Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[The MM]

Raise: $50

But I need to do something smart...
VOTE: Something_Smart

[The MM]

Oi oi, Infinity. We know you're a he, no need to go full MAN and show the entire world how ballsy you are

@Mod: Does raising reset everyone's options? Infinity raised on my raise, am I forced to stay at 50, or am I forced to reraise? Whatever happens?

[The MM]

Looks like someone made this hand all or nothing. Welp,

Call

.

Need to voice my disapproval in at least one way: VOTE: Lane

[The MM]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

[The MM]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

@infinity, I don't like mm. Here he says town wouldn't give away their monies random like that. I'm lead to believe he thinks scum would give away their money at random... And yet scum would LOVE to get those abilities. We've already established its hugely beneficial for scum to gain money. And everyone seems to think I'm in a ploy to give my money to mm.

But mm seems to think I'm scum because town wouldn't give money away like that.

@mm, why would scum give money away like that? Especially when they can benefit hugely from getting perks?

1- Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP. I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand. But here's the kicker: for any townie, doing that is betting blind. It's like how I play poker at home, all-in first hand and get ready to lol. I didn't win an online tour for my stepfather by all-ining, I did it by eating a few dumb all-ins with good hands. Luck played its part.
2- That's certainly a scummy move, though my scumread on you is soft at best. I've been pushing it for several other reasons though.
3 - Scum wouldn't, unless they're trying to bank on town being unwilling to risk too much to move the money to one scum so they can get those juicy 1250$ abilities.
PS - Bluffing is useless if you don't have any semblance of cred (like a hand won or two).

And to all of you who say I'm playing bad, that's normal: this is my second game here, and it's months after my first due to a quite tense situation I got into IRL. As for being hasty, I was: one of the primal needs of the human body is sleep, and I was in lack of it. I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

[The MM]

Readslist:

BlueBloodedToffee
* 27: "How good are y'all at poker?" I forgot to answer to that. I'm sure I'm very swingy as a player, so I'd say 2~7 depending on the moment/mood.
Nothing very helpful, but nothing scummy:

NULL

MagnaOfIllusion
* 19 was no more than calling out a hard-to-use tactic. I condone this, but that doesn't tell anything alignment-related.
Makes sense all around. I'm inclined to trust him but I'm not making that mistake again:

NULL (+Town)

Persivul
* 35: I don't mean to be a whiner, but winning at poker doesn't mean one's scum. As far as I'm going, I'm likely to win, except if lane mindgemmed me and actually has a sure-win hand, something like a straight flush.
Makes sense, but I have a feel that tells me more "no-nonsense and cutthroat" for some reason:

NULL

Kappy
We waitin for YOU, [REDACTED]!! :

NULL

lane0168
* 21's the big bluff that we've been talking about. I'm undecided between thinking this was a scummy move to pass money to scum, or really just a mindless bluff, but I'd think lane's better than that.
I don't know if he's playing me, but I'm convinced he plays dumb -- though is it that he's playing dumb to fool me or his plays are just dumb, I don't know. The vote switch on me just to please infinity doe.

NULL (+ slight scum)

FA_Q2
Kinda aggro on lane's move. Frankly I think it's a good player to keep but really:

NULL

Something_Smart
Very un-striking to me. Nothing stands out, except the propensity to come up with complicated stuff, or lies (42 wasn't a big leap to take).

NULL

qubixes
Only posted once "lynch BBT boohoo u lynch'd me". I can make nothing of this:

NULL

Infinity 324:
* 24 is, I think, a wannabe readslist or ranking or etc, but ranking quibixes at top dawg town is full of bull seeing as his only post so far was "vote BBT you got me lynched last time :,(". Magna has been making sense, that's for sure, but I don't see how town this is. S_S has only been asking for a move that would be in the best interest of town, but I only see his idea as a candid dream. The only thing lane had done was his epic bluff. I don't see persivul as "possible scum" tho, seeing as the only thing he did was fold and detecting the bluff from lane. Also, yourself at the bottom of the readslist? Was that copypasta'd, is that a mindgem to tell us not to think you're scum?
* 63: I'm not at fault for being unoriginal when I express my approval of others' points. 61 was just that. It's not my fault if I get predated. Also, someone visibly doesn't know me.
Kinda-groundless readslist on third post. Thinking I'm scum just because of my posting style, and not drawing the money plays to his mind since I've put on paper I was likely to take those $500 from lane. Bleeeeh. For all I hate his behaviour tho, he's barely even scummy.

RedCoyote
One post, though it has substance. I can pretty much agree on everything he said, but I'm meh about it.

NULL

[The MM]

VOTE: The MM
Based on the chip dumping theory and a reads list full of nulls. If you don't have any reads yet, why put up a list? Oh yeah...because it looks kinda townie.

Because it has some leanings (some are so soft they don't show up in the final results) and I'm making sure everyone keeps track of that. I'm not writing down people as scum or town this easily as y'all, that's it. Do I need to write down my tiniest leans? People can change my opinion of them in one post.

The mm, who said you were playing badly? I must've missed that. And why is everyone single one of your reads null?

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.
My reads are null with very soft leans in case you can read and spot them.

Who is scum just following Persivul's idea? I'll find you. Unless it's just mm and only mm

What idea? The chip-dumping theory? Just because I'm confident in my hand doesn't mean I'm scum, otherwise that would mean I was just collecting lane's monies. Besides, lane claimed to have done that with no coordination, so what do you think are the odds of the guy with the nuts be town? Just down to luck, out of the 10 remaning, odds are 2 or 3 are scum, making it like 75% chance I'm town.

Just saying, people here take too many things at face value.
Apparently some of you have already played each other and thus know each other a bunch, but I didn't. That means I can't go full gung-ho with gut-based or entirely reason-based reads because I don't know how you act at all.
Seems to me, though, that you are not even trying and draw conclusions and vote me at the drop of a hat. A day phase is 2 weeks, we could at least use the time.

[The MM]

Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP.

I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand.

But here's the kicker: for any townie, doing that is betting blind.[...]

I don't understand the bolded part. If you thought scum might do that, then why not wait until the partner shows up and calls? (And take both of their money.) [...]

I agree that it was a little bit early, but I miscalculated and thought that simply eating one guy's monies would hand me enough to hit a Governor or Vengeful. And frankly, this doubles as a message in retrospect, since I announced my confidence in our hand, it's asking everyone to just go ahead and spare their monies and avoid some humiliation.

@the mm. How long do you wait to go full gung-ho with your reads? Why are you concerned about how we will act of you go full gung-ho with your reads?
This could be a case of tunneling on my part, but I really don't like the mm. Unless everything they say is just fitting my preconceived notion. Will consider that
There was too much stuff in rvs that was weird to even comment on infinities read list. Two self votes. Moi changing rvs to bandwagon. Infinity having self at bottom. Wasn't going to get to decipher anything from any of that.

- How long do I wait..? Eternity. Going gung-ho is a bad idea. Who is going to follow if I just say "X is scum"? Noone. So I never follow just gut feeling, or just reason; so usually by a bunch of pages I have reads, but I try to be as soft as possible on them during RVS and immediately after.
- "everything

they

say" I'm a he, thank you. Thought it was clear.

@The MM
- I don't think the problem with the readlist is the number of null reads (at least to me). But why put them out that early?
- I tried to find out by looking through your earlier games. I only found one, where you replaced in. That is correct?

The clearer my reads are to the rest of the town, the better they understand me.
I only participated in one earlier game, in which I replaced in, you're right. Entered pre-game, was replaced out on day 4 due to RL stuff.

Was NAI, he seemed to read too much into it

Can I ask what NAI means? The wiki points me to a random player. (Is it "Not An Issue" or whatever?)

[The MM]

NAI = non-alignment-indicative

Tanks.
Well, I'm gonna take a while to get that one down.

---

Back to quoting and answering.

RE: lane's 78
I can see the thought process here more clearly than I can see the scumlane argument.
The scumlane conclusion argues that lane knowingly went all in in an attempt to consolidate funds to the scum team. Reasonable, but it requires that lane came up with a devious and clever strategy to act on immediately. He would necessarily have gotten attention for this bet, which the scumteam had to know. Were they betting (heh) that we would ultimately ignore it? I just think it sounds too complex. It's reasonable, but I don't think it's likely.
Now, lane proposes an interesting counterargument. The MM suggested that the above scumlane argument holds water. He wasn't the original one to propose it, but he is a follower. There's a caveat though. MM called lane's bet. Ergo, what The MM is criticizing lane for he just did himself.
Then again, perhaps MM is that sure that lane is scum that he's willing to gamble all his money in an effort to stop lane from winning. On the other hand, if his hand is weak, he's giving the scum a sizable pot now...
The question everyone has to ask themselves, if you were townMM, would you have called scumlane? If so, why didn't you? If not, why would townMM do this?
---

I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

Playing the newbie card is unnecessary and will detract from your status in my eyes, not improve it.
---

I'm undecided between thinking this was a scummy move to pass money to scum, or really just a mindless bluff, but I'd think lane's better than that.

Why would you assume the former if you don't know him, however?
I also get a sense that you are trying to have it both ways. These two statements appear to contradict somewhat:

I'd think lane's better than [making a mindless bluff].

I'm convinced [lane] plays dumb

---

It shouldn't matter for today. If Lane loses as he says he will, then it would be the winner we would want to lynch. I'm kind of kicking myself for mentioning the possibility when I did. It might have been more informative to let the hand play out before saying anything.

Yeah, you are definitely my top townread right now.
VOTE: The MM, L-2.

1- I may have done what I criticized lane for, but I'm sure I got this pot in the bag. Securing the money away from the scum's the name of the game, since even one scum purchasing a vengeful or governor day is time lost for town. I'm not sure baiting the scum was even possible, but right now I agree that this move makes me look scummy -- that is, if I'm lane's partner but other accusations don't hold water as far as bets go.
2- Your pick. If you're offensive to newbies though, you'll be hated.
3- "playing dumb" can also mean "making dumb plays", mixed messages and far-fetched interpretations hurrah! Basically if lane wins over my hand I just don't wanna sleep on lane by underestimating him, but I still think that was a bad play.
4- Are you lynching me for winning at poker, man?

---

Posting for my benefit for later reference – FA and Pers have both made “13 player oops” slips.

That struck me.

The bad part of MM’s full readslist is not that it is not strong. I don’t expect that on Page 4. Why it may be an example of scum play is it appeared right after MM had drawn a couple votes (Infinity and Lane) and has the feel of “Have to post content to look Town before a wagon develops”.

That was the plan in a shellnut, though you put it to parody levels. But wanting to look as Town as possible is not limited to scum.

Otherwise it could just be someone who tried to bluff and got called. You guys obviously know nothing about poker. People bluff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's obvious you guys know nothing about poker to think that there would obviously be a call on all in first hand. You're trying to make it scummy when it isn't.

I think Lane’s response to the pressure has been Null/Reasonable but this post pushes my gut.
Lane made what is the equivalent of Newb101 Poker Bad Play. Going effectively All-In the first hand with what he is claiming is a bad hand is the kind of thing you see from complete novice players. And yet his response is to basically ridicule everyone who suspects him as not understanding poker.

I need to push this point as I do not understand this attitude of lane towards callouts. This bluff was hasty.

What idea? The chip-dumping theory? Just because I'm confident in my hand doesn't mean I'm scum, otherwise that would mean I was just collecting lane's monies. Besides, lane claimed to have done that with no coordination, so what do you think are the odds of the guy with the nuts be town? Just down to luck, out of the 10 remaning, odds are 2 or 3 are scum, making it like 75% chance I'm town.

For someone who decried players taking things at face value there is an awful lot you are expecting everyone to just take at face value in this response for it to be reasonable.

I agree this is arrogant of me to say that, but when you take things at face value, I decided that if that was how you played then perhaps I should lay it down in terms that speak to you.

It is also possible that MM has a good 5 card draw hand and he pre-empted scum’s plan as Town.

Actually MM would look a lot better if he had simply said he has a great hand and so he called. Claiming he was pre-empting scum's plan is bad. As has been already noted, if here were really thinking at that level, he would have waited for scum to call before going in himself.

I agree that I jumped in a bit too early, which drew all sorts of non-benefices.

Hope I've cleared some smoke.

[The MM]

I just made the mistake of thinking the most expensive abilities were prized at 1000 (instead of 1250) and thus I'd only need to eat your monies to get the best abilities in the game. Does that answer your question?

[The MM]

I just made the mistake of thinking the most expensive abilities were prized at 1000 (instead of 1250) and thus I'd only need to eat your monies to get the best abilities in the game. Does that answer your question?

Yes, but it feels like you're just trying to come up with reasons for why you didn't wait for my partner to call if that's what you were really thinking when you called me. You wanted to put a stop to it, and you thought 1000 would be enough for the most expensive abilities. Where did you come up with 1000 being the most expensive abilities? Did you never actually look at the abilities in the first place? Because if not, I'm having trouble figuring out why you'd think 1000 was for the most expensive ones. And if you had looked at them, I'm having trouble figuring out why you'd think 1000 was the most expensive ones?

Either you didn't look at them, and in that case you would have no idea or reason to believe abilities are different prices, so that's not the case.

Or you did look at them, and would then see the prices. And see they are different prices for different abilities. Which must be the case. So how do you come up with 1000 being the most expensive abilities?

Are you just making up excuses now?

This sounds like such, but my bet was short-sighted and I recognize it. I was kinda between "oh look some guy's all-in'ing and I'm sure to eat him let's f*ckin do this" and "some dumbnut's bluffing is killing the gimmick, let's stop this rite now" in my head.
I was sure to only need to take one guy's money because of my own habits when I create such game systems, which is basically me screwing myself over, but whatever. I sure hope Kappy folds, at least this entire thing will have harmed the least people possible and I still get 1k$ until some people decide it's a great idea to lynch me.

UNVOTE: lane, by the way, that's useless to keep it there.

[The MM]

Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP.

I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand.

But here's the kicker: for any townie, doing that is betting blind.[...]

I don't understand the bolded part. If you thought scum might do that, then why not wait until the partner shows up and calls? (And take both of their money.) [...]

I agree that it was a little bit early, but I miscalculated and thought that simply eating one guy's monies would hand me enough to hit a Governor or Vengeful. And frankly, this doubles as a message in retrospect, since I announced my confidence in our hand, it's asking everyone to just go ahead and spare their monies and avoid some humiliation.

I do agree with lane here that it feels like you are making up excuses. One of the underlying reasons I asked about the sentence specifically, is because it suggests that you were trying to prevent a scum plan. That could have been true. But now instead you claim that you were actually thinking about getting enough money to get the most expensive item in the shop. Did you consider that it is quite bad for a townie to have a lot of money/abilities compared to the others? Because scum don't have that particular problem.

This sounds like such, but my bet was short-sighted and I recognize it. I was kinda between "oh look some guy's all-in'ing and I'm sure to eat him let's f*ckin do this" and "some dumbnut's bluffing is killing the gimmick, let's stop this rite now" in my head.
I was sure to only need to take one guy's money because of my own habits when I create such game systems, which is basically me screwing myself over, but whatever. I sure hope Kappy folds, at least this entire thing will have harmed the least people possible and I still get 1k$ until some people decide it's a great idea to lynch me.
UNVOTE: lane, by the way, that's useless to keep it there.

Why was it short-sighted according to you? Because you didn't wait for the potential scum partner to show up? Or because you miscalculated the shop prizes? Or both?
Also, why is it useless to keep your vote there? He is the only NULL (+scum) read in you read list. Did it change?
I will wait for the hands to be revealed, but I feel like you are playing from a scum perspective. The admissions of trying to look town, being rash with your bets don't make me feel better either.

Like I said, I just thought I was doing everything in the same go. Avoiding other townies from losing their money, killing the scum passing money gambit and taking a bunch of money myself. I don't consider money going to the hands of one townie bad per se, though of course the situation makes scum comes to mind, but sometimes the townies must make use of these PRs.
So, why was it short-sighted, you ask? I did that without planning exactly long-term, much less asking myself what you guys would think about it.
Also, I don't feel my scumreads on lane are strong enough to keep my vote here. Thinking about it, why would scum voluntarily forfeit their money like that? If lane was scum, he'd have just screwed himself over, and massively.

PS: I'm not lucky this time, but I'm honest about it.

Fold

[The MM]

I guess it could just be nervous noobtown?

It could. Emphasis on nervous.
I do not exactly like your extended pushing on me since you're really just reassessing points that have already been stressed.

Then he came up with he just thought he needed 1000 for the highest priced abilities... Where did that number even come from?!

2 times the base money. Plus you can't really chide me about not reading the rules -- you didn't bother about the fact that jokers exist because the mod needed 55 cards to hand 5 cards to 11 players.

Then he added that he was saving other Townies from throwing their money away. He has a straight. Honestly why would he care about other Townies throwing their money to him if he knows he town? Why would he care of he was scum? He wouldn't either way. This is a contrived excuse.

1- Persivul stressed it enough: people with too much money are lynch-bait. I also have remaining symptoms from my last game where I was like lynch bait for the entirety of day 2 and even a while into day 3 until the other people started pulling their weight (and I started not trying to -- obvious reasons), so I'm not trying to drag those sniper scopes on my face and wasting one day for a town that would love to lynch me into oblivion. You in particular have seemed very forthcoming in regards to lynching me, perhaps that backs my soft scumread on you? I think you're just being a simpleton here. That's an insult, yes, but I'm stating what I think of your recent behavior.

---

I'm having mixed feelings about Persivul though. He's making sense on the front (can't read people well, telling you from the start) and the fact that Something_Smart doesn't know what his scumplay is makes me afraid of the possibility. Also, I think his posts look a lot more measured and less emotional than other people's. I don't have a scumread on him though.

[The MM]

Time for a few questions.

[...]

MM (refer to 90), why wasn't 42 a big leap to take? Did the idea occur to you when you called? Why was my post (16) a "candid dream", and how did that not stand out to you?

Still to MM, when did you realize the top tier abilities were $1250 and not $1000? Why did you obviously invent new reasons to back up your call after the fact? What is your read on lane? Do you have any reads stronger than the ones expressed in 90?

Once again, seeing lane's play as scum was nearly my first thought on that (gut feeling just said "eat him").
I referred to 16 as a candid dream because it requires you to know the scummier players, and at this point you could just be voting them. Plus, this was also imagining they wouldn't object to being taken off the wagon. This looks suboptimal in every situation it could be viable.
I realized (or rather, recalled) the top abilities were priced at $1250 when we got to the money talk after I called on lane.
Then, I didn't exactly invent new reasons, I just expressed all one by one because I reacted badly to pressure.
My read on lane more or less says he plays idiot. Whether this means he's playing dumb or just making dumb plays, it's NAI. I don't like his attempt to extend the push on me beyond what it's been so far, smells of tunnel-vision. Which makes me not like him, but once again, my personal opinion is NAI.

(I'll be using this term a lot so I can get it down, sue me.)

As far as reads go, I don't really have legit reads. Infinity looks pretty town to me, but once again I don't wanna trust myself too much on him.

PS: People misunderstand the "I called to break that" as claiming I thought this was a legit attempt at an outplay. It wasn't. Letting scum call would have been the best choice of action, it's obvious. I still broke the coin-passing. I never said I meant to do it in the most effective way, and it wouldn't have worked anyway.

---

*Ninja'd*

FFFUUUUUUUUUUUU--

@the mm, why are you letting people think you're a noobie, when you're not

I am. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?

[The MM]

@the mm, why are you letting people think you're a noobie, when you're not

I am. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?[/quote]

MM, if you end up with your current cash at end of phase, what will you do with it, and why?

I don't have a definite plan in head, so I'm open to suggestions. The Tracker shot is tempting me as the most obviously townie ability of choice, then again I don't know who I'd track. The Tracker shot has the advantage of being refunded if the target does nothing.

[...]

I have not characterized my lane read as a townread. I do not think the evidence is there to call him a scumread, however. Should he have a bad hand, I will reassess at that time.

So Lane had a stupidly bad hand. I want to see your full thought process now that we see that is indeed a fact.

I'm already voting, actually. Did you see the Vote Count?

Yeah, I had forgotten you hopped on MM. Why did you just happen to hop on the biggest wagon again?

Sorry, but I didn't join a poker-themed game to get one crappy hand and then have to wait forever for the next deal.

This reaction seems a little odd to me given Kappy was set to auto-fold in under 7 hours.

No reason to change before the showdown. The hands might tell us something.

So what exactly did the hands show you then?

This is highlighting RC as potential scum. I just registered it as a nastier townie but yeah, I'd like to see RC's input before scumreading.

I do want mm to respond about the games he played off-site though.

I played a lot of them, something like 14, but they were never played seriously. Full of leaks, day phases that lasted 3 days or less, perpetual RVS or outside-reason-based voting (outside of swingy setups). If you want the full curriculum, please go bother wgeurts instead. But seriously, this isn't real mafia, this only teaches you the basic mechanics, which is why Ilook like I'm swimming fine. But this never taught me to read people, much less actually judging my own actions in hindsight, so I'm swimming in all directions without really knowing where I'm going. My knowledge of Mafia is still passable and rudimentary, so I count myself as a newbie.

[The MM]

15 games played and 3 games hosted. And a read through your first game, tells me you really shouldn't be hiding behind a noobie tag. But it's a pretty convenient way out that people suggest you're a newbie and you do nothing to explain even that you've played 14 games and hosted 3 elsewhere, regardless of the quality of those games

I feel like you're trying to make me snap at you. i've already explained that most of these games taught me nothing about serious play like in here. This is entirely different. I will be holding that newbie tag until I prove I'm competent. Is that even true yet? I doubt it.

You have any other reads? Why vote lane over persivul?

Why not? Persivul looks kinda shady and wildcard-ish to me, but I understand the vote against lane.

As for FAQ telling me not to tell anything, I wonder if he's keeping me safe or trying to sow distrust. If I consider FAQ as help, that casts extra shade on Persivul...

ISOing Persivul gives me: Threats to get the winner lynched regardless of alignment, pursuing me instead of lane for the chip-dumping theory (I'm sure lane's lynch would prove a lot more than mine, but then again it's consistent with his attempt at grabbing money), asking for my plans (a bad experience from my first game here is starting to tell me that this benefits scum far too much more than town, actually). No town ping and some really shady pings.
VOTE: Persivul

[The MM]

What's up, are you scum?

Not much, and Probably.

I can't even believe he's saying this just like that. Assassin, I don't know if it's a good idea to get the most fingers of suspicion cast on you.

[The MM]

Infinity's looking fairly towny with his 219 and 220.

Argument over MM's experience is longer than it needs to be.

232: @MM what about the things you mentioned that Persivul did was scum indicative?

The confidence in 242 in my experience is more likely to come from scum.

276: yes, you should do that.

- I did like Infinity's 219 too, but that's mostly due to bias.
- Yes, it prolongs side-talk and avoids scumhunts; so asking any more is scummy.
- Nothing he said, it's gut feeling from the general vibe I get from his posts. Feels like scum should be: somewhat legit-looking but not really reassuring or nice, etc...
- But if he's scum, that means the entire gambit idea is moot.
- I think Fire Assassin is sorta offensive. Gameplay-wise, he definitely is.

I am [a noobie]. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?

Choose? Why draw the newbie card, when you consider yourself at least not bad?
VOTE: The MM

Because I am a newbie. But you're confusing "newbie" with "bad. I'm bad only relatively to you, maybe, because I'm not good at reading people.

Wow, that's bad.

Ain't ya got nuthin' better to say?

Any chance of a real wagon developing?

You're just waiting for a wagon to hop on?

Persivul is next because of his reaction to me calling him out on role fishing. Rather than engage me on it he sidestepped it and went OMGUS with a bullshit reason.

The role fishing charge is terrible in this setup. The people with enough money to buy roles is public knowledge, and scum will be motivated to kill those people.

That's true, but right now I have a bunch of cards in my hands (not as far as poker goes, I folded), because I can Commute or Rolestop myself to avoid getting killed, or bank on the fact that scum expects me to to track peepz instead (or do anything else). Really, the scum just gave a focal point to the mindgames played on them now, and that focus is me.

Now I need to think about what to do if I survive the day, so I'll stop talking there.

[The MM]

Because I am a newbie. But you're confusing "newbie" with "bad. I'm bad only relatively to you, maybe, because I'm not good at reading people.

@MM: I can't really follow the logic. [Mafia scum Pro's ---- you ------ Mafia scum newbies ------ everyone else] Like that from good to bad?

You know, the scale of being good and bad isn't exactly one-dimensional. There's about as many scales as there are aspects to Mafia, which is a lot. But if you want to make a flat scale, bother to adjust the levels. It'd more look like this:
[MafiaScum Pros ------------------------- MM - Mafia Scum Newbie ----(give or take a few)---- Non Mafia players]

I like MoI's defense of mm, but lane has no reason to go all in as scum if mm is town, which basically debunks a large part of the case on him. (I didn't think it was scummy in the first played, I tried to bluff too cause I wasn't used to this many players in a poker game). Lane and mm are both town guys. Seriously.

I agree with the basic idea. Lane looks pretty townish to me now.

I don't like how MoI is using a meta argument to try to prove he's town and not having paranoia that he might be wrong on rc again, but ehh his other posts have been so town

It only takes one slip, you know. But so far I've somewhat liked MoI's vibes -- barring that. Once again, pure gut...

---

I need to reread a bunch of things, three pages of posts since my last visit... Another post incoming.

[The MM]

[Plan about scum giving each other money.] I called

to

break that [..]

Here he basically tells us that he tried to do something good for town by calling, through breaking scum's plan. The word "to" is the important bit, if he said "I called and I broke that" for example, it would be a different thing. His response wasn't very convincing, giving all sorts of reasons why he called, and saying that I/we are reading too much into it. It just seems to me he tried to look like a white knight fighting for the good of town.

What's so wrong about it. I called to break the idea, just not in the most effective way. Other reasons are at the side.
Also, about that white knight thing: all townies are town?

The bad part of MM’s full readslist is not that it is not strong. I don’t expect that on Page 4. Why it may be an example of scum play is it appeared right after MM had drawn a couple votes (Infinity and Lane) and has the feel of “Have to post content to look Town before a wagon develops”.

That was the plan in a shellnut, though you put it to parody levels. But wanting to look as Town as possible is not limited to scum.

Admitting to try and look town because of pressure. Admitting it doesn't really make it better in my opinion.

You're assuming it made things worse, but you're not even saying "it's an easy way for scum to break debate" or any reason though.

And to all of you who say I'm playing bad, that's normal: this is my second game here, and it's months after my first due to a quite tense situation I got into IRL. As for being hasty, I was: one of the primal needs of the human body is sleep, and I was in lack of it. I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.
My reads are null with very soft leans in case you can read and spot them.

In the first quote he tells people to keep in mind that he might be playing bad, because it is only his second game etc. So, he is pre-emptively defending himself with the newbie/being bad card. Then in the second quote he says that he wouldn't be so bad and transparent as scum. I think he's using both sides of the argument here.

Scum are usually more careful; I trust this applies to myself too -- but you wouldn't know. Also, there's a difference between one play and the player. One bad play does not necessarily make a bad player.

[The MM]

Jeesh, the animosity. I'm starting to lose track of where the debate ends and where it begins...

Fire is stirring too much things up. That's not a playstyle, that's nearly comms sabotage.
I feel like Fire only sees the game by "himself and the rest" given how he said lane was unresponsive while he hadn't answered

to him

, and

yet

(seeing as lane ninja'd me).
I don't consider this competence.

Ccl: I don't like Fire Assassin. I won't say it's alignment-indicative, but it's in no way town.

[The MM]

Did I honestly just say "just so you NO"?! Wow

You did. By the way, I'm late for that but... NO!

We're both being sensible. Except for now you're voting me when we should be voting MM.

And how so? You're not just thinking of brutalizing people into voting someone else without presenting evidence, are you?

Not at all. I'm much more surprised, and insulted, that you think this is indicative of my scum play.

I'm surprised and insulted you expect people to think you're town

Normally I should find this offensive, but I think lane has a point there. BBT has been relatively unhelpful.

Anyone want to comment on my plan to throw games so one of us tomorrow gets BP and good abiliites?
Or we just going to treat the poker stuff as a mini game?

But the poker stuff IS a minigame, Fire. Also, that plan relies on trust in one player to work. If that player is scum, town's screwed. Besides, there's no such thing as a universally-townread player in here.
By the way, crappy hand:

Fold

.

Jeesh, the animosity. I'm starting to lose track of where the debate ends and where it begins...
Fire is stirring too much things up. That's not a playstyle, that's nearly comms sabotage.
I feel like Fire only sees the game by "himself and the rest" given how he said lane was unresponsive while he hadn't answered

to him

, and

yet

(seeing as lane ninja'd me).
I don't consider this competence.
Ccl: I don't like Fire Assassin. I won't say it's alignment-indicative, but it's in no way town.

Why mention that you do not 'like' fire and then suddenly say it is not alignment indicative? Why mention it at all then?
I don't like this post at all...

Basically, I was just telling him to shut it and let conversations (real ones) happen. Also, it's a very soft scumread on the premise that he's alienating discussion, which is anti-town.

[The MM]

But the poker stuff IS a minigame, Fire. Also, that plan relies on trust in one player to work. If that player is scum, town's screwed. Besides, there's no such thing as a universally-townread player in here.
By the way, crappy hand: Fold.

First off, you are scum.
Second of the mini game helps us with the main game, its not just simple tacked on gimmick to keep us busy during the main game. We can use it to get closer to our win condition in the main game. By using the mechanics to our advantage, do you not get that?
We can't do what i am suggesting today, but I think we throw some games to Farside/Persivul tomorrow to get them some items/roles to use like BP and Tracker.
And yes, there is rarely a "universal" town read, but there is usually one enough people can agree on that is appropriate like 80% of us agree one player is town, its probably likely they are in fact town.

First off, you're scum. Now we're even. If you don't feel how stupid this sounds, you are bad and you should feel bad.
Second, yes, but I certainly wouldn't entrust my money to someone else, doubly not if it's you, BBT or RC, who have been in my eyes the most globally hostile players.
Third, I can already get Tracker anyway, so why should I bother giving it to anyone else?
Fourth, yes, sure, but we could post readslists and see if there's not one guy that gets the most townreads. Then again, I wouldn't consider that a good idea.

I'm bored and this game is going nowhere. Someone talk to me about s_s

Sure, I'll ISO s_s.
His 4 first posts are kinda filler, just like any early-game post, so it gives us little.
I never agreed with the first part of Post 45.
He didn't post between 52 and 120. Though 120 has him doubt some sheeping on him (from you no less), which is more likely to come from town.
His posts are relatively unnoticeable from there on until 188 which tossed questions to just about everyone, which I find town-ish. Aside from the doubtcasting on me and asking questions I think I had already answered.
Cue V/LA and he doesn't have a real post till Post 280. I don't like how he just says "Infinity looks towny" outta nowhere but I can't really contradict that so...
I like how s_s reacts in Post 306.
Then it's mostly quoting and quoting until his Magna vote in 377. I think it goes with how he never looked like he trusted him, so that's cool.
Post 390 soft-reads me as scum. Reaches its logical conclusion in Post 469.
Post 542 is a readslist. I understand the idea on BBT and RC, and I'm definitely in the same opinion as him, but he don't like me, which I also understand.
Post 571 I agree that 558 is ugly.

Conclusion:

Something_Smart is a null-town read to me. (To all of you who say "yay finally MM writes town or scum in a read yay", screw you.)

---

Also, I agree that we lack qubixes input.
And my two last lines:
-

Mod, I think I've already folded. If I didn't, fold.

- VOTE: Fire Assassin

[The MM]

Mm: why are you scum reading fire?

You're making a misassumption. I'm only saying "you are scum" with no backup to the claim as an imitation of him to prove how his argumentary sucks. Everything else you need to know about what I think of him is in my previous posts anyway.

[The MM]

Fire is just - shall I say - the player I'm the most disposed to dispose of. I don't have a scumread strong enough to commit to yet.

BBT, Wingback, FAQ, RC and qubixes are the other ones I feel less town than the rest. But none of them ticks me as much as Fire right now.

[The MM]

I think we need a votecount right about now.

Also, these conversations are getting me lost so much, I end up posting once every 3 pages, mostly because I'm not as decicated to this game as my previous ones, and by comparison noone makes me want to try.

Also, lane, why should town even entrust the hammer to you? I don't think calling dibs on the hammer is a town move in the first place. Only allows scum to hide.

[The MM]

From the recent posts I don't feel that FA_Q2 is scum, so, for farside, you have my best reason not to vote him. My vote is fine on Fire Assassin because the more I attempt to look for towncred in his posts, the less I find. Besides, arguing on my lynch with Infinity (who I have a soft townread on) seems really far-fetched: shouldn't he try to argue with me instead? No, instead he tries to just push people to wagon for me rather than asking for some defense.
I have this soft scumread on lane like a pinch on my side because my soft townread on him melted like dog poop after I saw his eagerness to hammer. That's a really easy excuse for scum to hide and be like: "I CALLED IT I'M TOWN!". Town just don't hammer like that, without at least calling out to the lynch target, even if we're close to deadline.
Also, I think farside is in too good a position right now. I get a feel that she's just going around questioning everybody and being low on responsiveness compared to all the questioning.

Here, you have them, my three top scumreads. Wingback and BBT might be there due to inactivity making it borderline impossible to find out if they were scum.

I'm not too confident is qubixes, FA_Q2 and RedCoyote, but I feel that they're just a bit too serious and that makes me not like their vibes, so they are actually soft townreads.
Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me: that wouldn't be an effective move to make for scum.

[The MM]

Oh, we don't have much time left. I think the situation requires a votecount.
And with extra replacements my few reads will turn out useless.

I'm liking farside's MO of not answering to avoid causing flame wars but sometimes it's unavoidable.
I hate this idea of a no-lynch but I don't feel like lynching FA_Q2 at the moment (even if he's the only person other than me who has a sorta wagon on them), so maybe I'll have to just refuse to lynch today. I know it's a bad move overall and I hate the idea, though, but I doubt scum are going to mess up this late into the day phase.

[The MM]

I just don't like the idea, but you're right in that it proves more than a no-lynch.
For your information, I dislike being pushed around.
Are you this confident that Fire is not scum but FA_Q2 is?

[The MM]

Seems we're on similar tracks. I hate following, but I suppose I got nothing better to do. I'm only setting my vote on FA_Q2 if deadline's too close, and he doesn't come up with some defense by then.

[The MM]

@S_S: You're basically saying that after a few days I'll be lynched anyway? Way to be nice.
But I get your point.

[The MM]

Lol happy 4th of July

To all of you americans.
This day has a completely different meaning to me.

[The MM]

We need a backup mod to show up, and we need to be on the ready:

(expired on 2016-07-05 18:30:00) left!

Also, wagon speed is NAI, as is survivalism IMO.

I think Fire is a better lynch than FA_Q2, because Fire Assassin is a rigue while FA_Q2 at least looks like he tries to be useful. Which means scum!FA_Q2 is much easier to catch than scum!Fire.

[The MM]

Do you have a scumread on him? Because I don't.

But if he was scum, there'd be more opportunities to catch him. Compare how they've been discussing.

[The MM]

@RC: Where did I scumread FA_Q2? Oh, that's right. Nowhere. (I did say I was not too confident in him in 709 though.) My opinion of him never changed. I don't really like FA_Q2 but I feel that it's just me being hurt.
Also, your hate on my reasoning is misreading my idea about that. FA_Q2 is not obvious scum.

@S_S: 74 is an accusation. I don't feel it's as awkward.
If by 87 FA_Q2 was caught scum you'd think you'd have voted it, yet it completely flew over your head till now.
I don't agree that 228 is a scumpost. We need not spread information that scum doesn't know. They already have hard intel on more than us. It'd be only right that I hide stuff.
I agree that FA_Q2 just ignored me after 242 though (welp, 556 does drop a word about me not being obvnewbtown).

Are you accusing a FAQ/MM scumteam? Besides, why would I be scumbuddies with FA_Q2. His "dodging" on the scum!MM theory is a bit scummy maybe, but I'm starting to hate being related to all crap-pushes in all the wrong ways. You were all "if MM is scum lane is scum" and now you're all like "if FAQ is scum, MM is scum". I'm not buddying FAQ2, I'm saying Fire is scummier. And just because he cannot defend himself in this situation due to V/LA doesn't mean he's townier.

[The MM]

Where did I scumread FA_Q2? Oh, that's right. Nowhere. My opinion of him never changed.

That's the thing.

Why have you been consistently calling FA town and trying to direct people away from him without showing any evidence of trying to sort him?

And the way you say "why would I be scumbuddies with FA_Q2" implies that there is a compelling reason for you

not

to be buddies. Since you pointed to none and there is none, it comes off simply as desperation at being caught.

Now you're trying to defend anything I say about him by simply contradicting my assertions, and conceding but waving away the things you can't contradict.

I feel really good about this lynch now.

Sometimes, things are better unchanged. I've always felt that FA_Q2 was scumhunting and we butted heads because he scumread me at some point.

I never flat-out called FA_Q2 town. The most I said was a slight townread. I remember also saying that I wasn't very confident in him. As far as directing people away, I haven't done that. I just went where I felt like, I'm not accountable for people following me.

FA_Q2 scumread me for half the day, from the moment I called on lane till even right now I'm sure he scumreads me. I don't get why an actual scumteam would even antagonize each other early in the game with no interest in doing so. And you're misinterpreting. It's not in 1 hour that you can push a lynch on me to see how wrong you are, but whatever.

Also, I have the right to contradict you in pointing truths opposite to your statement. Besides, I'm not waving away your points that I concede. I agree that FA_Q2 is an okay lynch, I just don't think it's the best one.

You're making me feel bad about it: where is the votecount..? I'll make one:

MM's last-hour votecount

FA_Q2 (4):

Wingback, Farside22, Something_Smart, RedCoyote

Fire Assassin (5):

lane0168, The MM, FA_Q2, BlueBloodedToffee, Infinity324

The MM (1):

Fire Assassin
Not voting yet: qubixes
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

My hands are tied anyway. We'd need someone else to pop by in the next hour if I wanted to hammer FA_Q2.

[The MM]

Seems like the site froze while I was camping here before deadline.
Hope we get an extension, because otherwise, that would just suck.

[The MM]

I agree that lane's eagerness to jump on your wagon is scummy, Fire, by the sheer speed of it. He might just have wanted the day with a lynch, though.
Also, I don't think I've ever said that you're town. This post above might be my only townread on you.

I've been spending the last hour before the crash being ready to switch my vote, just in case. But seeing Fire like that is a real clincher. I don't need the money so I'll just let infinity hammer if he wants to.

[The MM]

Thanks Lad, you're saving this game.

[The MM]

You have stated you thought I was town implicitly at least 2-3 times or at the very least no alignment. You have stated I was scum after I was voting you and pressuring you. This post screams more scumminess in various places that I dont' think I need to point out.

Fire, you misunderstand "not calling you scum" for "reading you as town".
Keep in mind, I supremely hate you independently of my reads.
The only things I certified were that you were being an asshat, and that you were acting in no way town.

[The MM]

@the mm, please explain why me starting the fire wagon is scummy for hopping on the fire wagon?

Just because of how fast you went on it, with no justification whatsoever at that. It's not a hard scumread but it's suspicious to me.

[The MM]

And by fast you mean the fastest? As in first? After previously scum reading him?

I was there before you man. I know this sounds hipster as shit, but I get the feel it's only after I pushed my idea that you went there.

[The MM]

Lane, I don't think beating FA_Q2 just to get some monies while we had a deadline extension until qubixes is replaced was a very good idea.
This play's either impatient or scum -- I have leanings on impatience though. I guess at this point we were all getting annoyed.

We just have to wait for the flip.

[The MM]

We should all be following the plan of betting and giving the hands to our townread.
Right now I am curious on that kill?
BBT wasn't really trying in the game if my memory serves right.

Seriously??!!
If you give a lot of money to a single player and IF they are town, scum know who they should NK.
If your townread is scum then lol.

QFT.

Also, killing BBT is as uninformative as it gets.

Also,

Fold

.

Attempting to put shade on lane here without really committing to it.
VOTE: MM
What would you have done differently?

First, maybe wait up: there was over 1 day before the deadline.
Lane just skipped you, giving you too little time to express yourself, before he kicked FA_Q2 out of the game. He just denied you opportunity to talk and potentially approve / disapprove, and he did that for what..?
Also, wanting money back on him at the cost of a foolish early hammer, especially taking some THAT WAY, just pings the hell out of my gut. Plus I take offense to your "without committing to it" thing. I commit.
VOTE: lane

Ninja'd

WHY THE HELL DO YOU STILL THINK GIVING MONEY LIKE THAT IS A GOOD IDEA?

[The MM]

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

Are you meaning that we should look at the reads made during day 1 and take them completely opposite? Who didn't even get real votes on? Who looks in control?

[The MM]

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell though.
If I didn't have a lane to vote for, I'd be doing the same. Farside's next post better be convincing tho.

[The MM]

Wait, why did I vote something_smart?
VOTE: the mm
Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

I won a hand, I was freaking Bulletproof. Read'em rules.
Come to think of it, I gotta win another hand today so I can be Bulletproof again and use your money safely. Hope I don't get derped by the system too much more.

Did it look like shadow was going to really more? He said he was reading, and went straight for intent to hammer and had time to talk . I'm not letting a replacement in that spot get a hammer. The day has gone on long enough.
What do you think shadow would've said that he couldn't say today? Or that would change the lynch? Nothing.
Plus you're probably scum so I'm not sure why I expect your case to make sense

There was one day. Of course it did.
I don't know, anything at all? Like, try to make his case as to why we should lynch X or not lynch Y. This would even give you reads on him. Only scum benefits from cutting comms.
Good to see we're mutual scumreads. Nah, it's not good, you either done goofed or are scum. I mean come on; the only reason I would be scum is taking

your

scumchips.

[The MM]

@mod: can abilities be used in the same night that they are bought ?

No. I tried.

Really? Why didn't they no kill then? How do you know scum aren't afraid of a tracker? And why isn't it smart for town to use a tracker?
What did the mm do last night?

Scum didn't no-kill because no-killing is useless in nearly all circumstances. Killing BBT was always going to be more efficient than no one.
I bought the Tracker and tried to use it, but I was denied by technicalities.
Also, getting the Tracker earlier on allows me to have maximum chances of tracking a kill rather than a bought ability. And if you track nothing, you get refunded, so no loss.

He can't afford it... So what about it?

I could afford it. It cost 1000$, I had 1160 or something. So yes, I bought it.

Here's the deal, if we don't get to use the items the night we buy them, we can't afford not to get all the powers.
If the mm bought the tracker, that's 4500 dollars left out there?
We need to get 2 people 1250. They can both get vengeful. This is the least we should try for.
2000 left. We get 2 people around 750. They can get jail keeper.
We'll go for who we think is Towniest?
That way we have the maximum abilities might 3?

Getting town vengefuls - known vengefuls - is ASKING for scum to go around and kill them later on. That has some bad points because welp, everybody knows this is who they're going after. But it has some good points in that a vengeful who survives is likely scum - but at this point killing them costs us a townie.

[The MM]

You're misunderstanding and misrepping now?

Anyone can be short-sighted: I thought that "each hand with one winner grants a Bulletproof", and the matter isn't even mod-cleared to me yet. Stop shitting all over me every chance you get.
I'm doing that already but VOTE: lane because you're being a bag of seriously messed-up crap.

[The MM]

Scum would definitely know only people on the lynch get money.
Town make obvious mistakes like that.
Its in the rules.
Therefore you're scum

Reading the rules is not only for scum.

Anyone want to comment on my plan to throw games so one of us tomorrow gets BP and good abiliites?
Or we just going to treat the poker stuff as a mini game?

But the poker stuff IS a minigame, Fire. Also, that plan relies on trust in one player to work. If that player is scum, town's screwed. Besides, there's no such thing as a universally-townread player in here.
By the way, crappy hand:

Fold

.

@shadow, how do you feel about about the mm using being bulletproof as an explanation for why he wasn't killed last night, when yesterday he commented on a plan to get one person to win so they were bulletproof, saying that plan relies on trust in one player to work? Also after something_smart talked about the rule?

I think its bullshit.

To all of you munchkin rules-lawyers, slip police and other self-righteous jackasses: I thought that Bulletproof went to any player who won his hand by himself. Ties can happen, and all.

Lane's reaction strikes me as frustrated town, but that maight be simulated, still, I'll voice another suspicion of mine: farside sounds to me like the kind of "in-control" self-defined intelligent people who I'd expect a BBT kill from. VOTE: farside
I am going to flail a lot, but be wary that if you don't answer well I'm gonna track your tail till the end of time like it's noone's business.

[The MM]

Bet $40

I have no idea why everyone is folding when we can organize this much better.
Just frustrating me and I am probably going to stop talking about this mechanic and just focusing on scumhunting.

I have town reads on Lane and Wingback,
I feel pretty confident on those, I am thinking that MM is scum, but unsure of allies still.
Something Smart possibly not sure on who with?

Farside I am null on but I could possibly see it.

TOo many preflip asosciations.

I say we flip MM today and if we are wrong we can reaccess.

ANyone elses thoughts? (Not on the poker mechanics that we obviously can't do)

I'm folding because I have no interest in tossing the little that remains of my money to the first lucjy guy, that's pretty much that. Antes will probably eat at the rest of my wallet like popcorn but it barely matters at this point.

Lynching me is exactly what scum want you to do; it's the reason they left me alive in the first place since I wasn't BP. Now consider why I was left alive.

Possibly seeing me and farside as scum is kinda dumb imo, considering I've said I'm kinda scared of scum!farside, maybe you were too busy drowning in your own made-up scumtells on me to notice.

Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.

Really? So you're completely writing off the possibility for the mm scum as well. Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. The mm can't possibly be scum. The only explanation is he must be mislynch bait. What the fuck? There are several reasons he should be lynched. Love how he's one of the leading wagons all day yesterday and all of a sudden hes lynch bait.

All your monies are belong to me, which ofc would make me lynch bait because scum wants the power roles dead. It's one of the few cases where

town wins nothing

. As for your several reasons I should be lynched, your dumbassery doesn't count as a reason, me having the Tracker shot is a reason NOT TO LYNCH ME, and of course I've been making the fire wagon, so you're relying too much on fire not to be scum.

Infinity. Why is the mm town then? Why do you townread him?

He seems like frazzled noob town the whole game and has been going against the flow mainly. He seems to believe what he says.

I don't like the term "frazzled" for some reason. Going against the flow is kind of in my personality, especially when the flow is dictated by other people.
Also, the only people with no reason to believe what they say are lying scum. Townies only lie for gambits, and even then that's pretty horrid.

Lane looks like in the middle of a meltdown that is so incredibly stupid I can't get a true read on him because he pushes for my lynch like his life depends on it. Which makes no fucking sense.

Farside hasn't satisfied me. Calling me blatantly scummy means squat because I don't abide by your standards anyway; deal with it. You'd have to explain how in factual terms. Otherwise, I'll just treat that as throwing shade around for no reason.

[The MM]

On the next hand, I want the mm to bet 300. He should have no problem with this, because if he doesn't have that much money, it can't go through.

Pish. I already folded anyway. Heck I don't even care about being all-in at this point, I just wanna choose who I'm giving my monies to.

So if you were town youd realize the only way to get power roles was to maximize poker hands

Notice how doing this hastily can lead to scum getting PRs, laneplz.

Nice. I'm actually not sure how much money you have mm. So just bet 500 so we can be sure. I just want to know you bought tracker. Then we know for sure someone needs 1250. It's the town thing to do.

I'd bet $1000, but hey, I folded already.

Nice. I'm actually not sure how much money you have mm. So just bet 500 so we can be sure. I just want to know you bought tracker. Then we know for sure someone needs 1250. It's the town thing to do.

I don't understand(?)
What is the use of governor or vengeful to town ?

The primary use is depriving scum of these roles. No lynch-stall or reward for getting lynched. But it's a major waste of town's money. Then again, town's uses for JK is scarce and it can just whiff entirely without refund, etc... Honestly, to my eyes, nothing is as worth as a tracker - except maybe the neighborizer, and even then.

When the poker hand is over, I'll bet $500 just so you know I'm not talking shit. Or alternatively, I won't just so you continue wannabe-tunnelling on me and scum don't kill me next night too. Heh heh heh, who knows..?

[The MM]

I'm folding because I have no interest in tossing the little that remains of my money to the first lucjy guy, that's pretty much that. Antes will probably eat at the rest of my wallet like popcorn but it barely matters at this point.
Lynching me is exactly what scum want you to do; it's the reason they left me alive in the first place since I wasn't BP. Now consider why I was left alive.
Possibly seeing me and farside as scum is kinda dumb imo, considering I've said I'm kinda scared of scum!farside, maybe you were too busy drowning in your own made-up scumtells on me to notice.
Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.

No, no, no, no.
You can't explain why scum left you alive, you can let others speculate, but you can't say "I am a mislynch bait" that makes it all null. Self awareness of the situation can be more scummy than town, if you understand you are likely lynch target that isn't more scummy I don't think, but its definitely not points in your favor.
And we all wanted you to fold anyways, because you are a scum suspect, why would we want you to win?
Also, why are you attacking you and farside as alignment but not any of my others, why does that sound more ridiculous beyond "I am scared of scum farside!" cause that doesn't sound like a actual reason for you two not being aligned?
Then you call my scumtells "fake", listen if I am faking it, I am scum, right?
WHy do i get sense of you keep going back and forth between wanting to call me town and wanting to call me just hard scum but don't want to commit.

Oh, given what I know, I can take guesses as to why I'm still alive with Lane's money free for use, thank you very much Mr. NoonehastherighttothinkthingsIdont.
It's not "everyone". You and your cronies, a minority of vocal douchebags, wanted me to fold. Difference. I did it out of self-interest anyway. As for why I "should" have won, well do the words "Bulletproof Tracker" sound powerful enough for you?
Also, I was scared of scum!farside because you (as well as a bunch of other people) are just licking her feet and guess what? She's antagonizing me too. It's worth a scumread. Keep in mind, y'all were scumreading Magna, but now farside has replaced it's like she's town regardless of slot. Disgusting.
I don't exactly recall where I called your reads fake, but I think my scumread on you is set in stone. The more I tried to play like you're town, the more you make me scumread you. I read you as scum for life, and so until the game proves me wrong, but one thing's for sure, you won't.

Alright you're going to have to say them again, I certainly haven't seen any good reason to scumread mm. It's possible I skimmed over them cause I really just didn't see it.

Don't bother to pretend to skim, you are dying tonight regardless.

This sounds like something scum would say. Why would they kill Infinity? Oh yeah, to push for my mislynch some more, since Infinity's the only guy with the right idea on me.

It's really not a good idea to kill me tonight.

Shooting scum is always good idea.

Shooting scum? With what? You can't even. Now you're just being a retard.

MM may not have strong reads, but he definitely has strong opinions...
I agree with the part where there's no case on MM.

No he doesn't.
His opponent ions are weak as shit.
"Fire is scum because he called me scum" "farside is scum because she scares me as scum"
Ignoring is one past game played on this site from you is horse shit.

Discrediting me for my past game as town? Yeah right, great idea. This is bullshit. Scumflag for the pointless-ass shade casting.

[The MM]

Also, I was scared of scum!farside because you (as well as a bunch of other people) are just licking her feet and guess what? She's antagonizing me too. It's worth a scumread. Keep in mind, y'all were scumreading Magna, but now farside has replaced it's like she's town regardless of slot. Disgusting.
I don't exactly recall where I called your reads fake, but I think my scumread on you is set in stone. The more I tried to play like you're town, the more you make me scumread you. I read you as scum for life, and so until the game proves me wrong, but one thing's for sure, you won't.

Few things here:
1) When has anyone been licking Farside boots and
2) Where has anyone called her strong town? or even massively switched reads on the slot?
I know I have her as weak town at best right now and thats a recent development.
Your scumread is "set in stone"? Okay. Good work.

1) It's a metaphor. I barely see anyone questioning farside.
2) Actions speak louder than words, and noone has ever attempted anything on farside.

Shooting scum? With what? You can't even. Now you're just being a retard.

I am a vigilante. Do you think the only power roles town has are the ones from these poker matches? Ha, that's funny.

You would definitely have killed me if given the chance last night. This is a fakeclaim for sure. Even if there is a power role, I'm sure it's NOWHERE this powerful. Because really in this way you don't benefit from anyone getting money from poker hands.

VOTE: Fire Assassin
Anything else can slide, but the sheer amount of stupidity and plot hole logic in you is enough for me to blow a lid right now.

[The MM]

Waiting on the mm to bet 500

In the end, it's but a few dollars but lane really wants to see it, so go ahead and laugh at how puny my 500$ actually are like.

Raise $500

Now shut up and take my money.

SS and Fire is town-town, who else is going to have the balls to say this?

What in their interactions makes you think that ?

I think I'm going to require proof that Fire is town, because nothing he does is town. Even though I'm guilty of the game philosophy I accused him of having (playing for myself only), at least I have the excuse of being scumread by all the guys who can't be bothered to really know how I play; I need one thing that says he's town. I find none.

[The MM]

The real question is "why should he be a town read"? He's been antagonizing me for a while with barely any reason.

I'll highlight all his posts.

254: First post taunting.
256: Nobody has any business saying they're "probably" scum. I read that as

dumb

.
272-274: Saying lane is scum for no reason and asking someone for why he's not. I read that as

selfish

.
I notice now that he stays non-committal while casting shade. I read that as

[PG -18]

.
297: Agreeing with truth. Attacking lane for being a yes man has little point when he was one, and he ends up attacking me later over that.
405: Vote for no reason.
423-424,426: No read on the card. Everyone makes oversights, but the fact that he attacks me on my oversights when I make one and he's guilty of that reads

morally ailed

.
427: Angry for no reason.
428: Swing reads on Pers and MMe bring nothing to the table.
432: It's basically just a pisstake on Pers.
434: Avoiding debate. Sometimes you're just annoyed, so that can slide, it's not really town though.
443: "90% is non-commentable" is a nice way to bail out of making reads.
444: Realizing your doucheprick-style isn't gonna help anyone but yourself and still keeping on with it voluntarily.
445 did nothing.
448: Misunderstanding. Giving off this feeling of "it's all about me" is a scumtell because scum is a minority (one that you generally act apart of to avoid team-pushing killing the scumteam). Denying the scumtell is a scumread.
449: Hates buddying. Buddying is not only a way for scum to hide, but it's also a way for town to form credblocks that can sway the game.
450: The tunnel-vision starts here. The only information I have that you guys don't have is that I got by reading the rules. The rest is speculations and deductions. Calling me "the right lynch for the day" off of one scumread.
451 is a dumb strategy as it encourages giving out little hands and counts entirely on luck anyway.
454 & 456 are an attempt to side-track conversation, thus shutting down town's one scumhunting tool. This reads

shoulda-shut-up

.
459 is right in that Infinity didn't elaborate on his reasons.
461 does not explain how much I seem "informed".
464: Stupid accusations. Playing alone doesn't mean you rolled a role that requires you to play alone. Scum play the majority of the game alone.
465 is an ignore post. Ignoring people isn't town.
551 is basically trying to ascend the minigame into more than what it is. With a glance back, he shouldn't even care that much if he's a vig.
560 just says "my plan is flawless" when it isn't. If everyone calls on an all-in, the money would just go to the idiot who had the bigger hand, not anyone of your choice. So scumreading people who deviate from the "flawless" plan is a dumb move. Also he keeps attacking me there without really backing himself up.
566, and the tunnel-vision continues! And he bullheadedly thinks his plan is still awesome when I think the flaws were already highlighted.
580-582 is bringing up something of the past, but also shows how Fire never seems to say when he changes reads. Once again, communication failure -- or just made-up stuff.
591-592 is basically unrepentance for how much of a scumbag he is. If you're town you should at least try to look town.
598: It's weird how he gets self-conscious to RC and not for other people all of a sudden. Reads as

buddying

.
600 is a sick joke about the fact that he's probably scum.
606, 608: Still chasing RC's tail.
619 is just an insult to me, after a distraction.
623 is a self-quote for extra distraction.
659 adds some extra fuel. If your asset as scum is "looking unaligned", DON'T BE SURPRISED WHEN I SCUMREAD YOU FOR LOOKING UNALIGNED!
660 is doubt-casting on something_smart.
681, 683: You say he's easy mislynch bait and still you'll end up lynching him at day-end, knowing this.
688, 690, 694: Gradual loss of interest, blank mind for more blurred comms. Scumyays. "You admit I look pro-town", tho.
695 would be fine if you'd just acknowledge being annoyed and all, but your anger is just fuel for doubt-casting on Infinity this time.
697 is full of Fire's trademark arrogant self-serving gameplay. "My reaction was NAI and I said it wasn't." is but the cherry on the stupid cake. Fire needs to realize he doesn't define the game. Then he won't break down on touch.
762 is like "I need to save my life".
769 is BS anyway.
821 is padding and still pushing the bad plan.
832 is still easy doubt-casting.
833. I don't know how you cannot understand the obvious. Playing dumb to block comms again..?
844 and 864 is looking to buddy lane.
865 is pushing me s'mores because apparently that's what Fire does.
868: Read the rules.
874 is again a gratuitous attack on someone for not understanding something.
904 is a sudden change of direction, with a reasoning that misunderstands the sensible choice of flipping reads around (earlier that day, it had been expressed that the BBT killed was likely meant not to aim at the big talkers for the reason they were potentially all wrong).
905: A day was enough for smart to change reads.
930 includes a townread on Wingback (who had no really substantial and unique post back then and only promised a catchup 3 posts earlier). And pushes for my lynch s'mores without committing and redirecting his vote.
947 starts with a lie "I'm not lynching you now" while his vote was still on smart. Scumreads him after saying that, and backs off for no reason other than he think he's tunnely. On smart.
948 is setup speculation. Not useful.
950 is right back to scumreading smart, with 992 and 993 being more or less Fire continuing his pushing of his ideas.
994 might just be demoralization, but since it's stating a flat simple truth, that slides...
995 is another attack on me. I agree that I went like him and counted the things I know and you don't as universal truth. But still, he's just being a douche here.
1001 is stating a "fact" with no proof, just to quickly dismiss someone. Attempt at taking Infinity out the conversation, and it goes on...
1009: Threatening people with a gun is not a smart move. Then again, back then I didn't notice the vig claim, but hey, it might as well be a fakeclaim and he's scum.
1014, 1016: TUNNEL-VISIOOOON
1023: Reaction to my ideas on farside are scummy, with a (purposely?) weak read. The rest of this and 1024 is blatant douchebaggery.
1034 might be dubbed Attack on Infinity because that's all it does.
1043 is a plan that contradicts with his idea of giving BP to someone, but hey, might as well run a maximum of hands since BP is inaccessible anymore.

So yeah, I see him as near-entirely devoid of townieness right now. Does that explain?

[The MM]

Ugh I hate getting interrupted!!!
This is going to be sloppy.
I didn't read the long post by MM. The first 4 along was misinterpretation big time.
Second I'm a replacement here. I didn't sign up to see how many players started this game so I naturally assumed mini theme being 12 to 13 players. Rc should be lynched for making no case and sitting up the thread.
Mm should be lynched because he's scum.
I fully endorse my own lynch just so people will look hard as fuck at rc and his complete lack of scum hunting this game day and day 1.
I got to go now.

If the first 4 are misinterpreted, I think you should go and check around the next 90 or so. Voluntary ignoring.
You're basically flailing even more desperately than I am and trying to get people lynched for some reason. Maybe RC and I are not scum if you are, but lol.

Waiting on the mm to bet 500

In the end, it's but a few dollars but lane really wants to see it, so go ahead and laugh at how puny my 500$ actually are like.

Raise $500

Now shut up and take my money.

Seriously, you just gave away your money?
If you guys think this is scum I don't even

Fold

Welp, my money would get eaten up by antes in a few hands or so because I have like $100 or a bit more left. I have no reliable way to make it 550 in short time, so I figure keeping these few pennies to me has no use.

I could also see RC as scum btw, I don't remember any of his posts since I stopped scumreading him d1 and that's probably a bad thing.

Just ISO him. I'm sure he has a big absence period.

This game isn't worth the headache:
VOTE: MMDon't remember why I was voting SS over MM, but he is also in my scum pool. Shooting Infinity tonight. MM gets lynched today.
That about settles it.

I didn't know it was written in the rules that you had to be an ass. I remember a Vig forcing me along, but at least for all the douchebaggery he played his Vig with he had the decency to threaten townies with his Vig shot as a scumhunting plan. You have no such excuse for behaving like a complete douchebag like you do right now.

Catching up from page twenty-one. Finished up to page thirty-eight. I wanted to get current but I'm totally exhausted and there are a lot of recent walls so I'll get to those tomorrow.

I think you and Pers directly pushed MM more than I did, but I think I was most effective at stopping the opposition, so to speak, from forming other wagons outside of MM.

1) Who is this oppposition? 2) What wagons were they trying to form? 3) How did you stop them (links to posts and arguments you made where your arguments derailed a wagon)?

Also, farside, you must act on your poker hand in your next post or you will get scum points from me. Same with Wingback. I'm putting you two on notice.

What does acting on a poker hand have anything to do with alignment?

Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me

Scum white-knighting town is not uncommon, and if he's a bit "too nice," why is he your top townread?

I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too.

You had your vote on MM before you moved it to FA_Q2. Why does an FA_Q2 townflip mean that MM is town? If you didn't have independent reasons to think he was scum, why were you voting him?

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell though. If I didn't have a lane to vote for, I'd be doing the same. Farside's next post better be convincing tho.

Hate the hedging here. Defends Farside against Shadow while at the same time setting up to push Farside. Why even add that last bit?

100% agree with Lane's Post 888. In fact, nearly everything The MM said this game sounds like bullshit.

I thought that Bulletproof went to any player who won his hand by himself. Ties can happen, and all.

This doesn't make any sense. If you correctly thought that "

if only a single player wins a hand on any Day phase they will be Bulletproof the following Night phase"

, as it mentions in the OP, then you would know that you weren't bulletproof since I won a hand too. If you incorrectly thought that all players who won hands in a day became bulletproof that night, why didn't you as Lane said, suggest that we all win a hand?

I'll voice another suspicion of mine: farside sounds to me like the kind of "in-control" self-defined intelligent people who I'd expect a BBT kill from. VOTE: farside

Why Farside as opposed to say, RedCoyote? It seemed to me that RedCoyote and BBT knew each other well from the past. When BBT got killed, that was the first person I considered looking back at.

[MoI] may have wanted to get out of dodge this game because he thought he was setting himself up to get pressured.

I find that hard to believe. Played with him in Mini 1800. He was scum there and suspected plenty but he stuck with the game and his team ended up winning. If you are actually arguing that you think he left the game because he was scum and afraid of getting pressured, that's a ridiculous assumption. You've spent most of D1 telling Farside how you and she are town together but a BBT kill suddenly makes you decide that your townreads are wrong? This reads opportunistic considering Farside was getting some heat from a few others as well.

I guess you just skimmed over the part where I said I had to essentially rethink my entire game and throw D1 out the window. Two of my biggest scumreads just flipped town.

This isn't accurate. BBT was your top scumread but when did FA_Q2 become one of your biggest scumreads? All you said about FA_Q2 was that you are not opposed to his lynch but you didn't think that was the best we could do which sounds like you had him as null at worst. You said the same for MM but MM seemed to be a higher scumread than FA_Q2. Why do BBT and FA_Q2 flipping town means you throw all your D1 scumreads out the window? In fact, BBT hopped onto the MM wagon putting him at L-1 which was what triggered you to jump off of MM and go for BBT instead. Now that we know BBT was in fact town, that should alleviate at least some of your reservations about an MM lynch.

---

That's the end of page thirty-eight. Going to get current tomorrow. I have a few comments on optimal poker strategy as well which I'll get into, and then summarize all my reads in detail.

1- Not my thing to answer.
2- Stalling poker hands denies some townies the chance to go after PRs, plus it undeniably kills the gimmick of this game.
3- It's a question of vibe, he doesn't feel like that much of a white knight to me. Plus if Fire is gonna be a douche and shoot Infinity tonight, I have 3 times less reason to worry about him anyway.
4- Not addressed to me.
5- You're getting it wrong. While I was setting up on Farside, this wasn't defending Farside as much as asking Shadow to find a true argument so he doesn't make the pressure look scummy. You're just reading everything wrong, like Fire and so many before you. Now that random townread of his on you is suspicious to me.
6- Who in their right mind would want scum to win a hand? Plus there is never enough time to put such a farce in place.
7- First, RC was scumread by a few people at a point in the game, which farside has never been. And as far as RC and BBT knowing each other goes, how in the blue hell was I supposed to know that? I've been here for like 5 months, 2 of which I was off the internet. Tell me how I was supposed to even guess that these 2, who I barely gave a damn about, "knew each other well from the past"? For something of relatively minor importance on top of that.
8- That'd be uber-meta levels of crafty as hell. As far as turning on Farside goes, I think it was very pertinent, considering the BBT kill was somewhat uninfluent, as to not rock the boat, as whoever said. So it's natural people would try to rock the boat and flip the table, isn't it? Also, you're confusing "2 of my biggest scumreads" with "my 2 biggest scumreads": there's plenty of place for an extra in my 3 biggest scumreads, and that still counts as "2 of my biggest scumreads". Also, two wrongs do not make a right: BBT's vote for me will not be right just because he flipped town.

[The MM]

But why did you check wingback? Literally nobody suspected that slot

Lane, think of it a second. You were scumreading me for keeping my money, and now you're still scumreading me for keeping it.
That's self-serving morality, so you'd deserve a little FU there. You're basically asking me whether I want a rope for freaking barbed wire for a noose, but you're like wanting to give me a noose regardless.

I think you're more a VI than actual scum, though.

But why did you check wingback? Literally nobody suspected that slot.

Is that a reason not to? No, it's not.

[The MM]

@the mm, I was never scum reading you for keeping your money. You continually respond to things that were never said. If you had kept your money that would be a scum claim. Scum still benefit from buying the tracker, and in fact if you are scum, I'm not surprised that's what you did. However, I'm willing to see where your tracker goes tonight.

Quotes aren't important, I included what you said was Townie, and why its not.

What part of "keep your money is a scumclaim" doesn't mean that you'll scumread me for keeping my money?
Besides, I'm keeping my Tracker target secret in hopes I end up tracking the NK.

[The MM]

You know, I considered doing it just to insult you because it'd actually change nothing.
Consider that trying to be nice and work with you a little.

[The MM]

Saying that only RC has a shitty attitude in here is a sin.

[The MM]

Getting uneasy with potential scum shadow taking all of mm's money. Reads list now, shadow.

This.

What does scum lose by giving their money away?! WHAT DOES SCUM LOSE BY GIVING THAT MONEY AWAY?!?!
WHAT WOULD THEY GAIN?!?!
STOP USING THAT AS A TOWN TELL!!!

This.
Plus he lied about having a tracking ability, which I stated he would just lie. Mm was forced to bet or be lynched.

Seriously? Agreeing with a delusional capslock'd rant? The ugh is strong.
"Forced to bet or be lynched"? That's because y'all are being complete douchebags.
Also, I didn't lie, I bought the freaking Tracker. Meaning you, farside, are officially stupid.

Well that's cause your conf biased as fuck
Giving away $200 is a pretty big deal, I wouldn't have done it in town!mm's position but as scum!mm it makes no sense.

The reason why I did so. Even though given my hand it's not a direct giveaway.

Well that's cause your conf biased as fuck
Giving away $200 is a pretty big deal, I wouldn't have done it in town!mm's position but as scum!mm it makes no sense.

I don't understand how its a big deal if everyone asked him to do it, he caved basically into pressure, when everyone pressuring him he called scum or anti town.
Like, if I was in the mental state that he is trying to display in his posts. I would have 100% not given in and kept my money and said "no, I know my alignment, I am not giving into my scumreads to give up my money" Like....can you not see the flip side, you say we conf bias, but so do you!

You're not pressuring me, you're just being bullies and doucheturding around me claiming everything I do is scum. So if you continue to play like that, well eat dirt, freaks.

PS:

Yes, I acknowledge I've devolved into something worse than Fire in the end. I'm working alone and playing however I feel benefits me. But if y'all hadn't been scumcalling me all game I could have people to trust.

Lane, Fire Assassin and farside all need an attitude adjustment. At least 1 is scum, likely Fire, perhaps farside because Fire is too obvious. Remember that.

[The MM]

You guys are just going to scumcall anyone who even has a hint of going to defend me, yeah, sure, stay there.

Also, how's the poker hand going?

Also, Fire Assassin's vig claim was probably just to

pressure

bully people and try to look like he keeps his head in the game. From the lack of reactions, it looks like it's working.

What makes you think I "could" be scum ?

I have a town lean on lane and farside is nullish town.
Scum lean on MM and RC.
FA is prob town to, but I can't really say.
It doesn't make sense for town FA to claim vig when he was no under pressure what so ever.
If scum have a roleblocker or jailkeeper or any such role which prevents FA from shooting they'll keep doing that to him to wifom us or just hope he shoots a town or just kill him off.
It also could be scum gambit between you and FA, something you planned at night to clear whoever comes out of that alive for the rest of the game.

You're nullish scum for me.

Smart and wingback are null.

Y'know, as long as you're not conftown, which you're obviously not, you could be scum. You've replaced into qubixes, who wasn't the most townread of people. My only conftown is myself, and so it is for everyone in the game but the scum.
The lack of pressure makes it a likely fakeclaim coming from scum (because who else has the ability to kill?) to me, but since Fire will not explain anything to me I really hope you can force answers out of him as to why he would do that.
Only setup speculation here but the roleblocker, yes, is likely to be scum imo, which makes my Tracker claim utter bait when I think about it.
Scum are either likely to kill me now because they're at risk of Tracker (they probably read the rules about that), or just to let you lynch me because people are on their way to lynch a Tracker.

Readslist:
Town:
- Infinity: I'm having doubts about that buddying, but at this level it doesn't look self-motivated. Scum would likely have cleared themselves out and let me die rather than defending me.
- Something_Smart: Just feels really thought-out townie to me, anything past 1107 that is.
Null:
- Shadow_step: Might be scummy, but so far he looks like he just cooperates whenever asked, with the little amount of twonish doubt.
- Wingback: Barely even in the game, so even if he's "conftown" I don't really care.
- lane: Reads VI all over to me, with scummy tendencies like bandwagoning on me, with Fire and farside completing the little dastardly party.
Scum:
- farside: The unexpected unconditional backing of Fire is buddying to fire, and so far people seem unsuspicious. The gratuitous extra insulting to me was probably done to cater to lane.
- Fire Assassin: I've spent days explaining why. From stalling scumhunting and that unprompted claim gambit, he's nearly overpinged my scumdar.

There might be 3 scum in the game and I might reverse a few of my reads of the second nightkill is on Fire.

[The MM]

I've seen it change positions pretty recently. It was normal when I first came, but I think it's been declared way too strong to be normal.