@Dierfire I didn't know you signed up for this game!
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
@Boring You don't even have a witty one-liner to go with your vote... that's really...
Anybody up for some questions?
I've been finishing up a new set I want to use.
I like it when people make Beowulf jokes. Do you not like people referencing your name in jokes?boring wrote:In post 36, Grendel wrote:@Boring You don't even have a witty one-liner to go with your vote... that's really...boring...
You say that like it's a bad thing.
What am I? Chopped liver?Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah Eager is lame, you're the one I want to see in action!
I wanted to counter with another pun but I don't feel especially creative this evening.MariaR wrote:In post 36, Grendel wrote:@Boring You don't even have a witty one-liner to go with your vote... that's really...boring...
oh dear god kill it with fire
VOTE: Grendel
If I was wanting town approval before I did something then why did I not wait for a positive response before posting?In post 64, implosion wrote:Grendel's opening post is also potentially scummy.Why not just ask the questions? This seems unnecessarily roundabout.Grendel wrote:Anybody up for some questions?
I've been finishing up a new set I want to use.
Yes, I like to review the question results to see if I can divine some alignments. Why not contribute to the game with your answers?If this is non-sarcastic then I'm holding you to this - I'd like to hear what actual alignment-indicative or otherwise useful content you're getting out of these questions.Grendel wrote:If its cool I'd like you all to leave me to analyze them,
Also of all games to feel like you need to force an RQS or RVS, this is a very silly one. We havea claim.On page one. An unusual one at that. We have a goldmine of material to analyze already - why do you feel the need to instigate an RQS? RQS and RVS as they're usually conceived are both kind of outdated anyway. There's usually enough substance in the first few posts to get reads that are legitimate enough to argue about, even if they're very unstable.
Okay, gun to your head: Am I mislead town, or misleading mafia?Zoronos wrote:Because I don't vote the instant I have an inkling of suspicion. Or moreover, because the simple act of asking the questions isn't necessarily scum play. Using the questions as a sole form of contribution on the other hand is (which doesn't necessarily mean Grendel, a townie putting down that kind of list gives the scum room to dwell on it to contribute, so it isn't even that Grendel is scum for doing it, it's just pro-scum to exist). So yes, I'd rather take the hard line early and nip camouflaging play in the bud.In post 64, implosion wrote:Zoronos, you're implying a scumread on Grendel; why not follow it up with a vote?
Or maybe these boards don't have a conception of 'fake content' or maybe I'm using the wrong jargon to explain the idea. If I'm unclear, well.
I'd say that is more dependent on the player. Some people are more gutsy as town then scum, some more gutsy as scum.Gamma Emerald wrote:I made it up. However, being bold is a bit of a towntell.
After mulling over it I came to the conclusion that Eager is town for a different reason. However, I am pretty sure that Mafiascum site meta favors town with NU claiming early as proper play, and I haven't read any games yet where mafia would cliam something like this D1 for town cred. In fact the one game I played with a mafia esthic, the esthic kept their role under wraps even when visited, instead leaving the investigative role that visited them to believe they were role blocked.In post 173, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Grendel: you were there for the unclaiming in NPBR, what did you think of it?
No, I'm an aurtist.PenguinPower wrote:Lmao. Can't wait to see how this actually turns out endgame. Are you a first year psych student or something?
Oh, I also don't like how you're ignoring all the content since.
Ear tagging me with the label "bad town" is bad play. It does not refute me at all, and just makes voting me easy because if I don't flip scum you can just reason that I was bad town anyways.PenguinPower wrote:Oh, and just to solidify the lulz in endgame because this is great 1.) is honesty (happening now) and 3.) is honesty. I've been here a little over 3 months and my play style has changed every game. That would classify as undefined.
p-edit
You're either bad town or scum.
Why are you implying that I couldn't possibly have caught scum?Zoronos wrote:Dierfire posted once this game (before Grendel asked the questions), and Salandaar hasn't posted at all, but Grendel didn't seem to notice that / take that into account when assigning reads. Giving a light town read because they haven't posted at all is nonsense (He says probability of scum in main list, but that assumes a PoE that can't really exist yet unless he's Super Confident in his scum reads on there)
But initial suspicion confirmed, hand-wave or over-analysis of non-alignment-indicating details. Your biggest determiner of order of response is "Who was reading the thread when you posted the list", so treating that as alignment indicating will likely lead you down a hole, since 'people that post more' are correlated with 'people that answer soonest'. So using that as an alignment indicator is a bit specious.
If anything, the answer I'd have been looking most closely at would have been "Are you often mislynched". A Yes to that answer might lead me to believe scum opening an AtE avenue. But he ignores that line of play. <In case people misread since apparently my posts get misread, I'm not saying this makes him scum I'm saying it means I think he's just doing it wrong>
In post 235, boring wrote:I'm sorry, but you can't scream confirmation bias much louder than this.In post 232, Grendel wrote:If anything you insiting that RQS isn't a valid means of catching scum sounds like scum annoyed that they got caught for the wrong reasons.
What do you see in his reaction that is townish?In post 254, implosion wrote:@boring's 202
I like PP's reaction to Grendel a lot, he gets town points.
His wagon on Lil Uzi Vert is easy. Lil is non contributing and anti town, but his play is a largely null tell for me because he did this exact same thing as town last time I played with him. Heck I, as scum, pushed to get Vert lynched with the same reason that Penguin is here. That Vert is “fence sitty and his lack of stances make him scum lordz”. Lil is a great wagon for scum!Penguin because he can push this wagon through with little consequence once Vert were to flip town.In post 342, Zoronos wrote:Putting the answers to the random questions completely aside, can you point to why Penguin is scum, based on things he's posted in game?In post 302, Grendel wrote:Oh and, I'm about to get really busy on something, and won't be on tonight.
See you all tomorrow... evening?
I don’t know how useful metaing him is when he self proclaimed that he changes up his style in every game he plays. Remember how his play style is ‘undefined’. If you can reliably meta his plays then that would mean he was holding back information, and fabricated some elaboration when I called his original response guarded... Or it could mean that Penguin over estimates his ability to inject variety into his games.In post 330, implosion wrote:
@Grendel, and @anyone else who wants to know why PP is town: PP's reaction in 219 and 221 makes me think town for a few reasons. 1, I think he shows genuine contempt, and that contempt indicates that he genuinely doesn't think your points have merit, meaning he's either town, or he's scum who thinks your line of reasoning is completely wrong which I find less likely because 2, it's antithetical to what I saw of PP's play in my other game with him. I pressured him a lot in that game; I was town, he was scum and he was, I think, a bit more hesitant to engage on such a direct level with calling the arguments I was making bad. He answered the queries I had about him and didn't really comment as much on the quality of my reasoning, iirc. Or at least it doesn't stick in my mind. I think the reaction of calling you bad town or scum is relatively unlikely to come from the scumgame that I saw in that game. 3, those posts in addition to contempt show a certain level of him feeling like he's in-the-right (since he's talking about how he was just being honest with his answers) that I think is consistent with town who feels like they've been accused for bs reasons.
It looked like scum trying to stay in popular opinion.
Hmm, okay. I thought you might be worried I'd brush you off or something.nn30 wrote:@Grendel
I prefaced my post with a town read on you so that you know I'm not coming at you from an antagonistic point of view.
I've been trying to hunt for the whole team all at once so I can avoid tunnels.In post 437, PenguinPower wrote:Dude...you're making two levels of pre-associative flips? Wow...this is going to be lulzworthy at the end.In post 434, Grendel wrote:I can't I.D. third scum for my scum team and want to hear some interactions people may have caught between people.
Well, I had put you as regular/almost insightful town until the above.
Are you scum reading Zoronos? Because you voted one of my biggest critics for being critical of me, which would imply you had a town read on me at least since then. For you to suddenly say that you weren't town reading me doesn't add up to how I recalled your actions. WhatGamma Emerald wrote:In post 427, Grendel wrote:@GammaOutside of how I opened my game why are you town reading me?
I would also like an explanation as why Implosion went from scum to town, and why Shadow step went from town to what ever "need to contribute" means.
Lastly What do you think of Penguin?
I never stated I townread you, but this is your normal townplay, so yeah I townread you because your play is towny.
Implosion became town because he a) actually read LUV's post and b) still scumread me after like half the players stated a townread on me. Shadow needs to contribute because he hasn't seemed to have done much beyond voting LUV and PP.
PP seems like scum. His push against you has been very bad looking.Gamma Emerald wrote:You trying to call his methodology bad. Also, as Grendel mentioned, you've seemed to be trying to remain in popular opinion.
Now that we have a VC:
VOTE: PenguinPower
And I didn't say you were town, that statement before was sarcastic. I had already been townleaning Implosion. Not the same case with you.
Who are they?
But he is still town to you?In post 435, Gamma Emerald wrote:Shadow needs to contribute because he hasn't seemed to have done much beyond voting LUV and PP.
It is a pretty common scum hunting tactic actually...In post 459, PenguinPower wrote:Yeah...that's bad.In post 456, Grendel wrote:I've been trying to hunt for the whole team all at once so I can avoid tunnels.
Who do you think could be scum with Gamma?
Right now, it's Gamma. He's further ingratiated the scum ranks in my mind. I don't like LUV's silence...but we also have another slot that has done F all that I would like to hear from. Not going to try and find all scum D1.
In post 461, Gamma Emerald wrote:I was being critical because it was typical town play for you. I believe I stated I needed to see more to sort you out once or twice. Zoronos is still a bit of a scumread. Actually, my reads are starting to get mixed up. I may have to actually sort them out with a list.In post 456, Grendel wrote:Are you scum reading Zoronos? Because you voted one of my biggest critics for being critical of me, which would imply you had a town read on me at least since then. For you to suddenly say that you weren't town reading me doesn't add up to how I recalled your actions. Whatspecificlyabout my play is townie?
Also, Why is the crux of your vote for Penguin "what Grendel said"?
That puts you in a position were you could blame me if Penguin flips town. And as a whole is not informative, rather is lazy.
PEdit: I am starting to scumread S_s though.
Well like I said, my D1 votes are one step away from tunnels. This has helped me from that by seeing if my top scum read isn't fitting with anybody I can conclude thay are town.In post 471, MariaR wrote:@Gren I think teamhunting is one of the worst things you can do sooo early in the game because some of the team may not have even posted a bunch so you'll be looking for an answer that can't be solved.
When did you come to this conclusion?Gamma Emerald wrote:As for why I townread Grendel, I guess it's just that this feels a lot like NPBR again.
But Boring, if you feel my logic is off base the why are you sharing my top scum read?In post 476, boring wrote:Grendel- His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.
Cool dude. (They're called RQS questions)In post 488, Prism wrote:Hey everybody, I'm thrilled to join the game and can't wait to jump in.
That said, this is my busiest weekend of the year which makes it difficult to do so. I'll try to do a more comprehensive read on Sunday but for now I'm frozen in time at Page 12. In the meantime I'm going to VOTE: boring whose #196 left me wondering if she was trying to find inconsistencies or trying to find scum.
Not sure about the idea of penguinXGamma, its possible they are distancing but it seems unlikely given these last few page between them.Dierfire wrote:@GrendelAs I've outlined (351), I think that Gamma Emerald looks like a viable partner for PenguinPower. I also want to flag the quote below as suspicious, but I think that it's probably not productive to think too hard about this from an associative perspective right now.In post 434, Grendel wrote:Does anybody have some hypothetical scum teams cooked up?
I can't I.D. third scum for my scum team and want to hear some interactions people may have caught between people.
A lot of people I originally thought could be with Penguin were, or are, on his wagon.
The timing is weird to me (¿why is the absence of Slandaar provoking absolute hate at this point?) and feels more like PenguinPower is looking for something to say than like PenguinPower has a real comment on Slandaar at this point.In post 432, PenguinPower wrote:Btw...not liking Slandaar right now. Hate. Absolutely hate. Prodging.
Mainly interested in town!Implosion.In post 351, Dierfire wrote: I'm out of time for this interval. I'll back in a few hours to discuss why I'm reading implosion, Grendel, and nn30 as Town (I could tentatively add eagerSnake and Zoronos as well).
Well I gotta admit that was pretty funny.boring wrote:Sweet mango chutney, I wish I could say I worded it like that on purpose. I'm an old lady, and it's past my bed time. I'll see you crazy kids tomorrow.
Not really. He has been pretty lack luster poster. Even going off the last game.In post 507, Gamma Emerald wrote:Trying to actively contribute.In post 505, PenguinPower wrote:And LUV seems to be doing...what?
You suspensions of me actually strength my town read on you. The Scum!Eager I played with was totally okay with being a strong tr of mine. Your paranoia here makes me all the more sure you are town.In post 582, eagerSnake wrote:Throw Grendel in there and lolIn post 579, Zoronos wrote:The dichotomy between Boring and Maria here is interesting; Maria is hard to sort because she is content light (apparently purposefully), and Boring is hard to sort because some of her content makes me go "Yup, that's scummy def" and some is "Well, that is pretty darn reasonable".
Those are some pretty big generalizations to make about my play style. I do tend to view people who are consistently incorrect, as more likely to be scum then somebody consistently correct. Just like I recognize that not all liars are scum, butIn post 579, Zoronos wrote: I believe that Grendel is town, and have said that a couple times now. I think most of his questions are bad and his lines of inquiry (prior to today. I really haven't taken the time yet to process the stuff that has happened today) betray a lack of knowledge about what behaviors are actually scummy. His beliefs, whoever wrong or poorly guided, seems sincerely held however. He's trying to solve the game, or at least giving a damn good impression that he's trying to do so. That says townish to me.
One thing that stands out to me is that he seems to think calling something wrong and calling something scummy are one and the same. Which is not true, but it is an indication that he very much wants to be taken seriously and have his views respected.
Why and to what extent?boring wrote:Does this seem uncomfortable to anyone else?In post 607, Grendel wrote:You suspensions of me actually strength my town read on you. The Scum!Eager I played with was totally okay with being a strong tr of mine. Your paranoia here makes me all the more sure you are town.In post 582, eagerSnake wrote:Throw Grendel in there and lolIn post 579, Zoronos wrote:The dichotomy between Boring and Maria here is interesting; Maria is hard to sort because she is content light (apparently purposefully), and Boring is hard to sort because some of her content makes me go "Yup, that's scummy def" and some is "Well, that is pretty darn reasonable".
I mean, if youarescum you a mighty fine actor lol.
You're free to over analysis me as much as you want.In post 623, boring wrote:It read to me like "greetings, fellow town-player. You are definitely town, and not scum. I am also not scum. You can see it clearly printed on my nametag. I will now go and do town things. Because I'm town."In post 619, Grendel wrote:Why and to what extent?boring wrote:Does this seem uncomfortable to anyone else?In post 607, Grendel wrote:You suspensions of me actually strength my town read on you. The Scum!Eager I played with was totally okay with being a strong tr of mine. Your paranoia here makes me all the more sure you are town.In post 582, eagerSnake wrote:Throw Grendel in there and lolIn post 579, Zoronos wrote:The dichotomy between Boring and Maria here is interesting; Maria is hard to sort because she is content light (apparently purposefully), and Boring is hard to sort because some of her content makes me go "Yup, that's scummy def" and some is "Well, that is pretty darn reasonable".
I mean, if youarescum you a mighty fine actor lol.
I noticed how Eager wasn't content for me to scratch him behind the ears with a town read this game and thought it was townish. And decided to mention it while it was still on my mind.
I was open to the idea that I'm just being paranoid, which is why I opened the floor, rather than just sticking it into my notes.
Lol, I sound just like this when I'm caught scum. "Don't lynch me guys,In post 815, eagerSnake wrote:If we don't overcome this, we will almost certainly lose.
If Eager thinks that Shadow is town why would he be making little jabs like this to scare him off? If Eager were to keep trying to convince Shadow he, Eager, was town instead it would have come across as genuine, the way Snake is going about this doesn't look like town trying to convince town.In post 868, eagerSnake wrote:So when I flip town you're lynching s_s? Everyone that is voting me is because "2 town with ascetic no way" so that applies to s_s unfortunately once I flip town
This one here in particular, not only is it a passive scare tactic, but it reminds me a whole lot like how Scum!Snake tried to avoid getting strung up in the last game we were in together. He tried to dissuade his wagon by appearing like a town thinking in the long term with questions involving what happens after he flips town. I will say though that the couple posts before that, were he asked how shadow would read Gamma, and boring tomorrow, were actually okay lines of thought.In post 965, eagerSnake wrote:@shadow Okay, and when I flip town, how do you intend to survive tomorrows lynch?
Well, I'll look into Boring too, but many of your posts have been down right manipulative.In post 1091, eagerSnake wrote:Hey. Grendel. I'm actually town but nice wallpost
I will say that this ad hommin was pretty funny.In post 1076, eagerSnake wrote:Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?
Saying things like, "you're gonna lose if you vote me" is playing with people's fear of losing.Gamma Emerald wrote:How has he been doing that?In post 1094, Grendel wrote:Well, I'll look into Boring too, but many of your posts have been down right manipulative.In post 1091, eagerSnake wrote:Hey. Grendel. I'm actually town but nice wallpost
Playing into unknowing majority's fear is a really scum oriented strategy.
Also, your summary has made me rethink again due to what I did Day 5 in NPBR. Vote stays for now though.
Well that gives me some pause. Hm.In post 1132, Zoronos wrote:The sheer absurdity of a day one CC is what boggles me about all this. If I were scum, I would never early claim ascetic in thread. I'd sit on that into end game and never ever mention it. Town can't cop me / roleblock me / track me? Awesome I'm the best scum.
I'd also never try to counter claim a town ascetic, since that's just a bad 1 for 1, which is not a winning play for scum.
Which means either Eager or SS don't play scum along the same axis that I do, or that they're not scum. Or are just crazy people who make bad choices.
What about NPBR day five did you want to discuss?In post 1097, Gamma Emerald wrote:I didn't realize that was what you said it was, Grendel.
Any response to what I said about NPBR?
Nope, I really don't think shadow would be scum in this situation. Regardless of your alignment.In post 1156, eagerSnake wrote:Are you confident enough to Lynch s_s after I flip town?
Oh yeah that.In post 1170, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm discussing the fact I argued that PKFP and Marietta could both be town Role Cops.
I didn't say there couldn't be two town ascetics.In post 1175, eagerSnake wrote:If the whole base of the argument against me is there's no way there's 2 town ascetics then by that reasoning when I flip town ascetic you have to lynch my cc.
I thought his paranoia was town like, reinforcing the town read I got from RQS an stuff.Zoronos wrote:Wait, so Grendel in that post was super sure Eager was town. He was reiterating that Eager's scum read on him made him sure Eager was town.
Grendel is voting Eager right now... time to go back and check that reasoning.
UGH SO MUCH ISO DIVING I JUST WANT TO DO OTHER THINGS NOT FORUM POST.
In post 1195, Prism wrote:This is a really bad post. I'm not sure if there's many other ways to put it. Why do you not just advocate it now?In post 1190, Grendel wrote:If Snake does flip town I will advocate lynching boring tomorrow.
lol Prism.Prism wrote:I'm still selling Implosion votes on the cheap if anyone wants to buy, it's a great product, the R&D team really came through, we just need some marketing and consumer awareness to really get the boost we need.
You were in awe of my stunning magnificence weren't you?In post 1227, boring wrote: I was distracted by Grendel.
Yeah i'll look into boring. I was really hoping that Eager would be an open shut case, but I'm beginning to think its not.In post 1206, Zoronos wrote:In post 1088, Grendel wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: EagerSnake
I was going to look more into boring since she is the leading wagon, but I feel like Snake is much scummier atm.So, Grendel, you said you'd look into Boring. What did you come up with?In post 1094, Grendel wrote:Well, I'll look into Boring too, but many of your posts have been down right manipulative.In post 1091, eagerSnake wrote:Hey. Grendel. I'm actually town but nice wallpost
Playing into unknowing majority's fear is a really scum oriented strategy.
(I read back over the ISO like I said, I see the pivot point onto Eager from his previous Eager-Town, Boring-Suspicious stance. Not entirely convinced by it, but let's run this line of questioning and see where we go)
Are you implying that scum are trying to set up a boring lynch later?PenguinPower wrote:Bold is mine. Since we're all fans of the complicated and intricate in this game, why could scum not orchestrate that in their day chat?In post 1238, nn30 wrote:Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled -meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters(implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.
You poor, attention depraved soul.Prism wrote:I'm also disturbed by the fact thatvirtually no one has read me for alignment or outed a single read on mein 24 posts.
Grendel's recent one is the closest attempt.
Okay, its just been twenty plus pages since you last mentioned it, and I wondered if you still had a town read on that slot.In post 1254, PenguinPower wrote:I'm not implying anything. I simply stating that nn30's case would be good logic without day chat. Not necessarily so with. I also haven't hidden my town read on boring, and have never stated anything otherwise.In post 1250, Grendel wrote:Are you implying that scum are trying to set up a boring lynch later?
I mean, why would scum consciously say, "lets not vote boring fam", if she were town. It seems like a pretty unlikely thing for town to pick up on normally. Therefore not something that scum would preemptively set up.
Do you think boring is town then?
I thought you viewed mutually exclusive relationships as pro-scum.Gamma Emerald wrote:I figured this would be the case, but did it anyway to see your response.In post 1259, PenguinPower wrote:If I didn't think you were scum...yeah. Still want eager to flip.
No real read change, but I've decided that you cannot be scum if Dier is town. What scum would reject an offer like that?
I mean you are living in a world were it has to be Town/scum, not town/town, or scum/scum.Gamma Emerald wrote:What do you mean by mutually exclusive relationships, and when did I say that?In post 1267, Grendel wrote:I thought you viewed mutually exclusive relationships as pro-scum.Gamma Emerald wrote:I figured this would be the case, but did it anyway to see your response.In post 1259, PenguinPower wrote:If I didn't think you were scum...yeah. Still want eager to flip.
No real read change, but I've decided that you cannot be scum if Dier is town. What scum would reject an offer like that?
Sorry for the absence.
I was very busy as the day started coming to a close, it wasn't so much, "I'll get to boring later", as it was, "I'll get to the game later". I was not in the mood for much rereading.In post 1582, implosion wrote:In other news I'm very curious to hear a lot from Grendel on boring after this...I was going to look more into boring since she is the leading wagon, but I feel like Snake is much scummier atm.Well, I'll look into Boring too, but many of your posts have been down right manipulative.If Snake does flip town I will advocate lynching boring tomorrow.For those not seeing what I am here: it looks really very waffly. I question grendel having this consistent attitude near the end of the day of "I'll get to boring later."Yeah i'll look into boring. I was really hoping that Eager would be an open shut case, but I'm beginning to think its not.