Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Akane Kurashiki]

You have to use vote tags, Parama. Like this:

VOTE: Bins

I'm under the opinion that we should probably save the doors for when we're reasonably sure a certain combination of people getting private chat will be fruitful, mostly because we're locked out of that door forever afterward. It would suck on day 3-4 when things are generally more figured out to really want a certain group of people to go through, but they can't because their digital root is something we locked ourselves out of on night 1.

Following that same line of logic, it might be good to figure out ahead of time what groups of people will be locked out of a door in the future if a group we want to send through is actually sent. It just makes sense to me to try to get as much useful as possible out of the mechanic, but if anyone has other ideas they should speak up.

[Akane Kurashiki]

You still can...?

But why would you want to be in a room with someone you're voting for?

[Akane Kurashiki]

You two know each other?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Fair enough, bins.

VOTE: Flames

hi

[Akane Kurashiki]

I figured the way Bins reacted to my questions was good enough for a page 1 unvote. I would have left it on if I'd sensed nervousness, especially coming from a newer player.

And actually, Reck has a point... forgot that smaller game = less time to reach lylo. I still think we shouldn't hammer in doors until we've had some time to discuss who is town and scum, at the very least. No one's probably gonna want to talk much if they get stuck in a room with someone they're sure is scum, etc.

There's definitely a way to milk this mechanic for all it's worth, it's just a question of finding the balance between getting max information possible beforehand but also not waiting too long.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I have a question for everyone: How should we group people into doors? Randomly, or not randomly?

No offense, but that's kind of a stupid question.

We basically have the ability to make our own neighborhoods, with the additional advantage of being able to choose (to some degree) who is in our neighborhood. Why

wouldn't

we take advantage of that? If they were going to be random they might as well have been mod-assigned for all the good it would do us.

I see literally no benefit to randomizing the groups.

[Akane Kurashiki]

"50+ posts prior which included a lot of theory babble that had largely been resolved.

Oh come on. It's totally possible to glean useful things from "theory babble," so don't just dismiss it. You can get reads based on how someone entirely posts about theory, or actually puts new ideas out and then some other good non-theory content, etc.

For instance, ThirtyFour has caught my eye for reasons that started with a theory post. Namely, his post 23 (where he basically just restates theory things that have already been said -- good way to appear helpful and active without actually sticking your neck out or doing anything useful) and parts of 61. The unvote also rubs me the wrong way -- it's not like anyone was actually going to hammer at this stage of the game, and he unvoted without voting anyone else or even putting any reads out, flat out saying that everyone was "pretty much null." Cuz I don't care how new you are, you should have at least one read by page three even if it's not a solid one yet. It reads as overly cautious and avoiding making any waves and I think it's worth a vote.

VOTE: ThirtyFour

[Akane Kurashiki]

And why the callout for Thirty Four's unvote and not Flame's? Both seemed pretty

appeasing

I don't disagree with you on that, but if everyone called out every little thing they saw, this game would be at 20 pages already. Better to focus on one thing at a time than cast too wide a net, in my opinion.

I'm still keeping an eye on Flames but, as you may have noticed, he kind of went into lurker mode. Especially since it's D1, I'd rather spend my energy pressuring and sussing out the alignments of people who are actually here.

pedit: that AtE tho

[Akane Kurashiki]

Maybe you should focus less on throwing a pity party for yourself and more on actually doing things. Getting emotional is fine but gunking up the thread with it isn't.

Can you expand on why you think Parama going after Bins and Flames is suspicious? Perhaps with references to specific posts this time?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Akane, what do you think about Parama?

leaning town

[Akane Kurashiki]

Okay okay sorry, playing mafia here has carved out my heart and replaced it with a callous blob, and it comes out in my posting style. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Leaning town on Parama cuz I think he's asked some decent scumhunting questions (and made some observations independently of me that I happen to agree with, like the N_M/you interaction). He never actually voted Bins and I read the interaction more along the lines of "applying pressure to see how they react" than "trying to call an easy target scum."

I was hoping for specific post numbers for later easy reference but meh. Go take a breather and come back when you're ready to play with a level head.

I will read Parama's post after I post this cuz I don't want to get ninja'd more >.>

[Akane Kurashiki]

If you decide you're not coming back, at least let the mod know so he can start finding a replacement sooner rather than later. Don't just vanish.

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Jackel: Have you played with Reck before? And can you elaborate on your reads please? (Flames, 34 = town, Reck = scum?)

[Akane Kurashiki]

wait what

Bins, why are you still voting N_M? Is that still purely random or is there a reason to it now? And do you have any reads?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Quilford has a well thought out case that makes sense, and Reck's posts in response to it read like flailing damage control to me. He seems more focused on discrediting Quilford than anything else, which isn't something a townie would be motivated to do. Besides, 34's slot is in replacement limbo so my vote isn't really doing anything right now if I leave it there.

VOTE: Reckoner

[Akane Kurashiki]

Maybe we somehow aren't reading the same post but I definitely saw more than just accusation of weak reads there.

What's your read on Quilford? Other than obviously disagreeing with his case.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I dunno. My kneejerk reaction to his case was to think he was scum because I didn't/don't believe he feels as strongly about my scumminess as he wants us to think he does.

A big "case" like that on page 7 seems super reaching.

Wow, this is like the second or third time you've said something like this. What is an acceptable page number for serious things to start happening? 10? 20? 500? Should town just sit with our thumbs up our asses forever and hope that the scum lynch themselves out of pity?

Cases and big ass game analysis are how we move the game forward. Reads and votes that mean something and pressure are how we move the game forward. An attitude like this implies that you just don't want to do anything, and more damning, you'd prefer that no one else did, either.

[Akane Kurashiki]

oh look we're on page 8 is it okay to be serious now?

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Parama: Keeping my vote on 34 would be doing absolutely nothing right now in terms of pressure, except maybe by proxy on 34's scumbuddy if he's scum. Pretty sure I said this earlier on at some point but I'd rather keep my vote on someone who's actually around at this point in D1 (i.e. with several days left til deadline). It's more useful in keeping the game moving forward that way.

@Reck: Okay, I don't think arguing about whether or not Quil's case is a solid one is going to resolve anything. You have reason to be biased because the case is on you. So maybe instead you can comment on other things that are happening in the game without someone having to figuratively pull teeth to get anything worthwhile out of you?

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Reck: "Found?" Past tense?

IDK it just seems like you've been playing reactively and only giving up as much as you feel forced to. You seemed perfectly happy to not give reasons for your votes until you were pressured. It's not the kind of thing where I tell you "hey go comment on this thing and that thing" and then you'll MAGICALLY NOT BE SEEN AS SCUM ANYMORE!! ...because it doesn't work that way.

[Akane Kurashiki]

@NM: Do you have any read on Bins right now?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Ok thanks N_M. I have a weirdly strong guttown read on Bins right now and it's really bothering me because if I take away the gut part of it I should probably be thinking null possibly scum for not having any reads/not really doing much of anything, but I can't shake the gut even on a re-read. Wanted someone to weigh in who's played with Bins before.

As for the points on me... I think this comes down to differences of opinion more than anything but it kind of makes me think N_M is town. In my opinion AtE is a personality tell more than an alignment tell and also my biggest pet peeve... and newness really,

really

shouldn't be a factor because that's how you get newbies playing the "oh I'm so new I don't know how to do anything" card and sweeping as scum.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm pretty sure he insults people as town too. You shouldn't take that as an alignment tell probably (or rely on meta so much)

[Akane Kurashiki]

?

I only see two votes.

And WOW I totally forgot about the special mechanic for a while.

6-Vote: Parama, 34, Akane, Jackel
5-Vote: Bins, Not_Mafia, Quilford, Flames

Not super committed to this by any means but figured I might as well put something down. We'll need to not only figure out who we're lynching in the next few days, but who is going through what doors together...

[Akane Kurashiki]

Wow, Reck's claim is kind of genius, but I don't believe it for a second. And I'm afraid of a scenario where he "uses his role" targeting his scumbuddy, scumbuddy is like "lol yeah he's town" and then they coast to an easy victory. And it just feels so slimy to me because it's

exactly

the kind of fakeclaim bullshit shenanigans that's Reck's style. We could even try to negate this situation by dictating who he "confirms" to, but then he or his scumbuddy can just kill that person and be like "welp I confirmed myself to them but now they're dead trololol"

It's too completely perfect to be real, wow. Basically there's a bunch of scenarios where he could be have "confirmed" without actually confirming anything. But then on the 1% chance it's actually true, it seems really bad to lynch it... arrrrrgh.

Someone else should weigh in on this... it's making my brain hurt

Leaving my vote where it is for now and doing a reread in the meantime, I guess.

[Akane Kurashiki]

where he could be have "confirmed"

english is hard durrrrrrhurrr

[Akane Kurashiki]

If we pick who he confirms to and that person dies then we're exactly back where we started except one super-townie down, and obviously we can't pick someone we

don't

think is town because then the information isn't trustworthy.

I'm mostly thinking his claim shouldn't change anything, because it's extremely unlikely to provide any pro-town results. On the off chance I'm wrong I feel really bad but given the circumstances it's prrrrroooobably the right play...?

@Bins: In the reck!town-confirmee!scum scenario, we lynch the confirmee once reck flips town. That one's actually pretty straightforward

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Akane: Who are you an alt of that you seemingly know what type of claim is a Reck style fakeclaim?

that would be telling

[Akane Kurashiki]

I saw people suggesting scum would kill in the rooms which is why the game could last until Day 9.

P.EDIT: It's a big thing when Akane is using so-called meta on me (which might not actually be accurate) and won't reveal her identity to verify the meta.

My identity is irrelevant when literally anyone can go read any game in pretty much the entire history of the site for themselves. I don't even have to have played with you personally, and regardless it's not exactly the crux of my argument for disbelieving the claim --- the claim itself is.

It's also a really stupid, desperate argument to make when I chose to alt way before the game was even in the queue, unless you're seriously trying to make the argument that keeping a secret alt secret is anti-town in which case...... nope, still stupid.

[Akane Kurashiki]

nope

[Akane Kurashiki]

k.

Half the game has been in here and posting since I made the post you take issue with. All but one of those people also posted after you took issue with it. Nobody else even cares about the meta part (and they really shouldn't, anyway, since it wasn't the important part), it's just you taking one sentence of one post, strawmanning and misrepping the whole post based on that one sentence, beating the strawman into a sad and bloody pulp, and then planting your flag on it and declaring victory.

Less important, but I'd rather replace out or be killed than compromise the alt-ness of this account since it's something I'm planning on reusing.

[Akane Kurashiki]

that's been pretty obvious from the start of the game, yeah

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm not gonna go look up specific games, I just know stupid ballsy fakeclaims have been something you've done.

You in particular bringing up this point is really dumb since you've played in all your games (I hope) and know it's true.

If anyone else actually gives a fuck maybe I'll dig up games then but until that point it's a waste of time as far as I'm concerned because no one should be voting just for meta reasons anyway

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yeah, I think Grib made the slot a lot townier just in his first few posts. Still a bit iffy due to the predecessor but I'd call him null-town for now.

I'm gonna have some thoughts from my reread in the next 12 hours or so, just have to deal with work stuff first.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Ok, what

I can understand a few reads changing upon a re-read, but the difference between when you first came in and now is only a few pages and yet you've pretty much rearranged your entire reads list and are being deliberately vague about your reasons why? How is a reads list with no reasoning help town? If you're town it just helps tell scum who to kill without giving town ammo to evaluate your reasons for a read on their own, and if you're scum it lets you pretend to be taking stances and doing things without actually sticking your neck out all that much.

And are you sure you're not just shooting darts at a board and "reading" us based on where they landed? Because that's how it comes across.

I want to know what changed your mind so much on the reread and what your thought process was... a reads lists with vague reasons is almost as useless as no reads at all.

To get you started: What did Parama do that made him rise up from null to second highest town (besides yourself)? If your read on Reckoner changing has nothing to do with the claim, what was it? And maybe most importantly, what exactly did yonce do that made the slot go from 2nd highest scumread to flat null (especially since all he did was come in, misunderstand the rules, have the rules clarified for him, and then leave again)?

[Akane Kurashiki]

EBWOP: I double checked and you joined on page 9. So I slightly rescind the comment about joining recently, since I thought it was more like page 12. (Obviously I haven't gotten to that point in my reread...)

You should still explain yourself and answer the questions, though.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'd rather ask Grib questions that I think will help me figure out his alignment, especially in relation to other people. For me, watching someone interact with and thinking about others tells me more than how someone interacts with me, because when it's about me I tend to get biased and it clouds my reads.

I also want to avoid leading into an argument where all I'm doing is defending myself because then I'm doing that instead of focusing on scumhunting.

Other people can ask for his read on me if they want (like Parama did) and maybe they'll get something out of it, but for me it's just not beneficial.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I mean, if you'll notice, I think I completely ignored Reck's vote on me earlier on in the game and he didn't give a reason either

[Akane Kurashiki]

Phone possssstin', yeah!

Ok so I just got done saying that stuff in three sixty four (can't write numbers apparently, phone is clinically retarded) but now I'm actually really curious to know how your read on me changes if Bins flips town because that seems like ninety (argh) percent of your case on me, no?

And scum can't blather and be obnoxious everywhere? (also can't quote but that is the gist)? Have you ever seen Fate play? Hint: they can and they do.

Pedit: Holy ninjas, Batman! I will respond to the rest when I can post from a computer again because even just this seriously took way too long.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Aaaaand we're back in business.

for a lot of my reads I assume that if a person is scum, they wouldn't do their partner the disservice of, say, throwing a huge fit and drawing so much attention to yourself.

Just for the record, this is the quote I was referring to earlier.

367:

It's not that it's useless or anything, it's just that I feel like I get biased more when I focus on someone's reads on me, especially if they're reading me wrong. I'm trying to get better at reading people more accurately because I feel like that's something I have a lot of trouble with, and I think bias due to someone reading me as town or scum is a lot of the cause of it. It's so easy to be like "yay you have a town read on me let's be BFFs forever" and then it turns out they were scum buddying you the whole time, or "boo you're wrong on me and I hate you for thinking I'm lying and now I'm reading everything you post as scummy." So I'm trying this new thing where I ignore that as much as possible this game and see if I read people more accurately when I focus more on their actions and their associations with others.

...ugh, that was word vomit, I'm sorry. Basically

tl;dr:

I think I suck at this game so I'm trying different things out to improve. I admit it's a weird strategy though. I actually got the idea after some face-to-face werewolf games where someone suggested I try it and it definitely helped there, I'm just not sure if it applies to forum mafia yet since it's a completely different game style and meta.

378:

Can you elaborate on why you only think Bins can be scum with Reck? I think I get what you're saying but it's really interesting to me because Parama said exactly the opposite earlier (

@Parama

: Is it still your opinion that Bins and Reck can't be scum together or has that changed?) Also really interesting that anyone who contemplates Bins!scum doesn't seem to find Bins scummy on his own; it seems like there's always pairings (or in Parama's case, anti-pairings) involved. Whereas the Reck wagon was pretty much just Reck with no attachments. I'm not really sure what that implies right now so this is mostly just a note to myself to re-examine it if I'm still around on a later day and Bins isn't. I just have a gut feeling that there's something important to be found there but I can't quite put my finger on it.

386:

To be fair to Gribs, he posted his reasoning on Reck because I asked him to. But yeah, the rest of that is pretty bad.

387:

holy crap. Do you think scum can't be genuinely frustrated? And what 'content' has Reck cracked out, exactly? After the claim he just kinda yelled at me about meta (blatantly misrepping me in the process, mind) and then disappeared again when I wouldn't play ball. Sure, I agree it's a step up from "I'm gonna blatantly vote for no reason and throw insults at anyone I take issue with" because at least he's actually formulating an independent opinion on something but that's really not saying much.

I think y'all are cutting Reck way too much slack based on the claim and are gonna be kicking yourselves when we have to kill him tomorrow anyway. But I guess we'll see.

And can you elaborate on how Parama's pressuring "feels different" than Gribs' pressuring?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I was about to yell at Grib for not answering my question when he quoted it then he did in the "ninja post" part. So thanks

I keep going back and forth on my read on him... I've seen some towny things from the slot and some scummy things from the slot and I almost feel like it's GoodpostBadpostGoodpostBadpost with how often I'm going back and forth on it. :/

I should probably stop procrastinating and do my promised re-read and hope I reach more clarity from that, hmph.

@Bins: IDK, that sounds like a difference of personality to me more than anything. If that's the extent of it I don't think that's something to put too much stock in, personally.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Town don't need to reaffirm they're town.

Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king.

Aaaaaaaand now I'm gonna go do that reread, see you guys in a few hours x_x

[Akane Kurashiki]

dat reread post! *insert rainbows and sparkles here*

names and page numbers bolded for readability, post numbers in parentheses. This may make more sense if you have another tab open and read along with me, because I'm trying not to make this any more of a wallpost than it needs to be but I also want to be thorough.

Page 1:

Not much going on here. But I actually kind of like that

Reck

rolled in and tried to preemptively shut down pages of setup discussion nonsense (13), but I don't agree with the reasoning (and on the flip side, it could potentially be trying to shut down town use of a useful mechanic) and then he pretty much completely negates this by immediately diving into more setup discussion for the rest of the page.

ThirtyFour

gets some small points for being one of the first people to ask a scumhunting question (17) aside from my weak question before to

Bins

(7).

ThirtyFour's

(23) doesn't seem nearly as big a deal on a re-read.

Page 2:

Reck's

line of questioning @

Jackel

seems legit (26 and 27), but then

Flames

jumps all over it (28) and makes it all slimy. I mean, maybe he had a derp moment, but he serious-voted someone for something that was blatantly untrue. I don't know how to feel about this. Also "Damn, already out of RVS" gives me scum vibes.

Jackel's

(29) kinda eh but fine in context I guess.

Reck

asks another good question (38).

Flames'

(39) is just... what? He voted on a blatantly false premise to get a reaction and unvotes when pressured? It seems really forced to me, and not in a good way.

Reck

gives early reads without prompting (42). What the hell is this? Am I even reading the same game anymore?

Parama

towns it up, nothing else to see here really (45).

Page 3:

(53) and onward... not really sure how

Parama

didn't understand what

Bins'

RVS vote was...? I kinda doubt it's willful obtuseness though, since it doesn't last long (66). I can kind of see how

ThirtyFour's

(61) might be cautious town although the unvote still rubs me the wrong way. Reading the rest of the post again it looks like he was trying to put some content out there and not just unvoting because "scurred of quicklynch ohnoes" like I originally read it as, so it seems not as bad in that context. In particular it seems like he was genuinely trying to read

Parama

. Having no reads whatsoever on page 3 is still pretty bad but, in that context, not as incriminating as I felt it was before.

Page 4:

I start the wagon on

ThirtyFour

(81). But on reread I'm not seeing him as nearly as scummy so far. It just doesn't seem like as big a deal as I thought it was at the time.

Reckoner

jumps from a presumably RVS me-vote to sheeping my wagon with no reasons or additional input -- I think this is where he really starts to go downhill (85).

Jackel

tries to get him to explain (86), and he does (93) but it feels... idk, unsatisfactory? More questions fly around and stuff,

ThirtyFour

still seems to be trying to develop reads (88, 94, 95).

In hindsight

Flames'

unvote seems much, much worse than

ThirtyFour's

, especially given future context of the former's slot being lurkalicious.

Reckoner

defends

Flames

on super, super weak reasoning (97) and now I'm wondering if they're scum together. It would also explain why

Reck

gets more belligerent and goes from seeming null-town to strongly anti-town as the game goes on -- it fucking

sucks

to basically be playing scum by yourself with a buddy who won't play the game, and

yonce

, the

Flames

replacement, is lurking too... I'll get to this post in my reread at some point but I remember

Parama

posting at some point that

Flames

was posting elsewhere but not in our game. Another point to add to the pile, although it would be a stronger one if he hadn't then been replaced.

... I don't want to end this here but real life calls so I'm just gonna post what I have now. Better to break it up so it's not so overwhelming anyway, I guess. I'll be able to resume this in another hour or so hopefully.

super awesome tl;dr for the lazy: Contemplating Reck + Flames/yonce scumteam. ThirtyFour/Grib significantly less scummy on re-read, just really not seeing this time what I saw before. Jackel asks some questions and shit and isn't entirely useless; faintly on the town side of null. Parama does town things. Not_Mafia was just kinda there but not really comment-worthy. Everyone else was just kinda not there for the most part.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I have a townish read on him actually but I'm trying to reread with an open mind. Doesn't do me (or anyone else) any good if I don't question and re-evaluate my reads while I do this.

Gettin' back to it now, I guess

[Akane Kurashiki]

Still doing reread, it's just taking forever and my brain was starting to melt so I decided to take a little break and catch up on the current posts.

yeah, for what little flames posted he seemed scummy, and now the slot has been lurking forever which on its own is null but it would explain Reck's frustration with the game really well. Especially since he didn't seem to start out the game seeming frustrated and yet was starting to look more frustrated even before the wagon on him took off (isos 18-21, especially 20, and 19 if you look at it in context), discrediting the idea that he was frustrated because he was being wagoned (although I'm sure that didn't help).

There's a lot of PoE in that mix there too because I have several town reads and some of my nuller reads just don't work with Reck!scum (example: quilford-Reck team doesn't make sense to me at all).

If I'm wrong on Reck then the case on Flames/yonce is MUCH much weaker but I happen to think that's pretty good deduction work considering the entire slot has only made like 8 posts all game, most of which were completely contentless. I'd also want to reassess some nuller reads in the event of a reck!town flip for the same reason. But I really don't think I'm wrong on this so it's w/e.

Why did you quote those posts though?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Basically I think he went into the game with the intention of actually trying to look town and then that got shot all to hell when he got stuck with a lame duck buddy (by the time the wagon on Reck was forming, Flames already hadn't been around for several days). That plus his defense on Flames, and yeah. Getting snippy with yonce later could be a halfhearted attempt at distancing or something or maybe he was just really pissed that his replacement didn't immediately come in and kick ass.

I guess Jackel could also be the buddy along mostly similar reasoning but I think it's less likely

Bins doesn't really fit the theory because she's at least been very definitely

around

even if she hasn't really done much of anything

34/Grib could maybe be the buddy (would explain the weird vote switcharooing Reck did) but I feel like my bias is talking here since they've both voted me so I'm inclined to dismiss that pairing on the grounds of "I'm too paranoid" and also 34 seeming way more town on my reread so far

note that this is an evolving theory since I haven't finished my reread, so I might dig up more to support it or find something that makes me retract it entirely. But right now it makes sense to me.

[Akane Kurashiki]

hey guise I rediscovered post tags, isn't it great? (thanks, post 118, for reminding me)

Spoiler: long reread post, pp 5-6

Page 5: Parama's

100 has a

very

consistent tone and feel to when he pressures

Bins

much later on for similar reasons. It's not exactly a secret that I don't think

Parama

is scum, but if he is, I think this weakly supports a theory that neither

Bins

or

ThirtyFour/Grib

is the buddy. Mostly just stating that for future reference. Also noting 101 for future reference. 104 is still terrible AtE but on reread it strikes me that it reads almost like a twilight post -- like he's a townie that feels like he's already been lynched and is begging town to listen to his thoughts one last time before the mod comes in to lock the thread. And it kind of was since he replaced out shortly afterward. Whoops. Yeah, the rest of his iso is reading very much like townie that can't handle pressure to me now.

112 has one bit that rubs me the wrong way -- namely

Parama

tells

ThirtyFour

not to make a certain kind of post and I remember just dismissing it at the time but it really doesn't make sense to me. Why is asking for a specific read scummy? Why did

ThirtyFour

get called out on this and not anyone else who's (probably) done it since -- at least, not that I remember? It's the only thing I've seen that makes me doubt my read on

Parama

so far but it's really bothering me now. 116:

ThirtyFour

says "

Parama

is fine now" but doesn't unvote...? I think I'm just gonna chalk that up to the fact that he was thinking of replacing out at that point but it is very odd. Post 120: Oh hey look,

Bins

actually kind of posted a read without being pressured to!

Page 6:

126 is a

Reckoner

post, turns out he took issue with the same part of a

Parama

post that I did above, which is noteworthy. Srsvotes me though without any reasons, hopping off the wagon I started to do so, creating a weird

Akane-34-Akane

sandwich. I mean this is definitely subject to bias since the votes are on me but to me that just says that he doesn't really care where his vote is and clearly isn't considering any interactions when he votes. (

Quilford

makes a similar observation on this point later on.) 128: this post strikes me as a really scummy response but then again posting stupid gifs as a response is

also

a very Reck thing to do so maybe this is a tell that he hasn't been taken over by bodysnatchers more than anything (and if he tries to deny this thing too because OMG META I am going to throw something. )

129:

Jackel

, from what I've observed, seems to have a habit of asking good questions but otherwise being completely null. Because they all seem really "safe" and

Jackel

really hasn't done anything risky or stuck her neck out for anything, this actually makes me read

Jackel

as scummier. She seems to be posting just enough to not really get noticed. 135 strikes me as town, though.

131 ok, I think this is where my gut-town read on

Bins

started. Since it's gut, it's hard to articulate, but I think

Bins'

general playstyle has been ... carefree, I guess? I just think scum are usually more careful and conservative in the way they post (barring the the occasional outlier) and this is a good example of a "didn't think about the repercussions, just posted" post to me. Also this applies to the game now moreso than to the reread directly but I think I'm just gonna sheep

Not_Mafia

when it comes to

Bins

unless he dies or I stop thinking he's townish or

Bins

starts acting scummy and not just anti-town.

144 is that one I was thinking of earlier where

Parama

notes that

Flames

was posting in other games.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm done doing rereads for today. My brain hurts.

Maybe tomorrow. Or maybe I'll be lazy and never continue it, because it's really time consuming to analyze, cross-reference things with isos and other pages when necessary, and then write everything out.

idk.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Wow, okay, let's stop this misrepping bullshit in its tracks.

(1)Wow, Reck's claim is kind of genius, but I don't believe it for a second. (2)And I'm afraid of a scenario where he "uses his role" targeting his scumbuddy, scumbuddy is like "lol yeah he's town" and then they coast to an easy victory. (3)And it just feels so slimy to me because it's

exactly

the kind of fakeclaim bullshit shenanigans that's Reck's style. (4)We could even try to negate this situation by dictating who he "confirms" to, but then he or his scumbuddy can just kill that person and be like "welp I confirmed myself to them but now they're dead trololol"

(5)It's too completely perfect to be real, wow. (6)Basically there's a bunch of scenarios where he could be have "confirmed" without actually confirming anything. (7)But then on the 1% chance it's actually true, it seems really bad to lynch it... arrrrrgh.

Someone else should weigh in on this... it's making my brain hurt

Leaving my vote where it is for now and doing a reread in the meantime, I guess.

Here is the post in question. I have added numbers on each of the sentences (except the last two because they're not part of my argument for disbelieving the claim).

Exactly ONE sentence in that post is about disbelieving the claim because of meta. The other SIX SENTENCES are disbelieving the claim because it's too damn convenient with too much wiggle room to get out ever actually being "confirmed." This is blatantly obvious to anyone with working eyeballs and yet Reck is CHOOSING to latch onto it because it conveniently allows him to park his vote on me (someone who has been voting him for quite a while) and yell and scream about nothing useful.

When was the last time Reck did anything actually pro-town? What is the ratio of helpful posts to rage and hot air?

Can we fucking lynch it already?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I will literally lynch anyone at this point. Anyone besides me. I have no fucking feelings about this game anymore. I think Grib looks pretty town, I guess, but fuck it, I'd probably lynch him too because I don't fucking give a shit.

If this were actually true, wouldn't the right thing to do be to replace out so we can hope for someone who

will

give a shit?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Kinda hard to read someone who thinks "playing the game" means "hurl insults everywhere". And I'm not really sure why you haven't been modkilled yet for violating general rule 6.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yeah I guess. I just don't understand why anyone thinks this is acceptable behavior.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I never said you've never acted this way before, I know you have

Doing it in more than one game doesn't make it any more appropriate.

And realizing you STARTED OFF pro-town and reasonable and THEN doing this bullshit is what really started making me push that line of thinking more, not just "oh reck is rageposting so scummy" because you're right, that WOULD be bullshit.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Okay, you know what, maybe I'll give you the benefit of the doubt then and drop that particular point. It's entirely possible what I know of your meta is outdated. That particular point also doesn't hold nearly as much water if yonce is town, and that early claim was really bad, but seemed really town!bad to me. So my Reck/yonce scumteam theory is kind of deflated anyway. Basically, I mostly agree with 474.

Maybe you could try to post with less rage? TBQH I wonder if I'm just tunneling at this point and the raging is not helping. I do not want to play with a ragey useless Reck because I know if you're town you can play way better than you've been playing. I've actually liked some of your recent posts content-wise.

Tone it down, chill out, post some reads and levelheaded thoughts and actual CONTENT FFS.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I really don't understand how that would change anything?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I think I would be doing a lot more capslock rage and maniacal BWAHAHA-ing if I were

[Akane Kurashiki]

unless it's ALL PART OF MY PLAN

HEHHEHEHEHEAHHAHAHAHEHEHEA

something something chucklefucks

etc.

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Reck: nope

@Jackel: What's your least-town null read, then? Go from there.

[Akane Kurashiki]

If we're not lynching Reck today I think I'm okay with a Yonce lynch (if he doesn't post more/doesn't seem town when he does then yes, despite the bad-town seeming claim) or a Jackel lynch (been lurkish, hasn't done anything memorable, reads like possible coasting scum). I'm kind of torn on this because I don't think it's a good idea for any more claims to happen today so leaning toward yonce but as of RIGHT NOW yonce seems townier than Jackel for pretty much the bad-towny claim alone, so leaning toward Jackel.

IDK, but that's pretty much where I stand right now.

Bins and then Quilford aren't great lynches imo because I still lean nulltown on them but they'd be acceptable runners-up to me over anyone else. I'd lynch Bins over Quilford.

Not gonna order my more townish reads because that would be silly, but I will at least say that I'd be reasonably okay with anyone not mentioned here going through the door with Reck.

[Akane Kurashiki]

uhhhhh?

@Mod: If an action requires being in the same room as someone, does not going through a door (and therefore being in the "main room") with someone count for that? Or do they have to go through a door to use it?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Also even if the mod says those types of actions can be used like that, I don't think we want Reck confirming himself to the scummiest player. And wouldn't he have to if that was the only other person he was in a room with, or am I misunderstanding your idea?

[Akane Kurashiki]

well if I have to be someone I guess gamma is a pretty cool person to be, but still no

although I'd say no even if you guessed correctly so that's not really saying anything

but if it makes you feel better, you can pretend I said yes

and I've said what I thought about yonce (in 518 and also some other posts in the reread) but it's basically that the slot and everything has been scummy or null EXCEPT for the random claim which seemed like bad-town but that's not really enough for him to be not lynched today. and also I kinda feel like having anyone else claim today is a bad idea so there's that, but it's less important.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'd move my vote to yonce except I think maybe we should figure out door votes first since my vote would put him at L-1?

I want Reck to be in a room with 2 of [Parama, Grib, Quilford, Not_Mafia, Akane]

basically people I don't think are super likely to be scum with Reck so he can't do ~

fakeclaim shenanigans

~ as easily. I DO NOT want him picking and everyone else sheeping his choice for that reason -- I want us to collectively decide for him.

It might be nice to get 2 or 3 of [Bins, Not_Mafia, Jackel] in a room since apparently they've all played with each other before?

similar reasoning for 2 or 3 of [Parama, Quilford, Reck, Akane] together

I think scum probably aren't limited on their kills by doors or at least have a strongman-type role but if we're going off the idea that they are, we should probably leave out [Bins, Jackel] since Bins has been highly suspect/active lurking all day and Jackel is lurky. Or maybe we DO put them in a room with someone widely considered null and just leave all the null/scum people stuck with each other.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Are you actually reading the game, Quil?

Because this isn't the first time you've apparently missed something that's already been said.

[Akane Kurashiki]

7-vote: xRECKONERx, Quilford, Not_Mafia
8-vote: Parama, Akane Kurashiki, Bins

I think that might have been a hammer, Parama. Or I can't count. One of the two.

[Akane Kurashiki]

oh ok. I forgot you were already on him, derp.

I'm hereby voicing

INTENT TO HAMMER.

Large so no one can miss it.

If anyone has anything compelling left to say before the day is done, sooner is better than later.

I think the only person who might have something left to say is Not_Mafia? His recent posts are more or less "oh I didn't realize Grib replaced 34, better reread" and "didn't have time today, maybe tomorrow" and I'm still kind of waiting to hear what his thoughts are on that.

[Akane Kurashiki]

This is a pretty stark turnaround. Why do you think you didn't see what you're seeing now at the time?

I think I got overly excited about what I thought I saw at the time, because it was early in the game and not much was happening. I was excited because I thought I saw something that I could make a case on and really give us that last push out of RVS, and I think I latched onto it too hard as a result.

Going back and rereading after everything else that has happened D1 helped me put it in perspective and realize what I was looking at was not

nearly

as big as I'd been making it out to be, and then I could better understand in that context why 34 would react the way he did.

RE: Reck's claim, if it were really that simple I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with it, but you're forgetting the possible outcome where the person he "confirms" to is NKed, leaving him still unconfirmed and we're just simply worse off than we were before. Or "lol I was roleblocked." Or any number of things really. But it's whatever at this point, the wagon I want most isn't going to happen today and I've made my peace with that.

PS: If you're not done, just move fast. Yonce didn't actually self hammer because he formatted incorrectly (as Parama has pointed out). But if he ever comes back he could realize that and fix it.

(The VLR escape door had a big 9 on it too didn't it? that's why it's still the nonary game)

Yes.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yeah, I know. And on the off-chance he's actually town, it's the right move. But if he's scum and we all hopped off of him because he made an excellent fakeclaim... well I dunno about you, but I'm gonna feel really stupid for letting him get away with it even if it's just for one more Day.

[Akane Kurashiki]

So is that everything? I think we have a door plurality now and if everything is resolved, we should go ahead and hammer this in.

I'll do so in ~3 hours if I haven't heard any objections. Or N_M can do it before then if he thinks it's the right call.

[Akane Kurashiki]

yeah, that.

VOTE: Yonce

Door vote is definitely a plurality -- I counted 5.

[Akane Kurashiki]

second?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Figures.

But hey at least no one died?

I need to go read someone's iso, brb

OH MY GOD STOP POSTING FASTER THAN ME I HAVE TO REFRESH EVERY TIME ASDF:SJ

[Akane Kurashiki]

Okay, isoing done, thought I might have something but I don't. Sigh.

Bins, can you go over your reasoning for voting yonce? I know he's dead and flipped and everything, just humor me for a moment.

Reck, what exactly happened in your QT?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Something like that. Point is I didn't get what I was hoping to get out of it so I have nothing to share with the class right now.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Anyway, kind of stupid to do VCA on the first day but I'm reasonably sure everyone from our door is town, which would indeed leave Quilford as a prime suspect. And as I said in the QT, I'm really not comfortable with Quilford's activity level, or Jackel's. They've both been the type to come in here, make a few okay-seeming posts, and then completely vanish/do nothing of note for days at a time. Seems too easy for two people of similar playstyle to be scum together but I'd be okay with putting pressure on either one right now.

VOTE: Quilford

Gut still tells me I should be voting Reck but I'm surprisingly more comfortable leaving him alive for now since no one died last night and he allegedly still has his ability. /shrug

And on that note I guess we have a better idea now of why special rule 9 exists...

[Akane Kurashiki]

also, I hate playing outguess the mod/setup but I'm wondering if one mafia has a roleblock and one has a kill or something. In which case we should be looking at Grib/Jackel anyway (Grib less so since he volunteered to not go into a room).

I kind of doubt it because it seems pretty simple to break the game that way, but idk, worth thinking about?

PEDIT: Okay.

VOTE: Jackel

[Akane Kurashiki]

Luckily I think we got enough use out of our QT to maybe make up for a lack of activity in the other one. Nice to have a more solidified read on Bins (who actually posted content; I will leave it to her to paraphrase her stuff if she wants to)

[Akane Kurashiki]

Also I know I'm getting way ahead of where we need to be thinking right now, but I think we send Reck through with none of the same people tonight. Like some number of {Reck, Parama, Bins, maybe Grib, maybe Akane} although I understand if Reck still doesn't want to go into a room with me. {Reck, Parama, Bins} is probably the safest bet then but I'm not sure what the other door should be, or even if we should

have

another door.

This gives Reck!town a way to confirm himself if scum can't do actions through walls, or shows us that it's likely they can use abilities through walls if he's still blocked. Or he's lying scum and it doesn't matter.

It's like playing Mastermind, eventually we have to get the combination right. (Hopefully.)

[Akane Kurashiki]

What is it with people voting me who clearly haven't read my posts all the way through?

I've been calling out Jackel since yesterDay's rereads. This is not a new thing. Instead of me repeating myself, how about you go read my iso?

Parama and Bins are almost definitely town. I am town. That leaves Quilford as the only ??? on the yonce wagon. Jackel is scummy too. Sadly, I can only have my vote on one person at a time or I would be voting both of them. Why am I voting Jackel over Quilford right now? Go. Actually. Read. My. Posts. (hint: 632's vote change is in direct response to 630)

[Akane Kurashiki]

Hey bins, you should be voting.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Hey Quilford, how about you comment on things that are happening in the here and now instead of dragging the same argument on and on forever?

(this could easily apply to reck too but he's not the one who's here right now)

[Akane Kurashiki]

Quil: The POE argument is an admirably large ball of WIFOM and all, but that isn't actually saying anything useful.

Why do I have to tell you what is going on in the game now? How about you comment more on it yourself instead of being stuck in an argument from ~15 pages ago? If Reck is scum he is still around and will still probably do scummy things. I don't see how your argument is over anything more than hairsplitting.

Grib: I was definitely saying something along the lines of "would be totally okay with a Jackel lynch" yesterday. Maybe that implies something different to you than it does to me.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Grib: Yesterday it was, today they're roughly the same in my mind. This is due partially to the flip but more due to talking to Bins and Parama over the night phase. I had a much nuller read on Quilford at the end of D1 than I do now.

Quilford, I don't disagree with your assessment of Reck but I really don't think a lynch on him is gonna happen today due to the role bullshit. If you're town I'd rather see you putting your mind to D2 stuff and not an argument that is still persisting from D1.

[Akane Kurashiki]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

por que, el reckerino?

[Akane Kurashiki]

oh also

@Mod: I'll be V/LA from the 2nd through to the end of the 5th.

I should still be able to post but much, much less.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Quality, not quantity.

What changed your mind on Quilford, exactly? Who is your main scum read and why aren't you voting them?

[Akane Kurashiki]

778 is :goodposting:

I don't think there's much point in worrying about the doors yet, although I'm a little worried it's not going to be possible to accomodate everyone's wishes with it. If we accomodate Grib's request, it forces us to go 3-3-1 which doesn't leave a whole lot of room for flexibility.

It's hard to hunt scum when the people I think are scummiest won't post much.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Don't worry about the math just yet; it's a lot of numbers to crunch when we don't even know who's getting voted off the island today.

[Akane Kurashiki]

wow, that was special, I'm glad I got to see that basically right as it happened

[Akane Kurashiki]

anyway, I'm here for the rest of the day until whatever point at which I collapse from exhaustion. Which should probably be about now-ish but I will probably try to press on for at least another few hours.

This isn't going to help the whole "everyone wants a different door vote" situation but I think Bins and I should go through with Reck and Parama should chill with Quil + NM. IDK if the numbers work for that because I'm too tired for things like math and can only barely pull off intelligible language.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Parama, you should keep in mind posts 45 and 46 from our QT last Night, because in this situation they're spot on. Hopefully you get what idea I'm trying to point you towards from that because it's a really bad idea for me to be more specific.

(for the record I OKed this kind of vagueposting with the mod before doing it)

[Akane Kurashiki]

Bleh. Whatever then, it's not actually that important right this moment anyway. It just gave me an idea that I can't really verbalize any other way, that's all.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Sooooooo Quilford's due for a prod (and has posted elsewhere on the site recently) and Jackel will be due for a prod before too much longer. This game is stagnating badly with two of my prime suspects AWOL.

Are you sure you don't have a double vote today, Parama?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Or replace out instead of being disrespectful to the mod and other players by taking up a spot in a game you don't have time for...

Seriously, if that's your actual reason for not participating it just means you're being fucking inconsiderate. Full stop.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I thought I was supposed to be Gamma :'(

also I think I'm gonna go ahead and leave my vote on Jackel's slot until and unless I find the replacement satisfactory.

[Akane Kurashiki]

pshhh mod is just covering for me, I'm totally Gamma you guys

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm technically sorta done with my V/LA but this week has been grueling and I'm exhausted so I'm just gonna catch up tomorrow probably.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm here too.

been reading for like half an hour actually but it's hard to catch up when my brain is still in a semi-liquid state and there's a new page every time I get through one.

Gamma seems ehh for right now, already better than Jackel though, gonna unvote for now. also I'm pretty okay with NM pressure so let's do that

UNVOTE: gamma
VOTE: NM

Quilford-Reck reads like a little girl slap fight but Reck's posts are reading pretty genuine and Quilford... idk, he's like a pitbull that won't let go after he finds someone to bite and I'm not really sure what to think of that.

Grib is null maybe slightly town and I am superawesomecooltown of course.

Parama pointing out that there was a previous claim is disappointing but here goes Quil with his pitbull tactics again. Has that claim gambit ever actually worked? Because I don't think I've ever seen it work and if it never works then what's the point in yelling at someone for fucking it up?

anything else I forgot to comment on? I think I got everything from the last few pages

[Akane Kurashiki]

you're scum with gamma

Reck is scum with gamma

everyone is scum with gamma!

okay now partaaaaay~

bins, lol. I agree.

[Akane Kurashiki]

aw snap.

Sorry to see you go, Quil

[Akane Kurashiki]

Pretty sure reck would have been the lynch D1 if not for his claim, so yeah.

[Akane Kurashiki]

http://www.mafoa.com/

lol?

[Akane Kurashiki]

rofl, sorry, couldn't resist :3

[Akane Kurashiki]

Did some rereading esp. of dual-isos. Not gonna go in depth on that because I don't think anyone really reads those wall posts anyway, but I'll at least share the concluding thoughts:

For today, it's down to Quil or NM for me. I will not be voting anyone else today barring a claim of role information or something.

As for doors:

5-Vote: Akane, Parama, Reck

4-Vote: Bins, Bulge, Gamma

I know Reck won't agree with this vote (and frankly don't care) but this arrangement isn't about me and him, it's mostly about where I think other people need to go because ~setup speculation reasons~ plus some combinations I wouldn't mind are restricted due to two of the doors being locked (7 and 8). Also I was starting to come around to maybe thinking he was town but the fact that he's

not

willing to lynch either of the people he went through the doors with last night despite the fact that there was almost no activity in their QT last night and there's pretty much 100% at least one scum in that room strikes me as extremely, extremely suspect. I'm thinking the team is Quil/Bulge and NM or NM and Reck, which either way puts NM at the top of my list right now. I still don't think Quil/Bulge and Reck is a particularly valid combination but eh.

If I'm wrong on NM it most likely means I'm wrong about one or more of my strong town reads and the Rabbit Hole of Extreme Paranoia isn't something I'm wanting to look too far down until and unless that comes to pass.

@Reck

: Is the replace out really the only reason you're dismissing Bulge as town for today? Can you elaborate more on your read there overall?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yes, because Grib wants to be alone and for right now I'm willing to acquiesce to that.

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Reck:

It's definitely mostly about reasons based on what people have claimed or softclaimed, yep. And apparently I DO "get to" say it because I just did.

You're putting me in a room with someone I can't stand

That sounds awfully personal. If that's the case than a.) <insert me pretending to be hurt here> b.) all the more reason to stick us in the same room, because frankly that's really petty and blatantly biased and therefore you can get over your damn self.

[Akane Kurashiki]

@reck

I would care a whole lot more about who you do and don't want to be in a room with if you weren't probably scum. it's impossible to make everyone happy with these doors tonight so I'm gonna err toward working with the needs/wants of people I think are town.

Also I just posted my door vote and gave out some stuff to explain my line of thinking. Nowhere did I say "Hey, everyone should do this" or anything of the sort. For anyone sheeping my vote, that's on them and they're probably the ones you should take issue with for their vote instead of scapegoating me as if I'm mind controlling everyone else in the game and the sole harbinger of an outcome you want to throw a temper tantrum over.

also, pick one:
- playing horribly anti-town for the vast majority of the game
- People listening to you

cuz sorry sweetcheeks, but claiming a confirmable role doesn't give you an automatic influence pass.

[Akane Kurashiki]

If I'm scum like you seem to think I am, I already know I'm wrong.

If I'm town, and you're town, then I could say more or less the same about you.

If you're scum and I'm town then I'm right.

So no? but ok

pedit: what parama said

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'd kinda like to see that actually


....





ok thanks google

[Akane Kurashiki]

LOL I WIN

[Akane Kurashiki]

Bins is my favorite part, I think.

[Akane Kurashiki]

here you go parama, I did it for you

[Akane Kurashiki]

What's the point of asking us to self-meta?

But if you still want me to answer the question, nah, just messing around. If you don't make it fun sometimes, what's the point?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I read it, Reck, and alignments aside for a moment, I think you should make more posts like that. It had logic and reasons and other good stuff that isn't just "I don't care about this game, let me continue to take up a slot in it anyway." Whoo.

But I'm having that problem right now where I read one guy and go "hey that post makes sense!" and then someone else posts something completely different and I go "hey, that guy also makes sense!" so I need some time to sort out what my actual thoughts are and what's just me wanting to sheep everything that isn't obvious crazytalk. (Does anyone else ever do this or is it just me? ._.)

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'll be home in about 2 hours to post reads etc and lay down a vote.

Also this was a bucket of lies and falsehoods but I can't say I'm really surprised

[Akane Kurashiki]

VOTE: The Bulge

Some extra motivation to stop being a lying liarface.

@Mod: VC please

[Akane Kurashiki]

Town have fluid reads, scum do not.

Sooooo you're calling yourself scum, then? You've been calling me scum since early day 1 and I've seen nothing that shows you're even considering anything that might make you re-evaluate.

And that's fine in a vacuum, I don't really think it's a tell one way or another, but if you're seriously going to push this as a tell then I'm gonna have to point out that you're calling a kettle black when you're an even blacker pot.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I don't understand why that makes a difference. If you want to try to explain it, I'd like to understand. (Also, I've done the same thing while thinking along the same lines as Parama -- I have liked some of your more recent posts but they don't outweigh your earlier scumminess in my mind. Why call him out for this and not me?)

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm bothered by the one on Bulge

Is this still because of the claim? The bulge stuff on NM actually seems pretty bad to me and actually makes me want to lynch him more over NM. Also interesting that Quil and NM really didn't interact all that much (at least not in a way that was noteworthy enough to remember) and then Bulge comes out of the gate pretty much only talking about him, but without more flips I'm not sure it's interesting!scummy and not just interesting.

@Gamma: What bins said, but also I tend to give people town points for pointing out something I agree with before I've stated it under the logic that if I'm town and notice or think something, I know it's coming from a town mindset, so if someone else is thinking the same way it makes me think they're also more likely to be town. And this is something that has happened a lot with Parama and not just in the QT (although I usually won't point it out because it's kind of silly to be pointing at things constantly and going, "hey, another reason why this guy is town!" cuz the point of the game is to scumhunt, not point out who's town).

I'm rambling, but anyway yeah, that.

[Akane Kurashiki]

it has both the other wagoneers on it

hmm, that's a really good point actually. Ergh.

VOTE: NM

L-1.

(I think?)

Also by "claim" I meant "replace" ... I don't know how that happened but I was fastposting so maybe that's why. My brain does weird things.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Hmm. I believe the role but I have a hard time believing the role + the alignment. I guess it could be truly town if scum have powerful roles, but we haven't seen any indication that that's the case since there hasn't even been a nightkill and all we know is that scum have a roleblock if Reck turns out to be telling the truth... and all the other claims have been weak. Scum Vanillizer makes more sense to me.

Bins, are you around? What do you think of the claim?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Also if someone from the other room is going to counter-claim that they were vanillized, now's the time

gotta say, a 1v1 would make this game much less confusing and aggravating than it currently is

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Parama: They could be scum together?
@Grib: Oh. I don't think I've ever seen it and it sounds like a scum role to me, but if someone else can confirm that then that's one less reason to think the claim is scum.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Hmmm.

Vanillaisers are usually anti-town (most famously Alien in the Great/Greater/Greatest/Cracking Idea Mafia variants), but not always so.

So there's that.

@bins: he said he was blocked but still has his shot, suggesting that he wasn't claiming to have been vanillized. If he goes back on it now then someone's definitely lying and it's a 1v1.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I WASN'T DONE THINKING DAMMIT but ok.

[Akane Kurashiki]

oh

...

snap.

I guess he doesn't actually care as much as he claimed to

or he's gonna spend the entire 48 hours or whatever it is being a royal ass

or both!

I invite him to defy my expectations though. The bar is presently set pretty low.

[Akane Kurashiki]

E!

[Akane Kurashiki]

O

[Akane Kurashiki]

That doesn't look like any word I know.

S?

[Akane Kurashiki]

R

[Akane Kurashiki]

L

[Akane Kurashiki]

Damn Grib, you're way better at this than me.

Third word = killing?

pedit: dammit

[Akane Kurashiki]

lolol

I have the message, reck is town

that was unexpected.

[Akane Kurashiki]

...actually hold on

[Akane Kurashiki]

well the mod is an asshole, but I already knew that.

So after actually using some critical fucking thinking, I realized that the PM doesn't

actually

confirm anything. I have to be careful how closely I paraphrase but basically I received a PM from the mod that said that I've received a message, and the message is a quote that tells me what I've already stated.

I asked the mod if he was actually confirming his alignment and he responded that the PM he sent me was true, which given the way everything was worded doesn't ACTUALLY confirm anything except that I received a message with unconfirmable information.

Ugh.

But I'm inclined to believe it anyway.

[Akane Kurashiki]

The message fits with flavor, at any rate.

ugh ugh ugh. What the fuck ever, let's lynch scum today so this stupid game can stop hurting my stupid brain.

[Akane Kurashiki]

And why are we worrying about Grib's role, exactly? He's flipped. I was talking about Reck still.

pedit OMG SO MANY POSTS

[Akane Kurashiki]

oic.

[Akane Kurashiki]

So are we actually claiming? Meh.

I can change someone's bracelet number for the rest of the game, so we can go through door combinations we might not have been able to manage before.

I haven't used it yet because there hasn't been a reason to.

[Akane Kurashiki]

surprise, Parama was vanilla this whole time!

Parama, if you're not gonna get reck mad then I will.

[Akane Kurashiki]

no, I use it during the day.

[Akane Kurashiki]

aaaand all the lightbulbs click on. lol.

[Akane Kurashiki]

well hopefully we win today and the rooms don't matter, but yeah we should figure that out. We could probably stuff all five of us into a room with my ability but if the game goes on any longer I'm not sure we'd be able to use rooms after that because we only have a few left. I'd have to do math and stuff and see who the best person to change is.

pedit: yeah, what bins said.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Jackel didn't even mention NM.

not only this, but she mentioned everyone else at least once, and several people a butt-ton. That's a stronger associative tell than just not mentioning NM.

I basically wrote an outline for a thesis paper in the QT for you and Jackel/Gamma associative tells, and got halfway through one on Parama before my care-o-meter ran out, sooooo yeah.

[Akane Kurashiki]

yeah you are. Other people (reck, maybe parama?) have mentioned the possibility.

I don't think it's out of the question but it's not something I want to even think about until and unless we're still stuck here after we have 2 dead scum on our hands. It's plausible but I don't see a point in worrying about it just yet if it might not even be true.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm curious what you thought I was saying, though?

[Akane Kurashiki]

oh, yeah, I can see how you might read it that way. Sorry, I'm not good at clarity especially when I'm posting quickly... I tend to write like I talk, and I talk in a jumbled ADHD mess oftentimes.

[Akane Kurashiki]

now we have a dance party obviously

ok serious answer, I believe we're waiting on Gamma to show up and say things but he's probably the lynch of the day anyway? and we also have to figure out door votes just in case that ends up being a thing that ends up mattering.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I was gonna post something, but then I realized it was basically a longer version of what Parama just said.

So yeah, that. ^

Although if Gamma takes too long, I might have to start spamming the thread with silly gifs just cuz.

[Akane Kurashiki]

6-vote - Bins, Akane, Parama, Reck, Bulge

Assuming this works the way I think it does, I'm changing Bulge's number to 0.

[Akane Kurashiki]

It worked, cool.

I intend to wait until Gamma posts thoughts/Saturday is over to vote.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I really don't want to lynch Gamma now.

UNVOTE: Gamma

That was pretty town IMO. Last remaining scum Gamma would've given up and not bothered.

Who would you rather lynch then? Are you just ignoring all the associative tells between Jackel/Gamma and NM? Did I not just write a huuuuuuuuuuuuge thing in the QT last Night about that?

Gamma fighting to live actually makes a lot of sense if it's 4:2 right now. They only need two, maybe even only one mislynch (if they're sitting on a killing power as you suggested in the QT last Night). I know this is pretty much your dream scenario since you've been hating on me all game and Gamma's post is attacking me, but one content post you like doesn't erase a whole game full of tells and even

you

should be able to realize that through your bias if you're not scum.

VOTE: Gamma

[Akane Kurashiki]

Why do you think N_M chose to kill Grib over anyone else?

Now that you mention it, why the hell didn't he shoot Reck? I'd been assuming he shot Grib because he was concerned about a power role sounded poweful and he wasn't sure what it did, but if he knew Reck was town and Reck was claiming something confirmable, why wouldn't he shoot Reck to help give his scumbuddy(s) a little more wiggle room? I haven't reread NM/Reck together but from my first readthrough of the whole game I'm inclined to say they aren't scum together. But then ???? And why wouldn't he shoot me, or Parama, or Bins, for each of us having people loudly calling us town?

Bins, what is sexist exactly?

[Akane Kurashiki]

pretend that post doesn't have misspellings or grammatical errors plskthx

[Akane Kurashiki]

It doesn't actually confirm anything, the way it's worded. I've already said this

[Akane Kurashiki]

If it's bothering you maybe you can ask the mod what exactly he PMs when you use your ability? Most mods are good about clarifying roles. Wouldn't be surprised if he trolls you with a worthless response, though, since that's what I got when I asked him for clarification about it

[Akane Kurashiki]

How do I know you were restricted by room? You could have not been and just said you were. There's no proof that you weren't. But I don't even see why that's particularly relevant anymore if you're one-shot.

Are you or are you not going to try to clarify with the mod? Because there's nothing more I can do on my end. I've already asked and received clarification and that clarification was an implication that I don't actually know jack shit about your alignment, I just know that it is mod-confirmed that received a message with

non mod-confirmed information

stating that you are town. That is a pretty damn important distinction.

I don't think this is a bastard game (and if I find out it is, I'm replacing out because fuck that). So why wouldn't you ask the mod so we can try to determine what the hell is going on?

[Akane Kurashiki]

It's pretty hard to be calm when I'm potentially in a 1v1 scenario because you decided to be a chucklefuck and target me instead of someone you'd actually fucking believe if they said all this.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I asked him again for good measure and I'm still getting that I've received a message. That's all I have that's mod-confirmed. Not your alignment.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm not voting you, and have no intention to vote you under current circumstances...?

When I said what I said in the QT I was making the assumption there was only one scum left, and things seemed pretty clear cut. I am no longer making that assumption. If gamma is town or if he's scum and the game doesn't end, I don't want to be dismissing you or anyone else as town for ANY OTHER REASON than me literally getting a PM that only says "this person is town" without any of the stupid "hey you got a message, here you go" bullshit.

I still don't think you're scum with NM, that much hasn't changed and I really can't see it changing. That doesn't completely rule out the possibility of you being anti-town, which is why we're in this mess.

[Akane Kurashiki]

:headdesk:

[Akane Kurashiki]

If I were scum, why the hell wouldn't I just a.) 1v1 you right out of the gate b.) claim I didn't receive anything and let you flounder c.) LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN WHAT I SAID??

[Akane Kurashiki]

And

furthermore

, why would I initially state "oh yeah I got a PM he's town" AND THEN go back on it to make up some convoluted bullshit? Is your theory that I'm a lyncher and really need you in particular dead except I'm clinically retarded and forgot at first? Because otherwise THERE IS NO LOGIC TO THIS WHATSOEVER.

OCCAM'S RAZOR THIS SHIT. It is far simpler that I AM TELLING THE FUCKING TRUTH than that I am making up a lie the mod would contradict me on.

hi parama maybe want to weigh in on this more than that?

[Akane Kurashiki]

okay fine whatever

I'm stepping away from the game for the rest of the night and doing something that doesn't threaten to give me an ulcer.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Reck, what the fuck happened between 1476 and 1492?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Reck, what the fuck happened between 1476 and 1492?

Uh what the fuck are you talking about

1476 sounds like you're denying what I said about the PM I was sent about you, 1492 sounds like you actually did get confirmed that what I've been saying is true. I'm confused by the transition there. Did you PM the mod again after 1476, or...?

[Akane Kurashiki]

If that's the case, then I misread it, and also I now have even less of an understanding for why you voted and then unvoted me than I thought I did before. ?_?

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yeah, I thought you were voting me because you didn't believe me when I said my PM doesn't actually confirm you, and then backed off in 1492 because you figured out I was telling the truth. If you knew earlier than that, I don't even know what we were fighting about. Which I guess could sum up most of our arguments in this game actually.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I think part of the problem we're having is that those of us who've been here for the whole game are kind of fatigued by now and ready for it to be over. (Parama/Bins/Reck, feel free to yell at me if I'm wrong on that, but I don't think I am.) I could go on a rant about long deadlines killing enthusiasm for games but it's more appropriate for MD than here. That and we've been playing the whole game assuming 2 scum, but now there's a very real possibility that there's three, and I think that's killing morale.

I guess I'll paraphrase my thoughts on Jackel/Gamma from the QT since I don't think I've done that yet other than to say one sentence about associative tells. Keep in mind I was ONLY looking for associative tells so it's entirely possible I missed something for or against Gamma being scum based on something the slot did that didn't have anything to do with NM.

Spoiler: There's nothing new here for you if you are Reck or Parama, it's basically a reworded QT post 44.

- Points in gamma's favor:

- 233, Jackel makes a(n unbolded) door vote putting NM and Jackel in the same room. It's hard to say for certain since this is a unique mechanic but I generally feel like that's worthy of townpoints. I don't think scum would want to be in the same room together barring role reasons. This is a weaker point if there are actually three scum.

- 910: Gamma replaces in, saying why he doesn't think NM is scum. It's hard to evaluate someone's reasons for something when you know they're wrong, but his reasons seem to make sense at least.

- 1193 is actually a fair point (defending himself for being on Bulge wagon).

- Points against Gamma:

- Jackel replaces out at 844, the last time she even mentions NM is the door vote in 233. That alone wouldn't strike me as particularly incriminating except that she mentions literally everyone else, in most cases multiple times. I can't see any pro-town reason for just completely ignoring one player's existence. In roughly 600 posts, the mention-count is as follows: Reck x7, one as a response to him, Bins x5, two as a response to her, Parama x5, Akane x5, one as a response to me, Quil/Bulge x4, Grib x3, yonce x1, NM x0.


(Note: this is only counting one mention per post from 516 on; I think I also did it that way before that point but before that point I have record of it in the QT because that was when I noticed it in my readthrough so I'm not 100% sure my methods are consistent. However, point still stands even if the numbers are slightly off.)

- In 771, NM asks Jackel a question and she never responds (despite responding to several other posters, as mentioned above). More evidence onto the pile of Jackel completely ignoring NM.

- posts 1177 - 1181 are pretty much the only times the Gamma slot and NM interact (there's also some by Jackel around 76 - 80.) But these all follow the same pattern of not being anything very important, and there's a very different feel to it than how NM interacted with others (i.e. Bins). Also note a door vote putting NM and Gamma in separate rooms (touched on my theory on door votes earlier).

I'm not gonna break it down post by post but I haven't seen anything toDay from Gamma that's been strong enough to counteract the associative tells. Anyone can write up a case and anyone can push people to be more active. These are not town tells.

[Akane Kurashiki]

tl;dr of NM iso for good measure:

Bins is super town via associative tells and I found multiple reasons to think this throughout their two isos. 285 is a door vote putting NM in a room with Jackel and Quil, everyone else elsewhere, said what I thought of door votes earlier. 639 has very light possible bussing of Jackel. 640 made me think Bulge was town. 794 is slight town points to Bulge and Bins (door vote theory). Note that with all these door vote things I'm not counting something that was blatantly sheeping someone else's door vote, just votes the person made on their own. 1196 made me a bit paranoid about Bulge (I also took this opportunity in the iso to say something about how I didn't like Bulge's posts on replace-in) but I didn't think it outweighed some of the points in Bulge's favor (i.e. counterwagon to scum).

I also did an iso on Bins and came to the conclusion that Bins and NM are pretty much 100% not scum together, and an iso on Parama that I got through d1 on and didn't really glean much of anything new from. I have not been not-lazy enough to do an iso on Reck or Bulge.

[Akane Kurashiki]

^ Forgot to say this but that was paraphrasing QT posts too, still nothing new for Parama or Reck.

[Akane Kurashiki]

So how much of you thinking Gamma is town is things the slot has actually done, and how much is you trying to play outguess the mod?

Because I don't think I've ever seen that work out the way you seem to be hoping it will.

[Akane Kurashiki]

so you agree that there's no case against me. okay.
I just worry that if my Akane/Reck crazytown theory is right then she'll come in with some excuse to pull a 180 and vote me, but I probably shouldn't be that paranoid.

Bwahahahaha!

...No, just kidding.

I'm down for Parama.

What happened to your supposed iso you were going to do on me?

Is there anyone you

wouldn't

lynch? Are you planning on putting any actual thoughts into this game or were you just gonna try to coast based on what happened D2?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'm afraid to paraphrase it any more closely because I don't want to get modkilled for quoting.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Seriously though, I really don't like how bulge says he was gonna iso me, VANISHES FOR LONG ENOUGH TO NEED A PROD, and then says NOTHING about it and votes someone else with no reasons given instead. Counterwagon d2 or no counterwagon, that gives me baaad vibes.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Seriously?

[Akane Kurashiki]

I don't have words for this stupidity. I've been sitting here trying to type things for like ten minutes now and there are just no words to fully encompass my anger except for maybe "ritual murder-suicide."

[Akane Kurashiki]

How about now? Now's good for me. You're clearly here, so it's good for you.

Stop fucking coasting and put out some goddamn content.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Better than nothing.

I want you to post content and original thoughts. I don't care if you iso me or not, but I'd rather lynch you than deal with a lurker at this point in the game. It's

especially

aggravating when I feel like I've put a lot of effort into this game and then here comes someone who just wants to lurk and sheep all game. So do things. Form opinions. Do things that will show you to be connected (or not connected) to players later. If you want to iso me, great. If you want to iso the person you're voting right now, hey, probably even better. Oh, and I want to know what you think of my posts about Jackel/Gamma. That too.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Don't judge them, they're all secretly goldfish. Their memories don't last any longer than that.

[Akane Kurashiki]

but on the bright side, you're delicious!

[Akane Kurashiki]

idek

trying to make myself hate the game less and parama is the only one who ever plays along also killing time until bulge comes back, 64 pages is already ridiculous for a micro so it's not like a few more posts is gonna hurt

Bins, you should be a goldfish too and then we can be a gaggle of glorious goldfish.

[Akane Kurashiki]

+townpoints for joining the goldfish cult

now go make that post (or two, or seven) I yelled at you about!

@Parama: aww, thanks :3

[Akane Kurashiki]

That's okay, there's still time til deadline. Also I cheered myself up by badly photoshopping a top hat and a cane onto my goldfish.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT TO ADD A MUSTACHE

...but it's fixed now

aaaand I'm done clogging the thread with fluffposts. For now.

[Akane Kurashiki]

See, at least with Gamma I can understand why he'd attack both of us. I've been on him all day for the same stuff, so has Parama. But he's already called me scum for other reasons. Oh, and we both want him dead, so I suspect there's no small amount of self-preservation involved. Otherwise it's just

awfully

convenient.

I don't understand why Reck would be on Parama's case and not mine. And this is probably something I should have brought up earlier, but I was busy yelling at Bulge and badly photoshopping a goldfish. Priorities, y'know?

@Reck: Do you see a difference between the way Parama is pushing on Gamma and the way I am?

and I guess @Gamma: same question.

[Akane Kurashiki]

How is that exactly?

[Akane Kurashiki]

If he's scum and the game doesn't end, that comment makes it more likely we're 1:1:4 right now. That really didn't sound like idle hyperbole.

Also, sudden thought: It's already been proven there are custom roles in this game, why not a scum power role that also shows up as vanilla to a role cop, almost like how a godfather works in a game with a cop? This is what I mean when I say it's dumb to rely on setup speculation -- even in a game with several confirmed variables, there could still be a curve ball.

I can't quote because I'm phone posting, but it's really disingenuous for gamma to claim everyone was pushing him and discredit my comment about convenience because of it. Even a newbie could tell there are different degrees of pushing going on here. A more advanced player could even read into who's more likely to be wishy washy with their vote and play to that. And I'm concerned that if we don't kill Gamma today there won't be enough support for it later and he's still the strongest scum candidate.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Reck, this has nothing to do with the current arguments but I want you to clarify something for me anyway. Bins seems to think you can use your ability more than once, but I was under the impression for some reason it was a 1-shot ability. Which is it?

[Akane Kurashiki]

multiple times, not just today IIRC. But today was 1611

the first time I just kind of ignored it but then she said it again and it made me go hmmmm

[Akane Kurashiki]

Well here's the thing, I can't see my vote changing today unless someone comes from the sky telling me Gamma is town. I wasn't seeing it from the NM iso, I

certainly

wasn't seeing it from the Jackel/Gamma iso, and I'm not seeing it in these posts. The only thing casting any doubt is setup spec, which as I've said before is stupid.

That said, I kind of want to finish my isos on Reck/Parama/Bulge, and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe if I'm feeling really masochistic I could even reread the whole thread but probably not. I'm hoping maybe I'll find something I didn't see before. But due to real life constraints there's no way I'm gonna have time for that toDay, earliest it could happen is probably Sunday. So if you do, in fact, have multiple shots, I actually like Bins' no lynch plan in 1611. It's only day 3 and we don't auto-lose until day 9 (which I can't see us getting to that point), scum apparently don't have a kill, so we have room for a no lynch. Bins could investigate Bulge and you could do your message thing to... probably Bins since she's pretty much seen as universally town. One person has to sit out on the door thing and then we have one less door to use on future nights, is the only problem.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Also why didn't you claim number of shots when we did massclaim? Seems like it would have been the time to do it.

[Akane Kurashiki]

No, it's completely relevant. It's relevant to setup spec, it's a relevant factor in whether or not no lynch is a good idea.

[Akane Kurashiki]

also hi bulge, please post contentful things now kthx

[Akane Kurashiki]

Why are you so stubborn asdfljkasdlfkj;

And it doesn't fucking confirm you, it makes the mod say "hey you got a message" and then the message says you're town but that's not confirmed or unconfirmed

you already admitted to that earlier, stop playing it up to be something it isn't

big fucking difference

[Akane Kurashiki]

WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT OH MY GOD

that's the second time now you've screwed someone up on trying to catch someone on a claim

[Akane Kurashiki]

How do we know you're a friendly neighbor other than that's what you're claiming? We fucking don't. So that whole argument is useless.

Claim your shots.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Mod: Force replace Reck, or replace me.

I will not tolerate personal attacks.

[Akane Kurashiki]

That's supposed to make it better?

[Akane Kurashiki]

@Mod: Ignore that previous @Mod

you're right about one thing, it's probably an ethical concern to ask a mod to pick someone to replace.

I'm going away for a while though.