Datisi's University [game over!]

[Titus]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Titus]

so...

anyone have any guesses as to how the third party might work here?

Cringe

[Titus]

Greetings, everyone, I'll be fully transparent with this:

I'm setting my studying to 0% today.

Call this anti-town as much as you wish, suspicious if you prefer. Fair. The scum points mechanic is powerful; I'm aware of the risks.

I've strong reasons for doing so. By D4, you'll know why.

I've ~reasons~. Trust my scumhunting skills.

i feel like if we're going to trust scumhunting skills then could just set to 100% and ya know, find the scums,

but eh, i don't have whatever information you have regardless so it's meaningless to discuss

You are an enigma. On the one hand, you have no problem telling certain roles that may or may not exist whether or not to study but find an implied claim meaningless to discuss.

[Titus]

VOTE: ina marija

I'd be voting there but not caught up.

*puts Dann in town for now bin*

[Titus]

She probably planned to do it before even receiving her role PM.

Disagree but I think there's a town reason to post this and a possibility I could be wrong. So disagree but townpoints.

[Titus]

what do you think is a useful line of discussion right now?

How about behavior? Please. I am all one for mech and data

when there's shit on the table.

Ranger's comment is the closest thing to that but anyone who knows Ranger knows she posts things to manipulate. To what end? We'd find that, and her alignment, out later. It's wifom. That's the sole mech shit we have, so I don't want to hear it.

[Titus]

ok actually i changed my mind VOTE: drew

ina you're off the hook

Ina's not off the hook with me as filler mechanics talk is something I would love as scum. It demotivates town and gets info at the same time. I'm not lock scumming her but I'd like to see that brain process interactions as she's smart enough to.

[Titus]

I thought your reaction was fine Dann and probably a little townie, if we want to talk mech we will just ignore you

I'm not okay with ignoring someone and I don't like that you appear to be.

[Titus]

I thought your reaction was fine Dann and probably a little townie, if we want to talk mech we will just ignore you

I'm not okay with ignoring someone and I don't like that you appear to be.

This is somewhat similar to my thought! Not that I think I'm as smart as Titus..

Must resist flattery must resist flattery

That's a nice ctuthlu keychain

On a more serious note, there are different types of smart. I hope I can make a townblock with all kinds. I want you to be town so I can have your EQ and charm.

[Titus]

ok actually i changed my mind VOTE: drew

ina you're off the hook

Ina's not off the hook with me as filler mechanics talk is something I would love as scum. It demotivates town and gets info at the same time. I'm not lock scumming her but I'd like to see that brain process interactions as she's smart enough to.

idk i kinda buy ina was excited about it

idk that it's actually AI either way

I don't doubt she is. Mech players gonna mech. It's when it's all mech that it's a problem.

[Titus]

Congratulations to Ranger's Special Someone tonight.

[Titus]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

is that actually the only thing you want to interact with so far?

Do you understand what it means - what kind of read it expresses?

I'd like to requests statements rather than questions unless casing someone aggressively. Let's not make this confusing and hard to read.

[Titus]

I agree about the Titus offness

I thought she was a little... uncharitable? towards ina

which makes the absence of a vote weirder

I am uncharitable towards bad play. My goal however is to find the cause and determine alignment. People make mistakes. It doesn't make them scum. I feel like someone is trying to provoke a T v T. I'm not sure which.

Given the same people want Drew, I'm inclined not to despite it getting out of RVS.

[Titus]

I doubt it's all scum as I hard TR Dann.

[Titus]

I think the Titus post reads the most innocently if she was joking about resisting flattery. If she was serious, I think I agree she seemed to be serving two gods in one breath, and one as a virtue show off.

Hopefully she was completely joking and will accept the gift of my favorite trinket!

I was joking. People rarely see me joke.

[Titus]

I agree about the Titus offness

I thought she was a little... uncharitable? towards ina

which makes the absence of a vote weirder

I am uncharitable towards bad play. My goal however is to find the cause and determine alignment. People make mistakes. It doesn't make them scum. I feel like someone is trying to provoke a T v T. I'm not sure which.

Given the same people want Drew, I'm inclined not to despite it getting out of RVS.

if that's bad play all of my play is bad; not sure why you have the expectation that i am 'smart' et cetera

like i really don't see how anything i've done would be classified as a mistake maybe you disagree on approach but there's no like, objective way to analyse that

Strong disagree. I have determined role fishing is wrong unless info suggests otherwise. That's an objective correct play and I'm not arguing it.

[Titus]

Ina's not off the hook with me as filler mechanics talk is something I would love as scum. It demotivates town and gets info at the same time.

do you really the goal of my posting thus far has been to demotivate town?

I'm not lock scumming her but I'd like to see that brain process interactions as she's smart enough to.

not sure why you'd need to clarify that you're not lock scumming me here nor am i sure why you have this impression of me

however! i don't really think processing interactions has much to do with being smart enough anyway rather simply desire or interest in doing so but it's not like scum!me couldn't do this just the same

like how is 'oh she will definitely start processing interactions now that i've told her to if she's town and that is how i will know' like, a useful approach to me,

I'm trying to sort your motivation. I don't know what it is, but I will cut off unhealthy behaviors and I have no problem with how it looks. People can find me a bit bitchy.

Thoughts on GL, Andres and Drew?

[Titus]

Thoughts on GL, Andres and Drew?

idk guiltylion and andresvmb thoughts seem mostly reasonable and interactions feel fine if a little, like, intended to happen maybe

but that can just as easily be explained by familiarity with other players as anything else

and doctor drew feels maybe less angled here than in my experience but that experience is limited

why those three?

Angled? Can you explain? Everyone has an agenda. It's about solving what it is. For instance, I liked your lack of defensiveness and not mech talking. Not sure I follow this completely but I feel it's honest.

GuiltyLion and Andres seem pretty close but I know we need some people working together to get the game going. They want Drew and I don't get why.

[Titus]

Angled? Can you explain? Everyone has an agenda. It's about solving what it is. For instance, I liked your lack of defensiveness and not mech talking. Not sure I follow this completely but I feel it's honest.

GuiltyLion and Andres seem pretty close but I know we need some people working together to get the game going. They want Drew and I don't get why.

doctor drew in the previous game we played together took just downhill > you did this therefore this > approach to me which was mostly absent here but could have been abandoned due to the aforementioned familiarity, however then doctor drew saying, 'oh but maybe there was more to it...' later when it's like, okay but in that case why are you taking such a longview approach to me? like it's not like doctor drew would have any reason to believe i wouldn't simply respond to any concerns et cetera

Which game are you referring to?

[Titus]

Thoughts on GL, Andres and Drew?

idk guiltylion and andresvmb thoughts seem mostly reasonable and interactions feel fine if a little, like, intended to happen maybe

but that can just as easily be explained by familiarity with other players as anything else

and doctor drew feels maybe less angled here than in my experience but that experience is limited

why those three?

Angled? Can you explain? Everyone has an agenda. It's about solving what it is. For instance, I liked your lack of defensiveness and not mech talking. Not sure I follow this completely but I feel it's honest.

GuiltyLion and Andres seem pretty close but I know we need some people working together to get the game going. They want Drew and I don't get why.

Titus can you expand more on your thoughts on GL and Andres. Do you have actual reads on either of them?

I feel like GL explained pretty clearly why he was voting Drew

I've also been wanting Drew and I'm not sure why you aren't engaging with me if you town read me so

For GL and Andres, I noticed the closeness that seemed premature but I want to stew on that to determine a read because 1) they both pushed me so it could be reflexive and 2) we but heads in general. I like the chess match with them.

You play on a more inuitive level and I established a read on you. If I reference someone, I'm usually a) trying to sort them, b) trying to get them to help me sort evidence I have seen or c) trying to get them to vote my way. Rarely d) explain something (this post). I'm waiting a bit for the pieces to move to assess the board.

On that note, I am debating moving my vote to Drew or Ari, not for scum reasons but I don't TR them either and woot VCA.

[Titus]

Ranger is calculating. If Ranger's scum, I expect to find it later on in her tierlists or other strategic moves. On the spectrum of strategy v gut, we tend to be on the far end of strategy. Everything Ranger does, regardless of alignment is calculated towards her goal. Ranger would almost never make a plot before seeing her role pm. Blue is wrong here. I don't believe it's nefarious though.

[Titus]

I would put everyone on a gut versus strategy scale in my opinion (note: not objective fact) but I feel that would benefit scum and tip off precisely how I read people in the absence of votes.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ari

[Titus]

I find Ranger's vote odd strategically given I can't see the thought process behind her reads. Open invitation for help. Ranger's extremely confident that Ari's scum that she's willing to vote with her next biggest scumread on the wagon when that scumread is basically voting for the luls. Based upon my prior game with Ranger, I'd expect more post interaction.

A lot of Ranger's high to moderate town (well I am assuming strength) are the ones voting Drew, yet there's no comment from Ranger.

@Ranger, Long story short I'd like to see more of your thought process.

[Titus]

VLA this weekend, pain flare up

[Titus]

VOTE: osuka

VCA ftw.

I'll catch up tomorrow but I want to vote here for reactions, particularly one person's but I bet they know who they are.

[Titus]

I haven't read everything but I feel for Wheme. I had one game many years ago. Legit scumslip on post 18. Didn't lim it.

Most "slips" are not slips however.

[Titus]

I'm seeing a Sail wagon crop up opposed to the osuka wagon. I'm doubt it's S v S unless osuka is a high value role and Sail isn't. It could be two organic wagons and I've seen it before but it's maybe 1 in 50 games.

That being said, I don't have a problem with how either of these wagons formed individually.

[Titus]

What’s rangers next post about? About how she’s fine with a wagon on me although she doesnt like lazy wagons.

I don't recall stating any dislike of lazy wagons.

If we go back a game ranger pushed me day 1 in the dream game. I was a lazy wagon then

Lazy? You were my top scumread when I voted you. Far from laziness. When you were a much weaker scumread, I didn't join.

Here, you're nobody's top scumread. Anyone voting you wouldn't be pursuing the slot they think most likely scum, which is...laziness.

I'll also say this. WhemeStar is apparently under two mistaken impressions: the gap between him and Fire Assassin is substantial; I wouldn't vote Fire Assassin.

Both incorrect. WhemeStar was

barely

above Fire Assassin (all of him/Dusa/FA were near equal reads), and wasn't low. Despite both being townreads, I'd have voted them, as while they're not strong scumreads, they're not topping the charts of my townreads. In short, a compromise: not a wagon I'd join expecting to catch scum, yet a wagon I believe has a reasonable chance would.

I think you know better than not voting top suspect = lazy.

Voting someone and tunneling is very lazy.

Gambits can be very unlazy.

[Titus]

Excuse me while I compare Ranger's reads to the VCs

[Titus]

vote count 1.07

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

osuka [4]:

Doctor Drew, furtiveglance, Dannflor, Titus,

Sail [4]:

NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin

Aristeia [2]:

Ranger, KatyKimFanClub

Doctor Drew [2]:

Andresvmb, BlueSnakelet

furtiveglance [2]:

RCEnigma, jjh927

Dannflor [1]:

osuka

Ranger [1]:

WhemeStar

WhemeStar [1]:

Dusa

not voting [2]:

ina marija, Sail

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
this is a mod note.

flavour

[redacted]

{jjh927}
{ina marija}

{Dannflor}

{GuiltyLion}

{furtiveglance}
{Doctor Drew}

{Dusa}
{WhemeStar}
{KatyKimFanClub}

{RCEnigma}

{Sail}

{Fire Assassin}

{Titus}

{osuka}

{Andresvmb}
{BlueSnakelet}

{NorwegianboyEE}
{Aristeia}

P38.

Join Ranger?

[Titus]

I want to see what 3 slots do. They're all in white.

[Titus]

What about the people on the wagons, Titus

Who do you townread

I like GL, Dann, furtive, DD and NorwegianboyEE.

I am more about setting up chess pieces than pushing my own agenda yet. Straight up need more info. I'll get reactions until I get what I need.

[Titus]

I want to see what 3 slots do. They're all in white.

like votewise? is that only metric, or?

It's my main metric.

[Titus]

What about the people on the wagons, Titus

Who do you townread

I like GL, Dann, furtive, DD and NorwegianboyEE.

I am more about setting up chess pieces than pushing my own agenda yet. Straight up need more info. I'll get reactions until I get what I need.

Isn't that like your scumplay but you're just being transparent about doing it?

It's Titus play. No one should ever feel I'm predictable perfectly, but I have zero qualms voting anyone to get wagon data I need.

[Titus]

Not sure what you're doing here but I'd typically expect to see you pick up some townreads, defend the odd townread when one of them gets attacked, and then do whatever passes for day 1 vca that is somewhat informed by your reads and those interactions which you don't seem to have had yet

You don't need to know what I'm doing because not even I know yet. I'm trying to get to the latter and using the gamestate to read people. Ranger is a high non VCA priority read for me as I'm trying to get reads that go beyond the obvious.

[Titus]

It could be two organic wagons and I've seen it before but it's maybe 1 in 50 games.

uh, this doesn't seem right for large games just too many players for one of two wagons arising at a certain point to be scum led 98% of the time

That's correct. You misunderstood me. It's town leading two scum wagons simultaneously That's rare

[Titus]

idk i find myself in a similar boat as Dusa right now

osuka actually strikes me as actively scummy and while I see the case for Sail I'm not sure I see them flipping red as often

I see a Sail wagon and I don't get why it's a thing with so many obvtown against it.

[Titus]

Either my reads are wrong or that feels like a panic wagon.

[Titus]

I sense Ranger v NorwegianboyEE will be T v T.

[Titus]

228 gives Drew lots of praise for statinng a little fact based on a past game. Gods, demigods, and mortals post matter of fact! Only demigods plot to take over the classroom.
Sometimes you see a demigod post little facts instead of things that show heart.

Sail's insolence is a good sign, but interpreting fact telling only one way is bad sign.

If Osuka is scum this game i would accept the egg on my face and that i'll get scumread for defending them. But i really don't think they are.
Feel better about Sail for now.

Just a maid but I can't help but notice that all the other people raising tridents against osuka seem largely full-blooded..

idk the timing of osuka wagon gaining steam after the Sail CW formed is giving me heebie jeebies

also furtive/Drew slots aren't at an unassailably town level for me

idk i find myself in a similar boat as Dusa right now

osuka actually strikes me as actively scummy and while I see the case for Sail I'm not sure I see them flipping red as often

@Dann

[Titus]

Also if Osuka is mafia it means they decided to not join any bigger or consensus wagons/scumreads by going on a tangent towards Dannflor that will never get any support.
This has two explanations.
Either Osuka really does believe in their read and doesn’t care how much support their push get’s or is likely to get. (Extremely town indicative)
Or Osuka did it because they expected to get townread and are mafia

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Occam’s razor?

Osuka is just town here, and scum are supporting this wagon.

Option c, Osuka is caught and denying post flip associations.

[Titus]

I could go for andres if VOTE: Furtive doesn’t pick up.

Are you wanting Osuka or not?

[Titus]

VOTE: RCE

[Titus]

Objection your honor, relevance.

Pocket denied. Objection overruled. Everyone may answer questions.

[Titus]

I find it odd osuka jumped on my RCE read given I gave no reasons for it. I find it odd as a whole no one asked why.

On the whole, I get the idea RCE is looking to nitpick and divide.

[Titus]

Sorry I forgot to VLA.

Reading now.

[Titus]

I find it odd as a whole no one asked why.

??? why not just say why so we can talk about that

like what is the tangible benefit of naked voting and hoping for someone to ask why vs. saying why so it can be discussed

like is 'quote naked vote > ask why?' somehow an alignment indicative thing to you?

and if not yeah why not just say why

Because I'm seeing who is willing to investigate oddball things that have a decent chance of being correct. We have a too many chefs and not enough sheep situation.

[Titus]

I find it odd as a whole no one asked why.

Why did you say this?
You know not everyone is a child of the Professor!
A dark ally who challenged you on why you were voting RCEnigma would just be volunteering for a hard chore over such a weak poke.

Are you really thinking or just spouting "classroom things"?

I don't get this but I'll try to answer. Not everyone is scum obviously but I'm looking for people who aren't supporting unity. RCEnigma keeps shading people rather than seeking to build common ground.

[Titus]

But yeah I'd like to encourage ina in particular to peruse my reads because I realise she's absolutely in my town reads but I have very little idea where we overlap on thoughts right now

Anyone else is welcome as well I guess

For instance, this is likely town behavior.

[Titus]

Don't think I'm gonna get much more immediate response out of jabbing Wheme so yeah, guess it is time

VOTE: Whemestar

can start here i guess

it's like, don't really understand your issue with whemestar's issue with ranger's reads like ranger has aristeia and norwegianboyee at the very bottom, both of whom you would not place there, neither would i, and i wouldn't say katykimfanclub has been particularly towny to me

like i still have questions out to whemestar regarding but i guess outside of myself the particular qualms seem fine to me

like maybe(?) there's a relevance to the one of the previous games played with ranger was scum!whemestar town!ranger but idk how to take that into account with regards to 'had this expectation of ranger readslist was not met',

which it is weird to me that whemestar doubled down on that being relevant to thought process like i thought 'yeah i could see that being noteworthy' but beyond that eh but! also you were questioning it so could be why whemestar still considering

This post is part of why I didn't like Ranger either (as of this point). She feels like she's flailing.

[Titus]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

It's not that I think it's in your scum meta to do something like that, but based on your personality I could imagine scum!you doing that more than town!you.

What about osuka's suggests scum? I lean that way myself (as of now) but I want to see what you mean.

[Titus]

These are about where my reads are at. I'm feeling a bit disengaged, I might as well go ISO someone.

Town:

Dannflor
GuiltyLion
ina marija
jjh
Dusa

Leaning town:

furtiveglance
Andresvmb
Doctor Drew
FA

Null, slightly town:

RCE
Aristeia

Null, slightly scum:

camelCasedSnivy
WhemeStar

Leaning scum:

Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)

Scum:

osuka

VOTE: osuka

Sail having ouska this low after this long suggests S v S possibly.

[Titus]

These are about where my reads are at. I'm feeling a bit disengaged, I might as well go ISO someone.

Leaning scum:

Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)

Scum:

osuka

This is a take so estranged I instantly think +town.

Why? I get scum from that. If you're town, it encourages T v T v T. (I hard TR NorwegianboyEE).

[Titus]

can someone walk me through the osuka wagon though

i'll sum it up for you: people didn't like my catchups, then they didn't like how i responded to a push, then titus votes because of "vca" and sail is trying to get me executed to save themselves

did i miss anything?

These two posts ring scum to me. The first is melodramatic. The second is overly defensive.

[Titus]

See, I feel like town in this situation would actually both to engage with my posts and reads. But osuka is in danger of being limmed, he wants to go as hard as he possibly can at me to buy himself another day.

this is a scumpost like 70%+ of the time

town would also want to buy themselves another day, nobody wants to get limmed regardless of alignment. But you are choosing to sell this as a point for osuka!scum, it is motivated reasoning

I agree. Sail wasn't in self preservation range. They both are over the top.

[Titus]

Leaning scum:
Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)
Scum:
osuka

why is Norwee the only player to get the "not totally sure" qualifier? doesn't "leaning scum" already imply you're not sure? are you saying you're more confident that Titus and Ranger are scum than Norwee? why wouldn't Norwee just be in the tier above?

Since GL mentions it i can add that i felt it was odd too.
It's like Sail feels like there isn't enough material to scumread me but they have to place me as a scumread to not validate my read on them.

Basically that they aren't making a real read, but a strategic one.

I think a town!Sail would have just been honest about having me as a null or townread if that's how they really felt. Instead it all seems very artificial.

Sail does feel like that. It's awfully easy to have me in left overs. It's place for scum who are struggling. I don't believe there are many slots (minus those who pegged me as town early) who do. I find the people who have me as null more genuine, which is why I have Ranger as null. As a whole, Ranger reads townbeard. I don't want T v Ts.

[Titus]

Actually Dann is voting me which is just plain odd. Aristeia is on Sail.

I'm ok with the sheeping TRs for now, but need to flag this if Sail flips.

[Titus]

I’m falling asleep, so I’ll stop here.

Updated reads:
Lean Town
{GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE, Dannflor, Aristeia, ina marija}
Slight Lean Town
{Fire Assassin, WhemeStar, Titus}
Uncertain
{osuka, Doctor Drew, KatyKimFanClub, Dusa, jjh927}
Slight Lean Scum
{BlueSnakelet, furtiveglance, Sail, RCEnigma}
Lean Scum
{Ranger}

Why do you have me as slight lean town?

[Titus]

there’s 5 slots that do not necessarily want the Town to succeed, so we have to come together sooner rather than later.

The third party probably has an interest in having town lim a scum at this point too.
When i played third-party in Control i felt that the mafia was more of an threat to me in the early days than the town was. The third-party has to deal with the fact that the scum probably wants to kill them and is united against them with the ability to night-kill. Limiting the scum's potency early on is also in the interest of the third-party here.
Counting the third-party as "just another scum" isn't really the correct mindset to have.

I agreeish. It depends on their wincon, which we don't know. It's ok to guess it's just an SK.

[Titus]

I think I probably don’t want to kill Andres anymore either

I’ll organize my thoughts properly when my V/LA ends tonight

I go back and forth on Andres. I see him vascillate between town posting and scum posting. His reads as meh, his overposting is annoying, but I like his process on individual shorter pists.

[Titus]

Don't really feel obligated to interact with you

Townie post.

[Titus]

Titus if you think osuka vs Sail is SvS then what exactly do you think the scum team is doing here

Yolobussing each other and hoping for the best?

It kinda doesn’t make a lot of sense to me when the only person meaningfully trying to change the status quo wagons is jjh, and I’m not prepared to revisit that slot without flips

I think they're stuck in a position where they're both obvious scum and can't get another wagon to stick. See RCE

[Titus]

Why does the sudden unexpected wagon have to be on Ranger

Haven't read but I am a bit of wtf.

VOTE: Sail

I am skeptical of last minute wagons.

[Titus]

Excuse the wall but I wanted to analyze the Ranger speed wagon events and other interesting posts since my last post.

Tons of ppl seem to sus Ranger but nothing comes out of it is sus

Ranger sus. Would wagon. Observing a true pattern? Shopping a wagon?

Leaning scum:
Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)
Scum:
osuka

why is Norwee the only player to get the "not totally sure" qualifier? doesn't "leaning scum" already imply you're not sure? are you saying you're more confident that Titus and Ranger are scum than Norwee? why wouldn't Norwee just be in the tier above?

I could envision numerous scenarios in which he might be very scummy and a lot of worlds in which he might be very towny. My read of him had the highest degree of uncertainty compared to my other reads.

Sail floating Ranger in an awkward way.

Floats 2

do you have, like, opinions on sail

or osuka even

Uhm I’ve been initially townreading osuka

Then I read their interactions with KKFC who I thought was just being a fly on the wall and treading water but then with their interactions osuka looked pretty bad and KKFC owned.

What about the slot at E-1

I agree that Ranger is scummy but I think currently people are more distracted by shinier objects, and I don’t think that’s a huge deal unless you think they are both town wagons

Float 3

I think this game is kinda weird with how entrenched the wagons have been

The sail wagon is basically just the doctor drew wagon 2.0 and then aside from the osuka wagon which briefly existed between this, people outside the sail wagon group haven't been able to organise into anything despite my repeated attempts to try and find something

Not a float, but I agree. Makes me want to flip them for game state VCA but on the other hand I doubt all are scum.

if Dusa would allow me to interpret

I think it means Sail, osuka, Ari, and Ranger are stronger scum reads - while RCE and myswlf are weaker scum reads

I think the Gods attached to each player are supposed to be emblematic of our playstyles this game

Float 4

Titus if you think osuka vs Sail is SvS then what exactly do you think the scum team is doing here

Yolobussing each other and hoping for the best?

It kinda doesn’t make a lot of sense to me when the only person meaningfully trying to change the status quo wagons is jjh, and I’m not prepared to revisit that slot without flips

I think they're stuck in a position where they're both obvious scum and can't get another wagon to stick. See RCE

It’s not infrequent that Town will wagon two Scum to the edge D1

at separate times

. Two Scum however being the only viable alternatives D1 I’m sure you’ll agree is far more uncommon. It almost means Scum literally do not care about the game or the Town are killing it and frankly, I’ve yet to see Town absolutely murder a game (and particularly a Large). Don’t you agree?

I agree it's not common but see the game where I was Nashville Dreams. All my team got wagoned Dq.

It's probably unrealistic/unlikely but I've been sorta low-key hoping Ranger vs Wheme is SvS so all of us can each be right about those two slots in our own way

Float 5

I'd join a Ranger speedwagon tbh

there's a part of me that thinks Sail!scum just self hammers there?

Repeat float

VOTE: Ranger

Vote match float

VOTE: ranger

VOTE: Ranger

Jump on.

it could definitely still be antispew - I know I previously said it doesn't feel obviously scummy but 1719 is meh, there's certainly a lot more a town!Sail

could

be saying here

VOTE: Ranger
however I'm not opposed to this and I'm curious to what degree this will take off

we can always switch back to Sail at deadline if need be

Vote match float

I guess one thing we should maybe consider is that Ranger did softclaim a PR

but idk if that really means she can't be wagoned

Matches worry but reads.

Before i’d consider voting Ranger.

@Ranger
Why did you move me up in your reads lists at some point?

These two have gone at it. Float 6

VOTE: Ranger

Vote consistent.

So outside of Titus, the

entire bottom

of their reads supports a wagon and they jump on it? Make that make sense.

Interesting point.

[Titus]

Titus, do you have any thoughts on how entrenched the wagon comps have been up to this point, particularly upon comparing the sail wagon with the drew wagon?

Will compare now.

[Titus]

vote count 1.04

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

Doctor Drew [6]:

Dannflor, Fire Assassin, GuiltyLion, Andresvmb, Aristeia, BlueSnakelet

Aristeia [3]:

Titus, Ranger, jjh927

furtiveglance [1]:

RCEnigma

osuka [1]:

Doctor Drew

GuiltyLion [1]:

KatyKimFanClub

Titus [1]:

Sail

jjh927 [1]:

WhemeStar

Ranger [1]:

Dusa

not voting [4]:

furtiveglance, Deltabreedy, ina marija, osuka

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
Titus is v/la this weekend.
KatyKimFanClum is v/la until monday.
this is a mod note.

flavour

vote count 1.12

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

Sail [9]:

NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin, Doctor Drew, osuka, Andresvmb, Dusa, Dannflor

osuka [2]:

Sail, KatyKimFanClub

RCEnigma [1]:

Titus

furtiveglance [1]:

RCEnigma

Ranger [1]:

WhemeStar

WhemeStar [1]:

jjh927

Doctor Drew [1]:

camelCasedSnivy

camelCasedSnivy [1]:

Ranger

Aristeia [1]:

furtiveglance

not voting [1]:

ina marija

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
Fire Assassing is v/la until tuesday.
Dusa is v/la until monday.
Sail is v/la until monday.
this is a mod note.

flavour

From looking at these two wagons, I get the feeling there are two camps which happens frequently. There's little overlap between these wagons. A speed wagon might occur in these instances.

What's more telling is the townier voices recycled from Drew onto Ranger.

[Titus]

This speed wagon looks organic. It says nothing about accuracy but I don't have an issue with any members, just that it's a speed wagon.

[Titus]

I'll admit that the wagon composition colors my results. Giving me VCs and ignoring it is difficult.

However, I am not a fan of Ranger's reads. They feel easy. Yes, she feels good on an individual reply basis but it feels like (aside from NorwegianboyEE) she's going for easy.

[Titus]

Titus, what is a float?
I’m assuming you don’t refer to a large inflatable raft on the water.

Shop a wagon without committing to it. To float an idea.

[Titus]

It has taken me like a bajillion years to reach this conclusion but Fire Assassin was part of the shift towards the Sail wagon despite A. scumreading osuka and B. Never voting osuka

Going over them, their interactions do kinda read like unrehearsed SvS

Let's punt on this. If Osuka is scum, then we can look at FA.

[Titus]

well either way this was an interesting experiment

I hope Titus gets some juicy VCA out of this EoD

I plan to. I secretly hope a vig shoots Ranger as well. Only intellectually though. I waffle on her alignment.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranger

Alisae, start here.

[Titus]

So quick wagon summary is drew was the popular wagon for the early game, they didn’t really engage with it and it died out. Slots moved to Osuka and a counterwagon on Sail formed. These were the competing wagons for the day. Close to EOD a flash wagon started on Ranger full of mostly townread slots.

The not-so townread slots pushed back on it and moved the elim back to sail.

Correct mostly. I want to see Ranger's alignment for VCA purposes

[Titus]

VOTE: osuka

I think we need to do this first.

The reason you didn't want Ranger yesterday was "PR", so why aren't you wanting to sort there now?

[Titus]

I want to see Ranger's alignment for VCA purposes

If expecting anything but town, prepare for disappointment.

You'll hopefully show me what to expect. In the absence of better alternatives, you're a good vote.

A camel vote is a hard sell without a guilty. It tells me nothing.

[Titus]

I want to see the result here. I am finding it interesting that there's no follow up from the people who voted yesterday.

[Titus]

Maybe i just don’t feel like Titus is here because i don’t understand most their takes.

Coincidentally, exactly the same i feel i’m getting from Dusa.

Show me a game where you have understood me. Lmao.

[Titus]

I think ccs doesn't have a scum agenda. The observation error suggests no plan.

[Titus]

Also, I saw Andres wanting some VCA. I'm on it.

[Titus]

Spoiler: VCs

vote count 1.07

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

osuka [4]:

Doctor Drew, furtiveglance, Dannflor, Titus

Sail [4]:

NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin

Aristeia [2]:

Ranger, KatyKimFanClub

Doctor Drew [2]:

Andresvmb, BlueSnakelet

furtiveglance [2]:

RCEnigma, jjh927

Dannflor [1]:

osuka

Ranger [1]:

WhemeStar

WhemeStar [1]:

Dusa

not voting [2]:

ina marija, Sail

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
this is a mod note.

flavour

vote count 1.08

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

osuka [6]:

furtiveglance, Titus, RCEnigma, Dusa, Andresvmb, Ranger

Sail [4]:

NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin

Aristeia [1]:

KatyKimFanClub

Doctor Drew [1]:

BlueSnakelet

furtiveglance [1]:

jjh927

Dannflor [1]:

osuka

Ranger [1]:

WhemeStar

Andresvmb [1]:

Dannflor

not voting [3]:

ina marija, Sail, Doctor Drew

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
this is a mod note.

flavour

vote count 1.10

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

Sail [6]:

NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin, Doctor Drew, osuka

osuka [3]:

furtiveglance, Dusa, Sail

RCEnigma [1]:

Titus

furtiveglance [1]:

RCEnigma

Ranger [1]:

WhemeStar

Andresvmb [1]:

Dannflor

WhemeStar [1]:

jjh927

Dusa [1]:

Andresvmb

Doctor Drew [1]:

camelCasedSnivy

camelCasedSnivy [1]:

Ranger

not voting [2]:

ina marija, KatyKimFanClub

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
Fire Assassing is v/la until tuesday.
Dusa is v/la until monday.
Sail is v/la until monday.
Dannflor is v/la until sunday night.
this is a mod note.

flavour

vote count 1.14

with 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to make a decision. week 1 ends in (expired on 2023-08-31 19:00:00).

dismissal

Ranger [6]:

WhemeStar, Dusa, Dannflor, RCEnigma, GuiltyLion, Andresvmb

Sail [5]:

NorwegianboyEE, Aristeia, Fire Assassin, Doctor Drew, Ranger

osuka [2]:

Sail, KatyKimFanClub

RCEnigma [1]:

Titus

WhemeStar [1]:

jjh927

Doctor Drew [1]:

camelCasedSnivy

Aristeia [1]:

furtiveglance

not voting [2]:

ina marija, osuka

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
Fire Assassing is v/la until tuesday.
this is a mod note.

flavour

vote count 1.final

with 19 votes in play, it took 10 to make a decision. week 1 ended.

dismissal

Sail [10]:

NorwegianboyEE, Aristeia, Fire Assassin, Doctor Drew, Titus, Andresvmb, camelCasedSnivy, osuka, GuiltyLion, Dannflor

[HAMMER]

Ranger [3]:

WhemeStar, Dusa, RCEnigma

osuka [2]:

Sail, KatyKimFanClub

WhemeStar [1]:

jjh927

Aristeia [1]:

furtiveglance

camelCasedSnivy [1]:

Ranger

not voting [1]:

ina marija

mod notes

if you're sending me a PM related to this game, please make sure to include "uni", "university", or "datisi" in the subject of the PM!
this is a mod note.

flavour

[Titus]

Osaka 6 - furtiveglance, Titus, RCEnigma, Dusa, Andresvmb, Ranger

Sail pulls ahead- NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Fire Assassin, Doctor Drew, osuka

Ranger pulls ahead- WhemeStar, Dusa, Dannflor, RCEnigma, GuiltyLion, Andresvmb

Osaka to Sail no common names
Sail to Ranger no common names
Dusa RCE Andres common to Ranger and osaka

Interesting that Ranger and osaka both hand similar names. If any of dusa, rce and andres are scum, it's a fair bet that Ranger and osaka are being bussed or forced miselimination given wagon positions.

[Titus]

@Dannflor I concur with the lack of Ranger fire yesterday. I know it's vain but I would have expected her to put effort into sorting me.

[Titus]

even though im at e-4 im tempted to just claim and get that part over with because ive wasted quite a bit of time for the last few pages

pedit alright then all i wanted to know if thats all you did to be allegedly uncooperative

O.o? Why so soon?

[Titus]

because im probably going to stay the lead wagon

That seems a bit paranoid. Almost like you feel your claim auto saves you too.

[Titus]

I'm still waiting on Ranger's reply to me.

Not sure why people are flirting with a Drew wagon. The VCA in me is not opposed but I just don't get it.

[Titus]

VOTE: Drew

Eventually people are going to noticed CCS is voting for every wagon with momentum and most of them suspiciously so.

Really? He didn't show up in my VCA for last week.

[Titus]

You also still have no opinion on me and make no effort to engage me, yet you have me lower than someone you accused of lying? And you magically convinced Dann is town?

Sort me. I'm right fucking here. This hasn't (mostly) been a game I am afk for IRL. There's enough here. Dumping me lower and lower while "having no opinion" is a cop out.

Your reads don't make sense. Dann foses you but the thread says he's unlimmable so he moves up. Yet there's always a chance I get stuck in trial.

[Titus]

The above post is at Ranger.

[Titus]

VOTE: Snivy

My vote isn’t doing much right now. I fell asleep reading and then I had to work but I’ll try and read today more carefully. I know @Titus you posted some VCA but it was incomplete - I don’t think you considered osuka when they were at E-2, but rather the vote count posted by Datisi which was not at its peak. I’ll have to take a look.

I did use the VCs posted by Datisi. I use those unless something is obviously missing. Please feel free to have me factor in any missing wagons.

Still don't like the CCS wagon.

[Titus]

Will read up tonight.

[Titus]

Why isn't Ranger dead yet? I haven't read this in awhile but we have so many options that are flailing to be anyone else and it's demotivating.

[Titus]

Titus, what do you think of camelCaseSnivy?

!#$?!#

Novice. Bait to save Ranger. Could be weaker scum but an easier to lim player. I still need to read all this claim nonsense from various slots but I'm rather demotivated.

Where's my ball? I want to take it.

I just want Ranger today. Anything else feels like a scam and I'm putting off listening to hours of nonsense elsewhere.

[Titus]

I think it's possible BlueSnakelet acted in a way that didn't line up with his advice to others

if you are town here then I would strongly encourage you to consider the last game we played together where scum!Alisae claimed to be a doc who somehow inexpliecably failed to protect the cop, and you spent a whole lot of time inventing explanations why Alisae might not have been lying thus missing the obvious and true and simple explanation where Alisae was scum.

Ok. That game was hell though, for a lot of reasons.

Can you see from my perspective that Ranger is definitely scum? She moved me down in her reads, first when I voted her, and then when she saw opportunity to wagon me. And then used arguments that apply to my whole game to push me. Do you not see the inconsistency?

For arguments sake.
Let's say Ranger is mafia here. I've got it all wrong.

Who are Ranger's partners?

And if you say i'm her scum partner, get ready for a battle of the ages.

Wrong approach. Find scum. Eliminate scum.

Then ask the partners post flip.

[Titus]

Titus vote CCS

We can come back to Ranger tomorrow

Why? Ranger's reads are transparently who is limmable until she's caught out. I want that dead. CCS flubs and will continue to flub if scum. You get one shot at Ranger.

[Titus]

CCS is just the highest percentage chance red flip right now

And this game needs a red flip imo

If Ranger is town I’m kind of afraid it is disastrous to flip her now

Disagree. It does nothing to solve yesterday. It gives some info today but Ranger is skating here.

It's disasterous to flip any town here. Ranger's not special.

Why is CCS more likely to flip red? Or is it just the red flip you feel is possible?

Save me some reading please. Has anyone claimed?

[Titus]

Why is CCS more likely to flip red?

CCS claimed a babysitter role that requires 110 TPR for two uses, and that BlueSnakelet studied 0% yesterday to accumulate 100 TPR.

In post 233 BlueSnakelet said protectives should get a max of 100 TPR to use (group 2).

this means for CCS to be town and telling the truth, BlueSnakelet either a) planned to give himself more TPR than he said his role should be allowed, or b) wanted to give himself 50 TPR that he would not be able use for no reason

this would not make sense coming from town who posted 233, therefore CCS is lying about BlueSnakelet charging 100 TPR points

This rests precisely on the assumption of which group BS thought himself in. It also supposes that the purpose behind BS's post wasn't control. The player who goes to that length has an overvalued sense of self. BS thinks they're important so is likely to put themselves in a higher group because of them weilding it.

Assuming BS/CCS town, the goal is to stop useless PR activation and 233 does that (if everyone cared to listen. I wouldn't as I don't value roles the same way).

I think BS was just full of themselves.

Then again, eliminate all babysitters is a thing since I played it.

[Titus]

enjoy not having the test answers then

[Titus]

Babysitter is not useless, it's kind of opposite.

You can not act and bait bullet in self, only costing your life (which is beneficial honestly). Or you can act and potentially block it.


None of PRs are useless. Unless they are neighborizers or some negative utility.

Neighborizer is one of the most powerful roles when played correctly.

Babysitter is a giant wifom pit that scum, if skilled enough, can use to navigate the game.

:/

[Titus]

I don't care about the mistake/contradiction.

I care about ccs waiving his roleclaim early and then it being a babysitter.

Then again, voting CCS lets Ranger go and scum would know that I wouldn't like a babysitter claim.

[Titus]

honestly we can not talk about the claim

we can talk about snivy's play too, which is not towny

Details please.

[Titus]

CCS, can I get a readwall from you?

[Titus]

Sorry I got a work emergency. DA pulling a stunt. I'll read up Sunday.

[Titus]

Another new wagon that gives no VCA info and is not Ranger. Boo.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dannfloor

Now a soft guilty is a good reason to vote #notRanger.

[Titus]

Actually, to further bury Dann in the ground. I specifically check if a slot has the ability to remove a player from the game.

It’s the reason Snivy’s claim was town to me. And the reason Andres being vig makes 100% sense. I figured there would be town roles that can kill but a negative check would be a pretty strong clear.

Can you ask the mod whether or not the mafia nightkill specifically counts?

I can't fathom Ranger being town, so I want all bases covered rather than assuming.

[Titus]

Am I crazy to suggest that we lim Ranger for:

A. Yes there are definitely signs of her being scum

B. But piggy backing on that, this kills the noise, which also could be considered scummy. I don't remember her making like post after post after post like this before..... beginning to think it is intentional. At the very least it is becoming anti town and making it tough to follow the game.

Limming Ranger is great but not today. Don't lim probable scum with a ridiculous murky soft innocent over a highly likely guilty. There's always a chance of tunneling wrong.

[Titus]

Ranger, are you making a VCA argument?

[Titus]

I think Ranger is handling getting pushed for basically the entire game pretty well. I feel like at some point it becomes self-fulfilling since a lot of the discourse is like "you failed to really accumulate any momentum for counterwagons besides your own"

I can buy this.

I don't care for Ranger claiming she's a big poster and must be town. The system knows that I used to hyperpost by far and was still scum in those games.

[Titus]

i don’t have the ability to remove anyone from the game so RCE could theoretically confirm my alignment

But you're claiming ascetic lmao

Yeah Dann's lockscum

[Titus]

The system knows that I used to hyperpost by far and was still scum in those games.

My point wasn't "I'm posting, therefore I'm town".

It's that I have the most posts in the game, and if a player can't see

any

town in the top poster...not a problem on the top poster's side.

And this is the issue. You're acting entitled to a townread while spamming lists and from my perspective largely omgusing.

The closest I get to seeing actual thought is the VCA style argument but both Dann and furtiveglance have been against you. The argument you made about Dann and furtiveglance is misguided.

It's not, by itself, a scummy one. It's just a fallacy. Scum!Dann saving scum!furtiveglance is a simple thing that's just easy to appeal to. However, all the "swing" does is say that furtiveglance is

more valuable

to the scumteam. So, the proper conclusion to draw is that furtiveglance's opinions at the time were wrong and that he has 0<scum. The closer CCS and furtiveglance's opinions, the more likely furtiveglance is to be scum.

That is assuming Dann flips scum (near given) and that Dann swung the CCS flip.

[Titus]

I am not reading all of this. There's four different copping theories that I can think of off the top of my head. All that matters is if the check is consistent for them. I'll be reading this later but just annoyed by the mech talk already.

[Titus]

I don't even trust Ranger or her check but this talk sketches me out. All the check tells us (for now) is that Enchant is off the table for today as Ranger claimed a hard cop check as opposed to whatever RCE claims.

[Titus]

Opposed is meaning different, not necessarily a scumclaim. RCE can always walk back the innocent on Ranger by claiming Ranger couldn't kill that night, Ranger is a scum that cannot kill or some other mistake.

It's not as hard. That's the point.

[Titus]

It also leaves open Ranger 3p.

[Titus]

We have a reason for GL to claim. GL has suspicion on him. I think GL's claim will help clear up RCE's claim. It still feels vague to me (leaves open Ranger 3p even in the most powerful interpretation).

I see snivvy, Andres and RCE being gated and Ranger's just a straight up cop. Ranger smells like 3p to me. The claim just feels out of place mechanically.

[Titus]

I don't like I'm agreeing with someone I don't trust, but we get the pieces out and then sort them.

[Titus]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Titus]

Opposed is meaning different, not necessarily a scumclaim. RCE can always walk back the innocent on Ranger by claiming Ranger couldn't kill that night, Ranger is a scum that cannot kill or some other mistake.

It's not as hard. That's the point.

It’s not a by night thing, just a straight check. Scum are multitasking so even if they weren’t actively making the kill I would get the result that they have the potential to.

You're assuming things. I don't think it's a scummy one but I can think of ways around it. Not worth the debate.

[Titus]

I agree. I don't think I'm being clear. I'm not stating certainly that RCE is scum. I can't tell whether he's misguided or scum. I just don't buy Ranger town or Ranger not checking me. It's easy enough to fuck something up.

Still following up with GL is the best move.

[Titus]

I'm not taking Ranger's claim at face up value. I just know the usual plan is you never lim a clear before the cop claim. That's not the same as taking it at face value.

In fact, I have another unique worry about Ranger+Enchant but it requires Ranger to at least scumside.

[Titus]

Moonlogic

We have confirmed PRs that are expensive and some unconfirmed. Where are the extra kill(s) if these claims are town and true?

"besides using SPR points to use their power roles, the mafia has an option of using extra kills for 50 SPR points each."

Now, let's say for a moment your scum team has 49.9999 SPR on Enchant. Clearing Enchant for one day buys an additional kill.

[Titus]

Ranger's just a straight up cop.

Oh I have modifiers. I just see no point in

claiming

them.

I claimed the important part. I'm a cop. I investigate to see someone's alignment. I investigated Enchant, and he's town. I can paraphrase; I can claim modifiers; I can claim percentages; I see no

reason

to reveal that information needlessly, as the important part's Enchant is town.

This is awfully convenient. Almost as if you know you must have modifiers but you can't fake them yet.

[Titus]

I just don't buy Ranger town or Ranger not checking me.

The two are directly related. I disqualified you from my check pool

because

you don't buy me as town. I see no point in conftowning a player who uses that status to try and lim me.

Or you just want to pocket someone and I am not pocketable.

[Titus]

So its p odd to read your posts where like you constantly expect to be mechcleared at this point or something

^^^

It is like the constant post barrage by her is a ploy to just make you accept it.

This. I don't want to touch Ranger's wagon because I don't trust Ranger. We have a very suspicious result on GuiltyLion who has scummy moves. Let's not be browbeat guys.

I mean the VCA is nice but we got that now.

[Titus]

If guiltylion actually is a jail keeper and they could act, not jailing andres is unforgivable and warrants death

This. Andres could study while in jail.

[Titus]

if gl is a jailkeeper and is a wolf we should probably be killing that first tho I think?
That makes massclaim a lot safer

It would.

[Titus]

While Furtiveglance might be scum, there's no reason not to eliminate obvscum GL. Furtiveglance is being offered up to save GL.

1) GL's jailkeep makes no sense as outlined by Enchant and RCE. I'll also add a scum jailkeep would want to target roles that could act. Andres was getting killed so he wouldn't act.
2) We have one protective flipped and 3 "cops". Unless almost all our PRs are outed, someone's lying.
3) GuiltyLion was big on the sail wagon which means if town he should be more aware of his actions.

Let's get the scum PR.

[Titus]

I think we should get all claims out.

While I'm not opposed to furtiveglance I feel it's an offer up to avoid going after the big game.

EE, I largely liked your readwall but Ranger isn't town.

[Titus]

I feel like if I let GL skate andres is gonna punch me in the face in the dead thread VOTE: GL

Ranger can you look through andres’ iso and tell me if his GL case is flawed and how so? I’d really like to be on the same page for elims.

Also we may be in a situation both are caught out as scum which…great if that’s the case but idk.

This really could be the case. I suspect furtiveglance is just weaker than GL.

[Titus]

I think it should be obvious Ranger is scum siding 3p. She's overly invested as being labeled town when 3p are often invest immune and she's overly invested in which slot leaves.

[Titus]

I want to work with Ali and NorwegianboyEE.

[Titus]

Nope. I am thinking furtiveglance is scum but GL or Enchant has an extra kill. If I don't see one soon, I think PRs are fake. No matter the route I take, Ranger is fake.

[Titus]

Nope. I am thinking furtiveglance is scum but GL or Enchant has an extra kill.

????

If the PRs are all real, then we got a lot of spent SPR. So where's the extra kill?

[Titus]

Nope. I am thinking furtiveglance is scum but GL or Enchant has an extra kill.

????

If the PRs are all real, then we got a lot of spent SPR. So where's the extra kill?

Why you say GL or me have extra kill?


Also i would't fire extra kill instantly. I would use it as tool to get majority faster or kill PRs which need to die fast.
I can't really guarantee that mafia thinks same way but they most likely do.

Ranger's protection of you and GL. Ranger has to be fake. I agree scum use the extra kill if it exists.

It doesn't exist = a PR is fake.

The only PR that can be fake is Ranger.

If it's real, then scum panick and protect the person with the kill. The only person fitting that profile is Ranger. Everyone else is on the record as being fine with either wagon.

Given scum likely using the extra kill, we likely have a lying PR.

[Titus]

At this point i seriously considering leaving both alive and voting Titus out instead.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

[Titus]

Just because you benefit doesn't make me wrong.

[Titus]

The only PR that can be fake is Ranger.

Well you're voting me so presumably you think my PR is also fake?

And how are you factoring "scum protecting Ranger" into RCE getting an inno on Ranger?

I forgot you claimed PR a second. Tired brain.

RCE not a "no kill" result on Ranger. That works if 1) Ranger is 3p that cannot kill or 2) Ranger is investigation immune.

Technically, 2 works on Enchant but Enchant was obviously town and a terrible investigation.

[Titus]

I want to work with Ali and NorwegianboyEE.

Hello

Thoughts on my theory?

[Titus]

Dont let Ali bring more people to her side!

You think Ali is scum? Wtf

[Titus]

Dont let Ali bring more people to her side!

You think Ali is scum? Wtf

The only reason Memestar won't vote GL is, and I quote, "Both of my townreads (Dann + GL) can't both be wolves Ali"

I'll try to reach WhemeStar. I had him as town early so maybe he'll come through.

[Titus]

GL is straight up panicking here.

[Titus]

GL is straight up panicking here.

what posts register to you as panic?

that's quite a notably uncharitable way to describe my posts!

You jumping on scumreading me because Enchant and Ranger do.

[Titus]

The reason I think furtive is more likely to be scum than GL is just the claims. A JK makes sense in the context of Dann flipping strongman, right?

I know this isn't a great way to think about it since it's possible the claim is just fake and there's a protective role who hasn't claimed, but idk.

Ari died. She was a doctor + roleblock preventer.

[Titus]

Jailkeeper is also a good defensive PR if you are aligned with the mafia.
If you jailkeep your wolf partner, it means they can't perform the kill.

I wonder how that relates to RCE.

[Titus]

Jailkeeper is also a good defensive PR if you are aligned with the mafia.
If you jailkeep your wolf partner, it means they can't perform the kill.

I wonder how that relates to RCE.

Is RCE's claim known? I haven't rly been paying attention

Rce claimed to investigate Ranger. Result can't kill

[Titus]

btw Titus apparently Memestar has a fos on KKFC but it makes no sense and there is no apparent reasoning behind the read

I feel like this is true of a lot of people but people in general make no sense to me. We should push more to see though.

[Titus]

KKFC the best thing you can do right now is vote with the people who you trust the most

+1 day is getting stale.

[Titus]

this is where i am at

Titus Ranger RCE KKFC Norwee Enchant
Drew
Osuka Dusa
Furtive Wheme
GuiltyLion

Swap Wheme and Osuka, move Dusa up but still under Drew and Ranger down to GL level and there's my reads.

[Titus]

I knew Ranger was lying. I knew she was survivalistic. Now, we know she's not 3p.

So the question becomes: Is Ranger scum that couldn't expel because she was blocked when RCE investigated her or is she town pissed off that she was caught lying?

Her reads were still survivalistic as fuck but she can't be 3p like I thought. So I'd like input from Ali and NorwegianboyEE.

I'd also like furtiveglance to claim his result (if any).

[Titus]

Frankly Ranger, I believe Enchant messaged you but I won't believe the contents of the message unless independently verified. You've been lying all game but you expect us to believe you

now

?

[Titus]

Kkfc, thoughts on Ranger's fakeclaim?

[Titus]

I'm hitting the road and likely start trial on Monday. I'll be watching the thread tonight if I finish work fast enough.

[Titus]

I think it's probably town though. If Enchant messages Ranger, and Ranger is scum, there is no incentive for Ranger to actually kill Enchant, right?

Ranger discredits the theory that she's 3p. There is motive there.

[Titus]

I think it's probably town though. If Enchant messages Ranger, and Ranger is scum, there is no incentive for Ranger to actually kill Enchant, right?

Ranger discredits the theory that she's 3p. There is motive there.

Well, this is only true if RCE is also scum, right?

Not necessarily. If Ranger's scum that could not kill, then RCE's result isn't fake. They could be scum together but that's a real aggressive gambit in a game that is likely role madness.

[Titus]

He also said if he did die to say hi to Norwee.

Is there an implication here?

Yes most likely.

It's also going to set up a fallacy but I am not going to ninja that.

I will crumb my common sense objection with a legal one. Hearsay.

[Titus]

I knew Ranger was lying. I knew she was survivalistic. Now, we know she's not 3p.

So the question becomes: Is Ranger scum that couldn't expel because she was blocked when RCE investigated her or is she town pissed off that she was caught lying?

In the very unlikely event you're town, consider this;
RCEnigma investigated me and has a result indicating I can't kill, indicating I can't be scum.
Enchant was 3p, indicating I can't be 3p.
By process of elimination, if I can't be scum and can't be 3p, I am town.

I was pushing hard for a furtiveglance elimination since midway through D2. I preferred furtiveglance as an elimination over camelCasedSnivy (D2) and GuiltyLion (D4).

I've been pushing

against

eliminations on town every single day phase.

I was the heavy resistance to GuiltyLion's wagon.

What does this all imply, if conftown was pushing for a wagon and then the counterwagon

not supported by conftown

went through on town?

I am working through this with my townreads. Stomaching a scumread when I was right is a hard ask. If you were town and arrogantly wrong on me, then why would I follow you anywhere? You were invested in being seen as right over being right.

[Titus]

You've been lying all game but you expect us to believe you

now

?

Well, Enchant claimed to have targeted Aristeia N2.
Enchant's role contains redacted information; I shared information not public.
Enchant was supporting me all of yesterday.
Since I claimed an innocent on him yesterday, it's safe to say he knew my claim was fake yet supported it anyway.

As for why I'd be believed right now:
If Enchant did message me, I wouldn't give town a double-elimination by killing him if scum.
I have RCEnigma clearing me from being able to kill, implying I'm not scum.
As I'm not scum: does it matter if I'm lying or not? I'm not 3p, and I'm not scum.

I'm telling the truth now though because there's no further benefit to lying. I also accidentally slipped up once about thinking RCEnigma had vanilla copped me.

The only benefit to you lying is we limmed a pr over a supposed vt

[Titus]

Benefit is sarcastic obviously

[Titus]

The only benefit to you lying is we limmed a pr over a supposed vt

Eh, honestly, I will take most of the blame for that. I need to be more decisive with my reads and my play.

Bullshit. You didn't lie and fuck up eveyone's reads from go.

[Titus]

The only benefit to you lying is we limmed a pr over a supposed vt

Nice try. You're trying to blame the GuiltyLion elim on me fakeclaiming when at the time of my fakeclaim,

I was already investigated as town

. My claim was on a slot which by ensuring we got nightkilled,

handed the town an extra elimination

.

There was no supposed VT in the lim pool yesterday and never would be.

The options yesterday were furtiveglance and GuiltyLion.

I, the

player investigated as town

, opposed the GuiltyLion elimination.

Your lies won't sway people into protecting furtiveglance

again

.

If you would have been honest, we lim you instead of ccs. That was my point. You were sus d1 and d2. Yet you cared more about being here from go than honesty if town.

[Titus]

You didn't lie and fuck up eveyone's reads from go.

I'd like to reiterate, I fakeclaimed on

day four

, after I had

already been investigated as town

.

The entirety of my play prior to D4 contains no lie to 'fuck up everyone'.

You're making things up and hoping nobody calls you out on it.

Your first post claimed PR which was a lie.

[Titus]

Ranger, if you're town, you need to accept that you will not be the one to persuade me. You could be a traitor or groupscum that could not kill. The Enchant kill did confirm you were lying and that I was right not to trust you. However, it did disprove my main, but not only theory, that you were scum.

So, the question remains, can you be a traitor or group scum that couldn't kill? A traitor makes sense for an early, unprompted PR claim as people don't lim PRs and they can be protected.

I'd be an idiot to rush and lim furtiveglance before I worked with my townreads to get their opinion of you lying.

We likely lim furtiveglance here but I want to resolve

1) What's furtiveglance's result, if any?
2) Whether it's possible that you could be scum?
and
3) Reset my reads according to the information in the thread.

Calling me scum for knowing your shit stunk is making me want to discard everything. That's my right as a trier of fact. However, it's also my right (and probably smart) to take what I think is true and discard the rest.

I think furtiveglance is scum, so I am not discarding that. However, we're collectively dumbasses if we don't sort everything.

[Titus]

Your first post claimed PR which was a lie.

And then I never was pushed hard enough to warrant claiming.

Given a fakeclaim loses value if it can't be used, I was fully ready to claim if ever placed to L-1. Players could've then debated if they believed my 1x cop which can be upgraded to daycop fakeclaim. I never got to L-1, so I never had a justification to. The closest I ever got was L-2; I looked at all the votes off and saw none of them supported a wagon on me, so I've known the entire game there wasn't support to eliminate me or even threaten it. I'd have popped the fakeclaim if there were. There wasn't.

No. You felt town was doing things wrong. We do thinks wrong with bad information. You put out bad information.

You didn't get pushed to claim territory because people believed your lie not because people thought your play was town. Those voting you were right to do so, as you were lying.

Now, if you had been run up and honest, we could assess your wagon looking for scum.

We can't do that.

[Titus]

hello

i'm strongly entertaining not reading any of this and would appreciate a summary

Furtiveglance near certain scum by VCs and yesterday. Ranger fake claimed post 1 and later on claiming a cop clear on the 3p. RCE has a "can't kill" result on Ranger.

We've limmed a bunch of PRs.

[Titus]

Now, real life calls. Be back later.

[Titus]

Well we have no way to actually prove if Ranger is lying right? We can't really know for sure what Enchant told Ranger.
idunno what to make of this LOL.

Ranger admitted to faking a power role and faking a town result on Enchant (which was proven by the mod flip)....so we have pretty conclusive proof Ranger was lying.

@Cephrir, Everyone scumread furtiveglance but the people who scumread furtiveglance were scummy.

[Titus]

Well we have no way to actually prove if Ranger is lying right? We can't really know for sure what Enchant told Ranger.
idunno what to make of this LOL.

Ranger admitted to faking a power role and faking a town result on Enchant (which was proven by the mod flip)....so we have pretty conclusive proof Ranger was lying.

@Cephrir, Everyone scumread furtiveglance but the people who scumread furtiveglance were scummy.

Should say voted.

[Titus]

For the people who is just saying Ranger is lying, are you just saying that by the nature of "SHE LIED" she is mafia?
Are you saying that villagers would never lie thus Ranger is mafia?
That doesn't make sense to me when she is on an account that has stated herself will lie. Sure, she could be mafia and lying, but if she's town and lying, killing her via day isn't going to change if that was the correct play or not.
I imagine if I was in Ranger's position and I got a message from Enchant trying to ask Ranger to bait Enchant into getting Nightkilled, my first instinct would be to try to figure out what lie does it. It would probably be a poor attempt, but mafia isn't going to guess it's a coordinated play, ms wolves don't rly read into things like that and even if they did it's kinda impossible to identify.

Sure Ranger could be mafia and she killed Enchant for a very specific reason. If we can figure out a reason that works, cool, but until then, I'm going to need more than the surface level "she lied"

1) Liars, unless a non selfish reason is shown, start as mafia.

2) No. Town do lie, but there's a reason beyond I'm better than everyone else.

The Enchant lie is only part of it. Ranger also lied about being a power role before Enchant messaged her. Enchant's death just proved Ranger's original lie was nothing more than self serving.

Ranger's reads have been self-serving.

If Ranger hadn't opened with a PR claim, then the lie on Enchant would have a selfless purpose and thus be neutral. However, Ranger's lie on Enchant was serving a narrative she's been crafting from go.

If you think Ranger's town beyond mech, talk to me. Ranger could be a traitor.

We could also punt Ranger down the road. Make no bones about it, I do not trust people who lie and act like they are better than me. It's insulting.

[Titus]

We're really far behind but we have 2 elims today so if there is any chance of getting a lead back, today is the best day to do it.

I'm fine with mass claim if everyone else is.

We should do it after we flip Furtiveglance. If Furtiveglance flips town, then we know WhemeStar is town. We can then hold his claim to the back to catch out scum.

If Furtiveglance is scum, we'd probably want WhemeStar to claim first as Furtiveglance would have been using his dying breath to push town!WhemeStar.

[Titus]

Did someone innocent rce or is that the front of the chain of invests

I guess it was rce ranger enchant

With a fake link

Rce is probably not scum though he like randomly shaded Dannflor for little need that one time

I agree. If Ranger is scum, she's exactly a traitor.

[Titus]

We're really far behind but we have 2 elims today so if there is any chance of getting a lead back, today is the best day to do it.

I'm fine with mass claim if everyone else is.

We should do it after we flip Furtiveglance. If Furtiveglance flips town, then we know WhemeStar is town. We can then hold his claim to the back to catch out scum.

If Furtiveglance is scum, we'd probably want WhemeStar to claim first as Furtiveglance would have been using his dying breath to push town!WhemeStar.

whats the difference

Confirmed town always go at the back of a massclaim.

This prevents scum from tailoring their claims.

For instance, if Adam says he watched Brian on night 1 and Conftown Charlie CCs him, we get lockscum. However if Conftown Charlie claims first, Adam knows his fake claim would fail.

[Titus]

I guess I'm going to have to read stuff if I want to find out why we need to kill furtive so bad, but if we're going to do it regardless of my opinion then I guess I don't need to bother

Furtiveglance cannot be in elo. No one townreads them. There's no downside mechanically to eliminating furtive here.

[Titus]

I guess I'm going to have to read stuff if I want to find out why we need to kill furtive so bad, but if we're going to do it regardless of my opinion then I guess I don't need to bother

Furtiveglance cannot be in elo. No one townreads them. There's no downside mechanically to eliminating furtive here.

when I see this I think they flip town because that means mafia are also okay with him dying

Fair but I think they are caught. I'm running into the too many PRs problem.

We have 8-3 with two eliminations.

We have RCE as universal town, Ranger as suggested town and a mason claim? from kkfc. If Furtiveglance is town, then we add Whemestar.

_________
If Furtiveglance is town, we reach a 7 versus 3 with 4.5 (.5 is Ranger) universal town.

We get a lim additional. Even if that goes sideways, we have 4 v 3. 3 town alive would be confirmed. It would be elo, but scum MUST scumread partners. It's a great spot.

‐-------

If furtiveglance is scum, we go into an 8 versus 2 with 3.5 known town.

We miseliminate for sake of argument, 7 versus 2. Night kill. 6 versus 2 with 2.5 known town. Scum must pull off two miseliminations.

[Titus]

I guess I'm going to have to read stuff if I want to find out why we need to kill furtive so bad, but if we're going to do it regardless of my opinion then I guess I don't need to bother

Furtiveglance cannot be in elo. No one townreads them. There's no downside mechanically to eliminating furtive here.

It is my job as a game nonreader to be dubious of the accepted truths

Agreed. Scrutinize it. Scrutinize me.

[Titus]

Personal opinion, i find RCEnigma unrealistic as Ranger either limmed/proofs self as PR/be killed and therefore bad check.

Not gonna pressure it today though.

why does this person choose ranger to send a message to

actually why does anyone in his shoes choose a likely nightkill for this

It's totally hearsay. I've ignored it but for the fact Ranger claims to "know" scum had an ability.

[Titus]

going to wait for KKFC to out mason before I post massclaim order

We should have RCE pick the first person and do popcorn to the most suspicious left.

[Titus]

going to wait for KKFC to out mason before I post massclaim order

We should have RCE pick the first person and do popcorn to the most suspicious left.

You want me to name my partner before massclaim?

No.

[Titus]

I like popcorn better but no one ever does it. The order is fine.

Ranger claimed vt btw.

[Titus]

Seems like Wheme is afk. I expect to start a trial Thursday. RCE do you want me to claim first or last?

[Titus]

I wish we didn't have to massclaim, but here it is. I'll lay out my strategy as well as that should help a lot come into focus.

I am a universal back up. Flavor: Psychology Freshman. Ability: Can i try? Cost is variable.

I can use the ability of any dead town player at double the cost in their PM. I have done 25 SPR 75% studying. I have 100 SPR at the moment. I did studying this way to slowly gather strength for later on. I wanted to study a lot early in case VTs or useless PRs were eliminated early, even if it sacrificed using OP abilities later on. SPR to scum are assigned via an average. Getting a lot of SPRs early would hand scum kills with nothing to show.

Andres role is straight up out of reach without handing scum a kill (it would cost 300 SPR. I don't know if RCE's would be. Knowing his SPR would be useful to me, but only me, at this point so if he refuses to claim so be it. The only reason I say RCE's is useful is that I suspect he would be the next killed. I'd like to have just enough SPR to use his ability but limit extra kills going to scum. If it's more than 150 just say no. I have enough SPR to pick an action.

If we waited to have massclaim until one scum alive, I could have sprung that on them then. Yet, that's not possible given the situation and the nature at large.

I have zero concern over eliminating scummy PR "claims" because I could inherit them if honest. Early users tend to be lower SPR cost, which means I could scoop up their ability late.

So that means I get the luxury of hard pressing bullshit claims (or claims that look to be bullshit, sorry GL).

[Titus]

Ffs.

I made an error. I am on virtually no sleep and I've been preparing for trials. The intent of the post is clear and you're focused on a gotcha game.

[Titus]

This game was so townsided. More clears than scum. Punished for finding 3p. Lose extra kill if wrong player gets eliminated. We had no shot.