Game of Thrones

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SO GOOD.

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I hadn't read the books and didn't have any trouble following it, Reck.

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I feel sorry for anyone who didnt know about game of thrones until it became an (overrated) tv show.

I knew about it; I just didn't care for it. Not enough to get past a few chapters in at least.

But the show is A++.

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Yeah, I was very impressed with a lot of the casting actually. Cersei for example felt much more sympathetic in the tv show, than the novel.

I think this is partly because show!Catelyn is kinda annoying, so her rival!foil looks better by comparison. I hear she's less annoying in the books.

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Who do we think is the cute one: Jon or Robb?

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Really? Gosh. She must be a pretty annoying character in the novel. O_O

My friends who like the book series say that her portrayal is their least favorite, though they don't have particularly negative feelings about anyone.

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I think the Sansa actress is pretty awful. Her only facial expression is "pout," and it's always obvious when they have to edit her correcting her lines into all of her scenes.

Arya's actress is AWEEEEEEEESOME even though she's like 10. Helps that the character is A++, though. She also reminds me of my little cousin.

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The line from her that sticks out for me as being a really bizarre acting choice is in episode 3 where she tells her father she doesn't like the doll he bought her. The point of the scene (I thought) was to emphasize that Ned has trouble relating to his older daughter (e.g. based on the subsequent lines the other actors had, the contrast with the following scene with Arya leading to his decision to let her take sword lessons). But the effect was mainly that Sansa was an awful brat. I think scenes like this could be played more sympathetically.

In fairness to her, though this also speaks to her acting ability, her face during that scene looked almost embarrassed, but not at the dolls -- rather, that the director was asking her to make that choice for the character rather than herself.

I did like how she did the direwolf scene in episode 2 pretty well, though.

From what I know of Sansa's character arc, though, it seems like she's meant to be a Woobie of sorts, so maybe the pouting will serve her well.

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LADY didn't BITE any1 she's GUD.

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TVTropes Reference.

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Yeah, I really WANT to like Sansa's character.

And I've already spoiled myself for the entire series sooooo ye.

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That's true; I think the very last episode was pretty good. We also got to see her attempt to be a little bit of a badass with her foiled assassination routine.

I can't help it. I spoil everything I like for myself.

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She only said "I haven't played with dolls since I was 7" and then excused herself

I'm not questioning the writing; I'm questioning the delivery.

He also just killed her wolf, so it's cool that she's upset at him.

This would actually explain the actresses's choices well. It didn't occur to me because it isn't brought up and it was actually months ago in flavor, though.

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Neat. I guess they smoothed it over the subtext for the show because they want to help explain why Ned lets Arya take sword lessons.

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I like how page 6 has no fewer than *THREE* Arya avatars.

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The world has the things you describe, but they are rare and sometimes lost at the time the story starts.

I agree about the Catelyn sidequest; very dull. Thank god for Tyrion doing his best to keep things going.

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It annoyed me because it made her seem totally inept, cowardly, and unsympathetic. I understand the relevance to the plot, though you could place the blame at earlier stages, too, I think.

(or Catelyst if you'll allow)

<3

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I think the scene where she arrests Tyrion was pretty badass and led to both Catelyn and Tyrion getting +like points.

The cowardly part was later when she was in her sister's castle. Even though Tyrion had just contributed to saving her life and she seemed to have some doubt about his guilt, she was unwilling to stand up to her sister, even in private.

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Arya is a badass.

I'm OK with Sansa and Robb.

Jon is a let-down so far. They need to get him naked ASAP.

Ned is kind of boring IMPE. Bran and the baby, too.

Poor Cate.

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The gay knight beats Jaime and the Mountain in jousting. Yay for gays. I also have a big crush on Renly.

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Ohhhhhh just you wait.

It's a deconstruction of the same.

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I love Jaime and Arya.

Don't forget Stannis (gay dude's big bro)! That's at least 4 claimants. ^^~

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Does Melisandre show up in the next book, too? She does, right?

Wonder who they'll get for her and Stannis...

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The hallway in DTM's avatar reminds me of the hallways from the original Doctor Who's first Dalek serial.

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Jaime is secretly a sweetheart. That's why you're perceiving mixed signals.

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I think Arya already starts to subvert that stereotype in the first book/season when she

kills the kid

.

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They're already cast?

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Tyrion is hot.

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I LOOOOVE Summer Glau.

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What's not to like?

My favorite is her role in Dollhouse.

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I think it's mainly that Whedon shows get canceled.

She didn't get Angel canceled, for example. Not that she had any kind of significant role.

Which reminds me that I also love Amy Acker.

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She ignores Tyrion's warning about her sister. Then she doesn't follow through on her insistence that Tyrion is "her prisoner" and not to be harmed. Then she fails at securing a Tully/Stark alliance in spite of a blood relationship.

That's unsympathetic-cowardly-inept.

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I'm basing my perspective on the series. I personally have no recollection of her leading them off-track (sounds vaguely familiar, but I'd forgotten, at any rate), and the series doesn't make it clear that they're genuinely across the Rubicon re: sister-visiting.

She doesn't have to have a physical solution to the problem, and I wouldn't expect her to. That doesn't mean she couldn't go for the intrigue angle, which I think the series, at least, tries to emphasize is her strength. For example, she could appeal to people who know her in the city, or turn on the maternal angle with the coddled kid, etc.

I'm talking about an alliance with Tully, not Frey. The series has an episode where her sister declares intent to be Switzerland because she wants to keep her son safe. Or is Tully subordinate to Frey? If so, the series didn't make that clear AFAICR.

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Ah, OK. I was under the mistaken impression that Tully were the lords of the Vale. Your clarification makes a little more sense, because it's now clear that Catelyn probably had relatively few contacts in Arryn-world, since she presumably grew up in Tully-world.

That said the show doesn't have her working her diplomat/peacekeeper magic very aggressively in that whole scene (mostly out of self-preservation given how crazy and erratic her sister was AFAICT --> ergo, cowardice) BUT w/e.

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Agree 100% that the capture was well-executed. The lack of political connections in the Vale also explains a lot of her other behavior. I wish it'd been clearer in the show. Ah well.

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You can go back a step to "Jamie throws Bran out the window" "at Cersei's behest," too.

Forbidden love started the war.

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Oh, yeah, that, too.

But Catelyn already had her suspicions, and that comment wasn't too far off the mark from what I've read.

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Yeah, that's what I was PMing you about.

But I don't think Littlefinger was aware of the source.

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ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS

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Lady survived. ^^

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I LOVE BRIENNE.

Is Claus's safe to highlight?

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Who are the 3 men that could best Jaime in combat? Barristan and the Cleganes maybe?

I had assumed that one of them was Loras, who beat Jaime in a tournament, which creates dramatic irony because we know that Brienne beat Loras in an earlier scene. I haven't read the books, though.

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Loras is an excellent swordsman

Brienne fucking cheated with her mace shit

Loras cheats with his horny horse.

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Loras probably needs a scene of exposition, and they'll probably want to touch on Tyrion.

I'm a little disappointed that we STILL haven't seen Dany play in the House of the Undying (I guess that'll be basically all of the next episode?), but I'd rather they left her out than had her talk about going there without going there for the 5th consecutive episode.

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The scene where Joffrey is trying to decide to leave to the Red Keep or not was really good, I felt quite sympathetic towards him as after all he is still just a boy, and the worry and fear he was feeling was really well conveyed.

I agree with this as originally written. Joffrey seemed to even understand the importance of his being there, and he tried to evaluate whether he really needed to go. Even when he did go, he tried to mitigate the costs by giving the orders to his guards. All things being equal, and Cersei's reasons unclear, he decided to run off. If I didn't know better, I'd think Tyrion's berating all season was starting to have an effect on him.

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I think hair color can serve as a way to remind the viewer who's related to who, even in the absence of plot relevance. They're doing a decent job with this IMO.

Theon doesn't have black hair, so that may have something to do with it.

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Well, Sansa has redder hair than Arya, and Robb has lighter hair than Jon.

Renly definitely should've been bigger. He was cute, though, so I forgive them.

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Rhaegar + Lyanna is the most obvious choice, and one of the less boring ones IMPO.

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Rhaegar+Lyanna is so heavily foreshadowed that there has to be a twist.

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Some of the heavy R+L foreshadowing is only heavy because of internet communities. For example, I doubt a normal reader would make the connection that because Jon looks like Arya, Lyanna is his mother.

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Also, we're using the GoT thread again. ^^~

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Some of the heavy R+L foreshadowing is only heavy because of internet communities. For example, I doubt a normal reader would make the connection that because Jon looks like Arya, Lyanna is his mother.

Except Arya is never really said to look much like Lyanna. She's always said to look like Eddard, which requires no explanation. In fact, in one of Jon's POV chapters, he remarks that he thinks on of the reasons Catelyn dislikes him so much is because Jon looks far more like Eddard than Robb, Bran, or Rickon do.

Your first sentence is incorrect, though I don't doubt that she also is said to look like Ned. Here's a quote (found on a R+L tumblr via google):

“Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave.”

Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. “Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes.

You even look like her

.”

“Lyanna was beautiful,” Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya. “She was,” Eddard Stark agreed, “beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time.”-GRRM, A Game of Thrones

It makes sense that most other characters would focus on the Eddard resemblance over the Lyanna resemblance, being that Lyanna has been dead for 10+.

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Jaqen is hot IMO. Too bad his face changed.

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Lyanna: SAY HE IS YOUR OWN TO KEEP HIM SAFE, NED. PROMISE ME.

Ned: THO IT WOUND MY HONOR, I WILL DO AS YOU SAY, SISTER.

(Lyanna dies.)

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I think Shae is changed around a bit in the show. I wouldn't be surprised if SoS concluded differently re: her.

Also, SoS will be 2 whole seasons.

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Spoiler:

Yeah, I think RW will be Season 3. The writers said that "A very important scene that made us want to make this show" will appear in the first half.

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I haven't been able to see the 2nd season yet.

Don't you have HBO Go?

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Just saw the episode. SO GOOD IMO.

All the Margaery parts were the best. I also really liked Joffrey's scenes (or rather, his role in the Margaery scenes). I don't know if the current Joffrey/Margaery dynamic happens in the books, but it's very cool.

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Spoiler:

Cersei REALLLLY hates Margaery in the books. In the show, it seems like Cersei's dislike of Margaery might partially be because she's jealous of Joffrey's respect (!!!) for her, but I don't know if we see any of that in the books.

All the Book 3 Lannister content is through Sansa's eyes or Tyrion's, so we don't get Cersei/Margaery scenes.

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What did other people make of Joffrey's attitude toward Margaery in this episode? Are they going to try humanizing Joffrey this season?

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What did other people make of Joffrey's attitude toward Margaery in this episode? Are they going to try humanizing Joffrey this season?

Joffrey's character

will die on this season

, its the spoiler from book

It's not clear whether that will happen this season or next season, but yeah, I'm aware of that.

It's kind of a separate question from the direction the writers of the show are taking with the character, though.

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What season will Muh Dragunz come to Westeros?

Most likely

Season 7.

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The story was originally conceived as a trilogy where books 2-5 were all book 2.

There are some important Westeros characters who are in Essos with her before that point.

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I think the official plan atm is 8 seasons.

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Gosh, ArcAngel, lern2spoilertab.

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There are plenty od deviations with character growth/characters being basically different. Look at littlefinger. He's severely dumbed down for TV.

Oh?

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I was asking for elaboration. I can see where you're coming from.

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I know the plot trajectories of all the characters. As I understand it, Littlefinger doesn't take off until mid-late Book 3.

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Spoiler:

I think that also happens in the show, due to his role in Ned's capture IIRC, though I can't remember for certain.

EDIT: Nope, it's for securing the alliance with the Tyrells.

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So I just watched it. I liked it! I agree with whoever that there weren't a whole lot of "fist pump" moment, but that's to be expected: the first episodes need to set up the later stuff.

I cackled with glee whenever Margaery opened her mouth to say something passive-aggressive.

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Baelish is fine in the show, but Varys kinda steals the spotlight IMO.

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SO GOOD. AS USUAL.

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I laughed aloud at everything Olenna said and half the Jaime/Brienne things. It must've been unsettling.

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Agreed. The Shae scene was superfluous. She also seemed out-of-character with her teasing.

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Yeah, that was a little strange. I guess the Freys all left the army? I didn't remember our seeing that yet.

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Are the deleted scenes good, or are the documentaries and stuff good?

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I tend to hate commercial Blu-Ray releases because they insist on putting like 2 episodes on each Blu-Ray for reasons I cannot fathom.

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No, I prefer watching everything digitally so I don't have to worry about changing the disc every 2 hours.

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But fancy exclusive content can sometimes be worth the cost!

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Spoiler:

Has he officially confirmed the real parents?

I'm assuming we're talking about Lyanna and Rhaegar?

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I guess that means there's not going to be an untwist after all.

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My dad read the books, and Dany's his favorite.

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Well, he's actually only on Book 3, come to think of it, so maybe that explains it.

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Similarly, my mother likes Jon Snow best because she assumes that he's the Hero.

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Do Jojen and Bran have a slashy thing happening in the books, too?

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Slash is when same-sex characters have heartfelt exchanges with dialogue or context that would set-up romantic subtext if the characters were opposite-sex. The origins of the term was Star Trek Kirk/Spock fan-fiction from the 1970s.

Jojen doing his YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON TO ME or whatever talk is an example of this.

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Basically he's a royalbrat from another house and he has a psychic connetion with Bran among other le mystical powerz and he and his sister were looking for him because they want to help the Starks @_@?

OTP

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I am very impressed with the will-power of nerds who somehow have come to this point and do not know how the entire story goes.

The only storyline I don't really already know the conclusion to is Bran's, and only because it's everyone's least-favorite.

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Another great episode.

Very excited for Olenna to do something wily next week.

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I didn't even make the connection with the Pod stuff. "Are they extorting him...?" etc. I didn't understand that there was no subtext until I read about it afterward.

This is the first time Dany has really seemed like a very strong leader to me.

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I agree with Tierce, too.

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Tyrion's scenes with Podrick felt that way to me, but not his scene with Tywin.

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GREAT. Dany is particularly great this season.

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I thought Podrick actually DIDN'T have a massive cock, but was just a sex god? Maybe I heard it wrong, since multiple people seem to have heard differently?

I loved the scene where Joffrey told Margaery about the Targaryns women being eaten alive by dragons with fanboy-sadist glee.

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I think it's not Loras in the book because Loras is in the Kingsguard, so Loras can't inherit.

EDIT: Spoiler'd by request.

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...How on earth is that a spoiler? There is no context whatsoever. I might as well "spoil" that Loras is a Tyrell.

Whatever, fine.

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I think episode 4 remains the top episode of the season, but this was still another very good episode. I think it's been the best season yet so far.

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I liked Shireen a lot.

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Lena wasn't given much to do this episode, but I liked her "please don't make me do it again" with Tywin. Poor Cersei.

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Yeah, Littlefinger's scenes were Fridge Brilliance to me.

To stop Sansa from hooking up with Loras, he made Tywin aware of the plot, hoping to have him put her into a less desirable situation so that she would decide to leave with him.

I don't know whether Littlefinger is directly implicated in this particular plot in the books, but I liked how it was implied to have worked out here, and they even did it in a way that had him use his TV-version resources.

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Presuming this season ends with the weddings or maybe Stannis at the wall, I don't see how next season could be better unless they draw considerably from Feast/Dragons. The only other stuff I can think of are the circumstances with Oberyn.

Sorry, thought this was the book thread.

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I don't think they can drag out Robb's plot for that long. I think it might be coming sooner.

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Maybe they thought she wouldn't look imposing enough?

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Season 5: About the first half of Feast *and* Dance
Season 6: About the second half of Feast *and* Dance

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I've always wondered how they're going to handle Feast/Dance, actually.

Season 5: About the first half of Feast *and* Dance
Season 6: About the second half of Feast *and* Dance

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I always like the Littlefinger/Varys scenes a lot.

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I'm curious as to whether Mel is going to

kill Gendry, have sex with Gendry, or both.

Mild implication-y spoilers just for tonight's episode.

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It has not been confirmed AFAIK, but it doesn't really tell you much provided we remain on a first-name basis with him.

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If you don't realize who Boy is, you haven't been paying attention.

It's obvious to people who have read the books. It is not necessarily obvious to someone who has not read the books. In the show, we don't even know that his character exists.

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If you don't realize who Boy is, you haven't been paying attention.

It's obvious to people who have read the books. It is not necessarily obvious to someone who has not read the books. In the show, we don't even know that his character exists.

Actually, you do. He has been mentioned, by "title" if not by name.

Yeah, but that was just an easter egg to book-readers. Show-watchers wouldn't read into that particular line.

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I do remember the first one cropping up, now that you mention it.

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I don't see a storyline coming out of a sansa and tyrion marriage.

Littlefinger just wants Sansa to despair so that she'll run away with him.

Spoiler-censored for no real reason.

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I found the speculation someone posted about making Ros into a

Dontos composite

more compelling.

(Spoiler'd for coloring expectations for a characer/plot event that may or may not occur on the show.)

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I'm saving you a headache... Just stop watching Dexter after season 4

Honestly Season 4 wasn't even

that

good on rewatch. Trinity was compelling the rest was flat out bad. (like literally ever side story). But yeah.

Season 7 was fantastic, though.

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His poor choices feel less justified given that he has aged up.

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Dany continues to be great this season.

I also enjoyed the Ygritte/Jon scenes.

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If you type "Theon and Ramsay" into google, the first suggestion is "Theon and Ramsay slash."

LOL.

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Has everyone seen the Gay Of Thrones synopses? I mostly find them offensive and not funny, but the summary of Episode 4 includes a very memorable moment.

[Iecerint]

Well I mean blue balls are no fun. Owowowowow.

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Still hate Robb, with more hate for his girl (I don't understand, am I even supposed to like her? For what?)

She has a pretty good girlbutt.

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This whole season has been pretty much constant 10/10s.

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I was kinda confused by the Mel scene. She went on about lambs and knives, and then she just bled him a little.

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I think people are pointing out that the show has a history of knocking down characters that are doing well, re: Dany.

[Iecerint]

They're showing the Liberace movie next week in the GoT time-slot IIRC.

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Cersei hasn't had a lot of strong moments this season, so her scene with Margaery stood out.

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I'm following the mockingbird now.

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Someone also mentioned, maybe in the other thread, that it would also

Spoiler:

lend all the Beric/Thoros stuff a bit more relevance.

[Iecerint]

I liked the Tyrion/Sansa scene.

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I thought Yara's scene was kind of mediocre. I liked Balon's lines as a foil to Tywin's speech to Tyrion, but Yara's response seemed out of character for her, and the "journey" music they played during it made it seem like the writers understood this, too, and were trying to make up for it.

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She might have a little bit of familial loyalty to Theon, but I don't think she has enough of it to justify endangering her best men like that.

I would have bought it more if her speech had been about showing their enemies that it was unwise to mess with their family rather than about wanting to save her little brother.

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It looks like she's playing into Ramsay's hands AFAICT.

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I don't think Pycelle really cares about Tyrion either way; he's just a sycophant and knows who has the power right now.

[Iecerint]

You're probably right. They're sort of all mean to Tyrion except for Varys, though.

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And I'm confused why she didn't just throw some ninja stars at everybody. She could have taken all the Freys out herself if she'd have just used some ninjutsu.

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Tyrells are my second-favorite after the Martells.

[Iecerint]

One of the main two writer dudes has very shapely facial hair. It looks goofy.

[Iecerint]

Ohhhh she IS Suzie from Torchwood! Was wondering what I recognized her from.

[Iecerint]

Nice Siouxsie cover.

[Iecerint]

I thought the scene with Cersei and Jaime was very weak. She seemed totally out of character from how we've seen her behave on the show in the previous several seasons.

[Iecerint]

The rest was great, though.

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She never gave the impression that her cousin was anything other than a Jaime surrogate AFAICR.

It's apparently not as jarring in the book because you don't get any Cersei POV, so Cersei being a bit of a bitch is just par for the course.

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You don't get Cersei POV until Feast for Crows.

[Iecerint]

I didn't like Ramsay's stuff in S3, but I liked his scene with Roose in this episode.

[Iecerint]

Wow.

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Women have analogous anxieties about having asymmetrical boobs or small boobs or whatever.

Or so I hear.

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I was most OK with this week's Jaime/Cersei interactions relative to similar scenes earlier in the season. I think what the viewer is supposed to glean from all of their interactions this season is that their relationship is completely destructive to Jaime. Or that's the intent.

I loved the Missandei/Greyworm, Tommen/Margaery, Sansa/Baelish, and Olenna/Margaery scenes.

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The book cannon is the book cannon. Show cannon is show cannon.

p.s. - When the fuck are we going to see what's-her-name Greyjoy again? She was supposed to attempt to find and rescue

Theon

Reek? We're like halfway through the season and they haven't mentioned them at all since last season's finale. Blah.

I suspect that

Ramsay is going to run into her. Bolton just sent Ramsay+Reek to Moat Cailan a few episodes ago.

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I'm not sure what you mean. The Sansa pacing is finally starting to pick up after 4 seasons.

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Hmm? I think she's still in Storm of Swords territory.

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The ironborn

running from puppies

was the only lame part.

Like, I understand that it is rational, but it both didn't make sense that they would be able to get away, and it seemed out of character that

puppies

would make them run away given what we know about them.

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Yeah

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They're also drawing from Books 4 and 5 a bit. Different plotlines are at different points in the books.

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And RIP Mountain, that cunt.

GOD DAMN IT YOU BOOK READERS AND YOUR SPOILERS

Spoiler:

Also lol. It was preeeettty clear that Mountain died. That was part of the whole point... That Oberyn HAD WON but then was too proud/shortsighted to accept his victory. The mountain didnt even care about life at that point, it was like Tyrion's cousin's beetles. He just wants to smash people, his life is otherwise mostly empty.

whoa symbolism

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Yeah, pretty boring episode. I guess they wanted to delay Stannis

because it would make it almost exactly the same as Blackwater

.

Jon does something similar to this in the books too IIRC.

[Iecerint]

I just watched this whole show in a week.

gj

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Tbh Cersei has been disappointing in s4.

She's focused all of her hilarious spite towards being one dimensional on a rampage to kill tyrion by hating him to death.

[Iecerint]

I was wondering how they were going to do [includes book spoilers for Book 3]

the stuff about Tysha and the scene with Shae

.

It turns out that the former wasn't done at all and the latter was just kind of awkward, though it still made me sad.

Good episode, though.

[Iecerint]

yeaaaah just caught up with the last two episodes

the

revelation about tysha and the aftermath

was the thing I was most looking forward to and they godamn cut it

the brienne+hound fight was damn fantastic but the episode could have been SO DAMN AMAZING and blaggggggh

Spoiler: Book spoilers ramble

Like I know that the TV audience probably doesn't know and/or remember about Tysha but its why Tyrion does like everything he does in the 5th book and Tywin being so godamn callous about it I think shows Tywin's nature so much better than the final "you're not my son" line (and also wherever whores go is a fantastic line aaaand Tyrion killing him because he won't stop calling his legitimate wife a whore is so much more justified)

I think they're just going to use

guilt about Shae

for that instead.

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Wasn't Tyrion supposed to give a line about seeing if he actually shat gold?

I think that would be very hard to pull off with the right tone in this medium. I'm kinda glad it didn't go that way here, although I am frustrated about the lack of Tysha talk.

I haven't decided yet whether I'll watch season 5 when it happens next season. We're reaching a point where there are bound to be more 'future book' spoilers next year and, with some of my frustrations in their adaptational choices growing this season, I increasingly suspect that I'm going to want to double down and make sure I get everything from GRRM first. I don't think it's been a poor season at all and I've enjoyed a lot of it but it's been distracting more than before.

I dont know if GRRM has talked about what he has told the show's producers about the future of ASOIAF, but I doubt he would allow any future book spoilers to bleed into the show.

I think the whole "White Walker king" thing is just an adaptation of the show and that it is not based on future book events, but that's just my opinion.

I think

the Night's King == Coldhands -> account for the absence of Coldhands elsewhere.

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The Night's King

has literally only been confirmed on the show...that is show material only at this point.

[Iecerint]

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-be ... e-thrones/

The only really valid item on this list is the point about the cost of production AFAICT. They've already said they'll finish even if the last books aren't written, the characters are all older on the show so the "omg Bran is 7" point is not even accurate, and the last claim ignores that splitting the POVs was not done for artistic reasons in the books, anyway.

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Arya and Tyrion are probably the best characters on the show.

Am I the only one who felt completely indifferent to both those characters in both media?

You're probably in the minority.

[Iecerint]

They're relatable misfits with hearts of gold or bronze or something like that who grow believably as characters as the series progresses.

I like Varys and Littlefinger a lot, too, but they're pretty minor characters.

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Nothing in Aegor's post hasn't happened on the show.

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Well, I guess it could be a spoiler that

Arya actually makes it to Braavos, given her luck upon reaching destinations up to this point

.

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I think the community-determined guidelines for discussing the book in this thread were actually hammered out somewhere early on in the thread; I'm not sure of the page. The idea is that people who only watch the show should be able to look at spoilered content without Season 5 being spoilered (i.e., they would perceive that they are safe from spoilers if they're all the way caught-up).

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Yes there are characters I'm rooting for (Tyrion, Arya, Ros, the prostitute who is in it for no reason and I think I've fallen in love with, Robb, I guess...) but overall I found a lot of characters dull, (just all of the wall, Ned, Sansa) or got wearing after a while (Joffrey, Robert, Jamie, Cersei, naked dragon girl, who at least looks promising come series 2).

Is the prostitute phrase an appositive describing Ros, or are you describing Shae?

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Guys it's tomorrow omg.

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I like the changes.

My only complaint is that some early seasons have plot threads.

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I watched the first four episodes last night and wowza.

I feel like I need an online spoiler mill to exchange spoilers with and there is no one to comfort me.

See you in a month. D:

[Iecerint]

Spoiler: Spoiler For People who haven't read the books

So is Aegon gone 5ever?

Probably, alongside

Zombie Cat, Arianne, not-Arya, lots of Eyrie adventures, and Pyke

.

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Spoiler:

My guess is that

Stannis will take Winterfell as described and Sansa will join Jon at the wall.

I predict that Melisandre will assassinate Ramsay while he is raping Sansa or something, to account for Sansa's reference to something really traumatic that happens to her. She wanted to do this with Jon-juice, though, so not sure how she's going to manage it now.

Don't read if you haven't seen the 4 episodes.

[Iecerint]

I'm so excited for new Gay of Thrones tomorrow. ^_^

[Iecerint]

It's been described as DVD quality. It looked OK I think.

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Oh wow, I didn't even recognize him.

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This episode was quite good. Really looking forward to seeing if

Sansa picks up the threads of the likely abandoned LSH plot

about which I know basically just barely enough to have been disappointed that S4 didn't end with it.

You think

Beric and Thoros

will end up with her?

[Iecerint]

I don't know/remember who those people are Iec, so probably not

I've just heard something along the lines of

LSH being zombie Cat going around exacting revenge on people, and I think the brotherhood without banners was involved?

and so I figured

maybe Sansa would exact revenge on the same people just without the zombie part and I'm hoping that includes the Boltons

. I've already heard

she hasn't left the Vale

in the books. So basically I'm just trying to make guesses of where the show's going based on little snippets of book spoilers and book differences I hear.

I just want to foolishly hold out hope that I'll see

vengeance for the Starks

happen, dammit

Beric and Thoros are the guys from Season 3. Beric fought the Hound and Thoros would bring him back to life.

In the books,

they find Cat and Thoros brings her back to life. Their resurrection thing sets-up Zombie Cat=LSH

. In the show, Beric and Thoros are a loose plot thread, so I thought you meant they would join Sansa somehow to avoid just being a loose end.

[Iecerint]

Mountain in the books

Is supposed to be dead. I will be unhappy if they turn him into a frankenstein

Yeah yeah whatever the books don't matter anyways, but I reserve the right to complain!

You're actually mistaken about that, though maybe not in the obvious way.

Mountain's situation

is pretty similar in the book and show.

[Iecerint]

Mountain in the books

Is supposed to be dead. I will be unhappy if they turn him into a frankenstein

Yeah yeah whatever the books don't matter anyways, but I reserve the right to complain!

You're actually mistaken about that, though maybe not in the obvious way.

Mountain's situation

is pretty similar in the book and show.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear in the books that

Robert Strong is the reanimated corpse of Gregor being controlled by the necromancer.

Right.

[Iecerint]

hi pacman.

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Ya his father was

Coldhands

.

D:

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Yeah, the whole Dorne plot seems really one-dimensional right now. I was hoping we would get scenes of Myrcella feeling like Dorne is her home in some really important sense by now, but I guess we won't get them if Suzie-From-Torchwood-and-friends want to kill her.

The end of the episode is fine. Dany has enough ancillary characters around her to do whatever they want with her plotline. It's frustrating that the function of that event in the story is basically to lazily establish Sons of the Harpy as a legitimate threat. I don't think it's that effective because they're still literally faceless. It's hard to root against something so depersonalized. We need to have had some kind of scene with the actual Harpy leader, but I don't know how they're going to make the Harpy leader compelling beyond "I want my slaves back," whereas complex villains are everywhere in Westeros.

Sansa's plotline is definitely my favorite part of the show right now, and not just because I'm not sure how it will end.

[Iecerint]

but Obara's monologue was TERRIBLE

[Iecerint]

I noticed that one of Cersei's scenes was slightly edited (I think?) based on what was leaked before. I was really hoping the monologue would be edited, too.

[Iecerint]

This was an excellent episode. Even without a lot of action, a ton of stuff happened and a lot of plotlines were advanced.

I like how 100% of the Next Time were of plot lines we didn't see, but they were all plotlines that I didn't notice being absent.

[Iecerint]

Nope, looks like Gryff+JonCon+Quentyn+Victarion+literally anybody else that should be in Essos are just getting wrapped into Jorah's arc

I could see them do Iron Islands stuff next season if they can consolidate enough POVs this season. For example, it looks like Tyrion+Dany and Stannis+Sansa+Jon+Brienne+Boltons have the potential to be consolidated nicely, which could free up space for introducing them. There's a plot-hole right now with Stannis using red magic to kill Balon way back in Season 3, which admittedly is long enough ago to drop if they want, but I think they can make space if they want to. The only issue would be getting Victarion where he needs to be quickly enough.

Bran will come back, though, so that's also something. Though I could see him showing up at a pivotal moment to save the day rather than being a POV from the get-go.

[Iecerint]

The current Winterfell plot is definitely the best part.

[Iecerint]

It feels like that part of Baldur's Gate where you go back to Candlekeep.

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There's a plot-hole right now with Stannis using red magic to kill Balon way back in Season 3, which admittedly is long enough ago to drop if they want, but I think they can make space if they want to.

Speculation: I'm pretty sure in the books it is hinted that Balon is actually killed by

a faceless man.

Can you think of any reason why they would wait to show that until after season 5?

Speculation: I had heard that the books imply he was killed by

Euron

, but I just know wiki book stuff. I guess the two hints aren't incompatible really.

[Iecerint]

My inference was that Stannis didn't particularly love his love, and his relationship with her and sex with her was just related to his belief in order and duty and so on. But I guess there's no discussion of concubines for him really other than Melisandre, with whom sex has another purpose, so.

[Iecerint]

I want Sansa, Shireen, and Dany to rule the world and make it into a sapphic paradise.

[Iecerint]

But

he killed Joffrey

He is literally the best

yeah after ruining the starks :c

Are his motives for causing the original instability ever clarified?

[Iecerint]

Not accounting for Joffrey makes sense.

[Iecerint]

Jon Snow is still boring; he just briefly had some interesting people around him.

[Iecerint]

It looks like Sam's plotline

about going to the Citadel

is probably cut.

[Iecerint]

The characters involved in that plotline are all around, but I don't see Sam getting his own POV there.

Rhinox's idea about doing the Iron Islands next season is more likely if we're going to imagine a cut plot sneaking back on.

[Iecerint]

I really loved Sansa's scene with Myranda, and I loved finally seeing Myrcella, though the Sand Snake confrontation itself was a lot of nothing. I also liked that stuff got serious in Cersei's plotline.

The only thing I wasn't crazy about was the ending scene. The people I was watching it with thought Theon would interfere, but I think this was actually setting us up for Theon to interfere in a subsequent scene and redeem himself.

But I thought the Myranda scene had already prepared us to have Sansa do something clever on her own.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, it was awesome to see Olenna. It's nice to have her as a counterpoint to Cersei and Dany.

What did people object to other than the very last scene?

Pedit: I thought Arya's plot finally felt like it was going somewhere. I imagine she'll run into Mace and Meryn in 2 episodes.

I enjoyed this Tyrion scene more than all the other ones basically. The call-back to Lord Mormont was nice, mainly. I also find it interesting to see how Tyrion reacts when he sees mystical things.

[Iecerint]

That scene did fucking NOTHING. Nothing. It didn't advance anything. It was just gratuitous rape for the sake of it.

It's setting up Theon saving Sansa obvs. Or hopefully just to play some role in her saving herself.

[Iecerint]

Show-Loras is a little snot, so I don't really care what happens to him, except inasmuch as it makes clear how Margaery and Olenna are vulnerable.