are that easy to read, but I assure you that you are. You have shown strong indicators in spite of your limited content that this is your sweet game.

[Aunt Jemina]

But a lot of her actions are not making sense coming from a town mindset.

Oh? Do tell.

You can get that especially by looking at her response to Vezok, where she's not just responding to him as if he was town, but subconsciously acting as if he really is, showing evidence of actually knowing his alignment.

I always treat my scumreads as if they are town, deary. (Aside from my mark of shame game.) If I am right about them being sour, then there is little harm done as I lose minimal credibility for having done so. If I am wrong about them being sour, then my interactions with them treating them as sweet increase my chance of figuring out that I was in error. It is a countermeasure against confirmation bias, one I have found to be rather effective.

As for you claiming I allegedly know vezzy's alignment rather than simply treating him as if he were town, this is also demonstratively false. Aside from multiball assuring that a sour me has no way of knowing every player's alignment (at most knowing the alignment of three others), there is also the very handling I have done of his slot. Though I am quite respectful of my scumreads, they are always shown clearly to be my scumreads, as I have done with him. (I will provide elaboration on any scumread that has not been shown with clarity.) Name these supposed treatments of him as if he were town. Back up your words with quotes. Because this is merely empty words when not provided sustenance.

Aunt J is still scum.

If I were to be scum, then this sure would be me at my most pro-town scumgame I have ever played, deary. I have never felt my reads were in more top-form than I have in this game.

On that note about my reads, on reflection, I realized that I may in fact be wrong about vezzy being sour. I am not sure about being wrong, but I am beginning to suspect as much, especially given my feelings about other players. I will see about the implications of this when I compile an updated reads list.

worst case: we get a very very high information lynch

Name the info you gain from Vinny flipping town, Sonny.

It should be noted that Nally's posting on this page has not been very good, especially given that I am strongly doubting my vezzy read, am particularly concerned about beasty's alignment, and that lynching Vinny would be on policy and nothing more.

Ceddy (displaced) may in fact be sour, but I have severe doubts on that and think that his posting is still coming from a sweet mindset. However, that does not mean I am particularly fond of what he is pushing.

Joshy's 2274 also rubbed me the wrong way.

Why?

Obviously, a week-long vacation from the game has not done favors to this old lady's memory. However, I should be able to recollect my thoughts on why at a time in the near-future, after I have accomplished some higher-priority tasks.

If you are defending her actions as not being from scum, then you are saying they are not coming from a scum mindset. Ergo, they're coming from a town mindset. Now explain how that is a town mindset.

This black-and-white thinking is one reason that I am of the opinion BulbyFenny is sour, for it completely ignores that far more likely third scenario in that it came from a mindset that is not tied to alignment, town OR scum. There are ways players will react that are null, as they would do so as either alignment.

Furthermore, this post has a very strong hint of "Guilty until proven innocent", when a town player should be working the other way around, as there are more town in a game than there are scum, thus, more innocents than guilties. I am quite aware that Bulby has shown both of these tendencies as a sweet player, but why I feel it is condemning him is that he has previously acknowledged these traits as weaknesses in his play that he has aimed to eliminate. Were he to be sweet this game, he would have entirely not done so.

[Aunt Jemina]

As before, changes noted in bold.

Sweet as can be:

5 Nero Cain
9 Metal Sonic
16 mozamis
1 TheWayItEnds
20 sharpest knife on the tree
14 ZZZX
15 Viomi

12 RachMarie

--As stated, I have great familiarity with her play as both alignments, and this is quite solidly her town game. She could not be more sweet; in spite of not having much content, her alignment is transparently town.

Sweetreads:

24 Chandra Nalaar

--The read has faded thanks to the concerning recent content, but only enough to bump Nally out of the sweet core; Nally is my strongest normal sweet-read.
21 pidgey
13 Umbrage

25 displaced

--As before, the positioning remains the same overall. (Perhaps on his way up.) Yet again my reasoning now differs. I have not liked the content he has given, yet I feel like the content comes from a sweet player.

Waffles:

4 vezokpiraka

--On reflection, I realized my reasoning for having vezzy as sour was not as strong as I had been assuming. The way other scumreads of mine were treating him also has unsettled me somewhat, and now I am in severe doubt about my sourread there.
23 UnfriendlyNeighbors (Mac/Cabd Hydra)

Rotten to the core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)
7 Josh_B
11 PeregrineV

Sour Reads:

19 Malakittens

--My read on Kitty has been decaying throughout the game, as her thoughts have continued to diverge from my expectations of her sweet self. Perhaps she is preoccupied with matters in her personal life, but there reaches a point where that justification is stretched thin, as I would expect her to be providing something good in what little she gives. Yet I have not been seeing these signs. I have seen weak pushes that serve not to further a pro-town goal, but merely to exist and plant seeds of doubt about players that may be mislynched. Though it is not the strongest, 2332 is the most recent example, where she simply puts together quotes and does no real push behind why this would be important. Her posting has been infrequent and the content in it never much better than that. She is well on her way to the rotten list.

22 beastcharizard

--Though in the same position, it should be noted that this sourread is significantly weaker than it was before. I am having extreme doubts about it. Overall, I feel that were he to be sour, it would (at least currently) be without scumbuddies.


I feel this list may be slightly imperfect. However, it is overall where I stand.

[Aunt Jemina]

That is to say, I have some strong townreads I'm keeping in that bowl of cranberries, and everyone else is a stack of waffles that everyone including said townreads keeps pouring more syrup on! Stoppit!

When in doubt? Sheep me.

Alternatively, sheep Nero.

...When both Nero and myself are in agreement about a read? There are not enough sheep available for how many we deserve to have herded, deary.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hmm. I realize that the order of my sweetest reads wasn't quite right.

5 Nero Cain
1 TheWayItEnds
20 sharpest knife on the tree
16 mozamis
9 Metal Sonic
14 ZZZX
12 RachMarie
15 Viomi

I feel this is more accurate. Endy is moving up for picking up on the exact same things I have pointed out. Sonny did not move down; it was me realizing that both kotty and mozzy needed to move up. Similarly, mozzy did not move down; I simply realized that my kotty and Endy sweetreads were even stronger than my incredibly-strong mozzy-townread. Rach also is more town than Vinny, thus the adjustment.

However, far less important to the game is my sweet-reads (aside from keeping them from getting mislynched or fighting each other) and far more important is my sour-reads. I would strongly prefer a BulbyFenny lynch, though I would accept a Joshy, Grinny, or Kitty lynch as well. (I am uncertain on whether I would be okay with a beasty lynch, but I am most certainly not currently comfortable with a vezzy lynch.)

[Aunt Jemina]

'What information do we get from viomi lynch'
How about reads on me, bulbafenix , twie, yourself, displaced, Chandra, and like almost everyone who is vested in this case right now?

Explain what these reads are with each possible alignment Vinny will flip, deary.

I feel it would be potentially informative, yes, but not nearly as much as you seem to believe.

Aunt J, you put too much energy into reminding us all what your thoughts are and not enough into pursuing said thoughts.

On the contrary, deary. I spend so little time on showing what my thoughts are that I am prone to forgetting them, as I have become overly focused on the pursuit of them. If need be, I can explain this and show posts demonstrating that (it is present in nearly every non-readslist post I have made since our return), but this train of thought seems to be a mere distraction that would serve simply to remind you of my thoughts rather than actually helping pursue them.

The Bulba/TWIE wallfight is simply reminding me that Bulba makes very logical and nice-sounding arguments without altering my opinion either way about either player's alignment. It seems like kind of a waste of time?

I am of almost this precise opinion. I feel it does serve a purpose, in that Bulby's arguments show the flaw in his approach to the game that I feel is coming from a sour player. It has also served to significantly strengthen my sweet-read on Endy. Yet I do agree that it does nothing to alter the opinions of anyone on Vinny.

Nero: Whatever the heck this is supposed to mean

Bulb/UFN/Mala>>>>BC>>>>Viomi>>>>MS>>>>nl
I'd also buy a vowel and a Rach lynch.

Mozamis... doesn't have a clear lynch pool
What have we learned? We've learned it's time to take a closer look at Mala.

Approximately, Nero's list is that he will lynch BulbyFenny/the neighbors/Kitty equally but would prefer them in that order. He feels a beasty lynch is inferior, but the best not among those. That continues into Vinny, and Sonny. I will take a look at mozzy later to see if I can provide his answer.

However, I am in agreement about Kitty. She is one of my sour-reads. My main concern is that she is not my strongest scumread, there is minimal content about and on her (thus limiting information gained by lynching her), and that her posting on this page (95) may mean she is sweet. She may be the only viable lynch available, but I am not ready to switch at this point in time. It is as you said: time to take a closer look at Kitty. She is of need for analysis, and a place to focus a fair amount of attention, so that we may gather more final thoughts.

[Aunt Jemina]

If you town read someone it doesnt mean thier reads are correct. Not all town are sane enough to get a 100% accuracy. Actually noone is sane enough to achieve that.

I was under the impression that this was an unspoken given that everyone in the list already knows. I, for one, am certainly aware my reads will not be perfect. However, I do have a very strong feeling that they are at their best this game. The last time I felt this accurate was in Death's Diner, and justifiably so.

You do realize that I think you're playing up being a pariah or some shit because you can admit that your reads might not be completely accurate.
Keep acting like a fucking martyr though.

Endy, deary, it is for reasons such as these that my Nally read is reinvigorated as sweet. Perhaps slightly bittersweet to you, but I am growing strongly reassured in my sweet-read.

Aunt j- i checked the post the you posted from me. Do you want to break down what you dont like about it or are you happy advertising my posts?

I do in fact wish to break it down. I will do so at the first moment I have the ability to.

I'd be interested in what if anything would change about your reads if you knew I were town?

Considering you are already a sweet-read (merely not being a sweetest-read), not much, deary. You would move up to my central sweet core of reads, and I would cast an increasingly-suspicious gaze at your wagon.

the large amount of resistance to her wagon gives me a good idea that she is one of the most powerful scum PRs (and got pretty pissed off when i fake shot her cause she didnt get to use it yet!) and her team is desperately trying to defend her to stop her lynch.

This could be true if one, two, or perhaps three players were defending the lynch, deary.

The resistance to the Vinny wagon is

much

stronger than that. Is everyone resisting against it and/or pushing alternatives sour? I think not. Have you considered the possibility that the Vinny wagon hasn't formed stronger simply because the Vinny wagon is not a good wagon? I share the concerns about the composition of the wagon: aside from yourself and Zexxy, I have held suspicion on every name there. While ceddy I think to be sweet, the three additional names there have been among my sour reads all day.

Though I am reconsidering the vezzy read, I am still of the opinion that this is a wagon that is supported primarily by scum. If you, Zexxy, and vezzy were to all be sweet, I can see you forming essentially a three-man masonry and voting together. Ceddy's presence is slightly concerning, but I can see sweetness emanating from him in spite of that. Such leniency does not apply to BulbyFenny or Grinny. It is not a good wagon.

if town, would invalidate my reads and may have to look who genuinely believed she was town or who was defending her for town cred (note: highly unlikely because multiball)

So basically, if Vinny flips town, you will have no way of differentiating between who was town defending her and who was scum defending her. Is this summation wrong? Because that is what I got out of this, and if so, that contributes to why the Vinny lynch is a bad one. If there is no information to be gained from what Vinny is almost-assuredly flipping, then the lynch is sub-optimal.

[Aunt Jemina]

I feel the need at this stage to continue with my updated reads, as yet again they have changed.

Sweet as can be:

5 Nero Cain
1 TheWayItEnds
20 sharpest knife on the tree
16 mozamis
9 Metal Sonic
14 ZZZX
12 RachMarie
15 Viomi

24 Chandra Nalaar

--Nally's content since my concern has put my mind back to ease about her.

21 pidgey

--though I was slightly concerned about pidgey earlier, having seen him more, I am near-certain that this is his sweet-game now.

Sweetreads:

25 displaced

--Though enough concern remains as to have him not be in my central sweet core, I have increasingly liked what he is posting. While I'm not agreeing with a lot of his thoughts, I see them coming from a sweet player all the same.
13 Umbrage

Waffles:

4 vezokpiraka

23 UnfriendlyNeighbors (Mac/Cabd Hydra)

--they may be on their way back down. (It depends on how many scum are in the game; it is either five or six. If five, then it is plausible albeit arrogantly presumptuous that I have all in the below. If six, then I am missing one, and they're my best guess.)

Rotten to the core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)
7 Josh_B
11 PeregrineV

Sour Reads:

19 Malakittens

22 beastcharizard

[Aunt Jemina]

EBWOP:

Ragey is also moving down into the waffles zone, out of concern that he may be a serial killer. I do not feel as if he is group scum. If a serial killer were to exist, it is a strong possibility that he could be it, given his play thusfar this game. Yet this is something to not be concerned about unless the existence of a serial killer has been proven.

[Aunt Jemina]

Those of you not on top 3 wagons (Viomi, Displaced, Beast), what is your feeling of those three wagons, do you see any of the three as scummy? If not why not?

Of them, the beasty wagon is the one which sucks the least, for he has a chance of flipping sour. I do not hold great confidence that he will, but I will consolidate my vote onto him if one of my higher choices proves impossible to obtain.

[Aunt Jemina]

i mean seriously who cares if bulbafenix is scum and on the wagon? even if he is, viomi isnt going to be on the same team as him, so it doesnt make a difference at all.

It will when Vinny flips sweet, deary.

Day 2 Vote count 15

viomi 7 - Metal Sonic ,BulbaFenix,displaced,PeregrineV,vezokpiraka,ZZZX,beastcharizard,
beastcharizard 6- RachMarie,Malakittens ,Umbrage,pidgey,Chandra Nalaar,Sharpest-knife-on-tree,
BulbaFenix 3 - Aunt Jemina,Nero Cain,TheWayItEnds,

These are the wagon candidates that are viable today. I will absolutely not support a Vinny wagon, and beasty is my last resort when it comes to lynching. I would still very much prefer BulbyFenny.

The fact that Viomi takes less interest in thier(her/his) survival than you do does not speak well of them.
Their insistence that scum is all over their wagon, yet a counterwagon is building.
If they are town, thier wagon has reached stalling speeds.

All of these are reasons that I want to find Viomi town, but it hasn't happened yet.

But, contrawise, I also find displaced and Beast scummy, so those wagons totally make sense. And all three make sense with the whole multi-scum game.

This is additionally a scum post from Grinny, but I have not the ability to explain at this time, as this old lady is posting here between errands.

[Aunt Jemina]

Still that was a hilarious way to botch a fakeclaim.

No, deary.

That was not a botched fakeclaim.

That was a realclaim that happened to be from a sour player.

What Vinny didn't mention is that he not only knew Grinny's role and alignment, but also character name.
Jason rolecops (at least mafia rolecops)

are

cops. They receive the full PM of their target. Thus, Vinny knew not only Grinny's role (Vanilla), but also his alignment (Town) and his character (unclaimed).

If I had been around at deadline and saw that claim, I would have defended it as being from town. He did not lie. He was simply caught for the wrong reasons.

Well that was interesting. Kill overlap or block, hmmm..

Not a kill overlap, because kill overlaps have a very distinct flavor, deary.

You're the meta expert; you should really know both of these things.

I am confident that it was a block.

I want whoever our protective role is to protect Chandra tonight.

Anyone think this might explain anything about last night?

I very much sincerely doubt it. I am of the opinion it was in fact a block, not a kill, causing the absent nightkill.

There will also be no need for me to be lynched this game, as I am the next nightkill. I am not a player who will earn protection this game, and yet killing me will match the kill pattern for whoever it was that killed Endy, thus, they will not fear protection roles being on me.

VOTE: Malakittens.

I will now curl up into a ball and wither away into dust.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am of course fully of the opinion that Nally, BulbyFenny (happy first anniversary, dearies), and Cabby are sweet, but I am in no position to make reads beyond that at this juncture.
If you have questions of me, I will answer.

However, I will not be asking many of my own unless I recover, for that was not what I had anticipated.

[Aunt Jemina]

I'd say PereV is town based on Viomi derping

Stop ignoring my points. Not derping, deary.

Truthfully claiming.

The results are the same: Grinny is town.
The reasoning differs. Because Grinny is not simply not-DC. Grinny is explicitly sweet, because Vinny received Grinny's full role PM.

Take it from the old lady who

was

the rolecop in a jason game; I know how he treats his roles.

AJ might be scum. Chandra is not.

I understand why you feel this way, deary. I have failed as my natural posting self many times before. But I have never failed as my more logical self until this game. It has left an indescribable feeling of despair. I have had reads that have been in error. I have never as my logical self so fervently advocate a read and have it turn out wrong. It is confusing. It will perhaps be humbling when I have recollected my thoughts. And it has left me knowing very full and well why there is suspicion on myself. But you have my word, deary. I spoke in earnest about my reads, for I thought them to be solid.

I am quite aware why you know Nally to be town. (This old lady sees things no other player may observe.) I ask you for trust in me to be sweet. I will die before you do by nightkill regardless, as you can tell that Vinny's defenders have been marked for death.

As much as I disliked Umbrage's posts, I actually liked Titus's. I'd like to give her a chance for now.

It is Tussy's strength as a sour player. I most certainly am not fond of her posting, in spite of how much I liked Rageys. However, my opinion is the same as yours; I wish to give her a chance for the time being.

[Aunt Jemina]

I like how Aunt J says she's on a timer and that she fears the Marvel Scum would kill her soon.

Sonny, deary, a kill source that is very likely not from DC and which we know not to be you took out the only other player to have conviction in Vinny being sweet. They did so last night; there is no reason to assume they will not do so tonight. Perhaps they may consider not doing so if they feared I would receive protection, but I am quite explicitly not someone high on the list of doctor protection targets, especially given the suspicion on me.

Even I haven't figured this one out, except possibly for how amazingly town I am! *radiates townie spendour*

You have in fact been remarkably sweet, deary, but you are now confirmed town. If not for trusting BulbyFenny, then in trusting myself trusting him.

Not fully caught up, but another sweeeeeet result. MS pretty much conf town now. Bulba v likely town now as well. Cabd I'm less sure of. His posts solo seem to have been a lot better than the hydra, maybe he is just making more effort.

If you trust myself to be sweet, trust BulbyFenny to be sweet as well. And if you trust him to be sweet, then by extension trust Cabby and Nally to additionally be sweet.

How dumb can you be to vote for me?
I've led wagons on both scum factions. I didn't even think of joining cws. Unless you think I'm an incredible busser please get your head out of your ass and put me in your solid town reads.

Playing Mephisto's advocate, deary, there is still the significant chance that there is a serial killer present in the game, and you could in fact be that.

However, I am inclined to agree with your assessment in that you are near-certainly town.

However, please do not start the day defending yet another player(slot) who has systematically put themselves in a bad position.

I was not. In fact, I was saying the opposite, in that I agree Tussy is likely sour. However, I feel that even her being sour, we could use more content from her slot. Thus, why I have voted a player who I

also

believe to be a Vinny buddy, and who is additionally showing interactions with Tussy that feel like sour-sour. (Kitty.) This was not a blind vote on my secondary choice. It is not even based on associatives, for they merely augment it. It is off of general play.

I have no doubts I will be voting Tussy at a later date. It is simply too early for us to lynch; the majority of players have yet to even check in with content.

[Aunt Jemina]

Sweet Core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)
11 PeregrineV
23 Cabd
24 Chandra Nalaar
9 Metal Sonic

Sweet As I Will Let Them Be:

4 vezokpiraka
5 Nero Cain
16 mozamis--this is the only read that I feel the need to explain; mozzy's posting has been solidly sweet to me, above all others who have interactions I could call even remotely negative.

Sweet Reads:

22 beastcharizard
7 Josh_B
12 RachMarie--my read here is mainly based off of this old lady's instinct, in that this is what I expect of Rach's sweet-play.

Leftovers:

21 pidgey
14 ZZZX
20 Sharpest-knife-on-tree
25 displaced

Sour Reads:

13 Titus
19 Malakittens

This is the best I have to offer. I hold very little confidence in most of these.

[Aunt Jemina]

What has changed between these posts? I am talking about your read on me of course.

Will u allow me to say why the surprising drop in my read?

Why am I no longer in your sweetcore AJ?

The entire basis of my reads has been shaken up, dearies. It is not so much that my reads on any of you changed as it is my reads on everyone else did and I redefined my standards via moving goalposts.

So I've got a question for you, leash or lynch?

When it comes to a serial killer outted, or the last member of a scumteam that outs themselves, I am a

very

strong advocate of leashing them.

There is just one slight problem, deary.

You're not the last of the Marvel Universe villains.
VOTE: Titus.

I am Lady Deathstrike, Marvel Universe Villian Alliance Rolecop.

Let us begin with this. I know Jason moderator meta. Though he may place two redundant roles in a game (e.g. a cop and a lie detector), he will never place an exact duplicate of one in them. Perhaps I can envision this being possible with mirrored scumteams...except Tussy has claimed a full rolecop. This alone would be enough proof for any who have played a jason game before. However, there is more.

So I've got a question for you, leash or lynch?

This is not the attitude of last-scum. It is the attitude of scum faking last-scum, for it lacks the desperation and the fight to come from them. (Believe me, I speak from experience.) As the last member of a scumteam outting yourself, you do so not to let yourself die, but to fight your hardest to live. Tussy here is giving only a half-hearted performance, neither caving into despair nor putting effort into trying to live, as she does not have the mindset of last-scum.

Tonight, I didn't get a result as I tried to kill. I don't get to kill and use my rolecop.

This solidifies it without any doubt.

Jason

always

allows mafia to perform both the kill and their role

.

It is not simply as last scum. It is a common factor across all his games, as much one as having power roles flip blue and VTs green. A simple check of most jason-modded games' scum quicktopics can reveal this to be true. I have been through his games intimately, thus, I know how he treats his roles. This is not something he would suddenly deviate from when it is such an essential core of his choices as a moderator.

Furthermore, there is the evasion factor. When you are claiming to be last-scum, you do your best to give the town all the information you have available, as it is most beneficial for you to do so. Tussy had to be prompted for results, has stalled to give them, and is not elaborating on the nightkills she has allegedly made.

If I felt that there was beneficial information to be had from red scum faking black scum, I would keep her around. However, this is the perfect way to avoid giving information that is relevant on her scumbuddies, thus, I cannot see the use in keeping her alive when she is a mod-confirmed liar.

[Aunt Jemina]

Redscum killed my target as well.

There is additionally this factor.

You can search any jason game where there is kill overlap.

Said kill overlap is always made obviously so. Tussy is claiming that there was a kill overlap, when there has been none.

You know what Cabd, leash Titus and have her shoot me that way I can prove I'm town and get out of this game.

Furthermore, I am very strongly of the opinion that Kitty is Tussy's scumbuddy. Kitty was quick to jump onto Tussy's wagon, and a scumbuddy would wish to be on the lynch of their scumbuddy for the town credit it would provide. (This is my answer to BulbyFenny's 2900.) This post solidifies it, as it is a plan which will leave Kitty alive and perhaps Tussy alive if people tried leashing her.

Q: What if Titus is gambiting Redscum?

A: WE FUCKING CONTROL REDSCUM'S KILL

Except we do not. Redscum kill who they please. If there's only two kills, Tussy claims that the second kill source isn't her, but rather, a serial killer, and that her kill on the target town selected did not go through. Or perhaps she admits to controlling a kill (regardless of whether it belongs to her or not) and invents reasons for having done so. In either case, this is a gambit in which there is little drawback and much to gain, as it keeps her alive for longer while hiding her scumbuddies from us.

[Aunt Jemina]

If I am redscum (which I am according to AJ), my life is solely at the hands of the true Marvel. There's no way of talking out of things if there is a Marvel scum kill that isn't the target.

Marvel scum likely will not kill you, as it is beneficial for them to have you alive for it serves as a smokescreen for themselves as well. They will similarly not be attempting to lynch you, as that would reveal themselves. If I were Marvel scum, I would kill without thought to your faction, continuing to target those who I pleased to target. It would be largely akin to being a serial killer, and part of playing a long game is to play conservatively...thus, not do the town's work for them by killing you and also not risking revealing oneself via advocating a lynch.

Fortunately, I happen to be town, thus, can do my job and lynch scum.

She's supposing the mod does the same thing every time to accuse me of lying when I have proof of a conftowns role and I've been crumbing it.

Yes, deary. I am supposing the moderator does the same thing every time...because

the moderator has done the same thing every time

. I have

been

sour in his games before. I have seen these roles first-hand with intimate knowledge and experience. Even in jason games I have not played (I have played in every large theme of his since my account's creation), I have read them, and across them all, there is an extraordinarily-high level of consistency...which your claim violates on three separate levels.

Perhaps jason would change one thing about his moderation technique in a new game.

He would not entirely redefine his moderation technique in a new game, and for your claim to be true, that would be required.

I have been the last scum on my scumteam.
I did not out myself because of a wagon on my.
I outted myself because there was a cop guilty on me and I was desperate.
Why not use your fakeclaim? Why claim instantly?

Your claim served an agenda, but not the agenda of a last-scum player. It was made to serve as a distraction. It was made to throw the town off. It was made to prevent the town from gathering useful data. It was made because you are DC scum, and you are looking to make a gambit that you hope will buy your team the time they need to win.

When I was the last scum outted, I provided everything about my scumteam and even paraphrased our mafia conversations. What did fliggy and Squirly say? They had daytalk, so if as you claim you were their scumbuddy, surely, you would be able to talk about their posting. What did Squirly do N1 and why? Surely, you must know her target. Who did you kill N1 and why? These are things that I revealed as scum instantly, to which you have been dodging as much as you can.

Also, if I left something out that Jason would allow (after having played multiple Jason games myself), that is actually evidence I am town, not scum.

Aside from the fact that you explicitly claimed scum and there is no town motive for you to have done so, deary.

Also, AJ, I never panick in my scumgames.

This is not panic from you.

This is a calculated move. Something done out of desperation, perhaps, but not panicked desperation. Merely a Tussy-scum at a distinct disadvantage desperation.

Of course, I'm not claiming town, but a player who is town should at least have considered that possibility.

The possibility of you being what you claim when it violates every experience I have had playing under jason, combined with your evasive maneuvers in your play is zero percent, deary.

You have demonstrated no knowledge of your alleged role, even. You have claimed you did not target Cabby nor BulbyFenny yet have targeted confirmed town. Contrary to what Cabby and BulbyFenny thought, I am reasonably certain that you do not know anything about them. You may have intuitively picked up on aspects of their role, merely from observation. But I strongly feel as if you lack any real role result, as it has not shown.

[Aunt Jemina]

Is there any possibility that the scum are 4v4?

I am of the firm opinion now that it is 4v3. The Marvel roles flipped thusfar have been strong; the DC role that flipped was weaker significantly, to the point where I have trouble envisioning any combination of 3v3 or 4v4 in which the Marvel villains do not hold a significant advantage over the DC invaders.

Furthermore, it is befitting the flavor for the DC invaders to be a larger (but less familiar, thus, individually weaker) threat, as they are invaders from outside the Marvel Universe. Additionally, this fits with jason's moderator meta being fond of asymmetric scumteams. None of these points are new; I raised them yesterday. I am positing it yet once more today, however, because of Tussy's play.

If Tussy only had one scumbuddy remaining, why would she claim scum knowing that the gambit was likely to not work and get herself lynched? (Especially if as I believe, Kitty is a scumbuddy.) It makes

much

more sense for Tussy to be a weaker scum player, and for her to have two scumbuddies that may possess some additional strength. This would necessitate the stronger Marvel villains to possess only three stronger roles.

I have this feeling she is the true last MUVA scum and knows titus is lying and just needed something to tell this to us without outright claiming.

Were I the last Marvel scum, deary, I would play exactly as I described: not bringing attention to it. For me to be the last Marvel scum, you are insinuating that I was unaware Tussy was laying a trap for them and leaped in, exposing myself not only to her faction but also to the town. You would additionally be requiring for me to be playing sub-optimally, in that it is ideal play for the last Marvel to leave Tussy alone and let her serve as a smokescreen for themselves.

However, I am more than happy to spring the trap as town, for I am already living on borrowed time. Her ploy was transparently obvious to myself. I have made it abundantly clear what I have seen from her. These are not things which require me to be sour this game to know. They merely require knowledge attained from me having been sour in previous games. That is all it takes to realize her claim is filled with holes. You need not worry yourself with thoughts of lynching me. Her scumteam is going to nightkill me under the false belief that the knowledge I possess could only be attained by a Marvel player.

If I was red scum, like you insinuate, I am at the mercy of the true Marvel scum. If Marvel scum doesn't kill the leash target, I am lynched.

No, deary. Because you are capable of creating many separate scenarios to help justify "your" kill, or the lack thereof.

I cannot answer that question because it is against the rules.

And you are yet again a confirmed liar for this, deary.

When I was the last scum for my scum faction, I was permitted to paraphrase the contents of my quicktopic, and did so.

You are claiming you cannot because it is against the rules.

However, it is explicitly not, for I have done so before. I of course did not quote the contents of my quicktopic, but I was permitted to paraphrase it when I was claiming, for it was an attempt to help further my wincon.

That being said, how do you know that Jason didn't switch to Private Topics

Until such a time comes as to show that Jason has switched to private topics, I will continue under the assumption that, as with all other consistencies in his moderation, he has not. Jason is not exactly a progressive moderator. (This is something I consider a selling point in his games.) He is very likely to continue doing things as he has done them, until such a time as he has reason to do things differently.

As for why I asked Auntie
here is the game she was the last purple scum in where she helped out town.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29725

Thus why I am a reasonable authority figure on how jason roles operate.

This is not the experience of a player who has been on the outside.
This is the experience of a player who has been on the inside multiple times.

Tussy is DC.

So uh. Bulba, chandra, what are your opinions on mala, since i'm apparently just confbiasing on her?

Unless you are confbiasing her to be town, deary, my opinion is that you are not in fact confbiasing and simply have the correct read on her. She is my strongest sourread aside from Tussy.

[Aunt Jemina]

Aunt J, if DC thought you were Marvel, they would probably avoid nightkilling you at all costs. Just sayin'.

Hmm. I suppose this is a fair point. However, it distinctly depends on who the other members of the faction are, and how much they wish to listen to Tussy's thinly-veiled cries at me being the last Marvel. (Substitute every single cry for me to be DC with me being Marvel. The things she said do not change as a result.) Furthermore, if they believe myself to be Marvel, then they are also under the impression that I am not going to work with them, as my push on Tussy would prove, giving them incentive to get rid of me as I am not helping them yet am serving to hinder them. (This being because I of course am not actually Marvel, thus, any thoughts of myself being such will lead them to the incorrect conclusion, but it is their mistake to make.) I additionally still hold onto my ego, for I wish to see myself as a larger threat than I likely am. >.> <.<

AuntJ, albeit wrong, had some seemingly legitimate associative reads early on.

This is because they have in fact been legitimate reads as I am town. As with Endy, my opinions were formed with what I knew at the time, even if ultimately incorrect. I recognize the need for myself to die eventually. But let us focus on taking out confirmed lying scum (Tussy) before we go chasing after the ghosts of potential scum.

@AJ, Any assumption that requires me to be a weaker scumbuddy is mistaken. I replaced into a boned scumslot.

Though I meant in the sense of roles, I suppose this applies in sense of players as well, given that the second is in direct contradiction with the first half of this statement.

Replacing into a "boned" scumslot, by definition, will make you be a weaker scumbuddy, even if your scum game is remarkably strong.

Furthermore, I would like to additionally point out that in the last jason multiball game, there were two scum claims during the game. One was my own: I was caught by a role, thus, there was no escaping the lynch by play. I gave the town everything I knew, and explained my reads and where they come from when I was scum.

The second was, as mentioned, a scum player being wagoned up: no role result on him. He claimed scum because it was beneficial to his scum faction for him to do so, not out of desperation, but because it served their agenda. (In that case, it was not him claiming to be the serial killer or the smaller faction, but rather, truthfully claiming to be his own faction yet with the knowledge of who the serial killer was. He of course was lying, but it served as bait to out the real serial killer and got town mislynched as a result.) Tussy's claim is not the former; it is the latter. If I have the time, I may pull up the quotations to demonstrate.

I DONT like the way the discussion is going. It is detrimental to actual scum hunting and I believe it will continue to be detrimental so long as Titus is allowed to keep posting.

I made this point already (end of 3014, most of 3018, but mainly 3026), and I choose to emphasize it once more: you are entirely correct. Tussy's claim is a distraction, meant to keep the town from discussing relevant topics that are beneficial to us. If I felt she was the last Marvel scum, I would leash her, but her claim is quite clearly not that of a last scum, but of scum serving to create chaos and division intentionally within us.

[Aunt Jemina]

SHUT THE FUCK UP OR YOU ARE CLAIMING SCUM, LET THE THREAD FUCKING SIT IDLE PEOPLE

My opinion is not quite of this nature, in that I feel there are some productive things that can be discussed, but that there is nothing to be discussed today that is not best discussed tomorrow instead.

[Aunt Jemina]

DC should be somewhere in {AJ, ZZZX, Mozamis}. I highly doubt AJ is DC, though.

Given that I was the cause for the Tussy wagon to reignite when it had begun to fade, and given her insistence on myself being sour, this should go without saying, given DC had daytalk at the time. I am not the type of scum player to destroy the gambit of my scum partner.

I think I wanna look the numbers over again, but if there's another town pr out there with a clear it's an autowin?

The presence of another town PR is nearly guaranteed. However, said power role should only claim if at risk of death or if they have any meaningful information to claim.

Given that said power role would almost assuredly be either a watcher or a tracker, it can be assumed safely that a lack of claimed results therefore means no results are furthering the information base beyond what we already know.

I think the fact that DC didn't jail me last night indicates there may actually only be one left (or the teams are only kinda symmetrical)

With the knowledge that Rach is not DC (outside of godfather, which I shall neither assume nor discard the scenario of), they may simply have chosen to let you live for the simple reasoning of you not being a threat. Most players were assuming a DC within Rach and Kitty; if neither are, then the DC can take out other players they deem threatening.

I will vote when I have the confidence to place a vote, as I need to review my suspicions in light of the information clearing Rach of being DC and Kitty being cleared altogether.

[Aunt Jemina]

Scum standard would indicate that SqG is setting herself up to lynch AuntJ if the town agrees, and a scum flip on AuntJ could be a good indication of why SqG was the target night one.

A problem with this logic, deary, is that if Squirly was setting herself up to lynch me...that would mean I would not be her scumbuddy. Therefore, were I to be scum, it would be with DC. However, if you take a look at my interactions with Tussy, it is abundantly clear that we were not on a team. Thus, lynching me will tell you nothing. (Especially since I will die soon enough. In particular, the faction that picked off pidgey is likely to shoot at someone such as myself. I will not be living long. A lynch on myself is a waste of time that will reveal nothing we do not already know.)

Fuck all four of the flipped scum for not actually posting a reads list we can mine. Totally debating PLing the rest of the players yet to give a list of reads that are not confirmed town~

I thank you for the reminder that I myself require an updated one. I should even be able to separate off of factions at this stage.

...Well this is both incredibly stupid and yet incredibly amusing AT THE SAME TIME~

Indeed. Beasty, bless his heart, is sweet aside from the chance of a serial killer.

As to my wagon, scum can only be in [Moz/Nero] with 85/15 saying it's Moz. Nero had a strong first couple of days and is a town read on the back of that despite fading recently. Moz has avoided taking hard stances in the game, mainly interested in disapproving of wagons from the sidelines and hasnt really pushed any of his own ideas. (Im not sure if he has even had an original suspicion of his own)

I am mostly of this opinion, however, reversing Mozzy and Nero, with an outside chance of Joshy. (This is only a very remote chance and mainly me clinging to the hopes I was not entirely wrong on everything D2.) I am also getting paranoid about Vezzy's later addition to the wagon.

Though I understand the basis for a case against you, this wagon feels

off

. Tussy's slot had not only condemning interactions, but also her own play and a guilty result. The case against you is mainly on weaker interactions, and vaguely goes against what I am observing from your play. Yet in spite of this difference, the wagons have both formed with an approximately equal ease. Though I can see you flipping sour, I do not believe you to be scum.

It is on that note that I should point out I do not think the mozzy wagon is going to give us what we desire, and pursuing it over alternative options will be an error.

Vote: Nero Cain.

I am not sure about this lynch, but I feel the option is worth exploring.

[Aunt Jemina]

Is it abundantly clear? I mean your first reaction was to defend him.

My first reaction to Tussy was that she was sour. I continued pushing this. I pushed the wagon even when others were backing down. Were I her scumbuddy, that is the last thing I would have done. In fact, it is quite likely Tussy's scumbuddy was on the initial wagon but jumped off once she made her claim. You are positing that I deliberately chose to reveal information that few aside from myself would be privy to (none of them being town), for the sake of bussing my scumbuddy. You do not need to be familiar with my distaste towards bussing (meta) to be aware of how extraordinarily stupid a suggestion that is.

Like you did Viomi.

Yes, I defended Vinny. Were that to be a definitive scumtell, Endy would have flipped sour.

He didn't. I will not. Because we were both town and both had come to the same conclusion: Vinny being sweet. Vinny was at the bottom of my sweet core list, and though I was defending him, one fact about my defense was that it was very largely driven by the conviction of BulbyFenny (and yourself) being sour. There is a reason I feel my time in this game is limited. I will die by nightkill sooner rather than later. I can guarantee it to you. Aside from it matching a kill pattern, there is also the fact that they can get rid of me when I do pose a threat.

A serial Killer?

Yes, deary. It is a vital distinction to be made.
There are players this game who could be sour yet do not have bad interactions with one scumteam.
There are players this game who could be sour yet do not have bad interactions with either scumteam.
There are players this game who I see as sweet lacking bad interactions with one scumteam.
There are players this game who I see as sweet lacking bad interactions with either scumteam.

I am more familiar with jason moderator meta than you are. There is a possibility of a serial killer in the game. To say otherwise is ignorance. I am not saying there is a serial killer in the game. Nor am I positing that if there was one, beasty would be a candidate. I am simply stating he is not groupscum. And lacking the confirmed presence of a serial killer, that makes him far more likely to be town.

Your issue with this is what, exactly?

Do you know what you just said there? How do differentiate Sour, from Scum?

I am perfectly aware of what I said: I said I did not like the ceddy wagon, nor the mozzy wagon. I am willing to take the risk that if I am wrong it will further look suspicious on my slot. Because I hold no fear of speaking my mind, and that is what this old lady's instincts are saying.

I have held Nero as sweet for most of the game. However, given multiball and his content on later days, I am thinking very strongly he may be sour. Though it is possible mozzy is sour, more than a fair number of players, I feel he is not. When it comes to your slot, I am mostly thinking town, but there are posting which make me paranoid, among them being some of your pushes this day. Vezzy's stances have been sketchy as well.

As for Sour/Scum, they are essentially synonymous.

Yeah, I don't buy this.

Then what is

your

read on Nero, deary?

[Aunt Jemina]

Hmm.

I change my mind.

Mozzy may very well may be sour.

Unvote.

I am not voting for I am not confident of this and the wagon is of significant size already. I feel as if even were he sour, it will be beneficial to give time for all players to come and speak their peace. (For instance, mine includes a reads list. I would much prefer to have one up before day's end.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Dearies, we will be lynching mozzy this game day.

That does not mean we should lynch him this real-life day.

I have seen and been in multiple games in which quicklynches, regardless of the alignment of the quicklynched individual, harm the town.

It is especially damaging when there exists overconfidence from previous successes. We have that perfect lynch record. A mozzy lynch is a fairly decent bet to maintain it. However, we need to spend some time organizing so that we continue that trend, rather than recklessly lynching blindly in arrogance.

[Aunt Jemina]

There is an inherent danger in follow the cop, Nally, deary.

You should not be young enough to not be aware of what that flaw may be.

I will join the mozzy wagon when everyone (myself included) has had the chance to say their thoughts.

[Aunt Jemina]

Yes, yes, I know, but I also think my reads are pretty good, so I'm just super not worried.

Mind refreshing me as to what they are?

He's essentially throwing a hissy fit about us closing all those lynch options for him. What town in their right mind starts crying about having too many conf. town?

The type that is the leading candidate for being mislynched.

Flailing is not by itself indicative of a player's alignment. I do not currently believe ceddy's sour. (Bulby, deary, do you honestly feel as if a sour player would attack confirmed town which are known to be confirmed town universally? It is a losing battle; I am much inclined to think they would focus elsewhere.) I do however agree mozzy is sour. I see the logic behind targeting another person for the lynch that is not mozzy, but it fails to account for possibilities such as ceddy being sweet and the scumteams not being mirrored. (In particular, the point about the lack of jailkeeping is an important one. If the scumteams are not mirrored, it is fully possible that there exists two DC players that are goons.)

[Aunt Jemina]

I could buy an AJ scum.

There is nobody here who could not. But I assure you, my death will be by nightkill. Not via lynch. It has not happened yet, but it is guaranteed to happen if not sooner then later. This is not arrogance. Simply facts. I will not live much longer. Be it one kill source or the other, my death is assured. It is simply a matter of when they choose to time it.

Aunt Jemina:

I found it intersting that she was town-reading me when everyone wasn't and suspected whiteknighting. Then her sudden turn with me and a few others suddenly going down is intersting. Could she be prepering a mislynch she can use if things go wrong?

The change in read is explained by the difference between day two and day three, deary. On day two, I was operating under my own reads with full confidence in them. After Vinny's flip and BulbyFenny becoming confirmed town, my confidence in myself was shattered. Thus, most of my reads changed.

You were placed into a leftovers pile, neither sour nor sweet. There you have remained, though I find your posting here to ever so slightly be sweet to this old lady's instincts.

He's not attacking the investigative roles, AJ. He's attacking their clears.

And yet, multiple players have reached the conclusion that there exists the possibility of roles such as a Godfather, and players have been doubting the accuracy of your reads in addition to Nally's. They cannot all be sour. Why is ceddy's doubt any more scum-motivated than theirs? It is not. In fact, it is the opposite.

As scum pressured, your best option is to push among the players not cleared. It will not be a permanent solution, but it will keep you alive longer. As town pressured, you freak out and try to find every possible explanation, including that conftown is not actually confirmed town.

I will not say for absolute certainty that ceddy is sweet. I do not have the ability to muster such confidence. I will say that I am willing to take the fallout if ceddy turned out not to be sweet, for that is what I feel he is.

AJ, why is displaced a mislynch?

Though I vaguely see the interaction tells players are using for him, I do not buy their validity. Aside from those interactive tells, why is ceddy sour? What I have seen from ceddy matches what I know of his sweet-game. (Admittedly my exposure has not been the greatest, but I have seen him a fair amount.) He raises solid points both on the offense and defense. I have liked his approach to analysis, even if not agreeing with all his conclusions.

She had me in her "sweet, sugary core" (very strong town?) for most of the game, until the wagon on me formed. Then she lept aboard in pretty quickly.

On the contrary, see above about Zexxy. You left the town core not because of a wagon on you, but because the reasoning I had for placing you there had shattered, along-side my confidence. It has been your continued posting that has pushed you into sour.

I will vote as soon as I have compiled my thoughts.

[Aunt Jemina]

Sweet Core:

10 BulbaFenix (Bulbazak/Fenix Hydra)
24 Chandra Nalaar
23 Cabd
11 PeregrineV
19 Malakittens?

Neither Marvel nor DC:

(But not confirmed town)
22 beastcharizard
7 Josh_B

Not DC:

12 RachMarie--I feel while confirmed not DC (outside of being a godfather), Rach is in fact sweet anyway, thus, not a sour-read.

Leftovers:

25 displaced--though I see the interactions that vaguely incriminate him, as discussed, I do not believe in them, and feel him more likely sweet overall.
14 ZZZX--this old lady's instincts are saying sweet.
20 Sharpest-knife-on-tree
4 vezokpiraka

Sour Reads:

16 mozamis
5 Nero Cain

I am currently struggling with a minor illness, thus, this is the best I can give.

VOTE: mozamis.

[Aunt Jemina]

Or he could have just hidden behind SKOT.

Given that the kill flavors are identical for BulbyFenny and Kotty, it is a safe assumption that they hid there. It is possible that they hid behind the faction that killed Kotty, but this explanation is simpler.

How in the everloving fuck did you know there was a serial killer?

Same way I know there is two weaker DC scum left and one stronger Marvel scum left, deary:

Because I was in Dr. Who. I have been speculating about the existence of a serial killer ever since talk of mutiball existed, even on day one. And after it was confirmed, I very largely took it for granted, albeit growing progressively more doubtful with only two kill flavors appearing.

Tell me, deary.

How would I know there was a serial killer if I was scum?

It was a simple deduction, as was concluding Tussy was DC scum. You need not be scum to have my knowledge. You merely need experience, of which I have plenty, and a sharp mind to aid the process. (If you had an idea of who my other account was, then I can near-guarantee you that you would not ask this question and would take it for granted I make these theories as town. Alas, the consequences of playing under this name and me valuing anonymity mean that given the choice between revealing for your understanding or getting lynched to protect it, I will be forced to take the latter option. Simply trust in my words that I know my game design, especially jason's.)

Why on earth would anyone shoot SKOT instead of someone who's actually been cleared? Godfathers?

Given you're alive, this would be a safe assumption, yes. I would wager there is a godfather on one team and a ninja on the other. (Tussy's tracker-hunting looks as if she was trying to get a reaction from that type of PR, which is more likely to come from a faction that possesses a ninja.)

Bulba's clears are 100% clear.

This is not to be taken for granted without moderator confirmation, deary.

It is a reasonably safe conclusion that I find more probable than not, but it is not a certainty until we get clarification from jason, deary. There is a school of thought that godfathers show up as innocent to all investigative roles, and hiders can be classified as an investigative role. I bring this up for one very important reason: I know for a fact jason falls under this line of thought. The godfather in Dr. Who was not only immune to cops, but also to trackers and watchers, doubling as a ninja. (I doubt that role would exist this game given its strength, thus why I think it was split in half.) Not only that, but he classified a Godfather saying "I am town" as a true statement to a lie detector.

Both of these mean we must first ask this:

Mod: If a hider hides behind a godfather, will they die?

This being said, you were his N2 clear and I have no doubt in that. Cabby was his N1 clear and though not absolutely confirmed, has appeared more sweet than sour to me. I will await an answer from the moderator before giving my thoughts about Kitty.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hmm. It would seem I was mistaken; I did not reference serial killers on day one. It was only after the confirmation of multiball that I provided my reasoning. It begins here.

It should be noted about moderator meta that the daykiller is almost certainly a vigilante. Kill flavors are consistent for factions, thus the Squirly and Thaddy kills come from sources different from the Sonny slot's shots. It should also be noted that Jason has a heavy tendency to favor asymmetric scumteams: a larger 4p scumteam that is weaker vs. a smaller 3p scumteam that is stronger. Given the flips have been Marvel Villains and the flavor is invaders from a universe outside of Marvel, and also given that both flipped Marvel Villains have been power roles, it is an assurance that the Marvel Villains are a scumteam of three (down to one), against a scumteam of four that has yet to be identified.

It is also possible that we have a serial killer in addition to the vigilante, and that there was a kill not listed last night that failed.

A quick skim of my iso (I am sure there are many more mentions not caught) shows these as well.

Spoiler: Not as important

Sour Reads:

23 UnfriendlyNeighbors (Mac/Cabd Hydra)

--this is admittedly a bit of a weaker read, based mainly off of this old lady's instinct. I would not know which faction of scum they could belong to. It could be either, or it could even be serial killer, but I feel as if they are not town. I simply do not know how.

I think I'm looking at a lynch pool of {vezok, PV, USBslot, beast} right now. I should flip through those players again.

There is an absolute minimum of five scum left in the game right now, with the possibility of six. (One Marvel Villain, a serial killer, and four of the unidentified faction.) So even if your list is correct, you need one more, and I would heavily recommend a second.

I actually think her lynch will give us a lot of information. There are some great associatives in connection with her.

Name them. What do we get from a Vinny town-flip? What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain? (And if you try to speculate four Marvel Villains, my vote never leaves you for the entirety of the game.) What do we get if Vinny flips serial killer? What do we get if Vinny flips the currently-unrevealed mafia faction?
If you do not have an answer for each (although there is admittedly overlap), then you're lying. (Rather, telling the truth, from a specific perspective: that of a scum player who already knows more.)

I don't think 3-3-1-X is completely out of the question either, but if there's an SK it's almost certainly Metal Sonic.

No, deary. Sonny's shots do not come from a serial killer. Aside from play making it unlikely (lashy is no Tammy pressured to claim; he claimed willingly and without hesitation as a newer player), setups jason have run since then have nearly-always possessed a dayvig,

especially

in multiball.

(This one doesn't really even count, as it is defending against Sonny being a serial killer rather than speculating on a serial killer.)

What do we get if Vinny flips last Marvel Villain?

1 less NK.

Do not be a smartass, deary. You know that I meant what information would be gained. You specifically said that a Vinny lynch would generate great associatives. When I questioned you on what they are, you give this. For someone claiming it would gain information, you seem to be awfully hesitant to say what that information would be.
The most productive answer you gave was for the serial killer question...

when the presence of a serial killer is not even confirmed, and was asked more as a hypothetical

. Thus, your best answer was for the least-relevant and least-probable scenario.

We think Viomi and ZZZX are on the other scum team.

Odd that both yourself and Joshy have made this claim. I am finding it a far more likely hypothesis that you are scum together and legitimately scumreading Vinny and Zexxy, but think them to be the marvel villain and a serial killer.

(I would like to note that I have added emphasis here.)

I am increasingly growing into the mindset that beasty is in fact sour, but is alone (perhaps a serial killer), and that I should pursue a BulbyFenny/Joshy/Grinny/Kitty team with vezzy as the other lone scum.

The vig happens to be the player with the strongest townread on Zexxy, deary. You can always request the scum (or perhaps a serial killer) take him out, but he is not dying by town hands. Least of all while I still draw breath.

EBWOP:

Ragey is also moving down into the waffles zone, out of concern that he may be a serial killer. I do not feel as if he is group scum. If a serial killer were to exist, it is a strong possibility that he could be it, given his play thusfar this game. Yet this is something to not be concerned about unless the existence of a serial killer has been proven.

How dumb can you be to vote for me?
I've led wagons on both scum factions. I didn't even think of joining cws. Unless you think I'm an incredible busser please get your head out of your ass and put me in your solid town reads.

Playing Mephisto's advocate, deary, there is still the significant chance that there is a serial killer present in the game, and you could in fact be that.

(I would like to add that playing devil's advocate means bringing up a possibility that is from an alternative point of view, usually not in line with that of the one saying those words.)

These ones are not even placing focus on the existence of a serial killer. Merely addressing the possibility.

When it comes to a serial killer outted, or the last member of a scumteam that outs themselves, I am a

very

strong advocate of leashing them.

Redscum kill who they please. If there's only two kills, Tussy claims that the second kill source isn't her, but rather, a serial killer, and that her kill on the target town selected did not go through. Or perhaps she admits to controlling a kill (regardless of whether it belongs to her or not) and invents reasons for having done so. In either case, this is a gambit in which there is little drawback and much to gain, as it keeps her alive for longer while hiding her scumbuddies from us.

If I am redscum (which I am according to AJ), my life is solely at the hands of the true Marvel. There's no way of talking out of things if there is a Marvel scum kill that isn't the target.

Marvel scum likely will not kill you, as it is beneficial for them to have you alive for it serves as a smokescreen for themselves as well. They will similarly not be attempting to lynch you, as that would reveal themselves. If I were Marvel scum, I would kill without thought to your faction, continuing to target those who I pleased to target. It would be largely akin to being a serial killer, and part of playing a long game is to play conservatively...thus, not do the town's work for them by killing you and also not risking revealing oneself via advocating a lynch.
Fortunately, I happen to be town, thus, can do my job and lynch scum.

I would like to additionally point out that in the last jason multiball game, there were two scum claims during the game. One was my own: I was caught by a role, thus, there was no escaping the lynch by play. I gave the town everything I knew, and explained my reads and where they come from when I was scum.

The second was, as mentioned, a scum player being wagoned up: no role result on him. He claimed scum because it was beneficial to his scum faction for him to do so, not out of desperation, but because it served their agenda. (In that case, it was not him claiming to be the serial killer or the smaller faction, but rather, truthfully claiming to be his own faction yet with the knowledge of who the serial killer was. He of course was lying, but it served as bait to out the real serial killer and got town mislynched as a result.) Tussy's claim is not the former; it is the latter. If I have the time, I may pull up the quotations to demonstrate.

These also do not even count because they are all talking theory behind serial killers. Of which, I have intimate exposure to.

Beasty, bless his heart, is sweet aside from the chance of a serial killer.

A serial Killer?

Yes, deary. It is a vital distinction to be made.
There are players this game who could be sour yet do not have bad interactions with one scumteam.
There are players this game who could be sour yet do not have bad interactions with either scumteam.
There are players this game who I see as sweet lacking bad interactions with one scumteam.
There are players this game who I see as sweet lacking bad interactions with either scumteam.

I am more familiar with jason moderator meta than you are.

There is a possibility of a serial killer in the game

. To say otherwise is ignorance.

I am not saying there is a serial killer in the game

. Nor am I positing that if there was one, beasty would be a candidate. I am simply stating he is not groupscum. And lacking the confirmed presence of a serial killer, that makes him far more likely to be town.

Note that at this point, it has been continuously fading. It started out as near-certainty. It was reduced to probability. It became a mere possibility by this point in the game. I was beginning to think it a severe improbability, even, as we continued to have time and time again a mere two kills. This is not the progression of someone who knows a serial killer exists. It is the progression of a sweet player who is a bit cautious and slow to jump towards conclusions prematurely.

But there are 2 scum teams. So there cannot be a sk. Usually it is only 1 scum team and 1 sk, or just 2 scum teams

Jason's last game had two scumteams, a vig, and a serial killer. It is not impossible he did the same this game. Quite the opposite, it is incredibly probable. There are certainly two scumteams, so the existence of a serial killer is not a given, but it is still something more likely than unlikely.

I'm seeing others say its 3 on one team and 4 on the other team, but is 4 and 4 an option?

It is not.

What do you guys think about a third faction?

A serial killer is not only possible, but probable, however, its existence is not yet proven and thus, not worth worrying about at this time. If there is a serial killer, it is a 4-3-1-17 game; if there is not, it is a 4-3-18 game.

Encryptor and JailKeeper are strong roles?

Incredibly. This is especially true if the final Marvel Villain is also a strong power role. Last time I was in a jason game like this, I was a member of the smaller scumteam, and our powers were a Godfather (that was also a Ninja), Watcher, and Roleblocker (with free daychat), if this old lady's memory holds. Having daychat and a roleblock/doctor makes them already strong.

Do you see three nightkills? I sure don't.

Nightkills can and often will fail, deary. What is important is flavor behind kills. Each faction will always have the same kill flavor. The vig kill will not differ between day or night. A serial killer flavor will be kept consistent. A mafia team's kill flavor will always be the same. "Died of multiple wounds" will always be death from multiple sources. A serial killer in the game is quite possible if one kill source did not succeed. If another flavor (that is not "died of multiple wounds") appears night two, then we have confirmation even if there are the same or reduced numbers of nightkills. Thus, something to keep an eye on, but not something to worry about until after it has been confirmed.

Josh b I THINK 4v4vtown is unbalanced, probably 3v3vtown from what ive seen in jason games.

No, it is 4v3, chance of 4v3v1.

#

modmeta.

4 vs 3. Ok. It doesn't change the possibility that MUVA is the team of 4.

The three are going to be the marvel villains not only off of roles, but off of flavor. The marvel villains are a part of the marvel universe. This game's flavor is specifically about invaders from outside the universe, which are almost assuredly the unflipped scumteam. Jason isn't going to make the larger scumteam be marvel villains and have the smaller scumteam be from outside. It is similar to Dr. Who; the Time Lords are not nearly as villainous as Daleks, thus, were smaller and more powerful.

I was there to witness the balance. I know my Jason mod meta better than anyone else. There are four unflipped of one scumteam, and one marvel villain left.

I don't think MS' shots clear him and I don't think that his claiming clears him. Mod meta

might

make him less likely to be an sk but a 3v3v19 game seems townsided and I'm not sold on the 3 and 4 man scum teams.

Alright, then, deary. Sonny is town for a combination of factors.

• Sonny's second shot, though similar to lashy's in that it was impulsive, showed that he was not saving onto it to make a play as scum. He shot when pressured to shoot, and that is a reaction more indicative of town (or at worst a serial killer).
  
• Recent moderator meta
  strongly
  favors day shooters being town-aligned in jason games.
  
• That same moderator meta specifies that the day shooter being town-aligned is in-flavor a bit morally ambiguous. Last game, The Master was the day-vigilante; this game, Sonny's claim is of a similar vein.
  
• If another source of kills shows up, it confirms that the game possesses two scum, a serial killer, and a vigilante. A town vig seeing Sonny having claimed would have either shot Sonny or been heavily suspicious of him; that has not happened. Thus, if a third source of kills appears during the night, they belong to a serial killer and both mafia factions, with the day-killer being the vigilante.

These serve as excellent posts showing my reasons for having brought a serial killer up.

If you are going to attempt to lynch me for being too smart, that is your error. If you want to lynch scum, then start looking for actual scum. Do tell me another factor:

If I am scum, what good does bringing up the possible existence of a serial killer do me if I know one to be present?

It invokes the precise reaction that players are giving me--suspicion. It holds no benefit, as the paranoia generated is minimal if existing at all, and I get no town credit for having said such. If you think me remotely competent (one need merely look at my scum games to confirm that I am; my scumteam earned a scummie nomination for good cause), it is required that you think of my play as going through the risk analysis for my actions. Consistently bringing up the possibility of a serial killer is likely to

draw the attention of the serial killer

, in a very bad way. If the serial killer flips, it will draw the attention of the town. Name the benefit in me having said as much, for I see nothing short of "maybe for the wifom?" providing so much as a possible (yet alone, plausible) answer.

Whereas a player who has been playing to a town wincon has every reason to mention it. I have firmly believed myself to be a target for nightkills since the very beginning of the game, and thus, have been unafraid to speak my mind. It draws attention from the serial killer, which would cause them to nightkill me over players who are confirmed town. It additionally allows the town to heed my warning were I to suddenly die, and hold caution, paying attention to what I have said so that they are able to realize I may have been correct.

Now, if you think me scum off of my play rather than my intelligence, then present a case. I will do my best to put your concerns at ease. If you think me sour after even that, then I may claim to hasten the speed of my death. But you are making a

severe

mistake if you continue pushing this line of inquiry. I will die along with other confirmed town players in due time. You have my word on that. The scum cannot let me live if they wish to win.

[Aunt Jemina]

There have been visibly two kill methods all game.
You have been aware of this fact.
Therefore I am unable to believe that you leaped to the conclusion there was an SK without having any basis. It is simply illogical.

And again. Were I scum, there is only a 33% chance I would be aware of a serial killer's confirmed existence come D2. If I were to belong to either of the factions that killed successfully, then I would be unaware the entire time.

If you read the quotes I have brought up, they demonstrate my basis:

extensive

moderator meta exposure, along with much experience in the realm of setup design. I know jason as a moderator intimately. I know how he designs his setups. DC Universe had two scumteams and a serial killer. Dr. Who had two scumteams and a serial killer. You say that I had no logical basis. But I had past experience teaching me I was correct. And as it turned out, I was.

Sometimes, you meet a player who is simply that knowledgeable and skilled. Sometimes, you meet a player whose uncannily-good accuracy was in fact simply their natural skill. And if you refuse to trust me, then I do swear, I will be vindicated when you realize your error and that what I said was true the whole time. I have played to a town wincon, not a scum wincon. The knowledge I impart comes not from a sour player, but from a skilled old lady that has more experience than any player here. Were you to successfully lynch me, tomorrow you would end up likely with 9 alive, 3 of them scum, and most probably with no possible leads: with the potential of two kills, effectively lylo.

This is something that requires trust, I am quite aware. But you can trust my deductive skills to not come from a sinister source.

I guess I wouldn't be *completely* uncomfortable with unvoting you with the understanding that you not be allowed to live to lylo under any circumstances, MAYBE.

Have you missed the part where I have made it explicit that scum cannot afford to let me live until lylo? Particularly true now, the day before potential lylo. (I will treat the game as possessing two DC scum for caution's sake.)

And I've thought you had a weird edge to your posts, like, literally all game, but I could never actually explain it.

This has been as mentioned a deliberate effort on my part to maintain a more reserved posting style. As with my anonymity, I value it more than I value my life. This is a principle not worth compromising, as it violates the entire reason I have taken to this style.

But you're so god damn scummy :/

Aside from the deliberate alteration to my naturally-aggressive playstyle (which you may have perhaps caught a glimpse of on day two to my shame) into a more reserved cautious one (an alteration you can observe in almost all my completed games), I have yet to remember a reason presented for me to be scummy. I cannot defend against an accusation that I know not the source of.

[Aunt Jemina]

Have you missed the part where I have made it explicit that scum cannot afford to let me live until lylo? Particularly true now, the day before potential lylo. (I will treat the game as possessing two DC scum for caution's sake.)

You keep saying this but I still don't know what it means

Then you are blind, deary, whereas I can see clearly. I may not have found many scum with my scumhunting, but I assure you that if I am left alive, I will find scum.

Someone besides AuntJ knows why there has only been one Scum kill up to this point, or she's Scum.

FoS: Josh_B

.
I get the distinct impression that you slipped it being you, deary. I do not know what source of kill has not appeared throughout the game. You, however, seem to be under the distinct impression that it was not the serial killer's, when no-killing as a serial killer is a viable strategy. (Not so much for a scumteam.) Do correct me if I am mistaken, but in my eyes "only been one scum kill up to this point" strongly implies to me that you think that one scumteam is the disappeared, and that mozzy was the executed. What leads you to that conclusion?

This would be a vote if not for the fact that I am quite aware of players being able to make unusual deductions. So explain yourself while you're still here.

Aunt J, who is actually scum? You are encouraged to choose vezok, displaced, PV, and/or beast.

I am working on figuring this out myself, deary. However, do note that Grinny is confirmed town. Thus, is not a candidate for lynching. Behind you, he is the second-most-confirmed player on the list.

Another one of my specialties is to compile a list of roles, their actions, and to determine what is a probability from this. I am in the process of doing so as we speak. It will take into account the claims we have had thusfar, and I will be able to work much better once I have my facts laid out. I should also note that thanks to the probability of a godfather, I will in fact be working additionally off of scumhunting to augment my list. This strategy has proven highly effective at winning games for me (albeit mostly under alternative names), so give me about a day to work through the numbers. This is not an exact science, but it is still highly methodical.

[Aunt Jemina]

Players Confirmed by BulbyFenny:

24 Chandra Nalaar
23 Cabd
19 Malakittens

In order of how confirmed they are, since until I get an answer from the mod, I am assuming that godfathers will not cause the death of a hider.

Players Confirmed by Nally:

14 ZZZX
12 RachMarie

With the same rules applying. (Side-note, Nally: when isoing you, I found mentions of serial killers in your D2 iso as well.) Nally claimed first investigation was useless, and was on Squirly.

Confirmed through Other Methods:

11 PeregrineV (Vinny's result on him)

Not Confirmed Town by Actions:

22 beastcharizard
25 displaced
4 vezokpiraka
5 Nero Cain
7 Josh_B

These are approximately sorted from being most-town to least-town in my eyes at the moment. However, note that my not-confirmed list is not precisely my scum list, as this has not yet been completed. I am in need of additional referencing. In particular,

• Cabby not remembering Grinny was confirmed town and pressuring him to claim first is rather distressing to me, given that his own stance is that he claims near-last because he is confirmed town. His action caused another confirmed town to claim first.
  
• I need an answer from the moderator on whether hiders will die behind a godfather or not.
  
• If they do not, then I need an additional look at Kitty, for she is a suspect of mine aside from the result.
  
• I also need to check with the moderator on the chance (however remote it may seem) of a roleblocker and how it would interact with a hider. (I find the role doubtful to exist, but it cannot be ruled out without thought given to the possibility however remote it may be. I feel it does not exist, but if nothing else this need be done as a formality.)
  
• Though I overall believe Rach to be town, I wish to check her iso for confirmation.
  
• Though Joshy is currently listed at the bottom of my list, it would be more accurate to say of all those on the list, he is the one I have the most need to focus on clarifying my read on. He may easily jump to the top of the list after review and he answers my concerns.
  
• Beasty has a place as high as he does in part because of the slip and in part because of interactions with the slot. I sincerely doubt that he is sour.
  
• Vezzy is a null read, one which I am in desperate need of clarification.
  
• Nero is the closest thing to a proper suspect that I possess.

It is on that note that I will

Vote: Nero Cain.

Though I will provide elaboration on request, it should be noted that as the above makes clear, my analysis is not yet remotely complete.

Mod: if a roleblocker roleblocks a hider, does the hide get blocked?

[Aunt Jemina]

Aunt J, you really shouldn't be droning on about how much of a town powerhouse you are this game given how fucking terrible you were until my confirmed town status along with bulba's was waved in your face repeatedly and you were FORCED to re-evaluate.

I made a mistake. It was surprising, as I am not accustomed to making mistakes with this style on that magnitude. (It should be noted that in hindsight, a fair amount of my day two play was in fact progressively slipping into my more natural impulsive style of play. However, though hints of it certainly existed increasingly strongly, the fact remains that I was still in this more logical playstyle overall and made such a blunder.) It was a shock.

However, since then, my accuracy has improved. Many of the players I have called town flipped as such, and I helped drive the Tussy wagon through at great risk to myself, additionally helping to lynch mozzy. (I was hoping for a groupscum flip myself, but the vindication at the revelation of a serial killer was enough to compensate.) I will not be letting myself continue to make the same mistakes. Because I am in fact a town powerhouse this game, even if I have not been as much of use as I had anticipated.

What you see before you is not the final outcome.

It is merely my warm-up.

[Aunt Jemina]

I would like it to be known that I like Cephir better on this account.

I must say that I quite agree. Cephy is a much more enjoyable player as Nally to myself than as Cephy. (I suppose that can be attributed to having more fun as an alt. I know that in my personal experience, I enjoy playing on alt-games more than I do playing main-games.)

I imagine the playstyle change I attempted was the fun part. It actually kind of worked.

Indeed. This is one reason why I most certainly enjoy the more logical approach I have when playing like this rather than as my other name, who is most certainly not a pillar of logic.

This is me being 150% confirmed town now, so aunt J can go weep in the corner.

No, it's a mere 100% because jason did not answer the question about roleblockers and hiders.

(I assure you, I weep only tears of joy that no paranoia exists. This is particularly helpful with Kitty. They are not the type of tears to hide; I will proudly display the water running down my cheeks from happiness that my job got much easier than I was fearing it would be.)

Originally I FoS'd you when you started saying that PerV, BulbaFenix, and me were on the same scum team together. I tried to reach out to you, I tried to defend myself, I even sent you a sweet lovely song for you to think about. None of it worked.

Until day three, when it did. You are not confirmed town, thus I do need to look over your posting. However, that being said, I am increasingly convinced you are sweet. You have dipped back below the line at times (including above) out of paranoia, but have continued to exit once I place my fears at rest. However, since I doubt I will survive tonight, I need to get the best reads in the game so far, and thus, cannot afford to overlook any minute detail that may mean the difference between victory and defeat for the town.

I think Moz may have been not killing.

If so, why did you say "only one scum kill"? If mozzy were the one no-killing, then there

would

be two scum killing: the executed and the disappeared. The only way for only one scum kill is if the disappeared flavor (which has continued after mozzy's death) is scum and the executed is mozzy's. This is the crux of the issue I had with your posting.

But if he wasn't killing, what led you to FoS an SK over and over again.

I am not overly fond of repeating myself, but it was past experience with jason-modded games. He is incredibly fond of serial killers and has them in nearly every game of his. It turned out I was correct, did it not? Thus, I had

every

reason to 'FoS' a serial killer.

There was no third kill, the whole game.

And on each sequential day, my faith in the moderator meta lessened. On day two, it was incredibly strong, as one missing kill was not only a possibility, but a probability. On day three, it had weakened, as the continued absence of additional kills lessened my confidence, which additionally had lowered thanks to the ending of day two. By the time of day four, I was merely clinging to the possibility I was correct. This progression is quite evident if you iso me.

It turned out that I should not have doubted myself, but it is undeniable that I was in fact doing precisely that: losing my belief in this idea that I had held ever since the revelation of multiball. You are quite correct: at some point, I should have let go of the idea. But what you're failing to realize is that slowly, I was doing so. It was more my stubbornness and clinging to hope of my competence that maintained that failing faith.

How am I still scum to you and why are you holding on to this so hard?

Because this old lady is stupidly persistent with her nagging, and cannot fully accept she was wrong so easily. Yoda's advice might be sound, but in practice one can never truly train themselves to let go so easily. I am trying. I am analyzing. You are less-likely sour than nearly every other non-confirmed player. But I cannot blindly let you go, just as I know I cannot stubbornly hold onto you. For I feel it is my responsibility to see the truth.

Sometimes, Josh, I wonder if we're reading the same thread.

I will admit his viewpoint is highly-unusual, but it is possible to understand with some effort.

Guessing that we have an sk in the game isn't horrible but...

It is also possible that we have a serial killer in addition to the vigilante, and that there was a

kill not listed last night that failed.

That doesn't make a ton of sense to be coming from town.

Oh, really?

Occam's razor, deary. Which is simpler: there are three killing factions and one faction's kill has failed to the various different methods a kill can fail (I can see at least four: Squirly roleblocking the kill, the killer targeting Squirly's jailkeep, a kill targeting BulbyFenny as they hide, and Kotty's protection; at the time, the possibility of a roleblocker also existed adding that to the list), or one source of kills deliberately chose not to kill?

One thought process has multiple different explanations that lead to a highly-probable outcome. The other requires a convoluted thought process that necessitates the abstaining party to forfeit one of their most valued assets for minimal to no gain. And these are the only two explanations with a serial killer, as there was no kill overlap. (Jason has a very distinct method for kill overlaps.)

It makes perfect sense coming from town to assume a failed kill. What doesn't make sense from town is to assume a deliberate choice to not kill.

My problem at this point is that I basically think everyone is town.

It is certainly true that every player has their strengths and weaknesses, but it will help to actually begin the processing and run through what those strengths and weaknesses may be, thus making it easier to analyze. My process at the moment is currently working along these lines, as there is a decent amount of information to scrutinize.

We have yourself, Cabby, and Kitty as 100% confirmed town and Grinny as 99% confirmed town thanks to the Vinny result on him. It will be guaranteed at least three of you will live to see day six, and thus, guaranteed at least one of you will live to see day seven, if going by the worst-case scenarios of no scum factions being eliminated, no crosskills, and no overlapping kills. (All of which are distinctly possible. And obviously, we are aiming for dead scum.) Though this is plenty to get us close to a guaranteed win, it is not enough to secure one.

I sincerely doubt we can 100% nail down the game today. However, our aim should be to get it close enough that we cannot lose. These things require careful analysis and number crunching, but the more we do, the better the results will be. Ultimately, I feel like our final conclusions for today will never be definitive, and merely be a series of probabilities, in that we will make our decisions off of the players we are most comfortable placing trust in their town alignment and faith in their competence.

Sound like a plan, deary?

[Aunt Jemina]

PV I'm thinking it might be that each individual player on mafia teams has their own kill flavor like how Vi does it.

Incorrect. Jason has factional flavors. Those factional flavors are consistent. Each faction uses the same kill flavor each time, regardless of who is performing it.

There's your answer. One scum left.

No, deary. Look at the strength of the DC roles flipped. Two 2x roles and an encryptor, versus an encryptor, a jailkeeper, and some sort of ninja role. This does not feel like an even balance. DC needs another goon; I feel they are faking death. As for how I know the remaining Marvel to be a ninja, that deduction should be rather obvious. (If it is not, then I will walk you through it. The logic is not hard to figure out. The kill last night was not DC. This conclusion should be obvious for anyone paying attention to DC's roles. It also makes sense for the faction with ninja kills to target high-caliber players that likely have their kills stopped, thus explaining the failures there.)

You could not have missed that I have been breadcrumbing my role ever since day two. Scarlet Witch, town watcher. On night one, I targeted ArcAngel9, because I had a townread there and was hoping to catch scum going after low-hanging fruit: players who were likely sweet and read neutrally to positively by most, but who were not high-profile players. (It turned out I had the right idea but the wrong target. Thaddy is a player I would say also fit this profile.) On night two, BulbyFenny said for a doctor to protect Nally. I consider the role of watcher to be more protective than investigative, so I targeted Nally N2. Interestingly, Kotty did not follow BulbyFenny's request; the only person who I saw visiting Nally N2 was BulbyFenny. (I signaled this quite strongly on D3.) Similarly, when it came time for N3, BulbyFenny specifically requested that a watcher if existing should target Kitty that night. I thought it an unusual request at the time, but I granted the request anyway. Once again, the only name I saw visiting Kitty was BulbyFenny. Since BulbyFenny did not give instructions as far as I could tell, I decided to target BulbyFenny N4, and saw nobody visiting him. Last night, I targeted Nally, but I saw nobody visiting.

The hints have been placed throughout my iso rather strongly about my role. (If need be, I will compile them all, but you cannot have missed their existence.) I have said multiple times that the scum cannot win with myself alive, for this very reason: because I could catch them performing a nightkill. I have additionally said that I was a viable nightkill for this very reason; I lack subtlety in these signals. However, the existence of a ninja does in fact help explain why I am still alive, since they have no incentive to eliminate me. I understand fully if you are suspicious of these results, but the simple fact is that I used my power as I was asked, and when lacking direction, used it to the best of my ability. The lack of productive results has been incredibly disappointing, so I will not defend against attempts to lynch me. My use this game has expired.

However, I do request that after I flip town, you heed my warning about scumteam balance: you will not be dealing with one Marvel scum. You will be dealing with one Marvel and one DC scum. I would additionally request time to compile my own thoughts about the remaining players, to focus on who I feel is most likely Marvel and most likely DC.

Mmk, result get. ZZZX is clean.

Oh, missed this. If there's not a godfather, we autowin.

I am in agreement, but do not blindly make this assumption. Though a Godfather/Ninja may seem overpowered, jason placed one in last game. It is a possibility. I am of the opinion that removing the chance of the cop clears being cleared is equally as foolish as removing the existence of the cop clears. The cop clears have a reduced probability of being sour. But I wish to analyze each of them before making a final conclusion on them.

Is this a reasonable request?

[Aunt Jemina]

Many apologies for my prolonged absence. This old lady had many things weighing her down from real life and should have declared as such previously. The fault is on my end for neglecting to have done so.

AJ, I didn't see a single one of your crumbs or get any vibes you were a town PR. I will have to look over it again I guess.

When such rl issues have faded, I will point them out, then.

AJ's watcher claim should be treated like the scumclaim that it is ... Cop + Hider + Watcher? I dont think so.

It is actually a brilliant setup, deary. Hider is half investigative and half protective. Watcher is half investigative and half protective. We have a doctor as an additional protective, and a cop as an additional investigative. This gives us one devoted to the task and two which can be used either way. (I used mine more defensively as a protection; BulbyFenny used theirs as an investigation.) Naturally, this sort of strength would be countered on the scum's end, and we have seen thusfar a block/protect in the Marvel and two investigatives on the DC. Thus, why I think that each faction has one remaining: a DC with a goon, and a Marvel with a Ninja. Marvel's scum, by flavor, are going to be more attuned to the marvel universe--thus, their roles are going to be focused on blending in with the heroes. DC scum, by flavor, are invading an unknown universe, and thus, are going to have roles focused on understanding the world they have invaded.

This is how jason designs his setups. It's rather clever once you have caught onto the pattern.

Also she flubbed her claim anyway; claiming a report on Bulba N4 when she wouldve got "no result" or "action failed" or the like.

You may question my memory, but never my accuracy. I posted my claim without referencing my results since I had them memorized, but I have checked, and I know what the mod told me. Night one, nobody visited ArcAngel9. Night two, BulbaFenix visited Chandra Nalaar. Night three, BulbaFenix visited Malakittens. (Interestingly, jason's wording between N2 and N3 differed slightly. I am unsure if I can elaborate.) Night four, nobody visited BulbaFenix. And night five, I saw no one visit Chandra Nalaar. These are my results. There are no results that imply a lack of result or a failure in action. And my understanding of jason meta is that if an investigative role fails, they are explicitly told as such. Thus, it is safe to conclude my result is accurate.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am really not sure who is scum but I suspect her of whiteknighting and backing off when the time felt right.

Though I understand the concern about white knighting, zexxy, I assure you, it would make sense if you were aware of who I am. This is not the only time we have interacted, even if it is the only time you are aware of us having interacted. I was reasonably certain of you being sweet. When I lost my confidence in my reads, yours was among them that I doubted. I did not 'back off' on my read of you, deary; I 'backed off' on my reads of

everyone

, yourself included. In mafiascum terminology, this is called a "hard reset"; perhaps you've encountered that term before. I discarded all of my previous bias to begin fresh.

There is also the fact she knew titus wasn't Marvel scum and the way she handled Mozamis.

I knew Tussy was not Marvel scum because she was rather obviously not Marvel scum. I will not question the intelligence of any who believed it, but I will state with absolute certainty that you would have to be naive to have bought her claim. It is not just all of the things contradicting with moderator meta. It is additionally the fact that Tussy is

Titus

, and if you know Tussy, then you should be familiar enough with her habits to have realized precisely what she was up to. That claim was never coming from an actual Marvel member. It could only have come from DC, and myself not being keen on letting the game play according to a scum's agenda, I was obligated to shut her down.

As for mozzy, my thoughts on him were clear enough. I was under the impression that one of Nero/mozzy was scum yet not the other. (An impression that turned out to be accurate, given mozzy lacked scumbuddies. Respect your elders, deary. They are not as senile as you would believe.) I initially believed it to be Nero, advocating for his lynch over that of mozzy's. However, then mozzy began posting some content which I immediately recognized as being anti-town, and I reversed my opinion onto lynching mozzy. This is all laid out in my iso.

I will be running through the game in detail when my issues have cleared up.

[Aunt Jemina]

Wait how was it you did not see someone visit our cop who was killed?

By necessity, that would require it be a ninja.

N4 you successfully target Bulba which means he didnt hide (Lets ignore the double kill/single kill source paradox for now) SO why didnt you see the killer?

Cabby is correct on how the role of hider works, deary. My watch did not fail because that is not how the role of hider works, at least not how jason interprets it.

Also extra scum pints for trying to deflect to the mod

If I were to be scum, then I would be a scum watcher lying about my alignment but not my results. (I do not favor lying about one's role when roleclaiming. One need only look at You Could Be Anyone to see this; knowing my alternative identity merely strengthens this assertion.) Thus, they are accurate and were given to me by the mod. Since I am town, I am telling the truth about my results, thus, they were given to me by the moderator. In either case, what I say remains true; my results are what I have said. Thus, you disagree with the moderator's definition of how the role works.

Probably willing to lynch aunt J just to verify the results and clear the wifom from the table, but granting her time to make tons of reads and stuff just in case is extended.

There are no results to be verified, deary. That is the frustrating thing. My claim tells you nothing you do not already know. It will verify my statement that there is a ninja, but this does nothing to help you find who said ninja would be. If you lynch me, then it must be because you are hunting for scum.

Just posting because there is nothing really going on in this game that isn't revolved around AJ.

You can fix that, deary, by doing analysis. The game should not revolve solely around myself, particularly if the plan is to lynch me today. If the plan is to automatically lynch myself, then what point is there to simply waiting around for it? You can give your own input.

I am in a hurry, and thus, cannot give further content until later this night.

[Aunt Jemina]

Nina only protects from trackers/watchers/variants of those two.

It should be noted, however, that while I use the term ninja for the convenience of simplicity, it is possible to be a godfather. Though I realize that most moderators do

not

give godfathers tracker/watcher immunity, last multiball game, jason did for dramonic. He additionally gave a Godfather immunity to a lie detector, so at least previously, jason has taken the stance that godfathers are immune to

all

investigations, making it a possibility. That being said, I find it to be unlikely, in part because of how strong the role is, in part because of jason's answer about hiders, in part because of the negative feedback he has no doubt received for having them be so strong, but primarily thanks to my reads on the innocent results. I will be addressing this momentarily.

[Aunt Jemina]

Before I begin, I will say that I am essentially working in reverse-probability, as if working my way down a reads list. Thus, the players I will be doing first are those I find to be more town.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hmm...this is taking me longer than I had anticipated. I will be posting the cases as I finish them, however, I need to take a break to attend to affairs in my life. (This will take a couple of hours, and then whatever amount of time it takes to finish.) Many apologies.

[Aunt Jemina]

I need not do the 100% conftown Cabby/Kitty, given their status. If not for their status as confirmed town, I doubt their positioning would change much. (Cabby might be one or two positions lower, but otherwise would remain the same.)

My strongest townread is Zexxy.

Aside from being confirmed town, Zexxy has had a very strongly sweet presence the entire game. I have some familiarity with his play, and though I do not know him well enough to make an absolute conclusion, I am decently sure this is in fact his towngame. I will be giving some highlights throughout his iso that can show some more specifics.

hey Squirrel did you draw Squirrel
#thread

Though this may not seem like much, this early-game banter with Squirly is a very good sign that Zexxy is not scumbuddies with Squirly, which would be the requirement of a godfather-ninja. It additionally shows an inclination towards light-hearted banter, which I consider to be a reasonable indication of a sweet mindset by itself. Give the additional factor of Zexxy being reasonably new, and this tell gets to be stronger.

Let me explain a few things. First off I am not a newb. I did about 10 mafia games total with a nice win rate
Anyway a question pops up. Why am I doing those silly mistakes?
Its clearly a reaction test. I find that my wagon got fast and without a reason mainly. I also find A's defense really lazy. The I just sheeped answer is a risky and useless answer to use. So some town points for you. But I still find that vote weird.
Out of all who voted Mr I found less than half writing reasons that are just being overlooked. I guess scum always goes for middle seats in a wagon.

I found this assertion carrying a degree of town confidence, rather than being that of a sour player in trouble and trying to work their way out. It is also a bit bold for a scum player to discard the newb-card (which is easy for scum to hide behind) in favor of declaring himself a proper player.

It is annoying how I am being voted on my play style.
I don't know about you but if anyone read my.done.games it will be the same posting as that but I always flipped town.
If its something else idk. I can't really find the case on me.
I asked once and I ask again.... what is the case on me?

Though this same post worded a different way may come across as being scum whining about being caught and using self-meta for defense, when factoring in tone, it comes across as a frustrated sweet player who does not understand why they are being lynched and knows that he should be townread and doesn't understand the lack of one.

mozamis:

Have been scumhunting and playing with a nice vibe around him.

Town Read

Chandra Nalaar:

Unusual reads mostly and quite active. I am not sure but I will be saying

Slightly town?

Josh_B:

Let me quote this

Spoiler:

@ Pidgy, Fenix, and Chandra

OK. Even with the possibility of Fake Claims.
Is there any reason to believe that KidA's Wolverine claim isn't true, or that he is scum?
Because so far, all I see from his play is weak wagon hopping from an inexperienced player who has self admitted that he isn't yet able to come to his own conclusions, but has proven that he is willing to jump on whatever seems popular at the time.

At some point in the game, I'll probably prefer to lynch KidA because his inexperience is a liability. If he's willing to bounce from wagon to wagon now, what's he going to be like when the town pool is getting smaller and smaller and the scum are becoming more and more manipulative in their play style?

Maybe we should lynch him now anyways, and see who's interested in keeping him around -but I think that would be better played in a future DP.

He contracted him self in 2 posts. Also tried to defend KidA way to many times.

Scummy

BulbaFenix:

Seems to be focusing on setup more than the scum hunting which is a scum tell they say, Well I don't trust what they said (I am looking at you mafia scum wiki!) But he has way too low posts and way lower content for a normal player or a hydra

Leaning Scum?

This also was a town post for me, as my own thoughts were among this line yet he clearly came to this conclusion on his own.

After I read this I think either you guys are drunk or I am....
Sad part: I called josh b for the reason you just called me for.. When did I say that's the reason?
Pro tip : I didn't stop saying I said things I didnt say.
When the hell did I role fish?
Fun fact; I was from the few who didn't go in that doctor argument and now I am called for it
SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE SAYING I SAID THINGS I DIDN'T
EITHER QUOTE ME OR DONT TALK ABOUT IT.
God I feel better after expressing my anger

This was another post by Zexxy that I feel is more likely to come from frustrated town. The feeling of being a voice of sanity in a wave of insanity is all too familiar to me. The reach-out to Thaddy was solid, and the snark was an additional trait that I was impressed with. He is showing many of the traits of a veteran sweet player.

Jason made two wagons 'cuse the first one is all scum and the second one is not.

So I am confirmed town?

It is clearly a joke but here is a treat (Since you still dont get the joke :<)

The banter with Nero and Vinny once again looks incredibly natural from a sweet player.

JOSH USES QUESTION DODGE + UNLOGICAL ANSWER!
ZZZX USES COUNTER

Now to serious talk. So you say that if you catch 2 scum you would leave the big wagon which aims a scum PR and go for a goon? Still doesnt make sense

Also answer my last post question. Who are your other reads?

In addition to the aggression here which I have a fondness for, the fact that Zexxy was seeing much the same as me shows me that he was coming from a sweet mindset.

Well you posted BS 500 posts ago and are still doing so, The last reply you did was 500 posts ago to me, and It had an extreme ammount of BS and you didnt even defend your self.

Lets say for a moment that I was a scum. (Which I am not)

So any half assed scum would try to lessen contact to his scum partners or bus them.

Idk about you making me "scum partner" with every single person I town read. (Even thou I had not a single interaction with UFN that is worth mentioning.
Ok now think again. I had no interactions with Metal Sonic's slot pre- Replace, And lets say we were scum. (Which again we are not.) The best course of action is lay low since we both did not get to discuss during pre-game since he replaced in.

Now Back to reality. This is a way of scum reading which is basically thinking like a scum. I honestly see all things I said here done by you. You refuse to give reads and also try to lessen your communication with a number of people around you.
Also your push on me had no reason and its still there, Reminds me of That one mafia game...

This was also an incredibly sweet post from Zexxy. The feeling of Joshy being sour and reasons behind it feel solid. Additionally, the defense seems not only indicative of sweet in general, but also shows an inclination to be thinking in single-scum terms (bussing), and additionally demonstrates he is not likely scum with Squirly, as the bolded highlights.

Out of the two wagons that are on atm I think the ruffing one is the best. But its sad the Josh_B Wagon is away.
VOTE: The Ruffing

Though bussing a scumbuddy is something that Zexxy said he would do, in multiball, I have my doubts that he would. He had no need to vote Fliggy. That he did placed Fliggy closer to a lynch when there was an alternative wagon available to him that he easily could have joined.

2:30 remains
Anyone who doesn't vote now will be caught
I will keep on players online tab to know.

This pressuring of players was another pro-town thing for him to push, as it placed pressure on players lurking to post.

I'm elektra, 2 shot vig, ultimate assassin and super sonic agility
There u go

I am so sure this is fake thou. Just telling you that if you were town vig with 2 shots you will safe at least 1 for later. Not random hipfire. That makes or a vanilla townie usually but you are trying to make more confusion. Your gamble was way too clear to be a gamble and viomi reaction was made. I smell mafia bus?

Taking the stance that Sonny is scum is another unusual choice for a scum-Zexxy to make. It is a bad idea to antagonize a dayvig, particularly one backed by fairly strong players, yet he was not only unafraid of it, but pushing it rather strongly.

Noticed noone from scum team 1 voted Ruffling?
I think this is a good place to start.

you mean the on vote or off voters and if off voters what segement do you expect to see scum?

The final vote count had noone of the ruffing team shown to be on the wagon.

one was ruffing, the other SQ. Doesn't mean much. Where do you expect to see the scum?

Pretty much seperated in the other wagons.
Do you find it funny both the current wagons were not on ruffing for example?
I guess going for either of them is fine for me

This analysis on the dead marvel scum also seemed rather town.

Getting on Ruff doesnt clean you since it gives us a chance of a bus or a 2nd scum team which is nearly confirmed at this stage

Taking this stance places himself in danger given that he himself voted Fliggy. Again, it shows a level of play that I have trouble seeing as being possible from a sour-Zexxy.

A tactic I use as scum is basically town read a town which is pushed on a lynch and saving his ass.

It should also be noted that he has not used this tactic this game at all, an indication that he is playing sweet.

There is actually a bunch more on his page two iso, in spite of the incredibly-reduced amount of posts. He essentially traded quantity for quality. If I need to, I will show them in a separate post. (Typing this out has left me rather tired. This old lady requires a lot of rest.)

Overall, the flow of Zexxy's posts is that of a relaxed town player, scumhunting in a very largely stream-of-consciousness style. When he gets emotional, the tone he displays as a result strongly indicates that of a sweet player put on the burner. He additionally is showing what I feel is strongly town apathy.

[Aunt Jemina]

The Ninja that only exists to counter your claimed role. Ive already explained how a town watcher is overpowered in this setup. Why would the mod put a ninja in the game to counter a watcher when the more elegant solution is simply not to have a town watcher?

The ninja also counters the opposite-side's mafia tracker. Additionally, it is possible that 'ninja' is actually godfather; I say ninja for simplicity's sake, but the possibility of a godfather countering a number of investigative roles rather than just the one is distinctly possible.

Furthermore, this logic does not hold for games in general. Why put in a godfather specifically to counter a cop, rather than simply not have a cop in the first place? This is the argument you are making, yet if you have played in any games featuring a godfather with a cop, you would know this happens. I've explained why my role fits into the setup. I have shown the balance and why it is not overpowered as you are claiming it to be.

Just absolute BS, Im sorry. You cannot target a hider who actioned that is all there is to say about it.

You appear to think hider translates into being a "weak commuter", that dies if hiding behind scum or if their target dies, but is otherwise immune to actions. This may have once been the case, but is no longer standard. The majority of hiders these days instead are in essence bulletproof, in that they are immune to death when hiding behind town but otherwise can be targeted as normal. This I know for a fact, as I am rather invested in the definitions of roles and the issues of normalcy have been brought up in mafia discussion recently. The role of hider has not been fully standardized. But it is a reasonably safe assumption that of the three basic ways the role works, the one used by the majority was invoked. Especially when you have a person claiming as such.

I have said this before, and I will say it again, deary. If you try to lynch me off of my actions in this game and believe me to have been playing to a scum wincon, that is all nice and fine. If you attempt to lynch me off of my role, then I can guarantee you that I will win the argument as I am telling the truth whereas you have the bias of thinking me to be a liar. The more you try to use this evidence against me, the more naive and ignorant you appear. (It should be noted that I am not in fact voting ceddy, and my wording here should give a fair idea as to why. However, elaboration on this will have to wait a while.)

For sure you could be a scum watcher but I dont think so, because your claimed actions also have the side effect of supporting the idea that PV is confirmed and Im 100% convinced he is your buddy. Its possible that you are a watcher and PV is a goon, but I reckon balance wise its more likely that you are both goons.

At most, deary, there are two scum left...and by necessity, they would be on opposite factions. It is even possible (albeit highly improbable) for there to be only one scum left. Yet alone, the stupidity in saying Grinny is not town and that I would lie as scum. I weaponized the truth in You Could Be Anything, and resorted to absolute truth in Doctor Who, making my thoughts on its importance abundantly clear back then. And if you have not noticed, I have been hinting at my role throughout the entirety of the game, meaning that this is not a fakeclaim I decided to randomly do; it is something that would necessitate me having planned to fake from the beginning of the game. (The only time I have lied is when I had a guilty result on myself and needed a claim stronger than vanilla to attempt saving my faction from certain doom. Extreme duress on short notice.) Which is simpler, deary? I am scum who planted throughout the entirety of my iso 'crumbs for a role I did not possess, knowing it is a role jason is likely to use (and thus, risking a counterclaim existing), hoping that nobody would shoot me for them and that I would not be forced to claim prematurely and fake results every day...or that I am what I say I am, who placed the 'crumbs for my role, knowing I was likely dead and thus, trying to leave my results for everyone to have available if I died before a claim?

Regarding the mod comment, it's you who has been claiming crazy interpretations of how a role works. First the idea that a hider hiding behind a godfather wouldnt die and now this watchers can target hiders claptrap

I do not deny that hider-godfather is a 'crazy interaction', however, I thought it a realistic possibility of an interaction jason may actually have thanks to my previous experience with his modding. His interpretation of roles is not necessarily that which we may expect. However, I happen to

know

that he interpreted hiders the more common way because that is what result I have in my inbox. There is no claim. Merely fact.

Why wouldnt the Mala read change? You had her as a scumread until she was confirmed, and she certainly isnt town via play itt.

Kitty was a sourread out of a combination of paranoia and apathy in not fact-checking why she had previously been a sweet-read of mine. You will recall that at the time I was doubting my read on her, my entire reads had been shaken up by Vinny being sour and BulbyFenny being sweet. Getting intensely concerned about Kitty was part of that.

However, aside from the innocent result on her, I remembered that she replaced pappy, and I remembered my sweet-read on him, and on her early play. Her later play has gotten weaker, it is true, thanks to apathy having set in and real life interfering. (Feelings I understand all too well.) It was these things combined with my own feelings that left me in doubt of her. However, if I did not have the innocent result on her, she would be my strongest townread anyway thanks to the earlier play.

I dont even know if its legit of just WK....

Were you to know my other identity, you would know it is legitimate. This is not the first game I have defended you in, Zexxy, nor do I think it will be the last, for I see in you much the same as I see in myself.

[Aunt Jemina]

It should be noted that we possess less time than I thought we had available. Thus, there will be a need to rush a bit.

I intend to continue my cases and finish them all, however, I will not keep you waiting. The players remaining, from most town to least town, are

approximately

as such:

22 beastcharizard
12 RachMarie/UniversalSlutBus
11 PeregrineV
25 displaced
7 Luca Blight/Josh_B
4 vezokpiraka

The cliffnotes version of each:
Beasty is unlikely to be sour of either faction, in part thanks to his townslip and in part thanks to his status as a counterwagon on D1 and D2. (I have not fully fact-checked this.)
Rach could be Marvel, thanks to her predecessor. Awkwardly, I was under the impression she replaced Angel (a massive townread of mine) when I began my work, but after fact-checking, found she replaced UniversalSlutBus. If you run an iso on that slot, you can see how this is a concern of mine. However, I have not yet fully done my work on the Rach iso, which I believe to be more sweet.
Grinny could be DC, if Vinny simply chose to claim a VT result on a scumbuddy in the hopes of clearing them. I have not yet fully processed Grinny's play this game to be certain he is sour or sweet, yet I find him being sweet more likely than not.
Ceddy, in spite of his horribly-bad push on me, I believe to firmly be playing to his town game. Admittedly, I am not familiar with his scumplay, but this is something that will be remedied. (In other words, I have yet to fully complete my research.)
Joshy/Light/Replacement I still have a feeling is DC. This has not yet been fully fact checked.
Vezzy is my current bet for Marvel scum. However, I have not yet fully processed the relevant information, throughout his iso, the votecounts, and Fliggy/Squirly posting to verify this.

As I have said, I will continue to compile my cases as I finish my research. Corrections to the list above will be noted as they come to exist. (I.e., the evidence does not match my conclusion, thus proving my hypothesis wrong.)

For the moment, I will put out a tentative

vote: vezokpiraka

, and would advice not to lynch ceddy. I still need to finish my work to be sure of this, so have my word that I will make haste with my research.

[Aunt Jemina]

Dearies, you are shooting yourselves in your feet by being this inactive.

Deadline is drawing near, and I am the only one analyzing the game.

Mod: can we have deadline suspended/extended until a Jushy/Lighty replacement can be found?

Zexxy:

I see you are online. For what reason do you believe myself to be sour? If I were to be sweet, who would you think to be sour?

Cabby:

Though I trust you to have been doing silent analysis, the issue with that is the silence therein. Would you care to share your thoughts?

Rach:

Deary, I realize you have had issues, but I really need you in the game to talk to.

Grinny:

Deary, I realize you have had V/LA issues, but where is your analysis?

Beasty and Kitty:

If ceddy were to not be sour, who would you think to be sour in his stead?

These are all things that should be happening, yet right now are not. Never let a game revolve around one player.

[Aunt Jemina]

It is particularly important to get answers from everyone with haste.

If you believe myself to be sour, or believe that I am sweet but lynching me will help you find those that are, then you need to show who will be sour after I flip sweet. Otherwise, a lynch on myself will have been fruitless.

If you believe myself to be sweet, then you should not be placing absolute faith in my reads and waiting for me to explain them all. I do not fully trust myself to be without bias; as has been demonstrated, I am not infallible. Thus, you should be actively contributing your own stances and not relying on mine.

In either case, you should be doing things right now, given deadline's proximity. Apathy will lose us the game.

[Aunt Jemina]

by IDK I mainly mean I am suspecting you of insanely defending me like... a lot?

A null (perhaps slightly town) tell, I assure you.

Someone do the maths and tell me can we win this with PoE alone?

I heavily discourage this mindset. Many towns who thought they could win by simple POE alone have ended up either losing or getting dangerously close to having lost because they let themselves get reckless and let themselves become apathetic, no longer putting in effort to think because they put themselves into a cruise control mode.

In this case, it would depend on whether there are two scum left or just one. It would also depend on whether the second scum chose to kill. However, assuming town lynches, two scum, and the second scum not killing, we have this:
10 alive. A mislynch places us at 9.
A single kill places us at 8. A mislynch places us at 7.
A single kill places us at 6, and a double kill would place us at 5.

In either case, if two scum remain, we have two mislynches. We have two definitively confirmed town players, and 2-3 lesser-confirmed players. A win is not assured because the status of the confirmed town is not absolute. However, it is a probability all the same. We do not have a guaranteed win, but with some simple analysis and some degree of trust, it is far more likely than not. In addition to the above, there is also the probability that we do not mislynch town two days in a row. We can lynch scum today and/or tomorrow in addition to when we would get down to 5/6 players.

[Aunt Jemina]

(I am, of course, assuming that if two scum remain, the second scum is not going to reveal their existence by killing tonight. This is a reasonably-safe assumption, as while some players such as myself are hunting for them anyways, other players are neglecting to do so, and a second kill would motivate them to start. The absolute worst case scenario for the town would of course be two scum remaining, a mislynch today and tomorrow, and two nightkills each night, placing the town in a 2:1:1 scenario. However, this is unlikely, as it requires scum acting in a way they are not prone to, scum not crosskilling one another, scum nightkills not overlapping, and town to mislynch twice when we are unlikely to have done so.)

[Aunt Jemina]

On a serious note, want to look back over Squirrel gril and Rufflig again. They happened so early in the game they are some of the ones I didn't study as closely as Titus/Viomi.

This is one of the reasons I have not placed much stock in isoing Squirly or Fliggy. Their deaths happened so early in the game that it is quite likely their isos do not contain any definitive leads towards their scumbuddy. Squirly in particular is a skilled enough player to not fall into the typical traps that a scum player is likely to do, and thus, placement of scumbuddies is most probably not what we would anticipate. Fliggy may give a much better indicator, as he is more prone to have done so, but his iso I distinctly remember having been chaotic, making it likely that his strategy for playing this game was to play as if he had no role PM, thus, giving no indication to his buddies. (I find it difficult to believe that a scumteam with Squirly on it and frankly almost any other living player would allow him to get away with his antics. They would likely tell him to focus. That he did not is a strong indicator that he was probably not in communication with them.)

Had they died later in the game, I feel as if we could have gotten a much better picture of who their scumbuddy was. The patterns on the first day do not mean much by themselves, unless you have patterns on future days to compare it to. There's simply too much speculation to have a solid picture and it is mere guesses as to what went on with their faction at the time, as it is impossible to deduce with such a limited pool of information. Thus, why my analysis is primarily focused on the players themselves. When it comes to the possibility of a final DC scum, isoing Tussy/Vinny/Nero will prove enlightening. When it comes to the certainty of a final Marvel scum, it is not as clear for Squirly/Fliggy.

[Aunt Jemina]

Point of clarity: though I do not place much stock in Squirly/Fliggy isos giving us definitive leads to a scumbuddy, I feel they are worth exploring anyways. While ultimately, there is too much speculation to form a coherent picture, it is a worthy endeavor to try and obtain one. I simply place it lower on my list of priorities. I consider player isos and wagon formations to be more important, but still think running Squirly/Fliggy isos will be productive after having done the other two.

[Aunt Jemina]

Can we just lynch aj today and in case the game doesn't end we start reading her posts.

I would not be opposed to this, on the conditions that

• Everyone gives their own thoughts today first,
  
• I am given the time to finish my cases,
  
• And that I am actually listened to.

Provided these, it would be acceptable. Without them, it is not.

You, for instance, fail the first point. Your content the last two day phases has consisted of nothing aside from "let's lynch AJ". You have not been giving reasons, and you have not been providing alternative options. When I flip town, who would you then suspect, and why? Who wouldn't you lynch and why do you not wish to lynch them? Simple things such as that are what I ask others to give. If there is no answer, then that is problematic, given how far we are into the game and the amount of information we have available.

[Aunt Jemina]

Beasty is my second-strongest townread.

Aside from his townslip, let us begin with some basic vote count analysis.

The Rufflig 6 - Aronis,vezokpiraka,pidgey,Chandra Nalaar,Nero Cain,BulbaFenix,
beastcharizard 4 - Mutleyddmc,ThAdmiral,mozamis,Umbrage,

Beasty was voted by two DC scum, already ruling him an unlikely candidate for their faction. Him being Marvel is unfortunately not disproven by the VCs, and in fact is often vaguely supportive of it (if you desire, I will point this out. However, I see no need to do so when I believe it irrelevant and invalid), so if beasty were to be sour, it would be Marvel rather than DC.

viomi 9 - Metal Sonic ,BulbaFenix,displaced,PeregrineV,vezokpiraka,ZZZX,beastcharizard, Sharpest-knife-on-tree,Malakittens,
beastcharizard 6 - RachMarie ,Titus,Chandra Nalaar,mozamis,Viomi,Nero Cain,

I could quote any D2 votecount to show it, but this one shows it strongest of all, reinforcing the D1 analysis. Beasty had all three flipped DC on him. You cannot get more conclusive evidence than this that he is not DC. For yet more proof,

Titus 8 - Chandra Nalaar,Josh_B,Cabd,Sharpest-knife-on-tree,mozamis,beastcharizard,PeregrineV,vezokpiraka,
beastcharizard 3 - RachMarie,Titus,Malakittens,

I urge a look here. Though you can argue that the scum knew Tussy was caught, beasty never left Tussy's lynch and Tussy pushed beasty strongly in a manner not reminiscent of bussing.

A quick run of his iso can solidify this further. Early Nero and Ragey interactions in particular make it proven once and for all.

As for why not Marvel, aside from the slip, I can ascribe it to a lack of scumminess in his iso. Admittedly, there is not many gems of being town, however, they are present. Given a lack of scum indicators and some minor indicators of being town (aside from the major indication the townslip was), this is enough to place him as my second-strongest sweet-read.

Now, what are you going to call that comment when I flip town? Also, what do you think of what I said about ZZZX and what is your general opinion on that slot? I don't remember you saying anything about them so your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Though any individual post of beasty's gives no indication of his alignment, if you observe his overall interaction with Zexxy and Ragey in this time period, it is overall something that quite strongly indicates a town mindset to approaching the whole affair. This post is one of the stronger ones demonstrating it, as I am always a bit of a sucker for the "when I flip town" line coming from town.

@Nero: I was going to sheep you but then I got a heavy scum read so I decided I didn't need to sheep you. Sheeping is done when one doesn't have any strong reads but you trust in someone else's non-strong reads more than your own.
@Umbrage: I am not lynched because not enough people share your opinion of me being scum.

Aside from the hilariously-not-scumbuddies interaction with DC, this post is town on its own merits in part thanks to the tone. I particularly like the bit about not enough people sharing Ragey's opinion, as the phrasing does not sound natural coming from a sour player. I also think the explanation for the lack of a sheep is a good one, and it shows that beasty is unafraid to think for himself. It would be all too easy for beasty to sheep, especially on D1 in a multiball game, to avoid drawing attention to himself, particularly the attention of a scumread which if correct could cause him to be nightkilled by said player. Yet he defiantly chose not to be afraid of his scumread. This is admittedly weakened when he later chooses to sheep Nero anyway, however, his reasons given are not bad: he was behind, needed to catch up, many players were sheeping Nero, and he likely figured they may have had reason to do so. Yet the main reason I bring this up is the follow-through which looks quite good:

I can't tell if you are joking or not.

I was being serious. I'm paranoid 'cause if you were to flip scum then it looks like an attempt to make it look like I am your buddy.

I mean if you were scum aligned then we would all be stupid for sheeping you. It was a joke role that doesn't even exist. But let your paranoia go since I will flip town so it doesn't matter if I call you town aligned or not.

This in particular shows a strong indication to have been thinking in terms of a single faction. I am not sure how to explain, but the first sentence is where it shows most, in that it doesn't make as much sense coming from someone thinking in terms of multiscum. The casual way he says he will flip town is another, but the last part also shows it rather strongly: it not mattering if he calls someone town-aligned or not only matters if it's single-faction. In multiball, calling someone who flips town carries a much greater weight. Beasty put no thought into this, and that is very likely because beasty is not himself sour.

You have to keep in mind that scum KNOW who isn't on their team so it is very easy to fake town reads on people when you absolutely know they are town.

Though this was on D2 after multiball was practically confirmed, beasty's wording here is an indicator that he was still not yet thinking in terms of multiball. In multiball, scum absolutely do not know the whole picture: they know their own team, but not the opposite team. Thus, they do not know absolutely a player to be town, and are legitimately scumhunting outside of their own scumteam.

I can't defend myself really. I have played like shit and done nothing this game. I wanted to at least post a reads list so I could tell myself I contributed to the game.

This is also an immensely-sweet post as well. The honesty bleeds through the posting, and the overall feeling of not having done well and hoping to have left a meaningful contribution is a feeling I recognize all too well. His continued efforts to post reads, especially as a wagon was springing up on him and a lynch looked realistic, feel town as well. He continued elaborating, clarifying, and updating them, and it looks to have been done with no ulterior motive; rather than attempting to shut his lynch down, it seems to be accepting the lynch will happen, and trying to leave something for others to use.

What has changed between these posts? I am talking about your read on me of course.

It's a small thing, but questioning a change of read on your slot from scum to town is not something a sour player is naturally inclined to do. It is fairly counterproductive as it risks the read reverting back to its original status. However, coming from a sweet player, it is quite natural, as they become concerned about things such as being white knighted.

His content since then has not been as strong (aside from the townslip) at indicating his alignment, however, his overall posting is still decently strong, as he raises points that indicate an investment in figuring out the gamestate, rather than trying to survive and buy time as I feel a sour player would be more inclined to do. He has not been prone to going onto cruise control, and has actively been trying to figure things out rather than blindly pushing something. All of these factors make it incredibly unlikely for him to be sour, which is why I have him as my second-strongest sweet-read.

[Aunt Jemina]

Rach is my third-strongest townread

.

However, I should point out that this is largely in part thanks to those below her being more suspicious rather than because she has been town. Rather, while her posting has been fine overall, and I think her more likely sweet than sour for reasons I will be explaining, there are a number of large red flags that make me think she could possibly be a Godfather that is additionally a ninja. I will begin by pointing these out, as it makes it easier to illustrate why I ultimately feel this is not the case.

Spoiler: Concerning highlights from Rach's predecessor

Yates is town, and is stubborn. Squirrel Girl is probably town, and is overeager and stubborn. Neither of them really seemed to be paying close attention to what the other was saying, and was more interested in getting their own slightly-misguided point across.
This game is wayyyy too big for me to take in all the different facets that aren't Yates/SG, so unless something rings some serious alarm bells, I'm probably not going to have much to say until I somehow find a lot of free time to do a thorough read.

Though this post proves they're not DC (a fact we already know through the innocent result on them), it is deeply worrying their treatment of Squirly, here.

And as for the Pidgey/Rufflig thing...
Reading back, whether or not I agree with Rufflig's case or reasons for voting Pidgey, I see it as more town motivated. He legitimately seems like a townie who believes he's found scum, and Pidgey's aggression and defensiveness is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm saying it's town v town for now. I still don't like Pidgey's defensiveness, but that doesn't make him scum though.

ZZZX can wait for now, Let's ratchet this Back up to where it needs to be.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ruflig

Is Rufflig's page 3 vote on Aronis your main reason for voting him now?

This also sticks out to me, worrying me greatly.

I am really not comfortable with the Rufflig wagon. I don't think I'm going to be down with his lynch unless he does something that is actually scummy. Imagining that there's likely at least one or two scum on his wagon at this point.

This,

JKM made it fairly clear that there wasn't anything worth commenting on. Up to that point the thread was basically just a shitfight between Squirrel and Yates.

Plus this,

Ah fair enough. I think I'll need to reread again and talk it over with the other head, I really didn't pick up on that on my read through. I'll have to look at Rufflig and SG's interactions some more. When I've looked at it, I've seen Rufflig pushing his case pretty hard, particularly on Pidgey, but I also chalk that up to Pidgey's aggressive reactions there.

But

especially

this prove deeply, deeply concerning in hindsight.

Nearly the entirety of their iso is defending Fliggy and Squirly. However, though I realize this logic is a bit absurd, I have a feeling that SUCH a strong focus on Fliggy and Squirly is unlikely to have come from someone who was actually their scumbuddy.

As for Rach, there are some concerns there as well.

Good to see you again Auntie. Definitely will read your ISO since last time you were scum, however one thing is for sure, you are probably not buddies with Rufflig and SG because last time you were in the position of last one standing, you helped town out to defeat the other scum team. Though atm I have a gut town read on you, so need to follow that up.

This in particular. I am a bit concerned that this is her way of signalling that she is the last Marvel scum, playing to help the town. This makes the iso of her to be a bit more tricky than that of most players. If she were to be Marvel playing to help town, her play would therefore resemble her towngame to the point of being nearly-indistinguishable from it.

So the main reason I feel as if this is not a scum-Rach deal mainly with her presence in the game (or rather, a lack of one).

whoops I was waiting for the mod to post I had confoimed in PM and then forgot to ego post. my bad

If she were sour, she would have been able to have done work in a quicktopic. That she did not is a minor indication that she is sweet.

I got bad news on Tues
I am now diabetic and been busy doing research and dealing with the changes I have to make to hopefully avoid being put on meds in 3 months.

This shortly before going into night does make it somewhat-questionable if she would have even had a chance to submit an informed kill. However, as shown by Nally's death, the scum killing Nally clearly knew. While Rach was in the game, she was not paying that close attention, so I am uncertain a scum Rach would catch that detail and make the correct kill.

I would like to hear from Auntie about this She did something similar in the last game we were in together. Though in that game I was half of the hydra Twin Flames (NS was the other half). She ended up being the last scum left on her side, and chose to help town.

If Rach were the last Marvel, I would expect her to avoid commenting on the issue of Tussy claiming Marvel. That she wished to hear my feedback is another minor indicator that she is not afraid to have attention drawn to herself.

I thought all the mods went to private topics, at least that seems to be the trend. I have a game that has ended to back this up. (I was in the dead thread)

Though this could be faked, it is another indicator that Rach is likely sweet, as Tussy all-but confirmed that jason has yet to convert over to PTs.

BTW so we now have one red and one black left, right? The names of the teams confuse me.

This is another one that could be faked, but I feel indicates her being sweet anyway.

Overall, I fully realize that my case for Rach being town is significantly weaker than my previous two cases, but factor in the innocent result on her and the fact that a Godfather-ninja (while possible) seems a bit too strong for Marvel, and I consider her to be worthy of the spot.

[Aunt Jemina]

So a ninja can't be tracked or watched?
Can a cop get a result on a ninja or is it like ascetic where only killing works on it?

I would additionally like to point out this. Though this could be faked, it is a further indicator that Rach is not familiar with the role, which increases quite strongly her chances of being sweet.

[Aunt Jemina]

I would like to say that ceddy, not Grinny, is my next-strongest sweet-read, thanks to some things I have picked up on that I had forgotten/missed when I began my process (in particular, analysis that makes ceddy near-certainly not DC at the least), and that my case on him will be next. Grinny is below ceddy. However, I need some rest before I resume, seeing as how exhausted this old lady has become from writing so much.

[Aunt Jemina]

the chances of the last scum pr being a ninja is what? I would think it would have some type of investigation role.

Obviously, I know that it is a ninja. However, objectively, I would say at minimum, 50%. Think of it, deary: typically, a scumteam will have one investigative role and one alternative role, e.g. roleblocker. However, the DC scum had two investigative roles and no alternative roles. Thus, it is logical that the Marvel scum have two alternative roles and no investigative roles.

Let us be honest: if you believe the DC scum to be dead, and think I would be a Marvel Watcher, the scumteams are horribly unbalanced as a result. Both having an encryptor, but one scumteam having two limited-shot roles, and the other scumteam having two full-powered roles. By necessity, therefore, I am not a scum watcher. Yet I very clearly am not lying about having produced results (as I can easily demonstrate). Even adding a DC goon who is faking death does not serve to balance the teams properly. The scenario that makes the most sense is for the Marvel scumteam to have a second role that is low-key. Godfather/Ninja fit this profile.

I happen to know my own role and the necessary scum role that is in there. But I have also demonstrated to you why it makes sense from a balance, theme, and overall design perspective to be as I have said it to be. The flavor supports marvel villains blending in and interfering with marvel heroes. The flavor supports DC invaders gathering information about the foreign universe they are in, and quite probably having a proper invasion (thus, numerical superiority to the Marvel villains), yet also individually weaker as a result of being in unfamiliar territory. The design supports a setup with one devoted protective and investigative roles, and two roles which can serve as either function. (Hider and Watcher.) This gives the town a decent amount of power, but not an overwhelming amount. Meanwhile, the scum on the DC side are given two roles to catch the town PRs and hunt for the Marvel scum, and the Marvel scum are playing a defensive game with their PRs meant to shut down town PRs, protect themselves, and hide from both the DC and town. Aggressive scum1, balanced town, defensive scum2. This is a simple, yet brilliant game design, one that nobody will realize was in place until near the end of the game.

I kinda feel bad for lynching AJ when she's doing so much work

Then don't lynch me, deary. I am an incredibly strong advocate of lynching players not off of their roles, but off of their play. If you think my play to be that of a sour player, that is fine. If you think me to be sour because your idea of setup balance differs from jason's when I feel I have done more than adequately at explaining how he must have designed things...that should not be.

so either aj is lying about a watcher or scum has a godfather and a ninja, which i guess is possible, but still overpowered for town to have those three prs + doc + 3-vig.

As I have said, it is possible that the ninja is in fact a godfather that is immune to tracks/watches in addition to investigation. This may not make sense to you, and you may think the role to be overpowered, however, it is explicitly a role jason has used before, as dramonic held the role in the Dr. Who game (which this game has some strong resemblance to). I happen to think this overpowers the scumteam because I happen to think that the town power roles are not that strong (hider in particular has an exponentially-higher chance of dying than of living given three kills/night), but it is far from impossible.

[Aunt Jemina]

What am i supposed to do? This game is dead and I have no clue how to help it.

Giving your scum suspects is a step in the correct direction, and I think you saying ceddy and then myself is you having done so, but you can additionally go into reasons as to why. It would also be nice to not limit your analysis to simply two players.

If she is actually town they kind of have to kill her before she catches someone.

This is true for the DC scum. They cannot kill anyone aside from myself without risking getting caught. (This is one reason why lynching me is sub-optimal: it permits DC scum to kill again without risk. Right now, less town dead is better and having two nightkills would lessen our odds of winning significantly.) However, they are unlikely to reveal themselves anyway unless they think doing so will win them the game (or the last Marvel scum is lynched and their hand is forced). It is regrettably untrue of the Marvel scum, who I cannot catch lest their role be a limited-shot ninja. (In which case it is still best to delay lynching me in order to put that to the test.)

[Aunt Jemina]

If your definition of hider is the standard, then it will be discussed at length in the most recent MD thread regarding the role.

Hiders themselves have not been discussed recently, though they most certainly are included in the recent topics by category. Alas, we cannot discuss the role of hider there without getting modkilled. That being said, I am familiar with the role of hider.

What a hider used to be, and still on rare occasions may be, is a role that hides behind a player and takes on the properties of the player they are hiding behind:
A tracker tracking the hider tracks the hider to going wherever the hider's target goes, a cop receives the result of the hider's target when targeting the hider, and so on. Some variants make this a two-way link, with a cop targeting the hider's target getting the hider's alignment. (There is a reason this version is archaic and no longer used by most.) This is also where the idea of hiders dying when their target is nightkilled originates from.

Another definition of hider has been "commuter who dies if their target dies or they hide behind scum". This is the variant you are insisting exists, as you believe I should not have received a result when I quite clearly did. This version is in use, but is not the standard.

A third variation has the function of the hider role be "will be protected from death when hiding behind a player, unless that player dies", and excludes the bit about hiding behind scum, which they attribute to the "weak" modifier.

However, the standard hider, the role as it is most commonly used, is a hider that when targeting a player, will be immune to death unless the targeted player dies or the target is scum. This is the version that I am near-certain jason is using this game. You question its existence, but I can think of at least one common place to see this version in action: Hard Boiled. The tracker can track the hider. If a tracker can track a hider, a watcher can watch a hider.

I could use my normal standard language, deary, but this has gotten irksome enough where I will stoop down to use the language of you youngsters:
I am right, I know I am, you are wrong, and you can suck. my. tits.

[Aunt Jemina]

Weird quirk with how the setup works.

BROseidon is no authority when it comes to these affairs, deary. In fact, his stances are rather controversial more often than not. He is more a user than he is a moderator.

Based on this

Night four, nobody visited BulbaFenix.

, and the phrasing of the role in the wiki specfically "While Hiding, the Hider itself is considered an ineligible target for actions - all actions that target the Hider specifically will fail. ", that Jason would have given a read hider something like "No result."

I know the result in my fudging inbox, deary. Unless my action failing is indistinguishable from my receiving a "nobody visited" result, you are wrong. I received a nobody visited result. Thus, that is how the action was processed. Nobody visited BulbyFenny.

Giving a single example of a game where a non-standard hider was used is great, but 3787 carries more weight.

The moderator quoted the wiki. Cabby, not ceddy, is correct about the usage of the role. In the good ol' days where players were seen as being in houses, think of it as this way: a watcher watches the house of their target. Someone targeting the hider is trying to find the hider themselves. Because the hider is hiding, the person trying to find the hider will fail. The watcher, not watching the hider themselves, will not fail.

The action of watching is not investigating the hider. It is not protecting the hider. It is looking at things surrounding the hider. Thus, I am not specifically targeting the hider. My action is not tied to a result on the hider. Investigations may be considered as such. Kills ARE considered as such. Protections are USUALLY considered as such. Roleblockers (if below hiders on action resolution) are considered as such. They are all targeting the hider for a specific purpose, to gather info on the hider, to kill the hider, to protect the hider, to block the hider. A watcher is looking for things AROUND the hider. A watcher is looking for the investigations, the killers, the protections, the roleblockers. A watcher does not care about the hider themselves, but about the things targeting the watcher.

I have checked, double-checked, and triple-checked my results. Just to be sure that there's no difference. There is none.
All three have the same formatting. Stating my target (although, interestingly, using a different tense each time), no one visited (the N1 report is slightly more specific), and that is it.
No one visited ArcAngel9 N1.
No one visited BulbaFenix N4.
No one visited Chandra Nalaar N5.
BulbaFenix visited Chandra Nalaar N2.
BulbaFenix visited Malakittens N3. (Interestingly, this one stands out formatting-wise. It isn't the same wording as the Nally result, when the Nally result is similar to the Nobody visited results.)

These are the results I have. Saying that I do not have them will not change the existence of them.

[Aunt Jemina]

If you wish for a game that can demonstrate what I am talking about deary, then how about showing you a game you are quite familiar with:
The watcher flavor in this large normal. The watcher there was watching the house of the target, not the target themselves. If the target had been a hider hiding, then the flavor would not have been changed.

This fulfills the requirement of demonstrating how the interaction works. Watchers are looking for those who target a player, not looking at the player themselves.

[Aunt Jemina]

Unless my action failing is indistinguishable from my receiving a "nobody visited" result,

You... you haven't specifically asked that of the mod yet?

No, because I generally assume that most moderators will distinguish between results for an investigation-classed role. Cops get told about a lack of result by default. More trackers than not get told about a lack of result, though I recognize that some trackers have the two be indistinguishable. (I consider it borderline bastard-modding.) The same applies for the watcher role. Though the possibility exists, I do not believe it is how jason would process the role. I will of course ask now for clarity, but I am positive he will tell me what I already assumed.

[Aunt Jemina]

In fact, off of the wording alone I can already infer the answer. (I am not sure I can say the wording in my role PM. It is something that you must take my word for.)

[Aunt Jemina]

And to help prove that I am in fact what I claim, you can bear witness to my hints:

if you are a protective role (doctor, jailkeeper etc) please defend me tonight!

If you expect a guardian angel to be

watching over you

, Sonny, then you need to not let yourself be so easily influenced to shoot obvious town players like Kiddy.

I am honestly surprised nobody noticed this one. I made it as abundantly clear as I could that I was a watcher, and that I refused to watch him unless he became a player worthy of protecting.

I realized that I needed to hint at my result, which I had neglected to do in my previous posts, so I remedied this swiftly.

20 ArcAngel9

--Oh, Angel, my deary. She is an open book to read when she is around, but lurking does not do her favors.

I have been watching her

and will proudly bump her up once she is around stronger than she is right now.

There will be little need to read me this game, as I do not foresee myself living long.

Why did I not foresee myself living long?

Because as an abrasive watcher, I thought myself not only a threat by play, but by role as well. I was certain that while I may live for perhaps a phase or two extra, that by virtue of my role, I would die.

I want whoever our protective role is to protect Chandra tonight.

Anyone think this might explain anything about last night?

I very much sincerely doubt it. I am of the opinion it was in fact a block, not a protection, causing the absent nightkill.

There will also be no need for me to be lynched this game, as I am the next nightkill. I am not a player who will earn protection this game, and yet killing me will match the kill pattern for whoever it was that killed Endy, thus, they will not fear protection roles being on me.

I will now curl up into a ball and wither away into dust.

This was as close to claiming as I was going to let myself get. I watched Nally that night, thus, knew BulbyFenny was the only one visiting her. I did not know what role specifically BulbyFenny had, but if it were protective in nature, then my thoughts were that he did not stop a nightkill. I also continue to point out that I am a walking corpse, who will not earn protection. This wording was quite explicit, in that I was all-but saying I WAS the protection. (For that is how I see the watcher as being used.) Watching myself is not possible, but were it, it would not nullify a kill on me. Thus, I would always be vulnerable to being nightkilled.

I am quite aware why you know Nally to be town. (

This old lady

sees

things no other player may

observe

.) I ask you for trust in me to be sweet. I will die before you do by nightkill regardless, as you can tell that Vinny's defenders have been marked for death.

There is no way you could view this as anything other than a watcher breadcrumb and revealing that I knew BulbyFenny had targeted Nally. I was trying to signal to him as such. And if you pay attention to his posting, I am sure you are aware he received the message and ultimately understood my message. I also further lament that my death via nightkill is assured, as the scum would not be able to kill BulbyFenny before taking care of the watcher. (Or so I believed.)

Perhaps they may consider not doing so if they feared I would receive protection, but I am quite explicitly not someone high on the list of doctor protection targets, especially given the suspicion on me.

Even I haven't figured this one out, except possibly for how amazingly town I am! *radiates townie spendour*

You have in fact been remarkably sweet, deary, but you are now confirmed town. If not for trusting BulbyFenny, then in trusting myself trusting him.

Not fully caught up, but another sweeeeeet result. MS pretty much conf town now. Bulba v likely town now as well. Cabd I'm less sure of. His posts solo seem to have been a lot better than the hydra, maybe he is just making more effort.

If you trust myself to be sweet, trust BulbyFenny to be sweet as well. And if you trust him to be sweet, then by extension trust Cabby and Nally to additionally be sweet.

Here, I make it even clearer. Note the lack of doctor/watcher: because I AM the watcher, meaning that the only protective role I could be protected by is a doctor. Additionally note my wording towards Nally, where I INSIST that BulbyFenny is sweet, for his targeting of Nally. Furthermore, note that this continues with my talk to mozzy. I did not know what BulbyFenny was, specifically. I did know that he was something important and trusted his word that his targets were confirmed town, thanks to having seen him.

However, I am more than happy to spring the trap as town, for I am already living on borrowed time.

I live on borrowed time because I am a watcher that needs to die for scum to kill PRs. (Or so my thought was.)

I think I wanna look the numbers over again, but if there's another town pr out there with a clear it's an autowin?

The presence of another town PR is nearly guaranteed. However, said power role should only claim if at risk of death or if they have any meaningful information to claim.

Given that said power role would almost assuredly be either a watcher or a tracker, it can be assumed safely that a lack of claimed results therefore means no results are furthering the information base beyond what we already know.

You cannot miss this in hindsight. I explicitly said I was the other town power role, and was a watcher. I also made it explicit that I had nothing to claim that we did not already know--in this case, that BulbyFenny had targeted Kitty that night.

I could buy an AJ scum.

There is nobody here who could not. But I assure you, my death will be by nightkill. Not via lynch. It has not happened yet, but it is guaranteed to happen if not sooner then later. This is not arrogance. Simply facts. I will not live much longer. Be it one kill source or the other, my death is assured. It is simply a matter of when they choose to time it.

This was me further hammering in the importance of a nightkill on the watcher.

Why on earth would anyone shoot SKOT instead of someone who's actually been cleared? Godfathers?

Given you're alive, this would be a safe assumption, yes. I would wager there is a godfather on one team and a ninja on the other. (Tussy's tracker-hunting looks as if she was trying to get a reaction from that type of PR, which is more likely to come from a faction that possesses a ninja.)
This being said, you were his N2 clear and I have no doubt in that. Cabby was his N1 clear and though not absolutely confirmed, has appeared more sweet than sour to me. I will await an answer from the moderator before giving my thoughts about Kitty.

Here I make it clearer. Not only do I make the speculation about a ninja (why would a ninja exist just for a tracker?), I also all-but-explicitly state my results: I could not verify Cabby being BulbyFenny's clear as I did not watch Cabby N1. I could, and was, verifying BulbyFenny's N2 and N3 clears.

I have firmly believed myself to be a target for nightkills since the very beginning of the game, and thus, have been unafraid to speak my mind. It draws attention from the serial killer, which would cause them to nightkill me over players who are confirmed town. It additionally allows the town to heed my warning were I to suddenly die, and hold caution, paying attention to what I have said so that they are able to realize I may have been correct.

Now, if you think me scum off of my play rather than my intelligence, then present a case. I will do my best to put your concerns at ease. If you think me sour after even that, then I may claim to hasten the speed of my death. But you are making a

severe

mistake if you continue pushing this line of inquiry. I will die along with other confirmed town players in due time. You have my word on that. The scum cannot let me live if they wish to win.

Here I make my thoughts on the matter even more clear. As the watcher, I had it as my duty to protect other town power roles, or catch their killers if that proved impossible. I made it as explicit as I could without claiming.

Have you missed the part where I have made it explicit that scum cannot afford to let me live until lylo? Particularly true now, the day before potential lylo. (I will treat the game as possessing two DC scum for caution's sake.)

You keep saying this but I still don't know what it means

Then you are blind, deary, whereas

I can see clearly

. I may not have found many scum with my scumhunting, but I assure you that if I am left alive, I will find scum.

In addition to the deliberate usage of seeing clearly, think of the wording in that statement: I have not found many scum with scumhunting, but if left alive, I will find scum anyway. How is that possible if not by scumhunting?

By my ROLE. And catching scum nightkilling.

Because I am in fact a town powerhouse this game, even if I have not been as much of use as I had anticipated.

Watcher is a town powerhouse role. I am fully aware of its strength in a setup. I was also saying that I have not gotten much use out of it. This was all laid out fairly explicitly.

However, since I doubt I will survive tonight, I need to get the best reads in the game so far, and thus, cannot afford to overlook any minute detail that may mean the difference between victory and defeat for the town.

My problem at this point is that I basically think everyone is town.

We have yourself, Cabby, and Kitty as 100% confirmed town and Grinny as 99% confirmed town thanks to the Vinny result on him. It will be guaranteed at least three of you will live to see day six, and thus, guaranteed at least one of you will live to see day seven, if going by the worst-case scenarios of no scum factions being eliminated, no crosskills, and no overlapping kills. (All of which are distinctly possible. And obviously, we are aiming for dead scum.) Though this is plenty to get us close to a guaranteed win, it is not enough to secure one.

Here is another one where I say as such: I, being a town watcher, was going to watch Nally and guarantee Nally lived...or that if Nally died, we could catch scum killing her. The scum would be forced to kill me to kill Nally. Thus, why I was going to die. (Or so I thought.)

I am a watcher. My results are what I have claimed.

[Aunt Jemina]

Then i guess I'm confused on how you watched and saw no one visit an ineligible target, meaning you would not be able to watch him, as defined by "ineligible".

I got an answer from the moderator. Were my watch to fail, the result I would get is that my action was not successful.

Thus, my watch did not fail.
For absolute proof, I am of course following up with a question I know the answer to already, about whether my action would fail or succeed if I targeted a hider hiding. (I know the answer to be that my action would succeed, as again, this is the result in my inbox. A nobody visited result, rather than an action failed result.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Rach, deary, I already did fullclaim:

Scarlet Witch, town watcher. On night one, I targeted ArcAngel9 (nobody visited). On night two, the only person who I saw visiting Nally N2 was BulbyFenny. N3, the only name I saw visiting Kitty was BulbyFenny. I decided to target BulbyFenny N4, and saw nobody visiting him. Last night, I targeted Nally, but I saw nobody visiting.

[Aunt Jemina]

2) The hider in the setup has to be a weird variant which can be directly targeted by other power roles, that is rarely (if ever?) seen outside a defunct open setup called "Hard Boiled" (Despite this variant not being on the Hider wiki page and the mod linking to the wiki when queried about Hider role interaction)

Hold on for a bit, deary.

I need to see if I can clarify something with the mod.
Because the mod, if I understood his wording correctly, just told me that my watch would in fact fail. But that makes no sense, since if my watch were to fail, he also said I would get a result making this obvious...yet my result was as if it had succeeded. I'm not comprehending this. It should not be possible, unless I am missing something or misinterpreting his wording. Yet I know the result is there all the same, and need to figure out a way to ask the moderator and get a productive answer.

Well, neither are you.

On the contrary, just because I refuse to reveal the credentials does not mean they cease to exist. Cabby's the only one with more than myself.

it said in the pm. I worded it carefully as not not quote directly.

I can confirm that Quicksilver is mentioned in my role PM as being my brother, though I dare not paraphrase the flavor behind it. Needless to say, we are Magneto's children but no longer villains, as a quick search will show. If she was not already confirmed town, this would be enough to push Rach into the category for me.

[Aunt Jemina]

On the contrary, just because I refuse to reveal the credentials does not mean they cease to exist. Cabby's the only one with more than myself.

Point of clarity: though true, I must admit that I do prefer playing over moderating, and that I am not as actively involved in moderating as I should be. However, I intend to run a game under this name soon for those who are interested. (I am looking to make a Mini Normal.)

(expired on 2014-07-29 14:16:16)

till Day 6 Deadline

I would additionally like to point out that our deadline is 1.5 days away.

That is not a great amount of time to do much. Particularly depending on the strength of Zexxy's V/LA. (If his V/LA means he cannot access the site at all, he cannot move his vote.) If you wish to focus on anything aside from a lynch, it must be done with haste, as focusing on not no-lynching should be a priority.

[Aunt Jemina]

Get that mod clarification, and I'll lynch displaced instead.

Mod clarification (I believe) received: my watch did in fact fail, however, the result I received of no one visiting was because the action failed. I believe that is what the mod is saying. (His wording is yet again not exactly as clear as I would prefer.) This is a bit of a paraphrase, so I can attempt a rewording if this is not clear.

[Aunt Jemina]

My vote is on vezzy, deary. That is who I would lynch.
If not vezzy, then our newcomer vetty.

I believe ceddy to be sweet. More than Grinny, who is somewhat confirmed town even.
He is less sweet than Zexxy, Rach, and Beasty.
I do not have him as such a strong read that I value his life over my own, thus, if given the choice between a no-lynch, a lynch on ceddy, or a lynch on myself, I am choosing to lynch ceddy as my read can feasibly be wrong.
But if I had my choice, he would not be lynched. vezzy/vetty are my top picks for being scum.

[Aunt Jemina]

For the moment, I will put out a tentative

vote: vezokpiraka

, and would advise not to lynch ceddy.

[Aunt Jemina]

vote aj

until she speaks

I am here, and I request you unvote momentarily, as being voted by vetty and Grinny is likely, and if beasty were to also join, I would be lynched prematurely. We have two weeks, and I have much to say.

Aunt J can start off with who killed Cabd, then we can lynch them and end this game.

Regrettably, I did not see anyone target Cabby. This does not necessarily rule out a limited-shot ninja, but does make the possibility remote of any role other than a full-ninja (or godfather).

Of the two I think Auntie is less likely to be scum, so
VOTE: Displaced

Though no longer relevant, I would like to point out that I heavily discourage the mindset, "of the two", as it creates a false dilemma in thinking that one of us must flip sour, when that will not be the case. All it will secure is two mislynches, which my sweet flip will prove.

You'd better fucking not disregard my reads tomorrow. If you let either AJ or PV squirm away and scumwin You'll have a gallon of vitriol to deal with postgame

Believe it or not, I am actually listening to this about Grinny. (Albeit not for ceddy's reasons. He is entirely wrong on them.) I feel that if a DC player were to exist, Grinny is the most likely candidate. There are multiple reasons for this, that I hope to get into later today, but I will not be lynching Grinny today, as hunting for the last Marvel takes priority over hunting for a possible last DC, and he cannot be the last Marvel.

It should be noted that while I would obviously prefer the lynching of scum, if there is any day to lynch me, it must be today. If there are two scum remaining in the game, today is the day before mylo/lylo. As mislynching me in mylo/lylo would near-assuredly doom the town to a loss, it cannot be done tomorrow. There is simply too much risk. Thus, the lynch must be achieved on me today or never at all.

However, a consequence of this is that you will likely require back-to-back lynches of scum in order to win. Thus, I request that before you are to lynch me, you give me a chance to finish displaying my logic, in particular, my logic on Grinny and vezzy, with a side of vetty's slot.

AJ should have some insight as to who kill Cabd. That or AJ herself are probably the last scum. Of note, the destroyed flavor was present again. I'm not sure what that means, as it wasn't present before the last night.

The main insight I can give you is the confirmation that it is not a 1x/non-consecutive ninja. My other services are mainly through my deductive prowess. Though you may all believe myself to be sour, I know for a fact I am not. So while you may not trust my word, you have it all the same: I am a competent player. My resume this game since D3 has demonstrated it alone;

• I strongly advocated Tussy was DC scum.
  
• I correctly deduced that there was a serial killer.
  
• I helped drive the lynch through on mozzy, the aforementioned serial killer.
  
• I correctly honed in on Nero being scum.
  
• I correctly called out ceddy as being sweet.

I push these points not as a defense of my alignment, but a plea for you to listen to my wisdom once I have finished presented it. There are other pieces of knowledge that I have been able to figure out. These are things that have not been decisively proven, but which I have managed to infer from the facts I have before me through a combination of public knowledge and private knowledge of my role.

The "executed" flavor belongs to mozzy, our serial killer. This can be shown by the fact that it disappears after mozzy's lynch. On a flavor note, it is additionally appropriate for the character of Sin that mozzy was.
The "disappeared" flavor is the DC scum. This is evident by its absence the last two nights after the lynching of the third DC. Furthermore, I know from my own role that the killer of Nally and Cabby was a ninja, and a ninja on the team with a tracker is not a likely design decision--in fact, I consider it an impossible one from jason.
The "destroyed" flavor is the Marvel scum faction's kill flavor. They likely targeted Kotty's protection or BulbyFenny for each night before N5. This is more probable than the alternative of them choosing not to kill.
The last Marvel is near-assuredly either a full ninja or a Godfather with track/watch immunity. The latter is distinctly possible given the strength of town power roles this game, and also given previous jason-modded games.
There is a high probability of there being a last DC scum, both fearing being caught by myself and faking the death of their faction.

I will elaborate on any of these on request in spite of having already explained most of them. Yet you can take my word for them that they are the case. I can understand an apprehension to trust these words while I live, but know them true when I flip sweet.

That being said, I would request you also listen to my reads, as I feel like they are quite likely to be accurate.

In this case, I feel like this is our best bet to hit scum. And I will be explaining as soon as I compile everything that has led me to this conclusion:
VOTE: vezokpiraka.
Kitty, Zexxy, beasty, and Rach are all sweet for certain. I additionally feel vetty's sweet, though were I to be wrong on one of my reads, it would be him. Grinny is either DC or town, but in either case, not a priority until Marvel scum (vezzy) has flipped.

[Aunt Jemina]

So basically immune to everything? That seems rather powerful, Auntie. I thought GF was only showing up as innocent to cops, but still seeable by trackers/watchers? And that ninjas were invisible to trackers/watchers but show up as guilty to cops?

Yes, deary.

It is possible the role we are dealing with is a ninja, who is invisible to trackers and watchers yet not immune to cops.
However, it is also possible the role we are dealing with is a Godfather, who not only shows up as innocent to cops, but also is immune to watchers and trackers.

This is, indeed, quite the powerful role, thus why its existence is not assured. However, you were in Dr. Who Mafia, so you should be aware that it did in fact exist: dramonic, the Time Lord Godfather, functioned in this manner. I was his scumbuddy. He was immune to everything...except for the nightkill which claimed his life. I can track down the messages to refresh your memory of this, but I remember this quite vividly as I was the one there in the quicktopic.

[Aunt Jemina]

Well dang it I want to know who killed Cabd

The killer of Cabby is the last Marvel ("Black") scum, either a ninja or a godfather.

As we cannot rely on my role to catch them, we must instead rely on the old-fashioned method: scumhunting.

My conclusion is that vezzy is sour, thus my vote on him. So while I may not have found scum with my role, I believe I have found scum by my play. I will elaborate once I have compiled my notes.

[Aunt Jemina]

Assuming AJ is town, my suspicion is on PeregrineV. Assuming some kind of ninja/godfather role, it is possible that the scum actually thought he was town.
Thoughts?

I think that, were he sour, I would likely be mislynched right now and we would be in night.

It is possible he would play a long-game of deception, but this does not match what I am familiar with of Grinny's sour play.

We literally have a vt right now in aj cause she can't see the killer and she is the most obvioua scum but we want to mislynch again?

This, dearies, is a scumslip from vezzy.

He is calling me essentially a VT while insisting that I am "obvious scum". It shows cognitive dissonance. He does not believe myself to be sour. He believes (perhaps knows) myself to be sweet. Furthermore, my request was not to spare my life. It was to grant me the time to finish writing my notes and leave them for use after my death. Vezzy has absolutely no reason to fear these notes if he were sweet, as they would be wrong and he could show them wrong, while insisting I was scum for having made them.

However, vezzy does not wish to risk myself compiling a successful case against him, as were I to do so, he would end up lynched himself. Because he fears my competency, knows I am right, and that if I am allowed the time to put my thoughts forth, he will end up dead. (We have two weeks; he is insisting we quicklynch myself in less than 48 hours. If you do not see this as suspicious, I know not what to tell you.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Is this L-1? I feel like I have done nothing at all this game.

Yes, deary. And by lynching me, you will continue to have done nothing. I do not ask for you to lynch another player. (Although I would obviously prefer the lynch of scum over the lynch of town.) I do ask that you not rob me of my chance to have done something by leaving your vote on me so recklessly. By letting me live and make my cases, you will by proxy have done something this game. Whereas by lynching me prematurely, you have accomplished nothing but hastening lylo.

PereV Vezo Vetto
in that order for possible scum ^

Deary, though this order may work assuming either one scum or Grinny as one of the two scum, I would STRONGLY urge you to lynch vezzy first, and if you unvote me and give me the chance to explain, I can show you why.

[Aunt Jemina]

(We have two weeks; he is insisting we quicklynch myself in less than 48 hours. If you do not see this as suspicious, I know not what to tell you.)

I would additionally point out that vezzy has been saying we should lynch me ever since D4, and has taken that stance to the exclusion of all other content. (This, in fact, is one of the main reasons I suspect vezzy is sour, as I will be demonstrating.) He has only now stepped up his push on me, out of necessity.

Yesterday, he pushed me but not this hard.
D5, he pushed me but not this hard.
D4, he pushed me but not this hard.

The only logical reason for his push on me to be stronger is that I made my intention clear: write up the case for why he is sour, and then let my words be vindicated by my sweet flip. This would be disastrous to him if the town were to listen, and given the strength behind my words, this was a likely outcome. If you do not believe me, iso him yourself.

[Aunt Jemina]

Slight exaggeration on my part thanks to faulty memory. vezzy did in fact vote me D4.

vote aj

Today is the day we lynch last marvel scum.

However, he unvoted, moved to ceddy, and then to mozzy. It should be noted that vezzy has had me as a sour-read for the majority of the game--the entire game without a change of read on me is something that very rarely comes from a sweet player, as their reads do not typically stay that static. (For any players here wondering about this, do think: of the players currently alive, is there any player your read has been the same on for the entirety of the game? I know that none of mine have been.)

We are finally lynching this scum?

vote AJ

This is his content throughout the rest of the game, aside from a defense against Nally:

VOTE: vezokpiraka

Read my Iso again and think if this is who you want to be voting.

And a rolefish on cop-confirmed town Zexxy:

Did ZZZX claim?

Literally the entirety of his posting other than that is saying to lynch me, and never once a solid reason for me to actually be sour.

As I said, I will be demonstrating this in full when I post the case.
I need the time to actually

show

the case, which requires a lack of lynching me.

[Aunt Jemina]

some one hammer this is boring

Deary, you should

NEVER

take this stance in a game.

EVER.

If the game is boring, you do not entertain yourself by mislynching blindly (and a lynch on myself without truly believing me to be scum is precisely that: lynching without vision) and bringing yourself into lylo.
You entertain yourself by doing work and attempting to find scum.

Even if you believe yourself to have a guaranteed win, this is a dangerous mentality particularly if it turns out you do not.

Thus, why players here should actually be thinking if they are sweet.

I'll do this, but if you can show interactions between Vezok and known scum, it would help more. Instances of distancing or scumbuddy deflections or weak bussing have more weight than pushing for your lynch.

It will come with the full case, I assure you. The simple version is that vezzy vastly exaggerates his participation in scum lynches, and his actual stances have been convenient for a scum player to have.

I want you lynched. I don't care about your reads or anything. You are so obvious scum it hurts.
The case you are trying to push on me with what you call a 'slip' is overreaching and you know it.

Naturally you do not care about my reads. Were you to be sweet, me having you as my prime suspect would be reason not to. As you are sour, you do not care about my read on you.

However, you do in fact fear it. There is no reason you would "just want me lynched" otherwise. Actual town players have, or should be, reconsidering the facts off of what is known. Grinny and vetty are both making efforts at this. Rach I believe is making efforts at this. Kitty may be making efforts. Zexxy currently is not, but has been on previous days. You have said I have been sour for essentially the entire game without pause...and never stopped to analyze this conclusion. You say I am so obviously scum that it hurts, yet you present literally no case for why I am scum. If I were actually so obviously scum that it hurt, you would be able to present strong evidence supporting it. But you have chosen not to, as doing so would be inconvenient; it would force you to reveal your bad reasoning for the bad read, weakening your position today and on future days.

Many players have noted my extreme sincerity. That observation exists for a reason; it is accurate. I have hidden nothing and told the truth the whole game, and done my best to lynch scum each day. Yet you are insisting the opposite, that I am obviously scum. Do tell in what way. Kitty, Zexxy, and beasty are voting me through a combination of apathy and POE. None of them seem to truly believe me to be sour in spite of this, merely doing so on auto-pilot. You alone insist I am actually scum. I do not think it possible for you to present a logical case for why I am sour so strongly as to justify your actions. This is of course thanks to the factor that I have not been playing to a scum wincon; I have been hunting scum the whole game. I am hunting scum even now.

You, however, are just posting what amounts to little more than pushing for my lynch with haste and without reason. As demonstrated by the difference between your reply and my reply in length.

To address your defense about my point, I will admit that it is not quite as solidly defined as I would prefer, but it is not inaccurate. You said I cannot see the killer; this is accurate. You said I am by extent essentially VT. This implies that what I am claiming you know to be true. You are trying to appeal to players (and have done so successfully) that I am nothing more than a VT in value, thus, they can afford to mislynch me. However, your wording betrays you: by having done so, you have revealed that you know myself to in fact be a mislynch.

It is as you have said yourself: were you to actually believe what you say about me being sour, then you would not care about my words. If you did not care about my words, you would not care about my claim. You would be pushing that I am scum, period. You would not be pushing that I am of equal value to a VT, and am scum.

[Aunt Jemina]

I'll hammer when everyone agrees that they have said all they plan to say for today.

Do please include me in the list of everyone, deary.

I will announce when I have said my peace, and it will be after having finished my cases, on vezzy and why not Grinny or yourself, along with my overall thoughts should the game continue after vezzy's lynch. This will take a while, but will be done well before the deadline.

[Aunt Jemina]

AJ I gave the reason of your lynch. It gives high info with a high chance to hit scum.

And what, pray tell, deary, is the information that you will gain from the lynch right at this moment?

This has been something that players have been saying at least since yesterday: lynching me will give info. Not once have they explained what that information would actually be. This is because none exists. The only thing that would be confirmed from my lynching is the existence of a ninja. Knowing a ninja exists does nothing to help you

catch

the ninja, deary. Thus, it provides nothing useful.

It will in fact confirm my opinions were sincere, and thus, that my stances can be trusted...but I have not yet finished my compiling of these stances. I haven't explained my vezzy, vetty, or Grinny reads, nor my final thoughts overall. Thus, by lynching me before I have had the chance to give this, you are not gaining info; you are robbing the town of that info.

I will give you that from an objective standpoint, I do in fact have a chance to hit scum. But as I am sweet, it is absolutely vital that no miscalculations are made if I am mislynched, here. Thus, while I have a chance of flipping scum to you, if there is another player who has a much higher chance, I would urge you to if not pursue that lynch at least explain the read.

Kitty and myself are the only two players that I can think of who have presented reads on the entire living playerbase. Vetty I know is close but I am uncertain he has finished that. Grinny I imagine to be working on one, yet has not visibly shown it. You say I have a chance of flipping scum, but to you, who are the others, and more importantly, why?

These are all things you should be thinking about, deary. You do not necessarily need an answer for them all instantly, yet you certainly should be thinking of some answers to have.

[Aunt Jemina]

If you are town then we exactly know that all cop clears are 100% clear and that the enemie has a ninja.

This is explicitly not the case, as I have explained about the possibility of a Godfather.

Furthermore, myself flipping sweet is no different than believing me to be sweet. If you believe me to be sweet, then you learn nothing from the flip that you did not already know or suspect. This even applies if you feel that my logic about a Godfather does not hold: you "learn" the cop clears are cleared...which is a fact that has already been established.

AJ see the thing is. If you don't get lynched scum is going to just keep you alive most likely. We have some lynches to spare. Just be okay with it. I know this sounds bad , but it keeps WIFOM away.

I am fully aware of this. This is, in fact, the reason why I am willing to let myself be lynched today. However, do not pretend that you are lynching me for being scum. Also do not assume you have victory when it is not a given factor. (Something which I will explain when I have the time to do so.) In particular, we do not have "some lynches" to spare; we have only today's for sure.

All of this is not even my main point. What I am asking from you is to temporarily unvote so the risk of hammering is taken off of me (I do not work well on large-scale projects under imminent threat of my demise), so that I can finish my work. This would allow you to lynch scum on future days as close to assured as can be reached.

In other words, I maintain my stance. If you look at your reason for wanting me dead, it is not because you are looking to lynch scum. It is not because you are going to gain information. It is because you are on cruise control and are no longer putting effort into finding scum, under the potentially-erroneous assumption you have won the game already. I am not fighting my lynch, as I agree it a necessity for the game to continue. I am, however, fighting the mindset behind the lynch. I am being lynched for reasons that are incredibly dangerous for town players to think.

So to clarify, I will let the lynch happen, but I am requesting an unvote so that when the lynch happens, it is for the right reasons, and that players will know all of my thoughts.

[Aunt Jemina]

AJ has good logic sometimes. Also let's go to night time.

These two do not work together, deary. If my logic is good, then you would be listening to it and unvoting me so that I would have the chance to work on my final logic without pressure. Not wishing to go into the night.

There is literally no harm in simply unvoting. Do you think you cannot simply place the vote back a couple of days later? My request is not to avert the lynch; my request is to pause the lynch, and one simple unvote is all I ask for to do my work.

and I have been scum reading aj for a while now.

Deary, your scumread on me spawns from a habit that I am particularly prone to doing as a sweet player but not often as a sour player. When I see myself in a player,

I defend that player

. I saw myself in you, deary. Thus, I defended you. If there is a reason beyond that for which you suspect me, you have yet to state it.

This is what I mean by thinking things through. You are scumreading me for something that you have not reassessed the cause of. You have been in enough games by now to witness sweet players defending you throughout the entirety of a game by now, have you not? Did you suspect them during those games for defending you? And yet they were sweet all the same.

AJ I dont think there is more to be said.

This is because you have not put thought into it.

I most certainly have more to say, for instance, as I most definitely am placing great thought into things right now. I am deeply, deeply concerned that our alleged auto-win is anything but.

[Aunt Jemina]

Apologies, dearies. I have been on an unannounced V/LA sorting matters in life.

Vetty, I find your terms acceptable, and will continue my work. However, as I was dealing with issues in my life, that work is not yet close to completion.

With your word and Grinny's assurance that no hammer is coming, I can work without stress. I am rather unfortunately occupied tomorrow, but I will be free for Sunday to work here. Can you wait until at least Monday? (It may take a while longer; I will post to inform you if this is such, but know that it would not take much longer if so and that I will be completed well before deadline.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Omg.
I'm done. If this isn't hammered in the next few hours I might do something I'll regret.

Claim scum and admit defeat?

Hmm, it appears I have the time to sneak in a post today. Not enough time for work to be done, but enough to make a post.

If you are scum, please do us a favor and either just hammer yourself, or just stop. Delaying isn't going to get you anywhere. And what input you provide will just be ignored.

This would be valid were I to be actually sour. One of the things I will be doing before my demise is demonstrating precisely why the mindset you have all taken is in error. I am quite aware of the frustration regarding the delay, as I have encountered this frustration many times before under my alternative name and gotten mislynched in the past because of it. That point, however, is not alignment-indicative, and though procrastination is a habit to be discouraged, so too is the mindset I have seen displayed. (However, I am planning this as my final tangent. I will not waste valuable time on it; it will be a bonus thrown in for the hopes that it does good showing you how you

should

be thinking. The important work will come first.)

We will look at what you say to help us identify the remaining scum.

And I need no other satisfaction than this.

I would like to get the game moving forwards as well.

Deary, the game will not move forward with my lynch.
My lynch will give you a townflip by itself.
What moves the game forward is

analysis

, of which, only Grinny and I appear to be doing.
You have given up on it.
Zexxy has given up on it.
Beasty has given up on it.
Kitty has given up on it.

All of you are assuming that the game will move forward by my lynch mystically moving the game forward. By lacking a clear explanation on how and why, you prove you do not. Commentary on it will come tomorrow in detail, but in essence, when I flip town, what is to stop you from taking this exact attitude to the next designated target? What is to stop that target from flipping town just as I will? Blind luck? Tell me that off of what you have right now, be honest. Would your mindset for tomorrow be any different than it is today? You have shown no inclination towards such. Thus why I need to change it before my demise.

My goal is not only to show you the scum, but to also challenge you to follow it through and think, analyze, and realize yourself.

For AJ, if you are not posting Sunday, I'm hammer.

I guarantee you that I will post on Sunday even if I must pull an all-nighter to get it done before Monday. However, it is important to define time zones and what you define "Sunday" as.

I do not define Sunday as beginning at midnight and ending at midnight. I define it as starting when daylight hits (approximately at five AM) and ending when daylight hits (approximately at five AM). I live in America. Let us use the standard of eastern time. This would mark the beginning of Sunday in three hours from the time of my post, and thus the end of Sunday 27 hours and 10 minutes from it. Is this timetable acceptable?

[Aunt Jemina]

Mod:

please delete my previous post, as it contains broken links. Here is the post fixed.

Omg.
I'm done. If this isn't hammered in the next few hours I might do something I'll regret.

Claim scum and admit defeat?

Hmm, it appears I have the time to sneak in a post today. Not enough time for work to be done, but enough to make a post.

If you are scum, please do us a favor and either just hammer yourself, or just stop. Delaying isn't going to get you anywhere. And what input you provide will just be ignored.

This would be valid were I to be actually sour. One of the things I will be doing before my demise is demonstrating precisely why the mindset you have all taken is in error. I am quite aware of the frustration regarding the delay, as I have encountered this frustration many times before under my alternative name and gotten mislynched in the past because of it. That point, however, is not alignment-indicative, and though procrastination is a habit to be discouraged, so too is the mindset I have seen displayed. (However, I am planning this as my final tangent. I will not waste valuable time on it; it will be a bonus thrown in for the hopes that it does good showing you how you

should

be thinking. The important work will come first.)

We will look at what you say to help us identify the remaining scum.

And I need no other satisfaction than this.

I would like to get the game moving forwards as well.

Deary, the game will not move forward with my lynch.
My lynch will give you a townflip by itself.
What moves the game forward is

analysis

, of which, only Grinny and I appear to be doing.
You have given up on it.
Zexxy has given up on it.
Beasty has given up on it.
Kitty has given up on it.

All of you are assuming that the game will move forward by my lynch mystically moving the game forward. By lacking a clear explanation on how and why, you prove you do not. Commentary on it will come tomorrow in detail, but in essence, when I flip town, what is to stop you from taking this exact attitude to the next designated target? What is to stop that target from flipping town just as I will? Blind luck? Tell me that off of what you have right now, be honest. Would your mindset for tomorrow be any different than it is today? You have shown no inclination towards such. Thus why I need to change it before my demise.

My goal is not only to show you the scum, but to also challenge you to follow it through and think, analyze, and realize yourself.

For AJ, if you are not posting Sunday, I'm hammer.

I guarantee you that I will post on Sunday even if I must pull an all-nighter to get it done before Monday. However, it is important to define time zones and what you define "Sunday" as.

I do not define Sunday as beginning at midnight and ending at midnight. I define it as starting when daylight hits (approximately at five AM) and ending when daylight hits (approximately at five AM). I live in America. Let us use the standard of eastern time. This would mark the beginning of Sunday in three hours from the time of my post, and thus the end of Sunday 27 hours and 10 minutes from it. Is this timetable acceptable?[/quote]

[Aunt Jemina]

I wish to begin by contrasting vezzy's play this game to a recently-completed game which held an equivalent stage: late-game, where things had mostly been solved, in Organic Chemistry, may have a superficial resemblance to this game, when you see posts like these.

vote pv

Lynch majiffy tomorrow and win this.

I kinda want to lynch majiffy first then pere.

vote majiffy

However, even then, you can see that vezzy is not putting all of his eggs in one basket. Here, he is focusing exclusively on myself, whereas in that game, he was thinking ahead and had a clear idea of what to do with the flip. This is made stronger here:

Ok.

If saki is not scum and bulba is town I hope I won't yell too much.

vote metal sonic

Though his posting is minimalistic, he is rather clearly advancing the game forward with this.

I want to hear who got the track and then lynch majiffy.

I think we can end this day now.

Lynch jiffy and then wicked.

vote zzzx

These posts continue to show it even stronger. He continues to take on a role appropriate for that of a town confirmed: in a position of control, where he has a clear plan.

Majiffy and one of wicked and marquus are the last scums.

I think we have enough lynches left to kill all if them.

Here, he is chaining lynches, rather than betting them all on Majiffy. I think it fair to compare his scumread on Majiffy of that game to his scumread of myself in this game, and yet he handled it entirely different in that game.

Further back, we continue to see him holding a notably different attitude towards players.

also my results atm are noot useful as I dont have a guilty yet. And I can be used to draw the night kill.

Thoughts?

It is ok if you don't post anymore. We already know you are scum.

Observe here. Here, he knows Zexxy to be sour, and yet he treats him with respect. He also (as evident by the posts above this which are chronologically later) clearly has planned out the game after Zexxy were to flip sour, and is not rushing to meet that. He wished to make productive usage of the time in the day rather than speed-lynching the guilty, which is in stark contrast to this game.

I agree with lc pretty much.
Unless it's a very hard lylo I'm not thinking about lynching him.

I think the only connection I got out of mollie is majiffy scum.

Here we see him doing actual scumhunting in spite of the guilty. He has planned things out even to lylo. He has a clear idea of a sour player, thinking it to be Majiffy. However, he does not bank the entirety of the game on it. He does not post "lol, just lynch Zx, then Majiffy; that's game." He does not post "just end this already". He continues to give content the entire time.

Why would I track someone I said is scummy? They aren't going to perform the kill.
Also seeing that mollie flipped scum pr makes me think all inventors are town.

Wicked: Are you scum or just very dumb?

LC is scum only if scum want to shoot themselves in the foot. Why would he send me the track two nights in a row?

I would like to havr bulba check in before we end the day.

Note here how he has posting which is productive. Of particular importance,

he waits for a player to check in before ending the day

. Whereas here, with this prospect existing in the form of at least Grinny, he rejects it and insists on my lynch.

Town: lying cat, pv.
Not sure: saki(pv became confirmed cause of jking acfan. It would be wonky if saki was scum)
Null: marquis, wicked
Scum: majiffy

Forgot this guy existed: bulba
I think he got confirmed.

Jailkeep to pv and he jails either me or lc.
lc sends track to bulba.

Note that vezzy, as a sweet player, actually gave a full reads list, and a plan of action of what to do with it. He additionally provides reasoning behind his reads. Here, on his AJ read, he has given none.

Don't put scum at l-1.

We need to talk.

I probably need protection with the jailkeep. The inventor should send it to a good townie who is not lc.
Let me check what we should do.

I would further point out this comment is about as much of an inverse to vezzy's play this game as can be. In Organic Chemistry as a town player, vezzy took his time, to create town cohesion and formulate a strategy and a backup plan were he to end up being wrong. He was careful to make sure every angle is covered.

In this game, he is pushing a singular angle above all others, rejecting any additional input. In this game, he is rushing us to lynch me. He has nothing stated for my townflip. He has nothing existing after it. This lack of advanced planning simply does not come from a sweet-vezzy.

unvote

What did lying cat claim?
Didn't he also claim inventor?

Note here his care to attention and detail about the claims. He makes sure to check his facts and get the town in a winning position.

[Aunt Jemina]

If you wish for proof that vezzy this game is in stark contrast to the vezzy of that game, yet are too lazy to bring up his iso, let me save you the time and point out what I mean.

Hammer her. Now.

Pushing through my lynch, rather than taking time.

Omg.
I'm done. If this isn't hammered in the next few hours I might do something I'll regret.

Are we seriously waiting 8 days to end this game?

Instead of respectfully treating me as "obvscum", he is being demeaning towards others. You should have an idea of his town tone by reading the ending of Organic Chemistry: respectful, calm, in control, but not issuing commands and instead asking things of others. Here, he is showing agitation, a lack of strength, and is being insulting to others.

I think deadpool is the coolest marvel character. Do you agree?

Never really got into deadpool as he came out after the time I was heavily reading comic books.

You must be quite old then.
Who was your favourite back in the day?

I think deadpool is the coolest marvel character. Do you agree?

The sky is blue and Thor is now female.
What do you think of that?

It should be noted that in Organic Chemistry, vezzy was focused the entire time. He did not post fluff. Every action he did was furthering a town wincon. Here, he is employing fluff. And what little 'content' he is giving is repeating the same mantra over and over again, adding nothing new. (Note that every single post he made in Organic Chemistry added something productive that was not there previously.) Things like this, which are increasingly familiar:

C'mon pere. Just hammer this scum.

Nobody has anything else to say goddammit.
Lynch aj scun and end this. Stop draging.

The same post made with different wording, and yet conveying exactly the same thing.

Even when he has a more meaty post, it still lacks bacon and at

best

(if you feel like being extra-generous) would be sausage.

@aj : I have been pushing on you since day 2 I think.
I want you lynched. I don't care about your reads or anything. You are so obvious scum it hurts.
The case you are trying to push on me with what you call a 'slip' is overreaching and you know it.

Here, he defends himself against one of my attacks on him. He also points out the timeframe for which he has been attacking me. And yet, both of those are not productive. The main point of this post was the middle part, for which you will recognize a continued theme: an insistence on lynching me without considering anything else, without showing care towards my alignment, and writing me off as being "obvious scum" without reason.

This, again, is in stark contrast to his treatment of Majiffy in Organic Chemistry. There, he had it in the plans to lynch Majiffy consistently, but he did not insist nor force it. He did in fact consider other options, and did in fact care about Majiffy's alignment, even giving reasoning for why he had concluded Jiffy was sour. Here, no such thing exists. He has remained unmoving on his position without any indication that he has tried to solve the game.

Are you retarded town?
We literally have a vt right now in aj cause she can't see the killer and she is the most obvioua scum but we want to mislynch again?

Aside from the cognitive dissonance I have already mentioned in this post, I would like to again emphasize the insults and the tone they carry. In Organic Chemistry, he did in fact question the intelligence of players, but he directed it at specific players and attached lengthy inquiries to it and mainly was using this as a platform to elaborate on his opinions or to form some. In other words, his insults (which were of lesser vulgarity) served to allow him better information.

Here, he is being demeaning to everyone and he does nothing to give reasoning. ("AJ is basically a VT" is

not

reasoning for lynching a player. It may technically count, but it is

not

telling why I should be lynched above any other player, i.e., why I am more likely sour than any of the others.)

Can we lynch aj and end this?

vote aj

Again, note his certainty in me being scum. He says that lynching me will 'end this'. Even when scumreading Majiffy, he had plans beyond that. The game was never solved to the point where he would give nothing additional.

We need more people to check in and vote aj.

And again, here he shows the same trend. He does not give any hint towards thought being placed into his action, and I posit that this is because he holds none.

Literally the last thing in his iso that even remotely resembles his play in Organic Chemistry is this quote.

I am willing to lynch luca blight instead of aj. Josh…b has weire interactions with the flipped marvel.

This post is vaguely similar to his reasoning on voting Grinny first, and earlier, Jiffy then Wicked. However, even though the content is superficially similar, the delivery falls flat when placed in direct comparison to those.


You may point out that this is but a mere single game, where vezzy was confirmed town. This is true, which is why it is merely my introduction to the vezzy case, as an understanding of why he is sour requires a much broader experience than one game's worth of meta. (The full case will involve a full meta, his posting this game separate from meta, and interactions with the flipped scum.) However, I feel it to hold strongly even on its own, as it is a recently-completed contemporary game in similar circumstances with easily-drawn parallels to situations.

[Aunt Jemina]

yeah when i wanted to lynch him prior you kept telling me no

This was through various different circumstances. Either I felt him a less viable lynch than alternatives I was pursuing, or I was not scumreading him. (Depending on the timeframe of the game.) However, now I am telling you to lynch him after I die. I hesitate to use 100% certainty thanks to a bad experience in having done so (I consider it my greatest failure in fact, and it is the main reason I insist on strong logical posting under my name here), but I can near-guarantee you that if there is only one scum remaining, you will end the game by lynching vezzy.

However, in stark contrast to vezzy, I am not willing to bank the game on that. Though I have the ego to think my read is solid, it is not impossible for me to be in error. (Albeit incredibly unlikely so. Respect your elders; they are skilled at what they do.) Additionally, it is not impossible for there to be an additional scum in the game. (I am no longer certain of this, particularly if the last Marvel is a mere ninja and not a stronger power role, however, it remains possible as I will elaborate on after I have finished the vezzy case.)

I assure you that I am not even close to done posting, and will continue posting throughout the night. (How quickly I post mainly depends on the speed at which I can type; this old lady is not a fast typist.)

[Aunt Jemina]

For some further meta, you may look at any of the games listed here.

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Let's lynch josh then. That will prove I am right and then we can lynch kagami for wanting a townie dead.

I realize vezzy died early in that game, thus making it a less direct comparison, but take a look at the tone here. It is very similar to Organic Chemistry: "let's lynch" as a group, worded politely and yet firmly, without a demanding voice. He held politeness in a suggestion/request rather than forcing his hand.

However, I can give you a comparison. A roughly equivalent post iso-wise from this game would be this:

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

Either bussing or very tired bulba.

Note that difference in tone is already apparent. In 1567, he was again being (for lack of a better term) "nice". Here, he is being very blunt. He is also lacking inquisitions. This is a statement and a borderline accusation, rather than a question to help him learn BulbyFenny's alignment. This one is even worse:

Why the fuck did someone shoot aronis now.
There were so many better targets.

Even in the early game, Vezzy was highly abrasive, which is in contrast to his demeanor as a sweet player.

The difference exists in other posts as well. Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Because mods that know how to design games don't put N0 investigative roles in the game. I am 99,9% sure that Empking didn't put a gunsmith who can investigate pregame in the game.

This is the closest vezzy comes in 1567 to having the same flat, blunt tone that he has held this game, and yet, even here, his tone is more of explaining his actions and expanding his stances productively. He is answering a question, in a manner reminiscent of Organic Chemistry in that he makes use of the question to further his stances.

In contrast, his posting this game when answering 'questions'?

@Josh: This game is pretty big and I didn't get very engaged in the argument between SG and Yates. I'm thinking one of them is scum, but until I have a solid enough read I prefer to not say anything.

This in response either to Joshy's request for a Yates wagon or to answer why vezzy is less active than he was in other contemporary games. It is directly answering the relevant topic given to him, with nothing additional added in. In fact, he specifically says he is avoiding adding anything additional. ("Until I have a solid enough read, I prefer not to say anything." Is specifically avoiding giving anything productive to the conversation.) He does not use it to launch a platform as he did in 1567 and Organic Chemistry. It is simply there, existing.

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Is everyone here scum?
Who is 99% lyncher. There is no N0 shit going on. If anyone claims they had an action N0 the chance drops to 90%.
N0 investigation is flat-out the most unfun role that can exist.

Again note the contrast between this, and here in our current game. There, though he asks if everyone is scum, his tone is not only more polite, but more informative and more productive. He is not only delivering information, but also trying to receive information and get feedback on his thoughts. (Whereas in this game, he has zero interest in receiving feedback on his thoughts; he simply is interested at pushing them through.)

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Am I voting who?
I should.

vote who

The worst play here is to lynch Josh. If who by some miracle is town he isn't a gunsmith anymore

And I would like to furthermore reinforce this as being the normal for vezzy games when he is sweet: this is light-hearted. Though he is unafraid to say his opinion, he does so productively and without blunt force. He may be delivering a stance, but it is conveyed more as an opinion than a command, especially given his commentary. This again contrasts with what we have from our game, where he is controlling and bullying in his tone.

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Pretty sure josh actually is scum, regardless of whether or not Who is a lyncher.

I'm assuming lyncher counts as "scum," in which case we'd have to get rid of him anyway, and letting him win is a fine way to do it (he would almost certainly leave the game once he's won).

Changing roles was heavily featured in the first game. There were players being recruited to a bulletproof monkery, players being vanillaized, and players passing around an "artefact" that gave them immunity to vanillaizing.

Scum claiming at it's finest.
You want to lynch a player who is prob town in order to remove lyncher? Why not lynch the lyncher?

Here, he again shows the difference between this game and 1567: in 1567, he may have said quickly that Kagami was scum, but he gave elaboration, and it was in the form of questioning. It was him launching an inquiry while elaborating on his opinion. This contrasts with his equivalent posting this game.

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That was me. I didn't think displaced was trying to smear anyone. My impression was that displaced merely wanted to make a post. It isn't like mozamis was the only player that displaced could have chastised for making a gut decision based on a posting style. For example, Aunt Jemina made such a decision on PeregrineV. Anyway, I would have characterized displaced's post as a nothing post - did not reveal any suspicions, did not press anyone, and did not particularly contribute to the discussion. There are several players that fall into that category currently. It is the weekend, though. Personally, I'm going to give them a couple more days and then revisit who is contributing and who is coasting.

This to me seems like scum posting 101. A lot of phrases that say nothing at all. You name people in your posts just for the sake of examples.

Anyone who isn't voting ruffing or zzzx should reread these two guys.

unvote
vote the ruffing

Nearly the same response: "scum claiming in their posting". Entirely different tone behind it. Though this may seem nitpicky, it is in fact valid to point out the entire lack of question marks, as it is proof that he lacks an inquisitive outlook on things. Here, he is commanding people to see his way, rather than asking about what he has seen. (If you think that this quote makes him not scum with Fliggy, though, just wait. That bit is coming in a later section of the case as to why I believe he not only can be, but is very likely scum with, Fliggy.)

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Is this something empking has used before or a lot? I guess I am asking about the "educated" part of your reply. Is it role related or mod related?

Empking used most roles at one point or another.
I don't remember if I saw lynchers in his games, but it's a possibility.
N0 cop with changing role is not though.

Again, this is him, in a sweet game, answering a question fully, and using it to advance a stance. He is making his opinions clear, and is acknowledging the other side of the debate. I am searching through vezzy's iso this game, and I am quite serious: I cannot find a single instance of him doing so this game.

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

UNVOTE:

A lyncher is a player whose wincon is to get another, specific player lynched.

vezok, do you

know

this, or are you guessing?

Guessing. An educated guess though.
And we can always sort them out later. Let's see.

Mod

: If a lyncher would lynch his target does that end the game?

Note his opinions here in 1567. He is again elaborating on his stance, and using it to gather additional information. Furthermore, an important thing to note here is vezzy's wording: "we can always sort them out later". This confirms that Organic Chemistry is no fluke; vezzy, when sweet, has shown a strong tendency to trying to figure the game out. He tries to sort things, and figure out the alignment of key players. Here in this game, he has made no such effort. He has said I am scum, and has not sorted out players aside from insisting that I am.

As a final note from just

that

game, you can look at even his RVS and tell the difference: Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

vote kagami

I like your avi.

Subject: Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

vote kagami

I like your avi.

Why did you ignore a page-plus of not-RVS discussion and drop an RVS vote?

1) I didn't see anything really important that I should comment on.
2) I wanted to make a RVS vote. I like to do that.
3) I was very tired and I wanted to post something.

Note here how he very casually drops a relaxed random vote. When game content is given, he explains why he has done what he did, and moves onward.

In contrast,

vote umbrage

I hope we can all agree this is the superior wagon.

Look here at how he is not only serious, but demanding. He is apparently well-informed as well, whereas in 1567, he was not. There is also very little follow-through.

@umbrage: Care to comment why you self voted?

This is a halfhearted question lacking in the same feeling as his previous post. It is placed there to have something there, but contributes nothing and does nothing.

[Aunt Jemina]

My apologies. That was intended to have every game listed, but I mistakenly hit 'submit' in place of 'preview'.
There are more games that further show the trend, however, I think you have already begun to get the idea, so take note of what I say.

Town vezzy is nice, lighthearted, inquisitive, and informative.
Scum vezzy is rude, serious, demanding, and largely elusive.

[Aunt Jemina]

You just spent a ton of time to paint me as scum?

Yes, deary, and I'm not even close to finished. I've shown two games. You have nine, excluding this one. In addition to the meta outside this game, there is also your play in this game plus the scum interactions.

I made a promise, and I swear to keep it. I will quite literally not rest until I have completed my work. This means I am perfectly willing to pull an all-nighter and am currently in the process of doing so. I do not feel the case I have presented currently is strong enough to hold. It needs to be completed.

Also just in case the stars align and a higher being changes the universe and you somehow flip not scum tell me who we should pursue.

Aside from you, this will be included after the above is finished. The short version is that I am near-certain you are scum, HOWEVER, were you to not be and/or were there to be two scum, it is possible there would be another. It is obviously not Kitty, and also not beasty. However, before my life has expired, I wish to give final thoughts on all of Zexxy, Rach, vetty, and Grinny.

[Aunt Jemina]

(On an extremely technical note, this means that I am likely to exceed the limit set and not finish within the next hour, as I do not anticipate myself typing that rapidly. However, as I am continuing to work and my posts will continue to stream in as I complete them, I feel as if I will finish before vetty so much is around to log in, and thus, the difference will not be noticed. If he is to log in, however, I hope he has it in him to see what I am doing as adequate to wait the needed number of hours for completion, as I am

very

close. I have been working on these reads all day, so they are almost finished. That I have vowed not to sleep until I have finished should show my resolve. It is to the point where were I to pause for a rest, I would deserve to be lynched for having slacked off so close to my goal.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Let us resume the meta discussion where we left off. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

vote Bob

Scum once, scum forever.

This is, yet again, another town game of Vezzy's. Note the difference again: an rvs that is casual. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

And still why would scum declare RVS over when that is the easiest part for them to blend in.

Again, he is inquisitive. Again, he is not forceful. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

Stop fighting about bitmap. You are all most probable townies.
Scum is the seal guyz and strangercougar. Caso builds the wagon. The wagon grows and it becomes the biggest. Nacho backs down for no real reason and sc responds like he can't even touch nacho( they are scumbuddies and sc was subtlety telling naco to back down)

And when he gets reads, note the way he states it. "probable townies". The tone of his request to stop fighting comes across as being a request, not a command. Then his statement about his scumreads is not him forcing his logic on others, but rather, sharing his opinion. Instead of asserting himself, he is simply speaking his mind. This is the third town game where this trend has been shown, and yet is absent from our game.

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I'm not so sure about SC. I feel casso is way more scummy than SC.

Note that he expresses his opinion here, and it is of doubt. You may think he has done so this game, but he has not.

PeregrineV is giving me some bad vibes.His posts where he explains his umbrage vote feels as a very weak reason to vote someone. I'd expect town Pere to try to find scum not hunt Umbrage.

You may think that this counts as an example, but this is not expressing doubt. It is stating doubt. Though I realize this is a subtle difference, it is finer points like this which really

do

define the difference between a player's town game and scum game. Vezzy in 1565, speaking in an active voice, is saying what he feels. ("I'm not sure.") In this game, vezzy is stating things in a more passive voice. ("This leaves me with doubts.")

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

Her tone is town one. Her reaction is a town one.
I just don't feel the scummy about her.

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I just don't see the scummy.
I slightly understand why you think she's scum, but I'm not feeling it. It seems to come from town more than scum.

Exemplified by this posting here. Vezzy, as a sweet player, has feelings, and expresses them: he doesn't feel; he doesn't see. This is in stark contrast to his posting here, which lacks such physical sensations.

This to me seems like scum posting 101.

"Seems like", instead of looks/feels like.

Please tell me you can see how scummy he is.
I don't like Yates at all. The fact that he spoilered pidgey's post because he knew it wasn't what he wanted. That part just screams that he is scum misrepping.
If it was without the spoiler I would've thought he is a townie with a conviction.

Asking others if they see it rather than simply saying he sees it as being scummy. Not liking a player rather than feeling that he is an alignment. Something being screamed rather than seen or felt. All-in-all, this vezzy is showing an extreme lack of sensation.

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I understand that what she did may appear as scummish.
I don't see that as scummish, but as town who doesn't really care about how he votes or what he does. He just does whatever he wants, because he knows he is town and he doesn't need to hide anything.

In addition to further reinforcing that town vezzy uses feelings, I would also like to point out that vezzy shows his own mentality as town: he does whatever he wants, knowing he is town and

feeling no need to hide anything

. It has shown throughout the game, but even in the early game, it is visible. Observe:

@Josh: This game is pretty big and I didn't get very engaged in the argument between SG and Yates. I'm thinking one of them is scum, but until I have a solid enough read

I prefer to not say anything.

As for what is happening now. Pidgey is town. Towniest town ever. He plays like he doesn't have a care in the world. This is not scum play.

Vezzy hid something. It may seem like a trivial thing to hide, one which you can in fact hide as town, but it is still indicative of that differing mindset. Sweet-vezok doesn't hide his feelings; he expresses them, and launches an inquiry. If he were town, then with the Squirly-Yates playing out, he would have asked questions to one or both sides to develop a stronger read. Instead, he merely let it play out. Because he was hiding his thoughts. And again, note the difference in how he stated the townread. Though he did use full stops in 1565, the overall manner in which his read expressed itself was different. Here, his statements are flat, coming to a complete halt. There, his statements were continuous, flowing from one to the other.

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

Spoiler: long post

Sorry, my partner's goal is to make a fool out of himself in EVERY. SINGLE. GAME

unvote. vote Seals

Because we need to club some baby seals. And that's at least a worthy waggon...

No wait.

Unvote. Vote Bulba

Because we need a critical mass of votes in one place.

- Shadow -

RVS Bulba vote. Seems a little out of place.

then he says we should end this day ASAP...

unvote. vote Aegor

LOL. Is that it?

I don't know. You tell me.

Is

that all? Do you not want to explain it? Or is it, in fact, that you simply can't?
Or do you seriously need deeper elaboration?

Slight push on aegor.

I'm not saying you have to factor me into the equation at all. I'm saying that your criteria for Bazinga being town does not exist, because they were never under enough pressure to produce the kind of reactions you'd need to determine alignment.

Do you think all interactions not made under pressure are insubstatial for determining their alignment?

You should really start to look at more in this game than just Coug's attacking you. Your discussion is already going in circles which brings it only barely above the helpfulness of the whole Bitmap banter right now.

-Shadow-

Coaching maybe?

I don't get how bitmap has been immature

Some more or less randomly selected Bitmap quotes:

Also, isn't it better to attack a multitude of people in Day 1 than tunnel someone this early?

Why? Are we making you uncomfortable?

No, you're just being stupid and I'm really tempted to vote you again.

i'm doing it, but i have a short attention span and like to f5 a lot and prod people with one liners.

WHY CAN'T I DAY VIG YOU?

I'm trying to get you lynched because you're obvscum, nothing more

That's hilarious. Also, you're not getting me lynched today. All the major wagon-makers and power players aren't going near my wagon. Have you even seen who's on my wagon? There's you, emo, and bulb. Face it, they all know I'm town and it's pretty damn obvious.

If you don't agree, I could actually agree that "immature" may be overstating it. But the point is: He isn't actually handling the pressure on him well, and nothing he has done has really helped town advance, by either finding better lynch candidates or just diverting the attention away from him. Instead we have pages and pages of pointless, repetetive bickering that's going nowhere and adding nothing new instead of exploring other alternatives.

WK bitmap. Note: Bulba was pushing for bitmap. Bitmap more town.

Shadow hates your playstyle Wisdom.

Could be reason for killing him.

flail

I don't get mislynched often so I'm bailing Shadow out of this.

flail

Deflection. This feels like a very scum thing to say.

And at long last the scum try to push a dat 1 wagon on me.
Of those that voted me the only one who is suspect is aegor who moded a game I played in and should know how I play.
Most of you are working under the assuptiom bulba is scum and I'm starting a cw to help him. That is scum logic not town logic.
Just look how quickly my wagon formed.

Really bad OMGUS reaction here. Have you got anything on any one on your waggon that would actually facilitate a scum read on any of them - apart from OMGUS.
Because right now some solid reads or any line of reasoning from you might actually be going a long way. Don't hold up "playstyle" as a defense, that doesn't cut it any more. You may be the laziest town ever, but down the line you may as well be scum, and right now you are definitely a huge deal more scummy than the majority of players in this game, which currently makes you very deadline lynchable, at least, in my book.

Fos Vezo

(just to add some emphasis)

-Shadow-

First time posting about me. Seems like scum pushing from the sidelines, because they know I will flip town.

For a start, explain these:

Because I'm reading both thor and nacho as scum.

[Citation needed]

What is it you find scummy?

Emogirl because of what bazinga pointed out, the rolefishing she did after that and how she cracked under pressure

[Citation needed]

. I see all those come from a scum perspective.

She "cracked"? Where was that?

I'm now reading bulba as town. I couldn't read him before because of his back and forth with people and his long unsubstantial posts. My read has changed based on his tone and some other things I don't remember

[Citation needed]

.

You could, you know, iso him, or something. Because remembering could be rather useful at this point.

I am also reading wisdom as misguided town. I couldn't read him before because I could not see the intent behind his posts. Now I'm thinking his posts come from a town perspective

[Citation needed]

.

Where exactly did you change your mind? What did Wisdom do to change it?

-Shadow-

He asks some questions the he never really follow through.

I'm really not sure what to say anymore.

I think bulba is town

and I know I am town, but there isn't anyone pushing that much for either of our lynches.

If it comes to a deadline lynch

I will lynch bulba though

.

Yeah, contradict more.
Who is scum? Who do you really want to see lynched?

Random mudslinging.

Okay, let's finally have a look at Casso.

Interesting enough, they present us as their top scum read, even make some soft pushes into our direction, although, interstingly enough, anything that could resemble a case on us is only brought up after they have already established us as their top scum read. With Wisdom and Aegor on board they'd certainly have been able to make it a competing waggon easily. Still they never even seem to consider voting us and instead prefer to rather present some paranoid meta case to justify why they are rather keeping their vote on Bulba.
One interesting thing is that they seem to set it up in a way that conveniently allows them to call Aegor "scummy but probably not scum due to association". This should be looked into later, when one of those two flips scum, because it looks a lot like a subtle chainsaw defense acommpanied by carefully dosed distancing, but makes very little sense from a mostly ignorant day 1 town point of view.

Vote Casso

We're probably not going to come to agree on many things this day any more, Vezo, but here's your chance to make it happen. Join up with us, this waggon still has a chance.

Asks for me to wagon casso. This is incredibly weird.

The only person I believe to be 100% town by my measure besides myself is emogirl, Wisdom is close though, too. I guess bazinga too. I forgot Bert was in this game.

So like hmmm.

His top three town reads were, emogirl , wisdom and bazinga. He jails instead of both emo and wisdom. Even with bazinga's claim this is still a very strange action.

Wisdom, why are you so adamant on lynching Vez or Bulb?! I seem to remember that you were suspicious of Casso, too.

Bulba, how about you stop walling it up and make some concise summary of your thoughts about the game and who is scum at this point?

-Shadow-

Wants to vote wisdom from me or bulba wagon to casso wagon. Wisdom was also stating that he considers HIR to be scum, but knows HIR brings no mention of it.

In this post, vezzy actually makes a proper case against a player. Here, vezzy has done no such thing.

Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

Aegor - leaning town. His actions don't look scum motivated.

Headlong Into Ruin - Scummy scum. Will post more on him in a bit.

StrangerCoug - I had null read D1, but given his push on Bulba I read him as leaning town right now.

Bicephalous Bob - Way too lurky for my tastes, but I played with him as scum and he wasn't as lurky and had bad rolefishing attempts. I have him as null town right now.

Casso the King of Seals - I'd expect more from thor and nacho. Right now I have them as probably scum.

Desperado - Leaning town. His thought process makes sense and I didn't see him use bad logic.

bazinga - Town. Probably my strongest town read. He actually tries to understand stuff about this game. Wisdom was on the same read place as bazinga, but he died.

emogirl123 - nullscum. Attitude seems to come from scum, but it isn't as obvious as in Casso's case.

yessiree - null. I can't read this guy.

Bitmap - heavy lurker. I doubt he is scum though.

vezokpiraka - The most towniest town that ever lived.

This is an actual proper sweet-vezzy readslist. He not only has opinions on every player, but a somewhat-lengthy explanation as to why on each. Aside from his "readslist" he did just now, vezzy has not yet throughout the entire game given one. You can check; it simply isn't there.

Other random highlights from that game, Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

Speaking of bulba. Where is he?

Inquisitive nature. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I'm saying casso is scum since post 1 I think. My other scum reads are you and emogirl.
Do you want me to make a sig that says that every time?

"@Wisdom: I don't know why he is doing that.
I see only two possibilities
1)They entered full conf bias mode and everything they read from me most come from scum and they need something to sound like it for them.
or
2)They are very bad scum who hope nobody would read the rest of the quote.

I doubt they are that bad at playing scum so the only explanation I can think of is 1). They are one of my scumread, but I read people as scum based on mostly gut or by little things.

Strong answers that further the game, answering, and giving an insight into vezzy's mind as a town player: gut/little things. Here, vezzy has not been showing much of those gut/little things at all. He has been rather logical, I would say; his posting is primarily cold and dispassionate, trends I would associate with his scumgame. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I'm really not sure what to say anymore.
I think bulba is town and I know I am town, but there isn't anyone pushing that much for either of our lynches.

If it comes to a deadline lynch I will lynch bulba though.

A high level of uncertainty very visible in his posting. Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

I am reading aegor as town.
I now he seems scummy, but deep inside I know he's probably town.

This level of insight, this going against the expected, and inability to properly explain himself are again all traits of a town-vezzy associated with his style of playing by gut, by feeling, and sensing things more than analyzing things. And yet, if you search vezzy's posting this game, you will have trouble seeing this at all. Reinforced by this as well: Subject: Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

We're lynching vezo or Bulba, no1 else.

Because then we might wagon your scumbuddies?

I really can't read wisdom. Every once in a while he makes posts that look like town scumhuting then he drops posts like this.

Where we see that trait shown stronger even still, where he has this lighthearted inquisitive tone, and his honesty about his trouble gathering a read.

I can show you any number of things for Touhou, but perhaps it is best to show you the ending, and how a town-vezzy remains engaged in a game. Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

Ffery: If you can't make up your mind just vote for both of them.

Here, he is not demanding of the vote, but once again politely stating a request for it, offering it as an option. Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

If varsoon and victor are scum-sk or scum-town I'll apologize for leading the town to failure.
On the other hand you can't say that, because you and magua are buddies who voted victor and have their vote stuck.

In Touhou, he showed remorse for the possibility that his leadership may go wrong. Here, he has shown no such thing, pushing on without hesitation. Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

Confirmed varsoon as town and made me rethink my reads.

If you are town ffery please think this through and realize there is no world in which kagami is not scum.

Again in Touhou, he yet again was actively engaged, responding to an inquiry and adding his own insight. Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

3-2-1 won't be that much better. And that's assuming best shots. Actually 4-2 would be best shots, but that's just super lucky.

zmuffin please vote kagami, varsoon please do the same.
It's pretty clear now that the scum team is ffery, kagami, magua.

And again in Touhou, he asks for support, rather than demanding it. He makes his reads clear, stating them respectfully and peacefully. He does not deliver them bluntly; he says them with emotion.
The closest thing Touhou has to this game is this: Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

People don't want to win this.

Where vezzy expresses distaste in the town's lack of willingness to win the game. However, even there, it is vastly different. In that game, it was a singular post, said respectfully and with remorse. It is said politely. Now let us look at one of the many posts in this game that contrasts this.

Nobody has anything else to say goddammit.
Lynch aj scun and end this. Stop draging.

[Aunt Jemina]

This old lady's vision is not great, as I once again hit the wrong button. (At least I did so after having fixed the spoiler tag that I was tweaking.)

[Aunt Jemina]

When it comes to remaining games, I will point out vezzy's endgame here. He went through the time and effort to try and analyze who the scum was, even if ultimately making the wrong call. If you pull up his iso, you see the same inquisitive him throughout the whole game, in spite of that game having suffered rather a bit from apathy. Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Who do you think is scum?

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

@Cabd: We still want your claim. Flavor and everything.

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Can you claim flavor too?

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Can we continue the massclaim and just lynch dan?

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

vezo, why did you not like it when she claimed role blocker?

How many times have you seen scum claim jailkeeper as scum roleblocker?

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

vote farside

Did you just claim roleblocker?

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Also who claims one shot BP?
I've only seen people claim full BP as town even if they were 1-shot.

Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Also why did you want me to full claim?

And these are just the questions. There's more which shows the contrast in that game. However, one large point I feel the need to point out:
Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

The day was getting boring and there wasn't any meaningful discussion going on. Something should have happened and I didn't think a cabd wagon could form.

This is the closest vezzy has gotten in any game to his attitude in this game, but even here, you can tell it is different. There, he voted Cephrir in order to keep the game moving, in order to generate information, even if he thought it was sub-optimal. Here, he is voting me and yet has given no indication whatsoever that it is to move the game forward. There, he also said this: Subject: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia (Game Over)

Does anyone want to say anything more or we can go ahead and lynch farside?

Which is similar as well. But it id distinctly different, in that vezzy is again asking there, but here he is demanding we go forth with my lynching, insisting nothing good will come of waiting.

These same traits exist in Mean Girls Mafia as well. If I quote things from there, I will be doing nothing but reinforcing what I have already stated previously. Needless to say, it shows the same trends: inquisitive and polite, not demanding. It appears in Left 4 Dead as well. Vezzy put severe effort into the game and was consistently commenting on issues up to the moment of his demise. It additionally displays in Micro 312 with all of vezzy's posting. He had reads. He had a plan. He was inquisitive. He was productive.

This game's vezzy has not been.

Which I am about to show in the next part, that being his play this game. (I have covered his meta about as thoroughly as can be done given his current recently-completed games.) I have shown you rather clearly why his posting is not the sweet-vezzy, but I need to additionally demonstrate why it is in fact the sour-vezzy.

[Aunt Jemina]

vote umbrage

I hope we can all agree this is the superior wagon.

It begins with vezzy's very first post, in which vezzy casts a vote which is clearly not RVS, and yet lacks the progression of a content-filled vote. His vote did nothing to move the game forward, and yet was not a random vote. In every sweet vezzy game I have read, his vote has fallen into one of two categories: content, and random. This vote seems stuck in-between.

This is proven by his next post, the closest he comes to a proper inquiry the entire game:

@umbrage: Care to comment why you self voted?

And yet, even this response is alarming, in that vezzy is choosing to focus on that single thing, and yet the best he shows for his efforts is this question. The sweet vezok I've seen makes sure that if focusing on a limited subject (something vezzy is not prone to doing as a sweet player), he explores this subject in great depth. Even in the RVS, the depth behind his posting is typically much greater than a singular halfhearted inquiry.

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That was me. I didn't think displaced was trying to smear anyone. My impression was that displaced merely wanted to make a post. It isn't like mozamis was the only player that displaced could have chastised for making a gut decision based on a posting style. For example, Aunt Jemina made such a decision on PeregrineV. Anyway, I would have characterized displaced's post as a nothing post - did not reveal any suspicions, did not press anyone, and did not particularly contribute to the discussion. There are several players that fall into that category currently. It is the weekend, though. Personally, I'm going to give them a couple more days and then revisit who is contributing and who is coasting.

This to me seems like scum posting 101. A lot of phrases that say nothing at all. You name people in your posts just for the sake of examples.

Anyone who isn't voting ruffing or zzzx should reread these two guys.

unvote
vote the ruffing

You would think that by voting Fliggy, vezzy would be disqualified from being a scumbuddy. However, pay attention: vezzy leaves an opening. He says "voting rufflig

or zzzx

". This is a vital detail, as it means that at any given moment, were the need to arise, vezzy could instantly switch off of Fliggy and onto Zexxy. This is not, as vezzy will later insist in his defense, a town indicator by voting the scum encryptor so early, but rather, the opposite, a scum indicator in that voting a scum encryptor so early is excellent for distancing purposes given that daytalk allows for the move to be severed at any time if deemed too dangerous.

This to me seems like scum posting 101. A lot of phrases that say nothing at all. You name people in your posts just for the sake of examples.

I think you missed the point of my exchanges with Pidgey. I imagine you'll figure it out if you read through it again. If not, feel free to ask.

Ok. Are you scum?

This and the following conversation is heavily reminiscent of conversations I have witnessed between two scumbuddies creating distance between one another. It does not feel like two players of differing alignments figuring out one another; it reads as two players sharing the same alignment trying to create the illusion they do not. (Reminiscent of Left 4 Dead mafia.)

Ok. Are you scum?

Apparently, you didn't figure it out. That's ok, just pay attention to displaced - he caught all of the problems with Pidgey's posts that I was picking at.

VOTE: Pidgey

This guy avoids the question I asked. And it is an incredibly simple question. Please tell me you can see how scummy he is.

I don't like Yates at all. The fact that he spoilered pidgey's post because he knew it wasn't what he wanted. That part just screams that he is scum misrepping.
If it was without the spoiler I would've thought he is a townie with a conviction.

This one furthers the artificial reactions, in which he not only does not give a true case to be used against fliggy, but also additionally leaves himself an out in the form of Yates. It should be noted that both potential outs (Yates and Zexxy) were heavily suspected, and thus, his suspicions on them were far from original and actually quite opportunistic. At any given moment, he could leap off of fliggy to join, should he deem it convenient.

@Josh: This game is pretty big and I didn't get very engaged in the argument between SG and Yates. I'm thinking one of them is scum, but until I have a solid enough read I prefer to not say anything.

In addition to the refusal to elaborate being in stark contrast to vezzy's policies as a sweet player, there is a minor contradiction in that he was not liking Yates earlier and yet here is seemingly more neutral on him. But the truly critical part is his stance on Squirly, where he (by virtue of the Yates suspicion) is via proxy defending her.

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

Either bussing or very tired bulba.

This post demonstrates that vezzy is unafraid to bus his scumbuddy if he thinks it convenient (why would he think someone is bussing otherwise?), an important detail to remember. Furthermore, by attacking BulbyFenny as also being scum, vezzy sets it up such that Fliggy is a less-appealing target. So in spite of voting fliggy, his actions drive people away from there.

Why am I missing the whole Rufflig=scum thing? Did he slip and post his role PM or something?

All his posts scream of scum.
Cautious scum and way too thoughtful. There is literally no town emotion coming from him.

Guess which player also fits this profile?

Vezzy is ironically enough describing, succinctly, precisely why I feel him sour: his posting is too thoughtful, and entirely devoid of emotion. Some emotions may exist in perhaps the form of frustration that he has not gotten his way in spite of commanding it multiple times, but otherwise his posting has lacked any sign of the emotions that run so vibrantly through a sweet-vezzy.

It also did not in fact accurately fit fliggy, in my opinion, thus, by posting this, it is possible that instead of helping the lynch, this was a direct effort to hurt it.

Also that doesn't feel like town cabd even though I have limited experience with her.

vote unfriendly neighbours

Here, vezzy unvotes fliggy. Additionally,

Also why are we not lynching ms?
His slot claimed a daykill and now he backtracks on it? Is that even a thing?

He posts this in what can best be described as both discrediting and setting up mislynches down the road, while drawing attention away from fliggy.

While vezzy did in fact ultimately vote fliggy, let us look at the circumstances behind that final vote:

Yates 5 - Squirrel Girl,Kid A, Aunt Jemina,Nero Cain,beastcharizard,
The Ruffling 4 - pidgey,BulbaFenix,Chandra Nalaar,ThAdmiral
UnfriendlyNeighbors 3 - vezokpiraka,Josh_B,PeregrineV,
Josh_B 3 - UnfriendlyNeighbors,ZZZX,Viomi,
UniversalSlutBus 1 - mozamis,
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
KidA 1 - Malakittens
Aunt J 1 - displaced
Viomi 1 - The Rufflig
beastcharizard 1 - Umbrage

Vezzy was likely playing it by ear. Deadline was near. Fliggy was one of multiple names that could have been lynched. Yates, however, was being replaced. Experience has shown players that attempting to lynch a slot not in the game is near-impossible, and likely to draw suspicion to oneself. Vezzy was going V/LA until after the deadline. He saw the vote from mozzy on fliggy. Given those circumstances, as a scumbuddy, it is quite likely that he was more than happy to vote for Fliggy, especially given that the more fliggy talked, the more people wished to lynch him. By getting into the crowd, after the wagon was near-assuredly happening but before it would be severely noticed as having been bandwagoning, vezzy got on. It is also a great way to draw the positive attention of town players, such as Sonny, pidgey, Thaddy, and BulbyFenny.

And all of this simply from his day one posting.

[Aunt Jemina]

This old lady is truly getting exhausted given that's the third time I have clicked the wrong button. Many apologies for the premature submit. Consider it 'part one'. I am beginning to write more now.

[Aunt Jemina]

Your entire case on me can be simplified to he looks like town vez, but he is in fact scum, because of incredibly small differences in choices of words.

On the contrary, my case against you is showing how very much you are NOT like the town-vezzy I know, and in fact even in the times you come

closest

to being your sweet self are

still

notably different.

As I said.

The case is only beginning to warm up.

I have not finished it yet. Not even close.

[Aunt Jemina]

THadmiral was killed night 1 by marvel scum.

Incorrect. Thaddy was killed N1 by DC scum. The Marvel kill flavor is obviously 'destroyed', and Thaddy 'disappeared'.

[Aunt Jemina]

@AJ: what the fuck? You say you are focusing on me in the last post and you didn't even mention mr before. What's up with that.

This is a post I forgot to add in before. Vezzy here is being rather vulgar and blunt.

Ive seen people before talk about scum team A and scum team B from day 1 just because there were many players in the game and mod meta.

This is also important given that the game turned out to be multiball. Vezzy defended the notion on day one, before there was any proof of it being so. Though this is not a strong indicator of alignment as others did so on D1 as well, it is a minor indication of it, as vezzy's support for it is still something that town players are less inclined to do.

V/la till sunday

Though I think the possibility low, it is worth noting that with no confirmed Marvel kill N1, it is possible they did not choose someone to kill. With fliggy dead and vezzy V/LA throughout the night, it is fully possible that they had no scumbuddy around to submit the kill, if Squirly was also not around.

Josh_B 1 - Umbrage
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
Chandra Nalaar 2 - Viomi,The Rufflig

These people need to be looked at. Yates was the counter-wagon to ruffling, but these people were voting completely irrelevant people. Viomi to me comes out as the worst.
Umbrage second.

vote viomi

It should be noted that this is the most in-depth analysis from vezzy the whole game (note that in town games, vezzy offers so much more than this), and it comes from a time period where Marvel scum have every incentive to do so. Down two members, with the opposite scumteam still alive, they would be motivated to legitimately scumhunt. However, note his careful wording, filled with that passive voice. "Need to be looked at". "Comes out as the worst". Vezzy at this point in the game is aiming to make analysis that is good enough to not get lynched and to eliminate one or two DC scum, yet not strong enough that he gets nightkilled because of it.

vote viomi

This scum needs death. Metadefense doesn't cut it.

Again note the passive voice. Vezzy is keeping a distant tone. He is not saying "I think viomi is scum"; he is saying "viomi is scum". This distant tone is what allows him to blend in and avoid consequences as easily as he does: it allows him to better avoid the consequences of being wrong, while making him a less-appealing target as he appears to be distant rather than invested in his arguments. (This, not going into vezzy's meta where he explicitly declares that as town, he works off of gut. His play here has shown no indication whatsoever as to him working off of gut, and instead is showing cold logic as his driving force, something uncharacteristic of his town game.)

@Umbrage: I was the first one to vote ruffling day 1.

This defense against being scum with fliggy is precisely the reason why scum distance in the first place. Vezzy was in fact the first person to vote for fliggy. However, he took that vote off later. Though it eventually found its way back on before the end of the day, it was done so during a time when hopping on would be good for town credit, and yet not at a time where doing so would condemn fliggy to death. He did not push for fliggy's lynch, and ultimately his vote was barely a factor in the fliggy lynch at all and easily could have been someone else.

@aunt jeanina: you claim to have played a lot games with me and then say this isn't my town game.
Sorry if I think all your reads are awful.

Note that this is the earlier attitude vezzy took towards my attacks. Aside from it being another case of vezzy not moving the game forward, note the contrast here to what he is doing now. Back then, when he needed to avoid being seen as scum, he put time and effort into responding against cases directed at him. He was firmly dismissive the whole time. Now, when he needs no such efforts, he has not truly bothered with them, particularly as he knows that they are in fact valid.

Bullshit. You are just mudslinging and fearmongering. You have provided no real reasoning for why my town meta isn't present in this game. You didn't even post games you've read with me as town.

This is a particularly important quote. Of all the players in the game, who here is the one that has given the least for why they are doing what they are? It's vezzy. Kitty put thought into her reads. Beasty has putten thought into his reads previously, and has explained where he is coming from. (He is lynching me more out of apathy than belief I am sour.) Zexxy has given many reasons. (Albeit reasons I have demonstrated are in error, yet existing all the same.) Vetty has put effort into obtaining reads, albeit unsuccessfully so. Grinny is in the process of obtaining reads. Even Rach, who is someone that has struggled to stay in the game, has explained her stances more than vezzy is now.

Vezzy has simply been saying I am scum, without presenting any reason as to

why

I am scum. (Aside from a short quip recently about Thaddy which we know to be utterly false, and said reasoning was only provided well

after

I had called him out on his lack of reasoning thusfar.)

fluff.

Here, vezzy clearly states fluff being posted as being something he thinks of as being suspicious in the manner it was posted. Yet as shown today, he himself is guilty of doing precisely this.

You defend him and set him up for a mislynch in case you die. Or you could be scum together, but I somehow doubt that.

You moved beastcharizard in your sure scum slot because you realized he is an easy lynch and you will have reason for voting him when the time comes. Your progression onto this read is not natural. It is not how a townie thinks.

And of course the irresistible vezok scum read. I don't think I've played a game where scum didn't push for me hoping for an easy lynch.

I would like to point out that vezzy here is clearly hunting for a specific faction: DC. If he were hunting for Marvel, then the thought of myself being Marvel would have crossed his mind; as Marvel, I would be aiming to live, and thus, would have no intention of setting up a mislynch in case I were to die and certainly wouldn't have scumbuddies. This is because vezzy himself is quite likely Marvel, given his Squirly interactions and the manner in which he pushed fliggy.

Furthermore, he calls out me for going after an "easy lynch" and calls my progression unnatural. Who here is voting for the easy lynch? Vezzy is. Where is his progression of read on me? There is none after he concludes I am scum here randomly. Additionally, he calls me out for scumreading him, and yet ignores the very true fact that town players can and will be suspicious of him. You need look no further than Nally, who vezzy defended himself against.

Oh, and again speaking of read progression...

Oh cool so Umbrage is scum, glad we figured that one out

You.. seem to think in a different way than most of the players here lol

I agree with chandra. It's rare when Umbrage is so openly scum.

This, along with previous posting, clearly states that Ragey is sour. You could say that he was 'clinging onto' a Ragey scumread.

Umbrage stop spewing shit in the thread and come to your town senses.
Scum are clinging to you hoping to get out of being killed.

This, his very next post, is insisting that Ragey is sweet, and that scum are the ones clinging to him.

What caused such a complete reversal between the posting? For someone allegedly thinking that my reads did not progress naturally...this is a pretty unnatural read progression. He entirely reverses his stance with no visible reason for the change at all. This is a

strong

indicator that his reads are not reached in a natural manner.

From there-on, vezzy's content is nearly entirely like this:

vote aj

Today is the day we lynch last marvel scum.

This is because his focus is no longer on lynching scum, but rather, on surviving and getting as many mislynches as he can. With two dead DC, there would be only one or two remaining to him, and he would need their kills in order to stand a chance at winning. Thus, he gives no reasoning and continues to push.

unvote
vote displaced

unvote
vote mozamis

I'm cool with this too.

We are finally lynching this scum?

vote AJ

It should additionally be noted that vezzy is agreeing with others fairly mindlessly at this point in the game. Agreeing with Grinny. Having the same tone as Nero. Observe:

oh hehe, you are funny as scum, AJ but more after dinner and throughout the week.

vote:AJ

FIXED!

Now compare this to vezzy and note the similarities. (This may in large part be in fact thanks to their similar situations, and thus, the need to play similarly.)

Cabd, Chandra, and Mala are conf. town. Period.

Perhaps a color update to this, like Rach is not Red (DC) scum, etc.

I agree with pere here.

Also are we lynching anyone?

yes, we are lynching you.

Go ahead. The game is already boring. It's being dictated by 4-5 players who call each other confirmed town and decide what to do.

This is a fairly blatant appeal to emotion, and one not indicative of a town mindset, especially given games such as Organic Chemistry which contrast it. Instead of using the chance to scumhunt, he is avoiding it. He knows very well and good that the control of the game does not lie in his hands. His hope for living rests on him avoiding the spotlight of said confirmed town.

And after attention switched focus onto myself, it is demonstrated in vezzy's singular focus on myself. Every post of his has been directed towards that one objective, without thought of other things. No attempt to analyze if there would be another DC scum. No effort to figure out who is scum when I flip town. All he is doing is fluff-posting.

Tell me, ignoring any other factors of the game, who are you most inclined to lynch?
The player giving the most effort to the game,
The players being apathetic and not giving effort to the game,
The players doing analysis but not much shown in the game,
Or the player who is doing nothing but mindlessly insisting that someone is scum? Whose contributions involve various different insults and is filled with noncontent?

Vezzy is sour. And the interactions help prove it as well.

[Aunt Jemina]

Mod: Please delete that post

.
It would appear I yet again fudged up my quote tags. Let us try that again.

@AJ: what the fuck? You say you are focusing on me in the last post and you didn't even mention mr before. What's up with that.

This is a post I forgot to add in before. Vezzy here is being rather vulgar and blunt.

Ive seen people before talk about scum team A and scum team B from day 1 just because there were many players in the game and mod meta.

This is also important given that the game turned out to be multiball. Vezzy defended the notion on day one, before there was any proof of it being so. Though this is not a strong indicator of alignment as others did so on D1 as well, it is a minor indication of it, as vezzy's support for it is still something that town players are less inclined to do.

V/la till sunday

Though I think the possibility low, it is worth noting that with no confirmed Marvel kill N1, it is possible they did not choose someone to kill. With fliggy dead and vezzy V/LA throughout the night, it is fully possible that they had no scumbuddy around to submit the kill, if Squirly was also not around.

Josh_B 1 - Umbrage
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
Chandra Nalaar 2 - Viomi,The Rufflig

These people need to be looked at. Yates was the counter-wagon to ruffling, but these people were voting completely irrelevant people. Viomi to me comes out as the worst.
Umbrage second.

vote viomi

It should be noted that this is the most in-depth analysis from vezzy the whole game (note that in town games, vezzy offers so much more than this), and it comes from a time period where Marvel scum have every incentive to do so. Down two members, with the opposite scumteam still alive, they would be motivated to legitimately scumhunt. However, note his careful wording, filled with that passive voice. "Need to be looked at". "Comes out as the worst". Vezzy at this point in the game is aiming to make analysis that is good enough to not get lynched and to eliminate one or two DC scum, yet not strong enough that he gets nightkilled because of it.

vote viomi

This scum needs death. Metadefense doesn't cut it.

Again note the passive voice. Vezzy is keeping a distant tone. He is not saying "I think viomi is scum"; he is saying "viomi is scum". This distant tone is what allows him to blend in and avoid consequences as easily as he does: it allows him to better avoid the consequences of being wrong, while making him a less-appealing target as he appears to be distant rather than invested in his arguments. (This, not going into vezzy's meta where he explicitly declares that as town, he works off of gut. His play here has shown no indication whatsoever as to him working off of gut, and instead is showing cold logic as his driving force, something uncharacteristic of his town game.)

@Umbrage: I was the first one to vote ruffling day 1.

This defense against being scum with fliggy is precisely the reason why scum distance in the first place. Vezzy was in fact the first person to vote for fliggy. However, he took that vote off later. Though it eventually found its way back on before the end of the day, it was done so during a time when hopping on would be good for town credit, and yet not at a time where doing so would condemn fliggy to death. He did not push for fliggy's lynch, and ultimately his vote was barely a factor in the fliggy lynch at all and easily could have been someone else.

@aunt jeanina: you claim to have played a lot games with me and then say this isn't my town game.
Sorry if I think all your reads are awful.

Note that this is the earlier attitude vezzy took towards my attacks. Aside from it being another case of vezzy not moving the game forward, note the contrast here to what he is doing now. Back then, when he needed to avoid being seen as scum, he put time and effort into responding against cases directed at him. He was firmly dismissive the whole time. Now, when he needs no such efforts, he has not truly bothered with them, particularly as he knows that they are in fact valid.

Bullshit. You are just mudslinging and fearmongering. You have provided no real reasoning for why my town meta isn't present in this game. You didn't even post games you've read with me as town.

This is a particularly important quote. Of all the players in the game, who here is the one that has given the least for why they are doing what they are? It's vezzy. Kitty put thought into her reads. Beasty has putten thought into his reads previously, and has explained where he is coming from. (He is lynching me more out of apathy than belief I am sour.) Zexxy has given many reasons. (Albeit reasons I have demonstrated are in error, yet existing all the same.) Vetty has put effort into obtaining reads, albeit unsuccessfully so. Grinny is in the process of obtaining reads. Even Rach, who is someone that has struggled to stay in the game, has explained her stances more than vezzy is now.

Vezzy has simply been saying I am scum, without presenting any reason as to

why

I am scum. (Aside from a short quip recently about Thaddy which we know to be utterly false, and said reasoning was only provided well

after

I had called him out on his lack of reasoning thusfar.)

fluff.

Here, vezzy clearly states fluff being posted as being something he thinks of as being suspicious in the manner it was posted. Yet as shown today, he himself is guilty of doing precisely this.

You defend him and set him up for a mislynch in case you die. Or you could be scum together, but I somehow doubt that.

You moved beastcharizard in your sure scum slot because you realized he is an easy lynch and you will have reason for voting him when the time comes. Your progression onto this read is not natural. It is not how a townie thinks.

And of course the irresistible vezok scum read. I don't think I've played a game where scum didn't push for me hoping for an easy lynch.

I would like to point out that vezzy here is clearly hunting for a specific faction: DC. If he were hunting for Marvel, then the thought of myself being Marvel would have crossed his mind; as Marvel, I would be aiming to live, and thus, would have no intention of setting up a mislynch in case I were to die and certainly wouldn't have scumbuddies. This is because vezzy himself is quite likely Marvel, given his Squirly interactions and the manner in which he pushed fliggy.

Furthermore, he calls out me for going after an "easy lynch" and calls my progression unnatural. Who here is voting for the easy lynch? Vezzy is. Where is his progression of read on me? There is none after he concludes I am scum here randomly. Additionally, he calls me out for scumreading him, and yet ignores the very true fact that town players can and will be suspicious of him. You need look no further than Nally, who vezzy defended himself against.

Oh, and again speaking of read progression...

Oh cool so Umbrage is scum, glad we figured that one out

You.. seem to think in a different way than most of the players here lol

I agree with chandra. It's rare when Umbrage is so openly scum.

This, along with previous posting, clearly states that Ragey is sour. You could say that he was 'clinging onto' a Ragey scumread.

Umbrage stop spewing shit in the thread and come to your town senses.
Scum are clinging to you hoping to get out of being killed.

This, his very next post, is insisting that Ragey is sweet, and that scum are the ones clinging to him.

What caused such a complete reversal between the posting? For someone allegedly thinking that my reads did not progress naturally...this is a pretty unnatural read progression. He entirely reverses his stance with no visible reason for the change at all. This is a

strong

indicator that his reads are not reached in a natural manner.

From there-on, vezzy's content is nearly entirely like this:

vote aj

Today is the day we lynch last marvel scum.

This is because his focus is no longer on lynching scum, but rather, on surviving and getting as many mislynches as he can. With two dead DC, there would be only one or two remaining to him, and he would need their kills in order to stand a chance at winning. Thus, he gives no reasoning and continues to push.

unvote
vote displaced

unvote
vote mozamis

I'm cool with this too.

We are finally lynching this scum?

vote AJ

It should additionally be noted that vezzy is agreeing with others fairly mindlessly at this point in the game. Agreeing with Grinny. Having the same tone as Nero. Observe:

oh hehe, you are funny as scum, AJ but more after dinner and throughout the week.

vote:AJ

FIXED!

Now compare this to vezzy and note the similarities. (This may in large part be in fact thanks to their similar situations, and thus, the need to play similarly.)

Cabd, Chandra, and Mala are conf. town. Period.

Perhaps a color update to this, like Rach is not Red (DC) scum, etc.

I agree with pere here.

Also are we lynching anyone?

yes, we are lynching you.

Go ahead. The game is already boring. It's being dictated by 4-5 players who call each other confirmed town and decide what to do.

This is a fairly blatant appeal to emotion, and one not indicative of a town mindset, especially given games such as Organic Chemistry which contrast it. Instead of using the chance to scumhunt, he is avoiding it. He knows very well and good that the control of the game does not lie in his hands. His hope for living rests on him avoiding the spotlight of said confirmed town.

And after attention switched focus onto myself, it is demonstrated in vezzy's singular focus on myself. Every post of his has been directed towards that one objective, without thought of other things. No attempt to analyze if there would be another DC scum. No effort to figure out who is scum when I flip town. All he is doing is fluff-posting.

Tell me, ignoring any other factors of the game, who are you most inclined to lynch?
The player giving the most effort to the game,
The players being apathetic and not giving effort to the game,
The players doing analysis but not much shown in the game,
Or the player who is doing nothing but mindlessly insisting that someone is scum? Whose contributions involve various different insults and is filled with noncontent?

Vezzy is sour. And the interactions help prove it as well.

[Aunt Jemina]

As a start:
Iso Squirly.
If you can find so much as a single reference to vezzy in Squirly's iso, then your searching skills are greater than mine.
In the entirety of Squirly's posting, Squirly never once mentions vezzy.

This is particularly important, as Squirly is the type of player that would know that any mention of a scumbuddy (even placing them in null) could be potentially condemning for one of them if the other flips. The best way to avoid that is to mention a scumbuddy only if absolutely necessary, and to otherwise not do so. A lack of interaction is of course still condemning, but it is much harder to pick up, and harder for players to accept as reasoning unless it has been consistent throughout the entire game. Daytalk was likely a contributing factor to this stance as well, in that Squirly could use the scum QT to talk to her scumbuddy, and vice-versa.

Rufflig looks town.

I feel like this begs explanation. I don't think he's done anything indicative of alignment. What am I overlooking?

Imagine that this was stronger worded and instead of saying fliggy was null, she said fliggy was scum. Perhaps even voting him. Who is this similar to? Vezzy. If you take a look at fliggy's posting, do tell me you think that he would be anything other than unpopular amongst his scumbuddies.

I actually agree with Pidgey. I think his two comments look quite workable as the same line of thought and don't see the change that Ruffling is talking about. What are your thoughts on this?

Again, note that this easily could have been used to say that fliggy was sour, if there was need for it. Squirly obviously was not going to jump at a bus, but clearly had the option on standby in case it was deemed necessary.

If me ignoring your case on Ruffling makes me his buddy - then everyone is Yates' scumbuddy by the same logic.

This helps to show that Squirly does in fact think that ignoring a player altogether could be alignment-indicative, and shows the need to prove she is not.

I do not claim to be objective towards Chandra. Given how much Chandra and I have yelled at each other, I do not expect anyone to take me at my word on matters pertaining to her.

Why do you feel justified voting her then? And why dress it in a case first?

This shows Squirly's doubt on fliggy as well.

Josh_B
PeregrineV,
UniversalSlutBus,
Malakittens

The Rufflig

Yates
ArcAngel9

Pretty sure that's the list of people who ought to have a new vote within the next 8 hours or so. I think it wouldn't hurt us to have a chance to talk over the roleclaim either...though we may already be past the point of that happening.

This seems like it is very obviously Squirly being open to the idea of bussing fliggy.

Now...who are the people I'm talking to if they are not people posting in the thread and in the Day Phase?
Right - scum in my scum chat.

@Ruffling - thanks for the help. Oh...wait...

This quote in particular holds great significance. Aside from showing an increasingly-low tolerance for fliggy (and thus, an increasingly-more-likely willingness to bus, thus demonstrating that fliggy's living partner very well may have done so), it also is indicating perfectly the actual (lack of) interaction between Squirly and vezzy: talking to people not posting in the thread, scum in her daychat.

So while Squirly did in fact defend fliggy, there is quite clearly many opportunities in Squirly's posting which, should it have been deemed advantageous to Squirly, Squirly could have bussed.

[Aunt Jemina]

This guy avoids the question I asked. And it is an incredibly simple question. Please tell me you can see how scummy he is.

You're asking

me

if I think you should lynch me? Gee, you ask tough questions. Is this test open book?

Again, note the tone of this banter with vezzy. Fliggy's treatment of other players suspicious of him was rather serious. Here, it comes across as almost playful, as if it is a faked interaction done for the town credit, distancing that hurts neither player and helps both. (Note that vezzy's reasoning did not garner much traction.)

As an example: read fliggy's pidgey push. Read his Aronis interactions. Both times, he put a lengthy amount of effort into explaining his read on those two and defending himself. Example:

Ruffig, why are you voting for me?

I have a pet theory. The role/character that most players dislike the most are scum ones. So hints of not being content with one's role/character makes me suspicious. You claimed to have an awesome character. So when Kid A complained about his character, he hit my list. However, so did you when you replied to him. If you had an awesome character, your answer to Kid A should have been "No, I love my character." A "Probably not." indicates that you don't actually love your character. Second, you asked who Kid A's character was. That is minor role fishing. Third, you hadn't produced any content (still haven't) to make me feel better about these minor transgressions. Therefore, I felt you were more worthy of my vote than the first person on the list of players.

So what about Kid A? Why am I not pressing him?
Another excellent question! He stated that his character name is 'Wolverine'. Such unforced disclosures early on almost always come from town. I've not run across a case where a scum did this, but it is possible so almost always. Anyway, that disclosure led to me not being interested in Kid A, today.

Compare this to his vezzy response, and you will realize they are nothing alike. However, in both pidgey's case and Aronis's case, it was with a scumread. For a read in which fliggy did not vote (albeit admittedly having a scumread at least by the end; the beginning does not make this clear and in fact implies the opposite), refer to the walls (and I do mean walls) that fliggy posted there in his interaction.

Spoiler: All his Nally posts

Oh, Rufflig was supposed to be on my scumread list as well, but then I forgot.

I finally figured out what my problem with you is. You aren't actually trying to get your scum reads lynched.

BulbaFeniz : Let's give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just trying to get a reaction to get a better read on this slot.
Umbrage: Your initial vote was unsupported by any reasons. True, you did take a couple pot shots at Umbrage later on, but you never pushed this scum read or mention what it was about Umbrage that you found scummy.
jklash: I don't recall you even making a snarky comment towards him or
Kid A: - how are you going to get people to vote for them without any reasons?
The Rufflig: No reasons here, either.

I think it is time for you to start filling in some of the blanks.

Chandra didn't ask me for a response to anything in her post and I really don't want to start a wall war. So, I've decided not to rip Chandra's post to shreds by posting a wall (I saved it, though). If there's anything in Chandra's post that anyone wants a response to, let me know.

Good lord. Where to begin with this mess? You obviously haven't been paying attention.

We only have a week to make this wagon happen.

Why do you want a bulbafenix wagon? Could I interest you in an Aronis wagon? If one has an awesome character then one doesn't consider trading for the worst Marvel character.

It wasn't when you made the vote and pushed for it.

^this was weird and illogical

Your stated reason for voting BulbaFenix at this point was that the BulbaFenix wagon was larger. This was untrue. So you were either mistaken or you had a different reason for voting BulbaFenix. I pressed you on it. Hey! Guess what? I was right. According to you, you were trying to get a reaction from BulbaFenix to get a better read on the slot.

@pidgey: Interesting. Would you say displaced is attempting to smear mozamis or mozamis' read on me?

At first, I thought this looked like trying to get pidgey to do your dirty work. However, you proceed to argue against pidgey in the following post. Calling it "interesting" first appears to me to be a case of cognitive dissonance and/or light trapping. I tend to think townies don't plan their posts/trajectories ahead of time.

So you didn't plan to make posts to get a reaction from BulbaFenix?

Ok. Are you scum?

Apparently, you didn't figure it out. That's ok, just pay attention to displaced - he caught all of the problems with Pidgey's posts that I was picking at.

VOTE: Pidgey

I just don't think pidgey looks scummy at all until you squint really hard trying to make it so.

I think you'd have to be blind not to see it. Keep in mind, I'm not the only one to pick up on these things. So, there is something there - or possibly something, if you are inclined to argue.

In my opinion, displaced's post is in no way or form throwing dirt on someone. When I pressed pidgey on this, his explanation changed to this:

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That is a dramatic change in pidgey's reason to vote for displaced.

As has been established, even if you thought pidgey meant what everyone apparently thought he did, this was a reach and a half.

Huh? That doesn't make sense. Anyway, I think we are all sick of arguing over what pidgey said. I don't need to win this point. It turns out that I can drop this point from my case and still have a damn solid case against pidgey.

Why did you vote for pidgey if you were talking about displaced?

Because displaced covered these points (and more) in his posts about pidgey. pidgey's initial case against displaced is obviously false. pidgey's revised case is forced.

Neither "obviously false" nor "forced" is an applicable adjective to the posts in question.

You find pidgey latching onto a neutral post and ascribing scummy things to it to be a natural progression? It seems forced to me. Can you come up with a rational reason why displaced would feel the need to throw dirt on mozamis (or anyone else)? With only two posts to work with, do you honestly believe that pidgey could determine scummy intent? Not a chance!

3) Let's set aside pidgey's case for the moment. The game started on a weekend when nothing much had happened yet. Could you look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent? Why would he bother? Having established that displaced's post help no scummy intent pidgey's claims are called into sharp question.

This is not logic, nor does it resemble logic, and I don't like how you're putting words in Nero's mouth either.

So yeah.

There is a reason that prosecutors routinely bring up motive in a murder case to establish guilt. It is self evident that I am asking for displaced's motive. Here is the context: it is early day 1 without much to comment on. What is displaced's motive? If displaced doesn't have a motive (and no one has been able to provide one), then it is likely that displaced's post was not, in fact, the sinister thing that pidgey made it out to be. That would make pidgey's accusation false. False accusations are not to be taken lightly and reflect back upon the accuser. Very clear and very logical train of thought.

I fail to see how I've put words in Nero's mouth.

(I wish to point out that several phrases here, such as "you obviously haven't been paying attention", heavily imply some sort of townread, not scumread. This is apparently wrong given later posting, but I stand by my conclusion all the same that a scumread was not made apparent and thus, fliggy was mostly on the defensive here.)

I'd like to take this moment to note your decision to start out by discrediting me as "not paying attention" and then to do exactly nothing in the rest of the post to demonstrate that I was not paying attention. You're just trying to sound pretty.

If you had been paying attention, I wouldn't have to keep correcting all your errors that you keep posting. As expected, the wall only brought contradictions from you without any arguments or proof.

I never stated that I voted for Bulbafenix because his wagon was larger. You're extrapolating from what I did say to something that isn't true.

I'm sorry. I asked you point blank why you were voting for BulbaFenix and that

was

your reply. Would quoting it directly for you again refresh your memory or are you going to continue to deny your own posts?

Completely different. I didn't do any misleading.

We weren't talking about misleading. However, your stated reason for voting BulbaFenix was because his wagon was larger. It turns out that wasn't the case. So misleading also applies here.

(Hint: It's not solid)

Then come up with an argument to dispute it instead of just contradicting everything I say. That should be an easy bar to reach if the case isn't solid.

First of all, it's only neutral by your say-so.

Second of all, YOU don't seem to have been paying attention, because we literally just cleared up the confusion about "throwing dirt" last page.

First, are you paying attention to anyone? Even pidgey now states that the post was neutral -- that is the damn basis of his case against displaced -- that displaced did

not

take a side with his post.

Second, We did not clear up the mess of pidgey's throwing dirt. We just got tired of arguing about it. Excuse me - not arguing, contradicting. The clearing up is utter nonsense.

You assume that the response to your question is "no, you couldn't look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent".

That would be a very easy statement to disprove, if it was false. Simply state a reasonable scummy motive behind the post. Go ahead. I'm listening.

Let's try to cut these walls down in size. This is the most important part, as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, I have no interest in disproving that statement or of telling you I think that scummy intent exists. What I think about it is entirely irrelevant to the fact that you were putting those words in someone's mouth.

It is not irrelevant. What you think is definitely important. Your case on me depends on my case on pidgey. My case on pidgey depends on pidgey's case on displaced. You've been defending pidgey for some time now. It isn't a stretch to state that you must have swallowed pidgey's case on displaced and therefore think I'm off-base for going after pidgey. If you don't believe in pidgey's case, then you have no case on me.

I would like to hear your thoughts on pidgey's case and why you believe it.

Now instead of Nally, let us again look at his reaction to vezzy:

Anyone who isn't voting ruffing or zzzx should reread these two guys.

@vezok: What don't you like about ZZZX?

He does not bother to put to rest the case against him the way he did for Nally. He does not launch a lengthy inquiry. His response is a single line, weakly added to a post which has a larger focus elsewhere. It is as if he knew he was in no danger from vezzy, and was delivering the line as a formality.

Fliggy was also, overall, rather the OMGUSer. The order may not be perfect, in that some reads scumread him after he did, but others most assuredly scumread him first, with his responses to them being omgus. (Nally in particular.) Vezzy, however, is the only player he did not lengthily address and/or scumread. For instance,

Her belief in pidgey's argument is separate from her questioning of you. She's inquiring into your beliefs surrounding Pidgey's argument. Her beliefs are not on trial.

Wrong!

If chandra believes pidgey made a baseless case she should vote for pidgey or at least press pidgey on the point. She should not vote for me for calling pidgey on his baseless case.

However, that isn't what happened. I saw a case that didn't ring true and I pressed pidgey on it. Chandra saw a case that didn't ring true and she ignored it in favor of the person questioning pidgey. I can come up with a few reasons why chandra might do such a thing if she is scum. Can you come up with any reasons why chandra would do this if she was town?


Intent. Why does no one look for intent anymore?

Here's my problem with those posts, Rufflig. Your analysis shows that you have a clear understanding that this is a misunderstanding between Chandra and Beast, yet you take a complete 180 at the end and use it to frame an attack on Chandra. Essentially you're WKing Beast so that you can attack one of your most vocal attackers.

I do not claim to be objective towards Chandra. Given how much Chandra and I have yelled at each other, I do not expect anyone to take me at my word on matters pertaining to her.

Quick question? What did you think of the interaction between Umbrage and Chandra (if anything)?

Quick question? What did you think of the interaction between Umbrage and Chandra (if anything)?

I haven't seen anything that sticks out to me, and I don't know why you're asking. I don't think Chandra was sheeping Umbrage, if that was what you were getting at.

No, not exactly. To me, it looked like Chandra was buddying up to Umbrage.

This in response to BulbyFenny.

@rufflig - I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. the case on ZZZX is independant from UnfriendlyNeighbors. But the obviousness of ZZZX shot through the roof after the wagon on UFN went up. UFN doesn't really have to be first, we can take out the goon, and be just as close to our wincon as we were before + I still have my eye on you Rufflig.

May I suggest you make the case again, then? You have 5 days and 1 hour to make your case and press it to get your preferred lynch. As of now, no one else is voting for ZZZX. So, you aren't getting your point across clearly.

This in response to Joshy's scumread.

What the fuck is this? There's literally zero mention of us in your ISO if I recall correctly, and you pull this bullshit out?

This was me giving up on the dying Chandra wagon. I thought it was late enough in the day to start consolidating wagons. I chose to vote for the wagon that was least objectionable to me. I wasn't going to vote for myself. I rather think Josh is town so he was out. I am leaning town on Yates so he was also out. That left you as the best of a bad set of wagons to vote for. If you wish, you can also add in self-preservation as a reason.

---

Yeah but I'm normally upfront about it - like "I'd rather vote someone else but I gotta live" etc. It seems like rufflig wanted to sneak on the wagon. Does that sound stupid or do I have a point there?

I dunno. I did ask two other players (in separate posts) to join the wagon. I wouldn't consider that sneaking; I would consider that pushing.

This in response to criticism on his slot.

I would prefer a Rufflig lynch over Yates, primarily since that slot is getting replaced. Pushes against such slots unnerve me, since there's no one there to defend against any allegations. It would be an easy lynch for scum to push at this point.

Hey, cool! I'll go tell the mod I'm replacing out. Want to know something? It won't change a damn thing. No one is making any allegations against either of us and haven't for quite some time. The town and scum are both being lazy. They are both comfortable where the votes are heading. Me? I don't like the leading wagons.

VOTE: Chandra

Though explain to me why sidelining your vote instead of voting Yates to save yourself?

Consider a vig with a shot. I use my vote the same way. I apply it towards those I think may be scum and never towards those I feel are town. Unlike a vig, I need the cooperation of the town, so I may have to settle for a 2nd or third choice of those I feel may be scum, but I never use it against someone I think is town. Like a vig, I am ultimately responsible for my choices.

My

choices. No other player (town or scum) gets to dictate what I do with my vote.

My only choice is to vote Yates or be seen as favoring a no lynch? Fine, I think a no lynch would be better. Better still, let's vote for someone who is actually scummy and has a decent chance of flipping scum. Save myself? Why? So I can be ignored and used as lynch bait tomorrow? No thanks.

This demonstrates that fliggy chose not to save himself. This is likely owing to having some reason not to. The most logical reason I can think of is that fliggy only had one scumbuddy on the Squirly wagon, and the other was on his. This would explain why he did not join the Yates wagon: by not joining, it makes Yates look more suspicious, it allows those on his lynch wagon to look more town, and overall makes the most of his loss.

No one is making any allegations against either of us

Or right, you had a problem with 1 post that I made back around 350??? Your problem with Yates was that he used the wrong name in one post. YaY! Strong cases to refute!!! In the case of Yates, you were town reading him up until that point.

At least you knew we were trying to find scum. You can't say that about all of the contribute nothings in this game.

Seriously! Why isn't this dead yet?

Because I've been contributing to the game and scum hunting. Something you can't say about a lot of the players on the top wagons. I get accused of "sneaking" onto wagons that I push. Ha! Then I get suspicions thrown my way when I drop the same wagon because it doesn't seem so likely to be scum any more. Take a look at the players voting the top two wagons. How many of them have contributed anything to

either

any wagon besides a simple vote and that they are oh all so sorry to have to place on someone due to deadline crunch. Damn few. I bet they won't be looked at on day 2 either. So, hey! Have fun lynching the townies and helping scum to victory!

So, Bulba, do me a favor. Take off the blinders after I've been lynched and give pidgey and Chandra another look see. You'll find out that I was spot on about them.

This making a plea to those pushing him.

I show you these all, and again point out how lacking his vezzy interaction is in contrast. He interacted with nearly every player on the wagon, but vezzy was the only one whose reasons were addressed notably different than the others.

[Aunt Jemina]

However, Vezok was early and hard proponent of Rufflig wagon and lynch. Considering why bus when you can scumhunt the other team, don't see Rufflig-bussing as prime scum-Vezok play.
Why Rufflig when he could have Yates? (1280, 1354)

Early, yes.

Hard, no.

I just demonstrated the lack of strength behind his push.

Look at how hard pidgey pushed fliggy; that is a hard push. Look at BulbyFenny's multiple posts detailing why fliggy was sour; that is a hard push. Look at Nally's posting on fliggy; that is a hard push. If you desire, I can demonstrate this by bringing up the quotes of the aforementioned players, and then show you vezzy's push in contrast to it.

As for why fliggy over Yates, I mentioned why already:
Vezzy hopped onto the fliggy wagon at a time where fliggy was not yet in danger of being lynched. The possibility was there, but were it to happen, it was going to happen because of the deadline, and in that case, vezzy would wish to be on the wagon for the town credit rather than defending a scumbuddy who was beginning to dig their own grave. The Yates wagon was already beginning to die out, particularly given that Yates had asked to be replaced. Let us assume that vezzy is as competent a scum player as I believe him to be. Then by paying attention to the circumstances, he would realize that were fliggy to be lynched, everyone on the Yates wagon would look suspicious, and thus, would wish to stay away from it. As he likely planned on pushing the non-important voters on lesser wagons (see also: his D2 opening 'vca'), he could not himself be there. Thus, it made sense for him to vote there.

Particularly given that he was going V/LA. If the wagon went through, then that would be unfortunate, but no large loss. (If you refer back to the end of D1, there were at least two people online that did not end up voting for fliggy. Had vezzy not been on the wagon, they merely would have replaced him.) If the wagon did not go through, he would get town credit for it.

I personally abhor bussing, but it can have strategic value, particularly if you are making the most out of a very bad situation.

In short, vezzy voted fliggy because voting Yates was unlikely to be productive and very likely to be seen as suspicious. He did not attempt to save fliggy, in part because he would not be around to justify his stances (look at how active Squirly was: Squirly defended fliggy but did so with reasoning. Vezzy being absent means he could not do the same), and in part because fliggy was noticeably digging his own grave. Furthermore, given deadline's proximity, fliggy was a near-assured lynch because fliggy was active, whereas Yates was getting replaced. You will note that vezzy's vote came only after Yates requested replacement. It does not take a genius to realize that a player being replaced is not as likely to be lynched at deadline. Thus, vezzy could make an educated guess as to which wagon would end up going through.

Having fliggy as your scumbuddy is going to be debilitating towards you. The best scum play is to make the most possible of it.

[Aunt Jemina]

It should be noted that I have completed the vezzy case section of my reads. Let me provide a total summary:
Vezzy, when sweet, never relies on one outcome for the game, always considering alternative options. Every post he makes advances the game forward, contributing something additional that was not present before. He ends up having a great amount of control, but does so by suggesting/requesting/asking (not demanding) for support. When in a position of power, he takes it seriously and holds great fear/remorse at it. Even when scumreading a player, he treats them with great respect, and is in no rush to end a day, always waiting until there is nothing more productive to be done. He consistently provides explanations and has an inquisitive tone. He even gives a full reads list, with reasons backing it up. His posting is lighthearted and polite, expressing (not telling) things. He pays attention to the details. He has emotions and plays by feeling. His posting is often multi-layered, accomplishing multiple things. He recognizes alternative opinions to his own and seeks feedback. His overall tone is active and personal. He is not afraid to make a case, spending time to let his thoughts be known.

This game, vezzy is none of those things. He is pushing entirely on the outcome I will flip sour with no thoughts after that. His posts are repetitive and do nothing to advance the gamestate (even having fluff-posting!), and even when they were content, gave nothing of great significance, overall being highly elusive. He lacks the authoritative position, except in brief flashes where he absolutely demands a following. And in said periods of time, he utterly lacks any hint of doubt or regret for his actions. He is demeaning, and is pushing hard to end the day well before the productive talk has been finished. He has not given any explanations, and entirely lacks the inquisitive tone. He refuses to give a proper reads list with actual reasoning. He is vulgar and serious, telling us things. His posting does not show an interest in figuring out the details, and his 'scumhunting' this game has been methodically logical. What little emotions he express are that of anger. His statements are blunt. His posting is direct and holds singular focuses. He is only interested in forcing his own stance on others. His tone is passive and dispassionate. He refuses to put any elaboration in his pushes.


His stances this game have been in contrast to what he has sworn by as town, including his reluctance to give information. His posting this game has been halfhearted. Furthermore, his interactions paint him rather squarely as sour with fliggy and Squirly. In particular, his lack of fear towards bussing along with strong reason to have done so all support this.

His posting has additionally been ridiculously opportunistic, as aside from ceddy, he has not once yet voted against the majority when it comes to the wagons.

Too thoughtful, too devoid of emotion, and overall, too lacking.

Compared to all the other players in the game, he sticks out like a sore thumb.

Vezzy is sour.

I have given you plenty enough to analyze on this to realize that everything I say is true in regards to him.
This is not his town game.
This is his scum game.

However, now that I have stated succinctly the case on Vezzy, I still am in need of stating my feelings on other players, as promised.

[Aunt Jemina]

Have you ever seen me bus a scumbuddy to death?

As you have not been scum in any recently-completed games, no, I have not. (Your last completed scumgame that is accessible is Neruzian Era. In which, you did in fact bus: your first vote the entire game was on Toon Fighter, your scumbuddy. Your next non-mastin vote was on pappums rat, your other scumbuddy. In fact, I would recommend this game for reading by everyone. Please iso vezzy in this game, and note the things he did in that game which he is also doing this game: Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

This day already feels dragged on. That's why we have a ton of lurkers. I don't think the opinion of a guy who just replaced in is super important day 1.

Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

Lynch someone already.
You people. We aren't lynching any of those today. Change your vote to a big wagon.

Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

unvote
vote hiplop

This day just needs to end.

Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

Why isn't edmund dead yet?

Are we just playing around until everyone gets prodded?

This in particular seems eerily familiar.

Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

unvote
vote Toon fighter

Finally I can end this day.

Literally, you lynched your scumbuddy D1.

Subject: Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

FAIL scum team.
I could've won this if my scum team wasn't so fail.

And here you make it explicit that you are intolerant of incompetence from scumbuddies, which fliggy certainly was.)

However, I would yet again like to point out that you

vastly

exaggerate your part in fliggy's demise.

[Aunt Jemina]

In short, for those who do not wish to actually read: I did not include Neruzian Era Mafia in my list of meta games, as it was three years ago. However, I am thinking that I should have: though his play has certainly improved, that game is nearly identical to this one in overall tone. He was unafraid to bus his scumbuddies and thought them incompetent. Here, he has made it clear he was unafraid to bus a scumbuddy if he thought them incompetent, which fliggy was. There, he has the exact same tone as he has held this game, up to and including the demeaning voice and the command to end the days earlier.

Additionally, though vezzy insists he was a driving force behind the fliggy lynch, his contribution to it aside from his vote is a grand total of two (with two additional ones that I do not count) lines:

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That was me. I didn't think displaced was trying to smear anyone. My impression was that displaced merely wanted to make a post. It isn't like mozamis was the only player that displaced could have chastised for making a gut decision based on a posting style. For example, Aunt Jemina made such a decision on PeregrineV. Anyway, I would have characterized displaced's post as a nothing post - did not reveal any suspicions, did not press anyone, and did not particularly contribute to the discussion. There are several players that fall into that category currently. It is the weekend, though. Personally, I'm going to give them a couple more days and then revisit who is contributing and who is coasting.

This to me seems like scum posting 101. A lot of phrases that say nothing at all. You name people in your posts just for the sake of examples.

Anyone who isn't voting ruffing or zzzx should reread these two guys.

unvote
vote the ruffing

This is the closest he gets to having a case.

Ok. Are you scum?

Apparently, you didn't figure it out. That's ok, just pay attention to displaced - he caught all of the problems with Pidgey's posts that I was picking at.

VOTE: Pidgey

This guy avoids the question I asked. And it is an incredibly simple question. Please tell me you can see how scummy he is.

This post does not truly even count, as the question he asked was "are you scum", to which the answer is obvious; fliggy not responding is not alignment-indicative.

Ruffling is too funy but it shoudln't be hard for to see if they are scum

Just look at ruffing in ISO and you will know why you need to vote him.

This also does not truly count, as he is telling players to look at the iso without telling them what to look at. The only other post of his which is content on fliggy is this:

Why am I missing the whole Rufflig=scum thing? Did he slip and post his role PM or something?

All his posts scream of scum.
Cautious scum and way too thoughtful. There is literally no town emotion coming from him.

Which was not even true of fliggy's posting and is a much better description of

vezzy

's posting, but which I am counting as a point to be generous.

Let me show you in another post the difference between vezzy's push and other pushes.

[Aunt Jemina]

Thanks AJ, and everyone else for the info. I haven't had the chance to read it all yet.

Anyone have anything else to add before I hammer?

I am not finished, yet.

I have more to say.
Not just on vezzy, but on others.
I am still working as I speak on it.

Additionally,

Grinny has not yet given his own thoughts.

So, yes, deary.
We have things to add.

[Aunt Jemina]

Spoiler: pidgey on fliggy

Rufflin- i dont get your read on me bro umm whats exactly wrong here?

Displaced looked like a usual d1 scum trying to look like a participating member of town by kindaish calling someone out without much commitment.

Granted i did not noticed he was voting for that person before he did that post so that does kinda weakens my case huh? Ill look into other peepe later

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

In my opinion, displaced's post is in no way or form throwing dirt on someone. When I pressed pidgey on this, his explanation changed to this:

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That is a dramatic change in pidgey's reason to vote for displaced.

Ok so I don't really see the case (INB4 OOOO TRYING TO DISCREDIT ME and OOOO PUSHING READS AWAY)

First of all, I dont even see the difference between my two posts. I felt that displaced said some comments about a player and I thought ht wasnt commiting to a read, and was just saying the comments to see who'd read his statement and agree, THEN vote. I didn't knew at the time he was voting said player already.

Saying he threw dirt and saying he made a point about a player without really commiting is A DRAMATIC CHANGE HOW THE FUCK EXACTLY?

You are totally taking my words out of the context they are meaning to have.
Scum.

vote: The Rufflig

Rufflig i wont go into an all out discussion with you.

First:
Unless you are using a strange meaning for throwing dirt - the phrase means to slander or vilify. If you feel displaced was throwing dirt then I will repeat my earlier question. "Was displaced throwing dirt on mozamis or mozamis' read?" Alternatively, could you explain how displaced performed such an action?

whats the difference here omg between mozamis and his read. I thought it was scummy the way he worded that sentence. I didnt knew he was voting the guy, it all changed after that. OMG OMG OMG. I wont answer anything about my first 2 sentences again.

Second:
Making a point without committing to a read. Why can't displaced disagree with something (or someone) without finding it scummy? I found displaced's comment neutral. Why is a neutral comment scummy? Or maybe you do find that comment not neutral. What is non-neutral about it?

I found it scummy. Sry bro its just the way i read it, i didnt like the words and the lack of vote, as i've said. Keep hammering on that point.

Could you tell me why you singled out displaced? I'm quite sure others have committed the same offense that you have attributed to displaced.

He was one of the last that had posted and (i think 2 posts before i posted) and i hadnt read anything else HEHEHE. But yeah, thats the truth.

Nice to see you decides to vote me until rufflig voted for me and that idiot red bird did too, when apperantly you had come to the same conclusion that rufflig already had 10 pages ago but decided not to vote then because ?????

I fucking bet my ass one of those 2 is scunm. Not both though, that would be obvious. My bet is still ruff

(Those 2= ruff and displaced. The red bird is just a lazy sheep that read saw words and thought "oo a case")

Ruff whats your solid case against me if youdrop that displaced part?

Guys please vote ruff

First, are you paying attention to anyone? Even pidgey now states that the post was neutral -- that is the damn basis of his case against displaced -- that displaced did not take a side with his post.

That's now untrue and doesnt hold up though. I again think it was scummish. I thought it was neutral because when i pressed displaced he thought me he was voting already, but casually forgot to mention that he was voting someone else entirely.

It turns out that I can drop this point from my case and still have a damn solid case against pidgey.

I already fucking asked what's your case if you drop that point tell me another knee slapper lol, you have not pressented a thing. INB4 big words like dishonesty, manipulation, etc without evidence.

Nero stop posting double posts what the fuckkkkkk

Would like some reads from you.

At the moment? I dont have too many but i think
Ruffling - very scum
Displaced - Could be scum, not with ruffling
Nero - Town
Chandra - Feels town
jklash - Lazy asshole but maybe town
Umbrage - Makes me weary, not sure.
ThAdmiral - Wierdly lurking
SG/Yates - Both feel townish
ZZZX/Charizard - Need to reread because apperantly they are scummy. Though charizards bugs me more.

@ mr killer:
Why the hell did you not killed me or the rufflig? I hate you.

Will get back into this game today, im on holiday here in Mexico

Also lynch this guy

vote: The Rufflig

I shot Aronis and I am town. I shot because I honestly thought he had a good chance of being scum because my previous game with him he was a lot more active was trying to find scum unlike this game.

I think that was a mediocre shot. You had already voted for me, and people had votes on me, so why not kill me since that would at least clear a lot? From a town mindset, it was a weak move dude. As i said when you voted me, you seem like lazy town and that kill was a lazy decision if you really are town.

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

I don't think you are obv scum but i think you do sometimes have done callouts without really commiting. Still unsure what to think of you but if i had to lean on who is winning in your argument with umbrage, its prob him.

}
My only real response to Yates is that I felt and still feel that pidgey came on too hard on displaced over what was almost certainly nothing. The attack on pidgey seems forced and opportunistic.

Again, when did i went too hard? You are conveniently twisting words yet again. I'd paste my exact response again, but i used sentences that would, at worst, describe a weakish scum read of mine at the time. Sure, that's not a fledged case, so would you rather i keep RVS voting?
Also, my attack being forced and oportunistic is laughable IM FUCKING MAD WHY CANT YOU GUYS SEE THIS GUY IS FUCKING OBVIOUS SCUM. Look, he first said that I CONFUSED MY REASONS AND THAT I WAS MAKING SHIT UP. When that is clarified, he is now saying it was FORCED. AND OPPORTUNISTIC. This is AN ENTIRE NEW THING OF WHAT HE HAS CALLED ME SCUM FOR BEFORE, YET CASUALLY MENTIONS IT. Im really

Im gonna point this again, the fact is that it has been proven, by multiple people (Yates, Chandra, Bulba) that you just said whatever the fuck you invented regarding me and your case. And that you've dropped your argument cause it had no footing without never really clearing all the questions me and others asked.
This guy is scum guys seriously.

Squirrel- Lately i dont know how to feel about you.
I dont like the fact that you said you'd keep the ruffling eve if he was scum because this could be multi group, which i do agree is more than likely, but that's still a wierd as fuck thing to say.
I dont get how you got a town read on him, this i need explanation because i did not understood the 664 explanation, how can you take that with any kind of value after the multiple times he has been shown to misrep what i've posted and conviniently ignored certain call outs?
Im thinking you could be his partner if he ends up being scum.

Kid A still looks townish, and thats a hard thing to accept because he sucks.

Yates i can give enough credit to play as scum with the way he has played, i think he is good and could pull it off. That said i feel welll about him and i think he is town.

Chandra is freaking obv town cause he basically reacts the same way i do to all of the bullshit that happens in this game. Id be surprised if he was part of any scum team, if multiple.

Josh B seems townish

ZXXX guy seems scummier to me, but is not a priority at the moment. I could feel him being confused town, but for the most part some of his content in that post giving reads a couple of pages ago seems rushed and forced, like calling my posts filler or whatever. Also 610 is horrible and just a "BLEH" post, since i dont really seem to remember all your scum suspects.

ALSO NOTE SINCE PROBABLY NOT MANY REALIZED IT, but votes were reset when the day kill happened.

There are too many lurkers in this game, and thats also really bad (And the only good part of Aronis being killed actually). There has to be a good probablity of scum hanging in there.

SG-
I currently think yates is more likely town than scum, yeah. He could be scum but not really feeling that at this point because he is actually not spewing clarant bullshit like other players.

Also i thought you had said that about rufflig lol, i guess i gotta go back and see who it was. SOMEONE DID SAID IT I DONT REMEMBER WHO. Current issue with that slot is all over my iso but id try to summarize it, but im super sure in my scum read on him...

Ill reread your yates case with more attention on it I guess.

Also, would you be willing to vote for Ruff? I'm really pretty sure on my Ruff scum read? :p

P.D: Lynch the ruff

I dunno i have no reads yet nero seems town for now.

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

vote: Displaced

First post I made with content btw, even if ruff says "You (among others) have also made neutral comments without taking a stand on them."

Seriously he just comes up with anything he wants to come up with.

Can we fucking lynch Rufflig i bet my ass he is scum.

Ok, catching up:

Josh B- I still dont think his comment regarding scum teams is a slip per se. It didnt really felt that bad as some people made it out to be, and his initial comments regarding the fake claims and the setup still feel like confused, frustrated, new town in this game.

Displaced- I actually agree plenty with his post on 829. It was a pretty weak case to do.

I didnt had a read on Jemina but right now, although the weak case on JoshB bothers me plenty, im feeling kinda ok with the slot.

Yates- I still dont see a solid case on him, really. Other than squirrel girl, i dont feel that anyone else has had a legit reason to vote him. Its not like i feel he is a big town read or anything, but i think people have hopped on the wagon very smoothly and i dunno, its just weird that yates is getting all the attention when i find him to be pretty legit.

ArcAngel looks okeyish right now. Dont really feel worries about him at the moment.

Chandra is the towniest town that ever towned D1. Anyone wanting to vote him seriously needs to stop.

I had not commented about Moz because he seems the type of player to be good at what he does as either allignement, but ive shared a lot of his POV and opinions, so i feel town.

I dont really have a gut read on unfriendly but i dont mind voting him later on if people dont catch up with rufflig the scum. His vote on josh was really bleh. ZXXX is still a good vote cause nothing he has done has convinced me he is town.

TheAdmiral- The case on ruffling was an ongoing turn of events, you should either iso me or chandra or yates probably or go through about page 12 of the thread. Id link but im at work and with limited time.

JoshB, SG, Anyone asking- No the Disney Mafia post was regarding Umbrage, nothing to do with SG and thats mixing things up. What I said about SG is that it was weird that she pointed out i was scum hunting right out of the gate. I think you both have a misunderstanding there.

Stopped at page 35, will continue later.

Rufflig- Seriousy? You are a fucking asshole on top of scum. Ive been busy as hell and ive stated it on the stupid thread.

Goddamit please FUCKING VOTE THIS GUY.

Catching up as i WRITE.

Ruff its nice that UP UNTIL THIS POINT WHEN UN IS GETTING A LOT OF FUCKING ATTENTION you put my scum read on UN into question, but i said that comment BEFORE YOU VOTED HIM, when you yourself had said NOTHING about him and just sheeped because you are a survivalstic scumbo.

Seriously guys, please lynch this slot

LYNCH RUFFLIN tm

Mfw we are voting the guy that cant claim

Mfw ruffling is getting a free pass

Mfw people are voting chandra and josh

Look everyone has said the would mind voting rufflin or that they think he is scummy. Only like SG is saying he is town.

This is an example of someone pushing fliggy hard. Nearly the entirety of his posting is pushing fliggy. No player deserves more credit for the lynch than pidgey, in fact.

[Aunt Jemina]

Anyone have anything else to add before I hammer?

I am not finished, yet.

I have more to say. Not just on vezzy, but on others. I am still working as I speak on it.
Additionally,

Grinny has not yet given his own thoughts.

So, yes, deary. We have things to add.

We have things to add.

Yes, deary. We.
I have things to add.
Grinny has things to add.
Thus, 'we'.

[Aunt Jemina]

Spoiler: BulbyFenny on fliggy

Chandra didn't ask me for a response to anything in her post and I really don't want to start a wall war. So, I've decided not to rip Chandra's post to shreds by posting a wall (I saved it, though). If there's anything in Chandra's post that anyone wants a response to, let me know.

I'd like to see the whole thing, if ya don't mind.

BulbaFenix:

Seems to be focusing on setup more than the scum hunting which is a scum tell they say, Well I don't trust what they said (I am looking at you mafia scum wiki!) But he has way too low posts and way lower content for a normal player or a hydra

Leaning Scum?

This is wrong and assuming things. Firstly, I'm not FOCUSING on setup, I'm giving input on theories that always cross my mind when playing mafia. I can admit that my content is low, due to putting my studies FIRST and foremost (I'm a week from finals... Paranoid as balls).

Secondly, anyone that comes up on my radar (Chandra, Kid A when he gets his ass in here, Rufflig's little theory deal), I will ask questions about and to them. It may not be the most conventional way to hunt, but I prefer to have a different method of hunting than most.

~Fenix

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

Either bussing or very tired bulba.

What don't you like?

JoshB and/or PV, you were speculating about Kid A claiming wolverine. With him saying this, would this make him a bad lynch because of the uncertainty of his role or would it make him a good lynch because he claimed as he did?

Thanks

I hope PV responds to this too. probably Chandra{Is it your Birthday?},Fenix, and some of the others that were in on the conversation earlier can talk about this too. My original theory that such an early claim that wasn't counter claimed was a sign of it being town. The extent of counterclaims however indicates that unless his role lines up with his claim, it could be a predetermined fake claim.
My position is that his play style lines up with an inexperienced pioneer(someone that likes to wagon). However, it's not the case that he is inexperienced, so his play style this game has been purposely anti- town trolling. I have a theory about why an semi-experienced player claiming wolverine would do that, but I think it should be proven on a future DP.

I'd say he's scum based on play. His claiming is actually null, although I'm leaning scum on it for other reasons I'd rather not disclose.

-Bulba

Did Ruffling town it up lately or something?

No.

Chandra's posts towards me were deliberately inflammatory.

How is refuting your points and asking you to actually back up your assertions being "deliberately inflammatory"?

-Bulba

I'd like to take this moment to note your decision to start out by discrediting me as "not paying attention" and then to do exactly nothing in the rest of the post to demonstrate that I was not paying attention. You're just trying to sound pretty.

If you had been paying attention, I wouldn't have to keep correcting all your errors that you keep posting. As expected, the wall only brought contradictions from you without any arguments or proof.

1)

You did not correct any errors in the post in question.

2)

You probably suspect no one will read closely enough to realize that this point is flagrantly made up.

3)

Contradictions: lol, show me them.

4)

Arguments: I'm pretty sure my post was comprised entirely of arguments.

5)

Proof: Is what scum demand when they are suspected on grounds they don't think are the correct ones, and is not a real thing that exists in mafia outside of power roles.

1) Straight up contradiction.
2) Accusation of making things up.
3) I'd rather not have to quote the whole previous wall.
4) Straight up contradiction.
5) Mud slinging. Proof also consists of quoting posts to prove that you aren't making things up or to prove that someone is making stuff up. Looks like I'm going to have to quote a lot of it of the previous post.

1.) How is it a contradiction?
2.) Okay. And?
3.) That's okay. You didn't show them in the previous wall either.
4.) Again, how?
5.) I wouldn't say it's mudslinging, given that it's a direct response to your post. The Burden of Proof has always rested on you to show that what you're saying is true. That is what Chandra keeps asking, yet you keep refusing to provide evidence to. She's right that you saying that her wall does not provide proof is a scummy action designed to change the focus of attention.

I never stated that I voted for Bulbafenix because his wagon was larger. You're extrapolating from what I did say to something that isn't true.

I asked why she wanted a bulbafenix wagon. Her response was that her wagon was bigger. She is correct in the sense that she didn't use the word 'voting', but this is hair-splitting. The reason someone wants a wagon and the reason they are voting someone are the same. Straight up contradiction and mud slinging (i.e. that I was making stuff up. I did use the word voting when referring to these posts at some point though.

The second half of my post asked if I could interest her in a Aronis wagon then gave a weak reason for an Aronis wagon. I think the context is clear that I was asking Chandra to explain her push behind BulbaFenix.

Except you never quoted the post where she said all this regarding her vote on our wagon. She keeps asking you to back up your statements, which you refuse to do so. Even now you refuse to show actual evidence of her doing what you say she's doing, even though that evidence would be most beneficial to your case right now.

Time to move on to her non-contradiction and "argument" answers

Completely different. I didn't do any misleading.

I don't believe there is anything.

(Hint: It's not solid)

First of all, it's only neutral by your say-so.

Second of all, YOU don't seem to have been paying attention, because we literally just cleared up the confusion about "throwing dirt" last page.

Oh, hey. ^ The second part actually contains an argument.

I don't see the contradictions here.

You assume that the response to your question is "no, you couldn't look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent".

You seem awfully sure that displaced has no scummy intent. Is it because you know he's town?

Should I point out that Chandra herself has since stated that she doesn't believe in pidgey's argument, either? This was a point that Chandra actually agrees with. She went out of her way to try and use this against me.

Her belief in pidgey's argument is separate from her questioning of you. She's inquiring into your beliefs surrounding Pidgey's argument. Her beliefs are not on trial.

Go ahead, quote it, and I'll tell you how that's not what I said. I'm waiting.

I think I've covered this sufficiently in this post already. Eh, she could have just responded to the topic instead of just saying "No, it isn't". Next!

Asking you to prove your point by providing evidence of your assertions is not scummy. Btw, you still haven't done this.

No, it was not. You asked me if I was interested in voting Aronis, and I told you the Bulba wagon was larger. I did not tell you that was why I was voting on it.

"No, it isn't". *sigh* My wagon is bigger. This was the reason she gave for wanting the BulbaFenix wagon and/or not wanting the Aronis wagon depending on how you read my initial post. It amounts to the same thing. This is more hair-splitting so she can justify denying everything.

Again, quotes please.

Actually, I have no interest in disproving that statement or of telling you I think that scummy intent exists. What I think about it is entirely irrelevant to the fact that you were putting those words in someone's mouth.

She is claiming my posting style is scummy. To the charge of putting words in someone's mouth I simply state 'rhetorical questions'. These questions formed an argument. Rather than tackle the argument, she tackles me.

I don't see how she's claiming your posting style is scummy. She's very clearly stating you misrepped somebody. Are you trying to say that misrepping people is part of your playstyle?

Why the fuck did someone shoot aronis now.

Is the target as important as the result or what a day death implies? Honestly, the rest of it is wifom. Maybe it was someone who thought he bread crumbed doc. Maybe it was someone trying to make it look like he was killed by someone who thought he bread crumbed doc. Both are equally likely and uninteresting given how little we know.

What makes you think Aronis was shot for breadcrumbing Doc? That's a very specific assertion.

HALF the BWs that are going on right now are shit and are lead by scum

Given that nobody was voting at that point, I doubt it. However, this is a rather strange statement for you to make.

That was almost definitely a town kill. Scum don't shoot lurkers, and no scum would use a daykill on D1.

I actually agree with this.

Can someone summarize the Rufflig case for me?

Style over substance. When he gets called out, especially to provide evidence for his arguments, he'll slink off and makes some excuse like "I'm getting tired of the wall wars." and then act like he's the better man. As you can see in my response, he doesn't actually back up his assertions, instead choosing to discredit and misrep the players he's talking about.

Why vote him over obvscum beastcharizard?

Because Bc's not obv. scum.

Dear Diary, I found another guy who ignored my reply to him and uses same BS argument which has been proven so false. While he is saying I did things I didnt do such as Role Fishing.

Also the dear town has been ignoring my posts with only Yates replying to them. I am actually liking him for that.

Now I got voted for reasons that do not exsist while scum pushes me for fake reasons and noone notices.

This seems like a normal day indeed.

#ZZZX

Dear Diary,

They're on to me. I have to create some sort of counter wagon to get them off my trail. Luckily, one of my strongest attackers is starting to get votes. That seems like a good option. I hope no one realizes I'm scum.

Hugs and kisses,
ZZZX

Vote Rufflig

-Bulba

Here's my problem with those posts, Rufflig. Your analysis shows that you have a clear understanding that this is a misunderstanding between Chandra and Beast, yet you take a complete 180 at the end and use it to frame an attack on Chandra. Essentially you're WKing Beast so that you can attack one of your most vocal attackers.

-Bulba

I do not claim to be objective towards Chandra. Given how much Chandra and I have yelled at each other, I do not expect anyone to take me at my word on matters pertaining to her.

I understand, but if you acknowledge that Chandra and Beast are misunderstanding each other, and your continual analysis continues to show that they're misunderstanding each other, I can't see how you then turn around and vote Chandra for a twisting Beast's posts.

Quick question? What did you think of the interaction between Umbrage and Chandra (if anything)?

I haven't seen anything that sticks out to me, and I don't know why you're asking. I don't think Chandra was sheeping Umbrage, if that was what you were getting at.

still haven't seen a lynch candidate that rivals beastcharizard...

The dragon doesn't need to be slain. It's duck season. Help us lynch Rufflig.

-Bulba

To me, it looked like Chandra was buddying up to Umbrage.

I don't see that.

Top 4 wagons suck.

What's your top pick then?

UnfriendlyNeighbors. A hydra of Mastin/Nero (who have, in games this size put up more posts than some complete Newbie games) with nothing to say is not VT or a town PR. They are scum.

I think you mean Mac/Cabd.

UnfriendlyNeighbors. A hydra of Mastin/Nero (who have, in games this size put up more posts than some complete Newbie games) with nothing to say is not VT or a town PR. They are scum.

This is a good point. Nero was also trying to provoke/continue arguments between myself and Josh AND SG while not so subtly misrepping. I'll buy it.

VOTE: UnfriendlyNeighbors

This is opportunistic.

@ people voting rufflig: no one has given me a clear case on him, and I've asked for this at least a couple of times

Bull crap.

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

That was literally in the very post we voted him in.

Unfriendly looks townish, even if a little too safe at times, wish he'd gave more stand out points.

That's the problem. I have a hard time believing that Cabd as town would be playing it safe.

-Bulba

Considering Cabd hasn't made any posts of real substance either, I wouldn't say he's been playing it safe. Most of them have been me.

That's my point. I'd expect this from you, but not from Cabd. I'd expect Cabd-town to be having a bigger influence on the game than he has.

Is there any possiblity, this guy could be scum day vig? Is that allowed in this setup?

It's possible, but killing Aronis would have been a dumb move as scum.

No idea if he is an alt [my hunch is yes].

Why do you think Jklash is an alt?

My primary qualm about UN being scum is "if they were scum, would they really suck this badly?" They're better than this either way, though.

This is about par for the course for Mac. As for Cabd, I've caught him on uncharacteristic play before, and this is uncharacteristic of Cabd.

note to self, keep an eye on ArcAngel

also why is beastcharizard not lynched yet?

AA9 and BC are both town. Now how about you stop focusing on lynch bait and actually help us lynch scum.

479: Makes no sense and contradicts its self, Let me read it again

WOW! ZZZX that is a really unfriendly post that indicates UFN has a power role that somebody doesn't want to lose.

Quick Town! Drop the hammers on Unfriendly Neighbors.

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

Fenix, who do you want to fry (top 3) I might even provide the oil!

Rufflig, Yates, or Viomi have my fryer set to auto boil/fry

~Fenix

^^^^
this dies before lylo

Nero, calm down. Differing opinions do not automatically warrant death, no matter how dumb.

oh yay I fucking LOVE meta arguments

especially meta arguments that don't link to past games or specific examples of behaviour

Look at Fire Emblem: Awakening.

Thinking about scum teams is fairly common, and Josh merely voiced an opinion based on earlier setup spec. I don't see how that was so unusual. He essentially said that he had scumreads on both SG and Yates, and that he didn't think they were scum together. Based on the earlier multiball spec, it was pretty natural for him to imagine that the fight might be scum/scum, where they were both on separate teams. Heck, I've actually considered that possibility. I don't see how that automatically makes Josh scum.

Out of curiosity - how did you react to his case (now dropped and ignored like a bad habit as soon as I pointed out how unsupportable and weird it was) wherein he advanced the theory that I had recalled which reads I'd stated in thread or not by mixing them up in a scum Daychat discussing my scumreads with my scumbuddies, wherein we're apparently hunting scum there. Did that seem like a logical advance to you in the same vein, or does that lend support to the idea that he's taking scum theorizing a little too oddly specific and is therefore scum?

Yeah, that was kinda weird. Although, admittedly, I couldn't really follow what he was saying with some of those abbreviations.

Man this back and forth by josh and Zzzx.

Though mostly null, it is not entirely pointless. Zexxy looks slightly more sweet and Joshy slightly more sour as a result of the exchange.

Really? Because I got the opposite.

My games are usually more smooth when I'm scum. Compare something like FE:A to NY165

I'm actually using One and Done as a comparison.

And what do you make of his screaming that I'm a mafia PR and then going after the people defending me instead?

Him being caught up in tunnel vision.

Of course, YOU lynching us means you're committing suicide, character wise, but eh?

I refuse to accept that I'm not a BP, Sane Cop, Vig. I should not be in the same power class as lightweights like Thor!

It's too bad Thor was a VT.

Metal's gambit makes me think town. Most (all?) "lolz" gambits I have seen on site have come from town.

Didn't seem like a Lolz gambit. 1184 That's two shots against town from the same slot. We already knew that Jklash dayvig'd once. Whether or not he still has a second shot is debateable. With Jklash, I thought this is just a player that doesn't know how to use it. With a new player in the same slot pulling the same crap. It looks really scummy.

It's just Metal Sonic being Metal Sonic. I agree that I'd want him to be policy lynched if he vigged again this late in the day, but he's probably town.

I would prefer a Rufflig lynch over Yates, primarily since that slot is getting replaced. Pushes against such slots unnerve me, since there's no one there to defend against any allegations. It would be an easy lynch for scum to push at this point.

-Bulba

Could I define some of the abbreviations to get a more solid response out of you on the issue? You're town reading and defending the guy over this issue, and I think that's a pretty weird post that speaks *directly* to the question of him seeming too aware/convinced of multi scum (and other things) and yet you don't seem to be coming out with a clear response about his townishness in regards to it. He presumes two scum teams, okay, that's believable from town, I suppose, though I personally think it's a bit of a stretch (maybe a 50/50 in larges? I dunno - making up numbers here). Then he makes the jump to daytalk, which from what I can tell is hardly a given on this site (call it another 50/50 - and I failed/never took statistics, but that's probably a 25% or so theory game he's created in his head...that he's *using to scumhunt with*). Then he goes a step further and is like, scum are scumhunting with each other in their QTs. Which...I don't think I've ever seen, and though I guess it could be happening it...y'know, is weird. Like, first off, what sort of accusation is that to even throw at someone? What can I even say about it? And why does he believe it enough to state it with confidence? That moment made me basically as happy with a Josh lynch as a Yates lynch - and I didn't think that was going to happen today. I was pretty happy in my tunnel (and don't think it's anti-town even though it makes others grumpy). Can you tell me the town thought process here? Is it just "lulz, paranoia!" because that seems rather unlikely. What are your thoughts?

I could understand the multiball spec, although I found the QT spec weird. To be honest, I wasn't sure whether it actually was QT spec, as Josh was using a different abbreviation. It wasn't QT or PT, but something like DP or the like, which made me wonder if he might be talking about something else. In fact, he seems to be using DP to mean Day Phase, so I'm not so sure he's talking about day chat at all.

We need more votes on Rufflig.

-Bulba

I agree DP means Day Phase, that makes sense and is my read too.
Now...who are the people I'm talking to if they are not people posting in the thread and in the Day Phase?
Right - scum in my scum chat.

I stand by my take of what he said. I'm not sure how you're getting anything else from it. Can you tell me what you think he was saying if it wasn't about a scum QT? I'm open to other ways to take what he's saying, i just don't think there are any.

Seeing as how he's asking for you to provide evidence that showed how your read on Displaced changed, I think he's referring to you talking to other people in the game, i.e. was the read change part of a conversation.

Even look at that, Josh isn't even caring about the situation, he's fine with Bulba defending him from what I'm saying, and he quick lazy wagons at the same time. Add him to my list of 'I can't believe people are not just not-scumreading him, but are town reading him.'

He joins Yates.

Stop whining about compromise votes near deadline and vote Rufflig.

-Bulba

@ Everyone that's saying the reason they won't vote Yates 'cause he can't claim-dl is in 14 hours, lets say we run Ruffles up and get a claim...what is the point 'cause I don't think we'll have time to rewagon and then the onlt viable wagon after Ruffling is Yates so....what is the point in getting a claim?

My point has nothing about a claim. My point is that going after a slot that is getting replaced is rather cheap. I can understand why you are doing so, since you've been pushing the Yates-scum wagon for the longest time, but those that jumped on after Yates asked for replacement have a lot of explaining to do. Overall, I'd rather not lynch there today.

Seeing as how he's asking for you to provide evidence that showed how your read on Displaced changed, I think he's referring to you talking to other people in the game, i.e. was the read change part of a conversation.

I really don't see anything in what he said that supports that belief.

Wow! SqG, this post totally flipped my read on you... except I can't find where you called any of those people scum. Can you link to it? Because...

In this post I discuss 8 people who I gave reads on already.
You point out that 3 of them were not clearly stated...and are not actually even correct, I had a number of flat out clear comments that you just didn't even find, making me not even sure you even managed to show that I didn't...and I'm not sure what it shows even if you did. Mostly I think you're scum though.

WHERE ARE THE CLEAR COMMENTS? I WANT YOU TO SHOW THEM TO ME! nac

I specifically asked you about displaced earlier and you called him Null. Now all of a sudden he's scum and you've called him scum before. Were you talking to people in the DP when you said it? cause you have people on you right now saying that your reads post is bogus.

He asked where you said it and asked if you were talking to people in the DP (day phase) when you said it. I don't see anything about day talk here. This looks like asking for clarification for when you switched your reads.

I would prefer a Rufflig lynch over Yates, primarily since that slot is getting replaced. Pushes against such slots unnerve me, since there's no one there to defend against any allegations. It would be an easy lynch for scum to push at this point.

Hey, cool! I'll go tell the mod I'm replacing out. Want to know something? It won't change a damn thing. No one is making any allegations against either of us and haven't for quite some time. The town and scum are both being lazy. They are both comfortable where the votes are heading. Me? I don't like the leading wagons.

VOTE: Chandra

Seriously! Why isn't this dead yet?
-Bulba

I am too lazy to strip out the parts of this which are not about fliggy, however, every post I quote contains an element furthering a case against fliggy. Though pidgey holds the honor of being the hardest pusher, BulbyFenny is second on the list. Look at this. This is the normal amount. This is what a pro-town player pushing their sourread will create. As a reminder, vezzy has a grand total of four mentions, two of which are useless, one of which is wrong, and the first of which is early in the game to the point of being nearly-useless thanks to how weak a point it is. BulbyFenny created...this, this above right here.

[Aunt Jemina]

I am having some minor technical difficulties with the Nally quotes for some reason, so for the time being, I suggest searching Nally's iso for "ruf". (Ruffles is a common enough name to make searching for Rufflig miss some results.)

As with BulbyFenny, I am too lazy to remove the non-fliggy parts, but understand that I am technically in error with my statement; BulbyFenny is not second; that honor is Nally's. (BulbyFenny is, however, the third-hardest pusher of fliggy.) Nally, here, pushed fliggy about harder than any other player aside from pidgey. Many posts, barraged one after another on fliggy to the point where Nally had to hold back from spamming the thread excessively.

As a reminder, vezzy if you are being generous has...four, all early, all not contributing much.

[Aunt Jemina]

I believe I have found the source of the issue to be multiquoting, as I am having a similar problem when running through Joshy's iso. However, note that he asked about fliggy in 575, 627, 646, 675, 702, a rather important vote in 703, and follow-through in 738, 742, and drives it in 791, 798, 844, commentary in 970, and a revote in 1298.

Though not all of those are strong, that is 13 posts, most of which are, with a decent amount of strength, pushing through the lynch on fliggy.
vezzy, as another reminder, had four in close proximity.

[Aunt Jemina]

And I realize Nero was scum, but even he has more credentials to the fliggy lynch than vezzy does:
424, the vote in 552, his inquiry in 585, calling out Squirly's townread in 589, his push in 720, another one in 952 that is stronger, a scum list in 962, and saying he's scum in 1015 (albeit not a focus), 1168 is furthering it some more, 1220 has him furthering fliggy while preferring Yates, as stated stronger in 1303, a point in 1318, a

very

strong one in 1324, along with a minor one in 1325, and a final joining of the wagon in 1328. 1330 has a little as well.

This is coming from a flipped scum player. Though these are mostly minimalistic attacks, they are consistently placed throughout the game, all contributing something new, and all holding validity to them.

Vezzy, yet again, had four. At the beginning of the game. Which were largely invalid.

[Aunt Jemina]

And though I must note that Thaddy did not give much meaningful contribution to the fliggy case, what little contribution he

did

give is worth far more value than the combined total from vezzy's efforts. I of course speak of 1028, where Thaddy gives his own thoughts on fliggy, and actually states that while he disagrees with the finer details, he agrees with the overall point behind it. 1032 furthers it, also bringing his total to the maximum I consider vezzy worthy of. 1116 magnifies this exponentially, where he hammers fliggy on his switches. At a key moment, in 1344, he revotes, and states the positon fliggy falls under in his next post. This is not as strong as previously-mentioned contributions, but in a short span of time, Thaddy did more to lynch fliggy than vezzy did the entirety of D1.

[Aunt Jemina]

All of those are just the players which I can tell you, definitively and fully objectively, contributed directly far more to the fliggy lynch than vezzy himself did. mozzy/Kitty/Sonny/ceddy/Cabby are not without contributions, and there may be contributions to the wagon that did not vote the lynch. (I would need to iso every player to find this out.)

Combine this with vezzy's known history of bussing incompetent scumbuddies (and fliggy most certainly fits the bill), the unnatural nature of his fliggy interactions, his consistently leaving himself an out, plus the timing of his fliggy contributions, and the conclusion could not be any more clear:
vezzy deserves no such credit for being on the fliggy wagon. He was scum bussing.

[Aunt Jemina]

Now that I have fully completed the vezzy case in its entirety, however, I have to point out a couple of factors.

• It is possible I have made a slight miscalculation, and that vezzy is not in fact Marvel scum: there exists the possibility (albeit I feel this conclusion to be far less likely) that vezzy is DC scum, who bussed Vinny for the same reasons I have posited for the fliggy bus, which is supported by his strange Ragey/Tussy interactions and similarity to Nero in play and stances. (However, again I must emphasize I do not currently believe this to be the case.)
  
• Though I find it incredibly improbable, I am not in fact infallible and it is theoretically possible that vezzy is in fact town. In either of these two cases, the question is raised: if vezzy isn't Marvel, then who is?
  
• Even if vezzy is Marvel, if the game does not end with his lynch, this reveals that a DC scum is living, and the question would therefore be who would be DC scum. This additionally has a chance of applying if vezzy is somehow sweet (see above), but does not change the factors.

I will be spending my next posts dealing with these hypotheticals.
However, before I begin, to reiterate: these are hypotheticals which are precluded on vezzy not flipping what he is expected to and/or not ending the game after he has been lynched. They are created as a precaution in case I were to be wrong about vezzy. Thus, you should lynch vezzy and only apply what I am going into after his demise if there is a need for it.

I also wish to establish a baseline: Rach/Zexxy could only be a Marvel Godfather; Grinny or vetty could theoretically be either, but factors make it so that were they to be sour, DC is the most likely for those two. Kitty and Beasty are both not scum.

Thus, my posting will be elaborating on these, to explain exactly where they fall on my reads list and why. (It has changed since my last reads list, thanks to some new thoughts.) But again, I cannot emphasize this enough: the posting I am about to embark upon is

not

what I believe to be the truth; it is dealing with what I feel a vezzy town/DC flip would mean for the game or what it would mean for the game if the game continued after his Marvel flip. I am making no effort to lynch Zexxy, Rach, Grinny, or vetty. Quite the opposite, as you will be seeing as I churn out these cases, I am defending their valor as townsfolk. It is done to provide a ranking after vezzy, even though I currently believe such an action is a mere precaution.

[Aunt Jemina]

Let us try that again.
Now that I have fully completed the vezzy case in its entirety, however, I have to point out a couple of factors.

1. It is possible I have made a slight miscalculation, and that vezzy is not in fact Marvel scum: there exists the possibility (albeit I feel this conclusion to be far less likely) that vezzy is DC scum, who bussed Vinny for the same reasons I have posited for the fliggy bus, which is supported by his strange Ragey/Tussy interactions and similarity to Nero in play and stances. (However, again I must emphasize I do not currently believe this to be the case.)
   
2. Though I find it incredibly improbable, I am not in fact infallible and it is theoretically possible that vezzy is in fact town. In either of these two cases, the question is raised: if vezzy isn't Marvel, then who is?
   
3. Even if vezzy is Marvel, if the game does not end with his lynch, this reveals that a DC scum is living, and the question would therefore be who would be DC scum. This additionally has a chance of applying if vezzy is somehow sweet (see above), but does not change the factors.

I will be spending my next posts dealing with these hypotheticals.

However, before I begin, to reiterate: these are hypotheticals which are precluded on vezzy not flipping what he is expected to and/or not ending the game after he has been lynched. They are created as a precaution in case I were to be wrong about vezzy. Thus, you should lynch vezzy and only apply what I am going into after his demise if there is a need for it.

I also wish to establish a baseline: Rach/Zexxy could only be a Marvel Godfather; Grinny or vetty could theoretically be either, but factors make it so that were they to be sour, DC is the most likely for those two. Kitty and Beasty are both not scum.

Thus, my posting will be elaborating on these, to explain exactly where they fall on my reads list and why. (It has changed since my last reads list, thanks to some new thoughts.) But again, I cannot emphasize this enough: the posting I am about to embark upon is

not

what I believe to be the truth; it is dealing with what I feel a vezzy town/DC flip would mean for the game or what it would mean for the game if the game continued after his Marvel flip. I am making no effort to lynch Zexxy, Rach, Grinny, or vetty. Quite the opposite, as you will be seeing as I churn out these cases, I am defending their valor as townsfolk. It is done to provide a ranking after vezzy, even though I currently believe such an action is a mere precaution.

[Aunt Jemina]

I will begin with Rach. I must point out: she is either my strongest or second-strongest (depending on vetty, who is the other) townread overall right now. This is not primarily because of the result on her, however it does contribute. I must admit, though, that my read on her is not based off of anything concrete. It is simply this old lady's instinctive feeling. In games that Rach has been scum in, I have typically been able to tell as much. In games that Rach has been town in, I have also been fairly competent at recognizing this factor. However, I must also say that there is no solid tell that I look for in her. I cannot hone in on any particular factors that give away her alignment. Thus, I fully understand if you do not fully trust this read, yet it is that strong for a reason.

I must play devil's advocate by pointing out her predecessor's condemning interactions with both fliggy and Squirly yet again:

Yates is town, and is stubborn. Squirrel Girl is probably town, and is overeager and stubborn. Neither of them really seemed to be paying close attention to what the other was saying, and was more interested in getting their own slightly-misguided point across.
This game is wayyyy too big for me to take in all the different facets that aren't Yates/SG, so unless something rings some serious alarm bells, I'm probably not going to have much to say until I somehow find a lot of free time to do a thorough read.

Defense of Squirly.

And as for the Pidgey/Rufflig thing...
Reading back, whether or not I agree with Rufflig's case or reasons for voting Pidgey, I see it as more town motivated. He legitimately seems like a townie who believes he's found scum, and Pidgey's aggression and defensiveness is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm saying it's town v town for now. I still don't like Pidgey's defensiveness, but that doesn't make him scum though.

Aronis wasn't scum. I went back through the DP and tried to find out who if anyone was pushing for this. I'm not surprised that I found Ruflig.
ZZZX can wait for now, Let's ratchet this Back up to where it needs to be.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ruflig

Is Rufflig's page 3 vote on Aronis your main reason for voting him now?

Defense of fliggy.

I am really not comfortable with the Rufflig wagon. I don't think I'm going to be down with his lynch unless he does something that is actually scummy. Imagining that there's likely at least one or two scum on his wagon at this point.

Purely pointing out devil's advocate, this is a Fliggy defense rather strongly. Going into an actual defense of Rach's slot, I can however point out that this post is clearly thinking in terms of single-faction: you would not expect a scum player to speak in terms of thinking "at least one or two scum" on a wagon in multiball. It is a phrase I commonly associate with single-faction scum games, for analyzing where scum are likely to be. Though this is not strong, it does at least support my stance.

Ah fair enough. I think I'll need to reread again and talk it over with the other head, I really didn't pick up on that on my read through. I'll have to look at Rufflig and SG's interactions some more. When I've looked at it, I've seen Rufflig pushing his case pretty hard, particularly on Pidgey, but I also chalk that up to Pidgey's aggressive reactions there.

This is more fliggy/Squirly interactions. However, I yet again maintain my original conclusion: it is too many interactions to come from an

actual

scumbuddy. So many interactions on one scumbuddy may be possible. That many from both, when the slot already is a low-content one, I cannot see as being the case.

Nevertheless, it remains possible, however unlikely it may be.

If vezzy does not flip Marvel, Rach is my second or third choice

. It remains a concern of mine thanks to how little her slot has contributed this game, but ultimately, I think my fears unfounded, as my read on Rach is of a strong enough strength that I am willing to risk the game on her being town.

And I assure you, it would be precisely that: a risk. Even assuming just one Marvel scum, if it is not Vezzy, that would bring us down to four players alive, likely being Rach, Zexxy, Grinny, and vetty. (This is one reason I am concerned that our win is not as assured as people are assuming. With only eight players, in the

best

-case scenario, we have a mere two lynches to sort through all the players, when we need double that for an assured victory.)

In short, Rach is not someone who I objectively hold a strong townread on, but the subjective strength of my read on her slot is such that I feel it is worth risking her as confirmed town. Were she to be scum, it would be Marvel, but ultimately, I simply think it more likely she is sweet.

[Aunt Jemina]

Continuing down the line of Marvel candidates, next up we have Zexxy.
To once more state with clarity, I do not feel he is sour. I do not feel he is Marvel. I think him sweet. He is near the bottom of my sweet-reads (in fact, he

is

the bottom), but he is still present. You may be wondering how Zexxy could fall from my strongest sweet-read to my weakest sweet-read, and that will take some explaining. In part, it owes to Organic Chemistry. There, a very accurate comment was made about the difference between Zexxy's sour and sweet play: when sweet, he actually attempts to scumhunt, and when sour, it simply isn't there.

also was my performance in the game THAT bad?

ISO'd ZZZX on request. He's scum.

Sthar

this is nothing like his town play from what I remember. There's no scum hunting. He's not even trying.

Not to mention all the posts AP made prior to this one where he calls you out for it. I'm honestly surprised mollie went down before you did. You were obvscum. And then the dwindling spiral of doom that was your claim LOL... <3

I applied this thought here. Ultimately, I have found what I believe to be scumhunting, indicated in posts such as 518, but alarmingly, not nearly as much as I remembered. His posting does contain content, rather than mere commentary, and overall, I think it more town than scum. Yet there are things to be concerned about. In particular,

The core of it is that I play in a way that has no logical meaning while still hunting in the background for scum, Then leading the town for the win (If I ended up survivng night kill!, As it seems I die pretty early 70% of the time due to a kill... or a lynch (Check my completed games so far for more info).

Where is his attempt to lead the town for the win? Instead, he has displayed apathy similar to vezzy, when his description of his townplay is like the townplay I have actually observed from vezzy.

So any half assed scum would try to lessen contact to his scum partners or bus them.

Idk about you making me "scum partner" with every single person I town read. (Even thou I had not a single interaction with UFN that is worth mentioning.)

Ok now think again. I had no interactions with Metal Sonic's slot pre- Replace, And lets say we were scum. (Which again we are not.) The best course of action is lay low since we both did not get to discuss during pre-game since he replaced in.

This is another worrisome post, as Zexxy has effectively done the very thing he said would be good scum play: lessened contact with partners, and an eventual bus. This is, in fact, one of my main concerns when it comes to Zexxy. However, countering this are two strong town indicators: this post is clearly not thinking in multiball terms, and the bit about not having talk with a scumbuddy when scum had an encryptor is another large one.

Day 1 Votecount 14

Yates 8 - Squirrel Girl,Kid A, Aunt Jemina,Nero Cain,beastcharizard,UnfriendlyNeighbors,Metal Sonic, displaced,
The Ruffling 5 - pidgey,BulbaFenix,Chandra Nalaar,mozamis,vezokpiraka,
Josh_B 3 - ZZZX,Viomi,ThAdmiral
UnfriendlyNeighbors 2 - Josh_B,PeregrineV,
Mozamis 1 - UniversalSlutBus,
KidA 1 - Malakittens
Viomi 1 - The Rufflig
beastcharizard 1 - Umbrage

Not Voting

Yates
ArcAngel9

This was the last VC before the Rufflig wagon really took off. There has GOT to be bussing scum on his wagon here. Probably not pidgey or Bulba. So that leaves Chandra, moz, and vezok. Will be ISOing them today.

You could have been bussing but only time will tell about that eh.

Though this comment is directed towards Ragey, my concern is that it also applies to Zexxy. His join on the fliggy wagon was not foreshadowed. If you iso him for mentions of fliggy, there is a grand total of two worthy of note:

Can we fucking lynch Rufflig i bet my ass he is scum.

Can you calm down and see we are catching some interesting facts? No need to end the day until we get all info of this day

This one, where he defends fliggy by delaying the lynch on fliggy so that we can get all the information out of the day. (Note that

this is a contrast to his current attitude

, where Zexxy is wanting the day to end as quickly as it can, similar to vezzy.)

Out of the two wagons that are on atm I think the ruffing one is the best. But its sad the Josh_B Wagon is away.
VOTE: The Ruffing

The second mention is the switch onto fliggy at deadline, which is a time he would be inclined to bus during.

I can continue to show things here and there, however, simply put, my concern comes down to these factors:

• Zexxy has claimed he is a town leader, but is showing nothing but following.
  
• Zexxy has not done very much scumhunting this game.
  
• Zexxy has shown that he would in fact bus, and his vote on fliggy was done without foreshadowing.
  
• Zexxy showed interest in maximizing the amount of information to be gained in a day. However, now he is insisting to lynch me well before this has been achieved.

All these having been said, however, I do not believe him sour. This is largely based off of smaller actions he has done during the game, from his tone to the scumhunting that is present to his interactions with Squirly and his overall mindset not seeming to be the same.

That being said,

If vezzy is not Marvel scum, Zexxy is my top pick for it

.
Overall, I find him more sweet than not, especially given how sour I think vezzy to be. The indicators of his town game are present, albeit weakly so. If this game gets down to four players, he is who I would lynch. (Actually, with four players, I would no-lynch to see who the scum would kill. But were the scum not to kill, or after they had done so and there was a 3p lylo, it would be Zexxy I would choose to lynch.)

In short, I fear that he has been cleared somewhat-prematurely, in that his attitude is highly-reminiscent of his sour play (in that he is not very interested in moving the game forward, particularly in his attitude towards me), however, I would only lynch him after vezzy. Through a combination of the result and the sweeter aspects of his play, he is more likely sweet than sour to me.

He is my weakest sweet-read, but he remains a sweet-read all the same.

[Aunt Jemina]

Ok just seems a bit odd...
Well dang it I want to know who killed Cabd

I know most consider Rach town, to include myself at this point, but I have to say this looks scummy. Like the scum saying good job to the doctor.
Opinions?

AJ. I read your commentary, on Rach. I think the above post I reference seems forced and scummy. Its though to base a read of of that, but the posts that you pointed out from her predecessor makes me thinks there is a little more to go off of.

Perhaps you are correct, deary. This is the frustrating aspect about my Rach read, in fact. I am normally a strictly-logical player, at least under this name. When I present a read, it is typically well-reasoned and backed up. Objectively, there is rather a fair amount from Rach's slot that is in fact suspicious. This having been said, the read remains strong all the same. Aside from the result on Rach, I still maintain this old lady's instincts hold validity. It is something that I am fully aware requires trust in myself to be accurate, something that you will be less inclined towards should vezzy not flip what I predict. However, I cannot help what I feel, and this is a rather strong feeling. No matter how much circumstantial evidence may point in her direction, I simply cannot think of her as being scum.

As the designated mislynch for today, I must entertain the possibility, as you would do so were you to reach that 4p mylo. Yet no matter how many times I try to think of Rach as being suspicious, I cannot bear myself to do so. I am consistently coming up with her as being town, defying explanations. It is clearly not something I would define as 'gut', as no gut feeling should justify such a strong read. Yet for lack of a better term and unable to define what it is making me feel the way I do, I am forced to employ that terminology all the same.

She is a very strong gut read. It is in fact a risk, but I am willing to bet the game on her being town. (That being said, with luck, I am correct and vezzy is the last Marvel, rendering such discussions unnecessary.) Does this help clarify my feelings about her?

[Aunt Jemina]

Do me next.

If there was a need to, I would. Perhaps if you wish it that badly, I could sneak it in as a bonus, however, otherwise, it would be time wasted, as I fully believe you to be town 100%. Everyone else in the game, to my knowledge, shares this opinion and will continue to hold it after my demise and would still have it if vezzy flipped and the game did not end. Thus, if you were to somehow be scum, the game is already yours, as I would never lynch you. I consider you confirmed town as Kitty is.

[Aunt Jemina]

Vettock would be nice to go next. I would like others opinion on them.

Vetty will take a little while longer than normal. At the moment, I am focusing on Grinny, who will take much less time.

[Aunt Jemina]

Next on my list of priority reads is Grinny. I will start out by saying that while he is technically my second-weakest townread, I am of the opinion that he is sweet. Though it is not impossible for him to be Marvel (just as it is not impossible for vezzy to be DC), I find it incredibly likely that were he to be sour, DC is the far more likely of the two. In fact, he is my strongest candidate for DC scum, whereas he is either the third- or second-strongest candidate for Marvel scum aside from vezzy. This being said, though he is my best guess for DC scum, that does not mean I believe him sour. I firmly find him to be sweet.

This is not going to be as in-depth of a case as I would normally create, however, beyond the result from Vinny that strongly implies Grinny is sweet, and beyond the fact that he did not hammer me when he had the chance, and beyond the fact that he is apparently doing his own analysis right now, there is also the fact that Grinny's post count this game is amazingly high, exceeding even mine. For an understanding of why this impressive feat is unlikely to come from a sour Grinny, understand that Grinny has a strong tendency as a player (especially as scum) to lurk, and yet his post count this game clearly reflects a lack of having done so. He does have some fluff and some prod-dodges present, but he has not been consistently relying on them to skate by. He has been doing analysis throughout the whole game, delivering fairly-solid analysis the entire game.

Why, then, is he my second-weakest townread? This is more a statement about the strength of my townreads than it is on Grinny's part. However, there is cause to be concerned. These things may be indicative of alignment in single-faction, but in multiball, Grinny has shown these trends before. Though he died early, his post count was also abnormally high and his engagement unusually-invested in the game at the time of his demise. Grinny's earlier play additionally raised my eyebrow, even though his later content is sweeter. Additionally, though he has done analysis, as of late, it has not been making its way to the thread. He has done a couple of inquiries towards my own analysis, but not offered much of his own which he has been working on just as long as I have been working on mine. Yet I am posting results and he has not done so as of this time.

There is also the concern of Vinny faking a result on his buddy given their daytalk. His play during D2 felt particularly weak, and D1 was not much stronger. 2384, 2395, 2460, and 2467 also help to defend Vinny without directly defending him. 2477 is another potential indicator. A further one would be his overall lack of interactions with Ragey/Tussy, and in particular, minimal Nero interactions.

As for why Grinny is possible Marvel (albeit incredibly unlikely), I would like to point out this quote by fliggy:

Ok, 1 point for PeregrineV (who has a broken link in his sig) and 1 point for Squirrel Girl.

Given his play in this game, I can completely see fliggy mentioning both scumbuddies in his opening post. Furthermore, Grinny has a fairly strong defense of fliggy:

Why am I missing the whole Rufflig=scum thing? Did he slip and post his role PM or something?

There is also the factor that he was not present on the fliggy wagon, and in fact strongly opposed it. You may ask about what this means about Vinny's result; it is possible that Vinny simply faked it, as we know his faction had daychat and thus, his result was likely communicated to their QT. Ergo, there was no need to claim a truthful result. Vinny telling the truth is the most probable outcome, and Grinny being Vinny's scumbuddy is the next-most-likely, but it is also possible that

• Vinny received a VT result on Godfather-Grinny,
  
• Vinny lied about his result and Grinny simply rolled with it,
  
• Or Vinny actually rolecopped Grinny, got his full role PM, and indicated to Grinny that he knew his alignment.

However, I think you can tell by the nature of all three scenarios the improbability of this outcome, thus, why I do not think Grinny would be Marvel.

One last cause for concern that I have about Grinny is this quote:

If you are in fact, a hider who received an incorrect result from the mod, then I suggest you plead your case prior to your actual flip.

If you want to confess to being a specific scum, then give us all of your team's info, and that allows us to catch the other last scum, then our town history books will reflect that your scumteam came in Second Place, if that is any consolation.

It reads as being a sour player, believing myself to be the other sour player. (Loosely akin to Tussy's ranting about me, yet switching desperation for confidence.) This is of course far more likely from a surviving DC than a last-Marvel, but though this post is enough to raise my eyebrow in alarm, Grinny if he were sour would have had plenty of opportunities to end my life by now and has thusfar not done so. That he is giving me the time to express my thoughts (when said thoughts may cause danger to him if he were to remain at the bottom) is a very strong indicator that he is sweet, inverse to vezzy whose insistence on not letting me express my thoughts is reason alone to think vezzy sour.

I would additionally like to point out that his Vinny push was reasonably strong and well-backed when looking at it. His lack of Tussy interactions are fixed by the tail end of D2 and the beginning of D3. Though thinking (correctly) Nally had a guilty renders this less valuable, it still overall looks far more sweet than sour.

My overall conclusion, therefore, is as such:
Grinny is the reason that this game is not an assured win. If vezzy does not flip Marvel scum, then we have what I am considering an objective conflip between Grinny and Zexxy. (It is only subjectively that I select Zexxy as sour in that situation.) If vezzy flips Marvel scum, then Grinny I am thinking would be the last DC mafia, even though objectively it would be a conflip between him and vetty. Overall, however, I believe Grinny is sweet more than I believe him to be sour. Though there are quite a number of things not to like about his posting, there are plenty more that look town. If the game continues after a vezzy-Marvel flip, Grinny is sour. If vezzy is not Marvel, though, I am currently under the belief Grinny is sweet.

Thus, Grinny's alignment depends on vezzy's flip, and I cannot offer more than this on him without witnessing a vezzy flip. (And as the plan is to lynch me before vezzy, this is therefore rendered nearly-impossible for me to pull off.) Overall, I am predicting that Grinny is sweet, as two out of three probable scenarios I have foreseen have him as such. I wish that I could place more trust in this read, yet it is a read that relies largely on faith and circumstances. I do not think I can obtain a more accurate read today based off of what information I have available to me.

Second-weakest townread, third-most-likely Marvel, most-likely DC, yes. However, keep in mind that given only four players to be read (aside from vezzy, of course), that is also third-strongest townread. (Apologies, that took slightly longer than I was anticipating. Vetty will still take longer, though.)

[Aunt Jemina]

It should additionally be noted before I begin on vetty:
The worst-case scenario for this game is that we have two scum, and yet vezzy is not one of them. This would take us into either 4p or 3p, with one or both scum still living, in a situation where town cannot win without the crosskill. This is what would be the case if Grinny's DC and Zexxy's Marvel. Thus, we do not have a guaranteed win in that regard.
The second-worst possible scenario for this game is that we have one Marvel who is not vezzy, as that will leave what would be essentially a coinflip in lylo to find them. (I would place my vote on Zexxy given this scenario.) This is another case of a win not guaranteed.
The third-worst possible scenario for this game is that we have both a Marvel and a DC, with vezzy as the Marvel. By lynching him, we go into 4p mylo hunting for the last DC, and it is an objective coinflip between Grinny and vetty (as neither Zexxy nor Rach are possible DC thanks to the innocent results on them), with a subjective lean towards Grinny being sour.
The best-case scenario, of course, is simply that vezzy is the last Marvel scum and lynching him ends the game.

Now with that being said, I need to go on to demonstrate my read on vetty, who is up there with Rach in terms of sweetness in my reads. (This is the other major change in my reads, as he was right there at the bottom before. I would not say he and Zexxy flipped positions, but both shifted rather a fair amount.)

[Aunt Jemina]

I still don't trust PereV, I know I should but I don't.

I do understand the concern about Grinny, but that is why a lynch on vezzy is important, as it sheds light on Grinny's alignment. There is evidence that points in all three directions, and which is the truth I cannot fully discern without knowing vezzy's alignment for sure.

Given that I suspect vezzy is Marvel scum, the alignment of Grinny is likely either town or DC. If the game ends after vezzy's lynch, he is obviously sweet, and we win. If the game does not end, then he is almost-assuredly sour as a result. This does fall apart if vezzy does not flip as I anticipate he will, which is again one reason why I feel his flip is a necessity before Grinny can be processed.

[Aunt Jemina]

I go back and forth though on you I will admit. I just find having a tracker who cant track due to some ninja dude seems a bit over the top, and it seems to me with the amount of cop power that a ninja makes less sense than a GF. Also a tracker seems to be a bit overkill with the amount of cop power left.

Watcher, not tracker. However, again I must note that while you may think it an odd role, a Godfather immune to watchers and trackers is a role that jason has used before.
Observe the Doctor Who Order of the Timelords mafia quicktopic. Note these posts.

I can do [the kill] too, I'm immune to investigations and kill implications anyways

Also my PM says I'm immune investigations

and to actions that would implement me in the murder of someone

.
Pretty sure tracker is the latter.

Dramonic was not only immune to investigations, but also to trackers and by extent, watchers.

It is a highly-unusual role, but it should be noted this game definitely has at least some similarities to Dr. Who overall and thus, the role is not only possible, but also probable. The Daleks had a tracker; the DC scumteam (red scum) had a tracker.

[Aunt Jemina]

how do you explain the balance of having a tracker with so much cop muscle?
Especially with it being multiball?

I already explained my take on manners, deary. Our setup is neatly symmetrical: one dedicated investigation role (cop), one dedicated protection role (doctor), and two roles that can be used either way (hider and watcher). The hider was used more as an investigation this game; the watcher was used more as a protection this game. These four roles do not overpower the town, especially given one side has either a ninja or Godfather-ninja.

Yes

, the town is powerful, but so too are the scum. Daytalk in the right hands is a game-changer, able to create a lethally-efficient scumteam. (It is largely through the machinations of my neighborhood's daytalk that I won You Could Be Anyone mafia.) One scumteam has two investigative roles, which allows them to hone in on the town power roles. (In fact, given that Kotty got nightkilled, it is not only possible, but probable that the DC tracker managed to correctly track Kotty N3.) The other scumteam does not possess investigatives, but has plenty of interference power. A jailkeeper is able to shut down a town power role. A ninja (or Godfather-ninja) allows for the scumteam to evade capture.

It is not what you would anticipate in a setup if this were your first jason game. However, deary, you have been in at least one, so you should have some insight into jason's mind. I of course have bias towards this, but even without it, I could guarantee you that what I say is accurate, given my extensive experience with him. He is a clever moderator, but once you understand his "tricks", then nothing will surprise you. And I have figured out his.

That is really my biggest reason for being suspicious of you Auntie. You seem rather towny with the effort and the amount of help you have given us in the game, but I just have trouble wrapping around the possibility of yet 2 more scum left with all the flips we have had, and the idea of some super ninja and GF role in one player just seems too over the top.

The idea of a town watcher seeming over the top and the idea of a Ninja/Godfather in one being over the top are mutually exclusive, deary. A Godfather-ninja is a role that jason has used before, thus is not something I am making up; it serves to boost up the scumteam's power significantly, to the point where the concern about a watcher is nullified, as a godfather-ninja provides a counter to the watcher, but also provides protection from investigation, making it a role not specific to one town role. It is unusual. It is powerful. But it is what jason did, and may have done again.

As for two scum left, this is not necessarily the case. I have prepared for the possibility of two. It may or may not actually be true. But you were in Dr. Who. You saw the asymmetrical scumteams there. Thus you should know that this is another thing jason can do. That of course does not mean he did it this game, but it means he may have done so again. However, my overall policy is to be prepared for the worst, but to hope for the best.

[Aunt Jemina]

Aj you DO know I am basically clear if you are town?
Since I doubt there is a ninja godfather thing (i expect one of them and not the other?)

You

say

this.
And yet I

lived

in the game which proved this wrong.
If Doctor Who had gone differently and dramonic was not killed early, imagine how different that game would have been with a Godfather-ninja in it the entire time. The role's potential never saw light. Thus, the only players who truly knew of it were those on the scumteam. Grinny was there, so he should remember this rather clearly. The temptation as a moderator to reuse a role that did not see much usage is also incredibly great.

You doubt the existence of a ninja-godfather.
I cannot give that luxury.

also your reasoning isnt that great for your reads on me.

Which half, the town one or the scum one?

[Aunt Jemina]

I am ok with getting lynched today if I get written consent out of everyone alive except AJ that they will vote AJ in their first post.

I have been working under the assumption that I would be lynched today and you, near-instantly tomorrow. Were you to be lynched first and flip sweet, though, I would accept the consequences of my misread willingly and readily advocate my own lynch. (After giving an official update on my reads, and my result from night seven, of course.) Given the suspicion on me, I cannot be allowed to live until lylo.

[Aunt Jemina]

Hmm...it would appear that my vetty post got lost.
I was under the impression it (along with an announcement) was posted, but apparently, it was not. Thus, I will need to begin from scratch on my case there.

The announcement accompanying it was that, as a consequence of devoting so much time to this game, my state of affairs in my life has worsened and that I would need anywhere from 12-48 hours to recover.

This announcement, of course, was made between 12 and 24 hours ago (depending on the exact timing of the failed vetty case post), and thus, the current total I am saying is 12-36 hours, likely on the lower spectrum. (I am posting here right now, for instance.) Apologies for the inconvenience. I consider the vezzy case that I have posted to be the

most

important thing, so if deadline becomes a problem and I have yet to finish my work, then at least the largest aspect of it was completed. However, given that the deadline is in two days, I am anticipating finishing well before the deadline, as even in the worst case scenario, there would be 12 hours to spare.

At the moment, I do in fact need a brief moments' worth of rest. (A small nap no more than a couple hours, as our time frame is tight enough that I cannot afford a full night's sleep.) I have been awake since Sunday, and thus, have gone well beyond the healthy amount of time for a human body to be awake and my mind has begun to shut down. (There is only so much that a constant intake of caffeine will do, and only so many times tricks to keep yourself awake will work. This old lady has more experience than I would care to admit at practicing the art of staying awake beyond my natural state, but even I have my limits.)

Before I take a short intermission, I will in fact comment on the posting to have cropped up here. And know that even as I type this, I have restructured some of the vetty case from my memory, so it will take less time for me to complete the second time through. But this is all I can do without that brief break to recover my strength. (My stamina has been severely drained by my efforts. I may be very dangerous over short distances, but I am slightly wasted over extended time.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Anyway the most damning thing about aj is the way she knew titus wasn't the last marvel scum.

Funnily enough, this is something that I intend to bring up later, as one of the last things to do today after the vetty case is finished. Since you bring it up now, I will give you a very-quick cliffnotes version: I knew Tussy was scum because of Doctor Who mafia, not because of my own alignment. Observe: this is me claiming as the last member of my scum faction. I knew I was caught by a faction-specific guilty result, so I placed everything I had into telling the complete truth. I was honest the entire time. I shared my scumteam's thought processes, including our thoughts on the setup. I shared their actions. I even shared my fakeclaim for the game. I offered my services, and yet made it clear that I knew I would not be trusted...but I was desperate. I also did not want the Daleks to win, so I was being as helpful as I could be, as to let the town have as much information as possible. Furthermore, even after being outted, I did my best to continue scumhunting legitimately. This is how a scum player as the last member of their scumteam will act.

Now in contrast to that very real claim, let us take a look at Inny's claim: Subject: Dr Who: The Last Great Time War GAME OVER!!

Sorry DV, you dug your own grave. Was willing to let you live one day longer, but if I am going down, the SK is coming with me...
Congrats town, you caught a scum:

Claim: Dalek Caan
Role: Cult of Skaro Goon

Here is my evidence against DV, the likely bulletproof SK.

N1, we debated about killing ACFan. We hesitated because we all felt there was a doctor, or at least watcher. So we went with Gut per Vi's suggestion.

N2, after the scum watcher was dead and confirmed nobody (including a doctor) targeted ACFan, we took our shot at him and successfully got rid of that thorn in our side (two lynches a day was too much). It didn't hurt that ACFan finished with his vote on me.

N3, we still had concerns about a doctor, so instead of wasting a shot on a cop, we thought we take out one of his investigation targets who could also be a doctor.

WE TARGETED DV WITH THE NK

, a thorn in my side, and somehow he didn't die. The chances of a doc protecting him were nil to none. Only explanation left is he must be bulletproof, which to me sounds like the SK (with so many killing methods out there anyway, that helps their chances of winning the game).

N4, we obv lucked into displaced. Since it wasn't me that figured displaced was the likely doctor, I am refusing to explain how until postgame for fear of possibly giving clues back to a teammate.

N5, with the doc gone and SJ never investigating me, it was a no-brainer.

So yeah, by D5, with us no longer needing the SK's help to kill a possible doc,

I figured I'd start my breadcrumbs

:

Post 4728 - ***I find it comical how DV says he isn't SK because he wouldn't be scared of Dram....who would?!?!? Truth be told, nobody as yet has given me a reason he died other than mine which is it was to set up Rubicon. Willing to bet a month of time on mafiascum DV is the SK. Or maybe the Godfather. He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, which if you go back to the beginning, was a really lame reason for suspecting me. Couldn't even answer why he found me scummy when I recently asked him. Just remember this after I flip town.

Post 5005 - Please all don't forget this after I flip, the last time DV voted someone not named IAI was D2. DAY TWO! He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, and when I asked him why I have been his top target since D2, all he can say is I am less townie than everyone else. Pretty weak suspicion considering the many days of tunneling. I've played that angle as scum too, pick a unique target for scum who isn't going to be lynched or isn't loud/outspoken, and ride (and hide behind) that suspicion for days on end.

Pretty sure he is an SK/GF. Unfortunately, I agree with Oversoul that we need to focus on the list of not investigated***, so I understand DV not getting pressure right now. But please don't forget this guy before endgame.

Post 5194 - (I really don't care about your answer, because I'm pretty sure your a bad guy, most likely the SK. Don't worry, I will ensure my death exposes you.)

Post 5195 - PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

You may think this is legitimate. However, if you read how the night actions for the game

actually

went and/or the thoughts of the scumteam in their quicktopic for that game, you would observe that this post is Inny lying through his teeth. He knew fully good and well that Veily was not a serial killer. He knew that Veily was sweet, and yet he pinned Veily as the serial killer anyway. Why? Because

it helped to out the real serial killer

, and was done to get a free mislynch after his impending demise.

Now tell me, compare those to this game:

I am Lady Deathstrike, Marvel Universe Villian Alliance Rolecop. I'm the last member of the Marvel Villains team. It's been a decent run but I am basically outed scum at this point.

So I've got a question for you, leash or lynch?

Inform me of which claim Tussy's looks closer to, especially given her follow-through posting. Tussy's posting was almost exactly the same as Inny's posting was, and

nothing

like my own postng was as last scum. Combine that with the case on her, and it was fairly obvious. Tussy would never have claimed in that manner were she

actually

Marvel scum. Her post could only come from DC scum gambitting, and this was transparent the whole time the gambit was done.

I fudging

DARE

you to tell me I am wrong on this, that when reading my outting and Inny's outting and comparing them to Tussy's, you think that Tussy's is not significantly closer to Inny's. Because I could see it instantly. I realize this may seem like something many players would not have concluded instantly, but you have to understand that AS the player who outted herself as scum, I know what a player outting themselves as scum ought to be doing if they are the last member of their faction, and Tussy was falling short on multiple levels.

Don't think Vezok is scum, pretty sure ZZZX is not, new guy is super replacement dude (who replaced JoshB). In the end, down for an Aunt J lynch, if that's the way we are goingto go. If not, Squirrel Girl iso perusal indicates that most likely vettrock is last Marvel scum.
Feel free to argue why this is or is not so.

Fully intend to. However, I must ask about your reasoning on vezzy not being sour and your commentary on Zexxy and thinking vetty to be the last Marvel, especially given my thoughts on them. (Aside from my thoughts on vetty, that I apparently failed to post and am working on posting again.)

[Aunt Jemina]

Day 7 vote count 6

Aunt J 3 - vezokpiraka,ZZZX
vezokpiraka 1 - Aunt J
vettrock 1 - PeregrineV

Not voting

vettrock
Malakittens,
RachMarie
beastcharizard

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch

(expired on 2014-08-15 12:13:46)

till Day 7 Deadline

Hmm...we have one day until deadline.

Dearies, may I propose an idea? This will be a controversial stance, I am sure, but are you willing to entertain the idea of a no-lynch?

My logic is simple enough: we are on even numbers. Assuming a lynch on town two days in a row (meaning we do not end the game before then by lynching scum), you would end up in mylo and likely end up no-lynching then anyways to get a 3p lylo. All no-lynching today would therefore do is move that action up.

You may feel that this accomplishes little, however, I can think of some benefits.

1. The aforementioned fact that we would do it eventually anyway means that we will lose literally nothing by letting it happen.
   
2. However remote the possibility may be, it would theoretically give another night for my power to be of use, at no consequence. (See above.)
   
3. It would give us another two weeks to sort things out on Day 8, without the imminent deadline.
   
4. It will help us avoid the deadline rush.
   
5. It would relieve the stress I am undergoing, making my analysis be less rushed.
   
6. As a final benefit, it may allow those who are currently disheartened to get reinvigorated overnight.

Do you think this idea has merit? Because if not, then we will need to get a rush to a lynch, and I will need to rush my analysis if you decide on lynching me. I would love to hear your opinions on my proposal.

[Aunt Jemina]

The three nightkills will be mala, pere and rach most probably.
Any other kill just removes mislynch fodder.

And seeing who dies can give us an insight into the nightkiller. For instance, while I do in fact have three players who I think would be nightkilled, they are

not

identical to your own. (I am uncertain if it would be a good idea or not to state my own list, though I feel it not too difficult to figure out.) The differences in the lists and the orders therein are valuable to learn. It may give us a critical clue.

You are quite correct: in the worst-case scenario, it gives us nothing we did not already know. However, we literally lose absolutely nothing from it.

In the best-case scenario, the nightkill will give us a vital fact about the killer that the killer did not think to be important. Thus, taking us one very important step closer to identifying them. Furthermore, it grants us additional time to do analysis, and may motivate those who are not currently motivated into actually doing work this game.

Nothing to lose, potentially a great deal to gain, at absolute worst simply not giving us anything except an extended timeframe.

[Aunt Jemina]

If we get enough votes that we can hammer I will switch because I do prefer a lynch over no lynch but I do not see that happening we have people who want lynch you, people who want to lynch her, and people who want to lynch vez we are awfully scattered for so close to the deadline.

My point precisely.

VOTE: No Lynch.

[Aunt Jemina]

Omfg. A dead person is not gaining something. It is losing a vote and a voice.

Yes, deary.
This happens when the night phase occurs.
This would happen even if we had a lynch. (Unless you're the last Marvel scum and lynching you ends the game. )

The difference being that with the nightkill, we may be able to make a more informed lynching choice, whereas without it, we clearly have not been able to.

[Aunt Jemina]

AJ did you watch anything and get any report?

Quite obviously, I targeted Kitty, as I fully expected her to die as our confirmed town, and not Rach. I did not see anyone visiting her.

Rach's death, however, all-but confirms that what we are dealing with is a Godfather-ninja. You may think it an unusual role, yes, but you cannot deny the fact that I am a watcher (I have shown my breadcrumbs but I have far more to show you if you do not believe me) nor can you deny the fact that the Cop plus the Deputy means there is a Godfather (by your own words, this would be overpowered), nor are my results disputable. (I cannot simultaneously be a Watcher and a Godfather. For me to be sour requires the belief that I am a Godfather who planned to fakeclaim watcher from the onset of the game, a trait which violates my modus operandi as scum.)

Something else to ponder...Why were there no "destroyed" before the DC and serial killer were killed. Did Marvel scum not kill until recently?

The far more probable answer is that the Marvel scum ran afoul of BulbyFenny's role, Kotty's doctor protections, or most likely, a combination of both. The "destroyed" flavor did not show up for four nights, but it is not too implausible that two of such nights were thanks to BulbyFenny and two additional nights thanks to Kotty. Short of fearing a PGO or bomb, there is no reason for a Godfather-ninja to fear killing.

[Aunt Jemina]

I should additionally note that with this death, we should be making the most of the time we have. The death was not what most of us expected, am I correct?

With this in mind, then, it becomes a question of

why

the death is not what most of us expected. Speculating on nightkill analysis may not in fact lead to any definitive conclusions, but it may give us some ideas as to where we go next.

Though I will obviously be here providing my input, giving my own thoughts and answering any questions you may have about my stances, I will also be continuing what I began but did not finish yesterday. It is not exactly going to be "from where I left off", as I need to investigate the flip and what it may mean. But for the time being, assume my thoughts have not changed until I tell you they have.

With that in mind, I am throwing out this as a preliminary vote while I continue my research:
VOTE: vezokpiraka.

[Aunt Jemina]

You are voting the wrong v named person.
VOTE: Vettock

I maintain that vetty is more likely sweet than sour off of what I am seeing.

This seems to indicate that Rach investigated Pere and found him clean, as well as crumbing deputy cop.

Pere is ok

I had my concerns about him early on, but then I really looked at him closer,

and realized I was letting another game (which of course has since ended), bias me in this game. Normally that would not happen as much, but one of the reasons I cut down on games and have been V/LA a lot is the whole diabetes thingy and the mess with probate and worrying about bills getting paid has really messed with my head a LOT.

I would be more concerned with you if you did not have doubts about me Auntie, especially with me not playing my best. But rest assured that I am just as much town as Chandra was. And I stand by his results and believe them, the fake clamming as only one side bothered me at first, but he did finally claim FULL cop, and he flipped FULL cop.

So yes I will follow in his footsteps.

I go back and forth though on you I will admit. I just find having a tracker who cant track due to some ninja dude seems a bit over the top, and it seems to me with the amount of cop power that a ninja makes less sense than a GF. Also a tracker seems to be a bit overkill with the amount of cop power left.

Yeah I think pere is town so claim is probably true, I do not remember seeing pere do fake claim bs as town.

This is a fine catch, however, it regrettably means very little given the near-certainty of a Godfather-ninja. That having been said, I hold extreme doubt that Grinny would be sour anyway, given his play thusfar, the evidence supporting that he is sweet, and his overall play.

Speaking of which, I believe we can help strengthen this townread if we can get an answer to this question:

Mod: If a rolecop rolecops a Godfather, what result is returned to the rolecop?

I am of the opinion Grinny is sweet, but the more assured I can be of that, the more easily I can rest should that be the decision of the rest of the town.

vote aj

Let's end this ffs.

I realize that most players are unlikely to have done reading on my case overnight in the chance that the results of the night would render the time unnecessary, however, there was plenty of time and should be plenty more additional time for reviewing of it, and why vezzy's continued insistence on upholding this attitude is why I think him to be sour.

Let us consider for a moment the players that are realistic lynch candidates for today: vetty, vezzy, and myself. Let us then look at how they have been throughout the game. I have not fully done my research and thus have not fully compiled a vetty case, but throughout the game, Joshy showed clear effort towards figuring things out. Vetty since his entrance has done nothing but analysis and tried to get up to speed and make the most of it. These factors alone would make me doubt him being sour.

Though the full list of reasons why I am town is of low enough priority that I doubt I will even make the full case, I believe my effort to figure out the gamestate is self-evident. In fact, I think I have poured an unhealthily large amount of my time into solving the puzzle for this game. Furthermore, this has been an effort that has been a constant throughout the game. If you think my strong stubbornness on D2 and then my incredible humbleness on D3 is something I am capable of faking as scum, then I know not what to tell you as those emotions are rather visible and rather clearly not an act. And since D3, my reads have been honing in. I drove the lynch through on Tussy. I was a major player in the mozzy lynch. Nero got modkilled before I got the chance to drive his lynch through, but I guarantee you, he most assuredly would have been the lynch for D5 anyway. I objected to the lynching of ceddy, as I strongly believed him to be sweet.

These contributions and continued efforts to find the last scum (including now, when I am telling you it is not vetty and IS vezzy) are rather highly visible, so you cannot pretend that my effort does not exist.

...And then in contrast to me, and in contrast to vetty, we have...vezzy, here. Who just says the same phrase over and over again. "Let's end this". He has placed no effort into scumhunting. He has given no reasoning. He has given no alternative to me for when I will flip town. And if you think that to be a part of his personality, it is demonstrably not, as the meta sections of my case against him showed. (If need be, I can highlight the relevant areas.)

This is why vezzy is my top choice for being sour, dearies.

[Aunt Jemina]

In addition to that, let us look at the main pieces of evidence in defense of the candidates being sweet.
When it comes to vetty, it is not only his play, but also Joshy's lack of familiarity with site culture at the beginning of the game, something rather difficult to fake.
When it comes to myself, it is admittedly mainly off of my play, in my actions, why I did them, and what they mean. (I should point out that I had the trust of the confirmed town at the time of most of their deaths. BulbyFenny trusted me when they died. Nally trusted me when Nally died. Cabby at least preferred not lynching me when I was a candidate, and Rach while not certain of me being sweet was clearly leaning that way more than she was not. I can pull up quotes demonstrating all of these if you do not take my word for it.)

When it comes to vezzy, the strongest reason I have seen presented for him to not be sour is interactions, when interactions are something that are unique to every scumteam in every game. Though there are obviously trends that happen more often than others, interactions are not solid evidence by themselves, as we lack a critical factor: insight into the minds of the scum players making said interactions. We do not know what they were thinking. We can guess, but we do not know, and pretending we do is a mistake. I also showed in my case why I feel his interactions make him sour rather than sweet, presenting a counter-opinion to this defense of his alignment.

[Aunt Jemina]

the no lynch is what mafia wanted us to do FFS

Vote AJ

Stop being fucking dumb and wasting time. Not getting lynched as town hurted us since if you were town you will be lynched anyway and thus you wasted one mislynch we can use with a no kill..

I should note however that if we have two mafia or if I am somehow wrong on vezzy (but I really, really do not think I am), that Zexxy's attitude here is along the same lines as vezzy's, and is itself rather suspicious. He is my top pick for scum outside of vezzy, in no small part thanks to continued requests of mine being ignored in favor of a similar "just end it" mentality.

I have asked about his reasoning for suspecting me. When inquiring about what reason that is, I never received confirmation. I addressed his alleged concern to the best of my ability, and never received acknowledgement. When I raised concerns about him, he said they were full of holes, and yet when I inquired as to what parts and why, he gave no reply. (However, this last one may be in part due to V/LA. Though that is no excuse for the others.)


As to address the reasoning you are using, deary, I realize you are new to the site, thus are unfamiliar with mafia theory, but know that I did not in fact waste a lynch. We had eight players alive. If we lynched, we would have six players alive. If we lynched again, we would have four players alive. The most likely play in this 4p mylo is to no-lynch, and force the scum to nightkill us into a 3p lylo. This is widely-established mafia theory that has been known since the elder days of mafia on this site. You can ask any player here about the validity of my statements, and your response will be a universal agreement with what I have said. That owes in large part to the math behind mafia. I am not the best at describing this sort of mafia theory, but I can attempt some explanation if you do not understand it.

The simple version is that when the town is on even numbers, no-lynching costs them nothing; it is only no-lynching on odd numbers that will result in a lost town lynch. As we no-lynched on even numbers, we lost nothing from it.


And it should be noted that I was right to have advocated a no-lynch. Let us say that the scum killed Kitty as we had predicted. Then, Rach would be alive with another result, perhaps a game-breaking one (e.g. an innocent on me), and thus, we would make a much more informed lynching decision. By not lynching, we allowed her a chance to get a result for free, at no cost to us. Regrettably, she met her demise and thus, we did not gain her result,

however

, her death has proven to still be beneficial, as it has given more credence to the idea Grinny is sweet, evidence that would not have existed in the same manner were you to have rushed into a lynch yesterday. (You have an extra voice to chime in. Vetty found the 'crumb, and I am giving my input on it. If we lynched vetty, the 'crumb would not have been noticed, as I certainly didn't see her hint. If we lynched me, then while vetty would have found it, he wouldn't have me backing him up with this more extensive analysis.)

Thus, my choice to no-lynch yesterday was not only the correct one by theory, but additionally proven by actual circumstances.

[Aunt Jemina]

All you did in the last few days was just pushing the lynch away from you. It was in no sense scumhunting. You made cases to try to paint me as scum.

On the contrary, I have made no effort to push the lynch away from myself. You will find rather a number of posts where I may let my ego in a little bit and smugly proclaim "by the way, if you were actually thinking, you'd realize this makes me town". To that, I have no shame in proudly admitting I have done. You will also find a number which declare that I believe lynching me before you is objectively a mistake. If you consider this to be a push rather than a statement of my stance (as above, my belief that it is a mistake stems from my thoughts about my play and knowing they come from town), then you may have an argument, but they clearly were not presented as such. Perhaps you'll insist that my lamenting that I won't be able to analyze Grinny until after your death is an appeal to live, and yet it was rather explicitly simply a regret of mine about my analysis, but one which has been rendered obsolete by having Rach's flip instill in me an increased confidence.

Not once have I ever pushed the lynch away from me. My stance on this has been consistent throughout the entire time the idea has existed: it is a mistake. It is sub-optimal in my opinion. It will regrettably prevent me from offering my services to the town until the very end via the lynching of the last scum. But it is not something we cannot recover from. It is not something that will end the game for the town. Even assuming two scum left, we possess a single mislynch, and I can be it. I can take the fall. I would of course prefer we actually lynch scum, and I know myself to not be sour, thus ensuring we will not and that the game will be prolonged as a result. But I am willing to accept the lynch, so long as the most possible is made of it.

Those have been my words, and my actions have backed it up. I have not tried fighting the lynch, but have fought (at least partially successively) in order to motivate the town. I have been giving my words for posterity and leaving a legacy of my insight, giving in-depth analysis of what I think is happening, and if it's revealed I'm wrong, what would be happening instead. I have done nothing but continually give new thoughts as new ideas arise, and as I did research, there are marked changes in my stances. (I can point out these shifts, and not only the shifts, but the core reasoning contributing to said shift.) Simply put, no player has done more scumhunting than I have, and it is done with no end goal in sight.

This is in stark contrast to your posting, which is to lynch me as rapidly as possible as to prevent me from becoming credible.

The moment I'm lynched you'll go after vetrock and then do something in lylo.

Quite the opposite, I am defending vetty from the lynch, as I do not understand the logic behind voting him and have some of my own that points rather strongly in the other direction. Vetty in fact feels like a repeat of ceddy, in that he is my strongest townread behind the confirmed town (which I consider to be Kitty and Beasty).

In fact, at this moment in time (this of course could change with more in-depth research), I'd be more inclined to lynch Grinny than I would be vetty, and yet you just heard me give an extensive defense of Grinny which demonstrates why I feel him to be sweet. My vetty townread is simply that strong. (As an aside, this is just a single example which demonstrates why I am not in fact trying to avert my own lynch, as stating a strong townread and urging players not to lynch said townread is something that I am often prone to doing when sweet. Never once have I done it as a sour player, for that violates my beliefs in giving the town the minimal amount of possible information.)

[Aunt Jemina]

And I was right. She didn't even got to lynch me and is already chaining up zzzx

You can claim no credit for what has been shown explicitly in my posts for days. My read on Zexxy has wavered as the game has progressed, with my overall thought consistent. If there is only one scum left in the game, I feel he would be sweet and you, sour. If there are two or you somehow flipped sweet, then he would be my one and only choice for being sour at this stage.

This is of course a minor exaggeration. However, Kitty is confirmed town. I consider Beasty to be confirmed town as well. Grinny has a

lot

going for him being sweet as well, and yet even stronger still is my townread of vetty. (If for no other reason, this old lady's instincts. However, I have far more than just my gut backing me up, here.)

If it is not you, or if there are two, Zexxy is literally the only other person that I can see myself voting at this point to lynch, and thus, the only player I can see myself advocating the lynching of aside from you. It is admittedly a bit of a risk if I am to be lynched. Were that to happen, then we would only have two lynches for potentially two scum. And if my analysis is wrong, if I made a miscalculation in defending either vetty or Grinny, then the responsibility of the loss lies on my shoulders. But it is a risk that I am willing to take.

I am continuing my research to be sure. But this is my belief.

[Aunt Jemina]

You asked for more time. That is pushing the lynch away. You managed to get a no lynch.

Asking for more time is not pushing the lynch away. It is requesting it to be delayed, and that is precisely what ended up happening. The no-lynch was a spontaneous idea I had near the end of D7 that I felt would grant everyone the time and perhaps motivation they would need, myself included, and could potentially be informative. As Rach's flip has shown, the no-lynch most assuredly was in fact informative.

Thus, I made the right call by having asked for it. It allowed me to get most of my work done and the opportunity to finish my analysis today, and gave everyone a new piece of information they did not possess before which increases their motivation to work on puzzle-solving. What I did was immensely pro-town with absolutely no selfishness involved, as there was no cost to my request and yet we received a reward. (We potentially may have received even more of one had Rach not died.)

[Aunt Jemina]

The three nightkills will be mala, pere and rach most probably.

This in particular implies that vezzy was quite likely to have been aware of Rach's result. Why? Hider-confirmed town, town backup who had breadcrumbed her role, and her breadcrumbed result.

If Rach were included off of purely the cop result, then Zexxy would have been in his list as well.
Zexxy was not.
Thus, Rach had other reasons to be present.

It is not condemning, but it is highly eyebrow-raising.

For a comparison, my own list did in fact include Rach, in part thanks to the cop result, but largely in part thanks to this old lady's instinct and the little pieces of logic that I presented backing it up. I was entirely unaware of her result. My third name (as Kitty was obviously my top pick for death last night) was Beasty, as he is more confirmed town than the cop clears are to me and to many others. In fact, it never entered my mind to watch Rach for a nightkill as I was reasonably certain that even if Kitty weren't to be killed, the alternative choice would have been Beasty. Zexxy was not included as I had suspicion on him, and Grinny not included for similar reasoning. These should be rather evident by my posting throughout the day, whereas vezzy's is rather out of the blue.

[Aunt Jemina]

Mod: If a rolecop rolecops a Godfather, what result is returned to the rolecop?

If the godfather has fake-claim, any hypothetical rolecop would get their fake claim. If fake claims have not been provided they would get a VT result.

Not the result I wanted to see.

Regrettably, this means that Grinny being a godfather is not ruled out. (Did not I say that jason overpowers his godfathers? This is proof of such. Jason treats investigation immunity as being truly immune to any investigation. It does help demonstrate that I am not exaggerating jason's viability in making a Godfather also be a ninja.)

i'm either killed because I'm defending scum; or scum want to WIFOM me and think I'm doing the first so it's easier to lynch the said person.

It is worth exploring these, but also of note is the possibility that the scum picked up on Rach's comment. Vezzy has shown very strongly the potential to have done so. It is also possible that Rach was killed for defending town that you were not defending. Or it could be thanks to her suspicions. This post in particular seems important:

Vez how are you so sure I am not mislynch fodder? There is enough doubt out there and I get mislynched a LOT in games. Though of course I was cop cleared, but still people are suspicious of me. Understandably so with so much cop power I think there is likely a GF.
Still go back and forth on Auntie. Sigh I could see a case for her both being town and scum.

Though she wavers on me both ways, the main focus of this post is on vezzy, and suspicious of him having cleared her. (It should be noted that she ultimately spared my life by advocating the no-lynch as well. That means she placed enough confidence in me as to not lynch me. Her last post giving thoughts was 4022, where she expresses thoughts of me being town by play and only doubting it because of the strength that a Godfather-ninja would be.)

Ultimately, when you look at yesterday, for the vast majority of the phase, deary, you were voting me. Rach was not voting me and was thinking I could be sweet. You were doubting of Grinny, too, whereas she was certain he was sweet. You showed potential interest in vetty suspicion (4039), whereas Rach showed no such interest.

So in addition to the chance that scum caught Rach's crumb (and the most likely person, as Rach herself expressed before her demise, was vezzy), there is the probability that Rach was killed for not allowing the Grinny lynch to be possible (whereas you would allow it), not showing interest in a vetty lynch (whereas you may have it), for having strongly-positive overall thoughts on me (whereas your thoughts were only slightly positive), and overall for putting effort into figuring out who could be scum (whereas you had given up on having done so yesterday).

These do not firmly point towards vezzy, but the circumstantial evidence does vaguely suggest as such.

Also unless the ninja is x-shot.

A godfather immune to tracks/watches is infinitely more likely than a ninja at this point, but were it to be a ninja, then this would of course be possible. However, if so, the only possible candidates would be vezzy and vetty, as everyone else is effectively confirmed town.

I'll keep reading your psots, but without a smoking gun and magic bullet, I'm not voting Vezzok today.

Then it would appear we are at an impasse, here. As I cannot eat brains (that honor is Nati's), I do not think we can compromise. I have shown extensively why I feel vezzy is sour.

Why

do you think he is not? Can you tell me with a straight face that this is the same vezzy you squared off against in Organic Chemistry?

I'm kinda tempted to lynch vettrock just causr of how dumb he played since he replaced in. If you are town vett you really meed to step up your game man.

Hmmm...

You made cases to try to paint me as scum. The moment I'm lynched you'll go after vetrock and then do something in lylo.

I find this hardly coincidental.

Grinny, really and truly, how can you think this is the same vezzy you have seen in your games before? I can tell you with certainty it is not.

[Aunt Jemina]

EBWOP:

Grinny is sadly not ruled out from being sour, but as your daily reminder, I feel he is not.

[Aunt Jemina]

Pere is ok
I had my concerns about him early on, but then I really looked at him closer, and realized I was letting another game (which of course has since ended), bias me in this game. But rest assured that I am just as much town as Chandra was. And I stand by his results and believe them, the fake clamming as only one side bothered me at first, but he did finally claim FULL cop, and he flipped FULL cop. So yes I will follow in his footsteps.

Let us look at the posts following this.

Aj you DO know I am basically clear if you are town?
Since I doubt there is a ninja godfather thing (i expect one of them and not the other?)

With 2 trackers I can see a ninja in existance in some balance way but I feel one of the teams would be a little too strong possibly. But a Ninja godfather IS an overkill.

Zexxy's response was to mirror (not quite parrot, not quite sheep, but some scummy hybridization of the two) her. (There is a reason that if vezzy were to somehow be town, I am near-positive it would be Zexxy sour in his stead.)

Rach I don't have a read on (but haven't tried real hard- don't remember why not)

Grinny's read on her was neutral, clearly not having picked up on it.

I'm suspcious of Vezo, Rach, and then Pere. Mala and beast seem pretty town to me. ZZZX is in the middle

vetty clearly did not pick up on it, as he had not only Grinny, but also Rach in his list of suspicions.

• However remote the possibility may be, it would theoretically give another night for my power to be of use, at no consequence. (See above.)

I clearly was not thinking that Rach had a role she could use, because if I did, then I would have proposed the idea of a no-lynch much earlier and not make this point or if using it, make it more generic. The other proof of my lack of knowledge of course being that I did not watch her last night.

The three nightkills will be mala, pere and rach most probably.
Any other kill just removes mislynch fodder.

And yet, here vezzy has both Rach and Grinny as unlynchable. Why them along-side Kitty, again I ask. There is no logic behind it. It's as if he picked up on it and slipped up.

Which I would like to point out to you, Rach herself saw:

Vez how are you so sure I am not mislynch fodder? There is enough doubt out there and I get mislynched a LOT in games. Though of course I was cop cleared, but still people are suspicious of me. Understandably so with so much cop power I think there is likely a GF.

So to recap: I clearly was unaware. Grinny also was clearly not paying attention. Vetty certainly did not catch it. (I truly do not understand your desire to lynch him.) Zexxy mirrored her. And vezzy townread both her and Grinny above all except Kitty. That cannot be coincidental. He must have seen it. And yet, today he has not claimed to have seen it at the time. He did not acknowledge her on the day, either, by giving a generic hint that said "I figured out what you are, ya dummy" as subtly as possible while conveying the message. He did not show any admittance of having known, and yet his posts clearly show signs that he did in fact know.

[Aunt Jemina]

And in case you were wondering...

Vez how are you so sure I am not mislynch fodder?

Rach asks the vital question. vezzy, if sweet and yet having picked up on the hint, would have the chance to comment on it here:

Omfg. A dead person is not gaining something. It is losing a vote and a voice.
Someome hammer aj please. Also no lynch is at l-1

This is about as far away from acknowledging Rach as can be. In fact, it is in entirely ignoring her post altogether. If vezzy were sweet, he would address Rach in some manner here to place her doubts to rest.

As I firmly believe him to be sour, I posture that he ignored her rather reasonable question simply because he planned on nightkilling her.

[Aunt Jemina]

The No Lynch didn't get us anywhere other than Rach killed. The Rach kill did provide us with some info, as I had no idea she was a cop, or about her crumbs.

Deary, these statements are a direct contradiction of one another. Again, this is simple game theory. By numbers, with an even number of players alive, eventually you are going to need a no-lynch. Thus, no-lynching cost us nothing. Let us compare:
The actual scenario that happened was a no-lynch, with Rach's death.
This means we make a more informed lynch today.
If necessary, this means we make a more informed lynch the next day.
And if necessary, this means we make a more informed lynch the day after that.

Now in contrast, let us look at the counterpart:
We make a blind lynch at 8 players alive.
Rach dies.
We have 6 players alive instead of 7 with the information of Rach's death. (This is sub-optimal, as that is a lost voice to give input. Particularly since the most likely candidates would be you and I, and we two are some of the only ones who have given said input ON her death.)
The lynch is more informative than it would be, but less informative than it could be.
With four players alive, we then no-lynch.
Then in lylo, we have virtually no information to make an informed lynch.

Tell me my logic is wrong and if so, where. Because I know a thing or two about mafia theory, deary, and I know that my decision was the correct one--not only in principle, but also in execution for this specific game. I am rather certain that my logic holds. No-lynching yesterday was the strategically best move for the town, particularly given the division we had. We lost nothing. We gained plenty. In the latter scenario, each lynch is broken and disjointed from the previous one, lacking cohesion. This is what you would have had us do. In the former scenario which we have now locked ourselves into, each lynch builds off of the previous lynch, gaining momentum and evidence as we progress.

I am just standing here.. well ill post more in 3 days
but anyway this game is so pointless I am not even caring to read anymore.

And you dearies wonder why I think Zexxy may be sour, if there are two scum or if vezzy is somehow sweet.

If I see another aj post and no hammer when I get back home I will replace out.

If you don't mean it, I am calling your bluff for what it is: an intimidation tactic, as you lack the ability to get a lynch on me by any reasonable method.

If you're actually serious, then I am calling you out, for this post is a despicable one your alignment regardless. This is obviously in the realm of moderator ruling, and thus my opinion is not the important one, but were I a moderator, I would give you at least a warning if not a forced ejection from the game for this post, as it violates the universal rule of not bringing outside influences into the game. By threatening to replace out if you do not have your way, you are doing precisely that.