Newbie 2031 - The Wild Hunt (End!)

[shellyc]

hi everyone im probably the most inexperienced SE ever

repped in because i wanted to have a fun time in feryland + plist looks pretty cool

i now hate this mod because they broke my streak of rolling scum

Fun Fact: all bar one of my games have been scum games

I'll get to reading after I get some coffee

[shellyc]

quack

yes i am town

[shellyc]

SHELLY
STOP
REPLACING
INTO
SCUM
SLOTS

Look
At
Me
I am
So
Town

convinced?

[shellyc]

secrets

assuming this is serious but banterous voting, I like Mundivore off pg1-2, slightly like redados and feel iffy about clarkbar.

Don't try shading me because I have the full indestructible town energy

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

I feel like I should have an opinion on this comment and the way they back down from it shortly after. But if I did I'd be pretending and I'm too cool to pretend. So let's just say this is an interesting callout and I don't think they're scum together.

"But if I did I'd be pretending" sounds self aware, +3 scumpoints

Okay, catching up and starting. My apologies. And I still have to figure out an avatar. My townly pet rabbit had townista surgery and has needed a lot of townish care. So just getting to this right town, I mean right now. I guess I'll leave my affiliation a mystery. But it behooves me to say that Bluebell isn't such a silly name for Feryland. "Clarkbar" on the other hand... hmm.
VOTE: Clarkbar

This is so wholesome. Bluebell why did you pick Clark to vote here? It doesn't feel random

why are you prodding someone after their RANDOM voting stage vote

Putting out your reads at E-1 is something you can expect from scum(but also from town). However, they have

found

too many things there. At this point, it is likely scum trying to find things to make comments about nearly everyone.
What's worse is that all they have posting since leaving E-1 is posting fluff. Looks like scum being relieved from having been at E-1 and assuming their wagon breaks down.
VOTE: Satisfaction
This is scum.

Vote it out.

i'm pretty lukewarm on this read, but i think nk15 believes it

why do you think nk15 believes a super early E-1

Welcome TW, happy to be playing with you again.

you too my friend <3


quick lazy reads off read-up
town: {tw}
townread: {reda}
townlean: {mundi, sati, maybe nk15? i don't know help}
null: {egix, bbellz}
scumlean: {arthur, clark}

i'm p comfortable keeping my vote on arthur for the momentttttt

worsty despite shading clark (me) why do you never vote it? thats straight out weird

I think I've seen two different people say that if one of us is scum, the other probably isn't (or maybe you, twice? I'd have to check).

If I haven't said this, I agree. I also think you're more likely both-town before both-scum.

That said, I'm just as wary that it's town versus town. If so, would that make an elim between us less informative?

eh, eliminations are rarely good because they're informative.
they're good because they're on scum, or townies who were distracting enough that we'd need to kill them to elim scum.

If I was under a hammer right now you wouldn't hear me screaming, "Get Arthur tomorrow after I flip town!"

i can see this. you're solving arthur.

The post that started our whole beef could have just as easily been an eager Arthur wanting to contribute to a game that had just started, but not feeling very confident, as it could have been him trying to test the waters or draw suspicion towards me.

My entire response to this was "but how did his read on you develop?" but I think you're already searching for agendas so I don't really have anything of value to add. yeah. Arthur's trajectory reads fake but he's not overtly bleeding obvscum everywhere by any stretch. That said, I think there's a good deal of townier players in this plist which generally means a slot I *don't* townread is more likely to be scum (unless my reads suck).

this sets off bells, seems like you're trying to fill space up with words and generally flippantly pocketing satisfaction who i think is pretty townie so far
VOTE: the worst

DIE MAFIA SCUM!!

[shellyc]

ftr noraa's play looks pretty similar to their play in newbie 2027 + 2028 so I have a super SR on that slot, a super TR on satisfaction
and maybe a townlean on redados

[shellyc]

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

good trying to produce content and get us out of RVS

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Egix96, I'd like to hear what you think about what I am seeing as a backpedal by Arthur.

I think you are perhaps overreading things. What makes you think I was fishing for support? Even you agreed that would be very weak. I also explained that I was trying to generate discussion and clearly stated in my original post that it was probably NAI. If anything, it feels more like you're trying to start a wagon on me for arbitary reasons.

FoS Satisfaction

good making early read but this is like 99% TvT?

Hooold up there,

@Not Known 15.

You've probably just done the scummiest thing yet in this game. Please explain why I shouldn't transfer my vote to you. You put Satisfaction at E-1 and not even a reason? You're practically begging to be scumread.

that e-1 is probably TSTBS

Reread Part 2:

Noraa:

Ok, so at the start Noraa was kinda sitting on the fence. Not really saying much either way. Then he starts saying I'm scummy and later votes me in post #105. Really he only gives one reason-post:

Spoiler:

Hooold up there,

@Not Known 15.

You've probably just done the scummiest thing yet in this game. Please explain why I shouldn't transfer my vote to you. You put Satisfaction at E-1 and not even a reason? You're practically begging to be scumread.

I agree but u don't seem much less scummy tbh. At this point in time it just seems like ur trying really hard to start all the wagons so you can make sure ur partner and u r safe

I read my own ISO at this point to see if I was starting "all the wagons." Uh no. The only guy I focused on from the start was Satisfaction. Never started any other wagons. You can read my ISO if you want. So I feel like Noraa's one reason for voting me is quite weak.

I'm leaning scum on Noraa, but less scummy than Mundivore. Either that or he's not a very pro-town player.

yay someone is vibing with my noraaworst scumread

Part 4?

Redados:

Overall, I'm leaning town on Redados. His reads and analysis are reasonable, even if he has the inverse of my reads. Btw I hate meta
One thing I would like to ask you. In post #129 you said Mundivore was town. Would like to hear some reasons please.

Satisfaction:

Best for last? XD

Spoiler:

On the off chance that a wild hammer slips in and I don't get the chance to share, here are all of my notes as of right now:

Noraa (Neutral-town feels. Buddying me or teamwork?)
36: Defends me / dismisses suspicion. Reasonable, townish.
92: Presses Not Known when he votes for me with no comment. Townish, hunting.

Mundivore (low participation)
52: Says what I was thinking re: Arthur suspicion. Pings town, but could be mafia pulling a string.

Bluebell --- no substantive contribution by page 3 (but came in late)
84: she's rhyming, which is fun, but not contributing on page 4

Redados (town or smart scum)
44: "practically everything in RVS is NAI" -- agreed
50: presses Mundivore to weigh in on my intro (hunting or performative towniness)
63: direct, succinct answer to my weak probe. No attitude or defensiveness. Pings town.

ArthurConyl (no read, might be noob scum)
35: Weakly agrees with Egix's weak push on me.
40: Backs down quickly when challenged by Noraa. Testing waters or changing mind?
78: Tries to defend himself. Maybe flustered, maybe floundering to cover backpedal. Read meta.
93: Reacts to Not Known's silent E-1 vote on me. Says he is "begging to be scumread." Does not remove his own vote, leaves me at E-1. Pings scum.

Egix96 (SE) (lurking)
33: First non RVS comment of the game + vote. Page 2. Makes weak poke at me. Hunting?
81: Confirms that his initial vote was supposedly serious. Dismisses backpedaling theory in support of Arthur. Mildly pings scum. Read meta.

ClarkBar (SE) --- no substantive contribution by page 4 (working over the weekend)

Not Known 15 (SE) (mild town, need more)
54: Goes out of his way to weigh in on my intro issue without being pressed directly. Pings town.
90: Votes for me based on Artur's pushback. Only quotes, no comment. I think this is town applying pressure. Buuuut claims to not know the vote count. That seems cavalier but not necessarily scummy.

Actually I do like this post. I would read you town for it. But it feels like you're trying hard to say everything and nothing at the same time. The section about me, fair. I do have a big problem with you not acknowledging my post #73:

Spoiler:

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Egix96, I'd like to hear what you think about what I am seeing as a backpedal by Arthur.

I think you are perhaps overreading things. What makes you think I was fishing for support? Even you agreed that would be very weak. I also explained that I was trying to generate discussion and clearly stated in my original post that it was probably NAI. If anything, it feels more like you're trying to start a wagon on me for arbitary reasons.

FoS Satisfaction

In both your posts, #91 and #98, you should have addressed it. In #91 you stated that I was lying. This is very much what I would expect scum to do. I would expect town to keep pushing and prodding, asking me why I do this and that. Instead you just stop and say "you're lying." If you had more solid reasons for scumreading me I wouldn't be scumreading you so much.

Satisfaction I still find to be moderately scummy. If you can back up your vote on me, I'll take my vote off you.

weird how arthur claims to move *off* satis after they make a case on them = perspective slip of town!satis scum!arthur or am I reading too much into things
now time to reread satis, I have a gut tr on them because of OP stating they're town

[shellyc]

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

Personally, I find this post is more AI to Arthur than it is Satisfaction. Maybe feels like fishing for an easy wagon. Very weak though. Measuring scummieness versus townieness on a scale from -100 to 100, I'd say I currently put Arthur at -2.

Mundivore, does it make you feel any particular way about Egix96? If so, more or less of an indication than from Arthur?

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

Mundivore, what are your thoughts on this?

Redados, why did you ask Mundivore for input but not Bluebell or Not Known 15 who also hadn't weighed in?

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Egix96, I'd like to hear what you think about what I am seeing as a backpedal by Arthur.

On the off chance that a wild hammer slips in and I don't get the chance to share, here are all of my notes as of right now:

Noraa (Neutral-town feels. Buddying me or teamwork?)
36: Defends me / dismisses suspicion. Reasonable, townish.
92: Presses Not Known when he votes for me with no comment. Townish, hunting.

Mundivore (low participation)
52: Says what I was thinking re: Arthur suspicion. Pings town, but could be mafia pulling a string.

Bluebell --- no substantive contribution by page 3 (but came in late)
84: she's rhyming, which is fun, but not contributing on page 4

Redados (town or smart scum)
44: "practically everything in RVS is NAI" -- agreed
50: presses Mundivore to weigh in on my intro (hunting or performative towniness)
63: direct, succinct answer to my weak probe. No attitude or defensiveness. Pings town.

ArthurConyl (no read, might be noob scum)
35: Weakly agrees with Egix's weak push on me.
40: Backs down quickly when challenged by Noraa. Testing waters or changing mind?
78: Tries to defend himself. Maybe flustered, maybe floundering to cover backpedal. Read meta.
93: Reacts to Not Known's silent E-1 vote on me. Says he is "begging to be scumread." Does not remove his own vote, leaves me at E-1. Pings scum.

Egix96 (SE) (lurking)
33: First non RVS comment of the game + vote. Page 2. Makes weak poke at me. Hunting?
81: Confirms that his initial vote was supposedly serious. Dismisses backpedaling theory in support of Arthur. Mildly pings scum. Read meta.

ClarkBar (SE) --- no substantive contribution by page 4 (working over the weekend)

Not Known 15 (SE) (mild town, need more)
54: Goes out of his way to weigh in on my intro issue without being pressed directly. Pings town.
90: Votes for me based on Artur's pushback. Only quotes, no comment. I think this is town applying pressure. Buuuut claims to not know the vote count. That seems cavalier but not necessarily scummy.

Next game I plan to lie low and at least survive D1.

I’m not going to try to tell you how to play, but I recognize this feeling. Here is the way I see it: townies who win typically win while dead. Your (town) job isn’t to survive, it’s to die a meaningful death. To progress the game state. Buttoning up and being quiet does not help the town. Force people to get on the record. If somebody is going to mislynch you, make them talk about it.

I guess I did kind of tell you how to play. But I mean it more from the perspective of how I am trying to play. Votes on you don’t mean you’re doing something wrong. They don’t even really necessarily mean somebody thinks you are scum at this point in the game. It might not even be about you. All of that to say, don’t get discouraged. Get hunting. We need you.

ok not quoting so thread looks less cluttered

tbh I kinda vibe with the fact that satis might be IIoA (info instead of analysis) since much of their content is prodding people and asking questions
but the readslist was pretty good
and willing to step back and realise satis-arthur may be TvT reads townie
so townlean on this slot

[shellyc]

@Mod help me spoiler that big ugly quote wall if you can please

[shellyc]

"But if I did I'd be pretending" sounds self aware, +3 scumpoints

when have you ever not seen me self-aware? i'm one of the most prolific mafia addicts currently playing onsite, it would be disturbing if i wasn't self-aware.

in 2023 you were open. flexible, spontaneous, i could see your posts made without a second thought

why are you prodding someone after their RANDOM voting stage vote

(as quoted) the vote didn't seem random. it was also a fair while after others' random votes. something about the timing of it felt like a ~decision~ to vote there rather than a whimsical rvs vote.

uh ok but it's not your job to traffic cop fwiw

worsty despite shading clark (me) why do you never vote it? thats straight out weird

it's a gut read. i'm waiting for you to do something scummy. like mount a bad-faith scumcase against someone who's obvtown... or something like that

Town don't wait for people do to something, town is supposed to be *proactive*

this sets off bells, seems like you're trying to fill space up with words and generally flippantly pocketing satisfaction who i think is pretty townie so far

actually i was responding to arthur, who asked for a towncase on satisfaction. of the sati wagon i would not be surprised if we have scum in {arthur,egix} so i'm really interested to see how they will respond to actually being provided with a strong towncase.

i don't really care what sati thinks of me ngl

"idrc about self image" sounds like a very forced townslip tbh

missed this one accidentally:

why do you think nk15 believes a super early E-1

... did you read the post i quoted?
the only way I could describe that vote from NK15 is "righteous". I definitely think he feels like he's caught scum, even though I strongly disagree with his read.

okay can you elaborate on that then

[shellyc]

another big ugly quote wall on redados

Spoiler:

VOTE: BlueBell

I am voting this way because I agree with everything that ClarkBar has posted so far, ever. I'm getting severe townpings from him.

STOP. POCKETING. END OF CONVO

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

Hey, props to the guy being honest about his alignment in his first post!

I am personally of the opinion that practically everything in RVS is NAI. I feel like half of games have someone say something in RVS (whether it's ridiculous or innocuous), some people get in a tiff over it, then eventually everything calms down and it was NAI all along.

RVS IS NOT NAI and this is pretty much on game theory rather than solving so...

VOTE: Noraa

Reason:

OMGUS

voting for me is anti-town

-_________- I voted for u first. ur the OMGUS

That is correct! I *would* be the OMGUS if I hadn't been able to use such great, non-OMGUS logic in order to vote for you.

redados plays like this as town idk why but yeah

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

Mundivore, what are your thoughts on this?

not your job to traffic cop

On the off chance that a wild hammer slips in and I don't get the chance to share, here are all of my notes as of right now:
...

I'm a huge fan of this post. I am liking Satisfaction's play, it seems very pro-town.

mmm "we can still be friends" reads bad
it was an accusation and it was a DAY 1 accusation which is low-key stupid. refrain from doing that please especially when I've said basically nothing to u

Noraa, I think that you're overthinking this.

But I get really pissed when people saying I'm pocketing ^^

If at any point you're friendly to anyone (you in general, not you specifically), someone will make some sort of comment that you are pocketing. Pocketing is not an insult and shouldn't necessarily be seen as AI, frankly. Being polite to someone or agreeing with someone is bound to happen (and should happen) in every mafia game. If you give your thoughts on lots of stuff, eventually you'll disagree with the person you're "pocketing" and everyone will see that you're not trying to buddy up with that person.

awesome. its not AI but it bugs me so much lmao

I agree that it's not AI.

yay someone is vibing with my thoughts

scum is antitown -_________-
doesn't matter what they r doing, their damn existence is antitown

I feel like I'm getting into semantics here but scum can definitely act pro-town or anti-town... in the same way that town can act in a pro-town way or an anti-town way.

you are not a mafia theory professor redados lol

Please explain your reasoning for Arthur as scum.

Sure.

Poking at a behavior in RVS, as Arthur did in posts 35 and 37 is healthy because it moves the game forward. This is pro-town behavior.

In post 40, Arthur backs down completely as soon as his line of thinking is questioned. To me, this reads like noob!scum backing away at the slightest hint of pressure. It's not super AI but worth a look in combination with the rest of Arthur's behavior.

Posts 73 and 78 are totally OMGUS.

(Post 86 was disappointing because I felt like he learned the wrong lesson there.)

I also wasn't a huge fan of #93. NK15 literally quoted Arthur's post as reasoning for their vote and then Arthur jumps on this. This is weird jumpy behavior.

pretty much IIoA post

In general I want to see more from Egix, Not Known, and Bluebell.

not your job to prod people to talk

I'm most interested in elimming one of Arthur and Satisfaction today

I think I've seen two different people say that if one of us is scum, the other probably isn't (or maybe you, twice? I'd have to check). I agree. That said, I'm just as wary that it's town versus town. If so, would that make an elim between us less informative? After that, what's the risk of two miselims in a row once we've locked into this either-or thinking? This is coming from a place of... I don't know. I clearly see him doing weird things, but I don't know if that makes him scum. If I was under a hammer right now you wouldn't hear me screaming, "Get Arthur tomorrow after I flip town!"

This is why I think you're town. Arthur seems to be pushing for your lim in order to save his own skin. I don't get that vibe from you. I think that's alignment-indicative.

kinda see what you're trying to do with arthur? but im thinking arthur is limbait here

redados read on worst here
pedit: I'll address that in another post

[shellyc]

VOTE: shelly this is actually just shelly's scumgame again

I call omgus.

were my walls and walls of quotes and catch up not townie enough?

Nope! Just blatant OMGUS from scumworst here, and obviously trying to get rid of rusty town!me. I can't believe it worsty, let me enjoy feryland instead of limbaiting me

[shellyc]

do you think traffic copping is... asking people to offer thoughts on something?

That + not giving YOUR OWN thoughts

[shellyc]

tbh, I did the immediate worsty push to bait them into bringing up 2023.

2023 direct hostility towards worsty was because worsty's slot was basically USR already. im trying to push you and sort you NOT shade you. there's a fundamental difference

[shellyc]

can you point out the stuff that you claim are AI and you want me to respond to?

[shellyc]

Yeeeah part of the fun of trying to understand Noraa is that I’ve been reading shelly as a byproduct. Put me in, coach.

scum being the rational, agreeable mediator when worstyVme are TvT sounds quite viable.
hmmmmmmmmm

[shellyc]

will look into detail regarding your towncase since i havent dived deep into the intricasies of this game but i can see that you were doing to force arthur to re-evaluate (which is NAI anyways) and i acknowledge this

pedit: thats basically saying "go sort me" which isnt very productive but yes, i will respond to the parts that you Really Want Me To Respond To

[shellyc]

can i have a better explanation on how you got to null -> vote on bluebells?

[shellyc]

incidentally
VOTE: blueb

how did this come along or is this opportunistic wagoning

[shellyc]

-5 townpoints worsty

i get it, making up reasons for reads is pretty hard as scum

you just went from -5 on my scum radar to -10

[shellyc]

also. whats your current read on mundivore?

I dont have the high efforting time yet to read more isos but at first sight that slot is pretty townie

pedit: Why would you vote your nullread when youve clearly stated {arthur, egix} are your SRs

[shellyc]

don't dare scumread me again.

Reveal Innocent Child

[shellyc]

thats a pretty good explanation so i'll give you that. but you're still scum

let me look through blue's ISO real quick

[shellyc]

Here are my notes on your posts:

Redados:
12 fun/fluff
14 fun/fluff
15 fun/fluff
42 calling (someone) out
44 encouraging, educational
45 calling out
47 fun/fluff
49 fun/fluff
50 investigating
59 educational
63 reasoning
67 encouraging
76 educational
77 reasoning, educational
85 encouraging, fun/fluff
87 educational, encouraging
115 reasoning, educational
120 calling out, investigating
122 educational
127 encouraging, educational
129 reasoning, educational
130 fun/fluff
132 educational
133 educational
135 calling out, ed
137 educational, reasoning
139 reasoning, investigating
142 reasoning
144 reasoning
145 reasoning
147 investigating
149 fun/fluff
151 reasoning
154 fun/fluff
172 reasoning, encouraging, calling out
173 investigating, educational
176 reasoning
184 reasoning, educational, calling out
185 reasoning, calling out
187 reasoning, educational

oooh a huge bunch of IIoA. but i think it's not very scum driven to waste time at PBPA

[shellyc]

Arthur: Mafia
--grasping at straws, overly defensive, changing reasons/ excuses, pressure already being applied by others

Satisfaction and Redados: Town --seem to be honestly investigating, demonstrating reasoning, don't seem to be hiding or else are super tricky. Both very encouraging, helpful but of course have me pocketed (can we say that now?) with avatar and posting mechanics help, haha

Clarkbar: ?
--pursuing game as his time permits, encouraging and educational

Egix96: ?
--Vague. Is it due to his self analysis of play style being correct? Vote to apply some pressure.

Mundivore: Town
--Limited info he gives leans toward analysis and mafia hunting

NotKnown15: ?
--Very Vague, ask questions when I can keep up to press for info.

this is a very decent readslist, vibing with my thoughts
rest of blue's iso is fluffposting
so nullish, maybe a slight townlean?

[shellyc]

LAL (lynch all liars).

DAYVIG: the worst

[shellyc]

thats such a good pagetop

[shellyc]

then scumcase me. i dare you to do it

[shellyc]

what if the solve is arthur / worsty and worsty is currently deflecting towards bluebell / me

but thats too easy of a solve

[shellyc]

either you keep confbiasing youself or you're scum.

i think it's the latter.

[shellyc]

Reads
{shelly}
{satisfaction, redados}
{mundivore, NK15, bluebell
{egix, arthur}
{worsty}

[shellyc]

i have reconsidered reads

"less scummy than mundivore" is distancing without a vote
read my comment on post 182

[shellyc]

I have a very Fun Theory.

worst, when did you rep in?

[shellyc]

@Arthur whats your read of ducky now?

It's interesting how many times Arthur calls noraa "slightly scummy" or "anti town" but never votes

pedit: nvm i found it. not related to my fun theory though

[shellyc]

hmmmmmmm

arthur vibes *around* noraa a whole bunch and basically doesn't does much to solve their slot. the SL on them didnt get anywhere

lightbulb moment

[shellyc]

worsty is this silence indicative of strategising in your PT who to bus first

[shellyc]

uh you're transparently posturing a scumteam a couple of hours after replacing in.
this is me being at work and figuring there's little value in discrediting you when people are going to see what you're doing.

lolreadslists Generate Content and Discussion and I like that.

of course nothing's set in stone, I like adjusting reads a lot

egix i am not trying to intentionally misrep anything

[shellyc]

Logical fallacy theory time
If every scumbag wrote X and I wrote X, does not mean I am necessarily a scumbag, as the possibility of non-scumbags writing X is still present.

[shellyc]

@shellyc: I don't know if I see the worst as scum here. He seems to be putting in pretty good effort to solve.

I read a scum!worst game yesterday, he's very good as scum and likes the alignment more

that being said im going to switch my vote to more useful places soon

bluebell voteswitch is interesting, can you elaborate?

[shellyc]

This looks like a complaint coming from scum. "Why am I not townread for all that effort?" instead of attacking the reasons. In fact, I don't see a towny reason for saying this.

you have to know that im overdefensive of myself as either alignment and play worse under pressure

[shellyc]

I feel ignored.

tbh this after mundivore's post is a bit LAMIST-y

[shellyc]

it means that nk15 feels they are ignored because mundivore thinks me + worst are town

[shellyc]

arthur is scummy but we shouldnt do CLATS (confirmed lurker and therefore scum)
lurkers get replaced

satis whats your read on noraaworst

[shellyc]

yay you read games!

also repping out of boredom bans you from joining the queue

I like mundivore for town, but @mundivore do you have any offsite scumgames or anything?

[shellyc]

Noraa's very fence-sitty which is kinda a red flag since they were super fence sitting in their first scumgame 2027

[shellyc]

their ISO is pretty much all fluff no stuff, only a scumread on arthur and not much explanation for it

[shellyc]

worst you have to realise that im probably the worst ever person at obvtowning.

[shellyc]

I want to talk to bluebell now, I feel like there's something *interesting* regarding that slot

[shellyc]

I am entitled to be townread because I am town. end of convo.

pedit: mundivore tr'd me + worst in the post before 360 but then nk15 felt he was ignored in the townreads giveaway so i feel it's LAMIST?
it matters if it's LAMIST because LAMIST is a common scumtell

[shellyc]

for real though we're half way thru D1 in a micro. there's a bit of tension but not a lot. do you think anything you've said is disagreeable enough that I should be trying to pick a fight or is this a more high-level apprehension type thing?

read on White Knighting.

being agreeable is a pretty good way to pocket

pedit: holding back for now but I think blue's been synthesising much of other's content and havent driven the game forwards nor shown much interest in solving

side note why am I getting pedited so much

[shellyc]

LAMIST was a great scumtell back in like 2010. it's now a personality tell, because guess what? some people who are town like to draw attention to the fact that they're town. some people who are scum aren't capable of powering through the game so they like to draw attention to things they've done that look towny.

if you lean into LAMIST as an outright scumtell, you're going to eliminate a lot of players of a certain type, and not of a certain alignment, more often than random. for a bit of fun, I'd challenge you to ask /why/ they're LAMISTing. lmk what you think

they're LAMIST-ing to look naturally townie and for that valuable towncred

[shellyc]

the first time someone said this to me he was scum; I've always remembered that and have definitely stolen this line a few times.

still, fun meta take: you feel more entitled to be townread as scum than you do as town.

can you back that up with anything?

[shellyc]

sure, this is close to the reason I voted her (which I have been over). I think she'd be a fabulous lead wagon~!

I wanna hear from them first when I'll torment their reads

im entitled to a TR because yeah, im terrible at obvtowning as town and buried beneath my scumminess though are townie intentions. I get SR'd as town and TR'd as scum reeeaaally often

I'll kinda dive deeper into that post later when I can actually high effort this after work

[shellyc]

I have been away for 2 days and wow, what a thread. Give me a moment and I'll analyse worst vs shelly. Personally, I feel like scum are laughing at town for descending into chaos ;/

if you think it's TvT, can you give reasoning

why does this feeeeel likeeeee TMI (too much information)?

[shellyc]

Maybe I should be voting to put pressure, but that's not really my playstyle. My vote is permanently on my biggest scumread. While I scumlean Noraa, there are other people to look at.

*SE hat*

your vote should be on the vote that helps town most at all times; sometimes it's voting your biggest SR and sometimes it's not
if we all vote for our biggest SRs, theres a very high chance we won't be able to get a lim in

[shellyc]

who do you think you want to zoom into right now if not worsty?

[shellyc]

arthur's shade on noraa is very weird

they SR noraa slightly but not for very logical reasons? and they arent voting them? which sounds super distance-y

[shellyc]

EBWOP (Edit by Way of Posting) and even if worsty is a townie the shade without a vote seems like encouraging town elimination without being on it if this keeps up

[shellyc]

*SE hat*

DO NOT DISCUSS REPLACEMENTS.

pedit: yes

[shellyc]

@arthur, worst = noraa.

fence-sitting is logical, but why is it not as indicative of scumminess than Mundivore's play to you?

[shellyc]

Didn't you just say our interaction felt town vs town? What made you change your mind on our alignments?

I have a paranoid tendency regarding worsty as well (totally not related to gamblers fallacy), but i feel like recent posting makes an effort to solve

besides, I'm the new clarkbar.

[shellyc]

if you whine about how chaotic town is and not make an effort to change town's organisation or call us out for it how are we going to be more "efficient" though?

pedit: "I feel like scum are laughing at town for descending into chaos"
it feels like you're commenting on both of us bickering at each other and we should stop because it feels like scum are laughing at us = town!worst town!me
which feels like TMI since theres no concrete evidence of our alignments, and I can't really see this being TvT

[shellyc]

who do you think you want to zoom into right now if not worsty?

don't miss this please

like ive noted that you have SR'd satis but where did the read go?

[shellyc]

i hate being policy'd

like me not cooperating is because I have Hot Takes that you might be interested in but im always fine to cooperate

[shellyc]

if you spent as much time trying to sort alignments as you did complaining about "flooding" (short, game related posts for posterity) I don't think we'd have this issue dude. I'm not going to come at you for your slow, insightful posts. I'll make some effort to make longer/less frequent posts. But again, I'm not changing for you and I wouldn't expect you to change for me. I don't see e.g. nk15 complaining about this games pace, and he has a third of your posts. this game is progressing somewhat slowly on average.

I'll respect your need for a slower pace, within reason. Please respect the fact that different people post differently. If you think it's alignment indicative let's talk about it, otherwise let's get back to the game.

if you spent as much time trying to sort alignments as you did complaining about Arthur complaining about flooding I'll be much happier dude.

That being said, bluebell, please come back so I can do some sorting of your slot

[shellyc]

if you spent as much time trying to sort alignments as you did complaining about "flooding" (short, game related posts for posterity) I don't think we'd have this issue dude. I'm not going to come at you for your slow, insightful posts. I'll make some effort to make longer/less frequent posts. But again, I'm not changing for you and I wouldn't expect you to change for me. I don't see e.g. nk15 complaining about this games pace, and he has a third of your posts. this game is progressing somewhat slowly on average.

I'll respect your need for a slower pace, within reason. Please respect the fact that different people post differently. If you think it's alignment indicative let's talk about it, otherwise let's get back to the game.

if you spent as much time trying to sort alignments as you did complaining about Arthur complaining about flooding I'll be much happier dude.

That being said, bluebell, please come back so I can do some sorting of your slot

Second surgery for my struggling sidekick and we both slept seven sweet somniforous hours. An aside, keeping a cone of shame on a capering coney is an impossibility.

Shelly, let's play! Word association day! You first. Only a word or two, more will be cursed. And no repitition, is my petition. After your view, I volunteer to continue.

Arthur.
Bluebell.
Clarkbar=Shelly.
Egix96.
Mundivore.
Noraa=The Worst.
NotKnown15.
Redados.
Satisfaction.

ok this isnt working out because this was posted at 2am my time so guess I'll have to scrap the live interaction part
but you can have my readslist
Town
Clarkbar=Shelly.
Satisfaction.
Redados.
Mundivore.
Egix96.
Bluebell.
NotKnown15.
Arthur.
Noraa=The Worst.
Scum

[shellyc]

This should be explained in more detail(the second part)

anyone who shallow-or-deep metadives me will realise that I like to play in a very aggressive + emotion-over-facts way
like im willing to do anything for the good of town because im town aligned?
we can go deep into town cohesion or Solve the Game

[shellyc]

hidden doublevoters, ffery tricked us

[shellyc]

Like wdym by associations though? You want me to do preflip partner analysis? thats a terrible idea

[shellyc]

mundivore can you explain further your read on satis as they're pretty townie

worsty isnt happening so VOTE: Arthur

bluebells I want a readslist asap

[shellyc]

that's E-1, the fourth vote

someone get arthur to claim

[shellyc]

I think shelly has some interesting insights about potential scum!TW motivations and after reading their interaction twice, TW seems to mostly only have "no u!" as a response. To be fair, I need to go through that part again from TW's perspective.

if you agree with my perspective why are you still TL on worsty though?

ironic how mundivore says arthur isn't happening and here they are at E-1

[shellyc]

Unofficial VC

ArthurConyl (4): Mundivore, Bluebell, Shellyc, Satisfaction
shellyc (2): Not Known 15, the worst
Not Known 15 (1): Egix96

pedit ?????????????????????

[shellyc]

ok I just realised I can't count

[shellyc]

so worsty cant count as well

I was basing this off the last VC which stated mundivore was on arthur and I missed the vote

[shellyc]

as you can see from some of my games I have a horrible record at votecounting which means I should probably never mod lol

ok back to the E-1 thingy: asking someone to claim isn't that AI either tbh, it could be seen as rolefishing but also it's a protown thing to ask for a claim from someone at (real or fake) E-1

pedit: sure double decker works - you think me + arthur are doubledeckering?

[shellyc]

satisfaction how many of my games have you read?

also theres like 0 scum motivation to yell at worst once I replace in

[shellyc]

@redados sheeping the leading wagon in catchup kinda pings

[shellyc]

I can tell you three things about myself satis
1. I play assertively and go into 10 rage 1v1s with people each game
2. I like scum more than town.
3. I like to trust my gut and emotion over logic.

[shellyc]

thats kinda super LAMIST-y.

redados give me your thoughts on worsty and bluebells?

[shellyc]

I'm trying to solve by prodding you to give your thoughts and looking for logical inconsistencies.

Satisfaction, if you think that's changing the subject, that's deflecty.

[shellyc]

satisfaction how many of my games have you read?

btw regarding timestamps - I play in other games on this forum, i don't exclusively play in this game, and i have to post elsewhere as well

[shellyc]

I looked at my posting timestamps and they look like I wait a few minutes in between posts.

Satis thinks im posting in a PT.

[shellyc]

okay that's a good start

my gut TR's redados. my gut scumreads worsty and arthur.

I buy the satis towncase. I kinda TR egix as well

[shellyc]

questioning mark on a lot of the plist looks like scum trying to shade everyone

[shellyc]

worst you're scum or in deep confbias

WHY TF IS BEING QUESTION MARK ON EVERYONE TOWNIE???

[shellyc]

Can you entertain counterfactuals and look in a world which I am town, because I REALLY AM TOWN?

[shellyc]

it's AI because scum need to get miselims on town and therefore need to shade as many people as possible

worst give me a scumgame of yours, i have time to do some Reading

[shellyc]

worsty when did you start SRing arthur and why?

[shellyc]

bluebells do you have any offsite games?
also, if you scumread arthur, who would move to the bottom of your readslist if Arthur flips green?

pedit: concur with that though im not a very mechanical oriented player myself

[shellyc]

read on mundivore considering the fact that they Wanted To Lim Their TR

[shellyc]

im not looking for a "sigh", I am looking for a read.

[shellyc]

worsty why will you not answer my question directly and give a read on mundivore

fine fine here's mine
mundivore gutleans town for efforts to solve and tone reads geniune. this is pretty much a gutread but idrt scum!mundivore does so much solving, they actually try to analyse me vs you when scum can just hang out in the shadows if you're town.

[shellyc]

Scenario for consideration: Noraa->the worst and ClarkBar->shelly is the scum team.

like I have experience with worsty and I like them so why??? in the world??? would I bus them

especially as I know worsty's scumgame is competent

what is scum!me motivation for immediate bussing

[shellyc]

worsty can you stop blatantly pocketing?

guys am I at E-1 now?

[shellyc]

the word "survivalistic mindset" is the word I used to case someone as scum!me in Newbie 2027.

side note: I play very bad under pressureas either alignment.

[shellyc]

worsty can you actually Elaborate why you think Satis paranoia comes from town?

paranoia is NAI by itself

[shellyc]

one is a survivalistic mindset, the other is preoccupied with sorting alignments.

this is the exact move scum!worst does.

place on the Headlines those valuable "solving" they did and get towncred. end of story.

[shellyc]

But yeah she's also scum in this game.

when I flip green can we get worsty tomorrow?

[shellyc]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ok I counted again and me and arthur are both at E-2

[shellyc]

bussing is bad in general especially d1

@worsty do you think arthur + me is the solve aorn

[shellyc]

bluebells do you have any offsite games?
also, if you scumread arthur, who would move to the bottom of your readslist if Arthur flips green?

pedit: concur with that though im not a very mechanical oriented player myself

Nope, I'm a naive newbie. And it depends on the developing discussion.

fence-sitting alert

[shellyc]

idrt worst/arthur is actually a viable pair so hmmmmm

what if it's something like worst/redados

I am pretty sure you're scum.

[shellyc]

ok what if worst is town, satis is town, mundivore is town, I am town

and it's something like bluebell / egix

[shellyc]

im trying to entertain counterfacuals and satis is just being horribly wrong.

[shellyc]

pedit: true, intent to hammer

[shellyc]

cause you're scum and wanna hammer arthur = but this makes arthur town

[shellyc]

@arthur why are you not voting for any of the wagons

[shellyc]

satis can you provide a readslist or something
anyways im ready anytime to claim / self towncase if you need me to

pedit: then stay silent

[shellyc]

im townlean on nk15 for being bold and placing satis at E-1

not a whole lot of posts to go off though

[shellyc]

sigh

[shellyc]

Town: Mundivore & Redados, probably Egix (I've come around on this one based on more recent posts).
Townish: Noraa->TW
Null: Bluebell & Clark->shelly.
Scummy: Not Known & Arthur

how's your arthur read coming along now?

[shellyc]

Satis if you've read my games you'd probably understand that ive become very deep in the scum persona and have forgotten how to play town lol

[shellyc]

now why do you think anti-town behaviour = not scum influenced?

if there is no town motivation for doing something, it DOES NOT COME FROM TOWN.

[shellyc]

idrc about stats, besides im a replacement and stats of scum replacing out are very high from what I know

[shellyc]

Satis is probably caught in confbias.

I kinda start thinking about town!worst now. especially if scum!arthur.

I think arthur is my top SR, followed by bluebells.

[shellyc]

the probability of me being town in this game is 100%

[shellyc]

Satis how many of my games have you read?

fwiw sometimes town are just town, and scum are just scum. wifom isn't really a thing

[shellyc]

This is wrong and you know it’s wrong. People aren’t robots. People don’t play perfect logical games. Of all people, you know this.

you have missed the point so spectacularly

[shellyc]

im interested in how you would read me if you take into account meta and meta only

[shellyc]

good one worsty

[shellyc]

satis misrepping again

[shellyc]

like it's clear im trying to consider counterfactuals especially when rescanning worsty ISO

bluebells FoS is pretty legitimate but I wanna consider that as 1) town trying to push avenues and 2) scum framing someone for a miselim

[shellyc]

if i'm wrong on shelly arthur is scum
if i'm right on shelly sure, arthur is probably still scum
i'm being selfish and shelly is more likely to kill us all and endgame. >:

oh something pinged me again - this is quite postury and preparing for a world where I am flipped green today

[shellyc]

Ok Hot Take: I scumread Egix96 now.
81 is fence-sitting on Arthur’s Alignment
fluffposting until 186 which is mainly prodding people to give their thoughts + IIoA
235 hard defends arthur which is super weird especially if arthur is red
350 CLATS (confirmed lurker and therefore scum) vanity vote on lurker isnt giving any game advancing info?
357 is subtle shade at mundivore whos pretty town so far?

like overall i dont feel like this is a very protown iso and egix has been fallen under the radar
this makes me reconsider worsty tbh
arthur is still scum

[shellyc]

Also another thing that kinda pings me is how worsty pursues bluebell despite egix and bluebell both placed at null in his readslist

im pretty sure there is scum in {worst, arthur, egix}

[shellyc]

bluebell slot comes off as quite geniune to me
mundivore + redados are both pretty solid townies upon reread
arthur just comes off as... slimy. and spat with satis reads TvS. and idk i dont really see much solving happening there but this could easily be LHF (low hanging fruit i.e. elimination bait). Overall scummy slot
egix is now my hot take scumread + interactions with worsty kinda points to partners?
worsty's interactions with me upon my rep-in was kinda omgussy / shading instead of solving me and ive stated why I sus them multiple times
nk15's willingness to be bold and put early E-1 is decently townie - idrt scum just does that
satisfaction's consideration of me + worst still reads townie
fferyllt is lockscum.

[shellyc]

worsty lets talk; whats your read on egix?

[shellyc]

cause I wannnnnnna entertain a world in which you're town and im wrong?

but the more i think the less I see it

[shellyc]

worst isnt even solving me; they're trying to shade me

and they aren't trying to solve egix

[shellyc]

fence-sitting alert

idrt egix is "solving-ish"

[shellyc]

oh my god you're not even pretending to be town are you

^

DIE, MAFIA SCUM!

[shellyc]

Ok I’ve been doing very bad at obvtowning but there we go...

I AM A TOWN JAILKEEPER!!

crumb

J

ust blatant OMGUS from scumworst here,

a

nd obviously trying to get rid of rusty town!me.

I

can't believe it worsty,

l

et me enjoy feryland instead of limbaiting me

does this explain the survivalist mindset?

NAR states that my block goes through if I am killed. if Arthur flips red, I WILL TARGET THE WORST TONIGHT. IF THE KILL DOES NOT HAPPEN, WORST IS SCUM

now bye I go to work

[shellyc]

I kinda rushed to claim it to be fair

shouldn’t have claimed but I was only half awake and woke up seeing the bold E-1 and it made me freak out so I claimed it

[shellyc]

if Arthur flips green I will be targeting in {the worst, egix}. I won’t be saying who as if I hard claim target + 2 scum left, even if I jail scum the partner can make the kill

[shellyc]

hmmmmm

ok fine change of plans: I’ll be protecting whoever I think will be night killed if a green flip commences. Prepare for some mind games, scum.

[shellyc]

worsty your whole reaction to my roleclaim was super... calm. or idk you kinda expected it? maybe you picked up on my crumb.

which is weird but idrt it's that AI

[shellyc]

Also also, why did you say this before?

I like to gutread people
only this time my gut is wrong

pedit: why does my crumb mean nothing when it increases the cred of my claim
also im not getting limmed today, jailkeeper is resolvable by nightphase so lets actually solve, and worsty was interested in my elim clearly by tunnelling me

[shellyc]

I kinda rushed to claim it to be fair

shouldn’t have claimed but I was only half awake and woke up seeing the bold E-1 and it made me freak out so I claimed it

response to 624

[shellyc]

satisfaction powerwolf?

idk how you still want to push it on me
I give you the option to a) unvote because night actions can clearly solve this or b) counterclaim me

[shellyc]

You can’t use your lie as evidence that you haven’t lied.

explain

[shellyc]

SATIS I GIVE YOU 10 SECONDS - COUNTERCLAIM OR GET BACK TO SOLVING THE GAME

[shellyc]

it occurred to me as well but i still think he reads sincere, just like, mind mendingly confbiased. if he doesn't have any other reads his alignment will get really obvious when one/both of us flip, assuming we're t/t.

hmmmmm

like it occured to me that scum can just stfu and nightkill me theres no need to shade me

[shellyc]

satis if you don't CC you think the setup is B1 (tracker + TFN) which is the only setup that i dont get cc'd immediately? and you still stand by your solve? which is wrong?

[shellyc]

fluffposting alert

satisfactions sudden silence is concerning

[shellyc]

thats why I was considering egix

satis what is your read on egix

[shellyc]

im fine with worsty as well, ive stated my limpool a lot of times

death tunnelling the solve as me/worsty is wrong and does not get us anywhere. you're wrong on me

[shellyc]

Is it?

PT slip??

what does this refer to

[shellyc]

pedit: please don't elim me, that's uncool.

Shelly dayvigs worsty

request granted

[shellyc]

omg is that a pt slip and the solve is worst + satisfaction

*holds breath*

[shellyc]

*holds breath*

where did worst and satis go
wait
is that REALLY A PT SLIP?????????

[shellyc]

Satisfaction can you answer these questions
1) will you counterclaim me
2) If not, what is your read on egix?
3) what is your read on the bluebells slot?

[shellyc]

Is it?

is it what

I asked what your read on egix was
idk how that answers the question

[shellyc]

VOTE: Satisfaction

idk why this slot became a UTR after being at e-1 early game

[shellyc]

shading me AFTER the claim + possible PT slip

look at the logical progression when they scum read me like what, 30 mins after they TR’d me in 437

[shellyc]

can you just counterclaim me now so I can consider you lockscum

[shellyc]

Can you answer my questions above if you’re town?

and im not even role hunting, because if town!you who isn’t a role that conflicts with my role, it’s illogical to shade me

[shellyc]

that’s hammer

Arthur, were you town?

[shellyc]

What possible scum motivation would there be for me to knowingly harass the real jail keeper.

to make this post

[shellyc]

hmmmmmmmm

im mulling over this
661 says you knew I was the real JK, yet you knowingly tunnel me which is anti-town after all

why would you even do that. I cant figure out a town motivation to do that really. did ffery prank us and add a jester

[shellyc]

sad that the mod ruined it and we cant bait out the reaction from Arthur

The Voices of my Gut are saying pushing an inactive slot d1 isn’t the best approach

but still we have to get an elimination in,

intent to hammer

[shellyc]

bah!

[shellyc]

gg redados

think your scumrange is wider than i ever thought!
one of the reasons i claimed was that I spotted a pr tell from satis so was convinced there was another or (scum got that as well)

[shellyc]

Well I did mostly just cuz she tunneled my slot which I knew was vt

eh

I think I can see scum!the worst playing like this

[shellyc]

After shelly died I basically stopped keeping up with the game. I came back a long time later and actually started SRing Redados which is interesting considering I generally have trash SRs

I was always paranoid about redados in my solves

i didn't expect redados scumrange to post like that, this is actually rather identical to their towngame

[shellyc]

I know that this won't be a great ah ha to Mundivore and Egix96, who were the townies invited to the elimination-or-lose table on day 4, but it's something for everyone to consider in future games. Unless town PRs do great things in the night, the mafia team gets a fair bit of control who they bring to the final day of the game.

If you're at that table as town, then probably the most important thing you can do is understand why you're there.

The main reason you are there is because 1) mafia think you are likely to vote the other town player or 2) mafia think you will be voted by the other town player or 3) both.

So, think about where your reads have been leading you in terms of who you think is the mafia team. And try to come to that table with fresh eyes. Reread the game. Look carefully at all living players. Look at interactions with flipped mafia (if available). Look at interactions with flipped town. Look at votes. Look at how those votes came about -- what were the player's reads progressions (ahem...trajectory). Did they make sense? Were they internally consistent? etc.

You can do all of that and still wind up with the wrong answer in the end, but at least knowing why you're at that table can help do a reset and recalibrate!

I thought that Mundivore and Egix96 tried to do that during the last game day. Redados played a super clean game as mafia and it paid off for him.

lylo (or xylo or whatever you decide to call it) is this huge catharsis that you end up doing something that decides the game as town as it takes one wrong vote to lose the whole game, and for scum its basically waiting for THE victory moment. (I've only played out scum lylos though given my inability to roll town.)
imo, losing to scum that you expected all along feels worse than losing to scum that you didn't expect to be scum, so towns often don't re-evaluate in lylo and end up losing. i think with re-evaluation paranoid gets in which makes everything really wifomy towards the end so there's a balance in rethinking the game in lylo.

[shellyc]

as an aside - I'm glad to hear I was scary! I like to think that as long as I'm scaring newbies, I'm doing something right... Or maybe that's just my Hallowe'en spirit speaking... I digress - very much looking forward to playing with you again, too.

classic worsty scaring newbies off MS, how intriguing

[shellyc]

As a player, I am better at town than at scum by a long shot, and playing multiple games as scum is really tough for me. Lots of players enjoy their scum games, but being scum frequently can be tiring, even so!

is it just me or is town much more tiring than scum
as scum you already know the answers and its more gamestate manipulation than anything