Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Lukewarm]

A game. It is happening. Not gonna be able to be around tonight. Please give me an interesting thread to read upon my return. Thanks!

[Lukewarm]

I'm back-

Lukewarm – I hated this entrance. Like, this feels like textbook maf… where you just feel like you HAVE to enter. Cause, entering going “I’m not gonna be around, give me stuff to come back to tomorrow” like, why even enter at all at that point, why NOT wait till tomorrow?

I am in fact an absolute masochist of a person who derives joy from reading and engaging in a game of mafia - especially one with a lot of players I know and like. . Seeing the game start pm, but at the exact moment that I could not read and engage with the thread was unfortunate, so I did the best I could with a drive by wave hello at the thread.

---

takosubo's entrance (10) felt off to me, especially coming from an alt that from what I can tell has never played with Bell before. Like a level of familiarity with bell to know that he normally is pretty easy to read, but a strange way to approach him if you are familiar. I don't know that it is more likely to come from scum, but it did catch my attention.

The flurry of votes on datisi is surprising. Think that Fey's is the least suspicious of the bunch tho.

Liking Fire for town.

---

Kovu coming in hot to this game with a full reads list first post page 4. Looked to see if they just play this way - turns out they only have 1 completed game on site. And they never make a reads list a single time in that game? That was a rep in, so its a little hard to compare across, but I would expect it make MORE sense to start with a reads list as a rep in.

I keep going back and forth on this as I read it again. Like, on one hand it feels a bit performative and several of the reads feel bad, but on the other hand why would scum!him give so much stuff for people to nitpick over and obviously this early most of the reads are gonna have weak bases

(Yes, I had to google what the plural of "basis" was, and no I do not like that the answer was bases)

---

I am incredibly suspicious of Marci voting on page 1 (19), and even doubling down with 56 - because it is my experience that Marci normally holds her vote forever because she does not want to vote until she is sure of her reads (and constantly second guesses reads)
VOTE: Marci

[Lukewarm]

Other thought that I had was that Dunn never makes post 50 if partnered with Datisi.

I feel like he might make it as either alignment, but I doubt they are ever partnered.

[Lukewarm]

and like ok fine you don't have the same meta read as i do thats not scummy, but... i also don't quite get it cause like... you're saying that you think he lacks confidence as town and that you think his mafia game is similar... so why is him not responding to votes more likely to come from scum than town? like whats the difference there that you expect to see?

it sounds like you're saying "you're like this as town" -> "i expect you to be like this as mafia too" -> ??? -> "so the way you acted makes you scum"

and i don't get what the missing step there is

I don't really see why it has to be

so, so, so

hard for you to understand what im seeing... but okay!

datisi being town just seems more unlikely, i think theres more benefits for scum him to ignore the votes on him.. whats so hard to understand about it???

I made my last post without even reading this. Yeah. I think marci is just scum here.

[Lukewarm]

For Val, nulltown maybe? Tako genuinely could be scum though. I can agree that the content is not great there.

VOTE: LavarManos

This feels like fake nuance.

This is a strange take given they were directly asked to present reads on those two slots.

I think this would be a better point if they had made this kind of statement while just making comments on the game, and were forcing content

[Lukewarm]

I would like to point out that Marci voted Datisi in post 19 saying "I THINK HE COULD BE SCUM"

But the reason being presented once he became a real wagon was because he was ignoring votes - which distinctly cannot be the reason why she voted him originally in post 19, because Datisi had zero posts between Baltar casting the first vote on Datisi and Marci voting Datisi

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

I THINK I LIKE
VOTE: darisi
RN
I THINK HE COULD BE SCUM!!

VOTE: Datisi

Vibes.

OMG DO U QCTUALLY HAVE VIBES ON DATISI OR IS THAT A JOKE-

do you think me ignoring the votes on me is scummy? why?

my impression of when ur town is that ur kinda good at finding stuff out, but you don't have enough confidence in yourself and your reads, so i think ur mafia gameplay would be kinda similar? i dont think ive ever seen u as mafia before but i think its very possible u would avoid responding to votes because you don't want to make it a "big deal" and the focus of the game, i think as scum u dont want the spotlight even close to u..? i imagine you very timid as scum >.<

SO
i think ignoring the votes on u is scummy :>

Like here is her opening 3 posts this game:

-She votes him super early, seemingly with reason given the way she framed the vote (which is again, out of character for her)
-Reacts to someone else voting him
-Makes it clear that she is serious voting him because he ignored the votes.

[Lukewarm]

@Marci why did you think that datisi could be scum as of post 19?

[Lukewarm]

Also @Marci, have you started participating in RVS and/or early voting in recent games?

[Lukewarm]

Also @Marci, have you started participating in RVS and/or early voting in recent games?

Hmmm.

I decided to check this myself

Spoiler:

2268. Town. First vote was post 199 / iso 29

1026 Town. first vote was post 687 / iso 45

2084. Town. First vote was post 335 / iso 20

2090. Town. Literally never voted, was killed day 1 with no votes

2058. Town. 512 / 22

2054. Town. 122 / 10

2052. Town. 304 / 19

-------------------

839. Town. First vote was first post, RVS

Looking at these games I found exactly 1 counter example where she, as town, did actually do rvs. However, I noticed that she actually never mentioned that player again until she moved her vote in post 193. Which, compared to her doubling down on the datisi vote still leaves me suspicious tbh.

pedit: I see that marci found a couple more I need to go look at

[Lukewarm]

I think that Marci froze up *really* badly exactly one time, and that perception of her as scum has really just stuck around in the general player base.

Since that game I played against scum her like 2/3 times and I don't think that that is a particularly accurate representation of her scum game.

[Lukewarm]

How big a % is this her voting behavior and how much *other vibes* in your opinion? Are those vibes similar or dissimilar to the first few of her posts in viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89094 since that seems like her most recent other game? (bonus points if you don't look up her alignment in that game before doing this)

The vote caught my eye, but it was the way that she followed up with it - both with datisi and defending the read when talking to fire - that really made it a scum read.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: even though these posts are not as early on as page one, i feel like theyre both fairly early on as well. which shows how this isn't a good point I think, look through the games if you want, but uhh the second one may be embarassing........ so maybe dont talk about it my ego will be shattered..

VOTE: t3

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

VOTE: looker

Okay, looked at these two games as well. I don't think that the T3 one compares at all, because T3 appeared to be doing his stick of trying to be the scummiest looking player as early as possible lmao.

But I do kinda see some similarities with the looker one...

I'll rethink in the morning.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm

– I hated this entrance. Like, this feels like textbook maf… where you just feel like you HAVE to enter. Cause, entering going “I’m not gonna be around, give me stuff to come back to tomorrow” like, why even enter at all at that point, why NOT wait till tomorrow? And “give me an interesting thread” feels really awkward to me, like, who says that? Cause normally people start complaining when there’s too many posts. Yes, I’m scum leaning Luke off 1 post, the post is that bad.

I wanted to mention that this one I sort of agree with, like I think that it is pretty weird of him to feel the need to pop in and waste a post like that
He obviously wanted to make his presence known!!!

I will say that chiming in to agree with someone who said something negative about me immediately after I voted her is not a good look imo

She had already made multiple posts after my entrance post, and had made a post after Kovu's post without comment. The thing that changed was that I started scum reading her.

----

@ Marci, can you explain why you think that that would be out of character for me?

[Lukewarm]

Datisi wagon bad imo

Think Datisi >Rand town

Scum on Datisi probably VP and or Marci?

Possibly a late vote like fay

I find this wagon analysis confusing. When you say it is bad, do you mean scummy?

And if you think the wagon is scummy, why are you most suspicious of the first and second vote on the wagon, over votes 3-5?

---

something about the way he voted Marci, and then after that, saying he hadnt seen it before, in 97 called out a post as sus when my response to it finding it suspicious was right there...

I am not sure what you mean by this. I read up to post 85 (the most recent post at the time), and then started typing my big post. By the time I finished it, Marci made post 86. I was saying that I wrote the section about marci from my big post before post 86 from marci ever existed.

(And yes, I am aware that there is a long time between Marci making 86 and me posting 94. Mid post I kinda got lost in doing some meta on Kovu and some meta on Meuh that did not end up making the post because I kinda talked myself out of the point as I went).

It does feel odd to see someone say they’re confident they’re scum then start asking questions

I spotted a thing that made me think she was more likely to be scum, I started digging into it. Are you truly surprised at follow up questions there?

[Lukewarm]

A good part of me wants to call Luke town for not knowing who I am tbh, cause I know someone in maf chat has said who I am, it's not hard to figure out, but then I think about it, and Luke says he looked at my "1 game, and I didn't out reads there" ok sure, but I definitely outed myself that game, so like, you didn't see that happen? but you read it? interesting... idk, it's not a solid read I'd die on, but found it worth mentioning.

I did not read the game. Or even you iso.

I opened your iso, read the first few posts, and then scanned for a reads list, and did not see one.

[Lukewarm]

I’m ignoring most of the the questions (not that there are many) being thrown my way because they’re kind of meh.

Hello friend. I would like for you to not to do this.

My follow up question from you was because your comment on my interaction with marci did not feel like a Real Thought, and I would like for you to engage with it more. Thanks!

[Lukewarm]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

I played in a hydra with Marci a little while ago, and I made an RVS vote. She was upset with me for casting that vote. Like, openly said that I should not have made that RVS vote against someone that she was not sure that was scum -- IN THREAD -- not even saving it for our hydra chat.

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

That being said, my scum read on her has mellowed a bit since last night, but that was the major red flag that I was dealing with at the time.

[Lukewarm]

I’m terrible at alt guessing but I have zero clue who kovu is.

After they said they slipped in their other game, I checked. They are andante.

[Lukewarm]

I've never seen andante wall post before so I'm not sure why it would be obvious that this was andante

I think that they meant that at least 1 member of the scum team would have seen their alt slip in the other game. Which would have required a scum team to go scope them out i think, because there is very little over lap between games. just enchant

Spoiler:

Players

1. Kovu
   (replaces ta vera)
   
   
2. Rosarium
   (replaces Klick, Salsabil Faria)
   
   
3. Save The Dragons
   
4. the worst*
   
5. HockeyFan
   
6. NorwegianboyEE
   
7. Enchant
   
8. Frogsterking

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I have not been here. Been running a little thin.

Main take away from the last couple pages is that I'm pretty sure dunn is always town here. I don't think scum dunn ever makes that argument about kovu (regardless of kovus alignment)

[Lukewarm]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

What changed? We you not just shooting down someone's scum read on her?

[Lukewarm]

Datisi wagon bad imo

Think Datisi >Rand town

Scum on Datisi probably VP and or Marci?

Possibly a late vote like fay

I find this wagon analysis confusing. When you say it is bad, do you mean scummy?

And if you think the wagon is scummy, why are you most suspicious of the first and second vote on the wagon, over votes 3-5?

@dwlee

[Lukewarm]

I think the wagon is on town!dats + there is scum on it

First two people I just found independently scummy and the "last vote more scummy than 3-5" is kinda baseless beyond I feel like it

Oh my bad.I just missed your answer.

[Lukewarm]

I don't know how I feel about the response.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I have not been here. Been running a little thin.

Main take away from the last couple pages is that I'm pretty sure dunn is always town here. I don't think scum dunn ever makes that argument about kovu (regardless of kovus alignment)

so you're town locking dunn for the exact reasons I no longer TR him?

If you scum read him for that then yes.

He saw a take from you that looked off (you town reading me because I didn't know who you were). Which tbh, doesn't really make sense - and appears to taken that as you potentially having just made up a reason to drop a read.

He then dug into it. Looking looking up your last game, and cross referencing that to the player list of this game. Even the line about Fey was him checking time stamps to see if you could have thought that fey was in your prior game to support the original thought, and at the end came to the conclusion that you could not have thought that because you realized who fey was after the original comment.

If that was not someone genuinely trying to figure out another slots alignment, then I don't know what is.

What even would be the scum motivation for his to do that? Is scum!Dunn so worried by you giving me a town read? Or so desperate to push you on page 9 of day 1?

No, I am pretty sure that Dunn is just town here who spotted a thing that made his suspicious, and then he went looking into it

[Lukewarm]

He then dug into it. Looking looking up your last game, and cross referencing that to the player list of this game.

Which, I also feel really good about town reading him for this, because "Is there a lot of overlap between this game and the last" was literally my own response to that conversation.

Spoiler:

I've never seen andante wall post before so I'm not sure why it would be obvious that this was andante

I think that they meant that at least 1 member of the scum team would have seen their alt slip in the other game. Which would have required a scum team to go scope them out i think, because there is very little over lap between games. just enchant

Spoiler:

Players

1. Kovu
   (replaces ta vera)
   
   
2. Rosarium
   (replaces Klick, Salsabil Faria)
   
   
3. Save The Dragons
   
4. the worst*
   
5. HockeyFan
   
6. NorwegianboyEE
   
7. Enchant
   
8. Frogsterking

[/spoi/ler]

Kovu (replaces ta vera)
Rosarium (replaces Klick, Salsabil Faria)
Save The Dragons
the worst*
HockeyFan
NorwegianboyEE
Enchant
Frogsterking

This is the player list in the game where Kovu slipped their identity

2. Fey
14. Kovu
18. Enchant

Fey is the only person who could reasonably be an alt of somebody else in that game, and then kovu and Enchant are the only two players.
However, Kovu says they think they know Fey's identity in post 172, but they already thought that somebody in maf chat revealed their identity in post 164.

And the only person in that game with Kovu is Enchant. And Kovu has no opinion there. So I don't really buy that they think the maf chat is discussing their identity and are clearing Lukewarm off of that.

[Lukewarm]

For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.

Have you played with Enchant before?

[Lukewarm]

Hello, and welcome to Luke's Daily Check-in!!!!!!

This just in, Luke does not want us to kill any of: Dunn, fire, Bell, Kovu, VP Baltar, Enchant, or LLD

And just who is Luke is willing to kill?

VOTE: Val!!!

[Lukewarm]

I would also be willing to go for Gammagooey

[Lukewarm]

My scum read on marci has softened exponentially. I am not town reading her, but she has made it pretty close to back to Null.

[Lukewarm]

I fought through a headache to get to through my catchup, and I am not willing to case out anything through it.

Might case gammagooey and/or val tomorrow if I'm feeling it.

[Lukewarm]

I would also be willing to go for Gammagooey

And maybe Meuh too?

Although, I don't think that Meuh and Gammagooey are ever partnered

[Lukewarm]

Also maybe this is me being annoying about taking "don't want to kill" being stronger than you might actually mean it but I feel like nobody except fire and Bell (post-claim and ONLY for today) being on that list is justifiable in my eyes

I meant, Don't want to kill Day 1. The bar is not incredibly high for that seeing as how we only get to kill 1 person

I feel like you're underestimating LLD (especially) & VPB's general ability as scum, Enchant has a very high chance of being my Invictus target by the end of the day if her posting doesn't improve, and Kovu's like. fine?

This feels rooted in the idea that my "I don't want to kill them" means that I am town locking them, so is largely away from my own thinking in a way that is hard for me to really engage with.

I don't think they look town yet but it does seem like you've played with Andante before and probably have a baseline idea of either their town or scum play.

Seeing you say this, I am realizing that I have played with literally everyone on my do not kill list lol.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think it's a good idea to share invictus targets tbh

Why?

You want your invictus shot to kill scum when you are night killed.

If scum know you are targeting scum, they just don't night kill you.

If scum know you are targeting town, you announce you are a safe target.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I made that more as an in general comment on my thoughts because multiple people had commented on it, and a couple people outed their targets - not really a response to you directly. I realize that I didn't make that clear

[Lukewarm]

The case for Val

----

I'm just going to run through his iso, since it is not very long.

32 - voting datisi for "vibes." imo, one of the scummier looking jump ons to that wagon.

74 - is a nothing post. Being discarded entirely

---

131 - Is long. Like really long. The entirety of the content of that post boils down to :
-Datisi felt off early.
-looking at the wagon building fast, making an either/or scenario that datisi is either scum or scum jumped on the wagon.
-Then arbitraily discounting the idea that scum jumped on the wagon.

Despite the length of 131, there is absolutely nothing about any other slot in the game other then Datisi and trying to keep the datisi wagon strong. All while saying that he can't articulate why he thinks that datisi is scum.

The final line: "Apologises to those who dislike wall posts, but I not sure of the alternative here." struck me as odd. It is self concious of the fact that he is wall posting, while saying that that is the only option this game (I infer because of post restrictions), but this is not multiple ideas that would normally seperated into different posts that have been condensed into 1 beacuse of the restriction.

This is a singular idea: Datisi feels off, datisi wagon good.

---

137-139-143 are all explicitly limited to defending himself from datisi (rightfully) calling out that val's 131 post appears heavily fluffed.

---

169/177 - is responding to kovu. What sticks out to me, is that in both of these posts, he calls out that people have told him that this is somehting that he should town read, but can't do it - but does not ever actually commit to a scum read. Just back to back posts on not town reading.

---

And then the more recent posts.

390/405 - These show an unusual level of self-focus.

Kovu called out 8 non-poster | Kovu wants people to scum read me
Kovu voted Lavar | Kovu voted Lavar BECAUSE of me

There is also a lack of critical thinking on what he is saying here.

"Still skimming, but is anyone else getting the feeling from the last couple of pages that Kovu really wants someone to scumread me for a lack of activity"

and

"my recollection was that the genesis of that read was that Lavar had dared to not call me scummy, and the fact they even considered me 'nulltown' must be evidence of TMI"


If Kovu thinks that Lavar is scum because they tmi'd Val as town, then kovu's leading theory was that val is town. (yeah, yeah, they are not preflip assuming they are town. I get that.)

But they saw kovu complain about the people not posting, mentioning them because they were the person who was afk the longest. They jumped to the assumption that kovu was scum reading them, and went into defense mode.

Bell points out that they are not even voting him.

He looks at who they are voting, and tries to wrap it around to fit the same narrative he just set up, without thinking about the above.

---

524 - We are back to Datisi. Pointing back to 131, and repeating where he arbitrairly dismissed the idea that scum could/would have joined a town!datisi wagon.

[Lukewarm]

Reading his posts, he does not feel like he is actively trying to sort the PL.

He jumped onto the Datisi on page 2. And then he has road that vote through his whole iso.

The only other person he has engaged in in a substantive way was Kovu, who he has not even committed to a scum read on. More "Can't town read" and "it does appear Kovu has somewhat of a preoccupation with my slot."

It feels like it skips the step of asking whether that makes Kovu town or scum, or why scum kovu would do that or why town kovu wouldn't be, ect.

Other then that, I can't see where he is trying to sort any slot. I cannot tell you a single town read that Val has after re-reading his entire iso.

[Lukewarm]

he has road

I am devastated that I wrote these words with my own two hands.

**He has ridden**

[Lukewarm]

he has road

I am devastated that I wrote these words with my own two hands.

**He has ridden**

You type with your hands? I prefer using my fingers

With my own 10 fingers even

[Lukewarm]

Where do you stand on Datisi, Lukewarm?

I don't have a strong read on him (hence him not being on either my Do Not Kill list or my I Want to Kill list).

I am suspicious of the way the wagon formed on him, which makes me feel like he is more likely to be town.

I struggle to see 6 townies all deciding that he is scum by page 2 - especially since I did not get any scum pings on him at that time.

From then, I got the feeling that he was playing on his back foot, but I find that to be NAI.

[Lukewarm]

To save the posts for you of asking/questioning, etc, I'm Ydrasse.

You basically already outed with 560 lol

[Lukewarm]

Is it because I said I didn't want you to die today? lol

[Lukewarm]

I haven't reread the kovu thing yet, but I can shortly now that I got some work done this morning.

ok, I read the kovu thing, and if I'm being generous, I think town!Val could have latched onto it because Kovu decided to direct quote them. I think Val is making much more of how hard people were "shading" datisi voters than what was really happening, but I also think if val is town, they are just tunneled beyond belief.

So basically, this exercise was useless.

HOWEVER,

It did lead me to reread Val's first wall on you Datisi, and that contains their extensive explanation of the "I'm not going to give reads because invictus" thing:

given the invictus mechanic, if this is a game I ought to be telegraphing exactly how my reads stand at all times. In regular games, I think that is largely how one should play, although I know there are disagreements on that score, but I wonder if the argument for playing ones cards closer to ones chest is stronger in this game than others. One the one hand, if you are right and are openly suspecting scum that might dissuade them from killing you at night and leaves you alive to continue to push those scum, but if you are wrong, and scum can reasonably infer you might have another town as the target of your invictus, there is the risk of handing scum a free two-for-one. Given the number of D1 TvT shitfights I have found myself in over the course of my mafia career, I am inclined not to choreograph my exact moves at least for today and until I feel much more comfortable I am on the right track.

I'm debating if this feels way more indepth and personal reasons based ("given teh number of D1 TvTshitfights I have found myself in") than scum might concoct? IDK. I think it's a kind of silly stance, but the question is if Val truly believes this is a good approach ... and maybe they do?

Something that might influence this angle coming from Val is the fact that the single largest day 1 TvTshitfight I have ever witness or been a part of was a day 1 TvTshitfight between me and Val lol.

actually commenting on the quote tho, I can actually see why Val would want to voice exactly 1 scum read this day phase, unless his read on Datisi shifted, and then voice exactly 1 scum read after that.

But I don't understand why he is not town hunting.

[Lukewarm]

Also, hi! I'm here! I'm catching up

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

This is unironically the most town indicative post that meuh has made so far this game.

[Lukewarm]

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Does this mean that you expect my posts to make you go ": O" if I am town, and you don't expect to see any posts that make you go ": O" if I am scum? lol

[Lukewarm]

okay, screw this. I liked the idea of the gimmick

I literally anyone shocked to learn that this was a real restriction that they had?

[Lukewarm]

Guys, I hate to break this news to you since Marci has become like a proper wagon --- but I actually think that she is town now

[Lukewarm]

My list of people that I do not want to be the day 1 elimination has grown to:

1. Bell
3. fireisredsir
4. Lady Lambdadelta
6. Lukewarm
7. Dunnstral
9. Meuh
11. marcistar
14. Kovu
15. VP Baltar
18. Enchant
20. gorilla

[Lukewarm]

why?

I really did not like the way that her scum read on datisi played out, but her reaction to being under pressure/suspicion feels distinctly like town marci imo

[Lukewarm]

My list of people that I do not want to be the day 1 elimination has grown to:

1. Bell
3. fireisredsir
4. Lady Lambdadelta
6. Lukewarm
7. Dunnstral
9. Meuh
11. marcistar
14. Kovu
15. VP Baltar
18. Enchant
20. gorilla

Why is LLD on this list and not RR?

LLD is on this list because I would expect scum!LLD to be doing more here. I know that feels like a shitty reason to give her a pass, but it is what I would expect from her. I know that she likes playing scum, and that she has not been scum much recently - enough to bemoan her town streak - with the sole exception that I know of being a game where her scum partner scum slipped by posting in a thread that was not the scum chat something that condemned him and cleared like 4 townies, and that being her only scum game recently did not leave her very happy.

I think that scum!LLD would be excited to be scum in a game, not nearly absent from thread. Like, even after her vacation was over, she just poked her head in and then left.

I am not town locking her or anything, but the above thought was enough for me to not want her to go down day 1.

---

As for R&R, I have not really been reading their posts that closely because of the fake pr, so I largely have no thoughts on them at all really

[Lukewarm]

You have seen me have literally zero spark in town games before, and have the time of my life in scum ones, so the comparison doesn’t really work.

I have fun sometimes and sometimes I don’t depending on how into mafia I am.

See: Romance, Mare, etc.

Hypothermia for the scum variant of those two.

You also seemed to have the time of your life being scum in guardians of the fortress

[Lukewarm]

why?

I really did not like the way that her scum read on datisi played out, but her reaction to being under pressure/suspicion feels distinctly like town marci imo

hmm. i kinda felt that earlier (like around her response to you 106, and 213 specifically felt like how she posted in newbie 2090), but haven't liked her more recent posting much at all

i haven't played with her before (besides when she was gragas, which i only recently realized while looking at her past games), so maybe you have a better handle on her meta, idk. can you point out specific things that stood out to you that made you think that?

My experience with scum marci has been (except for the game that she completely froze) that under pressure she gets more aggressive, and largely omgus's.

She has not done either of those this game.

She is here, and posting - but she is not championing me as the scummiest person in the thread lol

[Lukewarm]

I wanna yeet Luke for calling LLD towny/ not wanting to yeet (same thing)

They are not the same thing.

Day 1 we have largely nothing to go off of, and lots of options since every player is still alive. The day is much easier to navigate if you really lower your standards for what lets you take people off your elim pile.

[Lukewarm]

Luke, your argument for LLD town is just that they’d be trying harder if they weren’t.
That’s well, not a good argument to make. We dunno what she’s dealing with and she’s not shy about focusing on what she needs to focus on.

The thoughts were not strong enough, or with enough conviction for me to think that she was town. It was a passing thought that was enough for me to not be interested in killing her this phase.

[Lukewarm]

I scumread her recent posting style too.

Have you played with marci before? lol

[Lukewarm]

Nah I disagree. Feels like she has been attacking Datisi and VPB a lot. You aren't even calling her scum anymore.

My thoughts do not relate to how she is reacting to me right now, when I am not calling her scum any more. It was how she reacted when I was calling her scum. Like, here is her reactions.

I am incredibly suspicious of Marci voting on page 1 (19), and even doubling down with 56 - because it is my experience that Marci normally holds her vote forever because she does not want to vote until she is sure of her reads (and constantly second guesses reads)
VOTE: Marci

Spoiler: even though these posts are not as early on as page one, i feel like theyre both fairly early on as well. which shows how this isn't a good point I think, look through the games if you want, but uhh the second one may be embarassing........ so maybe dont talk about it my ego will be shattered..

VOTE: t3

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

VOTE: looker

I would like to point out that Marci voted Datisi in post 19 saying "I THINK HE COULD BE SCUM"

But the reason being presented once he became a real wagon was because he was ignoring votes - which distinctly cannot be the reason why she voted him originally in post 19, because Datisi had zero posts between Baltar casting the first vote on Datisi and Marci voting Datisi

I never said it was my original reason for voting him, so why are you trying to say it as such? I thought ppl knew how i do naked votes unless ppl ask me about it

@Marci why did you think that datisi could be scum as of post 19?

DO U REALLY WANNA KNOW IT FEELS EMBARASSING...

Spoiler:

i thought maybe that 11 couldve been scummy originally... like compared to everyone elses votes..
i thought it looked a bit like he could be subtly trying to buddy fireisredsir by placing his vote on the same person that they did. and i dont really like what else he said in the post, it was just like complainy and it didnt feel good imo

Also @Marci, have you started participating in RVS and/or early voting in recent games?

IDK IF ANY OF MY PROOF WOULD COUNT FOR THIS
but i would say i try to.. but i dont think it happens all the time

When I first cased her, she engaged with me and my concerns.

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

i dont play large games often, but when i do it sure is a party isnt it?

And then when I followed up it was met with a lighthearted response here

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

What changed? We you not just shooting down someone's scum read on her?

It might be a shock to some people, but i can actually change my mind sometimes!!!!

And then here again as well.


These are the responses to me that I was referring to

[Lukewarm]

She did not freeze, and she did not attack.

She was present, she engaged, and she was relaxed

[Lukewarm]

idts

Gifs, emojis, caps, and exclamation marks are all consistently marci's posting style regardless of her alignment.

[Lukewarm]

Luke, why do you think Marci is vote camped from rvs if town?

The obvious answer would be that town!marci would continue to vote datisi if she continues to scum reads datisi.

Do you think that, if she were town, she would have started town reading datisi or scum reading someone else enough to move? If so, why?

[Lukewarm]

I am getting tired of seeing people declare that I am townreading LLD, when she is not a town read. Or a town lean even. AT BEST she is Null Town.

But that is literally all it takes for someone to not be my prefered elimination for the day.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lava

[Lukewarm]

I think scumreading other people at the very least. I'm not hard town reading datisi rn either, so I get that part, but I have a hard time imagining that someone uninformed doesn't gather other suspicions they want to chase over 700 posts later.

It's absolutely not a town to vote camp.

The funny thing, is that this is actually marci swapping back into how I expect her to use her vote as town compared to the RVS vote.

My experience is that Marci is very frugal with her votes. She does not use it for pressure. Basically at all.

We actually had a game, that she was struggling to find a scum read to the point that she cast Zero (0) votes all of day 1, all the way up to and including the point where she eliminated. She does not use her vote to solve or chase down suspicions or even set up a counter wagon to her own miselimination.

She votes when she is sure.

The surprising thing here is how early she was sure on Datisi this game -- not that she has not been moving it around.

[Lukewarm]

HOLD UP!!! LUKE IS BUSSING LAVAR. LETS GO. Like, LOOK AT THIS

For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.

LLD is on this list because I would expect scum!LLD to be doing more here.

VOTE: Lava

The only 2 in this game to say "X would do more as scum" AND they're not interacting with each other, it sounds like they discussed reads to give in maf chat, like, I don't think I've ever seen the SAME bad reasoning used before in a game...

So Lava anbd Luke maf, then Enchant and LLD are gonna be town

lol

[Lukewarm]

There is veru much wrong with that post, but I can't help but seeing that that clearly comes from town andante.

[Lukewarm]

There is veru much wrong with that post

Did I have a stroke?

-There is a lot wrong

or maybe even

-There is so much

But, even if I had spelled very correcrly, "there is very much wrong" would be horrible.

No one would read this game and believe me that I have an English degree.

[Lukewarm]

For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.

Have you played with Enchant before?

I actually agreed with you that that was a take that makes no sense if someone has ever played with enchant

[Lukewarm]

See my issue is, that argument "X would do more as scum" is just bad, but, the 2 people yall used it on are probably the only 2 in this table it makes 0 sense to use it on... LLD and Enchant do MORE as scum than town?? like... no

I think that it is a terrible thing to apply liberally to anyone. There are plenty of people that end up playing like potatoes as scum.

I just don't picture LLD that way. I picture her desire to win being higher while scum. There are several players who I picture that way, including myself actually.

You are welcome to disagree, but I would not vote her right here.

[Lukewarm]

You really cropped that one in huh. There is nuance to that post that you just completely ignored.

I think that it is a terrible thing to apply LIBERALLY to JUST ANYONE.

Because SOME PEOPLE play as potatoes as scum.

But I dont think that THIS PARTICULAR PERSON plays as a potato as scum.

On the contrary, I think that THIS PARTICULAR PERSON would have a stronger drive to win as scum then as town.

[Lukewarm]

I actually have the feeling that I have made this exact argument about LLD before in a different game lol

----

But, like I said. Its not even a strong read. Its just enough to get her above:

People I saw reason to suspect, and
People who were completely and totally unsorted.

Which puts her on the list of people I would not vote for here, since, you know, I would rather kill someone I saw a reason to suspect OR someone that was totally unsorted.

I did not even think it strongly enough to make the point, but you asked and I answered.

[Lukewarm]

My tinfoil is that Datisi and Marci are partners. Marci tried to bus Datisi early and could not justify it.

This is possibly the most bonkers take I have ever seen.

[Lukewarm]

Having seen luke temper and then reverse it leads me to believe the case there was initially deliberately exaggerated and oversold, and in truth is probably +town for luke as well as marci.

luke, would you say it's accurate that the original case was exaggerated and oversold?

I would not use either of those words personally.

When I first saw it, I really believed it to be the scummiest thing that had happened in the thread and if in that moment I was given the choice of who we would kill, it would have been Marci every time.

I do find that people often take my posts as absolutes, when they are often meant relatively. Like, at the time, from my POV marci seemed by far the likeliest person to flip scum, and when I express that people act as though I think that there is a 100% certainty that marci is scum which is never quite my stance. I am rarely at 100% certainty, and turns out when I am I am usually just tunneled.

[Lukewarm]

My tinfoil is that Datisi and Marci are partners. Marci tried to bus Datisi early and could not justify it.

This is possibly the most bonkers take I have ever seen.

Not even in my top 50.

This take on the other hand, I may have exaggerated and oversold.

[Lukewarm]

Having seen luke temper and then reverse it leads me to believe the case there was initially deliberately exaggerated and oversold, and in truth is probably +town for luke as well as marci.

luke, would you say it's accurate that the original case was exaggerated and oversold?

I would not use either of those words personally.

When I first saw it, I really believed it to be the scummiest thing that had happened in the thread and if in that moment I was given the choice of who we would kill, it would have been Marci every time.

I do find that people often take my posts as absolutes, when they are often meant relatively. Like, at the time, from my POV marci seemed by far the likeliest person to flip scum, and when I express that people act as though I think that there is a 100% certainty that marci is scum which is never quite my stance. I am rarely at 100% certainty, and turns out when I am I am usually just tunneled.

Actually, you know what. While this is true in general, I don't know that it is true here.

I was really sure that marci was scum before. But meh

[Lukewarm]

it is most of the same people who were on it before so it kinda makes sense that we would consolidate again, what's interesting is what new people decided to join and why they didn't want to before

As a new person who decided to join, it was mainly to save marci

I did not join before, because I thought (and still think) that Val is scummier.

Then Marci became the largest wagon, and I decided I did not want her to die, and my vote sitting on Val was not gonna accomplish that, and then there was movement onto Lava who was not on my Do Not Kill list, so I figured why not?

[Lukewarm]

I looked at his iso, and did not find a reason to not kill him here

[Lukewarm]

R&R can be town

[Lukewarm]

It's not too late for wagons to move around but if we do end up with two dueling wagons at the end of the day, and one flips town, it's probably a good idea to aim invictus shots at the other one, if there is no better target.

-Reason

This is someone who has been thinking about the best way to utilize a game mechanic for the benefit of the town. And it is a good conclusion. And they outed it.

Literally every other player on the player list was content parking their invictus shots on their secret / pet scum read, so there was no need to scum!RR to weigh in with this.

This is a townie.

[Lukewarm]

That was just short form for:

"I believe that this behavior is statistically more likely to come from a townie then from a dirty scum bag, there for I am of the opinion that this slot is statistically more likely to be a townie then a dirty scum bag. "

This is a townie is just easier to type out

[Lukewarm]

It depends if that’s Mena or S_S. S_S is fine with giving away some mechanics knowledge for friendly reads. They’ve done it before.

Was signed as SS's head of the hydra.

But I feel like the context matters. We were not having a discussion on the mechanic. I think that scum!SS would always out their mech knowledge if it was the topic of discussion.

But he just spontaneously blurted it out into the thread.

[Lukewarm]

That was just short form for:

"I believe that this behavior is statistically more likely to come from a townie then from a dirty scum bag, there for I am of the opinion that this slot is statistically more likely to be a townie then a dirty scum bag. "

This is a townie is just easier to type out

I'm aware, just poking fun!

I know. Twas banter. The smiley was supposed to give it away lol

[Lukewarm]

luke, what's your opinion on val's vote on lavar? 803

Don't have Big Thoughts.

I too would rather Lava to go over then Marci, and if in the future Lava or Marci or Val flip, they might enlighten us to others -- but I am not so 100% sure that Val is scum that him existing on the Lava wagon sways me in any way really.

I actually had a moment when he was talking about his read progression on me, that I questioned if I was wrong to scum read him anyways.

[Lukewarm]

Mine. Mine. Mine!

Got'em

[Lukewarm]

I’d like someone to tell me if Val’s focus is normally as narrow as it is this game.
To me they sound pretty realistic/natural. But there’s
What is either an AI aspect to them or it’s an idiosyncrasy of theirs.
I Don’t think I’ve played with Val before.

Wanna share Val?

I am surprised to see him so narrowly focused, but he did kinda announce that he was gonna do this

I was about to spell out who it is I mean by that, but it probably obvious whom falls into that category and I am wondering if, given the invictus mechanic, if this is a game I ought to be telegraphing exactly how my reads stand at all times. In regular games, I think that is largely how one should play, although I know there are disagreements on that score, but I wonder if the argument for playing ones cards closer to ones chest is stronger in this game than others.
...
Given the number of D1 TvT shitfights I have found myself in over the course of my mafia career, I am inclined not to choreograph my exact moves at least for today and until I feel much more comfortable I am on the right track.

[Lukewarm]

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Does this mean that you expect my posts to make you go ": O" if I am town, and you don't expect to see any posts that make you go ": O" if I am scum? lol

i dont remember ur scumgame that well but i remember usually when ur town u have alot of stuff but when i think about u this game my memories failing, i dont think uve gone out of ur way that much like u usually do as town

This makes sense actually.

This game has totally been on my back burner / not been a priority for me this day phase because I was more focused on fighting for my life in a different game, where I was scum. I actually just lost it today :/

[Lukewarm]

For the people scumreading Marci, her noticing that make me feel like she is genuinely keeping up with me / trying to sort me

[Lukewarm]

Marci, what did you think of my Val case?

[Lukewarm]

Post 530[/post and [post]531

[Lukewarm]

idk who else exists

Devastated

[Lukewarm]

also like if im scum ?? i fully made my datisi vote knowing that i would get backlash for doing an "rvs vote" from people who know me, which like, why do i want that?

Okay. I read this, and was felt like it was a bad arguement, becuase I did not think that marci would really purposefully not rvs vote, or really expect me to attack for it. So, I went and looked specifically at scum games of hers. (Originally I was looking at town games to see that it was in fact out of character for town her to do) -- and, scum!marci is totally self aware that she should not participate in RVS if she is trying to replicate her town game.

Spoiler:

Since Val and Vote both start with V and linguistic logic will not be denied

portia and pavowski both start with a p, which makes u teammates try to fight this undeniable logic

Why not vote yet in the game - do you normally not RVS.

I was wondering the same thing. Why no vote yet, Marci? You've certainly had the opportunity.

i just normally dont vote for awhile, i usually wait until theres something that feels like a good vote. ^.^ i think theres only one game i "participated in rvs" in

Subject: Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

anyways

@Marci lets speed elim Cabd this game

VOTE: cabd

sure i need my revenge

She says, but with no vote. smh

yeye gotta beat my world record

Like doubled down on NOT doing an RVS vote when I tried to prod her into doing an RVS joke thing with me.

[Lukewarm]

I may end up deferring to Mena's read here, but in the meantime... how many times have you played with town!Cakez? I think "confidence way too high to believe is natural" describes his towngame quite well.

i haven't played with him but i read a bit of his games

scum, FFXIV: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87655&user_select%5B%5D=26092
town, pokemon theme: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87795&user_select%5B%5D=26092

looking at his d1 isos, i think there's def an overconfidence in both, but to me it feels closer to his scumgame actually

I just read through start of his iso from both of those games, and through this one. And I frankly did not see anything that really stood out as "present in 1 but not in the other."

Can you tell me what makes you feel like it was more similar to the scum game listed or different then the town game listed?

[Lukewarm]

Lava what is your read on dwlee?

[Lukewarm]

Lava what is your read on dwlee?

Their posts have declined in quality over time. I think Dwlee would be more apologetic as scum wrt activity and reading others based off of it. I'll keep my vote on Datisi for now.

@gorilla What was you point?
@Kovu I have played for two years on and off

ok and follow up to that question, are you and luke friends? have you played many games with luke? what is your relationship to luke?

This is the first time I have ever encountered lava

[Lukewarm]

Nobody wants to lim Enchant because their slot is a nothing burger with no interactions to work with
Better to Invictus it

I don't want to elim enchant because when I saw this post, I thought it more likely to come from town enchant then scum enchant. This is actually the exact moment I took my invictus off of him (it started there pre-game lol)

[Lukewarm]

Oh. Dropped the relevant quote

why do you need to know what bells pr is enchant -.-

Because i am PR too

Its not a strong feeling, but it was enough for me to look other places

[Lukewarm]

The notion of "forcing someone to participate" when we're a day from deadline is strange.

Not really? Scum are most vulnerable at the end of day.

Wolf pop in

That was my exact reaction too. Which is why I asked him to give a read on Dwlee.

[Lukewarm]

Oh. Dropped the relevant quote

why do you need to know what bells pr is enchant -.-

Because i am PR too

Its not a strong feeling, but it was enough for me to look other places

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If this post was supposed to mean anything, I did not get it lol

[Lukewarm]

The notion of "forcing someone to participate" when we're a day from deadline is strange.

Not really? Scum are most vulnerable at the end of day.

The info we get from it, the people behind the push and the nature of it being a flashwagon all point to it being a better wagon than Dwlee.

I don't think so. How are any of the factors you mentioned different between my wagon and the dwlee wagon?

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

Uh, what dip after pressure?
Normally, I would townread a lurker like Dwlee for posting any content near the end of day, but this post just isn't right lol

I actually hated his series of posts.

Dwlee is building up as a counter wagon to Lava. Lave checks in and makes two posts supporting the wagon there without calling dwlee scummy. Like, they were both pro-dwlee wagon ideas but presented in a way that was completely divorced from thinking about dwlee's alignment.

Then slight shade onto dwlee.

It felt like it started with the idea that dwlee wagon is good because it can save me, and skipped past stopping to think about if dwlee was scum or not. Then looking for something to have issue with.


Not sure how to feel about the then turn around to calling him town tho

[Lukewarm]

Actually, I still hate it. He made a small comment on not calling him scum, but totally left the door open to join the wagon later.

I'll keep my vote on Datisi

for now.

I don't really want to vote Dwlee

yet

[Lukewarm]

Ok but if Lava is scum why not just join the Datisi wagon outright?

I mean the Dwlee wagon

Not wanting to look like he was opportunistically jumping onto the counterwagon of someone who he has not mentioned a single time in his entire iso prior?

First needing to stop and find reasons to think about it, and for it to look natural. Like, that is very much what I thought that 1042 was doing. And even looking at 1045, "Their posts have declined in quality over time. "

[Lukewarm]

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-03 13:48:00).[/color][/size][/font]

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Fey	0	10
fireisredsir	0	10
Lady Lambdadelta	0	10
Malakittens	0	10
Lukewarm	0	10
Dunnstral	0	10
Rhyme and Reason	0	10
Meuh	0	10
Val89	0	10
marcistar	0	10
Dwlee99	0	10
Gammagooey	0	10
Kovu	0	10
VP Baltar	0	10
Datisi	0	10
LavarManos	0	10
Enchant	0	10
SirCakez	0	10
gorilla	0	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

Hello friends, it is time for things to happen.

Please consolidate onto Lava.

Lava should probably claim in their next post, or for ever hold their peace tbh

[Lukewarm]

Unofficial vote count

LavarManos(8) gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99, Datisi, Bell

marcistar(3) (497), (703), (717)

Datisi(2) marcistar (19), LavarManos (950)

Lady Lambdadelta(1) Enchant (759)

Dwlee (7) Kovu Fey Lady Lambdadelta Gammagooey VP Baltar SirCakez
Not Voting(3) Dunnstral, Malakittens (130) Rhyme and Reason

Lava at e-3
dwlee at e-4

We got 18 hours to find the rest of the votes for one of those to happen

[Lukewarm]

Unofficial vote count

LavarManos(8) gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99, Datisi, Bell

Datisi(2) marcistar (19), LavarManos (950)

Lady Lambdadelta(1) Enchant (759)

Dwlee (7) Kovu Fey Lady Lambdadelta Gammagooey VP Baltar SirCakez
Not Voting(3) Dunnstral, Malakittens (130) Rhyme and Reason

Lava at e-3
dwlee at e-4

We got 18 hours to find the rest of the votes for one of those to happen

Edit: the marci line should have been deleted. She has zero votes

[Lukewarm]

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Enchant was not in his kill list. Dunn however was in his townbin list

[Lukewarm]

very clearly using bad logic wHy ArE yOu UsInG tHe NoTeS pT bAltEr?!?!?

Agree with this

To play devil's advocate, I do think that a town Datisi would be on the look our for an awkward mention of keeping notes on a game from Baltar, because he previously did a meta check on the fact whether Baltar comments on keeping note as scum.

Tanner=Datisi

Spoiler:

mmm, vp, you mentioned notes? what kinda notes are you keeping?

do you make notes in a similar fashion when you're scum?

because it's like, (1) i remember you once mentioning how you were taking notes when catching up in jungle oligarchy and (2) some details like that are something that almost never occurs to me to fake as scum so i'm like if *that* is a galaxy brain pocket then bruh

Tanner frantically ctrl+fing my scum games rn for the word "notes" to pull out an aha for some shit I don't remember saying because he is too afraid to power hammer imaginality.

first of all, fuck you, i wasn't ctrl+f'ing "note" in your scumgames from last year

second of all what in the everloving fuck is this:
viewtopic.php?p=11943578#p11943578
viewtopic.php?p=11956698#p11956698
viewtopic.php?p=11956705#p11956705
viewtopic.php?p=11956721#p11956721

like, the amount of "MY NOTES" is actually agh

though to be fair, it looks fairly more natural in jungle oligarchy where he was like "in my notes i have it that datisi's slot is totally scum" (it was not btw) and this game it looks more like "did i mention i have notes so very townie only townies have notes right?"

[Lukewarm]

very clearly using bad logic wHy ArE yOu UsInG tHe NoTeS pT bAltEr?!?!?

Agree with this

To play devil's advocate, I do think that a town Datisi would be on the look our for an awkward mention of keeping notes on a game from Baltar, because he previously did a meta check on the fact whether Baltar comments on keeping note as scum.

Tanner=Datisi

Spoiler:

mmm, vp, you mentioned notes? what kinda notes are you keeping?

do you make notes in a similar fashion when you're scum?

because it's like, (1) i remember you once mentioning how you were taking notes when catching up in jungle oligarchy and (2) some details like that are something that almost never occurs to me to fake as scum so i'm like if *that* is a galaxy brain pocket then bruh

Tanner frantically ctrl+fing my scum games rn for the word "notes" to pull out an aha for some shit I don't remember saying because he is too afraid to power hammer imaginality.

first of all, fuck you, i wasn't ctrl+f'ing "note" in your scumgames from last year

second of all what in the everloving fuck is this:
viewtopic.php?p=11943578#p11943578
viewtopic.php?p=11956698#p11956698
viewtopic.php?p=11956705#p11956705
viewtopic.php?p=11956721#p11956721

like, the amount of "MY NOTES" is actually agh

though to be fair, it looks fairly more natural in jungle oligarchy where he was like "in my notes i have it that datisi's slot is totally scum" (it was not btw) and this game it looks more like "did i mention i have notes so very townie only townies have notes right?"

Just thinking on this, I actually think that this is actually kinda +town for Datisi. It is in line with something that I think that a town datisi would think about, but does not look like how scum!datisi would try to capitalize on it since he did not really try to push him for it, or bring up the meta that he had on the topic himself.

[Lukewarm]

i mean he's also done it as scum too (this whole datisi vs vp notes thing is, like, an ongoing trend: viewtopic.php?p=13281139#p13281139) so i think it's more of a thing that datisi will think about rather than a thing that town datisi will think about

i didn't really love the way he brought it up here fwiw

Seeing him do it as scum definitely deflates my original point, although imo the way that he brought it up in that game does fit closer into the "capitalize" on it then the way he did it here.

So, I easily still see town datisi making it, but I guess I can see scum datisi doing it as well.

[Lukewarm]

I wasn't joking when I said it could be a scumslip though. There are pretty obvious town reasons this game to use the mod provided PT.

I feel like this is pretty based on whether you are a person who generally takes notes or not.

My PT is literally 4 empty vote posts in a row, and thats it lol

You being a person who likes to make notes, obviously getting a pt would make a lot of sense for you to utilize it.

[Lukewarm]

I think I just convinced myself that datisi is scum.

He is someone who regularly makes notes pts. I have actually read through a couple of his notes PTs before.

[Lukewarm]

Hold the presses.

Just spot checked the notes pt that I was thinking about in particular, and he was scum that game. Using a personal notes pt. Like a mad man.

Not actually sure how much he uses it as town. Probably something I should look into at some point. But that is not a problem for today.


Also, I am running out of posts. Let's kill Lava soon

[Lukewarm]

Me?

No. That was about datisi.

My comment about you was that it makes a lot of sense that you would utilize the pts for this game this way, since you usually make notes, and you have access to a pt.

Which then led to the thought: does this mean that datisi is NOT making notes in the pt? Which immediately caused the inverse thought I had in reference to you. It would not make sense that he wouldn't be utilizing it - unless his thoughts were instead going to a scum pt.

I know I have read through 2 notes pts of his, but the only one I know how to easily find was the one that Cakez nominated him for a scummy for. When I opened it, it was immediately clear that he was scum that game - which made me second guess the validity of the thought.

No idea what his alignment was in the other one, and I don't really feel like trying to figure out how to hunt down which games he has notes pts in right now, with less then 20 hours in the day and him never being the elim at this point anyways, no matter what conclusions I come to

[Lukewarm]

Meh. Don't feel the need to debate it at the current time. Not about to attempt a lasy min change anyways. Was basically ready to drop it anyways, and just see if I still felt that way tomorrow.

The last post was mainly clearing up baltars confusion - or anyone else, because I did kinda ping pong my thoughts around there that might have been in a hard to follow way.

[Lukewarm]

Hey Marci, would you mind voting Lava for me.

Since... uh

The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-03 13:48:00)

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Fey	0	10
fireisredsir	0	10
Lady Lambdadelta	0	10
Malakittens	0	10
Lukewarm	0	10
Dunnstral	0	10
Rhyme and Reason	0	10
Meuh	0	10
Val89	0	10
marcistar	0	10
Dwlee99	0	10
Gammagooey	0	10
Kovu	0	10
VP Baltar	0	10
Datisi	0	10
LavarManos	0	10
Enchant	0	10
SirCakez	0	10
gorilla	0	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

[Lukewarm]

I like 1115

[Lukewarm]

Yeah. I was not really convinced before, but I have not been a fan of his more recent stuff.

The notion of "forcing someone to participate" when we're a day from deadline is strange.

Not really? Scum are most vulnerable at the end of day.

The info we get from it, the people behind the push and the nature of it being a flashwagon all point to it being a better wagon than Dwlee.

I don't think so. How are any of the factors you mentioned different between my wagon and the dwlee wagon?

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

Uh, what dip after pressure?
Normally, I would townread a lurker like Dwlee for posting any content near the end of day, but this post just isn't right lol

I actually hated his series of posts.

Dwlee is building up as a counter wagon to Lava. Lave checks in and makes two posts supporting the wagon there without calling dwlee scummy. Like, they were both pro-dwlee wagon ideas but presented in a way that was completely divorced from thinking about dwlee's alignment.

Then slight shade onto dwlee.

It felt like it started with the idea that dwlee wagon is good because it can save me, and skipped past stopping to think about if dwlee was scum or not. Then looking for something to have issue with.


Not sure how to feel about the then turn around to calling him town tho

Actually, I still hate it. He made a small comment on not calling him scum, but totally left the door open to join the wagon later.

I'll keep my vote on Datisi

for now.

I don't really want to vote Dwlee

yet

I'd prefer for Lavar to just vote Dwlee and go "this is better than me getting limmed" than keeping the door open but not committing to it. The way they chose to.

Maybe playstyle is a part of it... but it seems like an attempt to make a later vote on Dwlee look "read motivated" more than "not getting killed" motivated.
That doesn't seem like something a townie getting wagoned would be worried about?

Like if Lavar is town here, why wouldn't they be like "hey, I'm a town member, I'll take this chance to stop my death from happening" instead of what looks like a weird "smoother" transition to a Dwlee vote.

[Lukewarm]

Marci...

Playing 20 questions is gonna run me out of posts. I am getting kinda close lol

He is at e-2

[Lukewarm]

My guess is Enchant lol

I doubt I'll be back on before the end of the day. Night folks.

[Lukewarm]

Is enchant on here? If no, that's why I was holding off the e-1, but lavar has had time to claim, so whatever

Yeah. I also knew that I wasn't gonna be around to rally votes before deadline, and felt more comfortable going to sleep to night knowing it was at E-1

[Lukewarm]

Phone posting, but my two main thoughts after the flip were:

I kinda like the way my 1097’s been picked up, the vibes are nice

I don't think that scum!Meuh makes this post knowing Lava is town. Like feels genuinely happy that their logic on why Lava was scum keeps getting repeated.

And then, scum!kovu likely does not go so hard in trying to say that I am partnered with Lava knowing he is getting ready to flip town. (Which is good, because I convinced myself that kovu was scum for the way they positioned around the Lava wagon when I still thought Lava was flipping scum)

[Lukewarm]

What an ass day 1

I bet scum were all over the Lavar wagon the reasoning for it was so bad

I find it hard to believe that Cakez town read Lava as hard as he claimed day 1. I also didn't like the way that he engaged with the case on Lava itself.

It feels more like he is just trying hard to look like The Person Who Was Right.

VOTE: Cakez

[Lukewarm]

I also think LLD dying here means that she was the nightkill who shot Datisi, rather than the other way around.

The wording of the flips confirms this I think. Something about her wrath coming back

[Lukewarm]

luke keeps posting things that i agree with and it makes me think he's town but then i just have a lingering feeling that he's posting them exactly because i agree with them

i don't mean to be self-centered but its happened like a lot

i also don't really think this is a super rational feeling but it has me concerned

Gonna be real with you fire, you seem nice and everything, but you would not be that high on my list of people to target with something like that.

I would be much more focused on the people I have played with more like Bell or Marci (or day 1, LLD or Datisi) or a louder voice like kovu.

[Lukewarm]

Or dunn. Forgot he was in this game

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lavar

Oh yeah?

This is fascinating as a sudden response from you.

You better prove that role of yours tonight or you're dying tomorrow lol

The only interesting thing about that vote is that you actually responded to it lol.

I think it's interesting you directly avoided a growing Dwlee wagon for Lavar

I don't know that scum!Bell ever signs off on an LLD kill after this exchange and then a town Lava flip

[Lukewarm]

what are your thoughts on mala?

Bottom half of my reads. She has been a really small prescence in a way that I find suspicious, but don't have strong thoughts there. Don't dislike a wagon on her

[Lukewarm]

Player	Votes
LavarManos (11)	gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99 (953), Datisi (962), Bell (1014), Dunnstral (1090), VP Baltar (1123), Enchant (1134)
Dwlee99 (5)	Kovu (1009), Fey (1011), Lady Lambdadelta (1013), Gammagooey (1022), SirCakez (1034)
Datisi (2)	LavarManos (950), marcistar (1116)
Not Voting (2)	Malakittens (130), Rhyme and Reason (964)

I'm about here right now, readwise; I feel like a lot of these null ones will go one way or another throughout the day.

Few thoughts:

I don't think Dwlee's posts that you just quoted feel like town, Meuh. It's just justification for the Lavar votes and a bit of reconciliatory posting in 1054, but those don't do anything for me.

I also think LLD dying here means that she was the nightkill who shot Datisi, rather than the other way around. I think that points to what content she did give having been either 1) pointing correctly to Dwlee/Bell or 2) a frame, which... eh? I'm less inclined to think mafia wanted to frame than just kill someone who could exert a great deal of pressure on them when she's town.

Also I do think the Dwlee wagon is probably all pure, at max one scum on it. I'm working off the assumption that there are 4 scum in this game so maybe one on the Dwlee or not voting, the rest on the Lavar wagon to push it through because it really wasn't going anywhere. Probably in Gamma/Cakez if there is one but eh. I don't really feel like Kovu as scum just decides to start an EOD competing wagon to a town one. Just doesn't... feel like her from experience, but this is without a lot of back referencing.

Feels like I am doing some preflipping mentally so I'll sort that out through the day (Meuh scum attacking VP -> point to VP town but this is flimsy).

That's about it right now.

p-edit: I highly disagree with the idea that Lady's posting points to the people she voted being town. That seems backwards to me.

Curious why Luke is null range to you. You have a hard time reading him?

I think ydra has had a hard time town reading me in every game we have ever played in together lol

[Lukewarm]

LavarManos (11) gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99 (953), Datisi (962), Bell (1014), Dunnstral (1090), VP Baltar (1123), Enchant (1134)

Ok, now that Bell is out there, fmpov this wagon is a bit easier to assess.

We got Bell and Datisi confirm town. I'm town. I think Luke, Fire and possibly Dunn are town (though not certain on Dunn and trusting my gut for now.

That leaves:

Gorilla
Val
Meuh
Dwlee
Enchant

My prediction is that more than one person has enchant as an invictus target, though we can talk about merits of limming there if needed.

I'm personally most inclined to lim dwlee or Meuh from that list. Gorilla isn't exactly a town read. His play feels distanced from the game in a way, and I kind of still standby my "probably one scum in gorilla/gamma", but that's not a good reason to want Gorilla today. It is enough to warrant me rereading gorillas day 1 though.

VOTE: meuh

/streamofconsciouswriting

If you got it down to meuh or dwlee, what pushed your vote onto meuh over dwlee here?

[Lukewarm]

also I'm very certain in my TRs.

meuh/marci blend together so I'm not really reading either, they're both in my low peo just cause yeah, I'll deal with reading those 2 later,

VERY BOTTOM poe is : fire. mala, dunn, RR

People I can't TR are: Bell, fire, mala, Dunn, RR, Dwlee, Gamma


and if all poe are gon, and there's 1 scum left at the end, I would reevaluate gorilla

people I didn't mention, I TR, with varying levels of certainty, but I feel very good about these reads. and I have to get the fire thing off my chest. I'm VERY certain fire is not town. that hood... I know I just talk a lot in general, but fire is mafia

Am I to conclude that you town read me now? What changed?

[Lukewarm]

Not sure what to make of the fire/kovu pt

[Lukewarm]

also I'm very certain in my TRs.

meuh/marci blend together so I'm not really reading either, they're both in my low peo just cause yeah, I'll deal with reading those 2 later,

VERY BOTTOM poe is : fire. mala, dunn, RR

People I can't TR are: Bell, fire, mala, Dunn, RR, Dwlee, Gamma


and if all poe are gon, and there's 1 scum left at the end, I would reevaluate gorilla

people I didn't mention, I TR, with varying levels of certainty, but I feel very good about these reads. and I have to get the fire thing off my chest. I'm VERY certain fire is not town. that hood... I know I just talk a lot in general, but fire is mafia

Am I to conclude that you town read me now? What changed?

@kovu

[Lukewarm]

we can boogie with this while we're figuring shit out

VOTE: gorilla

Who here is familiar with lld? Because given how little she'd done so far, I think that kill is much more likely to come from someone who knows her reputation. Here, the main names that occur to me are gorilla/dunn/Bell/Baltar/Cakez. Bell is clear, seemingly, so that leaves me with a likely scum in (gorilla/dunn/Cakez).

I also don't like Fey's entrance today. Not sure it's necessarily a scum entrance, but I think her conclusions about Invictus and where scum kill is almost 180 on what it should be. Namely: I think that the harder someone who eats the NK is SRing someone, the more likely that person is to be town due to the high chance of them using their Invictus on scum if they're right, and how devastating that could be for the scum team within a couple of nights.

Related to that thought, I think that it's decently clearing for dwlee that lld was the kill, and I wouldn't support another wagon there again today. I think, related to this, that there may well have been scum hopping to his wagon at EoD to try and maintain one of them (competing wagons theory) for a kill later on. I'm not sure exactly who it is yet, though.

~Rhyme

~Rhyme

I feel like a lot of this playerlist would know lld at least by reputation.

I've played several games with her, I know Marci has. Then your list, and you. And kovu made posts that seemed familiar. I feel like ydra would, but that one is a guess.

[Lukewarm]

@Meuh, your points on page 52 felt like solid enough reasons for you to think that marci is scum, and I can even see where you got to gorilla being a possible partner - but why in this scenario would you go for gorilla first over marci?

[Lukewarm]

Feels more like his scum meta again

Prove it

Show us how that's my scum meta

I easily could and you know that

[Lukewarm]

Did not mean to hit submit lol.

Cakez, a while back I did a bunch of meta to calculate Dunns dat 1 activity compared to his alignment, and found fairly consistently that he was more active as scum and more likely to just lurk our day 1 as town

It is not 100%, but across a multitude of games as both alignments, it was a pretty clear trend.

I do not think that the meta point you are making about Dunn is valid in any way.

I have found that Dunn activity level is pretty clearly tied to how invested he is in a game. That is independent from gis alignment but being scum inherently make him more invested, although he can get invested day 1 in games as town as well if for example he is excited by the set up or the player list.

[Lukewarm]

ok hold up, can someone explain more on why LLD kill clears Dwlee? I'm genuinely not understanding this, like why is Dwlee clear now?

The idea is that scum!dwlee would be too scared to kill LLD because he would suspect her to be invictus targeting him.

Not sure how good of a thought that is, but that is the idea being presented

[Lukewarm]

Kovu, is there a reason you avoided my multiple attempts to ask you about your read on me?

[Lukewarm]

@Meuh, your points on page 52 felt like solid enough reasons for you to think that marci is scum, and I can even see where you got to gorilla being a possible partner - but why in this scenario would you go for gorilla first over marci?

3 reasons:

1. I think we get more info out of pressuring Gorilla, who has mostly been left alone this game, than Marci, who’s been pushed a bunch already. It felt like it’d contribute more and advance the game more to vote for Gorilla. (which I stand by, Gorilla’s last few posts are juicier info than whatever Marci’s response would’ve been)
2. I’m interested in giving more merit to the ideas low activity players are putting out, to hopefully make them engage with the game more and/or get info on that player from the way the push goes from there. Similar to why I decided to vote with Lavar in 296.
3. Until we’re at a stage at the day where we’re headed towards is to lim someone, I like having some high impact votes, and that vote on Gorilla would be high impact. For the way it goes against a lot of people’s views on the game, and also since Enchant already had a vote there, making it more meaningful.

Setting up logic that makes marci scum. Then saying, if marci is scum then gorilla makes a decent partner. Then voting gorilla over marci feels like bad strategy.

But if you did it for content then voting to kill then its... okay... I

guess

[Lukewarm]

I change my mind, I want Dwlee gone again, that wagon d1 was good, dwlee hasn't gotten townier since
VOTE: Dwlee

Unless they wanna start actually being towny

jk this can wait, I'm joining the Meuh wagon
VOTE: Meuh

I definitely don't tr Meuh, and I wanna say meuh and marci shar a pt, like that's how those 2 seem, both blend together here yes, I hated the "im not sheeping I had this thought!!!" thing so much, like, why is it a big deal you weren't sheeping? if that was truly your read, you'd have been voting.

Re: marci and meuh, it is my understanding that they are friends irl, having played irl mafia together before both joining mafiascum. So you should expect a level of familiarity between them.

I don't know if that is any part of you feeling like they share a pt, but I don't really see what makes you feel that way anyways, so :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

@Bell

You being presumably a friendly neighbor (or something similar) but hitting up Baltar instead of me makes me sad.

I'm struggling to figure out your reads this game.

If you had a day vig shot, where would it be?

[Lukewarm]

Where is Bell's "role confirmation"?

It came through Baltar

Can confirm Bell's confirmed town (even if I think we could have kept the guessing game going longer, but anyhow)

@Baltar, can you explicitly say how you are sure that he is confirmed town? My guess was Friendly Neighbor, but don't see the benefit of being non-explicit of what it is here.

Did not mean to hit submit lol.

Cakez, a while back I did a bunch of meta to calculate Dunns dat 1 activity compared to his alignment, and found fairly consistently that he was more active as scum and more likely to just lurk our day 1 as town

It is not 100%, but across a multitude of games as both alignments, it was a pretty clear trend.

I do not think that the meta point you are making about Dunn is valid in any way.

I have found that Dunn activity level is pretty clearly tied to how invested he is in a game. That is independent from gis alignment but being scum inherently make him more invested, although he can get invested day 1 in games as town as well if for example he is excited by the set up or the player list.

I'm not arguing meta based on activity anymore

Well... it really seemed like it in the post I was responding to

Dunn really fell off towards EoD1. Feels more like his scum meta again now

If you were not talking about activity level, what were you referring to here.

[Lukewarm]

@Marci, can you make a post on your read on Meuh

[Lukewarm]

Dang, y'all got busy since last night. Catching up here.

I was being hyperbolic, kind of was my intent at the start of the day to get people shaken up immediately and it seems to have worked considering the spooky threat VPB made

I don't think you're shaking things up so much as saying pointless things. The "threat" i made to you was intended as a breadcrumb that I had information and to make you squirm. Bell unfortunately spilled the beans too fast.

What about you being able to confirm that Bell is town would have meuh "get rocked" for suspecting you?

[Lukewarm]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

Val, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts now that Datisi is dead.

Same for you marci, since you both kind of tunneled there to the exclusion of a lot else yesterday.

Oh ok, you’re scum

Baltar immediately taking advantage of the death to shade other people

meuh, can u explain more on this? why did u call him scum but not vote him?

i think ur just tunneling on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can.

no, i dont think scum would be confident enough to push a shitty meta read

i also think ur just spilling ur thoughts as they come to u and u arent scared of backlash.

1030 i dont see u as scum openly backing a miselim like that

i just think ur an idiot

I find Marci's progression on Meuh suspicious.

She started scum reading Meuh early, I see no signs of that changing throughout day 1. Then she opened up day 2 dropping shade on Meuh. Then in 1375 there is not a hint of concern there that meuh could be scum pushing her. Pure confidence that Meuh is town.

She also latched onto the idea that 1030 would come from town meuh, but that came before 1240 and therefore seems unlikely to be the thing that changed her read there?


@Kovu, you need to take a min to figure out who marci and meuh are independently of one another. I don't think that they are ever partners here.

[Lukewarm]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

Val, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts now that Datisi is dead.

Same for you marci, since you both kind of tunneled there to the exclusion of a lot else yesterday.

Oh ok, you’re scum

Baltar immediately taking advantage of the death to shade other people

meuh, can u explain more on this? why did u call him scum but not vote him?

i think ur just tunneling on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can.

no, i dont think scum would be confident enough to push a shitty meta read

i also think ur just spilling ur thoughts as they come to u and u arent scared of backlash.

1030 i dont see u as scum openly backing a miselim like that

i just think ur an idiot

I find Marci's progression on Meuh suspicious.

She started scum reading Meuh early, I see no signs of that changing throughout day 1. Then she opened up day 2 dropping shade on Meuh. Then in 1375 there is not a hint of concern there that meuh could be scum pushing her. Pure confidence that Meuh is town.

She also latched onto the idea that 1030 would come from town meuh, but that came before 1240 and therefore seems unlikely to be the thing that changed her read there?

pretends to be shocked

why cant there be progression behind closed doors smh?

Coming to the confident conclusion "i think ur just tunneling on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can" over "you are scum trying to push a miselim on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can" lends to extreme certainty on ones alignment before that push happened.

And that can totally be from you knowing Meuh's alignment this game. I did not jump to the only answer being that you were scum, that is why I asked about your read there. But your reasons for being so sure that meuh is town are kinda shitty.

One reason was the case against you that is the topic here
Another reason was a vague playstyle comment
And the final reason was something that happened before the last time you shaded her

[Lukewarm]

But your reasons for being so sure that meuh is town are kinda shitty.

One reason was the case against you that is the topic here
Another reason was a vague playstyle comment
And the final reason was something that happened before the last time you shaded her

(and also, because that last reason was a copy/paste of something that I said )

[Lukewarm]

How about this. At what point in this game did you read on Meuh change from scum to town?

-----

Also, guys. I have a dilemma.

Been debating on talking about it or not. But I don't know the best way for me to utilize my pr. (Am novice, so didn't fire last night)

I can choose someone, and will find out if we are Invictus targeting the same person. And something happens if we are. (I think I am the one role that exceeds the normal guidelines clause of the op because of this?)

So, I feel like maybe I should just out who I am going to be targeting, and then have us decide who we will be targeting over night? Will guarantee that we are on the same person unless they decide that stopping me from using my (unrevealed) ability is worth getting caught lying about their invictus target.

Have been hesitant to reveal that i am a PR for obvious reasons, but also worried that if I don't say something I might just guess wrong and be useless anyways.

[Lukewarm]

Have been hesitant to reveal that i am a PR for obvious reasons, but also worried that if I don't say something I might just guess wrong and be useless anyways.

I think coordinating seems like the best play then? The odds of guessing the same target randomly seems low.

It feels less like I would have to just hope that we were on the same person, and more that I would have to plant my invictus vote on who I thought that they had their vote on. Basically, guess their target.

Like, if I could have fired night 1 I could have guess that marci was on Datisi, put mine there, and then it likely would have worked - or I could have questioned Marci on why it wasn't there given her reads.

So, I could see it being used without coordinating, but :shurg:

[Lukewarm]

Or, we could all collectively agree on an invictus target for the night, and then I could spot check for someone lying?

[Lukewarm]

Without revealing who I would be on?

idk man

[Lukewarm]

Or, we could all collectively agree on an invictus target for the night, and then I could spot check for someone lying?

That's interesting, but gives scum a free night if we choose wrong. Would be epic if town all picked a correct scum though

If we limit the outed invictus targets to just me and the person I am checking, and we choose wrong, then the scum team can just kill me in that scenario. Which as an outed Pr in a game with 3 VT flips means I am a desirable target anyways.

So not sure if this makes a huge difference.

[Lukewarm]

u dont know what happens if u and ur target are twinning right?

i yhink the checking for a lie plan would be most useful in that case ( :

I do know, but was trying to avoid outlining everything

to trick the scum team into thinking I should be a priority kill even though the effect is kinda weak

To trick the scum team into killing into me not knowing that it makes me bulletproof

To trick the scum team into thinking that they should kill me, even though they really need to kill my target

to trick the scum team into not killing me, because they don't know what will happen

ect. ect.

[Lukewarm]

oh u do know?
so why r u asking for help for the plan then?

make it a super effective plan!! all u need is to get the target shit figured out

Do you want to be my invictus twin?

Who should we be on?

[Lukewarm]

True. We don't need to decide right now.

I was mainly checking to see if you would be nervous signing up to be a part of my mystery pr shenanigans.

I liked your response tbh

[Lukewarm]

I think that Mala softest hard enough, that she should just out whatever info she has.

I generally doubt that if she has a pr, it can actually clear both herself and r&r if Bell is also self clearing. Which makes me worried it's just a bluff from her

I kinda want to kill her today, so outing it to determine if that changes my mind is probably good too

Pedit: why is mala in your town list?

[Lukewarm]

True. We don't need to decide right now.

I was mainly checking to see if you would be nervous signing up to be a part of my mystery pr shenanigans.

I liked your response tbh

This response, though...just feels like he's letting her off too easy? Bleh, bleh, bleh. After suspecting her on the previous page to reverse so easily doesn't sit right with me.

Her response was not scummy, and there was no hint at trying to angle for someone else to be the person I twin with.

I didn't say that it was clearing, or that suddenly I am sure she was town.

Just that I liked her response, and dropping the line about trying to work out a twining target with her seemed fine now that I got her response.

----

What exactly does not sit right with you?

[Lukewarm]

Mala softest hard enough, that she should just out whatever info she has.

No

Well, do tou think mala saying "me and r&r are town" is enough for both mala and r&r to be taken off the table? Because I don't.

[Lukewarm]

True. We don't need to decide right now.

I was mainly checking to see if you would be nervous signing up to be a part of my mystery pr shenanigans.

I liked your response tbh

This response, though...just feels like he's letting her off too easy? Bleh, bleh, bleh. After suspecting her on the previous page to reverse so easily doesn't sit right with me.

Her response was not scummy, and there was no hint at trying to angle for someone else to be the person I twin with.

I didn't say that it was clearing, or that suddenly I am sure she was town.

Just that I liked her response, and dropping the line about trying to work out a twining target with her seemed fine now that I got her response.

----

What exactly does not sit right with you?

It just feels like it could be pocketing. Like you gave her a little softball questioning and when she answered you said you liked the response so that she's on your good side, you had a little moment talking about your PR and everything

Okay. But, I am town. I mentioned the pr. I am suspicious of marci. Marci is online. Scum!marci sometimes panics when under direct pressure.

I think "I wonder if she will freeze up/try to wiggle out of it if I say i should twin with her and ask a follow up"

I do that

She fairly quickly agrees and makes a suggestion on our target.

Where would you expect me, in that moment to go?

Not sure what other option there really even was other then reveal I was just reaction testing her there.

[Lukewarm]

...you do realize the role that exceeded the guidelines in the original game was a scum one, right?

I did not.

The fact there is exactly one means if it is a scum role in this game, that does remove the possibility they get CCd on that basis.

I also did not. Didn't look back at the original game lol

[Lukewarm]

I'm struggling to believe that gorilla looks at my play around marci all game, and is ever worried that I am actively trying to pocket her.

VOTE: gorilla


I think it more likely that it is scum not wanting me to write marci off as town and also not wanting me written off as town (added to meuhs point about his reaction to bell)

[Lukewarm]

Mala softest hard enough, that she should just out whatever info she has.

No

Well, do tou think mala saying "me and r&r are town" is enough for both mala and r&r to be taken off the table? Because I don't.

I don't. But I also don't think we need to lim either of them today.

Baltar, this sure does look like you are saying that you don't think they should be taken off the table, but you also are perfectly happy taking them off the table.

----

Anyways, off the top of my head I could kill:

Cakez, mala, gorilla, dwlee or dunn here I think.

Thinking about who I should twin with - it doesn't actually make sense for it to be any of those people.

I want to twin with Kovu. Kovu can weigh in on who we target tho, and it can be anyone on this list or one of their scum reads so long as it's not an explicit town read of mine

[Lukewarm]

I thought about that lukewarm post and this is what bothers me about it - the mindset is very off. I have been a wagon for most of the day. In what world am I possibly trying to keep marci and him from being townread? How is that a realistic or plausible goal for me as scum at all right now? I am highly likly to die before he is. How can he possibly think I have...any chance of discrediting him here as scum? It doesn't add up whatsoever.

The point was more: why would that post upset Gorilla. I don't think that the reason Gorilla presented makes sense for town!Gorilla to actually be worried about. But I see why (if you read it as me declaring marci town after I had been pushing her) scum!gorilla would be unhappy with it.

Less goal with the post you made, and more why the emotion behind why you felt the need to comment on the post existed.

But :shrug: I don't even know how strongly that it makes you scum, but you are in the bottom half of my reads, and I hated the take, and I am generally looking for a new place to plant my vote since the other person I voted did not turn into a proper wagon, and I don't feel terrible strongly about any one other then Cakez.

[Lukewarm]

Baltar, this sure does look like you are saying that you don't think they should be taken off the table, but you also are perfectly happy taking them off the table.

Not really. We are talking about two different things. Taking then off the table, to me, is a gamelong decision. What I am saying is they are not my preferred lim choice today, so there is little value in pushing for more info right now.

Fwiw, my preferred lims are very close to your own, with my strongest preference for either Cakez or dwlee.

I meant "take them off the table for today" -- if you meant for the game, then that would make sense on the disconnect.

[Lukewarm]

I thought about that lukewarm post and this is what bothers me about it - the mindset is very off. I have been a wagon for most of the day. In what world am I possibly trying to keep marci and him from being townread? How is that a realistic or plausible goal for me as scum at all right now? I am highly likly to die before he is. How can he possibly think I have...any chance of discrediting him here as scum? It doesn't add up whatsoever.

The point was more: why would that post upset Gorilla. I don't think that the reason Gorilla presented makes sense for town!Gorilla to actually be worried about. But I see why (if you read it as me declaring marci town after I had been pushing her) scum!gorilla would be unhappy with it.

Less goal with the post you made, and more why the emotion behind why you felt the need to comment on the post existed.

But :shrug: I don't even know how strongly that it makes you scum, but you are in the bottom half of my reads, and I hated the take, and I am generally looking for a new place to plant my vote since the other person I voted did not turn into a proper wagon, and I don't feel terrible strongly about any one other then Cakez.

I am not

upset

, friend. My jimmies remain un-rustled. Don't try to exaggerate what I'm saying. I said I didn't like a post, found it suspicious, and pointed out exactly what I didn't like. Then you got very defensive over the suggestion that it was pockety.

Yeah. You read the word upset with a lot more connotation then I meant as I typed it. Maybe even upset was the wrong word.

I read 1488, and questioned: why, during gorilla's reading was 1442 a post that elicited this response from him.

So, maybe this should have been worded as :

The point was more: why, during gorilla's reading was 1442 a post that elicited this response from him.. I don't think that the reason Gorilla presented makes sense for town!Gorilla to actually be worried about. But I see why (if you read it as me declaring marci town after I had been pushing her) scum!gorilla would be unhappy with it.

[Lukewarm]

- really really don't like 1414 from luke. i think luke has been mostly saying reasonable things so ive been trying to ignore the bad vibes ive been getting (generally feels somewhat manipulative in the way he's approaching the game rather than coming from a town mindset) but i think this post is just bad. it seems intentionally very uncharitable, like, saying that marci has "pure confidence in meuh being town"???

the post he's referencing doesn't even read to me like a strong townread. scum can tunnel too and tunneling does not imply town, and luke absolutely should know this, so i find it very weird that he is twisting that

. he also takes 264 as evidence for marci scumreading meuh early and seeing "no signs of that changing" despite... her never mentioning a suspicion. and in 708, where she lists her suspicions, meuh isn't mentioned. like that is 100% just luke setting a narrative that isn't there.

I don't think that scum can be tunneled, because being tunneled means that you are reading someone so strongly that you are not seeing evidence to the contrary.

Scum can't do that. Because scum don't have reads. And, if they are ignoring evidence to the contrary, it is on purpose.

"i think ur just tunneling on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can." This statement inherently implies that the person is thinking of the other person as explicitly town. Which, Marci even came back and said that she was thinking of meuh as town as she typed that message.

So, it explicitly is either scum!marci forgetting that they should be suspicious of Meuh's push there, and changing to a town read because of it / or / town!marci writing it just after convincing herself that meuh is town.

I am not attempting to look at people's posts limited to the exact words used in the posts. (Like, the fact that she did not say meuh was town explicitly in that comment) But also looking at the mindset of the person when they were typing it.

And like, that was the correct reading of the subtext of that statement, and I am not sure why you would think otherwise here.

[Lukewarm]

I went to reread cakez's posts to try to argue why he's town and wound up liking them less than I did before. I thought there was a little bit of depth to what he was saying and the will to try was there even if the conclusions weren't agreeable but there's a lot of blunt hammering away at targets like Datisi and Bell. 639 in particular feels very uncharitable.

I think Baltar comes off as definitively better than him, actually?


I wouldn't say he's a top scumread but don't really feel comfortable locking him as town anymore.

Would go back to cakez if there are enough people willing to go there, but don't personally really have the energy to fight kovu on it atm.

Them seeming to completely townlock!cakez kinda deflated my desire to try and go for it.

Since then I have been kinda lost on what to do this day phase

This was actually was another factor in outing my pr, since I hoped that it would spark Fun and Interesting discussions [It didn't].

Kinda want an elim to just happen so that I can get to the night so that I can use my ability. I think that tomorrow will be much more enlightening, and easier to sort through.

[Lukewarm]

im not sure why that's the point you chose to respond to, unless you're just trying to draw me into a pedantic argument about the meaning of words instead of about alignment, but okay

1) scum can tunnel. scum cannot "be tunneled", but i think there's a key difference there. tunneling refers to the action, being tunneled refers to the mindset. the post in question used the former, you are treating it as the latter. if you want to say you disagree here, okay thats fine, it's not really the point

2) my point was about how your statements of her reads were exaggerated. you said that she had "pure confidence". even if you think that someone using the word "tunneling" implies that they are likely viewing the person as town, it isn't the kind of statement that implies a 100% confidence in someone being town. the fact that you treated it that way is what i found suspicious

3) that point was part of a larger overall trend of you misrepresenting her progression, which you chose to ignore. saying that she had pure confidence in meuh being town was an exaggeration, even if she said later that she had started to lean town at that point. you saying that she was scumreading meuh through d1 was an exaggeration (calling it an exaggeration is generous tbh, it's not really supported at all by the facts), when she seems to clearly have started to question meuh after meuh suspected her at start of d2. i found you drawing this out, exaggerating the highs of the read, the lows of the read, and the time period over which it played out, to be suspicious, because you were constructing a narrative that isn't there

1) I guess we just disagree.

2) I use strong language.

3) I read 1240, and made a mental note that Marci was shading Meuh. I then read her comment about tunneling in 1375, and it did not line up with that, and it looked like a perspective slip. I opened her iso, and hit control+f and searched for "Meuh" to see if there was anything that happened between 1240 and 1375. There wasnt. I then went up her iso to see the last substantive comment Marci made about Meuh prior to 1240 to see if I was wrong to read shade into 1240. The last one that I saw that felt substantive was super early, and it was a scum read.

My main focus was the 1240->1375, and looking at day 1 was an after thought. Sorry if that methodology does not stand up to your standards friend.

[Lukewarm]

Would go back to cakez if there are enough people willing to go there, but don't personally really have the energy to fight kovu on it atm.

Them seeming to completely townlock!cakez kinda deflated my desire to try and go for it.

Since then I have been kinda lost on what to do this day phase

This is bizarre to me. Multiple people have expressed suspicion of cakez, and you don't want to try to wagon him...because of Kovu? Her dissent is enough to make you give up on a scumread?

I cast my vote in 1195, and explained why I thought it was scummy. As of me moving my vote, cakez had 2 votes.

It is less "giving up on a scum read" and more thinking that it wasn't going to happen today with out major effort on my end (which, feels reasonable given the lack of votes on him).

And given her stances, I can tell that kovu would be on the other side fighting against it.

And I don't have the energy or motivation to take on that fight right now.

[Lukewarm]

2) I use strong language.

3) I read 1240, and made a mental note that Marci was shading Meuh. I then read her comment about tunneling in 1375, and it did not line up with that, and it looked like a perspective slip. I opened her iso, and hit control+f and searched for "Meuh" to see if there was anything that happened between 1240 and 1375. There wasnt. I then went up her iso to see the last substantive comment Marci made about Meuh prior to 1240 to see if I was wrong to read shade into 1240. The last one that I saw that felt substantive was super early, and it was a scum read.

My main focus was the 1240->1375, and looking at day 1 was an after thought. Sorry if that methodology does not stand up to your standards friend.

i don't really understand the combo of walking back your original point and essentially acknowledging that it was exaggerated while also being passive aggressive about me calling you out for it being a false narrative

does that come from town?

and by the way, 264 is still in no world a scumread

I am not walking back my original point. My original point was that she had not called meuh town, and in fact, she was shading her not long before. And her suddenly talking about meuh in town terms was suspicious.

That was the point. That was the the thing that I cared about.

My recent posts were to clarify the point, since you appear to have walked away with a different impression of what I was thinking.

I am simultaneously trying to help you understand my thoughts, and how I got to there -- while also being mildly frustrated at your representation of my thoughts.

And gotta say, doubly frustrated at the new line that 264 was not a scum read as a double down on saying that her tunnel comment did not imply a town read. Because both are simply true.

I think I'm gonna drop this conversation now.

[Lukewarm]

And like, this feels like a repeat of you suddenly deciding I was scum in our dance game.

Gonna day up front that it is my gut feeling towards your stances around me. I haven't actually looked back at it. So definitely not interest in starting up a conversation on how you do or don't think it is comparable.

[Lukewarm]

Anyways, off the top of my head I could kill:

Cakez, mala, gorilla, dwlee or dunn here I think.

Mind telling me why dunn makes that list?

Huh. I typed up a response to this, but it appears it didn't send.

Not been a fan of his content this day phase. Didn't like how much of his iso is focused on discussing his meta when he is not even a wagon

I am used to very insightful posts coming from him as town, and I haven't really seen that this game, and instead seeing him argue that baltar is town reading him for the wrong reasons

[Lukewarm]

And gotta say, doubly frustrated at the new line that 264 was not a scum read as a double down on saying that her tunnel comment did not imply a town read. Because both are simply true.

I think I'm gonna drop this conversation now.

it wasn't a new line, i said it in the original post, you just ignored it. saying someone needs more suspicions is not a scumread. she did not list meuh in her scumreads at any point in d1. there's no reason to believe that it was a scumread. i do find it suspect that as someone who has had marci as their primary focus all game, you would not have a grasp on her progressions and would just be ctrl+F-ing meuh to find things that support your point. i do, in fact, have higher standards for your methodology, and i think that you do as well

but okay, fine, i don't think you should be eliminated today anyway so we don't have to go further with this now. i just wanted to get my thoughts out there because i don't want to risk the chance of dying with them unsaid

Making a statement that More People should be scum reading someone means that you scum read that person. Like. 100% that is what it means. If you don't see that then we might as well be speaking different languages or playing different games

And the control f thing you just said isn't even what I said. I literally said that upon reading the tunneled comment, it immediately stood out because it didn't match my memory of her stance wrt to meuh. Because I remembered her shading her. And I seemed to remember her scum reading her day 1. Like the Whole Reason it stood out to me was because it didn't match.

The control f was to spot check if there was something in her iso that I had missed.

And guess what I saw when I did.

Her shading her like 100 posts before. And her calling her a scum read (I will die on this hill thank you) early. And zero posts that called her town.

Like what are you even talking about. I remembered right. I spot checked myself. Upon spot checking I saw that I remembered correctly and that there was not some post that I missed.

And you are now taking the stance it's suspicious that I didn't have a grasp on it.

I'm done

[Lukewarm]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

What changed? We you not just shooting down someone's scum read on her?

It might be a shock to some people, but i can actually change my mind sometimes!!!!.

Just gonna put this here.

This sure does feel like my reading of her post was the way she meant it

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Dwlee

Avengers assemble.

VOTE: dwlee

[Lukewarm]

Not to beetle juice gorilla calling me and dunn parters or anything, but I actually think that I would prefer a Dunn elim to a dwlee elim.

Gorilla I did notice that you were pushing dunn. However, I am not convinced on either of your alignments enough to use that to clear either of you. Obviously, if either of you do flip scum then I will re-evaluate the other, but definitely not taking either of you off for the other one.

Also, you are not my biggest scum read rn. Cakez is. You were just simultaneously on the bottom half of my reads and an existing wagon that could reasonably go through with out me needing to commit major energy into making it happen. At a time where I actively didn't want a Meuh elim, and she was the other leading wagon

Spoiler:

Player	Votes
gorilla (4)	Enchant (1291), Meuh (1292), Dunnstral (1296), Rhyme and Reason (1301)
Meuh (4)	Fey (1168), VP Baltar (1221), fireisredsir (1348), Kovu (1360)
SirCakez (2)	Lukewarm (1195), Val89 (1196)
Val89 (1)	SirCakez (1165)
Dunnstral (1)	gorilla (1175)
Enchant (1)	Gammagooey (1213)
Gammagooey (1)	marcistar (1239)
Not Voting (3)	Bell, Malakittens, Dwlee99

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to eliminate.

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

Like, here is the most recent VC.

I have been on Cakez with little movement happening that direction. So feeling like it won't happen today.
I actively don't want Meuh to be eliminated, so no interest in going there.

[Lukewarm]

Gorilla, cakez is actually, in this moment, scaring me about the dunn elim then you ever would have :/

[Lukewarm]

I also feel very comfortable with my townread on Lukewarm. I'm treating Kovu as town for reasons previously discussed. I still think Marci is more likely town than not.

I don't pretend to be able to read enchant particularly well, but their votes and other content we have has all made at least sense to me, neither am I detecting any difference between enchant here and town!enchant in the games I have seen. I have some sympathy for the argument that enchant will be a difficult sort and we might need to consider dealing with it sooner or later, but I think they deserve more of a chance for something else to happen to make that alignment more clear, and I'm not interested in a vote there today.

I want people to actually start reading my posts, so I will give justification elsewhere, but I wouldn't vote Dunn today either. I could probably be convinced to join a wagon on anyone else not mentioned, but my strong preference is for SirCakez, as indicated by my vote.

like all my scumspects suddenly developed scumreads on me after I laid out my scumpool yesterday and I don't think it's a coincidence

I would very much like to kill Cakez today if anyone else is interested.

Like, here he is pushing the idea that scum would scum read him for scum reading scum. Ignores the fact that he town binned Dunn Day 1, but Dunn was pushed him.

Spoiler: Dunn shading Cakez, while cakez is still calling dunn town

My point above being that the above post feels selective in that you don't include the information that doesn't support your viewpoint, or seem to care what I am doing because I'm not a popular wagon right now, which feels inconsistent

I ignored it because I've gotten tons of towntells from you earlier on so I didn't see the relevance

It also ignores the people who are scum reading him that are not in his scum pool. (Me, I am talking about me. He has done nothing but call me town, but is then calling other people suspicious for doing something that I am also doing).

[Lukewarm]

Yeah and did Dunn spend any time day 1 pushing me? no he didn't. has he spent most of today sitting on me? yeah he has. what changed in the meantime? not rocket science

This is wrong.
He started scum reading you at the end of day 1. You were town reading him at the time. You scum reading him clearly had nothing to do with him scum reading you, since they happened in the other order. If anything, it looks like you OMGUS'ed him.

He is not sitting on you today, he has literally never voted you. He is voting gorilla.

I didn't say people scumreading me are scum so your last bit doesn't make any sense
I'm saying that I think scum want to get rid of me at this point, assuming my scumreads rn are correct

My point was that it felt like you were selectively applying things. Like, I saw your comment, but then no hint at you second guessing your read on me, and I immediately remembered this from Dunn day 1

My point above being that the above post feels selective in that you don't include the information that doesn't support your viewpoint, or seem to care what I am doing because I'm not a popular wagon right now, which feels inconsistent

It does feel like you are doing this imo.

[Lukewarm]

Like, there feels like a disconnect in thinking:

"I'm a townie!

All my scum reads want me dead!

Obviously that means that the scum team wants me dead!"

And it simultaneously feeling like you are completely ignoring me. Like, I voted you - Val sheeped my vote. You voted Val in response.

You then doubled down on the idea in your recent posts.

But it feels like you are not ever re-evaluating me, because you already made the decision to treat me as a town read this game, so there is no need to look at my actions.

[Lukewarm]

Or even, if you are really convinced that I am town, not realizing that that means that at least one townie has you as their absolute strongest scum read, and therefore a townie could legitimately think you are scummy here, and therefore people scum reading you would be kinda NAI

Like, either one of those would feel more natural then what I am seeing right now

[Lukewarm]

I specifically said that it seems weird that there is no hint at re-evaluating Me.

Especially given the context of how I have been approaching this game when compared to the people you are scum reading.

[Lukewarm]

...

It was not just since the PR claim....

Val and I voted you back to back. Here was your response to those.

What an ass day 1

I bet scum were all over the Lavar wagon the reasoning for it was so bad

I find it hard to believe that Cakez town read Lava as hard as he claimed day 1. I also didn't like the way that he engaged with the case on Lava itself.

It feels more like he is just trying hard to look like The Person Who Was Right.

VOTE: Cakez

Wow because I said Lavar was town all day 1 then he was town and I got frustrated that seems unusual? Forgive me for having a read correct

I mean, I'm kind of coming round to you being town now after looking at your ISO again Cakez (plus S_S thinks you're town) but I had some pretty bad desire to kill you yesterday and that was definitely part of it, so I don't think Luke is crazy for thinking along the same lines

~Rhyme

You can think I'm scum but I hate that Luke is using me being correct about my Lavar read as the reason because it's like saying that I wasn't actually good enough to have just read Lavar correctly

---

VOTE: SirCakez

Total scum move

I also feel very comfortable with my townread on Lukewarm. I'm treating Kovu as town for reasons previously discussed. I still think Marci is more likely town than not.

I don't pretend to be able to read enchant particularly well, but their votes and other content we have has all made at least sense to me, neither am I detecting any difference between enchant here and town!enchant in the games I have seen. I have some sympathy for the argument that enchant will be a difficult sort and we might need to consider dealing with it sooner or later, but I think they deserve more of a chance for something else to happen to make that alignment more clear, and I'm not interested in a vote there today.

I want people to actually start reading my posts, so I will give justification elsewhere, but I wouldn't vote Dunn today either. I could probably be convinced to join a wagon on anyone else not mentioned, but my strong preference is for SirCakez, as indicated by my vote.

like all my scumspects suddenly developed scumreads on me after I laid out my scumpool yesterday and I don't think it's a coincidence

You respond to me like I am town, you call him scum.

We are doing basically the same things.

[Lukewarm]

Laying in bed thinking about this game, and I've convinced myself of a gorilla town read

[Lukewarm]

I want to twin with Kovu.

Why would this ever happen? I mean sure if you wanna just guess who I'm on tonight, but I'm not announcing it in thread.. like you had a perfectly good offer from marci to twin with you, when you explained your role, you just said "someone" by you going "I want Kovu" excuse me? So am I gonna die if you correctly guess my target, probably can't self invictus so maybe I just go on you? like, someone said this was a scum role in the first, and if town!you had this role, I'd assume you'd haven been right with RR day 1 going "yeah lets invictus the 2nd wagon!!!" that doesn't out this at all. I don't see why town!you would claim it like you did, and then go "I want to twin with Kovu" WHAT EVEN??? well, have fun guessing my target then.

Kovu, are you even reading my posts? No clue why you jumped to the idea that you would die.

Also, I am novice, meaning I could not activate night 1, the thing about R&R does not even apply.

It does not make sense for me to twin with a scum read.

Anyways, off the top of my head I could kill:

Cakez, mala, gorilla, dwlee or dunn here I think.

Thinking about who I should twin with -

it doesn't actually make sense for it to be any of those people

.

Before I outed my PR, I considered trying to twin with Bell without revealing my PR

@Bell

You being presumably a friendly neighbor (or something similar) but hitting up Baltar instead of me makes me sad.

I'm struggling to figure out your reads this game.

If you had a day vig shot, where would it be?

But, turns out he does not have any strong scum reads.

So, I decided to go with you instead.

----

The bit was twinning with Marci was never going to happen. When I was entertaining the idea it was as a reaction test to marci, which I quickly revealed.

[Lukewarm]

The bit was twinning with Marci was never going to happen. When I was entertaining the idea it was as a reaction test to marci, which I quickly revealed.

*falls to the ground, crying*

why do you hate meeeee

Just trying to win the game bestie

[Lukewarm]

I cannot tell if Dunn is actually town, or if (stealing this one from fire from earlier) he wrote that flurry of posts specifically to make me think that he is town. Because, I really liked that flurry of posts.

[Lukewarm]

Kovu, if you still don't want to twin with me, can you at least say that you are not actually gonna plant your invictus on me in order to lock me out of doing it.

Because if you are town, and you go into the night phase stating that your invictus is on me, then it feels like you just get killed and I die to your invictus.

Like, every time

[Lukewarm]

There were a few things that I liked.

Starting with his reads list. His town reads are: Me, fire, val and kovu. With town leaning on Baltar, Meuh and Marci.

For the most part, that is my basic grasp on the game. Feels like we are reading the same game (or like I said, he could be designing himself to mirror my reads in particular)

I also, in particular liked the things that he called out for town reading me. They were not the easy out in reference to my claim. They were not even the big cases that I wrote day 1. Both would be easy things to throw in and call me a town read of me. They were 1606 and 1106. Those are not easy, stand out things to remember when trying to bs a town read on me. But, I can totally see why he would town read me for them, and it makes me feel like he is really reading my posts to come to that read.

Then I like the Val town read. I have also started town reading Val (actually not sure I have actually expressed that in thread before now) so seeing it there gives me good feelies.

And I also really liked the reach out to twin with me if I needed him to. And when I saw it, I could see where town Dunn would come to the decision to make that offer since it is true that he would not be a night kill risk.

It was just a bunch of things back to back that I liked.

[Lukewarm]

I also, in particular liked the things that he called out for town reading me. They were not the easy out in reference to my claim. They were not even the big cases that I wrote day 1. Both would be easy things to throw in and call me a town read of me. They were 1606 and 1106. Those are not easy, stand out things to remember when trying to bs a town read on me. But, I can totally see why he would town read me for them, and it makes me feel like he is really reading my posts to come to that read.

This is probably the biggest thing btw. Because, I don't really see scum choosing those things in particular to fake a read on me.


-----

@Marci, do you plan on giving us any more info or are you gonna make us play 20 questions with you

[Lukewarm]

@Marci, do you plan on giving us any more info or are you gonna make us play 20 questions with you

i was planning to later tonight after work :< do u have anything specific u want my opinions on rn (im on break now : DD) or?

...

That was in reference to these posts:

FUCK ME

I AM SO SORRY IM SUCH A BAD PERSON

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cakez

[Lukewarm]

@Marci, do you plan on giving us any more info or are you gonna make us play 20 questions with you

i was planning to later tonight after work :< do u have anything specific u want my opinions on rn (im on break now : DD) or?

Ah, I see. My bad

...

That was in reference to these posts:

FUCK ME

I AM SO SORRY IM SUCH A BAD PERSON

1783

[Lukewarm]

@enchant.

Why are you voting for dwlee?

[Lukewarm]

Solid reason 10/10

I could kill Mala here

[Lukewarm]

I could kill Mala here

I'm not interested in that today. I understand you have expressed the notion that you think the softing is a potential bluff at 1489; and I do think there is something in the idea that there are a few too many potential clears knocking around, but I don't think today is the day to be charging about forcing that, when the target of that bluff, from your point of view, had this to say:

I also saw the Mala softs fwiw, I think it's to town's advantage to not have her clarify unless we receive significant pressure (or she does). You don't have to assume we're clear, but you should consider that it's a possibility.

Ask me again tomorrow, I might feel differently, but I won't support a wagon on Mala (or RR) today.

Yeah. I know that it is not happening - and I am not voting. That was more of a statement of my read

There were a few things that I liked.

Starting with his reads list. His town reads are: Me, fire, val and kovu. With town leaning on Baltar, Meuh and Marci.

For the most part, that is my basic grasp on the game. Feels like we are reading the same game (or like I said, he could be designing himself to mirror my reads in particular)

I also, in particular liked the things that he called out for town reading me. They were not the easy out in reference to my claim. They were not even the big cases that I wrote day 1. Both would be easy things to throw in and call me a town read of me. They were 1606 and 1106. Those are not easy, stand out things to remember when trying to bs a town read on me. But, I can totally see why he would town read me for them, and it makes me feel like he is really reading my posts to come to that read.

Then I like the Val town read. I have also started town reading Val (actually not sure I have actually expressed that in thread before now) so seeing it there gives me good feelies.

And I also really liked the reach out to twin with me if I needed him to. And when I saw it, I could see where town Dunn would come to the decision to make that offer since it is true that he would not be a night kill risk.

It was just a bunch of things back to back that I liked.

Having agreeable town reads means almost essentially nothing. Scum know who is town and can fake believable townreads. It is not very hard. The idea that scum are somehow incapable of reading your posts to fake a read on you is baffling. It strikes me as terribly convenient in terms of how he's handling you.

Again, agreeing with you on a singular townread is an actively

terrible

reason to be townreading someone. Agreeing on that one read means almost nothing

Yeah. This is an incredibly disingenuous simplification of what I said.

The Primary thing (and I called it as such in my posts) that made me lean on it being town indicative, is that the REASONS presented as to town read me make more sense to me as to come from Town who has actively thought about my alignment, then from scum looking to just bs a town read on me.

Like, if scum just wants to throw out a town read on me, then there are plenty of easy things to say. How active I have been. The cases I put out on Day 1 were a lot of effort for scum to throw out on day 1. My PR claim, and the way that I outed it. But he did not call out any of the easy reasons to town read me. Instead he called out very specific posts that I were not all that memorable, but ones that I could see why he would genuinely think I was more likely town for them.

The reasons that the gave seemed to me to imply Genuine Thoughts on my alignement.

I don't remotely see how you, as town, cannot be paranoid he's buddying up to you here. None of this is a remotely compelling defense.

This is also incredibly disengenuos.
Because.
Like.
My gut reaction was that it was either Real Town Thoughts from Dunn, or targeted towards getting me in particular to town read him.

I cannot tell if Dunn is actually town, or if (stealing this one from fire from earlier) he wrote that flurry of posts specifically to make me think that he is town. Because, I really liked that flurry of posts.

[Lukewarm]

Luke, I'm confused why you're suddenly all "I want cakez now" "I want Mala" like, I feel like a lot of focus has gone into Dunn/Dwlee, and like especially mala now, we've all established we're leaving mala alone till d3, then if she continues doing nothing, she's main focus, literally aready established. End of day is close, you don't have thoughts on Dunn/Dwlee? or do you think they're both town?

Cakez has been my strongest scum read this entire day phase, and you only just recently revealed that there is apparently a reason to think otherwise outside of you thinking that scum!Cakez would not call day 1 ass (which I fundamentally disagreed with)

My comment on Mala was mainly that I think that that pop in was pretty scummy (on top of her already underwhelming presence this game). She has been out of thread for 2 full days, and that is the one any only thing she felt like commenting on. Found it scummy, and I called it out as scum. I am aware that she is not dying this phase, which is why it did not also come with a vote.

Based on play, those are my two strongest scum reads. And both are apparently off the table for the day based on other peoples mech claims.

Deciding who is your third strongest scum read is a pretty uncomfortable approach to a game, since at that point it is basically just letting someone you can see as scum die.

I had a preference for Dunn to die earlier as his ISO was missing a substantive quality that I expect from Town!Dunn, but then I liked a couple of his posts. If he goes over, I won't be upset or anything, but Having A Series of Posts That i Liked coming from Dunn is more then I can say about Dwlee, so I guess between the two I would go Dwlee at this point? (Also, Dunn is the only person currently set up for me to twin with, so there is that too).

[Lukewarm]

I cannot tell if Dunn is actually town, or if (stealing this one from fire from earlier) he wrote that flurry of posts specifically to make me think that he is town. Because, I really liked that flurry of posts.

What about that is good or difficult to fake?

Having agreeable town reads means almost essentially nothing. Scum know who is town and can fake believable townreads. It is not very hard. The idea that scum are somehow incapable of reading your posts to fake a read on you is baffling. It strikes me as terribly convenient in terms of how he's handling you.

Again, agreeing with you on a singular townread is an actively

terrible

reason to be townreading someone. Agreeing on that one read means almost nothing

I don't remotely see how you, as town, cannot be paranoid he's buddying up to you here. None of this is a remotely compelling defense.

The more I think about these posts, the more I hate them.

They seems to be approaching the topic as "come up with something that scum could never post, or having thoughts that someone could be town is scummy and fake" -- when that is literally never how this game or reads work.

Scum can post literally anything. This is a game more about looking at a post, and asking whether is seems more likely something comes from town or scum, and imo, those reasons seemed more likely to come from town. Based on the difference in how scum or town approach building town reads.

But because there is a possibility that scum could make them (and I agree that that is a possibility) Gorilla is completely dismissing it, and not actually engaging in whether that logic would be more likely to come from town or scum.

[Lukewarm]

It also makes a pretty strange leap from saying that scum!Dunn is purposefully approach to me is "terribly convenient in terms of how he's handling you."

To saying that we are partnered. Like, if you look at Dunn's play, and think that he is town reading me out of convenience, it seems to imply that he is scum approaching me in a way to get me to work with him. Yet he then says that we are partnered.

There is no reason for scum!Dunn to go out of his way to approach me that way if I am his partner. And there is no reason for scum!Luke to focus on Dunn's town read of me as the basis for my town pings on him if we are partnered.

Like, it feels like, based on the arguments he is presenting, Gorilla Should be thinking that I am getting pocketed here. Or possibly that I am White Knighting Dunn here. But instead he is calling up partnered.

[Lukewarm]

@Bell

I mean, I have info that I'm almost certain clears cakez so yeah, he's not being limmed here

like if you need to, just go lim me, then sheep me on cakez being town

@fireisred: I don't need to know further details, but can you consider letting us know if you have any idea what Kovu is talking about, and if you concur with the assessment.

I worry that the more times I see Kovu poping in with this sort of obviously antitown play; the business with RR/Mala, the fucking around with Luke, and now this, the more I wonder if it's actually deliberate.

ill say that i know what she's talking about and that i don't want to lim cakez today

[Lukewarm]

The active sum of your case against cakez is paper-thin: he was protesting about the lavar wagon was bad, and that he thought scum were pushing him because he suspected scum (a mindset that frequently comes from town.

Your case against Malakittens is that she is lurking.

These are both lazy reads that I would expect to see from someone who doesn't actually care about solving the game.

See, here he us once again misrepresenting my thoughts to make them seem ridiculous.


My thoughts on Cakez is that his reads and read confidence feel faked. That his approach felt scum motivated to look good. That he is not genuinely sorting players, especially highlighted by the way that he wrote me off as town early day 1 and appears to not be looking at me any more since.

These are all pretty strong reasons to suspect someone as being scum before we have had a scum flip to look at associative.

Buy gorilla has decided to push the narrative that I am scum with Dunn, so he is dismissing everything that i have said about every player.

Pedit: once again, he did not even ask : would scum dunn or town dunn be more likely to have given much thought to when I made the comment about looking up whether datisi was scum or town in the game I remembered.

And it is my opinion that scum dunn, already knowing that datisi and I were both town would have breezed past that post, and not thought much about it. Nor thought to bring it up as a Core Reason to think that I am town.