Newbie 1747 (Game Over)

[Hermie]

VOTE: rb

RVs for the win! Get him!

[Hermie]

Mustang afraid to bandwagon your scum buddy?

[Hermie]

Btw rb is at l-2.. might be a good time for a defense rb huh???

[Hermie]

Unless we get a defense tonight I have

intent to hammer

[Hermie]

Hmm true. But who ever comes on should hammer it.. he is stalling

[Hermie]

Scum is careful voting.. scum as a general rule doesn't want to Lynch town because of the possible repercussions...

[Hermie]

It's a proven fact... Anyway rb is active now.. VOTE: creeps20 he is from the supercell forums and is super active most of the time... More then me even...

[Hermie]

Rb you haven't really done much for town term. I'm gonna keepy eye on you..

[Hermie]

It is interesting that for all you say I look scummy you haven't voted me... Not a very townie move according to some....

[Hermie]

Hey creeps! @thor I'm just waiting till rb is l-1.. he is very fluffy so far...

[Hermie]

Lol.

Fluffy

Already have 3 townreads, what an ez game.

Great! But he never tells us why.

Scum is careful voting.. scum as a general rule doesn't want to Lynch town because of the possible repercussions...

That's what scum would say.

Meaningful post! It might be what scum would say but it's not what scum does

Misa, PP and Thor are town.

All but fluff... Any reasoning? Past games you can compare it to? Examples of their day one maf plays?

I'm scared.

Fluff

Yes I'm scared.

Fluff

...says the person who seemed to advocate for a lynch aggressively on a player who did nothing and ignoring my fos posts on you. I get it now that it was a RvS vote now, but my points still stay the same. Though I will say if he continues to fluff, I will have my fos on rb.

FoS is useless. Don't do that.

Okay? Why is it useless? I like it as a scum hunting list... People to pay attention to..

It is interesting that for all you say I look scummy you haven't voted me... Not a very townie move according to some....

It's a proven fact... Anyway rb is active now.. VOTE: creeps20 he is from the supercell forums and is super active most of the time... More then me even...

I was asleep. Anyways I know hermies maf style much more than anyone else on any forums. I would say he his VTL on me is worrying to say the least. He always acts scrummy and I am always the one who pays down the proof. With me gone he can win much easier

From what I can tell Hermie is like lynchbait extraordinaire. Half the town already hates the dude. We'll be fine.

Clarification: the Mafs will be fine...

The vote reasons on 12 actually feels like a joke, while I feel like Hermie is actually pushing it (doing the proper format for intent to hammer, pushing others to vote for his target, and badly rationalizing for the lynch "he is stalling") with 18 thru 22.

P-Edit: Even lynching your scumpartner has repercussions. Assuming WE lynch scum today, a 7v2 today (and 2 mls needed to win) turns into 6v1 tomorrow (and 3 mls needed to win). You may argue that newbscum won't attract attention to themselves within actually 24 hours of the thread starting, but that ends up into circular WIFOM.

P-Edit v2: Who are your townreads so far, rb?

This is a good post.

You responded with one sentence... That had no meaning...

Oh before I forget to ask:

How is having 3 townreads in 2 pages fluff? That's the epitome of getting shit done. I've narrowed the 2 scum into a pool of 5 players - what have you done?

Yes you have 3 solid town leads it is very plain to everyone.. now start lynching? And we will win...(sarcasm)

[Hermie]

Crumbs I'll just re vtl you... VOTE: rb

[Hermie]

I isoed your posts Thor and they look entirely different... I don't wanna take up a bunch of thread space by posting them tho...

[Hermie]

tl:dr - this entire commentary block is all about introducing myself as the IC, blathering about my duties, and offering a basic idea of some of the strategy of the RVS. If this interests you, please read on (especially if this is your first time playing here) if not, feel free to skip.

Spoiler: IC Intro

===========================================================================================

Greetings,

I am Thor665 and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) player of this group. What this means is first and foremost - I am here to play this game with you in a way that will show you what it is like to play on Mafiascum.net. I am here to win and should be treated as such.

My goals and the rules governing my actions are covered in this handy article: Being a good IC
That article is part of our amazing MafiaWiki System. I *highly* recommend this system as a good way to get your feet wet and to find out what a lot of the common abbreviations mean. There is a lot of play strategy discussed in there too. A lot of players consider that advice almost all outdated now. I don't recommend trying to run verbatim with anything there, but a lot of the basic advice is very good to at least be aware of as it can help you avoid blatant pitfalls as you become familiar with the game play here.

Now, as an IC I am here as a resource for you to ask questions of concerning game theory. I WILL NOT lie about game theory answers and will answer them to the best of my ability. I will also offer you the following quick pieces of advice;

1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

Vote: Penguin Power

Unvote: Penguin Power
Vote: rb

VOTE: Thor665

He knows why.

Is it because you're scum and fear my elite skills?
Because otherwise - no, I don't know why.

There is absolutely nothing in my comment that remotely looks like buddying.
In fact, if anything, it is an attack on you.
Why are you falsely trying to claim it as buddying, while also ignoring the implicit invitation to justify your false suggestion that I would know why you voted me?

I was trying to reference why I voted you with "you know why" because of you buddying me as scum in 1725. I'm hurt you don't remember.

:sadpenguin:

For you it was the glorious day you got to play with Thor.
For me it was Tuesday

@Creeps - knowing Hermie's style, what is your value call on the super weak pressure on RB despite big talk heading into it?
It was like he showed up on his lawn, with a torch and a length of rope, planted a big tree for the hanging, and then was like 'oh, wait, you have hair - nevermind!' and left. I liked the pressure until then, now it looks beyond fake -normal/not normal?

@RB - why do you think your town reads are good enough to have validity? Couldn't it be possible that me or Penguin or Misa are faking our posting of a few hours and a few posts each?

Thor hermies maf play-style is distinct to say the least. He is not playing like his maf self but the vote on me is mildly frightening as once I am gone he could be able to be his maf self freely.

What is his maf style play?

Hey creeps! @thor I'm just waiting till rb is l-1.. he is very fluffy so far...

He already asked this, and you missed/ducked it, so I'll ask again because I wanted to see the answer too.
How is his posting fluffy?

I actually don't buy into his town reads claptrap, particularly, but I think there's a valid question of what makes his posting fluffy as compared to, say, Penguin's posting, or your posting, or my posting. Clarify?

Thought of this... I should have done that on rbs mass quote...

Tags edited to fix page-breaking issues. ~Zaicon

[Hermie]

Also Hermie why would you discredit my ability? Being sarcastic about my ability to read isn't very smart if you're town - my reads are good, I've picked entire scumteams in more than half of my town games so far.

RVS is pretty close to over, so anyone not voting me for legitimate reasons should now unvote as I'm town. Thanks.

I will change my vote when I have a more suspicious character to vote for...


Also @post 64 on the sc forums we tend to focus more on scum tells then town tells... Rightly or wrongly... And generally we like a few words of explanation with either idea... Even just say it's a gut feeling... Makes more sense then just saying it.

My gut tells me you are scum so far... We will see if that changes. In my opinion you haven't really shown a town reaction to the l-2 but then it was never at l-1...


Personally my gut says aelin is newb town but that is a good play for scum to try as well... I will keep my eyes open

[Hermie]

Why are people voting me in particular? What exactly are the reasons?

Scum tactic.. What is the case against me?

That being said I think it's mostly RVs with extra weight because of your inactivity and no contributions to town...

[Hermie]

*fluff*

https://forum.supercell.com/showthread. ... %21/page14

This game just ended on the sc forums.. interesting but not entirely balanced..

[Hermie]

That includes examples of me as maf and of creeps as third party.. and it was not quite as fluffy as saying.. "I'm scared" as a defense post

[Hermie]

Long ways from a hammer so far... Don't want to vote? Hmmm...

[Hermie]

Vote for them! In the words of another player a vote is your way of expressing your opinion in a stronger way then just saying it....


And a run down on creeps playstyle .. generally very active as scum or town...fluffy either way but more so as scum.. he has a tendency to overreact as scum and makes terrible night plans as scum... You guys don't talk at night so that isn't much of an issue here..

[Hermie]

Wow... OK. Totally different atmosphere here than I'm used to. Alright then...

Um, well I don't know who to vote for. I think people who are quick to throw around accusations look a little more suspicious in my opinion. Other than that, I don't have much.

Ha every game is a different attitude... But as a townie(if you are a townie) your power is your vote... If you were doc would you not heal rather then risking healing the wrong person? Agreed we are quick to throw suspicioun but we aren't lynching people yet.. a vote isn't gonna hurt and your input is valuable to judge you and others by....

[Hermie]

Just like that the thread dies :/... I'm going to leave my vote on rb at the moment... But if Persephone doesn't start having some ideas here shortly... I think rb is currently more suspicious then an inactive... Inactives are very much of a tossup IMO are they lurking scum? Afk? Or means with no ideas? But at the moment rb has what I would term as fairly significant evidence against him... Persephone would make a strong second.. and creeps is not playing normally.. definitely not his normal town style but neither is it his scum style.. he is either trying a new playstyle or is confused scum... Either way I'd recommend keeping an eye on him..

[Hermie]

Correction "or just means with no ideas" to "or just newbs with no ideas" autocorrect:/

[Hermie]

@host Is there any allowance for a will/death post to announce scum reads? I know this is a very simple setup but it is a nice thing to learn to use? Don't see any rules about it..

[Hermie]

I take it my honest opinion is fluffy? So be it if it is! It is all the better I can offer you... And look at my mass quote... That is my evidence as well as the fact that all you have done is post this bits even now... Why is pers town? Have you played with her before?

And other then "town reading" 4 people in 4 pages you haven't done much... I guess if you are an expert and can tell these things then you really have done something... I personally never rule out anyone as town... I played a few games on the supercell forum that taught me that rule hard and fast....

[Hermie]

I actually think it's super crappy when people link games of themselves unrequested. The sole purpose is to try and force a townread based on 'look I'm similar' or 'look I'm different'.

It's a play that only bad town and scum need to make. I haven't decided what I think Hermie is yet.

I have a problem with this post... At this point you are attacking the player not the play... Attacking the man is a logical fallacy you learn quite young... If you have a reason to attack me please base it off of game posts not attacking the man... That is almost as bad as appeal to emotions...

Now that being said it is a decent point..

[Hermie]

@ town. I know I have a problem with getting fixed on one player but imho rb has done nothing to give me any reason to doubt he is scum...

It is 12 so I'm gonna go to sleep now and reread in the morning.... But I would highly advocate the lynching of rb... Waiting will not hurt anything tho.. i rest my case... The wiser heads might wanna look thru this

[Hermie]

I still have questions about creeps current playstyle and aelin is very nearly inactive. Every instinct I have is screamed that rb is scum even his town reads make me think he is scum.. remember the scum knows what is up. They know who is town and his town reads feel like that.. like he is dead sure about them.

Earlier he said he could find entire scum teams on day 1.. I interesting then who he has give us any scum reads other then me... And he never voted for me... Lack of conviction..

[Hermie]

I am at work and will respond more at break time... First off tho... I AM NOT THROWING SHADE. I worry that that is the conclusion you got... I am out and out accusing you of being a mafia... Throwing shade is suggesting someone might be mafia... I am accusing you of being mafia...


Secondly can you please explain to me why town should suddenly decide the "town rea"d someone? It is never for for towns best interest to take someone as confirmed town unless there is proof to back it up with... Some mafia players are masters of bullshit and will appear very townie...why write someone off as townie based on the tone of 3 posts??????????????

[Hermie]

Creeps is acting unnatural. Currently rb is far more suspicious tho..

[Hermie]

That is true... I will keep my eyes on you tho... Why no vote yet?? Can't find a suspicious player in 6 pages?

[Hermie]

There is literally nothing in her iso other than evidence she is a new player.
How do you justify getting a town read from that?

I think it's either 1. me badly rationalizing a town gutread or 2. feeling that persephone's overly cautious nature is newbtown

btw, I'm understanding the reasons on Hermie's fos on rb. rb's not giving reasons why he's townreading people. he's giving topic sentences, but not support sentences, in essence, and on posts he DOES give reasons on, it's only in response to posts he's been accused of.

Hermie, what's your stance/reads as of now? Note that townreads doesn't necessarily mean "confirmed town" (in my previous game, I early-townread a person that ended up being scum, and I admitted I was wrong in the early stages of day 2). Who's been giving off townvibes? Who's been giving off scumvibes? It's okay to have nullreads btw, and it's okay to scumread the most protown people.

P-Edit: Also, Hermie, creeps: What tone do you think newbscum/newbtown will come off as? "Unusual" or "natural"? Are your latest games even a good comparison to this environment? (with a very very small town, newbies-majority with a couple of people who've played games on the same site before, and one that's supposed to be teaching the newbies)

I would say Thor is likely town... If he is scum he is giving unnecessary weight to a day 1 Lynch of scum...(at this point I am certain rb is scum so I will just write this post from that pov) and day 1 bussing is a very bad idea for scum

Creeps I would say is suspicious... He is not acting naturally scum or town... I don't know where to put him but I would leave it as suspicious

Aelin and Persephone are refusing to answer questions... Scummy but they both appear to be fairly noobish... I will leave them at null I guess


Mistange I originally thought was kinda scummy but most of my reasoning was OMGUS... I need to see more to guess... I'd leave that at null..
Penguin power I would have called town earlier but he isn't very active lately..... Null to slightly suspicious


And I request a prod of sinkongoreng


Rb is scum

[Hermie]

I reaaally wonder about creeps... He is not voting even tho if he believes his reads list he has enough of a reason too.. As I have said this is not his normal play but I feel like a scum creeps would be in the thick of this.. accusing everyone.. but if he is town he is fairly useless at the moment. I list him as a likely scum I guess. I would like more content from him... If he doesn't pipe up soon I would really lean towards scum but rb is still far more suspicious in my opinion

[Hermie]

I do know his highly active scum tactic has failed him. Possibly he is trying to play it down... I just don't know at this point..

[Hermie]

Anyway I don't think rb will be a mislynch if we were on the sc forums he would be hammered by now

[Hermie]

This post came to you from 1am poop run, please excuse the grammar and spelling of my phone ragepost.

According to this post it is 7 or 8 am @ where ever rb is located...

We should be hearing more from him in a few hours I would guess

[Hermie]

Many logics.
Very contributions.
Much good post.
Extra town.

[Hermie]

(sarcasm)


Seriously if you are that good why haven't you done a thing yet? All you have done is voted against me .. really that is the only thing you have contributed is the opinion that I am scum...


If this is your fabled wonderful town play and I would never catch you this soon as mafia then I think you would actually do the town more good as mafia.


As to your last post . I can't facepalm hard enough that was unnecessary un asked for and inapplicable to this game.. The quality of the players on the sc forums matters not one iota...

As to if I am contributing there is two things... Logical fallacy of attacking the man.. Also the fact that I have been posting my honest opinion on the game nearly constantly while you have posted shit defenses and never really done us any good.

As a side note I am not saying my opinion is valid but I am saying I posted to the best of my knowledge the current state of the game..

[Hermie]

There is literally nothing in her iso other than evidence she is a new player.
How do you justify getting a town read from that?

I think it's either 1. me badly rationalizing a town gutread or 2. feeling that persephone's overly cautious nature is newbtown

btw, I'm understanding the reasons on Hermie's fos on rb. rb's not giving reasons why he's townreading people. he's giving topic sentences, but not support sentences, in essence, and on posts he DOES give reasons on, it's only in response to posts he's been accused of.

Hermie, what's your stance/reads as of now? Note that townreads doesn't necessarily mean "confirmed town" (in my previous game, I early-townread a person that ended up being scum, and I admitted I was wrong in the early stages of day 2). Who's been giving off townvibes? Who's been giving off scumvibes? It's okay to have nullreads btw, and it's okay to scumread the most protown people.

P-Edit: Also, Hermie, creeps: What tone do you think newbscum/newbtown will come off as? "Unusual" or "natural"? Are your latest games even a good comparison to this environment? (with a very very small town, newbies-majority with a couple of people who've played games on the same site before, and one that's supposed to be teaching the newbies)

Giving reasons for townreads this early is incredibly stupid.

Why? I'm not debating you and this is a meta question but why??

[Hermie]

One thing keeps hanging me up... Rb has 2800 posts here to probably 10-15 games under his belt... If this is how bad his maf play is after that much experience.... Facepalm


But if this is how bad his town play is after that much experience... Double Facepalm

[Hermie]

Aelin if you had to pick 2 town, who would it be?
If you had to pick 2 scum, who would it be?

If you're unsure it's fine, just answer the question as if you had a gun to your head or something. It's fine to be wrong, but it's not fine to be a non-contributor.

And added to the list of rbs town constructions! He asked aelin 2 questions after Thor has asked a whole list and got no response

[Hermie]

If you think the only way to play early game is to form conclusions about who is scum, you'd be wrong. That you think the way I'm playing is "bad" is just ridiculous.

This is a rather foot in mouth post... Remember your posts about game solving in day 1? You said you could pick the scum team in a few posts..



And you wanna know what triggered me to start looking into your posts?

[Hermie]

I'm scared.

Yes I'm scared.

Those 2 posts super triggered me and then I realized your posts were filler and fluffy.. now you are moving on to out right contradicting yourself... Pray continue I don't really think I even need to post anymore... #selfincriminationislife

[Hermie]

VOTE: Hermie

This is pretty good for right now.

For that I have no words....

If I was a maf playing like this the first mislynch would be game set and match for me... And as a town if I mislynch someone I am dead... This playstyle has literally no future as a maf play... Think about it..

[Hermie]

Aelin if you had to pick 2 town, who would it be?
If you had to pick 2 scum, who would it be?

If you're unsure it's fine, just answer the question as if you had a gun to your head or something. It's fine to be wrong, but it's not fine to be a non-contributor.

And added to the list of rbs town constructions! He asked aelin 2 questions after Thor has asked a whole list and got no response

Big lists can be intimidating. Two very easy questions can help new players contribute and get into the flow of the game. The goal is to get everyone contributing. I couldn't care less if someone made a whole list and got no response - I intend to keep encouraging other slots to contribute.

If you were town, why would you not like this?

I like it. But it's not much and it's late.. keep it up!

[Hermie]

I'm actually pretty comfortable with my win record right now. Thx.

You keep talking like lynches are going to happen immediately. Why is that?

@penguinpower.. I don't care when the Lynch's happen just that they happen and I am not used to a 14 day game day so I like to get the game moving...

[Hermie]

This here is why I wish we would end days alittle sooner..m we are losing momentum... It's been 5 hours since a player posted so noone has new info to go off of... And the info we have is sufficient imo..

[Hermie]

Use VOTE: player name[/vote*]

[Hermie]

Okay... Just saying that VTL isn't gonna get. Counted...

[Hermie]

Thor I'd answer your question but we fundamentally disagree about whether post 50 is purely worthless shade throwing or not. You want me to 'respond' to a case that is just a bunch of one liners. That's not a case, anyone can do that.

Also as mentioned, it's not productive to argue with scum or bad town players. It just derails useful discussion. What I want you to do is outline how post 50 is supposedly the product of critical thought and not just shitty shade-throwing.

My god I can't stand it when the IC is illogical and lost.

Response to accusations of me being fluffy:

Use your brain and read my ISO, then use brain to realise how not-fluff my posts actually are. Thx.

Also lol @ creeps 'scumtell' on me, I missed that gem.

Oh right about why I'm not voting you.

Because you're probably town for your posts up to and including 112. I don't explain early game townreads, deal with it. And yes, I think some of the things you said were utterly worthless but I have no doubt you're a good player. Being IC doesn't make people immune to missing info or doing dumb stuff.

Rb why are all your posts, defensive or offensive, based off the supposed quality of said players? Remember this is a newbie game and player quality may or may not be great..


But having said that you have ranted many times about how good of a player you are.. why is all your suspicioun and scum tells based off of "You are either a bad mafia or a worse townie" line of reasoning? Can we move past attacking the player and try attacking the play?


I haven't noticed any mass quotes from you and 1 scum list? Why not? I am attacking the player here but you have stated openly you are a good player. Why is that not plain to the rest of us?

[Hermie]

First point.. I have had plenty to say with other players then you, rb.

Secondly my vote is because I think you are scum.

So from a purely play point of view let's look at this:

If rb is mafia his play is bad but not terrible.. He has 2 players tunneling on him but only 2.. He can possibly flip a Lynch off him but only one.. so not impressive play but not so bad..

If he is town his play is awful . He has 2 players throwing suspicioun at him. His contributions are sketchy at best. He will get a townie lynched when he dies and he is diverting town unnecessarily with his angry posts....


I give 2000 pats some value and I don't understand either outcome really but if he is town... Wow is all I can say


I will be gone till 10 or 11

[Hermie]

Interesting... I would not call that a usual scum tactic. But I remain certain that slot is scum... I will wait for the replacement to join before I Lynch tho!

VOTE: creeps20

For a general inactivity and an unnatural playstyle.. I want more posts before a Lynch but something doesn't quite feel right...

[Hermie]

I don't know if you actually understand that context is paramount to sound logic and you're completely misunderstanding the context of many of my posts. I think you're town though, so I'll just ignore you and hope you stop derptunneling on me when I'm obvtown.

Actually I really cbf carrying such an awful town.

@Zaicon, replace me out.

I'm Vanilla Town. Bye. Blacklisting Hermie for having less IQ points than birthdays.

[Hermie]

I don't quite know what to say as I thought my demands where rather clear... I wanted more posts about the actual gameplay rather then all the comments about the quality of town.. His replacement has some talking to do in my opinion...

[Hermie]

One last thing... Just as a disclaimer... I put all likes and dislikes out of my mind in a mafia game so don't take anything I say personally... I never take anything said in a tvm/mafia game personally.. I will attack my best friends and buddy up with my worst enemies if that is what the game requires..

Just as a disclaimer...

[Hermie]

That is what scum would say but I will let it slide... Interesting how a vote drops on you and you are suddenly active again.. it is 1:50 am here so imma get some sleep

[Hermie]

Well I will be watching his replacement closely... He NEVER did anything for town... Even when prodded.. I don't know how I could have assumed he was town.. especially with him going on about how good of a player he was..


As the the aelin bandwagon... Her tone was town in my opinion but her answers so far have been scum.. I will hold my vote on creeps so we don't hit an accidental Lynch...

[Hermie]

Hey guys I'm ready to get cracking
UNVOTE:

Not a good move for a player slot currently under suspicioun... I will say this.. I will remove my vote from your slot when you start making contributions to town... Sus lists and reasoning...

[Hermie]

Guys we need to keep talking...

@algebra what do you have to say about your slots previous player?

[Hermie]

Maybe trying to say pp... But algebra if you had read the game thread you would know why you are under suspicioun after just a few posts...

[Hermie]

8 days and. You are at l-2. Now would be a decent time to do some explaining...

[Hermie]

Here is my idea.. jail algebra and Lynch creeps or lynch algebra and jail creeps... Not 100% sure but nearly so that that is our scum team... There is a possibility of pp being scum but I am reasonably sure that Thor and mistange are town.. and I can trust you for the moment..

Mhmsmith also seems fairly townie

[Hermie]

When did I say that it was a scum replace out, it's obviously a town one

Why does that sound forced? Am I just too certain that rb was scum? Do I need to open my eyes and take another look? Cause algebra hasn't seemed too bad until this post... As to the creeps wagon I wouldn't hammer until he comes on to talk but he has just seemed very different this game... I know weird=/= scummy but in this case he feels scummy to me...


Pp has been very quiet lately... I guess I would call him null.

Aelin is un cced I'd call her likely town.. or an experienced scum playing a noob card very well... I lean toward town

Persephone needs to get a replacement before I say anything..

Mistange is a very skilled maf if he isn't town..


I would place Thor as as close to confirmed town as possible without a host claim... Mayor or something

[Hermie]

Nah Hermie seems pretty chill

I appreciate the town read but... "Pretty chill" is kinda what I haven't been this game... Just sayn..


I wish creeps would get on here and acknowledge his l-1 state... And pp has been very silent...

[Hermie]

@ Thor that was at 5 pm in the evening.. lol

At break time I will try to reread and see if anything stands out to me... I will try to post some new thoughts then

[Hermie]

Sorry I've got to wait till I get home to reread the thread...


I am gonna try looking at the game as if algebra/rb isn't scum and see what pops out.... With no cc I guess we call aelin confirmed town? And is Persephone getting replaced?

[Hermie]

Face palm... The first post contains all the role PM's...

[Hermie]

I thought nn was doing a pretty good job, and I don't agree with the scumreads on him

I meant rb sorry

Reread from page 9... I can't read earlier then that without getting triggered by rb...


Found this little jewel....


I will leave my vote in creeps be cause I find him quite suspicious... But rb/algebra stays in second place scum read... Next up is penguin power... Seems slightly less active(i know v/la) with a null to slight scum read... Mistange with a null to town read Thor with a town read...

Persephone goes with a no comment...

[Hermie]

Spoiler:

Why do I feel like Creeps is doubtcasting in 295/299?

Probably because he was straight up saying he wasn't sure he bought the claim?
Like, why is it even a feeling - he is absolutely doubting the claim. So what's your take on that?

I have seen people fake-claim lots of roles. I don't trust people's claims anymore. Unless explicit evidence is proven

@HOST is Paraphrasing allowed?

Face palm... The first post contains all the role PM's...

Does it? Hang on lemme check

Face palm... The first post contains all the role PM's...

Does it? Hang on lemme check

They are. Great.

In that case

HOST DO PEOPLE GET NOTIFIED IF JAILED?

I have seen people fake-claim lots of roles. I don't trust people's claims anymore. Unless explicit evidence is proven

What would be explicit evidence in your mind?

Generally if a specific person is jailed or affected by the role.

Why would an unCC'd JK not be explicit evidence?

The rows.

We don't know which role we have or collum. Due to this there may not be another jailor. But for this to be true we would need more claims. Thus is why you never trust an un'CCed charecter until proof Is given

This is explicitly wrong. We have EXACTLY ONE of jk/cop/tracker. So no cc = conf!town (a cop should debatably stay silent but a jk or tracker or doc should always cc)

I actually had to check.

Yeah you are right. Why do I always over-exaggerate

Arise thread arise!

For now I will

VTL PERSE

Due to inactivity

@Creeps - your vote is parsed wrong. You would strongly benefit from reading the Mod's initial series of posts describing the game rules and setup rules.

Forgot the url.

VOTE: VTL PERSE

I'd give it another whirl just to be safe - but you're closer.

I will always forget to get rid of the VTL part

VOTE: PERSE

Think so. Thor if it wasn't for the fact I am on mobile I would send you the links

VOTE: aelin

She drops in and does nothing. Suspicous? Yes. Maf don't want to contribute.

Who said I wasn't open to suggestions? It is D1. No leads. So at this point we need a lynch of some description and/or major scum tells. We have never. So we are basically seeing people's behaviour. Thanks for contrubuting

Also if Hermie has played mafia before why is he asking me to explain townreads on Day 1?

Didn't you play with him in 1740?

I thought it ended. Oops

VOTE: UNVOTE

Let's give ourselves more time before a hammer shall we?

VOTE: UNVOTE

Let's give ourselves more time before a hammer shall we?

This is icky.

Let's wait for everyone to check in. There are still people who need to check in. Let's wait before having proper cases

No this does not mean ignore her. It means we should look for more leads than one. If we have none in 6 days we can vote her up.

Vote for them! In the words of another player a vote is your way of expressing your opinion in a stronger way then just saying it....


And a run down on creeps playstyle .. generally very active as scum or town...fluffy either way but more so as scum.. he has a tendency to overreact as scum and makes terrible night plans as scum... You guys don't talk at night so that isn't much of an issue here..

I always make terrible night plans. Oh and I am stubborn

Expression can kill an innocent. I would rather have a potential inno alive till further notice.

Okay my thoughts on RB...

First off he is reacting slightly different than what I would expect. He is making a massive deal out of it. On the forums I am from this is a clear tell tale sign of new scum. If i am not mistaken this is his 2nd game? Now then the games played here are different. But his defence is too exaggerated to be townie. I am going to go with either a power role or scum.

But his defence is too exaggerated to be townie. I am going to go with either a power role or scum.

Why would being a power role make him not react like a townie?

Because he is too important and fights more ferociously than a townie would. He needs to live much more than a townie. He knows this and so defends harder than a townie.

All townies owe it to fight to survive.
This is pro-town because town doesn't win by lynching town.
Also, it obligates scum to, theoretically, have to exert more force to cause a lynch, which presumably helps make them easier to spot.
I fight hard not to be lynched when town.

Even if we presume your point is exactly correct - it's functionally of no bearing, because you're still pointing out that either they are town or scum, much like saying you are either scum with no avatar, to make you less noticeable, or town with no avatar because you're lazy town - making the "tell" not a tell, yeah?

I don't really get this tell.

Never do I :p
It's something that people look for on my forum

Creeps is acting unnatural. Currently rb is far more suspicious tho..

Hermie remember the latest game we played? The most unusual was town and the least was maf

So you're just saying things you don't understand/believe for the sake of conversation?

Yup. I do that a lot

So you're just saying things you don't understand/believe for the sake of conversation?

Yup. I do that a lot

Why do you think it helps town to occlude your honest opinions?

At this point anyone is a suspect. I always hate D1. For all we know we could have you and hermie as maf. Or aelin and me ect. We only have scum hunting at this point. No votes to go off or anything. We have a lack of information. Anyways my honest opinion is basically not to lynch D1. When I do I always hit jailor or doc.

There is literally nothing in her iso other than evidence she is a new player.
How do you justify getting a town read from that?

I think it's either 1. me badly rationalizing a town gutread or 2. feeling that persephone's overly cautious nature is newbtown

btw, I'm understanding the reasons on Her
mie's fos on rb. rb's not giving reasons why he's townreading people. he's giving topic sentences, but not support sentences, in essence, and on posts he DOES give reasons on, it's only in response to posts he's been accused of.

Hermie, what's your stance/reads as of now? Note that townreads doesn't necessarily mean "confirmed town" (in my previous game, I early-townread a person that ended up being scum, and I admitted I was wrong in the early stages of day 2). Who's been giving off townvibes? Who's been giving off scumvibes? It's okay to have nullreads btw, and it's okay to scumread the most protown people.

P-Edit: Also, Hermie, creeps: What tone do you think newbscum/newbtown will come off as? "Unusual" or "natural"? Are your latest games even a good comparison to this environment? (with a very very small town, newbies-majority with a couple of people who've played games on the same site before, and one that's supposed to be teaching the newbies)

I actually have good comparison! It really depends on the personality of the player. Some players intentionally make themselves look scummy when they are a doc to save them from the deaths at night. One thing is for certain. Only 4 days worth of lynching. And this is never good I can tell you

That's a good point, but...

I have this odd, odd feeling that Creeps (assuming he is scum) will be like "oh! but im a pr trying to act scummy to avoid being nightkilled!". or use that to defend his scumpartner, but that's probably just me being paranoid.

I shouldn't have said that. Now scum are going to be using it too get out of scumville

So you're just saying things you don't understand/believe for the sake of conversation?

Yup. I do that a lot

Why do you think it helps town to occlude your honest opinions?

At this point anyone is a suspect. I always hate D1. For all we know we could have you and hermie as maf. Or aelin and me ect. We only have scum hunting at this point. No votes to go off or anything. We have a lack of information.

Anyways my honest opinion is basically not to lynch D1. When I do I always hit jailor or doc.

The bolded is not an answer to the question, though I agree with it.
The italics are *also* not an answer to the question, and I disagree with them.
The question I put in Blue to help you find it.
Could you answer the question?

And I request a prod of sinkongoreng

Requests to the mod should be put in bold to help them notice it, and usually prefacing with @Mod is a good idea also.
Currently we still have about four and a half hours until he hits prod range per the mods posted rules.

I shouldn't have said that. Now scum are going to be using it too get out of scumville

I didn't think you believed it, and I already indicated that I didn't either.
Who is going to try to use something no one believes in to justify scummy play?

I do believe it. I have done it as jailer, Vigilante ect.

What does occlude mean?

Google says: stop, close up, or obstruct (an opening, orifice, or passage). @Creeps

God damm stupid Google thingies!

So it means that then? Okay let me try to answer that question.

And STUPID DOUBLE POSTING

So you're just saying things you don't understand/believe for the sake of conversation?

Yup. I do that a lot

Why do you think it helps town to occlude your honest opinions?

Most of the time they are wrong. There has been cases where I have lynched power roles due to my opinion being valued too strongly. I actually have a game on a different forum starting soon. I will be able to have much more useful opinions soon.

I reaaally wonder about creeps... He is not voting even tho if he believes his reads list he has enough of a reason too.. As I have said this is not his normal play but I feel like a scum creeps would be in the thick of this.. accusing everyone.. but if he is town he is fairly useless at the moment. I list him as a likely scum I guess. I would like more content from him... If he doesn't pipe up soon I would really lean towards scum but rb is still far more suspicious in my opinion

Well can't afford a mislynch. If we must mislynch do it today. But we need full on scum hunting in order to preform such a task. No instant "oh you are scum" play yet.

Since we have no questions to answer and everything we can has been brought up i thought I would mention that in my first ever game I was accused of playing here. Well yeah that is self explanatory

I don't think we will have sufficient data.

But I think i will, closer to the deadline, VTL alein

I know hermie. I done it before

Okay lets get the activitiy back.

Alein the only reason your voting me is because I voted you. This is called OMGUS and it is a pretty terrible scum tactic

VOTE: VTL ALEIN

Interesting... I would not call that a usual scum tactic. But I remain certain that slot is scum... I will wait for the replacement to join before I Lynch tho!

VOTE: creeps20

For a general inactivity and an unnatural playstyle.. I want more posts before a Lynch but something doesn't quite feel right...

Okay just read.this. I am trying a new one out

Herm I thought there were no new posts. Didn't see the next page exist

I nearly forgot this existed. Oops. Reading back

I am highly suspicious of algebra but in all honesty the other guy is town as far as I am concerned.

Also alein has disappeared.

@Misa: do you have something tangible to back up your scum read on Aelin? It seems like you basically made a lurker vote in 139; why did she stand out over Persephone (the other lurker), or PP/Creeps?

Partially tone. At that point, I felt like I disliked 105. Her "I'm not worth lynching." is the opposite of my "I'm okay with being lynched" in my eyes in my previous game, especially with a similar situation as this (we can afford mls with town getting majority). Her posts at that time were defense posts and I felt like her 67 was weak, but that might be partially because I expected a longer post.

Persephone's 88 felt at least SOME attempt on gamesolving (even though I feel like it is weak as well).

I think PP is a very slight TR for me, as well as I think Creeps is "weird" (done both townie and scummy things) as well as I'm not sure what I believe to be scummy is just a pet peeve of mine (constantly referencing meta is starting to be one of mine).

P-Edit: ...Also, why do I feel like Creeps is OMGUSing?

3 posts.
1 was nothing at all
Another was a BW.

@Misa: do you have something tangible to back up your scum read on Aelin? It seems like you basically made a lurker vote in 139; why did she stand out over Persephone (the other lurker), or PP/Creeps?

Partially tone. At that point, I felt like I disliked 105. Her "I'm not worth lynching." is the opposite of my "I'm okay with being lynched" in my eyes in my previous game, especially with a similar situation as this (we can afford mls with town getting majority). Her posts at that time were defense posts and I felt like her 67 was weak, but that might be partially because I expected a longer post.

Persephone's 88 felt at least SOME attempt on gamesolving (even though I feel like it is weak as well).

I think PP is a very slight TR for me, as well as I think Creeps is "weird" (done both townie and scummy things) as well as I'm not sure what I believe to be scummy is just a pet peeve of mine (constantly referencing meta is starting to be one of mine).

P-Edit: ...Also, why do I feel like Creeps is OMGUSing?

3 posts.
1 was nothing at all
Another was a BW.

Okay let me expand.
All the ideas there are mostly copied of others and is in a stark contrast to mthsmith who brought in a lot of information.

I am highly suspicious of algebra but in all honesty the other guy is town as far as I am concerned.

Also alein has disappeared.

Literally 1 game related post and "highly suspicious", lol.

And nothing to add.

What information does/did mhsmith have that we don't?

He added plenty of stuff. Got town on its feet and set us on the right track.

Your first was very scummy. Your one game related post is really just fluff. Collecting all ideas in a single post

What information does/did mhsmith have that we don't?

He added plenty of stuff.

Got town on its feet and set us on the right track.

Your first was very scummy. Your one game related post is really just fluff. Collecting all ideas in a single post

VOTE: creeps20

lol

Who said I meant it like that? He began an extensive scum hunt. Better than anyone else here

What makes his 4 player scum pool so much more extensive than my 3?

He came up with extensive proof and reasoning. He brought new things in

I feel like this is a good reminder to not claim until you are at L-1 (one more vote till lynch), a person has expressed intent to hammer with bold, and some majority of town agree you should claim.

Also

AELIN LOOK THRU THE THREAD AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

Looks like someone didn't

Ok since I softclaimed enough to be a walking target for Mafia possibky anyway and I don't think I'llget off the hook for being lyched any other way:
I am the Town Jailkeeper.
Haven't decided who I will choose to jail yet.

You are the Jailer? Great. We know who is dead tonight. Unless your fake claiming. In this set up in could claim anyrole and be scum. I wouldn't trust this ye




Sorry hermie have been having some technical issues. Well I guess if I die it ain't too bad for town. I am not a PR so yeah. Lynch me if you wish.

VOTE: UNVTL ALEIN
Innocent til CC'ed. Although the jailer can't do anything but counter claim. And I don't think a jailer would want to.

Why does that sound forced? Am I just too certain that rb was scum? Do I need to open my eyes and take another look?

By the sheer fact you're asking that question - the answer is yes.

Pp has been very quiet lately... I guess I would call him null.

[snip]

I would place Thor as as close to confirmed town as possible without a host claim... Mayor or something

Considering these two reads, you should sheep me for at least a bit.

D1? Jailer should always CC

For Jailer, I would agree - all of the other roles I disagree on.

I had to look the role up. This jailor is not a power role compared to other game's. So let's hope penguin power is not jailor shall we?

It is interesting that for all you say I look scummy you haven't voted me... Not a very townie move according to some....

It's a proven fact... Anyway rb is active now.. VOTE: creeps20 he is from the supercell forums and is super active most of the time... More then me even...

I was asleep. Anyways I know hermies maf style much more than anyone else on any forums. I would say he his VTL on me is worrying to say the least. He always acts scrummy and I am always the one who pays down the proof. With me gone he can win much easier

Thor hermies maf play-style is distinct to say the least. He is not playing like his maf self but the vote on me is mildly frightening as once I am gone he could be able to be his maf self freely.

Thor hermies standard maf play-style includes acting as town. Then 'cling on' to a high power player. Meaning he covers the other mafia.

1)

Aelin

Inactive but new. Null at the moment
2)

Creeps20

Town
3)

Hermie

Leaning on town
4)

MisaTange

Feels like he is trying to help but is he

Too

protown?
5)

PenguinPower

[SE] Haven't seen much of him.
6)

persephone325

Same as alein
7)

rb

[SE] Scummy to say the least
8)

sinkongoreng

Inactive
9)

Thor665

[IC] No clear read. Nul

Here ya go

Iso creeps posts, Thor, and see what you think..

Creeps has done very little scum hunting or town hunting.. he has one scum list. He starts the game talking about me rather then about current game events.
His activity level is low and seems to be mostsly limited to one line posts that do little to help town... Im not saying he is scum but if he is town he isn't doing us alot of good..

Spoiler added. ~Zaicon

[Hermie]

Awe sorry i decided I wasn't gonna post all those so I thought I had them cleared...

@ MOD can you spoiler that text wall?

[Hermie]

You have to make information happen day 1.. that is the point of the random wagons and putting people at l-1..

There are 14 pages... If you can't get any info from that you need to reread.. and as for the day 1 Lynch it is looking like it could quite possibly be you...

[Hermie]

In a very simple game like this hard proof IS NOT going to happen ... Unlike tos and some of the forum games this is a vanilla game with one town or and one or no maf PRS... So in this game playstyle and scummy play is what we have to Lynch people off of... Hard proof isn't gonna happen unless we have a cop...

Alos requesting hard proof could be a scum tactic to divert town from their lynch...

I will look back at Thor tho... He is at this point my strongest town read.. but I will check up on him

[Hermie]

Persephone has been prodded/being replaced. It's true that it's possible that one of the people that is seemingly actively avoiding this thread is scum, but placing a vote on an inactive slot just seems like yelling at a brick wall; pointless.

I'm starting to think 145 has scum intentions. An excuse to not gamesolve, but it's probably because even if Creeps is a ML, d1 is still an "associations" day (I remember a post saying that scum will have a plan and steady into their intended playstyle/strategy beyond d1, you can always look back into day one if you think a person's behavior is scummy)

Gut says otherwise though...

I find Hermie's townread on Thor peculiar though. I thought he made a big deal about strong townreads not being necessarily confirmed town (thereby contradicting his 289), but I was incorrect.

I do not consider strong town read confirmed town... But at this point I have plenty of people to find suspicious so why would i attack a player I don't find suspicious?

[Hermie]

O and before someone hammers the creeps lynch who gets jailed tonight? I still consider algebra to be a very decent target... Or penguin power if mhmsmith is right.... If you are gonna play doctor and save a power player obviously don't say it on the thread...

[Hermie]

He was suspected before then... You mentioned mhsmith's scum read on him yourself... A day ago...


Shade throwing much? And against Everyone? (Me,aelin,pp,thor,persephone)

[Hermie]

And this might be a host issue but I doubt scum will know if they are jailed until after they have confirmed the kill and the night is over

[Hermie]

@ algebra.. You have said much lately.. What is you take on the current creeps situation? And what about me and penguin power? Thoughts?

[Hermie]

Haven't*

[Hermie]

Great post! Algebra is RVs replacement and I remain very suspicious of that slot... He has been afk during alot of the creeps fiasco.. As for the buddy buddy thing I'd like to say it is creeps doing but I know I have mentioned that as well...

[Hermie]

Blawb I can agree my mq was weak on Rb but what really has him on the scum radars everywhere is his refusal to do anything for town... I believe I stated a few times that I wanted him to post thoughts on the game... Instead he kept up his OMGUS attacks on me and based on my personal quality as a player rather than my play...(as it seemed to me anyway) He would never scum hunt people and his contributions to town were basically limited to town reading 4 players on the second day of the game.. off of few to no posts from then...

[Hermie]

As for creeps I was the first on that wagon and will be the last to leave it unless some rather damning evidence comes up against someone else...

[Hermie]

Creeps who is your scum list currently and why?

[Hermie]

Okay and who is your town reads?

[Hermie]

Why is being susre you are gonna die a scum tell? And penguin power was suspicioned before the incident you are calling his scum tell...

[Hermie]

? I am certain you are maf.. not certain you are town...

[Hermie]

Blawb I think people are wanting to wait for a full length day... But for the record I'd be ready...

[Hermie]

Also Thor is starting to act werid. That playstyle seems to be like Hermies maf. Latching on to a player (me) and when they get lynched the other gets killed. This seems to be the case here

So you're saying I'm latching on to you, so that if I get lynched and flip scum I'll get you killed - and I did this as you're sitting at L-1 and I am generally town read?
How does that make sense?

@Creeps

Oops didn't see this.

I was slightly stressed. I always stress under pressure. So I make up things that may or may not make sense

Okay .. so should we believe the rest of your scum list? If you are stressed and up pressure and making things up?

[Hermie]

Pp before you hammer we need to talk to aelin

[Hermie]

She needs to tell us who she is gonna jail Incase she dies... So we would have a confirmed town... I don't care who it is but we need to know before the lynch

[Hermie]

At least imo... She hasn't been on for a while so i don't know when she will pop back on but I think we need to know that...

[Hermie]

Okay good enough string him up

[Hermie]

When you flip red and aelin gets nked whoever was in her jail that evening will be confirmed town... If you flip green then no it is not a confirmed townie and aelin would probably be better off playing jailor as doctor and saving a powerplayer from an nk

[Hermie]

I'm going to wait three hours until Aelin hits official prod stage. Algebra needs to be prodded.

Okay sounds great

[Hermie]

In other words when he flips red penguin is likely maf? Or algebra...

[Hermie]

And it's the curtains on day 1! Aelin it is up to you.. if creeps flips red.. which I am nearly certain he will then you have a good chance of getting the other maf.. and stopping any potential night kill.. if he flips green your odds go down on stopping a night kill and you would be better off protecting a powerplayer.. in my opinion...

And of course i cant prove this but I am not mafia.. I would call algebra top suspect and pp second... Someone somewhere posted that either me or creeps was likely to be scum and not both... That is really all I can offer for my innocence..

[Hermie]

Yep that's what I meant! Ninjad by aelin

[Hermie]

@creeps the Lynch is hammered.. care to share alignment?

[Hermie]

Miss range if he flips town I will eat my words... His town play is usually decent... And if he was town this game his play was far less then decent... I am as sure that he is scum as I can be with out host confirmation.... I could be wrong in which case I am dead...

[Hermie]

D2 on mafiascum!
After hammering a townie will Penguin power take the blame or will hermie for starting it? Will i ever know my faction right away? Will my death start arousing questions around one another? And will anyone post after this before night ends? Is alein really jailor or is she secretly a Bulletproof? In 3 days the curtains shall rise again with a precious soal lost. Will town find the mad killers on the loose? Stay tuned for next time on mafiascum!

Personally I feel like this is his attempt to warn his mafia buddy that aelin is possibly a bp... But that is my take on the matter

[Hermie]

Truth... It literally could be either....

@MOD Hey we need a reveal over here;-)

[Hermie]

Just catching up.. WHY CLAIM mistange?

And VOTE: penguin power

[Hermie]

That was a knee jerk reaction... But anyway the bps usefulness to town decreases alot after it is revealed... On the plus side we have her as a conf town... And I think k we would all agree I am confirmed town.. and algebra is confirmed town if aelin did what she said she would do... That narrows us down alot...


Pp why ask for a claim??

[Hermie]

Yea but what if scum unknowingly wasted an nk... Gave town an extra lynch? Even better

[Hermie]

Also, @hermie: given that the cat is out of the bag on that, why bother questioning her on why she claimed?

Also she should know that wasn't the best choice at the time for the future..

[Hermie]

1) algebra-conf town
2) Blawb-still mostly inactive... I'd say null
3) Hermie-id call myself conf town.. I would have to be a real idiot to push a scum bud that hard on d 1
4) mhsmith0-likely town
5) MisaTange-un cced bulletproof.. conf town for now
6) PenguinPower-most likely scum imo
7) Thor665-first day play was very townie I thought... I would say he is probably town



This is my readings... I haven't went back to see what creeps said about pp and Thor.. and what they said about him..

[Hermie]

Well personally I think if we lynch out of pp, blawb, and Thor we will get scum... I think pp is the top sus.. hard to call blawb but I still think Thor is town..

[Hermie]

I know Thor has experience and knows how to play but I feel like his day one play was fairly strongly town...

[Hermie]

Penguin power is at l-1. Personally I'm comfortable with that Lynch but we should possibly wait a bit longer?

I haven't gone back and reread but from what I know of creeps he would be the type to stick a scum buddy in his twilight post...

Then again it is a wifom as to if he did or not. I guess I should reread Thor but he definitely helped push the creeps lynch. And day 1 bussing is nearly always a bad idea as far as I have read.

[Hermie]

Thank-you mhsmith.. and I isoed Thor. He never did vote on creeps. I believe the reason I thought he was town was that he agreed with me on the RB slot. Which has been proved town. So add Thor to the lynch pool I guess..

[Hermie]

Those are good reasons as well.. I guess I'd say if the bulletproof isn't gonna get countered I am fine with a hammer or actually maybe we should wait for 24 hrs just to let people check in... I don't care so long as pp gets lynched

[Hermie]

Miss seems to take things in the best possible light. Might not be all bad but personally I think sticking a scum bud in a twilight post is right up creeps line. He might know I would think that and thus insert some wifom. Pp is my top scum read tho, even without creeps mention of him. Miss who is your top scum read?

[Hermie]

Pp mostly because the general consensus was that you were scum... And I tend to roll with the crowd.. I will try to do better.

Other then that you seem to have nearly all very short posts. Some are intelligent and informed but you NEVER give a player list scum tell. You have some posts lately about who you think is town/maf but it seems like you aren't really saying who is what too much... Now I don't know if that is necessarily a scum tell. I guess I will

UNVOTE: PP and wait a bit and see what happens.

[Hermie]

I read fluff as scum and you have not posted much content this game imo

[Hermie]

One vote on Thor
One vote on PP

I still feel like PP hasn't really done so much for town but when he was at l-1 recently he didn't take it as hard as a scum would.
Either that was a studied reaction or he is town. I guess I don't really see a problem putting Thor at l-1

VOTE: Thor

[Hermie]

Thor sits at l-1. I feel like I'm not doing much today but I am comfortable with bandwagonong Thor...

[Hermie]

I am willing to lynch penguin power and Thor... I don't think I would vote for mhsmith right away but possibly and algebra, mistange, my self are conf town and blawb is all but conf town imo

[Hermie]

Well personally I think if we lynch out of pp, blawb, and Thor we will get scum... I think pp is the top sus.. hard to call blawb but I still think Thor is town..

This is my earlier lynch pool. I would take blawb out now and you are the only other player that is not confirmed or nearly so.

Pp and Thor where my 2 strongest bets..

Thor had me thinking he was town day 1 because of how he buddied with me against rb.

[Hermie]

Thor at this point the reason I have my vote on you rather then penguin power is attitude. PP seems fairly accepting of being lynched provided you are next.. supposing you are town you shouldn't be to worried about getting lynched if PP is next right?

[Hermie]

]Okay I'm an idiot. I noticed the part about Blawb-still saying mhsmith had forced a claim out of aelin unnecessarily but it didn't sink in. A d as to Thor I town read him day 1 and he seems town now but when you iso his posts he doesnt appear to have done too much...UNVOTE:

[Hermie]

I guess I will go back to pp. That does cast enough doubt on blawb that he goes back in my lynch pool tho..


VOTE: PP

[Hermie]

I have played like 3 games with him or 4. He is very new tho like me so I doubt he would be very good at talking to his scum bud

[Hermie]

Okay it seemed like you tried to get players to be active including the inactives but yet you didn't do too much for actual reads other then pick over everyone else's..
I took my vote off you and put it back on pp but blawb has been suddenly quiet now that you and mhsmith have started hammering him again

[Hermie]

For some reason my filter won't let me access the completed newbie games thread. But after rereading Thor I feel like he wasn't trying to buddy beyond the RB mess and im not sure that is buddying because RB was very suspicious with his weird defenses.

I have my vote on PP and would only change it to Blawb.

[Hermie]

You know I'm suddenly being reminded of rbs hate for people bringing past games into the current game unasked.

[Hermie]

Blawb I shouldn't have voted Thor I have gut read him as town all game. I have thought pp was slightly town-null-slight scum-probably scum in that order. As to you I'm undecided, Persephone hadn't left much to go off of other then a post with a townish tone. Your case against Thor had holes but that isn't necessarily a scum trait but it would have a scum lean to it. As to mhsmith I feel he is town based on activity. For me as scum I always slip up if i try to be super active and mh seems to be fairly consistent all game. If algebra wasn't conf-town I would be suspicious of him but he is proven town.

[Hermie]

The more I read the more I wonder if blawb is scum. He seems to be rather sure that pp is gonna flip town, and he wants to pin that flip on Thor. Creeps had no interaction at all with perse, not even to try to prod him.

My lynch pool atm is pp or blawb and since pp is l-1 I will leave my vote on him, but I will switch in a heartbeat.

[Hermie]

The thread is slowing down... I think the time has come for a hammer. Pp sits at l-1, who gets to do the honors?

[Hermie]

Mistange and algebra! You guys are conf-town you need to be giving your thoughts.

[Hermie]

Thor and pp now both sit at l-1. Choose ye this day!

[Hermie]

So I'm a bad counter. I was thinking 3 was a hammer not 4. Pp sits at l-1 right now and ripe for the hammer. For some reason I think he knows that already tho.

[Hermie]

Hello? Anyone here?

[Hermie]

The more I read the more I wonder if blawb is scum. He seems to be rather sure that pp is gonna flip town, and he wants to pin that flip on Thor. Creeps had no interaction at all with perse, not even to try to prod him.

My lynch pool atm is pp or blawb and since pp is l-1 I will leave my vote on him, but I will switch in a heartbeat.

That logic rings like the liberty Bell!


Cracked!

[Hermie]

Damn that quote wasn't supposed to be in there

[Hermie]

I was referring to pp with the bell comment

[Hermie]

Sure! Your story is like Elton Jon! It ain't straight

[Hermie]

VOTE: blawb



My lynch pool was blawb or Thor. Thor is gone

[Hermie]

Mistange algebra and me are conf.town


Blawb and mhsmith are the 2 possible scums

[Hermie]

The way he seemed detached and distant. To me his play seemed quite similar. I was actually 90% sure he would flip red. But I do agree that killing Thor at that point was NOT a skilled player maneuver

[Hermie]

Really the only thing that could have happened is if algebra wasn't jailed by aelin. If that would be the case that could really screw us up.

[Hermie]

One other thing that really made my scum reader trip was his reaction to the false hammer.. the meh I'm town thing just screamed scum to me for some reason.

[Hermie]

Blawb is scum.

I tend to agree with that if you're town.

Edit to earlier take: Thor wasn't tr'ing blawb.

@hermie and @algebra: how well do you two understand basic night kill mechanics? Like, do both of you out thought and care into your night kills as scum and do you realize why Thor was such a mechanically bad shot? And have you ever taken wacky night shots just for the WIFOM?

I understand the concept of shooting conf players and leaving the possible mislynches, but my mafia play is so bad I rarely live past D1 or D2 as maf so I can't use them.

[Hermie]

And so I don't have any experience with lol nking

[Hermie]

I'm as confirmed as possible with out a mechanical or host conf. I pushed hard on the creeps lynch day 1. Mhsmith as well. Either of us would not have been very intelligent to have day 1 bussed our scum bud that hard. You are scum.

[Hermie]

Miss fo sho

[Hermie]

Here is the thing. I really think only algebra would make that kill. Unless it was gonna be sold as"I'm too smart to do that" kill. And in aelin did what she was supposed to algebra is conf town.

[Hermie]

Self vote = scum. Confirmed over and over.

[Hermie]

As I was writing this post, I just wanted to reinforce the point that I could be wrong about PP being inno. I'm doing my job as a townie and sharing my POV's and thoughts, so I kinda expect the same from everyone else. If you strongly disagree with me, I need to hear it, and I need to hear why. Collaboration is gonna win us this game.

So, here's where I'm at guys. I think that the scum lies between Smith and Thor. I'm sure of it. However, I do think that Thor is more scummy than Smith, bec

If I'm your #2 to the #1 Thor then I'd think you can

1) substantiate what is clearing on PP (and hermie but as pp is L-1 that's the priority)
2) substantiate the case against me

Since you've indicated a seemingly strong preference on the matter I'll give you time to impress me

UNVOTE:

PP still my #1 but not liking that post. If PP is clear you should be able to usefully explain why.

I knew you'd jump on that instantly. This reply itself is part of the reason I called you #2. I'll elaborate on both of your points, even though I have a sneaking suspicion nothing I say will be good enough for you.

1.)

What is clearing on PP and Hermie?

- I'll start with Hermie, since I can do this easily off the top of my head. As soon as I joined the game, I took note of the relationship that Hermie and Creeps had established with each other. Both of them knew each other on some other forums, and had played TvM's there. Creeps kept saying that he knew how Hermie acted as mafia, saying that Hermie was not acting like his "mafia self," but to be warned that Hermie would possibly vote him to get Creeps (the only person who supposedly knew Hermie's maf tells) out of the way. I stated well before Creeps was lynched that if one of them flipped red, the other was most certainly green. This is because they tunneled on each other, doing this weird dance of both buddying and trying to convince the town that they knew each other so well. However, neither of them could actually explain what tells to look for, which leads me to believe that they actually had no clue, and were simply attached at the hip given their relationship. Mafia wouldn't be so blatant and interact with each other the way Creeps and Hermie did if they were both mafia.

This is all a recap, because it's been stated before multiple times, and I was the first one to create the theory

before Creeps was even lynched.

Meaning, you've probably already read it, and are asking me about this again for reasons unbeknownst to me...

- I'll admit, there's not much "clearing" PP as you are expecting me to reveal.

There's about as much evidence of him being a townie as there is of you, me, or Thor for that matter.

However, now that I've looked back at Thor's posts, I can see the case that Thor is scum being much stronger than the case for PP being scum. Sure, Creeps could have tried the reverse psych mafia death move and named PP as scum to try and clear him (along with Hermie who was practically cleared by that lynch), but,

like I've said before

(are you reading?!), Creeps wasn't acting like the sharpest tool in the toolbox, and he might've just named PO to throw us off. What really made me want to look into a different potential suspect though was PP's attitude toward being lynched today. His ISO Posts #73-75 really convinced me that he truly believed he was a townie himself. It sounded like he really knew that there would another day after he got lynched. To further say that his reads shouldn't be treated as 100% correct after he dies was super convincing. I might be wrong about PP, but I bought his townie act when he was close to death.

~~~

2.)

Substantiate the case against you.

First of all, I still think Thor is more scummy than you, so you're just my backup suspect at the moment if he isn't scum. Now, here are a couple reasons why I think you could possibly be scum.

Unfortunately over the last few days I came down with some nasty food poisoning D:. Slightly better now.
Before I say more; remember what I said a while back about how I will explain why you should not lynch me.
Wait how many days are left before EOD?

Yes we saw it. And now that you've chosen to re-highlight it, there's no way that scum team would have missed it. It's abundantly clear you're softing a town PR. So you basically have two choices:

1) start being useful and game-solving
2) claim your role

I'd prefer you choosing #1 myself. But if you're going to spend the game coasting on your PR soft, then you should claim. Either claiming jk/cop/tracker or claiming bp/doc (no need at all to get more specific than that).

- I haven't forgotten that you were the reason that Aelin claimed. This post, above all others, was the reason that our Jailor claimed and died for pretty much no reason at all. I mean, nobody was even voting Aelin! And while your response to this is that you said you preferred your Option #1 in your post above, that's arguably just surface for an ulterior motive if you're scum. Convincing Aelin to claim did nothing good for the town, and was

extremely

pro-scum.

- You've done a weird amount of attempting to confirm yourself as a townie. As I said in my first post of this game, townies know that they are town. They don't feel the need to reinforce this at every opportunity they get. Scum, on the other hand, feel like they have to convince everyone that they are a townie, even when they aren't the ones immediately under the microscope. Surely everyone can agree with me on this concept, it's just basic mafia theory. So when I simply point out that you are tunneling on PP (you have been all game), I get a bit suspicious when I receive a reply like this, attempting to "confirm" yourself as a townie:

Mhsmith seems to be tunneling on PP. I'm pulling the newbie card; I'm not sure if this is a townie move or a scum move. I could see the aggressive townie stance, but I could also see the scum trying to pull out their pitchforks to blend in with the mob. @Thor - This is a game theory question for you, I guess.

Game theory wise it could be either. If I'm the last scum and need to achieve three mislynches, PP is absolutely one of the players I'd need to mislynch. Mechanically, misa is clear, algebra is like 99% clear, basically he's clear barring aerin game throwing), which means the remainder is Hermie, PP, Thor, and you. All things considered, Hermie would be a difficult mislynch given his activity levels, and I don't recall his interactions with creeps looking like bussing at all, so if I'm the last scum, I probably want nothing to do with pressuring him. Of course, if I'm town then it's just an actual town read on his slot.

I'd actually say that what is most clearing for me is'nt what I'm doing D2, but what I did D1. Do you think that I bussed the roleblocker, especially given that said theoretical bus started BEFORE I'd found out whether Aelin was cop or jailkeeper? Just mechanically speaking, a bus of a roleblocker against cop/doctor (especially an outed cop) is HORRIBLE play, since the cop can be protected by the doctor and then you're basically in a lock loss situation unless you happen to hit the doctor N1 AND the cop doesn't peek you that night. And even in JK/BP, it's a difficult situation, since whoever is jailed is mechanically cleared, and the BP is another mechanical clear, which means that there are five non clear VT claims on the board, and you have to mislynch three of them. That's really difficult to pull off, all the more so since you no longer have the same kind of freedom to pick the players at night who you want gone.

Now, I'm not going to say that it's totally impossible for me to have bussed there, but I will say that it goes pretty decently against my meta (I very rarely bus - http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... e-Will-LOL is one of the very rare examples of me actively bussing a buddy from the start [as opposed to hopping on at the end or just distancing when I'm in a situation where I know I'm going down] ). For me to be the last goon, I'd have had to have chosen to bus the roleblocker when doing so would create an extra an unneccesary mechanical clear (algebra) AND a mislynch (PP in this case) was pretty reasonably on the board. If you go back to day one when Thor was pushing me to switch to PP, if I'm a goon that's an incredibly tempting moment to hop off onto PP and see what happens, potentially dumping the blame for the mislynch onto Thor if/as needed later on.

Bussing meta, fwiw, is actually why I'm somewhat suspicious of Thor. I know that he's talked before about basically never bussing, and that when he's mafia he finds cases of townies looking sketchy to push on instead of his buddy or buddies. So within that framework, it does seem like this game is decently within what Thor as mafia would be trying to do. Which is part of why I want PP sorted; if PP is mafia, then Thor pushing him over Creeps doesn't really matter. If PP is town, though, it looks worse.

As if that weren't enough, you continue on in your next post, creating a list of people to go through for an "easy win" for the town. Conveniently, you aren't on this list of three. And coincidentally, if all three in that list are townie, and we lynch Thor, PP, and myself, you would win if you were scum.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that among the non-cleared VT claims, Hermie looks very good given his D1 push on creeps, and it's very likely between PP, Thor, and Blawb. For each of those slots there's a thereotical framework for why they might "fit" as the last mafia:

PP - creeps didn't want to get on PP's counter-wagon (and shaded late in his ISO but didn't vote), PP shaded but didn't vote creeps

Thor - pushing a townie who looks bad instead of the roleblocker (and the RB is especially a slot that you don't want to bus on D1)
Re-skimming ISO's, I will say that Creeps spent a substantial amount of time D1 talking to Thor, which is something I don't normally expect from teammates,

Blawb - the Creeps wagon never quite got the kind of really aggressive resistance and counter-wagon that you might expect from a RB wagon, it's plausible that the reason for this was that his buddy was a total inactive

To me PP seems the likeliest. I'm curious what everyone else actually has to say, though. We're in a situation where we're doing really well, but it is NOT a locked game, and every lynch matters, so if there's a good case for PP as town, or an especially good case on someone else, I'd really like to hear it.

So, without going into further detail, I'll just end this by saying that you are #2 on my potential scum list because the tone and mentality of a classical townie are missing from your posts. Feeling the need to validate yourself is scummy, for reasons already stated.

And I didn't do this to "impress you," thank you very much. The whole purpose of this post is to draw you out on stage for a continued discussion tomorrow if Thor or PP (whoever we end up lynching) flip townie. I'm just making sure that all bases are covered.

Hmmm

[Hermie]

What happened to lynching Smith? He looks like too hard of a mislynch?

[Hermie]

Perse was a total null to me. Especially with the dice roll tag on his vote.

[Hermie]

Spoiler:

Hello. Sorry for dropping in so late. Been rather busy with midterms and studying. I'll try not to make a habit out of it. ^^

Wow... OK. Totally different atmosphere here than I'm used to. Alright then...

Um, well I don't know who to vote for. I think people who are quick to throw around accusations look a little more suspicious in my opinion. Other than that, I don't have much.

I'm not saying I don't want to lynch anyone. I just don't know who I would vote for. A lot of things have been said, and it can be a little hard to keep up with sometimes. Haha.

1) Aelin
2) Creeps20
3) Hermie
4) MisaTange
5) PenguinPower [SE]
6) rb [SE]
7) sinkongoreng
8) Thor665 [IC]

Original Roll String: 1d8 (STATIC)

1 8-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

VOTE: Thor665

Everyone said to randomly vote, so I randomly voted.

[Hermie]

I've still been thinking about that night kill. It's not rational for blawb to have made that kill but I still feel like he is the most likely scum. If he isn't scum I would probly be suspicious of algebra or mhsmith and one is mechanically confirmed and the other I strongly feel is town.

I guess I'm saying I'll probly only vote for blawb unless algebra becomes active and suspicious.

[Hermie]

Blawb it's over for you rn. What are you?

[Hermie]

Gg! I figured you were I isoed your posts and I noticed they were lots of words but not much content. My scum play is sooo poor. I wish like every thing I was better as maf. In these newb games tho my town play isn't so bad.

[Hermie]

Most likely I would have hit you. Voice of reason and I can be swayed by a post I like. Misa would have been a good shot except for the bulletproof part. Thor was a threat but he was only possible mislynch with out alot of work.

[Hermie]

Yea creeps just kinda screwed you up. His maf play is as bad as mine.

[Hermie]

It's Brandon!! He isn't trolling us.

[Hermie]

Lol you could have done it. I was worried today. You seemed like you knew exactly how to trigger me and I had to hold down a big long rant post with lots of caps that would have made me look very scummy.



Instead I isoed you and found a few posts where you attempted to prove yourself as town and I was gonna drag those up.

[Hermie]

He would have had issues with both you and Thor in-game tho. But that definitely would have had possibilities. More so then killing you even. You weren't convinced blawb was scum.

[Hermie]

So wasting a night on a bp is actually smart? I guess vt claims have little weight..

[Hermie]

Yea.. I was hella confused day 2 with blawbs post.

[Hermie]

Would be interesting to put a 1 shot vig in instead of bp. With a newb game that could get hectic but entertaining.

[Hermie]

-EV?

[Hermie]

Meaning he is more likely to hit a town player then a maf.

[Hermie]

Quick game and good push blawb!