BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[Venus and Mars]

Didnt you say earlier that Bambi did that to create distance from a AF/Bambi team? Or was that someone else. Imma be real embarrassed if it was Hectic. I bet it was Hectic.

BP

Yeah, that was me lol. My logic was Bambi counted the votes and realised AaronFF was only on 6, so voted again which would be risky if they were scum partners, had she not counted the votes.

But Aaron might be a doc enabler since that makes sense in this setup, and there's no CCs.

-Hectic

Bambi could be scum who believed Drew was faking at L minus 1 and tried to lol hammer town AF. Doubly so if it could net Drew and Joan lynches as well to explain the neighborhood.

I’m still not seeing it but eh?

[Venus and Mars]

Technically you only have the ability to not vote there.
Did you read what I said?

???

If this is addressed to me, then I have no clue what you’re getting at.

[Venus and Mars]

That was @V&M, kinda loses the context on the next page.

I still have no clue what you were talking about.

[Venus and Mars]

Conditional

doctor.

Here Chk, this is irrefutable proof that she wasn’t lying about Loyal modifier.

it really only proves that she was planning on claiming a modifier.

No more than that because loyal is conditional.

[Venus and Mars]

She’s a LOYAL Doc but Titus is bleeding obvtown anyway.

Nancy, Joan being a loyal doc doesn't matter. docs don't get confirmation of their action going through or not.

True only when there’s no NK, does this very likely confirm it. Dann doc’d us and there was no kill in VG and some people still thought there seriously was a world we’d flip scum. Unfuckingblelievable but sometimes town really is that bad.

[Venus and Mars]

Hmm, can we lynch Chara or Chkflip or Bambi if not Nips?

I am finding their responses look like scumflail?

Look at Chkflip. He's ok with the dice enabler claim, but wants to lynch the doctor to the point where he's in a panick. He wanted a fast EoD yesterday too. Yet, he hard defends Nips because of ambiguous actions no one can prove happened. He defends him to the point where Nips has coasted without giving any content at all.

Chara is directly shading the doctor claim, which telegraphs the likely move for the scumteam today if we don't hit the enchantress if Chara is scum and no other doctor exists.

Bambi's speed hammer to save Nips was bad too.

I don’t really think Nips was in any real danger at that point but the persistence in pushing Joan is definitely concerning. I don’t think I want to lynch Drew anymore. Had he jumped on Joan, I probably would want him dead but he hasn’t so he gets town points for that.

[Venus and Mars]

Titus, i've been trying to be on your side in VCA and in the Nips issue because i trust your judgement on things of that nature and my own judgement on your alignment.

i am telling you with absolute certainty that your thought process on this is compromised if that's your conclusion. please read my recent posts with a fresher head. Joan's responses to questioning have been awful and chk (and me, and Amrun, and RCE) are noticing.

How is her thought process “compromised” and “awful” may be true but is that necessarily scum indicative or at least even remotely enough to justify her being today’s lynch? I say no.

Titus’ thought process can’t be “compromised” when I’m agreeing with it and I am wrt Joan. I think Joan lynch today is a terrible idea. Is my thought process also “compromised”?

[Venus and Mars]

Titus, i've been trying to be on your side in VCA and in the Nips issue because i trust your judgement on things of that nature and my own judgement on your alignment.

i am telling you with absolute certainty that your thought process on this is compromised if that's your conclusion. please read my recent posts with a fresher head. Joan's responses to questioning have been awful and chk (and me, and Amrun, and RCE) are noticing.

You drew scum didn't you?

We aren't touching a doc claim with a claimed enabler. That's dumb as shit.

Hard agree with the bolded.

[Venus and Mars]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Titus is never scum here in any case. As I already mentioned, Drew’s Titus’ games comparisons locked that in for me.

[Venus and Mars]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

Hmmm . . . interesting. Does this make A50 vt now?

[Venus and Mars]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

[Venus and Mars]

RCE: i was talking to Nancy, in response to her asking if i thought she was compromised. the answer is no, by the way. i said that about Titus because her conclusions recently have been singular and black and white, ie "you disagree with me, so you're scum", and "there is an Enchantress" as opposed to "something interfered with night actions and Enchantress is my theory". was also trying to talk to Titus by saying that and hopefully get a discussion about it which is why my language was stronger than normal.

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

[Venus and Mars]

I'm not interested in out-guessing the mod but to say it isn't possible or to simply ACCEPT both claims AS TOWN because they're loosely tied together is in error.

It's just as likely as there being a Goddamn enchantress.

I’m trying to remember why Creature’s actions failed. Something isn’t adding up.

[Venus and Mars]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

Interesting. Titus only claimed desperate but A50 claimed both desperate and weak @Titus, can you please explain how Joan targeting you affects your A50 clear?

We do have proof that there was a miller in the setup, so that part of his role pm is confirmed.

[Venus and Mars]

What Haggle is saying is that Titus only claimed one similarity (desperate) but is also claiming the same effect (dying on scum) as 50's role. If desperate dies on scum, then, why is 50 also weak?

Pedit: we don't collectively know why both Creature and Titus failed in their abilities on 50. But we also don't know that it must have been an enchantress.

Why does A50 have one redundant modifier? and he’s been being all weird to me since Expresso flip.

He has also never been terrible at reading me.

[Venus and Mars]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

I get what you're saying and yeah they're redundant but they aren't the same. If that makes sense.

But isn’t one of them still redundant?

[Venus and Mars]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

Did finish a game not long ago with tracker enabler as a scum role. A50 was there. Mod was also there. So idk about highly unlikely.

It’s possible but it’s still unlikely but I can see it with tracker or any kind of investigative or killing role but with doc. it really makes little sense. Why would scum have a role that is need by that town role, when both roles, tend to be protown? Scum docs aren’t common and neither are scum doc enablers.

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

Oh okay, yeah so Titus being saved has no bearing on her neighbourize failing. Could she have been blocked? but what then accounts for Creature’s actions failing?

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so

not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything

.

+1 to the bolded part. She was asking for the doc heals to get guilties. Now she forgot and says shes not sure if A50 is cleared because of the doc heal? I'm starting to get suspect of Titus.

BP

But wouldn’t it be the height of stupidity for scum!Titus to have asked for doc heals in the first place?

[Venus and Mars]

@Titus, why did you think being healed had any bearing on your A50 clear?

[Venus and Mars]

to be fair, she has been mentioning a doc heal as a reason for Almost not to be clear since she claimed, so it's not something she just suddenly said. but it does indeed not line up with the call for doc heals. just never really came up until Haggle brought it up.

pedit: Titus could have been blocked, or Almost is just town, which would also make her neighbourize fail. and there's the third option of Almost being rolestopped or an equivalent like enchantress.

pedit again: i have my own ideas about how to resolve the contradiction from Titus, but i would rather her just comment on it first as i find that the objectively better idea.

Yeah, I don’t understand why scum!Titus would even request doc heals if she was just going to slip about that later. She just probably is just misunderstanding her role.

[Venus and Mars]

@Titus, why did you think being healed had any bearing on your A50 clear?

If I was roleblocked and healed, it would create the illusion of a clear. It's very fucking remote given the desperate modifier but possible.

Drunk Titus says hi!

<3

Given an enchantress exists (creature block), I don't know A50 is clear.

How does Creature block fit in with A50?

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

Oh okay, yeah so Titus being saved has no bearing on her neighbourize failing. Could she have been blocked? but what then accounts for Creature’s actions failing?

Enchantress.

It blocks the target and all investigations on the target.

Did Creature ever claim his target? But it would logically probably be Drew or Nips based on his ISO.

@Creature

[Venus and Mars]

Creature's target was A50

Ah, interesting. Does enchantress used on A50, render his results useless?

[Venus and Mars]

Creature's target was A50

Ah, interesting. Does enchantress used on A50, render his results useless?

Enchantress
Spoiler:
Every night, you may target a player. You will force that player to commute,

meaning any actions performed by or targeting your target will fail. If your target is not aligned with town, you will also commute during the night. You will not be informed of this

. If you were to be roleblocked, your action will not go through.

Obviously A50 was the one targeted.

[Venus and Mars]

Creature's target was A50

Ah, interesting. Does enchantress used on A50, render his results useless?

Enchantress
Spoiler:
Every night, you may target a player. You will force that player to commute,

meaning any actions performed by or targeting your target will fail. If your target is not aligned with town, you will also commute during the night. You will not be informed of this

. If you were to be roleblocked, your action will not go through.

Obviously A50 was the one targeted.

That would explain both Creature RB and Nips and would mean, he isn’t clear.

So because of Creature roleblock, enchantress has to exist and A50 was the likely target and Nips did have the most reason to kill Expresso because who else would target him?

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

Or 50 was telling the truth and Titus lied to draw the doc.

BP

[Venus and Mars]

Creature's target was A50

Ah, interesting. Does enchantress used on A50, render his results useless?

Enchantress
Spoiler:
Every night, you may target a player. You will force that player to commute,

meaning any actions performed by or targeting your target will fail. If your target is not aligned with town, you will also commute during the night. You will not be informed of this

. If you were to be roleblocked, your action will not go through.

Obviously A50 was the one targeted.

That would explain both Creature RB and Nips and would mean, he isn’t clear.

So because of Creature roleblock, enchantress has to exist and A50 was the likely target and Nips did have the most reason to kill Expresso because who else would target him?

YES!

This and the VCA is why I wanted Nips

Nips’ ISO is trash and who else kills Expresso? So, A50 very like enchantress target - would explain a lot. I’m starting to get annoyed at all of the discredits and doubts on your slot. So, I will vote Nips with you but I think unless A50 acknowledges you’re on to something, I don’t think it suceeds.

But the push on Joan is definitely gross.

[Venus and Mars]

Drew is at L-2 and went radio silent.

Hmm.

Except I was posting a bunch earlier today.

So..... what's your point?

What is your opinion on the sudden push on Joan after she claimed healing Titus? Both slots are suddenly getting a lot of shit for no good reason imo.

[Venus and Mars]

Drew is at L-2 and went radio silent.

Hmm.

Except I was posting a bunch earlier today.

So..... what's your point?

What is your opinion on the sudden push on Joan after she claimed healing Titus? Both slots are suddenly getting a lot of shit for no good reason imo.

I would much prefer Aaron over Joan. Aaron didn't claim right away when thought he may have been hammered, which I think most people who are town would have done as much Then claimed a role that seemed to play off of Joan's claim(am I understanding how doc enabler works?). Easy to give Joan shit, and I am right there with people giving her shit, but don't think she is scum.

If AF is an enabler, you nerf Joan, do you realize that?

[Venus and Mars]

Drew is at L-2 and went radio silent.

Hmm.

Except I was posting a bunch earlier today.

So..... what's your point?

What is your opinion on the sudden push on Joan after she claimed healing Titus? Both slots are suddenly getting a lot of shit for no good reason imo.

I would much prefer Aaron over Joan. Aaron didn't claim right away when thought he may have been hammered, which I think most people who are town would have done as much Then claimed a role that seemed to play off of Joan's claim(am I understanding how doc enabler works?). Easy to give Joan shit, and I am right there with people giving her shit, but don't think she is scum.

If AF is an enabler, you nerf Joan, do you realize that?

Not sure I follow.

Pre Edit: Chk, have you been paying attention?

If AF’s claim is true, then once he’s dead, Joan essentially becomes just vt.

[Venus and Mars]

Is nips happening? Can nips happen? Yas plz

His flip gives us the most info, because it confirms enchantress. I think the missing piece for me was I didn’t realize Creature targeted A50, then it all started to make sense.

VOTE: Nips

[Venus and Mars]

Why would Boon have a cop enabler and a Doc enabler in the same game? That's just asking for trouble. Double enabler sounds horrid.

AF claimed doc enabler.

[Venus and Mars]

One more time.

I want one you shitlords to ask me if I'm reading or paying attention ONE MORE FUCKING TIME.

Are you even reading, Chk?

[Venus and Mars]

You're fun, Bambi. Are you West coast?

There's no reason to believe 50s clear on Nips isn't real.

People not reaching 50 =/= 50 not reaching his target.

Drew, 3 or 4 hours is apparently a long time to me?

No but for serious last I remembered you posting was when you were L-1. Apologies. I'm not an elephant, it seems.

Mars, plz no.

Creature targeting A50 changes everything. Because Creature claimed roleblock but A50 being targeted would explain a lot. Scum wouldn’t know who A50 was targeting but they knew he was targeting SOMEONE.

[Venus and Mars]

What does nips have to do with enchantress?

If A50 was targeted and based on Creature’s roleblock claim, everything. It didn’t really make any sense to me that Nips would be the target but Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, so enchantress had to be on one of them and A50 makes a helluva lot more sense then Creature. Prior to knowing that, Titus’ theory made no sense.

[Venus and Mars]

Nancy you've slipped like 7 different accounts and over 100 times this game.

Your gonna get the world record.

Only 3 actually. the other two were a one-time thing and intentional.

[Venus and Mars]

Scum alien is another possibility.

[Venus and Mars]

So did anyone else claim to target A50 and have their action fail or was it just Creature?

Just him. I know Clem claimed roleblocks were useless but I don’t know if he actually targeted anyone.

[Venus and Mars]

So did anyone else claim to target A50 and have their action fail or was it just Creature?

I targeted A50 and failed. Mine fails if blocked OR A50 is town.

VOTE: nips

Or if enchantress targeted A50.

[Venus and Mars]

So did anyone else claim to target A50 and have their action fail or was it just Creature?

I targeted A50 and failed. Mine fails if blocked OR A50 is town.

VOTE: nips

Or if enchantress targeted A50.

enchantress is very similar to alien in this setup.

[Venus and Mars]

I still only mostly understand this mech stuff

So if I get this right
Creature claimed to target A50 and have his action fail
A50 claimed to target flips
Titus claims disloyal and that her action failed on A50
I didn't do an action last night
Also someone claimed Doc enabler with Joan being the doc

Am I missing anything

Titus claimed desperate not disloyal.

AF claimed doc enabler.

[Venus and Mars]

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had

@Chemist

[Venus and Mars]

fwiw I think regardless of mech stuff flips is a bad wagon

because there's nothing mechancially implicating him, only preventing him from being mech clear

also his posting got kinda better today

He’s the only one who knows Expresso and that was a weird kill. I was 100% opposed to it until I made the connection between A50 and Creature. If Creature had targeted Drew, I wouldn’t be voting Nips.

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

R & J
Haggle
Nips

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

R & J = townflip
Haggle = confirmed to have no gun by claimed gunsmith Dave
Nips

So, with the knowledge that Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, enchantress theory is looking a lot more solid now.

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

Correct. Wagon participation also is a factor too. The higher the wagon participation the more likely one of the people is scum.

If you disagree, then scum should be heavily off wagons.

Another thing I remember you saying (I'll try to find that post in a minute) is that you thought me and BEF were driving the wagon onto R&J. What made you think this?

That was another thing I didn’t agree with.

[Venus and Mars]

We are not lynching thr claimed doc who claimed NAs. @A50, why couldn’t an enchantress have targeted you? It would definitely explain Creature’s actions failing.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

[Venus and Mars]

I'm stopping at the top of page 150, Internet to slow and I'm really tired. Will catch up tomorrow.

Also,

@Boon: Man your games are awesome, but you can't have Joan, Creature and Nips all in the same game and expect is to enjoy the game, can you??

P-edit: @VnM: You yourself have been arguing against the existence of an Enchantress to begin with. Now make up your mind, was I targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'll vote Nips) or was I NOT targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'm not moving off Joan)??

I was against it until I realized Creature targeted you because if he had targeted Drew, Nips would be clear. Nips is the only one who knows Expresso, so it’s a weird kill and he’s really not doing anything if you reread his ISO.

Also, there were 3 wagons as has already been pointed out by RCE. One on flipped town - R & J, an other on mech cleared town - Haggle (Dave checked that they had no gun) and Nips.

So, not knowing the Creature target was making Titus’ theory implausible but now that I know he targeted you, which makes way more sense than Creature because YOU actually claimed D1 and Creature did not, and since he’s the only one to claim rb, it has to be one of you and Occams Razor says you, which means that no actions either on you or executed by you were possible.

So, one of you or Creature had to have been targeted because he track on you failed but he didn’t claim anything on D1 but you did, so between the two of you, who was the most likely target? So yes, this definitely does point to the existence of an enchantress, which nullifies any NA executed on you or by you, so the clear on Nips is meaningless.

So yeah, the enchantress theory makes total sense now.

[Venus and Mars]

There's no proof 50s ability didn't go through though.

Every time you guys mention it I'm gonna keep mentioning it too.

Creature was blocked. He didn’t claim until D2, so why does scum target him? Because of Crearure roleblock, either Creature or A50 had to be the target and only A50 claimed on D1, so this isn’t exactly rocket science. The clear is extremely likely invalid and the only role fitting that is either alien or enchantress and both effectively nullify any actions taken by or on A50.

[Venus and Mars]

Still nope.

Why did Creature’s actions fail if I’m wrong?

[Venus and Mars]

I copped A50 N1 and got no result

[Venus and Mars]

As for protecting her, I mostly protected her because she is the only one I know in this playerlist.

*Sad Shiro noises*

~Venus

[Venus and Mars]

"ArE yOu EvEn ReAdInG?"

One for cops, one for doctors.

What cop enabler?

ArE yOu?

[Venus and Mars]

What does nips have to do with enchantress?

If A50 was targeted and based on Creature’s roleblock claim, everything. It didn’t really make any sense to me that Nips would be the target but Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, so enchantress had to be on one of them and A50 makes a helluva lot more sense then Creature. Prior to knowing that, Titus’ theory made no sense.

What's the direct connection to nips? Is there a claimed action I'm missing or something?

50 targeted Nips and was recharged. So either Nips is town or A50 was blocked.

BP

One of Creature/A50 had to be for his reults to fail and Creature didn’t claim anything before D2 but A50 did D1, so it obviously makes way more sense that he was the one targeted not Creature, which would mean Titus’ actions would have also failed, at the very least. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because any “coplike” actions - which could include any actions involving a desperate modifier, so enchantress absolutely could exist. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because of desperate and cop -

LIKE

abilities permanently nullified. so renegade isn’t proven or necessary because of desperate, so chk is wrong about that and Titus, likely right.

@BP if you give me shit for something when you haven’t read all the posts where I’ve explained things multiple tiles, don’t expect me to answer you.

[Venus and Mars]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

No there doesn’t because desperate and desperate no longer works because Jet wasn’t only cop enabler, he was cop-LIKE enabler- which would include desperate.

[Venus and Mars]

RCE, no joke. You didn't notice anything weird about the vote count?

Mars, I'm talking about Ejet and Frost.

It also says “cop like” not just cop so any modifier can fit that if it can function as an investigative. Scum just happened to pick the most optimal NK.

i interpreted Boon's answer to mean that it's only coplike abilities that are affected. a Desperate neighbourizer should be fine.

that said, Almost and Titus are claiming plainly different versions of Desperate.

There is a post by Boon that says desperate is affected. I’ve quoted it several times but I will ask again. just in case to be sure.

@Boon, are desperate, loyal, disloyal modifiers considered to be “cop-like”? Yes or no? Creature said he thinks his tracker ability still works but it didn’t on A50 last night.

[Venus and Mars]

"ArE yOu EvEn ReAdInG?"

One for cops, one for doctors.

What cop enabler?

ArE yOu?

Oh my gosh Nancy. Espresso already flipped as a cop enabler.

BP

These kind of posts are completely unhelpful. Especially when I’ve already responded to them.

[Venus and Mars]

Nancy, ok....didn't know exactly what enabler meant.

I kinda think this is a lie given that a cop enabler flipped and we had a big discussion about it. I dont think I buy this from you.

BP

Drew is someone who didn’t know a scum neighbourizer could exist in in Penguin, so I actually do.

I only knew that neighbors could be from different alignments because in my first game with neighbors my scum partner was in a neighborhood with a townie. So not understanding neighborhood mechanics makes sense to me in general.

In this game the first night kill was an enabler. You dont think he read the discussion about what the night kill meant? Because that's the only way he doesnt know what an enabler is.

BP

That doesn’t mean he understood doc enabler, like I said he didn’t know scum neighbourizer existed, so I do believe it from Drew. Because the cop enabler role wasn’t specifically referenced as “cop enabler”, so that’s why I didn’t make that connection at first. I did obviously KNOW that cops and cop-like roles were disabled, I just didn’t immediately make the specific connection about Jet being cop enabler, because he wasn’t actually described as one in his flip.

[Venus and Mars]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

@Chara, @Chk, @Haggle

Boon said it right there, so Titus and I are right and chk and Chara are wrong.

[Venus and Mars]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

@Chara, @Chk, @Haggle

Boon said it right there, so Titus and I are right and chk and Chara are wrong.

Renegade isn’t proven to exist, so enchantress makes the most sense.

[Venus and Mars]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

@Chara, @Chk, @Haggle

Boon said it right there, so Titus and I are right and chk and Chara are wrong.

Renegade isn’t proven to exist, so enchantress makes the most sense.

@Boon if all modifiers get disabled, then what happens to Joan’s LOYAL doc ability?

[Venus and Mars]

What does nips have to do with enchantress?

If A50 was targeted and based on Creature’s roleblock claim, everything. It didn’t really make any sense to me that Nips would be the target but Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, so enchantress had to be on one of them and A50 makes a helluva lot more sense then Creature. Prior to knowing that, Titus’ theory made no sense.

What's the direct connection to nips? Is there a claimed action I'm missing or something?

50 targeted Nips and was recharged. So either Nips is town or A50 was blocked.

BP

One of Creature/A50 had to be for his reults to fail and Creature didn’t claim anything before D2 but A50 did D1, so it obviously makes way more sense that he was the one targeted not Creature, which would mean Titus’ actions would have also failed, at the very least. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because any “coplike” actions - which could include any actions involving a desperate modifier, so enchantress absolutely could exist. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because of desperate and cop -

LIKE

abilities permanently nullified. so renegade isn’t proven or necessary because of desperate, so chk is wrong about that and Titus, likely right.

@BP if you give me shit for something when you haven’t read all the posts where I’ve explained things multiple tiles, don’t expect me to answer you.

Nancy, I'm not ignoring your posts, you're just going back on things you've already said and it's completely unpredictable. Like right now, you are using Espresso's flip to talk about the Renegade role when that is not why Chkflip thinks Renegade is in the game. He thinks Renegade is in the game because Titus claimed that she had the desperate modifier attached to her at the beginning of N1, and Renegade is the role that can attach modifiers to people.

Look, I'm reading the fucking game. I'm reading all your damn posts and that's the source of my frustration, because you're very vocal, but you're getting some of the mechanical stuff wrong. Like you did earlier when you didnt get that folks were saying Nips isnt cleared because of the likely roleblock. Now you get that, and I'm following that you get that, but I form reads by trying to follow people's logic and whether they have any. You have been difficult to read because your logic isnt really making sense to me. And its moving at times that may be convenient. That tends to be one of the ways that I form reads, so I get that your mind changed, but it seemed to change based on timing more than a natural understanding, because there was a long discussion about this earlier, but now that a lynch seems to be stalled and you didnt get your preferred lynch of Drew, now you understand that Nips isnt clear.

So please dont say I'm not reading your posts. I'm reading all of them. But you dont get to act like when your mind changed the old posts stopped existing. You pulled that shit earlier today when you had asked Joan to confirm whether there was something in her role that would confirm an enabler then acted shocked when I referred to that. I assure you, I'm reading all your damn posts. So if I ask you a question, it's for a reason, it's not because I'm ignoring you.

BP

No because you’re making unwarrented assumptions about me, which I find annoying, like shading me in this one. Saying that my reads come from “timing” as opposed to a “natural understanding”. Then you say further crap that since I didn’t get my “preferred Drew lynch”, I’m now moving on to Nips. If you continue to post bullshit like that, don’t expect me not to clock you for it.

FYI genius, If Drew was my “preferred lynch” as you insultingly put it, he’d have already been hammered, so stop fucking shading me with garbage because you are either not fucking reading or downright misrepping me and I’m 100% not okay with that.

[Venus and Mars]

What does nips have to do with enchantress?

If A50 was targeted and based on Creature’s roleblock claim, everything. It didn’t really make any sense to me that Nips would be the target but Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, so enchantress had to be on one of them and A50 makes a helluva lot more sense then Creature. Prior to knowing that, Titus’ theory made no sense.

What's the direct connection to nips? Is there a claimed action I'm missing or something?

50 targeted Nips and was recharged. So either Nips is town or A50 was blocked.

BP

One of Creature/A50 had to be for his reults to fail and Creature didn’t claim anything before D2 but A50 did D1, so it obviously makes way more sense that he was the one targeted not Creature, which would mean Titus’ actions would have also failed, at the very least. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because any “coplike” actions - which could include any actions involving a desperate modifier, so enchantress absolutely could exist. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because of desperate and cop -

LIKE

abilities permanently nullified. so renegade isn’t proven or necessary because of desperate, so chk is wrong about that and Titus, likely right.

@BP if you give me shit for something when you haven’t read all the posts where I’ve explained things multiple tiles, don’t expect me to answer you.

Nancy, I'm not ignoring your posts, you're just going back on things you've already said and it's completely unpredictable. Like right now, you are using Espresso's flip to talk about the Renegade role when that is not why Chkflip thinks Renegade is in the game. He thinks Renegade is in the game because Titus claimed that she had the desperate modifier attached to her at the beginning of N1, and Renegade is the role that can attach modifiers to people.

Look, I'm reading the fucking game. I'm reading all your damn posts and that's the source of my frustration, because you're very vocal, but you're getting some of the mechanical stuff wrong. Like you did earlier when you didnt get that folks were saying Nips isnt cleared because of the likely roleblock. Now you get that, and I'm following that you get that, but I form reads by trying to follow people's logic and whether they have any. You have been difficult to read because your logic isnt really making sense to me. And its moving at times that may be convenient. That tends to be one of the ways that I form reads, so I get that your mind changed, but it seemed to change based on timing more than a natural understanding, because there was a long discussion about this earlier, but now that a lynch seems to be stalled and you didnt get your preferred lynch of Drew, now you understand that Nips isnt clear.

So please dont say I'm not reading your posts. I'm reading all of them. But you dont get to act like when your mind changed the old posts stopped existing. You pulled that shit earlier today when you had asked Joan to confirm whether there was something in her role that would confirm an enabler then acted shocked when I referred to that. I assure you, I'm reading all your damn posts. So if I ask you a question, it's for a reason, it's not because I'm ignoring you.

BP

No because you’re making unwarrented assumptions about me, which I find annoying, like shading me in this one. Saying that my reads come from “timing” as opposed to a “natural understanding”. Then you say further crap that since I didn’t get my “preferred Drew lynch”, I’m now moving on to Nips. If you continue to post bullshit like that, don’t expect me not to clock you for it - figuratively speaking, that is.

FYI genius, If Drew was my “preferred lynch” as you insultingly put it, he’d have already been hammered, so stop fucking shading me with garbage because you are either not fucking reading or downright misrepping me and I’m 100% not okay with that.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

One specific role.

Juvenile Delinquent?

Only if Nips isn’t scum because he’s really the only one who’d logically have reason to kill Jet otherwise but even then, you’d have to be assuming that scum would know that he was cop enabler. So, how could they possibly know that on N1?

[Venus and Mars]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

+1

Yes, well that’s why his bs shading is pissing me off, because he’s selectively reading my posts and it’s really not okay, because instead of asking me to clarify, he just unfairly shades me instead.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

One specific role.

Juvenile Delinquent?

Only if Nips isn’t scum because he’s really the only one who’d logically have reason to kill Jet otherwise but even then, you’d have to be assuming that scum would know that he was cop enabler. So, how could they possibly know that on N1?

By his reluctance to accept chkflip

Ej, pick someone you're town-reading and sheep them.

I would rather not

You mean THIS post?

[Venus and Mars]

@A50, Titus and Chemist, did you get a message from the mod that your ability no longer worked?

No

Well, even if enchantress isn’t confirmed, no reason A50 couldn’t have been alien jk’d or a combination of rolestopped and roleblocked. We know Creature’s actions failed, which has to mean either he or A50 were targeted, unless A50 was lying about not being aesetic which seems unlikely. And only A50 claimed D1, not Creature, so it’s extremely unlikely Creature was the one targeted.

[Venus and Mars]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

+1

Yes, well that’s why his bs shading is pissing me off, because he’s selectively reading my posts and it’s really not okay, because instead of asking me to clarify, he just unfairly shades me instead.

Nancy, it's because when I've asked you to clarify you told me you weren't answering questions. Fuck I'm gonna ignore your slot for a bit.

BP

I’m not answering things I’ve already explained. Probably better to let Hectic talk to me because it seems we are continually misunderstanding each other.

[Venus and Mars]

I’m not answering things I’ve already explained.

This is one of the things that causes unnecessary friction in games.
If there is someone who doesn't understand, then you have not explained. Answering questions is the only right thing to do.

Or he can actually make an effort to try to read me better and not throw unwarrented shade at me but I’m not upset about him asking me questions, I’m annoyed by the WAY he’s been asking those questions.

[Venus and Mars]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

[Venus and Mars]

@Chara, if Dave is right about scum being informed about delinquent, than how does chk claiming miller help find delinquent?

[Venus and Mars]

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

that's fair. i didn't personally read any of it as attacks, but then again i'm not the one he's talking to.
i definitely felt like replying angrily when Titus dismissed me last night when i said i was feeling burnt out with "go talk to Nips in your PT". but she did say she was drunk before i even started speaking to her, and it wasn't exactly an insult to begin with.
but what i my point is that i understand the feeling.

Well him saying things like it’s “timing” not “natural understanding” and then nonsense about my not getting my “preferred lynch”, when I was the one who started to reconsider it, is of course infuriating because anyone who is reading my posts would see how that makes 0 sense.

[Venus and Mars]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

Nancy, I already got cleared by Dave. So if I'm asking you a question its genuine. That doesnt mean I'm correct, but my agenda is to discern your alignment through tracking your logic. Not to shade you or make you look bad.

BP

I didn’t say I sr you for it or anything just that - and I honestly don’t mean to offend here but fmpov - you thinking my change of reads were based on “timing” and not “natural progression” and that I didn’t get my “preferred lynch”, when I was the one reconsidering it - fmpov, defy all logic but if you ask me questions without looking like you’re trying to confibias me or something, I will respond to you a lot more nicely.

So, I understand you obviously have no intention of doing that but it’s still nevertheless coming across like that to me.

[Venus and Mars]

wtf is an enchantress?

Enchantress
Spoiler:
Every night, you may target a player. You will force that player to commute, meaning any actions performed by or targeting your target will fail. If your target is not aligned with town, you will also commute during the night. You will not be informed of this. If you were to be roleblocked, your action will not go through.

[Venus and Mars]

Titus, I've voted for fewer people and fewer times than you. So for you to say I'm willing to lynch anyone is a laughable misrepresentation of what has actually transpired in this game. Especially considering I've spent today locked on all of two people.

"He'S a MaNiAc!"

Garbage.

Chara, you made me smile. In a game filled with rage and hate I just wanted to say I appreciate you.

dave, no. Plz no. Nips is non-mechanically null and there are too many non-existent people in this game for me to agree that Nips is the one out of the half dozen that need to be lynched. Joan, Clem, BEF... all arguably better lynches from a non-existent standpoint. And I townread one of them earlier!

You're on the wrong side of this, bud.

Mars, do you always devolve to being disrespectful when you feel like you're being misrepresented? If so, can I please get a few links for both alignments where you've acted like this?

50, what happened my dude? You get busy or something? You're kinda required here to nip this desperate/weak thing in the bud. I could just quote your last correspondence to the whole sitch but I'm feeling a little drainypoo from having to exhaustively (I'd say aggressively but I might ping dave and his wrinkles frighten me) go to work on this Enchantress nonsense.

Joan, BEF, Nips, Clem, Frost, Creature: more posty plz bb ty ily.

ISO me in Mystery Box of Silver 1, if you think that’s AI. You’ve already seen one of my scumgames, however I take issue with you calling anything I’ve done so far in this game as even being remotely disrespectful. You can also metacheck me. I’m not looking through all of my games but the proof is there.

[Venus and Mars]

My interpretation of what Boon said is that the (role) abilities are what gets disabled.
Modifiers are not affected and desperate is a modifier.

Mine as well. I think it’s pretty clear.

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

I have reason to highly doubt Renegade exists. That’s all I’ll say.

What's your read of Titus?

BP

Town. Probably can’t be dissuaded from this.

+1

Drew’s Titus’ game comparisons make that obvious.

[Venus and Mars]

I have seen you scum flail and them vibes are here. Thus the question.

Joan, Clem, BEF... all arguably better lynches from a non-existent standpoint.

Why?

Also, if you flip scum, I am using the rule of 3 here.

I've meta-dove 2/3 of them and regardless of alignment they lurksack to the nth degree.

Nips is no different.

What's the rule of 3? I'm unfamiliar with it (or at least I'm not remembering it offhand).

Your consistent slow roast of setting me up for a future lynch is awfully brave of you, btw.

I don’t know if this is directed to me or not but I’m neither flailing nor scum here. My play here should have already made that beyond obvious to you.

[Venus and Mars]

@Chara, if Dave is right about scum being informed about delinquent, than how does chk claiming miller help find delinquent?

You're so close to seeing it on your own here.

I’m unfortunately still not but I’m interpreting this as you agreeing with Chara?

Unless you think he was trying to get Jet to CC. but that would be beyond insane for Jet to have done that with such an important role.

I don’t really care much for his recent posts shading me and labelling me as being “disrespectful”, because I honestly don’t think I have been but what bothers me is that he is fixating on that to the exclusion of everything else I’ve done in this game and that’s the only part of that that concerns me. It’s valid for him to be suspicious of my reactions since I got pissed at him as scum in the only other game I’ve played with him for sr me for the wrong reasons but for him to ignore practically every other single thing I’ve done in this game and suddenly push me only AFTER Chara is sr him, is definitely concerning. Like why now? Why wasn’t chk suspicious of that after my 1v1 with BP on D1? He never even mentioned anything but now that he’s being sr, suddenly it’s an issue for him ?

[Venus and Mars]

chk: i see you already answered Titus on it, so i'll reword my question to be: why are Clem or BEF (not including Joan because there are reasons for her to be scum that i'm aware of) necessarily better lynches than Nips? i'd quess it was the possible clear but we're talking non-mech reasons i think.
i can also say that while i lack scumgames with Nancy (i think..?) her play and reactions haven't contradicted anything i know from town her.

Nancy: delinquent has a miller component (it investigates as mafia) and so a miller claim from chk could be used to get the town delinquent to react in some way, either by CCing or by distrusting chk's claim, is what i think was dave's point.

Oh I see but you’re memory needs some work. You’ve forgotten Overkill 1 but I was technically an SK, so it is true I’ve never been mafia in a game with you before. Yes exactly, which is why I’m seriously floored by chk’s fixating on my emotional reactions to the exclusion of everything else I’ve done in this game. So, I’m no longer hard townreading him for that.

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

Correct. Wagon participation also is a factor too. The higher the wagon participation the more likely one of the people is scum.

If you disagree, then scum should be heavily off wagons.

This is true, I think it's considerably likely that scum was on it as well regardless of nips's alignment seeing that he was (still is) lurking. It was an easy wagon they could hop onto without their hands getting dirty.

I'm still not convinced nips is the best lynch today but I do think he should go before we hit lylo.

Who’s your alternative then? I think considering that one of Creature/A50 had to have been roleblocked /rolestopped and only A50 claimed anything on D1, Nips wagon makes the most sense because if he’s scum, it could be based on him playing rl mafia with jet but there does seem to be a huge resistance to it and then there’s the dumb Joan push as well.

[Venus and Mars]

I kinda feel like this entire day has just been a lot of back and forth between the same few people explaining the same things over and over again. I think we need another flip.

PEDIT: Honestly I'd rather do Drew than flipple nips today because I think he has a higher chance of flipping scum.

I think that knowing that Creature’s actions failing on A50, make Nips’ more informative. Also, that wagon almost went to L-1 with virtually no resistance, so unless you think scum was bussing, it seemed weird to me.

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

Correct. Wagon participation also is a factor too. The higher the wagon participation the more likely one of the people is scum.

If you disagree, then scum should be heavily off wagons.

This is true, I think it's considerably likely that scum was on it as well regardless of nips's alignment seeing that he was (still is) lurking. It was an easy wagon they could hop onto without their hands getting dirty.

I'm still not convinced nips is the best lynch today but I do think he should go before we hit lylo.

Who’s your alternative then? I think considering that one of Creature/A50 had to have been roleblocked /rolestopped and only A50 claimed anything on D1, Nips wagon makes the most sense because if he’s scum, it could be based on him playing rl mafia with jet but there does seem to be a huge resistance to it and then there’s the dumb Joan push as well.

Whichever one was roleblocked depends on whether or not we have an enchantress. Creature def could've been roleblocked (possibly by town as well) or A50 rolestopped. I made a whole post explaining this and it got ignored

You do have a point about him knowing jet irl though. Is flippy nips the kind of player who would tend to kill those that know him?

I legit have no clue but no one else on this playerlist has had any experience playing mafia with Jet, so maybe Jet is good at reading him?

[Venus and Mars]

NIP FLIP

you answered it.
sorry, busy right now but reading along. had to quote nip flip, it was important.

Spoiler:

wardrobe malfunction?

[Venus and Mars]

So why aren't you voting him? He has some suspect things, such as Bambi's role is likely town but he didn't know what it did. Joan is apathetic, awkward and partially useful. Yet, you go for the useful role instead.

Who needs an umbrella with such hard shade like this?

Well I prefer a fan over shade to keep me cool. An umbrella is best used to stop rain and light snow.

I feel like Chk is being inefficient with his cooling methods and is therefore hot amd irrational.

He is throwing out assive amounts of AtE to get his way, which is kind of hilarious, regardless of the reason.

[Venus and Mars]

She entertained me by rattling you up.

Does that count?

LMFAO

[Venus and Mars]

NIP FLIP

How many nipples could flippynips flip if flippynips could flip nipples?

It would be really unny if chk doubled/tripled down against a nip flip if he made a typo.

[Venus and Mars]

To paraphrase Titus's VCA, there were 3 wagons all at 5 or so, and two of those have flipped or been mech cleared as town. This implies the 3rd wagon was on scum.

Correct. Wagon participation also is a factor too. The higher the wagon participation the more likely one of the people is scum.

If you disagree, then scum should be heavily off wagons.

This is true, I think it's considerably likely that scum was on it as well regardless of nips's alignment seeing that he was (still is) lurking. It was an easy wagon they could hop onto without their hands getting dirty.

I'm still not convinced nips is the best lynch today but I do think he should go before we hit lylo.

This doesnt make any sense. . . You're claiming to agree with Titus, but your analysis is completely different from hers and basically amounts to scum would just push low activity slots. Aside from Drew who else is scum?

BP

Scum aren't necessarily the ones doing the push, they're more likely to hop onto the bandwagon and later claim they were on him to get content out of him.

Drew is my strongest sr atm which is why I want to do him today

At least be a gentleman and buy me dinner first.

Apologies if the answers to any of these questions have already been......uh, answered.

Aaron, thoughts on Bambi? Also, on Chkflip.

BP, why would I lie about not knowing what the enabler is/does? All this talk about various modifiers and I forgot that's what espresso had. Yes now I remember......what do I get by lying that I didn't know what it was?

Nancy, why are you only now using the Penguin game to defend/town read(?) me when before you said I was playing much different then it.

Amrun, are you just sheeping Titus or truly believe in flippynips as scum?

Chkflip, you mentioned Titus' vaugness like it surprised you......really?(more statement than question I guess).

Dave, can you stop having the same first name as me........ annoying that everytime someone addresses you I think they are adressing me. Work on that please.

I know that a lack of mech knowledge is never scum indicative for you. Before your wagon nearly got to L-1, I thought scum was opposed to it but it doesn’t seem that way anymore, so I’m recessing my read on you but I’m still really glad it happened because the thread has gone nuts since the wagon flipped to Nips.

[Venus and Mars]

@DrDrew: I don’t believe that flippyNips has to be scum. I do believe he could be scum. The main salient points for me are titus’ VCA, which I like, and NKA, which I believe implicates nip.

+ the fact that it’s extremely likely that scum targeting A50 was extremely likely to be the reason for Creature’s actions failing.

[Venus and Mars]

So why aren't you voting him? He has some suspect things, such as Bambi's role is likely town but he didn't know what it did. Joan is apathetic, awkward and partially useful. Yet, you go for the useful role instead.

Who needs an umbrella with such hard shade like this?

Well I prefer a fan over shade to keep me cool. An umbrella is best used to stop rain and light snow.

I feel like Chk is being inefficient with his cooling methods and is therefore hot amd irrational.

He is throwing out assive amounts of AtE to get his way, which is kind of hilarious, regardless of the reason.

NIP FLIP

How many nipples could flippynips flip if flippynips could flip nipples?

It would be really unny if chk doubled/tripled down against a nip flip if he made a typo.

Color me paranoid.

But, why is the M missing from massive and the F missing from funny?

Oh a typo, I’m still a bit tipsy rn.

[Venus and Mars]

@DrDrew: I don’t believe that flippyNips has to be scum. I do believe he could be scum. The main salient points for me are titus’ VCA, which I like, and NKA, which I believe implicates nip.

+ the fact that it’s extremely likely that scum targeting A50 was extremely likely to be the reason for Creature’s actions failing.

This was the post directly after I posted about the missing letters, you seem pretty lucid here.

And it does not seem like a drunken typo, everything else about your posts are fine.

You’re right I don’t need to be slightly drunk to make typos, though it definitely helps.

[Venus and Mars]

Nancy........ explain.

What? I’m still tipsy and made a typ. what of it?

[Venus and Mars]

Nancy........ explain.

What? I’m still tipsy and made a typ. what of it?

Are you on mobile?

iPad, why do you keep doing this?

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Venus and Mars

No I didn’t. Why do you keep acting so scummy? *smdh*

[Venus and Mars]

Stop being a gamethrowing woat, if you’re town here. You’re again derailing the game again over what? I don’t even know.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Venus and Mars

No I didn’t. Why do you keep acting so scummy? *smdh*

I don't think any scum votes you here. Seriously, the odds if getting you lynched is abysmal.

Yeah but what exactly is his continued obsession with me all damn game? But if anyone actually sheeps him, we know they’re scumclaiming, so do you think any scum would be insane enough to do that?

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Venus and Mars

No I didn’t. Why do you keep acting so scummy? *smdh*

You can't post on mobile, with autocorrect, and miss the first letter of a word and still complete the rest of the word.

You are lying.

Pre Edit: Titus, you don't think there is something here?

I don’t use it anyway, because it would substitute words that made literally no sense, so I prefer the typos. I’m also dyslexic, are you going to sr me for that too?

Also mobile cuts the screen off, so it makes reading the thread more difficult.

[Venus and Mars]

Actually I did read it right.....Titus....wtf?

Can yoi seriously stop woating for once this game?

[Venus and Mars]

I have never seen any typos from you before.

I post drunkenly many times, including now.

You can't post on mobile without posting the first letter of a word and expect the rest of the word to magically appear.

It is impossible, and you are lying.

Pre Edit: Oh look, and now you are trying to act like you are posting drunk.....

I’m done with this ridiculously stupid conversation. If you’re town here, your idiocy is just going to get you lynched and once again derailing this game. If you’re town, scum probably has built a shrine to you in their PT.

[Venus and Mars]

I am not on mobile nor have I got autocorrect turned on and I haven’t lied about jack. Why am I even responding to this? Why God, Why?

[Venus and Mars]

she doesn't use autocorrect.

Chara , pls help my remaining synapses are screaming out in agony.

[Venus and Mars]

but her super secret message is definitely Murder Fonz. watch your back.

I like him a lot better than Frank.

[Venus and Mars]

eople ont eally hink hat ropping he irst etter f ords s cummy

But why on specific words when the rest of the post was perfect?

And why was her posts perfectly fine, until she mentioned she was drunk.....and then tried to post like she was drunk.

And now apparently isn't drunk anymore?

Come on.

[Venus and Mars]

Drew are you scumreading Titus or not?

Did she make any suspicious typos invoking allegiance to the illuminati, Satanic nursery rhymes or Nickleback? If not, I’d say probably not.

[Venus and Mars]

Drew are you scumreading Titus or not?

Did she make any suspicious typos invoking allegiance to the illuminati, Satanic nursery rhymes or Nickleback? If not, I’d say probably not.

Nah, Nickelback references are locktown.

BP

So Drew is IC now?

[Venus and Mars]

50 needs to make a Goddamn appearance so we know who our 4 off-the-table townies are.

As far as I'm quote up (this post I'm quoting) Nip isn't cleared. I get the feeling I was targeted by an Alien (a combination of Jailkeeper & Rolestopper for those who don't know what an Alien is) and this would be the simplest explanation for why TWO players actions failed on me (assuming Creature is telling the truth). If that's the case, then I was recharged because my action didn't go through due to the JK, and not because my target was not group scum.

~The brainy one.

Creature’s ability on you failed because thanks to Expresso death, all cop-like actions fail.

You still think this to be true?

No, I think you were targeted. I didn’t understand jd didn’t affect N1 att.

[Venus and Mars]

Creature’s ability on you failed because thanks to Expresso death, all cop-like actions fail.

And now that you know that wasn't it, can you please consider mu proposition? I'll even switch the word "Alien" with a new magical word: ENCHANTER. Same effect though.

So you do think there’s an enchantress? What about renegade since Titus thinks both roles exist in this setup.

And what about renegade?

Creature’s action on you failed but only you claimed on D1.

[Venus and Mars]

@Creature, did you ever say what your flavour was?

Were you still unaware Creature's ability failed on me at this point?

I knew it failed, I just misunderstood that it had nothing to do with jd.

[Venus and Mars]

At least Drew has a chance to be scum, but I'd look down on any wagon that's not Nips.

Titus, you are not thinking straight

. You’re advocating lynching a slot that a player you have a clear on, A50 - who also has a clear on - Nips is invalid.

Do you seriously not realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Did you mean straight as in direct or did you misspell strait?

Are you making a typo joke or something? Yeah, duh! of course I meant the body of water.

[Venus and Mars]

Are you saying @Titus, that if we don’t vote Drew, we’re going to be some kind of target?

VOTE: Drew

I think Titus is crumbing something here that might involve Drew?

I have no idea what but she’s saying we’re in danger if we don’t vote him or something? I don’t understand this but it may possibly be role related.

Nothing I said about Drew was role related. All I said was if one of us was unwittingly doing scum's bidding, it will show. It's easy enough to case Drew and I'm tired of fighting and dealing with the double standard.

???

There really is no good reason to even think an enchantress exists at this point but I think because you were told you lost your neighbourizing abilities or something? I can’t remember now exactly, my guess would be on

Renegade

Spoiler:
Each night, you may give a modifier (out of a given list) out to a player.

This can be a permanent modifier

or apply to only the next action.

this one > enchantress, because you actually have evidence of this based on your abilities not working anymore, right? and the rest - ie.

Creature is explained by Expresso flip

, so no real evidence of enchantress but if you’re actually right and there actually is one, there’s no real evidence that enchantress targeted A50 anyway.

So at this point in the game, any pretty much confirmed slots should not even be considered for a lynch. When we get closer to LYLO, we can worry about WIFOM then but that’s still a long way off and unconfirmed scummy looking slots are the most logical way to go.

What made you change your stance and believe there might be an Enchantress then?

Because Creature targeted you. Before knowing that, enchantress theory made 0 sense.

[Venus and Mars]

There really is no good reason to even think an enchantress exists at this point but I think because you were told you lost your neighbourizing abilities or something? I can’t remember now exactly, my guess would be on

Creature's ability is a known failure.
My neighborize didn't happen, which means either A50 is town or I never targeted him.
Scum targeted me to make me desperate.
A50 targeting Nips means either Nips is town, A50 is scum or A50 was interfered with.

To believe that Nips is clear you must believe

1) There is no enchantress
2) Scum roleblocked Creature over a known investigative in A50.

It makes oodles more sense that scum just sent an enchantress onto A50, regardless of his alignment.

What this is telling me is scum is likely terrified of Creature

, so maybe ISO Creature for clues on that and yes, Creature was targeted in Starcraft 1 and NK’d, so why do you think that’s an impossibility? See, yet another reason why Drew isn’t clear because Creature expressed suspicion on him I believe, as well as Nips but only one of them has a potential clear and it isn’t Drew. But Creature had to have been targeted by scum, so yeah - another reason to assume A50 wasn’t.

What made them stop within the very same dayphase??

You claimed D1, Creature didn’t iirc and his actions on you failed, so occams razor.

[Venus and Mars]

OK, I think my point has been made abundantly clear even Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, and Helen Keller saw it! I'ma stop being silly now.

Which was?

[Venus and Mars]

+1

[Venus and Mars]

"ArE yOu EvEn ReAdInG?"

One for cops, one for doctors.

What cop enabler?

ArE yOu?

Yes, chkflip. WHAT Cop Enabler??

Yes, it’s hilarious that I didn’t immediately make the connection between JD flip and that, since it was never actually stated but yeah, go ahead and make fun of me.

[Venus and Mars]

Mars, please stop using terminology incorrectly.

Holy shit.

Am I supposed to have a clue what this is referring to?

[Venus and Mars]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

How about the toothfairy?

How do you and chk explain Cfeature’s action on you failing if one of you wasn’t targeted and why Creature - who never claimed unti D 2 over you who claimed D1?

[Venus and Mars]

Nevermind, I'm being a dick.

I’m not annoyed with you - the guy who claims not to be insulting me otoh, meh.

[Venus and Mars]

Is this real?


Wtf?

You mean BEF vigging hardclaimed knifesmith, unfortunately, it looks legit, since he said it ends the day, so yeah. :/

[Venus and Mars]

Rolestopper, for the last fucking time.

So, then Titus didn’t clear him and why couldn’t there have been a roleblocker as well? Why does scum rolestop A50 only but not roleblock him?

[Venus and Mars]

@A50, Titus and Chemist, did you get a message from the mod that your ability no longer worked?

You're obviously

not reading MY posts

then. I DID NOT BLOODY GET ANY FUCKING MESSAGE TO THAT EFFECT. I got MY BLOODY 1-SHOT RECHARGED. That is the ONLY PM I got.

If you were roleblocked, wouldn’t you get the same result?

[Venus and Mars]

My ability works. I explicitly asked the mod during the confusion. Modifiers do NOT get disabled.

You are wrong. Boon is wrong. Chara is wrong.

P.S. Don't mind me.

Boon is wrong?

???

[Venus and Mars]

Rolestopper, for the last fucking time.

So, then Titus didn’t clear him and why couldn’t there have been a roleblocker as well? Why does scum rolestop A50 only but not roleblock him?

Titus never cleared him.

You can't roleblock someone that's rolestopped.

That's not how that works.

Amrun said she has reason to think renegade didn’t exist and enchantress would then back up what Titus was saying, because I just really don’t understand why scum would rolestop A50. If it’s not possible to do both, then wouldn’t roleblocker make way more sense? Why does scum rolestop him?

[Venus and Mars]

I'm not following Nancy. Are you assuming A50 was targeted twice?

Apparently you can’t be both rolestopped and roleblocked. And obviously rolestop would explain Creature fail but why? Why does scum rolestop A50 rather than roleblock him? Unless rolestopper is town, so alien doesn’t exist? It did in LNT.

[Venus and Mars]

Nancy,

Of all the people here, you believe my vig claim?

Are you saying it was a joke?

You said your action ended the day, right? That sounded legit.

[Venus and Mars]

Why does it have to be scum? I see merit in a town! rolestopper targeting A50. Also you're assuming scum would have both abilities.

Also there is evidence renegade exists unless you think Titus and I are scum together fabricating it.

No, I’m not assuming anything but Amrun said she has reason to doubt it. Why would you jump to the conclusion I think either of you are scum? Yes, if no enchantress then town rolestopper would make sense.

[Venus and Mars]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

I have reason to highly doubt Renegade exists

. That’s all I’ll say.

[Venus and Mars]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

I have reason to highly doubt Renegade exists

. That’s all I’ll say.

@Amrun what is your explanation for Titus getting the message that her abilities are now disabled?

[Venus and Mars]

Because we've claimed modifiers we didn't start with. If there is no renegade then we're both lying or this game is bastard.

So why do you think Amrun is saying this, then?

[Venus and Mars]

I saw her post it. I don't see how Amrun could know if a role does or doesn't exist. Or how she explains modifiers being given without a renegade.

I have no idea but she seems to be extremely confident about it.

[Venus and Mars]

Amrun doubts the existence of renegade but she hard tr Titus, so that’s all I got. I definitely believe that you and Titus believe renegade exists but Amrun doesn’t.

[Venus and Mars]

I don't know. First thought was attempting to discredit Titus' claim but she's lined up with Titus gameview and isn't pushing that angle.

So it sticks out as an odd comment but I haven't been able to parse it.

Yeah, clearly no discredit.

[Venus and Mars]

my guesses are Almost misunderstanding

Boon: Can I quote my Role PM and get modkilled for it, but receive no site-wide ban??

Alternatively, we could lynch me and see how my Role PM is phrased exactly, the lynch Titus next (my bet is she would also be a mislynch) and you all can live happily ever after.

You know Boon can’t answer yes to that? He doesn’t even have the authority to modkill anyone without consulting the listmod first.

And if Varsoon direct quoting his role pm is any indication, I don’t see how you wouldn’t receive a ban, because it would be deliberate and if Boon granted you permission, he’d be looking at a ban himself.

[Venus and Mars]

Amrun doubts the existence of renegade but she hard tr Titus, so that’s all I got. I definitely believe that you and Titus believe renegade exists but Amrun doesn’t.

It doesn't make sense as a scumplay at least.

I have no reason to think either of you don’t believe renegade exists but I don’t think Amrun would be so confident about that without good reason either. And there isn’t anything that says there can only be one variant role, is there?

[Venus and Mars]

These roles are roles that have been seen before, but are not free reign. One of these roles is acceptable, if more are used, they will take the spot of a variant role.

@Boon, how many variants are allowed?

[Venus and Mars]

We need a VC.

A50 don't quote your role PM.

Amrun, there is a renegade.

There can be 2 variants. Check first post.

Are you not aware that BEF just claimed to vig the knifesmith and end the day?

[Venus and Mars]

Aww screw it, I guess I have to do this now just to get "involved"

DAYVIG: davesaz

my ability ends the day too, so do your twilight stuff

[Venus and Mars]

Well we can lynch nips tmo. Then bef. Then bambi.

I doubt he’s a scum dayvig, so he probably gets rssolved, probably sooner than later.

[Venus and Mars]

Well we can lynch nips tmo. Then bef. Then bambi.

We can’t lynch anyone until D3 now.

[Venus and Mars]

Fishie this is the third fucking time I've seen you claim Dayvig. I fear the day nobody believes you anymore but you roll Dayvig legit and fuck everything up.

I can always count on bambi to get it.

So was it fake then? Did you just give us all a heart attack for nothing?

[Venus and Mars]

Why does it have to be scum? I see merit in a town! rolestopper targeting A50. Also you're assuming scum would have both abilities.

Also there is evidence renegade exists unless you think Titus and I are scum together fabricating it.

If you're saying that you also gained a modifier then there would need to be a motivator or two renegades. Maybe even a motivated (as a modifier) renegade.
If something else changed (not a modifier change) it could be another gate-like role or something similar. In BT games (which are

not

normal) a mechanic can exist which has nothing to do with any of the roles, modifiers, or variants. Despite the whole 1/2 new/variant roles thing. Actually a straight up inventor that removes stuff instead of adding it would possibly count as just a modified inventor and thus not even be a variant.
Imagine the game has

no boxes

. That's what a BooneyToonz game is.

So inventor could mean enchantress could still exist.

[Venus and Mars]

Fishie this is the third fucking time I've seen you claim Dayvig. I fear the day nobody believes you anymore but you roll Dayvig legit and fuck everything up.

I can always count on bambi to get it.

So was it fake then? Did you just give us all a heart attack for nothing?

Sorry for the PTSD trigger. Yeah it was fake.

@Bambi

Lessduuittt

VOTE: Aaron

Well thank God for that. At least you didn’t claim a fake guilty.

[Venus and Mars]

In a world which could have a town doc we're not lynching a doc enabler. It self resolves.
Hopefully my memory is correct of who that is. If I've misremembered then let me know.

AF

[Venus and Mars]

In a world which could have a town doc we're not lynching a doc enabler. It self resolves.
Hopefully my memory is correct of who that is. If I've misremembered then let me know.

Actually wait a second. Monkey Hippie Judge Man, why aren't you defending the one clear you got and are going along with it, or atleast just ignoring it?

Fucking lead us again.

Keep on reading. I am pushing Joan now. She made quite a few inconsistent declarations that make no sense what-so-ever.

Lynching non CC’d doc, even dumber than enabler but both are bad imo.

[Venus and Mars]

If it wasn't obvious by now, I'm hard town-reading 50. I've no reason to believe that he full outs as scum from a page 5 Miller claim. That's just so fucking weird and out of the realm of possibility even for him. Or RCE. Or even Flavor Leaf. WHO WOULD DO THAT!?

I feel honoured to be mentioned alongside these two. It feels like I've just received a Grammy/Oscar nominaton.

Why don’t you two just get a room already?

[Venus and Mars]

Why don’t you two just get a room already?

What, and miss your couple of hundred alt slips, your wall quotes and you being obtuse about most anything and everything, not to mention you insulting other people in ways that are much more explicit than the ones you claim to be insults directed at you?? NEVER!

Okay, well consider us no longer friends in that case.

[Venus and Mars]

50JP

Just tell us in exactly 8 words if you are scum or not. Then the issue will be resolved.

I honestly don’t know rn, which one would crush me more. He has never acted like this much of a douche to me ever and I’m not going to forgive him for it regardless of alignment.

[Venus and Mars]

50JP

Just tell us in exactly 8 words if you are scum or not. Then the issue will be resolved.

I honestly don’t know rn, which one would crush me more. He has never acted like this much of a douche to me ever and I’m not going to forgive him for it regardless of alignment.

I just never really thought he’d be capable of being this mean.

[Venus and Mars]

Lynching non CC’d doc, even dumber than enabler but both are bad imo.

For someone who claims to be sensitive to the slightest hint of them not thinking straight I find this post to be overly offensive!

Good! After what you just said to me, it’s the least of what you deserve.

[Venus and Mars]

Lynching non CC’d doc, even dumber than enabler but both are bad imo.

For someone who claims to be sensitive to the slightest hint of them not thinking straight I find this post to be overly offensive!

Good! After what you just said to me, it’s the least of what you deserve.

And it’s also true. Lynching non CC’d doc on D2, IS seriously fucking dumb!

[Venus and Mars]

Finally! non-mechanical talk. I think drew is stirring the pot and a lot of his post have seemed very off to me. Granted this was damn near 100 pages ago & I should probably skim thru his iso (as well as everyone else) weeding thru the mech talk seems grueling tho. And all that other pointless stuff



At one point I was very certain that V&M and Titus were town, but as the games progress my paranoia has grown especially with Titus going after me for something that’s pointless to probably started to wear me down. Idr what V&M did that I was meh on but I think I want them to just be town today. From what I’ve seen of everyone else I have a null paranoia on. Like I want to trust chkflip for defending me so hard on something that I basically didn’t care to defend myself on but I’m like what if He’s my white knight so that makes me really paranoid about him. The only one that’s just a classic null is Clem & the fonz I think & that’s just coz I haven’t seen them much

VOTE: Clemency

[Venus and Mars]

Why does it have to be scum? I see merit in a town! rolestopper targeting A50. Also you're assuming scum would have both abilities.

Also there is evidence renegade exists unless you think Titus and I are scum together fabricating it.

How are you implicated in the fabrication?

BP

Scum assigned Desperate at start of night 1.

I think there is a little reaching going on here.
You received a desperate (if we believe that) before your action took place. Whether it was beginning of night or not is another question.
But I can't find a scum motivation for claiming this and specifically claiming something that would cement A50 unless A50 is also scum.
Which means you're probably town but possibly misguided about what happened.

She is CLEARLY saying, “desperate” wasn’t in her role pm. I think Titus knows that her role has to have been changed. Titus is not terrible at understanding game mechanics, so I don’t understand why you are doubting this. Didn’t the fact that Expresso kill, eliminate cop-like abilities make you realize it’s very likely possible, if not actually probable?

I'd buy it, I was made Ascetic last night.

Someone giving out modifiers sounds a lot like Profiis inventor claim in LNT.

Either A50 assigns desperate modifier to visitors or I was blocked too.

[Venus and Mars]

No one should CC Joan and we aren't lynching her.

Scum likely have renegade and enchantress. Motivator likely scum too as they haven't outed the renegade and that's scum. (Supposing RCE is town and not faking his result).

So that leaves us with Dave, Creature, Haggle, RCE, myself, A50, Venus and Mars, Aaron Frost, Drew, Chemist, Joan, and probably chkflip but his posting makes me doubt him.

That leaves Amrun, Chara, Bambi Jay, The Fonz, Nips and Clemency.

All those slots won't vote Nips... just saying. That's damn near the size of a scumteam for a large.

Has Boon answered yet of how many variant roles max can be at play, because how would that affect your enchantress theory?

[Venus and Mars]

Fml I know whoever replaces Clem has a legit chance of outting my role.

Now I'm sad.

Is there a reason why you're hiding it? Cops have been disabled, Joan's likely the enchantress target, and we have a legion of conftown.

@Boon, what are the maximum number of variants possible?

[Venus and Mars]

I thought Clemency was vanillized?

He was but that doesn't mean he didnt get his result now does it?

Please don't make us have that discussion again.

UNVOTE:

[Venus and Mars]

Momma says, "stupid is as stupid does."

???

[Venus and Mars]

Weird flex but okay.

Nancy please explain your logic now.

I was doubting my Nips vote. I need to know if Titus’ solve hangs on enchantress being in the setup or not.

[Venus and Mars]

1 Boon unique role for free and 2 Variant roles, Nancy.

So 3 max then?

[Venus and Mars]

It isn't a solve if it's half baked and reliant on a single boogeyman role with no credible outcome in sight, so please don't apply words to things that are egregiously untrue.

If 3 variants are possible then how isn’t this reasoning sound? Why are you 100% sure rolestopper > enchantress?

[Venus and Mars]

Why are you 100% sure enchantress > rolestopper?

I’m obviously not but it’s definitely not unlikely.

[Venus and Mars]

The 3 variant rule =/= Titus solved the game with a single lynch, especially since she absolutely refuses to elaborate on how a Nip

slip

flip nets any information beyond "ope guess A50 *DID* clear Nips ohhh gosh gee golly jeepers better continue this VCA thing that definitely didn't fucking work yesterday yep that's win." No. It's not a solve. Don't call it a solve. It's a theory at best and not a very good one if there are actual viable conclusions to be drawn elsewhere.

I think it’s a lot more viable than you’re considering. I don’t think either one of you should be 100% sure on this.

[Venus and Mars]

His ISO provides absolutely nothing other than him voting Romeo twice in the day

I think Jet was an infoless kill

VOTE: Nips

[Venus and Mars]

I think Jet was an infoless kill

So basically Random?

Guess scum realized he had no real reads at all so nothing town could read on

Well they unfortunately hit the motherload with that if it wasn’t Nips.

Why is Amrun your strongest sr?

UNVOTE:

Maybe, unvote this for now, until you explain this.

[Venus and Mars]

I feel like your just quoting things randomly along with a vote, Nancy.

Nope, I don’t know why you think that?

[Venus and Mars]

Not sure if Nancy means the player or the literal

Chenn was Romeo the player and Jet was Romeo the flavour.

[Venus and Mars]

Not sure if Nancy means the player or the literal

Chenn was Romeo the player and Jet was Romeo the flavour.

I mean the Nips vote

He’s the only one who has ever played Mafia with Jet but I hadn’t really considered your no info argument, so that’s also possible.

[Venus and Mars]

I feel like your just quoting things randomly along with a vote, Nancy.

Nope, I don’t know why you think that?

Guess I have to read the quotes with a broad understanding of the game then, because a casual glance makes it confusing if I didnt just remember your past thoughts.

Putting your thoughts in the same post as the vote helps with clarity though.

Well, I guess I could have explained it better but definitely not random.

[Venus and Mars]

Cool story, bro. Super passionate.

Still wrong.

Is there some reason you’re that sure and not saying? because if so, you really can’t expect the rest of us to get onboard with that.

[Venus and Mars]

Bring the heat again and I swear I'll make Clem's replacement tell us your role.

You can’t thanks to jd.

[Venus and Mars]

Wow, you failed to notice that Clem already said that he rolecopped Bambi Jay before the role got nerfed.

Did he ever mention what his read on her was? All I remember him saying was that role cops were also affected. There should be some role in here that makes millers make sense though.

[Venus and Mars]

Why the super deep involvement in discrediting the most likely theory? And defending someone who has done nothing useful?
I question things as town and expect it from others to an extent but not to this absurd extreme.

That’s why I’m wondering if he has some knowledge that he’s basing that opinion on.

[Venus and Mars]

Why are you 100% sure enchantress > rolestopper?

Because it's a BooneyToonz game and it's a role likely to appear in BT games.

Stop being so dense.

And it's my theory, not Titus's. Titus was the leap of faith VCA thing.

I've probably played in close to half the BT games, and had been researching how to mod one. I know what I'm talking about regarding role choices in these games.
Could it be wrong? Of course, I have no inside info. But I would definitely bet this hand in Hold 'Em.

Why the super deep involvement in discrediting the most likely theory? And defending someone who has done nothing useful?
I question things as town and expect it from others to an extent but not to this absurd extreme.

The only way I believe there's an enchantress over a rolestopper is if I assume one of the pro-theorists is on the mafia team with one and latched onto or created that theory for future townpoints. Period. Otherwise, your "Occam's Razor" theory isn't any more credible than mine. Sorry not sorry that I'm not just sheeping everybody else here.

Welcome to mafia with chkflip. Enjoy your stay.

Yeah okay.

[Venus and Mars]

I'll also point out that,

under my theory

, you're fucking lynching TOWN. And on planet chk your boy allows that to happen 0% of the time. Crazy, right?

That’s the problem, you have never played in a Boon game and you’re closing your mind to that. Dave isn’t wrong. Iow, it’s POSSIBLE.

[Venus and Mars]

Neither is any more possible or impossible than the other.

Just because you have more people sheeping you, with one that has now anointed themselves as Boon Historian in Chief (which is nothing short of fucking laughable), doesn't mean your theory is any more valid than mine.

My interpretation of what Boon said is that the (role) abilities are what gets disabled.
Modifiers are not affected and desperate is a modifier.

Yes, I would definitely trust anyone’s understanding who has actual experience in Boon games over someone who hasn’t any. That’s why when you hire someone, you prefer someone with actual experience. Dave has, I do, you don’t.

[Venus and Mars]

Mars, if you don't have

literally anything

to say, don't waste my time with quotes from a page ago with a sassy two-word attempt to shade me further.

How am I doing that? I just think you’re dead wrong and you were out of line with Dave. He isn’t talking out of his ass and you shouldn’t dismiss him like that.

[Venus and Mars]

I can't help you if you don't understand how what you're doing is bad.

I will say that I do get a little visceral and acidic when impassioned. I cut my teeth in this game when people weren't as koombaya my lord, but I'm not too proud to say that I don't mean anything more than I don't think this theory has any more backing than mine regardless of experience. Setup speculation is a very small tool in the big grand scheme of things and shouldn't be looked at as the say all be all.

There are also quite a few publicly recorded "normal" setups in Boon's archive of posts if that's the way you want to go. I'm more than willing to look at them and speak objectively toward that.

If I offended you, dave, I apologize.

I think that, honestly, we should keep the setup spec to a minimum right now as we're rearing toward the end of this phase and what has already transpired has made more than one person in this game vocalize how it made them tune out.

Bambi, 50, Haggle, Drew, Creature: those aren't viable wagons today. You're more than welcome to make a case and we can go from there but I really don't think we're doing anything but lynching either Drew or Nips.

Chemist, VnM: place your vote, please.

Fonz: I hope you're closing in on being caught up and can participate with us more frequently soon.

When did Creature become a viable wagon and didn’t Dave clear Haggle?

[Venus and Mars]

No one should CC Joan and we aren't lynching her.

Scum likely have renegade and enchantress. Motivator likely scum too as they haven't outed the renegade and that's scum. (Supposing RCE is town and not faking his result).

So that leaves us with Dave, Creature, Haggle, RCE, myself, A50, Venus and Mars, Aaron Frost, Drew, Chemist, Joan, and probably chkflip but his posting makes me doubt him.

That leaves Amrun, Chara, Bambi Jay, The Fonz, Nips and Clemency.

All those slots won't vote Nips... just saying. That's damn near the size of a scumteam for a large.

Once again, I have good reason to think renegade doesn’t exist, or at least wasn’t motivated.

Motivated?

[Venus and Mars]

Wow, you failed to notice that Clem already said that he rolecopped Bambi Jay before the role got nerfed.

Did he ever mention what his read on her was? All I remember him saying was that role cops were also affected. There should be some role in here that makes millers make sense though.

He said originally that her role was more likely town. Then later he said he had to look up what the role did. So take that how you will.

BP

That fits my read on her.

[Venus and Mars]

I can't help you if you don't understand how what you're doing is bad.

I will say that I do get a little visceral and acidic when impassioned. I cut my teeth in this game when people weren't as koombaya my lord, but I'm not too proud to say that I don't mean anything more than I don't think this theory has any more backing than mine regardless of experience. Setup speculation is a very small tool in the big grand scheme of things and shouldn't be looked at as the say all be all.

There are also quite a few publicly recorded "normal" setups in Boon's archive of posts if that's the way you want to go. I'm more than willing to look at them and speak objectively toward that.

If I offended you, dave, I apologize.

I think that, honestly, we should keep the setup spec to a minimum right now as we're rearing toward the end of this phase and what has already transpired has made more than one person in this game vocalize how it made them tune out.

Bambi, 50, Haggle, Drew, Creature: those aren't viable wagons today. You're more than welcome to make a case and we can go from there but I really don't think we're doing anything but lynching either Drew or Nips.

Chemist, VnM: place your vote, please.

Fonz: I hope you're closing in on being caught up and can participate with us more frequently soon.

When did Creature become a viable wagon and didn’t Dave clear Haggle?

I think you misunderstood him. He was telling our slot, Bambi, Creature, Drew, and 50 to get on wagons that were viable. All of us are voting low wagons at the moment.

BP

Yeah, that makes way more sense.

[Venus and Mars]

Joan doesn't exist.

I do now.

Beetlejuice?

[Venus and Mars]

Not sure if Nancy means the player or the literal

Chenn was Romeo the player and Jet was Romeo the flavour.

I mean the Nips vote

He’s the only one who has ever played Mafia with Jet but I hadn’t really considered your no info argument, so that’s also possible.

if that’s the case so did loserdude but im pretty sure he replaced out before we went into night phase. the only reason I could see it relating to someone knowing him would be that before loser left he told his team to kill jet for him. cos if I was scum I wouldn’t of made that kill until later later. especially in my first game on site with him id at least want a little bit of time with him to see how he plays online

He was so uninvested though. That’s Creature predecessor, right? I tr that slot.

[Venus and Mars]

He has never acted like this much of a

douche

to me ever

One more insult from you and U'm going to make you regret your mom ever met your dad in the first place, let alone give birth to you. Knock it off already.

Yeah, I’ll be sure to send them that message - 6 feet under. You’re really on a roll now, keep going.

[Venus and Mars]

He has never acted like this much of a

douche

to me ever

One more insult from you and U'm going to make you regret your mom ever met your dad in the first place, let alone give birth to you. Knock it off already.

Yeah, I’ll be sure to send them that message - 6 feet under. You’re really on a roll now, keep going.

Another comment about my dead parents and I’ll be reporting you.

[Venus and Mars]

Woah woah woah, what the fuck is happening.

Did Shiro actually show up? The heck is that comment?

No, still Nancy. Apparently A50 isn’t satisfied with doing whatever he can think of to try to make me feel like crap, he also needs to slander dead people who aren’t even here to defend themselves.

[Venus and Mars]

Woah woah woah, what the fuck is happening.

Did Shiro actually show up? The heck is that comment?

No, still Nancy. Apparently A50 isn’t satisfied with doing whatever he can think of to try to make me feel like crap, he also needs to slander dead people who aren’t even here to defend themselves.

That’s how it read to me anyway or why else even bring that up?

[Venus and Mars]

That last quote is still from you though? Um.... I'm shutting up for now.

My parents are dead and I’m appalled that anyone would use someone’s dead parents to hurt them with. Isn’t the fact that they’re dead, enough for you? @A50?

Spoiler:

There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about them and miss them terribly, especially my dad, who was the most amazing father anyone could ever ask for. I watched both of them die horrible deaths in the hospital after suffering from devastating illnesses, so I’m legit disgusted by that.

[Venus and Mars]

Almost50, even if Nancy's parents were alive, threatening someone like that isn't cool.

Is what he said against site rules? I know for a fact, making threats is against the rules.

[Venus and Mars]

That last quote is still from you though? Um.... I'm shutting up for now.

My parents are dead and I’m appalled that anyone would use someone’s dead parents to hurt them with. Isn’t the fact that they’re dead, enough for you? @A50?

Spoiler:

There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about them and miss them terribly, especially my dad, who was the most amazing father anyone could ever ask for. I watched both of them die horrible deaths in the hospital after suffering from devastating illnesses, so I’m legit disgusted by that.

/hug

<3

Thanks.

[Venus and Mars]

Almost50, even if Nancy's parents were alive, threatening someone like that isn't cool.

Is what he said against site rules? I know for a fact, making threats is against the rules.

Spoiler:

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes

threats

, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc.

[Venus and Mars]

Almost50, even if Nancy's parents were alive, threatening someone like that isn't cool.

Is what he said against site rules? I know for a fact, making threats is against the rules.

Spoiler:

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes

threats

, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc.

I will only report it if he doesn’t back tf off of me though.

[Venus and Mars]

That last quote is still from you though? Um.... I'm shutting up for now.

My parents are dead and I’m appalled that anyone would use someone’s dead parents to hurt them with. Isn’t the fact that they’re dead, enough for you? @A50?

Spoiler:

There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about them and miss them terribly, especially my dad, who was the most amazing father anyone could ever ask for. I watched both of them die horrible deaths in the hospital after suffering from devastating illnesses, so I’m legit disgusted by that.

<3

[Venus and Mars]

He has never acted like this much of a

douche

to me ever

One more insult from you and U'm going to make you regret your mom ever met your dad in the first place, let alone give birth to you. Knock it off already.

Yeah, I’ll be sure to send them that message - 6 feet under. You’re really on a roll now, keep going.

Okay I thought you were offended by the 6 feet under comment which is why I thought you were yelling at Shiro? Man sometimes not knowing context fucks everything up.

The "make you wish you were never born" thing is a common insult/comeback so I guess I didn't see anything wrong from that.

Ya, but anytime someone says 'make you regret' outside of the context of the game, is basically a threat.

+1

My parents are the ones who are “6 feet under” @Bambi, I wasn’t making threats beyond reporting A50, if he didn’t back off.

[Venus and Mars]

He has never acted like this much of a

douche

to me ever

One more insult from you and U'm going to make you regret your mom ever met your dad in the first place, let alone give birth to you. Knock it off already.

Yeah, I’ll be sure to send

THEM

that message - 6 feet under. You’re really on a roll now, keep going.

Okay I thought you were offended by the 6 feet under comment which is why I thought you were yelling at Shiro? Man sometimes not knowing context fucks everything up.

The "make you wish you were never born" thing is a common insult/comeback so I guess I didn't see anything wrong from that.

Ya, but anytime someone says 'make you regret' outside of the context of the game, is basically a threat.

+1

My parents are the ones who are “6 feet under” @Bambi, I wasn’t making threats beyond reporting A50, if he didn’t back off.

[Venus and Mars]

@Bambi, I would never yell at someone as sweet as Shiro. Shiro’s bae. <3

[Venus and Mars]

I don’t think “it’s a game” works when the argument is about something outside of the game

But I do agree with you guys taking a little to calm down

I don’t even know how it got started. All I did was tell A50 and chk to get a room and all hell broke loose.

[Venus and Mars]

I don’t think “it’s a game” works when the argument is about something outside of the game

But I do agree with you guys taking a little to calm down

No good reason ever to bring up people who have jack to do with anything - especially when those people happen to be deceased. I would never ever mention anyone’s family, SO’s, work situation. etc. because it has no bearing on anything happening in a game.

[Venus and Mars]

What’s the point of someone blocking me if they’re just gonna message from another account? Doesn’t make one bit of sense, might as well not have me blocked, am I right?

Spoiler:

Are we supposed to have any clue about what you’re talking about? If not, than why bring it up?

[Venus and Mars]

Almost50, even if Nancy's parents were alive, threatening someone like that isn't cool.

No disrespect, but would you care to stay out of this, if you please? You're fine being told to fuck off, so that's your prerogative. You're ok being called stupid and insane, and -again- that's your choice. I am NOT fine dealing with all that shit, and I'm not going to shut up about it.

I never did any of those things and you’re damned lucky I didn’t report you for threatening me.

[Venus and Mars]

Almost50, even if Nancy's parents were alive, threatening someone like that isn't cool.

No disrespect, but would you care to stay out of this, if you please? You're fine being told to fuck off, so that's your prerogative. You're ok being called stupid and insane, and -again- that's your choice. I am NOT fine dealing with all that shit, and I'm not going to shut up about it.

I never did any of those things and you’re damned lucky I didn’t report you for threatening me.

Yet.

[Venus and Mars]

Saying Joan wagon is seriously fucking dumb is my opinion about that WAGON. I know when I’ve been out of line and prior to your attacking me here, I’m sure I haven’t remotely done anything even close to that in this game, so don’t you dare misrep me like that.

If anyone has been doing that, it was YOU to me, so excuse me for not just rolling over and due and continuing to allow it.