Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[AGar]

VOTE: xRECKONERx

hue

[AGar]

The real world scum are scientologists,

Easy now, some of us live a liiiiiittle to close to the HQ in Clearwater. I don't wanna get disappeared.

[AGar]

So this is gonna be one of those games I can't keep up with via tablet because of the spam posting. Great.

I know jigsaw game we lynched scum day 1 and it went downhill from there, but how does a no lynch help give any info?

Don't like this.

The idea is scum feel a need to do something, and being cute is something to do, like a mission. CLAP's version seemed less goal-oriented.

Why is the "being cute is something to do" relevant when your four in the scum section have not had anything to do with the "being cute" thing? (ABR, Myself, Auro, kmd) Closest is KMD being uncomfortable with the "being cute" thing from other players.

Dis reel bad. So is this.

I agree with this.

Re: 214 & 215 - "Call and response"? Is that what we call answering questions now?

MT's empty calories are useless and just shitting up the thread with nonsense. Not thrilled with farside or Crayons either. But MT is the worst right now.

VOTE: Morning Tweet

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Green Crayons

I can rock with this fer sure.

[AGar]

AGar no

Reck misspelled iamausername. You sheeped the wrong vote. I understand, these mistakes can happen to anyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbBDrceCy8#t=2m11s

[AGar]

AGar's "Call and response"? Is that what we call answering questions now? shade, that conflates Starbuck's call for "empty calories" discussions (AGar's words) and several responses with actual, scum-hunting questions, is disappointingly bland.

I might not agree with the premise of the questions, but I at least can get behind a player trying to meaningfully engage with players they’re unfamiliar with as opposed to willfully ignoring progression of the game to continue on fruitless discussion.

I specifically called your shit out because it was a weak attempt to manufacture a read on someone as opposed to having any real grounding in reality.

I don't like the green crayon votes so I'll jump on the counter wagon.

Unvote, Vote iamausername

why dont you like the GC votes

They feel like a wagon for the sake of a wagon. Almost every vote felt random. Hoopla had four votes which made her the lead wagon then all of the sudden starts selling green crayons as THE wagon that everyone needs to be on and says there's town points in it for everyone who jumps on then it just becomes a thing. Puppy jumps on. You jump on. Agar jumps on and now there's four votes and I have no idea why. Every one of those votes rubbed me the wrong way. While I seriously doubt that's a wagon of four scum, I'd be absolutely shocked if it wasn't at least 1-2, especially involving hoopla who I'd otherwise been townreading. Even llamarble didn't add anything when he voted. So five votes and zero stated reasons.

Are you actually reading the thread or are you getting sparknotes somewhere?

IAUN has dos posts

If we’re lynching based on post count, then you can go ahead and off me first.

AGAR please let me know what you think of Morning Tweet in 20 words or less thanks

Pointless posting intent on clogging the thread and lagging the game behind. Lots of words, no substance.

[AGar]

I think it's too easy to go after the quiet ones. I feel like it's an excuse for her not to interact with anyone else. It sucks that they're lurking or maybe with this game starting at 9 pm on a Sunday (for me) that they might be working and such. It's only Tuesday. That's what I think about anyways.

there is nothing about blair's push on iiau that i took as anything but "it's only tuesday". like, it didn't look like a push to lynch someone that was definitively declared as "IIAU is scum, this is the lynch, this is not only a temporary RVS wagon"

I think I had a stroke trying to read this, try again?

[AGar]

I think it's too easy to go after the quiet ones. I feel like it's an excuse for her not to interact with anyone else. It sucks that they're lurking or maybe with this game starting at 9 pm on a Sunday (for me) that they might be working and such. It's only Tuesday. That's what I think about anyways.

there is nothing about blair's push on iiau that i took as anything but "it's only tuesday". like, it didn't look like a push to lynch someone that was definitively declared as "IIAU is scum, this is the lynch, this is not only a temporary RVS wagon"

I think I had a stroke trying to read this, try again?

starbuck says blair's strong push on IAAU is suspicious, because it's so early ("it's only tuesday"), but blair's push itself seems like a push that only comes in the early game, an "it's only tuesday" push, not a serious case that blair is taking all the way to lynch

Much appreciated.

[AGar]

Honestly, in the context of all the other things I've said about this (like when I suggested Porkens suspicious for saying that!), how could this possibly be a good-faith reading on your part?

Because directly after a post from Starbuck asking to explain the IAAUN wagon, you dropped the Porkens quote devoid of any context. How Starbuck read it is how I read it, as well. It really wasn't hard to get to that point. Not sure how this is something you can't fathom.

Do you want to talk about any of my other reads I've given reasons for?

What's with you consistently trying to get people to get you to elaborate on your reads? Why aren't you just, y'know, putting them out there if you want to discuss them so much? Why the song and dance with it? You've done this more than once - trying to draw attention to the fact that you want to answer questions and you want people to know it.

425 conveniently leaves out 337 between 336 and 338. Wonder why. Bad wagon is bad.

Would prefer to stay withing {Green Crayons, Auro} right now. Not sure I follow the VPB wagon at all. Getting town pings from VPB thus far.

[AGar]

Starbuck is always scummy in my experience. I think you guys are getting a false positive.

SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MY TELL. THANK GOD.

bad look fam

Das all you got from your last post to here?

[AGar]

Because directly after a post from Starbuck asking to explain the IAAUN wagon, you dropped the Porkens quote devoid of any context. How Starbuck read it is how I read it, as well. It really wasn't hard to get to that point. Not sure how this is something you can't fathom.

If you decided to push a vote based on it, and then the person you were voting for informed you that they definitely were not pushing a policy lynch, wouldn't you reread their posts instead of doubling down on the misinterpretation for no reason?

I'm not Starbuck, so I can't speak for her. I simply showed the work on how we got to that point because you seemed absolutely dumbfounded that someone read it that way, but she wasn't the only one.

Also, from what I see chronologically:

• 337 Starbuck asks for someone to expand on the IAAUN wagon.
  
• 338 Your quote of Porkens which caused lots of problems
  
• 376 Starbuck votes you for "policy push"
  
• 389 You say it's not a policy push. You do not clarify it, you just say it isn't policy. Fine, but does nothing to clear up the issue at hand (338).
  
• 393 Starbuck specifically highlights 338.
  
• 398 You explain that you were highlighting Porkens's post as an attack on the IAAUN wagon (finally!) but immediately jump to bad faith reading.

I can follow the thought process to doubling down there. I think your obstinate insistence that there was no way you could be honestly misinterpreted from 398 and forward, even though I had already basically shown my hand at misreading your post as well in 391 is probtown. I also think Starbuck holding firm and digging in after the fact is town. Sue me.

I'd much rather see a real push on GC who's become suddenly a lot less engaging and confrontational now that a few loud voices have pushed in other directions.

[AGar]

I was basically working on the same post Agar just made, so I'll just say his version is very good and leave it at that.
Well, with addendum that after SB realized 338 wasn't an explanation of the wagon, she noted other posts in Blair's ISO that she disliked (the wagon-recruitment ones) as a reason for going with a Blair vote, which is fine.
I'm assuming she read the ISO to clarify her understanding and came across those posts at that time.

Sure, I would normally ISO someone before voting them to begin with, but I don't think that's a requirement - reacting to a vote and an explanation post for it is enough.

I'll try to stop sniping you from here on out

[AGar]

There you go. And no, that type of observation about VP Baltar is not inferable from current play.

You will not like any vote of mine - either it will be a difficult read and thus comfortable, or an easy read who you find towny, or an "easy read that's scummy" (to you) that's, again, comfortable for me.

See: you're fitting my play to a scum agenda, without actually solving my play. You're adding the "what would I do" lens to every action of mine.

Do. Not. Like.

[AGar]

Explain.

If I could've put it into more words, I fucking would've. I can't.

[AGar]

Can someone give me a breakdown of why we're seeing a VPB wagon take off with so little resistance? Because I'm not seeing anything to sway in a particular direction.

[AGar]

Can someone give me a breakdown of why we're seeing a VPB wagon take off with so little resistance? Because I'm not seeing anything to sway in a particular direction.

VP hasn't done anything particularly town and is the main alternative to Auro at the moment. Lots of players are looking reasonably town by now, so it's not an awful wagon.

Is there something that seems insincere about it?

There were like 6 posts on it. Seems very try-hard for a mediocre joke.

We were still in RVS, but I can't imagine being THAT committed to that bit.

"I can't imagine you would think / behave this way" is certainly a way scum go after people.

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

And super-respecting other players (form of buddying) makes sense from scum too.

huh? explain.

I gut-townread Green Crayons from his posts.

You're gonna have to do better than that.

But I like this and I think his incredulity about my behavior are fine. I think Auro is a better bet than VPB.

Fair. I'll re-read it and simmer, probably get back tomorrow. Definitely was up until like 3 AM last night and I'm feeling the effects.

Can someone give me a breakdown of why we're seeing a VPB wagon take off with so little resistance? Because I'm not seeing anything to sway in a particular direction.

Regarding VP, I think his post history is really wallflower-y. A little commenting, a little asking directionless questions, and a whole lot of not really taking a stance on anything. I like this slot for scum.

Welp, definitely should have seen that and had it register.

[AGar]

Some of the votes on VP come from players I haven't seen say much in regards to this game and are sheeping along (like Iam and UT). I'm staying the hell away from it.
I will say within regards to UT if he continues the lurking I would vote for him. He only gets a free pass for day 1.

Hasn't it been like 12 hours since you basically echoed UT's sentiments about the gamestate?

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Auro

Just not buying the VPB wagon. More to say at 7 when I’m not confined to a tablet, and a lovely fuck all y’all for fucking 5+ pages exploding overnight.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Auro

Just not buying the VPB wagon. More to say at 7 when I’m not confined to a tablet, and a lovely fuck all y’all for fucking 5+ pages exploding overnight.

Why not? I think it's pretty good.
VOTE: VP Baltar

I don't like that the wagon is rooted in ABR's desire to look like he's the one in charge of the town and the rah-rah bullshit that follows and IAAUN's straight desire to counter the Auro wagon. Generally the composition of it just grosses me out. The wagon could be put on any of half of the players in this game and nobody would need to "change" their reasoning for their vote.

---

Lol @ 617, I haven't had a good game of mafia under my belt since Gundam, and even then I fucked up.

672 was a bit of a letdown, given all that's transpired in the past 48 hours not related to Starbuck.

Interested in follow up to 693.

Post 707, in video form

779, 780, 781, 782. *Sigh* this could have all been accomplished with one post.

783 - here, I made it easier for you.

Yeah I'm just confident in the Auro vote right now. Lots of posts to basically tell us he doesn't have any committed scumreads, and his townreads were mostly lacking in the kind of backing that would staple him to them - he made a giant post with a roadmap out to lynch pretty much anyone.

[AGar]

I don't like that the wagon is rooted in ABR's desire to look like he's the one in charge of the town and the rah-rah bullshit that follows and IAAUN's straight desire to counter the Auro wagon.

The 2 lynches I helped engineer are Auro and VP Baltar, sir. Either way this goes, I am the driving force in this game.

Do you have a mute button?

Does your pointless ego ever run out of battery?

[AGar]

So, uh, Auro, where are those magic fucking scumreads that were promised not so long ago?

[AGar]

If 867 was supposed to be some grand reveal, I'm fucking underwhelmed.

Porkens's response in 877 is... off.

@Llama

Your accidental quote in 914 - were you looking at that post from Porkens for a particular reason?

I can't fucking believe I'm about to do this but..

Auro looks like he's putting on a show.

I could not fucking agree more with this.

What the FUCK is this?

[AGar]

You lied to auro that you scumread VPB? So all that VPB wagon was a lie?

This seems particularly obtuse.

[AGar]

still here, still prefer VPB but it's not like i'm super sold on Auro as town (or on VPB as scum for that matter) and i mostly just want this day to be over with.

my reads look like this now.

confident townreads:
1) AGar
6) farside22
8) Hoopla
13) Porkens
14) Starbuck

less confident townreads:
2) Albert B. Rampage
3) Auro
7) Green Crayons
10) Kmd4390
11) Llamarble
12) Morning Tweet
15) Untrod Tripod
17) xRECKONERx

null reads:
4) Blair
5) CantLynchAPuppy
16) VP Baltar

Are the bunches ordered in any particular manner or just "here's a clump by # from the OP"?

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

That's the same thing Auro said. You won't find me lining up lynches in my iso so your accusations are baseless. I think Auro flips scum and this is a last-ditch attempt to save him.

You are calling me scum?
Not lining up lunches? You already bragged about building wagons from scratch and you pumped up both of these, lining up lynched is exclusively what you are doing.

Look, I really hate ABR's playstyle (and forgot this before I eagerly pre-/ined for this game) but this is just not even close to factual.

Pork has been consistently obvtown

On what basis - consistently wrong/uninformed setup spec and mod WIFOM?

[AGar]

I think meta can be useful in certain cases. Here, I think you're using it as a distraction to the current game and spending way more time focusing on meta this and meta that, than what's actually happening in our game state. I

Starbuck, you're not arguing the validity of what I'm doing, but that I'm overusing it. Your evaluation is incorrect; this is the only case where I'm involving "meta". If I just rephrase that to "farside is being disingenuous and I can feel it" how would you feel about it?
Do you agree that scum players can act pro-town - yes/no?
If yes, then it might be impossible to nail them down on a concrete case - yes/no?

"It's not scummy that my case is bad because scum can act liek town!"

[AGar]

you're playing with veterans who share a

CULT META

while you shitpost and theorycraft, what did you think was going to happen?

FTFY

Vi I swear to Christ if there's a cult twist I'm going to fucking ban you

something something YOU APPROVED THIS SHIT something something.

[AGar]

This you or you memeing other people's reads?

[AGar]

This you or you memeing other people's reads?

That's me memeing my own reads. I really hope they are also other people's reads, though.

is the ABR read rooted solely in the result or something in the process? I haven't seen much to sway me in the scummy dept.

[AGar]

Gammrar!

I definitely intended to re-read this during the night phase to see what resistance there was/wasn't to Auro, but that sure didn't happen. I'll do it in the morning.

[AGar]

@CLAP

, re: 1277 - Why?

1279 is the kinda stuff I like to see.

I can get behind that MT vote, too. I just think her calling Porkens obvtown along with his push onto an ABR counterwagon is suspect AF.

This is inconsistent with later posting? If you've got this 50/50 that you felt necessary to bring today (I'm fine with D2 vs. D1), why are you prodding outside of it? 1-for-1 is always a transaction that benefits town, so it feels like you should be dead-set on Porkens or Farside. Also, 1306 is an awkward presentation of the information? Idk, it's all just weird to me. I think there's no way this play comes from scum but I also just, y'know, have questions.

Do you think I would lynch my tracker?

Scum tracker ain't all that powerful? It's a strictly worse rolecop or vanilla cop within the context.

Agree with 1312. Disagree with 1330.

Porkens' posting today just makes me more comfortable with farside.

and Blair very much comes off as scum expecting the day to drift inexorably to a VP Baltar lynch and panicking when ABR pulled the rug out from under her.

My re-read gave me the same feeling.

Yeah this is a town post.

lol @ the last line of 1445

---

Re-read really set off pings for farside anyway. 89's second half felt very song-and-dance consternation about the no-lynch and felt like an awkward attempt to look like she was engaging/pushing Auro, and a lot of interactions throughout the day between her and Auro felt like a weird dance between trying to decide whether to distance, bus, or buddy - like they couldn't decide how to run with it. 99's question about Auro playing up being new, 141 & Auro's "Farside please engage with me again," the banter in 160, 162, 164, and 167. The vote in 370 feels like she's finally figured out she wants to try and bus Auro, and Auro actually fights back a bit. Auro only pushed back on a few players trying to lynch him, didn't really engage entirely with the wagon and it felt selective as fuck. 596 is the kind of meek reasoning you give to stay on the bus wagon without pushing it forward, but 605 is admitting it doesn't have traction and now Auro is closer to null than scum, even though so so many words were spilled back and forth with Auro and softly accusing him of not playing good. farside's accusations on VPB are much more... committed. They're weak, but she's much more enthused about trying to get him lynched than she ever was on Auro. She puts a few weak agreements with less-than-town reads on Auro from llama and Blair in the 790s, but nothing concrete and doesn't budge off of the VPB wagon (which at this point felt like it was inevitably going to get at least to a claim, if not a lynch, fmpov). Auro keeps the weak scumread on Farside up when pressed, but again - never really commits to this. 906, farside realizes that Auro wagon might be back on so why not try and get that sweet sweet towncred from a bus? They've both said they suspect each other, so it's gravy! And nary a word is said of Auro again, nor a post for the rest of the day. Coast on the wagon, don't try and say anything that could cause a slip, and cash in, amirite?

VOTE: farside

[AGar]

What is P?

MS rule today was to remove the terminology of lynch from the verbiage in all games. Would assume Vi is trying to move away from "L-X" since that invokes the same verbiage.

[AGar]

It is absolutely blowing my mind that you all are passing on the people on yesterday's LITERAL LAST DITCH COUNTERWAGON TO SCUM to focus on farside who did... I don't know... vaguely something???

what in the fuck is happening right now

here ya go!

[AGar]

I'd say go after Agar too with trying to tie 2 players together with a lot of wifom post.

If you think looking into associations with flipped scum is WIFOM, why did you ask what information voting for no elimination would generate yesterday? If you think trying to read into interactions between two players is WIFOM, how do you propose we look for scum?

[AGar]

An addendum, if we flip the scum today, the investigative role should just do whatever they want anyways because we eliminated the scum.

Does your revelation specify that *only* one of them is scum? Apologies if I missed it but don’t remember seeing more than just 1 of them is for sure scum.

[AGar]

Also, re:1494, questions were mostly just what I thought vomited in the quoted post, I was more just moderately confused but nothing too serious atm.

[AGar]

CLAP or Gamma

So I'm working out a couple ISOs, but Auro's reaction to Llamarble pushing on him was similar to Farside pushing on him (and doesn't line up with other pushes on him that I've observed so far). Auro had a habit of choosing specific people to engage with fiercely that were voting him, while otherwise not really pushing against others (myself being the latter category).

[AGar]

I see Agars post on gamma's slot, but is that it?

I got hella trashed last night on a zoom hangout, and was hella trashed on said hangout when I posted that. I'll slap a bit more meat on that bone before the end of the day. In the meantime, I still can't spell slap without fucking it up first. Whoof.

I like what UT's serving in 1546. Dope.

Sure

don't

like 1557

This is inconsistent with later posting? If you've got this 50/50 that you felt necessary to bring today (I'm fine with D2 vs. D1), why are you prodding outside of it? 1-for-1 is always a transaction that benefits town, so it feels like you should be dead-set on Porkens or Farside.

It probably is. However, I was already questioning MT's defense of both Auro and Porkens during Day 1. Like she literally took it upon herself to try and explain away Auro. Given that I scum read Porkens, the PoE doesn't look that great there. I think that if Porkens flips red, on top of Auro, that there's a high chance that MT might, as well.

AGar, given that what I brought forth is now true, why was it harmful of me to skill scumhunt or, at the very least, say where my suspicion lied outside of it yesterday?

I wasn't sure what was going to happen on the overnight, so I felt it pertinent to put down where I thought the PoE might be in case I was the NK choice.

It wasn't harmful. It was just odd the way the 50/50 came about. I was trying to wrap my head around it because it wasn't how I would have presented it - start the day off in one direction and then go ahead and say "Oh but wait, I have this 50/50 we can use," a bit later.

[AGar]

CLAP or Gamma

So I'm working out a couple ISOs, but Auro's reaction to Llamarble pushing on him was similar to Farside pushing on him (and doesn't line up with other pushes on him that I've observed so far). Auro had a habit of choosing specific people to engage with fiercely that were voting him, while otherwise not really pushing against others (myself being the latter category).

Meh, this was not what I thought it to be upon further digging around. He struck the tone with a handful of people (and more than I recalled initially) and in retrospect, doesn't seem great to lump Llama in there wrt how the town was generally reading him at the time. There are other small tics that bother me from llama and gamma independent of associative tells, but nothing I feel super great about right now.

---

1598 pings as "I'm doing something, I'm doing something!" while not actually doing anything.

@KMD

Do you plan on engaging with the

current

events at all or do you just plan on continuing to hang out in the past where you can give uncontroversial opinions on dated matters and don't have to react in real time? Because all I see right now is you doing the latter.

1612 screams "You can't fault me for not being good because

you're all so very good and better

," and that is a terrible line of reasoning.

1637 is :goodposting:

Dislike 1654, generally echo what Gamma's putting down in 1655.

I feel... uncomfortable with the ease that the MT wagon has just casually picked up? I know there were some vocalized scumreads on MT D1/D2, and I feel like MT's been skating by and not doing anything and I agree with the arguments in favor of yeeting MT, but didn't feel like it was *this* many. I'm townleaning ~1/2 the wagon though, so it's not like I'm sitting here with flashing bells saying "fuck this wagon is purely scum driven."

I don't like IAAUN's reads? Like I am very suspect of him saying I'm obvtown because, well, I don't think I've played in that manner to be read that way? Also the Blair vote is a weird move.

P-Edit: Misyeet is a great term.

[AGar]

I feel... uncomfortable with the ease that the MT wagon has just casually picked up? I know there were some vocalized scumreads on MT D1/D2, and I feel like MT's been skating by and not doing anything and I agree with the arguments in favor of yeeting MT, but didn't feel like it was *this* many. I'm townleaning ~1/2 the wagon though, so it's not like I'm sitting here with flashing bells saying "fuck this wagon is purely scum driven."

it feels this way because the wagon is not scum-driven, because scum don't need to drive wagons on town if town will do it for them.

I mean, assuming Hoopla's info is correct, there's only two scum left max. So at this point almost no wagon is going to be scum driven. It's the lack of resistance or burgeoning actual counterwagon that concerns me. We got to Y-1 on D3 with no real resistance for that and within 72 hours or so.

[AGar]

Bit of nostalgic quote striping because it's a bit easier rn.

I am aware it requires a big gambit - that's what makes it a spicy take.

Is your point that neither Starbuck nor Reck would engage in a big gambit?

Pragmatic question - what are the odds that you think Starbuck would make it to a LYLO situation if she is scum gambitting this hard? What's the benefit to Reck?

Feel free to ask me specific questions if you don't understand my current views or I missed a major event somewhere.

I just want to know when you're going to comment on literally anything happening in the present rather than harping on issues that you can pre-formulate an opinion on based on which way the wind in the thread was blowing since you have the benefit of hindsight.

Cantlynchapuppy also had a post that somewhat matched something farside said about investigate roles needing to be on Starbuck/Porkens/farside. It just feels like something a Cantlynchapuppy/farside team would want to happen if scum has some sort of element that screws with investigative roles and they either thought they could get a false innocent on farside or false guilty on Porkens or Starbuck. Like if someone flips framer or sometby, I'm gonna be convinced Cantlynchapuppy is scum.

This is a wild take.

there's no way scum is stupid enough to claim VT for a third time at L-1, especially after we hammered VT-claiming scum the first two times.

Hard disagree. Also wouldn't this be counter to your theory that we have an unorganized/inexperienced scumteam?

[AGar]

Hard disagree. Also wouldn't this be counter to your theory that we have an unorganized/inexperienced scumteam?

i think even the simplest of simpletons would wise up and fakeclaim something other than VT after witnessing your two previous buddies go down in that way.

my thoughts that we have a lackadaisical/unthinking scumteam is precisely because of auro's claim. tracker is a perfect town-looking claim there - it could easily buy you another day or two, and it's even potentially provable. i can't imagine a scumteam led by some old pro like llamarble/reck would endorse that VT claim. even if scum don't have daytalk, i imagine an experienced/thoughtful team would be discussing fakeclaims pregame - at least, i always do as scum.

FWIW, my overall read on Auro was that he was going to do what he wanted, teammates be damned. I think he claimed irrespective of what his scum buddies thought.

If farside wasn’t in a 1v1 she had no chance of getting out of, I’d agree that her claim pointed to an unorganized team. But given the context of D2, I don’t think any scumteam would have wasted effort on a fake to save a scum buddy who was destined for death anyway.

[AGar]

Yeahhhh.... no.

VOTE: kmd4390

This is scum.

[AGar]

ngl idg the kmd votes

explain

In 30+ posts, I find two original post-RVS thoughts from him (both in 1670), and both of them are pretty weak justifications for D3 scumreads that he sounds like he doesn't even believe. When he has been active, it feels like a disproportionate amount of time has been spent on what's already happened and cooled off so he can pluck the "right" opinions, and his limited focus on current happenings has been largely parroting already stated points. He's not really engaging *anything*.

[AGar]

is being disengaged a scumtell?

Is that all you took from my post?

[AGar]

i'm just asking a question

he's got weak reads, and i would assume that could be a factor of being disengaged
yes his catch ups are weak but to me it sounds like someone who is just...not engaged with the game

you're right he's not engaged and his posts are trash but i dont think that necessarily means scum?

Fair.

His "disengaged" just feels very intentional. It feels moderately scummy, like he's just trying to keep the low profile that he's had thus far. There's been little shit like him trying to shut down any spec on Starbuck that felt too deliberate and too informed, for lack of a better word. But other than that, he's had milquetoast opinions, low engagement, and the times that he's been present have felt like he's posting enough to say "I have opinions here they are, don't look too deeply though they're just rehashed," but not much more. He pretty much made no effort on engaging on either Farside or Auro's runups, though I admit I believe he might have just missed D2 since it was a speedwagon? But still, to have zero engagement with any of the flipped scum is, uh, odd.

[AGar]

Agar, why do you think my points on Iamausername, Cantlynchapuppy, or UT or weak or too old to even apply?

The only thing I said was that they were weak and that tonally your post felt that you didn't even believe in them. Your initial point in 1670 is regarding a weak bussing buddy theory that doesn't line up with your insistence that Starbuck is town - if Starbuck is town, then scum knew farside was going to get lynched D2 or D3 no matter what. In 2010 I would've spammed the thread with "cognitive dissonance" about this. Your CLAP justification hinges on the presence of an active role to fuck with an investigative's results - nothing about an independent reasoning. Your IAAUN justification based on 1490 is just bad. Absent context, sure it's a frustrated scumbuddy. With the literal post he's replying to quoted, you can see it's within discussion of farside's claim - LITERALLY to get farside lynched. Your UT read is uh... bunk. You give the most credence to this one (albeit handwaving about bussing position and talking about posturing to hammer on a speedy D2 is still fairly weak), but it's your alternate?

Agar, talk to me about Starbuck. Do you honestly believe scum after having a buddy lynched day 1 sets up a scenario that lynches farside to put Starbuck in a better spot? I personally don't see it. If farside and porkens had both been town, I'd understand Starbuck going down in style and taking out two widely town read slots. But with farside being scum I just don't see it. Do you disagree?

See, here you go again not actually reading and just pulling off the top what you want to find.

Here's what I *actually* said:

... like [kmd] trying to shut down any spec on Starbuck that felt too deliberate and too informed

I've questioned someone else's own speculation about Starbuck gambitting and acknowledged in the question it seems pretty thin. But the way you wanted to shut it down read like you wanted to authoritatively take some credit for "steering" the town off something you knew to be less fruitful.

[AGar]

The only thing I said was that they were weak and that tonally your post felt that you didn't even believe in them. Your initial point in 1670 is regarding a weak bussing buddy theory that doesn't line up with your insistence that Starbuck is town - if Starbuck is town, then scum knew farside was going to get lynched D2 or D3 no matter what. In 2010 I would've spammed the thread with "cognitive dissonance" about this. Your CLAP justification hinges on the presence of an active role to fuck with an investigative's results - nothing about an independent reasoning. Your IAAUN justification based on 1490 is just bad. Absent context, sure it's a frustrated scumbuddy. With the literal post he's replying to quoted, you can see it's within discussion of farside's claim - LITERALLY to get farside lynched. Your UT read is uh... bunk. You give the most credence to this one (albeit handwaving about bussing position and talking about posturing to hammer on a speedy D2 is still fairly weak), but it's your alternate?

That's how I see the game right now. If you feel that's weak, that's one thing. But no, saying that I find my own reasoning weak is just plain wrong. When we have two flipped scum it makes sense to use associatives to find a buddy. Both Cantlynchapuppy and iamausername made farside votes that make sense as bussing a buddy who was going down. Iamausername also had a bad VP vote while Auro was in trouble. I think they and UT are the best place to look as a result of those events and looking at wagons.

You're not using associatives, you're hinging your reads on certain things. There's a biiiiig ol' difference there. Again - there's an inherent clash in your IAAUN/CLAP theories based on bussing when, by your own insistence that Starbuck is town and there is 0 chance she was gambitting full stop, they wouldn't be seeking out bus points because

farside was being lynched no matter what

. Your bussing idea literally requires at least some level of speculation that Starbuck could be scum gambitting. Your idea about CLAP's comment regarding an investigative literally speaks to hinging on a role such as a framer being present. Also, why was IAAUN's VP vote bad when Auro was in trouble? Why IAAUN's specifically and not literally any of the other players on that wagon?

I've questioned someone else's own speculation about Starbuck gambitting and acknowledged in the question it seems pretty thin. But the way you wanted to shut it down read like you wanted to authoritatively take some credit for "steering" the town off something you knew to be less fruitful.

The speculation was dumb. We'd be idiots to eliminate Starbuck today and there was no reason to even discuss it.

There's plenty reason to discuss it if a player legitimately believes Starbuck was the type of player to take on a gambit like that. Something something something only a Sith something something something absolutes.

[AGar]

Since you're going to keep harping on it, I'll just come out with my logic here. If we voice suspicion on her now, scum might keep her around for LYLO and go for a WIFOM elimination where if we wait and see if she draws a NK and she keeps surviving anyway that would have been a pretty good sign she's scum. But by brining up the what ifs, we give scum more opportunities to use town-her in a way other than obvtown NK and we give scum-her a chance to explain why she's still alive.

Any scumbag worth their salt was keeping her alive as long as possible regardless of whether we spec'd a gambit or not. The fact that people already expressed doubt today - whether you try and shout them down to preserve some weird idea - only stands to reinforce that.

[AGar]

Why not IAAU? Hanging on to my earliest scum read is one of my few great joys in this game.

Because it's wrong?

[AGar]

Why not IAAU? Hanging on to my earliest scum read is one of my few great joys in this game.

Because it's wrong?

Like, morally? Or you're actually that confident in your townread?

D3, down two partners, no town power merc'd at night - scum!IAAUN doesn't gain anything by trying to redirect a yeet to you in the face of a Y-1 wagon on MT and another wagon at least bubbling on CLAP. IAAUN literally posted while MT was at Y-1 that he felt MT and CLAP were townish. 3rd wagon burgeoning was himself. Just don't make sense. Not even WIFOM, it's just a net negative play. You literally try to take two yeets off the table (and scum!IAAUN presumes at least *one* of MT/CLAP is town, so one guaranteed town flip), knowing that the 3rd option that's been murmured about is yourself - and if scum, a third consecutive scum yeet.

[AGar]

Can I get a yyyyyYYYYYYYEEEET!

[AGar]

I'm a tracker. I have results that two people went nowhere but don't want to out them as not being town power roles unless absolutely necessary.

UmmmmmmMMMMMM

[AGar]

Hey we should Yeet the fuck outta KMD right now.

[AGar]

Crafty attempt on a save, claim the scum PR that already flipped. Not like there would actually

b

a town tracker, amirite?

P-Edit: GC, KMD is lying like a mofo.

[AGar]

If he is then him claiming his targets won’t hurt us. If he isn’t lying I’d like for his results to at least help us in the right direction.

What do you think the odds of there being 3 trackers in one game are?

[AGar]

What do you think the odds of there being 3 trackers in one game are?

[AGar]

If he is then him claiming his targets won’t hurt us. If he isn’t lying I’d like for his results to at least help us in the right direction.

What do you think the odds of there being 3 trackers in one game are?

So you know how I said that Auro might have not wanted to claim tracker b/c scum might have a revelation regarding it

Something like "you are not the only tracker in the game" would make a lotttt of sense ya know

Gamma you are not this dense are you?

[AGar]

I didn't say 2.

[AGar]

If I was lying I wouldn't know both of those players went nowhere.

Preview edit: I wasn't aware I thought Cantlynchapuppy was town

Ya would if you were something like a mafia rolecop ya lying scumbag.

[AGar]

Y'all really gonna be this dense huh?

[AGar]

Y'all really gonna be this dense huh?

AGar, I’m also a tracker.


looooool

notsureif....

[AGar]

If I was lying I wouldn't know both of those players went nowhere.

Preview edit: I wasn't aware I thought Cantlynchapuppy was town

Ya would if you were something like a mafia rolecop ya lying scumbag.

So they have a tracker and a rolecop and the rolecop claims tracker after the tracker dies? Lol what?

Mafia Tracker dies. Mafia don't know setup, claim's the dead role because they can easily fake the results and no way would a scumbag claim his dead scumbuddies role.[/sup]

[AGar]

I tracked Hoops on N1, she went nowhere. That much lines up but I really just don't buy this claim from him.

[AGar]

I don't want to out my N2 track out of the fact that they did in fact visit someone and I would rather not get a potentially more valuable PR merc'd.

[AGar]

is there something I'm missing? I should just yeet kmd at this point right?

We're at Yeet Minus Three rn.

[AGar]

I'm going to drink my gin n tonics in some goddamn peace and quiet and not this goddamn racket but once more for posterity: KMD is super fucking lying and should be yeeted.

[AGar]

Harumph harumph.

More at 9.

[AGar]

My N2 track result isn’t worth claiming anything about at this point, in my opinion. CLAP certainly isn’t gonna come in and dictate otherwise. You can yeet me for all I fuckin care.

[AGar]

Again, I do not feel it’s worth that.

I am the informed one in this specific instance.

[AGar]

I think the target is too risky for PoE reasons. Gonna have to trust me or yeet me.

[AGar]

The only reason I claimed at all was I thought I had Kmd dead to rights in a fake claim. I still believe that. I gave my N1 as a show of faith in confirming that Hoopla didn’t go anywhere N1. If CLAP has beneficial information that they believe reveals insight on the multiple trackers, there’s not a single good reason to make the revelation contingent on me outting a potential stronger town power.

[AGar]

agar is worried because with POE the PR can't be agar/kmd/GC, so that leaves a pool of 8/11, then figure 2 scum so 6/11, and then all the players who haven't visited anybody would be eliminated too

i promise i am not worried about this at all and i have a good reason. you can vote for me tomorrow if i fail to provide a good explanation

Yeah you haven’t inspired me that you’re operating in good faith here.

We can move on as far as I’m concerned, I don’t think this is going to proceed anywhere that benefits the town. My fear is the PR will be PoEd even further than that based on gameplay and associatives.

[AGar]

i think agar is too attached to his scumread on KMD to see the forest for the trees here.

My reticence has nothing to do with that read.

[AGar]

N2 I did track Gamma to UT. I felt that claiming even the UT half wasn't worth it because I felt strongly that it would've narrowed down the pool of who I tracked to 2, maybe 3 players.
N3 I tracked Reck to no one, as well.

Reck was a purely PoE spec choice on who in a pair would potentially carry out a kill based on lower heat.

Now that that's out of the way.

CLAP, before I say another fucking constructive word, you're going to give us something to work with here.

D3 ended with Gamma coming in, adding another tracker claim, and you going "Y'know what? I don't actually need to claim my revelation."

So I'm not posting another goddamn sentence that isn't "CLAP work with me or lynch me," until you at least give us some kind of show of faith. No more conditions.

[AGar]

2)

Another Revelation.

This is a hidden mechanic within the game.

claim: this is my revelation

i will share this revelation after all tracker claims have claimed their actions and any related visits have been resolved

this was my show of good faith. i have a specific claim here, i added that this is the hidden game mechanic (i guess someone could counterclaim if they want?), which proves that i'm not just doing some kind of mystery gambit here

im waiting for GC to claim, when i drop the hidden mechanic i think everyon will agree that it's good to wait for the claims first

GC claimed. Assuming to mean KMD.

One more olive branch - did your revelation specifically clue you into the question regarding targeting the mod or was that spec?

[AGar]

actually, i think now a massclaim would be better in this situation, because of mechanic shenanigans, but i don't think that will fly without some resaon for people to trust me, and the only thing i can do for that is to just claim the mechanic, so it's a chicken-and-egg problem.

but, uh, anyone who doesn't claim, if you have some visits you think you'll have a problem explaining, it's going to be harder to explain them after i claim the mechanic

Sure don't like this post!

[AGar]

This information was not worth literally any of your behavior since the kmd claim.

[AGar]

No crumbs. N1/N2 tracks were pangs of gut. Already explained N3.

[AGar]

Getting caught up a bit - hadn't sat down since Sunday.

2165 - If the kill is what Vi handles, why did you ebwop "kill" to "skill" as part of the crumb? Why are you sure in 2169 that we wouldn't get guilties? Wouldn't, based on what Vi's answered and what we know, at least we see whichever mafia was carrying out the kill visit Vi?

it's odd that ABR would be the NK on night 1 and Porkens would be the NK on night 2 if the kills weren't dictated by the mafia

THIS.

Re, 2179 - I was well aware that Gamma

could

have been mafia even if he wasn't carrying out the kill - we knew there were 2 anti-town players left and there's no indication of multiball. Your revelation doesn't suddenly mean we all don't have a lack of any common sense.

2186 is a bad post, brought to you by bad gamesense.

2245 is Y I K E S, dawg.

Someone spell out to me why CLAP's information is definitely to have come from town? Like, all I've seen is confusion and a strange insistence that their information needed the results first that still doesn't track with the information that's been given.

[AGar]

I think I've been extremely clear that I too think it's suspicious af

I'm aware, I just needed to also echo it.

2302 is a lot of "No, I couldn't possibly scum!" coming after I lightly suggested that maybe adding a "revelation" that just seems to have prompted more questions and speculation than answers after basically holding conversation hostage at the end of D3 because you had this wild revelation that was totes gonna blow our minds.

[AGar]

Just when I thought we couldn't get any dumber.

[AGar]

Proposal:

[Tracker A] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Tracker B] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Tracker C] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Vi]

[Tracker D] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Tracker E] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Tracker F] >>>>Tracks>>>> [Vi]

Which of the 5 tracker claims do you doubt is a tracker? Just VPB?

[AGar]

Which of the 5 tracker claims do you doubt is a tracker? Just VPB?

I think either of the two who offered to track Vi have a higher likelihood of being scum.

(Bear in mind VP Baltar just seamlessly transitioned from "Me fake claiming is risky because I could get caught tomorrow based on who I track tonight" to "Sure, I'll track the mod tonight")

Why would you posit GC is scum? Based off of yesterday’s bullshit, GC only makes sense as scum with a kmd flip as scum.

[AGar]

Do the trackers know what they are doing tonight?

Not a fucking clue at the moment.

[AGar]

the argument CLAP is making is that if we keep random kills (again we don't know they're actually random) then the kills might help us eliminate our potential yeetpool

like if we take out a non-tracker today and scumkill hits another non-tracker overnight

and also that it's possible scum have some other way to fight trackers, given that it's likely Vi planned for the game to go more or less just like this.

But uh, since it doesn't look like anyone else likes this, i'll tell you half and see if everyone wants the other half. im not trying to be coy or unhelpful, i just think there's an obvious risk to sharing what i don't have to unless there's a good consensus for it:

there's something called a "calamity trigger". if it gets triggered, the kill mechanics are no longer in effect. (I don't want to say "go back to normal" because i don't actually know what "normal" is). the way it's worded in my role PM is something like this: scum pick the kill, Vi blocks it and then makes a new kill (which may or may not be the same),

until the calamity trigger goes off

the calamity trigger is held by a certain town slot (i kind of assumed this was the tarhalindur negative utility everyone was speculating about earlier). presumably that town slot knows who they are, i don't want to out unless there's consensus for it. the name "calamity trigger" kind of scared me because i wasn't sure if killing that players would have any other effects besides changing the kill mechanics

So lemme get this straight: You

didn't

think it was a good idea to let us know that one player can "reset" the kill mechanic and thus make our

literal plethora

of trackers useful?

Why?

I'm of the opinion we need to know who the calamity trigger is today and regain the power we have in our trackers, but that's just me.

[AGar]

I need to work through a serious re-read because I can’t make up or down of this fucking game right now. Would appreciate not going crazy before Sunday and yeeting anybody, got a solid hundo pages to trudge through.

[AGar]

Perilously close to a prod.

Still on that re-read. Seeing the KMD/CLAP as the substance of a UT push is... it's fucking lol.

[AGar]

@CLAP

Want to clarify something - does your role PM gives you any indication that scum would have known about the kill prior to the resolution of N1 actions? I believe you've alluded it's no but I'm not certain and a read on a D1 event hinges somewhat on this.

[AGar]

your role PM gives you any indication that scum would have known about the kill prior to the resolution of N1 actions? I believe you've alluded it's no but I'm not certain and a re

i can't parse this, can u try asking again? if you mean "how much do you know scum know," i have very little idea (which is one reason why drip dropping my information is objectively good, haha haters)

Does your role PM give any indication that scum could have been aware of the wonky kill mechanic at the outset?

[AGar]

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[AGar]

I quite enjoyed the setup, Vi. Thanks for running. I enjoyed playing with most of the player list, was fun to spar with some old names.

[AGar]

Oh yeah, well done VPB. I had you written off as town until Vi gave us the drop in the dead thread.

[AGar]

Holy shit. I don't get a single well done or any respect, only insults for an epic Day 1 performance. You should all feel bad about yourselves for being ABR Greatness Deniers.

Weren’t you on a sabbatical?

[AGar]

Curious to see the mafia Pat if it’s gonna be divulged at any point.

[AGar]

I really need to roll scum in a few games so this tarnishing of my reputation stops.

[AGar]

VPB/Kmd: after CLAP claimed, did y’all give any consideration to killing him to gain your kill back or did you think the untrackable nature gave you a better chance?