Micro 444 molliegeddon [OVER]

[Varsoon]

Oh hey and what
I LOVE MOLLIE
My favorite mollie memory was when mollie was surprised with how I played skype mafia.

/conform

[Varsoon]

THOR is busy:


I plan on dedicating some time here.
This isn't bastard, right?
I mean, like, I can actually win this for my team, right?

[Varsoon]

Don't worry,
I'll be around.

[Varsoon]

I think that might be a hopeful, "If ETL and Varsoon are scum then we've lost already so they must be town for town to win" mindset?

[Varsoon]

I don't have anything to drink.
;_;

I'm also having company over tonight.
I also turned down a date because I was feeling really tired.
Wow.
Today is maybe not the best day.
But the first week of school/classes/semester is over so hoorah!

[Varsoon]

Glad to see DGB hasn't read the setup and is wondering if there's more than 2 scum/2factions.

Uhm, otherwise, this game went boom when I turned around for a second.

I should get both reads and booze.
Priority: Booze.

[Varsoon]

I dunno 'bout the utility of a gladiator
but that sounds legit.
Why no reading setups? As both aligns? What?

I agree that we should focus on actually lynching scum rather than lynching town for ABILITIES

p-edit: Whyfor?
Naked votes bug me.

[Varsoon]

I don't see how a lynch on you is better than a potential lynch on scum.
Walk me through this.

[Varsoon]

I actually don't know how to read Goofball's non-reading standpoint.
Gut says it's just careless town,
but then I'm second-guessing that it's scum trying to look like careless town.

Regardless, dude didn't read setup but did a little setup spec and didn't catch Kaboose's claim, or, at least, wants it to look like that.

I don't think that's lynchable, really, but maybe it should be.
Maybe we should just start lynching everyone who isn't up-to-snuff. Too much smokescreen for scum to hide in, too anti-town to make things move forward.
Hm.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: DGB
If you wanna go,
Let's go.

[Varsoon]

I think it's weak to say I'm scummy over my open wondering about your approach to the game.
If you say it's null that you don't read, then it's null.
But I think it's scummy to push me for wondering that.

[Varsoon]

Gonna explain that vote or ride the coat-tails of my lynch and get snuffed for it when I flip?

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:
Wait, eheh, I don't think DGB is scum.
Varsoon, you a stupid
VOTE: Flubber
for trying to force 1v1 TvT situations.

[Varsoon]

Flubber:
Do you think a 1v1 on D1 is a good use of the Gladiator power? If so, why?
What makes DL scum? Why the vote flip to me in light of the 1v1 situation over a push for DL??

[Varsoon]

So you don't vote your scum reads why?

[Varsoon]

And I'm keeping quiet on my dl read. But they're scum.

Okay man.

[Varsoon]

I think you're being awkward in weighing in about the 1v1, weighing in but trying to distance from it by saying your vote wont matter once a 1v1 starts, saying you have a hardcore DL read but not voting there or elaborating.
This all looks like the work of someone not wanting to commit and hoping the gladiator power gets wasted.

[Varsoon]

Oh, I didn't think we were just taking each other's words for things I thought that our play had to be evident of the truth of things.
I'm glad to know you're very committed to this scumread you are not voting for or making a case against.

[Varsoon]

I'm scum-reading Flubber for all the reasons posted in my last dozen posts.
I'm town-reading Goofball, so why vote there?

[Varsoon]

Final word: Varsoon's stance on Flubber makes no sense whatsoever and I hate it - he's calling out Flubber for voting him and not Drunken Lies when Flubber has openly stated he's scumreading both of them. It's ridiculous.

Except the part where, y'know, he seems really convicted on his Drunken Lies read but won't say why.
Yeah, that's not awkward in the least.
When confronted about it, he just got upset and pushed back instead of any elaboration.
How am I the only one who sees that?
You think it's ridiculous for me to question that? Literally how?
(FTR: Dont misrep

me

. I'm calling him out largely over pushing a 1v1 on me when he claims to have a more critical read in Drunken Lies.)

[Varsoon]

Simply voting me is cool, fine, whatever. Insisting and acting like there's going to be an inevitable 1v1 on me is a completely different and totally awkward play when you're holding cards to your chest on a scumread you've had all game.
I don't understand what Flubber could possibly get out of not actually building a case/making his points against Drunken Lies. Just insistently saying it's scum but not elaborating? Voting other people while STILL saying it's scum? Insisting on 1v1s with OTHER PEOPLE while STILL SAYING DRUNKEN LIES IS SCUM!?!

That's natural? That's town? What the fuck.

[Varsoon]

Just get gifs of the smilies, dawg.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon has been banned from all games for using more than 12 smilies in a single post.
Manipulating GiFs and image uploads in order to add more than 12 smilies in a post has been added to the enumerated list of banned behaviors, and a wiki article added to describe them.

[Varsoon]

On the real, though, I feel like actually sitting down and pacing out my reads and making an even more established case for Flubber, but I feel like no one gives a damn.
Like, no one listens to me, and so far everyone's just tossed aside what I had to say, as if it is unimportant. I guess advancing your own agenda is cool and all, but, fuck, I exist. I think my thoughts on the game matter. Damn.

I -really- don't understand the case for DGB or Lying Cat, so if someone can walk me through it and can explain things for more than meta-reading-reasons, that'd be swell.
Am I the only person who explains their votes so that when I am pushing a lynch it's clear -why- and the person themselves can actually respond?
It's like you all assume that you're gonna get scum with your first vote and you're crossing your arms and being like, "Dude is scum, got 'im. That's his scum-game right there."
That's not a worthwhile push. That's not a worthwhile vote. That gives everyone nothing to work with.

Uggggh.

[Varsoon]

I don't see how a lynch on you is better than a potential lynch on scum.
Walk me through this.

The response I got for this was 'gut'.
That's not
I don't
AGHH
Come on.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Konowa's vote on DGB is bad, but I don't see anyone engaging with Konowa at all over it.
People are just like, "Oh hey Konowa is tunneling DGB here, huh. Voting Konowa."
No Questions.
No Nothing.
LC's got a vote there that's just that. DrunkenLies is even, "Konowa a scum but LC is voting it so eeeeh."


IT'S LIKE BEING MARRIED WITHOUT EVEN PROPOSING
THERE IS NO ENGAGEMENT

Like, shit, I'm all about throwing down on Flubber but at least Flubber engages (which makes it more awkward when Flubber

doesn't

.)

[Varsoon]

It (Konowa) feels like a loaded wagon,
like an easy scum-ticket that's only not being ridden like a gravy-train to victory 'cus scum don't want to pile on at once should the joyride go tits-up.
I can't read the inability for it to fly off the rails into a lynch as scum-oriented hesitance over bussing a partner.
So there's town hesitance then, which is awkward, since most players have weighed in with a scummy verdict there.
It's as if people are all just looking at each other saying, "That's scum, right?" without actually questioning Konowa or engaging with the wagon
and scum don't wanna jump on over-eager.

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, Flubber's got no real defense for awkward and incongruous play, which pings me something hard.
I want to know

why

people are townreading Flubber. I'll even make it easy for you scumbags skimming my posts because LOLVARSOON:

@Mastin:

Why is Flubber town? Why are you reading Flubber as town? How do you interpret my interaction with Flubber (starting at post 295)? How do you feel about Flubber not sharing info on a scum-read on Drunken Lies (as it is incongruous with how Flubber has engaged with all other scumreads so far this game)?

@ETL/DrunkenLies:

Why is Flubber town (Your post earlier about meta? I don't care about that. I want to know why Flubber is town

in this game

)? Why are you reading Flubber as town? How do you interpret my interaction with Flubber (starting at post 295)? How do you feel about Flubber not sharing info on a scum-read on Drunken Lies (as it is incongruous with how Flubber has engaged with all other scumreads so far this game)?

@TSO:

Why is Flubber town (and how does 288 make Flubber town???)? Why are you reading Flubber as town? How do you interpret my interaction with Flubber (starting at post 295)? How do you feel about Flubber not sharing info on a scum-read on Drunken Lies (as it is incongruous with how Flubber has engaged with all other scumreads so far this game)?

@Lying Cat:

Why is Flubber town? Why are you reading Flubber as town? How do you interpret my interaction with Flubber (starting at post 295)? How do you feel about Flubber not sharing info on a scum-read on Drunken Lies (as it is incongruous with how Flubber has engaged with all other scumreads so far this game)?

[Varsoon]

EBWOP: The question at TSO should be directed at Lying Cat. (and how does 288 make Flubber town???)

[Varsoon]

Wanna hear MY tinfoil theory?
Flubber's scum and at least one of those four people defending him is his buddy.
I don't see Flubber's game here as being SO TOWN that four townies would all be defending him.
Even if he's town, I'm willing to wager dimes to donuts that at least one of the four people defending him is scum.
Yes, this is me declaring my effective scumpool.
Deal with it, nerds.


P-EDIT: Oh, I put value in Meta. I broke the game over Meta. If ANYONE has put value in meta, it was me.
That's how I also know meta is complete horseshit and any player worth their salt is meta-aware enough to beat people who rely on it to inform their reads.
Why is Flubber town

in this game

?

Like, fine, even, give the meta explanation for it too. I want to see that as well.
It's WAY TOO EASY to defend another player and when asked about it shrug and say, "Meta, boss."

[Varsoon]

It's better than one of eight, silly.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Varsoon am I awkward for not fitting into the scumhunting or not fitting into the clique?

Neither?
The way your handling your Drunken Lies read is awkward in relation to how you've handled all of your other reads this game.
It makes me wonder why it is different, but also a lot about artifice--like, are all your other reads bullshit but the Drunken one or is the Drunken one bullshit?
Even then, why be so weird about specifically that one?
It's not something town does.
Town doesn't explain their reads all but one and when asked about that one scum read they go
"Oh no I won't tell but he is definitely scum"

[Varsoon]

@mods- at what point does this game turn into a porno film?

when i take out the ass-less chaps.

or when jingle starts peeing on people.

one of those.

Read this as 'when jingle starts peeling an apple'
and thought of the implications of that
I need sleep.

[Varsoon]

Also, doesn't Hated/Loved typically disable in MYLO/LYLO situations or am I trippin' 'cus I saw it work that way once and now assume that's the standard.
Like if you're +1 vote to lynch or -1 vote to lynch and it's a LYLO/MYLO that goes away, or something?

[Varsoon]

@ETL/DrunkenLies:

Why is Flubber town (Your post earlier about meta? I don't care about that. I want to know why Flubber is town

in this game

)? Why are you reading Flubber as town? How do you interpret my interaction with Flubber (starting at post 295)? How do you feel about Flubber not sharing info on a scum-read on Drunken Lies (as it is incongruous with how Flubber has engaged with all other scumreads so far this game)?

*coughs into a fist*

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Thanks for answering muh stuff.
It bugs me when people ignore me.

I gotta sleep and stop F5'ing hoping for some shining ray of stuff to happen for me.
I'll get to your Theory post Kaboosey thing when I awaken.

[Varsoon]

To that end, and this is important, If Kaboose is alive tonight, and you are a vig, shoot Kaboose. If Kaboose is alive tomorrow, and you are a gladiator, do not use your power.

Onto other theory matters: The lynch. Today is a low information lynch. If we are going to eventually lynch kaboose, today is exactly the time to do it. Yes, we should get as much scumhunting done as possible, but lynching kaboose today is much more intelligent than waiting and lynching him tomorrow. First off, he's never going to get shot. That's just not going to happen. Second, if we lynch him today, we have no chance of accidentally outing PR's and we give the PR's we have a night to do their actions before a day of discussion and an attempt at lynching scum. Third, we will have more information to decide the lynch with (presumably someone's gonna die tonight) and be able to make a better decision tomorrow. I'd prefer to make the predetermined lynch while we have close to 0 information, not when we have more.

For those reasons I think we should lynch Kaboose today. Now, the caveat here is that Kaboose should be as active as possible, and we should treat the day exactly as any other day, only with a lack of hammer and claims. We want to use today to scumhunt, and only lynch Kaboose when we're done with that.

I think that we should lynch scum today and just, y'know, win.
Why did you wonder if there was an SK in the setup? Seraph Knight? Serial Killer? What?
Your second point wrt to lynching Kaboose today is actually really smart. This game is role madness as far as I am aware. We should optimize our PR use. Kaboose seems to be of the opinion that a lynch on himself is better than keeping himself alive which leads me to believe if Kaboose has any other abilities then he's weighed them against the weakness of being hated.
Your third point is solid, too.
My question is--does the Hated ability go away in MYLO/LYLO?
I assume it doesn't here, but it's important to check.

[Varsoon]

What roles punish players for being on your wagon when you are lynched?
In the horribly bastard back of my head, I'm wondering if you're some vengeful sort of role that kills their hammerer or something.
Some scumfucked thing.
Some jesterer-tarded monstrosity.

I doubt it though. I'd like to think otherwise.

[Varsoon]

Basically, the way it seems, DGB and Konowa look to be the other competing wagons, really.
Kaboose, you'd rather a lynch on you over chancing scum in the two of those?
I don't think a DGB lynch is going to happen today, myself.
So, really, if Kaboose thinks lynching Kaboose is a better play than lynching Konowa and hoping it's scum, then lynching Kaboose seems town-optimal granted Kaboose is not lying.
Although it makes not goddamn sense for a scum-related vengeful role to out themselves D1, so I'm pretty sure unless it's jesterer or some shit

[Varsoon]

I think it's fucking weird to just be like, "I'm town but we should lynch me now."
As a person who's made a few setups and modded a few games, roles like that should not exist in town. Yes, negative utility should exist sometimes to balance strong roles, but a role that, optimally, should be lynched D1 town-sided?
That's annoying.

[Varsoon]

From a setup-design perspective, it's shitty.

[Varsoon]

No offense if this is actually the case.

[Varsoon]

If it's such the case that it's optimal for a townie to advocate their own lynch on D1, to do so means you have to actively play against a town win condition for a statistically better chance for town winning, which is fucking backwards.

[Varsoon]

I'll talk to you about your scumread on me :3

[Varsoon]

Also, you silly trollop, you better be town-reading me. People insistent on bad scumreads of me are usually really easy to catch because the Slayer's Gambit is always on. The best way to escape my wrath is to town-read me.

P-EDIT:

TSO WHAT IS YOUR ALIGN?
TSO TELL US YOUR SHIT
OR DONT IF YOU ARE SCUM FUCK IT ALL

[Varsoon]

If the dayvig is real, nice one, Guyett.

If it's not, Varsoon remains on the table.

Wait so real dayvig or fake dayvig or?
D:

[Varsoon]

'Nice one' is admission of scum or
'Nice one' is sarcasm?

[Varsoon]

That dude is town as fuck.

[Varsoon]

-Engaged
-Votes follow logical progression
-Hydra interaction rings town
-I like the earlier reads list
-Answered me when asked stuff
-Actually was really town in his response wrt Flubber interaction (suggested helpful pro-town interaction rather than stirring up shit)
-Townshot on you, if faked, is exactly what I have done as town several times and I don't see scum motivation to fakedayvig there
-Townshot on you, if real, is town confirmation. :3

[Varsoon]

Hehehehe.

[Varsoon]

Why the hell would you pull a fake dayvig? Varsoon, you are a shit player.

I've got the giggles.



I don't need to go back to highlight stuff for you, TSO, you can ISO Drunken Lies and do that busywork on your own
I don't have to justify -anything- to you, man
Do you know why I don't have to justify shit?
I'm town.

[Varsoon]

Fake dayvig confirms Drunken Lies.

[Varsoon]

holy shit what if he's lying about the dayvig being fake and it's the site's first fake fake dayvig?

[Varsoon]

Holy shit that'd be hilarious

[Varsoon]

New plan:
Roll Town DayVig in a game
Dayvig someone
Reveal it was fake
People give you shit
Mod confirms it wasn't
???
Profit

[Varsoon]

Sorry I'm roiling with laughter

[Varsoon]

I actually own a monkey familiar named Zumbrafax who types everything that I tell him to.
If he communicates my messages poorly, that's on him.

I'm glad you think my points are laughable, though.
I don't need your approval.

[Varsoon]

OH MAYBE PERHAPS I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT META, EH?

[Varsoon]

Who cares how that player played in any other game but this one?
Who cares?

[Varsoon]

"Ooooh he has a history of blah blah blah"
I had a history of 100% claiming my alignment and trust telling.
Hey guess what
I'm town
Whoops.
Guess I should be banned from this game now because I claimed town in a game where I'm town amirite?

[Varsoon]

No, as of this point, on the realest of real planes I can engage you on here:
I think that mafia should be played solely on a game-to-game basis treating a game as if it exists within a vacuum.
Game-meta, Site-meta, and Player-meta are all unnecessary annoyances that do town more harm than good.

[Varsoon]

It's also against the spirit of the game, imo.
But this isn't the time or place to launch that discussion.
This is the place where I say I think DL is town and I stand by it and reasons?
I don't need reasons.
Scum are the ones with all the tricky, icky reasons, and their webs of bullshit five miles long.

[Varsoon]

And to think, we were so close to CooLDoG's smoking mafia game where I would backup mod and smoke the role-related substances/products.

[Varsoon]

y'know, fuck it, balls deep.
VOTE: Kaboose
Dude wants us to lynch him and I've asked like three goddamned times if Hated goes away in Mylo/Lylo and no one's given me an answer (unless I am blind) and actually this gives town the best night actions and bullshit etc whatever.

I'm gonna go watch Morgan Freeman tell me how the universe works.
I got a girl coming over tonight so like
I'll be around tomorrow and stuff to tell you how sexy it got.

[Varsoon]

For those of you inept or horribly Cabd: These are not crumbs, I am not bulletproof, do not read more than surface level of what I post, for serious, don't, you're just going to give yourself an aneurysm and I'm not worth your mental duress or distress or whatever other low mana black discard spell you can think of. Thoughtseize?

PEDIT:
UNVOTE:


HEY ACTUALLY:

@MOD: Yo, if there was a hypothetical Hated player in this game, would they lose their 'hated' status in MYLO/LYLO? Same question goes for a hypothetical 'loved' player.

[Varsoon]

not the sexy part. the voting kaboose part

<3

[Varsoon]

AND BY HATED AND LOVED I MEAN PEOPLE THAT REQUIRE ONE LESS OR ONE MORE VOTE TO BE LYNCHED THAN NORMAL KTHX

[Varsoon]

Oh, it looks like T S O didn't ISO me for that read and instead is saying I'm scummy for it.
Garbar.
Also, man, I'm not exactly the best fucking mafia player on-site. If my reads suck, it's probably 'cus they -do-.

[Varsoon]

The worst thing is that I don't really need to appeal to you, T S O. You asking me to 'score' brownie points and shit just looks like second-level scum trying to get first-level town to jump up at being town and then be like, "LOOK AT HOW VARSOON WANTS TO APPEASE PEOPLE AND EARN TOWNPOINTS LOL SUCH SCUM"
Basically, you're conf-biased and so no matter what I do, I can bet you dimes to donuts that you'll scumpaint it because you

want

to read me as scum.
In the end, it becomes a waste of time for me to play to your tune, but, y'know, fuck it. Here goes:

-Engaged

DL is actively interacting with other players and his reads seem to be an organic response to both how other people have responded to him and how they've treated the game. He asks questions, he makes plays, and he is willing to wall up against your ass. That's called engagement. It's not necessarily town and can be very null, but in this case I don't see anything that rings as false or forced.

-Votes follow logical progression

Explained in part above. His first vote/suggested vote on Kaboose is town-oriented given Kaboose's claim and ask for votes. His Konowa vote comes from Konowa playing questionable and vague-like and the hesitance to vote there because of his read on LC rings true to me. The vote on you comes out of what seems to be a mixture of general frustration as well as you poorly handling your responses to him, insulting him, and misappropriating what he's written.

-Hydra interaction rings town

He was very straightforward about the ETL half being more engaged and the other side being kinda meh. If I rolled scum, I'd be excited as fuck as both ends of the hydra. The general apologetic stance and clear investigative interest from ETL with Guyett weighing in from time to time (it seems) feels like two town players engaging on different levels and being straightforward about that rather than scum players in a hydra trying to confuse/disorient town while trying to seem town. It feels organic. It -rings- town.

-I like the earlier reads list

DGB and Kaboose reads are spot-on and explained via claim. He didn't doubt-out the claims, and his 'buying' them feels truthful. His Flubber read didn't make sense to me originally but re:his conversation with me about how Flubber engages the game fits really well in regards to his town-Flubber read. It feels really sensible and, so, if Flubber is scum then he's either got DL fooled easily or they are partners that have good reasons for townreading the other. The Mastin read is weak, but the read on me feels quite explained and sensible. The honesty in his scum reads comes from both his interaction with those players as well as what was shared there. The fact he's willing to be dedicated to his town reads and kinda hesitant of his scum reads in places feels like town trying to sort shit out a lot more than scum being opportunistic, mostly because I can see the natural progression and trajectory informing those reads up to that point.

-Answered me when asked stuff

This shit is important. It means he's being game-aware rather than just advancing an agenda and tunneling on that.

-Actually was really town in his response wrt Flubber interaction (suggested helpful pro-town interaction rather than stirring up shit)

This is fucking self-evident. His explanation reads to me as town understanding Flubber's play, coming from a very sensible place wrt to earlier Flubber reads from him, and paints a whole picture of a townie trying to justify both his town read while giving thoughtful ways for others to see Flubber's play as town. He could have very well turned the tables and said I was scum for not understanding Flubber/pushing Flubber, but he did not. This shows that he's not quick to scumpaint people. That's town to me.

-Townshot on you, if faked, is exactly what I have done as town several times and I don't see scum motivation to fakedayvig there

The fact that you (I think) tried to insist he does that as scum when he's done it as both aligns is fucked up. Also, the way it was played through was handled in a way to try to get you to commit to info. That's town. He wasn't trying to make you scramble or scumslip, imo.

-Townshot on you, if real, is town confirmation. :3

Mollie actually said she's been in more games with scum day-shots than town ones, so maybe I'm just meta-biased on this. Regardless, this is a non-point now.

There you go, man.
Happy?
It doesn't solve shit.
You'll still say my DL read a shit and I'm scummy.

[Varsoon]

Like, regardless of your align, TSO, you want to read me as scum (or at least that's how it feels to me), so appealing to you and playing to your tune and shit is a waste of effort. I'd rather focus my energy and posts into actual scum-hunting and shit.

That said, I've thought it over and given mods' reply, Kaboose lynch is best lynch unless we want to face shit down the road.
VOTE: Kaboose

[Varsoon]

That took me fucking 20 minutes, man.
That's 20 minutes of spending time justifying myself to your ass.
I don't -need- to do that. That doesn't forward gamestate at all. Sure, maybe you'll read me as town for it, but I don't give a fuck what you read me as so long as the lynches hit scum.

[Varsoon]

TSO, I figure you're likely third-level town trying to trick second-level scum with that strat, but Occam's Razor would beg to differ and your play-by-play is very first level oriented, so I've got to figure you can't be more than second-level with that means of engagement.

[Varsoon]

Uggggghghhhh
It'll take all this time and effort and the stuff -is- there.
Why can't -you- dig his ISO and be like, "Oh, Varsoon isn't full of shit, huh."
Why do I have to do it?
Humrph.
I'll be back with stupid links for dumb things that don't matter. Kaboose lynch is today's best lynch anyway (outside of 100% scum lynch).

[Varsoon]

In the end, it becomes a waste of time for me to play to your tune, but, y'know, fuck it. Here goes:

-Engaged

DL is actively interacting with other players and his reads seem to be an organic response to both how other people have responded to him and how they've treated the game. He asks questions, he makes plays, and he is willing to wall up against your ass. That's called engagement. It's not necessarily town and can be very null, but in this case I don't see anything that rings as false or forced.

-Votes follow logical progression

Explained in part above. His first vote/suggested vote on Kaboose is town-oriented given Kaboose's claim and ask for votes. His Konowa vote comes from Konowa playing questionable and vague-like and the hesitance to vote there because of his read on LC rings true to me. The vote on you comes out of what seems to be a mixture of general frustration as well as you poorly handling your responses to him, insulting him, and misappropriating what he's written. ISO LINKS: 120 for Kaboose vote, gets further explained in 209 for why he moves past it. Konowa vote is in 407 and grows out of 315. Vote on LC, which I didn't talk about is also informed by interactions like those around 201 and 340. Vote on you makes sense given your own back-and-forth, especially around 554.

-Hydra interaction rings town

He was very straightforward about the ETL half being more engaged and the other side being kinda meh. If I rolled scum, I'd be excited as fuck as both ends of the hydra. The general apologetic stance and clear investigative interest from ETL with Guyett weighing in from time to time (it seems) feels like two town players engaging on different levels and being straightforward about that rather than scum players in a hydra trying to confuse/disorient town while trying to seem town. It feels organic. It -rings- town. 315 and 200, and I swear there's one where he says Guyett doesn't feel to engaged but I can't find it and may be trippin and thinking of another hydra in this game

-I like the earlier reads list

DGB and Kaboose reads are spot-on and explained via claim. He didn't doubt-out the claims, and his 'buying' them feels truthful. His Flubber read didn't make sense to me originally but re:his conversation with me about how Flubber engages the game fits really well in regards to his town-Flubber read. 422 and 317, respectively It feels really sensible and, so, if Flubber is scum then he's either got DL fooled easily or they are partners that have good reasons for townreading the other. The Mastin read is weak, but the read on me feels quite explained and sensible. The honesty in his scum reads comes from both his interaction with those players as well as what was shared there. The fact he's willing to be dedicated to his town reads and kinda hesitant of his scum reads in places feels like town trying to sort shit out a lot more than scum being opportunistic, mostly because I can see the natural progression and trajectory informing those reads up to that point.

-Answered me when asked stuff

This shit is important. It means he's being game-aware rather than just advancing an agenda and tunneling on that.

-Actually was really town in his response wrt Flubber interaction (suggested helpful pro-town interaction rather than stirring up shit)

This is fucking self-evident. His explanation reads to me as town understanding Flubber's play, coming from a very sensible place wrt to earlier Flubber reads from him, and paints a whole picture of a townie trying to justify both his town read while giving thoughtful ways for others to see Flubber's play as town. He could have very well turned the tables and said I was scum for not understanding Flubber/pushing Flubber, but he did not. This shows that he's not quick to scumpaint people. That's town to me.

-Townshot on you, if faked, is exactly what I have done as town several times and I don't see scum motivation to fakedayvig there

The fact that

you (I think)

Lying Cat

tried to insist he does that as scum when he's done it as both aligns is fucked up. Also, the way it was played through was handled in a way to try to get you to commit to info. That's town. He wasn't trying to make you scramble or scumslip, imo.

-Townshot on you, if real, is town confirmation. :3

Mollie actually said she's been in more games with scum day-shots than town ones, so maybe I'm just meta-biased on this. Regardless, this is a non-point now.

Ugh-mc-gug, this is more than 3 minutes, I'm so blah done, fuck this, it's there, braah.

[Varsoon]

That was twelve minutes! Four times three!
Most the posts I link there actually fit for the later stuff too, btw.

@Lying Cat: It bugs me a lot that you said Guyett pulls fake dayvig as -scum- rather than just saying fake dayvig as -any alignment-.
I guess I get that you guys have been butting heads for like the last ~14 pages of the game but it really seems like that was an attempt to get folks to side with you hardcore. I dunno. :/
I figure people can sort me out if I just play straightforward. I feel like having to justify stuff and 'cover tracks' is the sort of shit scum needs to do. All I need to do is find scum. I guess, in that case, I scumhunt rather than townhunt? Whatever, either way, I don't really like having to justify myself to people. I feel like, as town, my actions are justified because I am town, you know? Sure, other people can't see that, but no amount of typing up justification sets me apart from scum in their eyes, I feel. So it's wasteful.

[Varsoon]

Daymurder: AK

Die you scum fuck

Guyett, in an Antihero game that I HAVE ALREADY LINKED TO IN THIS GAME, faking a daykill as scum.

Varsoon, STFU.

This doesn't really seem to say "Guyett does it as scum, too" nearly as much as it's like, "Here's him doing it as scum. I linked this before. He does this as scum. Varsoon, shut the fuck up about faking dayvig's being a town thing."

But eh
Rhetoric!

[Varsoon]

T S O, you're a pretty cool guy, actual-factual.

[Varsoon]

I think the idea was:
Lynching Kaboose gives us maximum use of our PRs.
Lynching Kaboose early denies scum info for their kill.
Lynching Kaboose keeps us from getting bent over as LYLO approaches.

[Varsoon]

I'm glad we've got that clear, man.
I don't really know what your points against ETL are, though.

[Varsoon]

I'm not sold enough on any of my reads to take that chance.
I'm not sold at all on any else's scumreads of others, too. :/

[Varsoon]

I think you're scumhuntin' just fine, LC.

[Varsoon]

What question? Mod already confirmed non-normal roles and couldn't comment on if hypothetical hated would work the way it usually does in games.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

I don't wanna be prodded, but
I really don't have much to add.
I still think Konowa is the best option regardless of other claims, which may or may not be manufactured to influence the Konowa lynch.
If we're really that gimped power-wise, I'm sure we have strong roles like SK or Investigates or something unclaimed and I'd like to keep it that way.
Also, from balance perspective, even if we don't have too much power/have negative utility, surely scum have some negative utility too?

[Varsoon]

;_;
Even me, Kay-Bee?

[Varsoon]

All you dummies voting DL need to step the fuck off.

we lynchin kayB.

[Varsoon]

I think it's fucked that someone would push you up over claim shit.
Like, fuck that.
Just lynch people.

[Varsoon]

Waiting for what?
You -really- think DL is scum?
Like, really?
Because I don't understand any of the votes on him.
Yours makes the most sense, but even then, I just see you as seeing him wrong.
'cus I see how you see me wrong,
so I understand your sideways perspective.

I think that regardless of regards, We lynch Kaboose today.
No one claims anything.
No one softs anything.
Fuck that.

[Varsoon]

You think Konowa is lurking or just absent, LieCat?

[Varsoon]

See now you're doing that thing I said you'd do, T S O.
I mean, its not to me, but it doesn't make it less shitty.

[Varsoon]

Like, regardless of your align, TSO, you want to read me as scum (or at least that's how it feels to me), so appealing to you and playing to your tune and shit is a waste of effort. I'd rather focus my energy and posts into actual scum-hunting and shit.

[Varsoon]

Like, you calling someone out for something, then when they justify themselves, you say they're just trying to earn towncred by justifying themselves.

[Varsoon]

No, I mean like you told Mastin that Mastin wasn't scumreading ETL and then Mastin said she was and then when she went and showed you, you said she was trying to earn towncredit by doing that.
Kind of like when you said my read on ETL was shitty and I had to show where I was getting it from and then when I went and showed you, I told you that you better not say I'm just doing it for towncredit pre-emptively, so you were just like 'okay cool'.
Does that make sense?

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Konowa

I'm checking out.

[Varsoon]

I'd MUCH RATHER a Konowa lynch over Drunken.

[Varsoon]

We have a week to sort things out.
:l

[Varsoon]

Kono glad seems to be consensus.

[Varsoon]

Do what you want but from claims it'll apparently be wonky anyway.

[Varsoon]

Woooo~

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Konowa
I'm pretty worn out.
Like, IRL.

[Varsoon]

Oh, hey, I said that like 20 pages ago.
I don't think we could leverage a lynch on Flubber today, though.

[Varsoon]

I mostly call Flubber out for awkward and incongruous play,
but yeah, there's not really much scum-hunting and so on going on either.
It bothered me at the time because so many people were very adamant about their town-reads on flubber and did not give me the time of day.
Starts around post 295.

[Varsoon]

I'm here.
I don't think DGB is scum.
Gonna wait for that VC before knowing if the gladiate is a lie or not.

[Varsoon]

VC?

[Varsoon]

Man, now we're talkin' about butt stuff?
I don't see how DGB has been scummy, except maybe in Kaboose's obstinance of wanting to be lynched.

[Varsoon]

So, wait, no lynch then?
We throw away the gladiate, assume TvT?
I dunno 'bout that.

[Varsoon]

I wanna lynch Konowa-slot.
Thor's being surprisingly chill.
Guess it's the only way to be?

@KB: I dunno, I feel like DGB was interacting pretty organically given the way we were discussing non-gladiate options.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, man, sorry, I just woke up.
KaBooose. KB. I dunno. Sorry.

[Varsoon]

I'd like a lynch on scum.
Thor, what do you think of DGB?

[Varsoon]

I'm leaning town on DGB mostly for the role, but also because of how play was handled. Didn't feel like scum trying to game shit, but I guess forcing a gladiate on anyone but Kaboose is weird, but eh? I dunno what to believe.
I feel like your slot is scum, thor. Konowa was absent and weird and dodgy and now it's getting Gladiated so eh.
If I have to choose between the two, it's you.

[Varsoon]

But that's still a scum win off 2 town mislynches, and scum could afford a missed night shot.
This is bad game design.

Which is why I feel like town's got some cray cray power, scum is handlocked on killing strength, or not everyone claimed is being 100% truthful.

[Varsoon]

I'll just get into the flow when I get back home around 3ish and play catchup. Somehow.

Please don't be Scum DGB, that might break my heart.

I think I remember thinking DBG was Scum before I went to work?

Vote: DrippingGoofball

THIS IS WEIRD.

[Varsoon]

I'll just get into the flow when I get back home around 3ish and play catchup. Somehow.

Please don't be Scum DGB, that might break my heart.

I think I remember thinking DBG was Scum before I went to work?

Vote: DrippingGoofball

THIS IS WEIRD.

[Varsoon]

It reeks of someone not really wanting to commit and settled on a DGB read without ever having to do any work for it.
Weird.

[Varsoon]

I don't think the replace out was weird, but the engagement/push on DGB sure was.

[Varsoon]

If you're perma-hated as you claim, lynching anyone but you is silly unless we have a for-sure scum confirm.
On that note, the DGB gladiate is fucking miserable.
That said, I think I was pretty much the only one giving your claim/the need to cut the loss of liability seriously. I think, at best, others were trying to push for getting some more D1 info from wagons and pushes, but, eh, the Gladiate invalidates.

Which makes me conflicted, because independent of that shit, I'm town-reading DGB and scum-reading Thornowa.

So I really don't know what the fuck to do.
I'm worried we're in a shithole of a situation where Kaboose is perma-hated and DGB vs Thor is TvT.
Which, if we do have the suicidal D2, we're just fucked.
Like, serious, straight-faced, fucked.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: DGB

Either he's scum or we lose.

[Varsoon]

I love how people can't fathom that I realized, "Oh, wait, the lynch on Kaboose is best lynch for D1, why the fuck would DGB gladiate when no one was asking for that?"
And then decided to vote DGB?

It's whatever, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm freaking the fuck out.
UNVOTE:

I don't want any part on this nonsense.

@LyingCat: Oh, I thought that having Kaboose going into D3 means we lose game if we hit no scum whereas lyinching Kaboose would enable us to have a D3 LYLO rather than a D2 one. I guess I'm wrong on that.
What makes you so sure of your konowa/thor read, though?

[Varsoon]

POE
EDGAR
ALLAN

[Varsoon]

I get where Kaboose is coming from, but with how Lying Cat explained it, I don't really hold the gladiate against DGB so much anymore.
Thor's points make sense, but I suppose he's got to try to make sense of everything or he dies. He, at least, needs to play differently from the Konowa slot regardless of alignment, as Konowa was an easy-contender for lynch. Ergo, Thor's play strikes me as null.
If I had to take a pick between the two right now, then I'd pick Thor for lynch.

Sorry if my contributions haven't been golden.

[Varsoon]

I also said...

It's whatever, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm freaking the fuck out.
UNVOTE:
I don't want any part on this nonsense.

And then Thor and DGB and others posted a bunch.
That was more than a page ago, too.

I never really wanted a god damn Thor/Konowa or DGB wagon in the first place, I wanted Flubber and then I wanted Kaboose.
Gladiate is a shitty ability that forces me to put votes on players I don't have good reads on.

[Varsoon]

It's like I've been forced to pick between Strawberry Ice-cream and Vanilla. I don't have a strong opinion of either. Why couldn't it be an easy choice, like between Chocolate and, I dunno, Oatmeal Raisin?

[Varsoon]

Words hurt, KB.
It's not like your ideas are so crazy that agreeing with them is buddying.


@DL: I don't know who eats oatmeal raisin ice cream but if they exist, fuck them.
I don't believe in it. If I'm forced to vote, then I'd pick Thor, but I don't want to.

[Varsoon]

I'm cool with being investi-cleared. Having conf-town Varsoon around would be nice. I'd probably slack off, though.

As for a serious list:
Flubber
DGB
TSO

[Varsoon]

New list?

Also, why all the claiming? Euch, claims are the worst.

LIST:
DGB
TSO
KABOOSE

Why is there no way you're checking Flubber?

[Varsoon]

Like, what's the point of the lists if you just veto anyone you don't want to check.
Fucking check who you want to check.
If you want reads lists from everyone, this isn't really the way to do it, especially since my choices are both people I'd like to be confirmed town and people I want investigoots on.

[Varsoon]

Why the fuck do I need to claim?
What purpose does it serve?

[Varsoon]

Oh, just because everyone else is so quick to put their power on the board or shit themselves and inform the NK, I should too?
I fucking hate claims.
Claims are the scum of this site.
They're easy-as-fuck to fake, they always trick town, and they're the lamest goddamn thing.
They're something that can't be proven until the claimer dies and give unfair advantage because people are stupid.
I think play should be judged over claims. Just because someone rolls cop, that doesn't mean they get immunity because of it. Just because some dickbag claims cop, his word shouldn't be some golden law to follow.
Claims are for rubes and noobs and they're garbage.
You want me to claim?
So you can break the game? What if -you're- scum? That's awfully fucking helpful, isn't it?
Figure out the balance of the game? Another convenience if you're scum and not-so-fucking-helpful if you're town.
If I'm scum, then my claim incriminates me? Only if you spin it that way, you shitlord.
I can't stand claims, I can't stand how people manipulate claims, I can't stand how people handle claims at all. It's all garbage. It's faux-power. It's bullshit.

Fuck you.
Investigate me if you think I'm scum for it, but I'd rather keep my goddamn role hidden.

[Varsoon]

OKAY, THEN SHOW ME YOUR MAGIC WHERE SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, MY CLAIM MAGICALLY JUST CATCHES SCUM AND IS THE BEST THING EVER, RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, INFORMS THE NK, LETS SCUM KNOW LITERALLY ALL THE FUCKING INFO, AND DOESN'T HELP TOWN AT ALL.

I'M JAILKEEPER.
I USED MY ABILITY ON DRUNKEN LIES LAST NIGHT SO THAT THEY'D MAKE IT TO TODAY.

OH HEY LOOK THERE'S NO WAY TO CONFIRM THAT, GUESS IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT CLAIM WAS FUCKING USELESS FOR TOWN, HUH?

[Varsoon]

Claims are shit.

[Varsoon]

Fuck your browbeating 'no town utility in refusing the claim'.
Fuck that nonsense.

[Varsoon]

My new list is gonna be:
LC
DGB
TSO

[Varsoon]

Oh, by 'game the setup', you mean push mislynches without actual information, just bullshit?
Kay.

[Varsoon]

THERES NO WAY THIS SETUP HAS SO MANY X ROLES

First of all, it's closed. We could all have a protective role. You don't fucking know, so don't act like some sort of setup mastermind.

SO THEREFORE SOMEONE HAS TO BE LYING

Way to warp non-information (lolclaims) into worthless pushes on people.
This is why I fucking hate claims. It allows people leeway to make a high-power push on players over what is literally arbitrary, easily manipulated garbage.
I signed up to play a game of rhetoric, not one where everyone shits on a plate and then someone decides who has the stinkiest shit.

[Varsoon]

I'm so done.
Lynch me if that makes me scum,
whatever.

[Varsoon]

etl needs to dayaction varsoon because lc and varsoon cannot co-exist imo

Or we can and you're just trying to force a stupid 1v1 because LOLCLAIMS

I fucking hate claims.

[Varsoon]

Did I say I was a Jailkeeper? Clearly, I meant to say I was a seraph-knight back-up cop, odd night Jailkeeper.
Like, seriously, what the fuck.
Furthermore, why the fuck would I claim something incriminating when literally all the other claims were on the table?
People on this site never fucking -think-, you just go with the simplest, stupidest options, time after time.

[Varsoon]

I'm not ridiculous--ridiculous people are the ones acting like claims in a role madness game (or any game that's not open setup) have some sort of value to them.
It bugs me.
You probably would like me to shut up because I'm calling you out on your bullshit, TSO.

[Varsoon]

Like, I'm gonna try to chill out, but it really pisses me off when players try to get away with
-Forcing claims
-Acting like claims have any power in a closed setup
-Basing play off of claims

It's a setup for failure.

I also can't stand when people tell me to shut up.
It's a forum game. I should be able to contribute my thoughts and ideas. I'm sorry that they're at odds with yours. You don't have to be a suffocating jerk about it, though.

P-EDIT:
I had Kaboose there because I don't want to clear Kaboose based off his claim.
:l

[Varsoon]

Somebody explain how Flubber's action failed.

Claims are stupid and people are lying.
Oho, it's that easy.

[Varsoon]

So I'm not allowed to be upset over things and voice that?
Got it. I'll just humbly comply with whatever anyone does.
Also, telling someone to replace out is poor form.

So, you're claiming that someone used a night action that gave you a night action that you got to use in the same night, and that you also get to confirm another person as town in a setup that already has multiple claimed/flipped investigative roles?
I don't really follow.

[Varsoon]

-You received an 'invention'? (I assume it's a one-shot use power that can be sent to you during night phase?)
-Said invention is very protown?
-You were able to use that invention the same night you received it
-You knew the invention had to have been used before the night started? What? Or do you mean the person had to send it to you during day phase? I don't understand.

So you're claiming that you, TSO, and Flubber are now confirmed town?

Okay.

[Varsoon]

My issue is that there's no way this clears you, so acting like it does is really problematic.
Furthermore, I don't see how it clears TSO.
Even -furthermore-, I don't see how this clears Flubber.

But okay.

[Varsoon]

Hey, KB, check the place where I said my picks don't have to do with my scum-reads. :3

[Varsoon]

Doesn't DL die if DL hits scum? Euch. I guess I'd prefer two soft-confirmed town and a caught scum over a one-for-one trade?

Mastin's weird. I don't know if mastin's saying stuff I agree with because no one else is or what. I was sort of hoping other people could sort mastin out so I didn't have to decipher whatever is going on with that slot.
As for claimed aesthetic, eh. Okay?

[Varsoon]

How's it convenient?
If mastin isn't dead and we're headed to LYLO, we lynch it.
EZ PZ?

[Varsoon]

Shut the fuck up.

Nope.


@DL: Why not just try it on Mastin, since your shot won't be used up if the aesthetic claim is true? Then you can try it on someone else? /shrugs.

[Varsoon]

But why would he claim ascetic after all the claims except, like, mine were on the table?
Like, why even crumb out and claim ascetic, especially given that it's so incriminating?

[Varsoon]

Like, wouldn't the better scum play be to bait all those actions without claiming ascetic?
I don't recall mastin really baiting investigates and actions and stuff.

[Varsoon]

Wouldn't a better fake-claim for scum-aesthetic be something like commuter or something?
I don't know.
Part of why I hate claims is because of this kind of thing.
I think, if people are scumreading mastin independent of claim nonsense, then we lynch mastin. The flip clears up any confusion over claim anyway, right?

You can check me if ya like.

[Varsoon]

Well, if you're planning on hitting scum with the cop, then I'm not your man.
If you wanna bust the cop on me to clear up confusion and junk, that's cool, though.
I don't want you to die. You're one of the few agreeable people I feel like I can pow-wow with in this game.

[Varsoon]

I've been in a real funk lately, and thing have been cray. I'm also trying to approach the game a bit differently. I just totally botched a towngame over in Diamond Shreddies, which blows.
Anyway, take care.

[Varsoon]

I stopped reading varsoons walls he's just a jailkeeper right?

Nah he's probscum

Flubber: "What's Varsoon's deal? I stopped reading."
LC: "Lol don't read the game, Varsoon's probscum."

Yeah Flubber, lol, don't play the game, just sheep LC, it'll be good lol
why think at all?

[Varsoon]

I really can't stand Lying Cat trying to 'game the setup' and blatantly rolefishing and then straight up telling people to shut the fuck up when they disagree with him.
T S O bothers me, but that's more due to standoffishness over play.
DGB hasn't posted anything I can even recall today. Laying low after gladiating a powerful flipped town PR?
Mastin looks scummy as shit but is the only person who's said anything I agree with today other than Drunken Lies.
Kaboose needs to start putting in input since KB is pretty much treated like an IC now.
Flubber hasn't been doing anything either, and the weird 'clear' and arguable-coaching/interaction on LC's side doesn't help the way I feel about them.

[Varsoon]

Long story short:
I guess we're waiting for DL to do something with the claimed weak daycop.
Ignoring all that other bullshit, my vote is almost certainly between Flubber and Lying Cat.

[Varsoon]

Told you that you should have used it on me, silly.
I'm good for a lynch on Mastin, because I can't tell what the fuck Mastin is on.
I guess we'll have to take DL's word on it. I mean, it could just be a fuckin' ruse.
I'm pretty much useless this game anyway, so if a Lynch on me helps us win, I'm for it.

[Varsoon]

Doing stuff like checking when the mod was on?
Lame.


@DL: I'd rather be confirmed than LC. Guess I'm cynical like that.

[Varsoon]

My hesitation on Mastin is confusion on the claim. Why would scum claim something so incriminating?
Doesn't make sense to me.
But then again, Mastin just doesn't make sense to me.
VOTE: Mastin

[Varsoon]

Guess we'll figure out soon?

[Varsoon]

Like I said, commuter or bus-driver or something, I'unno, more -town-, would be a much better fake-claim.
With LC cleared, my only other decent scumread is Flubber and no one wants to wagon that.
I'm super skeptical of pretty much everyone, though. Especially DGB and Kaboose. I don't know what to feel about their claims/play.

[Varsoon]

VC?

[Varsoon]

I accept your love, but you should probably explain your vote a bit more.

[Varsoon]

First off, I don't have any god damn buddies. Stop trying to line up bullshit associative nonsense.
Second of all, I'm voting mastin right now. I wouldn't be doing that shit if I was his buddy.
I know full well that I'm not making it to LYLO if this town has any sense in them. A vote for me is a fucking easy-peasy vote. My claim is shitty, apparently (thanks LC!), and my play hasn't been stellar. Even though, y'know, I was the sole reason we did a fucking no lynch on D1 instead of mislynching Thor. Oh wait. You didn't fucking consider any of that, did you? Your push on my is garbage.
VOTE: DGB
Even though you don't have a gladiate, I'd be fine 1v1'ing your ass.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, fuck me, right?

[Varsoon]

LOL SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE A CASE ON VARSOON SO THAT I CAN JUSTIFY BEING ON THIS WAGON, K?
I DONT LIKE DOING WORK
MAKE THE LYNCH HAPPEN FOR ME

[Varsoon]

lol

Nice admission to the fact.

I'm tired of games where good players coast on easy reads.

[Varsoon]

Jailkeeper is literally the perfect scum role this game. Ascetic also fits that, but Varsoon can fuck with people like me at night, whereas mastin can't.

Then why the fuck would scum claim it when literally every other claim is on the table.

You just don't think, do you?
No one claimed rolecop--it's not like we can't lie with our claims.
I can't stand how you're willing to make a push based off of something so banal.


I love how other people's problems with me boil down to "Oh, I don't liiiike him."

You guys could, y'know, put in effort. Seeing everyone voting for lackluster and thoughtless reasons bugs me for a few reasons.
Most of all, it means that no matter what I do, no matter what cases I make, because I'm coming from a place of actually trying to play the game rather than lazily engaging at the lowest possible level of thought, all my effort is for moot.

[Varsoon]

Go for it.
If I need to be lynched for you guys to get your shit together and actually play this game, so be it.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, that's what I figure.
Even if I lay out everything for you in an easy way, you'll just say I'm trying to convince you.
There's too much notion of bias, because you're already settled into the comfortable zone of calling me scum.
You can't call these other players scum--that'd be too hard and you'd have an uphill battle.
With me, though, it's easy peasy, and it puts me in a shitty position where I can't do dick-all.

[Varsoon]

10/10
Best retorts.
Professional, champs.

[Varsoon]

Oh, the game came back.
Hi guys.

[Varsoon]

So long as Kaboose can't be turbo-lynched tomorrow, I guess I'm fine with that.
I'm not adding much to this game. :/

[Varsoon]

To be honest, if you keep me around, I'll probably fuck up and Jailkeep the wrong person anyway.

[Varsoon]

It also bugs me that people are acting like my Jailkeeper claim is legit but then also pretending that Drunken Lies/ETL isn't fucking cleared because of it.

[Varsoon]

I clear ETL,
ETL clears LC,
LC supposedly clears Flubber and TSO.

Only leaves a pool of DGB, Kaboose, and Mastin-slot.

[Varsoon]

How does jailkeeping me clear me?

At least from the kill--for some reason I was blanking out and not realizing that there's more than 1 scum here. Still, you couldn't have committed a kill because I JK'd you, does that make sense?

VOTE: Mastin

This should be dead.

[Varsoon]

We've got the game in the bag regardless of the flip, IMO.

[Varsoon]

Jailkept ETL again.
No way the slot is scum now.

[Varsoon]

Oh, look, I used my commute action on LC and LC died. How convenient, Varsoon.

How is that convenient at all?

You're pushing a turbolynch too.

Why think at all, right? Everyone should just not communicate or spend time figuring out the game, you're right.

[Varsoon]

If Varsoon's telling the truth ETL is also clear, leaving Flubber and Kaboose.

But he's not, is he?

This weird distance/setting up.
PEDIT: I'm not doing your work for you. I've already done plenty to point out how Flubber is scum on D1, but no one gave a shit and apparently LC cleared him.

Like, are you trying to say that my jailkeep was on LC and that, somehow, it kept you from commuting him but let hypothetical scum-varsoon kill him?
Whut?

[Varsoon]

I mean, Jailkeeper/Roleblocker -would- happen to fit the remaining Mafia PR perfectly, but according to you you're town, so...

Why would I claim something incriminating if I was actually scum?
Unless you're trying to insist that scum can't fake-claim this game (evidence maybe a la mastin) but even in that case, your hypothetical about me jailkeeping LC doesn't fucking work since kills don't hit jailkept targets.

[Varsoon]

You're just going to write off literally anything I write anyway. You're so goddamn confbiased it's impossible to make sense to you.

I'm not playing dumb, I'm trying to comprehend what the hell is going through your mind.

@Kaboose: Because I feel like ETL is most valuable in terms of actual play rather than imagined role bullshit. Furthermore, I wanted to be sure I could trust ETL and actually clear them rather than the semi-clear I had the other night. I figured that if scum was going to make a kill, it'd be on someone with a strong town-voice and they might also kill ETL on the basis that it's unlikely to protect the same target night after night.

P-EDIT: I don'y understand where you're getting the idea that scum also has a jailkeeper/roleblocker. There's plenty of ways your role, and even mine, could have failed.
Poor balance would be a setup where a massclaim instantly incriminates EXACTLY the number of people town can get away with lynching and not losing. Oh wait! That's what's been proposed!

[Varsoon]

Regardless, I'm exasperated and I need time to mull over the game anyway.
Bottom line: You used your commute on Lying Cat, right?

I've got class to attend, but I should be around tonight.

[Varsoon]

So we have a flipped Bodyguard
flipped Investigate JOAT,
Claimed Commute,
Claimed Jailkeep (which I can confirm to myself),
Claimed Inventor (that can grant Bulletproof?).

If you want to talk balance, I don't know that scum aesthetic really counters those out.
:l

[Varsoon]

Especially considering we've had consistent deaths each night.
Do you think maybe the scum is strongman, just to fuck with us?

Eeeh
I'll be back in a few hours.

[Varsoon]

TSO wouldn't be giving out inventions to town people as scum, right?
Flubber is town because I trust LC's opinion on that.
I still think DGB is town based on Thor being NK on N1.

Don't see how these things clear these people:
1. Scum can get town-oriented roles. Happens all the time. Same goes for town getting scum-oriented roles.
2. LC could easily be wrong. But I do side on you here, LC's defense of Flubber feels well informed and legit, but I won't let it rule Flubber as cleared.
3. Scum can kill anyone. A kill that makes you clear a player is the best kind of kill if that player is scum.

[Varsoon]

I'm cool with ETL's plans.
If I need to die so that we can win this game, I'm cool with that. I haven't been super helpful anyway.

@TSO: I see what you mean about scum claiming Jailkeep knowing mastin!scum was Aesthetic, but if that's the case, that's even more evidence towards me not knowing mastin was scum-aesthetic. Especially given how stridently I held that my claim would be a crappy scumclaim. So, don't see your logic connecting fully, just initially.

[Varsoon]

I think I do it too much because I default to using aesthetic a lot in actually discourse since I'm in arts and fiction and rhetoric and such.
But yeah, ascetic.
Ascetic.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NO LYNCH

Here's to hoping everyone's claimed truthfully and there's no strongman bullshit.

[Varsoon]

I have reads.

Varsoon is scum.

Everyone else is town.

I just don't have time to try to convince people.

It's okay, that's literally the easiest and likely the only read you need to have to survive for now.

[Varsoon]

I JK'd ETL.
I like when plans work.
I just kinda wish ETL would've fuckin' cleared me instead of DGB.
'cus now I have to actually -play-.

[Varsoon]

How is it LYLO even?

Well DGB was my top until just now.
I felt like the Thor kill was meant as WIFOM to misdirect from the slot and that DGB's push on me was really opportunistic and sudden.
Now I'd probably go with Flubber. Mafia claiming perma-hated is too awkward. Flubber's been a bully to me for a lot of the game, too. I suspected him, but TSO cleared him, so...?
Did we ever get TSO saying flat out that he got a friendly neighbor hit from Flubber?

[Varsoon]

Not TSO, Lying Cat.
I'm all mixed up.

[Varsoon]

This back and forth is absurd.
Yeah, my jailkeep doesn't account for strongman or a role that could stop mine in NAR, but I still can't fathom a game where ETL is scum, not even in my crazy, crazy head.

[Varsoon]

Jeese kaboose get your aesthetics together.

:3

Every time I open this game, I get a headache. I don't wanna think about it.

[Varsoon]

It kinda helps that guyett isn't around to antagonize me and that I've been JK'ing you into oblivion.

I'm kinda fine with being the lynch, though. You guys should still get another day to figure shit out once I'm gone.

[Varsoon]

Then why aren't we lynching Kaboose just to be safe?
:l